Lanterns S1E3 "OutKast"

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmm... I can see it for you. I can see you wearing that uniform making us all proud. But I wasn't chosen.

[00:00:27] ...a black man has to raise his own hand. Doesn't mean you're not good enough, doesn't mean you're not better. It just means they don't see us. So we make ourselves seen. Now, if you want to stop trying for this, because we lied to you, I get it. But you can't worry about the choosing part.

[00:00:56] Choose yourself. Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast. I'm Jim. And I'm Kirk. And this is Wax Episodic. And this episode, we're covering Lantern Season 1, Episode 3, OutKast. Plot Summary

[00:01:25] In the past, John's father, John Sr., fails a test to become a Green Lantern, leaving him traumatized. Later, Liana, a member of the Guardians of the Universe, visits John's mother, Bernadette, and offers the family recompensation by giving John a chance to join the Green Lantern Corps in the future. When John is five years old, his parents train him to be fearless. Years later, John joins the United States Marine Corps and is assigned an assassination mission.

[00:01:54] But Hal's intervention causes it to fail. John is dishonorably discharged, and Bernadette enrolls him in art school so he can pursue his passion. In 2016, a Guardians recruiter approaches John, who successfully passes his test. Liana interviews him and accepts him as the new Green Lantern, but only under Hal's guidance as his apprentice.

[00:02:17] John returns home and finds Hal, who has told his parents the news, but privately tells John he does not need a sidekick or intend to hand over his ring. That was an interesting recap. I have a feeling most of our notes aren't going to involve much of that at all. But wasn't the compensation the big-ass diamond? Yeah, yeah. So, and they worked through that, but we'll get to that.

[00:02:48] We'll get to that in a second. I have lots of thoughts about this episode. I'm going to, first of all, thank you for joining us. Covering this show has been great. This is kind of our first opportunity, Kirk and I. This is the old daredevil combo for those of you that, for those 12 of you that actually listened to that. We're glad to have you back. This will be a little reminiscent for the both of us as we try to keep this at a reasonable time so that we both can go to, we're old and we need to go to bed.

[00:03:17] If we go longer than when Jason's here, we're like really bad. We're doomed. We're really bad. Three people to two and we add 30 minutes. All right. So, of course, we just want to let you know if you know anything about Podcastica, we're really a family of podcasts, a family of people. Check out all of our podcasts there. Of course, this one, Lanterns, it's been a lot of fun covering it and there's just a lot of shows for you to check out. So, please, please do that.

[00:03:46] Kirk, kicking it over to you. What are your general thoughts? So, we finally get... Well, first of all, let's let people know that usually we're the three amigos. Yeah. Jason can't be here today. He's a very pressing, important, couldn't be postponed, special thing he had to attend. Something I think called... A straw man? Burning bird or something.

[00:04:17] Oh! Yeah, so... Burning man! Burning man! You know, do you know the funny thing? I think you and I are the ones that convinced him to go to that. The next thing... We definitely didn't convince him to color his hair though. Yeah. The next thing you know, we're getting purple and... Purple and magenta hair, blue Jason. Jason, when you hear this to edit, you need to post that picture of you up on the Facebook for sure. Post it in the notes.

[00:04:45] I think everybody wants to see that. Yeah, I thought this was a great episode. Super deep dive into John's origin and background. Completely recontextualized his relationship with Hal for me. Sure. The episode did a great job of showing how, you know, like the expectations and levels of sacrifice that a person of color in America has to endure just to be seen, let alone chosen. I loved it. I thought it was really good.

[00:05:14] There are some lines. You know, I went to DC yesterday. My main goal in going to DC was to... I've never been to the... As many times as I've been there, I try to go there once a year. I haven't gone over to the Martin Luther King Jr. monument. And I went there yesterday. Really reverential sight. Had me kind of in my thoughts over the day.

[00:05:36] And then to watch this episode, the mom, the interplay between this family and being someone who's taught in inner city schools. Like I see they really did a nice job, I think, of showing us what even specifically in the 80s, what it was like to be a Midwestern black family, just a black family in America. I thought they did a really nice job of contextualizing that.

[00:06:05] Contextualizing the complexities of the story that maybe we've trivialized a little bit. I don't think trivialized is, but I think, you know, the... They did give a little bit of backstory to the William Tell Apple. And while I still think it's a ridiculous piece to it, kind of watching the substance of it, at least it gives it some context. So I do think they did a nice job telling the story. I do have some critiques that we'll get to.

[00:06:34] But without further ado, let's just jump into our points here. What's your first point? Well, basically playing up what I said at the beginning, I think that, you know, I thought it really beautifully explained the character dynamics between Hal and John that, you know, we've witnessed so far. The tension, the distrust, the disappointment that they each kind of share for each other, you know. And it puts it in a whole nother light. And we understand it so much better.

[00:07:04] I thought it was a thoughtful dive into the racial inequalities and complexities in this country. I don't think it's just in the 80s. I think it's right here and right now. Oh, sure. Okay. Yeah. It was also a really bold exploration into the process of how the Green Lantern is chosen. And I liked that a lot.

[00:07:25] But that it also, even though that was going on, you're also seeing the main topic here of the difficulty of being black in America at this time is the lack of awareness and sensitivity to the life of people of color in America is completely lost on the Guardian. And that just stood out, you know.

[00:07:48] So, you know, she's and the fact that she's presented as this kind of like typical older white woman, it made her the perfect metaphor for the fact that most of white America can't see the truth of what being black in this country is really like. Yeah. You know. Well, and when. It doesn't happen to me. So it must not be happening to them. Right. Right. You know, and I think that when the mother makes the comment, you know, gosh, it's even happening in the intergalactic world.

[00:08:18] I think they again kind of moving into telling a story through superhero lenses. I mean, they do a really nice job of that specifically with that character portraying her almost at a parody fashion of of white America and an older white woman. Yeah, that was that was that was really well, really well done.

[00:08:43] And the strong female character that they bring out. You've been kind of bringing her up, Bernadette. Yeah. She does a nice job of being the strong, powerful member of that family.

[00:09:02] And as as as somebody who, again, has taught in inner city for much of my career, it is not. It is not a parody to say that through much of my career. The strong female characters of families often for black families are matriarchal, whether it be a grandmother, whether it be an aunt, whether it be the mother.

[00:09:31] And this mom clearly was the driver of this family in many, many ways. You know, I think we had pictures of who dad was, which in great storytelling form, our picture of dad turned out to be completely off base, considering the fact that we hadn't met mom yet.

[00:09:49] And we meet mom and we realize a lot of the drivers of the things that we've seen, what he's allowed to do, who's he's who's he's who he is allowed to hang out with was driven through that strong black character in the in the mom who who really was kind of the the driver of who John became.

[00:10:09] Not not not that dad didn't play a part. Obviously, he did. Right. But we could see throughout that that that mom was well, I kind of saw it as John's father was unable to control his fear.

[00:10:30] Correct. And I think what the mother tries to teach John and why she does what she does. And I'm not sure it was the you know, the right way to do it. But who am I to say, you know, but. It's OK to be fearful. It's OK to have fear. That's a natural human.

[00:10:55] Phenomenon. But you have to face that fear and you have to not let it decide your destiny. You have to step above it. You know what I mean? And I think that's what that whole scene where it comes down and he says, no, I'm ready to do it. But I. I want to do my I don't want to shoot the apple off dad. I want to shoot off. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:11:18] And it was more like, you know, I realize now I understand now that it's not that I can't have fear. It's that I have to do what I have to do. And even though I am experiencing fear. Sure. And that that was we get this. We get to see mom. Scared shitless for lack of a better term. And it was I mean, I can't believe I'm going to say this considering he shot an apple off her head.

[00:11:47] I mean, it's almost like they heard our first podcast and they're like, you know, let's just go. Let's go all. Let's go all in on this. But. She she she she she tastes that fear. She later says one of the most powerful quotes. I mean, there's so many good quotes in this episode, but she says courage is is fear that said its prayers, son.

[00:12:12] And I was like, God, that's and you could see that mom over time understood that he couldn't just be fearless, that he had to have kind of that understanding of what fear was.

[00:12:28] And he had to have joy and you could see her not soften over time, but grow over time to the point where she was the one who got him to go to art school. She was the one who stood finally stood in front of that shed and and and let him shoot the apple off of her head in that that poignant moment after that.

[00:12:52] And of course, he he he admittedly decides that he hates cheeseburgers, which I actually thought had deeper meaning, too. But I don't want to hear too far off from your point because we were talking about racial relations. But in, you know, context to Jim and Kirk. Yeah. Hold on. Hold on, baby. Who knows where we're going with this? But I do think, though, just to kind of to kind of keep this kind of interconnected, I think the the family dynamics.

[00:13:20] I think we're we're a connection to that, that that racial piece that they were touching upon throughout this episode. And I thought they did it in a beautiful way and a brutal way. Well, which is the point of the William Tell piece. I mean, I thought one of I don't see people talking about it much online or anything, but I thought a powerful scene was when they drop him off in the bad part of town and he's going to walk home.

[00:13:47] And when he walks home, his mother sitting on the end of her bed looking like she's about to throw up. She's terrified. And, you know, I don't think she's worrying that she made the wrong decision.

[00:14:04] I think it's more that I think metaphorically it's you never know when you're I would assume in a I'm not black, but if I'm black family in this country, especially with things going there where they are now. Oh, you you you know, you don't just worry about them getting in a car accident or anything else that everybody else worries about.

[00:14:26] You have to also worry they're going to get pulled over by a cop, that they're going to get harassed some, you know, some by a bunch of losers in some street corner that some, you know, a tenant at a gas station is going to think he's being robbed and shoot him. You know what I mean? It's just it's just there's a whole nother level of of anxiety that a lot of of of the country doesn't have to deal with or doesn't deal with every day. And that's what I saw in her face.

[00:14:55] It was more like, you know, just is he going to make it home? And I thought that was powerful. I just wanted to point out that Vanessa Baden Kelly wrote the episode. Yeah, she is a black woman writer that is also co-show executive with Chris Murphy. She was a child actor for many years known for the Nick Jr. Show Kenan and Kel. Yeah, 60 episodes or something. Yeah.

[00:15:23] You know, I just think it's great that the Lanterns creators had the courage to have John's backstory written by someone that can speak from a place of authenticity and experience rather than, you know, what we usually get, which is like two old white guys in a room coming up with some stereotypical kind of story. So I think that the whole episode felt much different because of that and much was much better.

