639: "The Path" (The Last of Us S2E3) Listener Feedback

[00:00:03] A Last of Us, Season 2, Episode 3, The Path

[00:01:05] I mean, I totally missed that the first time through. And then I listened to the podcast, and they were talking about corn. And I was like, what are you guys talking about? And then I watched it again. And I'm like, Oh, this guy's great. It's so good when they're late. He's like, I don't have an opinion about that. About that Seattle stuff. I, it's like, I mean, I love it because you just know I haven't been to any town hall meetings, but I'm just sure that at any town hall meeting, you have people there for their thing that no one else cares about. You know what I mean?

[00:01:35] I would watch The Last of Husk. That's just him talking about corn, like his parallel story where it's like everything else that happens is just in the background. Yeah. Like, if you just get some turkey because it's more sustainable. He writes in his journal, zombies came today, trampled corn. Yeah. Some guy called Joel died. Eh, corn okay. Whatever. Never liked that guy. Corn okay. Didn't like corn. Abby left corn alone. Abby okay by me.

[00:02:07] What'd you think of the episode? I enjoyed it. I really did. It was, uh, I always find the episodes after a big event really interesting. And I thought this one did a nice job of setting the tone. Um, yeah, I wonder, I wonder if there's an audience that are needing to be won over at this point to kind of be sold on us, not a soft reboot, but like, this is what it's going to be now. It's going to be Ellie and, um, Dina and what's coming next, but it seemed like a nice way to introduce

[00:02:35] it. Yeah. I mean, I was really worried that it was going to be another Glenn and Abraham where half the audience would leave, but at least from what we're getting from our listeners, you know, people were moved by it, but they're not like, Oh, I don't like this. I'm, I don't want to watch anymore for the most part. You know, I haven't heard hardly any of that. Absolutely. Correct me if I'm wrong people. No. And I listened to a lot of like, I've been listening to a lot of podcasts about the show

[00:03:01] as well. And it's been really interesting to hear kind of, um, just how impacted everyone is by it, but how invested people are in going forward. I did find it one podcast I listened to. I find this really interesting. So like your argument, which I think stands is that Ellie couldn't consent to what was happening to her. And that was the big issues that no one asked her, like, can you do this? One of the podcasts I'm listening to fully assumes Ellie's consent to it because they're like, she said at the start of the season, she would do whatever it takes, blah,

[00:03:31] blah, blah. And as a result, their reading of a lot of stuff is really different. And it's quite interesting to listen to that and be like, Oh, okay. They're very secure in that knowledge that that's, that's how it went down. Um, yeah, it's been quite interesting to compare and contrast because I still don't know where I stand on what she would have done or not done. But I mean, I think she would have consented, but my whole thing has been, yeah, but she didn't get the chance, but that's actually an interesting take if you think about it that way. And I'd want

[00:03:58] to go back and look at the dialogue and what she said, but I bet you that is true. And cause it makes it harder for me. Um, so in that case that it's more complicated for sure. Yeah. I also feel like I should send my love to Mr. Blog slash Eric, because we keep missing each other and talking about each other whenever we're on, but hopefully we'll be on together soon. If you, I mean, it'll, it'll happen. I think next time, but, um, knock on wood,

[00:04:23] but if you can presume that Ellie would have given consent, which I would argue maybe not. Cause when you say I'll do whatever it takes, sometimes you don't mean I'll die, you know? Yeah. I'm like, no, I meant like I try real hard. Okay. Like, but anyway, just for arguments sake, as I'm thinking this right now, if you could assume that Ellie consented, then I think Joel is wrong. Yeah. She's a child. So it's a little bit. That's the other thing is there's this great

[00:04:53] area of like, she's 17. What's the age of, um, consent in America? Is it to decide to die? What's the age of consent to decide to sacrifice yourself for the world? Uh, I think it's like 12. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I wanted to say if you think, cause I didn't, I wasn't on the main episode, I really liked it a lot. I think Bella Ramsey is doing so good. I'm like proud of them. And, uh, Isabella Merced also killing it. And, um, so a few other just quick notes that I don't think I heard

[00:05:22] mentioned on the podcast. Uh, uh, Dina gave Ellie some cookies and that took me right back to the pilot where cookies were a big deal, right? It was like the neighbor tried to give Joel's daughter, Sarah, uh, the same kind of cookie, I think oatmeal raisin. And Sarah said, I don't want that. And then it turned out to be that the fungus was in the flower. And I'm like, well, isn't that still a problem?

[00:05:49] Oh shit. Yeah. Right. Like, I don't think so. So I don't, I don't know if that was overlooked or they actually, it seems like if you're going to have oatmeal raisin cookies show up again, it's going to be a deliberate choice on the writer's part for some reason, but I can't figure out why. You know, you can do cornflower. Oh, that's probably what it is. Maybe cornflower is, uh, immune like Ellie. I don't know. I tell you, corn guy's got it right. He's got it right.

[00:06:18] He knows what's up. Yeah. Uh, I, I really especially love listening to the conversation with Ben Ream and Eric about this guy, Seth. That was really interesting. Yeah. And, and the way they spoke about it was similar, how it went down in my head, I think. Cause Ben just was like, fuck yeah. Seth was so right. I may be paraphrasing a little, but, um, and then Rima was like, yeah, but you know, she was talking about the theme of this whole story is about holding onto hate

[00:06:46] and acting from that place. And, um, and also, so, so I kind of, I liked that Seth, cause I was really like, yeah, you're, you're actually a complex character. And I love that. But then it's like, when Rima said that, I'm like, yeah, maybe he's just an asshole who likes to hate everyone, you know? Um, but anyway, like, um, then this guy, Carlisle, who was before Seth preaching mercy and says, says, fuck that. We need to go after them because they'll come back. And I was like,

[00:07:15] eh, I don't know, maybe, but I feel like that's just a rationalization or not just, but it's partly a rationalization just because you have a desire for vengeance. Cause it was pretty clear that this Abby had a vendetta against Joel. And so you can't assume they'll come back. And, um, I'll just say if Ellie and Nina would have listened to Carlisle, the guy preaching mercy, I don't want to give away any spoilers, but I'll just say some very bad things would have been avoided.

[00:07:43] Yeah. You know, I, I thought Seth was interesting cause I, I wondered if this was him really trying to atone for what he'd said to Ellie. Cause I'm like, if you could figure a way to Ellie's heart, it would be cold hearted retribution and violence. I don't think so. I think that was at least the way the actor played it. I don't think he was, he was thinking about Ellie at all. I think he was just like really offended that you wouldn't go after these guys who took one of your

[00:08:12] own as he said. That's what I thought. He doesn't care. I don't think what, well, I mean, Oh, I think he does, but yeah, I think he does. If he didn't care, he wouldn't have held his hand out to her at the end. Yeah. I think you're right. But I just think that the way it read to me is this was just something he felt really strongly about. And personally, my gut says, yeah, fuck. Yeah.

[00:08:37] Go after these people. My brain says, maybe that's not the smartest thing for our community. My heart is kind of on the fence. Not so sure, which that kind of thing happens to me so much in life. It's 100. I'm, I'm with them. I'd be really interested to know who did vote. Yes. On the piece about that in the news. Yeah. I think it's a dumb idea. I don't think you can justify it.

[00:09:02] I don't think you can justify sacrifice for the sake of one person putting everyone else in danger, but she gave it like, you know, Ellie gave it a good shot. Um, yeah, it, it, it will play out as it will play out. And Seth gave her the goods. So go for it. I mean, I lean in your direction, but that would be such a shitty story. So I'm glad they went after someone pointed out and I can't remember if it was an air pod or somebody else's, but like, do they know that it was Joel?

[00:09:33] Joel was targeted. Cause if the, if like, it's interesting to me, cause if they know Joel is targeted and they're not like, why did they care about Joel? What did he do? Like, but maybe it's just, they assume, you know, his life caught up to him or something like that. But I am a bit like, someone scratches at the surface of this. I mean, I'm trying to remember. Yeah. How much Ellie actually heard probably not much, right? She just came in and, but then I can't remember. Maybe she did hear,

[00:10:00] I don't know. I don't know. I have to go back and watch again, but let me, uh, I'll just not wait till the news I'll say right now. Cause there's only one news item and it's what you just said. Gabriella Luna who plays, uh, uh, Tommy talked with GQ and revealed how the vote went or at least how it played on set. Tommy, naughty. It's supposed to be confidential, but go on. Yeah, right. That's right. He's just telling everybody. Uh, he said, I haven't seen the final cut. I saw a version of this scene. I wonder if it's

[00:10:29] different, but it's, we got to do it the right way, but I got her back a hundred percent. I'm voting. Yes, we go. It's a quick vote for me. The moment we start taking the votes, I write it down. I hold it up. I look around and it's, we're all in this together, right? Everybody's on the same page in the end. It may very well be just me, possibly Maria. I think she voted. Yes. Yes. The third vote. Not exactly sure who it is, but it's not Jesse, which is smart. He's right. We're all acting from our guts and our hearts and he's acting through his mind and his head,

[00:10:59] but it's pride in Ellie and her ability. Uh, he kind of goes on, but so from what he understood, Tommy and Maria voted. Yes. He doesn't, he doesn't know who the third one, but he knows Jesse voted. No, I love Jesse. Not for that, but like his character, he's one of the real highlights for me of this episode. I'm like, yeah, he's great. He's just lovely. He's just a nice guy. No, I like him too. He's a really good character. He's probably gonna do something horrific and nice.

[00:11:28] I'm going to be like, so he murdered a bunch of children, huh? Damn. All right. Let's get into listener screams, snarls and clicks. Click, click. I'm a zombie guy. Dobolino Bob Grippy says, send 10 to 12 out for reconnaissance. Not an option.

[00:11:52] Well, you know, we missed three months in there and so maybe they did some of that, but my honest answer to this is as a, like I was listening to Mike White talk about White Lotus. He's the main writer, creator of White Lotus. And he's like, yeah, people are asking like, why weren't police there interviewing? And it's like, that's not interesting. You know, basically that's what he said. It's like, just, that's not what it's about. You know, no one wants to see that. No

[00:12:21] one wants to see the admin. Yeah. And so a lot of times when there's these questions about logistics, the logical thing to do, it's just like, yeah, this is a story about revenge, not what would be the logistically smartest thing to do. So it's not about corn. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Dobolino Bob Grippy is like the corn guy. He's the corn guy. Yeah. Jennifer Camiller. No offense, man. I mean, you're right. Yes, absolutely. They should do that.

[00:12:49] We love you, Bob. Jennifer Camilleri says, did they change the opening credits? Yes, they did. They took out one person. I got chills. Give my love to Sarah. Cry. That was a very powerful scene. Oh my God. I didn't. It was so quiet and so intense. Alma Contrera says, OMG, I just hopped in here to say I love everyone's puns. Keep them coming because amidst so much darkness and tragedy of the show, the puns do give me a much needed giggle.

