29: "Shattered" (S6E7)

[00:00:03] huhhhhh He's a commander in Gilead, he doesn't give a shit about the resistance, he doesn't want us to win. The only thing he ever cared about is you and because of that, you're gonna run

[00:00:28] around like he's some hero like he's this fucking savior that you've been pining for

[00:00:36] ever since you got back you think i don't see it fucking nazi how about that hey everybody

[00:01:19] welcome to our podcast i'm daphne and i'm wendy and i'm jason and this is the handmaid's tale podcast this week we're covering the handmaid's tale season six episode seven shattered shattered are you shattered i'm not shattered no i liked it no i thought it was great i mean the title scared me a lot so i guess i'm not as shattered as i could be i'm like everybody's

[00:01:45] dying well i thought they were i mean a lot of people died that's true they weren't characters that we yeah we didn't know them but it was pretty disturbing incredibly disturbing so let's kick it off with overall thoughts wendy what did you think i really like where the story's headed

[00:02:08] it feels like everything's coming to a head i feel like we have some serious action coming to us in the next couple episodes i'm scared but i am i'm loving uh i feel like we got honesty from a lot of characters this episode that we hadn't had before it it feels like the the veils are being lifted and

[00:02:34] we're seeing some truths and some veils are coming back over some people's heads it feels like yeah a little bit serena i'm curious i mean serena's got handmaids at her wedding yeah you know but uh no i mean i've i've felt like that this whole season that people are speaking truths that yeah it's taken them a while to be able to talk about i think serena might have just

[00:03:01] peeked through the veil but it might have always been there what about you jason i loved it i um yeah i think you're right we're heading for some action and it feels like that's going to happen right away like in the next episode which then makes me wonder oh well what will the two after that be will they stretch it out over a couple of episodes or will it go horrifically bad and then we'll need

[00:03:27] the next two episodes to clean up the mess you know i don't know but i'm very much excited to find out what happens but as far as just this episode went i really liked it in and of itself um i don't know i just kept my attention all the way through and i liked what happened it's kind of like you have your favorites and you have your hopes and some things that i like and hope for came true but i know some other people probably weren't as satisfied if you're a nick fan maybe

[00:03:56] i feel like we got a heel turn from nick where he realizes i've lost june so i've got nothing left so i'm just gonna go full commander and i'm not a fan of that but i guess we'll see what he's made of in the next couple episodes probably yeah i really like this episode a lot i've liked this season as a whole i think that it has really been full of these special character moments and this

[00:04:25] episode definitely had that any time that you get elizabeth moss on the screen and you get to have june connecting with commander lawrence it to me is magic the two of them together it's kind of like they're in a battle back and forth and i like it i like the chemistry that they have i'm i think it's

[00:04:52] one of the things i'm really gonna miss when this series ends the two of them just light up the screen together yeah it'd be cool if lawrence makes it into the testament somehow that'd be fantastic i'm just not sure what's going to happen i yeah right we don't know we got three episodes left after this and i can't believe it's almost over if you had told me like when we watched season one that this was

[00:05:21] how it was going to be ending i would not have liked that because as i said early on i think it kind of takes some power away from this situation it's meant to be a warning against not letting these kinds of things happen and so to have the catharsis of rebellion uh feels like just turning it into some kind of a thriller fan fiction thing but now that the world is the way it is i've already said this before on the podcast but now the world is the way it is and we need hope and we need

[00:05:50] examples uh then i like it more i feel like it fits the times better if i don't know if that makes any sense to you guys no i think it does i think we need those moments or things to remind us how powerful you can be as a person to fight back and yeah seeing this rebellion fire this little match of rebellion yeah is exciting and empowering and gives you a lot of hope so i definitely agree with that

[00:06:20] like i saw that penny said in chat she hasn't started watching yet because she doesn't know if she wants to given the state of things and i'm like no i think you should watch i think you'll like it and i think it's more real life in that i don't think we're gonna have a happier ever after ending where the death star gets blown up and all is good from there although we know even after the multiple death stars blew up everything was not good then we got shitty movies after that so

[00:06:50] um well that's a matter of opinion all right but um i i think it will be more like real life in that there will be wins and loses yeah yeah but wendy you did get to well back in this episode so i know you were happy about that i know a little bit yes yes so let's go ahead and kick it off with our

[00:07:13] points wendy what do you have up first for us i think the biggest piece of the episode was luke and june i feel like they've both been tiptoeing around a lot of different things since june got back to canada and i feel like they had honest conversations for the first time about certain topics especially nick

[00:07:40] but also i feel like the whole time june's been back she's been you know trying to pretend like she's fitting in and that she you know is is um just a regular person and she's not and that's not what she wants and i think it's taken her a little while to figure it out and and now i i think luke's on

[00:08:06] board and he realizes that that could never be who they were they were never going to go to alaska and live happily ever after that's not what their fate is and so they were really talking honestly and i loved hearing the things that luke said it and he said it with compassion but also like

[00:08:29] luke's feelings count too and and he was talking about his feelings and he said that basically he knew all this time that june was in love with nick and how much it hurt him but that he was obviously trying to do what was best for her and give her space and be understanding and i think june really

[00:08:54] needed to hear that to hear what it had done to him over time and i feel like their relationship is probably on more solid ground that it's been in yeah and i just loved them kind of coming back together i also feel like they're doing all this before they kill somebody off yeah he's a dead man

[00:09:16] right things are nice uh that's the end for luke i'm just 100 yeah no i don't know yeah but i did like it yeah me too i'm as luke has had a bigger and bigger role in this series i love i just love his i love the acting i love his character um team luke all the way

[00:09:42] well especially after last week right i've always been team luke i can separate the two things like i think it's possible to like nick and to like luke and to like nick with june and to like luke with june i think it's possible to have those things but for me it's it's luke all the way like i just i think he's such a good man and and a good father and a good husband and he wants so desperately to do

[00:10:09] what's right for everybody i like that what we've seen from luke in this episode and in prior episodes is that he isn't as afraid to speak up and let her know what he's thinking whereas i felt like before he was almost on eggshells at times not wanting to upset her because she'd been through so much and now yeah well he finally finally reached the boiling point yeah and i think it

[00:10:37] needed to happen but again june's also had conversations like this with moira this season things that needed to happen where it's not always obvious to her what is going on with other people in her life like they're stepping up to do things and she's just not she doesn't realize that other people are hurting too and you don't have to compare pain it's okay for everybody to be going

[00:11:06] through their own things and have painful things happening you don't have to decide who's got more pain and who should be more upset let's right instead look at okay let's do this together like let's work through our pain together not try to compare it and make it a contest yeah because luke's been through his own pain he has and that's come out this season i appreciate that him talking about

[00:11:34] feeling helpless i i think that it's valid and it needed to happen and june needed to know it and like you wendy i feel like in this episode they came together and put together those pieces to rebuild in their relationship through this whole episode i was looking for signs about whether their relationship was going

[00:12:00] to end because it just felt like you know we've said i think daphne you might have said maybe she doesn't need to be with either one of them and i thought yeah that that sounds like it could be a possibility and now you know sometimes when you break off one relationship it makes you see the rest of your life clearly you know and so when um june but and also june telling serena she's subjugating

[00:12:26] herself to a man you know a powerful man it made me think that maybe it was headed that way with june too she's like i should not be with any man right now so after she left nick and you know that dramatic parting and went to mayday headquarters and luke hugged her she seemed not quite receptive at first and then he says he knows what happened at jezebel's but not who tipped off the commanders

[00:12:54] and she says nick told them and he's like how did he know like he knows damn well how he found out and oh i i thought i could trust him and um you know honestly i kind of think in some small way what happened to these women is a little bit on june's shoulders because she didn't have to tell nick this um and luke is pissed because he also thinks that he's a commander in gilead he doesn't want us to

