The Testaments S1E7 "Commitment"

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmm. Have you given any thought to your future? Room service have a sundae in the menu. I'm thinking that'll be on my near future. I mean, do you feel like you're living up to your full potential? It's not your fault. Society has discarded you. It's forced you to fend for yourself. In Gilead, women are valued and cherished. They're respected.

[00:00:27] I heard women are kept as sex slaves. And what about here? How are women treated? Think about why you've been told that. If women here knew that they'd be treated like gold in Gilead, they would all want to live there.

[00:00:57] Everybody, welcome to our podcast. I'm Daphne. And I'm Wendy. And I'm Jason. And this is The Handmaid's Tale Podcast, The Testaments Edition. This week, we're covering The Testaments, Season 1, Episode 7, Commitment. Commitment. And this season is flying by, isn't it? It feels like we just started. It is. Yeah. And we're well over halfway through.

[00:01:23] And we just wanted to mention that if you guys are enjoying hearing us talk about The Testaments, that maybe you'd like to hear us on some other podcasts too. We usually mention, sometimes we mention these at the end, but we thought we'd mention them up front just to make sure you guys heard it. So, Wendy is about to go back on House of the Dragon because it was just announced that House of the Dragon is coming back when? June 21st.

[00:01:53] Quick. Sooner than I thought. Sunday night. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Yeah. So, that's Dragon cast. And that's Wendy and Renny and Veronica doing an amazing job. Daphne has her baby, which is what Daphne? Run for your lives. We just celebrated 250 episodes.

[00:02:20] We're coming back in May with the season 11 and it'll be off to a great start. I'm not going to tease what the movie is, but it's going to be fun. Super excited. Six years I've been doing run for your lives as of July. Yeah. It's crazy. Daphne has this really great co-host, Paik, who's just an awesome guy. Yes. And you guys talk about horror and disaster movies and things like that.

[00:02:49] Plus, you have an occasional fun idea for an episode. We do. What are some of those? So, sometimes we'll do like a chat with us where we just basically chat about what we're doing outside of podcasting. Like, if I'm in Texas, we've gone to a couple of pay-per-views for wrestling because we're both wrestling fans.

[00:03:10] We'll also do like a, the top five movies that scared us really bad, like when we were kids. So, we'll do that. So, we come up with different things like that. Do you do like outtakes sometimes? Sometimes. Yes. I keep track of outtakes. Um, I've been doing that so far. I've got a whole bunch for another episode of that. Yeah.

[00:03:35] Whatever pops into our heads, we'll, we'll take a break from covering a movie just to talk about, uh, something else. Just to give it a break. Or we'll do an interview. Like, we ended our last season with our Run for Your Lives awards. And we also talked to Finn Carter who played Rhonda LeBeck in Tremors. And Tremors is a really big movie for us because we started the podcast. That was episode one.

[00:04:05] Then every season we would end with a Tremors movie until we ran out of them. Mm-hmm . So, we're hoping to do some more interviews. I've got some feelers out. I've reached out to some potential special guests. And we're trying to get those on the books. That's cool. A ton of fun. I, yeah, I meant to mention the first one I meant to mention too is Yellow Jackets WTF because all three of us are on that one. And we love the show Yellow Jackets.

[00:04:33] We have our, uh, another cohost Penny on that one with us. And that's coming back probably at the end of this year or early next year, more likely. Yeah. We think for the final season, the fourth and final season. And that's just been a great podcast for us. Yeah. So much fun to cover. Great show. It has. Great show. Yeah. If you haven't checked that out, we recommend it highly. Yeah.

[00:04:57] I'm glad that they're ending it with season four because I think that as long as they follow along to what they've been doing, it's going to be a great season. Yeah. Yeah. I'd rather them end it now versus dragging it out for multiple seasons and have the quality go downhill. So. I want them to stick the landing, but if they don't, then we could just say it was a crash landing and it's still appropriate for that show. True. True. Totally true.

[00:05:23] My, for my things, I have a long running, uh, recently renamed the walking dead cast where we've covered everything walking dead. And we're in the middle of a long rewatch of that show now. And I have my other podcast wax episodic, where I cover a bunch of different shows like alien earth, uh, welcome to dairy pluribus. You guys might've seen that in my coast, Karen love that, uh, fallouts. And we're currently doing severance.

[00:05:54] So that's most of the main things that all of us are doing and you can find all of it at podcast.com. If you finish up with the testaments and you're like, Oh, I miss those guys. Well, there's where you can find more. Well, that brings us to talking about this TV show. The testaments will get back to that. Um, what did you guys think about this episode? I mean, I can start. I think it moved the story along.

[00:06:25] It was a good episode, not my favorite of the season, but I think it was a good episode. I think that we got some information in this episode that we didn't have and it moves things in a way that, um, I think might pay off a little bit more later. Mm hmm. I think we see the girls in more desperate circumstances as, as we get closer and closer to their commitment.

[00:06:55] It, they're more on the edge. Like we saw both Agnes and Becca and, and, and Daisy really also like they're all on the edge. Yeah. And it feels like we're building up to something. It's like, it's nothing like this, but it reminds me of just the old Batman series came into my head where they'd have cliffhangers and they're like strapped to a table and there's a bug saw coming for them. It's like that. And there's no way out. There's no way out.

[00:07:24] Robin save the girls. Um, I liked it. I thought it was enjoyable. It was kind of fun in that fucked up Gilead way. And, uh, it was great to see how Daisy got there, you know, I was hoping they would show us more of that and they did. So I was glad to see that, but yeah, there's lots of seeds for future conflict being set up here. Lots of conflicting relationships being maneuvered into place and things like that.

[00:07:53] Yeah, it was definitely, I think getting more intense in that there's like a countdown going, um, because there's only so much time. We're really getting a look at the process for the girls going from the ball and now to these suitor meetings.

[00:08:14] And then I'm assuming weddings or whatever the wedding is going to look like, because I've been thinking about this a lot lately with this show. We saw the mass wedding. Remember Nick's wedding where there were like a bunch of commanders all getting married at the same time. And I'm wondering if this is going to be similar to that where they're all getting married at the same place, but have things changed and now they're individual? Like, what does that look like?

[00:08:43] So I'm really interested in that. I forgot about that. These are the cream of the crop. So I'm imagining whatever happens will be quite ornate and public and big and fancy. Yeah. If it is all at once, you got to think it won't go perfectly if they feature it in this show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really building. I think this episode started.

[00:09:10] I mean, it's been building anyway, but I feel like this is the one that's going to that started the building up to the season finale, which is we have three episodes left. I can't. I can't believe it. I'm not really ready. I mean, it'll be like the graduate where Garth will run into Agnes's wedding and pull her away. Really? Agnes! Yes!

[00:09:35] Well, I mean, I think Wendy and I were right, Jason, last week when we said we were right that Garth was not going to end up in Agnes's. Yeah. I knew it was going to be Becca. You did? Oh, you didn't say that. Yes. I wish you had. I think I did. Oh, you did? Okay. I mean, when I saw it was Becca's, because I didn't hear you say that. And I'm like, I totally should have known that because that is the most effed up thing that could happen. Yep.

[00:10:05] I thought Becca or Jehoshabah. I thought one of those, you know, the person that like is kind of, I guess their enemy, the girls, our little group of the girls. It makes more sense that it would be Becca for the story because it's a love triangle. Becca loves Agnes. Agnes loves Garth. Yep. Garth doesn't love Becca, but you know, it just makes it really hard for everyone. Right.

[00:10:32] Well, too, I think this was a moment that we actually, there was a moment in this episode where we actually got to see Becca smile just a little bit. Mm-hmm. Because there were things that Garth said where it, for the first time, this poor girl who has everyone making every decision for her and nobody cares about what she thinks.

[00:10:59] He said he, her, like mentioned her happiness. Mm-hmm. And she's not full of the huge, yeah. And she could be near her family and friends. Yeah. And seem to care about, yeah, what her experience. He was thinking about her and she's not used to that. And he doesn't have the swagger and the hubris that the other commanders have. Right. Because he's more humble because he's not even a commander yet. And I mean, also, he's not, he's anti-Gilead.

[00:11:28] We, she doesn't know that yet, but he could be the best of all the bad options. You know, any option is bad for her, but he could be the best one because maybe he won't even be interested in any of it at all. And it'll just be for show. And then she can do whatever she wants within the confines of that arrangement, you know? Yeah. Yeah. That makes any sense. Awesome. So let's move into some points.

[00:11:57] Uh, who wants to go first? I'll go first. Let's start with the courtship process. Um, yeah, I was, I was kind of bummed not to see Garth in, in, um, her matches, but it, what happened totally made sense. It was a bummer for her. Of course, Paula was thrilled. And, uh, cause they're all commanders with status, which she seems to care about. But Agnes is just crushed.

[00:12:25] And that scene, it was such a great scene where you've got the three men laid out and she's like staring at these old men going, God, I'm going to have to spend the rest of my life with one of these men that I don't care about. And, uh, chase infinity played that so well, just like the blood drained out of her face. Meanwhile, Paula's got this big grin on her face.

[00:12:47] Um, I guess I thought the one reason why I thought Garth would be one of them is because Lydia seemed to make a point to bring Garth into the process because of what Agnes said. So I thought, why do that? If you're not going to then give her the choice. So I kind of wonder if Vidala interfered in that or something. Um, I don't know.

[00:13:11] I thought it was possible that Lydia and Garth could be, could know, maybe she knows who Garth is, you know? Mm-hmm. But even if she does, it just seemed weird that she wasn't going to include him. And then Agnes said, can you please include him? And then she did, but then didn't give him to her.

[00:13:32] Or, or maybe she's showing Agnes just like what she talked about so much in last week's episode about how they need to be hardened to this world. That's a good point. Yeah. Just, uh, I think that's probably what it is. Yeah. She's just like, all right, I'll bring him into the process, but you're not going to get to have him because you need to learn some hard lesson or something. Yep. Um, yep. So anyway, Paula wants Agnes to focus on impressing Commander Weston.

