21: “Lovers Walk” (BTVS S3E08)

[00:00:00] Okay, round two. Name something that's not boring.

[00:00:05] Laundry? Oh, a book club. Computer Solitaire, huh?

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[00:00:25] Chumba Casino.com. Set me on fire. I mean, is that too much to ask? You know, some little sign that she cared? It was that truce with Buffy that did it. True said I'd gone soft. Wasn't demon enough for the likes of her.

[00:01:40] I told her it didn't mean anything.

[00:01:42] I was thinking of her the whole time.

[00:01:44] She didn't care. So we're gonna be discussing season three, episode eight, Lovers Walk, directed by David Simmel and written by Jane Espenson and Dan Beber. The original air date for this one was November 24th of 1998. So the Tuesday before Thanksgiving that year. And Lovers Walk was actually nominated for an Emmy award

[00:03:01] for outstanding sound editing in a series.

[00:03:06] And you may have recognized the voice you heard earlier and staying up a lot and because I was I was dealing with second graders at the time. So it was a, but I only had two more weeks to go after Thanksgiving until I was done. So I, you know, I was just about to start. I was just about to start the path to being an actual human being after that.

[00:05:24] at the law school to ask her to tape Buffy for me so that I could watch it when I got home for Thanksgiving.

[00:05:26] And she was like, very confused by the request, you know?

[00:05:30] She was like, oh, I don't know.

[00:05:32] I haven't set up to tape Oprah.

[00:05:34] And I'm like, they're not at the same time.

[00:05:35] And so I had to like walk her through the whole process

[00:05:38] of taping and it didn't work out.

[00:05:40] She didn't tape Buffy, but fortunately some family friends

[00:05:43] who lived nearby did.

[00:05:44] And so I went to their house to watch.

[00:06:41] or my real world. Whatever the one was where they were driving

[00:06:43] in the little RV.

[00:06:45] Road rules.

[00:06:46] Road rules, yeah.

[00:06:48] Yeah, so there would always be an X-Files marathon

[00:06:52] and in later years a Buffy marathon

[00:06:54] and a Star Trek marathon.

[00:06:56] And my brothers and I would like jockey

[00:06:59] for who got to control this television

[00:07:03] at which time and for what episodes.

[00:07:05] And we would flip back and forth during commercials.

[00:07:07] It's a classic for a reason. So let's go back to see what was happening in

[00:08:21] the news.

[00:09:26] and the Carsey Warner Mandebok Company to create a cable television network aimed at women.

[00:09:35] This was like big news. It was nobody's ever aimed media at women before. Like it was huge.

[00:09:42] Was that the old network? Yeah, it became oxygen network and then later, yeah.

[00:11:02] Geraldine Laborne went to my college and as did Gates' net worth is estimated at $12 billion. Whoo! Yeah, that is so cool. I thought the article was hilarious because they were talking about Bill Gates as if nobody would know who he was. Yeah, by the way, the grade debate topic. euthanasia. Yeah, euthanasia. I've just looking at my school that I teach at, there is no way that would happen in our seventh grade classroom even today.

[00:12:21] Well, we had, you were the special nerdy kids off to the side.

[00:13:25] against cigarette makers to recover Medicaid money spent on diseases relating to smoking. This also coincided with cigarette makers raising prices.

[00:13:31] That agreement was on November 20th, where they came up with the advertised limited advertisement

[00:13:36] in the payment of $206 billion.

[00:13:38] Three days later, the companies announced a $0.45 a pack increase as a result of said

[00:13:44] $206 billion tobacco settlement. there were still people who were like, no, cigarettes are good for you, right? Like there's, this was when that shit was- Do you recommend them? Yeah. I think to the movie The Insider, I think was based on all of this with Russell Crowe and I think- And what's the name? Not De Niro, Pichino is in that.

[00:15:00] Yeah, I think that was from this too as well.

[00:15:03] And then on November 24th, something that I guess

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[00:16:24] Lucky in line at the deli, I guess? Aha is everything. He's drunk. He's evil. He's sad. He's predatory. He's erratic. He's abusive. He's murderous. He's torturous. He's hilarious. He's mopey. He's weepy. He's suicidal. He's friendly. He's forceful. He's childlike. And then ultimately satisfied in the end, which left us all satisfied because this this it. He flies out of the car amidst beer bottles and bottles and cans. Chuckles is clearly drunk and again says home sweet home and that immediately sets him off on his path of I don't know what you would even call his path in this. It's not really destruction although it kind of is but dude and he's violent and he's brash and he pretends to be kind of from like a working class background. But underneath it, there's a really smart strategic thinker. There is strategist. That's the word

[00:20:21] I was trying to think of a very smart strategist. And there's simple, but we're so used to and shows when I say shows like this I mean obviously Buffy and Angel to an extent aren't your typical sort of like you know monsters of the week episodes but the take of not wanting to destroy being a bat a batty in the episode and not wanting to destroy the world having that nuance of I just enjoy the

[00:21:42] havoc I can create in this world why would I want it to go away it sounds silly but it's such a It's great time developmentally to fall for somebody like Spike at the age of 11. Yeah, perfect, perfect. Just to really just send you in the wrong direction for your teenage years. Make sure you because I think it's such a good, almost character study of Spike. Like you mentioned Jim, there are so many things that he experiences and portrays in this episode. And it's, come on, we all know what's happening here. Like he's just like, I gotta say it. I'm not going to pretend that you guys are just friends. It's not, you know, it's not believable. He's right. It's ridiculous. Yes.

