39: Alive (1993)

[00:00:00] Mountains, nothing but mountains, we've had it, we've completely had it, no we haven't,

[00:00:42] in two of these mountains somewhere there's a green valley, see these mountains over here,

[00:00:49] there's no snow on them, this mountain must be 50 miles away, you think we can walk 50 miles?

[00:00:59] If we have to we will. I can't. Yes you can. I can't. I'm not as strong as you.

[00:01:09] You know what it is that we've lived this long, the way we have, 70 days, that we climbed this mountain,

[00:01:20] you know what it is? It's impossible, it's impossible and we did it. I know.

[00:01:33] I'm proud to be a man on a day like this, alive, that I live to see it, and see it in such a place.

[00:01:44] Take it in, I love you man. Look, it's magnificent, it's God, and it'll carry us over every stone, I swear.

[00:02:08] I swear it to you. Alright, we'll get Tintin, we're gonna send him back down to the plane, we'll take his extra food.

[00:02:26] You see, you see where the sun's gonna set? That way's west, into the west of the green valleys of Chile.

[00:02:35] We're gonna die you know, maybe, but if we die, we're gonna die walking.

[00:02:47] Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast, I'm Daphne. And I'm Penny. And I'm Lucy. And I'm Jenny.

[00:03:27] And this is Yellowjackets WTF episode 39.

[00:03:32] This episode we're covering the 1993 film, Alive.

[00:03:37] And we're very lucky to have a couple of special guests with us.

[00:03:43] Lucy, who, did you guest on Yellowjackets WTF before, Luce?

[00:03:49] Way back at the start, when we were just catching up on season one, and I did a feedback episode or two.

[00:03:55] Yeah, and then Jenny, you've been writing in to Yellowjackets WTF and had some really interesting and fun feedback.

[00:04:03] Thank you.

[00:04:04] And then there's also the coincidence that Lucy and Jenny know each other from outside of the podcasting world.

[00:04:10] Yes, yes.

[00:04:12] So we all cooked up this idea to talk about a different type of lost in the wilderness group of people.

[00:04:21] I just want to point out that I'm not the Jenny who also does podcasts. Jason's Jenny. I'm not that Jenny.

[00:04:27] I think people think we're the same Jenny and we're different Jennys.

[00:04:30] Just so people know, I'm not Jenny from White Lotus podcast, I am a different Jenny.

[00:04:36] You are Jenny from Saskatoon, right?

[00:04:40] Jenny from Saskatoon, yeah.

[00:04:41] All right, that's what I thought.

[00:04:43] I was like, wait, are you the Jenny we thought we were gonna have on here today?

[00:04:48] She is the Jenny. Will the real Jenny please stand up?

[00:04:51] We're all Jenny.

[00:04:53] We can all be Jenny.

[00:04:54] Today we are all Jenny.

[00:05:00] So Daphne is a big expert on the movie Alive, so I just wanted to throw it to her to lead us through this.

[00:05:09] It's interesting because when I went to see this movie in the theater, I originally did not want to see it.

[00:05:15] Came out back in 1993 and the concept of cannibalism kind of freaked me out a little bit.

[00:05:23] But I forced myself to go because I love stories like this.

[00:05:27] I love stories where people overcome insurmountable odds to survive or make it to the other side.

[00:05:36] And so I wanted to go and see it because it was based on a true story.

[00:05:41] And a lot of it in the movie is what happened.

[00:05:45] A lot of it's pretty accurate, I would say.

[00:05:47] It is. It's very accurate.

[00:05:50] And they did one thing that they did do was they changed the names of those who died.

[00:05:56] So they don't have the same names like they're all different.

[00:06:01] Oh, that's respectful, right? If they can't give consent to be a part of the movie.

[00:06:06] Right.

[00:06:07] They're no longer with us.

[00:06:08] But the others who did survive, those are their names.

[00:06:11] I think only one passed away, the older guy.

[00:06:19] No, actually, Koche Inchiarte passed away in July.

[00:06:25] Yeah, when I was looking up some things to kind of get reacquainted with this movie, that was one of the things that happened.

[00:06:31] There was a huge article that came out where all of or a bunch of the other players, survivors talked about him passing away and how it affected them and how they're all still really bonded by the experience that they had, which you can imagine, based on everything that happened in the mountains.

[00:06:54] So, yeah, it's really beautiful.

[00:06:57] Yeah. So in general, what did you guys think of this one? And when did you see it? Is it something that you saw just to cover it here? Is it one that you watched a while ago or? Yeah. Just what'd you think?

[00:07:10] I was 15 when I came out 15 or something like that.

[00:07:14] And I pretty sure I went to the theater to see it mostly probably because it was a bunch of cute boys.

[00:07:20] But I remember finding the movie so upsetting and so traumatizing and watching it this time. I don't know if it's just the state of the world or having two seasons of Yellow Jackets under my belt, but I was kind of like, I was not.

[00:07:35] It wasn't just like I remember being so like gripping and terrifying. And at this time, the plane crash is extreme.

[00:07:42] The plane crash scene is very scary. But I was watching it. I was like, I don't know that movie's very good. Like, it's like, kind of boring. I don't know. It was just but I don't know if it's just the state of the world has numbed us to horrors.

[00:07:58] Or maybe being 45 I'm just like, I've seen more things than when I was 15. But yeah, I remember I was expecting to be like blown away and instead I was like, and also those boys are there. It's gross to think they're cute now. I'm like, I'm an old lady.

[00:08:13] A very much younger Josh Lucas was in this movie. He played one of the players who dies early on in the movie. In addition to we've of course got Nando Parada is played by Ethan Hawke and Josh Hamilton plays Roberto Canessa, of course, which is why Lucy's on board.

[00:08:36] Hi, Josh, I hope you're listening. Hey, Josh is a fan of me. He said he listened to the podcast at least one time. So I'm taking that as true as he is listening right now.

[00:08:49] That's a win.

[00:09:20] I should be careful because my mom does occasionally listen and go like, did that happen? And I'm like, yes. And then when I was about 10 or 11, I had this habit of going to the local thrift store and buying just whatever like crappy paperbacks they had.

[00:09:34] I bought the book. I read about two chapters and got so freaked out that I like fully pushed into a corner of the room and just sat like staring at it like, and I am. So that was my childhood.

[00:09:51] And what I will say though, is I'm really mad that my brain framed it that way. Because this is actually a really hopeful story in a lot of ways. And I'm pissed that I let it fester in my brain as being a horror story for all those years.

[00:10:11] And I have a little like for the show notes, I have a little like recommendations. And one of the things I would recommend is there's an amazing episode of the You're Wrong About podcast about this, which just completely flips on his head and it's about, they have Blair Braverman, who's a survivalist on to talk about it.

[00:10:28] And they just make it this absolutely amazing story. And I actually think the film, with the exception of the first 20 minutes, which we'll talk about, does a pretty good job of being quite respectful about it. Like there's not a lot of gratuitous violence, but it was really interesting to watch through the frame of Yellowjackets as well.

[00:10:48] Because like, does Alive exist in the Yellowjackets universe? Because no one's mentioned it in the show. And I'm like, yeah, maybe I was wondering because they don't know because I'm like the timeline it should, it should you should have just heard girls Yeah, like oh man, are we turning into Alive or whatever. But yeah, it's weird. It's a weird omission and I don't know why.

[00:11:12] Yeah, it's kind of like the Walking Dead where zombies don't exist in the Walking Dead in media. Like they don't have zombie films. They don't have this but they have this so I'm just kind of like, what about you Penny?

[00:11:26] So I saw the film when it came out in theaters. I was in film school at the time. And there was a lot of controversy ahead of the film coming out there was a lot of people saying like, this is not a story that should be filmed it's exploitative.

[00:11:44] You're condoning cannibalism like there were a lot of people talking about it in like the news and so all my fellow film students and I were all like, well, we have to see it. So we, we all went in a big group.

[00:11:57] And I was, I was very blown away by the plane crash scene. I remember it that then and but I, I didn't feel horrified or traumatized by the film but you know I was 20 so I, I was a little older than you guys and were when you saw it and I, I remember thinking that it was like this phenomenal story of strength and that it was hard to believe that

[00:12:30] the strength of the two guys that walk out it's, is human like that that's a real true thing that happened.

[00:12:38] And then I have not watched it again until like two days ago. And I didn't realize until I was rewatching it how much the images from the plane crash are still in my head.

[00:12:52] Every time I'm on a flippin plane I think about that plane crash.

[00:12:56] Yeah, I think about the people one at a time falling out the back and like,

[00:13:01] awful and like the things flying around. And the other scene that really stuck in my head that I'd forgotten it stuck in my head is when they find the suitcase and he like is eating toothpaste.

[00:13:11] I remember that one really vividly I was like, Oh, yeah, I remember this.

[00:13:16] That's funny I didn't remember that at all and I was like, they found chocolate. Yes. And two clean underwear. I was so happy for them. Clean underwear.

[00:13:23] Clean underwear which I mean if you think about it they'd been out there at that point for weeks and weeks. And so that was just the simplest thing meant so much plus more sweaters and everything and

[00:13:38] a comic book I haven't read yet. That would be that'd be nice.

[00:13:42] Yeah, I mean they had nothing that they never showed even one person had a book or anything they had all they had was themselves each other to pass time.

[00:13:53] Yeah, that's why they prayed so much and sang hymns and stuff.

[00:13:56] Yeah, I think that it's also a story of faith.

[00:14:00] A story of faith because they were all Roman Catholics and so with a Fido except Fido he was agnostic Carlitos was heavily into prayer and saying the Rosary and trying to save them like trying to do what he could to try to save them because at that point you just

[00:14:22] it's hard not to give up because even later in the movie they talk about it was Eduardo was giving up. And that's when Nando gives him a little sneaker and tries to

[00:14:35] Did that really happen Daphne the sneaker?

[00:14:38] I have not found any evidence of that really happening.

[00:14:41] Because that felt like the most 90s film thing.

[00:14:44] I had to look that up. I was like, was there a child on this plane? They're not showing and the child was like I had to I you know spent time trying to figure out if there any kids on that plane because my in my

[00:14:56] Yeah, it was weird. I don't know who carries two pairs of baby shoes.

[00:15:00] Yeah.

[00:15:02] The mom who had I don't know for remember babies anyway, I was just like really worried that a baby had died and they were keeping the shoe detail.

[00:15:09] They were glossing over it.

[00:15:11] Like erasing the baby anyway, but yeah, it seems like there were no children.

[00:15:15] No children were harmed in the production of Alive or the events of Alive hopefully.

[00:15:20] The people on this plane though, were friends and family and in addition there were other people who hopped on to get a flight to go because Mrs. Alphonseen the woman that unfortunately gets crushed by the chairs.

[00:15:36] She was on her way to a wedding.

[00:15:39] Oh, so she didn't know anyone.

[00:15:42] She didn't know anyone there. So they didn't know her. She didn't know them.

[00:15:46] And the couple as well right Liliana and her husband they were they were not related.

[00:15:51] I don't think they were related. No, not to anyone.

[00:15:54] That was confusing because I kept thinking like why are they acting like they don't know each other because I thought you know what I mean?

[00:16:06] Like I was like, why aren't they like Mrs. Alphonse your son died but we'll take care of like I didn't know there were strangers on the plane that that clears up a lot for me.

[00:16:15] I think that's all my notes covered.

[00:16:17] I feel like if they made the movie now, they would have a setup where they'd spend less time agonizing over the right or wrongness of eating their dead friends and they would have spent more time because it was a two hour movie like it's pretty long.

[00:16:34] Yeah, it starts on the airplane. So I feel like we would have seen people getting like, you know, mingling at the airport and meeting each other and they would have said something.

[00:16:43] Yep boarding the boarding so we would have established who knew each other who didn't know each other.

[00:16:48] Yeah, I thought we'd get more backstory on all of them.

[00:16:53] I couldn't tell them apart. I was like, they all have dark hair.

[00:16:57] I was like all these boys look like each other and the women I didn't until this very minute I assumed it was Nando's mother who died.

[00:17:05] She did.

[00:17:06] With the legs though I get that the woman

[00:17:08] Oh, okay.

[00:17:09] So I was like, why are they being so indifferent to Nando's mother anyway?

[00:17:14] Yeah, shut up you cow. It's like she

[00:17:17] And then you feel like, you know,

[00:17:20] You saw after how upset Carlitos was when he realized he had said that and she died.

[00:17:27] Yeah. Oh yeah. I was ashamed. He said

[00:17:29] He was ashamed of that.

[00:17:31] Yeah, there were a couple of bits where like, I felt they they pushed in some movie like I have to say I could have lived without Kinessa sort of having a slightly creepy crush on Nando's sister it's like I'll rub your feet and I'm like, oh, not loving these vibes.

[00:17:46] I'm like, could have lived without that.

[00:17:49] Also, like,

[00:17:50] I didn't find that creepy. That's funny.

[00:17:51] No, I didn't either. I thought he was just trying to take care of her.

[00:17:55] I was more creeped out by the mechanic.

[00:17:58] I loved, I thought the mechanic was hysterical. So we recently rewatched Armageddon and there's this amazing bit in Armageddon where like, Steve Buscemi gets diagnosed with space dementia and they're like, he's got space dementia. Just tie him up.

[00:18:12] Steve Buscemi just sits like tied up in a chair being crazy. And I was like, oh, that guy's got snow dementia. And then I just really enjoyed every scene he was in because he was so bonkers and they were all just like

[00:18:22] But he then disappears. Like does he

[00:18:24] He dies.

[00:18:25] He dies.

[00:18:26] In the avalanche.

[00:18:27] In the avalanche.

[00:18:28] Yeah, they show his body coming out because they're pulling the bodies out after the avalanche. He dies during the avalanche.

[00:18:34] Again, they all kind of look the same to me.

[00:18:36] There really should have been like a tally or like a list of like Hunger Games style who's gone now.

[00:18:42] It was Ethan Hawke and a bunch of men who look like each other.

[00:18:45] Ethan Hawke plus everyone.

[00:18:48] Yeah.

[00:18:50] So what was everyone's most 90s moment of the film? Because Ethan Hawke was definitely mine. I was like, it's like, there's a full cast here. Ethan Hawke is also here.

