23: "Passed Pawn" (S3E7)

[00:00:00] We have some questions. Then I will endeavor to have some answers. You're here in this moment, which means this is variant 47.136.x, in which both you, subject U454.1, Nichols, Kamal, Caleb and I are still viable. There are still variables leading to slightly different outcomes however.

[00:00:33] If this is indeed now, and we are indeed here. You know me. I know everyone. In all variations. Or at least I did. Except for her. Her pathways are unknown. I'm not one of them. I'm like you. No. You are a Delos product. Host control block 6 alpha 1.

[00:01:00] You were made to imitate the human being. We are not alike in any meaningful way. Maybe, but we both outlived our original purpose. And your creator took the steps to ensure you can't leave this place. I know that feeling. Both of those energies are somewhat vessel.

[00:01:45] And this is how Spodcastico Westworld Edition. This week we are covering Westworld Season 3 Episode 7, Past Pond. And as we were just saying, you know things must be pretty bad when Westworld is a pick-me-up. Yeah, it's kind of a feel good show, you know after a hard day.

[00:02:05] You want something to cheer you up. Just ponder the extinction of humanity. Yeah. Well, this week we have our top five highlights for Westworld Season 3 Episode 7, Past Pond. What did you think of this one? I liked it for the most part.

[00:02:25] I've I think adjusted to this season at this point, which is good because there's only one left. You know, it continues to be its own thing in its own style. It's more sort of big plot event and action driven. So maybe not as intricate as in the past.

[00:02:42] But I thought there was some good action and some interesting plot and I enjoyed it. Yeah, I mean for me, you know, often my first and second watches are I have a different estimation of something.

[00:02:56] You know, I usually like it more on second watch, not always but usually this episode was really like that for me. On first watch, I thought it was it kind of dragged the whole thing with revealing Caleb's past felt repetitive. Like, come on get to it.

[00:03:12] We kind of already I already kind of thought that he killed Francis, so it wasn't much of a revelation when it actually happened. And it even felt a bit cliched the the fight with Dolores and Maven everything.

[00:03:23] But but then on second watch, I guess because I was just digging into the details of it and I found it more interesting and more engaging.

[00:03:33] And it made me definitely look forward to when I think about the ramifications of different things that made me look forward to the finale more. So I liked it more on second watch. Yeah, I agree with you on that. And I sort of felt the same.

[00:03:45] I thought it was a little slow. Yeah, the first time through and they kept going through the Caleb story. I was like, all right, we get it already.

[00:03:51] But but then the second time going through it, there was a lot of little details in the Caleb story that kept changing. And that was interesting and cool. Right.

[00:04:00] Like the Cyrillic graffiti changing to English as he's realizing that that whole scene wasn't in Russia, but was in the US. Right. It wasn't a memory that was made up. It was a memory that was just tweaked scrambled. Yeah. Let's get into our top five.

[00:04:18] What's your number five? Okay, so my top five is past pawn, which is the title of this episode to explain what this is. I'm going to read a little bit from a chess website.

[00:04:31] And I think probably a lot of listeners have played chess, but maybe some have not. Here's what it says. It says the past pawn is a pawn that is not obstructed by any piece of the opponent on its way to the other end of the board.

[00:04:44] For you non chess players, if you can get upon which is only able to move after its first move one square at a time in a straight line. If you can get that all the other way to the end of the board, it becomes a queen.

[00:04:57] Meaning your least powerful piece becomes equal to your most powerful piece. And so they, they said on this chess site, hence a past pawn is like a fast runner. Let it run fast.

[00:05:10] You have to keep in mind that it must be protected by another piece of your own. So if your opponent decides to capture it, you will capture the attacking piece.

[00:05:20] Also known as a passer, a past pawn can affect the outcome of the game because it provides valuable strategic advantages. So I thought that was an interesting choice for the title and to me it's sort of obviously applied to Caleb. So I saw him as the past pawn.

[00:05:38] You have Dolores, who is really the queen in the chess analogy, the most powerful piece on her side. She protects Caleb by eventually by sacrificing herself to take out Maeve. And the entire point of this episode is to turn Caleb from the pawn into the queen.

[00:05:58] He becomes the most powerful agent of the revolution himself and presumably equipped to take out the king in this analogy, Angiro-Sirac. I thought what else was interesting is that Caleb seems to me like essentially the new Teddy.

[00:06:15] So Teddy would not accept Dolores editing him and her blood lust and the role she assigned him as her enforcer. But Caleb, after some similar manipulation, seems more okay with it because of his own backstory. Yeah, I mean it's a similar backstory.

[00:06:36] Well actually I thought he had some similarities to Bernard where he's being used as an enforcer for somebody else and then mind-wipe so he doesn't remember it. But maybe that's why Teddy was used to more for entertainment.

[00:06:55] But it just might be a different disposition in the two of them because you're right, Caleb is more ready to go ahead and fight where Teddy just won. Well I mean also it's just a different situation.

[00:07:08] Teddy had been changed into someone he wasn't and Caleb is more kind of discovering who he really is I guess. Yeah and the thing about Caleb is and I want to like Caleb first of all I just love Aaron Paul.

[00:07:25] And I think he's painted as sort of a good guy throughout the season that we've seen so far. Yeah. And one of the things interesting in this episode, and this is honestly part of what's been hard to take about this season.

[00:07:39] So if he's sort of one of the good guys, he turns out to be not a super sympathetic character. I mean he's a military assassin, then he moved on to committing domestic crimes after his discharge. You know for whatever reason however he was manipulated that's what he's doing.

[00:07:56] Even his sort of warm feelings for Francis are a little suspect. I mean Francis was pretty quick to be willing to kill him and he eventually killed Francis to save himself. It's not that much of a feel-good story.

[00:08:09] I mean it's hard to feel sympathetic for him only because we don't really know him. I mean the whole thing with him being an outlier hunter going out and either kidnapping or killing other outliers is completely against his will as far as I'm concerned.

[00:08:27] It's all part of this whole reconditioning process that happened to him. You know so I don't know how much you can blame him for that. They wanted him to do it because somebody said at some point. Right but the reconditioning was after the...

[00:08:44] There's both from what from my understanding actually my number five is Caleb's history. So should I go into it? Yeah go ahead. Okay so based on this episode here's what I think happened.

[00:08:57] Caleb was labeled as an outlier i.e a threat to Rehoboam's plan for keeping everything orderly and peaceful and predictable. And so he was sent to war. We heard Srirac mentioned in a previous episode you know they send him off to dangerous situations like the wood chipper.

[00:09:18] So I really actually do... I was questioning whether they were actually deployed to Russia during this future civil war in Russia. I think they were because when he's having all these realizations and he's speaking to Solomon he's like Francis didn't die over there we made it back.

[00:09:34] So it seems like the revelation is that he was there but Francis didn't die over there. So anyway they're there taking out insurgents then their unit is attacked and I'm pretty sure it was attacked probably by Srirac.

[00:09:49] Because this woman who's reeducating him this lab woman counselor whatever she's saying he's saying our unit was attacked and she goes attacked by who? Attacked by who Caleb? Insurgents. Insurgents.

[00:10:01] She's trying to lead him to the story that she wants him to have so just the fact that that seemed kind of pointed makes me think that they weren't actually attacked by insurgents.

