10: "VIPs" (Squid Game S1E7)

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah!

[00:00:02] Hmm.

[00:00:04] Podcastica!

[00:00:09] If you can satisfy me in five minutes, I'll change your life.

[00:00:24] Hmm.

[00:00:26] Ah!

[00:00:28] Ah!

[00:00:30] Satisfied?

[00:00:36] If you can satisfy me in five minutes, I might literally...

[00:00:41] Hmm.

[00:00:57] Oh!

[00:00:59] Oh!

[00:01:08] Hey everybody, welcome to the Podcast I'm Jason.

[00:01:11] And I'm David.

[00:01:13] And I'm Daphne.

[00:01:14] In this episode we're covering Squid Game Season 1 Episode 7, Vips.

[00:01:19] Let's get into the VIPs.

[00:01:21] Welcome back, Daphne. Glad to have you back.

[00:01:23] Glad to be here to talk about this one.

[00:01:25] I missed you last time.

[00:01:27] I know.

[00:01:29] You had a loss of power, we didn't really mention it, but it was storming over there.

[00:01:32] Yeah, New England got hit with a huge Norrister and it basically took out power for 400,000 people in my state.

[00:01:42] Oh my god.

[00:01:43] Well, glad you're back up and running and back with us.

[00:01:46] Me too!

[00:01:47] But no zombies?

[00:01:48] No zombies.

[00:01:50] Oh, I'm sorry.

[00:01:51] That's a bummer.

[00:01:52] I'm looking forward to seeing you again in this week's episodes, Squid Game Season 1 Episode 7, VIPs.

[00:01:57] Daphne would you like to read the summary?

[00:01:59] Sure.

[00:02:00] So the players returned to find Minyo who did not have a partner for the Marvel's game.

[00:02:05] Still alive.

[00:02:07] Foreign VIPs who had been wagering on the games remotely, arrived to watch and wager on the next round's live.

[00:02:15] June Ho, posing as one of the mass servants is sexually propositioned by one of them.

[00:02:21] In a private room he attacks the VIP, records his confession and escapes the island.

[00:02:27] Meanwhile, the fifth game has players crossing a two-panel wide bridge where the panels are each made of either tempered or regular glass, the latter of which cannot support their weight.

[00:02:39] The players at the front of the line fall to their deaths as they progressively test the panels.

[00:02:45] Jyoksu refuses to move despite the clock ticking, daring others to pass him.

[00:02:51] Minyo grabs him and as revenge for betraying her, pulls him down with her to their deaths.

[00:03:00] Player 017, a seasoned glass worker is able to determine which panels are safe until the front man turns off the lights, removing his advantage.

[00:03:10] With time running out, Sangwoo pushes player 17 to his death, revealing the last trick panel.

[00:03:17] Only Jihun, Sangwoo and Sebiok complete the game, at its conclusion, explosions, shattered the remaining panels and injured the three players.

[00:03:29] It's so dramatic.

[00:03:32] Yeah.

[00:03:34] So how is it to watch this one again, Daphne?

[00:03:37] I enjoyed it because this is one I liked the first time around.

[00:03:42] Because Jyoksu gets his comeuppance, which makes me very happy.

[00:03:49] And also because Minyo is the one to take him out plus the fact that she continues to needle him and get under his skin makes me really happy too.

[00:04:02] So...

[00:04:03] Yeah, it was... it really was poetic.

[00:04:06] Just as the VIP said.

[00:04:09] She took him out.

[00:04:11] We get to meet the VIPs, which... to me are the scum of the Earth.

[00:04:16] And yeah, I was happy that Junho was able to kind of get the upper hand with one of them.

[00:04:26] So that made me happy as well.

[00:04:29] Yeah, a little bit of payback. What about you, David?

[00:04:33] Overall, another great episode, as I would say they all are in this series.

[00:04:41] The star of the show in this episode I think is that fifth game itself, which is compelling very dramatic and sort of visually spectacular.

[00:04:52] I thought this episode had some weaknesses.

[00:04:57] I enjoyed the VIP segments of it less than the game portion but we'll get into that as we talk about the details.

[00:05:06] But overall, still very compelling and dramatic.

[00:05:08] It starts right away with an emotional shock, which is a wee being put into his coffin.

[00:05:13] So that brings you into this episode very quickly and it remained very exciting from there.

[00:05:20] Yeah, and I mean, seven episodes in you would think that might not be so shocking but it really was.

[00:05:26] And I'm like, I think it's just because we've had time to get to know these people.

[00:05:31] And this is really the first death, the first tube with Ali and the old man where we kind of care about the person who died.

[00:05:39] I think, can't remember anyone else that we've really cared about that much.

[00:05:43] No, I think you're totally right. It's not just the shock of someone dying now.

[00:05:47] It's someone you came to care about in the show.

[00:05:50] Yeah, we got to know them. We got to care about them.

[00:05:54] We're interested in where they're going.

[00:05:57] And then they're taken away from us much like they're taken away from their friends.

[00:06:02] When fortunately had to be the ones to take them out inadvertently by playing the marble game.

[00:06:08] Yep, well and also when Ali is laying there in his coffin, I kind of flashed on the fact that his family's never even going to know what happened to him.

[00:06:17] Yeah, it just disappeared.

[00:06:19] Oh, I know.

[00:06:21] Yeah, it's very sad.

[00:06:24] Maybe you told him.

[00:06:26] I thought it was great. I thought thrilling and messed up.

[00:06:32] It manages to be different enough each week that it feels fresh, you know, but still have similar screwed up qualities or twisted qualities, I should say.

[00:06:44] But I actually think, I remember watching the first time thinking I didn't like the VIP segment as much either.

[00:06:52] And I do think they're very unsettled caricatures.

[00:06:59] Although that maybe that's just me being overly charitable to the ultra wealthy and that it's exactly how they act.

[00:07:04] I don't know.

[00:07:06] Anyway, I got more out of it this time now that we're studying it more closely though.

[00:07:11] But I agree with you.

[00:07:13] I don't know if we have the same reasons but I didn't like that stuff quite as much.

[00:07:18] But I still think it's kind of crucial to this whole thing though.

[00:07:22] Agreed.

[00:07:23] I think it added the element in some ways that we knew that everyone else was watching.

[00:07:31] You know, all of the people, they're a little computers but it just made it to me even more sad that this is not only a game for money and a game to the death but it's entertainment for people.

[00:07:47] Yeah, and to them that's all it is.

[00:07:50] Yeah.

[00:07:51] And that's the only reason why it's happening so these people can get their rocks off.

[00:07:56] So what's your most fucked up moment of the week?

[00:07:59] My most fucked up moment of the week is in the show not in this year.

[00:08:06] Well, the other day.

[00:08:09] So for me it definitely is song will pushing number 13 to his death in a hurry even though I knew that we're running out of time.

[00:08:22] I just felt like he jumped the gun and it's just this further descent into being the sociopath that he is.

[00:08:32] And so for me, it was fucked up.

[00:08:35] You know, the bridge game as a whole was a fucked up man.

[00:08:38] Yeah, it is.

[00:08:39] So there were a lot of little moments in there that were fucked up.

[00:08:43] People pushing and shoving each other and except for Doug Sue.

[00:08:47] That was very happy about it.

[00:08:51] It was fucked up.

[00:08:53] He wouldn't let he wouldn't go.

[00:08:56] You wanted it else to go.

[00:08:58] I thought it was just like Ashley, but anyways.

[00:09:02] That moment, well we'll talk about it when we get to it.

[00:09:06] Mine is the fat VIP dude once June Hota take off his mask and then when he June Hose says

[00:09:15] if I do they will kill me later instead of saying, oh well let's go somewhere else.

[00:09:19] The VIP guy says, well if you don't do it then I'll kill you.

[00:09:23] So it's just like saying I'm going to have my way with you and then you're going to die and I don't care.

[00:09:28] That was the most fucked up moment to me.

[00:09:32] Well, I think it sets the tone right away that these people are at least this guy in particular looks at them as all expendable.

[00:09:40] It doesn't matter to him.

[00:09:43] It just objects.

[00:09:45] Yeah, everyone that's there is meant to be there to be played with basically by the VIPs.

[00:09:53] Yeah, let's go ahead and put it. David?

[00:09:57] This whole episode is a buffet of fucked up in us.

[00:10:01] It just all feels dirty.

[00:10:04] I didn't fully register the first time I watched this episode that they're using people as human furniture.

[00:10:10] Which also like to sit on.

[00:10:14] They're arresting their own people.

[00:10:18] Don't forget number four.

[00:10:22] Resting his head between the woman's boobs basically.

[00:10:26] That led to a very funny moment in succession for you succession watchers.

[00:10:30] I love this.

[00:10:32] Reference to human furniture.

[00:10:34] But I agree with that.

[00:10:36] I thought the moment that took the cake out of this thing was Songwoo pushing that other guy to his death when he didn't even necessarily need to do it.

[00:10:44] I don't agree with you guys because this guy had a 50% chance and Songwoo was just saying hurry up basically

[00:10:52] because if he would have landed on the tempered glass then as long as he could hold on and didn't fall, he would have been fine.

[00:10:59] Yeah, but he didn't give him the opportunity.

[00:11:03] He didn't.

[00:11:04] He just pushed him way more fucked up stuff than that.

[00:11:06] You got to hurry up and make your choice.

[00:11:08] Or all you get a choice.

[00:11:10] No pushing someone and saying hurry up are two different things.

[00:11:14] Yeah, it is.

[00:11:15] But it's like one minute left.

