Severance S2E3 "Who Is Alive?"

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[00:00:30] Hm? Ah! Oh. Look, uh, it's really nice to meet you, but am I in trouble?

[00:00:44] Oh, no, no, you're not, you're not in trouble. Um, we have three kids. And you, um, no, he, or my husband has had trouble keeping other jobs. He dumb? No. He a dick?

[00:01:14] No. What is wrong with him? Oh, nothing's wrong with him. He just never quite found his thing. So he's actually kind of a fuck-up?

[00:01:41] Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast. I am Jason. And I'm Kara. And this is Mammalians Nurturable. I feel nurtured. This is Wax Episodic. And this episode, we're covering Severance Season 2, Episode 3. Who is alive? Raise your hand. Burn it into your retinas. Me, me. Me, me. Okay, let me read the summary.

[00:02:08] Mark and Hellie go to hand out missing persons posters of Miss Casey across the severed floor. The two stumble upon the Mammalians Nurturable Department, led by a woman named Lauren. Though initially hostile, the Mammalians, are they Mammalians? I guess so. They are, right? Yeah. Promise not to hinder MDR's search for Miss Casey. Which is sort of not much progress on that front.

[00:02:33] But anyway, Irving takes a missing poster to O&D where he runs into Felicia, who identifies his sketch of the dark hallway from his Audi's paintings as the exports hall. Dylan is granted a visitation with his Audi's wife, Gretchen. Natalie approaches Rickon to discuss adapting the UUR for Innies. Cobell agrees to rejoin Lumen on the condition that she's rehired as floor manager.

[00:02:57] Helena instead suggests an impromptu meeting with the board, prompting a spooked Cobell to drive off. Mark and Devin attempt to burn an afterimage into his retinas to communicate with his zinni. Ragabi interrupts Mark, telling him his strategy will not work and that reintegration is the only way to send messages in and out of Lumen. Mark agrees to the procedure after Ragabi confirms his wife is alive. As they begin conducting the process in Mark's basement, Mark flashes between present and his orientation on the severed floor.

[00:03:29] So much happened. I know. So much happened. Reading that, I'm like, oh my God. Big, big, big plot things moving forward in this episode. I mean, there's a lot that happened. I watched it a couple times and was like, wow, wait, this happened? Oh yeah, I guess this did happen. Yeah. Because it feels slow, but then you read it all out and it's like, oh, it is a lot. It's just a lot of little things, I guess. A lot of little things.

[00:03:59] Although I was surprised, not to jump into it too much, but Mark spent the whole episode trying to do this retina burning thing. And then in the last five minutes, Ragabi shows up, no, that's not going to work. Let's reintegrate you. And then they do it. It's like, oh, that happened fast. Well, because she confirmed that Gemma is there. Yeah, that's right. Which, I mean, quite frankly, if she had just led with that, this would have probably gone a lot easier.

[00:04:29] I mean, she could have- She should have said that first. Yes, at the very beginning. Hey, did you know that they've got your wife, that she's not actually dead? You know why she didn't? No. Dramatic license. Yes. So you liked it? I did. I loved it. I loved it. I didn't find it slow. I found it very entertaining because it bounced around all these different characters. So, yeah, I really, really loved it. I did too. I loved it.

[00:04:56] I thought, I loved it way more for some reason on second watch. On first watch, I did think it was kind of slow. But then on second watch, when I really stopped to notice and appreciate all the little things, I realized, oh, I'm appreciating a lot of things. Because there was a lot going on. There was a lot. But I think the show is like, you know, we're three episodes in and they're kind of still like,

[00:05:25] oh, they're still acting on what they learned at the end of last season. And I think in some sense it is slow. But it's a trade-off, I think, for taking the time to do the small moments well. And I'd rather it do that than not. Like, I think the small moments in this show, I mean, this show has so much to appreciate. But the small moments is one of the things that I appreciate more.

[00:05:53] What I mean by that is just these fun interactions between people. A lot of times with no dialogue, there's a couple of great ones in this episode that I love the most. I really enjoy this series. I don't need a lot of, I enjoy the ride. I don't need a lot of necessarily a lot of giant things to happen. No, me neither. In this one, a lot of things did happen.

[00:06:19] But I don't need to find all the answers all at one time. I'm enjoying the ride. I'm enjoying the process of getting there. Yeah, I mean, I'm always like, there will be episodes that are like, they call it a side quest now. Like, here's not here in Walking Dead. And people get impatient because they want to get back to the main story. Right.

[00:06:45] And I'm just like, oh, we're watching all of this to be entertained and delighted. And if it's entertaining me and delighting me, I don't care if it's part of the main story or what. Yeah, exactly. Exactly, exactly, exactly. If there's good acting or it's funny or cool visuals or whatever. All right, so let's get into the actual episode. What do you want to talk about first? Let's talk about the thing that gave me the most delight the entire episode, which was mammalians nurturable.

[00:07:17] Gwendolyn Christie is an absolute delight. And I love how they just said, you know, use your own voice, use your own accent. And she is just as weird as can be. And it was so delightful. So love seeing her. I love that she says, are you here to kill me? Which they have a reputation.

[00:07:43] I mean, they did have to show their bellies before they left to confirm that they didn't have a pouch. Although according to one dude, it proves nothing. Yeah, if people don't remember, that's because Bert, well, Bert told Irving that there's a rumor that the MDR have pouches and then their larval offspring might spring out and attack you. Well, eventually the larvae grow and devour them and replace them.

[00:08:14] That too. Right, right. Because at first I was like, what are we going to learn what that's about at some point? And like, no, we already learned what that was about. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's just a bizarre rumor to keep them apart. Hilarious. I love that continuity. I also love her language, her weird archaic language.

[00:08:37] When she says, you know, he shows her the picture of Gemma or Miss Casey and says that she used to be part of wellness. And she replies, wellness, we don't abide such fripperies here. It's such a great thing to say. And that she used to do sessions in the husbandry tanks, whatever that means. Well, what is animal husbandry? Doesn't it just mean taking care of animals? I'm not sure. Sure.

[00:09:07] But what's a husbandry tank? I don't know. I have to know what husbandry means more specifically before I can deduce what a husbandry tank is. You're a husband. Not that kind of a husband, I think. You know more than I do. Let me look that up really quick. Husbandry definition. It says the care, cultivation and breeding of crops and animals. So maybe it's a breeding tank.

[00:09:37] I don't know. Sure. I don't do any of that, by the way. Well, I guess I do. I have cats. You bred. You have two children. Your larval offspring. So she admits that she knows Kelly. After Mark gave a rousing speech of, wouldn't you chase after your goats if they ran away? Right. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:10:05] I love that she said she has a gentle way about her and that one of the guys, one of the goat guys said that she said, my Audi excels at stargazing. And it was very meaningful. Yeah. I love that. That was especially great because the buildup was, it felt like some weird, disheveled, disgruntled people out of some horror movie. Yeah.

