44. FROM Season 2 recap w/ Bob Mann : Characters, Plots, Theories, and More!

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Speaker 1: Hi there, my name is Hannah Cheromey.

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This is the What is Fromcast podcast on the podcastica

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network.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the show.

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My name is Alex and we have our special guest.

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that needs no introduction, but we're going to introduce him

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anyways.

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You know him as Frank.

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We all know him as Bob Bob man.

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Thank you so much for joining us.

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What a time.

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Speaker 1: What a time to be alive.

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I'm telling you who season two.

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Speaker 3: I'm telling you, I know we had to do a lot to pull

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you away from Canada Day.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy.

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Speaker 4: Is that what today is ?

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Speaker 1: That was yesterday.

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It was yesterday, but we celebrate well into October.

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Okay, here in Canada, we just don't, we don't stop.

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Speaker 3: It's just, every day is Canada Day.

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Speaker 1: We need a month and a half to recover.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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I have a very good friend that lives in Quebec and I keep

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telling her you guys are going to take us over with Zamboni

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technology, It's all about the Zamboni technology.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as we slowly and methodically make our way

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across the border in our Zambonis.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and for those of you that are watching

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the show, thank you so much, and the fans, and if you'd like to

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subscribe to our channel, that would be even better.

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Right down there or there, i don't know, whatever it is, and

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it is Sunday, so that means it is from day and we are talking

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from.

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The show has stopped or isn't hiatus for a couple of months or

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so, as we like to, as the kids like to say, and but we're still

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going, we're still going.

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Just a couple of little things.

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If you haven't checked out our merch shop, you can get these

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nice from Lee shirts.

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I know Bob is in for at least 10 for all of his family, easily

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and easily, and you can look at the show notes or check out

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that link right there.

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And so, bob, what is your first thoughts of this season?

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Speaker 1: My first thoughts I was well, i mean, i guess it

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depends on what perspective I'm coming at it from, because, as

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an actor who was on the show and who knows, you know, knows a

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number of people still involved and gets to see people, it was a

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thrill to see some people come back after.

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You know it was.

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It was really cool to see Lisa Ryder, you know pop up.

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Yeah, she's great Yeah you know, like you kind of hope you get

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to see her again.

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And then the buddy, reid Price, who's Tom the bartender,

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getting to see him, unceremoniously dispatched but

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then get to pop up again.

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You know the shining style, yeah, that was.

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That was pretty cool.

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And seeing and also getting to see some of the fans kind of

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react to that, that was fun, of course.

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And then Sean Majumdar getting to see him, and that was a lot

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of fun.

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And the other thing I really loved, i will say and this isn't

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has nothing to do with the plot or anything like that but I

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really loved seeing how much extra meat and how much extra

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time people got.

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I loved seeing Scott McCord.

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I think is just a is a really gifted performer and getting to

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see him with extra stuff to chew on was a lot of fun.

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I thought he had some cool, cool moments and some weighty

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bits.

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I thought Ricky, ricky, he had some cool little cool little

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things to do and some some interesting scenes.

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And and here I just thought people had some interesting

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acting that they had to.

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They had to do a little bit more weighty.

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And and you know my pal Nathan Simmons, who I've known for

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forever, who's just a lovely and gifted actor who here in

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Halifax he you know getting to see the work that he did as

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Elgin, i thought was really really neat to.

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I wish that.

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I wish that Phoebe Rex had been able to stick around a little

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bit longer.

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She played Sarah who got the spike in the head.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you right now I think they, i think

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they missed the mark with her.

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I really think they missed the mark because she and we had her

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on the show.

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I don't know if you're aware of that.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's right.

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Speaker 3: She had an.

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You know, read the Facebook groups.

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For someone that was in one episode She was more memorable

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than people that were there for for multiple episodes.

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I mean, she had such a good impact and it would have been

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great to see someone like her and Julie kind of be friends and

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see where that could have taken off or something else with the

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plotline.

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I think that they missed the mark on that, but I love what

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they did.

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It's just that it's just kind of a shame.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, i mean I get it from a storytelling perspective

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.

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I mean the story is not charity , right, like a story is not

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something that you do for the purpose of giving characters to

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people or for just having a bunch of characters is a fun to

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look at, i mean people have.

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There has to be a purpose to everything.

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And if anything, i would say that the show probably affords a

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little bit more roadway and mileage to a number of

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characters who might show up and then be gone.

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You know a la walking dead, loss, stuff like that.

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Like you, you have opportunities for people to just kind of fly

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in and then go, and I appreciate that as a performer because it

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means a show like this is going to have something for.

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You know, i mean even I, even me I feel very fortunate and

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lucky to have been able to be one of the first ones kind of

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out to gate, out of the gate, to be on there and have a little

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arc, and you know it comes to an end and you know you can lament

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that, but the fact is you know there's, there's.

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There's only so much for everybody, and to get something

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is to get to the level in in and of itself and get to do it and

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get to say that you were, you were part of it.

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So I don't, you know, i don't.

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I don't lament that they would have had something.

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They only had meaningful opportunities and sort of plot

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service for each new character that came along, and they only

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had a room for a few.

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There's all.

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It's already a pretty stacked, oh yeah, yeah, it's already a

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pretty stacked roster, but but I think they've done.

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I think they've done great by everybody that they've brought

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in.

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I, you know, i thought there was some neat stuff, neat stuff

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that went down, yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely Cool .

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So what are we drinking tonight , guys?

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Speaker 3: Name it I got everything from Wawa.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I got all the everything that I need.

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Speaker 3: We weren't we?

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I didn't do a good job of marketing cocktails with with

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Bob man, but I know I showed up with my cocktail.

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Speaker 1: Is that?

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is that what you do on Sundays?

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you get yourself a nice drink and you watch the.

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You watch the show.

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Speaker 4: Well, no, i seldom drink, but I wanted to in honor

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of this.

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Yeah, i've been looking at the glass all day It's Sangria.

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Speaker 1: Oh you're and.

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Speaker 3: Bob, I leave some of our.

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Some of our listeners probably think that we do drink when we

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do this podcast.

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So it probably be better that we did drink, because I think

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you know it would validate some of the the talk, exactly,

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exactly.

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You know I do want to dive in a little bit.

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Let's just talk about, like, the first episode, the first

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couple of episodes.

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Yeah, and and Lizzie, please jump in whenever you're want to

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jump in.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I don't want to cut you off and I'll get a nasty

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email.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's fine, you can go right ahead.

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That, that's that said.

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You know, what I love about this show is they really started

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where they left off, like literally the moment they left

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off, they started, and it looks like this season was a couple of

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weeks, if it was that much, you know.

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Speaker 4: I think it was like a week.

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I don't even think it was longer than a week.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was really really strange on how quickly it

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was.

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You know, and so you're in.

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You were in this world for a little bit And what I find

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really frustrating as a viewer is you're in this world.

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Nothing is normal.

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Boyd has a conversation with his, with his son, and he's like

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I went through a tree and I came out there And and Ellis is

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like wait, let me get this straight.

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Now this is coming from the same person that has to lock his

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, his door up.

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His monsters come out with with a stone talisman, like how does

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that not like jive?

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I don't know, maybe I'm just wrong.

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Speaker 1: Um, it's a no, it's an interesting thing And I have

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given that a fair bit of thought .

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So one of the am I got to say, one of the neat experiences that

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I had with season two was my, my youngest son, who's just like

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graduating high school this year.

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He just graduated last year.

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He's all caught up.

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He watched all of it from the beginning and then we watched a

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little bit of it together.

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It was kind of fun getting to see.

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and then he, i had a, i had a sort of little side note.

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We filmed the second season of King and Pawn which had a bunch

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of stuff to it and you know read price who plays Tom, he was the

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lead and I brought my son with me to one of the shooting days

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just to just to kind of hang out .

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and he got to meet read.

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and it was interesting because I've known read for, you know, a

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long time and we've done a number of projects together.

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but my son had never met him So he was kind of star struck Like

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he'd watched, he'd watched a bunch of.

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it was his first time kind of meeting someone, yeah, he'd only

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whose face he'd only known from television.

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it was kind of a neat, a neat experience.

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but he and I shared an interesting thought about on

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that particular note, alex, and it was that you know I was sort

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of relating it to a show like lost, where it takes kind of a

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long time for the characters in the world to realize that or

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even into, or even accept that there are things going on that

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are out of this world.

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Yeah And so, and so naturally, you know, in that vein, in that

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context, when things are presented to them that appear to

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be out of this world, they they have a disbelief or they

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deflect from it or they have other explanations.

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some some are pretty quick to say, oh, there's weird stuff

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happening, and then other people say No, no, no, no, no, you're

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mistaken, it's just this and this and that, whereas in this

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show, i do think one of the challenges that the creators

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have sort of set up for themselves is that nobody,

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literally no person, should have any level of disbelief for any

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amount of crazy stuff that happens.

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I mean, don't you think like it ?

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just sort of like it, right, like it would?

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yeah.

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so when it gets presented, you know that, hey, there's a tree

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and if you fall into it you come out in maybe a different year

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or a different place.

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literally to a person, every single person should go yep,

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that checks out.

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I mean, i mean, what like?

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how much weirder can it get than it already is?

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Speaker 3: And first off a couple of things before I just

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want to a little side note folks , please put in the chat what

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you're drinking, because you know we don't like to drink

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alone and we certainly don't want Liz to drink alone.

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And there's all 12 of you, or 15 of you, whoever how many

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decide to show up.

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And when we do start talking far away trees and stuff like

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that, you need to be a little bit more loose with your.

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Speaker 4: Well, you need to buy into it a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, we're going to get into some

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lofty philosophical you know text here and go to some weird

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places.

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Yeah, yeah, you know, i agree, i agree with you.

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I think it is, and I don't, i mean I it's, i don't.

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I don't see things like that and think to myself, oh boy,

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have they ever messed up?

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I don't think that to myself.

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What I think is oh boy, does that ever illustrate how

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challenging it is to, on the one hand, have really bizarre

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things happening in a world that's already bizarre and have

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the characters behave in human ways that you know, like, like,

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really it does.

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It does kind of kind of like a character into some uncharted

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territory by having them accept through the gate that anything

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weird that happens can be believed, because then the you

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know, because that that gets in the way of things like conflict

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and things like you know, disbelief.

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I know I saw some of the memes and I think it's not, you know,

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in those early episodes where Boyd and Ian Bailey's character,

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jim, jim, where Jim is saying I think, i think I know what's

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going on here, i think I know what's happening, and boys like

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I don't have time for this, yeah , this shenanigans and goings on

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, jim, i've got, you know, i've got things to tend to, like

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goats to find or whatever, and it was like that was one of

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those moments where you're like, okay, you can't have, you can't

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have everybody on the same page all the time, but I'm what

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you're gonna, yeah, i'm what basis, you're gonna have them

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not on the same page.

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That challenge in this show.

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Speaker 3: I swear, if there was a show that ever needed a

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communication intervention, it was this show with all the

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different people.

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Speaker 1: It's tough, it's tough.

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Speaker 4: It's hard, Oh my God.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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I found myself on more than a few I mean, i've done some

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writing I found myself on more than a few occasions going boy,

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some tough, tough knots done, rattle here Like it's.

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This would be, this would be tough to keep all these balls in

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play.

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And given that I thought, i thought that they, i thought

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they did a good job on a lot of, on a lot of fronts like it, you

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know, given, given how much juggling there is to do, i

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thought, you know it's pretty well entertained all the way

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through.

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I didn't, i didn't have a lot of moments where, you know, i

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was like whatever, i really didn't, i was, i was right there

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with it all the way through.

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It's just an enjoyable, enjoyable mystery.

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Speaker 4: Well, i drink the Kool-Aid, I buy it all Sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 4: I could understand Ellis being like, wait a minute,

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you were in a tree and then you were here Because, yeah, this

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place, you know, plays with the bounds of what we find normal.

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You know what we've found, you know finding our everyday life

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like it does that Thanks for watching.

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It just seems like they're discovering things over, not

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over and over, like they're discovering new things all the

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time.

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You know, like God, i can't even think, like just even the

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Phoebe Rex character I think her name was Kelly being impaled to

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a tree.

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They hadn't seen that yet.

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Speaker 3: Okay, first off, that was fucked up.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's crazy, right , But that was just.

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Speaker 3: That was so messed up compared to what we've seen

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before.

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Speaker 4: Well, it was just.

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You know it.

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What I really liked about the beginning of the season was

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being able to see it again through new people's eyes.

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And whereas the Matthews family arrive, they've got, you know,

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the accident of the RV to contend with and being stuck in

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the RV and you know, like stuck at night and not understanding

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why they couldn't pull Ethan out , and you know that they were

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playing with the sundown and stuff like that.

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And then Julie and Tabitha being up at Colony House, it

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just seemed like it went a lot easier when they showed up, but

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then, when they were dealing with an entire busload of people

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that they had to contend with, i mean it's a little bit easier,

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i think, to convince four people versus 25 people that are

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coming in 25 different directions, like even the old

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couple that thought that they would be safe on the bus, you

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know, just being there but watching the monsters come up to

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the couple and shake their hands, and the couple, you know,

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was like, okay, you know, this is nice, the first nice people

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that we've met that aren't crazy .

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And then you know, we know that they get attacked right away.

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And we, you know, we watch the people in the diner as they're

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listening to this And it's just, it's an interesting, it was

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interesting to watch that again And just to you know, look at it

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through our own eyes thinking all right, so what different?

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what thing is gonna happen this time around?

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How are these people going to behave?

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And then you've got Randall, who is not buying one ounce of

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this, regardless of what he's hearing going on outside,

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regardless of what he sees the next morning when they're out

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there trying to rescue Jim.

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I mean, there's poor Tom ripped to shreds, and it was just.

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I think it was a really strong opening for the show.

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Speaker 3: Well, i love the fact how that first episode I mean

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it wasn't rocket science Every time I tried to dig the house

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kept collapsing on.

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It was like it was pulling.

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And you know, lizzie, and I kind of know what we're doing

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and we're speaking with Bob Mann here, who was on the show for a

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season our first three episodes , i think And you know, i know

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you're a writer as well as an actor, but was there anything

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that surprised you in the season that you were like, wow, that

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was really good or that was?

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you know again, i'm just curious, from your perspective

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as someone that's in the business, regardless that you

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were on the show, but, like as someone that's in the business,

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was there a little plot twist, whether it was the music box or

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the worms or whatever?

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Was there anything in your eyes that you thought that, oh yeah,

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i mean I think it was a?

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Speaker 1: little bit of a surprise, but I mean all of that

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really like, when you think about the, i mean it's a show

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that doesn't spend.

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It's a show that doesn't spend very much time laboring in what

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I guess would be the ordinary world of the show, right?

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So there's a version of this show where the ordinary world is

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where the characters are before they come into it And the

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inciting incident so the inciting incident for the, for

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the family, is coming into the town.

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It is so we experienced their story through there.

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But for a whole bunch of the other characters, the ordinary

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world is already being in the town.

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Right, and so the inciting incident have to be different

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kinds of things.

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Right, it's the first death in 96 days or it's whatever.

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Right.

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But then as you go, you need more things to be happening that

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bring out conflicts and bring out stuff that happens And

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really like, right from the get-go, you have this business

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of Sarah having something communicating with her, but as

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it turns out, the stakes just get raised, higher and higher

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and higher as you go, as things like interdimensional travel or

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potentially traveling through time.

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I don't even know we haven't even really had confirmed for us

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yet if that's even a thing.

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We're not 100% sure.

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But then you have this business of the worms and the cicadas

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and the box, like pieces keep getting added that make the,

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that weave the thing into something increasingly more

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complex, to the point where you're not even really sure what

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the threat is.

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You're not sure if the threat is psychological.

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Is it like the monsters?

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the monsters, frankly, almost seem to be somewhat quaint at

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this point.

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The monsters, at this point the monster.

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If all they had to deal with was the monsters, it wouldn't

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even really be that big of a deal.

00:20:32
They've already gone 96 days in a stretch.

00:20:35
You know, they've had a bad run of luck in the last couple of

00:20:39
weeks or whatever the time span of the show, and honestly it's

00:20:43
funny when you say maybe a week or two of seconds.

00:20:45
I don't think this first season covered that much time.

00:20:48
I don't think we've actually.

00:20:49
I don't think we've been in this world very long.