[00:14:01] And then Shunammite said he runs the eyes and had, uh, was married and his wife died. And that made me think about, um, Tabitha having died and, uh, Judd, uh, that that's no commander Judd. Did he have a wife before? Before Penny? I thought they said he did. So it's like kind of, uh, seems to be going around. These commanders keep losing their wives. Interesting. Yeah.

[00:14:30] Um, then there was this montage of the commanders, uh, visiting the girls, which was mostly just conversations between the parents and the commanders, almost like they're selling the girls, talking them up. The commanders being really creepy, right? Calling. Oh, very pleasing to the eye and well-bred. Meanwhile, they're like claring as they're sipping on their drink. Maddox was just revolting. Okay. Seeing him again was just.

[00:15:00] Yeah. Horrendous. And Mackenzie said about, uh, Agnes's adoptive father saying about what are the, right after you went out the door, he's insufferable, which just gives us that continuing impression that he does care about her psychological. Right. Yeah. Then, um, Garth visits Becca. We already talked about that. Then Weston visits Agnes. That actor seems familiar. I know I've seen him in something.

[00:15:30] His name is Reed diamond. Hmm. I recognized him right away. Um, I believe he was in a show called homicide life on the street. Um, yeah, he was in that. He's been Baltimore. He's been in. Yeah. He's been in so many different things. Like he's always very, very familiar looking. Yeah. He's one of those actors that's popped up everywhere. I feel like. Yeah. He was on better call Saul.

[00:15:59] He had one episode on that. Yeah. He's been in tons of things. So. So when he asks her, if there's anything she'd like to ask him, that was the first time. Any of the women, at least that we saw were invited to speak. Mm hmm. And then he said, she mentioned that he's been married before. And as soon as she said that I was like, oh, that is bad. It's even worse than spilling tea.

[00:16:28] And you know that she's doing it on purpose. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then he says, my wife died in childbirth. It was the worst day of my life. The day I lost my child. And I'm like, why didn't you say my wife and child? Exactly. I picked up on that as well. And I'm like, what? Okay. So you're basically saying your child. That's what matters. Children. Yeah. Not why.

[00:16:54] I wonder if Agnes was trying to make it so no one picked her. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Just sabotage the whole thing. She had to know that there's no way, even if Garth had been in her pool, they were never. Paula was never going to support Agnes and Garth. She's desperate. She has optimism bias. Yeah.

[00:17:24] And she's desperate. And I knew as soon as she said that, I'm like, Paula's going to be so mad at you. And then she just like threatened to hit her afterwards. And then, and then confronts her later and says, well, you're rebelling, but he likes to challenge and he still wants you. And she said, men like that. Enjoy a stubborn spirit. It's no fun breaking in a horse. That's already docile.

[00:17:49] And I'm just like, okay, you know that about this guy and you still want Agnes to go with him. Then that says all we need to know about her. Absolutely. Everything. This is where we get to really see Paula. Any of the facade that she has shown is like coming down. This is the Paula I was expecting. That's evil. That is the Paula. Yeah. What a threat to say to a child.

[00:18:18] It's, it's the, yeah, it's just the worst, like no, no coming back from that. Then, um, I also later just kind of related to this, um, in Canada when Daisy is studying materials on commanders and Weston comes up and she sees that he worked in Chris crypto and had a couple of restraining orders for domestic violence. And, you know, I zoomed in on his papers.

[00:18:43] You couldn't really see much, but there was something about a psychological screening and, uh, like emotional regulation or escalation. So it just sounds like he's an abuser and he likes it when women fight back. Mm hmm. And so that's this buzzsaw that's coming towards Batman. Like that's what's, uh, on the table for poor Agnes. And that's, that's, uh, terrifying. Yeah.

[00:19:11] We only saw her too, with two of the commanders, not the third one, just Weston, another one that they didn't name. And then, uh, uh, the third one we didn't see the other commander actually brought up right in front of her face about her. You know, her questionable birth. Right. Yeah. So it seems like everyone knows about that, that she came from.

[00:19:36] Um, and that was interesting to me because it's like, oh, it's impressive that she's managed to become so godly even after her, the circumstance of her birth or whatever. And I'm like, okay, that says to me that people know about June. At least they know something. And they framed it as, of course we know this, that her birth mother was a bad person. So I've been saying that, you know, Agnes has some kind of a story about her birth and she was embarrassed to talk about it with Daisy. We don't talk about that.

[00:20:05] So I think that's the story that she has that, you know, her mother was evil, but she's been given this great opportunity and she should make the most of it or something like that. And I think, um, she probably wrestles with that, but I think that she probably, there's a part of her that doesn't believe it. I don't know if they're necessarily saying they know about June.

[00:20:27] I think it's possible that, you know, there's the girls that age were either natural births from their mothers like Shunammite or they were taken and, and they're adopted. So I kind of took it as that. I didn't read any June into that. You know what I mean? I thought they knew.

[00:20:53] They may not know that June is her mother, but they know that. She was taken from, she was taken from her mother or I'm sure they would word it differently, but yeah, it's impressive that she's become able to become such a godly girl in spite of her conception. So that could mean a lot of things.

[00:21:14] And I totally did read into it, but it just that combined with when Daisy asked Agnes about her birth mother, she said, we don't talk about that or whatever, something like that. Anyway, it just makes me feel like there is. And then also when the ants were talking about what if the commanders find out who her mother was and, and Lydia's like, well, that's nothing to be ashamed of. So I do think there's a story about her parentage. Yeah.

[00:21:44] For all we know Weston knows who her mother is and he wants to want her because he wants to break her down. Right. I mean, I don't know. Or use her as collateral or something.

[00:22:01] I did think it was funny when Paula had the three commanders lying on the table and she put the one like up as if Agnes was a child and we're trying to draw attention to as I feel like that's something I would have done when my children were small, like trying to manipulate their choice. Yeah. And also she mentioned she, I, when I was a therapist, I dealt with girls like you and I'm like, Oh, I bet you were an awesome therapist. Yeah.

[00:22:31] We're learning more about her. Like all these, they seem like throwaway things at times, these lines, but when you start to piece it all together with the behavior and everything, it all, I think starts to make sense. Yeah. But I think what you can see is that to some extent, Paula's just not, she's not being so vicious for no reason.

[00:22:57] You can see like how much this process actually matters and reflects on them and how seriously it's taken, which is why, and I'm not defending her at all, but why there's so much emotion and volatility involved in it. Yeah.

[00:23:17] I mean, I always think it's a good idea to try to understand what's going on in every character's head, but also the fact that she seemed to delight in this guy is a sadist and pushing Agnes towards him. Just, I can't help but judge that so harsh. She's vindictive. Yeah. Yeah. I also get the impression that if Weston wants her, that that is the only thing that matters.

[00:23:43] It really doesn't matter what Agnes would want, even if she wanted one of the other commanders. I think Paula has pretty much decided Weston is, if he wants her, then that's who's going to get her. And even the way that she is with Agnes, the way Paula, just like, oh, you're such a rebel. I almost think if Agnes didn't want Weston, that would even push Paula more towards wanting, making her go with him. Yeah. Be a sadist. Yeah.

[00:24:13] I don't think Agnes gets a say, like there, nobody's even going to ask or, and her opinion is probably very unwelcomed. Maybe by Mackenzie, maybe. Yeah. But. Right. She should ask her dad. Maybe. Yeah. Send me to the sadist dad. Yeah.

[00:24:32] Well, and Paula was already on edge because she tried to inject herself interject herself into conversation about what was going on when Weston and Mackenzie were talking just a little bit about, you know, their work life. And Mackenzie kind of brushed her off right away. Like, I don't want to talk shop here. I don't want to talk about this.

[00:24:57] Paula was trying to talk like she was a person and not just a wife without a voice. And Mackenzie just shut that down right away. Yeah. So she's on edge with that. Yeah. The Housemate. The Housemate. Wenn sie wüsste, ist jetzt zum Streamen verfügbar. Was steckt wirklich hinter der perfekten Fassade? Einfach Spannung pur.

[00:25:26] Mit Sydney Sweeney und Amanda Seyfried. The Housemate. Der Thriller, über den alle sprechen. Jetzt ansehen. Nein. Ich hab kein Geld, um das neu zu kaufen. Aber Moment mal. Da fällt mir doch was ein. Ah, ja. Genau. Auxmoney.com. Wunschsumme eingeben?

[00:25:56] Mein Geld steht bereit. Wie einfach war das denn? Danke, Auxmoney. Auxmoney. Kredit. Einfach online. Okay. Okay. So I can go next. I wanted to talk a little bit about the matches that we learn about when the girls are sitting at the table.

[00:26:21] Um, we find out, and this was a really, uh, you could tell it was a difficult thing, especially because Becca, who, Becca doesn't want anything to do with any of this. Like, she does not want to be married. I don't know how much more she has to say it for people to like, accept that she does not want any part of this. She has tried.

[00:26:45] It seems like no one is, is, you know, no one's listening because they're not, it's not even Agnes. Not even Agnes. Yeah. Like, cause Agnes has grown up in this world where to be gay is to be a evil sinner gender traitor. And so she may have taken that on consciously or subconsciously and just doesn't even seem to recognize the possibility that her friend could be a gender traitor.

[00:27:15] So it doesn't enter into the equation for her. She's like, you're just being a baby. We all have to do this. Yeah. It's like, you want to still stay a little girl when this is what we're supposed to do. I want a husband and I want to have babies. And even before that, they're sitting at the table and Hulda's talking about her matches about one has a house on the ocean and the other one has a golf handicap.

