Severance S2E10 "Cold Harbor"

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Huh... Podcast to go! If you help me, I won't abandon you. I promise. You know what I think? I think the second you get your wife back, you forget I ever existed. I think that I disappear along with every innie down there. What do you want from me? We are in this together. Can't you just trust me?

[00:00:32] No. He's a fucking child. He won't listen. Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Karen. And this is Wax Episodic. This episode, we're covering Severance Season 2, Episode 10, Cold Harbor. Finally time to learn all the answers, right?

[00:01:00] We're gonna learn every single one of them, except maybe not. Well, at least learn one of them. When I finished this episode, I was like, I'm still lost. I'm lost, but then I thought about it more and I'm not quite as lost as I thought I was. Oh, you're still lost. I don't know about you. You're still lost. I'm still lost. Yeah. But I feel like I understand it more after my second recent watch than I did after the first watch. Yes. After the first watch, I was like, wow, we learned nothing.

[00:01:28] And then after the second watch and thinking about it, I'm like, well, we learned a few things. We learned a few things. Yeah. Yeah. It was a long episode. I'd like to talk about a few things before we start. First, big thank you to Eric for joining me last week. He was great. I listened to the episode. You guys were amazing. Oh, good. I really, I really, really, really enjoyed it. It was so fun. He's such a good guy. He is. Yeah. He's great. Love him.

[00:01:53] Then I wanted to mention the one year anniversary of this podcast is coming up on July 7th. Last year, Randy, Kara and I covered the original Alien movie starring Sigourney Weaver in preparation for Alien Earth. So happy birthday to Wax Episodic. Happy birthday. Yeah. That's delightful. One year old. Yeah. And this is our final episode of Severance until season three, whenever that comes out.

[00:02:21] So if you want to know what's next for this podcast, Wax Episodic, along with some other plans I've been thinking of, then stay tuned to the end of the podcast and I'll do a little segment on what's coming up. It's been a fun journey, the Severance podcast with you. We've had, what is this, 19 episodes? I know. Yeah. It's a lot. It's been great.

[00:02:44] Like, I'm the one who brought up this show, but you really jumped on it and you were more excited about it than me. But now I'm way more into it than I was when we started. And it's been, it's been a pleasure. Yay. Oh, I'm glad. I'm glad. I'm glad. I'm glad. And I think that my appreciation for it has grown even more than before. I loved it before and I really, now. You're like, I don't like it as much anymore.

[00:03:12] Doing a deep dive made me love it more. All right. That's good to hear. Well, let's get into the finale season two, episode 10, Cold Harbor. Through video recordings, Mark's Audi asks his innie to rescue Gemma from the testing floor after he completes the Cold Harbor file. Otherwise, Gemma will die. Mark's innie storms off after he realizes he's being asked to sacrifice himself and Helly. Dylan returns to read a letter from his Audi deferring his resignation request.

[00:03:40] Mark arrives on the severed floor, completes Cold Harbor and receives a celebration from Milchick and a marching band. Ellie and Dylan trap Milchick in the MDR bathroom while Mark searches for the hallway to the testing floor. In the Cold Harbor room, Gemma is tasked with disassembling a crib. She responds without emotion to Dr. Mowers and Jamie Egan's delight. Drummond summons Lauren to sacrifice a goat, but discovers Mark attempting to break into the exports hall.

[00:04:08] He tries to kill Mark, but is subdued by Lauren. Mark takes Drummond hostage, but accidentally kills him in the testing floor elevator during the transition to his Audi. Mark finds Gemma and they escape to the severed floor, reverting to their innies. Miss Casey and Mark S. Mark guides Gemma through the exit door, but chooses to return to Helly. The two run through the hallways as an emergency alarm blares.

[00:04:36] So this is the episode we couldn't really remember, although I didn't mention it on the podcast, but I did have flashes of a marching band when I was thinking about this episode. Yes, that marching band was amazing. It was. It was. I mean, I have to say we had 75 minutes, so it was packed full of interesting things.

[00:04:56] It felt like a real culmination of the past two seasons, honestly, dealing with big, big issues that they've been dealing with all season long, like love and identity, what it means to be a person, all that good stuff. Mm-hmm . And the first time I saw this episode, I was sort of mad at any Mark, you know, Cobell told you what would happen. They're going to discard you like, you know, a skin husk or whatever she called it. And now I'm not mad at him.

[00:05:25] Now I understand him a little bit more. Wait, oh, why were you mad at any Mark? Because I, you know, the really fun thing about this episode is to get to see someone have an argument with himself, basically. Yes. And I had a strong opinion. I was very judgmental of one of them and totally on the side of the other one. And it's the opposite of you. I was totally judgmental of outing Mark and on any Mark side the whole time with no doubt. I was judgmental about outing Mark too. Okay, okay. So why were you mad at any Mark?

[00:05:54] Well, the whole, because the whole season, the whole series, it's all been about reuniting Mark with Gemma. And at the very last, I guess I was more mad at the showrunner because I really wanted Mark and Gemma to be together. They had maybe, what, 10 seconds of kissing and being happy and reunited.

[00:06:20] And then she goes out the door, he stays in, and that's it. And then he runs away with Helly. To make that relatable to you, I'd put it this way. You're in this hallway and you've just helped some stranger escape. He's outside, right? Yeah. And he's like, come out, Karen, come out. And you turn around and there's David in the hallway. Yeah. Do you go out to the stranger or do you stay with David? No, of course not. Of course not.

[00:06:47] I just wanted some way to make everybody happy. And the whole... Polyamory, I'm telling you. That's what it might have to be, brother. I know. A weird kind of polyamory. I don't know if that qualifies or not. I mean, if you're going to have two wives, those would be two good ones. Yeah. Yeah. But it's really two Marks too. Yeah, it is. So it's really poly. It's poly in all kinds of ways. That's right. Even with just one person. How about you?

[00:07:16] What did you think of the episode? I loved it. It was so wild and unpredictable. Yes. The marching band really just made it for me. Oh, yeah. I mean, the marching band and Mark having a conversation with himself. I just love the way they did that. Yes. Those two things just make the episode great. It was just fun and crazy, extravagant, wonderful. A little bit frustrating that we didn't learn more. Yeah.

[00:07:45] And being left on this kind of a hopeless cliffhanger. Like the cliffhanger was sort of romantic, but also like, oh, what the fuck are they going to do? And I kind of wonder if the writers were like, what are we going to do after this? Ah, that's somebody else's problem. That's our problem next year. Sounds like a season three problem. Like, should we just end it here? Because we don't know what to do next. Yeah. This seems like a good place.

[00:08:10] Supposedly, according to something I saw online, they were writing parts of season three. Like they know where this is going. Okay. Supposedly. Because it feels like you're writing yourself into a corner to me. It really does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But you know, none of those complaints that we didn't learn as much as I might have liked, and that it felt like a frustrating cliffhanger to some degree, won't make any difference

[00:08:39] once we get going again. Yeah. So it doesn't bother me that much. I mean, it's like right now I'm like, damn, this show only comes out every three years, but once it's all out, then it won't even matter at all. I'm sort of thinking about, because I mentioned to you before we started recording that on The Walking Dead rewatch, we're covering the Negan first appearance and there was that cliffhanger if you saw The Walking Dead where he killed somebody with his bat, but you didn't know who for six, seven months and everybody was pissed off about that.

[00:09:08] Yes, I do remember that. Anyway. All right. Let's get into our points. Do you mind if I go first or do you want to go first? No, you go first. I realize I always say that. And I never mind. I actually prefer it. Okay. So my first one is what is Cold Harbor? Yeah. Because last week, well, one thing I was wondering last week when Eric was on was why Milchick wouldn't just step in and finish up the file himself.

[00:09:34] And I think the reason that innies feel something when they manipulate the numbers is because of the chip, right? It's interacting with the chip. It's the technology of the chip in their head. Yes. You can't just have a person that doesn't have the chip do it. I also wonder if it had to be Mark because of his relationship with Gemma. With Gemma. I think it is important that Mark does a lot of it, but it made me wonder because we saw

[00:10:04] the other MDR employees working on some of these files. Helly was working on Sienna. Yeah. And we even saw Dylan finished Tumwater. That's right. And Tumwater was one of the doors on the testing floor where Gemma is. And Mark said, I've finished 24 files and Cold Harbor would be the 25th. But at one point Gemma said, I've been to all of these rooms except for Cold Harbor.

[00:10:34] Right. So that means that Gemma's been to a room Tumwater that was a file that Dylan finished. So that to me, if you're going to make that not be a plot hole, it means there's more than 25 rooms. Right. And then some of them are files that the other employees finished. But I guess it's probably important that Mark does most of it for some reason because of their connection. Yeah.

[00:10:58] And I think that because this relates so specifically to Mark himself, it that Cold Harbor room was the crib that Mark just assembled. And then when she had her miscarriage, broke it apart when he was drinking. And so maybe because he was so significant in that room, he had to be the person to finish the file. As it turns out, Cold Harbor isn't even that significant.

[00:11:26] It was really just, I mean, it wasn't really important in and of itself. It's just one more test to make sure that the severance barrier holds. Right. Well, I think it's, yeah, it's maybe the most important one, but it's just one of them. Right. Right. Maybe the most emotional for her and him too, maybe. Right. Totally. Totally.

[00:11:51] I mean, I still, I think you're right that Mark is, it's important that it be Mark to do a lot of this and maybe especially the Cold Harbor one. But I also do think that you need to have that chip to be able to sit at the computer and do it, you know? Yeah. So I've been talking about how Lumen is all about alleviating pain in really fucked up ways. Yeah. And like ethers about that and the severance procedure itself.

[00:12:16] But now we know that the innies have been, well, we kind of already figured this out, but they've been binning numbers based on a feeling of one of the four tempers that Kier wanted to tame. Right. Or frolic dread and malice. And, and they're called refiners. So they're refining to get rid of these impurities. So I think this is a technologically advanced way of taming the four tempers of getting rid of undesirable, according to Kier emotions.

[00:12:44] And then Cobell tells any of the, any Mark, the numbers are a doorway into Gemma's mind. And so it's like they're refining these emotions out of her mind. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Something like that. So that she won't have emotional responses to bad things, to negative things.

[00:13:09] So when Jamie Egan sits down to watch Gemma in the, in the cold Harbor room, it says it's an efficacy test. So it was just testing to see if finishing the cold Harbor thing did anything. Yeah. So it made me wonder if all these other rooms were efficacy tests too, for their files, like the plane turbulence, the dentist, the thank you notes. Right. To see if she could withstand these bad experiences without feeling pain. And then cold Harbor is the final test of her being confronted with her deepest trauma.