[00:11:17] I think I might have done the same thing.

[00:11:20] Was welcome to move on by if you wanted.

[00:11:24] Just say this guy's first.

[00:11:27] Go fucking go we're going to die.

[00:11:30] Alright, let's get into our points.

[00:11:32] I'm not taking the number ahead of you next time.

[00:11:36] No, no.

[00:11:37] Me and David are going to be playing the room scale VR version of this this weekend along with Karen and Jenny and Nico.

[00:11:45] Okay.

[00:11:47] David on my strategy days.

[00:11:49] Push Jason to be first in every competition.

[00:11:54] And I'm interested in hearing how this goes.

[00:11:57] I mean, so to be sure like I think it was fucked up of saying when to do that.

[00:12:01] But I wouldn't call it anywhere near the most fucked up thing because this guy was going to have to choose one of these two glass panels anyway.

[00:12:08] He was himself.

[00:12:09] He didn't get to pick right or left but still it's like yeah you had a 50-50 chance.

[00:12:13] He had a 50-50 chance with Simon who was pushing him he had a zero chance.

[00:12:18] No, because he pushed him.

[00:12:20] He pushed him.

[00:12:21] He took the opportunity to make a decision out of the guys.

[00:12:25] There was still a 50% chance.

[00:12:27] Yeah.

[00:12:28] And he touched that glass that he was going to push him onto the right one.

[00:12:31] It was not his choice.

[00:12:32] What if, okay, what if Sangmoo pushed him and he landed on the correct one?

[00:12:36] And then it was fine and he got to the end.

[00:12:38] You would say that Sangmoo did was wrong.

[00:12:41] You'd still say that was the most fucked up thing in the episode even though.

[00:12:44] That was yeah.

[00:12:45] I mean, I think David's right.

[00:12:47] I think it was a very fucked up episode overall.

[00:12:50] But for me as someone who's watched this art continue between Sangmoo and his.

[00:12:57] So so she a path in tendencies basically I think that you know this just continued that.

[00:13:05] Yeah.

[00:13:06] Alright.

[00:13:08] Okay, let's go on to our points.

[00:13:10] What's your first point?

[00:13:11] Okay, so my first point.

[00:13:13] It's so hard to choose because there are so many things.

[00:13:18] Yeah, but I'm going to start off by I'm going to rip the bandaid off.

[00:13:21] Okay.

[00:13:22] I want to I'm going to talk about one particular situation and this is basically.

[00:13:28] Minyo getting her just revenge on Duksu in that whole situation.

[00:13:34] And it starts when they come back from Marbles and there she is sitting there.

[00:13:40] Like she's the queen.

[00:13:43] And he walks in and he's he's obviously pissed off that she's there.

[00:13:49] Freaked out too, I would say.

[00:13:51] Yeah.

[00:13:52] And she mentioned something that I've resonated with in this show and also with the challenge series.

[00:13:59] It's like when nobody chooses you for things when you're a kid it is hard.

[00:14:04] I mean, that is that reminded me it took me back to you know playing kickball or some of the other dodgeball.

[00:14:11] And not getting picked for different teams being the last one picked.

[00:14:16] It's it's not fun.

[00:14:20] But she I mean, she takes it to a new level because she's cackling like she's like she's a witch.

[00:14:26] She's just so happy to see him coming in and she's berating him and she's you know he looks so pissed off.

[00:14:34] And yet you see all of the other people coming in and some of the others are just you know they're really sad because they lost somebody.

[00:14:43] Like someone he'd either connected with for a couple days or for the length of this game.

[00:14:49] Or in some cases the man who lost his wife, I mean this was a serious thing and he's just he's just pissed off.

[00:14:57] And in the glass stepping stones over the glass bridge, you can see him once he gets up there that he's not he doesn't want to make any decisions.

[00:15:08] He's pissed off and pushes a guy off to his death.

[00:15:16] And then up comes Minyo and she's just had enough.

[00:15:20] I think she probably feels that the potential for her to be eliminated during this round is pretty good because of the fact of what the game is.

[00:15:33] And decides at that time to take him out.

[00:15:41] But she doesn't in such a way about her by you know saying well I'll pass you and she then she grips him once she gets on to his tile.

[00:15:55] And so did you really believe I'd die so you could live you betrayed me now you're going to die.

[00:16:02] And then she feeds him the final insult before leaning back and taking him down.

[00:16:08] And if you think about it, I mean he fed her garbage basically saying oh we'll be together when he was having fun with her in the bathroom.

[00:16:20] Also that you know she said to him if you betray me I'm going to kill you.

[00:16:25] And so I mean really it's no different than Rick and the red handle machete in the walking dad she told them I will kill you and she did.

[00:16:36] So I this that was my favorite moment of this episode just because I've been waiting for it.

[00:16:46] And the first time I watched it it felt awesome and this time it felt awesome again.

[00:16:53] Do you have anything to say about it David in particular that moment?

[00:17:00] Yeah it was absolutely riveting in climactic the final confrontation between those two.

[00:17:09] I wouldn't put all of it on one side. I think Minyo and Ducksou were using each other they were.

[00:17:16] And it does go back pretty deep toward the beginning of the game.

[00:17:23] I mean it really started when he wouldn't choose her for the tug of war.

[00:17:26] Yeah.

[00:17:27] And then extended into the Marbles game but this has become a blood feud and you do not want to have a blood feud with somebody in that environment.

[00:17:35] Yeah especially she's clearly the kind of person who will put vengeance over her own self preservation and maybe she thought there was no option for her to stay alive.

[00:17:48] So she might as well take him out with her.

[00:17:50] Yeah.

[00:17:51] But either way it was so satisfying to see because he thought he didn't pick her the whole time because he thought she wasn't formidable and she ended up being his undoing.

[00:18:00] It's come to that's absolutely right there's iron there.

[00:18:03] It was a fascinating teblow where the two of them were stuck there and Ducksou has made his way through the game the same way he made his way through the outside world by bullying and threatening others to give him an advantage.

[00:18:20] Yeah.

[00:18:21] That's how you play glass.

[00:18:22] Yeah, glass bridge.

[00:18:23] And in this case there isn't really a very effective way to do that and I think she recognized quite clearly there that she wasn't going to make it anyway.

[00:18:32] Yeah.

[00:18:33] So she went out on high note basically.

[00:18:38] And I don't believe it.

[00:18:39] So I actually don't blame her.

[00:18:41] You said you wouldn't put it on both sides and I wouldn't totally but I put it way more over on his side because even though yes she was using him at least she stuck to her word he's the one that betrayed her you know after telling her that he she never betrayed him

[00:18:56] I don't think so.

[00:18:58] No, she didn't she.

[00:19:01] She took him at his word but she also held up her end of the bargain by saying you know what if you do this I'm going to kill you.

[00:19:11] Well, she did that.

[00:19:12] I mean she kept her word that that's what she was going to do and I think some of the other contestants or participants were put off by her erraticness.

[00:19:24] I was.

[00:19:25] Yeah, I mean that comes across in her character that she's very kind of unstable and erratic and she just runs from person to person trying to get someone to you know be on my team and.

[00:19:39] She's mean a lot of times she is.

[00:19:42] Yeah, but there's something poetic about that scene and what it did.

[00:19:50] I mean honestly it took a big threat out of the way of contestants I liked better that I really enjoyed and I thought like David said it was like the star of this episode was that contest the glass bridge.

[00:20:06] And I thought yeah it was so striking and we'll talk more in detail about it but I do think they were kind of the center of it you know their conflict with the center of that game.

[00:20:16] Yeah, and it kind of took place in the middle of the bridge.

[00:20:21] David got a point.

[00:20:24] Well let's talk about the game since we've touched upon it.

[00:20:30] You know really at the center of this episode so we start this fifth game after the suicide of player 69 there are now 16 players left.

[00:20:45] And that to me meant some of the pairs must not have completed the marble game because there should have been 19 pairs after a minio is the 39th player and didn't find a partner so that was what it means.

[00:21:00] Yeah, there were 19 pairs and only 17 made it out so a couple of the pairs must have not finished and both died.

[00:21:09] And then with the suicide were down to 16 so again this game begins as many of these games have with the game masters forcing the players to choose something without knowledge choosing the shapes choosing teams or teammates in this case the order of the game without knowledge of what the game is going to be.

[00:21:32] Then once we find out what the game is basically at random chance it would be two to the 18th power would be your chance of successfully navigating that course that I make that one in 262,144.

[00:21:50] If you're player number one yeah if you're player number one and it's random and you have no no way of figuring it out so essentially impossible.

[00:21:59] And then the odd slowly improve with the information you gain as those in front of you go and choose wisely or unwisely.

[00:22:09] But it's still essentially impossible to get through by chance until you get to the last couple squares.

[00:22:17] I mean even with three squares to go you have a one in eight chance which isn't too great getting it right.

[00:22:25] So one of the things I thought was interesting about this is this is a risky game for the stages.

[00:22:33] Risky in the sense that with a time limit and very poor odds there's a pretty good chance that all the players are going to be killed in this game.

[00:22:44] So I thought you had to maybe suspend the little disbelief on that one or wonder if there's some way they would have stepped into determine a winner or would the winner maybe have just been the last one that got killed but they could easily have had no one make it.

[00:22:59] Yeah that's what I thought too and especially with this glass manufacturer guy hat seemingly having an edge and then the frontman took it away by turning some lights off.

[00:23:11] And I'm like well don't they want some people to finish because the timer's almost down and we know from when June I was looking at the records there does seem to be a winner every year so I wondered what if all the timer ran out everyone dies then what.

