642: "Day One" (The Last of Us S2E4) Listener Feedback + News

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmm. Podcast to go!

[00:00:37] Hey Zedheads, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Lucy. And I'm Eric. And I'm Daphne. The gang's all here. It'd be funny if there was like 30 more people. This is The Cast of Us episode 642. And this episode we're going through your feedback for The Last of Us season 2 episode 4, Day One. Yeah. So Lucy and Eric are two separate people. We are! I can see him! I can see Eric!

[00:01:06] Oh, this is such a treat. I've been itching for this to happen all season. Me too! So, uh... Please. Absolute pleasure. And Daphne, we've never podcasted before. Great to see you too. I know! Great to see you! And Daphne hasn't been on in a while. You may have heard Daphne on Yellowjackets WTF, on Run For Your Lives with Paik, or currently with me and Wendy over on The Handmaid's Tale. But I'm really glad you wanted to join us for this because I know you're a big Last of Us fan.

[00:01:36] And I want to know what you've thought about the season so far. I love it. I love that they're staying as true to the game, I think, as they can so far. I know episode two was a bit rough for maybe people who weren't expecting it, but I knew it was coming and it was still kind of rough. So yeah, that was some processing. But overall, I've really liked it. I love the effects.

[00:02:05] It takes you right into the game. And I didn't play the game, but I watched it be played. So it was like this 30-hour long movie. Mm-hmm. And I am not as, like, I wasn't as, like, into game two as I was game one as far as I didn't have as much time to watch it. Mm-hmm.

[00:02:25] But I've really enjoyed what they've done. And I think, like, the deviations that they've made from the game are, they're ones that kind of needed to be made. So, in order for it to work in a TV series. So, I'm totally on board. I'm excited to see where they go next. And yeah. Yeah, me too. Bella Ramsey is, they're just killing it. So. Agreed. Absolutely. Good. I'm glad you're liking it.

[00:02:55] Yeah, definitely. As an appreciator of the game and doesn't surprise me at all that, like, you can watch this game and get just as almost as much out of it. It's a very watchable game. In fact, sometimes, I used to tell people, if you're not a gamer, go on YouTube and watch it anyway. Yeah. Watch a playthrough. There's, I mean, it, to me, it's one of the games that stands out as being one that you can watch because. Yeah.

[00:03:22] There's just such, you know, rich storytelling in the game and not all games are like that. No. I think this is the best game in the world for that. I mean, these two, both Last of Us games. It's also cinematic the way that it is presented. It's cinematic. The story is phenomenal. It doesn't, you know, it treats the player and or the watcher, you know, actually like an adult for the most part. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's why we fell in love with it, you know, right, right off the bat. Yeah.

[00:03:51] And we should give a nod to the Telltale Walking Dead game, which is also right up there, I would say. Oh, man. For storytelling. I have to say Red Dead Redemption. Yeah. That's a good one. Especially the second one. Two. Absolutely. My daughter, she has a, her first, or one of her earliest tattoos is of Arthur, a deer skull wearing Arthur Morgan's hat. Oh, yes. So, yeah.

[00:04:15] Lucy, what did you think of this episode? I'm curious to know if you thought it was too video game-y. Yeah, well, I was actually, so I listened to you guys today so that I could come on prepped because I was really bummed out to miss out on Monday. My cat is fine, by the way. Yeah, I was going to ask. Who was concerned about my cat? He is okay. Good. He's a bit sore and a bit embarrassed, but I think otherwise fine. Yes.

[00:04:40] So, in terms of does it feel like a video game, I'm not the gamer in the house. Peter is definitely the gamer. The extent of my gaming is like an unhealthy attachment to Stardew Valley, which is about as far from The Last of Us as you can get both in tone and design. Although, you know, there's some like dark subplots, I'm sure. I have this thing when I'm watching it where occasionally there will be a really beautiful frame that I'm like, I bet this is from the game and I don't mean it as an insult.

[00:05:08] So when I say it feels gamey, I actually mean that as a compliment sometimes when I'm watching this. I'm like, no, I get it. I get sometimes that there's beats and nods and winks that I'm not getting, but I don't feel that I'm missing out on it because of that. And I thought it was interesting because you were talking a lot about the Seraphites and the wolves. And I think they did a pretty good job of setting them both up in this episode. I don't feel that there's a gap in my understanding of what was happening.

[00:05:37] I think the timeline got a little confusing for me just because I forgot that this apocalypse started in 2003. So I was like still there for 18 years and then 11 years. We're at 20. So I was doing a little bit of mental maths there. And I think the one question I had for you all is so the wolves exist at the same time as the fireflies and they kind of absorb fireflies after the fireflies fall. Is that right? Uh, yeah.

[00:06:07] Yes. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's like after Joel took out most of the remaining fireflies, the ones who were left went to Washington to hang out with wolves. Zero days with an accident. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Before we get into the feedback, there were just a few comments I kind of forgot to say from last time, kind of like another extra little note section that we do.

[00:06:33] Um, I loved when Ellie showed Dina her first bite that was covered with the tattoo. And Dean's like, you did that to yourself. And Ellie goes, I really wanted to wear short sleeves again. I just love that. That was a good line. Yeah. That was fun. Uh, the, after Ellie and Dina get together, Dina says, I'm sorry it took so long. I knew, I knew how you felt about me, how I was hiding it really well. No, you kind of fucking weren't.

[00:07:00] And that made sense to me because I really thought when Dina was like teasing Ellie about, Oh, who are you going to bring to the dance? I think she totally knew that Ellie was into her and she was just kind of purposefully messing with her a little bit. Um, and just kissing those silica gel packets that were in with the guitar case. I was thinking about it and it makes a lot of sense for Ellie because she's such a fan of everything from the old world.

[00:07:29] And the last of us, everything is subject to moisture and decay. And it's like all these things that she's a fan of are just fading away, you know? And so it's just like, ah, this is what preserved this little piece of history for me, which makes me feel even more critical that she didn't put it back in there afterwards. She's young and in love and you know, I did. I very much enjoyed the queer representation in this episode. I thought it was good.

[00:07:58] I thought it was, um, I don't think anything on TV will ever quite get the dizzying high of the Bill and Frank episode last season. Cause I think that's just a masterclass in, in that kind of story. But I think this, this came close and I think having a character explain the lived experience of being bisexual is a, was a bit on the nose, but very earned because I think it's something that gets glossed over a lot. Like people either turn gay or stay straight. They don't ever existed in this middle ground.

[00:08:27] And I thought it was really neat that they had Dina explain that that's where she was and where she had been told not to be. So I game recognizes game. I thought that was cool. After this episode, did you feel less critical? I don't remember if you were that critical, but of Dina from last time. I was a bit, I felt she was, I agreed with Eric, actually. I thought last episode, she was kind of toying with Ellie a bit. And I didn't love that.

[00:08:51] I felt there was a little bit of like, if, as she says, she knew how she felt, that was maybe not the coolest. But now that I know that she was kind of figuring out how she felt, it sits a bit better with me now. And I'm happy for both of them. And I fucking told you she was pregnant. I was like, she peed on screen. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a good story. But also, did you just come out as bisexual, by the way? Yeah. But I think all our listeners pretty much know that.

[00:09:20] I don't know if I knew. Oh. I mean, I thought maybe, but. Yeah. Cool. Just wanted to make sure you didn't miss that. I hope my mom's listening. She just doesn't listen to it. She's just like, okay, whatever. And then talks about something else. Yeah. It's fine. Yeah. No, absolutely. I think it's really important.

[00:09:41] And especially, I don't know if it's a lot of people's experience, but when you inhabit that space where you identify as queer, but you're living a life where you're falling on the heteronormative side of things, like my partner is male. You can feel very erased and very not seen. And I think it's really important that we have people on screen talking about it. Sure.

[00:10:04] I will say when SNL parodied all the video game adaptations, one of the things they took the piss off was like just changing characters to make them edgy by making them bisexual. Yeah. And then the one they do with Pedro Pascal from Mario Kart, there's a bit where like just all the characters are like, I'm bisexual. It's just very funny. So do go and watch that if you can. Oh, I do remember that. I think. Yeah. That was funny. He's playing Yoshi. I think.

[00:10:33] I'm Yoshi and I'm bisexual. And it's just like. I really like, I love the last of us games because of various different levels of representation and showing different kinds of characters than the norm. And also, I just think a post apocalyptic show is a great place to show people being like, hey, let's just live how we want and not worry about what everyone says we should do. Which I guess is more relevant on this show since it came in 2003. So there wasn't quite as much acceptance as there is now, you know? Yeah.

[00:11:01] I think that I was going to say the arrested development of like, it was 2003 and the beautiful naivety of Ellie and Dina not knowing what the flags were for. Yes. I love that. That was really nice. Like it was a nice, I mean, it's awfully awful that they don't have that positive representation in their own life. And they were both born in the apocalypse. They were already born post all of that. So they couldn't even have any kind of living memory, you know, of the past. Maybe the happy, what was it? The optimistic. Optimists. Yeah.

[00:11:30] The optimistic pride town. I'm like, oh, girls, you would have loved it in the 2020s. The real ones, you know? But yeah, no. So that was really cool. And I enjoyed your episode as well. Listening to it today. So yeah. Cool. Jason. Jason, can I just say one thing? Yeah. I really want a Bella Ramsey release of Take On Me. Yes. Yeah. Right. Wasn't that so good? I just want to acoustic. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:01] I definitely want that. Did you check? I wouldn't be surprised. I checked. It doesn't exist, but I really want one. It'd be great. I mean, it did sound a lot like Ashley Johnson's rendition too. It really did. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's get in some feedback. I'm a zombie guy. Daphne, would you like to go first? Sure.

[00:12:26] Uh, Jim McMicken says, Jackson is a smallish city in the large valley of Jackson Hole. The show takes place in both. So there you go. That's schooling me. Yeah. That's great. Thank you. Mm-hmm. Matt King says, possibly the best episode of the series so far. Take On Me was lovely and some nice scenes between Ellie and Dina and plenty of exciting scenes from start to finish with Isaac going rogue to the chase through the train cars. Hmm. Well said.

[00:12:57] Changing into my reading glasses because I'm an old lady. Um, I'm an old bisexual lady. Um, Megan O'Connell says. It's been a long week. It's only Wednesday. Um, Megan O'Connell says, wow, that version of Take On Me was so moving. It even had me crying just out of joy and sadness. Bella was so good. This episode was pretty intense too. Can't wait to see what's next. Great job guys. Thanks for letting us all vent and discuss. Thanks for writing in.

[00:13:27] Jennifer Camillory says, get you a girl that looks at you the way Dina looks at Ellie singing Take On Me. Swoon. I think I fell in love with both of them in that scene. I mean, yeah, Bella played it so well. Uh, if you watch the back matter or no, it was on the podcast, the official podcast this week was especially good. And Craig Mazin was saying, you know, he was talking to Bella like when you play guitar for someone like that, you can play it like seductive and serenading, or you can play it kind of shy and just look over every once in a while.

[00:13:56] And he's all do that one. And they really, they really did. But I think as well, it's probably the same in the game. Like Ellie has the power in that scene. And I like that because I feel like so much of this so far has been, she's really into Dina and isn't always getting a lot back. Whereas this, I was like, oh, the tables have turned. Ah, ha, ha. Yeah. And later when Dina said to Ellie, like, not everyone can be as brave as you or something like that. I think that was not just a flirt. It was real too.

[00:14:25] Like you suddenly you're seeing a lot of what Dina respects and loves about Ellie in this episode, which is great. Absolutely. Jennifer also said loving this season and I cannot wait to see what happens next. Woo. Carlos Frederick says, wow, the Ellie and Dina aha moment was so good. Overall, I really liked it. So intense at times. I was like, oh, damn, full frontal. Well, scars are going to be some scary fucks.

[00:14:53] I'm not a gamer, so I'm not knowing where this is heading is so great. Isaac was kind of a dick. Yeah, I'd say so. Yeah. Yeah. Seeing that scene, we didn't really talk about it, but we just finished White Lotus season three and that show, it's kind of a tradition to get some full frontal male nudity every season. And they talk about prosthetics a lot and how the actors ask for prosthetics because they want to look good.

[00:15:22] And I couldn't help but wonder if this guy did the same thing, even though this scene is like not about that at all. Yeah. I'm obsessed with like who does the pots and pans cleaning in that torture chamber. They look pretty nice. It's like human flesh off of a copper pan. That's nasty. Like you're going to need a team to do that. So. No, it comes right off. It's no problem. We were like, so in the back room, there's a little pot washer being like my dream before

[00:15:50] this happened was to be a pot washer and now I get to do it every day. The one happy guy in the apocalypse. Yeah. Living his best life. Oh yeah. All right. Next, next one is from Josh Gell. Hey guys. I take back what I said last week. This episode was so good. Isaac is a bit of a wanker, isn't he? I'm glad they did the take on me guitar scene. That's one of my favorite moments from the game.

