Severance S2E5 "Trojan's Horse"

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Oh... It's hard to pinpoint a favorite Irving story. For the least fun guy in the world, he was really fun. He put the dick in contradiction. One time, he was pissed at me for watering down the toner, so he put toner in my water cup.

[00:00:31] He stopped me before I drank it, though. He just wanted to make a point and not harm me physically. But I did accidentally take a sip of it later, because I forgot he said that. He asked me for help with something near the end, and I didn't listen. And in his final moments, he would have been totally justified in telling me to suck my own fuck. But he didn't.

[00:01:08] He was awesome, and I miss him. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Kara. And this is Wax Episodic. And this episode, we're covering Severance Season 2, Episode 5, Trojan's Horse. Or maybe we're just pretending to. We're really up to something else. Yes. Send us your credit card numbers.

[00:01:38] No, I'll use them. And we'll tell you what it is. Trojan's Horse. I love that so much. Before we get into the episode, I wanted to mention that listeners have been talking about this show, Widow's Bay, that you mentioned. Really? The time before that. Yeah. Yeah. They've been saying, oh, you should check this out. It's great. I went to Rotten Tomatoes, and it was like a 97 with a 91 audience score.

[00:02:04] So you decided to believe Rotten Tomatoes over me. I see how it is. No, I double checked. But if you guys don't remember, I haven't had a chance to watch it yet. It's a comedy horror. The premise says, a skeptical mayor of a New England island town refuses to bow to the superstitions of the residents who claim that the place is cursed.

[00:02:27] And it's a 10 episode first season. But I'm excited to get into it and see if I like it. I'm not mentioning this for any reason other than to say that I thought it was kind of cool that you'd mentioned the show and then some other people did. So I'm like, oh, maybe there's a new cool show I can get into. Heck yeah. Plus, it's got great actors and it's all filmed in and around Massachusetts and maybe Maine also.

[00:02:51] So yeah, it's very New Englandy, very New Englandy, which is wonderful. So David and I are loving it. We can't wait for the next episode. Yeah, yeah. Cool. I think they're like a little over halfway through season one or something like that. Yeah, there's been like four or five episodes and they're all really weird and funny and but also kind of scary too. So enjoy folks.

[00:03:21] Sounds awesome. Okay. Well, yeah, maybe I'll figure out a way to cover that at some point. I wish I'd learned about it sooner. But anyway, let's get into this week's episode severance season two, episode five Trojan's horse. The plot summary says following the Ortbo, a reluctant Helena is compelled to let her innie go back to working on the severed floor until Mark completes the cold harbor file.

[00:03:44] Milchick fulfills Dylan's demand for a funeral for Irving. During the ceremony, Dylan realizes that Irving's final words to him reference a break room poster behind it. He discovers a card with directions to the exports hall, but quickly hides it again.

[00:03:59] Helly learns that Miss Casey is Mark's outies wife and Mark tells her he can't trust her. Can't trust Miss. Uh, Helly Milchick undergoes his first performance review as department head where Drummond admonishes his failed kindness reforms demanding that the innies be treated quote as what they really are. Milchick confronts Mark revealing he knows that Mark and Helena had sex during the retreat. Only he used a much coarser word for it.

[00:04:28] Yes, he did. Rickon begins work on the Lumen edition of the UUR laden with company propaganda to Devin's dismay. Irving's Audi notices Bert watching him. Bert admits he has been following him since the overtime contingency and theorizes that they were romantically involved on the severed floor. He invites Irving to dinner with his husband Fields. That's an interesting name. Sounds like a last name. Mark in a sudden flash to the severed floor while at home sees Gemma alive as Miss Casey.

[00:04:58] So this is another one where a lot of stuff happened. A lot, a lot of stuff. I love this episode. I really, really did. Yeah. I loved it even more on second and third watch. Um, even though at this point everyone seems pretty unhappy. Yeah. It's angsty. It is very angsty, but a lot of stuff happens and many things that even though it was very angsty, um, a lot of stuff that delighted me. So I really, really enjoyed this episode.

[00:05:26] It's good. I mean, to me, I, I, when I was younger, I was a huge fan of soaps. Soaps. I was into general hospital and all my children and this felt like a really well done, surreal, weird soap opera because there's a lot of angsty relationship conflict, but it's like, because it's between the innies and the outies, like being mad at someone because they slept with your own self. Right. With a different severed consciousness.

[00:05:54] Yeah. That's what it would be in a, in a soap that happened all the time. People pretended to be their own twin and slept with that person's wife or husband or whatever. Sure. Yeah. Every other week. That's soap opera 101, man. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Also, I like that they keep hitting this theme of whether the innies are full human beings with full rights that any human should have and stuff like that. So that was big in this episode too.

[00:06:20] They called them monsters or Helena called them monsters, but you know, she had been tempted to be murdered by them twice. So she called them animals, animals, animals. Yeah. What's wrong with animals? Animals are cute. Nothing's wrong with animals. In fact, I prefer them to humans sometimes. We are actually animals. Yeah. We're mammals. So do you want to go first? No, I want you to go first. Okay. My first one is actually all about you. No, I'm just kidding. Ooh. Let's get into it.

[00:06:51] It's about Milchick. Yeah, let's hear it. Who I think they're finally starting to humanize Milchick. They are. Which I hope so. I'm glad. I want to see more of that because I'm tired of saying how much I hate Milchick. I don't want to hate Milchick. I want Milchick to turn over a new leaf. That'd be cool. Yeah. And I predict he's the next one to turn against Lumen. I hope so.

[00:07:21] Maybe he's a Trojan's horse. Maybe. Trojan's horse. It's Trojan horse. So Miss Huang criticizes him. Wait. She says Huang. Miss Huang. Criticizes him for having let the Innies have a funeral for Irving because it'll make them feel like people. And so that just shows how much Miss Huang is just pure lumen. She's like, they're tools, they're objects. If you let them.

[00:07:49] The same thing Drummond's saying to him later in his performance review, basically. Right. Right. She has an offer. They do not get along. Huang and Milchick. And Milchick. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she's, well, you know, when she said, oh, your performance reviews today, that seemed like a threat or something. Yeah. Like maybe she's gunning for his position. But why say that out loud then? Maybe just to give him some sense of doubt so he wouldn't.

[00:08:18] I think to freak him out. Yeah. Okay. I like that he said he okayed the funeral because the affections index for Irving B was in the high 60s. Yeah. Yeah. They just track every fucking thing and dehumanize the hell out of it. But I want to know where I plot on the affections index for you. Oh, you're high on the affections index. Yeah. 60s? What was Irving? High 60s. Oh, no.

[00:08:47] You're like, I'm going to rate you in the high 80s, low 90s. Wow. That's pretty great. I don't want to rate you too high because I want you to keep trying. I got some, we need some room to grow. Right. Exactly. We don't even live together. I've got some nice finger traps for you as an incentive to keep going. Okay. I'll try my hardest.

[00:09:12] Later, Milchik asks Natalie to be honest about how she felt when she received those paintings. And, you know, because they both got the same paintings showing black versions of all the Keir Egan paintings. And he says, because I'm thinking our experiences here have been similar in some ways. We face similar challenges and perhaps the paintings and the somewhat complicated feelings they evoke.

[00:09:39] I presume he just means because they're both black and have faced racism, maybe? Yeah. Great. And the paintings are really troubling. I mean, he did not like them. Yeah. He put them on the highest shelf so he wouldn't have to look at them. So, yeah. He wanted to talk to her like, hey, girl, you're also black. Let's talk about this and how it makes us feel. Yeah. Isn't that insulting? Yeah. And she's so in deep.

[00:10:09] She doesn't, she won't. I mean, also she looked at them like, you know, maybe the board is in her ear all the time. So she was not about, yeah, she was not about to talk about it with him. Never. I mean, she never, like, this was a rare occurrence of seeing a real human side of Milchick come out. And he was, I think, kind of asking for the same from her and she declined.

