27: "Janine" (S6E5)

[00:00:03] the

[00:00:30] 28th of July, The Handmaids Tale Podcast, Podcastica hurt your feelings, didn't he? Lawrence will fall in line. He always does. I want him on the wall. You think your father will allow it? I can get him there. Reynolds. I like it. He's done.

[00:01:07] Hey, everybody. Welcome to our podcast. I'm Daphne. And I'm Wendy. And I'm Jason. And this is The Handmaid's Tale podcast. This week, we're covering The Handmaid's Tale, Season 6, Episode 5, Janine. Janine. I was glad to see the podcast entitled that. And then just now when I looked at it, I thought, oh, I'm surprised we didn't think that this might have been her last episode. Yeah. That was my first thought. Honestly,

[00:01:36] I was worried. Yeah. I'm so worried. To be honest, the titles caused me a lot of anxiety. Just one word. Yeah. Yeah. You don't know what to expect going into this. This is the final season. We're already halfway done. It's crazy. I know. How is that possible? Yeah. You look at it and you think, okay, we've been with these characters for six seasons. And now I'm just feeling like we're

[00:02:06] easing into six and nobody's died and we're gonna see some coming. So I feel like the tears are gonna flow. This episode feels like, okay, we're heading into something. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really concerned. I think we're there. Yeah. I mean, it ends up with our main characters in a trunk.

[00:02:26] Yeah. In Gilead. It's never good to end up in a trunk. No, it's not. It's not. So let's kick off with overall thoughts. And I, I'm going to go first. I just want to say, I feel like Wendy just said, like, this is probably the last episode where things are going to not be as intense.

[00:02:56] Yeah. The last calm one. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's definitely going to take off from here. And I am nervous. I thought this episode set things up for the next probably two episodes at least with the reconnections that we got with Lawrence and Moira and June, given Lawrence's position and

[00:03:24] the information he's just learned. I think June as an ally at this time might be just what he needs to get through. Yeah. I was thinking maybe that might've influenced him to go ahead and say, all right, come with me because what he just found out maybe he would have done that otherwise. And Janine too. Like she, she helped him. She knew what they were plotting.

[00:03:48] Yeah. She did. So overall, I thought this was another great episode. I think this season has really been strong. I don't feel like there's a lot of dead weight in an episode. I feel like everything that they're giving us, there's a reason, there's a purpose. And I feel like honestly, this series has been that way from the beginning. So I'm happy that that consistency is continuing.

[00:04:17] All right. Wendy, what do you think? I felt very similarly. It felt like it was moving all the pieces into place and we're headed for some serious action, I would think. And it scares me. Yeah. But I thought it was great. I really, really liked it. I loved all the Jezebels, you know, I thought that was really meaty.

[00:04:46] Yeah. So I really enjoyed it. I wasn't, I didn't feel like there was any filler time at all. Yeah. We have seen Jezebels before, but not, not at this level. I feel like we're getting a bigger look of the inside of what it looks like and how, how things are for the women that are stuck there. Um, we always knew it was bad, but you're really getting to see it in these last couple

[00:05:16] episodes. So yeah, I definitely agree. Jason, what about you? But you were talking about, this might be the last one that, you know, before we head into Handmaid's Tale being more like it normally is basically right where it might be more disturbing. And, um, you didn't say that, but that's kind of what I got from what you're saying.

[00:05:42] Yeah. No, you are, you're 100%. Yeah. And it made me realize that I, I wonder if some people are finding this season a little boring. And I think for me, I was like, on a subconscious level, I was like, this is good. I don't want anything to happen. You know, it's like a relief for nothing disturbing. I mean, we can just end now. And yeah, just stop.

[00:06:10] Luke and June are happily ever after. Kissed each other. Nick's the side piece. It's, it's all good. It's all good. Fine. Um, but, uh, I thought this was a great episode. I, I'm really excited to see what happens next after some of the, despite what I just said, uh, after some of the developments in this episode. In fact, this was the episode that we've watched so far where I was like, Oh, I can't keep going. That's a bummer. I really wanted to know what was going to happen next. So it's a good one.

[00:06:39] That's how I felt too. I really wanted to watch the next one because I feel like we're at the cliff. Yeah. And I'm ready to like jump and see, but even though I'm kind of still terrified about it, I kind of want to watch it too. Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited to watch soon. Yeah. I'm stoked to watch the next one. I don't know what we're going to get, but I'm, I'm all in. We've got five episodes left of this season

[00:07:09] and I just, which is crazy. I know, but I trust, I trust the show runners. They're, they're going to land the plane. It's going to happen. I think we're going to see some real highs, some wins and some losses. Yeah. I think we have to be prepared for that. And I'm kind of been preparing myself for it.

[00:07:32] I think in the weeks leading up to us starting to cover this and then like listening back to what you guys said on the recap, I've kind of just been easing myself in thinking, okay. All right. It's, it's going to be bumpy. So let's, let's just hold on, put your seatbelt on because it's happening.

[00:07:58] So that said, let's jump into our points and I, I volunteer. I'll go first. Um, I want to talk a little bit about Nick. Um, it's not my biggest point, but it's a point that I really think where there's a lot of potential for some action. I think when Nick shot the two men,

[00:08:29] he thought he was killing them and we find out that one of them is alive and it appeared like he was going to let the guy go basically by not doing something. When he went to visit him, the patient Toby, um, we don't know if he's going to really live or die.

[00:08:55] He's, he's coming in and out of consciousness. He's talking about his dog. He doesn't seem to really all be there. Doesn't really seem to know who Nick is. And so I think at first Nick was just going to leave and not do anything, but then he turned around and basically took away the loose ends.

[00:09:18] Yep. Um, protecting himself. Um, because again, Wharton said at the beginning, Nick is responsible for safety. People are going to want to feel safe if they come to live in new Bethlehem. They've had all of these families that have been reunited and that the breach of security that took place was on Nick's

[00:09:45] watch. And so he's responsible. And so while this is one of his guardians in order to protect himself and I think protect new Bethlehem in some ways, Nick makes the decision to, I mean, we don't see it, but I'm assuming that's what he does is he suffocate to, um,

[00:10:11] something right. That's what we're led to believe. We don't know for sure. Didn't leave a chocolate on his pillow or anything. No, no. Um, again, I think it was sad to see because you get to see Toby's mother and she's obviously, you know, hoping for his recovery and everything. And she has this nice little chit chat with Nick about, Oh, you know, he's so happy to be in the guardians and thank you so much for coming. And

[00:10:41] Nick offers of course, to stay behind and give her a break. And he tests Toby to find out if, you know, he recognizes him or whatever. And basically he decides not to take a chance on having everything that he's built be dismantled by this kid. If he regains any of his mental

[00:11:07] faculties. And I'm sure that that was hard, but that's not out of the realm of, I guess what I expected Nick to do. I know maybe some people are thinking, Oh, I can't believe he did that. I really was not that surprised because I feel like he's so engrossed in everything that he's had to do that this to me, though, he mightn't have been a little conflicted seemed

[00:11:37] really to be in line with everything. He's going to protect himself. He's going to protect what he's built June, all of it. And so that's, that's my thoughts on that. I mean, is there no end to what Nick will do and what Nick will risk for June? At this point? No, not that I've seen.

[00:12:08] And the other question I had about that is when Wharton was talking to Nick, it seemed like he's suspicious of Nick, right? No, I don't think so. You don't think so? I'm not sure. No. I mean, it's almost like he led him to that action. I think, I think he's just being, he's being stern because this thing happened in, under Nick's watch, just like he said.

[00:12:36] And Nick is married to his daughter. Yeah. I don't, I don't think he's, why would he suspect that Nick had something to do with that? I'm suspicious of Wharton in general. Yeah, of course. And everything he decides to do, I question. I mean, we don't know what Rose has told him and Rose knows a lot. I mean, I, yeah, maybe you're right. Yeah. Yeah. Could be. But I just like, he's a big question mark.

[00:13:01] Wharton said, you know, one of those guys that was shot is in a coma and may recover. And Nick's like, oh, oh, good. Praise be. I'll pray for him. I'll pray for him. Like, yes, you will. You'll pray for him with a pillow to his face. And then in the room, you know, uh, you see that mom praising this kid.

[00:13:28] Oh, he was so brave, a man of honor like you. And I didn't see one sign of any struggle with Nick. He's like, yes, ma'am. I can stay here with him if you like. Like, can you please leave so I can kill him? And you know, Amy, by the way, I, I listened to the episode last week and I thought Amy was really good. And I very much enjoyed it. Um, I, and so thank you for coming on, Amy. That said, she called Nick inscrutable to me. He just comes off dull.

[00:13:57] You've been saying that, Jason, from the beginning. And so here where he's like, you know, uh, I just get out so I can kill him. Then he did think about it to be fair. Like, he's like, do you know me? And the guy's like, uh, no, I didn't seem to know him. He's worried about his dog. And then he's like, eh, I better go. I'll finish him off just in case. And I, I can't blame him. I think if Nick is going to stay in Gilead, then it's. Potentially either this kid or Nick.

[00:14:27] So of course he's going to choose himself. But, um, I don't know. It didn't seem that all that deep to me. It was just some guy protecting himself. I think it was supposed to show his reluctance. Like he convinced himself that the kid didn't remember anything and it was all fine. But then as he's leaving, he realizes how stupid it is. And I don't think it's stupid. I'm just saying how, how stupid it is that he would leave such a loose end. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I agree with that.