[00:16:19] Oh, and that whole sequence in the subway was amazing. Love this episode. 11 out of 10 plus one because Ellie is going to be a dad. I laughed so much when you said you and Maggie had been like, so they're going to move in together pretty soon. Huh? I was like, yeah. You know, it's funny. I almost asked Jason to take, take me saying that out of there. I'm like, I don't want to piss anybody off. No, I was thinking it. Like I was shouting, I was like, guys, they're going to get a U-Haul.

[00:16:49] And I was like, no. A hundred percent. I'm not there. I'm not there. I'm glad you didn't ask me to take that out. Janine G says, this episode was intense between the torture scene and Ellie and Dina getting out of the subway station. I was on the edge. I'm hoping for more Isaac in the last three episodes. He's a great character. I still miss Joel though. But why are the wolves scared of the scars? Whistles and arrows compared to a tank and guns is no competition. I mean, ask those guys who are hanging with their guts hanging out. Yeah.

[00:17:19] Yeah. Good luck with that. I'm like, those arrows seem pretty effective on that one dude. Yeah. Janine. Evan Shapiro says, hi everyone. I'm just listening to the season two episode three feedback. And I had to chuckle when someone suggested that there might be another Joel with how big Jackson is and he might be handsome. It made me wonder if Abby ends up going all memento and finding and killing different Joel's repeatedly. Something you never would have expected. Any handsome Joel, you're in trouble.

[00:17:49] I love that. All these tattoos on Abby of different faces of different handsome dudes. Stacy Metcalf says, this episode was equal parts love and gore. Ellie's version of take on me. Wow. Bella was so beautiful. And I loved how in awe Dina was of Ellie's talent. The two of them each revealed secrets after their traumatic escape, which brought them together.

[00:18:16] Isaac appears brutal, but the Sarah fights are horrifying. The hanging bodies were just dreadful. I knew it was coming because you guys said they weren't as they appeared. They definitely aren't. I can't believe we only have a few more episodes this season. Me either. I know. Yeah. Somehow. That's not enough. I missed the memo that it was only seven episodes. And yeah, now I'm disappointed because I just found out and I need more.

[00:18:46] Yeah. Yep. Yeah. It's a bummer. Yeah. That's a whole other thing. Yep. Uh, Jess Jones says, wow, another intense episode with some really beautiful moments sprinkled in. I absolutely loved Ellie's rendition of one of my all time favorite songs. I too welled up knowing that Joel taught her as promised such a sweet moment of love, reflection, grief, and remembering. Can't wait to see what's next.

[00:19:12] Now that we know how powerful and ruthless the WLFs really are, feeling scared for everyone involved. It's probably obvious by now, but I'm a non gamer. Not sure if you guys wanted us to say this in our comments. Loving the pod as always. Thanks guys. Amazing. It actually does help if you guys point out, especially if you are a gamer and you're going to be talking about something in the game. So then I can like put that in the game section, but you know, yeah, if you want to cool. If not, no big deal.

[00:19:43] Um, Eric, you said on the main pod, you were sure the song had been used in the show before. I think it was a Riley episode. Was it? Was that when it was? Yeah. Okay. I think so. They definitely had a cure song when they were on the merry-go-round, but I think take on me was in it as well. So yeah, it was just like heaven during the merry-go-round if I recall correctly. Yeah. It was what weird merry-go-round, but also amazing. Like. Yeah. Yeah. This, watching this season is making me wish we had done a rewatch.

[00:20:13] We should do that at some point of season one. Yeah. It'll be good. Maybe before season three, we can do a, I mean, this is only seven episodes. The other one is what? Nine or 10. We can get through it pretty quick. Yeah. So in two years, we'll do it. Uh, we'll find a spot. Um, Becky Anderson says the sets are incredible. Kudos to the teams putting those together. This episode was full of suspense and heart loved Bella's version of take on me. I appreciate how they've kept Joel alive with sweet moments. These past two episodes.

[00:20:42] I thought the scene where Ellie doesn't turn and Dina confesses her pregnancy was odd. Hey, look, I didn't turn. Oh, I'm pregnant. Cool. That's exactly how I thought about it. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Um, felt rushed cramming all that into one scene, but I did love the banter with her showing all the tests she took and Ellie talking about being a dad. Very cute. The torture scene was awful. Isaac is going to be an interesting villain.

[00:21:10] And yeah, you know me, Becky, I'm not a fan of a torture scene. So that was brutal, but, um, yeah. Isaac's a hero. I don't know what you guys are talking about. Uh, Jerry Macbeth says, while actually listening to the podcast for this episode, during your discussion about gamers versus show only years, much emphasis attributed to, or supposed to, supposed to Pedro fans being less interested in continuing to watch post Joel's death.

[00:21:36] My experience differs in that though I like Pedro Pascal well enough. I'm not some super fan. I'm unsure how much I love the story direction post Joel. I'm not as interested in more apocalyptic romantic relationship exploration as I was, as I wasn't finding closure with the parental guidance one. When shows trend towards the romance, any type, they start to feel soap opera-y to me, not my genre of choice. And I'm still feeling grumpy about Carl's demise, I guess. Aren't we all?

[00:22:06] Same. We always will. Same. We always will. Big mistake. That's when I walked off the walking dead. I was done the moment that happened. I'm like, Oh, I'm, I'm out. Yeah. That was it. Quite right. You know, quite right. I mean, also, you know, also like, it's great, but also quite right. Like both sides, both sides. I, I, I, I, a little back and forth with Jerry about this online already.

[00:22:28] But, uh, one thing that isn't coming across as we podcast on this is how we felt Daphne, Eric and me when we first, when this happened to us years ago, we lost Joel, right? Yeah. And, and when I first found out, which was a day before I played the fucking game, cause I read a spoiler and then played it the next day, I was like, I don't like this. Uh, like I I'm going to trust it.

[00:22:55] Cause I, you know, they, they clearly, um, are great at this, but also no, like I love Joel and I loved him in the first game. And we, do they really have to do this? You know? And then by the time I'd finished that game the next day, cause I played it like 30 hours straight. I was like, okay, I, I, I, this is a really great story. It's a great game and it's become one of my favorite games of all time. And I don't, I think this, uh, focus is a little bit on the romance, especially this

[00:23:24] episode, but I think the themes are not really about romance. They're more about this whole vengeance and perspective thing and stuff like that. So I wouldn't say it's going to be just a, I don't know. It, I mean, it is a big part of it, but yeah. Well, I think Ellie and Dina, their relationship to me, while it is turning into this romantic thing, they also have this really, I think, deep connection to each other.

[00:23:51] And sometimes I think it gets glossed over or in movies or TV in general, sometimes that deeper connection gets glossed over and like, oh, now look, they were really good friends or they were very close and now they're in a romance. Let's forget that they really connected deeply before they were in a romance together. And I hate to see that happen because it kind of negates all of that character development. And it makes me sad.

[00:24:19] As far as when I saw Joel die, um, I didn't know what was coming. I just saw it in the game and I didn't know if I wanted to keep watching because it was really rough because you know, like Jason, I love Joel. I thought he wasn't perfect, but what he did to build the first game and build this story

[00:24:47] with Ellie is something that made me stay committed to watch the rest of it because I felt like her continuing on was really a piece of him continuing on at the same time. I'll just say quickly, finishing the second game and loving the story so much, the Dina-Ellie relationship is a part of what I loved about it, but it's not the main thing. There's a lot of other things that I loved about it. Yeah. There's a lot.

[00:25:13] And I have, I have opinions, but I'm not going to share them because they're spoilers. Yeah. We don't want to spoil her. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to spoil anything, but I have thoughts. No, it was one of those things that when, when it happened, yes, it was shocking. Uh, I, I don't recall if I got spoiled or not only because I felt like, well, he's going to have to die. How else are they going to propel this story forward? Cause I knew we weren't going to get any other. That's what I thought. Yeah. I didn't think we were going to get another Joel and Ellie adventure, you know, for what going after the arc or, or something like that.

[00:25:43] Um, so it just kind of felt inevitable. And, and then when you're playing it and it happens and, and everything else that happens after that, it's like, all right, couldn't have happened without that. And, um, you know, it's, it's the engine of this whole thing. It had to happen. So bummer, but yeah. And I mean, the breaks that storytelling, you know, but I still, I mean, and I, I don't know if you heard me, Jerry, but I, I think I said, if you're a Pedro fan or a Joel fan, I wouldn't debate too hard that, oh yeah, you should still keep watching.

[00:26:13] Cause maybe you just really liked Joel and you're not interested now and that's fine. But I think people should give it a chance and see what you think. Yeah. There's always going to be a catalyst. There's always going to be a catalyst that divides people. And I knew it was coming. I just kind of thought it might be later in the season. Yeah. I almost, I was wondering if they'd be brave enough to do it at all. Yeah. It has to. It's really propels the story. You can't have like Ellie's cat die or something. They like break his leg.

[00:26:44] That was like, she goes on a rage because somebody broke Joel's leg. I'm going to. Yeah. I thought for some reason that they would do it. Maybe. Later. Season three, episode one or later in this season. But when they started this season where they did, I knew, okay, they're going to do it and I'm not ready for it, but it's coming like next week. I, yeah, it was rough. I just, I remember that kind of bargaining stage of Glenn's death in The Walking Dead

[00:27:12] where I was like, maybe they won't do Glenn in the show. Yeah. Cause Steven Yeun's real nice. So maybe they won't. Maybe it'll be someone different. Yeah. That would be amazing. It's someone different. It's someone different. It's Abraham. Oh shit. Oh shit. Oh man. Then we thought Glenn was off the hook. No. No. Robert Kirkman did that on purpose. He's like, I'm going to get people's hopes up. Of course you can't. Look at that. Oh. Oh man. I think that dude's a sadist actually.

[00:27:40] The more I think about it, I'm pretty sure he chuckles a lot as he's writing. I can hear it. Yeah. Okay. Here's a call from Steve Brown. Hello, the cast of us. This is Steven. This is going to be for the last of us season two episode for day one, which I guess that has some significance in the game. Okay. So we're flashing back to 2018. This is, uh, I mean, one thing we may have also missed maybe, maybe not, but day one does

[00:28:06] have significance in the game because when Ellie and Dina go to Seattle, it, the chapters called Seattle day one or something like that. But maybe also it's like day one of Ellie and Dina's relationship or something, you know? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Right at the beginning of the, what the mushroom block was, what are we calling this? Hey, what did they just call each other? Isaac and hammerhead. Oh, he just tossed two grenades into that truck with the rest of his troops. Oh, and he gives the rookie a choice. Huh?

[00:28:33] I wonder who these two characters are, the bearded guy and the rookie. Okay. 11 years later. So I guess you guys, I guess somebody just say that it's 2029, right? The caption just says day one. So not really a mic drop, but it is the title of the episode. Oh, wow. I didn't even think about the fact that they wouldn't know the rainbows and pride, uh, what that stands for. Interesting. You proved that no one's around with your tank hatch maneuver. And Ellie finds a rather well-preserved guitar.

[00:29:01] And I guess, uh, it makes sense that in the mushroom apocalypse, you would have to learn how to tune by ear. Huh? And she knows take on me. Uh, she's just going to leave the guitar there though. Hey, it's Jeffrey, right? You see the guy, the bearded guy in the federal helmet at the beginning? Yes. Right. Yeah. He had quite a thicker beard. Oh, torturing this guy for information. Oh, and he just kills him straight up. And the kid outside calls him an animal. Unfortunately, Dina, you're going to find out eventually that there's a lot of wolves who weren't in Jackson. Okay.

[00:29:30] I was one of the people that messed up. It is Jackson, not Jackson hole. Okay. Whatever. Okay. It's both apparently. And she found something in that, uh, store that she then had to pee on. Uh, yeah, there's a bunch of foreshadowing here. So the scar group is, uh, not a nice, not nice people. And the WLF isn't nice either. I mean, this guy's talking about killing babies. Oh, Ellie's got them in that sleeper hole. And serpentine. Okay. They got away. Okay. They're maybe they're not quite away yet.

[00:29:56] Are those clicker critter sounds mushroom people that they're hearing in this tunnel? And these guys are shooting flares and looking for the girls. Oh, and Dina's somehow counting. Cause she can tell the difference, I guess, in the clickers and how many there are. Huh? Oh, this is hard for tense in the subway car. Oh, Ellie just got bit in front of Dina. Oh, wow. And these things crushed into this turnstile. Of course, she's going to need to tell Dina that she's immune or it's Dina's going to shoot her. Right? Well, she told her now Dina's got to decide if she believes her or not.

[00:30:25] And there it is. Dina just said she's pregnant. That's how it works. I would just randomly piss on stuff. All right. Three episodes left, man. It's going by fast. Yeah. That's a good detail that he mentioned that I hadn't thought of that Isaac had a thicker beard earlier on because our beard lengths change at different times, you know? Yeah. They, they graded up to for, uh, for now. Yeah. 11 years later. I love Jeffrey Wright. I'm so pleased he's in this.