[00:15:52] Yeah. I mean, it gave it. Yeah. As you said, you know, us sitting here, two old white guys like talking about, I mean, obviously we can contextualize and we've lived life and we have brains and can obviously have empathy and sympathy. And but speak for yourself when it comes to the brains thing. Well, I could go that. Okay. Okay.

[00:16:17] But I, there were so many small parts of this that I think could only been told through the perspective of somebody who's lived through it. Yeah. The piece where she's so distressed about him coming home and then forces herself not to do anything. Um, let him feel, um, his own, um, fear as he like came kind of crashing in, in his bed.

[00:16:43] Um, she earlier very much contextualized what it was like to be a, a, a, a black person in this country when, uh, the guardian. Yeah. You know, he came to apologize, give her the diamond. And, and she said, how unfair is it to ask a black man in America if he's afraid? Yeah. And I mean, I, I, you know, and then she then put her son, uh, directly through that same thing.

[00:17:11] I think they told, I think one of the more interesting pieces to this separate of necessarily John is the story of their family. They very much had two other sons who seem to be living a fairly loving normal life that he didn't get to be a part of except in small brief pieces. Um, he wasn't allowed necessarily to listen to the same music and, but he would, we would get snippets of it.

[00:17:37] Uh, he, so clearly that TV scene that we were talking about last week, maybe contextually had some of that connected to what John was and wasn't allowed to do. Yeah. As opposed to what the boys were and weren't allowed to do, because obviously they were out playing. He wasn't allowed to go play with them. Uh, he wanted crayons at their birthday. They thought he was going to get a Jersey. He gets told he's going to be the next green lantern.

[00:18:01] You know, I mean, it's just a, you know, he, he lived a very specific life and I think what kind of came out of this. And, um, I don't want to blow by, I want you to be able to finish your point, but I think what came out of this was, was the sense to me that. John was a good person. And I, I, they taught, you know, they're setting him up as a sniper. You can shoot someone from a mile away.

[00:18:30] And of course you keep coming back to episode one where apparently how Jordan was sniped. So they're clearly, they're clearly setting up, um, this antagonistic relationship between the two. But the thing that struck me was that conversation about, you know, when he was getting interviewed and she was asking him if she liked how Jordan, uh, or hated how Jordan because of, you know, I mean, he basically, he, he took, um, his normal family life away from him.

[00:18:57] And he took his Marine Corps life away from him, which potentially could take being green lantern away from him. She's like, do you hate him? And you could see that was a painful question to ask him. But when he said no, um, it was very believable. Now he could be lying, but I think the guardians maybe would get a feel for that. I agree. It is, you know, he blames how for a lot, but there's an interesting case.

[00:19:26] I think it can be made that how, how may have known that the right thing was to capture the wolf. And put him in custody, not to kill him. And when he, you know, heard this from the military guys, he took off to go get him. So they sent obviously some sort of a missile or something to blow up the house.

[00:19:53] So he presents that from happening and he, and he, um, takes the wolf to custody, which all interrupts Jon Stewart. But as a result, Jon Stewart didn't murder anybody. And then he gets thrown out of the military, which he blames how for him, which is, you know, it certainly is rightfully blamed for. But by being thrown out of the military, his mother puts him into the art school.

[00:20:20] So now he can develop his creativity, his imagination, his passion. And in some ways, not murdering wolf, getting discharged, going to art school, developing that creative side of himself, kind of solidified for the guardians, their desire to make him a lantern. That may not have happened if he had murdered the guy and had continued to be a military guy.

[00:20:47] It all kind of had to happen that way because clearly the test he takes at the art school with the guardian is, you know, what kind of how creative, how imaginative will your constructs be? How authentic will they be? Obviously, that's really, really important to them. Gosh, what a beautiful scene that was, too. Yeah, it was. It really, really was. I just thought it was an interesting twist.

[00:21:14] I, you know, and I don't think Hal had any knowledge of any of this that he was doing. We don't. How it was affecting John. We don't think he does, right? No, I don't think he did at all. But in fact, I would make the case, I would make the argument that he was at the strip club because he was trying to find out this information. And he knew that's where the generals went. And I'm not trying to make Hal seem like some hero. He was, you know, certainly got a lot of bad points.

[00:21:42] But that isn't very unlike what he did at the bar in episode one. Right. Well, so. Right. I mean, he was trying to find information out and he knew where to go and he knew how to get him agitated and he knew how to make it happen and get him right next to the guy he wanted to see in the jail. So, you know, that was kind of his modus operandi. We still don't know Hal's backstory, right? We have snippets of his backstory. We have snippets of a hero.

[00:22:10] We have snippets of an anti-hero. Right. So we don't know, you know, you mentioned this and, you know, how much of what he is doing right now with John is pure and how much is it an act to get him to be more ready? We don't know the answer to that. I think that you looking, I think the interesting thing about what you just did with the scene where he gets kicked out of the Marine Corps. It comes out in the episode that he didn't really care about the Marine Corps.

[00:22:39] He just did it because it was part of the checklist. Right. You know, so while you can look at it as a bad thing in his life, that the perspective can be flipped on its ear because truly him getting kicked out of the Marine Corps did spur on the art career, which created that, which really enhanced that creative mind, which in turn let him create that watch.

[00:23:06] Not only that beautiful, beautifully detailed watch, but the beautifully detailed watch that worked. Right. And just like the bird that worked. Right. So, well, right. So we're getting to see a little bit more. And, you know, the bubble wrap sort of starts making a little more sense now as being something a little more creative than, you know, bubble wrap. Right. A box or a metal box or, yeah.

[00:23:31] The creativity doesn't necessarily translate to flying yet because he doesn't have that language in his body. Boy, oh boy, I can't wait to see what he does. Yeah. Because you can see, I mean, we'll get into comic book talk a little bit about John Stewart over the years, but there's a lot. But that bird that he controlled without the ring, there's a lot more to that than meets the eye if they stick by the comics.

[00:24:01] Which brings me to point number one. The story that they're creating is a very unique Lanterns story. Obviously, the John Stewart, Hal Jordan storyline is definitively comic book lore. Yeah. But what they're doing. And the fact that John was going to be his replacement. Sure. That's all from the comics.

[00:24:30] Yeah, that's canon. But what they're doing, which is very similar to Watchmen, the series, is they are digging into the finer details and they're shifting them and they're changing them. And they're using characters that we know, but not necessarily in the way that we know them to create this whole new story, this whole new complex story that gives us this. For lack of a better term, that gives us this.

[00:24:58] And this episode wasn't even that, but gives us this, you know, this Midwestern police detective story, the backstory, the enriching details. They are definitely using to create this whole new story that still honors the original, but is creating a whole new thing for the television show. And I think it's expanding it dramatically and also taking it deeper, you know. Yeah. And I'm loving it. Well, so we've got the Gray Wolf.

[00:25:27] We'll get to, I'll talk a little bit about him in Comic Book Talk for those of you that want to know. We'll talk a little bit about this Leanna character, the guardian that Laura Linney plays, who is a comic book character, seemingly very different, but we'll get into that during Comic Book Talk. I just wanted to say about her that I thought it, you know, at the top I said that I thought it was great for two reasons.

[00:25:54] One, you know, being the struggles and sacrifice people of color make in America, but also about the process and the exploration of that process of choosing a Green Lantern. And this was really a deep dive into that, you know, I mean, between the art school thing and the tests that he had to do there and the way that the questions, the sitting overnight and just really pretty cool.

[00:26:21] And I think that also, that's kind of more on the specifics, but in the general way, it was interesting when this conversation the guardian had with John's mom, Bernadette, it's clear that they're trying to be responsible in their bringing humans into the Lantern Corps.

[00:26:44] And they weren't prepared for it because obviously we're kind of unique, I guess, in the universe. And, you know, the human emotions and our traits are posing a big challenge for them. But I liked the fact that she reached out to apologize. She reached out to say, look, you know, we're trying to do this the right way.

[00:27:12] And I thought that was pretty, I thought that was, that was cool. It gave me a better feeling about the guardians. Sure. You know, it's up to this point. What we've been hearing from Hal's point of view is kind of like the guardians were not so great. And then we heard from the guy that kidnapped John, you know, that the guardians weren't that great. And so you're kind of getting this attitude.

[00:27:34] Well, maybe the guardians are kind of bad guys, but this showed us that, you know, there's always different angles to every, there's different sides to every story, you know? So. Yeah. Well, and you tie that to, I mean, I mean, one of my points was the guardian specifically. Um, so let's just dive into that a little bit. Sure. Uh, it's funny because there is that side of it. Um, I was looking at it a little bit different. I was looking at it as a payoff.

[00:28:04] Um, I don't think so. I think it was, I think it was a, I think it was an effort to say, Hey, you know, here's, here's what we're trying to do. And this is why it didn't work out for your husband. Um, and we understand that this has caused trauma. It's not what our intent was. Um, and we feel bad about that. We want to compensate you as best, you know, the only way we know how at this point, which is to provide you with income. And that diamond should have lasted. That diamond should have, that thing was huge.

[00:28:35] I don't know how that didn't, he was in later in the next later scene. He's like, yeah, the diamond money's almost run out. I'm thinking that fucking must have been millions and millions of dollars. Yeah. But anyway, well, and who knows what they got for it? Because mom did note, they didn't believe it was their diamond. So, I mean, that's true. That's true. That's a good point. That's a good point. Figures another, another little glimpse as to how life is different. Um, but yeah, I thought that was, I thought that was good.

[00:29:02] And I think also the guardians weren't done with this family. And so she wanted to have a connection with her. She wanted to, um, she didn't, she wanted to, they still want John. They wanted to develop John. They wanted to see John develop. So they, she implants that kind of in her head. Um, is, you know, this is, this is another opportunity. So in that way, they were a little bit manipulative in that sense.

[00:29:31] Well, so there are a couple little things about this though. Um, first off when he shows up at the abandoned mall, uh, and he walks into the office for a split second, we get to see another prospective green lantern walk out the door as he's walking into it. You don't know that. That might've been another guardian. I don't see my guardian. I see, no, I see here. I have a whole different take.

[00:29:57] Now I, I, I do think that with the guardians, what they show the guardians here, um, doing is, is not understanding humanity at all. Uh, I think that historically, um, is, is brought up in episode two, they created the manhunters, right? And they didn't understand them, which led to catastrophe.

