12: "Abductions" (S2E6)

[00:00:00] Very true, the world's a fucked up place, oh.

[00:00:11] What's wrong with it?

[00:00:15] You joking?

[00:00:16] Pretty fucking good world I'd say.

[00:00:19] Literally everything's falling apart.

[00:00:22] You'd rather live in the middle ages than what you are.

[00:00:24] You know, ripping each other shreds, yeah?

[00:00:26] They were way worse than ISIS or any of them lot.

[00:00:31] That is fucking miracle anyone's even left in Europe.

[00:00:34] All you've been doing is just fucking hacking each other bits and burn each other at the state.

[00:00:41] I'm ready to drink up a beer.

[00:00:44] What I'm saying is right, you're fucking lucky.

[00:00:47] You know what I mean?

[00:00:48] We're living in the best time in history of the world on the best fucking planet.

[00:00:56] If you can't be satisfied living now, here, you're never gonna be satisfied.

[00:01:02] So let's get pissed, eh?

[00:01:07] Hello, welcome to the White Lotus, a podcast dedicated to the show, The White Lotus.

[00:01:25] We're the resort managers.

[00:01:26] If you need anything, let us know.

[00:01:29] And please enjoy your stay.

[00:01:31] Hey, everybody, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:37] I'm Jason.

[00:01:38] And I'm Jenny.

[00:01:39] And I'm Randy.

[00:01:40] And I'm Jenny.

[00:01:42] And I'm Jenny.

[00:01:44] This episode we're covering The White Lotus season two episode six, abductions.

[00:01:48] But instead of an abduction, we have an addition.

[00:01:50] It's Jenny Ryan.

[00:01:51] Welcome to the podcast, Jenny.

[00:01:53] I'm very excited to be here.

[00:01:56] Jenny, you might recognize Jenny's voice.

[00:01:58] She's been listening along with us and calling in with great comments.

[00:02:01] I'm grateful for you for calling in.

[00:02:04] Now we're going to get to hear more of that before we get started.

[00:02:06] I'm just curious.

[00:02:08] What is it about this show?

[00:02:09] Like, why do you like The White Lotus?

[00:02:13] I really like character driven stuff.

[00:02:18] And so I think what I like about it is the fact that it's so much about character

[00:02:23] and then the plot comes from the character.

[00:02:25] Like, sometimes television programs seem like they write a plot and then they stick characters

[00:02:30] in to make the plot happen.

[00:02:32] And I feel like Mike White started with people and then was like, what happens if you put

[00:02:36] all these people in a room?

[00:02:38] And this plot wouldn't happen without these particular characters.

[00:02:40] And so I really like it as a character.

[00:02:42] It almost feels like a, especially the progression with Tanya.

[00:02:47] Like it's we're getting kind of a anyway, it's a character study.

[00:02:52] Really.

[00:02:53] It really is.

[00:02:54] Yeah.

[00:02:55] It's a mystery, but it's actually a character progression and a character study.

[00:02:58] And I like that.

[00:02:59] So yeah.

[00:03:00] And I think my sense, I mean, I totally agree with you and I love it for that reason too,

[00:03:04] especially because when you do character well to me, that means you understand people

[00:03:09] and how people work.

[00:03:11] And that's, I just feel so connected with good writing in that way where I don't

[00:03:15] know if there's something really, really special about it.

[00:03:17] I think Mike White also just has themes in mind, you know, so it's sex this time, sex

[00:03:23] politics and stuff, which is stuff everyone can really interesting.

[00:03:27] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:03:29] Yeah.

[00:03:30] Also, I mean, I didn't mean to have this be me getting to tell you why I like it.

[00:03:34] But now I'm thinking about that.

[00:03:36] And it's so it's adult, you know, and we're watching all this superheroes.

[00:03:41] And I think I said this when we first started the podcast, but it's so

[00:03:44] refreshing to just get into something that feels more like something an adult

[00:03:49] would watch back when I was a kid, you know, watching stuff that kids would

[00:03:53] watch now that I'm an adult.

[00:03:54] Yeah, it doesn't feel like this is designed to hit the like target demographic.

[00:03:59] That's usually what TV is designed for.

[00:04:02] It's a little more niche and that that challenging a little bit.

[00:04:05] Yeah.

[00:04:06] Yeah, it has been hard preparing because my children refused to like I live

[00:04:10] in a tiny dollhouse and my children never I'm like, guys, I have to

[00:04:13] watch a very adult program.

[00:04:16] You can't be here.

[00:04:18] Yeah, I'm watching it on a plane with.

[00:04:21] This episode opens the same way.

[00:04:23] So I was like, did I start with the wrong one?

[00:04:26] I did the same thing.

[00:04:29] All right, let's get into this week's episode at season two, episode six.

[00:04:34] Abductions.

[00:04:36] Jenny Quo, what what did you think?

[00:04:38] You haven't said much yet.

[00:04:39] Oh, sorry.

[00:04:40] I have a cold.

[00:04:41] So I don't want to say too much in case we're all sick.

[00:04:43] Break it into a coughing fit.

[00:04:45] But we are two of us.

[00:04:46] No, it was it was a good episode.

[00:04:49] I mean, it had it's hard to say because it had just some really

[00:04:54] exciting points and some really cringy points and really like anxious

[00:04:59] points.

[00:05:00] So I thought it was pretty emotionally pretty well done

[00:05:04] because it pulls you into all of those things.

[00:05:06] And yet it still seems to be like here's a bunch of people at a hotel.

[00:05:10] So, yeah, I really enjoyed it.

[00:05:14] I mean, I don't think I I don't think there's a single episode that I'm

[00:05:17] like, I don't enjoy.

[00:05:18] I've I've liked this series.

[00:05:19] So I mean, I'm just going to keep repeating myself episode after episode.

[00:05:23] This episode, the only other show I can think of that has that for me is

[00:05:28] Breaking Bad.

[00:05:28] I don't think there was one episode I didn't like and that's impressive

[00:05:31] because of five seasons show.

[00:05:33] But yeah, I feel the same way with this show so far.

[00:05:36] This episode I felt was dark, like darker than any

[00:05:39] episode of the White Lotus so far.

[00:05:41] That's what really made it stand out for me and I enjoyed that.

[00:05:44] What about you?

[00:05:45] Well, let's ask Jenny, what did you think?

[00:05:48] I was really excited that this is the one I got to talk about

[00:05:50] because I loved it.

[00:05:53] It looks amazing.

[00:05:55] So many of the images just look like especially the stuff

[00:05:59] in the party and at the Quinten's House just look like

[00:06:02] Renaissance paintings.

[00:06:03] Like it just looks beautiful.

[00:06:05] The lighting is amazing and everybody.

[00:06:08] Well, I mean, that's one of my the only point I have really.

[00:06:11] So I'll keep it a secret.

[00:06:13] But yeah, but it looks beautiful and and it does turn like it becomes darker.

[00:06:20] And so we're no longer in like a everything starts to crumble

[00:06:24] like an Italian ruin.

[00:06:27] Yeah. So yeah, I really I was pretty excited.

[00:06:30] This is one talk about because I feel like there's a lot to say.

[00:06:32] Oh, that's good because I think you were supposed to come on one or two others

[00:06:36] and we kept having to push it.

[00:06:37] So we landed on a good one.

[00:06:39] Yeah. Yeah. Randy.

[00:06:41] Yeah, I also enjoyed this.

[00:06:43] And yeah, I like the the term you used how it's crumbling

[00:06:47] because it is very much like the frescoes and stuff that they show in the intro

[00:06:51] where it's all beautiful paintings.

[00:06:53] And as the intro music comes along, you start seeing more

[00:06:56] like broken columns and things like that.

[00:06:58] So this is that being actualized.

[00:07:02] And this is just like this episode for me.

[00:07:05] It was really about like how having trust with somebody or a lack of trust

[00:07:11] and somebody can affect your thoughts and then that affects your reality.

[00:07:15] And I think almost every character in this episode

[00:07:18] is perceiving reality not quite correctly, or they are starting to perceive it correctly.

[00:07:24] And I can I'll go into that a little bit more.

[00:07:26] But yeah, super interesting episode.

[00:07:28] Yeah, it's it.

[00:07:29] I didn't think I always think of the show as like a boiling pot

[00:07:32] that, you know, gets more and more heated up as the season goes along.

[00:07:36] But to think of it as a decaying Italian structure or something like that.

[00:07:40] Yeah, it's all falling apart.

[00:07:44] All right, let's get into our points.

[00:07:46] Who wants to go first?

[00:07:47] I'll start because mine's a real basic one

[00:07:50] that I'm not going to go super into depth with

[00:07:53] because I think it would go into everything.

[00:07:55] But it is kind of how everybody is seeing their reality

[00:08:00] and how other people's dishonesty is maybe affecting the way they see it.

[00:08:06] One of the overt ones is Harper when it comes to Ethan.

[00:08:10] This episode, she's dealing with the fact that she probably still thinks he cheated on her.

[00:08:15] We know he didn't, but things keep happening in this episode

[00:08:19] to back that thought up for her.

[00:08:21] So she sees him talking to Lucia and Mia.

[00:08:25] And if you found out your husband spent the night

[00:08:28] with two sex workers and did Molly with them and he said nothing happened.

[00:08:32] But then the next day, he's still interacting with them.

[00:08:35] There's no way you're going to believe that Cameron didn't pay them.

[00:08:39] So he's just getting that news.

[00:08:42] Like there's no way she can believe that.

[00:08:44] So I think she's unfortunately stuck in this permanent thought of like

[00:08:48] my reality is my husband cheated on me.

[00:08:52] Or at least there's doubt, right?

[00:08:53] Yes. Yeah.

[00:08:54] And it's interesting how with this show,

[00:08:56] we've talked about how flirting can be ambiguous and and so can.

[00:09:02] This is like the opposite of flirting.

[00:09:03] It's like feeling doubt about your relationship, right?

[00:09:07] But still like ambiguous.

[00:09:09] Yeah. And then there's more clues that are just like burying it a little bit more.

[00:09:14] I think the obvious one for this episode is Ethan

[00:09:18] because we do see what he's picturing in his mind happened between Cameron and Harper.

[00:09:25] I think the first so well done.

[00:09:27] Yeah, he's it's like he's there in the room, which yeah,

[00:09:31] if that was true, it would be even more.

[00:09:33] That's kind of how he feels like it's my wife and my best friend.

[00:09:37] Right? Yeah. Right there in my room, I was looking right there.

[00:09:40] And it's nothing he can do.

[00:09:42] I feel like not to this extreme, obviously, but I've been in that position

[00:09:47] where you're like, I know this is probably not what happened.

[00:09:50] But like, you know, I feel like those people are talking about me

[00:09:53] and you can't get that little thing out of your mind.

[00:09:56] So I can see Ethan is doing the exact same thing,

[00:10:00] but he has created a timeline that I think works for

[00:10:05] the amount of time it took for him to like knock on the door.

[00:10:08] So we're seeing that.

[00:10:09] And then that's totally plausible.

[00:10:11] Everything he thought seemed like that could have made me think.

[00:10:15] I remember when I first watched that, that is what happened.

[00:10:17] I know because we don't really see too many like dream sequences or like

[00:10:21] it's usually like a play style.

[00:10:23] You're seeing what's happening.

[00:10:24] So then seeing that you are just like, maybe that happened.

[00:10:28] Like why would they show that to us?

[00:10:30] But it really solidifies its in his mind.

[00:10:32] So I think it's again, it's sort of proof of why character drives this

[00:10:36] because by setting it up that Ethan and Harper don't really have a sexual relationship.

[00:10:42] They are worried about the other person.

[00:10:46] But I think if they had either were content with not sleeping with each other

[00:10:50] but still were affectionate or whatever, loved each other,

[00:10:53] but just weren't having sex or if they were having sex

[00:10:58] in a way that satisfied them.

[00:10:59] But because that part of their relationship is confusing and unsatisfactory,

[00:11:04] they both suspect the other.

[00:11:05] But I think that if they were like having a sexual relationship,

[00:11:12] then Ethan wouldn't be worried.

[00:11:14] I just think that there's but he knows she really wants it.

[00:11:16] And so yeah, so it's it wouldn't have made sense if they were a couple

[00:11:22] that had sex regularly and then to have this happen.

[00:11:26] They'd be like, well, so really plays into that paranoia, which is because I think

[00:11:32] I mean, I've been talking about the forces that have come together

[00:11:36] to make this kind of thing happen with Cameron and Harper.

[00:11:42] She's been wanting sex and passion with each Ethan and he's been ignoring her.

[00:11:46] She wants to be wanted sexually by her partner, but I'm sure just it hurts her

[00:11:52] just to not be wanted at all.

[00:11:54] You know, so when Cameron comes along flirting with her,

[00:11:57] I think she couldn't help but feel some like feel,

[00:12:03] I don't know, something good about that, you know, even though she doesn't

[00:12:06] like him as a person, he's passionate, unlike Ethan, who's a huge dud

[00:12:10] and totally withdrawn and he's all over Daphne all the time.

[00:12:15] And also she sees him as higher status and as much as we maybe intellectually

[00:12:19] don't want to let that impact us, I think sometimes you can't help it.

[00:12:24] She knows Ethan wants his approval.

[00:12:26] Now, she likes you said, Jenny, she thinks Ethan betrayed her.

[00:12:29] So she's not as connected with him.

[00:12:30] That loyalty bond is kind of broken.

[00:12:33] She's also been getting an earful from Daphne about just doing what you want.

[00:12:37] And the only way to make it OK if your partner

[00:12:40] cheated or you think they did is to do what you want to.

[00:12:43] And then, of course, Cameron's been pushing for this because he always has to

[00:12:47] one up Ethan and we've learned that he has a history of getting the women

[00:12:50] he knows Ethan is interested in.

[00:12:51] So there's just all this stuff that makes it seem like, yeah, I can see

[00:12:55] that this maybe did happen, you know?

[00:12:57] OK, so I also noted that it went from, you know, a point of Harper's

[00:13:03] point of view, right?

[00:13:04] And if we don't know what happened with Ethan, but we also see

[00:13:06] it from Ethan's point of view so we know nothing happened.

[00:13:09] And then suddenly now all we see is Ethan's point of view.

[00:13:12] We never see Harper's point of view.

[00:13:13] But just might quite setting up the like, well, what do you think kind of

[00:13:17] scenario, which he does pretty well with so far throughout this whole series

[00:13:22] in which you're like, is that guy good or bad?

[00:13:24] Don't know. Right.

[00:13:25] Some things you'll show and this is definitely one that he hasn't shown.

[00:13:29] I do also want to record my my.

[00:13:33] I agree with everything you say, Jason, except for one thing,

[00:13:36] which I also felt the first time watching series, which is I'm still

[00:13:39] not sure she wants to do Cameron.

[00:13:40] I mean, I really am not sure why you keep saying like, oh, he's higher

[00:13:44] status and she acknowledged I'm just like, whatever.

[00:13:46] She sees him as a douche.

[00:13:48] And even at this episode where we're supposed to think there's a chance

[00:13:52] she did have, I'm just there's a part of just like no way.

[00:13:55] Anyone who saw this guy over the past five days would not want to do him.

[00:14:01] I mean, ill.

[00:14:03] I mean, the little you can get little clues.

[00:14:05] And I thought about going back to get the exact dialogue, but it didn't.

[00:14:09] But the way she's talked to Ethan about Cameron, she's like, I know you want his

[00:14:13] approval and he's like, no, I don't.

[00:14:15] And, you know, she said things to make it.

[00:14:18] You can infer that she sees Cameron as having higher status.

[00:14:23] That's all I'm saying.

[00:14:24] And I know because I feel like I understand human behavior that

[00:14:29] the people with higher status sometimes you find yourself attracted

[00:14:34] to them even despite yourself.

[00:14:35] Look at celebrities.

[00:14:36] That's like, oh, my husband has a hang up with his old college roommate.

[00:14:42] That doesn't mean higher status.

[00:14:45] I mean, well, if one person wants the approval of someone else, then

[00:14:50] like, I just this is not something we even think about.

[00:14:52] But no, you're thinking, oh, it's because he's higher status, right?

[00:14:55] And you're like, what?

[00:14:57] No, I had nothing to do with that.

[00:14:59] Had totally to do with his personality and Jenny, right?

[00:15:01] I think you are muted.

[00:15:02] Yes, I was going to say but it's good I was muted because I was going

[00:15:05] to interrupt you.