00:20:50
So if you think about it, the monsters are just sort of the

00:20:55
thin edge of the wedge, so to speak.

00:20:57
There's a whole bunch of other things going on that are really

00:21:01
just, i would almost say there are a whole bunch of things that

00:21:03
have just been introduced and we haven't even really gotten

00:21:07
into the meat of it yet.

00:21:08
And I know that that's to the frustration of some of the fans

00:21:11
and I can certainly appreciate that.

00:21:13
But if each season was a section of a novel, you know

00:21:17
we'd be, i think we'd probably be maybe a third of the way in,

00:21:23
and hopefully that means we're gonna get we're gonna get a lot

00:21:26
more play.

00:21:27
At this point With TV that's tough, cause you don't know how,

00:21:30
you don't know how much, you don't know how much roadway

00:21:33
necessarily you have in front of you.

00:21:35
Speaker 4: So it's tough At any point.

00:21:36
Yeah, i mean, after watching the finale and thinking about it

00:21:44
for the last week, i'm starting to think that it's a game like

00:21:50
the whole music box piece with the worms and everyone seeing

00:21:56
the music box not everybody, but a lot of people seeing the

00:21:59
music box that weren't there to get the worms and then Boyd

00:22:05
finally defeating the music box and the Abby character like she

00:22:11
was Abby when she first showed up to him, when he's about to

00:22:14
smash that music box, but if you listened carefully, her voice

00:22:19
changed and her vernacular changed while she was talking to

00:22:24
him.

00:22:24
The more he seemed intent on breaking that box, the more she

00:22:30
was intent on getting him not to .

00:22:32
And when he broke the box, the game was over.

00:22:36
They won that game, right.

00:22:38
And then, yeah, then there's Tabitha who somehow is getting

00:22:44
this message that she needs to save the children, and maybe she

00:22:49
was on an express route or something that took her to the

00:22:54
tower so that she could get pushed out and back into reality

00:22:59
.

00:22:59
But we don't know that she's in reality for sure.

00:23:04
We don't know if she's just in another escape room.

00:23:08
At this point We don't know, but I was just.

00:23:12
I mean, i try not to get too heavy into the theories, because

00:23:17
they're so zigzaggy It's hard to stay committed.

00:23:21
You can't seem to like I'm a very linear person.

00:23:26
I think it's because of teaching math, i'm not sure, but

00:23:29
I'm a very linear person, and when something starts to go off

00:23:35
in different tangents and I'm not seeing a pattern to it, i

00:23:41
don't know how to process that.

00:23:42
Speaker 3: So that's why Well, it goes back to what Jade said.

00:23:43
If you it feels like you're in the middle of a book and you

00:23:46
don't know where they're starting, you need the two

00:23:48
pieces to kind of connect.

00:23:48
Well, that puzzle?

00:23:50
Speaker 4: yeah, and I don't.

00:23:53
that's why I just don't commit to any of these theories.

00:23:58
Speaker 1: It might not be.

00:23:59
I mean, i do pop in and I take a look at what some of the fans

00:24:03
say and some of the theories and look, the theorizing is fun.

00:24:09
Speaker 3: And we're gonna show some of it, because some of the

00:24:11
people in the chat are actually gonna.

00:24:12
We're gonna start talking about it too, so-.

00:24:14
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, And the theories are fun.

00:24:16
I mean one thing I do, and I would not want to dissuade

00:24:19
anyone from theorizing Oh, no, that's pop.

00:24:22
If theorizing is your bag, go for it.

00:24:24
Have a good time with it.

00:24:26
Storytelling is not necessarily look, a story is not the same

00:24:33
thing as an escape room.

00:24:34
Right, and an escape room can tell a story, and certainly

00:24:39
anyone who's played RPG, video games or these sort of things.

00:24:44
there can be story elements and backgrounds to characters and

00:24:48
things like that built into it.

00:24:49
But a story is not necessarily a puzzle to be solved.

00:24:55
A mystery isn't even necessarily a puzzle to be

00:24:58
solved where you're looking for clues.

00:25:00
I mean, it is interesting to me that there is that there's so

00:25:04
many comparisons drawn between this show and Lost.

00:25:08
I've watched Lost probably five or six times now, and that's

00:25:15
not I'm not a rewatcher, but it's because my kids have gotten

00:25:18
into it and I've watched it kind of in tandem with them.

00:25:21
every time a new kid comes along and watches it.

00:25:24
So it's a fun.

00:25:26
it's been a fun experience.

00:25:27
But one thing that has become very, very clear to me watching

00:25:32
Lost a number of times is that if you watched Lost as a puzzle

00:25:38
to be solved, it was unsolvable.

00:25:41
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:25:42
Speaker 1: It was unsolvable.

00:25:43
There were no like there were.

00:25:45
If you sat down and you mapped out all of the clues that were

00:25:49
given to you, there is a reveal at the end, and in pieces near

00:25:54
the end, that tells you what things meant, but they weren't

00:25:57
necessarily things that you would have been able to come up

00:25:59
with a solution to Like.

00:26:01
In a way, the story was actively trying to come up with

00:26:05
something more interesting than the theories that a viewer might

00:26:11
have come up with based on which way they chose to be

00:26:13
misdirected.

00:26:14
That's the magic of a really good story is not to present you

00:26:19
a room that you can escape from , but to present you with a room

00:26:22
you can't escape from and then have that moment where they say,

00:26:26
here's how you could have got out and you go, wow, you know,

00:26:28
just be amazed by it.

00:26:30
I don't want to solve this show .

00:26:33
I want to be amazed by whatever they come up with and they hope

00:26:37
they do.

00:26:38
I don't want to come up with a better theory than what I'm

00:26:40
served up with in the end To your point.

00:26:43
Speaker 3: you know, somebody was saying on one of the

00:26:45
Facebook groups oh, this is a bad season all this, and I'm

00:26:48
like what do you want them to do ?

00:26:49
Go home, and the show is over.

00:26:53
Speaker 4: I'm like, are you watching the same thing?

00:26:55
I am.

00:26:56
Speaker 3: But, that said, we do have a couple of theories that

00:26:59
I want to throw at you.

00:27:00
Okay, yeah, yeah, no, i'm there for the theories.

00:27:03
Speaker 1: I think those are fun and I think they are cool yeah.

00:27:05
Speaker 3: And there really is only one theory.

00:27:07
I'm sorry, I know there's a lot of red herrings, but this is

00:27:11
the only one.

00:27:11
I'm accepting The Poison Tee from Mrs Lil.

00:27:15
It's the best theory of all.

00:27:19
Speaker 1: That they're all on a mushroom trip.

00:27:21
I have actually solved that.

00:27:23
Speaker 4: I just have to make the video for it.

00:27:26
Speaker 1: No but.

00:27:26
Speaker 4: I've solved that It's not.

00:27:27
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right, solution videos yeah.

00:27:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, okay, do you do those Okay.

00:27:32
Speaker 3: So, lizzie, why don't you do the first one?

00:27:35
Speaker 4: All right, let's see I've got to get close so I can

00:27:38
actually read.

00:27:39
I don't know why I can't see today.

00:27:40
As far as theories, this is from Emily C.

00:27:43
Oh yeah.

00:27:44
As far as theories, there were two.

00:27:47
One, this is all an experiment where everyone is studied to see

00:27:52
how far they can be pushed.

00:27:53
And two, there are moles to make, fromville to make and from

00:27:59
there are moles to make and fromville to keep this

00:28:04
experiment on track.

00:28:08
Speaker 3: I still like the Cromenockel, but what do you

00:28:10
think about the whole mole theory guys?

00:28:15
Speaker 1: I.

00:28:15
To me it feels like so.

00:28:16
To me it feels like the mole theory comes from viewers being

00:28:29
far too exposed, maybe, to stories where there are moles.

00:28:35
Let's put it this way If, instead of a show, we were

00:28:43
watching a baseball game and it was two teams playing against

00:28:48
each other and someone in the crowd stood up and said I think

00:28:52
there's a mole on one of the other teams playing for the

00:28:57
opposite team and they're actively trying to make their

00:29:01
team lose, That's why this happened and that happened.

00:29:03
And this happened and that happened, You'd think that that

00:29:07
person was out to lunch, right, Because we have no experience of

00:29:11
moles in professional sports or games.

00:29:16
Like there'd be no context whatsoever for that as a theory

00:29:20
of why the New York Yankees are beating the Boston Red Sox.

00:29:24
Speaker 4: Don't even ever say that.

00:29:25
Don't ever say that.

00:29:27
Speaker 3: That was the greatest example ever And, bob, you are

00:29:31
more than welcome to come back anytime.

00:29:33
Speaker 4: We can talk about the lunch Yankee suck.

00:29:38
Speaker 1: But you see what I'm saying, right, like you wouldn't

00:29:41
think anything of it.

00:29:42
right, like, even though you have conflict, you have two

00:29:44
sides against each other.

00:29:46
you have this sort of thing.

00:29:47
So like, personally and maybe this is my bias but I've seen

00:29:52
absolutely nothing up to this point to suggest to me,

00:29:56
intuitively or otherwise, if I were to look more closely, that

00:29:59
there is anyone here for whom the stakes of life or death are

00:30:04
not real.

00:30:05
It really does seem like the stakes of life or death are

00:30:07
truly real for everyone And I can't and it's not just an

00:30:11
evidence thing, it's also from a storytelling thing Like, what

00:30:16
is the narrative import of having any of these characters

00:30:21
be playing for the bad guys?

00:30:24
Like, if you name me a single character and try to tell me

00:30:28
that they're a mole and you will immediately destroy that

00:30:31
character's narrative.

00:30:32
it will not make any sense.

00:30:33
Speaker 4: The only thing I was going to say was that I really

00:30:34
bent.

00:30:34
I don't think so.

00:30:35
Speaker 1: I think, donna, and I think It's reaching Liz.

00:30:38
No, it's not.

00:30:39
I've heard the Donna.

00:30:41
I've heard the Donna theory.

00:30:41
I've heard the Donna's a mole theory.

00:30:43
I'm sorry, I don't buy it.

00:30:44
That character is so earnest, It's played, she plays it so

00:30:48
straightforward.

00:30:49
Speaker 4: But she totally is.

00:30:50
She totally is.

00:30:51
I feel like she is being compromised in some way.

00:30:56
I don't think that she willingly showed up playing for

00:31:00
the company.

00:31:00
I don't think that that's the case at all, and part of the

00:31:06
reason why I think that Donna is is because of the way she

00:31:14
responded to Jim when he said someone hurt us.

00:31:19
You heard it someone hurt us.

00:31:21
And the way she responded to him was as if she knew something

00:31:28
more than what we think that she knows.

00:31:32
The one thing I will say I'm sorry.

00:31:35
That's the reason why That's my reason why.

00:31:38
Speaker 1: So now the odds of that are so incredibly low, and

00:31:43
I'll tell you why, and it's a very boring and practical reason

00:31:46
, right.

00:31:47
Speaker 4: Is this the perney Bob speaking?

00:31:49
Speaker 1: What's that?

00:31:49
No, i mean yeah, no, right, no, it's like it has more to do

00:31:54
with what, like.

00:31:54
So if that were true, then it means that Liz Saunders, the

00:32:01
actor, has to know and was directed to deliver that line,

00:32:06
which is probably one of many takes.

00:32:08
Deliver that line that way, with the right amount of nuance

00:32:13
that a viewer is gonna pick up on it.

00:32:15
You do know that she's not an actual, the character is not an

00:32:18
actual person, like.

00:32:19
She's an actor who's playing the role and who has read the

00:32:21
script up to the end of season two.

00:32:23
Who, if Donna is a mole, liz Saunders certainly doesn't know

00:32:27
that she's a mole yet, because she would only have read the

00:32:31
scripts up to the end of season two.

00:32:32
Now I will say this Which hold on, let me finish Which means

00:32:35
somebody has pulled her aside and said the following to her

00:32:39
They have said you're a mole and we need you to deliver your

00:32:45
lines without anything in the plot or the episodes or the

00:32:50
lines to suggest this one way or the other.

00:32:53
We need you to deliver those lines with the right amount of

00:32:56
nuance so that, when it is turns out that you are a mole, we'll

00:33:00
be able to look back and they'll be able to see and go aha.

00:33:04
That is like the depth of that sort of exercise is.

00:33:09
I'm telling you it's just not, it's just not there.

00:33:12
Speaker 3: Wait, let me first say this I do not think there's

00:33:15
a mole.

00:33:16
Speaker 1: No, I don't think there's a-.

00:33:18
Speaker 3: There's two things about Liz Saunders' character

00:33:20
that I don't particularly care.

00:33:22
She keeps her hands in her pocket, which I know.

00:33:25
Maybe that's just what she does in real life, like that's her

00:33:29
thing, or that's Donna's thing.

00:33:31
But that's Donna's thing.

00:33:32
But to rebut what you're gonna say, bob, they did it in one of

00:33:37
the greatest reveals ever Harry Potter with Snape.

00:33:43
Speaker 1: Oh sure, yeah, yeah, and I'm just saying I'm not

00:33:45
saying it's either.

00:33:46
Speaker 3: I don't think she's a mole.

00:33:46
I think the whole mole theory is just grabbing for straws.

00:33:50
I think Randall is, bar none without a doubt, batshit crazy

00:33:56
because he's in this world and whatever else.

00:33:58
I think Donna knows a lot of things.

00:34:01
I think the way they shot it made it as though she was just

00:34:05
at the right place at the right time.

00:34:08
Speaker 4: All right, I'm going into the notes.

00:34:10
I was not going to go in here.

00:34:12
Speaker 3: But, anyway.

00:34:14
Speaker 1: I don't know.

00:34:14
I mean Snape's an interesting example though, alex, because we

00:34:17
don't have to go too deep into this.

00:34:19
No, this is what I meant when I said there is no narrative.

00:34:23
I cannot see the narrative benefit or the narrative import

00:34:30
of there being a mole, nothing to say.

00:34:32
I mean Snape wasn't a mole first of all.

00:34:36
He just had conflicting allegiances And he had like,

00:34:40
narratively it works so elegantly and beautifully for

00:34:43
his character And it's a huge bit of misdirection With Donna.

00:34:48
That wouldn't be misdirection, it would just be.

00:34:50
It would really be reaching, like it would be random, it

00:34:52
would be unassolvable and random .

00:34:54
If you've got a resort to the nuances in the way she delivers

00:34:57
lines or the fact that she's got her hands in her pockets to

00:35:00
deduce that she's a mole, i feel like you're looking for

00:35:02
something that it really isn't there, like that's my.

00:35:05
I think those things are just choices.

00:35:06
I don't think that they're informed by, i don't think

00:35:09
they're informed by like a mystery To me.

00:35:11
That's right up there with to me, that's right up there with

00:35:14
zoning in on little pieces of randomly placed set decoration.

00:35:19
Speaker 3: Really we've never done that before at all.

00:35:21
Speaker 1: Right right, or the things that background actors do

00:35:25
that put them slightly out of sync or out of continuity, and

00:35:30
different takes and stuff, all these different little things.

00:35:32
It's fun.

00:35:33
Again, i wouldn't dissuade someone from doing it, it's a

00:35:35
fun bit of business.

00:35:36
But to me that's not evidence.

00:35:38
To me those are like really spurious, almost unhinged little

00:35:44
red herrings that don't actually.

00:35:45
To me, the answer is gonna be in the narrative, the answer is

00:35:48
gonna be in the story.

00:35:49
Speaker 3: The answer is gonna be in the I gotta tell you.

00:35:51
Speaker 1: And Snape's turn near the end of Harry Potter is

00:35:55
embedded intrinsically within the story, because it's already

00:36:00
a story about allegiances, about jockeying for power, about

00:36:05
having the strength to overcome what is in front of you versus

00:36:08
what you know is right, being on the side of right instead of on

00:36:12
the side of might.

00:36:13
it has all of those things built into it.

00:36:15
I would venture a guest to say that he's not even 100% clear

00:36:19
through the whole story where he's going to land in the end,

00:36:22
because he's in self-preservation and trying to

00:36:24
be the best version of himself he can be.

00:36:26
That's not being a mole, that's trying to figure out who.

00:36:29
you are Totally consistent with the thrust of that narrative,

00:36:33
whereas this, like I don't.

00:36:34
I'm just not seeing any of that .

00:36:36
I don't, i don't.

