557: "Bloodletting" (TWD S2E2 Rewatch)

[00:00:00] As soon as they get back, you can perform this surgery. I'll certainly do my best. Okay. I mean, you've done this procedure before. Well, yes, in a sense. In a sense? Honey, we don't have the luxury of shopping for a surgeon. I understand that, but...

[00:00:25] I mean, you're a doctor, right? Yes, ma'am. Of course. A vet. A veteran. A combat medic. A veterinarian. And you've done this surgery before on what? Cows? Pigs? I have to be specific. Completely in over your head, aren't you? Ma'am, aren't we all? Hello, Zedheads.

[00:00:51] Welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Lucy. And this is the Cast of Us, episode 557. In this episode, we're covering The Walking Dead, season two, episode two, Bloodletting. In honor of this episode, we will be giving blood as we record. What is your blood type?

[00:01:48] Well, I don't know if I should say because the vampires might come after me because it's O negative. I'm the same! Oh, really? Yeah! Yep. We can give to everyone and we can only get from each other. So I guess we'd be good on a zombie apocalypse team.

[00:02:07] You can correct me about this, right? But I think in the series finale of The Walking Dead, we find out that Daryl is O negative as well because he gives to Judith. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He might have been O positive, but you might be right.

[00:02:21] I sat for like a lot of this episode thinking, stupid Daryl, if he turned up, he could have given blood too. But then I realized he didn't actually come to the farm till after the drama is over. So he's off the hook. He's off the hook.

[00:02:33] But everybody else is like, yeah, I'm O negative, but whatever. I don't know. Yeah, they're just like, oh, Rick's got it. Rick seems to be handling it. He got it. It's fine. Before we start, just watching this, it just occurred to me that we've interviewed most

[00:02:49] of these people on this podcast. Karen and I did back in the day. Amazing. Just want to remind people you can hear me and Karen and a couple other guests at times interview just about all these early Walking Dead actors.

[00:03:03] If you go to podcastica.com and search on any of them, Stephen Yeun, Norman Reedus, Andrew Lincoln, Sarah Wayne Callies, Lauren Cohan, Scott Wilson, a couple times with him, Jon Bernthal, Chandler Riggs, Laurie Holden, Jeffrey DeMunn, Irony Singleton, Emily Kinney. They're all there.

[00:03:21] So if you're curious, and you know that was back when these episodes were airing or season one, some of them a little bit later, but you can hear them talk about what they were thinking back then. Incredible. Yeah. So with that said, let's get into this week's episode.

[00:03:38] Season two, episode two, Bloodletting. How was it to watch? Yeah, good. Slower than the season opener. Quite a tense episode. It's better watching it knowing what comes next because it feels like more payoff.

[00:03:55] Yeah, it's interesting to see, to think about next week in particular with Otis and everything. I can't wait to talk about that, actually. Right? I'm excited to talk about that. I felt anxious watching this and it's just such a shitty situation for everybody and Rick in particular.

[00:04:19] He's so strung out. He's just so depleted emotionally and with his blood he's getting all pale and wan. He's had a rough week. He is not having a good day at all. So what's your first point?

[00:04:38] We meet Maggie and the Greens, which is such an important part of the show going forward. There's this amazing shot where they all run to the front porch and it's kind of set up. I wonder if it is a still from the comic.

[00:04:51] I'd need to go back and check. But you see them all, Patricia, Jimmy, Beth, Herschel and Maggie all kind of come and look out at Rick running towards them with Carl in his arms. And it's just so nice that they're here.

[00:05:05] Maggie feels like such an integral part of the show. It feels like the pieces are really coming into place now that she's there. We also get Maggie and Glenn's first meet, which is ironic because she's carrying a baseball bat, which I completely forgot about.

[00:05:20] I don't think she even noticed him, but he's like, oh my God. He's like, hello farmer's daughter. He says this chick came out of nowhere like Zorro on a horse. And I'm like, aww, he's smitten. Lauren Cohan's accent as well made me laugh a little bit.

[00:05:39] She's gone very southern in this one. It doesn't always land. In real life, she has this amazing literal mid-Atlantic accent that's kind of like Moira Rose from Schitt's Creek. It's very English-American American English. But I did laugh when she's like, there's been a accident.

[00:05:55] That line just really cracked me up. I was like, is there been a accident? But she's fantastic. She just storms onto the scene in the horse and kicks some ass. And I just love that.

[00:06:05] I feel like it's a nice uptick in kind of some of the women characters, which at this point are Carole's bereft. Andrea's very depressed and Laurie's being quite judgmental. It's like, I'll save the day. You finding these women annoying? Here comes Maggie.

[00:06:24] Yeah, Maggie comes in, she's like, there's been an accident. All these women are crap. Get on this horse, Glam. Get on this horse, Glam. But no, I love that. And I loved the efficiency of the greens all together. I love Patricia. I'd forgotten about Patricia. I love her.

[00:06:43] Her accent is wild. She's so Southern, so beautiful. You know that is the actress who plays her, Jane McNeil, that's her first role. Like her first film or TV role. And since then she's been in loads. Yeah, and she went on to do something. Ozark! Something in particular.

[00:07:00] Oh, was it Ozark? Yeah, she was in Ozark. She's in loads of things. Because I went and looked up, because I assumed she was like a character actor who'd been in loads of things, but nope. Her first role.

[00:07:09] And she's just really, I don't know, there's something about her that I find really appealing. And I really wished Rick and Shane would stop yelling at her. It's like she's trying to help. Stop it. And Herschel as well appears just kind of perfectly peak, moral, philosophical, pragmatic Herschel.

[00:07:31] And it's interesting because his character undergoes a bit of a breakdown and a softening throughout the series. So it's wonderful to see him in this kind of stiff shirt collars, shirt sleeves, veterinarian dealing with this very stressful situation.

[00:07:45] So yeah, I just really loved that we're at the farm. The greens are all here. The greens assemble, I've written in my notes. Yeah, that really pleased me. And they're all right now, they're just helpful and heroic and that's it. No complications yet.

[00:08:02] There will be some of those to come for sure. But yeah, it just seems like here's a place you can rest. I happen to be a surgeon. Okay, I'm a veterinarian, but still I'm very confident. I know exactly what needs to be done.

[00:08:17] My daughter is on this horse with her bat. Another bat, you know, we've talked because wasn't there already a bat? Yeah, I think who's the guy that left with his family? I've already forgotten his name. Morales. Morales. He was whacking Zeds with a bat.

[00:08:36] He was, he's good at it. We got to find out when Walking Dead 100 came out to see if they were slightly nodding to this already.

[00:08:44] In fact, Kirkman may have already known it was coming because he's writing on the show at this point and just stuck those in there. He is. He fully is. I think we get hints of what's to come as well, which is interesting. So there's this scene where…

[00:08:58] So every week I like to look at the timeline and tell you what's where we are at. And the earliest event in the timeline on the Walking Dead wikia is the founding of the Green Farm, which Herschel says in this episode is 160 years previously.

[00:09:13] And he talks about epidemics and what they are for humankind. How all we've got left is each other, but there is a chance of a cure. And he draws the analogy with the AIDS epidemic, which I thought was quite interesting.

[00:09:26] But you can see he is very determined that there is a cure, even when Rick says, you know, we've been to the CDC and that's a dead end. Because he seems pretty straightforwardly just solid right now.

[00:09:37] But little do we know that his wife and stepson are in that barn waiting to be cured. So I like that they're laying the groundwork there for what's to come.

[00:09:50] And Herschel's point of view on this and his kind of unwavering belief that a cure is possible and better things will come. And he's got a point to think about it in terms of epidemics, although I don't know, does he realize that there's only like 10% of humanity left?

[00:10:08] It's a little different this time. I feel like he's not really ventured beyond the FEMA shelter so much. Yeah, maybe he doesn't know or maybe he's just delusional. Yeah, or a little bit of both.

[00:10:21] Unwavering in his belief, I suppose, which is something that is true about Herschel and his religious beliefs. But at this point, he's also unwavering in his belief in the possibility of a cure. I'm just saying if you're going to say, you know, we've had this before AIDS.

[00:10:35] I'm like, well, it wasn't quite the same given that most of humanity is now gone. Oh, Herschel, you have so much left to learn. So that, I believe, is my first point. And props to Otis as well. He is trying to do right.

[00:10:58] He's clearly really upset about what he did. Didn't realize that. You see him saying to Patricia, like, you know, I didn't see him until he was on the ground. And he treats Rick's Colt Python with respect. He says, that's a fine weapon, Rick.

[00:11:13] Go get it back to me in good condition. Yeah, that's an iconic gun. I'd forgotten. He took it and we know he doesn't come back. So I'm guessing Shane must bring it back. I think that is a good guess. I love seeing the farm, too.

[00:11:29] For me, it just brings back memories because I spent so many hours out there in front of the farm on the field at night. We weren't allowed to go up onto the balcony or anything.

[00:11:42] None of the zombies, because the farm owners were religious and they agreed to let the Walking Dead use the farmhouse as long as no zombies ever went up into the house. As long as nobody went in the barn and found the other zombies.

[00:11:58] The barn was built for the show. That's cool. So where was it? It was off the beaten path. You know, it almost kind of makes sense that it was untouched because you wouldn't know it was there unless you knew how to get to it.

[00:12:15] It was one of those type places. You don't just pass by it on the highway or anything. And it's down in Georgia. Yeah, it's near where all the Walking Dead filming locations are. But we were taken there on a shuttle. Shuttle's full of zombies. That's incredible.

[00:12:32] And seeing Patricia, I remember chewing on her leg, except it was a dummy. Patricia. And getting a little too into it and getting like dirt in my mouth. Eww! I know.

[00:12:47] But I think, you know, because I was on the finale, I don't want to spend too much time talking about my experience until we get to the finale episode. Unless there's something related that, you know, makes sense.

[00:13:00] But I'll mention the plan is to have Grace on with us for the finale. She's the one who helped me get on the show. And she was there with me for those four days when we filmed the finale. She was a zombie, too.

[00:13:14] And she ended up on the Podcastica network. She started, you know, with our Game of Thrones podcast, Game of Microphones, and then went on to do Under the Comet covers with Mr. Blog, aka Eric.

