561: "Secrets" (TWD S2E6 Rewatch)

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Huh... Podcastica! Oh, that pissed you off. Come on, girl, you got walkers all around you. They're in the woods. They're in the RV. You gotta need more than a damn screwdriver, you know? Stop badgering me! No, you're too damn emotional. You need to shut it down.

[00:00:12] Take all that guilt, take that fear of being pissed off, take it out. Right, because you're so calm. See, I can be pissed off, I can be whistling Dixie and I always hit the target, but you, God, you're so calm. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not.

[00:00:20] I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I just shoot like a damn girl. And you stand here, you point your weapon, point it like you point your finger. Do not think about it. I'm talking about muscle memory, girl! Muscle memory!

[00:00:41] Now go on, shoot that son of a bitch! He's coming for you! He's eight feet away! He's nine feet! He's nine feet away, right there! That's the walker that got Amy! Now you shoot that son of a bitch! Shoot him! Hey Zed Heads, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:24] I'm Jason. And I'm Lucy. And this is the Cast of Us episode 561. And this episode, we can't tell you what we're covering because it's a secret. But I'll play the part of Glenn and tell you that we're covering Walking Dead season two episodes like secrets! Sorry! Oh Glenn!

[00:01:48] So let's get into it. Before we do, I want to read a message from one of the listeners, David, not the guy who wrote The Wire, Simon, which is exactly how he wrote it. He says, Jason and Lucy and special guest hosts, you've been amazing today.

[00:02:05] They should have you on again for season four, episode eight, Too Far Gone. Maybe if he means Dina? I'm not sure if that's what he means. I think so. Yeah. And what I don't remember what that episode is. Maybe it's a Daryl episode. Anyway, he goes on.

[00:02:19] Anyway, Jace, I've been silently lurking for at least a decade and I finally have the need to write in as you and Lucy do the rewatch. Is there any chance of you doing a quick run through of what happened in the episode? Nope. Sorry. Okay, let's go.

[00:02:35] It's a secret. No, he goes, it's been years since I've watched these episodes and your five to three points plus notes usually cover a lot, but I'm sure I'm forgetting everything that's not being mentioned.

[00:02:46] I can't be the only one who's listening to the rewatch without partaking in rewatching, right? Yeah, I don't think you are. Even if the answer is no, I'll keep listening just in case the next episode is finally the one where Karen leaps back home. Don't get bit.

[00:02:59] Karen, you should watch squid game. Karen and David and I just covered the final episode of squid game and I just published it yesterday. Yeah. But she's so sick of The Walking Dead. She's allergic to it now. It's crazy.

[00:03:12] She might come back on if we cover a movie or something. Does she get bit? Yeah, she's a zombie. But yeah, David, I think that's a good idea. I mean, I just pulled the summary from Wikipedia.

[00:03:24] It's pretty short, so I don't know if this is going to be exhaustive enough for you, but hopefully it will jog people's memory as to what's going on in the episode. Would you like to read it, Lucy? Yeah, it's Wikipedia, baby.

[00:03:38] Okay, so The Walking Dead season two, episode six, secrets. Glenn sits nervously on the secrets of Laurie's pregnancy and the barn walkers. He eventually spills them to Dale who learns that some of the barn walkers are Herschel's family.

[00:03:51] Glenn and Maggie return to the pharmacy to retrieve supplies for Laurie, but Maggie is attacked by a walker. Shane threatens Dale when he probes the story of Otis's death. Laurie grapples alone with her pregnancy, but Rick finds out and confronts her.

[00:04:05] She reveals the affair with Shane and Rick accepts it. I accept that that happened. I accept that to be true. Citation not needed. Thank you, Wikipedia. So what did you think of this one? Yes, good. It's the first Angela Kang episode. Oh, I didn't even realize.

[00:04:22] Yeah, I only realized on my second watch. And I think that is a point unto itself. So I'll hold my thoughts on that. But no, I think it's a good, strong episode for the season. I liked the things and themes that it touched upon.

[00:04:39] There were some moments that made me laugh. Some moments that I found really emotionally affecting and all over. I'm excited to talk about it. How about you? You got me thinking about the Kang thing, but I'll save it because you said you had a point.

[00:04:53] So I liked it. I can see watching this why Romero, George Romero said, Oh, Walking Dead is just a soap opera because it felt very soap opera-ish. I can totally sympathize with my 2011 self that was getting impatient with all of this angst and never ending search for Sophia.

[00:05:16] And the character progression is also a very slow build. I think Frank Darabont, who I think has only done movies aside from The Walking Dead, probably thought of this season as one long movie. So we're just seeing it like a stretched out movie as far as character progression.

[00:05:32] All that said, it's the same thing as all the episodes this season because I've come to care for the characters a lot and know what happens and miss some of the ones who've

[00:05:41] been gone longer that I'm just able to let all that go and really appreciate it and enjoy it and not worry about. I don't even care about zombies that much anymore. So yeah, I'm like, yeah, it's fun and it's funny, like you said, and interesting to

[00:05:54] see the interactions and everything. So we went to the cinema last night to see Mean Girls. How was that? It was good. It was good. But beforehand there was an advert for If, the John Krasinski film that has Kayleigh Fleming in it.

[00:06:10] And as soon as she came on screen, I just got really teary and was like, Oh, I love her. We love her. And then I leaned over to Peter and I was like, I'm so glad that Laurie didn't abort her. I just watched that scene. I know, right?

[00:06:25] That's called If. We haven't talked about it. It's John Krasinski's directing it, right? And Steve Carell, I think, plays the voice of this imaginary friend of Kayleigh Fleming's or something. Yeah, I think so. She looks so grown up. She does. It looks cute.

[00:06:41] I am not sure when it's coming out pretty soon. Do you know? I seem to be like maybe this summer. Oh, for a while. OK. Yeah, I probably need to go borrow somebody's kids to legit go and see it at the cinema or go myself. I don't know.

[00:06:55] I think people recognize what a star she is because it seems like kind of a big movie. And I just think it's cool that Krasinski, who played Jim in The Office, is directing a movie with Steve Carell in it. So they're still hanging out.

[00:07:08] It's great. It's so great. Honestly, it was so good. I just yeah, I would usually trailers don't get me emotional, but I was like, I love her. All right. What do you got for your first point?

[00:07:21] Well, let's talk about let's talk about the Kang thing, because I was like, I started thinking about what. Can we map the characteristics of this episode onto like what made the Kang era good and

[00:07:33] speaking generally, I think that what made the Kang era things that I enjoyed about the era and from what I can recall, you also enjoyed but correct me if I'm wrong, are. Satisfying character beats. Good developed relationships between characters that made kind of logical sense and

[00:07:55] understanding of the cast and characters she was working with and not leaving things hanging unnecessarily for resolution, for dramatic effect. And I think we have all of that in this episode. I thought the beats between characters were really strong. I thought the development of Glenn especially was great.

[00:08:18] It made me really sad that we didn't get Kang era Glenn because I think she writes him really well in this episode and his relationship with Maggie in particular. I think she shows a great understanding. Now I'm bummed. Right. They could have done some flashbacks or something.

[00:08:34] Get Steven Yeun back on there. I was just like, oh, because I was like Glenn is so good and Maggie and the way she is with Glenn in this episode is so good. We see a really layered confrontation between Rick and Laurie that's not your typical.

[00:08:48] Reveal scene because it's anticlimactic because Rick already kind of knew that. I remember that surprised me when I watched this for the first time, but now knowing the way that. Kang plays things like the Dante reveal and other sort of longer things that we were like,

[00:09:05] oh, this is going to drag out for a while. She actually tends to not leave you hanging, have it resolved and then see what the fallout is, which I really enjoyed. And by the way, just those words that you just said, the Dante reveal just make me go,

[00:09:19] how fucking great is The Walking Dead later on compared to this in some ways? Like that was such a great moment. There's no moments like that right now. No, not until Shane. I don't know. There was a crutch grab. Yeah, that's true.

[00:09:34] That was quite upsetting for everyone involved. Pretty intense. I think there's also a soft touch of humor to this episode that I thought was quite Kang era-y. And yeah, it just made me it made me excited that she's now part of the show fabric from

[00:09:51] this point on. And I think it shows the promise of why she ended up the showrunner when she did and the things that she managed to do with it that were strong and let the show

[00:10:03] go out on high, despite a bit in the middle where it really, really struggled for a bit. And there were, yeah, there's some great lines in it. Like with Andrea says to Shane that he's a dick sometimes and Shane's just like, I

[00:10:20] acknowledge that. And I'm like, oh, you acknowledge that you're a dick sometimes. Okay. Basically saying, yep, deal with it. Yep. I just see Andrea's like, oh, yes. Oh, okay. Glenn and Dale, you're old, you know things. There's Walkers in the Barn, Laurie's Pregnant. I am just wonderfully written.

[00:10:40] Even that moment at the start where Carl, who might be a little psycho misogynist at this point, he's like, you're just a housewife to his mom. And she's like, am I punk? I know there's something quite funny about that.

[00:10:50] Darryl saying, next time you shoot me, you best pray I'm dead also made me laugh. Yeah, I just I thought there was a nice touch to this episode that when I saw it was Kang

[00:11:03] that had written it, it made a lot of sense to me that that was her. And yeah, I don't know. What do you think now that you know it was her that wrote the episode? Does it change your, I don't know, does it change your opinion or?

