32: "The Handmaid's Tale" (The Handmaid's Tale S6E10)

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmm. Podcast to go! Boston is free. The Gilead occupation is over. We won. Here at least. Boston is America again. Praise fucking me.

[00:00:36] Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast. I'm Daphne. And I'm Wendy. And I'm Jason. And this is The Handmaid's Tale Podcast. This week we are covering The Handmaid's Tale entire show finale. Season 6, Episode 10 called The Handmaid's Tale. It's over! Oh!

[00:01:02] I have all the emotion and all the feels about this for so many reasons. It's over, it's over, and it's over. And it's, yeah. I'm on such a high about this show. Like, I watched 9 and 10 at the same time as soon as I came home from France. Thanks for coming back, by the way. Yeah, we really appreciate it. I really didn't want to.

[00:01:28] Um, but I watched them together and I just am on such a high ever since then. And I hope neither one of you have any criticism whatsoever. I have some nitpicks, sorry. No, that's okay. Maybe you can clarify a few things. Yeah.

[00:01:46] Like, I'm just so pleased that they, I honestly think this is one of the best series, if not the best series ever. And I used to say that about Game of Thrones. And I, I think this is better. They like stuck the landing and I'm so excited. That's great. And I'm sure some people might disagree with me, but that's my take. Don't let them take it away from you. Don't let the best be back you down.

[00:02:16] No. Yeah. No. So Wendy, I have to ask you, what did you think about the ending of episode nine? You know, I would say I wasn't as surprised as other people were. Um, Nick and Lawrence were talking here. Yeah. I, I, I, I sort of thought it was going to end up that way that Lawrence wasn't going to be able to get out.

[00:02:41] So that didn't surprise me. And it didn't really surprise me that Nick was there or. Yeah. But what did you think of it? Did you think it was a good ending for those? I loved it. I loved it. I thought it was Lawrence's redemption arc and by Nick. I know, I know there's a lot of discussion out there and our feedback episodes.

[00:03:08] I know we're going to touch on so much of it because fans have been so passionate about these characters and watching them, you know, go out this way. It's a lot. I mean, it was a lot as a viewer and a podcaster to watch how they went out. And so I was really curious about. Yeah. Well, cause I felt like I could not do anything for like. 20 minutes. I just. Was really.

[00:03:37] The screen thought Lawrence wasn't going to make it out of this series. Right. I just felt like that was the redemption arc that needed. And Nick, maybe I, I just didn't care that much. I certainly cared about how June felt, but I think June had it right when she said it in this episode that. He reaped what he sowed. Mm hmm. So it felt like the right arc for both of them for different reasons. Yeah, I agree.

[00:04:08] Yeah, I usually. It's good to have differing opinions on a podcast so you can cover different opinions of listeners, but we just don't have that on this one when it comes to this. Sorry listeners. No, I mean, I definitely. I think June's feelings towards Nick, we got to see an episode 10, which we'll talk about. There were some different flashbacks and things, but I can't disagree.

[00:04:37] I think that it was the way it needed to go. I think. Had there been some heroic thing at the end that allowed one or both of them to get off the plane, it just would not have been as impactful as it was. Yeah. It needed to be this way. Right. We lost some people that we loved and we lost some people that we were probably really glad to see them blow up. Yes. And we lost some people that, you know, we probably have some mixed feelings about. And I think that's what it was with Nick.

[00:05:08] Like there was a lot to like about Nick and a lot of people were attached to Nick, but ultimately this is what he chose. Yeah, I agree. So before we jump into discussing episode 10. Why don't we go ahead? We've decided that for this episode, we are going to start with the May day briefing.

[00:05:37] And I'm going to turn it over to Jason to explain this. Thank you. Yes. So this is where we talk a little bit about how the real world has become more like the Handmaid's Tale and say a few words about what we can do to fight back or at least stay sane.

[00:05:55] Um, we've had many reviews and messages from you guys saying that you appreciate us this season, changing tactics and are changing our philosophy and going ahead and being more open about politics given where the country's at. So thank you guys so much for that. I really do feel like listeners have been really enthusiastic about it.

[00:06:19] And we've gotten a lot of people who've signed up for our Facebook group where, uh, we've said, you know, it's okay to talk about what's happening in the real world in there too. And I think it was a risky move, but we really think we really all thought that it wouldn't make sense not to do that right now. Um, we've also gotten some pushback about it. We've gotten some one star reviews saying we shouldn't talk politics.

[00:06:45] And so I just guess this podcast is not for those people, but honestly, I really don't see how anyone who doesn't agree with our politics could be into the Handmaid's Tale and not see it as a rebuke against everything Trump and his administration are doing. And also Margaret Atwood always conceptualize the Handmaid's Tale as a reflection of the real world. She said, quote, I didn't put in anything that we haven't already done. We're not already doing.

[00:07:12] We're seriously trying to do coupled with trends that are already in progress. So all those things are real. And therefore the amount of pure invention is close to nil. And also she says, we're not living in Gilead yet, but there are Gilead like symptoms going on. This is pre Trump election too, by the way, but she spoke out against Trump in 2024.

[00:07:33] Also pre election, she said, you have a choice between somebody who without a doubt and has said so will impose a vengeful tyranny and another person who wouldn't. You get dictatorships when times are bad and chaotic because people are willing to trade in their democratic rights for somebody who says they can fix it. That is usually a lie, but that is how you get there. So I just really want to drive it home.

[00:07:58] If there's anybody left listening who doesn't agree with that, that's what Margaret Atwood wrote this for, for a time like this. She said it's supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual, you know? Yeah. So, so, so, uh, and, and, and some people with the show involved with the show agree to, I would presume most of them do, but, uh, Wendy brought our attention to this.

[00:08:24] Here's our beloved Bradley Whitford, who plays Lawrence speaking at a Handmaid's Tale event to Hollywood reporter. You know, when this show started, uh, the idea that Roe v. Wade was going to be overturned was inconceivable. We have seen in the course of this show, women's health become totally politicized. We've seen a president, uh, get elected, uh, uh, turning a vulnerable, uh, queer community into a political football.

[00:08:51] There are, I couldn't believe this, 64,000, this is according to the Journal of the American Medical Association last year, when there were 14 states that banned abortion, 64,000 pregnant rape victims without access to care. These are forced births. So it's, it's happening now. It's very upsetting.

[00:09:14] I hope that people understand that this is happening now, but I hope they don't despair. I, because the heart of the show is that June understands that, uh, despair is a luxury that our children can't afford and action is the antidote to despair. And we need, uh, to be, we need to be the change. That's the message I hope people get. How do you guys feel about him saying that? I agree.

[00:09:44] We do need to be the change. He's the ally we need. Yeah. I appreciate him using his influence and his moment at the mic to talk about that. And it's risky for him too. Like I said, it was more for guys like him. So I think it's really commendable for him to speak out like that. I think that some people get really.

[00:10:05] I hung up on looking at how things are affecting them personally at that moment and maybe thinking that they don't need to be as concerned at that point and can kind of distance themselves from what's going on. And we really can't do that. That's not a place that we should get comfortable in. You have to pay attention to what's happening. I'm not saying doom scrolling. I'm saying, be aware of what's going on. Mm hmm.

[00:10:35] We need to be better to ourselves first and then to each other also. And I think when we're talking about human rights, you can't just stay out of the race. Yeah, that's why we decided to start talking about it. And and, you know, he's saying we need to take action. That's the antidote. So I have a couple of things here that we can do personally. I think public sentiment still matters.

[00:11:03] So if we're all speaking out when we can doing protests, just making it clear that we do not want this. I also think that elections still matter and I hope they continue to matter. We'll see. I'm afraid that, you know, they're really trying to make it harder to vote and they're trying to rig things. But we still need to take elections seriously.

[00:11:30] And if we can make it to the midterms, which is the end of next year, we can overturn the House and maybe the Senate take power away from the Trump administration. And there's good reason to think that will happen since Trump's reelection. There have been there's always special elections happening for one reason or another that aren't during the regular election season. And a series of those across the United States in 2025 have indicated a huge shift towards Democratic candidates.

[00:11:59] New York State Senate District 22 and a significant upset Democrat Sam Sutton won a special election in a district that Donald Trump had already carried, had carried by 55 points in 2024. Sutton secured victory by nearly a two to one margin, signaling a dramatic swing in voter sentiment. Pennsylvania Senate District 36 Democrat James Andrew Malone flipped a seat in a district where Trump had a 15 point advantage in the previous presidential election.

[00:12:26] This marked the first time since 1890 that a Democrat represented Lancaster County in the state Senate. Iowa Senate District 35 Democrat Mike Zimmer achieved an upset victory in a district Trump had won by 21 points, highlighting the potential for Democratic gains in traditionally Republican areas. Florida's first congressional district, although Republican Jimmy Patronis won the seat.

[00:12:50] Democrat Gay Valamont improved the Democratic vote share by over 17 percentage points compared to 2024, even flipping Escambia County, a Republican stronghold. And last, but it isn't the last one, but just the last one I'm going to talk about. Wisconsin Supreme Court race, liberal judge Susan Crawford won by a 10 point margin in the state Trump had carried despite significant financial backing from for her opponent from conservative donors. That's the one that Elon Musk was pumping millions, millions of dollars in and he lost.

[00:13:21] Wisconsin Supreme Court race, liberal judge Susan Crawford won by a 10 point margin in the state of the state. You should never underestimate to the importance of your state and local elections. Yeah, it's all of it. So much more than just who we send to Washington, D.C. Right. School boards are important, too. Yes. Yeah. So I really, really encourage people if you haven't voted, if you only vote in the big elections to just vote, vote in any election that comes up because it's all. Really super important now.

[00:13:51] And and what another way to contribute if you're wanting to take some action and to keep this trend going of winning all these elections or swinging things over to the left is to write handwritten postcards and send them to potential voters, which has been shown to be an effective way to increase the numbers. And there's this site vote forward dot org. It's actually vote FWD dot org V O T F W D dot org.