[00:10:30] Where you go into the country and meet a cult full of goat horn wearing pitchfork wielding weirdos. Right. Sure. And then all of a sudden he has this tender moment. She really meant a lot to me. It was like a nice shift, you know? My Audi excels at stargazing. That's like, yeah. Now that you say it like that, it's not necessarily that impressive to excel at stargazing. No. It is not that impressive. I didn't realize that.

[00:11:02] You just kind of look up at night. Maybe he could identify constellations. But it really does sort of underline the larger question, which is why goats? What is the specific meaning of goats? What the hell with the goats? And we don't know.

[00:11:24] Yeah, because before, okay, so Mark, all the innies seemed like they were, you know, united, a united front the last we saw them at the end of episode one. And so Mark is like, all right, here's our mission. We're going to find Miss Casey. But like any episode or like tends to be the pattern of the show, they all have their own sort of things that they want to do. Dylan wants to meet his wife. Irving wants to go to O&D.

[00:11:54] Helly seems to be focused on crushing on Mark. But anyways, he says, let's go. Irving, you go to O&D. Dylan, can you go to the break room? Because maybe some other employees might be there. And Dylan doesn't do that. And then he says, Helly, you and I can go to find Goatman. And I was like, why the hell does he think he's going to find Miss Casey? What does Goatman have to do with anything?

[00:12:21] But it is, I think, just because those are all the people that they've met aside from themselves. That's why I was trying to figure out why go to the goat person. Because they're just going to anyone else. Because, I mean, this is another thing that's related to this scene. The reason why they're so hostile at first is because Lumen has fostered this fear of others. So that the departments won't talk to each other because there's power in unity.

[00:12:45] And so that's why Lorne, Gwendolyn Christie's character is like, are you here to kill me? And they seem so hostile at first. But Mark overcomes that pretty quickly. So anyway, why was I? Oh yeah, I was just trying to figure out why go to the goat person. But it's just to talk to anybody, I guess. Right, right, exactly, exactly. And last we saw the goat area, it was just one man bottle feeding a baby goat. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:13:14] And maybe now the goats are a little older? And he said, it's not time yet, don't take my goat or something like that. Yeah, they're not ready. That's why I was thinking, because you were asking why. Yeah. So they're older maybe, so maybe they'll be ready soon. But yeah, we have no clue why there's goats, but it doesn't seem like, there's a good chance it's not good. No, no. And the whole thing is really, really strange.

[00:13:39] Plus, there were about like, what, a dozen goat people? That's a lot of goat people for the number of goats. Yeah, they have a nice, healthy department size there. A good person to goat ratio. And they really did seem like they'd been through something, you know? They seemed disheveled and even kind of dirty. Dirty, mm-hmm.

[00:14:06] And it makes me wonder if they're severed, do they like shower before they go home? Or do they just go home dirty and wonder why they're all dirty after work every day? What the hell? And why do I smell like poop? What is going on here? Right. What is happening? Yeah. It is a giant mystery. Because I like they crawled through that little goat tunnel with, it was like a looming hall, but smaller with grass and poop inside. Yep. Yep.

[00:14:33] Famously, goats, goats are delightful. They're like one of my favorite animals. And famously, goats are impossible to house break. If anyone out there has house broken a goat, let me know. I've never heard that it can be done. Goats are like impossible. They'll just poop anyway. Yeah. I wouldn't suspect that anymore that I think you could keep a pet cow in your house or something. Yeah. Yeah. I used to live on a dairy.

[00:15:03] Did you really? Saw a lot of cow pies in my time. God, I'm so jealous. I think I stepped in one once. Life goals. It was an accident. Life goals. Step in a cow pie? No. Live on a dairy. Oh, got it. Got it. Yeah. I like the whole sequence with Mark and any Mark and Hellie going off to investigate.

[00:15:26] And as they were walking over there, she was acting a little bit weird about helping him find Miss Casey because you get the sense that she's trying to be helpful, but she's jealous. And he senses it. Are you sure you're okay with this? And then they have that moment where she's smiling like she wants to be kissed. Yep. And then he, I think, seems to feed into the energy. So he's like moving towards her as if he's going to kiss her.

[00:15:54] And then this is my read on anyway, because there's no dialogue. And then she gives him the eyes that say, absolutely. Yes. Go for it. And then he shakes his head and walks off. And then for just a split second, she's like, frustrated. All that happened in this big pregnant world, wordless moment where they're navigating this, in my view, wonderfully ambiguous space. It was so funny. And, um, it was my fit, this and the scene with Dylan and his Audi's wife were my favorite moments

[00:16:24] of the episode, just because I love, I wonder, like, you know, usually when you make a show, you probably write a script and you're like, okay, here's what everyone's going to say. But there's no script for this. What do you write? Like, I want to be in the room and hear how they talk through how this is going to go. Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting. It seems so real, you know, capture a real moment like that where you're sort of like, how is this moment going to go between us?

[00:16:52] It could go this way or that way, or no, it's not going to happen. Like, it's really interesting to me. So, uh, let's see, where was I? Oh, I wanted to mention that Gwendolyn Christie gave me a kiss on the cheek one time. I can't let that go unmentioned. I am so jealous. Whenever her name comes up. I'm so jealous. She's, of course, Brienne of Tarth on Game of Thrones. And I used to do Q and A at panels at conventions.

[00:17:20] And one time I did one with her and it was me and Aaron of, uh, Bald Move. And it was a rousing panel. Just there, there was some, I think she was teasing me about my knowledge of Game of Thrones. And then I actually came through and knew what she was talking about. And then, uh, but it was just like a rousing kind of feminist speech that she gave about her character and the whole audience loved it. And then at the end she came over and kissed me on the cheek and I was just like in heaven.

[00:17:48] Oh, is she just as tall as she? Yes. As she appears? Taller than me. Oh, is she? I think so. Yeah. She, she's really cool. Super cool. I think she's very arresting looking. Mm-hmm. Beautiful in a really interesting way. Yeah. She's awesome. Okay. All right. My turn? Yes. I want to talk about, uh, this item. Milchik experiences karma, I call it. Ha ha ha ha ha.

[00:18:18] Ha ha ha. Poor, poor Milchik in this. Poor Milchik. Oh. I feel bad for him in this episode. So, Natalie and the board are waiting in Milchik's office. The board austerely wants Milchik to feel connected to Lumens' history. To that end, Natalie presents him with inclusively re-canonicalized paintings intended to help him see himself in Kier, their founder. And so, it's all the Kier cycle paintings except featuring black versions of the people. Oh, it's the worst.

[00:18:46] And he's taken aback, not in a good way. He's not smiling. He's trying to, like, he's like, I'm grateful. It's meaningful to see myself. And he can't even finish it, reflect it in. And yes, it's insultingly pandering and offensive. And you can't help but feel sorry for him. I did too, a little bit. But the delightful thing about the scene for me is it's the exact same thing Milchik constantly does to other people. Trying to figure out something particular to them that he thinks they'll respond to.