[00:10:37] But I do hope we get to see the real her at some point, like fully mask off. That would be really interesting, right? Because I'm sure there's a lot more to her than what we're seeing. I would hope to God there is. I do not know. I don't know. She's a robot. These people really look like they are in deep in this cult. Yeah. But even when you're in deep in a cult, you can be deprogrammed.

[00:11:05] You know, there's something in there that has a potential to be brought back, I think. Yeah, sure. You know? I'd like to see that. Okay. I love the performance review. I used to get those every year at Apple. They had an interesting way of doing it. I don't know how common this is, but they would have us all write our own performance reviews and then they would tweak them. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. And I kind of love that because I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm great. Look at all this stuff I did.

[00:11:33] Some people don't feel comfortable talking themselves up. Not me. I was like happy to do it. It was kind of fun. And they would give you positive areas, areas for growth, goals, you know. I mean, actually getting the performance review sometimes was uncomfortable when they got to the areas for growth. But yeah, yeah. That's interesting. Do you think that they also had you write your own because it was less work for them? Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:12:02] I mean, I think, you know, you're a manager and you have 10 people and I liked it though, you know? I mean, I don't feel like, oh, yeah, they need to have all that work. I think it was a good way to do it. Have you written your own performance review lately? I'm my own boss, so it's real short. You're doing a heck of a job. You're doing fine. So Drummond conducts it.

[00:12:32] And I like Drummond. He's so imposing and intimidating and high up, right? He seems like under Kier, maybe the highest one. Yeah. Seems like it. I mean, not Kier. What's her name? Jame. Jame Egan. Jame. I was under the impression that he was Helena's security guard. Like an enforcer or something, right? Right. I don't think he's that at all. No, because here she's like asking his permission to talk to her own father later on. Yeah. Yes.

[00:13:02] And this was also strange. She said to him, they were talking about that. And I had captions on. I watch it sometimes with captions on. Me too. And the scene between Helena, Natalie, and Mr. Drummond, she asked about her plan for the Indy to go back in. And she says, and father approves?

[00:13:30] And his reply is, father encouraged it. And he refers to Jame as father. And I thought, oh, I wonder if he's also an Egan. Oh, right. Or if maybe they just use that term because they're weird. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's a cult. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Maybe he's an Egan too. I don't know. I think his last name is Drummond though. So I'm not sure. It is Drummond. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:58] But he does say, I mean, according to the closed captions, he replies, father encouraged it. So in the performance review, he says, let's start with the positive. And there's a lot of these that are funny, but I feel like they can be read more into than just, that was a great funny line. Like when he says, you received the cure paintings with grace. I wonder if that means, you know what?

[00:14:26] We actually knew that you should and would be upset by that. And that's why we gave it to you. So we could test you and make sure that you would take shit from us without saying anything. Yes. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do. I think. Not like a misguided attempt to actually motivate him, but more like, let's give him something that should piss anyone off and see if he's loyal enough to just grin and bear it. Yep. And he did. And he did. Yeah. Yep. Yep. I mean, I could tell he was upset, but.

[00:14:56] Right. He still didn't say anything. Yeah. They said, your attendance and your analysis are both in the excellent range, which means you showed up to work and stayed off drugs. I think that's what that means. Do you think so? I don't know. Why do you test urine? I mean, normally you test for drugs, but this is lumen. Maybe you're testing for the four. Tempers. Tempers.

[00:15:26] Could be. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, we don't really know, but my first thought was, well, he just talked to Natalie about, you know, being treated badly. And maybe this was like saying they don't even trust me. They test my urine or something. I don't know. Yeah. Weird. Weird. He said three anonymous contentions have been reported. One uses too many big words, which I kind of agree with, but it's fun. It's delightful. Please keep using the big words because it makes me laugh.

[00:15:53] I've been accused of using language that's not casual enough. And I don't care. Like, I believe in using precise words, but I also believe in not using a word that's not necessary. For example, I always hate the word utilize. Just say use. I don't know any example where you would need to say utilize instead of use.

[00:16:23] She was underutilized. At work, she was underutilized. Underused. Maybe you're right, but that's a different word. But okay. I'll give you half a point for that one. It's the same word with under in front of it. I mean, saying underused. I guess if you were talking about a person, you should utilize Sharon more instead of you should use Sharon more because using a person sounds not nice. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's good. Thank you.

[00:16:52] But most cases people use utilize when they shouldn't. People utilize the word utilize too much. So anyway, what else? He goes, well, perchance I may colloquially employ a, and Drummond's like, anti-deflections will be heard after the lunch break. It's funny because Drummond uses words, big words too. In that meeting. Yeah. In that meeting. Then complaint number two. This is a really long one, by the way. Sorry, but it's all Milchick had a lot this episode. It's great.

[00:17:22] Number two complaint. Paperclip installed back to front on several daily logs, which led to confusion about where to start reading. What the fuck? Yeah. Well, I think that was my reaction. What? But it's also just another reminder about the level of control in the company. And Milchick, like the most attentive to detail person ever, even he can't live up to all the little expectations placed upon them.

[00:17:50] Or maybe he does live up, but they always have to find something, you know, just to keep people in their place. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Hilarious. And then the main one, he says, you brought in a new refining team around Marques, which failed to coalesce. You instituted kindness reforms. And he goes, because I'm not Harmony Cobell. And you think about it, all this stuff that he's been doing for season two is about putting on a new face for Lumen.

[00:18:19] And here you get the sense that, oh, maybe he was actually trying to be kinder. Right? Exactly. Exactly. He was. He was. He did. He did take the lock off the door so they can enter and exit anytime they wanted. The break room's gone. The torture chamber. Torture chamber. Right. Exactly. Exactly. So. I mean, so I've said that Lumen. New snacks.

[00:18:46] Sometimes uses the carrot and sometimes the stick. Right? And Milchick's been all carrot in season two. But it's still manipulative. He still lies constantly. Um, but it is better than before. So I will give him that. And here it feels like I thought that was just sort of what Lumen thought they had to do to control this horrible situation after the season finale of season one.

[00:19:14] But now I feel like, oh, maybe it was part, at least in part Milchick going, you know what? Kobo's gone. I didn't like how mean she was. I'm going to try to be nicer. So there's a little nice thing. But the whole Ortbo was a, was his idea of giving them a little, they wanted to see what the outdoors was like. And team building is nice too. It's a nice thing. Team building is nice.

[00:19:40] And they were going to taste marshmallows in front of a campfire and listen to the beautiful theremin. And be told about the tallest, see the tallest waterfall in the world. The air quotes, tallest waterfall. Yeah. But too bad the Ortbo was calamitous. Yeah. And that was mostly Helena's fault, by the way. I don't know if Milchick could have done much about that. No, he couldn't have done anything about that. But I am interested.

[00:20:08] I wonder if they were really wanting Cold Harbor to be finished quickly, why did they think it was a good idea to go on an Ortbo in the first place? Why not dangle it as an incentive for once they finished the Cold Harbor file? Although I guess it was a weekend, so it didn't really take extra time away from them. Good point. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:33] I mean, team building is meant to get more productivity out of your employees. That's the cold, hard truth, right? It's not about being nice. It's about let's do something to try to increase productivity. Yes. Right. Right. Exactly. Exactly. So then Drummond gives him all of the things he did wrong. And then he still gets to keep his job.

[00:21:03] And he's like, here's the stakes. Mark Scout's completion of Cold Harbor will be remembered as one of the greatest moments in the history of this planet. Yes. Well, that's a big deal, it sounds like. I can't believe I don't remember what it is. And I don't remember if I feel like they do say this season, but I can't remember for sure whether they do or not. What Cold Harbor is? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't remember. Both of us have apparently our Audis watched it. Our Indies have not. Same thing happened to me with Fallout.

