5: "The Man with the Umbrella" (Squid Game S1E3)

[00:00:00] Whoa! Hey everybody, welcome to the Podcast. I'm Jason and I'm David. And I'm Daphne. And this episode recovering squid game season one episode 3 the man with the Umbrella also known as Gijun. sort of welcome because, definitely, and Jonathan just binged, you know, we did two

[00:01:14] marathon episodes for Squid Game the Challenge, the Reality Show based on Squid Game and we watched all nine episodes and did two podcasts on it and we'll be doing one more after the final episode which comes out this Wednesday, December 6th

[00:01:28] where we can't wait to find out who won but anyway welcome to the normal Squid Game Podcast. Thank you, I'm excited to get to talk about the actual show. Like you said we've been talking about the Reality series and so now kind of feel like I am

[00:01:44] in the middle of the show and the Reality Show and I feel like it's just going to get mixed up but we'll see talking about Ashley and Tray. People you get mad at yes.

[00:01:59] That's why I stopped watching the Reality Show until we finished our rewatch of Squid Game. It was getting a little mixed up between the two worlds. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm actually going to do a point on the Reality Show because after having binged nine

[00:02:16] hours of it or whatever it was and then watching this week's episode I couldn't help but have stuff from the Reality Show pop-up. It did though. I mean it was so easy to do.

[00:02:28] To have that pop-up in your head. But before we get into this week's episode I do want to mention I haven't yet on this podcast but I have a Patreon and if you sign up for that at any level as

[00:02:39] lowest $2 a month you get ad free episodes of this podcast which I'm sure you'd appreciate and it would help me help support the podcasting and that's patreon.com slash Jason Kibassi so thanks to

[00:02:52] anyone who does that. And with that on to Squid Game season one episode three the man with the umbrella in general. Daffy what did you think about this one on rewatch? I really like this episode.

[00:03:05] I feel like as with the F-2 it's really starting to get into a groove and build into something bigger and you also start to notice relationships that have built between some of the characters

[00:03:22] in addition to the games they're playing. And I feel like I just want to see where it's going to go. Like I want to show like this and you don't know what's going to happen next.

[00:03:35] You can just anticipate heartbreak I guess thinking about shows like this that are dystopian you just start to wonder when is the sugar going to drop when is the heartbreak going to come something's going to happen because these people are starting to form these relationships

[00:03:58] in this place where they are caught off from everyone and everything that they know even as bad as it is out there which they you know went back to see how bad it is and now they're back again.

[00:04:11] They're still cut off from everything and all the people that they love. And so all they have in this little environment is each other and some people are good and some people are bad.

[00:04:22] David what about you? I thought another great episode we're back this time with another game after the very compelling but somewhat transitional episode 2. Plus we have the added drama now of a cop infiltrating the island so sort of a side story line now for the first time.

[00:04:46] Another very dramatic climax to the game that's played and to the episode itself. And really my conclusion was I forgot how much I love this show. I remember it was great and I loved it but I didn't really remember a lot of detail about

[00:05:06] everything that happened until starting to rewatch and it's just so good. It's very compelling and detailed and crafted so I really enjoyed it. Yeah I was the same like I remember after the show

[00:05:20] really liking it but I didn't remember what that felt like and I'd forgotten most of the details so I wanted to do the podcast it was more like well I know I liked that show and I remember

[00:05:31] some details about it but when you're actually watching it it's like oh yeah this is so good. You forget the little TDD tales that are in there and I think that's one because they're so

[00:05:44] focused on all the parts of what makes this show great instead of just focusing on well let's have a great cast or let's have a great production quality. Let's have a great script they're focused on everything.

[00:05:59] The guy who playing Donghyeok is the director and the writer and he works pretty much alone writing the whole thing and it sounds like it's an arduous process but there's a lot of shows I really love

[00:06:15] that are a very ought to or driven and I think this is one of them and if you have a good talented person with a solid singular vision then yeah man just give them all the resources they

[00:06:30] need to execute and you get something good like this. That said this episode I really loved it but also I felt it was a bit goofy at times and I wonder if that's kind of a flaw of this show

[00:06:40] and we'll get to it when we talk about it in detail because I want to get your guys perspective but all wait until that's one of my points let's move on to fucked up my little week.

[00:06:48] Daphne oh man well I don't feel like it was quite as fucked up as last week with the coffins but I think the brutality of watching people get gunned down because they couldn't cut out a cookie

[00:07:09] and then also watching the head guy just dispatch his his guard because while you took your mask off they know who you are you're you're gone you can't be here anymore by it's over

[00:07:23] shows that no one is indispensable and it's very quick decisions are just it he makes decisions there's no question and that kind of creep me out I mean the gunning down of people is always

[00:07:40] going to be a lot to handle but I just think him being so easily able to dispatch his guard when nothing I mean he had to take his mask off because the guy had a gun to his head I guess maybe

[00:07:59] which bullet is going to kill you the guy that's holding you hostage or your commander I mean yeah I found that really jarring David I thought it was the for me it was the first loser in

[00:08:15] the game sliding down the slide with the trail of blood beautiful and beautifully framed shot looking back up at that it was almost like a piece of art but it was pretty messed up and all

[00:08:30] of a sudden like you know that's cute little game I got really real at that yeah moment yeah just the juxtaposition of the child like in the gruesome like that is very fucked up

[00:08:45] well for me I mean being shot in the head because you can't chip a shape out of a cookie is pretty messed up but I actually thought and maybe I meant again curious to know what you guys think about

[00:08:56] this but I thought it was pretty fucked up for Junho a police officer to throw it unconscious man into the ocean especially when he has no idea what's going on with all this stuff yet it could be

[00:09:09] as far as he knows a totally voluntary and harmless thing and he just murdered a guy yeah I agree with you on that and that didn't even register for me the first time I watched

[00:09:22] the episode and then when I rewatched I was like wow he just killed a guy and he had to get him out of the way for the plot to move forward but yeah and before that I just didn't think that that was the type of person he was

[00:09:38] and then he is you know yeah it was ruthless for sure yeah all right let's get into a point Stephanie what's your first one okay so I talked about this a little bit when I was talking about

[00:09:52] relationships building we've seen some of the characters connect with each other we've seen Jehan and Ilnam are having this father son bond we also see it with Ali and Sanglu they're building a bond but I guess what we really gotten this episode and what's

[00:10:18] stood out to me about these relationships is this is the first time I mean Sanglu has done some wonderful things for Ali he paid for his taxi he just seems to be this great friend in

[00:10:31] but we've learned in this episode and we see when they go to cut out the cookies he's figured out what's going on and he doesn't share it with anyone else in his little group and I thought that is it's not quite what we've seen from him before

[00:10:48] and I'm wondering if there might be something more coming he just seems like you know he was an imbezler we know that about him but this is the first time I mean Jehan is his friend and why would you not tell your friend hey I figured this out

[00:11:12] we all need to go get a triangle you know what I didn't I think you might be right but I didn't read it that way I thought because he flashed back on his childhood experiences with

[00:11:25] these dowgong cookies or whatever they are and by the way like tell that was all black and white but the cookies were in color I just thought that was cool I don't know why but anyway

[00:11:35] I thought maybe he he just hadn't put all the pieces together you know he thought well this is maybe they're making these but I don't think at least I didn't think he would then make the leap

[00:11:47] to oh we're gonna have to cut these shapes out and that's why he didn't say anything because I think he did say I don't know yet but maybe what you're saying is right that he was high because he does want

[00:11:57] to get as much information as he can in order to further his own the you know he does progression in the game and so even if he didn't figure it out he could have still said what he did know

[00:12:08] yeah he could have said this is what I'm thinking that it is so maybe we should all get a triangle because well I don't know why you would say let's get a triangle if

[00:12:17] he didn't realize they were gonna have to cut the shapes out but maybe he could have made that Lee but even even if he didn't say that he could have still at least said I don't know why but

[00:12:26] I think they're making these doggana things and then maybe somebody else could have filled in you know yeah I think definitely is right it was in my opinion absolutely and definitely

