1: "Red Light, Green Light" (Squid Game S1E1)

[00:00:00] 1, 2, 3! I tell you I'm a campaigner. You can see why I don't know. Hey everybody, welcome to the Podcast of Jason and I'm David and I'm Browdenick and we're just getting started with Squid Game Season 1 episode 1 Red Light Green Light. It's so

[00:01:24] much fun. It's it's it's the game, it's a fun game. So before we get into it I want to let you guys know who are new to all our stuff because sometimes new people find us

[00:01:34] when new shows kind of who we are and what we do. We're a podcast to cut that's our network. We're pretty much a group of fans who've been doing covering TV shows. We do fun in depth episode by episode coverage of Great TV for the most part,

[00:01:48] occasionally a stinker emerges but mostly great. For about 13 years now we try to only cover stuff that we're really genuinely into and they were excited to do. We cover a lot of shows a few our yellow jackets, white lotus, stranger things,

[00:02:02] Ted Lasso. We did all of game with drones, hand-made stale. We started with walking dead and we do all this spin-offs. We almost all the Star Wars shows Loki and a bunch more so if you go to podcast to get.com if you feel like it,

[00:02:16] you can see all the other shows. We cover basically we want to enhance your experience of each show and engage with you guys on it and just really dig into it and have fun doing it. Our structure is going to be a little different than usual

[00:02:28] for this podcast at honor of Squid Game. It's going to be me in David each week and then we'll be bringing in a different guest co-host and then eliminating them. So I was going to say it. I'm going to say it.

[00:02:38] No, no, you can't find out. I mean, you know only one of us are getting out of this one. That's right. I did not sign any contracts. Actually, no, just kidding. But it will be David and me through most of it with

[00:02:54] Veronica here and then Daphne and Karen and maybe one or two others rotating in with us. So you'll get some consistency and some variety. So I hope Karen is not going to be mad at me for telling this a little story but

[00:03:07] so we were talking today about the podcast and you know and I was saying, she said, I'll rewatch the show if you're going to rewatch it with you and I said, well, you're

[00:03:19] going to tag in a couple of times right. And she said, aren't you podcasting about the new reality show? I said, no, we're broadcasting about Squid Game. So she misunderstood the Brazil. Okay, so it might not be Karen. But I have another question.

[00:03:37] She actually was more excited about it because she actually scored a game when she loves and she was less excited about the reality show. Which I would be too. Well, so you mentioned that and that's actually kind of why we're putting this out now.

[00:03:50] I've been wanting to podcast about Squid Game for a long time and I was waiting for the right time with a gap in my schedule and whatever. But I found out this reality show that I've

[00:03:58] just mentioned is called Squid Game the Challenge is coming out in a couple of days. Maybe like tomorrow as you're hearing this or it may already be out. It's November 22nd on Netflix and

[00:04:09] it's a real life version of Squid Game basically presumably without the murder, right? As far as we know, we'll see. The description is $456 million. The largest single cast prize in reality television and game show history through a series of games each player has pushed to their limits

[00:04:29] and forced to ask themselves how far they'll go to win. And so I think that, I mean, I plan to watch it at least to start and see if I'm really turned off then maybe I want one to keep going.

[00:04:43] But I think if it's interesting at all we should just maybe do a little 10 minute segment at the end, you know about it. We've got to at least check it out. Yeah, check it out. Yeah.

[00:04:54] I mean, it's kind of one thing I like about Squid Game is it's sort of a commentary on the horrific misive this kind of thing and then they're just like, and we're actually just going to do it.

[00:05:05] So it's like, oh really? But we'll see what it's like. I am definitely fascinated. But let me talk a little bit about Squid Game just some things that people met not know. So the show came out worldwide September 17th, 2021. I thought it was a good pandemic show because

[00:05:23] everything felt dystopian for us back then a little bit now too. It had a critical acclaim around the world. It became Netflix most watch series ever and the most watched program in 94 countries had 142 million member households and 1.65 billion viewing hours and it's first four weeks.

[00:05:43] So we're passing Bridgerton as Netflix most watched show. It's had numerous accolades, golden global ward for best supporting actor in a series. Many series are television film for O-Yong Siu, which is O-L-Nam in the show, the older guy. Screen actors Guild Award for outstanding

[00:06:02] performances by male actor and a drama series and outstanding performance by female actor and drama series for Lee Jung Jae, who's the main character, a young, ghee-hoon and Hoyong Jun, who's Sabiok, the North Korean defector woman. All three were also the first Korean actors to win

[00:06:21] in those categories. The first season got 14 prime time Emmy Award nominations. I won't go through them all. Lee won the outstanding lead actor and a drama series, the first time an Asian actor won the award for a non-English part. And a second season was officially announced in June 2022

[00:06:40] along with the reality, this reality competition I mentioned. Filming for the second season began July of this year and it's supposed to come out sometime next year and our plan is to cover that.

[00:06:50] That's my plan anyway. Hope you guys are in for that. We're going to try to keep this non-spoilery by the way even though we've seen the first season so if you haven't seen it,

[00:06:58] hopefully we'll be able to do that and we may if we feel like it have like a spoiler segment at the end of the podcast to talk about things that happen post wherever we're covering. But

[00:07:10] you can skip that if you don't want to hear it. And I thought we would, I mean there's a lot of preamble right now but we won't do this every episode but for this one I thought it would be cool

[00:07:19] for each of us to talk about what we like about the show and why we'd want to podcast about it. Just kind of in general Veronica, what about you? Yeah, you know I'll see you about it a lot and

[00:07:31] it's such a violent show and if I was asked to podcast about it I was like what I want to watch this again and I think what when I came back to him the whole reason that I stuck with the show

[00:07:44] in the first place is that the violence doesn't just feel gratuitous in the show like it feels like it gives you something to think about. It feels like it has some purpose in being there like

[00:07:56] the Renafu show recently that had just had violence that didn't feel like it was advancing the storyline and that I don't like but this I loved sort of all the things that that violence underlined like all the other feeling she's refueling. Um you know desperation, self preservation,

[00:08:15] empathy, conflict, fear, relief, guilt like all at the same time though you could watch all those things play across the characters face and it was all sort of underlined I think by the

[00:08:27] violence that had just occurred. I don't know I think it just stuck with maybe because of that and I found it compelling and I don't anticipate I will ever be in the types of situations these

[00:08:39] characters were in but it was interesting to think about what I would do if I was in their shoes. Yeah, would I be sucked into this thing? I was watching it today for the first time in two years

[00:08:53] and I've been hyping this podcast and I got to the end and I knew what happened so I've seen it but when it was actually on my screen I was like oh fuck I forgot how disturbing this is and

[00:09:05] I should have worn people especially with all the mass shootings happening that it's very disturbing and I felt kind of guilty and I really do think I should have put out some kind of a warning.

[00:09:15] But then I thought about it, it actually said and I also thought about it a little deeper and like for me personally I don't like the John Wick movies. I know a lot of people do

[00:09:26] I've only seen one actually the first one and I didn't want to see anymore after that and and I think that's because I feel like movies like that they make gun violence and other

[00:09:34] violence feel they want you to feel giddy about it yeah this is great and with this show it's horrific and shocking and it's clearly a bad guy who are perpetrating it and I feel like the problem

[00:09:49] is when gun violence is normalized you know it should be shocking and so that helped me feel a little bit better about this week. It's so smart of a show there's so much going on

[00:10:00] and when you feel horrified at something like this I think that's the right emotion to be feeling when you're watching it you know not like yeah get more people never so that's kind of what you made me think of when you were talking about the violence.

[00:10:14] Yeah Veronica I think you put your finger right on it this um I too forgot Jason how intense the show is and haven't watched it since it's been on and like you I have watched it all the way to the

[00:10:27] end so I remember a lot about it but there's a lot of details I did not remember there is you know the one most memorable scene in this first episode I think is one of the most memorable scenes

[00:10:40] I've ever seen in any show or movie and there is um there's no other show I can think of that as you said Veronica makes you feel as many different emotions at the same time like with as a reaction

[00:10:56] to one thing that happened or a change in the plot or something that happens to one of them the character so I think it's very very smart very intense very well done and the show couldn't

[00:11:07] have the impact it has without the violence it's just uh it's part of it and the life and death stakes in the plot is what makes gives you the intensity of feeling that you feel and it has one

[00:11:18] of my favorite things in shows which is it understand I think it understands human psychology what motivates people how people can contradict themselves in different context or complex and and just you know how what people will do that seems crazy if they have the right

[00:11:36] the circumstances in the lives or well there will do things that are harmful to themselves or their loved ones because they have these well we'll talk about it but you know it's

[00:11:48] it's about addiction at least this first episode so it just feels like I mean any show that seems like it has a good understanding of the human condition like I believe the show does gets me

[00:11:57] unlike yes I feel so connected to the writing and the acting and everything yeah and it's also just amazingly well done yes like visually stunning amazingly written and painting acting yeah the acting is incredible and it's just a really really high quality show right on all right