[00:30:54] I didn't listen to you discuss it, Eric, cause it was in game talk, but American fiction was one of my favorite films of last year. God is. No, actually that was, uh, we, that was myself, Ben and, uh, Rima off when the episode was over, we were just talking and we started talking about, uh, American fiction and Rima hadn't seen it. We're just like, oh dude. I haven't seen that in one time. I highly recommend watching that. Oh, it's so good. Jason, you'll really enjoy it. Yeah. It's very witty. Really funny. And I love his brother so much. It's just, I've taken a lover.

[00:31:30] Oh, it's brilliant. Chad Johnson says, great episode. I liked how episode four picks up with the same story and dialogue feel of episode. And then ramps up scene by scene in intensity. Dina definitely said it all. What the fuck is wrong with Seattle? This episode had a lot of iconic scenes from the game, nailed it all. Chef's kiss. The aspects they added were also superb. I have to share.

[00:31:58] I laughed at myself when the love scene between Ellie and Dina happened. It felt so uncomfortable. I'm a gay man. So not because it's two girls. So I asked myself, am I just old now? But then realized it was more like, whoa, our little girl went from Mickey Mouse Club to the strip club. Sort of like, sort of like Arya in Game of Thrones had a sex scene toward the end of the series. I guess it's good.

[00:32:26] I'm not comfortable with young persons getting busy. I'm not a prude clutching pearls here. Right? Right. I am not old. I am not old. I'm 52. Okay. I'm old. I'm just not a perv. LOL. I felt a little bit of that too. Yeah. Yeah. I love that you like interrogated that, Chad. And we're like, where is this coming from? Because yeah, I think it's important to ask ourselves these things. Yeah.

[00:32:52] But also completely legit because I remember having that same reaction to Arya and being like, oh no. I don't want to see this. Then being like, am I a bad feminist? No, I'm 53 and I had the joy of watching that with my 22 year old daughter. And actually she was squirming. I was fine. I'm like, whatever. But it was. It was great. All right. Carly Jackson says, I can't believe it never occurred to me to raid the kitchen supply store.

[00:33:22] That's about a mile from my house in the zombie apocalypse. I have added luxury kitchenware to my zombie apocalypse supply list. Thanks. Last of us. I was not excited about the Dina pregnancy storyline because I think too many TV shows use that trope when they can't think of something more interesting for a female character. But when Ellie said she was going to be a dad, it was very sweet. We've seen the cycle of dadhood in a violent sense. Joel choosing to save Ellie, Abby revenging her dad.

[00:33:51] But there's also the cycle of dadhood that is about teaching Ellie how to play guitar. Also, the zombies in the subway were so cool and scary. Okay. Bye. Bye. What stuck out the most was first the subway scene. That was very tense. But the way Ellie shoved her arm out so Dina wouldn't get bit was so brave, even though she's immune. You can tell it was just a natural instinct to protect her. That's a good point.

[00:34:21] Even if you're immune, you don't really want to stick your arm out in front of someone who's going. Oh no. This is like, you know, if you're driving in the car, right, and you have to slam on your brakes, let's say as a parent, I instinctively always put my right arm over to the front seat to block whoever's there. Aww. It's just, it's, you just happen. It just happens. You know? Aww. Um, Lisa says, I totally get Dina being scared and suspicious, but once she figured out Ellie was safe and she wasn't going to lose her, I think it opened up her eyes to how she was

[00:34:50] really feeling about Ellie. It was so funny to have her say she was pregnant and then immediately kissing and immediately start kissing Ellie. Those two really do have some great chemistry. One of the things I absolutely loved in this episode was when Ellie singing was singing that Aha song. I got very teary as well because I knew Joel showed them how to play and you can sense and feel Joel's presence at that moment. As for the wolves and the Joker scarred people, sorry, I forgot their names.

[00:35:16] Sounds like there's a lot of history there and these Joker scarred people are not as innocent as originally portrayed last week's episode. Guess we will see. Great episode and I can't believe we are more than halfway over. Can't wait to hear you all discuss it. I, yeah, Lisa, I, I'm fascinated by that conflict too. And I'm even more fascinated by it due to the fact that Neil Druckmann is Israeli and I think he has a lot of thoughts about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

[00:35:45] Um, I don't think to his credit, I don't think one way or the other, I think he's quite balanced in it from what I've read, but it has fed into my viewing of the show thinking about that as a backdrop to these two factions fighting and if there's any kind of resonance there with, with what happens in real life. So yeah, I'm interested. Yeah, definitely something to watch. And I think one of the themes of this series is that no one's completely innocent. Exactly. Violence begets violence.

[00:36:15] Yep. Yep. Maria Lawson says, women yet again can't puke on TV without being pregnant. I was, I mean, I want to stand up for this cause they're trying to give, cause they want, they want, they want. All you do. Don't, don't, don't scoff at me when I'm trying to make a point. Uh, they want, um, Dina to be pregnant, right? That's part of the story and they want to hint at it. Yep. So what are they going to do?

[00:36:45] Well, no one ever goes like my boobs hurt and I'm really moody. I can't talk about other pregnancy symptoms. So you think that would have been better? My boobs hurt. Yes. Like honestly, yes. Or like, I pissed on a rabbit. It died. That would be a little odd for a character to say in a, in a, in a show. I don't know. I mean, I could try it. I don't hate, I don't think it is nonsensical. I think it's very sensical. It just makes me roll my eyes because I feel like that's the only thing we ever. Yeah.

[00:37:15] And so I'm asking what, what, what else? I mean, I, I think it's okay to have a pregnant woman in the story. I think there's only so many stories you can tell. There should be none. That's the sense I get from a lot of people. It's like, Oh, another woman's pregnant. And it was like, what? But then how do you hint at it? Or maybe you just don't bother hinting at it. I don't know. The argument is not so much that it correct me if I'm wrong, Daphne and Eric, the argument is not so much that women can't puke on that. Women can't be pregnant without puking.

[00:37:44] It's that women can't puke. Exactly. And that's why I came at this by saying, okay, but it's not like we need to figure out a way to have Dina puke. Oh, let's make her pregnant. Then it'll make sense that she puked. No, the argument is, we need Dina to be pregnant. So let's hint at it somehow. Right. Yeah. I think it's, it feels, this is not a list of a specific criticism. It just feels like a crutch sometimes of like, ah, we'll just make her puke and then everyone will know when we don't have to kind of, yeah, we can yada yada. And I'm just a bit like, Oh. Yeah.

[00:38:14] And so that's why I keep asking what else should they do? And I mean, I would be interested to see. Jason, the hill you pick. It's a similar trope. The one that I always laugh at. The reason why I'm picking this hill is because it keeps coming up. And so I'm like, let's talk about this thing that keeps coming up on a podcast where we talk about stuff. No, I think to me, it's a similar thing. Like I always laugh. Anytime somebody coughs in a movie or a TV show, it's like, Oh, you're dead. They're dead. You're dead. Yeah. They died. It's shorthand. Absolutely. Don't get attached. They're dead.

[00:38:44] Go to TVTropes.com. You'll see every trope has a thousand examples of when it came up. Yeah. Red Dead Redemption 2. What was, yeah. Yes. I mean, come on. That's how we show. Yeah. Broke my heart. I think you can also have like really rich narratives where people are pregnant and I hope it is this, but I think sometimes particularly in like the sitcom era, a pregnancy in a TV show

[00:39:10] is sometimes a dead end for a character because it flattens them to being just a parent or a mother or a father. And I don't, I hope that The Last of Us doesn't do that. And from the way you guys talk about it, I don't think it will, but there is sometimes a bit of a sense of dread of like, is this the only thing that you can do with a female character? And I think it's, it becomes more poignant.

[00:39:34] I think it makes more sense in the apocalypse when access to things like contraception are presumably very limited, but in day-to-day storytelling, it can sometimes feel a bit limiting and a bit like, okay, well that character in the apocalypse context, that character's life is now in danger in a way that they weren't before. Sure. It feels unfair in that sense that this is something this character is going to have to face without the wonders of modern medicine. But also in general storytelling, it can be a bit like, I hope they handle this right.

[00:40:04] It just makes you a bit anxious, like not so much like, oh, their story is definitely dead. Now they're really boring. Just more. I hope the writers know how to make this a rich story and keep this character as strong as they are rather than like, Oh, they're a mom. Now they're just gonna be covered in sick and depressed, which is not what mothering or parenting is. I'm just gonna say that this game and this show, I feel has, you should maybe feel comfortable in knowing that for the most part, they've done a decent job of, yeah, there might be a cliche here or there, but they've also subverted expectations or,

[00:40:33] or not just relied on those basic tropes. So just gonna say it's, it's, I have faith in the writers on this one. I think it's going to be fine. Also like, you know, when you have stories, you focus on certain characters and then other characters are there to kind of bring something out about the focus character. And so then there's the critique that all the other characters just, there's a tool.

[00:40:58] And, you know, I think that's always true to some degree or another with every character in every show, but, um, the best shows figure out how to illuminate each of the characters. So they seem like real full people. And so I would say in the case of Dina's pregnancy, yeah, there's, there's some implications that will impact Ellie and the other characters. But I also think so far, at least they're doing a pretty good job of making Dina seem like a person in her own right.

[00:41:24] So we'll see by the end of this, whether you have that critique or not, but I'm not talking about that at all. I'm just talking about the idea that it, like, it just seems funny to me that people are writing as if they're saying, man, I wish they could have made a made Dina have puked for some other reason. And I'm like, they were trying to figure out a way to make her puke. They were just trying to hint that she was pregnant. Actually, they should have had her after she was all drunk and stoned at the, uh, at the party. They should have had her puke and, you know, into a barrel or over the edge somewhere just to show. Yeah, she's just pukey. She's not pregnant.

[00:41:54] It's equal opportunity pukey on this show, people. Come on. Oh, my God. Oh, I agree. It's DEI for puking. That's what we want. Well, maybe they'll have that on some of the show. Representation matters. In this show, she's pregnant. So maybe they should have Ellie puke sometimes just to make it even. Oh. After seeing Dina puke, she goes, oh, God, I hate seeing somebody vomit. Yeah. Bleh. Are you pregnant? No, I'm not. Oh, my gosh.

[00:42:24] But, uh, if she, I really now want to see the version where she says, my boobs hurt and just see the twisted reaction to that. Oh, God. She's on the horse. They're riding around on Shimmer. She goes, God. Oh, Ellie, can you slow down? My boobs hurt. Ellie's just like, uh, thanks. Anyone else have cravings? I just like, actually, to be fair, cravings are, okay, yeah, that's another thing. It's all wrong. Okay, cool. It's just all bad. It's all terrible.

[00:42:54] Let's just have very non-appropriated. I need pickles and ice cream. Oh, my God. Does anybody have a craving? Oh, man. All right. Oh, man. Well, Maria had more to say than just that. And I apologize, Maria. I'm not trying to pick on you. I just, a few different people have written that, so I wanted to advice. She says, otherwise, this episode was fantastic. The music store was so beautifully lit and such an intimate moment between Ellie and Dina. But on to the action.

[00:43:23] The infected in the subway was so scary, and I was yelling at Dina to stop looking back. It was straight out of a horror movie. I did have a brief flashback to Noah and that revolving door on The Walking Dead. Me too. But thankfully, Ellie saved it. Oh, gosh. Yeah. What a relief. There was no Nicholas around, so it was okay. What a relief for Ellie to finally share her secret with Dina, and likewise for Dina to share her secret of feelings for Ellie. The I'm going to be a dad line was so adorable.

[00:43:51] Of course, I'm sure this means something terrible is about to happen, because if these two seasons have taught me anything, it's that Ellie's not allowed any happiness for too long. The world that is left seems to be full of so many terrible groups of people. It makes me wonder when we... Are you talking about the current world or the show? No, I'm just kidding. The world that is left. It makes me wonder when we get down to the last of us, will it just be the worst of us? I like to think not. But these apocalyptic shows sure make it seem like that's the way it would be. P.S.

[00:44:19] Listening now, and when Jason mentioned American History X, immediately I made the exact same noise as Eric, and Lucy just made that noise too. That is one movie scene that I will never re-watch. Oh, man. I mean, that movie... It's funny. I was just thinking about that today because of that coming up, and it's like, that movie is like really showed us what an amazing actor Edward Norton is, right?

[00:44:44] And it's also the movie that made the world aware what a difficult person he is to work with as well. Apparently, the director tried to get his name off the whole thing, tried to be an Alan Smith-y film. They said no because he took over trying to... Yeah. Editing. Control freak, yeah. But what a movie. Good grief. In that scene. Yeah. Oh, man. No. I've never re-watched it since watching it once. And I think... Never again. That's the reaction you should have, not...

[00:45:14] Because it was almost the same thing that this guy was describing. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That, oh, he smashed him against the wall and his teeth flew out. I'm like, that's not something to chuckle about. No. Definitely not. And now we're like Isaac. Because we don't like that. Exactly. Wait a minute. We'll see what happens in 11 years. Yeah. We'll be burning someone's face off with a pan. Oh, my gosh. I'll be doing the pot wash. I'm a lover and a half-hater.