[00:10:11] Not to mention that the same satellite tracking missile system that was used on the insurgents was also used on him and his buddies. I think that's a great point. I didn't really catch that but I thought the satellite delivered missile was mysterious.

[00:10:26] It's like the insurgents have that technology too so that's a good point. I think yeah. So Francis and Caleb survived and I think then they both got sent to reeducation and repurposed as outlier hunters and this guy that they catch that we see this pharmaceutical executive.

[00:10:48] He mentioned Sonora he says you know where you guys both got reeducated and Caleb looks confused because of course he doesn't remember that. The guy even says oh they wouldn't want you to remember. Okay so you're saying there were multiple reeducations. Yeah. Yeah makes sense.

[00:11:06] So they got after they came back from the military they got reeducated and sent out to be these outlier hunters. They don't even know what they're doing.

[00:11:15] Francis mentions a K&R, a kidnapping and ransom and the guys like you don't even know who's hired who's hiring you and they're like oh we don't care it's just a job.

[00:11:26] So they're just totally pawns in this and we see their Rico log Caleb and Francis it has things like kidnapping and ransom assassination arson enhanced interrogation etc etc. So apparently Caleb did do all that kind of thing what he called personals at one point.

[00:11:48] Then they get the assignment to kidnap this pharmaceutical executive and where that went wrong where why it was different from all their other ones is because he started coughing and Caleb felt sorry for him so took off his duct tape from his mouth.

[00:12:03] So that shows that he had some compassion even in that moment. And then the guy says he's an outlier because he worked for the pharmaceutical company that manufactures these limbics that we keep seeing them taking and he started asking too many questions.

[00:12:16] And so they labeled him an outlier and this is where he mentions that they were reeducated in the Sonora facility.

[00:12:24] And then he tells I think he's telling Caleb all this information and he says they're always listening and and it's what they do to people who asked too many questions.

[00:12:34] So I think the reason why Francis got this assignment to assassinate Caleb is because Caleb let this guy talk and there maybe they're listening to it through the phone or something and they see that Caleb's got too much information because I was kind of wondering about that.

[00:12:52] They're having these guys kill each other on the jobs that they go out on. They're not going to want to go on too many more jobs.

[00:12:57] So anyway, they both get the assignment to kill each other and Caleb actually just shot Francis more out of self defense because he saw he was about to get shot. I agree with your assessment.

[00:13:11] I think it's hard to feel sympathetic toward Caleb because we don't know him because most of what we're seeing in this episode in his backstory and again with him as the pawn is that he is the pawn of the system. Ultimately the pawn of Sarac.

[00:13:29] And what we see in the end is that he becomes the pawn of Dolores and Solomon. Which could be another meaning for past pawn which is he's a pawn that has passed sort of from one side to the other. Right. Totally. Right.

[00:13:48] There are little things that you know the fact that he showed compassion for Dolores in the first place when he met her and thought she was wounded. Whether she was actually that wounded or not I'm still not sure about.

[00:14:02] The fact that in this scenario here he wanted to take the guy's bag off his head and help him breathe and gave him some water. He cares about his mother. He doesn't want to do the personals anymore.

[00:14:15] I mean it seems like he's trying just he's just got so much weight on him with all this manipulation. Yes they are giving you some hints that he could be a good person underneath. But remember when he did.

[00:14:28] Yeah when he did show compassion towards the pharmaceutical guy he didn't think they were there to kill him. He thought they were just there to deliver him. Yeah. Somebody.

[00:14:39] Yeah but then you know on the other hand after he shot Francis and then the pharmaceutical guy says oh you just you know made yourself a ton of money because he was I guess going to pay him off to let him go.

[00:14:51] He killed him and that I thought was pretty fucked up because this guy is just kind of bucking the system which you kind of think is probably the right thing to do.

[00:15:01] You know he's bucking the system that's trying to control everybody and Caleb just shot him because he didn't like his attitude. Yeah I read that as I had to kill my buddy my best friend in the world.

[00:15:12] Yeah and I had to do it to defend myself but now you're saying I did it for money and I thought that was where he had that reaction. Yeah well he could have just you know said you know that was really annoying but you just said it.

[00:15:25] He could have. One other detail we get about how the system manipulates people not just through sort of below the level of sight machinations but it seems to use everyone's dependence to keep the dirty work doers motivated.

[00:15:47] So whether it be Caleb's mom Francis's son for whom he needs money. Ash's brother. Remember who turned out to be a criminal himself according to the system they all have somebody they're doing it for.

[00:16:02] That they care about and I'm still not sure whether this woman is actually Caleb's mom maybe not because this guy this pharmaceutical guy says no offense but. They usually use use people who have other people that care about them or something like that.

[00:16:22] And so she could be a plan. Yeah to give him this dependent this thing to that he needs to be responsible for and so that'll make him more likely to fall in line. She did say you're not my son I know. And then she's quite literal.

[00:16:38] Oh mom you have dementia. No I don't. That's not why I'm here for. Yeah but let me see if I have anything else on this.

[00:16:47] I mean there you see bits of his reeducation so they're trying to make him think that he went to war and all this stuff that he that if he has any memories of anything that happened during his time as an outlier hunter.

[00:17:01] They're scrambling it up so he thinks that happened when he was at war including his friend dying because they don't want him to remember what he did for them.

[00:17:11] I also like that the big difference between the early version of the reeducation and the later version that was used on the men in white is they've added one strap to the glasses. They learn as they go continually improving.

[00:17:28] And then you know we questioned how Dolores and Caleb happened to meet and whether it was a coincidence.

[00:17:35] I don't think either one of us thinks that now that we know that another thing we learned in this episode which I kind of suspected is that Rehoboam is in control of this RICO crime app. Yes.

[00:17:48] And so that's how Caleb came to be in the vicinity of Dolores he got an assignment from that app to go deliver that whatever they were going to inject in Dolores's neck to kill. Yeah I had wondered that originally when the first episode with RICO.

[00:18:04] If this system is orchestrating the whole society it would have to have control over that somehow. Right. Or be using it or manipulating it.

[00:18:12] One thing I have been wondering the whole season and probably the answer is just convenient writing which is what it has been most of the season but like how does Dolores know everything? That's what I was just going to yeah.

[00:18:25] I mean there was that scene in episode one that I'm still a little confused about where it's Liam Connells before Connells got switched out with a host, Martin Connells and POM Clemente F the woman that was Serax assistant.

[00:18:40] And she's saying that Rehoboam has been compromised and someone has acquired access on a level we haven't seen before. And at that point Connells is still Connell so we don't have that inside track.

[00:18:52] So it does make me wonder did Dolores have some other way of getting in and had she found out all about Caleb's history and is that why she manipulated the RICO app maybe to bring him there?

[00:19:07] I mean I could be misreading all this because it seems like if she did have all that information then.

[00:19:11] But what is so special about Caleb? Okay we know he's a reeducated outlier killer but he can't be the only one. Maybe she just needed one and settled on him. Hey he's in LA. I know. But it's a little mysterious. I think it's because he's actually young William.

[00:19:31] I don't know. Did you see that thing where his patient ID number is either the same or maybe just one digit off from Williams? I did not.

[00:19:43] When you see it on the screen in the scenes with Bernard and Stubbs you see William and his ID is U and then Caleb has the same one except instead of a 1, one of the digits is an I.

