636: "Through the Valley" (The Last of Us S2E2) Listener Feedback

[00:00:37] Hey Zedheads, welcome to the podcast, I'm Jason. And I'm Lucy. And I'm Ben. And this is The Cast of Us episode 636. And this episode we're going through your feedback for The Last of Us season 2 episode 2 Through the Valley in which nothing happens. Nope, it's just a nice stroll through the valley with some Zeds. Chill times. And this is the least amount of feedback I have ever seen for an episode. Definitely, we've got like two comments.

[00:01:07] If you look at the length of this podcast on your player you'll see that we're lying. But first off I just want to say welcome back Lucy, very good to have you back. I know people have missed you. Aw, that's really nice. I've been getting comments. I left all those out but they're coming. No, I'm just kidding. It's funny because people, when people had left feedback for last week it was like, I'm

[00:01:29] going to be like, hey Jason, Lucy and the rest.

[00:02:18] I'm going to be like, hey, this is the last of us fans who just come in for this show. I think I am emotionally not the same as other people because I found it to be quite a mid-episode. And I actually called Jason on Monday and suggested that I not come on. Not because like it was sad. Like it was sad.

[00:02:47] But two things impacted that decision. One was that I had essentially been spoiled just by ambient stuff. Not from you guys, but from like the discourse. Like people being like, ah, wait till season two is going to break your heart. And I'm like, well there's only two characters. So like there's one of two ways this could go. And I don't mean that to sound like if you didn't see this coming, you're all dumb because you're not at all. It was just, I was primed. I was so primed to not be spoiled that I got really paranoid about it.

[00:03:16] And the other reason was I love you guys so much and I know how much this game and this show mean to you all. And I really enjoy podcasting on it as well. But I thought if I'm just going to sit in the room and be a fucking bummer and just be like, well, I didn't think it was that sad actually. I just thought no one needs or wants to hear that. So I took a step back and I'm really glad I did because I loved listening to your coverage of it and it made me appreciate the episode more. So it was a good call. My response to that when you said that was, no, no, no.

[00:03:46] We want a lot of different opinions. And I'm sure some people in the audience agree and it's good for them to connect. And then you're like, yeah, but I don't know, man. I don't want to be a bummer. And as you were talking about it, I was like, yeah, maybe you're right. Right. Lucy would have come on and been like, I think Joel deserved to die. I mean, I felt that way myself. That's why we stopped covering Fear the Walking Dead because I didn't want to bum out the fans and we just put behind the paywall for anyone who wanted to hear us rant about it.

[00:04:15] So I get it. But I hope you find a lot to dig into the rest of the season because I wouldn't want to have this podcast without you. There's so much in the season that I've loved so far, particularly Catherine O'Hara. I think she's wonderful. And I thought the episode itself was very well done. But I think I'm also glad it's happened now because I think you guys spoke about this really well on the coverage that you did. If they dragged this out any longer.

[00:04:42] I mean, Peter said to me, he was like, this is the problem with a show being made of a 10 and five year old game. It's like you can't avoid it. It's like Ned Stark all over again. The spoilers are out there. So I think Ned Stark. No, I'm just kidding. So that you're wondering how we got here. Yeah. So I know I'm glad the episode happened. I will. I'm glad to be on talking about it today, but I didn't want to be the person in the room not understanding why everyone else was so bummed out.

[00:05:11] I thought everyone's performances were great. It was a solid episode, but I thought I can't do this justice. So that's why I'm here instead of there and I'm looking forward to covering the rest of the season as well. Nice. I'm just picturing Ned Stark severed head saying, so I bet you're wondering how we got here. That would be an amazing fan of Game of Thrones. It all started back. And it's got that song you always hear. I can't remember what it is, but the song that you always hear in the background with that. All right.

[00:05:41] Let's get into the feedback. Lucy? Lucy? Well, I mean, I'm just going to come off as such a callous person now because the first one is from our friend Gemma Hall who just says sobbing. And I know Gemma was really feeling it this week. So sending love despite the fact that I'm apparently emotionally bereft. I mean, we were all feeling except for Lucy. All of us. It was just like really hard. I'm the one that said during the coverage having played the game twice and just recently replayed it that the show hurt worse. Yeah, I know.

[00:06:11] I'm just like, oh, okay. I feel like in Parks and Rec when Ben doesn't understand little Sebastian, I'm just like, I don't get it. That is such a good comparison. I love it. I'm like, yeah, don't get it. So Gemma was sobbing. Let's start there. What's up with this pony? It's not a pony. It's a mini horse. It's a miniature horse. Next one comes from Laura Linton. And she just simply says, I am not okay. Hair Gunner says, thanks.

[00:06:41] I hate it. With a crying emoji. Carrie Lotus says, Brill, I'm not okay. Joel. Joel. Sam Lowe says, I am unhappy and out of Kleenex. Broken heart emoji. I wonder if Sam knew this was going to happen. I'm not sure I get the feeling not, but I'm actually, I'm actually surprised. Cause I fall down these wells of watching reaction videos on YouTube. And I've been watching them now of this episode.

[00:07:11] There are quite a few people that have been able to avoid this point. Oh, I know. And as we go through the comments, you'll see that. And like I said, last week, I was, I mean, last episode, I'm really happy about that. I think it's great. It's my turn, right? Yes. May Almardini says, what the fuck? That escalated quickly. Erica and Furter says, I was really hoping they weren't going to do it. Jean Gorder says, I had no idea any of this was coming. Holy cow.

[00:07:42] Erica's saying they were really hoping they weren't going to do it. I, uh, yeah, I wondered a little bit. I thought, nah, there's no way. Right. But there was that little doubt in the back of my mind. Are they really going to do it? And they've totally did. Daniel Cantu said, that was an amazing episode. 10 out of 10 all around. Uh, Johnny Storer says, is it just me or anyone else feel like playing golf? Oh, geez.

[00:08:12] That's wrong. Uh, Becky Anderson says, no, I had no idea that was coming. Heartbreaking. I mean, one thing that I'm really glad to see is that there are very few in here who are saying, why did they do that? I'm done watching. And that's a valid response. I mean, that's what a lot of people thought after Glenn and Abraham, you know, they just quit The Walking Dead after that.

[00:08:41] And I don't blame anyone who's just like, no, I don't want to watch this. But, um, but I, I don't want that. Like, I'm glad when, when, uh, people are like, oh my God, this is so heartbreaking. I'm so sad, but I want to see what happens next. You know, that makes me feel good. I'm guilty of it. I did it for fear of The Walking Dead when they killed off Garrett Dillahunt's character. I stopped watching from that point. I emotionally stopped way before that. I emotionally. I feel like with fear it was fair. Yeah.

[00:09:10] Amber Lovo says, I'm crying and can't stop. I knew it was coming, but that doesn't make it any easier. Shanna Shanna says, gah, so brutal and heartbreaking for everyone on all sides. Such raw pain from Bella Ramsey shook. She was good. I was so impressed with her. They're everyone, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Their performance was just like everybody in that scene. Yeah. I said that during the coverage, everybody in that scene just pulled it together. It was crazy.

[00:09:40] Even though Pedro just had to lay there. Totally. Yeah. If you ask me, he was fun and he was by in there. Like, come on. Deanna Ireland Gill says, amazing episode. What a great adaptation. Nonstop action and heart. I'm so impressed with this show. I feel that. That's very well written. Jeff Holtorf says, no spoilers here. Never played the game, but surprised and shocked from episode two. Not sure how I feel about it going forward.

[00:10:08] So there's one who's not too sure, but it sounds like you're going to keep watching. So we'll be interested to hear from you later on. Andrea Abarka says, I'm not a gamer, but I had heard the spoilers. I was still not ready. Bella's acting was heart-wrenching. Just heartbroken. I'm going to, we're going to pepper in some calls. Here's Jason from Fort Worth. Hey, podcastica family. This is Jason from Fort Worth, Texas.

[00:10:35] And man, I, I, this is the first time I'm leaving you guys a message for the last of us. I think the reason is pretty obvious. So I am not a game player. I have never played the game and I had zero spoilers of any part of the game or the show. So here I am, you know, minding my own business, watching season two, excited. And then all of a sudden, episode two. What the hell?

[00:11:03] I, I was in such disbelief that it took me listening to the podcast to actually realize that he's actually dead. Wow. Even after that brutal beating, the stab to the neck and him wrapped up, getting dragged by horses. Somewhere in my mind, I was like, nah, somehow he's going to survive this. Or I don't know.

[00:11:31] I mean, I just, it was total disbelief, total shock. And literally I pushed play and I heard you guys talking about like, man, I wonder how people are going to respond to this. We were waiting for this moment. And I was like, nah, it really is true. They really killed Joel. Stages of grief. I cannot believe it. And what a, it's heartbreaking. I mean, I'm devastated, but I'm in because I don't think they could have written a better episode. That was perfect.

[00:11:58] I was, me, I was perfectly set up through the whole thing. I missed all the little Easter eggs or even little things that might even hint towards him dying. It was just a beautiful setup from him stumbling on and actually saving Abby. Maybe. And then her still going through with the plan. I was thinking like, maybe that'll soften her heart a little bit. Nah, she's cold. I hated her from last week. I mean, straight up. I was like, I hate her. I can't wait till she dies.

[00:12:25] And then, man, now I really hate her, man. And I agree with you guys. I mean, Joel did what he had to do to save Ellie. And I don't care. I mean, even if, I mean, the only way it would have been wrong for Joel, what he did was if Ellie knew, gave consent, and then he still killed all the people. But nah, man, I can't wait to see Abby get hers, man. And I don't, I'm going to avoid spoilers. Man, she better get hers.

[00:12:54] Anyway, it was a great episode and a great podcast episode, too. Thank you guys for all you do. I'm devastated. I'm heartbroken. But I'm here. I ain't leaving. Thanks for all you guys do. Peace. That was awesome. Jason, you've got great energy. You should podcast, man. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. That's why we wanted to put him first, because he had some really good energy on that one. And I, you and I are on the same page about Joel. Like, if Ellie had given consent, then it would be a different, whole different story. But she didn't. Yeah.

[00:13:24] Yeah. I still think that doesn't make Abby wrong, though. I think it makes her wrong. I'm like, no, I don't think that. I don't think, I think both can be true. I think both can be true. You're on board with the torture. Yeah. It wasn't that bad. It was fine. I've definitely seen worse in the last, like, three shows that I've watched. So, yeah.

[00:13:49] I think if you lose someone you love at a formative age in a way that to you seems senseless and violent, it can fuck you up. Yeah. Just beat them to death with a golf club and then stab them. It's fine. Make it slow, though. It's not fine. Put the tourniquet on there. I go back to the point I made during the episode coverage. Had Joel just cleared up loose ends, this would have never happened. Yeah. If it would have killed the nurses, it would have been fine. If only Joel had done more.

[00:14:19] Right? If I see where you're coming from and if Abby had come in there and just put Joel down, you know, shot him in the head, that would be one thing. But she made it hurt. Yeah, but she's had five years to sit with that. Yeah. And cool the fuck off. That's not how it works, though. It's not how it works. No, I mean, she does remind me of Rick from White Lotus who just can't seem to get over it. Yeah. The wolf you feed, man.

[00:14:49] The wolf. The wolf. Yeah, she fed that wolf. She fucking feasted that wolf. She was like three meals a day. I'm not. She is not right. There is not a part of me that is like she is right. But I know I'm surprised by how few people are like, I can't even begin to think about how she like. I'm surprised by how many people are like, nah, she's just straight up evil. I'm like, no, I'm not saying that.

[00:15:15] But well, it does make a difference to me that she made him suffer. That makes a difference to me for sure. Well, I mean, Lucy, your opinion does like it's not alone because our next piece of feedback is from Lani Gilbert. And she says, rest in peace, Joel. But if we're being honest, you can't be angry at Abby. She avenged her father. And now Ellie is going to avenge him or avenge her. That's my pseudonym. No, I'm joking. That is a real person.

[00:15:46] Jennifer Ringham says, I didn't know. Cry emoji, cry emoji. I was completely shocked and kept waiting for him to escape last second. Ned Stark all over again. There's the Ned Stark reference. To more crying emojis. He's such a cultural like totem for this. Lisa Spurr says, having never played the game, I was not expecting that. I am shocked and gutted. I will miss the eye candy too. Amazing episode though. Even Abby said he was handsome. Yeah, I know. Abby knew what was up.

[00:16:17] Angie Hill Reynolds. My heart hurts. Crying emoji. I avoided all spoilers. I knew something bad was coming, but damn it. However, the infected were awesome. That's what the showrunners were counting on. Like at least if they're really upset, at least they'll dig this part. Tracy Haig says, I'm sorry, but I'm done with this show.

[00:16:42] They actually made it even more graphic and heartbreaking in the show than it was in the video game. Three crying emojis. Oh, Tracy. Actually, you know what's interesting is I read a thing about how they were saying they were really talking about how much of it to show. And they decided to pull back and show less than they did in the game because of the different medium. It plays differently.

[00:17:07] But I think it still could have, like Ben said, read as more heartbreaking, even though they actually didn't show it as graphically. And I kind of, yeah, I agree more with what you said too, Jason, about how they showed less. Because as somebody who just replayed that scene recently, it's more gruesome in the game. I mean, when you look at the shotgun. They're showing her punching him, but they're not showing her fist hitting his face. That's one example.

[00:17:32] And not only that, but if you look at Joel's shotgun wound to the knee in the game, there's the only option for that is amputation. Because it's that bad in the game. Yeah. Yeah. And they said they didn't want it to be gratuitous, but they also didn't want to feel like they were pulling back from it too much. So they had to find that line. But I wouldn't be surprised if everybody in this industry has learned a lesson from seeing Glenn's eyeball pop out of his head. You know? Like, let's not do that.