[00:23:26] Yeah I felt like he was probably taking that advantage away for betting purposes like smoothing it out from the eight days that makes sense yeah but still that leaves my question.

[00:23:38] Yeah it risked no one finishing at all for sure.

[00:23:44] So all that was great compelling and I thought the other things that made this game so compelling.

[00:23:53] You know first of all irony as there always is throughout the show so player 96 who beg to go first this is the first time in his life he was going to take charge and have the courage to go first so.

[00:24:05] He switches with key who he takes number one game takes number 16 and then whoopsy that was not the right thing to do that was pretty much a guarantee of his death.

[00:24:16] So we finally tried his whole life he sat back scared and now he is finally going to take control that's what it got him right and Gihun who was sort of had frozen in decisiveness through a lot of this game from the choosing on.

[00:24:33] And that actually ended up playing okay for him lucky although it didn't in all these games.

[00:24:42] And then I just thought the way the game played out was really dramatic so you have the one guy who I think was the math teacher.

[00:24:50] But that he was like figuring out the odds and then he was like oh shit there's basically no way I can do this and he was like okay i'm going to make it happen quickly and he started running.

[00:25:02] And after I checked it I think he went right right left and then left and died but it happened so quickly it was hard to tell.

[00:25:14] And then if you're behind him you would need to have that information.

[00:25:18] So this game you have to have the physical balance to like not fall off of these things while you're scared but then you also have to remember stuff.

[00:25:27] Yeah it would be really difficult under life and death pressure.

[00:25:37] And then the last thing that really struck me about it is so at the end of the game right where we had the three players then who did navigate it successfully.

[00:25:49] Then they blew up the bridge and injured all of them.

[00:25:53] And it just struck me again that they go through all these speeches and you know declarations about how fair this game is within its rules but it really is not fair to the players because that was completely unfair to have that happen with no warning after they actually did pass through.

[00:26:17] But in any case all sorts of dramatic moments, Sabio saves Gihun after he forgets the starting title title because he's all freaked out.

[00:26:25] So I think we ended this game with probably two sympathetic characters and one unsympathetic character.

[00:26:32] I would agree with that for sure.

[00:26:34] Yeah I have to agree too.

[00:26:37] So I was just...

[00:26:41] I don't think he's the worst by far but I do think he's bad.

[00:26:45] He's bad yeah no I think there were others that were worse but he definitely of those that are left he's definitely the worst.

[00:26:53] Oh yeah no question about that because I love the other two.

[00:26:57] Yeah me too.

[00:26:59] The thing I loved about this game was the small model representation of it that the front man was tracking it for the better so that was cool looking too.

[00:27:08] It was cool and I think it was very symbolic because it sort of equated the players with game pieces you know.

[00:27:16] One thing about it is I do hope David that you do end up watching Squid Game the Challenge because I don't want to give it away but when they get to this,

[00:27:29] the contestants do something really interesting in the way that they play it.

[00:27:34] Yeah I think you'll enjoy it.

[00:27:36] Something that I don't think the organizers expected that made it awesome actually.

[00:27:43] That's a good tease.

[00:27:45] Yeah yeah let me see if I had anything else.

[00:27:49] I mean I just love the striking look of it that it's high up like the tug of war but I feel like in this bit and there in this big circular,

[00:27:58] circus tent-looking thing with all these leaps of faith and the glass dramatically breaking when someone guesses wrong

[00:28:04] the mangled bodies below is so horrible and then the idea that the more people who die in front of you the better off you have it which is dark very squid game darkness.

[00:28:15] And then I also think the level of cutthroatiness of the games has escalated with this game especially when it became clear that they can push each other off or push each other under the glass to test it out.

[00:28:30] The tug of war was pretty brutal because you had to kill the other team but it was so very straightforward that's what the game was and this one it was more like I almost wondered if they were all just going to start pushing each other in the you know once they figured that out.

[00:28:45] But the fascinating part of this game strategically is you need the others that's right like somebody ahead of you doesn't get almost all the way to the end you have no chance.

[00:28:55] That's my point yeah and then and then adding the timer just made it like if it wasn't already stressful enough you only have a few minutes to do it.

[00:29:05] Well, Jihoon even asked number 13 when he's trying to determine which of the tiles is the tempered glass on which one is the real glass why why didn't you help anyone else and.

[00:29:20] He was pretty honest and just said you know they've been trying to kill us this whole time so why would I have told them that I knew how to check the glass.

[00:29:32] And I think that's pretty telling of the type of people that were left at the end of this game.

[00:29:38] You know before at the start of the bridge game I think it's pretty telling a lot of more not great people.

[00:29:48] At least in his eyes.

[00:29:50] I mean it would be hard not to well no I still think if I was in this game I would be hoping that more than one of us could make it through to the end that we should be trying to help each other as much as possible and share in whatever was left at the end that's what I would be hoping.

[00:30:07] Still at this point as naive as I might seem so I wouldn't be like yeah trying to sabotage anyone or whatever when they when they did start pushing each other.

[00:30:18] I thought I started to wonder what would have happened in the Dalgona cookie game if one player started going around and breaking all the other players cookies you know I think that I'm surprised I didn't occur to them.

[00:30:35] They didn't know they could do that yet.

[00:30:38] Yeah, at that point.

[00:30:39] And they were all really focused on just trying to get their cookies out.

[00:30:44] I don't think they were thinking past it.

[00:30:47] Okay I think it's my turn right?

[00:30:51] Yes.

[00:30:52] So I have a point called power control and risk because I think there's a theme of the illusion of control in life or the idea that we can never have full control.

[00:31:06] And that you know everything we do is a risk to one level or another but the ultra wealthy and ultra powerful are insulated from their consequences of their poor decisions or their risks that don't pay off.

[00:31:21] So when number 69 lost his wife and he was depressed and wanted everyone to vote to leave.

[00:31:31] And I guess they can vote at any time.

[00:31:33] I don't know that wasn't totally clear to me but it seems like it.

[00:31:36] But you know the others resist and saying we'll kind of talk some out of it if they were even thinking about it.

[00:31:44] And it just made me think about how like in our country in the US we have a democracy.

[00:31:50] And that gives us the feeling that we have some control in how things go which is true to a degree of more people vote for something than that thing will happen but there's so many forces that control what we can even vote for, what's on what's being you know on the ballots.

[00:32:09] Like the wealthy can buy off legislators through lobbyists or donations things.

[00:32:17] And they also pump out propaganda through media and advertising that convinces masses of people to vote for things that aren't in all of our best interests.

[00:32:27] You know like selling the American dream if you do something that's regulatory then it will make it harder to do business so you can't get rich.

[00:32:36] And meanwhile we have climate change you know something like that may have just betrayed my politics there but anyway.

[00:32:43] So that sort of reminded me what's happening here with number 69 like if not for that piggy bank full of money all of them could have gotten out of their alive but it's well I think you put your finger on a good point too which is we don't actually know if they can vote to stop the game at this point.

[00:32:59] I mean we know the letter of the law might say that but would they have actually allowed that to happen at this stage in the game?

[00:33:05] I don't know.

[00:33:06] Yeah maybe not. I mean what I'm saying right now sort of depends on that they could but you're right maybe it doesn't even matter anyway but that's even more of an illusion of control I guess.

[00:33:17] Yeah and I think it goes right to your point that we don't even really know if they could have voted or not.

[00:33:22] Yeah I think they could.

[00:33:23] Yeah and then when they had to choose the numbers for the game that felt like another iteration of you're never fully in control they're brought into this room with mannequins with numbered vests and have to pick without knowing the significance which is super stressful because well there's so many situations in life where we have to make decisions with limited information and without fully knowing the ramifications

[00:33:49] and we just do our best with what we know and we try our luck.

[00:33:53] Should I go to this college? I think it seems good. I move across the country, uproot my life, try it out. Take this job whatever.

[00:34:01] And the VIPs I thought it was super interesting that they were also betting without knowing the games.

[00:34:09] You know one of them said so well you bet on brain or muscle this time and they wouldn't tell them.

[00:34:15] You know they didn't know what games are coming up I had forgotten that and I think it's interesting because both the VIPs and the players have to make these decisions without limited knowledge but there's so much less a stake for the VIPs even though they're betting millions of dollars

[00:34:34] it's just the point of Squid Game is how in equal society is, how these guys are the ultra-alter richest I'm sure.

