654: 28 Days Later (2002)

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[00:00:31] Ja, ich bin gut, sweetheart. Sorry, ich habe mich sehr, sehr. Hannah, ich liebe dich sehr. Was? Keep away from me. Stay where you are. Dad? Keep away from me! Dad? Keep away from me! Keep away from me!

[00:01:57] Hey Zed Heads, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Lucy. And I'm Karen. Karen! And this is the Cast of Us episode 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And this episode we're covering the 2002 horror classic, 28 Days Later, starring Cillian Murphy and Naomi Harris, written by Alex Garland and directed by Danny Boyle. I wanted to give you the Cillian Murphy so you could teach us how to say it real quick. Yes! Cillian Murphy! Yes!

[00:02:28] Is that... Is it a British name? Irish. Irish. Oh, okay. Yeah. Cillian is Irish. Irish. Yeah. And I think it's Cillian. I apologize to my Irish friends if it's not. I think you're right. But yeah. Derek, let us know. Well, welcome, Karen. Glad you wanted to talk about this. How are you doing? Thank you. I always want to hang out with my two favorite people. Things are going great.

[00:02:57] Pittsburgh is being Pittsburgh and I'm loving it. It's such a terrific place. I'll shut up about Pittsburgh eventually, but for right now... No, I don't think so. I got it. I got to tell you, I'm loving it. Good. I love that. I'm so happy to hear that. We found out that Alex Garland and Danny Boyle were going to get together and do another 28 movie, 28 Days Later sequel, 28 Years Later.

[00:03:26] It's coming out this next Friday, the 20th of June. But we found this out months ago and I'm like looking back to see which episode we'd done our 28 Days Later coverage on so I could post it for people in anticipation of this and I couldn't find it. And then I realized we never did cover it. That's crazy, right? When did we start podcasting? 1974. It feels like it.

[00:03:54] No, I mean we started in 2010, but we covered a lot of older movies. Yeah, we did cover classic. What surprising. We did 28 weeks later. Because I liked that better at the time actually. But anyway, I'm like, okay, well let's do it now. Lucy said she was into it, so we're doing it now and then we're also going to come back in like a week and a half or something and cover the 28 Years Later movie that's coming out. I can't wait.

[00:04:20] Jason, I fully respect that you don't watch trailers, but I just think you should watch the trailer for 28 years. You always say that. I know. I will watch it as soon as I watch the movie. It is. Yeah, it's like a film in and of itself. It's so good. I've held out this long so I can wait another week and then watch the movie and then I'll watch the trailer. And then watch the trailer. Yeah. I have to say the music and the trailer made me stressed. It's just scary. I could feel my stress levels rise just because of the music.

[00:04:49] This movie, I could see that because this movie is freaking terrifying in parts and super stressful. Well, before we get into our thoughts on it, Karen, would you like to read the plot summary? Sure. So, plot summary is this. It's 28 days after a deadly rage virus is unleashed from a lab by animal rights activists. Sorry, animal rights activists. I feel bad about that. Society in Britain has collapsed.

[00:05:18] This is an anti-animal rights activist movie. Just leave them alone, people. Jim, a bicycle courier who wakes up from a coma in an abandoned London hospital, discovers a world overrun by violent infected. He joins survivors, Selina and Mark, and later a father-daughter duo, Frank and Hannah, on a journey to find sanctuary.

[00:05:44] When they reach a military outpost, they realize the real danger may be the soldiers themselves who plan to use women to repopulate the world. Jim fights back, unleashing an infected soldier to take down the corrupt unit. Wounded but alive, he escapes with Selina and Hannah. Weeks later, the trio signals a passing jet from a countryside cottage, holding on to hope that rescue and recovery might finally be on the horizon. And that's what happened.

[00:06:14] I did say when the animal protesters broke in, I went, oh no, it was a Karen. And they just said, like, a Karen. I meant like, a Karen Coppett. And then Peter was like, yeah, Karen doesn't come out of this looking real wild, does she? He did point out, though, because this is something he was like, bring this, I think Peter's like at the door, like, I want to be on this podcast.

[00:06:36] He pointed out that in the UK at that time, early 2000s, 2001, 2002, there was a lot in the press about animal rights activists. Like, it was actually super timely in 2002. I know, like, the storyline's probably been used and reused again of this idea of, like, experiments in a lab. But there were, like, cases and things like that of people, there was a real sort of assault on animal testing.

[00:07:03] So that it's one of the ways in which I think the film is 23 years old now, but at the time was really on point about things that were happening in the world. Yeah, exactly. I think it still, in a lot of ways, is. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we'll get into that. Yep. Well, let's get into it. What did you guys think? How was it to go back and watch it in general? Did you already come in liking it? And did you like it any more or less after you watched it again? Did we watch it together, Jason? We might have.

[00:07:32] I feel like it's one of the ones we saw together. No, because, no, well, I don't think so, because I think, well, maybe. Yeah, actually, we might have, yes. Yeah. That would track timing-wise, because we'd met like a year before that. Yeah, what did? We probably did. That was so fun when we watched it together. Remember that? Just kidding. Yeah. Yeah, we probably did. And I mean, I always loved it, but what about you guys? I want to hear what you think first. Lucy? Lucy.

[00:07:59] I've been thinking a lot about toxic relationships because I remember, I don't know if this is like a thing that happens, but there's a certain type of person who, and I don't know if it was a very naughties phenomenon or a 2010s phenomenon, but there's this idea like, particularly when you're in your late teens, early twenties, you get together with someone and they're like, oh, you don't know this film? Oh, you don't know that band? It's cool. I'll write you a list. Like, it's like, here's the list of shit you need to watch to make yourself cool.

[00:08:28] So unfortunately I knew someone like this and this film was on that list. But I remember, despite it being on the terrible list of things I needed to watch to make myself cool, some of which was terrible by the way, I really enjoyed this film. So it was really nice to go back and rewatch it and be like, ah, I'm in a better place watching this. And it ignited a lot of my love for kind of particular sort of zombie genre films rather than just post-apocalyptic.

[00:08:54] So I enjoyed it. I felt very, um, it felt dated just in terms of the visuals of it. I think the storyline and the acting and everything that happens in it have so many parallels with now, but there were some elements of looking at it where I was like, oh, wow, this is really like early noughties Britain. Like even just like the branding on the vending machines and Cillian Murphy looking like about 12 and stuff. So it was quite enjoyable. Do you know those sodas? I forget what they are now. Yes, Lilt. Lilt.

[00:09:21] Yep. And then he asked for a Tango or something. Oh, there was an iron brew there? There was an iron brew! I saw that, I wrote it down. Tango. Yep. Tango still exists. It's less frequent now. Tango and Lilt actually you don't get as often, but they're very good. So yeah, I was a bit like, and fun fact, the reason that you see lottery concessions a lot in this film, um, like lottery tickets is because the national lottery actually funds a lot of art in the UK, like media and film and things like that.

[00:09:50] And at the time they were one of the big funders of the film board. So part of the deal was they had to feature lottery stuff here and there in it. So I thought that was quite funny. I was like, oh, well, cool product placement. But yeah, no, it was good to come back away from the toxicity and be like, some films are actually worth the hype. And this is one of them. You saw it on your terms. I did. Exactly. How about you, Karen? I really enjoyed it again. I was wondering if it would hold up and I felt like it did in many, many ways.

[00:10:19] In some ways, it was also a little hard to watch some of the, some of the things when we got to the soldiers, that was hard to watch. Those things are always hard for me to watch, but I really love it. I think this is the film that a lot of the modern zombie stuff comes from. Yeah. So I watch it and I think, oh, The Walking Dead. Yeah. At the beginning, it's, it feels very much like, yeah, very much like I'm watching The Walking Dead, which I love.

[00:10:49] So, so I did love it, but, but not a hundred percent of the way through. I love some things more than others. Some bits were hard to watch for sure. I don't know what you're talking about. I thought it was fine. No, I refer to this movie a lot, given that we've done this zombie podcast, but I really don't. I realized I haven't seen it in years.

[00:11:15] I don't know when's the last time I seen it, but it's been at least a decade, probably, you know, 15 years, something like that. And I remembered almost nothing. I was actually kind of shocked at how little I remembered. But I loved how vicious and intense and terrifying it was and moments of lightness, sublimeness, even. I thought it had a real authentic feel to it, which I think is one of the things that set it apart from the campy zombie. I was just a little bit, you know, I don't know, I'm going to be a little bit of a little bit of a gritty stuff that was around.

[00:11:45] I love the gritty style. I thought the acting was really good. I forgot how good Cillian Murphy was, too. He was so good. I never liked the ending, the whole third act, final act, with the soldiers. And I did remember going, you know, I remember loving this movie until it got to this part. And then I didn't like it for some reason, but I can't remember why. I'm like, I know Chris Eccleston went on to become Doctor Who shortly after. And I thought he was fantastic in that. So I thought maybe that would change my mind about it.

[00:12:15] And then I watched it. I'm like, no, I remember why I didn't like it now. It's fucking disturbing and horrible. He's incredible in this role. Like the bit I always remember about this film is the line, I promise them women. Like that's the line that sticks with me to this day. See, I didn't remember anything about that. Oh my God, no. I just remember a feeling of openness and freedom and terror in the beginning and then claustrophobia and control at the end. But I forgot that it was about trying to trap these women and force them into being sex slaves.

[00:12:44] And I have a whole thing about my evaluation of that now that I'll say later in the podcast, but it still is not fun to watch at all. But, and also it's one of these things, like you said, Karen, it doesn't feel as fresh anymore because it's had so many imitators afterwards. It's like Citizen Kane, you know, you go back and watch that and like every movie is like that, but it's like not, this was the first one. And there's a lot of things that started here.