[00:18:02] That was too far. Steven Yeun and Pedro Pascal did Actors on Actors. Yeah. Yeah. It's really cool. I watched a bit of it the other day. And I was like, oh, and that's something else for them to bond over now. There's some good photos of them together too. Yeah. And I'll just say to Tracy, like, stick with it. Don't give up on it. Yeah. I hope you're hearing this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jennifer Ringham says, I kept thinking of the people in the basements as the buildings burned. So much horror in this episode. It was devastatingly beautiful. Well done.

[00:18:31] And I actually enjoyed the stuff in Jackson as well. I thought that was pretty cool. Yeah. And when that happened, I was thinking of, I thought of Game of Thrones so much during this episode. And in that one, I was thinking of the long night when you saw Tyrion and everybody in the quiet basement just waiting, you know, trying to wait it all out. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.

[00:18:54] I don't know why, but it made me think of the third Matrix movie where they're all in the caves while they're all taking on, like, Scion. All the machines are coming and invading Scion. It's just, like, waiting it out, hoping you're going to be okay. Yeah. Chantel Giles says, Joel, why do I get the ones with, like, the long drawn-out ones? No. I'm crying. And Ellie, poor Ellie. Truly incredible episode.

[00:19:22] Fast-paced and utterly devastating. Really need to hear your opinions on this one, Jason. ASAP. Me? Oh, thanks. I thought it was awesome. You delivered. Lisa Edmondson Walker says, the hordes were terrifying and watching Jackson fall was overwhelming. That, yeah, I've heard that sentiment. I think that's what Eric was saying about his wife. I haven't played the game and I was not prepared at all for the entire lodge horror. I'm heartbroken.

[00:19:53] Jess Jones says, guys, that last episode fucked me up so bad that I've only been able to re-watch Friends episodes ever since I saw it Monday night after work. Not Joel! No! Fuckity fuck! Fuck! Fuck! That was a good one. Yes, yeah, that was good. Janine Gee says, OMG, I am devastated. I knew it was coming, but not so early in the season.

[00:20:20] I don't even want to continue the show to avoid seeing Abby and her mission, or and her minions. She had five years to move on with her life. That hate puts a target on everyone's back. And here's a call from, I think you say, Hattlveig from Iceland. First time caller. Yeah. Hello, my name is Hattlveig and I'm from Iceland. I'm a new listener to you guys. Found you when you were doing the White Lotus podcast, which I really enjoyed.

[00:20:48] So I started to look if you were doing anything for The Last of Us. Really enjoying it. Awesome. So, one insight I had from the last episode. When me and my husband were watching, when the bloater came and Tommy decides to plane throw him, what we were thinking is, oh my god, the smell must have been amazing. I mean, flambéed mushrooms are just really good.

[00:21:18] So, you should have thrown maybe some garlic on there sometime. Maybe a couple of sticks of butter would have been lovely. And, you know, I know they can't really eat them because then they get affected. But at least, you know, while you're dying, the smell is, you know, could have been amazing. So, that's what I would do if I found a bloater somewhere roaming around my garden.

[00:21:48] So, that was my thoughts. Really enjoy you guys. Thanks. Okay, bye-bye. That's hilarious. What's going on in Iceland? That's what I want to know. Iceland's fucking prepared, man. Be the what's up. That's amazing. And if you're not already watching Yellow Jackets, I highly recommend you check out that show. We also have a podcast about that. I think you're going to like it. I can't stop thinking about how great Jackson might smell now after everything. Love mushrooms. Making me hungry.

[00:22:18] A little bit of butter. That very much reminds me of a scene right out of Yellow Jackets. So, I'm serious. I hope you take me up on that and go watch it. Adam Buckley says, wow, what an episode. To start, I never played the game, so I had no clues. The horde attack was done so well. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. And then what happened to Joel, I was stunned. I was like, hang on. Did that happen? Yep. Whoa.

[00:22:44] Simon Graham says, didn't know that was coming as haven't played the game and have avoided any spoilers despite being an older gamer. Fabulous episode. Amazing cinematography at times. Will be interesting to see how the series progresses now. Gave me Game of Thrones slash The Walking Dead vibes. Well, you've come to the right place. That's for certain. Gijo Puthia says, I'm stunned. Best television I've seen this year. So epic. Ellie and Abby in a crash course. Wow. Rest in peace, Joel.

[00:23:14] I did not see that coming at all. I thought it may happen, but later in the season, the unresolved emotion is going to make the eventual clash with Abby terrifying. Can't wait. Oh, I just, we don't see Abby again after this. Just wanted to let you know. One and done. Yep. I was literally just going to say one and done. That's hilarious. Alma Contreras says, Holy cow. What an intense episode. Ooh, we, I can almost hear her saying that. Abby was ruthless.

[00:23:43] Why was I not expecting it to be so easy or soon for Abby to get Joel? Joel. Joel. No, I'm utterly destroyed right now. That is all. I didn't think it would be that soon either. Michelle Forbes says, I was really dreading the big bad thing and hope they could have come up with a different storyline for the show. But here we are. As much as I was dreading it, I'm here for it now. And Jackson fighting off that horde was amazing. Tommy fighting that bloater had me on the edge of my seat. Yeah.

[00:24:12] I loved all the bloater stuff. But one thing I forgot to say when we podcasted was at times it did give me a bit toxic Avenger vibes. Big rubbery guy running around. Oh, got it. It was good though. It was good. Annette Reynolds Wilson. Holy shit. What an episode. What a brutal death for someone we loved so much. And the fact that Ellie watched him die had me in tears. They had no resolution in the relationship, but he died loving her and she knew it.

[00:24:41] Oh, my heart hurts. On the other hand, love the hordes of infected. It was awesome. We're a bunch of sickos, aren't we? On this show. We're all like, oh, my heart. Oh, it was so sad. I hate that Joel died. Yeah, but all these infected. Great. Basically corpses running around. It's so cool. I love it. And I include myself in that sickos comment. For sure. I'm telling you, if the world ever comes down to a zombie apocalypse or an infected apocalypse

[00:25:11] or whatever, we're screwed because we're just going to sit and watch it all thinking it's cool. Yeah, we're going to be analyzing it. Yeah. Because that will happen. We'll be terrified and heartbroken, but there's going to be at least a moment where we're like, this is really cool though, in a way. Everything I dreamed of has come. I can't believe this is happening. Because I probably told this on the podcast before, but when I had the worst food poisoning I've ever had and it was just not pretty at all.

[00:25:40] And I stumbled across the room and looked into the mirror and I was like, I look like a zombie. Cool. That's so cool. All right. Jeff Allen says, this was what Game of Thrones season eight, episode three. That was the long night episode. Would have looked like if the show had had showrunners that actually gave a shit. Oh, shots fired. As for Joel. Well, I do. I mean, can you imagine working on that show, putting your heart and soul into it? And this is what you get.

[00:26:10] Shots fired, but they won't hear it because they had left by that point. Yeah. I was going to say, I'm like, can you imagine working on the show and put your heart and soul into it? No. No. I can't imagine that. Come on. That episode was amazing, but it was hard to see. As for Joel. Well, I knew it was coming from playing the game. And despite that, I found myself crying too hard to see the screen. That scene couldn't have been done any better. Hands down. One of the greatest hours of television I've ever seen. Thanks, Jeff.

[00:26:36] Tracy Howell says, I've never played the game, so I was totally blindsided by this episode. I kept thinking Ellie was going to save him or Abby would leave him for dead. Even after she stabbed Joel, I was like, he's going to be all right. I'm in such denial and kept saying, it's only episode two. How can they kill off Joel? I'm heartbroken. I can't wait to see how Ellie takes her down. I think we may well see that, Tracy. I will be interested too. Like, I get it because like I was saying last time, we're now used to shows killing people off.

[00:27:05] The Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, but we're not used to a show that is basically about two people and then killing one of them off. That was unexpected. I mean, the whole description of the show on HBO Max is the two of them. And now you have to rewrite the description of the show. Yeah. It's kind of got to change. Yeah. All right. Here's a call from Archmaester Renny. Renny. Woo!

[00:27:33] So I just watched the episode and this is my raw reaction. At the end of season one, I got spoiled about what happened in the second game and that Joel got killed by this new character, Abby. And I kind of figured, okay, that's going to happen at some point in the season and it'll

[00:27:57] probably happen in season seven, the last episode of season two. And then we'll be without him in season three because that seemed like a natural break point without knowing anything more about the plot of this season. So I was really, really surprised that it happened in this episode so early in the season.

[00:28:22] And for most of the episode in the attack on Jackson, I was worried for Tommy. I wasn't really worried for Joel. And then it was just, it played out in such a way that was even more impactful than I anticipated that it would be. And now we've set off this cycle of vengeance and I'm just reflecting about how, you know,

[00:28:51] in the mushroom zombie apocalypse, the most dramatic thing that can happen is conflict between uninfected humans and this cycle of vengeance. Wow. This is maybe going to become my favorite TV show ever, I think. So impressed. So depressed.

[00:29:20] So respectful of the storytellers and the story that they're telling here. Wow. That's great. Great, great raw reaction. That's quite the compliment. And I think that was probably the point was for people who didn't know what was going to happen already. People who, gamers who hadn't seen anything. I think that was a clever diversion to maybe make you think that something was going to happen to Tommy when it was in essence going to happen to Joel. Yeah.

[00:29:49] And it kind of throws you for the loop. Yeah. I can absolutely see that for sure. Continuing on. Lily Finkel. I'm not a game player, but I was spoiled on what would happen this episode with Joel, which made it a teeny bit easier. I'm frustrated. Joel never said anything though. I know Jason is probably happy because it wasn't over because it wasn't over explained and it probably wouldn't have changed anything. But I wanted to yell at my TV to say something about how he was saving Ellie. Great episode.

[00:30:18] The zombies are so creepy. Excited for this season. Well, there's a line there because yeah, sometimes like I'm always talking about how people over explain things that it bothers me because people don't really talk that way. But on the other side of that coin is a lot of times in TV shows, especially like lost had this problem a lot. People don't say things that they absolutely would say. They don't share information and you think, come on. And they built the story around people not having the information that totally should have been shared.

[00:30:47] And I think it's a little bit like that here. You'd think that Joel might say, I was saving. She was going to kill my daughter here. You know, he's going to kill my daughter. At least say that. But I think probably, well, if you want to sort of explain why Joel didn't say that, he just knew like, it doesn't matter what I say right now. I can see nothing he said was changing her mind. He's going to do anything. And I just want to get this over with, you know, I think he knew that. And he was right.

[00:31:15] Like, even if he had said that, it wouldn't have made a difference. I mean, even in that moment when he says, well, you just shut the fuck up and do it already. He knew, like he knew there was nothing changing Abby's mind. Nothing to be done. Yeah. Erica Price says, as a non-gamer, I was not expecting or ready in the least to say goodbye to Joel. It's a testament to his portrayal and talent that we're all gutted. Except for Lucy. Not much else to add. Just kidding. Not much else to add.

[00:31:44] I can't figure out how they went from four horses to two. It shows Abby's group leaving on foot. So where the hell is shimmer and why put two people on one and also tether Joel's body to it? Maybe that was a stronger one. Yeah. Sorry to nitpick, but it's bugging me. Loving your insightful coverage. Someone else asked about that too. And I don't know. I didn't even really pay attention to that. Yeah. But that's a good point. Yeah. I don't know. They should have had two, four horses going back. I don't know. Yeah. The horses are just chilling with me.

[00:32:14] Not caring. Drinking. Watching TV. Having a good day. Not giving a shit about Joel's death. Yeah. Shimmer is here right now. She's having a great time. Oh my goodness. Matthew Rimmer says, well, I was not expecting that. I didn't rush to the episode this week because the season premiere was fine, but didn't spark much excitement for me, but the horde attack got me engaged. Even if some of the lucky escapes were credibility stretching, it was epic.

[00:32:43] And what I was wanting to kick this season into gear. And then the events in the cabin, blimey, I was not expecting that. Somehow, despite my delay in watching and it presumably coming from the game, I remain spoiler free. Bold move. Nice one, Matthew. Keir Hinson. Having never played the game, this episode left me emotionally shook. I almost fell off my treadmill a few times and was left muttering, that just can't happen over and over by the end.

[00:33:13] The consequences of Joel's actions last season are likely the tsunami that had washed over him and threatens to pull Ellie out to sea. I'm afraid of who else. That was a great analogy, by the way. I am afraid of who else will be consumed in its wake. Vengeance begets vengeance and nothing good will come of this. But I can't wait to see it all unfold. That's great. But did you really almost fall off your treadmill? I can't get that picture out of my head.

[00:33:41] I wonder how many people almost fell off their treadmills right at that moment. I almost fell off the elliptical. Keir, I'm glad to hear from you. I haven't heard from you in a while. Maria Lawson says, no, no, no, no, no. I never played the game, so I had zero clue this was coming, especially so soon in the season. Yeah. Right. I can't even enjoy how amazing the battle at Jackson Hole was because I'm at a loss for words at the loss of Joel.

[00:34:10] On second watch, one thing that bugs me, where did the other two horses go? There are four horses at the lodge by the time Jesse gets there, but only two and Jesse, Ellie and Dina are traveling back to Jackson Hole. I thought maybe Abby's group took them, but nope. When we see them after that, they're on foot. Your guess is as good as mine. They're at Lucy's place. They're here. Chilling with me. It's all good. Having drinks. Having drinks. Yep. If you look peeing, you're coming in. All right. Here's a call from Gloria.

