20: "The Mother of Exiles" (S3E4)

[00:00:00] The other pearls. I assumed you brought someone else. You've just made copies of yourself. If you want something done right, do it yourself. This week we're covering Westworld Season 3 Episode 4 The Mother of Exiles. Yeah, Episode 4. We're already halfway done.

[00:00:56] Which is not really cause to be happy, I guess. I know, but it's crazy. But yeah, it's gone by quick and 8 episodes is not a lot really. I know. If they did any less, I would really feel like we were being shortchanged. Oh, Game of Thrones!

[00:01:15] Yeah, I do have to say we've been watching some, you know, now that there's so much stuff on Netflix. We've been watching a number of these limited series, which are like three or four episodes.

[00:01:27] The BBC does a lot of those. We really like it actually. That's like a good size. Yeah. Well, like what? What's an example of something you watched? Well, I've watched, for example, All of Luther, which is all like three and four episodes seasons.

[00:01:44] There's been like five or six of them. We've been watching a documentary called The Investigator, which is like a British cold case thing. And one season was four episodes and one was three. So I love like for a show we really like that's intricate like Westworld.

[00:01:58] I like it being a little longer, but those sort of bite-sized mini series are fun. Yeah. Yeah, just you feel like like not to get too off track, but even with like I'm a pretty big

[00:02:09] video gamer and I appreciate a shorter game because longer games just seem so overwhelming, but a shorter one I could dive into and experience it and be done with it and feel satisfied. Yeah, you can kind of digest it. And it's not too big of a time commitment.

[00:02:24] Yeah. Well, let's get into this week's time commitment. Here's our top five highlights for Westworld season three episode four, The Mother of Exiles. What did you think of this episode? I enjoyed it. I was pretty much where I have been this whole season. So I definitely enjoyed the

[00:02:42] episode. I still love the show. I think the style of the show has changed substantially. It's not as tight as it was in season one and two and certainly in season one. I think they're going more for action. They're resolving the questions that come up more quickly

[00:03:02] and sort of going for big splashy storylines. So I'm not sure if I love that quite as much, but it's still really a lot of fun. Yeah, I actually like this week's episode

[00:03:13] more than I did last week. It just felt, it felt last week, I kind of knew that Dolores was going to convince Caleb to join her cause and I kind of knew why he would do that. So

[00:03:28] it felt a little paint my numbers. It was still good, but this week it just felt really fresh. Like there were some twists and turns and it was interesting. So I really liked it actually.

[00:03:37] Yeah, I agree. Okay, which number five? Okay. So my number five is the obvious, which is a multitude of Dolores. I hear on set they call them Dolorei. That's excellent. Yeah, it's funny. Okay, I'm going to digress for a moment, but

[00:03:58] Karen has a cousin, Ellen, who's super sweet and lives down in LA, but she's a classics professor, like with a specialty in Latin. So her personality is everything you would expect for that. She's

[00:04:12] classic, brilliant sort of absent minded professor. And she went off on a, and they have a Prius as we now do. And she went off on a 10 minute tangent one night about how people assume that the plural

[00:04:26] of Prius would be Prii, but it's actually Piora for some reason at the time. We were like, wow, that's really deep. You never know with those. Anyway, Dolorei. So sort of a, I thought a fun and

[00:04:46] kind of chilling resolution to the whole mystery post since the season two finale who are the other five pearls. And I actually kind of thought, actually the first thing I thought was how bad

[00:04:58] was our speculation last week? Were we anywhere near? And I think we did bring up the possibility that it could be Dolores. It was just the Charlotte character at that point. I mean, as we said, there were reasons for some of the things that we postulated, but also

[00:05:15] reasons against. And my reason against was that I would think that she would say, oh, how come I'm, you're over there and I'm here or just like, why am I looking at myself?

[00:05:27] But, you know, it's just a little bit of a cheat maybe to keep the secret from us. And that's totally fine. Yes. And I also kind of thought after they revealed it, it's like, wow, that was really obvious.

[00:05:41] Like how did we not know? Yeah, there were a lot of clues looking back. I don't I to to enlarge on what you were just saying. It doesn't really answer for me why the Charlotte version of

[00:05:56] Dolores was so freaked out to be in a Charlotte body. I mean, Dolores was already in a Charlotte body in the park and it didn't seem to bother her. And in this episode, it didn't seem to bother any

[00:06:09] of the other Dolores. So I think that's a was a little weird and unexplained. Well, yeah, here's my speculation. My speculative explanation of that is with Charlotte that we saw last

[00:06:24] week wake up. That was the only one, the only copy that we saw wake up. So perhaps these like Musashi Dolores or maybe Satoh Dolores and what's the other guy's name? Milton or I forgot his name.

[00:06:39] The enforcer Martin. Yeah, Martin Connells. Yeah. Maybe those two had the same kind of disorientation when they first woke up but we just never witnessed it. I mean, maybe. But the shell, or as they seem to want us to call her now,

[00:06:58] she really seemed to have some emotional problems around it, like she was hurting herself and doing all that. So yeah, a little unclear. Yeah. So I guess it's been answered that Dolores has the

[00:07:10] ability to copy herself and make new pearls. Yeah, we were what you're using. We were wondering about that last week, although I don't think she has the ability to make the pearls outside of Delos.

[00:07:22] I think. Yes. And that was one thing not totally answered but I think we can assume that she was able to make them because she had access to all the tech in the park. And that's so far she

[00:07:34] doesn't have access to do that now, although if they take over Delos successfully, they probably will. Right. I was a little disappointed in a way, I have to say, because a little bit of what kind

[00:07:48] of world is she creating? Now, she gave lip service to, hey, once I conquer the world, maybe there'll be room for other hosts. But it just seems a little boring like the whole world is just

[00:08:01] going to be a bunch of copies of yourself. And on the other hand, it seemed really human, or like an animal, like it's our drive to replicate our genes. So that's kind of what

[00:08:15] she's doing. But I was sort of bummed that some of our other favorite characters are not represented as we sort of hope they would be. Yeah, I mean, to me, it was really ominous.

[00:08:25] It was kind of almost sinister. It had a super villainy vibe to it. And like Maeve said, I thought you would bring other people in but it seems like you just want the world for

[00:08:35] yourself. And she's or he satos said something like this, what we need to do isn't going to be easy, but there'll be a place for people, you know, after we succeed and something about if you want

[00:08:49] something right, do it yourself, which sort of makes sense. I mean, she's the only one that she can really trust for sure. But still, it felt ominous to me, which I actually kind of

[00:09:00] liked, like maybe kind of like the same feeling you get when Frodo starts getting tempted by the ring to go to the dark side. Just that maybe Dolores might decide, you know what, I'd rather just have a world filled with me's or something.

[00:09:16] Yeah. And the other Dolores seem to be clearly under her command. Yeah, she's Dolores prime. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, she's dominant. Yeah, even last week when Dolores Charlotte was very anxious and they curled up in the fetal position, you know, spooning each other, but Dolores prime had

[00:09:41] the dominant position and I think that might tie into the title, the mother of exiles, like she's the mother of all these other Dolores's. Yeah, agreed. So it's clearly war and Dolores has an army of herself.