00:36:37
Speaker 3: maybe we don't know enough yet, and I'm willing to

00:36:39
go there but I don't see any, and all I have to say is take

00:36:41
that, take that would you remember?

00:36:44
Speaker 2: No, i'm sticking with it, i'm just All right, give me

00:36:46
your evidence counselor.

00:36:48
Speaker 4: The thing is it's the beginning of this.

00:36:50
I didn't start thinking about it until season two And it's

00:36:57
just the beginning of these thoughts.

00:37:00
Speaker 3: I'm not saying like if No, i know, i know, i'm just

00:37:04
giving you a hard time.

00:37:05
Speaker 4: Absolutely yeah, for sure I mean I was thinking it

00:37:07
was her and Randall and I still kind of think Randall, yeah,

00:37:11
like he's a little unhinged.

00:37:15
Speaker 1: I think Randall is there.

00:37:16
you know and again, this is just me kind of watching the

00:37:19
show I think Randall is there to illustrate how a certain type

00:37:23
of person in the world that we have not really seen much of in

00:37:27
the show will behave and react when he gets there.

00:37:30
What is a kind of right of center leaning, natural

00:37:36
conspiracy theorist, distrustful of authority?

00:37:39
What is that kind of person going to do?

00:37:41
What are they gonna add to the soup when they show up in a

00:37:44
place like this?

00:37:44
To me, that's an interesting little bit of a thing that

00:37:50
someone's gonna add to a story.

00:37:51
that's gonna drive some tension , it's gonna drive some conflict

00:37:54
and it's gonna force some other characters into situations that

00:37:57
we haven't seen yet And hopefully move the plot along.

00:38:00
Speaker 3: I think it was more of a fan thing than it was an

00:38:03
actual Sure yeah, yeah, i think it was all created by the fans,

00:38:07
I don't know.

00:38:07
I mean, I'm not 100% sure.

00:38:11
Speaker 4: I honestly, i started thinking about it on my own.

00:38:14
It was just organic, like it wasn't fan driven.

00:38:18
And then all of a sudden I'm seeing other people post about

00:38:21
it and I don't go deep into posts Like I can't help but see

00:38:26
them and I read them.

00:38:28
but given some particularly negative and nasty stuff which

00:38:35
one site in particular just evolved into, i really stepped

00:38:40
back from that because I am not about that kind of being, you

00:38:45
know, like we're all here loving the show.

00:38:47
Well, let's all love it.

00:38:48
I don't need to-.

00:38:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, i mean yeah we're not about that, but okay,

00:38:53
my question about the whole mole theory is this and please

00:38:56
the people that are listening either on the podcast or tonight

00:39:01
, yeah, give us your-.

00:39:02
Take the whole mole thing aside .

00:39:04
okay, it is a mole, it's a whole experiment.

00:39:06
How do you explain the frigging monsters?

00:39:08
Because when we had you on for your first interview, Bob, i

00:39:12
think the words that you said to us were I shit my pants almost

00:39:16
when that monster came through the door and almost scared the

00:39:19
crap out of me.

00:39:20
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna tell you right now.

00:39:21
I'm just saying you can't like.

00:39:25
Speaker 3: If they're gonna make a jump and say that they

00:39:27
created that too, then that's a whole separate thing, but I just

00:39:30
can't see that happening, that I think there's just other

00:39:33
forces that are going on.

00:39:35
Now the mole thing could be part of it, yeah, but at the

00:39:38
same time I just think they're all just trying to survive And

00:39:42
maybe-.

00:39:43
Speaker 1: Oh, of course, my question about the mole, and

00:39:46
again, we don't spend a lot of time on it, but, like, my

00:39:48
question would be what do you need the mole for?

00:39:52
Speaker 4: To instigate, to control, possibly report back

00:39:59
certain things, to influence certain things happening.

00:40:07
You know, like, if there is, if it is an experiment and they're

00:40:14
looking for some kind of reaction or result, that this

00:40:19
person would go in and encourage that to happen or set it up to

00:40:24
happen, honestly, like I don't know, like whatever they would

00:40:32
want a mole for.

00:40:33
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so that's whatever they would want a mole

00:40:35
for is an easy answer.

00:40:39
You know not to be critical, but I guess, like everything you

00:40:42
said up to that point, to go in there, to instigate, to monitor

00:40:47
, to report back, think about everything, think about the

00:40:49
world that they're living in.

00:40:50
So, the people in charge, if there is someone in charge, if

00:40:54
this isn't just magic, if it isn't like sort of extra

00:40:57
dimensional magic, you know, sort of time, space, cul-de-sac

00:41:02
or whatever you wanna call it, and again I don't know what it

00:41:05
is You're basically saying that, okay, you've got a world where

00:41:10
when they go into it, they can't come out of it, they're locked

00:41:13
in.

00:41:13
They're monsters that come out at night.

00:41:15
There's magical stuff that happens.

00:41:17
There's weird trees.

00:41:18
They can clearly kinda track them and monitor them and they

00:41:22
know what's going on.

00:41:23
They're communicating with them through various means.

00:41:25
They're communicating with them telepathically.

00:41:28
Someone is communicating to Sarah, to Boyd, when he gets the

00:41:32
worms under his arms.

00:41:33
You got all this crazy shit happening right.

00:41:35
All this weird, wild, crazy, magical shit happening.

00:41:37
Again, what do you need a mole for?

00:41:41
A mole almost feels like a really quaint, unnecessary If it

00:41:47
is an experiment and they're watching them and they've got

00:41:49
all this nutty shit going on and there's all kinds of magic and

00:41:52
stuff going on.

00:41:52
What do you need a spy for?

00:41:55
Like what are you sending like encyclopedia brown in there to

00:41:59
take notes?

00:42:00
Like, why, what is the?

00:42:03
Speaker 4: import, like it would be important to have someone in

00:42:08
there, as, like I mean, it doesn't make sense that she's

00:42:14
just as scared as everybody else .

00:42:16
She's not.

00:42:18
Speaker 1: Play it through.

00:42:19
Play the scenario through.

00:42:21
Let's imagine Donna goes back to whoever it is she goes back

00:42:24
to and she reports.

00:42:25
What is she telling them?

00:42:27
She's like ah, they're starting to suspect stuff.

00:42:30
Yeah, no shit.

00:42:31
She's like right, she's.

00:42:34
Oh no.

00:42:38
Speaker 4: Bob froze, He froze No he froze.

00:42:43
Speaker 3: He's probably still talking.

00:42:44
I'm back.

00:42:45
No, he's back.

00:42:46
He had to have a drink.

00:42:47
Speaker 1: I can see it when I freeze.

00:42:48
But anyway, you see what I'm saying, right, like you need to.

00:42:53
you can't stop at theory.

00:42:54
You have to take that theory and then you have to apply it in

00:42:57
a meaningful, practical way and say how is that playing out?

00:43:01
Like what do we?

00:43:01
in a way, that's part that has to be part of the analysis,

00:43:04
right?

00:43:04
Hey Bob, i think Donna's a mole because of what she does with

00:43:08
her hands and the way she said certain things.

00:43:09
But wait a minute, like you have to kind of go, what is it

00:43:12
that she's?

00:43:13
what's the role that she's playing?

00:43:14
What's the practical purpose?

00:43:16
I don't see it Like.

00:43:17
if there's a mole, it renders a whole bunch of other stuff.

00:43:20
Speaker 3: I think the mole decided to like cut your little

00:43:22
thing off and you were messing with the mole too much And he

00:43:25
cut your.

00:43:26
Speaker 1: Although I will say so.

00:43:27
Here's something though, liz, that I do like and I've been

00:43:32
thinking about this a lot.

00:43:35
So I, a friend and I, had occasion to play a game last

00:43:43
year, in the bit of the year before we got super into it, and

00:43:46
it's called Don't Starve, and there may be some fans or

00:43:50
viewers who play games that are familiar with Don't Starve.

00:43:52
But I'm not saying that there are a bunch of elements of this

00:43:55
show that are similar to that, but the fact that there are so

00:43:59
many elements of the show that are similarish to a crafting,

00:44:03
surviving, kind of metaphysical, kind of magical, kind of

00:44:08
monsterish game where you have to work together and cooperate

00:44:12
and get food And you have to take shelter at nighttime

00:44:16
because monsters come out of the darkness and try to put out

00:44:18
your fire and kill you And your sanity meter is affected, your

00:44:23
health meter, all these sort of things.

00:44:24
I won't get into the details of it because it's kind of geeky,

00:44:27
but the show has reminded me more of that than anything else

00:44:31
that I've seen.

00:44:31
Where to me the theory that maybe they're involved in some

00:44:36
kind of game, to me there might be some foundation to that.

00:44:41
And again, i can't really go any further than that because, i

00:44:46
agree, i still think we're in the beginnings-ish of the story.

00:44:49
We haven't been given enough meat to chew on yet.

00:44:52
But I've seen things that made me go oh, if this is a real life

00:44:55
version of a bunch of players being dropped into a game and

00:45:00
being expected to play and survive which we wouldn't

00:45:03
question.

00:45:03
If we just turned on a video game and started playing, You

00:45:07
wouldn't see it as a horror scenario.

00:45:09
But if it was happening in real life, it absolutely would be a

00:45:12
horror scenario.

00:45:13
And this business that you're locked in it There's elements of

00:45:16
that that I'm seeing in some of the theories that I'm like yeah

00:45:18
, I'm seeing it, I'm seeing pieces of that, I'm buying that.

00:45:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, i have another.

00:45:24
Oh, i'm sorry there's one down.

00:45:26
Speaker 4: I was just gonna say so.

00:45:27
In this don't starve game there's no kind of wrath or

00:45:30
anything like that.

00:45:31
Any kind of moderator, you're just players.

00:45:35
Speaker 1: That's the thing.

00:45:35
That's the thing.

00:45:36
No overlord This is the thing.

00:45:38
This takes me back to the mole and then we'll move on from it.

00:45:41
You don't need a mole when there's no overlord.

00:45:45
Okay, there is no bad guy watching over the game,

00:45:49
monitoring things.

00:45:50
There's just players and the game has been created and set

00:45:54
for them And off they go.

00:45:56
And new players show up, sometimes as you see in online

00:46:00
massive world kind of games and stuff, and people die and

00:46:05
they're gone from the game.

00:46:06
Like maybe it is like a real world version of something like

00:46:11
that, and the consequences like maybe my character and my

00:46:16
character's wife and his daughter are out there like

00:46:19
alive somewhere.

00:46:21
Like maybe that is what happens when you die in the game You're

00:46:26
back to your old life or something We don't know yet.

00:46:28
Again, we haven't given any information.

00:46:30
They just be wild, random theories.

00:46:31
At this point We really don't know.

00:46:34
But there are a number of things like landmarks and in the game

00:46:37
don't starve.

00:46:38
You can go through these portals and pop up in different

00:46:41
places in the world that you open up.

00:46:43
It has limits.

00:46:44
You can't get out of it.

00:46:46
You can't get out of it.

00:46:46
You're stuck inside of it.

00:46:48
There's so many pieces that I think okay, yeah, that's a close

00:46:52
comparator.

00:46:52
I hope it's more interesting than that, frankly.

00:46:55
I hope it's wackier and more surprising.

00:46:56
I wanna be surprised by a story .

00:46:58
I don't wanna solve it, i wanna be surprised by it.

00:47:00
Speaker 4: I wanna be surprised.

00:47:01
I feel the exact same way, like I don't want to know everything

00:47:05
, which is one reason why I don't spend a lot of time with

00:47:10
the theories that people come up with.

00:47:12
I might just read one and it is in one eye out the other.

00:47:17
But oh, i just had a thought, i wanted to say something, but

00:47:24
you know, oh, this was what it was.

00:47:25
What if all of these people signed some kind of permission,

00:47:33
saying that without realizing what they were signing?

00:47:38
Speaker 1: Right.

00:47:39
Speaker 4: Without realizing what they were saying.

00:47:42
They signed a waiver saying that they could die or whatever.

00:47:47
Like you bought a car and little fine print, this car

00:47:52
could cause death or whatever you know And they signed it

00:47:56
somehow, Like maybe not even something that's in common, like

00:48:02
going into the hospital, the same hospital, or having the

00:48:05
same procedure or whatever, Like it's not anything in common

00:48:09
that they have with each other other than they signed this

00:48:12
waiver saying that they knew they possibly could be killed.

00:48:16
And that was that I don't know I just thought of that while you

00:48:19
were talking.

00:48:20
Speaker 3: One person said this is the MGM version of Squid Game

00:48:23
, if that's what you're trying to get at.

00:48:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:48:28
Or that the game.

00:48:30
Imagine how differently you would play a video game if you,

00:48:38
while you were playing it, you thought you could actually die.

00:48:43
Speaker 3: Forget it, you wouldn't take any chances.

00:48:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, you'd be super, you'd actually play.

00:48:47
You'd be playing for real.

00:48:48
You wouldn't be playing a game, you'd be playing for real,

00:48:50
whereas you know.

00:48:51
So maybe it's not that they signed something saying that

00:48:55
they wouldn't know that they could actually die.

00:48:56
Maybe they can't actually die, but they actually believe that

00:48:58
they could while they're playing .

00:49:00
Okay, that'd be interesting, that's interesting to me.

00:49:03
Speaker 3: Speaking of dying, we did have another question, And

00:49:07
I'm really sad because one of the king of conspiracy theories

00:49:11
is one of our listeners is the Cromenacle, and this person, I

00:49:16
think, daily has a new theory.

00:49:19
I mean, this is out there from the dates to the broken glass,

00:49:25
which I do wanna talk about because it's interesting.

00:49:28
Speaker 1: But yeah, i'm not familiar with the Cromenacle.

00:49:30
Again, i go in and peek every now and again just to see some

00:49:33
of the funny things.

00:49:35
Speaker 3: But, johnny, you taught from the beach.

00:49:37
you gotta love that picture of Michael Tabitha being in the

00:49:42
real world.

00:49:43
First off, do you think Tabitha is in the real world?

00:49:48
Both of you.

00:49:51
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Liz.

00:49:52
I'm curious what you think.

00:49:53
Speaker 4: I don't think so.

00:49:54
I don't think so because when she looked out the window, the

00:49:59
landscape looked like a postcard .

00:50:01
It didn't look real.

00:50:02
She might've been in the medical tent, for all we know,

00:50:08
for the game.

00:50:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, see, i don't, i see it.

00:50:11
Okay, so that's interesting.

00:50:13
So this is just me personally, and again, I may be wrong.

00:50:20
It could be.

00:50:21
It could be that the makers of the show are designing every

00:50:27
frame and every set and everything every character does

00:50:34
with a view to adding to the complex labyrinthian mystery.

00:50:39
That is, where are we and what are we doing?

00:50:42
Having been involved in a number of shows, including this

00:50:47
one, i have a feeling that that's not how it is.

00:50:54
Speaker 4: What that she's back in the real world, Oh no.

00:50:59
Oh, it's okay, i'm back.

00:51:01
It's okay, you're back.

00:51:03
Speaker 1: It only happens for a second.

00:51:04
It's just to get me to slow down.

00:51:05
I think I don't think the answer lies in the in the what's

00:51:12
in the window.

00:51:12
I don't think the answer lies in what you can see when you

00:51:15
freeze frame on the screen.

00:51:17
Speaker 3: I don't think the answer lies.

00:51:17
Yeah, because it looks like a different person.

00:51:19
It looks like a different person.

00:51:20
Speaker 1: It's not, but it's like.

00:51:21
To me that's just like look, it's just post-production, it's

00:51:25
just trying to make the thing look real.

00:51:26
It's the scene, the scene.

00:51:30
The answer lies in the scene.

00:51:32
What is it that happens in the scene, in the story, in the plot

00:51:35
?

00:51:35
The answer is in the narrative And I don't think we've been

00:51:39
given anything Right.

00:51:41
We have not been given anything right Like.

00:51:43
The answer is that she's either in the real world or she's not.

00:51:46
If she's in the real world, the story takes a fundamental turn.

00:51:51
It takes a fundamental turn.

00:51:54
This happened at the end of season two of Lost.

00:51:56
At the end of season two of Lost, in the final episode and

00:52:00
my apologies to anyone who hasn't seen that show, you've no

00:52:02
excuse at this point At this point, yeah, in the final scene

00:52:08
of the second season of Lost, there is a reveal of a character

00:52:12
and it's the first time you see a character who is not on the

00:52:17
island but experiences something contemporaneous to something

00:52:20
that has happened on the island.