[00:21:32] Like the whole thing revolved around this little glowy thing. And when we podcast, I know now because I podcasted. And so I'm very immersed in the details, but when we podcasted about it the first time after I'd already seen the whole season, I had no clue what it was the whole time. That's how much I remember shows I don't podcast about. So I'm glad I don't remember. I like mystery. We have a lot of stuff going on. That's right. I got two kids.

[00:22:02] Yeah. So Drummond's like, you're going to get to keep your job, but it's time to go back to basics. Remember these severed workers, greater purpose and treat them as they really are, which they think is subhuman. Right. And Milchik says, I'm tightening the leash. And then he does. So then we see him confront Mark in the elevator for leaving six minutes early, which sounds like a goofy Lumen thing, but it made me think of punch cards. Like I would have gotten in trouble for leaving six minutes early at my first jobs too.

[00:22:31] When I worked at the movie theater McDonald's. Right. Your shift isn't over. Yeah. Yes. Then Mark's like, not afraid to be talk sass to him saying, mentioning the bullshit gazette and everything. And then he gets right up in his face. Did you and hell are catch up? We did. Did you tell her that you fucked her Audi at the Ork boat? Helena Egan leader in waiting of this company. And I, that's so Milchik.

[00:23:00] He knows he's always good at pinpointing what motivates people. And he's right. This has been the main thing in Mark's mind. But now he's gone back to using this stick instead of the carrot. I think basically he's saying, if you don't get busy and work hard, I'm going to tell Helly what happened. Right? That's what I thought. Yeah. And also just want to put it out there. It's not Mark's fault. Or Mark. He was hoodwinked. Right?

[00:23:30] Yeah. I mean, it's complicated because, you know, I could see why Helly would be mad that he didn't know, that he didn't notice. It's just like in those soaps when somebody sleeps with his wife's evil twin sister and, you know, the wife is mad. Like, come on, didn't you know it wasn't me?

[00:23:56] So I don't think, I mean, I very much empathize with Mark, but I can understand why Helly would be mad. You have an identical twin. Jason, you have an identical twin. He is evil. He gets with Jenny. And I mean, he impersonates you perfectly. I'm getting mad right now just thinking about it. Me. I'll kick his ass. And Jenny's like, man, you were especially good last night.

[00:24:26] I'm like, what? I was out of town. I don't know. I feel like if there was, if my evil twin hoodwinked David, I'd like to think I had the capacity to be on his side in this situation and understand that the blame falls on my evil twin sister, Sharon.

[00:24:56] No, she's the real Karen. I can, I can, uh, she's the one who's actually Karen. All right. Listeners, I'm always telling you guys to say things to people. And I know you probably never have because no one's written back and told me, reported back. But I really mean it this time. I would love for you to write in and tell us your opinion on this. Yes. Do you think it's that you would be mad if your spouse slept with your evil twin and didn't know the difference?

[00:25:26] And Mark seems mad at poor Hellie. Well, do you minding get into that? Because I have a lot of thoughts. Do. Go into it, man. Go into it. Well, um, so Hellie's back in the office for the first time this season. Yes, she is. It's good to see her. She wakes up being drowned. Yeah. And then we really didn't see what happened after that, but it doesn't matter. So now she's back in the office.

[00:25:54] She's pissed to learn that Helena had been impersonating her. Milchick says she was conducting valuable research. That's bullshit. She was just trying to placate Mark. So he would keep working. But anyways, Hellie goes by stealing my fucking body. I love that. Like I said at the top, there's little moments all throughout this episode where they're the innies are asserting. I'm a person like anyone else. And from her point of view, this other person was in her body pretending to be her.

[00:26:23] That's exactly what happened. Yes. So anyways, um, Milchick tells the story of the, oh, I forgot to remember the pronunciation because the way it's spelled is not like it's pronounced. Grok Schupin. Grok Schupin. Which is not, which is not the way that the, um, that the Swedes actually pronounce it. It's completely. It's not. No, it's bullshit. It's not spelled that way. It says. Grok Schupin.

[00:27:04] Grok Schupin. He says, Helena was doing the same. That's a lie. And they don't trust him either. I was glad. They're like, you're, I forget what they said, but they didn't believe him any of that. Um, so then we see that Mark, uh, well, there's the whole thing about them wanting to do the funeral for Irving and Mark doesn't care. And what I noticed about Mark is he vibes a little more like Audi Mark now.

[00:27:36] Yeah. He does. Yeah. He does. He does. He does. He does. I thought that was a mirror of an episode last season when she was in there upset and he's like, I'm coming in. And then she goes, you couldn't tell she was me.

[00:28:05] I didn't feel like, especially the way that, um, Brett Lauer delivered that she wasn't being very accusatory. She was just like, you couldn't actually tell, but, um, she doesn't know what happened. And then I love this next part. She goes, what was she like? And he goes like you, or you're like her. I don't know. I don't know who you are, I guess. And I think he's trying to figure out how could I have done that?

[00:28:34] And then how could I have thought it was you? Well, if I didn't know the difference, I guess I didn't know you as well as I thought I did. You know, he's just like, I should have been able to tell, but I couldn't. So I guess I don't really know you. That's why he's saying, I don't know who you are, I guess. Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's right. And I also think that he feels, he feels abused by Helena.

[00:29:02] Like he was tricked into sleeping with a stranger, which is sexual abuse. And he's definitely, he's definitely trying to come to grips with what happened. And then the fact that he slept with somebody he didn't know. And he looks hurt. Imagine if the genders were reversed. It would seem a lot worse. Oh, much. I mean, it's pretty much the same thing. Yeah. And I feel terrible for him.

[00:29:31] I want to, you know, I don't blame him. She fooled everybody. Yeah. I mean, she, she didn't really fool Irving. Irving smelled her as a fake. And that's, it probably makes it seem even harder for him. Yeah. Like, oh, Irving noticed.

[00:29:49] And it's just, maybe he, maybe, you know, I'm reading into this stuff that might not even be there, but I could imagine maybe he, there were some signs that he just ignored because he was just feeling so good. You know? Right. That later he's like, oh, God, yeah. She wasn't acting as kind of sassy as she usually is. And I just didn't understand why, but it was so fun that I didn't really think about it or whatever.

[00:30:19] Yeah. You know? Yeah. And then being like, God damn, I blew it. And then, and then, um, she goes, well, she's like, after he said to you, I guess I didn't, or no, no. After he said, uh, I don't know who you are, I guess. Then she's like, Whoa, what are you saying that for? What happened? Like what? I thought something was between us. And now you're saying you didn't know me. What happened up there? And then she goes, don't you want to hear what happened to me?

[00:30:48] And he doesn't really care. He's like, it doesn't matter. But that's weird for her because she's like, wait, you just found out I was Helena Egan. Don't you want to know what I saw up there? And he doesn't because he, he doesn't care about that anymore. He's just like, man, this awful thing happened. I don't know if I should, how guilty I should feel, but I just don't want to face it. I really think he's like not wanting to face it. And that's very much a part of Mark's personality, by the way, he's doing the whole severance thing because he doesn't want to feel the pain that he's in about his wife.

[00:31:16] And now he's like, cause I just think that in our lives, you know, I don't know if it's a hundred percent of us, but I think most of us, you've done something that you realized later was probably wrong or bad. You've felt bad about it, but it's hard to bring it out in the open, admit it, face the consequences. I think people go their whole lives holding stuff like that in rather than work through it with people sometimes, you know, because it's so hard to just go up to the person.

[00:31:46] And say, all right, here's what I did. Let's work through it. Please don't hurt me. So I don't know. So I think that's where he's at, you know? Yep. Yep. Yep. Feeling confused. It has. I mean, he's the poor innies. They have so little help and context and there's, there's such, um, easy targets.