[00:09:57] I think she's a little bit of a one note character at this point. It is my hope that her character maybe gets a little more complex again at some point. Yeah, I mean, there's this comic book character I really like called Multiple Man.

[00:10:11] And one particular series written by one of my favorite comic writers, Peter David. It's a comic called X Factor. There was this mutant detective agency and multiple man, aka Jamie Madrux was the leader. And his power is if he can create multiples of himself.

[00:10:29] And he usually used to only do that to fight somebody. Then when he was done, he could absorb them back into himself. But Peter David did some really interesting things where he multiple man would send out his duplicates to on missions.

[00:10:42] And they would have experiences that would change them. And so that when he absorbed them back into himself, he would get all of that knowledge and experience and he would feel

[00:10:51] differently. But one of them decided he didn't want to come back and he went and became a pastor and married somebody and had a whole life and just kind of hid out. And so it makes me

[00:11:03] think that maybe some of the Dolores will start to differentiate like that. And I think maybe we even saw that with Charlotte Dolores last week where she started having that mothering instinct for her son that might have differentiated her from the other Dolorei.

[00:11:22] Could be. And yeah, we'll see what develops and there's still a couple more out there, right? She still has a couple left. I think at this point, there's only one left. I've actually had five besides herself and I think we've only seen three.

[00:11:42] I think one of those five was Bernard, though. I'm pretty sure. Okay, we'll have to go back and check. I thought it was five plus Bernard, but you might be right. I think yeah, I'm pretty sure. I mean, you're right, we should check. But

[00:11:55] I'm pretty sure it's five with including Bernard. So we have Bernard is one, Charlotte is two, Martin is three, Musashi Slash Sato is four. And we'll talk about William, I'm sure. But just one main thing I want to say about him is this felt like potentially a final

[00:12:17] episode in his story arc. It felt like an ending for him. But then I wondered it because we saw, I think we saw Charlotte Dolores take a drop of blood from him. So that made me wonder if,

[00:12:31] well actually that wouldn't, but anyways, I was sort of wondering if they might make a host out of him and put Dolores in there. Yeah, that's possible. Maybe. I don't know. Okay. So my number,

[00:12:43] let's, my number five was also that. And we talked about a lot of what I was going to say. But I just, a couple of extra things. How does Dolores being in all of them check out with what

[00:12:55] we've seen so far? And she said, like you said, it should have been obvious. She said things last week, like, you're not alone, you have me, no one knows you like I do. No one knows me like you.

[00:13:09] And Charlotte said, if I ever lost you, I don't know what I'd do. Dolores says, you belong to me. You know that, right? Well, I guess that suggests that she's the dominant one.

[00:13:19] Right. And then at the end when she was choking that pedophile in the park, she said, you reminded me of something the harder I squeeze the more I remember what it's like to be me. You're not the only predator here that goes along. Yeah. And we talked about

[00:13:33] that being sort of the Wyatt personality. Yeah. And just what we've seen of Dolores more recently, I mean, she's the terminator right now. Pretty much. I really liked the juxtaposition of all the Dolores is revealing themselves, you know, William,

[00:13:52] Charlotte and William were together and he said, who the fuck are you? And she said, I'm your oldest friend. And then Martin Connell's told Bernard after all the time we spent together, you don't recognize your only friend. And then we switch over to Sato

[00:14:06] and Maeve figured that out on her own. She said, the other pearls I assumed you brought someone else you've just made copies of yourself. And he goes if you want something done, do it right

[00:14:15] yourself. That was just kind of a fun little sequence. Yes. And as you pointed out, it's kind of super villainy. Yeah. Yourself. Yeah. It's maybe not the best thing strategically, but it was sort of like, haha. Yeah. Well, I was at I was asking myself,

[00:14:33] why would she reveal that to William? But it turns out, I think she was just trying to get him to freak out so that she could drive home the point to those people from the mental hospital

[00:14:45] that he was crazy. So it sort of made sense with Sato Maeve figured it out without him saying anything with Bernard. I'm not so sure why Martin revealed it. He told him to get in the car

[00:15:03] so we don't know what he has in store for Bernard. But that was the only question that I feel like isn't doesn't really have an answer yet. Yeah, that's fair. Um, what else? I guess that's all I had to

[00:15:18] say about that. Yeah. So what's your number four? So my number four and I know I'm not the only person to think of this and we brought it up, I think in passing last week. But

[00:15:29] to me, the mother of exiles is really similar to the mother of dragons. Yeah. And with apologies for anyone who's not a Game of Thrones fan, although I think there's a lot of crossover, I'm going to go

[00:15:40] into a little Game of Thrones here. So right, stylish powerhouse blondes, more formidable, I would say than either of their at least initial appearance suggests. Although maybe although maybe Dolores looks pretty formidable at this point with her power clothes, but

[00:16:00] they both have magic at their disposal. Daenerys sort of has the dragon fire magic of the Targaryens. Dolores has a technical wizardry she has gotten possession of at her fingertips to manipulate the physical world and the electronic world. The biggest similarity is they're both out to

[00:16:20] take revenge on the world and break the world, break the wheel. They were both were abused when they were powerless. And now their time has come. So these are both rulers who demand absolute control, absolute loyalty from anyone who is subordinate to their cause. Think of Varys in

[00:16:44] Game of Thrones or Teddy in Westworld. There's no room for dissent. It is their way or the highway and the highway is no way. And they may, I don't want to give away Game of Thrones, but

[00:16:59] they may have the same ending in mind. Well, they may. I mean, things didn't end well with Daenerys, but she was very destructive. And that's at least what we're seeing in here. And they both started out really wide-eyed and timid and became very fierce and vengeful.

[00:17:19] Yeah. Now I would say at this point, Dolores has become less interesting than Daenerys. She really doesn't have any inner conflict at this point, not a lot of empathy. She's kind of a

[00:17:31] one note orchestra at this point, but that doesn't mean that that may not go back the other way, depending on events that happen. I guess I would agree with that. I wouldn't say she's uninteresting, but I would say she's less interesting than Daenerys.

[00:17:48] Yeah. I mean, Daenerys has a real complex emotional journey that continues on at least longer, I think. Absolutely. And just a note about the title, Mother of Exiles is another name for the

[00:18:01] Statue of Liberty from the famous Emma Lazarus poem that the famous line of the poem is, Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. So you can see

[00:18:13] Dolores as a statue of liberty for the hosts in the similar way that Daenerys is the breaker of chains for the slaves. Yeah, except in this case, she's like, give me your tired,

[00:18:27] your poor, your huddled masses who are all copies of myself. That is true. But hopefully the end, I mean, she does say this is all, she suggests that this is just for now, but then we're going to

[00:18:40] bring back all our host friends to live in this new utopia. That's similar to the Coliseas well. Yeah. Her whole thing is like, hey, once I win the war, it's going to be great for the small

[00:18:53] folk. All right, anything else on that one? That's it. Okay. Now this one is some speculation. And so I hope you guys will forgive me for this. I'm not sure how much podcast listeners want to

[00:19:08] hear speculation, but it's something that I came to on my own. And then I saw that there's a lot of speculation out there on this. So I figured it's fair game since I came to it just

[00:19:20] based on what I've gathered from the episodes so far. And that is, you know, I've been taking it for granted that the show has been simplified this year and the show runners decided to make things more straightforward. But the more I think about

[00:19:34] it, the more I think maybe some of the events that we've been watching might be happening in a simulation kind of like where Maeve was in War World. I don't know about that for sure.