[00:14:56] He's done so many things already. Right. Yeah. I mean, he shot the kid in the head. Yeah. Right. He put him in that situation. It's a tragic situation because this kid is brought up in a cult and he's a devout follower. And, um, at certain, at a certain point in anyone's life, you can't blame their parents or their upbringing anymore. They have to take responsibility. But on some level, I'm like, it's not that guy's fault that he was there.

[00:15:21] He's brought up in this, but Nick had no choice but to kill him and, or to shoot him in the first place. Because, because again, it was either, when it's either you or me, but that's, that's the tragedy of these kinds of situations where you have, you do have good people in Gilead and you have good people in Canada and they're forced to kill each other because of the assholes at the top. You know? And that's what happens in the real world too. That's what most wars are about. Yeah. Yeah. That's what happens.

[00:15:50] And we're going to be seeing stuff like that on The Last of Us this season too. It's all about perspective and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. There's a lot of times, Liz, when you just said that war, there's always good people on both sides. It's just that they're often caught in the crossfire of everything, unfortunately. And I, so I'm not trying to say I blame Nick.

[00:16:17] I think that was a tragic but perfectly reasonable thing to do given the context and the situation. Yeah. I mean, it's murder. Yeah. But if he doesn't do it, then he's going to be murdered. He's going to be killed. I worried. I mean, not worried, but I thought about the poor kid's quality of life.

[00:16:44] The fact that mentally he seemed to be so diminished. He may have died anyway in a few hours. Yeah. I just. No, we can't. We can't give him those passes. No, we can't. We're not going to. Yeah. I mean, he could have made a complete recovery. I just. You think he shouldn't have done it, Wendy? I think he had no choice, but. I mean, no one knows what they'll do until they're in those situations. And Nick is certainly in a life or death situation.

[00:17:14] But Nick could have left Gilead. He's had the opportunity. He probably still could instead of staying in Gilead where he's forced to murder innocents. And I know the kid was a guardian, but he's been raised to be a guardian. He's a soldier. That's what I was saying. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. He's brought up in a cult. Okay. You're right. Nick's a monster. Oh, my gosh. Had a debate, Nick, in 60 seconds. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. Okay.

[00:17:45] So, Wendy, what's your first point? I'll follow up a little bit about Serena and Warden. Yeah. Because I feel like they're painting a picture of Warden that, yes, he believes in Gilead, but he believes in the Gilead that's in the Bible, I guess.

[00:18:08] You know, like he doesn't believe in the Jezebels and the rape culture, although Handmaid Tales are that. He believes, you know, but I believe that's just a picture that we're being given. And I feel like we're about to have a big reveal on him. And him and Serena are really sweet together, right? Yeah.

[00:18:38] I mean, he's handsome. She's beautiful. He's sweet. He's romantic. He's showing that he's not the manly man that some of the other commanders are. Like, he cooks and he's serving her. And but I kind of feel like that's all a ruse. And he got her. He proposes. She tries to say no three times. And he keeps going.

[00:19:05] He tells her everything she wants to hear. And she just laps it all up and takes that ring. And I feel just how could she be so stupid? She has had chance after chance after chance to get out of this society. And she just keeps going back. And I feel like there's I could be wrong. Maybe they're just going to be a big power couple and turn things around in Gilead. It could go that way.

[00:19:34] But I don't think so. I think we have a big reveal coming about him. And I don't think it's going to be good. And I don't think it's going to be good for Serena. I mean, that would be the best story. It would be. Right? Like, I can't wait for that to happen. I have to wonder, though, if she will go through that. What if she finds out? And doesn't go through with it. I don't think she's going to find out until it's done. Until it's over. Yeah.

[00:20:05] There's got to be sleeping with the enemy or something like that. Yeah. It could be. Well, yeah. So, I mean, he's, like you said, telling her everything she wants to hear. Absolutely. And that, you know, she doesn't want her to stop writing. That they'll split their time so she can spend half the time in New Bethlehem where she feels this calling from God. He'd be honored to raise another man's child, Noah. And then they can have even more babies together. All this. Everything is right.

[00:20:32] But the question I have is, how long does it take to build a library? Because that's a pretty big gesture. Did he just whip it up over the last couple of days? No, it's been planned. And that tells me this has all been a long-term plan to get with Serena. And so that tells me it's a power play. Well, he did ask. He's the one that asked Lawrence about Serena. Like, do you plan to bring Serena in? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:00] And so it's been a plan the whole time. And now he's acting all sweet on her. But it's just part of his plan to get with her so he can have, you know, she's got power that comes with her. And who knows what his intentions are. But I'm having that same feeling you guys are that it's not going to be good for her. I don't think. Yeah, I don't think so. And I am really intrigued by all of it.

[00:21:27] Like, for me, it's a very fascinating part of the story that we're seeing right now. Because there's just something that doesn't fit right. Yeah. And I don't think it's going to be. I mean, I don't know. Maybe it will. But I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't as simple as he's actually just totally going to shut down her writing and be another Fred. Maybe it will be just trying to leverage her power for something.

[00:21:55] Or, you know, if I think kind of the least exciting might just be that the devil's in the details. That he does think he's going to be doing what she wants. But when it really comes to it, it won't be what she wants. And they don't quite line up. You know? He does seem very different than the other commanders. Like, he's not going to go to Jezebel's. He's not following that pattern.

[00:22:23] But I also wonder if there is a dark aside to him that's even worse. Yeah. That we haven't seen. That's what I think. I think there's. That would be the most interesting. Yeah. Yeah. That he's hiding things. Yeah. I mean, there's just a certain way that Rose looks at him at different times that leads me to believe that there is just something that we don't know. Oh, that's interesting. I didn't catch that. Like, she's afraid of him or something? Just like she knows something. Okay.

[00:22:53] And so we'll see. That is just something that I have not been able to let go of. That'd be funny if we go back and rewatch and Rose is just, like, giving him dirty looks all the time. Yeah. Yeah. There's just a certain look that she gives him and it's not sitting well. And I just don't believe that the showrunners would paint him to be this way if there wasn't something deeper there. Yeah.

[00:23:21] I don't think that we're going to suddenly get to the end and, oh, yes, he was just as amazing as what we thought he was. No. No way. I think I'm just too skeptical because of not just this show, but so many shows make you have to think and follow patterns. And so now, even if a show is straightforward, I'm looking for that underlying pattern to figure out something that isn't there maybe. But I don't think so in this case.

[00:23:49] I think there is something. I was just screaming at the screams. Like, don't do it. Don't do it, Serena. And she did it. And it was interesting because there was a sweetness to it, but also I think everyone watching is having similar thoughts to us. Like, I don't think this is going to go well. So it was like mixed. And even the music was mixed. If you listen, it's kind of sweet, but there's a little bit of an off vibe to it.

[00:24:20] Yeah. It's. Yeah. So a little bit more about Serena. She talks with Lydia and I feel like they're prepping something here. And she was pretty honest with Lydia. She basically said that initially she didn't really care about the handmaids. She wanted a child. And she said the handmaids brand is fertility. And Lydia calls that offensive. But really, what did you think it was? Like, that's the whole point. Yeah. Yeah. And.

[00:24:51] Like, it feels like they're setting them up to team up. And in my best of thoughts, I would say, you know, Lydia and Serena and Joseph teaming, maybe Nick teaming up to change things. But I don't know if all of their motivations are in line. I mean, Lydia's we see pretty plainly, but Serena's is complicated.

[00:25:18] Like, yeah, I feel like she wants to do better with her life than she has previously. But also it's all wrapped up in her personal wants and her struggle for power. And now just add this romance into it. And I don't I don't know where that's all going to go. Yeah.

[00:25:43] I don't know that they're on the same page about it because Serena is still bought into Gilead in the teachings and all of that still. And Lydia is, too, but in a different way. Lawrence, who knows? And Nick, he's really thinking, how can I help June? This has to do with June, June, June, June. I mean, they're not on the same page. I don't.

[00:26:08] Yeah, I think the way they've presented Nick towards the end of last season in this season, he's more like, can I just get along? Like, you know, he almost wants June to leave him alone. But of course, when June calls, he'll answer. But then he's like, right. It was this other guy like God, you know, he just wants to put his head down and survive. That's the feeling I get from him. Oh, yeah.

[00:26:38] But then he keeps getting drawn into these things. Yep. He can't say no. Yeah. Like, he can't say no. I'm afraid the time that he does say no is good. Or if he even does, is just going to be like the time she needs him the most. And I don't know. He won't say no. I don't think he will. All right.

[00:27:07] Jason, what's your first point? My first point is self-centeredness. Because there were two big instances of self-centeredness in this episode. One with Serena that you just mentioned. And one with June. So when Lydia is complaining to Serena that she was told the handmaids would be, I thought they would be rewarded for their service. Or that's what they told me. And Serena's like, and you believe them? And she's like, well, what did you think happened to the handmaids? And there's like a pause.

[00:27:37] And then it's like, you didn't even give it a thought. No. Of course not. And that says something. It goes back to this problem that's coming more to the fore in our country, which is there's this epidemic of not caring about bad things that happen to other people and only caring once the impact gets to them, you know, the people who didn't care about the other people. We've seen that a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:07] And that's a problem. Like, yeah. And the people right in the center of the policies that hurt a lot of people are the ones that feel the safest. And so they can be the most devout about it. But it's just like people are suffering because of this stuff. And that's Serena. And that's what Madeline, one of our listeners who was mad at me for sympathizing with Serena, that was her point, too.