[00:14:21] They make it easy. They send you the materials, the names and the addresses and even the scripts of what to write. And they actually want you to write it exactly what the script says because they know exactly what is the most effective. So you don't even have to think. It's just the fact that it's handwritten, I guess, that brings the message home for people. It's also anonymous. So if you want to feel like you're contributing the effort to take power away from Trump, this is one easy and effective way to do it.

[00:14:48] I'll put the link vote forward dot org in the show notes. And then secondly, another amazing resource is indivisible dot org, which is a site with strategies and tactics and tips for how everyday Americans can fight back together and defeat the Trump agenda. They're a partner of vote forward dot org, and they have a bunch of resources like guides on how to take action, list of protests that you can go to in your area. A lot of other information that lays out what's happening in the country and what we can do about it.

[00:15:16] So there's just a couple of things, you know, I think. Like, there's a lot of dissatisfaction about what's happening. And a lot of people don't just want to sit back and take it. It's true. We need to exercise our democratic right to vote. And in this episode, June said something to her mom, right? Like, we can't just let somebody else do it.

[00:15:43] Like, that's how Gilead came about in the first place. And so let's not let it happen here anymore than it already has. Yeah. Yeah. Jason, you already mentioned we do have the private Facebook group called the Handmaid's Tale Mayday for anyone who'd like a place to talk about Handmaid's Tale and to vent about the Trump administration and give each other support.

[00:16:10] The show might be ending, but we're still going to be active in that group. At some point, we're going to do a book club. So if you want to read the Testaments with us, join the group. And that's just something that we're going to be doing in the near future. The plan is to do the show, right? Absolutely. We will do Testaments. It's in production. We don't know when it's coming out, but we will be back to do that. Run by Bruce.

[00:16:40] I know. I trust him. I really trust Bruce to do it and do it right. Okay. With that said, are we ready to talk about the show? The finale? Yes. Yeah. Can I have a couple minutes to talk about Episode 9 since I didn't get to be on the podcast? Absolutely, Wendy.

[00:17:02] I just want to say when Toello busts through in his army gear, all like action hero, I just saw your face in my face. Yeah. That was quite the scene and I loved every second of it. So, yeah. So I wanted to talk about that. That was great. And I'm certainly not the only one as I've seen multiple TikToks dedicated to that scene as well.

[00:17:31] And also the opening scene with the handmaids strolling down the street to Taylor Swift's Look What You Made Me Do. Taylor's version. Like the new version that isn't even out yet, I don't think. That just needs a round of applause for that scene. I just thought that was amazing. And I know there was some confusion about where they were going and then they got caught right away, but I didn't care. I just loved it.

[00:17:58] Someone in the – because Daphne let us know that people can write comments per episode on Spotify. So I went and read the comments for that episode. And someone said, well, they said – don't you guys listen? They said that that was all the handmaids coming from the Red Center. And then they were about to go pick up the handmaids that were coming from the commander's houses when they got captured. So maybe that's what happened. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I'm quite sure that's what was going on. Yeah.

[00:18:26] There's a big fan theory that she was actually in it. I don't think that's true because I think they would have revealed it by now. But I just love that everybody loved it and everybody's going crazy over it. It's been really nice to see.

[00:18:41] But the other things, like I was listening to the podcast and the other things I wanted to talk about was people seem to find it abrupt that Maura and Luke were in the crowd and able to be there, that they were able to get all those weapons in and things like that.

[00:19:01] But it didn't really surprise me because I feel like this whole season has led up to the fact that all of the people in Gilead, they're uprising. And it's gaining momentum and it's getting stronger and stronger. And the more they clamp down, like just at this execution that they were attempting to clamp down, the more they clamp down, the more people are rebelling against that.

[00:19:28] And the people that are in those places of power to allow somebody to get smuggled in are the guards and the eyes and the little people and the the economy wives and all the people that don't have a lot of power but are actually on the front lines doing things. So it didn't surprise me that they were able to get smuggled in because I feel like that's what happens at the end of a regime.

[00:19:54] You know, all the little people start to let those things happen. And so I wasn't surprised at all. And also, I think like we were surprised that like Mara and June could sit with the handmaids and not get recognized. But I think that was the whole point is the handmaids are invisible. No one wants to look at them. No one wants to think about them.

[00:20:16] That's why they wear their red uniforms and have, you know, their faces hidden with their their hats is because no one wants to think about them. So they don't. And that's why they're able to get away with that. So those were just my thoughts about episode nine. I had so many, but cool. Okay. So where or who wants to kick off. Our discussion on this episode.

[00:20:44] I'm going to open it up to whoever wants to start. I guess I'll go first since Wendy just said something. Sure. Okay. I mean, first of all, I loved it. I thought it felt like an epilogue. And I, I almost always love it when I'm really invested in something and it ends that it comes to a climax, which I feel like it did last episode. And then they have a little bit more so you can just kind of say goodbye.

[00:21:14] Yeah. Breathe a little and get to know, you know, okay, how are their lives maybe going to be after this? Um, I, I, I liked that it had a lot of callbacks to early on in the series too. I always like when a show remembers what happened before. Um, I actually kind of liked that it leaves June still in the fight, but on a hopeful note, because that's where I think we need to be ourselves. So, you know, I, you'd think maybe the most satisfying ending would be the fall of Gilead.

[00:21:44] And I can agree with that too, but I think it's probably better. This is like the best of both worlds for me where I didn't want this to become an action hero rebel story early on because I thought it's supposed to be more of a warning. But now that we're having trouble in our country, I thought it would be great if it was inspiring. And now it's both because there's still like not out of the woods, but there's a lot of hope after this episode. And that's how I want us to feel in this country.

[00:22:13] Also, I, there were some things that I was confused about, as I said earlier, that I, that I need clarification on. And that's the only thing that kind of took away from it for me. But as we go through the episode, you know, I can ask you guys and see what you thought about those. I thought about every way it could end. And I'm really happy that they did give us so many reunions and tie things up.

[00:22:38] That was so wonderful and bittersweet in many cases to watch. And I just loved it. But yet at the same time, I feel like they didn't tie everything up with a big pink bow. And I loved that too, that there were things left untied and unsaid. And, and I liked that. I, I, it really felt real. You know, like I saw somebody online talking about like the end is going to be, and she listed all these things.

[00:23:08] And it was like, June gets Hannah back and everybody's happy. And, and, and like I, that wouldn't have felt real if they had done that. So I, I thought it struck this just perfect balance. And again, before we started today, I told Jason and Daphne that I was on such a high about this show that I'm probably going to be incredibly forgiving for anything that, any nitpick details.

[00:23:32] Because I'm just so pleased with, with the way they ended this series. Yeah. Yeah. I'll just add to that, that I wasn't expecting June and Hannah to be reunited, honestly. And like you, I feel like it wouldn't have been authentic to this show if that is what had happened.

[00:23:57] And because knowing that the Testaments are coming just made me think, even though I haven't read it, I just don't feel like everything's going to be tied up in this pretty red bow where everything ends in a happy way. Honestly, it ended much more positively than I thought it was going to. I agree. I expected a lot more deaths. Yeah. Yes.

[00:24:26] I'm really surprised. Honestly, that honestly, I was prepared for everybody except the people that I know live because I read Testaments to die. Everybody else I had like mentally half let go of. I feel like you have to sometimes protect yourself. With shows where it's coming to an end, but they decide to do a spinoff.

[00:24:50] Then the show ends in a way that's not very satisfying because they're setting it up for something else. Yes. And I do. I think that's what happened here. I think if the Testaments wasn't a thing, I don't think this would have been the ending. But in this case, I like it because of the reasons I said that. I just don't think this should be a story where we feel like, okay, that's all taken care of. And it was, you know, bad.

[00:25:19] But now it's over because I think it needs to leave us feeling like, no, there's still more to do. And so in this case, even if that is what happened, maybe it's not. Maybe it is. But I think it led to the right ending for this show. That's my opinion. Yeah. You think it would have been bleaker, Jason? Jason. Uh, no, I think given where the show has gone in recent seasons, I think it would have led to June finding Hannah.

[00:25:48] Yeah. Oh, but I don't know if there was not a Testaments coming there. They may have added another season. Like they may not have ended with six because it was originally. Yeah. Yeah. So I think they would have stretched it a bit longer. Mm-hmm. But I'm, I'm happy with how it ended. I'm looking forward to seeing what they give us with Testaments.

[00:26:13] But I feel like closing the door at this point on this story, on this part of the story, to me seemed like the door is closed. And I'm fine with it. I'm, I don't really have any major complaints. Especially, so I'll go into my first point, June's ending and what's next for her. And this is kind of a little bit of a long one. So jump in whenever you guys want.

[00:26:38] But, um, the first thing you hear is her voiceover saying Boston is free. The Gilead occupation is over. We won here at least. Boston is America. And again, praise fucking be. And I'm like, what a great way to start off the episode because it's a big win, right? It's not, but it is great. And it's this space that we've been in for most of this series or a lot of it anyway is now free and now America again.

[00:27:07] And that's just, uh, like, it's not a small win. It's a pretty big win. Yeah. It's huge. I mean, how long June's been trying to have a major win? There have been little ones along the way, but this was like a colossal win. Yep. And she says Gilead tried to fight, but they had no leaders. The Boston commanders were all dead.

[00:27:32] So that's another good thing that we know Lawrence's sacrifice helped. Yep. Yeah. Maybe Boston wouldn't have been freed if not for him doing that. Yep. So now looking forward, you know, June's talking about freeing more of the country. I mean, what I really liked, you know, she said at that time, Hannah was in Colorado. So she's going to keep going until she gets to Colorado where Hannah is.

[00:27:57] And, um, she sees this stuffed bunny rabbit, which I, is that like a place where people leave things for their lost loved ones or something like that? I think they were missing. Missing. Yeah. Missing or in Gilead still. And you realize where that is, right? June was. I thought it was the subway. Yeah. The Boston Globe building where the headquarters is that, that they've set up camp in.

[00:28:25] That's where she was back a couple of seasons ago when she was like, she escaped. And it just reminded me of that time where she went around gathering things from people's desks or stuff that was left behind and kind of was building this. Right. Memorial. Okay. And so it reminded me of that. And so I, it just makes. Yeah. Yeah. Reminds me of that.