[00:12:17] that's good so let's get into the first episode squid game season one episode one red light green light um when I say green light you guys talk no so for this one we usually just quickly say in general

[00:12:33] what we thought about it we already talked a little but do you have anything else to say David just an amazingly good first episode I had no idea what to expect the first time we watched the show

[00:12:44] we just knew that it was a big deal on sort of a world phenomenon and there are some shows I always bring up breaking bad within the first 10 minutes of any new podcast Jason knows that so

[00:12:59] this was right over that in terms of a first episode that just grabs you yeah you know right away with this episode like with breaking bad whether you're gonna like show or not yes exactly so yeah

[00:13:13] I thought it was amazing yeah I agree I I I was trying to reflect and remember where I was at when I first watched the show like headspace about it and I think I was a few weeks behind everyone else

[00:13:27] I'm really kind of anticipated like I don't want to just watch like the world feels depressing enough right now we're in the middle of COVID like I don't really want to watch the super violent show

[00:13:37] and even with how you know shocking the first episode was um and how intense that was I ended up bingeing within a few days the entire season because I just need to you know I wanted to see more so yeah I really

[00:13:54] feel weird saying I enjoyed it because it is kind of dark but I really like to yeah I felt that same way about breaking bad too like I kept hearing while it's about this chemistry teacher

[00:14:07] who gets desperate because he has cancer and decides to start making meth with his student and I'm like that's fucked up man I don't want to watch that and then everyone kept saying

[00:14:17] how great it was I'm like all right I'll give it a shot now it's probably my favorite show yeah I liked it a lot one thing that stood out to me that I didn't remember is how much of a weasel

[00:14:27] um Sean Gihun I'm not saying that right Sean Gihun so I'm Gihun is um and and uh yet the actor is so good at portraying his emotions that I found myself a root like yeah still your mom's money

[00:14:45] with her ATF guard like I was kind of surprised not totally rooting for him but at least appreciating the complexity of his character and wanting to see more for sure enjoying watching him

[00:14:56] even as I didn't like him as a person a lot of the time and that's a feature of modern TV that I think we didn't have in earlier eras that enable shows to be deeper and more complex um you know

[00:15:10] characters that are not the um the hero that you sympathize with is not necessarily hero I mean Tony soprano or Walter White or this character there's a lot of flaws there and a lot of things

[00:15:23] you even can't excuse but yet yeah you um it it puts you in the head and hard space of that person but I agree with you completely and with guys like Walter White especially

[00:15:37] halfway through breaking bad and Tony soprano pretty much the whole way through I kept reminding myself this is not a good person you even though I felt what you're saying I didn't want to let

[00:15:48] myself fully give over with this character uh strong yuhun I'm like he could he could fix this you know I have hope that he can redeem himself at least not at least as of now but you're right he does some

[00:16:04] pretty fucked up things yeah like I think if he was played just slightly differently he could be a lot more despicable but he's like just like a lufan of just sort of like dumb enough and pityable enough that

[00:16:17] that even I think even before you know he was in the game it's like even as you're seeing how kind of crappy he is to his whole family I still felt sorry for him I still was like rooting like

[00:16:30] come on man like I want you to win some money and get out of this get it together yeah yes we're gonna do we're gonna try out a segment we've had another podcast where it seems appropriate

[00:16:42] it's called fucked up moment of the week just briefly I'll do it first just sort of demonstrate I mean there's a lot of fucked up moments in this episode like the main character trying to steal

[00:16:52] money from his mother so he can gamble and along this of others but mass shooting you can't get more fucked up than that that was just nightmare material yeah in my opinion yeah I think like specifically

[00:17:07] within the mass shooting the the front man for him his glass of alcohol and uh turning on some jazz I think was the yeah that was the top fucked up moment of her me and it's another thing

[00:17:22] I love about this show if you're if you have the right sense of humor it's darkly funny and yeah I appreciated some of the small fucked up moments in the show to go with the big ones and

[00:17:35] I think that when I will pick is the launch heart punching him in the nose so he'll have inked put his friend on the contract to sign a way as kidney yeah he's like oh I need a nink pad boom

[00:17:49] I just didn't realize that first things yeah I get you and that's another quote in quite funny moment too yeah okay let's get into our points who wants to go first

[00:18:01] Veronica me first yeah um I guess I'll just sort of piggyback on what we're already talking about a little bit which is I'm gonna mess his name up like 12 times before I get it right gui-hoon

[00:18:15] alright um just in general what a great job they did within this first half of the episode of really showing us his full character and I noticed particularly with him but I think all the actors in this show

[00:18:32] how much they did what their faces like how much they communicated outside of the spoken dialogue and I really enjoyed that and I enjoyed it with him he could be quite goofy but I think

[00:18:45] that was part of what made him redeemable is that sort of goofiness yeah to charm yeah did you guys when I first watched this show I watched the dubbed version and then on my first rewatch for the pod

[00:19:00] I listened to the original like Korean actors audio and he is much whiny or with the original audio and I actually disliked him a little bit more with that than with the dubbed over version I thought that was interesting but I mean he's basically just this main-end child

[00:19:23] he's obviously dealing with severe addiction so we see his gambling problems he's so self entitled in everything he does like he's the way he talks to his mother sort of the way he interacts with everyone you know he is speaking to his friend from

[00:19:40] childhood's mother at one point in the episode and trying to take credit for his friend's success on some level like he just was all these things that are so like despicable and still like yeah

[00:19:55] I didn't hate him I think it was really interesting watching him interact with his daughter and seeing that she was sort of already the adult in the relationship I felt like she was like trying to she could see his failings but trying to not make making

[00:20:13] feel ashamed of it trying to help him feel better about everything which um and I think it was coming from a place of love that's what I was getting from the actors that it was his great actors

[00:20:25] that she loves her dad to spite and my my mother was 18 when she had me and she was a single mother and it was rough and we lived um paycheck to paycheck had a lot of debt so I maybe that's

[00:20:39] another reason why I feel kind of connected to like the themes of this but um and she would bullshit me sometimes just like this guy does his daughter and so I feel a lot of compassion for her

[00:20:51] but just the fact that she is still um rooting for him and everything and it doesn't seem to want to leave him makes me like him a little bit more. Jucks opposed to all the things I was

[00:21:00] like complaining about him and saying we're sort of petty and whiny about him like you did see that he loved his daughter like he was so excited when he finally won money to be able to do something

[00:21:11] for and to see her yeah he really did want he wanted to be a better dad I think. Yeah I don't think it's as simple as that though because instead of just buying a present he goes to one of

[00:21:22] those claw machines never went at those and and also uh he uh what else did he do he's just bullshitting or all the time and then when he goes home and his mother's telling him

[00:21:35] you need to if you have you know they're gonna leave they're going to the United States and he's like oh that's too bad and it was like do don't you care so I I was a little bit like wow I thought

[00:21:45] he cared a little more than I think you're right he does but maybe he just feels helpless you know it's like a learned helplessness I think he's like well that's my life I can't do anything about it

[00:21:53] I don't know. I agree with you Veronica he cares about her. I he's just such a f***a um I think he went to the claw machine to try to get a nicer present then he could just buy of course

[00:22:07] if I can win at this you know it's so stupid and unrealistic but you kind of get what he's thinking yeah and I think the news that they were moving to the U.S. does motivate him to join the squid game

[00:22:22] so he makes a pretty sacrifice on that point yeah that's what at least I would say that's sort of the thing that pushes him over the edge it's about his right if he was gonna be there

[00:22:34] anyway but he liced her how many times during that short time that they're dinner and he kind of had to be pushed into it by his mom like it was so funny she's like dude you know it's your daughter don't

[00:22:45] you don't want to not see her anymore and he's talking with his mouth full he's like a teenager with his mother just the lashing out at her and seeing very immature which is interesting but um

[00:22:56] then yeah that got him really thinking about it and then he connected with his love for her looking at her pictures and everything and then decided to do the the game. I did sort of question his mother

[00:23:07] the grandmothers like pushing that he should keep the granddaughter there like what about what's actually best for the granddaughter it's probably to be in the more stable household with her mom and stepdad like no it would be bad if she was completely out of her dad's life but

[00:23:25] I don't know I just seemed like it was about who could control the child. I don't know I I don't think I hear what you're saying about his reaction to that, to her moving and I thought

[00:23:39] I saw it more as just he sees what a messed up he is and that he's already defeated he knows he can't yeah um well I mean as far as the mother's reaction I think that I agree with you that that should be

[00:23:54] at least a consideration and it probably should be the main consideration but I can also see from it I mean the sounds like I'm stereotyping but I guess any mother was gonna say an Asian mother but

[00:24:03] any mother you're gonna side with your son and just be pretty narrow minded about that you know potentially. When I think the other subtext there is I'm more even she actually comes out and says it