[00:28:33] Just like it gets to her when people only care when it impacts them. And that's, yeah, that is who she is. And you get enough people who think like that and they band together and they think that they're the people, the special people, and nobody else matters. But I mean, it's just, yeah, that's a problem. Yeah, it's very destructive. It's destructive, that mindset. And I think ultimately it's not good for anyone.

[00:29:02] If you take it to the extreme, it's not even good for the people who are the self-centered ones. I agree. Things get too lopsided in society. So, yeah, then Serena tells Lydia she wants to open this fertility center in New Bethlehem, which like the one that was in Canada. And I think that was like fertility education and maybe some medical services or something. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

[00:29:29] And the handmaids would retire and be attendants there since their brand is fertility. And Lydia loves that. She said it would be divine providence or something. But it's fucked up because it sounds like the handmaids would still be this class of woman who sinned and they're below everyone else. And now they're- Like untouchables. Yeah. And now they're forced to do this job whether they want to or not. And yeah, it's way better than what they were doing before for sure.

[00:29:57] But it's still not good, you know? They're still servants. Yeah. They're slaves. Slaves, really? Yeah. Yeah. And they're like, oh, we're so great for coming up with this great solution that's going to make everything better. And it's like, ah. I know. It's frustrating. So frustrating. So we'll see how that goes. Then I'm not going to cover all of the stuff at Jezebel's, but just the part about June and Moira are there with Janine exchanging information.

[00:30:27] And then June all of a sudden goes, why don't you come back with us, Janine? And Moira's like, excuse me? Like that we have a point of being here. And if you take Janine back, that's going to bring a lot of security and it's going to just mess up the whole mission. And that's June acting without thinking in a way that could make things worse. And on the other side of the equation in the real world, I kind of worry about that thing. People thinking about how they should deal with the crisis in the United States right now.

[00:30:56] Like I'm still hopeful that a vote in the midterms will matter and that we will still get to have a vote and that it will be a legitimate vote. A fair and safe election. Yeah, I mean, I hope that's my hope. Right. And if we start getting violent or vandalizing a lot or whatever it is, then I think that could turn sentiment. The other side is good at spinning things and turning things, you know, using that kind of a thing. So did they pass the save act?

[00:31:25] Did they? I don't think so. Not yet. Not yet. So that that will. Decide whether we have a fair election. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because that will basically. Make it so. Cut off a lot of people that are that don't have resources and women. And women. Yeah. We should talk a little bit more about that. Maybe we can talk about that in the Mayday section. But yeah, if that. Yeah.

[00:31:54] I mean, I'm just saying maybe there will be a point where violence is the only recourse. But I just think if you do that, like comparing it to June here, if you just act how you feel. In the moment, it could end up hurting you. You have to think these things through sometimes. Yeah. So Moira is rightly pissed at accusing June of being self-centered, not thinking of the mission, and also seeming to think she had it worse than everyone else, including Moira. And she's like, fuck you.

[00:32:20] I have PTSD from this place where I was raped every single night that we're standing in right now. And I was really glad that she gave it to June like that. But then June really doesn't acknowledge. She just like makes a joke out of it. Oh, you're right. You suffered more than me. And then she says, you know, I know I won't ever understand what you went through. But if we start comparing our suffering, those fuckers will win.

[00:32:46] And I just felt like that was a way for June to duck any accountability for the way that she was behaving as far as being self-centered. And then June finally just said one thing. If I was a bad friend, I'm really sorry. Okay. And then the guardian came in. So there was just a little hint of like self-awareness there, but it wasn't much. I thought June was sincere when she said that. I don't think she was joking.

[00:33:11] I think they both kind of started to smile at each other when they realized how silly. Oh, okay. I'm not silly. That's not the right word at all. But I thought she was sincere that she was so singularly focused on her trauma and she was letting Moira's trauma in right there. I thought. Yeah.

[00:33:37] I'm not sure because she was saying because Moira started laughing as June was saying it and it made it seem like June was just talking about how ridiculous it would be to compare their suffering. Rather than acknowledging that Moira actually did suffer more. I think honestly, sometimes June will block things out when it comes to other people because she's had to.

[00:34:07] That's called being self-centered. Well, I mean, as a mechanism for self-preservation, there's been a lot of times that she's had to look only at what's happening right in front of her because she's in a situation that she can't. That she's got to make decisions. It's live or die all the time. So you don't think Moira had a point? No, I definitely think Moira had a point.

[00:34:34] I think she had a point, but it can't be a contest. I mean, June hasn't, at least that we've seen on screen, June hasn't told them about everything that's happened to her. And it isn't a contest, but June's had her child taken away from her for most of her life. Yeah, no, I mean, I'm not saying she's had it easy.

[00:34:58] But I think the reason why Moira came up with that is because she's like, you know, you just almost jeopardized this mission because you're feeling so upset about not being able to take your friend here. But she's like, I was here having to suffer through all this and I'm having a lot of feelings about it, but I'm putting those aside for the greater good. And you should be doing that, too, basically. I think it was what Moira was saying, you know.

[00:35:26] I also don't think June has ever really sat down and told Luke or Moira everything that she's been through. I think she has held them at arm's length at times and not been honest about things that she was forced to do or how she was able to survive.

[00:35:44] And I think some of this from Moira in this episode is, you know, it's pent up frustration, too, for the fact that June just has not been open about things. And kind of so focused on her own struggle and everything she went through, which was traumatic.

[00:36:05] Almost so much that she's just not included anyone in her inside to help her process or deal with the hurt and the pain and everything that happened. And in this instance, this was coming because at the beginning of the episode, when I think it's Atmosphere by Joy Division was playing. You see their interaction. And my first note about it was.

[00:36:34] We've got to have a heart to heart because these two. There are feelings on both sides. These Moira and June are not in a place they need to be to be going on this mission. And there's got to be like. Some clearing of the air. Yeah. And I was glad it did. Their talk ended up feeling like, OK, they've there's some tension that's been released there. And they say they love each other. And that was very nice. And I enjoyed that. But I get Moira's point. Like they've all been through stuff.

[00:37:04] But sometimes June is the one that acts like she's the only one. Like I'm going to be the one to go in there. Not you, Luke. And I just like it's very centered on her experience. And this show is about her. So maybe there's a symptom of that. But I just thought it was funny in the same episode where Lydia basically accuses Serena of thinking only of herself. That Moira kind of accused June of that, too. And I do think that's a purposeful thing on the writer's part.

[00:37:29] That even when June and Serena don't have scenes together, that the show is often still like a dance between them. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I think so, too. I think that this discussion or this conversation, the timing couldn't have been worse. They needed to leave. They had 10 minutes to spare. They kept showing the door. And all I could think is someone's coming in that door. This is not good. You guys need to go. This is not the conversation I have right now. Well, Janine said you need to wait 10 minutes. Right.

[00:37:59] So until the Guardians changed shifts. I feel like they waited more than 10 minutes. I do. It was a serious discussion to have. Yeah. And you got to keep your head in the game. Yeah. That's true. Life or death. They're on a TV show. You need drama. They really needed to have this conversation before they went in on this mission. Yeah. Because it shouldn't be derailing things. But it didn't.

[00:38:25] The idea wasn't that them talking about this is what derailed it. They were supposed to be sitting there waiting. So, you know. Yeah. I feel for June because I'm sure she wanted to scoop Janine up and get her out of there. But I think she also underestimated Janine a little bit, thinking Janine would leave because she's not going to leave without her friends. She's not. She wants to get them out of there.

[00:38:51] She's, I mean, we're talking about Janine. How far has that character come over this show? She's been through so much. She has been through so much. And for her to be in this place where she's putting these girls in their lives over her own needs to escape and get away. She's just, it's just been mad, like amazing to watch her character develop and to get to this point.

[00:39:21] Yeah. Yeah. I like her character so much more now, too. Yeah. Than when it first started. I always liked her, but I just like her more. Yeah. Yeah. They've done so much. They've expanded her so much from where she was in the novel. Yeah. It's grown. Like you meet Janine, you see what she goes through in the first few seasons.

[00:39:49] And then everything that I feel like the last two, especially she has just blossomed into someone who could be a leader more than I ever thought possible. I feel like June's rubbed off on her. The good things have rubbed off on her and she.

[00:40:07] But I still, like she still tends to just get really emotional and then make mistakes sometimes. Or I don't know if it's a mistake, but you know the way she yelled at Naomi, that could have gotten her killed, you know? Yeah. So she still sometimes just gets out of control with herself, I guess. I don't know. Is that the wrong way to put it? I mean, I don't know, Jason.

[00:40:36] I think Commander Bell is a piece of shit. Yeah. And the fact that she hasn't taken him in a room and sliced his throat. Yeah. I'd say she's using incredible restraint. You're right. You're absolutely right. Because he is horrible to her. Horrible to her. He's a fucker. And yet her, one of the other women at Jezebel said that he was obsessed with her. That was interesting to find out. Yeah. Yeah. He is obsessed.

[00:41:06] And I think you could see that in this episode, which Jason, do you have any more to add to your point? Nope. Okay. Then let's, we can transition into mine, which is about Lawrence and what we see from him in this episode. He kind of rescues Janine in a way, which Janine, Janine did push a few buttons when she was being super frustrated.

[00:41:36] It was friendly to Lawrence. It pissed Bell off a lot. And Janine, I'm sure she wanted to do that, honestly. I think she did. I think she's probably fed up with Bell and his nonsense. It seemed purposeful, right? Yes. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think she was saying, I need to talk to you. But maybe Daphne's right, too. And I'll do that in a way that will piss this asshole off at the same time. Yes.

