563: The Return of the Living Dead (1985)

[00:00:00] Podcastico! Who's there? Power Rangers! The Cast of Us, a podcast dedicated to the shows, The Walking Dead. Hey Zed Heads, welcome to the podcast, I'm Jason. And I'm Lucy. And I'm Karen. Yay! And this is The Cast of Us, episode 563.

[00:01:00] And this episode we're covering the classic 1985 zombie movie, The Return of the Living Dead. Brains! The end. No. End of podcast. That's our coverage. Welcome Karen. Karen, I'm glad you wanted to join us for this one. Why did you want to join us for this one?

[00:01:23] Because, mainly because you and Lucy equals awesome. So yes, anytime you and Lucy are in the room, I want to be in that room. Unless The Walking Dead is involved. That's a lot of work.

[00:01:42] But also this movie seemed like it would be more of a, like a silly romp. I remember one point, maybe a couple of times you saying what you liked about zombies is the goofiness.

[00:01:55] So I'm curious if this, well we'll see what happens, but it's The Return of the Living Dead and why don't we just get into it in general? Had you not seen this before, right Karen?

[00:02:07] I have not, which is strange that I hadn't seen it, but no, I hadn't seen it. We never covered it, weirdly. No, we are right now. But we said brains a lot, but this is the first for people who don't know time any zombie

[00:02:21] ever said brains in a zombie movie. And then that sort of became a thing with zombies, but I think a lot of people forgot that it came from this movie. So how was it to watch it? Did you like it? Did you hate it?

[00:02:35] I thought it was super goofy and really silly. It feels very 1985 and kind of low budget. And it seems like the kind of movie where if you wanted to maybe eat an edible and watch a good splatstick genre zombie movie that may not challenge you too much intellectually

[00:02:59] and you just want to like have some fun, this might be your zombie movie. I'd say that's fair. What about you, Lucy? I'd never seen it before either. Yeah, it was super goofy. I loved that. We watched it with a friend who's been really unwell.

[00:03:18] So I was like, well, I have to watch a goofy film for the podcast. So we'll come over and watch it. And I think he appreciated the distraction. That's cool. I had seen it when I was probably a teenager was the last time I'd seen it.

[00:03:33] It's been a long time. I wasn't sure at all how it would hold up. The only two things I really remembered were this skeletal zombie with the eyeballs who's been dubbed Tar Man by the fans and boobs.

[00:03:54] And I was pretty sure it would probably have been better without the boobs in today's climate. It's still revered as a classic. I was like, yeah, we got away. And also that it's the first time any zombie ever said brains. So I loved it.

[00:04:08] I thought it was fun. I think I liked it even more now than I did back then because I do remember feeling like, oh, this is just too goofy back then. But now I don't know. I like it when a movie does what it sets out to do.

[00:04:22] And sometimes when a movie is very ambitious but doesn't achieve that ambition, even though it's got more going on for it, I don't like it as much. This movie is just a silly, like you said, Karen Campy kind of romp B movie.

[00:04:37] It's the best kind of B movie in my opinion. It was really fun. It was kind of creepy at times. And it totally did what it set out to do, which wasn't a whole lot, but I thought it was good. I enjoyed it a lot.

[00:04:47] Not without its flaws, but we'll get into that. So want to go first, Karen? First point? Sure. Okay, so regarding the aforementioned 80s style was just incredible and over the top. And there were a lot of goofy movies in the 80s.

[00:05:10] And this one really just basically is like a hodgepodge sort of a mixed bag of all the stereotypes from the 80s. So like you have the punks, you have the valley girl, you have it's like the breakfast

[00:05:28] club of the breakfast club crew got together and decided to make a zombie movie. They have the brain, the athlete, the basket case, the princess, the criminal, they all were hanging out together weirdly.

[00:05:41] And I looked at that and I was like, wait a second, those people would never like hang out together. What is happening? But I just decided to go with it. I watched it by myself, which I think is a mistake.

[00:05:55] You should watch this movie with a group of people and be prepared. Probably not David though. I don't know. David actually would have been perfect for it. Yeah, if we had had an edible beforehand. I was kind of thinking that there's the red haired girl punk hair.

[00:06:15] Yeah, trash. There's yeah, there's the guy with the popped collar, the black guy and the camo pants. I could see him. That's sort of still kind of a burnout culture or something maybe or fringe culture. Maybe that's a better term for it.

[00:06:33] And then the guy with the chain hooked from his ear to his mouth. That's very punk, the Mohawk guy. So I think they're pretty punk most of them. But then there's like the preppy couple. And then the one girl who's sort of in between.

[00:06:47] But I think they're except for the preppy couple, they kind of have a punk vibe. All of them. I thought I don't know. Not quite as varied as The Breakfast Club. Okay. Maybe I don't know. Yeah. That makes sense. All very 80s. Yes, all very 80s.

[00:07:07] Yeah, I was I mean, this was my first point was sorry, it's gonna sound like I'm being really rude, and I'm not. But like, what were the 80s like? I was really alive for that much of it. So I don't know.

[00:07:21] My memories of the 80s are very vague. To me, this feels like a movie. It was weird. It was like, this seems like a movie that would come out today and be like, this is what we think the 80s were like.

[00:07:33] But yeah, it came out smack dab in the middle of the 80s, 1985. But it was a total, you know, over the top parody. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Um, Lucy, the 80s were not like this movie.

[00:07:51] I mean, there was one kid in my school who came right out of this movie. Well, he looked like a total nerd one year, just I mean, the script. And then the next year, he had a big mohawk and on the side of his head, he wrote fuck.

[00:08:05] And he had black clothes. Was it Timothy Olyphant? Was it him? No. Dammit. Timothy Olyphant was the popular jock, but a good guy though. Was he in your class? No, he's a senior when I was a freshman. He was a swimmer.

[00:08:27] But there are other famous people from Modesto. Yeah, what's his name? The guy who plays Hawkeye. Jeremy Renner. Jeremy Renner. He was in my class. And Spike from Buffy. Oh, really? I forgot. I didn't. I don't think I knew that. Yes.

[00:08:43] Oh, they do a lot of white dudes in Modesto. Yeah, for sure. It's probably more diverse now. I felt like I was in the Midwest, honestly. Yeah. Did you really? I grew up in the Midwest. Farmland everywhere. Very conservative values in the town.

[00:09:00] I think that Silicon Valley where I grew up was more diverse in the 80s because of Silicon Valley. It attracted engineers and tech people from all over the world. So my best friends growing up were from the Philippines, from Burma. Wow. Wow. From Benetton. Yeah.

[00:09:19] Based on the conversation, you can tell how we appreciated the movie. I'm sorry. I was genuinely really like... Because I'm kind of with Karen. I was like, oh, well, they're all an archetype. They're stereotypes. What are the archetypes? And then it's like we're leaning quite heavily into punk.

[00:09:40] I feel like there's more to it. And the preppy kids don't quite fit in with that. Yeah, it didn't surprise me to learn that Trash and the girl that plays Tina were both strippers prior to this film. I was like, oh, that explains. That explains a lot. Yeah.

[00:09:55] Yeah. I have to say their acting wasn't top notch, but it was perfectly pitched for this film. But yeah, I kind of knew we were in for a wild ride as soon as Trash kind of just ripped her clothes off in the middle of the graveyard.

[00:10:09] Started dancing with this strange, like, I guess they had to... They were forced to sort of cover up her pubic area. Yeah, I was reading about this. She kind of went kind of very pubic rabbit hole. So to speak. It wasn't a merkin exactly, but it was.

[00:10:31] It was like a flesh merkin. It was like a flesh merkin. Yeah, apparently the first time that they shot it, she was just au naturel, unshaven. And then someone on... This is all on IMDB. Someone on the production team was like, you can't show that. Take it off.

[00:10:48] So she got completely shaved, gone on screen. And then the producer was like, oh, God, it's even worse. You could see everything. To make this weird flesh merkin. I was like, oh, wow. Wow. They couldn't just be like, all right, let's just do topless.

[00:11:07] Yeah, they couldn't just be like, why don't we just shoot from the belly button? Yes! Yes! And one thing about the 80s, I mean, you can see this by watching teen movies in the 80s. There was a lot of nudity in movies. And so for a rated R...

[00:11:26] I would say this is a comedy, by the way. It's stereotypical archetypes on purpose. It's silly. But anyway, for a rated R comedy like this, not to have some nudity would have been weird. I'm not excusing it. I'm just trying to explain the context from which this came.