[00:13:39] Oh, that's yeah. That seems, that seems right. I hadn't actually thought of it exactly like that, but I think you're right. And, and so Harbor is a place for shelter and protection and cold is emotionless. So it's like being protected by not having, you know, and then like, like you said, Dr. Mauer said the barriers holding. So it's just like a way to keep these emotions buried behind some barrier or something. It sounds really, really healthy to me.

[00:14:08] Just kidding. It's unhealthy. You need to process your pain and integrate it, not hide it away. Pain is a part of being a human of, of having sympathy for other people. Cause you've gone through things yourself, you know, stuff like that. Yes. Yes. Uh, by the way, did you, um, hear about this fun little Easter egg that they put in there on the box for the, this is way back in, um, in the early season when they showed Mark and

[00:14:37] Gemma, um, when he got the, the box for the crib on the outside of the cardboard box for the crib, uh, it said something, you know, make and model or whatever. Um, you can just make out the name of the crib is Cole C O L and Darber D apostrophe A R B O R something like that. Cole Darber. So that doesn't sound like it has an in story reason.

[00:15:06] It's just an, a meta Easter egg, right? Yes, exactly. Exactly. I love it. So this brought up some questions for me. I, uh, you know, Mark is making consciousnesses for Gemma. It made me wonder for a minute if someone else had to refine a file to make the consciousnesses for the other innies for Mark, for Dylan, for Irving, for Helly, but I don't think so.

[00:15:34] The way they presented it, I think just implanting the chip did that. And the innies, like I've been saying are pretty much just the same person except for without conscious knowledge of any of their outside experiences. But Gemma is different because they're refining her consciousnesses to withstand this pain. So I, I, I, or whatever, like that's sort of just theory, but so that she does, she can have negative experiences without feeling any pain.

[00:16:04] But the innies don't have that there. They, they, they feel pain if they have experiences. Yeah. So they haven't had this refinement done to their, any consciousnesses. Right. I think that's right. Um, it also makes me wonder how many times they've tried this on other people and, uh, how many other, other times, you know, this can't be the first time they've tried this. You don't think so?

[00:16:30] I don't, because if you'll recall, um, when Drummond is talking with, um, the, the, um, who's the, the, uh, Brianna Tarthes? Oh, uh, Lauren. Yeah. Gwendolyn Christie. Lauren. Uh, when Drummond and Lauren are talking, uh, she asked him how many times must I, must, uh, I do this or how many more of these? And he's like as many as cure demands.

[00:17:00] Yeah, that's true. Yeah. You're probably right. I mean, I, it seems like they kill a goat for every test subject that dies. Right. A really, really cute. I know. Yeah. I think, yeah. I hadn't thought about that for some reason. I just thought she sort of intuited that there would be more, but now that you mentioned it, it sounds like she's already been through this. Some, some amount of times. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so if. If the idea is to.

[00:17:31] Cause this isn't for Gemma. Like it's not that Gemma is going to be this person that now feels no pain that they can use because that's what the goat is for. They're going to kill Gemma. And that's what Cobell said too. She'll die. So it's more about the refining of this technology. I don't know if they'll actually use the chip that's in Gemma's brain and implanted into somebody else or, or what? Probably. Yeah. Yeah. So is this like, I mean, okay.

[00:18:05] Okay.

[00:18:36] That maybe they will be the ones that will be the beneficiary like Helena or whoever. But, um, you know what I mean? Like they'll, this is like, they think of it as their superpower. So they use this technology to erase any reactivity from their, their cells or whatever. But then that makes me think of Jane coming in there with Heli and saying, you know, I thought you had the spirit of Kier in you. So maybe they're trying to like resurrect here somehow.

[00:19:03] And they're trying to find a good, they'll find a good receptacle for this new technology. I don't know. It's pretty speculative. Yeah. Yeah. I it's, that's a, one of the questions that really is still hanging out there is what is Lumen's endgame? What do they really want?

[00:19:23] Severance, the severance technology is a little bit different or being used in a different way than whatever the hell they've been trying to do refining and the numbers and all that. It's a little different. Yeah. You can use, maybe there's some practical reasons why to, in the, how to use severance to get severed if you have a bad experience, et cetera, et cetera. But then this taming of the temper.

[00:19:52] So that's the whole other thing. So we still don't know. We really don't know. Yeah. I mean, with severance, you know, it's marketed anyway, as if you have a severed half, then you don't have to experience the pain of going to your job or having a child giving birth. You can just leave that to them and you don't have to think about it. But the problem is that the severed halves do have to experience it.

[00:20:20] And so it seems like what they're going for with Gemma's chip is if you're actually doing the thing, you won't experience the pain. So that's where the difference is. Right. Right. Like she can be dismantling this crib. Now, I was a little confused because she's dismantling the crib, but she doesn't remember her pain either. It seemed like she is just like a severed person. Yes. You could have any Mark dismantling a crib and he wouldn't have a problem with it either.

[00:20:48] So it was a little bit confusing to me. Yes. But I do think the idea is that they want to develop this technology where if you implant this chip in yourself, that you can do hard things that would be painful for most people and it won't, you won't feel anything. That seems like one of the things that you could do with it for sure. Yeah. But I have no clue if that's right.

[00:21:13] But no, I mean, I, I, that's what I think, but I don't know if we had another podcast, I'd say listeners, let me know what you think of that, but we don't send it in anyway. I'll read it. We'll be back for season three. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. We'll learn all the answers in season three. Just kidding. Iconic vibes. Zum besten price. Wow. Get mit euphoria in the dritte staff. A few years after high school, I didn't know if life was so, like I wanted to.

[00:21:41] Streaming up on April 13th parallel to the US-Start. We're now a new episode. The problem is, if you're a pack with the devil, there's no back to it. We'll be more than a new one. We'll be more than a new one. Highlights wie House of the Dragon und Wicked. Alles ab nur 2,98 Euro im Monat. Streaming war noch nie so wow. Kaffee in seiner besten Form. Mit Cubo wird jeder Kaffee auf Knopfdruck zum Genussmoment.

[00:22:07] Denn mit der neuen Cubo One Kapselmaschine von Chibo genießt du feinsten Spitzenkaffee aus besonderen Anbaugebieten. Vollmundige Aromen dank innovativer Press-Brew-Technologie und über 17 Sorten Kaffee für jeden Geschmack. Erlebe Premium Kaffee schon ab 29 Euro. Entdecke jetzt die Cubo Kapselmaschinen in deiner Chibo Fiale und auf Chibo.de. Ein perfekter Frühlingstag. Sonne. Park. Picknick. Und so viele Polen.

[00:22:37] Shop Apotheke sagt Tschüss Allergie und Hallo Frühling. Hier findest du alles um unbeschwert durch die Allergiezeit zu kommen. Als Neukunde sparst du sogar 10% ab 35 Euro Bestellwert. Mit dem Code NEU10. Du hast ein E-Rezept? Einfach Shop Apotheke App runterladen und direkt einlösen. Gutscheinbedingungen auf shop-apotheke.com slash Gutscheine. Okay, I'm done talking about Cold Harbor. What else do you want to talk about? Okay, let's talk about the plan to save Gemma.

[00:23:07] And so we open to the Demona Birthing Center a much nicer cabin than the one that Devin was in before the... Because this is for Jamie Egan's mistresses. Yes. They get the special cabin. He sired a lot of children. He sired a lot of them. So... Shadow. What did he say? Something about shadow children or something? Yes, exactly. Exactly.

[00:23:37] Yeah. He's super great. And she even said, you sound like a great dad. Yeah. He's a great dad. And she's like, you know, I don't want to talk to any Mark and find out if he's completed Cold Harbor. And right away we learn he hasn't completed Cold Harbor. So that's great. Cobell celebrates. There's a chance we can still save Gemma. Huzzah! Although I don't think she really cares about that. She's just presenting it that way. Yes.

[00:24:07] So she can get him to, what, go in and disrupt everything because she just wants to ruin them? Yeah. What is her plan? We still don't know what her whole deal is. Because when Devin says, you know, if they find out that Gemma is still alive and the kidnapping comes out, then Lumen's going down and Cobell's just standing there like, yep. Yep. I don't know. I think Cobell might be on the side of the resistance now. I do too. Yeah. But you never know with her.

[00:24:36] No, we never know. She lies a lot. Yeah. And even if she is on the side of the resistance because she hates Lumen, that doesn't mean that they can trust her because it's like the enemy of the enemy is my friend for now, but you never know what they're going to do. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:24:55] So I loved, I love the whole scene where, as you mentioned, we finally get to see Mark talk to himself, his innie and outie talking, which we never thought we would get to see. It's so brilliant. So I love that, that Devin tips her hand to any Mark and says, if we can prove she's alive, that they fucking kidnapped her, it'll end them. Like you just said.

[00:25:24] And how any Mark replies, well, will happen to us. So right then it plants a seed in his mind, like, oh shit, they want, these people want to end Lumen and thus end my existence. The best part of that is Devin says, what do you mean? And it's clear she's never thought about that. Yes. And we've been going through like critical of Lumen for treating these innies like they're nobodies.

[00:25:49] And even to some extent, Mark or anyone who does a severance procedure in the first place for putting, creating another person that has to live in these conditions. But here's Devin, this person that we totally admire and she didn't even give it another thought. She didn't. And it was just chilling. Yes. Although, although in Devin's defense, her information, at least from Mark previously, is that things are not great.

[00:26:15] Any Mark, when she saw him laugh in season one, in the finale, I think he mentioned that, yeah, things aren't great. Right? Yeah, you probably want to end your existence, right? I just took that for granted. Well, when, when, when, when, it's not, I mean, when, when, when Helly came out in the series finale of season one, she said in front of everybody, you know, they're torturing us.

[00:26:45] Yeah. They keep us prisoner where they, they say we're happy. We're not, we're, we're fucking miserable. For sure. And she tried to kill herself. I mean, the way the Devin actress whose name I always forget, which I'm sorry about, because she's amazing played it. She just wasn't even thinking about it. No, she wasn't even thinking about it. And I love that because it's just how people are sometimes. Yeah. And, you know, you need to learn.