[00:15:06] So but I think it's also it doesn't even matter if he's like it's a way to punish

[00:15:12] Ethan, so he she knows maybe subconsciously that getting with this idiot,

[00:15:19] even though he's a douche and she doesn't like him,

[00:15:22] she knows it'll irritate her husband.

[00:15:24] So whether it happens or not, is she doing this because she wants to punish

[00:15:28] Ethan for the sex workers and the Molly and the ignoring her?

[00:15:33] I don't know. Anyway.

[00:15:34] But I don't think she wants to punish him because she doesn't

[00:15:38] she doesn't want him to know about it.

[00:15:41] I mean, maybe going off to have a drink with him could be that, you know,

[00:15:46] right in front of Ethan, but I don't think Harper wants Ethan to know if

[00:15:51] if assuming anything did happen between Cameron and Harper.

[00:15:54] I don't think so.

[00:15:56] Maybe it's a way like Daphne does.

[00:15:58] It's kind of like, OK, if he did something, then I'm going to do

[00:16:01] something too so I can feel even.

[00:16:03] But it's punishment implies that I need him to know about it, you know?

[00:16:08] Well, it was really telling when Harper they're having that conversation in the

[00:16:12] morning and Harper says, do you even want me?

[00:16:16] And he replies, but I love you.

[00:16:18] And I'm like, oh, that's not the same though.

[00:16:20] There's a lot of people I want that I don't love.

[00:16:22] And she knows Cameron wants her sexually.

[00:16:25] Yes. And there's something.

[00:16:27] I'm sorry, Jenny.

[00:16:28] We just don't agree on this.

[00:16:29] I think well, but there's something attractive about that just knowing that

[00:16:33] someone wants you, you know, he's also there.

[00:16:38] Like there's no other options at this point.

[00:16:41] If she had a lineup of better guys, she might be to someone.

[00:16:45] Yeah, leaning towards somebody else.

[00:16:46] And I also think that the impression we've been given about her and Ethan is

[00:16:52] that they don't really have sex that often.

[00:16:54] And I think she's getting a little bit of the energy from Cameron of like,

[00:16:59] all right, I'm kind of into him maybe or like she's getting some sexual energy

[00:17:04] from him. So she makes multiple efforts above and beyond what she normally does

[00:17:09] with Ethan to try and have sex with him.

[00:17:11] And I think that's a little bit of her being like, all right,

[00:17:14] I'm getting something from this that I am either going to now aim at my own

[00:17:18] relationship or like, I really need to work on my relationship in this way.

[00:17:23] And I think that also points a little bit to like,

[00:17:26] she's aware there is something between her and Cameron.

[00:17:29] Well, yeah, I think she gets a sense that if she said yes, he would fuck her.

[00:17:34] Yeah.

[00:17:35] You know, so he's available, as you say, whether she wants to take him up on

[00:17:40] that offer, I mean, I guess it's going to depend on how she reacts to alcohol

[00:17:45] because, you know, I would think sober.

[00:17:48] She'd just be like, no.

[00:17:50] I mean, so for me, yeah, we just don't agree on this

[00:17:53] because I remember when I watched this the first time,

[00:17:56] I thought from the very first episode, I think these two are going to have sex.

[00:17:59] And I think despite herself, she's going to end up in his bed because

[00:18:04] she's protesting a lot and logically she doesn't she wouldn't like a guy like

[00:18:08] this, but I feel this magnet pulling these two together.

[00:18:12] And then it well, I don't know.

[00:18:13] We can't really say whether it happened or not.

[00:18:15] But then that leads me to try to remember how I felt in this episode.

[00:18:19] Do I think something happened between them?

[00:18:21] And I think I remember being like, no, no, no.

[00:18:24] And then and then as soon as Ethan had that vision, I was like, oh, wait.

[00:18:28] Yeah, I think maybe it did, you know, but you don't know for sure.

[00:18:32] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:34] Yep.

[00:18:36] All right.

[00:18:38] Well, what else, Randy?

[00:18:39] Yeah, let me know if these are

[00:18:41] stepping on anybody's points.

[00:18:43] I'll try and go a little more general with this as well.

[00:18:47] But yeah, just people's

[00:18:49] perceptions being messed with a little bit is

[00:18:53] I think Tanya is trying really hard not to see what's going on around her.

[00:18:57] But she is starting to a glimpse of something.

[00:18:59] So I think she's starting to actually notice the lies.

[00:19:04] And there's a couple of things that gets distracted.

[00:19:06] Exactly.

[00:19:07] Penis. Yeah.

[00:19:09] Well, I think she

[00:19:11] is intentionally distracting herself.

[00:19:13] I don't think she wants to see something wrong.

[00:19:16] She's finally found this group that she like is having a great time with.

[00:19:20] She feels like the center of the world.

[00:19:22] So she doesn't want to get rid of that.

[00:19:24] And we can go into that deeper more later.

[00:19:28] And then Albie is being shown a story, it seems like.

[00:19:32] Like we've everything we've seen of Lucia up to this point implies she's

[00:19:37] like this independent woman and now like this episode, she's like really pushing

[00:19:42] in on like, no, I'm like being forced into doing this.

[00:19:46] And all of my money goes to somebody, which is not what we've been seeing

[00:19:51] up until this point.

[00:19:52] So it feels like either he's starting to see behind a lie or he's being shown

[00:19:57] something and then Valentina just sees every man as harassing Isabella,

[00:20:06] essentially, and I think it's because she's somebody she's interested in.

[00:20:10] So in order to save her, her reality is like,

[00:20:14] Isabella is miserable with this entire world and I've got to.

[00:20:17] I'm the only one that can help her with that and should be the apple of her eye.

[00:20:22] And then the last one is

[00:20:25] Korsha up until this point has been seeing a fun loving guy with Jack.

[00:20:31] And towards the end of this, she suddenly

[00:20:34] she's had the impression like, oh, yeah, he's just like a nice guy who just

[00:20:37] wants to show me an adventure.

[00:20:38] And now she's kind of seeing behind that veil a little bit.

[00:20:42] So I feel like that happens to a lot of us when

[00:20:46] someone's exciting and you get caught up in it.

[00:20:49] But then you hang out for a while and you start to think,

[00:20:53] all right, what else?

[00:20:54] What else is there when she's asking him about his goals?

[00:20:56] You know, it's like, could I see myself having a long term thing with this guy?

[00:21:02] And then that's the question you ask.

[00:21:03] What are your goals anyway?

[00:21:05] Yeah.

[00:21:06] So yeah, those are those are my general thoughts on kind of the theme of this episode.

[00:21:12] Actually, I'd like to go to the the the Jack being seen more seen.

[00:21:19] What were you trying to say that he just, you know, can I there's less there

[00:21:23] because you want to have a long term relationship?

[00:21:24] If anything, I felt like in this episode, there was a lot there way too much.

[00:21:29] Like it got real fast.

[00:21:31] He's like, oh, thank you.

[00:21:32] And suddenly he goes from like deeply philosophical with Gelato and the

[00:21:36] waterfront to like this deep, deep hole in his past.

[00:21:42] And you're just like, oh, OK.

[00:21:45] That that that got real fast.

[00:21:48] And you can see it in her face.

[00:21:50] She's just kind of like, this is not what I signed up for.

[00:21:53] Yeah.

[00:21:54] He becomes a really tragic figure.

[00:21:57] I mean, I always I always figured like when you realize he's not the

[00:22:03] when as soon as we realize he's not the nephew,

[00:22:05] Jack becomes really tragic to me.

[00:22:08] And even presumably not the nephew.

[00:22:10] Yeah, yeah.

[00:22:12] And if he is.

[00:22:13] I mean, if he is.

[00:22:15] Yeah, that's more tragic.

[00:22:16] Yeah.

[00:22:17] And you know when he's like people don't party that hard

[00:22:24] constantly unless they're sad.

[00:22:27] Yeah.

[00:22:27] And she kind of figures that out.

[00:22:30] And even when he's like, this world is amazing.

[00:22:32] Because at first because it was interesting how when they were sitting by

[00:22:35] the waterfront and he promised her, he's like, we're going to get Gelato.

[00:22:40] And then he doesn't get any.

[00:22:42] So she's like still living the dream of eating Gelato with this cute boy on

[00:22:46] the waterfront and he's drinking.

[00:22:48] And then he says, what's wrong with it?

[00:22:50] It really echoes Cam and Daphne who are like, what's wrong with the world?

[00:22:54] But then when he's like, everything's great.

[00:22:55] Everything's amazing.

[00:22:56] This is the best time to be alive.

[00:22:59] And I'm like, oh, he's really.

[00:23:02] He's doth protesting too much, I guess.

[00:23:04] Like the whole everything's amazing and my life is the best and I can party

[00:23:07] and I can do whatever I need to.

[00:23:08] But you're like, oh, you're just patching over deep, deep sadness and despair.

[00:23:14] And I feel like Jack is

[00:23:18] he's a potential for for early death.

[00:23:21] Like I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up in the water.

[00:23:26] Well, I think when when he first said those words, yeah, you're like,

[00:23:30] oh, he suddenly went from like a douche to like,

[00:23:33] well, there's something kind of profound about what he said.

[00:23:35] And then, of course, within like three hours, you're like, oh, no, that was

[00:23:40] as he said, it went from like profoundly happy to profoundly sad really quickly.

[00:23:46] I mean, when he was saying that,

[00:23:49] you know, how is how it's better today than in medieval times?

[00:23:53] We're lucky.

[00:23:55] He says we're living in the best time in history of the world on the best

[00:23:58] fucking planet if you can't be satisfied living now here, you're never going to be

[00:24:01] satisfied. I find there's a lot of truth to that, honestly.

[00:24:04] It's absolutely not that simple.

[00:24:06] There's a lot to worry about.

[00:24:08] Climate change could just eclipse anything I'm about to say because I'm

[00:24:13] so worried about that.

[00:24:14] But I also do think it's a good, good to take time to appreciate what's

[00:24:18] good and appreciate the progress that's been made in the areas that we care

[00:24:21] about, you know, even while we need to push to make more progress,

[00:24:24] there has been progress made in a lot of areas.

[00:24:27] There's also backsliding going on.

[00:24:28] But anyway, but it is good to appreciate where you are and not just be

[00:24:35] feel like things suck all the time because there's a lot to appreciate.

[00:24:39] And I think he's right on.

[00:24:40] And I do.

[00:24:41] I think you guys are right that that's a lot about just him sort of going

[00:24:44] along because he's not in a great situation.

[00:24:47] But also if you look at it from a slightly different perspective,

[00:24:50] clearly he's had this really awful past.

[00:24:53] Maybe he was addicted to heroin or something like that or just on the

[00:24:57] streets or all of the above.

[00:24:59] And then Quentin came in and kind of rescued him, but with a lot of

[00:25:04] strings attached.

[00:25:05] But but still I think he feels like his life is so much better now

[00:25:10] because of Quentin.

[00:25:12] And and it I could see someone like that being like, look, man,

[00:25:17] you don't know where I came from.

[00:25:19] And now I'm just loving my life now or at least it's so much better.

[00:25:24] Now, I don't why are you complaining?

[00:25:26] Like, God, I'm alive.

[00:25:27] I thought I was going to be dead.

[00:25:29] So I don't think it's as simple just to say, oh, no, no, no, you

[00:25:32] can't trust anything you said.

[00:25:33] It's all bullshit and he's a tragic figure.

[00:25:34] I think there is some truth in there about that.

[00:25:38] Sure.

[00:25:38] But I also think he probably feels like he's not allowed to complain.

[00:25:41] Like he's probably like, I can't be mad at this because this is so

[00:25:45] much better than I would when I came from.

[00:25:47] Maybe he's like, but I also can't tell Quentin to stop making me do all

[00:25:51] these things I don't want because he's like, you got to do things you

[00:25:53] don't want to do sometimes.

[00:25:55] You're like, oh, God, he's at the beginning of if he has a positive

[00:25:58] journey in his life, if it ends up being positive and not dead like we

[00:26:01] said a minute ago, then he's he's early on in that.

[00:26:05] Well, I mean what he's trying it almost sounds like what he's trying

[00:26:09] to say is like, you know, we do these awful things.

[00:26:12] But compared to what I had to experience, like it's worth it.

[00:26:15] Like it's worth for him to do this awful thing that we don't quite

[00:26:19] know what he's doing, but he knows he's doing and he's just.

[00:26:22] But he's drinking himself into a stupor so clearly.

[00:26:25] Yeah, yeah.

[00:26:26] He's not happy.

[00:26:26] And that's so early in the interactions with a new person that

[00:26:31] he's hanging out with.

[00:26:32] Like that's a pretty big red flag if somebody on like your third

[00:26:36] date is belligerently drunk pretty immediately.

[00:26:39] It's not a good sign that they control that very well.

[00:26:43] I mean, I love this.

[00:26:45] Jack.

[00:26:47] It's because Portia's into him because he's edgy and exciting

[00:26:52] and a little bit dangerous.

[00:26:53] But when he's drinking here, he's lost that connection that he

[00:26:56] had with her that could make that more exciting.

[00:26:59] And he's more extremely aggressive in a way that's not

[00:27:02] appealing at all.

[00:27:03] And you can see her just don't even touch me, you know.

[00:27:05] And it felt so real to see that.

[00:27:07] And so then I'm like, oh man, he's total fucking dick.

[00:27:10] And then he has like starts revealing more about himself.

[00:27:13] And I'm like, oh, I kind of feel for him though, even though I

[00:27:16] probably wouldn't want to spend time around this guy.

[00:27:18] I still feel for him, which is great.

[00:27:20] The White Lotus can do so many different characters.

[00:27:22] That happened to me this episode as well.

[00:27:24] I've been hating on Jack pretty hard.

[00:27:26] And in this episode, I was like, all right, you're

[00:27:29] winning me over a little bit.

[00:27:31] And then I was like, no, you're losing me a little bit.

[00:27:33] And I was like, God damn it, you're winning me back over

[00:27:35] a little bit.

[00:27:36] Stop it.

[00:27:38] I do think it's funny that he is wearing a hat that says cock

[00:27:41] on it the whole time.

[00:27:42] And you're just like, yeah, this guy is a dick sometimes.

[00:27:47] I, to me, the overwhelming thesis of this episode.

[00:27:52] So this is my point is that it's called

[00:27:55] abductions, but I feel like it could have been called

[00:27:57] something like something about dreams.

[00:28:01] Because every single one of these characters is living their

[00:28:04] dream.

[00:28:05] And some of them only Valentinas is fulfilled and

[00:28:08] everyone else gets to see their dream and it's terrible.

[00:28:12] So for instance, Portia, her dream was to be with this

[00:28:16] hot guy who just like she doesn't want to be with Albie.

[00:28:20] But then as we've discussed, the dream falls apart

[00:28:23] and there's some foreshadowing when he like jump scares

[00:28:25] her in the behind from behind the tree.

[00:28:28] And he's like, did I scare the widow baby?

[00:28:31] And she's like, OK.

[00:28:33] And then it sort of sets you up like he's going to continue

[00:28:35] to scare the little baby.

[00:28:38] So they're sitting by the water and then she's like.

[00:28:42] Yeah. Exactly.

[00:28:44] And when she tries to bring up the business about what are

[00:28:47] your goals, it's like she's trying to recreate what she

[00:28:49] had with Albie all of a sudden.

[00:28:52] And he's not that he's like, what the fuck is this?

[00:28:55] That's not what we do.

[00:28:56] And so she she she's just so depressed because she's

[00:29:00] like, oh man, this is what I thought I wanted and actually

[00:29:02] is terrible.

[00:29:03] Tanya, she was fascinating about her is that she tells

[00:29:07] that story about being a little doll dressed up.

[00:29:11] She's like, they dressed me up.

[00:29:12] And then so she starts to talk about how she's suspicious.

[00:29:15] She's like, that's what I think they made me into a doll.

[00:29:18] I and then she's like, I think something weird is going on here.

[00:29:21] But she switches the minute Quinton's like, you're OK.

[00:29:24] You're the guest of honor.

[00:29:26] And all of a sudden she's like, oh, and then she

[00:29:28] forgets all of the suspicions because she's gets to dress up

[00:29:32] and be that little like that ridiculous hair and that crazy

[00:29:35] dress. So I'm like, you are a child.

[00:29:37] You are. She also looked like she could be sacrificed in that dress.

[00:29:41] Like so she's like empty inside.

[00:29:45] She talks about being empty inside.

[00:29:46] So they they fill it with compliments.

[00:29:49] And she says you end up if you're empty inside, you end up

[00:29:52] in strange places, but you're still lost.

[00:29:54] And then it's exactly what happens to her.