[00:13:15] I hope you hear some more puns from Ellie this season. I know a couple of listeners sent some in, so you'll hear some of those pretty soon. Josh Gale says, gah, I'm kind of conflicted with this episode. I enjoyed it very much, but I feel like it was a waste of an episode. It kind of makes me worried. We've got four episodes left, one of which is dedicated to Eugene, I assume. Is that enough to tell the rest of the story, including another season? No, I think it's all fucked. So it's just going to be bad. I'm just kidding.

[00:13:47] And is that the full season or is that a mid-season finale? What? This was episode three. If we've got four more, that's seven episodes. Is that the full season? That's it. Yeah. Only seven. Yeah. It's pretty short, but what they said publicly is they decided that was a good end point for a season. But anyway, I don't agree with you, Josh, but it's

[00:14:10] all subjective. I'm quite excited for the Eugene episode. I know other people felt like this was slow, and I think some of the other listeners will say the same thing. And I get that, but I really enjoyed it. And I like the varied pacing too, you know, action, like you said, and then aftermath. Maria Lawson says, great beginning to where Ellie's journey will be headed next. Am I the only one who doesn't like Dina? I can't quite decide exactly what it is that's bugging me about

[00:14:37] her, but something is just off. What was it that Ellie placed on Joel's grave? It looked like coffee beans to me, but I couldn't tell for sure. It was coffee beans. And I, so I like Dina, but Eric said something on the main pod that resonated with me, which is that I find the way she is with Ellie in this episode a little bit uncomfortable in terms of not being quite queer baiting. But it's hard when you're watching someone who's very in love with someone and the other person's kind of, whether

[00:15:07] deliberately or not, toying with them a little bit. So I'm hoping for a happy ending for them because I think Ellie deserves that. But yeah, I was a bit like, oh, got back with Jesse then. I mean, fair enough. But like, yeah, I mean, uh, this is a little different than game and, and Dina didn't really act like this in the game. And so I'm trying to be like, okay, don't, don't just think of these

[00:15:33] characters as exactly the same and ignore anything that's different. So forget about the game. What did I see? Cause I, cause I, that just got slipped right by me until I heard a take like this. Like, I don't like Dina. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, that was annoying. Um, so what, what does that mean? And I think she, my take on it is that she was high at the dance and she was having fun and flirting

[00:16:00] with everybody right in front of Jesse playing some games, you know, and, uh, she kind of probably had a thing for, uh, Ellie, but maybe it wasn't fully conscious. And so this is all kind of speculation, but maybe the kiss kind of woke something up in her, but she's just not quite sure about it yet, how to label it. Cause you're finding yourself at that young age, you know? And I think deep down,

[00:16:25] she actually does like Ellie, but she doesn't quite understand what's happening yet. And so it comes off as a bit careless with Ellie. Yeah. I think that's it's, it's careless. I think that's a good word for it. Yep. So we'll see how it goes. Yeah. Mark McBurney says cracking episode. I really enjoyed this one, slowed the pace down and really showed how silence can speak the loudest with the bedroom and grave sight scenes that were the best two of the episode and the opening credits changing from Joel and Ellie

[00:16:55] walking to Ellie by yourself is a great little touch. Well said. Yeah, I agree with all that. Elizabeth Schmoopy says I was open to whatever this episode brought. Who knows what comes after death? I broke down when Ellie cried on Joel's shirt. I have one of my dad's shirts hanging in my closet. It's a tissue some days and a rock on others. I'm bummed about the small group of people that were slaughtered. I wanted to know them. They were interesting with the attire and markings. Then the question is who killed them? Mm-hmm. Corden. Corden.

[00:17:27] Children of the corn. Children of the corn. It's, uh, let's see. What did she say? Yeah. The, the, the shirt, I think it's jacket. That's such a good way to show something where you're finding an object of someone and even smelling it like that. It's so powerful. Smell is very evocative. I get annoyed at Peter sometimes because he doesn't smell of anything. Oh, really? Like he doesn't have a smell. Yeah. He doesn't have like a scent or anything. And I'm like,

[00:17:55] you know, if like you went away, I wouldn't have anything to smell. Oh my gosh. You can't leave now. Like he smells great. Get him some cologne. Yeah. I'm just like, he's just like. Really stinky cologne. Yeah. Rub some cheese on him. Maybe he does if I don't notice. Like, but yeah, it's funny. I'm like, you don't really smell that. Like we don't even use detergent that smells that much. That's funny. I think he's an android by the way. Yeah, I think so. Uh, the people who were slaughtered, uh, who killed them. Um,

[00:18:23] I mean, they were talking about leaving war and then when they heard a noise, they were scared. It was the wolves. Right. So yeah, I mean, who knows, but that's what I think. This scene has set apart this series and particularly this season has set, well, actually this season specifically has set a precedent for introducing us to the bad guys from their perspective. First

[00:18:47] of all. So I am very wary of these people. Very wary. All I'm saying. Yeah. Very wary. Not saying a word. Yeah. Okay. Here is a call from Steve Brown. Steve Brown. Hello, the cast of us. This is Steve, and this is going to be for the last of us season two, episode three. I kind of hope that the opening scene does show the other two horses showing up at the Jackson Hole gate. Oh, maybe not because Jackson Hole looks pretty messed up. Wow. That

[00:19:16] scream from Ellie. Gosh, it's got me choked up already. I mean, I wasn't choked up in the last episode, but now, wow. Okay. So we're picking up three months. Good. Get some grieving time. Bella Ramsey is great. It's real complicated because you know, feelings. Okay. I don't want to give anything away here, but because I listened to the spoiler talk. So, but wait, she's saying she didn't talk to Joel on the porch. There is no way this doctor

[00:19:43] believes that Ellie is actually doing well. Okay. So hospitals asked her after the mushroom apocalypse, just let you walk yourself out. You don't have to be wheeled in a wheelchair. Oh, they left her his watch and his gun. Hey, this is Dina, right? Talking to Ellie. That's a really good point. Letting them go ahead and get where they were going before revealing to Ellie, especially since she was in the hospital and would never have lasted out there, but three months, that's a big lead time.

[00:20:10] Oh, Ellie's going to share her cookies with her. Oh, meanwhile, on the Seattle trail, literally, isn't that what the sign said? Seattle trail. Who is this guy? The old guy, the joker. Now I feel bad because the kid has the same scars. So this is something special, right? Oh, good job, Ellie, writing your thoughts down. Oh, the proposal is projected. You know, Ellie's not going to accept that. Neither is Seth. Wow. Robert John Burke. He's been in a lot of stuff. He's a great actor. Really good. He kind of plays the same role, though, in everything he does just about. Not that that's a bad thing. I just have to make

[00:20:40] a quick comment because I'm such a fan of supernatural. And even though Joel's not sitting on a green cooler, it's very supernatural to sit on a cooler and drink a beer. Oh, that's a very dark turn to take there. Doctor, what's Rose's name in this one? Anyway, the doctor saying that some people can't be saved. Wow. Dina has a map. Okay. So through dialogue, we just discovered that Shimmer did make it back. She was one of the horses or maybe later. It doesn't matter. And Jesse is Captain Wyoming. He

[00:21:10] is kind of buff. Okay. So she's visiting Joel's grave and she's leaving coffee beans. I definitely say yes. Guns and Roses over Green Day. But Fleetwood Mac over Frank Zappa? I'm not sure about that one. Yeah, I'm not sure. Oh, so what did Dina find here at the spot where the same cult, that freaky cult got jumped? Oh, somebody did something to these people. I don't think it was Abby and her crew. This was somebody else. But I guess that's what the rest of the season is about, right? So the WLF might be a little larger than what they think.

[00:21:40] A little bit. They have pretty good sized vehicles. All right. On to the rest of the season. So I think they were on Shimmer, right? I think so. Yes. Shimmer lives. Shimmer lives. Thank God. Oh, I love a live, Steve. Who's this guy? The Joker? Oh, now I feel bad. Carly Jackson says, I really like that both Dina and Tommy reminded Ellie that she's not the only person

[00:22:09] who's grieving Joel. The whole town is grieving after that battle. It seems selfish of Ellie to pursue her own revenge. She asked the people of the town to prove that she could count on them and to support her. But she's, she asked the people of the town to prove that she could count on them and support her. But she's proving that they cannot count on her. I wonder if she's going to attract the attention of the wolves and then they will start a whole war with Jackson. Maybe. Who's to say? Right. That would be something.

[00:22:38] That's what people do. A lot of times they, they're self-fulfilling prophecies. Andrea Barka says this episode broke my heart for personal reasons. I can relate to Ellie's grief plus her scream in the beginning. Oh my God. So hard to watch. I'm not a gamer. So all this is new to me. I'm jealous of you. I've seen people upset about Bella playing Ellie, but I think they're a great

[00:23:04] actress and I love Bella. The scene with the coffee beans was so beautiful as for the rest, it was very dark. So dark. I'm not sure I want to watch the rest. I might just let it go to the end then binge it. We'll see. Like to take dark things all concentrated rather than spread it out over a long period of time. Um, the coffee beans. Yeah. We didn't really answer that before, but Joel, Joel loves coffee and, and Ellie knew that that's why she put the coffee beans on his grave. Yeah.

[00:23:33] Yeah. Chantelle Gillies says, Hey, Jason, Lucy and the gang. I knew this would be a harder episode to watch more. So the aftermath and Ellie, it tore my heart when she sat up in her hospital bed, screaming, I could feel her pain. Um, they're an incredible actor, slower episode to be expected, but to be honest as a non gamer, I have no idea what's coming. I'm scared for the girls. I miss Ellie's pun. So here's my pun for fun. Thanks Wyman. Ladies, if he can't appreciate your fruit jokes,

[00:24:01] you gotta let that man go. Bye. Bye. 10 out of 10. It's all now. Gloria Hernan says, Hey, Gloria says, uh, does Craig Mazin have to make us cry every damn episode? I'm writing instead of calling in cause my cat wants to be included in everything. LOL. And no, he wasn't hungry, Jason. He just wanted my attention. I think that's what I said. I said, you wanted your attention. Anyway, another wonderful episode, especially the cinematography

[00:24:29] that cemetery at sunrise was gorgeous. Such a sad one. Catherine O'Hara's gale is standout for me. We'd probably be friends. Yeah. She seems like a good person to be a friend with. I'm not so sure about having her as a therapist. Oh, I kind of, I was like, I sort of wanted. Yeah. I know. I know. Yeah. Yeah. We've got some comments about that that are really interesting later. So I'll save it for that. Uh, I absolutely love Dina too. She's so smart and savvy, very good organizational skills. Yeah.