[00:30:24] Well, we've only heard that the, that one character's point of view on the man, the manhunters. Right. Well, correct. Correct. Um, but it seems to me that what they are looking for and what they want John to be is what Hal is not. Hal is a wild card. Hal was not their first choice. Hal was their second choice.

[00:30:49] And I do want to make note of that simply because we see the father in this episode as being, I don't want to say weak, but being a little bit afraid, angry, a little bit out of control, but he was their first choice to be green lantern. Uh, mom says it best. Like we want to create John into what made them want you to be green lantern and make that

[00:31:19] mate and what they don't want and what they currently have right now with Hal Jordan. And what they don't want with Hal Jordan is the fact that he'll just do whatever the hell he wants to case in point. He goes and grabs gray wolf kind of on a, we think kind of on a whim that may prove to not be true, but he's clearly not bound necessarily by the guardians. And that makes them nervous.

[00:31:44] Now, what they want John to be is they want John to be exactly the opposite. They want him to be controllable. They want him to be there. And I, I, I don't feel that John is this character, but I think that's on, on purpose and perhaps why Hal is treating him the way he's treating him. Um, they want, they want John to be their puppet.

[00:32:09] Now, I think it's evident to me that John is not going to be that. I don't know if I agree with that. I don't, I don't know if I agree with that. They want him to be, um, committed to, um, um, the process and, and loyalty and, and, and, and commands and all that stuff. I agree. Um, because Hal definitely is not.

[00:32:37] But they also don't want someone who is going to be susceptible to, to what, to, to forces that will be trying to, to take control or modify or change. I.e. Sinestro. Yeah. Yeah. We'll maybe talk a little bit. He was a great lantern who went bad.

[00:32:57] And I think their fear is that Hal is starting to act on his own, with his own missions and his own ideas, which is dangerous, especially having been trained by Sinestro. So they're looking for somebody who's very committed to, you know, following the rules and, and, and direction of the leadership. So that's why they're focused on that. So a puppet then.

[00:33:28] Yeah. Well, I think, I think, I think we both could be right here, right? There's a fine line between being that moral level six. Sorry. I'm using a school term being that moral level of person who does the right thing because it's the right thing to do versus. We've got this guy who's going to do everything that we want him to do, and we don't have to worry about him going rogue. Now I do agree with you. I mean, we don't know the Sinestro story in, in the, in, in the show cannon yet.

[00:33:57] We know he's in jail. Um, well, I'm sure that's coming soon because we ended episode two with, we get a whole episode. It's like, here's Sinestro pause. Let's find out about John for a whole episode. I, I, I, I have to imagine episode four is going to have a bit of that, uh, in it. But, but I, I, um, I, I, I, when I go back to the guardians and I say they don't understand humanity, I think that they're highly intellectual.

[00:34:26] I think that they are probably the most intelligent beings in the DCU. I think that a lot of times when you see someone with that high intelligence, they often don't offer practical common sense. Um, and I think that sometimes they go too far.

[00:34:49] And I think we're going to come to find out again in a show that I think, um, where these guardians are worried that, you know, how's going to break bad the same way that potentially Sinestro did that ended up him getting him in prison. I think that we have a multitude of, of characters here that either through choice or perhaps through ignorance aren't necessarily heroes. Um, what makes John to me an interesting character.

[00:35:19] And I think that, that perhaps is what you're picking up on here is that he feels to me like a hero. Well, I, I agree with you. And I think this, this is where we, you and I can find common ground on this, on this particular point. I don't think John, just because he's loyal and committed to following orders, um, is fully baked yet. Correct.

[00:35:46] And I think, and I think that as a hero, and I think that that's really what this story is going to be about. It's how, you know, the, the guardians and his family have taught him the importance of not, you know, not letting your fear control you and following orders. Hal is going to teach him how to follow your gut, how to listen to your instincts, how to do the right thing. When someone above you tells you to do the wrong thing. Yeah.

[00:36:16] Because what's funny, what's, what's funny about Hal is that he does very blatant things currently in this current, his current role. He does some very blatant things that are certainly suspect in the moral compass, like creating, creating a dollar or creating a bottle opener.

[00:36:35] Um, yeah, it might not be what like, you know, your high moral, like, yeah, I'm not going to make a bottle opener to open a beer with, but in the big, in the big grand scheme of things.

[00:36:48] Um, it's, it's, it's not as important as taking care of those big issues that Hal Jordan has done in the past as one of the first superheroes and seems to be doing now. Perhaps with 10 years of baggage clamped to it.

[00:37:13] What I, what I think you noticed last week and what I noticed last week that we didn't really talk about a lot is while their relationship last week was very much antagonistic. See what I saw and I caught whiff of you seeing it too, was Hal Jordan, Hal Jordan seeing that John was probably more pure than meets the eye.

[00:37:40] We saw a couple of very respectful moments from Hal in the mix of his like wallowing and, and, and squalor of being, you know, isolated and not listened to and potentially on the chopping block of being a superhero.

[00:37:54] And I think what we saw today and, and, and, and this week's episode is we got to see John kind of becoming this not yet baked hero, but who's looking at how and parsing out those hero qualities, seeing kind of that thing that you were just mentioning. Um, the, the person who Hal Jordan really is, and not necessarily the person that turned into what he is right now, um, over the past 10 years.

[00:38:24] And again, really curious to find out, um, some backstory for how, because I think that's going to be a really interesting story to tell. I'd love it to be next week, but if they don't put Sinestro in, well, and see, that's the thing I think with, with how Jordan's story, I think obviously we're going to get some Sinestro there too. So perhaps that Sinestro, uh, interview becomes, um, a tale through Hal's backstory.

[00:38:49] But yeah, I, I, I, I'm so intrigued by what's going to happen with, with John's character. I love the idea of him being, you know, a hero being baked right now, um, into, uh, a fully functioning superhero, uh, that can be the standard bearer for the lanterns as it's, you know, for lack of a better term is it's the Messiah.

[00:39:14] Uh, and, and, uh, because there definitely are some traits to him that I don't think any of the other lanterns have, uh, with our, with our knowledge of being our, the three lanterns that, well, two lanterns that we know with the potential of a third to show up. Yeah. Yeah. So anyways, yeah, I, I, the guardians, um, again, are, are, I think put in place at the, at the bare minimum, Kirk, this is where we can agree.

[00:39:41] I think they're, they're put in place as a potential, as another potential quote unquote bad guy. Um, but I also agree with you. Like, I mean, they, they've been standard bears in, in, in the universe. And I think, um, I don't see them. I, I, I don't think I'll ever see them as the bad guys. Um, I think it's just, we'll talk, we'll talk about, well, they're like the corporation or the police force or the, you know, I mean, they're, they're trying to do good things, but. Okay. So there's our common ground. They don't always, they don't always do the right thing.

[00:40:11] Well, right. And maybe, maybe the, the, maybe it's not the group doing the wrong thing. Maybe you've got one or two that, that are kind of, right. Or the, or the bad seeds. And that's where we can, you know, we'll table some of that. I think the common ground for us is that John has to come to terms with the reality that for him to be whole as a superhero, he's going to have to give up some of the, not give up, but he's going to have to,

[00:40:37] to question and challenge some of that blind following of orders. You know what I mean? Yes. And I think that's, he's, that's what he's going to learn from Hal. And that's what he's learning from Hal. Yeah. You know, Hal's a sloppy mess, but that doesn't mean he hasn't got information that is going to help John. Well, I, and. Or aspects of his personality that'll help John. Hal, and I mean, this is silly.

[00:41:04] Uh, the show can be silly, but I think Hal noting how proud he was when he hooked up with the wife. Did show John, you know, but, but to the bigger point, um, I do think that Hal is looking for that in him is looking for him to have. At some point for him to tell maybe Hal to, you know, to fuck off. Like, you know, I'm not. I don't know. I don't.

[00:41:35] I, I didn't see that, that, uh. No, I see that way. I was like, kind of like old. I was kidding. Misogynistic kind of male bonding type stuff. I think it was more things like not letting the authorities at the football field push him off the field or not let him get involved. It's like, yeah, I know you're the cop. I know you're in charge. I know this doesn't look like it's alien, so I don't have jurisdiction.

[00:42:01] But I'm going to push my way in here anyway because something doesn't smell right. And that's not something that John at that point or this point would have done. He was, you know, wait a minute. She said you shouldn't do that. And it's like, dude, you can't always just go by the rules. You know what I mean? Or else you're going to get people who are in charge of the rulemaking or sometimes the bad guys. Right. That's, that's what he's trying. I think that's what he's trying to teach John.

[00:42:31] And I think that's what John will get out of the relationship with him. He's an asshole though. The fact that he went and told his parents before he did that. What a horrible, mean, and especially after we get all that background on his origin and his history with his family and how much that must have meant. And just to have that stolen from him forever. That's an unforgivable thing. That's an unforgivable thing. That was terrible.

[00:43:00] And yet, I think it's potential. I think it's potential that, I mean, I don't know about forgiving him for that. I think. And yet we have the potential for a very interesting relationship between these two characters. I'm starting to develop some theories about what we see in episode one. Every episode seems to bring us up a rung on the ladder about who these people are.

[00:43:28] I'm very curious to see how, as a team of two, these two come together or don't. I think the potential for them not to is still there. But we'll see. I think that they're prying enough of a difference between comic book lore and show lore to at least lead us down a path where these two may not be friends at all in any way. I think that's possible.

[00:43:57] I also think it's possible that they are. But. Oh, I think they will be. And I think. And it seemed to me that that's already been told to us when in 2026, when they find his dead body, John leans down to see if he has the ring. And if you still stop that, there's a tear coming down his eye. Yeah.

[00:44:23] Um, he's sad about the fact that he's, you know, lost Hal and Hal's leaving. I think there's a lot of their relationship that is yet to be shown to us that this is we're in the early stages and it's, it's rocky right now. But I think they're both going to learn a lot from each other as it should be. Why are the guardians tall motherfuckers? Yeah, they're not. What the fuck? Right?

[00:44:51] I mean, well, and what's funny about that is in the trailer, we see that scene. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So my working assumption when they showed it because of how tall they were was that we were looking at Martians, white Martian. Yeah. White Martian or Martian Manhunter. Yeah. And, you know. That's so funny. They've just made, they've just made. So, you know, I, this isn't spoiling anything.

