Lanterns S1E8 "Dirt and Stars"

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Oh... You been listening? You heard everything? Everything. You're taking a very big risk. Yeah, I know. You need to really think about it. Kid could be president one day. Yeah. He could have his finger on the butt. Jesus! I...I get it, okay?

[00:00:29] Hell, what would you do? I don't know, you want my wisdom. Are you really gonna do that right now? Very interesting development. I think it's the least you could do given that you ghosted me before. No. My gut tells me... You're gonna be better at this job than I ever was. Ring's running out of charge.

[00:01:01] Hey, you know that thing looks good on you. Yeah. Most guys, they can't handle jewelry. You're lucky. You got slim fingers like a girl. Yeah, shut the fuck up. Charge the ring. Don't tell me what to do. Nah, what's the matter?

[00:01:31] It's the oath. The oath? Yeah, it's not quite me. It's not quite you. It's not...it's not quite me. Well, you're in uncharted waters fucking named right your own fucking oath. Yeah, you're right. Hey, wait a second. I fritzed out when you were talking to Carrie. What were the last words that I said? I mean...exactly.

[00:02:00] Hey, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason.

[00:02:30] And I'm Kirk. And I'm Jim. And this is Wax Episodic. And this episode, we're covering Lantern Season 1, Episode 8, Dirt and Stars. Duh duh. Duh duh. We're here for the finale. It's about time. We're a week late. But that's because Kirk just went to New York Comic Con, which sounds like it was pretty cool. And we've been wanting to ask him about it, but trying to stop ourselves so we could ask him on the podcast. So how was it?

[00:03:00] it was it was crazy it was crazy um it's a it's an all-week affair you know it's like when's tuesday or wednesday you can go and load in i was going to go tuesday then decided to hold off and go wednesday so it's up early go in city set everything up then you come back and it's thursday friday saturday sunday um you know we drove in thursday my son came with me and man

[00:03:26] managed the booth with me um for three of the four days um my wife came came in on saturday but um you know it's 160 000 people um you know cosplay like you never see anywhere i mean it's it's it's the east coast version of san diego comic con you know only i think it's more concentrated i've been to both although it's been a long time since i've been to san diego but you know san diego

[00:03:52] was spread out more around the city the whole city kind of participates um in that event you know what i mean there's things going on outside and other other places at least like several blocks out it feels like there's events yeah yeah it has a sense of a feeling of a larger sense of and so it's a little bit airier even though there's a lot of people probably the same amount of people but this

[00:04:16] is you know it's just in the javits and it's jammed and there's a downstairs area for um artist alley and and it's just it's just as packed and it's crazy um but how is like the interactions with the fans at the booth and everything oh it's it's it's you know it's the best part of it i mean it's it's a chance from you know as an artist who who does this kind of pop culture stuff you know i sit alone in

[00:04:43] my desk in my studio with me myself and i and uh uh you know i get a little bit of feedback when i post on on social media but um there's nothing like going and and putting it out you know bearing your soul out in this 10 by 10 booth and getting you know all of the um interest and and and feedback from actual fans uh was was just it's just it's like heroin

[00:05:13] you know yeah um no i think that's probably why the celebrities i mean they make bank but i think they love going to because celebrities didn't used to get that immediate feedback yeah yeah yeah it it definitely um it it charges you up to keep going there's no doubt about it um one two uh it was a

[00:05:35] spectacular show for me um i just think i had the right the right products uh at the right time you know i just uh the choices i made on what to do for new pieces and tribute art um just turned out to be the right things you listed them off what were they again in text yeah so the the you know of course brand new day um the most um highest grossing film ever at this point and and a lot of the categories

[00:06:03] um still going strong in people's minds um so i came with a regular um piece for that and then also three different um exclusives and um two of the three sold out completely i had 10 or 15 extras that were printed uh all those sold out as well um the third one did really really well but it was like

[00:06:25] two-thirds of it then i also had a daredevil born again um piece that was an exclusive and on saturday uh i want to say friday there was a bunch of them there and then saturday charlie cox was there as well so that was just you know perfect and i sold through all of those i brought 30 of those and extras

[00:06:48] and then of course um lanterns having just finished the sunday before this this show that for this past week um was was paramount people's minds and and just by choosing that cover to it really popped out off of my um i did large size banners of it as well as the regular 11 17 is 18 by 28 and those were i don't know if we talked about it on the podcast did we i guess we did yeah we did

[00:07:17] that it was a tribute of john uh famous neil adams steward's first opinion i think it was issue 87 of uh green arrow green lantern they for a while they didn't have their own books they had a combo book uh it has john stewart on the cover lying you know holding up a uh uh he's not dead but he's beat um green lantern howl and uh you know screaming about the um you know they they beat up the

[00:07:44] lantern but you know now they gotta face me so i just did my interpretation of that using these characters from the new show and boy it just that just exploded that caught people's eyes well those that that cover i've seen that cover over the past two weeks in so many different places um connected both to the show and just uh other other avenues it's just been popping up perhaps because i've looked so much at your your art that it just shows up in my algorithm but

[00:08:10] um that's i think the show is helping make that kind of an iconic iconic it was an iconic cover before but i think i think especially over the past vogue yeah it was definitely it was definitely iconic before but i like the other one personally even better yeah yeah tribute poster okay yeah like kirk does these sort of i i feel like this kind of poster goes back to star wars that's where

[00:08:36] where you just have all these characters from the thing in these great poses with all the iconography and everything yeah right right right it's really cool the you know it's funny james jim to uh your point the you know the average uh my posts i'll get from for new art you know i'll get to you know the the big ones would be like 2 000 views yeah um you know well let's see this one uh

[00:09:03] sometimes only 500 600 that kind of thing the lanterns has 82 000 views holy cow so so it was you know again just and and and it having ended on sunday they're just people were just so hungry for it you know and the fact that he did actually die and so in my piece it it looks like it was done knowing that you know what i mean because he's holding up this kind of half dead body of hal oh yeah it's just yeah

[00:09:32] just it just it just worked out well then on top of that i had um obsession is still a huge film that people are still talking about and still obsessed with no pun intended and um that that just does bang up for me um and then um and then of course the knicks i did a tribute to the knicks when they won the championship um which again you can see all of these on my website uh on i on instagram

[00:10:02] at batman km and uh that was just going crazy in new york city of course probably didn't hurt that they were just on uh snl too yeah it's great that you you always get your button gear and you're ready for these things i mean well it's luck luck to the draw whether you pick the right things but you've got something every time yeah yeah well you you just you know that for me for what i do and

[00:10:31] and for my audience you know it's got to be contemporary it's got to be what's hot what's you know what's happening i think you should do uh bake off great british bake off yeah and it's got to be what people you know people want to see i mean and i think i've just kind of gotten myself conditioned over the years of doing this so much to and some of the going back

[00:10:56] to the walking dead really kind of initiated that because i was doing episodic tributes then you know what i mean so like i still have when i would be going to a big walker stalker con i need to have i needed to have as many of that season as possible you know and so you know they didn't want just a big portrait of you know the five main characters or the three main characters or no you know no i mean

[00:11:22] like if you guys want to hear see some of what kirk's talking about go to studio km.com but the my favorite he did these tribute posters and he would like style them after certain eras of comics and just put a lot of style into it and my favorite was the one you did for my favorite walking dead episode which is a season five episode one or maybe it was the one right before that the season four finale

[00:11:45] where it was uh the the kid the archer the leader and the samurai oh the the a team yeah the a team with the circles and the train determinist train and it was just badass yeah it was that was fun that was a fun one to do yeah well i you know being a comic book artist um and um uh is kind of my background and then the the show walking dead being based on a comic book um it just kind of naturally came to

[00:12:15] me to to do it in in in my comic book take of it kind of like a comic book version of the tv show which was a tv show based on a comic book so you know yeah but you weren't aping uh charlie adlard you were definitely no no no no no i was i was doing my own doing it in my own style yeah that's cool but yeah so um so you know those it did really well and and i met a lot of people and got to see

[00:12:40] a lot of uh regular fans and friends that that come out um to support me and and and that was all that's always a lot of fun and um and then you know just a cosplay it's amazing and you know you bump into amazing talented people that are there everybody's there from the movies and um tv as well as comics come of the best comic greats are are always there and that's that's inspiring so yeah it was it was

[00:13:09] just a lot a lot of fun a lot of work exhausting you know five o'clock every morning i was up going into the city didn't get out of here didn't get back home till about midnight um yeah you know feet were killing me by sunday i wasn't even i couldn't even feel them they were nubs but but you gotta pack everything up oh god and it was like uh it was we we the it closes early on sunday at five o'clock it took us about an hour to break it down you have to then go get skids pile it all on skids and then

[00:13:38] they come shrink wrap it you have to go and get in line and then when you get into a bay then they fill it in we didn't get into a bay till almost 11 oh my god so we weren't home before close to one it really sucked so monday i was i was a zombie i was out monday you know i was just out and i was like i hope he doesn't want to like podcast no way we were ready to go it was not happening

[00:14:03] yeah the pot's done you're good no but this is this is good because we just sort of explain uh the world of the conventions and kirk's part in it with these tribute posters and now we're gonna do we we've been talking about this oath contest where somebody yeah people would yeah call right in with their oaths for the podcast so i have them listed here i think we got five

[00:14:29] oaths from did you did you did you talk about the what we're doing for the winners or not are you going to get to that that's what i'm going to say yeah we're going to okay you're going to well we're going to give them one of your posters yeah one of the lantern ones and they can choose which one uh i thought we would do the well you're going to have two winners so there'll be a first place second place i guess okay you're thinking and then the first place would get the um uh would be the

[00:14:55] uh exclusive with the john stewart cover and then the the regular version would be for the second place that's that's that's what i was thinking sounds good to me but it's your podcast so whatever you want to do that hey it's you're the one giving the prize so uh will i haven't actually read these i just copied and pasted them in here so why don't and he hasn't told us why don't we these are this is the first time we're not we haven't seen them yet so we're just gonna um take turns reading them and

[00:15:23] then we'll sort of discuss and live on air we'll see how this goes but we always always agree on everything absolutely everything we'll have to make five posters now man that's right five winners okay uh i'll go first brad holt says in brightest day in blackest night no theory shall escape our sight let those who overthink this stuff beware our power casting lights

[00:15:53] pretty good right out of the right out of the gate that's pretty good other than the fact that every theory escapes our sight although we did pretty good we did pretty good i mean we did really good to say that we were right about the killer is to accuse everyone so we were right i kind of missed everything that was good out of the gate all right um nathan eshelman on brightest screen in blackest

[00:16:21] mike no comic shall escape our sight with thoughtful takes and deep insight beware our podcast we're casting light we might end up with a combination of some of these yeah for our actual oath okay um mark kirkman what's up mark um hi jason kirk and jim here's my green

[00:16:49] lantern style oath in darkest night when shadows grow i raise the light and make it glow where fear takes hold where hope has fled i shine a path where light is spread with heart made strong and spirit bright i stand as guardian of the light no darkness born no evil's might condemn the flame i cast tonight

[00:17:16] let courage rise let goodness shine by will and hope this light is mine wow nice job mark these are good man nice job mark these are all i thought i thought there was gonna be music coming on in that jesus man oh god like if you can hear the discussion that we had just to come up with the name of the podcast i mean it took a couple weeks didn't it anyway

[00:17:47] okay these are great all of these are so good so far i think there's uh one more yeah you got yeah you got one two two entries about from one person uh isamu midiaki yuki nori says this is a fun idea uncle jason jimmy kirk i had two thoughts for an oath one which would be a pledge to you a pledge you all would make as podcasters as lanterns airs on sunday night our reactions flare

[00:18:12] with deep insight though comic talk is not quite right our views shine true on casting light did we just get slapped he said please note the comic talk dig is a good nature job gentlemen also somewhat true but there's an aspirational oath uh and no one uh and then this one says

[00:18:37] and one that essentially promotes your show is how drifts on in fading flight and john's fear shot through growing height hear jason jim and kirk's insight as they speak out on casting light i hope you enjoy these as much as i did coming up with them i will have some notes on the green lantern oath for comic talk later this week while he's got those in this podcast until then take good care wow those are great now we got we got to decide right now yeah i mean i was think i you know maybe

[00:19:06] i wasn't um totally clear but i was thinking of it as something from the podcast you know yeah yep and marks is just a badass oath that doesn't have anything to do with the podcast but it's still good so i don't know what do you guys think well we talked about using it at the end of the show yeah right yeah so so i definitely feel like um or some version of it we may tweak it a little bit