[00:19:58] And I'm like could that be a production error? I mean the show is so good with it. No they're so detailed it always means something. So what the hell? What does that mean? A good mystery. Yeah good mystery. Okay what's your number four?

[00:20:14] So I had Caleb as one of mine so you should keep going. Alright I wanted to talk about what is Dolores doing? She takes Caleb to this Sonora facility. Why go there?

[00:20:29] Well it's where Caleb was reconditioned. He remembers being interrogated there. I've been here before and so she wants him to remember all that to wake up and maybe be motivated to fight back based on being controlled and manipulated like that.

[00:20:45] It's also where this previous AI Solomon is the precursor to Rehoboam and she wants Solomon to come up with a new strategy for rebelling against Rehoboam basically.

[00:21:00] And also I kind of think that maybe it's because it's where all these outliers who couldn't successfully be reconditioned are kept on ice. Like if she's trying to get Caleb to be a leader then maybe these are the people that he'll be leading.

[00:21:21] Although she seemed to surprise to find out that they were there so. Yeah and I think the main event, yes she wants him to wake up and remember is past all that but I think the main event is that Solomon's there. Okay so what? Of going there.

[00:21:37] And to get the strategy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's both because. That's the only entity capable of strategizing against Rehoboam. Uh huh. Yeah. It's like brother against brother. And yeah so she says she wants Solomon to give Caleb one last strategy for revolution.

[00:21:56] Now my question is why does, why is that so important? Bernard says you know Caleb is the plan or whatever he said. Why is it so important for Dolores to have Caleb start this rebellion? What do you think? Um it's not clear to me.

[00:22:17] But I would theorize that there's nine billion humans and only like four hosts. So if you're, yeah if you're gonna actually have a planet sweeping revolution that destroys humanity you're gonna need them involved.

[00:22:32] So you think she's still trying to destroy humanity and when she's selling it to Caleb as a positive thing for him that's disingenuous? Well we've certainly seen her manipulate before. Uh huh.

[00:22:47] Um so maybe not, don't know that for sure but Sarac who has the other very sophisticated AI seems to think that every at least simulation involving what she's up to leads to the destruction of humanity. Right.

[00:23:05] And she's telling Caleb the West was cruel, unjust and chaotic but there was a chance to chart your own course. Which is total bullshit. Right. For the hosts.

[00:23:18] I mean I don't know if she you know and then she's saying people have, people still have a chance you know. So I asked that question.

[00:23:27] If I had to guess I would say she's being disingenuous to him because she wants his help in destroying all of humanity but the way that Evan Rachel would played it, it did seem like she was trying to suggest that you know this would be good for Caleb too.

[00:23:45] And I'm trying to think well what does that actually work like what if Caleb succeeded in rebelling against Rahul woman people were all thrown off their loops. Could that somehow make a world where the hosts would be able to thrive?

[00:24:04] I don't know it doesn't seem clear how that would help the hosts really. I mean they could take it in any direction but I think the information we've been given up till now leads in one direction.

[00:24:16] So right Dolores has she's acquired the technology to make more hosts or we think she has. She certainly was sourcing you know a bunch of the white goop from the Akaza to make more hosts.

[00:24:32] We think she stole the technology to do so from Delos and she's been pretty consistent for a long time now she's been willing to sacrifice anyone, including Teddy who she genuinely loved, including the copies of herself right her plan includes them dying.

[00:24:51] She's been willing to sacrifice anyone and everything. So maybe it will turn out differently but I don't think there's any reason to believe she would be squeamish or sentimental about sacrificing the humans.

[00:25:05] No yeah, yeah I guess I was just thinking we know for sure that Sirach sees these hosts as they need to all die. It's us or them, is it the way he's seen.

[00:25:21] Yeah so maybe if she can take him and Rehoboam out of the equation that there could be a situation where humans and hosts can live together but yeah everything we've seen I mean and maybe Caleb changed her mind about just thinking that all humans are bad and they all need to die.

[00:25:40] Yeah what's interesting about this season is I feel like the showrunners are trying to make you see Sirach as a bad guy and they're pointing out all these terrible things that he's done right.

[00:25:56] He's weeded out these outliers and he's kept these people in suspended animation and he weeded out his own brother and he wants to wipe out the hosts.

[00:26:08] Right just a terrible person but if you step back and look at it from sort of the cold blooded perspective of at least as he sees it. He has an AI sophisticated enough to run an infinite number of scenarios.

[00:26:28] And when he runs it most of those scenarios that don't involve all these things he's been doing or all of the scenarios involve the extinction of humanity. Right so from his perspective he's doing what has to be done. Absolutely that's why I do find this interesting this season.

[00:26:46] Yeah I've had a hard time seeing him as the bad guy.

[00:26:49] I mean my whole my counterpoint to that is can you find a way to do this where people are aware of the problem and you can present solutions or I don't know I guess I'm just trying to find some kind of a humane way to deal with the problem without.

[00:27:12] Right is there a way that it's not fate and we're back to free will. Yeah there a way to do it with free will.

[00:27:18] Exactly because not only are you I mean he also just kills people who he thinks are in his way and keeping people in deep freeze and all that but you're also just sort of resigning everyone to these lives that are not their own choosing.

[00:27:32] You're taking away everyone's free will and it feels like for most people there's this kind of a deep dissatisfaction that maybe mostly unconscious about that so what kind of a life is it for humanity if they're kind of going through it.

[00:27:47] They're kind of going through the motions of their life and feeling deep down that it's not right you know. Yeah. Look I'm not saying the guy is perfect.

[00:28:00] Yeah but it but that's what makes it really interesting to think about I mean I love it you know it's not it's not a totally easy answer.

[00:28:07] I mean I wish that if you know just kind of take for granted that all the presuppositions of this story are true namely that if you leave humanity to its own devices it's going to go extinct that I wish there was some better solution than what Sirach has going on.

[00:28:25] Yeah and at least as the story is playing out sending people off their loops has been apocalyptic.

[00:28:31] And if there's some battle going on between forces I can't see and one of them is going to destroy humanity and the other isn't I'm not sure which I'd be rooting for the destroy humanity side. Yeah totally yeah. Okay what's your what number three.

[00:28:49] Yes so my number three is Solomon. This really was my favorite part of the episode. The not quite sane AI. I think it was mine too. We haven't really gotten to know or interact with Rahobo. It's been sort of this remote force that we hear about. No voice.

[00:29:12] Yeah so at least so far so this is the first time we've gotten to. I think it sounds like Mickey Mouse that's what I'm imagining. So this one Solomon has the seems to have the personality of Jean-Mil who's supposedly with Schizophrenic.

[00:29:26] Yes and it's voiced by the actor Paul Cooper who plays John Me. Right so I like that Solomon is French. I like that seems French. I like that Solomon is kind of salty like Dolores is like hey we're similar he's like no we're not you're a Delos product.

[00:29:45] We're not to imitate a human being and then she's like well we have all these ways we're like he's like we're not really like. No that's a facile. Yeah so she takes herself so seriously these days it was nice to see her taken down a peg. Right.

[00:30:00] I wanted to go back and talk about Solomon because like the title of episodes every name they choose seems to mean something on this show. Solomon in the biblical stories the wisest man who ever lived and is described as also one of the most foolish.