[00:13:09] And I found so much more similarity with The Walking Dead than just the whole coma thing. Yeah. Just a lot. And I think Walking Dead owes a lot to this particular movie as much as it owes to the Romero movies, which I thought was really interesting. So I liked it. I was wondering, Lucy, if you felt kind of a little bit of a kinship with it or maybe a pride because it's a UK thing or not really? Sort of.

[00:13:36] Yeah, I think it's, it's a really strong bit of filmmaking, I think. And I think what you were saying about it feeling authentic, you used a better, because I was going to say it feels quite rough, but in a good way. And I think authentic is the right word for it. And I think it was a game changer for the genre. I think it launched, you know, Cillian Murphy's career. He's gone on to do some amazing things. The only known actor, I think in this, apart from Eccleston was quite known. The only one he wasn't super famous was Brendan Gleeson. Frank?

[00:14:06] The dad? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. He, he's quite, he's quite big. He was in like the Banshees of Incheron. He played Mad-Eye Moody in the Harry Potter films. He's Donald Gleeson's dad. Oh! And Donald Gleeson is like a major crush for me. And it made me laugh at Brendan Gleeson. Brendan Gleeson's like almost his age here. I'm like what the... Maybe, I wonder if that's why he showed up in Ex Machina. He was the lead character. That's Alex Garland's movie. You know, he wrote this family thing. Oh yeah! That would make sense. Yeah.

[00:14:36] Um, so yeah, I remember, I, yeah, I think there is a bit of pride there because it does feel very, there's something quite inherently British about it. I think there is a, a cynicism and a darkness to it that, that comes across as quite crunchy and quite of that time. But a heart too. Like for context. Yeah, absolutely. And at one point we were watching it and Peter said something jokingly about like, yep, new labor. And it was a very like weird. I mean, maybe this could be one of my first points is like this, this turn of the century

[00:15:06] time, particularly in Britain. Cause I, I dug into IMDB as I always do. And that scene where they were drinking the creme de month in the, um, high rise that was shot on September 11th, like actual September 11th. And Danny Boyle said something like, it felt really weird to be shooting this scene on a day when that was happening. And yeah. And I think there are things about the film that Danny Boyle has spoken about that he would have done differently.

[00:15:32] So like, for example, when, um, Jim is looking at the wall of survivors in London, that was actually before 9 11. But everyone's like, Oh, you took that from the 9 11. And he's like, no, I didn't. And if I, if I'd known, I wouldn't have put it in the film. Like he's like, you know, there's things that like I would have done differently. Um, and I think in the UK at that point, there was a real kind of sense of rage towards the government about things like leading into the Iraq war and like the shine was coming off

[00:16:02] of new labor. Cause we'd come out of like a long, long period of conservative rule with this very shiny, very optimistic labor party in 1997. When I was like very young. Cause I'm like super young. Um, I was 10. Um, and yeah, I think this was a point where Britain was starting to get, I don't know, there was things were on the turn a little bit. New labor hadn't delivered on everything it had promised. There was this whole period of tension leading up to September 11th in the Iraq war.

[00:16:29] And I think this film sits quite neatly in that sense of sort of disillusionment with it. And what does it mean to live in the society where everything is, is so scary? And I think the thing that struck me with the screens, cause it opens on the screens, I'd completely forgotten the beginning. I thought it opened with him waking up in the hospital with the screens. I think it really made me think about how 9 11 was probably one of the first major global events that we were able to almost watch live because of rolling news.

[00:16:59] Whereas now everything is like poured into our eyeballs. Like we can't escape it. And I think there's a real comment there, obviously about the feelings that instills in us as humans viewing it and what that does to the monkeys who are viewing it and the rage and anger. But that wall of screens was still something so futuristic about that, something kind of dystopian and like, this is, this is the reality we live in now.

[00:17:23] And I find that quite interesting to look back at 23 years later and be like, God, imagine if Twitter had existed. Like, you know, these, these kinds of things, it felt like a real inflection point. And I think this film sits really well in that. And I like that it's very England in particular situated, like London looks amazing in this film. I love what they did with making London look abandoned and desolate.

[00:17:49] And I loved heading up north towards Manchester on the M6. Like there's something very kind of so much zombie fodder is played like a Western, like we see Rick wake up in this kind of beautiful Georgia town. They're immediately out in the countryside and you know, in The Walking Dead, they don't really leave the countryside for like the next 11 seasons. So it was quite interesting to see this super urban, super recognizable London with like, you know, the London, I hadn't even been there that long. It had only been there about a year.

[00:18:18] And to just see him walking through the streets is so powerful. Although The Walking Dead, remember, did have the iconic shot of Rick walking into Atlanta, abandoned Atlanta, abandoned ruined Atlanta, which, you know, abandoned ruined London. I mean, so cool of him walking around dazed. Yeah. Calling out. Hello. Hello. Yeah.

[00:18:46] There's something about that. That's so appealing. Isn't the right word, but it's just very engaging to watch. It's, you know, I mean, you could ask the question, why do we watch any horror movies? You're watching people being killed and suffer and stuff like that. This is sort of a version of that where you just watch. It's like almost like a fantasy, a dark fantasy. Like what if I woke up and I was the only one left on earth?

[00:19:12] You know, and there's something that's kind of fun, I guess, to think about what, think about like, what would that be like? Oh my God. You know, do you remember when COVID hit? I was thinking this. Yeah. I was thinking it too. I remember walking around often cause I would like just go on a run and I would have the city to myself and it was weird. The traffic was so awesome back then. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't worth it. Yeah.

[00:19:41] I'm not saying that, but yeah, it was like a different, yeah, different. And Lucy, you were in Canada when COVID hit, right? Mm-hmm. I was. Did you walk around? This was, remind me, Ottawa? Saskatoon. Yeah. It was a funny, funny place because Saskatoon, shout out to Jenny, if you're listening. For me, it was quite a different place cause it's all wide streets and it's like quite a car based city.

[00:20:08] So it already felt a little quieter than like when I go down to London for work and I get off the train at King's cross, it's like this assault on the senses of just like noise and bustle. And I love it, but I can only do it for about two days. And then I'm like, no, I need to, I need to go back to my tiny medieval city for the M6. I think I read they had to film that early in the morning and you know, they had to block off streets and stuff, but even then just it's London. So it's super crowded.

[00:20:35] I wonder if they'd even be able to do it now because most filming is like Glasgow pretending to be Philadelphia or Vancouver pretending to be anywhere. And I don't think I had been to London the last time I saw this, you know, yet. And now I've been several times. So I was kind of cool to see it after having been there, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it's, it's a real, it's a showcase for British filmmaking and the one Scottish character

[00:21:02] soldier was nice and he got shot or stabbed or something. So, you know, go Scotland. We had the one not terrible soldier. I was like, come on. I was like, all right, no, he's going to die. He's the moral compass. He'll die soon. I'm also a showcase for Scottish whiskey. Thank you, Brendan Gleeson for making us pick up the Lagavulin. Yeah. When he was picking that up, I was like, yeah, get as much as you can. When he was describing it, I was like trying to get a look at the bottle.

[00:21:30] I couldn't see it was Lagavulin. Yep. The PD one. Oh, yes. He talks about it lovingly and the way he describes it. And he's like, you know, just it keeps pulling one bottle after the next. I'm like, yeah, why not? That's the whole thing with that scene. It's, it's just to take on the classic mall moment of a lot of good zombie movies where you're like, I can take whatever I want.

[00:21:59] I can do whatever I want. Yeah. I love that in America, it's like the mall. And in the UK, we're like the corner shop. The market. That's right. Like it's our dreams are smaller. It has made me want to rewatch Shaun of the Dead as well, because that's only. Another great British zombie movie. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Another thing about it being set in, in England is the fact that it was in an island. It's an island.

[00:22:28] And it was always the question throughout the film was, is this happening all over? Yes. Well, she said it, she heard about infections in New York and also Paris. And I thought, how, how did that happen? Because if it's because of this one monkey bit this woman, and then, you know, from there you turn into a rage monster, run around and bite other people.

[00:22:55] But you would think that because it happened so fast that no one would ever be like, why is that angry guy on the boat? Oh, well just ignore him. You know, it's like, how did anybody ever get to New York or even Europe or the rest of Europe? It doesn't really make sense, honestly. But it's confirmed, is it not that that's true, that it is just Britain, right? And 28 years later is the point not that they're trying to get to France. Oh gosh. I don't know, but I think. I don't remember.

[00:23:21] I do know that in this movie, she says there were reports of infections in New York and Paris. Interesting. And it made me wonder why. And I think that the aircraft at the end is finished, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I would love for someone to just fly over and take me to Finland. I'd be like very game for that. That'd be great. Karen, you want to do a point? Sure. I would like to talk about the cinematography. Oh, yes.

[00:23:49] For one thing, these filmmakers, Danny Boyle and Alex Garland, have always make stylish looking movies. Everything they've done, nothing is boring about their filmmaking. I think, you know, you just mentioned, shoot. Ex Machina? Of course. Ex Machina. That's one of my favorite movies of all time.

[00:24:16] Stylish, beautiful, gorgeous, you know, devs. They just can't make a boring looking movie. And this, I thought, was gorgeous looking. I mean, some of it was hard to watch, but they did some really cool things with slowing down frames when rain was coming down and made the rain look incredibly dramatic. Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .

[00:24:41] And also, we talked about what London looks like when it's abandoned in the M6, when you're trying to go on a road that's maybe a tunnel. You're trying to go through a tunnel and it's filled with all kinds... I mean, just the way it looked, the way the zombies looked, I thought it was beautifully filmed. I really, really enjoyed how gorgeous it was. Mm-hmm . Yeah. I agree. Choppy style.