[00:28:50] And, and also, I mean, the bunny in, in season one, when Luke was looking for June and Hannah, he found Hannah's shoe and her stuffed bunny in the woods. So it's just invoking Hannah. We've been feeling like, where's Hannah? Why, why haven't they been talking about? So I'm really glad they put the focus back on Hannah in this episode. Yeah. There's flashbacks with June and Hannah at the merry-go-round and later in aquarium, both of which we also saw in season one flashbacks to those moments.

[00:29:19] By the way, when June lost Hannah for a minute at the amusement park, I had pretty much the exact same experience with Nico when he was three years old. I just turned to get a ticket to the Ferris wheel for about 10 seconds, turn around. He was gone. And I went out like kind of panicking Nico Nico. And then I couldn't see him. So I just started yelling Nico. And everybody was looking at me and then somebody pointed, I think he's over there. And I went over and he was just looking up at some ride.

[00:29:49] I feel like every parent has had that experience. Yeah. I had the same thing at the zoo. So, um, and then Mark tells June that Mackenzie, who's the commander who has Hannah has been reassigned to DC. So she just needs to make it to DC. Um, then Holly and Holly, the mom and her mom and daughter come back. And that's where June tells Holly, it's her job to keep her safe, but also to help keep all the little girls in Gilead safe too.

[00:30:18] So she's going to have to leave her at least for a little while. Well, and I didn't talk about it cause it's another point, but I think that was inspired by her talk with Emily who left her wife and child to fight Gilead, but said she still loves them and considers them her family and does what she does for them. So that's what June's about to do, you know, leave her child at least for a little bit at a time and fight, fight for her. And also she has still another child to get.

[00:30:47] Um, and when she talked with her mom and, um, her mom's afraid that who's going to keep you safe. And June says, the thing is mom, I'm not safe. And neither are you. And they're never going to stop coming for us. And even when we're gone, they're going to come for our children and our grandchildren. Fighting may not give us everything, but we don't have a choice because not fighting is what gave us Gilead in the first place. That's what I was referencing in the beginning of this podcast, but why we need to right now vote. Like that's what we can do right now. One of the things.

[00:31:18] And then the whole thing about June saying, you know me pretty well, you know, I'm not going to give up. And Holly says, I think I'm just getting to know you. I really love that. And it reminded me of a podcast that Wendy and I did what, two days ago on the last of us, where we're talking about how a character in that show is in their teenage rebellion stage and, uh, kind of distancing herself from her parents. And we were talking about how that happens most of the time with teenagers.

[00:31:46] And then eventually they come back to you, but they're a different person. And that's what stage we're at with June here. She's, she's a different person. And, and Holly looks up to her now and says, you know, things like your daughter should know her mother is a warrior. So it was really nice to hear her mom saying all those nice things about her. I liked that Holly saw June in this, in this new way, in the way. I think that Holly always wanted June to be this warrior.

[00:32:14] Like she, she always knew she had it in her. That's what she wanted for her. But June went on her own path and did her own thing. But now it's come around to this point where June is this, you know, icon. Yeah. Above and beyond the call. I mean, she's the mockingjay to quote, you know, as far as the hunger games, like she's the mockingjay of the anti Gilead movement.

[00:32:43] And I imagine they're both very different than when they last saw each other before Gilead. Because think about everything June's been through. Yeah. I mean, that isn't normal change. And, and then everything Holly's been through, she's been in the colonies for years and seen death and horror and they're both different people. Yeah.

[00:33:10] So then Holly encourages June to write a book. And I think that's why this episode is called the handmaid's tale. Cause that's the name of June's book. And, and she went to the Waterford house and we get that old handmaid's tale music. That's beautiful, but more, it's just full of dread that I can't do it, but you know what I'm talking about? It's like, I get PTSD feelings with that. And I loved how Elizabeth Moth played it.

[00:33:37] Like it was hard for her to even look up at the window where her room was at first. Yeah. Kind of forced yourself to look. And then she's like, okay, I can handle this. And that's kind of what this whole thing is all about. It's just like going there. So it won't have as much power over her anymore. I mean, I think she's thinking about her book and everything, but it reminds me of going back to old childhood places, which I love to do, but you get a lot of feelings. Remembering. You get triggered sometimes of the not good experiences.

[00:34:06] Cause I mean, yeah, I mean you get triggered to be positive or negative. Yeah. And here, like, it's just a horror show. So she goes inside and it's, um, it's just where it all started, where she had been powerless. And now she's in a totally different situation and it's all dilapidated and damaged in the fighting, I guess that just happened. And, and the one part I, I didn't quite get, she, did she imagine holding Hannah's hand in there? Yes. What was that about? She did.

[00:34:36] Because that's what she's thinking of. She's feeling Hannah's presence there. Hmm. Okay. I mean, she's, I know she's. And it seemed to be an older Hannah. Yeah. She's not. Now. Yeah. She's not seeing Hannah as the child that was taken from her when she was little. She's seeing Hannah more the Hannah that she is now. The older Hannah that she doesn't know. Right. Wife school.

[00:35:07] So then she's speaking into her recorder, a chair, a table, a lamp. There's a window with white curtains and the glass is shatterproof, but it isn't running away. They're afraid of a handmade. Wouldn't get far. It's those. It's those other escapes. The ones you can open yourself. You can open in yourself, giving a cutting edge or twisted sheet and a chandelier. I try not to think about those escapes. It's harder on ceremony days, but thinking can hurt your chances. My name is Offred.

[00:35:35] And that's, of course, June's voiceover in the very first episode of The Handmaid's Tale. It's probably the first thing we ever heard from her. And now it's the last thing we hear. I feel like going back to where it all began for us when we met June. Yeah. And closing the door. It gave me chills.

[00:35:55] This way with June being in control of herself and being in power over herself was incredibly kind of emotional and cathartic. And it hit me in a way I wasn't expecting because I realized, I think, what they were doing as soon as she started talking. And I just was overtaken by it thinking, OK, this is this is the end. It's really ending.

[00:36:25] We're closing the door. OK, you've done a great job. You know, I felt really good about that. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, the more I thought about it, the better I felt about it. It seems like June writing a book to inspire people might be a mirror world reflection of Serena having written a book to inspire people in the wrong way. She's doing it the right way.

[00:36:51] And also in a story that was about women being restricted and forbidden to read and write. It's perfect to end on June beginning to write a book to tell her story and use her voice to inspire others to fight like she did, which is kind of what her mother was saying she should do. I just think it's perfect. One thing I was thinking, OK, you're writing a book to inspire people to keep fighting, fighting. So I hope your book doesn't end with you being taken away in a mysterious van.

[00:37:21] Well, you might need to have a different ending then. Yeah. Right. That woods version. But in Margaret Atwood's version of the novel, you didn't know where she was going. You didn't know if she was with Mayday or she was with Gilead. I mean, it was ended that way on purpose. Yeah. And like, I mean, that to me, I always say that book is a warning.

[00:37:45] But the way her mom was describing why she should write her story, it was like, so people who have lost, you got to inspire them to never give up fighting. And so I think and to show them what a warrior you are. And at that point, June wasn't a warrior. So it needs to go on and tell more. Right. That's my point.

[00:38:06] One little piece I'd like to add to what you said, Jason, was that when she loses Hannah at the amusement park and then finds her, Hannah says, you lost me. And June remembers saying, mommy, mommy's always come back. And she's remembering that moment where she says that. But June didn't come back for Hannah. Mm-hmm. And I just can't imagine what that feels like.

[00:38:37] And that's what I think we're supposed to take away from that. You know, her pain and her anguish that she'll never get rid of until she gets Hannah back that she didn't come back for Hannah. But of course, we know she tried. It just reminds me of that one time when she got to meet with Hannah. And Hannah was like, where did you go? I forget exactly what she said. But like, where didn't you come back? You know? And it was just so fucked up, man.

[00:39:07] That just killed me. Like, I never hated Gilead more than in those scenes where it's just like you ruin this relationship between this mother and this daughter. The trauma. The trauma that it puts on the kids. The moral bullshit. Right. And the child doesn't understand why has, you know, my mommy abandoned me. And June and Hannah cannot get this time back.

[00:39:35] This time is gone forever. If they're able to reconnect at some point, they're not going to be able to rebuild those missed moments. They're going to have to start from where they are. And be honest. And it's going to be hard. It's going to be really hard.

[00:39:56] And even if Hannah didn't realize logically that, you know, my mom did everything she could and it wasn't her fault. It's still hard to overcome that emotion of feeling abandoned and resentful, you know, like it's going to take some therapy or something, you know? Yeah. Yeah. If all the therapists were not strung up by Gilead.

[00:40:22] So let's hope that there are some left in the world to be able to take care of that. That's very important. Yep. So, Jason, did you have any more? Nope. Okay. I would like to build off that a little bit.

[00:40:47] In talking about Luke and June and how I think, in my opinion, how I think that they have been dealing with not being able to get Hannah back. And it's a coping mechanism. I mean, part of it. At one point, June goes to see Luke and he's talking about getting the power on. He's talking so fast, but you can tell he's exhausted and he hasn't slept at all.

[00:41:13] And that's kind of a coping mechanism for people who don't want to sit in the feelings of despair and they're trying to keep their mind off it by overcompensating, by pushing themselves beyond what their physical or mental limits are. And keeping busy and keeping focused on tasks that can help get to that point. Productive things.

[00:41:39] And June also, because I've seen some criticisms and some comments online about June. Well, she isn't talking about Hannah. Is Hannah even still on her mind? I think Hannah was still very much on June's mind. I think June has been living in this mode where she's just had to stay one step ahead of people, pushing and trying to beat back, trying to stay alive, trying to save her friends, trying to save people. Wanting to get to Hannah.

[00:42:09] Hannah being in Colorado so far away. Almost getting her back with the airstrike that ended up being a disaster. In this episode, I feel like it was the first opportunity that we saw June have to actually step back and breathe a little bit and connect with feelings more than what we've seen in other episodes.