[00:27:08] But even later, like in this sequence, when Mark's like, he's a child, he, he's like, he, you know, he, he, he just thinks that I'm just gonna like, um, do this. And then, and then, yeah, I forget what the words were, but basically, you know, he's going to be gone forever or whatever. And she's like, oh, well, he has a point. Right. She is saying, yeah, I'm just like, we don't need him.

[00:27:37] She's forgetting, though, that, that Mark has started the reintegration process. And that. I don't think so. I think that's why she says he has a point because she doesn't want him to keep doing that because she knows that it's dangerous. I don't know that he can stop at this point. I don't know that there's anything that you could do to reverse the reintegration process.

[00:27:58] Maybe, but, um, he, he has been seeing flashes of the, of his innies life and his innie has been seeing flashes of his outies life. So he's not going to end entirely, which is what Audi Mark tried to explain to him. Uh, and, but he, any Mark wasn't having it. I get the sense they need to actively do something to continue that, but maybe I'm wrong. Yeah. No, I think you're right. I think you're right.

[00:28:28] Maybe he's in some like sort of in between place right now. Cause you're right. They are having these flashes. So I don't know if it would make sense just to, but the way this episode presented it, it seemed like the idea was, yeah, Mark has to like any Marks is saying, I don't trust that you'll do this, which sort of implies Mark has to do something to make it happen. Right, right, right, right, right, right.

[00:28:53] And honestly, I don't even know that he could find Rigabi and get Rigabi to continue. I, I wonder if Cobell couldn't do it cause she says to Mark, you know, you don't have to be erased and they didn't really follow up with her on what she meant by that, but I presume it means reintegration. So maybe she could do it, but she could have just been lying too. Uh, but she, yes. But since she's the architect of the whole thing, maybe she knows.

[00:29:24] Yeah. Um, I loved it. I'm totally interrupting you. I'm sorry. No, that's okay. That's okay. I loved how they filmed it. I thought it was so brilliant. Yeah, me too. I love that they used the camcorder to switch back and forth. And at first it's a little stilted, but then they edited it so that it was a seamless conversation between the two of them. And Audi, Mark, when he goes outside, he's sort of blue in the moonlight. And then any Mark is by the fire. So he's sort of red. It was mesmerizing, I thought. It was.

[00:29:53] It was so good. And I loved how, yeah, they eased us into it by using the camera just as it would be in real time. But then little by little, it just felt like instant responses. Like that's what you just said, but it works so well. Yeah. It was perfect. Such a great scene. It really stands out as one of the best scenes ever. Yep. Yep. Yep. And it's what I remembered when we started doing this. I remembered that scene that was like, oh, yeah.

[00:30:23] I remember loving it. I didn't remember the specifics, but I remember loving it. Me too. I remember them arguing. I didn't remember how, because I love that they start off seeming like kind of delighted, like, oh my gosh, I'm actually talking. And wanting to try to be cordial. Yeah. But it went bad, like conversations among real people do sometimes. Yeah. Which is crazy, because it's him. I know. So weird. It's so funny. He's such a child. That's you, buddy.

[00:30:55] And I love that he sort of dives in with, I'm sorry I made you live in a nightmare. And Andy Mark gets defensive and is like, it actually wasn't really a nightmare. We figure out how to make it okay and have a life here. And then Andy Mark messes up Helly's name. Oh, dude. Yeah. That's where he really blew it. Everything goes sour after that. Yeah.

[00:31:23] When he mentioned that relationship with Helly, he was very belittling and dismissive. He got her name wrong, kind of scoffed at Helena Egan, right? Like that. And then said, I'm glad you had that experience, which is past tense. Like, it's over. And then he implies that his relationship is more important because it was longer. Yeah. And he's basically just saying, yeah, you got to give that up, right? Like that's nothing compared to mine.

[00:31:52] And then Andy Mark makes the point that if I reintegrate, you know, her Audi's not going to. So I'm going to lose her. Yeah. But yeah, it's like, that's where I was feeling really critical of Audi Mark because he's showing that same bias against the innies. And I mean, I could understand it. I don't know if I would, I think I'd be better, but I can still understand it.

[00:32:21] If I'm like, Hey, I'm me. I did this thing, but I'm still like the prime Jason here. Yeah. Jason prime. You're just supplemental Jason. Yeah. But it's not true. You know, you made a whole person, man. You got to be responsible for that. They don't. Although like I'm trying to think, okay, what if, uh, I went through this whole thing and, and then, you know, I'm in that hallway, uh, looking at my wife outside the door and

[00:32:50] my girlfriend comes up behind me and I decide, all right, I'm going to go out the door and, um, hope that my Audi self finishes this reintegration thing. So I go out the door and run away with Gemma and then now I'm my Audi self and Lumen gets in trouble and goes down, goes kaput. Right. And then I get a call from Rigabi. It says, okay, shall we continue the reintegration procedure? Uh, it could be kind of risky. What would I do?

[00:33:20] I might be like, no, no, yeah. Yeah. I don't, I, I probably, I don't know. I hate to say this, but there's probably more of a chance that I would just not do it. Yeah. Just like Devin said, you know? Yep. Yep. There's probably zero chance. Yeah. I don't want anyone monkeying with my, with my brain. Yeah. It is interesting to think about and sad. Yeah. It is sad because I love any Mark.

[00:33:50] I do too. I don't want him to disappear. I love all the innies. All the innies are, are fully developed characters. I wonder if you could, if you were tired of your self, let's say, let's say really like, okay. Yeah. I mean, could you, one of the uses I suppose of severance, and I think I brought this up

[00:34:15] before is that you could have the chip put in and then just have it switched on. Like the overtime contingency would be switched on 24 seven. You would just be that erased version of you. I mean, you would, yeah, but you'd just be asleep basically. You know, you wouldn't. And the thing, oh, you mean forever. You would be, you would be the erased person. Yeah. Yeah. They would, you would be, uh, your any person would be the only, your any person would be

[00:34:44] in your outie person is gone. Your any person now is alive. That's suicide. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. I would never do that. Well, I know you wouldn't, but, uh, but one can imagine if it's between killing yourself forever and getting severed and starting fresh. Right. With a new, a new, you know, your any version of you that's erased all bad experiences, all experiences.

[00:35:14] It's like starting fresh, but it's not though. I mean, it reminds me of this game called Soma where they could transfer your consciousness into a doppelganger of you. It was like a clone, right? And to the clone, it would be like, uh, nothing changed. But, um, so this, the star of the, he's he, the star of the game, he's in like this facility that's about to explode or something.

[00:35:44] So he gets his, a copy of his consciousness put into his clone. That's in like a spaceship or something beamed out there. Right. Right. And then, and then he's goes, Oh wait, but I'm still here. And then there's this clone of me in the spaceship that's going to go on, but it's not me. He thinks he's me. He feels just like me, but I'm still me stuck in this room. That's about to explode. It's kind of dumb that he didn't realize that was going to happen. Anyway, that's sort of like what it would be like.

[00:36:13] Cause you'd be like, Oh, I'm going to start fresh, but no, it would be a copy of you that starts fresh. You just be gone. Sorry. My brain just broke. Cause any Mark started fresh, but he doesn't think he's Audi Mark. He doesn't have any memories of Audi Mark. Audi Mark gets no benefit from that. Audi Mark gets no benefit.

[00:36:36] But if you're in terrible, terrible psychic pain and you have, you have two, your alternatives, you are one alternative is to end it off. And the other alternative is to get severed and just start anew as the erased version of you. But you're not starting anew. I mean, basically the difference between that from your point of view is, Oh, my loved ones will still have a version of me.

[00:37:03] So they'll be better off, but I'll still be gone either way. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's freaky. Sorry. What's your next point? Well, let me, let me look through my notes on this one just to see if I had anything else. I don't, I'm not sure I might, but a cobell tells Mark what to do. That was sort of interesting. Yes. It was fantastic. Finish the file, go to the testing floor.

[00:37:29] Or then your Audi will find Gemma, take her back to the severed floor. And then you need to guide her to the exit stairwell. And that's exactly what he ends up doing. Yeah. But this whole thing is about them trying to convince him to do that. And they pretty much fail, you know, any Mark pisses him off. And then, um, and then he cobell takes a shot at it again and tells him, you know what? They're going to, uh, erase you after your final day tomorrow anyway.

[00:37:58] And reintegration is your only chance. And there's no way for you to be with Heli. It's just a fantasy. And he's pissed off at that point. He's not like, okay, I'll do it. He's like, fuck you. Uh, do you know, I want to, the next thing I see better be the severed floor. You're never going to see your wife again. And then I love that. The next thing we actually see is the severed floor. Yeah. But, um, the only thing that convinces him is when Heli tells him, he tells Heli everything and she goes, you should do it. Cause it's your only chance of any kind of having any kind of a life. Yeah.

[00:38:28] And she's like sacrifice, knowingly sacrificing her own existence and everything. Such a sad scene. It is such a sad scene. And that scene comes right after Jane Egan comes to her and, uh, tells her I was crossed with you. I threw a tin of candies at you. And, um, he, he tells her, I know I love that. Um, and by the way, if anyone wants to throw a tin of candies at me, that would be awesome. I would love that. I love the, uh, I eat them so hard. Oh my God.

[00:38:58] They're lovely. Uh, at Trader Joe's it's the, um, the green tea candies that they sell at their register. Yeah. I buy them at like five tins at one time. I buy those $8 candy bars that are like one pound chocolate. And then do you like just sort of squirrel that away and work on that all week? Yeah. It takes me at least a day to eat it. Oh, Trader Joe's you're so good. Yeah. So good. Anyway, back to the candies.

[00:39:27] Sorry. Right after that though, he tells her, I see Kieran you. Um, you know, I don't, I do not love my daughter. I used to see Kieran her, but she, um, but he left as she grew. And as you mentioned before, I sired others in the shadows, but it wasn't in them either until I saw him again in you, which is crazy. And you and your family created hell and you're going to burn in it. Right. Right. Right.

[00:39:55] And then she sort of has a, has a, yeah. And she has a pen and it's as if she's going to stab him, but in the neck. Yes. But then something sort of holds her back. Um, yeah, she's had a real turnaround, um, in this season. From going to, um, from being the, the person who wanted to hang herself to falling in love. And, um, never would have guessed that in the first episode, that scene where she wakes up

[00:40:24] on the table and marks this weird, proper, you know, office guy that, that it would turn into a love story. Yes. And she throws the speaker at him and hits him on the head. Yes. Amazing. Yeah. So this scene was really interesting. Um, right at the beginning of this, which was actually in last week's episode, he said, you tricked me, my heli.