00:52:23
It's not a flashback to the character's lives before they

00:52:26
got to the island.

00:52:27
It's in real time And that was the first time that you saw that

00:52:32
there was an outside world existing at the same time as the

00:52:36
island.

00:52:36
That's a key, fundamental shift that immediately laid waste to

00:52:40
a whole bunch of fan theories, theories that they were dead,

00:52:44
that they were Like.

00:52:45
It immediately kind of shuts so many things down because it's

00:52:47
like oh, they are somewhere in the world and somebody somewhere

00:52:52
else in the world experiences something because of what

00:52:55
happened on the island.

00:52:56
It's an immediate reveal that closes off a bunch of doors.

00:53:00
I don't think this scene with Tabitha, based on what we've

00:53:02
seen already, does any of that work.

00:53:05
Speaker 3: I will say thank you, for I really don't think we

00:53:07
know.

00:53:07
Thank you for crushing my lost dreams and I'm not gonna want to

00:53:10
see it.

00:53:10
If I haven't seen it by now, I'm not gonna.

00:53:14
Speaker 1: That's right, it's okay.

00:53:16
Speaker 3: But my point being is anybody have potato vodka?

00:53:20
Yes, that's a good one.

00:53:21
Yeah, yeah yeah, You know they changed the still-a here.

00:53:25
I hear the new guy doing the still-a's a lot.

00:53:27
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you I go to read directly for the old

00:53:30
stuff.

00:53:30
He's got a bunch of bottles of it under his bed and I just go

00:53:35
straight to him.

00:53:35
We drank a bunch of it while we were doing King and Pawn.

00:53:37
We actually For real.

00:53:39
I don't know if you saw this We had.

00:53:40
There was somebody in the fan group and I didn't.

00:53:42
I think I saw it and I sent him a screenshot of it.

00:53:45
There was some There's like a youth pastor for the church that

00:53:49
we were shooting King and Pawn in the basement of, and he

00:53:53
caught wind that we were there and he posted something saying

00:53:55
hey, tom and Frank are currently in the basement of the church

00:53:58
that I work at shooting a show.

00:54:00
And Reed and I were kind of like oh, are we gonna have a

00:54:02
bunch of people show up?

00:54:03
You know they were just minor side characters.

00:54:06
Nobody's showing up to see this .

00:54:07
Speaker 4: I would have showed up.

00:54:08
Yeah, oh, my goodness, i'm waiting for my.

00:54:10
Speaker 3: We're waiting for our guest pastor to be on the show.

00:54:14
Speaker 1: That's what we want, Like we fly up I fly up.

00:54:17
Speaker 3: I got a couple of days.

00:54:18
I can You know.

00:54:19
I don't have to work for rate, I can work for vodka.

00:54:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.

00:54:23
There was lots of that.

00:54:24
We got lots of that.

00:54:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, but there was a theory, and again there

00:54:30
was one that was a time travel theory, which I don't really

00:54:34
want to get into because they really didn't talk about those

00:54:37
dates in the first.

00:54:37
They talked about a bunch of dates in the first season and

00:54:40
they really haven't gone back to that yet.

00:54:42
Speaker 4: What they mentioned it.

00:54:44
It was mentioned.

00:54:44
Those dates were mentioned.

00:54:49
This season, though.

00:54:50
Speaker 3: But it wasn't like it was a big.

00:54:52
It wasn't a big thing, but like they were mentioned, But the

00:54:58
glass theory is kind of interesting and I'm going to

00:55:00
explain why.

00:55:01
Speaker 1: So Yeah, I'm not familiar with that.

00:55:03
Speaker 3: Tell me that, Okay so Sarah breaks glass at the diner

00:55:09
, cleans it up.

00:55:11
There was like three incidences of like glass And then the last

00:55:16
incident was when Jade was trying to fit those two members,

00:55:20
when he was talking to Reid actually Tom the bartender when

00:55:23
he was trying to do an experiment, And basically the

00:55:27
whole theory is what Jade said was trying to figure out how

00:55:31
these pieces of glass come together.

00:55:33
Now rewind to when Nathan is talking to Sarah.

00:55:41
They have a conversation and the only reason I remember this

00:55:44
is because I went back and I'm doing a little bit of my own

00:55:47
rewatch and she's like Sure, she actually talks about this

00:55:51
theory of trying to put the pieces back together.

00:55:55
now I don't know how that all fits, but It does make it kind

00:56:01
of like maybe it's something to think about in season three when

00:56:05
we get there.

00:56:06
now my question for you guys is this, because I don't know, and

00:56:09
also the listeners and The people listen on the podcast Do

00:56:14
you think Sarah's role is finished or does she have more

00:56:20
secrets to provide?

00:56:22
Saying this, she's not a mole, but she could have a connection

00:56:28
to the bigger entity somehow.

00:56:32
Speaker 4: She does, though.

00:56:33
I'm saying I think I wondered if, if Once she didn't actively

00:56:41
have the worms, like it was out in the open that she would not

00:56:46
be of any use, but then when they go looking for the music

00:56:51
box, she can hear it No one else can hear it, but she can hear

00:56:55
it and she tells boy what he has to do right.

00:57:00
So she's still connected somehow.

00:57:02
Mm-hmm.

00:57:05
Speaker 1: Again, i agree with that.

00:57:07
I think I mean, the So much of this is like narratively Driven

00:57:13
for me, right, like I think, i think, i think I think picking

00:57:17
up on stuff like that is Very much on the money, like to me.

00:57:21
That's that, to me, that kind of stuff like okay, couple of

00:57:25
characters had a conversation, then you have a character go

00:57:27
through this sort of like journey Where they, they, they

00:57:31
go from like think about what Sarah has gone through up to

00:57:35
this point.

00:57:35
Right, there's no way she's done because her arc isn't

00:57:38
finished.

00:57:39
She goes from being an instrument of this place,

00:57:43
whatever, what, whatever, whatever that means, and I don't

00:57:47
think it has to be propulsive, i think.

00:57:48
I think it could very well be just like here's what this place

00:57:52
does to some people of a certain type, and and you know,

00:57:56
victor, i think maybe is a is Another example of a character,

00:58:01
who's who's who's.

00:58:02
There's some connections, there's like a tether between

00:58:04
him and the place themselves, because he's had it.

00:58:06
Speaker 3: He survived.

00:58:07
How did he survive?

00:58:09
Speaker 1: all these different things.

00:58:09
So like I, i feel like I mean, have we seen Sarah and Victor

00:58:15
together At any point?

00:58:19
Speaker 3: I don't, they even had.

00:58:20
Speaker 1: They had a conversation, i have I don't

00:58:22
think that's interesting like there been a number of

00:58:26
characters that I don't think they've shared any Narrative

00:58:28
time together, right like they have not moved the plot together

00:58:32
and it would to me it would be, interesting to see Like, and

00:58:36
this, maybe, is where the glass comes into it, right, is that?

00:58:41
maybe the puzzle that needs to be put together is all the

00:58:44
different people who have been affected by this place all

00:58:48
coming together and sharing Their thought, and we got a

00:58:52
teaser of that At the tail end of this season.

00:58:55
When you have these characters coming together, sharing their

00:58:57
experiences, finally, and then all you needed to have was one

00:59:00
person in the room that goes, oh yeah, i've heard of that before

00:59:03
, i'm familiar with that, here's what that that is.

00:59:05
And then suddenly, suddenly, you have a Lowercase s solution

00:59:10
to something and somebody figures it out and they figure

00:59:13
out what to do.

00:59:14
I feel like there's a larger version of that that is yet to

00:59:17
happen, where characters like Victor and Sarah and You know

00:59:21
people like that, come together and go.

00:59:22
Let's share it, let's compare notes and let's talk about

00:59:26
what's going on here.

00:59:27
Maybe that's the answer to us getting out of here, and that

00:59:30
that would be a very elegant theme or you know sort of thesis

00:59:35
of the show, which is to say that here we are all trapped in

00:59:39
this mess Together, we're all at odds with each other, where we

00:59:45
can be quite disparate in the way we go about our business, we

00:59:48
can be isolated from each other .

00:59:50
We're very affected by our traumas and by our grief and by

00:59:54
our pain.

00:59:54
But guess what?

00:59:56
we all have a piece of a larger mosaic that, if we come

01:00:00
together and we share it with each other, we will be able to

01:00:04
come up with A solution.

01:00:06
Whatever that it, whatever that means right and in this show,

01:00:10
the solution.

01:00:11
That is the metaphor of them being able to get out of this

01:00:15
This, this drain, right?

01:00:16
this Eddie in the middle of a, in the middle of a lake.

01:00:18
That's that's what it is to me, okay.

01:00:21
To me, that's Narratively elegant and makes sense from a

01:00:26
story Perspective.

01:00:27
To me, that's so much more satisfying than an escape room

01:00:31
that you find the key and you put it Right here and you get

01:00:33
the bottle and you get, yeah, that's cool, great, good for you

01:00:36
, you made it out of the room, but like it doesn't, it doesn't

01:00:39
tell a story.

01:00:40
That moves me in a meaningful way, which is why I don't take a

01:00:44
lot of umbrage with people, necessarily, who speak up and

01:00:46
say I'm not buying the characters, i'm not buying the

01:00:49
writing, i'm not buying that.

01:00:50
I may not agree with them, but if that's the yeah taking with

01:00:53
the show.

01:00:53
That's fair game to me.

01:00:55
That's fair game if somebody's not moved by what's happening.

01:00:58
If someone's not, i, you know.

01:00:59
Again, i would say, well, wait till it's over, and then, and

01:01:02
then we'll have a conversation about whether you To that point.

01:01:05
Speaker 3: You know a lot of people.

01:01:06
You know when we grew up we had 20 episode shows.

01:01:11
Speaker 1: Exactly, yeah, yeah.

01:01:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, and people are saying that well, with only 10

01:01:15
episodes, everyone should be jam-packed.

01:01:17
Well, you know what.

01:01:18
You also have to set tables.

01:01:20
You had to set the table for the good stuff and, and You know

01:01:25
, we, when we would.

01:01:26
We've watched the walking dead.

01:01:28
I mean, we've watched every episode of the walking dead and

01:01:32
I think that you know Every episode wasn't the greatest

01:01:36
episode.

01:01:36
There were some stinkers in there, and I don't think there

01:01:38
was a stinker in here.

01:01:39
I'm just saying but you got to move the plot and some of it

01:01:42
isn't exactly the way we want it to be moved, but you got a.

01:01:45
You got to move the plot and and I think that with an

01:01:48
ensemble cast like this, we got so many moving parts.

01:01:51
Yeah, it's not always gonna be great.

01:01:55
Speaker 4: I, i, i Get the.

01:01:58
Not every episode is going to be, you know, mind-blowing and

01:02:03
exciting, but I don't think that there is any screen time wasted

01:02:08
.

01:02:08
I feel like to your point.

01:02:11
You know they set the table and you just have to Make note of

01:02:16
what they're trying to say there .

01:02:18
You know, and I always and I'll continue to go back to what I

01:02:22
thought was a throwaway scene of Tabitha seeing Marielle in the

01:02:27
cabinet, and you know, you didn't know what that meant

01:02:31
until the week after.

01:02:32
But They are imparting information with every scene,

01:02:39
whether you pick up on it or not .

01:02:41
There's information there, all right.

01:02:45
Speaker 1: I don't know we, i would say I would.

01:02:48
So the only issue I would take with that, i guess.

01:02:56
And this intermission is Brought to you by Canada brought to you

01:03:00
by Canada, very far away from where we are.

01:03:03
The only issue I guess I would take with with that to a certain

01:03:06
ex Liz is that, just as we don't know if it's not working

01:03:11
Because we haven't seen the whole story yet, we also don't

01:03:15
know if it's working Right.

01:03:17
We don't know either way.

01:03:19
Like to me, to me, some of the criticism, to me, some of the

01:03:24
praise falls as flat as the criticisms, in that sense where

01:03:27
when someone is saying no, no, no, guys, they're going

01:03:30
somewhere.

01:03:30
No, no, no, this all means something.

01:03:32
No, no, no, this is all coming together.

01:03:34
Anyone who's saying that is saying it on faith, yeah,

01:03:38
totally Just faith, like we.

01:03:41
Like you're a writer, liz.

01:03:42
You've written stories, you've written books, right, like, have

01:03:44
you written novels?

01:03:45
Have you written full length, full length novels?

01:03:48
Speaker 3: I know you've done in apologies right behind her

01:03:50
shoulder or a couple of volumes of them.

01:03:55
Speaker 1: Okay, but have you done in multi?

01:03:56
do your books have multiple chapters of the same story?

01:03:59
I'm just trying to track if they're just like anthologies of

01:04:02
short stories.

01:04:03
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, no, continuous story.

01:04:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, surely someone.

01:04:08
Surely someone reading one chapter.

01:04:11
Mm-hmm of your book and you asking them What do you think of

01:04:14
my story?

01:04:15
What do you think like there the answers they can give you,

01:04:19
both positive and negative, yeah , have a have a whole big world

01:04:25
of blind spot around them.

01:04:27
They don't know what it means, they don't know where it's going

01:04:30
, they don't know whether it leads to something, whether it

01:04:32
doesn't lead to something.

01:04:34
They might have faith, they might be doubtful, they might be

01:04:37
critical of things, that you go , oh, I Think we should freeze,

01:04:44
frame all of his, his emotions.

01:04:51
But yeah, but you do.

01:04:52
You do know what I mean though.

01:04:58
Speaker 4: Is is.

01:04:58
I think the question that comes after that is are you still on

01:05:02
the ride?

01:05:03
Are you getting off?

01:05:04
Speaker 1: Exactly, yeah, yeah and that's That's.

01:05:07
Speaker 4: I think that's the important question.

01:05:09
Like I have faith I really do have faith that they are not

01:05:14
going to lead me astray.

01:05:16
Like they're not gonna leave me hanging out in the middle of

01:05:19
the ocean on a raft with no way to get back in.

01:05:22
Yeah, I really have faith that this time it's gonna happen.

01:05:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I at the same time, i mean, i, i do too,

01:05:32
but at the same time I I'm very mindful and again, i'm sort of,

01:05:35
i'm sort of agnostic about it, frankly, but I, i, with any

01:05:38
given audience, with every given story, it is my understanding

01:05:42
that the story needs to do the work and That if you stay with

01:05:46
it, it is an act of faith and if you don't stay with it, it is,

01:05:50
it is because it has stopped Moving you, it's because it has

01:05:54
stopped getting you to a place where you're even interested.

01:05:57
Anymore, and no matter how great a story is, any story can

01:06:01
lose somebody.

01:06:02
I don't know if you've, i don't If you've ever stopped reading a

01:06:04
book or if you've ever read a.

01:06:06
Speaker 3: Watch.

01:06:07
Have you watched the walking dead, the Negan years?

01:06:10
Speaker 4: I Gave up, i'm done.

01:06:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go, and a lot of people did a lot of

01:06:16
a lot of people did a lot of audience dropped off at that

01:06:18
point, me included, and it's like, okay, this story went to a

01:06:22
place that.

01:06:23
That got me somewhere emotionally and now I feel like

01:06:26
there's nothing really left for me.

01:06:28
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's exactly it.

01:06:31
Like I got a text while we're doing this asking if I'm

01:06:34
watching Dead City.

01:06:35
Right right and I was like they .

01:06:39
They made all this headway at the end of season 11 Maggie and

01:06:45
Negan and then they go back as if they never had that

01:06:48
conversation.

01:06:49
I I Love the show, but that's all another conversation.

01:06:54
Yeah, so I love things about it that I will never love exactly.

01:06:58
Speaker 3: I do want to ask you, and the viewers and I and it's

01:07:02
not really a theory but What was the purpose of killing smiley

01:07:08
off when they made such a big deal about promoting the crap

01:07:13
out of this guy and Do you think he'll be back?

01:07:20
Speaker 1: I Mean, i have, i have this sort of cynical Hey,

01:07:25
this is a show that they want people to watch, kind of answer,

01:07:28
and I don't, i mean he's visually, visually he's, he's

01:07:35
striking, he's visually, visually set apart.

01:07:38
Right, yeah, let me be, let me be.

01:07:40
I'm gonna say something that I am sure a whole bunch of viewers

01:07:44
and fans of the show are Not going to like.