[00:24:57] The opening credits with one figure there instead of two cry, cry, cry. Mm. Mm. Mm. I would love to see Catherine O'Hara and white Lotus. I know someone. There's so many people I want to see in that. It was, it was your pod or the house of our, they were talking about Christopher guest alumni that they'd like to see in white Lotus because there's been quite a few Christopher guest, Parker Posey and then Molly Shannon and people like that. And I was like, Jennifer O'Hara and Eugene Levy, like they'd be great. Get them all in there.

[00:25:27] Get them all in. Um, Christopher guest would be good. Yeah. Right. Uh, here's a call from Anwen. Anwen. Hey, the cast of us. It's Anwen here. I watched episode two four days late because I was busy frolicking around in middle earth, but I actually didn't get spoiled. Um, I didn't know anything about the game and I had not been spoiled at all about Joel's death.

[00:25:53] I was completely and utterly shocked. I thought up until the very last moment that he's going to get rescued. Jesse's going to show up or Tommy's going to show up. And I just, I was completely speechless. I wasn't even sad or upset. I just was shocked and just couldn't even speak for a while. And it was really only watching episode three that it hit me and all of that awful, sad stuff at the start,

[00:26:22] the aftermath of Joel's death and how everybody deals with it. And there is just nothing sadder than going back into somebody's house and they're gone and all of their stuff is there. Mm-hmm. And as soon as I saw Ellie see the shirts and the jacket, I was like, oh my God, she's going to sniff it. And when she sniffed it and put her face in the jacket, that's just when I lost it. So, so sad. The acting is just outstanding. The other thing that I love in this episode is Catherine O'Hara. She's so incredible. I love Gail as a character.

[00:26:51] She's just so kind of chilled. It's like she's so messed up with everybody else's problems and she just drinks everything away and everything's not a problem. She's just captivating to watch. On a side note, I was in the chemist the other day and the lady behind the counter looked at me like surprised and then her face just broke out in this big grin. And I was like, what? And she goes, oh my God, do you know the movie Home Alone? And I go, yeah. She goes, you look exactly like the mum in Home Alone.

[00:27:21] And I was like, well, I'll take it. I mean, Catherine O'Hara is quite a bit older than I am now, but back in the Home Alone days, she was quite a lot younger. So thanks. Anyway, thanks so much for all that you do. I've really enjoyed listening to the episodes and to the feedback episodes and hearing everybody's perspectives. Bye. Bye. Oh, I'm so glad you and Penny were having a good time down in New Zealand.

[00:27:48] She reminded me that because, you know, she said she didn't know what was going to happen with Joel. And I've been hoping that Karen would come on for one of these feedback episodes. But I'm afraid that she will stop watching because she's been known to do that when something like this happens. Right. Yeah. And so I just texted her a couple days ago. Are you watching The Last of Us Season 2? And she replied, not yet. Doing a rewatch first. It's hard to avoid spoilers.

[00:28:17] And that's it. So I'm just sort of waiting until she gets to that point, you know. Okay. I just didn't even answer. I didn't know what to say. You're like, hey, hon. All right. Have fun. Cool. Let me know. Well, maybe don't. I don't know. She'll be like mad at me. Oh, bless her. Terry from Huntington Beach says,

[00:29:05] You and me both, Terry. You and me both. Yeah. There's a little piece of something for people who maybe think that this was a waste of an episode and we're not getting to the main story. Like, I think they know what they're doing because they didn't spend any time with Dina and Ellie on the way to Seattle. They just got there quick. So they're like, yeah, nothing interesting here. Let's skate over that part and get to the good stuff, you know. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. Lisa Edmondson Walker says,

[00:29:34] It really got me when there was only one figure at the end of the credits. Seeing Ellie grieving at Joel's closet was so sad that it got me teary again. Her speech at the meeting sounded really good, even knowing she was bound to go out after them regardless. They played that so well because it's like, you know that Ellie isn't really believing exactly what she's saying. She's saying, oh, it's not for revenge. And I'm like, yeah, it is. Come on. It's not for revenge. What? No, we don't want to say that. It's not for revenge. Okay.

[00:30:04] Lisa goes on. The non-gamer me is curious about more creepy profit followers that carve curves into their cheeks. Their slaughter was especially disturbing with kids not spared and how many assailants must have been involved. So many wolves, so much armament. Ellie and Dina are heading into a lot. I know. I mean, talk about underestimating. I mean, how would you know? How would you know? Yeah. At this point in the game, there's only like five minutes left of game.

[00:30:33] No, I'm just kidding. Oh, well. Oh, well. Jason from Fort Worth. Here's a call from him. Yay. Hey, what up, guys? This is Jason from Fort Worth, Texas calling in again for The Last of Us, episode three. First, I want to say I agree with you guys about Abby. I totally understand her motivations. I mean, we would all be that way.

[00:31:01] But I wanted to point out that in the previously on, they showed Joel go in and tell the doctor and nurses unhook her. He wasn't going to kill the doctor. And when the doctor refused, he actually raised the scalpel to him as if he was going to use it as a weapon to defend against Joel. Obviously, Abby doesn't know all that. But to me, that told Joel he was a threat and it was time to eliminate that threat as well. So I guess I'm just justifying it a little more in my mind.

[00:31:31] But I get Abby. I do. I really do. Now for this episode. I don't have a lot of feedback. I think it was really good. I think it set up a lot of stuff. I wouldn't call it a filler episode at all. I think it was a set up episode. It was like a resetting of the table, if you will. But I just was wondering. I didn't hear anybody talk about this. They made it a point for Dina to say that she is back with the boyfriend. I forget his name. Jesse. I don't know. Josh or Justin or something. I'm probably totally wrong. It's Jesse.

[00:32:00] And then she throws up later. And I don't know why I thought, is she pregnant? Are they going to try to insinuate? Like, yeah, it could just be that she couldn't take the sight of what she saw. I mean, any one of us could throw up. I'm sure, you know. But that's just where my mind went. I thought I was connecting those two things. So I'm wondering what you guys think of that. Anyway, that's all I got this week. Hope you guys have a great week. Yeah. Have fun. There's like an unwritten rule in film and television that if a woman throws up, she's pregnant. So I was, I shared that concern.

[00:32:30] Actually, I was like, oh, no. Do you think that's lame? That it happens so often? I don't think it's lame, but it feels like it can sometimes be a story dead end for characters on TV. It feels like it can sometimes be like, we don't know what to do with this character. Let's just make them pregnant. And that isn't, I don't think, what's happened here. So if it is that, then clearly it would have been in the game and stuff like that. But I did have the same inkling as Jason. So we'll see.

[00:33:00] Yep. Jason's like, yeah. Yeah. Also, women can throw up without being pregnant. This is the other thing that annoys me. Can no one just like work? That's what I was kind of asking. Yeah. It's like, that's a pretty funny thing. Like I can almost see someone in a, at a protest or something with a sign that says women can throw up without being pregnant. Yeah. It's our right. Especially if you're like me and you get like really barfy on long journeys.

[00:33:30] Chad Johnson says, just listen to the podcast. Great one. I played both games. I really thought the show did a great job keeping gamers and non-gamers alike unsure of the outcome. It still hurts even when you know it's coming. There was one moment I think most overlooked in the wake of the Joel and Jackson events. Jesse and Ellie are in the 7-Eleven talking about Eugene going out like that. Ellie is silently thinking. It is not clear if Eugene got infected or some other accident. However, on second watch, Ellie might be pondering if Eugene was infected.

[00:34:00] What if the cure? Eugene wouldn't have turned and Joel wouldn't have had to put him down. This has to weigh on Ellie. She is alive, but many others aren't. Thanks, Chad.

[00:34:10] I just thought that was such a great point that I don't know if I had fully consciously thought of before that anytime Ellie sees someone get bitten and then turn and die, she's always thinking about how maybe if I'd been able to sacrifice myself, that wouldn't have happened. You know what I mean? So she just got a ton of guilt probably about all that. Oh, 100%. Yeah.

[00:34:39] Chad Johnson. Oh, this was Chad too. I think he, I read these out of order, but he wrote it twice. Anyway, he says, excellent episode. I think your talk about desensitized from show trauma is real. This week, Tommy pausing to tearfully say to Joel, give Sarah my love, impacted me more than the violent death last week. I like the community getting to debate the importance of security over going after who attacked them. Revenge, justice, security, all are valid, but what can you reasonably pull off?

[00:35:08] 16 is a big commitment. Two can recon and report back, learn more, then decide. Also in this world, what makes you think they're still alive? They almost died scouting Jackson. Don't get me wrong. Love the direction the story is taking, but love how these shows make you question the actions, options, and choices. Yep. Yep. For sure. Agree. All right. Here's another call from Sean in Virginia. Hello, cast of us. This is Sean again in Virginia.

[00:35:36] Just had a few comments on the episode before we talk about the chest tube, but I thought that the opening credits were really cool. If you wait until the very end, you see that the cordyceps only forms one silhouette. So no Joel. I know. So sad. But I thought that was really neat addition to this episode. A couple more thoughts. I thought the cook totally redeemed himself much more than with just a steak sandwich.

[00:36:08] One question for the group. So Dina made Ellie cookies. I'm assuming that she used flour. Is all flour safe now? Because that was the main vector for how the cordyceps fungus got around, right? Or are they making their own flour? I don't know. Would love your thoughts on that. Corn. Corn. I thought the scene at the graveyard was amazing. The lighting was incredible. Cinematography was incredible. It felt to me the most gamey.

[00:36:36] Like I can imagine this being a cut scene in a game. But it also felt to me like it was the most Western. Like something out of a spaghetti Western. Like a Clint Eastwood movie. I thought it was beautiful. Yeah. All right. So just moving to the chest tube aspect. So Ellie, after she gets kicked in the ribs multiple times by I think Manny, but she's then in the hospital and she has a chest tube going into her right chest. This is perfect. Right up my alley. I'm a pulmonologist.

[00:37:04] So it's probably one of two things. Either it's a hemothorax or more likely a pneumothorax. So a hemothorax is when blood, likely from trauma, fills up in the pleural space. So the pleural space is this space in between the lung and the chest wall. And it's typically, you know, there's not typically much in there. Maybe a little bit of fluid. But it can be filled with fluid for multiple reasons.

[00:37:34] But hemothorax, obviously it's filled with blood. And it typically happens because of trauma, like getting kicked in the chest multiple times. I didn't see any blood in the chest tube. So I doubt that's what it was. It was probably a pneumothorax. So got kicked in the ribs multiple times. And then that led to rib fractures, which likely did puncture her lung. And then air that's in the lung starts to leak out into that pleural space. And that causes a pneumothorax.

[00:38:04] Typically, when we have patients with a pneumothorax in the hospital, you just kind of watch it unless it's large enough or causing significant symptoms that would require drainage from a chest tube. So she may have developed what's called a tension pneumothorax, which is when so much air and pressure builds up in that pleural space and it can't escape anywhere that it causes collapse of that lung.