[00:25:40] Well, I mean, so, so is, is we've any out of you as he is in this episode and like,

[00:25:46] he has so right through it. And I took care of it after, which is what a trooper. Yeah, that scene is so funny when he's watching Angel and he's clearly just wasted. There's like drunk and then there's

[00:27:04] what Spike was in that scene where he's Yeah, I think he didn't do a thing

[00:28:26] That's right. It was the beginning. He's drunkenly singing my way like he's having a manic episode, right? He's like going up and down in his mood so quickly. He's like sad and then he's violent and then he's sad and then he's drunk and then he's, you know, he's got an idea and then he goes up and down and up and down. And even in that scene with Willow, he starts out being like, I'm so sad.

[00:29:40] I'm so sad.

[00:29:41] And then he's like, I haven't had a woman in weeks unless you count the shop.

[00:29:45] And it's like, Oh God, what, I don't want to hear about any of those stories. They drive me nuts. We'll, I'm sure we'll talk about them at the end, especially with what happens to Cordelia, but like you're watching Willow and this is what like, like really centers this episode on how erratic spike can be and that he even though we all love him, like he can still, you know, he kills that shopkeeper pretty menacingly and then that scene with Willow.

[00:31:04] I mean, but Alison Hanegan, like it mayor's like oh Spike he was up to all kinds of shenanigans last year and like and how he's more occupied with his golf game and he's

[00:32:20] just sort of off-handedly is like yeah have trick-take it came out. But it's it could not be a more different show from Walking Dead. Oh yeah. That's that is very true.

[00:33:40] One thing.

[00:33:44] Didn't they say in this episode too, and I know him from lots and lots of stuff, character acting, and he's just really like kind of amazing actor. And it just, he looks up and he's like, yeah, I'm just, you know, funny. I think he must have been having the time of his life in this episode. He plays a lot of more serious characters.

[00:35:04] He does a lot of drama. With Spike's success as a character, I kind of love that he succeeded and became a fan favorite almost in spite of Joss Whedon and how J both thought Joss Whedon was telling each of them individually to be like Sid Vicious, and the outside of a group of outsiders, which just made everyone resonate with him and fall for him even more. And he no way! Like I was so excited to see him and he does an episode of Supernatural and he had a Marvel show that was called The Runaways and he just keeps popping up in different sci-fi things and I just I feel like he has achieved a certain status in the world of like sci-fi fandom where people are like it's like

[00:41:25] talking and in a Comic Con six or seven months ago in England, James Marster said he was so thankful for that episode because when, and this really

[00:41:31] speaks to kind of the acting of the show, I think, but when he first met

[00:41:36] Chris McArpener and Buffy, he just assumed she was the mean girl that she

[00:41:42] was in the show. So they never, they two female leads that kind of got him onto the show, one by leaving and one by saying, yeah, that's the one that can call me out. I mean, it could not be more brilliant. We'll talk, we'll get there. Season four is coming, but, Spike does something to the chemistry of the group

[00:43:02] that no one else can do.

[00:43:04] And it's the pinball metaphor or this episode in particular, it's him and Joyce. And I can't believe we haven't talked about that yet. I know. I just want to play. I want to play this.

[00:44:21] His, um, I saved these sound bites as spike weeps at Willow,

[00:44:25] spike weeps at Joyce, spike weeps at Buffy and Angel. No, this is different. My favorite part, of course. It's like, it's the same as Joyce when she's like, do you live here in town? Right? I love this one right here. Well, she sounds very unreasonable. I mean, that is Driscilla. She is very unreasonable. She is the epitome of very unreasonable. And Joyce is just being so sweet and such a nice hostess

[00:46:42] with hostility and he can't get in the door. It's such a fun moment and Joyce is like,

[00:46:45] oh yeah, you're not invited.

[00:46:48] But you think though, back to when like the last interactions

[00:46:52] that Angelus and Spike had,

[00:46:54] and all's Angelus does is mock and mimic him.

[00:46:57] And this is, this is, this is,

[00:46:59] this is Spike getting his revenge.

[00:47:01] And he's in Buffy's house with Buffy's mom having hot cocoa,

[00:48:05] like, oh God. And the angel's like, now what? He's like, we killed a homeless man on this bitch. She's like, man, truth, those were good times. And he's just like, sitting there

[00:48:12] laughing and reminiscing about how he begged for mercy. And that only made it harder.

