10: "In the Sandbox" (S2E4)

[00:00:00] nd Ah! nd Oh. nd nd Miss me? A little? Did you miss me? Put on fresh underwear before we are. Why? Did you shit your pants? No, in my sexy underwear. Oh. I'll put them on for special occasions tonight. So I'll model them for you later.

[00:00:26] We'll see about that. For the way you look at me. Hello, welcome to the White Lotus, a podcast dedicated to the show, The White Lotus. We're the resort managers. If you need anything, let us know. And please enjoy your stay. Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, hello.

[00:00:59] Ciao everybody, welcome to our podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Jenny. And I'm Randy. This episode, we're covering the White Lotus season two episode four in the sandbox. What does that mean? I didn't even think about that. I looked it up a little bit.

[00:01:14] I think it's a saying where you're like having fun within the confines of wherever you are. So. Oh yeah. And you're like in it, right? Yeah. Like maybe that's like Portia being like, okay, Albie, let's go. I'll hang out with you today. Yep. Yeah.

[00:01:30] She goes in another sandbox. I just thought it was a bunch of children playing. Yeah, yeah. There you go. I think that's what, yeah, what it stems from is when you're a kid, you're just plopped in the sandbox.

[00:01:43] You have to stay in the sandbox, but you have fun there. So that's the impression that I got. Talk about it later, but I totally feel like it affects the, all the young generation, right? Yeah.

[00:01:56] I'm not sure if it's four, but it's a five some because no, no, no, it is four because me as not involved. Yeah. There's Portia and there's Albie and this is that sort of retaliatory play you occasionally see in the sandbox. Oh yeah. Yeah. For sure.

[00:02:15] Somebody kicks sand at Albie in this episode. I mean, I know we're jumping ahead a little bit, but since you just mentioned when Albie's sitting there and he looks up and sees Portia and Jack talking,

[00:02:29] you know, and then Mia and Lucía come up and want to sit down and he's all, oh, I'm sorry. No, no, I'm saving this seat. I admit I would totally have let them sit down. Yeah. Just, and he later kind of goes that way, right?

[00:02:43] When he agrees to go swimming with her, but it takes clearly saying that Portia is really getting along with this guy before he finally does it. I mean, do you think it's just because it's his first experience getting that kind of rejection has recognized?

[00:02:59] He's like he's he's in college. So yeah, he should have had a long ago. Maybe he's been too nice to really get into relationships. So he seems like a really naive guy. Yeah. Right. How old is he supposed to be? He's in Stanford. But he's not done yet.

[00:03:19] Right. So did he just graduate? Yeah, so 20 or something. It'd be 18. Yeah, it could be 18. Yeah. 19. He looks a little older, but yeah. Yeah, he's just older. And I think I'd be a lot more upset if I was a dad of an 18-year-old who I see talking

[00:03:35] to my previous. Yeah. When Dominic sees, so I love that Dominic when when Albie's like, I want to, can I skip dinner tonight? I met a girl and he's like, yeah, go ahead. And he's like good for him.

[00:03:51] And then when he sees who that was great, like supportive dad, awesome. Then when he sees who it is, he looks upset. And I thought that could be a combination or either or of two reasons.

[00:04:01] One, he doesn't want Albie to be like him, you know, but I think it's more about he knows his son is naive. Yeah, I don't want him to get taken advantage of or something like that. Right.

[00:04:14] And then there's the Bert Bert's line there, like father, like father, like son. That's good. Little self-awareness there. Yeah. So did you guys like it? Yeah. Yeah. This is a fun episode. This feels like an episode where the characters are starting to switch up

[00:04:34] their patterns a little bit, which is really interesting to see them doing things that they wouldn't normally do. So we've been well established with them and now they're starting to try out new things, which is interesting to see. That's a good point. Yeah, it is moving along.

[00:04:48] I was going to say, I feel like the season is dragging a little tiny bit even though it's fun to watch. But you're right. There are some shifts happening. So that's good. Yeah. All right. Number one, who wants to go first? I can go first.

[00:05:04] I couldn't find like many overarching themes. I might just go by the story line. Couple or one. Yeah. The most interesting storyline for me in this episode was the little foursome of Portia and Jack Albee and Lucia. That was most interesting to me too.

[00:05:27] I'm so bad at memorizing names. I don't know what it is about the names this season. I don't think it's just because they're Italian, but I don't think about them that I can't hold them either. Yeah. So, you know, as you said, it starts off with, you know,

[00:05:43] still kind of reestablishing who they are. Portia is so neurotic. She's sitting there, you know, opening up to Tanya talking about how, oh, I know I should go for the nice guy. But good. I just, you know, if you can tell she's just not feeling it.

[00:05:59] But, you know, part of me was just kind of like, oh, come on. You know, this is just like, I was going to say, I'm not going to go for this. It's the sandbox in which, you know, you didn't go after the

[00:06:08] nerd that was headed to Stanford back then. You're not going to go after the nerd who's at Stanford or graduated from Stanford if you're not feeling it, right? But I get this though. No, no, no. But, you know, intellectually, she knows she should. Yeah.

[00:06:23] Well, she thinks she should. I mean, it's with this whole nice guy thing. You say nice guy and some people are like, yeah, you want nice, not nice. Like that seems like the opposite. But it's this particular kind of person who is needy and

[00:06:39] is trying to get validation. And that's just not attractive at all because it's like, I don't think I'm good enough to just or I'm afraid, you know, it's meek and weak and everything. And it's the kind of guy though, a lot of times

[00:06:56] you hear a woman when like a guy like this makes a play for her. She'll say, I don't feel. I just don't feel that way about you, but you will make someone else so happy and they will be lucky to have you. Right?

[00:07:08] And because they seem great like on paper, but the spark just isn't there. And that's how Portia feels about Abby. Like Albie, he has great qualities, but the spark isn't there. But she's like, I always, you know, pick the wrong guys or I shoot myself in the foot.

[00:07:22] So I just need even though I'm not feeling it, I know he's great and I'm just going to go for it. Yeah. Yeah. He's the type of guy who sets himself up with like, oh, I have a nice car. I dress nice.

[00:07:36] I have a yeah, I'm smart, but it's like I've I've collected all of these things and now you should reward me for having those things by wanting to be my girlfriend. And it's like, yeah, there's there's a little bit more to it.

[00:07:49] But to be fair to him, like another one thing that a lot of these quote nice guys have that I don't feel like Albie has is they feel entitled. They feel like why you should like me like you just said, but I don't get that vibe from him.

[00:08:05] He's not like resentful that she's not liking him. He's hurt, but he doesn't seem like he's resentful. Could also be like four or five years from now. That's when he's fully into his nice guy person. Yeah. This is the origin of his his supervillain. Story.

[00:08:27] I mean, I'm not seeing any of this as I do not represent all womanhood, but you know, I see a nice guy not with the capital N and capital G, but with the small N and the small G he's like straight out of college.

[00:08:41] He's California raised Stanford educated. So you know, he's been like thrown with all of these like this is what you should do. This is what you should do. You're a good guy. This is what you should do to women and family. Yeah.

[00:08:54] Whatever has been pouring into his head since he was 12, right? He apologizes for himself all the time. Right. And he even asks Lucia, can I come? Yeah. He's got permission. Yeah. Yeah. He asks and then he lets her know again. Is that bad? Oh, hello.

[00:09:13] I mean, just going along with everything else. May I please come now? Yeah. Like he's always asking for permission. Oh. Yep. And Jack is not. So this is why there are no nice guys. Guys already making fun of them too. That's the theme of Albie.

[00:09:32] I mean, you got to. Yeah. I know you don't see it, Jenny, but I mean, do you kind of see that's the whole point of why Portia isn't into him? Like what I see is he does have a savior complex. Right. And there's that.

[00:09:47] A lot of nice guys have that too. Yeah. Right. And you're saying nice guys are the capital N capital G. Yeah. Quote. Yeah. Yeah. Because a lot of the nice guys aren't actually nice. They're trying. They're like Randy was saying doing something, thinking that if they

[00:10:07] act this way, they'll they deserve to get something. But underneath it's all just to get something and they're actually mad. Yeah. Right. I don't have an interesting personality and they're not fun to be around. And that might be the capital N capital G in which someone is

[00:10:22] kind of fronting it, but they actually have this deep vacuum inside instead. But I do think Albie is a nice guy with a small N and he's just he's just trying to do the right thing. He does have a savior complex, but a lot of people do and

[00:10:37] men or women, whether they're like joining missions and going to convert people who don't want to be converted. You know, Albie seems like actually a guy that I wouldn't mind hanging out with. So yeah, he's kind of in the middle.

[00:10:52] He's not like the in cell type or that became an in cell later, but started out trying. But he's also not like he's not comfortable in his own skin. Well, you know, he wants this, you know, he wants to save

[00:11:03] people, but he doesn't know enough about the world to know to kind of recognize the right situations to save people, whether they're actually looking for saving or anything. He can tell that. I mean, he actually likes Portia. You know, it was surprising to me because the interactions

[00:11:18] between them have been so awkward that I would have thought anybody in the past would have been like, OK, that didn't work out moving on. But no, no, no. When he looks up and sees that she's with Jack, he is genuinely upset in a way she's not.

[00:11:31] I mean, like when she sees him with someone else, she just kind of like, oh yeah, you know, that wasn't I kind of fucked that up. But oh well, look at Jack. I do think she feels a little bit bad in that situation.

[00:11:43] Yeah, things happen, but I do think there is a little bit of I don't think she necessarily likes him, but she's like, I don't want to hurt him either. No, later when Jack says you want to make him jealous

[00:11:53] at the bar, she goes, I don't want to make him jealous. Yeah. She kisses Jack anyway because she's caught up in the moment, but I really think she didn't want to make Albie jealous. She didn't want to hurt him. Yeah, so I got it interesting that he was

[00:12:07] that hurt because I was not personally, I don't know. I'm not a man so I don't know what is the track about Portia at this point right now. Her fashion sense is ridiculous. I mean, that's a blueprint. I love it. I mean, like all her clothes are uncomfortable.

[00:12:23] Have you ever worn crop tops or those shrugs? Oh, I mean, who is that going like, who, oh, I mean, who wears that? She's got this floppy hat, nose ring, two choker necklaces, the crop polo shirt, but like sweats and I it's a style that is totally unique.

[00:12:42] But I think it's adorable. It's a little like frumpy chic or something. Yeah. Frumpy chic is a good definition. I love it. Well, I love it just has a cuffed wear. Yeah. Well, I think with her and Albie, it goes into the title of being in the

[00:12:57] sandbox like they were as far as they knew until this episode, they were the other person they could have any attraction to at this resort. So I think Albie to a degree was also thinking like, well, she's who's here. So I'm going to interact with her.

[00:13:14] He hasn't like bumped into like five other young women that he could have this type of relationship with. So I do think while I agree, he did probably develop some feelings for her. It's also a scarcity issue. So now that there's two guys at the resort,

[00:13:33] he's suddenly like, oh, I don't, I'm not special. I don't get the thing anymore. Like so seeing her with Jack would probably make him upset. And this is a kind of a side, but I mean, I know she's going after Jack, but I

[00:13:51] probably would have gone after Albie, Jason. So for this situation, this nice guy thing that part of me, you know, when you say that, I'm just like, no, I think most people would go after it. I mean, I can't understand a single thing Jack is saying.

[00:14:07] I'm just like what? You mind what? I mean, that's not conducive to a flirty relationship. So when Albie's sitting there looking up at them and then he sees them kissing, right? And he's had his girl taken away. I mean, that sounds like he never had her,

[00:14:27] you know, everybody has agency, but the girl that he thought he had a chance with and he did, right? She was going to spend the day with him, but she found someone else she liked better and now she's with him. And just watching that is so like,

[00:14:41] ah, fuck man, I have totally been Albie in that situation. But I've also been Jack. And one of those is, I may take this out of the podcast if you don't like it, Jenny, but I met you. You were being a Jack.

[00:14:58] So Jenny, did you understand anything Jason said when you first met him? Oh God, our meaning story is... We don't have to get it. Not like that. Shall we go on to the next point? Well, I think this leads into one of my points,

[00:15:21] which is Jack and I don't like him. I think we're sort of like circling that. In the context of the story, I like him for Portia. Like I like that she's found this guy who's going to give her the adventure that she wants and is as forward

[00:15:42] as she's kind of looking for in this. But I still don't like him. He comes off as, I don't know, I do. She is like the best when they're at the bar. He orders two gin and tonics and then two Jaeger Meisters, which is already a bro.