[00:13:27] So I hope that works out because she hasn't been on in a long time. And I'm really looking forward to seeing. I talked to her a little bit about it. She's like, I don't know if I'll remember much. And I'm like, yeah, me neither.

[00:13:37] Maybe we can jog each other's memories about it. I've missed hearing her. I used to love Under the Comet covers. Oh, yeah. I miss her, too. But I was happy she at least for now said she'll do it. So hopefully she will. That's brilliant.

[00:13:52] Maggie, I remember talking with Steven Yeun on this podcast about being excited to meet Maggie before Lauren Cohen was even cast, you know, but we'd read the comics and we're like, that's coming up, right? Yeah. So that's cool.

[00:14:07] The Walking Dead wiki says that Maggie was 22 in this episode and 35 by the Walking Dead finale and then 40 or 41 in Dead City. So I guess it's a five year time jump, which I guess lines up with Herschel's age in Dead City. So isn't that crazy? That is wild.

[00:14:28] 22 to 41. Lauren Cohen does look young in this episode. I don't know if she just looks…I mean, God, she looks amazing now. She does. But she does look younger here. You can see that she's still in her 20s, I think, at this point.

[00:14:42] Yeah, I think she's actually 41 now. So that means she was actually older than Maggie back then by a few years. I didn't calculate it out exactly, but probably mid to late 20s. Oh, man. What a journey Maggie's got to go on.

[00:15:03] I was thinking about that, her, Rick, Carol and Daryl making it all the way to the end. Yeah. She's like, yeah, one of the top icons enough to get her own spin off, you know? I'm so glad they got her back.

[00:15:19] Herschel, I did many panels with Scott Wilson. He was always a gentleman. He was a little hard of hearing. So sometimes on those panels, the sound got echoey and it was kind of hard to communicate. But he was always super nice and he'd give compliments sometimes and stuff.

[00:15:37] I remember they used to pair him up with David Morrissey a lot. Yeah, yeah, I did that. Yeah, it's cool. I liked it. They always seem to have a cool little relationship. Yeah. Things ended the way they did. They're both just cool dudes, you know?

[00:15:52] It was always fun to put people who, like I'd put, you know, Noah in the revolving door and the guy who played Nicholas that screwed him over. They were both super cool dudes and I would do panels with them all the time, you know?

[00:16:07] I remember the Nicholas dude being cool. He improved, I feel like. Yeah. Yeah, very nice.

[00:16:13] And I would always like try to make sure the audience realized what a cool guy he was because they would come in with a chip on their shoulder about what a douchebag Nicholas was, you know? Nicholas. Nicholas, yeah.

[00:16:25] And then just since we're on the subject of the Greens, Herschel says the epidemic took his wife and stepson. I looked it up. His wife was Annette Green. That's his second wife who's Beth's mom. His first wife was Josephine who is Maggie's mom and she died somehow.

[00:16:44] And so that's why he said stepson because that's Annette's son that she brought into the marriage, Sean. And Maggie, I guess, looks at photos of her family in Dead City and Sean's in one of those. So anyway. Cool. All right.

[00:17:05] I'm going to talk about creating drama without villains. Interesting. Because, you know, we covered The Walking Dead for so long and we'd be like, yeah, they just keep rinsing and repeating.

[00:17:22] They bring in a villain and then, you know, they have trouble and then they get to the midseason finale and then the stakes get worse and then they defeat him at the end of the season or whatever. We're not even we haven't even started that yet.

[00:17:36] You know, it's like no villains. The governor's the first one, Gareth and the termites, Joe and the claimers, Negan and the saviors, Alpha and Beta and the whispers, Pope and the Reapers.

[00:17:48] And then I guess you could say Pamela and Lance in the Commonwealth, maybe a little more complicated there. But yeah, but I feel like Shane kind of forestalled that pattern because he's got these conflicting drives. He's not a straight up villain at all. He's like Rick's brother.

[00:18:03] He loves him, but he also has wants to lead and loves Laurie. And I think all the villains had depth to one degree or another, but maybe none were quite as gray area as Shane, you know?

[00:18:18] Hmm. I would agree with that because we we we see Shane in a much deeper way, I think, from the beginning and the evolution into what he becomes. Yeah. And I think with an actor like Bernthal, you get so much as well, so much.

[00:18:33] But all the actors they had playing villains were pretty good in The Walking Dead. That's not to criticize the rest of them. Just Bernthal in particular had a way of making you like I found Shane incredibly sympathetic in this episode. Oh, yeah. Despite everything he's done.

[00:18:47] I was like, oh man, he's really there for Rick.

[00:18:49] Yeah, they have these intimate scenes where he's wiping the blood off of his face and touching, you know, trying to comfort him and telling him he would break his legs if he tries to leave, which knowing Shane, he actually would. So you better not. Yeah, he really would.

[00:19:05] I would not. I wouldn't fuck with him like he will break your legs. But so it's I think it's I usually resist the idea of black and white villains or I don't know. I mean, that can be fun sometimes.

[00:19:21] But to me, it's usually more interesting when it's complicated like this and it's gray area and there's different forces at play and stuff.

[00:19:29] But that said, without a clear antagonist and not a lot of zombies who I would say are were the main antagonists in Walking Dead season one. I feel like a lot of this season feels a bit like a hand wringing soap opera to me.

[00:19:45] I think the best episodes of this season, in my opinion, we'll see if that holds during the rewatch. But from what I remember or later when those bad guys come into it in Nebraska, you know, Nebraska.

[00:19:56] So, so good. And when Shane becomes more clearly an antagonist at the end. And I wonder if maybe the writers learned from that. Like, oh, yeah, the show got really exciting when we had a bad guy and that's why they started that pattern.

[00:20:08] You know, I don't know. It was in the comic, too. It was following the comic. So I don't know. I remember this season feeling like slow, slow, slow, slow, slow, enjoyable. But then at the end being like, holy fuck, what just happened in three episodes?

[00:20:20] Like, what the hell? So, yeah. Yeah. I think that there's something to that. And so looking what they're trying to do right now, they don't have a bad guy, but it's an action horror show. So they have to create tension and drama.

[00:20:35] And so how they do it now is a lot of accidents, bad decisions and hand wringing over those decisions and talking it over incessantly. So Carl is accidentally shot and they need to get medical supplies from the local zombie infested high school before he dies.

[00:20:51] T-Dog accidentally cuts himself and gets infected. You know, he's maybe going to go into sepsis if he doesn't get antibiotics, having paranoid delusions from it. Sophia, who's a child, is too scared to follow Rick's directions, so gets lost.

[00:21:08] And as we learn, zombified. That's kind of like an accident. Accident. And lots of, like I said, hand wringing, Rick fretting over whether he should have left Sophia there in the first place. Rick fretting to Shane about whether it was his fault that Carl got shot.

[00:21:26] He says, Carl got shot because I couldn't cut bait. You said it. Call it. Head back. I guess he's saying that Shane had suggested giving up on Sophia already. Yeah, well, I think Shane said call it for today.

[00:21:37] Oh, let's head back. And Rick's like, no, we got to stay a bit longer. Right. And so now he's questioning himself. He is questioning whether he should have brought Carl along with him. He's fretting about whether he should leave Carl's side to go tell Lori what happened.

[00:21:55] And that's when Shane says he'll break his legs. It's just I feel like it can be a bit padded out and soap opera-ish to just have Rick just constantly. And having conversations with everybody about whether he did the right thing.

[00:22:11] My favorite piece of drama, though, in this episode was when they found out that Herschel was a veterinarian. I just love that moment. It's so funny. It shouldn't be funny, but it's really funny. Oh my God. The way they all play it.

[00:22:27] It's funny, but it's also kind of great. Like she, you know, Lori says you're in completely in over your head, aren't you? And he says, ma'am, aren't we all? Just such a succinct way to address that.

[00:22:37] It's like, fuck yeah, you do what you can with what you have. Oh, I loved it. That moment where Rick's like, sweetheart, we can't be shopping for surgeons. And then he's like, what's her line? You've seen combat, no, a combat medic? And he's like, no, a veterinarian.

[00:22:53] You can tell he doesn't want to tell them either. He's like, I was hoping you wouldn't ask this question. But I mean, I guess in part because we know how it turns out, but I'm just like, Hey, he seems confident.

[00:23:06] If a pig got shot and you needed to get the fragments out. I mean, it seems like you'd have to have pretty much the same skill. I was having a discussion with somebody about this last week.

[00:23:15] And I think in some ways these are the kind of discussions I have on my downtime. A vet would be almost more use because a vet when you're a vet, you have to study so many different nervous systems.

[00:23:28] Physiology is like you have to know so much more in some ways than medics with specific interests. And I'm sure I heard from my uncle is a medical doctor.

[00:23:38] And he once said to me, like, one of the best places to collapse is the vets because they were all really good at first aid. Whereas like around a GP or a surgeon, they're not going to know what to do. And I was like, oh, that's interesting.

[00:23:49] So part of me was like, yeah, it would be ideal if your kid on the table, like, you know, oh, good. You've done this on a sheepdog. But, you know, he pulls it off. He manages. It's better than nothing. Yeah. I mean, he does. He does.

[00:24:05] It does what he needs to do. We know he does. Spoilers.

[00:24:09] And then Rick's fretting about whether to go look for Shane when he's not back quickly, even though he's like looks like a ghost because he's lost so much blood and hasn't been drinking his orange juice all over the table. Absolute nightmare.

[00:24:21] And Laurie says, you know, if he said he'll be back, he will. And she ends up being right. Then he does whatever it takes to get back. But I'm a little bit like maybe send someone else, you know, like just to check, Laurie. Like, don't you?

[00:24:35] Aren't you a little worried? Like it's the zombie apocalypse. So you never know. It's an interesting choice. And then, I mean, because the show needs to create drama and they don't have any just straight up antagonists. It ends up the kids aren't faring so well.

[00:24:49] Sophia's lost as far as they know. And Carl's shot. And I am a bit like, what the fuck are you guys doing? Protect your kids. Someone call social services. Rick says, is that why I got out of the hospital?

[00:25:05] Found my family for it to end here like this? This kind of sick joke. And I was like, well, season eight is the sick joke. It's coming. You've got time, buddy. Just not as much time as you should. And then later there's more conflict down to this episode.