[00:32:16] They're easy marks. They're kind of like children in some ways. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And now, and also he doesn't know if he can trust her as you know, she's like, I'm not her. I'm me. And he goes, how do I know that? And she goes, you don't, you just have to trust me. This is real. Not everything here is a lie. And then she says the thing that should be a clue that it is Hellie and stop being a fucking asshole. Yeah. Right. Exactly. That's the part that was missing with Helena.

[00:32:44] But she doesn't know yet that he slept with Helena. No. And, and that's the part that makes it feel so soap opera. Like you have this secret hanging out there and kind of dreading. Like, I feel like him, like, oh, when that comes out, is it going to ruin everything? I hope not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, cause I love them as a couple. I do too. I do too. Yeah, I do too. I absolutely do.

[00:33:13] I think it'll be interesting to see how that goes forward. Yeah. I think I have some memory of it, but I don't want to spoil it. All right. What else? My, my any, my, sorry, my Audi knows what happens. My any is right here and she's clueless. Yeah. This is the innies doing this podcast, by the way. We're like children. We don't know anything. Okay. Let's talk about that opening sequence.

[00:33:43] It was weird. I've been skipping it. Is it different each time? Sorry. The cold open. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Yeah. The cold open. So it's the guy in the white coat and he's whistling the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Did you, did you clock the song? Did you know the song? No, I thought about trying to find out and I didn't. So I'm glad you did. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. David was like, oh, I know that song. Oh. Yeah.

[00:34:13] Yeah. And it's based on actually a 1975 boat wreck on Lake Superior that killed 29 crewmen. Yeah. In 1975. And it was the, it's a really strange boat wreck and really tragic. This boat. I knew it had to be something like that. Yeah. Yeah. But sailing on, on Lake Superior, which is one of the great lakes.

[00:34:43] And I guess a freak storm, a freak storm came up and they don't really know what happened. They, they found the ship broken too on the bottom of Lake Superior. And they didn't even have time. I don't think to send an SOS out. So at one point the, the captain radio radioed, um, whoever and said, we're holding our own.

[00:35:11] And then, uh, all of a sudden they're gone. Um, so, um, a really weird, um, story anyway. So that's. So if he's going back and forth between. The exports hall. And whatever other departments and this mysterious black exports hall. I wonder if he's carrying that tune with him and it's supposed to be a metaphor for some bad shit going on there. Yeah. There's, and there's some, um, yes.

[00:35:37] And there's some interesting, um, uh, ship sort of motifs during this whole episode. Because Mr. Milchak mentioned to our folks at, uh, MDR that Irving, um, his Audi is on an extended cruise voyage. Um, which is interesting. Lie. Yeah, right. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:36:00] Um, cold Harbor is the name of the, um, of the file that Mark's working on that when it is finished, it will be remembered as one of the greatest moments in the history of the planet. So funny. Um, so there's some. By everyone except for the billions of enslaved people. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Right. Um, yeah, it's just weird.

[00:36:27] And then he's picking up, it looks like dentist equipment, um, from O and D that. Which could be for dental work or maybe torture. That's, those are my two thoughts. God. You know what? I love modern dentistry. I really do. I'm so glad that we don't live in olden times because dentistry back in the, in the day was a painful thing entirely.

[00:36:51] Um, and modern dentistry is pretty painless, but man, I have a thing about teeth and looking at those instruments. I just, it's the worst. It is absolutely the worst. And he's going back and forth to the exports hall. So whole thing is pretty creepy. And I just wanted to say, um, how weird it was and how interesting. And I love that they just keep building on the mythology. This show. Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah.

[00:37:18] So yeah, this place is what Audi Irving, who's been seemingly investigating Lumen, decide to try to communicate to as any to go and look at by painting it over and over again. And we don't know much about it outside of that. Yes. But now we know that we've learned recently that at least O and D delivered stuff there and it's called the export hall.

[00:37:45] We also know now, I think this is the first time actually seeing it on screen outside of paintings and any Irving's hallucinations. Yeah. But we know that, uh, it's a down elevator. So the severed floor is already down in the bowels of Lumen, but this is even lower. Even lower. And when the guy got in, it dinged like the elevator always does when it comes. And then it dinged again, which happens when the severed person turns into their other half.

[00:38:14] So it makes me wonder, oh, is he turning into somebody else or something? You know? I know. It's weird, right? Like you need another kind of person down there or something like that? Right. Right. Can I give a dramatic recital of the directions to get to the export hall? Oh God. All right. You ready? Oh wait. Just, okay. But before you do that, just let's set that up. So then at the end of Irving's funeral, Dylan sees the hang in there painting.

[00:38:41] And that's at the end of last week's episode, Irving said to Dylan, just remember, hang in there. Hang in there. I had to go back and look that up. So that's why he thought, oh, let me look behind here and finds the drawing with Irving's directions. Right. And so he finds it and he finds the map and he finds the drawing of the exports hall in the back. Yeah, the map. And the directions are as followed.

[00:39:06] From O&D, first turn right on, uh, all the way down the hall and turn right, turn right, turn left, down a long hall, turn left, turn left, turn right, right, left, left,xin' right. right left right left left right right left left down long haul turn right then left right turn

[00:39:26] right one more time and all the way down a long hallway dot dot dot yes see if i can trust anyone to get that right irving would be the guy well i that and it comes from felicia who i would also trust by the way because it comes from felicia okay so remember oh he was she's the one who wrote it oh okay i don't know her well enough to trust her but hopefully she's right yeah she's an o and

[00:39:55] d and she and she was so sweet she hugged she hugged irving and clearly loves him doesn't mean she's good with directions but she used to deliver things and now they have a guy oh yeah that's right she's the one who knew yeah that's the guy that's right uh yeah so hopefully i mean just showing this didn't really have much to do with the rest of the episode but hopefully it sets us

[00:40:20] up for dylan to go exploring maybe yeah yeah or somebody now we have directions at least from little by little we're getting yeah okay let's talk about dylan so he's super upset about irving being gone he's feeling guilty about not having helped him with helena or heli uh and also this is very

[00:40:44] much again like him saying we're people and you know when milchik says irving was dismissed he goes so so he's dead i wouldn't say dead either i would say unconscious but potentially forever yeah it's a little slight nuance yeah but um because he could potentially come back if they just brought out

[00:41:08] irving back um he milchik lies that he's on a cruise and extended cruise voyage i don't give a three flying fucks about his audi just that's another reinforcement like they're different people these are two different people milchik still doesn't get that part of it then milchik admits he's he's not coming back and and dylan's like you fucking murderers and then he wants to have the

[00:41:34] funeral and um he says he's a person and he's gone so we'd like to have a funeral not a retirement party i just love that there i always love when bullshit is called directly you know gaslighting and stuff just spelled out like it's not a retirement party right that's not what this is um then um

[00:41:57] i like that he pants he prints out all this dot matrix stuff for the and the sign on the back said irving b quarter 870 to quarter 882 which is 12 quarters so maybe three years he worked there for yeah if if they're clocking quarters the way we do we do yeah yeah and and who knows uh did you work

[00:42:21] out the math of how long that would make lumen if if they're clocking four quarters a year uh did they say how many quarters well they said um yeah so um they said uh quarter 870 to 882 which is 12 quarters so if you did um oh i see what you're saying if 882 quarters 882 quarters is about

[00:42:46] 220 years oh i think yeah i think well maybe that's in the future but anyway i think we've learned that they've been around that long yeah i think that makes sense back maybe back when it was an ether factory it was like a couple hundred years he was stirring ether so then he uh built six like they can have nine a nine second silent remembrance but it was more like five or six seconds yeah can't

[00:43:12] even give him the full nine can't even give him a nine and by the way why time is so weird at lumen why nine seconds i think it's weird uh intervals like that just to reinforce to the people that whatever we decide is the way it's gonna be it's it doesn't even need to make sense yes to you it's our choice we have full control you know we're not gonna do round off numbers because that seems

