Whew! What a finale! We are so thrilled to have you join us for an amazing season and as we begin our journey in the long night waiting for S2. Take a stroll along the beach of Dragonstone with Kristin and Rima for S1E10 "The Black Queen" from House of the Dragon! We also take a deep dive in book talk vs episode (around 2:17 mark) and even more book talk with spoilers after listener feedback with Archmaester Renny!!
We had an amazing time getting back in this world and we are glad to have you join us! You can drop us a message at dragoncastica@gmail.com, or you can find our contact info and all our other shows at: podcastica.com
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[00:00:00] Hey everybody, I'm Kristen. I'm Reema. And this is Dragon Cast, podcast dedicated to
[00:00:21] the House of the Dragon. This week we are covering the season one finale titled The Black Queen
[00:00:32] finale. So sad. So weird to say. Brief synopsis of the episode from HBO. While
[00:00:40] mourning a tragic loss, Raniera tries to hold the realm together and Damon prepares for war.
[00:00:48] I love these synopsis. Very generic for the events of the episode. Yeah, this was
[00:00:57] an impact episode. So much so. So much to talk about. So many important events,
[00:01:05] very impactful events that definitely propel things forward. Okay, so let's go in first with
[00:01:15] how did you like this episode? I really liked the episode. Well, considering the events anyway,
[00:01:24] there were definitely some sad events. But just overall, I thought they did a fantastic job
[00:01:30] with the episode. I thought it was really well done, really well acted, cinematography,
[00:01:36] everything was absolutely amazing. And clearly there was some consensus there because I read
[00:01:43] that this episode saw 9.3 million viewers, which was crazy. Yeah, they said this was
[00:01:50] the biggest HBO season finale since Game of Thrones. So amazing job. So clearly a lot of
[00:01:57] other people tuned in and I think probably felt the same. A lot of differing opinions I'm hearing
[00:02:03] online, which I'm sure we'll talk about, but I loved it. And I'm excited to talk about it.
[00:02:08] What did you think? Same. Same, same across the board. I said earlier or I think I said
[00:02:18] it during book talk and we record book talk before we do this. But I found myself a lot more
[00:02:25] emotional the second time around than the first time around. I think because I was just
[00:02:33] like trying to keep up with the story and I was just so enraptured in what was going on and
[00:02:39] how it was going to go down. And then as somebody who is familiar with the books,
[00:02:43] I was trying to figure out how they were going to leave it by the end of the season and what
[00:02:49] was going to be that big moment. And wow, was it a big moment? So I was really, really pleased
[00:02:59] with the episode. I was pleased with it as a finale. I was pleased with the season as a whole.
[00:03:05] Again, I'm really, really excited to also talk about this episode.
[00:03:10] Awesome. So with that, where would you like to start?
[00:03:19] Well, so many places I feel like I could start, but I'm just going to start with first
[00:03:24] the Black Queen seems appropriate considering the title. So there's the scene,
[00:03:35] which we might talk about separately, but I'm going to just jump ahead a little bit
[00:03:39] after the birth of Reneara's child and where they're at the funeral. So
[00:03:47] when they're at the funeral of her stillborn child, this is her focus for the moment. She
[00:03:56] has just went through this traumatic birth. She has lost her child and she's also
[00:04:02] had just been given the news of her father's passing. So she's lost Viserys, she's lost her
[00:04:09] baby. This is where she's focused at the moment. And as this is happening,
[00:04:17] we get this really cool moment when Sir Eric Cargill shows up, which was really glad to see
[00:04:25] him show up after the episode that we got between him and his twin
[00:04:31] and kind of building up the tension between those two. And so he shows up and he presents
[00:04:39] the crown of her father, Viserys, who was also the crown of King Jaehaerys
[00:04:48] for those that need the reminder. And as he does, he kneels and he swears his fealty to Reneara
[00:04:57] and presents the crown. And what I love about this moment, this is my main point for bringing
[00:05:04] this up, is to point out the differences between this moment with this coronation of Reneara
[00:05:13] versus Aegon, the older's coronation. Such a difference because the people that were there
[00:05:21] at Reneara's coronation, they want to be there. They want to support her. And it was quiet,
[00:05:31] it was simplistic and it was authentic where Aegon's coronation was very different. There
[00:05:39] was a big show that was put on by Team Green for Aegon. They ushered people in off the streets.
[00:05:47] They're just pushing people to the dragon pit to witness this event. They had all the pomp and
[00:05:54] circumstance of this coronation. They made a big showing with presenting him Black Fire and
[00:06:01] Aegon the Conqueror's crown crowning him. He was, I don't know if they said the word blessed,
[00:06:07] but basically anointed, maybe was anointed by the septon. Showing all of these things,
[00:06:12] like he's the true monarch, right? They had to do all of these things to put up this show.
[00:06:21] And trying to essentially legitimize his claim to the throne with this whole showing that
[00:06:26] they did. I thought that this was a really great opposition, the scene with Reneara
[00:06:32] in this coronation with Daemon then placing the crown on her head and announcing her as the queen.
[00:06:42] So I think that the opposition to those two scenes and that juxtaposition, I thought was really
[00:06:47] interesting because the people that were there with Reneara are the people that really support
[00:06:52] her and want to be there in such a big difference. So I love that moment.
[00:06:59] That was so great that you pointed that out because I did not put that together and I think
[00:07:04] that's really beautiful that you mentioned that everybody that was there wanted to be there.
[00:07:10] They were there to support her in her loss. So of course they're there to support her
[00:07:16] in her queenship, right? And it was really beautiful that what you said that Daemon crowned
[00:07:25] her just like Daemon helped Viserys up those stairs a few episodes ago. And when it's time for
[00:07:33] Daemon to show support and love, he shows up. Like he is a crazy son of a bitch, but he shows up
[00:07:39] for his people. Yes, he does. He does have a strong family belief. Yeah.
[00:07:47] Yeah. So I totally agree with you there and it's interesting to me just to draw maybe one small
[00:07:57] similarity was that both Aegon and Reneara in the moment that they were crowned were reluctant
[00:08:04] and hesitant in that moment because it was the last thing that Reneara was actually thinking
[00:08:11] about in that moment as she was bearing their daughter. And for Aegon he didn't think that
[00:08:16] he was worthy of or should be worthy of being crowned. And both of them treated their acceptance as
[00:08:28] king and queen respectively very differently, right? Aegon started to get real cocky and
[00:08:36] the only thing he didn't do was pretend to fight an air battle with his sword.
[00:08:40] Right. He's like they like me, they really like me.
[00:08:44] All right. Exactly.
[00:08:45] He was his Sally Field moment. Sorry if that ages anybody.
[00:08:55] But with Reneara, she looked how's that truly humbled by the moment in her darkest moment,
[00:09:06] probably so far to see not only people accepting her as queen but kneeling, bending the knee.
[00:09:16] And they did it willingly. They didn't do it because they feared what was going to happen
[00:09:23] if they didn't do it. I mean, Daemon threatened the Kingsguard.
[00:09:31] But there was no dragon looming over these people, right?
[00:09:37] So yeah, I totally appreciate that. That's a great point.
[00:09:43] Thanks. What about you?
[00:09:44] What else do you have for the Black Queen anything?
[00:09:47] Well, obviously I'm going to talk more about Reneara. But I just I liked that moment because
[00:09:54] I've made no secret who I support in this story and I just thought that it was such a beautiful-
[00:10:00] Right. You're a total Alice anapologist.
[00:10:05] But when Daemon was very gently when he knelt and bowed his head and said,
[00:10:13] my queen, I totally even without knowing he was going to say that I was like, my queen.
[00:10:18] I'm right or die for Reneara all the way.
[00:10:20] He's like, I bend the knee too.
[00:10:22] Yeah, I felt like I was reciting those words along with Sir Eric too.
[00:10:27] Like, I am swearing my fealty to you. I will swear my sword to you.
[00:10:32] I would anything for Reneara. I'm all about her especially when we see the events of this episode
[00:10:39] and what she's gone through. But I just thought this was just a beautiful moment,
[00:10:43] this moment when she's actually coronated and it's official that she was made queen.
[00:10:50] So I'll have more to say, but there's just a specific moment that was my main point first.
[00:10:55] I love it. Just as an aside before I also get into Reneara a little bit,
[00:11:00] I'm just going to piggyback on you. But when we were watching it the first time,
[00:11:04] Dave actually asked and I think he's right, but maybe I don't know.
[00:11:11] Was that the first time that we actually heard the Kingsguard oath being said?
[00:11:18] Because I don't think that we've heard it yet.
[00:11:20] In House of the Dragon?
[00:11:22] No, in all.
[00:11:24] Really have we not at all even in Game of Thrones?
[00:11:28] We only heard in Game of Thrones, we only heard
[00:11:32] we only heard like Rien swearing allegiance to Sansa or the wall,
[00:11:39] the Night's Watch, they did their oath a few times.
[00:11:45] Right? But I don't think that we've ever heard Kingsguard take as oath until this episode.
[00:11:52] And if I'm wrong, please let me know.
[00:11:55] I don't remember. I mean, you could be right. I just, gosh, all the seasons of Game of
[00:12:00] Thrones and the finale aired what three years ago. So add those years to it.
[00:12:04] And I haven't done a rewatch since then because my heart can't take it at the moment.
[00:12:08] But I don't know. I don't doubt Dave's wisdom with that.
[00:12:15] I would feel he's probably right, but it was great.
[00:12:19] Yeah, it was awesome. And I loved it that it was Eric that did it.
[00:12:23] And he did it with the crown in his hand if I'm not mistaken.
[00:12:27] He did. He was holding it. He was on his knees and he was like holding it up
[00:12:32] and saying his oath.
[00:12:33] Listen, Sarah Eric, you good people. You good job.
[00:12:39] Agreed.
[00:12:40] You a good job.
[00:12:43] Anyway, so I'm going to piggyback on Raniyra. I'm going to talk about this birth scene because
[00:12:52] like we've seen her give birth twice now that we've seen all the women give birth
[00:12:59] throughout the entire season.
[00:13:01] No, we haven't. We haven't seen Allison.
[00:13:03] We didn't see Allison.
[00:13:04] No, it's fine.
[00:13:04] Yeah.
[00:13:05] Right. But Raniyra giving birth both times, right? She's...
[00:13:11] We already know how strong she is. We knew how strong she was the first time we saw her
[00:13:16] give birth when she got dressed after, you know, well still giving birth to the afterbirth,
[00:13:23] right? To go and see the queen as the queen commanded, right? And she's like,
[00:13:28] nope, we're going to get this done. We're going to go because I'm not going to start a fight right now.
[00:13:32] And we fast forward to this birth. Her father is dead. She just learned that. Her brother,
[00:13:40] her half-brother has taken her crown. She's not supposed to be in labor right now.
[00:13:46] He's got all these people whispering around her. I loved the fact that she went straight
[00:13:50] up to the maester and said, yeah, man, I know what the fuck is happening right now.
[00:13:54] I know that this is not supposed to happen right now. I just thought that that was
[00:13:58] fan-tastic. I was like, girl, if I could have five of you right now, I would.
[00:14:03] I mean... But she did it alone and she wanted to do it alone. Like she didn't want anybody to
[00:14:10] touch her. She wanted... It's like she needed to feel that pain because the pain of losing
[00:14:15] her father and losing the crown just was so much that some people just need to feel that pain.
[00:14:22] And she looks to me like somebody that needs to feel physical pain in order to process
[00:14:29] things, in order to process her emotions. I know that's that blood of the dragon thing.
[00:14:36] I loved the fact that Syrax was blended in with the birthing scene that you could tell that
[00:14:43] Syrax was also feeling the pain and maybe that was as Yule mentioned later in book talk,
[00:14:51] maybe that was Syrax letting loose of some eggs at the same time. Maybe not, who knows, right?
[00:14:59] Maybe Syrax was just like, my mistress, oh, well.
[00:15:05] And then I love the fact that she calls in just Saris and tells him, listen,
[00:15:17] I don't want anything to be done while I'm doing this. And you're the heir to the throne
[00:15:22] and you need to make sure that this happens, right? And so... And she's been preparing
[00:15:29] Jace all this time to come up and be a royal and be a king. And he takes it very solemnly.
[00:15:38] And like she doesn't forget to be a mother. She doesn't forget to be a ruler
[00:15:43] while she's in labor. And for anybody that's been in labor, it's easy to forget a lot of things
[00:15:49] while you're in labor. It's easy to forget that you love your husband in that moment
[00:15:53] or your partner. So I just really, really... I feel like that was a very good representation
[00:16:03] of birth again. I don't know if there's women that are writing these scenes, these specific
[00:16:08] scenes, but I have felt the pain of every single one of these births.
[00:16:14] It's very relatable. I've only given birth once, so I only have the one time to fall back on
[00:16:21] my previous experience, but it was drug-free, not by choice. So it wasn't a natural child
[00:16:29] birth. So... You know... So bad?
[00:16:32] It's... It was the worst thing ever. I mean, rewarding in the end obviously,
[00:16:37] and I would do it a hundred times over for that end result for my daughter. But yeah,
[00:16:43] and I'm going to tell you 20 plus years later, it has not been forgotten. They always say,
[00:16:48] oh, you forget. No, no you don't. Anyway, so it is kind of relatable to know because,
[00:16:54] I mean, they didn't have any drugs to give you if you were in birth in those times. It was all
[00:17:01] natural. So definitely watching when we saw Lena struggle in her childbirth. Now, of course,
[00:17:07] that had a tragic end. And then, Reneera and her birthing, it seemed very real,
[00:17:16] whether or not they have also in their personal lives experienced that or if they're just
[00:17:21] having to draw on someone else's experiences or they're just acting their hearts out.
[00:17:28] I thought was very real. And I thought it was... I liked it also that they're not just lying in
[00:17:32] their beds and birthing because babies aren't always born when you're on your back.
[00:17:39] You know, it's... I mean, sometimes, yeah, that happens a lot. But seeing Reneera walking
[00:17:44] around and kind of walking it out and she's wanting to very much be in control. I also think,
[00:17:51] you know, you mentioned the feelings that she's going through and needing to feel that pain.
[00:17:55] I don't disagree with that, but I also think she's angry at the fact that she's
[00:18:01] kind of bound and restricted by her female body and that's keeping her from
[00:18:09] what's going on in basically at the painted table. I don't know if that's a specific room.
[00:18:15] I don't know what to call that room, but where they're all...
[00:18:17] They're called it a war room?
[00:18:19] That would make sense, right? Their planning strategy.
[00:18:22] Her lack of a better term yet, right?
[00:18:24] Yeah, but that's where she should be, right? But she can't. She's, you know,
[00:18:30] doing what her mother told her was this... That's where women fight their battles.
[00:18:38] And I think that was interesting where they kept having the cut scenes between Damon and the rest
[00:18:44] of the Black Council. You know, they're strategizing and they're talking this out and he's already making
[00:18:49] plans, right? And Reneera can't be there because she has to do this. Like, I have to do this.
[00:18:54] And I think in a way she's kind of angry about that, that she's kind of bound to her
[00:18:59] womanly body in this moment instead of being there. And I think it was good for her to
[00:19:04] call Jace and be like, you know, I can't be there to say no to these things or to keep
[00:19:09] things in check. You have to go do that.
[00:19:12] It also goes to show that she knew her husband in this moment.
[00:19:16] She knew exactly what was going to happen. And she's like, I need a cooler head in this moment
[00:19:22] right now.
[00:19:23] Yeah, Damon's ready to go chop some heads.
[00:19:25] Right. And I know that Damon's mad, especially since, you know, he's
[00:19:32] he's pretty much told himself that his brother's been killed, not that his brother has died,
[00:19:37] right? And yeah, he's out for blood. So, and then there was the birth itself, right?
[00:19:47] You know, tragic.
[00:19:49] For anybody that has had any experience with a stillborn child or a miscarriage
[00:19:56] or or anything to this degree, the pain of this moment is very, very real. And
[00:20:06] I think for an actor who I'm pretty sure they do not have any children
[00:20:15] to portray this as beautifully as they did.
[00:20:18] Oh my gosh, they did fantastic.
[00:20:21] Emma Darcy acted the show.
[00:20:23] And just as an aside, like this week is the anniversary of my sister's death and my nephew's
[00:20:29] death and she died in childbirth. So it hit me a little raw this week.
[00:20:34] No, no, no, that's fine. I'm just saying like, as somebody who
[00:20:39] I didn't experience it myself, however, I watched my sister experience it, right?
[00:20:43] I, you know, you see what that does to a mother, you know, and the grace that Reneara had.
[00:20:53] I mean, she wrapped her baby and prepared her baby for
[00:20:59] her funeral herself.
[00:21:01] She was the only one that allowed her to touch her.
[00:21:05] Right. You know, when Damon came in to check on her, she's still holding Visenya.
[00:21:13] You know, and I, and we've discussed a little bit on the deformity of Visenya and I'm not,
[00:21:20] we're not really sure, right? Maybe there was a tail, maybe there wasn't. We did see one foot.
[00:21:26] The head was definitely deformed.
[00:21:28] But you know, she's cradling this baby and nobody, nobody can get near her. And she's just so
[00:21:37] hyper focused and Damon walks in and sees that he doesn't even feel comfortable approaching her.
[00:21:42] And he's lost his own child as well in this moment, right? And they go to grieve separately,
[00:21:48] which is so common for parents that lose a child, so common.
[00:21:55] You know, I watched my parents grieve separately and it tears marriages apart.
[00:22:01] So you know, when I see those following scenes where they're both kind of having this silent
[00:22:05] power struggle over a painted table, I always, I also see them as grieving parents, right?
[00:22:10] That are trying to focus all of their grief into this one event in the best way they know how.
[00:22:18] And they come at it from very different points of view, very different perspectives.
[00:22:23] You know, the male versus the female. And in this case, you know, it was kind of took an
[00:22:29] opposite turn because Reneer wanted to be the cool head and Damon wanted to kill everybody.
[00:22:35] You know, in these olden times, as we say, it's usually the women that are hysterical
[00:22:42] or they're made to be hysterical, right? Right.
[00:22:46] Right. So it's the entire scene of the birth, the funeral, the wrapping, the preparation,
[00:22:58] it was so real and I don't know if, you know, maybe people don't agree with me and that's fine.
[00:23:05] But I like especially on my second watch, like because I was alone in the dark,
[00:23:11] in the camper just like with my headphones on, just watching it. And I just, I was overcome with
[00:23:16] emotion during that entire sequence and I just thought it was handled very beautifully.
[00:23:20] I really hope that Emma Darcy gets an Emmy for her role or at least gets nominated because
[00:23:27] they did such an amazing job. I can't imagine anyone else playing Reneer at this point.
[00:23:34] Nobody, nobody. What a treasure in that actor.
[00:23:41] 100% agree with everything that you said and I agree. Now during my first watch,
[00:23:46] I definitely cried. I mean, I feel, you know, and I mean, I feel like you don't have to be a mom or
[00:23:52] a parent for that scene to move you the way that it did for that whole birthing experience
[00:23:57] and what she was going through in that moment. And then of course the aftermath and having
[00:24:01] lost the child to where she's then wrapping the child and then of course the funeral.
[00:24:07] So I feel like you don't have to have children. I'm not saying you have to have children to feel
[00:24:10] anything but it does, I think, hit you harder if you've had that, you know, if you are a parent
[00:24:17] and have had a birthing experience. I know I, it really moved me the first time and then
[00:24:22] of course again, I don't know what it is about that second watch. It hits harder. You know
[00:24:26] exactly what's going to happen but it hits harder. I cried even harder watching Reneera
[00:24:31] going through that experience and how beautifully it was handled and yeah,
[00:24:35] Emidarsi, G's, all the awards. Just take all the awards, just take them, just clear off your shelf.
[00:24:45] If the world is just, you will get all of them. Yes, very well deserved.