[00:24:15] is that if you think from her point of view right her son is kind of this mess up maybe she loves her son but he's not a great son the one good thing she has in her life as she loves the ground

[00:24:28] daughter and I think she thinks if this granddaughter goes to the United States they'll never see her again she's gone forever she's never coming back she's not even gonna speak Korean and that will be the

[00:24:38] end of it. She's also just probably always trying to do whatever she can to motivate her son to fly straight narrow and take some responsibility and I mean this is about making money if you

[00:24:48] have enough money you can get your daughter back and get custody but I also think well you should know that he's just gonna go gamble because you said that. Okay David so just one note about him

[00:25:03] the salesmen who recruit some into the squid game mentions that he owes 400 million Korean one and what that equates to is about 300 thousand dollars so I think we do know how totally hopeless

[00:25:18] and impossible that is he is never going to be able to get that amount of money by any other way and that's mostly from well he owed money to the loan sharks and to the bank. Right about

[00:25:32] half and half so I'll just follow with a little bit more about him because his character and it's our introduction to it I think is the main part of this episode. One thing I realized this time around

[00:25:46] that I didn't quite catch the first time is when they're talking about his daughter's next birthday so he's saying uh next year I'll get you a better present so we subsequently learn and he

[00:25:58] subsequently learns that she's moving away with a family and maybe he'll never see her again but I think the subtext while it was happening is he kind of realizes he's probably not gonna live

[00:26:10] until her next birthday and the way things are closing in on him. The way loan sharks are pursuing him you know he signed that document he keeps promising I'm gonna pay them next month he's not gonna pay

[00:26:24] them next month so um but he doesn't think about it though he's he puts it out of his head blah blah blah yeah I think there was some realization there that that next year or the future is not

[00:26:40] quite realistic and and then we do learn something about his background and we learned all very quickly from this squid game recruiter but we learned that he got a strong education my high level of technical education that he actually had what sounds like a pretty good factory job

[00:27:00] but knowing what we know about him probably didn't have the responsibility or discipline or just the mindset to want to work at that kind of job day after day and he did try to start a couple

[00:27:14] businesses of his own which is sort of another form of gambling although a more respectable one that didn't work out and he lost everything you know the job the businesses and his family

[00:27:28] and I think that did put some irony into his mom urging him to go buy fried chicken for his daughter since that was his business that failed and I wonder if she's even twisting the knife

[00:27:41] on him a little bit with him. Also fried chicken is kind of a thing in Korea there's some amazing Korean fried chicken restaurants and sandwiches go here. Gotcha so maybe it was a good idea

[00:27:56] that didn't work out but I think we actually learned an amazing amount about one character before the main action of this show even starts but the action itself would not have meant much if we

[00:28:11] didn't know everything that we know about him. No, not even no way. Yeah and then the one last single mention about him is he is so oblivious and funny and yet annoying and also a little bit

[00:28:26] enduring but this whole scene where they're already in the squid game and he realizes who this pick pocket is and he starts trying to get his money back from her it's just so unrealistic and ridiculous.

[00:28:42] Yeah I chuckled at that too and it's this moment where you almost think he's intervening to help this young woman. You gotta know. It's been raining. It's just what's this money like do you

[00:28:53] really think she doesn't want to tell you how much you are? But but he he's impulsive and unthinking sometimes so I would agree with you it's not believable but maybe there's a 1% chance you know.

[00:29:09] I think also you know we got to learn and care a lot about him but it was also interesting that we could almost like reflect his story on to every other player like everyone else that's in there

[00:29:22] is in the same state of desperation as him I mean they may have varying levels of redeemability but I think that's interesting too to have more insight into the level of desperation that all

[00:29:35] these players have. Yeah I think we only learned what reason one other guy was in there his friend who started he was financial investment broker and given money from his clients and invested in

[00:29:50] the lawsuit right? I don't know if they named off a bunch of other how much debt people had and I noticed they were all greater than he who. So that was something interesting maybe there's

[00:30:03] just way more desperation in there. Yeah and this episode besides bringing out the desperation in Gui Hoon it's so brutal in terms of the humiliation that he goes through. Oh yeah I mean he gets humiliated

[00:30:17] by these loan sharks and even by the guy who slaps him over the recruiter and he gets humiliated by his ex-wife and by his mom by the fish lady believe it the fish. Yeah I mean he just really takes it

[00:30:33] from everybody and he's so obviously so used to it that it doesn't even really permeate him like in the subway when he's playing the game he does a notice. I loved the interaction I don't think we

[00:30:47] mentioned this yet but with his wife like you know 10 seconds of her interaction with him and you can see just how absolutely over his shit she was and just how exhausted she was from

[00:30:59] probably having the exact same conversations and interactions over and over again. Yeah but then when they walked away with their backs to him in the little girl turned around his daughter and waved

[00:31:12] that was so sweet and it just shows okay there's still somebody who had some love and respect for him and something to motivate him. Oh yeah so since we're on him I'll skip to one of my points

[00:31:26] about him which is his addiction and I love that the show started with flashback of him playing Squid Game as a kid the you know the game that the show is titled after and he won and he felt so

[00:31:42] exhilarated and it's just like the looks like he's having the best moment that he has ever had and ever will have in his life except we see the same expression on his face as an adult whatever he

[00:31:54] wins anything and that just shows that I don't know if that was a formative moment or just part of his personality but he gets an endorphin overload when he wins and his whole life I think is about

[00:32:07] trying to recapture that feeling and that's why he's a gaming and a gambling addict and he why he has such low integrity because chasing the high of winning is more important to him than

[00:32:18] being honest and responsible even with his family so I'll be interested to I can't really remember but to see if this changes at all as things go on but chasing that high is just costing him in his life

[00:32:32] and it's putting him in his his destroying his broke divorced lying to his kid can't get her present he's burdened on his family debts you know big giant debts and it's put some in this

[00:32:46] perfect desperate state for the Squid Game I mean the game whatever you call I don't know if they have a name for their organization but to exploit when he gets the money from the ATM successfully

[00:32:57] were you guys rooting for him to get that or not no you're like dead hope he failed I wasn't then it was too early he had just been whiny up to that point and like he's stealing from his elderly mother

[00:33:09] I wasn't there was a part of people like how we get that code and I'm like what are my saying I wondered if that machine was if he had not gotten the code with the machine of just kept the

[00:33:20] card and then they would have lost whatever was on it and he keeps winning like he gets the money and you know it's his daughter's birthday but he goes to the track and he's so wrapped up and

[00:33:32] it goes faster and then he loses and I was into blackjack for a while and played a little roulette and I get that feeling where you're so like the roulette we like and remember one time I had a

[00:33:46] bunch of money down just waiting for it to go around and hit the wrong line and everybody at the table was waiting to like whoa he just put down a lot of money let's see and then I just turned

[00:33:54] around and walked away I didn't even want to face anybody there is such a low feeling you know and then he of course plays again and just I'm like you asshole you're risking all the money

[00:34:06] you just got for your daughter but then he wins and at that point I was kind of bringing against them like you need to learn less in here but and then when he wins money he's like happy to

[00:34:18] spend it on people he gives the tip to the clerk and even though he has all this debt that's why I feel like he's got some magical thinking going on I don't know if he realizes

[00:34:28] he's gonna be dead next year he's just he's whatever mood he's in in the moment is his reality and he's just like I got some money I'm a spender and he buys expensive things

[00:34:40] and then the debt collector show up and that just just shows a new level of how bad things have gone and that was a really harrowing scene where the guy threats to stick a metal spike up his nose

[00:34:50] and make a soup out of his blood sign with his bloody thumprant and then after being slapped repeatedly by the sky from the squid game organization or whatever it is he finally wins one against him so there so for listeners who don't quite have the context they're playing

[00:35:09] that card game where they have two pieces of paper folded into squares ones red ones blue and you have to try to knock the other ones and flip it over and he keeps losing and getting

[00:35:20] slapped and it was a great montage which I think is fucking hilarious and then he wins and he just wants to slap the other guy back he's not thinking about you know and it's like it's

[00:35:31] forgotten yeah I think it's more about the feeling for him and it's like no dude you can take some money here so I just so this feeling this in Dorfins you for ya is

[00:35:46] ruling his life he's an addict that's my point and there's a this tinge of being a loser and everything he does so like a big gambler would get a big winnings and give a big tip to the

[00:35:58] woman who works behind the window but he gives her this tiny tip and then he comes back and takes it back from her just the look on her and it was 10,000 which is like seven bucks I think

[00:36:09] yeah yeah all right Veronica I think one thing I just wanted to talk on in general that I loved about this episode and I think about the show in general the juxtaposition between

[00:36:26] really light stuff and very dark heavy stuff that I feel like they do so well the music especially the music that's in the opening scene with the it almost sounds like a recorder like

[00:36:37] that little like flute you learn to play in elementary school with just like a snare drum it sounded tribal and kidlike at the same time we're just kind of what you're talking about like