[00:42:30] Because she's really been giving in to the rage, I think, and the stress of the situations that she's been in. And this one, because it felt like an epilogue, she really had to sit with that. And she allowed herself the time to sit with those feelings a bit. And I appreciated that because I think, given that some fans have been disappointed in her not bringing up Hannah all the time,

[00:43:00] I just think it's kind of a realistic response, given everything that June has been through, that she wouldn't be running around saying, Hannah, Hannah, Hannah, Hannah. I think she had to, you know, she was in self-preservation mode. I mean, two days ago, I think, or two. At some point, she was almost hanged, okay?

[00:43:25] She's been living in dangerous situations for the last couple of seasons that we've seen her. And I think that it makes sense. And in watching Luke kind of do the same thing, where he's so, so focused on everything else, he'll do whatever he can so he can get closer to Hannah. And that's why he's focusing on things like turning on the lights and getting the, so the planes can come to Logan Airport.

[00:43:52] And he's, you know, focusing, focusing, focusing on those things. And they're two people that want the same end result. And I think their story, where they left it, was realistic because they are two very different people now.

[00:44:11] And maybe in order for them to potentially grow back together at some point, they have to be a part to try to do what they can to get Hannah back and meet back together when it's time. Anyway, that's my thoughts on that.

[00:44:29] I definitely felt like there was a distance between the two of them, which is to be expected with everything they went through and Nick and all of that. But at the end, I felt like they were together. Like, maybe not going to live as man and wife because they're resistance fighters at this point. They're both kind of doing their own thing with the rebellion.

[00:44:58] And that's, that and getting Hannah back is both of their primary focus. But, and I loved that they didn't wrap it all up in a, I'll love you forever and kiss and hug and a, you know, passionate embrace. I love that they left it kind of ambiguous. But I do think they are still together in their hearts. Luke says there's definitely going to be an after for them.

[00:45:28] And then he says that he's going to meet June, you know, wherever they're going. And even if they never see each other after that moment, I think they're together in their hearts and their souls. Yeah. And that was enough for me. He also encouraged her to write her story and that the people that helped her along the way, the people that loved her, even Nick,

[00:45:57] deserve to be remembered for that, for what they did to help her. And yeah, I think that was very kind of him to say, to like, to say it and mean it. Cause I felt like he was being genuine with it. Yeah. She probably would have died twice over. Right. If it kept intervening. Absolutely. A few things about what you said, Daphne.

[00:46:25] Um, I, I, I don't think I realized it until I heard you talking about it, but yeah, I think June felt more at peace than she has since before Gilead. And in some ways she, she's even more because she's just a more confident person, you know, more grounded. So this was a different feeling than we've had from her.

[00:46:50] She's very much like, like when she got back to Canada, when she got into Canada, she was so just frazzled and damaged and upset. And here she's just seems like, like even I'm sure we'll talk about it more, but forgiving Serena. She just had a good place mentally. Yeah. Everything. And that's nice to end on. Yeah.

[00:47:13] The, the time that I most thought she should mention Hannah or think about Hannah was when Nick was trying to sweep her away to Paris. And it seemed like she was considering it. Maybe she wasn't, but she's like, you're crazy. And she, you know, should have said, no, I have Hannah here. I can't do that. But that, I think the reason she didn't was nothing more than just that didn't fit what the little story beat that they were trying to tell in that moment.

[00:47:42] And that would have complicated the message that the show was going for right then. But to me, it felt like that would have been a point to mention Hannah. Yes, I agree with that. But I also think that June had to play things incredibly close when it comes to Nick. I think she trusted him, but I think maybe she may not have trusted him as much as she used to. I'm not sure.

[00:48:11] I mean, I could be wrong on that, but I think June had to feel like she was in a chess match all the time when she was in Gilead, even in New Bethlehem. So I think she had to be more calculating and saying. I don't think she was being calculating in that moment by not mentioning Hannah. And I just think that was, they wanted to focus on, oh, she's getting wrapped up in this romance of Nick. And then you find out that he's only doing it because he doesn't want her to find out what he just told Belle.

[00:48:40] And they didn't want to complicate all that with, oh, no, she's just going to say no to him anyway. So it doesn't matter, you know, because of Hannah. I mean, maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure. And then about June and Luke, this is one of the parts I was really confused by. Because the last that we saw with them, they had that whole thing where they were like, you know, I should.

[00:49:09] And Luke said something like, I should want to leave you, but I don't. And June was telling him, you should only be with me because you want to, not because you pity me. And he said, I do want to be with you. And she said, I want to be with you too. So it felt like, okay, they're together now. And then in this episode, Luke comes up and is like, he's talking about, you know, I found this base on the north border where I'm going to hide out and start fucking shit up again. Okay, be careful. And then, yeah, I'm going to be careful.

[00:49:39] What about you? What are you up to? I'm going to talk to Mark and see what he's doing next. We're going to go set by state. I'm like, well, aren't you together? Like, you're not even thinking about, should we tell each other that we're not presuming we're going to do this together? It's like two friends talking about their plans, their college plans. And then, and then they both say that they're focused on Hannah. So why don't you work together on that? Why are you going to meet there?

[00:50:04] Why don't you just like, it doesn't even come up in conversation that they should maybe work together to get their daughter back. Since that's what they're both doing. They're going their separate ways. It didn't sense to me at all. I think they have different roles in the resistance. I do. I think that's what I thought. Yeah. I think that Luke is very much explicit. Like, you know, I wish we could do this together, but you got to do your thing and I got to do mine. So we'll meet up later. I think you're meant to know that there is distance between them.

[00:50:33] And that was just, that was a conversation they had. Did they have that conversation? A couple episodes ago. Before. Yeah. Like that was before he told her, don't be in love with a fucking Nazi. No, it was after. That was after. I loved that line. But that was before. The same episode. Before Nick's death. Death.

[00:50:54] And I think we're meant to know that a lot has happened and there's distance between them, but they do love each other. Even that part where they're talking about, you know, we're different now and we don't really know each other. And I'm like, didn't you already reckon with that? I don't think he meant we're different because of things that have happened in the last couple of weeks. I think he meant we're different than we were when we were together before Gilead.

[00:51:22] Because that's what he says, you know, was there ever before? And, and it's like, yeah, but you've been back together for like a year or more. You would have reckoned with all these. It's like the timing of the emotions of this just felt weird to me. Didn't work for me. I feel like when he said we're different, it's because for so long, Luke was focused on getting June back and Hannah, but getting June back.

[00:51:52] And then when she was back, it was taking care of her. Is she okay? Is she going to be okay? Kind of reining her in because he tried to rein her in unsuccessfully for a good season and a half. And they had some good intimate moments though, right? When they were. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's like, they don't know each other. Right. But I'm saying they would have talked about, like, it seems like that just happened.

[00:52:16] Like they just came back together after having been apart for a while and then realizing that they don't know each other anymore. Yeah. And I think Luke always kind of thought she had one foot out the door, which she might have. Yeah. Yeah. Which is why, I mean, again, they just had that talk recently. Like, okay, we've felt like they recommitted to staying together. I think they did.

[00:52:41] But I also think they're also looking at, we have a real shot to get Hannah back now. Yeah. We have momentum and we need to keep doing this. And that is the priority. Not having a retreat where we can reconnect with our feelings. I think they have to do this. Yeah. But I just wish then it would have been more like, oh God, I'm glad we got through this baby. You know, we won.

[00:53:10] But now we can't just sit here. We have to still work to try to get Hannah back. And you're, it's going to be better if you go here and I go there. But we will meet up when we meet Hannah. Not like, oh, so what are you planning to do? Oh, I'm going to do this. What about you? Oh. Right. But I think that's because they haven't resolved their issues. No, they haven't. I mean, you can't just have one conversation and resolve everything. Like, it's complicated.

[00:53:36] And they have a lot to resolve. And I don't know that they're giving it that time right now because now the focus is continuing the resistance, trying to get to Hannah. So I feel like it's, it's, it's. That makes sense. But they just ended. They just had a conversation where it felt like they recommitted to staying together. And now you're saying they have this unresolved stuff. Fine. So talk about that. Or, you know.

[00:54:05] I don't think there's time for it right now. The way they presented it in this episode, it seemed like that conversation that they had last time never happened. I just feel like it's a continuation. I feel like it too. Yeah. It felt like. And it's okay. It felt like an alternate universe version of these characters where it's like a different path led up to this. We'll see if listeners agree or not. Let us, let, let me. Let us know. Yeah.

[00:54:31] I think that Luke honestly too knows June probably needs some time anyway, because he knows that June was in love with Nick. He knows that June's going to have to mourn Nick, regardless of her being able to get him off the plane or stop whatever. Nick is dead and she loved him. And she had a hand in his death.

[00:55:01] Yes. Which makes it worse. That also makes sense. Yeah. It wasn't in the episode we saw today. There was no. Well, they had flashbacks of Nick. They did have flashbacks of Nick. And Lawrence too. I thought she was grieving both of them. I thought she was in love with Nick. Yeah. What I'm saying is there was no indication that Luke was like, you know what? We said we were going to be together, but Nick just died. So I'm going to pretend like that conversation never happened and act like we're just friends going off to college so that June can have her space.

[00:55:30] You know, it just didn't seem. I don't think they acted like they were friends going off to college. No. I have to agree with Wendy on this. And honestly, listeners, let us know what you think. Because I liked it that they left it. Damn crazy. Ambiguous. Wendy, what do you have for us? I want to talk about what happens after. So they won. And of course, they haven't won everything.

[00:55:59] Gilead is still in existence. But they've won. And we see what happens after. Some of the things that I thought were really interesting is they were burning all of the Gilead flags and banners and everything that meant Gilead. Did you notice that in that fire were a lot of mattresses? Yes. And they don't talk about it. Again, they're not going to spoon feed us.

[00:56:25] But I thought these were probably mattresses that were involved in ceremonies. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Yep. I really liked that little touch. They're in there. They don't talk about it. They don't spoon feed us the details. But they pay attention to every little thing you see on screen. So if you see something on screen, you know it probably means something. So I really like that.