[00:29:56] But she thinks like she just she lets them do whatever they want

[00:30:01] with her. And she's like, I mean, even when she's doing cocaine

[00:30:03] and those two men hold her hair.

[00:30:05] Yeah. Because like, oh, ladies, you are in trouble.

[00:30:11] So that was my little Tanya's dream.

[00:30:13] And then Dominic, you've all been there.

[00:30:15] Yeah. That's why I cut the hair short on my sides.

[00:30:19] And it doesn't fall into my cocaine.

[00:30:21] Yeah. Dominic and Bert, their dream of like

[00:30:25] well, especially Bert, he's like, he I don't know what these guys are thinking.

[00:30:30] They show up without having learned any Italian yet.

[00:30:33] They're like, we're Sicilian, but they know no Italian.

[00:30:36] They show up in this town expecting a fucking parade.

[00:30:39] I don't know anyway.

[00:30:41] And then when they're angry at these women who also were like,

[00:30:45] there's three women of different generations.

[00:30:47] Yeah, I know there's three men and the women are like, get out of here.

[00:30:50] We don't need you.

[00:30:52] And they're so sad.

[00:30:54] I think Bert is hoping to be embraced and he can be forgiven for all the mistakes

[00:30:59] he made, he can be forgiven by his like, he's like, all you want is the embrace

[00:31:03] of a woman or whatever to tell you you did it.

[00:31:06] Because, you know, his wife was like, I think it's when I'm saying like,

[00:31:09] I know I messed up my marriage and whatever.

[00:31:12] So they're so entitled.

[00:31:13] They don't even they didn't learn like, where is your Duolingo?

[00:31:16] You didn't even and then Albie's like, oh, there's an app.

[00:31:19] And then Bert doesn't even say his mother's name.

[00:31:22] I'm like, he's like, maybe it's the woman's sister,

[00:31:25] but he doesn't even say my mother was Maria or whatever.

[00:31:28] You know, so like they're just delusional.

[00:31:32] And I feel like that's overstated.

[00:31:33] Well, that's your that's your take on it.

[00:31:36] But for me, I was like, God, why are they so hostile?

[00:31:39] Like they I mean, it's unfortunate that Bert and Dominic's translator

[00:31:46] had to go away.

[00:31:46] But then again, on the other hand, that was Albie's idea.

[00:31:50] So they did plan to go there without a translator

[00:31:52] or having learned any time.

[00:31:53] So you definitely have a good point there.

[00:31:55] They were going to get a translator from the hotel and there maybe.

[00:31:58] And then I mean, when Albie said, Albie said,

[00:32:01] I found a translator, then Dominic said, good thinking.

[00:32:05] So it sounds like it was Albie's idea that Dominic wasn't thinking about

[00:32:09] already and Dominic didn't find out until later that it wasn't

[00:32:12] the hotel translator that it was Albie's friend.

[00:32:14] But anyway, they got there and I thought I think you have some good points.

[00:32:18] But I also thought, wow, that's an extreme reaction.

[00:32:22] And I I'm a little confused as to what that's going on in this story.

[00:32:26] And maybe I guess you're helping me understand it that it's about entitlement

[00:32:30] and maybe about how men aren't trustworthy or something like that.

[00:32:33] I don't know. I thought it was a clever possibility, right?

[00:32:36] I mean, like when you show up unbidden on someone's doorstep

[00:32:41] in Italy versus in America, you might get blasted to smithereens.

[00:32:45] Right?

[00:32:47] You know, you could get anything ranging from oh, hi.

[00:32:51] Yes, we do know blah, blah, to like get that f out.

[00:32:54] And we and the fact that we think get the f out is very low

[00:32:58] possibility, but not zero.

[00:33:00] I think makes this except I mean, I accept this scene.

[00:33:03] I can see this scene happening.

[00:33:05] I think it was I think it wasn't likely to happen.

[00:33:08] But because it did and it's hilarious

[00:33:10] and it's white lotus. Yes. Yeah.

[00:33:12] Yeah. And it is a pattern with Bert.

[00:33:15] I'm seeing it a little bit more now where he just thinks,

[00:33:18] oh, yeah, everything I do is great and everyone should accept it.

[00:33:20] And he's kind of shocked into the reality that no, it's not always like that.

[00:33:25] But the older what lady says, you just want the pretty money.

[00:33:28] And I tried to figure out what that means.

[00:33:30] And I don't know what that means.

[00:33:31] Maybe they're used to having like maybe they're like,

[00:33:33] you've come from America and you want what we have.

[00:33:35] I don't know.

[00:33:36] I couldn't figure out what that means.

[00:33:38] And I don't know that it's an expression.

[00:33:40] So if someone I couldn't find it on my my short internet search,

[00:33:45] it might be a bad translation to maybe if someone knows what that means.

[00:33:49] Oh, you're just going to try to buy our land and turn into an Airbnb.

[00:33:52] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:33:53] And I think one thing that's interesting is the show is filled with people

[00:33:57] lying to other people or people who aren't honest about their intentions.

[00:34:02] And here we have Bert and Dominic who just have, I think, fine intentions.

[00:34:07] They I mean, I'm Italian.

[00:34:09] My last name is Kibassi.

[00:34:10] Jenny and I went to Italy.

[00:34:11] I wrote to some relatives that I have their distant who I've never

[00:34:14] and they didn't answer back.

[00:34:15] So we didn't go looking for their house to show up on bin.

[00:34:17] But I was kind of bummed that they didn't answer back.

[00:34:20] You know, it's it's natural to want to meet your relatives in another country.

[00:34:24] I think that's a nice thing.

[00:34:25] And it could they could end up having a nice lunch together.

[00:34:27] So anyway, my point is that they're really straightforward

[00:34:29] about wanting something and it's fairly benign.

[00:34:31] But yet they're not trusted.

[00:34:33] So when all these other people are lying and being trusted,

[00:34:35] these are the ones who are kind of straightforward and benign and not trusted.

[00:34:38] And it's also because they say

[00:34:41] they show up and they expect to be embraced by these people.

[00:34:45] And the women are like, get out of here.

[00:34:47] We don't forgive you for leaving.

[00:34:49] Like there's the whole bit like you're here, the one who leaves, you would have left.

[00:34:53] And so here are these men who they're

[00:34:56] I kind of wish that had been a grandfather who left

[00:34:59] not a grandmother, because I would have worked with the gender myth and I have in my head.

[00:35:04] But so they're like, well, you left, we don't need to forgive you for coming back.

[00:35:08] We don't need to embrace you for coming back.

[00:35:09] We're not your wives like this is women standing up to you.

[00:35:13] So I may be making more about it than I don't know.

[00:35:15] Yeah, that sounds like they were coming to apologize for leaving, but I didn't get that.

[00:35:19] No, I don't think they were apologizing.

[00:35:20] They were saying, look, we're back. Look, we're here.

[00:35:23] We've come back.

[00:35:24] We've returned, embrace us, love us.

[00:35:27] And the women are like, no, we don't need you.

[00:35:29] We're fine without you.

[00:35:31] Anyway, one of the one of the things I was also wondering is

[00:35:34] especially because Quinton talking to Tanya so much implies a lot of like mafia things.

[00:35:40] So I had that in my mind and you see this really nice car pull up

[00:35:44] and these three guys get out.

[00:35:46] And I was like, if that happened to me, I would also maybe assume

[00:35:50] like these are not good people.

[00:35:52] Like the fact that there's also three generations of them, it just felt like,

[00:35:57] I don't know, the mafia don showed up and he's got his muscle

[00:36:00] and the young kid who's like new to it or something,

[00:36:03] which might just be a little bit of a prejudice when it comes to like Italy.

[00:36:06] But and they've had the whole Godfather thing.

[00:36:10] So it's sort of like, hey, families, you can't trust it.

[00:36:13] Right. Yeah.

[00:36:14] And I don't know if that because of the actor Dom, he was in

[00:36:18] the Sopranos, right?

[00:36:19] I don't know if that was influencing it a little bit too.

[00:36:22] Or else just like, yeah, you know, you from the.

[00:36:24] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:36:26] And when what's your face?

[00:36:28] Portia is eating breakfast.

[00:36:29] She's wearing a Godfather T-shirt.

[00:36:31] But she must have thought.

[00:36:31] Yeah, that was great.

[00:36:33] OK, so Valentina is to me the only one who gets her dream,

[00:36:38] even though her dream is to go out with Isabella.

[00:36:41] And I once had this happen where I threw myself a party

[00:36:46] and I invited this girl that I knew

[00:36:49] and her name was Virtue and Virtue came to my party

[00:36:54] and was the first person there and was really excited about being at my

[00:36:58] apartment.

[00:36:59] And then I told her that I was really excited because this boy that I knew

[00:37:01] was coming over and I had a crush on him.

[00:37:03] And I was hoping like tonight would be the night

[00:37:05] that I would like to kiss him or whatever.

[00:37:07] And then she immediately got a headache and went home.

[00:37:10] And I was like, oh, no, Virtue was a date.

[00:37:15] So when Valentina had that happen, I was like, oh, no.

[00:37:18] Valentina.

[00:37:21] Wait, I don't get it.

[00:37:23] So Virtue came to my party.

[00:37:26] You told her about the boy.

[00:37:27] Virtue was Valentina.

[00:37:29] Virtue was Valentina.

[00:37:30] So she didn't, she didn't.

[00:37:32] Oh, she. Oh, got it.

[00:37:34] OK.

[00:37:37] You think you were spelling it out?

[00:37:40] OK, well, anyway, Virtue, if you're out there, I'm so sorry.

[00:37:43] And then she never talked to me again.

[00:37:45] She like was my friend anymore.

[00:37:46] I was like, oh no.

[00:37:48] So anyway, I really felt for Valentina there.

[00:37:53] No, I felt that scene was so beautiful.

[00:37:55] That was such a beautifully done scene.

[00:37:57] It was heartbreaking.

[00:37:59] The music was gracious.

[00:38:02] You could tell Valentina was canceling because of her disappointment.

[00:38:06] And Isabella, like this is where, you know, this semi-blend character

[00:38:11] is actually a lot deeper than you expect.

[00:38:13] You can see from her expression.

[00:38:14] She's like, no, I still want to have a drink with you.

[00:38:16] I still want to be your friend.

[00:38:19] You know, at first I was like.

[00:38:20] She's clueless, though.

[00:38:21] Yeah, I thought she was saying yes, because like maybe

[00:38:24] because she was a boss, but you know, to be turned down

[00:38:27] and they still want to do it, you can tell.

[00:38:29] She admires her.

[00:38:30] Yeah, yeah.

[00:38:31] It's also the first time I think we see Isabella not smile.

[00:38:35] Like she's got that smile plastered the whole show.

[00:38:37] She lost her smile when when Rocco was moved away.

[00:38:40] And oh, look at that guy's name came back.

[00:38:43] Yeah. Salvatore.

[00:38:45] Yeah, yeah, Salvatore.

[00:38:47] Yeah, hers is just smile is gone.

[00:38:50] But yeah, and in this scene, rare.

[00:38:52] I'm glad that Valentina didn't flip out on Isabelle.

[00:38:55] I think lesser writing would have had her just get pissed, you know?

[00:39:00] But she's just trying to keep her composure and be kind still.

[00:39:03] And that felt kind of real like she's she knows Isabelle is a good person.

[00:39:09] And you know, she's just like, OK, well, let me get out of this.

[00:39:14] Yeah, my pain was that I can't remember if it was after that conversation

[00:39:18] that Valentina turns to whoever's beside her and says,

[00:39:21] what are you doing here? Get out of here.

[00:39:22] Yeah, so she right then do a man who's standing beside her.

[00:39:26] So she takes out her rage on the.

[00:39:27] But anyway, later she gets to have her dream with Mia.

[00:39:30] So that was I think she's the only one because everyone else's dreams.

[00:39:33] I mean, I can keep doing this or we can move on to someone else.

[00:39:36] Albie know, I like this.

[00:39:38] Albie's dream is to be a hero and to stand up to his dad

[00:39:42] and defend this woman and save this broken bird.

[00:39:46] And Lucia gives it to him.

[00:39:49] So she's letting him fulfill this fantasy.

[00:39:52] He gets to turn like he gets to be like to his dad.

[00:39:55] What's the problem with her being are like, what's your problem with her?

[00:39:58] You know, he has to defend her and her life choices.

[00:40:01] And and she

[00:40:04] Oh, and also the sex in the beginning of this one, he's on top.

[00:40:07] Like the other ones, she's been the one sort of leading the charge.

[00:40:11] And here he's the one who's like, you know, so he gets in control.

[00:40:16] There you go.

[00:40:17] So he gets to be this thing for Lucia.

[00:40:21] And in turn, Lucia gets to live her dream, I think, which is like when she says to him.

[00:40:30] You're a nice guy.

[00:40:32] I wish all men were like you.

[00:40:34] She says it in Italian knowing that he doesn't understand it.

[00:40:37] I'm like, oh, she actually that's not a manipulation.

[00:40:40] That's true.

[00:40:41] She is.

[00:40:42] She's also getting to live a dream where she doesn't have to be hustling all the time.

[00:40:46] Right.

[00:40:48] The other thing.

[00:40:49] OK, so that's Albie.

[00:40:50] So Albie is living his dream and then Ethan, he's living a nightmare.

[00:40:58] He has created this story in his head that he can't escape.

[00:41:07] And so

[00:41:10] he's so he like he's always had this fear about Cam, the Cam steals his women.

[00:41:16] And so he's like almost made it happen.

[00:41:18] Yeah, yeah.

[00:41:19] He's this is wish fulfillment.

[00:41:21] I mean, he he claims he doesn't want it, but he's definitely making it happen.

[00:41:25] Self-fulfilling prophecy.

[00:41:27] And he even wants Harper to be happy.

[00:41:29] And then she's finally happy.

[00:41:30] He's like, why are you happy?

[00:41:32] And then such a good move.

[00:41:34] Because I just got laid.

[00:41:35] And Cameron says, Cameron, I want you to tell her what really happened.

[00:41:40] And then Harper's like, well, Cameron told me what really happened

[00:41:42] and that makes Ethan angrier.

[00:41:44] So it's like, even when he gets the things he wants, he doesn't want them.

[00:41:49] Anyway, so he it's too late.

[00:41:52] Anyway, it's so to me that was really fantastic to watch that happen.

[00:41:57] And then, yeah, I think those are all the people whose dreams

[00:42:02] I could think of that were but like all of them.

[00:42:06] Even Jack thinks he's he's living in a dream,

[00:42:09] but it's really actually he's living in a nightmare.

[00:42:12] I think we discussed that already.

[00:42:14] Mia is living her dream.

[00:42:15] She's singing again.

[00:42:16] Mia and Valentina.

[00:42:19] I enjoyed that interaction with her and Bert, where he Bert says,

[00:42:23] yeah, really very good.

[00:42:24] And she goes, oh, well, I have one fan and he kind of laughs.

[00:42:27] That was nice because it's another case where I think Bert is pretty

[00:42:31] sleazy a lot of the time, but this was just a nice interaction.

[00:42:33] He didn't take advantage of it and try to push it further or anything.

[00:42:36] It was just cool.

[00:42:37] You know, and we've seen that he's critical of music throughout the whole series.

[00:42:42] So the fact that he is giving a compliment feels like a genuine thing.

[00:42:46] He's like, I actually enjoy this.

[00:42:48] Cranted it might help that she's a pretty young woman.

[00:42:52] Yeah, we don't know for sure.

[00:42:54] Yeah, because we've only seen him react to Giuseppe.

[00:42:56] But that was kind of bad.

[00:42:57] Yeah, he is good.

[00:43:01] All right, Jenny, I feel like you kind of just had a little point.

[00:43:05] So do you have another one?

[00:43:07] Sure.

[00:43:08] So I mean, it's not really a point.

[00:43:10] It's just like a celebration of Tonya's party.

[00:43:15] I'm sorry, I had so much fun.

[00:43:17] I mean, I was just watching that and like putting myself there.

[00:43:21] And I'm just drinking the champagne and I'm dancing to that music

[00:43:25] and looking at all the pretty people.

[00:43:27] It just and you know, when Quintin said it's like riding a bike again.

[00:43:30] I mean, he's implying you used to party girl as party again.

[00:43:35] And she does, you know, at first at first, I'm not sure as an audience

[00:43:38] member whether I should feel uncomfortable.

[00:43:40] She does that first line of coke because, you know, this is like total

[00:43:45] peer pressure.

[00:43:46] She's, you know, trap whatever.

[00:43:48] But, you know, but you can tell by the like the sixth scene

[00:43:52] that she is definitely quite adept at this.