[00:34:41] Hello, Last of Us ladies and Jason. Oh. She'd written it to apologize that she was thinking about, I think, Handmaid's Tale podcast last week she said that or something. I'm just one of the ladies. It's fine. This is for Last of Us season two, episode two. Watched several times, cried my hat out each time, still in shock. Even though I'm not a gamer, I knew what was going to happen and it was still wicked hard to watch.

[00:35:10] I'm sure there'll be flashbacks, but we had better get Joel in every episode via flashback. Oh my God. Yes, I can't believe it. Tommy is going to be beside himself. So cool watching him take that bloater down with the flamethrower though. Very brave man. That thing is so hot to kill. It wasn't enough that we had to watch Pedro get killed in Game of Thrones, but now this.

[00:35:39] How dare you, Craig Mazin and Neil Druckmann, you evil geniuses. Caitlin Deva? Superb performance. All of them, really. I don't know how you gamers got through that Abby versus the fence of infected scene. How did you not have panic attack after panic attack? Or maybe you did. Oh my goodness. The show continues to be so impressive.

[00:36:04] An epic battle, the horrific violence, and the beauty of the horizon all together. I just don't have any more words. See you guys next week. Don't get infected. Oh my God. It's a nutshell. Oh honey, I heard your cat's okay. She's like, why are you talking to? I'm hungry.

[00:36:29] I was going to say, as somebody who has multiple cats, that's literally just trying to get her attention. That's all it is. The cat is fine. Teresa Harper says, OMG, best thing I've ever watched. I'm not sleeping for a week after that episode. Wow. RIP Joel. I have a suspicion they just set Tommy up to be the new main character. I'm good with that, although I will miss Joel. But man, did they replicate the game this episode. I was blown away.

[00:36:57] I'm talking even down to the way Abby Huffed went out in the cold. It sounded just like she sounds in the game. Eugene's 7-Eleven pothouse, epic. I could go on and on about the similarities. I'm super excited to watch episode three. This episode was so freaking good. Amazing. Makes me curious. Lucy, what did you think about the bong mask? I loved it. That was hilarious. I was like, I mean, you would, wouldn't you? Brilliant.

[00:37:25] Yeah, I want Eugene flashback. I want to meet this guy. And someone wrote in to say they were disappointed that it wouldn't be Eugene Levy playing him. And yeah, I'm with you on that. I think that would have been a nice interdimensional nod to Schitt's Creek. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:11] Terry Myers. And in episode two, Joel falls off her lap. Falls into her lap. Falls off her lap. That would be quite the image. That sounds like something wrong. Was this plot point legitimately earned or was it rushed? What do you all think? Hmm. Hmm.

[00:38:30] I think it was earned because all of last season was about him not wanting to be connected to anyone else after what happened to his daughter, but then falling for Ellie, you know, as a daughter figure, like feeling connected and bonded with her. And then not wanting to lose her like he did his own daughter. So doing this really extreme act in order to save her and it being very controversial because she could have been the cure and she may have even wanted to be the cure.

[00:39:00] And so now this is sort of what follows from that. I mean, it's what follows from all of last season. Right. I mean, no, I'm with you. I mean, especially after all his actions in the finale of last season, I feel like that it's been more than earned. That this is retribution that he had coming. He just didn't realize he had it coming. Yeah. I think what Terry was saying about it being him falling into her lap, I think. I think it. Yeah.

[00:39:30] For me, I was like, oh, that's convenient. But also there are much fewer people in the world at this point. They are in close proximity and it has been five years. So she's planned this to T as much as she can. So obviously she doesn't plan bumping into him there. But it felt like a forgivable coincidence. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like all of the elements came together perfectly for Abby.

[00:39:56] She happened to see Joel on patrol plus the storm. He needed shelter because of the storm. So he was willing to follow her, you know. And so if it hadn't been for that, then just all these little elements that went her way. Right. And I do think that's just suspension of disbelief, you know. So maybe that's what Terry meant.

[00:40:19] Was that it was just all too convenient for this to happen rather than like Abby didn't have to fight her way through Jackson to find him. Right. Doesn't take it away from anything from me because that's not really what the story is about. It's not about her having to fight to be able to do it. It's about what happens after she did it. I think like Abby's had a hard five years. So like something had to go her way at some point. So I'm pleased for her, you know. She did win. Yeah, she deserved this. Have a win every once in a while.

[00:40:47] She didn't have to like struggle anymore, you know. So I'm sorry. I'm just picturing them walking away in that final scene. And at some point, Abby turns and says, well, that's a win. Yeah. Can you believe my luck? You know what was great? High five. I didn't have to go to the town. Like that would have been a real pain in the arse. Well, that was easier than I thought it would be. That's a load off. Abby's like, right. What's next? That was kind of fun. Let's kill someone else. Want to get shwarma? Let's get shwarma. Let's get shwarma.

[00:41:16] Oh, my God. Amber Lovo says, you mentioned in the podcast that it was strange that Ellie wanted to go out with Joel on patrol and she was defending their relationship to Jesse there. I thought because of the way he reacted to the homophobia, meaning Joel, how Joel reacted, and he was waiting for her with the guitar afterwards, that maybe she did finally want to talk and clear the air a little bit.

[00:41:41] Sure, she thought he overreacted to the homophobic comment, but I think that maybe it softened her feelings towards him just a little and maybe she was genuinely ready to extend the olive branch. That may be me thinking too much into it, but it made sense to me. Well, I like your thinking there. And somebody said something to me recently that I don't want to say because I think it might be a spoiler, but I'm less critical of that if this person turns out to be right.

[00:42:05] I know that's really cryptic, but I'm waiting to see if they make that moment better for me where she just suddenly had a change of heart. I liked what Bella Ramsey's delivery of the line about Seth getting drunk and saying things he's never thought before. I thought that was very dry and very good. Yeah. I said that during the coverage. It sounded like you would say, Lucy. Things I've never thought before. I know, I want to admit, like, yep, that sounds like me.

[00:42:36] But I would have eaten the steak sandwich mostly. Right? Not until you were out of view. Yeah, I'd have looked at it really disdainfully, but as soon as I was out the door, I'd be like, right, let's fucking chuck into this. Rachel Teal Edwards. Now, Jason, is it Rachel that's just had a baby? Yes, Rachel just had a baby. And in a recent episode, we were joking that maybe she's listening to this podcast while in the middle of the night feeding the baby. And she wrote back to me and said, that totally happened. Yeah.

[00:43:06] No way. That's awesome. Oh, that's so nice. Well, congratulations, Rachel. Rachel says, WTF. I had literally no idea that was coming. I said to my husband, wait, is Joel going to actually die? He's the main character. He can't die, can he? And he was pretty certain Ellie was about to save him. But holy shit, that was disturbing. I was more sickened and shocked than sad. The scenes in Jackson Hole, though, wow, absolutely incredible on the edge of my seat.

[00:43:32] Obviously made me think of the gang fighting the Horde in Alexandria, but the infected being fast and smart. Oof, so thrilling. I'm very interested to see where the season goes from here since this felt like a finale. You know, tonally, it kind of did, actually. Yeah. I thought the same thing after watching it, too. Definitely.

[00:43:51] And it reminds me a little bit of when Angela Kang came into The Walking Dead in season nine and the pace started picking up because, you know, sometimes like through seven and eight, it felt like they were just spinning their wheels and repeating the same kinds of things. And you can tell when someone's like, nope, I got I got stuff I want to do. Let's tell this story and move on to the next story. You know, it's a good feeling. Exactly. All right. Here's Carissa from PDX. Carissa.

[00:44:20] Hey, this is Carissa from PDX. My reaction to The Last of Us, episode two, season two. Not surprised about Joel. I was kind of spoiled about it on purpose because I wasn't in the mood for unplanned trauma. Nice person. It was traumatic enough as it was. Protect your energy. I respect Joel for not begging for his life. I think he saw in Abby's eyes that, you know, there was no way he could talk her out of what she wanted to do.

[00:44:49] And he just kind of accepted his fate. It totally laughed when he told her to just shut up and get on with it. Like, seriously, stop talking. I agree. I do think he felt bad. But, you know, let's remember that these medical researchers were going to dissect a person without their consent. Like, let's keep that in mind. Doesn't mean they deserve to get shot to death. But, you know, nobody's innocent here except for Ellie.

[00:45:16] Although now her innocence will be gone because now she's filled with revenge. I think Abby was, like, really messy. You know, like that saying, revenge is a dish best served cold. Or hers was messy and hot. She should have probably killed Dina and Ellie if she wanted to be thorough. Although Tommy might have come after her. But, you know, at least an attempt to not leave a literal trail. And now her friend group is side-eyeing her.

[00:45:47] So I'm going to guess what that one guy said about how she's going to get them all killed. It's going to happen. Just not the way he thought. So I feel really bad for Ellie. I think Joel saw how devastated she was and that she still loved him. And, of course, he would have preferred her not to see him die like that. But, you know, she's going to have that guilt with her forever. This show is going to have a choke hold on me for the next five weeks. Anyway, peace out. Bye.

[00:46:17] Bye. Bye. I totally get the knowing ahead of time to avoid the trauma. I mean, it's one of the reasons why there legitimately is a website called doesthedogdie.com. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I remember. People don't want to see dogs die in movies. I remember sitting there with Karen and David and who else? We were all doing the Game of Thrones, you know, Game of Microphones.

[00:46:46] And Karen said, I don't like I don't like all the stress. And my favorite character is so-and-so. I won't say because maybe somebody hasn't watched Game of Thrones. And she's like, and I read the Wikipedia page and now I feel okay. And I'm like, you just spoiled that so-and-so doesn't die for me. No, I didn't say that. I'm like, come on. Yes, she did. You thought it. I mean, and Chris even said too that things could be different if Abby would have just

[00:47:15] finished off Dina and Ellie at the same time. Yeah. This goes back to what I said. Joel would have just killed the nurses. Right. Yeah. All would have been fine. It's the same exact thing too. It's part of what this story is, is it's gray area. You know, it's not mustache twirling villains. It's people who for better or for worse still have a sliver of humanity left and that can get them in trouble sometimes. And it's legitimately what you said during the episode coverage.

[00:47:42] It's it is an exact cycle of violence. Yeah. It's just it's just repeating everything that has happened before. Absolutely. Absolutely. So David Fox. Okay. I watched season two, episode two of The Last of Us last night and whoa, I was not spoiled. And since I hadn't played the game, I was watching the entire episode with my mouth hanging open. They killed off Joel.

[00:48:09] I listened to most of your podcast for the episode and I actually feel better that this also happens in the game and that they weren't just trying to create a red wedding effect in the show that wasn't based on the previous lore. However, this changes everything. I was just digging in, digging in, hoping that Joel and Ellie would met, would mend their relationship. Such a burden for Ellie now knowing she was such a shit to Joel the last time they were together. Okay. I'm all in.

[00:48:36] And the infected attack was some of the most shocking imagery I've seen. Relentless. So scary. What can you do to protect against a horde like that? More flamethrowers? Amazing. I love the barrels. That was so smart. Yeah, that's cool. Tufain Tebowl says, am I the only one on here to not feel as shocked as everyone else? Nope. Hi Tufain, let's talk.

[00:49:06] I never played the game, so I didn't know it was coming, but I keep reading comments about how it's like the red wedding in Game of Thrones or similar. Maybe it's because I've watched lots of violent, gruesome shows, but although I cannot rewatch those Negan episodes without covering my face still now, same with Oberyn Martell's death in Game of Thrones, I wasn't that moved by Joel's brutal death. I don't know if it's because I'm less invested in the characters, although I find the actors and the writing really good, maybe because I didn't play the game or I'm getting desensitized

[00:49:35] because of too much brutality. I did cry at the end of Bill and Frank episode and welled up after the mall one. I love the song at the end. That made me emotional. And it is a song by Ashley Johnson. Tufain, I feel like you've got to the crux of the things I've been thinking this week I was like, am I less invested or am I desensitized? Yeah, it's interesting. Thank you for making me feel slightly less alone. Yeah, you guys are right on the same page. Lucy feels seen now. I feel seen.

[00:50:04] I feel seen. I feel a bit less like I need to go and get some psychological testing. This didn't bother me, but I cried at Kat food adver. Matt King says, disappointed with that episode. Oh, not the battle at Jackson. That was fantastic. But the manner and speed of the departure of Joel. I haven't played the game, but it had regularly been spoiled that he died in the second game at the hands of the Vile Abbey. But it just feels such a waste of the main star of the show, Pedro Pascal, to not only get rid of him inside two episodes,

[00:50:34] but to also give him so little to do or say in those two episodes. We saw in the first season how they added in new scenes, even a whole new episode in episode three. So to waste the talents of your lead actor was really disappointing. I will carry on watching, but just to see it through now. The only likable characters now are Tommy and Dina, and to a slightly lesser extent, Ellie. I'd rather have a character like Negan over Abby every day. Ooh, interesting.

[00:51:00] I get the whole changing of scenes and adding scenes like they did in season one, but to make such a departure and not kill off Joel is too far a departure from the story. Oh, yeah. If you ask me. Absolutely. It's something that absolutely had to happen. Or else, yeah, they're just going to have to tell a completely different story. It would be completely different from the game at that point, yeah. You can't really avoid it.

[00:51:27] I guess you could kill Ellie off and see what Joel does about it. That would have been interesting. Yeah. All right. Here's Dre from South Carolina. Hey, it's Dre from South Carolina. I've submitted feedback before, but I've never called. As I'm still experiencing the aftershocks of season two, episode two of The Last of Us. I felt like this would be a good episode to call in on. Like so many other people, I was shocked by Joel's death.