[00:48:19] And the whole thing out without anyone there. And Buffy and Angela are watching him. And You think about scenes that they like we talked about this in the last episode that I did. Spike seems to be in a lot of scenes where you kind of when you look back in the grand scheme of TV shows now, you ask yourself goes, I really agree. Yep. That's just perfect to live from Seth Green. But those storylines just needed to have like go from A to B and we got that. And that's good because the whole rest of the episode is like a spike celebration. It's just like, let's just enjoy Spike. With lucky land slots, you can get lucky just about anywhere.

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[00:52:15] Do not use GLP1s if you or your family have a history of thyroid cancer. for us all to enjoy. And he's funny with Angel. You know, after this Angel gets his own show, we all know that. And Spike stays on is on Buffy in season four. And so we don't get to see Spike and Angel together again for a long time, which is too mad because they hate each other in the funniest way possible.

[00:53:44] I'm so there for it. just mean, it's just like mean person. But he's like, I can use my angelis powers against spike and it's allowed. Like, it was like, he gets a little thrill out of being mean to spike. Oh, yeah. Let's just, that's never going away. No, never ever. Well, and I think

[00:56:20] Spike is, it's so hard to pull attention away lot like your regular voice. And he's just like, I've been told that. I've been told that, yeah. It's so great. He is so perfect. And when he gives Willow the little witch Pez,

[00:56:24] oh, I know.

[00:56:25] It's a sweet moment. growing because of her feelings for him. And you know, I do think poor Willow was in a really hard spot. I think she truly did love Oz, but I don't think Xander had the same types of feelings for Cordelia of it and how she's just like, I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to hear your apologies. Like I just like, just go away. We're done. We're just done. It's so sad. The big, the big part of that scene too, she says that,

[00:59:02] but then the camera is on the other side of the bed and she turns and he walks out you can have a 14 30 SAT and maybe burn down your high school and still not be able to get into school. But you know, okay, but she she says a courty thing when she says, well, I think this is great. Now you can leave and never come back. I mean, that in a positive way. Get out of Sunnydale. That's a positive thing. What kind of moron would ever want to come back here,

[01:00:22] which of course, that we see spike back. But but again, that think she really, next to Spike, she really gets a chance to shine. I think people write off this actor, Chris McArpender, as like, oh, well, she was a Laker girl, she's just pretty, and they don't take the time to look at how deep her characters are

[01:01:43] and how much acting she's really doing.

[01:01:46] And I was a little guilty of that too. about like, what did she say? Drum traffickers or something like that? What if Columbia and Drug Lords kidnapped? Yeah. Like, she is worried about Xander. Like, she truly loves him and she has grown so much. And we see it. And it's just, it's so heartbreaking to see the build up

[01:03:03] and the way that her face falls when So yeah, I get it. And then the camera, you know, it does it pan or it turns, but then we see Oz and Cordelia walk into frame. And as the viewer, I was like, oh, I forgot that they were coming. Oh, that's like, you feel this, like your heart sinks for them.

[01:04:20] And then I love that Oz is immediately practical.

[01:04:24] We have to get out of here.

[01:04:25] And Cordy, Cordy can't even talk.

[01:04:28] Like she just has to run away. in the tweet, my daughter doesn't wear hair up because she has a scar on the back of her neck. She thinks it's ugly. Yeah. What people will think. I think it's bad. Ask, can you please show her that her daddy's not the only one that thinks so likes and comments and retweets super appreciated. It was literally just he put it out into Twitter. Yeah. Two weeks later, two weeks later, charisma, carpenter, responds. And it has just made my respect for her grow, you know, exponentially ever since Buffy wrapped up. And I found my way on the internet to all of the accounts of ex Buffy stars. And she just she's just one

[01:07:03] that seems like a truly genuine caring person. And I say that fake out scene. The first time I watched this. I hate that. I hate those scenes, but I remember 100% falling for it. Well, I felt I know what happens. And I was like, I'm in my head's no fun. We should keep a running tally of how many magic shop owners we see. I have started adding up body counts for, you know, students at Sunnydale and teachers and then regular like name civilians, unnamed is one of my favorite places in the country, and how Salem is known for the famous witch trials. It also has an amazing history of maritime trade and pirates. There's a whole pirate history to Salem, as well as the witch history.

[01:11:00] But when you go to Salem, there's 15 magic stores.

[01:11:04] Like there are people walking around the streets of Salem No, Lucky Lane Casino with cash prizes that add up quicker than a guest registry. In that case, I pronounce you lucky. Play for free at Luckylandslots.com. Daily bonuses are waiting. No purchase necessary. Boy, we're prohibited by law. Eighteen plus terms and conditions apply. See website for details. smell what no Yes, it is He's like why does it smell like church in here?