[00:34:41] And so even though they're like just the fact that they're like saying oh I bet on number 69 because 69 like they're not even trying to gather smart information

[00:34:51] they just have so much money to blow that it doesn't even matter and yet with these guys like I mean the players it's life or death

[00:35:02] and I thought it was interesting when one of the VIPs says you never want to be first and he got upset when the guy he bet on pick number one

[00:35:10] and I think maybe that's like a rule of business that you never want to be first like Apple I noticed I'm a big fan of Apple I follow them

[00:35:18] and they're rarely first on anything they iterate on something that's already out there and try to make the best version of it but

[00:35:26] it sounded like maybe this guy you know spoke from experience of how to navigate life or something

[00:35:32] but anyway so this guy who begged for number one and then it turned out to be a bad decision

[00:35:40] and if they're I think we've all had situations where we really tried to make something happen

[00:35:50] and in the trying we fucked it up you know and if we would have just done nothing it probably would have been better

[00:35:57] so that's another way that there's like this illusion of control that they're showing here

[00:36:04] and both the players and the VIPs can make these decisions that will either serve them or not but it's just the consequences that are different between them

[00:36:15] that's what I had to say about that

[00:36:18] definitely better to do nothing sometimes actually have a little philosophy around that which Karen does not always like

[00:36:25] what's that? I'm like see it just took care of itself by me doing nothing

[00:36:30] it's like it's that read the doubt they take

[00:36:34] yeah I like to step back and think for a little bit I don't like to

[00:36:40] something I'm afraid to go first but it's just I like to process and just think through it first rather than just making a snap decision

[00:36:51] because I've been burned too many times by making snap decisions and I think a lot of times when you make a decision very quickly

[00:36:58] sometimes it's done with emotion versus you know critical thinking

[00:37:03] yeah like people say trust your gut then sometimes you can't

[00:37:08] at least not your first instinct but so Daphne when you if you

[00:37:15] can you like try to forget what the Glassbridge game is and think about what it was like when you first saw this episode

[00:37:23] and they went into the room and had to pick the numbers and what you probably would have done or what you would do if you were faced with that

[00:37:30] you know what I would have done what everyone else did and gone to the middle number me too

[00:37:35] because that's what my gut would have said you don't want to go first you don't want to go last you want to go later

[00:37:41] and honestly I probably would have gone in the 10 to 14 range not in the you know seven to nine range

[00:37:49] I would have gone a little bit later

[00:37:52] I was thinking I was thinking similar I was thinking yeah like there were 16 numbers right I was thinking probably nine

[00:38:00] right in there and then immediately afterwards the VIPs were talking it through just like we do they're basically the audience like we are right there

[00:38:09] and they're talking through the ramifications they're just like them exactly like that

[00:38:15] and they were saying the same thing everybody always goes to the middle and what about you do you have would you have a similar strategy

[00:38:23] do you think I mean I think the middle makes sense in the absence of any knowledge about what you're choosing

[00:38:28] if there's an extreme in either direction because I think you have to choose on the negative you're trying to choose something that won't kill you

[00:38:36] so you'd prefer not to choose an extreme but it totally could be wrong I mean you really do not have the knowledge to decide

[00:38:43] yeah they could have somehow engineered something where the middle was the worst but it just seems like

[00:38:49] yeah going first could either be really good or really bad and same could go last but it's hard to see how going in the middle could be really bad

[00:38:57] yeah or it might not matter at all it depends what you're playing red light green light you would have wanted to go first

[00:39:04] yeah if they were going in an order instead of as a big group yeah but I think I mean knowing how twisted this game has been so far

[00:39:16] this this whole competition I mean they could have sent them in there and had them pick numbers and said okay

[00:39:22] the odd numbers go over here the even numbers go over here and we're gonna have another tug of war I mean

[00:39:28] or some other strength base game or strike you know strategic game because that's how I think now when I see any shows like this is

[00:39:38] it's never what you think it is at the beginning so you have to throw it out the door and if you have no information

[00:39:44] you have to trust your gut but you have to think about it a little bit first

[00:39:49] yeah and when you don't know what they're gonna do

[00:39:54] you know it's really hard yeah I mean that's kind of my point sometimes we have so little information to go on that

[00:40:01] we just try our best with what we do have and that's what they did yeah he hadn't got paralyzed analysis paralysis

[00:40:12] he did what was left yeah and I think we have to remember to the the perspective of the story being told is from the back end

[00:40:21] right there were they're choosing to tell us a story about some specific characters so it's not like we just happen we happen to choose these few people

[00:40:31] to care about out of 456 people and they happen to get through right they're telling us about a story about people who survived all the way to the end

[00:40:41] yeah because that's the interesting story to tell but I think I think this is very true in life

[00:40:48] people weigh over discount luck luck just plain luck is a big factor in life in the outcome of decisions

[00:41:02] it's not everything it's not like competence means nothing it competence means something and some people are better at taking advantage of luck

[00:41:09] to yes I agree with that but I think that's part of what they're reminding us with these some of these blind choices in this game

[00:41:16] they are literally blind I mean it's just and there's a lot of luck in the games

[00:41:22] that marble game that most of the contestants played is almost pure luck

[00:41:27] well like when you count cards in blackjack the way you do that is I won't go into all the little details

[00:41:36] but basically you just give yourself a tiny edge so that you have like a 51% chance of winning each time versus a 49 when you're usually playing without knowing how to count maybe 52% chance

[00:41:49] so that over time you'll be lucky enough more often to come out ahead

[00:41:55] I'm really interested in if you watch the challenge what you think of it overall based on the conversations we've had on the podcast

[00:42:05] I think that there are definitely some yeah without giving anything away

[00:42:10] but one thing you said about the challenge or about this that I will give away because I think it's interesting

[00:42:17] so we're watching Squid Game where they can focus on these characters that make it to the end

[00:42:22] and they just happen to be characters that have interacted together

[00:42:25] but that's you know we just have to give that poetic license and not worry about it out of 456 you know the ones that make it or ones that have

[00:42:31] but on Squid Game the challenge they couldn't do that they had 456 contestants they had to pick a few that seemed interesting to focus on

[00:42:40] and a lot of those are gone you know and then so that's one way you can tell it's not really rigged

[00:42:45] because then they had to pick different people to follow so it was interesting to see how they how that progressed throughout the series

[00:42:51] yeah and with that number of contestants I mean such a large number and it whittling down

[00:42:58] yeah I'm really interested in what you think of it I really enjoyed it I thought it was a great watch

[00:43:06] well what else did you think about this episode because it's your turn?

[00:43:10] that's my turn okay um let's talk about one of the weaker points of this episode

[00:43:17] which was the VIPs we get to meet these masked men who come into the compound

[00:43:26] to get to watch these games play out on a big screen even though the screens they were watching out at home

[00:43:32] they had equally as large screens you know they didn't want anyone to think that that they didn't have

[00:43:38] these big screens to watch on but they're are they watching on a screen or are they looking through an opening

[00:43:45] actually out onto the bridge I'm not sure to me because they also showed the room where they were picking the numbers

[00:43:54] okay I just felt like it was a screen okay yeah I think they were I think they were watching the actual activity

[00:44:02] I think they were yeah and there was some dialogue about that because one of them says we have huge screens

[00:44:08] like where we live or whatever but we want to see it in person and they had like binoculars

[00:44:15] because I wondered that too I'd made that note like wait they just said they wanted to see it in person now they're watching a screen

[00:44:20] but then when you look again I think it's just like a curtain opened up onto the glass bridge area

[00:44:26] well I thought that those binoculars were absolutely ridiculous but that's my opinion

[00:44:32] I thought it just honestly showed the extravagance that these people are used to in their lives

[00:44:38] that they have to have these fancy binoculars to be able to watch all of this stuff

[00:44:45] when we first get introduced to them all I could think of was the movie eyes wide shot

[00:44:51] where everyone's running around in a mask and it's about keeping identity secret

[00:44:57] which ties into all of the workers that are in this building like having to wear masks

[00:45:05] and keeping their identity secret so much so that if you show your face you're killed

[00:45:13] because no one can know anybody's identity

[00:45:17] but we get to meet they're like six or seven of them that come in

[00:45:23] they do talk between themselves but number four in particular who I just called cat face or tiger face

[00:45:32] because that's what it looked like he's the one that's like I bid on 69

[00:45:37] obviously and then he's like well if I can have 69 then I'm going to have 96

[00:45:43] you know he's coming up with he's not even looking money is so

[00:45:49] he has so much money that it doesn't even matter

[00:45:53] like even if he has been watching this game progress

[00:45:57] he's not looking at which players may have done better earlier

[00:46:02] he's just like I've got some money to blow he doesn't want to lose it

[00:46:06] but he's not paying attention to who could really excel in this

[00:46:12] he seems to care about this maybe a little less than any one of us would care if we were

[00:46:18] upling monopoly with each other you know around that same amount

[00:46:22] yeah and you know it did the whole room the setup in the room is so

[00:46:30] you know people are have body paint they are just you know they're not just

[00:46:40] in the room they are part of the furniture they are part of the ambience they're part

[00:46:46] of everything but they're they're not significant or insignificant they're just

[00:46:52] there and I didn't notice it as much either the first time through

[00:46:58] this watch it really stood out to me that there are people that are just part of the

[00:47:06] furniture and part of the room that you barely notice they're there because they fit

[00:47:12] in so well with with everything

[00:47:17] and of course Junho decides to

[00:47:24] be one of the servers during this whole extravagance that's going on and

[00:47:30] number four as we talked about earlier basically doesn't care and said well you know what

[00:47:40] if you don't do what I want you to do I'll probably kill you

[00:47:44] and but Junho thinks quickly on his feet take gets him in the other room

[00:47:50] number four says if you can satisfy me in five minutes I'll change your life

[00:47:56] well Junho decides to grab a whole list of his junk and says if you can satisfy me

[00:48:02] in five minutes I might let you live and he does let him live I mean

[00:48:10] he's laying down you know he's passed out he knocked about oh yeah that's why you let him live

[00:48:15] yeah steady would yes if he gave him all the surprise me that he did that because he's

[00:48:22] killed at least one probably two other people who are workers and I'm like well it's unfair

[00:48:27] right there why do the ultra rich get to live in the workers don't he gave him the ammunition maybe he needed

[00:48:33] him alive later for whatever happens I don't know

[00:48:39] but I thought you know just getting this glimpse it kind of was repulsive to watch

[00:48:45] because it was kind of the weaker part of the episode but also just really

[00:48:53] reminded me of just how different things can be it's the flip side of what we're seeing in this game

[00:49:00] these people are fighting to get money out of a ball

[00:49:04] and these are the people that are probably putting the money in the ball and blowing