[00:38:29] And potentially pushing on the internal organs like the heart and the blood vessels. And that usually causes severe hypotension or low blood pressure and shock. And so probably before she got to that point, they noticed that she had a pneumothorax and put a chest tube in. But hopefully that was helpful. All right. Cheers, everybody. Bye-bye. That's so great, Sean. Thank you for calling in on that. I love it. Yeah. Oh, my God.

[00:38:54] And it makes you, I mean, of course, realize that they're doing some research on the show. So, and it's, I think, interesting thing to me, I think they gave Ellie this problem so that she would have some time to sit there and think about it and stew on it and not be able to do anything.

[00:39:16] And also give Abby and her crew time to get back to Seattle if they did get back there, you know? So that's why they built, otherwise they could have just had Ellie go after them right away. But then they had to explain, well, if she's in such bad shape, then how could she even do any damage at all? So they have that scene with her fighting with Jessie. What were they doing? She was like punching a punching bag or something like that. Yeah, she's doing a kind of boxing training.

[00:39:45] He said she'd be back in shape in a couple weeks or something. I fucking love a bit of medical grossness. We just binged the pit and, oh my God. I haven't watched that. Everyone's talking about it. It's actually so gross that I had to cover my eyes at certain points. Oh, no. Like, you never cover your eyes. And I'm like, there's some stuff that I don't want to see. But it's great. Really good. Really good. One thing I just want to mention, so he asked about the cookies again.

[00:40:11] And if it really is corn, that means that Dina gave Ellie corn cookies with raisins. I think that would be grounds for ending the friendship. I'm just going to be real here. I don't care if I get cancelled. Cookies with raisins in are fucking disgusting. And then corn cookies with raisins is even worse, man. No, no, no, my friends. No, no, no. That's some nonsense. I would be like, get out of my house immediately. Why did you come over here? I ate some cookies earlier. I have cookies here.

[00:40:39] You will see they are chocolate with normal flour in them. Yeah, damn. They were pretty good. It's quite hot though, so too hot for cookies. Oh God, a corn cookie with raisins in it. I'm going to throw up. Oh no. Oh no, Lucy's pregnant. Oh shit. I've just doubled my problems. Becky Anderson says, great episode. Bella Ramsey really brought it.

[00:41:05] Ellie's grief when at Joel's closet was so real and how well she composed and delivered her speech was so strong. I really like how Seth, I think that's his name, stood up for her and also helped her and Dina out with the plan to head to Seattle. I'm intrigued by the group introduced in this episode and what happened to them. That poor little girl. Very cool seeing the ruins of Seattle. One of my favorite things with post-apocalypse shows is seeing what the landscape looks like after time. Me too.

[00:41:29] I agree with others' thoughts that they got there fast, but I believe that's just going to give us time for more backstory on the wolves and more relationship building with Dina and Ellie. I raise my cup of coffee to Joel. May he rest in peace. Aw. Raise a cup for Joel. Cheers. Cup of Joel for Joel. Cheers. Yeah. One thing I really loved about The Last of Us game from the start was how overgrown everything was.

[00:41:55] And of course, you know, I was already pretty far into Walking Dead at that point. I'm like, oh yeah, Walking Dead can't really do that because it takes money to make that happen. But HBO has money, so they do do it and it looks awesome. Peter said that the other day. He's like, the show is so verdant. It's so rich compared to what we've seen in Apocalypse before. And I'm like, yeah, it's really nice. And it makes sense. It really does. Yeah, because it's been what, 25 years? Just nature reclames the earth, you know? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:42:23] Jennifer Ringham says, all the scenery in this show is just so beautiful. There you go. And I love a good post-apocalyptic ghost city shot. Me too. That's another thing I love, just the way the cities look. There's something so satisfying about seeing whole cities swallowed by nature. I really like the council scene and getting more insight into how decisions are made in Jackson. Although I know we were all thinking this is just a formality. Ellie's going to go into Seattle and a vote isn't going to stop her. Let's get going already.

[00:42:52] Who do you think the three yes votes were? I think, well, it was Tommy, Maria, and do we have any guesses? We don't really know the other people, right? Corn guy? No, he didn't vote. I don't know. He couldn't vote. I don't know. Maybe he voted yes because he had no idea what they were talking about. He's like, yes, what? Whatever. Anyway, I like the episode, but I hope the rest are a little faster paced. And I really hope Ellie doesn't lose her humanity on this quest for justice slash revenge.

[00:43:19] I bet you there will be some faster paced ones for sure, but maybe not all of them. Yeah. I think there's got to be a mix. Yeah. All right. Here's another call from Annette. Annette. Hello, guys, and the lovely Lucy. Oh, hi. This is Annette in Chattanooga, Tennessee, calling in about The Last of Us, episode three.

[00:43:44] It was such a good episode because it was some more character building for Ellie and Dina. Not real happy with Dina fooling around with the emotions of Ellie. But I guess we'll see if something progresses with their relationship as it goes on in their trip. But I wasn't very happy with her asking her all the little questions like, you know, who kisses the best? Well, you're a lesbian. You know.

[00:44:13] All that stuff. The game playing is just ridiculous. Agreed. But I wanted to talk about when Ellie put the coffee beans on Joel's grave. I thought that was just a little note to the first time that she tasted the coffee and told him that it smelled like burnt shit. And she couldn't believe that Starbucks used to charge for this.

[00:44:36] And we see him several different times, even when they are in Jackson, where he's just sitting and drinking coffee while he's working. So that was something I feel that was special between him and her that nobody else knew about. And she just left the beans as kind of a peace offering to him. I'm not really sure we know why specifically, but that's my thought.

[00:45:03] It's more meaningful than flowers to Joel coffee beans. One of the things I did notice that really baffled me, and I've got to figure out what they're doing. If you watch the credits for all the episodes prior to three, at the end they show two figures walking together. And it was Joel and Ellie.

[00:45:28] Now, on this week's, I had to go back and rewind it and watch it a couple of times. But now it's only a silhouette of one person, which is Ellie. So, and they even took Pedro's name out of the credits. I was assuming he was going to come back in some flashbacks and things like that. So that really bothered me, but I guess adios to Pedro. But anyway, still loving the show.

[00:45:55] If you didn't see that in the credits, go back and watch it. But loving it, looking forward to seeing where this journey takes them. And I really want Dina to quit acting like a teenager with Ellie, because it's really pissing me off. You guys have a good day. I'm looking forward to listening to you on the podcast. Bye. Bye. Don't get bit. I love that, Annette. Yeah. Oh my God.

[00:46:21] Very vivid memories of my dad singing the Chattanooga choo-choo song when I was a kid. Matt King says, After splashing the series budget in episode two, a quieter episode this week, but another good one. It's good to see Ellie and Dina moving out from Jackson and on to Seattle, but I was surprised at how quickly they got there. I thought it would be at least another episode first. So it's now at least three months since Joel departed the lodge.

[00:46:47] Presumably Manny, Abby and the rest have forgotten about Ellie's empty threats of revenge, so we'd not be particularly preparing for her to come. It appears the wolves are significantly stronger than first thought, so possibly a good idea not to waste another 14 people on the expedition who would inevitably be killed. Is that the last we see of Jackson for a while? Too many interesting characters there to just leave it behind, you would think. I agree. I think they've bedded us into Jackson a bit. I don't think it's going to be the last we see of it.

[00:47:15] Yeah, I really don't know what to expect for the next episode, and I guess I don't want to speculate too much since I know about the game, but it could be any number of things. I mean, I for one, I'm hoping that we'll find out the outcome of the corn debate. Yeah, we need all episode. Oh my God, imagine. Then we'd have people complaining. Just this corn guy, like hey. Deborah Ulmer says, Hi, cast of us team. First to answer Jason and Ben's question from my feedback last week.

[00:47:44] She mentioned that she'd been on panels, I think. She says, I'm a co-organizer for a community geek organization called Color of Fandom. As a part of it, we host panels for area cons in our local library. Independently, I've also moderated panels at Dragon Con in Atlanta, including a few Walking Dead Universe fan ones. No! Very cool, you're a fellow moderator, like me and Ben. That's amazing. And did you moderate any panels? Never. Never, I did interviews. What a wasted opportunity, I'm sorry. Fucking COVID, man.

[00:48:15] Fucking COVID. But yeah, no. God did my interviews, but yeah, never moderated. As for this episode, I found it much more emotional for me than the previous one. It was nice to see them tackling grief in that way. The Tommy and Ellie scenes were so powerful and heart-wrenching. Her wailing in the opening brought me to tears. I love Dina. She's my favorite new character of the season. She's good for Ellie, the way she talks to and motivates her.

[00:48:41] It's interesting, because I agree, it felt kind of shitty of Dina to kind of toy around, it felt like, with Ellie. But overall, I really do like Dina a lot, too. And she's, I think, a standout character. She's a kid. Yeah, she's a kid. We'll see. I mean, it could go either way from here, but I'm team Dina right now, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Seth really surprised me so much that I was second-guessing him and thought, is he being serious in the council meeting?

[00:49:10] But when Dina said she has help from someone to get her and Ellie out of town, I guess that it was him. That was a neat little three-episode arc with redemption. Y'all have a good one, and take care. I love that his character did that. It's really interesting. I like it a lot. But, you know, we spend a lot of time on these shows thinking about how do you redeem yourself? How do you come back from doing shitty things or thinking shitty things? And, yeah, I don't know. I'm okay with Seth. He's trying. He's trying.

[00:49:40] Here's a call from Robin. Hey, y'all. It's me. I just have a couple things to say about last week. I was really interested and kind of heartened to hear Lucy's take on Joel's death. I hadn't really been spoiled, spoiled, but kind of spoiled by all the big death coming headlines that were out there.

[00:50:02] And I figured it had to be Joel because I, you know, had read that one of the themes was, you know, unfinished business and grief and, you know, things left unsaid. And I figured, well, it had to be him if that's what they were going to go with as a theme. Because, you know, Ellie, she's the one that has to go get Abby. But also I wasn't really shocked.

[00:50:28] And I really didn't react as hard as I probably should have because I think I was kind of guarding my heart a little bit. Because I have some personal experience with things left unsaid and unfinished and the grief that comes after that. Although this week, the grief scenes really got to me. I'm not going to lie. Those were Tommy and Ellie's grief scenes were really hard. Been there more times than I'd like to think about.

[00:50:56] And they were just, they were really, really touching to me. And I cried hard. But then, you know, then we've got our little Dina. I really like her. Seems like she's an airhead, but she's the one who's prepared, you know, gets the supplies and the map and does all that. Then they're at the gate and I'm thinking, okay, Seth, yeah, good man.