[00:13:20] win the only thing he ever cared about is you i think there's a lot of truth of that i'm not sure if nick didn't want them to win i think but i think at best he didn't care much either way as long as he came out of it okay you know and uh luke that's when luke said i i know you've been pining for her ever since you got back and yeah me too i was just so glad he finally expressed some anger about that and uh she's i don't know what to do don't be in love with a fucking nazi how about that

[00:13:48] and i'm like well you you can't help who you're in love with but you can try to see things clearly you can choose not to repeatedly cheat on your husband with the guy and i do consider kissing cheating and then then when later june apologized to him and he goes yeah well you've gone through so much that's his knee-jerk habit it's okay you've gone through a lot i'm just gonna be really understanding and absorb all of this and she's for the first time say no no no i don't want

[00:14:16] you to stay with me because you feel sorry for me what do you want i want you to be happy and i want you to be with someone that deserves you and i again i thought oh she's breaking up with him she's like but what really she was trying to do is do right by him let him go unless he's there for the right reasons not out of pity she was giving him his get out clause yeah and she doesn't want him unless he loves her she didn't even want him necessarily if it was just because of hannah

[00:14:41] he wants she wants it to be for love and i think that's really admirable and uh and i and i'm glad june did that but also it took nick doing something horrible to get her to that place but at least she's there now and so now that she is there and luke's saying i should want to leave you but i can't and you know i was very relieved that they both wanted each other still but also i feel protective of luke i'm like if she goes back and messes around with nick again luke i have no sympathy for you if you stay

[00:15:10] with her after that you know this should and i don't think that's going to happen my prediction is they'll be fine until he dies in the finale maybe i don't know maybe oh they're gonna live forever of course come on yeah i'm calling them uh luke and june 2.0 now because i feel like this is the first opportunity where things can actually really start over for them because nick seems to be

[00:15:36] completely out of the picture and luke was incredibly lenient and understanding about june and nick's relationship for so long because he kept chalking it up to this bond they have through this shared trauma um in gilead and now i think they they truly have a chance we'll see what happens in the next couple episodes but i feel like this is the opportunity for

[00:16:05] them to really um start over yeah i was actually surprised i i thought one of them was going to break it off but they didn't no they're at least for now they're still together yeah and i think that's that is what june wants yeah and and what luke wants i think they do want each other what's the

[00:16:32] poetic way to say your your heart is split in two you know she she loved two men and now she i'm sure still has a place of love for nick but she's like i can't forgive what you just did so then it becomes clear okay luke's the right one okay jason what's your first point nick

[00:16:56] good old nick jason's favorite character on the whole show uh so we pick up right where we left off and june staring at nick in the closet and that was intercut with the results of what he did all these women at jezebel's getting massacred and i kind of wondered if that was going through june's head that was kind of the idea that she suspected that was probably happening as she's living with what

[00:17:22] she just heard um nick says he didn't think wharton would do that do you guys trust that i i i don't see how he could not suspect it yeah yeah i think wharton definitely wanted jezebel's to be gone period i get that i don't think he would have thought twice because i still think there's something about wharton that we haven't seen yet we haven't seen his diabolical side that i feel is there but i

[00:17:52] mean just nick should know and i think nick does know that any commander is capable of anything like that absolutely and he's like the head commander of everything yeah and i was i was also trying to figure out because we didn't really think about this too deeply yet what what did nick tell wharton when wharton cornered him there and he's like you tell me the truth because uh you know you're gonna

[00:18:20] be on the wall if if you don't tell me the truth basically and would nick i'm sure nick didn't say oh well um i was getting some messages for my girlfriend no he probably said this information came to me that there's this plot afoot um but he probably didn't give up june yeah and so okay you found out from a little bird that there's going to be an attack on jezebel so why were you

[00:18:48] there again he was he was you know scoping it out uh yeah yeah and it's like checking it out seeing what's going on already had to make up a story but he couldn't make a better one than that you know then giving away that's what gets me like he already had the lie to wharton but he couldn't make up a better story um and anyway so then um she makes nick take her back to near maydays gets out of the car

[00:19:18] nick follows after her june you know you never cared for what i did unless it helped you i'm like yeah good move criticize her that should help just got a bunch of innocent women slaughtered so pointing out what you think are june's flaws is a great move and then he's like i killed those two guards to protect you you pretend like i'm not a commander or an eye when it suits you and i'm like yeah you're right about that she needs to stop forgetting that and then um she says you gave up those women to save

[00:19:45] yourself we all want to save ourselves we're fucking human that's what we do she's like you're just like them and you love me so what does that make you and i just heard her mother's voice in my head a nazi lover and to be fair i i do think it was a lot for anyone

[00:20:05] to expect nick to sacrifice his life yeah you know he was he was saving himself and and probably a little bit june so i do think those are unrealistic expectations but she shouldn't have had those expectations because he's a commander with a wife and who's having a

[00:20:31] child along the way and why can't she just see that his loyalties are yeah i mean you he people keep calling him a nazi and he kind of is because he's in this he's a part of this regime and whether he's fully uh playing the part with gusto because he believes in it or he's just trying to go along

[00:20:56] get along to go along or whatever it is go along to get along that's what a lot of nazis did i was just following orders you know and so so that's just what nick does and yes he has as morris said later he helped you he saved your life you wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for him so that's nick's saving grace he loves june and he would do anything for her including risk his life um and if uh i think if

[00:21:26] potentially if telling wharton would have meant june's life was at risk maybe nick would have sacrificed himself for that you know but it wasn't june it was people he didn't know or care about right he doesn't care about their cause no no he doesn't care about the cause he just cares about himself and who he's in love with and and uh what else was i going to say oh i do think they're setting it up so that nick because well then there was the whole thing with rita which i won't go into too

[00:21:54] much detail but she you know don't you want to be a man who does the right thing nick i don't get to have what i want i'm like oh poor you but um it's really shitty because rita came there thinking she and her sister could go back to canada now they're both stuck in gilead but i i think they're setting it up so that nick will make a maybe sacrifice himself to redeem himself i think that's i suspect that's where it's going i don't think they're going to leave it here with nick just being a total

[00:22:20] you know i don't know i think it's either going to go that way or he's really going to be the bad guy yeah because the way he was talking to rita was so callous it was yeah it was yeah there's still that thing we've always been wondering about that what part he played in the yeah what did he do did he deliver the bombs did he take the bombs in like did he i don't know it was all his idea

[00:22:47] really big a couple other quick things so moira points out that nick never gave june any reason not to trust her you know she's trying to make her feel better and she said if i had a commander at jezebel's i could fall in love with him too that was trying to help me i could fall in love with him too i mean it i'm serious if he was like hot enough i'm like well wendy keeps telling me you're gay

[00:23:08] but it doesn't sound like it uh just kidding wow yeah i'm just kidding i mean she did talk about the levels of hotness of angelina jolie rihanna was another one that's true yeah yeah that was great little scene yeah uh then lawrence um i love lawrence saying i always thought you were an idiot for trusting him well you trusted him too you put him in charge i was always selective and when i told him

[00:23:36] and i sure as hell never let his smoldering gaze obscure my better judgment yep that's so funny gosh i wish i'd written that only what two minutes of bradley whitford and elizabeth moss on the screen and i wanted more i really did it really leaves me wondering like does lawrence have any

[00:23:59] allies in gilead no i don't think so i don't know because we sort of think him and nick were allies but that's been a rocky for some level yeah yeah they were allied out of convenience i don't think he does because i mean we're going to talk about him but he's like ready for june like can you please kill all those commanders like you said you would you know uh before all the way up till now he's been more reluctant he'll help if you really give you know push him but now he's the one doing