[01:13:45] You know

[01:15:00] It's just explaining it to Xander. It just, I had Flash forwards that were all said flashback, I guess. And I was just like, Oh, Willow, but Xander, the fact that this person she cares about, she almost axed him last time there was a love spell and she is still willing to go through with this without his knowledge or consent. And I was like, Oh, she's so confident about it. When

[01:15:05] the when she goes to the magic store, the magic shop person is lights or like you move things with your mind or like there's so many cool you're basically describing the force from Star Wars so yeah I'm all I know yeah I did a lot to cross over. But a great book and the beginning, the drunken version of it that he's singing. Yeah. When I love you some Gary old man, he drives off into the desert with his blacked out car.

[01:17:43] And there's like, but you know. Yeah, but that person is not going to survive. Also true. Well, if it's that's a thing, I guess you have to very strategically roll down your window and like pull them in real quick. Yeah.

[01:19:00] Bad news bears.

[01:19:01] It would be interesting.

[01:19:03] They probably didn't drive all the way to Brazil.

[01:19:05] They probably. Yeah, so you know, they probably hot to boat a time or two and stash the car somewhere. Yeah. I just love the idea of following Spike and Drew on a road trip also. That sounds funny. Yeah, it won't. It says it's 2022 miles, but it doesn't, it just refuses to

[01:20:21] let you find out how to do it. That's like, does not compute. So try to do it, idiot.

[01:21:22] It still lives. It still lives free. That's good.

[01:21:23] That's really good.

[01:21:24] The minute I introduce Google Earth, that I have to preface it with, okay, don't be stupid

[01:21:29] and be don't spy on anybody.

[01:21:32] Mr. Pete, here's your backyard.

[01:21:34] Oh, yeah, great.

[01:21:36] How do you, by chance, have the, there were the two monologues that Spike did.

[01:21:43] The one was when he was talking to Spike and Angel about being friends. I'm nothing without her. Yeah, that'll have to agree with. You're pathetic, you know that? You're not even the loser anymore, you're a shell of a loser. Yeah. You're one to talk. Meaning. Well, that's time I looked in on you two. You were fighting to the death.

[01:23:01] Now you're back making googly eyes at each other like nothing happened.

[01:23:05] Makes me want to heave.

[01:23:06] I don't know what you're talking about. Carrie, you had mentioned like how the first seven episodes and all of the seasons like spearhead everything in your 100% correct And then we really get the ball churning in this episode spike comes in reeks is havoc and then breaks everybody up Yeah, it is crazy how much this episode sets up. I mean, I mean it it sets off the the willow and and Oz kind of

[01:25:22] You two, just friends, no danger there. Oh, sod the spell.

[01:25:24] Your friends are in the factory.

[01:25:25] I'm really glad I came here, you know.

[01:25:30] I've been all wrong-headed about this.

[01:25:32] Wearing, crawling, blaming everybody else.

[01:25:35] I want Drew back.

[01:25:36] And then I love how he says this.

[01:25:38] I just got to be the man I was, the man she loved.

[01:25:42] I'm going to do what I should have done in the first place.

[01:25:44] I'll find her wherever she is.

[01:25:45] Tie her up, torture her well, Buffy and Buffy. And I like how, when Willow is listing off the options to Xander, there is no option somehow of Buffy or Oz or any of them finding them.

[01:27:05] They're just there. deals a lot with starvation and that would be yellow jackets. Let's also show about teenage girls in the 90s going through some serious, seriously horrible, traumatic stuff. I don't mean to laugh, but it's just so like, freaking dark. It's like just some normal teenage girl problems in the 90s

[01:28:20] stranded in the Canadian wilderness.

[01:28:24] Maybe a touch of season two. And my mind just wasn't there. So I put it, I put it down, which is sad because I still haven't gone back to it yet, but now I'm starting to feel. Yeah. And I think, yeah,

[01:29:42] but I think it's going to be the right mood. Yeah.

[01:29:45] But I, and I think, you know, listen, I mean, Xander is a horrible character. And I listen, I mean, he's a horrible character. And you know, but it's funny, it's funny. I've never had, you talked about it, I think earlier in this episode, we talked a little bit about

[01:31:05] that first girlfriend isn't necessarily the girlfriend that you want to date, but you sometimes dip your toes into the pool. And I think we've all had an experience where we've ended up dating face up to the consequences of their actions. What Willow and Xander really should have done was just not spend so much time together alone anymore. Like there should not be any scenes of the two of them like talking off in a corner together alone because that is when this stuff happens

[01:32:20] and they're not, well, Xander's kind of dumb,

[01:32:22] but Willow's not dumb.

[01:32:24] She should know like always stay around other people

[01:32:27] when you're with Xander or something bad's gonna happen. He's concerned. He was like, what are we freaking out about? What's going on? Also, it's not a fan of how Xander and Willow handled this situation. Yeah. Well, that's a smart dog. Pixel, my cat, the pot, the podcast pixel. He actually watches TV with me, but he has not shown any interest in Buffy.