[00:27:44] And then Agnes, Agnes, I mean, shoot a bite basically is there facilitating the conversation it's like, she's a talk show host and she's talking to each of them about who are your matches and dah, dah, dah. And Agnes gives. Yeah. She gives. You know, Agnes explains, you know, Pritzker, Weston and Riley and Shunamai is, is telling her, well, Weston runs the eyes. Like, this is a great thing for you.

[00:28:12] And, you know, he's not married because his wife died. And that's how Agnes finds out about his wife. Right. I'm like, please don't tell on Shunamai because she'll end up who knows what will happen. I mean, she'll be punished for gossiping. I'm sure. Sure. But she's, she's trying to play this up. Shunamai's telling Agnes, you know, you'll get to go to all the state functions. You'll have lots of Marthas.

[00:28:41] And Agnes is just thinking about Rosa. Like, she doesn't want to lose Rosa. And, you know, she comes up with the idea of, well, maybe Paula will give her to you. And all I could think is, okay, if this has to happen, let her do that so that Agnes will have someone with her that is kind to her because she, she deserves that. Also, it just really brings home how the Marthas are basically just enslaved. You know, they can be given gifts. Yeah, their property.

[00:29:11] Exactly. And then Becca goes through hers, which, uh, Maddox, which, no, he's, he's the one that got her drunk. A commander from the colonies that isn't named and commander Chape in which no one knows who that means until Agnes says that it's her guardian Garth. And Hulda thinks he's blessed in many respects, which, you know, basically.

[00:29:41] Um, Becca gets so upset and, and leaves because, you know, she doesn't want this. And Agnes tries to tell her that she's not mad at her. You know, I'm not, we don't get to choose our matches. This is God's decision. And Becca's very blunt and says, I didn't want any of this. This, I don't want to be married. I want to jump off a cliff. And then Agnes asks her not to marry Garth.

[00:30:09] She knows that Becca's choices are to marry Maddox. Right. Or a commander from the colonies. Maddox, who tried to basically seem like drug her to me, but at least get her drunk at the ball. Yeah. And a commander from the colonies and Garth.

[00:30:28] And I get why she's doing it because Agnes is in love with Garth and she can't, the thought of Garth with anyone else is too much for her to handle. And Becca is very much, well, I don't, I don't, she doesn't get a choice. Nobody cares what she wants. She doesn't want to marry anyone.

[00:30:53] And Becca also shares, she thought that Agnes was like her, meaning that she didn't want all of this. Like this isn't really what she wanted. She thought, I think, that they were kindred spirits in that way. I don't think that was before dreamy Garth came along. Oh yeah. Well, yeah. And, but Agnes is, I mean, Agnes lets it out. She wants a bit.

[00:31:22] She wants a husband. She wants babies. And then she's upset that Becca gets Garth as a match. Yeah. And I mean, I love that humanness of Agnes trying to say, I'm not mad at you for this. It's not your fault. You didn't have anything to do with it. But then that jealousy does come out. Well, you're going to get Garth, aren't you? Or something like that. Like she can't help it, you know? And I understand. We all understand that feeling where you don't want to feel a certain way, but you can't help it.

[00:31:51] And she says, don't marry him as if she has any say. She has no say. That frustrated me so much. And like Daphne says, the other choices are pretty bad. So, yeah. Not cool. They are. They're horrible. Especially later when Becca is sitting there and Garth is across from her telling her, you know, I'm going to have telling her and her parents, I'm going to have a house.

[00:32:20] It's not as, you know, what Becca's used to, but she'll be close by. And I thought she would want that. And like I said earlier, the thought of someone else thinking about her and what she might want is not something people do. They tell her what they want her to do, not what she may want, but what they want.

[00:32:46] And for her to have someone do that, of course she's going to be drawn to that. It doesn't mean her parents are going to pick him for her. Although maybe they will. I mean, the choices are not good. And do her parents get to pick or is it the aunts or. Yeah, I think, well, maybe the, maybe the aunts have a little final say, or at this point, maybe the parents, because the aunts have done their part. They set up.

[00:33:15] I think the parents get to decide. But I also wonder, it seems like, at least from what we've seen that, you know, every girl has at least one suitor, but many have more than one. But I don't think the commanders are suitors to more than one girl, you know, which I would think if it was real, the higher status commanders would have somewhat of a choice. But I don't think they do.

[00:33:45] So Garth, for example, he's on the low on the totem pole anyway. But I think his only option is probably Becca and that's it. Or nobody. Yeah. And when I said the parents get to choose, I really mean the fathers get to choose mostly because I feel like the women have no control anyway. Right. There may be some relationships where they might listen to their wives. Yeah. Yeah. Their choice. The father's choice.

[00:34:12] Because we all know that if Paula has her way, she's going to be with Weston. And there's no question there. And I wouldn't be surprised if she has a lot of pull in that relationship. I don't know for sure, though, but because we haven't seen a lot of them together. I mean, this was the first time we saw them in the same room together in the series. Yeah.

[00:34:38] So, yeah, I just kind of wanted to point out that little piece of the story that I'm sure is going to play a lot more into the next few episodes. What do you mean? What? The matches. Like who they're going to marry. And I'm sure that's going to play in the next few episodes because decisions are going to get made. Yeah.

[00:35:06] And this whole season is just all about, yeah, the matches. Yeah. Yeah. So I feel like the next few episodes, we're going to see more of that. Like that process maybe of how they whittle it down or make decisions over who they're going to marry. I hope soon. Like I hope they don't push that too long because I really am curious now. See if Batman escapes that buzzsaw. Uh-huh.

[00:35:37] Wendy, what do you have for us? I wanted to talk a little bit about commitment since that is the name of the episode. We see people committing to things in lots of different ways in this episode. All of the girls, Agnes and Becca, Hulda, they're all committing to marriage with a man. But yet they have zero agency in that commitment.

[00:36:04] They don't get to choose who it is, how it is, whether it is. Or not to do it. Yeah. Like they have to do it. And then we also see the Pearl Girls. They've all committed to come to Gilead from wherever they came from. And yet, and I'm sure we'll have more to say about Daisy. I'm just going to touch on it.

[00:36:31] And yet when we see Daisy get driven to the border, she doesn't have her passport in her hand. Somebody else has that. She doesn't have her belongings in her hand. Somebody else has that. So, yeah, she committed to go to Gilead. The Pearl Girls commit to go to Gilead. But I don't really think they have a lot of choice once they get to that step of the way. And then they get in a car and I think that's it for them.

[00:37:00] They're committed. I don't think they can say, oh, I changed my mind. I want to go back to Canada. I don't think that's an option for the Pearl Girls. And we see Daisy commit to being a spy for Gilead. But I also think that was a commitment that made me question things because Daisy has been through a lot in just, what, a few days.

[00:37:30] She's lost her parents. She has no home, no body. I mean, June came into her life for a second. But, you know, now she's gone and nobody will tell her where June is or if she can see June. I mean, to her, June is just another one of these strange Mayday people anyway, right? It's not special. I think she feels like she's special. You can tell she keeps asking about June. That's true. Yeah.

[00:37:56] But, um, so she like rashly decides that she wants to be a spy for Gilead. And I think they probably should have given this a few more beats before taking her up on that. And that's what I thought. I was kind of angry with Mayday for putting Daisy in that situation. But then I also think, like, this is a rebellion.

[00:38:25] This is a survival. You know, you can't have everything wrapped up with a bow. Like, if nobody took risks or nobody was put into harm's way, then the U.S. would probably just cease to exist. And that would be that. So this is how it happens. Yeah.

[00:38:45] They're always kind of portrayed as a bit reckless and desperate and willing to take huge risks, life-threatening risks. I mean, that's consistent, at least, you know. So when they did that with Daisy, I kind of felt the same way. But I'm like, yeah, that's how they are. Yeah. So Daisy's in Gilead now, and she is committed. If she makes an infraction, she could see punishment.

[00:39:13] If she got her period, she could be sold off as a handmaid or an econo wife. And if she's found out, she'll definitely be tortured and killed, as she says in the episode. Hanged, probably. Yeah. Yeah. And then we see some other forms of commitment. We see, I don't remember the first woman's name that took Daisy. Linda, I think. That took her in. Linda. Linda, yeah.

[00:39:42] We see them also. I know, Rita. Rita. We also see them both committing to spy for May Day. And they could be found out by the Canadian government and may be deported because obviously the Canadian government isn't approving of these actions. Or worse, they could be found out by Gilead and get blown up or shot like Daisy's parents did. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:40:10] I was wondering when Rita was telling Daisy, Gilead's never going to stop looking for you. We know that's because Daisy apparently belonged, quote unquote, to a wife and commander in Gilead. And I get, I'm not exactly sure, but it sounds like her birth parents kidnapped her and smuggled her out and then they were killed. Something like that. Because I don't think like the wife and the commander are the parents that they're talking about that smuggled her out. Anyway, we don't know.

[00:40:39] Did they say she was with a wife and commander? No, but Gilead, they said Gilead considers her the parents. So I guess we don't know the details. I think there's a lot of questions about that. Like, is she the, I mean, like why this child? Yeah. My point is though that Gilead, babies are important to Gilead.

[00:41:03] And so that's why her life is in danger because they think that she belongs to them. But I was like, is Rita's life in danger? Because she's like a known adjutant, you know? She's a known member of a rebellion against them. She was there shooting June down from the, when she was hanged. She baked the cake. Yeah, baked the cake with the. But I don't know if anybody knows that. Right. Yeah, right.

[00:41:32] So the handmaids could kill all the commanders. Yeah, maybe they don't know that. Yeah. But I was wondering that, like you're saying she's in danger, but yet you're just living fine in Canada. Right. But I do think like what we saw at the end of the handmaid was Canada was losing its appetite for taking on the United States. Refugees. Yeah. Yeah. So, and I wonder if that's also true of Europe.