[00:11:42] There was an interesting everyday sexism about it where the men making it were like, oh, only boys will like this film. So we got to have boobs and we got to do this. And then they're like, oh, women might also like this.

[00:11:54] And some women would also like the boobs. But I did find it interesting that they were very like, oh, this is like a male target audience. This is not going to be for everyone.

[00:12:05] And I think they were kind of surprised when it turned out to be a bit of a cult classic. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Back then things were presumed... likes and dislikes of men and women were presumed to be very delineated. Way more than they are now.

[00:12:23] Like girls didn't like comic books or video games. It was presumed, you know, stuff like that. Yeah. I'm so glad that's over. Oh, I don't know. I tried to buy a comic coloring book for my niece the other day on Amazon and it was just like,

[00:12:35] boys coloring book, coloring book for boys. And I'm like, what the f... It's just like they're under three. They don't care anyway. So but yeah, I would agree in terms of marketing films and things that it's much more. It's less.

[00:12:51] It's less the boob formula and more like, okay, let's think about this more broadly. Yeah. One more thing that I liked about the 80s style, by the way, just to put one non-human thing in there, the computer setup in Colonel Glover's house was just chef's kiss, 80s

[00:13:15] computer looking. It's like, it's sort of like, you know, lots of lights and things. It was hilarious. I loved it so much. I also loved that he featured in, like, I think the most pointless scene in a film ever,

[00:13:28] where you just hear his half of the phone conversation. So boring. He's just like, uh-huh. And then what happened? Okay. And what happened then? Right. Okay. And it goes on for like two minutes and I'm like, yeah, I could have just cut to the computer.

[00:13:43] What I got from that is he wasn't surprised by any of it. No. And he knew exactly what to do, but didn't impart that to the person. You know, I mean, it could have been a lot shorter, but yeah, it was just sort of like, all right, understood.

[00:13:59] And then hang up the phone, blow the place up. I loved it. One thing he said was how many acres? The comedic value of it was just so good. It was just like, all right, yeah, uh-huh. This makes no difference. You're all getting blown up anyway. Like, okay.

[00:14:13] The other thing I thought was really wonderfully 80s about it was the music. Like the minute the music kind of kicked in with the opening credits, I was like, oh. Yeah. There's this sort of 80s horror synth pop and this one refrain plays in particular when things

[00:14:29] are getting worse. Yeah. Like when the plume of green smoke goes up and the camera goes down and you see the cutaway down into the graves. It was like, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. It's so good. You're like, yes, things are getting really fucked up now.

[00:14:44] It's awesome. Just like the style of the, it's funny because of the weekend we went to see the holdovers, which is great. If you haven't seen the holdovers, it's so good. But one of the things I hadn't appreciated was like, it's a period piece, not just because

[00:14:58] it's set in the 70s, but they filmed it all like it's the 70s and like the opening credits are like it's the 70s. So it's all running over a very long establishing shot of where they are and then watching this film, which is so 80s so soon after.

[00:15:11] I don't know. I appreciated it a lot because I was like, oh yeah, this is how they established stuff back then. Just that some like, boom, return of the living dead and the face melting. I was like, this is great. This is absolutely fantastic.

[00:15:23] And then there's also this like what I read was called punk-a-billy, like rockabilly slash punk combination. And it's like, yeah, the living dead, baby, the living dead. The music was wild. I loved it. Songs like, oh, so good.

[00:15:42] Just really, I want to sit and listen to the soundtrack because it just really… There's something about, I think even… So I was born in the 80s, but not early enough that I remember any of this, but there's

[00:15:52] something about that style of music that reminds me of films from when I was a kid, that sort of electric twang stuff. I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, I remember that. It's like unsophisticated electric music kind of, you know, when it first started out, it was less nuanced.

[00:16:10] Death rock. So should I do untrustworthy establishment or treatment of women? I mean, both are very 80s, but treatment of women. Yeah. Yeah, since we were already kind of talking about it. So I feel like this movie clearly does not represent women well.

[00:16:34] They're either helpless, they're crying or they're sex objects or all of the above. Or that creepy ass half zombie. Yeah. Oh yeah. The one that was… Even she was like, I'm sad.

[00:16:52] And all this stands out to me so much after this kind of reckoning that we have gone through and are going through as a society lately. I wouldn't blame anyone who were just like, I don't like this movie just because of that. You know, I totally wouldn't.

[00:17:08] It's the sexualization of women and girls were very typical of 80s movies, as I mentioned. Pretty extreme with this girl just walking through the whole movie naked. Reminds me of this vampire movie back then, Life Force. Same thing.

[00:17:24] And I, you know, when I was a 15 year old, I was like, that's hot. Right? Honestly, I think my friend who shall remain nameless, but wasn't Peter enjoyed it also. He's like, oh, she's a cute bum. I'm like, I can't deny she's sexy. Right? Of course.

[00:17:43] But I got a real hit maybe of what it's like. And you guys can let me know anything about this if you want. But for women when watching a parody of Robin Thicke's Blurred Lines video. Do you remember that video? Blurred lines.

[00:17:58] You know, you want it like he's singing that and these hot naked women are dancing around him. And this group of women called the Law Review did a gender switched version of that called Defined Lines with women in suits and boss attitudes and like guys in their underwear,

[00:18:16] prancing and being totally objectified. And I was like watching that like, wow, that's humiliating. I cannot wait to watch that. So excited to watch. And it's like, okay, that's I don't want anyone to have to feel like that. Yeah.

[00:18:37] So, but then there's also, okay, but can we be can we choose to be sexy and be appreciated and desired? Yes. So it's tricky, you know, but something like this, it's not like when the girl says, you know, she's talking about her fantasy.

[00:18:54] Well, the worst way to die would be a bunch of old men to get around me and start biting and eating me alive. First, they would tear off my clothes and she tells our clothes. That's not your fantasy. That's the writer of this movie's fantasy. Yes. Yeah.

[00:19:03] You know, exactly. And it's her being put into this situation by is in someone else's framework. It's male gaze is the whole thing. And so I don't know, like, I don't think anyone should be shamed for feeling desire for whatever they find sexy.

[00:19:22] But also it's what you do with that. And it's also appreciating people for more than just that. And it's there's a lot of things to consider. This movie is not where you go to for a nuanced feminist take. No.

[00:19:37] I think part of the discomfort as well is like, there's been so much talk in the last 10 years about stuff like intimacy coordinators and like how we treat performers. Like there's a whole debate at the moment about the new Yorgos Lanthimos film Poor Things again.

[00:19:52] So we recently renewed our cinema memberships. It just sounds like I go to the cinema a lot because I'm really classy. It's because we get discounted tickets. And it's about Emma Stone spends a lot of that film just butt naked. It's her choice.

[00:20:06] Yeah, and it's like it's her choice. She's very comfortable with that director and she does it. And there's a whole other thing in the film about sex work and how we frame women's bodies.

[00:20:15] But it's one thing to have an actress like Emma Stone talk about her artistic decision to show her body and to commit to the script and stuff. It's another thing when you're like, this guy literally found strippers and was like, do you want to be in a movie?

[00:20:30] There's like a different thing there. I mean, honestly, like this is like I'm fully into my mid to late 30s now. I'm just like she must have been so cold. I saw that too! I just want to put some clothes on, love. It's so cold and you're wet.

[00:20:43] The actors were sweating in some scenes and it didn't make sense for the story. And I read it was filmed in the summer. So I wonder if it was like really hot. Maybe she was having a great time compared to everyone else.

[00:20:55] Yeah, she's like, can we take off our clothes too? And she's like, no. And they gave her such a weird Barbie, like no genitals situation. And then they covered up her top and then they also still had her naked from the waist down. It was all very strange.

[00:21:16] I actually like was debating with myself. I was like, if you only had one toe and you were naked, I was like, I think I'd rather cover my body area in that situation. I was like, would you do that or would you do that?

[00:21:27] I'm like, I think you'd do that. Whether you cover the top or the bottom. Yeah, I think I'd cover the bottom. Me, I would do the top. Just let it all fly. Yeah. But those were they the only two female?

[00:21:43] Yeah, because there were no female paramedics or oh, his wife, the guy's wife, the general's wife. Right. He was scary looking. A bit underwritten. Yeah. Yeah. Horace, you have to come for dinner now. And he's like, no, I'm going to my room, Marjorie or whatever her name was.