[00:19:16] Something usually superficial like a melon bar or whatever. And then use it to control them and keep them working. And so, that's what she's doing. Oh, I think. Or the board or whoever. I think he's gonna, like, feel more included and then he'll do a better job. And I don't necessarily think he's so taken aback just because he thinks it's racist. Maybe. Maybe. But I think it's more like, hey, I'm supposed to be the one doing this to other people, not having it done to me.

[00:19:46] Where you're treating me like you're trying to manipulate me and I don't like it. You know, that kind of a thing. I don't know for sure. Maybe it's both. The whole thing. It is super offensive. Yeah. The whole thing was so crunchy. And so, I remember thinking, oh, this is just so uncomfortable. Oh, it's terrible. Jesus. Oh, oh my. And then he starts to reply and Natalie says, oh, the board's already left.

[00:20:16] So. Yeah. And then she also tells him that she received the same gift and found it extremely moving. I have a hard time believing that. There's a pause after she says that. And it's another moment of sort of navigating the empty space between the two of them. Yes. And she just has that blank smile on her face. Yes.

[00:20:39] And I wondered if he was like, you know, hey, maybe we should drop the bullshit corporate facade for a minute and be real people and acknowledge how fucked up this whole thing is. Yes. Maybe. And she doesn't drop the facade. She just goes, congratulations. And I think she's just so deep in, so invested, wants to hold on to whatever power she has or whatever that she's not going to be a real person with him. And I love her portrayal.

[00:21:05] I don't know the actress's name, but she's got these big expressive eyes and these like micro movements that suggest she's actually feeling something. But she's a manipulator just like him. And she's got these like passive aggressive dominating little tactics, you know, of cutting people off and stuff. So it's a facade, but it's a really interesting one. Yeah. Because it's not just like sterile. It's like you feel there is some emotion going on there. It's really interesting. She is fascinating.

[00:21:35] The way that she smiles and stands a little too close and then smiles and maintains like crazy eye contact and the crazy smile. And then she doesn't say anything. She says, I've got the board on. And then, of course, Milchik doesn't know what to say. He says, hi, and the board greets you. And then he's like, hey, great. Okay. Okay.

[00:22:04] You know, it's that uncomfortable. You started the conversation, but now I'm the one who has to say something. That's always the way it is with them too. And you're in my space at my desk and it's the fucking board and that's never good. Yeah. Oh, it's so great. So then he puts the paintings in the closet, which just shows if you have any doubt how he feels about it. He's not going to hang him up. And I'm just like, Milchick is this loyal employee doing Lumen's dirty work.

[00:22:34] And he doesn't like being pandered to and manipulated by Lumen the same way he panders to and manipulates others in Lumen's name. And so I don't remember what happens with him. I think I remember him not being so great in some scenes going forward. But I wonder if this is the start of some humanization of his character where maybe he'll be like, oh, you know what? That didn't feel good. Maybe I should stop doing that to other people. But I wouldn't count on it.

[00:23:05] Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. That'd be cool. This might be the start of him coming around. And in which case I say, you know, Seth Milchick, welcome to the resistance. Yeah. I would say that if he does. But he's got to actually do it first. Yeah, exactly. Because he's a piece of shit, as I've been saying. Yeah. He's definitely chief manipulator at this point. No one deserves what he got this episode.

[00:23:34] But there are also people who don't deserve what he's dished out. So I'll say that. Okay. Lumen. What's next? Okay. Let's talk about Dylan. Dylan, yes. Let's talk about Dylan in this episode. I mean, it is so – he definitely doesn't want – I mean, he – Milchick, speaking of Milchick being a chief manipulator,

[00:24:00] Milchick knows – has his number and knows that the thing he wants most is he wants to know his family. And so Milchick gets him the thing that he really wants, which is – aside from seeing his kids. 18 minutes with his wife. Weirdly 18 minutes. That's so indicative. It's like, here, have a little taste, but we're in control. It's only going to be a small amount. You got to keep working if you want any more. You know, that kind of thing. Why 18 minutes? So weird.

[00:24:29] It's so weird. And I loved Merrick Weaver. Merit. Merit Weaver. She's wonderful. She has a wonderful voice and a wonderful – just everything about her is lovely. It so happens that in The Walking Dead rewatch that Lucy and I have been doing for the last two years, we're now right in Denise's era. Oh!

[00:24:56] Where Merit Weaver played – if you don't know – a character in The Walking Dead called Denise. She's like a doctor in the little town Alexandria. Yes. Yes. We're right where she's just like stitching up Carl's eye, you know, after he got shot in the eye. Yeah. She's great on that show too. She is great. She has a lovely voice. She's very – she's arresting and fun to hang out with. So I could see why immediately Dylan is like, you're my wife. You're my wife. This is so cool.

[00:25:26] Yeah. It's so lovely. But it's also sad that he figures out – she doesn't out and out say it, but he figures out that he's kind of a fuck up. He's out he is. Yeah. Well, when he asks, oh, so he's kind of a fuck up, she doesn't say no. No. No. Although she does say diplomatically, he just hasn't found his thing. Yeah. And – but he's not – he is kind of – and then later we see him on the outside and he hasn't made the cookies for the kids class.

[00:25:56] Right. And she's like, it's a tube. You just slice them and put them in the oven. Yeah. As she's like trying to get ready to go off to work. Right. And clearly like works the night shift. So, dude. But it's so sweet how any Dylan is like, I'll be good. I'll make you proud. And then she says, I'm always proud of you, Dylan. So sweet. I love it. Yeah.

[00:26:22] It's going to be interesting to see then how much that's going to impact Dylan going forward because it's the one thing he wants and he's gotten a little taste of it. Yeah. Like he was totally fine until he found out he had a son. He was fine fantasizing that he was some action hero or whatever he was saying, right? Yeah. He's out.

[00:26:44] And then it wasn't until he had that overtime contingency moment where he actually saw his son that he started changing and caring about his family and everything. And so giving him another little taste is just going to make him want more, you would think. You'd think. You'd think. I love that he saw the picture of the kids in the old West pose. And he's like, so we live on a cattle ranch. It's so funny.

[00:27:13] Do you have a picture like that where you're in Western garb with the kids? I'm trying to think. We do. I don't know. My family does. No, I don't think we have that. You never went to it like a photo booth. Do you have any others like. I have pictures of them. Yeah. I mean, yes. Where you're all dressed up in costume.

[00:27:42] Picturing this picture I took of them when we were. It was during COVID, but we were out at some. There was a big giant pot and they were inside the pot and I captured it desperate times or something like that. Not exactly what you're asking about. Not exactly, but I'm really, really happy to hear that. That's great. So I love this sequence.

[00:28:11] I like that. He's like a little kid. He's delighted. Yeah. He still comes off like a teenage boy like he always does. Nice sack. Thank you. Sorry. And then she said, Seth warned me this might be weird. Who's Seth? And then Miss Wang over the intercom. Please refrain from sharing information that may be privileged or sensitive. Which makes you think, okay, Miss Wang is listening in.