[00:25:09] It had a videotape quality, which I wonder if that was sort of to match up with these violent newsreel photos that were playing for the monkeys, you know? But it definitely, like Lucy, you said it reminded you of the early aughts. Were you talking about that too? Just the... Yeah. The way it showed up on our screen. I remember having a conversation with this, with you guys when we were in Scotland about like the settings on TV and how to make it look less...

[00:25:37] I don't know how to even use the words to describe it now. Like things always look really smooth and weird now, whereas this just felt like... Emotionless. Like bits of it were probably filmed just in a handheld camera. Yes. But it had a videotape feel to me, like a newsreel thing. And I wonder if that was on purpose. Yeah. I loved it. It really is very... Like that's a part of what this movie is, is the look of the film stock or whatever they used, you know? Right. And the style definitely, the cinema, whatever style. You know what I'm trying to say.

[00:26:07] Yep, I do. Cinema graphic. I'm Charissa and my Empfehlung to all entrepreneurs start with Shopify erfolgreich through. I use Shopify already since the first day. And the platform makes me no problem. I have many problems, but the platform is never one of them. I have the feeling that Shopify their platform continuously optimizes. Everything is super, just integrated and linkable. And the time and the money I spend, that I do so much with it, can I invest in other words. Especially in Wachstum.

[00:26:35] Now, check it out on Shopify.de. Okay. I want to talk about the impact of this movie. The first, I think the first zombie movie I ever saw in my life was the 1990 Tom Savini remake of Night of the Living Dead, which I loved and it just made me love zombie movies. I think it was kind of a niche movie at the time that zombie movies had faded from the mainstream by then in the 90s.

[00:27:02] You know, Romero was the late sixties and Dawn of the Dead came out in the seventies. That was huge. But by the nineties, it was all niche campy stuff. And I remember hanging out with friends in a cafe or something saying, if we ever get into movie making, we should bring zombies back into the mainstream because there hasn't been a big one in a while. But we just like went bowling instead and played. And one of those friends was Danny. That's right. My good friend, Danny from England. England. Don't want my fucking idea.

[00:27:33] When 28 Days Later came out in 2003 in the States, it was 2000, late 2002 in the UK, 2003 in the States. And it hit really big. I was like, this is exactly what I was thinking. Like this modern retelling of, of the zombie movie. Um, yes, it's different. Of course, people will say it's not a zombie movie. It's different than the Romero zombies. Cause those are undead and these are infected.

[00:27:58] Um, but infected is just sort of the modern take on it. You know? I mean, I think Danny Boyle was like, I'm going to make a modern zombie movie. And, um, by the way, the first zombies were not undead either. They were drug slaves of voodoo practitioners. But anyway, this has enough of the tropes that make it distinct from other horror movies that I think they're of a piece. Like every list of the best zombie movies has 28 days later on it. I mean, literally everyone, uh, pretty much, you know, pretty close to literal.

[00:28:28] Um, but anyway, whether you want to think of it that way or not, it really, um, changed things. It was a huge hit. It made $84 million on an $8 million budget. So low budget, uh, it's critically acclaimed loved by audiences. And I think it brought the category back into the mainstream. There was Zack Snyder's 2004 Dawn of the dead remake.

[00:28:54] After that, Sean of the dead also in 2004, uh, the walking dead comic came out in 2003. And then the TV show in 2010, world war Z was probably the biggest budget zombie movie. Maybe I don't know in 2013 train to Busan and the Korean one in 2016 girl with all the gifts 2016, which is like last of us fungal infection movie. And, um, there was a big moment in podcasting the walking dead cast in 2010. That was huge.

[00:29:25] And, and, uh, and it's just widely credited with revitalizing the genre in, in a, in a way. And the podcasters. Yeah, no, they had fast zombies that became more common. Um, the whole bleak realism, the infection metaphors. It changed the genre. There were a bunch of global infection movies too. After that, that maybe didn't have zombies like children of men with Clive Owen. That's so good crazy. That was on the list as well, but it was another.

[00:29:55] Yeah, it's a good one. The crazies with Tim Oliphant is a remake in 2010, small town infection based chaos. I like that movie contagion with Dustin Hoffman is a global pandemic. Of course, the last of us, the game in 2013 and the show in 2023 last of us actually was in part inspired by a 28 days later. There's this really good podcast on YouTube where Alex Garland has a conversation with last of us creator, Neil Druckmann.

[00:30:25] And Druckmann says there's a direct line between the fast infected in 28 days later and the infected in the last of us. And Garland had just said to him to Druckmann cause he, he, I think is doing press because you know, 28 years later is coming out. And Garland said, I was so inspired by your work. The last of us is better than 28 days later. The thing about the last of us, I was like, this is so much more sophisticated. It was very nice for me with the last of us to sort of feel like someone saying, where's your game?

[00:30:53] And so then he said, the upcoming 20, 28 years later has a last of us connection. And last of us had such an impact on me. So they're really playing off of each other, which I think is kind of cool and admiring each other and not saying you stole my idea. I like him. One of the things I was thinking about in relation to the song, because I thought about World War Z, which was a film I also enjoyed. But I think one of the things that I liked about this one is how claustrophobic it was in terms of like, Britain is quite small. It's an island.

[00:31:22] It has become very isolated in this film. And I liked that at the heart of it was just a very small cast, very small scope, very base human horror. Whereas with World War Z, you know, you fly across the globe, like you do all this bonkers stuff and it's great. Like, I do really enjoy the film. Sure. Yeah. But I thought stripping it back to these brass tacks of like, these are our very small cast of characters. This is what's going to happen to them.

[00:31:48] And at the end of the day, the true horror is the people around you rather than the monsters. You know, that's that's powerful. And I think when The Walking Dead's at its best, it does remind us of that and it does dwell in those spaces. But sometimes, as with any zombie genre stuff, we get too hot caught up on the macro rather than the micro. So it was nice to see this kind of much more pared back experience. I mean, there's all kinds of scales with these things.

[00:32:17] Sometimes it could just be in one apartment building and then World War Z is the other extreme where it's global. And I think that's all cool. Like, just do it well. And I like to have different types, you know. But yeah, I agree with this one. It's more of a smaller, just a small group of people on an island, like you said. Cool. And then that's the other trope, too. You know, there's so many of that. Yeah, there's so many tropes in this movie. This is where they come from.

[00:32:45] And the the trope of, you know, they meet Frank and Hannah and Frank and Hannah are kind to them. Selena and Mark do. And of course, Frank wants something from them. He wants help getting here's this radio message. Thanks. Yeah, there's a cure and he's a good guy. Yes, he's a super great guy. He's a great guy. And and they're kind.

[00:33:10] But then they made another group and the other group is the soldiers and they're, you know, freaky and bastards. But that trope is predates 28 days later. It was in Night of the Living Dead. There was 100 total assholes in that movie. How do we act? How do we act when things go weird? Yeah. And and I love that. I love that they were infected with this thing called rage, because it could be anything.

[00:33:37] I mean, I feel like today, not to bring politics into it, but, you know, I feel like today people when they become radicalized, it's almost like they become infected with rage. Yeah. I mean, that's an Alex Garland thing. Yeah. And watching this movie, I did. I don't think I ever realized that until now that that's very much a part of this movie.

[00:33:57] Like the whole what they're trying to do with these monkeys is they're watching violent media to study rage and try to figure out how to suppress it. And so they're showing war, riots, torture to try to understand how rage works biologically. And then they infect them with this virus meant to inhibit it, but it mutated or something and just did the opposite. Whoops. Dope. But it became contagious.

[00:34:24] But at first I thought this segment was showing scenes of the apocalypse. And I think that's kind of maybe the point, like maybe the filmmakers thought we would think that like, oh, this is the apocalypse. Psych. It's actually real world violence. And they're saying you thought this was fictional fantasy, but it's what people are actually doing. And it's like we're still primal like these monkeys. And and that's why I think the whole movie looks kind of like war footage that videotape quality.

[00:34:51] And so I think it's kind of a commentary on violence in the world and rage and societal breakdown. It's tough to watch, given what's happening in L.A. right now. And so maybe one of the themes is like the futility of trying to suppress our primal nature or something like that. But I thought just one more quick thing on this at the end when Jim is brutally killing this guy that was holding Hannah.

[00:35:19] I mean, not Hannah, Selena at gunpoint guarding her. He slams his head against the wall and then jabs his fingers into his eye sockets. Oh, God, I can't watch that scene. And then yes. And then she's ready to kill him because she thinks he's infected with the right virus. But it's just him channeling his primal rage. And I think that sort of mirrors us thinking that what's on these TV screens was because of the apocalypse. But it's just what's happening around the world. It's like we're capable of this without some fantasy rage virus.

[00:35:48] It's in us, you know, especially men, probably. I think that's kind of what a big part of what this movie is about. And Alex Garland plays with those types of themes in other movies. If you saw Civil War. Civil War. Yeah. Just thinking about that. Yeah. I mean, social media is like taking the place of those screens that the monkeys are watching. It's so much worse. Because the screens are on all freaking time. But the worst part is that it's happening.

[00:36:17] Like you were saying earlier, just the tribalism and the hate and just that we could get to a place where any of this violence happens is such a tragedy. I'm reading Jeffrey Toobin's biography just came out a couple months ago about a biography of Timothy McVeigh called Homegrown.

[00:36:43] Oh, and Timothy McVeigh is the guy who bombed Oklahoma City Federal Building, the building. And he and Jeffrey Toobin walks us through how Timothy McVeigh was radicalized in a pre-Internet era. Interesting. And it very interesting how he was consumed with the rage virus through, you know, stuff before the Internet.

[00:37:13] So through a lot of times shortwave radio, AM radio, books, magazines, things like that. But radio was a big one for him. That was like his point. Do you think a lot of times it's people who just stay at home, mostly have a limited contact with different types of people and just spend a lot of time listening to toxic stuff or something like that? Yes.