[00:56:52] And just they said like it sounded like they had most of Massachusetts now. They didn't talk about the western border, but they said the southern border was just about the border with Rhode Island. Yes. So it sounded like they had gained most of Massachusetts. And we're going to work their way south and west. And then I feel like June is really, and she even says this.

[00:57:21] She's mourning the life that could have been. What if Gilead had never happened? What would her life have been like? And finally, she burns her red handmaid's cape, which seems pretty symbolic. And then as she's walking away from all of that, the lights come on because Luke was able to get the electricity back on.

[00:57:47] And so the lights come on one by one as she's walking away, which is just cinematically amazing. I mean, this show is going to be studied in college classes for its use of cinematography and light. I just thought that was so nice. And then we have the scene with Rita, Maura, Emily, June, and the other women who have been freed from Gilead singing and dancing the way me and my friends do.

[00:58:16] The way we do with the Zedheads. We love a girls dancing event. The way people do all over the world. And it was just so beautiful with the lights dancing over them. And it was to the tunes of Fleetwood Mac's song, Landslide. I love that song. And it's known as a song about parents and children, specifically mothers and their children. And so I thought that was really fitting.

[00:58:46] So I just wanted to read, like, when I looked at the meaning behind the song. They said, it's a powerful reflection on personal change, loss, and the passage of time. It explores themes of fear, introspection, and the need to embrace a new chapter in one's life. And though it wasn't written about motherhood, that's what the song always personally reminded me of. And I always thought of my girls when hearing it.

[00:59:12] And then it made me think about real times, too, because I think that wherever our country ends up, it's not ever going to be the same. We'll never be the same as before MAGA. Our country, whatever our future holds, it will be different. We can't just go back. It's not, we can't go back to the Obama years. It never works that way.

[00:59:39] And it's funny because that whole movement is based on going back to a better time in the 50s and the 60s, you know. But it never works that way. And I thought the biggest symbol of that was when Emily and June are talking and we see the big wall with all the people who wrote their names.

[01:00:05] And those are probably names that were taken away from them in Gilead and they weren't able to say their names and other expressions of freedom. But about 20 feet away was three guardians that were hung and just left out to rot, which is not what progressive societies do. But I just thought that was a symbol of like, this isn't just like before. This is after is going to be something different.

[01:00:34] Yeah, this is another opportunity for her to look back and see everything that could have been happy times. Whoever's in the visualization. And then the other thing I want to point out is something that Mark Twelo said to June when they were talking later that kind of ties into this. And what you said, Wendy, about how things can't, they never can just go back to the way that they were.

[01:01:05] Right. And he said to June, my son's in Hawaii with my ex-wife. When I close my eyes, I see them and I get back to work. This is the best I can do for him. Bring down Gilead so he doesn't have to do it. And June says after, may God speed the day so we both can get some rest. And again. And everybody in this episode told everybody else to go to sleep.

[01:01:33] I thought that was funny. Yeah, there was a lot of rest encouragement. But no one wants to listen. That's right. We all push a little too hard, I think, sometimes. But I wanted that to be true. So, Jason, I think we're back around to you. All right. Which one do I want to talk about? How about Serena? Oh, boy.

[01:02:03] Here we go. So, I liked her ending a lot. She's in a kind of a sad place without much. But she's happy to be Noah's mother. And honestly, I think there's a pretty decent chance that she'll bounce back like she always does. But that's not where we left her. First, she tells June she can't go back to Gilead because too many people want her dead.

[01:02:32] I was sort of like, really? How come? Because I don't know why anyone would know that you told June where those commanders would be. That seems to be the implication, right? Did she say she couldn't go back to Gilead? She did. She said she couldn't go back to Gilead. Right, right. She could not go back to Gilead. So, that was a little piece that didn't quite make sense to me. I think they just wanted to make it so that she was stuck. But I don't think it would be known what she did.

[01:03:01] And would she go back to Gilead? That's true. That's the real question. I just want to shake her some more. I don't think that she could go. I don't know. Serena's an enigma. You think she wouldn't want to. That would have been better. Yeah. She would have said, I don't want to go back to Gilead. But she said she couldn't because too many people would want to kill her. She said she can't go to Canada. Well, that makes sense. Or the EU. So, at first I thought that's what she was saying.

[01:03:29] But on second watch, I realized what she was saying was no one would give her a passport. Meaning she's not a citizen of anybody. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so, she tells that to Mark later. And so, Mark says he's putting her in a refugee camp for now. And then that's when she says she doesn't have a passport. He said he's working on a solution.

[01:03:54] So, I guess maybe she does want to go to maybe the EU or something. But Mark's working on it. He says he's working on it. I'm sure he'll find a solution. Then she says, my fate is completely in your hands. And he says, I'll find you. And I think he totally will. So, we're left here. I believe it. Yeah. Mark talked about his family to June for the first time.

[01:04:21] We've never heard him talk about he said he has a son in Hawaii with his ex-wife. And when he said that, it was early on in the episode, I thought, oh, he's mentioning he has an ex-wife. That means he might end up with Serena. And I do think it opened up that possibility. And I think the idea is that he still could. Who knows? But they didn't want to give Serena that definitively happy of an ending. And I think that was a good move. I'm okay with that. I'm okay with it ending the way that it did.

[01:04:50] Yeah, this is one of the things that I was really happy that they didn't try to tie it all up with a bow. Like, it would have been weird had they had a big, passionate embrace and kiss. That would have been weird. But the thing is, knowing her, that happened the next day. I see so many people online saying that she doesn't deserve him. Yeah. And I absolutely agree.

[01:05:14] But also, I'm ready for the Serena and Mark Twela spinoff. If it's what he wants, okay? If this is what he wants. And he would be good for her. Yeah. She would be bad for him. Okay. So, she apologized to June. And she started crying and said, When I recall some of the things that I did to you that I forced you to do, I'm ashamed. And June said, You should be.

[01:05:44] Yes, I'm sorry. And if words mean anything at all, I am sorry. And then there's a pause. And June says, I forgive you, Serena. I do. And man, Serena cried. And that really got me to my heart kind of melted. She goes, Thank you. God bless you, June. And I don't know if Serena deserves that. I don't. I wouldn't say I think she definitely doesn't. Because she has been doing better lately. Yeah. But maybe not. But it really felt good.

[01:06:13] And June says, Go and grace Serena. Like a heartfelt Gileadism for the road there. And I think there's a good chance that we'll never see each other again. I do think. No, go ahead. Sorry. I do think that some of the emotion that we see in these final scenes, it comes from a place of, we've been playing these characters for the six seasons. And these are our last scenes together. Yeah. So you just see it.

[01:06:43] You could just see how much the actors care. They were both amazing in that scene. Yeah. And it's just, the show has always been about those two a lot. So that's it. Man, they may never see each other again. As far as, I mean, I think Serena was very sincere in her apology. Just a couple episodes ago, she was rationalizing to handmaids why they should forgive and forget.

[01:07:11] And she was saying, I was mean to my handmaid, but she was mean to me too. So it did feel a little bit like the pitch meeting thing. If you watch those pitch meetings on YouTube. Love the pitch meetings. Why did she change her mind now? Because it's the end of the show. So, but I guess you could say she's just been heading in that direction for a while. Like the direction of culpability. And she finally got there. Yeah. I'll choose to see it that way. Then we see Serena and Noah at the refugee camp.

[01:07:38] And this aid worker isn't even sure that she could stay like more than one night. That they don't even have extra diapers or clothes. And it was just so jarring to see Serena so powerless and with nothing. And I do instinctively feel bad for her. Even though she's left a lot of women in much worse. And I had to keep reminding myself of that, right? That's what I always try to do. Okay. Fine to have your emotions.

[01:08:05] But what is justice here? You know, what do people actually deserve? And she's saying to Noah, you're the most important thing in the world. You're all I need. You're all I ever wanted. And I'm so blessed. My beautiful baby boy. And the camera pans back and she just has this cod and a few diapers and a onesie. And what's really striking to me about her story is it's the juxtaposition. Like she, she is generally sorry.

[01:08:32] She is genuinely sorry with June and it's touching, but also there's been a pattern of her being more compassionate when she's has less power. She's at this refugee camp, but she's told she'll have to find another place the next day. But she's, uh, and you know, you feel bad for her, but also she's in a position similar to what her actions have put many other people in. And, uh, she seems like she could greatly suffer, but it also seems like there's a pretty good chance.

[01:09:01] Mark to hello could snatch her up and she could land on her feet like she always does. Um, and, and then last, she's just not doing, she's not in a good position, but she's sitting here being, I think, sincerely, profoundly grateful to be with her son. And saying that's all she's ever wanted. Believably I thought, and just following June's advice that she gave her earlier, just be his mother, you know? So, uh, there's just a lot of richness there and, and a lot of conflicting emotions, I guess is what I'm trying to say with her.

[01:09:32] I liked how they shot that scene where you think they're the only people in the room. It's so close, like it's so up close and it seems quiet. But then as it pulls back, you realize there, there's just people everywhere. That's how full the shelter is. And I also like that the person who's helping her says a chair, a table, a bed is all you need, I guess. And it goes right back to where we go with June.

[01:09:59] Right back to the beginning of the show and the end of the show. Because the point of both of those things is pulling back and seeing that, wow, she's just one of a bunch of people. And she's kind of a no one in a way. And yeah, in, you know, not as bad of a position as June was in, but that's kind of the idea, like powerless and stuck. Yeah. I think some adversity and challenge will be good for Serena. Yeah.

[01:10:26] But I do think Serena is going to land on her feet. Mark's going to go, I came up with an idea. I have an extra bed. How do you feel about Hawaii, Serena? How do you feel about Hawaii? I will say I loved that we saw this flag that had three stars on it. Yes. Instead of the two. So that was like reassuring. You got to add those back one by one.

[01:10:56] One by one. Okay. So. I have a question. Okay. Do you think she should have forgiven Serena? I do. I could absolutely. If someone argued against that, I wouldn't argue too hard, but I think it was good. I wasn't sure that she was going to. I think for June's own sake, she probably needed to.

