11: "The Black Queen" (S1E10)

[00:00:00] Hey everybody, I'm Kristen. I'm Reema. And this is Dragon Cast, podcast dedicated to

[00:00:21] the House of the Dragon. This week we are covering the season one finale titled The Black Queen

[00:00:32] finale. So sad. So weird to say. Brief synopsis of the episode from HBO. While

[00:00:40] mourning a tragic loss, Raniera tries to hold the realm together and Damon prepares for war.

[00:00:48] I love these synopsis. Very generic for the events of the episode. Yeah, this was

[00:00:57] an impact episode. So much so. So much to talk about. So many important events,

[00:01:05] very impactful events that definitely propel things forward. Okay, so let's go in first with

[00:01:15] how did you like this episode? I really liked the episode. Well, considering the events anyway,

[00:01:24] there were definitely some sad events. But just overall, I thought they did a fantastic job

[00:01:30] with the episode. I thought it was really well done, really well acted, cinematography,

[00:01:36] everything was absolutely amazing. And clearly there was some consensus there because I read

[00:01:43] that this episode saw 9.3 million viewers, which was crazy. Yeah, they said this was

[00:01:50] the biggest HBO season finale since Game of Thrones. So amazing job. So clearly a lot of

[00:01:57] other people tuned in and I think probably felt the same. A lot of differing opinions I'm hearing

[00:02:03] online, which I'm sure we'll talk about, but I loved it. And I'm excited to talk about it.

[00:02:08] What did you think? Same. Same, same across the board. I said earlier or I think I said

[00:02:18] it during book talk and we record book talk before we do this. But I found myself a lot more

[00:02:25] emotional the second time around than the first time around. I think because I was just

[00:02:33] like trying to keep up with the story and I was just so enraptured in what was going on and

[00:02:39] how it was going to go down. And then as somebody who is familiar with the books,

[00:02:43] I was trying to figure out how they were going to leave it by the end of the season and what

[00:02:49] was going to be that big moment. And wow, was it a big moment? So I was really, really pleased

[00:02:59] with the episode. I was pleased with it as a finale. I was pleased with the season as a whole.

[00:03:05] Again, I'm really, really excited to also talk about this episode.

[00:03:10] Awesome. So with that, where would you like to start?

[00:03:19] Well, so many places I feel like I could start, but I'm just going to start with first

[00:03:24] the Black Queen seems appropriate considering the title. So there's the scene,

[00:03:35] which we might talk about separately, but I'm going to just jump ahead a little bit

[00:03:39] after the birth of Reneara's child and where they're at the funeral. So

[00:03:47] when they're at the funeral of her stillborn child, this is her focus for the moment. She

[00:03:56] has just went through this traumatic birth. She has lost her child and she's also

[00:04:02] had just been given the news of her father's passing. So she's lost Viserys, she's lost her

[00:04:09] baby. This is where she's focused at the moment. And as this is happening,

[00:04:17] we get this really cool moment when Sir Eric Cargill shows up, which was really glad to see

[00:04:25] him show up after the episode that we got between him and his twin

[00:04:31] and kind of building up the tension between those two. And so he shows up and he presents

[00:04:39] the crown of her father, Viserys, who was also the crown of King Jaehaerys

[00:04:48] for those that need the reminder. And as he does, he kneels and he swears his fealty to Reneara

[00:04:57] and presents the crown. And what I love about this moment, this is my main point for bringing

[00:05:04] this up, is to point out the differences between this moment with this coronation of Reneara

[00:05:13] versus Aegon, the older's coronation. Such a difference because the people that were there

[00:05:21] at Reneara's coronation, they want to be there. They want to support her. And it was quiet,

[00:05:31] it was simplistic and it was authentic where Aegon's coronation was very different. There

[00:05:39] was a big show that was put on by Team Green for Aegon. They ushered people in off the streets.

[00:05:47] They're just pushing people to the dragon pit to witness this event. They had all the pomp and

[00:05:54] circumstance of this coronation. They made a big showing with presenting him Black Fire and

[00:06:01] Aegon the Conqueror's crown crowning him. He was, I don't know if they said the word blessed,

[00:06:07] but basically anointed, maybe was anointed by the septon. Showing all of these things,

[00:06:12] like he's the true monarch, right? They had to do all of these things to put up this show.

[00:06:21] And trying to essentially legitimize his claim to the throne with this whole showing that

[00:06:26] they did. I thought that this was a really great opposition, the scene with Reneara

[00:06:32] in this coronation with Daemon then placing the crown on her head and announcing her as the queen.

[00:06:42] So I think that the opposition to those two scenes and that juxtaposition, I thought was really

[00:06:47] interesting because the people that were there with Reneara are the people that really support

[00:06:52] her and want to be there in such a big difference. So I love that moment.

[00:06:59] That was so great that you pointed that out because I did not put that together and I think

[00:07:04] that's really beautiful that you mentioned that everybody that was there wanted to be there.

[00:07:10] They were there to support her in her loss. So of course they're there to support her

[00:07:16] in her queenship, right? And it was really beautiful that what you said that Daemon crowned

[00:07:25] her just like Daemon helped Viserys up those stairs a few episodes ago. And when it's time for

[00:07:33] Daemon to show support and love, he shows up. Like he is a crazy son of a bitch, but he shows up

[00:07:39] for his people. Yes, he does. He does have a strong family belief. Yeah.

[00:07:47] Yeah. So I totally agree with you there and it's interesting to me just to draw maybe one small

[00:07:57] similarity was that both Aegon and Reneara in the moment that they were crowned were reluctant

[00:08:04] and hesitant in that moment because it was the last thing that Reneara was actually thinking

[00:08:11] about in that moment as she was bearing their daughter. And for Aegon he didn't think that

[00:08:16] he was worthy of or should be worthy of being crowned. And both of them treated their acceptance as

[00:08:28] king and queen respectively very differently, right? Aegon started to get real cocky and

[00:08:36] the only thing he didn't do was pretend to fight an air battle with his sword.

[00:08:40] Right. He's like they like me, they really like me.

[00:08:44] All right. Exactly.

[00:08:45] He was his Sally Field moment. Sorry if that ages anybody.

[00:08:55] But with Reneara, she looked how's that truly humbled by the moment in her darkest moment,

[00:09:06] probably so far to see not only people accepting her as queen but kneeling, bending the knee.

[00:09:16] And they did it willingly. They didn't do it because they feared what was going to happen

[00:09:23] if they didn't do it. I mean, Daemon threatened the Kingsguard.

[00:09:31] But there was no dragon looming over these people, right?

[00:09:37] So yeah, I totally appreciate that. That's a great point.

[00:09:43] Thanks. What about you?

[00:09:44] What else do you have for the Black Queen anything?

[00:09:47] Well, obviously I'm going to talk more about Reneara. But I just I liked that moment because

[00:09:54] I've made no secret who I support in this story and I just thought that it was such a beautiful-

[00:10:00] Right. You're a total Alice anapologist.

[00:10:05] But when Daemon was very gently when he knelt and bowed his head and said,

[00:10:13] my queen, I totally even without knowing he was going to say that I was like, my queen.

[00:10:18] I'm right or die for Reneara all the way.

[00:10:20] He's like, I bend the knee too.

[00:10:22] Yeah, I felt like I was reciting those words along with Sir Eric too.

[00:10:27] Like, I am swearing my fealty to you. I will swear my sword to you.

[00:10:32] I would anything for Reneara. I'm all about her especially when we see the events of this episode

[00:10:39] and what she's gone through. But I just thought this was just a beautiful moment,

[00:10:43] this moment when she's actually coronated and it's official that she was made queen.

[00:10:50] So I'll have more to say, but there's just a specific moment that was my main point first.

[00:10:55] I love it. Just as an aside before I also get into Reneara a little bit,

[00:11:00] I'm just going to piggyback on you. But when we were watching it the first time,

[00:11:04] Dave actually asked and I think he's right, but maybe I don't know.

[00:11:11] Was that the first time that we actually heard the Kingsguard oath being said?

[00:11:18] Because I don't think that we've heard it yet.

[00:11:20] In House of the Dragon?

[00:11:22] No, in all.

[00:11:24] Really have we not at all even in Game of Thrones?

[00:11:28] We only heard in Game of Thrones, we only heard

[00:11:32] we only heard like Rien swearing allegiance to Sansa or the wall,

[00:11:39] the Night's Watch, they did their oath a few times.

[00:11:45] Right? But I don't think that we've ever heard Kingsguard take as oath until this episode.

[00:11:52] And if I'm wrong, please let me know.

[00:11:55] I don't remember. I mean, you could be right. I just, gosh, all the seasons of Game of

[00:12:00] Thrones and the finale aired what three years ago. So add those years to it.

[00:12:04] And I haven't done a rewatch since then because my heart can't take it at the moment.

[00:12:08] But I don't know. I don't doubt Dave's wisdom with that.

[00:12:15] I would feel he's probably right, but it was great.

[00:12:19] Yeah, it was awesome. And I loved it that it was Eric that did it.

[00:12:23] And he did it with the crown in his hand if I'm not mistaken.

[00:12:27] He did. He was holding it. He was on his knees and he was like holding it up

[00:12:32] and saying his oath.

[00:12:33] Listen, Sarah Eric, you good people. You good job.

[00:12:39] Agreed.

[00:12:40] You a good job.

[00:12:43] Anyway, so I'm going to piggyback on Raniyra. I'm going to talk about this birth scene because

[00:12:52] like we've seen her give birth twice now that we've seen all the women give birth

[00:12:59] throughout the entire season.

[00:13:01] No, we haven't. We haven't seen Allison.

[00:13:03] We didn't see Allison.

[00:13:04] No, it's fine.

[00:13:04] Yeah.

[00:13:05] Right. But Raniyra giving birth both times, right? She's...

[00:13:11] We already know how strong she is. We knew how strong she was the first time we saw her

[00:13:16] give birth when she got dressed after, you know, well still giving birth to the afterbirth,

[00:13:23] right? To go and see the queen as the queen commanded, right? And she's like,

[00:13:28] nope, we're going to get this done. We're going to go because I'm not going to start a fight right now.

[00:13:32] And we fast forward to this birth. Her father is dead. She just learned that. Her brother,

[00:13:40] her half-brother has taken her crown. She's not supposed to be in labor right now.

[00:13:46] He's got all these people whispering around her. I loved the fact that she went straight

[00:13:50] up to the maester and said, yeah, man, I know what the fuck is happening right now.

[00:13:54] I know that this is not supposed to happen right now. I just thought that that was

[00:13:58] fan-tastic. I was like, girl, if I could have five of you right now, I would.

[00:14:03] I mean... But she did it alone and she wanted to do it alone. Like she didn't want anybody to

[00:14:10] touch her. She wanted... It's like she needed to feel that pain because the pain of losing

[00:14:15] her father and losing the crown just was so much that some people just need to feel that pain.

[00:14:22] And she looks to me like somebody that needs to feel physical pain in order to process

[00:14:29] things, in order to process her emotions. I know that's that blood of the dragon thing.

[00:14:36] I loved the fact that Syrax was blended in with the birthing scene that you could tell that

[00:14:43] Syrax was also feeling the pain and maybe that was as Yule mentioned later in book talk,

[00:14:51] maybe that was Syrax letting loose of some eggs at the same time. Maybe not, who knows, right?

[00:14:59] Maybe Syrax was just like, my mistress, oh, well.

[00:15:05] And then I love the fact that she calls in just Saris and tells him, listen,

[00:15:17] I don't want anything to be done while I'm doing this. And you're the heir to the throne

[00:15:22] and you need to make sure that this happens, right? And so... And she's been preparing

[00:15:29] Jace all this time to come up and be a royal and be a king. And he takes it very solemnly.

[00:15:38] And like she doesn't forget to be a mother. She doesn't forget to be a ruler

[00:15:43] while she's in labor. And for anybody that's been in labor, it's easy to forget a lot of things

[00:15:49] while you're in labor. It's easy to forget that you love your husband in that moment

[00:15:53] or your partner. So I just really, really... I feel like that was a very good representation

[00:16:03] of birth again. I don't know if there's women that are writing these scenes, these specific

[00:16:08] scenes, but I have felt the pain of every single one of these births.

[00:16:14] It's very relatable. I've only given birth once, so I only have the one time to fall back on

[00:16:21] my previous experience, but it was drug-free, not by choice. So it wasn't a natural child

[00:16:29] birth. So... You know... So bad?

[00:16:32] It's... It was the worst thing ever. I mean, rewarding in the end obviously,

[00:16:37] and I would do it a hundred times over for that end result for my daughter. But yeah,

[00:16:43] and I'm going to tell you 20 plus years later, it has not been forgotten. They always say,

[00:16:48] oh, you forget. No, no you don't. Anyway, so it is kind of relatable to know because,

[00:16:54] I mean, they didn't have any drugs to give you if you were in birth in those times. It was all

[00:17:01] natural. So definitely watching when we saw Lena struggle in her childbirth. Now, of course,

[00:17:07] that had a tragic end. And then, Reneera and her birthing, it seemed very real,

[00:17:16] whether or not they have also in their personal lives experienced that or if they're just

[00:17:21] having to draw on someone else's experiences or they're just acting their hearts out.

[00:17:28] I thought was very real. And I thought it was... I liked it also that they're not just lying in

[00:17:32] their beds and birthing because babies aren't always born when you're on your back.

[00:17:39] You know, it's... I mean, sometimes, yeah, that happens a lot. But seeing Reneera walking

[00:17:44] around and kind of walking it out and she's wanting to very much be in control. I also think,

[00:17:51] you know, you mentioned the feelings that she's going through and needing to feel that pain.

[00:17:55] I don't disagree with that, but I also think she's angry at the fact that she's

[00:18:01] kind of bound and restricted by her female body and that's keeping her from

[00:18:09] what's going on in basically at the painted table. I don't know if that's a specific room.

[00:18:15] I don't know what to call that room, but where they're all...

[00:18:17] They're called it a war room?

[00:18:19] That would make sense, right? Their planning strategy.

[00:18:22] Her lack of a better term yet, right?

[00:18:24] Yeah, but that's where she should be, right? But she can't. She's, you know,

[00:18:30] doing what her mother told her was this... That's where women fight their battles.

[00:18:38] And I think that was interesting where they kept having the cut scenes between Damon and the rest

[00:18:44] of the Black Council. You know, they're strategizing and they're talking this out and he's already making

[00:18:49] plans, right? And Reneera can't be there because she has to do this. Like, I have to do this.

[00:18:54] And I think in a way she's kind of angry about that, that she's kind of bound to her

[00:18:59] womanly body in this moment instead of being there. And I think it was good for her to

[00:19:04] call Jace and be like, you know, I can't be there to say no to these things or to keep

[00:19:09] things in check. You have to go do that.

[00:19:12] It also goes to show that she knew her husband in this moment.

[00:19:16] She knew exactly what was going to happen. And she's like, I need a cooler head in this moment

[00:19:22] right now.

[00:19:23] Yeah, Damon's ready to go chop some heads.

[00:19:25] Right. And I know that Damon's mad, especially since, you know, he's

[00:19:32] he's pretty much told himself that his brother's been killed, not that his brother has died,

[00:19:37] right? And yeah, he's out for blood. So, and then there was the birth itself, right?

[00:19:47] You know, tragic.

[00:19:49] For anybody that has had any experience with a stillborn child or a miscarriage

[00:19:56] or or anything to this degree, the pain of this moment is very, very real. And

[00:20:06] I think for an actor who I'm pretty sure they do not have any children

[00:20:15] to portray this as beautifully as they did.

[00:20:18] Oh my gosh, they did fantastic.

[00:20:21] Emma Darcy acted the show.

[00:20:23] And just as an aside, like this week is the anniversary of my sister's death and my nephew's

[00:20:29] death and she died in childbirth. So it hit me a little raw this week.

[00:20:34] No, no, no, that's fine. I'm just saying like, as somebody who

[00:20:39] I didn't experience it myself, however, I watched my sister experience it, right?

[00:20:43] I, you know, you see what that does to a mother, you know, and the grace that Reneara had.

[00:20:53] I mean, she wrapped her baby and prepared her baby for

[00:20:59] her funeral herself.

[00:21:01] She was the only one that allowed her to touch her.

[00:21:05] Right. You know, when Damon came in to check on her, she's still holding Visenya.

[00:21:13] You know, and I, and we've discussed a little bit on the deformity of Visenya and I'm not,

[00:21:20] we're not really sure, right? Maybe there was a tail, maybe there wasn't. We did see one foot.

[00:21:26] The head was definitely deformed.

[00:21:28] But you know, she's cradling this baby and nobody, nobody can get near her. And she's just so

[00:21:37] hyper focused and Damon walks in and sees that he doesn't even feel comfortable approaching her.

[00:21:42] And he's lost his own child as well in this moment, right? And they go to grieve separately,

[00:21:48] which is so common for parents that lose a child, so common.

[00:21:55] You know, I watched my parents grieve separately and it tears marriages apart.

[00:22:01] So you know, when I see those following scenes where they're both kind of having this silent

[00:22:05] power struggle over a painted table, I always, I also see them as grieving parents, right?

[00:22:10] That are trying to focus all of their grief into this one event in the best way they know how.

[00:22:18] And they come at it from very different points of view, very different perspectives.

[00:22:23] You know, the male versus the female. And in this case, you know, it was kind of took an

[00:22:29] opposite turn because Reneer wanted to be the cool head and Damon wanted to kill everybody.

[00:22:35] You know, in these olden times, as we say, it's usually the women that are hysterical

[00:22:42] or they're made to be hysterical, right? Right.

[00:22:46] Right. So it's the entire scene of the birth, the funeral, the wrapping, the preparation,

[00:22:58] it was so real and I don't know if, you know, maybe people don't agree with me and that's fine.

[00:23:05] But I like especially on my second watch, like because I was alone in the dark,

[00:23:11] in the camper just like with my headphones on, just watching it. And I just, I was overcome with

[00:23:16] emotion during that entire sequence and I just thought it was handled very beautifully.

[00:23:20] I really hope that Emma Darcy gets an Emmy for her role or at least gets nominated because

[00:23:27] they did such an amazing job. I can't imagine anyone else playing Reneer at this point.

[00:23:34] Nobody, nobody. What a treasure in that actor.

[00:23:41] 100% agree with everything that you said and I agree. Now during my first watch,

[00:23:46] I definitely cried. I mean, I feel, you know, and I mean, I feel like you don't have to be a mom or

[00:23:52] a parent for that scene to move you the way that it did for that whole birthing experience

[00:23:57] and what she was going through in that moment. And then of course the aftermath and having

[00:24:01] lost the child to where she's then wrapping the child and then of course the funeral.

[00:24:07] So I feel like you don't have to have children. I'm not saying you have to have children to feel

[00:24:10] anything but it does, I think, hit you harder if you've had that, you know, if you are a parent

[00:24:17] and have had a birthing experience. I know I, it really moved me the first time and then

[00:24:22] of course again, I don't know what it is about that second watch. It hits harder. You know

[00:24:26] exactly what's going to happen but it hits harder. I cried even harder watching Reneera

[00:24:31] going through that experience and how beautifully it was handled and yeah,

[00:24:35] Emidarsi, G's, all the awards. Just take all the awards, just take them, just clear off your shelf.

[00:24:45] If the world is just, you will get all of them. Yes, very well deserved.

[00:24:51] You and Patty. Oh wow, yeah. For X and seven alone, yeah.

[00:25:02] So I think, yeah, eight. I think that that's all I have for that specific scene. I know

[00:25:08] that we're going to come back to Reneera time and time again because she's just the centerpiece

[00:25:13] of this entire episode but yeah, definitely the funeral and her crowning and definitely

[00:25:20] this sequence of her going into labor giving birth, losing her child, wrapping her child up

[00:25:29] and saying goodbye to her child while also grieving her father's death and also grieving

[00:25:34] the loss of her crown in that moment. The betrayal. I can't imagine a worse day.