[00:43:40] reasonable right one minute one minute of silence is the usual we're gonna or we're gonna have a moment of silence we're not yeah exactly that's too human though and it also yeah it gives us feel like we've just calculated every the the juice out of everything you know right out of everything right um then uh dylan gives the eulogy i won't repeat the whole thing but i like he said for the

[00:44:07] least fun guy in the world he was really fun he put the dick in contradiction yeah fabulous very dylan and then milchik says you may now briefly partake in irving's fruit head which is another i think totally misguided fucked up attempt by milchik to placate them yes it's like oh they liked irving so they should like to eat a melon shaped like his face i don't know

[00:44:33] i mean they do start eating yeah his ear melon that's got yeah can you imagine going to a funeral and seeing that no although now i want one at my funeral that would be awesome okay that would be so noted amazing i wanted to be the black beauty melon from malaysia okay you really mean that yes yes yes i think it'd be so funny to have my fruit head i mean i i'm hoping i don't die anytime soon so that

[00:45:03] you can you can say to david you know um sorry about karen but as uh something she said i have it on tape and it'll be really funny we should totally do this at her funeral people will laugh no i'm gonna be eating watermelon and crying and crying and highly disturbed eating and crying so anyways um then but i so i was very critical of the stupid melon head but then i i love that

[00:45:30] later you see dylan alone with it talking talking talking to okay asshole i guess this is it yes i'm sorry i let you down i also really really loved the um old school um the video game looking thing of irving dancing on the tv in the background that's nice that's actually a nice touch yeah again yeah i

[00:45:53] want that i would like to have that at my funeral um and i remember too just the fact that they had a funeral for irving made me feel like oh john triturro is like okay that's enough with the little tv thing i'm going back to movies but then triturro showed up again at the end of the episode so that made me feel relieved yes i don't want him to be off the show nope we want him in more than just

[00:46:22] melon form but whatever we'll take whatever verwandle deine leidenschaft mit shopify in ein business und knack umsatzrekorde mit dem check out mit der weltweit besten conversion du hast richtig gehört der check out mit der weltweit besten conversion der legendäre check out von shopify vereinfacht das shoppen auf deiner website bis hin zu social media und überall dazwischen ja das ist musik für deine ohren wie du es auch drehst und

[00:46:50] wendest mit shopify kannst du zu einem echten hip werden starte deinen test noch heute für nur einen euro pro monat auf shopify.de slash rekorde so anything else i want to talk a little bit about mark's reintegration so um just to briefly hit it up we already talked about a couple things but one it's working we know that we've seen it that it's working we also it's more of a slow process than we

[00:47:16] thought maybe right yeah yeah no we're gonna be expected this she knows that it's that it's working but she needs to tweak some more stuff and maybe she'll then do that tonight or maybe tomorrow night uh we know that it's making him sick because he has a little bit of a cough oh yeah uh yeah he's been coughing even seeing him coughing and clocking that he's been coughing his innie and his outie both are coughing um which is um scary what peaty did um you know that might

[00:47:44] make it a little harder for any mark to deal with all this stuff too if he's just feeling out of sorts from this process anyway yeah correct uh he has to uh drink these weird little bottles of goop cloudy yellowish they don't it doesn't look good it really really doesn't look good plus all these pills that are weird and we do see the goop and the um pills in the opening credits um depicted in

[00:48:13] in um the really cool opening credits um a couple of things that may mirror um each other marks any refers to irving and says um he's he's not dead he's just not here and then later on when he's talking to ragabi in his basement and and giving her the groceries um she's looking through gemma's

[00:48:39] things to look for pressure points and she sees the um the box of cremated remains of gemma and says or what they thought was right and it's and she's like they've got people all over the place including in in um funeral homes etc and he says about gemma he says she's not dead she's just not here so he and his innie are starting to use the same language which is interesting um yeah just a sign

[00:49:08] that maybe they're starting more bleed throughs happening more bleed throughs are happening yeah exactly exactly um it was interesting when um miss k uh he at the very end he flashes on miss casey slash gemma and it's miss casey at this point and she says um a couple of things about your audi she says um your audi can parallel park in less than 20 seconds your audi can roller skate with grace

[00:49:37] pays all of his gas and electricity and electric bills in less than three business days listens to music while shaving but not why shout not while showering um prefers two scoops of ice cream in a serving but they must be the same flavor and your audi once caught a butterfly and then she says your audi is going to and then you can't hear it it cuts off die but it right right um but it says um

[00:50:06] uh i read in uh somebody said it's interesting that she uses a lot of numbers um that almost seem like a code can parallel park in 20 seconds pays bills within three days two scoops of ice cream your audi once caught caught a butterfly so 20 3 2 3 2 1 there's your lottery numbers there's your lottery numbers

[00:50:31] so um who knows maybe that's significant maybe it's not significant usually things on the show are there for a reason so i'm wondering if that is going to come back to be significant who knows i'm getting flashbacks of hurley's numbers uh i remember them 4 8 15 16 23 42 yeah very good do you

[00:50:54] remember what they added up to 108 yep number of stitches on a bunch of useless knowledge that's in my head until i die and yet i can't remember really important plot points to this television show that i watched a couple years ago yeah i used to clear out all that mythology of loss that led to nothing so i could focus on severance anyway um i'm not bitter so mark love that show anyway by the way it's one of

[00:51:24] the best shows ever so i do you think that it's a good idea of mark to hide it what's going on from devon or should he just tell her i should tell her she's a good teammate she is a good teammate i don't know why he's keeping this from her maybe because she would have told him it sounds a little too dangerous don't do it especially if he told her anything about pd i'm not sure he ever did yeah

[00:51:47] and about how how pd died from this procedure right and ragabi is you don't know if the same thing's going to happen with him i think he knows that he's being kind of reckless but he's desperate and he just doesn't want to deal with devon telling him not to do it or something the nice thing is he's got ragabi in his basement he seems to be following the procedure yeah the protocol

[00:52:14] that ragabi's developed so and hopefully it's like taking longer than it did with pd because she's decided to be more careful or something yeah exactly exactly but it still seems really really risky um and he does have that cough which is um uh really um starting to bother me and they're making her see like the way she was pounding the machine to get it started last time and now she's like yeah

[00:52:41] we might do it tomorrow night or the next night it sort of seems inexact you know yes more of an art than a science yes i thought so too exactly all right that's a good title for a biography an autobiography so let's see what shall we talk about audi irving no i want to talk about um ricken oh yeah ricken sold

[00:53:08] out is my point so devon re we found out last time that um natalie approached ricken to create a special version of the uur uh edited for the innies and uh we're speculating on whether he would sell out or not you said yeah absolutely he will and you were right and so devon's reading from his new version of the uur it says the workers were diligent focused on the task at hand pleasantly surprised i noticed

[00:53:37] that not a single worker had a watch they simply referenced a large standard clock near the door just hands and numbers and cogs and purpose your sovereign boss may own the clock that greets you from the wall but you get to enjoy it's ticking and thus should be happy and she says that's the literal opposite of what it used to say and it used to say our job is to taste free air your so-called boss rather than sovereign boss may own the clock that taunts you from the wall but my friends the hour

[00:54:06] is yours so yeah that has a little different flavor to it yes yes and he also tells her you know hey they're gonna pay me pretty good money yeah i mean he says he's trying to rationalize it because yes he says it's a trojan's horse yes and uh but i'm like how if you write the book and it goes in there and

[00:54:32] it's saying the opposite of what you mean that's just not sneaking anything in you know maybe he thinks he can put subtle messaging in but it doesn't sound like that of what he really means but he's not really trying to do that i think he's bullshitting himself and devon is delight another thing where you're calling i love i said a minute ago people call out bullshit devon's great at that she's straightforward as always saying okay lumen hurts people you know that and if you want to water down