[00:42:02] Like they said, Europe now has retinal scanning. And yeah, so maybe it's, it's, I could see that. I could definitely see that happening. It sort of just plugs along with what's happening right now. You know, like I remember when Afghanistan got retaken over by Taliban. Taliban.

[00:42:28] We, you know, they allowed a lot of Afghanis to immigrate over to here. But then now they're all getting deported back to wherever because of our new immigration standards. So I feel like that could very well. Awful. I mean, just. It goes along. So the whole thing about, since you're talking about it, Daisy deciding, now we've learned, you know, why she's decided to be a spy.

[00:42:58] And the whole part where Rita's sort of casually like, yeah, we can't send you to the UK. So you're going to go to Columbia and get rehomed and you'll be in school. It'll be fine. It was sort of on brand. I felt like for Rita to be a little bit callous about that because she could be like that sometimes. But I'm like, what? No way. Like you can totally feel how she, how Daisy's feeling. Like, wait, I'm a teenager. I have this life in Canada. You're going to send me to a Spanish speaking country.

[00:43:26] I don't know anything about, and I'm just supposed to live there. You'll learn Spanish. And so that's part of her motivation to fight back against Gilead, which is great to get some of that. And also, you know, she's mad at them for killing not only her, what she considers her real parents, Neil and Melanie, but also her birth parents. So she's got reason. But I feel like her choosing to do this is still paints her as a bit of an impulsive person, which I think is good. It's a characteristic of a teenager. It's believable.

[00:43:55] But where was I going with that, though? That, oh, crap. I can't remember. Oh, being sent off. So being sent off to Columbia. That's like what a lot of people are facing in our country right now. It's like if you were a child of an undocumented immigrant who was born here and lived your whole life here, they don't care. They'll send you anywhere. It doesn't matter. Who cares if your whole life was here? It's so callous. It's like not their fault, you know? Right. Or you came here.

[00:44:24] You know, one of my best friends growing up came to the U.S. when she was like three. And she is a citizen, you know? But what does that mean? You don't remember that. Where would you go if you went over there? You might not have family over there. They're just dropping people off. And it's not even their home countries sometimes. Yeah. Some of them are just being sent to prison, even though they have committed zero crimes. Yeah. To really harsh prisons. Yeah. It's just insanity. It's not okay.

[00:44:54] It's evil. Like, it's not okay to treat people this way. It's not. Yeah. I think we should stop that. That's my stance. Yes. I agree. But I just wondered, like, most of these commitments aren't fully voluntary, you know? Even Rita and June, their commitment to Gilead is because of their experiences.

[00:45:19] And you could tell that Rita, like, this wasn't her first kid or person that had been dropped off at her door. Right. Like, she seemed like this was, you know, once a month thing that happened. It was kind of like an underground railroad for... Yeah. Yeah. I wondered if we were going to see any more of our friends. Oh, yeah.

[00:45:45] And I really only wanted us to have them or see them if it made sense in the story. I didn't want us to get, like, all of these cameos that didn't really add anything other than, oh, we wanted to show you they're doing okay. I wanted to mean something. Yeah.

[00:46:06] And so I feel like having Rita there, it makes perfect sense to me that she was going to be involved and would still be active in trying to help people. And so I was so happy to see her. Yeah. It was cool.

[00:46:20] I think everyone remembers who Rita is, but just to be safe, she was the main Martha in June's house when June was a handmaid under Serena. Serena's house, I guess, or Fred's.

[00:46:42] She seemed kind of cold at first, but she quickly became an ally and she was crucial in helping June smuggle those kids out. And then she also shot the crane operator who had just hoisted June up to hang her in the final episode or second to last or something. So she saved June's life.

[00:47:08] She went to New Bethlehem, this community that Commander Lawrence started to try to soften Gilead's image. And she was hoping to get her family out of Gilead with Nick's help. And then when June broke up with Nick, then Nick said, oh, I'm not going to help you anymore. Yeah. I just want to get that dig in. It was her sister. Her sister was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:47:33] So I don't know if we know what happened with that, but that's the last thing I remember with her. She did say that she was in culinary school, which I thought was fabulous. Mm-hmm. I feel like she could probably teach at the culinary school. Mm-hmm. And Daisy at one point says, fuck Gilead. And Rita says, that's what I'm trying. I'm trying my best.

[00:48:03] Which is funny because when she first came to Canada, she was not, she did not, it terrified her to try to get back at Gilead. June terrified her, but she's obviously come a long way since then. June was scarier back then. Yeah. Yeah. And she was just, you know, she was, had that survivor syndrome. Yeah.

[00:48:30] And she was, yeah, fresh out of, Rita was fresh out of it. But I love that Frida, Frida, that Rita asked Daisy, are you fruitful? And I'm like, you can't, you can take the girl out of Gilead, but you can't take the Gilead. I thought that was weird. I was like, is it just so ingrained? I think so. Yeah. And then, oh, she's like, oh, no, do you have your period? And I think you're right, Wendy, that she asked her that because she had just said, you know, Daisy said, I want to be a spy, a Mayday spy.

[00:49:00] I don't have anything else left to lose. And she said, are you fruitful? Which I think meant, because if you go in there, then you might end up as a handmaid if you, if you're fertile. That's why I think she was asking her that, because if she had her period, she would end up as a handmaid right quick. Also, there's a difference between feeling brave and being brave.

[00:49:21] And I felt like Rita was really trying to get Daisy to understand that just because she thinks that she's brave, that that doesn't mean that she's really brave. And also, I feel like she tried to hit that home with her a couple of times because Daisy's kind of joking like she's a spy. Yeah. Are you going to teach me how to kill someone with just my thumbs? Yeah. Yeah. She's a spy, by the way. As much as Rita said no, that's exactly what she is. She's absolutely a spy.

[00:49:51] This is espionage. Yeah. Yeah. She tells her she's a sponge and she's there to get information and pass it on to her handler. She shouldn't trust anyone except her handler. So now we know more about what exactly her mission was. Yeah. And not to underestimate any of the girls and to think that she's smarter than them. Because they've grown up in this. They've had to survive in this.

[00:50:19] And so they're equipped for it because it's what they've grown up in. They know it. Daisy doesn't really know. She may have studied it in school, but that is different than actually being in it. Oh, my gosh. Rita absolutely knows that because she's been in it and she knows the difference. It's just so fun to see the back and forth with the flashback and the present where Rita's warning her of some things. You know, you may feel brave, but that's your adrenaline.

[00:50:48] And then we see present day Daisy is scared shitless and just wants to get the hell out of there as quickly as possible. And then also Daisy sort of mocking these girls like, oh, I would never get close to any of them. And then in present day, we see her getting kind of close to Agnes. And, you know, she was like heavily mocking like, oh, they believe the earth is flat. They're so stupid. But now with her conversations with Agnes, there is that culture clash.

[00:51:15] But there's also just the warmth of being in each other's presence and trying to connect. And it was just a good the way it worked back and forth in time that way. Daisy is also reading this book, The Woman in White. I kind of, you know, you know, those little details. That's the book.

[00:51:37] And it is a story about a drawing teacher who uncovers a sinister plot involving a mysterious woman in white stolen identity and a conspiracy to steal an heiress's fortune. And I. I don't know that that means anything, but. Seems appropriate. It seems appropriate to what to what's going on.

[00:52:05] I thought Daisy's whole interaction with the Pearl girls was was interesting because they it's very cult like the way that they were kind of. I don't know. It just reminds me of how, like, I don't know, gaslight gaslighting. I just feel like they were playing on insecurities and showering love bombing, I guess her with kindness. But it can be different.

[00:52:35] Women are are looked at, you know, they're special in Gilead and just talking it up. But just being so. Cringe about it because we all know what Gilead is. And so hearing them talk about it that way is just kind of it.

[00:52:52] I did think it was really hilarious how we switch from Daisy posing as a street girl to Daisy propped up in the bed with cartoons playing eating room service wrapped in a hotel robe. I just thought that was so hilarious. The actress is amazing. Like she nailed all of those bits. I thought that was so funny. Yeah.

[00:53:20] And we did also learn that Daisy's real name is Marguerite. That's right. So. So. So.

[00:53:55] I think we're back to you, Jason. Okay. I'm going to go back to Agnes a little bit because I think that, you know, this episode is about Daisy choosing to be like a full on rebel spy. But I think Agnes is also moving towards rebelling.

[00:54:23] I think in a lot of ways, her first response to things is to play the good Gilead girl. But I think she's reaching her limit and is opening up to the idea of the freedoms of the wider world. And, you know, we see that more in the little things, little actions.

[00:54:47] So like when she sees Daisy stressing out about the eyes questioning the pro girls and she's like, the eyes are protecting us from the people who are here to hurt us. And that's, you know, made it. That's. It's funny that she unknowingly sort of paints Daisy as her enemy and then immediately says, but I admire you for your bravery and strength. You know, you're really brave to come here on your own.

[00:55:12] I mean, if the roles were reversed and I was in a terrible situation like you were, would I have the strength to do what you did? I don't think I would. And she's totally right about that. But like Daisy is brave and strong, but just not exactly for the reasons that Agnes thinks, you know, but close. But she's admiring her. She's starting to think about her. Like, I think she's curious about Daisy's experience. So then she invites her to visit her at her house.

[00:55:42] And of course, Daisy's like amazed about her beautiful bedroom and everything. And she had called her a princess in an earlier episode. But then I just thought it was really cool to see this conversation between Daisy, this young progressive and Agnes, who's, I would say, a young conservative. And they really want to connect. And but their worlds are so different. So it's a little touchy. You know, it's hard not to offend, but they're really trying. And I thought it was really sweet.

[00:56:11] And Daisy talks about I forget why, but she talks about like the bands that she used to like. I love the Sundays, too. That was one of the ones she said. And she said shoegazing emo stuff, songs about falling in love, breaking up, being dumped, feeling sad about it, or anthems about being single and being a badass. And then Agnes is like, that just sounds so sad. You know, like, it's so confusing. And it's just her reaction to that really highlights the difference in their cultures.