[00:24:51] You and Patty. Oh wow, yeah. For X and seven alone, yeah.
[00:25:02] So I think, yeah, eight. I think that that's all I have for that specific scene. I know
[00:25:08] that we're going to come back to Reneera time and time again because she's just the centerpiece
[00:25:13] of this entire episode but yeah, definitely the funeral and her crowning and definitely
[00:25:20] this sequence of her going into labor giving birth, losing her child, wrapping her child up
[00:25:29] and saying goodbye to her child while also grieving her father's death and also grieving
[00:25:34] the loss of her crown in that moment. The betrayal. I can't imagine a worse day.
[00:25:40] I mean, can she get a break? Can Reneera get a break? It's, yeah, that's the whole point
[00:25:49] of so much of this episode and again, listen to book talk if you want to hear about it,
[00:25:57] events to come and what's going to happen or read the book. It just makes sense. So it's
[00:26:08] yeah, extremely heartbreaking. I'll never get that scene out of my head though,
[00:26:12] the particular part after she's wrapped her baby and then she kneels and just, I mean,
[00:26:19] oh gosh, again so impactful and so moving and heartbreaking. She just can't catch a
[00:26:27] catch a break in this episode. And I like anybody that didn't know that was a daughter,
[00:26:32] that was her first and only daughter. They didn't talk about it. Yes. Thank you
[00:26:37] because they didn't specify but it was a girl and they named her Visenya. They didn't
[00:26:44] outright say that and I don't feel like it's spoilery to say it, but in the book they named
[00:26:49] her Visenya, which she would be named after one of Aegon's sister wives, Queen Visenya,
[00:26:55] whom I've talked about often because I also ride or die for her as well. All of her writes
[00:27:02] and wrongs. But you know, and you made a good point when you mentioned how this episode,
[00:27:09] you know we're going to talk a lot about Reneara during this episode and I think that's
[00:27:13] what was interesting about last week's episode, episode nine, that was almost like a part one
[00:27:19] because we get Allison and the Greens and then this episode we get Reneara and the team Black
[00:27:27] and we get like this other perspective. So yeah, definitely going to have a lot of
[00:27:33] Reneara talk but I like how they did that, get kind of like the two sides of
[00:27:38] you know the aftermath of Viserys's passing. Definitely. It's interesting and I don't
[00:27:46] know if you felt this way, but last week I felt the presence of Reneara and Daemon
[00:27:51] all throughout that episode and this episode I didn't care about Aegon, didn't care about
[00:27:58] Allison. Like when Otto showed up I'm like who this? Like yeah, just like didn't care.
[00:28:04] But the whole time during last week's episode I'm like you guys are in for a world of trouble.
[00:28:11] Y'all doing so many bad things right now. So many bad things. Shame on you.
[00:28:17] Decisions. Yep, shame, shame. Everyone knows your name.
[00:28:24] Where is Scepta Unella when you need her? Yes, get the ringing of the bell and the walk of shame.
[00:28:32] Yes, yes. Oh that would be great to do to Aegon.
[00:28:37] So where do you want to go next? You know I debated on when exactly during the podcast
[00:28:44] I wanted to talk about this and I was actually just going to jump into it straight away but
[00:28:49] I thought you know what I'm gonna because I've been so stoked to see Reneara you know crowned and
[00:28:54] to get to that moment I thought I'm just gonna start there but you know what I'm just
[00:28:58] I'm gonna jump in and go to my biggest point and that's the battle at Storm's End.
[00:29:04] I'm just gonna talk about it because after this it's you know let me scroll down because
[00:29:10] I'm sad too. Yeah I mean I feel like it's you know a huge point but I feel like I just have to kind
[00:29:17] of go ahead and talk about it and yeah it's in the room. It is and it's my biggest point and
[00:29:23] everything after I feel like it's probably I say this and I'm probably gonna lie out of my teeth
[00:29:26] because I talk way too much are going to be smaller points but this is definitely my biggest one
[00:29:31] because it was so freaking tragic and so I want to read a quote this is a very very small quote from
[00:29:40] George R. R. Martin and this comes straight from Fire and Blood. It says then the storms broke
[00:29:48] and the dragons danced and so we get this aftermath of what happened there at Storm's End
[00:29:58] between Boris Baratheon and our baby Luceris and Amond and it this it all gets set up
[00:30:10] as more bullying from Amond. He's picking on Luke and Luke has promised his mother that
[00:30:19] I am only a messenger I'm not gonna fight but you can tell it broke my damn heart as Amond
[00:30:27] you know he's already taken you know a verbal maybe in a more gentler way but I still feel like
[00:30:34] Boris Baratheon was pretty harsh with Luceris you know in his words but yeah you know whatever
[00:30:41] I thought he was disrespectful. I thought on descending. Yeah I was you know angry at
[00:30:50] his words and how he was treating Luke very disrespectfully and I thought you know does
[00:30:56] does an oath mean nothing to you you know your house is sworn and all you care about is furthering
[00:31:02] your your own ambitions in your house because one of your daughters you know you know he's been
[00:31:07] approached by this offer for Amond you know to be to be betrothed to one of his daughters
[00:31:14] and that of course advances his house instead of this oath that he's or at least his father
[00:31:21] and also their house you know Rainice is half Baratheon her mother was a Baratheon
[00:31:30] right so do you have no loyalty to your blood that sucks. I think he also makes the point
[00:31:39] that he didn't make that oath that his father made that oath. Right. Am I correct in that?
[00:31:47] No you are right it was his father who swore the oath to young Rainier after Viserys made her
[00:31:55] named her his heir that was and the name escapes me because geez the names I can't
[00:32:00] keep up with at all but yes it was Boris Baratheon's father who swore his fealty
[00:32:05] to young Reneera not Boris himself but still. You know if Rainie said gone instead I bet this
[00:32:15] would have had a different ending. I wonder because yeah it's you know that's how can you
[00:32:21] I don't know just yeah I really disliked that and you know as disrespectful as what he was in the
[00:32:29] show I think he was even more so in the book which I didn't like either but then we get to
[00:32:35] Amond you know as you know Luke is like okay you know got your message and he sets to leave but then
[00:32:42] Amond decides to taunt him which sets up the next events and he's pretty pissed still hanging on to
[00:32:50] their you know fight from years ago when Luke took his eye we got this awesome reveal
[00:32:57] of Amond's sapphire eye which is amazing pretty cool that was pretty cool to see that
[00:33:07] but yeah I thought dude he's a kid he's 14 and Amond I think is supposed to be between like 17
[00:33:15] and 19 something like that which might think in the book they say he's 19 I thought so
[00:33:21] I know that they've aged everyone up a little so it was hard to kind of keep track of that from the show
[00:33:31] but yeah I think he's between like at least 17 and 19 and even then he's a lot bigger too
[00:33:37] he's just in general a lot bigger and I hated that for loose I you know as a mom you know and
[00:33:44] again you don't be a mom but you know that's that's what pulls my heartstrings is when I see
[00:33:48] you know my motherly protective instincts you know and you see Luke and he's kind of grabbing his
[00:33:54] sword a little just kind of to be on the ready and he keeps kind of looking over at Amond as Boris is
[00:33:59] spouting his vulgarities and you can see he's scared he's scared of him and he should be honestly
[00:34:06] I mean Amond is being a bully and threatening him and threatening to take his eye and he's a
[00:34:11] formidable opponent absolutely we've seen Amond can fight and we have seen I think you were
[00:34:16] talking about it in book talk where we saw Jace and Luke on the beach at Dragonstone
[00:34:24] he's he's just not there as a fighter he doesn't have that skill yet and he knows that he knows
[00:34:30] that I mean I'm sure he would defend himself the best he could but clearly not an opponent for
[00:34:36] Amond and I'm thinking God you freaking bully you know to do that to this child I understand
[00:34:45] the loss of an eye and what happened is not a little thing okay but he's a he's a kid because
[00:34:51] I'm thinking God if that was my 14 year old I can't even picture my 14 year old in a situation
[00:34:56] you know like that I'm thinking that's that's a baby so you know Luke goes to leave Boris
[00:35:03] Bratheon puts an end to it because again you know it's not great it's not a great look to have
[00:35:08] guests in your home if one of your guests is killed by another guest then you know or a messenger
[00:35:16] is killed you know by a guest it's not a great look you know that's definitely frowned upon in
[00:35:23] in Westeros so he puts an end to it and allows Luke to run away and send off his message to his
[00:35:31] mother and Luke takes off he gives some calming words to Erack's you know there's a big storm
[00:35:40] it's raining lightning it's probably pretty damn scary for both the dragon and and young Luke
[00:35:51] so oh and I didn't even mention that the scene of Agar when when loose let me just backtrack
[00:35:56] for a moment the scene of Agar and the rain at the courtyard when Luke arrived wow it's like almost
[00:36:02] eclipsed the castle it's like Jurassic Park vibes man yes vagar is massive you know and I
[00:36:11] know that they show that really well in in this scene in this battle scene vagars essentially like
[00:36:18] a skyscraper on wings you know I mean that's that's how large she is the scale of that but yeah
[00:36:24] you know she's massive so that was very intimidating poor Luke he's already like oh hell
[00:36:31] you know seeing vagar and then knowing that someone's already beat him to storm's end
[00:36:38] so we get Luke Luke up in the skies him and Erack's take off and you know the poor kid
[00:36:45] is scared because when he gets back outside he doesn't see vagar you know I think they made that point
[00:36:51] to one show vagar of course for many reasons but when he gets back out there doesn't see her
[00:36:59] he's like um hmm wonder where she could be so you see you see him constantly looking over his
[00:37:06] shoulder and I'm just like oh god baby don't look back don't look back right we get this image
[00:37:13] when the light when the sky lights up with the lightning this image of vagar flying over Erack's
[00:37:20] looks like a 747 flying over a Cessna right the size difference it's so big she was so big
[00:37:32] I mean it was absolutely I mean it was beautiful I mean what a beautiful image one
[00:37:37] you know before we get to the tragic part it was just amazing to show the
[00:37:42] how large vagar really is I mean I feel like they really needed to make that point right if you
[00:37:48] didn't get it before how big she was you know you put her against this tiny little baby dragon
[00:37:55] Erack's was Luke's dragon um that he had uh you know as a baby when they give all the
[00:38:03] Targaryen babies you know their eggs and their hatched um you know in in their cradle
[00:38:08] and he in and they bond um so that's a baby dragon when you look at all the other dragons and how old
[00:38:15] the dragons are vagar's like 170 or 180 years old I think at this point crazy and Erack's has
[00:38:22] only been around for as long as what Jace has and Jace sorry Luke Luke's 14 years yeah so baby
[00:38:30] right well you saw that with the with with the way that vagar you know opened her mouth and
[00:38:38] just took care of Erack's and Husseri's like just easily like like I don't know smashing a bug yeah
[00:38:51] flicking a fly or yeah flicking a bug is essentially kind of the same uh same here
[00:39:01] um so this this was interesting uh the way that this played out um but very dangerous uh
[00:39:09] the decision Aamond made to hop on this war machine which is essentially what vagar is
[00:39:20] by taunting Luke when he comes out of the clouds and makes himself known and he's taunting him
[00:39:28] chasing him making vagar kind of you know chomp away a little at you know making little
[00:39:35] you know roars and bites here and there and scaring the crap out of poor Luke um
[00:39:42] and he almost gets he almost gets away I thought it was very clever when he decided to
[00:39:48] get down in this like little narrow section of rock on each side where vagar clearly was not going
[00:39:55] to fit um and I so badly just wanted I was like telling Luke like like you can hear me through the
[00:40:01] screen um stop there find it find a place to perch or something right I even so I showed this scene
[00:40:08] to my son because they love the dragon scenes and and before he goes down in between the mountains
[00:40:15] in between those ridges my son's like just get somewhere where that dragon oh and then
[00:40:22] then he's and then Eric swoops down and gets exactly where that and he's like okay okay all right
[00:40:28] Eric that dragon is gonna be okay as as Eric's like gets out again my son's like
[00:40:37] oh no so anyway I'm sorry so go on no it's fine oh yeah see he's smart he knows what's up
[00:40:49] um but well and I think just out of fear again inexperienced Luke is only 14 years old he's never
[00:40:57] seen a battle never been at war neither is air axe um baby dragon amen amen has not either and I think
[00:41:06] that is a really good point because and and that is in in my point that amand
[00:41:13] doesn't understand or I don't think fully respect the dragon that that he has that he has claimed
[00:41:25] um because when you know throughout this chase you know that Luke is scared to death
[00:41:32] Eric's is scared to death he's that poor baby dragon's like I got this big ass dragon on my tail
[00:41:38] you know like literally they're both scared also because of that dragon bond which we've talked
[00:41:42] about many times and we talked about it earlier in this episode talking about syrax and uh Rhaenyra
[00:41:48] and how their bond did and how she was feeling the birthing pains
[00:41:53] the the dragons can feel the emotions of their dragon rider they have a very magical bond
[00:42:00] uh so erak's is scared comes out of the clouds and little little plume of fire not it
[00:42:12] vagar probably barely felt it however
[00:42:17] vagar and I've talked about vagar multiple times um since we've been introduced to her on the show
[00:42:23] vagar is very battle hardened she was ridden by queen visenya during the uh conquest of
[00:42:31] westeros with her uh sister and agon and there were more battles after that as well so vagar is
[00:42:41] battle hardened and extremely experienced and I honestly feel that the actions that came next
[00:42:47] um were partly because of that I think I think partly feeling the feelings
[00:42:54] of what amon was feeling in that moment because he was pushing vagar to taunt
[00:43:01] erak's and luke and I don't think vagar took this as a game I think she was like oh this is
[00:43:08] this is for real we're not just out here playing a game you know that's not what vagar was conditioned
[00:43:15] for or to do and I think yeah and I think when erak's came out and you know blew that fire at her
[00:43:26] you could see that's where it turned and you could then see also amon is like you know hey no vagar
[00:43:32] know and you know luke has is also trying to get control of erak's like no no you know what are
[00:43:39] you doing um and I think that this you know because I don't know if people just assume that dragon
[00:43:47] riders have complete control over their dragons that is so false there is nowhere in the text
[00:43:53] that says you have complete control you can bond with them it's a magical bond for sure um I think
[00:44:00] there is a respect between dragon and dragon rider um for sure um but it's very clear dragons are living
[00:44:11] breathing thing they are intelligent I think there's an intelligence there there's a conscious there
[00:44:18] and they're gonna do whatever the hell that they want did we not see in game of thrones and I know
[00:44:23] it's in the books too in a song of ice and fire in the books dany doesn't always have
[00:44:29] control of her dragons either no she does not and drogon goes and you know starts killing people
[00:44:36] for meat and she and she's forced into a decision of of you know locking up the other two because
[00:44:43] you can't find drogon and she can't control drogon yeah and he almost kills her yeah right I mean
[00:44:50] I think that that's important to to bring up I think you bring up a really really excellent
[00:44:54] point dany did not denaris did not have um full control over her dragons least of all drogon and
[00:45:02] she was the one that was riding him the other two were riderless right yeah so she was bonded with
[00:45:07] drogon she was very bonded with him mm-hmm yeah regal and viscerion now I know she thought of
[00:45:16] them all as her children and I don't argue that but she was bonded with drogon and she rode
[00:45:22] drogon her other the other two dragons you know I think stuck around but they were not claimed
[00:45:28] they they were riderless it was drogon so even being bonded with drogon he went off and did his
[00:45:36] own thing she she called him and you know uh she would I think try to silently like maybe
[00:45:44] telepathically I think try to call out to him to bring him home because he's out doing
[00:45:48] whatever he wants um whatever he wants and he came home when he wanted he came home and then he
[00:45:53] disappeared again and he nearly killed her I know one time in the book so I think she just had to
[00:46:01] realize that you know yes we have this bond and you know uh respect for each other but at the
[00:46:08] same time at the end of the day he's going to do what he wants to do and I think that we
[00:46:11] have to remember that about these dragons that you know you can't expect that dragon rider to
[00:46:17] just automatically be able to control that dragon it's it's not just a tank that has no mind it's a
[00:46:24] living breathing thing and with vagar who is so battle hardened that you know it was it was it
[00:46:33] she she said nope I'm going after that dragon it just you know pulled that on me we're we're
[00:46:40] going for it and um I think that it makes sense um honestly and that was so hard to watch uh when
[00:46:55] because oh my gosh you know you thought you thought Luke got away and what a beautiful image too
[00:47:00] when he when he cleared the storm and got above the clouds yeah and it was light and I think it
[00:47:07] was important that they did this in the show because you know during the storm it was pretty dark and it
[00:47:11] was hard to see and um I think it was a good choice that they do this in broad daylight so there was
[00:47:16] no doubt as to what happened um and what the result was no yeah so it but it was just before
[00:47:24] that moment was such a beautiful image with Luke on air axe and you think oh my gosh did they
[00:47:30] did they make it are they gonna be okay and then vagar comes out of nowhere out of the clouds
[00:47:36] and um take some both down in one one bite and that was um I'm gonna get really emotional talking
[00:47:47] about it because uh not only you know baby Luke but then we lost a dragon and I don't think we've
[00:47:55] ever seen that right no we haven't seen a dragon death on screen before this season yet no and
[00:48:03] anytime you see it and again talking game of thrones spoilers so I hope to god y'all have
[00:48:08] watched this show but you know we had dragon deaths um not dragon on dragon but we lost some dragons in
[00:48:14] game of thrones and that had to be one of the I cried harder with dragons dying than any
[00:48:19] any person in game of thrones dying um so that was extremely hard to watch um and of course losing
[00:48:27] baby Luke like that and then to see Aamon's reaction that he's like oh shit um at the shock of what just
[00:48:36] happened as far as we know he hasn't killed anyone yet and I think this was the first time that we're
[00:48:42] seeing his reaction um that someone dying because of his actions um and there's no coming back
[00:48:49] from that because then in that moment not only has he like he knows he's responsible
[00:48:55] like he's just killed his um cousin is it cut let's see him and Rhaenyra or his nephew yeah
[00:49:02] nephew okay yeah nephew sorry kind of the twisted bloodlines I had to figure out where we were with
[00:49:07] that it's all one bloodline so he's killed his kin weird gnarled branch yeah so he's he not only
[00:49:14] as he killed a person but he's killed his kin um that's huge um because we've talked about
[00:49:20] that but also he's literally just started the big storm that's coming like there's no coming back
[00:49:32] uh from that you know um so that's a great point that you make there and I'm wondering
[00:49:39] is this the official start or was it when Kristen Cole killed Beasbury or was it when
[00:49:47] um all of the team black sympathizers were rounded up and put into jail or was it when
[00:49:57] and now his name escapes me was found hanging in the courtyard right so it seems to me that
[00:50:04] the Greens have taken the first three or four strikes to Rhaenyra's none at this point I think
[00:50:13] all of those things you could consider I mean there's no right or wrong answer
[00:50:17] I think though for Rhaenyra that there was definitely no going back after this
[00:50:26] right right right because then we saw the result of that once and I'm I know we'll talk about that
[00:50:33] I'm sure in in more detail but you know she she was trying to you know find a more peaceful
[00:50:41] diplomatic I don't know that that I don't know that it would have worked necessarily this is game of
[00:50:46] thrones and Westeros and I don't know how many um you know things like this have happened that
[00:50:57] haven't been just fought out on a battlefield so I don't know that she would have gotten her
[00:51:01] way but I know she was trying to find a peaceful no bloodshed type of way to resolve
[00:51:09] um the situation I don't think she was not willing to do what she needed to do to
[00:51:13] claim her throne but I think that her goal was to keep the kingdom united but for her anyway this
[00:51:20] was the no turning back point right and that that's another interesting point is that um
[00:51:28] she was trained by Viserys to rule with the entire kingdom in mind to rule with kindness
[00:51:34] and fairness and Aegon was pretty much thrust into this um having no real love in his life ever
[00:51:44] and now he has people that are using him as a pawn to stay in power and you know he doesn't really
[00:51:51] realize that and he's now the king and he's a volatile trash human being dumps dumpster fire
[00:51:58] um you know so you have these two very different sides these two very different personalities
[00:52:04] that are about to clash towards one another and by Aamond killing uh Luke that is going to set
[00:52:15] Rhaenyra on fire where she probably would have tried to find a diplomatic ending