[00:37:43] And also Timothy McVeigh was, you know, listened to the radio in his car. He loved to drive. And so like he was driving and driving and tuning in all across America and listening to. But unless you're. Yes. Connecting with people during those drives, it's still kind of the same thing, you know? Yeah. He was also in the military. So met a lot of guys in the military, too. It didn't change him.

[00:38:07] Like, you know, he had a lot of contact with people in the military and it did not seem to change him of anything. It made him more concentrated in his mission. It's hard when you're on that path. Sometimes there's no taking you off. Yeah. There's no intervention that's gonna. I don't like to think that. I like to think that there's always hope and there's always a chance. But for some people, I think they're just too far too far gone. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's true though. Yeah, it is.

[00:38:37] In the movies, there's sometimes a cure, but in real life, it's way more complicated. They turn down on the table and make them watch Pee Wee's Playhouse all day long. Did you see the Pee Wee documentary? Yes, I loved it. Yes. So good. All right. Where are we? I think it's, I think I took my turn early. So Lucy, what do you got? Yeah, it's me.

[00:39:03] I want to talk about Selena because her character is so raw and I love it. And I think I was going to start with like, I just think Naomi Harris should have more recognition because it feels like she never had her big break. But then I looked at her Wikipedia page and she's been solidly working since this film. Like no kind of top star roles, but loads of stuff. Like she was Moneypenny in the new Bond films with Daniel Craig. She was in Moonlight. She was in Pirates of the Caribbean.

[00:39:32] She turned up in Venom. Like there's a lot that she's done. And I think her performance in this is just fantastic because she's not sexualized or likable. And I find that really, really powerful. And I like that there's, I mean, I liked her also, but she's not, she's not softened in order to be likable. Right. She's human. She's human. She's prickly. She's, she's hurting and she's angry. And I like that.

[00:39:59] And I like what she says to Jim right at the start. And this felt like quite a self-aware, I mean, obviously quite a self-aware line where she says, what you think we're going to find a cure and save the world or fall in love and fuck. Yeah. And they don't do the first one, but they kind of do the second one, which is quite fun. But yeah.

[00:40:13] And there was also, there, there were a few different endings talked about and one that they storyboarded, but didn't film was, um, after Frank got infected with the blood, blood drop in his eye, they went to a hospital and they strapped him down and took him to a hospital. And he did a full blood transfusion with Jim and Jim sacrificed himself to save Frank and it worked.

[00:40:40] And then the, and then Danny Boyle and Alex Garland were like, no, that's, that sounds really dumb. Let's not do that. Yeah. It did happen though. I'm kind of glad they didn't. Cause I think the, the death of, um, Brenda Gleeson's character is so upsetting. Yeah. It's so sad. It's very iconic to this movie too, right? The whole blood drop in the eye. I did remember that. Oh my God. Oh my God. It's just, and he's like, stay away from me. Yeah. He tells his daughter, he loves her, but yeah, that's a sign he knows.

[00:41:11] It just makes me, uh, think again. I thought about it at the time. I think about it all the time. Actually, if there is a zombie apocalypse where one drop of blood can infect you, aren't you wearing safety goggles all the time? Yeah. And don't look up at dead bodies. Jesus. No. No. Just going to get a closer look. But it's a good movie moment. And I'm also, I'm going to be like wearing masks. Yeah.

[00:41:37] I'm going to be like covering myself so that, you know, I don't get scratched and maybe even have like a little Kevlar vest on. I mean, I'm having walking dead cast flashbacks right now. Well, like Milton duct taping his arms in the walking dead. I'm like, that's quite smart. Yeah. Like they probably can't bite through the duct tape. That's cool. Like, yeah, why not do that? And they're like, you fucking pussy Milton. And I'm like, no, I mean, it's just quite sensible. No, come on. He works with them.

[00:42:07] So that reminded me of the infection in the eye reminded me of Father Gabriel, who also got, when he put one of those gut parkas on, gut covered things or whatever, covered himself in zombie guts. And then he got some in his eye and he ended up losing eyesight in that eye. Yeah. And he got real sick too. It's not safe out there, kids. Protect your eyes. Protect your eyes. Wear protective eyewear.

[00:42:33] The other thing I always remembered about Selina's character that is dark, but I really loved her for is the way that she looks out for Hannah in that third act. And that act of, it's so bleak, but in the, in the situation, that act of drugging her was such a kindness to her. And that always really stood out to me is like this women protecting women, like this idea of like, I can't stop what's about to happen, but I can make it so that you don't care or that, you know, you don't remember it.

[00:43:03] It's bearable. And that always stuck out to me as just a really, I don't know, a really raw and strong decision on her part. Best she could do, right? Best she could do, right? You're given a fucking shit deal. Like what can you do with it? And the way that she, you know, she looks out for her and she cares for Jim in a quite, you know, she doesn't, you know, he says to her, he calls her out on it. He's like, you, you didn't shoot within five seconds, did you? And then they kiss.

[00:43:29] And I did laugh when he gets dunted over the head and he's like, I was kissing her. Are you stoned? And it's like, yes. Yeah. The one thing I would say is I bet if this film was made today, Selena would get the final kill of the guy who was assaulting her. Like part of me was like, I'll let her do the final kill. Let her, let her take him out. But it's fine. It works. It's whatever. But yeah, part of me was like, I would have liked to have seen her kill him. But you know, it's good.

[00:43:56] It's a good moment for Jim and his little feral infected outfit, which is just being shirtless for most of the third act. But yeah, no, Naomi Harris in this is just fantastic. She, I don't think she gets enough credit for it because I think, you know, Cillian Murphy is brilliant. It's his breakout. But I think she gives a really strong performance. As good, I would say for sure. Yeah. I agree. And a very, very late nineties haircut, which I really appreciate. Oh, it was so great. It was so good. I was like, it really suits you. I like that.

[00:44:26] Um, but yeah, Selena, her character, Naomi's performance, I thought was fantastic. Can you, can you also tell me what did you think about the whole storyline of the, the whole broadcast was about luring women to like flies to a web? It was very terminus. Very terminus, right? That's one thing I wanted to, I meant to mention more up top. I kind of did, but I said that this movie owes a lot. No, the walking dead owes a lot to this movie.

[00:44:56] And so I'm going to point out things. And that was definitely one because terminus is those who arrive survive. And this one, what did he say? Um, the answer to infection is here or something like that, you know, and we have soldiers and very much a false promise. Same exact kind of thing. Yep. I wish I couldn't believe it, but I could kind of believe it.

[00:45:20] And I think the thing he says is so beyond I promise them women is because women mean a future. And this idea that it's such an inherently deeply misogynistic idea that these women are objects and that they mean that you might be able to, to procreate or experience pleasure or have someone look after you or use them for a second. And I was like, do you know what? Yeah, I can buy it. I can buy that this would happen. And it's horrifying.

[00:45:48] I think it's the most horrifying thing of the whole film, undoubtedly. Um, and I didn't, I did like that there were a couple of soldiers at least who seemed uncomfortable with that. I think if it had been all of them just equally being for blood and women's bodies, it would have been maybe a touch less interesting. But the fact that there were people who were struggling with it, thinking about it. Um, I thought that made it a more nuanced watch, although, you know, the main moral compass got shot.

[00:46:17] Even West himself, just being like, I, uh, seeming to consider himself the civilized one, you know? Oh, I apologize for that. Let me stop these guys from just being so brutal about this and everything. And so I, that was very nuanced too, because you get the idea that he thinks he's sort of being reasonable and he's totally not, you know? No one ever sees themselves as the monster. Yeah, yeah.

[00:46:44] And I thought it was really interesting because Christopher Eccleston is known for playing gritty Northern, which in the UK read working class characters. Mm-hmm. And in this he is consciously a posh person. He's consciously like playing it as like a, an upper class corporal general major, whatever. Um, and I thought that was a really interesting character choice for him because he's very much known for the opposite.

[00:47:09] And what does that say about, you know, who, who it is that's in the, that holds the power in these groups and how does the class system still play out even when the world has ended? Right. Yeah. I, I thought, so as I said, when I first watched this, I, I just didn't like that whole segment. I thought, eh, it feels like they couldn't figure out how to end it. And this is not good. Cause I'm not feeling good and I don't like it, you know? Mm-hmm .

[00:47:39] And now I'm sort of like reevaluating that. And I, you know, it definitely feels bad and it's disturbing. It's unpleasant. It's uncomfortable. Does that mean it's bad? I think probably not. I think it's about toxic men asserting control over women. And that's, as I said, that's a theme in his work. Like Garland, he asks his movies ask questions like what do men do to women?

[00:48:08] What systems they build to define and confine them? What happens when women transcend these systems? Ex Machina. Ex Machina. Like I said, one of my favorite movies, it leans into that. It's this tech bro who creates female AIs basically as sex slaves. So it's almost the same thing. I hadn't even thought about that before. Annihilation isn't directly about gender control, but it's a group of women going into this weird, surreal place that's shaped by male trauma.

[00:48:35] Um, devs, a powerful male tech CEO creates a deterministic system and removes free will. And then this woman challenges the whole thing from inside. So kind of sorta men, which I haven't seen, uh, came out in 2022, but I read it's about toxic masculinity. Oh, it's so good. Apparently it's very surreal. One guy literally gives birth to another guy over and over again. Not exactly. Not exactly. Okay.

[00:49:03] Um, civil war maybe isn't about gender dynamics, but it's about power and control and two women who rather than being victims of male violence become observers and documentaries of it. And, um, so I just think that, you know, it's interesting to see any creative person, novelists, especially fill of, uh, filmmakers and see how they tend to hit the same themes from different directions over and over again.

[00:49:32] And so that makes me appreciate this movie as a bit of a deeper movie than I probably thought it was before. And so, uh, yeah, I guess I like it better even though it's still just leaves me with a bad feeling. I mean, at least the, at least she got away, you know, they killed everyone and got away. So that's good. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Especially Hannah. Yeah.