[00:43:55] In fact, probably outsmorting the others.

[00:43:59] Yeah, it's just quite a lot.

[00:44:02] Was this like because you've said a few times that

[00:44:05] you like Tanya in this season better.

[00:44:07] Is this part of it?

[00:44:10] Yeah, I mean, living it up.

[00:44:12] Yeah, I mean, it's just fun.

[00:44:13] You kind of identify slash live through her.

[00:44:17] I mean, come on, this is including with the study.

[00:44:27] I mean, I have to admit that from a from an anthropological

[00:44:31] point of view is quite fascinating.

[00:44:33] I mean, if this has never happened to you before, how could

[00:44:36] you not be like, oh, this is quite interesting.

[00:44:38] Let us see what happens.

[00:44:40] I mean, I've never had some guys just take off other clothes.

[00:44:44] Oil themselves up.

[00:44:46] And then they say like, oh, hello, I'm here to, you know, do my job.

[00:44:51] Have a good time.

[00:44:52] It made me wonder, like, what was he doing in the room?

[00:44:57] Because every time I've ever been with somebody, taking off clothes

[00:45:03] is like part of it.

[00:45:05] Like no one's ever like disrobed and then presented themselves to me.

[00:45:09] And so that was and I was like, what's he doing in that room?

[00:45:12] Like that made me very suspicious is like, what's happening?

[00:45:16] He has a weapon.

[00:45:18] There's a lot of mystery around him.

[00:45:20] Yeah, like with the deal.

[00:45:22] I wondered if Jennifer Coolidge was like, yeah, Mike, I'll do it.

[00:45:26] I'll do season two if you get me a hot Italian stud.

[00:45:32] I mean, when that first happened, when he was like, I must get ready

[00:45:35] and he like goes into another room and closes his door.

[00:45:37] I do remember being like, what?

[00:45:38] What do you guys need to get ready?

[00:45:43] But, you know, when he shows up, I can forgive him that.

[00:45:47] But, you know, it just made me think, yeah, isn't that sexist?

[00:45:50] We just sit here and assume that guys don't need to get ready.

[00:45:53] They don't need to like freshen up and, you know, put that oil right on the nipples.

[00:45:59] I mean, you know, Sean is just right on the pack.

[00:46:03] When I, the girlfriend before I met you, whose name is also Jenny,

[00:46:09] just by coincidence, I remember we were going to go somewhere

[00:46:13] and I said, I have to get ready and she's just kind of mocked me like,

[00:46:17] you have to get ready.

[00:46:17] You're a guy and I'm like, I need to take a shower.

[00:46:19] Jesus Christ.

[00:46:20] It's like, it takes a few minutes.

[00:46:22] They've been partying and waxing my beard or anything.

[00:46:24] Oh, yeah, right.

[00:46:25] I don't know.

[00:46:26] It was just like, Greg, you know,

[00:46:27] you had to take a shower because of the crotch.

[00:46:28] I mean, obviously this guy's been partying on.

[00:46:31] Yeah, sweaty.

[00:46:33] Oh, yeah.

[00:46:34] All that stuff he needs to.

[00:46:35] Yeah.

[00:46:35] Oh, did he say?

[00:46:36] What a thoughtful guy.

[00:46:38] But I don't think he said I have to get ready.

[00:46:40] I think he said I'll be back in a minute.

[00:46:42] Yeah. Yep.

[00:46:43] And so he didn't say like I'm going to.

[00:46:45] So when he opened the door and was naked, I was like,

[00:46:47] but how did you know?

[00:46:48] So what do you think he was doing?

[00:46:50] I don't know.

[00:46:51] It was just I if someone said to me, I'll be back in a minute.

[00:46:54] And I'm like, oh, he's using the bathroom or he's calling his wife.

[00:46:59] Or he's just like, oh, I really got to go take a dump.

[00:47:02] Yeah. So weird.

[00:47:05] I think I have a theory, but I can't decide if it's spoiler.

[00:47:08] I'm basing it not off of anything additional, I know.

[00:47:12] Or so.

[00:47:13] What's here?

[00:47:14] Well, the world's edge.

[00:47:14] Yeah. My theory is based on all of the people Quinton hangs out with.

[00:47:19] He may be gay and he might have had to go in there to take a pill.

[00:47:23] So that you could actually perform for Tonya.

[00:47:27] That's a good one.

[00:47:28] That's a possibility.

[00:47:29] I'm basing that just off of the context of what's happened prior.

[00:47:34] Take a pill and look at some quick.

[00:47:36] Yeah.

[00:47:38] Or maybe he also had to hop into the other room

[00:47:40] and have sex with Quinton just like Jack did,

[00:47:43] where he was like, I'll be back in a minute.

[00:47:46] Quinton really knows how to find these people.

[00:47:48] I mean, first he finds Jack,

[00:47:49] who can apparently perform twice in a night, you know, once with Quinton.

[00:47:53] And then to be in bed with Portia.

[00:47:56] And now, of course, the hottest heterosexual male in Palermo.

[00:48:00] He's clearly a mobster.

[00:48:03] Do you think that Tonya knows?

[00:48:08] Is this playing into her fantasy where

[00:48:11] everybody is there for her and likes her?

[00:48:14] Or does she know that this is like a pre-range?

[00:48:17] Like, is this is this another sex worker situation?

[00:48:19] Because like obviously he was primed and they Quinton's like,

[00:48:22] I found you a man, I would assume that he's being paid to be there with me.

[00:48:26] But is Tonya still in her fantasy where she's a little doll

[00:48:30] in a dress and people play with her and they want to?

[00:48:32] I think so because she says I'm not going to be as type as if that matters.

[00:48:37] Right.

[00:48:37] OK. Yeah.

[00:48:39] It does feel like all throughout the party,

[00:48:41] she is like getting hints of like this feels off,

[00:48:44] but then she'll do a line of cocaine or something immediately after.

[00:48:48] And it seems like she's trying to ignore all those signs

[00:48:52] and those signals. And yeah, she's like, this is what I want.

[00:48:55] So I'm going to ignore everything else and make sure this happens.

[00:48:59] I mean, it's very similar to Portia and they have similar music.

[00:49:02] They have the Madonna butterfly music in the background in both of their scenes.

[00:49:06] Which I thought was interesting.

[00:49:08] They're trying to tie the two together.

[00:49:09] So I mean, here's Tonya.

[00:49:10] She's just been swept away by this gang of high end gays that want a party

[00:49:14] and throwing a party in her honor, which is not as weird as you think

[00:49:18] because you're thinking, oh, my God, I just found these party boys

[00:49:21] and they find any reason to have a party, including me.

[00:49:26] And I'm going to have fun.

[00:49:27] And and you know, there's all these little clues that it's not quite so

[00:49:31] fun loving right?

[00:49:32] She walks into the she wanders into Quentin's bedroom

[00:49:36] and there's a picture of a very familiar young man.

[00:49:39] So you know, things are starting to be a little different.

[00:49:43] And the cowboy hat. Right.

[00:49:45] What the fuck?

[00:49:46] Yeah, she's just like, oh, but but party, right?

[00:49:50] How can you ignore that, though?

[00:49:51] It maybe she doesn't really know what he looks like when he's younger.

[00:49:55] I mean, I feel comfortable saying I mean,

[00:49:59] it look when I saw that, I'm like, that's Greg.

[00:50:01] Oh, yeah, when I first watched it.

[00:50:03] I didn't get it at all.

[00:50:06] At all, I was just like, who are these people?

[00:50:07] And it's interesting because I didn't that they didn't have her say, Greg.

[00:50:12] Yeah, yeah, maybe she doesn't.

[00:50:14] So we so like for me, I didn't get it at all.

[00:50:17] So I was really, yeah.

[00:50:20] Well, I'm also curious, like how many second, third, fourth

[00:50:23] later marriages do you go over the baby pictures?

[00:50:25] Right. Like, yes, I have seen pictures of Jason

[00:50:28] when he was a three year old and a 12 year old and a 16.

[00:50:33] So I, you know, if I saw a later picture of him,

[00:50:36] you know, sitting in an ex-girlfriend's bedroom per chance,

[00:50:40] I might recognize him, but I'm just wondering if this is your fourth

[00:50:43] marriage as it is for Greg or if he's pulling out there like, hey,

[00:50:46] this is me when I was 25 and I was a cowboy in Wyoming.

[00:50:49] Wish come to think of it.

[00:50:50] Yes, you would say that, huh?

[00:50:52] Yeah, I mean, I'm just saying I'm not his wife and I.

[00:50:56] When I first saw this, I thought, that's great.

[00:50:59] OK, there's something like this is not what it seems.

[00:51:02] But I could also see. Yeah.

[00:51:04] But this is Tanya.

[00:51:05] That's what I thought when I first saw it and didn't know anything else.

[00:51:09] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:51:10] No, I saw it too.

[00:51:11] But you know, at the same time, we're like, this is Tanya.

[00:51:14] You know, yeah.

[00:51:16] She's kind of slow on the emotion on the reaction here.

[00:51:20] She is also drunk and high as well.

[00:51:22] So there's a chance she doesn't.

[00:51:25] And I could also see if I were in Italy

[00:51:28] somewhere hanging out with a whole group of strangers.

[00:51:30] And I saw a photo that sort of looked like my wife.

[00:51:33] My first thought wouldn't be like, oh, yeah, obviously,

[00:51:35] she's been with these people.

[00:51:38] I think I would be like, wow, this person looks exactly like her

[00:51:41] as opposed to younger. Yeah.

[00:51:45] But also, I didn't recognize that

[00:51:48] the actor who plays Greg also played Uncle Rico in Napoleon Dynamite

[00:51:53] until I like looked into it.

[00:51:55] So we he looks very different.

[00:51:57] Uncle Rico. No, that's not the same one.

[00:52:01] Are you sure? Yeah.

[00:52:03] Oh, I thought I looked like Riko's younger

[00:52:06] in Napoleon Dynamite.

[00:52:08] I think it's the same.

[00:52:10] That movie is very old.

[00:52:12] It's old, but I don't think it's the same guy.

[00:52:14] But he's definitely the guy that was in real genius

[00:52:18] who walked into the closet.

[00:52:19] No, yeah, it's John Grease.

[00:52:22] He's Uncle Rico.

[00:52:23] Yeah, OK, maybe I'm thinking of a different.

[00:52:25] So when he's younger, he's not as recognizable.

[00:52:29] So like we don't even recognize him.

[00:52:32] I did recognize from real genius though.

[00:52:34] Yeah, so weird. Anyway, OK.

[00:52:36] Yeah. Well, similar to that.

[00:52:38] Similar as Tanya is being swept away, but seeing hits of trouble.

[00:52:43] Portia is being swept away by Jack, right?

[00:52:45] Having this this date that eventually goes too long.

[00:52:50] So I just like how the music was the same between them,

[00:52:53] especially since Tanya was in the beginning has that moment of grace

[00:52:56] at the breakfast table when she talks to Portia says, I see you in me.

[00:53:02] And they start going about like if you're empty inside,

[00:53:06] you'll always be lost.

[00:53:07] And and, you know, I've I've, you know, I thought that was also one of the few

[00:53:12] that the words of wisdom that, you know, Mike White has sprinkled

[00:53:15] about to kind of ground the show because, you know, I've seen so many people

[00:53:20] who don't really know what they want to do or they are empty inside.

[00:53:24] And, you know, it's not their choice.

[00:53:26] It's kind of like that's how it is for them.

[00:53:28] And if they're lucky, they get to fill it up.

[00:53:31] If they're not, they just get swept along like here.

[00:53:34] So my thing, most people are like that.

[00:53:37] But I I felt like, oh, this is Tanya actually caring and and helping.

[00:53:44] And then at the end, she goes, get it together.

[00:53:46] And that made me feel like, ah, she's just saying this so that Portia

[00:53:49] will be a good assistant or something.

[00:53:52] Felt like a little bit like that.

[00:53:53] I was wondering that too, because I was like, wow,

[00:53:55] it really seems like she's caring for her.

[00:53:57] But she says, I see myself in you.

[00:53:59] So I feel like to a degree, she's still talking about herself

[00:54:03] and being like, I feel like she's saying it to Portia.

[00:54:06] But really, she might be thinking, oh, I wish I could say this to younger me

[00:54:10] so that I don't have these issues.

[00:54:14] OK, Randy, you haven't gone in a while.

[00:54:16] Oh, I just want to piggyback slightly on that one a little is I am

[00:54:21] very surprised at how aware and perceptive Tanya's character

[00:54:24] does seem to be in this episode.

[00:54:27] She seems almost like she's a little bit of a detective

[00:54:30] going into this whole party sequence.

[00:54:33] I kind of assumed it would be Portia, who would be the one

[00:54:36] picking up notes and stuff like that.

[00:54:38] But she's not only being aware and perceptive, but she's being coy

[00:54:42] a little bit too.

[00:54:43] So when she's talking to Quinton and he asks how she slept

[00:54:47] and she said she had trouble sleeping because she heard a lot of noise

[00:54:50] the night before.

[00:54:51] She doesn't just outright say like, I know you were having sex,

[00:54:55] which seems very she's so forward as a character.

[00:54:59] The fact that she starts being a little more guarded and what she's

[00:55:02] saying is kind of interesting.

[00:55:04] Oh, but still puts it out there.

[00:55:06] Yeah, yeah.

[00:55:07] But she's still a good guest.

[00:55:08] I mean, a good guest.

[00:55:09] I don't I don't think a guest goes up to the house and say,

[00:55:12] I heard you guys.

[00:55:13] I had sex and then I looked at you.

[00:55:17] Are you sure he's your nephew?

[00:55:21] If I even hear any noise, I immediately the next morning

[00:55:24] at breakfast and like, I heard you having sex last night.

[00:55:27] She doesn't.

[00:55:29] She I think she also doesn't tell Portia.

[00:55:31] She's just like that guy isn't his uncle, but she doesn't say why

[00:55:34] she knows this.

[00:55:35] And what I think is she also isn't ready to give up.

[00:55:40] Yep.

[00:55:41] Being the guest of honor, being celebrated and loved.

[00:55:45] And yeah.

[00:55:46] So that would change the plot quite a bit.

[00:55:51] She was just like, let's leave.

[00:55:54] Let's get out of here.

[00:55:55] Season over.

[00:55:58] So another small point that I wanted to talk about is Bert, actually.

[00:56:02] And I feel like we talked about him a lot during the beginning of the season

[00:56:06] and he's felt less prominent since that point.

[00:56:09] He's in conversations, but he doesn't feel like a focus at all.

[00:56:13] And I do think in this episode, he does actually become a little bit

[00:56:16] more of the focus of the episode, partly because what we discussed

[00:56:21] how he was super excited to see his relatives and then that completely

[00:56:26] gets crushed.

[00:56:27] But I think one of the charms that's coming out of him, I don't know

[00:56:31] if you would find this charming if you were interacting with him, is that

[00:56:34] I do feel like he has this jokey interaction with Dominic

[00:56:39] where he's calling him out for his bullshit all of the time, but he does

[00:56:43] it in such a way that he has that air of maybe I'm just an old man

[00:56:50] who doesn't quite know what I'm talking about.

[00:56:53] But he when Dominic is worried about the Lucia being their

[00:56:59] their interpreter for the day, he's very uncomfortable with it.

[00:57:03] And Dom is just or Bert is like, you're overreacting and you're giving yourself

[00:57:07] away and he's like, what are you talking about?

[00:57:09] He's like, you're making it obvious that they're sex workers.

[00:57:11] Like I don't know what you're talking about.

[00:57:13] He's like, can't you just be cool?

[00:57:17] Such like, I don't know, like a fun way to like poke at him a little bit.

[00:57:22] And then as they're driving in the car, Bert keeps asking Lucia about her

[00:57:26] like what she does for work and things like that.

[00:57:29] Like he knows the answer.

[00:57:30] Dom knows the answer.

[00:57:31] Albi knows the answer.

[00:57:32] But the only one it's making uncomfortable is Dom.

[00:57:35] Like Lucia is perfectly fine answering the questions.

[00:57:38] But the whole car ride Dom is just like, please stop.

[00:57:41] Yeah, he's pokes at Dom all the time.

[00:57:43] Yeah.

[00:57:44] And it's like, yeah, I could it's it's

[00:57:47] you know, probably not the best life to live through.

[00:57:49] But as a television show, it's super entertaining

[00:57:53] because Dom is very like serious and but I feel like Bert managed

[00:57:57] to get under his skin in just the right way.

[00:58:00] I think.