[00:45:18] I, you know, in comic books, the, the guardians are definitively, at least the versions that I grew up with. I, I, I don't, I don't think that's changed. They have been small creatures. They're very small, huge heads and blue. Yeah. And they got the blue part and that's about it. Yeah. Yep. Um, so yeah.

[00:45:40] But then again, maybe, maybe that was done purposely by the guardian to just, uh, you know, be somewhat truthful with her, but not too shocking. Sure. I don't know. What would be shocking about being short? I don't know. It doesn't make, didn't make a lot of sense. Yes. Loved the, loved the use of birds. Yeah. So that was a point. That was a point.

[00:46:03] Um, I, so in this episode, um, mom kind of feeds into, I think what's been kind of going around the internet that we've, I think, talked about it last week. That there were birds that potentially were spying on John. I don't think we talked about this. Did we talk about this last week? No, no.

[00:46:27] Um, so, so I think when we see the bird at the beginning, um, some form of blue Jay, it looks like, and, and I didn't get a chance to look it up, but I was going to, uh, mom mentions that these are the guardians checking up on him. So the young John Stewart is grows up with this thought that he's being spied on by these birds. Uh, later on, she admits that she was lying.

[00:46:55] Um, and of course we have that scene at the end where this bird flies up. She, she, she, she may have been lying, but it was true. That's, that's what I got. So, so that's what I, that's the impression that I got from that last scene. I mean, they're shape changers. Plus the scene where these in, where he goes to the interview and she makes him sit there overnight in the middle of his overnight stay in that chair where he didn't even lie down. What the fuck?

[00:47:22] Like a bird comes on the windowsill and sits there and looks in and stares at him. And it's that, it's that same bird. It's a, it looked like a pigeon. It wasn't the blue Jay. I know the blue Jay you're talking about. Yeah. Um, it was just, uh, it was just interesting, but it's just, you know, now we got a lot. We got the story as to why the bird, you know, in episode two, it was like, why the bird? And he's like, ah, it's just a bird. It wasn't just a bird. Birds mean have meant, he has always thought of the guardians.

[00:47:51] In the sense of a bird. Well, there's the picture that he's, you know, he's in art school, happy. He's drawn a picture of a model. I was trying to figure out if he's drawn his mom. I think it was a model. They show him drawing the picture with birds next to it. Uh, and I think the birds were his addition. So they become very important to him. Yeah. Whether it's because he doesn't trust them or because he connects them to his mother, which is what I think it is.

[00:48:18] I think that there's meaning to these birds because of them being connected and interrelated with his mom, um, or perhaps his family. I, I'm not really sure. I think that, um, the, the subtleness of it, um, of, of those birds being an important character. You know, you said last week, these are going to come back into play. I don't know that you meant this.

[00:48:45] No, I didn't, but I think it's been, was a great way to do it. Sure. Sure. So, so yeah. So I, I do think it does add, I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a double edged sword. We've got, you know, the complexity of, of what he can create. The fact that he created a living being that continued to live after the ring was off his finger.

[00:49:06] Uh, and then we have this, um, this bird that could be something in his brain and he kicks his mom, but also something that could be spying on him, which, you know, you see the, the, the, the, the sharp edge that he seems to be standing on throughout the series. Uh, it's certainly, um, well, the guard, the guardians being shape changers can take, take, take any form. Sure.

[00:49:30] And a bird is perfect because you can be unsuspected and, and, and be right on top of a situation and be able to hear it and understand what's going on. I think, I, and I think he, his connection to the birds is not only because of the connection with his mom, but which I agree with you on, but also I think he grew up thinking the guardians were watching him. Um, and I think he still feels that way. Um, and clearly they are, you know what I mean?

[00:49:57] And now he knows that, you know, so that was cool. Well, and, and I, I think that, you know, however he relates the bird to who he is, um, whether he connects it to the guardians, whether he connects it to being a green lantern, which has been a part of his life since he was a baby. Um, to me, I think that, that, that bird in, in a lot of ways is approval for him.

[00:50:26] I think that, um, those birds have shown up in times of stress and times of, um, is either his mom making it stressful saying it's the guardians. I'm sitting in that chair, wondering what this interview is going to be about, wondering where the hell they are. Um, and then at the end, um, almost, almost like, you know, they're like buddy cops. This bird like flies up right next to him and he cut, they both kind of look at each other before the bird flies off.

[00:50:52] Um, I, I, I think that what's funny to me again is, is what we're agreeing and disagreeing on. It's to me, what makes a good show? Because I see your perspective. I also see my perspective. Well, just saying like, what's your, it's possible. How's your, how's your perspective different? You don't, it's, well, I said, I, I'm not convinced that it was a guardian. I think it could have been the bird. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:51:19] I think it, I think it really could have been bullshit, but I also see your point. Like it, it, it, she told us, maybe she, she just was flying in the dark telling him that and it turns out that's actually what it was, um, a guardian spying on him because they certainly played it that way. You know, at the, the, the last scene with, with, with the bird, I thought, yeah, maybe, maybe because it was the same bird that he had seen before. Hmm. Um, and it was a bluebird, you know? Yeah.

[00:51:49] Yeah. So also birds fly and green lanterns fly and that's his dream. So, so why, why do you think that? Why do you think his construct was a bird? Was it just for the fact that when he thinks flying, because that those birds have played such a big part in his life, that's what, that's what pops up. Yeah. That's what I think. Yeah.

[00:52:16] I think that, that it's just, they've been, and now we know why they've been a part of his life for so long and why they've been, it's so important and why they would, it would come up in his unconscious, you know, when he tries to do something like that. Yeah. Um, you know, I mean, honestly, that's probably trauma, trauma related really. If you think about it, you know, I think a lot of his life has been informed by trauma

[00:52:38] that he's been taught, um, to accept as reality, uh, which actually brings me to my next point. Um, the building of a green lantern, uh, we get to see this really complex life that's built

[00:53:02] for John in the midst of other kids, uh, in the family where we have a family that was offered the opportunity to have a member of it become the green lantern. And in that failure, a mother fights for her son to get the opportunity that her husband didn't get. And to do that, they decide to build a fearless son.

[00:53:31] Um, obviously you and I are both parents and in a perfect world where you're just trying to build good kids, not necessarily the next green lantern. I think you and I can both agree that there is a daily level of fuck up that parents bring to the table. Um, and I think that what's, what I love about the story is somehow through the callousness

[00:53:58] of creating this fearless kid through good writing and good acting, we're shown a family that actually has a lot of love, a family that actually cares about each other and they don't play this one tone. Um, they realize throughout building the screen lantern that there's far more to it than just building someone who's fearless, as you mentioned.

[00:54:26] Um, and that curl courage does take kind of owning the fear and understanding the fear and building a full character, someone who can feel joy, which we don't see from John very much, um, through this episode. Um, not through this episode, but through the series up to this point, which, um, has more depth than three episodes for sure.

[00:54:46] Um, so ironically enough, I think they have done a good job building a green lantern. Um, I think that a lot of what they've done has worked to an extent, but I think what we're finding out is John Stewart, the human being has something a lot deeper, even than everything that they've trained him to be.

[00:55:13] He's someone who's curious, who asks lots of questions, who sees honor, but is also willing to learn and listen. And he does that in every scene that he's in. He's not just listening to how, like he's listening almost to everybody. And maybe one thing that I didn't see that you pointed out last week is, and I don't know that I necessarily agree with it, but him having the same trait as how him working the

[00:55:39] wife, uh, Eve, I think her name is Eva, uh, whatever. But him, him potentially working the wife for information as opposed to her playing him. Isn't it Zoe or something? Zoe, Zoe, Eve. Zoe, yeah. I don't know. Adam? I don't know. A whole nother show. A whole nother book. Zoe, Zoe, um, in the diner scene, uh, which on one side of the coin is her manipulating him.

[00:56:07] But I do love the idea that he's manipulating her to get information. And, uh, but what, what you see with John throughout this is he learns and almost every scene that he's in, you can see him paying attention. You can see him listening and watching. You can see him asking questions and being curious. In the 2026 version, there's definitely more feels to that character in the three minutes we get to see him, uh, as opposed to what we're getting now, almost a stilted version of him.

[00:56:35] Someone who's pissed off or flat and, and flat's not the right word. That's not giving the actor enough credit. It's definitely more complex than that. Um, but I do. You're talking about Hal? No, no, no, no. I'm talking about John. I'm talking about John. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. John is the anti how like how's emotions are all over the fucking place. Whereas John is pissed off by that is trying to understand that. Um, and doesn't really, uh, but still shows him respect because of who, how Jordan has

[00:57:04] been over the course of his life. So I just, I, I, I love the building of this character, but I also love the, the way that the character is being portrayed through the writing and also through the acting of being something more. Uh, and, and you get it, you got it from the child actor, um, who was unbelievably good. Yeah, it was good. Yeah.

[00:57:27] Uh, and, and then all of the varying degrees of who John Stewart was, he didn't want to be a Marine, but he, he was, um, he was because that's who his dad was. He could kill somebody from over a mile away. You know, he wasn't only good. He was elite. Um, when they thought he was dead, he was still there for nine months. We get to see him through the seasons. Um, and, and, you know, and, and that short little scene, we get to see, you know, him,

[00:57:56] the dedication to the craft of him murdering some potentially murdering somebody. So, so I just, I, I, I love the tones that they're giving John Stewart. He feels to me, um, he feels to me like the hero of the story. And I think that's the point. I think we've said it before. Like this is obviously his show. Um, but I, I think he's in the midst of a lot of really fun character performances.

[00:58:23] Uh, uh, this, this actor is, is just, I think playing it wonderfully brilliant. And I think that they built showing how they built John to be who he is right now. And then showing what John brings to the table, uh, is, is, was a lot of fun, which to me made this whole episode. It was fun to see air Pierre carry this whole entire episode.

[00:58:49] Uh, again, a lot of fun character performances from Laura Linney, from his mom characters and from that younger actor. But I think, I think we get to see just a really good acting performance from, from, um, a man playing John Stewart, this, this key down character, this conflicted character, but we do get to see kind of that inner turmoil kind of build who he is. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:59:16] I, you've made me, uh, think about something else with regards to where John, I think is going to need to develop more. Um, and the guardians are aware of this, it seems because she quizzes when she's asking him questions and quizzing him. She's very concerned about what's his relationship now with the family. Yeah. What's the, you know, well, how connected is he? And he's basically like at 18, I got the hell out of there basically. You know what I mean?