[00:49:10] money and being frivolous with it like money doesn't matter to them so we're getting

[00:49:15] the flip side of what we've been watching on this game the entire time is people fighting for money

[00:49:21] and now we're seeing them throw it around

[00:49:25] it just gave me this feeling like in our society there's people who have a lot of money

[00:49:32] that think on a bigger scale I would say than we do on how they can make things happen

[00:49:40] among the masses that they want to happen right and also that they can avoid consequences

[00:49:49] for breaking the law you know they pay the fine and that's it or whatever

[00:49:54] and I think it's similar to that and I think if you operate it on that level

[00:50:00] you'd be at risk of just losing your empathy or your humanity for your feeling

[00:50:06] for people who weren't also operating on that level so for these guys in the show

[00:50:10] it's like they're playing with toys like you kind of said you know that's how it feels to them

[00:50:15] it's the halves and the half-nots and I feel like if they can use their money to you know

[00:50:22] make all of this happen for their own enjoyment but then if something goes wrong

[00:50:27] you I just get the impression they don't want to be held accountable or don't think they'll be held

[00:50:32] accountable if anyone finds out what they're up to

[00:50:36] and I think that is such a parallel to some things that are going on in the world today

[00:50:43] and so I mean the more Junho goes into this gets deeper and deeper into this

[00:50:52] not just the building itself but learning more about how this all transpires

[00:50:59] and how the competition and the business takes

[00:51:04] he's had to do some really tough things to be able to get through it

[00:51:11] and he's done them pretty easily and despite the fact at the beginning I kind of thought

[00:51:17] he was a good guy and I still think he is I just think that he's getting so much deeper into it

[00:51:24] and now hopefully we're going to see exactly what he plans to do with everything

[00:51:29] that he's uncovered

[00:51:32] yeah I was super curious to know what he uncovered because they left that out

[00:51:36] and I can't remember so

[00:51:38] no I can't either and so yeah I want to know what he's uncovered

[00:51:43] and I mean he's still trying to you know his whole goal in this was to find his brother

[00:51:53] and just I think he's found something even bigger

[00:51:59] do you want to add to that David or yeah so it's funny it occurred to me

[00:52:07] I've been spending a fair amount of time in Las Vegas for sports related work on and off

[00:52:13] and in this VIP area is very much like a sort of exclusive posh sports book in Vegas

[00:52:20] you know like the imaginary after special high rollers like screens live competition

[00:52:27] very expensive food and drink a ten of service sexual favors human furniture

[00:52:32] and extremely high limit wagering so pretty much just described Vegas

[00:52:38] and I think that's true in a place like Las Vegas that does your company pay for all that

[00:52:43] or oh yeah I have a rotation of animal masks that I wear

[00:52:49] but it's what today you know there are people in those places that are essentially human props

[00:52:56] but the VIPs in this episode that whole part of the show I found it less clever

[00:53:07] less cutting less compelling than the rest of the story they were as you said Jason

[00:53:13] they were sort of these gross caricatures that were over the top

[00:53:17] it was a little too clumsy too obvious for me

[00:53:20] it occurred to me on this watch that I think maybe one of the reasons

[00:53:27] I had that reaction is because they were speaking English

[00:53:31] which takes some of the subtlety and mystery out of it

[00:53:35] if that is actually your native language

[00:53:39] where you don't have the barrier of the subtitles or the foreign language to make it a little more remote and mysterious

[00:53:47] so that could have been a factor in taking some of the mystery and aura out of it

[00:53:54] but I thought it was the weakest part of the writing in this whole show

[00:53:58] where it just was over the top and it lacked the subtle teen cleverness of the rest of the plot

[00:54:04] it makes me wonder if they're playing to a Korean audience like maybe of their idea of what rich westerners are like

[00:54:13] and if they're subtle enough for us then maybe it will be too subtle for them or something

[00:54:19] totally and I thought them speaking English probably was part of that choice

[00:54:24] so it may have worked better for the Korean audience than it worked for us

[00:54:27] either that or as you're saying the rest of it being in Korean makes it feel more mysterious to us

[00:54:34] but maybe we're overestimating it and it's all just as cheesy

[00:54:37] I mean maybe

[00:54:39] I don't think so

[00:54:41] I think you're right David you brought up a great point about it being in English

[00:54:45] that kind of bothered me too because it just seemed to take me out of it just a little bit

[00:54:54] yeah and the games and the game situations, the relationship situations

[00:54:59] that the rest of this show sets up are so diabolical and clever and difficult

[00:55:07] and it puts you in that space so I wish this VIPs part of the story had had that same sort of level of subtlety

[00:55:16] yeah but I do think it was like I said before crucial to just show how cavalier they are about the whole thing

[00:55:26] and that it's nothing to them

[00:55:29] but and yet they're the reason why it's all happening you know because it's very central to squid game

[00:55:34] to just talk about the wealth inequality of the world

[00:55:39] so they could have done it in a way that satisfied us

[00:55:42] agreed it was a necessary part of it in some way

[00:55:45] yes I didn't think it was done as well as it could have been done but it had to be there

[00:55:50] yeah yeah yeah I agree with that

[00:55:53] alright let's see what do I want to talk about

[00:55:57] so Junho he's hiding in the frontman's office

[00:56:03] and it was interesting that the frontman was like a full-on Sherlock Holmes

[00:56:10] so he suspects that the intruder quote unquote Junho is still there because he always puts the phone receiver down the other way

[00:56:18] the frontman does he knows the bullet from the intruder's gun belongs to a gun that's standard issue for curry and police

[00:56:25] he wonders why there's a cop there without a partner

[00:56:28] he's just like figuring everything out he can tell that this guy has been in the record room because the drawer is slightly open

[00:56:34] he's saying all of this out loud for our benefit

[00:56:39] you know as if he's like are you here I always put my receiver down the other way

[00:56:44] but I don't know if it would actually make sense for him to tell a graph what he knows like that

[00:56:48] but that's just so we can understand I guess

[00:56:50] but anyway Junho's good luck strikes again because just as he's frontman's probably about to discover

[00:56:56] him someone comes over the walkie talkie saying they found a body on the northern coast

[00:57:00] so that's how present that was he keeps getting saved by things Junho

[00:57:06] it's luck Jason it's luck

[00:57:08] yeah he's got the good luck he should have been in the game

[00:57:10] yeah he would have won

[00:57:12] so they found the body of the guy I guess that Junho replaced and pushed over the edge in the beginning

[00:57:18] right and

[00:57:20] did he trade clothes with him and that's why his ID was on him

[00:57:26] yeah

[00:57:27] why did you go to the trouble of dressing this guy why not just throw him over

[00:57:32] so anyway then I'm just going through Junho's story he trades place with one of these attendants

[00:57:40] and what did you do with that guy

[00:57:44] do we know

[00:57:46] he saw him

[00:57:48] he left him in like the storage room

[00:57:50] yeah

[00:57:51] okay locked him in there I guess

[00:57:53] yeah I think I don't think he killed him

[00:57:55] no I think he just locked him in there

[00:57:57] and so I guess we talked enough about I mean this guy this cat VIP guy saying

[00:58:07] you know takes him into this room

[00:58:11] I think this room was made for this kind of thing

[00:58:15] because there's a lot of overtly sexual imagery in the art on the wall

[00:58:20] lips and genitalia and a hot dog in a bun

[00:58:24] things like that

[00:58:27] and then did you know bite off his penis

[00:58:30] no he just grabbed him really really

[00:58:35] he grabbed him with his hand

[00:58:37] oh okay

[00:58:38] yeah he grabbed his junk yeah

[00:58:40] oh okay I thought he thought he put it up

[00:58:44] okay

[00:58:45] you know he brought him to his knees

[00:58:47] got it okay

[00:58:49] and he said the guy had said if you can satisfy me in five minutes I'll change your life

[00:58:54] do we think he actually would have come through on that and given him a bunch of money

[00:58:59] I don't know

[00:59:01] maybe

[00:59:02] but not that it matters I'm just curious

[00:59:05] but then he

[00:59:08] they did a great sort of transition here where Junho puts a gun to his head

[00:59:13] and he says if you can satisfy me in five minutes I might let you live

[00:59:16] tell me everything you know about the game

[00:59:18] and then the camera cut to the glass bridge timer which was also at five minutes

[00:59:21] with Ducks who they're holding everyone up

[00:59:24] so it's like two situations where there's a timer

[00:59:28] and then the worker finds him unconscious

[00:59:31] and calls the frontman

[00:59:35] it says this VIP has collapsed

[00:59:38] and I thought the frontman's response to that was strange

[00:59:42] you'd think he'd be like what?