[00:40:45] And I just think that, so, uh, you know, the severed halves have the same essence, but one is without the life experience. So Helena's life experience has been him oppressing her and expecting perfection to where she's just had all the life squeezed out of her. And her whole existence is just showing him how perfect she can be. But Heli has none of that.

[00:41:10] So now, uh, I think Heli is probably a name that he called her when she was a girl. Yeah. And now, now this feisty woman is reminding him of his daughter when she had those spirited cure qualities. And it's just funny how sometimes the qualities that people admire in each other are the ones they eventually try to diminish. I see that in couples sometimes where somebody is exciting, but then you get together and you're afraid that those exciting qualities are going to, uh, be a threat.

[00:41:39] So you try to tame them down, you know? Yeah. Like people try to tame each other all the time, but she's untamed. Tamed. Heli's untamed. Also life kind of tames them for you too. True. Yeah. But I just think in this case, it's probably, I don't know how much Jane Egan realizes it, but it's probably his own fault that she's not like that anymore. Yeah. It's through his influence that she's just been beaten down, you know?

[00:42:02] I mean, in the last, was it the last episode where she, um, you know, uh, cuts the pieces of the egg into six pieces and, and then he, he just wants to watch her and creepily says, you know, I wish you'd take them raw. Um, it is as hell. What did Heli say? You're such a fucking weirdo or something. Such a fucking weirdo. Um, yeah, I, he, she lives in her dad's house. Her dad controls everything. He's making suggestions about how she should take her eggs raw.

[00:42:32] Gross. Um, yeah. No wonder she's been beaten down. No wonder she's had the, the wildness tamed out of her. I don't blame her. Right, right, right. But this, yeah, this conversation sort of made me wonder if, um, he is trying to find someone that he can, that could be his cure or something. I don't know. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, which makes me think, I wonder what will happen then in season three. Yeah.

[00:42:58] If, if Jane has taken a liking to Heli, um, hopefully she'll be spared. Oh, yeah. Perhaps. That's a good point. And, and. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. There's no, no incentive to spare Mark, but there's an incentive now to spare Heli because we see her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like if Mark gets free and could do the reintegration, but Heli, you might fear that she would just cease to exist.

[00:43:26] But as you're saying, Kier might want, I mean, Kier, Jane might want to keep her around. Yeah. And then she could also use that as a leverage point to say, well, if I'm going to be kept around, you have to keep Mark S. Right. Any Mark. I can see that being something like that. Yeah. That's how they can sort of leverage that. Who knows? Who knows? Okay. Now tell me the ending of the whole series. Yes. Just kidding. Okay. Couldn't imagine.

[00:43:55] I'll go through Mark finishing the Cold Harbor file. Yeah. Do it. So there's a statue of Kier waiting in the office. Creepy as fuck. To witness him. This whole scene was so surreal. And it wasn't a statue. It was animatronic. It was animatronic. Yeah. Very Disney. And Mark and Hellie, you know, she encourages him to go ahead and do it. And they finish it together. And it was like kind of sad and romantic. Yes. Cuddle up together doing it.

[00:44:25] Yeah. Then the Kier statue says, Mark S. In completing your 25th Macro data file, you have drawn my grand agenda near to fulfillment, thus making you one of the most important people in history. So this is just part of the grand agenda. And it made me think of Eric last week talking about how this could all just be the tip of the iceberg for all this stuff. I thought that was an excellent point. The, the iceberg picture in Milchick's office.

[00:44:55] Then speaking of Milchick, he gets introduced and comes out. And then it's really sad because the Kier animatronic keeps throwing shade at him. Um, which who's controlling Kier? Yeah. Who's controlling that? I think it's Drummond. So weird. Yeah. Maybe. It was weird because they were playing it as though it was scripted. Yes. But Milchick seems caught off guard. Uh-huh.

[00:45:22] And, and then he, and then he riffs and. Yeah. Well, wait, wait, let me get to that. So first Milchick says, you know, may I say you're looking very handsome. Thank you. I'd say the same of you, if not for my favorite core principle, probity, no vision laugh track. And then Milchick laughs along and then he reads the next part. Well, it's truly special to host a man so illustrious, so sapient, so magnanimous. And then Kier says, my, you're verbose. Good thing you didn't write the first appendix. It would have burst.

[00:45:51] Ha ha ha. Which is actually funny. And there, there Milchick looks hurt. Yes. And, and I, my, I think, I mean, it's just surreal. So maybe there doesn't have to be any sense to it, but to me, it seems like he's, it is scripted, but he's reading it for the first time. Uh-huh. Because that's when he says his next line without looking at the card. It's an honor to receive your barbs, Mr. Egan. The legacy you've left behind is truly inevitably larger than life. You mean my company?

[00:46:19] No, I mean this wax statue that's five inches taller than you actually were. And then there's nervous laughter. But the funny thing about that is he's acting like it was Kier that actually threw shade at him and he needs to insult Kier. But Kier's dead. And, and my guess is that Drummond is controlling the statue because Drummond's giving him shit for using big words. Or, or the board. The board. Mmm.

[00:46:46] I mean, I, I got the sense that, that I, it felt like, it felt a little bit like the voice was the voice of the board a little bit. I don't know. We've never heard them before, but it could be. I mean, didn't we hear them? No, we've only heard. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I mean, who knows? This doesn't map to anything we've ever experienced before. So I don't know.

[00:47:16] But Kier's a bully. I know that. And, and the sad part is I'm just watching actually the beginning again because Jenny's curious. So we've watched the first two episodes. And now she's curious. I know. I know. She kind of likes it. And she, so I just watched when Milchick is staring lovingly at that big giant sculpture of Kier in the Lumen Lobby and saying to Helena, oh man, I love seeing the sunrise on his face.

[00:47:46] And now you've got this animatronic Kier giving him shit. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Well, it's not Kier unless it's, unless they have his brain in a jar somewhere. Well, they might. They might. I don't know anything people. And then my favorite Milchick introduces choreography and merriment. And I, I'm delighted by this.

[00:48:11] I was in, I don't know if anybody's going to care about this, but for four years I played bass drum and then snare drum in the Byer High School Colonial Marching Band and Color Guard. And we spent like two weeks over the summer and then countless Tuesday night practices learning and perfecting our field show, which we then took to competitions all around California. And we won second in the nation one year. Our band director was insane and just worked us like crazy, but it showed. And then we played at Disneyland and like World Expo and everything.

[00:48:41] It was really a thrill. And I still have dreams about it sometimes when I'm out doing the field show. So just seeing this and they were badass too. This band was great. What I thought when I was watching it is it drum lines are associated with the black culture and the sort of the show style of like choreography and drum lines are associated with the historically black colleges and universities,

[00:49:10] the HBCUs. And so I thought, oh, this is exactly what Milchick would have chosen. This is, he's been bullied all season. And, you know, those crazy pictures of altered to make it look like Kira was black. And yeah. Anyway, he's been sort of bullied all season. So like, what would he pick? He would pick a drum line. And he seems...

[00:49:36] Next thing you know, he's trapped in the bathroom with the drum line just playing away right in front of him. Not helping him at all. Not helping him. I love the drum line. I love that they were branded lumen. I love that their instruments were white as if they had been designed by O&D and that they were 3D printed by O&D. I think that is so great. I loved Milchick's moves were so fantastic.

[00:50:05] He was the drum major in the second song and it was fantastic. I loved it too. It really, really was. He's so amazing. Anytime you get him a chance to perform like that, go for it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It was just so crazy. I guess the point was just to show, hey, this is a big deal. We're really going to do it up, right? And they're the choreography and merriment department. Let's get them.

[00:50:30] But it was so fun and weird and unexpected and entertaining. And I love it. Yeah, it was amazing. Just amazing. And then when he did get trapped in the bathroom, the music really fit with him trying to get out. It was just really energetic, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And he ran and tried to kick open the door by landing these amazing kicks.

[00:50:56] I was looking at it like, dang, he's getting horizontal there trying to land these kicks. It was incredible. And when he finally did bust open the door and tipped over the snack machine, I watched this a couple of times. It was crazy.

[00:51:12] It was crazy. A standing jump. It is amazing.

[00:51:42] And he just lands on top. And he looks in command, except then, of course, he faces around. And it's Dylan who says, fuck you, Mr. Milchick. And the band is standing right behind him. You sound sad about that, but he fucking deserves it in my opinion. Because he's a total asshole. Yes, he's a company man. Dylan's like, what did he say? He said something about, yeah, you just want our innies to be stuck here. Right, Milchick?

[00:52:12] Or something like that. Looking right at him. Right, right. And then, do you want to talk about Helly's big speech? Yeah. Yeah. So she stands up on the desk and asks the band to join her in the resistance. And she tells them, I know you've lost friends too. You might be next. They give us half a life and think we won't fight for it. It was amazing.

[00:52:40] But they didn't do anything, did they? Or did they? They probably did. Well, they didn't do a lot. Let me tell you. She did grab a couple of their instruments. She clocked Milchick with a trombone, I think. Oh, that's right. And then one of them got mad. That's property of choreography and merriment or something. Yeah. That's funny. All right. What about, what's next? Let's talk about Dylan. Dylan. This was a big episode for Dylan, too.

[00:53:10] Because he, in the last episode, he had actually submitted his resignation to his Audi. And he gets the letter back. And he gets the resignation form back. And then, I love Milchick. Um, uh, gives him the resignation form. And it was like, I'm really, really busy. Bye. And pew. And zips out of the room. And, uh, Dylan reads it. And I loved what his Audi said for him.

[00:53:38] His Audi actually didn't deny his request. Dear Annie, I've read your request and organized my response into three points. Point one. Fuck you. Keep going. I didn't write down the rest, but the rest was really nice. The rest was really nice. And then, in the end, he says, uh, in the meantime, if I'm being really honest, I guess I like knowing that you're there. So, if you want to leave, you can. But I think you should stay.

[00:54:06] And you can see the box where it says approved or disapproved. It's unchecked. Okay. Very gracious. He didn't deny it. So, he can still leave, which is pretty amazing. Pretty much exactly what Eric and I said we'd both probably do in his place, which is to, when he found out his wife sort of had a little affair with his Annie. Respond badly, but then calm down and come to his senses and be more understanding. He did pretty much that. Yeah.

[00:54:34] And he was understanding, it sounds like only, uh, with his wife saying, you know, I hope someday she sees in me what she saw in you. But also understanding towards his Annie saying, it's your choice. So, it was just a really warm moment. It was. I love it. Compare and contrast that to Mark V. Mark. Audi Mark versus. Yeah, or L.E. V. Helena. Or Hallie V. Helena. Yeah. Exactly.

