IT: Welcome to Derry "A Story of Derry"

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmm. Podcastica Mitig, what were those things? Not things, thing. So what does it want? To eat, to grow, to survive.

[00:00:31] Mostly eat. What does it eat? It likes the meat that is the biggest dream. That's the endless fear.

[00:01:02] Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Sean. And this is Wax Episodic. In this episode, we're covering the surprise special episode of Welcome to Derry, that dropped on Halloween. A Story of Derry. Surprise! Surprise! And so, I mean, just jumping into that a little bit if you want to. When I first saw the image on Facebook, like I would have swore it was some kind of AI thing.

[00:01:30] I was like, there's absolutely, because it didn't say like HBO Max presents or it was just some random website. And I was like, there's no way this is true. And I got on my HBO Max app on my phone and nothing showed up. And I'm like, this can't be real. But it was, and it was super awesome. And I was super excited to have like a nice little Halloween treat. Yeah. Yeah. That's really nice to do. Yeah. Sometimes when the, cause the bear had a surprise episode and I couldn't find it either.

[00:01:58] And they don't, they put it as like a little movie separate. So it's harder to find that's dumb. They should just stick it like with the rest of the episodes in the season. But anyway, I wonder how many people are listening to us going, oh, there's a surprise episode. Cool. Yeah. And with Halloween on a Saturday and I mean, it's cause they, they dropped, did they drop the first episodes on Halloween last year? It was around there, right? Or did they drop an extra episode? It was airing around there. Yeah.

[00:02:25] I don't remember the exact timing, but yeah, it's been, it's been a year since this, the first season came out. It just flew by man. Yeah. Well, I'm glad that they did this. Cause it's, I know like, I think season two has been green lit. Um, but like it's been quiet on that front. Finally. Uh, but like, this is how you keep like momentum, you know, a perfect little one shot episode. Um, I, I, and I love like one shot things too. Like it was concise. It was a quick 30 minutes.

[00:02:55] Yeah. Like it makes me want to go back and watch the season and the show again. Uh, I know it's gotten me all into it. The only bad thing is it, they feel like they need to keep momentum, which means season two is probably not coming for a while. Yeah. You know what I mean? If it was right around the corner, I don't think they'd be doing this, but I have more, a little more details about that in our new segment. But before we get into actually talking about this episode, I just want it, since I haven't talked to you in a while, I wanted to ask you.

[00:03:22] So, uh, co-show runner of dairy season one, Brad, Caleb Kane had another show out just recently crystal Lake, which is the, uh, Friday, the 13th prequel. And then, you know, there's, um, all kinds of Stephen King stuff going on right now, but the most notable one that I keep hearing about that I haven't had a chance to watch is Carrie by Mike Flanagan. That also just came out. And so I think you watched both of those right now. I've finished both. Yeah. To get your take.

[00:03:49] Uh, so Carrie was the one I watched first and, uh, it's, it's one of those, uh, it's, it's a topic. And I think you can do every generation and put it in as like the bullying and things like that. Yeah. Uh, and it, and they did a really, like, I don't want to spoil everything. Like I liked the whole show, the ending and kind of how they're progressing, like maybe to a season two, kind of not sure how I feel about that. Um, but the show itself was really, really good. The acting was in, it was great. Was it eight episodes? Yeah, it was short too.

[00:04:19] It was like eight episodes. I got to watch it. I think Chris Crystal Lake was like eight episodes too. Yep. And I love that these, uh, streaming networks aren't trying to fill in like a 12 or 14 like show quota. They just get the story in and go. Um, Crystal Lake, the first episode when I watched it, um, like it pulled at your heartstrings. Cause again, kind of a bowling topic and it made you sympathetic for both, uh, Pam and Jason. Little Jason was so cute. Oh my God.

[00:04:48] He wasn't like, I, the, the twist in that I'm not sure about, like, it'll be interesting as well. Like I kind of like it cause it makes a little bit more sci-fi, but again, like, it's just like, don't spoil too much. Cause I won't get too much to it. Uh, sorry, but, but, but yeah, both shows really, really good. Uh, enjoyed them both. Uh, Crystal Lake probably could have been a little shorter. There seemed to be a little bit of filler, but when it got into the slash, when it got going, it was awesome. I mean, personally, I feel like it demystified things a little bit again.

[00:05:17] I don't want to spoil too much, but, um, it was very enjoyable. And Linda Cardellini, I thought was just, oh my gosh. Daphne as Pam was like top notch and I've seen her in a bunch of things lately too. And she's just always knocking it out of the park. She really is. Yeah. Dead to me is really good. So for, if people didn't know, uh, me and my friends, Nathan and Jamie podcasted about Crystal Lake over on my other podcasts, walking dead cast.

[00:05:42] If anybody's curious, we did two episodes at a time and we really cranked them out because they laid them all down at once, which I hate when they do that, but we wanted to get them out before people stop paying attention. Yeah. And just the, I mean, I remember like, it's just funny to be like back in my day, we used to stream everything in one week. Cause you know, they put everything out at once. And I think we've gone back to the state of mind where it's like, I want weekly episodes. Yeah. Like when we, and I were doing strange indeed, that's how we did all the binge. Every show you guys did. Cause they were all Netflix. Yeah. Cause it was all like, they released them all at once.

