551: "Vatos" (TWD S1E4 Rewatch)

[00:00:00] What the hell is this? He's had an asthma attack. Couldn't get his breath out of a sudden. Thought you were being eaten by dogs, man. Can I have a word with you? A podcast dedicated to the show. Is that Hedgewalt in the background? I don't know.

[00:00:16] I think it's Hedgewalt. Hedgewalt. Hedgewalt. Hedgewalt. Hedgewalt. Hedgewalt. Hedgewalt. Hedgewalt. Hedgewalt. Hedgewalt. Hedgewalt. Hedgewalt. Hedgewalt. Hedgewalt. Hedgewalt. Hey, Zedheads. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Lucy. And this is The Cast of Us, episode 551. In this episode, we're covering The Walking Dead, season one, episode four, Vatos.

[00:01:02] Vatos. More another non-English word. I feel like we're back on The Daryl Show. Ha ha. Oui oui. So did you go back and look at the guy on the RV in the pilot? I don't want to answer that question. We'll take that as a yes.

[00:01:19] I literally made Peter do that. I was like, Peter, Peter, can you pause it? Can you pause it? There's one thing I just want to check. And we both were like, damn it, it is a gun. But yeah. All right. It wasn't Daryl. Whatever.

[00:01:30] So I'll be collecting my beer in July. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. I was raging. Absolutely raging. But anyway. I promise this is going to be the last time I bring that up because I'm not that kind of guy. All right.

[00:01:44] A couple things before we get started. So as you know, these rewatch episodes release weekly. We're recording on episode five wildfire in a couple of days on Wednesday and episode six TS 19 on Friday this week.

[00:01:58] So if you want to get your comments in for those episodes, it's best to do it as soon as you hear my voice right now or as soon as you can. Absolutely. I already have comment posts up in the podcast Facebook group for both of those.

[00:02:11] The link to that's in the show notes or as always, you can send an email or voice message to talk at podcast.com. Brilliant. Do it. Second, if you're digging the rewatch and you want us to keep going as long as possible,

[00:02:24] it would really help to spread the word about it. Send people to the cast of us.com and there's links to where they can subscribe there to all their different podcast platforms. I think any walking dead loving person might like to know about it.

[00:02:41] Post it on socials, post in walking dead groups on Facebook, Reddit, Reddit or wherever. If you do that and tell us, we will give you a shout out on the podcast. And thanks so much to Chantel Hislop for sharing it to the walking dead Reddit page.

[00:02:57] And thank you to Samantha Brunon for sharing it with your walking dead friends and family. Appreciate you guys. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Very nice. All right. So here we are. It's the walking dead season one episode four. Vatos, how did you feel about this on rewatch in general?

[00:03:13] I remembered not liking this episode, but I actually really enjoyed it, especially the second rewatch. Loads of good lines and laughs. And I don't know. Yeah, it was actually better than I remembered it being. So it was a pleasant thing to look at. I'm almost exactly the same.

[00:03:29] I mean, I love the zombie attack and I always did. Yeah, I was waiting for it. When are we going to get some zombie attacks? But as far as the Vatos storyline, I was like, ah, it kind of feels like it's out of some

[00:03:40] cheesy TV show or something on first watch 13 years ago. Now I liked it more on first watch, you know, first rewatch and then second time just like you, even more. I found some depth to it that I hadn't realized before.

[00:03:54] And I'm like, no, this is a good one. So I liked it more, I think, than ever before. Great. So thanks for listening. We'll see you next week. Okay. Harbingers of death.

[00:04:07] So four episodes in and it's the first time we see a zombie bite or kill anyone on this zombie show. I remember we had Robert Kirkman on the podcast sometime in here and I said that because he wrote the episode, right?

[00:04:21] It was the first one he wrote and I'm like, I asked him something about what was it like to write the first time and he goes, oh, you're right. It is the first time he did like didn't even realize that.

[00:04:31] But as a zombie movie fan watching this show, I remember being like, what are we going to get some zombie movie type stuff? I mean, the first episode was pretty close. It was scary. The second guts was thrilling, but not really like a horror movie.

[00:04:43] I would say the third episode, tell it to the frogs might as well been a camping soap opera. It was good, but it wasn't a zombie horror. So for this, this was welcome to me as much as I hated to lose Amy, who I think is a great

[00:04:54] character. She, um, you know, we thought she was the first major character to die, but I would say now I think Ed is just as much a character as Amy, even though we don't like Ed. Oh yeah. One of them that had much screen time.

[00:05:09] Ed's the first one. I always answered that wrong in trivia questions, but I think it was a, it's Ed, we, Ed, Amy, Amy died early in the comic too. I think she was the first major character in the comic.

[00:05:23] So it seemed at this point in the show we were hewing pretty close to the comic, but um, later the show ended up diverging in some pretty big ways. While generally staying pretty close though. So they kept it fun by sometimes confounding our expectations, but sometimes not.

[00:05:37] I really enjoy, I really enjoy the way in hindsight they just kept doing that weaving in and out of the comic and changing things up, but keeping the major storylines. I think they got a lot of more confidence with it in the Kang era to remix and reuse

[00:05:53] and hint and play with expectations a little bit. I thought that was really cool. And the way that evolved. I mean, I think they did it all the way through like Shane living past where he died in the comic, you know? I think so.

[00:06:05] I think they changed things, but I think in the Kang era they like took different characters to different places, used character names where we were expecting different things, gave storylines to different people. Dante. Yeah. But like, you know, Bob, I mean Dale, Bob kind of took Dale's place.

[00:06:22] It bums me out that we lose Dale in season two. I think I'm going to get bummed out with some of the stuff that we're now like, oh, that was contractual or that was about people disagreeing with showrunners. Jeffrey DeMunn was a big friend of Darabont.

[00:06:35] That's why he left. The original JDM. That's right. So that's what from now on we say JDM. That's who we mean. So anyway, I think watching this episode now, I feel like the show was, even though Kirkman

[00:06:50] apparently forgot that the show was aware we hadn't seen any zombie deaths yet and was ominously building up to it in this episode. The signs were subtle, though. Jim digging holes, even watching it now. I was like, I can't remember why he was doing it. I'm an idiot.

[00:07:04] But I was like, yeah, what's he doing? I forget. But he's digging graves because he had a dream that people were going to die and was delirious from heat stroke. Is Jim canonically psychic? You know, it seems a bit woo woo, but his family died.

[00:07:22] And so death and zombies are on his mind. And it is the zombie apocalypse. And this happened to just about everyone else on the planet. So yeah, it's not like waking up on a regular Saturday, digging six graves and being like, I told you. Yeah.

[00:07:36] So it does feel like a Stephen King psychic thing. But when you really think about it, it's like, yeah, that was a safe bet that this is going to happen sooner or later. You just happen to get the timing right or wrong. He'd been doing it every day.

[00:07:48] They just hadn't noticed. He's like, I'll dig another one today and just see. That's right. He might have. Darryl said to Rick, you've given away half our guns and ammo. And Rick says, not nearly half. And Darryl says, for what?

[00:08:01] A bunch of old farts are going to die off momentarily anyhow. Seriously, how long do you think they got? Rick says, how long do you think any of us? So that's another little hint, you know? Yeah. The necklace, like, Maria still has that mermaid necklace.

[00:08:16] I believe it's a mermaid. It doesn't look much like one, but it is a mermaid. Yeah, I know. It's really small. But whatever she was going to give it to Amy for her birthday, she needs wrapping paper

[00:08:24] from Dale and Amy never gets it because Andrea says her birthday's tomorrow. So we know she didn't give it to her. And that's like tragic. Like Amy had her birthday the next day. So that makes it even more tragic.

[00:08:36] And also just seeing this tender moment with Amy and Andrea makes Amy's death sadder, which I'm sure that was the point. But it's also a harbinger. And later on in the series, we would have been more suspicious, you know, seeing a tender moment with anyone.

[00:08:48] You're like, oh, I think early on, maybe we didn't. It didn't land that way. But later, if you saw someone have like an actor-y scene, you'd be like, oh, maybe they're going to die. And a happy moment as well. The kind of like, we're all relaxing.

[00:09:04] We're feeling really good. And then it's like, no, don't do that. But most of all, it's Dale's Faulkner quote. He's talking about the watch. He says, this is from William Faulkner's The Sound and the Fury, by the way, paraphrased by Dale.

[00:09:20] I like what a father said to the son when he gave him a watch that had been handed down through generations. He said, I give you the mausoleum of all hope and desire, which will fit your individual

[00:09:29] needs no better than it did mine or my father's before me. I give it to you not that you may remember time, but that you may forget it for a moment now and then, and not spend all your breath trying to conquer it.

[00:09:39] Amy says, you're so weird, which is funny. But I don't think I realized this until now, looking into it a little deeper, that that speech is about death because a mausoleum is a tomb.

[00:09:51] And he's saying time is the mausoleum of all hope and desire, which basically means we're all going to die. And the idea is you can't avoid death. So enjoy your life while it lasts.

[00:10:02] I give you this watch, not that you may remember time, but you may forget it for a moment now and then, and not spend all your breath trying to conquer it. So it's great because it's occurring during this pleasant moment.

[00:10:14] But it's also a harbinger of what's going to happen in about 30 seconds, which if you look at his watch, you would see that. And it also comes back in the show. Yeah, season five. Season five.

[00:10:28] And I was really surprised when this bit happened because I had it in my head that Herschel said it to do with the pocket watch. Because I always thought it was said to Rick, because the way that it's used in season six

[00:10:41] is about kind of Rick adjusting to Alexandria and life there. So yeah, the episodes 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16 are named Remember, Forget, Spend, Try and Conquer, which I always thought was really cool when you realize it's happening.

[00:10:57] So it was really awesome to know that it was actually Dale that said that. It felt more meaningful somehow. Yeah, and it when we talked about those episodes, I think we just said, yeah, these are from Dale's speech.

[00:11:11] We must have tried to figure out why what what the deeper meaning was. I don't really remember those episodes right now, so I don't know. But maybe if you and I make it to those, we can talk. Think more about it.

[00:11:22] Is it more about Faulkner or Dale or both? I was thinking about that because I think of all the seasons, five and six, but probably five are the ones that I don't remember the best. I think five and six. They're good, though. I know that.

[00:11:40] Yeah, they're the ones I'm really excited to go back to, because I'm like, oh, I don't actually remember a lot of what happens. But it was so nice to hear that Faulkner quote in context.

[00:11:49] Herschel's watch speech was how his grandfather shoved the watch up his ass and then gave it to his son. That's 100% accurate. Yeah, that's definitely what happened. I don't even need to go and look at the script because I'm certain that's true.

[00:12:03] You don't want to be betting me on stuff. No, I won't bet you anything. I've learned my lesson. Just kidding. That was what's his name? The guy from Pulp Fiction? Yes. Christopher Walken. That's the dude. Yeah. Great speech. I like this idea that, look, don't...