[00:45:44] So, Amber Lovo says, We're having a baby. I'm gonna be a dad. I laughed so hard. That episode was epic. The torture scene hurt my soul. The Dina and Ellie escape had me so scared. All those clickers. I was like, there's no way. They can't get out. It's impossible. The way Dina looked at Ellie after she got bit. The guitar playing and singing was so great. I definitely teared up a little. I'm glad they were finally honest about their feelings. Four hearts.

[00:46:12] I haven't played the game, so I had a feeling Dina was pregnant. The vomit trope that's been mentioned. Let's talk about that. But I wasn't. But I wasn't positive. Though after the pee at the pharmacy and the second round of vomit, I didn't need any more convincing. But what does this pregnancy actually mean? Ellie being so, oh, we're having a baby was an interesting reaction. It kind of shows her youth and immaturity. It's amazing that Ellie is supportive.

[00:46:41] But now that protector instinct is going to really ramp up. Bella is such a fantastic actor. They're really entertaining to watch. I think this was my favorite episode so far. What Dina and Ellie, what have Dina and Ellie gotten themselves into in Seattle? I'm terrified for them both, but so happy they're finally admitting their feelings to each other. I hope they get some sort of happy ending. Please don't spoil it for me if they don't.

[00:47:11] It's just wishful thinking, and I will be sad if this is another heartbreak. Dina is honestly my favorite character, though she really reminds me of Dora, all grown up, especially with the freaking math. With the math, that's right. No, she did. Yeah. I was actually listening back to the last episode we just did, and I think it was either you or Ben that referred to, not Isabella, not Dora,

[00:47:38] but Dora as their compass, Dina. And I realized she was a compass when she has the map, but she's using her finger to point exactly where it is. She's doing a little orientation out there. I'm like, oh, she is so Dora. And I got to say, Isabella Merced is killing it. Yes. I was a little critical over the last episode, just a couple little things, but that's not on her in any way, shape, or form. She has some of the greatest facial expressions I have ever seen.

[00:48:07] I mean, the moment when Tommy was saying, hey, you're going to get rendering duty if you ever hold back, and she made a face like, she really did want to, she makes just great faces, and I'm here for it. Absolutely love her. There's a little interview bit in the news with her, and she seems like a character too. I am with you though, Eric. She's far too clean for the state. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:48:32] I've honestly been feeling guilty for saying so during the episode. I was like, also like, yeah, I always think about these sex scenes on TV shows. I'm always like, oh God, they're so dirty. They're so, oh my God, someone's going to get, someone's going to get thrushed. It's like the only thought I have is, I'm like, I hope you picked up that. I was like, that's hilarious. The fact they brought up the monistat, I was like, oh God. Yeah, it should be dumb not to grab it.

[00:49:01] I watched it again last night because Jenny and Nico hadn't seen it, and I was thinking about what you said about her looking made up, and I agree, especially her hair looks so great, but I also think she just has one of those faces that looks good even when it's playing. Who's the dude, Nestor Carb, what's his name? Nestor Carb, no. Yes, with his eyeliner. It's not eyeliner. It's just the way his eyes look. So I thought of that as well. Again, my guilt in saying any of that.

[00:49:31] I was sitting there like, oh, well, I was watching it again. Maybe it's just her natural, maybe she just glows. It's that pregnancy glow. She's pregnant. That's the hit that she's pregnant. It's the pregnant glow. It's not makeup. There we go. Oh, man. It's solved. Rosie Cheats. That's how we should have known other than the puking. Just her glow. Just her glow. Totally unnecessary. Oh, my gosh. All right. Here's a call from Carissa. Hey, this is Carissa from Portland.

[00:50:01] Really good episode. So what the seraphites said to Isaac about how there are wolves that become seraphites, but there aren't seraphites that become wolves was interesting and reminded me of this book called Religion for Atheists. An author highlights research by an anthropologist who analyzed 19th century utopian communes in the United States. And the study found that 39% of religious communes were still functioning 20 years after their

[00:50:31] founding compared to only 6% of secular communities, suggesting that religious communities, because they're bound by rituals and beliefs, may foster stronger cohesion and resilience than secular communities. So I'm saying that more now just in my personal observations of, you know, secular people seeking spiritual fulfillment and exploring, you know, pagan beliefs or rituals, but not literally

[00:50:58] believing in a supernatural entity, which in my opinion, that supernatural belief is like the last thing on a really long list of things that legitimately help people to cope in life. You know, but if you ask a religious person, they would like argue you down that there is, you know, a supernatural being in the sky. So, um, and then onto Dina, I was right. And you know, what's interesting. I like how they connect, connect with the smells to her vomiting, because that's exactly how it happens a lot.

[00:51:27] I was pregnant twice and it's not just like funky smells. It can be like literally anything that triggers nausea and vomiting. Um, so anyway, pretty realistic. I was also irritated at Ellie's, um, or Dina's behavior with the queer baiting. But after seeing this episode, I'm seeing that, I think she was just clumsily trying to figure out how to tell Ellie that she had feelings for her. And, you know, a lot of things were getting in the way, you know, primarily Joel's death.

[00:51:56] Um, and so, you know, she's not perfect. Like all of us aren't perfect, you know? So, um, she has my empathy and it sounds like she, she's bisexual. But she wasn't given an opportunity to just explore her sexuality without interference. And so she just explored one side of her preference and not the other. And, you know, we still look at sexuality as very binary in my opinion. There's a lot of people on either side, but I think there's a lot of people in the middle

[00:52:26] that, you know, they're just attracted to a person and their sex or gender is incidental. Um, I was also initially taken aback by them suddenly like having sex. It just felt sudden to me. But then when I think back to like what was going on, like Dina was on an emotional rollercoaster and who knows how long Ellie was sleeping. I mean, she's immune, but her immune system is still fighting the virus off.

[00:52:53] So she might've been asleep for like 10 hours and she's sitting there having probably 50 nervous breakdowns. And so when she finally sees that Ellie is okay, she like, they needed that like physical release, um, in a form of lovemaking. So I get it. Um, anyway, great episode. Um, talk to you guys next week. Bye. Bye. One thing curse is that you said that I'm a little unclear on. You're talking about religious communities, how they stick together longer.

[00:53:23] They're bound by belief. And then you talked about that belief in a supernatural, uh, being and that that was on a, the last on a long line of on a long list that keeps them together or something, but they would argue against that. I wasn't sure exactly what you're saying. So I'd be curious to get a little more explanation of that. Cause I'm, I thought it was really fascinating. Absolutely. I can't get my head. I'm just thinking about Jonestown. I'm like, oh, I don't know. They didn't last too long as a religious community. Sorry.

[00:53:53] That's dark. Um, okay. Moving on. Gloria lettery Hernan says, well, first of all, I recorded a message and went to listen to it before I sent it and I couldn't hear it. I was so pissed. God asked my son to look at my Chromebook. So now I have to write it all out. Hold on one sec. Let me just say that the link on the website where you can record sometimes does that to people.

[00:54:19] And, um, I debate whether I should take it down or not, but I would really suggest as a preferred way of doing it is just record a message on every phone has a voice notes app or something and then email it to us. That is, then you won't lose messages like that. Just a little PSA. Excellent. All right. So now that I have to write it all out. Hi, Jason, Eric, Ben and Lucy. This is Gloria from Salem, Massachusetts. I loved this one so much.

[00:54:47] Of course, my favorite scene was the one of Ellie singing to Dina in the record store. And I believe that's where shimmer is. Thank God. She's safe with plenty of grass. I love the actor, Jeffrey Wright, but Isaac, what a sick piece of shit. Granted, those Federalist soldiers were total dicks, but they didn't deserve to die. I've heard of those special copper pots, but never could afford them. My mom had Revere wear that has copper, copper bottoms, which I still have now because they

[00:55:17] were made so well. They really last. And I'm 61. Ellie and Dina not recognizing what all the rainbows meant was hysterical. Of course, same-sex marriage wasn't even legal yet in 2003 when the outbreak first happened. And speaking as a lesbian, their first encounter, shall I say, did seem wicked rushed and was a definite normal emotional response. Yeah, they are teenagers, so hormones galore. I myself would rather take my time, but it was still a good scene.

[00:55:47] The stunning production design was amazing. Oh, by the way, Take On Me was heard in the mall in season one with Ellie and Riley on the escalator. Wonderful. Thank you. Will we see Abby again this season? Do you guys think? I hope so. Yeah, I hope so. The girls are headed towards Nora, but who knows if Abby is with her? I'm assuming Ellie will take them out one at a time. I don't know.

[00:56:13] Bella and Isabella's performances were awesome, especially in the train and when Ellie is trying to convince Dina not to shoot her. I can't believe we only have three more episodes. Can you guys answer a question? Why do the Seraphites scar their faces? Or is that a spoiler? That's it for me. Talk to you next week. Bye. I'm interested to know that too. Well, when Isaac was torturing the guy and he said, people join us every day from the

[00:56:41] wolves, they defect and come to us and take the holy mortification. I think that's what he meant. Like it's a ritual. I don't even. Is it explained in the game? I bet you it is somewhere. I don't recall. I'm sure it is somewhere. There's so much little things to read and stuff. Yeah. There's a lot of nuance. Yeah. I don't recall it being spelled out though, but yeah. Good question. Tam from Perth says, hi again, friends.

[00:57:07] Once more, this production crew gave so much with the detail of the sets and how nature really has taken over this world, taken over the world in the form of walking, screaming, running mushrooms, moss and creeping plants covering everything. Human nature down to kill or be killed and everyone we don't know is black or white, good or bad. So how these characters were introduced and then developed are all the shades of humanity with depth and feeling.

[00:57:32] I fell instantly in love with Isaac without even knowing if he's a good or bad or a good cook. Those are the criteria. Tam says, watching how Ellie explores continuously with purpose and intrigue, her innocence of being young still isn't completely gone. Her little gasp finding the guitar strings giving us a Joel throwback to something he was going to find once. And as she starts singing, she gave me a throwback to my own teen years.

[00:58:00] Me showing my age here and lack of gaming knowledge, but love of stories no matter where they come from. To quote Isaac, the strange benefits of the apocalypse. I also felt like I watched the remainder of the episode cheering these girls on, watching them navigate what they know and be bewildered by what they don't. Like the subway scene. Why are trains even underground? And their love and trust for each other. It's just very clever in so many ways. And to be an admitted twice offending recall to The Walking Dead, the turnstile gate scene

[00:58:28] matched the death of Noah for gore and anxiety. Ellie's protection instincts sure will make her a great dad. The show really is such a gift. And to be part of the podcastica community talking about it is so appreciated. Oh, thanks, Tam. Always good to hear from you. Here's a call from Jenny Ryan. Jenny. Hi, Jenny from Saskatoon here, just calling about The Last of Us. Quick question.

[00:58:53] If the mushroom illness was originally spread through tainted wheat flour, does this mean that the majority of the people who survived have a gluten intolerance? So I guess it's the one and only time having celiac disease benefited a person? Because otherwise I hear it is terrible. But I guess in the future where corn flour is de rigueur, celiac's for the win. Okay. Bye.

[00:59:25] In the first episode, they made a whole point. I mean, you had to watch it again. Yeah, but they were just luckily avoiding like she didn't want the cookies because there were raisins in them and Joel was on Atkins. And so it might be people with gluten intolerance and also just people who happen to avoid eating any biscuits. Oh, he also forgot to pick up the pancake mix for her birthday or for his birthday. Yeah. There are a lot of little things that kind of led there.

[00:59:54] And just for today, celiac disease saves lives. Andrea Abarka says, hi, Jason and Lucy and the rest of the cast of us crew. I'm not a gamer. So although I've been spoiled a little for the most part, I'm going in blind to all these episodes and they've caught me off guard every week. I love this episode. Bella's singing voice is so sweet and made me cry. Plus the cinematography was stunning. Everything else was so scary. I agree.

[01:00:22] This episode is definitely more savage than the walking dead. I'm sitting on the edge of my chair and almost every episode, the scene on the train reminded me of the scene in season 11 of the walking dead when they're trapped by the zombies in the train car until my superhero Daryl Daryl comes in like John Wick and saves them. No Daryl Wick this time though. But Ellie and Dina were total badasses. The infected and the last of us are way more scary than walking dead zombies. So that whole scene was terrifying. I got to agree with you on that.

[01:00:51] Dina and Ellie finally admitting their feelings melted my heart. There were some comments on Facebook that really bothered me about them. I won't repeat them here, but my sister's gay and I wish people would just stop being unkind. That's all I'll say about that. There's so many shitty comments about this series. If you find any message board that has that, just go outside and walk in the grass or something because it's not even worth engaging in my opinion.

[01:01:16] Before I go, I want to respond to someone who wrote in last week, Sam, the therapist. She was commenting on grief and Ellie smelling Joel's jacket. When my dad passed away, I would smell his shirts and still do now. And then trying to catch a lingering scent when I'm having a bad day. I was going through a difficult time when that episode aired and I literally broke when I saw that scene. I told my therapist about it the following week and she said almost the exact same thing Sam said about grief.