[00:06:11] Like, no, we're going to sit and enjoy these and put these out weekly. Uh, and I, and I missed that cause there's like the water cooler talk and stuff like this. We just get with a good friend and like, did you see last night's episode? Um, cause Dexter just dropped Friday. I know. The new season. And I'm a huge Dexter fan. It was awesome. Oh my God. It was so good. Um, I was hoping episode two came out on Sunday, but I have to wait a whole other week. But since you mentioned that, um, as a Patreon perk, I'm doing Dexter resurrections round table reactions.

[00:06:39] I'm bringing in one or two fans each week to just no prep, just watch the episode and then just chat about it quickly, whatever. So you, I would love to have you on one of those. Yeah. Let me know one of those days. Yeah. Yeah. It's fun. Cause we're just purposefully saying you can take a few notes, but otherwise no prep. So we just, there's no pressure. It's all just, I love that. Whatever we, whatever we, uh, liked about it. So, all right. All that said, let's get into it. Welcome to Derry, a story of dairy. Would you like to read the plot summary?

[00:07:09] Yeah. So the plot summary. So in a native American tribe, Nakani goes hunting to the Western forest where the gut, the galo galo galoo galoo galoo. I think. Yeah. In the, uh, um, the subtitles, they spelled it K O L L U. Yeah. They spell it different in different places. I feel like. So the galoo lives.

[00:07:30] And despite Suski's concern with Kino and Maniz, the galoo appears disguised as English settlers, but Matig and native American drive it away with a dagger and tells them how the cosmic turtle Maturin defeated the entity. When Maniz leaves the camp, he discovers that Matig killed the tribe and that this is what has been feeding them. He informs Nakani and Kino and the trio overpowers Matig and escapes with the dagger. Matig reveals them that he also sacrificed them to the galoo, which then kills him.

[00:07:58] Seski leads a search party into the forest, but is mortally wounded by the entity. A subsequent counsel, Kino uses Matig's substance to astrally communicate with Maturin, who reveals the location of the entity's crash site when he banished it to earth. The tribe gathers 13 fragments of the stone from its prison, cages the galoo around the Western forest and vows to guard the cage forever. Yeah. So what did you think? I really liked it. It's, it was really cool again.

[00:08:25] Cause it was just like a quick, like this reminded me of a one shot comic. Like it's a, it's a sub story into like this bigger thing, but it really took a lot of the pieces that we saw during the show that we only got fragments of and really kind of put it into a nice concise little story. And this is something they could have done a whole season on. And I'm glad that they, they decided to do like a one shot with it because right when you pulled in, like you're instantly thrown into this, like, here's the plot. They're right in the woods. There's the glue. It's all going on.

[00:08:54] And then it's like, it's, it's a quick nonstop action. Yeah. Like it didn't feel like a down moment. Like I just watched again for the second time before we hopped on here and I was like, okay, I've got like 45 minutes till we got a podcast. And it just went by like that just quick and through. It was like, just very interesting and nice little tidbits that you can pull out that tie into the bigger universe that I liked as well. Yeah, absolutely. They add it. So for people who don't remember, and I didn't remember at first, but I went back, it's a retelling of this story.

[00:09:23] We heard when Rose's nephew, Daniel, they like detained him and, uh, they were trying to figure out the military was trying to figure out where these shards, protective shards were so they could go take one out and let it loose.

[00:09:41] And, um, so anyway, uh, Daniel didn't realize it, but Halloran was there and they started questioning him and Halloran went into his mind and disguised himself as his aunt Rose so that Daniel would tell the tribal story of the glue and how the shards were made and everything. And they just did a real quick, it was little Daniel narrating it at the end of episode four.

[00:10:04] And it was like a 15 minute thing of him just telling the tribal story that's been passed down from generations as we saw it depicted on screen. Um, and I love that part of that episode. I remember thinking that was really cool. And that was the episode called like the swirling cosmicness of whatever, you know, it was some great title, but anyway, um, here is a, is a fleshing out of that story, but also it suggested in the opening scrawl that.

[00:10:34] His version was a gentler version that they made up so that children could pass it down. So we know that we're going to get some, maybe some darker differences, which we did. And it was fleshed out and the real story of what actually happened. So I thought that was cool. I mean, it still had that quick paced feel like it did when they first presented it in at the end of episode four, but just a little bit more fleshed out. But it was all, it was all meat, no fat. Exactly.

[00:11:04] Yeah. And I feel like when we watched that, we said, we would like to see like an episode dedicated to this or see like a show dedicated to this. Probably. I think this was the perfect set for it. And like, one of the first things that really stood out with this too, is this is, was just a one shot, like quick thing. And, but the acting in this was really good. Like for, for it not being like the same actors too, by the way. Yeah. And I don't remember, I don't remember if there was much, uh, talking when we, we saw this in the, the actual series. I don't know if there was, yeah, I can't remember. It, I don't fit.

[00:11:33] I don't remember it, but, uh, maybe it was not. I think it was just, uh, Tanner's voice, but I could be wrong about that. Yeah. Or video, but, but yeah, like the acting in this, I thought was really good for, for just kind of, again, they were, they've acted in it before and I'm sure this was probably filmed when they did it earlier, but for just being this little piece, they, they all did really well in it. Yeah. All right. Did you prepare a fucked up moment of the week or can you come up with one? Uh, yeah, I did.