[00:56:40] And Daisy's like, well, at least we get to choose. And Agnes says, we don't need that here. It's a lot less confusing. And I've heard people in cultures where there are arranged marriages like India say similar things that, you know, it's just actually more it's easier. And then, you know, people get together and they end up falling in love. But there's also horror stories of people who are mismatched and have horrible lives, you know.

[00:57:06] But it's interesting that outwardly anyway, Agnes is standing up for the system because she's been trained to feel that way. But now that she's having this, the awakening that comes with becoming a young adult and your feelings and your desires don't necessarily line up with what you've been taught your whole life.

[00:57:27] Then I think that there's an inner struggle with Agnes about what she's been told to want and what she's actually wanting. And so she keeps this collection of little things that she's found from the world before Gilead hidden. One of them turns out to be a crack pipe, which was pretty funny.

[00:57:52] So as much as she like stands up for Gilead, she's curious about the world before and she defends the Gilead system of courting where the women have pretty much zero chance choice. But in her heart, she wants she wishes she could choose Garth. She keeps these little little knickknacks from the world before. And I think there's a place in her somewhere that thinks about her mother, too.

[00:58:21] I feel like it's related to that, that there's seeds in her of because, you know, we've she's been such an important part of this whole story where we just want June to get her daughter back. But now we're like, crap, she's being raised in this world and she's been raised with these ideals. And it's just going to make it impossible for her to get out of it and to connect with June or anything like that.

[00:58:46] But I think that underneath in her heart, there's a curiosity about the outside world. There's a wish to have freedom. There's a rebellious spirit. And, you know, we're just seeing a lot of that. She's smoking this cigarette. She's asking Garth if she if he thinks she has a personality because Daisy said, you don't even need a personality in this world because everything's just chosen for you. And it's all based on status rather than chemistry, or at least that's what what I thought.

[00:59:16] And then at the end, when Daisy shows her going into Gilead and Agnes is fiddling with this half smoked cigarette, which I think cigarettes are a lot about rebellion a lot of times. And the song is six underground by sneaker pimps, which is one of a song I used to like. And it says, take me down six underground, the ground beneath your feet laid out low, nothing to go nowhere away to meet.

[00:59:41] I've got a head full of drought down here so far off losing out round here over ground. Watch this space. I'm open to falling from grace. I mean, it's not exactly clear what all that means, but to me, it has a sense of, you know, things are bad enough that I feel disconnected and detached from my reality. And I'm open to doing something new and it might even go in a darker direction like rebelling, you know?

[01:00:07] And then we're seeing both Daisy going into Gilead and Agnes playing with a cigarette and Daisy in voiceover says, there comes a time when you have to take action, when you have to choose your own destiny. We were teenage girls. So fuck it. That time is now. And I think that really goes for both of them, even though it's more overt for Daisy. Like maybe I'm just wanting it for Agnes, but I do feel like that's where it's headed for her, where I don't think she's just going to go. All right.

[01:00:34] I guess I have to marry this guy Weston and be fine with it. I think she's going to rebel, you know, she's. And we're showing that we're seeing how she got there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. She's, she's, you know, she's really. Even just picking up that cigarette is an act of rebellion, you know, like. Yeah. Yeah. And, or, or just sitting there talking to Garth. Mm-hmm. Or keeping those little keepsakes. You know.

[01:01:03] And, and it is, it is interesting to me when she's. That she will talk about Gilead. She'll defend it. But then there's all these other little signs. So that's why it feels like an internal struggle and an awakening to another reality different from the one that she's been brought up with, you know. And I don't think she fully trusts Daisy yet. Like she. Yeah. She's not going to reveal. Like she told Becca that she loved Garth.

[01:01:34] That's who she would tell her secrets to. Not Daisy. Not yet. But I also think it's complicated. Sometimes I think there is a part of her that's like, well, this is a simpler way. But at this point she might. Yeah. I don't know if she's just saying that because that's what she's supposed to say. Or no, I felt like there was some truth behind it where she's like just gotten so used to being told, you know, the way that the outsiders do it is just all fucked up for all kinds of reasons.

[01:02:03] And just really internalizing that, you know. But now she's got a situation where she wishes she could date. It was interesting to me that Agnes knew that Daisy was lying about the crack pipe. Like she could just tell, you know. And then she felt like Daisy didn't trust her. Which Daisy can't trust her fully. But Daisy was, it was hard, it was a little bit tragic because she was just trying to be nice.

[01:02:32] And then, yeah, I mean, I think we've all had those little moments where you try to do something with good intent, but it goes wrong. And then it did break the trust between them a little bit where it seemed like it was building before that. Yep. Well, I mean, they had trust in the beginning. It seemed like, you know, they had a pinky promise at one point. And then Daisy went in and told on Agnes, basically.

[01:03:00] And they got their mouths washed out with soap. Right. Right. So it's hard. Trust is very hard. Yeah. If you trust the wrong person in Gilead, that's a life or death decision sometimes. Mm-hmm. So I want to talk a little bit about Weston coming into the school and that whole situation.

[01:03:26] He comes in and basically talks to Vidala, who wants to go talk to Lydia. Like, she doesn't want to let him in without talking to Lydia first, but she really isn't given a choice. Because he demands to come in. And I was concerned at this point because whatever information that he had, I thought it could lead to Daisy.

[01:03:54] And we could see something major happen to her. You were really afraid for her. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't sure what they would do. Mm-hmm. Um. But I was concerned for her. Um. Because I had a feeling. I just had a feeling that this had to do with her. And then as the episode continued and you see Daisy going to be interviewed by him and he has her radio.

[01:04:24] That's not a good thing. Mm-hmm. Um. We've seen that radio go from place to place to place. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we see the radio when she goes into Gilead, like, later in the episode. So. Puts it. Yeah. Yeah. Um. And Daisy's concerned, too, when they come in because she, I mean, she has to know at any time they could be coming for her.

[01:04:53] All it takes is one thing. One mistake. One thing that she doesn't even realize she's doing. She. Yeah. She has to be careful. Well, after that whole bus thing, it's just felt like they're stepping up there, you know, trying to route out spies and that they're closing in on her. So, yeah, I think she's just freaking out right now. And they got some information from Boston. And at the beginning of this episode. And at the beginning of this episode, we get a voiceover.

[01:05:23] It's very quick where it says, you know, Gilead tried to invade Boston, but they were unsuccessful. There was a high loss of life. And Daisy even says this. No one knows this happened because the information is just not there. It's not talked about. Like, no one knows that. That. That it wasn't. Gilead's ever losing. Yeah. And now we know that that there's fighting still to try to take back Boston and all.

[01:05:53] And that's probably what all the there's been chatter throughout this season about something on the front. Action is stepping up. It's been fighting with Boston where, you know, in The Handmaid's Tale, we saw them take it over. But I think that voiceover this time was Mark. I do, too. Right. That was Mark. Yes. Yes. That was Mark Tuella. Yeah.

[01:06:15] And he also said the violence at the border has prompted dignitaries from Canada and the American government to convene with the UN. Not Gilead. The Canada and America. So I thought that was interesting. Like the global tide is back to turning against Gilead or something. And I'm assuming Gilead is not in the UN. Yeah. I think they're probably on their own. Yeah. For the most part.

[01:06:43] But they're trying to trade and make agreements with other countries to get stuff. To be more legitimate, too. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So we in the scene where Daisy is meeting with Weston, there's also this interspersing of kind of how she was prepped for the mission where she's going through the pictures in the book. Yeah. Which we already talked about. And Rita asking her questions and quizzing her on everything.

[01:07:13] Their backstory that they made up. Yeah. How she got to where she is. Which was great to be able to see how we got from this poor girl who was sitting in a playground with her boyfriend talking about boning to this girl who's dressed in white and infiltrated into Gilead. Yeah. Also that June had this plan for a while.

[01:07:38] Like this is her plan was to get someone infiltrated this way. So we know. She may not be in the episode there. She's still very much a part of this world. She's a presence. The talk of her having a horse in the race and then Rita tells Daisy that June has a child in Gilead that's around her age. Which I think we're just going to have to not worry about whether that makes sense. Just accept it. That's the way I feel. Right. They're about the same age. I agree.

[01:08:06] I don't think it's clear that Daisy knows they're talking about Agnes. I kind of don't think so. I don't think she knows that it's Agnes. And I think that's probably on purpose. Yeah. But she did work really fast to try to save Agnes on the bus. So maybe she does know. I mean, maybe Daisy knows it's one of them.

[01:08:31] I mean, I think we still need another flashback because when she met Garth at the border, she didn't seem to know that he was her handler. And also that was a little like I thought, okay, are these Pearl girls in on it too at all or not? Because it seems like there would have to be some kind of coordination to make sure that they took her to Garth. How did they know they would do that on their own? I don't know.

[01:08:58] But anyway, we see Garth take her radio and we know she gets it back. So maybe they won't show it on screen. But there's some little part in there missing where Garth reveals himself to be her handler. Yeah, because I think Garth knows who she is. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So maybe he just communicated, this is where the Pearl girls do their drop-offs. I know that. So I'm going to make sure to be there or something like that. Yeah. So Daisy survives this meeting with Weston.

[01:09:28] And later that night, they're all kneeling by the bed. And I think Daisy thinks they're coming for her. And they don't. They take her bedmate, the girl in the bed next to her, Talia, who Daisy had bonded with earlier with the tattoo removal. Right. Oh, yeah.