[00:54:58] your work so they can use it for their fucking propaganda then you're hurting people too right i'm like i love you calls it like it is yeah and then he says this is a fiscal and creative opportunity unlike i've yet seen which means they're giving me a ton of money and a lot of my books will be out there even though it's not really my words i still get the ego gratification and that's worth selling out to me

[00:55:24] i think that's basically yes that is what he would say yeah i yes yeah yeah which is disappointing yeah it's very disappointing i yeah and he's like talking about the life that selling millions of books would afford her basically trying to say this is gonna put us in a whole new level and oh maybe

[00:55:48] that's why they were so focused on devon last season she was really focused on how rich the senator and his wife were yes i wonder if that will start to sway her but it doesn't seem like it is at all at this point not at all no she doesn't like it and she wants to remind him actually lumens the enemy

[00:56:11] and she must know at this point i mean we if you'll recall i don't recall exactly but she knows that does she know that gemma is alive like with like does she know that that's been confirmed no because ragabi told uh mark but i don't think mark has told devon anything that ragabi said right right so i think they suspect it unless i'm misremembering something i think she suspects it

[00:56:41] but they don't know for sure and she where they last left it was mark was trying to burn a message in his eyes that said who is alive so that any could somehow respond back maybe maybe rickin could put a message for for for gemma in his book somehow yeah i mean this story is going somewhere and i have no memory where we're not doing an audi time this time because i think it really turned into my audi that remembered

[00:57:07] i would do it so uh i was also wondering you know well why do you think they called it trojan's horse instead of trojan horse just because of uh rickin's peculiar way of speaking and that's it no other significance to it that he just can't remember that it's actually a trojan horse yeah but i do um yeah i don't know i wouldn't say he can't remember i just think he thinks his way is better something

[00:57:37] like that but um i think there is a lot of hidden subversion it's him the idea of him somehow putting this version of his book in there but it'll be a trojan horse that actually foments rebellion somehow um even though i don't see how but also uh what did we say was the other mark milchick could be a trojan horse if he continues to be dissatisfied with lumen and

[00:58:06] maybe he'll come around mark yeah if he reintegrates yeah yeah he he can wear his innie skin suit and and also be an audi and find gemma i want to see that i want to see audi mark in there um the hang in there poster is sort of a trojan horse horse concealing irving's map

[00:58:31] sure sort of and helena was sort of one yes yes yeah she was uh grok uh yes right okay do you want to talk about either helena or audi irving let's talk about audi irving okay so who's he talking to in the phone booth

[00:58:59] some contacts that's involved with his investigation of lumen right ragabi oh uh maybe right maybe yeah could be could be um do you envy that he's gonna go to this very uncomfortable dinner party with bert and fields um to eat ham and drink expensive french wine uh what

[00:59:26] as as fields sits there grinding on the fact that uh they had to cancel their trip to milwaukee and also maybe it's his uh erotic uh the erotic partner from any world doesn't sound fun no it sounds terrible i mean bert audi bert it was a little weird that he was following

[00:59:49] yes irving around and knows where he lives and everything yes um and it makes me wonder where is he coming from is he being honest that he just wants to know why this guy came and pounded on his door this severed guy uh or is there more to it than that maybe maybe maybe not but what i also wondered is what's really interesting to me about it is here's two audi

[01:00:17] versions meeting each other of who we saw there any versions struck up a romance and they had this great chemistry and so you wonder if the audi versions will also have that chemistry because they're in essence the same person yes and and and then but then there's this added complication that one of them is married so i think that's fodder for an interesting terrible dinner party yeah yeah

[01:00:44] yeah but it's um it's a good story you know i love that i love that bert's partner's name is fields yeah it sounds like uh and they have expensive wine and that somehow fits they like expensive french wine yeah yeah it's perfect and they're gonna eat a ham jenny took me to a two michelin star restaurant

[01:01:10] last night for my birthday oh happy birthday called sons and daughters oh it was so good it was nordic did you uh eat a ham and and drink expensive french wine it was little tiny bites but it was really good and we did drink a lot of wine we got the whole tasting oh was it like a fixed price menu and yeah yeah yeah oh that's heavenly what part of san francisco uh mission oh they just recently they're

[01:01:39] gunning for a third michelin star which is why jenny wanted to go there because she thought oh they're gonna be really you know did they give you like a back massage too they they were really had this whole vibe like this is gonna be a special night for you guys and you know just like very very attentive and you know they gave me a little printed card that said happy birthday jason on it and everything and it was really really nice but it also felt a little bit like all right i gotta match that level

[01:02:09] of excitement or this is gonna feel weird so i was like oh thank you did they do did they serve any anything extraordinarily weird uh no it was all it was nordic so it's a lot of fermented um fish and pickles pickled things and it was really good

[01:02:32] everything was either amazing or real good oh sounds sounds fabulous it was it was pretty nice i don't often get to do stuff like that but i was i thought it was nice jenny i mean jenny i think she was like i want to go to this restaurant it's jason's birthday let's that's a good excuse let's go not as good a reason as any i love it i love it what a great present and it sounds way better than if

[01:03:02] there was also a woman there who uh was your uh inside romantic partner that would have been just a very crunchy experience jenny does have a twin though and she was acting kind of weird last night but whatever when we got back home oh no i'm just kidding you had to cancel your trip to milwaukee

[01:03:27] so helena helena that was the last point i had yeah let's talk about it she um it was good to see you know what what's going on with her on the outside after irving tried to drown her and we see because i'm just curious and we see drummond and natalie and helena in the conference room and basically this is all about like we need to keep mark working this cold harbor thing is important

[01:03:54] and also mysterious and important yes i think they're you know doing a pretty good job of even though you're right that what helena did was awful of still having us feel a little bit empathetic with her because she wants to see her father and drummond says no so you're like ah it

[01:04:16] seems like she's she doesn't have uh control over her life like even here he offers to do um arrange an obligement session for helena yeah she goes i'm fine but to oblige is to make someone legally or morally bound to a course of action so it's it sounds like a mind control kind of a thing and maybe that's what they were going to do to cobell when she ran off give her an obligement session

[01:04:41] it just makes me wonder how much helena's existence has been controlled you know probably a lot yeah probably a lot and if not for that then she would be heli she'd be a lot more like heli maybe um i like that when um drummond well when she asked drummond if she she could be up update her father he says we've decided to spare him knowledge of his contretomps

[01:05:10] after he criticized milchick for using too many big words that's a minor dispute by the way right right right right yes exactly exactly yeah so anyway she they're like we need to get this cold harbor thing so she agrees to go back in even though as you said she calls them fucking animals because her own and he tried to kill her and and so did any irving and it's interesting because

[01:05:37] i think it's very human she she went in there i think intrigued by mark after seeing mark kiss her any and for her the innies aren't even real people so maybe you could sort of excuse but i don't know i don't want to excuse what she did but um anyway um she had a thing for mark but now she's

[01:06:03] calling him fucking animals and i just think that sort of tracks because it just depends on what mindset you're in if you're thinking about the time that one of them tried to kill you then they're fucking animals right right but uh now having said that um uh she's she's definitely pining for mark yeah as as you mentioned um and did you did you clock that as he was leaving at the end of the day

[01:06:29] she was looking at him leaving you could just it was very hard to see he was walking out of the building you see him walk in the lobby and then you see him exit and there's a shot of the back of him leaving the building and then you can also see just make uh the back of her head as she's watching him from above leave the building so yeah she's got something for mark yeah and and really i mean

[01:06:57] since she just had an experience like that where she felt connected to one of the innies then she should sort of make that leap to oh maybe they tried to kill me because i'm enslaving them you know what i mean like they're actually real people so she's got a ways to go right right right

[01:07:23] yeah all right good episode what do you got any notes uh no just that i thought it was funny when miss hwang was gonna play the theremin and she got blocked uh by melchick from playing yeah she's really pissed and uh he's like i think that a little bit of uh theremin goes a long way