[00:12:38] intentional when he did with hold yeah they they set it up where he says to say be oh I can if you tell me what you saw I can figure out what it was and then we see him with the flash back

[00:12:54] and I think it's quite clear that he figured out what it was and Savio realizes he did because she follows him did he get the triangle yes he did get the triangle that is evidence for what you guys are

[00:13:06] saying yeah she followed him to get the triangle and he he was laying in bed and awake when um Savio and Minio went back to bed after the little bathroom it thing where Savio went and saw that they were like melting sugar or a boiling sugar

[00:13:30] so he overheard them talking they make a point of showing that to us so I think he already started putting pieces together and he talked with her and by the time they went and had to make the choice I think he had figured it out

[00:13:46] I think you're right yeah now when he knew it when he saws the whole point of his story like yeah so that makes it much more interesting to me because I thought he was just being friendly and helpful this whole time but no

[00:13:55] no and the last clue is that right before they go into the room he says hey good and he's gonna tell him he feels guilty and then he changes his mind yeah it doesn't don't

[00:14:08] which is really cold he could have said get the circle at least yeah yeah I'm worried I mean if you think about it there they're supposedly good friends but I feel like there's always been a

[00:14:23] competition between them maybe or because you know that feeling yeah we can't have told them all get in the triangle line and that that wouldn't have impacted his passage through this so that makes it even more nefarious for him to suggest that they all go to other shapes

[00:14:40] that are harder because then he's like I want to get rid of as many people as I can as quick as I can no matter whether if they're my quote unquote friends or not well and if they take themselves out then he's not really responsible for like

[00:14:57] basically the violence suggested that they'll go different lines exactly he specifically told G.H. to take the umbrella why would you do that yeah and it's horrible or Elmnam has got the star and he I'm just like oh these two should not be

[00:15:23] doing the hardest shapes and yeah they are oh man but they all made it through them hmm luckily yes through no help from Sangwo well I'll continue on with Sangwo's character journey which my gritty deffny is the most

[00:15:40] interesting thing in this episode so as you said this is someone G.H. who really looks up to it Myers and remember his initial surprise at seeing him here in this sort of nowhere land

[00:15:54] that G.H. has reached he's very surprised to see this friend who he's built up as the neighborhood legend and he'll tell anyone who will listen he went to solenoversity made it a

[00:16:05] business he's he's a huge man he's yeah he's this that and the other so we already know that Sangwo is actually a criminal who stole from people lost everything gammled everything

[00:16:20] his mom owns lost that it sounds like he's a bit of like a made off type you know he might have lost other people's money yeah and yeah he was on the point of suicide I mean he was basically

[00:16:32] was in the process of committing suicide but what's interesting about him is he still has this era of sophistication he's still probably the smartest guy there almost certainly the most educated guy there and maybe the one he reached the highest level in business so he still has this

[00:16:51] uh or about him but I think for the first time in this episode we're starting to realize he didn't just make some mistakes like he there is something fundamentally wrong with him there's something wrong in his character mm-hmm and but he's very canny and very intelligent so

[00:17:13] he figures out the game before anyone else based on what he he hears from someone else and also his own knowledge but I think he has also figured out more quickly than almost anyone else

[00:17:28] that everyone else is gonna have to die for him to get out of there and to get out of there with the money so I think much sooner than anyone else he is playing against everyone else

[00:17:40] and and that's where to your point Jason he's basically sending as many people as he can to their deaths right away I do think there is a former a further point between him and Gihun

[00:17:56] I think Gihun is a uncomfortable reminder to him of what he is supposed to be should have been could have been and isn't and I think it's not just childhood rivalry it's that it's painful for him

[00:18:16] for this childhood friend to be going around telling everybody how great he is when he's actually the opposite of that and I think he has an axe to grind there I think he actually wants him out of

[00:18:28] the way specifically well it's good thing for his mother that she's not in the game then oh my goodness really one her up I think he's got an axe to grind there I think his move with

[00:18:42] Gihun here is not just not just strategic it's personal yeah that's what I was feeling too because Gihun Gihun is so I found him very charming in this even though he I mean he's not very

[00:18:58] focused at all but he's and he doesn't see very bright but he's very charming and I think it helps that the actor just exudes this kind of a light about him or something and but he's kind of

[00:19:11] dialless it seems like and saying who is almost the opposite he's so there's so much going on underneath you know and he keeps everything close to his vest and and he's always manipulating yeah you know everything he does with regard to others is manipulating but I think there's

[00:19:32] you know personal annoyance there with Gihun and and I wonder also and this is more on the strategic side I mean he knows him very well and and he may know that although Gihun is kind of a goofball

[00:19:48] he's also sort of street clever and he may see him as a threat down the road so he may see this as a good chance to get him out of the game yeah it's Gihun has a determination

[00:20:01] and the fact that he made it through the game says something I think in some ways he wants to take him out now so that he doesn't have to do it in a more personal way later hmm and I up well I was going

[00:20:15] to say he doesn't even realize but he'll be dead as soon as that happens it's so funny we talk about Gihun being you know kind of a goofball and you know kind of fun and just a few episodes ago

[00:20:32] he was you know stealing from his mother and he wasn't a good person he didn't seem like as good a person but I think it's all this kindness we see from him especially when it comes to

[00:20:46] him that you can't help but get sucked into him being a decent person even if he is a bit of a street thug he is you know he is a kind person he can be a charming he can be sweet he can

[00:21:03] try to look out for other people and I wouldn't call him a street thug I mean he's more of a street victim than a street thug street victim okay I'll buy in that he's got low integrity honestly

[00:21:18] in the way that his own vices get the better of him and he's flaky in a way and yeah I think he's also very in the moment like when he's with his daughter he's focused on her but he's not

[00:21:34] focused on her sometimes when he's away from her saying with his mother so um yeah I don't know he's he's still even in this episode even though I like I said I've always found him charming and

[00:21:47] but he's he is more likeable now than he was in the first episode but I think that's more about the circumstances than anything else they're kind of a mess I mean Gihun is messed up on the

[00:21:57] stuff yeah like I took a little bit of money and he's kind of a train rack and yes and he's not really the most reliable guy but at his essence he seems like a good person

[00:22:10] and Sunggu is the exact opposite he's like educated and he has this aura of sophistication but his core is not good I get the impression he's thinking all the time like he's planning and plotting

[00:22:25] and trying to figure out what to do and by being part of this group of people this small group of people that's coming together think he views himself as being you know above them like smarter

[00:22:39] and better and that worries me so much I think sometimes you can be a bad person and not very smart and it might not be as big a deal but if you're a bad person in your super smart it can

[00:22:54] be 10 times worse yeah and that's his problem like he's he fucked up on a bigger scale as far as me know that when else in the squid game competition and that is in part because of his capability

[00:23:08] so when you pair that capability with they're being something wrong with him as David said then yeah like a character yeah yeah so yeah all right I'm gonna move on to Junho and kind of this behind the curtain look at the workers we got because he infiltrated

[00:23:26] this good game and impersonates one of the circle faced workers so we get a better look at their situation and their day-to-day which I found really fascinating before he it before he did

[00:23:38] he's following this line of the vans and I noticed they're all Hyundai's and I'm like is that good product placement for Hyundai or not I don't know no because I don't want to anything to do with anything that's what they're doing

[00:23:54] so I'm enjoying the rest of the family and the back of the oh anyway oh miss so um they he sends this note to the chief I can't go to the station today I'll talk to you later

[00:24:05] I'm like what do you do I guess he's not supposed to be following these guys because they don't believe in it down at the station so he doesn't want to let on is that why

[00:24:14] he's because it's dumb right especially if you're gonna go into the belly of the beast you want people to know where you are I think he's going rogue yeah he has to be yeah so then he

[00:24:26] crawls into this vans sneak on the ferry boat and poses as this as a player first pretends to be knocked out as they inspect and then overpowers the inspector chokes him out that was all

[00:24:38] really thrilling through him in the water I was like oh man we saw I think with a body wash up on shore and maybe he's still alive but if he is that's totally by chance and I