[00:54:59] It seems like, uh, Indy and Audi Dylan kind of make peace with each other in a way. Um, they want to be the best version of themselves for Gretchen and the family. And they both clearly worship Gretchen. Um, which is lovely. So, I thought that was nice. So, it can work out. A thruple is possible. Seeing Mark argue with Mark, I feel like that's what it would be with me. I'd just be like, oh my God, is this what it's like to talk to me?

[00:55:28] Fuck you. Yeah. Yeah. I'd get to do a podcast with myself and be like, you always interrupt me. No, but I love that. I love that moment with Dylan. I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah, it was great. Okay. Let's go with the rescuing Gemma. Yeah. So, we see Jane watching her test in the Cold Harbor room.

[00:55:58] We see Heli steal Milchik's phone as a distraction and trap him in the bathroom. Then, um, we see Cecily, the nurse, take Gemma into the room with the crib. And, um, then Lorne from Mammalians Nurturable arrives with the baby goat, which has verve and the most wiles of its flock. Yeah. And Drummond says that this beast will be entombed with a cherished woman whose spirit it must guide to Keir's door. Is it up to the task?

[00:56:28] So, I think that we know now what Mammalians Nurturable is for. Yeah. Goat sacrifice. Yeah. And it seems like there's no, uh, technical reason for it. It's all ritualistic, ceremonial, culty bullshit. Yes. And, and the problem is when you hire shepherds, um, to tend your flock, your shepherds will, um, fall in love with your flock. It just happens. Yeah.

[00:56:57] And you could tell by the look on her face. She was not happy at all. She named him Emil. And she loves Emil. Emil was the cutest freaking coat goat I've ever seen. And I've seen some very cute baby goats. Yeah. And Emil was, um, possibly full of wiles and verve, um, but also, um, uh, delightfulness and a cute little smile. Basically. And lived. Yes. Yes.

[00:57:27] Yay. Go Emil. And, uh, Drummond says we commit this animal to cure in his eternal war against pain. And I'm like, that's very ironic that you're about to kill this cute animal in front of its clearly suffering owner in the name of war against pain. Getting rid of pain. Yeah. And it, I don't know if I'm reading into it, but if I apply the metaphor of corporations where we've talked about how they exist to create solutions that make life easier for

[00:57:55] people to sell to them, but, um, they end up leaving damage in their wake a lot of times. Yes. Yes. Uh, so then, uh, Mark S arrives and this fight with Mark and Drummond was crazy. Then, then, um, Drummond's about to kill him and Lauren comes in and it really felt like a fight right out of game of Thrones, except in this lumen white lumen glowing hallway. It was pretty spectacular. It was dark. Yes.

[00:58:23] Uh, the actor who plays, um, Mr. Drummond, um, is, could be in game of Thrones for sure. And Brianna Tarth, we've seen her. Do not piss off Brianna Tarth, man. I can see now why they thought of her probably having this scene in mind. Yes. She's amazing. Did I mention she kissed me on the cheek one time? Yeah, I think so. So, uh, anyways, I like that Mark didn't let her kill him.

[00:58:53] No, no, no, no, no, no. Well, he needed him. That was nice. Yeah, but that's not why he did it. He, he did it because he didn't want to see someone get murdered in front of him, even if it was this asshole Drummond. And I like that because it makes the show feel more human and less John Wick, you know, it's like people aren't disposable, even if they're not nice. Um, but then he accidentally killed him in the, in the elevator room. The writers knew that we would all be like, oh, good. I love, I don't, I do. Uh, the only thing I got to tell you, I disagree.

[00:59:23] I think that, that the only reason he saved him was to use him to get down to the floor that he needed to get down to. No, I don't, I don't. We watch that scene again. You'll see the look in his face. Like he doesn't want, I don't think he wants, um, someone to die because of him. And I don't, I even got a sense that he didn't want her to have to live with having killed someone. All right. We'll go. Your, your version is much nicer. I mean, you're right.

[00:59:52] I don't know. No, no. That's what I took from it. Your version is a lot nicer. So I choose to. I don't think he knew that he needed someone until he got there, you know? Uh, yeah. Well, what then? Why would he, why would he, um, take him at, at bolt point or whatever that gun is, um, to, in the elevator? Like he, it feels like he needed him because he, he grabbed him. I think, uh. To show him where Cold Harbor is.

[01:00:21] Cause he wasn't, he was on the wrong floor. That's true. He was on the wrong floor and he did need to go down to the right floor. So he's like, I need you. No, no, I'm not. What do I know? I mean, yeah, maybe he did realize. But I still, I, I don't know. Now I want to go back and watch again, but I think it was just Mark being a good human being. And I would have done the same thing. I wouldn't, um, I think actually if he was just trying to choke me to death, maybe not, but I'd like to think that I would say, no, no, no, don't kill him. He's, we, we took care of him anyway.

[01:00:50] Um, then I liked that Mark faced off with nurse Cecily and it's just such, it's crazy that I think these scenes are fun maybe, but he's like, open the door now do it. No, do it. No. Fuck you. Fuck you. Runs away. As he's like firing the bolt gun as if it's a gun. Like that doesn't work that way. That's so funny.

[01:01:14] Then he slyly figured out the blood activated entry system with his blood soaked tie. Then seeing Gemma in there. So this sort of makes me wonder if my theories are all wrong about what cold Harbor is, because if it's really to make it so that being confronted with emotional things, but you won't feel any emotion. And she's really scared of him. She's like terrified. And then he goes, I'm your husband.

[01:01:42] And, um, then Mark, Dr. Mauer and, uh, Jamie are pissed off watching and she takes his hand and guided her guides her out. And James is like, fuck. He's not part of the test. Yeah. Yeah. And then I like in the hallway, uh, you see nurse Cecily running down the hallway going, it's the fucking spouse. It was perfect. Perfect. So funny. Uh, she plays that so well. I hope we get more of her. Yeah.

[01:02:13] Then, yeah, they wake up and, uh, or no, I'm sorry. They get out when Gemma comes out, she becomes herself again and they have this really beautiful, uh, reunion. Then the alarm goes off the red and white, which is so also very beautiful. I thought we, we saw that early in season one when I think Kelly activated the code detector trying to smuggle a note out. But, um, then I love that they get into the elevator kissing and then they become Mark S and Miss Casey. Yes. Whoa. Only in the show would something like that happen.

[01:02:42] What did she say? She said, what, uh, what is transpiring or something like that? Something like that. Yeah. It's hilarious. So that was, uh, everything. Well then I might as well just keep going right to the end. Then, so Mark guides her out, but stays inside. And we kind of already talked about that, but going outside for him is risking just ending his life.

[01:03:07] And both, I was thinking how both Irving and Dylan wanted to quit, which is basically ending their existence. Yeah. When they lost their loves, when Irving lost Bert, when Dylan lost, um, Gretchen, but his love is standing right there. Yeah. And so he takes her hand and runs back through the halls with her. And, um, it made me think of Cobell having said, Mark, there'll be no honeymoon ending for you and hell you are.

[01:03:32] But it did kind of feel like an old sixties, like with that song playing the windmills of your mind. Yeah. It felt like the graduate or something running along, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And also in the graduate at, at some point you look at their faces and you could tell they're both thinking, Oh shit, what now? And there's a little bit of that, I think where, Oh God, what, what now? Oh, cause they, they have like, as far as I know, not much leverage or control.

[01:04:00] They're just in the complex of the enemy and that's the only place they can exist. It's such a shitty situation. It is a shitty situation. The only thing, like I mentioned before, the only thing that gives me any kind of hope is that, uh, James Egan, um, sees Kier in Helly and that maybe he's thinking, well, she's kind of better. I don't love my daughter. So. Yeah. Maybe we can overtime contingency her. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Like you're saying. Yeah. We'll just go with this version. I like this version better. Right.

[01:04:28] One of the things I loved about the, when you were just talking about the Mark rescuing Gemma scene, I really enjoyed that we see, and it must've been hard to write, like incredibly complicated. We saw four iterations of Mark and Gemma together. We got Audi Mark saving any Gemma and then they exit the room and briefly it's Audi Mark and Audi Gemma and then they get into an elevator where they're kissing as Audi Mark and Audi

[01:04:57] Gemma and they become any Mark and any Gemma. And then, um, when any Mark shoves any Gemma out the door, she becomes Audi Gemma. But there's different Gemma too. You got, you got to get that part in there. Yeah. There's a lot going on. It must've been hard to keep track of and hard to write everything. Uh, I mean, we saw Cobell telling him and, and, um, uh, Cobell and Devin telling him, here's what the plan's going to be.

[01:05:26] You know, it's not going to be you who's going to rescue Gemma. It's going to be your Audi, but you're going to have to get when the elevator happens, you're going to revert to your innie and then you're just going to have to get her to the exit. But when he wrote, when he woke up in the elevator and accidentally shot Drummond in the neck and blood spurted out, I was like, wow, that's a dark episode of quantum leap.

[01:05:57] What? What? Shit. I love the, the, the blood fountain that comes out of Drummond. All right. All right. Notes. All right. I have a couple of notes. One is, um, the exalted victory of cold Harbor, the painting that's right outside the elevator. They, um, yeah. And it, it's, uh, it does look weird and like a Renaissance depiction.

[01:06:26] Um, the, the suffering on Mark's face, um, is creepy and it's like everybody he's ever known is, uh, is there as, um, as an innie. So, and I think there are even some people that he didn't maybe know. Um, but there's all kinds of, um, but there's all kinds of, like the MDR clones are in there. Oh, well, it seems like they're standing atop the tallest waterfall in the world. Yes, exactly. Exactly. There are four tempers make their way into it. Petey. I didn't notice that.

[01:06:56] There's a goat, I guess. Yeah. It's hilarious. I want that painting now. It sounds awesome. You can probably order it. I probably can. Yeah. You could probably get a print of it. I also, uh, wanted to mention that the only quibble I had with this episode really, I had two, two very small quibbles, really small, and I'm sure they can both be explained away. One is when the band is doing their, their, um, awesome, uh, first song, I think at the

[01:07:24] end of their first song, they raise up, um, pieces of paper maybe, and then you get an overhead shot and it's, it's, um, Mark's face, but from the, from above. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like on a field show kind of a thing. Yeah, exactly. Like who are you showing that to? Like who's going to see that? Okay. Whatever. That's just a small quibble. And, um, and second, um, it seemed like there's besides drumming, there's for something

[01:07:52] that's supposed to be the most important thing in the entire history of the world. Um, there's hardly any security. Like security is really lax there and maybe they just have never imagined having to. Well, wait, what do you mean? Like security of what? Yeah. Cause they're down on the bottom floor. So the security is probably at the top. Yes. But like. And they need cards to get in. Key cards.