[00:25:40] I mean, can she get a break? Can Reneera get a break? It's, yeah, that's the whole point

[00:25:49] of so much of this episode and again, listen to book talk if you want to hear about it,

[00:25:57] events to come and what's going to happen or read the book. It just makes sense. So it's

[00:26:08] yeah, extremely heartbreaking. I'll never get that scene out of my head though,

[00:26:12] the particular part after she's wrapped her baby and then she kneels and just, I mean,

[00:26:19] oh gosh, again so impactful and so moving and heartbreaking. She just can't catch a

[00:26:27] catch a break in this episode. And I like anybody that didn't know that was a daughter,

[00:26:32] that was her first and only daughter. They didn't talk about it. Yes. Thank you

[00:26:37] because they didn't specify but it was a girl and they named her Visenya. They didn't

[00:26:44] outright say that and I don't feel like it's spoilery to say it, but in the book they named

[00:26:49] her Visenya, which she would be named after one of Aegon's sister wives, Queen Visenya,

[00:26:55] whom I've talked about often because I also ride or die for her as well. All of her writes

[00:27:02] and wrongs. But you know, and you made a good point when you mentioned how this episode,

[00:27:09] you know we're going to talk a lot about Reneara during this episode and I think that's

[00:27:13] what was interesting about last week's episode, episode nine, that was almost like a part one

[00:27:19] because we get Allison and the Greens and then this episode we get Reneara and the team Black

[00:27:27] and we get like this other perspective. So yeah, definitely going to have a lot of

[00:27:33] Reneara talk but I like how they did that, get kind of like the two sides of

[00:27:38] you know the aftermath of Viserys's passing. Definitely. It's interesting and I don't

[00:27:46] know if you felt this way, but last week I felt the presence of Reneara and Daemon

[00:27:51] all throughout that episode and this episode I didn't care about Aegon, didn't care about

[00:27:58] Allison. Like when Otto showed up I'm like who this? Like yeah, just like didn't care.

[00:28:04] But the whole time during last week's episode I'm like you guys are in for a world of trouble.

[00:28:11] Y'all doing so many bad things right now. So many bad things. Shame on you.

[00:28:17] Decisions. Yep, shame, shame. Everyone knows your name.

[00:28:24] Where is Scepta Unella when you need her? Yes, get the ringing of the bell and the walk of shame.

[00:28:32] Yes, yes. Oh that would be great to do to Aegon.

[00:28:37] So where do you want to go next? You know I debated on when exactly during the podcast

[00:28:44] I wanted to talk about this and I was actually just going to jump into it straight away but

[00:28:49] I thought you know what I'm gonna because I've been so stoked to see Reneara you know crowned and

[00:28:54] to get to that moment I thought I'm just gonna start there but you know what I'm just

[00:28:58] I'm gonna jump in and go to my biggest point and that's the battle at Storm's End.

[00:29:04] I'm just gonna talk about it because after this it's you know let me scroll down because

[00:29:10] I'm sad too. Yeah I mean I feel like it's you know a huge point but I feel like I just have to kind

[00:29:17] of go ahead and talk about it and yeah it's in the room. It is and it's my biggest point and

[00:29:23] everything after I feel like it's probably I say this and I'm probably gonna lie out of my teeth

[00:29:26] because I talk way too much are going to be smaller points but this is definitely my biggest one

[00:29:31] because it was so freaking tragic and so I want to read a quote this is a very very small quote from

[00:29:40] George R. R. Martin and this comes straight from Fire and Blood. It says then the storms broke

[00:29:48] and the dragons danced and so we get this aftermath of what happened there at Storm's End

[00:29:58] between Boris Baratheon and our baby Luceris and Amond and it this it all gets set up

[00:30:10] as more bullying from Amond. He's picking on Luke and Luke has promised his mother that

[00:30:19] I am only a messenger I'm not gonna fight but you can tell it broke my damn heart as Amond

[00:30:27] you know he's already taken you know a verbal maybe in a more gentler way but I still feel like

[00:30:34] Boris Baratheon was pretty harsh with Luceris you know in his words but yeah you know whatever

[00:30:41] I thought he was disrespectful. I thought on descending. Yeah I was you know angry at

[00:30:50] his words and how he was treating Luke very disrespectfully and I thought you know does

[00:30:56] does an oath mean nothing to you you know your house is sworn and all you care about is furthering

[00:31:02] your your own ambitions in your house because one of your daughters you know you know he's been

[00:31:07] approached by this offer for Amond you know to be to be betrothed to one of his daughters

[00:31:14] and that of course advances his house instead of this oath that he's or at least his father

[00:31:21] and also their house you know Rainice is half Baratheon her mother was a Baratheon

[00:31:30] right so do you have no loyalty to your blood that sucks. I think he also makes the point

[00:31:39] that he didn't make that oath that his father made that oath. Right. Am I correct in that?

[00:31:47] No you are right it was his father who swore the oath to young Rainier after Viserys made her

[00:31:55] named her his heir that was and the name escapes me because geez the names I can't

[00:32:00] keep up with at all but yes it was Boris Baratheon's father who swore his fealty

[00:32:05] to young Reneera not Boris himself but still. You know if Rainie said gone instead I bet this

[00:32:15] would have had a different ending. I wonder because yeah it's you know that's how can you

[00:32:21] I don't know just yeah I really disliked that and you know as disrespectful as what he was in the

[00:32:29] show I think he was even more so in the book which I didn't like either but then we get to

[00:32:35] Amond you know as you know Luke is like okay you know got your message and he sets to leave but then

[00:32:42] Amond decides to taunt him which sets up the next events and he's pretty pissed still hanging on to

[00:32:50] their you know fight from years ago when Luke took his eye we got this awesome reveal

[00:32:57] of Amond's sapphire eye which is amazing pretty cool that was pretty cool to see that

[00:33:07] but yeah I thought dude he's a kid he's 14 and Amond I think is supposed to be between like 17

[00:33:15] and 19 something like that which might think in the book they say he's 19 I thought so

[00:33:21] I know that they've aged everyone up a little so it was hard to kind of keep track of that from the show

[00:33:31] but yeah I think he's between like at least 17 and 19 and even then he's a lot bigger too

[00:33:37] he's just in general a lot bigger and I hated that for loose I you know as a mom you know and

[00:33:44] again you don't be a mom but you know that's that's what pulls my heartstrings is when I see

[00:33:48] you know my motherly protective instincts you know and you see Luke and he's kind of grabbing his

[00:33:54] sword a little just kind of to be on the ready and he keeps kind of looking over at Amond as Boris is

[00:33:59] spouting his vulgarities and you can see he's scared he's scared of him and he should be honestly

[00:34:06] I mean Amond is being a bully and threatening him and threatening to take his eye and he's a

[00:34:11] formidable opponent absolutely we've seen Amond can fight and we have seen I think you were

[00:34:16] talking about it in book talk where we saw Jace and Luke on the beach at Dragonstone

[00:34:24] he's he's just not there as a fighter he doesn't have that skill yet and he knows that he knows

[00:34:30] that I mean I'm sure he would defend himself the best he could but clearly not an opponent for

[00:34:36] Amond and I'm thinking God you freaking bully you know to do that to this child I understand

[00:34:45] the loss of an eye and what happened is not a little thing okay but he's a he's a kid because

[00:34:51] I'm thinking God if that was my 14 year old I can't even picture my 14 year old in a situation

[00:34:56] you know like that I'm thinking that's that's a baby so you know Luke goes to leave Boris

[00:35:03] Bratheon puts an end to it because again you know it's not great it's not a great look to have

[00:35:08] guests in your home if one of your guests is killed by another guest then you know or a messenger

[00:35:16] is killed you know by a guest it's not a great look you know that's definitely frowned upon in

[00:35:23] in Westeros so he puts an end to it and allows Luke to run away and send off his message to his

[00:35:31] mother and Luke takes off he gives some calming words to Erack's you know there's a big storm

[00:35:40] it's raining lightning it's probably pretty damn scary for both the dragon and and young Luke

[00:35:51] so oh and I didn't even mention that the scene of Agar when when loose let me just backtrack

[00:35:56] for a moment the scene of Agar and the rain at the courtyard when Luke arrived wow it's like almost

[00:36:02] eclipsed the castle it's like Jurassic Park vibes man yes vagar is massive you know and I

[00:36:11] know that they show that really well in in this scene in this battle scene vagars essentially like

[00:36:18] a skyscraper on wings you know I mean that's that's how large she is the scale of that but yeah

[00:36:24] you know she's massive so that was very intimidating poor Luke he's already like oh hell

[00:36:31] you know seeing vagar and then knowing that someone's already beat him to storm's end

[00:36:38] so we get Luke Luke up in the skies him and Erack's take off and you know the poor kid

[00:36:45] is scared because when he gets back outside he doesn't see vagar you know I think they made that point

[00:36:51] to one show vagar of course for many reasons but when he gets back out there doesn't see her

[00:36:59] he's like um hmm wonder where she could be so you see you see him constantly looking over his

[00:37:06] shoulder and I'm just like oh god baby don't look back don't look back right we get this image

[00:37:13] when the light when the sky lights up with the lightning this image of vagar flying over Erack's

[00:37:20] looks like a 747 flying over a Cessna right the size difference it's so big she was so big

[00:37:32] I mean it was absolutely I mean it was beautiful I mean what a beautiful image one

[00:37:37] you know before we get to the tragic part it was just amazing to show the

[00:37:42] how large vagar really is I mean I feel like they really needed to make that point right if you

[00:37:48] didn't get it before how big she was you know you put her against this tiny little baby dragon

[00:37:55] Erack's was Luke's dragon um that he had uh you know as a baby when they give all the

[00:38:03] Targaryen babies you know their eggs and their hatched um you know in in their cradle

[00:38:08] and he in and they bond um so that's a baby dragon when you look at all the other dragons and how old

[00:38:15] the dragons are vagar's like 170 or 180 years old I think at this point crazy and Erack's has

[00:38:22] only been around for as long as what Jace has and Jace sorry Luke Luke's 14 years yeah so baby

[00:38:30] right well you saw that with the with with the way that vagar you know opened her mouth and

[00:38:38] just took care of Erack's and Husseri's like just easily like like I don't know smashing a bug yeah

[00:38:51] flicking a fly or yeah flicking a bug is essentially kind of the same uh same here

[00:39:01] um so this this was interesting uh the way that this played out um but very dangerous uh

[00:39:09] the decision Aamond made to hop on this war machine which is essentially what vagar is

[00:39:20] by taunting Luke when he comes out of the clouds and makes himself known and he's taunting him

[00:39:28] chasing him making vagar kind of you know chomp away a little at you know making little

[00:39:35] you know roars and bites here and there and scaring the crap out of poor Luke um

[00:39:42] and he almost gets he almost gets away I thought it was very clever when he decided to

[00:39:48] get down in this like little narrow section of rock on each side where vagar clearly was not going

[00:39:55] to fit um and I so badly just wanted I was like telling Luke like like you can hear me through the

[00:40:01] screen um stop there find it find a place to perch or something right I even so I showed this scene

[00:40:08] to my son because they love the dragon scenes and and before he goes down in between the mountains

[00:40:15] in between those ridges my son's like just get somewhere where that dragon oh and then

[00:40:22] then he's and then Eric swoops down and gets exactly where that and he's like okay okay all right

[00:40:28] Eric that dragon is gonna be okay as as Eric's like gets out again my son's like

[00:40:37] oh no so anyway I'm sorry so go on no it's fine oh yeah see he's smart he knows what's up

[00:40:49] um but well and I think just out of fear again inexperienced Luke is only 14 years old he's never

[00:40:57] seen a battle never been at war neither is air axe um baby dragon amen amen has not either and I think

[00:41:06] that is a really good point because and and that is in in my point that amand

[00:41:13] doesn't understand or I don't think fully respect the dragon that that he has that he has claimed

[00:41:25] um because when you know throughout this chase you know that Luke is scared to death

[00:41:32] Eric's is scared to death he's that poor baby dragon's like I got this big ass dragon on my tail

[00:41:38] you know like literally they're both scared also because of that dragon bond which we've talked

[00:41:42] about many times and we talked about it earlier in this episode talking about syrax and uh Rhaenyra

[00:41:48] and how their bond did and how she was feeling the birthing pains

[00:41:53] the the dragons can feel the emotions of their dragon rider they have a very magical bond

[00:42:00] uh so erak's is scared comes out of the clouds and little little plume of fire not it

[00:42:12] vagar probably barely felt it however

[00:42:17] vagar and I've talked about vagar multiple times um since we've been introduced to her on the show

[00:42:23] vagar is very battle hardened she was ridden by queen visenya during the uh conquest of

[00:42:31] westeros with her uh sister and agon and there were more battles after that as well so vagar is

[00:42:41] battle hardened and extremely experienced and I honestly feel that the actions that came next

[00:42:47] um were partly because of that I think I think partly feeling the feelings

[00:42:54] of what amon was feeling in that moment because he was pushing vagar to taunt

[00:43:01] erak's and luke and I don't think vagar took this as a game I think she was like oh this is

[00:43:08] this is for real we're not just out here playing a game you know that's not what vagar was conditioned

[00:43:15] for or to do and I think yeah and I think when erak's came out and you know blew that fire at her

[00:43:26] you could see that's where it turned and you could then see also amon is like you know hey no vagar

[00:43:32] know and you know luke has is also trying to get control of erak's like no no you know what are

[00:43:39] you doing um and I think that this you know because I don't know if people just assume that dragon

[00:43:47] riders have complete control over their dragons that is so false there is nowhere in the text

[00:43:53] that says you have complete control you can bond with them it's a magical bond for sure um I think

[00:44:00] there is a respect between dragon and dragon rider um for sure um but it's very clear dragons are living

[00:44:11] breathing thing they are intelligent I think there's an intelligence there there's a conscious there

[00:44:18] and they're gonna do whatever the hell that they want did we not see in game of thrones and I know

[00:44:23] it's in the books too in a song of ice and fire in the books dany doesn't always have

[00:44:29] control of her dragons either no she does not and drogon goes and you know starts killing people

[00:44:36] for meat and she and she's forced into a decision of of you know locking up the other two because

[00:44:43] you can't find drogon and she can't control drogon yeah and he almost kills her yeah right I mean

[00:44:50] I think that that's important to to bring up I think you bring up a really really excellent

[00:44:54] point dany did not denaris did not have um full control over her dragons least of all drogon and

[00:45:02] she was the one that was riding him the other two were riderless right yeah so she was bonded with

[00:45:07] drogon she was very bonded with him mm-hmm yeah regal and viscerion now I know she thought of

[00:45:16] them all as her children and I don't argue that but she was bonded with drogon and she rode

[00:45:22] drogon her other the other two dragons you know I think stuck around but they were not claimed

[00:45:28] they they were riderless it was drogon so even being bonded with drogon he went off and did his

[00:45:36] own thing she she called him and you know uh she would I think try to silently like maybe

[00:45:44] telepathically I think try to call out to him to bring him home because he's out doing

[00:45:48] whatever he wants um whatever he wants and he came home when he wanted he came home and then he

[00:45:53] disappeared again and he nearly killed her I know one time in the book so I think she just had to

[00:46:01] realize that you know yes we have this bond and you know uh respect for each other but at the

[00:46:08] same time at the end of the day he's going to do what he wants to do and I think that we

[00:46:11] have to remember that about these dragons that you know you can't expect that dragon rider to

[00:46:17] just automatically be able to control that dragon it's it's not just a tank that has no mind it's a

[00:46:24] living breathing thing and with vagar who is so battle hardened that you know it was it was it

[00:46:33] she she said nope I'm going after that dragon it just you know pulled that on me we're we're

[00:46:40] going for it and um I think that it makes sense um honestly and that was so hard to watch uh when

[00:46:55] because oh my gosh you know you thought you thought Luke got away and what a beautiful image too

[00:47:00] when he when he cleared the storm and got above the clouds yeah and it was light and I think it

[00:47:07] was important that they did this in the show because you know during the storm it was pretty dark and it

[00:47:11] was hard to see and um I think it was a good choice that they do this in broad daylight so there was

[00:47:16] no doubt as to what happened um and what the result was no yeah so it but it was just before

[00:47:24] that moment was such a beautiful image with Luke on air axe and you think oh my gosh did they

[00:47:30] did they make it are they gonna be okay and then vagar comes out of nowhere out of the clouds

[00:47:36] and um take some both down in one one bite and that was um I'm gonna get really emotional talking

[00:47:47] about it because uh not only you know baby Luke but then we lost a dragon and I don't think we've

[00:47:55] ever seen that right no we haven't seen a dragon death on screen before this season yet no and

[00:48:03] anytime you see it and again talking game of thrones spoilers so I hope to god y'all have

[00:48:08] watched this show but you know we had dragon deaths um not dragon on dragon but we lost some dragons in

[00:48:14] game of thrones and that had to be one of the I cried harder with dragons dying than any

[00:48:19] any person in game of thrones dying um so that was extremely hard to watch um and of course losing

[00:48:27] baby Luke like that and then to see Aamon's reaction that he's like oh shit um at the shock of what just

[00:48:36] happened as far as we know he hasn't killed anyone yet and I think this was the first time that we're

[00:48:42] seeing his reaction um that someone dying because of his actions um and there's no coming back

[00:48:49] from that because then in that moment not only has he like he knows he's responsible

[00:48:55] like he's just killed his um cousin is it cut let's see him and Rhaenyra or his nephew yeah

[00:49:02] nephew okay yeah nephew sorry kind of the twisted bloodlines I had to figure out where we were with

[00:49:07] that it's all one bloodline so he's killed his kin weird gnarled branch yeah so he's he not only

[00:49:14] as he killed a person but he's killed his kin um that's huge um because we've talked about

[00:49:20] that but also he's literally just started the big storm that's coming like there's no coming back

[00:49:32] uh from that you know um so that's a great point that you make there and I'm wondering

[00:49:39] is this the official start or was it when Kristen Cole killed Beasbury or was it when

[00:49:47] um all of the team black sympathizers were rounded up and put into jail or was it when

[00:49:57] and now his name escapes me was found hanging in the courtyard right so it seems to me that

[00:50:04] the Greens have taken the first three or four strikes to Rhaenyra's none at this point I think

[00:50:13] all of those things you could consider I mean there's no right or wrong answer

[00:50:17] I think though for Rhaenyra that there was definitely no going back after this

[00:50:26] right right right because then we saw the result of that once and I'm I know we'll talk about that

[00:50:33] I'm sure in in more detail but you know she she was trying to you know find a more peaceful

[00:50:41] diplomatic I don't know that that I don't know that it would have worked necessarily this is game of

[00:50:46] thrones and Westeros and I don't know how many um you know things like this have happened that

[00:50:57] haven't been just fought out on a battlefield so I don't know that she would have gotten her

[00:51:01] way but I know she was trying to find a peaceful no bloodshed type of way to resolve

[00:51:09] um the situation I don't think she was not willing to do what she needed to do to

[00:51:13] claim her throne but I think that her goal was to keep the kingdom united but for her anyway this

[00:51:20] was the no turning back point right and that that's another interesting point is that um

[00:51:28] she was trained by Viserys to rule with the entire kingdom in mind to rule with kindness

[00:51:34] and fairness and Aegon was pretty much thrust into this um having no real love in his life ever

[00:51:44] and now he has people that are using him as a pawn to stay in power and you know he doesn't really

[00:51:51] realize that and he's now the king and he's a volatile trash human being dumps dumpster fire

[00:51:58] um you know so you have these two very different sides these two very different personalities

[00:52:04] that are about to clash towards one another and by Aamond killing uh Luke that is going to set

[00:52:15] Rhaenyra on fire where she probably would have tried to find a diplomatic ending