[00:28:36] That's just another thing that suggests they're probably listening to everything. Or you never know when they're listening. Yeah. I guess you could say it that way. But also, okay, Seth is Milchick and she wouldn't allow, she doesn't want him to know that Seth is Milchick. But it was interesting that she, Gretchen, the Audi's, Dylan's wife, was allowed to talk about the kids, their names, pictures. Maybe they briefed her ahead of time. You can talk about his life, the Audi's life, I guess. Right.

[00:29:06] I don't know why, but then the most interesting thing to me about this scene is that this show is on some level about how, even if we always have the same essence, at least this is what I think it's about, that we can be different in different contexts. And as you've said, like, I think what you said last week about baggage is really relevant here. Yeah.

[00:29:34] Because Dylan, any Dylan doesn't have Audi Dylan's baggage. Right. And he doesn't have any memory of her. And so he's acting as if they just met and he's delighted to meet her. Meanwhile, Audi Dylan is kind of checked out. And, you know, any married couple of kids knows that there are times when your life feels more about navigating the logistics of raising kids than it does about having a fulfilling relationship, you know?

[00:30:01] And so that's what she's got outside. But here inside, it's more like the honeymoon phase when they first met, which is why I also thought it was interesting that he's still trying to relate to her respectfully as, okay, I'm this outside person. I'm going to try to do you guys proud, but she quickly fell into, you're my husband when we first met and we fell in love. And she's hugging him and saying, I love you.

[00:30:25] And he, for any Dylan, that's such a big deal because aside from the occasional waffle party, he doesn't have much contact with people, you know? So this is a big deal for him to like be told someone loves him and to show him physical affection. That would just be totally like, it's like when you're a teenager and you have your first kiss, you know? Oh, I can't imagine. It's like all your hormones going or whatever your emotions. So I don't know.

[00:30:53] It's just a really fun and interesting and just kind of, I don't know, sad in a way. Like it shows that things from relationships can be lost and that you might be desperate to recapture the thing before. I don't know. It was just really fun and interesting too, though. And then when they were about to say goodbye, they had another moment like that where you're not sure how to navigate it. And there's not much dialogue where right after she said, I love you.

[00:31:21] And he looks like he's trying to think of something to say. And she's like, okay, all right. Okay, bye. Yeah. Yeah. Have it. Oh, sorry. Have it. A few of those. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It would be weird. And it would also be delightful. I was just thinking, what would it be like if David met me as his innie and was delighted to meet me? How cool would that be?

[00:31:50] But also weird because we didn't have any history. Yeah. That would be weird. Or I think it could be dangerous because I think I brought this up on this podcast before, but in the movie Groundhog Day where who stars in that? Bill Murray. Bill Murray's character keeps experiencing the same day over and he's trying to get Annie McDowell to fall in love with him. Right. And they happen to have one day where they just have a great time.

[00:32:16] They're having a snowball fight and they fall into each other's arms and it's like a romantic comedy meet cute thing. And then he tries to recreate that exact thing the next day and it won't happen. And I'd be concerned that if I saw Annie Jenny that I'd be like, all these things that we have in common look great. She'd be like, get away from me, dude. And she just smacked you. But we still make each other laugh now. Wow.

[00:32:45] So that's, I think that's always a good thing, you know, because we're totally just overwhelmed with life right now with two kids and she works so many hours and there's so many logistics and bills and places to drive the kids and laundry and all this stuff. But we still enjoy just shooting the shit and making each other laugh and, you know, traveling and things like that. So try to hold on to some of that spark. Your Audis are still in a good place.

[00:33:15] Yeah, I think so. You don't need to be jealous of your Annie. She doesn't think I'm a total fuck up. But thinking about the severance procedure in terms of getting rid of my baggage, you really got me thinking about it in a new way. And that is the one thing that actually makes me curious what it would be like. But the problem is that I wouldn't be the one experiencing that. It would be some other version of myself.

[00:33:40] So I would have to just be content with like watching him on camera and seeing how he might act differently than me. That would be kind of interesting. He might not be as happy. He might not be as funny. Like all the things that have happened to you that you've had to sort of overcome and battle against. And all the things, the happy things that you've received. That all makes you you.

[00:34:09] And maybe you wouldn't be as cool and funny. And you would definitely not be as interesting. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe you're right. I mean, just this is just a show that people wrote. So it's not real. But would you rather have lunch with any Mark or Audi Mark? Come on. You know, it's any Mark. No. No, really? Any Mark wouldn't have much to say. Yeah. But he's so cute and funny. Yeah.

[00:34:38] He's definitely lighter than poor Audi. Yeah. Weepy Audi Mark. He doesn't have as much substance. No. And if I had to choose between any and Audi Irving, I would choose Audi Irving. You would? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And a heartbeat. Yeah. I would choose any Dylan definitely. So far from what we know to just hang out with and have lunch because he'd be funny as hell. Yeah. He would be funny as hell. Yeah. You're right. You're right. And I would definitely choose any Hellie. Oh, yeah. Her Audi is the worst. You're right.

[00:35:08] You're right. But it depends. No, I'm not trying to make a point. But I'm just looking at each pair. Anyways, what else? Do you have any other points? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about really quickly. Let's talk about Irving and his visit to optics and design and just how lovely it was. He gets to commiserate with Felicia and she sees him and she comes up and her hugging him because she misses Bert too.

[00:35:38] That's what it's about, right? They don't even need to say it. They don't even need to say it. We miss Bert. We miss Bert. He says, you know, oh, I'm sorry for popping in after all this time. That was interesting because he thinks five months have passed. And if she had really paid attention, she may be like, what do you mean? It was just last week that we were here. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. I love, though, that the two of them are laughing.

[00:36:04] I think the story that she was telling him about Bert saying, no one is going to come here and tell me how to print out a snow globe. And I was like, what? It's so great. And the sketches of Bert in his little sketchbook. And so now he actually knows more from this little visit with Felicia.

[00:36:26] He found out more, I think, than Mark and Helly did, which is she says, how do you know about the exports hall? And he says, can you tell me where it's at? And so maybe he's going to find out what's the exports hall and where is it at? Yeah. Although we don't know if that's related to Miss Casey or not, but it's another mystery. It's another mystery. And it's exports hall.

[00:36:55] So she said that they would, when they had to send things out, I think. Yeah. Send a lot of shipments there. Yeah. It sounds like a mail room. But yeah, it's just like that was one where I was a little frustrated. Like with Mark going to the goat place and they're like, well, we don't know anything about Miss Casey, but we won't try to stop you. So not much progress there. Here, a little bit of progress. Like, oh, she knows, Felicia knows the name and location of this drawing.

[00:37:24] So that sets us up for finally actually maybe going there. Yeah. You know, but they didn't go there. Well, we'll see you next time. Yeah. We'll see you next time. Okay. I think I want to talk about. Cobel. Okay. Who we see sleeping in her car here. A white rabbit, by the way. Did you notice that? A white rabbit. No.