[00:42:06] And also, you know what? It actually ended up orchestrating something that was very important for Lawrence to see. Which is Bell getting pissed off and wanting to see Lawrence on the wall. And the dismantling of New Bethlehem and returning to the old ways. Which is not what Lawrence wants. So he got to see through peeping through the wall that these commanders are not really on his side.

[00:42:33] And that New Bethlehem right now is really a house of cards that could come tumbling down at any time. It's clear they want to get people back into Gilead and then go right back to the old way and force them back into a life that they don't want. And it's so dumb. Like, what does that get you? I mean, you got some people back, but then they're just going to try and leave. You're just going to be in the exact same position.

[00:43:01] But maybe they're fine with the position that they're in. Yeah, they want to close the borders. They want everything to be shut down again. They just want to live their little life the way that they want to live it. And I'm glad that Janine pushed him to that point. Because I think Lawrence really needed to see that these people are not people he should be trusting.

[00:43:24] And that his efforts to gain or ingratiate himself into their club is not going to really bear the fruit that he's hoping it's going to. And so he's got some decisions to make. And then how serendipitous that number one troublemaker and Gilead's most wanted list.

[00:43:51] Number one, June Osborne is now in the trunk of his car. Yeah. Honestly, if I were him, I'd be thinking, okay, she's here. She can help me with this mess. He could just take her home. I'm sure Naomi would be fine with it. Yeah, no. I'm wondering where she and Moira are going to end up. I'm not really sure. Yeah.

[00:44:20] Hiding in Nick's basement? Maybe. Not really sure. But it was after watching Belle be such an asshole. Watching Lawrence stand up to him. No one likes you and no one respects you. It just made me happy, honestly. I was happy. I was glad Lawrence stood up to him.

[00:44:47] Because obviously, no one really stands up to him. And he needs it. So, yeah. That's kind of my point. I think Lawrence is now in a position that... I mean, really? He's been in positions before and had to dig his way out. I'm interested in how he digs himself out of this one.

[00:45:14] I mean, his whole story for the last couple of seasons, last season and up to now, has been about trying to do something about Gilead by creating this whole New Bethlehem thing and reforming it, right? And he's, at the beginning of this, talking with the other commanders. Like, we need to expand faster. First, they're talking about their Mercedes that they got, which came about because of these New Bethlehem trade agreements and the good press that it's giving.

[00:45:43] And, oh, you must be happy, Lawrence. And then he's like, yeah, we need to make it bigger. We can double it within a year. And they're like, sure, buddy. We'll take a look. And we know. You can just see from everybody's reaction, even Wharton. He's just like, well, yeah, I'm just sort of... It's a test. It's an experiment. Waiting to see how it'll pan out. And so, yeah, I think you're right. Wendy Janine's probably heard them talk about what they really think about it when he's not there.

[00:46:13] So she takes him in the other room and says, you're not a good guy, but just compared to them, you are. And he goes, thank you. Yeah. I love that. But then when, you know, she had him spy on the commanders and it just happens to be, well, they're saying something crucially important that he hear. That's Department of Suspension and Disbelief to me, but it's fine. She probably had already heard them talking about it. Well, Lawrence just called him out. So I felt... Yeah.

[00:46:42] I feel like... Yeah. That was the time it was going to happen. It's like on shows when they turn the news on and they're talking about the thing that they need them to be talking about. So then they say they're going to give it three or four years to, and then clamp down on Bethlehem, bring as many people as they can in first, then close the borders and quote, reinstitute tradition, and then put Lawrence on the wall. And so one of the other commanders gives up like token resistance,

[00:47:10] but by the end he's like, okay, fine, just get rid of Lawrence. And this is all like we talked about this in our first episode, that we suspected that this was going to happen and how real world authoritarian regimes have often used controlled liberalization or PR friendly zones to improve their image or lure exiles back. Like China promising Hong Kong would retain freedoms after the handover from the UK in 97,

[00:47:38] and then once global pressure lessened, Beijing cracked down. And it's just like China there now. Or I had a few examples, but the other one that stood out, the Assad regime in Syria, where he in recent years called for refugees to return, claiming the war is over and it's safe. And then many who returned were imprisoned, tortured or disappeared. So it's just like that, right? It is turning out just like that.

[00:48:03] And anybody who, anybody from Gilead who's like, oh, look, I can go back to New Bethlehem and it'll be okay. They're in grave danger. And it does make me wonder like, what is, where is this story going? What, that's, this was the most interesting thing to me about this episode. Because this thing that we suspected was going on is going on. And now you wonder what's going to, like Serena's fate is really tied to this. Lydia's getting in there. Lawrence and everybody.

[00:48:34] Rita. Rita. Yeah, yeah. So you wonder like, is it by the end of this next five episodes, will New Bethlehem still be a thing? Or will it be totally destroyed? Or what, what's going to happen? Like I, that's what I can't wait to find out. It's terrifying too though. Yeah. I have no idea. And I've not read any of Testament, so I know nothing about what happens or how that may or may not impact what happens the rest of the season.

[00:49:01] Because I purposely put it off until after this is done. So I have no idea. And I kind of like it. Because there's just a lot of, I just, I like shows that make you have to think. And so trying to figure out what might, may or may not be going on is fascinating to me. So I'm totally just engrossed in trying to predict my, what might come next.

[00:49:30] I think also doing yellow jackets just before this and coming into the season and feeling like strings are on a wall tied to push pins and maps and things. Yeah. It's definitely a thing. For sure. Okay. Okay. Okay. Wendy, what do you have? I'm going to talk more about that because that was one of my points.

[00:49:55] All of this, like we saw the commanders and how their interactions are and Bell's obviously just a monster. And he was probably a monster before and he's a monster now. Yeah. And the other commanders seem more reasonable, although, you know, they are there, but they seem more reasonable, more toned down.

[00:50:23] But he really ramps up the pressure on them until they like, now we're all conspiring to kill Joseph, basically. He reminds me of Matt Gaetz. Oh, oh my God. Yes. You're right. Yes. Think about it. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. No. He's got the same face. He's out. Maybe it is him. Oh my God. It's so gross. It's so gross. Yeah.

[00:50:52] Did you think that before, Daffy? I couldn't put my finger on who it was and you. Yeah. I can't get enough brain bleach now. Can he please? Dear Bruce Miller. Well, I think. Can he get his comeuppance? I think he's going to, right? Oh yeah. It's an easy win. I mean, when he's saying to June, as you wipe off my pants now higher, I'm like, okay, you're going to have a gruesome death, buddy. Yeah. That's coming.

[00:51:22] Please. I'll be cheering. I'll tell you what. In the next few episodes, if he goes down, just know the two of you. You're cheering somewhere. But I'm cheering in my living room. But this reminded me a lot of what we're seeing happening now to anyone that doesn't tow the Trump MAGA party line.

[00:51:43] Even lifelong conservative Republicans, if they don't agree with everything he says, they are out. And just one little example of this is the federal judge who ruled against Trump's illegal deportations. He's been a real target of this. His name is James Jeb Bosberg.

[00:52:09] He was named to D.C. Superior Court by President George Bush. And he was named to the federal bench by Obama. You know, back when bipartisanship was a thing. That is gone. I mean, it is it is tow the company line or you are out. Yeah.

[00:52:33] He's he has a very long and reputable career of following the rule of law, regardless of the party, regardless of the pressure that's put on him for political reasons. And he ruled against the Justice Department, who was investigating Trump in the 2016 collusion with Russian election interference due to errors and improprieties that were used during that investigation.

[00:53:01] So he's not on anybody's side. He's just following the rule of law, which is what we need judges to do. But it's all about loyalty with Trump. It's not about. Right. And now he's got Supreme Court justices that are pretty willing to break the rule of law. Yeah. To give him what he wants. Wait, how is this aligned with the thing with Lawrence?

[00:53:29] Because the ability of them to just go along with whatever's in front of them, the commanders. Oh, yeah, yeah. And, you know, none of none of like his previous history, his his lifelong career, you know, a storied and an honorable career. None of that matters to Trump. No way.

[00:53:53] After two deportation flights continued to El Salvador, despite the verbal order that they be turned around, he convened a hearing on Monday to discuss possible defiance of his ruling by the Trump administration and the Justice Department, which is now, you know, has to be loyal to Trump or they're out. So the Justice Department is trying to have him removed from the case.

[00:54:21] And Trump has escalated the whole situation. He's publicly, you know, called him out as a troublemaker and an agitator. And he needs to be immediately impeached. This is what Trump said. They're just firing and canceling anyone who dares to oppose them, even when their actions are obviously illegal.

[00:54:40] And in addition to this, they're using Twitter, you know, to basically sick their base on these people so that now I think we have 60 judges that have to have security details because they've been, you know, pointed out by Musk and Trump and that administration as not towing the company line.

[00:55:07] And so they're having death threats, death threats against their families. Like this is how people cave. You know, if it's if it's I'm going to lose my whole job, my financial income and maybe, you know, somebody might decide to kill my wife. People are going to cave. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's also like Lisa Murkowski came out. She's a Republican senator in Alaska.

[00:55:35] And somebody asked, I forget what the question was about why, you know, she said we're all scared right now. And she's afraid of saying too much because of retaliation. But she's that said more than any of the other ones. I think half or more of the senators go along with everything Trump does just because they want power. So they're staying loyal. They don't have any scruples.