[00:36:47] the deposition yeah that against the rest of the show and then I think they do a lot of when they're introducing the facility a lot of like classical music and then I already commented

[00:37:01] on like the jazz music that he's listening to as people are as he's watching people be shot what splattering everywhere yeah and there's everything I mean everything set against children's games right and it's people dying while playing children's games the bright field they have the

[00:37:22] mal-on and the creepy doll like all of that against the dark stuff I think just makes it again just highlights the traumatic stuff and makes it that much more upsetting to me it reminded me a lot

[00:37:37] of the movie mid summer that I thought did that same sort of thing I've only ever watched that movie once and I think similar to some of the scenes in this show once was enough for it to just be

[00:37:50] like emblazoned in my memory because it was so intense um obviously a very different movie but again I just remember the beautiful scenery the sort of hauntingly beautiful music against severely

[00:38:05] really intense ups and things yeah and I think this show sort of gave me that same feeling and I don't know again it's well as I don't really want to say I like it but I liked it like it was

[00:38:20] intriguing and I think up all of my emotions as I was watching the show that that was just if you think about any relationship failure you've ever had it's not as bad as mid summer

[00:38:32] yeah it is you're not talking if you weren't burned alive in a bare suit yeah um yeah I love that too and I think the juxtaposition of Chad like things with serious things and deadly things

[00:38:48] and I think it's not just for the shock although that's kind of delicious in a dark way but it's also about like even when they show the the squid game at the beginning with the kids

[00:38:58] they're so intense about it and you know to the point where when he's like going to win at the end and the other kids grabbing his shirt and he'll just keep on going in terror shirt he doesn't care

[00:39:08] that those kind of drives I think is the point are there in kids sometimes you know my kids like they they're competing about every little thing all the time and they you know they playfully

[00:39:20] but they talk about defa lot your dead you died but also you can tell like they're just little people and and I think um there those drives can be kind of primal or um pre um

[00:39:37] before you start to develop your higher functions in ways of logic and thinking and stuff they're underneath that still but they they're in childhood they can't be anyway you know and they would probably be more preserved in us and adulthood if we were still living

[00:39:53] and in our mess for we had to survive and it really was survival of the fittest um so yeah I think that is I'm just saying like all these people when there's an impulse to I don't know like say beoke the girl who's the North Korean director

[00:40:16] and she's got this guy who used to be her like mentor but he's an asshole clearly and I think she's a pickpocker right so he was the teaching her how to do crimes I guess but he clearly

[00:40:27] abused her and in the middle of the red light green light she throws down or something and I'm like wow you just tried to murder that guy right there that's uh that's an impulse survival incentive

[00:40:41] vengeance or whatever but um and then I mean just a couple more things about this juxtaposition all the visuals the pink MC Azure like area inside the games compound the uniforms are very

[00:40:57] simple and colorful and I think the green of the contestants looks weak compared to the sharp red of the administrators my favorite is that they all have well in this uh this is a little bit

[00:41:09] spoiler but in this episode you only see a square and some circles on their faces you get triangles later and I don't think it's an accident that those are the shapes on the PlayStation

[00:41:18] controllers because it just makes you think about game things you know and just so um yeah I think that's also a key part of this is that juxtaposition of the child like with the disturbing David

[00:41:35] so starting this point with the disclaimer I am no expert on Korea or Korean media so this is just totally an American perspective on the shows and movies that I have happened to see

[00:41:50] that our Korean themed or regiant from Korea and it might be a statement about what tends to be important to the United States for mass media but these themes in the story of poverty hopelessness

[00:42:04] and social standing uh in the inability to move between social stations that um is maybe partly but not totally based on economic standing or their common and central themes in every Korean

[00:42:19] movie or show that I have yes. Paracite is the best so good. Yes so Paracite that's a directly what it is about but in um in beef which we um watched and podcast about which is about

[00:42:34] Korean Americans and other groups um trained a boo song which my favorite zombie movie plugad okja the host pachinko um even loss now this is an American show with one Korean story line

[00:42:51] but that's kind of what the Korean storyline is about. You really get a sense that's a big that's on their minds a lot and yeah yeah yeah we just what we're getting but I feel like it

[00:43:02] probably is Korean sledge-knows. Yeah right and it's just in all of these um movies and shows to you know maybe various facets and differing degrees uh but one thing they analysis the game for

[00:43:17] this game is about to start is um everyone in this room has crippling doubts and is now on a cliff edge and um to whatever extent that is or is not true in Korea it made me think of our country and

[00:43:30] society so um we live in a country where the gap between rich and poor has grown exponentially over the last several decades uh and there's a lot of economically hopeless or desperate people in

[00:43:43] our country uh who have crippling debt um whether medical debt or whatever kind. I don't think we have quite the same social hierarchy uh as many older societies do because we're younger society but

[00:43:59] we definitely have the economic one and in that way I felt like that might be partly why Squid Game resonated so much here because uh that the made sense to people it's an issue here as well.

[00:44:11] Yeah and it like Veronica said it gets you thinking like what would I do in these situations because um money is attractive. Yeah I think it's attractive but it's also like the I think there's

[00:44:26] this point of privilege when money becomes attractive and when you're below that point it's just necessary um um and like I think that whole saying about like money doesn't fly happiness is absolutely true

[00:44:39] but I think there's a threshold to that too and it's like you have to get those basic needs needs met and when you have people that are literally living that desperately especially in these

[00:44:51] societies where it's not really necessary that anyone should be living quite that desperately it's just it's crazy and I don't want to get it's really super duper political but I saw I heard somebody say

[00:45:04] recently and some people probably will think this is political but um that if you're a billionaire you're like the dragon sitting on your pile of gold that you're never going to be able

[00:45:15] to do anything with while people suffer who could use it and I thought that was pretty insightful. I'm sure it's just another level of addiction right like it has to get heavy any you know I think

[00:45:26] when we see that many people that get to that point that are literally hoarding like it are our human brains were we evolved to hoard things because resources were limited

[00:45:39] like we have not our brains have not changed enough in the time it took us to go from that state of being to now where we live in such excess like our brains are still built to say like hoard

[00:45:52] for and you really have to you know we have the ability to outthink that but you have to get past those base instincts and I think most people do I would say to put a little like silver lining on it you know

[00:46:07] just not everyone and unfortunately some people who are super skilled at hoarding don't don't get past that yeah and to put your point in another way bronchon I think that that really comes through in this show is money may not buy happiness for those who are well enough

[00:46:26] often have their needs met but lack of money can certainly buy unhappiness and we definitely see that and you see well we don't really it's very mysterious what's going on with this

[00:46:40] organization who's setting up these games but we do see this guy the front man it what looks like a lavish room with art and he's got his whiskey in his jazz and just sort of kicking back

[00:46:52] looking at this carnage on his screen and it looks like just a rich dude having some entertainment and so it just feels like the dehumanization of the lower classes kind of a thing you know

[00:47:07] so there's a real statement there yeah I mean he he's a front man and he picked up the phone to say bets are open so it's not even just his own enjoyment like they're

[00:47:18] betting on human lives is the insinuation at this point yeah but it's like we saw geohoon go to the horses races and now we're seeing these guys go to the human hunger games yeah whatever okay I'm going to do what I just a quick one on rules because

[00:47:36] there's a lot of rules for different things in this episode and in the show and the squid game that childhood game that we see is super confusing to me I feel like it's the kind of game that you

[00:47:48] need to play a couple times to really get it but if you guys know better than I do let me know at once I'm finishing what I think but it's in this court supposedly shaped like a squid although

[00:47:58] I don't really see it um children are divided into two groups the offense and the defense once the game starts the defense can run around on two feet within the bounds while the

[00:48:08] offense is outside the lines then they can only hop on one foot but if one of the attackers the the offense cuts through the center the waste of the squid it gets past the defense

[00:48:19] then they can use both feet and the object is basically to go around to the bottom which is where you can enter if you're an attacker and go up through the bottom and then once you're in if one of the

[00:48:34] defense pushes you out the near out of the game but if you are in and you make it to the squid's head then you win so I guess if you're a defender the only way to win is to push all the

[00:48:45] attackers out and you all win together. Is that seem right? Thanks so I think the only thing you didn't mention that the kid very clearly stated it was out of your out you die. Oh yeah that's

[00:48:55] right. You die. Which I'm like I'm saying I hear that 30 times a day in my house if not more. There's this game that I don't know how to pronounce but dock G which is where this

[00:49:09] agent of the game people find a gui-hun in the subway I guess as the red blue paper and you try to throw your card at the other guys card to make it flip over. I feel like we should play

[00:49:22] this game there's instructions on how to do it do the folds and we can make bets and play against each other we should do it. Sometimes that was an interesting game I've definitely have never seen that before.

[00:49:35] It was interesting because yeah pugs. Geon sucked at it and this guy clearly is so practice you can do it every time if he wants to it seemed like anyway. Yeah and geon was like oh yeah.