[00:37:51] But I liked that she's out in the snow covered roads that are still, they still have the cool design of the show. Somehow the way the roadways were laid out. Yeah. Framed. Yeah. Um, last we saw her, she, she first told Helena, she'd think about her proposal to come back and lead this bullshit severance advisory council. And then she screamed at Mark and almost ran out over him and drove off. Correct.

[00:38:19] And I think she's sleeping in her car because she's headed to Salt Neck, which I would presume is maybe her home. Like to go lick her wounds and figure out what her next phase of life is or something like that. Um, cause you see the sign Salt Neck 238, but then she turns around and goes back. So I think she's sleeping in her car because it's a long way and she's just doing that. She's tough. So she's doing that instead of getting a hotel room, which Jenny used to do. She used to just sleep in her car. It's impressive.

[00:38:48] I, I don't know that I could do that. It's really, really impressive. Yeah. So anyway, um, she turns around. No, hell no. I'm not going to accept this. Goes back, approaches Helena in the parking lot, demands to be reinstated as the severance floor manager. Helena says, I hear hubris, arrogance. Kier teaches us they only cause pain. And I'm like, Kier, the guy who has like a giant statue of his head and a museum. That guy? Yeah.

[00:39:18] He's critical as any cult leader. And then she says, Cobell says, everything I accomplished, I earned through dedication and industry. Not because I was born into it, which is a dig against Helena, right? Yeah. Nepo baby. But I wonder if Cobell was born into this cult. But even if she was, I guess she probably had to work her way up the ladder. Oh yeah. To get where she was. And then Helena says, no, but we should reset things. Why don't we come speak to the board together?

[00:39:44] And Cobell starts to follow, but then gets spooked and gets her corn drives off. What do you think they were going to do to her? It seemed like Cobell realized something. I think she looked at that security guy. The security guy was different than the other security guy from last week. Oh yeah. This is the one, the serious security guy. This guy looked like he wanted to murder Ms. Cobell. Yeah.

[00:40:10] And Ms. Cobell got spooked and she was like, when she says, let's do a reset. That might be like a wipe or something. Right. Like a hard reset. Call, click. Right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So she's, I thought, I loved what Helena told her too.

[00:40:38] I think you've overestimated your contributions and underestimated your blessings. Yeah. She's always got her way of framing things. I think it's interesting too, that she always has a guard with her. She always does. Yep. She's ready. And yeah, I love that Harmony is kind of pinballing around and has, you know, is going all these different places and changing her mind. Yeah. Yelling.

[00:41:08] She is. She is. Yeah. And I don't know what she'll do next. Neither do I. She has a weird energy. Cause I thought, yeah, I'm kind of glad that she didn't just go right back into like being manager of the severed floor or something like that. Yeah. Me too. Me too. It's now much more unpredictable. What's going to happen next. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. All right. I think we only have one more thing left to talk about. Audi Mark.

[00:41:37] Oh, two more things. Oh, okay. What else? What do you want to talk about? Natalie and Rickon. Oh, yeah. Right. The book deal. What the fuck? Dumbed down for the innies. That's all I wanted to say. She didn't say that. Maybe they're making it smarter for them. They have specific language that the innies will respond to. Certain verbiage. Certain verbiage. Sounds crazy. But that's not really. That's all I wanted to say.

[00:42:06] I just thought it was really funny. Yeah, it was vague. But she said there's a certain verbiage to which the innies respond to more favorably. And if I'm going to sort of guess what's going on, it's that Rickon's book inspired a revolt. And Lumen, instead of just saying, oh, let's get that book out of here. They're recognizing that, oh, this had a powerful impact on them.

[00:42:35] How can we turn that to our advantage? Tweak it in a way that instead inspires the employees to work harder and be more devoted to us or something like that. And Rickon being so full of himself and hungry for approval, he may just sell out to feel important. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I mean, hopefully he'll, once they start telling him specifically what they want to do, he'll be like, oh, no, that's not what I want to say. But we'll see. And Devin even asks. Devin's like, what's wrong with the original version?

[00:43:05] And, you know, Devin calls. But Rickon doesn't. Rickon's just happy that anyone's looking at it and listening to it. But, I mean, my guess would be, like, there's two powerful forces at play. There's Rickon's desire to feel important and appreciated. And there's Rickon's just hardcore ideals that he put into this book. He seems pretty, he seems to feel pretty strongly about the things that he says.

[00:43:35] So you would hope that that one will outweigh the other one where he won't sell out, you know? Right. Right, right, right. That he'll be smart enough to know what's going on. Oh, no. His ego is giant. He'll sell it out. Probably. I don't know. That's probably more fun if he did sell out. Okay. Mark. So Mark and Gemma, it was kind of fun seeing Mark.

[00:44:02] There's this format or whatever, a pattern in some movies and shows where you see a character executing some plan, but you don't know what it is until the end. That's kind of what we're seeing here where he's like timing himself and everything. Yeah. And by the end, we know that he's decided to try to burn the message who is alive into his retinas long enough so that when he wakes up in the severance elevator, that'll be the first thing he sees, which is pretty smart. I mean, it's worth a shot. Sure.

[00:44:27] Except that Rugabi tells him, A, that doesn't work. B, you could ruin your eyesight. Yeah. But see, Rugabi, she's a great character because she's – so people don't remember, she was the surgeon who, at least according to her, implanted these chips.

[00:44:50] But she's defected and now she's rebelling and she's the one who tried to reintegrate Petey and he ended up dying from it. And she – so she's like a force for good if you think Lumen is bad, but she's also very reckless and seems impulsive. And she has this goal that seems like it's more important than the safety of the people who she enlists to help her with the goal.

[00:45:20] So she's a person that you maybe don't know if you should really trust or not, which makes it more exciting than if she was just a full-on, like, trustworthy, smart person. And then, like, so she's like, no, no, no, no. I can do the – we have to do the reintegration. I can do it better now. And then when she goes to her machine downstairs, she's like banging on it so it'll start up. I know. Also, there's the – she pours sand onto a plate because the vibrations cause it to form a pattern.

[00:45:49] And does it look super scientific? Maybe it is. What do I know? Yeah. I mean, it was interesting about how she was saying the brainwaves are in different frequencies and she wanted to put them together to be the same.

[00:46:05] And one thing, too, I realized – I was saying an episode or two ago that I thought a good end point for this series would be if the severed people, their innies and their outies, were integrated so that they became a whole person who had the memories that they'd accumulated on both sides over the time. And it didn't hit me that, oh, we've already kind of seen that with Petey. I think that's what happened to him. Yes. It just didn't work right or well, you know.

[00:46:33] So we need to see it done well by the end if they go that direction. But now, I mean, I was surprised. It's like I thought because of how slow I thought things were moving in this episode that when Rugabi showed up and suggested that the way to do it would be to reintegrate Mark that they would then spend the next three episodes arguing about it or something. Instead, he's like, do it now! And they just did it. All she had to do is say, Gemma's alive. Gemma's alive, yeah, yeah.