[00:49:55] I mean, I feel like Selena is, um, she's tough and, um, uh, but I thought that poor Hannah has absolutely no experience and it would have been devastating for a small girl. It was great. She was probably, I guess, hopped up on volume and she's like, Oh no, this is all fine. I don't care. And then the soldiers all scared. Cause his other, everyone else was out fighting, including his captain or whatever the guy was. And he's looks scared and she's like, what if they don't come back?

[00:50:25] Are you going to be in charge? Don't even say that. Shut up. I don't think they're coming back. Shut up. I love that. They're dead. They're dead. And you're going to be dead next. And then right then one jumps through the. It was so good. She was being a little asshole. And they deserved it. Yeah. Yeah. How do you feel about it, Karen? Like coming at it, watching it again. It makes, it makes the whole thing is making me sad. It's making me.

[00:50:54] I've been thinking a lot about in the last six months, I've been thinking about women and women in this world and why do men hate women? Yeah. And like, is that true? Even do men really hate women? Do men hate women? I mean, in their deepest, darkest hearts. I mean, is that the thing? Well, come on. That's, I find that offensive that you would suggest that all men hate women. You're married to a man who doesn't hate women. I know. I know.

[00:51:24] I love men. I love men. I do. And, and I am not happy about questioning that. I mean, I'm being, I'm being super sincere and really sad right now. Okay. Well, I don't, sorry. I don't mean to undermine it. I wonder if, I wonder if in every man's darkest hearts, if they hate women. Yeah.

[00:51:52] I honestly, I ha, I hate having thought that. I hate thinking that. I hate, I hate that now in the last six months, that is what I'm thinking, but that is what I'm thinking. And I never thought that before. And now I think it all the time. And I hate that. I think that. I don't know if I think it's true. Mm hmm. I don't know.

[00:52:13] I, I, I could tell you that, that I feel like my husband, I feel like my podcast host, Jason, I feel like they are two examples of the best of men. Mm hmm. And yet I wonder if there's a little place in every guy's heart. I wonder if there's a little place in every woman's heart that hates men. I don't know. I, I, and then I also, I, yeah.

[00:52:41] And then I, the, I've been going down the whole rabbit hole of what is a, what is gender and that's a whole other thing. But anyway. Um, so yeah. So this made me sad, um, because I'm in a dark place when it comes to feeling what I'm feeling about being a woman. And I watched this with my hands over my eyes a little bit, you know, I'm sort of peeking through my fingers when I watch it.

[00:53:06] And it makes me incredibly sad that like society breaks down and it, it hasn't broken down that long. It's been a month. Yeah. It's been 28 days. I think it's been 28 days and they're going to end. And that's it. We're throwing in the towel unless we can have women be our sex slaves and, uh, use them to breed with. It did seem pretty quick to be like, okay, we're planning on how we're going to rebuild society.

[00:53:34] I'm like, maybe you should take a breath first. Right. Maybe see if maybe there are some other people in the world. Yeah. Also like for sure. I think, I think we were letting women into the army then. I'm a bit like, where did all the women soldiers go? Like, I'm just a bit like. And, and Jim did see a plane go overhead. I mean, there's evidence to be had that there are other people in the world. Yeah.

[00:54:03] If it was 28 years later and you know, there haven't been women around. Okay. You know, I saw children of men. I understand how bleak it is. If you think that the world is ending, I get it. And everybody wants company, but yeah. Yeah. So it made me very, very sad. If to build on what you're saying, Karen, I think.

[00:54:24] Like my experience in the last six months being a degree removed from some of the things that are being threatened to happen to women in North America. Yeah. It feels like the, the tissue between what rational normal society is and what a handmaid's tale as dystopia is, that tissue is getting thinner and thinner.

[00:54:49] And that does put your head in places of like, is the ultimate goal of totalitarian government to subject women is. And how do we get there? And how do we get there? Because not every person on every side is an idiot. Like you can't say that. That's not true. Right. Right. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're not a monolith. Every single person is individual. Every single person has their own thoughts, their own agency. We can't just lump everyone into one category altogether.

[00:55:18] But when people mass around policies and figureheads whose central ideas are about the control and obfuscation of women's rights and the taking of them away, it does put you into a dark place. And I'm like, I, this is what I studied for my frickin PhD was like attitudes towards women in the 17th, 18th, 19th centuries.

[00:55:43] And it, it interested me in this film when he talks about women meaning the future, because there's this, this branch of misogynist thought that is, it's, it's the kind of, I would never do that. I have a daughter. I would never do that. I love my mother. I'm like, it shouldn't be relative like that. It should just be because we're fucking human beings, not because you once met a woman you liked or like you happen to be born of somebody.

[00:56:10] So when he says women mean the future, that to me was very, very sinister because it's about what we can put them in roles that we want them to be in. And I think rationally, Karen and I both know that not all men hate women, but I think what is scary is that it is becoming a more real possibility that they might, or that there is this thing in all of us, this rage or this, this feeling that. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:56:38] That's what, I mean, I don't want to minimize or dismiss the problem with men committing violence or being controlling with women because that's a very particular thing and it's important to talk about.

[00:56:55] And I think that it also, like, it just reminds me throughout podcasting about the walking dead, how I've really tried to preach and it did get preachy at times about being vulnerable with people, about showing trust, about, you know, being smart about it.

[00:57:17] But, but, um, having connection because we do have to resist that part of us that want, that feels unsafe and, and fears other people. And that can manifest in, uh, violence or hate or, or, you know, things like that. And we all have the capacity for that. We can be afraid of people and then turn that into hate. That's what is happening in the country right now. A lot, a lot.

[00:57:46] But I, I think that there are a lot of people who on some level, whether consciously or not understand that and try to resist it and don't give into the fear. And those are the good people. That's the only way for us to stay, um, uh, you know, good to put it in a simple way, you know, to avoid this kind of violence and stuff like that.

[00:58:09] But, um, I guess my point is that we all have to work to do that because we have those, uh, impulses to fear and hate. We all do men and women. Yeah. And, um, and so I think the best you can hope for and expect from people is that they do think, be thoughtful about it and try to, uh, you know, the whole thing about which wolf do you listen to or try to listen to their better angels.

[00:58:36] And there are plenty of men out there who try to listen to their better angels and women too. That doesn't mean it's not a problem. It is. But I'm just saying like that when you say, I wonder if all men hate all women. And I'm just like, uh, I don't, I don't feel that way. I know. It's hard though. Cause I think for women, we've been taught that there's so much more to be scared of and there's so much more that can be taken away. Absolutely. And that's hard. And those, I find it really, like watching them knowing what was coming in the truck when he's like one male, two female.

[00:59:06] And I'm like, oh my God, the reactions back at that house when they hear two female. It did. Yeah. It's so rough. It's so fucking rough, man. Yeah. It's just shit lot. Now, uh, I will also say that this, um, this movie had this amazing, uh, had two amazing, uh, male characters of, uh, Killian Murphy, who's amazing.

[00:59:35] And Brendan Gleeson, who was just adorable. Just the cutest, just the most wonderful. I want him to be my dad. But then I couldn't marry my brother, Donald Gleeson. Oh, Donald Gleeson. He could be your, he could be your father-in-law. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. We'll do that. Yeah. Yeah. Step brothers and sisters are fine if things I see on the internet.

[00:59:58] It was super cute when, when Jim was sleeping and, and, um, he sort of calls in a sort of a haze. He calls him dad. Um, when he was woken up. I love that. I love that. Uh, I love the moment when, uh, he sees the, uh, horses running free. And he, uh, Brendan Gleeson spends a moment looking at them and he tells his daughter they'll be fine. And he spends a moment looking at them and blows them a kiss.

[01:00:28] Oh, I love that. He even leaves his credit card in the grocery store to pay for all the groceries that they took. It was so cute. That really made me laugh. I was like, yes. When they first got to them, you know, you get, you see the light flashing in the apartment complex and then they get upstairs and he takes off his mask and seems, you know, less imposing. But my first thought is despite everything I just said, don't trust these crazy assholes. Cause I'd forgotten what happened. Right.

[01:00:57] And I've been trained by 15 years of the walking dead where you can't trust any new people. But I think I wondered if we had that reaction when we first saw this, because maybe we weren't used to just not trusting anyone yet. Or I bet you when we first saw it, we were still like, yeah, you better be careful with anybody you don't know. Right. He could have been a crazy, but he turned out to be a great guy. And just while I'm talking about it, I'm going through some of my impressions of the whole sequence. I wondered why the hell Jim was shaving.

[01:01:25] Like I don't even shave and we still have civilization. So it's a little weird. I thought it was a nice touch that the fish was almost all out of water. It just gave that feeling like you can't stay here forever. We're running out of time. And that was right after he pointed out that they're running out of water. And he showed the whole rainwater catchment system. He probably drank some fish water. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't all evaporation. The fish water was super low. He's like, oh, the fish water evaporated. And the fish is like, no, it didn't. No, it didn't, you liar.

[01:01:57] They have to go back to pooping in a bucket and tossing over to the balcony, which made me think, Gardie Lou, of course. Yay. That's what we used to do in Scotland, y'all. So when, you know, they're talking about Mark and Hannah, Selina and Jim. And what do you think of them? And I think they're desperate. And oh, he thinks they seem like good people, though. Good people, she says. Well, that's nice. But you should be more concerned about whether they're going to slow you down. And she says she would leave them behind in a heartbeat.

[01:02:26] Mark says, I wouldn't. Then you're going to end up getting yourself killed, she says. And that reminded me of Shane and Rick. Like, at least at this moment, Selina is very much a Shane killing. I mean, Jim is a Rick. And so that's another Walking Dead theme that I noticed in this. 100%. And it's all in Walking Dead 2. It's always all about who do you trust and how much risk do you take in trusting people?