[00:51:57] As Abby tortured him, I kept thinking, how is he going to recover from this? And as the town of Jackson Hole burned behind him, I wondered, who would even be left to nurse him back to health? And when Abby finished what she came to do in front of Ellie, I had this moment of, this is a dream. I looked around at all the characters and thought, well, whose dream could this possibly be? And still, I kept believing that he would be alive somehow because how could this character disappear so soon in the second season?

[00:52:24] It's obvious that I'm not a game player and I've done well to avoid spoilers. I'm still just working to accept reality and left wondering with what comes next. I couldn't help sing a parallel between Abby killing Joel as retribution for her father's murder and then Ellie watching someone murder her father figure. And it makes me wonder if this begins Ellie's revenge quest against Abby and the military. I kept wanting Ellie to confess that Joel was like her father so that, number one, Joel

[00:52:53] would hear it before he died. But also, maybe it would have created a pause for Abby. Maybe some new empathy that her revenge is only perpetuating the cycle? Another fatherless daughter in this apocalyptic time? You asked if we had any sympathy for Abby and I can certainly understand she was angry. She had a right to be. But I also think we had this time jump, five years, right? And I just wonder if she had worked to process her grief and move on with a renewed focus

[00:53:23] on something positive versus this crazy spiral that she must have been on and brought all of her peers with her on this journey about as well. You know, grief can drive people into action. And I just think she channeled her wrong energy into it, right? And it's going to come back to haunt her via Ellie, maybe Tommy. Anyway, I've rambled enough. I desperately hoped I would wake up and see a new episode when I woke up this morning from you guys.

[00:53:51] Over the years, I've tuned in to process all of these shows with you all. And I always appreciate your conversations and your perspectives. Keep up the great work. And I guess the show still makes sense to say, don't get bit. Yeah. Bye. Yeah, Dre, I know. I know. I've seen your comments and it's nice to hear your voice and it sounded different than I thought it would. But that was a great call.

[00:54:19] You know, and it's easy to sit back and say like, oh, you know, it's been five years. Abby could have sat with this and realized what she wanted was wrong. But you also have to realize, too, that she is literally on her own with just nothing but a couple of her own people. She's got no support system because these are people that are empowering her to go on this mission. Yeah. So she really doesn't have a lot to change her mind and help her. Yeah. And she doesn't really have a lot or any kind of other system to kind of help her process that grief. No. It's been stuck with her the whole time. Yeah.

[00:54:49] I'm just trying to think if my if my mother, because she's the one I care about, I really didn't know my father. But if my mother had tried to kill a child in the name of some good thing and her that child's father came in and stopped it and killed my mother instead, would I be searching for this guy with such a vengeance for such a long time and then torture him? And I like to think that I'd be like, no, my mom shouldn't have been doing that.

[00:55:19] You know, I don't know. Maybe I maybe I would think that. Does Abby canonically know that that's what he was doing? I mean, what we can glean from the show in the very first scene that we see Abby with all of her friends. She says something about, yeah, there was a there was a kid in there and the rumor had it that she was. And I think she was going to say the cure. But Mel said, no, that's not possible. So she at least seems to have an idea. They said he took the kid. Right.

[00:55:48] So all they know is that he shot the place up and took the kid. We don't know for sure if she knew that her father was going to kill the kid, but it seems like you could put two and two together, in my opinion, you know, but we don't know for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Deborah Omer. Hi, the cast of us team. I haven't played the game. And even though I don't usually mind, I was accidentally spoiled about Joel's death last year while reading filming, reading filming news.

[00:56:15] So I was able to prepare myself for this devastating, but great acted episode. I just hope that this doesn't turn into a Glenn situation for the show. Well, we said there were no dumpsters in sight for the show. That situation. She means the baseball bat. Oh, got it. Okay. I hope this doesn't turn into a Glenn situation for the show with especially non game players not knowing what was coming and they stopped watching because of it.

[00:56:41] Things in live action always end up coming across more brutal than in any other form of media. But this was needed for this, uh, for the rest of the story to move forward. Also, I wanted to thank you all for renewing my full interest into the last of us because I had fell off with a few episodes left in the first season, not because it wasn't good. I just have so much other stuff that I have to watch for panels. I speak on throughout the year, but after listening to this podcast, lead up to this season, I

[00:57:08] went back, finished those episodes and checked out some of y'all's podcasts from the last season, then deep dived into the game and shows wiki. I am that much more excited for what is to come. Y'all have a good one and take care. I feel you so much on having too much other stuff to watch. Yeah. The shows have really fit together. Well, though, I was afraid they were all going to drop right at once and they were spaced

[00:57:36] out enough that, Oh, you mean like last of us and walking dead, dead city for four weeks. No, I mean like yellow jackets, walking dead. Yeah. Check your privilege. Check your privilege. But, uh, no, I have more, way more than Ben is what I'm saying. Yeah. People are going to get tired of my voice very quickly, but, uh, but Debra, what are you doing that you're watching TV shows and speaking on panels? I'm really curious. Let us know. I'm curious too.

[00:58:05] Cause as a fellow panel moderator, if that's what she's doing, I'd like to hear more. Yeah, absolutely. And you too, Jason, you, you've, you've made, you matter eight panels as well. In my past life. Okay. Claire Moore says, Oh my bloody God. I had no idea that was coming. Not seen the game. I can't even make sense of what I'm feeling. Uh, cry emoji, broken heart tear. I kept thinking, Oh Ellie come in and save him. Then when it cut back and Joel was so battered on the floor, I was shocked, but still thought, no, it's okay.

[00:58:36] Something will happen. Ellie's coming or Dina will wake up or maybe even one of her crew will stop her in the last minute. Absolutely. Absolutely. Another Ned Stark game of Thrones moment. I was not prepared for it at all. Yeah. Yeah. It feels like that. Cause you're like, what? No, I remember feeling like that. Like, no, that's no, that's not right. Anyway, the attack on Jackson was completely stunning, totally all consuming. And I just had no idea how it was going to go. That scene with Tommy and the bloater seemed so exactly like a game scene.

[00:59:04] I was surprised to read that it's not actually from the game. I mean, you have a lot of encounters like that though. So I'm so invested in this program. I never rewatched stuff, but went back again this morning and was just as shocking, heartbreaking and totally awe-inspiring. Off to listen to your pod now. Thanks for being so amazing guys. X, X, X. Thanks, Claire. It's funny that we, that we have this Ned Stark reaction now when that's changed so much because now anytime Sean Bean pops up in anything, we're like, oh, when's he dying? Yeah.

[00:59:34] Oh, come on, Sean. Tick, tick. Yeah. If he'd played Joel, then everyone would have just known. Everybody would have known. Tam from, well, actually, Pedro's at two now between Oberyn and this. So I'm wondering if he's going to get the same reputation. If they kill off Reed Richards in the Fantastic Four movie, I'm going to be pissed. Tam from Perth, Australia says, hey, fellow mourners. I'm just imagining that. How do you do, fellow mourners?

[01:00:04] Well, that was a bit much to start the day with. We get the release at 9 a.m. Mondays. So last week was the best Monday ever and today the worst. My initial thought hearing the alarm in the hospital flashback with Abby was, hey, that's Glenn's joyride red car from season one of The Walking Dead. I'm glad I didn't mind the spoilers from your podcast before this season started. I just didn't think Abby would get so lucky to complete her vengeance so soon. I was terrified the whole time from the extreme snow and the cold to the bloater finally being burned to his death.

[01:00:35] The time prep for the attack even gave Game of Thrones vibes. Just a really a giant congratulations to everyone who made this possible so we can all trauma bond in the comments and via your pod. Rest in peace, Joel. Every time I hear trauma bond, I think about trauma bond from Yellow Jackets. I like that. I like your writing style, Tam. All right. Here is Sean.

[01:01:01] I listened to the first little few seconds of this and I think it's going to be really interesting. Here we go. Hey, everybody. This is Sean. I'm a pulmonary and critical care physician down here in Virginia. I called last season about the antifungal agents. I hope that was interesting to some of you and not terribly boring. But I noticed on the podcast everyone was talking about the propofol that Mel used. That is correct. It was propofol.

[01:01:31] All you can tell by that milky color. And it's given that color and consistency because of its high fat or lipid content. So I just thought I'd point that out. Feel free to reach out to me if anybody has any medical questions on any future shows. I'm more than happy to contribute. I thought he was going to say, if you want some propofol. So thankful that the show's back. The first season was unbelievable.

[01:01:57] I'm not a video game player or at least not as much anymore since N64. N64, the greatest counsel of all time, by the way. But I just wanted to talk about, I think Mel is probably a nurse or a health care provider. She seemed to be much more caring other than maybe Owen and had readily available propofol.

[01:02:23] Not sure how I feel about her just sticking it in the hand instead of having an IV ready to go. So I think that's probably just, you know, you have to expel your disbelief with TV shows. But the only other thing I wanted to say was, and I don't know if this is too spoilery, but just comparing Pedro Pascal's deaths, this show, The Last of Us versus Oberyn Martell's death in Game of Thrones. So unfortunately, I kind of knew this was coming.

[01:02:53] It's probably the biggest spoiler from the games. And unfortunately, the internet exists. But I kind of knew this was coming, but, you know, still hit emotionally hard. But to me, not as hard as Oberyn Martell's death, which was so traumatizing to see. And I had read the books, and so I knew that was coming as well. But to me, it's just so much harder.

[01:03:19] With Abby, I think that she has a lot of things that you could be like, Oh, yeah, I totally understand why she's doing this. It makes a lot of sense. They make her a much more complicated character. Whereas with The Mountain is just pretty much pure evil. And it's just so much worse to see somebody who you're like, Oh my gosh, finally Oberyn's taking this guy out. Gonna kill this guy. Good guy's gonna win.

[01:03:47] Even though Oberyn was probably a complicated character as well. But still, much harder for me when I'm like, good is defeating evil definitively. And evil just takes him out and crushes his skull. But with this one, still emotionally tough. But to me, I thought that the Game of Thrones death was much worse. Anyways, cheers. I love the show. Keep it up, everybody. When that happened on Game of Thrones, that was the moment I'm like,

[01:04:15] I'm gonna stop hoping anybody lives on this show. I feel like Lucy pulled the football away. I love that shot. You could tell in the cadence that he was speaking and the birds chirping in the background. He was probably out for a walk while he was leaving that voice mail. And I love it. Yeah, that's cool. I love a bit of medical intel about that. Yeah. Brilliant. Absolutely. Yeah, if you have any more or anything like that, call in.

[01:04:45] Yeah. All right. Moving on with our feedback. Dobolino Bob Grippy. I barely played part one, knew nothing about part two, and even tried to skip all your podcasts spoiling it. Except I heard the word golf club and sort of knew. Most of all, overall, I love the pacing. They are plieing through the content a good pace. Did anyone expect to see Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli on the walls of Jackson? I said that too. Felt like Helm's Deep.

[01:05:15] This was so Helm's Deep. Minus the rain and dark and orcs and sheer number of attackers and Theoden testing cats and saying, is this it, Saruman? Is this all you have? Absolutely love the attack on Jackson. They handled it way better than I thought they would. Eight out of ten instead of a three out of ten where everyone gets wasted. Especially the one-on-one with the bloater. I thought for sure he was going to get ripped apart.

[01:05:42] The idea that they are sprinting a la 28 days later makes them more threatening instead of listening lazily and walking. Welcome to the sprinting dead. Oh, and Enid is a spy! Nice. Amazing. Enid is a spy. Excellent. Jillian Monroe. I mean, she's got a permanent perch now where she can see everything from atop the post. Jillian Monroe.

[01:06:12] Jillian says, I am not okay. I'm devastated. I haven't played the game aside from barely dipping my toes into the first game. And while I've avoided some stuff, I always skip game talk. But obviously the internet is full of spoilers since this is based on a game. Therefore, I had unwillingly learned Joel wasn't long for this world. And the Abby character would be the one to take him out. That being said, never in a million years did I expect it to happen in episode two of this season. Oh my gosh, so brutal. I cried hard. So many people are saying they cried.

[01:06:43] Like harder than anything I've ever seen on TV has caused me to cry before. My husband didn't even have words. I kept wishing and hoping that surely they'll pivot and someone will save him. But nope. How do we even move on from here? My hope is that we're still going to get plenty of Pedro as Joel through flashbacks this season. I still need to know what happened between them. Obviously Ellie knew he lied to her, but why did it take five years to get to this amount of animosity from her towards him? Surely more went down.

[01:07:13] It's the morning after and I still don't know how to process it. Damn you, Craig Mazin. I think we're going to get some Joel. I don't think this is the last we've seen of him in this season. There's got to be flashbacks, right? I hope so. I mean, yeah, there's some indication, but also I remember reading that he finished filming way earlier than everyone else. So we'll see. Yep. All right. Here's a call from Steve Brown. Hello, the cast of us. This is Steve.

[01:07:42] And this is for The Last of Us, season two, episode two, Through the Valley. And man, no previously on. It just goes right into the opening credits. Oh, is this a flashback to the hospital where? Or no, I don't know. Yeah. She was dreaming about the hospital. What happened? And this is the group that's tracking down Joel. And they just realized what Jackson is. Jesse, you're the worst. I already knew, man. Just screwing with you. Oh, Jason, you called it. The Seth guy is apologizing about what he said. Okay, this storm moved in really fast.