[00:58:00] But it's the attitude of why can't you just be like me?

[00:58:04] I had affairs, but I was cool about it.

[00:58:07] Yeah, you know, which is not cool.

[00:58:09] No. And also Dom points out like, yeah, you weren't as cool

[00:58:12] about it as you think you were like we all knew.

[00:58:15] Yeah. Right.

[00:58:16] So his way doesn't necessarily work.

[00:58:20] But he wants to defend himself.

[00:58:21] Yeah, the idea that it does work even though it doesn't.

[00:58:24] I think at that point in your life, like you kind of have to defend yourself.

[00:58:28] Otherwise, you are just like, what was my life if it wasn't correct?

[00:58:33] So it seems like a tough spot for him to be in to admit like, yeah,

[00:58:38] all I don't know, 80 years of my life was terrible.

[00:58:41] Yeah.

[00:58:43] I felt, I mean, in addition, that there was a sense of like paternal

[00:58:49] paternal love in those scenes.

[00:58:51] You know, I wouldn't even say love, but like teaching.

[00:58:55] He's kind of like, dude, don't flip out over this or you'll expose yourself

[00:59:00] as someone who hired the sex worker and son already thinks you're a scum of the earth.

[00:59:06] And when he finds out you actually slept with this sex worker that he really,

[00:59:09] really likes beforehand, he's going to be even more pissed.

[00:59:13] So chill out.

[00:59:15] You know, I'm talking to you from a dad to another dad.

[00:59:18] But also as someone who has experience cheating.

[00:59:21] So it's both.

[00:59:22] Yeah.

[00:59:23] He's trying to teach him to be like he was.

[00:59:24] Yeah.

[00:59:25] But it gives birth.

[00:59:25] It's coming from a place of love though.

[00:59:27] It gives birth a bit more depth in terms of how he is as a person.

[00:59:32] Yeah, for sure.

[00:59:33] And then just one other note about kind of the DeGrasso guys is

[00:59:37] I thought it was impressive that when they're driving with Lucia

[00:59:41] and she gets out of the car to go talk to her, their friend guy.

[00:59:46] Let's see what.

[00:59:47] Yeah.

[00:59:49] That all three of the men eventually get out of the car

[00:59:52] when it seems like something violent is happening.

[00:59:55] Burt or not Burt Damm and Albee are out of the car immediately

[01:00:00] to defend her.

[01:00:00] And then when they fail, Burt gets out of the car and is like,

[01:00:04] no, we can't let her go with them.

[01:00:06] So I did think it was.

[01:00:09] Interesting that they all had that characteristic

[01:00:13] and it wasn't just like Albee wanted to defend her and like you could

[01:00:16] picture this being where Dom's like, oh, thank goodness, she's out of the picture.

[01:00:20] I don't have to worry about it.

[01:00:22] He's still like, no, that's a person.

[01:00:24] I do want to help her.

[01:00:25] So I thought that was a maybe a redeeming ish characteristic for all of them.

[01:00:31] But also interesting that they all had that.

[01:00:34] I was thinking to myself if this was like a film,

[01:00:37] like the car chase and getting out and defending the girl.

[01:00:40] If this was like a movie that Dom produced in my mind, he's a film producer.

[01:00:44] I don't know who is, but I'm like, oh, this is like one of the movies he

[01:00:47] is living.

[01:00:48] This movie. But I did think it was nice.

[01:00:51] But it was interesting how Burt doesn't get out until the end.

[01:00:54] Like he sits in the car, he's like, meh.

[01:00:55] And then at the end, he's like, he the other two feel.

[01:00:59] I mean, I think it was sincere, but the other two feel a bit like heroes.

[01:01:02] And Burt comes out and he actually seems like desperate, like, please,

[01:01:05] look, what are you doing?

[01:01:06] This is. Yeah.

[01:01:07] And for him, I felt the whole sort of everything he thinks he knows about

[01:01:12] how the world works started to fall apart right there.

[01:01:15] Yeah. And then they eventually end up in the town

[01:01:19] and it continues to crumble for him even more.

[01:01:22] But before like there, they get out to try to talk her out of it

[01:01:27] or just bring her back with them.

[01:01:30] But I think, I guess to their credit,

[01:01:33] I mean, there was a part of me that's like, oh, you let her go, though.

[01:01:35] What if she's dead?

[01:01:36] But then there's another part that said, no, she said very clearly,

[01:01:39] I am OK, I want to go and they respected that.

[01:01:41] So I guess that was the right thing to do.

[01:01:44] But yeah, you know, yeah.

[01:01:47] Also, you know, I think it can be hard for someone who's in their 80s

[01:01:51] to get out of the car.

[01:01:52] So they're just their way to the very end.

[01:01:54] They'll handle it and then they didn't handle it.

[01:01:57] So he's like, well, what? Wait.

[01:01:58] Well, it seemed like they were getting out with the intention

[01:02:02] of potentially being physically defensive for her.

[01:02:05] And then once that didn't work, Bert got out and tried to like reason

[01:02:08] with her emotionally, which I think is the only thing he could do.

[01:02:12] So yeah, when they first got out, I was wondering

[01:02:15] if Bert was out of the car and was thinking like, what is this?

[01:02:18] He falls down all the time.

[01:02:19] He's not going to be much in a fight.

[01:02:22] That was a great scene, by the way.

[01:02:23] Yeah. I remember watching it going, holy fuck.

[01:02:26] You know, it's tense.

[01:02:28] Yeah. Yeah.

[01:02:31] OK, Jenny Ryan.

[01:02:33] Um, I had a couple more like points, I guess.

[01:02:36] One is it's it's been interesting watching Harper also crumble.

[01:02:41] Like, I don't think she fits into my thesis of dreams, but

[01:02:46] she is starting to fall apart or maybe come into herself because

[01:02:52] she what I think is telling is that she refers to the sex workers as hookers.

[01:03:00] And I feel like somebody who is like a like a employment lawyer

[01:03:06] who fights for the little guy doesn't use that word.

[01:03:10] So suddenly she's talking about these women as hookers,

[01:03:13] which I feel like she wouldn't have done at the beginning of the week.

[01:03:15] The other thing is she has a conversation with Daphne

[01:03:18] when they're going into the restaurant

[01:03:19] and she's talking about getting a trainer.

[01:03:22] Because Daphne is like, oh, you want to get one with classes?

[01:03:25] Like they're talking about this next step in Harper's life.

[01:03:28] And I was like, Harper.

[01:03:30] And then the other thing is when she decides to go.

[01:03:33] Yeah, when she decides to go get drinks with Cam.

[01:03:37] She and Cam, I had to watch it a couple times,

[01:03:39] but she and Cam have a little eye, almost like a little eye fuck

[01:03:44] where they kind of like look at each other.

[01:03:45] And then Harper, he kind of like looks at her and then turns away

[01:03:49] and then Harper like drums her hands and she's like, all right,

[01:03:52] I'm going to go.

[01:03:53] So it's almost like in that moment.

[01:03:55] If we're going to want to really happen to him.

[01:03:58] Yeah, she's like, I'm going to do it.

[01:04:01] And she is sort of she.

[01:04:04] And then when she eats the toast, like so angry

[01:04:07] and she's like, I'm in myself now because Daphne is like,

[01:04:11] I'm going to throw up and and Harper just eats that toast

[01:04:14] really aggressively like I'm I'm fine.

[01:04:17] I destroyed all of our worlds yesterday and now I'm I'm on top of everything.

[01:04:22] Anyway, I just think watching her is interesting.

[01:04:25] And the other thing that I wait, wait, wait, before you go on to what

[01:04:28] it brought up for me is she started off just being really wanting

[01:04:33] things to be better with her and her husband and feeling insecure about

[01:04:38] things because she feels like rightly so that her husband isn't attracted to

[01:04:41] anymore and she's all caught up in that.

[01:04:43] And so now because he's betrayed her and she's feeling this something with Cameron

[01:04:49] and she even said it somewhere in this episode, fine, I don't even care anymore.

[01:04:53] I think that's like there's a sense of freedom there

[01:04:56] because she's like, I'm not worrying about this anymore.

[01:04:58] Like I'm getting my jolly somewhere else, you know, or my self-esteem or whatever.

[01:05:04] Yeah.

[01:05:05] And the other thing I was going to say is I thought it was

[01:05:07] I think it's interesting how we kind of touched on this before, whereas.

[01:05:12] Ham and Daphne tell each other the truth and lie in the same tone.

[01:05:19] Yeah.

[01:05:19] So you don't know what's the truth and what's a lie, whereas what's happening

[01:05:23] with Harper and Ethan is he's like, but we always tell the truth.

[01:05:26] We always tell the truth.

[01:05:27] And so like for instance, they're joking around about he admits he

[01:05:34] part like in the morning, they wake up in the morning and he's like,

[01:05:37] do you want a coffee?

[01:05:38] And he admits and then she's like, Harper's pretty convinced you did something

[01:05:41] bad when I was in one of your Anoto.

[01:05:43] And then he's like, well, yeah, we partied.

[01:05:45] And then she talks about how she cheated with big Italian dick or whatever.

[01:05:50] And like, well, who's telling the truth?

[01:05:51] Because they're both telling the same story.

[01:05:54] But one of them is like, are they both telling the truth?

[01:05:56] Are they both lying?

[01:05:57] And then later on, she gets her massage from the hot muscular

[01:06:02] Timothy Chalamet, which sounds like a very disturbing person.

[01:06:05] Yeah.

[01:06:07] Shouting.

[01:06:08] A muscular man with a child's head on top.

[01:06:10] Yeah.

[01:06:12] Anyway, so then.

[01:06:13] Yeah.

[01:06:14] Emotype.

[01:06:14] Yeah.

[01:06:15] So then she and he's like, oh, did he?

[01:06:19] She's like, like, yeah, did you touch my boobs?

[01:06:21] Oh, yeah, I asked him to.

[01:06:23] And then he's like, I'm going to punish you.

[01:06:24] So like, but it may have happened.

[01:06:26] May didn't happen.

[01:06:27] Like we don't know.

[01:06:27] And it doesn't matter.

[01:06:28] Game playing all the time.

[01:06:29] Yeah.

[01:06:30] Just playing games all the time.

[01:06:31] It was really wild.

[01:06:32] It seems like they get a sexual energy from that too.

[01:06:36] Because immediately after each of those scenes, they both start

[01:06:39] making out and it's like they're at the beach lounging or the pool

[01:06:43] and it's like not an appropriate place.

[01:06:44] And they're just like, nope, we're like, we're on top of each other

[01:06:48] and this is going to happen right now.

[01:06:50] So it seems like, yeah, it's somehow the two of them seem

[01:06:54] like they would benefit from an open relationship where they

[01:06:58] can go off and do what they want.

[01:06:59] And it seems like they actually thrive off of that energy

[01:07:03] and they do actually seem to bring it back to their relationship.

[01:07:06] The only problem is with an open relationship, they would have

[01:07:09] to have excellent communication skills.

[01:07:11] It does not seem like either of them have that with each other.

[01:07:14] Yeah.

[01:07:15] And I don't know, maybe if they had an open relationship, great

[01:07:18] communication skills.

[01:07:19] And one of them could tell the other about this in detail, the sex

[01:07:22] they had it would get the other one hot.

[01:07:23] But I kind of suspect no, that they needed to be just the

[01:07:26] fucked up way that it is right now where neither one of them

[01:07:28] is sure and they're untrusting and they're making the other one

[01:07:33] feel jealous on purpose and all that kind of bullshit.

[01:07:36] Yeah.

[01:07:36] I found in this episode, all the discussion we had earlier

[01:07:39] about how healthy their relationship is, their communication,

[01:07:42] whatever, all this dishonesty.

[01:07:44] So then it was kind of like, you know what?

[01:07:46] They seem to be totally fine with the don't ask, don't tell,

[01:07:49] don't whatever kind of up in the air mystery of this whole thing.

[01:07:54] Like to the point that I was starting to think like, have we

[01:07:56] been overthinking this?

[01:07:57] Are there like a bunch of polyamorous washing the saying?

[01:08:01] Duh, right?

[01:08:03] But everything I've heard about polyamory, it's all about

[01:08:06] communication and openness.

[01:08:07] So this doesn't seem like it quite fits.

[01:08:09] But you know, I guess, you know, that the subtext of the show

[01:08:13] has always been how F.

[01:08:14] How can the rich be?

[01:08:17] Let's see.

[01:08:17] Yeah.

[01:08:18] I mean, you're asking if we're overthinking it and maybe

[01:08:20] they're just OK with it.

[01:08:21] But I I 100% believe that Daphne's kid is from her

[01:08:26] trainer.

[01:08:27] So I don't know if you can say, yeah, that's just part of how

[01:08:29] they work and it's fine.

[01:08:30] You know?

[01:08:31] Yeah.

[01:08:33] Well, and I almost imagine like he would look at pictures

[01:08:36] of the kid and be like, this looks like your trainer.

[01:08:38] And she'd be like, it is.

[01:08:39] Ha ha ha ha ha.

[01:08:40] And I'm like, yeah.

[01:08:41] But you think.

[01:08:42] Right.

[01:08:43] And then she looks over at her friend and goes, it is.

[01:08:47] But then they would start making out, right?

[01:08:49] Yeah.

[01:08:49] You're right.

[01:08:49] Yeah.

[01:08:50] Or he has a second family in Toronto.

[01:08:54] Yeah.

[01:08:56] Yeah.

[01:08:56] It did seem to me when Daphne was asking the question in the

[01:09:02] bed in the morning, this was one of the few times I did

[01:09:05] feel like she might have actually wanted to know for a

[01:09:08] moment and then they went back to the default.

[01:09:11] But it did seem like having Harper kind of back up

[01:09:16] some of the claims made her second guess it a little

[01:09:19] or not or second guess her lifestyle for a moment.

[01:09:23] And then she went back to.

[01:09:25] And then he got all like, yeah.

[01:09:27] Yeah.

[01:09:27] Okay.

[01:09:27] Yeah.

[01:09:28] A telling scene is at the beach, right?

[01:09:31] When they just start, they joke, as you said, they

[01:09:34] joke about like the Timothy Chalamet look alike, you know,

[01:09:37] sex thing and then they just start making out there.

[01:09:40] And it's interesting because like Cameron knows that

[01:09:43] Ethan and Harper know he fucks around and Daphne

[01:09:47] knows, right?

[01:09:49] That maybe not Ethan, but Harper knows that she

[01:09:52] fucks around, right?

[01:09:53] And so they're just basically saying, you know what?

[01:09:56] We're just going to let our freak flag fly.

[01:09:58] We're just going to make out here a joke about like,

[01:10:01] you know, fucking other people while making out

[01:10:03] in front of you guys.

[01:10:04] And I just thought that was kind of cool because

[01:10:06] that's, you know, they've relaxed around them.

[01:10:09] Oh, look at that.

[01:10:10] But it's all indirect and playful and ambiguous as

[01:10:14] is everything.

[01:10:14] Right.

[01:10:15] And it highlights Ethan and Harper just how not

[01:10:18] relaxed their relationship is and nonsexual and

[01:10:21] all of that stuff.

[01:10:23] It's the opposite.

[01:10:23] Yeah, but neither seem to be good.

[01:10:27] Yeah, which is healthier.

[01:10:29] I mean, it's kind of like looking at two terminally ill

[01:10:31] people and trying to figure out which is healthier.

[01:10:34] I mean, I enjoy this season and the show, but I don't.

[01:10:37] I couldn't take too much more of these two couples.

[01:10:42] I don't think so.

[01:10:45] I'm kind of lost track.

[01:10:47] Where are we?

[01:10:48] Whose turn is it?

[01:10:49] I only have one little point, which is I feel

[01:10:52] like Ethan, poor, poor Will Sharp.

[01:10:56] He has to play this character.

[01:10:57] His character is definitely written up to be quite the sack,

[01:11:01] you know, that sack in this episode.

[01:11:03] And he's just fantasizing all the bad stuff.

[01:11:05] And and he's like a miscommunication trope.

[01:11:08] Like you see those romantic comedies in which they can't

[01:11:10] tell the truth for whatever writers.

[01:11:14] Here, you can't just be like, oh, yeah, I'm in

[01:11:17] stiff to those hookers.

[01:11:19] Can you believe it?

[01:11:19] And they came up to me.

[01:11:21] You couldn't even say that, right?

[01:11:22] When Harper approaches him in the morning.

[01:11:24] So I'm just kind of like, you're just setting.

[01:11:27] Just setting everything up.