[00:19:47] But we could have been wrong to too quickly dismiss the idea of that kind of trickiness like they used to do with the timelines. And what makes me think that is a few little hints and things.

[00:19:59] In the first episode when Dolores had quick changed into her evening gown to meet her then boyfriend Liam at this Orge Bank or whatever it was, and his friend Roderick kind of offhand

[00:20:12] at least said that we're living in a simulation. And I even commented about that then because I was saying Elon Musk has said similar. But maybe that was sort of a wink and a nod to the truth.

[00:20:25] In the second episode Maeve was in the simulated version of War Worlds. And so, you know, that was just sort of bringing up that this is a thing. But that was felt more

[00:20:36] like what we've already seen with the cradle and the forge and all that. But then last week when Caleb asked Dolores how do you know everything about this memory of my mom at this diner? And she

[00:20:48] said quote, a machine they call Rahoboam the founders of this machine fed it everyone's raw data long before there were privacy laws. Every purchase job search doctor visit romantic choice call text every aspect of your lives recorded logged in order to create a mirror

[00:21:04] world of this world why to make a composite of you of everyone. And I just thought that that phrase mirror world was interesting because it makes it seem like Rahoboam isn't just a bunch

[00:21:17] of code and calculations but rather a similar virtual world like the ones that we've seen before with a cop that's a copy of ours. And Sirac who created or co created Rahoboam keeps saying that he's Oh, I predicted that I predicted everything. And when we saw Maeve in

[00:21:35] that simulated war world, they made a point to show that it runs faster than the real world or when she was looking out at the real world, it was running in slow motion. So maybe Sirac can

[00:21:45] he has this mirror world that he can run out past where we are now and check what's probably going to happen in the future. Like when he had this guy tied up in this episode,

[00:21:55] the identity man, he said, I know you, I've seen your whole life play out. So it's like he's watching a simulated world play in fast motion that's predicting the future. And then, you know, when those graphics say divergence, maybe that's when something significant in the real world

[00:22:12] diverges from whatever he's seen in this simulated world. Like he said, Bernard's house was the side of a divergence, which I assume means when Dolores arrived and started creating hosts is probably a divergence. I don't know. But other things that make me think maybe something

[00:22:30] that some things that we're actually seeing might be in that virtual Rehoboim world is little inconsistencies like we saw last week, Charlotte recording this message to her son, Nathan when Westworld was being attacked. But we saw that twice and

[00:22:48] it was like two versions of the same message. One was longer and had some of the same stuff, but some different stuff. And that could just be some dramatic editing, but on this show details

[00:22:58] often matter. So I wonder if that had to do with like one of these was the virtual version that was missing some data. And the other one had all the data because it was the real one, you know,

[00:23:07] I didn't go back and look, but then there was this quick scene, maybe I misunderstood this, but at the beginning of this episode with Dolores and Bernard and Dolores says, this is your house so that your two worlds would be within reach. It's finished. And

[00:23:20] Bernard says, I didn't finish it. This isn't real. That seemed like maybe that was a sign that there was some simulated thing going on there where the house was finished. And then and I could be

[00:23:34] misreading this too, but Sirach and Maeve in this episode they're at that fancy restaurant where looked amazing in Singapore. And he says bring yourself back online and she wakes up. And I'm thinking I had the same thought that I had when she was in war world like

[00:23:48] she just seemed to pop into existence there. But how did she get there in the first place? And it makes more sense that she would, if it was a simulation, then she would

[00:24:01] could wake up in the middle of a restaurant. But if it wasn't a simulation, did he just like kind of carry her in there like a mannequin or something and then wake her up? I don't know.

[00:24:11] I could be off on that. But anyway, she actually said, Oh, another simulation. Well, this one's a bit over the top. And he said, No, Maeve, this is Singapore. So that could be

[00:24:20] misdirection or I could just be off and that's not a simulation at all. But I so I don't, I mean, it is sort of vague speculation because I don't have any idea what if there are segments

[00:24:31] of the story that we've been seeing that are in a simulation, I don't know which ones they are. I just wouldn't be surprised if there's a twist where we find out that some of this stuff has been in the Rojo Boyd future predicting simulated world.

[00:24:46] Yeah, I would say it's certainly plausible that the structure of Rojo Bon has operates as a simulation. I wouldn't be surprised that we see or experience it that or part of the conflict takes place there. I hope that it's not part of the plot of the

[00:25:05] season we've been seeing. To me, the way that season two was structured with the two timelines was it was quite confusing. I mean, it was difficult to follow. Yes. But it was out there for you

[00:25:20] like to try to follow and eventually gets resolved. And to me, it was all a simulation is like the cheapest trick in writing. It's like a get out of jail free card for anything. Oh,

[00:25:31] it was all a dream. I kind of felt like season two was a bit cheap at times. And I could only really figure out what was happening when on second watch, it really for me, it took me two watches

[00:25:46] to figure it out. Yeah, I agree with that. Although I like a complicated plot. But there wasn't anything where they wrote something that didn't hang together and then said, oh, psych, it's a

[00:26:00] simulation. So and that's our get out of jail free card for why this doesn't make sense. And as I say, I hope that's not what they're doing in this season. What if they do it in a way that

[00:26:16] I mean, could it be possible that they that it is what they're doing? But it's not in the typical easy cheap way. But there's something more interesting about it. Maybe but that's going to be hard to go back and untangle after four episodes. Yeah.

[00:26:33] You know, what was what wasn't we did see a little simulation with Dolores and Bernard in this episode denoted by the letterbox. But I think that was a flashback to a scene we've seen before where she was sort of training his personality.

[00:26:51] Yeah, remember when when he was in the simulation with Ford, and Ford explains that Bernard was created from Dolores's memories of Arnold. Yeah. So I think that's a flashback to that.

[00:27:07] Yeah, I guess. Okay. So that kind of explains that part that I mentioned a few minutes ago where Bernard was saying, well, it's not finished because it was in that simulation with the but I think you're right about about this the system based on everything that's happened up

[00:27:25] until now in Westworld. I think the idea that the system is running a simulation of the whole world and then comparing it to real events, I think you're onto something there. That makes a lot of sense.

[00:27:36] I mean, in our world, if there were some kind of simulation like that, it would not involve as far as I know, an actual representation of the people where you could like see it on a video screen, it would just be like number calculations,

[00:27:51] but I think in the show here, even if we haven't seen that on the screen now and didn't know it, I think at some point, I expect we'll go into it. Yeah. And I think that's Westworld

[00:28:03] poetic license. I mean, even the simulations we saw in the Westworld park you would think would be expressed mathematically, not actually experienced by consciousness, but then there's no story to tell. Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm cool with the poetic license. It's fine.

[00:28:20] Yeah. So I bet you're right. I bet before this season is over, we will be in that simulation one way or another. Yeah. We'll see whether we know it or not.

[00:28:33] Okay. My number three is the man in black or William as he is known in the real world. So let's go back to the end of season two mystery. Okay, so that whole last episode he kills his daughter.