[00:56:00] But I think half of them or some amount of them are just they just know that if they vote against him, then he's going to sick his people on him. Like you said, their family could be in danger. Their careers will probably be ruined. They'll get voted out because Trump and Elon Musk will pay for somebody else's campaign who's loyal. So they're all so they're all scared. Even Democrats are scared. Like, I think people are afraid to single themselves out. Yeah. That's good.

[00:56:30] I still don't quite understand what that has to do with this stuff with. I think it's great. It's great. It's all true. No, no, no. I see. I want to understand. No, I see Wendy's point, though. Sometimes people will go along with whatever's in front of them because it's what everyone else is doing. Yeah, they're afraid for their lives. That's why Nick is pretending. Oh, yeah. Lawrence is pretending. You know, they say, like, we're going to put Lawrence on the wall.

[00:57:00] Well, he's not the first one to do that. They all have to go along with it. And, you know, one interesting thing about the way this is set up, The Handmaid's Tale, there's no central leader figure. We don't even know if there's like a president, right? It's a council. And I was I think the reason for that is.

[00:57:21] They want to point out that it's a bunch of men, not one personality, but it's just men who want to have power over women and other men. You know, that's kind of the point of it. But it does feel weird that there's not one central figure that everyone's afraid of. It's just this council of jockeying for power, I guess, you know. It's probably not. Very realistic.

[00:57:50] But it's it kind of reminds me of Russia, because in Russia, I don't know for sure. But it seems like Putin is very isolated and the people around him are the people that really hold the power. His committee. I think Trump is a bit like that, too.

[00:58:12] I think what he does is he gets people around him who have a fire for something and he thinks can be effective for whatever it is. And it doesn't really matter that much to him what it is. And he's good at getting attention on it and then claiming responsibility for it if it goes well. Yeah, credit. But like even when I think John Kasich was running against him, he said, why don't you be my VP? We can do your agenda. And, you know, he didn't say this part, but I'll take credit for it.

[00:58:39] But so then but then when things aren't going well, then like he'll say, oh, I didn't know that much about it. Trump will, you know. But it's like he's not even really he's kind of picking and choosing which of these ideas around it. But the whole Project 2025 thing, I don't think he had much to do with the formation of that. He was just like, yeah, I'll attach myself to that. Seems like that'll give me the most power.

[00:59:04] And then the only thing that's important to him is not what the people around him are doing, but that they're loyal to him above all that he has to dominate. He doesn't care about abortion or right. Or trans. He doesn't care about any of that stuff. Nope. Yeah. Yeah. He'll take whatever side will just get him the most power. That was it. All right. Jason. OK. Sneaking into Jezebel's. Jezebel's.

[00:59:34] So June and Moira, they're headed there for recon and to clue in Janine so she can get the others ready for when Mayday comes in a week to storm the place. Right. That's what that's their mission. Yes. And seeing June and Moira dressed as Martha's gave me a kind of a PTSD like feeling like, oh, no, I don't want to go back there again. You know, and Luke in his Gilead clothes.

[01:00:02] It's just so disheartening to see that. It gives me that feeling of the early seasons of the show. I love seeing Luke kiss June before they go in, but I hope that doesn't end up being a goodbye forever kiss. I thought that. Yeah. I'm worried about that, too, because I again. I thought that they really lingered on that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm bracing myself. It could be. For the hot break that's coming. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:00:33] It seems kind of easy to get into Gilead. Somehow they hitch a ride with a supply truck or impersonate a supply truck. Maybe think of Star Wars. It's an older code, but it checks out, sir. These are not the droids you're looking for. Do you think someone's going to come out and magically like a racer? These are not the Marthas you're looking for. In the trunk.

[01:00:58] They find Janine and she's singing What's Up by Four Non Blondes. Yep. And I pray, oh my God, do I pray for revolution, which is very on the nose, but I loved it because I love that song. Yeah. I actually copied down some of the lyrics if you want me to read it because I thought it was so relevant. Mm-hmm. I realized quickly when I knew I should that the world was made up of this brotherhood

[01:01:28] of man for whatever that means. And so I cry sometimes when I'm lying in bed just to get it all out what's in my head. And I am feeling a little peculiar. And I try, oh my God, do I try. I try all the time in this institution. And I pray, oh my God, do I pray. I pray every single day for a revolution. And so I wake in the morning and I step outside and I take a deep breath and I get real high

[01:01:55] and I scream from the top of my lungs, what's going on? What's going on? It was great. I loved it. So then we see Commander Bell being a total piece of shit and tells June to clean up the spilled champagne and says, there you go, good girl. And I'm just like, you're dead. You're going to die now because you said that. It might be right now. I mean, June was having to hold back in that moment too.

[01:02:25] And then Lawrence comes in and saves her. And he seemed to suspect it was June or felt a vibe or something. And that reminds me of Star Wars 2. I feel a presence. There's a presence or what appears something in the force. Oh my God. That's it. That's it. Lawrence is a Jedi. Yeah. And then they let, so then they let Janine know what's up and exchange info.

[01:02:54] We already talked about that part. Then the guardian comes in, assaults them. He was pretty stupid, right? Cause Moira said, fuck off. And they kind of made a move towards him. And so he knew that they weren't having it, but he still proceeded to turn his back on June. So he could sexually assault Moira. And, and, uh, that was a mistake on his part, but I'm glad.

[01:03:19] And so Janine had given June letters from other women to give to loved ones. And I was like, uh, maybe you should have held onto those. Cause you're hopefully going to be out of here in a week anyway. And the guardian made them put the letters and letters in this map in the safe, which you'd think that's going to be a story point that those will come back somehow maybe to haunt them. I don't know. Maybe not, but it seemed like a weird thing to have happen. Yeah.

[01:03:49] Then Moira and June are burning the guards body and Luke comes in, in the truck to pick up empty barrels. So was that supposed to be filled with June and Moira or I didn't quite understand what Luke was doing there. Was he there to smuggle them back out? I think they were hoping that there was nobody there and they could just jump in the truck and go. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. I'm overthinking it. Um, so then, but then they lock things down.

[01:04:18] Because the guards missing and they won't let him in. And she sees the guard hitting Luke. And I mean, I'm just recounting the plot here, but, uh, it was pretty thrilling. And then they, the, the way they stopped Lawrence, she just jumps right out. I guess Moira had never met Lawrence cause she didn't know anything about him. No, but June and Lawrence, as we know, have quite a history together. She was right. I think June was very smart to do that. Absolutely. Yeah. He, she was lucky that he came along cause it didn't look like they were going to be able to get out of there. No.

[01:04:49] So, and I, like I said, maybe, um, maybe Lawrence just learning that everybody was against new Bethlehem influenced him going ahead and taking June. I don't know. He's had a weird day though. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. You find out people are plotting against you and then now the enemy number one is in your trunk. It's not good. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[01:05:17] And honestly, June could rip. I think she could help him in this instance. If he lets her. Yeah. She knows stuff. I mean, she knows about the bombs. She knows that they could blow the place up and Lawrence's biggest problem could be taken away. Out of it. That's true. Yeah. Maybe he'll, he'll want that. All these guys that were just plotting against him could be destroyed. So maybe he'll help or something.

[01:05:47] And Daphne will cheer all the way from there. There's always more commanders though. That's the problem. Yeah. Yeah. But this is a big chunk of bad ones. I mean, of the worst, or maybe there's some that's worse. I don't want to think that anyone can be worse than them. When they went to DC and you saw the handmaids with the things strapped to their faces, like God damn. Horrible. I think it's never going to get worse. Yep. That's all I had.

[01:06:16] All right. I don't have any other main points because I feel like we've touched on everything. So what I have left are like notes. I wanted to point out that Natalia Light also directed this episode. She directed last week's episode and she did two episodes from last season. I've really appreciated the directing in these first few episodes. I think it's been spot on. I think just everything is coming together.

[01:06:45] Um, and that, you know, just, I think solidifies a season when you get all the right people in the right roles. Um, so I, that I think is, um, is, yeah, that's everything I have. I don't really have anything else. So Wendy. The only thing I really had was a small point about my appreciation for the beauty of the cinematography.

[01:07:15] The opening scene starts with a bit of a montage with them all getting ready for their offensive that they're planning. And even though June and Moira are wearing drab, dowdy Martha clothes, it's just the sunlight is streaming through every scene. And there's, you know, um, like dandelion floating throughout the air.

[01:07:42] And even when we switch to Nick's, we switched to Nick and Wharton, um, which is a darker, it's a darker scene because it's Nick's office and it's Gilead. But the, the sunlight is streaming through the windows and I, I just really appreciate their attention to detail. And this series is so beautiful. I think we missed that a little bit cause we're watching screeners. So I have to go back and, and watch it in its full. Yeah.

[01:08:12] The screeners are low resolution. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That, this shows always, that's been a big strength for the show from the beginning and I'm glad. And their use of light. Yeah. Especially. Like Gilead scenes are always darker, you know? And they've, they've used that with new, new Bethlehem is always really bright and sunny and watery. And there's a contrast.

[01:08:38] You can almost tell where you are based on the lighting. Aesthetic. Yep. Yeah. You definitely can. Jason, do you have a note? Just one note. Listening to you guys talk about Naomi on the last episode and how that scene where she tried to seduce Lawrence and he was not into it at all.