[01:11:29] It also makes you wonder if, even if he said that at this point,

[01:11:32] I don't know if Harper would fully believe it.

[01:11:36] Like I think he's screwed up too much at the beginning.

[01:11:39] So even if he like had video footage from the room

[01:11:44] and showed it to her, she would still be like, well,

[01:11:46] what happened outside of the room?

[01:11:48] Like I think he's severed the trust that they have.

[01:11:51] So no, he should still be answering honestly,

[01:11:54] but even answering honestly is not going to solve

[01:11:57] their issue at this point.

[01:11:58] Yeah, neither one of them can trust what the other one says anymore.

[01:12:01] Yeah, I mean, yeah.

[01:12:03] And he's maintaining that he's perfectly honest, but that's bullshit.

[01:12:06] Yeah.

[01:12:07] He didn't only lie by a mission, but he just purposefully

[01:12:11] painted a different picture than the one that he knew was true.

[01:12:14] So he's a liar.

[01:12:15] But yeah, I'm glad you said poor Will Sharp, Jenny,

[01:12:17] because I don't think it was on the podcast,

[01:12:20] but somebody told me that he's great in this

[01:12:23] British TV show called Flower Black Comedy.

[01:12:27] It's so good. Yeah.

[01:12:28] And that he actually wrote it and he's characters.

[01:12:33] And so I got to watch that because I like I don't like when

[01:12:37] fans think of an actor and a character as the same person,

[01:12:42] especially when the character is such a Nick

[01:12:44] and then that rubs off on the actor.

[01:12:46] So I'd love to see him in something where it's weird

[01:12:48] because I've been a fan of his for quite a while.

[01:12:50] I somehow found flowers.

[01:12:51] I don't know how I found it.

[01:12:52] I might have been on CBC

[01:12:55] and but it's weird because he plays this character

[01:12:59] with a really thick Japanese accent.

[01:13:02] And he's Japanese, I guess.

[01:13:05] But I was like, I don't know.

[01:13:07] Is this I don't know because I think he's

[01:13:11] Japanese as a he's a Japanese man.

[01:13:13] But I'm like, I don't know how much

[01:13:16] how much I love you making the Japanese accent.

[01:13:17] But I guess it's OK because you are Japanese.

[01:13:19] Anyway, I'm kind of conflicted with his mother's Japanese.

[01:13:22] So he's great.

[01:13:23] And he also and Olivia Coleman is in Flowers.

[01:13:27] So he and he also directed wrote and directed

[01:13:31] a British show called Landscapers.

[01:13:34] That Olivia Coleman is in and she it's like a British.

[01:13:38] They were like famous fraudsters, I guess, or criminals or no, murderers.

[01:13:43] Anyway, so he all three.

[01:13:46] Well, yeah, kind of all three.

[01:13:48] And so she plays this British

[01:13:51] historical figure in that.

[01:13:54] And he so he I think is like kind of powerful.

[01:13:57] And he just started as a writer.

[01:13:58] And so

[01:14:01] it's so it's weird watching him play

[01:14:02] Ethan because I'm like he's a comedy writer and he's a comedy actor.

[01:14:04] And Ethan is not funny in any way.

[01:14:08] It's such a weird what's so weird.

[01:14:10] They must be pals.

[01:14:11] I don't know. That's also a good sign of a good actor, too.

[01:14:15] If you're like, wow, I could never picture him doing this type of role

[01:14:19] and he's doing it and doing a good job.

[01:14:20] Yeah. Yeah.

[01:14:21] But I just feel like Mike White was like, all right, I want you to play this

[01:14:24] passionless, distracted, withdrawn, anxious, angry dude, you know?

[01:14:32] He's doing a great job.

[01:14:33] Right. A challenge.

[01:14:36] And a lot of British a lot of British actors on this show.

[01:14:40] So Mike White's like, I could go with the roulette table of American acting

[01:14:46] or could go to probably everyone probably graduate from the Royal Shakespeare

[01:14:51] whatever theater school for all.

[01:14:53] I'm doing the rewatch of Walking Dead right now.

[01:14:57] We just did the pilot and I'll put that out on Halloween.

[01:15:00] Awesome.

[01:15:01] You know, that's if you are a fan of that show, the pilot is one of the best.

[01:15:05] And it's Rick Grimes, of course, and Morgan's first appearance.

[01:15:09] And that's Andrew Lincoln and Lenny James, two Brits

[01:15:13] playing Georgia, Southern American dudes.

[01:15:17] Have enough hold those accents for a very long time.

[01:15:22] All right. Any other big points or should we go to notes?

[01:15:25] I guess the only thing I want to discuss and we touch it a little bit

[01:15:29] is whether or not we think something happened between Harper and Cameron

[01:15:34] based off of the evidence in this episode.

[01:15:37] And the one thing that really stood out to me is as Harper and Ethan

[01:15:44] are leaving the room and Cameron comes out of his room.

[01:15:49] He says, oh, hey guys, wait up for me.

[01:15:51] And he says, like, oh, I just had to grab my book.

[01:15:54] And then he catches up to them.

[01:15:56] But nobody asked him about his book.

[01:15:58] Nobody asked, like, what's taking you so long?

[01:16:01] Like, what are you doing?

[01:16:01] He just immediately steps out.

[01:16:04] Do we believe he would read?

[01:16:05] Come on. Yeah, that too.

[01:16:07] Like, yeah. Yeah.

[01:16:09] And also just it's so suspicious.

[01:16:11] Like she had the latch locked and what do you have this locked?

[01:16:16] Oh, because I was drinking tequila

[01:16:18] and I just do it out of habit and I'm in.

[01:16:20] She just had like three different reasons for it right away.

[01:16:23] And I think it's bullshit.

[01:16:25] Like I it seems very suspicious to me.

[01:16:28] And the door in between the door is open in between.

[01:16:31] Unlocked. I don't know why.

[01:16:33] And at the beginning of this season, she was the one

[01:16:36] the person showing the room was like, yeah,

[01:16:38] would you like to see out on lock and she's like,

[01:16:40] we won't be opening that door.

[01:16:42] So it's very weird that it's open on her side.

[01:16:47] And then, yeah, just her whole attitude change,

[01:16:49] which I get how it's rough that she comes out

[01:16:53] and she's finally happy and Ethan's like, well, why are you happy now?

[01:16:56] But I also was like, well, why is she happy now?

[01:16:58] It's like you were being so like

[01:17:01] rough with him all day.

[01:17:02] And then suddenly after it seems like you went and hung out with Cameron for a bit,

[01:17:07] that something suddenly you're in like a much better mood.

[01:17:11] And then she does have a reason for that.

[01:17:13] But all the hickeys to that.

[01:17:16] Yeah, her clothes were on backwards.

[01:17:20] I think it didn't in a way.

[01:17:23] It doesn't matter if it happened or not

[01:17:24] because it did in Ethan's mind and that's all that matters.

[01:17:28] Yeah.

[01:17:28] And so that's why I think we're not actually getting to find out the truth.

[01:17:31] And I think the truth might in my mind,

[01:17:34] I because I don't know that you can go from being.

[01:17:39] I just don't know that you can flip like that.

[01:17:43] Like like basically what I suspect happened is Cameron hit on her.

[01:17:49] She kind of went along with it.

[01:17:51] She pushed him away.

[01:17:52] She's like, we can't do this.

[01:17:54] And that's all you need to like make your mood better, to make you feel wanted.

[01:17:59] Like it isn't that she necessarily needed to have sex with Cameron.

[01:18:03] I don't think that what Ethan envisions is actually necessarily what happened.

[01:18:06] I think it's more like Cameron tried to put the moves on or

[01:18:09] nuzzled her neck, tried to kiss her and then she's like, we can't do this.

[01:18:12] And that's all she needs.

[01:18:14] And that's all she needs.

[01:18:14] But when she says nothing happened, why are you being weird?

[01:18:17] I think it's kind of somewhere in between.

[01:18:19] Like yeah.

[01:18:21] And also interesting that she says the same thing to Ethan that he says to her.

[01:18:25] It's like nothing happened.

[01:18:26] You should be happy.

[01:18:27] Like under these circumstances, I didn't do anything.

[01:18:31] Yeah.

[01:18:32] But we also see her talking to Cameron up at the bar

[01:18:37] and he puts his hand on her shoulder, which we haven't seen much touching.

[01:18:41] And then she's like not very smoothly like shaking her shirt off of

[01:18:47] or her bathing suit cover off of her shoulder.

[01:18:49] So it's like clearly she's she's reciprocating a little bit or receptive.

[01:18:55] Yeah, so Ethan's got a lot of clues sitting there.

[01:19:00] And like we said, he kind of did to himself.

[01:19:02] Yeah, I mean, I don't want to excuse it actually.

[01:19:05] I mean, I think it does matter in some sense, whether she did anything

[01:19:08] because even if I mean.

[01:19:13] You shouldn't do that.

[01:19:15] If you're an American, you know.

[01:19:17] I feel like the show is trying to set this up so that we don't see what happens

[01:19:22] and the audience gets to have their feelings.

[01:19:26] And I think everybody is pretty much like either could have happened,

[01:19:29] but then we might tend one way or another.

[01:19:32] And I do tend to the the route of that nothing happened because to be.

[01:19:37] Yeah, I mean, as you said, like, wouldn't your heart rate be up?

[01:19:40] Wouldn't it be a little wet and sweaty instead of just like, hi, you know,

[01:19:44] when you open the door?

[01:19:44] She had to take a minute.

[01:19:46] Composers. Oh, I think it takes more than a minute.

[01:19:48] But I mean, anyways.

[01:19:52] Maybe Cameron wasn't that heart and heart rate inducing.

[01:19:58] Yeah, I mean, it depends on how far it actually went of how much you

[01:20:02] there would be any evidence.

[01:20:04] Like if you said sweaty, you know, that means it went pretty far.

[01:20:08] Yeah. Yeah.

[01:20:09] But but you're saying that for you.

[01:20:12] I mean, would it really bother Ethan if it didn't go all the way?

[01:20:15] Like if there was making out or or I think knowing what it I think it would.

[01:20:21] Well, I was going to talk disparagingly saying it would bother him

[01:20:24] even if it was just a kiss or whatever.

[01:20:26] But I think it would bother me too. Yeah.

[01:20:30] So it's enough that she wouldn't want to lie about it

[01:20:34] just to just like he said, to not have to deal with the messy

[01:20:38] consequences of something so minor.

[01:20:41] Well, part of this is that she feels like he just lied because he did.

[01:20:45] And so she's I mean, she wouldn't have done that otherwise.

[01:20:49] Assuming something did happen.

[01:20:50] OK, but what I guess my question is where do people stand?

[01:20:55] I'm like nothing happened except for some like making out.

[01:20:57] Yeah, some.

[01:21:00] I'm like something happened and it was like making out.

[01:21:06] I think they started in only fans.

[01:21:08] They actually couple episodes while they were in there.

[01:21:12] I feel like something happened probably not quite as extreme as what.

[01:21:17] Yes, what?

[01:21:18] Thanks, but it again.

[01:21:20] Jenny.

[01:21:22] Jenny Ryan, what to speak to this?

[01:21:25] What do you think happened?

[01:21:26] Oh, I think what I said, which was

[01:21:29] they Cameron probably

[01:21:33] tried something it boosted her ego.

[01:21:36] It made her feel flattered and then she rejected them,

[01:21:40] but she still let it go a bit farther than she should have.

[01:21:42] But she feels like she now has something of her own.

[01:21:45] She has a secret of her own that she can hold to herself at night

[01:21:49] when the way Daphne has been coaching her.

[01:21:52] Exactly. Yeah.

[01:21:53] And that's when she comes.

[01:21:54] She's like, now I'm going to get a trainer.

[01:21:57] Yeah, I'm in a good mood now.

[01:21:59] All right.

[01:22:00] Anything any other points before we move on to notes?

[01:22:02] I guess the only other thing that might be worth mentioning

[01:22:06] is what we've discovered about Quinton through Jack.

[01:22:10] And he basically says that his uncle

[01:22:14] doesn't necessarily have money that Quinton

[01:22:18] almost had to sell the house that they're hanging out at.

[01:22:21] And that if he had done that, the family would have killed him.

[01:22:24] And I don't know if that phrasing is intentional.

[01:22:27] The family. Is that what he said?

[01:22:29] I think I thought he said it would kill him.

[01:22:32] It's his family home.

[01:22:34] It's his family.

[01:22:34] I think that's what he said.

[01:22:36] It would kill him to lose the place.

[01:22:37] Yes.

[01:22:37] But it is a big deal that if what Jack is saying is true,

[01:22:41] that Quinton has no money because,

[01:22:44] Tawnyah said earlier, it's nice to know when someone has money

[01:22:46] because then you know they don't want anything from him.

[01:22:48] Yeah, which implies.

[01:22:49] Jack also said he's about to come into some money.

[01:22:51] Right. Yeah.

[01:22:52] It seems to be implying heavily that something is going on here.

[01:22:56] And that yeah.

[01:22:58] Quinton.

[01:22:58] And at this point seeing Greg and hearing all this from Jack,

[01:23:03] I'm like, OK, this is fucked.

[01:23:05] They're going to take her money somehow or something.

[01:23:08] Yeah. Well, and it was interesting when they had that conversation

[01:23:11] because when he's like all these lords and princesses

[01:23:15] don't actually have any money.

[01:23:16] And I was thinking of Cam and the theory

[01:23:18] that Cameron actually has no money.

[01:23:21] Yeah. I know.

[01:23:23] I wonder. I still wonder about that because he hasn't paid.

[01:23:26] But yeah, anyway.

[01:23:28] OK, I'm going to go into my notes.

[01:23:31] They keep focusing on this ceramic head,

[01:23:34] which is about infidelity.

[01:23:36] And just as a reminder, Rocco said, I think in episode one,

[01:23:40] that's Testa de Moro story is a more came here a long time ago.

[01:23:44] So do still local girl.

[01:23:46] But then she found out he had a wife and children back home.

[01:23:48] So she cut his head off.

[01:23:50] And I looked it up.

[01:23:52] The part that Rocco didn't say was she decided to use it as a vase

[01:23:55] for her flowered balcony so her lover could stay with her forever.

[01:24:00] And also, these vase heads apparently are all over Sicily,

[01:24:04] like for reals.

[01:24:05] So that's a very good background for this season.

[01:24:09] Yeah, for sure. The white lotus.

[01:24:13] And then I thought the music when Harper sees Ethan talking to Mia

[01:24:19] and Lucia about the money they're owed

[01:24:22] and there's some uncomfortable music.

[01:24:24] And I thought that sounded familiar

[01:24:27] because the movie The Girl with All the Gifts

[01:24:31] was also scored by Cristobal Tapia Devere.

[01:24:35] And I'm like, that sounds kind of like the music in that movie.

[01:24:37] And so I went and just played the first song from the soundtrack.

[01:24:41] And it's the exact same thing.

[01:24:46] I'll play it right now.

[01:24:47] Wait, I need to turn this off so you guys can hear it.

[01:24:52] Takes a second for it to get going.

[01:24:56] You recognize that?

[01:24:57] Yeah. Yeah.

[01:25:04] Anyway, so he just I guess was like, Mike was like,

[01:25:07] I need an unsettling piece of music for this.

[01:25:09] And he's like, well, I already got one.

[01:25:10] Can I just drop it in there?

[01:25:13] I would love it if this guy would score or like do a remix

[01:25:17] of the Yellow Jackets theme song.

[01:25:20] Oh yeah.

[01:25:23] We should try to put that out into the world somehow.

[01:25:26] We just did.

[01:25:27] We did.

[01:25:28] We did.

[01:25:29] It's manifested now.

[01:25:30] I mean, growing back in doing,

[01:25:33] starting at the beginning of The Walking Dead again, reminds me

[01:25:35] that when I was much younger and more ambitious podcaster

[01:25:40] in my 30s, that I was able to get all the actors

[01:25:43] from that show on the podcast and talk to them.

[01:25:45] And I haven't tried as much.

[01:25:48] I kind of got burned out on that whole thing,

[01:25:50] doing conventions forever.

[01:25:51] But it would be really fun to try to get like Yellow Jackets

[01:25:54] people on or even White Lotus.

[01:25:56] Yeah, especially since there's a break basically right now

[01:26:00] between oh, and actually none of these actors are

[01:26:03] recurring really for White Lotus.

[01:26:05] So you'd think they'd be able to talk with us.

[01:26:09] But then again, White on Walking Dead,

[01:26:11] there were a lot of them were new and that show was fresh

[01:26:15] and they wanted publicity.