[00:51:19] You know, you've got that one more chance to sort of, you know, make up for what you said and the ugliness that you showed them. And then, of course, the, you know, being at the cemetery, again, been there, hate that. But then I was thinking, where do they get coffee beans? Do they, does somebody grow coffee in the Northern Hemisphere? I feel like after all these years, the coffee beans would be kind of really awful. But then I, the council scene was interesting.

[00:51:48] Loved the little town hall thing that they were having and people with their differing views. Pretty sure Tommy and Maria voted yes on the group going out. Jesse, obviously, no. And we don't know enough about the others to know who else might have voted yes. But, you know, I guess it doesn't really matter. Eight to three is kind of a big gap. The Scar people are kind of interesting.

[00:52:13] I had to laugh about that one, too, because, of course, there's a fundamentalist religious group that's kind of like de-regur for any given apocalypse. But how big are they? How big is that group? And are they at war with the wolves? Or is that just one of those things where the wolves kill anybody that's coming around their territory? I don't, I don't really know. I was a little bit kind of mad at Dina, though. Because why is she flirting and teasing Ellie? She knows Ellie is a lesbian.

[00:52:40] And she knows that the kiss was not nothing. Like, you know, they're trying to pretend. And there she's laying in the tent right next door in that little camisole, knowing that Ellie probably is really in love with her and just teasing her. And that seemed really mean, you know. I don't know why. Is she just trying to figure it out for herself? Probably. I think she's kind of like a seventh grade boy. She like likes Ellie. But she's not really sure how to go there and how to do that. Yeah, that's what I think.

[00:53:10] Holy shit, that's a lot of wolves. Probably they shouldn't have let Abby and her group get back home like Dina suggested was a good idea. That was probably not good. But then the other thing I have to laugh about from last week and the week before is the idea of Joel being handsome.

[00:53:27] All I could think of whenever Abby mentioned it was these nurses in the middle of this carnage and trauma and horror and the doctor laying there with his brains all over the floor describing him to Abby going, yeah, he's about six feet tall, dark hair, you know, kind of ruggedly built, about 60 years old, mustache. Oh, and the other one going, yeah, and he's really handsome. He's handsome for sure.

[00:53:57] He was fine. In the middle of all that trauma. That just struck me so funny that that's one of the things that they would have described. Anyway, love you guys. Bye. Especially to Abby, like we're so sorry about your dad, Abby, but also he was handsome. You should have seen this guy though. He was fine. Freak alert. Freak alert. That's funny. Thanks, Robin. Good to hear from you. Oh, I love Robin. Amber says, hi, The Last of Us team. A few notes to share this week.

[00:54:25] Number one, Ben read my stream of consciousness email last week and Lucy nominated him for an Oscar. I second that nomination, Ben. Bravo. Two, y'all had a discussion last week about how with a community the size of Jackson, Abby would know that this Joel was the right Joel. The nurses said he was handsome. Imagine if there's a Joel that turns up in a future episode and he's like stunning. Like he's a model. And they're like, oh, it must have been that one. Amber goes on.

[00:54:52] Number three, add me to the list of folks who were more emotional during this week's episode than last. Ellie crying into Joel's jacket was so heartbreaking and impactful because that's a feeling many of us probably know. Next week will be five years since my grandmother died from COVID and I'm welling up just now. I'm welling up now just thinking about how simultaneously difficult and comforting it was going through the things she left behind. Such a powerful scene. Oh, I'm sorry, Amber. That sucks. Number four, I'm not here to defend Seth exactly, but I can give him grace.

[00:55:22] I like to imagine that he's the type who thought and said something terrible because he had never been challenged to consider how terrible it was. Maybe once he was shown by Joel and possibly Maria and Tommy that his actions were unacceptable, he reflected and gained understanding. That doesn't excuse what he said, but it would show growth. That also doesn't mean Ellie has to forgive him to be determined. Bye. I think that's really important, Amber. It doesn't mean Ellie has to forgive him. Like we can both can be true. And you know what?

[00:55:49] I'm thinking a little bit about Daryl Dixon and Merle Dixon and some of the challenging. Particularly Merle, who'd never really showed much improvement. But yeah, the kind of journeys they go on. Not that Daryl ever said anything as bad as what Seth said, but you know, room for growth. Yeah. And just thinking about being in a house where a loved one passed and all their stuff around makes me feel sad, of course.

[00:56:19] Oh God. Yeah. Cleaning out my friend's house after she passed away was like a nightmare. Nightmare. I wasn't there for a lot of it, but yeah, it's really hard because everything's emotional and it's someone's whole life and all of their things. And yeah, it's really, it's weird. I have this, my grandpa used to wear a puffy sleeveless vest and I have it and I wear it around sometimes. And now it makes me feel good. Like I still have a piece of him with me, you know?

[00:56:47] Was that, ah, shit, grandpa. Yes. Yeah. Amazing. Yep. All right. Rinaldi Kaleek says, in the words my 16 year old self and still emotionally raw from something, but wanting to project toughness is all right. Translation. It was all right. Okay. C plus. Okay. Obviously I'm feeling like Ellie. I'm hurting and trying to be tough to cover it up. The acting was phenomenal in this episode.

[00:57:14] But Bella Ramsey definitely makes me feel all kinds of emotions when I see Ellie struggling to deal with Joel's death. I totally agree. They were so good. Dina, my favorite character was fantastic and did a good job bouncing between being heartbroken over Joel's death and seeing Ellie in pain to her usual goofy, silly self. All the characters did well in their smaller roles. I'm glad they were goofy because it would just be a bummer if they were just grieving all the time. Maybe that's another reason why they gave it three months too.

[00:57:44] Yeah. The cast, the casting is great for the show. Kudos to Craig Mazin and Neil Druckmann on that. But the episode is a setup episode, which isn't bad, but the first episode was also a setup episode. Maybe I'll open up and actually be more honest and tell Gail I really like this episode if some metaphorical fireworks go off in episode four. Rinaldi's subconscious. That's a lot of feedback for someone that thought the episode was aight. Hey, my subconscious cut me some slack. Jeez. Oh, Rinaldi.

[00:58:14] Always love hearing your thoughts about stuff. Here's Carissa. Hey, this is Carissa from PDX. Talking about The Last of Us, episode three, season two. Hey, Jason and Lucy. Hello. Atal. Well, it looks like Dean and Ellie have bitten off way more than they can chew. I cannot stand Manny's face, which is unfortunate because I love this actor as a Falcon in the MCU,

[00:58:44] which means he's doing an excellent job because I'm believing the evil energy. I'm very intrigued by Gail. And her attitude. I guess because she's the only one that can see through Ellie. I mean, it's kind of rubbing me the wrong way, but also like she can see through her. And I respect it because Ellie is a liar. She's right. Yeah, I feel the same. Both things. It just makes me want to know more about Eugene.

[00:59:11] And I hope we'll be getting onto that soon because I feel like there's a connection there. I'm also very interested about this cult group. I don't know a lot about the lore. I've never played the game. And I don't want to really want to look up a ton right now because I don't want to be spoiled at this point. But I'm looking forward to learning more about them and their relationship with the wolves. And Dina throwing up.

[00:59:41] There aren't a ton of reasons why characters with uteruses just randomly throw up. Now, granted, she was smelling a dead body, but she commented, this never happened before. I'll just leave it there. I have suspicions. Okay. Bye. I do like that they reference the spell because they don't, I feel like, do that enough in The Walking Dead. And you'd think, I mean, maybe after all this time, they'd just be used to it.

[01:00:08] But the smell of corpses, rotting corpses, is pretty bad from what I understand. I guess I've never actually smelled it myself. Right. I could see someone throwing up. I don't know. It's TV shorthand. Just saying. And she also mentioned she doesn't want to look anything up. And that is kind of one of the bummer things about this show. If you haven't played the game and you just want to get a deeper hit of it,

[01:00:36] that's why a lot of people listen to the podcast because they want more engagement. But you don't want to be spoiled. So it's hard to look anything up and not get spoiled. That's why we try our best to have this whole main segment be not spoilery for the game. Lisa Moreno says, I thought this episode was a great, well-paced episode considering last week's Stab to the Heart. Seeing Ellie walk through the empty house and then smelling Joel's clothing really broke my heart. I did see an interview with them about this scene. They said those were real tears.

[01:01:06] When the girls stopped at Joel's grave and Ellie put down the coffee beans, I wasn't sure what that meant or the significance of that. My assumption is he always loved his morning coffee. And since it was morning, maybe that's what that was. I remember him having coffee in season one. She thought it was really gross. Perhaps it's a nod to that. I can tell that this episode is going to be a setup for next week's episode, which I'm pretty sure is going to start popping off. I was kind of hoping that Tommy was going to go with them, but I can see for the show purposes they needed him to stay behind.

[01:01:34] I have a feeling that we will not be in Jackson anymore for the season. I know that the wolves were camping out, or at least had a station at the Space Needle, by the way. They kind of panned away from it and then panned back to it. One of the saddest things was not seeing Pedro Pascal's name in the opening credits. I'm absolutely loving this episode, even though I had my heart torn to pieces last week. I really wish I could play the game. I'm hoping that after this season, I can get my hands on a PlayStation and play. Yeah. I hope you can too, Lisa. So good.

[01:02:03] It's one of my all-time favorite games, for sure. Good to hear from you, Lisa. Alicia Stout says, I really liked this episode a lot, and I couldn't help but think of another Game of Thrones comparison, this time with Bella, not Pedro. When Ellie was standing in front of the Jackson Council, giving her reasons not to go to Seattle and kill Abby, totally reminded me of Liana Mormont. As you recall, Liana stood in front of the Lords of the North and spoke of respect, honor, and loyalty to the Starks.

[01:02:31] She wasn't reading from a piece of paper, but yeah. Yeah. Ellie stood in front of the Council to seek justice, revenge, and the love for Joel and others they lost. Both characters are way tougher than most of the adults around them, super loyal to the people they care about, and refuse to be treated like kids. Bella proves with both characters that being a true leader isn't about how old you are, it's about how hard you're willing to fight for the people you love. Maybe that's one reason why they picked Bella for this part,

[01:03:00] because there's a similar spirit there. I also wanted to quickly mention that the cinematography in this episode was beautiful. The scenes with the girls walking through the forest and in Seattle gave me major Walking Dead vibes with the empty cars, overgrown weeds, and crumbling buildings. Who were those new people? Settlers? They all had strange marks or scars in their cheeks and seemed terrified of the wolves. They said they were seeking distance from war. That's what they said.

[01:03:30] That's what he was telling his child, I guess. How devastating it was for Ellie and Dina to walk right into that slaughter. Awful. Well, it seems that puns are kind of phasing out this season, but here's my pun of the week. I couldn't figure out how to play cards in the jungle, but then I found a cheetah. I like that. I like that. There was an interview. Kit Harrington interviewed Bella Ramsey in InterviewMagazine.com.