[01:01:44] My dad died almost five years ago, but the grief still hits me time and time again. I just wanted to say thank you to Sam and to you guys for allowing these conversations to happen. I'm a forever fan. You guys rock. Oh, thanks, Andrea. I hope Sam is hearing that right now. That's amazing. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Jeffrey Ashton says, greetings. This is Jeffrey Ashton from Houston, Texas, writing in with a little email and a bonus pun for all of you.

[01:02:13] I thought it was way too easy for Bella to fall asleep or that was way too easy for Ellie to fall asleep while a scowling Dina was pointing a gun at her face. I think it would be hard enough to sleep with a happy, smiling person just watching it. No, you're right. Yeah, that'd be hard. So yes, Ellie told Dina she was immune, but she should have been more persistent and made sure Dina actually understood.

[01:02:40] She should have taken the time to talk Dina down more. Ellie could have explained that she'd been bitten before and even mentioned how she covered it up with a tattoo and burned it like they discussed later in the episode. Or she could have said, I let the infected bite my arm because I knew I wouldn't die. And by the way, if Dina was convinced Ellie was going to die, a little thank you for sacrificing your life to save mine would have been appropriate. I agree.

[01:03:09] Ellie could have told Dina about why the Fireflies had Joel bring Ellie to the hospital, or she could have just stayed awake a little longer, told some jokes and acted like normal Ellie. But nope, Ellie just conks out like it's a Tuesday night. Dina probably would have calmed down if Ellie had tried harder or at least stayed awake longer. It doesn't make much sense that Ellie would lie and risk Dina getting hurt. Ellie wakes up the next morning totally refreshed. Dina, not so much.

[01:03:39] Not so much. Overall, I'm a little annoyed that Dina had to stay awake for so long under so much stress while Ellie slept like a baby. Still a great episode, but I was just curious what you think about Ellie conking out like that. And here's that pun I promised. What is the infected's favorite exercise? Playing a sport with a fun-gy. Fun- Oh, fun guy. Fun guy. Playing a sport with a fun guy.

[01:04:11] I love how offended he is. It's like Ellie's like, I'm just going to take a nap. You just sit there and do your thing. I'm tired. And not thanking her for... I mean, I think once she realized that Ellie wasn't going to die, to me it looked like she thanked her really well. Yes. Yes. She seemed grateful. I mean... She was mad that... Oh, you're... Okay, no.

[01:04:40] What he's saying is that before she knew that Ellie was immune, she should have just been grateful that she tried to save her life. But she was pissed. She's like, hey, don't kill yourself for me. Let me be the one to die. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but once she calmed down and realized it was all good... It seemed all right between the mouth of that. She thanked her. Yeah, very well. Yeah. All right. Here's a call from Archmaester Rennie. Archmaester Rennie here. And yes, I do have a PhD, but I also have on my resume that I once worked as a horse wrangler.

[01:05:10] So this is just a note about the care and feeding of poor Shimmer. So it is 862 miles from Jackson, Wyoming to Seattle. It would have taken them a long time, like more than a month, six weeks to get there. So that's a long ride for one horse hauling two people in all that gear. And when they take Shimmer into the music store, that's good. That's great.

[01:05:39] Safe place for Shimmer. But they don't even take the bit out of poor Shimmer's mouth. There's a scene where Shimmer grabs a bite of grass and horses can eat with bits in their mouths. That is true, but it is more difficult. Grass tends to get wound up in the bit. It's harder for them to chew. And that's a Western-style bridle with what are called shanks, which is the long metal pieces that go down beside Shimmer's mouth.

[01:06:06] So that makes it harder to crop grass close to the ground. They needed to take that bridle off so Shimmer could eat as much as possible in there and take off the saddle. Horses need to be unsaddled to give their backs a rest. And as a riding instructor I know says, horses did not evolve to carry us.

[01:06:33] And so we have to protect them for them to be able to carry us. So take the bridle off, take the saddle off. I know for plot reasons maybe they needed to be ready to leave at a moment's notice. But let's have some horse care here. Every other single thing about the episode was perfect. I'll just say I don't think Renny would like the game. No! No!

[01:07:03] No! Oh, I was thinking something very similar. We'll just leave it at that. Yeah. By the way, Renny, I gotta say, you had mentioned you and Lucy having a debate, a philosophical debate on The Last of Us and philosophy. And I took a look at that book. I'm like, oh, it's about 200-something pages. I'm gonna have to get in on this. I don't have any degree whatsoever. I don't care. Do it. Yeah. Oh, let's do it. Let's have a paddle. I love it. Yes. That'd be awesome.

[01:07:32] I have thoughts. They're not good, but I have thoughts. I have thoughts. You have to represent the non-PhD-having portion of our listenership. Absolutely. Yeah. What can I say? I mean, I probably say most of the dumb shit. So I'm like, sorry, what's happening? Who's that person? I think that might be true at all. I love it. I love it. Okay. Next one here is from Rinaldi Kalikst. I'm mixed on this episode.

[01:08:01] Sorry if this is long. I tried my best to trim this down. The good. Isaac's introduction and subsequent appearance interrogating Malcolm, the Seraphite slash Scar. Ellie using her immunity to protect Dina, which forces them to be completely honest with each other. Ellie and Dina's subway sequence escaping the clickers, attracted by the wolves' flares. Clever and exciting. The bad. I don't care about the wolves at all.

[01:08:29] I love Jeffrey Wright's performance, but I don't have any emotional investment in Isaac or his group. A naked unknown Seraphite played by an unrecognizable actor makes it hard to create a it's complex war on both sides angle with the Seraphite versus WLF storyline. I feel like a recognizable actor on the level of Jeffrey Wright or Caitlin Deaver on the Seraphite side would address this. The execution room sequence was hard to watch. I love hardcore violence.

[01:08:56] I watched John Bernthal's The Punisher in the MCU and tons of extreme violence on The Walking Dead. But seeing intestines hanging out of hanged WLF soldiers and then a WLF commander saying I'll shoot a scar child or baby in the head was too much. I guess seeing it in the game didn't bother me because it was pixelated character models, not real looking human models in live action.

[01:09:23] Ellie and Dina are in a committed romantic relationship, but they're still going to risk their lives to kill Abby and jeopardize their potential happy future. That's extremely dumb and selfish of them. I understand that this plot point mirrors Abby's friend's commitment to come with her to kill Joel, but Abby, as far as we know, isn't pregnant and isn't planning to have a baby with Owen or Manny. So she's not risking as much as Ellie and Dina.

[01:09:52] None of this is fair to Jesse, who even Dina admitted, despite their romance struggling to get off the ground, is still a good man who cares about her. Jesse has been nothing but a class act, stand-up guy. And yet there's no hesitation or second thoughts about the revenge mission based on Jesse's feelings. An argument could be made Ellie is even more selfish than Joel ever was. Final verdict. The good parts were done extremely well in terms of filming, writing, and acting.

[01:10:20] The bad parts were just extremely frustrating for me. If other people like these parts, I'm genuinely happy for you. But I need more from Mazin and Druckmann to be emotionally invested in these parts of the story. Thanks, Rinaldi. Seems like with that kind of stuff, Rinaldi, do you just expect to get it right away? Maybe the answer is that.

[01:10:46] But I think sometimes it takes a little time to get emotionally invested in new characters. It doesn't always just happen right off the bat, you know? But I don't know. Yeah. And this story is, I mean, this is not a spoiler. We already know that this story, particular story, is more than one season. Yeah. You know, this is a multi-season story. And yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:11:16] I mean, I'm giving it time, even as a game player. Like, I just feel like we need to let things play out before we decide too much, you know? But I guess on the other hand, there is a point where you're having this torture scene and you're like, I don't really care about either one of these people. Then that's probably something that the writers of this episode would not like to hear and wish that they had done something different to make people care, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's good to have that kind of insight from Rinaldi, though, as well. Yeah.

[01:11:45] To kind of see other people's heads around, you know? Yeah. For sure. He puts a lot of thought into everything that he does, especially if he's putting it out there into the universe. Uh-huh. Absolutely. Well, and he mentioned the game. Did he play the game? I think he did, yeah. Sounds like he did. Yeah, I think so. Okay. Yeah, so then he does know the story. So maybe he just thinks, yeah, it's not being represented well.

[01:12:09] But for me, there's some times watching this show where I'm like, well, I can't say because it's going to be a spoiler, but I'm just wondering, am I going to feel the same way I did as I played the game? Yeah. Because I'm not yet, but I'm sort of like, let's see how it plays out. You know? I'm not like, I'm not feeling it yet, so that means it failed. You know? I'm just sort of waiting. But I'm not trying to negate your comments, Rinaldi. I'm just trying to think it out myself.

[01:12:37] Because maybe, yeah, maybe you didn't feel what you thought you should have felt just watching this one scene. And that's totally valid. And dude, nobody can tell you what level of violence or gore that somebody should be comfortable with. You know? If I, if honestly, if I feel like if I had it my way, we should all be extraordinarily uncomfortable with all of the violence and not at all comfortable with lovemaking. Um, but. Right. That's in a different world that does not exist.

[01:13:06] We're all too comfortable with that. So if it goes too far, good for you. You know, seriously. I mean, I mean that seriously. Yeah. I agree with that. That tells me more that you're probably a better person than all of us. Yeah. Speaking for myself. Yeah. Everyone has their own things that wind them up and upset them or trigger them or whatever. And yeah, I also did quite interesting. Like what it is that makes you tick or makes you yuck or whatever.

[01:13:36] So yeah, it's really, really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, what have we got? Oh, we have Signe or Signe, um, Emily Lenebacan. Hope I didn't murder that name. Um, hey, my name is Signe. I've never written anything to a podcast before, but I found this one a few months ago and binged all the episodes on season one of The Last of Us. And now that season two is coming out, I thought I would share some thoughts. I have played the first game with my brother, but I'm waiting to play the second.

[01:14:04] I'm 17 and from Norway, by the way. Hello. Um, I ran straight home from school to watch this episode on Monday and was excited to find out we get to learn more about both the wolves and the scars. I think this part of the story is so interesting and loved the part where that wolf guy is torturing the Seraphite guy. Well, I didn't really love this scene. It was quite horrible to watch, but I thought it was interesting what the wolf said about who is to blame for the conflict between the groups. They go back and forth saying, you did this.

[01:14:32] So we responded with this, but we only did this because you did this. I think this really sums up one of the themes in the story as a whole and the cycle of violence, which you talked about previously. Everyone is just doing these horrible acts to each other and blaming it on the other person. They get so detached from the source of the issue that they can't even discuss right and wrong anymore. Maybe the conflict between the Seraphites and the wolves even mirrors Ellie and Abby's conflict. When we see a conflict like this from an outside perspective, we see that there might not be

[01:15:01] a right and wrong side. Both are doing some gruesome things. Whereas when we see the story from Ellie's perspective, we are inclined to think she is better than Abby. In reality, they are both mad because their father is dead. Craig and Neil should look into doing a spin-off where Abby and Ellie go to therapy camp together and learn to handle their grief. They are quite similar after all. I love that idea. Signe says, I almost died. Oh my God, I've got hiccups. I must be pregnant. Sorry.

[01:15:35] Oh no. Oh man. I almost died when Ellie started playing the guitar and singing. It was even more special because AHA is a Norwegian band. Love the representation. Bella did such a great job and I found myself having the same expression as Dina with tears streaming down my face. Also, she is pregnant? I listened to the previous episode where you were joking about it, but I did not expect it to be true. I'm so sorry, Signe.

[01:16:02] I'm so curious as to where the story is going with this. Hope Dina had a comfortable pregnancy or as comfortable as anyone can be in the apocalypse. I laughed and shed a little tear when Ellie said, I'm going to be a father. That was such a funny line. Wish Joel could have known. All right. That was all from me. I hope my writing was understandable. English is not my first language. You guys do a great job with the podcast. Excited to hear your takes on this episode. Bye. Oh my gosh. Signe. What a great letter. I know.

[01:16:32] That's hilarious. Also, I got to say, so I am very much American. However, my dad's father, they're Norwegian farmers in South Dakota. Oh no. And my name is Eric Featon. Featon, it's actually pronounced like deaver, long E in the front. Oh no. But everything about that name is Norwegian in origin, even though I am an American. I'm not Norwegian. I'm not one of these. I'm Norwegian, guys. So I don't know.

[01:17:01] I loved reading this or hearing this. It was fantastic. So thank you. That was fun. Oh, that's amazing. The thing you were saying about the two sides, the cycle of violence, the going back and forth. And one thing it got me thinking about, because you're right, or how pretty soon you forget about the source of the issue and you can't even discuss right and wrong anymore.

[01:17:22] And one thing that's interesting in these kinds of conflicts between groups or people is you think about it like, ah, no one's completely in the right and none of us are innocent. But also, a lot of times, maybe there is one group that's worse than the other one a little bit, you know? And so then, but then does it make it right? That's an even harder question, you know?

[01:17:47] Does it still make it right to continue this, trying to wipe each other out? And I would say, if you can find a peaceful solution even then, that would be good. But it makes it a lot harder, you know? And I'm not even saying which one of these two groups is right, the wolves or the seraphites. But I do think that, you know, you probably can never say that things are objectively equal. I gotta say, Signe's 17. What an insightful letter. Oh, yeah. That's great, man. Seriously. Oh, I know. Very impressed.