[00:52:22] if not for that so there there is some truth to what you're saying with there is there's literally
[00:52:29] no turning back at this point like you've now woken the beast you've woken the dragon the dragon
[00:52:36] that's what I was thinking team black is coming for you good job Aamond you started a war awesome
[00:52:42] yeah whether he intended to or not and I mean I think that you could clearly see the intent
[00:52:47] was not there but again completely irresponsible to jump on this dragon and again not respect the
[00:52:55] dragon uh that you are on and um what that dragon can do um and it echoes back to what Viserys said
[00:53:05] in episode one or two when he was talking with um young Rhaenyra he said the idea
[00:53:12] that we control the dragons is an illusion they're a power man should never have trifled with
[00:53:16] one that brought the Valyria it's doom if we don't mind our own histories it will do the same to us
[00:53:24] and I think that Viserys you know we I've said so many times like oh I wish we would have gotten
[00:53:30] some flashbacks of Viserys writing uh Viserys writing uh Viserys writing uh Viserys writing
[00:53:33] uh Viserys writing uh Viserys writing uh Viserys writing uh Viserys writing uh Viserys writing
[00:53:34] uh because he wrote him one time when he was 16 he bonded with them took him for a ride
[00:53:38] one time at 16 and he never wrote him again and then after a time Valyrian then died um
[00:53:46] but I think that if I had to guess and I don't know this because I don't it wasn't really in the
[00:53:52] book and I don't really have any context but based on what I saw here based on what I heard
[00:53:57] Viserys tell Rhaenyra he understood dragons and how dangerous they were and that we didn't
[00:54:04] control them and that they did bring down and because he he read all the histories right he was
[00:54:08] reading he he read all about Valyria he was very much into the histories of of all of that and
[00:54:15] I think he understood how dangerous dragons could be and I think that he once he wrote Valyrian
[00:54:20] he really felt the full weight of that and was like no no no this is not for me um this this
[00:54:27] is dangerous and that is where Aimen definitely had I think a misstep um and I think it's going
[00:54:34] to be interesting that when Aimen gets home you know he can't he can't admit or at least team
[00:54:42] green is not going to be able to admit that he lost control of his dragon because that weakens
[00:54:47] them politically uh I I think either he goes home and he tells the truth uh what happened it
[00:54:55] was an accident I didn't mean for it to happen but it happened um are they going to say well it's
[00:55:05] better for you to be known as a kinslayer and bear the shame of that versus how it weakens team
[00:55:13] greens stance because you can't you can't say well this happened because uh Aimen couldn't
[00:55:19] control his dragon you can't you can't say that um it doesn't help I'll be interested
[00:55:26] to know how the story comes out if not for Aimen because nobody saw it
[00:55:34] mm-hmm you know what I mean yeah I don't know yeah I'm interested to know how that is all going
[00:55:43] to play out uh I hate it that we have to wait all this time it sucks yes at least gonna be
[00:55:51] I would say probably early at least 24 um it I doubt we'll get it in late 2023 Ryan Condol
[00:55:58] can't really say for sure I don't think it's in his control I did hear that they are just now
[00:56:03] writing it though and production is supposed to start early 2023 that's what I heard
[00:56:11] but yeah yeah so this scene um obviously a big scene definitely propels things a different
[00:56:18] we don't know what would have how things would have played out had this not happened
[00:56:24] in this way but um I mean RIP to Erox and sweet baby Luke and his sweet baby dragon
[00:56:32] that they were just scared and tried to fight and get away and lost their life
[00:56:38] so sad yeah it is uh for Reneira yeah I do like that Damon called
[00:56:48] the boys his sons in this episode
[00:56:53] yes but he could have also been referring to um Little Viseris and um
[00:57:01] oh yeah you're right
[00:57:04] yeah we didn't see them this episode so I forgot about them yeah yeah we did not see them
[00:57:11] but um they were mentioned because they were in Otto's terms that he presented from Queen the
[00:57:18] Dowager Queen right adolescent but yeah they uh we didn't see them which I think was okay because
[00:57:24] they're still pretty young so I I mean he could have still been referring to because I do feel
[00:57:32] they're they do make a perfect blended family the way that you know they've they've blended
[00:57:37] their children I definitely think uh Reneira sees Bela and Reina as as her daughters even though she
[00:57:43] didn't birth them so right which speaks to again her her parenting versus Allison you know she's not
[00:57:50] smacking our kids and grabbing their face and you know she's such a good mom honestly
[00:57:56] she's such a good mom versus and it's always the people that just were very hesitant on
[00:58:02] becoming moms you know that they'd like just really embrace the role and did write into it and
[00:58:08] she's just great mom agreed um so is that it yes I think I better stop because I talked for a long
[00:58:19] time no you keep going if you need to keep going um I wanted to just talk about grief a little bit
[00:58:28] because you you see that in this episode a lot and I so with Coraless and Reneys right yeah um
[00:58:36] I love I love all of their interactions honestly like I I need somebody to splice together all of
[00:58:42] their scenes this whole season and just send it to me okay thanks um so Coraless and Reneys
[00:58:53] talking to each other about about kind of the aftermath of Lena's death right when Reneys is
[00:59:02] like okay good you're alive you're fine great now I'm gonna be pissed at you I like that she didn't let
[00:59:09] like like or like go easy on him like she let him right oh she hasn't got easy on him
[00:59:17] the entire season I love her so much but she's like you abandoned me you know you went off to
[00:59:22] fight your stupid war that you needed to fight and uh he's like I needed to do something I need
[00:59:29] you know I couldn't just be here whatever and she's like I needed you I needed you to be here I needed
[00:59:34] you to be here for me you know and then you know he sees kind of like the error of his ways and
[00:59:41] his ambition when he learns about his brother's death and whatnot and then
[00:59:47] Reneys is like well listen since you've been asleep you know let me tell you what's been
[00:59:52] going down blah blah blah okay so you have you have these this married couple who they've lost both of
[01:00:00] their children and you know I mean you have two children and they're both gone you know I mean that's
[01:00:09] that's a recipe for disaster right there right and of course they're both needing to grieve
[01:00:15] separately you know she wanted to lean on her husband and her husband just wanted to go kill
[01:00:21] a bunch of people you know yeah and but then you see the same thing that's happening in Reneyra and
[01:00:28] Damon right they're both grieving she's trying to hold the realm together and lean on people for
[01:00:34] support and he wants to kill everything and everyone around him and he's in a position of power with
[01:00:43] Reneyra as queen at Dragonstone to do just that and Corliss because he is you know the lord of Driftmark
[01:00:53] he can go off without having to check with Reneys right um so there's this like power struggle
[01:01:01] power balance and these two couples that are very much in love with each other and very much devoted
[01:01:07] to each other and yet their their grieving is so individual and so alike at the same time
[01:01:14] and it really shows how a marriage can be torn apart by the loss of a loved one and really the loss
[01:01:20] of a child um you know I think it's the and I don't know the exact percentage but there it's
[01:01:28] a high percentage of marriages do not um do not succeed after losing a child and you know you see
[01:01:39] these two couples that that that are going through their own personal trauma in their own personal
[01:01:46] hell but you know miraculously all four of them are these two couples they can stay together
[01:01:52] you know yeah um and that's probably just because they're supposed to stay together right
[01:01:56] but right yeah there's not a whole lot of I don't think divorce it's an option but these are two couples
[01:02:02] that are also very devoted to one another yeah um and we've seen that with Corliss and Reneys the
[01:02:10] entire season they're very very devoted to one another they genuinely love and respect one
[01:02:16] another it is a marriage of equals and you see Reneyra and Damon and those two
[01:02:22] toxic as hell but they're devoted to that toxicity right so they do love each other very very much
[01:02:34] um and like I said earlier whenever Damon when Damon is you know called to be supportive to be
[01:02:42] loving he always steps up to the plate and he does so in a very wonderful way right that's
[01:02:50] one of his biggest redeeming qualities is how devoted he is to the people that he loves and his family
[01:02:57] um so so I just love seeing the way the very real way in this fantasy world of how
[01:03:06] brief is really portrayed and you can say that throughout the entire season is that
[01:03:11] grief and loss have been treated with a lot of um respect this entire season and they've done
[01:03:17] a very good job of of portraying that both in the writing and the actors agreed so it's little but
[01:03:29] that's um oh that was a lot that was big yeah not as long as a point is mine but it was very well said
[01:03:37] and thank you yeah I totally agree they've done a really good job handling that I think
[01:03:44] I agree um so what do you have next goodness um like I said it's a lot of small things after
[01:03:55] all of that um we talked about Reneira and her what I considered her battle um with her birth
[01:04:03] of her daughter um so I wanted to just kind of mention um the message to dragonstone
[01:04:13] we you know we've kind of mentioned it in small parts when we started but you know the the set
[01:04:20] of balls on auto to show up at dragonstone I mean dudes walking into a literal dragon pit you know
[01:04:32] so this was a really great call back to was it episode two I feel like it's all kind of blending
[01:04:38] together for me uh because I had a chance to go back and watch watch them again um but was it episode
[01:04:44] two when Damon is on dragonstone he's still in the dragon egg and you know auto has um and some
[01:04:52] of them have shown up to you know hey what are you doing and Reneira shows up so that's kind of
[01:05:00] is what's echoed in this episode Reneira's entrance like a girl boss on the back of sirex
[01:05:07] and shows you know her strength and power you know she's this is after she's been coordinated
[01:05:15] you know queen um she's there to definitely demonstrate her strength um and she definitely
[01:05:22] does it in a very different way she's very calm and it seems like she's really ready to tell auto
[01:05:29] what he can do with those terms uh which I love Damon is definitely not shy about you know his
[01:05:36] thoughts and and I thought you know it's definitely um you know some good good lines and good moments
[01:05:42] that make me giggle because that's Damon um but you know she's she's queen and she's you
[01:05:48] know she holds herself in a in a different way um and it looks like she is though ready to tell
[01:05:54] auto that he can stuff it but then she waivers because then she is given the page from that book
[01:06:01] that allicent kept from all these years and that was a page from the book that they were reading
[01:06:07] when they were young under the gods would and that serving as a reminder to Reneira um and
[01:06:14] again you know I've mentioned it so many times but I just feel like it it you know it can't be
[01:06:20] um downplayed as the the acting that's done with everyone's facial expressions
[01:06:28] you know you really see Reneira in that moment because she's very even though she's not loving
[01:06:34] everything she's hearing you know as autos giving out these terms you know and honestly I mean
[01:06:39] considering the situation they're in I know that she's probably considering them into some way
[01:06:44] I mean she is pretty pissed obviously and with good reason that they have usurped
[01:06:50] her throne she is the heir and they have committed treason by what they've done so
[01:06:58] she is understandably and rightfully pissed uh but he's giving out terms you know
[01:07:05] that are somewhat fair except for the part where he does mention uh vis vis seris and um
[01:07:13] oh shoot what was the older boy what was the two boys her and Damon's boys why are the names escaping
[01:07:20] me but they were talking about them serving there in king's land and vis seris agon yes thank you
[01:07:26] cheese why why can't I yes because it's agon the younger because there's a lot of agon yes
[01:07:31] agon the younger is what they call their son or well it's what everyone else calls them to keep
[01:07:36] the agons separate since there are two in this timeline um so yes agon the younger and then um
[01:07:42] vis seris sorry um I'll continue um when they mention them you know oh they can be cut cut bear and
[01:07:50] and reside at king's landing but i'm like dude that's basically keeping them as prisoner in a way
[01:07:56] that's you know words yeah yeah so that's not the best of terms but either way you know the other
[01:08:01] terms at least don't sound too terrible so you know she's probably considering them and also probably
[01:08:05] considering telling him he can shove it um and she's keeping very steadfast and she her you know
[01:08:11] it's hard to kind of read that emotion on her face until she sees that that page of that book
[01:08:16] and she does um you know her face just crumbles in that moment and again emma d'arcy played it so well
[01:08:24] because you definitely read everything on their face in that scene uh agreed so I thought totally
[01:08:33] agreed yeah so you know what's interesting too is that um Raniera shows up on cyrax in both of
[01:08:40] those scenes in episode two and episode ten when you know when Otto and Damon are sparring verbally
[01:08:50] sparring and it's going to go to blows Raniera shows up each time you know on cyrax yeah and right
[01:08:59] and deus glates right deus glitz that's so much better than sooth and deus glitz this situation
[01:09:06] and she also takes command of of both of those situations which proves that she has the leadership
[01:09:13] ability and the ruling ability to do this job yeah even though you know she's a woman yes
[01:09:21] god forbid a woman rule or you know can't have the ability to rule right stay in the bedroom
[01:09:29] bear the babies you know screw you so yeah uh yeah that was um that was one of my points as well as
[01:09:40] just that that whole that whole thing with um Otto and Damon and Raniera it's like we've all been here
[01:09:47] before mm-hmm yeah this time christin coal wasn't there was he no thank goodness yeah no but it was
[01:09:58] really interesting though because we had both sir eric who was on Raniera side and sir arc
[01:10:06] who was on the the uh green side behind Otto and you could definitely we got to see some glances
[01:10:13] between the two brothers definitely building some tension there so that's not gonna end well
[01:10:20] I mean it's yeah uh it's not great and it's you know definitely it's it's between this family
[01:10:29] right this feud between this family and it extends just beyond their family it's
[01:10:35] you know other families as well and yeah theirs is definitely a part of it that they're definitely
[01:10:40] split they don't see eye to eye on that as you know either um and just a comment a quick
[01:10:45] comment about sir I said sorry if I took your point there um no not at all I noticed that
[01:10:50] I was like wow so again echoing kind of the scene that we had earlier in in the series
[01:10:57] or in the season and I'm like gosh sir X doesn't look much bigger like shouldn't she have grown
[01:11:03] because dragon just continuously grow and right there's been many years it's passed I think it's
[01:11:09] 20 maybe one years this past since that scene I'm thinking why hasn't sir X grown and it then
[01:11:16] it occurred to me um if folks don't know much about dragons and dragon lore dragons grow more
[01:11:25] and they thrive off of like being like free or not chained up or kept so when dragons are
[01:11:35] like for example kept in the dragon pit um or when they're chained um or kept in a closed space
[01:11:43] they don't grow as fast or as much versus which is I think why regal and viscerian were
[01:11:50] significantly smaller than drogon I think so yes because we know dany locked them up for a little
[01:11:57] while um because she again was not able to control them and she was trying to protect
[01:12:03] people and they were kind of going rogue uh and then drogon however was off free so yeah he was I
[01:12:09] think bigger because of that and so I thought about that you know sir X is kept on dragon stone
[01:12:17] once they once they went to I think she was I think before they moved to dragon stone a few
[01:12:23] episodes prior to that when they were still at king's lane I think she was kept in the
[01:12:25] dragon pit and then when they went to um dragon stone I think she was kept there
[01:12:31] you know and just kind of kept isolated and when they don't have the room to grow
[01:12:35] they they don't grow as fast they don't grow as much they're kept smaller
[01:12:39] so for anyone who's maybe questioning why sirex wasn't as big I think that that
[01:12:44] kind of answers that question I know I thought about it and then I had to kind of think back
[01:12:48] like oh yeah if she's kept in you know small or not small like cruel or anything like that
[01:12:54] but you know what I mean just um kept not freely roaming right then that happens yeah
[01:13:01] that's a good point she looked good though still look good yes she did beautiful girl
[01:13:08] anyway that's all I had to say so um the last like big thing I guess it's really little but
[01:13:16] um I just I just love that table I love that table I love that table so much
[01:13:23] when it was lit up that was one of the greatest things I've seen I think it's the best shot
[01:13:29] of the season to be quite honest when that when they put the fire underneath that table and you
[01:13:35] saw the entire table and map light up it was stunning it was stunning it it was absolutely
[01:13:44] breathtaking and magnificent who who kept the secret from Daenerys and uh stanis
[01:13:51] and why didn't they see maybe there were melted candles or melted box or something on this table
[01:13:58] who's cleaning like hey what are these candles done under here oh maybe we should light them up
[01:14:02] and see what happens it was so pretty it was so it I mean it drew gasps from both of us on the
[01:14:11] couch like I believe it that doesn't happen a lot right like my husband is very stoic
[01:14:18] and so both of us were just like whoa oh like it was amazing it was amazing and I just um
[01:14:25] really really really enjoyed the visual artistry of that moment oh gosh it was glorious and you got to see
[01:14:37] all you know this whole map of Westeros right and all of its rivers and landmarks
[01:14:43] and it was it was gorgeous and there was gasps from my couch too so yeah you weren't the only one I just
[01:14:51] thought oh my gosh and all this time we didn't know that you could do that and I thought it was
[01:14:56] brilliant and just as a little history lesson that painted table was created by Aegon the
[01:15:01] Conqueror to aid in his conquest of Westeros uh so it was it was good to see it again
[01:15:09] I mean we've seen it in other episodes while we've visited Dragonstone in this series but you
[01:15:15] know it's good to see it again uh in a different way than what we came to know it in Game of Thrones
[01:15:21] it just and you know seeing that you know I talk about Dany like oh why didn't Dany what which
[01:15:26] why would she um and maybe Stannis too but seeing that and then seeing like Damon and
[01:15:35] Damon is so into their Valyrian their old Valyrian ways and so um honoring of Targaryen traditions
[01:15:44] and old Valyrian traditions and how he and Rhaenyra are you know they speak high Valyrian to each other
[01:15:52] and they very much like and he especially likes to keep the old ways you know oh let's go kill
[01:15:59] everyone everyone with dragons that's our way right that's how we win things it makes me so sad
[01:16:04] to like think of Dany in Game of Thrones and how she just didn't get any of that she doesn't have
[01:16:10] her culture and her histories and these stories and to be able to live and breathe and see those
[01:16:15] traditions um and just makes makes me sad but that's kind of like a side note but it
[01:16:22] that's kind of where my thoughts go when I see something like that and then you see Dany at
[01:16:26] Dragonstone later and it's like she she missed out on all of this right she didn't have any
[01:16:31] of her family guiding her and telling her about her history I mean she did but he was a wanker so
[01:16:41] he's a wanker yeah um that painted table a whole sequence yeah the lighting of the table and then
[01:16:47] you know you see that the table is set for war and then Damon announces her as the queen for
[01:16:52] the very first time and she now has these queens guard that comes in and they have new
[01:17:00] uniforms um look like now whether they're queens guard uniforms or other uniforms these uniforms are
[01:17:09] deliciously black and red and beautiful like they've got these rich cloaks and these amazing
[01:17:18] you know suits of I don't know armor and thread and whatever it is that it is but
[01:17:24] I did notice that there was a definite difference and what was interesting to me
[01:17:28] is that there seemed to be Kings Guard uniforms before and after that scene and then there were
[01:17:37] Queens Guard uniforms that were completely different in that scene so I'm wondering what
[01:17:44] if there if that was the Queens Guard if that was something different um
[01:17:49] so I hope we see more of those uniforms because I like them better yeah they were super cool
[01:17:54] and I'm hoping I just don't I get a little and take a peek at some of the news and interviews after
[01:18:02] the episode airs and while I'm trying to do my prep but I can't go too deep because I'm trying to
[01:18:06] really focus on my prep and my thoughts about the show so I'm really anxious that now unfortunately
[01:18:13] at the finale and now I'm going to have more time on my hands to really take a deep dive and
[01:18:18] really get like that behind the scenes stuff because I've really missed out on a lot of
[01:18:22] like where did these ideas come from where do they get these inspirations for the costume because
[01:18:27] the costumes have been just absolute perfection great so I'm really hoping to you know get those
[01:18:33] behind the scenes interviews from the folks that have you know been responsible for creating
[01:18:38] the hairstyles and the braids and the plates and um the the the costumes and you know the