[01:33:42] His favorite show to date is still Game of Thrones.

[01:33:47] That's fantastic.

[01:33:48] He really likes Game of Thrones. And it used to be on it like two in the morning and I would stay up too late and watch it and then give myself nightmares And for the life of me, I can't remember what it was called But I can close my eyes and see these cat people clearly It was

[01:35:00] Wore a fly like I think if I saw it today, it would still give me nightmares

[01:35:06] And now I'm thinking of that dr. Who episode like there's like a watercolor print. And then on top of it is a picture of this, this like hipster woman, although hipster wasn't a thing then. It's like a crazy clown, but kind of chic. I don't know, it's a wild shirt. If she had been wearing that with like regular blue jeans and it was the only bright cloud thing, it loud thing, it would have been kind of cool.

[01:36:22] But of course they pair it with these like,

[01:36:25] like dark, burnt orange pants different. At the later scene with the when they're at the lockers, there's like, there's like a thing where first we have Willow and Oz and then we have uh Cordy and Xander, they like sort of switch places. Willow is now she's got the pastel like mesh sweater over a cami. She's like dressed like Buffy. And Oz is wearing like pink polka dots over an orange band tee. And

[01:37:42] I'm like, Oh no, he's starting to dress like Willow. It's fun. But the fashion continues to be just indicative of pairings and of personalities. And of course Spike has his punk rocker look that is amazing. Now he seems to have clothes. He's found clothes. He's got shirts all the time now. Because when he first came out from hell, there was no shirts. Now he's furniture.

[01:39:01] He has shirts. And he's back to wearing his long jackets did this 25 year old have several like pea coats and trench coats? Nice. And all black, like a black, like a button down shirt with black pants. And didn't I maybe get that from watching Angel throughout this?

[01:40:21] That's fantastic.

[01:40:22] Maybe.

[01:40:23] Maybe.

[01:40:25] I mean, look, David Boreata the season, because I look like a whiny at anyways. But yeah, no, no, yeah, his clothes in this episode were fantastic. I listen, I still have, I still have the pea coats like in there. It's a good look. And it's coming back so good for you for keeping them.

[01:41:40] Well, there's just something about it that is's of course, I mean, the book's about being alienated. So of course, he, you know, there's some depth to it. But, but if you wanna talk about pretentious, if you just, if you wanna talk about like an honest trailer and you did one on Angel, like it, in this time.

[01:43:01] Oh my gosh.

[01:43:02] Oh, oh, oh, it would so be night at the Roxbury.

[01:43:06] It would so be pretentious. Dately bonuses are waiting. No purchase necessary, Boyd, we're prohibited by law. Eighteen plus terms and conditions apply. See website for details. Well, and there are some other moments in this episode that we're definitely kind of dated and made me flashback, but in particular, when Buffy says to Giles,

[01:44:20] be kind, rewind.

[01:44:22] Oh.

[01:44:23] Yeah.

[01:44:23] I was just like, oh gosh.

[01:44:25] I was like, how't hit them with at least one of them, but just for yeah, I had forgotten that I got that from this episode. I've said that to people. Oh, yeah. I've said I violently dislike you.

[01:47:02] And I didn't remember that I got it from Buffy.

[01:47:05] And when I when I was watching the episode to a weekly basis. It was after all of this. It was season four for Buffy and it was season one for Angel. So I watched this one in the ways that we did back then. Like I would get a DVD and they wouldn't send you the set. They would send you one of the DVDs.

[01:48:20] So I would periodically get a DVD or I would see, you know,

[01:48:24] repeats on the weeks that the show wasn't putting out new shows.

[01:49:27] There's so much other parts are so important the layers of Cordelia like it's it's like you're watching an onion of an episode Right like you're just peeling off a layer after layer after layer of the onion

[01:49:30] Which I think is very much metaphoric for the series

[01:49:35] Especially going forward as we start heading down a path

[01:49:39] We see so many things that happen in this episode that sets our characters off

[01:49:43] especially going through the end of season three and even season four of

[01:50:42] We're not friends.

[01:50:45] We never were.

[01:50:48] And I can fool Giles.

[01:50:51] And I can fool my friends.

[01:50:54] But I can't fool myself.

[01:50:57] Or spike for some reason.

[01:51:04] What I want from you I can never have.

[01:53:40] You don't need me to I had remembered that he was like, you're probably right, that's good for both of us. But no, he was like, no, I have to keep seeing you. And she's the one who And again, he's the 260 year old vampire and she's a 17 year old and it strikes me, you know, when you look at all the relationships in this, so we talked about, you know, Xander and Willow specifically, two like words popping to my selfish and selfless.

[01:54:43] this very episode, the one person who does the hard thing is Buffy.

[01:54:44] Yeah. Because of Spike.

[01:54:44] Well, she and Angel also both seem to have this almost superhuman ability of

[01:54:52] self discipline and self control.