[00:52:22] if not for that so there there is some truth to what you're saying with there is there's literally

[00:52:29] no turning back at this point like you've now woken the beast you've woken the dragon the dragon

[00:52:36] that's what I was thinking team black is coming for you good job Aamond you started a war awesome

[00:52:42] yeah whether he intended to or not and I mean I think that you could clearly see the intent

[00:52:47] was not there but again completely irresponsible to jump on this dragon and again not respect the

[00:52:55] dragon uh that you are on and um what that dragon can do um and it echoes back to what Viserys said

[00:53:05] in episode one or two when he was talking with um young Rhaenyra he said the idea

[00:53:12] that we control the dragons is an illusion they're a power man should never have trifled with

[00:53:16] one that brought the Valyria it's doom if we don't mind our own histories it will do the same to us

[00:53:24] and I think that Viserys you know we I've said so many times like oh I wish we would have gotten

[00:53:30] some flashbacks of Viserys writing uh Viserys writing uh Viserys writing uh Viserys writing

[00:53:33] uh Viserys writing uh Viserys writing uh Viserys writing uh Viserys writing uh Viserys writing

[00:53:34] uh because he wrote him one time when he was 16 he bonded with them took him for a ride

[00:53:38] one time at 16 and he never wrote him again and then after a time Valyrian then died um

[00:53:46] but I think that if I had to guess and I don't know this because I don't it wasn't really in the

[00:53:52] book and I don't really have any context but based on what I saw here based on what I heard

[00:53:57] Viserys tell Rhaenyra he understood dragons and how dangerous they were and that we didn't

[00:54:04] control them and that they did bring down and because he he read all the histories right he was

[00:54:08] reading he he read all about Valyria he was very much into the histories of of all of that and

[00:54:15] I think he understood how dangerous dragons could be and I think that he once he wrote Valyrian

[00:54:20] he really felt the full weight of that and was like no no no this is not for me um this this

[00:54:27] is dangerous and that is where Aimen definitely had I think a misstep um and I think it's going

[00:54:34] to be interesting that when Aimen gets home you know he can't he can't admit or at least team

[00:54:42] green is not going to be able to admit that he lost control of his dragon because that weakens

[00:54:47] them politically uh I I think either he goes home and he tells the truth uh what happened it

[00:54:55] was an accident I didn't mean for it to happen but it happened um are they going to say well it's

[00:55:05] better for you to be known as a kinslayer and bear the shame of that versus how it weakens team

[00:55:13] greens stance because you can't you can't say well this happened because uh Aimen couldn't

[00:55:19] control his dragon you can't you can't say that um it doesn't help I'll be interested

[00:55:26] to know how the story comes out if not for Aimen because nobody saw it

[00:55:34] mm-hmm you know what I mean yeah I don't know yeah I'm interested to know how that is all going

[00:55:43] to play out uh I hate it that we have to wait all this time it sucks yes at least gonna be

[00:55:51] I would say probably early at least 24 um it I doubt we'll get it in late 2023 Ryan Condol

[00:55:58] can't really say for sure I don't think it's in his control I did hear that they are just now

[00:56:03] writing it though and production is supposed to start early 2023 that's what I heard

[00:56:11] but yeah yeah so this scene um obviously a big scene definitely propels things a different

[00:56:18] we don't know what would have how things would have played out had this not happened

[00:56:24] in this way but um I mean RIP to Erox and sweet baby Luke and his sweet baby dragon

[00:56:32] that they were just scared and tried to fight and get away and lost their life

[00:56:38] so sad yeah it is uh for Reneira yeah I do like that Damon called

[00:56:48] the boys his sons in this episode

[00:56:53] yes but he could have also been referring to um Little Viseris and um

[00:57:01] oh yeah you're right

[00:57:04] yeah we didn't see them this episode so I forgot about them yeah yeah we did not see them

[00:57:11] but um they were mentioned because they were in Otto's terms that he presented from Queen the

[00:57:18] Dowager Queen right adolescent but yeah they uh we didn't see them which I think was okay because

[00:57:24] they're still pretty young so I I mean he could have still been referring to because I do feel

[00:57:32] they're they do make a perfect blended family the way that you know they've they've blended

[00:57:37] their children I definitely think uh Reneira sees Bela and Reina as as her daughters even though she

[00:57:43] didn't birth them so right which speaks to again her her parenting versus Allison you know she's not

[00:57:50] smacking our kids and grabbing their face and you know she's such a good mom honestly

[00:57:56] she's such a good mom versus and it's always the people that just were very hesitant on

[00:58:02] becoming moms you know that they'd like just really embrace the role and did write into it and

[00:58:08] she's just great mom agreed um so is that it yes I think I better stop because I talked for a long

[00:58:19] time no you keep going if you need to keep going um I wanted to just talk about grief a little bit

[00:58:28] because you you see that in this episode a lot and I so with Coraless and Reneys right yeah um

[00:58:36] I love I love all of their interactions honestly like I I need somebody to splice together all of

[00:58:42] their scenes this whole season and just send it to me okay thanks um so Coraless and Reneys

[00:58:53] talking to each other about about kind of the aftermath of Lena's death right when Reneys is

[00:59:02] like okay good you're alive you're fine great now I'm gonna be pissed at you I like that she didn't let

[00:59:09] like like or like go easy on him like she let him right oh she hasn't got easy on him

[00:59:17] the entire season I love her so much but she's like you abandoned me you know you went off to

[00:59:22] fight your stupid war that you needed to fight and uh he's like I needed to do something I need

[00:59:29] you know I couldn't just be here whatever and she's like I needed you I needed you to be here I needed

[00:59:34] you to be here for me you know and then you know he sees kind of like the error of his ways and

[00:59:41] his ambition when he learns about his brother's death and whatnot and then

[00:59:47] Reneys is like well listen since you've been asleep you know let me tell you what's been

[00:59:52] going down blah blah blah okay so you have you have these this married couple who they've lost both of

[01:00:00] their children and you know I mean you have two children and they're both gone you know I mean that's

[01:00:09] that's a recipe for disaster right there right and of course they're both needing to grieve

[01:00:15] separately you know she wanted to lean on her husband and her husband just wanted to go kill

[01:00:21] a bunch of people you know yeah and but then you see the same thing that's happening in Reneyra and

[01:00:28] Damon right they're both grieving she's trying to hold the realm together and lean on people for

[01:00:34] support and he wants to kill everything and everyone around him and he's in a position of power with

[01:00:43] Reneyra as queen at Dragonstone to do just that and Corliss because he is you know the lord of Driftmark

[01:00:53] he can go off without having to check with Reneys right um so there's this like power struggle

[01:01:01] power balance and these two couples that are very much in love with each other and very much devoted

[01:01:07] to each other and yet their their grieving is so individual and so alike at the same time

[01:01:14] and it really shows how a marriage can be torn apart by the loss of a loved one and really the loss

[01:01:20] of a child um you know I think it's the and I don't know the exact percentage but there it's

[01:01:28] a high percentage of marriages do not um do not succeed after losing a child and you know you see

[01:01:39] these two couples that that that are going through their own personal trauma in their own personal

[01:01:46] hell but you know miraculously all four of them are these two couples they can stay together

[01:01:52] you know yeah um and that's probably just because they're supposed to stay together right

[01:01:56] but right yeah there's not a whole lot of I don't think divorce it's an option but these are two couples

[01:02:02] that are also very devoted to one another yeah um and we've seen that with Corliss and Reneys the

[01:02:10] entire season they're very very devoted to one another they genuinely love and respect one

[01:02:16] another it is a marriage of equals and you see Reneyra and Damon and those two

[01:02:22] toxic as hell but they're devoted to that toxicity right so they do love each other very very much

[01:02:34] um and like I said earlier whenever Damon when Damon is you know called to be supportive to be

[01:02:42] loving he always steps up to the plate and he does so in a very wonderful way right that's

[01:02:50] one of his biggest redeeming qualities is how devoted he is to the people that he loves and his family

[01:02:57] um so so I just love seeing the way the very real way in this fantasy world of how

[01:03:06] brief is really portrayed and you can say that throughout the entire season is that

[01:03:11] grief and loss have been treated with a lot of um respect this entire season and they've done

[01:03:17] a very good job of of portraying that both in the writing and the actors agreed so it's little but

[01:03:29] that's um oh that was a lot that was big yeah not as long as a point is mine but it was very well said

[01:03:37] and thank you yeah I totally agree they've done a really good job handling that I think

[01:03:44] I agree um so what do you have next goodness um like I said it's a lot of small things after

[01:03:55] all of that um we talked about Reneira and her what I considered her battle um with her birth

[01:04:03] of her daughter um so I wanted to just kind of mention um the message to dragonstone

[01:04:13] we you know we've kind of mentioned it in small parts when we started but you know the the set

[01:04:20] of balls on auto to show up at dragonstone I mean dudes walking into a literal dragon pit you know

[01:04:32] so this was a really great call back to was it episode two I feel like it's all kind of blending

[01:04:38] together for me uh because I had a chance to go back and watch watch them again um but was it episode

[01:04:44] two when Damon is on dragonstone he's still in the dragon egg and you know auto has um and some

[01:04:52] of them have shown up to you know hey what are you doing and Reneira shows up so that's kind of

[01:05:00] is what's echoed in this episode Reneira's entrance like a girl boss on the back of sirex

[01:05:07] and shows you know her strength and power you know she's this is after she's been coordinated

[01:05:15] you know queen um she's there to definitely demonstrate her strength um and she definitely

[01:05:22] does it in a very different way she's very calm and it seems like she's really ready to tell auto

[01:05:29] what he can do with those terms uh which I love Damon is definitely not shy about you know his

[01:05:36] thoughts and and I thought you know it's definitely um you know some good good lines and good moments

[01:05:42] that make me giggle because that's Damon um but you know she's she's queen and she's you

[01:05:48] know she holds herself in a in a different way um and it looks like she is though ready to tell

[01:05:54] auto that he can stuff it but then she waivers because then she is given the page from that book

[01:06:01] that allicent kept from all these years and that was a page from the book that they were reading

[01:06:07] when they were young under the gods would and that serving as a reminder to Reneira um and

[01:06:14] again you know I've mentioned it so many times but I just feel like it it you know it can't be

[01:06:20] um downplayed as the the acting that's done with everyone's facial expressions

[01:06:28] you know you really see Reneira in that moment because she's very even though she's not loving

[01:06:34] everything she's hearing you know as autos giving out these terms you know and honestly I mean

[01:06:39] considering the situation they're in I know that she's probably considering them into some way

[01:06:44] I mean she is pretty pissed obviously and with good reason that they have usurped

[01:06:50] her throne she is the heir and they have committed treason by what they've done so

[01:06:58] she is understandably and rightfully pissed uh but he's giving out terms you know

[01:07:05] that are somewhat fair except for the part where he does mention uh vis vis seris and um

[01:07:13] oh shoot what was the older boy what was the two boys her and Damon's boys why are the names escaping

[01:07:20] me but they were talking about them serving there in king's land and vis seris agon yes thank you

[01:07:26] cheese why why can't I yes because it's agon the younger because there's a lot of agon yes

[01:07:31] agon the younger is what they call their son or well it's what everyone else calls them to keep

[01:07:36] the agons separate since there are two in this timeline um so yes agon the younger and then um

[01:07:42] vis seris sorry um I'll continue um when they mention them you know oh they can be cut cut bear and

[01:07:50] and reside at king's landing but i'm like dude that's basically keeping them as prisoner in a way

[01:07:56] that's you know words yeah yeah so that's not the best of terms but either way you know the other

[01:08:01] terms at least don't sound too terrible so you know she's probably considering them and also probably

[01:08:05] considering telling him he can shove it um and she's keeping very steadfast and she her you know

[01:08:11] it's hard to kind of read that emotion on her face until she sees that that page of that book

[01:08:16] and she does um you know her face just crumbles in that moment and again emma d'arcy played it so well

[01:08:24] because you definitely read everything on their face in that scene uh agreed so I thought totally

[01:08:33] agreed yeah so you know what's interesting too is that um Raniera shows up on cyrax in both of

[01:08:40] those scenes in episode two and episode ten when you know when Otto and Damon are sparring verbally

[01:08:50] sparring and it's going to go to blows Raniera shows up each time you know on cyrax yeah and right

[01:08:59] and deus glates right deus glitz that's so much better than sooth and deus glitz this situation

[01:09:06] and she also takes command of of both of those situations which proves that she has the leadership

[01:09:13] ability and the ruling ability to do this job yeah even though you know she's a woman yes

[01:09:21] god forbid a woman rule or you know can't have the ability to rule right stay in the bedroom

[01:09:29] bear the babies you know screw you so yeah uh yeah that was um that was one of my points as well as

[01:09:40] just that that whole that whole thing with um Otto and Damon and Raniera it's like we've all been here

[01:09:47] before mm-hmm yeah this time christin coal wasn't there was he no thank goodness yeah no but it was

[01:09:58] really interesting though because we had both sir eric who was on Raniera side and sir arc

[01:10:06] who was on the the uh green side behind Otto and you could definitely we got to see some glances

[01:10:13] between the two brothers definitely building some tension there so that's not gonna end well

[01:10:20] I mean it's yeah uh it's not great and it's you know definitely it's it's between this family

[01:10:29] right this feud between this family and it extends just beyond their family it's

[01:10:35] you know other families as well and yeah theirs is definitely a part of it that they're definitely

[01:10:40] split they don't see eye to eye on that as you know either um and just a comment a quick

[01:10:45] comment about sir I said sorry if I took your point there um no not at all I noticed that

[01:10:50] I was like wow so again echoing kind of the scene that we had earlier in in the series

[01:10:57] or in the season and I'm like gosh sir X doesn't look much bigger like shouldn't she have grown

[01:11:03] because dragon just continuously grow and right there's been many years it's passed I think it's

[01:11:09] 20 maybe one years this past since that scene I'm thinking why hasn't sir X grown and it then

[01:11:16] it occurred to me um if folks don't know much about dragons and dragon lore dragons grow more

[01:11:25] and they thrive off of like being like free or not chained up or kept so when dragons are

[01:11:35] like for example kept in the dragon pit um or when they're chained um or kept in a closed space

[01:11:43] they don't grow as fast or as much versus which is I think why regal and viscerian were

[01:11:50] significantly smaller than drogon I think so yes because we know dany locked them up for a little

[01:11:57] while um because she again was not able to control them and she was trying to protect

[01:12:03] people and they were kind of going rogue uh and then drogon however was off free so yeah he was I

[01:12:09] think bigger because of that and so I thought about that you know sir X is kept on dragon stone

[01:12:17] once they once they went to I think she was I think before they moved to dragon stone a few

[01:12:23] episodes prior to that when they were still at king's lane I think she was kept in the

[01:12:25] dragon pit and then when they went to um dragon stone I think she was kept there

[01:12:31] you know and just kind of kept isolated and when they don't have the room to grow

[01:12:35] they they don't grow as fast they don't grow as much they're kept smaller

[01:12:39] so for anyone who's maybe questioning why sirex wasn't as big I think that that

[01:12:44] kind of answers that question I know I thought about it and then I had to kind of think back

[01:12:48] like oh yeah if she's kept in you know small or not small like cruel or anything like that

[01:12:54] but you know what I mean just um kept not freely roaming right then that happens yeah

[01:13:01] that's a good point she looked good though still look good yes she did beautiful girl

[01:13:08] anyway that's all I had to say so um the last like big thing I guess it's really little but

[01:13:16] um I just I just love that table I love that table I love that table so much

[01:13:23] when it was lit up that was one of the greatest things I've seen I think it's the best shot

[01:13:29] of the season to be quite honest when that when they put the fire underneath that table and you

[01:13:35] saw the entire table and map light up it was stunning it was stunning it it was absolutely

[01:13:44] breathtaking and magnificent who who kept the secret from Daenerys and uh stanis

[01:13:51] and why didn't they see maybe there were melted candles or melted box or something on this table

[01:13:58] who's cleaning like hey what are these candles done under here oh maybe we should light them up

[01:14:02] and see what happens it was so pretty it was so it I mean it drew gasps from both of us on the

[01:14:11] couch like I believe it that doesn't happen a lot right like my husband is very stoic

[01:14:18] and so both of us were just like whoa oh like it was amazing it was amazing and I just um

[01:14:25] really really really enjoyed the visual artistry of that moment oh gosh it was glorious and you got to see

[01:14:37] all you know this whole map of Westeros right and all of its rivers and landmarks

[01:14:43] and it was it was gorgeous and there was gasps from my couch too so yeah you weren't the only one I just

[01:14:51] thought oh my gosh and all this time we didn't know that you could do that and I thought it was

[01:14:56] brilliant and just as a little history lesson that painted table was created by Aegon the

[01:15:01] Conqueror to aid in his conquest of Westeros uh so it was it was good to see it again

[01:15:09] I mean we've seen it in other episodes while we've visited Dragonstone in this series but you

[01:15:15] know it's good to see it again uh in a different way than what we came to know it in Game of Thrones

[01:15:21] it just and you know seeing that you know I talk about Dany like oh why didn't Dany what which

[01:15:26] why would she um and maybe Stannis too but seeing that and then seeing like Damon and

[01:15:35] Damon is so into their Valyrian their old Valyrian ways and so um honoring of Targaryen traditions

[01:15:44] and old Valyrian traditions and how he and Rhaenyra are you know they speak high Valyrian to each other

[01:15:52] and they very much like and he especially likes to keep the old ways you know oh let's go kill

[01:15:59] everyone everyone with dragons that's our way right that's how we win things it makes me so sad

[01:16:04] to like think of Dany in Game of Thrones and how she just didn't get any of that she doesn't have

[01:16:10] her culture and her histories and these stories and to be able to live and breathe and see those

[01:16:15] traditions um and just makes makes me sad but that's kind of like a side note but it

[01:16:22] that's kind of where my thoughts go when I see something like that and then you see Dany at

[01:16:26] Dragonstone later and it's like she she missed out on all of this right she didn't have any

[01:16:31] of her family guiding her and telling her about her history I mean she did but he was a wanker so

[01:16:41] he's a wanker yeah um that painted table a whole sequence yeah the lighting of the table and then

[01:16:47] you know you see that the table is set for war and then Damon announces her as the queen for

[01:16:52] the very first time and she now has these queens guard that comes in and they have new

[01:17:00] uniforms um look like now whether they're queens guard uniforms or other uniforms these uniforms are

[01:17:09] deliciously black and red and beautiful like they've got these rich cloaks and these amazing

[01:17:18] you know suits of I don't know armor and thread and whatever it is that it is but

[01:17:24] I did notice that there was a definite difference and what was interesting to me

[01:17:28] is that there seemed to be Kings Guard uniforms before and after that scene and then there were

[01:17:37] Queens Guard uniforms that were completely different in that scene so I'm wondering what

[01:17:44] if there if that was the Queens Guard if that was something different um

[01:17:49] so I hope we see more of those uniforms because I like them better yeah they were super cool

[01:17:54] and I'm hoping I just don't I get a little and take a peek at some of the news and interviews after

[01:18:02] the episode airs and while I'm trying to do my prep but I can't go too deep because I'm trying to

[01:18:06] really focus on my prep and my thoughts about the show so I'm really anxious that now unfortunately

[01:18:13] at the finale and now I'm going to have more time on my hands to really take a deep dive and

[01:18:18] really get like that behind the scenes stuff because I've really missed out on a lot of

[01:18:22] like where did these ideas come from where do they get these inspirations for the costume because

[01:18:27] the costumes have been just absolute perfection great so I'm really hoping to you know get those

[01:18:33] behind the scenes interviews from the folks that have you know been responsible for creating

[01:18:38] the hairstyles and the braids and the plates and um the the the costumes and you know the

[01:18:44] ideas behind that and was this intentional or oh well we didn't think about that but we're