[00:19:00] He's amazing.

[00:19:01] He's young, but I remember him from Explorers, which came out in 86 where when he really was like super young, but he looks so young in this and haven't seen him in Moon Knight, which came out it was a TV series.

[00:19:19] Marvel TV series came out last year. And he's aged it's like, oh yeah, we're kind of the same age and he's grown older too. Okay. But I'll always see him as being young. But did you guys notice that his beard, he did a little beard like everyone else.

[00:19:38] He refused to.

[00:19:40] He refused to.

[00:19:42] Yeah.

[00:19:43] Yeah.

[00:19:44] Well, that's the thing. Some of them were clean shaven and I guess some men don't grow beards.

[00:19:49] Yeah.

[00:19:50] But he made a choice.

[00:19:52] Yeah.

[00:19:53] He made a choice.

[00:19:54] Not to.

[00:19:55] That's funny.

[00:19:56] I mean, they also didn't, Josh Hamilton's hair didn't get long. You know, he was pretty clean shaven and trimmed also.

[00:20:04] I don't know, he got quite a nice beard by the end.

[00:20:06] Yeah.

[00:20:07] Wearing his little blue jacket like hanging out.

[00:20:09] Yeah.

[00:20:10] He's so young in that.

[00:20:12] I agree with you.

[00:20:13] I feel like the context for Yellowjackets, especially if you don't also listen to the Walking Dead cast is Josh Hamilton plays a villain in the final season of The Walking Dead and we got to interview him.

[00:20:23] And I may have started a hashtag called Horny for Hornsby because I was quite taken with him and Jason arranged it so we could interview him, which was lovely and he was a really, really nice guy but we actually spoke a bit about Alive at the end of the interview, which was cool because I hadn't put two and two together and realized that he was Kinessa.

[00:20:41] And from what he said and from the stuff I've read about it, it sounds like it was a really amazing experience.

[00:20:49] And I think he and Ethan Hawke are still best pals, I think they still hang out.

[00:20:53] And he had some great anecdotes about going to dinner with the rugby team.

[00:20:57] I'll tease you and you can go and download that episode of The Walking Dead cast but yeah, the last ten minutes or so we spoke about Alive.

[00:21:05] Sadly he hadn't seen Yellowjackets so couldn't comment on whether it was similar or not.

[00:21:09] But he spoke very fondly about it, it sounds like it was a good shoot for all of them.

[00:21:14] I think that comes across in the film that they're quite well bonded as a cast, it looks like they did a good job of keeping that together.

[00:21:23] Yeah, they were also isolated and only had each other for company because of how they were shooting in the mountains.

[00:21:33] It was in Canada wasn't it? It was BC.

[00:21:36] Which is ironically near where we think the Yellowjackets are.

[00:21:41] But I think that that kind of experience can either be a complete disaster or you end up feeling like this incredible bond.

[00:21:51] Because it's kind of like the team in the movie, we're out all together alone in the snow without our families and we have only each other to rely on to make this film.

[00:22:03] I think there's similar stories about the Lord of the Rings movies.

[00:22:06] I was thinking about that, yeah.

[00:22:08] Yeah, how that crew and cast really bonded because they were on the other side of the planet from where most of them live.

[00:22:16] I have two 90s things, Lucy.

[00:22:19] Amazing.

[00:22:20] You asked about 90 moments. Well, one of them was there's no queer romance at all.

[00:22:27] At least statistically some of them had to be gay.

[00:22:30] You cannot tell me. Yeah, some of them were rugby players.

[00:22:33] And so if you made that movie now, there would be something.

[00:22:38] There was no undertone of romance at all. Nothing.

[00:22:41] There was good friendship, but there was no glances.

[00:22:44] There was no one mourning the death of a lover.

[00:22:46] Like there was no spirit, whatever.

[00:22:48] And so I thought that was interesting because if you made that movie now, there's absolutely no way you would allow that film to happen.

[00:22:54] Because people would be like, where's the queer representation?

[00:22:56] So I thought that was interesting.

[00:22:58] That was about very 90s to me.

[00:23:00] There also wasn't any gay panic, though.

[00:23:03] Like they had to spend all kinds of time sleeping bundled up together and not even a glimmer of any of them being like, no homo, you know?

[00:23:12] Yeah.

[00:23:13] Which is nice.

[00:23:16] I also felt, OK, so I don't know.

[00:23:21] But like 1972 Uruguay, was pizza really a thing?

[00:23:26] Yeah, I did wonder.

[00:23:27] I don't know.

[00:23:28] Who was it? I don't know what the name of the guy was.

[00:23:31] Carlitos.

[00:23:32] Carlitos.

[00:23:33] Every 15 fucking minutes he's like, get the pizza.

[00:23:36] I'll pick up the pizza.

[00:23:39] Don't forget the pizza.

[00:23:40] And I was like, I don't know.

[00:23:42] Like my mother remembers eating pizza for the first time in Canada in the 60s.

[00:23:46] Like I don't know if pizza was like ubiquitous to culture.

[00:23:51] And so that felt like a real 90s, like let's throw pizza in here for the kids.

[00:23:55] Anyway.

[00:23:56] Yeah, I love pizza.

[00:23:57] Because this movie is so good for kids otherwise.

[00:24:00] He did it in such a joking way too.

[00:24:02] He's like, I'll pay for the pizza if you go get it.

[00:24:05] Knowing that they were so far deep.

[00:24:08] I mean, that would never be able to happen.

[00:24:10] Like I lived in Mexico.

[00:24:12] It's interesting because I lived in Mexico as a teenager.

[00:24:14] I went on an exchange and I would live with a family and I went to high school and I was there in like 96.

[00:24:21] Very shortly after this, I'm sure I was terrified of the airplane flying into Mexico thinking, you know, Central America.

[00:24:26] Anyway, but like I remember we went out for pizza as a family and it was like a new phenomenon.

[00:24:33] So yeah, I just I had a hard time with the pizza business.

[00:24:38] I wonder if we have any listeners in Uruguay.

[00:24:41] I really want them to write in and tell us the history of pizza there.

[00:24:45] Maybe pizza's, you know, yeah.

[00:24:47] There was also a Coca-Cola box or something sticking out of the snow.

[00:24:52] And I was like, yeah, probably. Coke was pretty universal.

[00:24:55] But I was like, is this product placement?

[00:24:57] This is off.

[00:24:59] What a strange place to put a coke can.

[00:25:03] Like, okay, cool, I guess.

[00:25:05] Yeah, yeah, those were my, I don't know.

[00:25:08] I was laughing because part of me was like, these boys with floppy hair is so early 90s.

[00:25:12] But then I was like, actually, it's also 70s, which is what we're in.

[00:25:15] So how much of this is 70s and how much of it is 90s?

[00:25:18] It kind of comes in cycles, I think.

[00:25:21] Yeah, the hair, it always comes back to it, except the sideburns aren't always a thing.

[00:25:27] No.

[00:25:28] Ethan Hawke's greasy mop was just, that's just his hair.

[00:25:32] Yeah, he always looks like that.

[00:25:34] He always has greasy, unwashed cannibal hair.

[00:25:37] Greasy.

[00:25:39] I have a, I kind of almost met Ethan Hawke one time.

[00:25:44] What?

[00:25:45] Yeah, so it was 1994.

[00:25:49] I was a few weeks away from graduating college and I was at, I was on campus and I was running around campus with a friend of mine.

[00:25:57] We were looking for something fun to do.

[00:25:58] It was like a Saturday night.

[00:26:00] And we were trying like different places, like there was a bar on campus.

[00:26:03] We tried there and we were looking for parties.

[00:26:05] Anyway, at one point we're standing in the middle of like an almost empty space near all the campus mailboxes.

[00:26:11] And I see this group of guys standing, I don't know, like 20 feet away from me.

[00:26:16] Maybe 25 feet.

[00:26:18] And I'm like staring at them.

[00:26:20] Now I have to admit, I was stoned.

[00:26:22] And I'm staring at this group of guys and they seem odd to me for some reason because they seem like they don't belong.

[00:26:29] And then I'm like, that one guy just really looks a lot like Ethan Hawke.

[00:26:34] And then my friend comes over and he's like, you ready to go?

[00:26:37] And I go, a point directly at Ethan Hawke.

[00:26:41] And I go, doesn't that guy right there in my full voice, doesn't that guy right there look like a short, dirty version of Ethan Hawke?

[00:26:52] And then my friend's like, I don't know who that is.

[00:26:57] And then he just like drags me away.

[00:26:59] And then the next morning I get a call from a friend and she's like, oh my God, I met Ethan Hawke last night.

[00:27:04] He was on campus.

[00:27:05] And I was like, oh shit.

[00:27:06] Like, oh.

[00:27:09] I'm sorry.

[00:27:12] But in my defense, he was very grubby.

[00:27:15] Like just grubby.

[00:27:17] Are you just saying that he didn't really have to try too hard to get the look for this movie?

[00:27:24] Yeah.

[00:27:26] He looked so much cleaner in the movie than when I saw him that night on campus.

[00:27:32] He was like, he looked like he had been in an oil disaster.

[00:27:36] Like he was greasy.

[00:27:38] It was so gross.

[00:27:39] Oh my God.

[00:27:40] Well, it was the 90s and you know, grunge was a thing.

[00:27:43] Yeah, grunge.

[00:27:44] Yeah.

[00:27:45] There's lots of rumors about that night of like who he hooked up with and all this other stuff.

[00:27:51] So what you're saying, Penny, is that if you'd made different decisions like Uma Thurman might never have happened, you could have been Mrs. Hawke?

[00:27:59] Yeah, it could be me and Ethan.

[00:28:01] I'd be cool with that.

[00:28:03] And then Maya Hawke would be my kid?

[00:28:05] Awesome.

[00:28:06] I mean, she's cool.

[00:28:07] I passed him on the street once in New York City and tried very hard not to look at him.

[00:28:11] I was like, there's a famous person.

[00:28:13] Don't stare at his face.

[00:28:14] Don't stare at his face.

[00:28:15] Like we can't look at him, but there's Ethan Hawke.

[00:28:17] But don't look at him.

[00:28:18] Don't look now.

[00:28:19] He was with his kids or something.

[00:28:21] I guess I saw Maya Hawke too.

[00:28:23] Back in the day.

[00:28:24] As a child.

[00:28:25] As a child.

[00:28:26] All right.

[00:28:27] So let's kick off points.

[00:28:31] And I think, Penny, we should let our guests go first.

[00:28:35] I agree.

[00:28:36] So Lucy or Jenny, who wants to go first?

[00:28:39] I have lots of things to say.

[00:28:41] I'm excited.

[00:28:42] All right.

[00:28:47] I cede the floor to my honorable Jenny from Saskatoon.

[00:28:52] Oh, okay.

[00:28:53] Okay.

[00:28:54] So I think this point, I don't know if I'm going to give, say, like, I don't really maybe.

[00:29:00] Okay.

[00:29:01] Basically, I read something and I was looking this up last night and it was.

[00:29:06] Now you might know this, but it was a Wikipedia entry about this.

[00:29:11] And it was like, Wikipedia has those like references to popular culture, like thing in popular culture.

[00:29:16] So I was reading about the plane crash and then it says Yellow Jackets was directly inspired by this story.

[00:29:21] Now, it didn't have a citation, so I don't know if it's true.

[00:29:26] I love this.

[00:29:27] But watching the film, I wrote down so many ways that Yellow Jackets, that this movie, that Yellow Jackets parallels it.

[00:29:35] And then all the ways it diverges.

[00:29:37] Awesome.

[00:29:38] And it was really interesting to me to kind of, because this is the Yellow Jackets podcast.

[00:29:43] I was like, okay, I want to talk about how it relates to Yellow Jackets.

[00:29:45] Yes.

[00:29:46] And so the way that it parallels it.

[00:29:48] So, okay.

[00:29:50] I have a big piece of paper here.

[00:29:54] So the way it starts, there's a John Malkovich quote.

[00:29:58] What I love is that we never find out who John Malkovich is.

[00:30:01] Because you're watching it and you're like waiting for it to be one of the guys, like it's Nando or whatever.

[00:30:06] But it's not because at the end he says they came and saved us.

[00:30:09] So he's one of the voices, maybe Carlitos.

[00:30:12] He is Carlitos because at the beginning they show the photos.

[00:30:19] He's showing photos and he says, and this is me.

[00:30:22] And it's Carlitos.

[00:30:23] Okay.

[00:30:24] So the quote that he gives is he met the God that's hidden by what surrounds us in civilization.

[00:30:35] And that's the God I met on the mountain.

[00:30:38] So if you think about the wilderness, they don't see it in, they see it in the mountains, but they don't necessarily see it outside.

[00:30:48] So I thought that was really like, okay, we're setting us up for the same kind of story.

[00:30:52] Also, weirdly, Roberto, Josh Hamilton, he says, I didn't have a premonition of this crash.

[00:31:00] But the never mentioned, he's like so much for ESP and we're like, what?

[00:31:04] Like, are you ESP?

[00:31:06] I was like, are you the Lottie of this story?

[00:31:08] Like it was a weird random mention.

[00:31:11] I guess in the 70s people cared, like people, ESP was like a thing.

[00:31:14] But I'm like, I guess that character was supposed to be psychic.

[00:31:19] But never again, they didn't turn to him and be like, so what's going to happen?

[00:31:22] Like it just.

[00:31:24] Yeah, no.

[00:31:25] Could you have seen the avalanche?

[00:31:28] Not that we could have done anything about it, but maybe.

[00:31:31] Yeah, it was weird.

[00:31:32] So that was an odd thing.

[00:31:34] But also kind of because that's sort of Lottie's jam.

[00:31:37] And then also I've always really loved how in Yellow Jackets, the creative use of sweaters as hats.

[00:31:47] But they do it in this movie.

[00:31:49] I was like, the way they're wrapping their heads in sweaters and like turning jeans into backpacks.

[00:31:55] And like the way they're using the clothes around them is, I was like, oh, I guess maybe the Yellow Jackets costumers are not as creative as I thought because he just got the ideas from alive.

[00:32:05] So it was like, so there's interesting parallels.