[01:11:26] That's what a lot of people say is forgiveness is about you. The forgiver. Kind of what she was saying, right? Who was she talking to? Right after that, Mark said that was really generous. She just doesn't want to be in that space. There's stuff you have to let go of. There are things you have to let go of in order to be able to move forward as a person.

[01:11:50] And so for June to be able to switch gears and to really focus on the priority, which is Hannah, she has to let go of some of this baggage. And absolution is sometimes the best way to do that. I would say that if Serena hadn't changed at all, then. Then no. Then absolutely not. Serena. She did help.

[01:12:20] In some very big ways. Yeah. I mean, she was the catalyst. Yeah. She sacrificed. She had to sacrifice in order to. Do the right thing. Do the right thing. And that's not an easy thing to do. I mean, she was very much driven by power and. She gave it. Yeah. She gave it all up.

[01:12:47] She will. Probably will. Okay. So my next point. Is what I'm calling. Janine's happy ending. Because this brought me so much joy. After everything Janine has been through in this entire series. Her persecution.

[01:13:16] Being at Jezebel's. Being at Jezebel's. Being a handmaid. Being, you know, manipulated and. Lydia and, you know. Just going through everything that Janine has gone through. And persevering this entire time. At the beginning of the episode. We don't know even where Janine is. And I'm not sure how they lost track of her. Because the last thing that I remember is everyone was getting unhooked.

[01:13:46] From the hanging area. So somehow. Janine ended up. I guess with the guardians. Or the eyes. The eyes. So it marks. So I wasn't quite sure how that happened. And they don't really elaborate on that. We just know that she's one of the people that's behind enemy lines. And so we don't really know. And I was for a little bit worried. That maybe we weren't going to get any resolution with Janine's story.

[01:14:16] Um. But they wake June up in the middle of the night. Take her out to. I think it's Millersville is the name of the place. Yes. Which is close to the border. Yeah. Of Rhode Island. So we know it's. It's South. Millerville. And. We wait. And then we see. A woman in a big red. You know. A handmaid's garb. Get basically thrown onto the ground.

[01:14:46] And. June realizes it's Janine. And all I could think at first was. Oh. So Janine's alive. Okay. That's good. I'm glad. I wanted her to make it out of this. But that wasn't even the. The biggest thing. We see Naomi. And Lydia come. And Naomi gives. Angela. A.K.A. Charlotte. Back to Janine. So Janine.

[01:15:15] Not only survives. She gets her daughter. Yeah. My question to you is. Why do you think. This is the end of the series. We have. Jason. We have to have some happiness. Okay. Some closure. I mean. They have to give us something. This even more belongs in a pitch meeting. Naomi. The opposite of everything she's ever done here. And it made no sense. I. I disagree. I disagree. Of course. Because you just want to say everything. No. Wendy.

[01:15:45] I'm wondering if you have a similar opinion than I do. So. Tell me what you. So. Why do you think. I did think. That it wasn't clear. Right. It wasn't clear. Why she was doing it. And so. Those were the questions. I was going to ask you. Is why was she. Doing it. Like. Did. Did Lawrence. Finally. Kind of rub off on her. And as we. Saw. Her good. You know. Lawrence saying goodbye to her.

[01:16:13] And I do think he knew it was probably goodbye. You know. He was talking about reading to her. And that they're her parents. And. They lived together for some time. And. It had to be. I mean. Naomi was a lot of things. But she wasn't stupid. It. It had to. She had to realize that. Lawrence was a kind man. That he was progressing. That he didn't believe. In all of the Gilead things. And I was just wondering. Like.

[01:16:42] Did that influence her decision? I think that's the idea. But then. They really just. Seem to make a point. This season of. Having her be the one. Always to step up. Be like. Well you're not doing it. The Gilead way. And. These handmaids are yicky. And you. We need to listen. You know. You should be lucky. That you have a good husband. And this and that. And this and that. And then she's like. Okay. Lawrence got to me. Here's your baby. That the only thing. That I've cared about. This whole series. Is getting this baby. And getting rid of this. Stupid handmaid. And now I'm going to.

[01:17:11] Give the baby back. That. I don't know. It just doesn't. Really make that much sense to me. And I also don't understand. Why these two guardians. Came and just like. Dumped Janine down. And then you have. Lydia. And Naomi. Coming up behind. Gently coddling this baby. And handing it over. I'm like. Why were you so rough. With Janine. If you. Are all good guys. Guys. There. I don't think they were good guys. No. They were. They were just doing. Somebody obviously pulled strings.

[01:17:40] To get them there. And. You know. I don't think they were the good guys. No. Yeah. Lydia may still have had some pull. Yeah. Yeah. Because the eyes had released her. Remember. June said she has nine lives. Yes. So. And. I also thought like. Part of Naomi. And again. I get that we're. Making a leap of faith. With Naomi.

[01:18:11] Getting somewhere. That. We didn't see. That. Evolution happen. In this show. But. A little bit. When she accepted the book. At the end there. You know. Yes. She did. Yes. And. And then like. She went through. This whole revolution. You know. That happened. And she lost her husband. Again. And. I thought maybe.

[01:18:40] She has to be thinking about. What's going to happen to Angela. In six years. Maybe. You would think so. Yeah. I mean. She should have been thinking about that. The whole time. Well. You didn't really have any choices. Like. What was her choice? What. Be nicer? Yes. I mean. I mean. They might have taken Angela away from her. Yes. That's the thing. She's now an unmarried woman. That's a good point. Yeah. So she may have felt that Angela's best. Mm-hmm.

[01:19:09] If she loved Angela. Her best opportunity. Was to get her out of Gilead. Because. She would be taken away from her. And God knows what would happen. That's a good point. So. I also. That's my thought on it. Anyway. That. It's. A little weird that. Aunt Lydia was just released. By the eyes. Given that she was about to be hanged. For treason. She may have friends with the eyes. Slippery. Because all the people that wanted to hang out Lydia.

[01:19:39] Are dead. They went bye-bye. Yeah. On. The airplane. Okay. You know. The highway to hell. It's like that. The airplane to hell. Skyway to hell. I don't know. I also thought that Lawrence. Would have loved. That happy ending for Angela. Absolutely. Oh yeah. He wanted her to cut. Make. Pictures with lots of colors. And all of these things. And.

[01:20:08] He didn't want her to grow up in Gilead. No. He did not. And I liked Lydia and June's interaction. Lydia. First of all. Calls the baby Charlotte. Which is good. And. June says. Thank you Lydia. Blessed is the woman who does not work in stride with the wicked. I think that's what she said. Walk in stride with the wicked. Walk in stride. And. And. Lydia. Thank you. And Lydia said. Under his eye. Dear. And. It just brings it home that she's still devout.

[01:20:38] But now. I think she's anti-Gilead. She knows that. They don't. Practice the same kind of. Godliness that she does. They don't at all. They're wicked. Blessed is the fruit that robs things from the inside. It took her a long time to get there. Yep. It did. She got there. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Go ahead Jason. So Emily. Yes. Oh my gosh.

[01:21:08] I'll be so excited. The cameo. The return that none of us. I mean. I forgot about her. But. Oh I didn't never forgot about her. Alexis Bladel had said she was never going to be on it again. So. Them keeping that under wraps. Mm hmm. Incredible. And it was like. Yeah. Here she is. And it was great. I mean. She sees her there. She says this store used to be an ice cream store.

[01:21:36] They had this amazing salted caramel. That'd be cool if it reopened. Wouldn't it? And. That's a call back in season one. She said. That used to be an ice cream place. They had this amazing salted caramel. That stuff was better than sex. Which. Was a turning point in. Emily and. June's relationship where they started to. Trust each other and. Be able to reveal how anti Gilead they were. And everything like that. And then. Just to remind people in case you didn't remember. The last we saw her.

[01:22:06] She was one of the women who ran Fred down. In no man's land. With June. Yep. And. Then we find out that she fled. Canada. To continue fighting in Gilead. So she left her wife. Sylvia. And her son Oliver behind. And now we find out she was in Bridgeport. She was part of the rebellion. She was a Martha to a commander. Who she considered a friend. And. And Oliver and her wife are still in Canada. And she said they're the reason I'm. I'm fighting.

[01:22:36] And yeah. She left the show. Because. The actor. Alexis. Blydell. Blydell. Yeah. Blydell. Wanting to leave. At the time she just said. After much thought. I felt I had to step away from the Handmaid's Tale. At this time. I'm forever grateful to Bruce Miller. For writing such truthful and resonant scenes. For Emily. And to Hulu and GM. The cast and crew for their support. And she never really said exactly why. She left. But it sounded like it was. Just not. She didn't want to be in that headspace.

[01:23:06] I know. She did say at times. That it was really hard. To play that role. And have to be this. Powerless woman. Treated so badly. And everything. But I just loved how they're walking along the wall. June and Emily. Like where they used to walk together as handmaids. They see guardians strung up. I mean that was just like a Tuesday for them. See a couple guardians strung up. And then. But then yeah. All the. Where those. Ex handmaids. Wrote their names. My name is Kylie. My name is Gwen. My name is Mike. And then.

[01:23:36] Like you said Wendy. Sentiments of freedom. Like just the beginning. And resist. And free. And that was just really great. It was all so. I don't really have much insight about it. I just thought it was really good. Now I do think it inspired. June. Or at least. Reconfirmed to her. That she needed to keep fighting too. And I think. In the show. Emily was just a few paces ahead of June. Like Emily was like. Okay.

[01:24:05] What we just did to Fred. Felt really good. And I need to continue fighting. And June just wasn't there yet. Yeah. Yeah. And I thought they played that off really good. Just about Nick. There was no. The series is over. There's no reveal about any details of exactly what Nick did in the early days of the Gilead takeover or anything like that.

[01:24:30] And I really don't think we needed it because we know he's a guy who rose up from nothing to be commander of Gilead. And to do that you'd have to do things like enforce harsh discipline, oversee or benefit from the oppression of women, spy and inform on others, coordinate purges and disappearances among other things. And Gilead doesn't reward kindness or resistance. It rewards loyalty, obedience, and usefulness to the regime.