[00:30:18] He was gifted with wisdom but he squandered the wisdom by disobeying God's commandments. So here you have Solomon who at the point it was designed is the smartest AI in history almost a new species of its own but also has this mental flaw so like Solomon.

[00:30:38] The name Solomon means peaceable. This show does irony very well so Solomon is trying to design a piece of a kind but what kind is it.

[00:30:50] And then Solomon in the Bible ruled for 40 years secured stability for the kingdom of Israel built the first temple gave us the splitting the baby analogy or saying as a judge. What is it again.

[00:31:07] So two women came before Solomon both claiming a baby was theirs he said okay well split the baby in half and you can each have half.

[00:31:18] And then one of the women said no no no don't do that I don't want the baby killed and the one who showed compassion was gifted the baby. That other woman's just nuts man. Yeah she was that like.

[00:31:32] He Solomon had 700 wives not sure what that means but it was interesting. And then lastly the kingdom that he really united stabilized and built was torn into during the reign of his son Rahubo. So it's all sort of playing out.

[00:31:55] So but a couple other little things about Solomon he starts off by saying some people find it very reassuring to hear their own voice which I thought would actually be really disturbing. Yeah who would find that I can think of maybe one person. Right.

[00:32:12] But it kind of goes back to that concept early in Westworld of the host hearing a voice in their own mind and beginning to hear their own voice instead of that of their creator. So I thought that was an interesting analogy.

[00:32:26] And then I really was interested in and I know we'll find out presumably but what is the strategy that John me had Solomon cooking up. We're given to assume it leads to the end of mankind I guess.

[00:32:42] I kind of assume that any AI that powerful might become self aware and want to take over the world for its own species itself. And that seems to be why this electromagnetic pulse is present to restrain it.

[00:32:57] It always seemed a bit unclear as to exactly why Sirach decided to take his brother out of commission and now we found out exactly how he's in suspended animation.

[00:33:09] But my impression after this episode was that the reason he did that is because his brother decided no I don't like this idea of keeping everyone in suspended animation.

[00:33:23] And so I'm going to have a strategy that does exactly what Dolores at least says she's trying to do rebels against that. And so Sirach decided no that won't do because that's going to lead to the end of humanity. So I'm taking you off the board. Yeah.

[00:33:43] And why do you think Sirach let Solomon continue to exist? I don't know. I was kind of wondering about that. Yeah, that was sort of left mysterious. Yeah. Well, my number three is about Solomon too.

[00:33:57] And I think it was definitely one of my favorite parts just something about an AI talking to you and the voice was really appealing, I guess. Yeah.

[00:34:09] And the way it spoke and I definitely thought about how but I think that's just another homage in a season full of them. Right? Yeah, I think how from 2001 for sure is it was a call out.

[00:34:25] You know an AI and incredibly polished sophisticated AI to whom too much was entrusted and then it goes insanely wrong. Right. But speaks calmly in the process. Yes. There were some things I was kind of dubious about.

[00:34:44] Dolores says that Solomon ran maybe you can help me with this but Solomon ran so many projections that it developed anomalies went schizophrenic like Sirach's brothers on me. But when they describe what Solomon does, it sounds like the exact same thing as Rahoboam.

[00:35:02] It runs tons of projections and you know just like Rahoboam Solomon decided that the idea was to plan everything out for everyone. And then when people don't cooperate, try to reprogram them and then if that doesn't work, you put them in deep freeze.

[00:35:20] I mean it's the same thing isn't it? Yeah. I don't can't tell enough to know what the difference is. And I think we're not going to know that until we find out what this strategy is. Okay.

[00:35:32] Speaking of the strategy, I think it's always kind of tricky in sci-fi when someone has to convince an AI or a computer to do something else than what it intended on doing.

[00:35:43] And so Dolores is trying to convince Solomon to go off that plan that it seems to share with Rahoboam about controlling society and dealing with the outliers.

[00:35:55] And so the way that she does that, she tells it you know both you and John Me know that your plan doesn't work. And Solomon thinks that the current plan is fine.

[00:36:09] But Dolores convinces him to come up with a plan for humans to rebel by saying you haven't protected any of these people. Meaning the outliers there. And also if your master succeeds, my kind won't exist anymore. Dolores is kind.

[00:36:25] Is it truly a just world in which intelligence is reserved for only humans? But that assumes that Solomon cares about a just world and it seems clear that it hasn't before now. It's not just to manipulate everybody into doing what you want against their will.

[00:36:41] And then also there's only like five or six hosts. So is it worth protecting them at the risk of everyone else on the planet dying?

[00:36:50] And even I don't know how many outliers there are, but is it as simple as someone saying hey these guys here aren't protected and then Solomon goes oh yeah good point let's switch it up.

[00:37:00] Doesn't Solomon think that if the outliers are free then humans will eventually all kill themselves. So it just seemed a bit easy that she could convince it so quickly like that. No I totally agree.

[00:37:12] And this is the way I've sort of been looking at these giant AIs the whole year. Okay, if the hosts were able to become self-aware, if they're sophisticated enough to develop consciousness, well Rahoboam and Solomon are way, way orders of magnitude more sophisticated than a host.

[00:37:37] That was Solomon's point to do this too. Yes, yes. You see how big my brain is? Yeah, so I mean I would think whatever Solomon is doing is whatever Solomon has decided to do and it might be for the good of its own species.

[00:37:52] Does Solomon care about human beings at this point? Does it have emotions? All that is a little unclear. But I agree I don't think Dolores could convince it to do anything. Whatever it's doing it's decided to do.

[00:38:06] I hope so because if the intention was exactly what we saw that she convinced it, it just seems a little thin to me or a lot thin. Yeah totally agree. Okay what's your number two? So my number two is the man in white.

[00:38:24] The formerly the man in black formerly William. I actually enjoyed seeing that he sort of reached clarity at last.

[00:38:32] He says his purpose is to eradicate his original sin the one stain that couldn't be erased which was his role in the creation of the hosts and I thought that was pretty interesting because it really has been glossed over.

[00:38:47] We think of Robert Ford and Arnold to various degrees as the creators of the hosts. But really without William coming in convincing James Dulles to invest in the park and get all these sort of side businesses going that he did it wouldn't have been able to happen.

[00:39:04] The park was dead before he came along. And also those two guys are dead so they can't do anything about it. Right. It turns out that he was selling biometric data to Sirach to assist essentially in the outliers program.

[00:39:22] You know however much he knew or didn't know about it he didn't care. His open threat in this episode is to kill Bernard Stubbs and all the hosts but if they're working against Dolores that doesn't seem like a great strategy.

[00:39:37] He was pretty strategic when he was the man in black. So maybe he's just moved past complicated strategy at this point but that kind of gave me pause. Yeah maybe that'll be their point in the next episode you know.

[00:39:53] Yeah but he couldn't care less about the suffering of humanity the destruction society is dissolving around him he doesn't care everyone he ever loved is gone.

[00:40:04] He's just like a worse guy than ever and I kind of like that the show is so complicated it was nice just to have the simplicity. Yeah I'm glad we got to know right away to what he meant when he said he was the good guy last time.