[00:24:29] the pushing so he i think he's up against the wall so to speak yeah yep yeah that's all i had on nick all right well i am going to talk about janine the jezebel's massacre and where we're at because it's horrifying let's just say incredibly horrifying basically the guardians come in

[00:24:52] and hoard all of the women from jezebel's into the shower area and a last minute call comes through to save janine and the rest are completely gunned down right in front of her so you can imagine the trauma of that because she cared about those women they were her girls yeah she wanted them to

[00:25:16] get out it was something she really was focused on it was something she wanted to be a part of is helping them escape and for them to be murdered in front of her while she was helpless had to have been incredibly traumatic and i wondered if commander bell was going to be involved in saving her because

[00:25:42] i didn't think lydia had enough pull to be able to do that so i wasn't sure for a minute i was actually scared that janine was going to die in that um massacre i thought she was going to and when she was saved at the last second i was happy about it but then i also wondered who saved her and we find out

[00:26:08] that it's commander bell who has pulled her on his own accord into his home to be his handmaid and pulled her into a horror movie basically yes i mean at least at jezebel's she had moments to get away from him now she's going to be in there 24 7 and of course this ties into lydia because

[00:26:35] lydia visits jezebel's and sees all the blood and then picks up that picture that charlotte had drawn that lawrence had given to janine and you can tell that she's devastated she thinks janine is dead and then she finds out that commander bell is having a new handmaid which she seems completely surprised about because they're quote newlyweds but she seems completely relieved when she finds

[00:27:05] out that it's janine because i'm not sure how much lydia knows about commander bell and janine's relationship probably none of it she knows a little now no she does now i mean she saw the big bruise on janine's face she has to know and just like how much i i see people in the feedback getting frustrated with lydia's storyline because like how much do you need before you see the light

[00:27:35] yeah lydia finds out that janine is going to be at the bells so she gets the robes ready to take to her now lydia knows that janine does not want to be a handmaid lydia knows that janine wants nothing to do with that life and yet she's happy and i think part of it is just she's just relieved she's alive yeah but getting there and seeing it and then not being allowed to see janine and then seeing her in

[00:28:04] the window just for a second before the wife rips her away the wife rips her away from the wind that was it was the wife i thought it was it was the wife in a green dress that pulled her away from the window so they're both just giving her it fuck honestly i think the wife is one of the people that was at serena's bridal shower i think she was the one sitting to her left i think that was her

[00:28:32] with maybe yeah and that's another point to talk about if i missed that i thought it was bell both times no uh green dress ripped her away from the window but janine's got a big bruise on her face yeah and bell even said she's not going to be able to go to the wedding because she's not ready for public view and that they've been working on her adjustment all morning

[00:28:58] i hope she kills him if nothing else happens i bet you it will it i feel like she might be the one or it could be june because june knows where janine is now and the situation and has seen bell and i'm just ready for june face on that because my guess is that june will somehow facilitate it but

[00:29:23] janine will be the one to do it that'd be fantastic i i'm down for that yeah let's let's do it he's just all levels of evil and has to go so watching lydia react to all of this like go through the gamut of emotions and realizing that her joy at janine being alive may not be as wonderful as what she's thinking

[00:29:49] because janine's now in her own private hell that she can't escape from even for a minute like she's gonna be stuck there this is where she is now and lydia can't do anything to get her out of it she can't so this is the situation that she's in and yeah it's not a good one i was worried about

[00:30:13] that being where janine was going to end up after they saved her from the massacre and that's exactly where she is she's in a terrible place but everything this season has been about showing lydia realizing okay gilead is not a good place and i'm just like you had janine's eye removed because she

[00:30:36] talked back to you so it's it's hard to have any sympathy for lydia being all upset about these horrors happening when she was the perpetrator of just as bad and janine has told her like when she went to visit janine at jezebel's janine told her this is it what did you think was gonna happen like lydia's getting hit in the face with it over and over again now and i'm like when i you know i'm

[00:31:03] with the listeners when is it gonna sink in right this is what gilead really is it's not what you think it is the thing is that and i probably said this too many times but lydia is just framing everything in terms of the this extremist religious beliefs that she has and so with that in mind she can

[00:31:27] justify a lot of horrific behavior and then when there's horrific behavior that goes outside of those bounds then she can be horrified at it but i just i can't feel sorry for her unless she also realizes oh shit the stuff that i did was bad too yeah i had a role to play in this and i played my role and it

[00:31:50] resulted in this it really was you know what it it put these women in this situation where they were gunned down honestly she trained them as handmaids they were discarded after giving birth to their babies they were put in jezebels for retirement she had a role to play in it she played the role and now she would say oh i thought i thought they were gonna you know be revered in their

[00:32:15] retirement and it's like the stuff that you put them through was ritual rape for years i mean did she think there was like a shady brook home for retired handmaids somewhere that they were gonna be living in i mean even if they did even if they went to shady brook no it's still despicable exactly what janine did what lydia did what she put them through she yeah she has to own up to her part

[00:32:39] of it and sometimes people are just not willing to or not ready to until they're ready to have so much judgment for the characters on this show i think more than any show i've ever podcasted on yeah well it's like it's like revisiting world war ii like you know it's why couldn't somebody have stopped it there were so many places along the way

[00:33:04] that somebody could have stopped it and that's what we're going through right now like why doesn't somebody stop yes like look around look at the fucking extremeness of what is happening right in front of our eyes stop excusing it and uh just wait hand waving it away it's just a joke or

[00:33:27] dismissing it right yeah someone who has serious as a person who deals with anxiety and some things will happen and i will like voice that it is really disheartening to have my own fears dismissed by people as being oh that's not gonna happen or that's not real or you shouldn't be feeling that way and it's like yeah but i am well our government is disappearing people to a prison in

[00:33:54] el salvador right yeah so anyway that is was my point wendy we have back to you what do you got can i just scream how stupid serena is constantly over and over again she's just just like you said jason it's like she has learned nothing from her experiences nothing

[00:34:24] she's back on her pulpit telling the women of gilead what they should do what they should think she seems to just lap all of that up all of that attention and you could look at that and say well she's trying to make them have a different view of things but is she really um i just wanted to

[00:34:48] scream and shake her um i i did think it was interesting naomi and her seemed to be squaring off with each other which i thought was interesting um and i was thinking maybe what laney had said was right i i don't think naomi's gonna be the hero of the story but i do think she might have a bigger role

[00:35:10] in the story and yeah and i'm i'm here for it i want to see what happens um and serena and gabriel still continue with this like sickeningly sweet love story but he gives me the absolute creeps now

[00:35:29] and i think something is coming i think um his sweet boy smile hides a lot under there well he already ordered the massacre of a bunch of women that's yeah how could she be so stupid to marry the like i i guess we're saying he's the highest commander yeah it seems like it yeah it says she's going to be the queen

[00:35:55] of gilead so basically he's the president basically kind of in charge and she's going to marry him and what does she think is going to happen like i'm just it's boggling to me well she like she says the wives were so dismissive today they mocked my ideas they think new bethlehem is a folly well you're the future mrs wharton they will treat you with respect i'm like doesn't serena

[00:36:23] bristle at that even a little bit he just said pretty much overtly you don't deserve respect because of anything in and of yourself it's because you're married to me right yeah i mean maybe she's just so used to being treated that way but she goes right to seems their husbands don't support my ideas either so she's just trying to get him to help her and then when they're talking about planning the wedding and she shows just a little bit of disappointment that handmaids will be there but

[00:36:48] that's over in a flash as soon as he says it will be a show of unity with everyone represented and us on top and she can barely contain her glee at that because that's so much of what it's about for her and he's he's there with the love bombing and everything she really should she should at this point given everything she's smarter and better especially before this like you know she should be a better person but she's not and if she can't be better she should at least be smarter like that's true