[00:11:17] I love it. All this, I agree with pretty much everything you're saying about her strengths and yeah, I can see now that you're saying it, some of those popping up in this episode, what

[00:11:27] you said about the Laurie and Rick conversation not going exactly the way you think it would. But I, in my opinion, feeling more right, you know, then it would have been if it would have been the predictable thing or the stereotypical thing.

[00:11:42] But I think also another thing with her is it's kind of related to what you're saying about character beats and stuff, but just a warmth that comes through in her writing. And especially in contrast to some of Gimple's not so great tendencies of being opaque and

[00:12:00] weird and cold and undecipherable, you know, when because like we've talked about before, those two contrasts were so strong in the finale, like so striking because you got a full Kang episode with a little Gimple at the end there that was so different. A little touch of Gimple.

[00:12:18] Like what happened there? Very jarring. Yeah, I mean, I stand for a lot of Gimple stuff. I think without him, who knows if The Walking Dead would have reached the heights it did. I always want to add that in there,

[00:12:30] but he did have some flaws. So anyway, yeah, I think it's great and I think it does help me. I already like the episode and you're right, it had some great little moments and

[00:12:41] things, but I appreciate it even more now that you said all that. So that's really cool. It was the two other lines that I thought were funny were Glenn asking Maggie if she was buying his silence with fruit. She says, no, there's also jerky, which

[00:12:53] I thought was really made me laugh. And Glenn saying that he sucks at lying. He can't even play poker. It's too much like lying. Yeah, he's so good. Like he's such a good person, Glenn.

[00:13:04] Yeah. And Steven Yeun is so good at playing it in a way where you could see through the writing that it could be goofier and if you just read the lines in a different way, you wouldn't have as much

[00:13:21] respect for Glenn. He does seem a little hapless, but still there's a potential running through him, which Maggie speaks to in this episode. But I mean, he's so good at it. And also now that

[00:13:35] Steven Yeun, I've seen him in many other things playing many different types of characters, then it becomes clear to me like back then, I think probably a lot of us just sort of felt like,

[00:13:44] yes, Steven Yeun is probably just like Glenn, but Steven Yeun doesn't want us to think that he has said so to me on stage in a panel, like maybe I'm not as much like Glenn as everyone thinks. He said

[00:13:55] something like that. But now it feels as much as he's so good at it and I believe the character of Glenn watching it, I think of it more as a role than I did back then. You know, he's playing a

[00:14:07] role. He's playing nervous. It doesn't mean Steven Yeun is a nervous person in real life. And he looks so much younger. He's grown up a lot. Like he must have been in his early 20s here and

[00:14:17] now he's late 30s, early 40s. He's now he's 63. And he's won an EGOT. He hasn't won an EGOT, but I think he's won an EG. Has he won an Emby and a Golden Globe? Or was it an Emmy and a

[00:14:32] Curtis Choice Award? I don't remember. He's won loads of stuff. I think he's just won a Golden Globe and an Emmy, right? For his role. All he needs to do is the Oscar and the Tony and he'll

[00:14:41] be an EGOT baby. Get on it. I don't know. Did Minari win anything? It should have. It got nominated. I think he'll get an Oscar within the next five years. He should. All right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do it. We got some stuff on him in the news, but

[00:14:59] I'll go on to talk about Andrea and Shane. I'm much more interested in now than I was, I think back then. I like this progression, watching her in target practice, being the sharpshooter that she also is in the comics,

[00:15:18] which I love and smiling at Shane. And I'm definitely noticing a lot more of how it was a buildup to their crotch grab in the car. It didn't come quite as much out of nowhere

[00:15:30] as I remembered it. I also think I know we disagreed about Rick matchmaking earlier. I think Rick was hinting this episode when he's like, seems like she needs the advanced class, Shane. Maybe you can stay back after. I'm like, Rick's the matchmaker. He knows.

[00:15:44] I don't see it. I think he's got an agenda. He's like, get away from my wife, please. Oh, maybe so. Yeah. So and I kind of wonder if this means well, I'm guessing the writers didn't

[00:15:57] have this pairing in mind until season two. But within the story, you could wonder, oh, I wonder if Andrea liked Shane back at the quarry too. But she knew that he was probably with Lori, so he didn't. And then when Rick came back, she was like, yes.

[00:16:12] So then the scene where Shane's swinging this log and trying to frazzle her, you know, disrupt her while she's shooting it and saying some really off color things like you're too emotional. And, you know, now right there, that's the Walker that got Amy. Now you shoot that son

[00:16:33] of a bitch. Shoot him. I thought until he said the Amy thing, this is awesome because you want to throw her off guard in the zombie apocalypse if you're trained. I mean, this is, I feel like

[00:16:46] a compliment. Somebody's ready for the next level training. That's how what Shane is saying. You showed that you're a sharpshooter. Now let's really give you a situation to deal with so you

[00:16:57] can see if you can do that same thing when the shit hits the fan. And I think it was awesome. And she gets upset and walks away and he agrees. He crossed a line when he brought Amy into it,

[00:17:10] so do I. You didn't need to do that. And she goes, you're a real dick sometimes. Yeah, I acknowledge that. That's hilarious. It's okay. It's just like, yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, that's right. So then I actually didn't remember them looking around in that

[00:17:26] creepy house with all the dead bodies. But then when the garage door went up, I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, I kind of remember this. But anyway, it's sort of convenient that right after all of her

[00:17:35] training, then she had a real world situation and I, but I still liked it that she was kind of fumbling at first, but then he encouraged her, like he could have just stepped in and took

[00:17:46] charge, but he's like, no, I'll, I'll stand back. You go for it. And then you could see this Zen calm come over her, which was a great, I think, acting with Lori Holden. And she just really took

[00:17:56] on, I think what Shane had just taught her. And it felt to me like a real Mr. Miyagi moment, you know, where she got tutored and then put it to great use. Except Daniel never got the

[00:18:09] hots for Mr. Miyagi after he like successfully beat up a bunch of Cobra Kai. Never gotten a Hyundai with him. But it is kind of similar as much as that probably creeps anybody out that

[00:18:20] I would say anything like that, but Daniel and Mr. Miyagi had this great bond because of everything they went through. And anyway, let's go on to the next thing. So, so Andrea has a hell of a first move.

[00:18:34] Yeah, just grabs a guy's crotch. I call it the Trump. Do you approve of this? I feel that Trump wouldn't approve of it being used that way. So yeah,

[00:18:42] I approve of it. I don't know. He might. It was Lori Holden. I love that it was in the Hyundai. That cracks me up every time. Someone at Hyundai standards had to sit there and be like,

[00:18:54] yeah, this is fine. Yeah, it's hot. It's hot. People want to buy their car. Makes their car seem sexy. I think when I first saw this, I felt bad for Dale because in the comics,

[00:19:12] Andrea and Dale are together and I really liked their relationship. But I don't feel attached to that now. So I was like, great. I think this is great. And I think it's really interesting how

[00:19:24] Andrea, well how attraction works because Andrea likes cocky bad boys as so many women do. Men can be like that too. And I also kind of think Shane wasn't really all that into Andrea until

[00:19:38] she got pissed at him and he had to win her back. And I think it's complicated why this is, but a few reasons that might play into it is one, we want everyone to like us. So when someone seems

[00:19:50] like they do, then it's easy to take them for granted. But when it seems like they don't, then sometimes we want to chase after it, you know, as unhealthy as that can be. Two,

[00:19:58] we want to trust that what people are putting out is real. So if someone is like ingratiating a complimentary, then it seems like it could be a ploy to get something and we don't trust it as

[00:20:08] much. But if someone's kind of a dick, then that can feel more honest. Like they don't seem like they're trying to get anything. And I think that's one reason why people love Daryl because he actually

[00:20:18] is honest in that way. You know, like some people act like a dick because they know that that will make them seem honest. So it's highly dishonest, but it still works. But Daryl's sort of curt in

[00:20:31] a way that actually is honest. He's not trying to put on airs at all. And then number three, some of us, some of us deep down don't think well of ourselves. So when someone treats us badly

[00:20:44] on some level that feels right, which is totally the most unhealthy of all these, but maybe Andrea has some of that going on. I think the key to having healthy attraction

[00:20:54] as corny as it is, is to love yourself first. So then you'll be drawn to people who are perhaps more well adjusted like Glenn and Maggie versus someone like Shane, who's a very, um, I don't know, toxic kind of a person. Yeah. Questionable choice.