[00:16:01] E like if you order shots of Jaeger Meister, I'm stereotyping you. But he's also very much like I'm giving you so much alcohol. Like he's all things that she seems to be kind of into and she's able to like counteract it.

[00:16:17] She says, no, just one gin and tonic. But his everything about his just order and personality rubs me the wrong way. He's overly confident, but I can't tell if there's anything substantial behind it besides just looking kind of good.

[00:16:36] I would say in my opinion he's one of those guys where if he's nice, he's attractive. If he's a jerk, he's an unattractive person. He's always right on the line. Yeah, so there's that scene in which he's like, I'm wearing sexy underwear and I was just like,

[00:16:51] okay, this is that sexual harassment situation in which if you're into him, you're like, oh, and if you're not, you're like, HR, hello. The same words can be said by someone you're, you just said this, but that you're attracted to and it's great.

[00:17:11] And the same exact words by someone you're not attracted to and it seems like harassment. But also communication is way more than words too. Yeah, body language. It's body language and with that there's such good actors, both of these because when they're flirting together

[00:17:27] and they're looking straight into each other's eyes and they're kind of laughing at it like the ridiculousness of it, you know? And she's got, she's kind of putting the brakes on like, oh, I don't know what you mean or we'll see about that.

[00:17:41] I'll just have the gin and tonic. But he's kind of pushing, but in a playful way and when she puts the brakes on, he doesn't protest. But she loves it, right? And she's been looking for some excitement. She wants, I mean, it sounds horrible.

[00:17:56] She wanted it, but she said, I want someone to throw me on the bed at a talent show. She said she wanted something like this, but she's also, so she's like on a roller coaster and she's trying to mediate the speed.

[00:18:10] But she needs to feel like she's in control. Like she can stop it if she wants to, but she doesn't want it. She likes that he's a little faster than she is and then look where they end up at the end of the night. So it's really interesting.

[00:18:24] But I mean the body language thing, like there's a sparkle in their eyes and she's got a smile even when she's saying, well, we'll see her. I don't know about that. So there's a lot of communication going on there just besides what they're saying to each other.

[00:18:37] It was good to see her smile and laugh. Yes. Agree. She was actress, yeah. She had been lifeless. Like the life had been sucked out of her and now as soon as she meets him, it's like she's glowing.

[00:18:49] Yeah, which is why I'm happy for her in the episode, but I'm still like that guy doesn't deserve anything. I don't know what it is. We haven't been shown anything in this episode, but I'm just like, I don't like him. He's too confident.

[00:19:02] Maybe I'm too on Albie's side a little bit where I'm like, poor Albie. But then also when Albie goes up and introduces himself, he says, hi, I'm Albie. And the guy just says, I think it's like a British saying, all right, Gies.

[00:19:17] And he doesn't introduce himself back or anything. He's not even like a little friendly to Albie. So it seems like one of those things where it's like, if he was nice like that to everybody, then maybe I could be like, all right, cool.

[00:19:30] But it's like, no, this is, you're clearly just want to flirt with this girl. And I don't know, he's not a guy I would want to hang out with. It's interesting because I used to feel more like what you're saying around guys like this, but watching this episode,

[00:19:46] I didn't totally feel that way when Albie comes in. I mean, if I was talking to a girl and we were kind of our woman, I should say, and we were, and I wasn't married. And we were kind of having this flirtatious experience

[00:20:01] and then some other guy comes in and goes, hey, like that. I might be a little like put off to you, like, what's this? Who are you? You know? Yeah. So I don't know, but I just thought if you hear just what he says,

[00:20:15] he seems douchey, but if you look at how they're kind of laughing about it, then it seems kind of fun to me. Yeah. That's the internal conflict for me is I'm like, yes, I like this interaction. No, I know. I feel like I'm wrong actually.

[00:20:31] It's just still that feeling where I'm just like, I don't like you, Jack. I think he's douchey. But the way I see it is like he met Portia. They hit it off like fine, whatever. You can serve each other, have fun, go in the corner, make out,

[00:20:48] get a room. I mean, Jack, so what Jack has is that Albie doesn't is he's confident he's very comfortable in his skin. He does not apologize for himself. He says what he actually wants, which is Albie does not.

[00:21:10] He'll pretend not to want something because he doesn't want to make someone else uncomfortable and Jack won't do that. And so he's just more in a weird way, actually more trustable than Albie. True. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:28] And he does say pretty early on or when he tells her, oh, I put on my sexy underwear and I do like that. Her response is why did you shit yourself? Yeah. She's another her putting the brakes. Yeah. Yeah. She can slow it down a little. Yeah.

[00:21:44] But he's very forward. He's like, hey, I've put something on that I want to show you later. And he said, I didn't come here to hang out with old ladies or something like that. Yeah. And drink tea. Yeah.

[00:21:54] And all of their wants are being voiced in like playful ways and there is some like push and pull, which feels good for Portia for sure. Yeah. I mean, that's a fun little exchange right there. Like, can you imagine her saying, oh, did you shit your

[00:22:09] pants to Albie? You know, Right. No. He would have been so self conscious because he can't handle it and she knows that. Right. Yeah. And that's like I was saying, was it on this podcast? You know, this friend who was so rude that it put me off.

[00:22:25] But after a while I kind of dug it because then it gave me a license to be rude back to him and right then I can't with anybody else. And that was kind of fun. Yeah. It's sort of a version of that.

[00:22:35] And I know this guy that you're talking about. It was the same thing for me. I was just kind of like, oh, you're probably, you know, these days people would say he's on the spectrum. But you know, back then it was like, oh yeah, you want

[00:22:47] to talk about that? That's him. Oh, by the way, did you know something's wrong with your why? And there's no filter. No filter, no anxiety, no, you know, offense, you know, you can say whatever and it's very free. Yeah.

[00:23:07] Jack also hears her say or he, I feel like he hears her saying she wants adventure and he tells her, I can give you adventure. So not only is he saying what he wants, but he's also saying what he can offer at the same time

[00:23:21] where as Ali was not doing it. And you believe him. Yeah. Yeah, like confident. Obnoxiously confident. Yeah. And he's also sexual, you know, he's like when she asked him what Polaro most like, he says they party in the street, they fight in the

[00:23:40] street and they fuck in the street. It's my kind of town. Yep. Just putting right out there. And you know, she happens to be looking for that. And maybe he can sense that vibe. But if he was talking that way to someone who

[00:23:53] wasn't looking for that, who knows if he would talk that way? Maybe he wouldn't. Maybe he's a good way to people. Yeah. Or but if he did then she might be super offended by him. Right. Yeah. He might be really good having tea with little old ladies.

[00:24:06] He might. Yeah, I know. He does actually, he seems like he probably would be really good at it and be like a little flirty with them enough so that they like enjoy it. But he's not being serious and yeah, God damn. He doesn't use the word fuck. Yeah.

[00:24:21] Perfect freaking jack. I hate this guy. But you know, we haven't really seen him around anyone else. So we don't know. Yeah. We need more information to really figure it out. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. All right. My turn. Yes. Okay. Let's talk about the other group that

[00:24:39] was pretty interesting. Mia Giuseppe, Lucia Lucia and there's the theme I found in this episode was sexual guilt or shame, which is another aspect of that can come with sex. When Lucia and Mia come out of while they get kicked out of Cameron's room

[00:25:00] and they look kind of run down. I mean, they didn't actually look that run down to me, but yeah, Valentina. They were barefoot, which is a little like walk of shame. Their faces look. Oh God. I mean, the party just killed everyone like Ethan's throwing up and yeah,

[00:25:17] if we compare them to how Cameron and Ethan are feeling, we assume they're also feeling similar. And I loved when Valentina goes, well, sure. No, yours fresh as a couple of roses. I love their like ability to exist in the same world, but like really

[00:25:31] still not like each other. I mean, I think it's a good idea to have a couple of people who are like, oh, I love that girl there. Yeah, absolutely. And Lucia, so Lucia, sorry. She says she feels like shit and I can't keep living like this.

[00:25:47] And also to Mia, I don't want to drag you into my shame. Like she I guess Mia maybe did have sex with Cameron too. Yeah, that's a question mark for sure. It seemed like it because she's like, you know, I get it. Like having sex knowing what you're

[00:26:00] going to get out of it is not so bad. So it's like she just maybe did it and now that's how she feels. And she tried it out. It wasn't so bad. And anyway, when she's Lucia saying she feels like shit, Mia saying

[00:26:13] that's just the drugs from last night talking and I've had my ecstasy phase years back and I know what that feels like. You're like, oh God, you feel, I mean it's emotional. You feel like kind of down or blank. I know that feeling.

[00:26:28] But I do also think that Lucia is with what happens in this episode that she really just doesn't want to be done with this. It was kind of a big flip there because before she just seemed like, I know what I want and I'm proud of it now.

[00:26:40] She's like, I hate this life. But she wants enough money to open a store and that reminded me a little bit of Belinda where she feels stuck in her job at once doing something else. Belinda from season one. So anyway, but Mia is like, they've switched, right?

[00:26:59] Lucia used to be like, you have to be pregnant. Now she's like, I don't like this anymore. And Mia is like, oh, I'm all for it. And Lucia is like, no, no, no. And so that's another she's feeling guilty that she dragged her friend into this.

[00:27:10] And Mia says she doesn't care about money. She just wants to sing. Maybe I should just fuck the piano player which is not funny right now. Lucia is like, no, no. And so she goes to Giuseppe and like let's go right now and they go to the church

[00:27:25] which I totally love. Because he's like, oh, no one comes here. I'm like, yeah, that's not what people are here for. No. And then the whole guilt shame thing here, Mia, even though Mia's into it, she doesn't want to be looking at these religious paintings on the ceiling.

[00:27:41] Yep. Which earlier Lucia noticed eyes maybe the Virgin Mary, I'm not sure on another painting and she crossed herself. And then later when Mia leaves Giuseppe alone in the church to go get the Viagra, he's like, he was just all excited for sex.

[00:27:58] But now he's like, oh, I'm in a church and he just crosses himself. Yeah. So she goes to get the Viagra and she got some pills from Lucia's purse. And then when Lucia is out on the beach, out in the water with Albie and she's

[00:28:14] like, is this the Viagra or whatever? That was, we call this the Department of Suspension of Disbelief segment in Walking Dead where it's like really, she couldn't hear her. That doesn't seem real. Does everyone know that it's little and blue? Yeah, well that too. That too.

[00:28:33] I do feel like when you are in the water there is a little bit of a sound barrier but I think what falls into the suspension of disbelief is that she ran all the way down to this beach and then got 20 feet away.

[00:28:47] And that's where she was like, I'm not coming any closer. Just go. Just fill the gap. It was weird, but it needed to happen so that she could give in the wrong pills and he could have a heart attack. And I love she gives them the pill

[00:28:58] and expects them to have an erection immediately. You idiot. Yeah, he's like, wait a minute. And then they're waiting there and it just feels, when they're just sitting there waiting you definitely feel like we're in a church. Yeah, yeah. Should we pray?

[00:29:14] Yeah, like what do we do to the past of time? And then he has the heart attack and I thought it was darkly funny that he fell at the piano and he's like, get the priest and she's like, no, not the priest. Don't die.

[00:29:27] And you'd hope that's at least a little because she hopes he's okay and also worried that she caused this, but I think it's completely because then who'll help her become a singer? Yeah, right. That's why she's saying that. And then here's Cameron looking over

[00:29:40] at it and then he just goes for food dinner please. It's so dark. I kind of just went through that and gave my thoughts. Yeah. So my thoughts on that collective are also just random thoughts like Lucia is saying, I don't want to be a millionaire.

[00:29:59] I just want to open a shop and coming from America, I'm like, you need to be a millionaire. Yeah. You need to be a millionaire. Yeah, right. You have to stop it. The rest of the activity. Even if it's a different,

[00:30:10] you just need to be a thousand there. But yeah. I would imagine that street she wants to open the shop on to looked pretty pricey. So yeah. I thought, I think it's a good idea to I thought, you know, it's interesting that, you know,

[00:30:25] there's a church because it's an ex comment in this four seasons. And then when Lucia had said earlier about how everyone's have hotels were created to have sex, I was like, how much sex is happening in this ex comment, much less than a chapel? Yeah.