[00:37:15] yeah i mean that's just put herself in the lion's jaws she put herself there and that bridal shower was the bridal shower from hell okay yeah i can't even it was so sterile to me the the niceties and the

[00:37:38] yeah i my husband says this well my husband says this and and serena say well what do you think and they can't it's like they have no thought they're offended that she asked it took me back to a movie oh my gosh uh the stepford wives oh yeah so much so the way that they were acting like

[00:37:59] yeah i i was what got me about it is when she's saying you know hey we have this fertility center and they're like well yeah but the present system works just fine and she's like well there's no handmaids in new bethlehem except as attendants and somebody's like well nobody will want those women

[00:38:22] around and that kind of behavior where it just gets into my skin where human beings are so tribal by nature and we like insulate ourselves from other people and then think of them as other and so they're not worthy of uh getting to know or of being compassionate about and at its extreme that can breed hate and it can lead to a lot of suffering violence and death and that's what's happening here right

[00:38:47] they just see these people as other and dirty and unworthy and the antidote to that kind of thing is to get to know people who aren't like you and that's what serena did with june and now she feels more compassionate about the handmaids just a hair but still but i mean she's still off base basically expecting them to be slaves but she's better than she was and um and that's similar to wharton ordering these women to be killed he's in the self-righteousness and views them as unworthy and expendable you know

[00:39:16] and it's just disgusting behavior their aunts under his shoe he yeah didn't doesn't think of whip about them no they're an obstacle that needs to be removed and that's it's horrible to think that someone views life that way i agree yeah all right jason what do you have for us uh a plan takes shape so yes

[00:39:47] after everything with nick and all the women at jezebel's nick uh june's just kind of over it i'm just gonna go to alaska but lawrence is like oh come on we gotta kill the commanders and um and she's not interested and he knows just how to get under her skin he's like well serena didn't give up and you ready to watch her in her big wedding gown and uh broadcast around the world with

[00:40:11] handmaids all around while you're back at a trailer park in alaska and what really got her i'm surprised you didn't mention hannah actually because it feels like that's missing from this whole equation of june yeah like what but um that's where they want the story to go but anyway she that she's like wait did you say handmaids and i i think the point of that was like okay serena is just right back where she was before so f her like i'm going in and when she she really turned on a dime

[00:40:37] there suddenly she's like leading the whole thing strategizing that was really fun to watch and it was crazy to see her lawrence and mark all play at mayday headquarters planning to kill a bunch of commanders at serena's wedding that's the brain trust right there that is the brain trust and it's such a great climax for the series this situation they've set up going into serena joy's wedding

[00:41:04] to cause mayhem so uh when they you know uh let's see they're going in as handmaids and smuggling in weapons and i just think our podcast art is such a great representation of that you know which kristin to give kristin credit came up with that oh that's awesome yeah she did i think she actually made it herself um so lawrence sends lydia away to pitch a fertility clinic but really is to get her

[00:41:31] away so this new aunt phoebe we've never seen her before right yeah we saw her only in this episode i think at the beginning where she goes in to talk to lydia about janine yeah right and she i i kind of wonder because so we didn't know at the time but she's like a rebel spy uh or sympathizer or whatever so um or operative and maybe this might be a stretch but maybe she deliberately sent lydia over to

[00:41:59] check on janine because she knew she knows lydia's wavering and wanted to confront her with it i don't know but um anyway so now she says all the handmaids are on board and so she's been coordinating all this on the inside and it sounds like everyone is on board except for lydia she's been downing gilead but she's not at the point where she would rebel like this so they have to send her away and and when phoebe smuggled in moira and june in the back of the trunk they weren't in their

[00:42:28] handmaid's tale garb yet which seems on a logical level kind of dumb to me they should probably be wearing it now so they can be inconspicuous but my guess is because this is such a visual show that they're going to make that a big moment seeing june back in that dress again since she's oh yeah haven't seen her like that in a while you know yeah i feel like it's going to be the march to rebellion maybe is when we're going to see it yeah and that's what they advertised the season with

[00:42:55] it was a picture of june back in the handmaid's tale outfit yeah and i wondered when they did that in the advertising if it was meant to showcase something new or if they took it from something else i wasn't really sure but i never remembered seeing her like that but you know it's been i thought it meant that oh maybe she'll be stuck as a handmaid again but no no not june they would

[00:43:23] never let her be a handmaid again no way good point good point i should have known so that sets us up for a really exciting rest of the season i love the way lawrence pushed all her buttons he knows which ones they are he really got what he wanted yeah he did and i mean even telling june where janine was yeah that she is alive and that she's with commander bell which

[00:43:52] june has met commander bell and knows what a despicable asshole he is and she's like yeah i'm gonna save her too yeah she pulls out all the stops he knows how to get through to her only he could and again all i could think is oh how i've missed them being on screen together it was so wonderful

[00:44:14] to see that yeah i agree so yeah i appreciated that okay i don't think i have anything left um we just talked about the plan let the revolution begin can june please have a plan for commander bell yes that would be great yeah yeah i think yeah i don't have anything else other than notes so i'll circle back to you wendy do you have another

[00:44:42] point i just wanted to talk about the ending scene with june and maura i really love that i mean this is another pairing that they've had a really complicated relationship since june's been back to canada and i loved seeing them come together again i feel like we're just setting ourselves up for

[00:45:04] pain you know and and we don't know where it's coming from but i i really loved seeing them together you can tell that they're actually really afraid and they showed that really well but also these two have been together and been through so much that they can immediately giggle about things

[00:45:30] even while they're afraid and maura asks her to say something inspiring so she says a prayer but at the end of it she says give give us the strength to kill those motherfuckers and maura says a fucking men and it's just so irreverent and powerful and i really just

[00:45:54] at the end of the episode i was ready i was like yeah yeah they played some music i forget what it was rock song yeah barracuda they played barracuda yep from heart yeah yeah amazing i thought it was perfect crazy road those two have been down it's great it's crazy to think that we're at the end

[00:46:18] that you know this show has been going on for six seasons and now we're coming into the final landing and i'm nervous but excited to see how it goes me too yep jason do you have any other notes nope all right i think yeah we have we've covered everything next week we'll have the wedding of the

[00:46:47] century yeah i feel like we should have correspondence on the ground to watch people as they walk in you know like this is a red carpet event like the oscars but uh yeah i heard there's gonna be pirate

[00:47:01] techniques oh yes it'll be a real show i'm sure you're right back with some listener feedback let's just go

[00:47:43] in the order of the way that we did our points so we'll start with wendy all right robin mark says petition to rename commander bell commander the land that's the i had to look up what that meant so look it up everyone please when i tell you my jaw dropped at that ending ugh when nick was giving it

[00:48:08] let's go to paris i love you i knew the guilt was guilting he could have gotten away with lying and saying he was going to step out on his wife and instead he chose the nuclear apocalyptic option and went for hey so there's this resistance plan brother you are so cooked it if looks could kill the one june is about to give him would knock him dead instantly i do think had he said he stepped out

[00:48:35] on his wife he would also be dead though yeah me too i don't think i know command of warden has any patience for that and also one thing we didn't talk about those moments in this episode where june was having to stand there across from nick and she couldn't react to what she had just heard yeah must have been so hard for her because i would have wanted to punch the crap out of him at

[00:49:02] that point i do think nick is clever enough to have come up with a lie that would at least buy him some time to go to paris you know but he didn't want to do that well he did buy himself some time to go to paris but she's not going to paris with him that's true he was already gonna go anyway so he he was gonna come up with a better lie he could have said lawrence sent me there to look up some information on