[01:08:11] And I guess Ellie and Jesse are caught in it. Which two people did Abby see when she was on lookout there? Oh, so Eugene was a firefly. Joel indeed. I just said that, Ellie. Oh, looks like Abby just found that field of corpses that they were talking about back in Jackson Hole, right? Oh, and she woke him up now. Oh, they can climb. Or at least one of them could climb. And where is she at now? Oh, gross. That one's hand on the fence and she's crawling. Oh, this is tense. Oh, no.

[01:08:40] That's Joel just saved her. And oh, well, she found who she was looking for. Does she know that's Joel, though? I don't know. Well, she knows now that it's a Joel, at least. Oh, talk about trouble. Now Joel is going to take her back to her people. And he's the one they're looking for. Oh, I don't know who this character is. But she's fascinating. This woman in the chair for The Last of Us. Hey, if this horde is chasing them, isn't it going to just chase them all the way up the mountain to the lodge? There's another horde that has now been woken up by the tendrils that were hit by that guy in the pipe.

[01:09:09] I'm confused. Oh, wow. This is really tense. This horde is chasing Joel and Dina. And also this other horde is coming at Jackson Hole. Oh, okay. I guess the ones chasing Joel and his people turned around and went back. I don't know. Oh, and they have one of those big ones. What are they called? The bloaters or whatever? Oh. Oh, they have flamethrowers. And now it's Tommy against the big guy. What happens to the dogs? They're going to fight the infected. Oh.

[01:09:38] And they all just figured out who Joel is. And now Joel's figuring out who they are. Oh. Did she just shoot Joel? Oh, she shot him in the leg. And now they're going to torture him. Oh, my goodness. Oh, this Abby is ruthless. Going at Joel's wounded leg with that golf club. Uh-oh. Ellie found the lodge. And she found Joel and Dina's horses. Oh. Did she just kill Joel? This is the second episode of the second season. What? Now they're just going to leave her there and leave...

[01:10:06] And they're going to walk, what, back to Salt Lake? I'm just stunned. And where are the other horses? Shouldn't there be four horses? And we got Jesse and Dina on horses with Ellie and their dragon Joel's body? I guess it doesn't matter. That's hilarious. Oh, man. That's my favorite part. We were just waiting for him to like... Oh, my God. I can't... Where's the horses?

[01:10:35] I feel like I went through that whole thing all over again emotionally. Including the horses. Including where are the damn horses? That was the best part of that whole thing. But, oh, where are the horses? Where are the horses? You know, it does bring up a valid point, though. They realize how big Jackson is. Is there any possibility there could be more than one Joel in Jackson? Yeah. And they have the wrong Joel.

[01:11:01] She asked, where was the last time you saw the Fireflies? And he said Salt Lake City. But he could have lied. Yeah. No, he said Salt Lake. If he had lied, how would she have known? Yeah, but if he had lied, how would she have known he was lying? It could have been a different Joel. I mean, the writers in the writer's room were asking the same questions as you, which is why they wrote the dialogue. If you lie, face it. Or if you tell the truth, we'll know. And then he said the truth. And then she said, thank you for selling the truth. And the writers are like, we're going to have to hope that's good enough.

[01:11:30] And no one's going to bring it up on a podcast. No, we need to remember where we put the horses, lads. Where are they? Oh, shit. We forgot about the horses. Fucking shimmer, man. Oh, my goodness. Oh, boy. Our friend Robin Mark says, like many others, I knew what was coming for Joel. I was expecting it. Did it hurt any less? Absolutely not. If anything, it was worse.

[01:11:56] But maybe that is just a testament to how fantastic Pedro and Bella are at portraying their characters and the connection they have. It sounds like this version of Through the Valley is a new recording by Ashley for the show. It was a nice, slightly devastating touch. I love that she sings in character for Ellie. If anyone is unaware, she had to train her voice down rather than up in order to create a fitting singing voice for Ellie because Ashley Johnson has a fantastic voice in real life. Both her and Laura, Abby's voice actor in the game, star in another game called Stray Gods

[01:12:25] that showcases how good they are. On a different note, I think that fight scene at Jackson Hole easily rivals anything Game of Thrones did in its last few seasons. I could see it happen for one. And could you imagine how things would have gone in The Walking Dead if Alexandria had been kicked out like that? The chutes for the barrels was a nice touch, but I have to wonder why they waited to deploy any of that after the infected had already reached the walls. Surely lighting them up before would have slowed them down before they got there? Oh well.

[01:12:53] On another different note, Tommy is so hot, it's inappropriate. As in, I should not be thinking about how attractive he is while literally everything is literally on fire. Including a link to a song featuring Ashley and Laura from Stray Gods for anyone who's interested in hearing their singing. Link in show notes. That's funny. Love it. Jeffrey Ashton. I'm not sure, but there's a moment where it feels like Joel starts to sense some things off as he walks into the lodge and meets Abby's group.

[01:13:21] It's almost like he realizes it's a trap, but not the usual kind, like a robbery. He's probably been on both sides of many robberies and ambushes over the years, and it's clear he can read people and has strong situational awareness. Pedro Pascal suddenly shows that Joel is a bit nervous. There's just a flicker of tension, like he notices the medic or maybe spots a firefly emblem. The group seems oddly specialized and, as Joel later mentions, military.

[01:13:49] But it's all happening so fast, and it's cool how Pedro uses just his eyes and body language to show that Joel picks up on something. Still, he lets it go and focuses on the plan to head back to Jackson. It feels like he's choosing to stay hopeful or trying to see the good in people, even with the warning signs. Maybe years of living peacefully in Jackson with Ellie have softened him a bit. I can imagine a younger Joel being one step ahead of them, more guarded and more ruthless, and getting the drop on the group.

[01:14:18] Then again, that version of Joel probably wouldn't have saved Abby in the first place. Having Dina there also limited Joel's options. It's kind of tragic to think that becoming someone who's happy, who loves and cares for others, may have ultimately led to his downfall. And I enjoyed the games and Joel as a character, but Pedro is just incredible in the role. He's so good that he made me think about things I never really questioned when playing.

[01:14:46] Well, that's great, Jeffrey. Lots of good little observations there. I pretty much agree with everything you said. Yeah, for sure. Thank you. All right. Here's Carly in Santa Fe. Hello, the cast of us crew. This is Carly in Santa Fe. I'm loving your coverage of The Last of Us, and I'm excited to hear Lucy's contributions. Oh, thank you. I have not played the game, and so I have no idea what's coming, and this episode two really surprised me.

[01:15:17] You know, I think I've had a problem because Pedro Pascal is so charming in real life that it's hard to remember that Joel is extremely dangerous and scary, and even Catherine O'Hara, her reactions to him in their session, just very afraid and careful with him. That was really interesting to notice a couple of podcasters pointed that out.

[01:15:44] And then in episode two, when Ellie says that she wants to patrol with Joel, I thought that meant that she was ready to reconcile with him. You know, whatever fight they had, she had her space, you know, she's ready to come back together after taking some space. And so, you know, just adds some bitterness to losing him right on that day. I loved seeing the horde. It was so scary and exciting, but also I loved seeing the people of Jackson having a plan and executing the plan.

[01:16:14] It was just so satisfying to see that. I mean, terrifying, but satisfying. And then talking about good versus evil or right and wrong, the whole situation with Abby reminded me of my favorite author, Terry Pratchett. He wrote the Discworld series. And so there's this part in one of his books. It says,

[01:16:59] So, So comparing Abby and Joel, the decisions they made, you know, you guys talked about the cycle of violence. Abby wanted to gloat. She wanted to watch Joel suffer. And Joel, he made a decision. He knew that he could not stand aside while Ellie was killed. And so he killed people without hesitation.

[01:17:25] So there's one framework for good versus evil. And in that specific framework, Joel would be considered good and Abby would be considered evil. I personally have not made up my mind about that. I think if I put myself in the shoes of either Joel or Abby, I understand completely why they killed the people they killed. It makes perfect sense to me. It's a really interesting conversation. How do we define good and evil?

[01:17:54] And, you know, are these characters living up to those definitions? Or can you even create such stark categories? So anyway, love the pod. What I really love about this story, and, you know, you hear Neil Druckmann talk about it, how people feel righteous in their vengeance.

[01:18:17] And they just clamp down on any like we talked about the which wolf do you feed? One wolf is about forgiveness, compassion, you know, things like that. And I tend to not really believe in necessarily good and evil, but I just think people who do bad things are ones that have closed themselves off to connecting with people on a human level. For whatever reason, they usually feel justified and righteous in it.

[01:18:42] Often it's because they were victims of some kind, but then they clamp down on it and go commit violence. And that's why it's called the cycle of violence. People on neither side are necessarily evil. They're just not handling things well. You know what I mean? So I don't know. That was really thought provoking though. And as one fan to another, I love the Terry Pratchett quote that she used as well.

[01:19:09] So I'm a fan of Terry Pratchett's work too. All right. Alicia Stout says, just finished the podcast on episode one yesterday. Eric, so good to hear your voice back on the pod. He was sorry he couldn't make it today. He had to do his day job. But Eric, come on, man. Priorities, come on. She said, I've missed not hearing your voice for what seems like forever. It's just like butter. Ha ha ha.

[01:19:39] Like, I mean, yeah, I can't disagree with that. Like you said, I can't believe you guys have been around podcasting for 15 years. Have I really been listening that long? Yes, you have. That means my kids were in fourth and sixth grades when I started listening and now they're full blown adults. Holy heck. Time is a thief. And yes, bring Karen back too, please. Well, I was hoping she'll do a listener feedback because I think she does watch The Last of Us, but she may be one of those that will never watch another episode knowing her after this, you know?

[01:20:08] I haven't talked to her yet. We'll see. Anyway, Alicia goes on. Now back to my regularly scheduled feedback. Okay, I need to admit I did a little cheating and listened to your game talk from the episode one podcast. As soon as I heard what shocking things were coming, I quickly hit pause as I realized I was getting too spoiled. But oopsie, I heard the part about the golf club. So when they did that quick pan with the camera over to the golf bag, I thought, oh boy, here we go. And man, I am speechless.

[01:20:35] That beat down from Abby was worse than Pedro's death as Oberyn Martell in Game of Thrones. That was really hard to watch. And Ellie's cries when she was laying on the floor were absolutely heartbreaking. Joel, just get up. Damn it. I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of Abby and her gang. The infected horde was absolutely terrifying and gave me way more anxiety while sitting on my couch watching through my half-covered eyes than any zombie horde from The Walking Dead. Yeah, man. The fast ones are more thrilling.

[01:21:04] At least those Walking Dead zombies just stumble and walk. These infected run and climb, and that is far worse. And this is only episode two. Other than that, so far, I'm loving the season. Can't wait to hear y'all's voices coming through my car stereo speakers this week. I don't know why I love bad puns so much. Maybe that's just how I roll. Oh, jeez. That's pretty good. Anytime there's a pun, I don't read ahead. I wait for it to be read. Yeah, you want to get the impact. Love it.

[01:21:35] And her watching through the eyes and me mentioning how I was gripping a cup and you guys jokingly saying, get Ben a stuffed animal. Like, I can't stop thinking that we need a plush bloater. Yeah, bloater. That'd be good. I love that idea. I want a plush bloater. Yeah. That's so good. A little string that you pull and it goes... That's so cute. I would love that. Nick from Philly says, first time listener to the pod.

[01:22:02] Enjoyed it very much, but of course I'm writing because I disagree with a few points you made. Clearly you guys do a great job on the pod and I will acknowledge that you guys cover so much and discuss so much that at times there may be a few throwaway lines during a two-hour podcast. So I hate to really critique too hard. My issues with the discussion over the cycle of violence. I don't have a sociology or a psychiatry degree or anything of that sort, but I feel that the doctor who is going to kill Ellie and Joel who killed the doctor in Fireflies

[01:22:31] are not part of any cycle of violence. The doctor was acting on good faith that he was hoping to find a cure and save humanity, but the only way he believed to do that was to kill Ellie and study her brain. There was nothing malicious in his belief. It's a worldwide infected pandemic and time is of the essence, heads his drastic measure. Joel was just protecting his adopted daughter and didn't care about any of that. His goal was to save her life and the only way to protect her long term

[01:22:58] was to assassinate the only doctor alive he thought could do the surgery. Whether the doctor had a scalpel to her neck or not made no difference. Joel knew that if he didn't kill the doctor in Fireflies, Ellie could never be safe. The cycle of violence begins with Abby, the daughter, taking revenge on Joel. She doesn't know the consequences of what happened in that operating room. She doesn't know the motives of Joel. And more importantly, there's still a grey area that comes to. Did Ellie give consent to her being killed and studied?

[01:23:28] Abby, on the other hand, just wants revenge. She doesn't care why Joel did what he did. My only other point is about Eugene and Joel and what might have happened. The only people who know about Ellie and what she truly is are Joel, Tommy and his wife, I believe. So if Eugene was a Firefly spy, then I can see Joel killing him to keep the secret and coming up with a cover story to hide the real reason he killed him. Thanks, respectfully, Nick from Philly. Thank you, Nick. I like your points.

[01:23:56] Yeah, we're just going to have to disagree on that, Nick. Because I don't see how you can say the doctor had no malicious intent right as he was going to kill a child. I mean, I know he's doing it for a good purpose, but he should have gotten her consent. But that's not malice. Yeah, it's not malice, but it's not good. No, I'm with Nick. I think Nick makes a good point here. I don't think, I think he's being, yeah, I think he's being led by a belief system that doesn't comply with what we see.

[01:24:24] And I think, you know, it's not a belief system I would hold, but his faith is in science and he thinks that by doing this one action, he can cure everyone. It's the trolley problem, right? If I steer this trolley to kill somebody that it wouldn't have normally killed, and I can save a lot of other people, it's a whole philosophical thing. And I'm just like, yeah, but what if you could ask the person who's laying on the tracks, hey, if I steer this trolley over to you, I'm going to save a billion other people.