[01:18:48] glad it worked out um so I'm hoping maybe we'll get get some of that um but I thought they were

[01:18:54] magnificent they they were pretty cool support queen mm-hmm I just I like the black and red too

[01:19:03] like it's just it's awesome yeah yeah my favorite colors uh anything else for that one before I

[01:19:15] was just gonna keep moving keep it moving we got so much to talk about and I know this is gonna go long

[01:19:22] well let's let's talk a little bit about um Damon and Renea's relationship taking a turn

[01:19:29] I know what you're gonna talk about and I think that that's that's our natural next step yeah

[01:19:36] because you know you've talked about the the trauma and the grief in the show and I think this

[01:19:41] is definitely where some of this comes out you know you can definitely see the impact when

[01:19:46] when princess Renea's shows up and announces Bissaris' death and how that um emotion comes

[01:19:52] across Renea's face and how that also impacts Damon it's in a different way um but it is impactful

[01:19:59] he loved his brother you know Damon Damon is a lot of things and but he he does love his family

[01:20:09] and you cannot say that he didn't love his brother and he's angry um and he's grieving

[01:20:21] and the scene between him and Renea when she clears asked the room to be cleared

[01:20:28] because obviously what she wants to talk about cannot be said in front of others it's a secret

[01:20:32] but she talks to him about a song by some fire and that is that prophecy that Bissaris

[01:20:38] passed on to her and she assumes that Damon knows about this because remember before Renea was born

[01:20:50] Damon was Bissaris' heir he was his heir um until she came along that's true so why didn't he

[01:20:59] say anything I oh I mean it's sad but you know and Bissaris I know loved Damon

[01:21:08] but I don't think he trusted him he said like he when Damon was like oh give me Renea

[01:21:16] you know when back in the young days right he's like give me Renea we had made to Renea

[01:21:22] he was Bissaris was like outraged absolutely not because that just gets Damon closer to the throne

[01:21:29] I think he he tried to keep him at bay he wouldn't have him on the council

[01:21:35] he didn't have him as his hand which I feel like was a mistake I don't think that he could trust

[01:21:42] I think he thought he couldn't trust him he thought for many reasons um and just one of them being

[01:21:48] at least a minor part anyway that Damon was a hothead and he was ambitious and he was selfish

[01:21:54] um and I say these things was he is he is all of those things not was

[01:21:59] so I just don't think he didn't trust him and I think it pissed Damon off that the series didn't

[01:22:05] share that with him because he should have because and especially in this world freaking

[01:22:11] Westeros people die all the time and right being a king or being an heir or a queen or

[01:22:18] princess being royalty didn't make you you're still human and you can still die of an illness

[01:22:24] you can die in an accident you could fall tripping down the damn stairs or something

[01:22:28] you know there I mean and there's not the modern medicine that can help you uh so

[01:22:35] you know I it would have been important I think that before uh Renea was born knowing that Damon

[01:22:43] was his heir and then when that secret was passed along to him he probably should have been like

[01:22:48] you know hey because I could die tomorrow I should pass this on to Damon and he didn't do it

[01:22:54] and I think that really pissed off Damon in that moment when he heard that from Renea and

[01:23:01] I just feel like because I I see so many comments online people that are outraged thinking that this

[01:23:07] is not that this is out of character for Damon and I'm sorry to say that it's not

[01:23:13] definitely not I'm really shocked by comments like that look I I like Damon I I think he's

[01:23:22] super fun to watch and I've said that countless times but I will by no means defend any of his

[01:23:27] actions really because I understand who he is um he's fun to watch you ain't gonna fix him sorry

[01:23:33] to say um and of course being played by Matt Smith I mean he's super charismatic so that

[01:23:40] you know certainly plays into things and I'm sure some feelings about him um but

[01:23:46] this is for me not out of his character he killed his wife smashed her head in I mean

[01:23:52] do we forget why he didn't go to the veil let's just talk like he didn't go to the veil

[01:23:58] there's a reason why right you know Damon is selfish he's ambitious uh

[01:24:06] and and many other things so this was not a great scene between him and Renea but I

[01:24:14] I see why he was acting out and what was behind it he just lost his brother he just lost his

[01:24:19] baby um he is some for some reason convinced that Viserys was murdered instead of him dying

[01:24:27] because of his illness um so and and of course he's ready for war you know and he's kind of

[01:24:36] being tethered and not being able to do I love to know why he thinks that too you know what I

[01:24:41] mean like why do you think that your brother has been murdered I I think part of it and again

[01:24:48] I don't know that I'm right this is just my perspective is I know he's never trusted Otto

[01:24:54] Hightower and he and with good reason right but I think that he I think anyway thinks that

[01:25:03] because of Otto's ambition to put Aegon on the throne that he would be looking for any

[01:25:10] reason to get rid of Viserys and we saw in uh episode eight when uh before Viserys died

[01:25:18] and they were visiting him remember he was sniffing that cup he's like can I you know give me my tea

[01:25:23] give me my tea oh yeah and he was sniffing the cup and I know we talked about that like well why is

[01:25:28] he sniffing the cup uh right and and I think you could have read a couple of different things

[01:25:33] into that it could have just been well is he's wanting to see if obviously what he's

[01:25:37] drinking but is he suspicious of what he's drinking or like oh it's just milk with a poppy I do think

[01:25:43] it was just milk with a poppy um but you can overdose on that you absolutely can I thought for sure

[01:25:50] I'm kind of in Damon's you know frame of mind that I I do think that he was probably overdosed

[01:25:58] on milk with a poppy for sure um by Allison whether it was accident or not I think that

[01:26:04] you know if they were to like I don't know look into it autopsy or whatever you know it was probably

[01:26:11] an accidental or on purpose overdose of milk with poppy for sure I'm sure he probably had a lot in

[01:26:17] his system um but also yeah let that man have his drugs because geez uh the amount of pain he was in

[01:26:26] yeah uh so I you know again it could have been accidental um but I mean I don't I don't think

[01:26:33] that they intentionally um poisoned him it could have been very much just either had too much or he

[01:26:38] just did succumb to his illness I mean the dude's face and he was like literally falling apart had

[01:26:43] ulcers all over his body and just right but anyway um he's I think just because he's so

[01:26:49] un entrusting of the greens Allison and egg or sorry not a gone necessarily but um Otto

[01:26:58] that he thinks that so I think he's having all of these emotions and he's really pissed

[01:27:02] and it comes out in that moment where he gets very physical with uh Reneira

[01:27:08] and she's obviously very taken aback and realizes he was not aware of that prophecy

[01:27:13] and I think that's also why she is kind of tempered a little bit as far as like trying to

[01:27:18] because that's what she tells him she's like you know it's not just for

[01:27:23] you know um you know do I just go and claim the throne no matter what

[01:27:27] or do I try to like hold things together you know she believes as part of this prophecy she's got a whole

[01:27:33] you know the seven kingdoms together for what's her first objective above everything else

[01:27:40] absolutely she feels that that's part of her duty so you know not not a not a great look for

[01:27:46] Damon in in this episode uh by any means but I just you know want to be clear that I I don't see

[01:27:52] that it was is not that it was awesome to watch or anything like that but it was just like that's

[01:27:57] that's a day but I know you know um yeah right and no I I wasn't surprised by it at all I mean

[01:28:04] yes it was he went a little too far but I think it was right in line with his character for sure

[01:28:10] and also just the emotions as well that that that pushed him to that not that's not a good

[01:28:16] that's probably not a good phrase but that was behind a lot of that was was the emotion there

[01:28:21] the trauma the loss the grief and experiencing it in a different way than Raniera you know

[01:28:27] seeing the fact that Viserys had this much of an influence over Raniera with you know

[01:28:32] him telling her you know the dreams and the prophecy and this he you know

[01:28:37] he's a very kind of black and white kind of guy he's like listen the reason why we're in power is

[01:28:41] because of the dragons like enough with the prophecies enough with the dreams enough with this

[01:28:46] like it's because of the dragons yeah we rule because of the dragons like shut up about the

[01:28:52] rest you know and so I think that that really goes to the two schools of thought on Tiger

[01:28:58] on the Targaryen dynasty right is is it the dragons is it prophecy is it a mix of both

[01:29:05] right and I think that there is nobody right now who thinks that it's a mix of both I think

[01:29:11] you fall on one or the other side and I would say that most people would side with Daemon in this

[01:29:19] with the fact that it is the dragons because people are scared of them they're you know they're

[01:29:23] very they're volatile they're they're B 52s they're nuclear bombs right and then you see

[01:29:29] you know Raniera's like but there's a prophecy and there's this and there's that and you're

[01:29:33] like shh shh we're not crazy okay let's not let's not you know drive them crazy here okay so I will

[01:29:41] move this right along awesome um and you know I just have a lot of like little things now

[01:29:49] yes to be quite honest um you know one of the things that I really liked was um the opening

[01:29:56] scene with Raniera and Luke um talking about destiny and duty uh Luke is very very nervous

[01:30:03] about taking over driftmark he thinks that you know his grandfather is going to die he thinks

[01:30:09] that he's going to have to take over driftmark he's really scared he knows that he's not ready

[01:30:13] um you know he he gets seasick his grandfather is you know I mean anybody following in in

[01:30:20] Corleis or big shoes those are huge shoes right like nobody and Lena or would have it wouldn't

[01:30:27] have been able to do it Lena wouldn't have been able to do it nobody's going to be able to do it right um

[01:30:34] vehement wouldn't be able to do it no no one is no one is toured as much as as Corleis in his

[01:30:41] years um right you know on the seas and and seen as much as what he has seen that's how

[01:30:45] he's built this wealth and and no one's done what he's done so yeah immense shoes to fill

[01:30:52] right and Raniera speaks about how she didn't want to take up the mantle of being the heir

[01:30:59] to the throne and she had to come to terms with it and she had to you know start to be ready for it

[01:31:06] and uh she said and you know you need to trust me that as your mother I'm going to help you

[01:31:11] too I'm going to be with you every step of the way and it's just it's so indicative of what a good

[01:31:17] mother she is because you see on the other side of the coin Allison who just you know disowns

[01:31:24] Aegon and then makes him king and you know ignores him for most of his life smacks him

[01:31:30] his mistakes it smacks him and you know whatever and then and then all of a sudden she's like

[01:31:36] I love you here's the cat spa here's this you're the king you're the best like I I'd have emotional

[01:31:42] whiplash over this woman you know and it really speaks to the fact that her children are horrible

[01:31:50] and Raniera's children are these really like down-to-earth honorable young men yeah

[01:31:58] who are taking their duties so seriously and so I love the fact that you just continued to see

[01:32:09] Raniera's mark on her children and how she has raised her boys and it's wonderful you know you

[01:32:17] even see like her stepdaughters that she's taken in as well who are you know happy to be there

[01:32:24] and seem to really like and respect her as well so you know she even got Rhaenys to come around on her

[01:32:30] so you know I know that you know we have were kind of you know team black apologists in some ways

[01:32:36] but there's something to be said for you know for the blacks and and the greens I mean they're

[01:32:43] they're so different and they're so different from their matriarch so I'm interested to see

[01:32:49] what happens going forward in season two the long long wait until season two yeah I long night begins

[01:32:58] yeah I totally agree with you such a beautiful scene but you know I and I agree with what you said

[01:33:03] and I but I also read a little bit more into what Luke was saying and I think because I think

[01:33:11] he and Jisera's both know they're bastard children yeah they're strong and

[01:33:19] I think he's saying without saying it that he's not he's like not worthy like I know

[01:33:26] I shouldn't be doing this and that he wants to say no to that because he doesn't feel

[01:33:31] like he's worthy of that I think Raniera can also sense that too

[01:33:35] you know but uh yeah there's a such a beautiful moment which again makes you know what happens later

[01:33:45] just you know it would be tragic no matter what but to see that sweet moment you know and how she

[01:33:51] is just so loving and sweet and respectful and rising like she's he's raising him up

[01:33:59] you know uh which is you know and you made a good point to that you know we saw when she was young

[01:34:06] how she's like I have zero interest in having children or getting married and doing all of these

[01:34:10] things that I'm supposed to do just because I'm a woman right like I'm supposed to want to do

[01:34:13] these things and I don't want to do any of them and you know it's it is funny because

[01:34:18] I think that that turns out some some people that have that attitude turn out to be the

[01:34:24] greatest parents and not to toot my own horn but you know I was never really interested in

[01:34:30] having children whenever I was young either like I was like no not for me and I obviously I have a

[01:34:38] child today well I say child she is a grown ass woman she's an adult um she's still my child um

[01:34:45] but you know I I would absolutely die for my girl you know and she has turned out amazing I don't

[01:34:52] know how um but you know I as of her mom well it's like you really do feel like there's something

[01:34:59] different once you know you think you don't want children and and then you have one and it really

[01:35:06] it's like wow you know you don't think you can do it and you don't think you're gonna be a good

[01:35:10] mom because you're like well I I don't know what to do and I you know wasn't interested this

[01:35:16] is not the path I chose for myself really but here I am and so I totally get that when

[01:35:22] that really resonated with me when you said that and I think that really shows there with

[01:35:25] Renea because I mean she didn't just stop at one you know she had as they were pointing out when

[01:35:30] she was in um labor with Visenya you know those are six baby so she obviously once she

[01:35:38] started having children I think really enjoyed motherhood as well and it really right set well

[01:35:42] it sits well with Renea yeah motherhood she's good at it for sure so anyway I did

[01:35:48] mean to throw in my personal note in there but um no I love it resonated and definitely

[01:35:52] shows with Renea she's good mom yeah um the last little thing I have and then I'll turn it over to

[01:36:00] you is um Horliss and his support for Renea um I love the way he comes in I love the way

[01:36:12] him and Renea speak to each other um as adults as equals um he takes on a very fatherly role

[01:36:20] which I think she needs in this moment yes um and he tells her the best news she could have heard

[01:36:28] which was that they control the stepstones they control the shipping lanes they can ice out

[01:36:36] King's Landing and I think that this is probably the single most important advantage that they have

[01:36:45] going into this is that they can essentially freeze all shipping all imports and exports in

[01:36:52] and out of King's Landing um and Renea's like comes up and she says I'm gonna look over that

[01:37:00] myself I'm I'm taking part in this as well and she all of a sudden Renea all all of a sudden realizes

[01:37:07] she has allies but she also has family that she can count on yes and this is a woman that has lost

[01:37:14] her dad lost her mom she doesn't have her friend anymore her half brother took her crown

[01:37:21] you know so she really needed to know that she had support of not only allies but family

[01:37:29] and Coralus I think really took on this role in um a very nuanced way and I'm very excited about

[01:37:38] Coralus being back in action oh yeah selfishly I just oh my gosh when he came in and I was like

[01:37:44] yes thank you I missed you I know all the all the episodes were like is Coralus alive what's

[01:37:49] going on with Coralus uh so it was good to one when we got finally um in a previous episode

[01:37:54] got confirmation that he is still alive anyway right um but well where the hell is he and then

[01:37:59] you had to have him back uh what an amazing show of support for Renea and I agree with everything

[01:38:05] that you said that it was you know such a turning point in their strategies and knowing

[01:38:14] how many houses that will not support her you know she you know isn't sure about who will

[01:38:23] you know she's still waiting for word about you know um Jace and Luke's you know what what

[01:38:30] what the word is back from those houses you know and who's going to support her moving forward

[01:38:34] and things are kind of shaky and knowing that Coralus commands such a large fleet

[01:38:42] at his disposal and I mean he is he's battle hardened and that's what was so great about

[01:38:48] having his experience there and um at the painted table you know all the wealth of knowledge and

[01:38:55] experience that he brings and now that they control the stepstones and uh they can like

[01:38:59] you said ice out king's landing shut down those shipping lanes that's huge

[01:39:06] and she really needed yeah she really did need that she needed that figure because Damon they

[01:39:11] her and Damon have had that moment that I mentioned um so he's off somewhere

[01:39:17] and we find out where which we'll talk I'll mention but um so he's off and she really needs that

[01:39:25] you know it's been peaceful times in Westeros since Jaehaerys it's been peaceful Visaris it was

[01:39:32] peaceful you know you don't have too many folks that have seen and no war and strategy and she

[01:39:40] really needs that as much as what I think they've tried to Visaris has tried to kind of prepare

[01:39:45] her to be heir and I don't think he did enough which you know I've mentioned before it's a fault

[01:39:51] of Visaris I think he should have done a lot more to include her but um you know there's not a lot of

[01:39:57] folks that have that experience so to have Coralus in your corner it's a big deal

[01:40:03] agreed totally agree love that so that's all I have so I turn it over to you my friend

[01:40:11] well I'll I'll mention just quickly I know we've we've touched on it a little bit but I want to

[01:40:17] make sure call out that impactful moment there at the very end after the battle at storms

[01:40:24] and between Aemond and Luke and we come back to Dragonstone and of course still everyone's

[01:40:32] still at the painting table you know talking strategy and you know it's a very slow motion

[01:40:38] which I thought was impactful and we get Damon coming in and you just know I mean you know what

[01:40:43] he's coming in the room for and very gently grabbing Renea's hand and pulling her away from the table

[01:40:50] and can't be said how much they do without any dialogue I mean we know that they're speaking

[01:40:57] to each other but we don't need to hear it to know what he's saying to her and

[01:41:01] and we can see Renea's reaction you know when she her hand comes down she stumbles a bit

[01:41:13] and she grabs I think she's grabbing her womb which she's just gotten the news of she's lost

[01:41:19] her her baby boy she just lost her daughter as well and and then she slowly you know rises

[01:41:30] and she turns and that look on her face the so here here's the culmination of all of the trauma

[01:41:41] that she went through she had a very traumatic birth birthing experience she has lost her father

[01:41:47] she has lost her baby she has lost her son her childhood friend has betrayed her her half

[01:41:57] brother has betrayed her and that whole side of the family has usurped her throne and betrayed her

[01:42:05] all of that comes out and all of her talk of trying to have things move forward in a peaceful

[01:42:16] manner to be diplomatic and to find a way other than setting all the cities on fire with dragons

[01:42:25] and more death I think is all eliminated in that moment with that one look and it was absolute

[01:42:35] perfection I loved it I did too I mean you could feel it you I felt everything in in that look

[01:42:48] and then of course cut to black and I'm just like oh my god kind of wait till freaking season

[01:42:54] so next week but absolutely amazing acting again I can't say it enough imitar see

[01:43:01] geez what a talent yeah so I had to mention that because I feel that was so impactful

[01:43:10] and yes brilliantly done and what a great great way to wrap up that episode

[01:43:16] um so as I mentioned Damon's off doing other things and he's out singing lullabies to dragons

[01:43:27] singing in high valerian which was an unexpected little moment and just I don't know just beautiful

[01:43:35] I want to go sing to a dragon that was great can we just stop for a moment and mention that you

[01:43:40] know Matt Smith has a very good singing voice didn't he though I did yes I wouldn't have known

[01:43:46] it was beautiful I was impressed yeah I mean I'm so glad I'm not an actor and that they're like okay

[01:43:52] now you gotta sing in this episode I'm like well you better get a stand in or lip sync or something

[01:43:59] so it's a nice treat when you when you know you have someone who who's also not just

[01:44:04] talented in their acting but also has a nice voice yeah it was what a nice surprise

[01:44:10] way to go Matt Smith agreed yes lovely singing voice in this high valerian lullaby that he is singing

[01:44:17] to this dragon and for anyone who isn't sure or doesn't know who this dragon is this dragon

[01:44:23] as I give an introduction to every dragon as they're introduced for the first time

[01:44:27] on screen this is vermouth or so vermouth or of all the dragons in westeros only vagar

[01:44:36] was older and larger so vermouth or is pretty big if you didn't if you didn't get that when he's

[01:44:43] lighting up I don't know if it's like a cave that's this dwelling that he's in wherever he's at