[01:18:17] Very impressed. Okay. Here's a call from Renee, who hasn't, I don't think, called in on The Last of Us yet. Renee. Amazing. This is Renee calling in about The Last of Us. I haven't called in because I'm not invested in The Last of Us like I am with The Walking Dead. And I guess my biggest qualm is there's not enough of the infected. In The Walking Dead, you see zombies all the time.

[01:18:45] Even though it's about people building and world building, you still see the zombies. But I wanted to say, I don't know which one, who said it? I just want to interrupt there. In the first season, Renee, there were several episodes without any infected. I think this season, there's been only one. But the first episode and this last one, there was tons. So I'm curious. The second episode, we had the whole horde. Yeah. That was the second one. Yeah.

[01:19:13] That was just incredible. So I wonder what you think about those scenes. I'd love to hear your take on those. Here we go. Yes. Whether it was Ben or whomever, the raisins don't belong in cookies. Raisins definitely belong in cookies. What they don't belong in is potato salad. She said they don't belong in potato salad. No, they don't. That's gross. When Ellie was playing the guitar, the ferns and ivory were beautiful.

[01:19:41] Nature is going to steal nature, regardless of whether the world is crumbling around it. Now, what I wanted to know is, in the game, did they show the man's peanut? Because I'm like, what in the world? And did they show Dina and Ellie getting it on with Ellie putting her hands down Dina's pants? Because I'm like, if so, The Last of Us is a very X-rated game.

[01:20:09] And Jason, I heard you mention that your son was playing the game. And I'm like, ooh. If they did all day in the game, that game is really, oh my gosh. Not judging. I'm just asking. Because I heard you say that. And I was like, what is going on? So, yeah, I'm kind of like Eric. I think it's a little bit backwards in this country how we're so desensitized to violence and yet so sensitive about sex.

[01:20:38] That said, both Bodhi and Nico have watched episodes of this show. And whenever there's anything too violent or sexy, we put our hands over Bodhi's eyes. Oh. Nico's 13. So, yeah, we're a little nervous about it. But the game didn't have, it had Ellie and Dina getting it on, but it wasn't quite, I don't think we saw anybody put their hand down anybody's pants. No. No, it wasn't quite like that. Yeah, yeah.

[01:21:07] I will say, though, there are a lot of infected in the game that are walking around hanging dong and completely naked. Oh, yeah. Especially bloaters. I mean, there's like. Oh, the bloaters. I think the torture victim was too. Yeah. But I wasn't. Yeah, probably. I didn't care about Nico, who's almost 14, seeing that at all. And Bodhi didn't watch this episode. So. Yeah, there was nothing sexual about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like with The Pit. By the way, oh my God. Lucy, you were watching The Pit, right? Yeah.

[01:21:36] I heard that on it last episode. That show is, it's an HBO show and it's realistic. And there's all sorts of genitals all over the place. Oh, everywhere. It's a genital. And there's so nothing sexualized about it. I mean, ultimately you're like, ew, God, no. Okay. All right. Here's the rest of Renee's call. The Last of Us or House of Dragons? Because this is bold. I'm not a gamer, but I did know that Joel was going to die.

[01:22:07] However, I didn't know that Dina was pregnant. I laughed because all I could think about was Laurie in The Walking Dead when she had Glenn to go out and get her pregnancy test. Rena, I definitely agree with you, girl, about the converse. They're cute, but definitely not comfortable. My goddaughter and I both wore them to Disney World. And by the end of the day, we both had blisters on our feet.

[01:22:29] And Rena, I cannot wait to strengthen things come back on because I started listening to you guys once I realized that you guys were a part of Podcastica. I love the fact that I have a group of people that I can engage with about my favorite shows. It's like Podcastica is the best ever. Like any show that I can think of, Podcastica is going to podcast on it. The type of shows that I like, let me say that.

[01:22:55] And for as the, when Joel died and Ellie was smelling his shirt, I still have my brother's jersey. And I have my auntie's purse and a house dress. And of course, the smell is gone because it's been years since, you know, they have left. But I still look at it sometimes, pull out my brother's jersey, my aunt's pocketbook, go through it, a house dress. And I think it was Sam that said that grief, you never get over it. You don't. You just learn to live with it because you have no choice.

[01:23:24] You either can go with them or, you know, or stay here. There's only two choices. So you have to learn to grieve and just move on and know that one day you're going to see your loved ones. And then I wanted to mention also about Reddit. I can, I despise those people over there at Reddit. It's like those folks are really psycho. The things that they say about that little girl and she is, Ellie is super cute. Bella, they is super cute.

[01:23:52] Like, I don't know why they say such ugly things. What is wrong with people in the world? It's like each day I lose hope in humanity. I'm telling you because it's like, where do these people come from? They, they, these people. I just have never seen anything like it before in my life. Totally get it. I thought Michonne got it bad on The Walking Dead. Oh, wow, man. It's just horrible. But you guys keep up the good work. Alrighty. Peace and love. Bye. Bye. Well said, Renee. Oh, my goodness.

[01:24:22] Oh, online anonymity brings out the truly best in people. Oh, truly. Truly. Keyboard warriors. Yeah. They hide behind screen names. I was going to Reddit, you know, just, I was getting ready for The Last of Us a couple, about a month before it started, played through the game again, just poking around on Reddit and saw all that stuff that you're talking about, Renee. And I was like, kind of like, oh, my God, this is horrible.

[01:24:51] And is the podcast going to be like this? And I should have known better that it's a certain group of people and it's not us. And I'm really thankful. And there are specifically two different subreddits. One is The Last of Us, and that is a generally decent place. Then there is The Last of Us 2, which is generally the absolute opposite of a decent place. It is an absolute pit of incels and angry people that are weird. I don't know.

[01:25:20] They're just, it sucks. Renee, you're right. It sucks. You have to remember, too, sometimes the worst of people, they're the loudest. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. It's a small minority. Small minority that just screams the loudest. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like they're bigger or there are more of them, but that's not the case. It just appears that way because they can't. Yeah. They don't speak in a normal voice. It's amplified.

[01:25:53] They're not going to be able to do that. They're not going to be able to do that. That's a bummer. Okay. Jenny from Jersey says, hello, my Last of Us friends. What an awesome episode. I love the flashback to 2018 Fedra and how Isaac turned on most of them except the innocent soldier and how we saw him all grown up later on. And he made the right choice. Did Isaac gas them or were they grenades? Grenades, right? Blew them up. Grenades, yeah. Yeah. As soon as Dina said, I'm going to pee, I knew exactly what she was going to do.

[01:26:23] I had no clue. Yeah. Steve Brown, I heard, picked up on that, too. I'm very surprised that Ellie and Dina did not know about the gay pride flags and colors. But now that I think about it, in 2003, gay pride flags were much less prevalent as it wasn't as accepted as it is now. Well, they weren't alive. That's why they don't know. They were born after the apocalypse. 2010. Bella is a pretty good singer. They have such a cute voice.

[01:26:50] I love how soft-spoken Isaac is and how nice and gentle he seems. And then, boom, he's burning the shit out of a scar. It was cool to see him lose his shit after gushing about William Sonoma as if the scar knows what that means. So, Dina has morning sickness at 12 plus weeks. She was pregnant when Joel died, correct? So, now we're at three months. And at the very least, morning sickness stops usually by 12 to 13 weeks. So, it's a bit strange. Not on TV.

[01:27:20] No. We don't know if she was pregnant then. She told Ellie that- I think she got pregnant in the three months that Ellie was. Yeah, she said she got back with Jesse. I'm going to have to require a detailed chart of Dina's cycle because I'm telling this one. That's all right. I do know that some women get morning sickness for most of their pregnancy. Thank goodness I wasn't one of those women. So, anything's possible. What the fuck is wrong with Seattle? LMAO. When I saw the flare waking up the mycelium, I knew this was going to get bad quick.

[01:27:49] The scenes between Ellie and Dina when Dina thought Ellie was infected were amazing. Loved the sex scene between Dina and Ellie. They both seem to know what they're doing. Finally. How funny was Ellie not knowing how to take a pregnancy test? So, we're all having a baby. I'm going to be a dad. How fucking adorable. I've been with you guys since The Walking Dead. I'm so glad you podcast on this show too. I listen every week. Love you, Lucy. You're my fave. Aww. Aww. Aww.

[01:28:19] You're my fave too. How sweet. I appreciate that. You're my favorite too. Here is Monica from Seattle. Hello, Cast of Us. This is Monica from Seattle. Man, episode four was just a rollercoaster for me. The graphs and moments I loved to hated was so up and down it looked like the Grand Tetons. Everything with Isaac was just chef's kiss. Amazing.

[01:28:49] But when Dina and Ellie kissed, it absolutely took me out of it. Which is too bad because I really wanted that moment to be where I'm fist pumping in the air like, yes! Yeah. Same. But instead I was like, what? That's dumb. I always hate in media where people do get together by suddenly smashing faces because it feels like a shortcut. And that's just not really happens how it happens in life. At least definitely not mine.

[01:29:18] But this one I really hated. There'd be so many follow-up questions and shock about the immunity or reliefs and hugs about crying, about knowing that Ellie is going to be okay. Which I think honestly would have been a way more natural way to transition to kissing. But how they did it just felt so forced. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[01:29:42] Then the morning after, when Dina's telling Ellie about her mom saying, no, you like boys and how she went through life after, I was just bawling. Bawling. Mm-hmm. If you remember, I called in last week and spoke about bisexual being murkier to parse through. Mm-hmm. Man, hearing that from Dina and that story just felt so true. And you never hear that experience and media reflected back to you.

[01:30:09] It was just so validating for my queer heart to like hear and experience. Mm-hmm. Then the pregnancy talk. I'm just going to be a dad. I'm going to be a dad. And that tear faucet turned off in a screeching halt. I mean, there is a U-Haul lesbian stereotype for a reason. But come on. No, how is this going to work talk? What does this mean with Jesse? No fear of a kid in the apocalypse.

[01:30:37] No fear of, oh shit, can I be a good parent? There was just way too much skipping over conversations and emotional processing to get them where they needed to be for the plot. I don't know. The writing was just so up and down. It seemed like there was parts where Craig Mazin was just like hungry or something and just threw something down so he could go get tacos. I mean, I like tacos too.

[01:31:05] But this episode just up and down. Anyway, thank you all. Have a good week. Don't get bit. Love it. Love it. I'm on the same page with you on all that. And then it was so up and down because there was some real, like I said on the other podcast when they were just laying together and Dina had her head on Ellie's shoulder. I thought that was really sweet.

[01:31:34] But a lot of it was just so jarring. And then another little element that I thought was honestly really dumb is, oh, we have morning breath. Let's eat beef jerky. Like, that's just stupid. So meaty. It's so gross. Yeah. So gross. Like, it's dumb. Like, what? No. Yeah, that was dumb. That was kind of, yeah. Bit of a misty, misty Quigley moment there. Really? Jerky? Can Monica answer, what the fuck is wrong with Seattle? Yeah.

[01:32:04] Tell us, Monica. Can you answer the question? Seattle's awesome in my experience. What's wrong with Seattle? So Karen Villalba says, hello, everyone. This is my first time writing in, but I've been listening since the first season of Yellow Jackets. Nice. Hi, Karen. Hope that you still enjoy it. Other than the official The Last of Us podcast with Troy Baker, yours is the only recap podcast I listen to.

[01:32:30] As someone who played both games when they came out, I really appreciate how balanced and thoughtful your commentary is with both gamer and non-gamer perspectives. There's so much to unpack from this episode, but the main thing I wanted to write in about is the Ellie and Dina storyline. My wife and I have loved Ellie and Dina since the beginning. Not just because I'm a lesbian and my wife is bi, but also because their dynamic, even more so in the show, resonates with us deeply.

[01:33:00] My wife is a therapist and I'm a paramedic, so in our relationship, I tend to jump into fix-it mode while she takes a step back to process and think things through. She's watched me play through the second game several times over the years. Gotta love someone who supports your special interests. See, I do that. I watch the game. It's a cool thing. And she definitely gets a kick out of Gale.

[01:33:26] We actually don't mind the changes the show has made to Ellie and Dina's story. No spoilers for future events, just comparing the differences between the game and the show up to this point. In the game, Ellie and Dina had already gotten together before leaving for Seattle. Once in Seattle, Ellie had faced more setbacks and dead ends that first day. Not to mention having to deal with so many more WLF members in the game versus the show.

[01:33:53] So when Dina reveals that she's pregnant and admits she had her suspicions weeks earlier but didn't say anything because she didn't want to be a burden. Ellie responds by telling her that she, in fact, is now a burden. It feels like the result of everything boiling over. But in the show, that kind of build up just hasn't happened yet. Ellie hasn't hit the same emotional wall. And if she had responded like she does in the game, I don't think show Dina would have stood for it.