[01:24:54] Is that okay? Then should you ask or should you not? That's the philosophical question in my mind. Yeah. The only other point I'll make, too, on what Nick had said is when it comes to Eugene and maybe Eugene knowing that Ellie was able to be a cure, being a Firefly spy, that was the reason why he took him out. I don't believe that's the case because his wife tells Joel, I know why you had to do it.

[01:25:21] So I feel like it's something unrelated to Ellie. Because if she knew the reason why Joel had to take him out, then that means she also knows that Ellie is immune. Yeah. It doesn't seem like she does. And hello also from Philly, Nick. That's also where I am. Yay! Okay. We got another call. This is Annette from Tennessee. Hey, guys. This is Annette calling from Chattanooga, Tennessee. First time caller.

[01:25:48] Started listening to you all while I was watching the Daryl Dixon show. And he's my favorite, of course. So I went back and listened to your rewatch of The Walking Dead, Fear of the Walking Dead. And then I listened to the first season of The Last of Us. Anyway, just wanted to call in about episode two, season two. The death of Joel was brutal.

[01:26:13] But I don't think that she realized that when she killed Joel in front of Ellie, that she created the same kind of anger that she felt when Joel killed her dad. And when Ellie said she was going to murder every one of them. I don't think she realized that Ellie probably will do it. But I've never watched the game or played the game.

[01:26:41] But my son told me I just need to wait and see what happens. So I guess we'll just wait and see. Also, the last scene of her crawling over. And you can tell she's hurt. I thought maybe she was going to die as well. Wow. But she's been estranged from Joel because of the things that she has done. She wants to get the closest to him that she can get.

[01:27:06] And she crawls on top of him and just holds that space with him like they're going to die together. And it just broke my heart, just crying. But the fact that she lived and they're taking him back to the camp so Tommy and everyone can lay him to rest.

[01:27:32] Abby better watch out because the wrath of Ellie is going to be fucking insane. Thank you guys for everything you do and hope to talk to you again soon. Yeah, good to hear from you. I don't know if I can make the noise. Oh. That's not bad. Yeah, that's pretty good. You okay? I also love your dog chipping in there. It's a theme this episode. These pets need attention.

[01:28:01] They don't want you talking to podcasts. Could you imagine if the episode ended with Jesse riding a horseback dragging two bodies and there's three horses missing? We would have like twice as much feedback. Amazing. Amazing. I love this next message the most. I'm just kind of glancing over it. It kind of reads like a live steving a little bit. Yeah.

[01:28:31] But it comes from Amber Culpepper. She says, hi, Jason and all. You said you wanted to hear from people who weren't spoiled. I have no knowledge of the game and just started binging the show this past Thursday. All I knew or thought I knew going into this series was that it was a zombie show based on a video game. There's a guy and a kid trying to get somewhere and I'll probably like it because I'm a fan of The Walking Dead, but it'll be different because it's HBO.

[01:28:56] I watched it all over the long Easter weekend, loved it and settled in Sunday night to watch my first episode in real time. Okay. So, some of my thoughts during the Joel scenes of this episode. Oh, Joel's saving Abby, so maybe this will complicate things and she'll change her mind. Maybe they'll work together. Did she say help them too? That's a good sign. Oh, she told them that's Joel. What will they do? Oh. Oh.

[01:29:24] Okay, so she's not changing her mind. Damn, how is he going to get back with his knee blown out? What's with the golf clubs? I think I saw a meme or something today, so that must be significant. Holy shit, where's Ellie? Oh, this is brutal. I'm trying to do my best Steve impression with all this. Oh, here she is. Get in there, Ellie. And she's down. Fucking hell, she beat the shit out of him. Ah, he's trying to get up. Break my heart.

[01:29:54] Are they doing this? No, they can't do that. Fuck, is this real? Was that really a kill shot? Is he breathing? I don't see him breathing. Is he breathing? He's not breathing. Oh my God, Ellie. Poor Ellie. Fuck. Holy shit. They wrapped him up. He's gone. Fuck. I just started watching this show, damn it. This is going to change Ellie.

[01:30:20] I hope the show can keep some of the charm and wit she's brought to it so far. I won't sleep tonight. And with that, I'll still be watching next week. Amazing. Amber, I hope I did that well. The Oscar goes to Ben. The Oscar goes to Ben. Yeah, we're going to have to cut together a few clips this episode of you just going, No! Fuck! Yeah, I worry about the wit, too.

[01:30:47] I mean, not worry, but I'm right there with you hoping they'll keep that. And I think with... Because it's been surprisingly warm and funny at parts, even just these first two episodes. And I think with Dina in there, that'll help a lot, you know? So, yeah. Here's a call from Monica from Seattle. Hi, cast of us. This is Monica from Seattle. Oh, my God. It took you guys forever to release season two, episode two. Okay.

[01:31:16] It was probably the normal time, but I felt like forever. It was the normal time. None of my friends watched The Lost of Us. They're all horror babies. So, I was just left to my own emotions and thoughts and grief about this episode. Well, and some crappy-ass YouTube reaction videos, but those are not the same. Okay. Three points to try to be succinct. One, all the acting was amazing.

[01:31:46] I really appreciated Pedro Pascal's kind of how he showed acceptance on Joel's face when Abby is giving him the spiel about some things are just wrong. Like, you could tell he agreed with her on a level and was like, yeah. Kind of did a really subtle knob. That's interesting. Pedro Pascal killed it.

[01:32:10] But I also really take comfort in the fact that despite how fraught Joel and Ellie's relationship was before this moment, that they were together in Joel's last moments. And even though it's so traumatic for Ellie, and I don't think this is, like, the best way

[01:32:39] to say goodbye to a loved one, to say the least, but at least they were together. And Joel was still cognizant of the fact to see Ellie and her reaction to what was happening. And Ellie was able to see Joel try to get up for her. You know, they at least could feel the love for each other in those last moments.

[01:33:07] So, man, making me teary-eyed just talking about it again. Also, my third point is Caitlin Deaver is crushing it. Her body language is very militia. You can feel her rage coming through. I think, you know, I've mentioned before, I think super muscular buff bodies in the zombie apocalypse is incredibly unrealistic.

[01:33:34] So, I'm glad that all that group is kind of thin. You know, ain't going to be that much protein or protein shakes in the zombie apocalypse, even if you're coming from a pretty well-stocked militia, food will always be kind of scarce. Yeah, so I'm really excited to hear what Lucy has to say about this episode as another non-person who did not play the game.

[01:34:01] Really excited to also hear the feedback from everyone in the community and that we can experience this grief together. Okay, thank you guys. Bye-bye. Thanks, Monica. That was really nice. And I always feel bad when we're having too much fun over episodes like this. So, I hope... I mean, we love this so much and I really felt the emotion in your call. Yeah, absolutely. I hope you call in again. And there's definitely not enough protein when you're turning down steak sandwiches.

[01:34:31] No. I mean, to me, that's the biggest offense of this episode is turning down this one. I love Caitlin. Not the missing horses. Not the missing... Well, I mean, no, we've just solved the mystery. Oh, shit. Oh, that's where the steak sandwiches came from. Oh, shit. All right. Let's move on to something else. You beautiful bastard. You put it together. Oh, my gosh. God damn you, Seth. Oh, no. Oh, no. I feel like I should say Caitlin Deaver is great as well.

[01:34:57] I remember her in Deep Cut, Party Down. Megan Mullally's character has a daughter who's a child star called Escapade. And Escapade is played by Caitlin Deaver, a young Caitlin Deaver. She's only like 10 or 11. So, when she was on screen, I'm like, oh, it's Escapade. And then, you know, she brutally murdered someone. So, that's tough. Oh, well. Jesus. Yeah, I think she's really, really good. I can't wait to see more. See what she'll do. Yeah, definitely.

[01:35:23] Yeah, she's got, like I said, I've seen her in Justified and in Last Man Standing with Tim Allen. Like, I was a fan of hers before she, like, when she was cast. Okay, so, I also posted on our Facebook. And if you're not in there and you want to be part of this whole conversation, you should check it out. It's just search Podcastica on Facebook. We do have a Discord, but I haven't started making that available to the wider community yet. But I need to do it because I know people are dropping off Facebook.

[01:35:50] But anyway, for now, Podcastica on Facebook, that's where we get our comments for the episodes. And I posted up there, do people sympathize with Abby? And we got 57 comments. And I'm like, we already have so much feedback. I can't read them all. So, we're just going to read a pretty good sampling here, though. So, 56 of them were me saying yes. No, almost everyone's actually, you're going to hear kind of a mix here. But most people said no, they don't sympathize with Abby.

[01:36:18] And I, you know, I don't even know when to say how much. I'm not going to say anything about the game. But I will just say, keep watching. You know, we'll see what happens. But anyways, Jenny Ryan says, not really. I think she would have been justified to do what she did immediately after her father was killed or if she was younger. But I feel like five years later, she should have grown up a bit and realized that Joel was only doing this to save his daughter. This sounds callous, but it doesn't really seem like enough of a reason to do what she did.

[01:36:45] I hope the season sees Abby regret the action she took and that she discovers that it really didn't make her feel any better. It just makes her feel worse. I'm not saying that she should have forgiven Joel or anything, but it seems to me like Joel did what he did to save his daughter. And honestly, any dad would do the same. I mean, her own dad was about to kill a child. So it's not like he's the moral best either. I totally agree with you, Jenny. Yeah.

[01:37:12] Deanna Driscoll says, I have not played the game, so I had no idea what was going to happen. On the surface, yes, I absolutely sympathize with her. As far as she knows, some guy just killed her unarmed dad, a doctor, very necessary person in the apocalypse, and then slaughtered everyone else in his path. She doesn't know the full story, doesn't know someone else's side. She only knows her side. It's just like the Negan Rick story, right? We only sympathize with Joel because we know part of the story.

[01:37:38] I think Abby and Joel both did something brutal because of the love they had for one person. Ooh, Diana. Diana, like, take that last sentence and inject it into my veins. That sums it up. I'm looking at the dialogue just to sort of, I've already sort of referred to this, but of the first episode of this season, one of Abby's friends says, why would he do this? And someone said, I heard rumors.

[01:38:08] It was some kid he took that was supposedly, and then Mel says, that wasn't true. Supposedly what? Supposedly what? Something not true. Because it isn't possible. No, probably not. And even if it were, it doesn't fucking matter anyway. Blah, blah, blah. So I guess that's just sort of saying they seem like maybe they have an idea, but they don't really care. They're just caring about having lost someone that they cared about. Well, a whole bunch of people that they cared about. Yeah. Which I can understand that.

[01:38:38] From Dina Karatzis. She says, what did that happen? It's not a fake out Glenn dumpster death. Sympathize with her? Nope. Not at all. And I'm only lukewarm on this show, so I have no loyalties. She replaced grief with hate and took pleasure in torture and will likely find no solace in her revenge. That happens. Yeah. Rebecca Kent to Davidson said, I do sympathize with Abby and I sympathize with Joel and with Ellie.

[01:39:06] If the show is filmed from Abby's perspective, we would sympathize a lot more with her in the way that we sympathize with Joel killing the fireflies to save Ellie. And if it was from Negan's perspective, we would know. I'm just kidding. So much of a life is relative and about perspective. Yeah, you're right. Don't get me wrong. I'm absolutely wrecked over Joel's death. I hadn't sobbed over a TV show in a long time and this had me sobbing. But Joel also most likely did many cruel things in his past. He did.

[01:39:32] And while saving Ellie was heroic, maybe this was his karma. I don't know. And that's why it's so entertaining because it really makes you think and really imitates how nuanced life really is. I love that. I think Joel thinks it was his karma. Like I think one of our earlier feedback comments pointed that out. And yeah, the way he plays it, it's like it's caught up with him finally. I didn't think about that. Yeah. When Abby said some things are just fucking wrong, maybe Joel was sort of agreeing with her. That's interesting.

[01:40:02] I mean, I think Joel had accepted his fate at that point until Ellie had come rushing in. But the question is whether Joel was sort of like, I kind of deserve this. I knew it was coming at some point, you know? Maybe he was just like, you know what? Ellie's been kind of a wang lately. I'm kind of done. Can you just hurry it up? He's like, just do it quickly. Oh, that's why he said, can you just get it over with? You don't need to explain it. I am agreeing with you. You know what? Give me that golf club.

[01:40:31] She's probably going to rush in here. Can you just do it already? I killed your mom too. I had your grandma. Everyone you know. I did all of it. Right. Come on. Hurry it up. Abby's like, what? You want me to do it? Well, screw you. Yeah. I'm sorry. Ellie's been kind of a wang. She kind of has. It's such a great line. She kind of has. Amber Lobo says, I sympathize with Abby because she didn't know why Joel did it.

[01:41:01] She just knew he did. Someone just offed her dad. She wanted vengeance. And if she really wanted to be horrible, she could have taken out Ellie and Dina too. True. Yeah. Yeah. Stacy Metcalf. I understand Abby's need for revenge, but I equally hate what she did. I didn't play the game, but my son said we wouldn't like this episode. I say he could have warned me with more passion. I'm devastated. I loved Joel. I fear for Abby's life as Ellie seeks her revenge. Crazy.

[01:41:30] She just created the same situation for Ellie that she's experienced. This episode was so well done. Yeah. We talked a little bit about that. They're the same age. Ellie is the age now that Abby was when Joel killed her dad. They're 19. Yeah. And that kind of plays into the cycle of violence thing. Sam Lowe says, I want to, meaning I want to forgive Abby. I'm not there yet. I get it, Abby. And that was really rough. Yeah.