[00:22:00] Yes, exactly. End scene. All right. Shall we move on to something else? Let's let's let's. This is pretty small, but I thought it was really funny. The disclaimer at the start of the movie. The movie.

[00:22:21] I love that the phony disclaimer reads, the events portrayed in this film are all true. The names are real of real people and real organizations. That's what they do with Fargo. It's yes, yes, exactly. Exactly. Same quality of writing.

[00:22:42] And I liked that they I like that the whole premise was that they reference the Night of the Living Dead and said, yeah, you know, they're made movie and that was actually based on true events. I like that.

[00:22:57] That that's like a little meta moment inside of this movie. I thought it was great. There's a reason for that, which I will talk about. I was hoping you would have looked it up, Jason, because I was like, I hope Jason has

[00:23:08] done the history on this because I have not done the history on this. Let's hear it. But yeah, yeah. Can we have the context? It's Lucy's turn. Do you want me to?

[00:23:18] Well, I was going to say that one of the things I really liked was the that meta textuality of like the Living Dead. Like so one thing that you get really desensitized to when you cover the Walking Dead a lot is

[00:23:30] that zombies don't exist in the Walking Dead universe. And it's actually one of the most far fetched things about that whole universe. All of the magic that happens and like the garbage people and all that.

[00:23:43] It is mad that like Carl Grimes doesn't know what a zombie is and nobody mentions that and nobody ever says it. Like it's actually, I think the biggest stretch of disbelief for me in that. Yes!

[00:23:52] So it felt really weirdly liberating to watch something where they know what zombies are. They're referring to like, well, how do you kill a zombie? You should know, you've seen the film, you do the brains, blah, blah, blah.

[00:24:03] And I like that that then upped the ante of, but that doesn't work. You have to do other stuff. And I thought that was really cool. And alongside that kind of meta-ness of it, the zombies were goofy as heck, but it was

[00:24:18] really interesting to have a completely different set of rules to play with. Like these zombies are fast, they can think. I was cracking up when they kept asking for more people to be sent. I thought that was so funny. Like more cops, please.

[00:24:31] And then they like ambush them all. I was like, this is brilliant. I hope this is what the variants are like in the spin-off. These are the most terrifying ones ever because you can chop them up and they're still going. And you can correct their brain.

[00:24:50] They're kind of smart and they're fast. I didn't remember that part. I thought 28 Days Later was the first time we saw fast zombies, but it was here. No, no. And this is, yeah, so I find that really exciting.

[00:25:02] It didn't feel like watching a traditional zombie film in that way. Because yeah, I think Jason will talk about this more, but this is very much a break from the Romero style of doing things quite deliberately.

[00:25:16] So you think, okay, the only way to kill them is to burn them. And then that just spreads it around everywhere. Yes. So I was reading, I don't think I ever saw the sequel Return of the Living Dead Part 2, or if I did, I've forgotten it.

[00:25:29] But you would think after what happened at the end of this movie, they blew up this place. But then it was clear that the zombiness was spreading everywhere else, that the next movie would just be the apocalypse. But it's not.

[00:25:41] I think they just sort of flubbed that and went back to a little isolated breakout. It's quite a bleak end as well. It seems to stop quite suddenly. Especially for a comedy. And it's like, holy shit. Yeah, you're like, oh, oh, good. Okay, humanity's back.

[00:25:59] My favorite zombie, almost anything, or one of my favorites is the Resident Evil games. Specifically Part 2, which Karen, you and I did a live stream playing through a little bit of that one time. Oh, wow.

[00:26:12] And at the end of a couple of those games, the army comes in and blows up the city. And I wonder if you would just naturally come to that with this topic, or if they were inspired by Return of the Living Dead in part maybe? Yeah.

[00:26:27] It was, I mean, I just, I loved as well that the, I think one of the things in the ways, I don't know if this is an 80s thing, but with the meta of the guy telling his nephew about what happened.

[00:26:39] And here's me thinking, oh, that will pay off like halfway through the film. Nope, they go straight downstairs and immediately break it, set the disease loose and end up dead. And I'm like, oh, okay. Which is hilarious. And then it's like, credits!

[00:26:51] And I'm like, oh, that's a setup. Cool, I guess. It just really made me, and oh, just the, actually that's a separate point. But yeah, just the animatronics and the practical effects were so good. They were really, really good. Some great zombies.

[00:27:08] Oh, yeah, that meta textualness of it I thought was quite interesting. So are you going to hit us up with some facts? A little bit, yeah. So one of my points is called, is it a sequel to Night of the Living Dead?

[00:27:19] Because it's called Return of the Living Dead. It suggests it is a sequel. Night of the Living Dead came out in 1968. And it sort of is a sequel. I mean, within the movie, they say that that was based on real things.

[00:27:35] But the guy, they told the guy who made the movie that if he told the real story, they'd sue his ass off. So he had to change events, which I guess that's Romero they're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. There was 245 tracks and spray or on marijuana or something.

[00:27:54] He didn't really explain what he meant by that, but it was developed for the army. Army chemical spill leaked in to the morgue. And then the army accidentally sent the bodies to this medical supply company by accident and then couldn't find them.

[00:28:09] But anyway, the significance of Night of the Living Dead is there were zombie movies. I think most people listening know this, but maybe it's a refresher for some. And maybe some people didn't know. But anyway, there were zombie movies for decades before Night of the Living Dead.

[00:28:26] People think of it as the first one, but it's the first of its kind because it revolutionized the zombie genre by introducing the concept of zombies, a slow moving reanimated corpses that crave human flesh and can only be killed by destroying their brains.

[00:28:41] Before that, zombies were usually shown as like mindless slaves controlled by master, like with voodoo or witchcraft. Yeah, they weren't necessarily undead or cannibalistic, which is one reason why I think it's so dumb not to consider things like The Last of Us and 28 Days Later as zombie movies.

[00:29:00] Like over the history of zombies, there have been many types of zombies undead and otherwise. They've always evolved and varied and they continue to. And I think it's all you know, the through line is your grandma is suddenly trying to eat you, you know?

[00:29:13] The undead part is not at all crucial to the formula, never has been. But anyway, The Return of the Living Dead was based on a novel by John A. Russo who co-wrote Night of the Living Dead with George Romero. And they had a dispute. They split.

[00:29:29] They had a dispute over how to handle sequels and they agreed to split the rights with Romero's films using the dead suffix and Russo's using living dead. So Romero's, even with that, I think are considered really to be the main sequels.

[00:29:44] And these are like side movies, but it's technically it's like a split. And Romero's sequels were Dawn of the Dead in 1978, Day of the Dead in 85, which is the same year that Return of the Living Dead came out, Land of the Dead in 2005, Diary of the

[00:29:59] Dead in 2007, Survival of the Dead in 2009. There's actually one upcoming, even though Romero passed, he had written a treatment for a new one, Twilight of the Dead that's supposed to come out pretty soon here, directed by Brad Anderson.

[00:30:12] So most of those movies have pretty good ratings on Rotten Tomatoes. Well, just in case you're curious, like the first four, all the way up through Land of the Dead are rated pretty high and then they fall off after that.

[00:30:25] Russo's sequels are Return of the Living Dead Part II in 88, III in 93, Return of the Living Dead in Necropolis and Return of the Living Dead Rave to the Grave, which both came out in 2005 for some reason. Those all have like a 5% on Rotten Tomatoes. Nice, nice.

[00:30:43] I love this. So anyway... So Russo's are living dead and Romero's are dead. Just dead. Got it. Okay, that's the tell. I always think it's like so interesting when you split a masterpiece and see what comes

[00:31:02] of it because like one of my favorite films is Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which is Michel Gondry and Charlie Kaufman. Yeah. And when you see their individual films, I like them both very much.

[00:31:13] I like Michel Gondry's stuff in particular, but they've never quite got the absolute magic that they had when they did that together. I think Romero, like to me, my understanding is Romero's films were always more political than we maybe gave them credit for at the time.

[00:31:30] And I was trying to watch... It's been talked about a lot. Yeah, I was like trying to watch this with that in mind and I'm like, is it about... A lot of the 80s, like in the UK anyway, my understanding of it is rebellion and punk

[00:31:46] and pushing back against authority. And I was like, is this film about that a little bit? But it doesn't really stick the landing on any of it in the same way. So it interests me. It's a theme for sure. It's definitely a theme. I think it's a theme.