[00:24:50] don't think it makes what do you know did any better because when he threw him over it might as well have been murder it's a murder or sacked true but sometimes I think good people have to do bad things keep that in mind definitely as we're dealing with

[00:25:07] you know I think I thought was it simply a temper me yeah he doesn't kill that guy and take his place they're gonna kill him yeah but he doesn't know yet he doesn't know he hasn't seen anything

[00:25:23] remember he has heard ghee who it's whole story about what's oh yes that's true okay okay that makes it the difference I forgot about that yeah I mean he doesn't know if that's true or not but

[00:25:34] it might be so yes and given everything is looking right now it seems like it is true so that yeah you're right David that changes my mind yeah and he's worried about his brother like he's so

[00:25:45] focused on what that F is going on with my brother where at the hack is he so then he's got this guy's outfit on it was probably I was gonna say maybe it wouldn't have been he kind of got the

[00:26:00] low man on the totem pole we can tell the squares are like the managers the triangles are the enforcers and the circles are just like the general labor but actually it was probably for the

[00:26:12] best because if you'd weren't a triangle it'd be expected to shoot these contestants and if he wore the square you'd be expected to know more about what was going on so anyway yeah then just seeing how they take these unconscious contestants everything is so orderly

[00:26:32] symmetrical information it's kind of militaristic in a lot of ways what was interesting to me is just the staff are just as dehumanized as as the players and in some ways actually even more because at

[00:26:48] least with the players I get to stay in these dorms and chat with each other and they can see each other's faces with the workers we find out there's no human connection allow they can't

[00:26:57] ever see each other's faces they can't even talk to each other except to give or accept orders everything they do seems to have detailed procedures you know again kind of like being in the military from what I can tell not speaking and let's spoken to you feels militaristic

[00:27:14] and then when they're not working they just have to go into their solitary it's like solitary can find it's like being in prison in these tiny rooms and they're purely to carry out these functions

[00:27:24] they might as well be robots and so all of this makes me curious about how all these guys ended up there and I bet their desperate too you know they've got some leverage on them the

[00:27:37] squid game people I don't know they might be victims too they don't even have any chance of winning any money as far as we know so it's interesting to go from thinking of these guys as the creepy

[00:27:48] bad guys to wow they what happened like how did this happen and then at the end when they play the game and the guy grabs one of them and grabs his gun and points it as his head

[00:28:04] and our points that one of the managers had and then the triangle guys they just shot everyone who was left I guess those were the people that we're still there after the timer is that what it was

[00:28:15] yeah they didn't yeah they had a complete task then and then yeah the square face guy took his mask off and that was that was a great moment because even for me I remember when

[00:28:29] I watched it the first time I was like oh I just went from thinking of this guy this figure as like a drone a faceless drone at all a sudden it's this kid same thing same reaction or similar

[00:28:40] reaction to the guy holding the gun hat all of a sudden he's immediately humanized and that's why the guy instead of threatening him just shot himself instead I mean we could talk more about that but

[00:28:52] then the front man marches up in shoots him in the face as you said at the top daffy he just shows that they're also expendable and it also reinforces that anonymity is important I would

[00:29:03] presume just because the people running this don't want to have any chance of getting found out or anything some questions that came up for me is like these triangle guys I'd been thinking

[00:29:16] of them as security but we see in this down gone game that they're the ones who killed the players that don't pass we didn't see that in red light green light because it was just from these

[00:29:23] turrets but now it's the triangle guys just and I you know it's not maybe think wow I told everyone I thought maybe the first episode was the most shocking but this is pretty shocking too

[00:29:36] but anyway these triangle guys like do they feel shocked when they have to shoot people and if not why not you know I would like I don't remember if this is explored much this season I really

[00:29:46] don't but if not I would love for them to go into that more in season two how you get these people working for you and yes sensitize them to or you find ruthless people or what well we don't

[00:29:59] know how long this has been going on either yeah didn't they say how many oh yeah I don't know if we know that at this point yeah but then the last question is the square guy scans Junho

[00:30:11] and calls him number 29 when he forget he doesn't know that he's supposed to be dragging the bodies out the square guys the one that act and they're getting killed which maybe save Junho's life

[00:30:21] but what is he scanning like is it part of his costume or I think their chip because if you remember on the ship in the vans they were scanning all the contestants in the neck

[00:30:34] and he does so how to scan Junho in the neck and nothing happens and they try to scan the other side so I think they shipped him while they were unconscious but this time he did

[00:30:43] scan him yeah he guys said number 29 maybe it has something to do with a mask maybe the contestants are chip but the workers it's in their masks or something yeah because Junho took the square mask yeah because he did successfully scan him that time he scanned it

[00:31:05] people he goes number 29 I want to have a word with you after this and I think if he had a word with him it could it could just make killing him or even even if not that then just giving

[00:31:14] an unwanted attention on Junho which could have led to him probably would have per pretty quickly found out he wasn't really supposed to be yeah right yeah so did anything I just said I

[00:31:24] know I kind of bailed through that but did that spark anything for you guys about the workers and their situation yeah I had the same thought as you and I I sort of assumed from the beginning

[00:31:35] that the with the workers there was some element of coercion and I I think it's probably a carrot and stick with them there's some element of coercion that got them into this situation and they're probably also being well paid I would guess so there's both motivations but

[00:31:52] right yeah they do not seem free in any way shape or form I get the feel like their prisoners too in a different way I mean it could be where their prisoners in that they like kind of

[00:32:05] like they're well everyone after red like green light where they've agreed like all will agreed to this contract because when he said the square the front man said remember once your face is seen you must be eliminated or something like that so that sounded like they all

[00:32:21] knew the rule you know so maybe they're not like kidnapped and brought there but there somehow got there and then they have to agree to these rules so then while they're they're bound by that you

[00:32:32] know what I mean well in Junho on the wall of his little I mean it really looked like a jail cell yeah um there are rules always wear your bounce-out side of the room don't come

[00:32:46] or without permission don't leave your room without permission and it has everything you need and they've got a toilet you've got a sink in a bed and that's your life there's nothing

[00:32:56] personal in there at all like there as much as the participants have had every thing stripped away and they've just got you know the tracksuits and number these guys it's the same thing

[00:33:11] they've got nothing well I think the secrecy is very important yeah that's what the front man was getting at right so these guys do have some life they came from the mainland so maybe there are people who took a misstep or criminals or somebody who's in trouble like

[00:33:31] the contestants but they are going back to the mainland you get the idea in the plane so and that's where the secrecy is so important you can't let anybody see your face yeah yeah and you

[00:33:43] don't as I said earlier you don't know how long this has been going on how easy it is maybe for some of them to be able to go and pull the trigger like are they de-sensitized to it because they've

[00:33:54] done for a while or do they get different groups of people to come and end do it because whenever the triggers pull while they're sitting there picking away at their little cookies and then

[00:34:06] you hear blam and they all go oh like they're flinching right the the contestants but you don't see the guys in the red jumpsuits all going oh my god they're just very still

[00:34:19] which is necessary for the aesthetics of the show I think but also if you want to bring it in story that maybe they maybe they you know it could also sort of be like the masks help because

[00:34:32] it's just it's like when you're in a car and you can cost somebody out because you're not face to face with them it's a level of remove you know removal from them distance like that yeah

[00:34:44] maybe when they put the mask on it kind of takes them away from being who they really are and they're just playing apart yeah something like that I think it could be interesting because we've been

[00:34:55] like what are they going to do in season two of the show it might be interesting to explore that a little bit more with the workers and how they got there but let's move on to Daphne

[00:35:04] well I it's funny we were talking about cookies and cutting out and you mentioned people shuttering with the guns would go off in watching this this time I just how do you know

[00:35:18] I guess I want to the task at hand okay you've already got a time limit on the wall like 10 minutes you gotta cut this cookie out and you're already under pressure and you're already stressed out and you're trying to do it how do you cut that cookie out

[00:35:41] with all of these guns going off all around you all I could think while I was watching at this time is that I would be there's no way I'd get through it because the gunshots would be like freaking