01:07:47
I'm sure they're not gonna like it.

01:07:49
He is not a character.

01:07:51
Yeah, he's not.

01:07:54
He is not a character and I know I, yeah, you know he's a

01:07:58
character in the way that the aliens in the aliens movies like

01:08:03
the, the Ripley and and really, and and Really, scott and James

01:08:08
Cameron movies, how those are aliens, how those are characters

01:08:11
.

01:08:11
They're not characters, they're there.

01:08:12
There's something that exists for the purpose of testing the

01:08:16
characters and pushing their boundaries and seeing what they

01:08:19
will, they will do and making something very compelling in a

01:08:23
scary sort of way for the audience.

01:08:25
They're not meant to be, they're not meant to be

01:08:27
characters.

01:08:28
I mean it's like the Terminator is a character, But smiley just

01:08:34
isn't they eventually made him a character, but in the first

01:08:37
Terminator movie I would say he wasn't a character, really not

01:08:41
really like I mean.

01:08:42
I don't know, we can have, we can have debates and

01:08:44
disagreements over what it means to be a character.

01:08:47
I'm all.

01:08:48
I'm all there for that.

01:08:48
But I guess I again I'm thinking from the purpose of,

01:08:51
like, what is the story you're trying to tell and who is it

01:08:54
You're telling a story about?

01:08:56
right, if it comes to pass that that part of this story is

01:09:00
about the monsters, that there's a whole backstory and a whole

01:09:04
interesting bit, again, i'm a hundred percent there for that.

01:09:06
I think that will be cool and I think there's some interesting

01:09:09
things Hopefully to be revealed about what these creatures are

01:09:12
and where they came from.

01:09:12
If the show doesn't tell us that, i'll be deeply

01:09:15
disappointed.

01:09:15
I hope we do learn something about these things and where

01:09:18
they came from.

01:09:19
I really, really do.

01:09:20
But again, up to this point There's been sparingly little

01:09:25
Revealed to the audience about what the, the intentions or the

01:09:29
desires of these things are, other than to be menacing and to

01:09:32
hunt.

01:09:32
Well, that's, that's pretty much what they do.

01:09:34
And yeah, i agree with you, though You get these little

01:09:37
twists like oh, look at what they did to.

01:09:39
You know again Phoebe Rex's character, like they clearly

01:09:43
have a playful sort of element about them.

01:09:45
Okay, add that to the list of things we know about these

01:09:47
creatures, right, that still just makes them creatures, right

01:09:51
, still just makes them there are.

01:09:52
There are animals who there are .

01:09:54
There are predatory animals who play like yeah, messer, like

01:09:58
cats play with my, oh, my god.

01:10:00
They're not.

01:10:00
That doesn't.

01:10:01
That doesn't make them characters.

01:10:02
It just.

01:10:03
It's just an element of their predatory nature.

01:10:05
Speaker 3: Bob, to your to your point.

01:10:07
First off, i do want to mention this comment.

01:10:10
You know, betrayed King, we don't like smiley, he's

01:10:14
responsible of Donna's death, no , but But even within that

01:10:19
monster theory that you're saying, you know I and I can't

01:10:22
think of like perfect examples of it, but there's always that

01:10:26
gray back or there's that spotted whatever, that extra

01:10:29
spotted wolf.

01:10:30
Yes, they're monsters, i think.

01:10:32
When they put you on the poster and they and they put you out

01:10:36
front the way he did, i mean I hope he can come back, just

01:10:40
because he seemed like he was kind of the head of the monsters

01:10:43
.

01:10:43
And I know maybe I'm a little bit more, i'm drinking the, the

01:10:46
smiley juice more than others, but you know, i just think it

01:10:50
was.

01:10:51
It was a bad move, you're you're so.

01:10:53
Speaker 1: You're experiencing the story, and not just the

01:10:58
story, but the experience of the show.

01:11:00
You're experiencing the show Not in the order that the show

01:11:06
was assembled, so the show was made last summer, so they did

01:11:15
not kill smiley.

01:11:17
After putting him on the poster, they created a season of the

01:11:21
show, they wrote it and they mapped it out.

01:11:23
And then they they came up with a shooting schedule and they

01:11:27
filmed it.

01:11:27
And then, after it was done, they started assembling

01:11:31
marketing material For the show to market it and to get people

01:11:35
to watch it.

01:11:36
And smiley, who was you know?

01:11:38
again, that's something that fans of Kai, i think, we were

01:11:41
the ones that coined it.

01:11:42
Yeah, like we.

01:11:43
You know that that gets assembled and and there's a

01:11:45
decision made.

01:11:46
You know, let's, let's put it this way I'm not a hundred

01:11:51
percent convinced or sure that when I was filming my stuff in

01:11:57
season one and they were doing all that stuff with me in the

01:12:00
box, that the plan Was to have the very first trailer of the

01:12:04
show Be me in the box, you know, maybe it was yeah, but that's

01:12:09
how it played out.

01:12:10
Like I don't think you always know.

01:12:12
I think sometimes you do, but I don't think you always know

01:12:14
necessarily how you're going to be presenting a Creative piece

01:12:20
of work that you've made from a marketing perspective, until

01:12:23
after you've made it, until after you've put it together and

01:12:25
you go Oh, this is pretty arresting, this will be cool.

01:12:28
Speaker 3: Again, i'm open to being wrong, but then maybe they

01:12:30
knew all along that they were gonna do it this way, but you

01:12:32
know you're making a really good point and I hate the fact that

01:12:35
you're making such a legitimately awesome.

01:12:38
Speaker 1: I'm ruining the thought you, but I hate it.

01:12:40
You are ruining my fun.

01:12:41
I know I'm very sorry.

01:12:43
Speaker 3: I will say, though I mean even cutting it the way

01:12:46
they did, like editing it.

01:12:47
I mean they, they made them a focal point this year, and Sure

01:12:52
and I just think it's a shame because I think he could have

01:12:55
been a really good adversary.

01:12:56
They obviously and I know Lizzie and I have talked about

01:12:59
it They put a ton more money into the show this year.

01:13:01
I Mean it's clear that they put more well, as far as far as

01:13:05
marketing it.

01:13:06
They did and also there was more monsters.

01:13:09
Speaker 4: There's more, there was more a lot of stuff effects

01:13:13
you know, one of the interesting things and I I wanted to ask

01:13:17
the both of you what you thought like when Victor and Tabitha

01:13:21
are down in the Caves and they come upon these monsters.

01:13:26
They're not just coming upon these sleeping monsters, they're

01:13:30
coming upon all these objects.

01:13:32
And And it made me start to think about why those things,

01:13:41
what do those things have to do with?

01:13:44
You know, the, the monsters that are sleeping, you know,

01:13:48
like the dummy, the chest, the, the television, the toys, all of

01:13:55
that stuff, like even the brides suitcase was there.

01:13:59
Mm-hmm.

01:14:02
So What are your thoughts on that?

01:14:05
Oh?

01:14:06
Speaker 1: It's clear, i mean it's clearly giving information.

01:14:09
I mean I I've seen a number of things I feel like on the show

01:14:13
that, for me, reinforces that there is no plan To that like,

01:14:18
and by plan I mean like.

01:14:20
I feel like a lot of the theories fall down because they

01:14:22
presuppose that there's a puppet master.

01:14:25
Yeah, right, yeah, even the mole thing, right, yeah, the the

01:14:29
who's the mole?

01:14:30
is there a mole?

01:14:31
who could the mole be?

01:14:33
why the mole?

01:14:33
all of that is predicated on a, on a foundation, on an

01:14:37
assumption that there's someone to report back to that There is

01:14:42
that there is someone on the other side of an invisible wall

01:14:45
who's playing, who's doing something right, like, like to

01:14:49
me, to me.

01:14:49
To me I've seen more evidence on the show than I can feel like I

01:14:53
can shake a stick at that.

01:14:54
They're stuck in the middle of Something like not unlike.

01:14:57
I mean, if you get lost in the woods, if you get lost in the

01:15:02
woods and there are bears and there's mosquitoes and you can't

01:15:06
find any, and you can't.

01:15:08
There's spiders and there's stuff you can break your ankle

01:15:11
on and all kinds of shit like that.

01:15:13
You don't need someone hiding behind the trees Watching you

01:15:19
actively trying to make sure that you don't get out of the

01:15:22
woods.

01:15:22
You don't need it.

01:15:25
You already have all of the elements you need existing in

01:15:27
the natural world, in this case a very unnatural world, but hey,

01:15:32
there's lots of natural stuff that happens.

01:15:34
It seems otherworldly like to me.

01:15:35
I have not seen anything that necessarily says to me that

01:15:39
there is Something like that, with one exception, like with

01:15:43
one, with one single exception, and that's the, the voice, the

01:15:48
voice on the radio, yeah, yeah, like that's.

01:15:49
That's the only to me, that's the only to me.

01:15:51
That's the only thing that sits is a like a weird kind of

01:15:54
outlier where I'm like Who was that?

01:15:56
that was yeah like what like what.

01:15:57
What is that all about?

01:15:59
Speaker 3: one of the things that we're talking about.

01:16:00
We're talking about man who and we're trying to recap season one

01:16:04
, season two and possibly season three, and we already know what

01:16:07
happens.

01:16:07
Just kidding, no, but I did want to.

01:16:11
I'm looking at the chat and before because I want to talk a

01:16:15
little bit about Victor, because people are going crazy About

01:16:17
that.

01:16:17
But before we do that, lizzie, what was your thought of the

01:16:22
whole?

01:16:22
a cooie kids And where do you think that they all kind of fit

01:16:27
in your mind?

01:16:27
Because that was some of the worst close captioning.

01:16:31
I think people are going ballistic for like two weeks.

01:16:34
Speaker 4: Is that what it means ?

01:16:36
Is that really the spelling?

01:16:38
Speaker 3: What is the whole deal with these kids, I mean?

01:16:40
Speaker 4: I really don't know.

01:16:42
I really really don't know, because Jade has now seen them.

01:16:50
First, tabitha saw them, jade has now seen them, and I'm

01:16:54
pretty sure Victor saw them in the cave too, like when they

01:16:59
were poking out between those.

01:17:01
Speaker 3: I'm not sure.

01:17:02
I'm not sure if he did or not, But it's sooner or there.

01:17:05
I mean Gales, they got beds of rock, rock beds, Yeah.

01:17:11
Speaker 4: I just I don't know Like.

01:17:13
I really I really really don't know Like they look like ghosts

01:17:20
in a sense because of their coloring And what we think about

01:17:25
ghosts a lot of times, but I don't know.

01:17:30
I couldn't really get anywhere with that.

01:17:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty.

01:17:36
It's pretty left field, like it really does, although again,

01:17:39
the way for me.

01:17:40
Speaker 4: That makes it fit like Are you going to say that

01:17:42
they're moles?

01:17:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.

01:17:45
I think the kids are the moles.

01:17:46
Yes, And the kids?

01:17:49
those kids.

01:17:51
when Jade stumbles upon them, they are pretending to sleep,

01:17:56
Not unlike a kid pretending to sleep on Christmas Eve.

01:17:59
Yeah.

01:17:59
When they're trying to stay up to see Santa Claus.

01:18:03
I mean again like I feel like when you've got all these

01:18:07
elements, like if you play one of these RPG games, you know, in

01:18:11
these kind of survival games, like Don't Starve, there is a,

01:18:16
you know if there's this.

01:18:20
Speaker 3: He's starving.

01:18:21
Speaker 4: Yes.

01:18:22
Speaker 3: A little bit of a pause for for.

01:18:25
Speaker 4: He's drinking over there, so I'm going to drink.

01:18:28
Speaker 1: It's so.

01:18:28
It's so fun because you guys see this freezes before I do.

01:18:30
It's so, so I'll see you react.

01:18:33
You should almost have like a escape, like a word that you say

01:18:37
as soon as I freeze, just say it and I'll stop.

01:18:40
Speaker 3: I'm going to let it be on Kui.

01:18:42
Speaker 1: And what I was going to say was I feel, you know,

01:18:45
when I see those things, it's like they may not be connected,

01:18:48
like there may just be a rogues list of things that exist in

01:18:52
this world.

01:18:53
Yeah.

01:18:54
And it's like, and as characters encounter them, they get, they

01:18:57
get different pieces of the puzzle.

01:18:58
you know the puzzle to be solved is how do we get out of

01:19:00
this, out of this game?

01:19:02
You know, again, i hope I'm wrong, but it does seem like, it

01:19:05
does seem like that kind of thing.

01:19:07
And even even the reveal of Jade, looking up and you realize

01:19:11
that the symbol is the is, are the roots superimposed against

01:19:16
the sky.

01:19:17
That was cool And it was to me that was very reminiscent of the

01:19:22
kind of thing that you would discover at a certain point in a

01:19:25
game.

01:19:26
You know, you see these references and then you discover

01:19:28
for, like in loss, the numbers you know, like they have, you

01:19:32
know there's, it's almost similar to that, or something

01:19:34
that it takes on a significance for certain characters, does get

01:19:37
revealed to be something, but it might not be, as it might not

01:19:40
be as big of a connection that ties everything in as you

01:19:44
thought it was going to be.

01:19:45
Speaker 3: It's just like oh yeah, one of the lists are what

01:19:48
Lisa said in the chat and, and she's right, somebody said that

01:19:52
it might be a different language .

01:19:53
It might be translatable, there's a whole lot of different

01:19:56
things and, and it might not be the right way, we're saying it

01:20:00
And, of course, You mean spelled .

01:20:02
Speaker 4: It's not spelled Right.

01:20:05
We don't know how it's really supposed to be spelled.

01:20:08
Speaker 1: Has everyone seen On Koei?

01:20:11
Speaker 3: On Koei.

01:20:14
Speaker 4: On Koei.

01:20:15
It means come back, okay Good.

01:20:18
Speaker 1: Did you hear my question?

01:20:20
Did I get it freeze?

01:20:21
Speaker 3: before my question.

01:20:23
Speaker 1: We both seen.

01:20:24
We both seen Game of Thrones.

01:20:26
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, of course, of course.

01:20:29
Oh my God, yeah.

01:20:32
Speaker 1: I mean, what's what could be the equivalent?

01:20:34
I like I do this My kids.

01:20:36
I ask them questions about stories and see if they get it.

01:20:38
What's the?

01:20:39
it's very condescending and annoying.

01:20:41
And I, I admit that.

01:20:42
Holder.

01:20:44
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.

01:20:45
Speaker 4: Holder.

01:20:45
Speaker 3: Holder Yeah.

01:20:47
Speaker 4: Holder Right Like, is it definitely?

01:20:50
Speaker 1: His name, his name, his name wasn't even a mystery,

01:20:52
but what a cool reveal when you found out where his name come

01:20:55
from.

01:20:55
Oh yeah, like it could.

01:20:57
it could be something like that where the thing you're hearing

01:20:59
isn't actually the thing.

01:21:01
Like it's, it's it's something.

01:21:02
It's something else.

01:21:03
That is not something that we could like.

01:21:05
What were the clues that told you that Holder's name was hold

01:21:11
the door?

01:21:11
What were the clues?

01:21:12
I'm going to suggest zero.

01:21:14
There were zero clues.

01:21:15
Speaker 3: There were zero things revealed.

01:21:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, you didn't know , you could not have solved, it

01:21:20
was just a.

01:21:20
It was just a, it was just a rewarding reveal, when you go,

01:21:24
oh cool, that's it.

01:21:26
Yeah, that was a cool moment.

01:21:28
It's not something that can be solved.

01:21:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was, it's, it's storytelling.

01:21:33
Speaker 1: It's a magic of storytelling, that's all it is.

01:21:35
I'm, i'm, willing, i'm hoping that it will be something really

01:21:39
cool that nobody can possibly solve.

01:21:41
that it's just, it's just going to be a neat, a neat kind of

01:21:45
reveal about something.

01:21:46
Again, i'm hoping all of these theories are wrong.

01:21:48
I'm, i'm, i'm hoping that it's something so much cooler that

01:21:52
that they've got cooked up here that we, we can't possibly think

01:21:55
of it.

01:21:55
Speaker 3: All right, i think the character that I do want to

01:21:57
kind of point out, because Lizzie had her pulse on on her,

01:22:03
and the beginning, do you think Tilly is more than just a little

01:22:09
old nosy lady or do you think she's more to the story, cause I

01:22:13
just think she, i know, i know so many Tillies in my life, yeah

01:22:17
.