[01:09:03] It made me think she's sort of like Sydney Sweeney's character was with Nick, you know, wanting to be the, do what we're supposed to do and be the typical wife. And Nick is sort of like Lawrence. Like, no, I'm not, I'm not going to play the game if I'm not really feeling it. Yeah. But Naomi could be a lot more trouble than her character was.

[01:09:28] Well, I think that Lawrence, and I think I said this last week is just so still in love with Eleanor that he's just not, she was his true love and he's not gonna. And Naomi's nowhere near that. No. Not even in the ball. No. I also think though that Naomi is gonna just enjoy her new jewelry from France. Yes.

[01:09:58] And I feel like she's not gonna cause trouble. I just think the only reason why I'm not sure about what you just said is because they bothered to put that scene in there. Yeah. So maybe it'll lead to something. It's gonna mean something. Yeah. They are funny together. They are. They are. Absolutely. Yeah. I like to watch them. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[01:11:20] And we're back with some listener feedback. I'll go ahead and take this first one, which is from Becky Anderson. This was another great episode. They are really bringing it. I'm fascinated with the goings on in New Bethlehem slash Gilead. Commander Lawrence continues to be such an intriguing character. Him reading to Angela for Janine. Can that woman please get a happy ending? She's already endured so much. And then that disgusting commander treating her the way that he did was horrible.

[01:11:50] He makes my skin crawl. May we get all the satisfaction of him suffering a Fred-esque ending. Oh, maybe. That'd be great. I cannot wait to hear what Aunt Lydia has to say to Serena. Rita getting to see her sister again was so beautiful and sweet. If Rita stays in New Bethlehem, I hope she'll work for Nick and Rose and help with their baby. Cool getting to see the rebel world.

[01:12:15] I think June discovered an even deeper connection with Luke after their talk. I'm glad they're going to do this together. I'm so pleased with the four episodes we've gotten so far, and I'm super excited to see how it all plays out. Hashtag justice for Janine. Yeah, I pretty much agree with all that, especially the thing about the Fred-esque ending. That would be good. I'm sure it's happening.

[01:12:45] Kate M says, Agreed. So we have a voicemail from Madeline. Well, okay, you guys, like, you guys.

[01:13:10] You know that feeling where you, like, kind of just got hit by a truck, and your boyfriend also just got in trouble for punching a guy, well, like, to death. And your other boyfriend just got somebody pregnant, but they go to a different school, so, like, whatever.

[01:13:33] But now you're on a train, and you just found out that there's this other girl on the train that you kind of have, like, well, like, sort of a huge beef with. And you also just found out that, like, you're going to be on the same train with this girl, and it's going all the way to Alaska. Well, June does, because it's 2025. The Handmaid's Tale is back.

[01:14:02] We're on the rag, and we need diapers. It's strange how easy it is to feel comfortable slipping right back into this aesthetically beautiful woman-hating dystopia. I think it is one of those things where if there's messed up stuff happening in your immediate environment, being able to experience parts of that and evaluate parts of that in something that is contained,

[01:14:30] that you can turn off and put away, that is also thoughtfully crafted, can be very therapeutic. So I am really happy to see Handmaid's Tale, like, to have Handmaid's Tale back in my environment right now. I don't know what to expect from this season. I did like the first three episodes. I don't want to try to talk about too many things because it would take too long. So just picking one thing to think about.

[01:14:58] When Serena approached the farm, they asked her name. She said Rachel. I thought it was interesting that she used that name. I'm sure other people must have noticed that as well. I don't think that that necessarily says anything directly about where her head is at or is not. But I am curious to hear other people's takes on that. And other than that, I am just looking forward to the rest of the season. And I will see you next episode.

[01:15:27] This is Red Leader Understudy standing by. I don't know the significance of the name Rachel. Is that a biblical name or something? It is. It is. It is. My niece's name is Rachel. Yeah. It is. It is a biblical name. I think she probably had fake papers that she was traveling under with the name Rachel. But I don't know if she chose that name or somebody chose it for her.

[01:15:55] Well, I wish Red Leader Understudy would have given us the context. Because I bet you there's something about that character in the Bible that Serena feels some kind of simpatico with or something. Well, given what I've just read on Wikipedia, I don't think so. But maybe. What does it say?

[01:16:18] It says, Rachel was a biblical figure, the favorite of Jacob's two wives and the mother of Joseph and Benjamin, two of the twelve progenitors of the tribes of Israel. Rachel's father was Laban. Her older sister was Leah. Jacob's first wife. Leah, Jacob's first wife. And her aunt Rebecca was Jacob's mother.

[01:16:41] Well, I think Jacob is the figure in the Bible that had the handmaid that the whole handmaid thing is based on because it's the sons of Jacob, right? Then that. Ding, ding, ding. Ding, ding, ding. That's probably why. Yeah. I guess so. I didn't know we could have more than one spouse. I didn't either. I didn't either. What she was saying about it being OK to be back in this world or maybe I'm maybe I wasn't representing that right. But anyway, that it was contained.

[01:17:10] And yeah, like I was wondering now that we're in this sort of authoritarian regime that it would feel bad to watch this. But to me, it's feeling good. It's feeling like, look, look at this show that's supposed to be a fantasy. This is coming true in our country. It feels kind of cathartic for me to have that to point to. So that's how I'm feeling right now. Anyway, I don't know. What about you guys?

[01:17:39] I feel like it's mixed. I feel a little bit of that. But then I do feel anxiety. Yeah. Do you want to stop doing the handmaid's tale? No, I'm committed. I'm sorry. I wouldn't do it if I didn't want to do it. But I do think it's a warning and it's a message.

[01:18:06] But it's so frustrating to me that so many people don't see it. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I go back to Margaret Atwood putting things in her book or saying that everything in the book was based on something that had actually happened in the world. And I think people don't want to believe it if it, as we talked about earlier, because it's not something that it isn't something that happened to them personally. Yep. Yep.

[01:18:35] We just don't learn. Oh, I've learned, Wendy. I know, but I mean, we as a collective we. No. I had a friend who wrote a book and the title of his book was We Learn Nothing. And it's not about politics at all. But I keep thinking about that. Yeah. It's a great book if anybody's interested. His name is Tim Kreider. We need, but we need more people to get it.

[01:19:04] And that's one reason why I felt like talking, well, why we felt like talking about it on the podcast. Yeah. We need people to, because right now we don't have power in government, but we have our voices as corny as that sounds. That's what we've got. Yeah. Yep. It's true. And our money. We can donate towards important things.

[01:19:31] I donated this week to Wikipedia, which is, you know, they don't want facts and figures out there. Yeah. Yeah, I donate to them sometimes pretty regularly. Jenny Ryan says, I have a hard time believing that June's mother had no idea what June was up to. She was well known both inside Gilead and by the Americans and Canadians. Surely tales of her heroics and resistance would have reached her mother. Was she?

[01:20:01] I don't even remember. I guess. June. Jenny says it then. No, I mean, I know she was known by the people. But again, political figures. June's mom has not been out of Gilead that long. So. Six months. She's only been free for six months. Yeah. And they made it seem like where she was at was pretty isolated and that there it wasn't easy to get news. But I agree. I agree with Jenny.

[01:20:28] I kind of thought the same thing, but I feel like it's one of those things you have to just believe. Yeah. I just. Yeah. I'm probably just forgetting big plot points. But was it always like was June's face? Yeah. I guess when. Was it. Was her face shown and her name given out? No. Publicly.

[01:20:50] But with modern technology, I am positive there would be a database of survivors and missing people and all of that would be. Yeah. You know. They had a. Include information about everything June was up to. I would think so. Or at least that she was out and alive. Like I would think there would be a survivor database for people that were out and people that were still missing. I mean, she can only talk on the phone once a week. So. Right. Yeah.

[01:21:17] It seemed like they they weren't well equipped. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's what we were supposed to believe. And she even said, like, this started out as a makeshift and it just stayed. Yeah. And it was really just a bunch of trailers. Yeah. May Almardini says, I wanted Serena to redeem herself, but she can't. She's a terrible person. I think I need a mental health break after watching three episodes.

[01:21:44] I was literally sobbing at the end of the first one. Also, I think Nick is going to die. They left each other with hope. He's done. That is how I feel. What I felt too. Yeah. There's too many of those like. Potentially. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not good. Yeah. I'm on the edge of my seat now. Five more episodes. I'm scared. Yeah. Ty Miller says, been listening for years.

[01:22:14] I'm glad y'all are back. My thoughts are Serena focused as she might be my favorite character. She can make you sympathize and admire her in one sentence and then make you hate her and wish the worst from her in the next sentence. She is by far the most compelling. Commander Lawrence being a close second where you will never know her true motives. In Train, the show depicted Serena in all her glory.

[01:22:40] She was able to get a train card dedicated to mothers showing how she is a force and for women, but then spits herself righteous venom at other women on why Gilead came to be. Same women. Yep. Yep. She is a Batman villain. Two-Face-like. You never know what you are going to get. She is literally the best and the worst. I think that was amazing, Ty. And I feel the same way. That's great.

[01:23:09] Absolutely. Tam from Perth, Australia says, hi, everyone. Well, this was so beautiful. The music, the cinematography, the voice of Bradley Whitford softening and reading one of my daughter's favorite books. I always knew he was a softie. Each time I see that book and The Handmaid's Tale and the stacks of secondhand bookstores, I wander through, I have to buy it just in case. That's nice. That was nicely said.