[00:25:22] But from Herschel being resistant to letting them stay at the farm, which reminds me of Fear the Walking Dead seasons four through eight. But I guess at this point it wasn't beaten to death that concept. No. And so anyway, I don't know.

[00:25:38] I want to hear from listeners and you if you feel this way, who can make this seem better to me. It's not awful, but it just feels a little bit like, OK, they're upset about the accidents and the decisions. And I just it's not my favorite.

[00:25:57] I think here's what I'll say. I think you have a choice when you're writing and consuming a show like this. And one of the things that's standing out to me about season one and two so far is that the characters aren't superheroes yet. They're not super capable.

[00:26:18] They're not super confident. And in some ways they don't reach full superhero. But I would say by seasons nine onwards, we're looking at characters who have developed skills that they would not have thought they could have at this stage in the game.

[00:26:31] And as it's like it's almost like a D&D campaign, as the characters level up, the scenarios and the danger that they find themselves in has to level up. And that generally involves a conflict with a big bad or a society that isn't what it seems.

[00:26:45] And I think this is us kind of treading water a little bit this season because we've done season one, which is like what happens when the real world, as we know, is shattered by a zombie apocalypse.

[00:26:59] And we haven't quite reached the stage of here's a bad guy who keeps zombie heads in his tank and people really starting to lose the plot. We're kind of at that in between stage and we're so, so short in the timeline.

[00:27:12] Like Rick's only been awake for eight days. But because the seasons are long and the time is expanded, I think you're right in that it does feel frustrating with some of this and it does feel manufactured and a bit meandering.

[00:27:24] But I do wonder sometimes if this is what the zombie apocalypse would actually be like. It would just be all of us sitting being like, did we make the right decision? I don't know. Should I stay? Should I go?

[00:27:36] Rather than let's send a bunch of burning zeds into a quarry and claim back our home. Like I think it's interesting and I think it's a fair criticism of this season that it's quite slow and soaplike and often quite boring.

[00:27:51] But I do have a soft spot for some of these storylines that made the characters still feel really fallible. Like it felt like anyone could die at any moment, which we really lost after Glenn and Abraham.

[00:28:04] I feel like we really lost that. It was a sense of like, well, with some notable exceptions, season eight, et cetera.

[00:28:12] I don't know. I'm kind of with you, but I'm not. I think I'm less frustrated by it. I think I'm like, OK, well, we'll see where this takes us.

[00:28:21] Yeah, I might be hitting that a little too hard. I mean, I enjoyed watching the episode and I felt I mean, as I've said many times, if a show can make me feel something that that I appreciate that.

[00:28:31] And even if it's like, oh, like Carl, you know, I think especially the first time I saw this, I was like, I knew he was going to make it through because I read the comic.

[00:28:39] But I was still just like that poor little kid on the little bed. Yeah, I can't believe he's 38 years old now. Chandler Riggs. I can't. It's crazy. He's 24, though. He's doing so well. He is 24. Yeah, in this scene, he's 24.

[00:28:56] Do you know if it was a real Chandler that he was running with? I don't know. Or if it was a rubber Chandler. I couldn't decide because I was like, oh, that must have been really annoying to do all that running. But it looks pretty real.

[00:29:09] I was like, maybe it's not. So poor Chandler had a whole day of just being like.

[00:29:17] I think I mean, the other point I'll segue into one of my other points is I'm thinking a lot about Rick, primarily because I've missed him and Rick and Michonne is coming up.

[00:29:28] And I'm thinking about Rick's journey as a character because a lot of Rick's development is about him struggling with his mental health and his inability to accept leadership while at the same time, always, always running to help.

[00:29:46] And I thought this episode was super valuable in looking at Rick because the thing he keeps repeating to Shane is a little girl goes missing. You go look for her. And it's like that's his moral code. He knows the things he's learned as a police officer, which is like you look for little girls that go missing.

[00:30:03] You fight the bad guys, people like Merle Dixon, you punish, you know, these kind of things. And this is the season I think where Rick becomes really untethered from that morality and starts to not even knowingly question it. But one of the things he's called out a lot on in this episode is running away.

[00:30:21] And I don't think Rick runs away because he is a coward, because he runs often into difficult or dangerous situations and is often foolhardy. No, he's not a coward at all.

[00:30:31] But I'm going to say I think he might be a coward with emotions because I think he might run away from things that are emotionally scary to him. And I think running away from when his wife and child need him more and trying to solve something else is about his inability to fix something that is terrifying to him, which is the idea that he can't save his son.

[00:30:51] So what can he do? He can go and save other people to help his son. He can go and fix other things. You're talking in season one? Season two in this episode.

[00:31:01] I don't get that. He's like, where the fuck is Shane with the medicine? My kid's going to die. Let's go get it. Before that he tries to run and get Laurie and leave Carl on his own as well. Yeah, to Laurie.

[00:31:14] To Laurie, but I do think there's part of him that can't sit still with difficult situations and is like, I have to go and do stuff. And it's always noble stuff. It's not like he's like, oh, I have to go to the store and buy beer while Carl's asleep, if that's okay.

[00:31:28] But I think it's interesting that there's this real like itchiness to him that he can't be present. And that's something that Laurie, we see a little bit in the flashback at the start is her feeling like Rick isn't authentic with her or fully there or fully emotional with her or able to be like you're being a bitch right now.

[00:31:48] And I'm like, Laurie, come to our podcast. We have no problem telling you when you're being a bitch. But I thought it was an interesting character flaw of Rick's that he is in a sense flighty, though he's always running towards other things that are helpful or good.

[00:32:04] He's not always good at just sitting still and being there for the people who need him. And that's maybe where his difficulties with Laurie have come from in their marriage. And Sarah Wayne Kelly's and Scott Wilson as Herschel and John Bernthal as Shane all call him out on this in this episode and are like, you need to be here with your wife. You need to be here with your kid. You will not forgive yourself if you're not there when something happens.

[00:32:28] I don't know if I fully buy into this because when he's going to leave his wife, it's not because he's not comfortable being with his wife. It's because he wants to go get the medicine and the medical supplies for his son. But when he's going to leave Carl the first time, it's because he wants to go to Laurie and tell her. So to me, I don't know if that plays into a narrative that he's like hiding from the truth or whatever.

[00:32:52] I think he's keeping busy to avoid sitting with difficult feelings, which we all do.

[00:32:55] Yeah. I mean, I think he wants to do something because he feels helpless. But I don't know if I see that. I mean, honestly, I do think, dude, don't leave your son alone right now to go tell Laurie. She'll find out that.

[00:33:11] Yeah. Of everything you said, that seems like the one that's the most crazy and Shane says pretty much the same thing. But I don't I can't anything else. I don't know. I mean, it does remind me of later on when Laurie's trying to talk to him about their marriage and he's like, I got stuff and thanks to you or whatever.

[00:33:32] Busy Laurie doing stuff. Thanks.

[00:33:34] But but we haven't seen enough of because we only hear Laurie's. Well, we heard Rick side of it in season one. It opened with him talking to Shane about basically saying I can't do anything right. You know, she says I don't talk enough. But when I do, she doesn't like what I have to say. And now we hear her side of it saying he's just so damn reasonable. It bothers me even more. And I wish he would just yell at me.

[00:34:04] So I feel like it's hard to know. To me that I'm not going to say that's a flaw of Rick's and not Laurie's without having seen it, you know, it could be fully her fault or both of them. Most likely, it's both of them.

[00:34:19] Yeah, no, absolutely. I don't think Laurie's like blameless in any of this at all. But I thought it was quite pronounced rewatching this episode that it's something he gets called out on a lot is this sort of and I think the first instance we see of it is in season one when he's reunited with Carl and Laurie but wants to go and get Merle and Laurie's like, are you fucking kidding me? And he's like, yeah, and it's there. He's not wrong. He did leave Merle on the roof like they all did.

[00:34:47] But at the same time, I think Rick is so selfless that sometimes it is almost selfish. If that makes sense. Like he's so like, I'll go and do this. I'm going to do that. He's not actually thinking about the people around him, like his wife and kid who might need him at that point.

[00:35:02] And I think that's a really interesting attribute. I won't call it a flaw, but an attribute for a hero to have is this almost moral flightiness of like, no, no, I'll go and do this thing instead. I'll go and fix this thing. And I think that enforced having to stay there by Carl to give him blood is a nice plot device.

[00:35:26] Yeah, I think the thing with Merle. Yeah, it's one of those walking dead conundrums that can be debated, right? Because, yeah, you're leaving your wife and child in a dangerous world, but also you just consigned this guy to death by chaining him to the roof. And so he's maybe sort of your responsibility. So I don't think it's a tough call, in my opinion.

[00:35:54] I mean, he's also a total asshole. So maybe it's a little bit easy. Yeah, it's not an easy call, but Rick will always pick the option that is like going to fix something rather than staying put and fixing something. And I think that quite interesting.

[00:36:08] I don't know if there's anything to fix. I mean, he, because you're framing it as if he's going to help Merle because he can't handle what's happening at the camp and needs to run away. But I don't necessarily see that.

[00:36:17] No, I'm saying that's the first instance of him. Like his sight is always on the next thing to fix or something away from what he's doing. Like he will never…what makes Rick so interesting and so good of a person is he will never just sit and enjoy the thing that he has. Like he'll never just turn up and be like, this is good. I'm not going to put myself in more danger.

[00:36:40] Like he's always it's that mentality of a little girl goes missing, you go look for her. Like it's that his moral code is so strict of like, you go do the thing, you take action, you do this thing. And in this episode that's challenged by like three different people.

[00:36:55] And no matter what his motivation is, and it's almost always good with Rick at this point. Like we haven't reached dark Rick yet. Sometimes he just needs to be there and be present. And he's called out on that in this episode.

[00:37:12] Yeah, I don't know. Maybe we'll disagree on this because I think I can think of many situations where he's sitting there having heart to heart discussions with the people that he cares about in his life. And he later on. Well, in this season, he's in the barn with Carl having a talk with him. I think he gives him the gun and has some kind of a talk.