[00:35:55] me out or making me jump to the point that I would cut the cookie in their own place and some did I think they're at least one woman they showed who just got rattled by it accidentally snapped

[00:36:07] but on the other side you're also motivated to stay alive so if you have the right kind of disposition about you you'll be like I want to freak out like I remember I went caving with my wife

[00:36:21] Jenny and it's when I realized I never want to go caving because I was in this long thin tube of you know area and it was barely enough for me to fit through I couldn't even take a

[00:36:36] full breath in here and it's like 15 feet and I'm halfway through and I'm like I'm getting claustrophobia and I feel like I could totally freak out right now but that's not a good idea

[00:36:48] I just need to keep my composure and get through this and I took you know I just call them calling and got through so I guess if you're the right kind of person you can do that with yourself you know

[00:36:58] I'm not saying I would be good at this game I don't know about it but I don't think I'd be good at the game to begin with but I think it'd be even worse all the noise going around but I think all of this is designed

[00:37:11] to make the most chaotic environment possible I mean I think that's how the the creators of the game put it together is so that the participants not only have to deal with the task at hand but the distraction and the constant disruption of what you're trying to do

[00:37:31] they can have some clowns right in on unicycles oh my god you know what some people are afraid of clowns so that could be that could be that could be quite interesting actually it yeah I did try

[00:37:46] mention already but Jenny bought some of these squid game branded dogona cookies and I got the umbrella right away and I didn't even bother trying I just ate it

[00:37:56] and I don't know why did I don't know why but then I was like no I gotta actually try it and so I tried to triangle and a circle and I got both in like five minutes but there was nobody being

[00:38:06] killed around me and now I wish I'd tried the umbrella but because we've all seen this great game I knew to lick the back of it a lot first and I think that helped but I didn't sit there

[00:38:18] like him and just lick and then try to pry it out I would lick lick lick lick lick and then I would use the pen a little bit and just go back and forth like that to try to keep weakening it you know

[00:38:28] seem to work well he saved a bunch of people who saw him lick that and started looking at themselves and it's like okay that you know this is a great idea let's try this because as the clock is ticking

[00:38:41] down you've gotta try something and because we've seen this and we know that that's what seemed to work before they figured out and they're just like cracking the edges I'm like there's a

[00:38:53] part of me that's like don't do that you're gonna blow lick it lick it well then Minio had the lighter so she was lighting her a cheater the neat yeah she was cheating she was lighting her needle

[00:39:09] picking around and then she left it for a juxtoo who yeah we'll get to that we'll get that so good go on we want to David yeah no that's good it was just a small point I want to talk about

[00:39:26] Gihun and his humanity I think he's one of the few but probably the one for whom you can say the most is not lost his humanity yet uh him and the old man really the two of them but so they end up

[00:39:43] gathering this team what about Ali well I was gonna say and they end up with Ali Abdul on their team who's sort of in the same category like a little naive maybe not the brightest but sort of still a nice guy

[00:39:57] yeah so we're sung who would probably prefer to gather a team with different skills skills ads and complimentary this that the other Gihun has gathered a team of like hey I kind of like these guys

[00:40:11] and the old man says can I join he says of course you could turn sung who is not pleased he is not he's not happy um then he um he kind of makes a joke out of a whole thing yeah it'll be

[00:40:25] like a boot camp uh you're the efficient corporal uh I'm the sergeant on the way out the old man's sergeant majors given his life to the military like their um characters in a movie and he's laughing

[00:40:37] about the whole thing he he's kind of making a summer camp out of it which is really at odds with the way most of uh the people are there and then we have this whole moment where he tries to

[00:40:49] trade his milk in for a chocolate milk as if this were like a cafeteria or you know again summer camp which is just comically out of place and also like if he's sensitive to milk there's milk in chocolate milk

[00:41:04] yeah it doesn't really sound kind of a kid thing I got it is like kind of a cute immature child like request yeah but he ends up giving all we have dual his

[00:41:18] his milk which even if he didn't want to drink it is a nice thing to do and then even at the moment when they're choosing the shapes it's still really about the comradery for him more than anything

[00:41:30] else and the team spirit um so as of this point he's the the almost the one character I would say along with your man who hasn't lost any happy go lucky uh and that has a welcome but during relief

[00:41:45] in this episode yeah and as you say that I don't I am gonna talk a little bit about squid getting the challenge but I'm gonna try not to spoil the details for people who haven't

[00:41:53] seen including you David who haven't seen but I'll just say there's a character in that who very much exemplifies what you just said and it's really fascinating to watch so anything else about

[00:42:07] that about Gihun's humanity yeah I agree with all that yeah and it's a it's simultaneously charming and also I think it seems kind of silly and ridiculous for him to have this sort of oh yeah cool

[00:42:24] attitude when your life is on the line it almost doesn't make sense to be honest like is he just in denial or why is it one of those situations that well I might as well make a joke of it and

[00:42:38] laugh because if I don't I'm gonna be terrified and cry yeah and I I think he also genuinely does feel a part of this group like there in a stressful circumstance and he's kind of got a team

[00:42:50] around him it's his friend from childhood it's a swallowing figure and the other kind of nice guy and they're you know I think he actually feels that yeah and like I was saying about it before

[00:43:05] he's very much in the moments you know yes he's whatever moment he's in he's fully just in that to the detriment sometimes of thinking ahead but you know what I know people like that there's

[00:43:19] so into what they're doing at that given time and then when they're when it's over they are on to do or be part of something else and dive into that they don't um it that's just the way that

[00:43:34] they are I mean they focus on what's in front of them at that time it doesn't always work but you know I don't not to get too deep into it but I feel I try to find a balance of that you got

[00:43:47] to you gotta take time to plan and to do the things that aren't no fun and you know all that but then you also have to take time to just enjoy the moment because life will be over soon and if you

[00:43:59] just work to stress the whole time then you missed it okay so let's see some players navigating the space and each other in particular Savioc who's what number she's six seven six seven yeah

[00:44:14] number two twelve who I don't think we have her name yet. Manio, Manio and Ducsu so so Savioc we saw her wake up in the van and now we see her pretending to be asleep as they cart

[00:44:29] everybody in but she's managed to keep her knife with her do we know why she's awake as just because she's so damn tough or did I miss something when no one says show to us I don't think

[00:44:40] they showed us why she was awake I don't know maybe she found some technique of breathing that would allow her to stay awake but I'm not sure how that works and we did see her that she had her

[00:44:52] nose and mouth covered yeah like with the garment she was wearing whether that would be enough to work okay I don't know maybe I mitigated it somewhat yeah and one of the interesting

[00:45:03] points there is she seems like the only one the two of them heard Minio to have the wherewithal to smuggle something in there like they thought I had this time yeah yeah although I think what she

[00:45:16] brought in is more helpful yes I agree yeah different intentions there yeah so Ducsu wants to team up with Savioc and she's basically says fuck off and she she's just you know clearly the type

[00:45:37] person that will take no shit for anybody and there's not afraid to tell them and she even tells on him all his buddies that he tried to steal from his criminal boss and got caught just totally

[00:45:48] knocks him down and beg so that makes me you know really intrigued to see what's going to happen between the two of them but then this woman two twelve who we saw last time was crying about her

[00:46:00] child and everything wants to join up with Ducsu tells him he's good looking and wings and then he mimes sex boom boom this is how about it and after that I thought maybe she was going to

[00:46:14] Minio I was gonna ask Savioc to team up but no she just walks past her and then as you mentioned in the delgona game she gives the lighter to Ducsu and still wants to ally with him and I was

[00:46:27] questioning that and I think the answer is she she's an interesting character because she's super annoying she gives me bad vibes she's very chaotic she's the type to provoke people like a chaos

[00:46:42] agent in a lot of different ways but very just emotions on the surface kind of manipulative in a forceful aggravating way but I also sense and maybe I'm just I don't know I

[00:46:57] just feel like there's a lot of pain there that she's been through a lot and she wants to feel empowered she seems deeply hurt to me and that she wants to feel like she has some kind of control and