[00:30:43] Already seen quite a lot of it. Yeah. And I presume the people who are in Sicily are still being raised fairly religiously, fairly Roman Catholicly. So yeah, I think still being in the in a church like that might have interesting feelings of you having sex. Yeah.

[00:31:05] And that just points to how there's all these conflicting drives at play. And especially when it comes to sex and, you know, with Mia, she might not even think about her religious upbringing, but she's right there in a damn church. Right? No escaping it. Yeah.

[00:31:23] I mean, it can be shocking. I'm not religious, but I went to this, you know, downtown L.A. dance party once and I walked in and I was like, oh, it's being held in a D consecrated church. Right? It's got mood, which makes it exciting. Yeah.

[00:31:37] You start thinking about your actions more. Right. And they're having like this pseudo simulated orgy on the front. And I'm like, I'm not religious, but this just seems wrong. But it's got the song that you want at a dance party like this.

[00:31:54] I know they're doing this on purpose and it's still affecting me. I can feel it. Yeah. So that was interesting. And also, um, I just thought what I loved about the scene is here's an old guy taking care,

[00:32:07] taking advantage of a young lady who wants something that he's promising he can give her, which later we wonder whether that's actually something he can give her. Seems like not. Yeah. But it's just such a beautiful poetic justice scene because

[00:32:20] he's like trying to take advantage of her for what happens is because kind of her naivete, she wins over him because she gives him some random medication that like makes him collapse. And it's certainly. I like how she picks out two pills and she's like,

[00:32:36] I don't know which one is which. I'll just give it both. Yeah, right? And also that he's so trusting that this girl, he doesn't know just hands him two pills and it's like, one of them is probably Viagra take them both. And she's like, yeah, sure.

[00:32:49] Like I look at Advil like really closely before I take it just to make sure that's what it is. I mean, when you're in a position where you're about to do what he's about to do, you might not be thinking straight. Yeah.

[00:33:04] Although it's not like all the blood wasn't in his brain. So that's true. Yeah. But I think, you know, one reason why Lucio was kind of depressed the next day is besides probably the drug hangover is Cameron shorted her. He's like, oh, I'll get you the rest really.

[00:33:24] Yeah. That is a shitty thing to happen. You put out the goods and they're not paying you. And I think it's suspecting that too from Giuseppe because she's like, so you're going to introduce me and he's like,

[00:33:38] you could tell in her face that she's like, oh, you fucker. Yeah. But Cameron not having the money, it makes me wonder if he's totally full of shit too. I mean, the way he played it, it seemed like, oh yeah, he just didn't have the cash.

[00:33:54] It'll be fine. But I just think there's a fairly good chance that he's a total psychopath and just comes off in a believable way the same way when he was with Ethan saying, yeah, you should invest with me.

[00:34:06] You know I can make you money that seemed very believable, but maybe he's desperate for money. Yeah. Yeah, he doesn't actually have the rest to give to her. So yeah. Yeah, that's a very good point. And I think as a sex worker, she's probably been in that

[00:34:20] situation before and being paid, he's like 30% chance at this point. Yeah, right. He's just going to leave it at the front desk for her. Like, yeah. Also, this is like the second time this week she's basically been like, shoot out of a room where she,

[00:34:39] I think in her mind, at least with Dominic, she said, oh, I thought we were going to spend the week together. And in reality, she's been forced to like hide out out at the beach. Granted it's a nice place to hide out.

[00:34:52] And then she's pulled in for the evening and then the first thing in the morning, like they barely can get dressed before they're being kicked out of the rooms. Now I'd probably guess having that happen to you twice, you might just be like, I don't know.

[00:35:05] I don't want to feel like this every other morning. Yeah, like. That makes a little more sense why suddenly she's like, I need to get out of this. Yeah. She thought she was going to have a place to stay the whole week. Yeah, exactly. And now she's like.

[00:35:17] She's not from this town. So let me just say being in the service industry sucks. Oh my God. Like, you know, she's having at a different level because she's a sex worker, but things like this happen a lot in the service industry.

[00:35:31] It's part of the reason why I went into the field. I did and went to, you know, professional school and now have a nice, nice professional job was because I was in the service industry and I was treated like shit. Yeah.

[00:35:46] And I just remember the moment I was like, fuck this. You know, and her job is like being stuck with your customer for 12 hours and you're also their therapist. Like it's got to be draining. I mean, it's not fun.

[00:36:06] I'm going to tell the story and I may ask Jason to cut it out. But like the moment I decided to go to medical school was that summer when I was working as a stripper and basically someone, you're not supposed to touch the girls.

[00:36:20] They can touch you but not vice versa. And I turned around and this guy grabbed me very like Trump. Oh, no. And I just turning around and like throwing his money back and like stomping off. And that's the moment I decided to go to medical school.

[00:36:37] But I was like, there is industry jobs granted in a talkless bar. Suck. Yeah. So when Lucia, you kind of get her, huh? Oh, I totally get her. It's just kind of like you can only, you can, I'm sure it happens a lot at, you know,

[00:36:52] at a Starbucks but to a much lesser degree when it has to do with your bodily autonomy and just your sense of self-respect and value. It's a, especially the amount of important society puts on what you are offering, right?

[00:37:10] Then we're going to be kind of like treated as nothing. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty fucked up. Yeah. Yeah. Especially having those jobs generally be considered, I don't know, something that you don't talk about in casual society or like they're always somewhat hidden.

[00:37:31] It means that you're really the one who has to deal with the problem entirely on yourself. You don't have the backing of society which like makes it even that much more stressful. So yeah. Yeah. And it's dangerous for Lucia. I mean, you're in a strip club.

[00:37:44] You have the security guard who can throw out the asshole, right? But this is like, this is like, you know, the Craigslist, you know, this is something you're on your own. Yes, you don't have to pay out 40% to the door but you're on your own.

[00:38:03] So yeah, do we believe Giuseppe has these connections because... No. He's a singer at a hotel. At the Forster Hotel. It is a Forster Hotel. I mean, the way he's like, she's like, so when you get to introduce me to these people and he's like, what people?

[00:38:23] There's like a 5% chance maybe that's the drugs but yeah, it seems very obvious that he doesn't have people. He's like, oh my piano teacher is Senora Luci who's in Dube. Yeah, she wrote a recommendation when I applied for this job.

[00:38:43] I do like that Burt had a reason finally to really dislike the piano singer because he's so messed up. And I also like that he and Dom are getting along while making fun of him. It kind of brought them together for a moment.

[00:38:59] I don't know why it's so funny to me but when he's like, oh, he's worse than ever today. It just makes you laugh. He's got to be a heart attack bitch. Well, you know, I remember the first episode I

[00:39:12] heard just that I was like, why are they making fun of his playing? He seems OK. But then the second episode, he really either like they messed up in the first episode and actually accidentally filmed him playing. All right. The second episode, he was bad.

[00:39:25] And then this one obviously was bad. But I think I think he is just OK but Burt wants the best. I also think Burt probably prefers a female singer. I don't know. That's just a suspicion. Yeah, yeah, that's a good suspicion. All right.

[00:39:44] I think that was, well, I'm lost actually. I think that was you and then Jenny had some stemming off of that. So it's Jenny your turn. Oh, OK. So the second group, second for some is the Ethan Cameron Daphne Harper collective.

[00:40:02] So why do I get a sense that the morning after was very similar back in college between Ethan and Cameron? I mean, it was a sort of relaxation where they're kind of staring at each other. Was it a bed or something like that?

[00:40:18] And he's like, oh, I want to come in you Ethan. And Ethan's like, I'm throwing up and Cameron has to sort of like your style just look on his face. It's another domineering tactic in my opinion, even though it's funny. Yeah.

[00:40:34] To say I want to be inside you. Like it made me want to punch Cameron to the face. When he when he lays down on the bed, he goes, oh Jesus Christ, man. And I can't tell if he's saying like it.

[00:40:47] The way Ethan feels is like Jesus Christ. I feel awful. I can't tell if when Cameron's laying down and saying Jesus Christ, if he's just like that was an amazing night. Yeah. Yeah. So I was just like, you know, because they've been kind of like not very close

[00:41:05] up to this point. But to this point, you know, at this point I was just like, oh, you can tell they're revisiting some college experiences. And then the scene in which they both get see, I mean this is totally random, get seated for breakfast.

[00:41:20] And I just saw that they had the corner balcony overlooking the ocean. And for some reason it just reminded me of that Larry David episode in which only the good looking people get put in the front of the house. Such a great episode. So funny.

[00:41:37] The ugly people, fat people are put in the back and I was like, you never get so see. I want that quarter ocean seat. If you guys haven't listened to it, you haven't seen that. I recommend seeking it out. It's so funny. Yeah.

[00:41:55] And then of course the story moves along, right? We've set who these characters are as well as we've set them out and now we're mixing it up. Now we have Harper finding the condom wrapper and now she's finally freaking out the way she did it when Ethan turned

[00:42:09] her down in the negligee. And it was a great little right after that, the music, the White Loose music in a really disturbing mode with like underwater and then it was just such a great way to give you the feeling of how Harper's feeling right now.

[00:42:25] Yeah, like she can't even hear things around her probably or just like you're hearing the wishy sound that you hear in your head when you're underwater. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. So you can so yeah, so things are things are moving. Do you think directs sponsored this

[00:42:43] because they really held on to that like logo for a moment? Directs the condom for cheaters. Well, can you name any condom brand? Trojan? Oh, yeah. That's the only other one I can name. Right. Randy rattles off like five. Magdum skins. A scared Japanese brisk.

[00:43:16] I mean, I would have thought Cameron would have had a nice collection of the height you know. I had import ones. Lamp skin. I don't know. Yeah, I hope that might be. Yeah. Got the Dollar Tree one. Extra thick. The logo in Italian bread because of the traveling.

[00:43:38] Tire thick. With threads. For no one's pleasure. All right. Harper's, you know, she's she's kind of in shock. She doesn't know what to do. And it's true. I mean, I'm not sure, you know, what I would do when I immediately confront or see like how it plays out

[00:44:01] so I can try to get more information. She's obviously giving him lots of chances to tell her what happened. And he's not taking them. But the whole episode she doesn't reveal that she knows, which is interesting. Right. And I can kind of tell trying to make

[00:44:17] figure out what's happening, but at the same time being wanting to be like, what's going on? You know, you're at that like 10 area of tension of like I'm investigating. I'm investigating. She doesn't want to show her cards either. Yeah. Yeah. And he knows that she knows something

[00:44:34] but has no idea how much. And so yeah, it's like, I need to get him to say something or because if I just say, I found this condom, then he might be able to come up with a story for that. Yeah.

[00:44:46] So she doesn't want to show her cards. She's got to catch him in a lie some how to prove that something happened. Or he could have just said like, oh, you would not believe what happened. Cameron brought in two prostitutes and they front on the couch.

[00:45:00] And I would have explained it, especially since he shouldn't know that she has a condom wrapper. Yeah. So if he had like come up with that, then things probably would have come down a bit, but he doesn't. Although I also feel like saying like,

[00:45:15] yeah, no, he had two prostitutes and I was just in the room when it happened. I feel like she'd still be like, is that really all that happened? I don't know. I mean, he had a kind of chance. Oh, sorry. It's row code, I guess.

[00:45:27] But he had a chance because she was like, the shoe was saying like, oh, I hear he cheats. And you know, and I know it and his wife knows it and everybody knows it, right? Yeah. You know, he could have said something

[00:45:38] at that point, but he did it. Yeah. Well, he, I mean, he didn't cheat, but he, it's still not cool to have a camera and have. Yeah, I'm saying, but Ethan doesn't want to say what happened because yes, he didn't have sex with Mia,

[00:45:54] but he did party with two prostitutes. Yeah, all night. That's not cool either. Yeah. And there's probably some like, some missing time in his mind as well. Like he might not entirely know what happened. Yeah. That's true. Oh, and then kind of like minor part

[00:46:13] of the quartet is, you know, Harper starts talking about Daphne to Cameron. She's being, she is being, you know, part of a marriage. She's being very open and honest about her, you know, not super nice girl thoughts towards Daphne. But there's definitely a lot of like, see,

[00:46:33] I told you they're totally messed up and we're okay, right? Yeah. Well, it was interesting because you see Harper with Daphne last episode and she's a little like, wait, really we're staying here. Like I don't know, but she doesn't come right out

[00:46:51] and say, hey, I don't like that you're pushing me into this. You know, she's just kind of, okay, fine, we'll go. I'll go along and then they get chatty and she does the edible. So she's like trying to enjoy yourself.