[00:12:26] I feel this way too. You need to have goals in life, but also life is short, so you need to enjoy it along the way. That's kind of what he's saying. And they're following it. They're having this fish fry and it's really nice until the uninvited guest drop.

[00:12:40] But they're sitting by a fire at night, fish fry, smiles, quoting literature, joking around. And I'm thinking, you know, one of the sort of silver linings about the zombie apocalypse is it causes people to get out and mingle with each other.

[00:12:53] They would have just been in their homes. Carol probably having to deal with Ed's shit. And I also realized for the first time watching this, they actually haven't been able to do

[00:13:05] this kind of a thing until tonight because when Ed tried to make a fire, Shane made him put... Well, Carol ended up putting it out. And I didn't catch it before, but Morales says he built up the rocks higher around the

[00:13:16] fire so they could make it a little higher and it wouldn't be seen. So to them, this is like the first time they've been able to have a nice moment like this and then it just gets fucking ruined.

[00:13:30] Well Carol's starting to, I don't know, build her confidence a tiny bit because she takes Sophia out there and she's like, well, Sophia wants to be there, so we're going to do that. And I was like, good for you. That's good. I like that.

[00:13:43] I was getting child molester vibes there. He's like, why don't you hang out with your daddy in the tent? And Carol seemed a little worried, right? I don't know. Absolutely grim. Yeah. I was like, no, no one's going in that tent. Absolutely horrible.

[00:13:56] So yeah, just, I don't know if I realized how many signs there were. Of course it's clear by the end that Jim's holes were a sign of what was to come, but there was a couple other things here that were kind of cool.

[00:14:12] It's not one of my points, but I just want to say I really like the guy that plays Jim. For a character who's really not on the show very long, he just carries such an amount of pathos and sadness. I don't know.

[00:14:25] I really am appreciating him a lot in this rewatch. And one of my notes is, is Jim the first kind of manifestation of PTSD that we see in this episode? I know everyone at this point probably has it, but the way he talks about what he's been

[00:14:43] through and things like that, it's very dark. It's one of the darkest stories that we've heard so far. And even in the grand scheme of things, pretty dark. You know, what's that line he has?

[00:14:52] The only reason I walked away is because the dead were distracted eating my family. That is, you know, it's a lot to unpack there. Yeah. It reminds me of Sam, actually. That's it. The dead were too busy eating my family. Yeah.

[00:15:13] And I remember at the time I knew, I think I knew from the comics that his family was eaten by zombies. So I could appreciate his, Jim's, well this guy's performance more in earlier episodes

[00:15:28] because you just, you can tell he's just kind of a shell of a man, you know, especially when you know that he's playing it through the first three episodes too. He's just like, no, he's great. Yeah, I agree. I think he's really good.

[00:15:44] I'll go chronological and talk about Amy and Andrea because they get the cold open. I find the cold open a little bit cheesy. Like I don't find it the most, it feels a little bit expositiony.

[00:16:00] But when I read that, when you said just there, reminded me that Kirkman wrote this, I'm like, well, it would work in a comic book. So I wonder if it's just the format of it is it feels a bit heavy handed, but it's lovely. Like it's lovely.

[00:16:12] It explains a bit more about their relationship. It explains a bit more about the way that their personalities are different and how their parents treated them differently. And we get a bit of a broader context of what is happening outside of Atlanta in that they

[00:16:28] are not even bringing themselves to think about the possibility that their parents might be alive in Florida. Yeah. Because it's so early there, like we don't really know what's going on for sure in the rest of the country. And they can't bring themselves to think about it.

[00:16:42] But obviously it is a massive harbinger of Amy's death because they seem to reach some kind of peace and understanding of one another. I don't think they don't have a good relationship. But I think there's obviously some distance between them with the age gap and the way

[00:16:57] their dad treated them differently and how different they both are. And obviously we then see Andrea trying to get something to wrap the necklace in and it's just all a bit too nice because we know what's going to happen next. And it sucks.

[00:17:12] And Laurie Holden nails it in that final scene where she's looking at Amy like it's so brutal. Says I don't know what to do. And I'm trying to be nicer about Andrea and to Andrea this season.

[00:17:26] So yeah, I liked seeing the two of them together in that beautiful quarry. Absolutely stunning scene just the two of them on that boat. And it was funny, Dale's watching them but there's this weirdly ominous music and I'm like oh.

[00:17:42] But then you realize it's because he's caught sight of Jim and he's digging the graves. So it was an interesting… What's Dale planning? I know I was like what's Dale planning? Is he going to shoot one of them? Like what's happening here?

[00:17:53] So yeah, for me Amy and Andrea was a highlight of the episode. Me too. Yeah, I didn't find it cheesy. I know a lot of people did. I was totally taken in by it.

[00:18:03] I mean, I know it's probably just there so that you'll feel more connected to Amy and it'll make her death harder, right? That's why it's there. But it's a scene that really for me works. I think the acting is really good on both actors part.

[00:18:22] And it's just a sweet moment and I love the idea that only under these really crazy conditions would they ever realize oh my god, our father was not… We totally misunderstood something about our father. There's a lot of misunderstanding in this episode.

[00:18:37] And it turned out to be a sweet revelation realizing that he was tailoring his parenting styles to each of them meaning he understood them and that was really sweet. And then it got them, like you said, thinking about them in Florida and feeling sad thinking

[00:18:50] that maybe they're okay. And then the whole thing about, all right, remember his rule, no crying in the boat, it scares the fish. I thought was funny and they didn't need to then say, spell it out, that that was more

[00:19:03] for dad than the fish which made me feel like they think we're stupid. Like yeah, we know. But yeah, I'm not necessarily trying to be nicer to Andrea. I just want to be, try to be as objective as you can be about something like this.

[00:19:22] And yeah, because she bugs the fuck out of me later on. But in this episode, I thought she was great. Totally fine. Same with last episode and this episode. It's an absolutely pivotal moment in her development as a character losing her sister. I'm sorely on.

[00:19:35] So this is what turned her into a biatch. No, I'm just kidding. This is what turned her into a moniker. Women, am I right? All right. Let's see. My next one is characters being treated poorly based on lack of deeper knowledge about them. Part one, the Vatos.

[00:19:57] So but actually, I think the Vatos and Rick's group, they make a lot of assumptions based on sort of a misunderstanding and kind of their initial sort of posturing anyway, because they're in that shitty situation and they just dig in on that and act as if it were

[00:20:16] true. And that's, that's what happens in the world. And it's unfortunate. You know, I'm always preaching. You should give people the benefit of the doubt even as you're being smart and safe. But just, you know, don't make a lot of assumptions.

[00:20:33] And so it was an unfortunate course of events. Glenn gets the bag of guns. Then Daryl comes on this kid and he starts screaming for his friend. It's basically this kid's fault. He's an idiot.

[00:20:47] And Daryl is trying to get him to shut up and pushes him down just to be safe so the zombies won't come. But then his two friends come around and it looks like Daryl is assaulting the kids.

[00:20:56] So they attack Daryl and they're hitting him with a bat, which is pretty brutal to watch. And then Glenn comes up and I don't know, you know what happened. They end up kidnapping Glenn and Daryl shoots one of them in the ass, which I presume that

[00:21:13] was on purpose because he could have been shot somewhere else that would have been more lethal. Just enough to get his attention. And then when they end up, well, they end up with this kid, one of the vatos. Vato, by the way, just means man.

[00:21:30] It's kind of a familiar way of saying like dude or guy. But it can be from what I've read, friendly or derogatory and in some contexts has gang connotations but not all. So the variability of it works here, I guess, you know, could mean something bad, could

[00:21:46] mean something benign. And then back when they have this kid and they're figuring out what to do, Daryl says want to see what happened to the last guy that pissed me off and throws Merle's hand at him. That was really funny. That was hilarious. But not helping.

[00:22:00] Not helping. And also like all the times in the Daryl Dixon show, I was like, Daryl would never grandstand when interrogating someone. And I'm like, oh, no, no, he would. Yep, he did. Yep. Threw a hand at that dude. Yep.

[00:22:12] He didn't make a big speech, but yeah, it'd be funny if he'd like to start. I mean, not funny, but in a way he's like start stabbing him and making a speech and we're like, oh, yeah, yeah, he did do that.

[00:22:23] I thought he was just on top of the trailer. And then so back at the Vatos place, the leader Guillermo comes out, won't make the trade for this kid and Glenn insists on getting the guns to or else they're going to be in

[00:22:36] a firefight, which is fucked up and hardcore. But I guess from his point of view, he's got people to protect and those guns are like a matter of life and death to him. And then Rick has the worst plan ever. What do you say? Rick's plan is terrible.

[00:22:48] Let's go in with our guns right into the middle of their base and have a shootout right like face to face. Like, is it even a plan? I mean, he's just banking on them like caving basically. But the alternative is a lot of death.

[00:23:04] And I'm like, dude, I know you don't want to give up your guns, but if there are two options or give up the guns or go into the middle of their place and have a shootout, probably A is better, you know?

[00:23:17] So anyway, only because grandma came in with her kid de-escalated. And she says some guy's having trouble breathing his asthma. I love this funny sequence. She leads them back through what's revealed to be an assisted living facility with all

[00:23:32] these elderlies and they get to the guy with his asthma breather and Glenn's there. I'm like, oh, I guess they didn't have any problem letting Glenn know what was going on. He's just hanging out. And Rick's like, what the hell is this? And Glenn's like, oh, asthma attack.

[00:23:44] He couldn't get his breath all of a sudden. And T-Dog's like, I thought you were being eaten by dogs, man. And then there was a little white chihuahua. Those dogs are amazing. Leopard skin puppy bed. Hey, he bought them from...

[00:23:55] He bought them from Satan at a yard sale. That's right. That made it even funny. And Rick's like, can I have a word with you? And so the misunderstanding is straightened up here. And it takes...

[00:24:10] For me, especially on first watch, it really took the punch out of the episode and made it feel like a comedy almost, like silly heartwarming comedy. Right? Oh, these guys aren't so bad. But it is deeper than that.

[00:24:24] It's about having to appear tough and dangerous in this world. And later when T-Dog says to Guillermo, guess the world changed? And Guillermo says, no, it's the same as it ever was. The weak get taken.

[00:24:35] So presuming he actually was in a low income gang life situation, his reality might have felt similar pre and post ZA, always having to be tough and fight. And when he said that, no, it's the same as it ever was. The weak get taken.

[00:24:50] And he seems to be listening intently to that. And I think it's actually pretty prophetic for the show. Like that's a theme throughout the show. So anyway, we find out, you know, they're on staff at this place and he's the custodian, et cetera.

[00:25:08] But I think this guy, Neil Brown Jr., who played Guillermo, a lot of people love him. I do too. But I also feel like it might be a little stilted or something, but there's also a lot there going on too. I think there is a stilted…

[00:25:23] It feels like a stage performance or something. I think he is, isn't he? He is performing. He's performing this kind of role here. And I don't know, there's something about his kind of clip delivery.

[00:25:32] It made it believable that you could think he was this big scary gang leader. Like he carried it with this kind of authority. But really he's kind of a poser too or he's going on. Yeah. It's almost an Ezekiel situation, I think. Yeah.

[00:25:46] I mean, when he says, I'm going to chop up your boy, I'm going to feed him to my dogs They're the evilest, nastiest man-eating bitches you ever saw. I picked them up from Satan at a yard sale.

[00:25:53] I would almost be hard pressed not to start cracking up at that dialogue. Like, oh really? I told you how it has to be. Are you woefully deaf? I'd be like, woefully deaf? Woefully deaf.

[00:26:05] I think it's a funny interaction as well because it's about the breaking down of that… I don't know how to describe it better than police and civilian boundaries. We're starting to see it with Daryl a bit.

[00:26:19] Like, you know, episode three last week we saw Daryl getting, you know, choke-hold by Choke held? Choke held? Choke holded? By Choke helded by Shane and Rick. And there was still this sense that Rick is carrying that authority with him, but he's

[00:26:35] being forced to see people who he would usually view one way in a very different way. And I enjoy that. Rick the cop wouldn't make a deal with a gang leader, but he's starting to see everyone as people. There's a shift. It's like, oh we're all fucked.

[00:26:52] And he's like, you are a strong leader protecting these people. Now I respect you. Here's some guns. Like that was a big shift in the moment. That was really cool to watch.

[00:27:01] I think he even has a line about, you know, they're all looking to me and I can't do anything and Rick sees himself in that. He's like, oh yeah, I don't know what I'm doing either. Suddenly they're like the same pretty much.

[00:27:14] And I love that because I think that's why Rick and Daryl go on to have such meaningful relationship is that shift, that change. Yeah, that's really interesting. You know, you see a little bit of that in this episode as well. Daryl goes with him. Doesn't have to.

[00:27:28] But they do work together. They share a couple of glances. They're starting to. I'm not going to say it now, but you know, this was characters being treated poorly based on lack of deeper knowledge. Part one and part three is about Daryl. So I got some thoughts.

[00:27:45] But what's your next? Yeah. OK, for me, you've kind of hit on it was the Vatosh reveal. I'm a sucker for. I'm a sucker for when something kind of comes in and throws a very tense situation just completely

[00:28:02] left field and that the emergence of this like tiny little abuela coming in being like fine. They're all just like, go back to your room. She's like, oh, and this moment of just, I don't know, sweet humanity and it all.

[00:28:19] And she views Rick as a cop and she's like, don't arrest my boy. He's done wrong, but he'll do better. And she's still in that frame of mind of times. And the way it just stumps them all.

[00:28:32] And there's something so sweet about her, like taking his hand and like taking to see where the where the Asian boy is. And I don't know. I just I love the way that kind of played out.

[00:28:42] I think thinking about what we've spoken about so far on this episode, I wonder if it was easier to enjoy it because this time we know that the cool zombie thing is coming at the

[00:28:51] end and it doesn't feel like such a weird kind of waste of an episode. Yeah. I mean, you know, I just loved it. I love that whole reveal. I thought there were some really cracking lines in it.

[00:29:04] And I think that one about the dogs being from Satan's yard, sailman seeing them. And I think also just the the moment of Glenn like being really absorbed in this guy having an asthma attack and everyone turns up and Rick's like, what is this?

[00:29:16] Meaning like the place and Glenn's like, oh, you know, Mr. Sons was having an asthma attack. And they're sort of like, no, you do this like we thought you were going to be thrown off the roof. And he's like, oh, yeah, no, it's fine.

[00:29:28] I think we enjoyed it more to maybe because, well, on my own part, I've just gotten more analytical. And so I discover more little things. And there was more to find in this episode than I thought.

[00:29:43] It's sad as well, because there is a deleted scene from season two, episode one, where you realize that the place gets overrun in the next couple of days. I'm glad they didn't do that. No, I'm glad they didn't.

[00:29:54] I'm glad they picked something from season one over, but knowing it in my head. I don't consider it canon. No, you think the Vatos are still there? Probably not, but we don't know. Abuela is the Negan of Atlanta. Yeah, she's in charge. She's got a leather jacket.

[00:30:13] And a bat. I would be in her gag. Oh, by the way, Morales going about the place knocking people up with a baseball bat during the zombie attack. Yeah, well, maybe he was a savior. There's a lot of bats in The Walking Dead at this point.

[00:30:30] I don't think issue 100 where Glenn meets his fate with Negan had even come up. But after that, there were more like the bat in the season four finale or was the season five. Five premiere. Yeah.

[00:30:46] Or the trough, you know, they were just teasing about Negan a lot of time because Glenn was one of the ones hanging over. Because this absolutely nobody in that writer's room was going Morales is going to be a savior

[00:30:55] one day, but I just think it's funny to look back and see him. Kirkman got the idea. Maybe he was like, oh, Morales. Yeah, for me, the Vatos, I thought that was great. The reveal and the denouement of that I thought was lovely.

[00:31:09] And Rick, just the frustration of can we have a word with the kind of realization of what's going on and the enormity of it is quite touching. Yeah. And I just love the way that the whole vibe between the two of them shifted.

[00:31:22] It wasn't like Guillermo was like, no asshole, we're about to kill each other. He's like, yeah, right. As soon as you can't get it back after a boiler, you can't get it back. You're like, no, we need more abuelos come up and save conflicts. All right.

[00:31:39] Why don't you do another one? All right. For me. Well, it's another small one then. I guess is the some lines that I thought were good, funny and sort of looks that character shared. I very much enjoyed it. Nobody can kill Merle, but Merle.

[00:32:01] And because that's almost accurate, actually, I think that is pretty true. True. Yeah. The party is not saying is and there's a high likelihood he will do that. Yes, absolutely. Even I think it's a bad idea. And I don't like you much, Glenn to Darryl to Glenn.

[00:32:17] I was like, yeah, that's that's Darryl's honesty. That's how Darryl's nice. Yeah. At this point, he shows his love. And to be fair, Darryl is absolutely raging when they take Glenn. I was like, oh, I thought you didn't like him that much. He loves Glenn.

[00:32:31] And I'm like, oh, because. Well, he's a little inconsistent, but he's like very impressed when Glenn's coming with strategy, you know. Oh, what did you do before this? I was a pizza delivery boy. Yeah, super.

[00:32:47] That was next on my list of lines is that pizza because Rick and Darryl share a look there of like, OK, fair enough. But also before that, when he's saying you're going to come with me, you know, and you guys

[00:32:57] are spread out and cover us and Darryl's like, why me? And he goes, oh, because you're crossbows quieter or whatever. And I think Darryl feels in this moment, oh, he's he wants me with him. That that means he respects me, you know.

[00:33:12] So I think Darryl's respect level for Glenn went up a few notches in this episode as much as he's a racist. I don't even if he expressed it in a horribly racist way. Yeah. What do you say?

[00:33:27] Well, not horribly racist, but he's like, you got balls for a Chinaman. Yeah, I'm Korean, but I love that line from Glenn. Like, I'm Korean before he goes and does something amazing. And he's saying like, you got balls. That's that's a compliment.

[00:33:38] But for a Chinaman is an insult on two levels. One, because he's not even Chinese. And two, your insult. You're saying Chinese people don't have guts or whatever. You're also. Yeah. Yeah. But it's it's coming from a place of good job, bro.

[00:33:52] Like, you know, that's that's what he means by it. Let me just say while we're talking about this. Then later in season three, when Merle's back and he says something about the I almost killed the Chinaman. And Daryl says he's Korean. That's a good callback.

[00:34:09] I had Melody Beatty, the not Melody Beatty, Nicole Beatty, who's Melody Beatty's daughter, by the way, as she was writer of that episode. And she came on the podcast and I was like, that was a great callback. And she goes, oh, yeah, I forgot he said that.

[00:34:23] So it maybe was subconscious thing on their part. But I love it. It really works. It really works. I enjoyed wouldn't name my dog Merle. I thought that was a really good just.

[00:34:36] On gas line, my dog name is that there's a nice moment where someone I think one of the Vatos asks Rick who Darrell is and he's like and Rick says one of our group more or less. And I'm like, oh, he's including Darrell in the group.

[00:34:54] There's still a bit of more or less like. Yeah. I'm like bit of a jab. In my jab, bit of a jab. Yeah. I'm going to have to say that part. Other lines, obviously, the mausoleum of all hope and desire was really stand out.

[00:35:09] And of course, that final line, I remember my dream now. Why I dug the holes. Oh, creepy. It's a great line. And as I was watching it this time, I'm like, there's people still screaming because their loved ones died. And you're like, hey, I remember now. No. Okay.

[00:35:27] Oh, yeah. You were in my dream. You know, the silver lining, the graves are already dug. So we got that going for us. Go Jim. Like maybe you want to hold off on that and let people process. Awful.

[00:35:44] But they needed to include it at the end of the episode. And also, yeah, all of Jim's kind of pretentious like something I dreamt last night. I thought was very interesting. I guess he had heat. He was delirious from his heat stroke. I do find it hilarious that.

[00:36:00] Well, I'll say a couple of things. Actually, no, there's another one my point. So I'll hold it back. I'll hold it back and pass it back. Okay. Yeah. Well, maybe you'll get because I'm going to talk about Jim here. Oh, amazing. Yeah. Okay, cool. Let's do it.

[00:36:12] Let's talk Jim. Characters being treated poorly based on lack of deeper knowledge. Part two, Jim. I think the Jim story feels pretty oppressive. I did back then, too. I looked at my notes. He's digging holes in it. It is weird. Dale's watching from the top of the RV.

[00:36:32] He seems a little nosy. In hindsight, he rats Jim out to everyone. I guess that's fair. It's concerning behavior. And then it was really funny with everyone gathered around with worried looks on their faces as he frantically digs. But he's like, what do you want?

[00:36:47] And Shane's like, we're all just a little concerned. That's all. Morales says, Dale says you've been out here for hours. So. So why are you digging? Are you heading to China, Jim? It's pretty funny. Jim says, I'm not hurting anyone and just leave me alone.

[00:37:02] And I'm part of me is like, yeah, just. Just leave him alone. Like, okay, it's weird, but he's not hurting anyone. And Darrell gets up in his face and uses that soft voice. That's as if Jim has a choice. And then he ends up tied up.

[00:37:18] That's how police deescalate. They pretend everything's OK, and then they have you in cuffs. Not that I know that from firsthand experience, but just from what I what I've heard. So Shane ends up tackling him and cuffing him. And it just felt humiliating.

[00:37:34] You know, he's not hurting him, but he's taking away his freedom. And. Then he talks about what happened to his family, which is really powerful and sad, especially I like that. Use the word the dead.

[00:37:45] He says the only reason I got away was because the dead were too busy eating my family. If he had said walkers or geeks, it wouldn't have been as powerful. And then he's tied to this tree and. The kids are doing homework. He said. Why the fuck? Yeah.

[00:38:01] If you really did scare these kids, should they be sitting there coloring? No, it's like Laura's like, I'm just going to say you're scaring my son and you're scaring Carol's daughter.

[00:38:09] And then they're like, so we're going to set up two feet away from you and color in while you're doing your homework. So two feet away from you and color in while you're tied to a tree. That's cool for everyone in this situation.

[00:38:18] Like, oh, my God, it's so fucked. They needed Jim to talk to them, I guess. I mean, he's he's just really fixated on what happened to his family. Totally understandably. And he's like, he tells Carol later, keep Carl close to you, which she does during the zombie attack.

[00:38:33] So but it was weird. Laurie, sorry. It was weird. I yeah. Jim in the graves.

[00:38:41] I read it a little differently, but I'm kind of coming around to your POV because I was like, oh, Shane is like weirdly nice to him compared to how he was with Ed, which I mean, it's understandable because Ed's a piece of shit and Jim is just going through some stuff.

[00:38:55] Troubled. Yeah. But I think there is I think this is another example of where like season end of season two onwards. This wouldn't happen. Jim would just be left to do whatever the hell he wants. But there's still the semblance of like public order. Yeah.

[00:39:10] Things normal and the police have to step in. And I'm always quite uncomfortable with policing and mental health and people who perhaps don't need policing. They need help in other ways. And this is definitely one of those situations. I don't know. He wasn't harming anyone. Yeah, he wasn't.

[00:39:26] He wasn't. And I mean, maybe there's a case for it. I think it's a lot what you're saying. It's so new. This whole situation that they're wanting to keep things normal and it just is unsettling.

[00:39:39] But it's like maybe you should say, Jim, can you go a little further out to that or something where the kids can't go dig elsewhere? Please. It seemed extreme to me. It's like, what the fuck, dude? Did what do you think?

[00:39:54] Do you do you think there's a case? I think there's an extreme reaction. I think there's a case for like, I think when you're in a situation where everyone is tense and there's a lot on the line.

[00:40:06] There's a case for keeping the mood of the group stable, but he wasn't hurt. No one was in danger. It was at best unsettling, but a lot of other things are unsettling.

[00:40:19] And I don't know. I mean, until Shane beat him up, everyone was kind of happy to turn a blind eye to what Ed was doing to an extent. So I don't know. I think there is hypocrisy there. And I think, yeah.

[00:40:30] I mean, he was off to the side. He wasn't hurting anyone, as he said. And I think it was worrying enough that someone should have just sat there and tried to talk to him. Yeah. I don't think Dale needed to involve everyone.

[00:40:43] But I think Dale can be a busybody. I think we see this again, again and again in seasons one and two. He can be a bit of a busybody. I resisted that when listeners were saying it who hadn't read the comic.

[00:40:52] But now that I'm farther away from the comic, I agree. He's a busybody. He's nosy. There's a little bit of like, oh, this man's doing this thing. He's always watching, standing up on his RV, watching everyone and passing down his judgment.

[00:41:07] With his absolutely fantastic eyebrows. I mean, if I had those eyebrows, I would judge everyone. You could really just impart your feelings to people and dig into their soul with one little arch. But yeah, I feel Jim is hard done by, especially given when he reveals what happened.

[00:41:24] It's not like he's, I don't know. There's never an excuse to treat someone who's mentally unwell like that. But if there's not a danger to life or limb or anyone there, then there's really no reason to.

[00:41:35] The best I can say for it is if he was, they said it was 100 degrees. And if he really is having a heat stroke and he's delirious, and then he got tied to that tree and got some water poured on his head. Maybe that really helped a lot.

[00:41:47] I think there is that. I mean, he was engaging in an act of self harm to an extent because he was refusing water and he was out in the boiling heat.

[00:41:55] But also he's a man and has agency. Not he's a man rather than a woman. Just like he's a person who has agency. It's a tough one. Justice for Jim. Maybe just splash some water on him. Yeah, hose him from afar. Hose him down.

[00:42:12] That RV got a hose. We're talking about a hose for the RV. Yeah, exactly. Just spray him from a distance. It's easy. Super soaker. Alright, what's next? Well, I had Jim as well. I had Jim in the grave slash…

[00:42:27] Although I did have a little bit about the massacre. Just that it was a very satisfying payoff for those of us who were waiting for some zombie action. The zombies seemed faster than they maybe are in later seasons.

[00:42:41] Obviously seeing Ed get eaten was hugely cathartic for everyone involved. And it really thinned the herd in terms of there are quite a few red shirts in the first three episodes and now we're kind of down to the core group.

[00:42:55] Yeah, I think… I don't know how many people died but more than just Ed and Amy. It was like at least four or five. Just count the graves. Yeah, maybe. That would be Woo Woo if he got the exact right number.

[00:43:10] Yeah, it would actually be nice. Like I got nine. Knew it. See everybody? Isn't that cool? I loved how frantic it was and just the confusion and chaos of it. I thought it was brilliant.

[00:43:22] Thought it was sensible that they all kind of clumped together as a group and were moving as a sort of unit up towards the RV. I thought Morales was badass. I like that actor a lot. I'm sad that he is about to kind of disappear.

[00:43:37] And he always was like lobbying to come back on the show and then they finally brought him back and killed him off in the same episode. That was a very strange decision. I thought maybe we'll even get a little flashback. Nope, none of that. None of that.

[00:43:51] If there was a Tales of the Walking Dead again I'd love to see one about how he ended up where he ended up. And that's me. That's me about the massacre. How about you?

[00:44:01] I mean, yeah, I'll talk about that a little bit before I do my next point. Yeah, the Zed's rustling at Ed's tent and he opens it like, I told you to leave me alone. Oh crap. Amazing. And then we see one bite into Amy's arm again. Greg Nicotero.

[00:44:19] Yes, Nicotero bit her. I did have a moment of like, hang on, they could have just amped you. And then I was like, oh no, neck.

[00:44:26] Yeah, neck too. And she gave a great horror movie scream and then everyone starts panicking and then they focus in on this creepy ass toothy Zed. It was so creepy. It was great. Very creepy.

[00:44:45] And then just Morales with his bat and all this panic and Shane with his loud shotgun yelling, get to the RV. And I never had this thought before, but I'm like, this could be Glenn's fault really. Blaring that siren.

[00:45:00] It crossed my mind as well. I was like, maybe it was Glenn's fault. Maybe he deserved what he... No. Oh, there's a hot take. I do mean it. I love that. And then Rick and crew arrive and start shooting shit out. What a scene to come home to.

[00:45:20] Oh, absolute shittens man. Carl crying and scared running to his dad. What a great performance there. God, it looked like he was really... did they terrorize little Chandler Riggs? Like we're going to kill you right now if you don't get to Andrew Lincoln.

[00:45:34] We're gonna shoot you in the face Chandler. In the face Chandler.

[00:45:38] Andrew with Amy mentioned. And yeah, as first a zombie attack in the show, we've already spent more time with these characters than in any zombie movie because we're several hours in. So felt probably more devastating than most zombie attacks we've ever seen. And that's how Walking Dead is different than a zombie movie because it's about the characters.

[00:46:01] Yeah, we'll have those next. Yeah. So, all right, let's see characters being treated poorly based on lack of deeper knowledge. Part three, Darryl. So he does come off hotheaded and primed for violence and ready to shoot friends or, you know, characters we know are good guys.

[00:46:20] Like he's getting emotional and worked up looking at Merle's severed hand and points the crossbow at T-Dog. And T-Dog, by the way, I don't think he just kind of stood there like, okay, he's out of guilt maybe. But then Rick had the gun point blank to his head threatening him, which was shocking to see. And then Darryl adapts so quickly. He's crying and just shifts gears and like asked T-Dog for a rag like, okay, I'm letting that go.

[00:46:50] I am torn about whether that was racist or not, because he asks T-Dog, you don't have a doerag or something. Oh, it's like gang things. Well, he did have it so it's not. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I don't know. I didn't think about that.

[00:47:07] No, just because it's so associated with black history and black culture. But like you said he did have one. But yeah, I wasn't sure. I was like, I am bowing out of commenting on this as a white woman. But I did wonder if that was treading the line of being a bit offensive at that point.

[00:47:29] So, I mean, I don't condone any racism, but if it was racist, then I think it's Darryl's way of being like, well, I was just going to kill you. But now I'm just going to jab at you a little bit.

[00:47:41] Yeah, I'm just gonna insult you instead, basically. Which is still not great. But he does that with Glenn too later. You know, you're pretty ballsy for a Chinaman and he grows throughout the series.

[00:47:53] So now we see him tracking Merle's blood. I mean, he was such a great tracker throughout the series, but right from the start he's realizing Merle must have used a turning kit. He's just following the trail and he stuffs Merle's hand in Glenn's backpack. And it felt like Glenn's like, God, why do I always have to deal with these people's shit?

[00:48:17] Yep. Yep. Putting the hand in his bag. So gross.

[00:48:22] And yet he's like, told you he was tough. Nobody can kill Merle. But Merle says, don't take that on faith. He's lost a lot of blood. He's kind of a downer. And they're going and they track and find Zeds that Merle killed. And this lit stove with what I looked up, it's an iron steak weight, crusted with skin.

[00:48:43] And nobody turns the gas off. Oh, no way. Really? No one put that off. Turn it off.

[00:48:51] The air was like, typical Merle leaving the gas on. I'm like, yeah, none of these guys turn it off either though. I think it's just a wee camping stove so it's probably fine. But I was a bit like rude and also dangerous.

[00:49:02] This whole time Darryl's proud. Like, yes, we came here to look for him. He's so proud of his brother.

[00:49:07] He's alive. Feed him a hammer. He's so tough. Feed him a hammer. He'll crap out nails. But T-Dog and Rick are like, he's probably dead. He could bleed out. A bunch of zombies could have eaten him. And Darryl's like, fuck you. You know, he's getting upset. Like, I'm going to go find him. And I don't blame him. It's like, hey, we came to find him. And now we're seeing signs that he's alive, not dead.

[00:49:31] And maybe he's dead, but we're here to look. And Rick kept coming up with reasons why he could be dead. And then he gets mad and Rick says, puts a hand on Darryl's chest. And he says, we can check a few blocks, but only if we keep a level head. I'm like, you're the one who keeps saying his brother's probably dead and you expect him not to feel something about that? Like, I'm much more on Darryl's side this time through.

[00:49:56] Racism aside. Yeah, racism aside. I'm like, Darryl's completely in the right here. Like, they did a fucked up thing. He's looking for his brother and like one bit of family he's got left and y'all are being quite patronizing to him.

[00:50:12] And I think and that's how I felt towards him to a degree. I'm sure I understood, hey, he lost his brother. That's hard. But I had a more of a negative feeling towards him than I do now. I don't have that at all.

[00:50:26] And like when they're saying, like, why would he go out there? And he's like, well, he thought you'd left him behind you dingbats. And I'm like, yeah.

[00:50:33] What's he supposed to do? Sit here and wait for you to come back? And Rick says only if we keep a level head. I'm like, he was methodically tracking him. He was calm. And Rick is arrogant and needs to take a little step back.

[00:50:48] Especially when you're sitting there, Rick sitting there saying over and over, he's probably dead after he's the one who locked him on the roof. Honestly.

[00:50:56] But, you know, anyway, so I was gonna say Merle, Merle's Merle. So with the Vatos, then as you mentioned, Rick is derogatory towards Darryl when Guillermo says, who's that dude to you? Anyway, you don't look related. And Rick says he's one of our group more or less. I'm sure you have a few like him.

[00:51:14] And it's I guess Rick saying he's a hothead, you know, but it's so derogatory. And I guess he's I guess he understands that Guillermo sees that Darryl's on a hair trigger. So he wants to sort of deescalate it a little bit. But it just sounded really insulting.

[00:51:34] Given what we know of Darryl now, especially. Because the way he's treating Darryl and after I mean, it's a very particular situation where you just lost your brother at the hands of these guys. And Darryl wasn't there. So he didn't see he didn't get to experience what Merle was doing that. I don't I know it's early Darryl. And that's why he's more on a hair trigger because he's grown and calmed since then.

[00:51:58] But also, it's this particular situation of just having lost your brother. And these people who kind of did it are being dicks to you.

[00:52:07] I don't think that Rick wanted Merle to die. But I would imagine that going to the roof and finding not only is Merle not dead, he's not there is suddenly a whole other bag of problems for Rick because he's like, well, fuck, this guy's gonna be pissed off. And that's what you see. I'd forgotten at the end when they see the van. A that Merle had driven off with it and B that the reason they're rushing back to the camp is because they think Merle's going back there to fuck everyone up.

[00:52:34] But as far as I know, we actually don't know if Merle drove off with the van. We don't know who could have been any random survivor. As far as I know, listeners, if I'm wrong about that, let me know.

[00:52:47] I like the idea it's Merle. But yeah, you're right. We don't know that. But it's because he didn't go back to the camp. It is not a dumb supposition for Rick to have come up with that would be what happened.

[00:52:57] It was a reason for Darryl to not to stop looking and go back to the camp. Because he does really stop after this episode. I noticed that when I was watching the next two. I'm like, oh, um, yes.

[00:53:08] I just made in the moment. But you're right. Yeah. Like after even after because you'd think he might go, oh, wait, Merle didn't come back to the camp. So maybe he didn't take the van. So maybe we should go back to the city and look for more. But he doesn't.

[00:53:20] Well, think about how much he looks for Rick and season. I know. Yep. All right. Got any more?

[00:53:27] I just got some wee notes. And then I've got my timeline and deep dive. But my wee notes are Darryl being weirdly proud of Merle. We've mentioned that Rick's hat. Rick's hat. Glenn grabs it. Rick grabs it. The hat is established. Glenn and Rick even have a little joke about it later when Glenn says, I didn't know the reason you wanted to come back was just to get the hat.

[00:53:49] I'm going to call bullshit that Carl and Sophia would be that happy about going to clean fish. When Shane's like, who wants to come and help you clean fish? And they're both like, yeah. And I'm like, no one wants to clean fish kids. That's really weird. But you know, it's the zombie apocalypse. Maybe they are interested in it.

[00:54:09] They're so fucking bored. This is the highlight of their day. Again, there is recognition that Rick owes everything to Glenn. And I like that because it is a reminder that Glenn is super important in this storyline and universe. And yeah, I enjoyed that. And I enjoyed seeing him make these plans. I thought there was a kind of lovely irony of him.

[00:54:35] I don't think irony is the right word here. Just a lovely kind of juxtaposition of him using office supplies to do this plan because office supplies look so anachronistic. Like no one works in an office anymore. It's like little post-it notes, staples, that kind of thing. And he uses it on that map of how he wants the plan to go down.

[00:54:54] I thought that was kind of funny. The things that don't matter as much in the zombie apocalypse, but they're using them, the environmental things that they have around them. And that is the end of my notes apart from the usual two bits that I have.

[00:55:06] Oh, yeah. And we had to do only on The Walking Dead, but let me do my notes. So I think it's worth noting because there's been some talk, I will say, you know, interesting conversation, I'll say about the roles of women and how they're written in the show and whether it's like a good deliberate arc or just sexism or maybe some combination in the middle there. But you've got Andrea and Amy fishing and bringing people in.

[00:55:36] Caught dinner.

[00:55:37] Morales is like, hey, my kids can eat because of you. So that's notable, I would say. Jim talking about Rick to Shane, one of the kids actually, that man, he's tough as nails. I don't know him well, but I can see it in him. Am I right? And Shane says, oh, yeah. And I'm like, yep, we learn as time goes on even more than we thought at this time, I would say.

[00:56:02] Jim said to Shane, if I don't stop digging, then what? Then you're going to beat my face in like Ed Pelletier, aren't you? Which made me realize Pelletier is Carol's married name and she never went back to her maiden name because we don't even know what it is. I looked it up.

[00:56:19] No, we don't. It's weird, right? Yeah, that is really strange. Go back to your maiden name, Carol. Some women do. You don't need to keep it for the sake of your daughter.

[00:56:28] Yeah, some women do though. I mean, burn, sick burn. But some women do like my mom has her married name and she's been divorced for a long time.

[00:56:36] Yeah, I don't know. Some people are like it's almost like a connection to my kid or whatever. But yeah, it's strange. I personally wouldn't change my name. So I don't know. I don't really get it.

[00:56:47] Yeah, Jenny didn't and I was fully supportive of that. I think it would have been weirded out if she did. I love T-Dog in Sniper's position watching this standoff with the Vatos and Rick's group. And Rick points out, look, we got this guy up there. But T-Dog's up there going, oh man, just make the trade like he would do this.

[00:57:10] Come on. And then last, Jim's talking about the futility of promises he made to his family. You know, I made him all kinds of promises. Look what happened. And then in another scene, he's like telling Carl and Sophia, oh, Rick's gonna be back. Don't you worry. I'm like, you're just making another promise. What? There's a. What are you doing?

[00:57:32] He's canonically psychic. He's psychic. That's right. He was right. He can see the future. Yeah. OK. Let's say that. Yeah. Too bad he's dead. Too bad he's dead. Didn't see that coming. Couldn't see that. All right. How about trivia then we'll do only on The Walking Dead.

[00:57:50] All right. So trivia wise, not much on IMDb this week. We've mentioned pretty much all of them. And first episode with humans being eaten by walkers. Nicotero bit Amy. There was one of those IMDb trivia facts that isn't really a trivia fact. It's just like someone just wrote it was the first very emotional death on the show. And this started the tradition of very emotional deaths. And I was like, I don't think that's a fact.

[00:58:15] Interestingly, there was a fact that we see a lot of the Winnebago in the show. And at the time it was the second day MC show to have a Winnebago featured in that along with Breaking Bad. Yeah. And Breaking Bad also had one of those red Dodge Chargers that Glenn was driving.

[00:58:37] Waltz bought one for his son with his drug money. And in season two, is there not an intimation that Merle was buying drugs from Jesse Pinkton? Yeah, because there's some blue meth that they find. I like that. Do you want me to blow your mind with the apocalypse timeline?

[00:58:57] Yeah, let's hear it. Okay, we're on day 30 minutes since the beginning. It's been 30 minutes, day 61. But in somewhere else in the world at this point, Jake Otto is bit on his ranch. And the episode This Land Is Your Land from Fear of the Walking Dead is playing out.

[00:59:18] Oh, wow. I mean, that's sounds crazy, because that's three seasons in and we're only four episodes in but it makes sense because they skipped ahead a month in The Walking Dead and Fear in part was more about the beginning of the apocalypse and we skip nine days. But that is

[00:59:34] running out of oxygen in a pantry somewhere. And I was gonna say Texas, but they're not in Texas. It's still in California, isn't it? The auto ranch? So yeah. Yeah. Or New Mexico. Yeah, I think it might be. Yeah. Is it the border? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Anyway, that's what's happening elsewhere in the apocalypse, which I thought was cool. And I think I had a quick look at listener feedback. I think someone's written in about it as well.

[01:00:00] So particularly given that fear ended this week. I thought that was interesting. Yeah, fear ended. So sad. All right. Sorry, I just I just dissociated from my body there. Yeah.

[01:00:16] Only on The Walking Dead. Would you see a heartfelt moment between two sisters and think one of them is about to die? Only on The Walking Dead. Would you hand someone in your group a severed hand to keep in their backpack for later?

[01:00:41] Obvious threat to untold numbers of citizens. People get up and are they slow moving? Yeah, they're dead. They're all messed up. This is a walking dead cast news update. So first fear The Walking Dead is over. There we play celebrate by Casey and the Sunshine Band or whoever.

[01:01:15] That's a different one. I have not yet seen the final two episodes, but well, we stopped covering that show on the podcast halfway through season seven. If you didn't notice, I think that's when.

[01:01:29] But we have been doing no holds barred roundtable rants for every episode since as part of my Patreon. If you want to hear any of those, they're all available if you pledge at least two dollars a month at Patreon dot com slash Jason Gabassi.

[01:01:43] They're just basically us going through all the faults. But for these last two episodes, we'll be doing the same style rant, which is low prep or organization, probably no editing and releasing it on the podcast for anyone to hear. So that should be out very soon if not, if it's not already in your feed. So stay tuned for that.

[01:02:04] Who will be appearing on that one, Jason? That'll be me and you and we might have a special guest, but I'm going to leave that to be a surprise. Is it Kim Dickens? That would be amazing. It's Coleman Domingo. That fucking show. Let me tell you.

[01:02:24] That would be incredible. I don't want to ramp up anybody's hopes too high, but we've had a lot of Zed heads rotate in for that. So it'll be fun. Just tell me it's not Duncan. It's not Duncan. I think you'll like who it is. Okay.

[01:02:45] Okay, next Variety reports that The Walking Dead, The Ones Who Live, the Rick and Michonne spin off is going to be premiering on February 25th. So we knew February, we didn't know the exact date. So pretty much right at the end there.

[01:03:00] I'm so I just think it's, I just hope it's not horrible. Yeah, I know. I'm using the excitement to cover the deep fear.

[01:03:11] The description says The Walking Dead, The Ones Who Live presents an epic love story of two characters changed by a changed world kept apart by distance by an unstoppable power by the ghosts of who they were.

[01:03:22] Rick and Michonne are thrown into another world built on a war against the dead and ultimately a war against the living. Can they find each other and who they were in a place and situation unlike any they've ever known before? Are they enemies, lovers, victims, victors? Without each other? Are they even alive? Or will they find that they too are The Walking Dead? I mean, that sounds awful to me.

[01:03:46] Okay, I'm not gonna lie. I'm a bit more bummed out now I've read the description. I'm like, it just sounds like, I'm not saying it's a definite bad, but it doesn't. We'll see. We thought Daryl was going to be crap.

[01:03:59] No, I had hopes. I had a good feeling about it. Yeah. I mean, I'm not gonna bet you on that.

[01:04:06] I didn't think it was going to be as good as it was. But yeah, that's why I was like, yeah, we need to cover that for the Rick show. I'm less hopeful, but it's Rick. So we got to cover it. Definitely. It's Rick and it's Michonne man.

[01:04:20] And I hope I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. Please be wrong. Please be wrong. So next seriously.com interviewed Norm Maria, speaking to the Daryl show, and he talked about his thoughts on some of the cast on Eric Ebony, who's fellow.

[01:04:37] He said, Eric is a very interesting guy. He's super classy and he's fun. Eric brings this light to serious words. He's very animated. You watch him and you're like, wow. And then you see it on camera and he just lights up the camera. That seems totally on the nose to me for him.

[01:04:53] Very accurate. Yeah. On a Louis Peach. Yeah. Louis Peach, Sig Louise, who plays Laurent. He says this kid is a fucking pain in the ass.

[01:05:07] He says, when a child actor comes for an audition and their parents are there, they really put it on. I am an actor. I'm a thespian. Louis. He wasn't like that at all. He listened. I immediately wanted Louis. I Louis. I'm like, that's the kid.

[01:05:21] I believe it. I actually think he was great as an actor. I, he said he gave Louis a PlayStation so they could play together, but they couldn't figure out how to connect. So it didn't work out. I'm like, we just didn't want to play. What do you think about that?

[01:05:35] He's a kid. He knows how to connect on place. Yeah. On Clements poesy who plays Isabel, he said Clement, she was my first friend really on set. My first friend in my life ever.

[01:05:52] I'm in love. I'm getting a divorce in a scene where I'm taking a bath and she's talking to me and she's scrubbing me down and they kept pouring hot water in the bathtub. This is the first time I'm reading this and it was freezing cold. So I'm like in a bathtub with her and we had this serious dialogue, which is supposed to mean stuff and have subtext.

[01:06:10] And the whole time I'm in this dirty bath water, but she was very kind to me. That wasn't really about her. It was more about the bath on Melissa McBride who plays Carol. You know, Melissa and I have even friends since day one years ago we met, but our very first scene together. I liked her right off the bat.

[01:06:27] And if I like you, I kind of poke you a little bit. I hand her a pickaxe that she's got to put down her husband. And every time we did it, I kept taking the pickaxe and dipping it in more blood and guts, like making it more and more disgusting. Every take I'd hand it to her and she's like, uh, the last take it was just covered in blood. I can't say enough about Melissa. I love Melissa. Well, that's coming. I think next week. So that'll be.

[01:06:50] We'll have that in our head. And on Melissa being part of the Dell show, he says, Melissa was always part of the show. Always since day one before the first script, she was part of the show. She's an executive producer before she came here. I said, you don't understand. It's so good filming here. And she's like, why? I said, it's free. Everybody is artists. They all have an artistic eye and an appreciation for art and sound and filming and lighting and costume. You can do what you want.

[01:07:17] So she's coming to France then? I don't know. I mean, this could be just him. Um, cause she was supposed to be in season one, I think, you know, and they changed their plans, but I wouldn't be surprised. I hope she's going to France.

[01:07:34] Did he mention the wonderful Adam Nogaitis? Not that I saw it was just an eight minute interview. Jennifer McKinley. I'm so sorry. Sorry, Jennifer. I'll find something next time. Maybe they'd hated each other, which is kind of sexy, right? Yeah, absolutely. Enemies to lovers.

[01:07:50] The cameras weren't even rolling. They were just like chaining them up and they were fighting each other. All right. Now it's time for Lister Mone's Growns and Grunts.

[01:08:00] Randy Stevenson says, I wish after Rick said, let's go see Guillermo that the man who walked to the door was Guillermo from What We Do in the Shadows. That would have been awesome. I would love that. He was probably about 10 at this time, if not younger.

[01:08:18] Dabalino Bob Grippy says when the camp gets overrun, there's a shot of Morales swinging a baseball bat downward on a walker. Looks like you know who.

[01:08:28] Kirstie Keen says this episode was a real surprise. I'd forgotten just how good Bernthal is as Shane and the reveal of exactly what was going on with the titular Vratos was one of the best in the early seasons.

[01:08:40] Wendy says I love that it starts with a beautiful scene with Andrea and Amy fishing in the lake. We really see the Rick, Daryl and Glenn forming an alliance here.

[01:08:51] I know others didn't like the plot with the nursing home, but I really liked it. I'm sure they're all still there living happily ever after. Not according to the deleted scene.

[01:09:01] Best part of the episode is Ed getting eaten. I love the formation of the Carol we know now. Monica Maguire says Amy's death was so tragic. Never liked Andrea so I was about screaming at her to get up after sitting there all night.

[01:09:16] Never liked Carl slash Coral much either. Jason and Lucy, you like Carl better than Glenn?

[01:09:21] My favourites were Carol, Daryl and Glenn. I think Jason is right about Daryl being written different in later seasons, but then a funny thing how a zombie apocalypse can change a person. Also Carol too.

[01:09:31] She would have still been acting all wimpy and stuff and still getting beatings from Ed otherwise. Well, I'm loving the rewatch. Didn't start listening until it was Jason and Lucy so I'm loving your takes on the early shows.

[01:09:41] Thank you Monica. And for clarity, I don't like Carl more than Glenn. I find Carl's death harder because I think it's not in the comics and it feels more pointless.

[01:09:57] It happened because of behind the scenes stuff as far as we know, not because it was best for the story. Exactly. Exactly that. Which is why it bums me out because it was an important part of the show.

[01:10:08] Yeah. And I mean, especially having been a fan of the comic for the first, I don't know, 75% of the show. I was always, especially with Karen early on, I was like, because I know how she is. I was like, don't get too attached to anybody because this is a, it is as if a zombie movie was ongoing, which means people are going to die.

[01:10:29] And it could be anyone. I mean, they, I think it was this, yeah, this was pre game of thrones. Like we weren't used to seeing main characters get killed off so regularly, but I'm like, that's what this is. And Glenn, when he died in the comic that hit me really hard, but I was like, that's, I gotta taste my own medicine here. I got to remember that that's what this is.

[01:10:52] And so it was like, okay. And I'm going to remember that towards the end of the walking dead. I started to feel less like that. I'm like, okay, I'm done with that idea. I don't want anyone else to die. But I'm glad the walking dead was like that because it made you fear for all the characters who were still alive. You know, if the, if they all had plot armor, then you wouldn't.

[01:11:11] And with Carl is different because it just feels like it's about this dad and his son surviving through all of this. And so if I wanted anyone to have plot armor through the series, it would be Rick and Carl.

[01:11:25] Agree. Even though I like Glenn as a character better than Carl, as you said, Lucy. Yeah. But to me, I separate how I emotionally feel about a character versus what I think is best for the story. Try to do that. Anyway. All right. Alma Contreras says this episode ended up being quite a surprise.

[01:11:48] I always have liked this episode because of the twist. And I wondered whatever happened to the Vatos after our people left. I mean, the old folks died off, but how about the caretakers? The only thing I didn't ever like about this episode was the opening scene with Andrea and Amy talking about knots. I roll after so many times rewatching. I usually skip anything entry related because I just can't stand her character. But I guess this scene was needed to try and get some empathy for when Amy dies. I don't know about anyone else, but it just didn't work for me.

[01:12:14] I did like the camp getting overrun. This part still puts me on edge. Can't wait to hear y'all's rewatch thoughts. Kissy.

[01:12:22] Love it. Gloria Latere-Hernandz says, I enjoyed this one, but overall, I felt so bad for how ill prepared they were for walkers coming into camp. I always wanted to know why weren't the kids and their mothers inside Dale's motorhome just for their own safety to sleep? I wasn't sorry to see Ed go, quite enjoyed that part. I know it's early in the apocalypse, but people freezing in place as walkers attacked seemed unfortunate.

[01:12:46] Yes, they just woke up and were pretty shocked, but I guess they had to lose a bunch of people for them to move on. I did feel terrible about that.

[01:12:54] Wait, wait, wait. They didn't just woke up. I'm not sure Gloria rewatched recently because they're in the middle of this fish fry when it happens. They're all awake. The kids are not asleep because they're having dinner. But I still think they should have tried to be more prepared for a zombie attack somehow.

[01:13:10] I did wonder why nobody was on watch or if they were, why they were doing such a shite job. Or this tin can alarm system or something. I mean, they weren't used to zombies coming up there, but they should have thought maybe some might, you know.

[01:13:23] False sense of security, especially when they gave Glenn all that earache about the car. I'm like, well, if they're in that worried, put a few extra precautions in place.

[01:13:30] Gloria goes on to say, I did feel terribly bad for Jim. He clearly had a premonition in his dream. Poor guy. Andrea and Amy's fishing scene was very touching and sweet. Why do people hate Andrea so much? I always liked her. Maybe I was just attracted to her. Totally pissed me off how she got with the governor, but I'm getting ahead of myself. Good episode, but too short of a season. Take care guys and have a good Thanksgiving. Oh, thank you, Gloria.

[01:13:55] Thanks, Gloria. That's good. All right. Penny Lennox says the writing in season one is really uneven. The women are especially thinly written, but Shane, Shane is beautifully complex and layered.

[01:14:08] John Bernthal is an immense talent and really make Shane the most interesting character this whole season. One of the best moments in the in the episode is when Daryl throws Merle's hand at that kid.

[01:14:17] It's incredibly effective at striking fear and it reminds me of one of my favorite moments from six feet under with the foot. I always wanted Guillermo to return. He was good leader. He and Rick really understood each other. I think. Yeah, I agree. This situation was doomed, but I expect he would have survived.

[01:14:35] I so badly want not to hate Andrea. Women characters are often unfairly maligned and women should support women. I don't know why, but I can't bring myself to like her even when her sister is bleeding out. I can't generate any affection or sympathy for her. Amy, on the other hand, I liked PS. I'm participating in the John Bernthal head rub drinking game.

[01:14:55] He roll on season two. And he said, Yeah, that's the thing. You guys, you got to do it. Oh, we're gonna be drunk. I guess I agree that the women characters are a little more thinly written. Um, and that I don't know if I agree that Shane is the most complex, maybe. But, um, I think the men are more despicable or dumb. Like, Glenn's kind of an idiot driving the car in there.

[01:15:25] Dale's overbearing and moralistic. Darryl's ready to kill anyone at the drop of a hat. I mean, that's an exaggeration, but Shane's such an asshole. Merle's like a racist asshole. You know, a lot of Penny hit the nail on the head when she said they were thinly written.

[01:15:44] I was thinking about that for last episode with Lori, and she finds out that Shane lied to her about Rick being alive. And I almost feel like that's more about Lori than anybody else because she's the only one who knows.

[01:16:09] She's she slept with Shane, but Rick doesn't know it. And Shane is pining for her. You know, she's like the focal point. And she's with Rick in the tent, but doesn't tell him. And she has to decide what she wants to do now that her situation has changed. I would argue that she's at least as much of a prominent character in that episode as anyone else, if not the most prominent.

[01:16:32] I think prominent. Yeah, I don't know about well-written at this point. Complex. I guess we'll see. I'm warmer on Lori this rewatch than I was when I originally watched the show. So far.

[01:16:44] That's been good. Nathan Eshelman says, Hello, The Walking Dead cast of us. Just a quick note about last week. It was interesting to hear Merle shout at the sky that he wasn't going to beg because in season three, those were his last words to the governor as well. Right before he gets shot, he looks at the governor and says he's not going to beg.

[01:17:05] As for this week, I really appreciate the visuals of the opening scene with Andrea and Amy. There are very few scenes in the entire show that take place on the water. So to have a sister bonding moment on a little fishing boat was a very unique set piece for the show that they didn't really revisit.

[01:17:20] For anyone who's curious about the fate of the Vatos, there's a deleted scene from season two, episode one link in the show notes where the Atlanta group goes back to the Vatos building after leaving the CDC. But the place has been overrun. It's pretty interesting to watch. Daryl and Andrea have a snarky.

[01:17:36] Snarky? I don't know what I'm trying to say here Nathan. Sorry. Smurfy. Daryl and Andrea have a snarky back and forth. I suppose deleted scenes aren't technically canon, but it's the closest thing to closure we'll get. Thank you, Nathan.

[01:17:50] Yeah, that's good. Nathan always has the inside info. I'm thinking about it a little more. I mean, yeah, there is way more focus on the men and I think that might be one reason why. I mean, you're right. If you're going to focus on characters more, they're going to be the ones that get more character development. I did like this thing with Andrea and Amy at the beginning here, but yeah, I see where you come from.

[01:18:14] Uh, I think anyway, Doty Sheffield says, hi Jason and Lucy. I'm loving the rewatch of the walking dead. It made makes finishing fear just that much more painful by comparison. Your coverage is great. And I'm definitely planning to go back to the beginnings of the pod since I got a late start and didn't hear the early seasons. Thanks again, Jason for the warm reception at the Boston meetup. Yeah, it was super fun. There's there are a few listeners that showed up and Doty was great. I just rewatched Vatos. What a good episode to tell.

[01:18:44] I'd forgotten about this episode. So it was like watching it for the first time. It does such a great job of exposing Rachel's racial stereotypes. You're drawn into seeing the Latinos as violent gang members and killers and the reveal of who they really are is so different. And so believable.

[01:19:00] You talked in the last pod about Darrell's redneck racist thinking and what we're seeing here is one of his opportunities to see how wrong that thinking is. This is how racist ideas can be grown out of if someone is paying attention and open to learning. And I think Darrell has that quality. Racist thinking thrives in segregation and separation, spending all your time with people like you who share your attitudes about those people.

[01:19:26] Quote, an apocalypse can go a long way to throwing you together with people you would normally have nothing to do with. And Darrell is getting a new education. I could have written that. I didn't, but I love it.

[01:19:37] I love that Dodie, you hit the nail on the head. Yeah, that's great. I'm sorry I wasn't able to be in Boston and say hi in person. One day, one day. Danielle Dement-Yost, friend of the pod says right off the bat we have Andrea and Amy in the boat. I appreciate the sentiment of their conversation about their dad, but I hate the dialogue. It sounds so scripted. Obviously it is scripted, but it shouldn't sound like it.

[01:20:04] Anyway, it's a sweet interaction between the sisters with plenty of exposition. So we know a little about their upbringing and their parents are or were in Florida. And that they're valuable for catching food. Did you notice the look on Glenn's face when Darrell put Merle's hand in his backpack? Classic. Lucy, there's your answer about how Merle got off the roof. Different door. I wonder if that building ended up burning down seeing as they left the flame on.

[01:20:27] Danielle, we're just so in sync today. This first paragraph, honestly. She goes on to say, I don't remember if they ever touched on whether Merle did try to return to the camp like Darrell thought he would. I thought for a moment that maybe he led the walkers to the camp, but he wouldn't do that with Darrell there.

[01:20:43] I think we speculated on that. Or some fans did.

[01:21:13] The way Ed just stares at the walker and waits to be attacked is kind of funny. And there were more people in that camp than we were led to believe based on how many people got bitten that we'd never seen before. The whole piece about Jim having a dream that the attack was coming, which led him to dig the graves is an interesting storytelling device I don't think we ever saw again. It's sort of a supernatural future telling type scenario that seems misplaced in this story. All in all, this is a really solid episode. We get some good walker action and I really enjoy the vatos.

[01:21:41] And the scene of them is the scene of them returning to find their place has been overrun. Canon. I can't remember if that was a deleted scene, meaning it's not technically part of the story or if it was a separate release like the webisodes, in which case it would be canon. I prefer to think they were okay.

[01:21:56] All right. We got one call about this episode and then there's some more general comments. So the calls from Colin.

[01:22:27] Yeah, I've had to cauterize a few wounds in my in my day. I'm not the very, very staple for being prone to safety. But yeah, the worst part is isn't the pain. It's the smell that it'll make you gag. It'll make you puke.

[01:22:45] And it's hard for me to see Shane how he is after watching him as Frank Castle in the Punisher. He's just such a badass in that show. And then it's hard for me to see his actual soft side. But I know John Brentall. He's such a fucking stand up guy. Such a great guy. I listened to his podcast and yeah, he's a real one.

[01:23:08] The guy that Darryl shoots in the ass. He's literally Hector from every single movie that involves a character actor who is bald, has a mustache and it's Hispanic. He was in Bruce Almighty. He has a monkey go up his butt. And also he was in I believe the first Fast and Furious movie.

[01:23:32] And I feel like Tom Savini, who is also friends with Greg Nicotero. I feel like they wanted to model Jim after Hernandez from Day of the Dead from the 81 or 82 maybe 70, 85.

[01:23:46] But I feel like this show was a lot more racist back in 2010 than it is or obviously it isn't right now. But God damn things were a lot different in 2010. I was only 13. But yeah, hope to hear from you all on the next episode. I'm in here for the long run y'all. So have a good one.

[01:24:08] Cheers. What were you? Said Fast and Furious. I was like, I knew I recognized that dude. Yeah. I've only seen one of those movies. Number nine where they went to space. Oh my God. They're so great. That was enough for me.

[01:24:25] I love them. When you're in Scotland next summer, I will force you. No, I won't force you to watch them. We love them in this household. They are… There must be something I'm missing. If you like it then I'm missing something.

[01:24:35] I just find them… I just love them. Anyway, I have a lot of affection for them. Do you think if I gave it another chance I would get into it or is it just not my thing?

[01:24:46] I think if you watch them knowing that they're going to be silly as fuck, it's quite an enjoyable experience. I might try that then. Should I watch the first one or…?

[01:24:56] Oh, I mean the timeline is all over the shop. Yeah, you can start from the beginning. The beginning is probably the most close to being serious because they're just like stealing DVD players and it's normal. And then it levels up to…

[01:25:10] So should I go to a more absurd level first? Yeah.

[01:25:14] I don't know. I really don't love action movies, I've come to realize. I did back in the 80s big time but these days… I mean aside from Mad Max Fury Road which I think is the best. Have you seen that? I have. It was very good.

[01:25:27] So good. That's my favorite. Anyway. All right. Let's get into more general emails or messages.

[01:25:33] Michelle Jones says, I'm loving the rewatch. I have a confession though. I never watched past season 9. I'm hoping doing the rewatch will help me get in the mood to watch this again and finish the series. Fingers crossed.

[01:25:45] Well if we get there… Yeah. I think we will help you appreciate it because Lucy and I both liked the later seasons quite a lot. We did and I'm glad to see you coming back, Michelle. That's great.

[01:25:57] Tyler Schell says, last comment on the episode and more of a point slash suggestion. I know Lucy has been keeping track of the timeline. Thank you.

[01:26:05] I found it really interesting that as far as I know the dam in Fear season 3 exploded around this time which I think is crazy that we got through so much of Fear by this point in the main timeline. Tyler, not far off. Love that you guys are doing this. I'm not even rewatching at this point. Just listening along with you and still finding it great.

[01:26:22] Sweet. I know there's a lot of people doing that because they've already watched it so many times and I think that's awesome.

[01:26:28] And all my timeline information comes from the fandom wiki for Walking Dead and they've got a really detailed timetable there. So you can read ahead and spoil yourself if you want to. I won't judge you.

[01:26:39] Shanna Shanna says badass women of the apocalypse. Rosita Michonne, Carol, Maggie, Connie. Let's kick some ass. Season one. Laurie cowering behind Shane as walkers attack Shane. What do we do?

[01:26:52] The beginning of many frustrating character moments for Laurie. Her entire storyline revolves around men. That's a good point. Does she even have one good zombie kill throughout her arc?

[01:27:00] I want to be angry at her, but ultimately have to dig deep in my compassion. Well for a character who merely responded to the end of the world with the misogynistic narrative she has lived in.

[01:27:10] Good reminder to us all the power behind making sure our girls have the opportunity and support to shed gender constraints and be seen for more than their value as a wife or mother or side character. Yes.

[01:27:23] Unrelated take a look back at the first Walker Rick shoots coming out of the forest. The walkers blasted back by Rick shotgun in such a comical way. Clearly pulled backward on a road. It's too good. I'm going to go back and look for that. That's awesome. That's amazing.

[01:27:39] I don't feel judgmental about Laurie's actions at all in this. If you don't have any experience with violence, as we all know, men tend to be more violent in general and you just want to protect your son and you see these guys.

[01:27:55] And also I hate to even say this, but it is true. Men are stronger in general that they're with their bats bashing and their guns and you just want to protect your son. Then you get behind them and you go try to find shelter, which is what she did.

[01:28:10] And later on, because they're in the zombie apocalypse, the women and everyone who has to deal with zombies figures out how to fight and they do a fucking great job. Carol was so shitty at it at first, but she became a pro.

[01:28:24] And then when they find some communities that have been protected and the people didn't need to learn, a lot of them were shit at it. Men and women included. There are men who didn't know their way around the zombie at all. So it's not necessarily a gendered thing. I mean, here you've got two cops who know how to use guns. You got Darrell. He's a hunter. He knows how to use his crossbow. I mean, maybe it's the writers fault for not putting in any women who knew how to do stuff like this already. But Laurie is not that woman. You know, she's protecting her child.

[01:28:54] And she suggested keep your son close to you. So that's how I feel about that. Yeah, I don't know. It's just a bummer because she doesn't get much of a chance to grow because she's like immediately pregnant. So that's. Yeah.

[01:29:08] We're not at the stage of like Maggie who I assume kicked ass throughout most of her pregnancy. Yeah.

[01:29:15] Maggie, I remember this scene with Maggie at the prison shanking one of the Zeds because they had those helmets on through the like throat under the chin. And she was like, Oh, look what I did. And it felt like that was a revelation. And she kind of taught everyone else to do that.

[01:29:34] And at that point I was like, fuck. Yeah. Like, look at this. Everybody's stepping up now that they've had to. But right here at the beginning, I don't I don't know. It just seems like my I think my I don't know. You never know how you would react in a situation like that.

[01:29:50] But if I hadn't Jenny and the kids, I don't know. I think Jenny probably would be swinging her bat. You know? Yeah. I was gonna say Jason. All love to you man. But I would be hiding behind Jenny. Yeah. Like I got this.

[01:30:05] Like if you're at home at night and you hear a sound like anything, someone's broken in. Who's gonna go like you and Peter? Who's gonna go investigate that?

[01:30:17] Probably neither of us probably like, we'll probably just sit there and die. No, actually, no, that's not true. One of the cats will go down and try and get the robber to feed her. Yeah, I know it's difficult. Every relationship, I guess, is different in that way.

[01:30:34] But it is hard with Lori. I think I have more compassion for her than I used to. But I do think she doesn't do herself any favors at certain points. And at this stage, they're not. There's no, she never seems to want to get out of that rut of needing men to protect her. And I think that is dangerous.

[01:30:56] It is true. In this moment, though, when she has seemingly zero experience with the zombies, she's sticking close to her son and getting behind the people who are fighting. And I think that's a good, good, smart thing to do. Because if she had gone out and fought, then that would put Carl's potentially life more at risk if he didn't have anybody with her or if he tried to follow her out there amongst the zombies, you know?

[01:31:20] So that's why in this moment, I'm not that judgmental. But like I said, I'm not trying to always stand up for Andrea or Lori. If I think they're doing something that isn't cool, then I'm going to talk about that too. And there's plenty of it to come.

[01:31:35] So much, so much. We have Chantel from Australia. Hi, Jason and Lucy, it's Chantel here. I've been a lot. I am a longtime listener and thankfully found your podcast on my second watch of The Walking Dead back in 2020. Can't imagine why you were rewatching a show in 2020, Chantel, and have been hooked ever since. I am so excited you guys are doing a rewatch. I'm not watching along with you guys as weirdly The Walking Dead is my comfort show. And I won't say how many times I have particularly watched the first season.

[01:32:03] But my gosh, I love listening to you both recap and talk about different things I might have missed. But most of all, I love your perspective and deep dives into different topics. Thank you for everything you do at Podcastica. I'm sure I don't just speak for myself when I say that you guys were the friends in my ears when I needed it most in lockdown. And now I just love a good laugh, Lucy. Thank you. And interesting conversations about my fav shows. Can't wait to go along with this second ride with you all. Oh, pleasure to have you here, Chantel. Love that.

[01:32:32] So I mean, mostly what I get from this is that you don't like my laugh, but that's okay. Welcome to the frickin club, man.

[01:32:39] Chantel's new and she's been very engaged and making, you know, on the message or the Facebook group and all. It's a pleasure to have you there. You're hanging out.

[01:32:54] Matt in Sheffield, UK says, Hi, Jason and Lucy. First time I responded on here having listened to a range of your shows, anything Star Wars, Last of Us, Loki, and now the rewatch of The Walking Dead. Such a wide ranging range of engaging shows you cover. Well, that's awesome. I'm glad you're enjoying all that.

[01:33:12] I started listening to your season one episode one rewatch of The Walking Dead and stopped. Watch the episode. The whole series is on Disney plus in the UK, not Netflix. So someone asked. That's nice to know. Then went back to the podcast. Big scripe with AMC. Not you. Is that in the UK we still haven't seen any of the new series yet. The Daryl or Negan shows and no sign of them appearing here anytime soon, which is annoying. It is annoying.

[01:33:35] That's a bummer, especially since Daryl's in France. I know. I know, man. Brexit. So I'll say Brexit for episode one. I'd forgotten most of that early bit except the hospital. It felt so much more tense than some of the later series. Blowing the little girl away was great slash traumatic. Love seeing Lenny James as Morgan again. He was the main star from the fantastic apocalyptic show Jericho. Yeah, I remember that.

[01:34:05] That had a similar eerie end of the world feel as The Walking Dead. And he always gives it everything, notably in series one of the BBC series Line of Duty, a multi award winning show and Sky TV show. Save me well worth your time if you haven't seen them. I haven't seen him hearing Glenn's voice at the end was great. I wasn't sure if he was in episode one. So on to episode two and three later this week. I'm a little behind you. Thanks again for your great work. Thanks, Matt. That's awesome.

[01:34:33] All right. Two more calls. One from Tammy. Tammy.

[01:35:07] Loving the rewatch. It's like going back to a reunion and seeing all your old friends and all of that. It's just wonderful how smart we were, how dumb we were. We, of course, there are people there are family. And it's just great. I love it. Keep doing what you do. All right. Bye bye.

[01:35:30] Tammy. Tammy was in Boston, too, with with Dodie. I love your accent, Tammy, as well. So great. Reminds me of Daphne's. Yeah, that reminds me when I used to go to school there in Boston. All right. Final call. Owen from Leeds. Speaking of accents.

[01:36:16] If you will. And just really interesting to see Rick's leadership skills as everything is moving on within that episode. And they need to go out and try and find some kind of escape route to get away from those pesky walkers.

[01:36:32] With that, I think Merle was played brilliantly by old Mikey Rucker. I know a lot of it's less to be fair. It was offensive in 2009, 10 when it came out and it's offensive in 2023. Who cares? It's brilliant. And that's how some people are. And you know what? It's fine. And I don't have any problem with our trying to explain to Merle the world isn't what it was.

[01:36:59] White meat and dark meat alive and dead. Alive and kicking. And then finally, episode three. Tell it to the frogs. In the past watching that, I never really picked up on the fact that Shane had told her that Rick had died for some reason.

[01:37:14] I just, I guess I ignored that bit. So I've always thought that Laurie was a complete bitch. And I still believe it. And I can't stand the character in Prison Break either. I think she's somewhat in a right to be like, look, you can't be hanging around with Carl now, especially not after you just told me that dad was dead so that he could bed me.

[01:37:38] So yeah, understandable. Rick's moment when he sees Laurie and Carl and Carl and is when they run together. I tell you now, it's so emotional. And I remember the first time watching that. I was very much choked up and I still feel almost get goosebumps as they're running towards each other.

[01:37:57] And it's just a fabulous moment. And more than anything, Andy Lincoln's acting, he doesn't say a word. He's just stood there, sort of stumbles back and you can see it in his eyes. And I don't believe there's a better actor that I've ever known just for what he can do with his eyes, as you see throughout the series.

[01:38:16] So yeah, that's my little bit of a, I guess, feedback for episodes one to three. I'm enjoying going through it. I'm also doing a Watcher Game of Thrones at the minute. So it's kind of weird. And I don't want to get mixed up between the two. And I hope the Night King doesn't appear at any point. Well, there we go. Godspeed. Keep up the good work.

[01:38:36] Not till next episode, Owen. You're fine. There's a battle at Winterfell. I mean, the campsite. I mean, I'm confused.

[01:39:07] After the show was over, we started a rewatch and covered everyone one at a time. So anyway, you could poke around in there and see if you're interested. That's where we kind of first got to know you, Lucy, because you came on for several of those as guests.

[01:39:18] I did, yeah. Game of Thrones, man.

[01:39:26] All right. That is our show, episode 551. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Next episode is Walking Dead season one, episode five, Wildfire. And this one, I think more than any of the others, is a blank in my head. I don't remember. I remember Andrea looking at Amy as she turned into a zombie. And that's about it.

[01:39:48] Oh, you're in for a treat. There's some good stuff in this episode. Cool. And Jason, if you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at Podcastica.com.

[01:39:59] I might just do that in case you haven't noticed. I've been sick for a fucking month and it's pissing me off. The shadow of his former self. Peter's going to be on with us next time, right? He is. Yeah, he is.

[01:40:12] So I'm going to be a bit of a slacker and just be less prepared. I'll be on, but I won't. I'm going to try to restrain myself and not talk as much. Coughing in the background.

[01:40:23] So while you're at Podcastica.com, you can check out our other podcasts. There's two that just came out. Ben and Mark are covering new Apple TV plus Godzilla show. I think it's called Monarch Legacy of Monsters. And that's a joint venture between Podcastica and Ben's Next Level Media.

[01:40:42] So it's actually on his Wilhelm podcast, but it's also cross posted with House Podcastica podcast. And that's directed by Matt Shackman, who did WandaVision and is going to be doing the upcoming Fantastic Four movie.

[01:40:58] David and Veronica and I just recorded the first episode of my latest podcast. It's Squid Game cast. And that show. Have you seen it? I've never seen it.

[01:41:12] I was hyping it all up for people because I love that show. And I forgot how just how disturbing it felt to watch that first episode at the end.

[01:41:21] So fair warning. It's a very smart show. It's shocking in a way that I think is not gratuitous, but it's very fucking shocking. So if you don't like shocking shit, you probably shouldn't watch it. But we had a great podcast last night. That'll be out soon.

[01:41:40] Oh, I'm excited. This episode is made possible by Patreon supporters like Caitlin Brashear. Sounds like a movie star name. Who've pledged their support at patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi. So thank you to Caitlin.

[01:41:54] She'll get ad free episodes of this whole rewatch. And we have our Patreon exclusive podcast, The Zedhead Show, where this month, I think if I can get it together on time,

[01:42:05] we're going to have a few podcast hosts talking about our favorite podcasting moments and stuff like that. So that'll be something new. We do something new on there every month. Should be fun. Amazing. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. Don't get bit, Christy Fleming.