[00:37:31] Yeah, it's not that he never has those moments. That would be ludicrous. It's more that I feel like that's evidence that he's present with the people he cares about. Yeah, I think he becomes more present. But at this point, he's in panic mode. And I think it is a we all have our tendencies of how we deal with things of like, burning our heads in the sand for me. I go and sleep. It's not a great habit. If I'm stressed, I'll go and have a nap. And it really doesn't help anyone but myself.

[00:37:55] But Rick struggles with that in this episode. And I thought that was an interesting flaw to play with, or interesting challenge to play with for a character. Yeah, okay. We'll have to disagree on that one. We'll see. We'll see.

[00:38:09] I mean, let's keep an eye on that for sure. It'd be interesting to see if more stuff like that comes up. Where it feels like he's avoiding fixing something that he's needs to be in the present and going off and doing something else instead.

[00:38:22] Or is doing something to try and fix the present thing. But what he's doing is taking him far away when he could actually be useful being there. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so let's see what's next for me. The flashback.

[00:38:40] We talked a little bit about it. One of the few pre-ZA flashbacks in the show, which we talked about recently when we were covering the Daryl show and we saw Isabelle in Paris, which was freaking awesome. That was a really cool one.

[00:38:56] That was a cool, that was the best flashback. Aside from that, we saw, I think later this season, Atlanta being blown up while they're all stuck in traffic. But that's not really pre-ZA because it's in progress.

[00:39:13] We see one of Michonne, but it's kind of more like a nightmare than a flashback. She's with her son and her boyfriend and his friend in their apartment, but then the two guys turn into armless Zeds, which kind of shows how she got her pets, I guess.

[00:39:29] And then we see Negan cheating on his wife who had cancer, which I think that's the only other legit pre-ZA flashback that I can think of is the Negan stuff. In the main show.

[00:39:44] In the main show. Even in the other ones, although I could probably be forgetting something. No. Yeah, I think you're correct actually.

[00:39:54] So that's kind of, that makes this one really weird in hindsight because they didn't really do any more except for the Negan thing. And I wonder if they were thinking this was a device that they would use.

[00:40:07] I always felt if Lost hadn't used it so much, they might have used it more. Oh yeah. Me too. Because that was a cool thing about Lost at the start was that kind of thing. But at this point we're what 2010 and Lost finished? In 2010.

[00:40:21] Lost finished yet? Yeah, it finished in 2010. So I wonder if they were maybe like, let's not overuse this.

[00:40:26] Yeah, I mean it would have made a lot of sense in this show to show people how to show how people were in civilized society and then shown how they either changed or didn't post apocalypse. You know, that would have been a really cool device. But I think you're absolutely right that Lost had just been such a big cultural thing and had done that to death. And so it would have been crazy for Walking Dead.

[00:40:52] I don't know if that's why Walking Dead didn't do it, but I could see that. So why do you think they did it for this? What did it give us?

[00:41:00] Yeah, that's what I was asking. I had a few different thoughts. I was thinking at first to reiterate that Laurie and Rick's marriage was on shaky ground because that's how the series opened with Rick talking to Shane about it. And here Laurie's telling her friend that they were fighting.

[00:41:17] And so the focus on the troubles in their marriage and I think it's a lot about Rick or Laurie not being happy with Rick. And maybe the show wants us to feel like things are shaky and unstable. But then in the rest of this episode, they actually seem pretty solid together. And we saw in season one, they recommitted to each other. And after the ZA. And in this episode, Laurie's holding his hand as she kneels next to Carl.

[00:41:46] Oh, that's a cute scene.

[00:41:48] It feels like tragedy is bringing them closer together. Then I thought maybe it had more to do with the flashback with just showing the similarity of Carl just having gotten shot and then Rick having been shot before. And in the flashback, Shane shows up and tells Laurie and then she tells Carl. And later in this episode, Rick has to tell Laurie that Carl was shot. But then I'm like, well, yeah, but so what? Like, why do we need a whole flashback just to be reminded of that?

[00:42:14] I wondered as well if it was about reminding us of Shane's closeness to the family prior to the affair with Laurie. Yeah, it was. Like he genuinely is. He's like the uncle. Oh, did he? Yeah.

[00:42:25] Amazing. Thanks, Rob. Thanks for setting me up there. And I don't know if any of you know this, but I am Robert Kirkman. I think it was about I think it confirmed for me that Laurie and Shane were not having an affair prior to. Really?

[00:42:40] Yeah, they didn't. Their body language was not. They seem pretty familiar to me.

[00:42:46] Yeah, but in the way that you're I mean, so canonically, Laurie is, I think, two or three years younger than Rick and they were all the same high school. And I think it's to do with Rick's brother, Jeff or Jeffrey. This is like weird comic book lore.

[00:43:02] I think she was in the same high school year as Jeffrey and they met at like a party when Rick was home for college from college one summer or something. So I think it's just she says in her monologue or in her conversation with her friend, they got married so young.

[00:43:18] And I would imagine when you get married so young, you would know your partner's best friend pretty well, especially if he's like an uncle to your kid. So yeah, I don't know. I don't think I think if they'd wanted to hint that there was an affair already going on, something would have been said to the friend or there would have been something in the dialogue that would have hinted at it.

[00:43:35] Yeah, I guess you're right. Yes. Yeah. Because they were just sort of close to each other. And yeah, I'm not just trying to say you're wrong. I just want to know. I'm like, I'll take that one. That's a one for me.

[00:43:48] Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Because they were close enough together that no one would hear. And so the fact that the writers for went that opportunity probably means that they weren't.

[00:44:01] Because that was a perfect point to have like Laurie like start to say like, yeah, there's a lot that could have happened there. But I thought for me it was the thing that struck me the second time watching it was the how do I tell my son his father's been shot thinking about how do I tell my wife her son's been shot?

[00:44:17] And the way that Chandler Riggs played it, because you don't see what hear what they're saying. But he cries and then just shakes his head because you know, she's like, it's gonna be okay. All right, so I know whatever she's saying. He's so good.

[00:44:29] I think he's so good. Like, okay, yeah, I'm the more I watch this, the more I'm like Chandler Riggs you got bad press.

[00:44:35] Well, I just think he wasn't as good later on maybe I don't know. I mean, he wasn't he was always fine. But I think he was better in the first couple seasons. He's just little. So little.

[00:44:50] I don't know. We'll see. We'll see what we think. But here's what Kirkman said in Entertainment Weekly. He said a lot of people think of Shane as a clear villain and then he did a bad thing. But if you really analyze that situation, he's a good guy and has done the right thing at every turn.

[00:45:06] I don't know. That's a little debatable. But because he's done that, and like in the shower at the sea or whatever, not the shower. He's fine in the shower. But at the CDC with Laurie, not so great. Yeah, but that's an understatement.

[00:45:18] But he goes on because he's done that and it's not working out for him. It's driving him crazy. So we really wanted to show that he's a tragic figure much more than a villainous figure.

[00:45:27] It's just a series of unfortunate situations that have led him to slowly losing himself in this world. Popping back in time and showing his concern for Rick and how he cares for Laurie and Carl, I thought would be a good thing to do. So it sounds like from what he's saying, it was purely about just showing that Shane is a complex, tragic figure, not a straight up villain, and that he cares for Carl before you know what happens next week.

[00:45:53] Well, yeah, they've done a lot to put Shane firmly in the bad books. So I do wonder if they hadn't shown this would we have been like, Yeah, yeah, Shane, you're just trying to get in Laurie's path, whatever. So I think it was a smart choice to do that.

[00:46:06] Yeah. And then on the flashback, though, one interesting thing to me that it shows about Rick and Laurie's marriage troubles is she's saying to her friend, I guess, for honest, he wasn't, he wasn't the asshole. He was trying hard to be reasonable. It just pushed my buttons all the more. And she says she wishes Rick would just tell her she's being a bitch if that's what she's being. And she's mad that he doesn't yell at her.

[00:46:29] And that makes it make a little more sense to me why she went with Shane so quickly, because a she just wasn't feeling that passion for Rick anymore. She doesn't know for sure if she's in love with him. And she craved someone who would just kind of lay into her and yell at her, which Shane had no trouble doing, you know?

[00:46:47] No, yeah, he's very different in that way. Like she says, there's a point in this episode where she says, like, he's like you that way. I think there are ways in which they're very like one another. But I think yeah, Shane runs hot. Whereas I think Rick, you know, the way things end up with him and Laurie is really tragic because Rick is unable to kind of engage, talk to her at all. Yeah, engage at all. Like he just shuts off. And that's really frustrating.

[00:47:11] And I mean, we'll see how it is. But I remember thinking at that time, I might have been the same way. Like, look, I've had enough for you for now. I need a little bit of space and we'll deal with this when we can. And then she's gone. And then it's like, Oh, fuck, I fucked up. I didn't have a chance to deal with it. You know? And then ghost Laurie came and they went to therapy. It was great.

[00:47:32] Yeah. Ghost therapy. Super effective. But what do you think about her wanting that? I can understand it. Like I, I find it very frustrating. I'm the one who runs hot. I'm the one who's like yelling and gets pissed off. Peter's your Rick.

[00:47:51] Oh, 100%. There's nothing worse than when the other person is being reasonable. I understand. I fucking hate you. Well, I can understand why you'd feel that way.

[00:48:00] Yeah, I'm like, fucking go off me. Like, I just, yeah, it's one of those things where I was like, Oh, Laurie. Yeah, I feel you sometimes because it is. It's frustrating when you're feeling really hit up about something and really like angry and the person beside you is just like, yeah, yeah, that's rough. Yeah, it's not good. But you know, we'll get through it. And I'm like, I don't.

[00:48:21] I always think about, um, there was this meme. I'm sure I've spoken about this on the podcast before. There's this meme on Tumblr about a sandwich, a woman who dropped her sandwich. And she said, I just phoned my boyfriend to tell him I dropped my sandwich. And he said, are you at the feelings or solutions part of it?

[00:48:37] And I think the feelings, the feelings are important. And if you're with somebody who's very like calm and solution based, sometimes the feelings bit doesn't get heard. And that's really hard. And I think Laurie's come up against that in this and it's sad.

[00:48:51] It's a little, I mean, there's a little bit of a wrinkle on it though, because I hear what you're saying. Like sometimes you just want someone to feel what you're feeling with you. But this is more of wanting someone to push back against you too. You know what I mean?