[00:11:59] I put, um, so mine, it's definitely that chest baby. We've seen this thing multiple times, uh, in the, in the show, but it's, it's just like instantly, like you've got this demonic priest hovering over getting ready to eat. Like you think it can't get any worse. Well, it can, there's a chest baby popping out, trying to chew on some of the sides as well. Yeah, that's right.

[00:12:23] You're like, if you're in the middle of a nightmare and you're just like, ah, that happens, you're like, oh my God, it's worse. What the fuck? It's not even the eight, like the alien busting out, like makes sense. Cause it's at least hurting the thing. It doesn't even make sense. That's what I would be screaming. What the fuck, man? Uh, I, I don't know. I, this is probably a huge stretch because this is all about her fear of, uh, you know, colonizers from Europe.

[00:12:51] Coming in and missionaries who think that they have the one true God, which she had just said earlier, it was a vengeful God. And, and, and basically trying to wipe out their culture, which actually, you know, to a great degree did happen. And so, uh, they fear this new religion because like it, who are slash Pennywise, who's always hungry. The colonizers are hungry too for land and just to wipe them out.

[00:13:18] And the religion part is about their culture, their religious culture, subsuming the natives culture. So they just fear like Catholicism or whatever the religion is. And so I wondered if the little thing coming out of his chest and then I think there were lights above him. And I don't know if that was supposed to be the dead lights or what, but I wondered if it was supposed to be like a representation of the father, the son and the Holy ghost. And the guys like the son, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:48] Cause I know I assumed it was the dead lights. Cause I think there was, there's always three dead lights. If I remember from the show. Oh, and were there three here? I think, yeah, there was three there too. Yeah. Then that's what it is. I'm sure. Yeah. But maybe that's supposed to be like the Holy ghost and he's like the father and the little guys like the son. No, that makes sense. Yeah. Very sacrilegious, but okay. Well, uh, I want to talk a little bit about what you're saying.

[00:14:13] Like I, I haven't found anything definitive, but I do think that. Some version of this episode might've originally been meant to be a season one episode. Uh, and we do see some of the footage from episode four reused here. And the first season was originally announced as nine episodes and ended up as eight.

[00:14:37] And this special was directed by Tazba Chavez and cinematographer Tammy Riker's agency resume list. Tazba Chavez as having directed season one, episode five. So I think that may have been the intent and it just didn't work out that way.

[00:14:55] Um, also, uh, Chavez, there's some, uh, tribe newsletter that says, I don't know if Chavez, Tazba Chavez is a man or a woman, but that they wrap up to a woman that she wrapped her work in 2024. So all that's just to say that I think all of this was shot back then and meant to be its own episode. And they just decided to shorten it down. But then later for some reason decided to expand it out and do this special episode.

[00:15:24] And I'm glad they did because it added a few things that we didn't get before. Uh, one in particular that I'll talk about later that I think is really, um, adds a lot to the whole story. Yeah, no, I think, and that's really a good use of, you know, cause we hear a lot of like things get cut and throw on the cutting room floor, not make the season. But if it's going to add to it and not like deter from the overall idea of a show or movie or whatever, I think it's worth putting out. I mean, you've got it. People want to see it.

[00:15:52] And with like all these streaming capabilities, especially on Halloween, people are looking for something creepy to watch. And yeah, this is a little present. Yeah. Christmas or Easter. None of those things. It was a Halloween present. It was Halloween. It's like an Easter present. Okay. What else do you want to talk about? I think one thing I really, um, so we're talking about the priest and when he's fighting the mom, the thing that he says that I feel like it's, uh, the entity, it kind of giving away as weakness, but it's playing.

[00:16:22] But it's kind of coming out as the priest saying it, like the, the religion aspect you're talking about. But he said that for this, cause she's shooting with arrows and it's kind of starting to work. It seems like it's wearing him down, but he comes back and he says, for this to work, you must have faith. Your faith is insignificant. Which again, like you talked about from a priest perspective, what she fears, that's the priest telling like your religion is insignificant. Mine's the one true one.

[00:16:46] But from the it's perspective, it always feels like if somebody believes in something is going to hurt him, it will. But he goes on to it. So, so like I said, as the priest, it's showing his weakness because you're believing that it hit. But the, the part that it ties back to is early on when the, uh, the guy who was feeding them all the, was it Natig, right? His name? Matig? Yeah, Matig, I guess.

[00:17:10] He talks about how, uh, it likes to eat the meat that has the biggest dreams and the endless fear. So when you're talking about like this faith, children have the endless dreams or the, the biggest dreams in like the endless fear. So they have the ability to push out their, like these beliefs, whenever they're, if they're fighting it, like the imagination of a child is so huge.

[00:17:35] So it is going in and attacking these things that are basically the, its biggest, uh, weakness, its biggest fee, its biggest challenge. Yeah. Yeah. And you go back, they, they have the potential to be the biggest meal or the biggest threat. Exactly. Depending on, yeah. And so when I tie, what I want to tie back to is the moose, the moose of those hunters, that is the biggest meal, but also their biggest fear potentially because moose are extremely dangerous. So it's kind of, so it's a long way to get to this point.