[01:34:23] Especially considering how capable she's been so far and how Dina reacted to Ellie telling her she cost them time and let Abby and her crew get away in the last episode. I feel it makes sense for the direction in which the show is going. I just hope it pays off in the end. I think it will though. So far, I still trust Craig and Neil. As for them hooking up right after Dina reveals she's pregnant, we totally buy it. Especially in the context of an apocalypse.

[01:34:53] When death feels like it's always around the corner, emotions are heightened and the need for connection becomes urgent. Dina spent the whole night thinking she might lose Ellie, be forced to kill her, and then be left completely alone in a city where they've seen these two groups brutalize each other. Not to mention all the infected.

[01:35:12] So when that moment of relief hits and she realizes none of that has to happen, it makes sense that she would just explode into all this emotion and passion, giving herself to Ellie in every way she can. And honestly, my wife and I both agree. If Isabella Merced the actor just started making out with us like that, we'd be like, you're right, let's just talk about this in the morning too. Preach.

[01:35:38] Love you guys and can't wait for the rest of the season and hearing your takes on everything. Well, that was awesome. That's brilliant. Karen, definitely write in again. Yes, please. Be great to hear what you have to say. Yeah. Okay. One last call. Here is Robin. Hey guys, it's me. First of all, Lucy, I hear you on the pitch. So good, but so heavy. Hell yeah. To cover your eyes. Love it.

[01:36:06] This episode, so much horror, so much beauty. It's just, it's amazing how much they packed in there. My grandmother would say, Ellie and Dina are just too much, meaning they could not be more perfect. I just love them. They give me all sorts of reasons to hope. Um, so what about all these rainbows? I don't know.

[01:36:30] Maybe they're all just really optimistic and they have no idea of the significance of the rainbows to them, to their own lives. And Dina literally has a rainbow on her jacket. I just love that. But then we, then this Isaac character. Oh my goodness. And the scar guy, I'm an old lady. So I'm old enough to remember when you would never, ever see a completely human, naked human being on TV, especially a man, even on HBO premium cable, where they could push it a little bit farther.

[01:37:01] Um, I thought that Isaac, well, you know, at first I thought it was kind of like Chekhov's testicles. I thought, we don't know this guy either. It's possible he could hurt him there. And that level of vulnerability that they gave him, along with him being so skinny and having his head shaved and looking like a Holocaust survivor.

[01:37:25] I was so scared that Isaac was going to go too far and, and, you know, and hurt him there. But he went too far and killed him, which was, you know, worse, really. Um, the action and the, the bodies hanging there, Dina and Ellie being chased by the wolves and then being chased by the infected in the subway.

[01:37:49] I can't even imagine being in a subway, let alone trapped in a subway, being chased by the infected. Just doesn't want to be there at all. Oh man. Just clutching my hand so hard that they hurt when it was over. I mean, I'm going to really have a hard time even getting on the airport shuttle. Um, after that, it's just, it's crazy.

[01:38:09] Um, but then, you know, uh, Dina's face, the utter desolation on her face when she thought she was going to have to kill Ellie, especially after the beauty in her face during the guitar scene. I just thought, Oh my God, poor girl. She's just destroyed. But then she whips out for, uh, for pregnancy tests. I was like, yeah, Dina, been there. That one can't be right. This can't be right. This can't be right. Well, you gotta figure that it is.

[01:38:38] Um, I wish though that they hadn't had her throw up. They needed to have a woman to consult with. That's a guy thing. Women, a woman would have said to them, nah, don't do it. Just reveal it. Just reveal it. Don't have the, there's an option. That's, that's a little bit much. Don't bother with boobs. And then, you know, I'm going to be a dad. I thought, Oh, I wonder how Jesse will feel about sharing the dad duties. Yeah. I kind of thought about that too.

[01:39:03] I hope to see those three raise that baby, but something tells me that we're not going to, um, we're just, we're just not going to one way or the other. Anyway, we'll talk soon. Oh, wait, I have a, I have a pun. I had one last week and I forgot to, to say it, but this one, I have another one. And it's, it's relevant. Um, here we go. Where do bad rainbows go? To prism. It's a light sentence, but it gives them time to reflect.

[01:39:34] I like it. Oh, okay. That was a compound pun. Yeah, okay. That had layers. Yeah. Love it. Thanks, Robin. Good to see you. Robin. Amazing. All right. I will, I'll hop off before the news. Okay. Game talk. I did see on one of my many queer websites that, um, Isabella Merced has come out as being LGBTQ+. So, I don't know if that's in the news. Yeah.

[01:40:02] Because I thought that was quite nice. All right. All right. Thanks, Lucy. And we'll see you, uh, next time. You're not going to be on the next one, right? Or are you? You should come on if you want to. Yes. I think I'm going to. I need to work out because I'm traveling one week. I'll, I'll be in touch, but I will be on a main episode. I promise. Yeah. Yeah. We've got three more. So. Three more. All right. Lovely to see you all. All right. Great to see you. Bye Lucy.

[01:41:00] Infected news. So there's just one thing. It's, uh, some excerpts from an interview with Isabella Merced who plays Dina from Variety. They asked, was Bella Ramsey actually singing and playing Take On Me? She said, yeah, Bella Ramsey is a really talented musician and also has their own songs that they've written throughout the years. And I had the pleasure of getting to hear that behind the scenes. We would sometimes bring a guitar and play for each other.

[01:41:28] It sounds like a lot of fun. Nice. Yeah. They said the way Dina is looking at Ellie with such love, it feels so real. Can you talk about getting there? She said, I was so excited to shoot it. And then I was also really emotional because of the set design being so beautiful and it feeling a really, truly sweet and tender moment in the show after so much darkness and loss. So I was very emotional that day. And also maybe it was my first day of my period. I don't know.

[01:41:55] I think I remember it was whenever it's the first day of my period. I'm just a well of emotions. It was really hard for me not to cry and I'm always less is more. So less dialogue is better. If you can say it with your eyes, say it with your eyes and then less emotion on your face or holding it back is better. So I was struggling with that actually on the day because I wanted to reserve everything a little bit more. And at some point, even the director was like, Hey, maybe try not to cry. It was really, really hard for me. And so that was my struggle throughout the whole scene. Just trying not to cry.

[01:42:25] I noticed when watching it recently that there was a switch from the loving look to a sadness in my eyes. I was trying to remember what I was thinking. And I think it was just like, I wanted to incorporate that Dina isn't fearless. Really? She may seem like it. She may seem like she can handle a lot. And throughout the episode, you learn that she can't, but I wanted to give people a glimpse into that because love is scary. So for her to feel these emotions and then in real time, be scared of them was really important to me because I think that's realistic. I just thought all that was great. And the way it turned out was perfect. You know? Yeah.

[01:42:55] Oh, a hundred percent. You know, I can't read the giving, I can't read the giving tree aloud without getting all choked up and crying. I used to read it to my kids and I, but I not once have I ever been able to get through that book with that. It's like what? 40 pages, 30 pages. Some things just touch you. It's just how it is. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I, yeah, I like that. Like it's nice to feel something sometimes. Yeah.

[01:43:21] In the opposite of that scene's vibe, Dina and Ellie then come across disemboweled lynched people who've been killed by the scars. Did they have bodies there or were they put in later? She said that was actually fake bodies, but they looked really realistic and they were hung up on the wall and it was absolutely terrifying and disgusting and it really ruined my day to be there. Uncanny Valley is a term for a reason. The brain can only take so much false information that appears to be real. I thought that's really interesting because as Ben said last time, they showed in the back matter that they had real people.

[01:43:51] So either they were, they filmed two different setups or else she just thought they were fake, but they were actually real. She doesn't view extras as people. Yeah. It's like they were just background actors. I'm kidding. I'm joking. No, I don't know what happened there, but that's interesting. Talking about the experience filming the subway car sequence, she said, because of that experience, Bella and I ended up creating a secret language that was the sequence in which we created

[01:44:19] a secret sign language to just communicate with each other about what it is that we were comfortable with or uncomfortable with when it came to what they were asking of us. And then also if we needed to pee or if we needed to dot, dot, dot, they said, wait, wait, wait, what do you mean comfortable with physically? Yeah. Comfortable with physically. You don't ever want to be that one person that goes, Oh, actually I don't want to do that because then as a young woman, you risk a reputation. So we would have to really be allies for each other.

[01:44:49] You would go, well, we're going to both say that we don't want to do it. They said in terms of stunts. And she said, yeah. So you could tap in a stunt double at a certain point if you wanted to. Yeah, absolutely. They were always there. And most of the time HBO preferred that they did it. But Bella is someone very excited about the action and maybe it's because they're younger than me and I've been doing this for so long. I'm like, I don't get paid to do stuff. So I'm good. There's somebody who has that job for a reason. I just thought it was kind of interesting to hear a little details.

[01:45:19] The only other thing that I have here is they said, do you know when they're starting production on season three? And she said, no, but I think it should be next year, which is kind of a bummer. I was hoping she would say this year. So maybe we could get it next year. But I do think the fact that they're, if they're actually planning on starting it next year means it'll be another two years before we get season three.

[01:45:46] I don't like these log waits in between, I guess, because I think, okay, you've got a hit show. Why are you not like preparing and ready to take a couple months off and then start again? It's the same thing. House of the Dragon and other shows like that. I wonder if they're like, if we make it every two years, then everyone who likes The Last of Us will stay subscribed for two years waiting for it to come back or something. Maybe.

[01:46:13] Because they forget that they've subscribed and they don't cancel it like me. Well, I know this is not the Pit cast, but I got to bring up the Pit once again because they just finished their first season and their second season starts January of next year. Is it good production values? I assume so. Extraordinary. It's like 24, but in an ER. It's 15 hours in an ER. It's one shift.

[01:46:37] So every hour of the series is one hour of extremely high production value. Right, right. Like how The Last of Us is the HBO version of The Walking Dead in some senses. This is the HBO version of ER. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's cool. And they're getting sued for it because of it. Yeah, they are. They are. Because who is playing the lead doctor? No, it was originally. Of course, right? Carter. And it was originally supposed to be a reboot of ER with Dr. Carter.

[01:47:05] Well, maybe we should do a Pit cast and we could talk about it on there. Maybe we should because it seems like a lot of people are into it. Dude, I would be all over that. I love that shit. Let's talk. So for now, let's move into game talk. Just moved in, moved some of the messages that were a little more game centered to this segment. Not a lot of spoileriness, but some. So if you don't want any game spoilers, you probably shouldn't keep listening. One thing that is different from the game that I'm not sure we caught when we podcasted last time. We did not. Nope.

[01:47:36] Is Dina and Jesse, I think, are still supposed to be together, at least as far as he knows. I think she's cheating on him. And that was not the case in the game. In the game, they had broken up and then Ellie and Dina kissed at the dance and then they left to go find Abby. Just pretty soon after that. But here there's been three months and apparently Dina got back together with Jesse and right. So, yeah, I am curious, Daphne.

[01:48:04] What what are your thoughts on the changes to the timeline with Ellie and Dina's relationship? Kind of moving it this far back? I'm OK with it. I think that with TV, you have to take some liberties to try to make it more compelling for the audience that's watching. And some things just don't like you have to have time to build that a little bit. And I think in this case, it was the right choice. Cool. I'm good with that.

[01:48:34] I think that. Because the changes that they've made overall to me are not game changers as far as like taking me out of it and have me thinking, oh, well, you know, in the game, it was this way. And it needs to be. It's not going to work. It doesn't always translate. Yeah. It's not going to work. It had it had to change. So I'm OK with that, I think. And plus, I trust Craig Mazin.

[01:49:02] He gave us Chernobyl, which is one of the best series ever. And there's been talk about doing a Red Dead series, and I would trust him to do it. I'm not sure about it. I'm not. Well, yeah, that would be. I'm very protective of that. Have they said who might be involved? No. It's just been talked about. They've been talking about casting for like the main parts. And I'm like, nope, nope.

[01:49:32] That person cannot play Arthur Morgan. That is not Arthur Morgan. Nope. Ryan Gosling as Arthur Morgan. No way. OK, let's get into the feedback. I think it's your turn, Eric. Oh, sure thing. First one we have here is from Wyman Owen. The way that Isaac was introduced was genius. Either I was oblivious playing the game, but I had no clue he was with Fedra first. Shows us right from the get-go how ruthless he is.

[01:50:01] Lots of great game moments and scenes. Weston's pharmacy looked awesome. The scene at the TV station looked way more brutal in the show. I don't remember the wolves that were strung up with their insides hanging out on their outsides. They were there on the show. Yeah, they were there. Yuck. But also awesome. The subway, almost identical to the game. I did enjoy the slight changes. Made it more intense for me. The horde chasing Ellie and Dina through the train cars and up the escalator. Wild!

[01:50:31] And the immunity reveal was fantastic. Dina looked so confused and full of despair as to what had just happened when Ellie got bit. Whoops! I blew past the music shop. So elegantly done. Beautiful even. I was hoping for Ellie to play bits of the other song. I'm sure it's coming later. Or not. The changes keep me guessing, which I find I'm enjoying quite a bit. And when Ellie said, I'm going to be a dad, that cracked me up.