[00:31:59] It doesn't have a lot to say about it. No, it's more like, yeah, my curse is fuck on it. And you're like, okay. I got a lot to say. It's not... What did he say? Yeah, what was it about his... You think this is a costume?

[00:32:12] It's a way of life. And I'm like, oh, okay. It's sort of a costume. Sorry, Jason, I interrupted your flow there. No, I was pretty much... I mean, so when he says that little bit, this guy Frank, about how this movie was based

[00:32:28] on real events, it's not just a clever meta reference, but I think it is to sort of help establish that, hey, this is also a sequel to that movie, you know, because it technically is. It's also interesting.

[00:32:41] I was talking to the friend who I was watching this with about it. Like Romero was quite hostile about The Walking Dead. I don't think he liked it much. I feel like there was some... Not like... He said it was a soap opera. But yeah, he was like...

[00:32:55] If you watch season two, then I can understand why. Oh, Karen, we're deep in the farm right now. Like Sophia just came out of the barn. Shit's going down. Did you see the zombie Jason? Not yet. Not yet. We're having a...

[00:33:09] We're getting a special guest on for that one. Yeah. Grace is coming on so that we can talk about our experience filming it together. I'm going to be late. That's the plan anyway. Yeah, the zombie Grace is visible, I think, at some point. When was Zombie Karen?

[00:33:24] Season three. Yeah. Yeah. I never... Let's see if we can get her for that episode. I'll come on. I'll come on for season three. Okay. And talk about our experience. Yeah, that'd be super fun actually. Yes. Yes, please. Cool. Yay. Yay. That'll be a while.

[00:33:41] I'll put it in the bickering stick. Because right now we got to Sophia coming out of the barn and then we're taking a break because the Rick and Michonne spinoff is coming out next month. It's called The Ones Who Live.

[00:33:53] So we get to find out what happened to Rick after he went off in a helicopter and why he's never come back for his child. And so... James Charles. So we're doing a couple episodes to prepare for that. Then we're doing that.

[00:34:05] Then we're going back to the rewatch. Fascinating. You know what? I can't wait to watch the first episode, see if it's good and listen to what you guys have to say. Danai Gurira is writing on it too. So hopefully that'll be good. Playwright Danai Gurira.

[00:34:21] Did you watch any of Daryl in Paris, Karen? Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. A little bit. So strange watching seasons one and two now with that in my mind because Daryl's this like feral hillbilly. I know. He's in this arena.

[00:34:34] And I'm like, one day he will go to the grave of Jim Morrison. It's so cultured. And care for a young child. Does he actually go to Jim Morrison's grave? Yeah. Stop it. That's the only thing he knows about. Yeah. Pere Lachaise.

[00:34:51] Of course, that's the only thing any of us know. Yeah. No, that's also where Oscar Wilde is. And Chopin. Yeah. I have nothing to add to that. I think there's lots of cats. Those are the three. Yeah, those are the three. Have you ever been there? Yes.

[00:35:07] It's gorgeous. No, I think I thought we went there, but we went to another one. We went to whichever one Alexander Dumas is buried in. Oh, cool. Not specifically to see Alexander Dumas.

[00:35:17] We were just in a graveyard and I was like, oh, look, it's Alexander Dumas and a cat. What's up? Leave it to Lucy to find the adorable. I always find the cat. I'm like, oh. All right. I think it's Karen's turn. All right.

[00:35:34] Let's talk about, I think we touched on a little bit. Let's dive in. Let's dive in deep, sink our teeth into how the zombies look. So I would like to talk about the one in the basement. The one that, what's his tar? Tar head. Tar man. Tar head.

[00:35:54] Tar man. Tar man. I love how the zombies look in this movie. I love specifically how Tar Man looks. And I love the glass panel and him changing inside the glass panel, the wax kind of melting. Yeah. That was so great.

[00:36:14] I loved the headless zombie running around briefly. That made me so happy and it felt very, that reminded me of, did you ever see Jason and the Argonauts? A little stop motion animation-y about that. Oh, delightful.

[00:36:35] And I also like the zombie butterflies because I'm a girl who likes zombies and butterflies. I read how they did those and I was really impressed. They just cut out paper butterflies and someone's off screen with a fan. That's it. Genius.

[00:36:52] You can make butterflies, you can mount fake butterflies on a piece of wood- Just waft them. And waft them. Just waft. It's a great tip. That's a great tip. So that's really all I wanted to say. I just love the look and I thought they were wonderful.

[00:37:08] I loved how, like I said, they're so unstoppable. The first one you see is that split dog, which is sad. Oh, the proof dog! The proof! The proof! And I really love Frank and Freddie. He's kind of a blowhard but likable, I would say, Frank, the older guy.

[00:37:33] And Freddie's this sort of naive, kind of whiny but also likable, hapless fellow. And the way that they panic when they see that dog. Oh my god! Which is what any of us would do. Yes, that's true.

[00:37:54] And then when Bert the boss comes and he makes Frank be the one who has to pickaxe the zombie, even though Frank is like crying and panicking. Bert's like, be brave, Frank, goddammit!

[00:38:07] And then they go to open the door with the combo lock and the Zed bursts out and runs straight for Frank going, brains! And that's the first time any zombie ever said brains. And then the pickaxe doesn't work and so they have to saw his head off.

[00:38:26] Which is fucking hilarious. I mean, it's not as good as Evil Dead but it's in that neighborhood. All of this, right? Splatstick. So something I hadn't noticed but then when I was reading up on the trivia after that's

[00:38:40] interesting is when the zombie runs out he runs for the guy who's not being exposed to the radiation because he's alive and his brain is tasty whereas the other two are technically already dead so he's not that interested in them.

[00:38:56] And I'm like, you know, if they'd figured that out sooner those guys could have been a real asset because they could have gone out there and done stuff. Yeah, it's almost like the guts rubbing the guts. Aha! They had like in-built gut technology but no, didn't do it.

[00:39:10] And then they're the most human zombies we've seen more even than warm bodies because when the paramedics arrive they tell Frank and Freddy, oh you guys are dead. Those paramedics are so, they're just like, well, I don't know, yeah, I think you're dead probably. Yeah.

[00:39:30] They're like whispering, what are you saying? What are you saying? They're dead? I'm like, yes. And then when they tie that one down, the woman that you mentioned and they're asking why do you eat people and she says not people brains and eating brains eases the pain of

[00:39:45] being dead and rotting. And I don't know if this is where I got this but I've always felt in The Walking Dead and I've probably said it many times, you should put any zombie out of their misery because it may be a living hell.

[00:40:00] Like when they didn't get to kill zombie Eric because he was too far off in the distance, I was like, maybe you should go find him. And I feel bad for them in this movie. Yes! Yeah, it hurts to be dead.

[00:40:13] The only thing that will help is eating brains, more brains, life brains. Brains, brains, brains. I had a couple cool moments when Tina goes to the funeral home looking for Freddie, makes her way downstairs and sees that corpse with skull head and eyes tarman.

[00:40:34] And they do that classic Evil Dead Dolly Zoom where the background moves in but her face stays in the same place like holy shit. And then he goes, brains, brains! And her foot goes through the stair, just like Ashes probably has and she's scrambling

[00:40:53] to get away and it's like slowly coming up after her. And the way he moves, this guy is an actor and puppeteer, Alan Troutman. That was what it was performed by.

[00:41:04] And this was his first credit in IMDb but he went on to work a bunch of Muppet stuff with the Jim Henson company. And then of course when these kids are all in the cemetery and the Zeds start crawling

[00:41:17] out of their graves and you see that classic shot of one hand coming up that I always love. That's one of the things I love about this movie is the hordes of zombies doing things, you know?

[00:41:28] Or when one of the paramedics gets in the ambulance and he turns the lights on and there's just all these dead people. Oh my god, that was really cool. And then one just breaks through the door before he has a chance to react and grabs him.

[00:41:41] So there were some great moments like that. I won't go through them all but I thought, you know, it was a cut above. It could have been, it was staged well. There were a lot of great moments that were like, oh my god!

[00:41:54] I have a question and then a point. Where does this land in relation to Thriller? Has Thriller happened yet? That is a great question. I looked this up and I've forgotten. Yeah. Maybe, I think Thriller may have happened. Let me check.

[00:42:13] I know now, now I'll never get that out of my head for a couple of days. Yeah, it's two years after Thriller. Yeah. That's cool. Interesting. I like that. I feel like the AT-Z zombies are high camp. I really love it. They are.