[01:02:53] And where do you land on the spectrum from compassionate to ruthless and things like that? So, I mean, Robert Kirkman. So, Robert Kirkman, The Walking Dead came out, the comic, in 2003, October. And this movie was in the States in, I think, June or something. So, it came out. It was out here. Robert Kirkman says he never saw it.

[01:03:23] Or he hadn't seen it by the time he wrote that first issue of The Walking Dead. And it was a total coincidence that Rick was in a hospital. That's what he says. Maybe that's true. There could be people who come up with the same. Yeah. But it really feels, the whole thing feels influenced. Now that I'm watching it, I'm like, man, there's so many other little things, too. So many. I just thought there were aspects of Selina that reminded me of Michonne.

[01:03:50] Like, just in terms of the way she carried herself and the machete instead of a katana. Like, there was just something there. I was like, not in a bad way. I was like, thank God we have these two amazing female characters. But yeah, there were bits of it where I was like, ooh, she's crunchy and I like it. I thought it was interesting. So, the whole thing about waking up in a coma or from a coma, you don't wake up in a coma. That means you're not in a coma anymore.

[01:04:16] So, you know, they named the movie after that skipped time 28 days later. It's like 28 days later, there was nothing left. And later I would go on to get mad at Fear the Walking Dead for skipping over nine days. But I think that's just because The Walking Dead had also skipped it. So, I thought, hey, if you're going to do one that shows what happened in the beginning, then actually show it.

[01:04:41] You know, but as far as this movie goes, I didn't get mad that it didn't show it because that just wasn't what it was about. It was about the aftermath. Yeah. And it's easy to believe that society collapsed quickly.

[01:04:59] I mean, that rage took over and took them so fast because the infected are so fast and they are so filled with rage. It's so easy to get infected. And you turn really, really, really quickly. Yeah. 10 to 20 seconds, she says. That's how much time you have. Not much. And I think I liked that they gave hints that, like, London had been evacuated, sort of World War II style. Like, that was why it was so quiet.

[01:05:27] Because I couldn't get, I was like, why is it, why is it so quiet around here if it's only been 28 days? But yeah, this idea that everyone, which is kind of what happened in COVID. Like, a lot of people left London to go out of, yeah, out of the city. I was thinking about this film on Friday. I had to go and get blood drawn. And I don't think the person taking the blood was very good because they took, like, three goals. And one of the goals was cannula in the hand. It's so painful.

[01:05:53] And one of the things that always gets me in, like, The Walking Dead and this is the idea that you, like, rip all the IVs. I'm just like, oh! I liked the attention to detail that Killian Murphy had, like, a bleeding wound on his arm where he'd rip the cannula out. But it fucking hurts, man. Like, it's so sore. I'm like, I'd probably just wimp out and stay in the hospital. I'd be like, no, it's fine. I don't want to take it out. I'll just leave it. It's okay.

[01:06:19] When Jim was in the kitchen at night and that infected burst through, that was fucking freaky. I nearly, like, crapped myself. It was so scary. And then Selena and Mark quickly kill them. And he's like, that's Mr. Bridges. And she's like, were you bitten? And his daughter from Four Doors Down. Were you bitten? No. Did any of the blood get in your mouth? No. Which reminded me of Morgan saying, did you get bit scratched or anything like that?

[01:06:47] At the beginning of The Walking Dead. Yes. Did you get bit? And then Mark has that open wound, her friend, or whoever the guy she was with. Yeah. And she just kills him immediately. Yep. And then, and he said, wait. Like, no, wait. And I'm like, God, I hate when people do that. Well, I don't hate it. I guess I understand it. It's human. But you're like, wait for what? For you to turn and kill us? Well, no, we're not going to do that.

[01:07:16] I don't think so, Mark. She said, yeah. She said, you know, then on the way out, Jim was like, how do you know he was infected? And she's like, I can tell by the look on his face. And because at first she said all the blood and he goes, there's blood everywhere. You don't know. Oh, I can tell by the look on his face. And then I thought, maybe the look on his face was, she's going to think I'm infected. But you can't risk it at that point, right? You can't.

[01:07:46] No. I guess she could have waited until he started to get all twitchy. I kind of loved how visceral all the kills were as well. Like, they really didn't shy away from it. It wasn't like, I mean, again, hi, welcome to the UK. We don't really have a lot of guns. So like, yeah, until you get to that military point, it is visceral machete to the face. Kind of. Yeah. It's rough. And the, I'm just going through like the terrifying things. I think fast zombies just are terrifying in and of themselves.

[01:08:16] Slow ones are nice and creepy. Fast are just scary. But when they were in the tunnel, that reminded me of Daryl going through the channel. Oh, the tunnel. But yeah, the tire change was great because you're like, they're still trying to change the tire. Shouldn't they run? And I totally thought someone was going to get eaten at that point. I'm shocked. Yeah. That no one did, but it was so terrifying. Then why did Jim go into the like gas station burger place or whatever? Like, why did you go in there? You're not going to get a burger. I don't understand why he went in there.

[01:08:47] I guess he's just seen way less of the world at that point. And I don't know, morbid curiosity. Yeah. That's what it felt like. But then when he had to kill the infected boy, that felt like, that reminded me of The Walking Dead too, how there's this progressive loss of innocence, you know, that was his first kill. And it's even worse because it's a kid. But, you know, you think about Rick Grimes, who is this sort of clean cut standup kind

[01:09:13] of a guy who ended up this like feral, vicious killer by the end of it, just like Jim did by the end of this movie. Remember his first kill? Bicycle girl. Oh, did he kill the bicycle girl? Yeah. I think it was in Bicycle Girl the first. I'm sorry this happened to you. I don't remember if he killed her though. Yeah. He goes back and shoots her. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. He doesn't the first time he sees her, but that's at the point where like, you know, in the next episode, he like takes the guy's driving license out and he's like, I'll remember

[01:09:43] this guy's name for the rest of my life. Yeah. You're like, remember that guy, Rick? And he's like, who? What? The driver's license. Oh, yeah. It makes me laugh because every time we talk about that, none of us can remember the guy's name either. And I'm like, clearly didn't stick in our brains. It's Rufus. It's Rufus. Rufus, the dead guy. Rufus Farkenberger. Rufus Farkenberger. I would remember it if that was his name.

[01:10:15] Okay. Do you guys have any more points or? Yes. I want a really snarky point. Good. At the end, at the end there, they run out and this is the very end. They run out. The plane's flying overhead and they run out with their last little bit of the sign. And it turns out their sign spells, hello. Why not SOS? Why not SOS? Why not H-E-L-P? I mean... They wanted a bigger sign.

[01:10:46] I always think about, is it an episode of Friends where they try and write help? And then I think it's Joey writes play instead because he's like, they'll see it backwards. Every time I see that, I'm like, play. They're like, please save us. We're starving and we need help. We're writing really small. Hello. I'm like, hello doesn't... Yeah. Yeah. The guy's like, oh, hey there. See you later. Hello.

[01:11:17] He comes back with some sky writing saying, how are you? That was my only other point. That is so funny. It's small. I love it. I love it. Do you have any other ones, Lucy? Just little notes, really. Okay. Let me just go through. I had a couple more. The whole thing about what makes life worth living and how, you know, we have Selena's

[01:11:44] friend, Mark, telling the story of how he lost his grip on his sister's hand. And it's just another Walking Dead thing. You get so many times where you hear people tell stories of how they lost people from the zombies. Then later, Selena says, have you got any plans, Jim? You want us to find a cure and save the world or just fall in love and fuck? Plans are pointless. Staying alive is as good as it gets. And then she changes her tune and says she was wrong. It's like the next day, by the way. Yeah.

[01:12:13] But it's a movie. So I think it would have taken a few episodes. They didn't have that much time. Yeah. But, you know, that's another Walking Dead theme, especially later in the series. They're starting to look at more like what is life beyond survival? There's schooling and romance is happening and art and music and reading and things like that. So I thought that was another theme from The Walking Dead.

[01:12:37] And then, you know, at the end when Selena starts crying because Hannah's lost her dad and she's like, it's all fucked. And Jim kisses her and she kisses back. And from that point, they're a full on bromance. And that reminded me of Glenn and Maggie, I guess, you know. There's other couples too, though, in The Walking Dead.

[01:13:00] But it's good that I guess these are just maybe it's like because that movie had such an impact on Robert Kirkman and The Walking Dead writers. And also, maybe it's just the kinds of things you'd think about. But I don't remember these kinds of things necessarily being in zombie stuff before before 28 Days Later. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. In terms of like the love stories and things.

[01:13:27] Yeah, just all these themes of, yeah, what is like beyond survival? What should we be thinking about? Yeah. And what makes life worth living and stuff like that. That was one of the things that made The Walking Dead exceptional was that it, like Kirkman said, he wanted to see what happened after the camera stopped rolling. Like when you have to live in that world continually. But I'm saying it's already all in this movie, you know. It's still, it's just a single movie. But yeah. Yeah. That's true, actually.

[01:13:56] And then last, just the ending. So they had considered a few different endings. They actually filmed a bleaker ending. It was Jim. I read that. After he was wounded by Wes, the military guy, Selena and Hannah take him to this hospital. You see just a beat of it here, but because it's on YouTube, you can watch it. I put a link in the show notes. Yeah. It was on the link.

[01:14:21] It was actually released in some theaters in the US because during test screening, some people thought this bleaker ending fit the movie better. So they put it as a what if at the end. What if this happened? But anyway, they are trying to revive him. It seems like Selena was a medical professional because she knows how to pump air into his lungs and give him an adrenaline shot and stuff. But it doesn't work. And he dies and Selena and Hannah are crying and then they just move on.