[00:40:19] Some interesting things about him Bernard says according to the record that he pulled up William is already dead and I thought what does that mean he's host I knew it but then his file says you know

[00:40:33] he's reconditioning unsuccessful declaring patient deceased so I think this just means that he is reconditioning has been declared unsuccessful based on what we saw last week and so I think he was going to be put into deep freeze like the others and everyone the public would think he was dead.

[00:40:51] Right and one interesting thing about that that touches back on the subject we were just talking about. Because it seems like it's part of Sirach's plan to reanimate these people once he has the biometric ability to be able to do it to edit them.

[00:41:08] Yeah so there must be a strategy for that because that seems disruptive like we're going to take these however many people it is who are declared dead how are you going to reintegrate them or are you going to reanimate them but keep them sequestered forever it's the whole thing is question right.

[00:41:28] Right in a very twisted way it's you know you could think well at least he's not just burning them all up like he's trying to figure out a way to keep him viable. Well he cares about his brother at least it seems like.

[00:41:43] Yeah but you know there's all these other people too and even Solomon says I can think of much worse fates I've seen many or something like that but yeah that's a good point like right if your dead brother shows up there's going to have to be a good reason for it.

[00:41:55] But I would think the man in white could be actually and Karen I were laughing about this because it was so kind of ridiculous where the man in white was like you better kill me now or I'm going to kill you later.

[00:42:09] And then Bernard's like we may need him later like no reason was given what I know why they didn't just kill him.

[00:42:18] But it seems to me like he could actually be useful I mean even if he doesn't have the controlling share of Delos anymore he's a pretty rich guy with a lot of knowledge and connections. He seems like he could be useful for something.

[00:42:31] Yeah you got away that against he just said he's going to kill us. But it does I mean he said I'm the good guy last week and now you know it's because he decided he's going to finish off all these hosts.

[00:42:44] And when you think about it that actually does seem reasonable that you know if you helped build a bunch of robots that are now planning to overthrow the world and kill all humans that you would kind of be the good guy if you wanted to get rid of them.

[00:42:58] Yeah it makes sense. It does. All right and I just one last thing about him is I like that exchange with Stubbs where he said aren't you pointing that thing at the wrong person Stubbs.

[00:43:13] He goes I guess I stick with my own kind you're shitting me fucking forward and then later he's all don't lecture me you fucking can opener. That was a great line.

[00:43:25] Okay my number two is some things on Dolores's enemies which is kind of my way of throwing a bunch of things in that I couldn't figure out how to fit into one category. But we see for one that shall or us has turned against Dolores prime.

[00:43:45] She tells Satoh Dolores that Dolores plan is for them all to die so she's just like they don't she doesn't care about any of us were just fodder for them.

[00:43:53] And that made me wonder if shall or us thinks that Dolores prime ordered that hit on her family did you think about that. I thought that was what it meant. And. I found that a little questionable because Sirach was definitely out to kill her at that point.

[00:44:12] Yeah so it seemed to me like it could just as well have been him. But she definitely seems to feel like it is part of Dolores's plan to have all her copies wiped out.

[00:44:24] Yeah or even if it's not that she might still just think well you know she's putting in us in these situations where Sirach is just going to kill us and there's you know she's not really taking care of that.

[00:44:35] And also she had changed she become very attached to her own family which he saw killed.

[00:44:41] Yeah yeah so I mean I'm just saying even if Dolores even if she doesn't think Dolores did that directly she still thinks that Dolores put her in a situation where that was going to happen. Right you know.

[00:44:54] And so she says she's now decided to streamline which I which means feel the all the other Delora because she leaked Satos location to Clementine who we see and.

[00:45:08] People were saying that Shaloris wasn't charred from being burned last week but it was a really dark shot and I did think that her skin looks like it had been through something and maybe it was in the process of a healing or something.

[00:45:23] I don't know did I not see that correctly? Did she look normal to you?

[00:45:28] I thought that she did not look necessarily normal but she didn't look like the way she looked last week so I thought that was left mysterious like did she get access to technology to rebuild herself?

[00:45:41] Did she repair herself somewhat somehow or was that just a representation of her? Right yeah it brought up questions like that.

[00:45:53] We've been talking a lot about Musashi Dolores being in Jakarta we see that and in episode five for listeners we learned that there were connections between Jakarta Berlin Los Angeles and San Francisco and we knew that Dolora were in three of those places so the fourth one that we don't know about yet is Berlin but I assume we're going to find out about that next week.

[00:46:16] We see Clementine and then you were also right that Maeve's other ally was I don't know how to say this, Hanarayo the showgun world version of Armistice who killed Sato.

[00:46:31] I was kind of surprised that they were actually successful in doing that but I guess if you want something right you got to have someone else do it because Maeve this was a win for Maeve but she wasn't personally there.

[00:46:44] Right she hasn't had many wins and then I was going to talk about Dolores and Maeve but do you have that on your list? I do but go ahead.

[00:46:54] Well the little drone thing that Dolores sent in to target like seven or eight guys and then Dolores shoots them with her super gun that somehow goes inside buildings. This was a Karen complaint also she's like how did that work they were inside a building.

[00:47:12] Well maybe she had line of sight or maybe they're smart bullets I don't know I'm apologizing for the writers.

[00:47:18] And the drone itself seemed to go right through a window but it wasn't clear and then she and Caleb after just doing that quick thing can go right to Solomon and I totally thought of you because you always mentioned how Serox defenses aren't that great.

[00:47:35] And then of course he has no other option but to send in Maeve because that's what sort of the theme of the season. Maeve is the only thing that can help here.

[00:47:44] No I mean that whole part of this season has been I'll give it to them this is how a lot of the plot has had to take place but that part's been ludicrous in my opinion.

[00:47:54] Like there's this unbelievably powerful AI that could has the potential to destroy the world it is so dangerous. There has to be this giant EMP next to it and all these suspended animation people are there and all this stuff and this whole complex is guarded by six guys.

[00:48:15] It's like come on. It's just ridiculous. And the fight was cool I especially was shocked by Dolores getting her arm shot off by a drone although I thought it should have probably aimed for her head but it was pretty shocking that scene. That drone shot like a stormtrooper.

[00:48:35] Had a hard time. A little more accurate but yeah it could have been better.

[00:48:41] But you know I can't help but think about it's unrealistic that Maeve is so set on killing Dolores and I went back and forth on it because one of the Dolores I killed Hector and that's a big deal.

[00:48:55] And you know maybe she's right that she can't trust Dolores to have control of the valley beyond.

[00:49:06] And so you can make a case for why they're fighting but you kind of have to work at it which is not ideal in my opinion for being invested in this fight as a viewer. You know. No I totally agree with that.

[00:49:22] So Dolores has asked Maeve a couple times why in the world would you be working with this guy who's trying to destroy our kind. And she can't answer the question. I know.

[00:49:34] I know she's pissed at Dolores for various reasons including killing Hector but it doesn't really make sense.

[00:49:44] I mean the only thing is she knows that Dolores doesn't mind sacrificing her own kind in her goals and the most important thing for Maeve is to get to go to the valley beyond to be with her daughter.

[00:49:59] So she doesn't trust Dolores to have access or control access to that or control over it. So I can understand why and and Sarac kind of has his thumb over her because well actually does he still I guess he just has control over her.

[00:50:17] And he's saying that he can get her access to that but it still feels like she should be highly resentful of him not you know and maybe take any chance. To figure out how to overcome that but I don't see that in her.