[01:18:44] ideas behind that and was this intentional or oh well we didn't think about that but we're
[01:18:48] glad it worked out um so I'm hoping maybe we'll get get some of that um but I thought they were
[01:18:54] magnificent they they were pretty cool support queen mm-hmm I just I like the black and red too
[01:19:03] like it's just it's awesome yeah yeah my favorite colors uh anything else for that one before I
[01:19:15] was just gonna keep moving keep it moving we got so much to talk about and I know this is gonna go long
[01:19:22] well let's let's talk a little bit about um Damon and Renea's relationship taking a turn
[01:19:29] I know what you're gonna talk about and I think that that's that's our natural next step yeah
[01:19:36] because you know you've talked about the the trauma and the grief in the show and I think this
[01:19:41] is definitely where some of this comes out you know you can definitely see the impact when
[01:19:46] when princess Renea's shows up and announces Bissaris' death and how that um emotion comes
[01:19:52] across Renea's face and how that also impacts Damon it's in a different way um but it is impactful
[01:19:59] he loved his brother you know Damon Damon is a lot of things and but he he does love his family
[01:20:09] and you cannot say that he didn't love his brother and he's angry um and he's grieving
[01:20:21] and the scene between him and Renea when she clears asked the room to be cleared
[01:20:28] because obviously what she wants to talk about cannot be said in front of others it's a secret
[01:20:32] but she talks to him about a song by some fire and that is that prophecy that Bissaris
[01:20:38] passed on to her and she assumes that Damon knows about this because remember before Renea was born
[01:20:50] Damon was Bissaris' heir he was his heir um until she came along that's true so why didn't he
[01:20:59] say anything I oh I mean it's sad but you know and Bissaris I know loved Damon
[01:21:08] but I don't think he trusted him he said like he when Damon was like oh give me Renea
[01:21:16] you know when back in the young days right he's like give me Renea we had made to Renea
[01:21:22] he was Bissaris was like outraged absolutely not because that just gets Damon closer to the throne
[01:21:29] I think he he tried to keep him at bay he wouldn't have him on the council
[01:21:35] he didn't have him as his hand which I feel like was a mistake I don't think that he could trust
[01:21:42] I think he thought he couldn't trust him he thought for many reasons um and just one of them being
[01:21:48] at least a minor part anyway that Damon was a hothead and he was ambitious and he was selfish
[01:21:54] um and I say these things was he is he is all of those things not was
[01:21:59] so I just don't think he didn't trust him and I think it pissed Damon off that the series didn't
[01:22:05] share that with him because he should have because and especially in this world freaking
[01:22:11] Westeros people die all the time and right being a king or being an heir or a queen or
[01:22:18] princess being royalty didn't make you you're still human and you can still die of an illness
[01:22:24] you can die in an accident you could fall tripping down the damn stairs or something
[01:22:28] you know there I mean and there's not the modern medicine that can help you uh so
[01:22:35] you know I it would have been important I think that before uh Renea was born knowing that Damon
[01:22:43] was his heir and then when that secret was passed along to him he probably should have been like
[01:22:48] you know hey because I could die tomorrow I should pass this on to Damon and he didn't do it
[01:22:54] and I think that really pissed off Damon in that moment when he heard that from Renea and
[01:23:01] I just feel like because I I see so many comments online people that are outraged thinking that this
[01:23:07] is not that this is out of character for Damon and I'm sorry to say that it's not
[01:23:13] definitely not I'm really shocked by comments like that look I I like Damon I I think he's
[01:23:22] super fun to watch and I've said that countless times but I will by no means defend any of his
[01:23:27] actions really because I understand who he is um he's fun to watch you ain't gonna fix him sorry
[01:23:33] to say um and of course being played by Matt Smith I mean he's super charismatic so that
[01:23:40] you know certainly plays into things and I'm sure some feelings about him um but
[01:23:46] this is for me not out of his character he killed his wife smashed her head in I mean
[01:23:52] do we forget why he didn't go to the veil let's just talk like he didn't go to the veil
[01:23:58] there's a reason why right you know Damon is selfish he's ambitious uh
[01:24:06] and and many other things so this was not a great scene between him and Renea but I
[01:24:14] I see why he was acting out and what was behind it he just lost his brother he just lost his
[01:24:19] baby um he is some for some reason convinced that Viserys was murdered instead of him dying
[01:24:27] because of his illness um so and and of course he's ready for war you know and he's kind of
[01:24:36] being tethered and not being able to do I love to know why he thinks that too you know what I
[01:24:41] mean like why do you think that your brother has been murdered I I think part of it and again
[01:24:48] I don't know that I'm right this is just my perspective is I know he's never trusted Otto
[01:24:54] Hightower and he and with good reason right but I think that he I think anyway thinks that
[01:25:03] because of Otto's ambition to put Aegon on the throne that he would be looking for any
[01:25:10] reason to get rid of Viserys and we saw in uh episode eight when uh before Viserys died
[01:25:18] and they were visiting him remember he was sniffing that cup he's like can I you know give me my tea
[01:25:23] give me my tea oh yeah and he was sniffing the cup and I know we talked about that like well why is
[01:25:28] he sniffing the cup uh right and and I think you could have read a couple of different things
[01:25:33] into that it could have just been well is he's wanting to see if obviously what he's
[01:25:37] drinking but is he suspicious of what he's drinking or like oh it's just milk with a poppy I do think
[01:25:43] it was just milk with a poppy um but you can overdose on that you absolutely can I thought for sure
[01:25:50] I'm kind of in Damon's you know frame of mind that I I do think that he was probably overdosed
[01:25:58] on milk with a poppy for sure um by Allison whether it was accident or not I think that
[01:26:04] you know if they were to like I don't know look into it autopsy or whatever you know it was probably
[01:26:11] an accidental or on purpose overdose of milk with poppy for sure I'm sure he probably had a lot in
[01:26:17] his system um but also yeah let that man have his drugs because geez uh the amount of pain he was in
[01:26:26] yeah uh so I you know again it could have been accidental um but I mean I don't I don't think
[01:26:33] that they intentionally um poisoned him it could have been very much just either had too much or he
[01:26:38] just did succumb to his illness I mean the dude's face and he was like literally falling apart had
[01:26:43] ulcers all over his body and just right but anyway um he's I think just because he's so
[01:26:49] un entrusting of the greens Allison and egg or sorry not a gone necessarily but um Otto
[01:26:58] that he thinks that so I think he's having all of these emotions and he's really pissed
[01:27:02] and it comes out in that moment where he gets very physical with uh Reneira
[01:27:08] and she's obviously very taken aback and realizes he was not aware of that prophecy
[01:27:13] and I think that's also why she is kind of tempered a little bit as far as like trying to
[01:27:18] because that's what she tells him she's like you know it's not just for
[01:27:23] you know um you know do I just go and claim the throne no matter what
[01:27:27] or do I try to like hold things together you know she believes as part of this prophecy she's got a whole
[01:27:33] you know the seven kingdoms together for what's her first objective above everything else
[01:27:40] absolutely she feels that that's part of her duty so you know not not a not a great look for
[01:27:46] Damon in in this episode uh by any means but I just you know want to be clear that I I don't see
[01:27:52] that it was is not that it was awesome to watch or anything like that but it was just like that's
[01:27:57] that's a day but I know you know um yeah right and no I I wasn't surprised by it at all I mean
[01:28:04] yes it was he went a little too far but I think it was right in line with his character for sure
[01:28:10] and also just the emotions as well that that that pushed him to that not that's not a good
[01:28:16] that's probably not a good phrase but that was behind a lot of that was was the emotion there
[01:28:21] the trauma the loss the grief and experiencing it in a different way than Raniera you know
[01:28:27] seeing the fact that Viserys had this much of an influence over Raniera with you know
[01:28:32] him telling her you know the dreams and the prophecy and this he you know
[01:28:37] he's a very kind of black and white kind of guy he's like listen the reason why we're in power is
[01:28:41] because of the dragons like enough with the prophecies enough with the dreams enough with this
[01:28:46] like it's because of the dragons yeah we rule because of the dragons like shut up about the
[01:28:52] rest you know and so I think that that really goes to the two schools of thought on Tiger
[01:28:58] on the Targaryen dynasty right is is it the dragons is it prophecy is it a mix of both
[01:29:05] right and I think that there is nobody right now who thinks that it's a mix of both I think
[01:29:11] you fall on one or the other side and I would say that most people would side with Daemon in this
[01:29:19] with the fact that it is the dragons because people are scared of them they're you know they're
[01:29:23] very they're volatile they're they're B 52s they're nuclear bombs right and then you see
[01:29:29] you know Raniera's like but there's a prophecy and there's this and there's that and you're
[01:29:33] like shh shh we're not crazy okay let's not let's not you know drive them crazy here okay so I will
[01:29:41] move this right along awesome um and you know I just have a lot of like little things now
[01:29:49] yes to be quite honest um you know one of the things that I really liked was um the opening
[01:29:56] scene with Raniera and Luke um talking about destiny and duty uh Luke is very very nervous
[01:30:03] about taking over driftmark he thinks that you know his grandfather is going to die he thinks
[01:30:09] that he's going to have to take over driftmark he's really scared he knows that he's not ready
[01:30:13] um you know he he gets seasick his grandfather is you know I mean anybody following in in
[01:30:20] Corleis or big shoes those are huge shoes right like nobody and Lena or would have it wouldn't
[01:30:27] have been able to do it Lena wouldn't have been able to do it nobody's going to be able to do it right um
[01:30:34] vehement wouldn't be able to do it no no one is no one is toured as much as as Corleis in his
[01:30:41] years um right you know on the seas and and seen as much as what he has seen that's how
[01:30:45] he's built this wealth and and no one's done what he's done so yeah immense shoes to fill
[01:30:52] right and Raniera speaks about how she didn't want to take up the mantle of being the heir
[01:30:59] to the throne and she had to come to terms with it and she had to you know start to be ready for it
[01:31:06] and uh she said and you know you need to trust me that as your mother I'm going to help you
[01:31:11] too I'm going to be with you every step of the way and it's just it's so indicative of what a good
[01:31:17] mother she is because you see on the other side of the coin Allison who just you know disowns
[01:31:24] Aegon and then makes him king and you know ignores him for most of his life smacks him
[01:31:30] his mistakes it smacks him and you know whatever and then and then all of a sudden she's like
[01:31:36] I love you here's the cat spa here's this you're the king you're the best like I I'd have emotional
[01:31:42] whiplash over this woman you know and it really speaks to the fact that her children are horrible
[01:31:50] and Raniera's children are these really like down-to-earth honorable young men yeah
[01:31:58] who are taking their duties so seriously and so I love the fact that you just continued to see
[01:32:09] Raniera's mark on her children and how she has raised her boys and it's wonderful you know you
[01:32:17] even see like her stepdaughters that she's taken in as well who are you know happy to be there
[01:32:24] and seem to really like and respect her as well so you know she even got Rhaenys to come around on her
[01:32:30] so you know I know that you know we have were kind of you know team black apologists in some ways
[01:32:36] but there's something to be said for you know for the blacks and and the greens I mean they're
[01:32:43] they're so different and they're so different from their matriarch so I'm interested to see
[01:32:49] what happens going forward in season two the long long wait until season two yeah I long night begins
[01:32:58] yeah I totally agree with you such a beautiful scene but you know I and I agree with what you said
[01:33:03] and I but I also read a little bit more into what Luke was saying and I think because I think
[01:33:11] he and Jisera's both know they're bastard children yeah they're strong and
[01:33:19] I think he's saying without saying it that he's not he's like not worthy like I know
[01:33:26] I shouldn't be doing this and that he wants to say no to that because he doesn't feel
[01:33:31] like he's worthy of that I think Raniera can also sense that too
[01:33:35] you know but uh yeah there's a such a beautiful moment which again makes you know what happens later
[01:33:45] just you know it would be tragic no matter what but to see that sweet moment you know and how she
[01:33:51] is just so loving and sweet and respectful and rising like she's he's raising him up
[01:33:59] you know uh which is you know and you made a good point to that you know we saw when she was young
[01:34:06] how she's like I have zero interest in having children or getting married and doing all of these
[01:34:10] things that I'm supposed to do just because I'm a woman right like I'm supposed to want to do
[01:34:13] these things and I don't want to do any of them and you know it's it is funny because
[01:34:18] I think that that turns out some some people that have that attitude turn out to be the
[01:34:24] greatest parents and not to toot my own horn but you know I was never really interested in
[01:34:30] having children whenever I was young either like I was like no not for me and I obviously I have a
[01:34:38] child today well I say child she is a grown ass woman she's an adult um she's still my child um
[01:34:45] but you know I I would absolutely die for my girl you know and she has turned out amazing I don't
[01:34:52] know how um but you know I as of her mom well it's like you really do feel like there's something
[01:34:59] different once you know you think you don't want children and and then you have one and it really
[01:35:06] it's like wow you know you don't think you can do it and you don't think you're gonna be a good
[01:35:10] mom because you're like well I I don't know what to do and I you know wasn't interested this
[01:35:16] is not the path I chose for myself really but here I am and so I totally get that when
[01:35:22] that really resonated with me when you said that and I think that really shows there with
[01:35:25] Renea because I mean she didn't just stop at one you know she had as they were pointing out when
[01:35:30] she was in um labor with Visenya you know those are six baby so she obviously once she
[01:35:38] started having children I think really enjoyed motherhood as well and it really right set well
[01:35:42] it sits well with Renea yeah motherhood she's good at it for sure so anyway I did
[01:35:48] mean to throw in my personal note in there but um no I love it resonated and definitely
[01:35:52] shows with Renea she's good mom yeah um the last little thing I have and then I'll turn it over to
[01:36:00] you is um Horliss and his support for Renea um I love the way he comes in I love the way
[01:36:12] him and Renea speak to each other um as adults as equals um he takes on a very fatherly role
[01:36:20] which I think she needs in this moment yes um and he tells her the best news she could have heard
[01:36:28] which was that they control the stepstones they control the shipping lanes they can ice out
[01:36:36] King's Landing and I think that this is probably the single most important advantage that they have
[01:36:45] going into this is that they can essentially freeze all shipping all imports and exports in
[01:36:52] and out of King's Landing um and Renea's like comes up and she says I'm gonna look over that
[01:37:00] myself I'm I'm taking part in this as well and she all of a sudden Renea all all of a sudden realizes
[01:37:07] she has allies but she also has family that she can count on yes and this is a woman that has lost
[01:37:14] her dad lost her mom she doesn't have her friend anymore her half brother took her crown
[01:37:21] you know so she really needed to know that she had support of not only allies but family
[01:37:29] and Coralus I think really took on this role in um a very nuanced way and I'm very excited about
[01:37:38] Coralus being back in action oh yeah selfishly I just oh my gosh when he came in and I was like
[01:37:44] yes thank you I missed you I know all the all the episodes were like is Coralus alive what's
[01:37:49] going on with Coralus uh so it was good to one when we got finally um in a previous episode
[01:37:54] got confirmation that he is still alive anyway right um but well where the hell is he and then
[01:37:59] you had to have him back uh what an amazing show of support for Renea and I agree with everything
[01:38:05] that you said that it was you know such a turning point in their strategies and knowing
[01:38:14] how many houses that will not support her you know she you know isn't sure about who will
[01:38:23] you know she's still waiting for word about you know um Jace and Luke's you know what what
[01:38:30] what the word is back from those houses you know and who's going to support her moving forward
[01:38:34] and things are kind of shaky and knowing that Coralus commands such a large fleet
[01:38:42] at his disposal and I mean he is he's battle hardened and that's what was so great about
[01:38:48] having his experience there and um at the painted table you know all the wealth of knowledge and
[01:38:55] experience that he brings and now that they control the stepstones and uh they can like
[01:38:59] you said ice out king's landing shut down those shipping lanes that's huge
[01:39:06] and she really needed yeah she really did need that she needed that figure because Damon they
[01:39:11] her and Damon have had that moment that I mentioned um so he's off somewhere
[01:39:17] and we find out where which we'll talk I'll mention but um so he's off and she really needs that
[01:39:25] you know it's been peaceful times in Westeros since Jaehaerys it's been peaceful Visaris it was
[01:39:32] peaceful you know you don't have too many folks that have seen and no war and strategy and she
[01:39:40] really needs that as much as what I think they've tried to Visaris has tried to kind of prepare
[01:39:45] her to be heir and I don't think he did enough which you know I've mentioned before it's a fault
[01:39:51] of Visaris I think he should have done a lot more to include her but um you know there's not a lot of
[01:39:57] folks that have that experience so to have Coralus in your corner it's a big deal
[01:40:03] agreed totally agree love that so that's all I have so I turn it over to you my friend
[01:40:11] well I'll I'll mention just quickly I know we've we've touched on it a little bit but I want to
[01:40:17] make sure call out that impactful moment there at the very end after the battle at storms
[01:40:24] and between Aemond and Luke and we come back to Dragonstone and of course still everyone's
[01:40:32] still at the painting table you know talking strategy and you know it's a very slow motion
[01:40:38] which I thought was impactful and we get Damon coming in and you just know I mean you know what
[01:40:43] he's coming in the room for and very gently grabbing Renea's hand and pulling her away from the table
[01:40:50] and can't be said how much they do without any dialogue I mean we know that they're speaking
[01:40:57] to each other but we don't need to hear it to know what he's saying to her and
[01:41:01] and we can see Renea's reaction you know when she her hand comes down she stumbles a bit
[01:41:13] and she grabs I think she's grabbing her womb which she's just gotten the news of she's lost
[01:41:19] her her baby boy she just lost her daughter as well and and then she slowly you know rises
[01:41:30] and she turns and that look on her face the so here here's the culmination of all of the trauma
[01:41:41] that she went through she had a very traumatic birth birthing experience she has lost her father
[01:41:47] she has lost her baby she has lost her son her childhood friend has betrayed her her half
[01:41:57] brother has betrayed her and that whole side of the family has usurped her throne and betrayed her
[01:42:05] all of that comes out and all of her talk of trying to have things move forward in a peaceful
[01:42:16] manner to be diplomatic and to find a way other than setting all the cities on fire with dragons
[01:42:25] and more death I think is all eliminated in that moment with that one look and it was absolute
[01:42:35] perfection I loved it I did too I mean you could feel it you I felt everything in in that look
[01:42:48] and then of course cut to black and I'm just like oh my god kind of wait till freaking season
[01:42:54] so next week but absolutely amazing acting again I can't say it enough imitar see
[01:43:01] geez what a talent yeah so I had to mention that because I feel that was so impactful
[01:43:10] and yes brilliantly done and what a great great way to wrap up that episode
[01:43:16] um so as I mentioned Damon's off doing other things and he's out singing lullabies to dragons
[01:43:27] singing in high valerian which was an unexpected little moment and just I don't know just beautiful
[01:43:35] I want to go sing to a dragon that was great can we just stop for a moment and mention that you
[01:43:40] know Matt Smith has a very good singing voice didn't he though I did yes I wouldn't have known
[01:43:46] it was beautiful I was impressed yeah I mean I'm so glad I'm not an actor and that they're like okay
[01:43:52] now you gotta sing in this episode I'm like well you better get a stand in or lip sync or something
[01:43:59] so it's a nice treat when you when you know you have someone who who's also not just
[01:44:04] talented in their acting but also has a nice voice yeah it was what a nice surprise
[01:44:10] way to go Matt Smith agreed yes lovely singing voice in this high valerian lullaby that he is singing
[01:44:17] to this dragon and for anyone who isn't sure or doesn't know who this dragon is this dragon
[01:44:23] as I give an introduction to every dragon as they're introduced for the first time
[01:44:27] on screen this is vermouth or so vermouth or of all the dragons in westeros only vagar