[01:03:57] Yeah, and they spoke a lot about their time on Game of Thrones and the psychic toll of stardom, and I thought it was really sweet to have the two of them interview one another. Yeah. Well, him to interview them, but yeah, it was nice. I mean, the thing that stood out to me was Bella said that they felt guilty because Kit Harrington forgot his lines and Bella was mouthing the lines to him. So funny. I don't want to. Yeah.

[01:04:29] Okay, here's a call from Jenny Ryan. Jenny Ryan. Jenny. Hello, this is Jenny from Saskatoon calling in about The Last of Us. I'm lying in the dark next to a sleeping child, which is why I sound quiet. Anyway, I just wanted to say something that probably some people already know, but some people maybe don't know, but then you're going to hear me talk about it and you're going to be like, oh yeah, that's true.

[01:04:59] So in classic children's literature or any book featuring a young person, often the trope is in order for that young person to become a fully formed adult, they have to get rid of their parents. So sometimes the parents are just like workaholics who are never around. Sometimes the parents get remarried and disappear.

[01:05:29] Sometimes the parents are abducted by aliens. Sometimes they die. They often die. Traditionally they die. And it's really the way that authors or writers are able to take those kids and thrust them into a journey toward adulthood. And so if we think about Ellie being immature and sort of like, everyone's like, really? She's 19? Because she seems like a kid. So at the beginning of the series, if she seems sort of young,

[01:05:59] this is how they're going to get her to grow up fast is they had to get rid of Joel. So there you go. We're just following the trends of classic literature in the Western world. Okay. Bye. Yeah. I like that. Did you ever go to that website? Where they talk about all the tropes. Which website? I forget which site it is, but it has every trope you can think of

[01:06:27] and lists of shows and books and movies that follow that trope with examples. TV tropes. Yeah, yeah. TV tropes I think is it. Amazing. It's really fun to look through, but there's so many tropes. You can't avoid the tropes, honestly. Hang on. I'm going to look up women barfing. Do it. Yeah, look it up. Let's see. Let's see. Let's see what it says. Morning sickness. Pregnant women in fiction will often vomit at random parts of the day.

[01:06:57] Yeah, it's a thing. It's a thing. Yeah. Yeah. There's a... A sure way to detect pregnancy is puking in the morning. More efficient even than missing a period. Just saying. Just saying. Who is next? Billy Thompson. Hello, hello. Hope you guys are well. Great start to this episode. The scene of Ellie going into Joel's house and smelling his clothes really got me. I really enjoyed the council scene too.

[01:07:25] Getting to see the different types of people in Jackson was good. The people that voiced opinions were from both sides of the political spectrum and how they bump heads even in the post-apocalypse is interesting. Unfortunately, I did get taken out of it a little this episode when Ellie and Dina were discussing a plan to go to Seattle. It seemed very upbeat and almost like they were excited to be going on an adventure. It just felt a little silly as it wasn't a more serious conversation. Rather than joking about the words Snoqualmie... Snoqualmie? Snoqualmie?

[01:07:55] Snoqualmie pass or something, yeah. Snoqualmie... Snoqualmie. And shooting her damn ass off. Yeah, I just... I think, like I was saying before, they want to be careful not to have this show just be a huge bummer. And I think it's a good move. Yeah. There's only so much we can take, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, but I understand why you would think that. Like, oh, shouldn't they be a little more upset? Jess Jones says, my live reactions in text. Well, shit. They got me crying

[01:08:25] before the opening credits. Glad I came prepared. See the chat Monday night and there's a martini glass. That's it all. It's okay. I've been needing to cry and haven't been able to lately. So here we go again. I felt like that too watching shows sometimes. Okay. Small time jump. Woo. Look at those guns. I was like, what does she mean? Like Joel's gun? No, she means Jesse's guns. I think I might have a crush on my namesake because she's Jess. Wait, so Ellie's been in the hospital

[01:08:54] for three months. Did they practically kill her with the beat down? Damn. I mean, they did some damage. Yeah. I guess the whole town loved Joel. It's like a memorial for a famous person. Oh, see, they have cows, no horse meat steak sandwiches here. That's good. But I still wonder where are the other two fucking horses? I guess they came back. They did. Sorry, I had to because it was also something I said aloud while watching last week. Tommy's such a dad now. Was Tommy's little kid and I didn't even notice.

[01:09:23] Who are these scar-faced people? Okay, some weird apocalyptic cults. Inside joke story time and just as I was thinking, dude, nobody cares about your corn, the council basically said the same thing. That's the time my mom would have yelled, you wrote the script if I still lived at home and got to watch stuff with my mom like I used to. We used to yell that phrase at each other whenever one of us would say the line with a character or we stated something that was shown or acted out by a character. Obviously, on first watch of something, we had clairvoyance in the family.

[01:09:54] Asked me to tell my stolen car story one day. I don't understand what that means but you have to tell us. Preach, slow clap for Seth. A well-written plea by Ellie. Even Dina is clearly impressed but we all know she's full of it. Ah, come on, council. Seth looks like he's ready to go. I'm guessing a smaller party will go out for justice and I just love, love, love Catherine O'Hara. All right, Seth, he's trying. I want to play this game while riding a horse with my bestie through a beautiful forest. Wow, the cinematography is superb.

[01:10:23] Uh-oh, the kiss. Six? What was six? Oh man, that's like saying meh. Oh, that's what she gave ready to the kiss. Poor Dina. What a blow to the ego. The cult freaks got ambushed by something bigger than five or six fireflies. Welcome to Seattle. Oh shit, looks like an army to me. I'm scared. And now, season three, episode five of Friends. Okay, bye. Bye. Enjoy Friends. Enjoy Friends. All right, here is Sam

[01:10:52] who is a therapist of one type or another. So she's going to give her, yeah, her take. Hey guys. Yeah, I really like Gail. I think she's doing a great job as a therapist. I mean, I can only speak as a therapist myself. But like, I really like her character and I usually don't find any portrayals of therapists to be in any way accurate. And maybe some of the backlash she's getting is it's because we're seeing more

[01:11:21] of the skill that comes along with therapists rather than the book knowledge. And like, at least in my grad school, they taught us posture saying, how do you feel about that? I mean, it's really dumb. I mean, I get it, but it's really old school and you find out really quickly in your clinical work that that's not going to help most people. And also, I think there's also the stereotype and the misbelief, the misconception that when you go to therapy,

[01:11:50] people or the therapists are there to hold your hand and make you feel better. That's not accurate. We're here to dig out the truth, the pains, change things so that you do feel better. You know, it's a painful thing to go through and you're not usually going to feel worse before you feel better. So I think people are more like, oh, she's so out there. And so it's like, no, I mean, being straightforward, transparent, calling it out as it is is respecting the other person.

[01:12:20] And it's also knowing like your truths are not the hardest thing this person has ever seen. And it's saying it out loud. So, you know, she's, I find her to be very good. Like, she's a little, like straightforward, transparent, going to call it out, but she's also not going to push Ellie. Like she pokes at her a little bit in the hospital, trying to get her to stop avoiding her grief and her regret about Joel. And Ellie does not follow her at all. So she retreats. She uses humor, like I do too,

[01:12:50] and says like, you know, kind of a way of saying like, I know you're not okay. You know you're not okay. And I'm here for when that changes for you. Because she can't help Ellie if Ellie doesn't want it. And that kind of goes to what she says to Tommy later, where she says like, some people just can't be saved. That's true. Because people have to let you save them or save themselves. And, or a combination of either one of those. Ellie doesn't want anyone's help. Like she asked for it as far as having this big group

[01:13:19] go and kill people, but she doesn't want help from people processing her grief. We see her like, not even wanting to cry in front of Dina. And so like, she's avoiding and avoidance and denial are two very different things. Like she knows Joel is dead. She knows this hurts. She tapped into it lightly in the house and immediately sealed that off and went into like, mm-hmm, let's, let's go. Let's go and kill these people. She's legitimately like running away from all of her grief triggers right now in Jackson, Wyoming. So yeah,

[01:13:49] it's going to end poorly. Little nerdy caveat. I just want to interrupt there. I, I especially love that part where, because if you don't address, uh, these sort of emotions that you're having about something really traumatic and you just shove them down, then they just live in a, in an unconscious or subconscious place and they run, run what you do without you even realizing what's happening. Right. That's what I think. And that's kind of what Sam was saying. I think you got to process through it, which is painful,

[01:14:17] but then they don't do that as much anymore. You got to go through it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, as far as I'll continue what she has to say, cause I think it's really fascinating, but as far as the type of therapist that Gail is, I think that straightforwardness is awesome. Um, and I think just the way she is would be perfect for a lot of people, but I think different types of people like different types of therapists. I've had a few myself. I preferred the ones that were maybe a little more empathetic and where it made me feel

[01:14:45] seen in a way that felt like an ally versus more of a challenging thing, at least in balance with the challenging. I do like challenging, but I feel like there's maybe a little bit of a lack of empathy on Gail's part for my tastes. But I wonder if she's adapting that to the clients, to the person. It could be. Yeah. I don't know. Cause we've seen her with Joel and Ellie, um, who are, I don't think they would cope well with a more softly, softly approach. So maybe it's testament to her. You're probably right. Yeah. But I think you're right about that.

[01:15:14] But on the other, I mean, maybe this is a separate thing, but with Ellie, um, she's saying, you know, this person can't be helped. And I think the wisdom in that is if you're not wanting help, then you can't really be helped. Yeah. You have to want it. Yeah. But maybe if she tried some other angles or something before she came to that conclusion, I guess she just knows she's been doing it for 40 years. Yeah. Gail's like, eh, whatever. All right. Here's the rest of Sam's message.

[01:15:44] Grief specialist here. Uh, unfortunately, um, the five stages of grief by Kula Ross was actually based on a study for terminally ill patients. And while it is very informative for patients who are dying, it actually has very little relevancy for people who are still alive. So people who are dealing with the death of a loved one, that it's, it's not accurate at all. Um, it's, it was a debunked stereotype, debunked theory for that. In fact,

[01:16:12] we know with the people left behind that grief is largely nonlinear and no two people grieve the same. So really the approach to it is, um, at least the approach that I was trained in is you essentially have someone sit in their grief, like that famous quote, sit in the shit, sit in the grief until they develop a tolerance to that pain. You cannot make it go away. It will never go away because the grief is the love and caring you had for that person made painful

[01:16:42] because you can no longer give that love to the person and they can no longer give, and you can no longer receive it from that person. So the idea of like going through stages to acceptance, that's not a thing. And we see that with people like, Oh my gosh, my loved one died 10 years ago and I'm still crying. Yeah. Well, you have grief anniversaries. You have memories. Grief is nonlinear. You're always going to miss this person. It's always going to hurt, but the work and sitting in it is you develop a tolerance to it and your brain learns how to make

[01:17:11] sense of a world where this person doesn't exist anymore. So it, I mean, minimum takes a year. If you're doing really in-depth grief work, it's really hard work. It's really doable. She can't avoid. And that's what we're seeing Ellie do. So she's avoiding that pain so hard and it's going to be bad. Cause the only way out of grief is through it. And that's where you develop the tolerance. It will always be with you. You will always miss this person. It just won't, you won't break down randomly hysterically in a

[01:17:40] grocery store when you see their favorite cereal. Like that's essentially the best you can kind of hope for with this. And it's a very natural part of us. Joel's death is pretty gruesome. So like, that's a painful way to remember someone. Okay. I'll try. I didn't want to go there. Okay. I did love that. She was day drinking and cracking open those beers and razzing the kids. She's like, yeah, these guys suck. I call it right here in front of everyone.