[01:44:48] as he lights up the sky I think you kind of get the idea of how big he is so he is only

[01:44:53] second in size to vagar and an H he was bronze in color with great tan wings he's

[01:45:01] almost a hundred years old at this time that we see him here so due to his side

[01:45:08] due to his size he's not as nimble in the air as some of the smaller younger dragons but his flame

[01:45:15] in the fullness of his power melted steel and stone amazing yeah pretty powerful and unlike his

[01:45:25] wild brethren vermouth or was accustomed to men and tolerant of their presence but when riled he was a

[01:45:33] truly terrifying dragon vermouth or was originally ridden by king jaharis king jaharis was the king

[01:45:42] just before viscerus he is the one that named viscerus his heir so that that is who and he's

[01:45:50] been unwritten all this time so once jaharis was either unable to because he was very old when he

[01:45:56] passed so i'm sure there came a time where he was unable to ride I don't remember exactly when he

[01:46:00] stopped but he lived a very long time but since jaharis's death vermouth or has been unwritten

[01:46:06] and just chilling out a dragon stone he's just chilling so I think it was good to kind of

[01:46:14] see him because we we get mention of a lot of dragons that are unclaimed and writerless

[01:46:22] vermouth or is among the writerless and so I think it's just a remembrance of

[01:46:27] there's other dragons out there you know so that's a good reminder and I think the scene was also

[01:46:34] because I mentioned earlier about amond not understanding vagar and the magnitude of what

[01:46:42] being a dragon writer of vagar means I think in the scene it shows how much daemon does understand

[01:46:50] dragons when yeah and and he does he's the dragon whisperer of this show totally 100

[01:46:57] percent totally uh so I you know he he understands them he respects them and I think

[01:47:06] you know because oh i'm in a hand he has to because his dragon craxies very aggressive dragon

[01:47:14] very battle hardened maybe not seen as many battles as what vagar has in her 170 180 years but

[01:47:21] you know craxies has been around the block too so very much a difference in the dragon

[01:47:29] writers and understanding and respecting the power of dragons and how how you can get them on your side

[01:47:36] you know and to be clear he's not bonding with vermouth or by any means he has a dragon no no so

[01:47:43] don't let you know if anyone's thinking oh is he bought no he's not bonding with the dragon

[01:47:48] getting ready for war yeah he's gathering up the dragons to say hey it's time fellas waking

[01:47:54] him up and I wanted to mention they did translate the lullaby that he was singing to vermouth or which

[01:48:00] I thought was because vermouth or was kind of like hey that's kind of nice you know so it makes me

[01:48:04] wonder did jaharis maybe sing this to him or something you know I don't know I don't know

[01:48:09] that sweet yeah but I was like he seemed to like kind of you know have this little interested

[01:48:16] nod to his head you know a little bit as he's staring at daemon as he's singing uh so really

[01:48:21] really great moment but it translates to and I'm not going to sing this again I'm not a singer but

[01:48:27] it translates to fire breather winged leader but two heads to a third sing from my voice the fires

[01:48:36] have spoken and the price has been paid with blood magic with words of flame with clear eyes

[01:48:43] to bind the three to you I sing as when we gather and with three heads we shall fly as we were

[01:48:52] destined beautifully freely so I think there's some context y'all can go look this up online I don't

[01:49:01] have it I didn't have a chance to get all I had way too many notes and just not enough time to

[01:49:06] get it all down maybe I'll talk about it in arm another episode um in the future I think we'll

[01:49:12] probably talk about later um there's some context there that I think there's some references to like

[01:49:18] agon and his uh sisters from the you know talking about the three headed dragon because that's what

[01:49:24] three headed dragon represents that where that came from was agon and his sister wives vasenia

[01:49:28] and reina um I think there's some references to that I think the um when it says the fires

[01:49:33] have spoken the price has been paid with blood magic um I think that's reference to old valyrian

[01:49:38] doom um so yeah thought it would agree with that yeah so some nice little references there and I

[01:49:46] thought just a wonderful moment and a good um juxtaposition between two dragon riders and

[01:49:51] how they understand or know dragons um one other little note because I think that this

[01:49:58] this is worth attention we've talked much about rena and the the kids

[01:50:03] so after rena is crowned queen uh reina comes up and gives her a cup of wine she must be I'm guessing

[01:50:12] now rena's cut bear and reina takes it from her sorry rena takes it from her and what does she do

[01:50:20] says come and she invites her to the table yes and then as they're walking she stops looks at

[01:50:26] beila and a little nod to her head and invites her to come too this is huge right rena inviting girls

[01:50:36] to the table and showing them that women have a place there too love that and I think that was

[01:50:44] also a little tipping point that helped reynies uh you know feel like even though she's waiting

[01:50:53] for corollus to make her decision right um and to based on his decision and you know talking it out with

[01:50:58] him uh but I think that she liked that too because of course reynies was that was taken from her

[01:51:08] right she she was the right player and that was taken from her and and because she was a woman

[01:51:12] and now she's seeing you know rena queen and how she is like including them to the table when

[01:51:19] rena was turned away when she was cut bear viscera's wouldn't let her have a word she wouldn't let her

[01:51:25] have a say or he wouldn't let her have a say he wouldn't let her come to the table and she is

[01:51:30] doing the exact opposite and she's she's including them and so I love that she has all of her

[01:51:36] children she's got the boys there the girls are standing there on either they're on either

[01:51:41] side of her which I thought was just great and it really shows a big difference between

[01:51:47] Allyson and Renea where Allyson who says a woman uh or women roll behind men by guiding them

[01:51:55] you know where Renea has always believed that a woman deserves a place at the table

[01:52:01] well she's been told that she has the place at the table and then nobody backed it up

[01:52:07] so I think that that that's such a good point that you're making and and I do love that I love

[01:52:12] it that I mean she invites everybody to the table when uh Jay said hey we're your dragon

[01:52:18] riders and they're gonna get there and we're gonna get there faster than anybody else let us go

[01:52:22] that's a big callback to when Renea made the same request to her father and her father shut her

[01:52:30] down and Renea knowing how capable she felt in that moment she knows that her sons are capable

[01:52:37] of this of this job and putting the trust in them allows it to happen that the seris didn't give her

[01:52:43] right right yeah so it was very small but I thought worth the attention

[01:52:58] yeah totally that's awesome um I can't wait to watch it again oh my gosh I'm gonna need a

[01:53:06] little bit of a break because I need some time to uh sit with it yeah sit with it gather my emotions

[01:53:12] it was pretty raw I know when I watched the second time right before we started recording oh goodness

[01:53:18] it was it was so pretty raw um couple other small notes um it's implied I don't think this is really

[01:53:27] too spoilery to say but it's implied but not known is is not 100 verified or confirmed

[01:53:34] that air axe was hatched from syrax so if that's true both Renea and syrax lost their sons at the same

[01:53:42] time oh breaks my damn heart can I make anyone any sadder yes it does yeah I hate that yeah um

[01:53:56] I read an interesting little piece about uh where ryan condol talks about um george's involvement

[01:54:06] and I I think it's important to remember how much he's involved but also um not as heavily

[01:54:12] involved is what some might think I thought he was a little bit more heavily involved not that

[01:54:14] he's not he's definitely given his sign off on the scripts the rough drafts he saw all the

[01:54:21] episodes before we did and said yep you're you're good um but ryan condol did say uh he said it's

[01:54:28] really hard for him to engage with us at the pace that we would need him to to weigh in on every

[01:54:32] single little decision the train's moving too fast but he always knows what's going on

[01:54:37] that's a thing that I promised him from the beginning might not always do exactly the thing

[01:54:42] that he wants me to do but we will always talk about it we will always have the discussion

[01:54:46] and I've honored that so it goes on saying condol makes it a point to keep

[01:54:53] him in the loop of the majority of creative processes martin agreed when and one of his

[01:54:57] blog posts right before the debut of the game of throne successor he mentioned that he had seen

[01:55:02] all 10 episodes um you know in the rough cuts he'd love them um he says house of the dragon

[01:55:08] he said is all I hoped it would be dark powerful visceral disturbing stunning to look at uh people

[01:55:15] are people with complex and very human characters brought to life by some truly amazing actors

[01:55:20] which of course is we know a big contrast to what happened with game of thrones that series but

[01:55:25] right just want to kind of throw that out there because I you know feel like again people's

[01:55:31] comments online and people are really kind of going off the rails with some of their comments

[01:55:36] just remember george has given a sign off on everything and that should be enough for everyone

[01:55:41] now I think so yeah um I had a list of offenses that everything team green has done to rinera

[01:55:49] I don't know if I need to repeat any of this I was having a moment I think I was being I was just

[01:55:56] very feeling Renea for everything that has been done to her and so I made a list I don't know

[01:56:02] if we need to I think we've talked about it um me if you want to say it I'll hear it I'm here

[01:56:08] this is just a condensed list or there could be more so if I missed anything feel free to

[01:56:12] point it out but uh let's see what is team green dendro nere they've harassed her and her family for

[01:56:16] 16 years of course you know keep continuously calling her children bastards uh they've killed Sir Harwin

[01:56:24] they stabbed her usurped her throne triggered her miscarriage and killed her son oh my gosh

[01:56:33] and possibly killed her father

[01:56:37] yeah at least daemon thinks so um right and you know I'm not here to like argue the morality of

[01:56:45] either side because there's everybody's going to do bad things so I'm not going to try and say that

[01:56:53] team blacks anymore um or has more uh moral high ground than anyone else but it's hard for me

[01:57:00] to look exactly like what exactly is Renea and her family done to allicent and her family

[01:57:08] versus what's been done so I feel like when you when you see Renea at the end and that look on

[01:57:14] her face think about all these things right and she's handled it all with a lot of grace so you

[01:57:23] know for this this to break the you know the straw that breaks the camel's back that's a big

[01:57:29] effing straw and especially all at once like she has no time to process um you know when she gets the

[01:57:36] news of her father's death uh that you know kind of triggers her miscarriage and losing the baby

[01:57:48] and learning that not only is her father died they've usurped her throne she loses her baby

[01:57:54] and then she loses her son all in the span in a very short time span you have no time to process any

[01:58:00] grief or any of this trauma um you you just have to keep moving forward and she's trying to like

[01:58:07] bury all of that but in that moment when she learns the the fate of of luke yeah so just I don't know

[01:58:15] if anyone needs to hear that it's but that's I think we all needed I think we all always

[01:58:22] need to hear it I mean it's a lot it's a right so anyway uh that's it for me all right well

[01:58:34] let's uh let's go into some listener feedback because we had some good feedback this week

[01:58:39] we always do I love our listeners honestly you guys bring it every week thank you so much

[01:58:45] I'm gonna miss all of you yes we're gonna have a long wait so um we need we need this to hold us over

[01:58:53] so I'll kick things off um Karen Stoll Medeiros says I've watched every Game of Thrones and House of

[01:59:01] the Dragon episode at least two to three times but I don't know when I'll be ready to watch that

[01:59:05] again as a book reader I knew what to expect and I felt like vomiting throughout almost the whole

[01:59:09] episode worrying about luke Reneira and Rainey's are amazing and I was so happy to see Lord

[01:59:16] Lord Corleys again being his badass self Lord Eric bringing the crown to Reneira was so moving

[01:59:23] very emotional episode so looking forward to the pod and book talk thanks thank you

[01:59:31] Megan O'Connell says I hate seeing the dragons die I knew it was coming I didn't know exactly

[01:59:37] how not a reader but I do listen to spoilers I had a lot of anxiety watching that scene and we

[01:59:42] have to wait too long for season two I know I agree Mae Omerdini says ah and the Dance of

[01:59:52] Dragons the heartbreak begins what an amazing episode and season my top moments that was

[01:59:58] the most dragons we've gotten in one episode the scene with Otto High Tower was great I

[02:00:05] loved how they brought that back he seemed to have a look of pride like how did you get that crown

[02:00:11] I thought it was interesting to see how level headed Reneira was versus how frantic Damon was

[02:00:15] in handling the situation he was out for blood and she wanted to get her ducks in order

[02:00:20] Rainey's was a boss I love seeing a woman who can put aside bad shit that happened to her

[02:00:24] and get behind another woman good point the boys are inexperienced at war they can't control

[02:00:31] their dragons and it leads to a tragic death that will change the course of everything thank you

[02:00:36] Rema Kristen and Grandmaster Renny your coverage and book talk was amazing I will miss listening

[02:00:41] to you guys and look forward to 2024 oh thank you so much thank you that was very kind

[02:00:49] uh I always mess up this name and I feel so bad Typhane the Balt says the look between

[02:00:59] Reneira and Rainey's during the Black Council especially after Lord Corliss knew uh renewed

[02:01:05] his oath those actresses those actors are so good I thought it illustrated so well the power of

[02:01:12] women to get the men hang on I thought it illustrated so well the power of women

[02:01:18] to get the men to abide to their aspiration while making them think it is them deciding

[02:01:24] the real power behind the valerian rally lies with Rainey's and the way she looks at Reneira

[02:01:32] it was like I got you girl that's how it's done I was a bit disappointed with the Storm's end scene

[02:01:39] as for once I thought it was more detailed in the book than on screen but I love the

[02:01:44] dragon fight reminded me of the long night ones the way it's sorry the way it's filmed

[02:01:53] amazing it had a star wars feel to it too quote and with his death the war of ravens and envoys

[02:01:59] and the marriage packs came to an end and the war of fire and blood began in earnest end quote

[02:02:06] can't wait for next season same

[02:02:11] Lindsay Schlick says okay I need that light from beneath the table especially for when I'm planning

[02:02:17] war that was amazing yes that scene where the good twin brought Reneira her father's crown

[02:02:25] was fantastic I declare him the eye candy of the show finally yes he is very handsome yeah

[02:02:35] I was so impressed when Damon crowned her and bowed I guess I should have known he'd

[02:02:39] fuck it up later by putting hands on her just when I was coming around on him he had to be a

[02:02:44] true shithead did anyone else notice badass reines in the background of half the scenes smirking

[02:02:50] never bowing I found her hilarious and absolutely fantastic this episode even though I knew what

[02:02:57] was coming that ending was just terrible I feel so bad for Luke and his betrothed she's such a

[02:03:03] happy cutie pie and always seemed so supportive this is terrible for her too I enjoy having a

[02:03:09] more fleshed out story seeing that Aiman might have regretted what turns out to be a terrible

[02:03:13] mistake I guess this will end Reneir's more tempered approach to war don't piss off mamas

[02:03:21] no I agree especially dragon mamas yeah no kidding yeah that was a really good point about

[02:03:25] Reneys we didn't really talk about that how and I kind of laughed too she's always in the background

[02:03:30] and everyone's bowing or kneeling bending the knee to Reneira as she's being crowned

[02:03:36] and she's like nope because she hasn't chosen sides yet right like she's waiting for Corleys and

[02:03:44] you know so but yeah she she kind of gets away with it because she hasn't chosen sides

[02:03:50] thanks Lindsay I think that she does choose sides but she's not going to really do anything until

[02:03:58] you know she knows that her husband's on board as well I do think she is probably in her mind

[02:04:04] knows which way she's leaning but I don't think she's going to formerly bend the knee or bow and

[02:04:12] things like that until Corleys until they have a chance to connect and talk yeah

[02:04:19] dude's been gone six years they got a lot to catch up on and they got a lot to talk about

[02:04:23] I know oh my gosh um thank you Lindsay um Alicia Stout says just when I thought I had a bad day

[02:04:35] boom nothing and I mean nothing in my life can ever top her near as bad day found out

[02:04:41] her father is dead gave birth to a stillborn which was so hard to watch to be honest

[02:04:46] cremated her baby became queen choked by her husband lost another child not sure about y'all

[02:04:54] but I would have had some serious anxiety or depression or stress I don't know but damn that

[02:04:59] girl can hold her shit together from mean Jawadi brings back the dragon music from Game of Thrones

[02:05:06] I loved hearing it again so being the shit mother Allison does do you think that she will

[02:05:12] punish Aamon for killing his nephew or nah? Alicia I love you that's so good yeah again

[02:05:22] I think that Allison's gonna be real mad she's probably not going to be thrilled considering

[02:05:29] you know it's it's not great all around for sure and if you've read the book then you know

[02:05:37] but again who knows what they'll take from the book or if it could be something completely

[02:05:42] different um right what happens but right yep that was really good Megan Dolores Rickleman says

[02:05:50] a stunning and tragic episode I especially love the details on and under the painted table and

[02:05:55] the shot of a vagar flying over Luke's dragon such a chilling way to demonstrate the massive

[02:06:01] size difference just wow ginger martina says 100% loving this series I was

[02:06:11] full of emotion and tears for Reneira she's such a good mother but what a horrific dark day

[02:06:17] the learn of her father's passing have a miscarriage be choked and ignored by her husband

[02:06:21] and then be crowned at her baby's funeral ugh I just don't have the words but I felt it deeply

[02:06:27] this is a tragic story Reneira has all the right stuff to be a good leader but she's

[02:06:32] surrounded by testosterone fueled men it's so alone but so strong I am not looking forward

[02:06:38] to the rest of her story also Damon is such a boy and a man's body grow up dude

[02:06:48] Lisa Edmondson Walker says oh that was hard to watch how much can one person lose in only a few

[02:06:54] days I had a bad feeling when I saw the much larger dragon looming but I was hoping it wasn't

[02:07:00] going to end that way it's going to be hard to wait so long for season two Brad Holt says

[02:07:08] probably an unpopular opinion but Reneira and company stole the driftmark thrown through lies

[02:07:13] and deception so isn't it just desserts for the throne to be stolen from her no okay no absolutely

[02:07:22] not Brad and I appreciate the unpopular opinion that you have however you're wrong because

[02:07:29] excuse me for getting emotional here but it's because the series and Coral is both consider them

[02:07:37] legitimate they have been legitimized or legitimate legitimized I have no words because I'm upset

[02:07:46] so if both of them if both of them consider them to be their true born family members then nobody

[02:07:54] else gets a say in this it's just the same as adoption surrogacy you know egg donation anything

[02:08:02] that we experience now it's the same as before Lenore could not produce he just couldn't so

[02:08:10] you know if somebody in a marriage can't produce a baby a lot of people go out and they find other

[02:08:16] ways to have children and to carry on their family line and this is how you do that because

[02:08:21] family doesn't have to always be DNA and blood so I do think that it's not a stolen

[02:08:34] it's not a stolen entity especially since who who was going to take it over like how did they

[02:08:40] wrong the greens by their decision making about driftmark like this this has nothing to do with

[02:08:47] allicent and the greens at all if I'm unless I'm wrong rima well I had actually replied to this comment

[02:08:59] oh you did well I actually was just a question honestly because I had just asked can you explain

[02:09:08] stole driftmark what do you mean by that because as what you just said Coral East named

[02:09:15] Luke his heir he he knows that by blood those are not his grandchildren he knows

[02:09:25] but he still chose to name Luke his heir that is his choice just you know so I'm

[02:09:35] I'm curious to know what that meant by stole driftmark no one stole driftmark Coral East knows

[02:09:43] the truth but he's still knowing that truth named Luke his heir and like you said

[02:09:50] they viscerus and choralysis all said true born these are my true born grandchildren

[02:10:01] that that's that's closed it in my opinion so I'm just right I don't yeah I don't know if

[02:10:07] there was a reply to that or not I didn't have a chance it was kind of while I was prepping and

[02:10:13] so I don't know but I have a very much you have a very diplomatic response I did not so

[02:10:20] no I just look I've said please forgive me Brad well I've said before and not that I'm saying

[02:10:26] that you did by any means but I do get very very passionate and I have tried to very much

[02:10:31] maintain because I I can I can definitely get strong and I'm trying to not do that so I'm

[02:10:40] like let's just ask a question can you explain more to me because I disagree