[00:49:49] I'll play even when anyone is not. But the guy let him choose which one he wanted and let him go first so give him every advantage. He knew what he was doing. At the game's compound they say everyone

[00:50:03] participates in six games over six days so that's the premise of the series. Those who win all six games get a big cash prize and then you see that pig come down and they put more money in every

[00:50:13] day but we don't know how much it is yet. At the game's compound they have to sign this player consent form. Clause 1 a player's not allowed to stop playing so you have to keep going no matter what

[00:50:24] a player who refuses to play will be eliminated. Eliminate is the vague word and I- It's like when kids say die in a game you know you would presume that means you're out of the

[00:50:36] game and then it says games may be terminated if the majority agrees so they can all just agree. Let's take a vote and see if we want to stop this. And then the last one I have is for red light

[00:50:50] green light which you're allowed to move forward when this creepy doll girl shouts out green light and then you have to stop when it shouts red light. If your movement is detected after she says

[00:51:03] red light you will be eliminated again not clear what that means but the squid game's wiki maybe you guys both know this says that in the Korean version of this game the players are allowed to move

[00:51:13] while the doll says the day he biscuss bloomed in Korean. That's the Korean version and it kind of makes sense because she's not just saying a word and saying another word she's saying the same thing

[00:51:26] over and over again and while she's saying it that's when they run. So it makes it a little easier if once you figured out but who would figure it out in that scenario when people are dying all around

[00:51:35] you but you can kind of get a feel for how much time you have where there's red light green light you never know when that bastard is going to turn around and say red light. Yeah I noticed watching

[00:51:43] it both iterations I felt like it seemed like it was what have been easier because you hear her like pattern of what she's saying in Korean but then it's so different and the English dubbed version

[00:51:55] it's just the red light quiet or green light red light. Yeah and you kind of feel like the ones who are going to survive or have a chance of progressing in this game are the ones that just

[00:52:08] most quickly to what the situation is right half of them were shocked and ran and just got killed but the ones who very quickly were able to pick up okay this is life and death I get it.

[00:52:20] Yeah we're able to continue. Yeah and I think there's a pretty good chance especially if I didn't know ahead of time what the stakes were as soon as I saw people being shot I would probably

[00:52:31] panic and run. I don't know for sure what do you guys think? Not about me about yourselves. Like yeah you'd panic. I mean impossible to know how you would react in a situation I do love

[00:52:45] games and competition so I'd like to think I would make the adjustment quickly. Then I could see that actually no honestly. I could see just freezing actually. Yeah I could freezing and get

[00:52:55] killed because of clock around. Yes but as soon as I realized if I froze and I saw that clock I think I'd get my shit together and do it. What about you Veronica you'd be a pro right?

[00:53:09] No I don't know I mean I feel like we're just having a conversation where I talked to big game about being cool under pressure but we were talking about how because I'm doing the walking

[00:53:19] dead rewatch and these zombies attacked the camp and Lori kind of panicked and didn't protect her child and she's like how we don't really protect but now you're saying in this game you're not sure.

[00:53:34] Yeah I don't know I mean it's different to right it's just yourself but I was taking some of scientists like the way you test anxiety and fear in my sister put them into an open field

[00:53:46] and most of the time they're going to want to stay on the side and if you mess their jeans up and they're more anxious they only stay around the edge and so this was putting all these

[00:53:56] people and they were not mice but out into an open field test so it's already sort of just concerning to just be out in the open and if guns all started opening fire I think I would

[00:54:10] probably have been one of the idiots such as ran like you're just wide open. I wish I could say I would be still maybe if I had a child with me I would be. Maybe that's the magic thing I need to be

[00:54:25] protecting someone else I don't know if I trust myself when it's just me. Well hopefully I'd say there's at least a 50% chance none of us will ever have to fight that out and I think I don't

[00:54:38] remember for sure but I think this is the most disturbing moment in the show I might eat those words but that's my memory. Not that there aren't more disturbing moments to come but

[00:54:52] yeah and then the other thing I was going to say is that the other thing that happens here in the first game you know as we're still learning just as they're learning what the rules really mean

[00:55:04] is our hero gets saved by a fellow player who still puts his humanity above the rules of this game but I think even as that is happening you're kind of wondering what I wonder how long that's going

[00:55:17] to last. And I'm thinking maybe Gehoun is going to be in a position to help the other guy or there's going to be some dynamic at play with these two you know I really don't remember so if that

[00:55:33] does happen it's not because I'm spoiling I'm just that's why I thought I'm moment. Yeah I think also if I'll tell me like saying who took a pretty big risk there too in just talking

[00:55:47] Gehoun through it through like getting up when he was under the body. I don't think I would have wish I could be brave enough but I don't think I would have talked when that doll was facing

[00:55:59] towards them and he even at one point looks back at him because he knows he's behind another person but I don't think I would have felt that confident to do that. So you saw a couple of people

[00:56:10] stick their neck out for others. I really talk about this like hey character yeah. Okay Veronica you're turning. I have more to talk about by the way on that sequence but

[00:56:24] I was planning on just talking about straight up rules but it's hard enough to get into the rest of it when you bring it up but go ahead Veronica. Yeah I mean I think the other big thing

[00:56:33] that I had down was just to talk in general about that red light green light scene. I've already mentioned about how I think what actors in this series portray across their face is pretty cool and

[00:56:46] I think in that scene where the woman that had the young woman that had defective from North Korea I think she's number 67 so she's behind the gangster 101 and I know you already mentioned

[00:56:58] about a balzia was that she pulled him down but I think just watching his face he went from like very angry at her to just like completely full of fear and he went from sort of this tough guy

[00:57:13] front to this very scared child just like in the blink of an eye with his eyes and I thought that was pretty interesting. I mean he's only been portrayed as a pretty despicable guy so far and not

[00:57:26] someone worse the post alike. And then to have him make it through after that makes it suddenly way more interesting to see what's going on after those two after this. I definitely thought he was

[00:57:37] gonna catch back up to her and pull her back again he seemed very determined to get her. Do you guys have more we could just sort of keep talking through if you had more about this scene?

[00:57:50] As I mentioned that the game's a little different in the Korean version where she's saying something and you go while she's talking but I'm glad they for us Americans changed it to

[00:58:02] red light because that was a game that I played as a kid and so it hit more like it was nostalgic and it made it even more fucked up like your turning this game that I played for fun into this

[00:58:14] horrific thing. Did you guys play that? I did. Yes. Yeah I thought another interesting thing about the scene of this scene we're talking about is all the different perspectives we get it from.

[00:58:27] So we get it from the perspective of various players. We get it from the inhuman perspective of the motion sensing killer doll, Chuck E. Doll or whatever she is. We get it from the perception

[00:58:44] of the gamblers. So the video view from above and then also the tracker that eliminates them when they are killed and at the very end we get it from a high perspective showing us that what the actual

[00:58:59] setting is of this whole thing. Yeah with its faux forests, dome, enclosure thing. I thought at first it was in my head that the doll had guns for like eyes or something but watching now more

[00:59:15] carefully I see there's like little turrets all around the walls. I thought it like we don't I don't remember if I knew I think I probably did I think it got out that this red light green

[00:59:29] light game was gonna end up you got shot if you got called red light and we're moving so I think I might have known that but still just watching how the players find out where one player

[00:59:40] 324 runs out ahead of everyone else all gung ho is caught on red light boy says player 324 eliminated and then the guy who he had just been talking to number 250 dumb shit got caught and then

[00:59:52] here bang and he falls to the ground and it's like whoa I could see where you might be like what happened there was that like a drink dart or did he just like he was eliminated so he decided to play

[01:00:07] you know play it up or something I think I could see how you wouldn't just think oh my god they shot him and they didn't know ended at least they didn't fully give over to that that you could see

[01:00:18] there's a lesson in there by the way about jumping ahead before knowing what the hell's going on but then he had made this goofy goofy face which is another sort of child like thing where when

[01:00:29] they were lined up to get their pictures taken and the thing would say smile and it's like reminds me of the DMV or when you get your passport but you're not allowed to smile so this is like

[01:00:37] a juxtaposition but anyway so we see that him with his goofy face and then it disappears and it's like oh I guess he he's dead right and if you were watching this and you didn't know ahead of time which

[01:00:48] some of the listeners did because they got pulled into it by me sorry um then you might not know either but then the guy who had said dumbass got caught or whatever it's green light he runs up

[01:01:03] you could stop messing around you know or whatever and then he sees a spinning blood and fleek freaks out and he's moving around and he gets killed and then the blood spatters all over

[01:01:14] a woman's face number three oh six and she screams and she shot in the head dead and then everybody knows like it's like a dominoes or I don't know it's like just suddenly a spread rapid fire

[01:01:26] to everybody mass panic and that's when they all start running and they're gunned down and players crawling to get out and that's when I was like thinking oh crap I should have probably