[01:44:36] was older and larger so vermouth or is pretty big if you didn't if you didn't get that when he's
[01:44:43] lighting up I don't know if it's like a cave that's this dwelling that he's in wherever he's at
[01:44:48] as he lights up the sky I think you kind of get the idea of how big he is so he is only
[01:44:53] second in size to vagar and an H he was bronze in color with great tan wings he's
[01:45:01] almost a hundred years old at this time that we see him here so due to his side
[01:45:08] due to his size he's not as nimble in the air as some of the smaller younger dragons but his flame
[01:45:15] in the fullness of his power melted steel and stone amazing yeah pretty powerful and unlike his
[01:45:25] wild brethren vermouth or was accustomed to men and tolerant of their presence but when riled he was a
[01:45:33] truly terrifying dragon vermouth or was originally ridden by king jaharis king jaharis was the king
[01:45:42] just before viscerus he is the one that named viscerus his heir so that that is who and he's
[01:45:50] been unwritten all this time so once jaharis was either unable to because he was very old when he
[01:45:56] passed so i'm sure there came a time where he was unable to ride I don't remember exactly when he
[01:46:00] stopped but he lived a very long time but since jaharis's death vermouth or has been unwritten
[01:46:06] and just chilling out a dragon stone he's just chilling so I think it was good to kind of
[01:46:14] see him because we we get mention of a lot of dragons that are unclaimed and writerless
[01:46:22] vermouth or is among the writerless and so I think it's just a remembrance of
[01:46:27] there's other dragons out there you know so that's a good reminder and I think the scene was also
[01:46:34] because I mentioned earlier about amond not understanding vagar and the magnitude of what
[01:46:42] being a dragon writer of vagar means I think in the scene it shows how much daemon does understand
[01:46:50] dragons when yeah and and he does he's the dragon whisperer of this show totally 100
[01:46:57] percent totally uh so I you know he he understands them he respects them and I think
[01:47:06] you know because oh i'm in a hand he has to because his dragon craxies very aggressive dragon
[01:47:14] very battle hardened maybe not seen as many battles as what vagar has in her 170 180 years but
[01:47:21] you know craxies has been around the block too so very much a difference in the dragon
[01:47:29] writers and understanding and respecting the power of dragons and how how you can get them on your side
[01:47:36] you know and to be clear he's not bonding with vermouth or by any means he has a dragon no no so
[01:47:43] don't let you know if anyone's thinking oh is he bought no he's not bonding with the dragon
[01:47:48] getting ready for war yeah he's gathering up the dragons to say hey it's time fellas waking
[01:47:54] him up and I wanted to mention they did translate the lullaby that he was singing to vermouth or which
[01:48:00] I thought was because vermouth or was kind of like hey that's kind of nice you know so it makes me
[01:48:04] wonder did jaharis maybe sing this to him or something you know I don't know I don't know
[01:48:09] that sweet yeah but I was like he seemed to like kind of you know have this little interested
[01:48:16] nod to his head you know a little bit as he's staring at daemon as he's singing uh so really
[01:48:21] really great moment but it translates to and I'm not going to sing this again I'm not a singer but
[01:48:27] it translates to fire breather winged leader but two heads to a third sing from my voice the fires
[01:48:36] have spoken and the price has been paid with blood magic with words of flame with clear eyes
[01:48:43] to bind the three to you I sing as when we gather and with three heads we shall fly as we were
[01:48:52] destined beautifully freely so I think there's some context y'all can go look this up online I don't
[01:49:01] have it I didn't have a chance to get all I had way too many notes and just not enough time to
[01:49:06] get it all down maybe I'll talk about it in arm another episode um in the future I think we'll
[01:49:12] probably talk about later um there's some context there that I think there's some references to like
[01:49:18] agon and his uh sisters from the you know talking about the three headed dragon because that's what
[01:49:24] three headed dragon represents that where that came from was agon and his sister wives vasenia
[01:49:28] and reina um I think there's some references to that I think the um when it says the fires
[01:49:33] have spoken the price has been paid with blood magic um I think that's reference to old valyrian
[01:49:38] doom um so yeah thought it would agree with that yeah so some nice little references there and I
[01:49:46] thought just a wonderful moment and a good um juxtaposition between two dragon riders and
[01:49:51] how they understand or know dragons um one other little note because I think that this
[01:49:58] this is worth attention we've talked much about rena and the the kids
[01:50:03] so after rena is crowned queen uh reina comes up and gives her a cup of wine she must be I'm guessing
[01:50:12] now rena's cut bear and reina takes it from her sorry rena takes it from her and what does she do
[01:50:20] says come and she invites her to the table yes and then as they're walking she stops looks at
[01:50:26] beila and a little nod to her head and invites her to come too this is huge right rena inviting girls
[01:50:36] to the table and showing them that women have a place there too love that and I think that was
[01:50:44] also a little tipping point that helped reynies uh you know feel like even though she's waiting
[01:50:53] for corollus to make her decision right um and to based on his decision and you know talking it out with
[01:50:58] him uh but I think that she liked that too because of course reynies was that was taken from her
[01:51:08] right she she was the right player and that was taken from her and and because she was a woman
[01:51:12] and now she's seeing you know rena queen and how she is like including them to the table when
[01:51:19] rena was turned away when she was cut bear viscera's wouldn't let her have a word she wouldn't let her
[01:51:25] have a say or he wouldn't let her have a say he wouldn't let her come to the table and she is
[01:51:30] doing the exact opposite and she's she's including them and so I love that she has all of her
[01:51:36] children she's got the boys there the girls are standing there on either they're on either
[01:51:41] side of her which I thought was just great and it really shows a big difference between
[01:51:47] Allyson and Renea where Allyson who says a woman uh or women roll behind men by guiding them
[01:51:55] you know where Renea has always believed that a woman deserves a place at the table
[01:52:01] well she's been told that she has the place at the table and then nobody backed it up
[01:52:07] so I think that that that's such a good point that you're making and and I do love that I love
[01:52:12] it that I mean she invites everybody to the table when uh Jay said hey we're your dragon
[01:52:18] riders and they're gonna get there and we're gonna get there faster than anybody else let us go
[01:52:22] that's a big callback to when Renea made the same request to her father and her father shut her
[01:52:30] down and Renea knowing how capable she felt in that moment she knows that her sons are capable
[01:52:37] of this of this job and putting the trust in them allows it to happen that the seris didn't give her
[01:52:43] right right yeah so it was very small but I thought worth the attention
[01:52:58] yeah totally that's awesome um I can't wait to watch it again oh my gosh I'm gonna need a
[01:53:06] little bit of a break because I need some time to uh sit with it yeah sit with it gather my emotions
[01:53:12] it was pretty raw I know when I watched the second time right before we started recording oh goodness
[01:53:18] it was it was so pretty raw um couple other small notes um it's implied I don't think this is really
[01:53:27] too spoilery to say but it's implied but not known is is not 100 verified or confirmed
[01:53:34] that air axe was hatched from syrax so if that's true both Renea and syrax lost their sons at the same
[01:53:42] time oh breaks my damn heart can I make anyone any sadder yes it does yeah I hate that yeah um
[01:53:56] I read an interesting little piece about uh where ryan condol talks about um george's involvement
[01:54:06] and I I think it's important to remember how much he's involved but also um not as heavily
[01:54:12] involved is what some might think I thought he was a little bit more heavily involved not that
[01:54:14] he's not he's definitely given his sign off on the scripts the rough drafts he saw all the
[01:54:21] episodes before we did and said yep you're you're good um but ryan condol did say uh he said it's
[01:54:28] really hard for him to engage with us at the pace that we would need him to to weigh in on every
[01:54:32] single little decision the train's moving too fast but he always knows what's going on
[01:54:37] that's a thing that I promised him from the beginning might not always do exactly the thing
[01:54:42] that he wants me to do but we will always talk about it we will always have the discussion
[01:54:46] and I've honored that so it goes on saying condol makes it a point to keep
[01:54:53] him in the loop of the majority of creative processes martin agreed when and one of his
[01:54:57] blog posts right before the debut of the game of throne successor he mentioned that he had seen
[01:55:02] all 10 episodes um you know in the rough cuts he'd love them um he says house of the dragon
[01:55:08] he said is all I hoped it would be dark powerful visceral disturbing stunning to look at uh people
[01:55:15] are people with complex and very human characters brought to life by some truly amazing actors
[01:55:20] which of course is we know a big contrast to what happened with game of thrones that series but
[01:55:25] right just want to kind of throw that out there because I you know feel like again people's
[01:55:31] comments online and people are really kind of going off the rails with some of their comments
[01:55:36] just remember george has given a sign off on everything and that should be enough for everyone
[01:55:41] now I think so yeah um I had a list of offenses that everything team green has done to rinera
[01:55:49] I don't know if I need to repeat any of this I was having a moment I think I was being I was just
[01:55:56] very feeling Renea for everything that has been done to her and so I made a list I don't know
[01:56:02] if we need to I think we've talked about it um me if you want to say it I'll hear it I'm here
[01:56:08] this is just a condensed list or there could be more so if I missed anything feel free to
[01:56:12] point it out but uh let's see what is team green dendro nere they've harassed her and her family for
[01:56:16] 16 years of course you know keep continuously calling her children bastards uh they've killed Sir Harwin
[01:56:24] they stabbed her usurped her throne triggered her miscarriage and killed her son oh my gosh
[01:56:33] and possibly killed her father
[01:56:37] yeah at least daemon thinks so um right and you know I'm not here to like argue the morality of
[01:56:45] either side because there's everybody's going to do bad things so I'm not going to try and say that
[01:56:53] team blacks anymore um or has more uh moral high ground than anyone else but it's hard for me
[01:57:00] to look exactly like what exactly is Renea and her family done to allicent and her family
[01:57:08] versus what's been done so I feel like when you when you see Renea at the end and that look on
[01:57:14] her face think about all these things right and she's handled it all with a lot of grace so you
[01:57:23] know for this this to break the you know the straw that breaks the camel's back that's a big
[01:57:29] effing straw and especially all at once like she has no time to process um you know when she gets the
[01:57:36] news of her father's death uh that you know kind of triggers her miscarriage and losing the baby
[01:57:48] and learning that not only is her father died they've usurped her throne she loses her baby
[01:57:54] and then she loses her son all in the span in a very short time span you have no time to process any
[01:58:00] grief or any of this trauma um you you just have to keep moving forward and she's trying to like
[01:58:07] bury all of that but in that moment when she learns the the fate of of luke yeah so just I don't know
[01:58:15] if anyone needs to hear that it's but that's I think we all needed I think we all always
[01:58:22] need to hear it I mean it's a lot it's a right so anyway uh that's it for me all right well
[01:58:34] let's uh let's go into some listener feedback because we had some good feedback this week
[01:58:39] we always do I love our listeners honestly you guys bring it every week thank you so much
[01:58:45] I'm gonna miss all of you yes we're gonna have a long wait so um we need we need this to hold us over
[01:58:53] so I'll kick things off um Karen Stoll Medeiros says I've watched every Game of Thrones and House of
[01:59:01] the Dragon episode at least two to three times but I don't know when I'll be ready to watch that
[01:59:05] again as a book reader I knew what to expect and I felt like vomiting throughout almost the whole
[01:59:09] episode worrying about luke Reneira and Rainey's are amazing and I was so happy to see Lord
[01:59:16] Lord Corleys again being his badass self Lord Eric bringing the crown to Reneira was so moving
[01:59:23] very emotional episode so looking forward to the pod and book talk thanks thank you
[01:59:31] Megan O'Connell says I hate seeing the dragons die I knew it was coming I didn't know exactly
[01:59:37] how not a reader but I do listen to spoilers I had a lot of anxiety watching that scene and we
[01:59:42] have to wait too long for season two I know I agree Mae Omerdini says ah and the Dance of
[01:59:52] Dragons the heartbreak begins what an amazing episode and season my top moments that was
[01:59:58] the most dragons we've gotten in one episode the scene with Otto High Tower was great I
[02:00:05] loved how they brought that back he seemed to have a look of pride like how did you get that crown
[02:00:11] I thought it was interesting to see how level headed Reneira was versus how frantic Damon was
[02:00:15] in handling the situation he was out for blood and she wanted to get her ducks in order
[02:00:20] Rainey's was a boss I love seeing a woman who can put aside bad shit that happened to her
[02:00:24] and get behind another woman good point the boys are inexperienced at war they can't control
[02:00:31] their dragons and it leads to a tragic death that will change the course of everything thank you
[02:00:36] Rema Kristen and Grandmaster Renny your coverage and book talk was amazing I will miss listening
[02:00:41] to you guys and look forward to 2024 oh thank you so much thank you that was very kind
[02:00:49] uh I always mess up this name and I feel so bad Typhane the Balt says the look between
[02:00:59] Reneira and Rainey's during the Black Council especially after Lord Corliss knew uh renewed
[02:01:05] his oath those actresses those actors are so good I thought it illustrated so well the power of
[02:01:12] women to get the men hang on I thought it illustrated so well the power of women
[02:01:18] to get the men to abide to their aspiration while making them think it is them deciding
[02:01:24] the real power behind the valerian rally lies with Rainey's and the way she looks at Reneira
[02:01:32] it was like I got you girl that's how it's done I was a bit disappointed with the Storm's end scene
[02:01:39] as for once I thought it was more detailed in the book than on screen but I love the
[02:01:44] dragon fight reminded me of the long night ones the way it's sorry the way it's filmed
[02:01:53] amazing it had a star wars feel to it too quote and with his death the war of ravens and envoys
[02:01:59] and the marriage packs came to an end and the war of fire and blood began in earnest end quote
[02:02:06] can't wait for next season same
[02:02:11] Lindsay Schlick says okay I need that light from beneath the table especially for when I'm planning
[02:02:17] war that was amazing yes that scene where the good twin brought Reneira her father's crown
[02:02:25] was fantastic I declare him the eye candy of the show finally yes he is very handsome yeah
[02:02:35] I was so impressed when Damon crowned her and bowed I guess I should have known he'd
[02:02:39] fuck it up later by putting hands on her just when I was coming around on him he had to be a
[02:02:44] true shithead did anyone else notice badass reines in the background of half the scenes smirking
[02:02:50] never bowing I found her hilarious and absolutely fantastic this episode even though I knew what
[02:02:57] was coming that ending was just terrible I feel so bad for Luke and his betrothed she's such a
[02:03:03] happy cutie pie and always seemed so supportive this is terrible for her too I enjoy having a
[02:03:09] more fleshed out story seeing that Aiman might have regretted what turns out to be a terrible
[02:03:13] mistake I guess this will end Reneir's more tempered approach to war don't piss off mamas
[02:03:21] no I agree especially dragon mamas yeah no kidding yeah that was a really good point about
[02:03:25] Reneys we didn't really talk about that how and I kind of laughed too she's always in the background
[02:03:30] and everyone's bowing or kneeling bending the knee to Reneira as she's being crowned
[02:03:36] and she's like nope because she hasn't chosen sides yet right like she's waiting for Corleys and
[02:03:44] you know so but yeah she she kind of gets away with it because she hasn't chosen sides
[02:03:50] thanks Lindsay I think that she does choose sides but she's not going to really do anything until
[02:03:58] you know she knows that her husband's on board as well I do think she is probably in her mind
[02:04:04] knows which way she's leaning but I don't think she's going to formerly bend the knee or bow and
[02:04:12] things like that until Corleys until they have a chance to connect and talk yeah
[02:04:19] dude's been gone six years they got a lot to catch up on and they got a lot to talk about
[02:04:23] I know oh my gosh um thank you Lindsay um Alicia Stout says just when I thought I had a bad day
[02:04:35] boom nothing and I mean nothing in my life can ever top her near as bad day found out
[02:04:41] her father is dead gave birth to a stillborn which was so hard to watch to be honest
[02:04:46] cremated her baby became queen choked by her husband lost another child not sure about y'all
[02:04:54] but I would have had some serious anxiety or depression or stress I don't know but damn that
[02:04:59] girl can hold her shit together from mean Jawadi brings back the dragon music from Game of Thrones
[02:05:06] I loved hearing it again so being the shit mother Allison does do you think that she will
[02:05:12] punish Aamon for killing his nephew or nah? Alicia I love you that's so good yeah again
[02:05:22] I think that Allison's gonna be real mad she's probably not going to be thrilled considering
[02:05:29] you know it's it's not great all around for sure and if you've read the book then you know
[02:05:37] but again who knows what they'll take from the book or if it could be something completely
[02:05:42] different um right what happens but right yep that was really good Megan Dolores Rickleman says
[02:05:50] a stunning and tragic episode I especially love the details on and under the painted table and
[02:05:55] the shot of a vagar flying over Luke's dragon such a chilling way to demonstrate the massive
[02:06:01] size difference just wow ginger martina says 100% loving this series I was
[02:06:11] full of emotion and tears for Reneira she's such a good mother but what a horrific dark day
[02:06:17] the learn of her father's passing have a miscarriage be choked and ignored by her husband
[02:06:21] and then be crowned at her baby's funeral ugh I just don't have the words but I felt it deeply
[02:06:27] this is a tragic story Reneira has all the right stuff to be a good leader but she's
[02:06:32] surrounded by testosterone fueled men it's so alone but so strong I am not looking forward
[02:06:38] to the rest of her story also Damon is such a boy and a man's body grow up dude
[02:06:48] Lisa Edmondson Walker says oh that was hard to watch how much can one person lose in only a few
[02:06:54] days I had a bad feeling when I saw the much larger dragon looming but I was hoping it wasn't
[02:07:00] going to end that way it's going to be hard to wait so long for season two Brad Holt says
[02:07:08] probably an unpopular opinion but Reneira and company stole the driftmark thrown through lies
[02:07:13] and deception so isn't it just desserts for the throne to be stolen from her no okay no absolutely
[02:07:22] not Brad and I appreciate the unpopular opinion that you have however you're wrong because
[02:07:29] excuse me for getting emotional here but it's because the series and Coral is both consider them
[02:07:37] legitimate they have been legitimized or legitimate legitimized I have no words because I'm upset
[02:07:46] so if both of them if both of them consider them to be their true born family members then nobody
[02:07:54] else gets a say in this it's just the same as adoption surrogacy you know egg donation anything
[02:08:02] that we experience now it's the same as before Lenore could not produce he just couldn't so
[02:08:10] you know if somebody in a marriage can't produce a baby a lot of people go out and they find other
[02:08:16] ways to have children and to carry on their family line and this is how you do that because
[02:08:21] family doesn't have to always be DNA and blood so I do think that it's not a stolen
[02:08:34] it's not a stolen entity especially since who who was going to take it over like how did they
[02:08:40] wrong the greens by their decision making about driftmark like this this has nothing to do with
[02:08:47] allicent and the greens at all if I'm unless I'm wrong rima well I had actually replied to this comment
[02:08:59] oh you did well I actually was just a question honestly because I had just asked can you explain
[02:09:08] stole driftmark what do you mean by that because as what you just said Coral East named
[02:09:15] Luke his heir he he knows that by blood those are not his grandchildren he knows
[02:09:25] but he still chose to name Luke his heir that is his choice just you know so I'm
[02:09:35] I'm curious to know what that meant by stole driftmark no one stole driftmark Coral East knows
[02:09:43] the truth but he's still knowing that truth named Luke his heir and like you said
[02:09:50] they viscerus and choralysis all said true born these are my true born grandchildren
[02:10:01] that that's that's closed it in my opinion so I'm just right I don't yeah I don't know if
[02:10:07] there was a reply to that or not I didn't have a chance it was kind of while I was prepping and
[02:10:13] so I don't know but I have a very much you have a very diplomatic response I did not so
[02:10:20] no I just look I've said please forgive me Brad well I've said before and not that I'm saying
[02:10:26] that you did by any means but I do get very very passionate and I have tried to very much
[02:10:31] maintain because I I can I can definitely get strong and I'm trying to not do that so I'm