[00:59:44] Um, so the connection is not great. Doesn't sound like, uh, well, we know he has contact. We know he has contact with one member of his family. Oh yeah. Well, well, probably both. Cause yeah, I would assume they were both there when, when, um, how came and spoiled the whole news, but, um, well, well, you know, what's funny though. So is my point. Go for it. So I, and I think Hal has nobody else in his life.

[01:00:14] All he has is his structure, his orders, his routine and all that. That's all he's had all his life. And, and that sweet ass house. And Hal, you know, Hal, though he also has nobody in his house, you know what I mean? Um, did I say Hal? I meant John has nobody in his life. Sure. Um, and he's just about following the rules and following his mission. And he's just, that's it.

[01:00:41] It's kind of empty on the other side, on the emotional side. And, um, and we know Hal has no, nothing in his house other than that crazy plant. But, but Hal. Fucking Earl. Hal connects with people. Hal, um, spend time shaking hands and talking with people and being nice to the public. He, he, he's clearly flirting with the sheriff.

[01:01:07] He, he wants connection with her and his connections with her is helping him solve his crime at the same time. Um, so working with people and being human and connected and having empathy and, and emotional connection. Hal definitely has that nuance for sure. Right. And, and John doesn't have that. And it is something it seems like the guardians are worried about because of all of her questions regarding that. She's like, aren't you going to be lonely?

[01:01:31] Aren't you going to be, you know, have trouble, you know, are going to be uncomfortable constantly having to be away and yada, yada, yada. And, um, you know, so they're concerned about that. And so I think, you know, in addition to, um, learning how to trust your instincts, trust your gut, um, buck authority in certain situations.

[01:01:53] John, I think is also going to learn how about the importance of being human and being connected with other people and, and being open emotionally to some degree. Not that Hal's all that emotional, but, um, connected, but you know what I'm saying? Sure. Yeah. I, gosh, that's a good point.

[01:02:16] I, I, Hal is such a broken character, but in a lot of ways he is a hero personified, right? Like when he's in public, um, in certain situations, I mean, obviously doesn't really give a shit about this town and how he acts in it, but in other situations, like we've seen him be the, understand how to be with people.

[01:02:40] Whereas John doesn't feel that way at all, but there is a strange middle ground for these two characters. Um, except, except in 2026 when he comes back and greets the sheriff and goes to see the body, he seems different. No, right. He seems warmer. Yeah. He seems more open. He's like a completely different character. Yeah.

[01:03:07] I mean, he almost, he feels like, well, he feels like a complete, like a complete character at that point. Like he, getting out of the car, you can feel it off of him the way he welcomes the sheriff. Right. Um, yeah. And I think we pointed it out in episode one, like it was a, it was such a dramatic difference from what, what the, the actor played through the whole story. It was beautiful. It was absolutely beautiful.

[01:03:35] Um, so what this show has done, it's planting all these seeds, right? It's planting all these seeds of all these different characterizations of who these characters are. And I think for the first time in episode three, we get to see one of those plants grow. When we got to see, we now get to see who Jon Stewart was. So now we have a good background piece. We don't know what happens between 2016 and, and 2026, but we know what's led him to be who he is in 2016.

[01:04:02] Um, so, so, you know, now we've got to find out about how, um, to see why he is the way he is. And I think there's going to be a brilliance to that character as, as well. Um, do you have any more points?

[01:04:19] The only other thing I would, I was going to say, um, unrelated to the actual, um, characters or study story line was, I just really admired the time structuring of this episode. Oh, yeah. I love the way the story was told. I was really discombobulated out of the beginning when he was falling. Yeah. He starts off falling into a ball. Then we jump, then we jump back and forth to 1986 and he's baby.

[01:04:48] Um, then, then it is, then we moved to a time when he's a teen, then as a sniper, then we're back to the mattresses, then the interview. Um, then, then he's going, then we go back again to the art school. Um, and then forward to the ring test. Um, you know, and, uh, actually him getting the job and meeting, meeting how. So, um, bringing us right up, kind of right up to time.

[01:05:15] But I just thought it was, um, very creative, very fun to, to watch that way. You know what I mean? Yeah. I enjoyed it. I felt too, I, you know, I was trying to, in my head, like, what's the, what's the story that's being told? And obviously 2016 is our roots. Like it's our, it seems to be our focal point of this episode or the series.

[01:05:39] So, uh, the interesting part is we get him falling and, and the interview to me was really kind of the, the spine of the show. Um, him answering questions and us getting to see sort of what fits around all the things that he's saying. Um, the fact that they start with him fall, you know, and falling, and then later we get him jumping into the, I mean, even that part of it, they make a little bit complex.

[01:06:09] Um, I loved trying to piece it together. Again, it's one of those things that we've mentioned. Episode two was a little more standard. We were stuck in 2016 through that whole episode, but episode one was very much like this. And I think, I think it like this, but different like this, but different. This had, this was the same sort of theology, but you could tell it was a different storyteller and you could tell it was a different director.

[01:06:35] I, I, I, I just, it, it, it never did. I feel discombobulated though. And it certainly could have. No, that's, and it was just really well done in that regard. Plus it was, it's always fun to kind of like, wow, I wonder how, how, how did, how did this happen? And then you're following along the story and you're not even like thinking about that anymore. And then the guy's puts the bubble, the black circle on the ground to step into it.

[01:07:01] And then you're back to the mattresses and you're like, you know what I mean? I love that. Well, and at the beginning I was like, wait, are they in an abandoned mall or is this a different scene? And it turns out, yeah, they were just using that entire abandoned mall. Yeah. So, so. Which did you notice at the top of the stair, um, the stair, uh, escalator? Yeah. He's standing for a second and there's some posters on the back wall behind him. Oh yeah, yeah. I know where you're going with this. Did you see that? Janice? Okay.

[01:07:27] Um, the, the, yeah, Janice, the, the, it's a jewelry company or something, but it's owned by the Black Mask. I think it's Cosmetics. Janice Cosmetics. Yeah. And it's Black Mask, who's a huge villain in the DC world. And then the picture next to that, which was part of the same promotion. Oh, the woman. As the woman with half of a Black Mask. Yeah. All right. It was cool. It was nice. It was well done. And, you know, I mean, at the end of the day, you know, you have a James Gunn production. So it could be something big.

[01:07:54] It could be James Gunn said, hey, Black Mask is cool as shit. We may use him down the line. Put something in there. Really screw with him. There's been a, there's been some other Black Mask references throughout this too. I don't have, I had them written down actually for, for episode two. There were a couple of other little things I think that I saw. So I don't, I don't know that he's a part of this, but, but I've heard rumors about other. Yeah. Other. I think they're just. Yeah.

[01:08:21] They're looking to just drop in names so that the universe starts to feel whole. Yeah. And to that point, you know, my, my son watched it, watches the episodes with me and he was telling me today, he said, I thought what was really great too. And, and what he liked about what the DC, this DC show is doing is that they don't feel like they have to explain the lore. Like, and he said, the, the best example was when she says to him, do you know, have you heard of Sinestro? Yeah. And he's like, yeah, yeah.

[01:08:49] You know, I heard about it on the news, you know, and it's like, they don't have to go through and show you the whole thing or tell you the whole story of this and that. You know, if, if you don't know, you'll look it up, you know what I mean? Sure. It's like, well, and, and, and to, this isn't a show, I think, you know, when you think of Damon Lindelof, okay. And I love them. I, I, I love him, but I know there are people that don't. And I know the reason why they don't is a lot of times he'll dip his toes into something and then never come back to it. Right.

[01:09:18] This show is like, it'll smack you in the face with something. You'll be like, okay, we're not going to find out about this until episode nine. And then, I mean, we've already learned a ton. Yeah. The, the, the Sinestro character, like you, and I think we bring it a unique perspective to it because we know the lore a little bit at least. And so, you know, we bring maybe too much to it. I was, I, I, I listened to the show last week and Jason took a bit of it out, but you

[01:09:45] know, we, we can get caught up a little bit in that comic book lore, but if you just watch the show, you know, I, I watched with my son as well. And, and he, he doesn't know any of the Green Lantern lore at all. Right. Well, it basically says, just like what I've seen on the news, he went rogue and you guys, you guys lost one of your guardians. Yeah. Yeah. Which was mentioned again in this episode. Yeah. You don't, you don't really need to know more than that. And we know he's, we know he's in a fairly serious prison, right? Yeah. Yeah.

[01:10:14] We don't really need to know more than another planet. Yeah. And, and, and we know that they certainly set him up to be a Hannibal Lecter like character. You don't have to know a damn thing about Green Lantern to, to get that feel from that. I don't think he's going to get out of that prison this season. I would agree. I would agree with that. I mean, I don't, I don't, I, this show could go in so many different, this is such a singular show right now. Yeah.

[01:10:43] And still feels like a superhero show, which is, which is amazing. All right. I don't have any other points. You know, I, I, we mentioned mom enough. I think we, well, let me just say one more thing and we'll call this a note and then we'll call it a day. Um, I do want to talk a little bit about dad, uh, who I'm really happy that we got the version of dad that we got in this episode because, you know, he was painted as a giant asshole. I mean, okay. I mean, he is shooting an apple office kid's head.

[01:11:13] So there is that, um, I really hate that that's in here because like, I thought that actor portrayed a dad who was certainly conflicted in a lot of ways in this, in this show. Um, definitely showed fear definitely was not pushing back against his wife, but definitely didn't necessarily understand the journey they were taking with the son.

[01:11:39] Um, so the tropes that we were sort of building in our mind about who this character was, were not what we got to see, um, as, as strong willed as the mother was, there was never a point in time where I didn't feel that this was a family that wasn't a family. They, there was love there. There was love there. Um, and, and certainly for the other two boys, uh, but certainly for, for John too.

[01:12:06] And I think we obviously got to see more than John got to see. And I think that's perspective that we need to put out there is we got to see mom behind the door. We got to see John behind the door. So we know there's more to these characters than what they're necessarily showing each other. Um, but I, I just, I think that the dad, the fact that he couldn't, you know, um, the fact that he put the apple on his head, the fact that the son couldn't shoot the apple off of his dad's head.