[00:21:10] What do you think of all that stuff I said about attraction? Do you disagree? Oh yeah, no, I think absolutely. I think also like we have, we all have destructive tendencies to go for things that aren't necessarily good for us. And some of us

[00:21:25] recognize the patterns and some of us don't. And I think there is a classic thing where traditionally women can get sucked in by the bad boy persona. And I think there is something

[00:21:38] in Andrea that responds to these toxic damaged men. And I think it's, it is confirmed when we see her with the governor later. And because there are a lot of red flags with the governor

[00:21:50] that she actively ignores. Yeah, that sort of fits in with this. And I don't know if I've thought about that before. I don't know if I would feel as comfortable saying it if I didn't

[00:21:59] know that she then goes on to have another really bad relationship. And yeah, I've always quite liked the Shane and Andrea stuff because it highlights, because I've been thinking a lot about, you know,

[00:22:11] what changes Shane's mind about leaving and stuff. And I do think that the biggest spanner in the works is the pregnancy. I think there's a scenario where if Laurie wasn't pregnant,

[00:22:21] they all kind of muddled through. And like Shane and Andrea are a thing. He gets to maintain a relationship with Carl, like they do the best they can. But it's the pregnancy that really

[00:22:32] puts the fire under Shane to be as monstrous as he ends up being. And that's all going to kind of hit the fan quite shortly. So I yeah, I don't know. I have I have affection for Shane

[00:22:45] and Andrea. I like the way this plays out. I like that there's something quite primal about it. I like the relationship of the kind of teaching and learning that they do. I wouldn't recommend

[00:22:57] it as a teaching practice for anyone out there, but you know, it works. Yeah, it was good to good to have that kind of come to the fore in this episode. It's one of the most cringe sex

[00:23:11] non scenes. I just I cracked up when she like grabs the crotch and he's like, nah. Yeah, that honestly, that's what made it cringey to me. Like, I just thought if someone did that

[00:23:24] to me, my first reaction would be like, what the fuck are you doing? Who knows? You don't really know how you'd react in the moment. But the bit that cracks me up is every time I watch this, it cuts to the outside of the Hyundai

[00:23:36] and the brake light is on. I'm like, oh, it's his foot still on there. And then it comes off. I love that. It's so funny. I wonder if that was I wonder whose idea that was. Maybe that's

[00:23:48] Angela King's idea, too. Oh, it made me laugh so much. I was like, yeah. I don't remember what really happened with them after this, because there really has been an arc

[00:24:02] with her being into him. And then they have sex. And I don't remember. I don't think they're a thing after this. So maybe Shane finds out Lori's pregnant and just disses her or did they just

[00:24:13] drop it? I honestly think to my recollection, that is as soon as he finds out Lori's pregnant, that's the. That's the kicker, because that's what he's wanted is this family unit, and he suddenly it's on the table in a way that it's never been on the table before.

[00:24:28] And yeah, I think that's when things really start to fall apart. Not the zombie apocalypse, but it's not the apocalypse. It's more about Shane finding out Shane's paternity. So what's next? I mean, I have just I had Shane and Andrea too.

[00:24:48] I'm just looking to see if I've got anything that you have not mentioned. I don't think I do. Other than does Shane have a child militia that we don't know about? Because he's like, I've seen

[00:25:02] him teach children younger than Carl. And I'm like, when? How did this happen? Maybe in the south it's more common for but Shane doesn't have any kids as far as I know. I know, so the toddler shooting lessons at the local fucking police station. So that was a

[00:25:21] confuser. I mean, Carl is 12 or 13. Oh, is he? Yeah, he's 12 or 13. I looked it up because I wanted to ask myself what I would do in the same situation. And the wiki says he's 12 in days gone by, which he seems younger than that.

[00:25:40] I think they age him up from the comics to make sense of Chandler Riggs aging because I'm sure in the comics he's eight. Yeah, I might be wrong. But Chandler Riggs is also 12 at this point, I think. So he looks younger to me. Yeah, boys kind of.

[00:25:57] But my son is 12 and he looks older than Chandler Riggs. Yeah, but Nico's really cool though. And I was thinking, would I give, I know we're kind of moving on to a little bit of a different

[00:26:09] subject, but would I approve of Shane teaching Nico how to shoot? And I think I would in the zombie apocalypse, you know, just as Rick said, to learn how to handle guns safely. And I'd probably try to have a bunch of rules around it.

[00:26:27] Yeah, it's the classic, if you're going to do it, I'd rather you did it safely. Yeah, but not Bodhi. I would try to keep a gun away from Bodhi as long as possible. So you just got that kind of mean look? Not mean, just crazy, man.

[00:26:42] Bodhi's behind Jason at the moment with a Nerf gun, just like going to town. He wants a pickaxe every time I ask him what he wants for his birthday or Christmas, a pickaxe. Wow. What are you going to do with that? I'm going to mine.

[00:26:53] He wants to be a miner because he's been playing Minecraft. I'm like, it's not mining, like, isn't what you think? I want a pickaxe so I can mine. That's amazing. Where would you go camping? Well, he could join the child militia. Shane will teach you.

[00:27:12] Anyway, why don't you do a different, a new one though? I will, I will. I'll find a better point. Andrew and Shane talk about it. Let's talk about, oh man, Laurie this episode. I find this episode really hard to watch from a, I don't know, reproductive rights perspective

[00:27:37] and I don't want to get really political about it. The only thing I will say is the situation Laurie finds herself in, in this episode is a situation which is not as uncommon as it should be

[00:27:50] and women's rights are getting ruled back across the world at a rapid rate. And it's just something to think about. You mean a situation where she would have to take a morning after pill well into her pregnancy?

[00:28:01] A situation where she would have to do an at-home abortion to manage a pregnancy that she didn't necessarily want. And it just, it really hit me a lot harder watching it this time around because

[00:28:13] like this episode aired in 2011 and it's 2024 and the situation for women in certain parts of America is a lot worse than it was when this aired. And I just, I find it really, I don't know, I find

[00:28:27] there's two issues here for me. One is I find surprise pregnancy a really cheap storytelling thing. Like it bothers me that often women's storylines are reduced to pregnancy. However, I also hope I forgive it in this show because a we get Judith which adds a different flavor

[00:28:49] to the whole thing and b I think it is a really valid question of like what do you do in the zombie apocalypse when faced with this medical condition. However, I don't think when this

[00:29:02] episode aired that it would really have been a comment on Roe v. Wade or anything like that. But I find myself very tense watching it, thinking about that and thinking about how terrifying it

[00:29:14] must be to be in a situation that you do not want to be in and do not feel you have a choice about and unable to do something about it. I think the episode was careful. At least it seemed like it

[00:29:26] to me not to try to, not to make it that issue of pro-choice versus pro-life. Because like Glenn wanted to make it clear. Well actually Glenn made it clear that he wanted it to be her choice. And

[00:29:42] then when Rick was like aghast that she would want to try to abort the baby, it felt, I don't know, I don't think it's because he's anti-abortion but I think it's more about hey this is our baby.

[00:29:56] NM- Well he actually comes back on it. He says she's trying to force and he does say he's scared that she thinks he would have made her go through with a pregnancy she didn't want. LB- Right, he just wanted to be a part of the decision.

[00:30:08] NM- I mean I do feel for Rick that he comes back from like a little walk and then he comes in and it's like five packets of morning after pills and some pronatal vitamins. I'm like what did you do

[00:30:19] with that? LB- She's not doing a very good job of keeping that secret. NM- Terrible, terrible job of keeping the secret. But I did, I don't know, it hit different. It

[00:30:29] really hit different this time around and I really did feel very deeply for her and I would not have judged her if she had not thrown those pills up. But I'm glad for the sake of the story that she

[00:30:39] did do that. LB- I felt for her in that moment because, well I was judgmental that she didn't take Glenn's advice and go tell Rick. But then you find, you know, you see that she's taking the

[00:30:51] pills and then she goes and throws up and I'm like god what that must be such a horrible position to be in. NM- Awful. And I think as well she feels so guilty. She feels so guilty and she's punishing

[00:31:06] herself through this. Like this is the thing and she's like she feels so paralyzed with guilt about what she did that she's not thinking straight. She's not sharing it with Rick. She's forcing herself to make all these decisions on her own and it's interesting the interaction she has

[00:31:20] with Dale where he kind of, I'll say Dale I liked in this episode because he took what Glenn told him but didn't get Glenn in trouble. LB- Yeah, covered for Glenn. NM- Apart from with Maggie

[00:31:32] who saw through and she's like, no my dad's pissed at me. LB- I know, like Maggie didn't even ask because the story that Dale came up with is he was over by the barn and he heard the zombies which is

[00:31:44] totally reasonable to think that that would happen and is probably actually inevitable with all these people milling around. Like I'm surprised they didn't find him before but Maggie didn't even ask

[00:31:54] Glenn. Did you tell? She just presumes she happens to be right. NM- I mean he did say he sucks at lying. I would say the person who's most judgmental in this episode about it is Maggie. I remember

[00:32:07] that really clearly from this episode Maggie coming up and being like here's your abortion pills but I think that is coming from a place of her distress about what has just happened to her

[00:32:19] and a whole heap of other things about how they're treating. LB- She's not happy that Glenn didn't tell her about it, you know. She's upset that they keep sending Glenn into these dangerous situations

[00:32:32] but I do think there's, well I was gonna say she comes from a religious family so maybe there's some of that sentiment in there but she's also expressed having doubts so we don't really know

[00:32:41] how much of that is… NM- And she tells an anecdote in a later episode about Beth throwing all of her contraceptive pills in the river or something when Maggie comes home from college once. So Maggie is not averse to using contraception as we know from previous episodes

[00:32:56] and I do think with Maggie they kind of square the circle when Maggie is the one to deliver Judith. And it's clear that this doesn't…it's not something that festers between Maggie and

[00:33:06] Laurie but her reaction is very knee-jerk and she says to Glenn that bitch almost got us killed, like she's very angry. LB- I think it's more about just having sent…because she gives that

[00:33:21] whole speech about Glenn they always send him into danger, you know. I felt like it was maybe more about that but I don't know. NM- I think so. So yeah, pronatal vitamins or

[00:33:34] vitamins as we say in the UK or morning after pills, you know, that's a hell of a choice. And yeah, she makes herself sick, she decides to keep the baby and she's still not sure if it's

[00:33:44] the right thing to do and then that leads to this discovery by Rick in the tent. I've just written hoo boy in my notes and Rick comes up to Laurie. I don't know, they both are so good in the scene,