[00:47:08] impact and power and she does that through drama and so I think that's why she she decided to still try to ally with Ducsu because maybe she feels like she could have more control over him

[00:47:22] with their sexuality and everything you know because he seems to have a bigger role as far as well he's an instigator and he's a thug and he's a thug he's a thug David he's a thug that

[00:47:36] one all by definitely this fact I think she is in a different way than song we always trying to manipulate and I think we can retroactively now go back and look at her whole thing about

[00:47:50] I just had a child and no surplees let me out as now that we know her better as completely manipulative designed for that situation and I wonder if even any of that was true

[00:48:04] yeah yeah I doubt it probably not and but I think she's also cany enough to realize I need some strong people around me if I'm gonna have a chance on this thing yeah yeah she is a bit

[00:48:20] like saying woo and and unlike because there's what you see on the surface is not what's going on underneath with both of them but he keeps he's more quiet on the surface and she's but uh I love

[00:48:32] when she was yelling through the little circular like portal window at the triangle guy I got to go to the bathroom and he's just standing there I don't know if you get some reference

[00:48:42] but remember you have a far side cartoon is often there's just someone not reacting to something but um then she's like hey triangle I don't need you get me your superior just get me some square

[00:48:53] head guy and then the square head guy comes with the fru- I mean this whole episode had an element of humor it did yeah and and she squads down to pretend to pee and then that's the trick

[00:49:06] and she got it she got her way she like troll but then um in the bathroom stall you know we found out she smuggled those cigarettes through this little container in her vagina and then

[00:49:18] save you up barges into stall her like you thought she was gonna stab her but I guess she um I don't know why she barged into that particular stall either because uh mean yeah was there

[00:49:30] because the vent was above for the smoke of the cigarette or maybe she just needed a boost from her and the revences and all of them anyway um so then this part where

[00:49:41] Danielle has to buy save you up time so she starts yelling it hurts a lot it's like trying to push out a kid I'm dying I thought that was too much I thought it was way too goofy it felt like a

[00:49:53] dopey comedy it it made me feel like she's dumb because no one would ever buy that but then made me feel like the square head manager guys also dumb because he did kind of buy it

[00:50:04] and it just like lowered the intelligence of the whole thing for me for a few minutes there and it wasn't funny I didn't think that was my reaction to it it was my least favorite part maybe of the

[00:50:14] whole series I don't know it was so chaotic and I that energy is too much like it's felt like it was some of my different show to me almost they just go for a first yeah yeah she was definitely over

[00:50:29] the top with that I would have been more forgiving if I actually did think it was funny yeah I didn't love it yeah I was kind of like please come back see if y'all I can't listen

[00:50:41] to this yeah right there's that too I've already in order to remember I'm in order to show and amplify each other but then then say B.X.C.s well I thought what are they doing they're making

[00:50:51] super and then she says to saying they're melting liquid at smelmed like sugar and I was like are they rendering human fat I know I thought that's right and then you're like oh I was making

[00:51:08] honeycomb cookies so you could have rendering human fat and making honeycomb cookies both would fit in the show equally well yeah so then yeah then minion says to say B.X if you weren't telling

[00:51:25] me everything I'll burn your eyes out with cigarettes and say B.X just looks at her like what do you say to me bitch you know I was very scared that that was an interesting interaction so that makes

[00:51:35] me also intrigued to see what will happen in their relationship but I don't know I didn't really have a point all that just to kind of walk through the interesting interactions between these three characters yeah I I don't see the two of them becoming BFFs

[00:51:51] say B.X.C.s they're too different yeah they're way too different and say B.X I mean she's from North Korea like she escaped North Korea and she is focused on her brother and getting through

[00:52:03] this ridiculous thing that she signed up for and come back for not only one time but she's come back for it and I thought that was interesting too like not everyone came back but most of them like

[00:52:17] 93% of them came back yep and say B.X I guess the interesting the most interesting thing about her is she doesn't take any shit from anyone and she seems lethal and it's all in this you know little

[00:52:33] package so it's there's a solidness to her that is kind of admirable actually like yeah or she could just tell everyone what I really thought all the time like that but I can put you in

[00:52:47] a dangerous situation so you need to be able to handle it yeah she seems formidable she's a contender yeah yeah I feel like she's had to fight really hard and her life and she's at a point

[00:52:59] too where she's like been through it and is like hey yeah I got no words yeah yeah she's over it she's like nope I'm focused I'm doing this this is how it's gonna be all right definitely what you got

[00:53:12] so I want to talk about Bianchi who is number one 11 and his mysterious messages that come in muffins at least maybe they're not muffins they look like flat muffins to me um he's kind of

[00:53:28] eating pieces of it and then he gets that little strip of paper that's in it I thought song we've got that no oh no okay do we see what it said see I kind of missed we did not see what it said

[00:53:41] we did not miss it so yeah so yeah and I there's another point in the episode where he goes off in another direction from people I think it might have been after the challenge he goes off

[00:53:59] in a different direction from everyone else and so what does he have to like I just feel like he has some inside information maybe or connection somewhere yeah at this point I yeah unless I miss

[00:54:14] something I just feel like okay that's a little breadcrumb that's that's meant to peek our interest but we just yeah we don't but it's sketchy right I'm not the one that thinks it's sketchy it's kind of like

[00:54:27] why are you why are you being allowed to go off somewhere else what's going on yeah definitely one of the central mysteries of this episode even though it's a very short incident so it is

[00:54:40] we see him three times once he gets the fortune cookie message the second time we see he had the triangle and succeeded and the third time we see him he's being led down a different stairway

[00:54:54] than everyone else yes by who by one of one of the guards oh god how did I miss that for so reason yeah he directs him a different way than everyone else at the end yeah well we'll see what

[00:55:10] happens when I watch episodes now I think I just hyper at analyze maybe even too much sometimes every little thing that happens and I've just come become so accustomed to it that I yeah

[00:55:24] well in this show there's nothing that doesn't happen for a reason yeah exactly that was to mean something meant to make us wonder what's up but we didn't really have much to go on

[00:55:34] at this yeah there was one other little one that I did not notice until the third time I watched this episode which was the front man they say 93% of the people came back and the front man says

[00:55:49] okay continue to monitor the others and keep me posted I was like oh what's that all about yeah I guess they're gonna try to pull the other 7% in for a future game or I don't know

[00:56:01] maybe that's what yeah yeah because I was like can they still enter this game because that wouldn't be fair if they got to pass the Delgarna game without risk of life you know

[00:56:13] but I think you're right probably just to pull them into a future game maybe yeah they have everything figured out these it's a well-oiled machine and the guy that's the head guy that wears all black

[00:56:26] I just dip in calling him blackjack because he doesn't really have a name or a number and so I just call him blackjack I thought they'd call him the front man by this point

[00:56:37] the front man the guy with them like human face mask or angular yeah him I just I missed that so I've just been calling him so I think he answered the phone in one of the episodes and said

[00:56:51] this is the front man yeah okay okay okay David you got another one yeah so um I was just gonna follow on the element of mystery in this episode which is um there's several different threads

[00:57:07] of obviously there was the central mystery in episode one which now we know sort of what the structure of the game is but there are deeper and more intricate mysteries threads unfolding in this one

[00:57:20] so one of them is the one we just talked about what's up with number 11 what's going on with him yeah um another little one little tantalizing one is what's going on with Yunho's next door neighbor

[00:57:35] in the cubicle so he kind of looks at him weirdly when he's in his cubicle and then he looks at a meaningfully like the next morning too so something is going on there that we don't understand

[00:57:52] and my guess not not remembering because I forgot all the details is that he the guy next door knows who's supposed to be under that mask like they have some kind of a relationship but the

[00:58:07] guy doesn't realize that Yunho has taken his place maybe or maybe right maybe he's just acting a little suspicious or he did something that too yeah so he's observing him to figure out why

[00:58:19] this guy's acting so weird right but so something is going on there that we don't understand what happened to the brother we still have no idea and so that's a mystery yet to be solved

[00:58:35] I thought one thing fascinating in this episode and you sort of pointed to it with the on days the scale of this thing we're now getting a sense of when we saw the numb we knew there was a