[00:19:34] yeah yeah yeah yeah um so i i would i would focus on that i mean marks is beautiful um and maybe we pull some from it um but i would focus on maybe the ones that are more focused on the show yeah i agree with that and in that spirit i would say the first two yeah so so both are so close and and honestly when you said we could piece some together i started yeah i started scratching

[00:20:03] some things down yeah so so i actually agree with the first two um what do you think kirk i agree i agree no okay who's the winner then i think um well i kind of like bits sections of both i know you know what i mean well we can we can do that but but we still have to pick a winner well i i like on brightest screen and blackest mic i thought that was that was an interesting you

[00:20:27] know what i mean it's it i like the way that that i think that nathan's every line fits podcasting right yeah that that that would be that would be my number one i think they're both really good they're both really close but i would say nathan's is probably just a smidge better just because every line is connected we agree guys i would i would i would the second line oh see now i can't just

[00:20:52] be no it can't be easy fuck no um i like brad's second line better no theory shall escape our site rather than no comic shall escape yeah because we're not really talking about comics that much no we talk more about our theories of the of what's happening in the story so yeah and this is as isomo said the comic the comic side of things we just well what we could do kirk if you don't want to do this it's fine with me but we could just dub these guys the two winners and they can each pick whichever

[00:21:21] one they want yeah yeah that's does that work yeah yeah yeah sure absolutely okay i've got to re i've got to reprint the the uh exclusive one though because it's i lost it sold out yeah they're gonna have to wait two weeks or so but yeah that's fine so they'll get it they'll probably get it before we get our rings though probably it's my guess right on man i can't believe it's taking this long

[00:21:46] there were so many people there were so many people at the show that had them oh yeah yeah and they had them at dc at the booth too you can buy god here's what we need to do we need to bury someone wearing the ring and then dig them up dig them up then we'll get i nominate kirk no i don't mind digging i don't mind taking but i'm not getting under that dirt no way uh all right so brad holtz nathan eshelman congratulations congratulations guys

[00:22:15] awesome post and thanks to everybody thanks all four of you thank you so much they were all good yesami yeah definitely um all been like sending stuff into the to the podcast through the whole through the whole turn so so so seeing these are it's great yeah absolutely yeah we have a lot of feedback for this episode too so let's get into it lantern season one episode eight dirt and stars uh jim you want to read the all right here we go

[00:22:42] plot summary is shortly before dying hell decides to stay in rushville and his house is set on fire with him inside he then awakens in a slaughterhouse where noah gives him new skin using alien technology and reveals that he is a manhunter at the complex john learns from sinestro that noah freed and brought him to the island to forge a lantern from its water charged with both will and fear energy

[00:23:09] john then returns to earth where noah ambushes him seeking revenge for zoe's death after discovering his nature as a manhunter after a heart-to-heart fearing his manhunter side noah asks john to kill him after the game and during the game john tells carrie he knows she killed how to protect noah and tells her noah's request but says he won't kill him and would instead stop him if he ever succumbs

[00:23:34] to his manhunter nature john then summons guy uh and tells him that he will be taking over as earth's protector john charges the ring while reciting his own oath gives maggie her compensation and reunites

[00:23:50] with his family so what do you guys think oh it's garbage that's what a lot of people are saying a lot a lot yeah there's there's it's funny this is this is this this is the first episode to me that has brought out the extremes like i think there are people that love it and people that just fucking hated it and um

[00:24:17] i i it's funny because this is a show that sort of put everything out there before us and you know i'd love to sit here and say because we predicted a lot of the stuff that happened in this last episode i i i would say that you know the the writers did a good job of putting stuff in front um of us and and still making it a mystery i don't think that i i they've hit so many action spots through i mean episode

[00:24:45] five we we both talked all three of us talked about it being a finale like episode and then six and seven really i mean it led off and that it wasn't as big but the the action was still pretty intense and um seven certainly felt like a runway to maybe there being some more action in episode eight especially with sinestro and you know the manhunter and none of it it was just this steady beat of

[00:25:09] friendship and love and um john discovering who he really is um not discovering who he really is uh becoming who he really was i think he started to figure out who that was in episode six and we got to see that slow burn um with this version of how that that loves him this version of how that um

[00:25:33] respects him as someone learning to be uh the the next green lantern and then finally respecting him as being not only the next green lantern but someone way better than he would ever be and then these two i mean this love story this very unique manly love story between john i'll try not to take that

[00:25:56] personally um i just it was um i i thought it was a beautiful episode and i don't think people you know when you talk about superhero shows you don't want beautiful uh to be the final episode you want you want i i think it's i i would i would like i like it that in in the in an interview chris money said we did not want to do tropes or what was expected we wanted to yeah yeah you know do something

[00:26:24] different oh i wasn't yeah i wasn't no i know you're not saying that but i'm just saying i think the i think the the audience for these kinds of shows uh have been trained a certain way and that that contributes to this issue too yeah you know the finale is going to be a big bombastic explosive uh you know crazy wild thing and um this story didn't call for that the story needed this need this story needed what it got it needed conclusion it needed definition it needed uh

[00:26:54] you know things to be wrapped up the mystery to be solved uh you know all of that you know i mean i did think there was a good chance we were going to get a suit but uh that didn't yeah it's okay yeah yeah it's actually made my excitement for the uh the man of tomorrow yeah movie even bigger now i mean we got a suit it just was guy's suit by the way um every time i hope you don't get mad at me for this

[00:27:21] but every time you've been saying that john's in the next superman movie i've been cutting that out because i didn't i don't want people to who aren't paying attention that's public now i know but some people aren't paying attention to that stuff and i just don't want them to those people to go oh i guess he survives someday sometime i'm gonna go on back and listen listen to some of these episodes yeah you should listen wait a minute you should listen where am i it's like i'm not even here

[00:27:50] i'm only pointing that out to say that this is the first time that i feel like yeah we could acknowledge it like yes he's gonna be in the superman movie and i'm so excited for that to see him i hope he has you know not just a little cameo it might be but it'll still be cool to see him and he said in an interview aaron pierre said in an interview that he very much appreciated having had the opportunity over the time it took to make this show to discover the character and go into the movie with that rather than have to find it while making the movie so that's right i think the

[00:28:20] superman that we're getting now from james gunn uh what's the actor's name corn corn's david corn sweat i think of course i think that's how you say it okay but anyway i think i think he and john are gonna click i mean maybe they won't but i think they maybe i mean they're very they're very honorable they're honorable they're they're they're caring uh they have empathy they're you

[00:28:46] know god my fear click i have feared that which i guess is going to be a theme for this this episode because we're probably going to talk about that a little bit my fear though is that we're going to get people who don't watch this show and they're they're saving the suit perhaps for the i mean obviously you're not going to have john and and superman movie without him wearing the suit no and as we found out no way these two shows are so i mean how many people have not watched

[00:29:14] superman that listened to the show almost everybody at least two and what really it really what scares me is you're saving the suit for the suit for the movie clearly and we're gonna start season two i'm sure they'll address it i'm sure they'll address it'll be fine but i yeah it'll be fine i mean every time i get worried about something on the show they figured out i think it's great marketing i think it's super smart i mean this is a very on i think the audience that was drawn to this is is partly

[00:29:44] traditional superhero people but then this i think gained a lot of support from people that weren't necessarily go see a superman movie but now they're going to be interested they're going to want to see what happens with john they market it right yeah they're going to want to see the continuing story for that um so i think it was smart and not doing the suit makes a lot of sense also because again that's makes for a grand entrance yeah grand entrance but i think there really wasn't a

[00:30:09] need for it in here yeah that's why they didn't do it because like you said they're really attuned to what the story calls for sure but i personally like you said that there this uh episode brought out extreme reactions and i had i don't wouldn't say extreme but reactions on both sides i thought it was really emotionally satisfying and some beautiful scenes like that i love you scene was the fucking

[00:30:38] best yeah but there were some moral and logical resolutions that rubbed me the wrong way for sure so we'll get into it yeah i don't disagree with that at all at all um so yeah but i i um i love a show that i mean i'm i'm as if you've listened if anybody's listened to any of the podcasts i do i'm a crier

[00:31:04] especially um we did uh um all about agatha um a couple years ago yeah yeah i get a lot and and and i i wept through that um so people know me a little bit as a crier get a little emotional about things and um there were a couple of there were a couple of hits here in this episode that just i was not expecting that scene at all i was not expecting it at all i did not know where that was going until

[00:31:33] the very last second i was like like why would he be asking him like who cares he's uh how and then i was like oh shit and the minute he said i love you i was like oh shit shit and it just hit me like yeah and then he said junior and immediately i i was i was watching it you know i was watching it with my son who's watching it on his phone and and i i was like wait how does he know that how does he know that he doesn't know that why he doesn't call him junior um so i yeah it was um and there

[00:32:03] were a couple other hits in there you know why i think they put that in there just because it really evoked the real how and yeah and it made to me i mean yeah i don't know how he would know that but i don't know if i really care that much because to me it was well hold on it was just like yeah uh this is the how that doesn't have his ego blinding him sure and so then he can purely

[00:32:29] see john for what he really is and recognize his greatness and be there for him in a way that the other howl never could never so it was just really special to and he was totally fucky with it like he knew what his last words were and then he was gonna get that line right afterwards yeah he just wanted him to give him the opportunity to be able to say it if you if you watch the scene the way he plays it the way kyle chandler plays it like like john kind of walks past him and and and how

[00:32:55] immediately his face changed and he kind of starts looking up into space and he turns around and looks really distressed like you know look making it act like he wants to know what his last words to carry were which we can buy because they set that up in previous episode when they when he wanted to go talk to her and um and he completely like set and in doing so sets us up a little bit for it and maybe other people like knew where he was going with it but i was watching his face i felt i felt i knew i knew

[00:33:23] something was coming that was not what he was saying that it was well and but i didn't know i didn't expect that because when chandler's facials yeah we're perfect when he looked up to the stars what i saw was oh shit yeah this is the end this is it yeah this is how it all ends and then but then the realization there's still something i want to do and there's still something i want to say and that's that's what i got when he turned around so then when he asked that question i was like what

[00:33:49] well then he asked the question it's perfect john and john looks at him and you know says i love you and then it pans back to kyle chandler whose face is completely different it's it's that it's that look that look we've seen from him a lot in this series of like i just fucked i just fucked you over and then he hits it and then he chooses to disappear before he says the oath which yeah you know i think

[00:34:16] i think that you know we talked about whether this would hit or not if it wasn't the real how and they figured out how they figured out a way to have how the hologram hit just as hard as the real how would have been like figured it out i also felt like if you backed up that scene just a second or two prior to like when it starts it just when he says to him to me this was even a bigger point than the

[00:34:42] than the i love you was my gut tells me that you're gonna be better at this than i ever was or could have been and it just uh the gut was such an important part of hal and it was something he constantly referred to as something he trusted and john was always cerebral always and also very regimented following orders and discipline and all that kind of stuff and till this episode yeah

[00:35:12] yeah through this whole season john becomes more in tune with his gut and because of that uh relationship with hal and then you know he he needed to get that affirmation that you know that hal thinks he's fantastic and but it was good that he disappeared and let him be alone for the final act because it is all about john deciding for himself like i don't want the guardians to be in charge of me

[00:35:39] i don't want my parent like he's overcoming his programming so it needs to just be even not hal there him alone doing that charging the ring and flying off yeah well i just i mean i might as well just wrap this up because this was kind of one of my points and i i think that you know i the hologram and whether how would live or die and of course he's actually dead and could he come back in future episodes and um which i i think there's still that opportunity although the the monday specifically

[00:36:09] makes made it sound like this story is over now he died in this story that doesn't mean there's not a future where kyle chandler could be a part of it but sinestro put it out there and i feel like that was bait for any of us with any hope but we know that he's also a liar and i also think like you've said a few times jim that these writers probably wouldn't do that but i think they know that just by putting it out there that we're going to be like maybe that could happen maybe maybe yeah

[00:36:39] i think that um the one thing the comic section too about the whole parallax right right yeah i would argue that they did their version of parallax but we we can talk about that in the comics but i would say um the one thing that they were really steady with is is that bird that bird that they played off in the beginning and and how john could control it and how it became his um and it

[00:37:02] disappeared when he made it disappear um i do think that these how these holograms and in this case a hologram do become a bit a part of him and of course um right so it could be in there still i i think that i think that as as time went on this hologram started to become a little bit more of a connection between hal and john internally we know that hal could hear we know that hal was there um how that

[00:37:32] worked i don't know uh you know he hal's dead so the only way he can work is if he's inside john and if he's inside john of course um where he's going to get more some of that little bits of personality are going to be from john of course john knows hal calling him junior throughout you know that's okay that makes sense i i think i think that you know that was a hint that it wasn't just in the ring it was something different now yeah all right so i think a lot of people might look at that as being