[01:23:37] To come to the almost conclusion of this amazing show and only be slightly triggered or elevated, as I prefer to say, is so wonderful. I love the love in this episode, the rage love they all have for each other that tangles with their deep sadness and anger. It comes out through the screen from all these characters now. The actors are so honed to the smirks and kisses and giggles in the street at the thought of dancing for no reason other than it's fucking Josh Charles.

[01:24:06] And what girl who fell in love with him in Dead Poets Society doesn't have me a pang of jealousy and want to be Serena for one moment? I just want to say, Tam, that is when I learned that that was the cute, adorable boy from Dead Poets Society. I did not know it until then. Until you read her message here. When I was prepping the feedback last night. I'd forgotten he was in that too.

[01:24:33] Daphne and Jason, it was like, I learned today that that person was in here. Yes. She says, it's just so good. I'm so in love with it. And I don't care that it will break my heart because it's going to show strength, love and resilience. That's a nice way to think about it. I'll sign off with apologies for this practically a journal entry, but I don't care because I know I'm not alone in feeling these things. Onward and upward to the slaying of commanders who deserve it. Much love and thanks for the company.

[01:25:03] That was great, Tam. Yes. Well, TV Coupon Talk says, I was worried I wouldn't remember anything, but these episodes felt very accessible and perfect. I want a happy ending for everyone. Yeah. Except for Commander Bell. Yeah. Well, we'll be a happy ending. We'll be happy. Yeah. Right. That's the important thing.

[01:25:29] Mariah Mueller says, I was getting annoyed with the June Nick stuff because I am Team Luke all the way. Yay. But I love their conversation at the end of the last episode. They have so much trauma to heal, but they can't even start until they get Hannah back. I just really hope June can let go of Nick when he is no longer needed. I have zero sympathy for Nick. He has been complacent in so much abuse. Hear, hear. That's pretty much how I feel. Yeah.

[01:25:58] I do get the chemistry between them, though. Yeah. And I do think Nick's hot. Oh, he's dull. I'm just kidding. But yeah, I get the chemistry for sure. And as we've talked about, they have this shared trauma that bonds them in a way that June doesn't quite have with Luke. Jill Peterson Mortimer says, I've enjoyed the four episodes so far. It's been slower paced than expected, which is actually kind of nice. That's exactly how I felt.

[01:26:26] But I don't know how they're going to wrap up the whole show in just six episodes. Well, it's really ramping up now. Yeah, it is. Lynn Cole Bevel says, I like the episodes. And as usual, I'm concerned for June's safety. We're all concerned for June's safety, except I'm not sure June's concerned for her safety. Jess Grabalo says, prediction. Janine is going to die in the Jezebels attack. Yeah, maybe.

[01:26:59] Yeah, I would be surprised. And Hilly and Hilly Dillon respond. She responded to that saying, definitely could see this happening, fueling the rebellion beyond even what was already planned. And she, wait, is that supposed to say Holly? Because now it says Holly continues to say. I'm not sure. And I'll just say she. And she continues to say, I knew bloodbath was coming to Jezebels after episode three. And Aunt Lydia's disgust with a place.

[01:27:26] At first, I was sick of June trying to step in again on the plans when she was trying to protect Moira. But by the end with her and Luke's talk, I was back to liking June. You go back and forth on her, too. Somebody was saying with Serena. And in the series, as it goes on along, I've had my moments with her, too. But she's a hero, for sure. Anyway, it was nice to see a sweeter side of Lawrence with Janine and Angela instead of his usual quips and quirks. Yeah.

[01:27:54] I do like his quips and quirks, though. Yeah. I have to say. They've been very entertaining. Absolutely. But I agree. It's nice to see just a little straight up heart. Yeah. Well, that brings us to our Mayday briefing segment. Okay.

[01:28:14] So you guys talked last time about this guy, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who got ripped out of his house and taken to an El Salvadoran prison for terrorists. And there's been some development since the last episode. And I just think it's so important that I want to go over it again and talk about what's happened since. So just to remind you, he came here in 2011 when he was 16 years old.

[01:28:42] He was seeking asylum because he and his family were threatened by gangs in El Salvador. And then in 2019, eight years later, an immigration judge granted him, quote, withholding of removal status because of the danger he faced if he were to go back there. So that meant he could live and work legally in the U.S. And. He when he was deported, he was living in Maryland with his wife and his children, all American citizens.

[01:29:11] He was complying with annual check ins with ice. But on March 12th of this year, ice officials stopped his car, told him that his immigration status had changed. Wait until his wife got there to take custody of their son and then took him into custody. His wife said that ice called her after detaining him and told her, quote, she had 10 minutes to pick up her son before he was turned over to child protective services.

[01:29:40] Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ. On March 15th, the Trump administration sent three plane loads of Salvadoran and Venezuelan deportees, including Abrego Garcia, to the Terrorism Confinement Center or CICOT in El Salvador, alleging that all these people were members of criminal organizations. But Bloomberg estimated that 90 percent of them had no U.S. criminal record.

[01:30:09] This play CICOT, Judge Paula, I don't know how to say her name, Zenas, described it as one of the most notoriously inhumane and dangerous prisons in the world that by design deprives its detainees of adequate food, water and shelter, fosters routine violence. And it places Abrego Garcia with the people that the judge had said he shouldn't go back, his persecutors.

[01:30:34] I've read the lights are never turned off in this place and inmates are never released. Justice Minister Gustavo Villatoro of El Salvador has explicitly stated, quote, we will make sure none of those who enter CICOT will ever leave on foot, meaning they'll only exit through by dying. Justice Patricia Guerrero, Jr.: Our taxpayer money is going to that prison.

[01:31:01] Justice Patricia Guerrero, Jr.: Yeah, we're paying, I think it's six million dollars right now that we are paying for that, you and me. Justice Patricia Guerrero, Jr.: Yep. Justice Patricia Guerrero, Jr.: Unless you're like Trump and you don't pay any taxes. So later the U.S. government acknowledged that this guy was, quote, removed to El Salvador because of an administrative error. Justice Patricia Guerrero, Jr.: And so when you guys podcasted last, the Supreme Court had ruled that the U.S. was required to facilitate Abrego Garcia's release. That was the words.

[01:31:30] Justice Patricia Guerrero, Jr.: Yes. Justice Patricia Guerrero, Jr.: And that came an hour before we were recording, like it had just come down. Justice Patricia Guerrero, Jr.: And you were happy about it, and so was I. But the Trump administration interpreted that to mean, well, they said facilitate his release. So that means if he comes back to the country, we will let him in. Justice Patricia Guerrero, Jr.: And that's it. Justice Patricia Guerrero, Jr.: But of course that's not what that meant. Justice Patricia Guerrero, Jr.: No. Justice Patricia Guerrero, Jr.: It meant try to get him out. But no, they said, okay, if he comes back, we'll facilitating it by letting him in.

[01:31:59] Then the president of El Salvador, Nayib Bukele, well, he was with Trump in D.C. when Trump actually said that. He was there to talk about expanding cooperation on immigration enforcement, including funding for this mega prison. And when asked by a reporter about bringing this guy back to the U.S., Bukele said, the question is preposterous. How can I smuggle a terrorist into the United States? Well, we just said if he comes back, we will let him in.

[01:32:30] Justice Patricia Guerrero, Jr.: Yeah. Justice Patricia Guerrero, Jr.: There's zero evidence. There's no evidence. I mean, the guy that we just said, Trump just said about 30 seconds before, yeah, we'll let him in if he comes back. And he goes, it's preposterous question. How can I smuggle a terrorist into the... So the Supreme Court had ruled they had to facilitate his return.

[01:32:59] But the lower court had a directive to both facilitate and effectuate his return. And so they asked the court, the Supreme Court asked the lower court to clarify what it meant by effectuate. The lower court amended its order, saying, telling the administration to, quote, take all available steps to facilitate the return of a Bregar Garcia to the United States as soon as possible. The Trump administration tried to appeal this order. I'm like, what the fuck, man?

[01:33:26] You admitted that this guy was sent there by mistake, but you're fighting back when you're told you need to get him out. Right, because if they don't want to be stopped on anything, if they're stopped on this, they can be stopped on other things. Yeah, they want to be able to send people to this foreign prison and then be able to say, oh, well, there's nothing we can do to get him back because they want to be able to keep doing that. And they probably don't want him talking about what it's like to be there. But it's just stupid.

[01:33:54] Trump always like, oh, I can't release my taxes because I'm being audited. It's bullshit. You know, it's all bullshit. So the Trump administration's appeal was denied. The appellate court, led by a judge appointed by Ronald Reagan, said the government is asserting a right to stash away residents of this country in foreign prisons without the semblance of due process. That is the foundation of our constitutional order. Further, it claims in essence that because it has rid itself of custody, that there is nothing that can be done.

[01:34:24] This should be shocking, not only to judges, but to the intuitive sense of liberty that Americans far removed from courthouses still hold dear. After saying that, the Trump administration is not cooperating with the judge's order. They've asked for daily reports on progress. From what I read, they're getting late or incomplete reports, sometimes just saying nothing new to report today. There's no information in these reports about anything they're doing to try to bring a break or car see it back. They're not going to point. Yeah.

[01:34:53] And the ball is in Trump administration's court at this point. They're supposed to be showing evidence or trying to get him back, but there's no deadline. And so it's up to the court to apply any remedies, which I read would be contempt proceedings and further legal action. That's like fines. It could be jail time for certain officials who aren't complying, but they probably wouldn't impose that.