[01:24:59] And so his promotion to commander implies he demonstrated these qualities that Gilead values. And I think they had June's mother and her husband refer to Nick as a Nazi for a reason this season because he's in this regime. And so I think we, I think kind of the point with Nick is we already knew enough the whole time. And, you know, he could have made a choice at the end there.

[01:25:24] Uh, I think, um, he could have decided to leave Gilead, you know, but he didn't. So if he had, then he could try to make amends for everything, but he didn't. He chose Gilead. Yeah. Yeah. And I see a lot of back and forth online about, you know, a lot of people want to think that he, no, that actually showed that he was with May Day. And I, I don't agree.

[01:25:52] Um, I think he chose Gilead. And if I was going to give a criticism to the show, not this episode, but the show in general is, I think they didn't give us enough of Nick one way or the other to make it real clear. So he remained an ambiguous figure in, in my opinion.

[01:26:14] I mean, I, I think it was good to do that because what am I trying to say? Like what we already know should be enough. You know what I mean? Like we, we shouldn't have to see an actual, like, I mean, we saw him shoot Putnam in the head, but we don't like Putnam.

[01:26:39] So that's fine, but he, to get to be a commander, you're going to have to do some things in support of Gilead. And that should be enough. In my opinion, we don't, we shouldn't need to have to see him doing those things that we know he had to do. Yeah. I get what you're saying. You're saying they shouldn't have needed to spoon feed us. Yeah. I'm just saying. But I feel like we wanted to know Nick more one way or the other. And we didn't.

[01:27:09] Okay. But I mean, I do think it's clear that he made his choices probably several seasons ago, you know? And he wasn't going to waver from that. He, like, I think his highest priority was June and his second priority was Gilead. Yeah. And when June, and so maybe that's enough for some people to be like, well, yeah, so it's June's fault. I've seen that rationale. That's a good rationale.

[01:27:37] And I don't even know if his priority was Gilead as much as. Himself. He seemed weak. Yeah. He seemed weak. Yeah. He seemed like, yeah, I could go do that. But then that would be a lot. I don't know. Well, I mean, like he said, you know, if before this I was nothing, I would have been an Uber driver. And I loved when Renee called in and said that would have been preferable to be an Uber driver. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When she said it, I was like, oh, yeah, that's actually totally true.

[01:28:06] There's no debating that. But no, he wanted to be someone of importance. And so he chose to be in this immoral situation. I don't even know if he wanted it as much as he just let himself be swept along because he was too weak to stop it all. You don't think that you need to actively work to be promoted from a driver to a... No, I do. No, I do. I agree with you. It's active. Yeah.

[01:28:32] Yeah, but it was like little steps that just came in front of him that he took. I don't think he set out to be a commander in Gilead, but he wasn't strong enough to stop it from happening. He just went along with it. I mean, we're not agreeing then because I don't think any guy that's in Gilead, if you don't do anything, then you'll just be a commander. No, I don't. I don't think he didn't do anything. Yeah. I don't. I think he did things. Yeah.

[01:29:02] Well, we know that he did. We know he did things because back in that episode a couple of seasons ago when June was trying to get him. Yeah. I think it was the EU to accept him. They were not wanting to do it because of something he had done. And then they never built up on that, you know? I wanted them to. Which they had, yes. That's where I think Daphne and I are coming from. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of wish that we'd gotten a little bit. I kind of get that. But like I say, I think, I don't think, oh, he just got swept along.

[01:29:32] I think he actively sought out a position of power. And that's why he liked Gilead because it gave him that opportunity. And it didn't matter that it was an immoral society to him. What mattered was that he got to be in this position of power. And as June says, Nick reaped what he sowed. He led a violent and dishonest life. And so, yeah. And that to me sounds like she knew more than we did. You know what I mean? Yeah. Which would be okay. I don't know, man. I know enough to know that.

[01:30:04] I've always thought that about him. I was kind of waiting to find out. Like to find out more, I think. And it never really happened. Like if you see, like, you know, there's a Nazi. And you're like, I'm not sure he's a good or a bad person. I need to see him doing some Nazi things first. No, I know he was wrong. I mean, that seemed obvious.

[01:30:32] I mean, you know, it's the whole I'm just following orders. Even if that's your excuse, you're wrong. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Jason, do you have anything you want to add to that? No, I guess not. I mean, ding, ding, ding. I mean, we pretty much agree about it. I guess the only thing we don't agree with is whether we needed more from him. Yeah.

[01:30:55] Actually, I think I kind of did want more up until now where I'm sort of like, I think it's actually kind of interesting that we didn't get more because it's like, why did we want more? Why did we need more? We didn't need more. We already knew enough. Towards the end of the last season, I felt like they weren't. This was it. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

[01:31:20] So, do we want to talk about any notes that we have? I got a couple. So, I'll start. I want to just say, Commander Toello brings a whole new meaning to the word commander. Oh, yeah. Commander Toello. That is taking Gilead commander, flipping it on its head and making it mean something completely different. I was okay with that for sure.

[01:31:50] And I'm going to assume that was a raise, a promotion. I hope so. Yeah. Well, he's going to need it if he's courting Serena, you know? Yep. They should really change the name of that, change that title to something else. Yes, I agree. No, I think sometimes, in some cases, you need to reclaim something. Reclaim it. That's true. To make it have a different memory. It's like the flag. So many people think the flag belongs to MAGA, but no. No.

[01:32:19] That flag is mine, too. Yeah. Wendy, what's your, what, um, I have more notes, but I thought we could just kind of go. My only note that we haven't covered is that I saw someone online say something that I thought was absolutely hilarious. They said that June keeps killing all of Serena's husbands. And after each one, boom, there's Mark Toello.

[01:32:50] It is true. I know. That is true. That is true. What if she marries Mark? Then what happens? Uh-oh. Now, Mark, Mark is, he's protected in stainless steel bubble wrap. Yes. That was it for me. My only note is I can't believe Luke survived. I'm, I'm totally shocked. And Maura. Yeah. And Janine. I know.

[01:33:18] Like, I said goodbye to all of them. Hmm. I thought we were going to lose so many. Mm-hmm. So many. I'm shocked we didn't, but I'm relieved. I'm not sure about Luke. Luke. Yeah. I'm relieved, honestly, about it. You wanted Luke to die? Is that what you're saying, Jason? No. I was fearful. Yeah. So I just have a couple of little things.

[01:33:41] Um, one, I read a comment on our Spotify feedback that prompted me to want to say we really have to give big props to Adam Taylor, who did the scoring for these episodes. Because for me personally, when I'm watching something, the score has a lot to do with the emotion that it evokes in me.

[01:34:10] And he killed it. Like, killed it, killed it, killed it. Did he do it the whole time? Do you know? Yeah. I'm not sure. I just know that, um... I saw that Spotify comment, too. But yeah, the music is really good on this show. I agree. Yeah. So good. Um, and Elizabeth Moss directed this episode. Mm-hmm. So imagine you're starring in this episode and you're directing this one and the last one, the last two episodes of your series, you're directing them.

[01:34:39] And I, it blows me away to think that she did that. And even their use of contemporary songs, they did it sparingly, but when they did it, it was just so good. Powerful. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It was very powerful. Um, I loved, too, the opening where they kind of fly over Boston a little bit and you see Fenway Park.

[01:35:04] And I know I brought it up a couple of times from the episode in season two that terrified me, freaked me out. And then last week when we thought we were going to have another hanging and it took me back to that again. It was cool to go overhead and see that.

[01:35:21] And then have that voiceover talking about the win and moving forward and it being kind of empowering and hopeful, which I think we definitely needed after we've seen everything that's gone down in this series and what's going on. And then one more quote from Serena.

[01:35:48] Um, I am become death destroyer of worlds. I guess I've helped Boston fall twice now. Mm-hmm. She's right. Um, and my last comment is really, I really, the, the June Holly discussion that we got when they were at the remembrance or the missing wall.

[01:36:13] I, that was such a long time coming and I didn't know I needed it until it happened. So yeah, that, that. I love that actress. She's so good. Cherry Jones. She's, she's wonderful.

[01:36:59] Welcome back, Jason. You have some news for us. Yeah. Just a couple of quick things. The rap talked with showrunners, Eric Tuchman and Yelan Chang about Nick and Lawrence's endings. Um, I think I'll skip the Nick stuff. I feel like we've talked about him enough. Ad nauseum. About Lawrence. Eric Tuchman said that the writers pitched Lawrence's death to Bradley Whitford in early 2023. He says we had already figured out what we wanted to do with commander Lawrence.

[01:37:28] And we went out to lunch with Bradley and told him what we were thinking, not knowing how he was going to react. Fortunately, he embraced the idea. I think he really sparked to it. It felt like an honest ending and a noble ending for his character. And the other showrunner, Yelan Chang added, he loved it and he was relieved. He was so happy because he was worried about him. He was worried about where we might take Lawrence. And he was afraid that Lawrence might turn out to be more evil. So we love that there was like a moment of redemption for him, which is really nice to hear.

[01:37:57] I think if, if, if I was an actor, I, I couldn't be happier with that ending. I mean, like that's phenomenal. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Because, um, you know, I criticize actors sometimes who want their characters to be heroes. But in this case, Lawrence always wrote that line and for him to sacrifice his own life for something good.

[01:38:24] It's just a good feeling because man, he really paid a cost there, but, um, he did the right thing. I remember, I think early on in his character arc, I was really mad at him and critical of him when you find out how much involvement he had. And I was like, no, he could, he can never be okay for me, but he certainly grew on me. Through action. I feel like he did. I mean.

[01:38:53] His involvement with some of what June was able to orchestrate, like it would not have gone off without his help. Yeah. Absolutely. And he was trying to change it from the inside, but he realized it wasn't going to work. Yeah. I mean, when he found out they were going to put him on the wall. Yeah. Yeah. And then the other item I have, uh, Elizabeth Moss talked with billboard magazine about using the Taylor Swift song. Look what you made me do in episode nine.