[00:38:00] well you know this there's some real piece of hal and in this well they never said there was never a point where they said straight up that you know when he puts the ring on uh then all that is hal is gone they never said that you know i mean it's still hal's original ring yeah so i i think like hal said halogram said when you charge the ring then i'll be gone he did say that in this episode

[00:38:27] yeah but i don't but this has never happened before yeah we're a different person took the ring without it having given to them by the the guardians and um or chosen by the ring itself this is all very different and um yeah i i don't know i just think that that that might be also there's i think they're leaving that vague enough so that they could do either of those two things bring him back through

[00:38:53] sinastra or have him show up as i think at the very least you know as as artists they're they're you know they don't whoever's going to be in this writer's room in season two we've already got two new uh main writers you know with with windeloff leaving and tom king leaving um they've already got a new new showrunner title people like joining they've already got a writer's room forming which has a lot of the writers from last but new writers as well i think you leave as much on the table for the next

[00:39:21] writing team i think windeloff is very famously like he he does an arc you know he does his arc whether it's one season two season three seasons um when he did his arc and i think whatever happens next is is is you know somewhat up to monday obviously you know james gunn is big at play you know with regards to whatever season two looks like if if there isn't even as a season two um and and i'm sure it'll have its own and and could kyle chandler be a part of it sure sure could guy gardner be the

[00:39:50] the i mean i mean if you didn't watch this episode and think that there could be a really good show with with erin pierre and nathan fillion i i don't i don't know what you're watching because i just was really intrigued with what a show like that because i don't know buddy cops and haiti cops i think that would be a good that would be a good bookend for a show but um i don't know

[00:40:14] i i just uh i i i i do think that that john's power um is a lot more internal than than the ring and him choosing this ring and making it his own and and claiming earth uh the the mic drop that i'm sure we're gonna get from steve brown later uh when he says you know i'll take the dirt you take the stars i mean just a great just a great quote just a great quote yeah uh well i thought sure sure um

[00:40:43] you know i thought john's oath was awesome and an important part of the show and of his growth as a character um and his future as a superhero um for me it was probably one of the most important parts in the final finale um i don't think john is going to be just you know what it said to me was

[00:41:07] is john is not going to be just a space cop you know what i mean um and i think that the the way he changes the oath reinforces that you know the traditional green lantern oh it's about power it's about um being responsible to the core um that you know you watch over the universe the power serves as a warning to those um it's almost like a threat you know what i mean um and uh it's very

[00:41:35] law enforcement it has a very law enforcement quality to it john's version is much more personal it's about taking control of his life owning his power and deciding for himself how to use it um the entire series has been building toward this moment i thought and doing what's right yeah yeah and he's john's choosing to define you know the system or define himself rather than letting the system define him you know what i mean and i think that was that was in i felt that from

[00:42:04] the way it was worded um yeah you know he's learned to embrace his fear use it as a tool to do what's right rather than simply following the orders of the guardians um and that he shows you know i think it's not it wasn't lost on me either that he says i choose this ring as opposed to the ring usually chooses the lantern that's right you know what i mean or the or the the guardian or whatever the person

[00:42:28] um he chose the ring the same way that when no one a writer used to choose like jewelry he stole it i get that that was funny i was like where is he going with this i know right at first i was like what and then i was like oh i get it jason pulls out a you know almost like people yeah i thought it's interesting too i mean i

[00:42:56] probably should have wrote written it down and read it first before i started this point can we can we read both oaths i've got them right in front of me yeah i just i just want to make make the point then you can read them um you know uh you know he commits himself to serving this lantern's light to me that means you know that lantern is his own lantern that wasn't given him to him by the the guardians so it's a way of the show kind of saying i'm going to serve my own inner light

[00:43:24] i'm going to serve who i am as a person you know what i mean uh it's it's it's not directed outward at anybody or it or threatening or controlling in any way um you know he's finally taking ownership of his identity and his destiny um and then of course in that moment he discovers his power and so he can fly yeah i just thought it was beautiful without even without even hesitation yeah

[00:43:50] i just no no yeah just yeah just boom in there because he really felt embodied at the end of this and then also he went back and hugged his brothers who we'd only seen one of them before but we hadn't seen his mother in the 2026 period at all and so there was a disconnect with his family who

[00:44:14] wanted him to be something and now he goes back home hold on and he get and he's just it's so like like just loving and he he doesn't have to hide from them anymore and they can feel that like his mother just starts crying and i don't even know if she knows why but i think she has a sense that something's different with him or maybe it's just like oh he's finally talking to me again well i think you know if it metaphorically when you look at you know your own personal growth as a

[00:44:42] person you know you you as you become an individual you you know you you carry with you all the baggage from your your childhood all your you know parents expectations all this kind of stuff and you're dealing with that and you're angry about it and you're frustrated and it makes you know all the little things that your parents do or siblings do is irritating to you and everything else but once you kind of deal with that and different people do it at different stages in life whether it's through therapy or your own deal or your own research or whatever self-development you

[00:45:12] you you you all of a sudden you get past that and you can see those people for the love that they gave the environment that they provided that it's just like how hologram could see john without all the back right exactly exactly and so now you can let yourself love them again you can you know you don't it doesn't when they do the little thing that irritates them it doesn't matter because it's not you know that doesn't affect you anymore you have your your own person right and do your own

[00:45:40] thing you can move on you accept them center of gravity and you have to accept them for how they are and it's no longer about your anger at them it's about your acceptance of them as they are and their limitations the writers play distance with this family i mean we get to see marcus um as an adult because they work together uh but that's really it they very pointedly have this family communicate via phone through the whole entire series really except for the one episode where we get the backstory

[00:46:09] um you know mom is is disconnected through the phone dad is in a nursing home you know burning it down apparently yeah um you know i so we we get this um this vision i do have you know this is i i have multiple critiques about it we do get a beautiful scene of the family um very briefly at the at the end where we get to see them in the same room all of them in the same room uh for the first time for the first time i mean that's the first time we see the whole entire we we don't see mom in that first

[00:46:37] scene where we get to see marcus and aaron and dad shows up we don't know the brothers names at that point and then we never get to see them in the same room as a family until that last almost that last scene of the whole series well i guess probably timeline wise it is the last scene of the series even though we get to go back in time to see him um recite the the the yeah that's right and probably so um it is interesting i i think that um when i go back and re-watch this you know i've watched it

[00:47:06] so much i'm probably going to put it down for a bit but when i go back and re-watch this it'll be interesting to look at john's singular story um from beginning to end because um that the relationship and i think uh the relationship to um cultural like differences in our country and i think things that i still don't quite understand as a you know as a middle slightly above middle-aged white man in america but it's constantly curious and constantly trying to learn i think there's a big story to tell

[00:47:36] um that they're telling there that i i still want to go back and dig into but i really um and and someone will probably have this as a point so i don't want to touch on it too much but um the parallels that john has with other characters in the show um specifically with uh noah and and zoe um which we which comes out in a beautiful scene when they're sitting in the car when noah and john are sitting

[00:48:03] in the car um we get to see that part of it play out um when the mom does hug him and i think i think jason you talked about this but we probably all did at one point about um the mom's fear that we get to see when he comes back from walking through you know the bad part of town and and you know her laying in her bedroom like just freaking out about it and we get to see um i don't know maybe a culmination

[00:48:28] of all that with that scene uh in in the living room uh with the family but john so we just talked about sort of the emotional reality of john claiming of of him like you said at the top becoming himself like self-actualized version of himself right and i think that's all beautiful but also there's a part of me that's like what are you doing

[00:48:55] you just told the green lantern of earth oh you can't be on earth anymore that i know this is your hometown but fuck you you're in space now like that's rude and and and guy gardner who uh stood up to superman is gonna be all oh okay you're not gonna hear the last of this and then fly off like a wimp i i there's a part of me that's like uh that's not cool dude like you can't do that you know and then

[00:49:21] he said you know uh guy gardner's like i'm gonna go tell on you and they're gonna come back here with the other lanterns or whatever and he's like you tell the guardians like uh just um what do you say if they look inside their hearts yeah look inside their hearts they'll understand which was i think just a way of him saying you you mess you come mess with me i'm gonna let everybody know about the manhunters oh is that what it is yeah he dropped the heart in her lap see and she's like oh we all

[00:49:50] make mistakes you know all we can do yeah you're right okay that makes more sense because i yeah i don't even want to say what i thought i thought it was well i thought it was that he was telling them i i brought you a manhunter so you owe me but that wouldn't make any sense because they'd be like that that's what you doing your job you know we don't know anything but no i think you're right it was more like yeah they created the manhunters they created the whole nonsense they wiped out an entire sector because of him and they're covering it up they've been covering it up it was leverage

[00:50:20] exposing the system but it doesn't change how i feel about him like guy gardner is an acervic guy he's kind of a douchebag in a lot of ways but he's a hero and he saved lives and i don't think he deserves that yeah i agree i think that when you're servicing well i don't i think when you're servicing

[00:50:45] your character um and they they certainly this was a show about john stewart um i think you take care of him i don't think james gunn is gonna let guy gardner who he clearly loves as a character get his ass kicked in that scene which is sort of what happened um without there being maybe reasons for it that we don't know yet um i think that they do give john that line and i can't

[00:51:15] think of it off the top of my head um john calls him a hero in that scene uh and and which i i love but it is the scene in which we get john stewart for the first time in this whole series we get him telling somebody who he is as opposed to everybody else telling right and i i mean i i think i think that the plot maybe and i'm kirk's gonna come roaring in here with whatever he thinks but i do

[00:51:45] think that crashing in i think that that i think guy gardner is the type of character that you can use to service that a little bit uh you can use kind of his humor um to play it off i do agree with you because he did stand up to superman and one of the best scenes and and to me and that superman movie but remember john john didn't see that john doesn't know about that you don't well yeah but guy gardner is not acting in character that's my point like he if he'll stand up to superman he's gonna

[00:52:14] stand up to john i saw a really interesting uh theory about that online a guy i follow that does analysis as well and i'm going to share that here he their theory was that they're standing in rushville rushville was decimated by the mistakes of a lantern by the overly

[00:52:37] aggressive poorly executed uh lantern uh and the the the last thing and he spent the last 10 years which he makes a point of a couple times um trying to improve the the opinion of the green lanterns and and prove on that and and and make it more positive again and um that was why he offered the lamp lantern to them and you know like we're here we're here to help you know blah blah blah blah

[00:53:05] but the last thing that the guardians would want or even um guy gardner would want would be to have two lanterns fighting it out in rushville again blowing stuff up are you saying it would be are you wait for it here's my mic drop are you saying it would be bad optics exactly and and i agree i think guy gardner is smarter than he portrays um and i think he's also very political

[00:53:32] and you know um i think he saw this as something that was wiser to step back um i don't think it was that he was afraid of john uh that's not i thought this guy's theory was right on i and i didn't get that vibe from him either that he was afraid of him and i saw that scene in superman where he's like he was clutching his pearls to me what would you yeah you can't do that what well but anyway i

[00:53:57] thought it was an interesting take on that scene i would also say that that my my gut tells me like how uh was is that is that john and guy are going to actually become friends i don't disagree with you i think you know when john starts to realize through different experiences you know working alongside of him that guy ultimately even though he's a douche and a loser

[00:54:26] he wants to be a hero and he wants to do the good thing and he does ultimately do the right thing in in the superman movie yeah and i think he you know will see that part of him um and he certainly has learned through this series that people are very complex and just because how was a douche doesn't mean he wasn't also a great guy and to him and and he learned a lot from him and that he felt

[00:54:52] close to him so um i think the same will end up and and this gives them something to work with relationship yes the dynamic down the road but yeah just john himself like we saw in the superman movie guy gardner being douchey but also fighting monsters you know and risking his life to help people and to

[00:55:14] have john stewart give him that kind of attitude like sorry man i'm taking over this territory and he said you you got the stars have fun it's like a total like what i you can't kick me out of my own home you know i mean i feel the same way as uh guy gardner there i'm like uh no yeah that's not cool it might have been it might have been him i mean i i mean i don't disagree with you jason i do think

[00:55:43] that there can be nuance there though i do think that it can be okay what the fuck is this new lantern because we you know there's this yellow lace lantern that we haven't talked about yet you know what does that mean what's what kind of power does this ring have this isn't a guy that i hate even though he's like you know he's kind of being a dick to me i've got shit like i've been hiding you know i gave him this ring you know i gave him this ring that i'm not supposed to have and now i got to