[00:47:07] And then as soon as she gets to Ethan, you wouldn't believe it. Like she kidnapped me and their marriage is a whole sham. And doing exactly what Daphne said, like women just pretend to be your friends, but then they talk shit about you behind your back.

[00:47:21] Exactly what Harper did. Pretended to be her friend, talked shit about her behind your back. Harper's fucking two-faced, man. Although the other question would be, does Daphne interact with every friend that way? Like she was fairly manipulative in that. So it's like.

[00:47:37] Even saying that, like I know I can trust you because most women talks just pretend to be friends. But I think she's saying that as a manipulative tactic because she suspects that Harper's like that. So she's trying to push her into being trustworthy or something. Yep.

[00:47:53] All sorts of pushing left and right here. Yes. Among everyone really. Nobody's innocent. And I was looking at that. I'm not a beautiful, super wealthy woman. So I don't know about like, you know, I don't think I've had the situation in which women

[00:48:12] are like being catty with me against me or I'm catty. I don't think I've been catty. I don't think you're like that at all. Right? So, so I mean, I feel kind of sorry for Daphne. If that is true.

[00:48:27] It could be just because of her position and her looks that that does happen. I don't deny it. I think it's quite possible. So, but you know, maybe she can trust Harper because Harper is now hot and wealthy too. But possibly messed up husbands.

[00:48:50] I mean, Harper's the worst. Like she's the platonic ideal of exactly what Daphne's talking about. Yeah. Daphne doesn't. It's not good for her and Daphne, but I do feel like for Ethan and Harper, it's maybe strong because she's like,

[00:49:05] you're the one I'm going to be super honest with all the time. That's true. But Ethan is not being honest anymore. Ethan's even worse than Harper in my opinion. Ethan chose Cameron over Harper, the random college roommate. I know.

[00:49:20] Just to clarify, I think Ethan should have told Harper what happened the night before. But I can see from a story point of view that he's probably hoping she just never finds out versus him having to tell her something that's going to cause an issue.

[00:49:36] Like I can see the thought process there, but I still think he should tell her what had happened. But yeah, that's not as interesting a story to watch. He's not very skilled in the interpersonal department. I mean, the minute it's something like, don't tell anybody.

[00:49:54] This is where Ethan should have been like, sorry, man. Spousal privilege. Yeah. Yeah. He should have told, but I would say a good percentage of men wouldn't. Yeah. Because yeah, he just doesn't. I mean, he may, I mean, he is guilty to an extent.

[00:50:13] Like I said, it's not cool what he did, but also he just maybe feels like she won't be able to understand or I don't know. What am I saying? I mean, he just doesn't want to fuck up his marriage. Yeah. She's anxious, right? Like there are certain marriages.

[00:50:30] I presume like if you told me that you had gone way too drunk and your friends had hired prostitutes for someone who reasoned out just be like, okay. But that's me, right? I'd be like, yeah, I had sex with both of them, but I didn't like it.

[00:50:46] I have a line that I don't want you to cross and that line is like don't have sex with him, right? Oh, damn. I'm letting you know now. Got it. That's what the. That's what the. But you know, vacation I went on with Rich. No, no.

[00:51:04] Harper obviously Ethan might suspect that Harper's line would just be like, you shouldn't even have like been there partying. Yeah, which is totally reasonable in my opinion. But the one interesting thing about this is there like Harper clearly to Ethan knows something happened.

[00:51:22] And he's like, oh, what does she know? And she's like super upset about the condom in there just and then there's the tapping at the door and the door opens and here's Cameron and Daphne. Oh, they're all happy and lovey.

[00:51:32] And it's interesting to me that Cameron is the one who full on cheated and wanted all this to happen. And here he is just having the best time with his wife. Well, right. Then it's the one who resisted and didn't go through with it.

[00:51:44] And they're just like all tortured about it because that's the kind of two couples they are. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, doesn't seem fair. But no, not at all. It is also interesting that Ethan's like catatonic when Harper first comes back.

[00:51:59] I feel like that alone should have maybe been more of a sign to her. Yeah. And she he says at the end of the day, like you've been a zombie all day and it seems like yeah, she's just been processing this whole thing

[00:52:13] and it'll be interesting to see what happens next because it does feel like she could be on a different trajectory after this. Yeah, for sure. Cameron and Daphne as a couple is definitely the kind of people that expand your definitions of what humans are capable of.

[00:52:29] Sometimes that takes time to settle into your brain. It might have been like approaching situations and answering life questions based on what you think human humanity is. And then suddenly you meet a couple like that and you're like, oh, there's different strokes for different folks. Wow.

[00:52:49] And they seem so shallow at first, but they're just complicated. Yeah. All right. Randy? So one of the things that I did think was a theme in this episode is changing lifestyles. A small one is I think when we see Harper getting out of the car

[00:53:12] with Daphne when they arrive, she seems to almost be embodying being a rich woman, which is something that she's sort of been resisting. She's in one of the dresses that Daphne has bought her. She says thank you to the driver who just drove them

[00:53:28] for three hours and just gets out with her bags and stuff. And I think it's just like a little inkling of like, I'm a different person just a tiny bit after spending some time with Daphne. Yeah, because Ethan and Harper just having come into this money is,

[00:53:44] I think a quieter theme maybe or but it is there for sure. And it's like how is the money changing their relationship? It's introducing or it's putting them in circles with other rich people who are maybe have much different lifestyles to their own and it's influencing their lifestyle.

[00:54:05] And the dress she was wearing was very much a Daphne style, like fluffy floral. Is that a Harper dress? Yep. And then obviously Ethan who told Cameron just last episode, he doesn't lie to his wife, spends this whole episode lying to his wife.

[00:54:23] So that's his new track in life is like, all right, well I spent one day alone with Cameron and all of a sudden I lie to my wife now. Obviously Lucia is down on her lifestyle.

[00:54:37] She doesn't want to necessarily do the line of work she is doing anymore. And then she created a monster out of Mia who earlier on was very hesitant to even hang out with Lucia while she did this, but now she's just like, I have the power.

[00:54:54] Like I'm going to get everything I want with this. And then Albie in his interactions with Lucia kind of gives up a little bit of his nice guy persona. I don't think Albie is typically the guy who would go back with a woman

[00:55:13] and sleep with her or have any sort of intercourse with her the first night he met her, which we saw with Portia. Like he very easily could have gone in with her that night, but he was very direct with like, nope, this is the end of our evening.

[00:55:30] We don't go there this first time, but this night he's just like, he's with Lucia. He's not fully changed because he does say may I come, but he's getting there. Well, I mean, she initiates everything. Like with Portia, Portia is kind of like,

[00:55:47] to be honest, she's kind of passive. She's waiting for Albie to make the move. So she's like, all right. But Lucia is definitely like, oh, they're kissing. Guess what? Oh, smooch, right? Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if she was like pulling down the pants. Yeah. So for Albie.

[00:56:03] And he's like, what's happening here? I think Albie too is fairly passive, which is why what's aggressive is like so awkward to watch. So yeah, Portia. Two passives. That's true. Yeah. So yeah, Portia. Yeah. Two passives. That's just like, what do you want to do? I don't know.

[00:56:23] What do you want to do? Right. What do you want to do kind of relationship? It's not going to work. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good point. Well also with Albie though, he receives a blowjob from Lucia, but he doesn't reciprocate in any way that we've seen,

[00:56:38] which seems like it would go against his nice guy thing of like, no, this is an equal give and take. Like you should be getting something out of this. So granted Lucia is the one who's pushing it,

[00:56:48] but that is a step away from what I think he would normally do. Yeah. And like she is suddenly feeling like I don't want this lifestyle anymore. And that's right when she goes and sits with Albie and sees that

[00:57:05] he's having this problem where this girl he likes is with another guy. So that's kind of why I was wondering maybe she's sort of like, all right, I'm done with this whole transactional thing. I'm going to actually have a real encounter with somebody.

[00:57:20] I'm going to have a little compassion for this guy and treat him like, you know, it's a human connection. And then when she's in the bar with him and sees that Portia and Jack are kissing and she's like, I'm going to help this guy out.

[00:57:36] So then when they're in the bedroom and she's giving a blowjob, it feels like she's doing him a favor. Right. Nice, you know? And then she doesn't ask for any money. So I remember watching this first time I was like,

[00:57:51] is this like a genuine just human connection that's going on? Yeah. Or are we going to see something the next morning that shatters this or yeah, we don't know. Yeah. I too was wondering like, oh, is she working or not?

[00:58:05] But you know when you point out that she's being nice to him, there's that too. But you know, as a former sex worker, sometimes you just want to not be a sex worker, right? And it doesn't have to be because you're being nice.

[00:58:17] It could just be like, oh, here's an attractive guy. And the way into his bed is, you know, oh look, I see the way into his bed because it's italian how I play. And it's just fun. You know, once in a while,

[00:58:31] you just kind of forget that you're a worker in that field and you just are yourself. So it could be that or not. Yeah. It's like taking the weekend. She's like, I still enjoy this. I just yeah. So she's taking, she's basically just taking ownership of her sexuality.

[00:58:49] It is hers to give or not or sell or whatever. So, but we'll see. And she does seem, I want to say she seems genuinely interested when he's talking in each iteration we see that in. Part of that could be that that's what she is professionally capable

[00:59:09] of doing is just seeming general, yeah, seeming generally interested in whoever she's with. But it felt like there was a little bit more to it where she seemed actually interested in everything he's talking about.

[00:59:22] I did also think it was interesting that in the bar had he not kissed Lucia. There was maybe a slight percentage less that Portia would have gone back to the room with Jack because she seemed like she was kind of done with the night.

[00:59:39] She was feeling bad about it and then she looks over and sees them kissing and I feel like she's kind of like, all right, he's got his own thing. I don't have to even think about him anymore. Yeah.

[00:59:48] She, I mean, Portia goes, all right, yep, let's go back to my room. And I felt like maybe there was a little bit of, oh, all right, fine. Like almost like a little jealousy there. Yeah, maybe not.

[01:00:04] But it's like that just pushed her more towards why you're doing what you want to do. I'm fine. I'm going to do exactly. Yeah. Which is ironic that Albie maybe caused that to happen. Yeah. Definitely didn't want to have happened. Right. Right. Let's see. I'll talk.

[01:00:21] I'll do a short one just Valentina. So she sees she sees Isabella and Rocco laughing together and then says, does he make you feel uncomfortable? And says men can sometimes be intrusive and aggressive, which is absolutely true. But I can understand why she would say that mostly because

[01:00:40] Isabella did tell her, I admire how you handle men. And also Isabella always has the same expression, smiling and pleasant no matter what's happening. So she's hard to read. Yeah. So you don't know whether she's enjoying it with Rocco or not, even though she seemed like she was.

[01:00:59] But then it was so cute to see Valentina with this high school kid crush, big-eyed and blushing and fumbling. It's such a great contrast to how she is with everyone else. It's really fun to watch that. And all the acting I think in this show,

[01:01:17] this season is so good. This character too in particular. And she gets her this jeweled starfish brooch at the jewelry store she liked. And again, Isabella, the camera's more on Valentina here. So we don't fully get to see Isabella's reaction, but she's hard to read.

[01:01:36] She's always nice and smiley. And so she could be like, oh, the woman I am attracted to gave me something that's so nice or she could be like, wow, this is weird. Right. Smile anyway. You just don't know. Yeah.

[01:01:50] She could be ironic that in trying to be a mentor to Isabella and teacher, like this is how you can tell people to leave you alone. She may also be bothering her. Yeah. And we don't know. Intrusive and aggressive. Yeah. Absolutely.

[01:02:07] All I can think of is an employer giving an employee a gift like that is totally inappropriate. Harassment. Yeah. Yep. This is not like, oh, five-year service. You know, you're retiring. Yeah. This is not like everybody gets a bonus. This is like, hi. Yeah.

[01:02:27] Not just, oh, I bought you a coffee. It's like, hey, I went out of my, I claimed I didn't, but I went out of my way to go to this fancy jewelry store and I bought you this expensive piece of jewelry. Like, yep.