[00:42:32] There's really like, but something I thought and I don't know if this has any substantial basis. I'm not a film and media scholar so I'm not going to phrase this very well. But what I found quite interesting was the older characters.

[00:42:50] So like Frank, Bert and Ernie, who apparently were not deliberately named after Bert and Ernie but that's hilarious. They seem to come from like old school film acting. And I don't know how to describe what I mean by old school film acting, but it's like a

[00:43:05] bit more exaggerated than like, I think we're quite used to quite naturalistic films now. I think like 90s, noughties to now it's much more like… Like Leslie Nielsen style. Exactly.

[00:43:17] I think I read he was in line to play one of these and then couldn't do it for whatever reason. But yeah, it's a little bit more like, oh, Sonny Jim kind of thing.

[00:43:26] I found that really interesting compared to like how some of the younger actors were playing it a little campier, but a little bit more like a John Hughes film sort of thing. And it made for a really interesting disconnect.

[00:43:40] And I thought that the mortician guy was like a whole Nazi backstory with him that we didn't get. His name is like Ernst something very German sounding surname. Kaltenbrunner. And then there's some like S-E stuff on his back. Are we just having this be ambient?

[00:44:05] I feel like it should be a thing. I mean, it's on Daryl's motorcycle. I guess it's because of Merle. Yeah, but I just felt like, oh, they're making a point. Like he's very… That guy's not naturally blonde. They've made a point here that he's blonde.

[00:44:20] So yeah, I thought that was very interesting as well. Yeah, and that begs the question. Okay, so if that's in there, then what are they trying to say with that? Because he's honestly one of the more capable ones. Like he doesn't actually do anything super dumb.

[00:44:37] He just kind of gets on with it. Although it looks like he's going to shoot Tina at the end, which is a bit confusing. Um, yeah, I thought the disparate-ness between the older actors and the younger actors was quite interesting.

[00:44:49] And I think they played up a bit of that generation gap with… Oh, I've forgotten the character's name. Uh, the young black guy who drives away with Bert. I don't know his name. I can't remember his name, but they have this kind of…

[00:45:05] I don't know any of the teenagers' names except for Trash and Suicide. Spider. It was Spider! There's Spider that has a thing and there's a bit of like, what do you know old man sort of thing going on between the two of them. Which…

[00:45:18] Let me tell you their names. Spider, Trash, Chuck, Casey, Scuzz and Suicide. Casey, Scuzz. Classic 80s names. Yes, I really relate. I really do. Maybe the name is Scuzz? No, it's not. It's Freddy. So yeah, I just kind of…

[00:45:45] That's my sort of slightly messy point about the older generation of characters in this. And how that kind of… It was a good contrast. Yeah, I think so. I think so. That sort of leads into my point.

[00:45:59] Untrustworthy establishment because I think the movie has a cynical view of authority. I'm not saying you shouldn't have that, but it's just in there. And so like set in this medical supply center where they sell cadavers for US Army for ballistic tests. Does that really happen?

[00:46:18] Where army wants to blow up corpses just to see how they'll react to their weapons or something like that? Maybe. There is the university. I want to say it's like a school in Tennessee or research center in Tennessee that studies what happens to corpses.

[00:46:39] Do you know about that? No. Yeah. Under what circumstances? Just all different kinds? They… It's to help with forensics. It's a whole forensics institute. Yeah, yeah. What would happen to a corpse if I put a bee on it? Yeah. No. Yes. The forensic anthrop…

[00:47:03] No, it's not the forensic anthropology. The original body farm is on the… The body farm? Yeah. University of Tennessee Anthropological Research Facility located a few miles from downtown on the Alcoa Highway in Knoxville, Tennessee.

[00:47:17] I'm going to donate my body to that and only if I get to dictate what kind of tests they will perform. Cover me with honey. What will happen if you dress a corpse up like a clown? What would happen if… Roll it down a hill. No.

[00:47:36] The body farm is all about that though. I'd like to have a firework put up each nostril and then I would like to be left outside and I'd like to know what happens. Thank you. I want to be chopped up and then super glued back together. Backwards. Oh!

[00:48:03] Could you put my cat's head on my body? And make it say, Well, make a corpse right here. Well, that's only if you and your cat die in a car accident together. Well, you know, a girl can dream.

[00:48:20] My cats and my cat and David and I are all… We've decided we're all three dying in bed at the exact same moment when we're all 90 years old. Perfect. Perfect. My money's on Posy. Posy will change her mind at the last minute and be like, Yeah, it's okay.

[00:48:37] You guys go. I'll eat you. Dive out the window. I'm actually okay if my cat ends up dining on me until they discover my rotting corpse. I'm fine with that. And that's how you know you're a cat person. You can request that at the body center or whatever.

[00:48:55] Yeah. Body farm. Okay, so back to the seriousness of this. Yes, this very, very serious. So we see this colonel early on and a quick few lines of dialogue to establish that he's a total dick. His wife says, Hello, dear. How was your day? The usual crap.

[00:49:19] I'm sorry. He goes, What's for dinner? Your favorite lamb chops. I had them for lunch. I had them for lunch, asshole. It's so funny. And he's in this palatial estate. So he represents both the wealthy class and the military establishment. He's just the worst. Yeah. He really is.

[00:49:39] All this is happening, the zombie stuff, because the army was experimenting and then they fucked up and sent it to the wrong place. And every time they try to solve it, it just becomes worse. You know, at the end, the bomb just spreads it everywhere.

[00:49:50] And so it's like reckless, selfish actions leading to people being harmed. And it's interesting that the movie was written and directed by Dan O'Bannon, who wrote the screenplay for Alien and co-wrote Total Recall because Alien is about authorities being nefarious

[00:50:09] to and sending people into dangerous situations to get these aliens to use for bioweapons or whatever, you know, putting people in danger and people suffer. And even in Total Recall, I think the mayor was the bad guy and spoilers, but you couldn't trust the establishment.

[00:50:25] So Dan O'Bannon has a thing about this. He seems like a highbrow name to have attached to this film, but I guess. Yeah. I mean, like I'm saying, when you think about it, it kind of makes sense because there's that theme of establishment being fucked up.

[00:50:46] But this is the one that he wrote and directed. He only wrote Alien and or co-wrote Alien and wrote Total Recall. He didn't direct either one of those. So maybe this is what you get with you get the full Dan O'Bannon package. You get everything. Anything else, Karen?

[00:51:07] No, I think we pretty much covered it. Um, yeah. I mean, besides the love I have of giving some of the Zeds vocal and reasoning ability. I think that is. I think that's funny. But other than that, I think we covered all my points. How about you two?

[00:51:27] Come in, dispatch, send more paramedics. I had some fun lines that I enjoyed. Do it, do it, do it. I think the mean that the mean governor being like, Christ Ethel really made me laugh. So it's like, poor Ethel. She just made some land chops.

[00:51:46] Let's go back and forth. I liked when I like Freddie whining about rigor mortis setting in. Now my arms and legs are cramping. I had well, it ain't working now, Frank. Are you saying the movie lied? I like the movie. That's a great line.

[00:52:07] Or when the girl is crying and she goes, John, I never did like you. Oh my God. I had another one. I had another one. Are you on PCP? That felt very 18. Are you on PCP? I'm like, oh.

[00:52:30] I liked when Freddie, what they lock him below the floorboards or something. They locked him underneath. They go up into the roof and then he's. Yeah, the attic. Oh, and he's down below. Okay. And he's like, Tina, it was wrong for you to lock me up.

[00:52:44] I had to hurt myself to get out, but I forgive you, Tina. And I know you're here because I can smell your brain. There's also a moment where Tina comes up with something and all the men are like, Tina, that really is a good idea.

[00:53:02] Which I always just like wonderfully patronizing. What a shock. Not the feminist go to movie. Not the feminist manifesto we were hoping for. Nobody phoning the number as well cracked me up. It's like, but there's a number on the side of the canisters and they're like,

[00:53:19] no, we're not going to phone that. We're not going to phone that. Yeah, I know. Well, they may have just been blown up immediately. So who knows? Nah, you never know. You never know. Oh, and the brains are, the skulls are even softer than in The Walking Dead.

[00:53:33] All you needed to do is just take a little nibble and you got like a full bit of brain. Oh yeah. Yum. I think it would be hard to get like a real mouthful of brains that way. Your skull's quite thick, right? You'd have to kind of... Right!