[00:18:04] It's like the opposite perspective. Or like they both have the same perspective. Yeah. Like a long way to get to that point, but the moose and the fear for the natives and then the children. And the meal for it, for it long way to get to that. So you're basically saying children are moose or mooses. I mean, they can be, have you ever seen them tear through your house? What's the plural of moose, by the way? Is it just moose? I think it's just moose. I think it's just moose. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. I like that. And thought about that before. Yeah. You're absolutely right.

[00:18:32] Like it's the same thing because as a hunter, you have to gingerly approach your prey and some prey are more dangerous than others. And it has that same perspective probably towards children or it should, because if they know that they can defeat it with their beliefs, then they can turn that against them. Cool. Uh, let's see.

[00:18:55] I want to talk about the turtle because I remember reading the novel it and thinking, you know, here's a story about this evil entity that's creating nightmares in people. And that's just sort of a way for Stephen King to be able to create any kind of fucked up scenario that would scare people and scare us readers.

[00:19:24] But then there's this cosmic turtle that shows up at the end and that was crazy. Right. And it was like, I remember thinking it was so weird, but really kind of cool too. And fascinating. And that this turtle held the whole universe on its back. And then I was kind of disappointed that they didn't include it in the movies. Same. Yeah. You know? So now I'm, I love that they're adding it back in for this show.

[00:19:47] Um, so if you don't know in the book, this cosmic other dimensional turtle called Maturin is one of the forces of good in the Stephen King universe. He's a guardian associated with creation, balance and protection. He's basically the opposite of Pennywise. He's wise and good. And, uh, he's said to have created the universe by vomiting it up after a bad stomach ache.

[00:20:11] And, uh, some say that he comes from the same interdimensional space as it's called the toe dash space. But others say that he's even beyond that Stephen King fans argue about it, I guess. But, um, the whole universe is supposed to be balanced on his shell and he prevents it from falling into the void of the toe dash where all the chaos and the monsters are. And he's also for dark tower fans. One of the 12 guardians of the beams that hold up the dark tower. So he appears in other Stephen King works.

[00:20:40] And so at the end of the novel, it, he guides one of the characters, Bill as a child and resisting it during the ritual of Chad that they were using to try to drive it out. And then when they're adults, I forgot about this. I was, I just, uh, came upon it researching today, but Bill seems to encounter the turtles dead body. So then they have to carry the fight through without him. So I don't know if Benchurin is supposed to have died.

[00:21:08] I think in the book, Bill thinks that whatever power animated the turtle called the other still survives, but it's sort of unclear whether at some point mature and died. I'm sure Stephen King just wanted it to be like, well, this good force that was guiding you when you were kids isn't here now. So you're going to have to take care of it yourselves, you know, up the ante and the stakes. Yeah. But I, I, as we were watching the show, I predicted we would eventually see this turtle because references kept coming up.

[00:21:38] Like Lily had this turtle charm and she was one of only two kids to survive that attack in the theater at the beginning where we thought we met the cast of the series. And then they all got wiped out, uh, then at the school and other places, we keep seeing that birth, the turtle character who teaches kids what to do in case of a nuclear blast. Duck and cover. Uh, and then the episode four was called the great swirling apparatus of our planets function.

[00:22:06] And it just sounded like a grand cosmic title that seemed to point towards maybe being open to including this cosmic turtle that they had left out of the movies. And then, um, in the finale, uh, Rose gave Halloran mature and root tea to quiet the voices in his head. And he explained, she explained that that connected him to its realm or not. Everything was evil. So it seemed like they kept hinting at this turtle.

[00:22:34] But I think the thing I love about this episode the most is they just show it and it's the first time we've ever seen it in live action. And I was stoked. I kind of wish that it would have had featured him a little bit more, but it was kind of fun just to get a little quick hit too. Yeah. It was after all this turtle teasing, we finally got to see it. Yeah. Yeah. And it was cool. I liked the way they showed it. Yeah. It was a cool trippy thing. Like, I mean, it's interdimensional.

[00:23:04] And, um, it, the turtle didn't say anything or, but we know that it somehow told her what she needed to do to, to cage, uh, the entity it. Yeah. Um, so I, I did like that too. I was really excited to see it because that, that's a tough thing to, cause that's the thing when you're growing up watching these movies, like if you don't dive into the books and everything, or you stop reading like towards the, you know, the end of the book before you get to materan, you think it's just like this weird entity killer clown.

[00:23:37] Yeah. But there's this whole other cosmic thing to it. And sometimes I'm like, you don't see crypt. You don't see Superman sleeping in a kryptonite bed.

[00:24:04] And then here, and I wondered, you know, I've always wondered why was it in this meteor? And this episode says that was a cage that like maturing and it had a battle and maturing caged it and banished it to earth. I don't know if we've ever gotten that story before. Maybe we did, but I didn't remember. Not, and that's what I like about like a very concise episode like this because, you know, a lot of times there's lots of, like you said, fat and fluff to a show or a movie.

[00:24:34] And I think it talked about it being in a cage, but like, it's just like a quick throwaway line or it's tied into it. But I don't know if we knew that maturing put it in there. No, I don't think so. No, yeah, that's a good point. So that's new information. And also just maturing being the one to tell, I think it was Kino that tripped out on the hallucinogenic substance so she could commune with maturing and then came back. Oh, he told me what to do.