[01:01:36] worn people about this because it's so messed up it's so awful watch and they play the jazz music and you're like alright this show it's crazy with the creepy animatronic jazz band there's a guy who is shot grabbing the guihun's leg saying help me and I didn't feel

[01:02:04] judgmental at all for him not helping because what the fuck is he gonna do it's like get let go of me I'm gonna die if I like you if I you know I mean it was a shitty situation but

[01:02:16] there's nothing to be done about it yeah I felt similarly I was trying to figure out what they wanted us to like what's there something when they were trying to tell us about in that moment

[01:02:28] like because I didn't leave feeling like he was calis like no I felt like oh that would probably be traumatic knowing you can't do anything and you just have to walk on it it was

[01:02:38] thrilling in a messed up way and then yeah there's this time limit and he gets through just the nick of time one second left half a second and then of course everyone left standing

[01:02:50] just get shot and I guess that's about all I had to say about it. I did have one other thing and I don't think we've talked yet about player number one oh oh one and just uh his uh

[01:03:07] you know he was the first one to start walking again after sort of the mass shooting of everyone after that big freak out didn't seem too fast and I think him moving by as what seemed to

[01:03:22] get everybody else going he had a bit of a grin like he was just playing a children's game as he stood forward and then absolute elation across his face as he jumps across the finish line

[01:03:37] so yeah just interesting that he didn't seem didn't seem faced by it he did tell of you know our main character that he's got a brain tumor and he's I guess on his death but anyways so maybe

[01:03:52] he doesn't care but just thought that was interesting his reaction to all that. Yeah I mean I just thought it's probably a combination of his dementia and his um it like you said he's about to

[01:04:06] die anyway and so I um felt like well if it's just about that you're good to die anyway and so you're not going to sweat it then that does seem pretty callous not to worry about or

[01:04:19] feel anything about all these other people so I wasn't quite sure what to think of him but if it's also a lot because of the dementia and he doesn't realize quite what's going on then you can't

[01:04:28] really blame him too much right yeah when I think he also plays the game with a child like in a sense and that seems to sort of be the secret to performing well at it yeah he seems to be the one

[01:04:46] at least to follow if you're not sure what to do see what those guys do him yeah he plays this child child's game like a child yeah if you were a child playing this game and you somehow

[01:04:59] would be shielded from the horror around you even though I don't know how that would be possible but if you were then you'd probably win all right anywhere are we I can't remember oh I think it was

[01:05:11] Ron and his turn so it's your turn David if you have any more um the only other point I wanted to bring up is just the visuals of the show and the game which are very striking and I really think

[01:05:24] in addition to just the success of the show that's probably what has inspired the challenge game the reality show it it's just so visually unique and compelling that it instantly reminds you

[01:05:38] of everything you felt for the squid game show and I think if the whole game had been more pedestrian looking it would not have been so impactful though and cut on the way it did but um

[01:05:51] you know as you've mentioned the red jumpsuits the masks with the symbols um that kind of even more intense costume of the front man when we we met recently in Boston a bunch of us listeners who are

[01:06:07] part of my patreon group and we got an Airbnb and we were all together and we had a night where because it was near Halloween where we had a costume party and this one woman Franca came

[01:06:17] down and I didn't know she was going to have the song but in her squid games outfit oh yeah that took me backwards second is the only one I felt anything like that about oh oh yeah that was pretty creepy when

[01:06:30] she had that mask on it was just sit beside you I think that was definitely the Halloween costume of that year for sure like the best one but so that is very visually striking and then the building

[01:06:45] itself and all the various games that we're going to get to see that this first game kind of reminded me I was lucky enough to go see the YouTube concert at the sphere and wow I know it's cool yeah

[01:06:56] and that red light green light game that kind of reminded me of the sphere it's this giant painted room with like a painted ceiling and then they opened up the ceiling and it's the real sky is it

[01:07:08] true that every seat has amazing sound I can't answer that because I didn't sit in every seat but I can't say that my seat had amazing sound nice but the video aspect of that thing is pretty amazing

[01:07:21] but that red light green light game reminded me of that and then there was the crazy stairway and the costumes and and I do remember all though not all the details I remember there's some

[01:07:31] pretty visually stunning stuff to come as well so they they really spent a lot of effort and imagination and I'm sure money on that and I think it really paid off for this show yeah

[01:07:42] there's like all these different important factors that make the show just sort of a cut above and that's one of the big ones I think for sure okay I want to talk a little bit about how the

[01:07:53] game people operate so I think this will be one of my last points of what not my last one the form that the gangster debt collectors loan sharks made Gihun signs said disclaimer of physical

[01:08:08] rights on it and I don't think he noticed that and later the newly trimmed guy on the subway with suit said he's you signed away your physical rights so I think they paid the debt

[01:08:24] collectors to turn them on to desperate people that they could recruit for the game just smart yep and then when he you know makes contact with him at the it was it in the subway I keep saying

[01:08:35] that I don't want to keep saying if I'm not wrong if I'm alive okay in the subway so at first Gihun has zero trust in the guy of course and I thought it was so funny that he pointed

[01:08:47] that gun at him and then he fired the lighter thing because you think oh he's gonna force him to go away and just right away he fires the lighter which is like no he's just telling him to

[01:08:58] fuck off it's so good and then anyway so he had zero trust in him and tell the guy he's like all right fine opens a suitcase full of cash and that got his attention really quick because it's what he needs

[01:09:10] and then they play that slapping game with the red and blue paper and I thought that was interesting progression too because he appeals to his gambling addiction playing a game that he

[01:09:21] knows he's gonna win this agent guy and when Gihun loses the first round it doesn't have any money he's not at all surprised and he says how about you pay with your body and slap him and says

[01:09:32] it'll take off 100 grand per slap which is about 80 bucks I think I think that's getting him used to accepting being humiliated and dominated and ordered around and exchanged for money you know it's

[01:09:44] just a small taste just lowering him down at a level there do you think then that this whole game any part of it was a test like did they have to progress to a certain point of taking

[01:09:58] slapped their desperation for them to be like okay we're gonna invite this person to play I think the only thing they care about is whether they can get the people to play you know what I mean so

[01:10:10] they're looking for the people that I think they can get to play because they're desperate enough that would be my guess um that they've got old's young and everywhere in between so I don't think

[01:10:20] they're looking for a certain kind of person except whoever they can get there but that's just my suspicion but then the guy's smart he lets Gihun win and I think he wins a lot but when he

[01:10:30] wins that first one you can see that same endorphin rush to his head and he's looking him into that gambling addiction thing he becomes a source of those of that endorphin hit and so then he

[01:10:44] says well there's other games like hey there's even more and then Gihun when he says hey I'm desperate I'm not that desperate so the guy's hearing alright I need to get him in a more

[01:10:56] desperate place so he just proceeds to run through all the reasons why his life is fucked up and that's where a great way of saying is backstory that you read earlier David what it

[01:11:05] making him more engaging about all the debt he's in and how much he owes and everything and um then yeah looking at his daughter's pictures he decides to go for it so anyway presumably they

[01:11:16] tell him oh I love that the card by the way from that that the guy gave him is just a circle triangle and square and just a phone number on the back it's like the smallest amount of

[01:11:24] information you need plus a little style but uh presumably they told him where to get picked up and I love the mysteriousness and foreboding this I've had it's a dark place that no one's at

[01:11:36] and a van drives up in a guy in the red hood and he's got his ass password and gets in and everyone's asleep and he's like oh and then he gets gased and then when he wakes up in this room stacked with

[01:11:47] the multi-level bunk beds which is another childlike thing by the way bunk beds. Everyone's in the same uniform it's demonizing they all have numbers even the red hooded figures are sort of dehumanized and then when the door opens and the red hooded dudes with masks come out

[01:12:03] in the guy with the square on his face steps forward and lays out the rules I think the squares are the leaders the managers by the way I already said the rules so then but I love how they knew

[01:12:16] had a handle the reaction like this one guy I think it was um Gihun's childhood friend right Joe saying who says you broke the law you kidnapped us I demand to give us something in return

[01:12:30] and then the square I just the manager guys just clicks a button and it immediately starts showing humiliating things about his life and screaming for everyone to see and then goes through uh

[01:12:39] how much other people oh and that's just like all right before you guys get all high in mighty you're all desperate and if you thought you were maybe the only desperate one then maybe you

[01:12:50] could think I know and just know that I'm just gonna be like everyone else but as soon as you know that they know that you're desperate and everyone else here's desperate and we all know it

[01:12:58] then you're just cowed you know is this real quick getting everyone into submission so they really know how to get people under there to do what they want them to do and then there's they're always getting consent which makes it more interesting

[01:13:15] they're trapped because they agreed to be and the square mass guy even gives them one more chance to choose to go home which is really interesting and he wouldn't disclose the prize amount

[01:13:27] until after the first game I think because then it would be more interesting to see whether people stayed to play not knowing how much was it stake I don't know why why they chose the writer's