[00:46:58] And, you know, before she can even get out, I can sew together a version of you that loves her with a version of you that can, yes, do it. Yeah, yeah. He didn't even need to hear the rest. Yes, yes, do it. But it did sound like what she was saying is a new version that has both, you know, included. Right, right.

[00:47:20] And if, like, this is sort of a tangent, but if there was a severed procedure and they had all the kinks worked out where you could do it for a little while and then reintegrate, then I might want to try that for like a week or something like that. That'd be kind of interesting. That you get to keep all the memories? Yeah, yeah. Keep all the memories of what your other half did the whole time? Yeah. Yeah. If that's the case, yes, maybe. For a short time. For a short time.

[00:47:49] If I get that time. Yeah. So I like the cliffhanger, though, the artful way that they kept flashing back and forth between the two versions of him. And then he's on the conference room table where we first met Hellie. And instead of Mark's voice talking to Hellie, it's Petey's voice, right? Talking to Mark. Who are you? And whatever the questions are. Yeah, exactly. And then the song Eminence Front comes on, which is a banger and perfect. Yeah, it was great. Great ending.

[00:48:19] One thing I want to say about all that is I thought it was really cute to see Mark and Devin working on this thing like it's a craft project. Felt letters over a UV filter light. And just I can't say it enough. I love her performance. Jen Tolick plays Devin. She's so natural. And I looked her up on Wikipedia. And she's been in a bunch of things, but it's really bit roles or like short films and stuff. She hasn't had a lot of other big roles. She was in the Perry Mason reboot. But I really hope to see her in more things.

[00:48:48] That would be great. She is fabulous. Anytime she's in a scene, I'm happy about it. Because, yeah, she's fantastic. I don't have a line for people to say to anybody this time. What's the name of the department? Mammalian. Mammalians Nurturable. Just say that. Let's see what happens. When you go to a restaurant, order that. Mammalians Nurturable.

[00:49:18] Or somebody asks you where you work at. Yeah, that's good. If you're a teacher. What do you teach?

[00:50:14] Okay. One thing in the news. Adam Scott talked with Variety. They asked if he knows the ending of Severance. He said, oh, yes. I'm an executive producer on the show. So I'm involved in all of it. So we talk with the writers and Dan Erickson all the time. I know everything about what's going on. As an actor, I like having as much information as possible. One thing about the show Lost. The actors didn't know what was going to happen even in the next episode.

[00:50:42] And so they had to commit to a way of playing their characters that sometimes didn't end up lining up with where things were going. And I could feel that sometimes. Like, oh, you know, I think if that actor knew that this character was actually going to kill somebody, that he wouldn't have played, like, a nice guy before, or things like that, you know? So I do think it's good whenever possible if you can let the actors know where the story's going so they can sort of play to it. Yeah, yeah.

[00:51:10] And I wonder, I mean, so they say they know exactly where it's going? They only have, like, well, we don't actually know, right? But they've said they want to do, like, four seasons. So I think there's a pretty good chance they at least know the general way it's going. Okay. Okay, yeah. That's what he says. I mean, if you're going to call Adam Scott a liar, that's fine. Have you seen his new movie? No, I have not.

[00:51:40] I'm curious. Have you? Yeah, me too. No, not yet. I'll watch it at some point. He seems pretty excited to be in a horror movie. That takes place in Ireland. Like, you don't have to ask me twice. About season three, he says, it's going to be great. There's so many surprises. I can't wait to shoot it. You know, it's been over two years since we finished shooting season two. We're all anxious to get back. We miss each other, which I thought was sweet. Yeah.

[00:52:08] Can you guys please just, please, please, please just start taping and get the new season out? I would appreciate it. Just do it as a nine-hour play and we will buy tickets. Or something. God. About how he really wanted the role in the beginning. He says, I don't know if I would categorize it as a battle, but I certainly had to prove I could do it, which makes sense. It was a big show, a big investment for Apple, so they needed to see that.

[00:52:38] It's an incredible role in an incredible world. It's everything I'd always wanted to do. When I read this script, first of all, I thought I probably won't get this job, but if I do, if I'm able to land this, it'll be because I've been earning this over the last 30 years. The opportunity to be considered for something like this and a role where you get to explore different sides of a person. Which I think it's great that he was so into it. And then he got it. And then he's so good at it. It all just makes sense.

[00:53:08] They chose the right guy for this role. They did. He said when Parks and Recreation ended, he wanted to find something a little more dramatic. He says, I just wanted to change it up and I had trouble being considered for anything that wasn't comedic. I really sought out Big Little Lies, for example. That was something I really wanted to do. I wanted to work with Reese Witherspoon and all those actors and Jean-Marc Vallée. But I really had to campaign for that and audition a few times and prove to them I could do something that wasn't comedic. Severance felt like a full meal.

[00:53:37] It felt like a complicated character and a complicated world and an adventure. Everything I'd done up to that point, those were all the things that fulfilled me. But this felt more like more of a culmination. He was great in Big Little Lies. Did you see him in that? I can't remember. Was that Nicole Kidman? She was in it. Yeah. And who else was in that? Was it Zoe Kravitz? Yeah. I did see that, but I don't even remember him in it.

[00:54:06] I just don't think I had my Adam Scott filter on yet. Yeah. He was terrific. Yeah. I got to watch that again. I did like it. I remember liking it. What else? On Severance being mysterious, he said, Something we're always trying to do on the show is retain an element of mystery. I love the way The Sopranos ended. I was frustrated by it, but it was brilliant and I still haven't figured it out. I love it not only in TV shows or movies, but I like it in music.

[00:54:33] I've always loved bands that wouldn't tell you everything about how music was made and who made it. I like when there's a place for my imagination to reach out and meet the work. That's terrific. That's great. If you want Adam Scott to like you, just say, Do you know how to keep a moron in suspense? I'm just kidding. Oh my God. That's not nice. I'll probably cut that out. Cut that out. I'll tell you tomorrow.

[00:55:07] So mean. Jesus. Just kidding. He'll never hear that. He'll never hear me say that. So anyway, one last thing he said about the show. He said, When the show first came out, we were still emerging from the pandemic. People were slowly returning to the office or working from home. And this new work-life balance felt strange for everyone. I think the show evoked those feelings. With something that's as high concept as severance, there has to be an emotional element to connect to. And there have to be characters to connect to.

[00:55:36] Otherwise, it just becomes something that's interesting, but isn't emotionally engaging. I mean, this show is so emotionally engaging to me. If you were presented with this technology, would you do this? Once you really consider that question, you start thinking about your life in a certain way, and it sets you on an interesting journey. That it does. Yep. Yep. Yep. Okay. Let's get into some feedback. Not a lot of feedback this week. Let's go. Okay. So the first one is from Elena who says, Oh, my heart, Zach Cherry. Yeah, he was great.