[00:24:54] And then it told maturing told her where to find the other shards to carve them into these knives or whatever, and to plant them around an area to contain it. And I just, while we were watching the series, that was one of my biggest complaints. Like, why did they think that that would work and why would it even work? But this completely solves it because I trust the turtle. The turtle knows. So just the fact that it came from the turtle means, okay, fine. You got me.

[00:25:23] Yeah, that's, I get it now. Yeah, I've always trusted turtles. That's, I'm a 90s kid. So the Ninja Turtles led my way. But I think one of the questions we had is like, why 13? Why not four? Why not five? Like, why not 26? And in here, like the very first thing. Because the turtle said so. Well, there too, but then the turtle shell is in 13 pieces. Oh, right. Like, there's 13 parts to it. So it all ties back to the turtle kind of leading the way there. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:49] And it's kind of like any time where, like, there's these weird things in shows. Dexter, you know, we just talked about Dexter. Dexter kind of has some of that where you're like, well, how did this happen? And when they take, like, five years off and they read, like, they kick it back up, they kind of go back and explain some of that stuff. And, like, I think they're doing a great job with this. Because, like, with the shows, with the movies, there was weird things where, like, I don't really understand, like, why this worked, why this happened. And the show expands on that and just kind of helps not perfect it, but give it a lot more context. Yeah.

[00:26:19] It makes me like the season better. Yeah. Yeah. Watching this, which is great, right? That's a bonus. It's kind of like how watching the Clone Wars cartoon make me like the Star Wars prequels more. That's a great comp, yeah. What else? See, I had Maturin. Talking on the drugs thing, I just want everybody to remember, kids, remember, drugs are bad. Yeah. Unless you're fighting an interdimensional demon, then. Yeah. If a wise-looking Native American gives it to you, go ahead.

[00:26:51] You know, I am curious about, so it's one thing that I struggled a little bit with this episode was Matig. Matig, because, is it Matig or Matig? I don't really know. Okay. We'll call him M. No, so the thing with him that I struggle with, so he obviously communicated with Maturin. Yes. But it's like he was still kind of worshiping it and Pennywise, or I guess not Pennywise at this point, but just it and the entity. Yeah.

[00:27:20] So I struggle with that a little bit, because part of me thought it would be kind of cool. It didn't actually happen this way, but when he's got the kids at the fire and he's feeding them, the one kid goes off into the woods, so he's kind of gotten away from the campfire and the dagger a little bit. But what I was thinking would be interesting is if Pennywise was trying to trick the kid into thinking that they were eating human food or human meat, because this Matig was kind of causing him a lot of trouble with the dagger and everything. Yeah. But it kind of...

[00:27:49] Yeah, because I didn't quite understand that Matig, like, he was killing his own tribesmen as a sacrifice to it, but I think it would prefer to do that itself. I would think so. And were they tribesmen or were they... I guess I thought they were... Were they settlers? I thought they were settlers. I think that at some point it might have said they were tribesmen. They were tribesmen, okay. But I'm not positive about that, yeah. Yeah, and that's the only part that was really kind of confused, because it seemed like he was trying to protect them. Because he said it demands sacrifices. He did, yeah. I think that's why I thought that.

[00:28:19] So why would he be... I don't think it would be considered a sacrifice if it was settlers. They're just kind of the enemy. I think it's more of a sacrifice if it's his own tribe. Yeah, and then he said something about giving the kids the food of the god, too. So it's like... That part was a little confusing to me, but... Yeah. I mean, it does tie... Like, there is historical... Or I guess it would be future reference when you're talking about this, because it took place in the past. But, you know, Pennywise used Henry Bowers that way.

[00:28:46] You know, had him attacking the kids and getting the kids into a position where Pennywise could destroy them and everything. So there is context for Pennywise using a person to help get his way. Or the entity. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's interesting to me, this whole character, Matig, or whatever, Matig, Matig, he's new in the story. We didn't get that from Daniel's telling.

[00:29:11] Like, in Daniel's telling, he said their wisest carved this dagger out of the material. And it became a protective weapon against the entity or whatever. And now we find out it's Matig, who I think murdered and sacrificed his own people. And so I wasn't quite sure what that added to the story, except to give this kind of horrific wrinkle to it.

[00:29:39] But it is interesting that the person who provided them with this protective object and also the hallucinogenic substance that showed them how to use it was doing bad things. He was sacrificing others to appease it while Nakani and her friends used his tools to contain it more responsibly. And so that's an interesting wrinkle. But also, they called him the wisest. That's what he was in Daniel's story.

[00:30:07] And he did have a lot of knowledge. He knew all about the turtle. And he's just not a good person. Can you be wise without being good? I don't know. But he was knowledgeable, at least. Yeah. And maybe he saw all the things and it kind of drove him insane. So maybe there's part of that, too. Yeah. But yeah, that part was a little confusing, which would be interesting to kind of dive into that a little bit more in like a one-off episode kind of thing to see how he got to that point.