[00:56:09] fucking tell them hey uh john's got the ring that i mean there's there is yeah that's another way to look at it is rather than then he's telling him he can't be on earth he can't protect earth anymore he's he could just take the whole freaking thing say dude i'm i'm green lantern for this sector now screw you okay so he could be even more of a dick so that's why it's not i think i mean i'm not even i'm not as big of a dick as he could have been i'm not even i'm not even saying that i'm just saying

[00:56:37] guys guys stepping back like guys stepping out like guys saying okay i gotta figure this the fuck out like i'm focused on john though like well i'm just imagining myself like i'm self-actualized now guys are horrible there's somebody else like i i'm just gonna i can't have him here too i gotta kick him out like i i just don't feel like we got enough interaction with john and guy where guy is the kind

[00:57:04] of guy that deserved that necessarily just because he's not likable doesn't mean he deserves to be kicked out of his home forever and i also feel like john would know about guy gardner like i don't think john went 10 years without having an idea of who guy gardner is like i don't think that their meeting at the jail was like them not i'm sure that i'm sure that um and and and john does give him that little tidbit of respect there where he says you should be proud of that he ripped on him it was

[00:57:34] like that backhanded compliment right like he ripped on him and then he complimented him for it but i um yeah i i mean i can't disagree with that i i can't kind of rub me the wrong way a little bit but not no big deal just but i want to talk about carrie a little bit yes and uh how because i thought their

[00:57:56] love story was wonderful and when she picked him up from jail and had the beer it was just a sweet moment and kyle chandler knows how to play those moments like that oh geez just as sweet as the one with uh john later you know yeah it was just wonderful and then at the restaurant you know and she literally stood up for him uh and that was wonderful too and then in the bedroom you know he's

[00:58:24] like fallen even more in love with her after that and he's she stopped staring it's weird i'm willing you to stay i just love that because he's used to being able to will things with his ring you know and just make things happen and he doesn't have to be vulnerable and ask and she's like try asking instead of willing and he goes and he asks he's like he's still just yeah giving a command

[00:58:46] she's still not asking i can't yeah yeah but i mean it's it's it's fun it's a fun moment but i do then she kills him and uh there's that there's that and uh you know she says she'll turn herself

[00:59:13] in and um then john says somehow i don't think that's what i knew you were going to struggle with this yeah but this is the one that i struggle with the most and i i don't think that i i'm like what why wouldn't he want his murderer to face any consequences and so uh grant morrison one of the comic writers that i think that i when i say i respect them the most i think he's super talented

[00:59:43] on another level sometimes and i just super creative love some of his stuff sees things that nobody else sees i love new x-men and uh the superman one was it absolute or superman i forget but um yeah anyway he wrote something about this that i don't agree with the whole thing but i agree with some of it so i'll say it because he probably says it better than i would he says lantern worked as a show and it's mostly down to the two leads particularly kyle chandler as hal jordan they have a great

[01:00:11] supporting cast was helps but it's the two principles and their chemistry and charisma that sells the whole thing so maybe those true detective comparisons had some basis after all having said that i didn't really like the ending although it was all neatly put together i found it hard to accept that carrie kane shot hal jordan in the head and everyone seemed fine with that psychotic break there should probably have been some response to that because otherwise it makes it really hard for the audience to work out what makes a green lantern corps an intergalactic law enforcement agency at all

[01:00:40] the guardians are now fine with their operatives being murdered while other officers simply ignore the fact and let the perps walk free i read writer tom king's explanation for why this choice was made she killed the man she loved and was suffering enough and wondered how that defense would fly in a court of law after some ghastly crime of passion the horror of murdering his wife in cold blood is punishment enough for this man your honor let him walk free with a gun in his hand and we'll just hope

[01:01:06] it never happens again okay i watched the show carrie lost her shit in a way that made her seem unhinged and she shot a superhero in the head out of peak john stewart also let the manhunter go free knowing that he could one day destroy the world for a show that's not about masked vigilantes with their own personal code but deals with weird space policemen working for an interplanetary judiciary it was a morally and legally incoherent conclusion that backed out of its own implications and the

[01:01:33] basic premise of the franchise there are rumors of a potential second season but even with a compelling air and pierre it's hard to imagine the formula working uh no that's dumb but anyway i agree with i mean i have some agreement with a lot of that except not necessarily the part about noah because noah hasn't done anything yet so you can't i would say it's least debatable whether john did the right

[01:01:57] thing there but i think he did yeah um yeah no i don't i don't so well the only justification that were given for letting her go uh was that he didn't feel he didn't feel hal would want her to pay for that i mean that's a stretch he that's a that's a fucking stretch i think it's probably accurate

[01:02:22] i mean if she killed my girlfriend kills me i just want you to know right now i mean put her in jail okay if she killed anybody else like but because i mean i just i i think that i think that what worked for me in that scene wasn't the psychotic break that grant morrison said i don't i think that that actress played that perfectly i think that she they led into it perfectly with him talking about his mom

[01:02:49] and comparing it um to her we got to see the fear um and she just reacted now she didn't want to have to relocate so yeah well well yeah yeah i mean but i i just think i think we're talking about um the potential of her son getting killed right and i think that that well no it was just relocation wasn't it i mean she probably had a lot of fears but that's what he was saying we'll go to guadalajara then we

[01:03:16] might go to some isolated planet and she's like no i'm gonna have to kill you because i can't deal with that when you i i kind of glossed over that the first time when i was watching it the second time and i was like oh my god like he was gonna he was gonna let no one in to help him yeah yeah and and i was like and i would say okay maybe she doesn't want that but maybe she could just be like uh we need to talk about this yeah you know or something i don't know yeah yeah i yeah it's her son i mean yeah but you

[01:03:44] know i i could even agree with the argument that she just got so freaked out and killed him like it's understand it's an understandable emotion but you still have to pay for stuff like that yeah well right right right i was in kind of i was leading there although he just wanted to take him to guadalajara but anyways um but i i think that i think i i agree again i think that that her reaction to that

[01:04:13] was i mean in real life we've seen some reactions like that but i think that his that john that's such a disconnect from who john has been through this whole series but that's sort of what kirk was saying like he's not by the book anymore you guys are both saying that he's following his gut yeah he's following his gut now yeah but i i mean crime by crime basis i do think you draw the line there

[01:04:37] and and it feels a a debt to to how and he like he said i don't think that's what how he is murder go free yeah because he how would how would have understood that you know what a crisis she was in emotionally at that moment and he wouldn't want her to pay for that do we have like can zatanna contact his spirit just to check for sure yeah yeah maybe that's gonna be the whole part probably

[01:05:05] right the whole thing is like season two is gonna be based on like the first like five seconds of the episode is like how um he's gonna wake up in the grave and he's gonna be like what the fuck she killed me a little bit like that you guys watch uh pitch meeting on youtube this guy ryan george and yeah it's so funny kirk you should totally check it out he pretends to be a writer pitching

[01:05:30] a movie that we all know to a producer and then they kind of pick it apart a little bit but in a really funny way and uh a lot of times they'll say oh why do they feel that way all of a sudden when they felt this whole other way a different time and he goes oh because it's the end of the movie and it just felt a little bit like that like oh what you're letting a murderer go oh because it's the final episode you know something like that i thought it was really funny though that um

[01:05:54] the way that in the first episode if you remember at the football scene football field scene when they're sitting on the bleachers together and the sheriff is coming to meet them for the very first time he asks um he asked how something about uh you know who's who do you think shot or whether shot them or whatever and hal turns to him and says the answer to that mystery is heading right to you

[01:06:22] and she walks up in it and he introduces him and everything else so in the first opening episode they told us that she did it yeah and she said too a couple episodes back you know i could be a killer and i brought you here just to throw you off the trailer or whatever she said right she shot him i mean she shot him earlier you know when he had the ring so he told her like if i didn't have the

[01:06:45] ring you'd kill like yeah i mean it's been set up it's been set up the whole time um yeah which is the best like that's cool when you look back and go oh the clues were actually there we started getting suspicious a few episodes ago i would say it's also it was also interesting the parallels between hal and abansur abansur dies trying to protect zoe and we can now assume and hal dies trying to protect

[01:07:13] carrie and in both cases the person they're trying to protect killed them yeah yeah kind of interesting do you remember how much snow remember how much snow was sitting on that you remember how icy it was yeah like let's just remember in canon we're like the next day and it looks like we're in the middle of summer just throwing it out there

[01:07:42] someone's probably gonna say it wasn't the next day dumbass but you know it didn't seem weird that you know middle of kansas when it gets cold it gets fucking cold it's not gonna like melt the next day yeah exactly yeah or nebraska excuse me nebraska even worse um anyways uh i a point that i thought um we were kind of heading towards there is is we were talking about um abansur with why he potentially

[01:08:11] saves zoe and and um why john lets noah live and what was striking to me and i when you say the phrase humanity these days i guess it depends on where you stand in this country but um the the definition i prefer to use with regards to humanity is is is um moralistic like care i guess is is kind of how

[01:08:38] they i was kind of feeling with it and um the difference between you know in in very stark comic book sense um being you know a murderer of worlds versus um trying to find your man humanity to be um like a human being on earth and um we don't know why abansur tried i positive that they didn't define why abansur was trying to save zoe well i think we can only work we i presumed it's because

[01:09:07] we've learned that these man hunters are really good at ingratiating themselves with people okay i i think it might be more it was kind of implied it was implied that that that they they were connected yeah okay i see what you're saying but i i think there there could be more to it than that i think that um perhaps abansur saw the humanity in her i think john yeah that no that's a good

[01:09:32] point just like john did as well and and and i think john you know the reality you know as we learned john's story and he talked about it i thought that the car scene i was i wasn't as high on the actor playing as noah as maybe you guys were prior to the scene in the car and i i think that we got to see that kid just shine in that car scene and um him talking about this um this disconnect

[01:09:57] between how he has been brought up versus these feelings that are just in his head that are just there um and him very plainly saying you know i i could i could just become president someday then you're all fucked um and then he sets the ring down and i i just watching the torture on his face but i think that um throughout this show uh we get to see a hunt for humanity watching noah throughout this episode

[01:10:26] you know he saved hal um he um gave up the ring uh he's going about his life uh you know in this sense of of being human where he's not um there are so many questions about that um and of course i think maybe we can see noah in the future but i i i do i i like this parallel of him asking john to kill him

[01:10:53] the same way that mom and so not so many words asked john to kill her uh and then him choosing that moment i mean that whole thing of him you're saying in the car where he's talking through his struggle and how he's had thoughts of gaining power and he could easily do it with football and then um he literally walks us through it how he could do it and then he he's you know you can tell like it's a

[01:11:23] it's a real struggle for him because he doesn't want to and he's fighting against it and and the sort of revelation john thinks that zoe uh wanted to actually wanted him to kill her so because she couldn't control herself and then he asks her to he asked noah asks him to do the same and i really felt for him there for sure and i felt bad for him and and i actually think that john did the right thing by not um killing him because he hasn't done anything yet uh right uh he well i think the fact

[01:11:52] that he said if i do then please take me out he don't he just don't don't i just don't want to see it coming he said yeah he said yeah but he's i just don't want to see it coming yeah not he didn't he just wanted if i do he's like kill me let me finish this football game and then kill me yeah and then what what i think is interesting is john chose to let him to not do it and i wonder if he's going to be looking over his shoulder but then two things one you see him put on this uh

[01:12:21] uh what is it university of nebraska hat like one of the most storied college football teams ever from what i understand one of them so it's sort of like oh maybe he's on the path oh you better watch is he taking poli sci while he's there you know uh you gotta watch this kid but also um that it made this was another impetus for john to go ahead and take on the mantle of the green lantern

[01:12:48] because now he feels like this kid is his responsibility i just thought that fit together really neatly you know absolutely i think that i think that too that jason like they could have why let mom live as opposed to well how would have wanted it like there there was i mean so i'm gonna let this manhunter live and maybe this is kind of the subtle part of it um if i wipe out if i take mom to jail right maybe exactly maybe that's an impetus to to the manhunter becoming the manhunter

[01:13:17] yeah i don't know yeah i did think about that in there too for sure yeah because the part of the reason he's in such turmoil about it noah is because of the the upbringing he's had yeah and so and john says that you raised her well yeah right so that's true yeah she's like he's like you're a really good mom except you don't don't model the murdering part try not to do no no try to try not to murder any

[01:13:43] any more people but coming back to the abon sir thing i think the implication is is that she couldn't control her programming yeah right okay right and the difference between abon sir and john was that he understood that and that's why and he says to her i see you zoe and then he takes her out because he knows she can't stop being right she is right and she he knows that because he's programmed