[01:02:41] And there's a part of me that's like, that is so inappropriate. And then there's another part of me that's like, oh, she's so like, she's got her heart on a sleeve. And I remember watching it for the first time. I hoped that Isabella would respond positively to it

[01:02:55] and they would have this tort affair, you know? Yep. Isabella retains her very pleasant poker face. Right. Absolutely. And then that little sweet moment is interrupted by Giuseppe being carted out onto an ambulance. They have to immediately stop having that little interaction and she has to run off.

[01:03:20] Yeah. So we don't really get to see how she feels. All right, what's next, Jenny? So Tanya and new friends. Oh, this, I mean, this is probably the reason why I loved Tanya's role in this season because she gets, you know, she's having,

[01:03:39] I mean, she's hanging out with a bunch of, you know, fun, wealthy gays. I mean, it's fun. So I'm just like, yeah, I want to follow this story live. Come on, let's hang out here. Let's have some mimosas. Let's talk about, I don't know, people's villas

[01:03:55] and look at chiseled chests and all that stuff. I mean, how could this not be fun? And also, you know, you can tell that she's someone who she's very narcissistic, right? Portia is opening up about like, oh, you know, I'm attracted to emotionally unavailable men.

[01:04:12] And I know I should like give Albie a chance and then Tanya's like, it's Greg, you know. Yeah, she doesn't even register. Well, and Portia had asked, can I go with Albie for the day? Pause, pause. I don't trust Greg or whatever.

[01:04:30] She couldn't even register that someone else had a need. And the music or whatever the sound effect, it was just like this high-pitched tone that you hear her playing, which almost makes you wonder, is that all Tanya hears when people talk to her? It's just like, eee.

[01:04:44] So she's a narcissist, right? Obviously. And, you know, there's nothing better than a narcissist than to have this person totally reflect everything about yourself back onto yourself. Like, I mean, oh yeah. Yes, this Tom, what's the name of the Tom Hollander character? And be adored, Quentin. Quentin, yes.

[01:05:03] Quentin's just like listening, being supportive, saying wonderful things, supplying these beautiful things. Making her laugh and it's, you can tell that she needs that. And you can tell that it's a lot of fun for her. And I mean, it was just such a fun storyline.

[01:05:22] I mean, it reminded me a lot of college I had. I had some gay friends and it's so much fun hanging out with gay friends. But yeah, it's just, I was just like, ah, thinking of my 20s

[01:05:34] and all the partying we used to do in New York City and all that stuff. So, you know, for me, this was just kind of like, ah, this is so cool. It's funny that she goes from an emotionally unavailable man to a physically unavailable man. Mm. Inquite. Yeah.

[01:05:53] Although he's offering her what a hung stud or something. Oh yeah, that's true. She's like, oh, tempting. Quick to do the thing she doesn't want her husband to do. He may be already doing it. Yep. Yeah, so let's see.

[01:06:08] I mean, at this point, I was like, is this guy for real? He's so attentive. And then Jack says they like to hang out with, I think he says old hags or something and that's it. And I'm like, OK, so this is their habit. But he said rich.

[01:06:26] Rich old ladies, which to be honest, sounded kind of predatory. I was like, yeah. I mean, like, why do you hang out with rich old ladies? Not, you know, or. Or just a crooper. Like the people you can identify with. He's lived a life of distraction,

[01:06:42] which basically means constant vacationing probably. So where does he get the money for that? And then he tells the story of the woman who lived in this house and these investment interests wanted her out. And she ended up smashed on the rocks below.

[01:06:58] But now the house is available to the public in the country. And I'm like, OK, that's. And she, Tanya seems engrossed in that. Like he's an entertaining guy. That was a mysterious edgy story. But are you part of that? Or. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:07:15] There's a slight tinge of darkness to this interaction. Of course it would not be white lotus without that. Yeah. I think even the music gets a little darker there. And he's not smiling during that chunk of the conversation. He says the.

[01:07:27] He says there's a story attached to that island. There's a house on it. It was owned by a wealthy Swedish family and the old matriarch was the last one living in it. And there were these powerful local investors, if you know what I mean, who wanted the house,

[01:07:41] wanted the island. But the old battle axe went and bulged. They made all kinds of offers. And then one day her body was found in a heap at the bottom of the rocks. And she's like, they killed her? Oh my God.

[01:07:53] But now the house is open to the public. So maybe it was worth it. We should go and see it. Yeah. I mean, he just seems like he could be a charming guy telling an interesting story, of course. And I also, you said she laughs.

[01:08:07] I loved when he made her laugh. Like he says the best thing about luck is it can always change. And she says, do you really believe that? And he goes, no. And she gave us. There was another time that she giggled and. Yeah.

[01:08:19] It was really cute to see her. I like seeing her happy and having fun too. Yeah, for sure. I looked up that island to see if that story was true. And I didn't find anything that had that type of story.

[01:08:30] It was owned and passed on by a couple of families. And eventually Sicily did purchase it. And there is a very narrow beach that is occasionally available when the tide goes out so that you can walk across to it apparently from Sicily. No, I mean, it sounds amazing.

[01:08:48] I would love to go visit that. I mean, we now know that the hotel is actually on top of a mountain and the beach is totally separate, which ruins the imagination that they're connected. Like when Mia's running down to the beach to get the pills.

[01:09:06] We just don't see her getting on the shuttle bus. Excuse me. But we just think, I mean, it's the fictional reality that she's on. Yeah. So I think it's, I think he's a con man. I know this is the second time I'm watching it,

[01:09:22] but this is what I felt also the first time I watched it, which is, I mean, this guy's obviously not obviously, but I'm pretty sure he's a con man, right? There's the love bombing. There's like the randomness of it. Like do people really just come up to you,

[01:09:36] invite you to amazing parties and sit and listen to your life story. I mean, I would be totally suspicious. I don't know when gives a crap about my life story. So of course, if I was as wealthy as she was,

[01:09:47] maybe everybody has been interested in my life story. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was unclear. I suspected that he was a con man, but there was a part of me going, maybe they're just fun like they're out in this really fun place.

[01:10:00] And maybe they're just, you know, to, if they're on constant vacation, then yeah, they want to like interact with new people and live and things up sometimes, you know? Yeah. My read on him, the first go through is just that he's a fun guy.

[01:10:17] Like he just enjoys partying and he picks up on people who are like the strays of the resort and just kind of like pulls together his little party group there and he likes to be the flashy, fun one who everybody likes

[01:10:32] and he's probably done this to each person who's in that little party zone. So it just seemed like he's one of those party guys. This is my read. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we also have the scene in which Jack was like,

[01:10:45] oh, he likes to find wealthy old ladies and I've never found a sentence in which you say you don't be like to go after wealthy old ladies ending in. Cause they're so fun. Yeah. Right now. Yeah. For sure. Yeah.

[01:11:00] The only other thing I had on this is when he tells, when she tells Quentin, Tonya tells Quentin that she was there with her husband, he's like, oh, tell me the whole story from the beginning and she goes, well, I was born in San Francisco and I thought

[01:11:15] that was going to be a joke, but I should have known it wasn't. Yeah. That's the beginning. It's like, yeah. Oh, we're going all the way back to the beginning. Yeah. Fine. I think the one thing that's distracting about Quentin for

[01:11:29] me right now is that he has the same accent as Laszlo from what we do in the shadows. So that's all I'm hearing is him just being like, come darling, let's have a grand time. He's like, he's a vampire. Nice. Randy got any more points?

[01:11:47] I have one yet. It does seem like paintings in this episode were playing an important role. We pointed out a couple of them when Albie at the very end of the episode falls back onto the bed above him is

[01:12:02] a painting of Saint Sebastian who was an early Christian saint and martyr. He hid his Christianity and when he was found out, he was initially tied to a post and shot with arrows. But this didn't actually kill him according to the story.

[01:12:20] He was rescued and healed by Saint Irene of Rome. And shortly after his recovery, he went to the Emperor to warn him about his sins. And as a result, he was clubbed to death. He's also a saint that is supposed to protect people from plagues.

[01:12:37] So I'm trying to dive into like, what does this have to do with Albie? And I think Albie in this maybe is in this scene dying as a martyr to protect against toxic masculinity. So he's been the one fighting for it this whole time.

[01:12:55] But now he's interacting with Lucia. Who is maybe his Saint Irene who is healing him and he's taking one for the team now and he's going to die on this, this bed for all of the toxic masculinity in the show. It's a very vague connection.

[01:13:13] I am trouble trying to make it work. I heard good things about the lives of the saints as reading material. I'm not Catholic but I've heard reading people, memoirs of Catholic people that some of their earliest memories is reading that book as their first introduction to core violence.

[01:13:31] It's on my list of books to read one of these days. Well, one of the things about this painting in particular is it has been somewhat adopted by the LGBTQ plus community because it's about a saint who was hiding a part of himself and when he finally

[01:13:50] came out about it, he was killed for it. So it is seen in a lot of clubs and places like that. So I would imagine Mike White has some knowledge of that and is kind of working that into the scene where

[01:14:02] we now have this group of gay men who have become a part of the show. When Lucia is in Bert's room and she's sort of questioning her life, she crosses herself after seeing a painting and that is the painting of Saint

[01:14:17] Lucy and that's the one where it's the woman holding a tray with two eyes on it and she was also a Christian martyr and it was ordered that her eyes be gouged out when she was being murdered by the Roman emperor guards for being a Christian.

[01:14:32] That one, I don't know if Lucia is seeing herself as a martyr but it does seem like she's suddenly aware that people see her as a sex worker. She says to me, everybody here knows what we're doing here.

[01:14:47] So I feel like the tray with an extra set of eyeballs seems to be looking down on her and seeing her and she's visible now. And then, of course, we have Mia in the church with Giuseppe. She's first laying down on the bench and she

[01:15:05] looks up and she sees the frescoes up there, the very religious symbolism and she's like, I can't do this. And initially, I was like, oh, she means she can't have sex with him and she's like, no, I just need to be in a different position.

[01:15:16] I don't want to look at that. Yeah, I can't look at that. But then she still sees an image of, I don't know if it's her or Giuseppe sees Jesus being put on the cross as well and they're just like, no, oh gosh.

[01:15:29] Then the last one, which I didn't really delve too deep into but after Harper finds the condom, it cuts to a painting in their room which shows a woman laying down on a bed with her hands up and sort of looks like maybe somebody's throwing a

[01:15:44] blanket off of her so it's like something's being revealed or some secrets being shown or something like that. That one, I was even less vague. There were so many of these in here that I was like, all right, there's got to be

[01:15:58] something that ties all of these things together and I still think they're just as like, they're just on the cusp of having a meaning but so just far enough away that it's hard to settle on something entirely which might be something Mike White's doing on purpose

[01:16:15] to just be like, think about it a little bit. There's no perfect tie but they're very much showcasing all of this artwork in very particular scenes so those are the ones that I noted. That's great. I mean, they're all religious so that's at least,

[01:16:31] that might be enough just to think about guilt and guilt and yeah. The way I see it is this is the White Lotus Hotel Chain. This is not Four Seasons, this is the White Lotus Hotel Chain. Now for the first season

[01:16:47] I had read about the set design. They had gone into the Four Seasons but they had punched it up like they had a ton of pineapples and a whole wall of pineapple wallpaper for the pineapple room and they would have a lot of the

[01:16:59] colors that you see in the bright tropical prints were put in by the set designers. The Four Seasons are a bit more bland compared to because this is the White Lotus not the Four Seasons and so this thing here, I don't know if this

[01:17:14] hotel is going to have paintings with eyes on a train. Yeah it's a little grotesque. In the typical hotel room but in the White Lotus it is and it makes me want to go to a White Lotus not a Four Seasons. Man, this is what the hotel

[01:17:31] room designers are going to do when they're in a convent at Sicily and make sure there's two eyes on a plate are staring at you while you're lying in bed. This is what I'm talking to me man. Yeah, I definitely go for that. I tend to generally

[01:17:47] related to all of this. I went to Senoi to visit all the Walking Dead filming locations and there's an in there and when I was looking at all the rooms online I was sitting by myself there was one that was full of dolls for some reason

[01:18:01] and I was like well that's creepy and that's what I went for. Just to make it a little creepier. Cool. And there's that head too that they mentioned at the beginning. The woman who cheated. Yeah, chop the head off. Alright, should we go into notes? Yes.