[00:58:48] lot of people but we saw the number of vans and that they're all the same and how many workers there are and how big the ship is and how big the operation is behind the scenes and the secrecy

[00:59:03] behind it who is behind this thing and what really is the purpose of it all trump I think it's strong yeah good thing so that mystery is kind of has expanded I would say yes in this episode

[00:59:21] and then I think we also realized in this episode that knowledge and anticipation are extremely valuable determinants between life and death so song who is able to anticipate you know connecting the dots maybe number 11 was able to anticipate

[00:59:41] sabio with the help of song who was able to anticipate so we don't know quite what to anticipate on every element but we know that the fact of anticipation is very important you mean just trying to

[00:59:56] figure out what's going to happen next in all these areas so in all these mysteries those were able to get ahead of the game and one way or another are more likely to find it yeah yeah

[01:00:10] I thought it was a huge risk for me out as I would say the name was miniatm yeah miniatm yeah as a cat miniatm to cheat I mean that's sort of getting ahead of things but

[01:00:27] a huge risk like if they saw her doing that they would just shoot her on this spot you'd think would it's hiding under the slide I really get the impression that they want everyone to have an equal

[01:00:39] shot but I'm really glad that you pointed that out all those mysteries because just laying it all out like that just shows that that's another aspect of the show that they are doing so well

[01:00:51] is just keeping us wanting to know what's going on with this what's going on with this yeah and even though they might solve one mystery there's so many others yeah that you just you can't just sit

[01:01:03] back and relax it's like oh no okay that's finished but oh my we've got these five things over here to do next but there's but some shows are just filled with these mysteries and that is the main hook of

[01:01:15] the show and it's either all front of mind but for me I was actually kind of surprised you hear all these because there's so many other juicy things to dig into that I didn't even realize that oh yeah

[01:01:27] this is another driver you know you know what I mean it's just another one yeah some there front of mind and never get solved lost yeah exactly but that's also had a lot of other

[01:01:38] things that the mysteries were very big part of yeah okay oh let's talk should we talk about the dog-gone and game now I'm gonna do my whole thing on squid game challenge so after having

[01:01:50] benched the that show squid game challenge and talking about it for four hours on this podcast I couldn't help but think of it a lot when I was watching the episode and so first even when I just heard

[01:02:05] this show I felt immediately judgmental because I'm like isn't squid games at least in parts supposed to present the idea of this game as wrong you know a horrifying result of unjust wealth

[01:02:20] disparity and the people who enjoy the squid game are the bad guys and so now here's reality show enjoy it you know it's like oh I guess I'm the bad guy but it's an interesting conversation and I think

[01:02:35] just to take the other side of that I actually think that anyone who watched all of squid game the show the regular show and said they weren't entertained at least in part by the games in

[01:02:50] particular is lying you know like that that's a big part of it like I think it's very layered show but it does appeal for one to the same thing in us that likes horror movies it's it's

[01:03:05] fucked up and we watch fucked up horror movies it's also a side from the horrificness and also even the layered meaning and the intelligence of the show and all that it's just fun to watch people who are under pressure and have to navigate these psychologically tricky environments

[01:03:24] or these gamified environments and to wonder along with them what the nature of the task can games are why do they have to choose a shape you know oh that's what it's about and also

[01:03:35] to speculate about how we do if they were in their positions and that's all part of the allure of the squid game series and all the reality show has all that in common too like it's fun

[01:03:49] to see them I will they stab each other in the back or work together how are they going to how well have they been able to anticipate what's gonna happen next or not when the surprise comes

[01:04:01] up like it's the same on some levels it's the same kind of appeal in the reality show as the regular show and so I think for me that makes a big difference and then on the reality show they don't

[01:04:17] look for people who are so desperate that they're ready to kill themselves because they don't have money it's just people who want to be on a reality show of course yes some of them come from more

[01:04:26] of a economically disadvantaged place than others but that's kind of inevitable but you don't get the feeling that they went around looking for desperate people who need this or else they're going

[01:04:36] to kill themselves and another huge thing is in the reality show they're not at risk of harm or death well maybe a little harm if you believe some of the allegations that have come out but

[01:04:48] the idea is that they'll just lose and they'll go home so that makes a big difference to me too it's not like they're taking this squid game that was so wrong in this series and duplicating

[01:04:59] it in the real world it's got the interesting cool stuff of it but not so much the downside of it I know that's just one side of the argument it could still be argue the other way but

[01:05:11] that's kind of what goes through my head yeah I would answer two things about that one as I would say that and look I don't expect most people to react this way but this is my

[01:05:27] feeling about it and I would really like high level competitive endeavors competitive sports but to me the reality show version of squid game is kind of like touch football and I've had people

[01:05:40] say to me oh why don't they just play touch football then nobody would get a concussion and it would be violent and it's like yeah but without the stakes and danger of the violence the game is

[01:05:52] uninteresting like yeah anybody can throw a incredible football 60 yards and somebody can make a beautiful catch as long as nobody is trying to kill them while they're doing it what makes it hard

[01:06:07] of what makes it difficult it raises the stakes is that it is also a violent game but you feel guilty watching it because you also know it's a a violent game and all those emotions mixed together

[01:06:19] and I think the squid game show that's part of the brilliance of what it's showing us it's all going on at the same time we know it's messed up and we know it's wrong but we are also human beings

[01:06:34] and enjoy it ourselves and enjoy seeing other people in the life and we know it's not real too like I wouldn't want to see a real squid game right I would not watch it like when they have

[01:06:47] the faces of death that's purportedly shows actual people died oh it's for a lot of video stores I would never watch it no but but i that to me is what made the reality show version hard to

[01:06:59] enjoy because it's just a empty bubble gummished to me because there's no downside as you say they are okay they went home you know they got to be on a reality show then they went home I think as time

[01:07:10] goes on though having watched the first nine episodes once you get through the first two it's more compelling I think as you go it's much more compelling than when you start like the first

[01:07:25] episode was good but the more you go in and you see the connections between the two shows or lack of connection it it gets a bit more compelling especially too when you get to know some

[01:07:38] of the competitors yeah you get to know and I hear what you're saying I think part of it is subjective because for you when the stakes aren't as high it feels like touch football or there's always said

[01:07:51] flag football but for me just seeing people in this high pressure situation where there's a social aspect and they're um they have to navigate this these situations with each other and you get to see

[01:08:07] how they navigate it in front of the other people and then what they say when they go off and do their confessionals so you can see what they're really thinking and I just find it all fast and it's

[01:08:16] like a study in human behavior it's like putting them all in this lab experiment and getting to see how it plays out so but it's objective right like I'm not trying to say everyone should

[01:08:25] like this I'm just kind of saying why I like it no I get it and I think you make a good point to Anthony I have not seen the whole program yeah so I might have a different yeah yeah yeah

[01:08:34] yeah yeah I love to know what you think once we're yeah I'm you too so but I want to relate it back to this show so without all that in mind here the times when I thought about

[01:08:44] squid games the challenges I was watching this week's episode one when they lined up to get lunch they have the same tins and even the same food right definitely the egg and the right

[01:08:55] it's very similar yes it looks kind of good except they said it was cold so that's not yeah when Gihun sanghu Ali and uh number one ilnam form this alliance I'm so used to that now after nine

[01:09:12] hours of the challenge it's like yeah boogae you know yes but that's what I thought to you when I saw them do that it it took me right back to that yeah and it almost feels like that with a game

[01:09:24] we were getting in the challenge that they're just sort of like yeah we're all seem like fun people that would like to hang out they're not on the strategic they're being um when they get to the part

[01:09:35] where they have to choose the shapes and seeing them all trying to figure out strategy when they don't really understand the consequences there's a lot of that in squid games the challenge you know

[01:09:48] saying we've decided well at least what he says is it's best not to have all their eggs in one basket so they chose different shapes and I'm thinking trying not to be too swirler here but

[01:09:56] people having a picnic should maybe thought about that not having all their eggs and yes I think literally yes Jason um and in in in squid game the challenge the fact that squid game the show already