[01:18:10] I enjoy that character. And then I just as a side note, I really liked Dina being our post-apocalyptic Hermione. So how would you guys have voted in the council meeting? Yay or nay to go after the other group? I lean towards nay, but if somebody made a really good argument, I might vote. I think I'm a nay. Yeah. I'm a nay. I'm a naysayer. Thanks, Sam. That was really good. That was so interesting.

[01:18:39] And I think Gail is iconic sitting in the outfield. Yes. She's cheering on the kids by number because she clearly doesn't have a fucking clue what their names are. Like, yeah, it's great. And she said something like, I'm a drink and smoke and I'm all fucked up or something like that. Yeah. I sort of wonder, yeah, what do therapists think about that? Is that okay? Well, they called it. They were like, she doesn't have anyone to put her thoughts to. It's all, kind of the buck stops with her.

[01:19:08] She doesn't get therapy. So, yeah. Yeah. Poor Gail. Poor Gail. Tam from Perth says, hello friends. Gosh, these producers are so clever. I love this. Even as the previously on the last of us review, I felt right back to the emotion of last week's episode ready for the aftermath. Thank God for time jumps. And I think in this case it was necessary. Otherwise the whole episode could have just been too much with no moving forward for the story. My main reaction was to how Ellie returned to the house after all that time in hospital.

[01:19:38] It was so foreign because usually after being in hospital, someone picks you up and helps you settle in at home. So my maternal instinct kicked in as we watched this little lass slowly walk into somewhere she knows well, because she did live there at one point, but she doesn't enter the room that shows it was once hers. I love how we could almost feel Joel's presence as Ellie came into his room. It was orderly and masculine and almost solid like he was just there. The wood carvings he must have been doing to pass time in the emptiness of Ellie living in the garage.

[01:20:07] She sort of looked at them like she'd never seen them before. How his bed was made and the box on it looked like there was a small film of dust showing the room had been empty for so long. I feel crazy for saying this because we know it's his room, but it's like, oh, yep, that's totally Joel's room. Ellie is so stubborn, brave and impulsive usually, so she touched Joel's shirt, that one thing she could hold on to. I felt like I could see her let it all out and soften.

[01:20:30] Each of these nervous steps alone in a lonely, quiet still house led her to allowing the little girl not to be tough and brave. Bella Ramsey gives us all of Ellie so, so well. Saying goodbye to him at his grace with coffee beans as the throwback to the morning they slept in the forest was so sweet. I feel like she was saying goodbye to Jackson and Joel as she rode off into the sunset to the next phase of her life. I also loved the evolution of Seth. Well done for not turning out to be a giant dickhead.

[01:20:59] Overall, this is my favorite episode for sure. I am way too invested in this, I fear. Looking forward to hearing everyone else's reactions because I've babbled on way too much. Not at all, Tam. Always good to hear from you. It's an interesting way to put it. I'm way too invested in this, I fear. It's almost like getting into a relationship. You're like, I'm going to be hurt. I just know it. Right? I can't anymore. No, I said I wouldn't do this. One thing about that house. It's a damn big house.

[01:21:24] And I think Ellie, who's living in a communist society, is lucky that it was still waiting for her. Yeah, right? I think I read or heard on another pod that they built that house just for that one shot, just so they could get it right. No way. Oh, wow. That is so cool. Yeah. And I mean, looking around at objects is very much a part of the game because that's how you learn about. Yeah, backstory is reading the notes that you pick up, but also just looking at objects and things.

[01:21:54] So I think that's a nod to the game, looking at those wood carvings and stuff. Amazing. Here is Monica from Seattle. Hi, Castavis. It's Monica from Seattle again. I just listened to the pod in episode three and I got more things to say. Fun fact. I used to be a drug and alcohol counselor at an inpatient adolescent rehab facility. So obviously I worked with a lot of other therapists and young people struggling with behavior and addiction.

[01:22:22] Gail's comments about nurture being just a tiny little bit and mostly being nature drove me nuts. It is just not true and no trauma informed therapist would ever think that. It seemed like an unnatural line that the writers threw in to move us to believe that Ellie is the apocalypse's Anakin Skywalker with the dark side in her all along. Plus, I don't think we know if Ellie's anger was in her all along.

[01:22:48] It very much could be from nurture before she met Joel. I mean, her childhood trauma ACEs score is pretty through the roof. The more modern school of thought is nature versus nurture. Who cares? It's kind of all of a wash since trauma changes how neurons are being built in a growing brain. What matters is like what would give people relief? What do we do now?

[01:23:14] So to add also to Rema's comments about Seth and no one being all good or bad, I also want to put in that we all have unconscious biases. The question is where is our bias style at? And what awareness do we bring to keep a dial down? And do we take accountability if for some reason it gets turned up? And, you know, Seth did take accountability. So, yeah, Seth, I don't think is a bad guy. He's just a guy.

[01:23:45] And then to add in. Well, I think what Rema was saying is him standing up in the town hall and just going right to we need to go kill this person. Could also align with his, you know, just he's sensitive about I have my people and anyone outside is an enemy. But of course, this person's an enemy. They killed Joel. So, but I'm just saying, I don't know. Maybe it doesn't make sense what I'm saying.

[01:24:14] But, you know, it's just it goes along with that. I mean, it's justified here, but it still kind of goes along. The kind of person who would say a slur to a person who has a sexual orientation that he thinks is weird is also the kind of person that would be the most likely to want to go and kill someone who's not part of their group that did this to them. But again, it's much more justified in the second case. So anyway. Yeah. I hear you. I think that's what Rema was getting at. But anyway, here's the rest of Monica's message.

[01:24:44] To the conversation about the conversation in the tent, I give Dina a bit of grace on it. I think she's bisexual and she may not realize it yet. Another fun fact about me is I am bisexual and it took me way later in life to realize it. When you are in a heteronormative environment and Dina's comments about the other one, it sounds like Jackson is.

[01:25:12] Please note, I said heteronormative, not homophobic. It is real easy for that just not to be a possibility in your head if you don't see other bisexuals around. Absolutely. You know, and only see one, maybe two lesbian.

[01:25:31] And it gets real murky when you already, when you still have those feelings for the people you quote unquote should, the opposite sex. You still have all those right feelings. Makes it real hard to identify what's going on. I remember once I thought I was giving a friend shit that out of nowhere, it's like a light bulb turned on in my brain. And I thought, oh shit, I think I'm flirting with him. That's weird.

[01:25:59] And I put that thought back in a box and buried it a million feet underground for a few more years. Plus, everyone, when we were Dina's age, what, she's like 17? I don't know. Maybe 18? Can't remember exactly. But no matter what your sexual orientation was, everyone kind of fumbled around with flirting and figuring out boundaries and what feels good.

[01:26:25] So, yeah, I give Dina some grace, but not a full pass though, as she must know Ellie still kind of has feelings for her. And so, yeah, still a dick move. Anyway, thanks for letting me rant. Bye. That was such a good call. I think some grace, but not a full pass is a great way of looking at it. Yeah.

[01:26:45] And I think what they were going for with this scene is Dina fishing around to see if, how much Ellie likes her. Because I think, you know, we're all insecure about that kind of a thing. It's a vulnerable thing to try to make a love connection with somebody, you know? It is.

[01:27:06] And so she was trying to kind of being noncommittal about it, but just trying to test like how big of a, you know, how good of a kisser am I really means how much did you feel when we kissed? You know, do you like me? And if we assume that society kind of froze in 2003, in some ways, yeah, having bisexual representation and sort of the spectrum of queerness is definitely something that wouldn't really. Yeah.

[01:27:32] I think it did strike me as quite childish almost the way that Dina said, you know, you're the other one, like this idea that you're either gay or straight. And I know she was kidding. I don't think she, you know, but there's something behind that of like, oh yeah, I guess it is quite binary in that way, which is interesting. I think all the messages and especially these last two calls, just, I love it because we're carrying on the tradition of having some really great feedback for The Last of Us. Yeah, absolutely. Love it, you guys.

[01:28:02] And Monica, I agree, the nature nurture comment I thought was weird and I didn't like it either. It's sort of like giving up, like, yeah, there's nothing you can do, that's just how they are. You don't think a therapist is going to say that. You hope they won't. Yeah. Ricky White says, hey, cast of us, hello, Jason and the rest of the crew, I just wanted to say thank you. I found your podcast a few years ago while I was doing a Walking Dead rewatch.

[01:28:27] I was looking for more fan-driven content, people who still cared about tolerated the show. It felt like everyone else had kind of moved on or hated it and it was a weird feeling like I was still hanging on. Now we got a whole bunch of people over here. Back when the show first aired, I used to have friends over for watch parties. I remember the days of the Walking Dead watch party. And over the years, that group just got smaller and smaller until it was just me. Oh, buddy, just sitting on your own, you're looking dead.

[01:28:58] Oh, bud, we'll come. Tell us when to come. We'll call a watch with you. You see your friend's code and smell it, but he's not there. So finding your podcast made me feel like I wasn't alone in it. Awesome. I started at the beginning and listened all the way through, usually on long drives or runs. Even now when I hear your intro music, it hits this really nostalgic, comforting feeling. So great job on the intro, lol. Well, that's by my good friend, Nathan Meldstedt, who's a very talented musician, by the way. I don't say that enough.

[01:29:25] I just appreciate the community you've built and the time and energy you put into your craft. You share your thoughts and feelings and welcome others to express their feelings and thoughts, even if you may not totally agree with them. Thank you, man. That was really nice to hear from both of us, right, Lucy? Yeah, absolutely. That's what we aim for is to make people feel heard even when they're fucking wrong. I'm joking. That's totally the goal. Even when they like wheat more than corn, whatever, you know. I mean, occasionally, yeah.