[00:56:07] He's great in fallouts, and he's going to be in the Resident Evil movie coming out. I can't wait. He'll probably die a horrific death. And apparently, he's a judge in an American version of The Great British Baking Show. Did you know that? No. I haven't seen it, but I read that. Oh, I had to look that up tonight. I know. Yes, please. Wendy Ann says, Great opening with the stone roses.

[00:56:37] What the heck is happening with Seth and Natalie? Creepy. I don't think anything's happening with him. He's just like, Are you serious with this shit? I think that's all that's happening. I've reached the goat people, and I can't express this enough. What the fuck? Yeah, exactly. That's pretty much where we are. Yeah, that's where we are, Wendy Ann. This next one comes from Marissa, who says, Hi, Karen and Jason, long-time listener, first time, blah, blah, blah, etc. I'm here for one reason, and one reason only. That's what she actually wrote, by the way.

[00:57:06] Karen just wrote that. Yeah, no, I'm not being mean. That's exactly what she wrote. Because I cheered out loud when Karen recommended Somebody Somewhere, one of the most wonderful shows I've ever watched repeatedly. Oh, I'm also here for the second reason. Do you think Rebecca is severed? She acts like it. Maybe the birds pecking her head are the lumen cover story for her brain implant scab. Gross. I hate that I typed that. It's so funny. Love y'all. Enjoy the insights.

[00:57:36] Call me if you ever decided to do a Somebody Somewhere show. Yes, we should. God, they should bring that back. Also, I have to recommend, speaking of Somebody Somewhere, and Jeff Hiller, who's in Somebody Somewhere, he's amazing. He is in a new show that is on Apple called Widow's Bay. It is funny. It is sort of a creepy, funny show.

[00:58:05] Hard to say that that's a genre, but I guess it is. He's in it. Yeah, I heard about this. They wanted to make a horror comedy. Yeah. Yeah, which sounds, I mean, I thought of Evil Dead, but it made me curious. It's good? It's great. Yeah? It is great. It made me laugh so many times. It's really, really funny, and he's absolutely, he doesn't have much to do yet. It's mainly poor Matthew Reese,

[00:58:36] and Matthew Reese is amazing, and it's great. It is great. There's three episodes out. I highly recommend it. That's cool. If you're a Jeff Hiller fan, you will find him in Widow's Bay, although, as of yet, not doing much. Hopefully, he'll do more. Yes. All right, we have two calls. Here's one from Damien. Hey, Kara. Hey, Jason. Episode three was, uh,

[00:59:06] I'm not sure, actually. Um, compared to the pacing of the previous, like, four or five episodes, this was, like, a real departure for me. Um, a lot of this episode was all about vibes. Uh, it was moody. The music was ethereal in a lot of it. We were confused. The characters were confused. Um, it felt like a collection of, like, a lot of different scenes that were awesome and necessary, but not completely unified, which added

[00:59:35] the confusion. He slips in and out of this dimension sometimes. they were going for. Um, but I loved every scene individually, don't get me wrong. Uh, there's a lot of meat here for us to dig into. Uh, beautiful meat, as usual. Uh, some of those shots of, uh, Cobell in, uh, in the snowy landscape were, like, Fargo-level good. Yes. Um, but the episode was peppered with really deep and touching scenes like Dylan

[01:00:04] meeting his outie's wife and Irving and Felicia talking about Bert. Um, and, oh, those, those, uh, drawings of Bert were just gorgeous. But then, like everything else, it pivots to really sinister as soon as she, as soon as Felicia sees the, uh, the pictures of the corridor. Um, and yeah, that, that sinister underbelly was there throughout the whole episode. That kind of added

[01:00:33] to your kind of nervous confusion. Um, oh, and of course the epic glorious craziness of the goat people. I'm sure you've talked about that in depth. Uh, this episode was the equivalent of, like, a bunch of people you love putting a bag over your head and then spinning you in circles while, um, chanting and occasionally poking you. Um, but the weirdness was bookended by two really dynamic Mark scenes. Uh,

[01:01:03] the first film like a heist movie as he strides towards Lumen with the fantastic love spreads by Manchester's own Stone Roses as a backdrop. Um, the other, a really dynamic pivot at the end of the episode as he begins the reintegration procedure. Uh, line of the week. He dumb? He dick? Oh, we forgot to say that. Stone Roses Zed Head crossover fact of the week. This is probably not a recurring segment.

[01:01:32] That glorious song at the beginning of the episode comes from the Stone Roses much awaited and delayed second album Second Coming which was greeted with mixed reviews on its eventual release, although it's a amazing Britpop blues rock masterpiece in my opinion. In the amazing Shaun of the Dead in the scene where Shaun and Ed are picking records to throw at the zombies in the garden this album gets a mention alongside the debut self-titled album. Wow.

[01:02:02] Batman soundtrack? Throw it. Die Straits? Throw it. Stone Roses? No. Second Coming? I like it. The more you know. Anyway, before you go we would like to see your bellies. That's a good mention. We love that movie so much. Oh, it's so good. Classic. Wow. Speaking of a horror comedy. I think that's the line that people need to

[01:02:32] ask a friend before they go. Oh, yeah. I need to see your belly. Check for a pouch. Before we go, I'm going to need to see your belly. You know, maybe as podcasters we owe it to the listeners to actually speculate on what's going on with the goats. But man, I really don't know. Because we don't know what the hell is happening with anybody. We don't know what these numbers that they're

[01:03:02] refining in MDR are about. We know that I suspect Lumen's trying to use the severance procedure to make everyone in the world their slaves. And also that whole Lexington letter thing suggested that somehow refining these numbers can lead to violence in the outside world. So maybe they're sort of weaponizing these people. So I don't know. It just seems

[01:03:32] like it's all about power and control. But how the hell goats would fit into that? I don't even have a guess. I don't know. And goats are all over this. Like if you look closely at Devin and Rickon's house, there's a little goat head statue in the background. So if people if listeners have you know theories on that, goat theories, give us your goat theories. Give us your goat theories. If they're related to severance, that's you get bonus points.

[01:04:04] Okay. One more call. It's from our friend Eric Nordhoff. Hey, Jason and Karen, Eric here. Just a couple of thoughts. These are really just random thoughts from the last few episodes and actually mostly from season one finale. The first comment is, I don't know if you've noticed this or mentioned this, but Dan Erickson, the writer, creator of Severance

[01:04:33] has a little cameo at the party. He's, as Mark's walking into the party, he's just kind of in the background there talking to one of the other attendees of the party. I thought that was really fun that they put him in there. I still haven't seen Ben Stiller in anything yet. I think we hear his voice in one of the episodes. I think it's in, it's actually, I think it's Keir Egan

[01:05:01] when he flies away on the computer screen and they're all amazed and wonder. I think Ben's voice is the voice of Keir Egan. So that's kind of fun. But the other thing that's, there's two things that are hard to believe that bother me about, so in other words, severance isn't perfect. Surprise, surprise. But it bothers me that Irving can drive so well, even though it does take him