[01:50:59] And they got word of where Nora is. And it looks like they're both going to head out to find her. Another slight deviation. And I'm thrilled to see how that journey will unfold. I love the game I played. And I'm loving the show that I watch. It doesn't need to be exactly the same to just be brilliant. Yep. Here's my pun. And it fits to the show, mostly. My horse will only come out of her stable after dark. She's becoming a nightmare.

[01:51:33] Talk to you all next week. Bye! Bye! Oh! That's one thing I didn't think of is, yeah, that it's different. That Ellie and Dina both went off to find Nora. Yeah, that's right. And it was just Ellie in the game. That'll be different. Yeah, that's going to change, maybe change that dynamic a bit. Right. And how it plays out. Yeah. Dina might witness something. Ricky White says, hello, everyone. The set designs were incredible. This episode felt so much like the game.

[01:52:01] I almost reached for my controller during the subway tunnel scene. Yes! The brewing tension from the TV station on. I know this story, right? Why am I getting so anxious? Me too, man. I haven't felt this tense watching a show in a while that I can remember. Isaac was cunning, insightful, and ruthless. I hope we continue to see a more expanded approach to the character. Me too. The seraphite radiated heartbreaking stoicism. The devotion to his interpretation of their religion and his unwavering conviction until the end was chilling.

[01:52:30] It started to paint this faction as a threat, which was confirmed at the TV station. The music store was wonderful. I'm happy they included it. It's one of my favorite moments from the game. Dina really sold that moment for me. Such a beautiful performance by Isabella Merced. The subway was so intense. So many infected. Dina going into listening mode and quickly realizing they were in trouble had me laughing a bit. But I'm okay with the change in the immunity revelation. That follow-up moment in the theater felt really raw, perhaps a little jarring.

[01:53:00] I can understand the need for human connection after those traumatic moments of perceived loss, though. They finally see each other for who they truly are. No more games. No more hiding. Just vulnerability amidst an apocalypse. This episode flew by, but I can't wait for the next episode. Until then, don't get bit. Thanks for everything you do, Ricky. That was a really pleasure to read, Ricky. That was so well written. That was nice. Yeah. Yeah. Billy Thompson says, Hello, hello. Hope you guys are well. Great start to this episode.

[01:53:29] Always great to get extra lore. I completely agree with someone that wrote in last week that it should be one-to-one plus the game. Also great seeing Jeffrey Wright reprising his role as Isaac. I'm not sure if anyone has said this in the feedback yet, but I saw a picture online of Dina wearing her coat from the show and Clementine from the Telltale Games wearing a similar one. Not 100% sure if this is an intentional nod, but I'd like to think it is. Wait, what are they saying?

[01:53:58] That Clementine's coat is the same as Clementine's. Okay. I don't know. Okay. That's interesting. I'm going to have to go look up this picture now. I'm going to look up Clementine right now. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Woohoo. It says Seattle Day 1, just like in the games. And Weston's Pharmacy logo. God, I love this show. I'm just so happy they are doing this adaptation properly. So many game to TV movies didn't. You just have to take your hat off to them.

[01:54:29] OMG, the music shop scene, no fucking way. Such a beautiful scene. The sun beaming in. The overgrown store, just so beautiful. The way I saw this scene was they both had a moment of realization. I think Dina's was she loves Ellie, and I think Ellie's was that she almost sang that song to Joel in a way. Goosebumps all over one of my favorite scenes thus far.

[01:54:52] After writing an entire paragraph on how Dina took me out of this episode with her almost happy-go-lucky people-to-kill line, followed by a smile, and how I felt the series maybe wasn't intense or violent enough compared to the game. This episode made me eat my words. The rest of the episode was all that. The TV satellite building scene was exactly what I think this series needed.

[01:55:17] Ellie's intense look at Dina when she asked what they should do if they run into wolves that aren't Abby and co. The body strung up and Ellie taking out the wolf soldier with a stab to the neck. Don't get me started on the underground scene with all those infected, and the torture scene with Isaac was so intense. Overall, great episode. Absolutely on par with the best of them. I'm not sure if it was accidental, but last week you guys only read half my feedback.

[01:55:43] I'm hoping I didn't say anything wrong, and that was the reason why. Anyway, guys, thanks. Bye! I don't remember, but I think maybe if we read it during the main part and you had some game stuff, I might have left that out because I forgot to move it to the game section, but I'm not sure, Billy. I don't really remember. I'll have to look that up, but you didn't offend anyone. I know that for sure. So, yeah, and I did look up the... Let's see if I can get it to... Oh, wait. That's a comparison?

[01:56:14] Yeah, it's all blurry. No, this is the Clementine jacket. Oh, okay. There we go. Yeah, there's the Clementine jacket. All right. So, I can see that there might be a similarity. Maybe there's a homage going on there. Yeah. Yeah. Could be. Cool. Not that far-fetched. Just so people know, this is the last email coming up here, and it's a little bit more spoilery for some future things in the game. So, if you haven't played the game and you don't want spoilers, you'd probably just stop listening. Thank you. All right.

[01:56:43] Next one here is Casey from Detroit. Hey, Podcastica crew. First time emailing. I'm a newish listener. I found you after The Walking Dead ended, and, like many new fans, I started from the beginning and never stopped. Wow. I miss Karen, but Lucy has been an amazing addition to the Podcastica family. It was incredible hearing about the life changes all of the hosts and fans have gone through over the years, all while I binged the episodes in a few weeks.

[01:57:11] I listened to the majority of what Podcastica puts out. You've got a forever fan. Thank you. Wow. That's so weird then. So, he even heard me going from Mr. Blog to now. So, that's fun. Now to the matter at hand. I wanted to share some thoughts on the Ellie and Dina relationship and why I think the show has handled the relationship better than the game. In the game, Ellie and Dina kiss for the first time the night before Joel dies.

[01:57:40] The same night, Ellie comes to an understanding with Joel, and they begin mending their relationship. Then they both go out to Seattle the next, yes, the next day, yes, to bring Tommy back. But you know that's not what Ellie is going for. Quick aside, if they don't put the porch scene in this season, we won't get it until 2027. That's why I'm glad Abby's goal is in the first episode. I do agree with that. In the game, Ellie and Dina's relationship feels abrupt.

[01:58:07] Not because it doesn't work, but because there's emotional context missing. Sure, we know they've known each other for years, but that's mostly told through optional dialogue. And Ellie's journal, which players do miss. And as of episode four, the TV audience hasn't needed a journal or missable dialogue to understand the dynamic. It's all there on screen. I think the show nails it right from the beginning. In the first episode, two things are immediately clear. One, Ellie and Dina are already close.

[01:58:36] Close enough for Joel to call Dina kiddo, which to me says a lot. Two, they obviously are falling for each other, but probably have been for years. Dina had to embrace who she is, and that was the night of the dance. That was her first kiss with a girl, and it's with her obviously in love with her best friend. She knows what she's feeling in that moment will be reciprocated by Ellie. It feels like we're watching a proper best friends to lover arc take shape.

[01:59:04] When Joel dies in episode two, the major difference this time is that Dina is there. That, to me, gives her a stronger and more personal motivation than what we got in the game. She's not just tagging along because Ellie needs a companion to help through levels. She's grieving Joel too, and she's falling for Ellie. It adds so much to the depth in their relationship. Then there's the tent scene. When Dina starts talking, she's trying to have a totally different conversation, but Ellie says it meant nothing.

[01:59:34] Dina responds with, no, I know that. And from that moment, they're both lying. Ellie says it meant nothing to protect herself from rejection. And Dina, because the person she might love, just dismissed the first meaningful moment they shared. Good point. They both want to be loved by the other, but they're too afraid to say it. To young adults, it's painful and honest and real. That's why I love episode four so much. It all comes together.

[02:00:03] While Dina is being serenaded, you can see her fully fall in love with Ellie right then and there. She knows she's pregnant, and she knows this is the person she wants to raise a child with. It's such an optimistic, youthful vision of love. They really believe they can take out the Salt Lake crew and just go back to Jackson and have a happy life. Then Ellie gets bit, and everything Dina just dreamed about instantly taken from her, and she has to be the one to do it.

[02:00:30] But hours later, she finds out it's still possible. Ellie's immune. The life she wants might be still within reach. Dina had nothing holding her want of Ellie back, and she knows Ellie will reciprocate because Ellie's obvious. It's real, vulnerable, and beautifully written. The conversation they have after waking up with one another is what is going to make the farm scenes heartbreaking so much later, especially for Dina.

[02:00:57] Dina wants to raise a baby with Ellie, and Ellie is all in. Ellie finally saves somebody she loves most in this world with her immunity. When Ellie leaves to Santa Barbara, we'll understand why, but we'll hate that she does. Dina has a happy family with Ellie, and losing Ellie to her obsession with revenge is going to cut even deeper. Some thoughts on Tommy. Who's to say he hasn't already left?

[02:01:25] He's obviously voted yes, and you can see he's pissed at the outcome. He's absolutely gone to Seattle, and I think Maria is sending Jesse after the three of them. My approach to the show is this. Joel has to die, and Abby has to live. Everything in between? Let the showrunners take creative liberties. If you want the game, play the game. If you're watching the show, give it space to grow. I love The Last of Us Part 2 for what it is, and I'm loving Season 2 for what it is. Thanks again for the podcast.

[02:01:54] I always enjoy hearing everyone's takes. Wow. Wow. That was a very thoughtful letter. I really enjoy that. And another newer, like, first time writing in. Yeah. I feel like in this episode, there's been a lot of folks doing that, and I hope that they do it again, because especially it's so thoughtful, like considering things. Yeah. And I agree with you, Casey.

[02:02:23] Even though I really love Ellie and Dina as a couple in the game, it does kind of lead you to it and make you feel how it started. The show does that a little bit better, I would say, than the game, just for all the reasons that you mentioned here. I mean, they're both great, but I agree with what you're saying. And I love this line, Ellie finally saved someone she loved most in this world with her immunity. That's pretty cool. Yeah.

[02:02:47] No, it's honestly, this email kind of has shifted my feelings on the whole thing. I'm honest, or I'm like, okay. Okay, maybe so, yeah. You put it really well. I mean, I'm willing to be swayed. That's awesome. That's great. All right. That is our show, episode 642. Thanks so much for listening, everyone. Thank you, Daphne, for coming on. It was great to have you come join us.

[02:03:17] Thanks for having me. So much fun. It was so good. I had such a great time. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. It was so great. I'm glad that I had a chance to do it. Good. Yeah, me too. And come listen to us on Handmaid's Tale, everyone, if you haven't already. It's been a pretty good season, final season of that show. Yeah. Next episode of this podcast will be The Last of Us, season two, episode five. If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at thecastofus.com.

[02:03:46] And while you're there, please check out our other podcasts. Handmaid's Tale. Plus, tell us a little bit about your other podcast. Run for Your Lives. It is a movie podcast focused on disaster films, horror movies, monster movies. Things you want to run away from. Yeah. Things you want to run away from. We've done about 200 episodes, and I still feel like we've only just touched the surface

[02:04:13] of all the movies that are out there for us to do. So it's me and Paik, who is a co-host on Strange Indeed also. And so, yeah, we're coming up on five years of podcasting. And yeah, we have a lot of fun. This past week, we did Children of the Corn, which terrified me. Malachi. Oh, gosh. Isaac scared me like so bad.

[02:04:42] I got to tell you, one of my greatest guilty pleasures is pretty much any Roland Emmerich movie. If Roland Emmerich is going to destroy the world, I'm in. Because he does it so well, right? He does it joyfully. 10,000 BC is the only one of his where I'm like, ooh, no, I can't watch that one. No, I have not seen it because I heard so many bad things about it. It's terrible. But I mean, I'm even down with Moonfall. That's a terrible movie, and I love it. I will watch it every time it's on. I'm like, oh, yes.

[02:05:11] Go inside the hollow moon. I love it. It's great. It's crazy. We covered it, and we had so much fun with it. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. There is always something that you can find to love, even if it seems like it's a kitschy movie or something. I mean, Tremors is your guys' life plug. Well, that is true. That is true. It was our first episode ever.

[02:05:34] No, my wife and I watched 2012 when it started up on cable, and it just became background noise for us. It was just always on. I'd always watch it any time it's on. Not realizing, one of my kids were really, they were quite young, and I wasn't noticing that they were watching this as well. And apparently it gave them horrible nightmares, and they're terrified of this movie. And it's kind of a running joke now. I'll be like, hey, look, 2012 is on. Want to watch it? And I'm like, no. No, no. It always makes me laugh. Yeah. I like the day after tomorrow.

[02:06:03] I think that's probably my favorite one. That's a good one. So thank you to Christina. Like many listeners of this podcast, Christina also has her own podcast. It's called Black Girl Couch Reviews, where she talks about all kinds of TV shows and movies. I see she has a 4.9 out of 5 rating on Apple Podcasts and close to 1,000 episodes on there.

[02:06:32] So check her out. Wow. I thought 200 was great. I know. It's insane. I was excited to get to 200. So, yeah. There's a lot more to come. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. Don't get bit, Jeffrey Ashton.