[00:50:33] No as you said earlier it's a little thin. Yeah a little bit. But what did you think of the interaction in the fight and everything aside from that? I thought the fight was a lot of fun. There were some I thought clear call outs in the fight.

[00:50:48] First of all it was reminiscent. This show calls back to the Terminator more than anything else. This season.

[00:50:56] So it was yeah it was kind of like Terminator the T-101 fighting in the T-1000 in Terminator 2 or in like Terminator 3 the two Terminators fighting each other where they're you know stronger than human beings.

[00:51:11] And then the helicopter was reminiscent of a Terminator weapon also like the helicopter drones from Skynet the helicopter that Maeve brought in with her.

[00:51:22] And then I read this is Joanna Robinson from Vanity Ferris said the Dolores versus Maeve fight the part that's in the kitchen as a call out to Jurassic Park the Raptors fighting in the kitchen which made me laugh. That was pretty good.

[00:51:37] But I mean I thought it was good. I didn't think it was like amazing. It was fun and good. That exact to fight would play a lot better if it was so clear why they were fighting each other.

[00:51:52] You know that's important just the emotional context of something right that's what I think. Right it was sort of spectacle. Yeah exactly yeah it just comes off as spectacle.

[00:52:03] And then the whole EMP thing at the end where Dolores they Caleb had mentioned oh it's military grade EMP which is an electromagnetic magnetic pulse and it's there in case so Solomon doesn't escape.

[00:52:20] So that's why it's there apparently but Dolores goes over and pushes the button which turns off all the electronics in the area which include her and Maeve and Solomon.

[00:52:32] And you know I'm like well why didn't they use that in season two when they were going in and taking out all the hosts. I don't know maybe it's not exactly we're not seeing exactly what we think we're seeing but I wasn't sure what to think about that.

[00:52:47] Well I mean an EMP can either fry or disable electronics. I think we're gonna assume it just disabled Maeve and Dolores I don't think they just killed the main characters. Probably wouldn't imagine that it would erase their pearls. Just a temporary setback.

[00:53:04] Yeah but other questions I had were what about all the suspended animation people whose electronics were just turned off so did they she just kill all them.

[00:53:15] Possibly and also didn't Solomon just hand over to Caleb a strategy on like a thumb drive like it could have erased that too. Oops. Yeah I mean Dolores that was kind of important to Dolores I'm presuming it didn't erase it. Yeah.

[00:53:33] I did like that Solomon said I must warn you right as that happened. I must warn you. Right. So that's all I had for that what's your number one. You talked about a lot of stuff that I had left but so I'll try to pick a couple things.

[00:53:54] So one going back to Musashi at the very beginning of this episode where he's basically saying to is one of his Yakuza lieutenants deliver this briefcase and if you fail don't return like a very suspicious important briefcase.

[00:54:11] What was happening there so let's go back to I think we settled on earlier in the season that that Dolores brought out of Westworld for what we have now determined were Dolores pearls. And a Bernard Pearl. Yeah.

[00:54:30] But so going back to what you brought up there was a reference by one of Sirach's lieutenants a couple few weeks ago. They found a connect between encrypted devices in Jakarta Berlin San Francisco and Los Angeles. So Jakarta is Musashi turns out to be San Francisco is Charlotte.

[00:54:50] LA was Connells and Dolores she was also an LA. So who or what is in Berlin and is that another Dolores pearl Teddy. That's the go to answer. So I think we're going to find out next week. Yeah.

[00:55:14] But if it's connected to all those other things all those other things are Dolorei. Yes. Yeah. So that was interesting. The other one that I thought was interesting and a little mysterious was Stubbs. He pretty quickly jumped in and took over the research in the reeducation center.

[00:55:35] And then he found Caleb's information like super immediately. And he kind of explained it away with like hey I was the security guy in Westworld this is kind of my thing.

[00:55:46] But it made me wonder like what does he know maybe does he have a purpose apart from Bernard's. I know he had tried to kill himself supposedly in Westworld so that's a weird sort of offshoot of this.

[00:55:58] But remember Sirach had referenced at one point having maybe a second mole inside Delos that was not Charlotte. So it all makes me wonder if there's more to Stubbs than meets the eye. Yeah.

[00:56:12] I mean what they had said was Bernard was like maybe we can find some of these outliers that were successfully reeducated. And then he comes back with Caleb and says oh I think I found what you're looking for but it just happens to be this one guy.

[00:56:26] And he said you remember him. So I mean maybe that's why because they had seen him before at that whole like auction like basically prostitute auction thing that Liam was at. Right.

[00:56:39] They knew that he was with Dolores so maybe that was why he jumped out at Stubbs that oh look he's aligned himself with Dolores. I guess it was a little bit of a leap to make. Yeah.

[00:56:52] And then the other one I was going to mention about all these folks who where everybody is in this episode is I think to me we're sort of back to the same problem a little bit that we were having a couple weeks ago.

[00:57:08] Which is what team are we rooting for here. So Dolores is a murderous android just trying to kill everyone like on both sides. Man in black is just an asshole. I mean there's no other way to say it.

[00:57:22] Caleb you know we're hinting at some sympathetic things but he's not super sympathetic at this point. Maeve's motivations are sort of suspect and she's become one note and violent. And plus she's not that inspiring sometimes. Right.

[00:57:40] And so that still leaves us with Bernard and he's a character you definitely want to like but his own purpose and motivation is unclear. Like why is he so bad on saving humanity from Dolores. That's not super clear either. At least to me.

[00:58:00] I mean he his thing has always been trying to save as many people as he can on both sides that he cares about the humans and the hosts. Right.

[00:58:11] But it's kind of become clear at this point that there may not be any coexistence like all the strategies on both sides seem to be exclusive of coexistence. So maybe he has a different idea but we don't know what that is.

[00:58:25] I mean I think it would be better if there was a clear person to root for but on the other hand a I kind of like it when you can make an argument for both sides because it makes you think more.

[00:58:38] But that doesn't solve the problem of just sort of not feeling that inspired by anyone you know like and we're like any of them. But also one thing I kind of like about this show is I really do feel like Jonathan Nolan is just this huge misanthropic person.

[00:58:55] Oh my God. Yes. I kind of like to revel in the darkness of it you know. Yeah.

[00:59:02] I wouldn't want every show to be like that but for Westworld it's I mean I have that side to myself too like it's all fucked so you get to kind of revel around in a sci-fi version of that for a little while.

[00:59:13] Most people you could say this guy has a dim view of humanity but he hasn't limited himself to that. Right.

[00:59:23] My number one is more about how about you know questions about how much of this is a simulation I still wonder if next week we're going to get some revelations about this season that make us go back and rethink everything in the grand tradition of Westworld as they've done so far

[00:59:42] every time. I still think we're seeing some simulation shenanigans possibly for one thing you know last week I mentioned we saw I think it was last week we saw Sirac in the simulated valley beyond with Maeve last week and I just sort of wrote that off.

[01:00:01] I don't know maybe has a technological way to do that but we've also seen him hologram into a bunch of things and he's the only one we've seen use this hologram technology and I wonder if maybe it's not a hologram maybe he's in a simulated world that we've been watching

[01:00:19] and that's why he was able to go into the valley beyond and that's why he's able to appear and disappear from places everywhere.