[00:59:44] but he's just like is he alive

[00:59:46] and the intruder

[00:59:48] like he knew the intruder was involved

[00:59:50] I just thought his response was a little weird finding out this VIP was unconscious

[00:59:56] it was almost like yeah this happens all the time is he alive

[01:00:00] that was weird

[01:00:02] and then

[01:00:04] one of the dive packs is gone

[01:00:06] and this worker suspects the intruder took it

[01:00:09] and I thought maybe when they knew they had an intruder

[01:00:12] they should have packed up all the dive packs

[01:00:14] yeah I'm not quite sure why things aren't more heavily guarded

[01:00:19] like why there isn't some sort of lockdown

[01:00:22] because I don't get the impression that this sort of thing happens all the time

[01:00:25] but I

[01:00:26] I think because of that

[01:00:28] still should be a protocol in place

[01:00:32] for things like this just in case

[01:00:34] yeah should be

[01:00:36] but it's political license I guess

[01:00:38] but I mean I guess

[01:00:40] just thinking about it

[01:00:42] Junho

[01:00:44] was still

[01:00:46] full on in investigation mode

[01:00:48] enough to put himself in even more danger than before and be in this

[01:00:52] situation with all these VIPs got one of them to the side

[01:00:56] got some information and that was enough for him to be like okay I have what I need

[01:01:00] I'm leaving maybe he asked him about his brother you know

[01:01:04] I would hope so

[01:01:06] yeah just can't wait to find out what comes of that

[01:01:10] I'm more invested I think in Junho's story than ever before now just because of what happened in this

[01:01:16] episode

[01:01:18] I did enjoy the cat mouse game between the two

[01:01:20] sort of around the edges of all this

[01:01:22] I think the frontman was not surprised when something happened with one of the VIPs

[01:01:26] because he knows this and triggers around causing trouble

[01:01:30] it kind of reminded me of

[01:01:32] in diehard where there's this giant explosion

[01:01:36] one of the robbers is like it's the cops and all the

[01:01:38] reckons says you idiot it's not the cops it's him

[01:01:42] and so I think this was kind of like that

[01:01:46] he knows it's him

[01:01:48] one detail we did get

[01:01:50] that we didn't have before is that Junho speaks english

[01:01:54] because he speaks english in the game room

[01:01:58] and the frontman kind of hears his voice

[01:02:00] and I wondered at that moment does he recognize his voice

[01:02:04] was he disguising his voice I think he was disguising and trying to disguise it a little bit

[01:02:08] but that's like a next piece of information

[01:02:12] that we get about both of them

[01:02:14] yeah

[01:02:16] all right um

[01:02:18] Daphne got any more points

[01:02:20] okay um

[01:02:22] I just have notes

[01:02:24] I just have notes now

[01:02:26] so two more quick ones

[01:02:28] one is somewhere we've talked about him a little bit

[01:02:32] but just a sort of circle back around to his journey

[01:02:38] which I agree with you Daphne has been a

[01:02:42] it's been a process

[01:02:44] throughout of his facade being stripped away

[01:02:48] uh-huh

[01:02:50] his of this are being educated

[01:02:52] civilized successful guy

[01:02:54] who more and more

[01:02:56] we're finding out is

[01:02:58] really cutthroat and selfish

[01:03:00] really with no

[01:03:04] mitigating characteristic to that at all

[01:03:06] he's probably the most

[01:03:08] purely cutthroat and selfish

[01:03:10] person there maybe accept ducks or

[01:03:12] couple of the other really brutal ones

[01:03:14] but so at the beginning of the episode he is trying to

[01:03:18] quote-unquote comfort

[01:03:22] Gihun after the marbles game

[01:03:26] and he says about Oyal Nam

[01:03:28] he was just an old man you met here

[01:03:30] that man's partner was his wife

[01:03:32] and then he lectures

[01:03:34] player 69

[01:03:36] he says um

[01:03:38] you just killed the person you are closest to in this place

[01:03:42] because of that money

[01:03:44] and if you leave you think your-your wife will come back to life

[01:03:46] you think you'll be forgiven for killing her

[01:03:48] it's not just the cost of your wife

[01:03:50] that's the cost of everyone who died here

[01:03:52] so I mean just brutal

[01:03:56] um you know no

[01:04:00] pretence left

[01:04:02] of human empathy

[01:04:04] and I mean you could look at it another way

[01:04:06] I feel like if you're saying

[01:04:08] look if you give up now

[01:04:10] all of that was for nothing

[01:04:12] and I thought

[01:04:14] if you wanted to hold this vote

[01:04:18] no talking to number 69

[01:04:20] maybe you should have done it

[01:04:22] tried to do it when you found out the rules

[01:04:24] to the marble game

[01:04:26] versus after you know

[01:04:28] like uh or you maybe you should

[01:04:30] come back here at all

[01:04:32] you know this is what this game is

[01:04:34] and you both chose to come back here

[01:04:36] so I wasn't quite as critical of what

[01:04:40] saying move saying as I think you guys are

[01:04:42] I mean it's not nice

[01:04:44] but sort of make sense on some level

[01:04:46] I think he was really brutal

[01:04:48] um

[01:04:50] I do agree that he

[01:04:52] they should have done it before

[01:04:54] like it's a little too late now

[01:04:56] to me to be doing that

[01:04:58] she was already gone

[01:05:00] I think whatever moral judgment

[01:05:02] you want to put on

[01:05:04] the most notable part to me

[01:05:06] was that the facade

[01:05:08] is gone

[01:05:10] like he has used his charm

[01:05:12] to try to manipulate

[01:05:14] others throughout

[01:05:16] these games but

[01:05:18] like that's over with now

[01:05:20] like we're down to the last few people

[01:05:22] and everybody's innocence has been lost

[01:05:24] and I think the point he makes

[01:05:26] is the right one

[01:05:28] to appeal to these

[01:05:30] to all the players which is the money's in sight now

[01:05:32] there's only a few of them left

[01:05:34] you know it's not remote

[01:05:36] anymore anyone who's left actually has a chance to win

[01:05:38] yeah

[01:05:40] that's a good point go on

[01:05:42] yeah

[01:05:44] and then I think the

[01:05:46] journey his journey is complete

[01:05:48] at the end of the episode when he

[01:05:50] actually just directly physically kill somebody

[01:05:52] um which he hasn't

[01:05:54] done up until now

[01:05:56] right with his own hands

[01:05:58] with his own hands

[01:06:00] he has orchestrated

[01:06:02] yes

[01:06:04] and potentially saved his

[01:06:06] life and Gehoun's life and

[01:06:08] Sebiok's life by doing that

[01:06:10] potentially

[01:06:12] we're gonna disagree on that

[01:06:14] yeah i think yeah

[01:06:16] we probably disagree on this one

[01:06:18] and then we get the other point

[01:06:20] I'm not saying he's good

[01:06:22] I just I don't quite feel as critical

[01:06:24] as I do

[01:06:26] but i'm you know

[01:06:28] close I wouldn't want to be around him

[01:06:30] he's dangerous at best

[01:06:32] yeah

[01:06:34] the other point I wanted to make was that

[01:06:36] I think um

[01:06:38] it's really the first time this episode that we get

[01:06:40] satisfying deaths

[01:06:42] like deaths you're kind of rooting for

[01:06:44] and um

[01:06:46] and that made me feel a little dirty

[01:06:48] like you've been corrupted now

[01:06:50] watching this thing for

[01:06:52] years and your standards have changed

[01:06:54] um this ends also

[01:06:56] all media for the last like 20

[01:06:58] years

[01:07:00] they're not all but you know

[01:07:02] game of thrones and

[01:07:04] right yeah

[01:07:06] but so episode six

[01:07:08] Gone Boo with the Marvel's game was

[01:07:10] the episode of heartbreaking deaths

[01:07:12] O. L. N. the old man

[01:07:14] G. Young

[01:07:16] Ali Abdull

[01:07:18] retroactively poor player number 69's wife

[01:07:20] who's got a lot of

[01:07:22] good news about this episode

[01:07:24] has deaths that are

[01:07:26] a couple of them that are more

[01:07:28] pleasing than depressing

[01:07:30] and so you get the annoying

[01:07:32] praying guy

[01:07:34] who thinks he's special in the eyes

[01:07:36] of God

[01:07:38] he himself kills somebody

[01:07:40] and then thanks God

[01:07:42] uh for it which is just

[01:07:44] really messed up

[01:07:46] I don't think any of us

[01:07:48] is going to be able to

[01:07:50] do that.