[00:53:47] I mean, you know, I haven't had brain surgery nor have I performed brain surgery. I'm going to weigh in. She did bite many skulls back in college. I have seen brain surgery performed in a variety of dramas, you know, and just the other day,

[00:54:11] in fact, what's that band? Something of a Down? System of a Down. System of a Down. Apparently the guitarist from System of a Down had brain surgery the other day. I'm not making this up. And they had him play music while they were performing the brain surgery.

[00:54:34] Super cool. So he had his guitarist, there's a picture of him having brain surgery while he's holding his guitar. You're making this up. No! You think? I'm just kidding. That's interesting. Yeah. I know someone who sang opera during their brain surgery. Was he like playing a song?

[00:54:49] He's like... I want a rock right here. Wow, you really have System of a Down music. I forgot what their songs are. I want to know who sang opera during their brain surgery. Yeah, it's a friend of mine's sibling.

[00:55:13] Yeah, it's something to do with keeping your brain, like keeping the person awake and engaged while they're doing stuff to their brain. It's mad, but it does happen. Yeah, and make sure you're not monkeying with the wrong place. So it's hard to get past your thick skull.

[00:55:30] Like they use power tools to do it. Oh man. Yeah. Oh, this movie's dumb. Well, it's just scientifically inaccurate then, isn't it? It did remind me of the one thing that I think Fear of the Walking Dead did that was really cool

[00:55:47] and the main show hasn't done, which is have the zombies... Ended. Yeah, ended. Killed my soul. Have the zombies in the mortuary. Oh yeah. They had like... It was so cool, Karen. They had like embalmed corpse zombies. So they looked... Oh, it was so creepy.

[00:56:04] Like they looked all waxy and... Oh, it was brilliant. Like it was so, so good. And that, the mortuary reminded me of that. I was like, oh yeah, that was really cool. Yeah.

[00:56:14] When I saw that on Fear, I'm like, oh, they're doing something that I would have hoped a zombie show would do like more of that kind of thing. At some point. Walking Dead never did. No. When you've been embalmed, they keep the brain there.

[00:56:30] They just drain the blood. They replace the... I think they replaced the blood, but they kind of fill you with formaldehyde. I see. Fun fact, when I was young, I wanted to be a mortician.

[00:56:43] It was a weird thing that I decided what I would really want to do is be a mortician. I've been thinking about what kind of jobs to get because... And I'm like, embalmer? No. I feel like it's very life affirming. Well, it's interesting.

[00:56:57] I was involved in planning a funeral a while back and the embalmer and the... I don't know what the word for it is, but the person who makes the corpse look human for being viewed, they gave us a little questionnaire about the person and they wanted

[00:57:16] to know about them. And I was a bit like, oh. And they're like, well, it's because they want to feel like they have a sense of who the person was. And I'm like, okay. So they asked the stuff like what was their favourite album?

[00:57:25] What kind of person were they? What kind of music did they like? And it was very strange, but I think nice. At the time, I was a bit like, I don't know how I feel about this.

[00:57:34] But afterwards, I was like, I guess if you're sitting with someone's body, you do kind of wonder who they were and what they were interested in and who the person is. I love that. Well, it's like one of the...

[00:57:47] I don't remember if I've ever seen an open casket funeral except for this one time with my great grandfather. And he looked not like himself at all. And he was clearly made up and whatever they do to make them look presentable.

[00:58:06] I mean, he died of natural causes, so he wasn't in an accident or anything. But he just... I think what they do can... You can make someone look different ways depending on what you do. And they did not make him look like himself. And it was really weird.

[00:58:23] It's weird. I think our cultural stuff about death is quite... I remember going to a funeral seven years ago of a friend's parent. And I was with another friend and he's from a part of the world where they don't bury their dead.

[00:58:38] And it was the first burial he'd ever been to. He was really freaked out. Yeah, he was really freaked out. He was just like, so did they just put them in the ground now? And I'm like, yeah. And he was like, they just leave them there.

[00:58:49] And I'm like, yeah. And then he was like, oh, and all his experiences at funerals had been open cremations, which to me seemed really strange. But I'm like, well, this is just different cultural ways of how we deal with death.

[00:59:03] And it always stood out to me because I was like, oh, this is pretty run of the mill. It's a burial. Nobody likes thinking about it, but it's what we do. And he was just like, oh, this seems really dehumanizing. Like the way we do it is this.

[00:59:14] And... A funeral pyre. Yeah, a funeral pyre. I was at... My friend, my college roommate had durofibromatosis disease and he died at age 28, I think. And I was at his funeral and a bunch of our college buddies were there. And it was all an Indian.

[00:59:33] He was an Indian guy. And so then before I knew it was happening, they asked a few of us to come and grab the coffin to carry it at the end, you know? And it was very emotional, like more open with their emotions and wailing and crying.

[00:59:49] And then we took it around to the back and I couldn't understand anything. And then they had to shove it right into the fire to be cremated right there. And it was so intense because I didn't know that was about to happen. Yeah.

[01:00:05] This film really, this like Return to the Living Dead really made me face my demons about like, I neither want to be buried nor cremated. I'm like both seem bad, but also like, I guess I'm dead. So I don't care. But you know...

[01:00:19] You can get, I think they have now mushroom shrouds. Oh, yeah. You can, you can... Like the last of us. Yeah, exactly. You can get a shroud and it's got been inoculated or I'm sorry, it's been covered with mushroom

[01:00:39] spores and they put you without any, you know, formaldehyde. They put you in the ground and the mushrooms, you know, feast on you, which is delightful. I wonder what kind of mushrooms. Yeah, I know, right? And I love that whole wouldn't that be cool? All right.

[01:01:01] And I think you're both ready for, I have a book recommendation. Oh, yeah. When I was young, I mean, in high school, I was very much into Yves Le Noir. And he wrote a book called The Loved One. Oh.

[01:01:17] It's a short satirical novel about his time in Hollywood and about a, it's sort of a triangle love story about a woman who happens to be, she does the makeup in a mortuary. Oh. It is so funny and weird and delightful. And it is fabulous.

[01:01:45] I really, really recommend it. Yves Le Noir. I'm going to check that out. He's fantastic. One of my all time favorite TV shows top three is Six Feet Under, which is about a family that operates a funeral home and the father dies.

[01:02:03] And so the wayward son comes home to join his brother in taking care of business. And it's a family drama. And it's so good. It's written by Alan Ball, who went on to do True Blood. It's got the guy who played Dexter Hall. Michael C. Hall.

[01:02:21] Michael C. Hall. He's in it. It's very, very good. I need to go back and rewatch it again. It's been a long time. But every episode begins with a death. And it's usually somebody random and then they interact with the funeral home. And it's really good.

[01:02:37] I still think about doing funerals. Like not mortuary stuff, but funeral directing. I'm like, you know, if you can give people pragmatic help and comfort at that point in their lives, then that's a good thing to do. It would be great.

[01:02:55] But I've loved it because so many businesses are actually just family owned. People don't tend to want to go into it. So especially in the UK, it tends to be like, yeah, it's just been in the family for so long.

[01:03:07] But I mean, after this film did make me think twice. I was like, but in the zombie apocalypse, it might not be the best place to be. You would be eaten first. I would be first. I did like that the guy put himself into the cremation tube.

[01:03:21] But I thought that was funny. But then I read that it was because the actor didn't want to be outside in the rain. So he's like, why don't I just kill myself in the cremation thing? That would be better, right? And he's like, yeah, I love that choice.

[01:03:32] It was a poignant moment. It was so good. And he puts his little wedding ring on. I love that. I love that. Don't let them make me a monster. But not a great way to die, let's face it. No, awful. Not good. Not good. No.

[01:03:48] I'd rather have a zombie kill me. Honestly. Be quicker. But the thing is, in this movie, the only way you can die and know for sure you're not going to come back and be in pain is to be burnt. That's why he did it.

[01:04:02] Let's spread the smoke over all the city. Yeah, to infect you all. All right, we're back. It's time for Listener Moans, Groans, and Grunts. Brains. More brains. More brains. Let's hear from the brains of our listeners. Karen? Andy Fisher says, Dina! That's awesome. Amazing.

[01:04:55] Mark McBurney says, I think this is the first ever zombie movie I ever watched. Romero is and always will be the standard bearer when it comes to this genre. Ryan Shields says, send more paramedics. And he says, this and the first was my birth of love for zombies.