[00:32:08] And also the way Jackie and like Jackie's the team captain.

[00:32:13] And then what's his face?

[00:32:14] Who's the team captain?

[00:32:15] Antonio.

[00:32:16] Antonio. They're both team captains and they kind of start off being, trying to lead and like having plans, but everyone ignores them and abandons them and eventually they die.

[00:32:29] So they're useless.

[00:32:31] I think Antonio definitely tries harder than Jackie to be the leader.

[00:32:36] Because he really is.

[00:32:38] He really, until his skill set fails.

[00:32:42] Like he takes them as far as he can.

[00:32:44] And he's like, I can't, I can't do anymore.

[00:32:48] Yeah, I think when they ate the chocolate and drank all the wine when they thought they were going to be rescued.

[00:32:55] And he's in his head thinking okay it could be a land rescue, it might take time, blah, blah, blah.

[00:33:00] But that's not what everyone else was thinking and they kind of abandoned his thinking at that point.

[00:33:08] I think that's when he was kind of just, I think that's when he relinquished.

[00:33:12] Yeah.

[00:33:14] Canessa kind of takes the lead then doesn't he because he kind of atones for having drunk all the wine and eating all the chocolate but his journey is quite interesting in that sense.

[00:33:23] It's more like maybe, I don't know, a Shauna, I don't know, I don't know who the parallel and yellowjackets would be, it's that journey of making mistakes but maybe more.

[00:33:33] Yeah, I was thinking that maybe sort of being an inadvertent like oh I fucked up but I'll help and I'll make it better kind of thing.

[00:33:40] He opens the bottle of wine right at the start and just starts drinking and passes it out. That's before they go and take all the chocolate and everything.

[00:33:49] Because he's excited to think that oh we're going to be rescued now so I can drink this.

[00:33:54] So I guess that was my first point is like how they are parallel.

[00:33:58] I like that. Now my head is going through who is who.

[00:34:04] We need a Buzzfeed quiz.

[00:34:07] Yeah.

[00:34:08] Which Alive member are you?

[00:34:10] And I'm trying to figure out which character or which person in Alive is the equivalent in Yellowjackets.

[00:34:20] I don't know that there's going to be many one-to-one equivalencies except for maybe Laura Lee and Carlitos.

[00:34:30] I think it's kind of...

[00:34:32] I'm bummed in Yellowjackets we don't get to see somebody like Laura Lee and how she would respond to where things have gone.

[00:34:40] Like I'm sad that she's not there anymore.

[00:34:43] I think we needed her.

[00:34:45] I think she would have kept things... kept them from going like to the savage extent that they've gone.

[00:34:54] Because she was deeply rooted in religion but also the way they're looking at eating their former teammates in Yellowjackets as this is food okay here's a ceremony.

[00:35:12] It's not like the communion type decision that they made in Alive.

[00:35:18] Yeah it's very different.

[00:35:20] My first point was actually how they're cool. I love when that happens.

[00:35:26] Because they're so similar but I was like well where do they diverge?

[00:35:30] And Peter and I had a really interesting discussion in the car about the fact that women aren't really in this film.

[00:35:36] And he's like do you think if they made it now they would...

[00:35:39] But I was like well not really because I think this film necessarily has to be about that group of men.

[00:35:44] For once I'm not like where are the women?

[00:35:48] Because I'm like well that's not the point. The point is that it's about this group.

[00:35:51] So I'm going to try and not be like well when girls do it it's better and when boys do it it ends up being a shit show.

[00:35:56] Because it's not as simple as that.

[00:35:58] So with the Yellowjackets, although they go through the trauma of the plane crash, it's a slow descent into starvation.

[00:36:06] In Alive, immediately the table is wiped. There's nothing.

[00:36:11] There's no vegetation. It's snow. It's minus 30.

[00:36:14] Some of them had never seen snow before which blows my mind that they just hadn't even had that experience.

[00:36:20] So in Yellowjackets they start in summer and to be honest things are quite...

[00:36:24] They have a lot of victories in the sense of they find the cabin, they find the lake, they find the gun, they're able to hunt.

[00:36:31] The descent out of civilisation is actually much slower and it's only when the winter comes in that they're suddenly like

[00:36:39] oh shit this is actually getting really real now.

[00:36:44] The group dynamics are different.

[00:36:46] I think there's something quite simple about the male relationships in that film.

[00:36:52] Whether that's been flattened for the film or not I don't know because I'm with you Jenny and I'm like

[00:36:56] there has got to have been at least two or three gay people on that plane.

[00:36:59] But there's also this question of being deeply entrenched in the Catholic church.

[00:37:05] It seems like there's a kind of pragmatic level of bonding there but with the girls in Yellowjackets

[00:37:13] there's so much more intrigue because we've seen their lives back home.

[00:37:18] There was something on the plane actually where someone was pissing someone else off and it made me think of Ty.

[00:37:23] They were talking about someone being a weak member of the team or something like that.

[00:37:27] I was like oh yeah if that was Yellowjackets they'd have had their leg broken.

[00:37:30] One of the team members missed the plane which I have not been able to figure out if that was real or not.

[00:37:36] I've researched it.

[00:37:38] What's her face in Yellowjackets who doesn't get to go?

[00:37:41] And she stays home.

[00:37:43] Ali.

[00:37:45] Ali. Trauma Bond.

[00:37:47] Ali, I love her.

[00:37:49] So the group dynamics are quite different.

[00:37:51] I don't feel like we get to know the interior lives of these guys very much at all

[00:37:55] which I guess is partly because it's based on reality.

[00:37:57] So they're not going to be like, so that's when I started having really gay thoughts.

[00:38:00] They're just not going to share that with people are they?

[00:38:04] The timelines are really different.

[00:38:06] So I'm not undercutting what they went through in a live because it's terrible.

[00:38:11] So when I say it was only 72 days I know that living 72 days in that is really shit

[00:38:17] but in Yellowjackets it's 19 months.

[00:38:20] So I did some maths and I think that's 8 times as long.

[00:38:23] So that's a much longer time frame.

[00:38:26] And with a live I think there's just this relentlessness from the start.

[00:38:30] There's no vegetation, there's no water, it's freezing.

[00:38:33] Things get real really really quickly.

[00:38:36] But one of the things I liked about Yellowjackets season 2 that I was reminded of

[00:38:40] because I remember when we covered season 1

[00:38:42] I was like if the whole reveal is that they were cannibals that's going to piss me off

[00:38:46] because actually it's quite justified that they would be at that point.

[00:38:51] It has to be something more than that.

[00:38:53] Where we're going now is the reveal is they were hunting and killing each other in a sadistic game.

[00:38:59] And that's what's shocking and horrible rather than the eating people side of things.

[00:39:04] Because in a live I think they do this very ethical, there's about half an hour debate

[00:39:11] maybe it's like communion and you can eat me or you cannot eat me kind of thing

[00:39:15] and I'm like that's probably more realistic to be honest that they would have that discussion.

[00:39:20] It's like a third of the film.

[00:39:22] It was interesting.

[00:39:23] It's a third of the film where they debate whether or not this is an okay thing to do

[00:39:26] and how they're going to do it and how they feel about it and how God's going to feel about it.

[00:39:32] I think they were, I think the filmmakers were very aware that people thought

[00:39:39] they were going to be exploitative and sensational about the cannibalism.

[00:39:43] So they may have over corrected to the it was such a struggle for them to get to that decision part of it.

[00:39:52] And also the way that they don't know who they're eating.

[00:39:56] Like they don't know.

[00:39:58] When Josh Hamilton is like I don't know who it is.

[00:40:02] I mean I think it's kind of funny that they directly went to eat someone's bum.

[00:40:06] Yes, but then he says that wasn't a woman's butt or something.

[00:40:12] I just lost it.

[00:40:13] I was like how the fuck would you know?

[00:40:15] I guess it's the bum sticking out of the snow that that's the highest point on a body.

[00:40:19] But I was like well anyway.

[00:40:21] Well, it's also probably the easiest place to cut into a frozen body from that is face down right?

[00:40:28] Like the butt is going to be the thickest amount of meat and fat that they need.

[00:40:35] Only a man's butt though not a woman's butt because he doesn't know what those look like.

[00:40:40] That line the way he said it was just like it definitely wasn't a woman's butt.

[00:40:44] Well, because Nanda was asking like you didn't eat my sister.

[00:40:50] Yeah, but then I was a bit like, you know, Canessa is like I know what her butt looks like.

[00:40:56] Like no, I don't. Sorry. It's fine.

[00:40:57] I don't fancy.

[00:40:58] It was interesting because I read that and so Daphne you probably know more than me.

[00:41:02] But that when they found them, they were 15 untouched bodies and the other bodies were like skeletal and they've eaten the hearts and the livers.

[00:41:12] It's almost like we're going to eat as much as we can of one.

[00:41:15] We're not going to just like smorgasbord everybody.

[00:41:17] Like well, you won't desecrate every single body we have.

[00:41:20] Whereas we'll use as much as we can of one and then we'll move on to the next in a way.

[00:41:25] And whereas with yellow jackets are like one person dies.

[00:41:28] We eat the entire body and then the next person dies.

[00:41:30] We eat the entire body.

[00:41:31] So that was I mean, I guess alive.

[00:41:33] They had more bodies to choose from.

[00:41:35] Oh God.

[00:41:36] Yeah.

[00:41:37] Well, there's a weird.

[00:41:38] Yeah.

[00:41:39] Yeah.

[00:41:40] Well, and also they were frozen.

[00:41:41] Right?

[00:41:42] So they weren't rotten the way that all the people that died in the yellow jackets plane crash that they buried by the plane.

[00:41:49] They can't eat any of those people.

[00:41:52] There's a weird quote.

[00:41:53] I think it's in one of the survivors accounts or something or it's just kind of accepted fact that in a weird way, the avalanche saved their lives in the sense that it provided more body which thought but it's that thing of like, oh yeah, I guess if those people hadn't died in the avalanche is a really horrifying part of it like that.

[00:42:12] That's like my Oh my God awful like that.

[00:42:16] The first 20 minutes I will gladly never watch again because it stresses me out so much but I'd forgotten that the avalanches as claustrophobic and terrible as it is.

[00:42:25] That's what a thing to happen halfway through that ordeal and I kind of wonder if what we saw at the end of season two of yellow jackets is their equivalent of the avalanche because it's the game changer of like wrecking the sanctuary that they have, although at least with the avalanche they could clear the snow out eventually.

[00:42:44] I suppose we do see them stuck in a blizzard as well in season two don't we like they can't go outside during Sean is ordeal.

[00:42:50] But yeah, it's it's traumatizing traumatizing stuff.

[00:42:55] Yeah.

[00:42:56] Yeah.

[00:42:57] Although it's interesting because as a Canadian living in a place now, not all Canada has snow, just so you know there are parts of Canada that doesn't get snow.

[00:43:06] But where I am less where I grew up lots and lots of snow.

[00:43:10] And you kind of learn in a place with lots of snow, and here to to build yourself a Quincy and a Quincy is a little snow hut, so it's an igloo is blocks of ice.

[00:43:20] But a Quincy is just you take like a stone drift and you dig it out and so on survival shows or whatever people dig themselves into little Quincy's and so watching this I'm like, why are they not making themselves Quincy's like they should be so insulates you so when I watched the horrifying.

[00:43:35] Avalanche my first thought was, this is horrible and my second thought was, well if it's buried in the snow it'll be warmer, because they'll be there, they actually have insulated so it was funny when the three guys go on that hike, like the first three attempts to get to the plane and they're so cold and they're just like shivering by the rocks I'm like dig yourself into the snow idiots but I guess if you don't.

[00:43:56] know about the hike across the mountains the most is like they didn't have the proper gear they didn't have any like the shit that you go up like if you're a mountaineer or even if you live somewhere like Saskatchewan like you have remember when we moved there and people were like, I could submit because it's gonna be minus 40 and you get it like kick kicked into your brain that you're going to need that and then occasionally you walk past someone to minus 20.

[00:44:20] It's usually students and and yeah the thought that they did that hike anyway, but also with that like with the snow and with the altitudes is just mind boggling like actually mind boggling that they managed that like, and I do wonder if it's because they were a rugby team and they would have had a good level of fitness anyway at the start of it that they were.

[00:44:45] They had both the mentality and the physicality that they had the endurance almost and that's what I find interesting with the yellow jackets as well because they are a team and they have this like viciousness but also this physical and mental agility I'm like oh I wonder if that does put you in a better position than others.

[00:45:05] It must do.

[00:45:07] I'm sure it does.

[00:45:08] Yeah, I would think so.

[00:45:09] I'm sure like I would not have the same chances of survival in a situation like that.

[00:45:16] I just tired all the time. I'm just like, I'm just gonna lie. There was one of the real survivors I think just walked off into the snow and never came back. I'm like that'd probably be me. I'd be like walk three paces and then just be like, I'm done.

[00:45:28] He fell actually into a hole.

[00:45:30] I mean that also sounds like me.

[00:45:33] They didn't show it in this movie but there's another version that actually is a Mexican production called survive and they show it. He walks it then just like he walked into a drift but he didn't he just walks over and suddenly he's gone.

[00:45:55] I mean they did show that almost happened to that other guy.

[00:45:59] I think it was. Yeah, it was Mr. Agnostic I think.

[00:46:06] So Lucy's point being that the films diverged they were different.

[00:46:12] Lucy did you catch the line where somebody says, they're gonna lose hope, and I think it's Josh Hamilton, who says what's the point of hope? What is who does hope.

[00:46:25] What's so great about hope? Was it man?

[00:46:27] What's so great about hope?

[00:46:28] Yeah, Nando. So there is another because Lottie's whole thing is, you know, without hope we have nothing.

[00:46:36] Like, hope is useless.

[00:46:38] But maybe you have faith, you don't have hope but you have faith. And so what film is all about having faith like especially when the speaking of avalanches the second avalanche is going to come, and then the agnostic veto, veto agnostic starts praying and then it doesn't, I guess happen and I.

[00:46:56] So, yeah, I think he gets scared when, when it's that you hear the rumbling and I think he's just like, yeah, you know, yeah.