[00:30:37] Because I think it's not as black and white. He's like, he's a villain. I think there was something like messed up with him in those events. And then this was his way of like... I think he was trying to survive. Yeah. But he did seem insane. Maybe he smoked too much of that drug. That could be. That very much could be. Again, kids, don't do drugs. Drugs are bad. Yeah. Because, yeah. Because, I mean, Matern, he'd be like, hey, Matern, should I sacrifice my brother over here? I mean, he was farting in his sleep and he's kind of keeping up.

[00:31:06] He was smoking a bunch of the root and I only got so much. And Matern's like, no, don't. He's like, I'm going to sacrifice him. Never mind. You don't know what you're talking about, Turtle. Yeah. I did sort of wonder that. Like, was he communing with the Turtle? And he was just like, like you just said, no, I don't like what you got putting out there, buddy. It's like going to confession. Matern's like, did you sacrifice another person? No, no. They're all fine. They're all good. Why don't they come to see me? I can see all. Yeah. He realized.

[00:31:36] All right. It's like last night I asked Bodhi, did you take a shower? And he goes, yeah. And I go, let me see your feet. And he got this look on his face. And then his feet were dirty as hell. He goes, but my hair was wet. And I'm like, that's because you probably went and got your hair wet. Yeah. And said you took a shower. Wash your whole body. The turtle nose. Yeah. I mean, I like the addition of this guy.

[00:32:02] And it was cool that when the girls went into the forest, these fucked up ghouls showed up right away. Yeah. And then he comes in and drives them away with his shard. And it reminded me of, I don't remember if I said this in when we did episode four, but of the pit girl scene in Yellow Jackets. Have you watched that? Yeah. Yellow Jackets. I'm all caught up on it. When pit girl in the very first episode, and then you see this masked person come up to the edge of the pit. It looked like that.

[00:32:31] But he's played by Zahn McLarnon, who I know him from Westworld. He was Akachita. Oh, yeah. He was also in Fargo season two, Reservation Dogs and Dr. Sleep. He's good. Yeah. Yeah. I liked his line when he saw him where he said, the turtle sure smiled on you today, didn't it? And then the boy, when they're walking away, is like, what turtle? Which is like what everybody's asking. Like, what turtle? What are we talking about? Yeah.

[00:32:59] And because they, yeah, that just showed that they didn't know anything about, and now they're calling themselves the tribe of Maturity. But if it wasn't for this twisted tribal guy, they wouldn't know any of that, and they would have maybe been wiped out by the entity. Yeah.

[00:33:18] You know, you kind of look at, if she didn't go into the woods to hunt and like kind of cause this thing to happen where she ends up communicating with Maturin and learning how to like stop or keep them caged, they would have probably been wiped out because the settlers would have came in. Uh, it would have got more and more powerful because it was already starting to come out of the woods and that could have been a point where they couldn't even have stopped it. So the, the right events had to happen to keep them trapped. Right.

[00:33:42] But I also like the through line of just the, these settlers, these colonizers are just fucking everything up. They're the ones who are going in and hunting in the Western wood and becoming prey and making it more powerful. And they're, um, they're fueling the tribes, people's greatest fears. And it seems like nothing they're doing is really helping anything. That's what it seems.

[00:34:10] And it also revealed that, uh, her, the Connie's mother, Seski said the pox killed her father. So I think that means that they brought an illness that ended up killing her father. Yeah. Yeah. Which, um, I liked that. Like the priests look like he had some kind of disease, which would have been what they would have saw coughing. Yeah. And the ghouls too. It's like, like what they probably saw was like the bodies after they probably died of this disease.

[00:34:38] So like what you're seeing is this like horrific of like the only image they ever have of these settlers. And I think that's just kind of cool to see that. Like your biggest fears portrayed on like this living ghoul person. Um, yeah, yeah. And that's, I, I still just like the idea of like, and the, the book did a great job of this is like getting people's biggest fears. Like, you know, when the book came out, jaws was a big thing, which I'm still scared of sharks, but there's references to like somebody being attacked in a pool by a shark and stuff like

[00:35:05] that, which it's just cool that Pennywise can do those kinds of things. And here seeing those different fears from the past. Yes. And it's great. Like, you know, I've always been for trying to take on the perspective of the marginalized and the oppressed and things like that. And this is a great way to do that. If you've never really thought about being a native American and just what it's like to just be minding your own fucking business.

[00:35:31] And then all of a sudden some people come along and just fuck everything up and wipe you out, wipe out your people. Right. So just to think, Oh, what would that person's greatest fear be? It's this like evil dungeon master looking priest, coughing his sickness on you and threatening to wipe out your culture, you know? Well, I mean, like the, I'm not sure. I'm, I mean, I'm sure native Americans had different diseases and things, but like something to come over like that, that your body's not even used to. And also, yeah.

[00:36:00] And somebody getting killed right away and you're like, what's going on here? Um, it would almost seem like some kind of higher magical power or something, something just, you just can't grasp at that point because you've never been exposed to it. And that was my fucked up moment of the week, by the way, was when he grew taller and his arms grew out and it's all like herky jerky and everything. That was so cool. I think we saw a little bit of that, I think in the show. Yeah. Not to this stage. Yeah.

[00:36:31] Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I have much more to you. Yeah. The only other note I have is something I love that shows do. So this is more of kind of what they did. Um, cause I think it was the Tom Cruise, uh, world war two movie where he's a German soldier did something similar. And I, maybe I'm looking into too much on this part of it for, for the show, but they started out in their native language and then it just shifted to English. And they did that in that. I think it was Valkyrie was the name of that movie. They used to do that in lost during the, um, shoot.