[01:05:15] Being a punk rock fan, I really love the second. Oh, I think she's talking about this as the second after Night of the Living Dead. All the characters are just so great in the second. Karen Shee writes, I love Karen.

[01:05:30] Listen, I know I'm not a cool or fun person. Wrong, Karen! You are a cool and fun person. I could not agree more. Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about. The S in my last name stands for sonambulant. Wrong! Karen Sonambulant Shee.

[01:05:48] It stands for super amazing, wonderful woman. Anyway, maybe that's why it took me three times to get through the movie for the first time yesterday. I hear you, girl. That's dedication. I hear you, girl.

[01:06:00] It goes to show I was never drawn to The Walking Dead because of the zombie genre, but because of its characters and long form storytelling. Yeah. Also, cadavers plus seeing bodies on an embalming table freaks me the F out.

[01:06:13] That's not to say there aren't memorable characters or scenes in Return of the Living Dead. That yapping half dog, man, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to laugh or recoil. Probably both. Yes. I suppose suicide had some depth. Quote, you think this is a fucking costume?

[01:06:33] This is a way of life. Noted, sir. I was sad that he was the first to go with such a brutal chomp to his brain. I'm also glad this movie inspired punk culture and punk fashion, or lack thereof, with what with Trash losing all her clothes.

[01:06:52] A 90s kid, I don't have the same nostalgia for the 80s trends and aesthetics as some of you do. Sorry. Like the Cinthy film score though. Uh, really, I just wanted to say an enthusiastic hi to me. Karen, yay! The other Karen.

[01:07:11] Glad to have her back on the podcast. Aw, love that girl. Sending love to all three of you. Thanks, Karen. Aw, right back at you, Karen. She's lovely. Thanks, Karen. I wouldn't have blamed you if you just gave up after the first try, but

[01:07:26] she started it three times and pushed through. That is dedication. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like, yeah, because, uh, yeah, that's a great point that The Walking Dead, the reason why it was such a huge hit is because it drew in horror fans, but also

[01:07:44] just had the character drama and this has no, nothing like that character drama, that grounded feel, none of that. No. This is really the other end of that spectrum. Yeah. Um, Matthew Randall, hey Matthew, has sent a nice long response for which he starts,

[01:08:05] sorry, this is so long. You're forgiven, Matthew. So Matthew says, this marks a real departure from the Romero classics we'd seen so far. It's written by Dan O'Bannon, who also wrote the screenplay for Alien, which is probably my absolute favourite film of all time.

[01:08:20] Very accurate cadavers in this. The pool blood where they'd been laying is very accurate and actually gave me some nasty flashbacks. Oh, I'm sorry to hear that, Matthew. The events portrayed in this film are all true. Ha ha ha.

[01:08:33] Taxidermy dogs and butterflies coming back to life is such a clever and spooky way of letting us and the characters know what's up. Plus, this is the first time really where the characters actually understand what's going on, or at least they think they do.

[01:08:45] They remember the film said destroyed the brain, but that doesn't work here. Uh oh, it worked in the movie. Trash is taking off her clothes again. Every friendship group has one. If yours doesn't, it's you. Put your clothes back on.

[01:09:00] Matthew, all three of us are naked right now. Oh no! Oh god. Our friend group. A fully yellow naked dude looking like a streaking Simpson came sprinting out of that room yelling brain. It's very funny. Why would Freddy be going into a mortuary?

[01:09:17] Asks his friends who are hanging out in a cemetery. This film is great because they don't do anything wrong. I mean, other than touching the tank with the zombie in it to begin with, but I don't blame them for that. But they destroy the brain.

[01:09:28] Well, when that doesn't work, they cut the head off. When that doesn't work, they try to burn it up. Who would expect that that would make it worse? Yeah. I'll come back to it later, but I don't like that they could talk.

[01:09:37] That takes me completely out of it, especially the one that literally has no lungs, although the zombie looks so good. Wow, I can't believe how good that looks for something made nearly 40 years ago. The issue with this though is that it's possible to feel empathy for them.

[01:09:52] They aren't being intentionally malicious. It's just they're in so much pain and this is the only way they found to quell it. Part of the reason zombies make such good antagonists, especially in video games, is

[01:10:01] that you don't have to feel bad shooting hundreds of them in the head like you may do if you did the same to regular human opponents. That sort of compassion takes away from that. That said, it can work.

[01:10:12] My favourite example is Marvel's zombies where the story actually follows from the undead's point of view and you see them struggling with the morality of what they're doing as they try to deal with the insatiable hunger for the flesh of their peers.

[01:10:25] When the nudist friend comes back to life, it's magnificent. Chekhov's death scenario explanation. I'll drive. No, I'll drive. Hey, fuck you. I hope you've been reading these like a live Steve. Frank being loose enough to commit himself is weird.

[01:10:39] The line between ill and a zombie seems tricky to tell. You only seem to know they've turned when they get up and start sprinting at you, but other than that there seems to be no difference.

[01:10:47] Freddy taunting Tina as he's trying to break his way up to eat her brains is really scary. I know Jason agrees that one of the most interesting things about zombies is that you're being

[01:10:55] attacked by the people you love most in the world, but when they can actually talk to you and remember things about your life together, the fucked up factor is really elevated. At first I was wary about two such charismatic characters as Freddy and Frank became infected

[01:11:09] so early, but I was pleased to see they remained themselves for most of the film. And actually the other characters who popped up, especially Bert and Ernie, were equally exactly. The main issue with this film is that the zombies are so ridiculously overpowered.

[01:11:23] The only way to destroy them is burning and then the gases make it rain and reinfect the area. It's like a bulletproof hydra. This meant it struggles to find a satisfying ending. Although the government bombing the site is the best they probably could have come up with

[01:11:36] given the corners they wrote themselves in. It does leave it extremely open ended because we know from experience and even see the dead rise from their graves again before the credits roll.

[01:11:45] I'd say that's a feature because it's so dark like, oh my god, it's gonna get worse and that's how it ends. And a lot of horror movies end on a note like that. Yeah, to be fair.

[01:11:57] This is one of my favorites so far in my very slow watch through of every zombie film ever other than a few specifics about the zombies, namely their inability to be killed and the fact they can talk.

[01:12:07] And other than the original set of how the graveyard gets infected, I don't think their invulnerability was necessary. The film could have been just as scary based on the sheer number of them rather than a

[01:12:16] gun being useless and then talking so very little purpose plot wise as well. It feels like John Russo and Dan O'Bannon wanted to really move away from George Romero's style of undead, which I think is a shame because he had some good ideas in their hot

[01:12:29] take Romero equals good. That said, this is a pivotal film in the genre on its own, originating the idea that zombies want to eat brains specifically rather than just generic human flesh. To my knowledge, it's also the first time we see animals become infected.

[01:12:44] Neither are my favorite aspects of the creatures, but I still can't deny that this is a landmark and a big contributor to The Lord to Come. P.S. I know there's classics you haven't covered yet, but if you ever get bored between rewatch

[01:12:55] seasons, I'd recommend Brain Dead slash Dead Alive 1992. It's utterly bonkers and I think you'd all hate it. Thanks for recommending. That's directed by Peter Jackson, by the way. Did we not cover Dead Alive? I've never seen it. You have. Nope. I know there's a priest with a lawnmower.

[01:13:14] What? I saw Dead Alive and you haven't seen Dead Alive? Let's three of us cover Dead Alive. All right, next time we get a chance. The other one I like is a niche one. It's got loads of different names.

[01:13:26] I know it is Mayhem at the Manchester Morgue, but it's like a 1970s British zombie film. And if you thought this was bad for portrayals of women, that one is even worse. It's hilarious. Like it's genuinely really funny. I thoroughly recommend it.

[01:13:40] I think it's like an Italian Spanish one, but it's filmed in England and yeah, it's great. I know Dead Alive is one of the goriest movies ever made. That's what I always say. But also Splatstick. Yeah, yeah. So that was amazing. I'm glad you wrote in, Matthew.

[01:13:57] You should write in more. It'd be nice to hear from you. Yeah. Yes, please. A couple of things you mentioned. You said the effects were amazing for something, especially for something done 40 years ago. And one thing about 40 years ago is there was no CAGI to lean on.