[01:35:13] And if they do impose stuff like this, and then the question becomes because judge the judicial is supposed to be a check, but they don't have like soldiers or anybody going in. This is the test case. They're testing their boundaries. Yeah. Right. And their power. And if they do just say, no, we're not going to do what you say. We're not going to pay. You know, we're not going to do it. Then that's just going against the Constitution.

[01:35:42] And that's why I say it's up to us to scream about that. That's all we can do. Right. We have to say we don't accept this. No. No. And by the way, it doesn't matter if this guy is actually in a gang. It doesn't matter. From a post I saw online, it said it so well. Somebody called H Lee Justine said, if one single person in your country doesn't have a right to due process, then neither do you. Yeah. Quote. I don't care if gang members don't have a right to a trial.

[01:36:12] They don't deserve it. All right. You're a gang member. Then come with me. No, I'm not. Prove it. Prove it without due process. Do you see? Do you see the dilemma here? That's the thing. If you can send somebody away because they're in a gang and there's no evidence needed, then you can say anyone's in a gang and send them to a prison. They could send us because we're doing this podcast. This is what they did to in Nazi Germany. They would say, oh, they're half Jewish, regardless of any evidence. Yeah.

[01:36:42] You know, not that that would be OK. But this is what they did in McCarthyism. Like, this is what we do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're calling him terrorists because they know that that's what will get people on their side upset and think, I don't want terrorists here. Yeah. But they can say anyone. They can say anyone's a terrorist. And this is no different than sending Emily off to the colonies because she was gay.

[01:37:11] It's the same exact kind of thing. And whether this if this guy is in a gang, he needs to come back here and get his due process and then get the punishment that's prescribed for whatever he did. He's been convicted of no crimes. But that's not the point. The point is about the due process. Yeah. And this country has quickly become unsafe for people who are not U.S. citizens, maybe unsafe for U.S. citizens as well. Yeah.

[01:37:37] And unsafe for people to visit, for tourists to come in. Well, like, where are we? During that meeting with the El Salvador president, Trump was overheard on a hot mic saying homegrowns are next. The homegrown. You got to build about five more places. It's not big enough. I watched a video. You could hear. I heard later. An interviewer asked about his desire to deport homegrown criminals. Trump said, I would love to do that. So it doesn't matter if you're a citizen or not.

[01:38:06] It's it's if we let this happen, then it's just going to be like the handmaid's tale. It's just it already is there. This is their test case. Once they get their way on this, they're going to try something bigger and on and on and on. Yep. And so, I mean, that's really alarming. Like, this is the most alarming thing that I've seen about all this. And there's a lot to be alarmed about. I mean, that's just my own personal take. But like I said, like, we have to keep pushing back.

[01:38:35] I mean, we have to have balance in our lives. You can't think about this all the time or you're just going to drive yourself nuts. But we also can't pretend it's not happening. So I would encourage people just to talk about it sometimes with people. And there's this great 12 minute YouTube video from The New York Times showing Ezra Klein talking about the details of everything I just said probably better than I said it. And it's called The Emergency is Here.

[01:39:01] And maybe you could send that out to people or post it like I did. You know, it's going to make people feel anxious. But we need to feel some anxiety right now because it's bad. Jason, I wondered if you were going to bring up that Senator Chris Van Hollen. Who went to see the guy. He went to see Kilmar Abrego Garcia. And I actually was able to meet with him. So at least there's that confirmation. Yeah.

[01:39:29] That he is indeed there. He's not dead. And he's not dead. Like he is there and he's still alive. I think they may have actually moved him to another facility, too. They're trying to do damage control because they had them in this nice place and he had his baseball cap on and the senator was there. And what I just heard the senator say is officials came over right before they started filming and put two margaritas down in front of them to make it look like it was all chill and everything.

[01:39:59] And he said, we didn't touch those. And you can tell because even though they left a little bit out of his drink to make it look like he'd been drinking it, their salt was still all the way around it. So you can tell that no one drank it. You know, that's like straight out of Vietnam for prisoners of war where we would go over there and they would they would show like a show about how great they treated them. Right. Yeah. It's just lies upon lies upon lies.

[01:40:27] Originally, when the senator went down, he was told he was not going to be able to meet with him at all. But somehow it was. I think that was a different senator, but yeah, yeah. I don't know. There were two senators that went down and the second one got to meet him. I'm grateful that they let Chris Van Hollen meet him like and and we can see that he is still alive because it is incredibly scary.

[01:40:55] It is, though, giving me a little hope that you have senators who are actually trying to do something. Yeah. They're at least going down and I agree. And putting attention on it, too. Yeah. Like not letting it people forget about what's going on. I call Andy Harris every day. Talk to him about it or talk to his staffer or his recording machine. Is he a house member? Yeah. Yeah. And all the rest are Democrats in Maryland.

[01:41:25] So he's my GOP that I call every day. Yeah. That's one thing. I mean, like I say, just speaking out is one of the things that we can do right now. And what a lot of Democratic lawmakers who have no power in Washington are doing right now is they're holding town halls in Republican strongholds where the Republican congresspeople are afraid to have them because they just get yelled at. So the Democrats are going in and having them and letting people air out their concerns. And I think that's a great idea.

[01:41:55] Right. There's a lot of press. Yeah. Yeah. Keeping the hot spotlight on the situation is so crucial right now, like not letting it die despite the anxiety that it fills you with when you read something or you see something because you really can't escape it. There's always something.

[01:42:16] But keeping that lens on it and not and doing it in an intelligent way, just making it, keeping it out there. And Trump's trying to squash all that. He's trying to make a case for criminal penalties against news organizations that criticize him. Yeah. Right. Right. You're you're you're not allowed to criticize his administration.

[01:42:46] That's how he would like it. It's un-American. Yeah. But that we're founded on that. Yeah. I think that's that's really been one of the most alarming things is it isn't about the country's agenda. It's become about one person's agenda, like his what he wants, the president's priorities, the president's agenda, the president's focus. And in all of our elected officials, we expect there are things that we expect of them.

[01:43:16] And this is not what we're seeing at all. And he has ripped our infrastructure apart. And the president is supposed to be. They're supposed to be the caretaker of our country for four years. That's all they get. They take an oath through that. Right. Yeah.

[01:43:36] And so let's say we have another fair election in four years and somebody else gets voted in. How much money is it going to take to unfuck this whole thing? Yeah. And, you know, I mean, these tariffs. Talk about waste. These tariffs are like just, you know, punching somebody in the nose, punching every country in the nose.

[01:44:06] Our friends who used to be our friends. And then there's a new guy. And it's like, yeah, but you guys punched us in the nose. Like they're going to they're going to go off and figure out how to get by without having to rely on the U.S. Like they used to. We're weakening ourselves by doing this. We are slapping our friends around like Trump can do that in business because there's always somebody new to do business with. But there's only one Canada. Right. Yeah. We need them.

[01:44:35] It's we're talking about generational. Generations are going to have to fix this. We're not going to see this fixed in our lifetime. We're not. Yeah. I mean, and we're talking about waste like this isn't the Trump world. You only get it for four years, although I don't think that's their plan. No, they keep saying he's going to have another term. I don't I don't think it's just another term. I think they're it's. Yeah. It's a dictatorship. Good.

[01:45:05] Yeah. Yeah. That he'll pass on down to his children or whatever. Steve Bannon is saying, yeah, you can bet that on whatever the date of that next election is that are swearing in date, Trump's going to be sworn in for a third term. Keep saying that. Wow. So that was another edition of it's all fucked. Thank you, everybody.

[01:45:34] You should know that we do have a private Facebook group called the Handmaid's Tale Mayday for any of you who would like a place to talk about Handmaid's Tale and a safe space to vent about the Trump administration. Give each other support and talk about what we can do to fight back and save our democracy. See, I've really enjoyed interacting with the new people that have come in over the last week. It's been great to be able to welcome them into the group.

[01:46:01] And yeah, so we'll have a link in the show notes if you'd like to join us over there. And there hasn't been a whole lot of chatter actually about the show in there, but I feel like that might start up with the turn it's taking now. I hope so. I want to get people talking. It was a lot of episodes in a week's time. It was four episodes. So I feel like people might be catching up. Yeah. And sometimes you can't watch them like back to back to back. You have to space it out. So agreed.

[01:46:32] You can definitely join us over there. All right. That's our show. Thanks for listening, everyone. Next up, Handmaid's Tale Season 6, Episode 6. Surprise. Surprise. Episode 6.

[01:47:02] How are we at Episode 6? What does that mean? Surprise. I don't know. Makes me mad. I hope it's Janine with a gun to Belle's head. Surprise. It could very well be. Surprise, Nick and June elope. Oh, God. Surprise, Naomi and Lawrence consummate their marriage. I don't know. Surprise, that's more of an April Fool's joke.

[01:47:30] If you want to write in or send us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com. And while you're there, be sure to check out our other shows. Last of Us. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Jason. So much I'd love to say about that, but I cannot. Just did you like without because we don't even want to give away what happened in the premiere in case people didn't watch it. But did you guys like it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I did.

[01:48:00] I thought it was fantastic. It's moving. That's all I'm going to say. It's moving. Moving quicker than I expected. Mm hmm. Well, that's another show that doesn't. It's it's not a lot of downtime in that show. And also our friends Greg and Veronica are doing Wheel of Time. I'm not caught up, but I did actually listen to part of the podcast. It's great. They're doing a great job. Yep. They're almost finished.

[01:48:30] I think the last one. Mm hmm. I'd already be up. All right. That's our show. Thanks for listening. Peace and love, everybody.