01:22:18
There's just it's, it's everybody's like going crazy

01:22:21
about her.

01:22:21
Oh she, she thinks she figured out that the, that Fatima was

01:22:25
pregnant, a woman knows, and all this other stuff.

01:22:29
And then she brings up also the whole 47 theory where she had

01:22:34
four, four kids, seven grandkids , and 47 was on the radio.

01:22:37
So there's a bunch of there's.

01:22:39
There's those two theories between Tilly and 47.

01:22:42
What are you guys thoughts about Tilly?

01:22:45
Speaker 4: first off, I mean she's kind of she acts like a

01:22:50
busy body and that bugs me.

01:22:54
But she's like a door opener.

01:22:59
A lot of times She comes up and gives you a piece of

01:23:03
information and it's a very short exchange And then she's on

01:23:09
her way, like she seems very busy body, you know, like so,

01:23:15
and so is here This one's doing that.

01:23:17
Blah, blah, blah.

01:23:18
The whole thing with Fatima.

01:23:22
I was like I'm a woman, i don't know.

01:23:26
I mean, i know if, if someone's like oh well, i'm late, well

01:23:31
you know you could be pregnant, but looking at someone, you

01:23:34
can't just look at someone and know automatically that they're,

01:23:39
they're pregnant, like she doesn't know.

01:23:42
Fatima.

01:23:44
Speaker 1: Well, that's So in my world.

01:23:46
what I would say is that that's inductive reasoning, not

01:23:50
deductive reasons.

01:23:52
So, that's instead of saying what is my evidence?

01:23:54
What is my evidence that this woman can't?

01:23:57
can't?

01:23:58
look at a young woman and go I've seen these signs before.

01:24:01
I believe you're pregnant.

01:24:02
What is the evidence that we've been provided that she can

01:24:04
actually do that?

01:24:05
I would suggest none.

01:24:07
Yeah, there's no.

01:24:08
There's no evidence whatsoever.

01:24:09
The character says it and she's right.

01:24:12
Yeah, she's right, and there it is.

01:24:16
But to me it doesn't follow.

01:24:18
That inductive reasoning gets you to the opposite conclusion,

01:24:21
where it's like a person can't do that.

01:24:24
Well, wait a minute.

01:24:25
Wait a minute.

01:24:26
Maybe this character can.

01:24:29
Speaker 3: Hey, it's.

01:24:29
it's from land We don't know.

01:24:31
Speaker 1: And that's it.

01:24:32
That's all there is to it, like I to me.

01:24:34
There's nothing to be dissected there.

01:24:36
I take, i take, i, unless unless something very clear is

01:24:40
presented to me.

01:24:41
I take everything that every character says, which is their

01:24:44
delivery of the words on the scripts that they've been given.

01:24:46
Every single thing that every character says is true to them.

01:24:50
Speaker 4: Yeah.

01:24:51
Speaker 1: I believe it.

01:24:52
I believe it a hundred percent.

01:24:53
There is no reason for me not to believe it.

01:24:56
If I'm distrustful of every single character and suspicious

01:25:00
of every character, i'm probably not experiencing the story the

01:25:03
way it's intended to be experienced.

01:25:05
I think she is a, i think she's an old lady who was on the bus

01:25:09
and she's lived through a whole bunch of years and she knows

01:25:12
she's close to the end.

01:25:13
So she is taking she's kind of another example of the Randall

01:25:17
thing.

01:25:17
Yeah.

01:25:18
Yeah, all it does, it's it's.

01:25:20
It's a bit of a thought experiment.

01:25:21
It's like, well, what would someone who's at the end of

01:25:25
their life, who's terminally ill , who's nearing the end, who

01:25:29
gets told this is your fate, here's where you are.

01:25:31
How does a person like that take it?

01:25:34
How do they behave?

01:25:35
Do they thrash about?

01:25:36
Do they kick and scream?

01:25:38
Do they question everything?

01:25:40
Maybe they don't.

01:25:41
Maybe they just take it and stride and go.

01:25:43
Okay, if this is where I am, then I'm just going to be chill,

01:25:46
and maybe the person who's chill is capable of relating to

01:25:50
people and experiencing things and noticing things that other

01:25:53
people can't.

01:25:54
Again, that might, that might be part of the bigger puzzle.

01:25:58
Part of the bigger puzzle might be pulling people in who are

01:26:02
just chilling the F out about the whole thing and saying what

01:26:05
have you noticed?

01:26:06
What have you seen?

01:26:07
Yeah, from your perspective, are we listening to you?

01:26:10
Are we?

01:26:11
are we giving you time and space to share with us your

01:26:14
observations?

01:26:15
Maybe we're not.

01:26:16
Maybe we're just being dismissive In a way, if I can

01:26:19
get philosophical about it.

01:26:21
Maybe maybe the audience is these fans.

01:26:24
Maybe their reaction to these characters is a bit of a

01:26:26
reflection of the challenges that the characters are

01:26:29
experiencing themselves Like.

01:26:31
Instead of taking all these characters at face value and

01:26:33
saying, what is this experience and what would what would it be

01:26:37
like to me if I was in the middle of it?

01:26:39
What would what parts of my character would it bring out?

01:26:41
Instead of like questioning all these characters as if they're

01:26:44
all trying to fool us and fool each other, we're going to miss

01:26:47
all those really cool, interesting tidbits that come

01:26:49
out of the come out of the story Like that.

01:26:51
That, to me, that's where story lives, that's where narrative,

01:26:53
that's where narrative lives, that's where an emotional

01:26:55
journey lives.

01:26:57
I actually buy her.

01:26:58
I don't think she's suspect at all.

01:26:59
I have not for a second thought that Tilly was suspect.

01:27:02
I'm sorry, but I just don't.

01:27:03
Yeah, i think she's just a new ingredient to the soup and and

01:27:07
she's going to have something to add and something to pull,

01:27:10
something to bring.

01:27:11
And she did in this season.

01:27:12
She did, yeah.

01:27:13
Speaker 3: It's funny.

01:27:13
You should say that because I forget where I read it, or I

01:27:16
think it might have been Liz that told I don't know if it was

01:27:18
Liz Saunders that told us this, i don't think it was When she

01:27:22
did that dance in the rain.

01:27:24
That was all impromptu, that wasn't even part of the normal

01:27:29
story, cause that's just the kind of lady that she is in

01:27:33
general, like her real.

01:27:34
Have you ever worked with her?

01:27:35
The actress.

01:27:37
Speaker 1: No no.

01:27:38
Speaker 3: Okay, I just didn't know cause.

01:27:40
Speaker 1: you are the the mayor of Halifax and I will say I

01:27:44
will say this, though like if you've, if you've, like there's

01:27:50
nobody going around, like the time.

01:27:53
Time is of such an incredible premium It's such a time is of

01:27:58
such a valuable essence when you're making these things.

01:28:01
You got a crazy schedule, like for someone to be walking around

01:28:05
and go into all the different actors and sitting down, have a

01:28:09
conversation, go into background actors, going to the set

01:28:12
decorators, going to the production design and saying,

01:28:15
okay, you got to make sure that this is over here and that's

01:28:18
over there And we're going to have all these Easter eggs and

01:28:20
background actors.

01:28:21
You got to make sure that you have this facial expression and

01:28:24
that facial expression.

01:28:25
You better go over here and go over there.

01:28:26
No one's doing that.

01:28:27
No one's doing that.

01:28:30
Speaker 3: Wait hold on.

01:28:32
Speaker 1: Like they're trying to.

01:28:33
They're trying to tell a very it's actually quite a.

01:28:36
I think that on any of these kinds of shows they're trying to

01:28:38
tell a very straightforward story And the question is what

01:28:42
is happening in the scene, in the scene itself, between the

01:28:45
actors?

01:28:45
What is the what is the beat, what's the story beat that's

01:28:48
being communicated?

01:28:49
What is the emotional experience of the actors?

01:28:52
And everybody involved kind of has to take their own place in

01:28:56
it at face value.

01:28:57
You have to believe that what you're doing is truly what

01:29:00
you're doing.

01:29:01
Speaker 3: So vitally bitly says when Tilly calls Christy Quincy

01:29:06
first day before she does an autopsy sketchy.

01:29:09
no, it actually isn't.

01:29:10
for this reason, the first day she knew her girlfriend Merrily

01:29:17
and she knew that whoever lived there was the doctor.

01:29:22
And if you're a person of a certain age you know who Quincy,

01:29:26
dr Quincy is.

01:29:28
I loved Quincy, i just think you're.

01:29:33
you know, like Lizzie, sometimes you're reaching for

01:29:37
stuff that isn't there.

01:29:39
Speaker 4: No, no, i get what Bob is saying And the thing

01:29:43
about it is that she might I don't know she might have ESP or

01:29:54
something like that.

01:29:55
She's psychic or something.

01:29:56
Speaker 3: ESPN.

01:29:58
Speaker 4: And sensed that Thadema was pregnant.

01:30:03
Speaker 3: That's weird.

01:30:05
Speaker 4: No, it's not weird.

01:30:06
I mean, while we're, while Bob was talking, I'm like thinking

01:30:10
about someone that I know that is pregnant now And I told her

01:30:16
that she was going to get pregnant And it was before, you

01:30:20
know, like they were trying and having no luck at all And I was

01:30:24
like, within a couple of months this is happening.

01:30:26
But the thing is like she just acts weird to me, You know, like

01:30:38
she just shows up like a signpost.

01:30:40
He's over here, I just need to drop this off.

01:30:44
I mean, yeah, she needed to drop the morphine off, but was

01:30:48
there something more to her dropping the morphine off?

01:30:51
knowing that Mary Mary, Mary L was an addict?

01:30:55
Like, did she already peg her on the bus?

01:30:58
I mean, she didn't really have to drop it off.

01:31:02
I don't know.

01:31:03
It's just to me she suspect there's something off about her

01:31:08
And maybe she just has a higher sensitivity to this place and is

01:31:14
plugged into this place.

01:31:16
Maybe she's just plugged into the earth, I don't know.

01:31:20
Speaker 3: Okay, So I need to.

01:31:21
I need to get myself yelled at.

01:31:23
I did forget.

01:31:24
Quincy wasn't a doctor.

01:31:25
Well, he was a medical examiner .

01:31:26
He was a doctor Right.

01:31:28
Speaker 1: Yeah.

01:31:29
Speaker 4: And that's kind of right, That is kind of a doctor,

01:31:31
it was Dr Quincy, but he was a medical examiner, but then, but,

01:31:36
but, but the but the but the person.

01:31:38
Speaker 3: The person's point was then she ends up doing,

01:31:41
christie ends up doing an autopsy the next day.

01:31:44
Speaker 1: That that is a good one, i get it.

01:31:45
Speaker 4: Yeah.

01:31:47
Speaker 1: I think.

01:31:47
I think it's a, it's a, it's a, you know, like there's a person

01:31:51
of a certain generation that would you know if there was a,

01:31:56
if there was a defense lawyer in the town.

01:31:59
Oh, my.

01:31:59
God, yeah, defense lawyer in the town.

01:32:02
There's a character of a certain generation that would

01:32:04
refer to that person as Matlock I was thinking the same Or Perry

01:32:08
Mason, but there's, but there's a person of another generation

01:32:11
that wouldn't.

01:32:11
It's a to me.

01:32:12
To me it's like it's a generationally relatable,

01:32:15
appropriate reference for that character.

01:32:17
It doesn't signify anything.

01:32:19
Yeah.

01:32:20
And again and again I would say, like there there are probably

01:32:24
all kinds of shifty behaviors, assuming that they're motivated

01:32:27
and purposeful and directed by the actor or or that they're

01:32:31
actually instructed to do it, which, again, i have a hard time

01:32:34
with, just just practically speaking.

01:32:37
I have a very hard time with that.

01:32:38
I think a lot of it can be explained by the fact that this

01:32:42
is a very unnatural, even from an acting perspective.

01:32:45
Even from an acting perspective , like as an actor, you're told

01:32:49
to do things that human beings would do.

01:32:51
In an unimaginable, unbelievable-ish type scenario

01:32:57
where, where, where part of the fun of it is going, how would

01:33:00
people behave?

01:33:01
Yeah, what would they do?

01:33:03
How would they act?

01:33:04
What would they?

01:33:05
and again, i I think if If Tilly's doing anything out of

01:33:08
the ordinary, tilly's doing out of the ordinary things from the

01:33:12
perspective of someone who's not yet situated in a place in

01:33:15
their life where they've kind of given up on all of the hassles

01:33:19
and the conflict and the, you know, like the tension, and that

01:33:23
they're just like, this is my fate and I accept it.

01:33:27
And if this is where I end up, this is where I end up, what am

01:33:29
I going to spend there?

01:33:30
And that probably.

01:33:31
I would suggest that probably is what, what motivates a lot of

01:33:35
behaviors and ways of speaking and ways of relating to other

01:33:38
characters and ways, and some of it is baked in and the writing

01:33:41
that someone who doesn't quite get that, who hasn't seen that

01:33:45
or experienced it or can't possibly relate to it yet

01:33:48
they're going to look at it and they're going to go.

01:33:49
We're.

01:33:52
Speaker 4: Uncle Lee Oh boy.

01:33:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to try to get to everything tonight

01:33:59
.

01:33:59
I know you're putting stuff in the chat.

01:34:01
We may or may not get to everything and, trust me, we're

01:34:05
going to have other people that are going to come on.

01:34:06
It's just the problem with this , this awesome show, is it's got

01:34:10
a lot of meat on the bone.

01:34:12
So much meat.

01:34:13
You can only.

01:34:13
You can only.

01:34:14
I don't want to be here for five hours, as much as I'd like

01:34:17
to be.

01:34:18
Speaker 1: I'm also.

01:34:18
This is you can.

01:34:18
You can label this episode the buzzkill episode.

01:34:22
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean Bob, Bob, you are.

01:34:24
Speaker 1: Shits all over every theory and says, oh no, you guys

01:34:29
are, you guys are cooked, you know you're.

01:34:32
You're just, you're free, you're.

01:34:34
You're doing that old school thing with VCRs where you like

01:34:37
pause the movie and you, you lean in really close and you're

01:34:40
like, can I see the seams in the rubber mask and the alien?

01:34:43
you know like stuff like that, you know it's like, oh, wait a

01:34:47
minute, that alien has a zipper in the back of their thing.

01:34:50
Maybe that meat?

01:34:51
Speaker 3: No, it's just a costume.

01:34:52
Hey Bob, this is what I've had to deal with all season long,

01:34:56
All season long It is fun, though I, you know, like you

01:34:59
hear.

01:35:00
Speaker 1: You hear me go on about the, the video game thing.

01:35:02
I'm like you know, i'm like I, I it's, it is fun.

01:35:04
It is a mystery.

01:35:05
It's a.

01:35:05
It's a genuine mystery.

01:35:06
I just think the mystery is in the world.

01:35:08
I don't think the mystery is in the characters.

01:35:10
Okay, i don't think.

01:35:12
I don't think anyone is suspect .

01:35:14
Frankly, I'm I'm going to go on the record and say I don't find

01:35:16
anyone suspect.

01:35:17
In fact, i, i to me, if there's a mole or if someone's suspect

01:35:22
or if someone's villainous or if someone's being shifty, um, it

01:35:26
kind of screws up the show for me personally a little bit.

01:35:31
I, i want this to be a show about a really weird, bizarre,

01:35:36
messed up, maybe magical, maybe otherworldly type place where

01:35:40
regular, ordinary people from our world get put into.

01:35:44
Yeah, and it could be an experiment, it could be a game,

01:35:48
it could be great.

01:35:49
I'm, i'm chilled with all of that stuff, but I'm, i'm not.

01:35:52
I just I don't think there's a whole lot of value or import in

01:35:56
dissecting the, the characters and trying to figure it through

01:35:59
allegiances and they're.

01:36:00
You know, this one's on the inside, this one knows something

01:36:03
like I don't know, like to me, to me, that makes it a different

01:36:06
kind of show than the one that I think it is, and maybe I'll be

01:36:09
wrong, maybe I'll be totally wrong.

01:36:11
Speaker 4: I just think she's weird.

01:36:12
But let me just ask you this Um were when you were getting

01:36:20
ready to execute your lines from the script.

01:36:23
They could you add lib, or did you have to say them as written?