[01:18:21] Yeah, Jenny, want to go first? Yeah, so I have two small notes and they're kind of related to the same group of people. So Bert's nice surprise courtesy of Dominic. He's his old man who was like I'm never going to see a naked woman

[01:18:37] again which I'm like oh come on. In real life. That's him saying that to me it kind of shows that he's actually not really expecting anything when he flirts with these women Yeah, yeah. For whatever that's worth. That's the gratification he gets is that interaction.

[01:18:57] Right, so he opens the door and he's like whoo and that's thanks to Dominic. I mean it was an unintentional gift to his dad. Hey. I do think it was interesting that he seemed almost scared by the situation the way he talks, he comes across

[01:19:15] as confident like women love me and I love women and then he sees naked women and she's like well they are in his room. Yeah, it's like it spooked him as well and then later when he's talking about these way more companies like

[01:19:29] so there were naked women in my room today and it's like you almost peed your pants. He does seem super sleazy when he's talking about it. Yeah, I saw boobs. And then there's another interaction between Albin Dominic is not so positive in which Dominic tries to kill Albin

[01:19:51] to keeping the family together and Albin that is so wrong and it is so manipulative. I mean come on. That's what you do with a 6 year old 22 year old or 20 year old Stafford suit is going to see right through you and be like we're in college now

[01:20:09] or I don't know how old his sister is but we're in college now keeping this family together thing is not not quite as important as it was previously and you fucked up not me. Yeah, it shouldn't be on Albie to keep the family together.

[01:20:25] It should be on his dad to not do the actions that tears the family apart. Yeah, and he he bought them jewelry and Albie says you can't buy people off and he goes it's a gesture but he's absolutely trying to buy them off. Also his interaction with Valentina

[01:20:45] when he comes down and he's like I'd like to buy some jewelry she pulls a little bit of an arm on and she's like I don't know where you can buy jewelry Yeah, totally. Just walk outside you'll find it. Yeah, just walk around.

[01:20:57] I totally understand what she's like we're in the middle of a mall practically. But also she knows that she brought women back to his room so I feel like she's like screw you dude I'm not helping you. Anything else? That's it Jenny? Randy?

[01:21:15] I just noticed that they had a couple of ADR background dialogue that popped in. One is when you see Portia and Jack talking and they're really far away but you hear Portia say yeah taste the rainbow just a one off line and then

[01:21:31] Burt when they go to breakfast he's talking to the waitress and he says what are all these numbers next to all of the food are those the prices and the that like we're no longer looking at them I forget what we're at we're

[01:21:43] in a whole nother scene looking at other characters but you still hear the conversation and he's like Dom goes what do you care about the prices you're not paying for anything and he's like all right well then I'll have two of everything. That's good. Another funny line

[01:21:59] that got me so good was when Tanya and Portia are first walking out to where they're going to meet the group of guys and I don't know if it's the matri-dee or like the greeter there says like hello or something in Italian and Tanya just goes

[01:22:17] oh my god that's the weirdest voice I've ever heard that's the whole interaction but he just he just has like a deep voice buzz yeah hilarious gin and tonics are the drink of the night everybody's having gin and tonics Lucia orders them

[01:22:35] Jack orders them and previous to this everybody's drink of choice has been an Aperol spritz which I know because the last time we watched it we purchased the ingredients for Aperol spritz and then the book that Albie is reading when he's waiting for Portia

[01:22:53] is the architecture of closed worlds and it's about closed self-sustained systems which could metaphorically describe the white lotus resorts but I think it also feeds into the into the sandbox thing where you're just like you're in this space and this is what can or cannot

[01:23:11] happen within those confines and then the very last one is I just thought the ending credit song was pretty interesting they took the main theme song but they gave it like a western sounding like an American western yeah actually have a clip of it awesome yeah because I

[01:23:29] thought it was really interesting should I play now yeah okay it's really nice yeah it almost feels like it could go into like the walking dead or the last of us as well yeah yeah I don't know why they played that but no I couldn't figure out

[01:23:53] a reason for it but it was nice yeah and that's it for my notes okay I have a few I thought it was funny that you cut to Giuseppe and Mia and cut to Giuseppe and Mia while you think having sex

[01:24:11] in the church although you find out he can't get it up but anyway she's like bouncing on his lap and she looks bored as fuck and it's funny how the sex this season there's I mean this is the sex season of white lotus but there's some

[01:24:25] pre disconnected sex there was Tanya and Greg in the first episode where he's just and she goes look it off me there was well other sex there's Cameron and Lucia which seemed pretty hot I guess but we're kind of removed and then we didn't actually see it

[01:24:45] but it seemed like Portia and Jack were about to go for it that actually seemed like it was going to be pretty hot um Albie and Lucia just seemed like Lucia was doing poor Albie a favor so I guess there's all the different types of

[01:24:59] he looked pained almost yeah he didn't know what to do in the situation um what else I liked how just like last season each episode is one day so we always start off in the morning there's just something nice about that like

[01:25:19] going back to the scene with Giuseppe and me I think they were having sex but he lost his oh okay because why would you be bouncing up and down if you just bouncing up and down on her lap I thought he has pants on too though

[01:25:33] yeah no his pants were part way down huh his pants were down which is interesting because she says like why are why do men have all the power and I feel like anytime you see a depiction of a guy with his pants slightly down

[01:25:45] they look so pathetic and he looked even more pathetic and it's just interesting that that's the the least powerful a man looks is when his pants are slightly down um I like that a lot of it is in Italian subtitles I I just love when shows

[01:26:03] go ahead they don't try to contrive it so that things are in English you know yeah um the Italian pastries looked really good so far I've only had green juice today and I was wishing I could reach in and grab it I did have as a note

[01:26:21] the breakfast buffets oh man every time they show them I'm like that's all I want out of a resort is breakfast buffets you love buffets I do um and then last just Tanya says that women are depressing and most women are drips Daphne says women pretend they

[01:26:39] want to be your friend but really they just want to get something out of you and talk shit and stab you in the back and um I wonder Jenny if you have any feelings or thoughts about a man having written all this for his

[01:26:49] female characters to say about women he is a gay man yeah so that's you know they they're closer to the perspective but I mean as someone who will say that you know I felt like I had more male friends than female friends at certain points in my life

[01:27:11] I totally kind of understand where they're coming from I mean the female friendship is very fraught for females because we are here's where I go off on a tangent we're bombarded by society to tell you that tells you you should have

[01:27:27] a bunch of girlfriends and you're so close and you share everything and you know then one day you're 25 and you're like I don't have that is there something wrong with me I mean I have some friends

[01:27:37] I have a lot of female friends but they're not in one big group like they're like one on one I met Bla and you know grad school I met Bla in high school right and I hang out with them one on one but I don't have like

[01:27:49] this posse of girlfriends and every you know sometimes I feel a little guilty or like there's something wrong with me because society makes it sound like you and your girlfriend to hear all the women here saying like oh I have no girlfriends

[01:28:07] I'm just like oh I just feel you know I feel related to them you know yeah like I've said about this season before I think everyone feels kind of lonely and I heard both of those two things in this episode and thought wow

[01:28:23] he's being really harsh about women but then I thought well he's also all the characters are pretty flawed so maybe he's not singling them out even though there is these there are these bits of dialogue like they all seem lonely and flawed to me

[01:28:37] so I don't know. Seemed like there was a little bit of a discussion of the bro code and then the cis code where it's just like neither seems like a very healthy interaction with each other the bro code is you don't tell anybody

[01:28:51] what happened between us and then the girl code is like we pretend we're friends right or something like that so neither of those types are good it's clearly an abuse of the bro code in this situation where it's like if we're friends

[01:29:07] you have to lie for me it's like nah I think that makes us not friends don't tell the FDC what I did with those stocks bro code is a college thing not a thing when you're married it's time for a little guest feedback

[01:29:48] and Jenny would you like to go first? ok ok Mary Patricia D'arigol says I love the chemistry between the three of you the banter, polite discourse and unusual observations very unusual I want an example of one of our unusual observations so that we know

[01:30:10] it's pretty much all of them thanks Mary appreciate it Matthew Rimmer says Leo Woodall makes an impression as Jack a really believable Essex lad great performance also standing out on the universally strong acting front is Aubrey Plaza who can do so much with just a look yeah absolutely

[01:30:32] the only thing both with Aubrey Plaza and Adam DiMarco who plays Albie I sort of wonder if they're what they're bringing with them well with Aubrey because she's kind of famous so we've known her from other things that we might when you really look at her character

[01:30:54] she's insecure about her relationship and her place in it and she's also kind of I don't know she's anxious and all that but I had to let go of my thoughts about Aubrey Plaza already I guess to really get a beat on her character because

[01:31:12] I just think of Aubrey Plaza as kick ass you know but I don't think Harper is and so you have to let go of that with Aubrey Plaza and then with Adam DiMarco I don't know him but I suspect he's a super little charming dude right

[01:31:28] and he's playing this awkward sort of overly accommodating guy but I just think his charm can't help but ooze through so maybe we're not getting the same hit of the character that Mike White originally intended I don't know I it's just speculation

[01:31:44] but they're both great I mean I think they're both great actors for sure there's layers yeah Tammy Barr says my hubby and I are listening actually just watch season one while on a cruise to Hawaii nice great experience kind of an

[01:31:58] immersive colonial experience great coverage on that season thank you we just watched season 2 episode 2 last night so we're not current while walking around the promenade deck yesterday my hubby and I were discussing the fine line between flirting and harassment and how that line has moved in the past

[01:32:12] 30 years which is a good thing we talked about our experiences with compliments at work and how that may be interpreted as harassment, flirting or just common conversation love that this show gives us so much to talk about I'd like to know what you guys talked about

[01:32:26] I asked her do you think that Burt crosses the line into harassment and she said from what I've seen so far no but it's possible he can and does harass women without knowing it or seeing it as such mm-hmm yeah I do love that this show encourages

[01:32:42] conversations like this it's not just the you watch it and forget it you're forced to kind of think about it and then even just talking about how the characters develop you have to talk about the social things that it brings up with them for sure

[01:32:58] I mean when me too happen I think everybody you know people who are like 20 and under they can see me too and be like this is the blueprint for going forward right for everyone who's older say 40 and over when me too happen

[01:33:12] you look back at all your experiences and you're just like oh yeah it's kind of a hard line and yeah I did not I would not look good if this came out what happened here and over there and that over there and it's all over and hopefully

[01:33:32] everyone has forgotten and we can move on and yes the blueprint is good because we can see how you know it can turn out badly but I do think you know everyone 30 and above had so many experiences that were borderline and it's good to have rules now

[01:33:48] but the reason why there weren't rule I mean why everything was so bad was because there were no rules and we all did very borderline stuff or the people who are experiencing in a bad way were not the people who had allowed enough

[01:34:02] voice to be able to say like we're not liking this so it wasn't until they are able to speak up that everybody else is more aware of it I'd say one of the things like that that I really think back to is essentially the LGBTQ plus movement

[01:34:18] when I was in like elementary school the word gay meant like an insult to somebody but the idea of saying that now seems just crazy so I do I also see when you look back and you're just like yeah it's weird that

[01:34:34] for a while it seemed like that was completely an okay activity but then once you're aware of like what that does to another group of people then it changes and it's awkward and uncomfortable to look back on something that you've maybe done or

[01:34:50] thought was okay and realize like oh that was a mistake so yeah and that's why we need room for people to be able to uh I mean we're doing things now that future generations are gonna look back on and be like

[01:35:06] you guys were so wrong including the young people of today who are having everyone from the past so it's good to understand okay this was the context we were in but how is your behavior now have you changed um but I just did a podcast

[01:35:20] uh on my friend Mark's podcast Adrenaline Sinema podcast about the movie Total Recall with Arnold Schwarzenegger sci-fi movie back in the it was in 1990 and um it was I loved that movie back in the day

[01:35:34] and I was wondering if it was gonna hold up and it totally did it's it's it's pretty cool I noticed that really stuck out was all the women are into Arnold's character in this movie they're making eyes at him they're flirting and they're shaking their butt you know

[01:35:48] they're posing sexily they're all available and they're basically I mean they're strong you know they're badass fighters so there's that but they're also just sex objects yeah and and there's one you know of course if you watch that movie remember the three breasted alien prostitute