[01:05:30] a few seconds to drive. I just can't believe that somebody can learn to drive that quickly. Like even just to know where to put the key or how to press the gas or even how it all works, you know, how to put things in park or drive or anything like that. So a little bit hard to believe there. I wish I could believe it, but I'm not quite there on that one. They know how to do things. Yeah, I mean, my answer to that would be does it bother

[01:06:00] you that Irving knows how to speak English? Right. Or that they know how to use the bathroom? Walk. It's a muscle memory. Yeah, I just think, yeah, it's all the things they've learned how to do. They keep more or less. They just don't have any conscious memories of learning it or anything else. And then in the season one opener, obviously now that we know after episode two of season two, we know

[01:06:29] that it's just been a day or two or maybe maximum a week since the, you know, when the innies return, even though Milchek says it's been, what, five months? months. So that, what's hard to believe is that that claymation, uh, that claymation, um, video could be made that quickly. Because from what I understand, that thing took

[01:06:59] months to make, uh, in real life. And, uh, that's just really hard to believe that they could turn around such a high-end claymation video, uh, with Keanu Reeves also narrating, which of course nobody knows that, but it's just funny. Uh, so. True. I'll give you that one. We thought the same thing. Just those three notes, the two unbelievable things for me are hard to, hard to believe. And then pretty

[01:07:29] cool that they have, uh, some cameos in there of, uh, the creators. That's it guys. Short one today, but always enjoy all of your commentary. You guys are doing so much such a great job. I'm really enjoying every episode. Thank you, Eric. That's really nice to hear. Yeah. Eric's gonna come guest with us later this season and so is Rachel. She's gonna come on in a couple episodes or something. Yeah. So we got a couple guests coming. Possibly Damien at some point. I'd asked him, but I didn't follow up. So we may have

[01:07:59] a few guests. Yes, please. Yeah. That'd be fun. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening, everybody. Thanks, everybody. That was fun. Next episode's ever in season two, episode four. Woes Hollow. Sounds like fun. If you want to write in or leave

[01:08:29] us a voice message about it, you can send it to wafflepartyatpodcastica.com. Or you can leave comments in the podcast discord. I see new people trickling in there every day. Welcome to everybody. Or you can join our Facebook group. You can chat with us or other listeners about severance or whatever else you're watching. And we'll have links in the show notes. Stick around for the quick Audi time section if you want to hear a more spoilery discussion. But other than that, that is it. That is our show. Thanks for listening.

[01:08:58] And I would wish you well, but we don't abide such fripperies here. Fine. Goodbye. So goodbye. Okay, we're back. It's time for Audi time. So this is spoilery.

[01:09:28] If you don't, if you haven't seen the series and you don't want any spoilers, this is your last warning. We will now be talking about spoilers. So just one little thing I wanted to say, and then Damien wrote a message about stuff. And if you have anything for us, so Helena talking to Irving, reassuring him about going back into O&D, if it is Helena, which I believe it is. I think, well, I thought, first of all,

[01:09:59] whatever her motivations are for doing that, she clearly knows what was going on. So I guess she's like studied up on what they were doing, right? Like that Irving was having a fling with Bert or whatever. She 100% was studying the tapes. And I mentioned this to David and said, you know, do you think it's because she's hot for Mark S or do you think it's

[01:10:29] just purely to be a mole? And David saw a darker thing. He said, no, she wants to manipulate them. she's driving some of this and she's steering it. So it's not just to be a spy. It's not just because she's somehow hot for Mark S. It's because she wants to manipulate them. And I thought the clearest indication of that is how she was with Irving and

[01:10:58] putting her hand on Irving and knowing that Irving and the innies haven't been touched much. And any touch probably, means a lot to them. And knowing the reaction she would get from him. And you could see it. Like he was blown away. But what is she trying to do? I think she knows that Irving is on to her. Oh. And she's trying to reassure

[01:11:28] him and get him to believe, maybe put aside any doubts that he might have. Yeah. I mean, she clearly saw that Irving was like a night gardener. So that's what I think. She was trying to cover for herself. Yeah. Well, see, yeah, okay. But I think that, I mean, because I don't actually remember what happens. This is even the spoiler section. So if we did remember, we would be talking about it, but I don't. So I would guess that at this point, you know,

[01:11:58] the only reason why the other Innes came back and replaced the replacement Innes that were there when Mark first came back is because Mark insisted on it. And they very much care about Mark being the one to finish Cold Harbor, whatever that is for whatever reason. So I think it could be as simple as, okay, he wanted us to come back in. We're not going to send Helly back in. She's trouble, so I'll just go back in. And then, you know, I can, if anything

[01:12:28] does come up, then I can try to steer it the right way. And then also, I think she has this other motivation of being intrigued by Helly's romantic interactions with Mark. And so I think it's a double, triple motivation. One is just to keep him detract from that and then see that she's in love with him. Some of that sweet, sweet Adam Scott. Yeah.

[01:12:58] But maybe there's even more to it. I'd be curious from David to know if he thinks there's anything more specific that we haven't mentioned yet. He has a whole theory. Oh yeah, tell him to come on and talk about it or something. Yeah, or send us a voicemail. Call in or yeah, totally, yeah. Uh, Damien said, are we really sure that Helena is undercover as Helly this whole time in season two? I took her Night Gardner explanation as Helly covering for the fact she didn't

[01:13:28] want to share who she really was to the other innies. That explanation sounds like something a naive innie might come up with. Her body language is so Helly in this episode. My memory of watching it the first time was that Helena was just undercover during the upcoming field trip. But now you got me second guessing. And I think you're probably right. I'm pretty sure we're right because a few reasons. One, she was fumbling with her computer power button in the first season two episode one. Yeah. We also

[01:13:58] saw Helena Dylan and Irving go into the severed elevator and heard two dings with Dylan and Irving. One is when the elevator got there. Second is the ding you hear when they transform. But we didn't hear the second ding with Helena. I think that's a pretty big piece of evidence. Also, Helena was watching the video of Helly's kiss with Mark and later we know Helena sleeps with Mark so it makes sense that she's the one in there crushing on him now. And she's

[01:14:28] not sassy and rebellious like usual. I actually think her body language and her vibe is different than Helly. She's more formal and kind of dainty or something, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think she's passing as well as she thinks she is. But Mark doesn't, I mean, they're too naive to notice. They are. Like even Irving, I don't think he's really suspicious anymore. He's not even thinking about it. I think what you said, Damien,

[01:14:58] is what they were hoping a lot of us would think, that Helly lied because she was embarrassed about who she was. But the twist is, oh wait, she's actually been Helena the whole time. Yeah. That's what I think. I think that's true. Anything else? Nope. I'm bracing myself for the next episode, Woe's Hollow. Is that the one with? I think so. What's her name? Kobel going back to? Yeah, I think so. But you

[01:15:27] know what? You know what? Tabula Raza. Yeah. I've decided I'm going to watch it with an open mind. Get rid of all your baggage. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to watch it as if I'm an innie, fresh from the severance procedure. Me too. I'm totally going to do that. And you know what else? I will wish you guys well. We do abide for breeze. Oh,

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