[00:33:56] he's like is there something you want to tell me and Laurie's like we can't leave, I'm pregnant. And then he says are you? Which is a hell of a line. I don't know, this whole scene I wish I'd

[00:34:08] kind of looked at the script written down because it's just so well written and well done between the two of them. But it's very interesting what Laurie says about a baby living short cruel life

[00:34:20] and I think this is where having watched the show to the end is a blessing because you think about Judith and the life that she has and it is cruel. AC- So Laurie's worried about, I mean her whole struggle is seeing that Carl's turning into a

[00:34:38] little psycho and so she's like what he had already 10 years outside of the ZA and this is what he's becoming so what if I bring someone up in this? Will they even be able to live to

[00:34:50] your age to Dale? Will they have joy? Will they, you know, she said she has these well of memories to draw on but this baby will have nothing and so yeah as you're saying we think about Judith and

[00:35:02] yes she's been through some hard times but she's managed to keep that spark of joy about her and that zest for life and everything and so it comes across way differently now that we know the future

[00:35:14] of this baby and we have a lot of hope that she will live to be Dale's age. Yeah we have no reason to believe she doesn't. So that's yeah I think Sarah Waine-Calley's is

[00:35:25] just very good in this. The one thing that I got angry at Andrea, as Laurie for in this episode is when she takes Rick to absolute task about not telling her about Herschel not being sure

[00:35:36] that they're staying. It's like how could you not tell me this? How could you lie to me? And I'm like bitch you're pregnant. I know you got like at least two big secrets going on here. I'm like

[00:35:47] maybe let's not be too touchy. But then Rick does the same thing to her. You didn't tell me but I guess it's, I mean they're both yeah they're both hypocrites. Yeah and I thought okay so here's the

[00:35:59] thing I thought was a really interesting choice is when she's talking to Dale at the start um she says you know I thought my husband was dead I just wanted to feel something I just wanted to

[00:36:09] you know feel anything and she knows it was a huge mistake. When she's talking to Rick he says I know of course I know and then there's the silence and Laurie doesn't actually say anything

[00:36:20] and Rick is the one who says you thought I was dead right? Like he I think it's interesting that she's not jumping in to justify it and he kind of fills in the blanks for her and I don't know what

[00:36:33] that says. I don't know if that's a way of saying that like Laurie isn't as sorry as she said she was to Dale. I think she is but I just thought it was a really interesting choice that Rick is the

[00:36:42] one who fills in those blanks. I think he just wants to make sure that that's what happened and she's like yes that is what happened and it is what happened. And the episode just ends with the

[00:36:52] two of them there at the fence and this is kind of where everything really I don't know this this feels like a turning point for them. Yeah I mean this so they're there together and you know

[00:37:08] Rick confronts her about the pills and she tells him right away which I thought was good and thankful because I don't want this storyline to go along anymore. Let's get it all out in the

[00:37:20] open so we can move on to something else. And Laurie says you can scream if you have to but talk to me which sort of brings up the things we've been saying about Laurie's problem with

[00:37:29] Rick all along that he is doesn't talk enough or what as he said in that flashback as she said in the flashback in season two episode two to her friend he was trying so hard to be reasonable

[00:37:40] it just pushed my buttons all the more and you and I had the conversation about how it can be really frustrating when your partner won't get in there and emotionally just engage even if it

[00:37:49] means yelling. Well he makes up for it because he just yells at her why the hell did you tell me? She's like oh I don't like it stop it. Yeah you asked for it buddy and uh so then you got the

[00:38:04] reaction you wanted right and then but then Rick calms down pretty quickly and says we can make it work and he wants to make it work and but he does yeah express support that you know if she really

[00:38:15] didn't want to that he would be there for her for that too. And then he goes I can't live like this anymore we can't live like this and I think he's referring to just feeling like they're secrets

[00:38:27] and I think he even I don't know how consciously he knows but he's talking about her affair with Shane here. One of the listeners had asked when we thought the moment was that he figured it out

[00:38:37] and now I can see why because when she says Shane and I he goes is there anything else I should know about she says Shane and I and he says I know of course I know and so yeah maybe that moment

[00:38:49] that the listener said back in uh was it this season early on where she was talking with Shane and Rick came in. It was Tiege and he was talking about them speaking outside the RV when um Jim is

[00:39:02] in there. I do think it's a bit of a running gag that Shane and Laurie are very unsubtle like when Dale's like oh Shane and Laurie's like oh my god you knew and I'm like

[00:39:13] yeah well remember when the tent was shaking and Carl was playing? Yeah remember when you like were constantly going into the woods to have sex yeah we all know it's like oh my god awful awful.

[00:39:25] So um so Rick quickly forgives her for that but then of course the next thing talked about should have been so what are the chances this is Shane's baby but instead the episode ends and I can't

[00:39:42] remember if they ever talked about it. I don't think so but you know it's sort of like two parallel things here Rick pretty much already knew that Laurie had been with Shane but wasn't

[00:39:53] confronting her with it. It seemed like he'd only let himself consciously be aware of that in this moment after she admitted it and maybe it's the same thing about it being her baby like

[00:40:03] he's not or Shane's baby that he's not even letting himself think about that and in season eight when he says to Michonne yeah this isn't even my child it almost feels like this same

[00:40:13] moment where he says I know you and Shane have been together like he's just finally letting himself realize it or something you know? I think he hints that he might know when he says to her how long

[00:40:22] have you been keeping the secret days weeks months but I still think your reading is good like I agree with you that it's letting himself think about I think because that line struck me when

[00:40:34] I was watching it I was like why is he saying weeks or months like because if it's weeks then But what he's not saying is uh you know this can't be mine then so I think I think it either

[00:40:45] he's really deluding himself or it must be possible for it to be his yeah well otherwise it's not mine you know yeah they're very careful to show them who can up the week before I think

[00:40:56] it's still quite quick but you know the possibility is there because you and I had talked about whether the timing works out on that but just be I think if the timing absolutely didn't work out

[00:41:06] then Rick would just be like so you got Shane's baby yeah exactly it has to be plausible that it's I think yeah so Glenn seems to be more concerned about her condition than it seemed like maybe he

[00:41:25] could have been judgmental one of the listeners said but I don't think that's it I think no he's just like you need to be to take care of yourself he needs medicine and a nice pillow

[00:41:34] yeah exactly and uh when he when she said you know prenatal vitamins or morning after pills that's a hell of a choice and Glenn just said I'm glad it's not mine which sort of expresses

[00:41:47] understanding no matter which choice she makes but he just wants her to tell Rick um and yeah I guess that's it so let me go on to something else uh how about walkers in the barn there's

[00:41:59] walkers in the barn so a few just random things about this at one point when Patricia is like getting the chicken from the chicken coop the camera rests eerily on the barn outside

[00:42:15] looked through the doorway and it looks like it has a face I don't think that's an accident the two windows are the eyes and the big kind of gaping mouth is the door creepy so then she

[00:42:26] feeds the chickens to the zeds and I was thinking it's a good thing that um zombie chickens aren't a thing because um they'd be bitten any what would they be called uh chombies chombies cluckers cluckers peckers peck don't think you can call them don't get pecked

[00:42:48] don't get pecked Andrea anyway sorry oh too late too late uh so Dale finds out and talks you know about the walkers from Glenn talks to Herschel and tries to smooth things out and and he he's

[00:43:04] ever the diplomat you know he's just like oh well let's tell everyone and we'll make the barn more secure and Rick or Herschel says Rick's a man I'm conscious but are you so sure about everyone in

[00:43:16] your group and I think he's referring mostly to Shane but maybe to Darryl a little bit too you know yeah that might kill him he's still pissed at Darryl even though Nellie's back

[00:43:26] and if you'd think I was sort of thinking Herschel should just tell him but no he's got a point if he doesn't want Shane and Darryl going in and shooting up his zombie wife and kid he has to keep it a

[00:43:38] secret um and when they're talking about whether walkers are too dangerous to let live and Herschel says paranoid schizophrenics are dangerous too we don't shoot sick people that makes me think that Herschel maybe would not have approved of Carol telling Lizzie to look at the flowers

[00:44:01] you know I don't know was he around I just have an inkling I just have an inkling he might not have yeah yeah I guess it's the same bet and then last as I said these are all kind of random but Maggie

[00:44:13] named off a bunch of zeds in the barn she said mom Sean Lacey and Duncan so Duncan's in the barn so there we go wonder where he went and uh and I guess when Glenn saw all the zeds last time Sophia must not have been out in the

[00:44:31] open I think she is she was already in there but she was over in the dark corner or something there yeah she must be hiding or she's just too short so she's just playing in the corner

[00:44:43] playing ball it was nice to see um Dale and Herschel share a scene uh oh yeah kind of I always I never think of them as having been on the show at the same like I don't know they seem

[00:44:54] to yeah Herschel kind of took over the wise old he replaced Dale yeah so it's nice to see the two of them together and this was a good Dale episode I thought too yeah so he was he really had my

[00:45:07] kind of good feelings until he was a bit of a well I don't know I think he was right with Shane but his reasons were wrong it was clearly more about Andrea than it was about the group per se

[00:45:19] the way that he confronted him yeah I think Dale like I said he's trying to be the diplomat he's learning the secrets well Glenn told him he's pregnant and the walkers are in the barn so he

[00:45:33] just basically lends an ear towards to Laurie I mean he's trying to connect with her and I'm not sure telling about his wife that has had a miscarriage isn't a great way to comfort someone