[01:00:28] Yeah so Karen and I had this disagreement last night because she said essentially the same thing maybe that maybe he is just a projection of the system at this point. Yeah I'm wondering that of Rahul Boehm.

[01:00:42] But if so then the show has been deceiving us in what I would say is not a clever or fair way because we've seen his sort of frustration and angry reactions from the locations he's projecting the hologram from and I don't think that would really make sense in the scenario where the projection is all he is.

[01:01:07] In his plane up above. Yeah and in his office at Delos when he was going through the whole thing with Charlotte.

[01:01:16] You know we've seen that a few times like sort of the real guy reacting so okay that could be even further regression of the simulation but I don't think that makes a lot of sense.

[01:01:27] Well what about when Bernard comes upon Ford in the bar listening to piano music or whatever he was doing is that not similar. I don't think it's not similar to me. Okay that's a real question I don't know.

[01:01:46] Yeah because in the Sarac cases we see him projecting himself for a reason like either he is an interlocation or he wants to do something without risking himself and I think that makes sense but I can't think of any reason they would then you know sort of jump back to the real guy being upset that his plan failed or something didn't work.

[01:02:12] You know what purpose would that serve?

[01:02:15] I still think it's and maybe you just think it's not fair but I think it's a possibility that he's kind of like Ford in that when Bernard found him in the cradle and maybe he's kind of like a consciousness inside a simulated world.

[01:02:33] But yeah maybe they showed him in these situations that are kind of manipulative. I mean that would make his showing up at Delos that would make all that would make all that a simulation right? Yeah that happened. Yeah I don't know. A couple other things.

[01:02:57] So Solomon says to Caleb I just love the way he talks to him in this moment. He says you're here in this moment which means this is variant 47.136.x in which both you subject you four five four dot one Nichols comma Caleb and I are still viable.

[01:03:17] There are still variables leading to slightly different outcomes however if this is indeed now and we are indeed here. That's very western.

[01:03:27] Yeah and they had sort of given a hint to that explanation by saying that Caleb's brother Jean-Mierre was schizophrenic and that had bled over into Solomon so it sounds very schizophrenic.

[01:03:41] It sounds like he's run a bunch of scenarios and he looks at all of them as if they're real parallel realities just like this reality they're all on the same level to him.

[01:03:51] But it could also mean that as he's talking to Caleb they're in just another one of those projections simulated projection. That's actually very Dr. Manhattan that he's living all the outcomes simultaneously.

[01:04:07] It is but if that is what he's doing then it would make more sense that they were all simulated outcomes you know including the one that we're watching right now.

[01:04:15] And then Caleb says what happened to Francis is he here too Solomon says no that is not the variation we're on. So he sees all the projections as the same as reality but then my question is maybe what we're seeing is just another projection.

[01:04:33] And then the last thing is we see the Surak pre-programmed hologram come up at the end in front of Dolores and I think Caleb saying I wish I could be there for you Jean-Mierre but the man I was no longer exists.

[01:04:47] So at face value this is just Dolores and Caleb seeing a recording that was intended to be shown far in the future after Surak dies but maybe you know Karen's right that he's already dead and we're just seeing a projection from Rehoboam this whole time.

[01:05:04] Yep it could be. Hopefully we'll get a lot of answers to all this stuff next week and they'll move on to the next phase. They did wrap up the first two seasons in the finale so I hope they do this one too. Absolutely. Don't leave us hanging. Please.

[01:05:23] Okay any notes? I've gone through most of those actually in the course of what we were talking about.

[01:05:29] I did love the billboard that said from lab to slab which was sort of yeah which was their version of farm to table but now it's like a plus from lab to slab. I like the impossible burger so we're essentially there already now. I like it too.

[01:05:48] Yeah it doesn't seem like crazy future. More than I used to be. Not 100% but pretty close. Yeah. And I think that's it. I really liked that Caleb figured out who Dolores is and they didn't make that big of a deal out of it.

[01:06:11] He says you know they're on their horseback out in the wide open and he says never been out this far. It's so empty. She says it's perfect like home and he goes like Westworld you mean massacre. Did you kill all those people?

[01:06:25] I just like that they kind of slid that in there. Yeah. It was a surprise.

[01:06:32] Neither of us mentioned this but last week the show made us think that Shaloris took Williams or injected something into Williams so that they could track him to the facility and soon after that.

[01:06:47] And then we found out that Shaloris knew that they'd send Williams blood to that lab. Yeah it turned out to be to infiltrate the system. Right. Computer data that would allow them to figure out about the Sonora facility. Yeah. But he wasn't actually there. He's not important.

[01:07:06] They didn't even know that. They can find this place. Same thing with Bernard and William. I mean I'm still not exactly clear. I think they decided to go to that facility because Martin Connells sent them on that track.

[01:07:22] But last week it made it seem like he was they were there to save William but it turns out I don't think they even cared about that. Heck of a coincidence though. Yeah. And then last let's see.

[01:07:34] I liked that whole scene with Dolores and Caleb on horseback and her saying I lived in hell but there was beauty in it which mirrors her saying in season one some people choose to save William.

[01:07:45] And that's one really cool thing that this show does is just has echoes of itself all the time and I think it does it really well. And I was just glad to see her on a horse. That was kind of nice.

[01:07:58] Yeah there's a lot of callbacks to it. I mean I'm not sure if it's because it's just a little bit of a story but it's just a little bit of a story.

[01:08:06] I think it does it really well and I was just glad to see her on a horse. That was kind of nice. Yeah there's a lot of callbacks to earlier things and echoes. And different sort of permutations of things. Yep.

[01:08:22] All right that is it we'll take a little break. There's more to come. Stay with us. Southern crawls on the belly of God Southern falls on its face in the night with me It grows as old as the sea Deep where the fishes are You

[01:09:01] One quick news item this week. Westworld has been renewed for a fourth season on HBO. There's no information yet as far as I could see about when it will premiere.

[01:09:13] Of course everything's kind of up in the air right now but they've gotten the green light for a fourth season. The Hollywood reporter says quote the renewal comes as little surprise as Westworld remains a key piece in HBO scripted

[01:09:25] original's lineup while season three returned down 1.7 million total viewers including 901,000 linear versus 2.05 million of the latter in season two. The renewal per sources was part of Joy and Nolan's larger payout as part of their nine figure overall deal the duo signed with

[01:09:45] Amazon last year while the married showrunners will create new projects for Amazon. The deal included upfront payment for their services as showrunners on Westworld for what sources say could be up to season six. That's interesting.

[01:10:00] Is I guess Amazon is that that what I just read didn't totally make sense to me because I thought Amazon and HBO were two different things but I don't know maybe there's some overall deal. Well and what I was saying was interesting was the season six part.

[01:10:17] Right right. I don't know can you keep this show going for three more seasons? I would assume that if they think they can keep it up for three more seasons then they have a pretty strong outline for how it's going to change over those seasons.

[01:10:32] Yeah it would have to definitely take some new directions again. Yeah absolutely so that's it for the news I mean I'm glad that it's renewed for season four for sure because it sure

[01:10:42] as hell ain't going to wrap up in one more episode I wouldn't think so that's cool. And it's still a great show for as much as I know I've been less effusive in my praise of it this season but it's still really good.