[01:26:16] Yeah, true. It's easier.

[01:26:17] So I don't know. We'll see.

[01:26:19] But and then the only other note I had is

[01:26:23] I guess the happy birthday song in Italian has the same melody

[01:26:27] because we heard Mia singing it to Valentina.

[01:26:31] Maybe they just did that for an American audience, I don't know.

[01:26:33] Yeah, I wonder if it's the same in different languages.

[01:26:36] Well, as a child of a French immersion program at school,

[01:26:39] where we know we spoke French in school,

[01:26:43] there's a Quebecois birthday song.

[01:26:48] And then there's the French happy birthday.

[01:26:50] So I think countries or this is traditional because happy birthday to you

[01:26:54] is so ubiquitous and so I wouldn't be surprised

[01:26:57] if there's also an Italian traditional birthday song.

[01:27:00] And but this was was she Marilyn Monroe in here?

[01:27:04] That's what I thought.

[01:27:05] She sang the birthday song.

[01:27:06] Yeah, yeah.

[01:27:07] Also, if she sang the traditional Italian birthday song,

[01:27:10] people would be like, what is this?

[01:27:12] It's not a sexy.

[01:27:14] Yeah, but it helps.

[01:27:16] Do you say that they do sing the traditional American

[01:27:20] birthday song in other languages?

[01:27:22] It's normal to do that sometimes.

[01:27:24] Yeah, that's cool.

[01:27:27] All right, Jenny Quo, what do you got?

[01:27:30] OK, I I look I zoomed in on the book that Cameron went to get.

[01:27:34] Oh, you know, book stylist, you know, book stylist and all that.

[01:27:38] Like, what did they decide he what book represented him?

[01:27:41] And it was gone bamboo, a crime thriller written by our beloved

[01:27:46] Anthony Bourdain.

[01:27:48] Oh, wow. Awesome.

[01:27:51] Which I hadn't heard of.

[01:27:52] And now I'm like, oh, I might want to read that.

[01:27:54] I guess it's a mystery.

[01:27:56] It's interesting.

[01:27:58] Nobody reads quite as much in this series.

[01:28:00] Like you would think Harper'd be reading all the time.

[01:28:03] She feels like a bookie person or Porsche should have something.

[01:28:07] But nobody only Olivia and Paula.

[01:28:09] Yeah. And well, Shane read that one book the whole week.

[01:28:14] That's right.

[01:28:16] Which is about to slide up.

[01:28:17] That I read. So.

[01:28:20] Somebody drew some pictures in there for him.

[01:28:23] Yes, Jenny.

[01:28:24] So Bert shows vulnerability in his is one scene, the events of the day

[01:28:29] and possibly the music in the background, making him think of his loss of homecoming.

[01:28:34] And I guess the question is, can we believe it?

[01:28:36] Does it stick?

[01:28:37] Given what we know, others think of his marriage.

[01:28:41] So and what just happened in the day, do we think he's deep down

[01:28:46] just missing his homecoming even though

[01:28:50] you totally messed up in his marriage as his son sees it?

[01:28:55] I think he does.

[01:28:55] I think I was the actor Abraham.

[01:28:59] If Abraham Murray.

[01:29:00] Yeah, if Abraham Murray does a good job.

[01:29:02] I mean, it would be hard to pull off and it's not like a 100 percent stick.

[01:29:07] But, you know, I think he pulls it off and does seem genuinely full of grief.

[01:29:13] Yeah, but he doesn't get that happy ending that he was hoping for.

[01:29:17] Oh, what's the happy ending that that that like you die first?

[01:29:21] Oh, I meant with meeting the the long lost family.

[01:29:25] I'm not sure the question you're asking, Jenny, do we believe what about it?

[01:29:28] When he starts, you know, he's talking when he's at the restaurant,

[01:29:32] he's talking basically about missing his wife, right?

[01:29:34] He's talking about his grief and that he has no home to go to now.

[01:29:38] Yeah, yeah.

[01:29:39] That's what I totally presumed that monologue was all about.

[01:29:42] Did you get that?

[01:29:44] I guess. Yeah.

[01:29:46] I think it was a few.

[01:29:48] Yeah, about a few things.

[01:29:49] But yeah, the fact that he doesn't have a home to go to when he gets back

[01:29:54] to the states, but also he came to Italy to find a home as well.

[01:29:58] And he wasn't able to find one there either.

[01:30:00] So yeah, he's he's kind of and it

[01:30:03] Dom's marriage is falling apart.

[01:30:06] So like that other family home he could have gone to, it does seem like

[01:30:10] he's he's on an iceberg that's melting and there's no family or home coming to go to.

[01:30:15] Well, and to the end, to the end of like to this point, I guess,

[01:30:20] Bert, like that we were talking, you were you were talking, I wasn't I was just listening.

[01:30:24] That's how he had a wound on his head.

[01:30:29] And we're and I thought the same thing, which was like,

[01:30:31] was that just the actor got a cut?

[01:30:33] So they had to like write into the story.

[01:30:35] And I think it's almost like they put the bandage on his head as a way to symbolize

[01:30:40] yet another he's crumbling, he's cracking.

[01:30:44] He's vulnerable, like Jenny said, he's vulnerable and he's starting to like

[01:30:48] it's falling apart all of what he thought was true.

[01:30:51] And so it's even physically like this wound, this bandage is like symbolic of that.

[01:30:57] Yeah. Happening.

[01:30:58] His story is a lot about aging because early on when they when Albie was like,

[01:31:02] once you hit 50, you should never show your general school.

[01:31:06] Something like that.

[01:31:07] So how he's falling down and how the world's moving past.

[01:31:12] Yeah, his idea of how things should be.

[01:31:15] It's all about aging.

[01:31:16] And now people want to forget the past, which includes him.

[01:31:21] OK, my first note was OK, so for some reason, I don't know if this

[01:31:25] is anything I might just be trying to come up with something to pad my essay here.

[01:31:29] But Ethan, Ethan is in red in a lot of this episode.

[01:31:33] And I don't know what that means.

[01:31:34] Is he like scorned?

[01:31:35] Is he a scarlet woman?

[01:31:38] I don't know. Was he marked in some way?

[01:31:41] The other thing about Ethan that I liked was we see people swim

[01:31:45] when we see the water quite a bit in the show.

[01:31:48] But what he we see him swimming through a school of fish.

[01:31:53] And I don't know if that just happened, but they kept it in.

[01:31:56] I was like, is this telling us there's more fish in the sea?

[01:31:59] Are we predicting Ethan is swimming with fishes?

[01:32:03] Like, what's that about?

[01:32:04] So I like that like, whoo, and also.

[01:32:11] It was really OK in both series, both both seasons of this show,

[01:32:15] it is maybe crazy that they keep going to eat in the same restaurant.

[01:32:21] And at one point in this one, Ethan's like not Ethan.

[01:32:24] Cam's like, why are they keeping us menus?

[01:32:26] We know the menu back and forth.

[01:32:27] And I'm like, but resorts have multiple restaurants, don't they?

[01:32:31] Like they.

[01:32:32] Well, in the first season, we do see them eating

[01:32:35] in a couple different places because they're.

[01:32:37] But when Jenny and I went there, I noticed that like it was more apparent

[01:32:41] when you go there that there's one little place over here and one little place over.

[01:32:44] So it's really just two places.

[01:32:45] OK, so maybe in this one, it's like just one.

[01:32:48] Anyway, it does seem like just one in this place.

[01:32:51] Maybe if we went there, yeah, they're in a little bit more in the city.

[01:32:55] Like they could go down.

[01:32:56] Yeah, like why are they going out for dinner?

[01:32:58] It is weird. And this season, they do go out way more,

[01:33:02] which I think feels different than the last season where they were only in the resort.

[01:33:07] Yeah, COVID, they couldn't leave because of COVID for filming.

[01:33:11] OK, and the other one I wanted to say is I think it's interesting

[01:33:14] watching Luchia's outfits because when she's with Albie,

[01:33:19] she's wearing shorts.

[01:33:21] She's got her bunny hug on.

[01:33:23] She's casual.

[01:33:26] She's more casual.

[01:33:27] Do you know what a bunny hug is?

[01:33:28] I realize I just said a word you might not know.

[01:33:30] I don't know.

[01:33:31] It's a Saskatchewan word.

[01:33:33] Saskatchewan is a province in which I live and so it's not a Canadian term.

[01:33:36] It's a Saskatchewan word for zipped up hoodie or a hoodie.

[01:33:42] So it's a bunny hug, a bunny hug.

[01:33:45] Yes, bunny.

[01:33:46] So she's wearing her bunny hug and she's wearing her shorts and she's got earrings.

[01:33:50] Like, she just looks more like a casual girl as opposed to trying to attract somebody.

[01:33:56] I thought that was an interesting kind of choice with her outfits is that

[01:33:59] there she's just a girl who's she's just a girl dating a boy.

[01:34:03] She's not trying to seduce.

[01:34:06] Yeah, she's more of a girlfriend, which I thought was

[01:34:08] which is interesting about her her outfits.

[01:34:10] Yeah.

[01:34:11] That's because she's dressing for the girlfriend experience.

[01:34:17] Dress for the job you want.

[01:34:19] I don't know.

[01:34:20] She's she's very good at her job and she she's she knows, oh,

[01:34:24] this calls for this kind of wardrobe.

[01:34:28] Unless she's, you know, happy to be with him anyway.

[01:34:32] I don't know.

[01:34:32] Yep. And comfortable.

[01:34:34] Yeah. Anyway, so I thought that was that's all I had.

[01:34:36] So I also picked up on some of the underwater shots that you were pointing out.

[01:34:42] I do think it's because we know the bodies are found in the water.

[01:34:46] In this episode, Ethan sees a problem starting to occur with Harper and Cameron

[01:34:54] and he jumps in the water and swims away.

[01:34:57] And then you do see the him underwater with the school of fish.

[01:35:00] But then later when we see Lucia and she decides to drive away with the guy in the car,

[01:35:08] they immediately also cut to an underwater shot of a school of fish,

[01:35:12] which also made me think like, oh, is like she's being taken away.

[01:35:15] Is she going to end up in the water at some point?

[01:35:18] So I do think they are teasing us with that with everybody.

[01:35:23] And then the only other thing that I noticed was that when Tanya starts

[01:35:29] kissing Niccolo, we cut to this painting of a woman.

[01:35:34] Yeah. Yeah.

[01:35:34] It's like an angry red faced woman.

[01:35:36] And it's the same painting they cut to after she found Quentin and Jack together as well.

[01:35:42] I'm not sure what the meaning is.

[01:35:44] Did you notice the painting?

[01:35:46] The woman's holding a knife.

[01:35:47] Oh, yes. She's holding a knife down by her thigh.

[01:35:50] Yep. Yeah.

[01:35:51] So it's like it seems to be.

[01:35:55] I don't it doesn't feel like it directly represents Tanya

[01:35:58] because she doesn't feel like like an angry woman who's ready to like attack somebody.

[01:36:03] So it is interesting that it keeps coming up when she's in,

[01:36:08] I don't know, in the two scenes don't really quite connect.

[01:36:10] She's discovered something in that first one.

[01:36:12] And in this one, she's just starting to have sex with Niccolo, I think.

[01:36:18] So I'm hoping there's a little more clarity to that.

[01:36:22] In the next one.

[01:36:24] But I just want to finish my last note, which is let's just think of that last scene.

[01:36:30] Naked Jigolo, Madame Butterfly Music, Tanya in her symphony and salmon dress.

[01:36:38] And he's going down, going down.

[01:36:43] It was just such a.

[01:36:45] I mean, that's as white lotus always has to end on a on a certain

[01:36:50] high point. And that was the app for this episode.

[01:36:53] So I enjoyed it.

[01:36:55] It was just, you know, because you don't see that you do not see that on TV a lot.

[01:36:59] Right. Or movies or anything.

[01:37:01] It was just like, yeah.

[01:37:03] Anyways, all right.

[01:37:06] Worth noting.

[01:37:23] All right, time for some news.

[01:37:25] Just a couple of things from Astoria and Deadline.com.

[01:37:28] I guess the Tokyo Film Festival happened recently and they were talking about financing films.

[01:37:33] There was this speaker whose job it is to get more films made in Japan.

[01:37:39] And it came out kind of indirectly that White Lotus Season Three was originally

[01:37:44] looking to film in Japan.

[01:37:47] I'll read from the article producer Georgina Pope said she went

[01:37:52] or she was detailing a location scouting trip.

[01:37:56] She went on recently with a high profile showrunner along with his producers

[01:37:59] and studio executives.

[01:38:00] Pope said the showrunner was eager to shoot in Japan and locations

[01:38:03] worked well with the show's creative vision.

[01:38:06] Quote, it was a great scout.

[01:38:07] We saw some absolutely stunning locations all over Honshu.

[01:38:10] The showrunner loved it all and I was feeling very confident that I had it all in the bag.

[01:38:14] She said, however, one day during the trip, the showrunner and his producers

[01:38:17] were pulled away by their buzzing phones.

[01:38:20] Quote, it was a Thai production company informing them that the Thai government

[01:38:24] had just announced a renewal and improvement on their film incentive system,

[01:38:29] a 30 percent rebate for their project that meant four point four million dollars alone.

[01:38:33] She said, everyone looked at me with sympathy.

[01:38:36] At the time in Japan, we had no incentive in place at all.

[01:38:39] I could not respond with a concrete answer.

[01:38:40] All I could hear was the sound of a thirty five million dollar project

[01:38:43] flying out the window and quote and then following the keynote,

[01:38:47] deadline confirmed that the showrunner was Mike White

[01:38:50] and the scouting trip was for the third season of The White Lotus.

[01:38:54] Yeah, that would have been cool.

[01:38:56] Yeah, I like it would have been.

[01:38:59] I do feel like you like that idea better, Jenny.

[01:39:01] No, but, you know, I just

[01:39:04] it's the drama behind the drama.

[01:39:06] Come on, they just have a five million deal and you're in your city.

[01:39:10] Sitting there saying like I can't just offer it.

[01:39:12] They, you know, this will they forgive me after right for making the offer yet?

[01:39:19] Oh, that, you know, I mean, obviously she couldn't, but still I could I could feel that.

[01:39:24] And I do think it'd be a totally different feel.

[01:39:26] I mean, it's because I fantasize that White Lotus will go into season 10

[01:39:30] and they will eventually make it to Japan, but it's probably unlikely.

[01:39:33] So I just know that there is a version was either Thai or Japan and they both

[01:39:39] sound promising and they had to go with one.

[01:39:41] And that's what makes me sad.

[01:39:43] Thailand seems like it maybe has a little bit more remoteness ability,

[01:39:48] which I think White Lotus is really good with where Japan feels like you would

[01:39:51] have to interact with Japan while you were there.

[01:39:55] Might have been a slightly harder story to tell to be secluded

[01:39:58] for the ultra rich or something.

[01:40:00] Yeah, I guess that's yeah.

[01:40:01] I mean, Japan feels more Zen and I think they're going for that

[01:40:07] Eastern religion kind of thing.

[01:40:09] But I like Thailand just for one selfish reason that we've covered the Darrell

[01:40:13] show recently in France where I've been and we've covered White Lotus in Hawaii

[01:40:17] and Italy where I've been to both those places, not Sicily, but Italy.

[01:40:21] And now Thailand, which I've spent some time in.

[01:40:22] I've never been to Japan yet.

[01:40:23] I want to go though.

[01:40:24] Yeah.

[01:40:25] Well, they're waiting for you so that they can make that season.

[01:40:29] All right.

[01:40:30] And then the last story us weekly asked Theo James, who plays Cameron.

[01:40:36] If Daphne's trainer is the father of her child and he said, I think one of them

[01:40:42] is Cameron's kid, you know, Megan's character.

[01:40:45] That's Daphne is one of the most accepted characters on the show

[01:40:49] because of her warmth and bubbliness, her energy.

[01:40:52] She can go out and deliberately make friends like when she's

[01:40:54] initially against the ice wall that is Harper.

[01:40:57] At the same time, the way Daphne rectifies the situation is she does some

[01:41:01] pretty appalling things to feel a level of power over Cameron.

[01:41:04] Their relationship was born of love, but it's fallen into a cycle of games and control.

[01:41:09] So we know at least three people who think Daphne's trainer is the father

[01:41:13] of one of her children, Theo James, who plays Cameron, Megan Faggy, plays Daphne

[01:41:17] and me.

[01:41:20] But Mike White hasn't said.

[01:41:22] Interested as far as I could find.