[02:10:40] like let's just ask a question can you explain more to me because I disagree
[02:10:48] but I appreciate that you express that opinion so anyway moving on Jody Morell says this episode
[02:11:00] was a roller coaster of pure emotion I almost would have preferred a glass case of emotion
[02:11:06] at least that's consistent
[02:11:13] um
[02:11:14] Sherry Moeford Moorford says this finale had me all over the place in my feels just watching
[02:11:20] Raniro reacting to everything with so much strength and grace I really enjoyed watching
[02:11:25] Rainey's through the episode as well especially after her badass move last episode she watches
[02:11:32] everything carefully and doesn't make any decisions until she's ready and feels confident
[02:11:36] in the right choice currently she is 100% my favorite character on this show
[02:11:42] Damon had me pissed off at him when he grabbed Ray I love the fact that she said Ray
[02:11:50] there is no excuse for it I have loved his character and still likely will but right now
[02:11:55] I'm really having to sort through my feelings on him because that was just wrong
[02:12:00] it feels like the smart and measured decisions on the black side were coming from the
[02:12:05] two badass women unfortunately I'm afraid that all may change next season considering what
[02:12:10] happened at the end of the episode we could literally go on and on about everything that
[02:12:14] happened in this episode that the podcast is only so long you can't wait to hear all your
[02:12:19] thoughts you know what it's long it's a very long podcast we're sorry yeah all all the apologies
[02:12:29] I don't know how to keep any of this shorter than what we do because honestly
[02:12:34] this could be five six hours honestly I feel like we're showing restraint we're being very much
[02:12:41] we're channeling Reneira we're showing restraint for us yes
[02:12:47] Nico Reese says RIP Luke loose and small boy all yeah so we have one message we got Steve
[02:13:04] this week which I'm very excited about Steve did leave us a message last week but it came a couple
[02:13:09] days late so I'm glad that he got it in on time this week so I'm gonna leave it to our live steving
[02:13:20] all right here we go house the dragon season finale oh hey what hey dragon cast this is Steve
[02:13:27] so Luke gets seasick and he's going to be lured to the tides uh I mean Damon's right
[02:13:31] she could have burned them all down and she didn't oh and now she's going into labor so
[02:13:37] we had a birth to begin the season we're gonna have a birth to end the season I'm I thought
[02:13:41] Coralus died is now they're saying the sea snake is alive is that Reneira's dragon we're seeing
[02:13:47] suffering along with her in when she's in pain oh I'm glad I don't have to watch this twice
[02:13:52] oh no oh it's still birth oh okay whose crown is that and which twin is this
[02:14:00] all these names from Game of Thrones the Brathian Stark someone that's supporting Durgari what are
[02:14:06] oh I'm confused whoa okay I know you're gonna explain all of that all those dragon talks
[02:14:12] and the 14 dragons and the three and the three wild dragons what oh you're drunken you
[02:14:20] sort of a cunt of a king wow Damon tell us how you really feel whoa Damon grabbing
[02:14:28] Reneira's throat like that what's up she really does look scared of him right now
[02:14:33] okay so I guess Coralus is alive here he is wow lord Coralus coming to see Reneira directly
[02:14:39] himself oh the boys are pretty smart dragons can fly faster than ravens and they're more convincing
[02:14:45] now what is Damon doing he can't claim a second dragon can he okay so this is Luke coming to
[02:14:51] me with somebody oh and what's his name amen oh no Luke I don't think you can beat
[02:14:58] amen and say with the ipad amen with a duel oh that was a close one I don't know lord what
[02:15:07] which one is this guy now sending Luke back to his dragon hmm oh is that amen on his dragon
[02:15:13] behind Luke in his dragon are we gonna see a dragon fight oh man an amen dragon is huge
[02:15:19] oh did he just bite him in half oh will someone just drew first blood in this war and that look
[02:15:29] on Reneira's face wow can't wait for next season thanks Steve Steve um I really like listening to
[02:15:40] what his reactions are because I'm just like oh buddy oh buddy I know get to the next one
[02:15:47] wait till you get to the next one it's such it's such an adventure um I feel like we're kind of on
[02:15:53] that ride too and if it helps you know look I certainly don't have everyone memorized I know
[02:15:58] everyone struggles with with names and who's who and you know we've got like two agons and
[02:16:03] stuff and all these dragons I have charts I I have I have I'm looking at a chart right now
[02:16:08] of the dragons um in this era and the dragons on team black the dragons the greens um have
[02:16:16] one their side the wild dragons and the unclaimed or writerless dragons um so that's how I help keep
[02:16:22] things straight I also have the Targaryen family tree uh chart so it yeah it helps that's the only way
[02:16:31] I can keep things straight so don't feel bad for not keeping who's who green yeah it takes a lot of
[02:16:38] work it takes a lot of work it does it does plus I'm just always immersed in it as well so
[02:16:45] that's that's one thing when you live and breathe it but that was great yeah the always appreciate Steve's
[02:16:51] voice mails it's it's always an adventure I feel like I'm kind of reliving it a little bit
[02:16:58] a lot of great feedback thank you everyone um for all the um engagement with us
[02:17:06] and all of that feedback I know there's a lot of opinions and we appreciate hearing all of them
[02:17:13] and gosh it's gonna be a long wait we hope you guys are with us when season two comes back
[02:17:23] yes remember us family yeah come find us okay and here we are for our final book talk of
[02:17:34] season one it's a very sad state of affairs but we will press on as usual we have Rima and myself
[02:17:43] and then fresh from the citadel riding on dragonback maybe uh is uh absolutely arch master arch master
[02:17:51] ready is joining us for the last book talk section of the season welcome ready thank you I am going to
[02:17:58] try to repress my sobs so that we can get through this book talk yeah I uh I just had the seasons
[02:18:05] over I just finished my second watch and I was a way more emotional during second watch than I
[02:18:12] was first watch by a mile me too me too well I think the shock yeah I was in shock yeah the first
[02:18:19] watch the second watch then it all settled with me Renny where would you like to start well first
[02:18:26] of all I'm going for those of you who maybe haven't joined us uh all season long we do book
[02:18:31] talk in two different sections first section is that we talk about the book related to the
[02:18:36] specific episode then I give a super annoying alarm sound and we tell you that we are going to
[02:18:43] the book and the show as a whole and that's when we talk about the entire book and the entire
[02:18:50] everything so if you don't want to hear any of it turn it off now and we'll catch you next time
[02:18:57] if you want to hear just the show to the book specifically to this episode come along and join
[02:19:03] us and then when you hear my super annoying alarm you'll know to either turn it off or continue
[02:19:09] listening um should be a really good book talk this week so I invite you to join us and I'm
[02:19:16] going to turn it over now to Archmister Renny um and she's gonna guide us through our discussion
[02:19:22] ready to go I'm ready to go thank you awesome so I want to start by saying that I have a
[02:19:29] really a much more complicated relationship to this episode than I have to any of the other episodes
[02:19:36] on first watch as I was watching I kept saying no no that's not how it goes and uh it was only
[02:19:46] listening to Ryan Condol's interview in the official HBO podcast hey HBO choose us for season
[02:19:53] two yes we're very good throw our hats in the ring so it was only listening to his interview
[02:20:02] on that podcast that made me see how very much in keeping this episode is with the show version
[02:20:09] of events that is focused on revealing the horrors of the patriarchy and how brilliantly
[02:20:19] the show portrays Reneira managing the power that she now has and doesn't have um my first reaction
[02:20:28] was that they had fallen into that cliche of women being peacemakers and not allowing Reneira the
[02:20:36] rage that she has in the book but then I saw it differently and realized she's not being a
[02:20:42] peacemaker or a conciliator in that cliche stereotypical way she's just being rational in how she proceeds
[02:20:51] for she's being her father yeah I think she's got she is on your side of that she got from viscera
[02:20:58] yes that's right um so I want to I want to read a quote from what Ryan Condol said in the
[02:21:07] podcast because it's very interesting about the way that he sees the relationship between
[02:21:14] the book and the show uh as well so he says he's always wanted this show to act as a companion
[02:21:21] piece to the book and the book as a companion piece to the show in a way that most adaptations
[02:21:28] cannot coexist happily and peacefully I really think these two the show in the book can
[02:21:35] because I think probably the people who will enjoy this the most are the people who have read
[02:21:40] the book and see the show and aren't I would say in the nicest way possible aren't devoted to one or
[02:21:47] the other and that can just appreciate them both so here's an advertisement everybody read the
[02:21:52] book read the book read the book that was an interjection that wasn't Ryan Condol that was me
[02:21:58] I think we've got another convert this week so yay oh excellent yeah uh so uh
[02:22:04] Ryan Condol says that the two exist in harmony with one another because the book is a historical
[02:22:09] account written by people that did not live through that time unless you believe mushroom
[02:22:17] the book is a document that got some things right and some things wrong the show is going to be
[02:22:23] this version of the objective truth so in the show canon the same show universe that
[02:22:30] Game of Thrones exists in this is the objective truth of what happened at least in the scenes that
[02:22:37] we're choosing to put on screen to show you the book is a history book it's written by all men
[02:22:43] as Kristen has been saying all season it's written by all men most of them are if not green
[02:22:49] supporters green leaning history itself is a piece of propaganda oftentimes I think this
[02:22:57] book is no different and that is the sort of thematic approach that we have taken
[02:23:01] the show enhances the experience of reading the book and the book enhances the show
[02:23:07] and I think that's exactly what they've done they've said wait a minute what if this story
[02:23:12] were not being told by green leaning propagandist men how might it look how what might we see
[02:23:20] Reneara doing and as soon as I heard that I thought score yes I'm I'm made my piece with
[02:23:29] this the choices in this episode gosh I think that that's such a smart way to do this too because if
[02:23:36] if you're two male show runners as Miguel Sapochnick and Ryan Condol are
[02:23:42] and you set out from the very beginning telling everybody that will listen that this is really
[02:23:49] going to focus on what the patriarchy has done to these women smashing the patriarchy I mean you
[02:23:56] really want to sink your teeth into those themes right but you have to come to you have to come
[02:24:04] to some sort of realization that it is written by men that these are written not only by men
[02:24:11] but by green leaning as you said running men right of old town that then and land of high tower so
[02:24:20] it's so smart to view this as a companion piece and how lucky is Ryan Condol to have a companion
[02:24:28] piece trajectory rather than the game of thrones adaptation where the book was a wonderful
[02:24:37] adaptation the show was a wonderful adaptation to the book and then all of a sudden just egos and
[02:24:46] forgive me the patriarchy decided you know that they knew better and destroyed it on the way out
[02:24:53] right and so I love it that Ryan Condol is saying look there it is going to be different we're
[02:24:59] going to have this human element that's female centered in its perspective and we're going
[02:25:04] to have you compare it and think critically about the source material that is a compilation of all
[02:25:12] different sources and then compiled by one person who gets to pick and choose what goes in it by the
[02:25:19] way I mean you know it's kind of like when when you think about and this is just because of
[02:25:25] of I don't know of another popular text that that did this the bible is that way right the bible
[02:25:34] was written by men the bible was the stories were compiled by men so you know the people that put
[02:25:42] together the bible are the ones that decided that they got to dictate the story and probably
[02:25:48] that in the inner go ahead i'm sorry i'm really sorry i'm sorry i think you cut out for a
[02:25:53] minute and I thought you'd stopped sorry but i cut out a section of the quote from Ryan Condol
[02:25:59] where he does talk about the bible and how it was written yes at least 40 years after the events
[02:26:07] that it recounts and he says that would be like trying to remember in detail something that happened
[02:26:12] in 1982 and that um that's exactly the same as fire and blood is written and so he
[02:26:22] he did also cite the bible as you're citing as another example of that kind of text yeah I mean
[02:26:30] there's a lot of history texts that do that right I mean you know you look at you look at anything
[02:26:34] of people that are trying to piece together what happened um you know at the dawn of time or
[02:26:40] in you know any of the ancient world modern history books even in the modern books that was
[02:26:45] left out of our modern history I mean even if you look at I never learned in school I mean yeah
[02:26:50] I mean if you look at slavery you you know that you know a lot of slavery was written by
[02:26:55] the the the white perspective right and it's only now that we're starting to get the black
[02:27:01] perspective right and that changes the whole story so I love it that um that the book
[02:27:08] and the show are meant to be viewed as companion pieces because looking back on it that's how I
[02:27:16] totally regarded uh regarded it and I didn't even realize it until you just said that quote so
[02:27:22] that's really cool that's awesome yeah yeah I think so too okay so diving in um so it's
[02:27:29] very hard to say how many pages this episode covered because it skipped over a whole chunk
[02:27:36] of things that we are going to see in season two but they've just told the story so they're
[02:27:43] in the book there are several things that happen simultaneously but you have to read
[02:27:46] about them one at a time right and so they've just reversed the order of the telling and so
[02:27:52] we will see the other events in season two so when the episode starts we're on page 402
[02:28:00] of the book and when the episode ends we're on page 422 but but it entirely skips over pages 412
[02:28:08] to 417 so I really think it's about 17 pages that they covered in this episode which is a lot
[02:28:14] because the previous record for number of pages that they covered in an episode was 12
[02:28:18] so they're really accelerating the pace of um how much of the book they're covering
[02:28:25] in each episode so just as a reminder in the book Rainies was not in King's Landing when
[02:28:34] Aegon II was crowned she was on Driftmark with Corleys who had long since recovered from the illness
[02:28:41] that had brought on the Driftmark succession crisis and also he had not gone back to the
[02:28:47] war in the Stepstones so in the book version it is not Rainies who brings the news of the
[02:28:54] coup to Dragonstone it is um Sir Stefan Darklyn who is the Kingsguard Knight in the book who steals
[02:29:04] Viserys's crown and brings it to Rhaenyra in the show Sir Stefan Darklyn and Sir Lauren Marbrandt
[02:29:11] are the two Kingsguard who are already on Dragonstone uh and they're the ones who Damon
[02:29:20] asks for loyalty on Pain of Dragonfire something which does not happen in the book
[02:29:28] so at any rate it's Sir Stefan who brings the news of the coup along with the crown
[02:29:33] and it is this news which sends Rhaenyra into labor a month prematurely and the show plays
[02:29:40] this very very differently from the book uh in the book she's in labor for three days
[02:29:46] the news of the coup drove her into a black fury and her rage brought on the early birth as if
[02:29:54] quote as if the babe inside her were angry too and fighting to get out she shrieked curses during
[02:30:01] labor uh quote calling down the wrath of the gods upon her half brothers and the queen
[02:30:07] and detailing the torments she would inflict upon them end quote she cursed the child too
[02:30:13] according to Mushroom who was there he was uh on Dragonstone nodding things landing
[02:30:20] shouting quote monster monster get out get out get out third time all in caps end quote
[02:30:28] which she did do and she didn't say monster she did say get out get out i said that during my
[02:30:34] she said monster i'll say in three days labor i'd probably be saying i know she was pulling that
[02:30:41] head out too i was like what are you doing um yeah so you know i want to say something about
[02:30:50] one thing i'm really impressed with with this show is that they i can't think of a you know another
[02:30:57] science fiction or fantasy show ever or any kind of show really that has just unabashedly
[02:31:02] showed so much about female bodily functions when she sticks her hand under her dress and
[02:31:07] brings it back out all bloody you know how often do you see something like that but it was very real
[02:31:13] and very impactful i thought i agree but anyway i don't think she said monster in the show i think
[02:31:20] she just said get out yeah no she didn't say monster yeah um so the baby was a stillborn
[02:31:28] monster quote twisted and malformed with a hole in her chest where her heart should have been
[02:31:34] and a stubby scaled tail now it's a mushroom who gives us that this description um however there's
[02:31:44] great there's precedent for this and there's subsequent things for this um there are there's
[02:31:49] a great fan theory that in ancient valeria the valerians not the valerians the valerians
[02:31:56] from valeria um actually somehow did some sort of magical genetic mixing so that they are literally
[02:32:07] blood of the dragon that they have some actual kinship to dragons which is how they controlled them
[02:32:14] and that is why targaryens have a history of having deformed children that have dragon-like
[02:32:22] features and where we've seen this before is with rago the stillborn child of denaris targaryen in
[02:32:31] game of thrones who uh it is described as having distinctly dragon-like features
[02:32:40] before we started recording reman i were talking about we we both freeze framed and looked at the
[02:32:46] baby to see if they gave it a tail and uh we're pretty sure they did not um i think that they actually
[02:32:53] right alluded to it though because i saw that the back of the baby the back of the baby was
[02:32:59] like narrowing and we only saw one foot a one foot yeah um when when when she came out and i'm
[02:33:08] assuming they kept her as a she yes they never said anything about that uh oh however i did hear
[02:33:18] that there was dialogue translated into valerian um by the creator of the valerian language that
[02:33:27] was not actually used in the show uh so let me read the next the next line from the book and
[02:33:33] yeah because renera names the stillborn daughter visenya of course she names her visenya yes of course
[02:33:40] it's visenya and she says she was my only daughter and they killed her they stole my crown and murdered
[02:33:49] my daughter and they shall answer for it um so the the line i don't have the exact line um
[02:33:57] um but it it was something like um uh she she would her name was visenya she was my only daughter
[02:34:08] and she was sent to us as an augury from the gods as a warning so they were gonna have
[02:34:17] renera say something about her being a girl and being her only daughter but she was gonna
[02:34:23] say it in valerian uh but they didn't they either cut that line or they never you know before they
[02:34:30] filmed it or after they filmed it but it did exist so it was in a draft of the script earlier so
[02:34:36] yes it was a girl that would have been an amazing and i mean i i already think that you know just
[02:34:41] her staring and into the camera you know at the very end silently was perfection but it would
[02:34:48] have been awesome also if she said that in valerian yes and she added on and they murdered my son attached
[02:34:54] to that you know yeah that would have been a really like a factual hunch to the season yeah but you
[02:35:01] know also her nonverbal acting is excellent so i mean their nonverbal acting is excellent
[02:35:07] renera's nonverbal emotion is wonderful i'm sorry yeah yeah yeah um so as i was saying earlier i think
[02:35:20] and um as i think christin you said that um renera is more like visaries i think that's exactly what
[02:35:27] they're doing is they're trying to make her a more peaceful ruler like visaries um which is what
[02:35:32] draws reynice to her side in the show um uh but in the book renera is just all about stopping this
[02:35:42] usurpation um christin i uh in the main part of the podcast last last week i heard you struggling
[02:35:50] with usurpation so just usurpation usurpation i think i said i think i said about a hundred
[02:35:58] different ways to say it i was like one of them had to be right yeah so in the book renera is just
[02:36:08] you know enraged and wanting nothing except to stop the usurpation so she calls that she calls the
[02:36:17] meeting of what the book calls the black council to distinguish it from the green council and she
[02:36:23] presides over it and then a lot of the dialogue in the show is directly verbatim out of the book when
[02:36:32] daemon talks about the numbers of the forces they have and the names of the houses of their
[02:36:38] probable allies uh that just comes straight out of the book uh corleys i was so pleased yes it
[02:36:44] was great with how much they used yeah they used a lot um corleys was already there he didn't
[02:36:49] have to make a dramatic entrance because nobody thought he was dead at this point and luke is not
[02:36:55] having to have worries about inheriting driftmark prematurely because corleys is you know healthy
[02:37:02] um he's old though and he says that although he has grown old he is clinging to life quote
[02:37:09] like a drowning sailor clinging to the wreckage of a sunken ship mayhaps the seven have
[02:37:15] preserved me for this one last fight and reines is there with them her black hair remember in the
[02:37:22] book she has black hair because her mother's a baratheon yep is streaked with white um and yet
[02:37:30] she is as fierce and fearless as she had been at 22 reines is amazing this is reines is amazing