[01:36:06] and um what I didn't remember is this cab driver guy goes up to her and starts chatting her up and just grabs her boob huh and he's like hey baby you know and I'm like God that is so uncomfortable now and that's because

[01:36:20] maybe it was back then I don't know for sure but I know I didn't notice probably back then that just all the women were like sexually available and flirting with Arnie and now that we've passed through me too and we're like fuck man that is so

[01:36:32] that's just everything was like that and right it seems wrong you know it seems wrong yeah yeah it is very interesting when you go back and rewatch something and just leaving if a certain word gets used where you're like oh every time I hear that word it feels

[01:36:46] like oh please stop my experience is I guess to be more specific it's like I have had people hit me hit on me in academic and work settings who are at a higher level than me and I accept it right which is like

[01:37:04] not cool because there's an inherent power balance but I was like well I am interested guys cute you know and that's not cool anymore right yeah I don't think that that should necessarily I don't the whole power differential thing I think

[01:37:22] is more complicated than just if you have more power than someone then there's no you can only have this professional like or even if you're not in the same like a celebrity should never talk to someone who's not a celebrity I don't

[01:37:34] I don't think it's as simple as that but I do think there are issues of power at play so I don't know yeah I don't know but when I was at Houghton Mifflin publishing company as like a junior editor when I was in my early 20s

[01:37:48] I had two older women there editors one who was clearly interested in me and we were proofreading this big page together and she pulls this hair off of it and goes is this a pubic hair and I'm just like I don't know what to say yeah and then

[01:38:08] we had the Santa thing where we did the gift exchange and she wanted her gift to be for me to sit on her lap or her to sit on my lap or something she asked somebody else if that would be appropriate

[01:38:18] right and then there was another woman that I worked very closely with and she was very critical of my editorial skills I felt unfairly so like there was something weird going on and then she started telling me this story about

[01:38:28] how she had this like tour to fair with this guy where they had sex all weekend and she was this older woman who looked like a like a teacher or something and then when I left Houghton Mifflin to go because I was in college

[01:38:40] to go back home and she wrote a message on my card that said hey you can stay at my place anytime and she wasn't at my going away party but everyone saw that and I was like

[01:38:50] they're looking at me like what's going on there and I'm like I have no idea right so I had two experiences where I felt kind of flattered honestly but also very uncomfortable and I could write them off as oh this is an interesting story kind of flattering uncomfortable

[01:39:04] but thinking about it now like if that happened to me all the time like it does to a lot of women like all the time then I could see it getting real old real fast you know what I mean yeah I think that is one of the things

[01:39:16] as being a man is we're always like what how would you not enjoy that attention and it's like because we get it like once or twice once in a while in our life yeah we're like still living off that high it's like

[01:39:28] no I could see where if literally every interaction with somebody being like hey I want to see you naked I'd be like come on yeah well I apologize for making men think it's okay to hit on their underlings I did a little bit to that obviously yeah

[01:39:50] it's complicated matter well I was saying I've only had one creepy old man interaction that I'm aware of and that was I was in line at Tim Hortons the one that I worked at actually and there was this old guy behind me who kept being like

[01:40:08] excuse me excuse me I'm finally like yeah and he was just like you know you can make a lot of money if you pose nude for art students and I was like this is such like I was like granted as an older male I'm

[01:40:22] not physically like worried right now but I'm just like this is what a weird thing to say to a stranger like what it what am I supposed to get from this I don't understand but yeah so if that happened to me every day I could see by like

[01:40:36] this point in my life I'd be like Valentino or I'd just be like I just want to buy a coffee without being told to like go fuck a movie it's just only happened once did you consider it I don't later I did look into yeah

[01:40:52] I was like how much do they get paid they don't get paid as much as he was making it seem like what a jerk yep so you run so Franca says Ciao tutti, sono Franca I'm Sicilian so I thought I should write in

[01:41:12] I watched season 2 a while back as I'm sentimental about watching anything Sicily related I won't say anything about the show in fear of giving something away I just listened to your episode 1 podcast where Jenny Bay dreamed about going to Sicily while you worried about a fire breaking out

[01:41:28] you all laughed as it seemed a remote possibility but in July during a 100 plus degree heat wave a major fire did break out in the northwest part of Sicily where my parents are from I was a little bit worried about the fire and the smoke and the

[01:41:44] fire but the smoke and the fear of spreading sent many of the predominantly older citizens indoors for several days everyone's fine but when I heard you say that it made you remember what happened and worry about climate warming globally I sent a few pictures

[01:41:58] when is the local landmark that was at risk there's this photograph of looks like a beautiful Greco-Roman structure and right next to it is there's flames and it's night time so they're especially bright and they're really close they look like they're just 20-30 maybe 20 meters away so

[01:42:22] and there's smoke everywhere in the background and it is a frightening photo so Franca continues Sicily is beautiful and the food is amazing it's not as touristy as Italy but I imagine the show may generate more tourists to visit plan a visit if you can

[01:42:38] your white lotus podcast brings me back to the show and remembering my visits to my ancestral country though I'm born in the USA Arrivederci Arrivederci is that how you say it? I don't know but yeah man that's harsh and we should stay away from there so

[01:42:58] I don't know I think that was the joke was that everywhere you guys seem to go to see a fire following but global warming is my greatest fear and the thing I stress out about the most probably in life really is if you've traveled

[01:43:16] in the past two years it's unavoidable yeah and it really does seem like fires are just breaking out everywhere all the time which is just it's wild fucked up man and I laugh because what else am I gonna do I feel anxious all the time about it honestly

[01:43:32] but uh yes I'm glad you're okay and thanks for writing in yeah actually if you have any other photos like this this is a tragic photo but it is beautiful but if you have just regular beautiful photos please share them send those yeah yeah

[01:43:50] alright here's as I said Wendy sent in messages about all the episodes was awesome so here's hers about this weeks Hi Jenny Jason and Randy episode four the heat is turned up the morning after is just not good for anybody but especially not good for Ethan

[01:44:10] he makes the critical mistake of not telling her the truth even though she asks him several times and it seems obvious that more went on that he is telling her about then she finds the condom rapper and she is convinced that Ethan cheated

[01:44:30] and I think this is reasonable like I don't know why she just doesn't come out and say she found the condom rapper but she's probably upset and doesn't know what to think and based on everything that Daphne told her I think

[01:44:46] this is just leading to a really bad place Valentina my sweet rose she passes Lucia and Mia in the hall and says you're as fresh as a couple roses she just can't stop herself she sees Isabella and Rocco talking again and she just shoots daggers

[01:45:06] at Rocco I fear that Rocco isn't going to make it at the white lotus again you can see that Isabella seems very nice to Valentina I'm just not sure she's reciprocating what Valentina seems to be offering but they're very sweet I love that side of Valentina

[01:45:24] it's really nice to see can't wait to see what happens with that and then oh poor Albie he's just so excited and hopeful as he heads to the beach club and reserves his cheese lounge for Portia looks up and sees her with Jack

[01:45:44] I felt so bad for him Portia not only blows him off but then she seems to get her jollies off on making him jealous but I'm sure she's not okay I get it that Albie is the guy that she thinks she should like

[01:45:58] but she isn't really attracted to but he's a person with feelings and she doesn't seem to care about that Quentin and Matteo pull Tanya into their web and I think they must know who she is and they're looking for somebody to foot the bills

[01:46:12] but they do seem like a lot of fun and entertaining so I really enjoyed all those pieces Jack Portia's bad boy when he talks his teeth don't move and his mouth doesn't open and once I have noticed this I can't unsee it, it's very distracting

[01:46:30] I can't get past it so he would be a no for me I don't care what he looks like a disagreement my husband and I had, I thought Lucia was being very authentic with Albie and enjoying his company and she had just claimed that she was giving up

[01:46:46] being a sex worker and I had was genuine but my husband thinks she's just playing him so I was wondering what you guys thought about that alright I'm at three minutes sorry can't wait to hear all your thoughts Thanks Wendy that's very Seinfeldian you won't date a woman

[01:47:06] or a guy who doesn't move his mouth when he talks I agree with her though we all hate Jack and his not moving teeth I think we all thought she was being genuine with Albie two of us thought she was I thought it was up in the air

[01:47:28] I was hoping yeah and we're gonna have to put off the thoughts about season one until next week no I'm just kidding let's play Jenny Red's call one of these calls is gonna have the cure I don't know if that's what we've just been putting off

[01:47:48] or like I know the Lotto number for next week oh fuck alright here goes Jenny Ryan on season one at last Hello Jenny from Saskatoon here what a lovely series of episodes of podcasts that was very nice listening to everyone's feelings about weight load to season one

[01:48:08] and I am looking forward to season two so here are my final thoughts I guess I'm gonna call her because I think I'm the only person out there who thinks she's bad I don't think she's intentionally bad but I think she embodies a lot of what

[01:48:24] people who try to fix colonialism or oppression do so she herself is a victim for sure but she also set all that up, she set all that stuff with with Kai in motion she didn't foresee what was gonna happen

[01:48:42] even when she knew that he was gonna get caught she just was frozen so basically my conclusion watching that last episode is that for Paula none of it was real the romance wasn't real and the crime wasn't real it was all an intellectual activity

[01:48:56] but for Kai everything was real the relationship was real and the crime was real and so one of the consequences ruined his life she's just like frozen, she feels bad but she doesn't do anything and so really what would have made a much less interesting story would be

[01:49:14] if she was like I will go home and I will fight for you and I will do what I can to raise awareness on your behalf and I will become an advocate I will use my power and privilege to amplify the voices of the Hawaiians

[01:49:28] but instead she's like go steal some stuff and she could have said it in touch, maybe she does we don't know but she could have helped him fight from afar but instead she doesn't come forward, she doesn't admit her guilt

[01:49:46] she doesn't take her plate, she doesn't take any responsibility for this she throws his bracelet over the side of the boat and she's just like well that never happened so that just makes me feel I mean yeah, she's bad she's not the worst

[01:50:02] but it almost means something that she feels bad it's like a lot of people who are like well I feel bad for what happened but what can I do so anyway, I think she's an example of how we try to do good

[01:50:16] but then do bad, but then throw up her hands and be like well, I tried, anyway the other thing I thought was really interesting is that every single relationship so Tanya at one point says she doesn't want to be in another transactional relationship

[01:50:28] so she can't do that with Belinda and when you think about it every single relationship on that show is transactional everyone is getting something out of someone whether they want to or not and so Rachel even recognizes that transactional is maybe what her marriage is going to be

[01:50:42] and she and her romance are transactional, Dylan the West Boy and his what's his friend's name Hugh, Huffy something and Armando are transactional everybody's transactional everyone's getting something out of everybody except maybe Armando and Belinda and definitely Quinn and the Roars and so for me

[01:51:06] Quinn is an example of someone who's doing doing it right he approaches the guys in the boat not as other, not as a tourist, not as they're not giving him anything, they're not performing for him in fact he wants to learn from them he starts using Hawaiian words

[01:51:24] just naturally not he's not performative, he's not affected about it he wants to participate in this activity not because he's a tourist but because he's found a community and they in turn treat him like an equal, they swear at him they give him hard time

[01:51:38] they treat him like a regular guy and they tell him they need him but they don't need him for money they need him because he's part of a team and to me a team isn't transactional it is collaborative and it is love

[01:51:50] so those are my kind of thoughts on that and the other thing I think I wanted to mention before but I forgot was that every time Shane is on screen his head is bare except when he's in scenes with his mother

[01:52:02] he's wearing a ball cap because he's a little boy he wears a baseball cap because he's a child with his mother okay, that was long I'm sure you all disagree with me about Paula but anyway those are my thoughts and I'm allowed to have them okay, goodbye

[01:52:18] Jenny again, yes I just want to say I know that Kai made Paula a necklace not a bracelet so please don't come after me goodbye first things first you're wrong Jenny and your feelings are wrong as well now alright, let's move on um, yeah I agree

[01:52:38] I mean I think Paula trying is maybe better than not doing anything and she clearly does care and is disturbed and I think she cares about Kai and she wants to see better for him but also she's just all about social justice in general

[01:52:54] but she really was dumb in the way she went about it and then yeah she threw up her hands afterwards and could have done more to take responsibility for it so yeah I agree with that this is one of the first lessons I learned at

[01:53:06] like in my early 20s which is when you try to help and fail people hate you more than if you've never tried to help at all it's just the way it is right, um and it's probably why we were isolationists as a country up until