[00:49:30] something or i don't know something i think and and i wish we had seen that conversation but i understand why we don't but i think it's that warden knows i think warden knows a lot and i don't think so and i think nick he wouldn't have bought that he had to give him something real and i'm not defending nick at all no but i'm just saying if

[00:49:57] warden knew what nick was doing then nick would be on the wall already i mean maybe i mean i don't think he knows everything but i think he knows things yeah but i think nick had to give him something real or he wasn't going to get away with it but just my thoughts tracy hagg says nick had no choice he loves june but commander wharton was threatening him with the wall and let's be honest june has betrayed people in the past she turned on the handmaidens

[00:50:25] to save hannah in season four but you guys are right nick sucks i just said that last part matt king says we finally get to see episode one in the uk this saturday night so we're miles behind wow i realized that they are behind i saw i had seen a post about when it was actually going to start

[00:50:48] airing and i don't know why that would be it's it's that's a shame though yeah ben stone says arg nick as groucho mark said those are my principles and if you don't like them well i have others this character shits me to tears i like the growth of janine she was always portrayed as helpless and

[00:51:13] stupid she's great when she's standing up for herself and being articulate i had a bit of a chuckle regarding maura she's back in gilead getting a crash course on all the people that have helped june wait that's nick regarding meeting lawrence who's that can we trust him it's true maura must be thinking damn that girl has a lot of contacts okay i didn't get my shits going down moment this episode

[00:51:40] there was no earth shattering kaboom and everybody wasn't blown into smithereens but yes i was born a sweet summer child in australia the noose is tightening on so many characters the walls are moving in on our heroes inside the trash compactor and the dianoga is circling oh sorry wrong franchise

[00:52:04] you mentioned the death star earlier yep yeah it all comes back to star wars you know what you know i'm not a star wars person but i actually made a comment when we were recording run for your lives last night and i brought up star wars because something reminded me of skeleton crew i'll never live it down now becky anderson says if janine doesn't survive this season i will riot me too we're all gonna riot i have a lot i have a lot i'd like to say about aunt lydia but i won't

[00:52:31] because it would be spoilers for the testaments just know i have some thoughts lol i'm ready for the rebellion to begin sure nick messed up the original plan but i assume serena's wedding would provide an even better opportunity to take out the high commanders people were already thinking about that was did they they hinted that before people just guessing at it i think they're just guessing yeah i didn't even think about it i love lawrence and angela scenes precious i'm so anxious to see how everything

[00:52:58] plays out with so few episodes left us too yeah alma contraria says oof this was a really full episode i was on the edge of my seat the entire time and even though there was not a lot of action it had much needed character confrontations shots were being shot from everyone i also was just listening to the cast and i gotta say i agree with jason on all counts regarding both nick's and june's character

[00:53:24] i mean when they were making out all i could think was about luke and the fact that when we saw him last he was probably getting arrested and i get it june has love for both guys but come on i'm tired of june feeling like her struggles are the be all end all i just want to shake her and say girl you are not the only woman that has suffered and lost i guess self-centered attitude is what has turned me off

[00:53:50] on her plight as far back as season two i know mine is a very unpopular opinion on june but i just can't help it oh yes and i think june and nick are two sides of the same coin gosh there was so much more i wanted to say about this episode but it escapes me one last thing about serena i do not think she is stupid by any means given everything that she went through she still believes all that stuff she wrote

[00:54:15] about and lived her getting married to a powerful man will only make her powerful on the under because she learned her lesson with fred and these are just a few of my sense about this episode alma you should tell us what you really think yes she always does christina boyd taylor says holy crap is all i can say it was fantastic i have more to say but don't want to spoil anything yet just in

[00:54:42] case she posted on our handmade yeah our mayday group and so feel free to post in theirs yeah yeah when we put those comment posts up anyone don't read those if you haven't seen the episode yeah because that's the point to just be able to say whatever you want about that episode yeah so we want to hear what you have to say christina um tina marie groskrick says wow i was shocked by the ending

[00:55:06] i shouldn't be surprised but i was i'm now wondering where everyone is that was you know where no spoilers for me oh everybody's like on the spoiler thing looking forward to listening to your episode tomorrow i had to wait until the night to watch the episode i had to work in the office today uh what what is she talking about the ending was um was nick and june in the closet and she's wondering where everyone is oh

[00:55:30] she's talking about jezebel as well yeah yeah yeah heather sklarsky says definitely a surprise ending i think that's why it was called surprise yep deborah barry fineros says surprise but not a good surprise i agree not all surprises are good lisa moreno says okay i just finished the episode so everything is still fresh in my mind i knew that commander lawrence and june were going to collaborate

[00:55:57] to get those commanders out of the way i think everyone saw that coming when she called nick and he basically said to send moira on and her to wait for him it was a massive eye roll for me i knew she was going to end up at serena's when he told her to go over there if he doesn't come back out i don't think that june and serena's relationship will ever be a strong friendship there's too much trauma and damage for them to really be able to get past it at least for june that's an understatement she's

[00:56:21] now planning to bomb her wedding or something uh when when nick came over and he was fine i was so suspicious and when he said let's go to paris the second big eye roll hit me then to hear commander wharton say nick basically revealed the plans i wanted to kick him i think we all did the only positive thing about this reveal is that june is finally going to get to tell him to f off how is this going to affect commander lawrence though great episode can't wait to hear you guys

[00:56:49] talk about it thanks lisa lenetta ford says the ending was oh my golly wally commander wharton's temper is very interesting wondering if it'll make any future appearances serena is so delusional comparing her suffering to june's is mind-boggling now i have a like a dislike relationship with june but in my opinion she has serena beat sure serena has suffered in different ways but as a result of

[00:57:15] her complicity in helping to create gilead i'm glad rita let june know that she wasn't risking at all to help june i like commander lawrence playing chess with charlotte even though she's too young but she enjoys being around him lydia needs to wake up she and serena are in the same delulu club it's hard for me to predict what's going to happen but if everyone dies i want hannah

[00:57:41] to be able to get out of new bethlehem which i don't think she's in new bethlehem right now no he's in gilead proper yeah um rinaldi calixt says june should have listened to her mother when she said don't even bother with nick holly made good arguments about that but june as usual is stubborn serena is definitely cruel callous and complicit in horrific crimes but she's putting herself at

[00:58:11] risk to help june for no real benefit i still think serena needs to do life in prison but it would take years with an expert emotional intelligence therapist to train serena on how to think with emotional intelligence and really realize how horrific the things she has done truly are there's no way serena and june are going to be besties and there's no reason for them to be friends i realize this whole storyline between these two women is how sometimes you're forced

[00:58:40] to coexist with those who refuse to take full responsibility there could be co-workers of mine who if they watch the show would go june needs to cut serena some slack and i gotta work alongside them season six is the only season that serena joy character has captured my attention in a positive way artistically speaking again serena needs to do life maybe 15 if she gives the canadian

[00:59:08] government a lot of information about gilead nick wasn't a surprise to me because i always viewed him as selfish and focused on june and not the evil things gilead has done lawrence being schooled by and shown you are a better person than these commanders which means you'll be on the wall i also like june saying just because you're better than those commanders doesn't make you a good person i also love june challenging lydia to say give me my daughter back if you really want to help

[00:59:36] no her name is charlotte not angela she's my daughter you stole her from me you stole my daughter june has had it with the gilead sugar coating yeah she definitely has mm-hmm no blamer all right we have a voicemail from sam low hi guys it's sam you guys did such a great job you guys have been doing a great job especially in the last episode discussing this

[01:00:03] newest character twist with nick it's a hard thing like you guys were helping me to process why i was so kind of shocked but not surprised kind of thing or surprised but not shocked and like i didn't anticipate it i don't think we have enough information because nick has been an eye he has been hiding and lying for june since season one and his life has been in danger he still if he's able