[01:12:33] Um, I just, I just loved what we got from the father character. And, and, well, I think that, that, that the mom certainly was, was the, I think the focal point of this episode for John, I think that the dad, um, became a full character for us as well. Absolutely. All right, let's head to listener feedback. Uh, Kirk, you want to take the first one? Yeah, sure.

[01:13:04] Um, um, This is Brad, right? Yep. Yes. This was the John backstory episode we needed. Loved it. Hoping next week we get a Hal and Sinestro centric episode. Yeah. I'm, I was, I don't know. Yeah. Do you think they're going to do a similar type of standalone episode for Hal's background? I mean, I don't know the answer to that because they've done such a nice job.

[01:13:31] You know, we haven't had two, two episodes that have felt the same. Yeah. We had some time jumps, but this was a specific backstory tale. Yeah. Episode one was kind of the foundation, the mystery. This is what we're doing with this show. This is the point of it. And then episode two. How many, how many episodes are there? Eight or 10? I believe there's eight. Eight. I believe there's eight. Yeah. I had heard that, um, uh, this is not a spoiler cause I don't know if it's true or not, but,

[01:13:59] uh, that the first half of the season was very grounded, very detective, very, um, human drama situation. The second half was very comic booky space action type stuff. So maybe we will get Sinestro's story. Maybe we'll get, you know, how and Sinestro's original story. I don't know. I, I, yeah.

[01:14:26] I, so I, I can't imagine we're not going to get Sinestro. I don't think they're going to get two episodes without getting it. So, uh, it would make sense to tell a little bit of Hal's backstory, um, with, with Sinestro because we don't know. Obviously there's history. We don't know what that history is. They've definitely shown us with the, um, uh, the stored memory from 2000, 2006. Is that what it is? Yeah. Yeah. Totally different Hal. Yeah.

[01:14:56] Yeah. So some, something between 2006 and 2016. 10 years. Has, has changed him. So. Okay. You're up. All right. Now, listen, I don't know this name. I'm going to do the best I can. Um, please don't hold this against me. I should have given this to you, Kirk. I was not. Thanks. Thanks. I'm just being a good leader here is what I'm going to do. Um, so I'm going to say this. Um, Jaijo, Jiho, Puthia. I am so sorry. Puthia.

[01:15:26] Puthia. Listen, I owe you a coffee. This is not a joke. Reach out to me. I'll make sure Kirk sends me some money to send to you for coffee. All right. Um, we needed this backstory and I was absolutely captivated. I am loving this show and don't want episodes to end. LOL. I was a little annoyed when they shot an apple off the head of his son. That first episode. I was like, who does that? Took me out of it.

[01:15:53] But now that I see the backstory, I'm more willing to accept it. I would kind of agree with that. Jon Stewart makes me want to be a Marine. I'm such a badass. I am hating Hal Jordan more and more as the episodes go on. I hope that changes because I want to like him. He is the Green Lantern after all. Really excited to get back to the main storyline next week. I really like how they are going deep with the racial issues and undertones as well. White privilege, et cetera.

[01:16:22] Really a smart show. And I think, I think that's what I love about this. Um, the most is it, it is a smart show. It's not just smacking you in the face with superhero, but it is smacking your face with superhero. It's got it all. Um, so yeah. And I just want to comment on the white privilege thing because I agree with, with the commenter and, um, I think it's been great and very deep and I think it's great the way they're approaching the racial issues.

[01:16:50] But the, the white, in my mind, the white privilege or the privilege, it's not really white privilege. It's the privilege in this situation was not that the ring is just offered to Hal, but that Hal doesn't live in the same world as a black man or woman does in this country.

[01:17:17] And they don't live, they don't live with the same fear and fears that they have to deal with. And so the privilege was that he could say, I'm not afraid. Yeah. That was what the privilege was. And that's because of the fact that there is racism and, and, and, and, um, bias in the way that things are, are handled and the fears that are additionally added upon people of color, um, in this country.

[01:17:44] So that, that, and I thought that was a nuanced and complex way approach to that. So a simple question, a simple question with a simple answer. Or that the reality is that it's not a simple question and a simple answer and a place is complex. Well, it's not a, it's not a fair question. Correct. You're not the two people being asked the question are not coming from the same world experience. Sure. So it's not fair in that sense. Right. Okay. Sorry.

[01:18:14] I was just, no, you're good. No, no. Jeff is up. Okay. So now we learn why John's dad hated Hal Jordan and both he and his mom also trained him to be fearless from infancy. We also learn about the connection to birds that John has. His mom tells John, don't worry about anyone, but a good law enforcement office, whether police or Green Lantern has to care about the people they protect. I have not really read the comics, but in the justice league animated series, John cares

[01:18:43] about his neighborhood, his planet and his friends and girlfriends. Sure does. I'm not sure if, uh, don't worry about anyone. We'll play into that series. Well, I think this comes back to what we were, we were just talking about, you know, that, that there's, John has developed a lot of characteristics from the way he was raised that will work very well for the guardians as for him as a lantern and for the guardians as a lantern.

[01:19:12] I don't know if that wasn't worded very well, but you know what I mean? No, no. And, um, but there are things he's missing and, um, but don't you, I think that Jeff's touching on that right there. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Keep going. John's mom is obsessed and that doesn't seem to bode well for anyone. Obsession does tend to work out. Well, could John's mom be the one who killed Hal to give John the chance to be the next lantern? Oh, that's interesting.

[01:19:43] Yeah. Um, I don't know about his mom, but maybe his dad, because his dad's also a marksman and a great shot. Um, the guardians fully want to replace Hal. Why don't they? Is it because they need to see where his investigation goes? Um, that's all for now until next time. That's an interesting question. I do. I don't understand why they're not just taking it away from him and giving it to John. There's, there's something.

[01:20:12] So, yeah, I think that. Do you have any insight into that? No, I was watching it and I, I have some written down somewhere. Um, where they're taught, you know, she's making comment. Uh, they, the rings are, are usually, the rings usually make a choice and they're trying to subvert that the rings choose. Um, and they don't always choose the best candidates because sometimes they choose people who have too much will like Hal Jordan.

[01:20:39] And what they're trying to do is they're trying to find candidates that they pick that subvert the natural way, the natural order of doing things. Um, so, so my only insight is they're trying to, and, and, and maybe this is where I was getting a little negative is that the ring, you know, picked Sinestro, but, and it picked Hal Jordan and they don't trust that process. Maybe they were burned by it with Sinestro.

[01:21:06] We don't know the exact situation yet, um, per the show. Um, but they're, they're trying to subvert a, subvert a process and control it themselves, uh, to find quote unquote better candidates. But didn't they create the process? Uh, did they? Well, we don't know, but we, I've assumed that they created the process and gave the powers that ring.

[01:21:31] But, um, when we get to the comic, uh, talk section, I've got some theories on that too. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I, it's a great question. And I think that, that, um, you know, why is it a care? Is it a plot hole? Maybe? No, I think it's a, I think it's a plot element. Yeah. I don't think it's a plot hole. I think it's there. They, we will find out why. I think. Yeah. I think so too. I mean, they've not done anything to make us think that that won't happen.

[01:22:00] They're really tying together the story very nicely. All right, Eric, here's awesome podcast. Just as you did with the walking dead, you enhance and extend my enjoyment of lanterns each week. It's the hosts, enthusiasm, knowledge of the lore and thoughtful speculation that keeps me entertained. Um, Eric, I can't possibly thank you enough for saying that because let me tell you Kirk and I do not necessarily agree with you all the time.

[01:22:26] Uh, so hopefully Jason not being here doesn't turn that into a jeers next week. Um, jeers. I find the use of the word bombastic on the podcast to be bombastic. Bombastic. Well, now I've got to go back and figure that one out. Who says bombastic? I don't know. Don't think it was me. I don't know. And I don't think it was me.

[01:22:52] But when I listen to the podcast and find out I've said it 65 times, so Eric, if it was me, I am so sorry. If it was someone else, fuck them. I'm on your side. All right. Question. Does Hal seem a bit glib at times? Responding to honey, questioning the state of the sheriff's marriage, not taking the trespassing warning seriously, asking John to feed Earl his whole vibe at the community meeting. Is this in character for him?

[01:23:21] Um, um, I, I would say no, I would say that he certainly has a crotchety demeanor at times in the comics. Um, but this is something I think wholly unique to the way that the actor is portraying it. Uh, I don't necessarily hate it too. Uh, plus we don't. Yeah.

[01:23:48] I, I don't see it as like, I don't think his response was glib. I think he's flirting with her. Yeah. Um, and he's, he's obviously got an attraction to her and he's interested in that. Um, not taking the trespassing warning seriously. That, that was because what we talked about earlier, he, he senses that something's wrong here. Something's not right. He's not going to let that stop him from, you know, being a cop and finding out what, what happened here. Um, I think, I think the community meeting was very much the same thing.

[01:24:16] Him trying to find information out and poking and prodding to try to do that. Asking John to feed Earl. He just needed someone to feed his boy. Come on. No, there was, there was, in my mind, there were three things that that was about. Three things? Well, yeah. We're about to find out. One is, could he keep the construct together? Because clearly he was very impressed by the construct and he was, that kind of knocked him off his socks.

[01:24:44] Um, two, uh, he needed the lantern. Yeah. He didn't want to leave because he knew he had to do one other thing. And that third thing was he didn't want John to be involved or get dirty up by doing what he had to do next, which was drag those bodies out and put him through the detectors. Yeah. That was going to be something John was not going to be comfortable doing. He wasn't going to want to do that.

[01:25:13] He, and he didn't want, I don't think he wanted the kickback from John about it, but then he also didn't want to, I think in some part, he doesn't want a dirty John. He wants to train him, but, and he wants to be tough on him and he's pissed at it. The whole situation, not because of John personally, but because of what it means for him. Um, but I think he also thinks John, I think highly of John already and he doesn't want to, he wants to drag him into the same crap that he does, you know? Yeah.

[01:25:43] Yeah. I don't know. That's just my gut feeling. Um, PS, I think there was more going on between Jen and Michael than the watch. Uh, and just a recollection. We talked a little bit about, uh, Damon Lindelof's plot holes on occasion. And we talked specifically, uh, about, um, lost, uh, Jen's watch, which is what he's taught addressing here. Uh, I think there's much more going on between Jen and Michael than the watch.