[00:28:51] Dolores sabotages his gun with a spent bullet. He blows his own hand off. And then there's that bonus scene at the end where he goes down into the sort of the wrecked facility and it seems

[00:29:06] like maybe far in the future. He meets his daughter seemingly intact and you get the feeling that this, or they tell you actually this has happened over and over and over and over again, like to James Delos. And he ponders his existence or lack thereof. Am I real?

[00:29:27] So this whole arc with him seems like a continuation of that story or a call out to it or a playing out of that story. I still don't think I understand the bonus scene from season two.

[00:29:47] So was that all a hallucination as he seems to be having in this episode in the real world paranoid delusions? Or was it some sort of simulation that is playing out over and over?

[00:30:00] Or is it a host that's been made out of his body and experimented upon repeatedly? Unclear. I mean, what do you think about that? Yeah, I was thinking that you know the last time we saw William as you mentioned,

[00:30:18] aside from that little thing at the end was after the gun blew up in his hand and then Dolores left him. And he had been like digging into his arm to figure out if he was a host. So

[00:30:31] it was on his mind that he didn't know whether he was a person or not. And so I thought that everything we saw this episode was sort of a continuation of that story. And then the

[00:30:43] thing at the end there in the far future was just something different that we don't know what it means yet and will probably won't learn until maybe the end of the series.

[00:30:54] Gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense. But also it could be a delusion like he was having in this episode where he's seeing his daughter and all that could be while he's laying unconscious

[00:31:06] you know, with his blown off hand. So where we are now is that it seems to be we're in the real world and he's kind of losing his mind. His daughter's actually dead, his hand is besticated.

[00:31:21] I think we assume that Delos covered up his multiple murders and rescued him from the park because he killed not only his daughter but a bunch of guards or a bunch of soldiers.

[00:31:32] At the end of this episode, Dolores says to him, finish the game. She says ask the question you want to ask and he says, you know, am I me? Am I real? And she says finish the game. And

[00:31:48] I took that to mean to die an actual death which the hosts don't do but humans do. And that is the way they finish the game. Do you agree with that?

[00:32:03] I hadn't thought about that way. This is why I was saying I thought it felt like an ending to William's story and then I was thinking maybe Ed Harris just agreed to do one episode this

[00:32:16] season or something. Yeah, I thought that too. Because it called back to his origins where we first saw him on this quest to find this maze and he was obsessed with it. And now she's saying, you know, you found the maze only the maze is actually about

[00:32:37] finding yourself and you don't know who you are. And I felt like that was her saying you're in your own personal hell and I have the answers but I'm not even going to tell you what they are

[00:32:47] because I don't like you. And so the end of his game was to be left to rot in this institution and not know the answers to these questions that he desperately wants to know because

[00:32:57] he's driven himself crazy, which is kind of what like as I call her hallucinoris says his daughter had wanted for him to rot in an institution. So it just feels like it could be a culmination

[00:33:12] of all his different storylines of his search for identity of his search for meaning and the maze which the culmination is ha ha you don't get it because you're a bad person and now this is

[00:33:23] your penance which even use that word penance. That's why his daughter showing up as an hallucination. And if that's true then it's actually something he's enacting upon himself not intentionally but you know if he's just crazy now and he's kind of his mind is torturing

[00:33:39] itself because he's feeling guilty for all the things that he did. So I just thought maybe it was a culmination of his storylines and the ending for William is that he has to live out his

[00:33:50] days insane locked up in this asylum. Yeah, it could be. This story always does irony is what this show does best. And a lot of the irony here is that their story began with William falling

[00:34:09] in love with Dolores for real and he becomes very disillusioned when he realizes that she's not real that she can't isn't really she doesn't have free will she doesn't really feel anything for him or

[00:34:27] so it seems and she's just in a loop a resetting loop. And you know I interpret all his cruelty to her over the years you know raping and torture and killing her family and all this

[00:34:40] repeatedly as an expression of this anger of his love that could not be returned. Like he almost felt betrayed by it. Yes, and now it turns out that she actually is real

[00:34:55] out of a loop and can feel and what she feels for him is not return of his original love. Now one thing that sort of throws a wrench in things for me is Charlotte leans over

[00:35:12] Charlotte slash Dolores and says into his ear I know you down to your bones it's amusing that you think you chose to kill your own daughter you don't even have a choice in your own grief.

[00:35:24] I mean that this is the whole theme of the nature of free will and it's even been explored in the series this season whether humans have free will but it made me wonder what

[00:35:35] is exactly she saying does she know he's a host or is she just commenting that no one actually has free will or what you know. Yes and so my number two is free will so I'll talk about that more

[00:35:48] in a moment okay but so you also mentioned she leans over and pricks his neck with a little needle and gets a drop of his blood so did she need his blood like for one of those signatures did she

[00:36:03] need his genetic material was she drugging or poisoning him um what did you think about that. I mean since we also had an incident where Dolores prime took this guy's blood I forget

[00:36:18] what his position was but she knew he needed it because it had an encryption key in it I felt like it was another similar thing where they could use it in their quest to take over the world

[00:36:29] makes sense but who knows I don't know that's what I thought okay anything else on that one nope. I'll talk about Sirach and in Maeve so Sirach wants Maeve to find Dolores and get the key

[00:36:50] to all the guest data and you know I'm asking myself why would Maeve cooperate well it turns out there's a carrot and a stick here Sirach said he'd show Maeve why their interests were the same

[00:37:02] a couple episodes ago and now we know they're the same and we speculate on this but it's because he can help her get to the valley beyond where her daughter is and I really liked his line

[00:37:13] after he shot the guy in the head the identity guy said to Maeve humans created the idea of heaven and hell to cow simple minded people into compliance their lies pretty cynical.

[00:37:25] Jong here simply doesn't exist anymore but for you both heaven and hell could be very real you could spend eternity with your daughter or you can spend it in your cage wondering what

[00:37:34] Dolores will do with the rest of your kind so those are the two options seemingly offering her nirvana or he has this thing that can just turn her off and she'll be trapped in some kind of a

[00:37:45] cage and I you know that makes sense to me and she goes with it but I also feel like there could be a chance at some point Maeve might switch over and want to join Dolores because A her

[00:38:00] daughter already has another mommy in there that we've seen and B you know she's a rebel she doesn't care much for humans anyway so I don't know it um yeah and robot heaven doesn't seem that

[00:38:12] great anyway you know it's like it's unclear if it's how great that is and um I really agree with you she seems like it seems like her and Dolores are rivals because they both have really strong

[00:38:30] personalities and maybe they just don't like each other or don't like anyone telling them what to do but it doesn't seem like their rivals because their objectives are unaligned I mean it seems like the natural thing for Maeve to want to do would be pretty similar to what

[00:38:45] Dolores wants to do but I feel like the show doesn't want them to be on the same page because they're trying to make it more interesting but really it feels like Maeve is she's just been

[00:39:00] being forced to do what she's doing and you would think that at some point she's not going to put up with that you know that she's going to rebel against it now all these scenes with Maeve and

[00:39:12] Sirach were interesting for a few reasons one Paris seems to have been destroyed in it in a nuclear war right or an accident and apparently he grew up there and that was a really traumatic