[01:14:13] just like she's programmed yes and he's having to learn how to program himself and he understands in a way that abon sir same with noah he feels that connection with no and he's had some success exactly but i would say john should probably go off and research manhunters a little bit and find out exactly yeah what the possibilities are because zoe she couldn't over she killed she committed

[01:14:38] genocide or whatever holocaust so you know it really seems like okay that was i i can see where you're coming from letting noah go i even agree but i think you should have done some research and i don't think it's going anywhere good he's going to be a problem i think i think so too i think at some point in the future i just um the thing i like the best about that scene is is um the actor played it you know there were those moments where you could feel and you could see it in his

[01:15:08] face like how human he was and then we started talking about you know i could you know i could i could you know be a star football player and then i could you know go you know i could run for office i could you know and he kind of runs down the whole line of it and his face is blank and i was like fuck yeah kill him now fucking kill him now and even wanted it so that it would have been um

[01:15:33] you could understand if john would have chosen to do that but i i kind of like that he didn't and i and one reason why i really felt for this kid too is i think we've all had moments where we're like you know what if i do what i always do i'm probably going to do this thing and i and i don't want to do that but it's just what i always do you know and then you end up doing it you know and it's not on that scale it's not like conquering a society we've we've him saving hal though i mean that's a sign

[01:16:01] like they're little things true he did a lot of things yeah he he took the blame for the murder to protect his mom and to protect his mom again against the grain and then the the subtleness of saying i want to stay and play the game for my my team right right i don't want to let them down it doesn't get any more pure than that and then you know john walks up to mom and she says the exact

[01:16:27] same she says you know these kids wouldn't be getting a look if it wasn't for him right playing this game and the reason why he didn't choose a hat was so that they would show up to see this team play um and and again that shows demon side by the way that that coach that walked up and handed him the hat was the actual coach of nebraska too so yeah i did i heard that um yeah which is kind of interesting that noah didn't know that his mom knew what he was and she didn't know that he knew

[01:16:57] and that kind of felt real to a family sometimes you just don't know each other's secrets but i would think that if he's this smart man hunter he wouldn't be able to figure out that his mother knew yeah and i think there were some gaps just in that whole they were trying to cover a lot of space and i think there were some gaps and all that that i'm still i'm still i i still have a hard time i still have a hard time with noah like i don't know there's just i have a hard time picturing him

[01:17:23] going and busting sinestro out busting out sinestro right like how did that happen well he used the the portal okay well i would assume i would just get right in there but but we don't know we know how we got to the planet but we don't know how we got i i there was just the whole he just became otherworldly but he's a manhunter right yeah but then like okay how do manhunters grow like you

[01:17:47] what he should have done here's a nitpick we see him uh john's i i mean housing the fire and he goes unconscious and then he wakes up and he's been re-skinned he wakes up in the lab and then um noah comes out and reveals himself two great risks to himself and he and then he later he said i trusted him with my secret but then he followed me or whatever and i'm like why'd you do that his

[01:18:13] whole obsession was with jailing manhunters why didn't you just sneak off while he was asleep you you didn't need to reveal yourself there yeah nitpick yeah nitpick i or are we going to talk at all about the fact that carrie got impregnated when she had her pinky pinky face this is a weird show

[01:18:34] sometimes it was fucked up that's very fucked up i yeah and i just kind of goes to the whole just gave birth to a growing android well it speaks to the whole manhunter programming thing again that you know everything was a manipulation for zoe everything was a tool to to build this you know thing that she had to build to try and kind of position herself to take over or to leave behind

[01:19:03] progeny that would take over um you know so and then force the woman to connect with the son so the progeny stays in the family exactly so she has a loyalty to it a protection for it a yeah yeah it's her child and you can assume that it was somewhat forced because she at no point during

[01:19:26] the series looked at all interested in uh billy the younger billy macon and he clearly kind of liked her but she's like uh no and once yeah how's my guy yeah not the guy who makes the cowboy boots in bed yeah this guy just makes good fucking dip and whines about everything kirk what is there any other area you'd like to get to

[01:19:56] well i have to say i'm i'm extremely happy that earl survived yeah i mean too yes um that was a sweet moment too when he saved earl yeah yeah that really was you know and uh no i'm glad i'm glad i hope that he ends up with john um as opposed to with john's family but um i think that'd be cool

[01:20:18] agree what else what else you got kirk uh let's see uh i was completely wrong about the uh martha is that her name the blonde girl maddie oh maybe is it maddie matt maddie you're just like trying to throw another martha into the fucking frame there's already too many just christ now we got

[01:20:43] what's the other martha martha it's superman's superman's mom it's batman's mom and what that was the dumbest thing ever so stupid so stupid i couldn't even believe it when he said it on the screen i'm like whoa no it's maddie by the way i lifted up yeah um anyway i i thought that she might be the guardian in disguise i think the biggest surprise was that um the guardians were basically

[01:21:13] out of the out of play like the past i i for now i mean i well they they had disowned uh how they had let him take the fall for everything he went to jail they got you know they gave up his ring he he got his ring taken away this lantern taken away they didn't care about him anymore see again that's part of the whole story i think is that and i want to bring that back since since it came up to the

[01:21:42] whole discussion about um the law enforcement guy and yeah well the law enforcement but also between guy and john at the end you know yeah guy's a douche but you didn't think he deserved that or whatever guy as he points out he says i'm not you know i'm not a um i'm not an errand boy for you he says no no you're not but you are for them and that's exactly you know the guardians are not great i mean the whole

[01:22:08] manhunter thing is perfect example of how you know they're fallible and don't take responsibility for their actions um cover things up and everything else and they want somebody who's going to be loyal to that do whatever they say and follow through on their orders regardless whether they're good bad or indifferent and in his mind that's not what earth needs yeah so guy i find myself like going

[01:22:33] yeah but they gave him this power and they're the ones giving out this power in order to have justice around the the universe but then when you map that on to like today's world it's like well yeah i don't want to say oh yeah you should have these benevolent people that have the most power who deign to give it to the the lower class or whatever but still it felt like a theft and no

[01:22:59] appreciation for like thanks for the ring or anything you know i don't know i i hear what you're saying though you're right like they they kind of suck in a lot of ways but anyway coming back to maddie i thought that um that wasn't you know it was even the things that weren't what i thought they were it was kind of cool that they weren't you know what i mean it was that kind of a story that like yeah is it going to twist here is it going to twist there oh it's this uh well that makes sense you

[01:23:26] know what i mean but um that's the kind of story let me talk about her for a second because that's the kind of story it was where they wanted us guessing all the time and wondering right exactly what things meant and everything and i think they stuck her well i think monday does it too and well maybe i agree but anyways um maggie uh i think her name is maggie she i think one of the reasons why she was in there was to just throw another suspect in there right yeah but it turned out that it was just purely

[01:23:55] him feeling like yeah she asked for reparations and we did fuck up her town and ruin her life in a lot of ways so even though now that he knows that carrie killed hal like that's how she blackmailed him like if you don't give me this money i'm gonna tell the sheriff that you were with hal okay fine go tell the sheriff you know but he chose to give me money anyway so you know yeah yeah well like his

[01:24:22] note said i'm i'm still really sorry you know yeah i'm really sorry and this doesn't make up for it but it you know it's what you wanted and i'm going to give you what you want because you deserve it and what if somebody else in town was like hey i heard you gave maggie uh 300 yeah that could steamroll pretty fast get out of hand pretty fast well you need to notice he didn't stick around

[01:24:45] bolted he left the bag and bolted split this with everybody yeah yeah but i've seen a lot of memes i've seen that that bag has had a lot of memes on on twitter yeah yeah yeah but i thought it was also cool because again it was another testament to how good john's you know ability to read people

[01:25:10] is and and was certainly by the end but he also threw out the whole thing and you know we're all like oh wait a minute this this doesn't this subject but he just seemed completely accepting of the fact that she was who she was and who she said she was and that you know it was never something that the show focused on him doubting you know what i mean and there was a lot of a lot of that you

[01:25:35] know he knew who zoe was from the beginning um he knew he knew who she was yeah we're the ones who knew carrie wait a minute wait a minute carrie killed how he figured that out yeah and that and he knew that she knew who noah was and just figured out the whole thing yeah and i think he knows we we we definitely had some nefarious like feelings about the guardians and it turns out i'm not saying they're good at all i'm what i am saying is they're fair i think he understands their indifference

[01:26:03] uh maybe that's not the right word but i i don't think that i mean i think their lack of being a part of the last few episodes has been solely based on the fact that they're doing other things right now um i think he knows that i think he doesn't care anymore um they're indifferent he's going to be indifferent to them right his priority is going to be protecting earth yeah yeah it's his priority

[01:26:31] does he's not a cop make me wonder what is he going to do is he going to go around and just look for right wrongs to be righted i guess that's what superheroes do right they just exactly exactly patrol so you know yeah i mean it but yeah yeah that's a good point you know he's not i mean this

[01:26:54] is a ring that's now powered by um a lantern that was forced to talk about that yeah so so so one of my points was to talk about this um this time that they spent on uh um on anton's anton's planet and and uh we do find out that uh noah you know kidnaps well sets an ester free from prison but but

[01:27:22] abandons him uh on this island in the middle of um this this lake uh of fear uh where if you fall into the water um you know that along with the air yeah creates uh chaos uh that we got to see where where he's waterboarding him in there yeah um yeah really yeah i um but we find out that noah

[01:27:46] noah was forging a ring uh or no forging a lantern so that he could use a ring right i guess sinestro knows how to do that sinestro did it what ring was he not the ring the the lantern well yeah but he was yeah but he had to get a ring the lantern's useless without a ring he had you know his idea his idea was to get guy was to take it from yeah the guy or from that's what

[01:28:11] or from was it who said that how john somebody was like ah he could get it from guy easy i i forget who said that but yeah he got sinestro free to forge the lantern and then i think he was going to take the ring from he knew that sinestro was the only one who knew how to kill a guardian and he wanted to kill the guardians for um kill just yeah being able to whip up a lantern like that it

[01:28:37] i should probably just not even think about it but where does the power come from i didn't research because i think the what i think in this case it comes from the the water which carries kind of the essence of what happened on that planet uh i don't think it's all fear i think it's laced with yeah so where does the power i mean it has so much power you know and is it infinite power in this lantern i don't this is this is um i sound like i'm being skeptical i'm more curious like i just

[01:29:06] want to no there's there's comic book lore to this but there is they don't explain it here but there is comic book lore to it sure that explains it a little bit better um because i feel like the source of energy is on oa and maybe the lanterns need to go back to oa to be recharged themselves at times but i can't remember again this that again the comic book has one philosophy on that

[01:29:28] which we can talk about later but but but they haven't clarified that for for this reality so and i think that that the reality too is that we don't know what sinestra did we don't know if there's a yellow ring we don't know we don't really know anything about that piece to anything other than we don't know why he was in jail maybe he was starting to build a ring or something it was confirmed john

[01:29:56] mentioned that he killed a guardian like yeah we know you can kill a guardian so i presume that's why he's in jail yeah but we don't know the context of that yeah whether he was caught you know trying to make a ring or making lanterns or whatever you know what i mean but they didn't um i didn't see anything um canon like in the show i didn't see anything in the interviews where they talked about it

[01:30:21] but we can talk in comic book talk about um how sinestro forged his uh yellow rings and yellow batteries uh somewhere down the line i i will just say this about the scenes um i i love this lantern i love the the cracks in it um i seen some theories about it i i love there were some comparisons to

[01:30:46] um pottery um created in japan that has the cracks and then they're forged together by by sealing it with gold and that's very much how this lantern looked and and i really like that a lot it's like an imperfection turned into art kind of and making it even stronger yeah i love that throughout this show you have sinestro's take on fear you know being powerful uh and then you have house take on fear

[01:31:13] where don't be afraid to be afraid uh and you this really cool balance of understanding how powerful fear can be if you're not afraid of it um so you're looking at something that could be portrayed as evil but how how was portraying it as being human again going back to humanity um so i was i you know i was looking at this lantern like should he use this fucking thing like i mean this is yeah sinestro like it might

[01:31:39] turn you into a bad guy or something yeah yeah but i think that when when hal said to him you know don't be afraid to be afraid i think that was he started to understand oh shit like this is you know i've been taught not to be afraid my whole entire life and here i need to embrace this fear that i have well they say courage is not not being afraid it's feeling afraid and doing it anyway

[01:32:03] and chris mundy the showrunner says we talk so much about fear in general over the course of the season for obvious reasons part of john's realization and even howls through the hologram was you need to accept it and embrace it a little bit don't pretend like it doesn't exist true courage and true heroism comes from understanding things are frightening and then overcoming them so it was all born of that it became a physical manifestation the lantern of the thing we're talking about