[01:41:59] Erica and Fertr says, not even a tiny bit. It was Negan level torture. Joel was not innocent, but he did not torture the people he killed. He was trying to save Ellie and would blindly kill to get her to safety. Yes, Abby had experienced trauma, but that was enjoying her revenge way too much. I don't know how her crew could just sit there and watch. It was gruesome and cruel. I'm not a game player, so I know there is more to the story, but how it was portrayed was really grotesque. Enigo Montoya held a grudge for his father's death, but fought Count Rugen with passion,

[01:42:29] which I can empathize with. If she wanted justice, she could have just shot him. Interesting. Interesting. My name is Ellie. You killed my father. Prepare to die. It means Abby. So we're going to do some news in a minute, but Lucy's going to say goodbye because it is 4 a.m. in Scotland. Yeah. And Shimmer's here, and we're just going to go grab a steak sandwich. Oh no! Amazing!

[01:42:54] But you'll be on again for episode four, for actually the main episode, to talk about it. I will. I'm super excited. I hope it's... I mean, knowing me, it's going to be like... I don't know. I'm going to curse it, and it's going to be like the worst episode ever. I think it stars Shimmer, mostly. Amazing. My Little Pony. Wonderful. She goes on a quest to find the other horses. Amazing. Sorry. It was super fun.

[01:43:23] Thank you for having me on, and I will talk to you both soon. Bye, Lucy. Yay. Bye. Bye. Bye.

[01:44:10] Infected News. A little Eric in there. It's been a while since I've heard that, actually. Only two quick things that we'll make mention of that I pulled for this week. This first one comes from People Magazine, and it talks a little bit how Caitlin Deaver's mom had passed just weeks before she filmed that scene with Pedro Pascal. It says,

[01:44:40] Well, I didn't know about that either. To be as honest as possible, I will just say that my days leading up to the scene were horrible, she told Entertainment Weekly.

[01:45:10] I lost my mom two or three weeks before I actually shot the scene, and my mom's funeral was three days before I did my first day, she said, so I was sort of in a fog. The actress said in grief over her mom's death prohibited her from doing her normal routine as an actor to prepare for the big scene, which was really interesting because I was kind of worried about it. Usually, if I have a monologue like that, I'm memorizing it three weeks before I do it. I had a different approach, and I think that it really served the character in a lot of ways, she said.

[01:45:39] I was able to sort of, I don't know, just really let it go and not think about it too much because the words on the page are so powerful anyway. I can imagine. You're already feeling so much. You just sort of channel that emotion into the role. Yeah. And we've heard other things about that, too. I think there was something that came out about, like, Josh Holloway was going through something similar when he was filming a particular scene in Lost, like he had just lost his father or something like that.

[01:46:08] I could be totally off on that, but I know we've heard other stories similar to this. It makes sense, for sure. Yeah. And the only other one comes from The Independent, and it's Jennifer Aniston talking a little bit about her Blink and You'll Miss It cameo in the second episode. It says, Jennifer Aniston reacted with good humor to her unexpected Blink and You'll Miss It cameo in the hit video game adaptation, The Last of Us. In the season two premiere... Oh, this is going back from episode one, actually.

[01:46:35] In the season two premiere of the post-apocalyptic series, Bella Ramsey's Ellie explores a dilapidated grocery store where she stumbles across an old 2003 People magazine issue featuring Aniston on the cover. She quickly flips through it, but a distant noise startles her and she tosses it to the ground. Of all things to survive the apocalypse, wrote the 56-year-old friend star on her Instagram story on Tuesday alongside a clip of the scene. That's cool.

[01:47:02] So she had a little bit of an unexpected cameo. I like it. In there. I had a few things just from the wiki article. They did a good job of distilling a bunch of different things about this episode. There was a long write-up for it. But it was directed by Mark Mylad, who directed a bunch of Game of Thrones episodes, including Bella Ramsey's first as Leona Mormont. And I think that was her first acting role.

[01:47:30] So the same guy who directed this great Last of Us episode directed her and her first Leona Mormont. That Ellie's crawl towards Joel was there in Craig Mason's first draft of the script. He really wanted that to be there. That Neil Druckmann thought the inclusion of the siege added more ongoing conflict for the

[01:47:57] characters as they're dealing with more losses than just Joel. And Craig Mason thought it showed the characters loss of stability after feeling safe in Jackson. So I guess they wanted to just destabilize everything. Shake up the entire thing. Yeah. Yeah. Pedro Pascal was aware of Joel's death when he first took the role. And there's a quote I found from Entertainment Weekly. I've never experienced anything like I did that day where I stepped onto the set in full makeup

[01:48:26] and then killed the vibe completely as soon as anyone set their eyes on me. This kind of shock and heartbreak. It was weird to be on the receiving end of that. It's like the extreme version of, is there something on my face? That's hilarious. I really could see this sort of grief take over everyone's look in their eyes. Uh, Mason said he wasn't concerned about losing Pedro Pascal's popularity because he said the story is the star. Like, oh, poor, it's kind of dissing Pedro there.

[01:48:57] Uh, after this episode aired streams of Ashley Johnson's cover of the Sean James song through the valley increased by 1,005%. Although I don't know if it was out for a while. Like why would it have maybe it was already out? I don't know. Yeah. Uh, but Craig Mason said he thought that song using that song reflected Anna's love, you know, her mother's love for Ellie during the scene where Ellie mourns Joel. So essentially placing both of Ellie's parents within the scene together. Oh, I didn't think about that.

[01:49:27] That's yeah, that's really cool. A couple more. This film is, uh, this episode was filmed over a month and a half starting February, 2024. Uh, Craig Mason thought Joel's death prosthetics were the season's most important. And Pascal was 3d scan to allow the prosthetics designer, Barry Gower to craft his measurements, especially with Pascal's left eye being closed. The bloater stuntman. The bloater stuntman.

[01:49:53] Glenn Enos was required to use cooling pads and a cooling tent before being hit with a flamethrower, which he performed around 12 to 14 times. Jesus. The director thought they almost gave him hypothermia. I can't believe they actually were shooting flames at him. I figured it was all like CGI. It's kind of makes it seem more awesome though. And, uh, this episode has a 96% on rotten tomatoes. Um, couple of things, other things I wanted to mention that weren't in the wiki.

[01:50:20] Uh, the, the Abby's friend, Nora is played by Tati Gabrielle. I don't think we've mentioned it, but she also plays bounty hunter Jordan, a mun, the main character in last of us game developer, naughty dogs, upcoming new sci-fi game intergalactic, the heretic. Uh, I'm looking forward to that game. Yes, me too. It's going to be good. It's gotta be right. And then last, uh, we, I don't think we've mentioned this either or if we did, I forgot, but Isabella Merced who plays Dina is going to be Hawk girl in James Gunn's upcoming Superman movie. Yeah.

[01:50:49] And that will be competing with fantastic four starring Pedro Pascal. Superman starts July 11th, fantastic four, July 25th. Yeah. I was going to say, I think they're only two weeks apart. Yeah. And I can't wait for both of those movies. Me too. Me too. Okay. Now we're moving into game talk and, uh, we had a few, just like three more answers of do people sympathize with Abby, but they're from the gamers perspective. And I thought we should leave it out so we don't spoil anyone.

[01:51:18] So, uh, this is game talk. It will have spoilers for the game. I don't think it's anything super heavy, but there it is kind of spoilery. So if you don't want to be spoiled at all, you should probably just stop listening right now. And thanks so much, everybody. Yeah. There you go. Uh, all right. So then, uh, the first one comes from, uh, our friend, Pete Allen. Uh, he says, I do, I'm pretty team Abby, but that's because I've played the game and I've seen her story in full at this point in the game.

[01:51:46] And for quite a while after I was in full, they will all die for this. I think everybody was. It's interesting. Like Wendy, I'm telling you guys, people spoilers, spoilers, spoilers. We're going to be spoiling stuff right now. So if you don't want to hear it, please stop listening. Um, Wendy was like, cause she doesn't know anything about the game. She's like, how could anyone sympathize with Abby?

[01:52:09] And I'm like, well, you know, if you, you get to know somebody, then you might soften around them. And Wendy's the type where whatever she's feeling emotionally in the moment, that's just the way it is. And I think a lot of us are like that, you know, we don't think you can change, but in the game, even though I'm still team Ellie, just walk a mile in somebody else's shoes and you'll start to like them more, especially the way they presented Abby, you know?

[01:52:36] Well, I mean, and it's kind of, you know, we made a lot of comparisons in the main discussion, but I mean, the Negan comparison stands because it's the same way. I know people like myself who have kind of come around on Negan and feel like he's been redeemed a little bit in some of his actions, even though he's done some horrible things. I have too. I mean, I still think he's, he's lacking in a few ways as far as having come around, but on, in other ways, like saving Judith and all kinds of other stuff. Yeah.

[01:53:05] He, it is different. Yeah. But then there are some people on the opposite end of it that even after everything refused to watch dead city because they feel like he is still unredeemable. Yeah. And I wonder, yeah, with Wendy, I'm really curious. I'm like, I told her, why don't you talk to me after the season's over and we'll see where you are. And I, I, I really hope that the game, I mean, that the show can do what the game did and make us reconsider Abby, you know, but man, she gave more of a mustache twirling villain

[01:53:35] speech in the show than she did in the game. So there were cut out for them, you know? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Sean Hoyle said not on the show yet. I still think we need to walk a mile in her shoes. Kind of what I was just saying, but that's only because we've seen Joel and Ellie's story first. If we had seen up to this point from Abby's perspective without Joel's perspective, then we can sympathize with her at this point. Joel is the monster, the raider, the murderer. This will be outstanding when they flip the script. I imagine most shows show watchers only want Abby to die yesterday.

[01:54:05] It's just so interesting getting the gamer perspective and how different it is, you know? Uh, Pedro Martin says standing firm with my non-gamer friends that Abby ends up being, uh, ends up as my favorite character of the game series and the looks of utter disbelief they gave me. Don't fail me. Craig. Yeah. It's like make my friends know that I'm not an idiot. All right.

[01:54:29] We got more, uh, just sort of game related feedback and not, this isn't the question of whether you sympathize with Abby, but just listeners who wrote in that it was a little bit more skewed towards the game. So Mark McBurney said, what an absolute fantastic hour of television. That was excellent from start to finish. The whole lodge slash death scene was brutal and beautiful at the same time. The wife gasped and cried more than once and didn't expect the death after Ellie arrived, which made it more fun for me.

[01:54:55] Having Dina there instead of Tommy gives her a real reason to go out with Ellie in the hunt for Abby. The invasion was great too, leaving a gap where the barrels rolled down. So the infected, uh, couldn't run or climb up. There was a nice touch. So it was all them moving out the way when the bloater turned up. Definitely gonna replay when the season is finished. Yeah. Having Dina there. Yeah. Yeah. I said the same thing. Cause it makes me wonder with keeping Tommy in town instead of making him the one that

[01:55:23] goes with Joel and after everything that happened with Jackson, if they're kind of going to completely get away from Tommy's aspect of the story and leave him at home so that Dina has more of a reason to go than Tommy. I mean, I hadn't thought about it until just now, but what I suspect is Dina and Joel are friends, but they, you know, maybe don't know each other all that well. So putting here right in the middle ties her to it. Whereas Tommy and Joel are brothers. They don't need to do that with Tommy.

[01:55:52] He's still going to want to take revenge on anybody that, you know. Oh yeah. So they can still do the Tommy aspect of everything too. Yeah. I bet you they will too. Yeah. Uh, Weinman Owen. Oh, oh my, oh my crap. This episode from start to finish brought me back into the game, not for the obvious game moments. And there were a lot, but the anxiety and fear of being overrun by a horde of infected and running out of bullets, or in this case, flamethrower fuel, which I've done. Haven't we all? Yes.

[01:56:22] Caitlin Deaver has embraced Abby stupendously. Her intensity and emotion comes through beautifully. I was surprised that I was okay with the minor changes that was made. The switch of Dina and Tommy on patrol and more importantly, the horde attack Jackson. I missed parts of the conversation with Ellie and Jesse in the 7-Eleven regarding Eugene. I'll catch on rewatch. Other than the obvious game moment, my favorite was how they captured Abby with the infected crawling under the fence. The only thing missing from this episode was me holding a controller.

[01:56:52] Okay. Now onto the elephant in the room. We gamers knew it was coming and oh my, as soon as Abby shot Joel in the knee, it was like watching the cut scene all over again. It was as intense as it happened in the game for the first time playing it. Ellie coming in to see the horror. I felt all the emotions of that. The final stroke to birdie out. The Joel was brutal. So poetic. I love that so much.

[01:57:19] The episode, the episode had it all game stuff, great changes and tremendous action. And the song that played out the end was Ashley Johnson singing a nice little ad for sure. Bring on episode three. And another pun. I tried to make a belt out of watches. It was a waste of time. That is good. Bye. I like that, you know, the final stroke to birdie out the Joel because it's like she did it in way less strokes than she needed to.

[01:57:49] It's like quickly. That was awesome. Okay. Billy Thompson. Hello. Hello. I hope you guys are well. I'm well. From the very start of this episode, I just felt so anxious. I knew it was coming. I played the games, but man, I just felt so cold as Ellie entered the lodge and you could hear the thudding just like in the game. And yes, I cried again. I was hoping they would maybe change it up from the game a bit in terms of when we saw

[01:58:16] this happen just because that scene breaks my heart, but I'm still happy they stuck to the game. This is the event that sets up the entire second game. So I guess it had to come at some point early on in the season. The weather plays such a big part in this episode, just as it did in the game. I'm so happy they managed to capture that feeling that you get when you're playing as Ellie and you're out there looking for Joel. You can't see anything. You're cold. Infected could come out of nowhere. A real sense of anxiety. Yeah. Very well said.