[01:08:23] You'd think that, you'd think that they would understand. I mean, like Mark actually succeeds in rescuing Gemma and you'd think it would be harder than what it was. I mean, he had to kill a guy and use his blood soaked tie to get into the security keypad. All right. Fair point. Fair point. Fair point. But there's one guy, one security guy. That's it. Yeah.

[01:08:48] I'm just thinking of, uh, Apple as I do watching the show and we had, Apple's very like crazy about security. They don't want anyone to know any of their secrets. And, uh, so you need a key card. Do you have to, do you have to give your blood anywhere? Yeah. You have to get blood to get into the iPhone area. Yeah. No. And, uh, there are security guards. There's, uh, they're not like everywhere, but they're driving around. Okay.

[01:09:18] Okay. And, uh, where are the security guards on the severed floor or where are the security guards? Like the band was there and that chaos happened for a long, long time. Um, yeah, they could have got somebody down there, huh? You'd think that they'd have eyeballs down there, but I guess not. Whatever. What do I know? All right. I had just a couple of quick notes. I'm, I'm really curious to know how the show will change now that Gemma's out since the show's kind of been structured around her so far. Rescuing Gemma.

[01:09:48] Yeah. I mean, first it was Mark, um, mourning her the first season. And then we learned that she was Miss Casey and now this whole season has been about rescuing her. So now she's out. And is she gonna, is she gonna get out? She's in the stairwell. Yeah. Uh, if she does get out into the real world, she'll be saying, she'll be telling them what's going on. So that's interesting. Hopefully she sprinted down and exited the building where Devin and Cobell were waiting for her in the getaway vehicle.

[01:10:17] And now they're gonna. They're smart. Yeah. And now they're taking her to a safe house. Mm-hmm. And all the security guards are out there shooting at them. Yes. And I also wonder if all of this will have an impact on her. You'd think it would, right? She's been severely fucked with for a long time. So maybe that'll be relevant somehow. Yeah. She has been severely fucked with. Yeah. It's like that hard bull egg.

[01:10:47] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then, uh, last is I just can't believe we never got back to Rickon's story after he was tasked with writing that version of the UUR. What happened to that? I, I, I want to know what happened. I hope they don't just drop it. He's been in daddy mode. He's been taking, taking care of the baby. We planted that seed, you know, and we didn't get to see. I know. Fruit from it. I know. I know. I hope we also get to see Irving again. I hope that I. Oh yeah.

[01:11:16] Absolutely. I hope that he and Radar have found a place to land far, far away. Um, maybe with a view and that he, and it's sunny all the time and that he and Radar are living their best lives. And maybe, maybe Irving is now like, um, part of the resistance, but from a distance and, uh, oh, and I want Irving to find real true love. Yeah. I want to know, that's one thing we don't, we know very little about.

[01:11:46] We know he was investigating Lumen. He was building a file on a lot of the employees and also had articles about bad things that Lumen had didn't did done. So, you know, that was the angle, right? It was anti Lumen, but we didn't really learn that much of it. We heard him reporting to some secret person. So, uh, there's a lot left to discover about Audi Irving. And, um, I hope people don't mind me saying this, but John Turturro is coming back.

[01:12:16] He's not off the show. Is he? Do we know that for sure? Yeah. He's talked about being in season three. So, so that's, yeah. So I'm applauding. That whole happy ending that you had might have to be deferred until a little bit later. Well, he could, he could be on the show as working in the resistance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, a line to say to somebody outside and see how they respond, just scream. It's the fucking spouse.

[01:12:46] Or just, uh, tell somebody you're going to hurl a tin of candies at them. Yeah. And then do it. Yes. They'll love it. Make them, make them delicious. Trader Joe's, everybody. Don't make them Altoids. They're, they're curiously strong.

[01:13:15] All right.

[01:13:46] Let's move into our listener feedback experience. First message will be a call from Steve Brown. Hello, Wax Episodic. Karen and Jason, we are here. We're at the end of season two of Severance, uh, Cold Harbor. This is Steve. Oh, wait. It was Audi Dylan who was going to resign, right? Not any Dylan. Wow. The previously on goes straight into the credits. No cold open or anything. So this is any Mark talking to Miss Cobell and Devin.

[01:14:11] While back at Lumen, we pick up where Mr. Egan is, uh, talking to Helly R. Oh, so he's saying Helly E, any Helly has cure. Oh, so any Mark is going to go to the black hallway and then he'll become Audi Arc Mark. And then he can, this is all. Sounds like he's studying for a test. Anyway, so any and Audi Mark are now having a conversation via the tape recorder. And wow.

[01:14:39] Audi Mark is saying all this about reintegration, but he doesn't really know how it's going to work. True. Interesting that Audi Mark is recording his thoughts out in the cold and any Mark is recording his thoughts in the warm cabin. And that means anything. Just thought. The clusters are tempers. I don't understand what that means. Mark was working on building blocks of Gemma's mind.

[01:14:58] The clusters are tempers means the clusters of numbers that the innies in the MDR department have to sort of trace and then bin correspond to these negative emotions or tempers. Or tempers. One's a positive. One's a positive. Yeah, that's true. The other refiners working on what, whose minds were they working on? Oh, okay. The next thing any Mark sees is the severed floor. So there you go. There's a painting of Mark and all the people around him.

[01:15:26] What a strange card, but the founder is impressed with Mark. Maybe it was Annie Dillon that was trying to quit. And so Audi Dillon said, no, I don't know. Oh, that's so sad that Helly has to admit that she's Helena in, I mean, reality. Oh, Vilcek just ran out because he doesn't want to see what Dillon's response is going to be. Indecorous? I don't know what that means. Indecorous. And 100% and the triumphant music starts. Oh, this is just awkward. Vilcek and this animatronic cure.

[01:15:57] Now we have a marching band and Vilcek had a wardrobe change. She stole his radio and flushed it in the toilet and Mark's running off to find the black hallway. Dillon's walking with a purpose. And we have a baby goat going somewhere. Dillon arrives to push a vending machine in front of the door and Mr. Vilcek is kicking at it. As Jenna enters Cold Harbor. Oh, and there's a crib in the room that Jenna's going into. Jenna's going, what? So Mark is trying to get into the room that Drummond and the goat lady is in. The room across the hall. He just punched Mark in the nose.

[01:16:25] Oh, and now Drummond is fighting with the goat lady. I'm just thinking this would be wild for anybody to hear who doesn't watch this show. Right. And now he's fighting with the goat lady, the marching band, and... What? She's tearing him up. Oh, and in the change, Mark pulls the trigger and Mr. Drummond is now bleeding out. Not much for him taking anywhere, Mark. He totally forgot that happened. Meanwhile, back at MDR, the marching band is still playing. And Mr. Vilcek is still trying to get out of the bathroom. Oh, that was clever using Drummond's blood to open the door.

[01:16:53] Oh, and now Mark and Gemma are real. She walks out the door. Oh, my goodness. But now when they go up to the severed floor, they'll go back to Miss Casey and Marques. And now Gemma walks out of the stairwell and she becomes Gemma again. Now Mark has to make a decision. Does he go out the door or does he go back to Hellie? Well, I guess he made his choice. He and Hellie are now running through the halls. And I guess that's the end. Now we wait for season three. They're saying late 2027, I think.

[01:17:22] But nobody knows for sure. Late? I don't know. Maybe mid. Who knows? I hope it's not late. I hope it's mid. Ugh. Okay, next is from Janelle Turk Dennard, who says, I'll be rewatching and listening to this before season three. So glad y'all are recovering in real time next season. Yes, we will. So have you not been watching along at all with us? And you're hearing this like three months from when I'm recording it because you just watched through it. That's what it sounds like. Anyway, either way, glad to have you on board.

[01:17:54] Kate M says, looking forward to listening. I really didn't enjoy the first episode. But like you, someone convinced me to give it another try. And then I was obsessed. I'm rewatching Parks and Recs to wean myself from Adam Scott. Good luck. He's hard to let go. That's funny. All right. Here's a call from Damien. Yay. Yay. Hey, Karen. Hey, Jason. We made it to the finale.

[01:18:22] I hope the podcast is like three hours long this week. You have a lot to talk about. Well, you've already talked about it. Yeah, that episode was 76 minutes long. That was a movie. And that was one of the best movies that I've ever seen. I trust you two have talked in depth about what it all meant. I want to talk about how it felt. Even more than the first time I watched it. This was such a visceral rush.

[01:18:50] I love TV where you realize that you're watching something that you've never seen before. And this was most definitely that. I was tense. I was laughing out loud in delight. I was holding my breath. This is why we watch these things. I just kept thinking of those lucky, lucky peeps who have been watching for the first time alongside the podcast. This is just such a massive reward for the time that they've put into watching and listening.

[01:19:20] As they work their way through the weird slow build of early season one and all the craziness since. It's just so damn rewarding. This episode is everything. I said months ago that severance fully buys into whatever tone it's going for in a particular moment. So when it's a thriller, it's painfully tense and thrilling. When it's an absurd comedy, it's laugh out loud hilarious.

[01:19:48] When it's surreal, it's the most gloriously wacky shit I've ever seen since the Dharma initiative in Lost. And when it's heartbreaking, it absolutely destroys you. I cried. Well, I mean, my eyes slightly leaked a bit. That's as far as I can go. A few times in this episode. See you at the equator is the new meet me in Montauk from Eternal Sunshine. But the main emotion I had was exhilaration.

[01:20:18] Buzzing inside me like an insane caffeine rush. The marching band sequence was an absolute masterpiece. Just an absolute assault on the senses. The scenes with Mark and Drummond were stunningly brutal. And then hilarious as the inevitable happened in the elevator and Mr. Frolic frolicked no more. Good riddance to giant rubbish. My brain felt like Mark pointing that gun yelling,

[01:20:48] Ah! Ah! Ah! Like it was bullets. That might have been my favorite moment of the episode. Mark and Gemma's reunion was incredible. As various combinations of like Innie Mark, Outie Mark, Cold Harbor Gemma, Actual Outie Gemma, And then even Miss Casey. What's taking place? They all interact in different ways. In a master class of acting.