[01:54:55] And Angel has had centuries really to work on that and tame it and perfect it.

[01:55:03] And Buffy is just now learning how to navigate it, but she has such a

[01:56:07] this love that is palpable on screen and through their actions. There's a reason everyone's worried when Angel's back, like they know how big of a

[01:56:12] drawing is.

[01:56:14] The chemistry between the two of them is undeniable.

[01:56:18] And everyone around them has seen it, right?

[01:56:21] They've all seen what Buffy was like when she says that to him with that, it's not really a blankness. There's that tortured piece to it, but she's resolved.

[01:57:42] Yeah.

[01:57:44] And the quiet is interesting because they're both so passionate,

[01:58:45] don't love me, which is exactly the same words that she said. And I only have eyes for you in that murder suicide when he was

[01:58:50] angeles. But there was that one episode where they were

[01:58:54] reenacting a scene from someone else's life in the past, which

[01:59:01] I thought was a wonderful kind of bookend. They do such a his hand rather badly while filming that scene where Spike wakes up after being passed out drunk and his hands on fire in the sun. And Marston just did not go to an on-set medic. He just acted through it and filmed and then only went to a hospital directly after the shooting wrapped. So Spike and Drew Silla are definitely modeled off of Sid Vicious and his girlfriend, Nancy Spongen. But the song My Way is really based off the Sex Pistol song, but not really, because in 1986, Gary Oldman played Sid Vicious

[02:01:41] in a fantastic movie called Sid and lovers apostrophe walk.

[02:03:04] But the introduction to Ronda Wilcox's Why Buffy Matters it was love or curse. Question mark. French, it was frustrated loves in German. It was love in other troubles. And then an Italian in Japanese, it was kind of somewhat the path of lovers and walking path for lovers. And I was like, that's interesting. Like the paths of love, the course of love was

[02:04:20] another one. So it's interesting with gives it a very different day. Kara, I assume you agree. I love this event. This, like I said, we both agreed top five for sure. It might be in my top three. I am, you know, once we sit down and go through a couple more season recaps,

[02:05:40] I'm gonna try to put together a top 10.

[02:05:43] And I could rewatch this episode over and over again

[02:05:46] and never get one of the greatest episodes in Buffy history as a result of it so it's not all bad. That might be referring to next week's episode. I think so. Someone who you, someone you don't know, but find yourself completely spilling your guts to. It's just fantastic. Point two, I hate the Willow Xander scandal. I've named it Zandavar. Zandavar. Zandavar. Oh, that's fantastic. That's coming, that one will be using that.

[02:08:20] I love that crossover.

[02:08:21] Awesome, Abby.

[02:08:23] And I'm just happy to see it's demise.

[02:08:25] Amen to that. they brought him in the same way they did last time, blowing into town and taking the Sunnydale sign out. James Marsters is on fire in this episode. Literally. Yep. He does drunk better than anyone. He brings a level of fun to an otherwise really sad episode except for his gross comment to Willow about not having a woman in a while.

[02:09:45] Ew. Yeah. Yeah. with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead. We see with the actual lead.

[02:11:00] We see with the actual lead.

[02:11:01] We see with the actual lead.

[02:11:02] We see with the actual lead.

[02:11:03] We see with the actual lead.

[02:11:04] We see with the actual lead.

[02:11:05] We see with the actual lead.

[02:11:06] We see with the actual lead.

[02:11:07] We see with the actual lead.

[02:11:08] We see with the actual lead. He HS tapes and video stores where have all the good things gone? Oh Man, I don't miss the Hs tapes. I'll be honest about that. Oh gosh. We're kind of a pain But videos next wait, Teddy. Oh my gosh

[02:12:26] That's fantastic. I am so glad they're brightening just awesome writing. So I wish I could pull off workout gear the way Sarah Michelle Geller does. Yeah, they did a close up of her. I cannot comment on her workout gear. I'm just saying.

[02:13:41] It was like, well, I'll comment on it,

[02:13:43] but it was like a boob shot.

[02:13:45] Like it was so intentional.

[02:13:48] Just right. graduating and figuring out how to navigate the big changes that follow. Yeah. She said, LOL is under reminding Willow of how love spells don't really work out for him. It's the understatement of the century. Alison Hannigan really shown in this episode. She went toe to toe with James Marsters and did it well.

[02:15:00] Spikes whole monologue about Drew was brilliant and how each new scene, he was repeating the

[02:15:05] same sob story to a new character. accordion. Oz, I like it when they switch it up. Then she said, I love this. Oz being able to smell Willow. I can't decide if it's gross or sweet. Yeah, but he does note that he doesn't want to be able to do it. Like, yeah, weak. Sneaky for the show runners to show a funeral after Cordi passes out in the basement. Yeah, I thought that was a little cheesy. So sneaky. charisma nails that moment in the hospital with Xander. Yeah, we talked about that. Very sweet BFF conversation between Willow and Buffy at the cemetery. Yay for Buffy telling Angel

[02:17:42] it's time to move on. Not only has Buffy gained confidence with

[02:17:45] her book smarts, but also emotionally very mature for her I think she said her head exploded and Joel says I've been on the helm out too long. That was metaphorical. Yes The magic shop lady after Spike lists all the awful things he wants to curse angel with we don't carry leprosy Joyce when all hell breaks lucid her home. I'm confused again. Will it was a witch?

[02:19:06] Cordy worrying about Xander and Willow. What if they've been kidnapped by Colombian drug lords? It wasn't metaphorical, right? Lived on the hill with an out way too long. When Buffy talks about her mom's reaction to her SAT scores. And the sectional is in the, in where, wherever Angel is, has been repaired since last week. Totally forgot that Spike attacks this lady. Oh goodness, the blood on his mouth? Evil church.

[02:20:21] We all agree Willow, this asking is,

[02:20:23] yeah, I don't think we've ever seen a chaos demon,

[02:20:26] or do we ever get to see a KSD in?

[02:20:28] I don't remember. And Buffy gets a two for two vampires, one steak. Anytime this series is this magic shop, get to messed up. Just as many times as Buffy's house, I'm sure. In this fight, you can really see the difference between Sir Michelle Geller and the height of her stunt double. What is this viewing this show does this a lot where we have a character almost die and then they cut straight to a funeral

[02:21:41] or a grave site ceremony, something like that.

[02:21:44] Only for us to discover that the character is fine. wellow. This whole us thing is bleh. I find it quite gross that Zander seems to relish it and to not think that he needs to stop flirting and kissing he kind of wants the best of both worlds and she's really uncomfortable but he still kind of pushes it. I just, that does not sit fake out with the funeral right after the scene of her being impaled and then of course it's not her so there was some pretty cute filmmaking. Season 3 is so good. Might be my favourite season of from people. So please write. Also at Podcastica.com, along with finding all this information so you don't have to just remember what we've just told you, you can find links to our social media pages and all the other podcastica shows. And there are so many of them.

[02:25:40] There's just a lot of great content on there.

[02:25:43] If you are looking for a podcast to listen to, I've been here listening to episodes since the beginning, and the first show that I listened to is the very first, it was The Walking Dead cast, which is now of course called The Cast of Us, for The Last of Us, which is not just for The Last of Us, but for all of the Walking Dead shows as well.

[02:27:00] And it's hitting like a sweet spot right now

[02:27:03] of like this blend of why I initially started listening

[02:27:07] in 2010 because of the OG cast of us. That's a fantastic podcast that goes way back to 2010. And there's a ton more, but I'm not gonna get into them this week, maybe some other week

[02:28:20] when I'm gonna be doing the show.

[02:28:21] Yeah.

[02:28:23] I was like, I have subscribe, leave a rating or review. Please do that. It really helps the algorithm. Yes. And next time season three, episode nine, the wish is up.

[02:29:43] And you are definitely going to want to tune in for that one.

[02:29:45] I hear you guys are going to fun facts to know and tell. Yeah. That's too bad. That stuff is private. Also, Giles keeps them in his office, in his personal files.

[02:31:03] Most importantly, it would be wrong.

[02:32:07] beginning signs of an addict when Zander tries to show to stop her and he's like, you know, this isn't a good idea, evil church, it's witchcraft, she gets defensive and she lies, she's like, it's

[02:32:14] chemistry and and she's all like angry at him for pointing it out like when he's like, you really

[02:32:20] think you need magic to stop feeling lusty about me and she's life in some way. And they're just too young and inexperienced to use it wisely. Yeah. And what she's trying to do could go wrong in so many ways. So many ways. And she has seen it go wrong in so many ways.

[02:33:41] Personally experienced.

[02:33:42] Exactly the same thing she's doing.

[02:33:45] It's wild. immediately resort to magic to make her life easier and to do it without other people's knowledge or consent is such a problem and such a red flag that becomes a glaring red flag that blows up in her face essentially in the future and watching her behavior in this episode

[02:35:03] so closely mimic, you know,

[02:35:06] especially her season six arc you know, they were never successful enough for the networks to be wholeheartedly behind them. And so it was always like, is it coming back next year? So I doubt they had like a seven season. Well, yeah, and correct me if I'm wrong. But of course, I think at the end of, I believe at the end of this season, this is when the network started to split apart, like CW was always, always.

[02:36:22] Now that happened after.

[02:36:24] Okay. But I, but, but correct me if I'm wrong, though, you know, even some season one things that end up coming back that obviously could were not planned in season one, but the way they integrate them. It's just done so well. Like the, it was hard not to say this. I know we all were like, Oh, season four, season four has problems, but it's fun. It has so many fantastic moments. And it's very worldly, it's funny. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, yeah.

[02:39:00] I mean, it's,

[02:39:02] and I know a lot of people don't like Riley.