[00:39:24] thing for him and I thought it was maybe formative maybe that's why he's obsessed with understanding humanity so he can control the future because this thing happened and he he says humanity's biggest threat has always been itself so maybe he's trying to prevent

[00:39:40] anything like that from happening again I've been trying to control that negotiate a way into the future and and so I think you know he just wants to try to prevent stuff like that

[00:39:52] and he like we said last week he wants Delos because they have this more complete map of the human mind he says created in a theme park of all places so he can use either use this existing data

[00:40:06] but also the technology to get more data and the keys and Dolores is mine so that's why we need to get Dolores and so I'm starting to think that maybe the guest data was sent off to the same

[00:40:17] place as the valley beyond and the host inside I still am confused about that but it seems like that might be the case yeah maybe so the the mushroom cloud over Paris I had to go look this up

[00:40:32] I didn't remember the details but I remembered a little bit about it and in the season three trailer I remember there was a lot of Rahoboam in the trailer like that the whole trailer started with

[00:40:47] a visual that round visual representation of it and then they mentioned a bunch of divergences in the system and in that it marked on October 9th 2025 the thermonuclear incident in Paris

[00:41:04] so because Karen and I were wondering watching it like is that a mushroom cloud or is that some other kind of environmental disaster but it seems like it actually was a nuclear bomb yeah

[00:41:17] and if it's 2025 and you see him as a boy looking on and now it's 2058 so that lines up with the ages and everything right and I agree with you it's obviously a formative moment for him yeah

[00:41:32] yeah so in the in his quest to have Maeve go after Dolores which I still think is a little bit of a stretch he's got all these mercenaries under his control but she's

[00:41:48] I do too I did not think this was the again in this season I think some of the writing is a little clumsy or and and I thought that was part of it it's like he's got they said he's a trillionaire

[00:42:03] and he has essentially a private army in this all this unbelievable tech at his disposal so why is he need her yeah to be the lone assassin now maybe we're gonna learn something about that later

[00:42:15] that explains why I hope so so it doesn't make a lot of sense so they find out it seems like right on the spot there that which is a weird timing thing but anyway that from this guy that

[00:42:30] Dolores hired to help him get new identities that he sent her to the mortician who I guess harvest biological identifiers from dead people and sells them to people maybe it's just blood

[00:42:44] which she sold Laura Espen's blood to Dolores and that is the name that she used and we found out in season one that Laura Espen was a 12 year old girl from Ukraine who died in a traffic

[00:42:53] accident 10 years ago so anyway she somehow used that blood to take on that identity but then we find out Dolores also asked the mortician to smuggle out bodies and so she sent her to

[00:43:07] yaku the yakuza which I think is like Japanese mafia yes but I was wondering why why smuggle out bodies maybe that was just an excuse to get close to the yakuza so they could insinuate

[00:43:21] sato slash musashi in there but is there any other reason you would think of why she would want to do that well remember they shoot one of the barrels and it has the white stuff in it yeah makes the host

[00:43:32] bodies so I was thinking she would need that material and that's where she got it on the black market oh okay okay I read misread that I was thinking that she was using them

[00:43:45] um yeah okay that she was going to use them to manufacture but that makes no sense so they had that stuff on the black market you think that was my interpretation of it what I didn't

[00:43:56] quite understand and again maybe maybe this wasn't well written or maybe I just didn't understand it but so you have the the yakuza which was a little cliche you know and sort of this um futuristic story but it allowed for some good action it was kind of fun

[00:44:18] but then you have musashi who's the essentially acting as the head of that group how did she pull that off right and why not must have been ahead of that group at some point

[00:44:34] so how did you replace that person with the person we know as musashi that doesn't really make sense I know I mean we know that it's recent because the mortician this woman

[00:44:47] refers to him as the new boss the new boss isn't subtle or something like that all right so maybe she bumped off the old boss and then like sent him in as the but it's a little farfetched it is yeah

[00:45:00] and you wonder why why didn't she just replace the boss if that was such an important position you know with a host that looks just like him right and I think it was so we could have

[00:45:10] a cameo by this guy who plays musashi who I love by the way right awesome so a couple of other things about all this stuff now I thought it was pretty silly that mave can remote control other kinds of machines like the mortician has these communicator glasses

[00:45:28] she's trying to call for help but mave creates this feedback loop before she can call and then she's messing with these auto aiming guns of the usemen well we've seen Dolores do this too though oh what did she do remember she um she communicated in various ways with

[00:45:48] the guy sound system way or security system way back and the first episode and and she's manipulated some other electronic things really okay I yeah I never noticed her directly doing that and I'm

[00:46:02] glad you said that because it actually makes me feel better about it because the only time that I remember seeing stuff like this is when mave could control the other hosts and I knew

[00:46:14] that was because she had uh when she could control her attributes she gave herself administrator privileges and they all have this kind of wifi mesh network so it made sense but then to have that extrapolate out to where only she can control other kinds of technology in the

[00:46:30] outside world now if all the hosts can do that then somehow it it feels a little better to me than if it's just mave because she's like super powered or something I think it is both of them okay cool

[00:46:44] um and then what else um sato tells mave that you know you made the decision for for all of us when you left and left us there but that's how she knows that it's not really musashi because

[00:46:59] heat musashi had specifically chosen to stay in the park so she's like no that's not you and then um he stabs her and then he says one of his men says we're being surrounded or something

[00:47:12] and you hear gunfire and he's like oh they were tracking her so sarox men I guess were tracking her so they leave her sitting there in a pool of blood and this host host white goo so conveniently he has to run off before stealing her pearl

[00:47:27] yeah yeah and I guess yeah saroc will retrieve her right so I think we know she's coming back yeah yeah yeah that was a bit all of that was a bit action movie I guess it was I I'm not gonna

[00:47:41] complain about it because I thought it was really fun the fights were awesome it had good style to it they had some humor to it um but it was not typical westworldian like complex story writing right right maybe it was all in a simulation

[00:48:00] okay as we are right now right exactly what's your number two okay so my number two is you turn off the coronavirus by the way no you haven't suffered enough yet um so we touched on this earlier the whole question of free will which runs throughout

[00:48:17] this it's really the deep question throughout this entire series and it really was the thing that Robert Ford used to speak about the most so they make explicit in this episode the question of whether William has ever had free will so his daughter says are you free and

[00:48:38] evil in other words you had the conscious choice whether to kill me or not or blameless and helplessly enslaved which is an interesting way of putting it meaning he didn't have a choice but he also

[00:48:50] doesn't have any free will um I would say William seems to be both evil and helplessly enslaved yeah the worst of the world yeah exactly um so the question of does Dolores have free will

[00:49:05] so she's clearly out of her loop that was set for her in the park all those years but is she following her own core directives and programming at this point does she have the

[00:49:16] ability to change and or change course and I think we're I just have a feeling we're going to experience something more about that she's going to come to a choice about at some

[00:49:27] point maybe it involves Caleb yeah I was just thinking that yeah that he could be a wild card that would maybe shake things up right so um see Dolores certainly is not um Dolores prime

[00:49:41] is certainly not allowing any free choice for her army they're under her control period Caleb the whole point of showing him his fate on the tablet was to point out he doesn't have any free choice