[00:47:06] Interesting as well that the yellow jackets construct their faith, like these guys have faith, yeah, ready to roll it's flat packed out the box, straight up Roman Catholicism you know what you're doing.

[00:47:17] Whereas in yellow jackets is much more secular, but they end up kind of creating a religion or creating a faith.

[00:47:25] And they both use their faith to justify the dead.

[00:47:29] Yeah.

[00:47:30] Yeah.

[00:47:32] In very different ways because it's much more like a holy communion.

[00:47:38] You know, versus, I thought in real life food for survival in the wilderness gives it to us in a pagan ritual.

[00:47:46] I thought in real life it was nice that the Catholic Church forgave the team publicly because they got a lot of shit in the press and the Catholic Church actually stepped in and were like, nah it's cool.

[00:47:56] It's the first time the Catholic Church has ever been like, actually yeah we're fine with it like go to town and as long as none of you were gay.

[00:48:03] Yeah, it's, I thought that was quite nice that there was a level, healthy level of sort of respect for what they've been through.

[00:48:11] Even though that kind of got I think a bit lost over time.

[00:48:14] You have to imagine too that they're out there and they make this decision to help them live without really, I mean, they mentioned it briefly like what are people going to think what if we're rescued.

[00:48:29] The point is right now we need to be alive to be rescued so let's do this.

[00:48:34] Versus, it's also true because I believe they tried to keep it a secret when they got rescued.

[00:48:42] And they tried to like tell people well we need vegetation and whatever so yeah and then people sort of saw through that quickly so sort of you know yellow jackets ish people know but they've never you know, but they managed to keep it more of a secret I guess.

[00:48:57] Yeah, well there was evidence.

[00:49:00] I think there was a leg was photographed.

[00:49:03] Yeah, there are photos that made it very difficult for them to keep it a secret.

[00:49:09] And then they were just very honest about it and it was hard.

[00:49:14] Well they had the families of the people who had died like that's rough man that's really really hard.

[00:49:20] Yeah.

[00:49:22] The interesting thing you were talking about their walk out of the mountains and into Chile.

[00:49:29] That actually took 10 days.

[00:49:32] And it was 38 miles, which is a lot if you think about it.

[00:49:40] I mean when you're going straight up and down.

[00:49:43] Just to like, unbelievable stick up for Josh Hamilton's.

[00:49:46] Can I said that was a road that you saw as well at the end where he's like that looks like a road and Ethan Hawke's like no man we're going to climb through the mountains I'm like, I'd have been raging.

[00:49:56] That was a fucking road.

[00:49:58] We could have gone downhill and use the road and he's like no no we're gonna like walk to green, green fields of Chile, I like even after the rescue I think I would have still been better about that I would have also there was like IRL I think there was a an abandoned hotel nearby.

[00:50:12] There was yeah.

[00:50:15] Oh my god I'd be livid, I'd be so annoyed.

[00:50:17] Yeah, Hotel Termes El Sosnado was an abandoned resort that was about 13 miles away from where they were but they didn't.

[00:50:28] They were on their map, they had that map.

[00:50:30] How would they ever find it?

[00:50:32] Well the problem was he had the co-pilot gave them bad info. That was it because that's true.

[00:50:37] It said the name of a place that he thought they were so the whole.

[00:50:40] He thought they were just past Curacao.

[00:50:43] So the whole time they're working from bad information which worked in their favor because they thought they were nearer Chile than they were so it gave them the, I think if they'd known how far away they were they might not have done it but in terms of things like the friggin hotel and where the roads were oh my god that would have just been so annoying.

[00:51:01] Annoying, it would have been really irritating, it would have been devastating.

[00:51:04] Yeah, it's funny when you look back on all the could've, would've, should've of it but definitely the co-pilot gave them. I think the whole crash was essentially the co-pilot thought they were somewhere that they weren't and started everything far too early.

[00:51:18] Whereas in Yellowjackets we don't actually know what caused the thing.

[00:51:23] I hope we find out. I still think it's Misty.

[00:51:26] Causes the crash.

[00:51:29] Sure why not? I wouldn't put it past her.

[00:51:34] I thought it was interesting in the movie when, what was I gonna say something about the pilots.

[00:51:43] Oh well.

[00:51:45] It's a horrifying scene where they find them.

[00:51:48] That has never, never, that scene I remember watching it and I was like when the pilot looks up and looks out the window at them and he realized pilots alive and he says Walker.

[00:51:58] I remember that from, you know, I saw it happening I was like oh I forgot this is a thing that's in my brain. That's a scary scene.

[00:52:05] And they look so young because is it Kinesa and Tintin?

[00:52:09] And Serpino.

[00:52:11] And they both look like boys like they still look really young but I think it's the last time you see them looking innocent, oh not innocent but like young like that and that seems to be the point where like oh shit this has got real.

[00:52:23] Well and it was interesting because they, that's where the pilot says I need you to shoot me. And there's a gun.

[00:52:31] And they said we won't be a part of that.

[00:52:33] We won't be a part of that.

[00:52:35] And then the gun is never brought up so the gun isn't brought out no one's like they kind of lose their minds in a way that Yellow Jackets they don't.

[00:52:46] So you have like the birthday, it's my birthday.

[00:52:51] It's so sweet.

[00:52:53] And it's my father's birthday like they're losing their minds and I'm like it's only been two months.

[00:53:01] Whereas in Yellow Jackets they seem to hold on to their sanity a bit longer than these guys.

[00:53:05] There's also the very high altitude they were at like for most of them they probably weren't acclimated to it.

[00:53:13] They were kind of losing their minds like that kind of oxygen deprivation makes you, makes your brain foggy and it makes it hard to think critically.

[00:53:24] So on top of everything else their brains were sludgy and slow and they couldn't think clearly like how terrifying that would be that you can't even like think your way out like you can't, I can't imagine it.

[00:53:40] And Javier was sick to his stomach like he, even what little they did have to eat he couldn't eat any of it because.

[00:53:51] There's a point when they're talking about.

[00:53:53] Like he had an upset stomach.

[00:53:54] And his heart was not.

[00:53:56] It's like we're not going to kill anyone.

[00:53:58] Nothing, we're not going to kill anyone.

[00:54:00] We're not going to and then someone said but what if we kill our innocence?

[00:54:03] Yeah.

[00:54:05] Yeah.

[00:54:07] Yeah.

[00:54:08] Because it happens when we kill our innocence.

[00:54:10] Yeah that was about eating the dead.

[00:54:12] Like a loss of innocence.

[00:54:14] And so they try to retain like in the live it's like they try to retain some of that.

[00:54:18] But also with the birthday and the like you know it just seems like they do their best to not lose it.

[00:54:28] And they don't give in to it and they try to keep their innocence alive and yeah so the gun doesn't come out again.

[00:54:35] I don't know if they ever if the gun was ever even like it might have flown out of the plane or they never talk about it.

[00:54:43] Suicide is very frowned upon in the Catholic Church.

[00:54:48] Oh yeah.

[00:54:49] Yeah.

[00:54:50] It's a cardinal sin.

[00:54:52] That was an interesting dynamic there where because the way they phrased it we won't be a part of that was like these good Catholic boys in the wilderness trying to do their best.

[00:55:03] Like it's very different but I do think yellow jackets couldn't exist without alive.

[00:55:08] I think clearly there are too many similarities but I think we're the team.

[00:55:15] It's a sports team.

[00:55:17] It is interesting.

[00:55:19] And they're young.

[00:55:21] Yeah.

[00:55:23] Although I had to correct someone at a party lesson.

[00:55:25] Is that the one about the cheerleaders and I'm like you are part of the problem with our football players you asshole.

[00:55:29] There is a book about cheerleaders who crash.

[00:55:34] Oh is there?

[00:55:35] And it's a Meg Cabot I think Meg Cabot novel.

[00:55:39] Oh no way I love it.

[00:55:41] It's very very funny.

[00:55:42] It's really satirical.

[00:55:43] I'm going to see if I can find it.

[00:55:44] Oh really?

[00:55:45] That's amazing.

[00:55:47] So your friend might have been thinking of that.

[00:55:49] Maybe.

[00:55:50] Also another 90s thing.

[00:55:52] None of these people were Spanish.

[00:55:55] Like yes.

[00:55:57] No one spoke Spanish.

[00:55:59] No one had a Spanish accent.

[00:56:01] No one dropped some Spanish words.

[00:56:03] We didn't even pretend.

[00:56:05] I have so many thoughts about this.

[00:56:07] It's really interesting.

[00:56:12] It's not surprising at all.

[00:56:14] I think that's why I find Ethan Hawke's casting particularly weird.

[00:56:18] I feel like if you made this film now you would probably cast unknowns.

[00:56:23] Or you wouldn't go for a big name Hollywood star you would go for unknown hopefully actual representations of that ethnicity.

[00:56:30] Which is kind of why I'm looking forward to the one you were telling us about Daphne.

[00:56:35] The new adaptation by the Impossible director.

[00:56:39] Oh J.A. Bayona.

[00:56:41] Yeah he's using pretty much unknown actors from Uruguay and Argentina.

[00:56:50] Yes.

[00:56:52] Peter was like well at least they didn't call them like Chad Michelson or something.

[00:56:56] And I'm like yeah I mean they get the names so you know the basics.

[00:57:01] Yeah.

[00:57:03] And this is the new one is based on a novel called La Sociedad de la Nieve.

[00:57:12] And it was written by someone who knew a lot of the people that were in the plane crash.

[00:57:23] He'd known them since they were kids.

[00:57:24] So I think it there's going to be something different about this one.

[00:57:31] And they all have the same names like they're everyone has the same name as they do.

[00:57:37] Like really real life like what their names were.

[00:57:41] So yeah it's going to be interesting to see this one especially after getting kind of attached to this version.

[00:57:51] And it's been such a long time.

[00:57:54] Well I thought the same about Greta Gerwig's Little Women and it turned out to be okay.

[00:57:59] So not to make a film about brutal survival of cannibalism the same as Little Women but you know some remakes are good.

[00:58:06] But yeah this I think despite not having people from actual Uruguay and Chile in it.

[00:58:15] It doesn't I think the fact they consulted so closely with people like Roberto Canessa probably paid off.

[00:58:22] Because like they definitely had good involvement with it and yeah the cast met them and had a chance to talk to them and things.

[00:58:29] And I think that's that's good but it could be better like a lot better in terms of just not being white as fuck.

[00:58:35] I mean this was the same time period when we had a 99 percent white House of the Spirits movie.

[00:58:45] Remember that one. Oh yeah.

[00:58:47] That was so offensive. It had like Jeremy Irons in it.

[00:58:50] It's like he's so British. He is not a South American. Like oh frustrating.

[00:58:55] It was really common and people were weren't even calling it out like they do now.

[00:59:01] Like back then it was just like oh they put Hollywood people in it.

[00:59:05] Blonder the better.

[00:59:07] Yeah I got everything wrong about what I said about that book by Meg Cabot.

[00:59:12] It is called Beauty Queens by Libba Bray who's also another very well known very well respected young adult author.

[00:59:22] Teen Beauty Queens a lost island mysteries and dangers no access to email and the spirit of fierce feral competition that lives deep in the heart of every girl.

[00:59:29] A savage brutality that can only be revealed by a journey into the heart of non exfoliated darkness.

[00:59:35] Oh the horror the horror when a plane crash strains 13 teen beauty contestants on a mysterious island they struggle to survive to get along with one another to combat the islands other diabolical occupants and learn and to learn their dance numbers in case they are rescued in time for the competition.

[00:59:50] So sounds crazy.

[00:59:53] Yellow jackets adjacent.

[00:59:57] Oh my goodness.

[00:59:59] Oh my God that sounds hysterical I'm going to check that one out.

[01:00:03] Penny and Daphne did I tread on your points are you are we free farming.

[01:00:09] I mean some of my points but not all of my points.

[01:00:15] What you got what you got.

[01:00:16] So I found this really interesting article that was published by Wharton Business School and it's about what we can learn about leadership from.

[01:00:29] Wow.

[01:00:30] From the movie Alive and you know it sounds like a sort of business school assignment but I personally have always been really interested in in sort of the psychology of leadership.

[01:00:46] Of of hierarchies and leadership.

[01:00:50] And one of the reasons I like these kind of survival stories is because it pushes people to test those you know paradigms and and for leaders to rise from the situation and not because of you know inherited power or something like that.

[01:01:07] This author whose name is where's his name.

[01:01:13] Sudev Sheth who is a faculty member at Wharton Business School which is at University of Pennsylvania.

[01:01:21] Talks about how at the beginning of the crisis right after the crash Antonio as the team captain assumes leadership right away.

[01:01:31] Right.

[01:01:32] And he is actually really good at the beginning.

[01:01:35] Right. He's like he keeps people calm.

[01:01:38] He gets the people who are not that injured motivated and organized to start helping other people.

[01:01:45] You know he rounds people up.

[01:01:46] He he figures out that that one guy Roy needs like lots of direct micromanagement in order to function.

[01:01:54] So he gives him that.

[01:01:55] Meanwhile he just like sort of offhandedly praises Kinesa for the idea about the seat covers.

[01:02:03] And then again about the you know the aluminum that they're going to make water from.

[01:02:09] He does a really good job using the sort of already existing team feeling that they have right there.

[01:02:17] There's a lot of goodwill there already and there's a lot of mutual trust.

[01:02:21] It starts to break down.

[01:02:24] Like you said when when they think they're going to get rescued and then they're not rescued.

[01:02:28] And and then he has his breakdown where he's like I'm not God and I can't save you.

[01:02:34] And then a new kind of leadership evolves out of that moment right.

[01:02:39] Like Antonio as soon as they he hears they've called off the search he really just checks out.

[01:02:44] He's like I'm done being the leader completely.

[01:02:47] And then it the leadership transfers to the people with the skills they need for the next stage of responding to the crisis.

[01:02:56] And that turns out to be Kinesa and Nando because they are passionate about rescue and rescuing themselves and getting out and taking action.

[01:03:07] And also they're not that hurt either of them.

[01:03:11] Right. And maybe they're physically stronger than the others which could explain why everyone was like yeah you guys walk over the mountains.

[01:03:17] Well they also they they take the foster that don't they.