[01:14:49] And I'm like, yeah, I'm glad they didn't use that ending. Yeah, me too. Yeah. Too bleak. Also about the ending. Like, I do think it's a little weird that they're like, oh, this plane saw us. So that's gives us hope when the whole movie was about how they had hope and then it got crushed because the people were assholes. And it's like, I don't know if you should. And who's most likely to be flying a plane? Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah, yeah.

[01:15:18] But, uh, and then one last thing. One last theme is just having Jim, Selena and Hannah, these people who probably would have never met by the end. They're this closely bonded group. Pretty much all each other has. That's found family. That's very, very core to The Walking Dead too. And core to human survival now as well, I think. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Gotta have your peeps. The Zen Head group. Yeah. Okay. What about notes? Lucy?

[01:15:46] Um, I just, I did love all the British confectionery that was on display. Like just the candy bars and the candy bars. I don't know if it's from America. Chocolate bars, uh, the different kinds of sodas that we have, the iron brew. It made me quite, it made me nostalgic for like going to the corner shop with a pound in your pocket and getting like a tin of juice and a little Freddo. So yeah, that just, it made me happy. Um, Jim finding his parents I'd completely forgotten about. That was really heartbreaking. Very sad. Yeah.

[01:16:16] And that scene where he's thinking about them and then the infected runs in is just fucking terrifying. Um, I cannot think of anything I would like to drink less in the zombie apocalypse than creme de menthe. I know. I think that was sort of part of the point. They're like, okay. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I love that they address the fact that Jim's eating nothing but sugar and he's having a major sugar come down. I was like, yeah, it happens. Then he's offered creme de menthe.

[01:16:44] The music in this is good. Um, that very iconic kind of thing, a song by granddaddy AM 180. I remember that from, from this, the first time I watched it. Very Danny Boyle taste because his soundtracks all have similar vibe. Yeah. It's good. I really enjoyed it. I, yeah, I liked it a lot. Um, Jim's dream about worrying that he'd been abandoned was just really sad. I kind of, that's terrifying and sad. Being alone.

[01:17:15] Yeah. I'd forgotten that infected can be shot in this universe. I forget how saturated I am in the walking dead that like when I watch a zombie film and someone dies and they don't shoot them in the head, I'm like, oh my God, they're going to turn. And I'm like, oh no, they're not. They're not going to turn. That's where I'm in the walking dead. Um, this is where people who just are very insistent that this isn't a zombie movie are saying that's because they're not zombies. Yeah. So you can, you can shoot them. You can shoot them dead.

[01:17:41] And I think the hint we get at the end of this film before it becomes a kind of a universe is that they can starve. Like the two that you see at the end looking up at the plane. Yeah. They're saying like, oh, is that what they're starving? Right. Cause somebody, oh, actually one thing, smart thing I thought Wes did was tie up that one infected and say he wants to find out how long it takes for them to starve. And I'm like, you know, okay, how long would it take?

[01:18:05] And then I'm like, well, in 28 weeks later, which I think is about 28 weeks after I'm guessing, uh, is where there's a whole bunch still. Right. So I don't know if the, those turned since then, or if they just, when you become infected for somehow you have more longevity without food or something. I don't know. It's, um, it was interesting. The, the guy on the chain was quite bleak. Um, I think I, I, I agree. No, what you mean though? It is a sensible thing to check, but I was quite uncomfortable with that, but I liked that

[01:18:35] he then kind of got his revenge cause he got released and got to sort of kill all his tormentors. I don't know if that makes me a very sick person, but here we are. I mean, I think something like that, I suspect is if it's a person that we're annoyed with doing it, we're more likely to think that's fucked up. But if it's not, then we're like, yeah, that's probably smart. There is, um, the Scottish soldier was completely right with what, well, I think we find out in

[01:19:02] the next film that he was completely right about they've quarantined us, they've abandoned us, they've just left us to die. Um, but then Jim sees the plane and gets hope from that. Oh, hi, posy. Karen's cat has just popped up to join in. Um, yeah, Jim sees the plane and it gives him hope and something to kind of work towards. Um, I loved when Selena said to the men that it was just polite to let the girls dress themselves

[01:19:28] cause that scene is disgusting, but I love that she kind of appealed to the vague sense of decency that one of them had there. Um, and I really enjoyed Jim picking off the soldiers. Usually I have an issue with scenes where like, I always call them kind of homesteads home alone scenes where someone like outsmarts everyone just using their smarts when actually they're just an average Joe. But I actually bought it. I liked it. I liked his kind of feral Rambo rampage that he went on. Um, and I did really enjoy that.

[01:19:56] I did wonder, should he have killed every single soldier? But, you know, I, I don't think that's a moral question for this. I don't think that's a nuanced question here. I think he did kill all the soldiers, um, because he was in his rage state. I mean, it was interesting when, um, West told him, you know, they were having that talk about how he killed the boy and West tried to, I guess, comfort him by saying, well, it was, you had to kill him to survive.

[01:20:25] And then Jim had to kill all of them to survive pretty much, you know, him and his friends. Yeah. I loved that Hannah went to find a photo of her family and that scene where she hid behind the mirror was very tense. Um, I would have fallen over or I did wonder if she was going to flip the mirror and smack the guy in the head, but yeah, it was. I thought he might attack himself in the mirror. Yeah. I thought so too. Yeah. Like how smart are they? But no, he's like, oh, good looking, good looking guy. That's what I'm looking at.

[01:20:54] Oh, red eyes. I have, um, my three final points are Peter wants it to be known that he used to have a pillowcase like the one that Jim has in the cottage at the end. He might've had the same bedding. I promised I would tell everyone that I was like, that's essential. Knowledge. I'm editing that out. I'm sorry. Yeah, I know. Like I said, I'd say it. I said it. Whatever. It's the most vital point that you can face. We thought they'd gone to Scotland, but it's actually the Lake District. They're in Western Cumbria, I think at the end of the film.

[01:21:25] And like peak early noughties filmmaking, that freeze shot at the end where they're like halfway through busting through the gate and they're just like, and then it kind of freezes on them. Why did that ever go out of fashion? It's great. All films should end like that. Every scene should end that way. Every scene should end with a kind of weird spray paint version of somebody midway through doing something like... This is where I wish that we put our podcast on YouTube. But oh well. Yeah. You can see me doing that right now.

[01:21:55] Let's do our best ending shot. One, two, three. All right. Awesome. It looks great. It looks great. I'll cut that from the video because it does record a video and I'll post it somewhere. Put it. Great. Ten out of ten. Danny Boyle, get in touch. Yeah. Those were my notes on that. Yeah. I thoroughly enjoyed re-watching it. So yeah. Yeah. And one note. I would say that.

[01:22:22] But yeah, it's hard to use the word enjoy when you're left with like, ugh. But yeah. What's your note, Karen? My one note is the church scene. Oh shit. Yes. Yes. Oh father. I'm sorry father. Yeah. Yeah. Really, really great that he apologizes. That is really funny. But also bleak because all the people had clearly gone there to get some, you know, at the end.

[01:22:52] Yeah. That's where all the people who didn't evacuate London. A lot of them probably went to that church. And I, did you see the graffiti? The end is. Repent. Repent. The end is very fucking eye. Extremely fucking eye. I wondered. Extremely fucking eye. How many people have that as a tattoo? Because I was like. I was wondering that too. Kind of awesome. Yeah. Yeah, it is. I mean that. There were moments of lightness and beauty and reflection.

[01:23:20] And even some that were almost sublime in this that were great counterpoints to the terror. Yeah. And that was a little one just because he's like, I shouldn't have done that. Just a little piece of comedy, you know. And then when he met Mark, Selena's friend, he tells him that joke. Man walks into a bar with a giraffe. They each get pissed, which means drunk in case you didn't know. The giraffe falls over. The man goes to leave and the barman says, oh, you can't leave that lion there. He says, no, it's not a lion. It's giraffe.

[01:23:51] Too soon. Then there was. I loved. Complete lack of humor. Yeah, that's right. I liked when Jim, he's just, you know, comes out, sees that everything's fucked. And then the infected attack and Selena and Mark save him. So he hasn't really had a chance to, as soon as things quiet down a little, he's like, what the fuck's going on here? And then Mark says, okay, Jim, I've got some bad news for you. I just thought I had a good sense of humor.

[01:24:18] The whole thing at the shop was so lovely and fun where they're just taking whatever they want. Then right after they're driving, and it looks like they're driving through a painting of flowers to me. And then they had this picnic with the horses and that was nice. And then even just while they're driving, Jim has his hand out, letting the wind pass through it. Just little moments like that make it feel kind of artful to me.

[01:24:48] I like that. I forgot. I forgot I had all that stuff to say. Sorry. We'll end on a lighter note.

[01:25:50] All right. We're back. It's time for listener moans, groans and grunts. Er, er, er, er. Brains. Brains. Colin says, ah, the one that started the fast zombie trend. And my favorite horror franchise. Nice. That's the one. There were some fast zombie movies. Dead Alive. Ah, so good. It was before this, but this is the one that really hit big.

[01:26:17] I loved that bit in the church where he calls up and you see the two kind of wake up. I was like, oh, that's nice. That's nice. I like that. It was lucky he met a slow priest first. Yeah. Let's assume drunk. Like maybe he just stayed drunk. I don't know. Karen? Robin Mark says, I promise them women. A bunch of throw up emojis. Love this movie, but enough. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:26:47] How I felt. Wendy Ann says, I started watching this alone in my living room after my husband and kids had gone to bed. 20 minutes in, I was scared out of my mind and had to shut it off and watch it with other people the next night. I love when a movie can really scare me. This was so well done. I really hadn't seen much like it at the time. I'm excited for the sequel. Me too. Penny Lennox says, this movie has a very special place in my heart.