[01:26:12] Michael brought up race and Jen didn't like Michael interacting with son, but I think your point is valid that Lindelof has some questionable setups. The watch was later used as a schmaltzy, uh, reconciliation, uh, and lanterns. Nobody is buying the parking lot sex, but the other man's grill was a good line. And I don't think we've heard the last of it. Podcastica forever. Oh, parking lot sex. Let's go. All right. Carissa.

[01:26:41] Okay. John's parents are cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. Full stop. LOL. But it's such an interesting, complicated backstory for John. I like it. I found it interesting that mom was MIA in the first episode and it appears his dad is the driving force behind raising him to be a Green Lantern. Great story. We find out. Yeah, good. I actually agree. Totally. But we find out it's actually mom that pushes this at least initially. And dad is totally on board.

[01:27:09] I actually do greatly empathize with his parents' struggle and striving for the life they've created. I don't know their ages, but I imagine they grew up in the seventies, maybe right after the hell of the sixties. I see how that informs their response to all this. The guardian seemed to have many bones to pick with Hal and he with them. I can see there is much more behind the story. Namely, Hal not updating his backup for 10 years and then wanting to replace Hal.

[01:27:36] The guardian seemed particularly exasperated and confused by humans. It's kind of funny. Surely another life form. Well, even humans find humans exasperating. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, watch Kirk and I work together. Yeah. It's exhausting. No, it's not exasperating. It's exhausting. Um, but I get all the sci-fi fantasy is human centric and it all boils down to how unique, if not special humans are. I agree with that. So I can move on.

[01:28:06] I really appreciate the exploration of what has, what was behind John's fear and threading that to racism. It was also cool how open the guardian was to listening to John's mother explain nuances of human culture. John is really a tough nut to crack, which makes the sense given his upbringing, but I can't quite tell how he felt about Hal initially and how it changed leading to the opening events of the season. I can barely tell how he feels about his parents.

[01:28:32] He seems both incredibly mature and incredibly emotionally stunted, but I suppose that leaves him room to grow. So, Ooh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. Good, good, good, good, good, good points. Oh, we've had some great emails. All right. So Damien. Yeah. We never got emails like this when we did Daredevil. It must be Jason. Listen, listen, listen, they were, they were out there.

[01:29:01] Sometimes, sometimes we just need someone to construct them and we just didn't have John. So if we had, which apparently is Jason. So maybe we shouldn't get the rings. All right. Damien with a phone call. Hey guys, Damien here. Episode three of Lanterns. That was really great. I really enjoyed that. Yeah. I now want to go back and rewatch the first couple of episodes again. Agree.

[01:29:29] Now with the context of everything we learned in the episode last night, because there was a ton of things that we thought like, oh, even with the little we knew, why did they act like this? Like, why would the guy really shoot the apple off the head of the kid? That seems a little dangerous. You know, why was, uh, you know, how Jordan, you know, why was he so brash? And why was, you know, John Stewart so uptight?

[01:29:59] And, you know, just, and everything gets shown in this episode. Um, not too cleanly. I think they did a really, really good job. Um, so yeah, yet again, I don't know any of the law. Um, I, I have not read any of the comic book, but I'm, I'm kind of digging it. Uh, yeah, we'll see. I mean, I, I was a massive fan of, uh, the Watchmen, uh, show that Lindelof made.

[01:30:27] Um, and while I don't necessarily think this is up to that yet, uh, it's done a lot in three episodes. So I'm, I'm excited. Um, and, uh, you know, I'm a big fan of everyone involved and, uh, seeing Laura Linney, uh, pop up was great. She's just incredible in everything, including Ozark, but everything else I've ever seen her in, I think she's just great.

[01:30:55] So, uh, yeah, I liked a lot and I cannot wait to listen to what you guys think of it. Uh, yeah, here we go. Uh, episode four next week. Damien, thank you so much. Yeah. I couldn't, I couldn't agree more with the thought of going back and watching the first two episodes. Um, this certainly adds layers to it. And, and, um, again, I don't think they've done any of the episodes cleanly. I think they're, and that's very purposeful.

[01:31:22] I think they're leaving a lot to interpretation, a lot left to be told. So, um, yeah, uh, thanks for calling. Really appreciate it. Yeah. Great call. Thank you. Alex Kruger. Hey there, Jason, James, Tiberius and Kirk. Uh, Kirk, have we podcasted this much together and not realized that your name and my name is James Kirk? Is Star Trek related? My middle initial is T just going to leave it there.

[01:31:52] Oh wow. Is it really? It really is. It really is. So, you know, if we ever become one person, I guess I know who we'll be. All right. I want to start off by saying of the comic book worlds I'm familiar with, I'm not too invested in Green Lantern. I also only knew Kyle Chandler from the early nineties TV show, early edition. Fantastic show. Um, I still haven't watched Friday night lights. This is all to say. I'm going to watch that. I'm going to, I'm going to start watching that.

[01:32:20] Um, I will tell, I, well, keep texting me through it because there are great seasons of that. And then there's a couple that there's one that. How many seasons are there? Five, five, but they're not there. It went through a interesting transition from regular TV to, um, I can't remember, but it went through a lot of iterations of starting off on NBC and ending up on other things. All right. So the season count is different. Yes. Yeah.

[01:32:49] I think we have like full seasons, the first two, maybe three. And then the last two seasons, I think are three seasons or shorter. Um, but tells a great story because again, really good storytelling for the most part, although there was a season that I was like, what? Um, and then, um, really good actors. Uh, Jesse Plemons like finds his start. There's just a lot of really good actors, uh, that are involved, uh, in it. And, um, obviously Kyle Chandler was kind of the central piece to it that held it together.

[01:33:18] Um, this is all to say I'm thoroughly, uh, adoring this television show. I don't know about different colored lanterns. I don't know about guardians or the difference between Hal and John. I know what I saw Ryan Reynolds do one time and remember mentally checking out of that movie when he made a roller coaster with the ring. So I'm coming in with fresh eyes and no preconceived notions or expectations. And I got to say, this is one of the best TV shows I've seen this year.

[01:33:45] This show is giving me such good information pieced out when I need it. Absolutely. It's answering two questions while asking for more. It's extraterrestrial in nature, but grounded in execution. Gosh, what a great line. And it's giving me a stoic hero to fall in love with an Aaron Pierre while charming my pants off with Kyle Chandler. Um, interesting that you're finding Kyle Chandler charming, but, but I hope Kyle, I hope Kyle's pants were on when he was writing this.

[01:34:15] Uh, I love the Lord. I'm sorry, Alex, Alex. I love the Lord of the show. They are building. I thought having an episode three flashback episode was bold, brave, and necessary for someone like me. I understand so much more what make John's John Stewart tick. And it's not just tonight's moment of Zen. I'm sure they are changing the Lord of the comic world to fit the narrative storytelling of the television medium. But this is such a great concept and execution.

[01:34:41] The detective story feels amazing and earned, and I cannot wait to see what happens next. Thanks for the coverage guys. And I think, I think to your point, um, Alex, it's, it's, it's great to hear that because, uh, Kirk brings a certain lore to this. I bring a certain lore to this. Jason brings a certain lore to this. Uh, so it does overcomplicate the show sometimes because we're thinking, well, that's different. That's the same.

[01:35:09] Um, it's good to hear that people that don't know that lore, even the actors involved, um, are finding joy in it. Because I think, I think the, the point that we've been trying to make throughout is the, the writing, the directing, the choice of writers, uh, has been fairly brilliant. And the fact that it's not just Damon Lindelof, we have Tom King and we have, um, Chris Murphy. Murphy.

[01:35:34] Um, we have these, uh, these two other showrunners kind of checking each other, um, has been, I think just absolutely great, uh, to see. So, uh, appreciate your Monday, Monday, Chris, Chris Monday, Chris Monday, not Murphy. Yeah. You know, we got the initials, right? It's 10 PM. Do you know where your brain is? Cause I don't. I, it's a good Lord. No. All right. So is this some, is this Jason? Could it be?

[01:36:03] Very cool to get Jason. Not our Jason, right? It could be. I don't know. All right. Is this his way of telling us he loves us? I guess. Very cool to get John's backstory and see how it ties into a black family tired of not being seen as John's mom repeatedly says and determined to demonstrate excellence through John. I think it was a good move and an absolute must to have a black writer, Vanessa Baden-Kelly, write this episode.

[01:36:32] Absolutely agree. Um, we talked about that briefly. I also couldn't help thinking about Damon Lindelof's history with Harold Puro, Puro, Puro, Puro, Puro, Puro, Puro, Puro, Puro, Puro, Puro, Puro, Puro, Puro, Puro, Puro, Puro, Puro on lost. Puro has talked about pushing back when he felt Michael and the other characters of color weren't getting the same attention as the white leads, including objecting to the way Michael reacted to Walt's kidnapping. Puro is hair. That's the guy from, um, from, uh, he's great. Oh yeah.

[01:37:02] He's great. Yeah. Yeah. And I love from that's a fantastic show. Yep. Uh, because he felt he played into stereotypes about black fathers, not caring about their sons. There were late allegations from people who worked on lost of a racially insensitive culture behind the scenes, which Lindelof has said he deeply regrets. So I thought it was interesting to see how a show Lindelof helped create to vote an entire episode to John's experience as a black man and more specifically to this idea of a black

[01:37:29] family determined to make sure their son is seen seems Lindelof is trying to do better. And I think that's good. Well, yeah. And also, um, Watchmen the series was Lindelof too, right? Yeah. So that was, that was very well done too in terms of, yeah, he's, um, I would agree in so many ways that he has spent, um, his, his later career.

[01:37:57] I wouldn't necessarily writing maybe potential wrongs that he felt he was dealing with, um, on lost, but I, I think certainly, um, he's more sympathetic to different cultures and giving those cultures voice. Um, yeah. I mean, if you watched Watchmen, um, that was, um, that painted a picture of black culture that I had never seen before.

[01:38:24] Um, it made me do a lot of, um, historical research on my own just to discover some things in our country's history that I had never known about prior to watching that show. Uh, and again, I think this show, uh, very much deals with a lot of, I think some of the

[01:38:48] issues that we're seeing in today's world with cultures being seen as you mentioned in, in that beautiful, uh, message and just, um, the cultural bias, um, that we have seen throughout the history of our country. So, so yeah, I agree with that a hundred percent. All that said, I think at some point, John's going to need some serious therapy.