[01:03:20] They're like well you'll get more rations and you'll get more.

[01:03:23] Yeah they yeah they give them more food so that they'll have the strength.

[01:03:27] But it's also about both of them at least the movie depiction are just incredibly determined people.

[01:03:33] Although Kinesa has so many moments when he wants to turn back.

[01:03:38] He has a lot of doubt in Nando is a little bit delusional.

[01:03:40] He's like no no we're going to be good. We're going to keep going.

[01:03:43] I think some of that is writing the film for Ethan Hawke though.

[01:03:46] Like I was watching it and I'm like how much of this is like because Nando is just out and out pretty much a hero.

[01:03:52] Like and I'm like it can't have been as simple as that.

[01:03:54] He was also the technical advisor on the film.

[01:03:57] Like Nando was.

[01:03:59] So he's like I'm going to look at one point.

[01:04:02] Of course I read a bunch of stuff and one of the things was the kid who somebody because in the film Nando is the one who says this is good news that the things that this is called off.

[01:04:15] But in what I read they don't name who said it.

[01:04:18] It was some.

[01:04:19] It's not him.

[01:04:20] It's not Nando.

[01:04:21] I think it may have been Carly.

[01:04:23] But I'm not 100 percent sure.

[01:04:26] Who painted it like it was a good thing.

[01:04:28] That means we're going to get out of here by ourselves.

[01:04:30] I love that.

[01:04:31] I will do it but only if I am played by Ethan Hawke and I get to be the hero.

[01:04:34] I'm like okay fine go off.

[01:04:35] I mean I don't know after what he went through I don't begrudge him that.

[01:04:39] Well yeah exactly.

[01:04:40] Exactly.

[01:04:41] I don't know if I would pick Ethan Hawke to play me but.

[01:04:45] Hey it's the early 90s Penny like you know.

[01:04:48] Yeah.

[01:04:49] Yeah it's a big deal.

[01:04:51] Yeah.

[01:04:52] Although should I tell you someone else.

[01:04:55] Oh I heard that maybe the person you're thinking of for.

[01:04:59] Can I say.

[01:05:00] I heard.

[01:05:01] Yeah.

[01:05:02] Oh yes.

[01:05:03] Josh Hamilton got the part over Brad Pitt.

[01:05:07] Yeah.

[01:05:08] Which I agree.

[01:05:09] Yeah.

[01:05:10] I agree.

[01:05:11] Imagine that.

[01:05:12] Fighting for the show.

[01:05:13] Yeah.

[01:05:14] Yeah.

[01:05:16] Also Brad Pitt likes to always be eating in his movies.

[01:05:22] Have you ever noticed this?

[01:05:23] He's always eating and like they didn't have any food.

[01:05:26] Like how would he have performed in this movie.

[01:05:28] Yeah.

[01:05:29] If he didn't have like something to put in his mouth in every scene.

[01:05:32] I mean I'm not okay.

[01:05:34] Saying nothing.

[01:05:36] So I think we should link the this Wharton article in the show notes.

[01:05:42] It's kind of interesting.

[01:05:44] He calls it team based leadership at the end where Roberto and Nando are kind of

[01:05:48] playing off each other to sort of balance each other as they lead the group.

[01:05:58] It's fascinating to think about the like learning from this that like the person

[01:06:03] you choose to be your leader in one situation may or may not be able to lead

[01:06:07] in another situation and you need to reassess the skills and abilities of

[01:06:12] everyone again to figure out who should be the leader when you're in a

[01:06:16] completely new situation.

[01:06:18] And I don't think corporations in America do this often enough.

[01:06:25] Like rethink like what is everybody here skilled and what can they do or you

[01:06:33] know it's never the leaders it's always like the underdogs that get blamed for

[01:06:38] stuff the like rank and file employees and I think they could learn a lot from

[01:06:44] the rugby team the old Chris Christians who caved in the escape crashed in the

[01:06:50] Indies.

[01:06:51] I think we can all agree that Roy Roy ever be the leader of anything because

[01:06:55] Roy yeah just fucking sucks.

[01:06:57] Come on.

[01:06:59] That was too much.

[01:07:00] Did now listen.

[01:07:01] Hey that was too much for them.

[01:07:03] I mean and in the documentation I did no stuff.

[01:07:08] Yes but Roy an amateur.

[01:07:10] We're in the radio.

[01:07:12] You know.

[01:07:13] But I was like he's just one baby boy and they are all like book sick Roy.

[01:07:26] He's like I don't know how to fix that bit where they're walking through the

[01:07:32] snow and he's just like please don't make me go.

[01:07:35] Look at how Roy just fix it.

[01:07:37] I was like so clearly Roy pissed off his teammates in real life and they're like

[01:07:42] you know what we're going to make him really lame in the film but I thought was

[01:07:46] the most unflattering was Bobby.

[01:07:49] He's always like this by himself smoking.

[01:07:52] Yeah.

[01:07:54] Does he ever help.

[01:07:56] The smoke thing.

[01:07:57] Yeah.

[01:07:58] No the smoking hair doesn't grow either.

[01:08:00] There's one scene where they talk about it's too it's the air is too thin.

[01:08:05] We can't breathe and they all break up their smoke.

[01:08:12] That is like the 1970s isn't it.

[01:08:15] And they said isn't it great that we have these.

[01:08:21] Is that long enough ago 1972 that there were still doctors on TV being like

[01:08:26] smoking.

[01:08:27] It's good for you.

[01:08:29] Probably.

[01:08:31] Well they were lighting up on the plane ride and I'm thinking yeah that was

[01:08:34] something that I did.

[01:08:36] Some of the 90s some of the 90s.

[01:08:38] Yeah.

[01:08:39] It was gross.

[01:08:40] It was really gross.

[01:08:41] Yeah but they didn't run as a sometime smoker.

[01:08:44] I was always like not in an enclosed space.

[01:08:46] What are you doing.

[01:08:48] It's interesting to you that Nando and Kinessa are viewed as like the leaders

[01:08:54] of everything after but others had a role that really didn't get fleshed out

[01:09:01] like Eduardo and Fito and Danielle.

[01:09:05] They're all cousins the Strouch cousins.

[01:09:08] They were the ones who after the initial interviews with the director

[01:09:14] they were the ones who after the initial cutting managed the whole process

[01:09:20] of the show.

[01:09:22] Oh they were the Shawna's.

[01:09:24] They were.

[01:09:25] Yeah.

[01:09:26] They were the Shawna's I thought Vincent Spano who played the captain Antonio

[01:09:32] I thought he was actually one of the strongest actors.

[01:09:35] I thought he and Josh Hamilton did pretty solid work some of the background

[01:09:38] acting was very early 90s.

[01:09:41] I felt but yeah I thought the guy that played Antonio was was actually really

[01:09:45] quite good.

[01:09:47] He was one of the hard time even in that situation they were like oh the king

[01:09:52] is good today.

[01:09:53] Yeah like oh Antonio could be a dictator.

[01:09:55] I was like oh my God.

[01:09:57] But you know what that's probably how they were in general playing with him

[01:10:02] playing rugby with him like you.

[01:10:06] I look at them and look and see OK they look very young but they still don't

[01:10:10] look maybe as young as the people that they were playing.

[01:10:15] Yeah.

[01:10:16] And yeah I mean those boys would have been like 19 or 20.

[01:10:20] And I think that they were probably this is something that they would do when

[01:10:23] they were on the field.

[01:10:25] Like oh look at the king we're at practice and he's telling us what to do.

[01:10:29] So I think that that's probably representative of how they were outside

[01:10:34] of it.

[01:10:35] Also Vincent Spano was one of the him and Ethan Hawke and Josh Hamilton.

[01:10:41] They were the well-known actors at the time.

[01:10:45] They were the ones that people knew.

[01:10:47] I mean there was no I mean while Ethan Hawke yes he was in Dead Poets Society

[01:10:52] he wasn't exactly a major star like the star power in this movie.

[01:10:57] There really wasn't any.

[01:10:59] It truly was like an ensemble of well we got these guys that have been seen

[01:11:04] before so someone might know who they are and a bunch of unknowns.

[01:11:10] It was the story that sold the movie.

[01:11:13] I mean it was the it was a little sensational right.

[01:11:16] It was like ooh they're going to show cannibalism.

[01:11:19] It was a huge taboo that was being broken.

[01:11:22] And I think that is what mostly sold the movie not the power.

[01:11:26] Ethan Hawke didn't really get famous until Reality Bites and before Sunrise.

[01:11:34] Like a couple years after this.

[01:11:36] That's when I was mistaken the other day when we were talking online.

[01:11:40] He wasn't super famous yet at this point.

[01:11:42] Well and the guy that played Javier Meethal Sam Barron's.

[01:11:48] I remember him from soap operas like that was where he started to get like

[01:11:53] Ryan's Hope and General Hospital.

[01:11:56] So it's like yeah you were you're a soap opera actor.

[01:12:00] You know that's who but he went on and did a bunch of other things after that anyway.

[01:12:06] But I guess what I'm saying the star power was not not huge.

[01:12:13] I have a question.

[01:12:15] So in the film it's Nando Ethan Hawke who's like we got to eat each other

[01:12:20] like immediately upon waking up from his coma he's like eat pilots.

[01:12:23] He's like we got to eat the pilots.

[01:12:25] He plants the seed.

[01:12:26] He's the one who tells everyone in the plane he's like OK I think we need to

[01:12:29] start eating eating the bodies.

[01:12:31] But then the day that comes they all gather outside.

[01:12:34] People are trying to decide if they're going to eat bodies.

[01:12:37] Josh Hamilton Roberto goes up to start cutting up the bodies.

[01:12:41] But Nando stays inside the plane and he doesn't partake right away.

[01:12:46] I thought that was really interesting how he's like he's it's his idea but

[01:12:50] it takes him a while. He's like I'll do it tomorrow.

[01:12:52] I think he was still grieving for his sister because she had just died.

[01:12:58] That's what Peter said.

[01:13:00] But I was also like I kind of had the same thought process as Jenny where I was like

[01:13:05] I think he was also he was also probably afraid that they were going to

[01:13:09] that it was going to be her.

[01:13:11] And he didn't want to be out there.

[01:13:14] Yeah and he didn't want to be out there to see it.

[01:13:18] He didn't want to know.

[01:13:20] And that's why he asked Kinessa when he came in.

[01:13:22] You didn't you know it's not my sister.

[01:13:24] And hence the no that was a man's but like yeah cool.

[01:13:29] Let's just leave it at that I guess.

[01:13:31] I mean he admits it to Kinessa.

[01:13:34] He's like so I can only be strong you know for so long and then

[01:13:39] then I need you to do it.

[01:13:41] And I think he used up all of his strength pushing the idea.

[01:13:46] And then he needed to take I mean I'm being kind of charitable but then he

[01:13:51] needed to take a break and let the idea carry through.

[01:13:57] And then the next day he eats it like it's no big thing like somebody handed him

[01:14:02] like a slice of apple.

[01:14:04] He's just like he's very what I quite liked.

[01:14:06] Yeah what I quite liked about it was nobody was shamed for not wanting to.

[01:14:12] People were allowed to kind of come to their own conclusions whereas in

[01:14:15] Yellowjackets like with Coach it's become a like oh you think you're too

[01:14:18] fucking good to do your coaching coaches like the fuck is happening.

[01:14:22] And I liked that there was no everyone kind of came to the same conclusion

[01:14:29] but people were given their own time to do so.

[01:14:33] I thought that was quite nice.

[01:14:35] Yeah.

[01:14:37] Although I really really and I'm so sorry if this really happened but that when

[01:14:42] one of the things I remember from reading the book is that Liliana the

[01:14:45] woman who lives the longest they were never going to eat her because she'd been

[01:14:50] like a mother to them and it's this weird sort of well meaning misogyny of like

[01:14:55] she's a woman she's been like her mom blah blah blah.

[01:14:57] But that scene where she's like I have to live.

[01:14:59] I want to have another baby.

[01:15:01] I was like for fuck's sake.

[01:15:03] Yeah that's it she's dying.

[01:15:05] Even if you didn't know she was gonna die you knew then.

[01:15:08] She's decided to eat.

[01:15:10] She's decided to eat and then boom.

[01:15:11] I want to live because my purpose is to have another baby.

[01:15:15] And I was like oh my God I mean that's lovely but also like she's the one

[01:15:19] woman in this scene could she not have had.

[01:15:21] Finally going to start that.

[01:15:23] Okay she's dead anyway.

[01:15:25] Right.

[01:15:27] I remember Lucy.

[01:15:29] I want a divorce I'm gay.

[01:15:31] This is a different time.

[01:15:33] It was a very different time.

[01:15:35] Also they were all from a very conservative Roman Catholic country.

[01:15:38] Oh yeah.

[01:15:40] So realistically it probably you know we did think her purpose was making

[01:15:44] babies.

[01:15:45] Yeah I can have another one.

[01:15:47] It's a very different time and they they all because they came from that

[01:15:51] background.

[01:15:53] I think that's why you know we didn't see and that in the time frame too.

[01:15:59] That's why we didn't see any of the intimacy like not knowing if one of the

[01:16:05] players is gay.

[01:16:06] Yeah.

[01:16:08] We he someone could have been but never told the soul because of the Roman

[01:16:15] Catholic.

[01:16:17] And the time.

[01:16:19] So if they do now that they're doing this up dated one that's coming out.

[01:16:25] I don't expect that we're going to see that now.

[01:16:29] In that.

[01:16:31] No that's I guess it's real life.

[01:16:33] Real life.

[01:16:34] If they're not deposited in their real lives.

[01:16:36] They're not gonna.

[01:16:38] Yeah I don't think I think if they do it's.

[01:16:41] I like representation.

[01:16:43] I think it's important but I think putting it out there as if it's something

[01:16:50] that happened back then when it didn't is not.

[01:16:53] I'm.

[01:16:55] Also when the people are still exactly.

[01:16:57] Do you know I mean because like I've got a lot of interest in like historical

[01:17:01] queerness and what's hidden and what's not hidden but when you've literally got

[01:17:05] the team guys they're standing off camera going like and that's where the sleeping

[01:17:10] bag was you don't want to be like so you know which one of your friends do you

[01:17:13] think was was gay.