[01:13:38] chose to have him not disclose the prize amount I mean we still don't know I guess maybe just to keep another mystery out there I don't know but um well I think the players don't

[01:13:48] know the downside yet yeah that's why they don't know the downsides they don't know their life that's I think that's why they don't want to tell them the upsides take and I've been critical

[01:13:59] about well like I've been complimentary about them perpetually making it so that they opt in that it's by consent but they don't know their lives are at stake so that kind of erases all that

[01:14:12] and maybe you could look at this contracting go you know technically it says you've given over you know all the right to your physical body to us so we can kill you if we want but no one

[01:14:22] would presume that you know and no one reads contracts anyway and so um that's the part I feel critical about that they're making out like it's all consenting but the contestants don't realize

[01:14:31] their lives are at stake they should say it straight up lots of people are going to die doing this if they really want these people to be consenting players well I I think that's the whole point

[01:14:43] that's being made the greater point that's being made about society here it's the illusion of opting in it's the illusion of the choice you've selected all these people that are desperate they don't feel like they have a choice and let alone that maybe they don't have full information

[01:15:02] and I think it is very interesting at the rules of the game allow for a majority vote to end the game much like in any democratic or quote unquote democratic society we all have that power

[01:15:18] we could end poverty and hunger tomorrow with a majority vote if we don't choose to yeah and I think that's the the greater point they're making here is that these folks don't choose

[01:15:29] to even though they could there's always the chance that you could be the winner right yeah that's exactly right and that's yeah that's the same way it is in our society but we'll see whether

[01:15:40] or not they choose to do that but for now um now they do know the stakes so now we'll see yeah we'll see I mean it seems like all these contracts are more about exerting control over the people

[01:15:54] that are signing them like I don't think someone signing away their rights to their body like I don't know what is legal in Korea but I'm assuming that if you then still someone's kidneys and

[01:16:07] I that's probably not going to hold up that you got their bloody fingerprint on the contract and the contract they're having them signed at this game like you know that's not going to protect these people legally in any way but it's sort of this additional exertion of control

[01:16:25] over the people well you signed it like yeah it's more about psychology it's getting them in this mode where they're like okay I I I so I wanted to be here so let's play this game versus

[01:16:38] what the fuck is going on here let's figure out how we can overpower these guys and get out you know yeah it kind of to me felt like signing a um like your credit card agreement or something like

[01:16:48] as if you had a choice yeah that's true yeah well they do though I mean they when he says you can leave and no one leaves they had a choice right I was thinking they were about the um hey if you don't

[01:17:03] want me to kill you right here and now sign over the right to your kidneys okay we also do sometimes we show you a note segment that where we have any random notes that didn't really fit into a larger

[01:17:14] point do either way if you have anything for that. Terek Baki I don't know if I'm saying that correctly but um the food he sort of ashamed of that he buys his daughter for her birthday uh my head

[01:17:27] not heard that before so um simmered rice cakes and when I read about that is it's described as the ultimate Korean street food um sound delicious so yeah I don't know why those good for you down

[01:17:41] upon it yeah sounds good to me um gone you the actor who plays the the recruiter who finds him in the train station also is in train to bosom one of my favorite movies of all time

[01:17:54] and favorites on the movie one thing I think was interesting in this episode and I think and continues throughout the show is just numbers seem important uh and symbolic so his daughter's birthday

[01:18:08] six eight is um his mom's bank pin and it's also the numbers of the winning horses so there's a little bit of destiny there that goes with numbers and enough course all the contestants are numbered

[01:18:21] the old man is number one q-hune is number 456 the last number sort of emblematic of his place in life I feel like all the numbers in the show have some sort of symbolic meaning mm mm mm mm

[01:18:36] and then um one thing I noticed this time that had gone by me the first time is um the tough guy when he's sort of beating up on the pick pocket and he says who do you think you are you going

[01:18:51] going soon or something and I I didn't know who that was so uh you going soon was a Korean independence activist against japanese colonial rule in the early 1900s and became very famous as

[01:19:05] a symbol of the of resistance um was nicknamed by some korea's Joan of Arc and uh died in a Japanese prison in 1920 at age 17 so there's some parallels here about the the society that was being

[01:19:21] dominated and what it cost to resist that and it it was just kind of a quick throwaway line mm mm and then the last one I have is um I was reading about uh squid game the challenge

[01:19:35] just various articles about it and um this one made me laugh from business insider so they say um in 2021 Netflix released Wang Donghook's drama about people competing in lethal games in order to win money and get out of poverty

[01:19:53] the show quickly became a global cultural sensation now Netflix has turned the hit series into a reality show adapting challenges from the game without the death element I just thought it was funny

[01:20:05] they felt like to say that. Thanks for clarifying the business insider we're getting to a stage where it might be needed yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah music all right back it's time for some news about squid game news 18 dot com says filming first squid game

[01:21:07] season two started in July of this year and it's expected to last 10 months and be released in late 2024. Let's say um writer director writer and director right didn't you write and direct

[01:21:20] wing done yep it said a while back he was in talks with Netflix over seasons two and three so there could be at least two more seasons coming uh you think they're gonna be any good I mean I kind

[01:21:31] of thought this was a nice tight first season you know where are they gonna take this thing yeah no idea that's what's hard for me to imagine but I'm sure check it out I'm hopeful

[01:21:46] um the guardian has an article about the best shows to stream this week and their picker the week is squid game the challenge the reality show version of which they said there's no dialet doubting this reality shows commitment to the original South Korean drama's concept

[01:22:01] the contestants wear numbered green track suits and live in a massive dorm with identical bunk beds but as hundreds of players scrambled to win $4.56 million the largest prize in any reality TV it's clear that what landed perfectly as sharp anti-capital satire in the show often feels

[01:22:18] bleak and ruthless when acted out for real that's not to say this isn't hugely watchable as the strategizing in alliance making begins it's hard to take your eyes off the unfolding spectacle but as the games take their toll clearly no endise but there are tears and panic attacks

[01:22:33] a plenty you might feel a little grubby afterwards just doesn't make me necessarily want to watch the little thing yeah it's not surprising they're really just going for and there's another article on telegraph dot com slash or dot com dot UK squid game the challenge though is first

[01:22:52] fully immersive the guards never break character there's no respite the aim is to recreate the awful tension and claustrophobia of the original South Korean drama explains why despite this being a game show the participants take it all very seriously they're a very bunch although almost all

[01:23:08] are american from an insufferable frat boy to a molitude Kentucky redneck a virtuous Mormon to a middle-class mother and son duo the tears and hyper ventilating are not faked when they're eliminated a radio controlled blood pack actually black dye this is giving away some

[01:23:24] stuff hope guys are okay with that but the color of squid ink concealed beneath their clothes is some of the contestants fall to the floor as if they've been gunned down i promise we didn't

[01:23:35] tell them to drop like that they just did sent one Netflix insider so um over the two weeks of filming the crew went unseen when it was impossible for them to stay behind the scenes they

[01:23:46] went out and disguise so they're really just trying to make it like the thing and then the daily beast had an article saying the series was filmed in this studio in London and fans of criticized

[01:23:57] Netflix for misunderstanding the entire point of squid game which is that human shouldn't have to sacrifice themselves in their morality to earn enough money to live but Tim Hardquart and executive producer on squid game the challenge says that message was commentary in the drama series alone

[01:24:12] and that the reality show is different quote you could criticize a star wars ride as ignoring the fact that star wars is an allegory about an uprising over an evil empire that is one aspect of

[01:24:22] star wars harcourt hotel tells the daily beast but what doesn't negate the possibility of deriving further stories from it but that doesn't negate the possibility of deriving her i'm like I'd say the difference is you're not delivering another star wars story by subjectting people

[01:24:36] to being ruled by the empire and filming it yeah yeah i'm fascinated to watch the reality show at least once yeah and i don't love reality shows honestly i think they're who can try but

[01:24:51] so fascinating with squid game that i have to watch this to see but it part of my fascination with it is i think they almost comically missed the point of squid game or more likely intentionally did

[01:25:05] with a chance to make some more money on some other show related to it i think i'm going to watch the whole thing just so i can talk about it on the podcast and if you either one of you don't want

[01:25:14] to i'll find somebody who wants to just chat about it with me for a few minutes you know and i can add tackets at the end or whatever but i am feeling pretty critical of it even though i'm also

[01:25:23] fascinated to watch it yeah they also did take some criticism for um the thing they got the most criticism for that i've seen is that the filming of the red light green light apparently took

[01:25:36] place in very cold conditions and people understand there for hours on end and it actually really was not so good yeah there's a little bit more here it says more backlash for squid game the challenge came after February rolling stone expo's a included testimonies from players who

[01:25:52] referred to the show as the quote cruelest meanest competition ever and accused it of being quote rigged the execs behind the series denied those claims Steven Lambert another executive producer says remaining impartial is actually a hallmark of reality show the key thing is that this was