[02:10:48] but I appreciate that you express that opinion so anyway moving on Jody Morell says this episode

[02:11:00] was a roller coaster of pure emotion I almost would have preferred a glass case of emotion

[02:11:06] at least that's consistent

[02:11:13] um

[02:11:14] Sherry Moeford Moorford says this finale had me all over the place in my feels just watching

[02:11:20] Raniro reacting to everything with so much strength and grace I really enjoyed watching

[02:11:25] Rainey's through the episode as well especially after her badass move last episode she watches

[02:11:32] everything carefully and doesn't make any decisions until she's ready and feels confident

[02:11:36] in the right choice currently she is 100% my favorite character on this show

[02:11:42] Damon had me pissed off at him when he grabbed Ray I love the fact that she said Ray

[02:11:50] there is no excuse for it I have loved his character and still likely will but right now

[02:11:55] I'm really having to sort through my feelings on him because that was just wrong

[02:12:00] it feels like the smart and measured decisions on the black side were coming from the

[02:12:05] two badass women unfortunately I'm afraid that all may change next season considering what

[02:12:10] happened at the end of the episode we could literally go on and on about everything that

[02:12:14] happened in this episode that the podcast is only so long you can't wait to hear all your

[02:12:19] thoughts you know what it's long it's a very long podcast we're sorry yeah all all the apologies

[02:12:29] I don't know how to keep any of this shorter than what we do because honestly

[02:12:34] this could be five six hours honestly I feel like we're showing restraint we're being very much

[02:12:41] we're channeling Reneira we're showing restraint for us yes

[02:12:47] Nico Reese says RIP Luke loose and small boy all yeah so we have one message we got Steve

[02:13:04] this week which I'm very excited about Steve did leave us a message last week but it came a couple

[02:13:09] days late so I'm glad that he got it in on time this week so I'm gonna leave it to our live steving

[02:13:20] all right here we go house the dragon season finale oh hey what hey dragon cast this is Steve

[02:13:27] so Luke gets seasick and he's going to be lured to the tides uh I mean Damon's right

[02:13:31] she could have burned them all down and she didn't oh and now she's going into labor so

[02:13:37] we had a birth to begin the season we're gonna have a birth to end the season I'm I thought

[02:13:41] Coralus died is now they're saying the sea snake is alive is that Reneira's dragon we're seeing

[02:13:47] suffering along with her in when she's in pain oh I'm glad I don't have to watch this twice

[02:13:52] oh no oh it's still birth oh okay whose crown is that and which twin is this

[02:14:00] all these names from Game of Thrones the Brathian Stark someone that's supporting Durgari what are

[02:14:06] oh I'm confused whoa okay I know you're gonna explain all of that all those dragon talks

[02:14:12] and the 14 dragons and the three and the three wild dragons what oh you're drunken you

[02:14:20] sort of a cunt of a king wow Damon tell us how you really feel whoa Damon grabbing

[02:14:28] Reneira's throat like that what's up she really does look scared of him right now

[02:14:33] okay so I guess Coralus is alive here he is wow lord Coralus coming to see Reneira directly

[02:14:39] himself oh the boys are pretty smart dragons can fly faster than ravens and they're more convincing

[02:14:45] now what is Damon doing he can't claim a second dragon can he okay so this is Luke coming to

[02:14:51] me with somebody oh and what's his name amen oh no Luke I don't think you can beat

[02:14:58] amen and say with the ipad amen with a duel oh that was a close one I don't know lord what

[02:15:07] which one is this guy now sending Luke back to his dragon hmm oh is that amen on his dragon

[02:15:13] behind Luke in his dragon are we gonna see a dragon fight oh man an amen dragon is huge

[02:15:19] oh did he just bite him in half oh will someone just drew first blood in this war and that look

[02:15:29] on Reneira's face wow can't wait for next season thanks Steve Steve um I really like listening to

[02:15:40] what his reactions are because I'm just like oh buddy oh buddy I know get to the next one

[02:15:47] wait till you get to the next one it's such it's such an adventure um I feel like we're kind of on

[02:15:53] that ride too and if it helps you know look I certainly don't have everyone memorized I know

[02:15:58] everyone struggles with with names and who's who and you know we've got like two agons and

[02:16:03] stuff and all these dragons I have charts I I have I have I'm looking at a chart right now

[02:16:08] of the dragons um in this era and the dragons on team black the dragons the greens um have

[02:16:16] one their side the wild dragons and the unclaimed or writerless dragons um so that's how I help keep

[02:16:22] things straight I also have the Targaryen family tree uh chart so it yeah it helps that's the only way

[02:16:31] I can keep things straight so don't feel bad for not keeping who's who green yeah it takes a lot of

[02:16:38] work it takes a lot of work it does it does plus I'm just always immersed in it as well so

[02:16:45] that's that's one thing when you live and breathe it but that was great yeah the always appreciate Steve's

[02:16:51] voice mails it's it's always an adventure I feel like I'm kind of reliving it a little bit

[02:16:58] a lot of great feedback thank you everyone um for all the um engagement with us

[02:17:06] and all of that feedback I know there's a lot of opinions and we appreciate hearing all of them

[02:17:13] and gosh it's gonna be a long wait we hope you guys are with us when season two comes back

[02:17:23] yes remember us family yeah come find us okay and here we are for our final book talk of

[02:17:34] season one it's a very sad state of affairs but we will press on as usual we have Rima and myself

[02:17:43] and then fresh from the citadel riding on dragonback maybe uh is uh absolutely arch master arch master

[02:17:51] ready is joining us for the last book talk section of the season welcome ready thank you I am going to

[02:17:58] try to repress my sobs so that we can get through this book talk yeah I uh I just had the seasons

[02:18:05] over I just finished my second watch and I was a way more emotional during second watch than I

[02:18:12] was first watch by a mile me too me too well I think the shock yeah I was in shock yeah the first

[02:18:19] watch the second watch then it all settled with me Renny where would you like to start well first

[02:18:26] of all I'm going for those of you who maybe haven't joined us uh all season long we do book

[02:18:31] talk in two different sections first section is that we talk about the book related to the

[02:18:36] specific episode then I give a super annoying alarm sound and we tell you that we are going to

[02:18:43] the book and the show as a whole and that's when we talk about the entire book and the entire

[02:18:50] everything so if you don't want to hear any of it turn it off now and we'll catch you next time

[02:18:57] if you want to hear just the show to the book specifically to this episode come along and join

[02:19:03] us and then when you hear my super annoying alarm you'll know to either turn it off or continue

[02:19:09] listening um should be a really good book talk this week so I invite you to join us and I'm

[02:19:16] going to turn it over now to Archmister Renny um and she's gonna guide us through our discussion

[02:19:22] ready to go I'm ready to go thank you awesome so I want to start by saying that I have a

[02:19:29] really a much more complicated relationship to this episode than I have to any of the other episodes

[02:19:36] on first watch as I was watching I kept saying no no that's not how it goes and uh it was only

[02:19:46] listening to Ryan Condol's interview in the official HBO podcast hey HBO choose us for season

[02:19:53] two yes we're very good throw our hats in the ring so it was only listening to his interview

[02:20:02] on that podcast that made me see how very much in keeping this episode is with the show version

[02:20:09] of events that is focused on revealing the horrors of the patriarchy and how brilliantly

[02:20:19] the show portrays Reneira managing the power that she now has and doesn't have um my first reaction

[02:20:28] was that they had fallen into that cliche of women being peacemakers and not allowing Reneira the

[02:20:36] rage that she has in the book but then I saw it differently and realized she's not being a

[02:20:42] peacemaker or a conciliator in that cliche stereotypical way she's just being rational in how she proceeds

[02:20:51] for she's being her father yeah I think she's got she is on your side of that she got from viscera

[02:20:58] yes that's right um so I want to I want to read a quote from what Ryan Condol said in the

[02:21:07] podcast because it's very interesting about the way that he sees the relationship between

[02:21:14] the book and the show uh as well so he says he's always wanted this show to act as a companion

[02:21:21] piece to the book and the book as a companion piece to the show in a way that most adaptations

[02:21:28] cannot coexist happily and peacefully I really think these two the show in the book can

[02:21:35] because I think probably the people who will enjoy this the most are the people who have read

[02:21:40] the book and see the show and aren't I would say in the nicest way possible aren't devoted to one or

[02:21:47] the other and that can just appreciate them both so here's an advertisement everybody read the

[02:21:52] book read the book read the book that was an interjection that wasn't Ryan Condol that was me

[02:21:58] I think we've got another convert this week so yay oh excellent yeah uh so uh

[02:22:04] Ryan Condol says that the two exist in harmony with one another because the book is a historical

[02:22:09] account written by people that did not live through that time unless you believe mushroom

[02:22:17] the book is a document that got some things right and some things wrong the show is going to be

[02:22:23] this version of the objective truth so in the show canon the same show universe that

[02:22:30] Game of Thrones exists in this is the objective truth of what happened at least in the scenes that

[02:22:37] we're choosing to put on screen to show you the book is a history book it's written by all men

[02:22:43] as Kristen has been saying all season it's written by all men most of them are if not green

[02:22:49] supporters green leaning history itself is a piece of propaganda oftentimes I think this

[02:22:57] book is no different and that is the sort of thematic approach that we have taken

[02:23:01] the show enhances the experience of reading the book and the book enhances the show

[02:23:07] and I think that's exactly what they've done they've said wait a minute what if this story

[02:23:12] were not being told by green leaning propagandist men how might it look how what might we see

[02:23:20] Reneara doing and as soon as I heard that I thought score yes I'm I'm made my piece with

[02:23:29] this the choices in this episode gosh I think that that's such a smart way to do this too because if

[02:23:36] if you're two male show runners as Miguel Sapochnick and Ryan Condol are

[02:23:42] and you set out from the very beginning telling everybody that will listen that this is really

[02:23:49] going to focus on what the patriarchy has done to these women smashing the patriarchy I mean you

[02:23:56] really want to sink your teeth into those themes right but you have to come to you have to come

[02:24:04] to some sort of realization that it is written by men that these are written not only by men

[02:24:11] but by green leaning as you said running men right of old town that then and land of high tower so

[02:24:20] it's so smart to view this as a companion piece and how lucky is Ryan Condol to have a companion

[02:24:28] piece trajectory rather than the game of thrones adaptation where the book was a wonderful

[02:24:37] adaptation the show was a wonderful adaptation to the book and then all of a sudden just egos and

[02:24:46] forgive me the patriarchy decided you know that they knew better and destroyed it on the way out

[02:24:53] right and so I love it that Ryan Condol is saying look there it is going to be different we're

[02:24:59] going to have this human element that's female centered in its perspective and we're going

[02:25:04] to have you compare it and think critically about the source material that is a compilation of all

[02:25:12] different sources and then compiled by one person who gets to pick and choose what goes in it by the

[02:25:19] way I mean you know it's kind of like when when you think about and this is just because of

[02:25:25] of I don't know of another popular text that that did this the bible is that way right the bible

[02:25:34] was written by men the bible was the stories were compiled by men so you know the people that put

[02:25:42] together the bible are the ones that decided that they got to dictate the story and probably

[02:25:48] that in the inner go ahead i'm sorry i'm really sorry i'm sorry i think you cut out for a

[02:25:53] minute and I thought you'd stopped sorry but i cut out a section of the quote from Ryan Condol

[02:25:59] where he does talk about the bible and how it was written yes at least 40 years after the events

[02:26:07] that it recounts and he says that would be like trying to remember in detail something that happened

[02:26:12] in 1982 and that um that's exactly the same as fire and blood is written and so he

[02:26:22] he did also cite the bible as you're citing as another example of that kind of text yeah I mean

[02:26:30] there's a lot of history texts that do that right I mean you know you look at you look at anything

[02:26:34] of people that are trying to piece together what happened um you know at the dawn of time or

[02:26:40] in you know any of the ancient world modern history books even in the modern books that was

[02:26:45] left out of our modern history I mean even if you look at I never learned in school I mean yeah

[02:26:50] I mean if you look at slavery you you know that you know a lot of slavery was written by

[02:26:55] the the the white perspective right and it's only now that we're starting to get the black

[02:27:01] perspective right and that changes the whole story so I love it that um that the book

[02:27:08] and the show are meant to be viewed as companion pieces because looking back on it that's how I

[02:27:16] totally regarded uh regarded it and I didn't even realize it until you just said that quote so

[02:27:22] that's really cool that's awesome yeah yeah I think so too okay so diving in um so it's

[02:27:29] very hard to say how many pages this episode covered because it skipped over a whole chunk

[02:27:36] of things that we are going to see in season two but they've just told the story so they're

[02:27:43] in the book there are several things that happen simultaneously but you have to read

[02:27:46] about them one at a time right and so they've just reversed the order of the telling and so

[02:27:52] we will see the other events in season two so when the episode starts we're on page 402

[02:28:00] of the book and when the episode ends we're on page 422 but but it entirely skips over pages 412

[02:28:08] to 417 so I really think it's about 17 pages that they covered in this episode which is a lot

[02:28:14] because the previous record for number of pages that they covered in an episode was 12

[02:28:18] so they're really accelerating the pace of um how much of the book they're covering

[02:28:25] in each episode so just as a reminder in the book Rainies was not in King's Landing when

[02:28:34] Aegon II was crowned she was on Driftmark with Corleys who had long since recovered from the illness

[02:28:41] that had brought on the Driftmark succession crisis and also he had not gone back to the

[02:28:47] war in the Stepstones so in the book version it is not Rainies who brings the news of the

[02:28:54] coup to Dragonstone it is um Sir Stefan Darklyn who is the Kingsguard Knight in the book who steals

[02:29:04] Viserys's crown and brings it to Rhaenyra in the show Sir Stefan Darklyn and Sir Lauren Marbrandt

[02:29:11] are the two Kingsguard who are already on Dragonstone uh and they're the ones who Damon

[02:29:20] asks for loyalty on Pain of Dragonfire something which does not happen in the book

[02:29:28] so at any rate it's Sir Stefan who brings the news of the coup along with the crown

[02:29:33] and it is this news which sends Rhaenyra into labor a month prematurely and the show plays

[02:29:40] this very very differently from the book uh in the book she's in labor for three days

[02:29:46] the news of the coup drove her into a black fury and her rage brought on the early birth as if

[02:29:54] quote as if the babe inside her were angry too and fighting to get out she shrieked curses during

[02:30:01] labor uh quote calling down the wrath of the gods upon her half brothers and the queen

[02:30:07] and detailing the torments she would inflict upon them end quote she cursed the child too

[02:30:13] according to Mushroom who was there he was uh on Dragonstone nodding things landing

[02:30:20] shouting quote monster monster get out get out get out third time all in caps end quote

[02:30:28] which she did do and she didn't say monster she did say get out get out i said that during my

[02:30:34] she said monster i'll say in three days labor i'd probably be saying i know she was pulling that

[02:30:41] head out too i was like what are you doing um yeah so you know i want to say something about

[02:30:50] one thing i'm really impressed with with this show is that they i can't think of a you know another

[02:30:57] science fiction or fantasy show ever or any kind of show really that has just unabashedly

[02:31:02] showed so much about female bodily functions when she sticks her hand under her dress and

[02:31:07] brings it back out all bloody you know how often do you see something like that but it was very real

[02:31:13] and very impactful i thought i agree but anyway i don't think she said monster in the show i think

[02:31:20] she just said get out yeah no she didn't say monster yeah um so the baby was a stillborn

[02:31:28] monster quote twisted and malformed with a hole in her chest where her heart should have been

[02:31:34] and a stubby scaled tail now it's a mushroom who gives us that this description um however there's

[02:31:44] great there's precedent for this and there's subsequent things for this um there are there's

[02:31:49] a great fan theory that in ancient valeria the valerians not the valerians the valerians

[02:31:56] from valeria um actually somehow did some sort of magical genetic mixing so that they are literally

[02:32:07] blood of the dragon that they have some actual kinship to dragons which is how they controlled them

[02:32:14] and that is why targaryens have a history of having deformed children that have dragon-like

[02:32:22] features and where we've seen this before is with rago the stillborn child of denaris targaryen in

[02:32:31] game of thrones who uh it is described as having distinctly dragon-like features

[02:32:40] before we started recording reman i were talking about we we both freeze framed and looked at the

[02:32:46] baby to see if they gave it a tail and uh we're pretty sure they did not um i think that they actually

[02:32:53] right alluded to it though because i saw that the back of the baby the back of the baby was

[02:32:59] like narrowing and we only saw one foot a one foot yeah um when when when she came out and i'm

[02:33:08] assuming they kept her as a she yes they never said anything about that uh oh however i did hear

[02:33:18] that there was dialogue translated into valerian um by the creator of the valerian language that

[02:33:27] was not actually used in the show uh so let me read the next the next line from the book and

[02:33:33] yeah because renera names the stillborn daughter visenya of course she names her visenya yes of course

[02:33:40] it's visenya and she says she was my only daughter and they killed her they stole my crown and murdered

[02:33:49] my daughter and they shall answer for it um so the the line i don't have the exact line um

[02:33:57] um but it it was something like um uh she she would her name was visenya she was my only daughter

[02:34:08] and she was sent to us as an augury from the gods as a warning so they were gonna have

[02:34:17] renera say something about her being a girl and being her only daughter but she was gonna

[02:34:23] say it in valerian uh but they didn't they either cut that line or they never you know before they

[02:34:30] filmed it or after they filmed it but it did exist so it was in a draft of the script earlier so

[02:34:36] yes it was a girl that would have been an amazing and i mean i i already think that you know just

[02:34:41] her staring and into the camera you know at the very end silently was perfection but it would

[02:34:48] have been awesome also if she said that in valerian yes and she added on and they murdered my son attached

[02:34:54] to that you know yeah that would have been a really like a factual hunch to the season yeah but you

[02:35:01] know also her nonverbal acting is excellent so i mean their nonverbal acting is excellent

[02:35:07] renera's nonverbal emotion is wonderful i'm sorry yeah yeah yeah um so as i was saying earlier i think

[02:35:20] and um as i think christin you said that um renera is more like visaries i think that's exactly what

[02:35:27] they're doing is they're trying to make her a more peaceful ruler like visaries um which is what

[02:35:32] draws reynice to her side in the show um uh but in the book renera is just all about stopping this

[02:35:42] usurpation um christin i uh in the main part of the podcast last last week i heard you struggling

[02:35:50] with usurpation so just usurpation usurpation i think i said i think i said about a hundred

[02:35:58] different ways to say it i was like one of them had to be right yeah so in the book renera is just

[02:36:08] you know enraged and wanting nothing except to stop the usurpation so she calls that she calls the

[02:36:17] meeting of what the book calls the black council to distinguish it from the green council and she

[02:36:23] presides over it and then a lot of the dialogue in the show is directly verbatim out of the book when

[02:36:32] daemon talks about the numbers of the forces they have and the names of the houses of their

[02:36:38] probable allies uh that just comes straight out of the book uh corleys i was so pleased yes it

[02:36:44] was great with how much they used yeah they used a lot um corleys was already there he didn't

[02:36:49] have to make a dramatic entrance because nobody thought he was dead at this point and luke is not

[02:36:55] having to have worries about inheriting driftmark prematurely because corleys is you know healthy

[02:37:02] um he's old though and he says that although he has grown old he is clinging to life quote

[02:37:09] like a drowning sailor clinging to the wreckage of a sunken ship mayhaps the seven have

[02:37:15] preserved me for this one last fight and reines is there with them her black hair remember in the

[02:37:22] book she has black hair because her mother's a baratheon yep is streaked with white um and yet

[02:37:30] she is as fierce and fearless as she had been at 22 reines is amazing this is reines is amazing

[02:37:38] the queen who never was just freaking and it's amazing this is the part of the book where the

[02:37:44] the nickname the queen who never was comes from its mushroom who calls her the queen who never was