[01:00:30] to he wiggles out of it and i think this season is showing him just sort of decompensating so like he's struggling with killing this kid even though he's killed many a person before and then he's you know scrambling like june let's run away from it all and it's like what is happening what are you running from like you've been working for a nazi regime this whole time like you're the sins of your past are coming up for you i don't know it seems like we're missing something here of

[01:00:59] like he's just spiraling and i don't see the reason why yet um it's like for me i don't know it's so funny i was i was listening like i mean for the past couple of you know podcast episodes and even last season i'm like whoa jason you really hate nick i don't know what you do but that's the impression i get i'm like whoa i mean he's not a great person but i was like whoa i would have

[01:01:26] thought someone who was a fan of serena joy would kind of get why people liked an unlikable character like serena joy helped create a genocide it's like yeah i get it i mean for me watching the show i don't think anyone's a good person i think maybe janine and the american guy who was helping them in canada and luke everyone else has had to make some really tough decisions most of the time because

[01:01:55] they have to um but like i don't think any of these are easy to say you're a good person i don't think gilead allows that it sort of puts you in extremes and positions that you would never think of before um so i just i thought that was so interesting but like yeah it's um yeah i i i this tracks with him i don't know him giving up mayday doesn't surprise me at all what does surprise me is that he betrayed

[01:02:21] june because he's had chances in the past and he's never done that so i don't understand like just say to him like hey i found out all the other commanders want to murder lawrence what do you think what side should we be on that like i was investigating that like he just heard about that from lawrence in june so you know i'm so confused on why he's spiraling what do you guys think yeah that's mark toello in case you were wondering yes wendy is number one mark toello yeah i think we covered that

[01:02:49] yeah okay kylie says ugh this episode was fantastic like jason said the confrontations between various people was so great and much needed lawrence and june june and serena wharton and nick and the best of all janine and aunt lydia i agree that was so good one of my favorite moments of the series would i be okay if serena had a redemption arc no would i be okay if lydia did yes and here's why aunt lydia is one

[01:03:18] of the very few who actually believe all this is in god's name she's so righteous she can't even see anything but righteousness she's not self-aware at all nothing she does is for her but for the written word she drank the kool-aid she basically lives as if in biblical times and believes it's the right way the first time she stepped into jezebel's or anywhere near jezebel's was this season she was stunned at the hypocrisy i kind of wondered if she knew about jezebel's already because she

[01:03:44] didn't seem necessarily like oh my god this place exists but i do wonder about that uh she thought everyone was as they seemed and that everyone was like her with every fiber of her being she thought she was helping to do the lord's work she does really sadistic stuff but they were pretty severe with their punishments in the bible she loses her temper when the girls aren't doing the lord's work she uses extreme punishments in her flashback when she had her friend's son taken away she didn't do

[01:04:11] it because she likes cruelty or suffering but in her mind and her heart of hearts she believed it was the best of the child and to her self-righteousness something about janine is different maybe because at one point janine truly fell in line and basically commented uh commended aunt lydia janine is proof to lydia that she's doing the work correctly she didn't have the respect of her peers or the handmaids but she did have the respect from janine until the glass shattered and she saw the real picture

[01:04:38] janine meaning janine i think the confrontation between lydia and janine definitely made me cry although instead of talking through it with my dog i started writing this lydia is sorry she's sorry for everything but lydia has whiplash right now the entire world she knew it is a lie she can't possibly grasp the reality all at once bringing the cookies was innocent and proves that she's out of touch still but also that she's carrying guilt janine bringing up that lydia stole her daughter was something

[01:05:08] she knew but not in this perspective it just peeled her eyes open more i certainly hope that she finds a way to get angela and janine out but we're not there yet she's got much more contemplating to do she's got more but i just want to say i i agree with all of that and i think it was very well said yeah very much uh as for serena serena is a full-blown narcissist people with narcissistic personality disorder do not see people as people but rather objects they're incapable of love and

[01:05:37] they use people to serve themselves from co-workers to their own children they're incapable of making real connections with people and will turn on someone the minute they don't serve their purpose in their lives like nicole for instance she never loved her she used her to fulfill the need of love she used her for her image in gilead and once she was gone and serena was pregnant nicole is no longer needed now i mean this is all awesome too now she doesn't exist she used fred as well

[01:06:04] then used his capture as a chess move the women on the train were used to fulfill her need to be needed by getting them all in seats and doting on them they began liking her but the minute they knew who she was she turned on them and she put her baby in harm's way while she did with june it's a little different because there's a real trauma bond there trauma bonds really know no bounds even though june doesn't serve her life anymore she's still trying to stay connected she isn't really sorry she's just

[01:06:32] trying to be accepted yeah that's true she wants june to like her narcissists can't stand not being liked she needs the same from rita serena thought because rita was nice to her she must like her and must be her friend she's so dense that she doesn't realize that she was doing that against her will because the world only revolves around herself kind of like maga rita is a kind person and gives serena just enough that serena isn't turning on her she might be conniving but she's still susceptible

[01:07:01] to love bombing i mean of course wharton is playing right into her narcissism she's getting everything she wants by marrying him but the minute that goes away and it most certainly will she'll be done with him too i hope it's too late the only way for a narcissist to redeem themselves is by first admitting that they're a narcissist then getting some help for it that's not happening and it's really hard to like it's so hard to treat narcissists or to overcome it but i i do think that if someone

[01:07:29] who's a narcissist does what you said they become aware and they seek help that they can improve but i don't see serena anywhere close to that um and i can tell you have some knowledge about this and i'm sorry that you do because that means that you had one in your life at least one but anyway goes on that's not happening she's playing victim instead ooh crossover serena is like ally from the yellow jackets oh it's a long one let's talk about nick if i had to guess on how things will go

[01:07:55] nick is pretty quick on his feet and although he just asked june to go to paris with him i think he's going to come up with a safer more successful plan for mayday hmm he showed us his hand in this episode ready to run away from his life and pick june to do it with he knows june would not leave without i mean now that we know what happened it's like he just asked june to do that only so she wouldn't find out what he did honestly you know what i mean because he wasn't even in danger he knows june would not

[01:08:22] leave without freeing the women but maybe he's thinking afterwards it's very telling that he'd abandoned his pregnant wife i agree maybe aunt lydia will go talk to lawrence about charlotte and maybe at that time lawrence will inform her of the commander's plan and that june is there maybe this will be the push lydia needs to switch sides random hot take naomi is the most awful character on the show and i think the only way for a happy ending for charlotte and janine is if she

[01:08:47] dies thank you kylie so tam from perth says hey everyone this show june is going to give me a bloody heart attack with this never-ending risk taking she's got excuse the expression balls whether it's walking back into gilead roaming the halls of jezebels last week to knocking on serena's door she's so lucky that serena literally has no friends and gives off a feeling of such desperation

[01:09:15] with words and tones the tea party catch up with rita was just like when she got the handmaids over to hang out with june and she's pouring tea and talking wedding cakes like their best friends i love how the girl's demeanor instantly changes serena left the room i was on the fence about nick and luke but i'm pretty sure most would agree that despite the whirlwind dreams of running off to paris and love bombing nick is on her and love bombing nick is on her shit list and he should be worried about

[01:09:44] what's coming to him from every direction now june bell warden the eyes etc zero allies last up my secret favorite evolution of joseph softening with baby charlotte aka angela teaching a two-year-old how to play chess or go to art class is insane unless you notice the comparison to show how joseph is playing his hand now explaining the chess pieces to this little girl with her bonnet band the picture of