01:36:31
Speaker 1: I mean I, i said them as written.

01:36:33
I mean you have to remember too that, uh, you know my stuff was

01:36:37
being done very much close to the beginning, right And and and

01:36:41
, at best like a couple of months into into production.

01:36:46
Um, so I mean, i think there were a few little bits and

01:36:49
pieces that got changed and some different words.

01:36:52
We definitely, there were definitely some things.

01:36:54
There are things that get cut, yeah, there are things that get

01:36:58
cut.

01:36:58
There are things that get filmed that then get cut.

01:37:02
There are things that get edited in ways that you just don't

01:37:05
foresee, that you can't anticipate.

01:37:07
Like when you, when you're delivering your performance, you

01:37:10
don't necessarily know what the thing is going to look like And

01:37:13
honestly, i don't think even even the writing and the

01:37:18
directors and the, they don't even know.

01:37:19
Like there's a whole other process of putting the story

01:37:22
together and editing after the fact, right After it's done.

01:37:26
So it's not really like the people on the ground in the

01:37:28
moment.

01:37:28
You're just shaping the clay that's going to get turned into

01:37:32
the experience that the viewers get put into.

01:37:34
Like to to go all the way back to that point in the process and

01:37:39
look at what an actor is doing on the day and say, Oh,

01:37:44
everybody there knows, everybody knows.

01:37:48
Speaker 3: What's going on When we get, when we get John, when

01:37:51
we get John in the chair here where you are, which is not

01:37:54
happening anytime soon.

01:37:55
We will, we will make sure we're like.

01:37:57
We know that, you know that, we know.

01:38:01
Speaker 1: John.

01:38:01
John Griff is not going to say squat.

01:38:03
Speaker 3: He's not going to say he doesn't want to take our

01:38:06
call.

01:38:06
Speaker 1: No, he's not going to tell you a word.

01:38:08
I mean he's, yeah, he's, and, but I mean, you know, I will say

01:38:12
like I, I my, my expectate, my hope, but really truly my

01:38:17
expectation is that he's got something cooked up in his head

01:38:20
that is really interesting, that that will amount to something

01:38:25
much more than just a puzzle room to solve your way out of,

01:38:29
Right, Yeah, If it.

01:38:31
If it's just a puzzle room to solve your way out of, it will

01:38:34
end up being kind of uninteresting, I think.

01:38:37
Speaker 4: I agree.

01:38:38
I agree with that.

01:38:39
Speaker 1: It's gotta it's gotta be more than that.

01:38:40
That's why I say I don't.

01:38:41
I don't think there's a lot of import to the theories that

01:38:44
little things that characters do from moment to moment contain a

01:38:47
whole lot of clues or a whole lot.

01:38:48
I really don't think that It's just my opinion.

01:38:51
I, i, i don't think they do.

01:38:53
Speaker 3: So, bob, one of your fans wants to tell you that you

01:38:55
don't want.

01:38:56
You shouldn't be the show runner.

01:38:57
They shouldn't have you doing your promo of the show, because

01:39:01
your optimism of this is over getting I I, i.

01:39:05
Speaker 1: This is an interesting point, though.

01:39:07
This is interesting.

01:39:08
I actually.

01:39:08
I actually think that I'm I'm giving the storytellers a lot

01:39:13
more credit and and praise as storytellers, because I think I

01:39:18
think they're doing something much more interesting than just

01:39:21
building a roller coaster ride.

01:39:22
I I, i roller coaster ride.

01:39:25
You get on it, you have thrills and chills and you scream and

01:39:27
stuff.

01:39:27
It's like oh, my God is that a thing Like and then off you go?

01:39:30
Speaker 3: I mean I, i just I just hope that they're, whether

01:39:34
it's a five year run or three, whatever year run it is, they

01:39:38
get to.

01:39:38
One, tell their story, but two, that they get a chance to make

01:39:45
sense so that the viewers feel like, is it something that they

01:39:50
did to get there?

01:39:51
I'd love to know why they're there.

01:39:54
I'm not necessarily how they get out.

01:39:55
But why?

01:39:56
What's the common thread?

01:39:58
Because the one thing about this show that's driving me nuts

01:40:01
is they're from all over the country And they all see the

01:40:06
same.

01:40:06
They all see the same tree.

01:40:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, i'm fascinated by it.

01:40:11
I really am.

01:40:12
I'm truly fine.

01:40:13
I'm totally in for it and I'm dying for season three, like

01:40:16
everybody else and I wish it was starting next week, like,

01:40:19
anyone who thinks that I'm sort of anyone who thinks I'm

01:40:22
shitting on the show is mistaken .

01:40:24
It's taken.

01:40:25
Yeah, i don't think you are at all.

01:40:27
Yeah, i just yeah.

01:40:29
And again, as I said, the theories are fun and I would not

01:40:33
dissuade someone from making theories and coming if that's

01:40:36
the fun part of it, if that's the fun game of it.

01:40:40
Speaker 3: No, i know it's not the same thing.

01:40:41
Aunt Kooie, aunt Kooie, oh, he's like the Aunt Kooie master

01:40:46
today.

01:40:46
So, folks listening to the podcast, every time we say Aunt

01:40:49
Kooie, we encourage you to take a drink so that Bob can come

01:40:52
back to civilization from Canada , cause he's still drunk from

01:40:57
Canada today, cause it's a all month long deal.

01:41:01
Speaker 4: Months long.

01:41:02
Speaker 1: Yeah.

01:41:03
Speaker 4: You know, i hope that it is just some kind of

01:41:08
supernatural thing like a trap that they all fell into, like I

01:41:17
know it's really odd.

01:41:19
Arizona, detroit, florida, texas, like you know, montana,

01:41:27
they're all you know.

01:41:29
Their origin is so different.

01:41:32
But I mean there could be vortexes that open at particular

01:41:39
times and if you're there you end up in this place.

01:41:44
Yep, you know, like Yeah, absolutely.

01:41:48
Speaker 3: So pay your taxes or you don't go in the void.

01:41:51
Speaker 1: That has nothing to do with taxes, but I just I mean

01:41:55
like Now there is something that happened this season that

01:42:01
so I was of the view that it was random, that it was just like

01:42:05
okay, maybe there's an opening quote, unquote, opening that

01:42:10
moves.

01:42:11
Speaker 4: Yeah.

01:42:12
Speaker 1: And it's just kind of moving around and there's some

01:42:16
randomness to it, like a bingo ball machine.

01:42:18
Okay Cool, that's neat.

01:42:20
Something happens at the beginning of season two.

01:42:23
That doesn't necessarily disprove that as a theory, but

01:42:28
it does.

01:42:30
Speaker 3: Uncle, Everybody take a drink folks.

01:42:34
Speaker 4: I've got a drop.

01:42:35
Speaker 3: She's got one drop left.

01:42:37
Speaker 1: And he looks like he's saying just during the

01:42:39
freeze moment I took a shot of of tequila, so that's what I do.

01:42:44
Yeah, but I was going to say that the thing that happened,

01:42:46
the thing that happens at the beginning of season two, that to

01:42:49
me is seismic, it's truly seismic.

01:42:54
Is Christie's fiance showing up ?

01:42:56
Yeah, yeah, cause it's like well, wait a minute, what are

01:42:59
the odds?

01:42:59
Like, what are the?

01:43:00
and they do they talk about it on the show.

01:43:02
It's not like the characters of the show.

01:43:04
Don't seize on that, there are a couple to do, right.

01:43:07
But to me that's sort of like okay, that is a significant

01:43:13
piece of evidence about something that I hope gets like

01:43:18
again to your point, alex.

01:43:19
Like as a viewer, i hope that that gets addressed in a

01:43:23
substantive, meaningful way.

01:43:25
I hope.

01:43:25
I hope that's not something that it was like we conveniently

01:43:28
did this so that Christie has a love triangle issue Like.

01:43:33
To me that's a little bit too convenient, given the odds that

01:43:36
someone like her is going to show up one day on a bus.

01:43:41
Because she was brought there or it's like.

01:43:43
That's the part that makes me go okay.

01:43:45
From a probability standpoint, this is significant.

01:43:48
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not impossible but it could happen.

01:43:52
But the fact that it opened in the same area more than once in

01:44:01
a short period of time like that's only been six months-

01:44:04
Right And then I mean, even the same area is only part of it.

01:44:09
Speaker 1: Like, even if the odds once you consider the odds

01:44:13
that it opens in the same area, given how much territory it has

01:44:19
to operate in, what are the odds that at that moment someone

01:44:22
connected to one of these other characters just happens to be

01:44:26
there at that exact moment?

01:44:27
Like it is something that implies more of a connection to

01:44:32
the characters tethered to the outside world.

01:44:34
But again, the sample size is small.

01:44:36
It's just Christie.

01:44:37
we haven't seen it from anybody else.

01:44:39
So Well, there's a theory going around.

01:44:42
Speaker 3: There is that other theory going around that Elgin

01:44:45
is the baby of Fatima and Ellis Ellis, because he saw that in

01:44:53
the bathroom when he-.

01:44:54
That's the other thing.

01:44:55
There should be no tubs, there should be no bodies of water in

01:44:59
from, because nothing-.

01:45:00
And the other thing is Donna is not allowed to leave Colin and

01:45:04
I house at night Because every time she does her frigging.

01:45:07
Real husband does so much goddamn shit.

01:45:09
Yeah, dale is on the shit list with me.

01:45:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah someone should have taken that.

01:45:14
Speaker 3: Chris might be a good guy but Dale's on the shit list

01:45:17
, man.

01:45:18
Speaker 4: I can't find-.

01:45:19
Speaker 3: He's got such a hard on for frigging Cordy, I mean

01:45:22
for Ellis, it's like come on man , yeah, he's a, yeah, he's a

01:45:27
wily commuter.

01:45:28
Speaker 1: You got to keep an eye on that guy.

01:45:29
He would be a problem.

01:45:30
He would definitely be a problem.

01:45:31
I wouldn't be leaving his door.

01:45:34
But no, it's true, i always thought that that theory was

01:45:40
reaching a little bit too.

01:45:42
I didn't see Again, although I mean that might be interesting.

01:45:45
but again, as with the mole thing, my question would be like

01:45:47
well, why, like what-.

01:45:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, i could see that happening, more than the

01:45:54
whole mole thing, because that would create a whole time thing

01:45:59
to that mystical stuff.

01:46:00
That said and I do want to kind of shift it because I know a

01:46:05
lot of the I mean it was a big deal with the show this season

01:46:09
was.

01:46:10
So last season, meaning season one, when Boyd and Sarah were in

01:46:19
the woods they saw the tree of bottles.

01:46:22
They broke a bottle that believed was her brothers And

01:46:30
one of the fears was his fears was cicadas And that's what kind

01:46:35
of possibly was the Brought the cicadas upon them.

01:46:40
Speaker 4: They brought the cicadas upon them?

01:46:43
Speaker 3: First off, what did you guys think of cicadas in

01:46:45
general as a terror thing?

01:46:48
And what do you think of that theory of those bottles?

01:46:53
are dead people's dream or fears?

01:46:55
Does that?

01:46:57
I mean that?

01:46:57
again, that's kind of an interesting twist when you look

01:47:00
at it.

01:47:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, could totally be.

01:47:03
Like I would buy it as a.

01:47:04
Again, this is my thing.

01:47:08
Maybe somebody would be pretty quick or ready to shit all over

01:47:11
this, but, like my, to me it's like, well, if that's one of the

01:47:15
rules of the game that they're in you know that you know

01:47:20
different characters have different character profiles and

01:47:25
that if a certain thing happens , that character profile

01:47:28
manifests in some sort of threat , it's like, well, it sounds

01:47:31
pretty programmable to me and something that I might expect to

01:47:34
see in a writeup.

01:47:35
You know about a video game or something like that.

01:47:38
Like to me, there's something compelling and interesting about

01:47:40
that That seemed so deliberate to me that, like Sarah relating

01:47:46
the cicadas back to her brother's experience, like if I

01:47:51
was taking close notes, that definitely would be something

01:47:54
that I'd write down And they did have dates in them.

01:47:56
Speaker 3: They did have dates in them.

01:47:57
I'm not saying that they didn't have the dates in them.

01:47:59
I'm just saying that that was something that people were kind

01:48:03
of saying And folks, we're not answering all the mysteries, We

01:48:07
don't know what the writers are gonna do or whatever.

01:48:09
We're just kind of bringing Bob into shit on everything.

01:48:12
I mean justifying everything.

01:48:15
And then we'll bring somebody else that wants to just go down

01:48:18
those deep dives as well.

01:48:19
No, no, i just thought that the cicadas were kind of an

01:48:24
interesting little thing because they are they're the most

01:48:26
disgusting things ever.

01:48:29
Speaker 1: They were.

01:48:29
It was out of that field for me .

01:48:31
Like you know, there's such a regional, there's gotta be a

01:48:35
real regional aspect to that too , right?

01:48:37
Like I certainly don't think of cicadas, as I mean I don't

01:48:41
think we have them here.

01:48:43
Speaker 3: Like I They don't have the-.

01:48:44
They don't have passports.

01:48:45
That's why.

01:48:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, they're not.

01:48:48
They don't have dual citizenship.

01:48:49
We I mean we have crickets, and I don't think we're talking

01:48:52
about the same insult, but we certainly No, no.

01:48:54
Cricadas are certainly not something we experienced.

01:48:57
Yeah.

01:48:58
Speaker 4: Like this big Bob, like they're big.

01:49:01
Yeah, huge.

01:49:02
Like I saw a you know, the exoskeleton of a molted cicada

01:49:09
on a tree And I'm like, oh my God, that's more than I wanna

01:49:12
see.

01:49:12
You know it had one fly into me .

01:49:15
I thought it was a bird that hit me, But I know that we've

01:49:20
had them in Massachusetts when I lived there And they're

01:49:24
definitely here in Georgia because that's where I've seen

01:49:28
the exoskeleton and had one fly into me.

01:49:30
Like they look like birds when they're flying.

01:49:33
Speaker 1: They're that big Did they swarm, like that, did they

01:49:36
swarm people?

01:49:38
Speaker 4: I've only seen one or two, Like I haven't.

01:49:41
I really haven't seen a lot of them.

01:49:44
Speaker 3: No, when I was a kid we had they come every like 27

01:49:46
years.

01:49:47
they like hibernate, but like we had them when I was a kid, it

01:49:51
was awful.

01:49:52
I mean, they were everywhere.

01:49:55
And they're big.

01:49:56
They were big suckers.

01:49:57
Speaker 4: They're big, they are , they're really big.

01:49:59
Speaker 3: They're like this big and they would run into you and

01:50:02
boom.

01:50:02
And they have like no, they don't swarm, They're just

01:50:06
everywhere And they're like.

01:50:07
They're kind of like the most annoying things ever.

01:50:10
They're loud.

01:50:12
It's like when the Red Sox went .

01:50:14
It's the most annoying thing ever.

01:50:15
But no, I just but they're like useless.

01:50:22
They're just, they're useless things.

01:50:24
Speaker 1: But it is an interesting, it's a very

01:50:26
interesting choice to use those And it was a real.

01:50:31
It was one of those things where I mean the sound was

01:50:36
interesting.

01:50:37
The sound, i mean, there was an interesting implication of

01:50:42
using cicadas as this sort of threatening element, which

01:50:46
really only lasts for a few episodes.

01:50:48
It's not like it's there from the very beginning, but it's

01:50:52
because they generate a sound that can go away And so, but I

01:50:56
did like that moment like I remember in the last episode the

01:51:03
moment where it's like, oh, the sound is gone.

01:51:05
Yeah, The character is gonna take note and they're like, oh,

01:51:06
we don't hear that.

01:51:08
Like, as a viewer, you caught it just before the character did.

01:51:10
We're like, oh, that sound isn't there.

01:51:12
That means something has passed , some threat of some kind has

01:51:19
passed, and maybe now there's gonna be something new which I

01:51:24
would say makes this season distinct from the end of season

01:51:28
one, which is that we really don't the end of season one.

01:51:30
You had the rain, you had the tower, and then you had the bus

01:51:33
pull up And it was a bit of a cliffhanger.

01:51:35
The cliffhanger at the end of this season is a cliffhanger for

01:51:40
Monica, but it's not.

01:51:42
Or Tabitha, sorry, but it's not a cliffhanger for everyone.