[01:21:17] Not to mention the moment we did actually remember, And we've been waiting to get back to, Mark's increasingly fraught conversation with his Innie self, Where they soon start wrestling with what I said a while back. Like, how can this actually resolve? Mark can't even explain how reintegration would work. It's all untenable. I mean, Mark and Helly's love is doomed. I've been saying this for a while,

[01:21:46] But I just don't know how it can be. But what can you do in the face of impossibility? You can choose to stretch it out a minute longer, And a minute longer, And just reach for love and run. I mean, the last scene is astounding. Like, you're rooting for everybody, But you surely can't begrudge Innie Mark and Helly In taking their chance, And just running into their future, Even if they know they don't really have one.

[01:22:14] I mean, I didn't even mention, Like, self-assured, badass Dylan, And his vending machine heroics. Milchick turning feral, When he jumps on top of that vending machine in slow motion. Like, wrath itself. And last but not least, I hope you noticed the music this week. It was somewhere between, Like a, Like a heartbeat and a distant thunder.

[01:22:42] It just spiked our collective blood pressure, And made the entire episode, Even more than the sum of its exquisite parts. This show has so much heart, And so do you guys. So thank you for giving us this deep dive experience. And I can't wait for an eventual season three. I have no idea where they could possibly go, And I'm absolutely fine with that. But anyway,

[01:23:12] I hope I didn't send Eric to sleep again. Bye! Damien, love you, come on. You were an integral part of this whole thing, And you're enshrined in this podcast, For anyone who listens to it. Heck yeah! Thank you so much. We appreciate you. All right. Wendy says, Severance 8, She's going through a few of these, Number 8, I was struck at how beautiful these scenes were in the beginning.

[01:23:41] I'm so used to the cold, stark office in the dark, depressing winter. The darkness was still there, But there was more light, And it was beautiful. I guess this is the Harmony Cobell episode, right? Yeah. Sweet vitriol. No way was Harmony chums with anyone ever. Things that no one has ever said before in the history of humankind. Quote, You are higher than a bearded dragon. I love that. I know. I like the backstory for Cobell. It was just as weird and twisted as you would think. Well, I'm glad you liked it, Because not everyone did, But I'm glad you did.

[01:24:11] Episode 9, When Heli tells Dylan to save his ring for someone he meets on the inside. Quote, It's just O&D and the goat people. I felt so terrible for Dylan. Not fair. Mark and Cobell together are electric. They spark and crackle. I love it. Episode 10, The conversation between Mark Zinni and Audi was a master class in acting. That is true. We didn't mention that, But it's so, So good. Cobell's Mark, And that only she can do.

[01:24:41] The painting, What does it mean? Did Irving paint it? No. I think, Who painted, I guess we don't really know who paints those. Audi. Maybe so, Yeah. She says, She says, I started to suspect that Heli was her Audi when they were completing Cold Harbor. Oh no, That was Heli. I liked the ending. The acting from everyone was top notch. It seemed a redo of Brienne versus the Hound. And Milchik was like the Terminator. I still have no idea what's happening.

[01:25:12] Hopefully we helped you with that. A little bit. Hopefully. Yeah. A little bit at least. Rachel has a nine minute call instead of a message this week, Which I think is fantastic. I will say we don't usually encourage people to send in calls that are longer than about three minutes or so, But Rachel has more than earned this with her amazing messages. Hell yeah. Here is her message. Hi, Jason and Karen.

[01:25:38] It's Rachel sending a voice message this week because I should read my own essay and not make you do it. I'm going to try to sound as cool as Damien, But it's definitely not going to happen. So just hang in there with me. Okay. Finally, The birthing cabin scene. We have all been waiting in 19 weeks for this piece of absolute brilliance. And it did not disappoint the second time around. Seriously, We could do a whole podcast on this scene alone.

[01:26:05] Last week's podcast was super fun with Eric as guest host. I really enjoyed it. And Karen, I'm super happy that you did not miss this scene because I know you've been so excited for it. Me too. It is. It's so crazy to be dissecting this scene and then remember that one guy played both parts. Adam Scott is so fucking good at this. I can't stand it. He is. Actually, I love it so much. On one side, he had to pull off the subtlety of coming across as accidentally patronizing when speaking to his other personality.

[01:26:36] And try to be upbeat but slowly transition into kind of this frantic desperation. Then on the other side, he had to begin at pure innocence and then become progressively more dubious, which then steadily builds into this full-on temper tantrum anger. I mean, come on. Brilliant is an understatement. I watched it over and over again. He really did have a fit there. Annie Mark is so happy and deeply moved to be hearing from his Audi, but things escalate quickly. And Mark ends up yelling, he's a child. He won't listen.

[01:27:06] Yeah, Mark, he's essentially a child. He has absolutely no life experience, just a super short lifetime of imprisonment and being lied to and taken advantage of. Yep. So I agree with that. But I also think that Audi Mark can be kind of a child himself sometimes. And that is why it's so appropriate that you'd be annoyed at the qualities in yourself. Yes. That you have, you know, that's always the case. It was frustrating that any started to question Audi's honesty, but I really can't blame him.

[01:27:34] Audi Mark really doesn't understand his Annie or what his Annie's life is like, but he seems to think he does. Right off the bat, he calls his Annie's life a nightmare. Kind of offensive. He took for granted that Annie would want to help him without considering what that would mean for him exactly. Audi Mark is inadvertently offensive again when he doesn't know Hallie's actual name. And then he asks Annie to imagine thousands of days of joy, arguments, and passion, prompting Annie to think, uh, yeah,

[01:28:03] that's exactly what I want with Hallie. So, and he starts to question everything. You're asking me to sacrifice everyone I know just to save one person you happen to care about? Yep. It seems like a bit of a switch because Annie Mark was very concerned about saving Ms. Casey too, but he's fully in love with Hallie and that's all he can think about at this point. Plus talking about ending Lumen and thereby the lives of all the Innies probably wasn't the best way to start this conversation.

[01:28:29] But the sad truth is that Innies can't have a full life at Lumen. But Audi Mark is asking Annie to sacrifice himself, to save Gemma's life. And Cobell drives home that he's going to cease to exist eventually anyway. It's all been leading up to this. Annie just didn't know it. And it's just much less time than he assumed or hoped he would have. In order for him to go along with this, he has to accept that his life was never meant to be permanent.

[01:28:55] And I feel icky, but I'm kind of on Audi Mark's side, even if reintegration never takes place. Enter Hallie. Holy shit. What a scene. As he's finishing Cold Harbor and they're having the conversation about what they should do. Oh my God. So incredibly heartbreaking. Mark just desperately wants a life with Hallie. Hallie wants the same, but she understands they have to do this. We really have her to thank for saving Gemma's life.

[01:29:25] She's the one who convinced him. Annie Mark didn't want to give up what he had, but Hallie understands at this point that they were always going to have to give it up. And at least this way they could save an innocent woman's life in the process. They're going to figure it out at some point. Cut to Dylan. Super interesting to see Audi Dylan communicate with Annie Dylan after seeing Mark do the same. Dylan actually manages to be completely genuine, humble, understanding, and even grateful to his innie.

[01:29:54] Not that Mark didn't earnestly try to do the same, but Dylan just did it better. Perhaps because he has been told specific things about his innie by Gretchen, so he actually does know more about him. The way Adam Scott played Audi Mark trying to be understanding and everything, I got the sense it's one of those situations where there is some truth to it, but also he's approaching it like, I need to get my wife out. What's the best way for me to do that?

[01:30:24] So it felt a little manipulative too, especially as the conversation went along. Yes. Yes. But there's a true appreciation from Audi Dylan, even though his innie's actions were deeply fucking indecorous. I really need to also take a moment to acknowledge the way Milchik put the folder on the table and then bolted out of the room at top speed. Yeah, that's the best. Absolutely fucking hilarious. And I listened to the Severance podcast with Ben and Adam,

[01:30:52] and he sort of, I guess, improvised that just in one take, and it was so amazing that that's the take that they used. Oh my gosh, what the fuck? The animatronic statue of Kier. You guys need to just cover that because I literally, I need your take. I have no idea who he was talking to. Some people think that's actually Kier's consciousness. I don't know. That was so fucking weird. Pretty much. Oh, my lens. The marching band. Sorry if you just heard my cat.

[01:31:21] I knew we got another Milchik dance scene, but I had totally forgotten the details. A frigging marching band in MDR. How do you forget that? I had totally forgotten about Helly using her wiles and nimbleness to get Milchik in the bathroom so Mark could escape, too. She's the best. I was holding out hope that Milchik would make better choices once he was locked in that bathroom. He will occasionally, I think. Yes, he resolutely made his decision to defend Lumen.

[01:31:50] Cut to Lorne and Mr. Drummond attempting to complete a ritual goat sacrifice so that this goat spirit can guide Jemma to Kier's door. Holy hell. Drummond says, We commit this animal to Kier and his eternal war against pain. Then when Jemma enters Cold Harbor, she's once again severed and is supposed to take apart the crib, which would evoke all sorts of emotions in Audi Jemma. Dr. Mauer says, The barrier is holding. She feels nothing. It's beautiful.

[01:32:19] So somehow, in summary, Mark is taming Jemma's tempers by sorting numbers that correspond with each temper, the building blocks of her mind. Meanwhile, Jemma is being severed into 25 different consciousnesses, and all of this is supposed to result in the ability for humans to feel no pain or to feel nothing at all. Yeah. But why did they have to sever her 25 times to get to this point? If they told any Mark to take apart a crib, wouldn't he also feel nothing? There's still mystery here, but I'm totally fine with that. I'm not the kind of person who needs a bunch of answers. Yeah.

[01:32:49] The fight scene is freaking amazing. I definitely remembered parts of it, but not all of it. Mr. Drummond turns into a fucking animal, and I 100% did not remember that Mark accidentally kills him. It was like I was watching the scene for the first time. I forgot about it too. I was yelling at the TV, and they have the guy who plays Drummond on the podcast with Ben and Adam, and they break down the entire scene. I thought the conclusion was so perfectly done. As a viewer, I got exactly what I wanted. Almost.