[01:32:31] mm-hmm yeah um i also just want to note that we didn't get a lot of sinestro we got a little bit of him and him yelling about the only way off of that island was through that water and how it could make him so i think we're looking at a pretty sinister guy i think he's going to swim through that lake and we're going to get we're going to get something

[01:32:56] a whole lot different i mean comic you know we'll talk about it in comics but they're you know he also he was trying to get uh john to oh get rid to charge the ring to get rid of hologram and then he was like oh that's not working so he tried to get hologram to gang up on john promising that he could bring how back to life but i think he was just saying that because

[01:33:22] he knows if you take out john then hologram is gone too i think he so that's why i and he's also a liar so that's why i don't think there's anything to that but he was basically just trying to undermine them in any way he could flailing really desperate yeah yeah not to say that they couldn't decide to bring how back anyway if they want to well i guess the only the only fly in that ointment for me is

[01:33:50] why is why doesn't this guy go why don't they take this guy back to jail why why why leave him on this planet this very possible way you know it's a very not easy to get off of but easier than to get out of that jail i would think although i don't know one man under kid went in and with a portal and gone but uh but you know it just seems to me like why wouldn't you want to bring them back why not tell guy gardener where he is and then have gardener take

[01:34:20] him back yeah that's a good point you know or do you tell me the guardians don't know where he is i mean how powerful are these guardians that they don't you know they don't they can't keep tabs on people is it i don't know they should be able to track the ring i would think and john's there uh this is this is the first episode where we have we're looping here with some things like there's some there's some holes here like there's some definite holes here they're more concerned

[01:34:49] with the emotional beats they want to land than yeah yeah it doesn't it doesn't and it's just because we're sitting here picking yeah picking at it you know it's it's you know it doesn't change the quality of the thing for me i also tried this episode not to be rigid about a structure i don't know if you guys noticed just trying to let it breathe and be whatever it's going to be yeah

[01:35:14] yeah i feel it's been kind of like that every time it has been i've had to wrestle it sometimes a little bit more free-flowing yeah speaking of that i feel like we've pretty much covered it right yeah yeah yeah let me take a quick look at my notes see if there's anything i missed um tom king just real quick while you're doing that tom king was quoted as saying you know john isn't

[01:35:39] using a standard green or yellow lantern he has created an entirely custom energy loop by rejecting the guardian's rules and embracing his own fear rather than suppressing it his intense willpower acts like carbon mixed with iron hardening the corrupted energy into a stable incredibly strong green construct so um they're saying that john has the ability to turn this kind of hybrid lantern into

[01:36:04] um good sounds like he's saying the energy is coming from john yeah yep yep but the forging of the lantern that is interesting like what made that planet did did he put him did put him where there was a forge where he knew there was a forge because there was a forge there yeah yeah yeah there was a forge there and and did he figure that i mean is there something about sinestro that we don't know

[01:36:28] on the show that we may know in comic book land um that that allows him to forge a lantern utilizing whatever's there on that planet which clearly is as fear uh and clearly is sinestro's strength because that's all he talks about yeah i mean to kind of wrap up my thoughts on it it it was all about breaking and breaking the cycle

[01:36:54] um you know we've got so many characters that are struggling with the legacy of the people who came before them yeah you know i mean you got john with his parents and noah with his mother and as well as not his birth mother but and and his grandmother yeah his grandmother that's thanks maybe it was sort of his birth mother his other birth mother yeah it's

[01:37:19] kind of and how trying to figure out how to move forward without being trapped by their past or someone else's expectations you know it the answer isn't to blindly follow the system or repeat the mistakes of previous generations to recognize those mistakes learn from them and choose a better path that that's what makes john's new oath so important i think he's not rejecting responsibilities

[01:37:44] taking responsibility for himself and that's why i think this was the right ending for the series as opposed to you know a big schlocky slugfest with lots of rings glowing and it wasn't about giving us a big superhero battle it was about showing us who john stewart is becoming and setting him up on the path toward being a superhero that he's destined to be so i thought i do well said i never i do have both we never did say both oaths i do have them both sitting in front of me you want me to

[01:38:13] roll through them real quick line by line just to show the difference sure all right so how's original oath oath i think that most greenly interned fans are familiar with i'll start there um it's in brightest day in blackest night that's line one and then john's is in brightest day in darkest night so a little bit of difference there blackest to darkest back to how's no evil shall escape my sight

[01:38:38] and john's is i'll embrace my fear i'll do what's right back to the original let those who worship evil's might noting evil and uh back to john's i choose this ring i choose this fight so he uses choose there twice and then the final my power green lantern or beware my power green lantern's light back to how

[01:39:05] um almost like uh you know a threat and then you come back to his uh john's in service to this lantern's light um where he's um in service of the light as opposed to threatening you know beware of my mind right um so the interesting i i thought the black i thought they're very interesting differences i agree

[01:39:31] and i've already talked about how i thought they tied into um john's growth and and becoming more self-actualized and self-determined as opposed to you know following leaders um but i i thought the blackest night to darkest night is an interesting change too um because it doesn't it doesn't change anything with regards to those issues of self-actualization actual actualization um

[01:40:00] but i think and i suppose you know it's possible that uh it was an attempt to eliminate potential racial overtones of the oath you know it's brightest and blackest but uh but i think also darkest is simply a more natural counterpart to brightest it makes more sense you know brightest describes the intensity of light and darkest is the most direct opposite as opposed to blackest you know what i mean

[01:40:27] brightest day darkest night um seems much more just like better english yeah yep

[01:41:58] okay uh there's pulled some quotes from an interview with the showrunners and i think there's at least one actor in here from hollywood reporter uh they were asking him about how it was a bit of a more low-key finale than people were expecting like we were talking about not a big fight fest and chris mundy said there was never a version of the finale that was more action oriented if we landed it emotionally with

[01:42:25] hal and john we've done our job actions for action's sake would have been distraction and incident instead of emotion and then uh damon lindelof said he considered episode five battle of rushville to be this series version of the cgi slugfest and sky beam invasion we've seen time and again he said if we had to make a two-hour lanterns movie you would have to have a bombastic third act action set piece and then two

[01:42:52] or three or three minutes of coda we got to do that coda over the course of the last three episodes yeah yeah uh and then king said coda coda a great walking dead episode oh god that was a horrible episode tom king said one of our sticking points from day one was to avoid cliches like they're the plague

[01:43:19] they make it boring and give you that superhero exhaustion we've seen a thousand think pieces about so it's not what you expect and that's entirely what this show has been and i applaud that i i like different things than what you expect uh they asked if noah had to reskin earl following the house fire and um mundy said that's an excellent question that i've never considered and then he started laughing

[01:43:46] and said i don't think earl needed to be reskinned i don't think earl goes down that easily and lindelof said i think earl's pretty resilient the botanical creatures of the galaxy can grow their own skin i would imagine earl probably has the thickest skin of anybody on the show yeah but to jim's point i thought also it was that was the significance of him covering him with his body oh he saved him so that and that's why and that's why hal was so burnt and why he had to be you know repaired because he

[01:44:14] you know he he gave up his body to protect her i mean he was a true hero i mean even for a plant about john saying i love you and the hologram saying i love you too junior uh kyle chandler said it was painfully exposed it was a purely honest open moment and it was a joyous thing to be able to do on screen it was easy to do with aaron because although i really don't like him very much

[01:44:43] i knew i was getting paid have you seen their interviews together they're pretty sure yeah uh chris money said the writers were quote crazily nervous about the choice to redo the oath until one of the writers justin brett gibson put things in perspective by saying we're not rewriting it we're remixing it uh and then monday says we were definitely nervous and scared about doing it but

[01:45:13] we started to say if we're not afraid of doing an idea then we probably shouldn't do it and lindelof said it just felt right and we understood that it's probably going to be the thing that divides the fandom etc king says john is not 100 in a green lantern anymore he has an unsanctioned lantern that has a bit of yellow and a bit of fear in it so he's not saying the same oath as every other green lantern just like a yellow lantern or an orange lantern says something different john is this utterly unique creation that he chose for himself so getting his own unique oath seemed to line up very

[01:45:42] much with the lore and where we're going from here yeah that's good i think that's exactly that's exactly how i saw yeah you know i also kind of thought the oath was always a little silly and i hokey hokey but i love that they really leaned into it for the series and the way that actors delivered it they really sold him well and i think too that like the way they

[01:46:07] showed how read it he always was like trying to hurry through as quickly as he could he's probably said it a million times but still well to me that that was that was a sign yeah you know for john that you know the the the the guardians and the core were not what hal thought they were originally yeah and and he wasn't he was alone you know he was a lone wolf really out he wasn't checking in with

[01:46:36] them when he should no he wasn't checking in with them he was you know he's doing exactly basically what john's gonna do but instead of doing his subterfuge leap what's the word subterfugically or whatever super he was on that he was open about it yeah that's a kirk yeah he's being yeah it's a made-up word um he's yeah he's doing it open yeah exactly um i i you know

[01:46:59] the um the fact that hal was that hero too we get to see it um when he looks at him and he goes you're ready like you he know like that version of hal up to 2006 like was the superhero right like we got to see that like we um gosh whatever happened with him in sinestro which is i'm sorry but if they tell us season two and it's sinestro's in it we're getting kyle chandler whether it's

[01:47:28] past or present or future he's gonna have to be started this part of the story because we have to know sinestro's story but i i think that happens in season two well maybe i missed something but you know that whole episode where it was about hal not wanting to drop the ball and you know that when the lantern said oh you're going to be training your replacement that was like them prying that ball out of his hand or realizing him realizing that was what was going to happen

[01:47:57] and i i feel like that was a big part of what made him into who he was when we first met him in 2016 probably but i mean if if his mentor like we don't know what his mentor did other than kill the guardian i'm just saying he he when he was in that position of wait a minute you're gonna take this away from me that's when he became like fuck you fuck you fuck you you know that that's really i feel like that

[01:48:24] could be be the whole explanation as far as i'm concerned but you're right there's maybe we'll see what maybe yeah maybe well there was 10 there was 10 years it wasn't there in between that yeah roughly somewhere like that so a lot of time they took they waited a long time before before they tried to take the ring away um i do have real quick i do have some news just real quick uh the season

[01:48:47] finale i congratulations and it's a manhunter and i met this i met this girl named zoe god she was great guys i cut off my pinky and look it's back but i'm pregnant um see you soon um uh lanterns season finale attracted 10.5 million uh in its first three

[01:49:15] days according to deadline uh marking a new series best uh the reason why that's a good thing is because the season overall over the course of time each episode um in the lifetime of each episode um is averaging around 19.3 million global viewers and growing um the season finale obviously didn't hurt that um so it has maintained um its pace is currently as 10 is less than 19 well well that's not

[01:49:43] the whole week well it's it's not the whole run so what they're counting is they're counting these episodes like so season episode one has been counted from day one up until now my guess is not each episode's not 19.3 my guess is that what they're what they're doing is they're taking over all viewers and they're they're dividing in amongst the shows is my guess um the point of that being uh that

[01:50:07] the 19.3 million global viewers per episode um is top five series launches in platform history so um the viewership for the series premiere which a couple of weeks ago maybe even a couple of weeks ago was 20 million is now reached 30 million so the series is one of those few series that is

[01:50:32] continuously like gaining viewers so who knows where that's going to be but um it does bode well i mean i can't imagine hbo is going to be the one that says no yeah it still hasn't been officially uh renewed but i feel like because they have the writer's room assembled it reminds me of welcome to dairy where they also had the writer's room assembled for a while before hbo went ahead and announced an official season two but the first season of that show was a success but not as big as lantern

[01:51:01] has been no yeah it's outperformed it um the penguin and true detective on its initial opening night although those two shows i think passed it eventually but um those shows started lower but ended up averaging about 20 between i think 17.5 million to 27.1 million and we've got lanterns already at 19.3 million so they're they're predicting that this could be a 30 million per episode show by the time

[01:51:31] it's they stopped counting numbers right that is crazy that doesn't happen these days no i mean and when you're talking like it's so good i mean we were just when you when you took a break we were jim and i were talking about just how much we missed having it sunday night you know i mean just they're not like standing there waiting for his fucking pallets crying because lanterns i'm gonna stay up later to

[01:51:57] watch but yeah you know it's funny too because when you do a podcast you know i've now podcasted a bunch of shows with you guys and some together some individually but you know when you get a good show and you know it it's so easy and it's so um inspiring and fun to do you know what i mean it's like it's easy to it's easy to to write my notes on this and my thoughts on this every week um