[01:07:52] And Ducksou who observes this is

[01:07:54] hell there are no rules in hell

[01:07:56] and he's sort of a

[01:07:58] representative of hell

[01:08:00] and Minio takes him out

[01:08:02] and I think there's some

[01:08:04] redemption for her there as you

[01:08:06] said Daphne but she was

[01:08:08] pretty annoying too

[01:08:10] like you're not devastated

[01:08:12] even to see her go

[01:08:14] No, she gave me a little

[01:08:16] bit of comic relief at times

[01:08:17] the way she would pick it

[01:08:19] him. I enjoyed that a lot

[01:08:21] Yeah

[01:08:23] I wouldn't want to see her die

[01:08:25] I just want to see her go away

[01:08:27] and never come back

[01:08:31] but so in red light green light

[01:08:33] that's just a few short hours ago

[01:08:35] anyone's death was like a

[01:08:37] shock

[01:08:39] yeah now you're like oh right

[01:08:41] I wanted to see that I get killed

[01:08:43] yeah yeah I wonder if

[01:08:45] maybe not but if it would be different

[01:08:47] if this was another shooting game

[01:08:49] because that just seems so

[01:08:51] traumatic to see someone get shot

[01:08:53] especially when they're like point

[01:08:55] blank like that versus

[01:08:57] falling through glass

[01:08:59] it's bad too

[01:09:01] but I don't know maybe

[01:09:03] it's it hits differently

[01:09:05] so to speak

[01:09:09] so yeah

[01:09:11] especially Ducksou

[01:09:13] let's get ending for him

[01:09:15] yeah

[01:09:17] I'm waiting for that you know

[01:09:19] since what the first or second episode

[01:09:21] yeah

[01:09:23] we got two more so he made it pretty far

[01:09:25] yeah

[01:09:27] they kept him in there to annoy us all this time

[01:09:29] okay let's get into note

[01:09:31] staff me

[01:09:33] um I wanted to say that

[01:09:35] there were elements of this

[01:09:37] when they brought in the VIPs

[01:09:39] that reminded me a bit of the

[01:09:41] lot of people have seen it but

[01:09:43] I saw it

[01:09:45] yeah it was

[01:09:47] I thought it was a great movie

[01:09:49] um but that's my thing

[01:09:51] like those types of movies are my thing

[01:09:53] but again it was

[01:09:55] like there was a voyeuristic

[01:09:57] element to that movie

[01:09:59] that we got in this episode with the VIPs

[01:10:01] and it just kind of

[01:10:03] despite this being a competition show

[01:10:05] it just

[01:10:07] the power of people

[01:10:09] who are orchestrating

[01:10:11] all of this

[01:10:13] I guess that's what it reminded me of

[01:10:15] is that

[01:10:17] um

[01:10:19] you know people

[01:10:21] humans are their own worst enemy

[01:10:23] I mean the way that

[01:10:25] we are to each other

[01:10:27] and so seeing

[01:10:29] that element

[01:10:31] I remember being a little surprised when it

[01:10:33] when it came in

[01:10:35] um again

[01:10:37] I just

[01:10:39] that it just reminded me of that

[01:10:41] but yeah that's it

[01:10:43] so the VIP guys

[01:10:45] I did think it was

[01:10:47] funny kind of that they were

[01:10:49] speaking about different events

[01:10:51] similar to how we would

[01:10:53] like um

[01:10:55] the poeticness of

[01:10:57] Minyau and Duxu

[01:10:59] dying together or talking through

[01:11:01] which number you should pick and why

[01:11:03] or uh

[01:11:05] there was another

[01:11:07] segment like that too

[01:11:09] if you get which one it was

[01:11:11] uh

[01:11:13] no I can't remember but um

[01:11:15] it just

[01:11:17] my first thought was

[01:11:19] does that say something bad about us

[01:11:21] because we're voyeuristic

[01:11:23] maybe a little like David

[01:11:25] you were suggesting you know where we've

[01:11:27] gotten to sensitize and we'd be happy to see

[01:11:29] someone die but I really think more of the point

[01:11:31] is just like we watched TV but the

[01:11:33] differences they're watching real

[01:11:35] people or actually their

[01:11:37] lies are a stake in we're not

[01:11:39] we're watching actors so we're fine

[01:11:41] and they're bad. Jason did you

[01:11:43] notice? Did either of you

[01:11:45] notice that when they came in the room

[01:11:47] one of them said

[01:11:49] the contest in Korea is the best

[01:11:51] yeah I did hear that

[01:11:53] so we learned there that

[01:11:55] this is um

[01:11:57] international and more widespread

[01:11:59] and more widespread

[01:12:01] that's why we're

[01:12:03] not saying that the game is

[01:12:05] not being organized

[01:12:07] from the records. We learned a few

[01:12:09] things

[01:12:11] we learned they don't know the games ahead of time

[01:12:13] that the games change each time

[01:12:15] at least somewhat and maybe totally

[01:12:17] because one said the games in this

[01:12:19] edition have been amazing

[01:12:21] and also they don't know what the

[01:12:23] games are going to be so that suggests

[01:12:25] that they change if they you know

[01:12:27] they are Korean

[01:12:29] but they're on the sirens so

[01:12:31] what do you think that means that there's an arena

[01:12:33] in Korea proper or

[01:12:35] no I think no they're talking about

[01:12:37] this one yeah yeah

[01:12:39] but they're saying but

[01:12:41] that suggests there's other ones

[01:12:43] and um also we learned that they can bet

[01:12:45] on each individual game

[01:12:47] but they can bet on an overall winner

[01:12:49] i guess i could probably just bet on anything

[01:12:51] they want. Yeah one thing that did not

[01:12:53] ring true for me with them was

[01:12:55] um

[01:12:57] ignorance of the nuances of the game

[01:12:59] and i don't think that's true

[01:13:01] of people who care enough about something

[01:13:03] that they're following all

[01:13:05] traipsing all over the world to see it

[01:13:07] betting millions on whatever i think

[01:13:09] they would be really into the details

[01:13:11] yeah i think so too

[01:13:13] and are they actually financing it

[01:13:15] like is definitely right this is their money

[01:13:17] in the pot

[01:13:19] that i think is unclear

[01:13:21] but if they're not then who is

[01:13:23] yeah and i would suggest that if they are the

[01:13:27] will hold spectators and betters

[01:13:29] that they are not the financiers

[01:13:31] because you're usually

[01:13:33] not an owner and a better

[01:13:35] at the same time like that doesn't work

[01:13:37] so who is that that just adds another question

[01:13:39] like who's orchestrating all this

[01:13:41] i mean they could be though

[01:13:45] they could be financing it just to get

[01:13:47] their rocks off watching it

[01:13:49] and then just making bets for fun too

[01:13:51] maybe i don't know

[01:13:53] i hope we find that out

[01:13:55] that's possible

[01:13:57] um last thing i noticed

[01:13:59] in uh... squid games the challenge

[01:14:01] in the dorm area

[01:14:03] you know the reality show that there was

[01:14:05] stickman art on the sides of the walls

[01:14:07] depicting all the challenges in squid games

[01:14:09] and here i know

[01:14:11] i think it's the same

[01:14:13] i don't know if it's all of it but i did

[01:14:15] definitely notice the glass bridge

[01:14:17] and

[01:14:19] it was up there the whole time you know

[01:14:23] yes so

[01:14:25] i wondered i actually had to wonder if

[01:14:27] the frontman

[01:14:29] at some point was questioning why do i have so

[01:14:31] many backwards entrances into everything

[01:14:33] because it made it very easy for

[01:14:35] juneho to get around

[01:14:37] and do all the things he was doing

[01:14:39] and the fact that they're all wearing

[01:14:41] masks is kind of a weak spot

[01:14:43] yeah maybe not

[01:14:45] maybe you don't want

[01:14:47] a back door

[01:14:49] hidden in your room

[01:14:51] or yeah it just seemed like

[01:14:53] it's too easy to go in there

[01:14:55] and move around

[01:14:57] yeah

[01:14:59] but it's fun to watch

[01:15:01] yes

[01:15:03] i have one other note

[01:15:05] so minyou at the beginning

[01:15:07] when she's talking about being the one

[01:15:09] who wasn't picked says

[01:15:11] they called me the weakest link

[01:15:13] which is what

[01:15:15] you call a child who is the last one

[01:15:17] picked or who didn't get picked for the game

[01:15:19] so that made me think about the weakest link

[01:15:23] the game show

[01:15:25] and whether that was an intentional reference

[01:15:27] on the part of the

[01:15:29] filmmakers

[01:15:31] so the weakest link is a british

[01:15:35] trivia show that started in 2000

[01:15:37] then there were American

[01:15:39] French dutch

[01:15:41] and international versions

[01:15:43] it's been on and off in various countries

[01:15:45] but it has been on since

[01:15:47] 2000 for so for a long time

[01:15:49] and

[01:15:51] eight or nine players

[01:15:53] and then essentially the weakest link

[01:15:55] the one determined to be the

[01:15:57] weakest link gets eliminated

[01:15:59] the top prize money

[01:16:01] if they get all the way

[01:16:03] around six of the game is

[01:16:05] 500 grand so

[01:16:07] not quite the 35 million of

[01:16:09] squid game but a pretty good prize

[01:16:11] so it actually has a lot of

[01:16:13] similarity to the games

[01:16:15] they're describing in the show

[01:16:17] so I kind of felt like that was an intentional easter egg

[01:16:19] they threw in there

[01:16:21] cool yeah i watch that show

[01:16:23] but it's been a long time

[01:16:25] yeah it had a famous british

[01:16:27] post

[01:16:29] and robinson

[01:16:31] and she was on it for a long time

[01:16:33] she was very

[01:16:35] direct when they were the weakest

[01:16:37] you are the weakest like goodbye

[01:16:39] like it was so

[01:16:41] the catchphrase was pretty great

[01:16:43] would she say their names first

[01:16:45] I don't remember

[01:16:47] I just remember that she had that

[01:16:49] that she

[01:16:51] was just so dismissive in the way she said it

[01:16:53] it wasn't just what she said

[01:16:55] it was the delivery

[01:16:57] yeah

[01:16:59] player 45 eliminated

[01:17:09] all right

[01:17:11] we're back it's time for a bit of

[01:17:19] listener feedback

[01:17:21] okay say it low says

[01:17:23] freaking haunting episode

[01:17:25] following a tragic one

[01:17:27] I cried a bunch during the end of episode six

[01:17:29] and this was exceedingly difficult to watch

[01:17:31] as well

[01:17:33] one of the VIPs mentioned that the

[01:17:35] career in recruiting was very successful

[01:17:37] does this mean that they do squid games in other countries

[01:17:39] also the sheer luck of the bridge decisions had been gasping

[01:17:43] even though I knew how it played out

[01:17:45] this show is so good

[01:17:47] I'm glad you said that part at the end

[01:17:49] because i was feeling bad

[01:17:51] for being a bad influence

[01:17:53] and having you watch this show

[01:17:55] with that over there

[01:17:57] no it is so good

[01:17:59] Becky Fener Anderson says

[01:18:01] the bridge game was so good

[01:18:03] very intense

[01:18:05] the VIP scenes felt overacted borderline cheesy

[01:18:07] maybe that was the point

[01:18:09] I understand the need for them to be there

[01:18:11] because I think it was important to show

[01:18:13] how cruel these games really are

[01:18:15] it was crazy to watch them bet on players

[01:18:17] and laugh so kalesley at their demise

[01:18:19] an excellent showing of how little human life means to some people

[01:18:23] only disappointment to them

[01:18:25] is if they don't make money off those lives

[01:18:27] love the game and player parts

[01:18:29] happy new year to you all

[01:18:31] Becky just summed up everything we said

[01:18:33] yeah she did

[01:18:35] thank you Becky

[01:18:37] we should have just read that

[01:18:39] we could have saved some time

[01:18:43] music

[01:18:51] all right except for our spoiler section at the end

[01:18:53] that was our show so thanks so much for listening

[01:18:55] everybody

[01:18:57] next up will be squid game season one

[01:18:59] episode eight frontman

[01:19:01] you want to write in or send us a voice message about it

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[01:19:17] is called Run for Your Lives

[01:19:19] have you heard that would definitely?