[01:39:15] I predict the way he was brought up will give him a lot to wrestle with in future seasons. I thought Laura Linney was great as Leanna, the guardian, though I did think it was silly that the guardians don't understand the concept of being raised by a family. They oversee the security of the whole galaxy. That's a lot of species. And from what we've seen in the comics, lots of them have the concept of family. Interesting. This episode also shows that John's ability as an artist to visualize details is one of

[01:39:45] the things that makes him a great candidate to be a green lantern. And that makes me wish Kirk had the ring so we could see what he would create. What would you make Kirk? It's a great question. Yeah. It's a great question. I don't know what I would make. I'd have to think about that. I'll have to come back next podcast. You know what the star of the episode is going to be. Everybody's going to be waiting. What would Kirk make? Why don't we just wait till we get our rings and then you can make it? We'll do a video podcast and we can show the world what you're going to make with our

[01:40:13] real rings that we're getting in the mail from Amazon. P.S. John had already been chosen as a candidate to be a Green Lantern when he was a child. Called it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. That is our Jason. That is our Jason? That is our Jason. Yeah, he called that. That's right. Yeah. You know, Jason, go to Burning Man and leave us alone. Jesus.

[01:40:43] I just want to say I really appreciate the people who are sending in messages. The messengers are absolutely fantastic. Yeah, they've been fantastic. Really great. It's great to be both validated and all the insight that I get to see through your messages that enhance the way I look at the show. It's been such positive feedback. And the funny thing is, I question myself. I love shows.

[01:41:10] And this is a show that I was really looking forward to because I do love Green Lantern. And it has hit every beat for me. And we're in episode three. It's good to see that other people are seeing that too. Even people who aren't Green Lantern's fans like I am. So please keep in sending the messages. We certainly do appreciate it. Amen.

[01:41:42] All right. That's our show. Thanks for listening, everyone. Stay tuned to the end if you want to hear comic talk. For our next episode, we'll be covering Lantern's season one, episode four. If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can send it to brightestdayatpodcastica.com. Or you can leave comments in the Podcastica Discord or in our Facebook group, where you

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[01:42:38] And the Daredevil podcast. Daredevil podcast. No wonder nobody listens. Daredevil season one without. Do you know, I still haven't watched season two. Are you kidding me? No. Oh my God. I still haven't watched season two. It's good. I wanted to get someone new to podcast with me who would watch it with me. Thanks. All right. Of course, check out Podcastica.com. Check out our Facebook group.

[01:43:08] And you can follow certainly any of those podcasts that we have, including the OG podcast, which is still currently going through a rewatch of The Walking Dead. And brightest day and blackest night. No evil shall escape our podcast light. All right.

[01:43:36] So if you made it this far, we are in our spoilery section where we're going to talk about comic book lore. We don't have a whole lot today, although we might so in and out of a few different things. So if you're here and you don't want to know this, stop now. You got plenty before, including that fabulous quote that we ended the show with. All right. Comic book talk. Kirk, what do you got?

[01:44:03] Well, the only thing really on my agenda here to speak in this section about is the deities and divine entities of the lantern powers in the DC comics are known as the emotional embodiments immortal. They're godlike entities that each personify a specific emotion along the emotional spectrum. So I'm not going to go through them all, but I'm going to go through two.

[01:44:31] Ion, which is the willpower, the green entity and embodiment of willpower resembling a giant cosmic whale slash shrimp like creature connected to the green lantern core. And then parallax, which is fear, the yellow entity of fear appearing as a terrifying parasitic insect like beast that feeds on the and generates terror for the sinestro core.

[01:44:57] Now, the reason I wanted to talk about those is because in the comics, John becomes imbued with the ion immortal emotional embodiment, which is the embodiment of willpower. If they're doing this pretty big, by the way, you really if you're if you made it this far, this is really fucking important. So listen to this, because this is undoubtedly what's fucking happening right now. Sorry. I think so. I think so.

[01:45:26] Yeah. So this is what I was alluding to way back at the beginning of this fucking episode is duh. Like, how is this not how we not talked about this anyway? I know. I know. Sorry. I didn't really know about this. Yeah, I know. I didn't know. And I did. Which is what fucking I can't. I'm watching this episode and I was like, wait a second. Well, I don't want to ruin it. You keep going with your point.

[01:45:53] If they're doing this in the show, it might explain why, you know, John could manifest the bird and keep it alive without the ring. Sure. Also, why the ring and the guardians have wanted John to be landed from his being a baby. In other words, they could sense the connection that he has with the with the ion is what it's what they call it. The entity embodiment of willpower.

[01:46:19] Um, and it's interesting that everyone is suspecting that how, uh, is going to become parallax, which is of course, one of the biggest storylines in Green Lantern history. But the twist might be that John becomes ion and that that's really what this story is about. And, and the other clue to this is in 2026, he doesn't have the ring. He doesn't have a ring. So he still doesn't have a ring.

[01:46:48] And we heard the interview with Tom King, where he said that, um, uh, Guy Gardner actually has house ring. Well, of course he has house ring because John doesn't need a ring because he's connected to the main force of willpower. And that is allows him to manifest stuff without having to have the ring.

[01:47:14] Um, and, and, and just so we're clear, um, this isn't every storyline with John Stewart throughout, you know, the annals of Greenland, his version of Green Lantern, but it is, it, it has been, um, I can't remember which version of it was, but I, one of the comics that I bought not recently, but when I said, when I say recently, I mean, since I've been a gray beard,

[01:47:37] um, has John, um, the ring showing up on, on his finger, um, as opposed to him having a ring. Uh, so they are clearly setting up John with an immense power. And when I mentioned the Messiah part of it earlier in the episode, it's clear they're making John.

[01:48:02] It's clear that John is something more than even he sees, but how is starting to see it. Um, right. The, the, if you go back and you just watch Kyle Chandler reacting to the bird when he pulls the ring off of his finger and he tries to play it off through the episode, but he,

[01:48:28] the, the actor reactions are just fantastic until he finally sort of makes a comment that seems sarcastic. But I think you and I both saw it as, as, as real as, as John or how acknowledging that John has something special. Um, yeah, I don't think John needs a ring. I think that's going to make him pretty fucking special. So yeah, I agree. So, and I, I, I love that.

[01:48:55] And knowing that guy Gardner plays a part in this and may pay play a part in John figuring that out, I think, um, is, is going to be fun finding, you know, him finding himself through that, uh, through this great relationship that, you know, throughout the comics he's had with how Jordan specifically. And to your point, um, in this section, I'll just go ahead and say it.

[01:49:24] Um, I do think that their relationship is going to develop, um, into something very full, um, which will make the ending of this season. Very interesting because it could be, uh, that's not comic book talk. That's just straight up spoiler talk. So I'll just keep it to myself. Oh, this is spoiler section. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I, I, I, if they're working together, I think there's a scenario where

[01:49:53] whatever's happening at the end of episode one is something planned. That's not to say that how Jordan isn't dead, but I think there's a lot more that could be happening there than meets the eye. I think the one thing that the show is showing us to, to the person who emailed, who said that they're giving us two answers and showing us four more questions. I think that's one of the questions that we have yet to be answered. Um, obviously maybe the biggest question of all, um, there are so many little bits and pieces,

[01:50:22] um, that are interconnected to the comics, uh, in one way or another. Um, the guardians, of course, uh, although you could, they're very different. The constructs, I think, you know, Kirk has noted, um, many, many times. That, that John Stewart's constructs were going to be vastly different and less the brutal ones that are created by how Jordan, um, and that's certainly, I mean, it's, well, they're not going to be simplistic.

[01:50:52] Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think the John being an artist, um, an architect, I, uh, in, in the comic books, um, he's been both, um, interconnected. Um, I think we're getting to see that when he went to artist school, um, is he an artist now? Is he an architect? That's yet to be answered, but I do, um, historically in the comic book, he was an architect first long before he was a Marine.

[01:51:21] Um, the fact that they're intertwining those stories lets you know that this could be going anywhere. Um, but the first version of John wasn't a Marine. I mean, he was an activist, an architect, an artist, um, a very modern black character in 1971. I mean, 55 years ago, um, a character that you didn't very often see specifically in comic books. Um, so a very complicated character that would be complicated in today's world, um, just as much as it was back then.

[01:51:51] Um, but a lot of, a lot of this episode was, was new lore, the birds, that's not something you're going to see in comic books. Um, but I think, I think the biggest piece here, uh, and I did get the same thing that you did, um, with the ring part, the ring manifesting itself in John. Um, but the guardians piece to me was the, was the common thread. Um, and I do want to mention that the, um, Leanna character, uh, that's played by Laura Linney,

[01:52:20] um, is, um, I think, I think they're called Gen 2, um, a Gen 2 guardian. She is not in the comics necessarily a heroic guardian. Um, she is, um, there's a little chaos with her, uh, and she very often plays an evil character. Um, I do not think that's what they're doing with, with this character.

[01:52:50] Um, I would tend to agree with you that they're playing her as more of an intellectual, naive person as opposed to an evil person. Right. But in the comic, and she's not straight evil, um, but she certainly would be more antagonistic in the comic books. Well, I was given, given this discussion of the deities, um, I want to come back to your, uh, comments in the beginning of, um, that the guardians appear to be trying to subvert

[01:53:21] the normal order or process for guardian selection for, um, yes. Lantern selection. And I, my response to you was, well, didn't the guardians create it? So like, you know, how is it subverting if they created it, but maybe they didn't. Maybe the deities. Oh yeah. Are the ones that dictate the ring situation. Yeah. And they're trying to go against the deities.

[01:53:48] For whatever reason, they're not just making Jon Stewart green lantern. I mean, they tell him he's going to be green lantern and make him fucking green lantern, but they're not. Um, or maybe the deities are stepping in. Maybe the deities are saying, look, you know, he's, he's going to be green lantern. He's going to be my, our choice and we're going to inhabit him and he's going to have a different, a different level of power. Yeah.

[01:54:16] Um, and so, you know, get out of the way to the guardians. Oh man. I don't know. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. I love it. I love it. Give me more. Give me more. All right. Not tonight. All right. Yeah. No, we were going to end it there. It's time. We were going to end it there. I mean, 1030, I mean, two hours, like, come on, come on. We good. All right. Um, that is our show. Hey, uh, Kirk, we need another quote. I'm a fucking kid.

[01:54:46] All right. That is our show. Everybody. Um, please make sure you tune in next week. Uh, season one, episode four title. To be determined. We'll see you then. Peace. Cool. Peace.