[01:10:09] existed made the shape choosing interesting in a much different way than it was in the original show because in the main show they don't know the consequences of the choice but in script game

[01:10:19] the challenge they do and that completely changes the dynamic in a fun way yeah there's just ways I guess I would say that you can come to anticipate some things and maybe you're right or wrong

[01:10:35] and that makes it also very interesting to see how people react that and when they get the whammy like oh yeah we had this team because we thought it would be this but it was that

[01:10:46] when you're in a sweating and the sweat drops on his cookie and he gave him the idea to lick it and everyone did that from the start on the reality show because it's kind of meta you know

[01:10:56] they learned what worked on the show so that was it's interesting to see how they'll act it's basically like a season two almost of squid game where the participants have seen the first season

[01:11:10] and then last just I hope for squid game the challenge season two the reality show season two if they have it that they do different children's games at one point in this episode of the regular

[01:11:23] show sanggu gu hu nali and il nama are all trying to think of what the next game could be and their name me off a bunch of I guess Korean kids games yeah allie doesn't know them because he's

[01:11:34] from Pakistan and that made me think that okay what games did I play that come to mind I thought four square dodge ball tether ball marbles hop scotch hop scotch yeah like green light jump rope duck duck

[01:11:49] goose tag and freeze tag and even some football a little bit don't just in dragons red roe right here yeah yeah I can imagine squid game versions of every single one of those games

[01:12:04] which then would make them all seem very different by the way like duck duck goose bam yeah but anyway for the challenge it would be fun to see them do some of those games next time

[01:12:20] do a season with American games yeah yeah yeah and then one last thing just on the reality show it's been really interesting to see how far some of the nicest and most likable players have

[01:12:36] gotten and how the majority of them has tried to keep things fair and honorable which I did not expect so that yeah I thought it would get more and more vicious as it went along and in some ways

[01:12:47] it did but it was pretty surprising if there are future seasons I think there's definitely potential for to get even more broken down like as far as contestants and how they will basically

[01:13:03] carry each other apart but this is the first one I go back to the first survivor it was it was nothing had really happened like that before at least these people going into squid game

[01:13:18] the challenge they they have the benefit of all of these other competitive game shows coming before so that they can take some of those things into this but I don't know that it definitely

[01:13:33] helped or hurt them in some cases it's interesting to see you know yeah and my guess is that the producers will try to learn from this and try to engineer it so that more viciousness comes out

[01:13:46] because that's what they want well they want that for good TV and that's kind of cool to see how yeah yeah David I think you'll like it if you once you finish with squid game

[01:14:00] I think because it will be fresh in your mind I think you may enjoy that maybe even as a palette in some ways I hope so I don't think you're gonna like it but well so I can be surprised

[01:14:15] okay David do you have any more? I don't I just have notes so if you guys have more points I've got one more small point which is the emotional tone of this episode

[01:14:29] so I would say every episode so far has had a dominant emotional tone and in the first episode it really it was shock the red light green light game is one of the most shocking

[01:14:44] things I think I've ever seen in any show that takes you so by surprise and horror I think in the second episode the dominant emotional tone is despair despair or desperation they really go deep into how dead end the lives are of these contestants

[01:15:03] eventually brings them full circle but I think in this third episode the dominant emotion is suspense and that's a fun emotional tone for an episode they really build up the suspense of what is the game in this episode we know it's a children's game we know now

[01:15:23] that it's life a death so the participants take a lot of steps to try to figure out in advance what it may be whether it's going up into the vents and seeing a mysterious concoction being stirred

[01:15:37] but the show plays this up we see the keepers driving a huge fork lift in with boxes of something you're like what is going on we see these mysterious shapes so we get some shock and

[01:15:51] visual violence at the end of the episode but I would say the dominant elements suspense yeah I can agree with that I mean in the first episode I think shock is definitely the one that sticks

[01:16:02] with you but leading up to that it's all about his addiction so I don't know what the emotion is for that but it just I just kept feeling him you know it was about him

[01:16:17] betting and betting on horses and then when he when he'd be so related when he lose he'd be so distraught so I think that a lot of that was just about how his addiction you know but yeah that just

[01:16:31] then when you saw the end that was the only thing you thought about so I guess I only have don't slay to so definitely want to go through your notes I just want to point out that some

[01:16:43] of the music that they're using in this series is are more lighthearted classical pieces that I associate with artistic performances and not a brutal survival game they use the blue daniel waltz which is by Johann Strauss when they're walking down yeah yes it's a beautiful piece

[01:17:08] and they're walking up and down these stairs and all around basically some of them to their deaths and I remember the first time I watched this thinking this is a beautiful piece of music and this

[01:17:21] is what they've chosen and I again as we talked about earlier nothing is by chance on this show they pick things specifically and I think that's just such a calming beautiful piece of music

[01:17:33] to be marching to your doom and I feel like as the series goes on they continue to involve classical pieces like that yeah I mean it creates these these moments but also it brings tension

[01:17:46] and some madness to like it adds to the madness they're very picky about what they choose and yeah well I think there's an interesting distinction too between the music that is being played in the world the characters are inhabiting so that's where they were hearing the blue daniel

[01:18:08] when the game is about to start and some other classical music yeah it's where the front man was playing the little jazz mechanical device which is very in congress with the violence on the screen

[01:18:22] and then the show also has incidental music which accentuates the story and his emotional in a different way well they have that creepy yeah they play a lot but there's also an incidental music

[01:18:35] that's emotional yeah I mean to me that song Lou Dan you it's just another aspect of how this the juxtaposition of the lights the child like the innocence even the goofy comedy in this episode

[01:18:54] and then blowing someone's brains out on a slide so the juxtaposition happens in the same shot in the moment it's in a playground with cute clouds on the wall and this horror and yeah they

[01:19:08] they have all types of music but when they play this light jazz in this like classical it's all part of that aesthetic you know or even just like lining up to get the same lunches you had as a kid with

[01:19:20] your milk it's it's really interesting and weird and twisted so one other note about that specific piece of music when I always think of when I hear it is the movie 2001 in which that piece is used

[01:19:37] it's actually used well I think it's Roy Scheider who's the character who's taking this slow spaceship trip to the moon or to the moon base where they're going to investigate the strange

[01:19:50] happening on the moon and it's very languid and slow and the scene takes a long time but that's a movie that has some of the same disturbing themes of technology gone wrong humanity gone wrong

[01:20:08] violence so and filmmakers tend to know a lot about film so I wonder if he chose that not as coincidence it definitely gives it it makes it feel that this whole thing about

[01:20:25] combining the childlike or the lights and calm with the horrific of really distinct feel you know I don't know if I didn't think of anything else quite like that that I've ever seen before

[01:20:38] I'm just trying to figure out why why would you do that I mean when theory I had at the beginning like when they showed the kids playing the squid game game early on is just something statement about

[01:20:50] how even children have these drives and you know they're sort of innate so there's something about that but I also just think it's just for the twistedness of it you know like it's about making entertainment out of something very serious and horrific you know the whole

[01:21:13] people being so desperate that they're ready to kill themselves because of unjustness and society in the wealth gap and turning it into a game show is sort of trivializing what's going on in their lives and so maybe the the light in the childlike

[01:21:29] aspects over the game like aspects of it early yeah we're truly actually trivializing you and dehumanizing you for our own entertainment it all kind of fits together and I think another theme in this show which is that the nice world we paint for our children

[01:21:44] is not real yeah that's not sad yep all right any other notes definitely no I'm good speaking of notes we saw Junho taking some notes I think in the notes app on his iPhone

[01:22:01] and it's in Korean and maybe I'll do a little more research on this but I'm just fascinating how you'd write in languages like Korean and Chinese using a keypad you know he was like building

[01:22:12] the characters by pressing yeah we we both don't know that as well really interesting it is yeah and I know Chinese is what you call logographic where each character or logographic where each character represents a word it's not you don't know the pronunciation

[01:22:29] by looking at the character Koreans phonetic where each character represents a sound but still they're characters that don't have single keys on a keypad so yeah I don't know I mean I know there's a way on the phone where you can actually swipe to draw characters but that's