[00:49:02] I can understand that. I push it when people are, I don't know. I was raised with quite like, not shouty parents, but in quite a verbally expressive house. So sometimes I mistake if someone's not yelling at me, that means they don't care. Or if someone's not engaging with me or getting upset, then that means that they don't care.

[00:49:24] And I can kind of see that from Laurie being like, oh, he's shutting off. He doesn't give a shit. This is depressing kind of thing. So no, I'm with her. I can see that. I think that's fucking ridiculous, Lucy. No, I'm just kidding.

[00:49:48] It's so hard to find the right place to be with people. It's really difficult. But yeah, no, I'm kind of with Laurie and I can understand why that would be frustrating.

[00:50:00] I can too, actually. I can see her being there with Rick and just like you said, and he's just like, okay, dear, I totally understand. And you're like, fuck you. Where are you in there?

[00:50:12] Yeah, where are you? And you can see that in this episode. They're both feeling a lot like Rick's not exactly sitting there like, oh no, yeah, he's not at all. He's got his heart right out there outside his chest.

[00:50:25] Oh, 100%. But you can see that Laurie's the hot headed one who will be like, I'm sorry, you're a fucking vet. Whereas Rick's the one who's like, we just kind of have to, you know, I guess we don't really get a fair read on Rick because he collapses like two minutes into that conversation.

[00:50:40] But you can see the dynamic there of, I don't know, she's the one who maybe is more of a firecracker.

[00:50:45] But I mean, I'm going to keep everything you said in mind or as much of it as I can remember with my horrible memory as we go forward. Because from what I'm thinking right now, I feel like Rick does become the kind of person who's just like, fuck everyone else except for the people I care the most about.

[00:51:01] He's not like that now, but I think that's what he becomes, you know?

[00:51:04] Yeah, definitely. He's never good at regulating it. That's the problem with Rick. He's all one thing or the other. There's no point of him that's like, maybe this was a little bit of that. He's either fool Rick or farmer Rick. Like there's no in between.

[00:51:19] All right, what's next for you?

[00:51:21] Darryl had some great lines. I missed when they kind of wrote sassy Darryl when they made them all quiet and unforthcoming. I'm just having a look through. I should have really used a highlighter on these. There's a great scene in the woods where Andrea and Carol have like the most awkward exchange ever where Carol's like, oh, I just hope that she doesn't end up like Amy.

[00:51:46] What an idiot. Come on. And Carol's like, oh, it's the worst thing I ever said. And I'm like, I mean, you'll probably say worse, but it is quite bad. It is bad. And Andrea is not happy about it. You could tell she's pissed.

[00:51:58] It's been like, what, three days? She's like, great. Thanks for bringing that up. But then Darryl comes in with like, he's, what is he comes in with? Basically, he's like, you're damn right something. And then he's like, because we're going to find that little girl. And it's like a shift because you think he's going to be like, yeah, this is bullshit because we're not going to find her.

[00:52:17] Well, Carol says we're hoping and I'm hoping and praying. And he goes, it's a waste of time, all this hoping and praying. We're going to locate that little girl. She's going to be just fine. Am I the only one Zen around here? Which is pretty funny thing for him to say.

[00:52:30] Good Lord. Good Lord.

[00:52:34] So I thought like he's, he's, I mean, he's very on point in this episode. He's for the most part, he's got a positive outlook. He's quick thinking, quick acting, adaptable, efficient solutions oriented. Like I'm definitely seeing Darryl in a new light after my full experience with The Walking Dead and The Darryl Show coming back to this. But this moment here, I mean, it was a little harsh for Carol to say that to Carol after she just said she was hoping and praying, but then to put right in there, like, it's going to be fine.

[00:53:03] And then let's do something about it. That's what he's about action, taking action. And so I felt like maybe if I was Carol, that actually might make me feel pretty good. Even though Darryl turns out to be so wrong. But in this moment.

[00:53:15] I know for Darryl man, it's just not good. He went just well, Maggie's yelling, excellent. He's like, we don't know this girl, which I just find hilarious the way he shouts it.

[00:53:28] That was the one area that I thought was maybe a little questionable. Are you talking about when Maggie comes along? Yeah.

[00:53:35] Yeah. And says, hey, yeah. Are you Laurie? Rick's, Carl's been shot. You need to come with me. And Darryl's like, oh, you can't get on that horse. We don't know this girl.

[00:53:48] I was sort of wondering, like, I guess later on in the series after they met so many assholes, that would make a lot of sense. And maybe it just shows that Darryl has met a lot of assholes in his life already. But in this moment, it seemed like, oh, yeah, I better go with this woman. Right?

[00:54:00] I, yeah, I think. Maybe it's because we know Maggie. So that's why, you know.

[00:54:05] Is Darryl misusing his street smarts? Like it's the situation where like he doesn't need to be using them. But in this, yeah, it was the way he delivered the line though was class. I really enjoyed that.

[00:54:16] I think it's because we know Maggie. That's a lot of it, too. We're like, what are you talking about, Darryl? That's Maggie. Whereas if this was season nine, we'd be like, damn right, you shouldn't get on that horse. Who's that? They could have got that information under torture.

[00:54:27] Absolutely. Look at Leah. Yeah, exactly. He then does an amazing shut up and arrow through the head to Zed, which I just loved.

[00:54:38] I love that because that Zed had just given Andrea maybe one of the worst moments of her entire life. And then he sits up and goes, and Darryl doesn't even hardly look at it. Just go shut up, whip and take care of it. Shut up! Like that.

[00:54:51] It's like the way I imagine, like, I don't know, Nico and Bodhi saying shut up to each other as siblings. Like shut up. Without shooting one another through the head with arrows. They do say you're dead a lot.

[00:55:03] And then finally, I feel like he had another great line. Oh, of course, Merle got the clap on occasion.

[00:55:13] He's going through Merle's little traveling pharmacy. Oh, that was, I remember that being one of the first moments where I really warmed to Darryl was that he's like throwing his like some kick ass painkillers at Glen.

[00:55:26] And he's like, and he's amazing. They're not generic either. Like they're properly branded, you know, Merle got the clap on occasion. Like it's just it's such a good little scene. It just made me really warm towards Darryl. I thought it was very funny.

[00:55:40] Yeah, I thought Darryl was great. When Carol, they're going to leave the RV and go to the farm and Carol doesn't want to and Darryl's like, and she goes, What if Sophia comes back? And immediately he's like, you're right. Let's stay here one more night. We'll gather supplies for her in case she comes back, rig up a big sign. Just comes up with a solution really quick.

[00:56:01] Yeah, when Darryl, when Dale says T-dog needs antibiotics. Oh, I got it right here. It's like, it's just got whatever you need. I love how he's like, you get your oily rags off my brother's motorcycle. That confirms that the Nazi bike is Merle's of course.

[00:56:19] It does confirm and it also confirms that Merle's dealer might have been Jesse Pinkman but we don't know.

[00:56:25] Yeah, he's got the crystal which is meth of the blue persuasion. He's got X which is MDMA. He's got painkillers and doxycycline which is a broad spectrum antibiotic. The meth is definitely a nod to Breaking Bad. I wonder if anyone here hearing my voice doesn't know that but in Breaking Bad it was famously the protagonist Walter White made the purest method for some reason it was blue, which everybody on the street knew that it was the best.

[00:56:54] The blue was the best and in the real world there was actually no such thing as blue meth before Breaking Bad, but I read it. Oh, there must be loads now. Yeah, they dyed it to sell to the fans of the show. Yeah.

[00:57:07] And then in season four Darryl mentions that a scrawny white guy who said I'm going to kill you bitch was giving the meth to Merle which totally sounds like Jesse Pinkman.

[00:57:16] But he also said that the dealer had children which Jesse does not and I think overall it's just a fun nod to Breaking Bad because Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul went through the prequel slash sequel series went through December 2010 but Rick wakes up in the hospital October 2010.

[00:57:36] So, can't be for reals. Maybe an alternate universe version of Jesse Pinkman.

[00:57:43] I, yeah, I would go with that. I believe that the actual meth that they have, it's not actual meth, you know, the stuff that you see on screen, the prop was literally borrowed from the Breaking Bad set as well, which is quite funny because they would have both been AMC shows.

[00:57:58] So I like it. I think they don't overplay it. It's not going to be a cross universe thing, but there's enough there. I have some right here. Jason high on meth right now.

[00:58:14] This is from Albuquerque. I went to the candy shop that made the blue meth for the show on the first season or something or whenever it first came out, it was candy. Is it tasty? Yeah, it's sugar. Would you say it's addictive?

[00:58:30] I mean, I've had this for like two years. I actually forgot I had it. So it's not that I guess it's not that good. So if the podcast goes really off the rails. So here's what I think. Yeah, no way. All right. My turn. Go for it.

[00:58:49] Okay, let's see. So T-Dog and Dale.

[00:58:52] T-Dog. I remember being really shocked when he started talking about how he's the black guy, so he'll be the first one to be lynched and that being critical of Andrea because she killed her sister and wanted to blow herself up and just wanted to take the RV and go with Dale.

[00:59:13] And I'm like, man, that just seems unlike anything we've seen from T-Dog before this. And now after too, now that we saw the rest of the series, we know that he drove the church van around and tried to save elderly people and stuff.

[00:59:29] And I it just makes me think.

[00:59:33] To pull back the veil of a time when I was on shrooms and I just got really paranoid that my two friends were out to get me. And in that moment, I realized, wow, where is this coming from? This is just a total delusion.

[00:59:47] I realized I was having a delusion. I'm like, I need to go be by myself for a little while until this passes. But it's just it's just so crazy how your mind can play tricks on you when you're not in your right mind. And he's not. He's delusional from his fever. I don't know. Maybe some of that comes from something deep down inside him. But I don't think that means that that's the real T-Dog or anything like that. You know, I don't feel critical of him at all for any of that.

[01:00:14] No, completely. And some of the things he said had a basis in truth. Like I did think it was funny when not in not in reality, but in his truth of what he's lived through as a black man. Yeah. In terms of how people have treated him. Sure. But I feel like he tries to see the best in people despite that. But it's still there.

[01:00:31] Dale is not wrong when he's like, when he says, you know, this hillbilly, this redneck, these sheriffs have been out helping you. Yeah. And so on and so forth. But I was also a bit like, Dale, calm it down just a little bit because, you know, you don't necessarily know his life experience and stuff. So like, it's also fine.