[01:17:15] Yeah.

[01:17:17] I know I hear you.

[01:17:19] So I think they'll probably stay away from it because it's not really part of

[01:17:23] this story other than I mean their relationships to each other are and you get

[01:17:27] the brother sister relationship with Nandu and Susanna and his mother was also on

[01:17:35] the plane.

[01:17:37] So you get those relationships and I think that is the focus versus the romantic

[01:17:42] relationships other than Liliana and Javier because that's what is happening.

[01:17:49] That's but it is one of the I think the powers of yellow jackets is the way embraces

[01:17:53] queerness and I think having Van and Ty's relationship there is really important in

[01:17:59] that sense because like yeah I think but I completely agree on the perspective that

[01:18:04] like it's real lives and like told stories from people who are still alive to give like

[01:18:10] living testimony to it.

[01:18:12] But I am feeling like some of you were gay.

[01:18:16] Well, even yellow jackets being 30 years ago almost 30 years ago with the time frame

[01:18:21] that this is happening.

[01:18:23] Things were different than they were in the 70s but they certainly aren't where they are

[01:18:29] now.

[01:18:30] I mean it's it's much people have been able to be much more open because time has

[01:18:38] changed.

[01:18:39] However, in the 90s it still was really difficult I think and I can't say that from.

[01:18:45] A perspective of a person.

[01:18:50] Like I say that as a perspective of I have friends who are gay and I have friends who

[01:18:56] were gay at that time but I also know like just from that perspective not from my own

[01:19:02] personal coming out perspective because I am straight so I yeah I don't perceive to

[01:19:09] know what it was like for people.

[01:19:13] I'm just saying that based on my friends and their stories that's how I'm coming at

[01:19:20] it.

[01:19:21] I feel I should say this about Uruguay.

[01:19:23] I just looked it up so the official OK Uruguay is actually so we talk about their

[01:19:29] actors were mostly white Uruguay is actually 87 percent white.

[01:19:33] He's probably 7 percent white for really some black 2.4 percent indigenous.

[01:19:37] So it's actually a very white so Spanish I'm assuming like Spaniard settle settle.

[01:19:44] So yeah I mean I think it's OK that they had whiteness but I think she was spoken

[01:19:48] Spanish and their official languages they've three Spanish Uruguayan and sign

[01:19:54] language.

[01:19:55] Huh.

[01:19:56] They're considered to be cool.

[01:19:58] So again about the queerness they're considered to be it ranks high in global measure

[01:20:04] of personal rights tolerance and inclusion issues including its acceptance of the LGBTQ

[01:20:10] community it's legalized consumption and production of cannabis same sex marriage

[01:20:14] prostitution and abortion.

[01:20:16] And they are like the most progressive one of the most progressive South American

[01:20:21] country.

[01:20:22] So I love that.

[01:20:24] So a little so little plain fool of conservatives just like so in 1972 perhaps

[01:20:29] Liliana could have wanted to do more for herself.

[01:20:33] That was American life interpretations right.

[01:20:39] Liliana is like I want to get back to my cannabis farm and legalize sex work.

[01:20:44] Go for it.

[01:20:45] There's only three point five million people there.

[01:20:47] So those guys two million of them live in the capital Montevideo video or

[01:20:52] Montevideo.

[01:20:53] Oh which is where they were coming from.

[01:20:55] Right.

[01:20:56] Yeah.

[01:20:57] And they have been well known in their communities because there's a small it's a

[01:21:01] very small place.

[01:21:03] There you go.

[01:21:04] That's amazing.

[01:21:06] Yeah.

[01:21:07] So anyway I think it's interesting where we see the survivors of the plane crash in

[01:21:18] the Andes.

[01:21:20] They have no choice but to take up residence in the fuselage but yellow jackets they were

[01:21:25] lucky to find that cabin but now that the cabin is burned to the ground will they move

[01:21:30] back to the fuselage.

[01:21:32] The first scene we see because where are they going to go.

[01:21:36] Cannibal Council isn't it right by the fuselage.

[01:21:40] Do we not see it when they pull back.

[01:21:42] It is it's not far from there.

[01:21:44] I think it's really interesting that the point we've left yellow jackets is the the

[01:21:49] Andes point of like there is no shelter now.

[01:21:51] Like what do you do with that.

[01:21:52] And that really I don't know the one 90s thing they didn't do that I really wish they

[01:22:00] had was at the end where you get like a cheesy like still shots of people like Nando went

[01:22:06] on to become so and so and Kinesa went on to do and I was like I kind of it felt like

[01:22:12] it ended quite abruptly for a long film.

[01:22:15] Oh it's done I guess.

[01:22:17] Bye.

[01:22:18] And then they all finish like it felt like it would be nice to have a bit of like well

[01:22:23] I wonder if it's because I realized in when they made that movie those guys were only

[01:22:28] in their early 40s like when the movie came out they were younger than most of us.

[01:22:34] So it's so maybe they were like yeah you used to live in Uruguay.

[01:22:39] There's only three million people.

[01:22:41] Yeah like we don't need to know where you are.

[01:22:42] So yeah they it was pretty worse if they did it now it would be more like they're in their

[01:22:50] 70s and 80s now 60s 60s 60s bloody hell.

[01:22:55] I mean some of them live public can actually lives like some of them have been like speakers

[01:23:05] and done things like that.

[01:23:09] Yeah I wanted the where are they now.

[01:23:11] Me too.

[01:23:13] It's hard.

[01:23:15] I mean they could have showed like had the pictures of all of those who died because

[01:23:21] they did dedicate this movie to the living and the dead from the crash.

[01:23:26] They could have had one slide that said this film is dedicated to those who died and had

[01:23:34] like a slide or a picture with pictures of everyone.

[01:23:37] It's not hard to find those pictures.

[01:23:40] They're out there.

[01:23:42] I mean it's and they've been I think very private about who was eaten and who wasn't

[01:23:49] which I think is kind of a classy move like they've refused to divulge that which I'm

[01:23:53] like yeah that's kind of nice I guess.

[01:23:55] I think one parent flew back to get his child's remains or something there was one father

[01:24:00] was like not happy because they left their remains there because they're like traditionally

[01:24:04] we would take them back but we're not going to.

[01:24:05] And he was charged with grave robbing.

[01:24:08] Yes.

[01:24:10] Because the priest.

[01:24:12] Yeah because only they didn't let any family members watch the burial.

[01:24:14] That's crazy.

[01:24:16] And so they buried everybody and nobody knew who was eaten or who wasn't eaten.

[01:24:18] And then but then a priest like marked the bag where the one guy.

[01:24:22] Yeah I know he like braved him.

[01:24:25] That's so dodgy.

[01:24:26] And there is like a memorial there like a large cross with effects that stands as a

[01:24:37] memorial and if I'm not mistaken they did film some of the new movie that's coming out

[01:24:44] on the original site.

[01:24:46] You can go there.

[01:24:48] I mean I have to say I don't know that I would want to go there.

[01:24:50] Like I'm not judging people who do like cool whatever but I think that would be I don't

[01:24:53] know too much for me.

[01:24:55] I don't know.

[01:24:57] I also it takes like fucking ages.

[01:24:59] I made myself sound really honorable.

[01:25:01] And I think it needs to be left alone.

[01:25:06] Like it needs to be a memorial.

[01:25:09] And it's a strange thing for somebody to do as a tourist.

[01:25:13] I understand why people who are related to the people who lived or died or the actual

[01:25:18] survivors might want to go there but I do feel like the timeline yellow jackets is taking

[01:25:23] the chances of the survivors in the modern timeline going back to the cabin is high or

[01:25:29] going back to the wilderness is high.

[01:25:31] Just given how far we've come in seasons one and two and that they were talking about five

[01:25:35] I'm like could they be going back at some point?

[01:25:38] I don't know.

[01:25:40] We'll see.

[01:25:42] There were a couple of things about the real story that I thought were interesting that

[01:25:47] didn't make it in.

[01:25:49] One was that the man that found them I'm going to say this wrong it's either a mulleteer

[01:25:54] or a muleteer.

[01:25:56] Like a little guy with his mule the one who found them over the river was not featured

[01:26:01] and he he was a real guy whose name was Sergio Catalan.

[01:26:04] And like they all they all clipped together and paid for a new hip for him in the 90s

[01:26:08] or something like I just like oh that's so nice.

[01:26:11] Yeah.

[01:26:13] How cute is that?

[01:26:15] The thing that I thought was interesting they didn't include because I think if they had

[01:26:18] been like there's no fucking way that happened was they did hear on the radio that they were

[01:26:23] going to be rescued.

[01:26:25] Like it wasn't a surprise when the helicopters came they'd actually heard that morning that

[01:26:29] Nando and Kinessa had been picked up and that someone was going to come back for them.

[01:26:34] And the other thing I like is that Tintin who I think was really underrated because he did

[01:26:40] a lot of like selfless decisions of like well you two go ahead.

[01:26:43] He's great.

[01:26:44] He went on a lot of those expeditions up the mountain.

[01:26:48] Apparently he tobogganed back down like the scene you see where they toboggan back down.

[01:26:52] It was actually Tintin did that when he came back from the mountain with Kinessa and Nando

[01:26:58] whose dynamic was so like bickering married couple by the end if I was Tintin I'd have

[01:27:03] been like straight on the toboggan.

[01:27:05] I'd have been like yep okay I'm going to leave you two to sort this situation out and I'm

[01:27:10] just going to go down the hill now.

[01:27:11] Those are the three things that I thought oh it would be nice but also yeah especially

[01:27:16] the radio one I was like that if that happened I'd be like so contrived they obviously would

[01:27:20] never have heard that on the radio but it's actually what happened so reality is strange.

[01:27:25] They had the little radio that the interesting thing about the radio itself and thinking

[01:27:31] about Roy and the wires and taking the transmitter the which they would not have known the voltage

[01:27:37] was not the same so it was never going to work anyway like him taking bringing the batteries

[01:27:43] down or taking the transmitter up it was never going to work anyway.

[01:27:47] Speaking of the radio one thing that was really interesting about this versus Yellow Jackets

[01:27:52] is music.

[01:27:54] Yellow Jackets music is so important.

[01:27:57] You just recorded that episode all about the music on Yellow Jackets.

[01:28:00] So Yellow Jackets it wouldn't be the show it is without the soundtrack and this has one

[01:28:07] song they hear it on the radio that's it so it's not like there's even tinny radio playing

[01:28:11] in the background they sing a hymn.

[01:28:13] Oh it's like a Christmas carol.

[01:28:15] They sing Silent Night and then it's just sort of like and if you made it now there'd be

[01:28:23] a 70s soundtrack like if they you know.

[01:28:26] Yeah the score for this is like peak 90s string orchestrated 90s film score it's like done

[01:28:33] by John Williams it's not done by John Williams but it's that kind of like and it really I

[01:28:39] think movie soundtracks are a lot subtler or more nuanced or more smart now I don't

[01:28:45] know there were bits like the bit where they're picking them up at the end I rewatched it

[01:28:49] before we came on to record and it's a lovely joyous moment but I was kind of like oh I've

[01:28:54] just noticed there's like loads of like half-eaten limbs around but this really joyous music

[01:28:58] is playing and I'm actually a bit confused about what to feel right now because a lot

[01:29:01] of stuff is happening visually but the music is very much like entry at the Oscars.

[01:29:08] It was a strange one.

[01:29:11] And if they did, if they heard that they were being rescued I don't hide the leg do you

[01:29:20] not try to I don't know I mean you have to imagine the mental toll it all took.

[01:29:26] It had thawed right?

[01:29:29] You have to.

[01:29:31] Where would you put it?

[01:29:33] You couldn't dig.

[01:29:35] And the exhaustion, the physical exhaustion.

[01:29:37] I don't know it's getting some, they're not wearing all their layers.

[01:29:40] There's probably still plenty of snow on there.

[01:29:42] Yeah the score I thought dated it a little bit it was kind of in a nice nostalgic way

[01:29:46] but yeah I think Yellowjackets' needle drops are part of kind of making TV and film what

[01:29:53] they are and I think this felt a bit hollow for lack of it.

[01:29:58] There's a lot of ways in which this is quite a surface level retelling of the story because

[01:30:03] yeah you don't get a lot of what's happening, you don't get that depth but the story is

[01:30:07] about the collective rather than the individuals I suppose so it kind of works.

[01:30:11] It's a very straightforward and chronological telling of the story.

[01:30:15] There's not a lot of flashbacks or flash forwards or there's nothing sort of unusual

[01:30:26] about the structure of the story it's just like this is what happened.

[01:30:30] I think they also spent all their money on the plane crash and the helicopters to go

[01:30:38] back and forth to filming locations so music.

[01:30:40] And other than Roy being just annoying there's no villain really.

[01:30:47] Like even though I'm like oh they're setting the mechanic up to be like the you know comic

[01:30:52] relief or whatever but then he just kind of disappears no one really dies but it's nothing.

[01:30:58] So there's really no villain and so it's just like a man against elements.

[01:31:03] Man against nature I guess is the thing.

[01:31:05] Yes.

[01:31:07] I guess when you have a nature that is so oppressive and horrible you don't really also

[01:31:12] want a villain in the mix but if you look at the way it now they'd be like but who's the bad guy?

[01:31:16] But this really just about a group of friends trying hard and surviving and loving each other.

[01:31:22] I read one piece about the film and I can't remember where I read this but the writer was

[01:31:29] talking about how before this story this real life story happened the prevailing belief was that

[01:31:38] a group of people in an extreme situation like that would descend into chaos and not cooperation

[01:31:45] and it would be Lord of the Flies.

[01:31:47] And everyone believed that that was exactly what was going to happen.

[01:31:50] So when these guys came off the mountain and started telling a story of cooperation and

[01:31:56] prayer and hope it sort of blew the minds of a lot of people.

[01:32:03] I wonder how much of that was them being such a team and so the combining factors of having

[01:32:12] worked closely together as a team, having a shared faith, having all these things.

[01:32:16] The You're Wrong About episode goes into this a little bit because they talk about it from

[01:32:21] that perspective of what made this work.