[00:45:43] but not the most helpful but I mean she seems relieved to be able to have someone to confide in just starts talking about how you know why she was with Shane that she I thought my husband was

[00:45:53] dead and I I wanted to feel something she died with him which was very yeah yeah and tries to get Dale tries to get her shell to tell Rick so they can work out the zombies in the barn but

[00:46:06] Shane it's way different because it's more personal because he senses that something happened with Andrea and Shane and straight up tells him to leave and he suspects rightly that Shane's story about how Otis died wasn't true although I've since come down on Shane's side of that whole

[00:46:26] thing but anyway and then Dale says I know what kind of man you are and Shane says you think I'd shoot Rick that's my best friend it's the man I love I love him like he's my brother you think

[00:46:39] that's the kind of man I am Dale says that's right Shane says well maybe we ought to just think that through say I'm the kind of man who'd gunned down his best friend what do you think I'd do to a guy

[00:46:47] that I don't even like when he starts throwing accusations my way and he does end up gunned down gunning down his best friend so I think on some level Shane knows he's capable of that and he has

[00:46:58] a point here Dale if you really think that of Shane maybe confronting him isn't the smartest idea here so that's my criticism of Dale here is like hey if you really think Shane's like that and

[00:47:09] I think you're right Dale then you better not tell him up front like Dale says Glenn has no guile but in here in this scene Dale has no guile the boy has no guile

[00:47:22] no I think you're right I think he's I think Shane plays that moment really well as well um and you see that was a proper Jesus moment yeah it was great it was so good do you think

[00:47:34] Dale is right to want Shane out of there I mean ultimately yes because Shane is a loose canon and is prone to doing things that are questionable it does end with Shane and Rick in a standoff

[00:47:50] in which Shane intends and hopes to kill Rick um however I don't think the reasons he's doing it at this point are correct because it's more about him and Andrea than it is about yeah as a whole or

[00:48:03] maybe I mean no you're being generous he's maybe thinking about the group survival on the farm overall well I think he's activated by his jealousy yeah but he also is right but he's not

[00:48:17] because he's triggered he's not handling it well so yeah I think you're right what you just had his reasons for bringing this up are not pure same thing last week when he was like budding up to

[00:48:29] Andrea uh I forget what it was but he was being opportunistic about Daryl yeah he takes it but anyway um as far as just purely whether he's right I think he's right because Shane he cares

[00:48:45] about Laurie and Carl and he anyone else he would kill if they got in the way so someone like that's not a good leader for a group no and I think you know Andrea asks Shane why he stayed in this

[00:48:59] episode as well and he kind of focuses in on Carl and Rick rather than Laurie which I thought was interesting so I think you're I'm warming to this idea that it really is more about Carl than it is

[00:49:11] about his mother at this point but I do think that's about to change as soon as the pregnancy comes into play I actually don't think that I think Shane is still fixated on Laurie

[00:49:23] I do think Carl's just part of that well yeah and yeah I think Carl the whole family thing is part of it I mean what I was trying to say before is I'm not sure if Laurie has a thing for Shane

[00:49:35] but I do kind of blame Laurie for Shane sticking around because she asked him to stay and didn't say anything about you know this is for Carl it's not because I have any I don't have any feelings

[00:49:47] for you she didn't say that so that sort of left the door open for it so and I'm not sure what's going on with her as far as that goes but either way no I this whole time I've thought Shane wants to take Laurie away from Rick.

[00:50:01] Interesting yeah no I think so. So anything else? Anything else let's have a look oh isn't this episode has Peter's favorite line ever in it which is when Dale is telling Shane to go away and they do a bit of product placement where he's

[00:50:20] like take your fancy new ride and it's like yep Hyundai product placements. I have some notes about Glenn and Maggie well a point about Glenn and Maggie which is just that their relationship

[00:50:32] in this episode is much more layered than I first thought. I always thought at this point they were still kind of casual but I think here you can see the kind of depth of feeling that Maggie has for

[00:50:44] him in the way that she is so frustrated with the way that he's being treated by his own group. She talks about him being smart you're smart you're brave you're a leader she clearly cares

[00:50:59] about him she talks about losing the other people that she cared about most as well as that when she joins him on the pharmacy run he talks about can you you can hate me from a distance but forces

[00:51:11] her to speak and you know and now my dad's pissed at me they have that interaction about what do you call the walkers what she's upset about is that he'll keep a secret for the group but not for her

[00:51:25] but it turns out that he's happy to share the secret with her he just doesn't really know what Laurie's asked for so he hands her the piece of paper at which point Maggie says you've got to

[00:51:34] be kidding me and I'm just yeah oh is that what it was he said he didn't know what it was I think he wouldn't know what it was okay I think I think he would have if he'd known he would have been like

[00:51:44] you want me to get what and I think she would have given him the drug name or something and he would have found that um sidebar the fake morning after pills were really funny they just looked

[00:51:55] they were just like blue box morning after pill I was like sure that's what it looks like um and I felt so bad for Maggie in the scene in the pharmacy that attack is brutal she's so upset by

[00:52:07] that attack um and Glenn comes in and saves her that shocked me I had forgotten I jumped and I forgot that it gets up through the oh and it gets up with his head hanging off afterwards and Glenn

[00:52:18] has to go back and do it it's just such an upsetting and she is almost bitten that's a very very close call so her anger at Laurie made a lot more sense to me the second time around watching it um but

[00:52:31] it ends with her and her and Glenn in this quite powerful place I guess where she tells him how much she values him and kisses him and you get the feeling that there's a lot going on with Maggie

[00:52:43] she's starting to question what her dad believes in her own beliefs and she's sort of helping her dad hold up this thing that she's not really sure she believes in with the barn and dealing with her

[00:52:53] own grief and I don't know I just thought Glenn and Maggie it's so much more layered coming back to it than I remember it being um and I really enjoy watching them both um I thought this was

[00:53:04] lovely and I thought the way Glenn looked after her after the attack and held her close was very sweet um yeah everyone should know Glenn. I think yeah this episode to me feels like

[00:53:18] when they become a couple you know when she kisses him and says you're smart you're brave you're a leader but you don't know it and your friends don't want to know it they'd rather have

[00:53:28] you fetching peaches wait peaches is that right? Yeah because he's given out the peaches earlier. Okay yeah there's a dead guy in the well send Glenn down you're walker bait. Walker bait. I can't take you becoming one of them. Walker bite and I'm just like

[00:53:45] you're she's so good for him she just helped him level up she helps him become self-actualized that's exactly the kind of partner that you want to have. Yeah they're so good for each other. Yeah they're really good for each other.

[00:53:59] Sigh um yeah I had a point about him too it's really funny to give make him be the one to learn the secrets the zombies in the barn and Laurie's pregnancy because he's so bad at it and he played

[00:54:10] it so well. I suck at lying I can't even play poker. Oh it's so good. And then when T-Dog's like what's up and he's like nothing nothing's up why? And uh the fun I think the funniest moment

[00:54:27] on The Walking Dead at least up to this point is when Dale catches him in the lie about the spark plugs and goes want to tell me what's going on? You're old you're you know things so

[00:54:37] what if somebody told you something that somebody else should know? Glenn stop being dramatic spit it out there's walkers in the barn and Laurie's pregnant. He just gives up and he's like there's walkers in the barn and I'm pregnant. Laurie's pregnant. And he did kind of betray

[00:54:54] Maggie there though. He should oh yeah if he's gonna tell he should have told her at least told her he was gonna do that first. Absolutely. So anyway all right shall we move on to notes? Yeah

[00:55:06] um I don't have that. Oh wait one more thing one thing I'm sorry when Glenn and Maggie are having this conversation about whether walkers are just sick people now I can't help but think

[00:55:17] of how she whacked that one with her bat you know because we had that conversation with Dina last time. Oh well oh Maggie you can just say the multitudes um I don't have that many notes um I

[00:55:29] couldn't re-watch the cold open I can't watch the chickens getting their wee legs broken oh it makes me so upset I can't do it I just oh the noise is awful so I skipped that after the first re-watch

[00:55:41] um I enjoyed Daryl forgiving Andrea and kind of enjoying the power a little bit like yeah you're trying to protect the group we're good like I felt like that was a big shift from how he would

[00:55:55] have been in season one. Yeah you fucking shoot Priam! Yeah what the hell bitch! But next time she shoots him best Priam dead um yeah which made me laugh. Almost like flirtation. I love that um she smiles I

[00:56:11] lots of forgiving in this by the way Daryl forgave Andrea for shooting him Maggie forgave Glenn sort of implicitly for telling Dale about the walkers in the barn Laurie forgave Glenn for telling Dale

[00:56:23] about her pregnancy Rick forgave Laurie for having been with Shane Dale forgave Shane no Dale didn't forgive Shane. Yeah I liked um the little drama of Carl stealing the gun and everyone being pissed

[00:56:38] off about him like lying and I thought that was very funny um I think I we chan the rigs is doing really well actually I remember being quite down on his acting but I thought he was really good in

[00:56:49] this episode. I think he's good but this is where I'm starting to feel it's not quite as believable as he was up to this point still good he's no Judas quite yeah he's no he's no Kelly Fleming

[00:57:04] um Dale and Herschel together um my wife and steps on their people whether the walkers are people or not is an interesting question um and we spoke a little about the man of conscience idea

[00:57:18] and Laurie finding out that they may not be staying permanently is a really interesting moment um when Andrea's trying to shoot the log that's swinging Shane says that it's still a virgin which