[02:37:50] and mushroom pans a funny line um he says what did visceris ever have that she did not

[02:37:58] a little sausage is that all that takes to be a king let mushroom rule then my sausage is thrice

[02:38:05] the size of his i remember that that made me giggle so hard when i read that first time that's

[02:38:14] funny and and you know it's it's true just just because what you got between your legs doesn't mean

[02:38:20] you're any any more fit to rule you know so he's absolutely right yep um so then the black

[02:38:28] council talks about all the advantages that the green have in greens have including all the

[02:38:34] symbols of legitimacy that agon has the iron throne the conquerors crown and the sword

[02:38:40] they don't say anything about the dagger because daggers not a thing in the book at this point

[02:38:47] then they discuss renais advantages including the oaths that everyone has sworn when she

[02:38:53] went and she was named air um and the pro popularity she'd had when she was known as

[02:38:59] the realms delight when she was young but then the male green leading writers of this book say

[02:39:10] you know that many many suitors sought after her when she was the realms delight but

[02:39:16] the question of how many would still fight for her now that she was a woman wed her body aged

[02:39:22] and thickened by six childbirths was a question none could answer

[02:39:30] uh

[02:39:32] and yeah so you know it just so many i rule yes exactly um so then they also count among their

[02:39:40] advantages the wealth of house valerian the valerian fleets and prince daemon's experience

[02:39:47] of warfare which is greater than that of all their foes combined and dragons so it's maester

[02:39:56] jurardus um who points out that uh agon also has dragons and this is what i i i miss from the show

[02:40:06] i understand why they changed it but i love the way eve best the actor who plays renais speaks

[02:40:11] and i would have just loved to hear her speak these lines renais says we have more can can

[02:40:18] you just picture with me for a moment eve best as renais saying we have more

[02:40:24] her i can because i really do love her uh i think she's a fantastic actress i think she's

[02:40:30] doing a fantastic job as renais so yes i can visualize and hear that perfect you hear her

[02:40:35] so they give the line i'm sorry did you hear the um her being interviewed or doing her piece in

[02:40:42] the afterwards in the inside the episode and her voice was so much different it was almost a little

[02:40:48] yeah skier yeah so i love it when when actors change their voices just a little bit i think it's

[02:40:56] just awesome go on i i just needed to say it yes yes um so they give that line to daemon in the show

[02:41:08] and uh um in the book they the narrative points out that renais had been a dragon rider longer

[02:41:17] than anyone else at the council she and mayleys have been together longer than any of the other

[02:41:26] bonded dragon and rider pairs um and she's the one not daemon who counts off the dragons

[02:41:34] and and she says all of ours are larger and stronger but for vegar

[02:41:40] um dragons thrive best here on dragon stone uh so she counts out the greens dragons agon

[02:41:50] sunfire aamons vegar helena's dream fire daeron's tesarian and ryan con condol has a lot of georgia

[02:42:00] r martin confirmed and now ryan condol has confirmed that daeron will be in the show in

[02:42:05] season two um and that so that makes four dragons of fighting size for the for the greens uh helena's

[02:42:13] twins have hatchlings and her youngest son has an egg so that's the total of the dragons that the

[02:42:19] greens have among the blacks daemon has caraxies uh raniere has syrax jace has vermax luke luke's

[02:42:30] aerax joffreys tyraxies and agon the younger has storm cloud although storm cloud has not yet

[02:42:37] been ridden young dragon not yet old enough to be ridden um and young visceris has an egg which

[02:42:43] she carries about with him everywhere but it has not hatched um bella has moon dancer also not

[02:42:49] yet ridden a young dragon and rena has an egg from syrax's latest clutch the reason she

[02:42:57] doesn't have a dragon is because her first egg had hatched a broken thing which had died within hours

[02:43:04] and one of things uh that many readers of the books have pointed out is that syrax seems to

[02:43:13] produce a clutch of eggs every time rena is pregnant so it's the bond between the dragon

[02:43:18] and the rider there's so many theories about the targaryen women and the like at least

[02:43:26] right now in the time of this targaryen history there's more dragons than there ever has been

[02:43:31] and by the time we get further in history to where like we get catch up with the game of throne show

[02:43:37] and there's like none until danie um there's a theory about the targaryen women and dragons

[02:43:45] and how dragons seem to thrive along with targaryen women interesting interesting yeah

[02:43:52] there's there's more to that i don't have it in front of me but i've read it and again it's it's

[02:43:57] just again like a theory if you look at the you know the dragons and targaryen women and pregnancies

[02:44:03] kind of like what you were saying that it's it seems to be tied together interesting that can't

[02:44:08] be in that can't be on accident no nothing in these books are accidental that's specific

[02:44:15] that's right an accident and so then the the the last of the dragons that has a rider is

[02:44:24] reynice's maleace the red queen who had quote grown lazy but remained fearsome when roused and

[02:44:31] quote and then there's six other dragons that live on dragonstone sea smoke who was lanors

[02:44:40] um vermouth or who is the dragon we saw daemon uh singing a valyrian lullaby to

[02:44:46] i was that was the best jaharis's dragon yes vermax had been king jaharis's and has not had

[02:44:53] a rider since jaharis died 30 years ago he's just been chilling out just chilling yep and also

[02:45:00] silverwing who had been queen ala sands dragon um who also um hasn't had a rider since queen

[02:45:08] ala sands death and then the three wild dragons um sheep stealer gray ghost and the cannibal

[02:45:16] oh god i want to see cannibals so bad and reynice says that if they find it's reynice who says this

[02:45:22] that if they find riders for those six then they will have 12 dragons even without um

[02:45:29] storm cloud the young the young dragon who hasn't been ridden yet uh and reynice says

[02:45:35] that is how we shall win this war i did like the way that daemon like wrapped it all up though

[02:45:42] and at the end he's like and then you know all of this is wrapped up by by the next moonfall or

[02:45:48] something like that like he's just let's do this like yep yeah plan execute yeah um so at this

[02:45:55] there's a weird thing in the show which i think is a mistake because uh in the show reyniris says

[02:46:02] this very odd thing to daemon she says none of our dragons have been to war but caraxies daemon's dragon

[02:46:10] in both the book and the show has the most battle experience next to vagar well and see

[02:46:15] smoke daemon took it took him to the stepstones and in the show but not in the book um sea smoke

[02:46:22] was also in battle in the stepstones so it's really weird that reyniris says that

[02:46:27] because they're in show there are two dragons that have battle experience and

[02:46:34] have been to war and so i don't know why reyniris says none of our dragons have been to war i'm

[02:46:38] wondering if that's like reynirah the mother that is speaking because she's knowing that her

[02:46:42] children who are also dragon riders will like are being counted as going to war and maybe she

[02:46:50] doesn't see you know daemon as a part of that group in that moment such a generous interpretation

[02:46:59] christin i think it's just a mistake okay i i think it it might be yeah um because yeah caraxies

[02:47:07] does have outside of vagar which is on unfortunately yeah the green side um does have and i think

[02:47:16] very well known even in the show i mean it's talked about quite sensibly in the book

[02:47:21] but i think even in the show it's quite clear how battle hardened daemon and caraxies is

[02:47:26] but i wonder i do think it was a little bit of an error on her part but i wonder if it was maybe

[02:47:31] a little drop little nugget of information for what comes later at the end between vagar

[02:47:40] and arax it may be yeah aamond you know saying that you know they're dragons and arax being a part

[02:47:47] of their dragons not having that right experience because i think that definitely plays into that

[02:47:53] confrontation there yeah i think so again maybe i'm being a little generous too i

[02:47:59] i think it was a little bit of an error but i'm just like well trying to figure out what

[02:48:03] yeah what the purpose was yeah so both renera and reynice uh are going for war without hesitation

[02:48:14] in fire and blood the book um and uh after reynice says this is how we will win this war

[02:48:22] about the dragons then lord keltegar urges her to fly to king's landing at once and reduce it

[02:48:30] to ash and bone and it's core lease who answers this and he says how will that serve us we want to

[02:48:37] rule the city not burn it to the ground so then lord keltegar says that the usurper will have to

[02:48:43] meet dragons with dragons and um the nine dragons of the blacks will overwhelm the usurpers for

[02:48:50] and then renera says at what cost three of the dragons would be ridden by her sons

[02:48:58] and it wouldn't be nine against four because she wasn't yet strong enough to ride

[02:49:03] and as for silver wing vermithorne sea smoke who would ride them you my lord she asks lord keltegar

[02:49:12] so it would be five against four and one of the four would be vagar so there would actually

[02:49:17] be no advantage and daemon agrees daemon says dragons can kill dragons and they have

[02:49:25] any maester who has ever studied the history of valeria can tell you that

[02:49:30] and he suggests that renera have a core rage coronation she hasn't been crowned yet at this

[02:49:35] point in the book and then they'll send out ravens calling the lords to declare allegiance to

[02:49:40] their two true queen daemon says we must fight this war with words before we go to battle

[02:49:49] and then the rest goes down exactly the same as in the show the book and in the show are

[02:49:54] the same here they decide that daemon will lead an assault on heron hall the valarion fleet will

[02:50:01] blockade king's landing in the gullet which is a waterway leading to the river that flows by

[02:50:11] king's landing while reines patrols the the sky with her dragon and when they talk about sending

[02:50:17] ravens to their possible allies jace suggests that he and luke should go as messengers uh jace says

[02:50:24] our uncle calls us strongs but when our uncle he means agon the second who was just crowned

[02:50:31] uh the usurper our uncle calls us strong but when the lord see us on dragonback they will

[02:50:38] know that for a lie only targaryens ride dragons mushroom says that core lease insisted that the

[02:50:47] three boys were valarians quote yet he smiled as he said it with pride in his voice and even

[02:50:55] young joffrey volunteered to ride his dragon tyraxies to join his brothers but rinera said no

[02:51:02] oh poor joffrey and by the way it's still a baby i know baby boy um yeah in the in the book the must

[02:51:11] not be meeting in the room with the painted table because when daemon suggests that they need to

[02:51:16] take heron hall he shows them a map the text says he shows them a map so they're not in the

[02:51:20] painted table room that painted table so much i need it i need it so bad oh my gosh yeah who's

[02:51:28] who who can we get to commission that and how much is that i can't even believe that that table turned

[02:51:33] on this entire time and we didn't know who who didn't tell stanice and no one told danie so

[02:51:42] when that went up my husband and i were like wow like at the same time and our kids because

[02:51:48] we live in a small camper right our kids are behind the door they go whoop was your dragon what

[02:51:53] was it the table just as cool that was so cool when it and yeah it was very cool candles i know

[02:52:03] and slid them under the table and i was just like oh i can't speak amazing

[02:52:11] so they hold a coronation the next day and daemon crowns rinera same as he does in the show

[02:52:17] and he takes the title protector of the realm in the show he gives that title to rinera

[02:52:23] and rinera names jace prince of dragon stone and heir to the iron throne her first act as queen is

[02:52:29] to declare serato and queen allison to traitors and rebels as for agon the elder and helena

[02:52:38] rinera declares that they've been led astray by the council of evil men and if they come to

[02:52:43] dragon stone and bend the knee she'll forgive them quote for they are my own blood of my own blood

[02:52:49] and no man or woman is as accursed as the kin slayer very important point that she's making there

[02:52:58] then when agon the second hears about rinera's coronation he declares written rinera and daemon

[02:53:03] guilty of high trees and then he says he wants them dead but cooler heads on the green council

[02:53:10] advised aparle agon refused until allison and helena talk him into it helena is a member of the green

[02:53:18] council so i think that's interesting um but they don't a very different helena but they do not send

[02:53:27] otto otto high tower they send grand maester or while uh accompanied by among others ser aric

[02:53:34] with an a and the offer that he brings is the same as in the show pretty much word for word

[02:53:41] rinera's reply is also the same um and then after rinera's reply or while either gives

[02:53:49] a learned dis disputation on and all law or he pissed his ropes depending on which source you

[02:53:57] believe i don't know if syrax is sitting there behind i might be pissing my ribs

[02:54:05] either way uh rinera took his grand maester's chain from him and gave it to her maester gerardus

[02:54:11] and then she told the envoys tell my half brother that i will have my throne or i will have his head

[02:54:17] so what they do in the show instead is have her take otto high tower's hand of the king

[02:54:22] pin and and toss it away um instead of taking the maester's change and giving it to her maester

[02:54:31] that gave me um really big taryon and denaris vibes in the final episode of season eight

[02:54:38] except you know it was him that took off his own pin and threw it to the side but just the

[02:54:44] volatility volatility i can't say volatility thank you i'm really i'm really smart i promise um

[02:54:53] um when she takes when it the two scenes just seemed very parallel and similar in in

[02:55:01] yes they do yeah so eric and arick are standing on that bridge on opposite sides and we're told

[02:55:11] that long after the dance of the dragons was done a singer from tarth composed a ballad called

[02:55:17] farewell my brother about the last meeting between arick and eric in the song each brother tries to

[02:55:24] persuade the other to change sides failing they exchange declarations of love and part

[02:55:30] knowing when next they meet it will be as enemies so here's the point where there's a big change

[02:55:43] from the book because they skip over a bunch of events that are gonna happen in season two

[02:55:50] in order to end with the dragon fight which i think was absolutely the right choice for where to end

[02:55:56] this season um do we want to go over what happened in between or do we want to just save

[02:56:02] no not no no no no not not in not in this section until not before the annoying alarm

[02:56:10] because there's super lots of spoilers there um so quote the tragedy that befell luceres valerian

[02:56:18] at storms end was never planned on this all sources agree and many still hoped that the

[02:56:25] question of succession might be resolved peacefully the stranger had other plans and remember the

[02:56:32] stranger is the god of death in the faith of the seven yes so the way that this plays out

[02:56:40] in the book is is quite different from how it plays out in the show um so lord boros baratheon

[02:56:48] is the son of the lord the prior prior lord baratheon who had voted for reynice in the

[02:56:55] council of 101 um and when amon was dispatched to woo one of his daughters he didn't know what

[02:57:03] kind of reception he would get since boros was known as quote the wind that rages and howls

[02:57:09] and blows this way and that so um uh amon gets a fine reception and uh they uh have feasts and hunts

[02:57:26] and and jousting so amon was there for a while boros is willing to entertain his suit and tells

[02:57:33] him to choose whichever of his four daughters that amon prefers and lord boros says casse

[02:57:40] oldest she'll be the first to flower but floris is prettier and if it's a clever wife you want

[02:57:46] there's maris um he says that reynirah should not take house baratheon support for granted

[02:57:54] that he quote had nothing against women and quote but if he ever had a son storms end would pass

[02:57:59] to him rather than to his daughters so why should the iron throne be any different um and

[02:58:06] lord boros is just disgustingly patronizing he says when reynirah learns that she's um lost the

[02:58:14] baratheon support he would tell her himself that she should bow down to her brother that quote his

[02:58:20] own girls would fight with each other sometimes the way girls do but he saw it to that they always

[02:58:26] made peace afterward why would you yuck anybody who rides a dragon with that kind of disrespect

[02:58:33] why no i know i know freaking disrespectful yeah tell that don't tell that to reynirah tell it to

[02:58:39] her dragon i would never say and if somebody had control over a huge dragon i'd be like oh you're

[02:58:46] cool man you're the coolest person i've ever met well this is how agon kind of that's right

[02:58:54] yes that's right so there's no record of which daughter amon chose except that it was not maris

[02:59:01] um and so when luke arrives in a storm just like in the show vegar is the first to sense his coming

[02:59:08] she struck terror into the guards on the battlements when she woke with a sudden roar that shook the

[02:59:12] very foundations of the castle the roar scared erracks but luke forced him down to land

[02:59:20] when luke walks into the great hall amon says quote look at this sad little creature my lord

[02:59:27] little luke strong the bastard you are wet bastard is it raining or did you piss yourself in fear

[02:59:34] end quote luke ignores amon only talks to lord boros saying he has a message from his mother the

[02:59:41] queen amon says you mean the horror of dragon stone and he tries to snatch the letter from luke

[02:59:48] but lord boros commands his knights to intervene and bring him the letter then same as in the

[02:59:54] show um he has his maester read the letter because he can't read and he asks luke which of

[03:00:01] his daughters he will choose to marry luke says he's betrothed same as in the show and he starts

[03:00:07] to leave and amon rips off his eyepatch to reveal the sapphire they did the sapphire

[03:00:15] yes that looks so cool it was great but it was so cool it was over the top but it's from

[03:00:22] the books right so it's like it's not like it was like totally from the book no yeah it looked good

[03:00:29] yep yeah it did yeah i'm so i wish amon was on our side we'd get that i know i really do i like i like

[03:00:37] amon i know i'm not supposed to i like amon i like show amon way more than i like book amon

[03:00:46] that that asshole you know he in the book you know i could not get on his side at all but uh no

[03:00:55] show side i'm you know it makes you feel just it makes you feel things at least for me same with

[03:01:00] alicent but uh yeah book amon can yeah fall off it so cliff yep yep so then amon demands that luke

[03:01:11] put out one of his own eyes and lord boros says no no no fighting under my roof and yeah his guards

[03:01:18] escort luke out to the was dragon and luke takes off and here's where the book in the show really

[03:01:25] diverge um in the book um the line is quote and there it might have ended but for the girl maris

[03:01:35] end quote she was angry at amon for choosing one of her prettier sisters over her uh and she says

[03:01:43] to amon was it one of your eyes he took or one of your balls i am so glad excuse me i'm so glad

[03:01:52] you chose my sister i want a husband with all of his parts and so that drives amon then to go

[03:01:59] after luke so the book those green leaning men who wrote it are blaming a woman for what amon does

[03:02:11] i'm so glad that they left that out of the show yeah they left out boros's line too about

[03:02:19] because he did say not not under my roof you know i'll have no fighting under my roof so that was

[03:02:24] there but he did leave out the part um or they left out the part in the show where he says whatever

[03:02:30] you do outside of that's right it's none of my business yeah none of my business yeah but he was

[03:02:36] right because you know you're supposed to have protection especially like as a messenger or a

[03:02:41] guest you have i mean we saw that in game of thrones too that's something that's why like

[03:02:45] longer fray spoiler alert the red wedding okay you know yeah there was so many you're supposed

[03:02:50] to have protections so technicality luke is not actually entitled to guest right there

[03:02:56] because he didn't have anything to eat or drink well that's true you have to break even as a

[03:03:00] messenger you have to break red it you have to yep well as he has he has like diplomatic

[03:03:06] immunity as a as a messenger and that's what boros is concerned about because he's come as

[03:03:11] an envoy and envoys are not supposed to be harmed but he doesn't technically have guest right

[03:03:17] so in right yeah when um makes sense in the original game of thrones book and i think in the show too

[03:03:25] when um uh they they go to the phrase to negotiate getting across the twins in the first place

[03:03:35] katlin it says over and over to um rob make sure that they give you a bread and salt or

[03:03:45] bread and salt right make sure that you take a bite before we start talking because that's what

[03:03:51] ensures guest right yeah right um so in the book there is no description of the fight between

[03:04:01] vegar and erak's um because there's no point of view it can be told from right so the watchers on

[03:04:09] the wall saw a blast of flame and they saw the dragons locked together vegar was five times the size

[03:04:18] of erak's and vegar is described as the hardened survivor of a hundred battles but everything

[03:04:28] about the dragons not obeying the writers that is an invention of the show and one of the things

[03:04:35] that ryan condell said in the hbo podcast is that dragons quote aren't just b 52s they're living gods

[03:04:44] that we're in control of to a degree and that that goes back to what visceri said at the beginning

[03:04:51] of the show the idea that we can control dragons is an illusion so they set that up way back

[03:04:58] at the beginning of the season absolutely it makes so much sense

[03:05:04] i wasn't sure at first um you know and i know the internet went bananas so many people book readers