[02:37:38] the queen who never was just freaking and it's amazing this is the part of the book where the
[02:37:44] the nickname the queen who never was comes from its mushroom who calls her the queen who never was
[02:37:50] and mushroom pans a funny line um he says what did visceris ever have that she did not
[02:37:58] a little sausage is that all that takes to be a king let mushroom rule then my sausage is thrice
[02:38:05] the size of his i remember that that made me giggle so hard when i read that first time that's
[02:38:14] funny and and you know it's it's true just just because what you got between your legs doesn't mean
[02:38:20] you're any any more fit to rule you know so he's absolutely right yep um so then the black
[02:38:28] council talks about all the advantages that the green have in greens have including all the
[02:38:34] symbols of legitimacy that agon has the iron throne the conquerors crown and the sword
[02:38:40] they don't say anything about the dagger because daggers not a thing in the book at this point
[02:38:47] then they discuss renais advantages including the oaths that everyone has sworn when she
[02:38:53] went and she was named air um and the pro popularity she'd had when she was known as
[02:38:59] the realms delight when she was young but then the male green leading writers of this book say
[02:39:10] you know that many many suitors sought after her when she was the realms delight but
[02:39:16] the question of how many would still fight for her now that she was a woman wed her body aged
[02:39:22] and thickened by six childbirths was a question none could answer
[02:39:30] uh
[02:39:32] and yeah so you know it just so many i rule yes exactly um so then they also count among their
[02:39:40] advantages the wealth of house valerian the valerian fleets and prince daemon's experience
[02:39:47] of warfare which is greater than that of all their foes combined and dragons so it's maester
[02:39:56] jurardus um who points out that uh agon also has dragons and this is what i i i miss from the show
[02:40:06] i understand why they changed it but i love the way eve best the actor who plays renais speaks
[02:40:11] and i would have just loved to hear her speak these lines renais says we have more can can
[02:40:18] you just picture with me for a moment eve best as renais saying we have more
[02:40:24] her i can because i really do love her uh i think she's a fantastic actress i think she's
[02:40:30] doing a fantastic job as renais so yes i can visualize and hear that perfect you hear her
[02:40:35] so they give the line i'm sorry did you hear the um her being interviewed or doing her piece in
[02:40:42] the afterwards in the inside the episode and her voice was so much different it was almost a little
[02:40:48] yeah skier yeah so i love it when when actors change their voices just a little bit i think it's
[02:40:56] just awesome go on i i just needed to say it yes yes um so they give that line to daemon in the show
[02:41:08] and uh um in the book they the narrative points out that renais had been a dragon rider longer
[02:41:17] than anyone else at the council she and mayleys have been together longer than any of the other
[02:41:26] bonded dragon and rider pairs um and she's the one not daemon who counts off the dragons
[02:41:34] and and she says all of ours are larger and stronger but for vegar
[02:41:40] um dragons thrive best here on dragon stone uh so she counts out the greens dragons agon
[02:41:50] sunfire aamons vegar helena's dream fire daeron's tesarian and ryan con condol has a lot of georgia
[02:42:00] r martin confirmed and now ryan condol has confirmed that daeron will be in the show in
[02:42:05] season two um and that so that makes four dragons of fighting size for the for the greens uh helena's
[02:42:13] twins have hatchlings and her youngest son has an egg so that's the total of the dragons that the
[02:42:19] greens have among the blacks daemon has caraxies uh raniere has syrax jace has vermax luke luke's
[02:42:30] aerax joffreys tyraxies and agon the younger has storm cloud although storm cloud has not yet
[02:42:37] been ridden young dragon not yet old enough to be ridden um and young visceris has an egg which
[02:42:43] she carries about with him everywhere but it has not hatched um bella has moon dancer also not
[02:42:49] yet ridden a young dragon and rena has an egg from syrax's latest clutch the reason she
[02:42:57] doesn't have a dragon is because her first egg had hatched a broken thing which had died within hours
[02:43:04] and one of things uh that many readers of the books have pointed out is that syrax seems to
[02:43:13] produce a clutch of eggs every time rena is pregnant so it's the bond between the dragon
[02:43:18] and the rider there's so many theories about the targaryen women and the like at least
[02:43:26] right now in the time of this targaryen history there's more dragons than there ever has been
[02:43:31] and by the time we get further in history to where like we get catch up with the game of throne show
[02:43:37] and there's like none until danie um there's a theory about the targaryen women and dragons
[02:43:45] and how dragons seem to thrive along with targaryen women interesting interesting yeah
[02:43:52] there's there's more to that i don't have it in front of me but i've read it and again it's it's
[02:43:57] just again like a theory if you look at the you know the dragons and targaryen women and pregnancies
[02:44:03] kind of like what you were saying that it's it seems to be tied together interesting that can't
[02:44:08] be in that can't be on accident no nothing in these books are accidental that's specific
[02:44:15] that's right an accident and so then the the the last of the dragons that has a rider is
[02:44:24] reynice's maleace the red queen who had quote grown lazy but remained fearsome when roused and
[02:44:31] quote and then there's six other dragons that live on dragonstone sea smoke who was lanors
[02:44:40] um vermouth or who is the dragon we saw daemon uh singing a valyrian lullaby to
[02:44:46] i was that was the best jaharis's dragon yes vermax had been king jaharis's and has not had
[02:44:53] a rider since jaharis died 30 years ago he's just been chilling out just chilling yep and also
[02:45:00] silverwing who had been queen ala sands dragon um who also um hasn't had a rider since queen
[02:45:08] ala sands death and then the three wild dragons um sheep stealer gray ghost and the cannibal
[02:45:16] oh god i want to see cannibals so bad and reynice says that if they find it's reynice who says this
[02:45:22] that if they find riders for those six then they will have 12 dragons even without um
[02:45:29] storm cloud the young the young dragon who hasn't been ridden yet uh and reynice says
[02:45:35] that is how we shall win this war i did like the way that daemon like wrapped it all up though
[02:45:42] and at the end he's like and then you know all of this is wrapped up by by the next moonfall or
[02:45:48] something like that like he's just let's do this like yep yeah plan execute yeah um so at this
[02:45:55] there's a weird thing in the show which i think is a mistake because uh in the show reyniris says
[02:46:02] this very odd thing to daemon she says none of our dragons have been to war but caraxies daemon's dragon
[02:46:10] in both the book and the show has the most battle experience next to vagar well and see
[02:46:15] smoke daemon took it took him to the stepstones and in the show but not in the book um sea smoke
[02:46:22] was also in battle in the stepstones so it's really weird that reyniris says that
[02:46:27] because they're in show there are two dragons that have battle experience and
[02:46:34] have been to war and so i don't know why reyniris says none of our dragons have been to war i'm
[02:46:38] wondering if that's like reynirah the mother that is speaking because she's knowing that her
[02:46:42] children who are also dragon riders will like are being counted as going to war and maybe she
[02:46:50] doesn't see you know daemon as a part of that group in that moment such a generous interpretation
[02:46:59] christin i think it's just a mistake okay i i think it it might be yeah um because yeah caraxies
[02:47:07] does have outside of vagar which is on unfortunately yeah the green side um does have and i think
[02:47:16] very well known even in the show i mean it's talked about quite sensibly in the book
[02:47:21] but i think even in the show it's quite clear how battle hardened daemon and caraxies is
[02:47:26] but i wonder i do think it was a little bit of an error on her part but i wonder if it was maybe
[02:47:31] a little drop little nugget of information for what comes later at the end between vagar
[02:47:40] and arax it may be yeah aamond you know saying that you know they're dragons and arax being a part
[02:47:47] of their dragons not having that right experience because i think that definitely plays into that
[02:47:53] confrontation there yeah i think so again maybe i'm being a little generous too i
[02:47:59] i think it was a little bit of an error but i'm just like well trying to figure out what
[02:48:03] yeah what the purpose was yeah so both renera and reynice uh are going for war without hesitation
[02:48:14] in fire and blood the book um and uh after reynice says this is how we will win this war
[02:48:22] about the dragons then lord keltegar urges her to fly to king's landing at once and reduce it
[02:48:30] to ash and bone and it's core lease who answers this and he says how will that serve us we want to
[02:48:37] rule the city not burn it to the ground so then lord keltegar says that the usurper will have to
[02:48:43] meet dragons with dragons and um the nine dragons of the blacks will overwhelm the usurpers for
[02:48:50] and then renera says at what cost three of the dragons would be ridden by her sons
[02:48:58] and it wouldn't be nine against four because she wasn't yet strong enough to ride
[02:49:03] and as for silver wing vermithorne sea smoke who would ride them you my lord she asks lord keltegar
[02:49:12] so it would be five against four and one of the four would be vagar so there would actually
[02:49:17] be no advantage and daemon agrees daemon says dragons can kill dragons and they have
[02:49:25] any maester who has ever studied the history of valeria can tell you that
[02:49:30] and he suggests that renera have a core rage coronation she hasn't been crowned yet at this
[02:49:35] point in the book and then they'll send out ravens calling the lords to declare allegiance to
[02:49:40] their two true queen daemon says we must fight this war with words before we go to battle
[02:49:49] and then the rest goes down exactly the same as in the show the book and in the show are
[02:49:54] the same here they decide that daemon will lead an assault on heron hall the valarion fleet will
[02:50:01] blockade king's landing in the gullet which is a waterway leading to the river that flows by
[02:50:11] king's landing while reines patrols the the sky with her dragon and when they talk about sending
[02:50:17] ravens to their possible allies jace suggests that he and luke should go as messengers uh jace says
[02:50:24] our uncle calls us strongs but when our uncle he means agon the second who was just crowned
[02:50:31] uh the usurper our uncle calls us strong but when the lord see us on dragonback they will
[02:50:38] know that for a lie only targaryens ride dragons mushroom says that core lease insisted that the
[02:50:47] three boys were valarians quote yet he smiled as he said it with pride in his voice and even
[02:50:55] young joffrey volunteered to ride his dragon tyraxies to join his brothers but rinera said no
[02:51:02] oh poor joffrey and by the way it's still a baby i know baby boy um yeah in the in the book the must
[02:51:11] not be meeting in the room with the painted table because when daemon suggests that they need to
[02:51:16] take heron hall he shows them a map the text says he shows them a map so they're not in the
[02:51:20] painted table room that painted table so much i need it i need it so bad oh my gosh yeah who's
[02:51:28] who who can we get to commission that and how much is that i can't even believe that that table turned
[02:51:33] on this entire time and we didn't know who who didn't tell stanice and no one told danie so
[02:51:42] when that went up my husband and i were like wow like at the same time and our kids because
[02:51:48] we live in a small camper right our kids are behind the door they go whoop was your dragon what
[02:51:53] was it the table just as cool that was so cool when it and yeah it was very cool candles i know
[02:52:03] and slid them under the table and i was just like oh i can't speak amazing
[02:52:11] so they hold a coronation the next day and daemon crowns rinera same as he does in the show
[02:52:17] and he takes the title protector of the realm in the show he gives that title to rinera
[02:52:23] and rinera names jace prince of dragon stone and heir to the iron throne her first act as queen is
[02:52:29] to declare serato and queen allison to traitors and rebels as for agon the elder and helena
[02:52:38] rinera declares that they've been led astray by the council of evil men and if they come to
[02:52:43] dragon stone and bend the knee she'll forgive them quote for they are my own blood of my own blood
[02:52:49] and no man or woman is as accursed as the kin slayer very important point that she's making there
[02:52:58] then when agon the second hears about rinera's coronation he declares written rinera and daemon
[02:53:03] guilty of high trees and then he says he wants them dead but cooler heads on the green council
[02:53:10] advised aparle agon refused until allison and helena talk him into it helena is a member of the green
[02:53:18] council so i think that's interesting um but they don't a very different helena but they do not send
[02:53:27] otto otto high tower they send grand maester or while uh accompanied by among others ser aric
[02:53:34] with an a and the offer that he brings is the same as in the show pretty much word for word
[02:53:41] rinera's reply is also the same um and then after rinera's reply or while either gives
[02:53:49] a learned dis disputation on and all law or he pissed his ropes depending on which source you
[02:53:57] believe i don't know if syrax is sitting there behind i might be pissing my ribs
[02:54:05] either way uh rinera took his grand maester's chain from him and gave it to her maester gerardus
[02:54:11] and then she told the envoys tell my half brother that i will have my throne or i will have his head
[02:54:17] so what they do in the show instead is have her take otto high tower's hand of the king
[02:54:22] pin and and toss it away um instead of taking the maester's change and giving it to her maester
[02:54:31] that gave me um really big taryon and denaris vibes in the final episode of season eight
[02:54:38] except you know it was him that took off his own pin and threw it to the side but just the
[02:54:44] volatility volatility i can't say volatility thank you i'm really i'm really smart i promise um
[02:54:53] um when she takes when it the two scenes just seemed very parallel and similar in in
[02:55:01] yes they do yeah so eric and arick are standing on that bridge on opposite sides and we're told
[02:55:11] that long after the dance of the dragons was done a singer from tarth composed a ballad called
[02:55:17] farewell my brother about the last meeting between arick and eric in the song each brother tries to
[02:55:24] persuade the other to change sides failing they exchange declarations of love and part
[02:55:30] knowing when next they meet it will be as enemies so here's the point where there's a big change
[02:55:43] from the book because they skip over a bunch of events that are gonna happen in season two
[02:55:50] in order to end with the dragon fight which i think was absolutely the right choice for where to end
[02:55:56] this season um do we want to go over what happened in between or do we want to just save
[02:56:02] no not no no no no not not in not in this section until not before the annoying alarm
[02:56:10] because there's super lots of spoilers there um so quote the tragedy that befell luceres valerian
[02:56:18] at storms end was never planned on this all sources agree and many still hoped that the
[02:56:25] question of succession might be resolved peacefully the stranger had other plans and remember the
[02:56:32] stranger is the god of death in the faith of the seven yes so the way that this plays out
[02:56:40] in the book is is quite different from how it plays out in the show um so lord boros baratheon
[02:56:48] is the son of the lord the prior prior lord baratheon who had voted for reynice in the
[02:56:55] council of 101 um and when amon was dispatched to woo one of his daughters he didn't know what
[02:57:03] kind of reception he would get since boros was known as quote the wind that rages and howls
[02:57:09] and blows this way and that so um uh amon gets a fine reception and uh they uh have feasts and hunts
[02:57:26] and and jousting so amon was there for a while boros is willing to entertain his suit and tells
[02:57:33] him to choose whichever of his four daughters that amon prefers and lord boros says casse
[02:57:40] oldest she'll be the first to flower but floris is prettier and if it's a clever wife you want
[02:57:46] there's maris um he says that reynirah should not take house baratheon support for granted
[02:57:54] that he quote had nothing against women and quote but if he ever had a son storms end would pass
[02:57:59] to him rather than to his daughters so why should the iron throne be any different um and
[02:58:06] lord boros is just disgustingly patronizing he says when reynirah learns that she's um lost the
[02:58:14] baratheon support he would tell her himself that she should bow down to her brother that quote his
[02:58:20] own girls would fight with each other sometimes the way girls do but he saw it to that they always
[02:58:26] made peace afterward why would you yuck anybody who rides a dragon with that kind of disrespect
[02:58:33] why no i know i know freaking disrespectful yeah tell that don't tell that to reynirah tell it to
[02:58:39] her dragon i would never say and if somebody had control over a huge dragon i'd be like oh you're
[02:58:46] cool man you're the coolest person i've ever met well this is how agon kind of that's right
[02:58:54] yes that's right so there's no record of which daughter amon chose except that it was not maris
[02:59:01] um and so when luke arrives in a storm just like in the show vegar is the first to sense his coming
[02:59:08] she struck terror into the guards on the battlements when she woke with a sudden roar that shook the
[02:59:12] very foundations of the castle the roar scared erracks but luke forced him down to land
[02:59:20] when luke walks into the great hall amon says quote look at this sad little creature my lord
[02:59:27] little luke strong the bastard you are wet bastard is it raining or did you piss yourself in fear
[02:59:34] end quote luke ignores amon only talks to lord boros saying he has a message from his mother the
[02:59:41] queen amon says you mean the horror of dragon stone and he tries to snatch the letter from luke
[02:59:48] but lord boros commands his knights to intervene and bring him the letter then same as in the
[02:59:54] show um he has his maester read the letter because he can't read and he asks luke which of
[03:00:01] his daughters he will choose to marry luke says he's betrothed same as in the show and he starts
[03:00:07] to leave and amon rips off his eyepatch to reveal the sapphire they did the sapphire
[03:00:15] yes that looks so cool it was great but it was so cool it was over the top but it's from
[03:00:22] the books right so it's like it's not like it was like totally from the book no yeah it looked good
[03:00:29] yep yeah it did yeah i'm so i wish amon was on our side we'd get that i know i really do i like i like
[03:00:37] amon i know i'm not supposed to i like amon i like show amon way more than i like book amon
[03:00:46] that that asshole you know he in the book you know i could not get on his side at all but uh no
[03:00:55] show side i'm you know it makes you feel just it makes you feel things at least for me same with
[03:01:00] alicent but uh yeah book amon can yeah fall off it so cliff yep yep so then amon demands that luke
[03:01:11] put out one of his own eyes and lord boros says no no no fighting under my roof and yeah his guards
[03:01:18] escort luke out to the was dragon and luke takes off and here's where the book in the show really
[03:01:25] diverge um in the book um the line is quote and there it might have ended but for the girl maris
[03:01:35] end quote she was angry at amon for choosing one of her prettier sisters over her uh and she says
[03:01:43] to amon was it one of your eyes he took or one of your balls i am so glad excuse me i'm so glad
[03:01:52] you chose my sister i want a husband with all of his parts and so that drives amon then to go
[03:01:59] after luke so the book those green leaning men who wrote it are blaming a woman for what amon does
[03:02:11] i'm so glad that they left that out of the show yeah they left out boros's line too about
[03:02:19] because he did say not not under my roof you know i'll have no fighting under my roof so that was
[03:02:24] there but he did leave out the part um or they left out the part in the show where he says whatever
[03:02:30] you do outside of that's right it's none of my business yeah none of my business yeah but he was
[03:02:36] right because you know you're supposed to have protection especially like as a messenger or a
[03:02:41] guest you have i mean we saw that in game of thrones too that's something that's why like
[03:02:45] longer fray spoiler alert the red wedding okay you know yeah there was so many you're supposed
[03:02:50] to have protections so technicality luke is not actually entitled to guest right there
[03:02:56] because he didn't have anything to eat or drink well that's true you have to break even as a
[03:03:00] messenger you have to break red it you have to yep well as he has he has like diplomatic
[03:03:06] immunity as a as a messenger and that's what boros is concerned about because he's come as
[03:03:11] an envoy and envoys are not supposed to be harmed but he doesn't technically have guest right
[03:03:17] so in right yeah when um makes sense in the original game of thrones book and i think in the show too
[03:03:25] when um uh they they go to the phrase to negotiate getting across the twins in the first place
[03:03:35] katlin it says over and over to um rob make sure that they give you a bread and salt or
[03:03:45] bread and salt right make sure that you take a bite before we start talking because that's what
[03:03:51] ensures guest right yeah right um so in the book there is no description of the fight between
[03:04:01] vegar and erak's um because there's no point of view it can be told from right so the watchers on
[03:04:09] the wall saw a blast of flame and they saw the dragons locked together vegar was five times the size
[03:04:18] of erak's and vegar is described as the hardened survivor of a hundred battles but everything
[03:04:28] about the dragons not obeying the writers that is an invention of the show and one of the things
[03:04:35] that ryan condell said in the hbo podcast is that dragons quote aren't just b 52s they're living gods
[03:04:44] that we're in control of to a degree and that that goes back to what visceri said at the beginning
[03:04:51] of the show the idea that we can control dragons is an illusion so they set that up way back
[03:04:58] at the beginning of the season absolutely it makes so much sense
[03:05:04] i wasn't sure at first um you know and i know the internet went bananas so many people book readers
[03:05:13] having some serious issues with that that's not how it's supposed to go but who says we don't know
[03:05:20] who do you oh my gosh we don't know the fears my husband we don't my husband was telling me because
[03:05:24] he was looking online before i think it was before we watched the episode but he wasn't reading and he
[03:05:29] said so it seems that everybody thinks that the finale is just like the finale of season eight
[03:05:34] of game of thrones i said that seems dramatic like nothing could be that bad right and um
[03:05:43] and so when we were finished watching it i'm like what what was it that was so terrible like that
[03:05:50] was pretty great so it was great um yeah i think it i think it made sense honestly i mean it took me
[03:05:57] a hot minute because the the shock you know had had to wear off i mean i i knew that's this is that
[03:06:04] event is what got spoiled for me um yeah that they said it was i mean i didn't know details i
[03:06:10] certainly didn't know like this detail of um you know it going down the exact way i just knew
[03:06:17] the event of storms end was going to be in the finale so i knew it was coming i just didn't
[03:06:21] know anything else but uh um so yeah i knew that was coming but still just to see it you know it was
[03:06:27] it was striking enough just reading it i mean so many traumatic events in the book that was
[03:06:32] definitely one of them um and it definitely left a mark on me just reading it but seeing it
[03:06:36] visually was very shocking so once once the shock wore off i think it makes sense honestly
[03:06:43] i think it makes sense too because the dragon is like your id the dragons are reacting to the
[03:06:48] riders emotions and we know they are because we see syrax screaming when raniera is screaming right
[03:06:56] yes that was a perfect kind of segway into how the that magical bond between dragons and their
[03:07:03] dragon riders and and we i mean we saw it earlier too with cracksies and daemon i commented on
[03:07:08] in that episode shoot what was it was it episode two when they were the stepstones or oh yeah man
[03:07:15] i'm so three what was it the road two or three yeah yeah yeah so when he was in battle and daemon's
[03:07:22] on cracksies uh and he gets hit by an arrow yeah you can see cracksies yes he reacts and roars
[03:07:30] like in pain that's right and so they've set this up for a long time and then they set it
[03:07:35] up here too between syrax and raniera when she's um in her her birthing and her lana and so
[03:07:44] when lana and lana agar was asking to die that's right mm-hmm so i think it makes perfect sense
[03:07:54] these two boys they're mad at each other and the dragons say okay us too us too i mean i feel
[03:08:02] like they're certainly running off the emotions and i think it's also you have to add in the element
[03:08:08] this is what i was kind of mentioning when you mentioned earlier about uh raniera and the line
[03:08:11] in the show that you know was like a mistake and i don't disagree that it could have very much
[03:08:16] been a mistake but when she's talking about their dragons not being you know like they've
[03:08:21] not seen battle but vagar has vagar and hey spoiler alert she's been in like hundreds
[03:08:28] of battles with vissenya she was queen vissenya's that's right uh dragon during the the conquest
[03:08:35] during the conquering yeah the con quest and many other battles that i won't talk about because i'm
[03:08:39] hoping we get the yeah it's wouldn't that be great in the future um that would be like a flashback
[03:08:44] season um whole season just a flashback just mm-hmm yep who have i got to pay off here to get
[03:08:51] this done well first we have to become the official hosts of the official yes that's step one
[03:08:57] that's the next step yes that's the next step and then we'll go from there um but i mean vagar i feel like
[03:09:04] and sweet baby a rax i mean that poor dragon was frightened the same as luke was right i mean
[03:09:12] he had to be peeing himself and with good reason yeah being bullied and tortured by amond being
[03:09:18] chased in this storm you know he has zero experience here and and amen doesn't either
[03:09:23] that's the problem right amen does not vagar does amen does not exactly he has zero experience
[03:09:31] writing a dragon has experienced him battle hardened as vagar and vagar i think a rax even though a rax
[03:09:38] was what zero threat to vagar i mean but i think when a rax came out of the clouds like that and
[03:09:43] shot fire vagar said game on she was in battle mode and when amen got on her back and even
[03:09:52] though he i don't i can see now the show is telling us that his intent was not to for that to be the
[03:09:59] outcome however you just strapped yourself yeah to a skyscraper size dragon that can fly and that
[03:10:07] is extremely battle hardened yep and you're playing around at a game that this dragon doesn't
[03:10:14] play and you've got her chasing a rax and a luke throughout the skies and i don't know that
[03:10:21] she knows that that's a game and when a rax comes out of the clouds and shoots fire her it's over
[03:10:29] so regardless of his intent amond is very much responsible for totally responsible for that i think
[03:10:35] it's also important to note that you know luceris left promising his mother that he was going to be
[03:10:42] a messenger and not a warrior and i think that he was trying to trying to keep hold that promise up
[03:10:52] you know keep to his promise absolutely and so you know that that poor kid he's like
[03:10:59] not to mention he probably doesn't even know what to do because we saw them fighting on the beach
[03:11:03] earlier that episode and he was he wasn't taking to the fighting very well or training wasn't
[03:11:09] going very well so there was a lot of foreshadowing and a lot of setup to this final final showdown
[03:11:15] between these two yeah there was yeah there was so the watchers on the wall see a rax fall into the
[03:11:22] bay and later his head and neck wash up on the cliffs um mushroom says that luke's corpse
[03:11:29] washed up also and that amond cut out his eyes and gave them to marris on a bed of seaweed um
[03:11:37] some say that vagar snatched luke off of air axe and swallowed him whole
[03:11:44] quote it has even been claimed that the prince survived his fall swam to safety but lost all
[03:11:49] memory of who he was spending the rest of his days as a simple minded fisherman and quote
[03:11:56] gildane the writer of fire and blood puts no stock in any of these stories except that luke
[03:12:01] died with his dragon and amond was henceforth known as amond the kin slayer uh awkward ride home huh
[03:12:11] yeah yeah so that's at the end of the first section for me okay before we move into spoilers
[03:12:22] remed do you have anything else for that's episode specific
[03:12:26] right no ma'am i feel like i'm just full of spoilers um the only thing that i have is about
[03:12:34] the banners did you discuss that i'm sorry um you can edit this out later but i oh i just i had
[03:12:41] a thing going on but i'll circle back so what i have here is ser eric mentions a three-headed
[03:12:47] green dragon banner in the books the greens use agon's personal arms as their symbol a golden
[03:12:54] three-headed dragon on black the gold coloring coming from agon's dragon sunfire the golden
[03:13:01] yes thank you yes i'm glad that was an interesting switch yes um yeah i did hear one suggestion
[03:13:09] that um perhaps the green dragon is what queen allison has taken as her symbol and that because
[03:13:18] she dispatched the envoys that maybe that's her symbol and that we'll see agon's golden dragon later
[03:13:27] because the golden dragon will come up again later in the timeline which i won't say more about
[03:13:33] since we're not in spoilers yet so we'll see next season whether they stick with the gold
[03:13:39] dragon or they are with the green dragon or the we see the gold dragon okay can't wait
[03:13:47] and then i just have one question felt like the queen's guard had two different sets of uniforms
[03:13:53] in this episode did you see that so uh i didn't really notice that in the middle of the episode
[03:14:00] when she went when ronira comes in um and daemon announces her for the first time
[03:14:07] her guard that's with her is in red and black um armor and capes in attire but before and after
[03:14:15] that scene the queen's guard had the same queen's guard or king's guard um uniforms as before so i'm
[03:14:24] wondering is this a different set of guards because that seems ridiculous that there would be two sets
[03:14:30] of guards or did they just have like a costume change for the war room only i don't know but i
[03:14:36] did notice that i don't know yeah yeah i don't know there's nothing in the book that would
[03:14:42] shed any light on that okay okay so here we go and remember the annoying alarm
[03:14:49] we're here we've come here run away run away so we're going to go into full spoilers full book
[03:14:56] full show full anything no holds barred so we'll catch you next time if you don't want to go
[03:15:02] much further but if you want to join us then let's keep going go on archmacer ready all right
[03:15:11] excited so um so when agon hears raneira's refusal of his terms after the envoys go back
[03:15:20] to king's landing he says i offered her an honorable peace and the horse spat in my face
[03:15:26] what happens next is on her own head and what happens next of course is war and that's the
[03:15:34] end of a chapter in the book and the next chapter is called the dying of the dragons a sun for a sun
[03:15:43] oh yeah yes tears um yeah so uh what we skipped over is um daemon taking heron hall without a fight
[03:15:56] they just surrender when he shows up on a dragon they've had lots of experience of dragons at
[03:16:00] heron hall we know what happens here and he meets alice rivers who is uh who will be an important
[03:16:10] character in future uh seasons and we don't hear you know much more about what's going on in her
[03:16:16] at all at this point then the story follows jayce's flight to the veil of erin where he succeeds
[03:16:24] um winning uh the lady of erin over to raneira's cause that jane then he goes to
[03:16:36] white harbor and wins over the support of the mandorleys and then he goes to winterfell
[03:16:44] where he meets kregan stark and they really hit it off and they hang out for a while there
[03:16:51] um and uh so we hear about his successes and then um there's a line in the book that says
[03:17:00] had his brothers quote with it a quote shorter safer uh flight gone well much bloodshed and
[03:17:09] grief might well have been averted so in the show the flight is mentioned as being short
[03:17:15] but it's it isn't referred as being shorter and safer but that's definitely called out in the book
[03:17:20] that his he's given the assignment that is seemingly shorter and safer um and then then we have the
[03:17:30] story of what happens to luke and if aamond expected a hero's welcome he didn't get it
[03:17:36] um allison cried out mother have mercy on us all when she heard what he'd done and auto said
[03:17:44] you only lost one eye how could you be so blind
[03:17:50] i'm very curious how they're going to handle that because um will will he show up and say
[03:17:59] what really happened and then it's between auto allison and the rest of the green council
[03:18:04] to then decide to just say take the shame of him being a kin slayer or versus um hey he just
[03:18:13] can't control his dragon because politically it's not a good move to say he can't control his dragon
[03:18:19] right they're they're gonna they're fighting to keep the throne and to keep agon on the throne
[03:18:24] and and have you know the right on their side yeah and then him being a kin slayer certainly
[03:18:30] does kind of strike fear into people so wouldn't it make sense for them or do you think that maybe
[03:18:36] aamond will just show up himself and just say yep this is how i went down i i killed him
[03:18:42] you know without really confessing that he didn't intend for it to happen i'm curious what he'll
[03:18:47] yeah well play out um uh agon agon the second says to uh it throws him a feast and announced
[03:19:00] announces that aamond had made a good beginning um so agon is all in favor of this kin slaying
[03:19:09] of course agon is an idiot yeah it's a plot uh but and then um
[03:19:21] when the news gets to daemon at heron hall he sends a raven to dragon stone with this message
[03:19:29] an eye for an eye a son for a son luceris will be avenged oh sorry luceris shall be avenged
[03:19:36] yeah and so that sets up blood and cheese blood and cheese which we will be seeing in season two
[03:19:49] i think i think how much second third episode how that's really gonna go down until
[03:19:54] i know because it's brutal in the books it's totally brutal i think they're gonna do it
[03:20:02] oh go on woof oh boy i don't know oh man that's you know they've done i think a really good job
[03:20:10] i know that they have shown brutality so far in this season but i think they've also done a good job
[03:20:15] of expressing the brutality without having to show certain things so i'm wondering if they're going
[03:20:21] to find a balance i don't think they'll i don't think that they will show us uh the child
[03:20:26] actually being killed i think that they will show it to us on helena's face probably yeah
[03:20:33] that they've done a good job of this season and i feel they'll probably carry it on into season two
[03:20:39] of the nonverbal mm-hmm you know like you don't even need the words or dialogue you just people's
[03:20:45] expressions because everyone does such a fantastic job the actors are also great uh yeah i i i think
[03:20:52] they'll do it now if will it be exactly as it is in the books again i think everything's in
[03:20:58] question now because so many things have changed um that that we thought we knew but uh i definitely
[03:21:04] think it's gonna happen yeah i think it has to people aren't ready yeah i'm not ready people yeah
[03:21:12] i know what's gonna happen and i'm not ready yeah i knew this was gonna happen and i wasn't
[03:21:15] ready right i'm gonna be one of those things where there's a lot different people that have
[03:21:18] read the books record people that haven't read the books watching watching this like the red wedding
[03:21:23] you know yeah it's like the red wedding is gonna become like that viral thing i totally plan on doing it
[03:21:31] yeah i'll have to do it to my kiddo yeah she hasn't read the book so i'll be like
[03:21:36] yeah if you haven't got the books and you're still listening please read the books over
[03:21:40] over the course of this long hiatus like just get prepared next two years just do it all right
[03:21:46] listen to it read it yeah do it mm-hmm uh yeah i i do think that blood and cheese is going to be
[03:21:54] the red wedding of house of the dragon i don't see how it can't how yeah cannot be um so um
[03:22:04] gildane says with luceris's death the war of ravens and envoys and marriage packs came to an end
[03:22:12] and the war of fire and blood began in earnest also known as season two
[03:22:23] so much still to cover and but i think that this was a good choice of where they left it
[03:22:30] in this finale i agree i really think so there is one thing that i'm really curious about where
[03:22:36] they're gonna go uh when they were in the council scene uh talking about the unclaimed dragons they
[03:22:45] cut to reina's face and she had an expression on her face like unclaimed dragons maybe i'll go get one
[03:22:53] which is not what happens in the book and i'm just wondering if they're gonna make that major
[03:22:57] change and have her go claim one of the unclaimed dragons and i was trying to figure out how
[03:23:04] could they do that without messing around with the events too much because what happens is
[03:23:10] adam valerian who is corelease's bastard son who he claims is
[03:23:16] lain or his bastard son claims sea smoke um oulf the white who is a dragon seed you know somebody
[03:23:23] with how targaryen blood claims silverwing and uh hue hammer another dragon seed claims vermax and
[03:23:34] then nettles claims uh sheepstealer you can't change nettles claiming steeps sheepstealer because
[03:23:40] she has an important part later um i really really don't want them to to change adam valerian
[03:23:49] claiming sea smoke the sea smoke dilemma but you don't really need both oulf the white and
[03:23:55] hue hammer i think you could take one of them out and have reina claim one of those dragons now
[03:24:02] reina does get a dragon later she could claim vermouth or well she could claim vermouth or maybe
[03:24:07] and i'm just talking else thinking out and they showed us vermouth or right they showed us reina
[03:24:13] and vermouth or out of all the unclaimed dragons we saw so maybe what it is is that as like a sorry we
[03:24:21] didn't show leina claiming vagar we're gonna watch brilliant right brilliant i i think they're gonna
[03:24:30] do it i think they're gonna do it can we please yeah i mean the this the scene with amond
[03:24:37] the little shit and vagar was amazing because we've never gotten to see that before yeah but i was
[03:24:44] really upset that we didn't and i i get it didn't matter to the story we didn't have to see it but
[03:24:50] oh i feel like it was such a missed opportunity not to see uh leina uh bond with yeah vagar and
[03:24:56] claim her uh so that would be fantastic to them pass that to her daughter and if she claimed
[03:25:02] vermouth or because vermouth or is next to vagar the oldest oldest largest next to vagar
[03:25:10] for a month or during the dance of that would be out hundred years old that's right yeah so yeah
[03:25:16] and we're talking about baila here right reina the young baila already has a dragon yeah so and
[03:25:23] she's going to be grieving the loss of her betrothed as well i mean it could be that's right
[03:25:28] a most unimpactful scene if they do oh my gosh that's right that's true and one of the things i've
[03:25:33] loved is how they've shown that um uh jace and baila and luke and reina are really tight with each
[03:25:42] other yes yeah you can really see that in this episode and they all really enjoy each other
[03:25:47] and they look very excited to be marrying one another you know it's it's i agree it's very
[03:25:53] sweet so you're right reina reina is actually going to be grieving vermouth or is there we've
[03:26:01] seen vermouth or so maybe she's gonna go get and she's gonna remember the fact that her sister
[03:26:06] was denied the opportunity to claim vagar that's right she's gonna remember so in the right
[03:26:13] in the book reina is sent off to the veil for safekeeping and she does eventually hatch a dragon
[03:26:19] and eventually become a dragon rider but not yet but yeah they could change it be fun
[03:26:30] it'd be fun i would i'd be okay with that yeah so i know you have a hard stop and i do coming up so
[03:26:40] and that was the end of what i have to say perfect that was everything it's perfect well if that is
[03:26:46] all that we have for this i know that um we still need to discuss it the three of us but um i'd
[03:26:52] like to do a uh season overview in the coming weeks i think all three of us need a little bit of a break
[03:27:01] so yes you know we need to recover we'll all come back to this in a few weeks once we've had time
[03:27:08] to process and relax our brains a little bit and really just dig into the season as a whole
[03:27:14] and the book as a whole and um go from there so with this stopping point i just want to thank
[03:27:20] archmacer renny for every single week just bringing it 110 percent your knowledge is so
[03:27:28] appreciated by us and by every single listener you are permanent fixture on uh dragon cast and we
[03:27:36] just appreciate you and are grateful for you every single week thank you so much for everything this
[03:27:41] season i really really we really appreciate it yes thank you thank you so much renny i can't say
[03:27:48] enough how grateful i am for the time that you've spent and put into talking with us every week i know
[03:27:55] it's i know it's not easy to do putting all that together so thank you so much thank you for including
[03:28:04] me on dragon cast it's it's been great it's really enhanced my enjoyment of the show this season
[03:28:12] as well awesome awesome awesome that's awesome okay well with that we're gonna turn it back over to
[03:28:18] the rest of the episode i'm off on my dragon bye
[03:28:26] well next up on house of the dragon because guess what there is a next up
[03:28:33] a little bit sooner than what you probably think so we are done with season one for now
[03:28:42] we are going to take at least like a two week break to process and catch our breath
[03:28:50] but our next episode will be a season overview so hopefully we're going to get
[03:28:57] some of our favorites to come and join us for the discussion we will post a feedback
[03:29:02] opportunity where you can contribute um you know we've loved your feedback over this entire season
[03:29:08] thank you so much please um when you do see that feedback for the season overview um you know
[03:29:15] rima and archmage to renny and i were talking earlier about the fact that we just want to
[03:29:19] like not now but soon binge the entire season just watch it start to finish and then
[03:29:28] really kind of dig into the overview of the entire season and themes and characters and
[03:29:33] whatnot so we'd love for you to be a part of it and you can contribute uh to that episode in one of
[03:29:40] these ways you can leave feedback at our podcast to the facebook page where we do post feedback
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[03:29:53] an email um at dragoncastica at gmail.com we would love if you go leave us a review and subscribe
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[03:30:09] doing that favor for us thank you so much um for doing that you're helping us be found when
[03:30:14] folks are in search of a podcast uh campaign into the show so thank you for that um and
[03:30:21] you can find dragoncast and a bunch of other great podcasts so many great podcasts right now at
[03:30:26] podcastica.com yes there are i think handmaid's tail is still going yes yes indeed um you have
[03:30:37] started the midnight club on strange indeed yes as walking dead is finishing up their final
[03:30:43] season for walking dead cast uh she-holk just wrapped up but if you're just getting into
[03:30:48] that show you can go back and listen to um those episodes and rings of power um anwin and pennie
[03:30:56] bringing it with um wow with their amazing coverage with their coverage of yeah with their
[03:31:02] coverage of rings of power and you have a treat in anwin if you haven't um listened yet that girl
[03:31:08] she knows her talking so but that is there that's that's our show that's the end we've
[03:31:17] we've completed the show thank you for listening everybody thanks for still being with us after
[03:31:23] off these hours yes all these hours and hours of this podcast we're truly grateful um until next time
[03:31:33] i'm marima i'm christin
[03:31:34] dracarys