[01:29:55] I love it when someone changes my mind. I know it doesn't happen quite as often as you guys think it should, but it does happen sometimes. Now with The Last of Us, it's even more personal for me. I lost both my parents when I was younger. And the second game especially hit really hard. The way it explores grief, anger, and just trying to move forward through all that. Healing is hard and messy. Obviously, this game explores the extreme version of this, but it still resonates. The Last of Us Part II is probably my favorite game of all time because of how it made me feel and made me think.

[01:30:24] Those kinds of stories stay with you. Even now, my friends and I still sit around and talk about that game years later. Yeah, it's a game that stays with you. I'll agree. Well, will Theorycraft talk about what could have happened or just sit with how good the story already is? And now seeing the show bring that to life in a new way has been really special, especially the way they're handling grief and memory. I'm excited and a little nervous to see where it goes.

[01:30:49] One thing I loved about The Second Came is walking through Joel's house and seeing the memories, seeing who he was outside of just what we knew, stories we could imagine happening. You feel like you're going to have more time with him and then you don't. And that feels real, you know? That's a lot like real life. You always think you'll have more time until you don't. It's a rare thing for a game to hit like that. I love what the show did with this, but we didn't get to linger in the house like I did on my playthrough. I do know one thing.

[01:31:17] If this was The Walking Dead, they would have taken eight episodes to get to Seattle. Hello. I'm just a podcast. I'm more of a lurker, maybe a new infected type. But I just felt like I had to say thank you. I don't expect this to get red or anything. I just wanted you to know that what you do matters. It found me at the right time. And I'm really grateful for that. Thanks again. And don't get bit. Oh, thank you, Ricky.

[01:31:47] I like that. Thank you for sharing that. And I'm sorry that you had such a hard time. And I'm glad that you found art that resonates with you because that's the kind of art that hits the hardest. Yes, that's what it's all for. Yeah, it is. Something that resonates. Okay, we have one more call, and that is from our good friend Archmaester Rennie. She sent this in last week. We had so much stuff. I asked if I could save it for this week because she had two, and so here it is. Amazing.

[01:32:14] I can't believe how much I can't stop thinking about this show, which is about mushroom pseudo-zombies, but makes me keep thinking about the difference between justice and vengeance, and is there one? So I am calling with an offer and a challenge. And so there is this series of books called Pop Culture and Philosophy. There's one called The Expanse and Philosophy.

[01:32:44] There's one on Game of Thrones and Philosophy. And so here's the offer. I found out that there is indeed one also called The Last of Us and Philosophy. Now, these books are a little on the academic side. And so what I want to offer is that at the end of season three, because the book is based on season one of the show and the game,

[01:33:09] so it goes all the way through the end of the second game, I will read that book. And I will come on a special podcast and talk about what that book says about all of these ethical dilemmas. Amazing. That The Last of Us raises. And here's the challenge. I challenge Lucy to also read that book. Yes. I love it. And talk with me about it.

[01:33:38] And the third part, sorry, the second part of the challenge is, Jason, I challenge you to referee Lucy's and my conversation about that book and keep us from going just too far off into the clouds or off the deep end into PhD talk. So I love this show. Well, you don't want me to read the book, huh? Jason's going to read it out of spite. He's going to spite read it.

[01:34:08] I only have a master's degree, so. Okay, I'll be the ref. I think that's a really great idea. I think it's really good. Yeah, it'd be great. Hopefully it's good. It's a good book. I assume these are good. Yeah. So yeah, let's do it. I think the listeners would dig that, right? I think. I would love to do that. That'd be pretty fun.

[01:35:21] All right, we're back. It's time for a little bit of game talk. This isn't like giving away anything big that's coming up in the future, but it just has some game talk. And I think if you're avoiding all spoilers, you should probably skip this segment. But if you've played the game, then you should definitely check it out. Listener John Smith says, in Ellie's death scene. I'm like, what? That's in there? Oh, oh yeah. Oh, shit.

[01:35:45] No, I wanted to mention a couple of things game related when, just little things. When Seth is at the gate with Ellie giving Ellie and Dina supplies and says to trade for his rifle, he goes, this one's better, trade. I feel like that's a nod to the game where you always want to try to get better equipment. Oh, like upgrading. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ah, I see. Maybe.

[01:36:14] And then the only other thing I want to mention is just, so the group of cultists are called Seraphites. And they communicate, they have this whole whistling language, as you heard them whistling at each other. And it's exactly the same sound as in the game. And so as soon as I heard that, I was like totally thrilled, but also like, fuck, where are those fuckers?

[01:36:40] You know, because you hear it and you can't tell quite where it's coming from. And it's, it means you could be in trouble. That is one of the things that some of the reviews have spoiled is like the name of that group of people, which is fine. So, yeah. I feel like, yeah, that was mentioned in the back matter too, like the HBO thing. So it's not too big of a secret, but it was so thrilling to see them in the, in the show. I didn't even know if they were going to be in this season.

[01:37:09] So that's really cool. If you play, they look very cool. Yeah. I hope we get to know them more in the show. So here's some feedback that was maybe a little bit more game related. And I think it's your turn, right? Alrighty. Russ Folk says, just as in the game, the jacket smelling slash hugging got to me. I've seen this before. It won't affect me. Remembers why it affected me last time. Granddad used to do the same thing with grandma's coat before he went up to bed.

[01:37:38] And then someone was chopping onions again. Oh, yeah. That game, that moment in the game hit just as hard as it did in the show. It was just very memorable. Oh, Wyman Owen says, well, to be honest at first, I didn't care for the episode, but as it went on, I warmed up to the idea of it. And when it finished, I was like, where's the next episode? I know it was a lot of filler. And after reflecting on it, I was okay with that.

[01:38:05] Gives the gamer part of me some context of what happened during the gaps that we didn't get to play. Um, I mean, in the game, they do go off pretty quickly after it happened. But, um, there's one big difference and I don't know if I should spoil it. I'll just say somebody else goes off first. Okay. Okay. So it's a little different. I feel like I'm really ruining game talk for everyone. Sorry, lad. No, no, it's okay.

[01:38:35] It's okay. Uh, the Wyman goes on, the opening credits was kind of sad with Joel figure being removed. I love seeing and feeling Ellie's grief and loss. I really felt Bella's emotion while walking through Joel's house, picking up his watch and gun, which was also in the game. Just like that. You find a box with his watch and then his gun smelling the jacket. So heart wrenching. And yes, I know we can't have end to end action every episode. And after last week, we definitely needed a cool down episode, catch our breath, so to speak, before they ramp it up again.

[01:39:04] I'm glad we made it to Seattle and seeing Ellie and Dina on screen together for longer. It was great. Also, I can't remember if in the game, it was three months before setting out to Seattle or not. No, it wasn't. I'm sure you all will talk about that. Anyways, it was all, it was an all right episode following last week's roller coaster. A pun for fun. What do you call a pasta with no money? Penniless. Penniless. Oh, and I must be obsessed with this show.

[01:39:29] After last week's initial airing, I was able to watch slash listen to episode two an additional 11 times. It was so good from a gamer's perspective. Are you talking, wait, he, he's listening to the podcast or watch just listening to the show. So maybe he was just listening to the show. I don't know. Anyway, can't wait to hear y'all's breakdown. And I'm glad my comments from last week had you both chuckling by the end of it. It helps to hear that it's not just funny in my head. Bye. Oh, it's funny in all our heads. That's right.

[01:39:59] Matthew Tindall says another episode, more changes. Some I liked, some left me scratching my head. Overall, this episode has some great moments. The coffee beans were perfect at Joel's grave. I loved how they expanded on Seth's story. Regardless of how you feel about him, I'd much rather have a more fleshed out character than a one note caricature, even if he has had a pretty small part. Yeah. In the game, Seth says the same thing at the dance. Oh, okay.

[01:40:26] Then they go to the restaurant and he gives Ellie and I think Jesse steak sandwiches. And then Ellie doesn't eat it. And I think she throws it away or gives it to someone else. And then you never see Seth again. Oh, died. Matthew says, I'm not a fan of the time jump, but I don't find it to be that big of a deal.

[01:40:52] Tommy not leaving ahead of them could be a big problem, though, depending on how they handle it. I'm assuming he will still end up in Seattle because that would be insane to cut his part out. But then why change it at all? Well, now you know. Now you know who went ahead. I'm starting to really dislike Gail. I don't hate the character herself and Catherine O'Hara is amazing in the role. But the way she was talking about Ellie really rubbed me the wrong way. The way she called her a liar and was saying she's the same as Joel and can't be saved.

[01:41:20] I'm doubling down on my she called Abby's group theory. I think Eugene found out and Joel killed him. But somehow Gail also knows without Joel being aware she does. One more thing I love was the Seraphite scene. My philosophy on adaptations is that it should be one to one plus. Don't change anything from the source material, but expand where it makes sense. The Jackson battle is one really good example of this. I really hope we see more of the Seraphites in the WLF than we did in the game. Me too. I'm intrigued.

[01:41:50] Yeah, I thought you were joking about Gail, but yeah. So she was married to Eugene who was a Firefly. And so people think that because Abby and her friends used to be Fireflies that Eugene somehow let them know that Joel was there or something like along those lines. So I don't know. Maybe there's some connection there. Yeah. Possibly. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm.

[01:42:22] All right. That is our show. Episode 639. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. I had fun. I had fun too. Last week was a blast as well. I'm looking forward to Monday. Yeah. I think I'm going to go ahead and jump on that one with you guys. So it'll probably be all four of us. Oh, amazing. That'll be cool. Be cool. And that will be The Last of Us Season 2 Episode 4, which as of yet has no name. I've heard the names have leaked. And one of the listeners asked me if I wanted to know what they were. But I said, man, I'd like to be surprised.

[01:42:53] Oh. It's sweet, right? Yeah. It's very cute. It's very innocent. If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at thecastofus.com. And while you're there, please check out some of our other podcasts. Like, did you ever listen to Let It Rip, The Bear Cast? If you didn't, why not? It was great. It was so good. It was so, so good. It was Lucy and Peter talking about Season 3, right?

[01:43:22] The most recent season of The Bear. Yes. And cooking on it. So it has something that none of our other shows have. Was it Season 3 or was it Season 2? Oh my God. You know what? It must be Season 3. Yeah, it was Season 3. Yeah, I think it was 3 and there's going to be one more. There's one more. Yeah. It was a season. I know that much. There was a season. There was cooking on it. We cooked some stuff. It was cool. It was really fun. And yeah, if you like that show, definitely go back and give that a listen.

[01:43:49] If you go to podcastica.com, there's a little search thing and you can search for, we have literally thousands of episodes up there. So many. So many. This episode was made possible by Patreon supporters like Maria Walker, who pledged their support at patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi. Thank you so much to Maria. If anybody else wants to help support the podcasting by doing that, you get ad-free episodes and occasional Patreon-exclusive stuff too. Yay.

[01:44:19] All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. Don't get bit, Sam Lowe.