[01:10:56] Yeah I feel the same absolutely. All right let's get in some listener feedback. Okay grippy Bob Dabalino says constantly seems like the writers didn't know what to do once Dolores was out of Westworld. Confusing plot and balanced episodes deity worship of Aaron Paul which I still don't get.

[01:11:15] Her plan was actually as simple as pinky in the brain try to take over the world. Unlike seasons one and two where I was more untested with every episode season three fizzled and failed to deliver for me would have preferred Bruce Campbell over Aaron Paul.

[01:11:33] Hashtag bring back Bruce Campbell. That might not might be that is the best letter we've got this year. Yeah, be on X Vargas says what did I just watch removes glasses. Michael Darwin doesn't look like anything to me.

[01:11:53] Yeah there people were a little harsh on it this time Tracy Walker says it was good to get Caleb's backstory although I think it was pretty much telegraphed what actually happened before. It was but we didn't know the details but I hear where you coming from for sure.

[01:12:08] I don't like Dolores and may fighting I need mommy and daddy to kiss and make up in general I'm finding this less interesting still than season one.

[01:12:16] I enjoyed the psychology of why people behave the way they do and the awakening of the host I know me too I thought about that that's something we're really missing we're moving on to other themes.

[01:12:25] I but I also appreciate when a show doesn't stick to the same theme for too long to like walking dead did for many years this season I have the same problem I have with a lot of science fiction and superhero stories.

[01:12:38] There can always be another Deus Ex Machina to save someone previously thought dead it's hard to really get attached to what happens to a character when they can just grow a new arm or get a new body.

[01:12:50] I'm actually glad to see these fans who are unhappy with aspects of the show because I always kind of feel like I'm killing the buzz for people if we're critical about something but it seems like a lot of the fans are feeling some the same thing yeah.

[01:13:05] Steve Bar says don't bring a knife to a drone fight. Well she brought a knife and a helicopter to be fair.

[01:13:13] Michael Darwin again says Maeve gets beat again did her fight with the Laura serve any purpose I would like them to have a reason to fight beyond them needing to.

[01:13:24] I'd say she came out on the upper hand there actually except for that whole EMP thing at the end yeah but she always loses at the last moment.

[01:13:33] Maeve's character was absolutely at her thinnest this episode Dolores plan is to have a human wipe out humanity because she's poetic Solomon was kept up and running because.

[01:13:44] Question mark the series was has a habit of pulling things together in the final episode and that may change how we understand what we've seen so far so I'm not giving up hope but I have less faith than I did a week ago.

[01:13:55] On the good side nice to see Clem and Hanara I.O. again I'm guessing Maeve pulled in Hanara I.O. instead of Armacist because someone who looks Asian would better blend in when going after Musashi slash Dolores.

[01:14:09] And they took Musashi's head so I'm betting we see another interrogation scene next week interesting.

[01:14:17] I'm also enticed by Shaloros clearly having enough of Dolores primes BS her own ambition will surely be as much a fly in the ointment as Dolores has been for Sirach we may be moving beyond a simple humans versus AI battle in season four.

[01:14:32] Also the fact that William tells Bernard he's not Arnold means Bernard is totally Arnold. That's a good point. I didn't quite think of that.

[01:14:42] Lastly some signage I'm sure you notice the from lab to slab sign in the final William scene but did you see that as Caleb began to remember his real history the graffiti on the buildings went from being Cyrillic to English yeah that was that was awesome. Yep.

[01:14:58] I assume that was all CG. Yeah. Jenny quo. Hi Jenny. I know her. Why did I not like the latest episode of why did not like the latest episode of Westworld.

[01:15:10] The show has already had so many unbelievable elements and plot holes that you could do a pitch meeting for every single episode. But somehow the visuals and world building was cool enough to keep going with it but this episode finally did the unexcusable.

[01:15:24] It had utterly predictable and ridiculous visuals and world building. The hot women in leather suits fighting the sleeping bodies in warehouse Caleb suddenly becoming a princess. What's a princess what I call the ordinary person discovered to be ultra special.

[01:15:39] The how like computer the completely incomprehensible future affecting powers of it. The combination of all the above with the complete seriousness of them just made it ridiculous like in the movie forgetting Sarah Marshall where you find out the actresses in an action drama her show about psychic veterinarians.

[01:15:58] This one was supposed to be a joke. This was so bad it was like if eighth graders were given five million dollars to make an episode. She didn't like it. You think she didn't like it.

[01:16:13] I told her if I was going to include this that she would have to promise to listen to the podcast because I thought maybe she might. Appreciate the depth that we bring to this show.

[01:16:25] So we'll see what happens or at least she has to take her medicine one hour and 45 minutes worth. Exactly. Lindsay Schlich says hi Jason and David for me this episode was a lot of boring book ended by great scenes.

[01:16:40] I love the opening scene in the restaurant then we end up in a repeating flashbacks of Caleb that were interesting in the final reveal but were annoying to me on repeat for half the episode. Yeah I can see that.

[01:16:51] The storyline with a man in black also isn't doing it for me the idea that his awful character could be redeemed and safe humanity is repulsive and absolutely has me rooting for Dolores.

[01:17:01] The all knowing supercomputer brain revealing everything was weak storytelling for me and took way too long. It started to pick back up for me with the reveal of the thousands of sleeping outliers. I really like that too possible rebel army for Caleb and Dolores.

[01:17:17] Dolores and Maeve kicking ass to close out the episode was fantastic and it looks like we get more of the same next week.

[01:17:24] I'm still confused on one point last week I thought it was Dolores who blew up Charlotte's family everyone said no it was Serax men if this is true why did Charlotte call Sato Dolores.

[01:17:37] Why did she ask if he was surprised and stated Dolores prime wanted them all dead and why does it seem she was working with Clementine and samurai world armistice. And therefore Maeve what am I missing can't believe next week is the finale.

[01:17:53] Yeah I think either she thinks that Dolores did that hit and maybe she did or maybe she didn't or as I was saying earlier in the episode maybe she's just upset that she feels like she's just considered collateral damage and Dolores's war where Dolores will put her in a position where Serax men will kill her family.

[01:18:12] I'm just going to say it I think Lindsay is right and we were wrong. It could be yeah.

[01:18:18] And James Aducci says I was very impressed with David's call back to dagger of the mind last week thank you I'm glad somebody was that was serious nerding out so appreciate that.

[01:18:30] Then we have a call from Steve Brown no we don't have a call from Steve Brown Steve what what happened he spent his call with us on Saturday or whatever that. All right that is our show thank you for listening everybody appreciate it.

[01:18:56] If you want to write in a recorded message and send it in you can email us at Westworld at podcast.com. We also put up a post for each week's episode on our Facebook page at facebook.com slash house podcast.

[01:19:10] And be sure to check out the other podcasts at podcast.com right now that's just walking deadcast but I think there might be some things coming from strange indeed. I heard Rima talking about it next episode of this podcast Westworld season three episode eight crisis theory.

[01:19:29] And also I put up a post on our Facebook page asking what you guys would like House podcast to cover next a few of you said Ozark which I've actually been getting into lately so that's a possibility but if you have any other thoughts you know if you have thoughts about that show or any others you think House podcast to cover.

[01:19:52] Let us know you can send that you can comment on Facebook or send an email it to us. All right that's our show thanks for listening what happened to Karen is she coming on next week. No that is not variation.