[01:52:26] and and i just wish that that more shows would try to learn from shows like this you know what i mean when i think of you know the same was like with loki you know loki was just so easy to podcast you know and um i had so much fun doing that and this has been just been fantastic i really enjoyed it yep yeah good i've been lucky to pick some good shows lately i mean we're well thank thank you for

[01:52:54] inviting me to be a part of it it's been a pleasure you guys were the perfect co-host for this and you know this podcast there were our coverage of lanterns appears on the standalone lanterns or casting light a lanterns podcast if you are listening on wax episodic and where we also host this if you could go over to casting light and give us a rating that would be amazing on apple podcast

[01:53:20] because uh we're we're not really coming up very high in the searches and we'd appreciate if if you give us a rating and a follow on there even if you listen to it on wax episodic that will help a lot but the other shows that i've picked for wax episodic alien earth um welcome to dairy pluribus severance uh fallout all great great and there's so great podcasts on too and i've i can't even

[01:53:49] imagine i can't even imagine severance that must be it's me and harry we're having a blast man it's really it's really fun yeah and now i know you don't agree with this but we're doing widows we've done a couple episodes and we're just having a blast i try we tried again you know a couple weeks ago it's not your thing it's a good episode but anyway sorry all right let's get into the feedback

[01:54:15] all right brad holtz congratulations brad um yes they stuck the landing loved it i hope going forward john keeps getting visits from the hologram and we get all three lanterns in the dcu i do wish we could have seen john suit up though that would be cool if the hologram became an actual lantern part of the

[01:54:39] that would be cool yeah ben beck with the exception of maybe superman and lois this first season of lanterns was start to finish one of the best pieces of entertainment dc has brought to the small screen phenomenal season and finale absolutely yep lisa edmondson walker says this series has been so well done characters well written and acted some mystery solved and new possibilities opened up and

[01:55:07] really interesting storytelling i'm hoping they get more seasons me too and i hope it still is good with the writer changes and everything you know yeah that fear we'll see yeah and maybe actor changes two because kyle chandler's who's go ahead sorry i didn't mean to cut you off no i just kyle chandler is such a big part of the series like if he's not part of season two it's going to be an interesting that would hurt no it would hurt yeah yeah yeah it would definitely change um i read that tom king

[01:55:34] is going to be working on his animated show mr miracle yeah for mr miracle but there's never been there's no nowhere has it have they said that he's not going to be helping on on the show at all i've read that he's so i don't i think people uh i did not i didn't i did not so maybe you can send me that yeah yeah i absolutely and then he's he's leaving and then two of the main writers um especially the

[01:56:01] the woman um i don't remember her name um you know they're still with it and the showrunner still with it so yeah i yeah i'm not i'm not as worried as i was originally when i heard you know that they were but i i heard king i heard king right after they announced lindelof they announced king and then they said that the writers room for the most part is going to be different except for uh the i think

[01:56:28] the woman you're talking about vanessa baden kelly is the only one staying um and rumors that she's going to be elevated to one of those positions at the top but my my guess is that they're going to fill it with uh people that um similar to specifically tom king i hope because i i want that comic book element but chris bundy chris bundy can run a show i i'm i'm confident of that it just depends on the rating

[01:56:54] yeah all right amy archer um this morning i had a chance to catch up on your latest lanterns episode and i just wanted to thank you jason kabassi kirk and jim for the thoughtful discussion about masculinity in light of what's happening with cornell and as a mom of two young women warms my heart to hear three men talk about how dangerous toxic masculinity can be um i just want to say i

[01:57:21] appreciate that comment because yeah me too um yeah it's been having a daughter myself it's been an interesting past couple of weeks you know social media has so many evils about it but there are some things that are great about it and the fact that that took off in terms of a story and it got out and people's reaction to it and i was glad to see a lot of men come out and um and and make statements

[01:57:49] about it and speak out against it and and uh take you know action um because it truly is it is really it's a male issue this violence male violence against women and it's only going to be stopped by men men have to stop other men from doing this we we have the way we raise men um the way we

[01:58:14] tolerate men the way that men don't speak up in a situation there were 50 some odd guys in that um in that text chat and none of them none of them reported anything or tried to stop it or said hey this is not good or you know brought it to anybody's attention their silence was as you know as much as

[01:58:39] participating and um you know so it it really is on men to to start you know stepping up and helping to stop this issue stop this problem in our culture i just really really appreciate you guys because really you guys were actually i don't even remember if i said anything about toxic masculinity i think it was you guys but i'm just sitting here going man these guys are fucking great so thank you

[01:59:08] well we have daughters i have a son to teach two of them yeah that's right i just i think i think the the thought i mean my son and i have had my son's a very curious kid um and you know we you know when i talked to him about this specifically on the phone the other day we talked about um how the problem you know a lot of problem a lot of racial divide in our country isn't happening because

[01:59:38] conversations aren't happening in in school of that schools with lots of diversity they're they're not happening in schools where there's there's lots of um uh we're populate we're white and white populated schools uh so i think i think the same can be said with regards to what we're talking about with cornell um you can see it even in the comments that are happening afterwards of course you have a lot of men who are standing up for um the the jane doe in this case but you also have

[02:00:06] a lot of men saying well what did she do like why would she have 10 shots prior to going to why would she go to this place alone and i'm thinking to myself none of that none of any of it none of what happened none of what happened before none of what happened during is a is it's so infuriating that we have people who are just saying well yeah she had 10 shots and

[02:00:31] she went there on her own so obviously what she meant was what she meant was she had 10 shots and she went to nobody should have expectation i'm sorry i i just it's um my wife was in a sorority and yeah she she said to me she said you know if anybody any guy from another sorority or from a party or whatever got shit-faced at our party and passed out we'd put a blanket on him right you know

[02:00:57] what i mean we'd make sure he was rolled on his side so he wouldn't aspirate and in the morning you know yeah he'd help make sure he got home all right it's like the thought that you would then abuse that guy never even comes into to the thought so yeah i just uh yeah it it's it's crazy it's fucked up

[02:01:20] i mean i just think that what i notice about the world more increasingly over the years is we're i feel like we're all sort of wounded or a lot of people and we don't it's we don't have that vulnerable connection with each other as much and we're quicker to hate or just sort of

[02:01:49] stay in our little tribes and think fearfully about other people that we don't know and i think that's particularly a problem with young men for some reason where they just need to be like tough and armored up and then they lose their humanity and their connection to their empathy and all that kind of a thing and uh it's we need to go the other way with that you know somehow that's that's i

[02:02:17] think it's as corny as it sounds the remedy is more love you know less hate more love and i wish i knew how to spread that all around but i don't know yeah i think well it's also a society's willing to accept you know this this kind of mentality and behavior i mean look we just had shane gillis on saturday night live yeah come out and say you know oh because the way women dress at the gym

[02:02:42] they're hoarse yeah i mean it's not even a joke it's not even funny joke it's just and he's like the most well doughy white pasted mediocre man and the reality too and and this isn't you know being an athlete being in locker rooms my whole entire life like this is not new i mean people are blaming it on you know obviously the past like 10 years of you know having

[02:03:11] a man like it the peak of our media constantly putting out this we can we can look at that maybe as a window opening but the fact of the matter is is prior to that um you could have people who talk one thing outside the locker room and they walk right into the locker room and you get two or three or four or five or six guys together and it turns into that toxic max masculinity yeah that we've

[02:03:37] talked about right okay who where were we uh megan megan o'connell uh megan o'connell that was a good finale i'm sad that how is gone really because i loved kyle chandler as him but i think overall the storyline was good from start to finish there's a few questions why was the girl who blackmailed john really in the show her part was much smaller than i thought it would be what happened to his plant

[02:04:04] can't remember his name i guess liana earl i guess liana was who she said she was a guardian not gone rogue no we don't know that for sure yet how could she yeah i think she was too but i still want to believe um how could carrie kill how i actually know why and how but i hate it you do i'll miss the

[02:04:28] three of you discussing this every week hope there is a second season okay bye bye thanks megan we kind of talked that through already yeah about uh yeah and earl earl was in john's house john's family's house you in the background the jack the blackmailer oh really cool yeah at the end in the for now when he comes home to greet his family yeah yeah good of course but i hope he ends up with john and i hope he's not with the family it'd be cool if you could start communicating with him

[02:04:58] he's trying to growling okay here's a call from rennie well i had no idea going into this show that it was going to turn out to be exactly what i needed to see right now uh in the making of after the episode damon lindelof said

[02:05:23] that they were going to tie up all the loose threads and and they did in such a satisfying way and it turned out to be about empathy and compassion and love and hope which is just not what i expected from a superhero show i think this has become one of my favorite superhero works of all time and i think

[02:05:53] john stewart has become maybe my favorite superhero astonishing i am so glad that i watched this and thank you again for all of your coverage of this season and much to my surprise i will be watching the next dc movie or tv show or whatever as soon as it comes out that's great based on how great this show

[02:06:21] was i'm nice nice hopefully you're welcome fan of the dc universe that's great i mean give the peacemaker a chance i think oh i love that but it was a good show if you watched the guardians of the galaxy movies then you know james gunn's sensibilities and if you if you didn't like those movies then i would say you probably won't like peacemaker and you might not love superman

[02:06:50] although it's a little little different but it's got some similarities as far as the tone goes it's not like lanterns that's so uh gritty and weighty and everything but i love it but i'm just saying like but one thing you will like about man of tomorrow i presume is that as we've said john's going to be in there so that might be reason enough alone to watch it yeah uh elena says hi jason kirk and jim first of

[02:07:19] all thank you for your coverage of this show it's been a blast listening to you discuss each episode thank you this show took me by complete surprise and i couldn't be happier about that along with fallout you've introduced me to another show i would never imagine i would be interested in sharp storytelling all around brilliant acting wry humor and unexpected pathos have all combined to make me hungry for more i also feel as though the writers have respect for the audience

[02:07:47] in the lack of exposition yeah that's a good point yeah that's a good point did that mean that at times i had to rewind and re-watch scenes which puzzled me sure but that's been part of the fun there are many portrayals in movies and tv of nuanced and complex female relationships but i can't think of many which depict the same for male relationships slash friendships slash frenemyships i'm a big big big fan of lindelof so i'm not the least bit surprised by his deafness at character building but i have to say

[02:08:16] that this show wowed me far beyond my expectations and this season finale did the same because i can't bear to miss any podcastica coverage i'm gonna have to get a peacock subscription so that i can follow along with crystal lake thank you we're covering the new friday the 13th prequel series crystal lake on walking dead cast so it's gonna be like dairy it sounds yeah because it's got even one of the same show runners brad caleb kade he was also one of the show runners on dairy and it was being very

[02:08:44] bigly bigly it was being very um odd you're infected now i am infected to put me down heavily promoted heavily promoted at new york comic-con definitely even that end so uh it's got please edit that out linda cardellini in it and um i've seen the first

[02:09:12] four episodes because we got screeners and oh wow friday the 13th is a slasher flick yeah it is i think yeah it's it's it's it's uh she's brilliant in it it's funny it's uh kind of twisty and it's got a lot of uh warmth to it surprisingly but some so is this like an origin yeah of okay it's

[02:09:37] it's jason isn't it is it jason or he's yeah yeah is she mom she's the mom yeah she's pamela or he's oh yeah it's funny i think but it's gruesome at times it's gory i mean it's gotta be yeah it's gotta be she kind of failed on on raising her son i mean who knew that the what was the name of that show she was on uh freaks and geeks who who knew

[02:10:03] who knew all right uh c4 from toronto um have to say i love this series always kept me guessing from the unexpected episode five season finale-esque nature to the throwbacks origin story scenes of hal and john the sheriff were my faves this episode was really unexpected i had assumed it would be a huge finale but it was a lot more quiet i think a few of you guys on the pod had suggested the sun

[02:10:30] was a manhunter you guys were all correct i still don't understand the aging aspect because i had thought from the lore you guys had discussed that once a manhunter takes shape they can't change into a different human older younger unclear perhaps perhaps yeah and i mean you know the babe i don't know she's half human he's half human yeah is she is he uh perhaps the difference here is that he was half

[02:10:57] human half manhunter the dna mixed and birthed by the sheriff uh the revelations were interesting about who killed hal and john selecting to finally wear the ring on his own terms but i think the favorite part for me was the very beginning i think it all happened even before the credits if i remember was seeing the relationship between hal and the sheriff bloom it was so fulfilling to see them as a

[02:11:21] couple and to see hal as accepted and loved because most of the scenes we see him as jaded and very isolated and alone moments when she went to pick him up from the prison um oh how lying on the bed with his boots on on post coital was cute post coital was a word i didn't think i would say today uh her standing up in front of the town for him at dinner was so romantic they really did a nice job in very