01:51:46
Like, certainly they're gonna wonder where she went, assuming

01:51:48
she did go somewhere, but I don't know where everyone else

01:51:53
stands.

01:51:55
Speaker 3: Well, something else happened in season one that was

01:51:58
kind of important.

01:51:59
You became an unemployed actor again.

01:52:02
Yeah, that's true.

01:52:02
Speaker 1: Although I don't think so.

01:52:03
You gotta control your drinking better Come on Bob, I had other

01:52:06
stuff too.

01:52:06
Yeah, you just had Harold, i don't have time.

01:52:10
Speaker 3: I know.

01:52:10
I mean there was much of a cliffhanger beyond Tabitha.

01:52:17
Speaker 4: Boyd solves the music box problem.

01:52:20
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, there is Jade.

01:52:20
Jade's lost in the cave.

01:52:22
Well, he's just in the cave.

01:52:24
Speaker 4: He's just down there.

01:52:24
He's just in the cave.

01:52:26
yeah, but like he's just in the cave, it's not really a

01:52:30
cliffhanger.

01:52:31
The cicadas stop, let's see, and then the three come out.

01:52:39
Alison Fadema got married.

01:52:41
Speaker 1: And Don is there.

01:52:44
Speaker 3: Okay, so wait, let's just take stock of him.

01:52:48
Speaker 1: You could do a time jump after this season.

01:52:50
Yeah, you could, if nothing really would be disrupted.

01:52:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, you couldn't.

01:52:55
Last season You had to pick up with that bus, but this season

01:53:00
you could, all right.

01:53:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, All right, I got a couple of quick fire

01:53:04
things because we're getting on the two hour mark and Crazy too

01:53:09
long.

01:53:09
Oh, my God Yeah and we haven't even like scratched the surface.

01:53:13
And, folks, if you're listening to this, we're gonna come back

01:53:17
and do this again because there's just too much And it's

01:53:22
like four o'clock in the morning for Bob And I don't know if Bob

01:53:26
wants to come back again.

01:53:28
Speaker 4: What are?

01:53:29
you talking about.

01:53:30
Speaker 1: No, but that's it.

01:53:33
Speaker 3: We're talking with Bob Mann the most optimistic.

01:53:35
Speaker 4: I haven't been here in a week.

01:53:36
Love it.

01:53:37
Speaker 1: We're talking to Bob.

01:53:38
Speaker 3: Mann, the most optimistic, theoristic member of

01:53:42
our team today.

01:53:45
Speaker 1: I'm loving this show and just taking the show down

01:53:47
for.

01:53:47
Just because I'm down for criticisms and down for shitting

01:53:52
on theories and being like, oh, you guys have too much time in

01:53:55
your hand, or whatever, none of that means I don't love the show

01:53:57
.

01:53:57
I'm loving this show.

01:53:58
I'm getting the kick.

01:54:00
Speaker 3: I love the performances.

01:54:01
Speaker 1: I hope people keep coming back and be giving stuff

01:54:03
to do.

01:54:04
It's just, it's amazing, and it is as you two have no doubt

01:54:10
discovered in your own way up to this point, but there are some

01:54:15
really, really lovely people involved in making a show.

01:54:17
No, they're all amazing honestly.

01:54:19
Yeah, they really are Such a nice.

01:54:22
We have been blessed.

01:54:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have been blessed from top to bottom.

01:54:26
And I say this Liz was the nicest one of the bunch in terms

01:54:31
of this.

01:54:31
She said yes first And then some guy, bob, said yes, and

01:54:37
then the rest of it is history.

01:54:38
I mean, everybody's been wonderful.

01:54:42
Speaker 1: Such nice people, wonderful, such nice people Yeah

01:54:44
.

01:54:44
And talented people.

01:54:45
They're talented, they're talented.

01:54:47
Speaker 4: You know, this week I've been on set with Ann Dowd

01:54:52
for a couple of days And I think Alex and I have compared Liz

01:54:57
Saunders to her multiple times when we've been talking And I

01:55:02
was sitting, i was having a conversation with Ann And all of

01:55:06
a sudden I'm just like, oh my God, i'm going to have Ann Dowd

01:55:10
and Liz Saunders in a buddy road trip comedy.

01:55:14
Might be funny, that might be hysterical.

01:55:17
Sure, why not?

01:55:18
Speaker 3: Well, i keep saying to everybody there shouldn't be

01:55:22
Harold that's nominated, it should be Liz and Scott and

01:55:27
Harold, cause I really do believe maybe I'm drinking the

01:55:30
Kool-Aid too much, but I think that they put the work in this

01:55:33
year to deserve some Those good performances.

01:55:37
Yeah, a great praise He just thought about killed me.

01:55:41
Speaker 4: He just like the man, child, you know, and then

01:55:47
confronting his past Like that, just about killed me.

01:55:52
Speaker 1: Yeah.

01:55:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was beautiful.

01:55:54
Speaker 3: Okay, so we really didn't even get to Victor that

01:55:56
much, but and we're going to get to him next time Cause I, like

01:55:59
I said, but I just have a couple other things that I'd love for

01:56:03
you guys and the viewers to kind of think about.

01:56:06
You've got the the, the logo that Jade's been looking at all

01:56:12
season long.

01:56:12
Yeah, the logo at the hospital is very similar.

01:56:17
It's very similar.

01:56:19
I there's not a lot of you know , it's just similar, i believe.

01:56:24
I think, like you guys believe, that she hasn't left the world,

01:56:27
but she's in another part of it .

01:56:30
I think the boy in white needs to get it, needs to get his mom

01:56:33
and gets the crap beat out of him, cause he's a little.

01:56:35
He's a little.

01:56:36
I don't know if he's good, or do you think the boy in white is

01:56:38
good or bad?

01:56:39
Speaker 1: Both of you.

01:56:40
That's a.

01:56:41
It's a great question.

01:56:42
I I I've not been given any.

01:56:45
I don't think we've been given enough information.

01:56:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why I think.

01:56:49
Speaker 4: You know he's good or bad.

01:56:50
Yeah, It's tough because when you look at symbolism, white is

01:56:53
always the good guy And there's just something about it that is

01:56:59
telling me that the color is betraying us.

01:57:04
Speaker 1: That we're being misdirected.

01:57:05
Yeah, Yeah it could be.

01:57:07
Yeah, i don't know what it is.

01:57:09
Speaker 4: I really don't know.

01:57:11
I mean, it's just a feeling, a hunch, whatever it is, but

01:57:16
there's just something about it.

01:57:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know Well, he thinks he's a hundred percent

01:57:23
evil, but that's okay.

01:57:26
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, he's not evil He's not evil, yeah, do

01:57:33
you think?

01:57:33
Speaker 3: do you think that we should have more Victor

01:57:36
backstory next season?

01:57:39
Speaker 1: I do find his whole thing interesting, yeah, but

01:57:43
he's, he's, he definitely is a mystery, kind of to be unfurled

01:57:48
a little bit.

01:57:49
There's some, there's some interesting things going on

01:57:52
going on with him for sure that I would love to, i would love to

01:57:56
know more about, like, i'm really interested in knowing

01:57:58
more about him, for sure.

01:57:59
Speaker 3: I mean, how cool was it that he has his own trailer

01:58:05
filled with cookies?

01:58:07
Speaker 4: Well, not filled with cookies, but.

01:58:10
Speaker 3: Filled with all sorts of stuff.

01:58:11
I think we were uncooking Bob.

01:58:12
There you go There, you go, yeah, yeah.

01:58:14
But how cool is it that he has his own trailer, You know he

01:58:19
inhabits.

01:58:21
Speaker 1: He's the one character who inhabits more of

01:58:24
the world than than anybody else .

01:58:27
Like he, he knows about things, he knows where to go, he knows

01:58:31
where to find stuff, he's got stashes, he's got drawings, he's

01:58:35
got memories Like there's, there's, you know, like I.

01:58:38
That's why I say like, i think that you know, put put him

01:58:41
together with another character likewise situated.

01:58:44
Suddenly you start unlocking things, the, the, the barrier to

01:58:48
doing that which serves the story, which serves the

01:58:50
narrative, is that he, he is still kind of stunted, yeah,

01:58:55
emotionally, and and he's very traumatized and he's not

01:58:58
interested in reliving it.

01:59:00
You know, he's not interested in going through it again, as as

01:59:04
as one is when they go through something like that, or or as

01:59:07
some people are, i guess, and so that's what's, that's what's

01:59:11
driving his closed, closed mouthedness.

01:59:13
Something has got to come along and open him up, and I feel

01:59:17
like it's going to be someone like Sarah, or it's going to be

01:59:20
someone you know, it's not, it's not going to be a character

01:59:23
who's trying to get answers.

01:59:26
Speaker 3: Do you think Victor's story being exposed could cause

01:59:28
more spoilers on I?

01:59:31
Speaker 1: mean, i think so.

01:59:31
Yeah, Like I think, i think that I think there's stuff

01:59:34
that's gone on with him that is going to fill out the fill out

01:59:38
the story of what's going on there and and maybe helpful.

01:59:41
But you know, yeah, i feel like where we're going with that

01:59:45
particular story is that that someone someone's got to call,

01:59:49
like look there's.

01:59:50
There's a neat little juxtaposition between what Jade

01:59:54
does and what Tabitha does relative to Victor Jade's

02:00:00
looking for answers.

02:00:02
Speaker 4: Yeah.

02:00:03
Speaker 1: And he apprehends that Victor is the key to

02:00:06
answering some of his questions.

02:00:08
And that's how he treats them.

02:00:09
He treats them as a as a means to an answer.

02:00:15
And so there's no.

02:00:16
you know, like he he it's.

02:00:18
he has a promising start with the whole violin playing and

02:00:21
stuff like that, but he eventually pushes Victor to a

02:00:23
place where Victor clams up.

02:00:24
But then Tabitha comes along and she kind of treats him a

02:00:28
little bit more like a, a wounded human being And suddenly

02:00:31
we start getting somewhere.

02:00:32
Yeah, Right Like that's like someone, someone's got to kind

02:00:36
of scoop him up and right, like that's why he, that's why he's

02:00:39
so taken with with the little, the little guy, with yeah, with

02:00:45
Ethan because he's like.

02:00:45
he's more like a peer right Like he.

02:00:48
he's on the same level with him , So he's not going to.

02:00:50
he's not going to push him in the same way that they, the

02:00:53
grownups, are going to push him, And I find it compelling, I

02:00:56
feel like.

02:00:56
I feel like it's got a lot of narrative potential.

02:00:58
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, I loved the when Ethan gave him a

02:01:02
picture of himself.

02:01:03
He drew a picture of himself.

02:01:05
That was cute.

02:01:05
That was cute seeing.

02:01:07
Speaker 3: And he wouldn't take it And he's like that's only for

02:01:09
dead people.

02:01:09
But so, so, bob, we're going to wrap it up.

02:01:13
What are, what are, some of the things that you're promoting

02:01:17
these days, besides King and Prawn?

02:01:19
Speaker 1: Oh man, yeah, i don't know We're.

02:01:23
we're a pro, we're hoping to.

02:01:25
I don't know when we're going to have season two of King of

02:01:27
Pond done, but I'm working on the music for that And I wrote a

02:01:31
.

02:01:31
I wrote a decent chunk of it And I was in another show.

02:01:34
Awesome.

02:01:34
I was in another show that filmed back in May, which I

02:01:36
don't know when that assembly is going to be done, but I think

02:01:39
the fall.

02:01:40
So that will be on Bell here in Canada and on out TV here in

02:01:44
Canada.

02:01:45
And then I have a film project coming up next month and over

02:01:52
the next little bit that I'm working on And did you have

02:01:55
everything on your website Like are you still doing dates?

02:01:58
Cause I know you do dates Sometimes you do dates for you

02:02:01
know what this this this summer is a bit up all over the place,

02:02:04
so I don't have any dates right now for my, for any comedy stuff

02:02:07
.

02:02:07
I really don't have anything lined up.

02:02:08
I've sort of stepped back a little bit because of how

02:02:11
unpredictable my next month and a half is.

02:02:13
The last thing I did was a couple of weeks ago And then I

02:02:17
said, okay, i'm not sure, i just don't want to commit to

02:02:19
anything or sign up for any gigs or shows because I don't know.

02:02:23
I don't know what July and August are going to, are going

02:02:25
to look like I totally understand.

02:02:27
Speaker 3: I totally understand.

02:02:27
Speaker 1: I've got shows like Sullivan's Crossing, and I don't

02:02:29
.

02:02:29
I don't know if my character is done on that show or not.

02:02:33
I don't think he is, but I don't know.

02:02:34
Actually know that for sure.

02:02:35
So I've got to, i've got to leave some space for that, but

02:02:40
and then we hopefully will be working on, you know, season

02:02:46
three of King and Pawn in the fall.

02:02:48
So you know, that might be a whole thing unto itself.

02:02:51
Speaker 3: And I've been involved in the writing of that

02:02:53
too.

02:02:53
We might just have to cover it, you know, just cover it You

02:02:56
have to find it, Alex.

02:02:57
Speaker 4: At least Sullivan Crossing is coming on Hulu.

02:03:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's coming in.

02:03:01
It's called C-Hulu and it's going to be on Hulu.

02:03:03
Yeah, we've got to, we've got to.

02:03:05
Speaker 3: We'll be able to see it.

02:03:05
It'll be great.

02:03:06
I think we'll be able to get a copy once it's done.

02:03:08
I don't know.

02:03:09
Speaker 1: I'm going to show Moonshine.

02:03:11
That was.

02:03:13
Speaker 3: I'm doing, I'm doing So.

02:03:17
Yeah, folks, just so you know we're going to be wrapping up in

02:03:21
just a minute.

02:03:22
Whenever, whenever, the He's back The satellites come back

02:03:27
from Canada.

02:03:28
Yeah, i'm back, i'm back, i'm good He's back.

02:03:30
No, but that's great.

02:03:31
I mean, it sounds like you got a lot of stuff on the back

02:03:34
burner or on the front burner And you got a graduating son.

02:03:38
I think I saw.

02:03:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, i saw him in high school last week and I got

02:03:43
a kid who graduated elementary school last week And yeah,

02:03:46
awesome, all kinds of fun.

02:03:48
Speaker 4: Congratulations Thanks.

02:03:50
Speaker 3: What's the first thing you tell your kid when he

02:03:51
graduates elementary school?

02:03:52
Get a job.

02:03:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, start doing your own taxes.

02:03:56
Speaker 3: Pretty much.

02:03:57
Speaker 1: Here are the forms.

02:03:58
Fill them out.

02:03:58
Yeah, here's how you cook eggs.

02:04:04
Speaker 3: But, folks, if you enjoy what Bob is doing, please

02:04:07
check him out on Sullivan's Crossing and all the other stuff

02:04:09
that he's doing.

02:04:10
If you enjoyed what we're doing , hit that subscribe button,

02:04:13
just like we did before.

02:04:14
Hit the bell so that you can get all of our stuff, because

02:04:20
we're gonna have a bunch of interviews that are coming up.

02:04:22
We've got a really special one that we're not gonna release yet

02:04:25
, but it is a pretty special one with it's Bob.

02:04:30
He's coming back again.

02:04:31
No, it's somebody a little bit smaller than Bob when it comes

02:04:36
to the marquee, but no, it's gonna be fun And again.

02:04:42
Bob, thank you so much for everything that you've done for

02:04:47
us, And I mean that anytime we've had any type of posting,

02:04:50
you repost stuff.

02:04:51
you've been one of our biggest cheerleaders and God knows we

02:04:59
need all the help we can get And after this it's only gonna get

02:05:01
bigger because you're positive attitude with the theories.

02:05:04
Yeah, that's great.

02:05:06
Speaker 1: And I wanna say I celebrate all the fan like I am

02:05:10
not complaining.

02:05:11
I love how many people are into this and debating about it and

02:05:16
talking about it.

02:05:17
That's never a bad thing, it's only a good thing, because it

02:05:21
means people are watching, they're interested and they're

02:05:23
having a lot of fun, having a good time.

02:05:25
So, yeah, nothing but positive vibes around.

02:05:28
Speaker 3: Well, folks, it's getting late, so the bells

02:05:30
ringing, so let our famous roller coaster constructor take

02:05:36
us out.

02:05:36
Get you home, let's go, come on .

02:05:41
Get in your house, let's go, come on.