[01:58:45] Where, where they did deviate was the massive battle of Jackson. Wow. We wanted more infected and we got them thousands of them. It felt similar to a game of Thrones battle scene when it was in its prime. Seeing Tommy blast the bloater. It was really cool too. Just such a whirlwind of an episode. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Once again, I'd imagine next up. So we'll be a lot slower, but can't wait to find out. Thanks guys. Bye. Yeah. I can't imagine episode three being as fast paced as episode two.

[01:59:14] Well, it's, it's directed by Peter whore who directed the bill and Frank episode last season. Okay. So I don't know if he's like, I want to do an action episode, but my guess would be, no, they want to slow it down to vary it. And they got that guy back again, you know? Yeah. Brett from Wisconsin. Hey everyone. I'll start by saying I don't watch the walking dead. So I haven't listened to much of the podcast, but I stumbled upon you guys while I was hyper fixated on the first season of the last of us. And I loved it.

[01:59:43] Here we are two plus years later, and I'm glad to be back at this point. I can only echo the sentiment I'm hearing all over the place. Now I know what the book readers felt like when the red wedding aired on game of thrones. I played part two when it came out in 2020. Wow. Was it really that long ago? 2020? Yeah. Five years. And when I got the Joel's death, I had to stop playing. Not like fuck this. I hate this game now, but more of the fact that the scene was so powerful that I literally

[02:00:11] had to go through the grieving process before I could continue. It took me about five days to get to the point of accepting what had happened and to move on with the story. This was the first and so far the only time any piece of media has made me do this, which I think is a testament to the power of the writing. Game of Thrones came close a couple of times, but not like this. I've enjoyed the vast majority of the changes from the game that they have made for the show. And I loved the battle of Jackson, but I'm not sure how having Tommy back at town instead

[02:00:41] of with Joel is going to impact the rest of the story. In the game, he sees the faces and hears the names of Abby and her crew. But in the show, he is still going to chase them back. Is he still going to chase them back to Seattle by himself? What are your thoughts? That's it. I just wanted to throw my experience into the mix and hear your thoughts. Sorry for the essay of an email, but be glad I didn't leave a voicemail because it probably would have been 25 minutes of rambling. Thanks. And I love the podcast.

[02:01:10] If you ever do get around to watching the Game of Thrones, if you ever the Walking Dead, the Game of Thrones. If I ever do get around to watching the Walking Dead, I know I'll have hundreds of hours of bonus entertainment with your podcast to look forward to. Thanks, Brett. Yeah. Glad you're back watching this with us. Yeah. But I mean, he mentioned, does he think it's going to change anything with Tommy? We kind of touched on that just a little bit. But do you think it will? Because in the game, Tommy goes off on his own and Maria's upset.

[02:01:39] And then Ellie and Dina chase after him. I think the only thing that could make him kind of hesitant on leaving is because of the fact that Jackson just went through what it did. Yeah. And that's, I wonder too. And I wouldn't be surprised if, and he has a child too. He didn't have a child in the game. Yeah, that's true. I wouldn't be surprised if he goes and, and everybody's really upset because they need him back there, you know? Yeah.

[02:02:05] But Dina could be the, I mean, with Dina being there instead of Tommy, Dina, she recognized the faces. She heard the voices. That's easily swappable with Tommy. Yeah. That's a good point. Maybe Dina will go off by herself. Oh, that could make things interesting if that happens. We don't know. Yeah. Rinaldi Kaleek says Tommy and Maria are king and queen of the prom. I love their action scenes against the Cordyceps horde and Jackson. It was shot beautifully and just choreographed so well.

[02:02:32] I like how it was triggered from Abby's flight from the initial horde. They weave that scene directly from the game. My only scene that I liked of Abby's this episode was that sequence. Not hard to guess why into the battle of Jackson, which was just a great change from the game. Oh yeah. Joel was killed. That thing. Yeah. I'm cheating because I went through that five years ago. I'm proud. I didn't spoil a single soul in this amazing podcast to cast of us community about Joel's death. I'm proud of you too. I wish I could say the same.

[02:03:00] I probably have spoiled a couple of people, but I tried to warn you. Not on purpose. Craig Mazin and Neil Druckmann and the team did a great job recreating that moment from a visual standpoint. Totally. I was with Joel when he told Abby, just shut the blank up and do it already. If you're going to go out, go out like a boss with a line like that. Totally. And yes, Abby sympathizers who may be listening. If Jason reads us on the podcast, we know Joel killed her daddy.

[02:03:26] We know it traumatized her, but saying Joel is selfish and violent is like saying Matt Murdoch is blind and violent. I kind of moved past that detail very quickly as someone in the audience who isn't a part of the fireflies and not really a firefight fan. And neither was Eugene, the husband of Gail. Wonder if Gail is going to be excited seeing Joel's body and want to have drinks with Abby. On top of that, we spent 10 episodes with Joel and he's played by the handsome Pedro Pascal,

[02:03:54] who Abby oddly enough thought was handsome, which is weird. Imagine if Maggie told Negan he was handsome. I don't think she'll ever say that. We were connected to Joel, even though I like Ellie and Tommy more. How are we going to be connected to you, Abby? How? How? We better get flashbacks of your daddy and he better be an interesting character. It's the only way I'm going to care about you, Abby. Anyway, my heart goes out to those who cried out for Joel. Those who weren't spoiled, who didn't play the game.

[02:04:23] I'm sorry for your pain. Finally, well, none of them can hear you right now unless they don't care about spoilers right now. Finally, Ellie, don't go running off after psycho Abby and her bootleg punisher Melissa buddies. You better have a plan or you're going to have more than sore ribs to deal with from douchebag Manny. Ask Tommy and Jesse for help. Ellie, Ellie, Ellie, get back your Ellie. Ah, here it goes. Kenan and Kel reference. I don't get it. Millennials will get it. Everyone else can Google or chat GPT.

[02:04:53] I've seen Kenan and Kel and I don't get it either, but that's okay. Thanks, Rinaldi. Matthew Tindall says, so I wanted to start out by saying why normally hate changes in adaptations. I thought the Jackson battle was such a good choice. It really gave Tommy a chance to get more screen time and I loved it. I'm very picky with battle scenes. So while I think their defensive tactics could have been done better, overall, that part was really good. I thought their defensive defensive tactics were great. We praise the barrels constantly.

[02:05:22] I also like that it put Dina with Joel instead. I think it was smart to slow down her relationship with Ellie and also show more of her connection with Joel like they did in the first episode. Some of the small changes they made when Joel first meets Abby were also helpful towards addressing some of the complaints people had with the game, like him not giving his name this time or him being distracted by the situation at Jackson so he was less on guard with Abby's group.

[02:05:52] Another reason why the Jackson change is better is because now there is a much better reason for Marie to tell Abby and Tommy that she can't spare the men. That's also a good point too. Always bothered me in the game that she wouldn't do anything to help catch the people that killed her brother-in-law. I said Marie too. It's Maria. I do have two complaints though. One, I think it was a terrible choice to telegraph Abby ahead of Joel's death.

[02:06:18] I get that they wanted to introduce her earlier, but it just took so much of the shock value out of the scene. Regardless of your opinion on killing Joel, that was the biggest sucker punch probably in any media ever. I agree. We talked a little bit about that. Yeah, it was. And I really thought that worked well in the game, but I just think in a show they risk people just quitting watching because it seemed to come from out of left field and suddenly

[02:06:47] the reason why they're watching the show is gone. I think they just wanted it to make more sense for people. I guess. I don't know. No, I can see that. And he continues on with two. I haven't really heard anyone talking about this, but Ellie mentioning that her and Joel were getting better is such a terrible narrative choice. The emotional climax of the story of the entire story is in the flashback at the end when you get that bittersweet realization that they had overcame everything and taken that first

[02:07:15] step towards reconciliation in their final moment together before his death. I think it might be a, it might be minor enough to people that don't know the story that they might forget about it by the end, but it was unnecessary and undercuts that moment. I want to end on a positive note, however, because I like part two of the game. While I have some issues, I still am really enjoying it overall. The actor playing Jesse has to be the best casting in an adaptation of all time.

[02:07:42] He is perfect as Jesse and I really hope they expand on his role in the show. I love his character. He's so good. Yeah. I agree. What great adaptation. 100%. Yep. The only one I can think of that might hold a candle to it is Glenn. He was spot on. Yeah. And I want to, something that was said earlier too about, and I forget who said it, it might have been Rinaldi, about how a media, The Last of Us is one of the only one of two

[02:08:09] medias that has made him cry in playing the game. And I think you can probably agree with me on this one. I don't know if you had the same effect, but Spider-Man from PlayStation was another one that really had me emotional at a particular moment. I love that game so much. Yeah. It's, it's just, it's another great just piece of cinema as a game kind of thing. Like Last of Us for sure. Um, I, gosh.

[02:08:39] So he was mentioning, you know, Ellie mentioning that her and Joel were getting better as a terrible narrative choice. And I had criticized that speech too, because it seemed like it came from out of nowhere and I could be wrong, but I think this next call addresses that because it's the only piece of feedback we have left. And I thought someone talked about it. So it's gotta be this one. We'll see. Okay. It's Jennifer Palomo. Cast of Us.

[02:09:06] I was just calling to talk about, um, Ellie's speech the morning after the new year's party regarding her feelings about Joel. I think that the way the show opened, this episode opened, it showed that the guitar was actually in Ellie's room and it wasn't just lying on the floor the way it had been. It was, um, in a more carefully placed position.

[02:09:33] And I think they did that to show us that there was something that happened between Ellie and Joel after she walked by him playing the guitar on the porch. Otherwise, how would she have gotten the guitar? So I think that it's not just a random or unexplained shift in her attitude. I think that they definitely had some kind of reconciliation.

[02:10:00] Anyway, enjoying the pod as usual and I hope you guys are doing well. So I think what she's getting at, maybe shouldn't want to spell it out, but we're in the game talk spoiler segment is that they did have that scene where he comes in and plays the song future days or something like that, you know? And I think we're still going to get that only in a flashback now. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, and just thinking about it, it's totally a guess.

[02:10:27] I don't know anything, but the way that they showed her standing in front of him and it felt like someone out of a horror movie to me when he was on the porch playing guitar. I think they, maybe they wanted to make that scene just really stand out as something that we would remember so that when they flash back to it, they can start there and then take it from there, you know? Yeah. I agree with that. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, I think we're going to see that in a flashback probably in the next couple episodes. We'll see that. That'd be cool. Yeah.

[02:10:56] Cause I missed, I miss seeing that scene. That was one of my favorites in the game. Uh, there are just a couple other news items from the wiki article, literally two that I wanted to say for the game section is that, uh, Craig Mason said keeping Dina separate from Ellie made their ongoing relationship more ambiguous. But he said also that he thought that gave another reason for Joel not to defend himself against Abby because it would risk Dina's life. So that was another reason why I think that was a pretty good choice.

[02:11:24] And then last, uh, some takes featured Manny spitting on Joel's corpse as he does in the game. But this was cut in federal, in favor of another take, which, uh, that's too bad. I like that. I mean, it's not a cool thing to do, but we still get him saying the line to Joel as he's walking away. So there's still a little bit of an impact there. What'd he say? Cause him like Pendejo. Oh, okay.

[02:11:51] Like, you know, as he walks away, which he does in the game as well, but it's, it's something, there's just no spit. Yeah. Shows that just detest feeling of detest that he has. All right. That is our show. Episode 636. Thanks so much for listening. Everybody. Thank you, Ben. Um, I thought this was going to be like three and a half hours. So me too. Not too bad. Pretty good. Pretty good. Next episode. Last of us season two, episode three.

[02:12:20] They're not giving out titles. As I said, it's directed by Peter horror who directed the bill and Frank episode. So it should be good. Yeah. Uh, and if you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can find all of our contact information over at the cast of us.com. And while you're over there, you'll also see all of the other podcasts, podcasts. Um, what would be a good one to check out? I don't know. You guys into handmaid's tale. We're doing that right now. If you think this show is bleak, check out that show.

[02:12:49] And I, I will say too, I just had a discussion the other day with Rima, who I think is coming back with Pake to cover the last season of you. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and I will also say next week, you're going to get two episodes of the cast of us, not including the feedback episode, because I will be starting my dead city coverage by doing a catch up, a season one catch up, uh, next week before season two starts in less than two weeks. Awesome. Awesome. That's great. Yeah.

[02:13:19] And Alex, Alex Kruger is going to be joining me as my permanent co-host, uh, in addition to bringing on some other guests along the way. That's awesome. I love that. Yeah. That's cool. I'd love to, maybe I'll come on for one this season. You should. If there's room. Yeah. I wanted to bring on a co-host with me this time, just in case, like, cause if there happens to be a week where somebody can't make it, then I'm stuck by myself. And I'm glad it's Alex. Uh, good to get him more involved. He's great. He called into Cobra Kai a lot.

[02:13:47] You guys are going to love his voice as much as you like Eric's voice. Yeah. Yeah. He's, and he's very, he's very excited to join me for the coverage. So he's a good guy. All right. Well, one more thing. This episode is made possible by Patreon supporters like Karen Condome, who've pledged their support at patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi. So thank you to Karen and everyone else who does that. They all get ad free episodes among other things, and they get to support the podcasting. Indeed. All right.

[02:14:16] That is our show. Thanks for listening. Don't get bit, Tracy Howells.