[01:32:23] Because with Yellowjackets I don't want to make it as simple as like yeah teenage girls are crazy.

[01:32:30] But I do think there are vicious dynamics that even if you're on a soccer team together the way

[01:32:39] that girls are socialized and pitted against each other is quite different in a lot of ways

[01:32:43] and the damage that they can inflict and the hierarchies that exist there are

[01:32:51] One of the things that's most interesting about Yellowjackets is what is this without limits?

[01:32:57] What is this without societal convention?

[01:32:59] What is this if everything else is stripped away?

[01:33:02] It's the answer that a girls soccer team is just more interesting to watch than a men's rugby team

[01:33:08] from a Catholic school where it's like yeah it's fiction isn't it?

[01:33:12] Yeah I wonder what would happen if Yellowjackets was real?

[01:33:15] It's two very different readings of a similar situation with lots of variables in it that aren't just gendered.

[01:33:22] But I do think that there is a gendered element to what we see in Yellowjackets in terms of

[01:33:29] what it is to be female and I think that showed up a lot without derailing and having Jason delete this bit of the podcast

[01:33:40] A lot of that showed up in the discussions around season 2.

[01:33:45] It's like women were coming at it from a very different perspective.

[01:33:48] Whereas with this it's much more like look at those nice boys.

[01:33:53] Despite the fact they're cannibals they're nice boys.

[01:33:56] They're generally nice.

[01:33:58] They're a bit mean about the captain sometimes but otherwise they're okay.

[01:34:01] It's quite a one dimensional view of masculinity I guess but it's what happens.

[01:34:06] As far as we know it's what happens.

[01:34:09] Well Javier was a part time coach.

[01:34:13] He was one of the coaches.

[01:34:16] He was also a businessman who did a lot of traveling.

[01:34:19] Yeah.

[01:34:21] But they don't...

[01:34:23] So they did know him before.

[01:34:26] Oh so they knew him before.

[01:34:28] I didn't know that.

[01:34:30] He doesn't because he's...

[01:34:32] Yeah and he was definitely suffering from altitude sickness at the beginning.

[01:34:39] But it is mentioned in a couple of things that I read that when the avalanche comes and eight more people die including Antonio and Liliana

[01:34:51] that the team really took it very, very hard because Antonio was their leader and someone that they all looked up to

[01:34:59] and Liliana had been like a mother to them.

[01:35:02] She had been caring for them.

[01:35:04] I think it's Canessa at the start.

[01:35:07] Yeah.

[01:35:09] I mean the avalanche, yeah.

[01:35:11] It sounds like that was the spirit breaker of all of it was that moment.

[01:35:15] They were incredibly lucky and I guess this is kind of my point.

[01:35:21] They were incredibly lucky that Canessa and Serbino had some medical training, although they did have major injuries.

[01:35:34] Alberto, Federico, both.

[01:35:38] I mean that broken legs and a gash in a leg, which they were able to recover from.

[01:35:44] That's what gets in my head when I think of a lot of the first thing that comes to my mind.

[01:35:49] It's Federico's leg getting slashed.

[01:35:52] I was thinking they need Misty to chop a leg off.

[01:35:55] Just chop his leg off! Chop off the gangrene!

[01:35:59] For me it's the woman who gets crushed in the chairs.

[01:36:03] I can't get that out of my head.

[01:36:05] Well, yeah.

[01:36:08] I was like why did nobody fucking amputate?

[01:36:13] But then Peter was like they probably would have needed an axe.

[01:36:16] I'm like yeah, I guess maybe it wasn't an axe.

[01:36:18] I don't know, but I did think that.

[01:36:20] But I wonder if that's Misty is a lot unto herself, whereas Canessa and Antonio are both panicking at the start.

[01:36:29] Like I've been in med school for a month.

[01:36:31] Like I don't know what I'm doing.

[01:36:32] I think the difference also is that Coach Bob's leg was not reparable under any version of what was going to happen.

[01:36:42] His leg was smashed. Like it was flattened.

[01:36:45] And it was like liquidy. It was disgusting.

[01:36:48] There was no question.

[01:36:50] Whereas somebody with broken bones or a gash in their leg, if they got rescued and they got antibiotics and stuff, maybe they could have saved the legs.

[01:36:58] I can't judge them for that one.

[01:37:00] Bewilderingly, Nando's story is true.

[01:37:04] He did have a bleed on the brain and a concussion and they were like yeah he's probably going to die.

[01:37:10] And it was someone on the team who was like oh maybe we'll keep him in and keep him warm a bit.

[01:37:14] Hugo.

[01:37:16] I just think that's because again I was like oh look who I'm talking about.

[01:37:22] But apparently like the temperatures helped because it meant his brain couldn't swell to the extent that it would cause him damage.

[01:37:30] And he woke up and he was Ethan Hawke.

[01:37:33] He had a skull fracture.

[01:37:36] That's wild.

[01:37:37] Like he could have died and what would have happened to them if he had?

[01:37:41] That was my other thing I was thinking about.

[01:37:44] If he had died, would they have made it...

[01:37:49] Would Canessa, despite the fact that I do think they pushed Canessa as being kind of hemming and hawing about going further,

[01:37:58] would they have even tried because it was Nando's idea to do this.

[01:38:05] Yeah.

[01:38:07] And he had a key role in some of the decisions that were made.

[01:38:12] I sometimes wonder if having him three days out at the start helped.

[01:38:16] I know that sounds really silly and I'm not saying he had an easy time with his skull fracture,

[01:38:21] but I do wonder sometimes if because he was out of action for the first three really traumatic days

[01:38:26] that by the time he comes round a lot of the dust has kind of settled and he's been out of it.

[01:38:32] So he's able to come at it with like a bit more energy I guess or a bit more mental capacity.

[01:38:38] But then he does wake up and get told, by the way, your mom's dead, which is like rough.

[01:38:42] It was interesting how when Nando finds Canessa, it's like, okay, we got to go.

[01:38:47] Like the first time up to get the radio stuff, the batteries.

[01:38:56] And Canessa is sitting on the chair and he's like just wearing like a sweater and just like hanging out or whatever.

[01:39:02] Yeah.

[01:39:03] And a little red sweater and he's sitting outside and Ethan Hawke's like, okay, we have to go.

[01:39:07] He's like, do we though?

[01:39:09] We have to wait for the weather.

[01:39:11] And it's kind of the devil you know, like sometimes people will stay, people stay in really terrible situations because to the threat is made perhaps greater.

[01:39:21] And so he might have been like, let's just make the best of what we have.

[01:39:25] Like, yeah, we don't want to make because what could happen is even worse.

[01:39:29] And so I could see people being like, well, let's just stay here and eat each other until we're dead.

[01:39:35] Because at least then it's a guarantee.

[01:39:38] Like we know how it's going to end, but it's better than like the horrors that are on the other side of that mountain.

[01:39:43] That was interesting.

[01:39:45] And I guess the thought of another failure because they tried so much before that.

[01:39:49] I worry that I would be a Kinesa and be like, let's just wait until we're definitely going to be.

[01:39:54] Let's just wait a bit.

[01:39:56] Let's just wait a bit.

[01:39:58] I 100% would not have climbed up the mountain if I'd seen a road though.

[01:40:01] I'm still angry about that.

[01:40:03] I'm still not over it.

[01:40:05] I'm like, fucking hell, there's a road man.

[01:40:07] But there might be green over there.

[01:40:09] I don't care.

[01:40:11] There's an actual fucking road there.

[01:40:13] Anyway, fine.

[01:40:15] Okay, whatever.

[01:40:17] It happened.

[01:40:19] Yes.

[01:40:21] Oh, the one comic book.

[01:40:23] So as a librarian, I'm always telling people that comic books count.

[01:40:25] So thank you to media for telling me.

[01:40:27] I love that.

[01:40:29] Spread the word about comic books.

[01:40:31] I did laugh as well because Kinesa is actually genuinely laughing at it.

[01:40:34] And the other two are looking at him like, what is wrong with you?

[01:40:37] He's like, it's actually good.

[01:40:39] And they're like, okay.

[01:40:45] Again, I think a lot of comic books in Walking Dead as well.

[01:40:47] Yes.

[01:40:49] Like Carl and Enid.

[01:40:51] Even Michonne kind of likes comic books.

[01:40:53] Yeah, she brings them back for Carl.

[01:40:57] Yeah, I think it's a humanizing thing.

[01:41:01] I think it brings them back to being who they are, not who they are on the mountain.

[01:41:08] Because I feel like who they become on the mountain is kind of done just for the survival.

[01:41:15] And they've adapted to the situation that they're in.

[01:41:19] And then once they leave the mountain, they have to go back and kind of merge these personalities or work like this shared experience into who they are now.

[01:41:31] And I don't imagine it's something you ever let go of.

[01:41:35] And I'm quite sure that based on everything that I've read that they're all still, you know, whenever anything comes up, like in July, Koche passed away.

[01:41:47] I would think it just brings it all back every time something big happens like that.

[01:41:55] And yeah, you can imagine.

[01:41:57] One thing that I did learn that I thought was interesting is Kinessa was in a relationship when, and this came out, I think, in the most recent documentary because there are tons of documentaries on this.

[01:42:14] They actually interviewed his then girlfriend.

[01:42:18] Because, yeah, so he was in a relationship.

[01:42:21] And so she talked from her perspective about, you know, her boyfriend that they had been together for quite some time and what it was like for her to be waiting to hear something.

[01:42:34] Did they end up married?

[01:42:36] They did.

[01:42:38] That's nice.

[01:42:39] Wonderful.

[01:42:40] Yeah. And I didn't know that until the most recent documentary that had come out.

[01:42:45] Or maybe it was 2020.

[01:42:47] I want them to show what's going on back home while the girls are in the wilderness.

[01:42:54] Like, I really want to see Jackie's parents losing their grip and Jeff.

[01:42:59] Like, what's going on with Jeff?

[01:43:01] And I want more of when they first get home too.

[01:43:03] Like what it's like for them when they start to assimilate back into the world and how they adjust.

[01:43:08] Because for Shawna in particular, I think it's going to be really difficult.

[01:43:14] I remember reading, I think it was in the, it must have been the Piers Paul Reid book that I read when I was little.

[01:43:21] I remember reading that like the first night in the hotel, not the hotel, the first night in the hospital, the survivors couldn't sleep because the blankets felt too light and they were just so like, this isn't normal.

[01:43:32] I don't know what it feels like to sleep under this little duvet.

[01:43:36] And a lot of them ended up sleeping on the floor because they were just so uncomfortable being back in an actual bed.

[01:43:41] And I kind of really want to see how Yellowjacket deals with that kind of coming back from the wilderness.

[01:43:48] And I think, like I say, given the timelines, I think there's a good chance we are going to see that.

[01:43:53] And I am psyched because I think that will actually be really interesting.

[01:43:56] I read a very short interview with Ashley Lyle and she said that next season is definitely going to have more in the 1998 timeline, which is when they get back from the wilderness.

[01:44:11] Good, because I'm dying for that.

[01:44:13] And then the strike happened and no more news.

[01:44:15] News is done.

[01:44:17] I know.

[01:44:19] Pay people what they're worth, please.

[01:44:21] Yeah.

[01:44:23] Otherwise, we just have to listen to us talk about more Cannibal content.

[01:44:27] I know my partner has downloaded Cannibal the Musical.

[01:44:31] Cannibal!

[01:44:33] And my poor children are like, do we watch too?

[01:44:37] Yes.

[01:44:39] Well, the only alternative is reality TV and I'm not really, I don't want my whole world to be saturated with reality TV.

[01:44:48] I like good costume dramas.

[01:44:51] Not the only alternative, you can also watch Canadian produced television.

[01:44:54] Yeah, I do actually.

[01:44:57] And I watch British.

[01:44:59] I have Britbox, which is a subscription service that has a lot of great TV from the UK.

[01:45:05] And I watch anything from something that came out in the 60s all the way to now.

[01:45:12] There's a thing on Amazon I really want to watch.

[01:45:14] I don't know if it would be something for a WTF episode, but it's called Wilderness and it's got Jenna Coleman in it.

[01:45:19] It's like her, she finds out her partner is cheating and it's all about her trying to essentially kill him on a road trip.

[01:45:25] But not quite managing.

[01:45:27] And I was like, ooh, that could be a good off-season Yellowjackets maybe because it's called Wilderness.

[01:45:32] I'll send you all a trailer.

[01:45:34] But yeah, I did wonder also about doing Heathers because I've never watched it.

[01:45:38] I would love to.

[01:45:40] Heathers is great.

[01:45:42] Oh my god.

[01:45:44] Seven million times.

[01:45:46] Yeah, you missed the window.

[01:45:48] You gotta catch up.

[01:45:50] I missed the window.

[01:45:51] I missed the Buffy window and the Heathers window.

[01:45:53] Well, I didn't really miss the Buffy window.

[01:45:55] You're excused.

[01:45:57] Has Jason never seen Heathers?

[01:45:59] No, he isn't.

[01:46:01] Yeah, Jason's never seen Buffy or Heathers.

[01:46:03] Why is he doing this to his life, man?

[01:46:05] That's like a huge gap.

[01:46:07] Can he claim that he's a Gen Xer if he hasn't seen Heathers?

[01:46:10] Because that's what I ask.

[01:46:12] I don't know that you can.

[01:46:14] It's like he went to high school and never took a single math class.

[01:46:18] He's missing a huge section of Gen X knowledge.

[01:46:22] I never watched Buffy, but it's because during when it was on TV, I didn't have cable.

[01:46:27] Oh, that makes sense.

[01:46:29] I was a university student and I didn't have...

[01:46:32] I didn't watch the X-Files.

[01:46:34] I didn't watch a bunch of TV.

[01:46:36] I didn't watch Sex and the City.

[01:46:38] I didn't watch a bunch of TV for about 10 years because I had whatever.

[01:46:40] I had CBC, whatever my little rabbit ears could get.

[01:46:44] So I feel like there is also the excuse of some of us just didn't have any money to get to watch TV.

[01:46:53] I didn't live with my parents, so I couldn't go home and watch stuff at their house.

[01:46:57] I just question what Jason does with his life.

[01:47:03] I'm joking.

[01:47:05] If he's editing this, I'm obviously joking about that.