[02:39:04] I happen to like Riley.

[02:39:06] It's funny, while when it was airing and spikes relationship will end up. And it's so interesting how you mentioned that you hadn't remembered Angel's character kind of resisting at this point and not wanting to let go. I didn't remember that either because I spent most of the time with graduation in my head and Angel making that difficult decision

[02:40:23] to leave and I was like, oh, this makes it

[02:40:25] so much more painful.

[02:40:27] It's like and that. And correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't Drew Silla start dating the chaos demon because she's pissed off because she believes that Spike is in love with Buffy? She's in love with Buffy. I don't know if she believes he's in love,

[02:41:40] but she says like the Slayer is in his mind

[02:41:43] and that like her presence is part of him. as Driscilla comes back into play in later seasons. Like if those two actors didn't get together and work that subplot out even before they shared it maybe with the writers. That is interesting. Because I just, every time I watch this now when I see Buffy and Spike interact, it's hard not to think about, you know, ultimately where they end up.

[02:43:00] And of course, they have so much chemistry.

[02:43:03] Like, I mean, the banter between the two of them

[02:43:06] is always fantastic. Spike is so different than Angel. Angel's purpose and his role as a character, it just doesn't allow for that much lightheartedness in general. And then when you bring Spike in to kind of play off with the Scoobies, especially once you have the introduction of Anya,

[02:44:20] it's just so much fun.

[02:44:22] There are so many episodes coming up Can I be blind too? That is a great one. Oh man, gosh this show. It's so well-rounded. And then we're so mean to each other afterward when Spike is like, I'm not the one who wanted wind beneath my wings for the past. So hot.

[02:45:40] So good.

[02:45:41] I cannot wait.

[02:45:43] Oh my gosh.

[02:46:43] and be like, oh, that character's not that great. Like everybody loves him all the time.

[02:46:45] See, that's why he's always been.

[02:46:46] He's never been said vicious to me.

[02:46:48] He's always been Billy Idol because Billy Idol's always been kind

[02:46:50] of that loveable like punk.

[02:46:53] Still around and jokey and funny.

[02:46:56] I got to pull some angel into this.

[02:46:59] Angel.

[02:47:01] I just watched this episode, which is kind of funny,

[02:47:03] but Angel gets some rebar through him and he says to Cordelia,

[02:48:03] three special, which would be more special if we got to see more of Spike. But, you know, I'll take.

[02:48:04] I know.

[02:48:05] Yeah.

[02:48:06] And then I do love that.

[02:48:09] Cordy says, you know, who would ever move out and come back.

[02:48:14] And that's actually exactly what she does.

[02:48:16] She moves to.

[02:48:17] Right now.

[02:48:18] And she does not come back.

[02:48:19] And she never, she never, ever comes back.

[02:48:21] But I do have a special, when you were talking about cats earlier, I do have a special, a

[02:48:25] special little thing to maybe tie this whole thing together. But he did say that he modeled his voice after all of the voices in Monty Python and that he never He never really picked one until Anthony had came up to him one day and said listen I can't go back to England having you doing what you do so

[02:49:42] Anthony had spent six months

[02:49:47] Working with him while they were shooting the show on getting a good dialect and again where he is the headmaster at this school. And he, so there's a lot of CGI. He never goes to the CGI part of it. He acts like the human version of the CGI. And it is unbelievable how amazing his face acting is.

[02:51:02] And his movements are in that. And you get to really appreciate how amazing an actor he is.

[02:51:05] Because honestly, like he is that, it's right back to me. He has a he has a twinkle. Yeah, he does. It's very appealing. And then, and I've known people like this in real life who are who are so charismatic that you just fall under their spell. Boy, against your better judgment. Turn on the news. And then it's only when you

[02:52:20] get distance from them that you're like, Oh, that person's an asshole. That's how we got, well, this is not the Ted Lasso we visited podcast, which you can listen to on podcast a girl. They are doing a rewatch of Ted Lasso as well. I will say the only other note that I had that was slightly spoilery, every time I rewatch this episode

[02:53:41] and Oz realizes that he can smell Willow and smell her fear.

[02:54:42] Yeah, we'll get there. But yeah, I just every time I see this one, it makes me jump to that episode.

[02:54:48] It's like, oh, yeah, the smelling thing.

[02:54:51] Yeah.

[02:54:52] My, my, I have one last note and this is, this is the sad one for me.

[02:54:58] And we've talked about it actually two or three times.

[02:55:01] And I, I, it just hit me.

[02:55:03] It just hit the first time I I haven't, I try not to think about that episode at all, but this is the first time in the rewatch that it popped into my head. So I just wanted to throw that out there as we start barreling towards it. Yeah, there's a line in season four when Buffy's buying her textbooks at the college bookstore and she's like, I can't wait till my mom gets the bill for this.

[02:56:23] I hope it's a funny aneurysm.

[02:56:25] Yeah.