[01:41:23] Yeah. That's a good point, too, that Daphne did somehow manage to make Harper her

[01:41:28] friend to the degree that they are friends, because that's impressive.

[01:41:33] Harper was not an easy person to break through.

[01:41:37] Yeah, Daphne is the warmest person on the show of both seasons, I would say.

[01:41:43] I would like to see a scene with Daphne and Armand.

[01:41:48] Just out, out, pleasanting each other.

[01:41:54] OK, I see we have a guest here and it's time for some guest feedback.

[01:41:58] We don't have that much this week.

[01:41:59] I posted it a little bit late, but hopefully we'll get a little bit more

[01:42:03] for the finale, plus one of our regular feedback.

[01:42:05] Leevers is here with us today.

[01:42:09] Speaking of which, Jenny, would you like to read that?

[01:42:11] Jenny Ryan.

[01:42:11] OK, Tammy Barr says overall so far we like season one more than season two.

[01:42:17] However, we really like the unreliable narrator scenes we have in season two

[01:42:22] that did not exist in season one.

[01:42:24] For example, Ethan's vision of what he thinks happened between Harper and Cameron.

[01:42:28] Another example was Harper surrounded with all the dudes and no, no seems like

[01:42:33] that was her impression and maybe not actually real.

[01:42:36] Makes us wonder what else might be a character's perception versus reality.

[01:42:40] Lots of blurred lines and also lots of coke lines this episode.

[01:42:44] Speaking of lines, I so want our Porsche to bust into Tanya's room

[01:42:48] and yell at her to stop what she's doing.

[01:42:52] You mean the sex scene?

[01:42:55] Over the lines or the line?

[01:42:58] Oh, maybe that's what it was.

[01:42:59] Yeah, yeah, I like this unreliable narrator thing yet.

[01:43:03] Yeah, the scene with Harper seemed out of place like it was out of a dream or something.

[01:43:09] Yeah, it looked like they were going to break into a musical and that's the

[01:43:12] scene that's a recreated scene as well.

[01:43:14] So because I guess that's what it's like when you're on it.

[01:43:17] Wait, did she take the editable yet?

[01:43:19] She hadn't.

[01:43:20] Now, that was from the adventure, which had

[01:43:26] the woman that Tanya is trying to be at the beginning of this episode

[01:43:30] or a season in her name.

[01:43:32] That's right. I wonder if people, you know, some of the younger viewers

[01:43:36] are getting any of these these callbacks, right?

[01:43:39] Like the Marilyn Monroe, do they understand that?

[01:43:43] Some of them.

[01:43:44] Because Alive and Tura went, well, I didn't even know that until you brought that up.

[01:43:48] I I'm curious.

[01:43:50] Discovered it when I was watching it the first go through.

[01:43:53] I did not just have that knowledge.

[01:43:57] And we have our call from Wendy.

[01:44:00] Hi, Jenny, Jason and Randy.

[01:44:02] This is Wendy.

[01:44:05] Season two, episode six.

[01:44:07] I started binging these and I couldn't stop.

[01:44:12] The Ethan Harper Cameron Love triangle.

[01:44:16] I don't know what's happening here.

[01:44:19] Ethan's being a real douche.

[01:44:23] Like Harper's being super honest with him and asking him about their relationship

[01:44:30] and Ethan's avoiding the situation and not being truthful.

[01:44:35] Did Harper.

[01:44:37] And I just pausing here because that's one point we didn't make,

[01:44:41] but I did admire Harper for just being straightforward.

[01:44:45] Like we're not attracted to each other anymore, or at least you're not to me.

[01:44:48] And Ethan didn't want to talk about it because he's a dork.

[01:44:52] And we're too young for this, which is basically saying I'm not accepting this.

[01:44:56] Old yeah. Yeah.

[01:44:58] It's like, hey, look, we need to address this one way or the other.

[01:45:01] Cameron did anything happen between the two of them?

[01:45:06] I believed Harper here.

[01:45:10] I believed that she was telling the truth, but something's

[01:45:14] definitely off.

[01:45:18] The episode leaves us feeling really tense and anxious about everybody's fate.

[01:45:25] I feel like anything could happen, and I don't know what's going to happen.

[01:45:30] But I'm definitely hooked super into it.

[01:45:34] I'm going to be watching the next episode right now.

[01:45:38] It's three AM.

[01:45:41] I will say that I loved Valentina and Mia hooking up for her birthday.

[01:45:48] It was really sweet.

[01:45:50] I really like Valentina.

[01:45:51] I feel like underneath there is a really genuine,

[01:45:57] shy person who's just figuring out her own sexuality.

[01:46:03] And I really liked it.

[01:46:05] I think the actress played it perfectly and was really a sweet scene

[01:46:10] between the two of them and kind of went from being heartbroken

[01:46:16] about Isabella to having this like really nice experience that was really sweet.

[01:46:21] So I was glad to see that.

[01:46:26] All right, I can't wait for the finale.

[01:46:31] Here we go.

[01:46:33] I'm really glad you called because that was another thing we didn't really address

[01:46:37] that seemed between Valentina and Mia, which that was totally sweet

[01:46:42] and very well acted just like you said.

[01:46:44] Mia's like freedom with her sexuality as this season has gone on is pretty

[01:46:49] interesting because she starts out being like my heart belongs to this one guy.

[01:46:53] And by this point, she's like, I'll actually help other people

[01:46:57] with their sexual needs at the just going for it.

[01:47:01] In a way that just seemed just nice.

[01:47:04] Yeah, yeah.

[01:47:06] Like she seems like she's going to enjoy it and they will.

[01:47:09] Yeah. I mean, I think it seems like that.

[01:47:12] That that make us realize things that are not that simple.

[01:47:17] Like we could pull back if this was like a dark, dark story,

[01:47:21] we could pull back and then Mia suddenly like files a sexual harassment suit

[01:47:25] against Valentina saying that in the US is like that, right?

[01:47:30] Which we see a lot and then it's so weird because at that point you're just like,

[01:47:34] but in my brain of possibilities and between two people, anything can happen.

[01:47:40] Right? And it's so hard to make a judgment.

[01:47:42] And whenever I see all these headlines, I'm always kind of like.

[01:47:47] I don't really know what happened, you know, because it can be so subtle.

[01:47:51] It could be like this, right?

[01:47:52] Yeah. If you look at the outlines of it, it seems wrong.

[01:47:56] But when you look at the details with sweet.

[01:48:00] Yep. Yeah.

[01:48:03] Yeah, that's why you should try not to judge if you can help it.

[01:48:06] All right. That is our show.

[01:48:15] Thanks so much for listening, everyone.

[01:48:17] Thank you, Jenny. Very good to have you on.

[01:48:19] Joyed it.

[01:48:21] It was delightful.

[01:48:22] Glad you made it on next up is the finale, the White Lotus season two,

[01:48:26] episode seven, Arrivederci and that'll be all for our coverage

[01:48:30] until the White Lotus season three comes out hopefully next year.

[01:48:36] Yeah, hopefully next year.

[01:48:38] Maybe they'll speed it up a little bit and we'll get it sooner.

[01:48:41] Actors are still on strike, are they?

[01:48:44] I think so, yeah.

[01:48:46] Maybe they'll do a reality show version where somebody's going to die.

[01:48:52] Yep.

[01:48:54] He does have survivor experience.

[01:48:57] So if you want to write in or send us a voice message about it,

[01:49:00] you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com.

[01:49:05] And while you're there, be sure to check out our other shows.

[01:49:08] Yeah, like if you're into Buffy the Vampire Slayer,

[01:49:14] we have the still slaying Buffy vs. Podcast that

[01:49:17] Cara and Penny started recently

[01:49:19] and they're just covering their favorite episodes.

[01:49:21] So not all of them, they skipped all of season one.

[01:49:24] So that's great.

[01:49:26] I know there's a lot of hardcore Buffy fans out there.

[01:49:28] I hopped on an episode of that

[01:49:29] and it was so much fun to go back into that show

[01:49:32] and looking at it through like a very current lens.

[01:49:37] There's some interesting things that popped out.

[01:49:39] So worth checking out.

[01:49:41] What show, what episode are you on?

[01:49:44] Ted, so it's the one with John Ritter.

[01:49:47] Oh, wow.

[01:49:48] I can check that out.

[01:49:48] Yeah, it was really good.

[01:49:50] Pardon.

[01:49:51] All right, that is our show.

[01:49:53] Thanks for listening.

[01:49:54] And remember, if you can't be satisfied living here now,

[01:49:57] you're never going to be satisfied.

[01:49:59] So let's get pissed, eh?

[01:50:03] Ladies and gentlemen, at this time,

[01:50:07] we'll be switching over to spoiler hour.

[01:50:09] So if you don't like spoilers, I suggest you get the hell out.

[01:50:15] Go on and get the hell out.

[01:50:18] You don't want spoilers.

[01:50:21] Get the hell out.

[01:50:26] Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

[01:50:28] Don't forget to tip your podcasters.

[01:50:32] OK, we're going to go into just a few quick spoilery things

[01:50:35] that we want to talk about, but we didn't want to spoil you guys.

[01:50:38] So I think in the finale, if I remember right,

[01:50:42] Harper admits that she kissed Cameron, right?

[01:50:46] I don't remember.

[01:50:47] I do think she, yeah, she admits something.

[01:50:49] Yeah, so she was lying to Ethan and it's interesting

[01:50:54] that apparently Cameron confirmed to Harper at the bar

[01:50:59] that Ethan didn't cheat.

[01:51:00] You know, he said, oh, he was a good boy.

[01:51:01] And yet Harper still went and cheated.

[01:51:05] It's just a kiss, but yeah, yeah.

[01:51:07] Yeah, at least that's what I remember.

[01:51:09] We'll have to see if we're right about that.

[01:51:13] Well, she's still mad that he lied partially.

[01:51:15] Yeah, that's true.

[01:51:16] But you know, in a way, then she understands the

[01:51:19] the attraction of lying partially.

[01:51:21] You know, once you're in that position, you're like, oh, I see why

[01:51:24] people lie partially so much.

[01:51:25] And it just for me, the way I see it and the way Jenny, you don't.

[01:51:30] Jenny, quote is there's a bunch of other reasons why she would do that,

[01:51:34] not just the lying, but also she just wants someone to want her.

[01:51:37] I mean, also he, yeah, Cameron backs up like, no, the condom was mine,

[01:51:42] but Ethan still spent the night doing Molly with sex workers

[01:51:47] and one of them kissed them in their room.

[01:51:48] So he tried to downplay it and everything.

[01:51:50] Yeah. Jack promises Portia

[01:51:53] they'll be back in time for the party that night, even though

[01:51:57] now we know he has no intention of bringing her back

[01:52:00] by then. And I also thought it was interesting that Quentin

[01:52:02] standing there watching as they drive away.

[01:52:04] Yeah, he's like going according to plan.

[01:52:06] Yeah, yeah. Smoking his cigarette.

[01:52:08] Yeah, just a bad ass.

[01:52:10] Yeah. And then last for me is when Lucia said to Alvi,

[01:52:15] you're kind, I wish all men were like you.

[01:52:19] Jenny mentioned this to Jenny Orion during the podcast, but I cut it out

[01:52:22] because I thought it would be a little spoiler.

[01:52:23] But it's in Italian.

[01:52:25] And so that means that she actually does

[01:52:32] have that sentiment because she knows he doesn't speak Italian

[01:52:34] and that he's kind and I wish all men were like you.

[01:52:36] But I remember when we watched it the first time,

[01:52:38] it made me feel like, OK, yeah, I'm sort of back and forth

[01:52:42] on whether she actually does like him, but it seems like she does.

[01:52:44] So then I was less, I was more shocked when it turned out to be a scam.

[01:52:48] But I like the white lotus can have both things being true

[01:52:50] because things are gross and complicated.

[01:52:53] Yeah.

[01:52:55] Anything else that I didn't mention?

[01:52:58] I just a couple of things.

[01:53:00] I don't know if this was a spoiler or not, so I saved it for this part.

[01:53:03] But when Mia is playing, I do like her her musical choices.

[01:53:08] It's interesting they're American, but then I guess if all your tourists

[01:53:11] are American, she'd be playing songs they know.

[01:53:15] So she sings Patsy Klein and I was like, oh, is this some kind

[01:53:18] of foreshadowing to the cowboy?

[01:53:21] Like Montana Cowboys.

[01:53:22] She's playing a country western song.

[01:53:25] Aren't they all just like straight up love songs to classics, I think, or not?

[01:53:31] I don't know. Well, yeah, the Patsy Klein song is about loss.

[01:53:36] Oh, OK. All right.

[01:53:37] Loss of love.

[01:53:38] It wasn't her intention.

[01:53:39] And the other spoiler I had was so the reason they were able

[01:53:44] to manipulate Tanya into making her distracted

[01:53:48] is they throw a lot of things at her.

[01:53:50] They throw things they know she's going to like.

[01:53:53] So they throw men, they throw adoration, they throw beauty, they throw.

[01:54:00] But they also throw cocaine and she says, oh, I haven't done this in a while.

[01:54:05] But yet she laps it up like a thirsty, thirsty animal.

[01:54:11] But I wonder, did how did they know cocaine was going to be it?

[01:54:15] Did they have a bunch of other drugs on hand just in case?

[01:54:18] Like, how did they know cocaine was going to do it?

[01:54:21] Did Greg tell them get a cocaine?

[01:54:24] She's like, where's your cocaine bag?

[01:54:26] She's like, let's look in your cocaine bag.

[01:54:28] So how did they know that that was going to be it?

[01:54:30] Because if it was me and they're like, we're going to throw a party

[01:54:32] and all the cocaine I walked in a room, they're like, look at all these lines

[01:54:35] of cocaine, I'd be like, yeah, have fun over here.

[01:54:38] Like, how do they know what to?

[01:54:40] Yeah, or was that just a lucky guess?

[01:54:43] Yeah, Greg told him.

[01:54:44] Now, Greg was like, yeah, she used to party when she was young.

[01:54:47] She likes cocaine. Yeah, OK.

[01:54:49] And what was it? Club 57 or whatever it's called?

[01:54:53] Scene 57 Studio 54.

[01:54:58] That's cool.

[01:55:00] That's the one. Anything else?

[01:55:01] Well, with that, there's also.

[01:55:05] Quinton describes Nicolo as being from a very influential local family,

[01:55:11] which is the exact same way he described the people who

[01:55:15] probably killed the woman on that island and took all of her stuff

[01:55:19] as being very influential, influential local family.

[01:55:22] So it's sort of a foreshadowing of like, yeah, this

[01:55:26] this guy is going to do the same to you and take all of your wealth.

[01:55:30] And I did.

[01:55:31] I don't have a reasoning for it, but what part of the plan is Nicolo?

[01:55:36] It just sort of feels a little bit like they're like,

[01:55:39] we're going to give you the best last night of your life type of thing.

[01:55:43] Yeah, I think they take her.

[01:55:45] What do they do?

[01:55:46] I forget they take her out on a boat to kill her, right?

[01:55:49] Yeah. So they want to get her on the boat.

[01:55:51] Do they use him to lure her on the boat or something?

[01:55:54] I think so because I think he's supposed to kill her.

[01:55:57] Like, yeah. Wow.

[01:55:59] That is right.

[01:56:00] She's she's going to trust being on a boat, a small boat alone.

[01:56:04] They're going to send her back to the mainland in the small boat with.

[01:56:07] That's what just kind of like, I'm not sure I want to be

[01:56:11] on a small boat alone with you know, at that point.

[01:56:14] But you know, trying to make it so she's comfortable.

[01:56:17] OK, yeah.

[01:56:19] And I don't think any of those high class

[01:56:20] gays are killers like they wouldn't they wouldn't dirty their hands.

[01:56:24] So they hire someone who would.

[01:56:26] Right.

[01:56:28] Also.

[01:56:29] They're coming in the money.

[01:56:32] Not a spoiler, but we didn't discuss.

[01:56:34] Did we think Nicolo was above average, small, too big?

[01:56:42] Smaller than camera.

[01:56:43] Yeah, smaller than.

[01:56:46] But we saw it from the front this time.

[01:56:49] I it's also like it's.

[01:56:52] I mean, it doesn't matter until it's.

[01:56:55] Right? Like come on, Mike White, show us erect.

[01:56:58] We want the erect.

[01:56:59] It's not damn it.

[01:57:01] I am.

[01:57:03] I was too busy looking at his face and thinking about his personality.

[01:57:06] Yeah, that's what matters.

[01:57:08] Know he was naked.

[01:57:10] You didn't realize that, did you?

[01:57:14] I don't see nudity.