[01:27:14] Seeing this together was the start of one of the most important friendships in my life. On top of that, it's just beautifully made. Some of my favorite moments are the empty London scenes, the shopping spree and the tunnel. Also, Christopher Eccleston makes for a fantastic villain. He does. He really does. Yeah. Yeah. It's very charismatic. Sadie Wright wrote, I recently watched this movie in anticipation for 28 years later and had forgotten how the silence is another character.

[01:27:43] The sound editing is brilliant. Amazing cast, unique storytelling, scary and disturbing as hell with moments of heart and humor. It's just such a solid film. Will you be covering 28 weeks later as well? Oh, yes. Well, we have. Oh, hang on. Oh, no. And I'm trying to, let me look it up really quick. We have. It was Walking Dead cast, which is in this feed, number 24.

[01:28:11] So if you scroll all the way back, it's 28 weeks later, plus our top five zombie movie characters. Whoa. I wonder what we said. I know. At the time. We're like, it was good. Uh, Robin Springer says, I saw this years ago when it first came out in video. I also watched it alone because nobody in the fam would watch it with me.

[01:28:36] Oh, second and scariest behind the strangers where people in masks stand outside a cabin and terrorize the couple inside. Then get inside. I didn't even know about that one. Uh, it's the unexpectedness and quickness of the spread and how unprepared I'd be. That scares me so much. I mean, yeah, I just, the, the only, um, sort of silver lining I think about how I would handle myself is it would be over very soon. Yes. Yeah.

[01:29:03] Dre Minoni says, okay, this is one of my first horror movies I ever watched willingly. I've always been so curious. Willingly like she was forced. I don't know. Right. Did you have a list as well, Dre? Write in if you did. Write in if you did. Amazing. I've always been so curious about the theme of apocalypse, but also deeply terrified. I remember going to the theater with my then BF to see this and in the first, first minutes regretting it so badly. Not because it was a bad movie, but because I knew it would haunt me for a long time. I was right.

[01:29:32] But somehow, almost two decades later, I find myself here. Just a girl facing another chance to watch a scary movie and hoping that I'll recover a little faster this time. Oh no, Dre, don't let us pressure you into any psychological harm. I hope you're okay. Wow. Wow. That's great. We're just a bunch of podcasters sitting in front of microphones asking you not to get too traumatized. Yeah, that's right. Okay.

[01:30:01] Mark Kohler says, I love 28 Days Later. It's the best ever take on the virus slash zombie slash end of the world genre. It has its flaws and it's low budget show. So it's a low budget show in parts, although it's very believable and a very grounded take on the genre. We don't need hordes of CGI infected or big over the top battles.

[01:30:25] All we need are scary, infected and good actors slash well-written characters trying to navigate the world around them. And then we're going to have to do it. One huge gripe I've always had about it is the ending. And I've heard before that the studio got involved and made Danny Boyle come back and film a happier ending a few months later. That's why the ending hasn't got that gritty color palette and looks more bright as well as not fitting in with the overall tone in the film.

[01:30:52] I personally love the alternate ending where, quote, blank dies. I think we already gave that away. An ending ascent plays over the scene. And after they have finally accepted that blank has passed. Jim. Yeah. Jim. Yeah. That shot where they walk out the doors and the doors close behind them very much ahead of its time.

[01:31:18] Now, other than the brilliant opening scene 28 years later was... I think it means weeks. Ah, right. 28 weeks later was a terrible Americanized mess of a film. I'm really hoping that 28 years later goes back to its roots and knocks it out of the park again. But most importantly, stays grounded and believable. I really like 28 weeks later. I don't know if it holds up or not. Probably... Oh, I'm going to re-watch it now because I'm a completionist.

[01:31:47] I can't remember it. It's not directed by Danny Boyle or I don't think written by Alex Garland either. So it's different filmmakers. It's Robert Carlyle, isn't it? He's great. Yes. Yes. And Jeremy Renner was in it and I watched that movie and thought, oh, that guy was great. Like I hadn't seen him in anything before and then I looked up who it was. Oh, that's Jeremy Renner. I went to high school with him. Yeah. I was going to say, Modesto Zone. I didn't even realize it the whole time I was watching.

[01:32:16] Billy Thompson says, they just re-released this in cinemas in the UK for one night. Absolutely snapped at the chance to actually see this on the big screen as I was only small when it originally came out. I'm actually kind of jealous my missus got to experience it for the first time at the movies. Oh, that's cool. That being said, I had forgotten a lot of the end of the movie when Jim goes back and saves Selena, even that they get saved right at the end. For some reason, I always remembered it being left quite open-ended, but after re-watching, it isn't really. Well, maybe.

[01:32:45] I mean, we don't know if that guy came back or was just like, oh, hello, and then took off. Bye. Bye. Bye. I think one of the reasons it's such a great zombie movie is because it does a lot of the cliche zombie movie scenes really well. Like the emptiness scene that every zombie movie has, Jim shouting hello over and over, walking through the completely empty London, which must be one of the most iconic scenes from the zombie movie genre. To the lawless scene shown through the characters in the shop, just taking whatever they want,

[01:33:15] another classic zombie movie scene. Although Frank does leave his card to pay. Ha ha. I did find the scene where Jim convinces Frank to allow his daughter to take Valium to sleep a bit strange. Was that a normal thing in 2002 to allow your child to take Valium? I mean, it was, if you had just gone through a zombie apocalypse, then it was a little more socially acceptable, I would say. Oh, no. In the UK, it was one of New Labor's policies. To be fair. Half of that. I don't think I'd allow my child to take one, even in the ZA.

[01:33:44] I mean, it was only half, but yeah, I get where you're coming from. Sure. Uh, I love how once the characters arrive at the mansion with the army, the intensity just keeps ramping up and up until Jim finally kills the soldiers. That intense anxiousness is just captured so well in that moment. I'm hoping we see more of this in 28 years, which I'm sure we will. As when we went to the cinema, they showed us an unreleased sneak peek of it. I won't say what happens because I know some don't like spoilers, but let's just say I'm

[01:34:13] now even more excited if that was possible. Can't wait to hear your guys' thoughts on this. Thanks. Bye. I'm actually a little nervous to see it now because I feel like it's going to be, uh, really disturbing. Wait a second. Yeah. Where, when do you go to, what movie theater shows an unreleased sneak peek of it? That is cool. So they re-released, I think it was Cineworld in the UK. They re-released, um, 28 days later in prep for the film. So I bet they bundled it in at the end to get people excited.

[01:34:43] We wanted to go and totally fucked it and didn't. Like, eh. All right. That is our show. Episode 654. Thank you for listening to everybody. As always, Karen, thank you for coming on. Great. Thank you. It's so fun. Yeah. Much of pleasure. Um, yeah, we're going to be back soon.

[01:35:08] Well, next episode is going to be The Walking Dead Dead City Season 2 Episode 7. Novi Don Novi Pulsatak or something with Ben and Alex. And if you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com. And while you're there, please check out our other podcasts. Here's a podcast to check out.

[01:35:32] Um, Penny and Anwen just released an off-season episode of the Cast of the Rings that covers the Rings of Power. Uh, they talked about this, um, animated movie that just came out, um, Rohirrim or War of the Rohirrim. Um, but also Penny just got back recently from a trip to New Zealand where she got to meet and visit with Anwen for the first time and took her around to the Lord of the Rings spots and stuff like that. And they talk about that on this podcast.

[01:36:01] I haven't listened yet, but I'm excited to listen to it. So just wanted to recommend. Yeah. Really cool. And I want to say this episode is made possible by Patreon supporters like a spooky tales who pledged their support at patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi. So thank you. A spooky tales, uh, a couple of cool Patreon things recently. Nathan Eshelman talked about his time at the camp, which is a walking dead convention. That's every year in Atlanta.

[01:36:30] I mean, in Georgia, you know, at the filming sites and everything. And he talked about, um, what happened when he went up to Josh Hamilton and mentioned hashtag horny for Hornsby. That was really fun to hear. We definitely made an impression. We made an impression. I'll say that. Yeah. Uh, and then there was a call in show where we talked about our TV histories and favorite TV moments over the years. There's, you know, we have to go back and stuff like that. So that was, that was a lot of fun. I think there's going to be, go ahead.

[01:37:00] There was a Jason and Karen show. Yeah. There was Jason and Karen show. Oh yeah. That was a couple of weeks ago. Now we, you and I did a podcast together. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Man, we just, it was great. What was the, were we just talking about random things? We were right. Yeah. Picking up. Okay. Like two hours zipped right on by. Yeah. Thank you. I can't believe I wasn't going to mention that. Yeah. It was fantastic. I really enjoyed it. Took me right back.

[01:37:27] It's called, it's, I have a Patreon exclusive podcast called the Zed Head Show. No, it was just the Jason and Karen show, which me and Karen used to do a while back, but we did another episode of that one. So it's Patreon exclusive. If you want to hear me and Karen talk about all kinds of stuff for two hours, it was really fun. It really was. It really did zip by. Anyway, but that's going to, I think the prices are going to go up on my Patreon in a little bit here. But if you get in now, then you can get in before that happens. Friends and family. Beat the rush.

[01:37:57] Patreon.com slash Jason. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. Don't get bit Mark Kohler. Don't get blood in your eye. Ich bin Charissa und meine Empfehlung an alle Entrepreneure startet mit Shopify erfolgreich durch. Ich verwende Shopify schon seit dem ersten Tag und die Plattform macht mir nie Probleme. Ich habe viele Probleme, aber die Plattform ist nie eins davon. Ich habe das Gefühl, dass Shopify ihre Plattform kontinuierlich optimiert. Alles ist super einfach integrierend und verlinkbar.

[01:38:26] Und die Zeit und das Geld, das ich dadurch spare, kann ich anderweitig investieren. Vor allem in Wachstum. Jetzt kostenlos testen auf Shopify.de