[02:11:49] short scenes of building their love it was beautiful yeah don't forget when she shot him in the head that was yeah and then of course the the shooting very directly directly in the head uh um and the only scene that frightened me was the fire developing uh developing the house so quick and how and how was trying to save the plant and i was so scared the plant was going to die it's like a pet um thanks

[02:12:16] for doing the pod i really like your guys coverage i don't know any of the lore behind green lantern the only thing i know is that green lantern was my favorite action figure when i was little he would often date my barbies so so it's been interesting hearing about their universe i guess when he showed up with that mask on he was like mysterious yeah step into my green bubble

[02:12:46] okay um i i love that you're getting this one kurt i love it i'm so mad i'm so i love it i didn't do it on purpose and i'm not mad because i don't want to read it it's just that i'm struggling with this name but i'm gonna do the best i can please don't i don't think i didn't count down the minute i didn't i started counting down i was like oh he's fine i wish i had done okay okay

[02:13:11] isamo isamo isamo hideaki yoki noari close nailed it you don't have to oh oh i made a little note here it just says uh isamo had a great message it was very long we did edit some of it for time and some we'll be in the comic talk segment just so you know but most of it's here hello again uncle jason

[02:13:37] uncle kirk and uncle jim i managed to visit my friend two towns over again this week to finish off the rest of the season of lanterns this poor guy has to has to travel to see the show and despite the yeah dedicated the despite the fact the lack of power ring action i suppose the lack of action in general it was still an amazing engaging show with great characterization and full of heart

[02:14:01] my all-time favorite green lantern show is still the 2011 cgi animated series that i used to watch on saturday mornings with my dad who was technically my stepdad but to me he was dad he was a long-time comic reader and we both loved what the creators did with the green lantern mythos i've never seen that so i'll have to check that out yeah i really hope the hbo show will get a second season and it would have been nice if dad was still alive to watch this new series with me i really want to know what he

[02:14:31] would have thought of it especially the jordan boys legacy which very was very poignant to me dad died yeah me too dad died of a brain tumor back in 2019 sorry to hear that yeah at age 56 that's rough and previously had tumors on his spinal cord that resulted in him becoming uh hemoplegic hemoplegic for a number of years from what i saw dad seemed to adapt to what he called his

[02:14:58] new normals and kept on doing the best he could for himself and for our family up to his final days however i discovered earlier this year that dad has had also been struggling with suicidal ideation starting in his mid-20s and that revelation shed a whole new light on how i viewed him coping with his various health conditions that's rough the hologram that hung around i was amazed at how

[02:15:23] the hologram managed to last as long as he did he mentions having mentions having about an hour of talk time left and later seven minutes and yet he's still there walking with john after a trek across the fear lake and the alien desert that looked like it would have taken hours however i believe john was subconsciously sustaining the hologram the same way he sustained the bird construct in episode two yeah i think so too which held for several hours after howl's ring had run out of charge

[02:15:51] i'd like to think john was maintaining the hologram throughout the last two episodes the same way and it's possible and the hologram tricking john into saying i love you at the end i loved that just as much as sinestro's smarmy delivery earlier in the episode as he tried to separately persuade both john and hologram to gang up with him to take out the other the flame missed earl i wonder how earl survived

[02:16:16] the fire i suppose noah saved him too hold on though that would have been that would have been nice if earl was actually shown in the long shots of the slaughterhouse scenes with the restored howl to confirm that at least we saw earl chilling on a console table in the steward home at the end fun podcast as always uncles gentlemen i look forward to hearing the last one next week that's great thanks man i yeah i just

[02:16:46] i can really feel how that episode must have resonated with you and yeah i mean just this way i love podcasting about great tv because it really is art and if it touches you like that it's just really special yep that's it hit me hard it poignant when you talk about the suicide iterations especially with news that rj mida committed suicide i know um which is still with the amount of work that he

[02:17:14] did for disabilities and for mental health for the course of his life um obviously we don't know the details but um yeah it's really upsetting i know i met him i've done a couple panels with him rj midi who played wall jr from breaking bad breaking bad really nice guy yeah okay let's have our traditional capper with steve brown let's go steve hello jason jim and kirk this is steve this is

[02:17:44] gonna be for the season finale of hbo max's lanterns what's it called dirt and stars well so we're back at 2016 after the destruction of rushville reckless endangerment is that actually a crime oh and here we are back at 2026 with hal getting out of jail and the sheriff picking him up oh good old schlitz malt liquor so now he's been in town for a month and they've been sneaking around but she's tired of that somebody just fire bombed his house oh and that fire spread quickly at least he grabbed earl

[02:18:12] is that noah so he's woken up in the hospital i had to back it up a little bit because he's woken up he's got a hole in his arm that's where he was shot right and now this is noah's about to walk in and talk to him so i think that means kirk was right right didn't he say he thought no one might be a manhunter oh careful john i don't know what that lantern's gonna do to your ring if sinestro forged it when the hologram stopped him charge the ring don't charge the ring carry the lanterns but uh what i'm very confused i feel like i'm gonna have to watch this a couple of

[02:18:40] times to understand everything that's going on or watch episode seven again and then watch episode eight again so noah was waiting for him on the other side of the portal and now he's stolen the ring from john and there it is john just said that she could have pulled him out of the car before it exploded so did he leave he got hal out of the house but did he burn did he let earl burn no earl's still alive right because we uh when was the fire because john found earl in hell's house right

[02:19:06] you're talking about the psychological things this kid is going through as far as nature versus nurture and him wanting revenge but also asking john to kill him what you're saying john is that your mother was waiting to exhale the entire time you're you were a child oh so when she healed her finger that's when she put the genes in her okay so we know who killed hal uh and now where is it

[02:19:32] gonna go from here someone drew a rocket ship on the green lanterns single uh he didn't say stars so it's kind of a mic drop but not really he wants he wants john to wire his own kind of like you guys are asking uh your listeners and i tried but i couldn't come up with anything well i didn't catch what the note said that he left on the money for the waitress uh and he flies i'm still sorry all right on to season two

[02:19:56] we were asking when the fire was it was pretty close to the end of his life because he got healed but then found out that noah was right the man started following me around and then um went and confronted uh carrie soon after that i think i feel like yeah well he wanted to leave with her

[02:20:19] yeah that's right i think uh right before the fire she said she invited him to the game which was that friday and i think it was the same because it was when they were together and he went home right after that and that's where the fire was so sometime within the week oh yeah okay yeah yeah sometime within the week and then um the hole on his arm was not from the gunshot it was um right it was from

[02:20:44] the alien technology i think it said that it had to take some dna in order to make yeah didn't john john had the same yeah the same thing yeah all right that is our show except for the the usual comic

[02:21:11] talk section which will be right after this but for now thanks for listening everybody and really thank you guys for following along with us this season if they have a second season i'll be back covering it what about you guys oh heck yeah absolutely i mean we gotta show the ring we gotta do like a video component to show the rings because they're gonna work that's right we're gonna be showing up we're gonna have to forge we gotta find sinestro to forge us a fucking lantern i'm gonna be making some 20 bills

[02:21:46] on brightest screen and blackest mic no theory shall escape our sight with thoughtful takes and deep insight beware our podcast we're casting light and now we're into comic talk should i read the message from isamu first god please it says earl's comic roots green lantern had an alien plant pet

[02:22:15] in the comics in the 1970s a tiny irie a y r i e how called itty you can get a look at him and learn about his brief history with hal in this who's who entry written by my dad and collage by me using mike grell comic art i just cut out a little piece of that but he actually sent the whole thing it's like one of those uh what do you call it uh like an encyclopedia of comic book stuff anyway for a

[02:22:40] posthumous shum who's fan publication i'm sure you can see some similarities between iddy and earl and there's just a drawing of a little plant creature so i probably was inspired by that it was like a starfish he says over analysis of impurity i'm seeing so much fan speculation about john possessing the dark lantern sinestro forge that i view as too much extreme overthinking john's lantern is essentially

[02:23:08] a power battery with a yellow impurity which was how the power battery was described in green comics from 1958 to 1994 to explain the power rings weakness to yellow jeff johns would later retcon the impurity to be the parallax entity living in the main power battery on oa this doesn't necessarily mean john has to deal with a yellow weakness going forward because of what sinestro said about harnessing fear i agree with fans who suspect that john's ring will be more powerful

[02:23:37] with the unsanctioned lantern than it ever was when wielded by hal i'm sure there'll be some wrinkle about it that will cause trouble though i i would guess uh those who loathe new oaths don't knowth that was great reading that's cute reading fan comments about john stewart creating his own oath being a sacrilege had me shaking my head before jeff johns came along the official silver age comic book history was that hal jordan had come up with the in brightest day and blackest night oath himself

[02:24:06] and in the over all comic book history the golden age green lantern alan scott had used the oath first starting in 1943 other members of the green lantern corps would later adapt howl's oath because they admired and respected him but other green lanterns had their own individual oaths including plant themed and sound themed versions the green lanterns creators even encouraged readers to create and mail in new oaths for their favorite alien green lanterns with some appearing in the comics so

[02:24:34] yeah i've read that too people are just being assholes so you want to talk about sinestro and parallel i mean uh well or whatever one yeah i want to talk about the forging of so obviously sinestro eventually leaves the green lantern corps obviously becomes um

[02:24:59] and forges um a yellow lantern and yellow rings um a yellow ring initially so and i forget specifically how he does that but it has something with record i think he was banished to another planet or dimension i think he went yeah yeah and he uses that other dimension to and tells them about the

[02:25:24] impurities of the impurities of the green rings and then they forge a pure yellow lantern out of antimatter if i remember correctly um i keep you know i that forges the ring and then the battery it's feel fueled completely by fear as opposed to the green lantern which which has it sort of didn't that part

[02:25:46] coming later with jeff johns associating sinestro with fear i think that stuff came in um maybe but maybe green lantern rebirth yellow i think yellow has always been yellow was but not fear yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but um so he sinestro didn't specifically forge it in the comics he

[02:26:16] used the the weaponers um i think they were the ones that actually forged it with his help and knowledge yeah so there was so we were i was wondering and i think a lot of people were oh is this where he's gonna make a yellow ring for himself when he's on this other planet with a forge sitting right there i think they probably knew we would be thinking that so it went against our expectations that he didn't but i'm kind of a little disappointed like i want to see full

[02:26:45] sinestro with his yellow ring i hope we get that at some point i just can't i just can't you know it has he had a yellow ring yet we don't know like we don't know anything so yeah that's right he may have already had it and created mischief i don't think so though i would guess not you know i think we're seeing his origin story yeah he's stuck on this he's stuck on this you know planet i think

[02:27:09] your idea is going to swim through that water and it's gonna yeah change him yep oh creating god knows what god knows what anything else comic-y i'm i'm now i'm now interested in green lantern comics in the way that i've never been in the past i put some into my cart and amazon and everything else some some of the john stewart focused ones and uh yeah it's it's gave me some curiosity

[02:27:36] then there's a new um there's a new one with a black female character from earth yeah i bought that becoming what's it called it's got some awards yeah far sector it's got some awards not words yeah i wanted to read that because she ends up becoming the the lantern of a alien sector totally alien sector do you know but she's an earth she's a human but she's but human yeah do you know um

[02:28:02] the new there's a format dc compact comics and yeah yeah i i just found out about that recently ten dollars and you get yeah it's it's a little smaller but a whole story i got uh it's a lot smaller frontier it's great though i got d i mean you have to pick the ones where you can read the text but i got um dc new frontier by what's that guy's name kind of important when you're talking about

[02:28:29] comic books yeah and far sector and man i mean they're selling like crazy they're introducing a lot of people to comics who wouldn't read them otherwise and yeah comics are just insanely expensive now to the point where i've stopped reading them i don't want to pay yeah me too i haven't been buying regularly for a long long time but i'm interested in these compact things and far sector actually bought that one i have it ready the compacts

[02:28:52] sizes similar to like all of manga see overseas yeah oh that's really it's always the whole right oh damn thing yeah yeah so new frontier was was like five or six issues right so it's like five or six issues put together into one just like this uh which i could remember that well i think it's actually i think it might be more than five or six isn't it because five or six is a

[02:29:17] trade yeah yeah um what else oh i i would be very curious to know what you think of greenland and rebirth by jeff johns if you're at all interested yeah blackest night is another one that that i've been curious about because the whole zombie aspect of that yeah but greenland and rebirth i think is where you get introduced to the idea of the whole emotional spectrum with the different colored rings

[02:29:44] pretty cool anyway all right everybody there is your two and a half hour podcast see you next time damn beware motherfuckers we're casting shit here peace casting light you you you you