[01:09:54] And one thing that struck me is Daisy was deep breathing. Like you could tell, like after they took Talia out, she took a deep breath. But so did Aunt Vidala. Hmm. Like that was really hard for her or? Potentially or, I mean, it makes me think that no matter how long you're in Gilead and you're having to do all these things,

[01:10:23] that maybe there's still a part of who you were still in there somewhere, despite everything that you've done. That's what I've sort of suspected with her the whole time. I've watched it a couple of times. Like I rewound it and watch the scene a couple of times to make sure that I wasn't seeing something that wasn't there or whatever. Um, and after what we saw last week with the stadium, I want more of that story with Lydia and her. Yeah.

[01:10:53] Like how did, how did we get here? Because there was no Aunt Vidala at the Red Center that we ever saw. Right. So I'm wondering how this all, how that all happened. So I'm curious. I'm very curious. She could have been at the school the whole time maybe. Yeah. Um, yeah. So the meeting with Weston, he said to Daisy, I heard you were very good in a crisis. Like you sprang to action.

[01:11:22] And, um, then she tells him her fake backstory of the two dads and dropping out of school in sixth grade, a hitchhiker with her boyfriend, ending up homeless. And, um, then he lets her go. And I wondered in the moment, is he just pretending? But I think he bought it because they took somebody else. So I don't know if the other person, like when they took her, Daisy's like, you know, it's, it's such a great moment because she's so fearful for her own life.

[01:11:52] But I'm sure in that moment, she's like, wait, is, did I just get an innocent girl killed? And I bet it wasn't innocent girl. I bet they just got the wrong person. Right. I don't know why, but they had to blame. The radio was in Talia's bed. Oh, why? Cause she hit it. It's always been there. That's where it's been hidden. You wouldn't put it in your bed. Right. No, you wouldn't. I don't know. I wouldn't want to get someone else killed.

[01:12:19] Well, I know, but, but that's like, those are the hard things that happen. Right. Yeah. You could put it somewhere else that wouldn't directly implicate anyone. Yeah. I didn't catch that. She's been hiding it in the other girl's bed. Little details. I swear. Podcasting does this to you.

[01:12:42] Anyone out there who wants to get into podcasting, just know that you will start paying attention to the most minute things that may never pay off ever. But they're in your head because you can't help but notice it, especially if it's a good TV show. And it ruins you for other things. Like, there's things like my dad's making me watch the Institute.

[01:13:06] And it's like, it's good acting, but that's about the best I can say for it. Like, the production value sucks. And I can't not see it. We're so spoiled. We're so spoiled because we cover these shows that are so deep and have all these layers. Yeah, like the cinematography and the setting. And it's just so cheaply done. Yeah. So that's what happened is Daisy accidentally got this girl killed and now she feels awful about it.

[01:13:36] Or we don't know if she's killed yet, but Daisy's praying for her at the end. But when... Yeah, saying that prayer that the girls said to her when she was in the circle. Like, that was the prayer. When Vidala is saying, you know, she has them all kneel down, like you said, and pray for the soul of one of our sisters who's been deceiving us. When you say, she didn't say pray for our sisters. She said, pray for their soul. That to me means that person is dead and we're just praying that they go to heaven.

[01:14:05] Yeah. So sad. All right. I think we're back around to Wendy. I think I mostly have little things. I just thought that Becca is just so desperate and sad.

[01:14:26] And she keeps trying to tell the people that she cares about most and she feels the most like she can trust. She keeps telling them. I mean, she told Agnes that she wanted to kill herself, basically. And nobody is listening to Becca.

[01:14:49] And I really think we're being set up for something terrible to happen, you know, in the next couple episodes. If somebody doesn't do something. Maybe she'll end up with Garth and then shoot. It won't be so bad. I mean, I really think that she's going to end up with Maddox. Maddox. And that Agnes is going to end up with Weston. That's what I think is going to happen. Because we know what show we're watching.

[01:15:19] Well, right. And I think the others are just carrots. They're dangling just to keep you now. So, yeah. I'm hopeful for I'm really hopeful for Becca. But I. Her best case scenario is she runs away and gets away. I don't think that's what's going to happen. So, her second best scenario is she ends up with Garth, despite it probably destroying her friendship with Agnes.

[01:15:51] Yeah. I worried about her. I worry. I'm worried about her. It makes me think of this quote that's in Titanic where Rose says, it's like I'm in the middle of a room screaming and nobody can hear me. Yeah. Becca has reached out. And honestly, it's a cry for help. She has been crying for help and nobody is listening. If they're trying to shut her up. They're like, why are you saying that?

[01:16:21] Don't say that. Yeah. Because that's sort of just the knee jerk response in Gilead to anything that doesn't fit in their very limited set of the way things are supposed to be. It's like, hey, you're wearing a red suit and we're all wearing gray. Go change. You know, that kind of a thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's really incredibly sad.

[01:16:45] I'm worried for Becca because she is just a character that when you meet her in the early episodes too, you just can't help but feel for her and care for her. And want only good things. And I feel like she may end up with the worst of everything. Yep. Jason, do you have anything else? Yeah. Two more points.

[01:17:14] One is more about how Daisy got into Gilead, pretending to be homeless and getting picked up by these Pearl girls, which are kind of just remind me of missionaries that go in other countries and proselytize. But then in the hotel room, they're kind of preaching to her. Have you given any thought to your future? Do you feel like you're living up to your full potential?

[01:17:40] And I just think it's always interesting with people like the Pearl girls. It reminds me of when like Jehovah witnesses or Mormons come to my door and they're almost always really kind. And I often will talk to them honestly, you know, just try to connect, be a real person. And they and say, you know, I just I don't believe in that. But it's because they're right.

[01:18:10] Like I don't have all the answers and I can see how it could feel really seductive to somebody because no one, none of us feel like we have all the answers. But they often come out, come off as if there's a place of wisdom and centeredness about them because they feel like they have found all the answers. And and it's it's just interesting.

[01:18:34] It's an interesting thing to me how being steeped in a religion or just different things can make you feel that way. And it's coming from a place of goodness, you know, they're trying to help for the most part. And so that's where the whole thing when she says there's this that illusion of the old hag or the young woman.

[01:19:01] But once you've seen both, then you can't help but see them all the time. I think that's what she's talking about, where, you know, that these Pearl girls are coming from a good place of really wanting to help. Or at least that's what I think Daisy presumes. But she knows where it leads to a dark place. And like this Pearl girl says in Gilead, women are valued and cherished. They're respected. Ha! And that's not really the whole story.

[01:19:30] I mean, in one sense, that's true. They're very much valued for their ability to bear children. But they're treated like objects. And if they're deemed sinners, then they're – I was writing this note. They're systematically raped. And just as I was writing that, Daisy said, I heard women are kept as sex slaves. And they answered, you know, no, if women here knew that women were treated like gold in Gilead, they would all want to live there. And I'm like, so does she not know about handmaids?

[01:20:00] Or is it just somehow twisted in her mind so that everything she's saying makes sense? Or is she just lying? She's omitting. I wonder that too. She's omitting all the bad stuff. Yeah. She knows. Yeah. So that's – then that sort of contradicts what I was saying before, that they do have – they think they have Daisy's best interests at heart.

[01:20:22] But my sense is a lot of times when you're in an organization, a group like that, you do think you have the answers. So I don't think she's thinking – I'm telling her it's going to be great, but really it could be very bad for her. I think they're thinking this is a sinner and Gilead is what they need to turn their life around. Yeah. And they believe in the mission.

[01:20:50] Like they believe that women should be subjugated for their own good. Yeah. Right. That protects women. And she does believe that in that way women are valued and treated as queens. Yes. Because that's all she knows, I assume. Yeah.

[01:21:12] And one of the pro girls says, you'd be amazed once you let go of all the things that waste your time, how quickly you'd feel fulfilled. And I'm like, that seems right on to me. And that's the thing about groups like this is they do have wisdom in there and they can get you with it. So be careful. Well, and you can imagine people who are at a very low point in their lives and you're there saying all the right things to make them feel comforted and safe.

[01:21:41] I mean, even her trust. When they surround her and start saying a prayer for her and they're saying like, you're loved and you're not alone. That's exactly what she needs to hear in that moment. Yeah. Because she just lost her parents. And I thought, I bet you there's a part of her that's like, oh, wow, this actually feels good. But then she knows. She's too aware. She's like, nope, there's that illusion of the old hag and the young woman. And I see both. Yep. Yeah. She sees both sides of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:22:10] But she doesn't, I don't think she holds it against these girls. You know, she's like, these are good women who've been led astray kind of thing. And you could see she was really genuinely scared when she got to the border. Like she started to shake. Yeah. That adrenaline was gone at that point. Yeah. What did I get myself into? Exactly. I mean, Rita tried to tell her. Yeah.

[01:22:39] It wasn't going to be like a vacation somewhere. It was going to be something that was a challenge. It was going to be scary and it absolutely was. And then I just have one more smaller point. Should I do that now? Or do you guys have more? No, I have nothing left. Okay. Just that when Rita asked Daisy, are you fruitful? And did you, have you had your period?

[01:23:08] And Daisy said no. And that no one does. And she only knows one girl who got it. It made me think back how we know that the fertility crisis in this whole universe is global. And I think it is higher. Fertility is higher in Gilead than other parts of the world because of the control that Serene used to brag about it. Like they have strict pollution controls.

[01:23:32] They have more natural living conditions and lots of control over what people eat and everything. So they can brag that they have a higher fertility there. Right. Out of all the people that Daisy knows, only one person has gotten their period. But in the same group, almost all the plums in Agnes' group have gotten their period. Is that right? I mean, we know.

[01:24:02] Yeah. Well, everybody but Shue. Shue's the only one that didn't yet. There were a few other nameless ones that are around, but all of them have gotten it. Penny, obviously. I've been thinking about this a little bit. Do you think that being in this new environment might change things for Daisy that way? I think that could come into play.