[01:10:14] innocence to me each piece could represent how gilead works everyone is regimented and has a role that doesn't deviate from the king with one step at a time being chased down to the pawns that can be sacrificed and joseph is the knight taking a straight line and then a quick sidestep he's been doing this since he watched emily and nicole get on the truck out and now he's moving forward but dodging everyone

[01:10:41] chasing him down the writers are so clever to make my brain think this way and i just hope we get some kind of happy ending just so we all don't end up in some kind of loony bin as usual my word count runs well over but i just have to talk about this tam thank you oh my gosh great i've really enjoyed

[01:11:02] um everybody's feedback yeah it's been great really wrote a lot every week it's really yeah yeah we appreciate it maria nicola says hi guys just started listing this season bummed i didn't find you earlier i want to thank you for helping me rewind and unpack what just happened after each episode it's been a wild ride and i'm so scared for the end the handmaid's tale is the most difficult

[01:11:30] series to watch and one of the most important and i'm glad there's a global community of viewers thanks for sticking along and i definitely need the company under his eyebrows much love from greece well maria i hope you're gonna stick with us because we're gonna do testaments we are and i want to mention maria left her comment on spotify which you can do now you can comment on episodes so

[01:11:56] i was over there checking it out and so yeah neat so we have uh another call from red leader understudy it sucks also in this episode we find out commander lawrence played college basketball and cookie diplomacy apparently works better in the mushroom zombie apocalypse than it does in the fertility apocalypse but it also helps when you're already friends and aren't complicit in stealing

[01:12:26] someone's baby maybe someone should tell lydia that but also good luck with that because gilead people have the emotional literacy of toddlers at best and i'm saying best because even most three-year-olds know that even if you apologize to someone they might still want you to go away and leave them alone

[01:12:50] lydia then you have serena who still thinks she can earn forgiveness from june transactionally and thinks it would be fun to have a rita bake her wedding cake how precious and says something reminiscing like i miss when you used to bake bread and muffins the unsaid part being back when you were

[01:13:15] forced to be my household servant like what for someone who's supposed to be smart serena's a real fucking dumbass sometimes she spent so much of her life around people who have to yes and her that she has no idea she has like toilet level social awareness like toilet june points out that wharton

[01:13:37] who is terrifying by the way is giving early fred and also that new bethlehem is just rearranging the deck chairs but serena would rather shut out reality and cling to the protective blankie of her righteous beliefs again we know people do this instinctually we've kind of seen her go either way the question is whether she will keep doing this or try to make more choices away from it even though

[01:14:06] she's probably going to keep going back and forth i could still see her going either way the question is will she do more and more of the second one even when that forces her to reckon with herself which we'll see the closet scene at the end was dope everyone else said it already i'm with you guys in thinking nick probably isn't directly about to like out june but this still is a deep cut and yeah

[01:14:32] maybe a breakup if and when they get out of the closet i don't know where they go from here maybe nick bake some cookies and serena has a tea party and everyone hugs oh and we'll have a bounce house there for the children to jump around in and lawrence i i think yeah i think nick's gonna make do some heroic act and sacrifice himself that was great please please

[01:14:58] send in more yes two episodes that was really great please well madeline's that's madeline she's gonna be on an episode i think number nine oh okay joining us yeah yes i look forward to that because i'm on that one so that'll be you uh you jason me and madeline that's gonna be awesome yeah and you can call in wendy we'll miss you wendy sure we're from france so you're the one that's going to paris yes

[01:15:30] not not with nick probably not okay we are now at the time where we do our mayday briefing and so i'm gonna turn it over to jason all right so one of the clear this is our segment where we talk about real world stuff and how things that are kind of like the handmaid's tale are happening in the real world and one of the clear so if you don't want to hear that you should just stop listening

[01:15:56] spoilers um one of the clearest ways that the handmaid's tale reflects what's happening in the u.s today is through the growing influence of christian ideology in government and the problem is absolutely not christianity or religion itself but we should all be free to practice whatever religion we want or none at all that's supposed to be one of the foundational principles of american democracy and the problem comes when a religion gets tangled up with government and when the laws

[01:16:25] of our diverse country start reflecting the values of just one religious group then freedom of religion begins to erode and we get closer to something like gilead and you know as we all saw in the handmaid's tale religion was used to justify extreme authoritarian policies uh they were trying to fix two big problems radiation poisoning and an inclining birth rate but they leaned on scripture to create

[01:16:50] this system where quote fallen women could be forced into servitude as handmaids drawing from the story of jacob's handmaid in the bible and then anyone the government deemed quote unworthy like non-believers rebels or quote gender traitors was shipped off to toxic wastelands to clean up the mess and probably die there uh and and you know we've seen that many of gilead's leaders didn't even really believe in the

[01:17:15] religious ideals that were supposed to be the basis of all this otherwise why create jezebels if virtue and piety were what it was all about it's obvious that religion wasn't guiding at least some of them that it was just a tool for power and control so what does that have to do with us well in the real world donald trump has used religion in the same way it's pretty damn clear that he doesn't know anything about the bible if you remember he once called second corinthians two corinthians and when

[01:17:45] he was asked about his favorite scripture he was like that's too personal for me to say oh just give me one line no it's too personal it's because he doesn't know anything about it clearly he's not a christian no i mean he's cheated on all his wives you know he's just uh he had uh slept with a porn star he has name me one christian value he has shown he's anti-christian um but he's built a strong

[01:18:13] alliance with christians and that's been key to his political success uh he's signed executive orders expanding protections for religious groups he supported businesses refusing service to lgbtq plus people on religious grounds uh he's rolled back protections for trans people and just opposed lgbtq plus rights and and beyond policy he's leaned heavily into christian nationalist rhetoric he

[01:18:42] called himself a defender of judeo-christian values um claiming christians are under attack by secular elites staging photo ops like holding a bible outside of church during the george floyd protest upside down i believe um he's pushed for more prayer in public schools and he's portrayed public education as hostile to people of faith so he's appealing to evangelical homeschoolers private christian

[01:19:06] school advocates he also brought christian nationalist figures into key roles in his administration paula white cane is a televangelist and trump's longtime spiritual advisor was appointed senior advisor to the white house faith office and works alongside attorney general pam bondy who recently launched the campaign to crack down on supposed anti-christian bias in federal institution which is a move that

[01:19:33] risks prioritizing christian ideology and government functions um scott turner secretary of housing and urban development issued guidance refining gender under uh hud rules strictly by a biblical male female binary describing it as getting government out of the way of what the lord established that's a quote from scott turner worst of all russell vott who's was former and now back as current director of the office of management

[01:20:02] and budget he is the guy he was the main architect of project 2025 which if you listen to our podcast about let's not have the handmaid's tale for real we talked all about that that's it's a sweeping blueprint to reshape the federal government around conservative christian values claiming freedom is quote defined by god not man russell vott has been described as the glue between elon musk's department

[01:20:27] of government efficiency or doge and the republican agenda coordinating efforts to dismantle federal agencies and replace civil servants with political loyalists his influence extends to major policy shifts including mass federal layoffs and the rollback of civil service protections all under the guise of efficiency but driven by a christian nationalist vision vott's 180 day playbook outlines a rapid transformation of the federal government aiming to consolidate executive power and align federal

[01:20:56] policies with conservative christian principles and his role isn't symbolic it's strategic he this 180 day playbook is designed to fast track these changes in the first six months of the administration it it outlines how to dismantle federal agencies purge careers career civil servants and install loyalists who will pull it up push this christian christian nationalist agenda um and and these aren't isolated moves

[01:21:23] they're part of this larger coordinated effort to reshape the u.s government in the image of this particular religious world world view like a soft theocracy just yesterday on may 1st which was the national day of prayer trump signed this is as i'm recording this as we're recording this trump signed an executive order establishing a presidential commission on religious liberty and during the rose garden ceremony he openly questioned the separation of church and state saying they say