[00:57:28] gives me the absolute heave so uh thanks for that Shane you are a dick sometimes um what does that mean it just it's not being it's not being shot hasn't been penetrated by Billip lovely um I don't

[00:57:41] think I have any other notes I forgot I had a point about Carl you mentioned Carl so when he calls Laurie a housewife it is very sexist tells her you know don't worry that's my job no it's not

[00:58:02] your housewife I was trying to figure out what it even meant and I think I mean it plays into the themes of gender roles that have been in the walking dead for the first couple of seasons

[00:58:13] but I think mostly it's just about Carl well it's both it relates but him wanting to see himself as a protector you know he's like okay I got shot there's zombies everywhere this is dangerous

[00:58:24] world I need to learn how to use gun and protect my mom who's a housewife you know that kind of my mom who's a housewife yeah yeah um and then he says matter of factly that maybe the mother chicken

[00:58:37] got eaten and he says everything's food for something else and he's just grappling with the reality of this world but I think this is where we started thinking maybe the zombie apocalypse

[00:58:46] is turning Carl into a little psycho you know I don't remember ever feeling like that until now and then it makes me of course think of that season three episode where he shot that kid

[00:58:56] yeah yeah but I also think all this stuff about Carl worrying Laurie is also just about adding to her worry about bringing another child into the zombie apocalypse yeah so uh my notes I'd forgotten that Karen and David actually podcasted on last week's episode chupacabra originally back

[00:59:21] in 2011 because I was in Atlanta oh no way because I went back to listen and like oh yeah it wasn't even on that one that was my first time to be able to do a full podcast about it oh you guys

[00:59:34] that was cool um there's a scene where Rick's still looking at maps planning routes to find Sophia and I'm like how many days has it been since they've do you know since uh Sophia was so we're on day 70 of the apocalypse and we left Sophia on day 60

[01:00:00] so 10 days seven oh three days that's it no 66 three or four days yeah not long okay under a week feels like about a year feels like a millennia they're like well she would be in college by now

[01:00:18] so let's check out the colleges you may have enrolled uh let's see I think I had a couple one other note um is that Rick you know he has a secret too he expect he that Herschel expects

[01:00:36] them to leave his farm and Laurie's upset that he kept that from her and he says it's not what I want either but if we have to go I'll do whatever it takes to make sure you and Carl are okay we get

[01:00:46] we'll get by we will and that got me thinking about where they go next the prison and what happens to Laurie there so maybe he was a bit optimistic on that one at least she won't be

[01:00:58] born in a ditch she will be born in a cell when he comes out of the or he finds out that she died he's in the prison um yard I guess and he's really upset doubled over and they kept using

[01:01:17] that for memes where he's telling jokes to Carl so now I keep thinking of that and in this episode when Maggie is saying to Glenn I think it's when she's saying you're brave and you're stronger

[01:01:30] somewhere in that scene in that bad lip lip reading thing oh I have her saying something sexual there I already watched that yeah I can't remember what it was but it's great I can't that's

[01:01:41] what I think of though I gotta go back and get the line later anyways all right what else do you have for trivia timeline we're on day 70 um imdb dive was terrible for this episode was with two

[01:01:59] points one was that the book that Andrea gives Daryl is the case of the missing man which is book 10 of the farm mystery series by Stephen and Susie Castleberry the second fact which I

[01:02:12] thought was just such a waste of internet time is the title of this episode comes from Glenn keeping Maggie's secret and Laurie's secret just in case you hadn't figured that out

[01:02:24] I love how clever they are with these titles I know it's I'd been agonizing over that so I for one I'm glad that I found out um only on the walking dead would shooting walking corpses get someone hot only on the walking dead would chicken wings be unappealing

[01:03:18] obvious threat to untold numbers of citizens the people it kills get up and kill are they slow-moving chief yeah they're dead they're all messed up this is a walking dead cast news update

[01:03:31] all right a few quick things one you may have heard Stephen Yeun won his first Emmy outstanding lead actor in a limited series for his role as Danny Cho in beef if you haven't seen

[01:03:44] beef and now you've decided to watch it you should also check out the episode of this podcast that Karen David Karen she and I did it's number 519 in case you're curious and I thought

[01:03:56] that episode turned out really well amazing next comicbookmovie.com said that the role of the sentry which Stephen Yeun stepped down from was rumored to have been offered next to actor Austin Abrams who played Ron Anderson in seasons five and six of the walking dead oh shit Anderson

[01:04:17] was Sam and Sam's older brother right and wasn't he like annoying he was a douchebag right and and if this is rumors to be believed he was offered the role and he passed on the role

[01:04:31] so maybe it's just a really shitty role I was gonna say maybe the right shit yeah that's like okay the sentry gets crapped on by Captain America what we're doing is we're doing the Marvel human centipede and you're in the middle

[01:04:48] it's great it's gonna elevate your career hey I heard I'm gonna win an Emmy next this April issue number 12 of the comic book Batman the Brave and the Bold will be drawn by Charlie Adlard who illustrated the walking dead I'm only putting this in there because I saw

[01:05:07] a sample and it looks totally gorgeous and exciting dark and moody so yeah he's getting work and finally we've talked about this before that they're doing a last of us 2 remaster for

[01:05:22] the ps5 and that comes out tomorrow as I'm recording this but it will already be out by the time you hear it I'm totally looking forward to playing through it again and listening to the

[01:05:31] commentary from the actors and creators and some of the features are graphical improvements a new single-player roguelike survival mode called no return where you can play as one of 10 different characters guitar free play mode where you can play guitar as Joel Ellie or the composer Gustavo

[01:05:49] Santalya and strum on like banjos or different string instruments full dual sense controller integration with adaptive triggers haptic feedback and things like that a documentary that goes behind the scenes on the development and my favorite as mentioned the audio commentary

[01:06:05] from the developers and the cast so that's a 40 game if you have never bought the game before but it's only 10 if you already have the ps4 version oh that's pretty decent price wise yeah I think

[01:06:16] so that's even that was a little critical too like they're doing a remaster it's already the best looking game I've ever seen but it's 10 bucks yeah I heard walking dead destinies is

[01:06:27] even better though so I would buy that instead go for that oh man you sadist all right that's it for the news let's move on to Lister Mellon's Grounds and Grunts Sam Lowe says Laurie's worries hit different from differently for me now that I know how things play

[01:06:47] out her words to Dale about the baby living to be his age oh Laurie even Carl won't make it past his teens but he was happy also I'd forgotten how aggressively Andrea grabbed Shane's crotch and

[01:06:59] it kind of came out of nowhere during their drive back it led to a pretty steamy moment but I was started when she did it girl ask first before grabbing someone's genitals for the first time

[01:07:09] good advice can I grab your crotch I mean that might be a little weird yeah excuse me sure by all means too bad neither of these two last long they would have been such a cute couple

[01:07:20] now they're probably just chilling in the afterlife lamenting about how their poor romantic choices got them killed I mean you're not wrong maybe Shane and Laurie are together

[01:07:29] thanks Sam Gloria let her eat how do you say your middle name Gloria I want to be able to say that right Gloria let Terry Hernan says well secrets was interesting Glenn you adorable awkward little

[01:07:43] idiot hello Laurie you have a medical condition lmao she's only pregnant women's bodies are miraculous but yeah in this world it's all up to chance I forgot about that Walker in the pharmacy

[01:07:55] scared the crap out of me I don't think it was fair of Maggie to yell at Laurie though she she won't find herself with Laurie's medical condition for a while at least she was up front with Glenn

[01:08:05] and told him she cares about him yeah Shane empowering Andrea yes girl kill those walkers got her all hot and horny for teacher oh if I was still playing music I you guys probably noticed

[01:08:20] I haven't been playing music anymore it's because I got like copyright notices that I shouldn't do that but I would totally play hot for teacher then judgey Dale comes out again I think he was jealous

[01:08:32] yes I'm all for a woman's choice but Laurie definitely should have told her husband and had a discussion at least I agree with that great episode thanks Gloria thanks Gloria Alma Contreras

[01:08:43] says I really like this episode it seemed in the season that things had slowed down a bit but I would argue that we needed this pace for character development Dale really comes forth facing Glenn

[01:08:53] secrets head-on I like the little talk he has with Laurie as nervous Nelly returning home in the beginning of the episode I'm embarrassed to admit that I'd never caught that little detail until

[01:09:03] just recently I don't think I did either oh well she came back um Patricia with breaking the chicken's legs makes me cringe no matter how many times I rewatch you and me both Alma well I look forward

[01:09:14] to hearing your thoughts Alma I hope we did not disappoint Alma rewatches that scene over and over again oh I'm just kidding Alex Kruger says I honestly can't tell if I like this episode or not

[01:09:30] it crawls the story forward yeah I could kind of see that and it has some decent scenes plus the acting performance by Sarah Wayne Callies is phenomenal throughout but the episode still just feels a bit middle range having said that some thoughts and observations I think part of

[01:09:45] Laurie lashing out at Rick for keeping secrets is her guilt over keeping just as big if not bigger of a secret yeah I can projecting kind of thing the music during the Walker attack in the pharmacy

[01:09:55] felt really out of place I know hot for teacher that's so I know or it would have worked for a Cobra Kai fight but here it didn't feel right I criticized Dale a lot

[01:10:10] for being a busy buddy but damn I have to respect him for not sugarcoating his reasons you suck speech to Shane granted Shane followed it up with a solid point as to why it wasn't the best call