[01:33:19] Mark makes his way through the halls with a hilarious screaming interaction with that sicko fucko nurse. He finds Cold Harbor. He finds his wife. She takes his hand. Jemma and Mark reunite in a joyful, beautiful, satisfying, emotional moment of smiles and hugs and kisses and face-holding. They find their way to the elevator, evading capture, and Annie Mark helps her find the exit and get the fuck out of there, and Jemma is free. Oh, perfect. Until Mark freaking hesitates,

[01:33:48] and there we are, left, with Mark and Helly running through the hallways, Jemma's pounding on the door, screaming at him as the alarm sounds, and all I can think is, where will you go? Seriously, where will they go? What will happen to them? Did Jemma get out? I can't freaking wait for season three. Okay. It's making me really sad that this podcast, this Severance Rewatch is over for now. I'm really going to miss it, you guys. Thank you so, so very much for covering this show

[01:34:17] and for including me. I honestly cannot overstate. It's truly been the best time just reveling in this world with you guys. Last week, Eric was like, I wish we could all hang out. So my pitch for making that happen is a roundtable discussion episode before season three. Yes. You guys, Eric, Damien, and me. Yes. Yes. It's been another frigging year from now. Theories, predictions, hopes, dreams. We'll laugh, we'll cry. Old time, we'll laugh. Yeah. Yes. What do you think? Yes. I'm there.

[01:34:47] Anyway, I love you guys. Love you too. Thank you for what you do. Thank you for this podcast. Until next time, see you at the equator. Later. Oh, Rachel. Thanks, Rachel. So many tins of candy that I will be gently handing to you. She promises. Yeah. I mean, you know, maybe once we actually get a premiere date for season three, I'll be like, yeah,

[01:35:17] whoever wants to come over to San Francisco, we can actually watch it together. That might be fun. Or Boston maybe. That would be really fun. I would absolutely do that. That'd be cool. But absolutely. We should do, yeah, the round table thing. That'd be great. Let's do it. Maybe it'll be a Patreon thing just to get some people to sign up. I think that's a great idea. Thank you, Rachel. Okay. Thanks, Rachel. Now I'm going to talk a little bit. I have to go get my son Bodie at boat camp, so I'll try to make this quick,

[01:35:44] but I'm going to talk about what's next for this podcast. And I had thought about a few different ideas, but I think the first thing we're going to do is go on hiatus for a little bit. I think the next wax episodic show is going to be Lanterns, which premieres on HBO on August 16th. That, hear me out on this guys, by the way, it's an, it's an upcoming superhero series on HBO. The premise says,

[01:36:09] green lanterns are an intergalactic peacekeepers who wear rings that give them extraordinary powers. The series follows experienced lantern, Hal Jordan and new recruit, John Stewart, as they investigate a murder in Rushville, Nebraska, which Jordan believes is an extraterrestrial incident and leads them to darker mysterious, mysteries and reckonings. So I'm in. You want to do that? Oh, you mean, I want to listen to it. You want to listen to it. Okay.

[01:36:35] So I've steered away from superhero stuff in recent years. So just it's gotten, I'm gotten superhero fatigue, honestly. Yeah. But so why this one? Well, there's a few reasons. One is it's on HBO and I think they've just been cranking out high quality stuff for years now. They have. It's also headed up by some creators that I really admire. Damon Lindelof, who did Lost, The Leftovers and Watchmen is one of the three showrunners.

[01:37:05] Everything he does is gold. Right. That I really follow creators. So Tom King is another showrunner. He's one of my favorite comic book writers. He writes in this really emotionally honest way and unpredictable. And then there's a guy who I don't know, Chris Mundy, but he was part of Ozark and True Detective, both of which were pretty great. So those three are the like brain trust in charge of the show. Yes. It stars Kyle Chandler, who I like and Nathan Fillion. Is it?

[01:37:35] Oh, oh. It's, it's going to be great. Yeah. Damon Lindelof, come on. So Karen, think about if you want to join me for that, you get a break because it's in August, but if you don't, it's totally okay. I have some other people in mind that I'm going to ask. I'll be thinking about it. Okay. Think about it.

[01:38:05] Then I thought about doing, since that doesn't come out until August, I thought about doing something else in the meantime. I thought, oh, should we like do episode by episode widow's Bay or, or, well, maybe we'll do that. But I also, I mean, we said we do a catch up episode, but honestly I would like to do episode by episode before season three comes out at some point. But I don't know if now is the right time since people are sort of just coming off of it, you know, I don't know.

[01:38:33] But also silo season three. Do you watch silo? I do watch silo. Yeah. I kind of got a little burned out on it. Yeah. After, was it season two? Those are the only, it's only been two seasons. Only two seasons. Yeah. I know that season three is coming out soon. There's going to be four seasons and they had a big revelation at the end of season two that might open things up a little bit. But anyway, see, I thought about doing that because it starts July 3rd and it's a, it's very much a fit for this podcast.

[01:39:02] It's dystopian noir show where everyone lives in this underground silo. They have a society down there, but they don't know why they're down there. Why they're not on the surface. It's kind of weird. It's kind of like fallout a little bit, but, um, except more dour, but, um, Veronica and Amelie and I have actually covered the first two seasons of that over on walking dead cast. We did it, uh, half a season at a time. So it was only two episodes per season covering multiple, you know, episodes at a time.

[01:39:31] So we were, we'll probably do that again for season three. And so instead, so I might post those on this podcast or I might just keep doing it on walking dead cast. But if I do, I'll, I'll even, you know, I'll put out a little notice here telling you guys where to find it. But, you know, I actually think a hiatus will be good because there's some things that I've been wanting to take care of that I've had to put off. Cause I've just had so many podcasts to do.

[01:39:59] One of those things is splitting out all the wax episodic shows into their own separate podcasts. We will still have the wax episodic feed with everything together. So if you like that and you want to stick with it, that's fantastic. But this show was kind of an experiment covering a bunch of shows in one feed and picking just the right cohost for each one. And I love it. I've had a blast doing it. I plan to keep going, like I just said,

[01:40:27] but the downloads are less than they usually are when I split it out. I think when you have a dedicated podcast for a show, people are more likely to choose that one. I think that's true. And not think that a show where we cover a podcast where we cover multiple shows are as in depth. Fuck you. We are as in depth, but they just don't know. Yes. So I'm thinking a good name for the severance one will be waffle party. I love waffle party. Yes. I think waffle party would be a great name.

[01:40:57] Okay. We'll just have one big waffle party. Our own version of it. But anyways, so that's one thing that I want to do. There's also a couple other sort of maintenance things that I haven't had time to get to. So I'm going to take this time in between before we do lanterns to do that. I'm also doing the walking dead rewatch always, although dead cities coming out. So I'll get a break from that too. Maybe I need to go on vacation. Anyways, please keep us in your feed.

[01:41:27] We will be back after lanterns. The plan is to keep covering future seasons of shows. We've already done alien earth with Randy and Kara fallout with Kara and Cassie. Welcome to dairy with me and Sean pluribus with Karen and severance here with me and Karen. And we'll probably pick up widow's Bay at some points. And just last little thing at the end.

[01:41:53] One great way that you can keep up with everything I'm doing and also help support it is through Patreon at patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi. That is essential to keep this stuff going. I wouldn't be doing this podcast wouldn't exist without it. I couldn't keep doing it without listener support. I thank everybody who's doing it so much. And so if you decide to do that, you get a single Patreon podcast feed that you can plug into your podcast player. And it has every episode of every podcast that I host ad free,

[01:42:23] including all these wax episodic walking dead cast white Lotus, yellow jackets, everything else. So it's a great way to keep up with what I'm doing. It also has occasional Patreon exclusive stuff like Colin shows and other podcasts. We recently did a call in show where everybody talked about their travel, cool travel experiences. I'm doing one next week with Randy and Damien, where we talk about five songs that we've really liked over the last few years.

[01:42:53] And we play a little bit to the song and talk about them, you know? Yeah. Nice. We've done that before. It's super, super fun. Patreon is really fun. And occasionally like on a yearly basis, there'll be meetups too. There's a big group meeting in Montreal later this year. So it's just really fun. And I just thank everyone who supports. And if you want to join in, that's at patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi. Yay.

[01:43:32] All right. That is our show. Thanks so much for listening, everyone. Thanks everyone. Thanks. Thanks for following along with severance. And, uh, Karen, I'm so glad that you wanted to do it. It's been really, really fun. Thank you. It has, it has, it has. And I think, uh, another thing that you might, um, also mention is that we're going to be, as soon as Pluribus comes back, we'll be doing Pluribus too. Did you mention that? I did mention that. Yeah. It just, it was a fire hose of information. I know.

[01:44:01] It was a lot. Yeah. No, Pluribus is fucking great. And, um, it's not going to be back for a while though, but yes, we'll be on it as soon as it comes back. Yep. And, uh, also another way to keep in contact is to join, either our Facebook group or our discord or both. They're both free and links for all that is in the show notes. All of that. Patreon, Facebook, and discord links. Show notes, people. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening.

[01:44:31] And now ladies and gentlemen, may I introduce choreography and the moment.

[01:44:36] From artificial intelligence to the gig economy,

[01:45:34] to global volatility, the economy is changing at a dizzying pace. Enter the managing the future of work podcast, the chart topping and critically acclaimed podcast from Harvard business school, hosted by me, Bill Kerr. And by managing the future of work project, co-chair Joe Fuller, this show explores technology trends, demographic changes, the rise, the care economy, and many other forces transforming the landscape of work.

[01:46:02] We'll highlight the insights of business leaders, technologists, and experts like business round tables, Kristen Silberg on corporate workforce strategy, and Khan Academy founder, Sal Khan on AI education and the future of work. With more than two and a half million downloads and close to 300 episodes, there is something for everyone. Follow HBS managing the future of work on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now.

[01:46:36] Have you ever wondered why Reese Witherspoon founded Hello Sunshine? Or where Kevin O'Leary got his start? Or even how Alex Earle became the most accessible founder to someone who may not even consider this space? Enter the founder mindset, the new podcast from Harvard Business School Foundry, hosted by me, Reza Sakshu. As a leading educator in entrepreneurship, I've built multiple high profile companies, and mentored thousands of students and founders,

[01:47:03] through the realities of starting and scaling ventures. And with the founder mindset, I'm sharing those lessons with you, by sitting down with world-class entrepreneurs, including Witherspoon, O'Leary, and Earl, plus Tim Ferriss, and many more, to break down exactly how they commit, decide, and build for impact. These aren't surface level interviews. Each episode, I challenge my guests to revisit their toughest moments, their boldest decisions, and the mindset that carried them through.

[01:47:32] Follow the founder mindset wherever you get your podcasts. you're not paying attention to the founders,