[01:47:07] I'm not actually questioning that.

[01:47:09] Jason, we all love you.

[01:47:11] We do.

[01:47:12] But you need to watch Heather's.

[01:47:14] I always feel bad though because he's like, should I watch it? Is it good?

[01:47:18] And I'm like, yeah, watch something. It's great.

[01:47:20] And then I'm like, if it's not good, he's just going to complain that it's not good.

[01:47:23] And then I'm going to have to justify why I like it.

[01:47:25] And I'm like, oh, that's what we do on the podcast all the time.

[01:47:27] So anyway, here we are.

[01:47:29] We've invited him.

[01:47:31] He's going to come on to Run For Your Lives to discuss The Wicker Man.

[01:47:34] Because he loves mid-summer and I definitely don't.

[01:47:38] Oh, interesting.

[01:47:39] But I thought he should watch what it really should be.

[01:47:43] The OG Wicker Man, right?

[01:47:45] The OG, like the real 1973 Edward Woodward classic amazingness.

[01:47:53] I'll be listening to that one.

[01:47:55] I enjoy that.

[01:47:57] It's going to be fun.

[01:47:59] So does anyone have any notes that they want to include?

[01:48:02] We kind of took this conversation in a direction of points.

[01:48:06] And I wondered if anyone had anything left that they felt they needed to share.

[01:48:12] I really liked the 70s knitwear.

[01:48:17] I'm in the market for some nice kind of vintage knits.

[01:48:21] And there were a few sweaters that I thought were just fantastic.

[01:48:24] So I enjoyed that.

[01:48:26] There was one point and I have it as a question.

[01:48:29] I need to understand, there's a joke that's made.

[01:48:31] And this movie doesn't have a lot of jokes.

[01:48:32] And at one point, Javier, who's the older man suffering from altitude sickness, says at one point, I'm nauseous.

[01:48:41] And then one of the guys says not to me and they all laughed.

[01:48:47] What? I didn't get that at all.

[01:48:50] Yeah, I thought it might be a very, very subtle gay reference.

[01:48:57] Like maybe he was saying he was gay.

[01:48:58] I was so confused. I was like, did he mishear and think he said, I'm gorgeous or something?

[01:49:05] I don't know. I was completely mystified.

[01:49:08] Okay. You know either.

[01:49:10] And like in English, nauseous means something that makes you feel nauseated.

[01:49:16] So he should have said I'm nauseated to be technically correct.

[01:49:21] But I assume in the real story, they were all speaking in Spanish.

[01:49:24] So that's not what it was about.

[01:49:27] I don't know.

[01:49:29] So I'm not alone in being completely confused.

[01:49:31] No. Okay.

[01:49:33] I was like, what does this mean?

[01:49:35] My only other note is that I remember from the time that we interviewed Josh Hamilton.

[01:49:41] I'm just going to name drop again because it's like my proudest moment of my life was doing that interview.

[01:49:45] It wasn't.

[01:49:47] He mentioned going, not being sure what it would be like going for dinner with these guys.

[01:49:52] I think they did it quite early on in the shoot.

[01:49:55] And he says, you remember sitting down at the table and not all of them spoke amazing English.

[01:49:59] So there was a lot of like nodding and like, oh, hey, how are you?

[01:50:01] And they were all sitting there and he was looking at his plate and he felt like a tickle on his arm.

[01:50:06] And he turned around and one of the guys had his fork and knife and was like jokingly on Josh's arm like, haha.

[01:50:12] He was like, oh, okay, cool.

[01:50:15] So we can talk about it then.

[01:50:16] And I was like, that would have been quite hysterical to watch these young actors being very intimidated by these men who are just like, haha, you've seen it all.

[01:50:26] So yeah, that made me laugh when I was watching this.

[01:50:30] That's funny.

[01:50:34] Well, I wanted to share that if folks want to check out Pierce Paul Reed, of course, wrote the original book in 1974.

[01:50:43] Several of the survivors have written books as well, including Nando Parado.

[01:50:49] His is called Miracle in the Andes, 72 Days on the Mountain and My Long Trek Home.

[01:50:55] Canessa wrote one in 2016 that says I had to survive how a plane crash in the Andes inspired my calling to save lives.

[01:51:03] He went on to be a doctor.

[01:51:05] He stuck with it, didn't he?

[01:51:07] Yeah, he did.

[01:51:08] He did.

[01:51:10] And Eduardo Strauch wrote one out of the silence after the crash.

[01:51:16] And those are just a few of them.

[01:51:18] A lot, I think, took time after to really collect their thoughts to be able to write something because it had been such a, you know, what happened was not something they could just sit down and start writing a book about.

[01:51:34] Yeah. Oh, I'm sure.

[01:51:35] So, yeah, it took it took time for them to be able to tell their story.

[01:51:42] And of course, I was I talked a little bit about Pablo Bierchi, who wrote The Snow Society.

[01:51:49] And that is the basis for this new J.A. Bayona movie that is coming out, which I think, you know, it's called Society of the Snow.

[01:52:00] Interested. The early critics reviews are very, very good.

[01:52:07] So I'm looking forward to checking that out.

[01:52:11] I'd be down to chat about it with you.

[01:52:13] Just put that out there.

[01:52:15] Yeah, I feel like excellent.

[01:52:17] I feel like we have to come back together to talk.

[01:52:20] I think it's quite bad ass to have an all female podcast talking about a very male film.

[01:52:25] I don't know. It was quite nice to talk about it and look at it through that lens, I think.

[01:52:31] Yeah. I don't know about you, but I think we should wrap up because I want to go and have another baby.

[01:52:38] No, I'm joking.

[01:52:42] Lucy, to have another baby, don't you have to have one?

[01:52:46] That is true. Damn it.

[01:52:50] Fucked up.

[01:52:52] If only I hadn't.

[01:52:54] All right, I guess it's time for some.

[01:52:56] Jenny, do you want to read that first one?

[01:52:57] Yeah, this is Mark McBurney, who said it's a childhood classic.

[01:53:03] He didn't realize it was a true story until many years later, and he must have seen it about 20 times now.

[01:53:10] So I wonder what Mark thinks of all of our thoughts.

[01:53:13] Yeah, Mark, write in again. Let us know.

[01:53:15] Tiffan Tibo says, not sure I have the stomach for a rewatch, but can't wait for the podcast.

[01:53:23] And Descombe said, I saw this in the theater back in the day and I haven't been able to rewatch.

[01:53:29] I just looked up the cast list. Damn, there were a lot of people that I don't remember being in the movie.

[01:53:35] I guess I'll just have to go back and rewatch.

[01:53:38] Hopefully The Walking Dead, Saw, and DBD have jaded me enough over the years to get through it.

[01:53:45] I think DBD is Dead by Daylight.

[01:53:47] It's an online game.

[01:53:48] I have not played it, but a lot of Zedheads are really fond of it.

[01:53:52] Okay.

[01:53:54] All right. And we have one voicemail from Anwen, the Cast of the Rings co-host.

[01:54:00] Okay.

[01:54:02] Here we go.

[01:54:04] Hello, ladies of the yellow jackets.

[01:54:06] This is Anwen, and I just wanted to give my thoughts on Alive.

[01:54:11] I saw this movie in theaters when it came out, and my friend and I were pretty obsessed with it at the time.

[01:54:19] It was such a captivating story and so beautifully told.

[01:54:23] It didn't harm that I was quite into Ethan Hawke at the time.

[01:54:27] Still am.

[01:54:29] But Ethan and our mate Josh Hamilton, very young Josh Hamilton, did a fantastic job in the two kind of lead roles.

[01:54:38] I haven't re-watched it for many, many years, but it is on my list to watch.

[01:54:44] So I just want to give you my thoughts from a few years down the track.

[01:54:49] One thing that I really thought was amazing, especially after having read the book Alive that it was based on,

[01:54:56] was that they really didn't have to make any changes in terms of making it more dramatic than it was.

[01:55:03] A lot of these, based on a real story, movies, they have to embellish it a little bit or they have to up the tension in some ways.

[01:55:12] But what you see on screen is pretty much the direct telling of what we read in the book.

[01:55:18] The author of the book, he basically wrote it from lots and lots of accounts of different interviews with all of the boys who were there and survived.

[01:55:29] So everything right down to the little pair of red shoes that Nando splits up and gives to one of his friends and then reunites the two pairs of shoes at the end.

[01:55:43] That all actually really happened.

[01:55:45] And the excitement, the scariness, all of the thrill of when they were rescued, all of that stuff is so real and so visceral and incredible to watch.

[01:55:56] I think in the movie they handled the whole idea of what they had to eat to survive really well.

[01:56:04] There's a little bit more detail in the book which is quite interesting and really a little bit gruesome as well.

[01:56:11] But one of the reasons why I'm so into this at the moment is that I have just read Miracle in the Andes by Nando Parado.

[01:56:19] One of the main guys, in fact the main one who decided to walk out and rescue them all.

[01:56:26] He has written his own book and I just finished reading it a couple of days ago and it was incredible.

[01:56:33] I highly recommend it.

[01:56:35] If anybody is interested in this movie or has read the book alive, please read this.

[01:56:40] It's so beautifully told.

[01:56:42] You do get the same sort of account of what happened from Nando's perspective.

[01:56:46] But you also get what it meant to him and so much more of a deep dive into the emotions and what he became afterwards and what he took from the experience.

[01:56:59] There's a couple of little bits that I'm actually going to read out for you because one thing that really relates to our friends, the Yellow Jackets, in terms of the starvation, really struck me.

[01:57:12] Because you might wonder what draws you to making that decision or having that need to eat human flesh to survive.

[01:57:23] So there's this bit in his book where he says,

[01:57:42] We had no hope of finding food, but our hunger soon grew so voracious that we searched anyway.

[01:57:47] We became obsessed by the search for food, but what drove us was nothing like ordinary appetite.

[01:57:52] When the brain senses the onset of starvation, that is when it realises that the body has begun to break down its own flesh and tissue to use as fuel,

[01:57:59] it sets off an adrenaline surge of alarm just as jarring and powerful as the impulse that compels a hunted animal to flee from attacking predator.

[01:58:05] Primal instincts had asserted themselves and it was really fear more than hunger that compelled us to search so frantically for food.

[01:58:12] Again and again we scoured the fuselage in search of crumbs and morsels.

[01:58:16] We tried to eat strips of leather torn from pieces of luggage, though we knew that the chemicals that treated them would do more harm than good.

[01:58:22] We ripped open seat cushions hoping to find straw but found only an edible upholstery foam.

[01:58:28] Even after I was convinced that there was not a scrap of anything edible to be found, my mind would not rest.

[01:58:33] It goes on to describe how they made the decision to use their friends as food.

[01:58:40] It's really quite moving.

[01:58:43] And then the part that I found really incredible was lots and lots of description about how the experience had changed him and moved him and everything.

[01:58:53] One of the parts that I really liked was this.

[01:58:57] In the mountains it was love that kept me connected to the world of the living.

[01:59:00] Courage or cleverness wouldn't have saved me.

[01:59:03] I had no expertise to draw on so I relied upon the trust I felt in my love for my father and my future and that trust led me home.

[01:59:10] Since then it has led me to a deeper understanding of who I am and what it means to be human.

[01:59:14] Now I'm convinced that if there is something divine in the universe, the only way I will find it is through the love I feel for my family and my friends and through the simple wonder of being alive.

[01:59:24] And I just thought that was incredible.

[01:59:25] So highly recommend it.

[01:59:27] Please give it a go.

[01:59:29] Miracle in the Andes by Nando Parado.

[01:59:31] And just wanted to say thank you again for your incredible coverage.

[01:59:36] Sorry this has been so long.

[01:59:38] I probably could have talked for hours.

[01:59:40] You know me.

[01:59:42] See ya!

[01:59:44] Oh my god, thank you Anwen so much.

[01:59:47] That book sounds fantastic.

[01:59:50] Now I kind of want to read it.

[01:59:53] Even though it's probably pretty upsetting.

[01:59:55] Alright, that's our show.

[01:59:57] Thanks for listening everyone and thanks Lucy and Jenny for joining us.

[02:00:05] Joining Penny and I on this discussion of this incredible movie.

[02:00:12] If you want to write in or send us a voice message about it you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com.

[02:00:18] We hope that while you're on podcastica.com you'll check out some of our other shows to help tide you over until the Yellowjacket season is over.

[02:00:27] Yellowjackets season 3.

[02:00:29] What have we got?

[02:00:31] Penny, you are busy with a new podcast about a 90's show.

[02:00:36] Buffy the Vampire Slayer!

[02:00:38] My favorite show of all time.

[02:00:40] Yeah, I've teamed up with Kara and we are covering Buffy in sort of an unusual way.

[02:00:48] We're skipping the episodes that we don't feel like talking about.

[02:00:51] Amazing.

[02:00:53] I think that's great.

[02:00:55] It's your podcast.

[02:00:57] It's going to be really fun.

[02:00:59] We just started so everybody you have time to jump on the bandwagon and get caught up with Buffy and do a rewatch with us.

[02:01:06] Over on Walking Dead cast we are covering Daryl Dixon in France.

[02:01:11] Bon!

[02:01:13] On Run For Your Lives we posted The Meg 2.

[02:01:17] So it's Meg 2 The Trench and we just recorded an episode on Little Evil which stars Adam Scott.

[02:01:26] It's kind of...

[02:01:28] I love Little Evil!

[02:01:30] Yeah, there's a comedy element to it and every once in a while we have to bring in the comedy because some of the films that we talk about are so dark that we need the fun stuff.

[02:01:39] And yeah, we're going to be recording.

[02:01:43] The cool thing is when we all get together for the meetup or when Penny and I are at the meetup,

[02:01:48] Hank and I will be recording our season finale and we're going to get to do it in person which I'm really excited about.

[02:01:52] Aww, you're going to have the best time.

[02:01:55] That's fantastic.

[02:01:57] Alright, that's our show.

[02:01:59] Thanks for listening.

[02:02:05] Buzz! Buzz! Buzz! Buzz! Buzz! Buzz! Buzz! Buzz! Buzz!

[02:02:10] Buzz?

[02:02:12] I lost count.