[01:10:21] that's so funny very excited to listen to this episode so I can watch the next one well I'm glad you're following along with us yeah like that's awesome Robin Springer says hey y'all I can't seem to get it together to call some thoughts I've really

[01:10:35] been enjoying the coverage of the rewatch it's interesting to hear Jason say how his feelings about some episodes have changed over time might have to in some cases but one thing remains

[01:10:44] constant I so disliked Dale the first go-round and I still do he was always referred to as the moral core or something but he's a nosy controlling sanctimonious old man I also don't really like

[01:10:55] Andrea in these early episodes but I became a lot more sympathetic to her later I could see myself making the same mistakes I was always torn on Laurie but I like her better this time she and

[01:11:05] Andrea being alpha females have interesting clashes also re-darrel and the Cherokee Rose story any kid who went to school in Georgia learned that story in fourth grade Georgia history oh that's cool

[01:11:17] Robin I'm glad to hear that um I imagine that Darrell was a lonesome probably dreamy sweet kid who really latched on to that beautiful story as he survived his tough childhood also re-darrel's mother dying after Laurie died Darrell gruffly told Carl that his mother died

[01:11:32] in a house fire Carl then told him he shot Laurie so he wouldn't turn they sat together for a bit Darrell said sorry about your mom Carl said sorry about yours and that was that I'll try to call

[01:11:43] you next week thanks Robin I wonder if the fire was because it's moonshine Becky Fenner Anderson says hey everyone my notes on season two episode six I could not be the one

[01:11:56] in charge of feeding the barn walkers that was rough I feel for those chickens Carl was very mature when talking to Laurie about everything being food for something okay it was sweet yeah

[01:12:07] I mean usually you would think except not humans but now humans too your game it was sweet of Darrell to forgive Andrea loved his line if you shoot me again you better hope I'm dead

[01:12:20] Georgia peaches are amazing did you get to have any while filming Jason wow that was so long ago that was um that was 13 years ago 12 13 I don't remember I hope so under I do remember though

[01:12:40] sitting in the cafeteria with all the other zombies eating spaghetti it was so weird these corpses just hanging out what's up talking about our day under different circumstances I might have agreed with Laurie on Carl learning to shoot at such a young age but in an apocalypse

[01:12:58] I'm with Rick how do they have all this extra ammo to spare for target practice and how is all that noise not attracting more walkers I think the ammo is a department of suspension

[01:13:08] of disbelief thing and the noise is not attracting walkers because they live in a special fear the walking dead style location that is somehow separate I think there's a water around it or something I don't remember I think there is talk about it much like that yeah

[01:13:24] natural defense you can talk about it more later yeah uh Carl looks so cute with his little gun lol Laurie fussing at Rick for keeping a secret that Herschel wants them gone what about the baby secret Laurie I think it was a pivotal moment for Maggie being attacked

[01:13:40] at the drugstore seems like that was when she finally realized they aren't people anymore when she got back to camp she used the term walker I think for the first time

[01:13:48] I didn't catch that there you go I'm glad Maggie laid it out for Glenn like she told him he's far more important than he and the group thinks he is yep dang Andrea went for it with Shane

[01:13:59] cracked me up when they got back she couldn't hide it at all Dale what happened out there Andrea got the D Dale that's what happened uh was Dale being protective of Andrea or was he jealous

[01:14:14] both mostly jealous uh Shane is starting to snap the look in his eye when threatening Dale was intense yes it was I don't care for Laurie but I do respect her concerns about

[01:14:25] bringing a baby into that world glad she finally told Rick about Shane and he definitely handled it well until next time have a great weekend thank you Becky um Danielle Dement-Yost says some random thoughts since I've been out of the conversation one of the greatest tragedies in

[01:14:42] these early seasons is how Shane who seems to have once been a very close and loved Grimes family member became an enemy and ultimately had to be dispatched for the same family's protection

[01:14:52] I don't think Rick ever gets the space and time he needs to grieve the loss of his closest friend and it absolutely kick-starts him into the beast of a man he turns out to be

[01:15:01] I think there is definitely a backstory of Rick leaving Laurie to do the bulk of the parenting while he is playing hero at work not to diminish police work I think Rick is a controlling person

[01:15:11] and a person who needs to be actively working towards something passivity is not in his nature which is why he prefers to always have a task to accomplish even when he really ought to just stand

[01:15:20] still for a minute and be present in the situation he can't rest while he has a to-do list in his head especially if he feels a sense of urgency about it I would agree with that um Rick handcuffed

[01:15:32] Merle to the roof because he was assaulting T-dog Rick and Glenn went to get a vehicle they could use to leave the building and left the key with T-dog when Rick backs the truck up to the building they

[01:15:41] jump in and are well on their way before T-dog explains what happened with the key Rick is not to blame for what happened to Merle he expected Merle to jump into the back of the truck with

[01:15:50] everyone else as has been discussed a little bit in the past I was thinking this week about how fun a Walking Dead What If series could be the first one should be What If Laurie Survived I

[01:16:00] can imagine that character becoming a badass with Judas strapped to her chest I didn't like Laurie the first time through but I'm finding her more sympathetic now and would enjoy seeing her develop

[01:16:09] as a warrior post-pregnancy if they could do an animated series like that that would be so cool but not the same designers as Destiny no like the good writers you know and have the actors come

[01:16:25] back and voice their parts I mean that's a fantasy it'll never happen but it reminds me I know I'm right we're right in the middle of an email here but um recently in the back of one of those Walking

[01:16:34] Dead deluxe reissue color reissues of the comics where Kirkman does a lot of um he writes a lot in the back matter I read that he said he would love to do a Walking Dead animated series that's much

[01:16:47] more faithful to the comic book but he says he doesn't know if AMC would have an appetite for that but that would be pretty fun too there'd be bits in it that would be very hard to watch

[01:16:57] that's right yeah especially the governor and Michonne oh you don't want to see that if you watched Invincible there's some pretty grody stuff on there but there really is horrible um the scene between Herschel and Dale in the horse stable makes me realize how few scenes these

[01:17:13] actors these two actors got together I like them together the scene between Rick and Laurie and the dirt path is I believe the turning point for their relationship her keeping the pregnancy

[01:17:23] from him more than the affair creates a wall between them that Rick refuses to reach over until it's too late it really is a tragic love story and very traumatizing for Rick I'm loving the

[01:17:33] rewatch my 15 year old just asked if we can watch The Walking Dead together so I'll be starting over again with them and we'll have two different rewatches going at the same time should be

[01:17:42] interesting love that Danielle I hope that goes well I'm team Rick here I think he's doing more right than Laurie is but we can all pick up people well just agree to disagree yeah uh Rinaldi Kalik says Jason and Lucy thank you for continuing this rewatch into 2024 I'm

[01:18:01] happy new year to both of you thanks Rinaldi. Aw, thanks Rinaldi. The reason why I love The Walking Dead so much is that even though I ranked this episode Secrets 170 out of 177 on my Walking

[01:18:11] Dead episode rankings I still enjoyed it though it does have its flaws flaws slow episode melodramatic at times weak action scene with Shane and Andrea and Glenn and Maggie wait what is the Shane and

[01:18:24] Andrea action scene the one in the Hyundai or outside? Dale was particularly weak in trying to convince Herschel zombies are corpses but the character interactions in this episode were good for the most part and the characters have layers that I'm enjoying seeing on screen during the

[01:18:43] rewatch making these quote filler episodes enjoyable it's not actual filler just mocking people who always say that about slow episodes Shane's caustic energy and aggressive style has good intentions behind it maybe not when he's talking to Dale but Andrea is more skillful with

[01:19:02] guns because of it yeah when it's with Andrea Shane and Dale's confrontation was really entertaining in my opinion and stems from Shane seeing Dale as an idiot and a nosy bitty busy buddy who will

[01:19:12] get the group killed he also has because Bernthal is so great I think the hint of shame as he's walking away you know he says to Dale hey if I'm really that kind of a person then you know you

[01:19:24] basically threatening him but then he kind of does a little head dip that's sort of like something else in there too he just picked on granddad yeah yeah Dale's moral rigidness may

[01:19:35] come across as sanctimonious and arrogant it does bother me at times but it comes from a good place this is shown by his moral advice for Glenn improving Glenn's self-confidence and Glenn's willingness to sacrifice to help the group but by volunteering for supply runs I'm not

[01:19:50] sure exactly what advice you're talking about but I agree that most of the time it comes from a good place not always Herschel is in denial because he's too scared to say goodbye to his wife and

[01:20:01] stepson he doesn't want to confront the fact that his loved ones are dead yes it's stupid but it comes from a place of unprocessed grief Maggie may be being unfair by being angry at Glenn but

[01:20:12] she's torn between loyalty to her father and her romantic feelings for Glenn hence the hey let's just have sex and not talk to each other requests from her Rick isn't as naive as simpleton as his

[01:20:24] critics think he is Rick confirms he knew about Laurie's relationship with Shane when Laurie confesses to Rick it's clear Rick just wanted to move on from this situation by not talking about

[01:20:33] it for the benefit of the whole group and to not draw attention away from the missing Sophia I don't know I think he just like consciously realized he was aware of that in that moment

[01:20:43] that's the way I thought Andrew Lincoln portrayed it that's the power of the writing on The Walking Dead even a bottom 10 episode has good scenes looking forward to the next episode on the rewatch