[03:05:13] having some serious issues with that that's not how it's supposed to go but who says we don't know

[03:05:20] who do you oh my gosh we don't know the fears my husband we don't my husband was telling me because

[03:05:24] he was looking online before i think it was before we watched the episode but he wasn't reading and he

[03:05:29] said so it seems that everybody thinks that the finale is just like the finale of season eight

[03:05:34] of game of thrones i said that seems dramatic like nothing could be that bad right and um

[03:05:43] and so when we were finished watching it i'm like what what was it that was so terrible like that

[03:05:50] was pretty great so it was great um yeah i think it i think it made sense honestly i mean it took me

[03:05:57] a hot minute because the the shock you know had had to wear off i mean i i knew that's this is that

[03:06:04] event is what got spoiled for me um yeah that they said it was i mean i didn't know details i

[03:06:10] certainly didn't know like this detail of um you know it going down the exact way i just knew

[03:06:17] the event of storms end was going to be in the finale so i knew it was coming i just didn't

[03:06:21] know anything else but uh um so yeah i knew that was coming but still just to see it you know it was

[03:06:27] it was striking enough just reading it i mean so many traumatic events in the book that was

[03:06:32] definitely one of them um and it definitely left a mark on me just reading it but seeing it

[03:06:36] visually was very shocking so once once the shock wore off i think it makes sense honestly

[03:06:43] i think it makes sense too because the dragon is like your id the dragons are reacting to the

[03:06:48] riders emotions and we know they are because we see syrax screaming when raniera is screaming right

[03:06:56] yes that was a perfect kind of segway into how the that magical bond between dragons and their

[03:07:03] dragon riders and and we i mean we saw it earlier too with cracksies and daemon i commented on

[03:07:08] in that episode shoot what was it was it episode two when they were the stepstones or oh yeah man

[03:07:15] i'm so three what was it the road two or three yeah yeah yeah so when he was in battle and daemon's

[03:07:22] on cracksies uh and he gets hit by an arrow yeah you can see cracksies yes he reacts and roars

[03:07:30] like in pain that's right and so they've set this up for a long time and then they set it

[03:07:35] up here too between syrax and raniera when she's um in her her birthing and her lana and so

[03:07:44] when lana and lana agar was asking to die that's right mm-hmm so i think it makes perfect sense

[03:07:54] these two boys they're mad at each other and the dragons say okay us too us too i mean i feel

[03:08:02] like they're certainly running off the emotions and i think it's also you have to add in the element

[03:08:08] this is what i was kind of mentioning when you mentioned earlier about uh raniera and the line

[03:08:11] in the show that you know was like a mistake and i don't disagree that it could have very much

[03:08:16] been a mistake but when she's talking about their dragons not being you know like they've

[03:08:21] not seen battle but vagar has vagar and hey spoiler alert she's been in like hundreds

[03:08:28] of battles with vissenya she was queen vissenya's that's right uh dragon during the the conquest

[03:08:35] during the conquering yeah the con quest and many other battles that i won't talk about because i'm

[03:08:39] hoping we get the yeah it's wouldn't that be great in the future um that would be like a flashback

[03:08:44] season um whole season just a flashback just mm-hmm yep who have i got to pay off here to get

[03:08:51] this done well first we have to become the official hosts of the official yes that's step one

[03:08:57] that's the next step yes that's the next step and then we'll go from there um but i mean vagar i feel like

[03:09:04] and sweet baby a rax i mean that poor dragon was frightened the same as luke was right i mean

[03:09:12] he had to be peeing himself and with good reason yeah being bullied and tortured by amond being

[03:09:18] chased in this storm you know he has zero experience here and and amen doesn't either

[03:09:23] that's the problem right amen does not vagar does amen does not exactly he has zero experience

[03:09:31] writing a dragon has experienced him battle hardened as vagar and vagar i think a rax even though a rax

[03:09:38] was what zero threat to vagar i mean but i think when a rax came out of the clouds like that and

[03:09:43] shot fire vagar said game on she was in battle mode and when amen got on her back and even

[03:09:52] though he i don't i can see now the show is telling us that his intent was not to for that to be the

[03:09:59] outcome however you just strapped yourself yeah to a skyscraper size dragon that can fly and that

[03:10:07] is extremely battle hardened yep and you're playing around at a game that this dragon doesn't

[03:10:14] play and you've got her chasing a rax and a luke throughout the skies and i don't know that

[03:10:21] she knows that that's a game and when a rax comes out of the clouds and shoots fire her it's over

[03:10:29] so regardless of his intent amond is very much responsible for totally responsible for that i think

[03:10:35] it's also important to note that you know luceris left promising his mother that he was going to be

[03:10:42] a messenger and not a warrior and i think that he was trying to trying to keep hold that promise up

[03:10:52] you know keep to his promise absolutely and so you know that that poor kid he's like

[03:10:59] not to mention he probably doesn't even know what to do because we saw them fighting on the beach

[03:11:03] earlier that episode and he was he wasn't taking to the fighting very well or training wasn't

[03:11:09] going very well so there was a lot of foreshadowing and a lot of setup to this final final showdown

[03:11:15] between these two yeah there was yeah there was so the watchers on the wall see a rax fall into the

[03:11:22] bay and later his head and neck wash up on the cliffs um mushroom says that luke's corpse

[03:11:29] washed up also and that amond cut out his eyes and gave them to marris on a bed of seaweed um

[03:11:37] some say that vagar snatched luke off of air axe and swallowed him whole

[03:11:44] quote it has even been claimed that the prince survived his fall swam to safety but lost all

[03:11:49] memory of who he was spending the rest of his days as a simple minded fisherman and quote

[03:11:56] gildane the writer of fire and blood puts no stock in any of these stories except that luke

[03:12:01] died with his dragon and amond was henceforth known as amond the kin slayer uh awkward ride home huh

[03:12:11] yeah yeah so that's at the end of the first section for me okay before we move into spoilers

[03:12:22] remed do you have anything else for that's episode specific

[03:12:26] right no ma'am i feel like i'm just full of spoilers um the only thing that i have is about

[03:12:34] the banners did you discuss that i'm sorry um you can edit this out later but i oh i just i had

[03:12:41] a thing going on but i'll circle back so what i have here is ser eric mentions a three-headed

[03:12:47] green dragon banner in the books the greens use agon's personal arms as their symbol a golden

[03:12:54] three-headed dragon on black the gold coloring coming from agon's dragon sunfire the golden

[03:13:01] yes thank you yes i'm glad that was an interesting switch yes um yeah i did hear one suggestion

[03:13:09] that um perhaps the green dragon is what queen allison has taken as her symbol and that because

[03:13:18] she dispatched the envoys that maybe that's her symbol and that we'll see agon's golden dragon later

[03:13:27] because the golden dragon will come up again later in the timeline which i won't say more about

[03:13:33] since we're not in spoilers yet so we'll see next season whether they stick with the gold

[03:13:39] dragon or they are with the green dragon or the we see the gold dragon okay can't wait

[03:13:47] and then i just have one question felt like the queen's guard had two different sets of uniforms

[03:13:53] in this episode did you see that so uh i didn't really notice that in the middle of the episode

[03:14:00] when she went when ronira comes in um and daemon announces her for the first time

[03:14:07] her guard that's with her is in red and black um armor and capes in attire but before and after

[03:14:15] that scene the queen's guard had the same queen's guard or king's guard um uniforms as before so i'm

[03:14:24] wondering is this a different set of guards because that seems ridiculous that there would be two sets

[03:14:30] of guards or did they just have like a costume change for the war room only i don't know but i

[03:14:36] did notice that i don't know yeah yeah i don't know there's nothing in the book that would

[03:14:42] shed any light on that okay okay so here we go and remember the annoying alarm

[03:14:49] we're here we've come here run away run away so we're going to go into full spoilers full book

[03:14:56] full show full anything no holds barred so we'll catch you next time if you don't want to go

[03:15:02] much further but if you want to join us then let's keep going go on archmacer ready all right

[03:15:11] excited so um so when agon hears raneira's refusal of his terms after the envoys go back

[03:15:20] to king's landing he says i offered her an honorable peace and the horse spat in my face

[03:15:26] what happens next is on her own head and what happens next of course is war and that's the

[03:15:34] end of a chapter in the book and the next chapter is called the dying of the dragons a sun for a sun

[03:15:43] oh yeah yes tears um yeah so uh what we skipped over is um daemon taking heron hall without a fight

[03:15:56] they just surrender when he shows up on a dragon they've had lots of experience of dragons at

[03:16:00] heron hall we know what happens here and he meets alice rivers who is uh who will be an important

[03:16:10] character in future uh seasons and we don't hear you know much more about what's going on in her

[03:16:16] at all at this point then the story follows jayce's flight to the veil of erin where he succeeds

[03:16:24] um winning uh the lady of erin over to raneira's cause that jane then he goes to

[03:16:36] white harbor and wins over the support of the mandorleys and then he goes to winterfell

[03:16:44] where he meets kregan stark and they really hit it off and they hang out for a while there

[03:16:51] um and uh so we hear about his successes and then um there's a line in the book that says

[03:17:00] had his brothers quote with it a quote shorter safer uh flight gone well much bloodshed and

[03:17:09] grief might well have been averted so in the show the flight is mentioned as being short

[03:17:15] but it's it isn't referred as being shorter and safer but that's definitely called out in the book

[03:17:20] that his he's given the assignment that is seemingly shorter and safer um and then then we have the

[03:17:30] story of what happens to luke and if aamond expected a hero's welcome he didn't get it

[03:17:36] um allison cried out mother have mercy on us all when she heard what he'd done and auto said

[03:17:44] you only lost one eye how could you be so blind

[03:17:50] i'm very curious how they're going to handle that because um will will he show up and say

[03:17:59] what really happened and then it's between auto allison and the rest of the green council

[03:18:04] to then decide to just say take the shame of him being a kin slayer or versus um hey he just

[03:18:13] can't control his dragon because politically it's not a good move to say he can't control his dragon

[03:18:19] right they're they're gonna they're fighting to keep the throne and to keep agon on the throne

[03:18:24] and and have you know the right on their side yeah and then him being a kin slayer certainly

[03:18:30] does kind of strike fear into people so wouldn't it make sense for them or do you think that maybe

[03:18:36] aamond will just show up himself and just say yep this is how i went down i i killed him

[03:18:42] you know without really confessing that he didn't intend for it to happen i'm curious what he'll

[03:18:47] yeah well play out um uh agon agon the second says to uh it throws him a feast and announced

[03:19:00] announces that aamond had made a good beginning um so agon is all in favor of this kin slaying

[03:19:09] of course agon is an idiot yeah it's a plot uh but and then um

[03:19:21] when the news gets to daemon at heron hall he sends a raven to dragon stone with this message

[03:19:29] an eye for an eye a son for a son luceris will be avenged oh sorry luceris shall be avenged

[03:19:36] yeah and so that sets up blood and cheese blood and cheese which we will be seeing in season two

[03:19:49] i think i think how much second third episode how that's really gonna go down until

[03:19:54] i know because it's brutal in the books it's totally brutal i think they're gonna do it

[03:20:02] oh go on woof oh boy i don't know oh man that's you know they've done i think a really good job

[03:20:10] i know that they have shown brutality so far in this season but i think they've also done a good job

[03:20:15] of expressing the brutality without having to show certain things so i'm wondering if they're going

[03:20:21] to find a balance i don't think they'll i don't think that they will show us uh the child

[03:20:26] actually being killed i think that they will show it to us on helena's face probably yeah

[03:20:33] that they've done a good job of this season and i feel they'll probably carry it on into season two

[03:20:39] of the nonverbal mm-hmm you know like you don't even need the words or dialogue you just people's

[03:20:45] expressions because everyone does such a fantastic job the actors are also great uh yeah i i i think

[03:20:52] they'll do it now if will it be exactly as it is in the books again i think everything's in

[03:20:58] question now because so many things have changed um that that we thought we knew but uh i definitely

[03:21:04] think it's gonna happen yeah i think it has to people aren't ready yeah i'm not ready people yeah

[03:21:12] i know what's gonna happen and i'm not ready yeah i knew this was gonna happen and i wasn't

[03:21:15] ready right i'm gonna be one of those things where there's a lot different people that have

[03:21:18] read the books record people that haven't read the books watching watching this like the red wedding

[03:21:23] you know yeah it's like the red wedding is gonna become like that viral thing i totally plan on doing it

[03:21:31] yeah i'll have to do it to my kiddo yeah she hasn't read the book so i'll be like

[03:21:36] yeah if you haven't got the books and you're still listening please read the books over

[03:21:40] over the course of this long hiatus like just get prepared next two years just do it all right

[03:21:46] listen to it read it yeah do it mm-hmm uh yeah i i do think that blood and cheese is going to be

[03:21:54] the red wedding of house of the dragon i don't see how it can't how yeah cannot be um so um

[03:22:04] gildane says with luceris's death the war of ravens and envoys and marriage packs came to an end

[03:22:12] and the war of fire and blood began in earnest also known as season two

[03:22:23] so much still to cover and but i think that this was a good choice of where they left it

[03:22:30] in this finale i agree i really think so there is one thing that i'm really curious about where

[03:22:36] they're gonna go uh when they were in the council scene uh talking about the unclaimed dragons they

[03:22:45] cut to reina's face and she had an expression on her face like unclaimed dragons maybe i'll go get one

[03:22:53] which is not what happens in the book and i'm just wondering if they're gonna make that major

[03:22:57] change and have her go claim one of the unclaimed dragons and i was trying to figure out how

[03:23:04] could they do that without messing around with the events too much because what happens is

[03:23:10] adam valerian who is corelease's bastard son who he claims is

[03:23:16] lain or his bastard son claims sea smoke um oulf the white who is a dragon seed you know somebody

[03:23:23] with how targaryen blood claims silverwing and uh hue hammer another dragon seed claims vermax and

[03:23:34] then nettles claims uh sheepstealer you can't change nettles claiming steeps sheepstealer because

[03:23:40] she has an important part later um i really really don't want them to to change adam valerian

[03:23:49] claiming sea smoke the sea smoke dilemma but you don't really need both oulf the white and

[03:23:55] hue hammer i think you could take one of them out and have reina claim one of those dragons now

[03:24:02] reina does get a dragon later she could claim vermouth or well she could claim vermouth or maybe

[03:24:07] and i'm just talking else thinking out and they showed us vermouth or right they showed us reina

[03:24:13] and vermouth or out of all the unclaimed dragons we saw so maybe what it is is that as like a sorry we

[03:24:21] didn't show leina claiming vagar we're gonna watch brilliant right brilliant i i think they're gonna

[03:24:30] do it i think they're gonna do it can we please yeah i mean the this the scene with amond

[03:24:37] the little shit and vagar was amazing because we've never gotten to see that before yeah but i was

[03:24:44] really upset that we didn't and i i get it didn't matter to the story we didn't have to see it but

[03:24:50] oh i feel like it was such a missed opportunity not to see uh leina uh bond with yeah vagar and

[03:24:56] claim her uh so that would be fantastic to them pass that to her daughter and if she claimed

[03:25:02] vermouth or because vermouth or is next to vagar the oldest oldest largest next to vagar

[03:25:10] for a month or during the dance of that would be out hundred years old that's right yeah so yeah

[03:25:16] and we're talking about baila here right reina the young baila already has a dragon yeah so and

[03:25:23] she's going to be grieving the loss of her betrothed as well i mean it could be that's right

[03:25:28] a most unimpactful scene if they do oh my gosh that's right that's true and one of the things i've

[03:25:33] loved is how they've shown that um uh jace and baila and luke and reina are really tight with each

[03:25:42] other yes yeah you can really see that in this episode and they all really enjoy each other

[03:25:47] and they look very excited to be marrying one another you know it's it's i agree it's very

[03:25:53] sweet so you're right reina reina is actually going to be grieving vermouth or is there we've

[03:26:01] seen vermouth or so maybe she's gonna go get and she's gonna remember the fact that her sister

[03:26:06] was denied the opportunity to claim vagar that's right she's gonna remember so in the right

[03:26:13] in the book reina is sent off to the veil for safekeeping and she does eventually hatch a dragon

[03:26:19] and eventually become a dragon rider but not yet but yeah they could change it be fun

[03:26:30] it'd be fun i would i'd be okay with that yeah so i know you have a hard stop and i do coming up so

[03:26:40] and that was the end of what i have to say perfect that was everything it's perfect well if that is

[03:26:46] all that we have for this i know that um we still need to discuss it the three of us but um i'd

[03:26:52] like to do a uh season overview in the coming weeks i think all three of us need a little bit of a break

[03:27:01] so yes you know we need to recover we'll all come back to this in a few weeks once we've had time

[03:27:08] to process and relax our brains a little bit and really just dig into the season as a whole

[03:27:14] and the book as a whole and um go from there so with this stopping point i just want to thank

[03:27:20] archmacer renny for every single week just bringing it 110 percent your knowledge is so

[03:27:28] appreciated by us and by every single listener you are permanent fixture on uh dragon cast and we

[03:27:36] just appreciate you and are grateful for you every single week thank you so much for everything this

[03:27:41] season i really really we really appreciate it yes thank you thank you so much renny i can't say

[03:27:48] enough how grateful i am for the time that you've spent and put into talking with us every week i know

[03:27:55] it's i know it's not easy to do putting all that together so thank you so much thank you for including

[03:28:04] me on dragon cast it's it's been great it's really enhanced my enjoyment of the show this season

[03:28:12] as well awesome awesome awesome that's awesome okay well with that we're gonna turn it back over to

[03:28:18] the rest of the episode i'm off on my dragon bye

[03:28:26] well next up on house of the dragon because guess what there is a next up

[03:28:33] a little bit sooner than what you probably think so we are done with season one for now

[03:28:42] we are going to take at least like a two week break to process and catch our breath

[03:28:50] but our next episode will be a season overview so hopefully we're going to get

[03:28:57] some of our favorites to come and join us for the discussion we will post a feedback

[03:29:02] opportunity where you can contribute um you know we've loved your feedback over this entire season

[03:29:08] thank you so much please um when you do see that feedback for the season overview um you know

[03:29:15] rima and archmage to renny and i were talking earlier about the fact that we just want to

[03:29:19] like not now but soon binge the entire season just watch it start to finish and then

[03:29:28] really kind of dig into the overview of the entire season and themes and characters and

[03:29:33] whatnot so we'd love for you to be a part of it and you can contribute uh to that episode in one of

[03:29:40] these ways you can leave feedback at our podcast to the facebook page where we do post feedback

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[03:29:53] an email um at dragoncastica at gmail.com we would love if you go leave us a review and subscribe

[03:30:03] to dragoncast on apple podcast that's how everyone um gets to find us and clearly everyone has been

[03:30:09] doing that favor for us thank you so much um for doing that you're helping us be found when

[03:30:14] folks are in search of a podcast uh campaign into the show so thank you for that um and

[03:30:21] you can find dragoncast and a bunch of other great podcasts so many great podcasts right now at

[03:30:26] podcastica.com yes there are i think handmaid's tail is still going yes yes indeed um you have

[03:30:37] started the midnight club on strange indeed yes as walking dead is finishing up their final

[03:30:43] season for walking dead cast uh she-holk just wrapped up but if you're just getting into

[03:30:48] that show you can go back and listen to um those episodes and rings of power um anwin and pennie

[03:30:56] bringing it with um wow with their amazing coverage with their coverage of yeah with their

[03:31:02] coverage of rings of power and you have a treat in anwin if you haven't um listened yet that girl

[03:31:08] she knows her talking so but that is there that's that's our show that's the end we've

[03:31:17] we've completed the show thank you for listening everybody thanks for still being with us after

[03:31:23] off these hours yes all these hours and hours of this podcast we're truly grateful um until next time

[03:31:33] i'm marima i'm christin

[03:31:34] dracarys