[01:19:21] I have

[01:19:23] I have to see co-host with Pike for Run for Your Lives

[01:19:25] yeah

[01:19:27] we released an episode last week

[01:19:29] where we went back and looked at the first four

[01:19:31] seasons of our podcast

[01:19:35] and kind of ranked what our favorite

[01:19:39] characters were

[01:19:41] not just characters but characters

[01:19:43] side characters

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[01:19:47] episodes movies

[01:19:49] we ranked all of them because we kind of in season five and six

[01:19:51] changed it up how we look back at each season

[01:19:53] so we went back and kind of looked at things

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[01:20:01] and then this week we're going to release an episode on

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[01:20:09] I have never seen that

[01:20:11] so i'm going to totally watch it

[01:20:13] and listen to you guys did you already record it

[01:20:15] we have recorded it but feedback is still open

[01:20:19] so people can send in feedback

[01:20:21] and we'll read it on that episode

[01:20:25] very cool

[01:20:27] alright that is our show

[01:20:29] thanks for listening

[01:20:31] David Coppett you are the weakest link

[01:20:33] no i'm just kidding i didn't have a good one

[01:20:35] oh that's good

[01:20:37] bye

[01:20:45] all right

[01:20:47] let's do some spoiler talk

[01:20:49] there's some good stuff here

[01:20:51] so as always if you don't want to be spoiled

[01:20:53] if you haven't seen it then you should definitely stop listening now because we're really good to spoil some twists

[01:20:57] so here we go

[01:20:59] so yeah we see

[01:21:01] the frontman talking to

[01:21:03] i'm sure

[01:21:04] oh you'll know i'm right on the phone

[01:21:05] yes saying i'm happy to hear you enjoyed the game

[01:21:09] but we didn't know at the time he met because you just played in it

[01:21:11] right

[01:21:13] yeah i have a feeling that he wasn't supposed to be part of that game

[01:21:17] that he was supposed to be the odd man out

[01:21:21] is what they

[01:21:23] and maybe i'm wrong

[01:21:25] but i think he was supposed to be the odd man out

[01:21:29] of the marble game

[01:21:31] because they had

[01:21:33] they had an uneven number of players i think it was play in that way from the beginning

[01:21:37] and that's why he was over in the corner

[01:21:39] yes and then the plan would be for him to disappear

[01:21:43] and for them to think he died

[01:21:45] i'm gonna disagree with you on that

[01:21:47] because i don't think they planned from the beginning and uneven number of players

[01:21:51] i think they planned an even number of players and the doctor screwed it up

[01:21:55] well that's true

[01:21:57] with his scheme and also

[01:21:59] that seemed to be the game he wanted to play the most

[01:22:03] like it was modeled on his neighborhood and his house and he had all these feelings about it

[01:22:07] that's true

[01:22:09] he wanted to play the games

[01:22:11] yeah that's why he's there

[01:22:13] but so the frontman tells the VIPs

[01:22:15] there's a personal matter

[01:22:17] with his host preventing him from attending

[01:22:19] and i'm pretty sure the reason why that was written into the story

[01:22:23] is because if the host is there

[01:22:25] even with his mask on talking to them

[01:22:27] we're gonna recognize him as O'Eel Nam

[01:22:29] right?

[01:22:31] but i don't understand the in-story reason

[01:22:33] and maybe that's still yet to come

[01:22:35] his health maybe

[01:22:37] because his health seemed to deteriorate throughout

[01:22:39] and then we see him later on

[01:22:41] in another episode when he's

[01:22:43] really bad

[01:22:45] yeah okay yeah

[01:22:47] yeah so i think maybe it was his health

[01:22:49] i mean and he's been running this for such a long time that

[01:22:55] i mean we know this isn't the first year that they've done it

[01:22:59] so i think he took his mask off in the frontman's presence

[01:23:03] right which we know the frontman knows what he looks like at least

[01:23:07] because he knew him from the riot video and everything

[01:23:09] yeah um it was really interesting to have the frontman

[01:23:13] learn that his brother is the intruder causing trouble

[01:23:17] but we don't get to feel the significance of that

[01:23:19] because we don't yet know

[01:23:21] as viewers that the frontman is his brother

[01:23:23] and so um looking back on it now

[01:23:27] i'm realizing that and i was trying to think

[01:23:29] so did the frontman once he discovered that

[01:23:33] behave any differently

[01:23:35] and like when he learned this VIP was unconscious

[01:23:37] and asked about the intruder was he thinking i hope my brother's okay

[01:23:41] but i i doesn't seem like it because he's still like full on

[01:23:45] doing conducting a search for his brother with the boats

[01:23:49] and everything yeah it kind of seems like he feels he has to get control

[01:23:53] of this thing um no matter what

[01:23:57] and that's what he's there to do with high stakes

[01:24:01] behind it but i don't think we fully understand their relationship

[01:24:05] even by the end of this season

[01:24:07] hmm yeah i do wonder if maybe he felt he had to take greater control

[01:24:13] of it because he figures out that it is his brother

[01:24:17] and it's not just a general intruder

[01:24:19] maybe he knows that his brother is

[01:24:21] the type of person that's not going to stop

[01:24:25] that's gonna you know really dig into things

[01:24:27] and that he's got to find him maybe

[01:24:29] um

[01:24:31] if it's possible i think for him to find him before

[01:24:35] anyone else i think he would like that

[01:24:37] but also he's never really separate from the others

[01:24:41] like he's always got to deal with people

[01:24:43] when they're doing the searching so i yeah

[01:24:45] so i just don't know

[01:24:47] yeah it's a good point that he knows him

[01:24:49] um and what their feelings are back and forth

[01:24:53] isn't completely clear

[01:24:55] i did wonder throughout the entirety of the series

[01:24:59] like what Junho's endgame was

[01:25:01] he's just in a very disadvantaged

[01:25:03] tages position being on this island

[01:25:07] and he never really seemed to have a great plan for how

[01:25:11] he was gonna get off it

[01:25:13] he's been kind of sliding by

[01:25:15] flying by the sea

[01:25:17] if his pants the entire time

[01:25:19] because you get the sense

[01:25:21] he's looking for his brother

[01:25:23] but it's become a much bigger

[01:25:25] thing than just finding his brother

[01:25:27] yeah and i guess he

[01:25:29] like you made a good point

[01:25:31] that he left that VIP guy alive

[01:25:33] maybe to get some leverage on him

[01:25:35] or something

[01:25:37] to help bring something down

[01:25:39] if that's his way in then maybe he wouldn't want to kill him

[01:25:43] yeah

[01:25:45] and he's still at this point

[01:25:47] doesn't know that it's his brother

[01:25:49] until the end of the series

[01:25:51] like the end of this season

[01:25:53] and he sees his brother

[01:25:55] he knew his brother had won a season

[01:25:57] that's all he knew

[01:25:59] he didn't know that he was part of this entity

[01:26:01] that is

[01:26:03] doing this and engineering everything

[01:26:05] i like your calling him seasons

[01:26:07] now it's like

[01:26:09] it's a real reality show

[01:26:11] well

[01:26:13] it kind of is

[01:26:15] i mean it kind of is

[01:26:17] i guess maybe watching the challenge

[01:26:19] makes me think that

[01:26:21] it is similar

[01:26:23] yeah

[01:26:25] anything else about this episode

[01:26:27] do you want to talk about

[01:26:29] in reference to future events

[01:26:31] i don't think that they

[01:26:33] i think they

[01:26:35] definitely they showed us

[01:26:37] saviac's reaction

[01:26:39] because

[01:26:41] it's kind of a foreshadowing

[01:26:43] she's her

[01:26:45] i don't remember so

[01:26:47] she's her

[01:26:49] yeah

[01:26:51] i think it also

[01:26:53] what sangwoo did

[01:26:55] to

[01:26:57] number 13

[01:26:59] just shows you how far he's

[01:27:01] willing to go

[01:27:03] or at least

[01:27:05] part of how far he's

[01:27:07] willing to go and we see more of it

[01:27:09] in the next episode

[01:27:11] i totally don't remember

[01:27:13] but looking forward to it

[01:27:15] maybe my tune will change

[01:27:17] on him after watching that

[01:27:19] there's only one winner at the

[01:27:21] end and i've been trying to

[01:27:23] suggest that there's

[01:27:25] possibility that there could

[01:27:27] be more

[01:27:29] i realized today

[01:27:31] oh yeah you know when June how

[01:27:33] goes in it looks at the records

[01:27:35] for past games

[01:27:37] i think every game only has one winner

[01:27:39] or there's one winner

[01:27:41] listed per game so

[01:27:43] that's some pretty hard evidence

[01:27:45] that there's only one winner per game

[01:27:47] in hunger games

[01:27:49] where there is potential