[01:24:55] Yeah. And she actually tries to smoke the cigarette. She takes a drag on it. Garth catches her out. And, you know, you could just see Agnes' desperation levels. She goes a little bit further each time with him. And he finally just tells her to go inside because he knows that, like, he's crossing lines. She's crossing lines. I can't wait to see what happens with them next. He pushes.

[01:25:25] She really pushes, like, the jealous girl. Like, the girl who has a crush and is like, well, did you have fun at your little meeting with Becca? Yeah. That is totally what a girl would say. Like, you would. You can tell that Chase Infinity has felt that feeling. Or else she's a dangerous actress because she really came across.

[01:25:47] And I thought there was – this is the first time I've doubted what I've been saying that maybe Garth doesn't really like her and he's just using her to get information. Because when she said, so do you think I have a personality? And he's like, yes, I see it. And I felt that was real. So either he really means it or he's really good as an actor. The character's a good actor. And then she said, what difference does it make? It doesn't matter here. Did you have a nice visit with Becca? And then there's a pause there where it feels like he wants to say the truth.

[01:26:17] Like, I don't believe in any of this, you know. But he realized – I don't know. That may be just me reading into it. No, no. I agree. No, no, no. I can't say that. So he goes, you should go back inside. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe he does like her. I thought it was funny that the Pearl Girls aren't allowed to watch TV. And yet they gave themselves away by knowing exactly how the cartoon ended. I like that little piece. Didn't she say, I don't listen? Or I forget.

[01:26:47] I don't miss it, she said. Yeah. She said she doesn't miss it. I mean, they were watching cartoons. They didn't put it on like a soap opera or – Right. And then – Wait, wait, wait. I got to see how this ends. Yeah. And then Agnes, every time she says mother to Paula, she just spits that word. The word is just seething. I love it. Yeah.

[01:27:16] Even when she's just – when they're sitting with – I think it was Weston, or it might have been the other commander that was visiting. And she's just like – even when she says it then, it's like – Yes. You can tell that she does not like it. She's – Yes. Doesn't consider her to be her mother, yet she's been forced to accept her as her mother. And that's all I have until book talk.

[01:27:44] I remember because I had a single mom, and then she married a guy who I never – we never got along. And she wanted me to call him dad, and so I did. But I never liked it. No, I will never. I have a stepfather, and I don't. Jason, that's terrible. No. No, I don't mean it's terrible of Jason. I just think – I just hate the idea that – No.

[01:28:12] Someone – yeah, that you felt like you had to do that. Yeah, I kind of guilted into it. Yeah. My mom was like that. And then – so I had two of those when I was a kid. And then when I got older, in my late 20s, I think, my mom married another guy. And she's like, well, you call him dad? And I was like, nope. No. Not happening, mom. I've grown up. I'm beyond this. Brian went through a lot of that. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. So, old news. Thank you, though.

[01:28:42] It takes a special person who comes in to be like a father. You don't replace the person that was there before. But there are men who come into lives that do exemplify what being a father or a dad is. Mm-hmm. And in those cases, I think if the child wants to call them dad, then that absolutely is deserved and earned.

[01:29:10] Just because you marry someone who has kids doesn't mean that you're automatically a father to these kids. You might be a father figure, but you're not a father. Being a father is so much more than just being married. To earn it. You have to earn it. Yeah. I agree. All right. Okay. Is that it? I had a couple notes. Okay.

[01:29:37] June had told Daisy, okay, just wait here. And, you know, you're never alone. And then Daisy goes, no one came. And I'm like, June, what happened? But then it turns out that I guess the woman who owned the place, Linda, was just seeing if she would wait like a test. But I'm like, why? Yeah. Why are you testing her like that? I don't get it. Because they're just going to send her to another country anyway. So why make her pass as fast?

[01:30:06] And she's been through so much. Yeah. I didn't understand that. Maybe her resolve. But like, if she just like walked out aimlessly and she has nowhere to go, were you just going to let her go? Yeah. Why? I liked what Linda said. On the bright side, tomorrow's supposed to be a beautiful May day. And Daisy doesn't get it right away. She's like, the fuck, it's March. Yeah.

[01:30:36] And then it all comes together. Yeah. Which totally brings you back to June's first, you know, inklings of May Day with the fellow handmaid who would say that. Yeah. Something similar to that. Yeah. They really couldn't risk saying the wrong thing back then.

[01:31:00] And then my last note is just that there's another great song in this episode when Daisy's in the car going to Gilligad. It's Far Away by Sharon Van Etten, who I'd actually never heard this song, but I love her because that song 17 was in Yellow Jackets. Yeah. I love that song. I played it over and over and over and over and over and over and I played a couple of other songs, but I think I've liked every one I've heard and this is a new one for me. So it's great. Yeah. She's great.

[01:31:29] I love that we podcast on shows that are so careful and pick the right music for the episodes. It's ones that are going to add to it and pull you in versus just being there.

[01:32:11] Yeah. It's cool to pull from different, like they had Six Underground, which is from the late 90s, I think, in this episode, but they have new things. And yeah, it's really great. Yeah, it's such a great mix and it just adds to the story. It makes the storytelling even more compelling with the nuances that it brings. It works well too now because we're really doing two teenage girl shows now.

[01:32:41] I realized the Testaments and Yellow Jackets and it works well with that. Yeah.

[01:33:36] Okay. I think that takes us to feedback time. Okay. Okay. First, we have JC Lee who says, Gilead fucked up prom from hell was such a great line on the podcast. Ha ha. I don't know who said that, but I like it. It sounds like you, Jason. It does sound kind of like me. I don't think I said it. I don't know. We'll do a quiz at the end of the season. Who said what on the podcast?

[01:34:03] I would fail miserably because I don't remember once we finish. It's like, okay, on to the next thing. Yeah. Yeah. Danielle sends in, it's the whole thing about Gilead being so interested in getting her back and the way Elizabeth Moss played it. It seems like too much interest from Gilead considering how many kids were gotten out and June's behavior during her meeting with Daisy, especially the huge trying not to cry hug moment was too much emotion for June. If this isn't her child.

[01:34:32] Also, the fact that Mayday has been watching Daisy this closely is wild. Are they watching all the kids? They got out this closely. I can't imagine they have the resources for that. I know my experience of the show is skewed by having read the book and I can't know what I would be thinking if I hadn't, but I have read it and many of the viewers have. So I just think they could have done those scenes better if they didn't want us to wonder. Okay.

[01:35:01] I just think Bruce was stuck in a place where he wanted to make the change that Daisy and Agnes were the same age, which I think is makes for a great show, but didn't want to, but wanted to keep as much else as he could. The same as the book, which he has said, he said exactly what I just said. And so that led it to be like, why is it so similar? If, if they're supposed to be different people, it's confusing, you know?

[01:35:30] And to be fair, he came out with that as soon as the show dropped. Yeah. It's just for us who, you know, we had watched and podcasted on four episodes before the show dropped. So we had gotten used to this idea. Yeah. Had we known that. Yeah. I think it may have changed how we perceived things. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:35:56] But, you know, on the other hand, if her name is Marguerite, maybe they should have just called her Marguerite. That would have maybe helped. Like, I think he came out and did all those articles because they realized they, you needed that. Needed to clarify it. You needed that context or else you didn't get it. Right. I have some things to say in book talk too, based on some conversations I've had that. Cool. Have some thoughts on it. So. All right. And Griffin says, hi team.

[01:36:25] Thank you for all the great podcasts. I'm Anne from Liverpool, England. I have read and loved Margaret Atwood for years and I love to hear any discussion of her work. I have read both The Handmaid's Tale and The Testaments and seen the shows. It's tough to return to Gilead while at the same time watching what is happening in the real world. I'm really enjoying your podcast and the insights and discussion. It gives me hope. And I wholeheartedly agree that we need to go.

[01:36:55] We need to see some hope for the future right now. I am not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but I noticed that the colors worn by the plums, the wives and the pearl girls make up the colors of the suffragette movement when they are joined together. Purple, green and white. The joining together of the assigned color for each group eventually gives them the power. We can hope. Surely this cannot be a coincidence. What do you think?

[01:37:24] Has this connection already been made? Cannot wait for episode six tomorrow, Anne. That's great. I don't know. Yeah. It seems like something that Margaret Atwood would do. Yes, absolutely. Yep. So we have a call from Holly Dazzle. And she says, yes, that is her real name. Okay. That's great.

[01:37:54] Hey, y'all. I just wanted to say first off, thank you for making such a fantastic show. I listen every week while I clean. I'm the caretaker at a four story brownstone that I live in. And I listen while I vacuum, which is the hardest part of my job. So thank you for carrying me through that. And now my feedback I wanted to give was on specifically, I've been a little bit fixated on Agnes's dollhouse and the missing handmade figurine.

[01:38:24] And I'm just wondering what that, why that happened. And if we'll ever get to see why that happened, why that's missing from her set.

[01:39:07] And I'm just wondering what she said. And I'm going to be a little bit better. I'm going to be a little bit better. But it is not that the thing that I want to do with her. And I'm going to be a little bit better.