[01:07:42] kid speaking of her when heli came out of the elevator and she said greetings heli r or something like that it it seemed pretty apparent that she knows the whole situation i don't know if she already knew that heli was helena but it just made me wonder like she's in milchick's former position

[01:08:08] and we know that cobell is not severed and we're pretty sure milchick's not too right i guess you can't be 100 sure about anything but right i don't think milchick is severed and it made me wonder if miss hwang is severed you know yeah we don't know because i i sort of presumed as a child that she probably was but maybe not it would be weirder if she wasn't almost as a child i could yes right

[01:08:34] exactly exactly yes and she's got um a weird amount of um confidence for yeah and she's very much the whole just poster child of lumen executive yes to yes her attitudes about everything about the innies not being people and everything so i think maybe if she is severed she doesn't realize it or

[01:08:57] something like that you know yeah but i think um like all management she is um not severed but you know with all this talk about like whatever they were going to do to cobell and hear this obligement session it makes me wonder if being severed is not the only way they have of controlling people through

[01:09:24] uh scientific processes and maybe they're all being fucked with somehow not just through propaganda but through some kind of you know like um what do you call it like uh hypnosis or even monkeying with their brains or something i don't know i mean they're in a cold already it's not it wouldn't surprise me one bit if they were if they took that extra step for sure yeah

[01:09:52] uh the other note i had is i was thinking about the mythology of keir egan how he externalized his negative or unhelpful emotions and then conquered them the four tempers yeah and i think that could be interpreted as like i had a tough childhood and it made me feel bad and i never had a chance to deal

[01:10:22] with it in a healthy way because that was looked down upon and so i had to stuff it all down and now i'm projecting all my inner trauma onto the outside world so instead of like processing his own pain he's amassing enough power that he can control others so no one will hurt him that that kind of a thing i

[01:10:44] think that kind of psychosis plays out a lot i suspect many world leaders throughout history have done similar even through to today you know just anyone who just wants to conquer anyone who doesn't show them adulation i think that's what keir egan is all about that seems right i mean we've seen jame

[01:11:10] also jame egan be like really pretty cold with heli yeah um and and now yeah and now he won't talk to her yeah or the board thinks that maybe uh you know let us take care of it you don't need to talk to him yeah the whole thing is very strange i just think like when you have these inner drives a lot of

[01:11:35] times it's uh comes from unprocessed trauma and the way that some people process them is by projecting things onto other people and then punishing those people instead of figuring out how

[01:11:53] to look inside and deal with it you know i do all right let's go into our listener feedback experience

[01:12:36] rachel wrote in and says let's begin with nine seconds to silently remember irving one two three four five six okay so what is this creepy as fuck cold open i have no recollection except i'm certain it has something to do with she says i feel bad for mark heli and dylan for different reasons but i'm really proud of all of them in the meeting with milchick they take no shit demanding answers and calling him out on his

[01:13:05] swedish horseshit heli finding out that helena quote stole her fucking body leaves her feeling violated disgusted and livid dylan sees through the quote elongated cruise voyage line and forces milchick to admit that irving is not coming back dylan says immediately he's dead and calls them murderers even mark is sassy as fuck wow some actual honesty they've come so far but now there are major

[01:13:31] setbacks despite everything they've been through and are now aware of heli seems hurt that mark couldn't tell she was herself she thinks mark is being an asshole and maybe he is but i don't blame him one bit for being hesitant to engage with her again and for being weird yeah i feel like it would be good for him to deal with it a little bit better given some time but it just happened so i don't really blame

[01:13:56] him right now either actually hasn't really had time to process resources does he have yeah i mean honestly but like i said with mark though i do think about how he tends to want to hide from his problems and from pain though audi mark yeah audi mark yeah and they're the same i think i mean essentially yeah all right mark realizes that lumen knows all sees all controls all quote they're smarter than us okay they know everything but did you notice how enthusiastic heli was about doing something

[01:14:26] when she found out that miss casey is mark's wife yep that's the heli we love yeah she's like oh let's figure it out i'll help yeah and hang in there dylan way to put together kid the scene between helena natalie and mr drummond was so delicious helena leader in waiting of lumen refusing to quote go back down there and natalie looking at her in the most patronizing way and saying

[01:14:51] it won't be you it'll be your any you just know helena wants to rip her throat out the board appreciates your sacrifice hope you don't get killed again or attempted murder again yeah mr drummond says quote the work is mysterious and important which is unnerving because i thought that was just something lumen told the innies that's a good point yeah they tell that to each other does that mean no one else knows what it what it's about it's mysterious and important it sickens me that they

[01:15:21] don't think the innies are human helena calls them fucking animals as if the reason for heli and irving being violent is because it's their nature not because they're slaves and a hell designed and manipulated by lumen yeah maybe she you shouldn't enslave them then miss wang needs to be put in her place i think i'll start prefacing all my statements of unsolicited opinion with may i say a question i like how milchik gets back at her for being rude by cutting off her thereum in performance

[01:15:48] if milchik wasn't such a lying bastard i'd feel bad for him he tries to have a real conversation with natalie and the painting about the paintings and she blows them off then he gets reprimanded for poor paperclip usage oh my god do you think miss wang made the contention about him using too many big words oh yeah we didn't really speculate but probably yeah right yes yeah oh yeah i think that definitely yeah mr drummond says it's time to remember these severed workers greater purpose and

[01:16:16] to treat them as what they really are which is chilling because we don't know the greater purpose and what does he mean what they really are he means subhuman does he mean they're just workers a means to an end or something else creepy yeah i don't know i just think he means tools yeah means to an end tools yeah milchik doubles down on being a bastard and we get that crazy tense elevator scene

[01:16:38] with mark whatever you say mr milchik praise cure did you tell her you fucked her audi at or at the york bow what we've never heard milchik speak like that it was chilling well they told him he used two big words these were short words short crude words i'm so disappointed in rick and nat must have offered him a ton of money for his book i mean i know we all know he's full of shit but i wanted him

[01:17:04] to stand for something even if we what he stood for was ridiculous i mean i came into this rewatch thinking it was all pure drivel and i but i think there's a core of a good sentiment there which is don't sell yourself short you know don't sell out i mean really the the message of the you you are is

[01:17:28] not to sell out and now he's just selling out well i i think it's not even maybe it's not just money although i think money is probably a big part of it but also um having uh somebody give him that kind of attention yeah uh a big corporation he lives in the town of cure at least i think he does and and all of a sudden now lumen is interested in his book and saying it's changing

[01:17:54] the lives i mean it probably is like wow it's heady stuff yeah i mean that's still a form of selling out in my opinion even if it's not about the money if it's about the ego gratification yeah but it's not just the money not just the money yeah i think that probably even more is the ego gratification honestly yeah um where was i love the parallel of mark s saying he's not dead he's just

[01:18:19] not here and audi mark saying she's not dead she's just not here yep the bleed through is happening i think mark was a really good husband he doesn't understand why ragabi needs to be living with him but he's like sorry they didn't give have any eggnog you get on snacks you know your wife's favorite snacks and keep them stocked in the pantry probably could have been one of his wellness facts speaking of which holy shit what a way to end the episode my affection index for you both is in the

[01:18:48] high 60s that's pretty good that's where irving is was yeah sure no we have a lot more to do you know what i have lots of incentives and prizes so maybe i can work on getting my my uh affection index higher i'm gonna try rachel okay let's hear a call from eric nordhoff we got a few calls this week guys i don't know if you are going to talk about this because i'm recording this before

[01:19:18] the episode comes out but season two episode five trojan's horse i just want to mention the opening scene and specifically i want to talk about the song that is being whistled by the creepy dentist doctor who is slowly wheeling his cart upstairs grabbing the dental supplies and then