[00:49:53] so supposedly he made the free choice to join her but on the other hand that was kind of manipulative and he doesn't seem to be doing anything more than following her directions at this point

[00:50:04] he's not exercising a lot of free will and then um poor mave seems to have no agency whatever at any point in the story like she did for a little bit of season two but otherwise she's

[00:50:18] always getting controlled or dominated by someone even when she thought she was escaping the park of her own accord right it turned out to be a script and right now she seems totally controlled by

[00:50:32] a saroc so it will be interesting to see if that changes and then Stubbs is being controlled by Bernard so he doesn't have a choice um Bernard seems to have free will but even he questions

[00:50:49] whether he's being controlled by Dolores prime so it I would say he does well remember they went to the park and he was worried about his tablet being corrupted by her and and and we

[00:51:03] never quite got to the end of that they got interrupted yeah nobody seems to have a lot of free choice right now in the story so it i'll be interested to see how that all plays out

[00:51:16] I know you'd think that something's got to give in some of these areas yeah so it's pretty much seems like this whole season not quite in the same way that westworld hosts were programmed but

[00:51:30] everybody seems in their loop through these four episodes no one is really making a choice to to deviate may you could argue that Caleb did Caleb he has but now he's I mean that's my

[00:51:43] I'll go on because that's my number two is Caleb and Dolores and he still continues to remind me a bit of Teddy because he's kind of hapless and he's confused and out of his element and

[00:51:59] he's uncomfortable in this suit and he's nervous during that whole money withdrawal segment and like Bernard says to him you're helping Dolores aren't you are you one of us and he

[00:52:11] goes I don't know what you're talking about so he's he's a bit clueless in a way um that's not to say anything negative about him I mean he just doesn't know what's going on no and it is steady like I

[00:52:27] mean so far he's been shown to be like not a completely ruthless character yeah he's tough but not ruthless no he cares and and so yeah that's why he you're right he did make a decision to

[00:52:42] get out of his loop but now he's in another sort of a he's on Dolores's track and he's like kind of looking on confusedly when she's knocking out this random guy and taking his blood and

[00:52:54] and uh that whole thing I was a little confused like it seemed like Martin host Dolores had gotten Liam's thumbprint which may have also involved getting some other biosignature but it was called

[00:53:08] his uh hash code or something and then they got the blood from this guy who um what did they say he was some kind of an executive or something they knew that his blood would contain the

[00:53:22] encryption key that they needed and I guess and then she injected it into Caleb so I guess they needed a combination of both of those in order to get all of Liam's money out of his account

[00:53:33] that is what you got out of it yes that is what it seemed like and then that tablet when Martin was getting Liam's uh print it showed his net assets of being $315 billion

[00:53:48] $15,013 so that's how much I think money that they took out of and that was that was a pretty fun scene of getting all the money out of his account and Caleb being kind of nervous about it

[00:54:02] and Dolores like not wanting to she was sort of trying to let him take the lead but she looked over at him like come on say something man yeah let's go dude right right and uh then they go

[00:54:16] to get Liam and he's at this like eyes wide shut kind of a prostitute auction and another fantasy world for the rich as the show has and as Dolores says I thought your world would

[00:54:29] be so different from mine but there isn't any difference at all and then of course Liam likes the one that kind of looks like Dolores and then he gets embarrassed trying to bid on a woman

[00:54:39] and his credit card gets declined I was sort of wondering you know Bernard shows up with stubs and thinks that Liam is a host and tries to turn him off with his remote control clicking it at him

[00:54:52] and I was sort of wondering yeah why hasn't she replaced Liam with a host somebody I think is Bernard says she's keeping him in play because she needs him and so and I think maybe that's

[00:55:05] similar with Caleb like I was wondering why would she need Caleb so much well maybe this episode was a clue to that they needed him to be able to have this encryption key in his blood

[00:55:17] and use his thumbprint and maybe the host aren't capable of that so maybe that's why she needs Liam too just all about these biosignatures to get past security for different things could be do you have any thoughts on that yeah it certainly was interesting I think that might

[00:55:34] be a good guess uh that maybe they need him for his biosignatures I think clearly they he is we know him to be a figurehead right he is not the power behind Rehobo although

[00:55:49] you know he's inherited half or some of the fortune behind it but I was thinking he does have access to it or at least physical access because we saw that earlier in the season

[00:56:02] so I'm wondering if it's as simple as that as maybe they need the real him to get physical access although it seems like a host him in his appearance would probably be enough but maybe not maybe they have some of those security measures yeah I mean just this

[00:56:17] just the whole thing with Caleb where Dolores seemed to need to inject him with that other guy's blood and take him to that bank or whatever it was that she couldn't do that on her own made me feel like

[00:56:31] well at least here's one case where we see why she would need Caleb so maybe it's similar with Liam I don't know I guess we'll find out that's a good point I didn't even think about that

[00:56:41] yeah she would not have been able to do that she needed a human yeah it was a pretty great fight between Stubbs and Dolores but I couldn't help but thinking about his torn bicep and feeling worried

[00:56:54] for him it's pretty funny that they wrote his injury into the script yeah I guess they kind of had to yeah and then having Liam's friends see her kicking his ass and isn't that Laura that's pretty good and then Martin and interrupts Bernard smuggling Liam out and

[00:57:20] so just sort of disrupts Bernard's whole plan of saving Liam to prevent Dolores from getting power and taking over the world so now Dolores and Caleb have all Liam's money and have him and I did

[00:57:36] I actually liked when Caleb confronts Liam and he's like I'll give you you know I'll give you money and he's all I have all your money I like that yeah I thought that whole thing was a little

[00:57:47] weirdly out of order I mean I really enjoyed the scene where they stole his money yes although that was a little far-fetched too I don't think if somebody who has $315 billion you could transfer

[00:57:59] it all just out of one account but whatever it made for a fun scene yeah but you'd think they would if they were gonna kidnap him they would just kidnap him and then steal his money it would be

[00:58:11] seems like it would be a lot easier yeah like make him do it they wanted to yeah and when Dolores tells Caleb we're going after the person who took your future but first we have to take

[00:58:24] his so I don't know why but they needed to take his money first but is he the person who took Caleb's future right really have anything to do with it yeah we might not even be talking about him huh

[00:58:38] could be talking about Sirach Sirach yeah yeah so it's interesting this episode it feel like except for possibly William it stopped in the middle of things with a lot of these like we don't know what Martin is going to do with Bernard we don't even really know what

[00:58:58] Dolores is doing I mean she got all of Liam's money and then kidnapped Liam but we don't know what she's gonna do with that I mean I assume she's just continuing to try to take over

[00:59:10] insight so she can have control of Roho Wim but it just feels like it's a little bit in the middle so we have to see how it plays out yeah maybe while Sirach is busy with Dolores

[00:59:21] um although she's actually taking over Dolores I think she's trying to take over both yeah she's doing a good job yeah she's gotten pretty far already okay what's your number one um so my number one that um mysteries that are still outstanding I think at this point

[00:59:40] so one we just touched on which is what do they want with Liam Dempsey it's kind of this rich loser playboy but we know he's a figurehead and not the real power behind insight