[01:39:22] She said, I've been wanting to use a Taylor song for so many years on the show. And we finally found the perfect spot for a track from her. And I'm so glad we waited because there could not be a more perfect song for a more perfect moment. Taylor's been such an inspiration to me personally as a Swifty myself. And I think I can speak for Yvonne Strahovski, um, Serena and our entire cast as well, who are all Swifties. It's such an honor to be able to use her music in the final episodes of our show.

[01:39:50] I said to my editor, editor, Wendy, I really want to find a place for a Taylor track in the last two episodes of the show. And we wanted to find a music cue for the opening of nine and all the credit goes to Wendy for picking this track for this moment. Oh, I loved it. And, um, I've seen online lots of pictures of the cast at Taylor Swift concerts and wearing Taylor Swift hoodies and phenomenal.

[01:40:17] Especially given the comments that our insane president has made about her. Yeah. She's not hot. Whatever, dude. He's just insane. Yeah. He's just an idiot. Yeah. I, you know, there's moments in movies and TV where you hit and outside of that, where you hear a song and it takes you exactly like to a point. Mm hmm.

[01:40:45] This song, whenever I hear it from now on is going straight to that point. Absolutely. I'm going to picture Serena hiding behind a tree while this handmade. Yeah. Yeah. So like, it just, yeah, it's so empowering. Yep. Yeah. Okay.

[01:41:05] So let's talk a little bit about listener feedback because we have not, we didn't include listener feedback last week and we're not including listener feedback on this episode. It's because we've gotten a lot of listener feedback and we've decided to do a couple of listener feedback episodes to catch up on all the comments that everyone has been sending in, which we really appreciate. We want to do it justice.

[01:41:33] So we're going to record them in a separate episode. And I'm looking forward to talking about it after everybody else has. Yes. Packed us up. And, and when we do listener feedback episodes on other podcasts, just by themselves there, it's a different feel because that's all we're there for. So we can really slow down and give it its due and everything. Although like Daphne said, it's probably going to be two episodes because there's so much. Yeah. We have a lot.

[01:42:04] It's a lot of feedback. So I think it's going to be like, it's covering three episodes of the show. So eight, nine and 10. And there's a lot to say about those episodes because I feel like that's when things really kicked into gear. And so we'll have a lot to talk about and be able to have the time to, to react to what we're reading instead of. We, we can really give it the justice that.

[01:42:32] I'm happy to live in this afterglow of this series for another couple weeks. Yeah, me too. I'm, I'm really happy with where it ended. I really have been on a high since I watched it. Yeah. I wasn't sure where they were going to go. Me too. I was scared. I was really scared. I was afraid of losing people. Not, not that we didn't, we did, but, um, more.

[01:43:00] I was just worried this show means so much to me. And, you know, I'm, I'm so committed to the source material and I think they did it justice. And then some. I look back to, I wasn't even watching this show until three seasons ago.

[01:43:18] I crammed it in a month to be able to podcast on it and to be able to come to the end of it, having watched everything and feel the way I do. It's, it's actually pretty cool. Honestly. Oh yeah. I've been able to watch it because I couldn't watch it. Like I wouldn't let myself watch the first few seasons because it was kind of triggering.

[01:43:45] Even in the beginning of this season, I was so despondent about the current administration. And I was like, I don't know if I'm going to be able to handle this, but I don't want anybody else to do it. I need to do it. And it, it really helped me. Yeah. Me too, Wendy. I feel the same way. I just kept thinking, how am I going to do this? How am I going to cover this show?

[01:44:11] And when we came up with the idea of, well, let's do it our way. We'll cover the show and we'll talk about the things that relate to or connect to things that are actually happening so that it feels like it's much deeper than just a show discussion. It's something that might help other people like deal with how they're feeling. Yeah.

[01:44:38] Group therapy and activism kind of. Yeah. I know that there are listeners who probably are not listening anymore. I get it. But I don't regret us making this decision at all. I think we needed to do it. So I appreciate anyone who stayed with us. We really appreciate it. Yeah. And thanks for all the positive feedback. It's been really amazing.

[01:45:05] I mean, the discussions in the Mayday group has been really neat. Yeah. Thank you to everybody. All right. That's our show. Thanks for listening, everyone.

[01:45:33] Next up, our feedback episodes for this season of Handmaid's Tale. If you want to write in or send us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com. If you do a voice message, try to keep it to two to three minutes. But we want to hear what you have to say. Yeah. And we just want to thank you guys. I mean, we kind of just did.

[01:46:02] But thanks to everyone who followed along with us. It's always, when you get to the end, it's kind of sad. But there's another show, The Testament's coming out. So it's not quite. It's almost like a continuation of the same thing. So I know not everyone listening is going to continue on or maybe you're not so sure. But hopefully people will at least give it a try and see if you're into it.

[01:46:31] Then you can listen along with us and keep it all going. But whether you are or not, thanks for following along with us. I'm glad that a lot of you seem to enjoy it. We enjoyed having you listen and write in and interact with us. That's like the only reason why we do it is because you guys are listening. And we always at Podcastica try to make it super interactive so that it feels like a big community going through this together.

[01:47:00] And this is a great show to do that with. It was great. And when I, you know, I didn't start watching Handmaid's Tale at the very beginning, but pretty close because there was so much buzz around it. And it was a weird buzz. Like this show was something weird going on on this show. And I had no idea what the story was about. You know, there were like skits on Saturday Night Live and stuff. And I'm like, I got to check this out. And it was just so well done, but so disturbing.

[01:47:26] And then we had Kristen doing the podcast, but she had to stop. And then Diana and Lizzie do it. But then they decided they didn't want to do it. And I'm like, I really want to keep going with this. And so I decided to jump in on it myself. But I was nervous about doing that because I don't know if you guys knew this, but I'm a male. So, um... What? You're a dude.

[01:47:53] Yeah, just, I don't know if that's clear, but, uh, yeah, no, it's been so good. I'm so glad that I decided to do it and thank all you guys for making it a great experience for all of us. And you know what? I mean, yeah, we're going to be doing the feedback episodes, but even with the Testaments, that won't be until next year. So you're going to need some other shows to watch. And, uh, what should people watch in the meantime that we cover? Uh, Squid Game's coming back next month, which is a great thing. That's exciting.

[01:48:24] Pick me up. People should definitely check out The Last of Us. That is wrapping up the same week as The Handmaid's Tale, which... Too much in one week. I know. Um, I have... I didn't realize The Last of Us was only seven episodes. Whoa! I thought for sure it was at least eight or ten. Yeah. And so, like, I didn't know it until I got on the feedback episode with Jason, and he's like, nope, next week's the finale. If you guys aren't watching that and you don't like,

[01:48:52] I don't want, that's zombies, I don't care about that. If you like The Handmaid's Tale, I think you're going to like The Last of Us. It's a really emotional, character-driven... It is. There's... So good. Zombies are background. Yeah. I have to also... I don't watch it, but... Everyone I know that watches Andor has loved it, and... Right here. So I have to give a... Have to give a plug for that. Yeah. These are all shows that we cover on our podcasts. Yeah. And...

[01:49:22] And we just heard Yellow Jackets! Yes! Before! Oh, yeah. That's great. Yeah. Such a relief. One of the three of us are on the podcast with any... Yep. ...we miss podcasting with. And we're going to do an episode on the Yellow Jackets podcast about... Society of the Snow. Yeah. I realized while we're recording this, this is the first time that I have recorded a long-term

[01:49:50] series finale for Podcastica. Oh, wow. No way. I didn't know that. It feels weird. Yeah. I mean, I did the one season of Skeleton Crew, but Peck and I pretty much knew that that was probably going to be it. But this is like... First time for me, too. Yeah. It feels weird that the ending of characters that are connected with it... It's kind of like, what comes after this? I know. A break. I know.

[01:50:20] A break comes. And I think even Testaments, like, I'm going to do it and I'm sure I'm going to love it. Yeah. But it's not the same. And I do feel... I am in the feels about this show coming to an end. The best show in the world. Yeah. I think I'm... Honestly, I think I'm glad that we're going to get a break until Testaments come out. Yeah. So that I can kind of decompress from how I feel right now.

[01:50:49] So when that comes, I'll have read the book because we're going to do it as a book club. But I'll have a chance to, like, kind of open myself up to that world because this world is special. I feel like June... June was not a perfect person, but she is someone who fought really hard.

[01:51:13] And I always appreciate that about people that are willing to do what they have to. And I've talked about this before, but the novel is really just this novelette. It's just this first-person journal that takes place over really just a matter of weeks.

[01:51:36] And it ends with you not knowing, is June being taken to her execution or is she being taken to freedom? You don't know. And this show blew that book up in the best way possible and then landed this incredible ending and this arc for these characters.

[01:51:58] And I'm so grateful for that because this is a novel that I just grew up loving and was very important to me and probably is, you know, why I think the way I think about many things. I wanted to ask, did the podcast ever cover the movie? No. I've seen the movie. The 90s? The 90s movie. Yeah. With Natasha Richardson. Yeah. Playing June.

[01:52:27] Robert Duvall. It's pretty, the acting's a little stiff. Yeah. Things were very different back then when it came to storytelling. Even like in movies. It actually follows the novel more strictly than the series did. Yeah. But I think the series made changes that made it better to be in a visual medium. Yeah. I think so too. Yeah. Based on seeing, based on watching. Yeah.

[01:52:56] You mentioned you're going to do the Testaments Book Club. Yes. So anyone can get in on that, right? Just by June. Absolutely. Facebook group. Join, yeah. Join the Handmaid's Tale Mayday Facebook group. You can find a link in our show notes. And my goal is to get it started maybe by mid-June. Take a couple weeks to kind of decompress from Handmaid's Tale ending.

[01:53:23] But yeah, there was a lot of interest from people who had already read the book and those who hadn't. And so we'll just come together and talk about it. We'll figure out how much time we want to take to go through it and be able to talk about it. And yeah, I think it's going to be a lot of fun. It's just $100 a person. So it'll be great. No. No. Just kidding.

[01:53:52] All right, that's our show. Thanks for listening. Rage is a gift from God. It's meant to be shared with the most deserving.