[01:22:44] all what he was doing and then my only other note is more of a question so number one you'll know him says nobody sees many stars these days what did that mean I don't know why he said

[01:22:58] that like we don't go outside we don't pay attention to it all we do is look at our phones and technologies so we're not really paying attention to what's going on around us I mean

[01:23:11] we're so busy in our lives too that we don't take time to stop and actually enjoy something that's beautiful like stars in this guy that's a great call like about that yeah I had also taken

[01:23:24] it to mean maybe maybe he grew up in the country or the societies who used to be more rural and now we're all trapped in giant cities you can even see the stars yeah that's that's good too

[01:23:40] yeah yeah it's so nice sometimes just go camping look up and be like oh wow that's all there all right let's get too soon listen your feedback all right Wendy and says the massacre set

[01:24:31] in a children's playground is unsettling we are starting to see our main characters form I'm really attached to oh he'll nom already he's very he's just got always got this light

[01:24:45] coming from in him and it's easy to feel connected to him I feel like he's kind of a mystery too I'm very curious about him yeah because he hasn't given us really any information yet

[01:24:59] yeah we don't know much about him that's right but he's definitely got an appeal I would say he's got that on women that you know people can go through when their parents get old

[01:25:10] where the child becomes the adult and the old person is almost like the child he's child like and his some his behavior yeah yeah charming Maria Lawson says re last week's episode love this episode even the very gross who framed Roger Rabbit like steam roll of that horrible

[01:25:33] boss's hand that scene is one I both want to watch again to see the amazing special effects but also absolutely never want to see again and a race from my mind because it was so gross

[01:25:43] delving into these handful of characters back stories and the varied reasons they would be motivated to rejoin the game was great player number one to your point is probably my favorite

[01:25:54] and I just want him to be okay which of course means he will probably die first and horribly oh not first we know he's the first see I think I think Maria gets it you're just waiting to see

[01:26:07] something bad something to mess things up because yeah we have to be cautious I guess yeah don't get to attach anybody yeah that steam roller scene she mentioned so I usually if

[01:26:20] you list a podcast because shows that I'm on I'll put a clip from the episode up at the beginning and because this one is in Korean and I don't want to have dubbed the dubbed version

[01:26:30] then I tried to just pick clips where you can tell what's happening because of the sounds you know the first one was gunshots in the green red light green light game and this was him getting

[01:26:43] shoved into that machine and having his hand go through but then sometimes when I'm trying to get the right spot I end up having a watch it a couple of times and I was like oh I don't want to watch

[01:26:53] this anymore I don't watch it like three times so I felt like I'm in the same way as you Maria like I don't want to see that anymore but if he listened to that episode you heard it at the beginning

[01:27:03] so one more message from Matt King I think first time Matt writing in and he says I was surprised that player 212 that's me and yeah was able to quite openly use a lighter on her

[01:27:17] needle without any of the guards seeing her with this I think she was hiding under the slide or something she was like she was but I still think that they should have seen it yeah departmentus is

[01:27:28] mentioned to disbelief yeah I think so too our hero is lucky break sweating onto his honeycomb and inspiring the licking technique was fantastic to see also for two of this that

[01:27:39] the undercover cop who was posing as a guard and would have been in trouble with his superior square head of guard at the end of the honeycomb game saw the supervisor executed for taking off his

[01:27:49] mask and then the cop is able to take on his mask and roll oh is that what he did did he take it on? I don't know about that I don't think he wore the mask but he was saved yeah yeah he took it

[01:28:04] he took it okay maybe he will take that roll I don't remember I don't know what he's gonna do but it seems like he did get lucky there yeah he's going deeper into the maze so we'll we'll see

[01:28:26] all right that is our show thanks so much for listening everyone I'm glad to get back to the the real show it's good next up will be the fake show squid game the challenge

[01:28:43] what is finale and I can't wait to see what happens that'll be out on Wednesday and then Daffy and Jonathan and Ben and I are gonna record the next day Thursday on it so it'll probably

[01:28:54] be out Friday our episode and then in a week from now David and I will be back with Veronica to cover squid get well at least that's the plan to cover squid game season one episode four stick to the team

[01:29:05] if you want to write in or send us a voice message about it you can find our contact information at podcast to get dot com and while you're there be sure to check out our other shows yeah one show

[01:29:17] I recommend that I feel like a lot of people who like squid game would like because it's also a dark and intelligent show is yellow jackets and Daffy and I are on our companion podcast for

[01:29:31] that yellow jacket's WTF along with Wendy and Penny and we have a blast covering that show and it's one of my favorite shows the last few years I have not watched yellow jackets yet I'm excited to

[01:29:41] still have that out there for me I can't wait to hear it's got some lost elements in it and yeah I think you're gonna love it. I'm jealous for people who get to go through it the first time.

[01:29:54] All right that is our show. Thanks for listening. Go outside and look up. So I do want to do a very quick spoiler segment just because so this again we do this at the end

[01:30:14] for people who've already seen the show or don't mind being spoiled so if you don't want to be spoiled you should just turn me off right now and don't keep going because there's some pretty big

[01:30:22] revelations that we're gonna be talking about so bye everyone who does want to hear this. Bye. So I went I just want to one say I went back and looked at the first episode because I want

[01:30:35] a couple of corrections one I actually meant to do this during the regular podcast it wasn't saying woo that held Gihun in red light green light it was Ali. Yeah I think we said it was saying

[01:30:48] we both was Ali and then the second one is I looked and during the red light green light game when you could see through the camera I guess that was inside the girl you did see the green

[01:30:59] outline around oh ill-nob just like everyone else so he wasn't set apart in that way like we had said that was a tell or whatever just want to make that correction I think that's an interesting

[01:31:11] mystery that we will be talking about when we finish the whole show what do you mean like oil nom what really was his participation and danger level in this thing yeah because in this episode

[01:31:27] he may have been acting but it seemed like he was just discovering the um delgona game just like everyone else and I think there's a chance he was because if he really wanted to participate in the game

[01:31:44] then he any wanted the excitement of it then maybe he wouldn't want to know what happy he doesn't have advanced knowledge yeah yeah I think there's another opportunity to for him later on in the game that I'm not we can talk now spoilers it's okay

[01:32:07] there's a late there's another game coming in this series where if it had gone probably according to plan he would have probably just disappeared oh yeah let's not go into two

[01:32:19] many shields but we'll keep the put up in that yeah I don't I don't want to go that deer we'll talk about it as we go along and yes talk about whether he was in danger or not

[01:32:31] um yeah but I just noticed he's so glad that Gihun is back and I guess he just is you think you look at it through a different filter when you know that these are his games that

[01:32:43] he's like oh good I love I wanted to see you playing or whatever yeah it's it's so fun to go back through this series having watched it once already and knowing what we know because now I'm

[01:32:57] looking for things mostly with him too yeah with him I'm looking for things and I'm not because I'm one of those people who watches something and tries to figure it out

[01:33:09] before the end comes and this is something I didn't see coming so now I'm going through looking for anything I could have missed and I'm not really finding much that I missed. I did think that he was weird though and that there I think I remember thinking there's

[01:33:29] something with this guy that's not what he seems I don't think I thought oh he's in charge of the whole thing but I just take him at face value I don't think. No definitely not. I think there is a moment

[01:33:41] I don't want to get into it now we'll get into it when we get there but I think there is a moment where he steps out of character oh yeah. Interesting to see if I can pinpoint that yeah anything else you

[01:33:51] guys want to mention nope David. No um I don't think so I mean let's say without getting into too much detail about what's to come but I totally grew with Daphne it's interesting to watch

[01:34:04] the details of some of the characters knowing where they are going to go. Mm-hmm. It is you look for little hints here and there for different things and you see some little

[01:34:18] glimpses but there's nothing driving you to say oh this is exactly what's going to happen I can see this coming I don't really see that. Yeah which is great. I feel like it's laid out well and

[01:34:30] that makes it even more enjoyable as we go through it a second time. You're here.