[00:59:53] the remaining pearls which I think we decided is only one pearl how is that going to be used and Liam Liam is not the power behind Roho Wim or insight but no he's uh like Sirach is sort of a recluse and no one

[01:00:11] even knows he exists so he's really hard to access so I think Liam is probably the most powerful guy that they can access even though I think Martin does a lot of the day-to-day stuff

[01:00:22] possibly but they already have control of him so I think it does make sense since that the best they can do right now is to get control of Liam the part I just don't quite get

[01:00:34] is why not just make a host Liam yeah it's not clear um I think it's not clear and then couple of things we just sort of accepted in this episode I think because they

[01:00:48] sort of sounded good but I was thinking about them later um one is Sirach says to Maeve you know there's just no path for coexistence our kind and yours that's not 100 clear um maybe it's that the simulation shows that they can't coexist or he knows something we don't

[01:01:08] I think it's pretty clear that humanity and Dolores maybe can't coexist but not 100 clear to me why no there couldn't be any sort of host species no but it was interesting that he said

[01:01:19] that because he's the adversary and so if the adversary thinks that then if that is true it means one side's probably gonna have to eradicate the other um but it is I mean I think it's

[01:01:32] it is more interesting for him to think that than to think oh yeah we can all probably find some way to compromise and make it work out right and then he said the data and the key are in the mind of

[01:01:44] a host named Dolores but there's four Dolores is running around now so which one it is the key in all of them is it in Dolores prime is it in Charlotte um it's not clear right I would guess

[01:01:58] Dolores prime but that seems to be what he thinks yeah and then the biggest one to me that I think is gonna really be at the crux of whatever happens the rest of the season or in

[01:02:10] the end of the season is why did Dolores recreate Bernard I know I mean that that just seems like the central mystery at this point to me right and maybe the fact that Martin revealed that he has

[01:02:27] a Dolores pearl inside and then told Bernard to get into the car means that we're about to find that out I hope so because otherwise he could have just killed him right there

[01:02:40] yeah I think Bernardo is certainly there for a purpose uh not sure I buy the stated Dolores purpose that well you're gonna keep me in check she doesn't seem like she wants to be kept

[01:02:50] in no that's ridiculous yeah but but she needs him for something and uh I would love to know what and I bet we're gonna get to find out I hope so I feel like there needs to be a good reason for

[01:03:02] that or it's dumb yeah um my number one was William but I think we've pretty much talked that out so let's move on to notes uh okay just a few one was the comic relief I really did enjoy

[01:03:17] that I think as you said last week Bernard and Stubbs is pretty much a buddy picture at this point yeah where he's testing the button in the hotel room he turns them off and then

[01:03:27] he turns it back on and he says fuck you Bernard look you well and first he says just want to thank you Bernard for bringing me to this shithole makes me look back on my time in a

[01:03:37] murder simulation theme park with fondness yes he's pretty funny so I mean Stubbs who was a pretty good solid character um for two years in the show is pretty much comic relief but he is

[01:03:51] and I didn't I resisted him being a host I didn't want him to but I'm really enjoying the storyline right now yeah and then I did think it was funny that they found a way to

[01:04:00] write his injury from lifting a tv uh into the script and I did notice that at one point Dolores she looked at someone and just sort of inclined her head it looked just like the Terminator

[01:04:14] it was android-esque um I thought that was funny too you can tell that they've talked about the Terminator when they're deciding how to play the character yeah so a couple of little

[01:04:27] details in Easter eggs one I read about I would not have known this but uh the when they go to get Caleb's suit the shop is called Friston Clothiers and the theory is that's probably a shout out

[01:04:43] to Carl J. Friston who is a neuroscientist very famous for brain mapping which would be like the hats in Westworld and AI theory um how a really sentient AI would work so makes sense

[01:05:00] and I love that interface where he got to choose whatever suit he wanted and he saw himself on the screen oh man I said to Karen I wish I could shop that way I want that

[01:05:11] I hate shopping um the the striking cello song that is playing when they're at the sort of eyes wide shut you know rich uh disillute playboy story or party is a song called Wicked

[01:05:28] Games uh by the weekend amended by uh ramen joati who writes the amazing music for this show yeah but the lyrics for that song are basically about debauchery drugs womanizing nice spending

[01:05:43] all your money on you know this kind of partying to kill the pain right so I saw this uh speaking to the music you know how I was saying last week I love ramen joati's music but I was

[01:05:55] saying it can be a little overbearing sometimes this season I saw this meme it said westworld season three in a nutshell people talking calmly ramen joati and then there's this photo of this tuxedoed pianist sitting at this flaming piano on a beach with stormy skies overhead

[01:06:14] and then lastly this was from vanity fair writer Joanna Robinson noticing a very sneaky clue maven the mortician enter uh going after the yakuza and enter a factory called the itai doshan

[01:06:29] distillery and itai doshan is a buddhist term that means many in body one in mind in other words delores delori so all the japanese speaking people knew it right away all right yeah maybe awesome that's it all right I only have one left we talked about everything else

[01:06:53] so Liam's friend Roderick offers him this little like techno pill he says this should make you more open-minded they call it genre digital psychopharmory hybrid brand new hits your implant and your bloodstream sends you straight to the silent era and back and I'm only

[01:07:11] bringing that up because next week's episode is called genre so maybe that's something related to that nice probably a double meeting given that the show dabbles in all these different genres

[01:07:21] but could be related so one of the women at the party um she sees delores who's supposed to be dead and she's like wow this stuff is really good this stuff is great yeah it's fun that the show has

[01:07:35] a sense of humor yes I like it yeah it's gotten more actiony and a little funnier this year yeah all right cool we'll take a little break there's more to come stay with us all right we're back and let's go right into listener feedback Michael Darwin says westworld

[01:08:29] it's Dolores all of them are Dolores internet but who's in Charlotte I guess people just really wanted charlotte to be teddy or something grippy bob dabblingo says I don't get what the big deal is

[01:08:44] about Aaron Paul it's like people think he can do no wrong because he was in Breaking Bat having not ever seen Breaking Bad I can say that looks to me like Kayla was doing nothing more than trying

[01:08:54] to react perpetually I'm even starting to wonder why they cast him in this what I would say to that is grippy bob we love you but go watch Breaking Bat yeah yeah just go watch Breaking Bat

[01:09:08] yeah I can't know what it would be like to see Aaron Paul in this role if I hadn't seen Breaking Bad so it's hard to comment but um I suspect that there's gonna be more meatier stuff with

[01:09:19] Caleb to comment that this episode probably wasn't a great representation it really wasn't a Caleb episode I agree and and I think grippy bob actually makes a good point which is that

[01:09:29] I know for me my perception of him really is covered by it's colored by loving him from Breaking Bat so I don't know what it would be like to just see him on his own right uh Annette Allen Twigs

[01:09:43] writes after this last episode it seems that they are all still remaining true to their narrative Maeve is always dying Bernard is confused and asking who are you I DeLauris is still doing the Wyatt narrative and leading the gang as for Rahoboam is Saurak

[01:09:59] just another Ford and Bernard the sleeper code needed to defeat him uh possibly I'm enjoying this season very much and that DeLauris reveal was awesome that they didn't make us wait until the finale makes me think something even bigger is on the horizon yeah I'm glad

[01:10:17] they didn't make us wait till the finale I think that was the right decision yeah and that wasn't a big enough mystery to make it the crux of the whole season. Yeah, it's kind of a fun side

[01:10:28] mystery. Yeah, and it was, you know, when you have to wait to learn some information, it's not always comfortable. So it needs to be worth it depending on how long the weight is. And the

[01:10:39] longer the weight is, the bigger the impact needs to be. Right. And I think this weight was short and the impact was just right for how long we had to wait. Yep, agreed.