[01:26:07] a game where Netflix was giving away the largest pro reality show prize ever had to be incredibly fair but um yeah there's controversy in talk of harsh conditions and stuff i'm incredibly like

[01:26:20] uninterested in watching it based on that description but i also know from my track record with reality TV that even when i'm absolutely disgusted with it like once i start i can't stop like

[01:26:32] even the absolute worst of the worst reality TV so i have a bad feeling that's the first episode one episode i'm out i'll watch the whole thing so yeah i mean i've seen at least three or four

[01:26:46] or now maybe five or six episodes of the bachelor and the bachelor at not for years though i finally broke the habit all right let's move on from that and do some listener feedback uh if you're

[01:26:59] listening and you have thoughts you want to share questions about the episodes we'd love to read them or if you call in play your calls actually send us a voice message we'll play it

[01:27:09] and we'll respond and we put a post up each week for whichever episode we're covering in our podcast to get Facebook group which you can comment there and we'll read it

[01:27:18] or you can email us or send voice message to talk at podcastica.com all that's in the show notes with links in case you forget or you can always just go to podcastica.com and all that information is

[01:27:28] there too uh we actually didn't get any feedback specifically on episode one but when i announced we were covering it people seemed into it so we're gonna read some of your comments on that and we'll

[01:27:39] see if that if it picks up over time or if people just decided they didn't want to watch it again we'll see so Veronica you'd like to go first yeah so Shannon Della grant Puba Goers says i'm in

[01:27:53] alright. Oh time listener nice uh Jillian Loury says okay this is good i need something to fill the gaping void that white lotus is left now that it's finished yeah we just finished covering

[01:28:05] that me and my wife Jenny and our friend Randy and that was such a great show to cover Marie Alasan says i put off watching this one just due to having to find the time to watch

[01:28:15] something with subtitles and actually give it my full attention but now that you're all covering it all make time. Well Marie I hope we're still friends and let me know what you thought. Speaking of white lotus Randy Stevenson says i think i downloaded the wrong version

[01:28:31] the protagonist and this one is really in detentacles looking forward to the podcast hopefully it clears things up for me and also just not a related net Randy will be starting podcast about that show. So it's called board cast. Nice. I'm Amanda Kay Presto

[01:28:49] Jocamos says i watched Squid Game the first time with the English dubbing and then six months later i rewatch the whole thing with the American subtitles and experience that Veronica is now replicating. It truly made a big difference you can hear the tone in the voices that the

[01:29:04] actors had and that emotions that they were trying to convey that get lost in the American voice actors opinion i really didn't like player 212 until i rewatched due to this interesting

[01:29:18] to see if anyone else thought this. I remember which one that is. No sure well get it out of the way. Yeah i think we met. But i personally i always prefer to watch shows another languages

[01:29:34] in their original language with English subtitles. Because i want to hear the actors performances and i don't mind reading. Usually when i podcasted about something i'll watch an episode twice and watch it like higher speed the second time and pause a lot and take notes so

[01:29:48] maybe i'll try watching the dub blown on that because a lot of times i'm also taking notes while I'm listening and that won't work with the show so i might like watch it with subtitles first

[01:29:56] and then watch it dub the second time but dub is usually bothered me i don't know i haven't tried it with show with the show maybe they're good quality but usually they are kind of goofy and take

[01:30:06] me out of it. It feels a little goofy so i watched it twice for the podcast so now i guess i've seen this episode three times um because originally i had watched it dubed and so i didn't even know you

[01:30:19] could like adjust it's the first time i watched that's all i just watched what played so yeah i watched it and Korean and then i watched it dubed like right before we podcasted tonight and it was interesting

[01:30:31] to compare so closely yeah it just comes across kind of goofy on the dub. Yeah i think it's kind of humanly amazing how much you can get from watching people speaking that language you don't

[01:30:43] understand but reading what they're saying you're somehow your brain is able to pair what you're reading and but also take in their motion and facial expressions on the sound of their voice

[01:30:55] and make it into one thing. My ex mother and the law actually is Mexican and she completely learned English by watching American soap operas because people are so expressive so even if she didn't have Spanish subtitles they're just speaking English she could get so much from the overly

[01:31:16] expressive body language they were using and that's how she learned English which was pretty amazing what is you watch i don't know which one. There's the answer i might have watched it. Yeah it's interesting one one interesting show to watch that i mentioned earlier was Pachinko

[01:31:36] which has a lot of Japanese in and a lot of Korean and I believe they did the subtitles in two two different colors so just in case you couldn't tell just to make sure you know

[01:31:48] these group of subtitles or Japanese and these are Korean. I was in Taiwan this summer and we went to see the flash which was horrible and they had I guess Taiwanese or Chinese subtitles but it

[01:32:04] was in English they just had the English language version it wasn't dubbed. I was happy as an American who wants everything my way. Even our terrible superhero. That's right yeah. All right that is our show thanks so much for listening everyone hope you enjoyed

[01:32:34] so much to talk about with the show next up it's gonna be able to say two hell. If you want to write in or send us a voice message about it you can find all our contact

[01:32:43] information at podcastica.com and while you're there be sure to check out our other shits. Yeah if you like dark things uh strange indeed has a lot of that and they're covering follow the house of usher right now which is Mike Flanagan's latest Netflix show

[01:33:00] Pachinko Rima on strange indeed love all the Mike Flanagan shows and they really get into it and they're very enjoyable to listen to so I would recommend that one that's when I'd recommend.

[01:33:10] I gotta go listen to that we really enjoyed the house question. I haven't gotten into it yet I need to because I've loved all the other ones especially mid-MS. It's a lot of fun it's

[01:33:18] better if you know the old post stories. Yeah lots of good references and I'm a big weanie so that other Mike Flanagan shows often really scare me and then someone's a little less scary so

[01:33:32] if you're like me this is the one to dip your toes into. I least if you can tolerate squid games I think you can tolerate it. All that's what I'm sure. Alright that is our show. Thanks for listening. Red light!

[01:33:55] Alright we're still talking and that's because we're gonna do this spoilery segment I mentioned earlier where we talk about a couple things not much but just a few things that happen later on in the

[01:34:05] series that relate to this episode so if you haven't seen the show and you don't want to be spoiled then you should just stop listening right now thank you bye. So I'll I'll if you guys have

[01:34:18] stuff just jump in after me but I'll go first just showing kids playing squid game at the beginning is a great way to tie the beginning to the end where the squid game is the game that they play and I

[01:34:28] kind of I probably suspected that's what they're gonna do but I'm glad they did. Did you guys have anything else? I think it was just cool seeing how quickly they had set up a lot

[01:34:38] of the people that are gonna be in alliances or set up against each other this early in. Yeah I think that was kind of kind of cool to kind of know who was gonna be important and see

[01:34:51] that they were all being introduced this early. It makes sense in the first episode but you don't catch that early. I don't remember paying that close attention to the first time.

[01:35:00] There's one really annoying woman that we haven't seen yet right? Yeah the one on that ends up sort of into the thug guy with the tattoo. Yeah I was happy to realize I do not remember a lot of the

[01:35:11] deep plot. Yeah so this show except the broad stroke so the detail that will mean I'll really enjoy it the second time round. The only character I really remember a lot about is the old man. Yeah

[01:35:22] Who I think we did a pretty good job of pretending like we didn't know that he's the main villain of the series. I know I was like trying to very carefully bring up you know his actions in the

[01:35:33] because it was all stuff that if you're paying attention you see happening you just don't know why he's remlining so cool and calm during the. That's one reason why I was excited to watch

[01:35:44] again to watch him because I never did that you know we have to be careful as we're podcasting to try not to give that away. It's number 001 it's so high. And the fact that he's 001 means he's

[01:35:58] James Bond no that was still 07 and and Gihun is 456 first in last numbers it's a clue that they're both important like you said David it's the game creator and the game winner. And then we mentioned

[01:36:14] the only other thing I have is we mentioned you know I still even with your great explanation David feel a bit critical that they oh maybe I feel I definitely feel less critical but

[01:36:25] I was talking about how they pretend to give consent even though the players don't actually know the stakes that there it's life or death but later they do decide and I might be in this next episode

[01:36:38] I can't remember that okay we're gonna end the game a majority of players vote to end the game and they do but they all decide to come back so that after that they are fully consenting

[01:36:50] because they know the stakes. I could not remember Alice like I'm sorry as well as happen with him outside and I was like does he leave is there like a dream sequence like I

[01:37:05] couldn't remember why I had all these other memories of him interacting with him. But for me that's interesting because you know all these dead people they didn't get that choice but these people who chose to come back knowing they could die they're fully consenting to this and

[01:37:24] I will talk about it when it happens but I think this could happen I think there could be people who would choose to do that I would never do it but I pay my debts. Yeah you can't know if

[01:37:38] you would until you're as desperate as they are. Yeah that's right. Yeah.