[01:19:45] whistling his way back down those stairs into the dark room and the song being whistled if you haven't talked about this is called the wreck of the edmund fitzgerald by gordon lightfoot from 1975 um it's about an actual shipwreck that happened in the great lakes area i can picture it in the winter when that probably

[01:20:12] happened and it was very probably icy and kind of like the severance environment i love the attention to the detail that ben stiller gives to the show i'm sure that he thought about this and um what's cool i looked this up a little bit and the meaning behind the song the song explores several themes first human fragility i'm reading now from from the internet and from the interwebs it explores human fragility

[01:20:41] against nature lake superior is portrayed almost like a living force um it explores the cost of ordinary work the crew of the of the edmund fitzgerald were not soldiers or celebrities they were working men doing a difficult job the song honors the quiet heroism of everyday laborers hmm sounds familiar innies

[01:21:06] mystery and unanswered questions is the third meaning behind the song part of what makes the song so emotionally powerful is that nobody fully knows what happened the uncertainty creates a ghost story atmosphere number four grief and collective mourning the song feels almost like an old irish or scottish lament it names places whether churches and sailors in a way that turns the event into folklore kind of

[01:21:34] like the myths being told by lumen and they the lyrics express songs that are not just sadness but spiritual confusion in the face of tragedy it's less a song about a shipwreck and more a meditation on loss memory and dignity i just thought that was really cool i wanted to share it with you

[01:22:01] and another great episode guys trojan's horse one uh for the ages of the severance lore i'm excited to hear what you guys talk about and uh i'm excited to be on the uh an upcoming episode with jason it's gonna be fun see you guys yeah he's gonna be on number nine eric number nine eric's from nashville and he's

[01:22:26] he's a musician and he uh knows all about music and he's very sweet yeah he's a good dude all right let's hear from jenny ryan hello jason and karen it's jenny here i just wanted to call or record a message and reflect on the never-ending winter that the folks in who work at lumen seem to be trapped in

[01:22:51] and i actually have a theory that keir the town of keir is in central canada because i'm calling from saskatoon saskatchewan on may 16th in the middle of a blizzard another blizzard wow i'm sorry jenny may keir be with you i don't know what do they say i can't remember anyway oh man this message was good up until the end bye make your make your guide your hand

[01:23:20] on the shovel of snow it's hard to think of praise gear when you're miserable i'm so so sad about your blizzard we just had two really hot days in new england but it's back to being uh typical cloudy new england weather today thank god yeah it's around 65 60 here in san francisco

[01:23:45] oh yeah it's awful yeah same it feels like san francisco summertime outside my window um thanks for writing in jenny thanks jenny you know it's interesting uh yes winter and snow and cold and ice that is for sure severance's motif i wonder if they're ever going to change that yeah um it

[01:24:09] definitely limits i think how they can film uh you know what what do i know you can actually fake a snooze yeah so never never mind but i think it's sort of appropriate because in the corporate world it's like how they try to just stamp out any little humanness you know individuality spontaneity

[01:24:37] it's all about going along with this prescribed program and wearing these masks you know and yeah and but our characters as we've talked about in this episode they're like no we're people and we're gonna swear and we're gonna you know love and all of these kinds of things like life is finding a way to assert itself and maybe a cold winter is sort of like that too you know it's like

[01:25:05] it's just cold and and yet like there's little bits of life that are just still managing to forge their way through it or something like that yeah that's a good point you know what i agree i agree all right one more call and that is from damien hey karen hey jason damien in vegas here uh don't

[01:25:32] leave things to the last minute kids uh or you'll find yourself recording a voice message to your favorite podcast at an airport at 7 30 a.m uh yeah those are uh drunk people and slot machines in the background episode five uh trojan's horse may i say a question this was another one of those slower meaty calm after the storm episodes where we pick through the debris left from the explosion of last week

[01:26:01] uh yeah sorry that was an opinion uh poor heli she's finally back yay and uh no one trusts her mark is being like really cold and mean to her despite her literally not being at fault for what happened and she doesn't even know what happened uh it's great to see her again though after seeing uh helena's

[01:26:25] lesser attempt at heli in the last few episodes uh what is going on with outie helena uh she desperately wanted to uh go back to the sever floor undercover again um i think she longs to be a freer spontaneous version of herself and uh to feel the love and connection that she just doesn't

[01:26:50] seem to be able to have in real life and she's now stalking mark does she actually have some kind of feelings for him or does she just want to be wanted and loved uh it's kind of awesome that this all-powerful woman is basically jealous of her any for being the person she wishes she could be and having what she doesn't um it's just so delightfully heartbreakingly convoluted as marks outie has no idea he just

[01:27:20] has sex with this woman uh speaking of heartbreaking the innies demanded a funeral for irving they got uh they got something poor dylan eulogizing in the way that only he can was amazing that watermelon head sculpture was probably the loudest i've laughed during the whole show so far batshit crazy uh speaking of earth who is he talking to on the payphone is it ragabi uh it's someone

[01:27:48] and he's reporting to them about lumen they try and divert our attention with bert in the car straight afterwards but this is an important question um we also have mysterious dental tools leaving optics and design for the testing floor uh we have no idea where cobelvig is ricken is being a dick uh milkshake is shoveling swedish horse shit and using too many big words and we have marxie and jemma again kinda

[01:28:18] okay quote of the week is a tie uh we have dylan's epic and strangely earnest uh you would have been totally justified to tell me to suck my own fuck and the quieter but still loaded we got a ham from anyway i'm selfishly excited for next week uh this podcast of yours if you're taking feedback i hate it bye

[01:28:46] was that in the episode i i presume it was thanks damien i'd like to see i mean i presume that watermelon was actually carved by an artisan and not some cg thing right and i'd love to see the behind the scenes on that i don't think it was a watermelon i think i if i'm remembering correctly i saw something i listened to a podcast a long time ago

[01:29:10] and i think it was carved out of some other material sculpture type thing still styrofoam be cool yeah styrofoam definitely wouldn't want to eat it then no no but i love that like within a a few minutes they are able to come up with a with i mean lumen has infinite resources evidently yeah

[01:29:33] maybe they maybe they 3d printed it somehow we do print it watermelon all right that is our show thanks for listening everybody thanks everybody we appreciate you guys next up will be severance

[01:29:59] season 2 episode 6 attila if you uh want to write in or leave us a voice message about it you can send it to waffle party at podcastica.com yeah or just go to podcastica.com and check out our other podcasts like we're coming up on the end of the testament season one here and it's been fantastic hit show they just announced season two is coming out nice i'm about to write to the showrunner and see if he'll

[01:30:27] come on again oh nice talk to him and um yeah that's been really it's been a really good experience we're we're the number one testaments podcast so it's been really fun yes yay all right this episode's been made possible also by patreon supporters like maria granada who pledged their support at patreon.com slash jason cabassi thanks so much to maria who's just an all-around kick-ass person and has been around

[01:30:55] for a long time and i very much appreciate her and everyone else because i really wouldn't still be doing this without patreon supporters i couldn't couldn't keep doing all the podcasting because i would have to get another job so i'm really grateful for you guys that do it if anybody else wants to jump in you get to know you're helping keeping the podcasting going you get ad free episodes and then

[01:31:19] occasional other perks we recently did a call-in show that any patreon person was welcome to join in on a few of us shared our vacation photos and stories um jamie a long time listener jamie and i were both in japan she went last year and i was there like a month ago so she was there for star wars celebration so she showed oh my god pictures of that wendy was in spain just showing some amazingly

[01:31:45] beautiful pictures of spain and she went to a bunch of like game of thrones locations and other places penny was in kenya did you know that yeah i've seen pictures amazing petting elephants and stuff and then uh first timer leaf who just met he has family in both sri lanka and dubai so we talked about that a little bit that was really fun that video is in the patreon feed now and we do those

[01:32:11] occasionally and come up with different ideas and people for people all to contribute sometimes we do like music ones or talk about we show funny videos things like that all right that is our show

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