[00:37:01] What was the Iraqi guys? Uh, Saeed. Oh. Whenever they'd have flashbacks of him in Iraq, they'd start off with some, like, is it just called Iraqi? That language. That language. I love English. Yeah. I love that. Cause you're reading it and your brain, like it starts like just molding the two and then all of a sudden it's English. And so they're, they're, I think they're still technically, they're still talking their language, but it's converted to you at this point. So I love when things do that.

[00:37:29] Cause it really kind of sets like, I think like the culture a little bit and kind of like in which you kind of become part of that. Um, cause sometimes if you're like, you know, if you're watching a show that takes place in any country and they're, they're just automatically speaking English. Like you kind of have to subvert that expectation. Yeah. And you're just like, okay, well, yeah, I know they're in Mexico and they speak Spanish, but actually they're speaking English, but I have to pretend that they're speaking Spanish when they're actually speaking English. But this kind of helps, helps get you that, get that mindset. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:37:59] And they could either do it this way or cause they did both in lost actually in, um, son and jin's stories who were Korean, they would actually speak Korean with subtitles, but with Saeed who's Iraqi, they would do it this way where he'd start speaking Iraqi, but then fade in English maybe because probably it was too hard for the actor to speak the language. I don't know, but they both work pretty well. But I think, um, for this story, I'm glad they did it this way. Yeah, me too. Yeah.

[00:38:28] Uh, it also, this story, if people don't remember, set up the season, first season's climax where Rose gave Daniel the dagger to take down into the sewer and then he dropped it and Lily found it and she figured out it could repel Pennywise. And then also in episode seven, the black spots, Seski's spirits, the mom who we saw got killed

[00:38:56] by that ghouly priest guy helped Halloran rescue people during the big fire and then also helped him find a buried pillar. And then in the finale, the kids use that dagger as a replacement pillar to restore the barrier. So this is directly related to all that. And that's all I had. Do you have any other notes or anything else? Yeah.

[00:39:26] I think we kind of covered everything I had. So, I mean, definitely loved it. I, again, I, I feel like I don't get surprised by things as much anymore with the internet. And so when something just drops, like it may, it made me really, really happy to see that. So. Yeah, me too. It's fun. All right. Now, I mean, then I was like, do I have time to podcast? Oh, good. I do. That was another pleasant surprise that you were available. It's good. Worked out.

[00:40:33] All right. Let's get into a little bit of news. So the Welcome to Dairy season one finale aired last December, but HBO didn't officially renew it until August. Why did they wait so long? Eight months later, but they did renew it. So season two is going to take place as if you're paying attention, you know, in 1935, which is Pennywise's last cycle during the great depression and drawn the Bradley gang storyline from the novel. Um, Brad Caleb King is taking over as soul showrunner.

[00:41:03] Did you know that? Yeah. I think you texted me about that. Yeah. I'm kind of like, I don't know how I feel about that yet until I see it. I know it makes me a little nervous. Yeah. Me too. Uh, Andy and Barbara Muschietti are both still executive producers and Andy Muschietti still actively involved. Apparently, um, Bill Skarsgård is, uh, he's not going to be in it. Just kidding. He's going to be back as Pennywise. It's going to be one of the other scars. Yeah. Right. Stellan Skarsgård.

[00:41:30] No, uh, but you know, Brad Caleb Kane, what I like about him is he gets into this psychological storytelling that I like. What I don't like is he's attracted to things that can demystify the characters because I'm pretty sure if you watch crystal, like, you know what I'm talking about. And that makes me think that he was probably the one behind the idea of the military trying to harness Pennywise's power. And that was, I mean, it was okay, but it probably wasn't my favorite storyline of season one.

[00:42:00] We had a lot to say about that. I think it was. But if you go back to the 1930s, I don't know if there's any opportunity to do a story like that because there aren't these big technological powers, you know? There's just going to be some bootleggers who are still trying to make old whiskey and they're like, we got to make this clown whiskey. Harness the power of the clown. So I don't know. I'm keeping a hopeful attitude about it. I think it could be good.

[00:42:30] Kane himself described season two as bigger than the first with the feel of a depression era gangster movie. He mentioned Hoovervilles, which are, I guess, shanty towns that sprang up during the depression. Along with people riding the rails and religious fundamentalism. He said there's a different kind of Pennywise, which is intriguing, but also don't change them too much. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:42:57] Andy Muschietti told Variety, there's going to be a lot of that depression era hustling in the air and our characters are based trying to get by and survive the circumstances. They're going to do crazy things. And of course the social, cultural, horrible things that were happening in the era too. We're not going to skip that. They're the very center and heart of our story, which is good. I like how season one really took the time period and infused it into the story. So it sounds like season two will do that.

[00:43:22] And as for when we'll see it, Kane said in mid-October that they're about halfway through writing the scripts and had a production schedule and Andy Muschietti was casting. So reports suggest late 2027 or early 2028, but HBO hasn't announced anything. Yeah. Is all the merger stuff with HBO Max done or is that still? I believe so now. Okay. I'm not a hundred percent on that, but I think so. Why are you worried that it could change the plans? That could. Yeah.