[01:21:53] separation between church and state i said all right let's forget about that for one time this move chaired by texas lieutenant governor dan patrick signals a a big change to the long-standing principle of separating religion from government uh it's just it it's it's not good for anybody to have

[01:22:17] like if you think of the theocracies around the world they're not good you need it separate right um and and he's just got all these other people around him uh ben carson cardinal timothy dolan dr phil it's a combination of political religious and media influences meant to reinforce the message that

[01:22:40] religion isn't just welcome to government it should guide it and all this points to just this move to embed conservative christian doctrine into the machinery of of government and and that has real consequences especially to lgbq plus people non-christians non-religious americans but it also

[01:23:04] reaches into education health care basic civil services dismantling the department of education for example means fewer safeguards for secular and inclusive curricula so what what people study rewriting health care guidelines through a biblical lens could limit access to reproductive care or gender affirming treatment even disaster relief and public health policy could be affected by faith-based

[01:23:29] priorities and and and it all deepens division when leaders push the idea that one group's religious beliefs should define in the entire country it fuels this polarization you know this thing that i was talking about in this episode where people come to see others as other unworthy somebody who doesn't count or matter and it just turns it all into this like makes people feel like there's existential threats on the other side

[01:23:55] it's a dangerous path for any democracy and in the end i think it damages religion too because when faith gets weaponized for political power then it's not about uh spirituality anymore a personal belief it's about control it's about it undermines the moral authority that religion has like when faith becomes a tribe and everyone else outside that tribe is seen as an enemy something's gone wrong when government uses religion as a tool of control

[01:24:24] then freedom suffers for everybody and that's exactly what happened in gilead and it's where the u.s is heading right now more and more every day yeah i mean our our country is going back a hundred years it's it's insane that people are doing this yeah yeah it's it's it's bad and i i hope like if you i know there

[01:24:48] are some christians listening to me and um i know at least one that i'm thinking of right now i think agrees with me that you freedom of religion is where we should be not yeah where the government dictates what everyone needs to believe the freedom of religion is the reason people left england in the first

[01:25:08] place if you believe in jesus and you think jesus would be happy with these changes that are being made i can't i grew up on christianity me too those two things just don't go together they do not the way that people are acting it's not the way that i was taught in sunday school or in church to behave

[01:25:34] and to treat other people and that flaws me that people think that this is okay i don't know what church they went to that taught them this it doesn't make sense and with like pam bondy have you guys seen her speak yes yeah and she's got this fire and she's always wearing a cross and and and you can tell i think that she's got like lydia and serena levels of belief around everything

[01:26:02] she's doing and self-righteousness you know yeah and that should be separate like be that way in your church and with your family but not with other people that you have control over yeah and then there's the people like trump and plenty of others like him that you know they don't have a christian bone in their bodies no but they're just using it yeah trump would be going to jezebel's absolutely absolutely yeah

[01:26:31] he's been to jezebel's yeah that's right you saw matt gates there yeah so wendy what can we do about it all right well i i say this with the understanding that it's hard times for people and so i think everybody has to participate in the level that they're comfortable

[01:26:59] with but i think raise awareness don't be afraid to speak up on social media we need people to talk about this talk to others share information with friends family we need to socialize this and the thing is like 20 years ago we would say like oh let's not talk about politics but this

[01:27:22] isn't politics this is way of life human rights the dismantling of our country this we need to talk about um write op-eds letters to the editor editor local papers still matter your neighborhood your voice can influence your community engage politically obviously vote local and state

[01:27:47] races matter as much as federal ones vote for everything call in or write your representatives i know i've been using the five calls app it's great it makes it easy it lays everything out for you but i also think when you call try to be as off the cuff as possible i just rant and usually i pick on andy harris because he's i live in a predominantly democrat state and he's one of the

[01:28:15] um republicans and he frequently emails me because i write in and and give my email and my um phone number and my address which god forbid but that's how we have to do it and um he will frequently respond with emails and the emails are form letters that say the same thing every time they say this country

[01:28:42] elected donald trump and he has a mandate to change america and that's what's happening and i support it and that's all he says about every topic um which means our cult leader whatever he says goes and he's the law of the land now he's our dictator and we bow down to him yeah and they're afraid they're they they they won't bucket um contribute time or money to non-profits and advocacy groups um wikipedia is

[01:29:11] under fire i i just donated to them i i mean they don't want facts they don't want education they don't want it easily readable nope they would love to um just do away with wikipedia right and oh oh here's a little hope for people who haven't been paying attention to the news because maybe you all have but uh trump's 100 days just passed and so they came out with a bunch of polls and it turns out that

[01:29:38] since they've done polling of presidential approval ratings this is the worst that any president has ever had at this point in his term including trump in his previous term uh that's been like 80 years or something like that so um that's to me i mean it's bad right now it is but i try to like it's good to point out the good news and to me that is good news because a lot of dictatorships happen with

[01:30:06] overwhelming support and we're not seeing that in this country and i hope that american uh spirit of freedom and fighting spirit is starting to come back you know on my way home today and i live in a very suburb area and on my way home pretty pretty close to home probably five miles from home very much

[01:30:28] suburbs i passed by about 50 senior citizens on the street corners protesting and it you know this is not something you see every day you know that's oh you know on a friday night at during rush hour yeah and and this weekend i participated in a huge protest in baltimore that was really uplifting and made me

[01:30:54] feel better about the situation and what did your sign say oh my sign said make gilead fiction again which a lot of people liked that and it was really great to see so many people in one place because so often you feel so alone in all this that's true yeah and and with that is like take everyday action

[01:31:20] be a watchdog report discrimination um educate yourself educate on laws and current events knowledge is power um check check on your neighbors check on your friends see how people are doing we have to take care of ourselves we have to be a community and yeah that's as important like hearing us if it makes you feel better that's great going to a protest can actually help you feel better talking to people who

[01:31:49] feel the same as you venting all of that because we need to keep our spirits up keep our fighting spirits up yeah and you know what that sounds a lot more like what i learned when i went to church being a community being the community supporting each other being there for each other that's what it's supposed to be in the spirit of community i want to talk and share we have a facebook group the handmaid's tale mayday

[01:32:16] and if you're feeling like you need a place to talk it out with other people that are watching the handmaid's tale and talking about those similarities we've made a safe space for you to be able to come and vent if you need to and give each other support we'll have a link in our show notes uh the community has grown a lot especially over the last week and we're really starting to have some good discussions

[01:32:43] in there that's awesome all right that's our show thanks for listening everyone next up handmaid's

[01:33:07] tale season six episode eight exodus i wonder what that is yeah i'm everybody leaves new bethlehem maybe i don't know yeah everyone leaves gilead where are they gonna go yeah if you want to write in or send us a voice message about what we're talking about you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com while you're there be sure to check out our other shows right now and or i mean

[01:33:37] there's so many shows right now that are reflection reflection of our discontent with oppressive government and or is one of those you could watch that and love it even if you've never seen a star wars thing in your life in fact you might have you might not have any uh like baggage or expectations and love it even more it's so good it's so smart um other shows that we cover that are kind of in the same vein our squid game and uh gosh it seems like there was a couple other ones that were like

[01:34:05] about authoritarian things uh silo is kind of like that i feel like i'm missing a big one but anyway if you go to podcastica.com and just click podcast you can see all the shows that we cover uh yeah i want to mention that strange indeed is actually back after a long break yes covering the season the final season of you so they're back peyken rima have been um they've covered the first

[01:34:31] two episodes so far so they're going week to week with it it's great all right that's our show thanks for listening and remember never let anyone's smoldering gaze obscure your better judgment except pedro pascal okay he's he's an exception