[01:20:53] keep up the good content Rinaldi can you write in and tell us like your bottom three I'm curious I know I want to know what the worst episodes are our friend Dina has written in and she starts this is a long one tip of the day don't drink

[01:21:08] wine while rewatching episodes alcohol induces sympathy for characters you love to dislike behold the first glass of wine Laurie it seems is not the bitch Maggie thinks she is although I also thought so the first three times I watched this episode instead she's in a state of utter

[01:21:23] fright and feeling very much alone the look on her face when Carl unwittingly belittles her by calling her a housewife heartbreaking and she interprets a sensible life death comment as a loss of joy I think she's incorrect Carl is just growing up she's reading meaning into it because

[01:21:38] she's so damn scared of the future I like that yeah I can agree with that after she expresses fear bringing a child into the world only to live a horrible life Rick accuses how could you ever

[01:21:48] think that how could you even think that what how could she not think it and yet she's brave enough to do it anyway fabulous dialogue and acting in that brutal and honest exchange between Rick and

[01:21:58] Laurie I also you're making me think differently about some of this stuff and that sentiment you just had about Rick saying how could you even think that and you said how could she not think

[01:22:08] it that's a very good point too so I'm a little bit more team Laurie there Shane is also drift and suffering he's trying so hard to do the right thing he tells Laurie and Rick about Carl's

[01:22:18] thieving ways because they are the parents he's supportive of them and abides by their decisions well done Shane he's clearly struggling with his very normal feelings for Laurie and is trying to overcome them the second glass of wine had me cheering for him then Dale confronts him about

[01:22:31] Rick and Otis and Shane easily slips over the edge into self-delusion and menace still I felt his pain for most of the episode the third glass of wine didn't budge my opinion of Andrea she still annoyed

[01:22:43] me Shane telling Andrea that she shoots like a girl did anger me I confess but I re-watched the scene caught the subtle smirk on his face he was not being a macho dick rather he insulted her where

[01:22:52] she knew it would hurt to incite anger and was pleased when he saw his method working yeah I agree in high school I had an English lit teacher that gave me my first f ever he wrote in red sharpie

[01:23:02] if you can't write don't bother going to college I can assure you that I earn nothing but A's on my future on future thesis papers that semester and Shane softens his methods and shows his confidence

[01:23:13] by asking her to be his backup shows his confidence in her by asking her to be his backup good job Shane after Daryl forgives Andrea for shooting him my husband scoffed she always

[01:23:23] gets off too easy to which I replied and this episode proves it cue the sex scene go green Hyundai and I suppose Andrea gets a cheer too but I think the Hyundai is more deserving I am now done

[01:23:33] with the wine and switching to water once again there is some fine comedy in this episode with Daryl's comment and T-dog scolding Jimmy oh yeah the gangster shit but the finest comedic balancing

[01:23:44] act is Steven Young's acting well and trying to keep secrets as a delight culminating in that delicious land there are walkers in the bar and Laurie's pregnant the subtle comedy act ends in the pharmacy when he saves Maggie and subsequently takes her fear and anger ridden tirade stoically

[01:23:59] Maggie's outburst also awakens Glenn's own sense of self-worth this change in him is evident when he approaches Laurie as an equal and sees her pain and loneliness and simply offers her support

[01:24:08] and encouragement he empowers her rather than frets at her as he had been and he doesn't question her decision like Rick did he merely offers her an alternative with the prenatal vitamins it's a

[01:24:18] beautiful exchange now let's get back to Carl an astute observer that everything is food for something else that's because Patricia is wringing her neck to feed her friends and family my great grandmother also used to ring chickens necks to feed her friends and family there's a link there

[01:24:34] somewhere maybe it's as Rick says we are the walking dead thanks Dina that was wonderful Dina sent um her picture of her Daryl tattoo oh it's awesome it's so beautiful good I mean

[01:24:50] I don't have any tattoos because I just don't want to commit to something that I might not like later down the road but if I did get one I would really stress over getting a good artist because I would

[01:25:01] want it to be so good and this is like beautiful shading and it's just really so well done yeah I also remembered when she mentioned Patricia and Patricia and Beth look so similar I thought

[01:25:13] for ages Patricia was Beth's mom like when they're standing next to each other like we want to learn how to shoot I'm like oh my god they really look alike interesting yeah all right

[01:25:23] we have a few calls we got two from Steve Brown who is now with us on the rewatch he hasn't sent anything in until now so I'm happy to get a live Steve and he has one that's a general thought

[01:25:34] which one do you want to hear first the live Steve or the general oh let's go live live live live hello the cast of us this is Steve and I was not going to send one for this I was

[01:25:45] going to wait until I finished watching it but gosh this rewatch of the walking dead and episode secrets starts with like nobody Glen can keep a secret at all and of course Andrea is showing out

[01:26:00] to be the best mark who the conversation between Dale and um oh what is um Maggie's father's name the character oh it's escaping me now it's green but yeah that was rough man him talking to Dale

[01:26:18] Steve it's her show when these things are still worth keeping alive or not oh it's tough hey Shane um that's not the way to teach someone to shoot maybe some people respond to that kind of

[01:26:34] badgering when they shoot but I know I didn't wow and and Lori has a legitimate concern about her baby growing up and we know what jude is going to become but

[01:26:47] to uh grow up in this world of yeah fear and well do like that she is it kind of Glen lost left him off the hook here for telling Dale oh I forgot about the argument between Maggie and Glen

[01:27:04] about the uh the abortion pills oh I don't think I need to get into the whole politics of it so I won't so he brought Andrea about here specifically for target practice well I guess it worked oh

[01:27:20] this is gross I remember on the way the way back from this Andrea's so hyped up they stop and she and Shane have sex ew how smart is Dale that he knows when they rolled up that they had

[01:27:34] sex yeah he knows oh and I forgot about uh Shane threatening Dale I have no words to finish this episode so um see you next week so he said badgering didn't work when it sounds like he

[01:27:52] was bad because I know Steve was in the military and maybe there were some mean instructors or something and he didn't like it that's interesting I like his um he pointed out about um Lori and

[01:28:03] Glen kind of reconciling and Lori forgiving Glen for uh telling see I think that's quite right she shouldn't have put him in that position yeah yeah and I'm glad that she figured it out right away

[01:28:14] it's nice to see when they do nice things I mean as I've said before this season doesn't have like a an antagonist in the traditional sense it's sort of shame but not really so it has to be like a lot

[01:28:28] of people are very reasonable with each other yeah it's good all right here's his general thought hello the cast of us this is Steve and this is just some general thoughts I'm finally getting

[01:28:41] caught up on uh the podcast hopefully I'll catch up to you before Chupacabra if not I'll be there after Chupacabra but um I you asked a question in the last podcast about if anybody

[01:28:55] didn't know about the barn I was completely clueless the first time I watched I had no until it was revealed I had no idea but now as I'm watching I'm just now in episode two of season two

[01:29:08] and Herschel is talking about how there's going to be a cure and we're going to get past this and all those all these things showing that he doesn't believe the people are actually dead so

[01:29:21] really the foreshadowing was there I just didn't catch it so all right uh talk to you later good point yeah I don't think anyone so far we've gotten answers now from a handful of people

[01:29:32] and they've all said similar no one has said they figured it out no all right one more call from Archmaester Rennie. Rennie the thing I wanted to remark on in this episode is that I think Shane

[01:29:48] actually is a really good teacher he's a complex guy he's not a simple villain um so he does push Andrea too hard when he's having her shoot at that swinging log he misjudged that but then when

[01:30:06] they're in the subdivision he stays very calm which keeps her very calm and he lets her do what she needs to do to take the shot and that's a breakthrough for her and that kind of empowering

[01:30:25] a student to make their own breakthrough like that is I think really good teaching the one thing that drives me crazy about all that target practice is how much ammunition they go through and ammunition

[01:30:45] is no longer a renewable resource that's the kind of survivalist detail that always just drives me crazy in this show and in a lot of shows like this but I know it's about the character drama

[01:30:59] not about the mechanics of survival so in terms of character drama Shane did display himself as a very good teacher if um also a complicated and not entirely um good guy frankly though I don't

[01:31:22] really think that much of Dale either he's a busy body and a manipulator and I just don't think he's half as smart as he thinks he is. Fair points Randy, fair points all. All right that is our show episode 561 thanks for listening everyone thanks to everybody who wrote

[01:31:46] or called in some really good messages this week uh next episode will be The Walking Dead season two episode seven Sophia's in the barn which you'd think we'd have figured that out by the title

[01:32:00] guess who's in the barn excellent uh no it's called pretty much dead already if you want to write in or leave us a voice message about who you think is in the barn you can find all our contact

[01:32:13] details at contactinformation at podcastica.com yeah who else is in there uh and while you're there please check out our other podcasts we just uh well right now they're doing Echo this new

[01:32:30] Marvel show that's the first TVMA Marvel show and it's Kirk and Penny and Sidney and Alex and they're a really fun group and they just got off doing Loki with Penny joining them for this one

[01:32:45] they have a good rapport they really go deep into the details of Marvel Kirk knows everything comics so they cover all the bases I would check that one out fun this episode is made possible by

[01:32:55] Patreon supporters like Andrea Cook who pledges their support at patreon.com slash Jason Kabassi so thank you to Andrea Andrea was the one who we said don't get bit too in The Walking Dead finale

[01:33:08] at the live podcast. Oh fun hey Andrea. So thanks Andrea hope you're still listening all right that is our show thanks for listening don't get bit Christy Polus don't get picked