[01:00:51] But I think the reveal that it's actually the blood poisoning is a good one because it does pull you back into like, oh, that's not who he really is. That's not really necessarily really what he thinks. But it may be tapping into something that's in there somewhere. The deepest fears that we have about how we fit in with groups of people who were in. Yeah, it made sense to me that that might be where his mind would go.

[01:01:19] Yeah. And that's why it reminded me of that shrooms thing, because I really for a second thought these two friends were against me and it turns out they were. But no, I'm just kidding. And then they tried to kill me. And I was right. No, there was no basis in reality at any of that at all. And I felt it deeply for a second there. Crazy. It's funny what your brain will do to you when you're in those situations and you go, oh, yeah. Okay.

[01:01:45] So then Dale says Glenn has to get T-Dog to the farm to get antibiotics. But then Daryl has some. And so I don't really remember what happens. I guess they stay one more night and then they join the others at the farm. I guess we'll see.

[01:02:00] Glenn and T-Dog go that night. The others come the next day. Did you watch ahead? You did, didn't you?

[01:02:09] Because I'm going. Actually, I don't know when is this airing? I'm going on holiday tomorrow and I thought, well, I'll do my first watch now so that I don't have to rush it when I get back.

[01:02:18] I'm doing squid game with David and I'm sure he's watched ahead because suddenly he has much better recall of what's happening in future episodes. I haven't called him on it yet though.

[01:02:27] David, if you're listening, we're onto you, mate. We're onto you. We know what you're doing. We know what you're doing. And then T-Dog says his real name, Theodore Douglas. Theodore Douglas is a lovely name. I like it. I like it. Teddy Douglas.

[01:02:42] That's all I have. I only have notes left. I had T-Dog and Dale as well and kind of the highway stuff. The irony, it's brought out more in the next episode, but yeah, Merle saves T-Dog. Merle's gonorrhea or whatever. That's right. Sorry about that. Saves T-Dog. Great.

[01:03:00] It's a good thing that he was not careful sexually. I'm kind of amazed he took antibiotics for it, to be honest. I was like, oh, there you go.

[01:03:11] I had forgotten the moment of T-Dog spotting the dead, well, not the dead baby, but the baby carrier with the viscera on it and how upsetting that was. Me too. That's really, really horrible scene. Very gory.

[01:03:29] And he's already sort of fragile, so it hit him harder, I think. And I did laugh at the trendy pink water because I remember vitamin water being really big around about 2010, 2011. They mentioned it on Homeland as well when Homeland was a thing.

[01:03:43] Yeah, Dale and T-Dog were a good double act here. And I remember really liking Dale in this episode and I stand by that. He's good with T-Dog. He recognizes what's going on and he's the right person to have in that situation with him.

[01:03:59] He's sort of like, what are you talking about for a second there? What the fuck? No, no. Yeah. I really like those scenes actually. Yeah, I just think I want to see Irony Singleton doing something else. Yeah, I hope he's doing well. So should we go into notes?

[01:04:23] Yeah, let's do it. The opening credits are still the dead walking. You know how they used to do it instead of the walking dead, it would be the dead and then walking comes up. Oh, I didn't even know that. I forgot that they used to do that.

[01:04:36] I didn't know that. I always thought that was quite interesting. The logo, I don't know if people remember, but for the first eight seasons would just get more and more decrepit over time each season.

[01:04:49] So I forgot to look, but that was between every season. So it's got to be a little less solid than it was in season one. It was so cool.

[01:04:57] I like that Laurie was nervous about only hearing one shot. I thought that was smart because it's a good sign in your head that something is perhaps not what it seems or not right. Does anybody get caught in spider webs in this forest? I think so.

[01:05:17] I'm horrified that spiders have made that many webs and that they're that big and I will never ever go to that forest. Once again, Laurie Coulton doing some excellent final girl work with that said, poor Andrea, man. It has been a heck of a 24 hours for her.

[01:05:33] It's the same thing. I don't know if I realized this before, but she's in the RV and kind of catches that herd out of the corner of her eye. And here it's so effective because I didn't notice either. I was like, there's something weird.

[01:05:48] Why are they showing her with these spider webs? And then, oh, look, somebody's coming up next to her. Oh my God. I had the same reaction as she did.

[01:05:55] It's so good. I love the way that Laurie got angry with Rick and said, you know, if you need to scream and cry, tell God he's cruel. You do that, but your place is here.

[01:06:09] Laying down the law, she doesn't want to do this by herself, not this one. So you get the sense that Laurie has felt abandoned in the past.

[01:06:16] And we haven't really spoken about Otis and Shane going to FEMA. That funny moment where Otis takes the rifle, he shot Carl with into the car and Shane's like, are you fucking kidding?

[01:06:25] And he's like, it's the only gun I got. And the set up of the FEMA supply store, seeing that the medical supplies are there.

[01:06:34] And then we end on this cliffhanger with the Zeds everywhere and the very shaky peg on which the screen is being held, which is a very tense cliffhanger to end on.

[01:06:44] Yeah, I was thinking, oh, did I remember wrong? And is Shane about to shoot Otis right now? But no, that happens next time.

[01:06:54] I forgot. I do have a point about them when Otis is leading them to the farm in the first place, right after he shot Carl. Right. And so he's showing them how to and he's out of breath and slow and Shane's all move dickhead. It's awful.

[01:07:11] It is awful, but I don't blame him. I mean, it's totally understandable, but my God, Otis does not have a nice time with Shane today.

[01:07:18] No, but I think Shane kind of his maybe his feelings about Otis developed the same way that mine did. My first reaction was you fucking shot Carl. Why weren't you more careful?

[01:07:31] And then you realize he just shot a deer. He was hunting. Everyone desperately needs food. He didn't see Carl. What are you going to do? Yeah, he was a good person.

[01:07:39] I would not expect to see that thing. Yeah, a kid there. Was it? Laurie says I'll take it on advisement until then. He's the idiot who shot my son.

[01:07:47] I can't blame them, but I mean, I think Shane by the end he agrees to go out with Otis and he's being respectful. So I feel like he probably realizes it too. Once his emotions have calmed down, he more than makes up for it.

[01:08:02] Yeah, more than makes up for it. Well, until next week. Well, not necessarily out of choice. Yeah, that's right. We'll talk about it. But so anyway, just the fact that he's out of breath and slow does play into next week.

[01:08:15] I think that was a deliberate choice, you know, when they're going to the farm. Then Herschel comes out or no. So they get Carl in there and Herschel comes out and says he only got one bullet fragment out, but there are five more to go.

[01:08:31] I would. My first thought was, why don't you take advantage of Carl being unconscious and get all the other ones? But then he says there's internal bleeding. And if he moves, he might sever an artery and they need a respirator. So the only reason why I bring that up is that's why they decide to go to this FEMA shelter at this high school federal emergency management agency.

[01:08:51] And Otis volunteers to go with him because he used to be volunteer EMT. And I mean, yeah, at this point, I'm just like, yeah, he's just a good person. He's trying to do everything he can to help this kid that he accidentally hurt. To make it right.

[01:09:07] And at the high school, I think at the time this seemed like a big deal with all those zombies. Now, it doesn't look like much now, right? You're just like, oh, yeah, zombies. But they are still fast. They're chasing them. I think they're still fast.

[01:09:22] They are fast and Shane does a smart thing with the flares. Yeah. But then when they open the door, it's like, oh, they don't care so much about the flares anymore. They're right here.

[01:09:33] No, it's like flares are food, flares are food, fireworks are barbecue, fireworks are barbecue. I know what I pick. So that's I just had a little bit about them. But for my notes, this episode was written by Glenn Mazzara. I think maybe it was his first episode. Maybe.

[01:09:51] Maybe there was one last season. No, he wrote last week's as well. I feel like we might have spoken. I might be wrong. I don't know. Anyway. I'll go back and listen and write in.

[01:09:59] He famously becomes the showrunner in the second half of this season after Darabont and AMC part ways and remain showrunner through season three. We also interviewed him a few times. It was great.

[01:10:13] And Glenn is calling the Zeds walkers now, not geeks anymore. He says Andrea got attacked by Walker. Yes, she does.

[01:10:22] We're done with geeks. And then the only other note I had is that last week when we were talking about different churches in The Walking Dead, did we mention Pope at all? Or have we just tried to block him out?

[01:10:36] No, I mentioned Gabriel, but not Pope. Yeah, I must have blocked Pope from my memory. Post my least favorite thing ever. So I don't blame us. Every time we see a guy in the wild with one of those hats, Peter's like, he's got Pope hat.

[01:10:50] Every time he says that you have to wonder if it's that hat or the big pointy one. Yeah, I'm like, before I turn around, are we talking like Pope or Pope? Do you have some trivia?

[01:11:04] Yes, IMDB deep dive. I've covered some of them already. The meth was borrowed from the Breaking Bad set. The cigarettes that T-Dog picks up are morally bland brand which are famous because they are what the smoking man smokes in the X-Files. They're not a real brand.

[01:11:22] They show up in other TV shows. It's Maggie's first appearance. When Dale says he is 64, Jeffrey DeMunn is 64, was 64 at the time of filming. The title bloodletting. Now I thought bloodletting was something you did with leeches. I thought it was about the blood transfusion.

[01:11:50] Apparently another meaning of bloodletting is a violent wounding during conflict, which is perhaps more relevant to what's happened to Carl because of the kind of conflict between the living and the dead.

[01:12:01] And in terms of the timeline, we're still on day 67 and Rick has been awake for eight days. So it's been a time. I feel like they chose that title bloodletting because Rick is giving all his blood to Carl. I like that there's two meanings to it.

[01:12:21] And I don't have an Only on the Walking Dead this week. Do you?

[01:12:27] Only on the Walking Dead, would you be grateful to find a vet to operate on your child? Although I would say nobody in this episode is grateful for that. So perhaps it's not even an Only on the Walking Dead. They should be. They blooming well should be.

[01:12:46] I don't know. Only on the Walking Dead would a woman ride up on a horse and smack somebody in the head with a bat and you would instantly fall in love with her. No, that would be pretty much any show. There's been an accident. It's my favorite line.