[01:39:37] the the brainwashing a bit to like take that away or did they use that as kind of like a boogeyman like this this lady was trying to take you and so that's why it's gone from the dollhouse like did it scare her and she you know we already saw her like in just imagine to destroy the wife

[01:39:59] doll when she was angry did she or did her mother tabitha get rid of the handmade doll because of june and because it might activate a memory or they used it as kind of like a boogeyman to scare agnes and then agnes got too scared of it and got rid of it because it scared her too much

[01:40:24] you know is it in the bottom of a drawer somewhere or did she put it away because she's a little heartbroken looking at it and so she hid it and like looks at it longingly when she thinks of her original mother so it'll be interesting to see if they ever loop back like you have all said they don't do anything without intention in the show so i'm really interested to see if we'll ever see

[01:40:51] where the missing handmade doll is or if it was just a symbolism of june being missing from her story it's a big unknown and i just think one thing sitting out there for the story that's left to be told is agnes what she knows about june how she feels about it uh i suspect

[01:41:20] like i've been saying that yeah there's been stories i don't know how detailed but on some level about it being a bad situation that she came from so she's been encouraged to think of it as bad but i think you know we'll see i mean we even saw that in the handmaid's tale when june came to see her and she was scared of her at the end and didn't want to talk to her so um you know hopefully

[01:41:48] by the end of this we'll see that turn around and my guess is it won't be a smooth process you know but i'm curious too about the missing handmaid for sure i mean and when june saw her she was always wearing the handmaids when that god yeah and so that seeing that doll would always connect like

[01:42:14] keep that connection and they didn't want her to have that connection with june that might just be it huh yeah i could see tabitha have hidden it to protect her maybe or at least what she thought she was protecting her just to not have her be thinking about it and having that connection with her birth

[01:42:36] mother in any way right they wouldn't want her to see that doll and and keep remembering that because that would keep a connection going and and they wouldn't want her to have that connection yeah truth maybe they should have got in a different dollhouse then

[01:42:58] it is a fantastic doll it is amazing it is right all right that's our show thanks for listening everyone

[01:43:21] next time on the podcast the testament season one episode eight broken if you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com don't forget if you haven't yet to check out our groups our handmaid's tale mayday group where we talk about handmaid's tale the current world and the testaments and we also have another more general

[01:43:51] podcast group we have a discord server all of the links for those will be in the show notes all right that's our show thanks for listening fuck gilead and now we're gonna have book club we are and if you don't want to make the connection between the book and the tv series

[01:44:21] now would be a great time to press stop yeah bye so i actually had a little zoom discussion with some folks over on the mayday from our mayday facebook group part of our book club and we talked about some of the stuff that we've seen in the first five episodes because not everyone

[01:44:46] has seen everything yet and um one of the things that came out of it i wanted to bring up is there has been some difficulty in separating uh the characters of daisy and garth because of their names because there were um because in the book daisy is nicole and garth is you know kind of brings daisy

[01:45:15] into gilead not in the way that he did uh on the show yeah he was in canada right he was yeah when she was pretending to be homeless and so the suggestion was that maybe bruce miller or whoever um was in charge of this should have changed their names because then it would have made it easier

[01:45:40] to disconnect people's brains especially those who had read the book um from those characters that they knew in the book um if they were going to be different and i kind of think that's a really great suggestion i think it it might have made things a little bit easier for those who read the books for me coming in after just finishing the books um i've been able to to reconcile it in my head and

[01:46:09] disconnect it but there are people having a really hard time with it and i i get it because the you hear the name and you automatically go to what you knew from the book and so having them name something else might have made it easier i mean just from years of podcasting about the walking dead which is based on

[01:46:30] pretty much my all-time favorite comic book i feel like it's just a good idea to do your best to separate the two worlds and appreciate each one on its own for what it is and i know sometimes like i i sometimes i don't always find it easy to do that when they make a change that i'm like oh that was one of my favorite things about whatever the first one was but still i think the walking dead comic

[01:46:57] is definitely different than the show there's a lot of similarities a lot of differences it's its own thing especially rick grimes he seems like a totally different kind of a character in the book and the show and i love both versions so that's what i try to do i try to appreciate both on their own as much as possible i consider it like a multiverse situation like this is a story happening

[01:47:20] in the same world it's similar but there are going to be some differences and so i've been able to reconcile it but it was really cool to have this conversation with amber and virginia and the others because it was stuff i hadn't really thought of until they were bringing it up and so it led to some really good you know talks we didn't record it it was very much just a

[01:47:48] a general conversation but i thought it was a great great chance to talk about it the book when i read it i i've said this a few times i i didn't love it i thought it was it wasn't as hard hitting as handmaid's tale so i was kind of comparing it to the handmaid's tale honestly and and for me it didn't quite measure up but um then i was a little bit more ready for the book on second reread

[01:48:17] because like i've said i need something hopeful and i think it's more of a hopeful story but anyway the show on the other hand i just wasn't ready for the pop music and the just the sort of teenage coming of ageness of it and just the world of it is really fun to get lost in and just worrying for

[01:48:42] these characters and it's hitting me in a way that the book didn't really hit me i'm liking the show much more than i like the book and um so it's very easy for me to just say ah the book's its own thing and just appreciate this great show you know and i liked the testaments the book better than the handmaid's tale book i was i was into it i really enjoyed it clutching my pearls right now uh-oh

[01:49:12] because jason likes the show more or the fact because you i'm sorry i i can't it's okay it's only my favorite book in the world that's all daphne you know there are people my favorite book is the great gatsby and people rip on that all the time where they they just tear it to pieces i like the great gatsby yeah um no i really i really liked the testaments i'm not really sure why i mean

[01:49:41] again this is different for me because when we start recording on handmaid's tale it was like season four i'd never read the book i had nothing to compare anything to in my head nothing this time coming in to record on testaments i've read the book it's a very different way to come into it because my brain often gets stuck in details and trying to predict what's going to happen and i've had

[01:50:11] to give up and just ride with it because i have all that knowledge from the book and it really isn't the same thing that we're watching not completely there are some changes that said i really like the series and i'm like looking forward to seeing where it takes us despite the subject matter being

[01:50:34] incredibly dark and it being depressing it's so well done and it's such a different perspective than what we got in the handmaid's tale that it almost makes me want to go back and re-watch handmaid's tale to see if there are things i notice in it differently than i did the first time through

[01:50:56] almost i'm probably not going to do that you know cassie um was talking to me about this one scene in the handmaid's tale and i think it was like season two and i'm telling you i do not recall it at all it was a whole character a whole arc and i was like i she she pulled it up on her phone pictures of the of the woman she was i it's gone like i think because most shows like house of the dragon since

[01:51:25] season two has ended i've probably watched it twice you know and yellow jackets i re-watched that but handmaid's tale i really i might go back and watch a key episode here or there we never did in-depth episode by episode podcasts on the first few seasons well yeah probably never will we didn't yeah but there was there was coverage of it though on

[01:51:51] podcast it just wasn't us that did it of season three yeah they started with season three yeah and it's just not something you're gonna watch you know once we've watched it three times for the podcast that's probably it right except for um taylor swift's look what what you made me do yeah that one i like i'll go back to that i'll be honest jason uh for the walking dead season seven episode one

[01:52:18] i've seen one time and i will never watch it again ever yeah there are just some shows and episodes that one time is enough yeah yeah i agree all right what else we got

[01:52:40] um i wondered if they could potentially be switching weston and judd's characters yeah maybe or they're both wife killers we have a piece of feedback from amy bowers and she says so far we've learned a few things about commander judd his first name is michael he is a

[01:53:07] good guy in pretty performative ways example checking the gross commanders reassuring agnes but can be manipulative example playing lydia and videla against each other he's married to a literal child penny was in school with our plums but he himself is considered young for an influential commander in the books commander judd's full name is b frederick judd he is older one of the architects

[01:53:33] of gilead and on his fourth or fifth young wife by the time of the testaments he's super powerful and basically the himmler of gilead these appear to be two different characters it'll be interesting to see if they make them literally different people example michael is frederick's son brook born pre-gilead or they are basically the same person but they decided to make him a bit less evil

[01:53:57] old man and used a different name to avoid confusion with waterford which makes sense fred waterford um and so there wouldn't be two freds that that makes sense i you know i wonder about that because i also felt like he was too young compared to what i had read in the book and i thought that but i also thought

[01:54:26] about this we're only four years apart from the end of the handmaid's tale versus the 15 years that they talked about in the book so i'm thought well you know if he's 15 years younger maybe he is maybe this or whatever maybe he is in the age range he's supposed to be in but i don't think so i pictured

[01:54:50] older judd from the book to be like 60 vidala is supposed to be older too in the book yeah and i don't i think i said it last time but she looks the same age i mean she looks so young in the present day and yet she looks the same of course because it's the same actors you can't really de-age her but

[01:55:12] back in the flashback with lydia so i was thinking maybe she was like you know 24 or something as a with lydia and then she's like 34 as an aunt later when we're seeing her yeah right i like that they kept daisy she did get a tattoo before she went in even if the tattoo is different because in the

[01:55:34] book it said love god um and i like that they kept like the whole green theme of like her hair getting dyed and and her having like the green in it because they did have that in the book when she was jade um in the book she resisted the pearl girls more and they had to go away and come back a second

[01:56:00] time right but it's similar to with lydia last time where she that was drawn out a little bit more they're condensing things just a little bit yeah and then her having her name be marguerite that's different that really further differentiates her from the character in the book i know i wish that they just had her be marguerite the whole time because i kind of agree with the with the girls

[01:56:27] that changing the names might have made a difference yeah i had two sister marguerites for teachers and neither were good oh boy mean mean nuns yeah yeah so i don't really have anything else

[01:56:51] nope me neither all right let's go watch everybody bye everybody yeah yeah have you ever asked yourself can the president really do that or wondered if there was too much money in political campaigns then check out the new season of you might be right hosted by us former tennessee governors phil bredison and bill haslam we're back for a brand new season now and you might be right cements the idea that constructive disagreement can lead to real problem solving this season we're

[01:57:20] going to dig into the role of the national guard ai regulation and a lot more new episodes drop every other week follow you might be right wherever you get your podcasts we all need advice but it's not always clear who to ask even in 2026 enter how to the long-standing advice show an ambi award nominated best personal growth podcast that's back with new episodes and a new host who me mike peska each week i tackle a listener question ranging from travel to finance to relationships and beyond

[01:57:49] with help from a world-class expert you know someone who actually very much knows what they're talking about think of it as eavesdropping on someone else's therapy session without the copay or awkward silences you've got questions we'll find the experts and the answers so follow how to with mike peska wherever you get podcasts