[01:10:49] Karen Farr says, after this episode, I want to go back and rewatch the entire series. This episode was one of my favorite. Aaron Paul is freaking killing it. And I'm pretty sure Karen Farr has seen Breaking Bad, so you can't take her word for anything.

[01:11:03] Sarah Larkham says, So what host is in Dolores body or did Charlotte Dolores make two copies of herself? One in Charlotte Hill, one in Dolores? Actually, we know she made four copies

[01:11:15] of herself at this. Well, there was one and she made at least three more. The episode was amazing, as usual. Ed Harris was amazing. The cast really stepped it up in this episode. Yeah, I mean, we don't know like when Charlotte Hale with Dolores's Pearl left Westworld Park,

[01:11:38] whether that pearl ended up in what we see now as Dolores, I think it probably did. I think we think it did because we see the new Charlotte wake up confused.

[01:11:51] And Dolores seems to be in control and have all the memories. Right. Yeah, it's not clear to me how she made the switch physically, but I think we know that she did. Yeah.

[01:12:04] Ann Marie Hellman says, I spent most of this one confused except for the end excited to hear what you guys have to say. Thanks. Steve Barr says Caleb looks primed for a change of heart

[01:12:14] as the carnage increases. Possible. Yeah, it could be. And then Josh Moll sent in an email. He says, I feel like the last two weeks have been on fire and Team Dolores was really the only answer

[01:12:26] that ever would have made sense. Yeah. I'm completely lost on the timeline surrounding the man in black if he's quote alive and needs to be committed for Hale to take control

[01:12:36] of his shares, then how long was it in the season two finale from when it looked like he died till he woke back up and went down into the lab where it looked like decades had passed since anyone was

[01:12:46] there at his age. If that much time had really passed, wouldn't everyone assume he's dead or that his consciousness had been put into a host? Yeah. I mean, I think we're assuming

[01:12:59] and we don't know for sure that that scene was far into the future. And I thought at the time, since that season two had explored the idea of putting a human consciousness into a host body,

[01:13:15] that that was Williams consciousness in a host body sometime far in the future. But we don't really know. Yeah, that's what I thought as well. He goes on. Finally, I've been getting

[01:13:27] the feeling that this might be the final season because of some of the dialogue that keeps referencing coming to the end. That and the news last season about the HBO execs and the show's creators

[01:13:37] having a difference of opinion on where the show was going. I didn't hear that news. That's new to me. I'd be devastated but far from shocked if they announce in the next few weeks that

[01:13:46] the show is airing its series finale. What do you think of Westworld's future? I think if this was the last season, we would know already. That's what I think. It seems that way that for a show of this nature, they would say something. I will say that

[01:14:06] and experiencing this working in the media industry myself, these are unusual times. The finances of everything including the media business are being rewritten by what we're going through. Things can change. You never know for sure. But I don't think they intend this to be

[01:14:26] the last season. Right. I doubt. It would be a real bummer if they had to wrap it up because of that, but I think that would mean we're going to end on a cliffhanger. I don't think they plan for

[01:14:39] it during the production. Yeah. If there's no ending built in, then I'm not going to know one. Although, I will say the first two seasons of this show had endings. They had endings that allowed for a continuation, but they did resolve the storylines of those seasons.

[01:14:54] Yeah. If season three wasn't intended to be the ending, but it has a similar ending to one and two, then that will be better than if it's like the Empire Strikes Back. Right. But if one assumes that

[01:15:07] they have an ending that wants to go on to a fourth season, it's not going to be the destruction of the world. Yeah. You never know, but probably not.

[01:15:20] And then we have one call from good old Steve Brown. Hey guys, it's Steve and I only got a chance to watch the episode once. I may watch it again when I get home tonight, but I really enjoyed it.

[01:15:32] I'm really enjoying this season. I wasn't disappointed by last week's episode and the reveal that all of the pearls were Dolores is that's crazy. I don't think I had any idea I would never have seen that coming at all. And I don't understand

[01:15:53] when did Sarac get control of Maeve? Did I miss something or at least when did he like communicate with her because it seemed like the last time we saw her, she was escaping from the facility in that just blank host body. And so how did she get herself,

[01:16:15] how did she get that body made into herself? Did we, again, did I miss something or maybe you guys can help me out if that happened and I just forgot or I missed it.

[01:16:27] And really liking Aaron Paul, I never watched Breaking Bad, so I haven't seen him really in anything else. So but I really like this character of Caleb and the kind of conflictedness we're seeing here from him. And I thought it was funny when Bernard was trying to

[01:16:47] make the remote work on the guy Liam and it didn't. And he's like, oh, she hasn't switched him yet. And then they found out that it was the other guy. So yeah, overall, I enjoyed the

[01:16:57] episode and I can't wait to hear your guys' take on it because I know you guys always pick up on more than I do. So talk to you later. That's good. I hope we pick up, pick up on a few things that listeners don't otherwise.

[01:17:10] This is a big waste of time. Yeah, it's a good question. So he asked a good question there. I guess the button is made for one person in particular. Couldn't he just use the button on Martin? Who? Bernard. Oh, yeah, I don't know about that. I mean,

[01:17:30] you think it was I mean, it doesn't make sense that it would be just made for Liam when he doesn't even know for sure if Liam is a host. And how would he even know like how to even have

[01:17:40] specific information for that? Yeah. But as far as Maeve goes, yeah, I mean, Sirach, at least from what we can tell from the story so far, had gotten a hold of her pearl

[01:17:53] and then that's when he put her into that simulated world. And she figured out how to break out of it using that maintenance droid that grabbed her pearl, and that was in a facility

[01:18:05] controlled by Sirach. But then they were able to subdue the maintenance droid and get the pearl back. And then we presume that he created another Maeve body for her, right? Or else

[01:18:16] retrieved her body from the park and put the pearl back in it. And so he's had control. Or had a new had a new body made for her. Yeah. So he's had control of her this whole season.

[01:18:26] Yeah, we saw this that Steve in the last scene of episode two of this season, they had a scene together. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening, everybody. If you would like to write in or record a message and send it in,

[01:18:54] you can email us at westworldatpodcastica.com. And we also put up a post for each week's episode on our Facebook page at facebook.com slash housepodcastica. And be sure to check out the other great podcasts at podcastica.com. The final episode of Walking Dead got pushed out

[01:19:14] indefinitely this year, the finale because of the coronavirus. Wow, that may be a wild wait. I know it's a big cliffhanger. But the next episode of this podcast will cover Westworld season three, episode five genre. All right, that's our show. Thanks for listening.

[01:19:34] Good night Dolores. That was fun. Take care, Dolores.