[01:13:08] Obvious threat to untold numbers of citizens. The people he kills get up and kill. Are they slow moving, Chief? They're all messed up. This is a Walking Dead cast news update.

[01:13:51] So Entertainment Weekly interviewed Pollyanna McIntosh, who's about to reprise her role as Jadis for the upcoming Walking Dead. The ones who live.

[01:14:02] Nice. And before I get into the interview, I realized that there's some people who probably thought, you know, they keep saying that World Beyond was pretty good. Maybe I'll watch it at some point.

[01:14:15] And so if you're one of those people, but you never got around to it, I just wanted to remind you about that because it's all about the CRM, which is the organization that kidnapped Rick and Jadis, who was pretty shit in the Walking Dead, was pretty great in World Beyond.

[01:14:32] You gave him more context to her. Yeah. And yeah, she is much more interesting and watchable. I thought so. She spoke in complete sentences. It was great. Without spoiling, there is no performance art. If performance art is not your jam, you are in luck.

[01:14:51] Yeah. And we especially thought season two was really good, especially after the first episode. So if you're like, all right, I'll give it a shot. You watch the first episode. Nah, forget it. That was no good.

[01:15:02] I think episode two on was pretty great. Better than Walking Dead was at the time, if I remember right, or maybe better than some Walking Dead. And anyway, it gives you a lot of context for the ones who live. So I mean, I'm sure they're going to try to make the ones who live so you wouldn't have to have seen that.

[01:15:19] But also the big bad in the ones who live, who's played by Terry O'Quinn, who was Locke in Lost. He was mentioned a lot in World Beyond, though never shown. To the extent that people thought he might be Rick. Yeah, that's right.

[01:15:37] I'd say it's really worth like if you want to, it's what December, we've got six weeks. Watch it. Like what else you do? If you're at all curious.

[01:15:45] Yeah, I mean, if you're sort of like, I don't really want to, but they say it's great. So I'll watch it and I'll be mad if it's not that great, then don't watch it then. We don't want that responsibility.

[01:15:55] I can't be doing with that in my life right now. But if you are curious and you have you thought about it now would be the time because it's going to give you context for Rick and Michonne series. So all that said, Entertainment Weekly asked Pollyanna McIntosh.

[01:16:10] So how and when did you find out that you were going to be able to play Jadis again? And now your third different Walking Dead show?

[01:16:16] She says, yeah, right. It was about five months before Jadis left The Walking Dead that I knew she was going to carry on. So I've been looking forward excitedly to this leg of the journey for all that time.

[01:16:25] And then World Beyond was just an added beautiful bonus where I got to come in and play her then and bring another crazy haircut to the world, which was my stupid decision because then I had to do it again for this one. I was like, oh, shit, we have to go back to dumb and dumber.

[01:16:40] It's a bad haircut. I know she says I did that because I wanted her to be like Joan of Arc. I wanted her to be on this mission that to her was essential and the right way to go.

[01:16:52] I wanted to make it clear in the story from World Beyond and now in The Ones Who Live that in her eyes, what she's doing is the right thing. And I also thought it gave it a bit of a military edge with that shave.

[01:17:04] I wanted to give a nod to the original Jadis because I'd been Anne in between who was very different character. And I wanted to say, yeah, Jadis is back. Don't get comfortable. So, yeah, that was good. It looked awful, but it was a statement.

[01:17:19] She's so great. Like I've seen I've done panels with her and I always say I just say the same thing. They're great, but they're not all great. But she is. But very cool.

[01:17:30] She had a couple more. So they said, what was it like being on back on set with Andrew Lincoln and some of your Walking Dead family?

[01:17:35] She says, oh, it was just wicked. It was truly like the bands back together. Being that character and getting to connect with another actor and getting to fully go there is just the greatest joy of my work. And Andy is one of those actors who's fully present. Unlike Rick. No, I'm just kidding.

[01:17:53] Unlike Rick, his character.

[01:17:56] He's fully there. He's fully in the scene. He's fully in the character. Anything can happen. There's such a freedom to it. And so getting to see him again was just a delight and getting to work with him again in those scenes. It was like they changed every time. The more pissed off or upset or disappointed or worn down. He played it. The more I had to question is Jadis what I was doing. The tougher and more macho he played it.

[01:18:17] Played it. The more I thought, fuck you, you arrogant little prick. It's not all about you. There's work to be done here. And I'm not. And I'm talking about the character. Obviously, Andy could never be an arrogant little prick. So that was just the most wonderful reminder of the days on the Walking Dead working together. That makes me feel kind of excited to see them.

[01:18:34] But since like they have a nice little relationship, I like that.

[01:18:37] And last they said, anything else you can say about this show and how it's similar to or different from the original series? She says the setting and the locations are very different. The spirit is all there. I'd say it's a lot of action. It's a lot of pathos. It's a whole lot of love. Look at that. That's a greeting card. But that's what it is. And to me, it's very much in the spirit of the original. It's just that we've never seen Rick in this situation before.

[01:19:02] There you go. And, you know, we've been a little like.

[01:19:06] A little worried that it might not be great, but I do think that the CRM stuff has been mostly pretty good in the Walking Dead history, you know, spent on even on fear. The CRM stuff was good. Anyway, we'll see.

[01:19:23] I would agree with that. Yeah, actually, to be fair, a couple of my favorite episodes of fear low bar were CRM related.

[01:19:32] So I forgot to mention this last time when I was doing my last of us news, but last of us developer Naughty Dog, they had announced this multiplayer standalone game in the last of us universe that looked super cool and was going to be set in San Francisco.

[01:19:49] But it was canceled. They decided to cancel it, they said, because they didn't want to have to devote all the resources to what it takes to maintain that type of a game because they want to put those resources into creating more standalone single player narrative focused games, which I actually like the narrative focused ones better.

[01:20:09] I know Eric, a.k.a. Mr. Blog was pretty bummed out by this because he loves those. The multiplayer last of us. So that was kind of a shock because they'd been talking that up for like a couple of years and then they just canceled it.

[01:20:24] And San Francisco as well. Yeah, there was one like maybe piece of concept art that showed the Golden Gate Bridge all fucked up and everything. It's all fucked up.

[01:20:35] And then last, just a little piece of news, but in a trailer for the upcoming new remastered version of the last of us part two, Ellie's wearing a space suit with a badge that says E Williams. And so people think that's the first in game confirmation of her last name, William. So she's Ellie Williams.

[01:20:54] Aww, Ellie Williams. Cute. All right, that's it for news. Let's move on to Listener Bones, Growns and Grunts. Tiege Mateel, friend of the show says dang, Shane came through for Rick this episode. Not wrong.

[01:21:14] Last week we, Tiege sent in a voice message and, uh, I'm trying to remember what it was about. It was about whether Rick would later on would have been thinking, you know, maybe I should have gone went ahead and let myself get blown up at the CDC.

[01:21:39] And so I was like, passionate response to that. I, what I forgot to do was thank Tiege for such a thoughtful message because it was great. And I just came in barreling through.

[01:21:50] And then also he had another question at the beginning of that message that we didn't answer, which was about whether we think we saw the moment in last week's episode where Rick realized that Laurie was with Shane.

[01:22:01] So he thought maybe Rick when he saw like, I think Shane and Laurie just chatting and stuff that he had that realization at that point. What do you think?

[01:22:10] I think you're onto something Tiege, because it was the world's least subtle conversation. Like a paper thin RV. So no, I'm with you. I think that is very likely the point. I think he probably picked up on some things prior to that. But yeah, I think that is the key moment.

[01:22:29] I could see him being the kind of guy who and maybe this goes to your points about Rick earlier would sort of have suspicions about that, but just not bother saying it. Yeah, just be like, Oh, okay, that's over now and not even confronting Laurie about it. But uh,

[01:22:46] It's almost like he's British. Andrew Lincoln suggested that. He's like, I just think Rick wouldn't really want to talk about that. And I don't want to talk about it either. I don't want to talk about it either. Like, on you go.

[01:22:59] But I don't know. I think it could be, but I'm not sure. And it makes me try to remember if we ever saw a confrontation about that. I can't remember, you know, where Laurie and Rick actually talk about it or something.

[01:23:14] There's a point where she either tells him or it's about the baby and he's like, Yeah, I know. It's just like, I've known.

[01:23:23] We see when he says that he thinks the baby is Shane's, but that I think there is a point before that where it's more overtly talked about that she was with Shane. Yeah, but we'll see.

[01:23:36] Dabolino Bob Grippy says take a drink every time Shane does the head rub. Oh, I wasn't even looking for that. Was he doing it a lot? I'm sure he was. Bob would be so drunk. I saw him do it in The Bear. He did it once.

[01:23:51] Yeah, the Bernthal. The Bernthal head rub.

[01:23:54] Val Leroy says I forgot about the blue meth. Great to see a reference to Breaking Bad and I just can't get over how condescending Laurie was to dear Herschel. She just gets on my nerves. I never was a fan of that character.

[01:24:07] Darryl was great when he said shut up to the Walker and then just shot it in the head. I watched that scene a few times. Oh, yeah, I listened to the first podcast from this episode again. It was awesome to hear Karen.

[01:24:17] I've only gone back and listened to one and it was pretty fun to listen to. It was one of the season one ones. I forget which one. But anyway, thank you Val.

[01:24:27] Dre Manoni says I enjoyed the rewatch of this episode. I forgot about Maggie riding in on her horse to save the day. I was paying a lot of attention to her and Glenn since that was their first time crossing paths. Me too. It broke my heart a little knowing what comes and seeing Maggie with a bat shivers went up my spine.

[01:24:44] Hard to find humor in the show, but I laughed out loud when Darryl shot the Zed who sat up and says shut up. I forgot that this episode ends where it does. I felt like I wanted to keep watching, but I'm trying not to speed ahead. Oh, that's nice.

[01:25:00] You and me both stray Gemma Hall, our friend says Maggie on a horse. I love her and Glenn's first interactions. It just breaks my heart watching Rick carry Carl across the field is so heartbreaking and shocking. I had only just had my first son around this time. And I remember the feeling of horror watching it and then watching Carl suffer.