[00:43:52] I always, that stuff always makes me nervous because if they have a hit show and then they're like, okay, we like, I know you've got like the scripts written, but it's easier just to scrap that and make our own thing. Yeah. So, but yeah, anytime you're talking like, oh, December of 2027, you're like, all right, it's going to be 28 sometime. Like you're not putting something on December. Probably so. Yeah. So yeah, it'll come out on Christmas day. They could do ads with him in his Santa outfit. That'd be great. Watch that.

[00:44:20] And then the terrifier just called a good Christmas, called a clown Christmas. Uh, all right. And then, uh, a couple other things. Stephen King's grandson, Ethan King is one of the writers for welcome to dairy season two. Brad Caleb Kane says he's brilliant and really smart. He's a chip off the old block. You can see why the Kings are how they are. It's definitely passed down genetically through generations. I mean, what's he going to say? I know. No, it's like, we brought in a King, but he sucked. What happened?

[00:44:50] He's like, wait, why can't we make this show anymore? Why'd our rights revert? Oh, somewhere in the contract. If you make fun of my grandson, I get my rights back. Right. And then here's a quote from Ethan King. He says, they told me just sit over there in the corner and shut your mouth. You're here purely for your name. No, I'm just kidding. Who knows? I hope he's great. Yeah, I do too. I mean, I'm sure like being exposed to that stuff, you've got to pick something up.

[00:45:15] I mean, his son, shoot, what's his son's name that he's got a lock and key. Yeah. He's got a pin. Joe Hill. Yeah. He's great. He's really good. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't listened or read much of his. I do a lot of audio books, but I haven't listened to much of his yet. Don't read in the tall grass. It's one of the most messed up things I've ever read. He wrote that. It's funny. It's like too, like you guys say messed up, but it's like I've read it and there's like a bunch of like messed up, non scary scenes.

[00:45:45] So I mean, uh, I'm going to beep this out. So listeners don't hear it, but I think someone. Oh, I think. Right. Like you told me about that. Yeah. That's pretty messed up. Yeah. Uh, Joe Hill, but he lock and key is, is one of my favorite comics ever. And then they made a show out of it. That was pretty good too. And he did that. Okay.

[00:46:10] Last thing, like with the other wax episodic podcast, eventually, maybe within the next couple of months or so, we'll be splitting this podcast out into its own separate podcast. It will still be in both places. So you can still listen here if you want, but it'll be in the new standalone podcast called Hiya kiddos. So that'll be fun. All right. We just had a couple of messages for listener feedback.

[00:46:38] The first one's from G Johnson, who says, I really enjoyed it. I'd love to see them drop episodes like this randomly from times in dairy when other crazy things happening during Pennywise is down periods. That'd be wild to see. Uh, Derek O'Neill says, hi, Jason and Sean. Hope you had a great Halloween of all the shows that were rumored to have a secret special episode between two seasons. This was the most surprising and most welcome. I love season one of welcome to dairy and I am so glad to receive the renewal for the second season.

[00:47:07] This, this short was a great expansion on the lore. Fantastic to see Zahn McLaren from Echo and Westworld here playing a very scary cannibal. Also excellent to see the materan, the turtle. He looks great and a real surprise that he was in this special. Look forward to hearing your thoughts and on to season two. Derek in Dublin. Thanks Derek. Yeah, I could like, um, if they could do a bunch of shorts on that too, cause like you

[00:47:33] could even do like some random kid in the, you know, the season one area, but just some random kid that didn't have anything to do with like the actual group we saw. It's just some kid that Pennywise attacked and you could create some really creepy vignette type episodes. Yeah. Yeah. It'd be cool if they could do more stuff like that. Yeah. And even like with this, it's proof you don't need scars guard in there, right? Like we did not see Pennywise at all and you could really do some cool stuff with that.

[00:48:01] I think you could also like overdo it, but. Yeah, no, I mean, this was, this was good. I liked the creepy, crazy scenes and the lore and it's all packed into a tight 30 minutes. Nice job. All right. That is our show.

[00:48:29] Thanks so much for listening. Good morning, everybody. Next episode of this podcast is Widows Bay season one, episode five. What to expect on your trip. If you're willing to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can send it to ignore the warnings at podcastica.com. Or you can come join our discord or our Facebook group and you can leave comments for that episode or chat with us and other listeners about whatever you want to. And I'll have links in the show notes for that.

[00:48:58] Also, this episode is made possible by Patreon supporters like Greg Schwamm, who pledged their support at patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi. Thank you to Greg. Greg actually did a podcast with episode with me about one of the it movies. It was either chapter one or chapter two, which was on my Patreon, but he's also hosted several podcastica shows and right now he's doing bakedastica with Jamie and Wendy on the Great British Baking Show.

[00:49:26] And just a perk recently that I introduced with Patreon. I mentioned it at the top, but it's that Dexter resurrection round table reaction. So if anybody wants to hear those or even possibly take part in one with me, just sign up for my Patreon and let me know. That'd be cool. And Sean, definitely. Yeah. Well, yeah. Let me know what day you're doing it. Super fun. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. Hey, what is that on your face? Hair. Ew.

[00:49:55] Like an Englishman?