[01:53:24] until Pearl Harbor and all that stuff right because we understood that and then of course we flipped the other way and poked our fingers into everything um and of course that's why everybody hates America because you know we tried to quote help and we totally

[01:53:38] failed in many many ways in many very different ways all the way from Central America all the way up to Afghanistan we've tried to help and not fully succeeded but I just find the Paula situation interesting because she is kind of I'm gonna say she's

[01:53:54] like an inadvertent colonialist she's trying very hard to help and then she flips the situation flips her into the other side suddenly she knows what it's like to be on top and not having to take responsibility and just like accepting your privilege

[01:54:12] she has the privilege of walking away from this situation she created yeah makes it just like anybody else colonialist probably do because they'd be like well the system's pretty big and it's kind of nice having someone serve me this drinks and I can't look in one person yep

[01:54:32] um I love what you said about Amanda I mean Armand and Belinda not maybe being the only ones that didn't have a transactional relationship or two of the only ones I did like their relationship a lot um Armand and his employees like that was a little transactional

[01:54:52] very transactional but they got their underwear and I will give you the day is off but saying I mean the rowers and Quinn I think that's transactional they needed someone to fill in because they had a guy who left or I forget what happened

[01:55:08] but and Quinn needed some spiritual invigoration it doesn't transactional doesn't bad or wrong I mean they're both very upfront about what they want from each other maybe that's what's a little bit different you know yeah or it's yeah there's not a power imbalance it's like a fair

[01:55:26] trade is being happening it's not manipulative at all it's just you need this I need this let's hey we're made for each other let's go get in the boat fucker exactly psychological microeconomic theory yeah all right here's what Greg had to say about season one

[01:55:48] Jason, Jenny and Randy due to life it took me a hot minute to actually finish season one as much as I would have enjoyed spending more time as the host of the black value like the Moscow appearance expectations of Quinn I had to come

[01:56:02] back to real life and the obligations that come with it but now I finished season one well I won't get the season two quite yet I do have some thoughts to share but I'll go back half of the first number one Paula was straight up Lady Macbeth

[01:56:16] convincing Kai to burgle the safe she deserves all the guilt she feels Kai did make his own choice but I can't imagine being set up to fail more spectacularly unless it was intentional number two Quinn was 100% my favorite story

[01:56:30] a lot of the season although I do find it difficult to believe that his parents didn't hunt him down like a dog and he was actually able to participate in the show number three Olivia just sucks perhaps when I have an entitled teenage daughter

[01:56:46] I'll feel more empathy towards her but the exertion of emotional power over Paula whether it be through harsh words pity or willful ignorance or for guilt just infuriated no desire to watch anymore of that character although the actor played the part phenomenally number four

[01:57:02] the Mossbacher parents ending was a little good I guess given they were drawn together by the traumatic experience but I don't know how long Mark's going to be able to milk being the hero unless he's going to engineer regular savior situations they've got to work on

[01:57:14] existing and living together number five Belinda damn it I knew it was going to happen but I was still just as upset as she was when the rich white lady who I can't remember her name failed on her

[01:57:30] the rich white people were able to use the staff's tragedy to their own benefit both Belinda and Kai and they were able to act with their lives as quote unquote better people number six fuck any fuck fuck fuck not Armand very disappointing

[01:57:46] although I did have my suspicions about him being in the casket early on especially as he continued his downward spiral for your last act on earth to be shit and do a douchey guest suitcase I guess this time here did end up being a big fuck you

[01:57:58] I didn't quite understand how douche McGee played right Rachel's husband got away with quote unquote self defense but I guess they figured out that Armand shit in the suitcase and then let douche McGee go based on self defense number seven and nothing I mean nothing

[01:58:16] made me more frustrated and sad than Rachel committing to douche McGee in the airport what a waste of a life I feel for but every action douche McGee took when she said she wasn't happy made me say hey girl

[01:58:30] you are making the right choice get the fuck away from this title bullpred and she couldn't do it but look on her face when she said I'll be happy I promise God my heart broke for a bit again she made her choice

[01:58:44] I just wish she could have been braver the same way that I wish I could be braver as I all in all a really great dark and sometimes comical drama and thanks a lot for the coverage good summation yeah I see in a season two

[01:59:00] if they stuck with the same characters Mark may be trying to set up another way for him to save his family and that being what like is his ultimate downfall in being the character who dies because of some Rube Goldberg type of

[01:59:16] assault on his family tries to set up alright that is our show thanks so much for listening everybody hope you're enjoying it next up is episode five that's a mole if you want to write in or send us a voice message about it

[01:59:42] that would be awesome you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com I say this every time I feel like people don't hear me because they're always asking me how to contact us go to podcastica.com you'll find it there while you're there be sure to

[01:59:54] check out our other shows well I want to mention a show that's not there actually I don't mention it on this podcast a lot for some reason I totally should but I have a patreon it's patreon.com you get ad free versions of this podcast

[02:00:08] and anything else I'm on and it's only $2 a month for that and you get to support the podcasting so it's totally worth it I hope you guys sign up but if you sign up at $5 you get my monthly patreon exclusive podcast the Zedhead show

[02:00:26] where I bring in different patrons and we talk about different pop culture topics and stuff but Randy introduced this awesome one this month this crazy idea where we did a zombie apocalypse improv it was me and Randy and Jenny Ryan who was the call we just played

[02:00:40] and your friend Robert yep and it was a lot of fun I was super nervous but laughing all the way through it was crazy for somebody who claimed to be so nervous I laughed so hard just basically everything you said so and we had Lucy on there

[02:01:00] co-host from the cast oh yeah don't know she was so funny it was a lot of fun and the patreon group is well worth it especially the facebook group I've made like a bunch of friends in there that I actually meet up with

[02:01:14] in the real world and we do trivia and stuff it's wild and we're all meeting in Boston next week yep that too been gotten really close with people in there and over the pandemic it was a huge lifesaver and we do like events sometimes over the month

[02:01:30] and stuff so again that's patreon.com slash chasing of assie love to see some of you guys over there and alright that is our show thanks for listening and remember I put fresh underwear on for you well just because of that we're gonna stick around then

[02:01:49] and we're gonna actually do a spoiler segment so if there's anyone out there who hasn't seen all of season 2 and doesn't want to get spoiled then bye bye ladies and gentlemen at this time we'll be switching over to spoiler hour so if you don't like spoilers

[02:02:05] I suggest you get the hell out go on and get get the hell out if you don't want spoilers get the hell out thank you ladies tip your podcasters I wanna mention something from last episode first Greg says Tanya found doctors for him and he's gonna live

[02:02:35] because of her and I'm wondering if that really happened and so maybe it wasn't the plan the whole time for him to kill her and take her money but maybe just hang out with her because she had money and enjoy that while he had life left

[02:02:51] but then she saved his life and so then he had to get rid of her it does seem likely that he's just like I can't do a few more years with you I had one year I could do but I need to get out of here

[02:03:03] because we were speculating whether it was the plan from the start when he first met her to Connor but Jenny didn't think so and now I'm thinking maybe not that it just developed as he got to know her better I feel like the script is indicating that

[02:03:17] I mean yeah you're gonna die meet a rich woman and put up with her corks so you can have fun in the past years and then now rich you have your life you know ending is not is not gonna be within the next six months

[02:03:31] and then you meet this hot chick in I don't know in Wyoming and suddenly your options have changed and if we go by the economic theory of human behavior he's weighing his options and it's like a good option would be to get rid of the annoying wife

[02:03:53] and I think he does have another lover too yeah so and then the other thing from last week is we see all these older gay guys smiling at Tanya in the restaurant and while that's happening Jack is peacocking at the pool in front of Portia

[02:04:11] and it's all part of this plan and they called in Jack to keep her busy and I didn't even realize and I know I feel dumb but until doing the podcast Jack's mission was to keep her busy like later on that season I kept wondering

[02:04:25] why is he keeping her from going back but now watching it again as I see Tanya just being or no not Tanya, Greg being so upset that she's there I realized well that's why they brought Jack in to keep her busy

[02:04:37] yeah that's to fix it because he wasn't expecting Portia to be there that wasn't part of the plan so what else I do think the conversation that Tanya is having with Quinton about the island and how a woman is persuaded to not persuaded

[02:04:57] a couple of locals in Sicily probably kill that woman for her wealth is sort of foreshadowing of what is happening currently that is a group of locals who are going to kill her for their wealth and that's when he invites her out onto the boat as well

[02:05:15] and that's where it happens and he says you're like the heroine of your own Italian opera and she goes does that mean I'm doomed and he goes no but yes yeah Jenny you got one I was thinking a lot about Albie's savior complex right because we know

[02:05:35] in the future he's going to fall prey to that he likes poor wounded pretty birds Lucia is going to fall into that category pretty soon and then I just started to think alright when you save a girl but it's kind of under the assumption that

[02:05:55] she will continue having sex with you right if follow you like when you help a guy you're just not like oh yeah you're coming to LA with me and I get to fuck you all the time so there's definitely a sort of transactional conditional

[02:06:11] thing to him saving her saving with clothes but at the same time it's understandable because he thinks he has a romantic relationship he thinks she likes him and we don't know for sure if he's expecting that life servitude but yeah it feels more like he's trying to help

[02:06:29] his girlfriend as opposed to a random woman but she's not his girlfriend and the way this was all set up you kind of made fun of me Jenny but because I didn't know for sure that she was playing him but this episode

[02:06:45] it made me remember why because she's saying I don't like this lifestyle anymore and then I already said this kind of before but she sees that he's been stood up and so I thought maybe some of her connection was genuine

[02:06:57] and I think that's what Mike White wanted us to think but when it turns out that she was scamming him the whole time it was supposed to be a twist and a bit of a shock but then like okay of course yeah I should have known

[02:07:07] but now that we know in hindsight it's clear she's sizing up the situation she's looking like oh here's a guy he's rich and he's feeling bad because he just got dumped so I'm going to swoop in and take an advantage of him and it's specifically because

[02:07:23] she's looking for the big score to get out of this life yeah interesting yep I do wonder I agree with that but I do wonder if maybe there is a point in like the next episode or two where there's more of a switch where she realizes like

[02:07:41] maybe in this episode she is just like oh I'm just going to have a fun day with this guy and then at some point she makes a connection and she's like oh I can scam him because well now I was watching and when she's looking

[02:07:53] at him and looking up at Jack and Portia I just see the gear starting yeah in retrospect you can say that but I still think that you know if I was watching when I was watching this episode with new eyes I was just like it's either way

[02:08:09] because you know that's the thing about a woman's choice it's her choice and we have no idea what's going on in her head right now I think she's scamming him but I think she likes him too yeah that's right yeah I think the only

[02:08:21] thing that makes me wonder is that we've seen so many we get so many just her shots where it seems like she's genuinely questioning it and it's almost like they're giving us information there which could just be she could just be questioning her line of

[02:08:37] work but being like well I still have to go to work like so it could be people I mean like I said I think she's decided I don't like this so let me get one last big score and then last is Rocco is always talking to Isabella

[02:08:53] I totally did not notice that before every episode we see them because I remember before when she said oh I want to I'm Rocco and I are getting married that came out of nowhere but now it's like nope they're totally flirting and everything every episode

[02:09:07] and I just remember thinking like if I was Valentina I don't care if they're married or not I just feel like you guys do not work well together right yeah you are distracting each other so I think you guys getting married but like

[02:09:21] you work over there you go over there yeah I feel like even in a workplace it probably isn't great to have a married couple working that closely because you're like if you guys had a bad night and now you're both at the front desk come on

[02:09:35] or what if they were doing a podcast it just would not yeah you can't work together with your wife anything else I think the island that they're pointing to it does get connected by a short beach and I think that's where Daphne and Ethan walk off to

[02:09:57] towards the end so they've revealed this island that has some potential future use of and then Jack the naughty nephew tells Portia he doesn't mind all the gay guys grabbing his ass and his junk all the time because he says like that's what happens and she's like

[02:10:17] oh do you mind? he's like yeah I don't mind which now we know why he doesn't mind he actually enjoys it he's an uncle fucker yeah he's a naughty nephew he's a sloth uncle fucker but you have to admit you have a little bit more sympathy

[02:10:35] for Jack in the future right because you get the sense he came from a traumatic childhood and if being saved by gay murderous con men is your idea of being saved it comes with pretty bad background yeah for sure alright I think that's good