[01:25:20] It's nice to meet the green family who will soon become so pivotal to the show, who will become so pivotal to the show. The farm is beautiful and serene, which gives it a sharp contrast to what's happening elsewhere and possibly even in their barn. Carl is such a survivor and it makes me angry now in retrospect.

[01:25:37] Yeah, me too. And that really the fact that Carl is shot and dying and Sophia's missing. It just makes all of this feel like, fuck, you know, like, God, I hope they can do something. I remember watching the first time without those two things, it would be much different. Absolutely. Those are the two things.

[01:26:02] Chandra Wright says, I thought it was a symphony of an episode. Everyone played their part beautifully. The friendship between Rick and Shane comes through so clearly and is quite believable. I agree. Other than the car talk in season one, episode one, I think this is the best representation we get of that. I agree with that too. Yeah. Even more than that. Maybe Andrew Lincoln does a hell of a job playing a traumatized parent. And I get choked up every time I watch him asking Herschel to help his son.

[01:26:28] I appreciate that the writers used T-Dog's fever induced ramblings to acknowledge his normally precarious position as the lone black character in their horror show. All my best to everyone for a safe and happy holiday. That's a great way to put that. Yeah, it makes me like that even more.

[01:27:28] I hate how it ends though. Great Daryl moments of the episode. Number one, going through Merle's medicine. Oh, got the clap on occasion. Number two, when everyone is whining about the search. Am I the only one zen around here? Good lord. Three, the zombie sitting up and Daryl looking over saying shut up, then shoots in the head with the infamous crossbow. Overall, I thought the episode moved a bit slow, but I still enjoyed it. I hope you both and all your listeners have an amazing and safe holiday and have a great holiday.

[01:27:58] Don't get bit. Thanks, Becky. Thanks, Becky. All right. We got a few calls. Here's Sam from Boston.

[01:28:09] Hi, it's Sam from Boston. Episode two, we're introduced to Herschel. Oh, he's one of my favorite characters. It was so nice. Like just bringing him back into this world again for me. And then we see Maggie, who I forgot her first line was dead.

[01:28:27] I forgot about that. But then she goes on to be a badass like we know she is. And riding on that horse into the clearing like Xena warrior princess just clobbering the Walker and saving Glenn and everyone else. I mean, no wonder he fell in love with her. And then little sweet Beth. Oh, my goodness.

[01:28:46] And for characters that don't have a romance on the show. Shane was a really supportive husband to Rick this episode. I mean, right. I was kind of caught off guard. I didn't remember this, but they were like, really like physically close, which I guess you had to do for like the camera frame or something.

[01:29:06] But he would like lovingly wipe the blood off of Rick's face and comfort him a lot and help him with his grief and his guilt and all this stuff. Really being nicer to Rick than I have found Lori to be either before or after this episode. And then like even when they were like kneeling down afterwards, when Herschel said to Shane, he can't leave more than 50 feet from this bed. I'm like you tell his supportive boyfriend that

[01:29:36] And then they're like outside talking and then they're like grabbing at each other and being really vulnerable and lean their heads together. And I'm like, did they kiss? Are they gonna kiss? I don't remember this. And then they jumped back when Herschel opened the door. What in the fan fiction?

[01:29:53] That's true. You know, they jump back as if they didn't want it looked like they were caught in the middle of something. But then when the camera turns the other way, it's like Otis and Beth are right there. Like they witnessed the whole thing. So they just like to watch or something. I don't know.

[01:30:10] I thought that was really interesting. And like, I mean, I guess the writers knew they were like, well, we have to have someone be nice to Rick because this is every parent's worst nightmare. And we know Lori is not going to be this nice to Rick. So we have to give him someone to be nice to him. So yeah, I just thought that was really interesting. And I kept laughing at the beginning and the opening shots of this episode, where like first we see the flashback with Lori where she is, you know,

[01:30:38] she's like, my husband loves me too much to be mean to me. Which is just real weird. It's like, okay, Lori, that's very unrelatable. That's not the all right. Okay, go be your toxic self. I guess it's supposed to be like, I guess they didn't have problems or they didn't value what they had until it was too late or something. I don't know. I'm not a fan of her character and I never have been.

[01:31:06] So it just sort of landed the wrong way with me. But and then, you know, seeing the opening scene with Andrew Lincoln running with Chandler Riggs, and they're just like trying to get to that farm. All I kept imagining was the behind the scenes shooting of just like the director in the field in the Georgia heat yelling, Andy, run faster. No, no, no, faster. Chandler, look more dead. There we go. Reset. Let's do it again.

[01:31:36] Poor actors. They did such a phenomenal job, but I can imagine how awful that must have been. And just you know, I guess the scene where T-Dog was saying all the inside part outside because of his fever and then Dale with his indignant judgy eyebrows just you know, like what? What? That's terrible.

[01:31:57] Terrible. It may have been nicest things, but there's facts in there, Dale, whether you like it or not. Oh, and I did Google that CGI deer from season seven. Oh, I forgot. I blocked that out of my memory. That was awful. Who had a grudge against the show to make sure that that got out there? Oh, goodness. So I'm gonna try and forget about it again. I can't wait for the podcast. Thanks, guys.

[01:32:24] Sam Sam's gonna be on the Zed head show this month. Patreon exclusive podcast where we're going to talk about our favorite things from 2023 movies and shows and games. Me and Wendy and that's excellent. Nice year round up will be her first appearance on there. All right, here is Gloria.

[01:32:47] Hi, Jason and Lucy. It's Gloria from Salem. This is for the Walking Dead season two episode two bloodletting. So ironic that opening scene Laurie telling Kyle about Rick being shot. Cut to present day Rick running with a shot Kyle in his arms. I remember being so petrified as a parent watching that the first time around.

[01:33:12] Yeah, at least I knew how it's gonna turn out this time. And watching little Chandler Riggs. Oh my god scream out was so happy again. Yeah, he and Scott Wilson again. So wonderful. Loved that actor. I really miss him in our world.

[01:33:28] Oh, Darrell. How do I love you? We're gonna find that little girl. Am I the only one who's in around here? Shane and Otis going to get supplies not gonna end well. I did not want to watch these scenes again. No frickin way. I muted my TV and even fast forward a little. I couldn't do it. Maggie making her grand answer entrance. I loved it.

[01:33:59] Well, that's it. That's all I get time for today. I hope both of you have a very happy Christmas with your families and enjoy. Also, be good. But if you can't be good, be careful. Love you guys.

[01:34:14] Thanks. Is there any scene in The Walking Dead that you just won't watch again? Like you refuse?

[01:34:24] I'm gonna struggle with season seven. Episode one. Yeah, like I'm gonna struggle with that. I was thinking about that today. I was like, Oh, I did only rewatch the zombie autopsy once. Yeah. I'm sure there will some that will come to me. But yeah, I think I'm gonna struggle with the blend. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:34:44] I know. I'm weirdly kind of looking forward to that just to see how it hits me this time. No pun intended. All right, one more call from Randy.

[01:34:58] Hey, Jason and Lucy. This is Randy with another no prize Colin where I try and explain something in The Walking Dead that doesn't make sense using their in universe rules. So why are there corpses and walkers inside of the cars? Well, the obvious answer is because then people have to dodge cars.

[01:35:19] But my no prize answer is there are people who got sick in the beginning and died while evacuating. So bear with me in fear of The Walking Dead. It's implied that lots of people are getting sick and dying as the outbreak was beginning.

[01:35:35] So some of those sick people would have been among the people evacuating. And there's many reasons you'd stay in your car. You assume traffic will eventually start back up all your stuffs in there. And where the hell else are you gonna go? But the big reason is zombies.

[01:35:53] Zombie would try and get into a car forever if there was someone moving around inside. Early on a single zombie clawing at your window while you're stuck in traffic would have been enough motivation for most people to stay put. I won't get out of my car if I see a person holding a clipboard too close by, let alone a zombie or a few zombies.

[01:36:16] So as the sick person inside waits, hoping the zombies leave, they'd feel worse and they'd have less ability to leave. And eventually they die. Those people would reanimate and the zombies outside would wander off.

[01:36:31] It's got me thinking about a no prize for the early variants, but I'll save that for next time. So that's my no prize answer. Feel free to argue it, but I'm covering my ears now so I won't hear it. Blah blah blah blah blah blah. Bye. Oh, Randy.

[01:36:51] I like that a lot. But the one question I have for you, Randy, is why are they not reanimated when we see them? And I hadn't even thought to ask that myself later because or before because actually whether they were bitten or not, we know that everyone has it.

[01:37:14] Although that hasn't been revealed in the series yet and maybe they didn't even, we don't know if they realized it. You know what I mean? The writers. We don't know if they knew that's what Jenner said. Really interesting. I hadn't thought of that either.

[01:37:28] Why Randy? Randy's not listening. Randy get your friend Margaret to phone in. She'll know. She'll know. Margaret knows.

[01:37:38] All right. That is our show episode 557. Thanks for listening, everybody. Hope you're enjoying the rewatch. Next episode will be The Walking Dead season two episode three. Save the last one and we will have Karen Sheehan with us for that one.

[01:37:58] It's gonna be a goodie. I'm excited. If you want to write in or leave us a message about it, a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at podcasttica.com.

[01:38:10] While you're at podcasttica.com, please check out our other podcasts. We're starting back up with What If, which comes out tomorrow as I'm recording this, although by the time you hear it actually should already be on.

[01:38:23] I love that series. It's a cartoon, so maybe people didn't even think to watch it, but it's just what if the concept is in the Marvel Cinematic Universe? What if one thing had changed and they animated in this really kind of adult dark style?

[01:38:41] They use a lot of the same voice actors or ones that sound just like them. And the writing's really fun and good. And there's one episode that's all just zombie superheroes, you know? I love that.

[01:38:54] Yeah, it's really great. And so I don't have time to host it this year, but Kirk Manley is going to be hosting all of them with his friend Lenny. They go way back and they're both big comic book fans. So that's coming up. Oh, that would be brilliant.

[01:39:09] And this episode you're listening to is made possible by Patreon supporters like Susan Singfield, who pledged their support at patreon.com slash Jason Kabassi. So thank you to Susan. Susan and all other Patreon pledgers get ad free versions of all these episodes. Excellent.

[01:39:28] All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. Don't get bit Chandra Wright. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Bye.