[01:14:11] So they really perfected practical effects. Watch The Thing if you want to be totally amazed. Oh, that's Peter's favorite. John Carpenter. Yeah, it's so good. And then I forget what it was, but something you said reminded me that I really wanted to mention but forgot.

[01:14:26] I thought it was so funny when Frank is like, yeah, we got these bodies and they're from the army and it's crazy. And he brings them down. You want to see? And Freddie's like, hey, these things don't link, do they? Link? Hell no.

[01:14:40] These things were made by the Army Corps of Engineers. Smack. Title screen. So good. Perfect timing. You see the corpses twitching, coming alive and everything. Amazing. To be fair, the Army Corps of Engineers, I think Hurricane Katrina was after this. Not wait, Katrina?

[01:15:03] What's the one that happened to New Orleans? Was that Katrina? Yeah. Yeah. And all the levees all constructed by, I think, the Army Corps of Engineers that all failed. I don't know anything about the Army Corps of Engineers. So they're great. They're great. They're great. They're great.

[01:15:19] If you're part of them and you want to set the record straight, let us know. We'll forward your emails along to Karen. All right, cut this part out. Okay, we have a few calls. Here's Bill from England. So from England. Hello, Jason, Lucy and Karen.

[01:15:40] Hope you're all really well. It's Bill from England. I did call him one time before. I submitted my clicker noise. Absolutely loving the rewatch so far. I'm going back and listening to the old podcast as well.

[01:15:55] And seeing your differences in opinion and which characters you don't mind this time around is really interesting. But I have one unrelated question. Will you guys be covering the Fallout TV series by Amazon? It's out in April of this year.

[01:16:14] I know you covered Silo, which was like post-apocalyptic, which Fallout is very post-apocalyptic. I'm sure Jason's played the games or at least seen the games. Yeah, that'd be really awesome if you did. Thanks, guys. Yeah, so this is in it, right?

[01:16:32] Yeah, Fallout, Amazon, lots of money going into it. The trailer looks really fun. It's got a cynical but fun vibe. It's post-nuclear war and mutants and things. Ella Purnell, who plays Jackie on Yellowjackets, is in it as is Walton Goggins and Michael

[01:16:49] Emerson, who played Ben Linus in Lost. It's headed up by Lisa Joy and Jonathan Nolan, who did Westworld. They were great for a couple of seasons on that one, not so much after. But it's the right tone that they strike for this game.

[01:17:06] And the trailer looks really good. But we're not covering it. So next, no, I'm just kidding. Ben might do it. I want to do it, but I don't know if I'll have time. So I think it will be on the network. So stay tuned.

[01:17:23] And maybe even if I don't do a full-on podcast on it, we'll do an episode about the first season or something like that because I'm really interested in it for sure. Amazing. I'd be up for that. Oh, cool. Cool. All right. Next is Lara. Hi, Jason and Lucy.

[01:17:43] And welcome back to the podcast, Karen. Here's my feedback for Return of the Living Dead. I have a funny zombie history with this movie. When I was 12 and 13, my brother and I spent summers at our aunt and uncle's home who lived in the woods of North Carolina.

[01:18:00] The summer that Return of the Living Dead came out, they took us to see this completely inappropriate movie for children. Do you know how uncomfortable it is to watch a naked punk rocker get eaten to death by zombies while sitting between your aunt and uncle?

[01:18:16] I mean, it was the 80s, but that's why we all secretly watched rated R movies on HBO when our parents weren't around. Anywho, I'd been a fan of horror pretty much since I was a little kid. So they thought we'd like this movie.

[01:18:34] But the zombies actually did scare the piss out of 13-year-old me, especially the ooey gooey tank walker. Brains. Brains. And the lady zombie torso who explains why the zombies eat brains. Plus, the premise that the movie has that the zombies were part of this government

[01:18:56] cover-up and an experiment gone wrong. But the thing that scared me the most was when we left the theater because my uncle, who was a former DEA agent, told me and my brother, well, with all the things I know

[01:19:12] that the government is up to, I could see this basically happening one day. And as a former government agent, my uncle guess should know, right? Anyhow, I never knew if he was being serious or just fucking around with us because we're kids.

[01:19:30] But that one statement stuck in my head for years. And despite my love for horror, I almost always avoided zombie movies for that one reason. And it really wasn't until The Walking Dead came out that I purposely sought out a zombie related show.

[01:19:48] So The Walking Dead is what brought me back into the Zed head fold. I just thought it was funny. And looking back at the show now, it's actually kind of a ridiculous and silly zombie film. But I just thought I would share. Okay, thanks.

[01:20:05] And can't wait to hear the podcast. Wow. Wow. So she brings up a good question. Well, I would guess that he was just talking about experimentation with chemicals and not actually that there's zombies roaming around somewhere. Yeah, that must be. Yeah. Here's hoping. Yeah, that's what we'll say.

[01:20:28] That's what we'll go for. Hope in which way? Next. All right. One more call and it's from Colin. Return of the living dead. Don't know if there's time to cover what's been said. But it's one of the best movies I've ever seen.

[01:20:59] One of the best movies ever made. We have brains and we have gore. What makes us even more? And here I leave you with a shitty song. Long live the walking dead forever long. Yeah, I love it. What Colin saying? Yeah. Wow. All right. That is our show.

[01:21:55] Episode 563. Thanks for listening to everybody. Thanks, everybody. It was so fun. Super fun. Thank you for coming on, Karen. I'm glad you're into it. I loved it. Thanks, guys. Really fun. Next episode, we'll be doing an episode getting ready for the walking dead. The ones who live.

[01:22:15] I think they released a trailer, a final trailer for that. Did you watch it? I did. Show anything different. I don't want to know. It's all right. It's okay. Yeah. Sucked. I think it sucked based on Lucy Stone. I'm just keeping my cards close to my chest.

[01:22:32] The next episode will be a catch up slash refresh on Rick's story. You know what we know about how he left and the CRM or the civic Republic military, the group that kidnapped Rick. And we'll also talk about our top five favorite things about Rick.

[01:22:51] And then I think the week after that, before the show starts, we'll do an episode on Michonne and also what we're hoping for from the show. So it'll be two episodes getting ready for the ones who live. Yes. And it'll be for the CRM stuff.

[01:23:05] It'll be us standing in front of a pin board with loads of thread on it pointing and going, yes, that thing went to that thing. And we think this thing. And there's the letter A here and B here. And the letter A is here. Gimple has been here.

[01:23:19] So we don't know what's going on there. Jadis is there. It's all very confusing. So yeah, it'll be good. If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about any of that, you can find all our contact information at podcastgo.com.

[01:23:35] And while you're there, please check out our other podcasts. What we got? What we got? Well, a favorite show of mine over the last few years is Ted Lasso. And I love that show. Three seasons.

[01:23:51] Ben and Kristen are in the middle of their Ted Lasso rewatch on the Revisited podcast. So if you liked Ted Lasso, I know they both love it. Here's a question. Speaking of Ted Lasso, one of the stars of Ted Lasso stars in Fargo season five. Juno Temple. Yes.

[01:24:13] So is anybody covering Fargo season five? No, I kind of wish I had. I started doing Squid Game and then Fargo started and I was like, oh, maybe I should save Squid Game and done this show while it's on. Because it's so good.

[01:24:29] Fargo season five with Juno Temple is amazing. And she plays such a different role. And I was glad they gave her something to really show how talented she is. She's amazing. Have you seen it, Lucy? I haven't. And I would very much like to.

[01:24:44] I really like Juno Temple. You'd love it. Got sidetracked this week by The Morning Show, which I watched based on Wendy Eppers, who's also a podcast host, recommended it to me. Obsessed. We're like hovering through it. I missed it the first time around.

[01:24:59] So yeah, really, really into that right now. You have something good waiting for you when you're done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited. This episode was made possible by Patreon supporters like Jum Kali, who pledged their support at patreon.com slash Jason Kabasi. So thank you to Jum Kali.

[01:25:19] One of the perks, we do a Patreon exclusive podcast each month called The Z Head Show, where I bring on a guest or two from people who've pledged. And we talk about pop culture topics. Mostly this month, I just put one out with Kara and Mark Nichols.

[01:25:33] And we did our top five lists of movies and shows that we're looking forward to this year, of which there are quite a lot. And I now have a bunch more things on my list to watch. What was your number one, Jason?

[01:25:44] What are you most looking forward to? Uh, sign up for Patreon. Nicely done. I'll tell my number one is Cobra Kai. His final season. Of course. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening.