14: "Same Spirits, New Forms" (S3E1)

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Huh... Look, Buddhism is for people that want to suppress in life. They're afraid. Don't get attached. Don't have desires. Don't...even...trry. Just sit there in a lotus position with a thumb up your ass. But, I mean, it is good to want things. You know, as long as you can get them.

[00:00:30] I mean, getting what you want in life, that's happiness, bro. But what do I want, I guess? Pussy? Money? Freedom? Respect? I mean, look, you're smart and good-looking, Locke. I mean, sure, we need to buff you up a little bit, but you've got so much ammo. You don't need to shrink away from life. Get laid.

[00:01:05] Welcome to The White Lotus, a podcast dedicated to the show, The White Lotus. We're the resort managers. If you need anything, let us know. And please, enjoy your stay. Sawat de Kup, everyone. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Jenny. And I'm Randy.

[00:01:35] In this episode, we're covering The White Lotus, Season 3, Episode 1, Same Spirits, New Forms. Welcome, welcome, and now for your listening pleasure, we'll have a fun, in-depth conversation enhancing your experience of this show. Right this way, everyone. Welcome. Welcome. If you haven't listened to us before, welcome. If you go back in the podcast feed, you will see that we covered every episode of The White Lotus, Seasons 1 and 2.

[00:02:02] And just quickly, a little bit about us for newcomers. We're Podcastica. We've been podcasting about great TV for almost 15 years now. We only choose shows that we're really into and that we like a lot. We really love The White Lotus. Personally, I think this show is really smartly written. It's funny. It's edgy and dark at times, which I love. I think it has something to say about the human condition.

[00:02:29] I like that it has flawed characters with a great cast and beautiful locations that we can simultaneously fantasize about going to while laughing at the cringy behavior of the characters. So just all kinds of good stuff. That's why we're here doing this. Anything else you guys want to add to any of that? Yeah. I would say the thing that I love about this show is that it is such a dark humor. And set in such a beautiful location.

[00:02:56] I love the juxtaposition of those two things where you're enjoying the beauty and the calm of what should be a nice vacation, but there's always something under the surface that's bubbling. And it's so interesting to see when those things come to the surface. There's a lot of juxtaposition going on in this show of all kinds of different things. Yeah. Jenny, you're super picky. It's exciting. I mean, like, yeah, it needs to be interesting. It's entertaining.

[00:03:24] And I like entertainment that also doesn't stop, you know, like doesn't have too many slow areas or areas that make me roll my eyes or just feel like, uh-huh, that I've seen that before. So White Lotus, you know, ticks all those boxes. It's always in a beautiful place with beautiful people. And it keeps you on your toes. I mean, it's, you know, they're not, it's always interesting, right? I mean, there's bugs.

[00:03:54] It's beautiful. And there are bugs. And then the people are beautiful. And they have some problems that are just so much fun to watch. Yeah. Thailand is actually like that. I've been to Thailand and it's beautiful. And there's this combination of serenity and intensity and dirty and gorgeous, you know? And it's great. Anyway, I might talk a little bit more about my experience there later, but let's get into the first episode here. White Lotus season three, episode one, same spirits, new forms.

[00:04:24] Love that title. And we've been reading a plot summary on our podcast lately just to sort of orient people. So... And where do you get the plot summary from? From Wikipedia. And the quality of the writing varies by show, but I think that the White Lotus has a very smart audience. So... Well, I guess it's because I disagree because I was reading that plot summary and I was like, how do we know that was a dead body in the water? How do we...

[00:04:53] I thought it was an alligator. Yeah, feel free to point out. I feel like we're supposed to just use the information that we have. We can't assume. You're just going to take whatever Wikipedia says, like, as gospel. I mean, the very... Five seconds later, that person could go, oh my god. You know? We don't know. Randy, would you like to read that? Yeah, sure.

[00:05:18] So, Zion, the college-aged son of Maui White Lotus spa manager Belinda, begins a meditation session at the White Lotus in Koh Samu. I hope I'm going to just butcher... Koh Samui. Koh Samui. There you go. Before being interrupted by gunfire. While scambling through a stream to look for his mother, he discovers a dead body. One week earlier, a group of new guests arrive at the White Lotus.

[00:05:45] Middle-aged Rick Hatchet arrives with his much younger British girlfriend, Chelsea. However, Rick's constant negative and short-tempered attitude quickly irritates her. Rick inquires on the whereabouts of the hotel owner, Shritshala's American husband, Jim Hollinger. Wealthy businessman, Timothy Ratliff, along with his wife, Victoria, and their three children, Saxon, Piper, and Lachlan, arrive for Piper's college thesis on Buddhism.

[00:06:13] Lachlan is torn between spending time with each of his siblings, and Timothy receives several calls from the Wall Street Journal regarding possible illegal activity with a former business partner. Jacklyn Lemon, a popular TV actress, arrives with her childhood friends, Kate and Lori. During dinner, an alienated and neglected Lori excuses herself to cry in her room. Security guard... Guy talk? Do we have a guitar? That sounds good to me. Yeah, okay.

[00:06:43] Security guard guy talk flirts with health mentor Mook after giving her a ride to work when her motorcycle breaks down, but she shows little interest. After a disastrous dinner with Rick, Chelsea befriends Canadian model Chloe, whose boyfriend is revealed to be Greg, the late Tanya McCoy's widower. Dun-dun-dun! I have to say, the moment Greg was unveiled, I literally screamed. Yes! Also went, Greg!

[00:07:14] And she also texted me, is that Richard Grease or whatever the actor's name is? John Grease? And I saw that because we're not in the same place right now, and luckily I was like, I don't know who that is. So I was also completely surprised when I got to that moment. Yeah. Because I hadn't seen it yet. Yeah. No. Oh, for a minute there, I was like, oh, screw it.

[00:07:40] I had the thought, I was like, I want to avoid spoilers or anything like that, but I was like, I mean, how many spoilers could there be in the first episode? That would have been a big one. Right, and I started watching like an hour after it was released, so I just presumed you were like, done. Yeah. Yeah. It was so funny because when I saw him, my first thought was, oh my God, it's Greg. And then, oh, that's who that guy is. Greg. So many mysteries solved.

[00:08:07] And then my third thought was like, that guy gets to go with Mike White to each of his locations. And Jennifer Coolidge is like, oh, come on. How come John gets to go? And I get killed off in Italy. I didn't know he was going to be in it. I knew Belinda was going to be in it. No, they kept it quiet. I think this was a surprise, right? Very, very well done. No clue. It was great. So good. It adds an additional wrinkle that I'm sure we'll get into.

[00:08:36] But first, let's just talk a little bit about what we thought about this episode in general. Randy, what did you think? Did you like it? Not like it? I did like it. I was always worried with this type of show where a lot of it hinges on the enjoyability of the characters. But I am hooked into each one of them. I don't know if there's a single character they introduced this episode where I'm like, yeah, I'm not that interested in their story.

[00:09:06] Like, I really want to know what's going to happen with each one of these people. I don't know. Just the show feels like a fun way to test your skills of perception. Because everyone's maybe hiding something in the beginning. Or a statement might mean a little bit more than it seems. So it's a fun way to play detective psychologically in these first couple of episodes. And I love it. And the bonus perk of Belinda being back is also great.

[00:09:37] Jenny? Oh, it was great. I mean, it started out slow. It started out, I was kind of like, uh-oh, uh-oh. But, you know, there were so many characters. They threw them all at us all at once. And at first, I think like any show, you base your knowledge of the characters on the very teeny bit of information you get. And it's kind of hard because there's like 20 people right up front, right? A lot of setup. And so at first, yeah, you're just like, who are these people?

[00:10:05] But then as they get their screen time and as each situation develops, you definitely get more complexity and become a lot more interesting. And their potential conflicts get a lot more interesting. Yeah, right. There's a lot of potential energy here. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, honestly, after the first watch, especially because we didn't get the Lulu, the Lulu Lulus, I was like kind of starting off on a little bit of a, oh, footing.

[00:10:35] And then I watched the whole thing. I thought it was beautiful for sure. But I think this is the most beautiful we've seen in my opinion. I mean, it's all subjective. But I wasn't quite as pulled in with the characters as much as I was for the first two seasons, especially the first season, which I loved. But second watch, I started to get more into those little subtleties like you were talking about, Randy. Everybody's hiding something. And also just the interesting dynamics between different sets of characters and the potential of those.

[00:11:04] A lot of contrast and opposites and, you know, Buddhism versus narcissism kind of things like that. So now I'm much more into it. It just took me a little bit of consideration before I felt that way. But I wish I could watch the second episode right now. Yeah. It was one of those rare ones where I was just like, man, I need more already. All right. Let's get into our points. Jenny, want to go first? Well, I have to admit that intro music was disappointing.

[00:11:33] You know, when it first came out, you were like, oh, because the Italian one was just really amazing and really set the scene. So, you know, it was kind of bland. And so you kind of entered on a bland note. But then the rest of the music for the episode was amazing. Like any of those songs, who would have made a good intro song, right? They all had more verve and personality.

[00:11:57] But I especially like the ones that are Thai because they're really kind of rockin' and yet tropical. And yet just – they're just different. They feel different. They put you in a different kind of mood. Definitely feel like you're there. This show put me in a mood for sure watching it. Yep. It made me want to be on vacation there, which I feel like they do beautifully every season. Yeah. True. Yeah. Well, I have a point on aesthetics and environment that would go off of that.

[00:12:27] You mind if I go next, Randy? Do it. So, yeah. I think most people understood what I meant when I said we didn't get the Lulus. But I just love the intro music for the first two seasons. And I figured this would be a spiritual version of that same thing. And it kind of was, but they left out that like signature thing of it. And I think it'll grow on me actually. It is a beautiful piece of music. But I think maybe they just didn't put that in there because it would have been too samey or something. I don't know. Maybe.

[00:12:57] Same composer. Crystal Ball, whatever his name is. But it was kind of ethereal and spiritual. And I did like it, but it was also disappointing. But the rest of it, like, I just love the look of this episode, the green and the lushness. And immediately there's a feeling of so much more life. It's jungly.

[00:13:19] There's foliage, monkeys, insects, animal sounds, which I think the life maybe contrasts with one of the themes of the season, death. It's about like the first season was money. The second was sex. And now it's like death and spirituality and Eastern religion. Everything is viscerally beautiful. I really felt a calm during some of the scenes. Beads of water on lily pads.

[00:13:47] The dark wood that the resort is made from, which reminded me of the resort I was in when I was in Thailand. Was it that one? No, it wasn't quite at that level. But it was an island that was about 40 miles away from there called Koh Tao, which is close to Koh Samui. And it was really nice, really beautiful. The music soothing, a lot of soothing music that just made me feel relaxed.

[00:14:15] You know, you see an opening in the clouds as they float past the moon. Just some really nice visuals and feelings to it. One thing I noticed also sort of aesthetic wise is when they did the English subtitles, when people were speaking Thai, they were like overlaid over, I think, Thai. Yeah. That's what I think was happening. It was very cool. Is it just like because it looks cool? Yes. It might be. Yeah. And then the monkeys.

[00:14:46] I'm just going to stick that in here. You know, one of the characters, Laurie, was excited to see monkeys. And it reminded me of Mark Mossbacher from season one talking about monkeys. And he, I went and looked it up, the dialogue. He had asked his son, Quinn, if he was gay. And he's like, I just want to be real with you. And he's like, what's real is like gay, straight, whatever. We're just monkeys. We're just fucking monkeys. We're just animals.

[00:15:14] We want to be like superheroes and respectable fathers and pillars in our communities, whatever. But in fact, we're just monkeys living in our own little monkey pods driven by base instincts to create these hierarchies and hump each other. And so I kind of wonder if it's deliberate to focus on the monkeys because it makes me want to go back and watch the first two seasons again just to see if there's any little echoes of things, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:44] There's a lot of monkey art in the opening intro as well. So I do feel like there's something about them that they're... The primal-ness. Yeah. Yeah. I did appreciate that some of those shots of the monkeys were CG. So they're being nice to the monkeys when they need them to do specific things. It does look like they use shots of just like nice setting monkeys where they're just filming them.

[00:16:10] But prior that scene with Lori where they're climbing back up the trees, I'm pretty sure those are all CG monkeys. Yeah. Yeah. Some of those shots, now that you say that, seem like they would have been too good to be true. Right. All right, Randy. What do you got? Well, that might lead... You know, so I went through and I looked at the intro and all of the artwork. Yes. You see behind all of the folks. Thank you.

[00:16:37] I don't know if that's worth waiting till the end because it's basically going to be going through each character. Yeah. It might be once we're feeling more familiar with all the situations and stuff. Yeah, I think that might be a better place to put it. Well, then my first point would be, I think in discussing this, you kind of almost have to go through each of the little groups. Yeah. So the first group I want to talk about is the normal family. And that's what Parker Posey's character refers to them.

[00:17:06] She says to the woman helping them, we're a normal family, you'll see. It's just a very odd... As they're being very weird. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, there is something odd and weird in this family. And I can't tell if it's being presented to us that way as like, I don't know, throw us off a little bit. Or if it's something simple.

[00:17:32] The main thing that I see is there's a power struggle between the two older siblings and their younger sibling. They both seem to want his attention and almost seem like they don't want him to be with the other sibling. And I'm not entirely sure what that reasoning is. Because both of them want him to share their rooms with him that night.

[00:18:02] And the older brother, Saxon... These are names I am not used to using. Saxon really seems upset at the idea that Locke would be sharing a room with Piper. And he says, you shouldn't share a room if you have full-grown genitals. Which is saying it as crassly as possible. But she seems almost insistent on having him stay with her.

[00:18:29] And the thing that kind of got fed into this whole situation for me was something to do with sex and sexuality. And I think that's because of Saxon. He seems very obsessed with sex and pleasure and working. Like, that's his main goal most of the time. So I feel like some of that's being put onto the dynamic between he and Locke.

[00:18:55] Like, he almost seems to imply if he shares a room with his sister, they're going to have sex. Which may just be a weird thing Saxon is saying. But it does... Because we don't know these characters well enough yet, you are kind of wondering, is there something to this? But then as we see later, when Locke and Saxon are sharing a room, and Saxon decides he needs to masturbate. And lets his brother know about it.

[00:19:24] And then he goes into the bathroom, and he leaves the door open for a minute. And then Locke is watching him there. And that then made me wonder, is Locke figuring out his sexuality right now? Or does he have it figured out? And his sister knows that. And that's kind of why she's like, no, he should stay in my room. And is there a little bit of a battle going on between the two of them and figuring out Locke's identity?

[00:19:51] I mean, right up until that last scene of Locke kind of staring at his brother, I was like, oh, there's the most normal person in this whole cast. Yeah, I don't totally have a handle on that. But I think what this is about is Piper and Saxon are two extremes.

[00:20:11] I think she's very interested in Buddhism, in meditation, in being present, and sort of letting go of attachments. And Saxon is the opposite. He's a hedonist. He's very focused on sensation, on getting off, on getting things. He's addictive. He doesn't want to get rid of his phone, you know? So they're very much on the opposite side of the spectrum.

[00:20:39] And they're battling to pull Lachlan over to their side. And so the pool, like Saxon wants him to go to the pool. That represents looking for babes, right? And she wants him to go to the temple, which is about meditation and spirituality. And so I feel like it's almost once you lay it out like that, it's almost too neat, too neatly explained. But then the part about him.

[00:21:07] See, I think the reason why, as you're saying it, Saxon is like kind of focused in on, well, you guys can't sleep together because you have genitals. It's because that's what he's focused on. So he's kind of projecting his own thing on it. And he's also just very physical. Like he gets all up on his sister and she's like, get away from me, you know? And he's just so like, he's like the monkey, you know, physical. And she's like a superego maybe. I don't know if that actually fits. But anyway, you get the idea.

[00:21:35] Yeah, I do like that layout. That actually locks some of it in for me a little bit where I was unsure like what was going on there a bit. But I hadn't quite pinned down Saxon and Piper as being extreme ends. And you laid that out very nicely. But that still doesn't explain why he was staring at him when he was about to masturbate, though. No, that does leave something. Jenny, how would you explain that?

[00:22:03] Yeah, Jenny, explain the scene where we saw the penis. Do you really want to hear my explanation? I mean, okay, so there's a certain kind of narcissistic. I won't even say narcissistic, but if they love themselves, they will love people who look like them. It was what I took away from it. So you think he was admiring him? No, I think he's just – that doesn't creep him out. I think he's curious and it's okay to look. Okay.

[00:22:31] I mean, all I know is if there are people out there who are okay saying their siblings are hot, then obviously there's some sort of mindset that is hard to understand but happens out there in the world. I guess it's the only way to say it. I mean, Saxon's coming from the same mindset, right? I mean, this is a family with no boundaries, right? You can tell.

[00:22:58] You've got a dad who obviously is successful in business, probably doing dodgy things. A mom was like, oh, just pop this for that and then I'm going to pop that for this. I'm going to sleep during the day. But, you know. And then the brother obviously is – the older brother is obviously very, very weird. I mean, I don't know. At first when the characters first came out, they all seemed a little too ridiculous.

[00:23:25] And I don't know whether that's my West Coast bias because when we watched the first season of White Lotus and it's that West Coast family going to Hawaii, I was like, oh, yeah, I totally know this family. I know that these people seem like totally normal, typical people. But these people are from North Carolina, right? North Carolina. Weirdos out there. I don't know what's up. For weird, yeah. So all I could think of was like, maybe this is normal from North Carolina.

[00:23:54] I just don't know. You just haven't immersed yourself in their culture yet. This is normal. Vacation idea. One thing that I picked up on a little bit with Saxon is that he seems like he does a lot of talk about having sex and getting pleasure and working. But we didn't actually see any evidence of him doing any of those. He's trying.

[00:24:21] But he didn't actually start talking to any of the women until his brother showed up. And I feel like there was probably a little either a confidence boost by having somebody else there or he's showing off a little bit in front of him. Trying to prove something. Yeah. Which I thought was an interesting dynamic there. And also his attempts to hit on the women were funny. And when he turns over to Chelsea and he's like, so how do you get a drink around here?

[00:24:48] And she's like, you go up to the bar and order one. And then turns over. He's just fully shot down the whole time. Yeah. He says it's a numbers game and he's very bad at it. His one saving grace is he does seem to let it roll off. It doesn't seem to get to him when he fails. But he's just a shallow person. And it makes me, at least from what we've seen so far, and it makes me hope and wonder if his character will get more interesting.

[00:25:17] Like Quinn did in season one. We could have easily written him off as just a loser. But he got really interesting. So I feel like some of these characters may surprise us over the course of the season. Yeah, for sure. Locke feels like he's set up almost like a Quinn character. But I feel like there's going to be something else to him. Seems like the parents have on the surface a good relationship. Obviously the husband's maybe hiding a couple things from them.

[00:25:46] But in the way that they discuss their relationship, it sounds like they love each other and they're happy with each other. But she says, so many people talk about how great a man you are, which is an interesting way to say that. She's not saying I think it or she's just saying so many people tell me that. She had said a bunch of things about how much she loves him and she's grateful for him.

[00:26:13] But it's just something about that phrasing that I'm noting for now. We'll see if it carries over and means anything later on. Now I remember that scene because I was like, is this just another example of how weird this family is? Like you sit in bed and tell each other how great that you, I mean, your husband is. After saying you have a pretty wife, right? Yeah. And needing a moment. I did wonder what you were thinking when you watched that, Jason. Whether you're like, see, that's a part of walk.

[00:26:45] Don't you think you have a pretty husband? Give me some ideas. I'll pull out my notebook next time we're in bed. I feel like the point of these two is he's entitled. He wants everything just the way he wants it. And that seems to have served him well in the business world. Like he's built this life and she's happy to be in that.

[00:27:13] I think going on about where Duke University and Tar Heels, as if everyone should know what she's talking about. And then she's not comfortable there. She wishes she could have went somewhere familiar because I think she likes the familiarity of her life and her social circles. They're powerful in their social circles and things like that. And I think she genuinely does give him credit for that.

[00:27:41] And, you know, I thought it was pretty funny when they got there and the woman saying, you have to put your phone in this bag for a week. And they're like, what? It's like he didn't even do any research on the place because he's just the type of guy that will go in and say, no, this is what I want. I'm going to pay you. Just show up and give me, accommodate me. And and I'm cheating a little bit here.

[00:28:05] But the actor said at the end in the little thing at the end, he said, this guy is the victim of a set of beliefs that say laws don't apply to you. So that's just kind of the way he treats the world. Right. Like none of this applies to me. I just say what I want and get what I want. And that's probably what this whole scandal is. And the Wall Street Journal is about to expose him and his partner. And by the way, the reporter said a phone number to call him back at. So I called it.

[00:28:33] And it was the Federal Labor Relations Authority answering machine. Wow. Which is this is an authority, an independent agency of the United States government that decides cases concerning the negotiability of collective bargaining agreement proposals, appeals concerning unfair labor practices, exceptions to grievance arbitration awards. So I don't know if that was Mike White just saying it's something along these lines, you know, if you want to get to the clue.

[00:29:03] But by the way, Trump recently fired the chairwoman of this agency. And so I think this thing about Ratcliffe saying he's a victim of set of beliefs that say laws don't apply to you is not reflective of the current. But anyway, so, yeah, I just I think the thing about her just being all into him, like people tell me what a great man you are. That was a weird way of phrasing it. And I don't totally get it.

[00:29:31] But I do think that their house of cards is about to come tumbling down. Yeah. Yep. She's going to be disillusioned. It does seem inevitable if you stay at the White Lotus that your family is going to fall apart to some degree. One thing. Yeah. I mean, one thing I've noticed about the White Lotus, because my first reaction is to think, oh, everybody who likes each other is going to end up hating each other by the end of this. And everybody is going to be ruined for everybody.

[00:30:00] But I'm like, no, that's not exactly what happens. It does for some people. Yeah. Some people end up dead. But some people have a really heartening ending to their story. And so and there is a heart and a gentleness to some of it. It's it's random and varied. But I think we can't just presume that it's all going to go to hell for everyone. Well, just popping off of that a little bit for the intro artwork. I'll just talk about Parker Posey's. Yeah.

[00:30:28] It shows two monkeys smoking something from a long pipe. So my guess and these have never been like 100 percent prophetic. Sometimes they're just like what percent would you say? 60 percent. OK, good enough. But yeah, I was wondering because it shows two monkeys. They're sort of like hiding away and it looks like they're smoking from like a bong or I don't know if it's something that I don't recognize.

[00:30:56] But I was kind of wondering if her and her husband were going to just like fully chill out and like either become like two stone, not stoners, but like some degree of like they're going to find a medicine or something. Metaphorical and I don't know, become more relaxed with each other or something. Like doesn't have to be metaphorical. Pot is legal in time. OK, well, that is.

[00:31:23] I think but it has to be like some sort of royal sanctioned pot. Royal pot only. That guy seems like he would get the royal pot. Yeah, it's true. All right. I'm going to do one really quickly about a few notable actors and what I've seen them in. What what popped out to me? Oh, yeah, that person was in that. So just quickly, the three friends, Kate, Laurie and Jacqueline, the actress.

[00:31:51] Kate is Leslie Bitt played by Leslie Bibb. And I remember her as the reporter, Christine Everhart in Iron Man. Laurie, the one who cries while drinking. That's Carrie Coon, who was really good as Nora Durst in The Leftovers, that Tom Parada show. So Jacqueline, the movie stars Michelle Monahan, who was in True Detective season one as Woody Harrelson's wife. Oh, yep.

[00:32:19] Walton Goggins is legendary. He's he plays Rick Hatchett, the total asshole. And he's great as Boyd Crowder in Justified. And also recently, Cooper Howard slash the ghoul in Fallout. Yeah, he's having a little bit of a resurgence right now. Yep. And I'm told he's really good in The Righteous Gemstones, but I haven't seen that. He was also in The Shield, which was also a really good TV show there. Parker Posey has been in a bunch of stuff.

[00:32:46] I loved her in Best in Show, and she was on Louie, Party Girl. The husband, I don't remember. He's Jason Isaacs. He's English. He was Lucius Malfoy in the Harry Potter movies, but I don't really remember him. So how do you feel about these accents? Are they successful? I don't know.

[00:33:11] Sometimes I think with accents, you just got to let it wash over you for a little bit, and eventually you're like, okay. They take you out of it. I've been to the South, and people in the South are losing their accents. So it was just weird to hear a strong accent, actually. But anyways, keep going. Sorry. They were pretty pronounced, yeah. The bro-y son, Saxon, that's Patrick Schwarzenegger, who's the son of Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver. Crazy. Yeah.

[00:33:40] I don't know what he's been in, but. When they were sitting on the boat, I was like, I wonder which one of those is a Schwarzenegger. The, like, large one. He looks like a thinner Arnold. I was waiting to see if he was going to sound like this, you know, at all. No. Just born that way. He looks like his mother, because the person who actually looks like Arnold is that, uh, is the. The one that he had with his house. Yeah.

[00:34:08] That one totally looks like Arnold. Totally looks like Arnold. Where you were like, uh, that's your house sitter's kid, because. It sort of looks like a T-1000 or a T-100. Yeah. Yeah. First Natasha Rothwell is Belinda, who was in season one of White Lotus and John Grease as Greg Hunt. He was, John Grease was also the guy in the closet in my wife's favorite movie, Real Genius.

[00:34:38] He was also Uncle Rico in Napoleon Dynamite. Yes. Which is. So good. Uh, Mook, the pretty health consultant. I haven't seen her, but I read. She's Lalisa Manobal. No. How do you say that word? That's Lisa from Blackpink. Yeah. She's a, she's a Thai rapper, singer, dancer, actress. And yeah, she's in the South Korean girl group, Blackpink. Wow. And White Lotus is her acting debut. Wow.

[00:35:08] I heard it was a huge deal when she was, uh, cast. Yeah. Because like all of Thailand was happy that she was cast. And so I can't imagine the pressure on Mike White to write what kind of role for her. Because I don't quite know what it's like over there with her. Because I hear with South Korean actors, singers, they have to have a certain reputation.

[00:35:31] And even the minorist infractions that we, we practically expect out of our celebrities would ruin their careers over there. Yeah. Yeah. This guy in Squid Game, he's a rapper, Top. And he smoked pot and was disgraced. Oh, wow. And, and excommunicated basically. And the guy who makes Squid Game kind of revived his career by putting him in that, even though people were like, oh, you're the pot smoker.

[00:36:02] That's awesome. So, I mean, I don't know whether she's going to have a dark role or not. I mean, that, she might not, but. She was fine. I thought she was good. Yeah. I don't know. I, I, I, unfortunately I come from, when I see her, then like the entire K-pop industry is like behind her and all I see is I'm just like, her skin's a little too good. Come on. No one looks like that. Well, they made a point to say, oh, you're so pretty. Like everybody. Yeah.

[00:36:30] You know, that's part of her character that she's unusually pretty. Yeah. Yeah. I just don't want like K-pop expectations to ruin the grittiness and dirtiness. I hope there's a musical episode. Yeah. I really wanted to just start rapping. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:13] Okay. I'm seeing it actually. Are you saying that I'm an asshole? Come on. Yeah. Sort of wiriness and intensity. So, yeah, he's, he's doesn't have perfect looks, but he's a personality that comes through, which is what I call the anti K-pop.

[00:37:38] But also his girlfriend, I don't know this actress, but you know, she's, she seems very confident. And, and I, you know, what I also love about White Lotus is they just point out the obvious and put it right out. So my first thought, my first deep, dark, evil thought was like, man, her teeth, she has quite an overbite. Right. Yeah. And then right, right away, Chloe is like, I love your teeth. Oh, thank you.

[00:38:07] You must be English. Right. It seems like sort of an insult, actually. I know. Yeah. Well, I mean, but you have to admit it, it stands out. It makes the actress who she is. If she ever fixed it, she wouldn't be this actress anymore. Right. So in a way it kind of marks her as who she is. Yeah. And she owns it. Yep. Kind of like Jennifer Grey in her nose. Right. Oh, we're going for her again. Oh, what happened? What happened to her? Right before we start recording, you just go on rants about her nose. I'm kidding.

[00:38:38] What? I have no idea what you're talking about. But I mean, you got to admit, he's a pissy guy. Yeah. Yeah. He's in a bad mood. They have a strangely close relationship because she seems to just understand his moods. Right. And she feels comfortable enough to insult him and all that stuff. To say, you got issues, buddy. Yeah.

[00:39:04] But at the same time, I do feel like there's something transactional going on. I don't know. I mean, obviously she's young and he's old. But, you know, I do feel like they're not really together because they love each other. They're kind of like... He doesn't seem to like her at all. Yeah. Or like he doesn't want to be there for the wellness or to enjoy himself. He's there to meet the husband of the hotel owner, right? Right. Who I guess is also part owner.

[00:39:31] But I'm like, he doesn't seem to enjoy anything about her to me. She's made it her job to... I'm going to bring you back around and find your joy again. Which knowing this show, that could actually happen, which would be interesting to watch. But he's like, fuck everything. Yeah. But still with her. Is the other odd part. Like, he does seem very dismissive of her, but he sits down and has dinner with her.

[00:39:58] And like, he could just hang out at the bar doing his own thing. So there's something odd that keeps pulling those two together. And I don't... We clearly don't have that piece of information yet. But she like, does seem to know everything about his moods and his attitudes. But she doesn't know that he's not allowed to go to Australia. Australia, which seems like an odd piece of information to have not learned about somebody.

[00:40:21] If you also understand how they react to most stimuli, I guess. I don't know. Just seems odd. I mean, it sounds like... It feels like he has some sort of mission, almost. Right? Yeah. He's trying to find this husband for whatever reason. And she's along for the ride. Yeah. Whether as a girlfriend or as a cover or as a whatever. Or both. Or anything. Yeah. Yeah. I mean...

[00:40:51] Maybe it's a cover. Things like that happen. Yeah. Very well. He does give this almost a feeling like he could be a hitman. I don't think it's going that far. But having the cover of like, oh, we're just like a lovely couple here. And he's just like, I only have to tolerate you so much to get this job done. Yeah. You just need to be around me sometimes. Yeah. And she's like, well, I'm on this trip and I might as well have fun. And I have to deal with you.

[00:41:19] So I might as well try to make you a little better if I can. I mean... Because she's like, won some tantra tonight. And he has no response to that. Yeah. Which also implies that maybe it's happened in the past. So it's like... Yeah. There's something. Well, I mean, she says we've traveled all around. She names a few places. Mexico. And I forget where else. But she used to be a yoga instructor, which implies she doesn't need to work anymore. So it seems like he's got enough money to take her all around and they go places.

[00:41:48] But when you said Hitman, I was like, ooh, maybe that's exactly what's going on. I don't know. He seems a little too annoyed. Too, yeah. Too easily. If you were professional, you'd just be like, all right, I'm going to Bangkok next. Go to Bangkok, yeah. You're not going to be like... So I do think there's something emotional between him. Maybe every one of those other vacations they take and have been following this one guy. And this is like the eighth stop. And they're like, he's in Bangkok now.

[00:42:18] I'm never getting paid. I'm going to be all cheesy soap opera-y and be like that photo. He was looking through photos of the Hollingers. Jim Hollinger. The husband of... And I was like, oh, that guy's kind of skinny and thin as well. Mm. Yep. I don't know. My wife also wondered, could he be a son or something like that? Or some family issue. Who knows? Yeah. But yeah. But I don't think it's too weird, the relationship. Because it does...

[00:42:47] You know, when you're a pretty girl and an older guy of questionable funds agrees to fund your travels, you really don't ask. And you know this person doesn't love you. But you go along and it's a... And it can be fun. Yeah. Yeah. Especially if she's aware of the situation and she just makes the best of it. It's got its pluses and its minuses.

[00:43:12] And I really do hope that she brings some joy out of him. That would be really fun. I think this is a good spot, too, to mention. I mean, I really like the scene with her and this model, Chloe, just watching them quickly realize, oh my God, did we just become best friends? And it played out really well. And then the surprise reveal of Greg. And I just want to read, kind of like we read the plot summary, just to refresh people's memory.

[00:43:42] So here's a summary of Greg. Greg first appears in White Lotus Season 1 as a guest at the resort where he and Tanya hit it off. At first, Greg seems like a laid-back, outdoorsy guy who doesn't take himself too seriously, a contrast to the overly wealthy, neurotic people around him. He and Tanya quickly fall into a whirlwind romance. And by the end of the season, they're together. In Season 2, though, Greg's true colors start to show. So Greg's the only character so far that's been on all three. He's cold and distant with Tanya, clearly annoyed by her needy, over-the-top personality. And he's hiding something.

[00:44:12] Get ready for spoilers, by the way, if you haven't seen Season 2. Close your ears for a minute. It turns out Greg has been plotting against Tanya, working with a group of shady men, possibly as lovers, to get his hands on her fortune. And while Greg isn't on screen much in Season 2, his presence looms over Tanya's storyline, and it all builds up to her realizing that she's been being set up. And I think she died, and I think you would assume that he did get the money, right? And now he's been living in Thailand with his girlfriend in a hill above this hotel for a year.

[00:44:42] So is he just kicking back with his money? Yeah. Yeah. Because she doesn't strike me as also being an incredibly self-wealthy person that he's playing another con on. Right. So... He seems more like the kind of girl that you go for after you get the money. Right. Yeah. Well, she defines them as LBHs, the losers back home, the guys who move to Thailand, the bald white men and marry beautiful women. Yeah. So she refers to Greg as one of those.

[00:45:12] So... They're aware of it. Yeah. What I'm really curious about is whether or not Belinda's gonna see and recognize him. Because she had some interactions with him. Yeah. So... Yeah. I'm excited for that. And will Belinda know what happened to Tanya? That's a good question. Yeah. Yeah. So Tanya could get pulled back into this season a little bit. She might ask where is she... Yeah, her presence is there. Maybe we'll see a ghost. It's spirituality. Yeah.

[00:45:42] We might. Yeah. I think in the beginning of the show when I was starting to feel like, oh, these characters are just a little too weird and I wasn't quite getting into it. And then that scene in which Chelsea meets Chloe is a classic scene that anybody who's been sitting alone in a bar hopefully has gone through once in which you just hit it off at someone. Right. And suddenly you don't feel so alone. Yeah. And I just thought that was beautifully done. Mm-hmm. And it was...

[00:46:12] And it finally made the show seem a lot more approachable and relatable. Yeah. And especially when you're two cute women like that, you know... Oh, yeah. You start making fun of the guys. Yeah. Oh, no. Is that what you're doing? And you get approached like the other women we're talking about. You have to wonder if someone has an agenda or something.

[00:46:39] And also you just, you know, you might be a little shy and you just don't know the person at first. But they just quickly vibed in on, oh, yeah, we're the same kind of person and we can trust each other and have fun. Yeah. And it felt so real. It was great. You know, one of those British divers that rescued those kids. I mean, he's a white guy in Thailand. Elon Musk called him a pedophile. I know.

[00:47:09] Was he bald? That was one of their requirements. Well, he was in his 60s, so maybe. But the thing is, I mean, that Greg ended up in Thailand totally fits with... I mean, he was a BLM guy. So, and it sounds from... LBH. Oh, no, no. You mean Bureau of Land Management. Yeah, Bureau of Land Management. So, he's an outdoorsy type. He was a cowboy who met his gay friend. He was an LBH BLM, actually.

[00:47:37] So, you know he's this active, adventurous guy. Right? Who's been married, how many times did they say in the first one? Like, three or four times already? So, he's charming. Yeah. And then he gets annoyed and annoying, I'm sure, as time goes by. Yeah, because these two had just been in a fight. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And so, of course, he's going to get a mansion next to the four-star hotel in Thailand. Sure. Where you can go down to the bar and scope out the chicks. With a British model. Right, yeah.

[00:48:06] With a Canadian model. Yeah. And have a mini reminder of where some of his recent money has come from. Just happens to live up the hill from a white lotus. He's had good experiences with it so far. Right. All right. So, it's your turn, Mandy. Yes. Let's talk about the three bestest friends in the whole world. We have Jacqueline, who's a TV star, it seems.

[00:48:34] Kate and Lori, who are her two childhood friends. And I think, at least from my read, the way it's breaking down is Jacqueline wants them all to feel like equals again. Kate wants to be Jacqueline. And Lori doesn't feel like she belongs or is connected to either of them.

[00:48:57] And I think Jacqueline wants her, the reason it seems like she wants them to be equals is she paid for the trip. But her first, like, the first things you hear her saying to them really is, I want you guys to have, like, the rooms you want. She really wants them to be happy. She doesn't, she isn't saying, like, oh, I get the best room because I paid. She really wants them to pick it up. But she just keeps trying to emphasize the point that, like, oh, no, we're all still equals.

[00:49:25] Ever since we were younger, people have believed we were the same person. But on the flip side, the owner of the White Lotus is incredibly excited to meet her. She's not as excited to meet the other two. So there is a clear difference. And I did love how the owner spent extra time getting ready, putting on makeup, and had them take the boat around one more time so she could.

[00:49:52] And then she still didn't quite get the reaction she was hoping for. So she's putting in a lot of effort to impress Jacqueline. And I don't think she's getting it yet. So I'm curious if that will continue. But Kate, she says that Jacqueline's always been the face of the group. So when they did their skit when they were younger, Jacqueline was the head. I think she said she was the feet of whatever it was. And I don't remember if they said Lori was the arm.

[00:50:22] Yeah. Lori, I think, says she did the makeup. She did the arms, too. Yeah. She did the arms. She fed and she brushed the teeth of whoever the face of Jacqueline was. Yeah. So there's clearly, while Jacqueline's saying, yeah, when we were younger, we all got mixed up. Her side is a little bit like, well, we're all part of something. But you were the front one. And then she also talks about how she really wants people to know Jacqueline is her friend.

[00:50:51] And how she shares that with as many people as she can. So clearly, she looks up to Jacqueline. She thinks Jacqueline is like a, I don't know, not a goal. But like, I don't know how to describe that. Role model? Yeah. Or something like almost like a treasure she has in her house. Like, and then Lori is always mentioned last in all of their conversations. The three of them will be catching up. And half-heartedly, too. Yes. Yep.

[00:51:21] So, you know, we know that Jacqueline's doing TV and that Kate is part of a board and that she... Her husband does really well. Right. Her husband's... Yeah. And that people are always asking her for help. And when it comes to Lori, they just basically say like, oh, well, you work in the corporate world and you have a cool daughter. And they said, yeah, and you just have it so hard. That's basically what they said about her. Yeah.

[00:51:50] So she like so clearly is not meshing with the group and it's shown when she's off crying later. But it is an interesting dynamic between the three of them. There's clearly a hierarchy, even if Jacqueline is trying to deny that it exists. Yeah.

[00:52:08] And I didn't get the sense necessarily that the other one, Kate, was down on Lori as much as just didn't really think to notice her. Yeah. I think she's just the one that sort of gets left out of the group. Like Kate's so worried about Jacqueline and like having her approval and being like Jacqueline that Lori is just another person who's there. Yeah. I think the key phrase is they haven't seen each other in a while.

[00:52:38] I mean, these aren't people who stayed friends even as she became famous. It sounds like, oh, it's been a while and now we're getting back together. So because, you know, I remember thinking like this is a very weird girls trip away in which like you only talk about the good stuff and you don't commiserate over the bad stuff because, you know, you do both. You support each other as friends. And here they're kind of getting to know each other again. Yeah. And there's definitely more.

[00:53:07] I won't even say chemistry, but more whatever. It seems like Jacqueline or Kate are talking a lot more with each other and Lori is starting to feel. Yeah. Are feeling either excluded or unsupported. Feeling bad in comparison too. I think it's about an imbalance of success. And just, I think, I hate to even go here, but they were talking about looks, right?

[00:53:35] And how, oh, you look like you just came out of the womb and, oh, you look the same as you did 20 years ago. And then, and then Jacqueline looks over at Lori and goes, you both do. Like that. You know? And she doesn't look, I mean, I think Carrie Coons is a very good looking person, but these other two are just like supermodel, you know? Yep. They're all made up. Their hair's pulled and done. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I mean, Lori just has less makeup on, to be honest.

[00:54:04] As a woman, I look at them, I'm like, okay. But I think they were trying to play up the difference in their looks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know? You get the impression that maybe this has been the dynamic with Lori since they were kids too. And she's maybe also hoping like, maybe we've grown out of that. And I'm one of them now, but there might be a little bit more history to it. Right. Yeah. Yep. And they were very kind of talked around her daughter. I forget what they said exactly about her daughter.

[00:54:32] But I remember thinking like, oh, her daughter must be a fuck up. Yeah. They said, oh, she's starting to become a cool person or something like that. Right. And I was like, oh, she's probably having, you know. Also rough when the things your friends notice about you are the people around you and not like you. So rather than saying like, oh, you know, you're doing great things. They're like, you have another human who lives with you.

[00:54:59] And I wondered if there's anything to this where the one woman, Kate was saying, yeah, I have to always wonder if people who are interacting with me have an agenda and want something because, you know, they want a job or whatever. And then the look on Lori's face made me wonder, oh, is that why she's here? Does she want something? Yeah, maybe. Yep. That's a good guess.

[00:55:20] But I just want to mention quickly, because I think I want to get in more into the whole like Buddhist theme and spirituality of this series as we go along. But I didn't get a chance to look into it a lot. But here when they're talking about their looks and that they both say, oh, yeah, I've had a little work done. Not too much. Just the basics. But, you know, their image conscious, conscious, which I'm not judging. I think we all want to look good.

[00:55:46] But it's just a contrast to the selfless ideals of Buddhism and Eastern religion. And I read about this Buddhist concept called anatman, which translates to no self or non-self. And it suggests that the idea of a permanent, unchanging self is an illusion. And attachment to this idea is one of the causes of suffering. And I just thought that fit really well with trying to stay looking the same way, you know, even though you're aging. Yeah. Oh, that's. Yeah.

[00:56:13] I also noticed the way they talk to each other about aging was very still not close friends. I mean, to be honest, close friends are just like, oh, so what are you doing now? Yeah. Okay. Who do you recommend? Oh, really? Cool. And that's it. Right. None of this like, so I know you're not doing anything. You are. I mean, come on. Those are not close friends then. Maybe they'll get closer as the week goes along. But yeah, you're right. They're still trying to look good for each other.

[00:56:43] Yeah. All right. Let's talk about Belinda and her son, Zion. Yeah. How quickly did you guys realize it was her son? It took me a while. Yeah. I think not until the end. No, it took me until she said, my son is coming. Then you thought back. See, I'd already forgotten about the guy by then. I think it was on second watch, honestly. I'm like, oh. Oh, yeah.

[00:57:12] Oh, yeah. Okay. I got it when he said he's from Hawaii. And then I was like, wait, Belinda's from Hawaii. She had a son. And he's talking about his mom. Yep. His mom. So. Yeah. I get it.

[00:57:30] And I want to remind everyone.

[00:57:58] Just got fickle about it and changed her mind and wrecked this woman's world. And. Well, her dreams. Yeah. And now she's here. She says, I want to learn everything I can and bring the magic back to Maui. So apparently the white Lotus sent her here to learn stuff and bring it back and enhance the experience in Maui. She's as kind as ever here. But it's fun to see new colors of her character. Like she gets freaked out by the animals, the lizard.

[00:58:29] Every animal. And the monkey. I mean, she heard the tree shaking and she's like, what the fuck was that? So it's funny to see her like drop that, like, you know, calm facade. She doesn't have to anymore. Not today. I'm going to run back to Maui where we have killed off most of our wildlife. There's only turkeys. And then, yeah.

[00:58:52] So the guy at the beginning is her son, Zion, who was actually kind of in the first season of the White Lotus because she called him on the phone and told him about Tanya's offer. And she wasn't sure. And he's like, that fucking place exploits you, mom. If that lady jumps, you say how high. I'm serious. Work it. Get your own thing going. You deserve it. So he was supportive of it. But anyway, it was, it was, I love that first scene, the meditation.

[00:59:20] Like I was, I used to meditate and it was getting me all relaxed. And then the gunfire ruined it just like I did for them. But I thought my thoughts on him, gorgeous guy. It's hard not to see that. But we got the themes of death, Eastern religion and spirituality all happening within the first few minutes, you know, because it's the meditation is spirituality and religion. And then he saw what we assume is a corpse and then yelled at the Buddha.

[00:59:48] Don't let anything happen to my mom, motherfucker. That was so good. And so I think I'm really just recounting the plot here. Sorry. But what, what, what is interesting is I think we're supposed to think that Belinda's life is in danger. They did that typical white Lotus hook where you see a body. So you have to wonder whose it is the whole time. Right. And it cuts right to when he's saying, you know, don't let anything happen to my mom, motherfucker.

[01:00:16] Then we cut right to Belinda on the boat one week earlier. And then as the guide shows her around later, uh, he takes her to the shrine and says, Thai people believe that spirits are everywhere. So we give them offerings for good luck and protection. And then I don't know if I was reading it wrong, but she like brushed against a wreath and there was some ominous music. And she, so right before that, she was given a second, one of the bracelets that they had. Um, and she put it there as an offering.

[01:00:45] So I think she was asking for protection. And I don't know if that was just an emphasis to show like she's thinking about it or something like that. Okay. Cause it felt like ominous to me. I mean, yeah. Asking for protection could be like, maybe it doesn't work. But there was something as like tangential to that. The bracelets that they handed out at the beginning, only a couple people actually put them on and knew what they were. Belinda's one of them.

[01:01:15] Um, the father did it. And then, um, Rick, uh, also put one on, which, oh no, sorry. Chelsea, his partner put one on. So those are the only three that I saw that actually put it on. And then Belinda got a second one and she was able to use it as an offering. So you think everyone else is going to die? Maybe. It may be because there's seems to be gunfire happening at the end there. Yep. There, I counted two. I don't know why I started. There were 18 gunshots. Wow.

[01:01:45] So there could be a lot of dead people. Yeah. I mean, I still don't know whether it's a dead body or some, some predator species, but then again, I don't think there are any alligators or crocodiles in Thailand's waters. I'm pretty sure that was a corpse. I mean. Okay. So if it was a dead body, I don't think Zion would be leaping away from it if it was his mom. Hmm. Unless he just got scared and then he's going to come back. I don't think it's her.

[01:02:15] I, I, I, she says at some point, I have a feeling like something good's going to come out of this. And of course, you know, in a lot of shows that would be the death knell, but I don't know. I just feel like white Lotus isn't going to do her dirty like that. Yeah. It could be a very nice three season arch where we see her kind of at a low point. And then this ends with her finally feeling successful and happy and getting what she wants.

[01:02:41] Also, she gets to ride in a blimp and she gets to throw the first. She gets a lollipop. Yeah. All right. Who's next? Jenny. Oh, I just want to point out that, you know, Mike White is also a balding white guy. Spending time in Thailand. So I wonder how many times he was called that. And then he was like, I got to put that in this.

[01:03:11] So the next group of people are going to be the staff. They really don't cover the staff much in this episode. I mean, they're introduced. And I think Mook and Gaitak got the most screen time. So their story gets fleshed out a little bit more. But it's not much, right? All we know, pretty girl and the security guard who likes her. Right. Oh, and she has dreams. Like all pretty girls who work at resorts.

[01:03:40] So you remember when you said, when you were at the top, you were saying you want to show where every scene is engaging, basically. I'm paraphrasing, but right. Where you don't get bored. And I wonder with these two, did you feel that way? And if so, why? It started to get interesting near the end when she starts talking to the two security guards, right? And you can tell this is where the danger is coming in. She's talking to these two guys. They're the security guards for the hotel owners.

[01:04:09] She's saying, oh, I love how they get to travel. But, you know, we know the husband might be up to no good or something. There's something weird about the hotel owners. So there's, you know, we can see that something dangerous this way may come. It does seem like she might get drawn into something with them. And they, they're portrayed at least in this episode as being maybe a little bit rough and bad. Yeah. They have guns.

[01:04:38] So the title, same spirits, new forms, I think is such a good title for this episode because it's this anthology series about entitled cringy people. So we're getting, and it's spirituality this season. So it's like same, same type of people in different packages, but other similar kinds of people too, because I felt especially here, this guy's guy talk had a similar energy as Albie in season two.

[01:05:07] Nice guy, accommodating kind of puppy dog, but likable and good looking. And then Mook, who seemed attracted to the exciting bad boy, seemed like Portia, you know, from season two. Yep. I was more worried guy talk would be like the guy in season one that they got to steal the jewelry. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Kai? Kai, yeah. Kai, yeah. Ooh, guy talk, Kai.

[01:05:34] I was like, hopefully they're not going to reiterate that, you know, because we like more novelty here. Yeah. It does feel like you could almost one-to-one a lot of these characters with other ones, which gives me hope that different things are going to happen with each of them. So when we keep being like, these people might have a happy ending, I'm like, yeah, that might happen if we do something different. Yeah. But I don't think we're ever going to get another Armand, unfortunately. No!

[01:06:04] So we get Fabian, who's the general manager, but he is not as in command or as fun as Armand is. He seems... Not yet. At least, yeah, not yet. But because the owner is there, he seems like he's taking a step back and he's really trying to present her as this amazing asset to the location and really trying to buff up her ego. So he's not shining as much.

[01:06:33] So I'm hoping we get a little bit more from him. I mean, even Valentina in the second season had a lot of strength in her character, right? Yeah. Yeah. So Fabian is almost strongly sniveling, right? It's just like... It's a strong character, but it's almost like completely the other way. Yeah. The most spotless person you've ever met. So it'll be interesting to see how that turns out. Yeah.

[01:06:59] And then there's also the Pornshy, who is the person who's helping Belinda with her training or with her education. Oh, yeah. Seems really nice. And then, of course, the ripped Russian... Valentin. Valentin. Valentin. He's Russian. He's Russian. Did you find him sexy? Randy? Oh, yes. That was an attractive man. Jenny?

[01:07:27] He definitely was all decked out and go. I mean, he was presented by the hotel owner. It was like, practically, white slave, you know? Almost built a little red district. Jumped right out of a tree. Tarzan or something. I just want to say about Mook and Gaitok, the actors, I think they just did such a great job.

[01:07:55] Because with his lines, you might just feel like, oh, what a simp, you know? And I still do, but he also just seems like such a beautiful person. And the way that he said to her, even after she kept turning him around, I'm at your service, princess. Or I'm ever at your service. And then they kind of both giggled. It's like, ah, there's still this genuine connection between them, even though it's not what he wants. That's really interesting and human, you know? And I thought...

[01:08:22] I actually was pretty engaged with every time they were on screen, just because of that. I felt sorry for him, but... I mean, I almost feel like it's a cultural thing. Like, if you're Thai, you can be nice, and that's still cute and hot. But if you're, like, in America, and you're nice, you're not cute and hot. But she seems pretty American then, because she's like, your job's not exciting. You don't make enough money. These guys, he's like, they're arrogant, and she's drawn to that.

[01:08:51] So, that's typical. It does feel like they could still have a very good friendship, even if this doesn't... Like, this feels like it could fizzle out and become a really good friendship or something like that, so... It could just be one of those friendships where he's yearning for her for decades. But they do seem to have a genuine friendship, I think. Yeah. What about Sritala, Jenny, the owner?

[01:09:19] Well, she's definitely a strong personality, and I think you have to be to be a successful singer and actress. Yes. And now she's at the end of her, I would say career, but now she's on her second career, being a hotel owner. And she just has a strong personality. She's very diva-like, and it's almost kind of central casting diva right now. But, you know, she's had so few lines. We'll see.

[01:09:47] I'm hoping she will be very entertaining. I kind of wonder if she's going to be a charlatan health guru, because she has books, and she says she had... What'd she say she had? Autoimmune disease. And I wonder if they're going to play up that, because doesn't that kind of thing happen in Thailand sometimes? I don't know. Well, I mean, given the whole thing is about, as you said, wellness. Yeah, wellness. Spirituality.

[01:10:14] I mean, when you're going to say that she's going to be a crook, I mean... I do... My personal opinion is it's a very fine line. Well, I mean, yeah, I know what you're saying. But I think a lot of, you know, I think there is a lot to meditation for your heart, you know, and just different things that can help you. But with her, she's so interested in her own image, being willing to keep people waiting, cruising around the bay while she puts her makeup on.

[01:10:43] Actually, I hadn't considered that she wanted to impress that actress. But still, like, it's a bit narcissistic. And then talking up her books and everything. So when you have someone who's got this health stuff going on and they have products and stuff and it's about their own image, then I'm thinking charlatan. Yeah. It's a little Keith Raniere-y. Well, yeah. And I remember that first scene with Zion, right?

[01:11:10] And he's trying to meditate with his coach or whoever she is. And then he starts hearing gunshots. And he knows they're gunshots, right? Because he's from America. And she's like, what? What? You know, like the spirituality made her unable to survive in the world because she couldn't even recognize that. And it took her a long time to recognize what to do.

[01:11:35] I think maybe she also was in a deeper meditation because she knows how to meditate better. Yeah. Right. But you can consider that almost a criticism of meditation in the context of this show. Because, you know, this is Mike White. And he said, I'm going to address Eastern spirituality and death in this season. And so, you know, he's not going to just make it, you know. One thing is good and one thing is bad. Something is good. Yeah. He's going to point out all of the contradictions that you see in this. For sure.

[01:12:04] And I do find it interesting that he says, oh, this series is going to be, this season is going to be about death, right? And the first one's about money. The second one's about sex. And I'm like, what do you mean? Every single season has been about sex, money, and death. That's what makes it so great. A little more emphasis on the death. Yeah, yeah. Because season two is way more about sex than season one, for example.

[01:12:28] But, I mean, yeah, like when Saxon and Lachlan are alone and he starts knocking Buddhism, he says, Buddhism is for people that want to suppress in life. They're afraid. Don't get attached. Don't have desires. Don't even try. Just sit there in a lotus position with the thumb up your ass. He's like, it is good to want things, you know, as long as you can get them. And then the kid's like, well, what do I want? And he goes, pussy. Money, freedom, respect.

[01:12:58] And I think, you know, he's the extreme hedonist, like I said. And then there's the other side, extreme asceticism. But I was looking it up and Buddhism is about the middle ground. It's the emphasis on the middle way, which advocates for balance and avoiding extremes like indulgence or asceticism to achieve enlightenment. So maybe Lach is going to end up in the middle. Enlightened. And the siblings aren't going to. Yeah.

[01:13:28] Randy. Randy. So I'm not entirely sure what I want to title this category. I've been calling them red herrings, but they may just be more clues as to who's going to die. So Saxon is warned about the pong pong fruit. Yeah. Which I tried looking this up a little bit. The tree is nicknamed the suicide tree and the seeds are used to make fish poison.

[01:13:56] Um, so I'm wondering if the pong pong seed is going to be the murder weapon or potentially a suicide weapon. Um, Piper goes out exploring all by herself, which feels like a risky thing for a young, uh, tourist to be out doing by her doing. But she does come back for dinner, but I was worried about her there.

[01:14:25] Um, the bodyguards, they have guns on them. So we're shown the guns. We know there's gunfire later. Um, Chelsea says to Rick, she's going to get to the root of Rick's issues, even if it kills her. Um, this one's not really there, but I think if the son Saxon just turned out to be a serial killer, that'd be quite a twist for the show.

[01:14:51] He seems very predatory when he's in the pool and then he sees Chelsea come and he's suddenly like locked on and he's like, I'm getting out of the pool and I'm going to her. So it'd be, it'd be a twist for Mike White to be like, oh, it's actually not a relationship that caused this. It's, uh, this kid's just a serial killer. And then, um, Rick, Walter Goggins character.

[01:15:14] He just seems like he wants to kill everyone, but he's clearly there for the husband of the owner. So I think those are some of the, the clues laid out currently about who could, uh, who could die and who might do the killing. And you're right. They're either foreshadowing or red herrings. Yep. I mean, that pong pong tree is definitely a loaded gun. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Let's got it.

[01:15:44] Okay. Why don't we, um, do Randy's point and then we'll go into notes. Sounds good. So the opening artwork during the credits, there is a lot happening in this one comparatively to the other seasons. I feel like even especially season two, it was pretty light. So for this, I only looked at the slides or the backgrounds where there was a character's or an actor's name.

[01:16:13] Cause there were so many. Um, so to begin with, we have Leslie Bibb who is Kate and her image is three elephants and two of them are sort of looking down at one, which seems to express their dynamic of the three women there. Lori, who Carrie Coon, it's a man and a woman.

[01:16:36] They're sort of like bird creatures and they're watching as an elephant is surrounded by what looks like dog creatures. So I don't know if that's her real being surrounded by negative energy or just something potentially dangerous. And nobody's there to help her. Uh, Walter Goggins, rich Rick hatchet, which also, I like that name walking dead related Rick. And he always has a hatchet. So that name works for me.

[01:17:07] Uh, it just shows a man smoking alone in a tower. And so far we've seen his character smoking a couple of times. Um, Sarah Catherine hook who plays Piper. It shows a person in the hills praying or meditating, which seems to be her goal at the moment. Uh, Timothy Ratcliffe, the dad, uh, person in a, this one's a little crazy.

[01:17:32] Actually, it's a person in a prickly looking tree and there are knives hanging off of the branches and it looks like there's birds flying at the guy in the tree. I feel like basic understanding that guy's in danger.

[01:17:48] I don't, I kind of want to go and, yeah, I kind of want to go and look into some of this type of artwork and see if there's any like, uh, general symbolism for like knives and trees or the, the human animal hybrids to see if there's some more to it. High myths or something. Yeah. Yeah. Um, Mook, there's a woman and a man hidden away and the woman is holding an umbrella or a parasail.

[01:18:15] Uh, Jacqueline shows a topless woman out on a balcony and it might be just the style of the drawing, but it almost looked like she was wearing a mask similar to the, the performance they're watching during dinner where it's the woman dancing and she has like a white mask on, but it could have just been the way it was drawn. So it's possible she's hiding a part of herself while also being this bright beacon of sexuality.

[01:18:44] Um, Lachlan, it shows a man floating in the water or under the water, much like we saw at the beginning of the episode. So I doubt they're going to fully, uh, show us that in the opening, but that'd be interesting if they were just like, yeah, it was him. Um, oh yeah.

[01:19:03] Cause I feel like that could sort of be about duality with him because he's kind of in the middle or it could be a corpse. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Could be a corpse. It could be that he's just drowning and something metaphorical or man. Now you got like, there's some that I really don't want to die and he's one of them. Yep. So I hope it's not. Now we're worried. Yeah.

[01:19:30] Um, the owner, uh, it shows a woman on the edge of the water, holding a bird with a human's head in her hand. I don't have any thing for that one. Parker Posey, uh, Victoria, the mom, uh, shows two monkeys smoking something from a long pipe, which I brought up earlier. But Linda, it shows a swan looking at their own reflection in the water, but just down the stream as a crocodile.

[01:19:59] So danger could be coming. She might be too distracted with thinking about herself and not looking at the environment around her. And she's so worried about the creatures. Yeah. Yep. So yeah. Yeah. Yep. Maybe rightly so. Fair. Uh, Saxon, it shows two men sneaking from behind trees toward two very distressed, topless women. One of the men looks very happy and the other looks sad.

[01:20:25] So I kind of feel like it's him dragging his brother along to do what he likes to do. Scam. Uh, three more here. Guytalk, the security guard, it shows a man in a pit with a tiger and it looks like he's fighting the tiger and there's just a goat watching. So he may be heading into the tiger pit at some point.

[01:20:45] Uh, Chelsea, uh, the British girlfriend shows a tiger standing over a kill as what looks like foxes or some other little animals are chasing after as well. And then the other one that stood out to me was that the casting by Meredith Tucker shows a large group of monkeys being assembled and somebody, one of the monkeys is pointing to. So I feel like that was more of a meta thing of Meredith being like, let me gather all of these monkeys and get them to go somewhere.

[01:21:16] Put on a show. Yep. And then most of the imagery towards the end of it is actually lots of images of nature attacking people in some way or another, either like water or fish eating people. So I think that's obviously going to play into this as well. I feel like this is going to be a darker season. Yeah. Yeah. Possibly. I see. That was good. And that's one of my points. It is a darker season. Like literally there's a lot less sunlight and sky.

[01:21:46] I feel like in Maui and in Sicily, right? They were kind of on a cliff. You saw a lot of sky in here. Yeah. A lot of, you know, a lot of these places are within a jungle. Yeah. A lot of their apartments or rooms, villas are separated from each other. So it's just a different feel. It feels to me a bit more claustrophobic. Yeah. Because they're on an island too. They're remote. I mean, Hawaii is an island, but it just feels more remote, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay.

[01:22:16] I just had two notes. One is that as with all the other episodes of this show, every episode of this season was written and directed by Mike White. Oh, wow. He's the auteur. And I think it's, it's so unusual to look down a list in Wikipedia and see written by and directed by and it's just the same name in every square. But especially for such a big production, like a big HBO show. Yeah. He's yeah, he's good.

[01:22:42] And last is that Steve Zahn, who played Mark Mossbacher, the dad slash husband in season one, had a big part in the Apple TV plus sci-fi dystopian show Silo season two this season. He was really good in it too. You only heard his voice for the first, um, his first episode. So I didn't know who it was, but I was like, that sounds like a really interesting voice. And then when he stepped out and it was him, I was like, yeah, Mark Mossbacher.

[01:23:14] That's great. Um, I have a couple here. The first one is that we saw a wiener already. Mike White likes to have a wiener in his seasons. You just need to turn and we'll be complete. Yep. Did I miss it? What was it? Yep. Saxon. Yeah. When Saxon went to masturbate in front of his brother. 26 minutes, 33 seconds. No, I'm just kidding. Oh, I just saw the plot. I didn't know they showed the wiener too. Did it look real? It was in the mirror.

[01:23:44] Eh, it might've been. It wasn't all of it. That we're aware of. Maybe that was all of it. I mean. Yeah, the actor's like, hey. He's done such a good job at playing that guy to be a total asshole, I don't care. I did like that. Almost, I think it's like the second shot is of an actual white lotus in the water. So you can roll credits after you've seen that.

[01:24:10] Um, the music that Saxon is swinging, swimming to in the pool. I think it's a tie cover of Iron Man by, um, oh no. Blacksup? Mm-hmm. No. Yeah. That's what I thought, but I don't know. Yeah. That's what it sounded like. I haven't double checked that. Um, and then another thing we noticed was that, uh, Jacqueline is wearing the happy and sad theater face earrings when she's hanging out with her two friends.

[01:24:40] So she's clearly always still got that on her mind. And then I'm just curious if the white lotus brand is going to be tarnished by all of these murders. I don't know if every one of your, your hotels can have somebody murdered at it and that not affect your revenue at some point. I mean, Motel 6 seems to do fine. Well, that's, that's because they're sold on. That's where you go to murder. Okay. Yeah. That's part of the brand. Yeah.

[01:25:10] Jenny, do you have any more things you want to mention? Oh, I, I think Randy, you should check the, um, opening credits next week. Cause I'm sure they'll mark John Grease now. They weren't gonna, you know, yeah. Yep. Yeah. It'll be cool to see who they add. Uh, Parker Posey is one of my favorite actresses, but I have to say she is literally sleepwalking through this role right now. And I think that's cause that's her character, but we'll see if, if she perks up a bit.

[01:25:38] I very much identified with her because, and I don't know if the point was that she just resists. She's resisting being there. She wants to be home where it's comfortable. And so she's even resisting, um, acclimating to the time difference. I think that might be it. Right. But man, I do that. I have such a hard time getting on schedule when I go somewhere where the time differences is many hours different. And I end up asleep when everyone else is awake and awake when everyone else is asleep for like the first week. Yeah.

[01:26:10] So give her a week. Yeah. Give her a week. Anything else? Um, I wrote clothes. Now I'm like, what was I going to say about the clothes? But anyways, I hear that the white Lotus is very, um, people do analyze the clothes warned by the people there, especially, you know, I think in season two, the blonde girl, everyone was like, what kind of clothes are those? Um, Portia. Yeah. So right now. I liked them. Yeah.

[01:26:37] I mean, they stood out, you know, everything was a little different, which is always. Quickie. Uh, good for one's attention span. Um, but I, I thought Piper's clothes were in the beginning, very weird because she was wearing what I thought looked like modest clothes that you see in some of those religious cults in the U.S. Right. And then, and then I was like, is this me being old and not realizing this is like maybe a Generation Z thing to do? No, that's her character.

[01:27:05] Like I said, the two extremes, right? She's the ascetic and her brother's the hedonist. Right. But okay. Okay. You'll set to keep your eye out the next time you're out and see if any youths are wearing those outfits. Okay. Then you'll know. I have not seen any. She's an aspiring Buddhist. Well, you're not allowed to be a Buddhist nun in Thailand.

[01:27:31] But not a nun, just someone who is spare, has a spare life. Okay. And then when she showed up at the temple and then she didn't want to talk to anyone there. I don't know. The character is very, very odd to me right now. So I'm looking forward to getting that fleshed out. But yeah, her clothes are different from everybody else's clothes, which are very stylish and glittery and bright and vacation-y.

[01:27:58] So you're saying she's an aspiring Buddhist, not an aspiring evangelical Christian? No, I think, I mean, she says she's there to do her thesis about Buddhism, right? And she went to the temple to interview the monk, but she was like, I'm not ready. And so I feel like it's a big step for her. So I think it's not just to interview them. I think she wants to become a Buddhist and she may just stay there forever. And her brother is just total carnal, shallow hedonist.

[01:28:27] So I think it's a battle for Lachlan in the middle to try to bring him to one side or the other. Gotta find that Buddhist orgy temple and then the whole family can finally come together. Okay. But as I said, you cannot- You can't be a monk. Or a nun in Thailand. Oh, okay. Well, I don't know. I just think it's something along those lines, but we'll see. Okay.

[01:29:50] We're back. It's time for some guest feedback. Let's get into it. Jenny, want to read the first one? So from Jodi Langridge. So excited the show is back on. It's so well done and you never know where the storyline is going to take us. The soundtrack as always is great and the location is gorgeous. Most disliked character, Saxon. As soon as he stated that this place is clutch, he was straight on my list of douchebags and

[01:30:18] he continued to wear that crown for the whole episode. He is just the worst. Fave character has to be Chelsea. I just loved her. She also had the best line of the episode when she declared to Rick that this is so on brand for you to be a victim of your own decisions. That was a good line. I love that. Made me laugh out loud. It was perfect. Side note. Amy Lee Wood, Chelsea, has also starred in Daddy Issues with David Morrissey for those The Walking Dead fans.

[01:30:46] And I'm sure Lucy mentioned watching this on a podcast a little while ago. It was a good introduction episode for the characters, but not sure how much more I can take of two of the three best friends blowing smoke up each other's butts. It made my skin crawl and felt so fake. In my experience, that's not how you talk to your real best friends. I can only imagine they would be at each other's throats before too long. Looking forward to how that plays out. So can't wait to hear the pod and everyone's thoughts. Two monkeys. Two monkey emojis.

[01:31:16] Yeah. When I first, I mean, honestly, I didn't feel exactly the same way as you, Jody. When they were saying, oh, you know what? I love you guys and I missed you so much and whatever. I thought that's some good vibes happening there, but they're probably going to hate each other by the end of this. Inevitably. That's what I thought. Nathan Eshelman writes in, welcome back. Thank you. Rumor has it Randy is coming to us live from Thailand. Stay away from those deadly fruits, Randy. I'm trying. I'm sticking to two a day.

[01:31:47] In this episode, Chelsea said she wanted to go to Australia, so maybe that would be a great location for a future season, and they can bring her back. Interesting. I wonder what she sees in Rick. He's such a stick in the mud. Speaking of sticks in the mud, it's Uncle Rico. What are you doing here, Greg? Greg will be interesting to see how he interacts with Belinda this season. My early prediction on Kate, Lori, and Jacqueline is that their flattery for each other is teetering

[01:32:15] on the edge of being backhanded compliments, so this will eventually lead to infighting. It feels like Lori's emotions are a mix of jealousy and annoyance at her friend's constant humble bragging. It's good to see Carrie Coon again. She was stellar on another HBO show, The Leftovers. Agree. I kind of wonder, too, if she just seems like maybe she has some big problems back home. It's not just jealousy, but something worse. But who knows? She needs help solving a big problem. Yeah.

[01:32:45] I wonder if Lachlan will be this season's Albie. He arrives with his family, but maybe throughout the week he'll branch out and get the opportunity to find himself. The less time he spends with his brother, the better. The Ratliff's sibling dynamic feels really weird and uncomfortable. Agreed. Agreed, Nathan. Yeah, it is weird. I'm so excited to see Parker Posey this season. She's one of my favorite actors ever.

[01:33:09] Podcastica viewers last saw her in the Groundhog Day-style episode of Tales of the Walking Dead. I'm glad you brought that up, because that was good and she was great in it. Yeah, that was a great episode. Much like Victoria, I also like taking naps during the day and ignoring my phone. I had IMDB pulled up for this first episode, so I hope I got all the names right. As far as we know, you did. Yeah, I think you did. Yeah, you got it. Awesome.

[01:33:47] All right. That is our show. Cop, Coon, Crop, everyone. Next up, The White Lotus Season 3, Episode 2, Special Treatments. If you want to write in or send us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com. And while you're there, be sure to check out our other shows. Yeah, and do do that. We love to hear from you. We'd love to get some voice messages about your thoughts or more, you know, just regular messages.

[01:34:14] We need a special email address for White Lotus. What should it be? How about Sawatika? No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, something easy to spell. Just write to Whitelotus at podcastica.com and we'll get it. Or, you know, if you go on our Facebook group, just go to Facebook, search for podcastica, join our Facebook group. We put up posts every week for each episode. If you comment on there, we'll also read it on the podcast and then you'll get to interact

[01:34:42] with us about all the other shows we do, which like Randy said, if you go to podcastica.com, we just, you know, Yellow Jackets just started season three. We have our podcast Yellow Jackets WTF for that. It's been really fun, even just the first two episodes so far. And since we last podcasted on White Lotus back almost two years ago now, Randy started a zombie improv podcast called Welcome to the Apocalypse. Yes. Yeah.

[01:35:12] What's that like? If you're into dark humor, like in the White Lotus, you might be into this show. It's three of us in the zombie apocalypse and it's a story podcast, but the trick is we're improvising each episode. And we have guests on like Jason and whatever they say becomes canon in our reality. So it's a wild, fun ride.

[01:35:39] And then we add music and sound effects and it's, yeah, very, I, you know, not to toot my own horn here, but I think it's a pretty fun and entertaining podcast. Yeah, it's really fun. Yeah. Check it out. Podcast2go.com. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening.