572: "What We" Listener Feedback

[00:00:00] Ah!

[00:00:02] Ah!

[00:00:03] Huh...

[00:00:04] Ones Who Live, Podcastica!

[00:00:24] Welcome to The Cast of Us.

[00:00:29] A Podcast dedicated to the Shuddering.

[00:00:33] The Walking Dead.

[00:00:38] He's head-welcome to The Podcast I'm Jason.

[00:00:40] And I'm Lucy.

[00:00:41] And we're going through your feedback for The Walking Dead,

[00:00:43] The Ones Who Live, Season 1, Episode 4,

[00:00:46] What We, The Momentous, Deny Agriir,

[00:00:49] Written, Episode that most people...

[00:00:51] I think...

[00:00:52] Yeah, I'd be curious to see.

[00:00:54] I didn't read through all the feedback,

[00:00:56] but it seems like most people loved it.

[00:00:58] Hmm, I think so.

[00:01:00] I haven't read through it all but there's...

[00:01:02] There is a lot!

[00:01:03] Here's a lot!

[00:01:04] And I knew there would be for this one for sure.

[00:01:06] I want to mention, you know, last time I said

[00:01:09] we were starting a new segment called...

[00:01:13] What did I say?

[00:01:14] It was called Podcastica over time,

[00:01:16] but then during the segment you said it should be called

[00:01:18] Tangent Time and you were totally right,

[00:01:20] so it's called Tangent Time.

[00:01:22] Tangent Time.

[00:01:23] We answer questions or talk about subjects

[00:01:25] that you guys want us to.

[00:01:27] Last time we talked about which TV movie or novel characters

[00:01:30] were most relate to or identify with.

[00:01:32] That was fun.

[00:01:33] And this time, Ashley Edward Wolf suggested just aliens.

[00:01:38] So that'll be the next one that we do

[00:01:41] and that'll be available just for Patreon subscribers.

[00:01:43] Patreon.com slash Jason Kabassi.

[00:01:46] So also, I had a couple of thoughts

[00:01:49] since we last recorded that I want...

[00:01:52] I don't ever know where to stick these,

[00:01:54] but I want to share it here.

[00:01:55] Excellent.

[00:01:56] I thought, you know, there's that whole thing

[00:02:01] about we are the Walking Dead and about Rick's relatives

[00:02:06] or grandpa saying that he just considered himself dead

[00:02:10] in the war and, you know,

[00:02:12] that theme of the Walking Dead isn't just talking

[00:02:17] about the zombies,

[00:02:18] but I think it occurred to me that CRM

[00:02:21] was really like that because they sacrificed their lives

[00:02:26] in their thought for everyone else, you know.

[00:02:29] For 500 years in the future.

[00:02:31] Yeah.

[00:02:32] So it's like they're the Walking Dead kind of...

[00:02:35] Yeah, that's a good point.

[00:02:37] And then this show is called The One To Live

[00:02:40] and I think in the last episode,

[00:02:42] Michonne is like, no, don't be the Walking Dead.

[00:02:45] Live your life.

[00:02:46] Like focus on your life.

[00:02:48] Our love, your friends, you know.

[00:02:51] So that sort of makes it make sense on more than one level

[00:02:55] about the ones who live not just because they survived

[00:02:57] but because they're choosing to actually live their lives.

[00:03:01] This is how it makes sense.

[00:03:03] Yeah, exactly.

[00:03:06] And also I think living and loving are linked together,

[00:03:10] you know, she said we go home Rick

[00:03:13] and we figure out how to protect it together.

[00:03:15] That's how we make it all make sense.

[00:03:16] You were just saying that we love on each other

[00:03:18] as hard as we can while we can.

[00:03:19] So I think as cheesy as it sounds,

[00:03:22] it's no accident that the title The One To Live

[00:03:24] is close to the ones who love.

[00:03:26] Well, we know what the Horno Power Day will be called.

[00:03:29] The ones who love hard.

[00:03:31] The ones who love on each other.

[00:03:35] And it'll be The Walking Dead Noems.

[00:03:39] So...

[00:03:40] You can check out our fanfic at...

[00:03:43] So, Dina, write that.

[00:03:45] No, I'm just kidding.

[00:03:47] So the next thing I wanted to talk about was

[00:03:49] I was sure that you know in that scene

[00:03:52] where at the end of last episode when Rick was about to drive

[00:03:56] and then he said, oh it's a stick shift

[00:03:58] and then they traded places

[00:04:00] that that was because of his hand

[00:04:02] and not because he didn't know how to drive a stick shift.

[00:04:05] But I'm OCD so I had to go check for sure.

[00:04:09] So...

[00:04:10] I had this train of thought.

[00:04:12] But if they were in the British car,

[00:04:14] it would be on the others.

[00:04:16] I was thinking about that too.

[00:04:18] But they weren't though, right?

[00:04:20] Because they're in the States still.

[00:04:22] But yeah, well, I mean,

[00:04:23] because so his hand would be available

[00:04:25] his right hand for the stick shift

[00:04:27] but then he wouldn't be able to steer as well.

[00:04:29] He could make it work.

[00:04:31] But anyway, he can fly helicopter.

[00:04:33] I think...

[00:04:34] I mean, can he though?

[00:04:35] Like, I'm still on the fence of it.

[00:04:37] The last one he was on ended really badly.

[00:04:39] But I just thought, you know,

[00:04:41] that little moment was clearly

[00:04:44] a fun romantic thing.

[00:04:46] But also, I think it was a commentary on Rick

[00:04:49] having a missing hand not on his ineptitude.

[00:04:52] And so...

[00:04:54] But I went and checked

[00:04:55] and there's a vehicles page in the Wiki,

[00:04:57] the Walking Dead Wiki.

[00:04:58] And it has like 100 different vehicles

[00:05:01] that have appeared in the Walking Dead.

[00:05:02] I think they tried to get everyone

[00:05:04] that any character has ever driven or used.

[00:05:06] Did Hyundai sponsor it?

[00:05:08] I think they tried it in there for sure.

[00:05:09] Oh, yeah, of course.

[00:05:10] And so I...

[00:05:11] And it says who, which characters have used them?

[00:05:13] So I went through all the ones that Rick has used.

[00:05:15] Every single one of them

[00:05:17] is either an automatic

[00:05:19] or has both automatic and manual versions of it.

[00:05:22] Some people don't know how to drive stick.

[00:05:24] It's very much more uncalled in the UK

[00:05:26] and the UK we almost all drive stick.

[00:05:28] But...

[00:05:29] I know.

[00:05:30] If you go to the UK and rent a car,

[00:05:31] you better be ready for it.

[00:05:32] I know what it's going to say

[00:05:33] where you can do the summer.

[00:05:35] No, I can do.

[00:05:36] I can drive stick.

[00:05:37] It is weird with using your other hand.

[00:05:40] Yes, really strange.

[00:05:41] My motto is if I'm overseas,

[00:05:44] it's an automatic

[00:05:45] because then I don't have to think about it.

[00:05:46] And I'm on the road

[00:05:47] and then when I'm home

[00:05:48] I'm much prefer driving manual.

[00:05:49] Yeah, I went to...

[00:05:51] I picked up my rental car in London

[00:05:52] and had to immediately deal with

[00:05:54] just being on the other side of the road

[00:05:56] having to shift with the other hand

[00:05:58] and be in London traffic all over.

[00:06:00] Oh God, it's the worst.

[00:06:01] We're getting way off track.

[00:06:02] So I tried to look through some scenes

[00:06:06] of him driving

[00:06:07] and it just wasn't showing the stick shift

[00:06:10] or whether it had...

[00:06:11] One of them I thought it was for sure a stick shifted

[00:06:13] and then I could see it was clearly an automatic

[00:06:15] because it had one of those other kind.

[00:06:16] Anyway, finally found one.

[00:06:17] It's season eight episode four.

[00:06:22] Some guy...

[00:06:23] it's in the middle of the All-Out War

[00:06:26] Rick and Darryl are chasing a couple of saviors

[00:06:28] in a truck,

[00:06:29] one of whom is in the back

[00:06:31] with a machine gun firing at them.

[00:06:33] Darryl's on his motorcycle

[00:06:34] actually Rick is driving a 1987 Jeep Wrangler

[00:06:38] which has automatic N-many versions

[00:06:40] but there's a clear shot of him shifting gears

[00:06:42] and then you can see his arm moving

[00:06:44] as they're chasing, you know.

[00:06:45] There you go.

[00:06:46] There you go.

[00:06:47] They did a lot of car chases in that season

[00:06:49] that really went fast and furious on us for a while there.

[00:06:52] I'm looking forward to getting to season seven and eight

[00:06:55] and see if we are...

[00:06:56] Yes, see if we're...

[00:06:57] If we hate it or if we can find stuff to like.

[00:06:59] We'll be getting through a quicker...

[00:07:00] I know there's stuff in there that we will love.

[00:07:03] Like Ezekiel's first episode, you know.

[00:07:06] What kind of episode?

[00:07:07] Yeah.

[00:07:08] Yeah.

[00:07:09] Don't judge in the...

[00:07:10] Oh no, she's dead.

[00:07:11] No, like don't judge in the...

[00:07:12] No, she did by then.

[00:07:13] Yeah.

[00:07:14] Yeah, just before that.

[00:07:16] Oh my god.

[00:07:17] Alright, I think so.

[00:07:18] I don't know for sure actually what season it was

[00:07:20] but let's move on to our feedback

[00:07:23] with remote drones and grunts.

[00:07:24] Ah!

[00:07:25] Oh my god.

[00:07:27] Before we get going

[00:07:30] I want to mention there were a ton of calls

[00:07:32] as Lucy said in messages.

[00:07:34] And I've mentioned this before

[00:07:36] but it would help if you could keep calls around

[00:07:38] two and a half, three minutes just

[00:07:40] so we can continue to be able to play everyone's calls.

[00:07:43] I made a few edits on some of the longer ones

[00:07:46] just to pair them down.

[00:07:47] Mostly just things that other people have already said.

[00:07:49] But we love that you guys are calling in and writing in.

[00:07:52] We do.

[00:07:53] We really do.

[00:07:54] I'm actually recording from a hotel room.

[00:07:57] I love it so much.

[00:07:58] I'm doing this well in a way which is also quite sensitive

[00:08:00] to the fact that we're doing this.

[00:08:02] I'm not sure if it's going to be a tunnel.

[00:08:04] We're shooting more probably fix so you wouldn't hear that.

[00:08:06] Because I've said no, it'll be tunnel.

[00:08:08] No, it'll be tunnel.

[00:08:10] But I've said Lucy is actually in a tunnel.

[00:08:12] I'm in a tunnel.

[00:08:13] There's people firing machine guns at her.

[00:08:15] It's really difficult and I can't drive sick.

[00:08:17] It's so annoying.

[00:08:18] But that's how dedicated she is.

[00:08:19] Well, so we're dedicated to my,

[00:08:21] let's start with Doug Fick who says basically

[00:08:23] Rick gave into Michonne because he was tired

[00:08:25] of the constant nagging LOL or Doug.

[00:08:29] That is one perspective.

[00:08:31] My dude, I'm just not going to respond to that one.

[00:08:34] I mean, maybe that's how you get someone out of a cult.

[00:08:37] Yeah, sure.

[00:08:38] Yeah, not to my, why not?

[00:08:41] Teresa Harper said amazing episode very emotional.

[00:08:45] I cried so hard.

[00:08:46] Superb acting from both of them.

[00:08:48] I love this episode so much.

[00:08:49] Heart.

[00:08:50] You're in good company Teresa.

[00:08:52] Michael Costa says this was easily an all-time great episode.

[00:08:56] The chemistry between these two characters was on another level.

[00:08:59] Deny in particular delivered an Oscar-worthy performance.

[00:09:03] Yes.

[00:09:04] I thought it was.

[00:09:05] If your Lincoln was incredible too.

[00:09:07] Both were amazing.

[00:09:08] Yep, would you say it's an all-time great episode?

[00:09:12] Would you put it for me?

[00:09:13] Yeah, definitely.

[00:09:14] It's up there with top three or five.

[00:09:16] Yeah, me too.

[00:09:17] I would too.

[00:09:18] We'll see.

[00:09:19] I mean sometimes you need to let things age a little bit but I feel like...

[00:09:23] It's mature.

[00:09:24] Yeah.

[00:09:25] Valerie Vandeever King says I absolutely loved it.

[00:09:29] However, Jada said Rick and Michonne together can do anything.

[00:09:32] Don't get me wrong.

[00:09:33] I love them together but it does seem like Michonne can do anything.

[00:09:37] Hey, Rick saved her life of Shandler fell on her head.

[00:09:43] He did.

[00:09:44] He did.

[00:09:45] That's one perfect.

[00:09:46] Stephanie Burgess says I don't know where to begin.

[00:09:49] From start to finish perfection.

[00:09:51] Deny is a master story teller.

[00:09:53] Honestly every episode so far has made me cry.

[00:09:55] This one is no different.

[00:09:56] I'm both terrified and excited to see episodes five and six.

[00:10:00] I know.

[00:10:01] That's a good way to start.

[00:10:02] Yeah, I'm happy this is the finale.

[00:10:05] I've just said it's the finale.

[00:10:06] It's over.

[00:10:07] Don't come back next week.

[00:10:08] Yeah, it's going to be me and somebody else next week.

[00:10:12] It's the finale for me guys.

[00:10:15] Georgie Neild says great episode but wish we saw how they found the room they were in.

[00:10:21] I wondered whether Lakshmi Patel and Greenwood more generally have a connection with the world beyond.

[00:10:27] The sign in the lab said keep hope alive.

[00:10:31] I think it was a pure accident that they found that I think Michonne just saw Lake and pulled Rick out of the helicopter

[00:10:38] and they went up to the shore and there it was.

[00:10:41] That's what I got, right?

[00:10:42] It wasn't like they were either one of them knew that was there or anything.

[00:10:46] No, no.

[00:10:48] Janet for Ringham says I've been trying to think of other times Rick has run away from his emotional problems slightly suggested.

[00:10:54] Both times Carl was shot.

[00:10:56] I think Laurie had to fight to keep him by Carl's bed the first time and the second time when he lost his eye, Rick ran out to fight the dead instead of staying by Carl's side.

[00:11:05] Yeah, agree with that.

[00:11:07] He always has a reason and it's when he wanted to leave Carl.

[00:11:14] I think he wanted to go check on Shane, right?

[00:11:16] Because Shane had been gone a while.

[00:11:19] And when we covered it, I was like well that kind of makes sense but he should probably stay.

[00:11:28] And now that we've seen this episode, I'm more like yeah I think Lucy might have a point there.

[00:11:34] I think the thing that gets me is Laurie's reaction to it in season one and two is very much that this is a repeating pattern.

[00:11:40] Like the frustration she feels in the way at least the way Sarah Wayne Kelly's plays is like you can tell she's like not again.

[00:11:47] Where is it?

[00:11:48] It's not like it's a new thing so that's what makes me think.

[00:11:51] I mean, it's hard like he's a cop.

[00:11:54] He's used to going out putting self in danger to help strangers right that's what he does.

[00:11:59] And then when it's his own son and there's somebody trying to get medicine for him that's late, then it does make sense.

[00:12:05] Like yeah, maybe if you don't go find Shane your son will die.

[00:12:10] What good is it going to be sitting by his bed when the guy who's supposed to get his medicine maybe got eaten by zombies?

[00:12:15] Yeah, but he also needs your blood which you can't give him if you're not there.

[00:12:20] Yeah, I think at that point her show was refusing it.

[00:12:24] But anyway my point is just that in that situation, I could totally see where I mean I might be the same way not because I can't sit in the moment of the discomfort of being with my six on.

[00:12:34] But more like we need to get this fucking taken care of right now.

[00:12:38] You know, or else he's going to die.

[00:12:40] Now I'm still right.

[00:12:41] I'm just waiting.

[00:12:42] Yeah, I'm sorry.

[00:12:43] All right.

[00:12:44] But I mean that's why with this with the CRM.

[00:12:48] And it's like no.

[00:12:50] That's great.

[00:12:51] She's through right?

[00:12:53] Ben Wood says fantastic episode.

[00:12:55] Man, I was so angry and wanted to grab Rick and shake him.

[00:12:59] But when he said they made him forget Carl, I cried like a baby.

[00:13:03] I felt really tense with the building collapsing with all the walkers on the stairs.

[00:13:08] I love it when they make it feel like a horror movie.

[00:13:11] I know.

[00:13:12] I was watching it with Jenny.

[00:13:14] Like the fourth time for the fourth time.

[00:13:16] And when it got to the part where the walkers were where Michele was pinned under the chandelier and the walkers were kind of coming out of the dark at them.

[00:13:27] I really occurred to me how creepy that was.

[00:13:30] I barely even registered those scenes anymore, but with Jenny there who doesn't really watch the show anymore.

[00:13:35] And she was starting to freak out a little bit.

[00:13:37] I was like yeah, that is creepy.

[00:13:39] Also, I had a point about that scene that I didn't say that I meant too much.

[00:13:43] There's what I think it's that scene where Michele puts the lighter on the danger lighter.

[00:13:48] And Rick puts the CRM red light on and it's like they're both having their past illuminated by different things and different motivations.

[00:13:55] I was like, oh that's good.

[00:13:57] Separate visual metaphor.

[00:14:00] Love it.

[00:14:01] Ben also added excellent episode more like that please.

[00:14:06] Yes, agree.

[00:14:08] And here's a call from Robin.

[00:14:10] Good morning, y'all.

[00:14:11] It's me.

[00:14:12] I want to talk about last week for a second.

[00:14:15] Somebody wrote her called in and called the dynamic.

[00:14:21] And so, Jadis coming on to Rick as the sexual harassment, where as I had thought of it kind of as a harmless flirtation.

[00:14:29] I came up in the time when it was those sorts of things were considered okay and normal and taken for granted.

[00:14:37] And so I think that colored my view of the whole thing.

[00:14:41] Jadis, the power dynamic between them is stark and remarkable.

[00:14:46] She has the power of life and death over him.

[00:14:49] So her constantly coming on to him is not a harmless flirtation.

[00:14:53] It really could be considered sexual harassment.

[00:14:57] And it takes a lot for him to stand up to her because she could turn on him at any moment except that I think that she wouldn't because she is in love with him but still it's a crazy situation.

[00:15:12] This week, what a tour de force of writing, of acting, just a mesmerizing performance by both of them.

[00:15:21] Did I career is an amazing writer?

[00:15:24] The scene where she's getting undressed in front of Rick.

[00:15:28] She knew exactly what she was doing.

[00:15:30] She looked over her shoulder.

[00:15:31] She knew that if she could get him to that place of physical and emotional connection, she'd have him.

[00:15:39] And he knew it too.

[00:15:40] He took a half step tourter and then leaned back when he realized what would happen.

[00:15:47] So interesting to see these two people pulling on each other and pushing on each other so diametrically opposed each determined that their view is going to prevail.

[00:15:59] Willing to do whatever it takes, lie whatever to make it happen.

[00:16:05] And the look on Michonne's face when Rick said I didn't have any choice, you didn't have to come here.

[00:16:11] I thought oh my god Rick that was really stupid.

[00:16:14] You know darn well that she didn't have a choice.

[00:16:17] She had to come look for you.

[00:16:19] There was absolutely no question about that.

[00:16:23] Her fur face was pretty amazing.

[00:16:26] And look on her face when she shoved him, she was so feral in that moment and so just absolutely furious.

[00:16:34] And then when they did actually connect when they're sitting on the bed and he had that terrible anxiety attack, I think it was because he knew that he was going to break down somehow.

[00:16:48] And he was really trying not to let her get into his shell.

[00:16:55] I was okay until they brought up Carl and Rick cried so hard over Carl.

[00:17:00] I was so overcome by that just I cried.

[00:17:06] I cried really hard at that it was it was such a moment and Andrew Lincoln was so brave to be so vulnerable and and portray that the way he did.

[00:17:17] I just love the whole episode it was amazing but I did have a couple of things that I laughed about a little bit.

[00:17:25] I thought to myself I'm not really sure I'm trying to get in an elevator when in a building that's collapsing, especially when the voice.

[00:17:34] So reminiscent of the CDC said you know two minutes remain I thought oh my god.

[00:17:43] And I kept waiting for somebody to come into that apartment.

[00:17:46] I don't know why because it clearly had been abandoned for a long time and I think I'm going a little bit long so I will say I'll talk to you soon.

[00:17:54] Bye.

[00:17:56] That's great.

[00:17:57] Robyn, do you think as well?

[00:17:58] I think with J.D.S. like we've known her in different positions of power like positions where she had a lot of power over Rick and positions where she had none where she was just a funny garbage person.

[00:18:08] So it is interesting I think that does make us maybe not as good at seeing it as some of the listeners have been so yeah I appreciate that.

[00:18:18] I knew it the whole time.

[00:18:20] Jason knew it the whole time.

[00:18:22] But yeah she had the least power when she was a member of Alexandria.

[00:18:27] I would say Pamela Strickler says highly saying Jason love you guys love this episode shows who the real warrior in the walking dead is.

[00:18:36] What I love most about the walking dead is how in the beginning the men were protecting the women and now the women are saving the men sometimes from themselves.

[00:18:44] Congrats to the ladies of the walking dead you are the heroes.

[00:18:47] Thanks Pamela.

[00:18:49] Rick saved Michonne's life so Tracy Walker says.

[00:18:53] That's one of the best things about the show is that the women like because I always think a story about the fall of civilization should rethink how things work take the advantage of the structures of society and all the typical ways of doing things are now gone.

[00:19:15] And maybe rethink and I love that the walking dead just realize that women and men are both people.

[00:19:24] Who does that?

[00:19:27] All right, Tracy Walker says this is my favorite episode so far 14 years in this is the best one.

[00:19:34] Yeah.

[00:19:35] Michonne pulling him out of this dissociation I really wish they had passed on the car commercial at the end.

[00:19:43] You know, I didn't say anything but that moment felt the least real to me when Rick was saying we can take on the world or whatever he said it felt a little bit like I didn't know if I believed he would have that attitude.

[00:20:02] Oh, I bought it. He was giddy.

[00:20:04] He was hyper.

[00:20:35] Oh, well we'll see how the yellow truck fairs next week.

[00:20:38] Um, Jennifer Ringham says so Rick can fly helicopter with his hand replacement but can't hold a steering wheel to drive a manual LL overall great episode but hated the convenient drop from helicopter into a lake in the middle of random weird luxury apartment slash city.

[00:20:54] Plot armor was so pissed at Rick in the beginning and then when he said they took Carl he had me crying.

[00:21:00] Yeah.

[00:21:03] Carol Latchelay said I watched this morning while drinking my coffee and now I'm just sitting here hugging my dog.

[00:21:10] I'm still recovering.

[00:21:12] This was the first episode to really get the tears going for me quote, I know how to be dead and live now shot through me.

[00:21:20] The car of it all also him.

[00:21:23] I feel like any commentary questioning whether or not to 90 Andy had chemistry is utterly completely quashed now.

[00:21:30] 100%.

[00:21:32] I always thought they did.

[00:21:34] Did you?

[00:21:35] I did.

[00:21:36] Yeah, I did.

[00:21:37] I don't think it was as pronounced as it is now I think they've really been maybe absence makes the heart grow fonder but yeah they were always a hot couple I think.

[00:21:46] Becky Fener Anderson says beautiful episode Michonne is incredible her words were powerful.

[00:21:52] It was nice to see her be the strong one for Rick hashtag girl power also the intimate scenes flame emoji their chemistry is off the charts.

[00:22:01] Some might think there was too much talking but I think every conversation was so important this is my favorite episode this season thus far excellent episode to light a fire for what I'm assuming will be an excellent finish.

[00:22:12] I think there's girls Becky helps you.

[00:22:15] Sean said wow what a crazy episode I gently wasn't sure if Rick was going to come back or not even after hearing he now has a son.

[00:22:25] This isn't an octa-andies performance but tonight has been getting better and better with each episode she's phenomenal also do we just witness Ricky Dickey do the pouring the best quick.

[00:22:37] I was wondering why you're laughing you read ahead.

[00:22:40] Is he trying to make pancakes?

[00:22:45] I don't know how to keep topping the previous episode but I cannot wait for five and six love the coverage keep up the good work.

[00:22:51] I did have that thought like you're going to make another kid before you've got this resolved here.

[00:22:56] Oh my god. Oh shot. Oh that's funny.

[00:23:05] Okay we've got a calm out thankfully.

[00:23:09] Wow we can pose ourselves here is Kurasa.

[00:23:12] Hey Jason and Lucy this is Kurasa.

[00:23:16] I know one.

[00:23:18] I'm here to share my feedback for the ones who live the best so it's for what we beautifully written beautifully acted.

[00:23:31] I absolutely loved it.

[00:23:33] Rick's behavior was so odd.

[00:23:36] I thought like did they put some kind of mind control device and brain but I realized that's way too out there and my five so

[00:23:46] I just shared garden variety trauma response.

[00:23:49] Sadly seeing Carl was so moving and I felt like if they show his face as a little boy I'm going to lose it.

[00:23:59] The ending was perfect but I'm really nervous about what's ahead for them.

[00:24:05] I'm like Lucy I could totally have this in here and just imagine they made it home.

[00:24:12] But you know obviously that's not in the cards.

[00:24:15] They're going to get hit with another seemingly insurmountable challenge that will give me an ulcer.

[00:24:26] It cannot do my zombie moan right now because it's late here and I don't want to scare my kids in the big but they still make it freaked out so I promise to do it next week.

[00:24:38] I'm looking forward to it.

[00:24:43] I know two currises now and they're both wonderful.

[00:24:48] Niels Cortez says that's not how you love.

[00:24:51] That is one impressive way to show Rick how much of a friend he has in my show.

[00:24:55] Well I asked for more words and I got it but the conversations were so necessary just as the season seven premiere tickets sweet time to break Rick and there but they were by layout the remainder of that season.

[00:25:05] This episode now was necessarily out the motivation for everything that will be coming.

[00:25:10] Well we'll see but I'm really glad they took their sweet time here.

[00:25:14] Yeah, yeah this was you know I talk about how I don't care as much about whether a story forwards the plot versus just it in itself as a piece of entertainment that's moving or enjoyable or whatever.

[00:25:31] And this one definitely forwarded the character progression but also was just a great little piece of art in and of itself.

[00:25:39] Miles from St. Antonio says Jason Lucy I've been listening to you all since before the walking dead aired I'm even listening to the rewatch thank you.

[00:25:48] Yay!

[00:25:49] When I was in college I narrowly avoided being indoctrinated in a cult which would have ended in my death.

[00:25:56] I was approached by a man who offered to let me attend a religious group that he had fortunately I have little regard for religion and turned him down several days later I saw the guy on the news his name was David Koresh the leader of the branch dividends week later.

[00:26:12] The ATF storm their compound and burned it to the ground leaving no survivors.

[00:26:17] Gerr arg don't get bit.

[00:26:19] Jesus I'm glad you're okay.

[00:26:21] That's intense yeah.

[00:26:23] Holy moly.

[00:26:24] I'm glad you're not just a little bit of a guy who's been charged to bullet there probably literally or coolly to the very.

[00:26:30] Yes yeah right.

[00:26:32] Oh yeah that's right he was the flavor aid guy right that I don't know no I don't think he was yeah that was Waco wasn't it.

[00:26:42] Waco was coolly.

[00:26:43] I don't know.

[00:26:46] I think I don't know they're so I've been there all jumbled in my head but I'm pretty sure David Koresh his compound was stormed like he said with these guys yeah and just like the government versus him and there was a blood bath and everything I don't know.

[00:26:57] I should have researched it anyway glad you didn't have anything to do with that miles.

[00:27:01] Yeah same.

[00:27:03] Jennifer McGinley says I've been having ZA dreams since I began watching dead a million years ago.

[00:27:09] One of my recurring ones is that I'm being chased by Zeds and I reach cars one has a key in the ignition yay so I jump in and it's a fucking manual.

[00:27:16] I drive automatically oh Jennifer just completely disproving my point that most you get.

[00:27:22] Sorry Jennifer but I did have loads of manual lessons a long long time ago so all the Zeds are getting closer and I frantically try and remember how to do it.

[00:27:30] It's a extra pedal for all your clutch something about bite and point oh fuck I'm gonna die always wake up just as the car gets surended.

[00:27:39] Got some vivid memories of my driving lessons there with like fewer zombies.

[00:27:43] I can imagine that I loved how they finally got situated in the car and then a zombie came right up to the window next to Rick.

[00:27:52] And he looked kind of freaked out he's like okay go.

[00:27:57] We made it in the car enough now.

[00:28:00] Yeah.

[00:28:01] One time's over all right thank you Jennifer here's Jenny Daniels.

[00:28:06] Hi Jason and Lucy this is Jenny from Jersey.

[00:28:11] This is my first time recording something for you guys so I hope you love it.

[00:28:17] Lucy I'm a huge fan.

[00:28:20] I feel like I want to hang out with you.

[00:28:22] I want to go to the mall or something you know like something really fun and then we'll go watch you know we'll go binge watch the walking dead.

[00:28:30] Yes but this episode amazing.

[00:28:34] I think it's my favorite episode of the walking dead ever between the writing that acting like they're facial expressions because there were so many scenes where like

[00:28:44] you know there were no words and the looks they give each other.

[00:28:49] Oh my god do I want to kill you or do I want to fuck you.

[00:28:52] I don't know.

[00:28:54] And when Michonne dresses she definitely did that on purpose.

[00:28:59] She cannot wait to get that uniform off because she fucking hates those assholes.

[00:29:05] And when they're talking about their children I love Michonne's little scoff.

[00:29:11] It's like so genuine I feel like and seeing them screaming each other was very amusing for me and I feel like Angie's accent kind of popped out a little bit every now and again.

[00:29:23] You know when he said they won a long time ago they broke him I knew it they broke him I thought Negan broke him.

[00:29:32] No that was nothing they fucking broke him.

[00:29:36] We have to go back you know like kept saying that we have to go back he couldn't like even think about the fact that he had a son and she realizes that they fucked him up.

[00:29:48] What did they do to you she said and you know when he said to her I've never stopped loving you oh my god oh my god.

[00:29:57] And when Michonne says the only time I feel safe is when I'm with you oh my god that's what I think about my husband too.

[00:30:07] That's awesome.

[00:30:08] You know and then when the chandelier falls and Rick says she's like get out of here get out here and Rick says that's never happening.

[00:30:17] I feel like Rick was coming around.

[00:30:20] When they go back to the apartment and they're like just looking at each other like I said there's no words but their facial expressions the sexual tension oh my god.

[00:30:30] And I'm thinking guys you don't have time for this the building is collapsing what are you doing.

[00:30:36] But then like as it progresses I'm like oh yeah you know what maybe there is a little time.

[00:30:42] And it was really graphic which was amazing I love that.

[00:30:46] And I have a whole new appreciation.

[00:30:49] Check out her fan fiction Andy you know when he has this panic attack while while there you know getting it on she brings him back without even talking.

[00:30:58] You know like again no words just facial expressions they could talk to each other just with their eyes I mean that's amazing.

[00:31:06] And then it's like I've never seen Rick smile so much ever in any episode but after that he's just all teeth you know.

[00:31:16] I heard call cut off but I love it I want to hang out I want to go to mall in Jersey.

[00:31:22] This is amazing I love that you focused yeah on nonverbal communication because this was a very dialogue heavy episode and yet there was so much aside from that or in addition to it going on too.

[00:31:35] Mike from Brighton says what an episode give me two people in a room emoting any day particularly these two and particularly when deny career is on script duty.

[00:31:48] Even beyond the dialogue it was beautifully structured episode with three distinct acts and complete character arcs.

[00:31:54] I've been quite down on the spin-offs partly because they just don't feel like the walking dead to me however the last minute of this episode in the car we finally glimpsed the old Rick we know and love and I thought we are back.

[00:32:04] Oh and PS it's lucky that Rick hasn't had much experience with the ladies in the past eight years because if they have left that building five minutes later I don't think they'd have made it out.

[00:32:16] That's an excellent point everyone so cheeky this week I love it I love it.

[00:32:21] So do our listeners were insightful so good so good Terry from Huntington Beach says now that was a great episode.

[00:32:29] So let me know what you think of this when the king slayer Jimmy Lannister lost his hand everything he was was lost with that hand starting with bath time with Brienne his character took on a nuance that it couldn't have had with both hands Rick's missing hand basically made him worry about us.

[00:32:45] Are the writers missing a great way to make Rick more layered by making him weaker your thoughts.

[00:32:50] Yes it always impress me how to you care is Andrew Lincoln and Paulie and a market to us can pull off perfect American accents on the.

[00:32:58] In podcasts resident scotty Lucy please say the falling centers in her best American accent okay I want to eat a tomato in the bathroom that's pretty good not great maybe Canadian.

[00:33:13] I thought it I think of anyone who's lost the lip I don't know I don't know hours may.

[00:33:27] It's pretty good but that just especially the way it's a tight looks like a pretty powerful fist with this sharp long blade and they made a joke out of it with the stick shift thing but also there was that tender moment with him in Michonne where she looked at the stump and it was

[00:33:42] just an acknowledgement that they'd both been through a lot he looked at her scar so I think they are taking advantage of it in a lot of different ways you know bring out emotions and things.

[00:33:52] And they're breaking him in so many other ways as well gee yeah what do you want I know I know take off his leg to and his eye just wants to eat a tomato in the bathroom that's all he wants anyway sorry.

[00:34:05] Vince Paganos says really powerful episode the show has exceeded my exit expectations thus far yeah me too so good and your guys coverage is awesome as always thank you I do want to point out how shockingly similar this show is to the plot of toy story to.

[00:34:22] Interesting you're me out Sheriff gets taken away sheriff tries to escape can't and loses an arm or hand one could say gets convinced to buy into the ideas of this new place friend.

[00:34:34] Travels great distance to find sheriff somehow does find him friend tries to save sheriff sheriff turns down friend decides to stay friend walks down along hallway or air vent.

[00:34:44] Sheriff chases after friend and so on I think it's a reasonable thing to assume if we watch toy story to you might get some insights in how the show ends laugh about you.

[00:34:54] I don't remember the end of the story some when it asked him in that chat you know a way be I should go watch it and he's like well don't watch it if you don't want to be spoiled on the ones who live.

[00:35:08] That's great man makes me so curious that's really cool alright here's mark Nichols.

[00:35:18] How's mark Nichols from Houston Texas is calling in about the most recent episode what we.

[00:35:25] Three quick things about it I don't know if you saw the preview from the previous week but they kept showing that helicopter coming up to the window and making it seem like.

[00:35:34] Rick and my show got caught a little trick they play that helicopter is actually there to store the other helicopter was a lot of fun I know you guys.

[00:35:43] Saw the screeners so you probably missed out on that missing just come all the fun things I heard from your previous episode is some reason when Lucy says denial I keep thinking of just the name deny and it was a fun little.

[00:35:59] Planned word and then one thing Jason said was about Rick well on the one hand and then everyone on I thought it's pretty funny because.

[00:36:09] I think that's all you do looking for a.

[00:36:12] Next up so thank you.

[00:36:14] On the one to do that on purpose love it that's funny thanks mark thank you mark.

[00:36:22] Lynn A says hi Jason Lucy long time listener first time caller I've been listening to this podcast since 2015 I've been meaning to write or call in for a while but this episode finally got me to do it.

[00:36:34] I love the episodes focused on character development and this was all that and a bag of chips I loved seeing the back and forth of my two favorite characters they tried to fight it out and it wasn't enough it wasn't so much on soften that she was really able to get right to talk about what had broken him to this point beautifully written an.

[00:36:51] Thank you for keeping me company on long drives over the years love you guys all of you to Lynn thank you for writing in.

[00:36:58] Yeah 2015 doesn't sound like that long ago but it was nine years ago.

[00:37:03] That is a great point that until Michonne soften that she was really be able to get him to talk about what broken and I saw miss the Niger era had said in some interview that she had to like stop taking it personally and realize wait something's going on with him and I need to.

[00:37:20] Figure it out you know just get for a second get over just being angry and just figured out so you could feel that in the episode where she just sort of felt a little more at peace with it and then the little more able to like dig in and figure I was going on absolutely catch more flies with honey.

[00:37:38] Lex universe said this may be one of the best episode I mean I would I would have been pissed to don't get around travel all that way and got went through all that just to get him out and he doesn't want to come with you and tricks you to try to trick you in believing yeah right.

[00:37:53] Lex universe great name says this may be one of the best episodes of the walking that I've ever seen but honestly the first 20 minutes I was just acting myself where the hell are they how come there working computers and later how is there the

[00:38:06] Epping battery powered vacuum cleaner almost 15 years into the apocalypse but the other half G's I think Michonne spoke for all of us when she told Rick in a bank when she told Rick and eventually his reaction Rick has never been my favorite walking dead character

[00:38:20] but Andrew Lincoln was simply amazing at that moment goosebumps everywhere now just please get them back to Alexandria maybe carols came back and let's she means he means the comment from the

[00:38:33] Dino show and let's deal with the CRM and some walking dead season 12 kind of story with all the characters we love thanks for your great podcast Lex.

[00:38:43] Thanks for it.

[00:38:44] I don't think that would happen but it would be cool if it did.

[00:38:48] All right here's Rebecca.

[00:38:52] Hey Jason and Lucy it's Rebecca from Houston I wanted to finally call in about the ones who live the reshown series which I'm loving so much this last episode I think is just one of my top favorites in the entire walking dead universe.

[00:39:09] I just showed two very strong people when we're each other very well I love and of course this last episode like I you know when Rick was like well I got it you know stick but this is the only way to keep you safe as vice to here with the CRM I'm like no like Rick you're lying so I'm sure it was like you're lying to me and you're

[00:39:29] lying to me and you're lying to yourself like coffee up like like and when he like still was like no I gotta stay here she's like all right well I gotta go back to my kids like bye like she was she was not there to bullfitch she was like I came her to get you you don't want to go back.

[00:39:55] I'm not a kid but I know you're lying and that's mama buried there she was going to go back to her kids I was like oh he better follow her he better change his mind and like he followed her but then he was still like no I gotta stay with the CRM it's like dude like come on so she was forced to give him the ultimatum be like look the building is going to fall down and we're either going to die with it or you're going to get your act together we're getting out of here and yes that was for dramatic purposes but fine like and then when he said that he forgot.

[00:40:25] Carl oh my god my heart just shattered shattered and then she brings out the picture of him off it was just it was wonderful I loved it it was yeah what I I put it up there with the the bill and Frank episode from the last of us it was just so good.

[00:40:43] The humor in it you know what the defensive position and she was like okay commando like I I love that they weren't taking us for fools like it was shown how to respond into them but like yeah right she knew he was full of shit so when she called him out I'm like it was so good anyway I'm enjoying this show so much I'm enjoying your coverage I'm going to try and call in for the last two episodes.

[00:41:04] And yeah can we to hear you guys and talk to you later bye.

[00:41:09] Bye.

[00:41:10] Yeah, back up.

[00:41:11] Good to hear from you Rebecca.

[00:41:13] I've got Andy Fisher he says hello Jason I'm going to see me set high to me as well Andy I'm joking thank you for sharing my comments on the walking dead podcast the ones who live episode three bye.

[00:41:24] I wanted to respond to your question I said that we should shut the fuck up and make the cast roles I was referencing the episode of the walking dead were Carol after arriving in Alexandria for the first time

[00:41:35] the honest stealth act saying that the residents of Alexandria were children and that they basically couldn't handle the truth Darryl asks her about her house by fact and she says time to make the cast roles I was trying to say the machine is the opposite of stealth and the opposite of her carol would handle this situation and she was putting Rick and their family in danger.

[00:41:53] Thanks again for the wonderful podcast I never miss an episode don't get bit Andy you have now won the podcast you get to take it over now as we did.

[00:42:03] Yeah, I didn't get it.

[00:42:05] I was like dude that's really rude.

[00:42:08] I'm so sorry.

[00:42:09] Well, I'm glad you wrote back and didn't just describe and Hayden from Detroit another listener wrote in explaining that same thing

[00:42:18] so there was another listener that had your back and Indian so glad you wrote in we're sorry we didn't catch that next week it will be the walking dead cast was Hayden and Andy because we're retiring because we're embarrassed.

[00:42:30] No, that's good and yeah it was very cool of you to write in and explain that because yeah.

[00:42:35] Andy also said Andrew Lincoln revealing Rick sadness to spare and fear and deny career loving him through it what a touching beautiful episode only in the walking dead therapy session

[00:42:45] the middle of a collapsing building surrounded by living dead long live the walking dead don't get bit.

[00:42:51] Andy, I like that.

[00:42:53] I wonder if anyone's ever said that before.

[00:42:57] Andrea maintenance says I have so many thoughts in this episode the writing and the acting was poetry so beautifully done Lucy you went over the points the voice over made that made so much sense.

[00:43:09] Since this episode was so much like a play reminded me of a narrator speaking in between scenes so unique I love that.

[00:43:16] I have to admit I spent the first half of the episode being so mad at Rick.

[00:43:20] I said to my friend who was watching with me just like Lucy said Rick's a dick.

[00:43:25] But it just made the ending so much more satisfying to see Rick back the chemistry between denying Andy on this show is intense I love the call back to we are the walking dead.

[00:43:36] I cried when she gave him the phone with Carl I could go on but honestly you guys covered it so well I loved it and I love your podcast.

[00:43:43] Oh Andrea.

[00:43:46] It's really nice.

[00:43:48] All right here's call for Megan or for Megan.

[00:43:51] Hi Jason and Lucy it's Megan layman I have a couple of random thoughts kind of so far this season on the ones who live first of all on.

[00:44:00] Missions fake name Dana Bethune I knew that name sound from there so I looked at up and there was a woman named Mary McLeod Bethune who was the daughter of formerly enslaved parents and she was one of the most important black educators.

[00:44:14] And civil and women's rights leaders of the 20th century according to this website and I suspect that she did not pick that name randomly.

[00:44:24] I think maybe Michelle would have been aware of this person and chosen that as a tribute we actually had a community center in our city named after her so that's why I name sounds it's not familiar.

[00:44:40] Okay so next interesting thing as a Pennsylvania resident I picked up on the detail that was mentioned Okafore said that the CRM military was basically formed out of a remnant of the Pennsylvania National Guard and I spoke with somebody at work who served in our national guard.

[00:44:58] And he actually just did a year long rotation and he is an attorney.

[00:45:03] He told me about the history of the national guard dating back to 1747 so actually predating the US it's the oldest national guard.

[00:45:11] I think the oldest standing military in the United States.

[00:45:15] Benjamin Franklin created a unit called the Associators in Philadelphia and they had to overcome the long pass of his tradition of Pennsylvania's founding Quakers.

[00:45:25] They are still in existence today and in fact he said that it is so prestigious to be a member of the Associators that the people who are selected for that typically return their salary and they do it as a basically as a volunteer honor to serve in that capacity.

[00:45:42] Now I did describe the CRM and their black helicopters and things and he laughed a little bit and said yeah I don't know if we have all that.

[00:45:51] So I thought that was pretty cool.

[00:45:54] Another detail that I haven't heard anyone mention but I think it was an episode two or three.

[00:46:00] I saw a walker that looked like I felt like she was styled to look like the little girl walker with the bath robe and like the bunny.

[00:46:11] She looked very much like that walker that Brick had to I believe kill or at least push out of the way in the scenes.

[00:46:17] So I wanted to maybe else picked up on that. I feel like it was a homage to the pilot and I think there have been some other things like that that you all have mentioned so I wouldn't be surprised if that was done in purpose.

[00:46:27] Yeah, a random mental amusing I wish that Nat with all of his gadgets had survived to team up with Eugene because that would have been amazing.

[00:46:36] A partnership for the ages.

[00:46:39] And finally had some mixed feelings about this week's episode. I don't think I loved it as much as everyone else did but I need to do a second full watch and I need the benefit of time after I think the rest of the season ends to really give it his proper perspective.

[00:46:53] All right, I'm running long so I'll wrap it up. Thanks. Bye.

[00:46:56] That was great.

[00:46:57] Oh, Megan. So good to hear from you. That was fascinating.

[00:47:00] Yeah, I love that.

[00:47:01] I love that.

[00:47:02] It has a different perspective with stuff we didn't think to look into.

[00:47:05] Yeah.

[00:47:06] So cool.

[00:47:07] Another Andrea, we've got our friend Andrea Hartfield Olmsted who says,

[00:47:11] Hi, Jason Lucy, oh man, one episode.

[00:47:14] I have to say Rick was pissing me off this episode in the beginning and really shows how frustrating it can be being married.

[00:47:20] He got on my nerves almost as much as Laurie did in the early seasons with her stupidity, LOL until you realize he had lost a piece of himself and how detached he had become.

[00:47:30] And it was so sad.

[00:47:32] It really makes you understand but it's like to lose someone and yourself and how it can affect you and really appreciate love, very realistic, so powerful and great writing.

[00:47:41] Thank God, Michonne got through to him.

[00:47:43] I was worried that wasn't going to happen.

[00:47:45] I didn't expect them to escape like this though I expect I didn't expect them to escape like this.

[00:47:50] I expected a huge showdown at the CRM, but this is better.

[00:47:53] Lastly, I think we all thought the phone drawings were always Michonne and Judith.

[00:47:57] Turns out the artist was always trying to draw Carl the whole time when she gave him the phone my heart broke and I cried.

[00:48:03] Great episode to see you next time.

[00:48:05] Thanks Andrea.

[00:48:06] Oh, I didn't catch that but I think you're right.

[00:48:08] They've tried to draw Carl.

[00:48:09] Yeah, because he wouldn't have really known Judith that way.

[00:48:13] No, he was a baby.

[00:48:15] Yeah, he wouldn't even have known her with the longer hair.

[00:48:17] Yeah.

[00:48:18] And wearing that and everything.

[00:48:19] That's amazing.

[00:48:21] Lizzie from Pittsburgh says, wow, what an episode of emotions.

[00:48:25] I absolutely could not stand Rick in the beginning of the episode such a dickhead.

[00:48:30] The whole time.

[00:48:31] Oh, man, I feel so bad for Rick.

[00:48:34] He's just been through so much.

[00:48:36] The whole time.

[00:48:37] I'm shaking my head for those who tell me I'm shaking my head.

[00:48:40] I mean, God, he cut off his hand to get back to this woman.

[00:48:45] He was kidnapped.

[00:48:46] Yeah, but also he's a rebar through him.

[00:48:49] He blew up.

[00:48:50] But also he was being a dickhead so it's what's gonna be true.

[00:48:54] You got to have sympathy for these people who are caught up in these things in my opinion.

[00:48:59] All right, not everyone agrees.

[00:49:01] No, we're becaring.

[00:49:02] No, we're like, I would say.

[00:49:04] I would say, I mean, I just believe in compassion but okay.

[00:49:08] I clearly don't admit.

[00:49:09] You know, that's fine.

[00:49:11] Yeah, that's right.

[00:49:13] You tell him when Michelle was telling him to it's telling it to him straight.

[00:49:17] I was so proud of her this entire episode.

[00:49:19] She's one of the strongest characters I've seen on TV, both mentally and physically.

[00:49:23] By the end, I was thinking Rick has a lot of making up to do to her.

[00:49:27] The one thing I noticed from this episode was if you look closely at the walkers outside of the glass building,

[00:49:32] it looked like the CRM chlorine gasped this group by the way the walker's skin was peeled, peeled away.

[00:49:38] I compared to Nats group but they got gasped.

[00:49:41] Just thought that was so interesting.

[00:49:42] Wow, that's a great point.

[00:49:45] Interesting possibility.

[00:49:46] I think they wouldn't want to work with this looks to be intelligent group of people.

[00:49:51] Do you think we're going to get a second season?

[00:49:54] I hope so.

[00:49:55] Please, Lucy and Jason tell me they have to love the pod as always.

[00:49:58] I mean, we don't know yet.

[00:49:59] We just know that the scum.

[00:50:00] Still no announcement.

[00:50:01] Gimbal has been being really coy about it.

[00:50:02] I would think though that if we weren't going to get a second season,

[00:50:05] they would have definitively said so.

[00:50:08] I mean, it's so many think pieces about it,

[00:50:11] reviving the franchise and being a good thing for EMC plus they'd be mad not to talk about.

[00:50:15] Yeah, they're like we need to reshoot Rick's death scene

[00:50:18] and rework that contract.

[00:50:20] Yeah.

[00:50:21] In the finale.

[00:50:23] Damn it.

[00:50:24] All right, here is Sam from Boston.

[00:50:27] Hi Jason and Lucy.

[00:50:29] Well, this week on The Walking Dead,

[00:50:31] we got our first three act play with our two characters

[00:50:36] and it was new, which I appreciated.

[00:50:40] And Denny Guerrero, I think did a fantastic job writing it

[00:50:43] and the acting was phenomenal as usual.

[00:50:47] And it was my least favorite episode of the season so far.

[00:50:52] Interesting.

[00:50:53] I don't want to poo poo on it too much because I know some people are really going to love it

[00:50:57] and it was really, really well done.

[00:51:00] I think it's just not my kind of episode.

[00:51:04] Like that opening scene was great.

[00:51:06] I was in it, the writing that I acting for Denny Guerrero and Andrew Lincoln.

[00:51:11] Oh, that is incredible.

[00:51:14] And then it just kept being repetitive.

[00:51:16] And I'm like, I'm getting annoyed now and bored.

[00:51:20] And I'm just like looking and I'm like, I looked at my TV and I was like,

[00:51:23] oh my god, we have another 30 minutes.

[00:51:26] Oh no.

[00:51:28] And yeah, until like the last 10 minutes, I really didn't care about this stuff.

[00:51:33] Even the walkers.

[00:51:35] I was like, okay, whatever.

[00:51:37] There is just a lot of symbolism that I don't think I was really interested in as much as they wanted to introduce it.

[00:51:43] You know, the sexual healing part of the episode was pretty great.

[00:51:47] A little bit of a trope that the sexual healing leads to some sort of breakthrough.

[00:51:51] But okay, whatever.

[00:51:53] They're hot.

[00:51:54] You know, let it go.

[00:51:57] Yeah, like that final scene.

[00:51:59] I mean, there was just a lot of artistry going on and artistic license.

[00:52:04] And I think a lot of people are really going to resonate with that.

[00:52:06] It's just not my cup of tea.

[00:52:08] So I just was sort of bored, especially as the adrenaline fueled episode of last week.

[00:52:13] I don't know if maybe this should have been shown back to back or something.

[00:52:16] But I was kind of bored.

[00:52:18] I did like the ending as they exited stage left.

[00:52:22] Of them fighting together and Rick Spineley and his human clothes and not a CRM clothes.

[00:52:26] And it looks like all of this was almost for nothing at the end of them escaping together because they're going to have to go back to the CRM.

[00:52:34] There you go.

[00:52:35] There you go.

[00:52:36] I love it.

[00:52:37] Thanks for calling him Sam.

[00:52:39] Like I said, I wouldn't want every episode to be like this.

[00:52:43] I'd be like what the hell is going on here.

[00:52:47] It's become Masterpiece Theatre.

[00:52:50] Exactly.

[00:52:51] Ashley Edward Wolf says,

[00:52:53] Danyne Garira just slayed this episode.

[00:52:55] She's so talented.

[00:52:56] This episode is one of the best episodes of any Walking Dead show.

[00:53:00] It was so real and relatable.

[00:53:02] I could feel the frustration and the heartbreak when she was feeling the little jabs here and there were funny

[00:53:06] and again, so real when you're in a contentious situation with someone you love but do not like at the moment.

[00:53:11] We could clearly see Rick's PTSD and mental struggles throughout.

[00:53:15] I wasn't sure if he was going to go after her, but he did.

[00:53:18] They're struggling with the chandelier.

[00:53:20] I think it was the beginning of Rick coming back.

[00:53:22] He told me, shown what she needed to hear and what he needed to say that he would never leave her.

[00:53:26] That's why when they get back to the apartment, their love scene begins and that was also so real.

[00:53:31] For a moment in the beginning, I also thought,

[00:53:33] please don't let this be a dream like Lucy thought.

[00:53:35] Honestly, they should have just ended the show with them driving away.

[00:53:38] Now I'm scared about what's to come.

[00:53:40] Ashley, you and me both.

[00:53:44] Yeah, he's severe.

[00:53:46] He's dealing with some severe PTSD trauma.

[00:53:50] Did I get rid of it?

[00:53:51] I'm sure it'll come up in the news, but did I get rid of a lot of research into PTSD for this episode?

[00:53:56] Oh, yeah.

[00:53:57] Yeah.

[00:53:58] Thank you, Ashley.

[00:53:59] Here's Danielle Demit, Joe's who says Rick has serious PTSD and it's going to take a very long time for him to work through the bulk of it and learn to live with what's left.

[00:54:09] His brief anxiety attacking this episode was very telling.

[00:54:13] This episode gave me hope, but it also made me really sad.

[00:54:16] Yeah, totally.

[00:54:17] This episode spelled out what I was saying in my comment for the episode one,

[00:54:21] the very first line we heard in that episode was the clip of Rick saying

[00:54:25] we are the walking dead when discussing his grandfather and I said

[00:54:28] that was exactly what Rick was doing in the CRM telling himself he was already dead in order to put the pain away and get through each day.

[00:54:35] I'm glad he expressed it openly in this episode.

[00:54:39] Unfortunately, there's zero chance.

[00:54:41] J.D.S is just going to accept that Rick and Michonne are dead.

[00:54:44] She will at least suspect that they may have survived that crash

[00:54:47] and may have even caused the crash as a way to get away.

[00:54:50] Every.

[00:54:51] Maybe they did.

[00:54:53] Going home is a scary proposition because it really does put everyone there at risk.

[00:54:58] Maybe they can just go home, gather Judith and RJ

[00:55:01] and head off on their own as a family to start a new somewhere hidden.

[00:55:05] Yeah.

[00:55:06] They'll be on the run all the time.

[00:55:07] They can explain to everyone that if anyone comes asking they have to say that they haven't seen Rick or Michonne

[00:55:12] and I guess explain away Judith's absence which is easy enough.

[00:55:16] Maybe the whole Grimes family will go on a mission to find Darryl and Carol, family vacated friends.

[00:55:21] Oh, that's a bad idea.

[00:55:23] Honestly.

[00:55:25] Be lovely.

[00:55:26] That's not a bad idea.

[00:55:28] All right, here is Jenny Ryan.

[00:55:30] Yay.

[00:55:31] Jenny liked this one.

[00:55:32] I know I don't know.

[00:55:33] Hello, Jenny from Saskatoon here.

[00:55:35] Sorry to disappoint my fans who love that I hate the show but I actually don't hate the show.

[00:55:41] I hate so many things about the show and I quite like this episode.

[00:55:46] It's a real emotional roller coaster for me.

[00:55:49] Can't decide if I love it or hate it.

[00:55:52] A bit like Michonne, how she feels about Rick.

[00:55:54] Anyway, here are my thoughts.

[00:55:57] First things first, I really thought it was interesting how the crux of this episode was Michonne trying to explain to Rick

[00:56:04] that what he believes isn't real.

[00:56:07] It's a fantasy.

[00:56:08] The CRM is not the thing that he thinks it is and I kind of felt like Michonne was saying that to us, to the audience.

[00:56:15] I think it's proof that in my fantasy it's proof that she and Andrew Lincoln are like,

[00:56:23] it's everything is terrible.

[00:56:25] We're doing our best with what they gave us because really she stripped away all the things.

[00:56:30] She's like, all that stuff, it doesn't matter.

[00:56:32] Nothing, the only thing that matters is us and our story and us and her family.

[00:56:36] All the rest of it is garbage.

[00:56:39] Anyway, so I thought that was interesting how she's like, you got to get it out of your system

[00:56:45] that that's the story because the story is actually our story.

[00:56:48] Not the CRM story.

[00:56:51] I also, a couple of things, I liked how the building is crumbling around them as they're trying to figure out what they're going to do.

[00:56:58] If we don't get out of this story, we're going to die.

[00:57:02] It will crumble.

[00:57:04] The crumbling building is metaphor for perhaps the larger arc of where this series is going.

[00:57:13] Scott Gimple's behind all this and has been.

[00:57:17] I think it's a fantasy.

[00:57:21] It's an interesting one.

[00:57:24] Okay.

[00:57:25] I think they're into it.

[00:57:27] Yeah, they're into the story.

[00:57:29] I liked how she loved Ramona.

[00:57:35] So if you're not familiar with the Ramona Coby series, Beverly Cleary was children's librarian in Portland actually.

[00:57:43] And so I wondered if that was some, I'm sure it's not but so she was a children's librarian in Portland, Oregon and she wrote a series.

[00:57:50] I wrote a whole bunch of books and 100 Huggins was her most famous, probably the most famous but Ramona.

[00:57:55] Their Ramona books are about a little girl who defies authority, has her own take on things, has it really a hard time following the rules.

[00:58:03] Ramona Quimby is actually one of the best written children in all of literature in my opinion.

[00:58:10] She's very real and she's very actually similar to my show.

[00:58:13] So I thought that was interesting that they had her love Ramona.

[00:58:16] And I did wonder if perhaps they caused the crash by jumping out of the airplane.

[00:58:21] I mean, the helicopter so was that was actually something like maybe if they hadn't jumped then it wouldn't have crashed.

[00:58:29] So maybe she didn't save their lives. Maybe she caused a death of all the people in the helicopter and it's good to try.

[00:58:34] If Rick was flying it would have been more interesting.

[00:58:38] She described it again as the pilot seat.

[00:58:40] She did as well.

[00:58:42] I know.

[00:58:43] Anyway, finally I wanted to say I don't think that Rick was in a cult.

[00:58:47] I don't think he felt it was a cult.

[00:58:49] I think it was he needed to put his loyalty somewhere and he...

[00:58:53] I think he was definitely sucked in and terrified by them but I don't think he was a cult so much as a prisoner.

[00:59:00] And I think if they wanted it to be a cult, if that's how they wanted to set it up.

[00:59:07] Because I think they were trying to make this episode seem like it was a cult.

[00:59:11] But then the first two episodes should have been really showing his indoctrination.

[00:59:15] So like the first episode about him fleeing and then the second or something.

[00:59:20] And we needed to see him like attending classes and actually feeling like it's positive

[00:59:24] but I feel like he just made a choice and then he needed to stick to his choice and then was afraid if he stepped out of his choice what would happen.

[00:59:32] Anyway, yeah.

[00:59:33] I didn't hate it.

[00:59:34] I mean, I didn't think it was...

[00:59:36] Yeah, it was pretty good but I am worried now that we're going to go back to...

[00:59:41] We're just going to bounce back and then I'm going to be mad again.

[00:59:44] So for now though, I have not.

[00:59:46] Okay, goodbye.

[00:59:47] She might have a point.

[00:59:49] I think there are some signs that he was starting to drink the Kool-Aid to borrow a phrase

[00:59:56] but I think it is a lot just a trauma response.

[01:00:00] Like maybe that was what the ending was about, you know, like...

[01:00:03] Oh, it wasn't really about him believing in the CRM.

[01:00:06] It was about him being afraid to lose Michonne all over again.

[01:00:09] And it's something as well about the mental gymnastics we do to adapt to the situations that were in through situations we don't like.

[01:00:16] Yeah.

[01:00:17] I knew it, Jenny.

[01:00:18] Their kids, their kids.

[01:00:20] I thought you might like this episode.

[01:00:22] Okay.

[01:00:23] But I'm forgotten about the children's books as well.

[01:00:26] I was like, oh yeah, yeah.

[01:00:27] I kind of want to go and read Ramon then I know.

[01:00:29] Because Jenny is a librarian, right?

[01:00:31] She is.

[01:00:32] Children's librarian amongst other many wonderful things but yeah, I think that was her...

[01:00:38] her professional training was that?

[01:00:41] Yes.

[01:00:42] So Randy Stevenson, another member of the Welcome to the Apocalypse podcast team along with Jenny, says...

[01:00:49] Maybe Darryl and Rick met up prior to Darryl going to France.

[01:00:52] Darryl just wasn't that excited to talk about it.

[01:00:55] And Carol was saying, Shamrock shakes her back at McDonald's.

[01:00:58] That's right.

[01:00:59] Use off-record Sham Randy and get a second one free.

[01:01:02] What does a Shamrock milkshake taste like?

[01:01:04] That's like a question from Lucy not from Randy.

[01:01:07] Minty sugar.

[01:01:08] Oh.

[01:01:09] You know I don't hate it, I would try it.

[01:01:12] Um, Randy says...

[01:01:14] As for this episode, it was interesting to see Rick battle his programming.

[01:01:18] It reminded me of interacting with someone who has an addiction.

[01:01:21] In the beginning, they tried to encourage you to join in with them.

[01:01:24] Just over a few drinks with me which is Rick bringing Rick bringing Michoan into the CRM.

[01:01:29] Then when Michoan says the sucks, Rick is like, fine, you don't have to drink but I'm still going to...

[01:01:34] The more she confronts his problem, the more excuses he comes up with.

[01:01:37] Like, I've got it under control or I'm just doing CRM on the weekends or in a stressful day.

[01:01:42] She even says, I don't like the way you are with them.

[01:01:45] What's tough about this dynamic and what I suspect was frustrating to some viewers is that it's not really Rick responding.

[01:01:50] And what is responding doesn't answer to logic.

[01:01:53] So you end up with these circle conversations, which in real life are also incredibly frustrating.

[01:01:59] That type of deep programming takes time and patience and I think it's rare for a TV show to represent that effort accurately.

[01:02:05] So I appreciate that they dedicated an entire episode to this but as always through a few zombies into the mix as well.

[01:02:12] As always, loving the coverage. Bye.

[01:02:15] Hi Randy.

[01:02:18] Randy in the chat they were talking about when Thorne Pearl Thorne had her gun trained on Michone that it reminded them of that shame with Dale right there when she had his gun trained on Rick.

[01:02:32] And so Andy, I mean, Randy did a video of it. He spliced it together.

[01:02:37] So I'll post that up on our YouTube channel podcast to go if you guys want to see that.

[01:02:42] It's funny.

[01:02:43] I sent it to Peter and he just replied all the awards.

[01:02:48] Chris Lee both says, hi Jason and Lucy.

[01:02:51] Sometimes the best part about this show is listening to your podcast but not this week.

[01:02:56] But this week it was.

[01:02:58] The actual show.

[01:03:00] Even if I am met about an episode the podcast is always enjoyable. Thank you Chris.

[01:03:04] This episode was one of those for me.

[01:03:06] I'm sure glad there was a lake there for Rick and Michonne to land in.

[01:03:09] And I would have liked more details on how they made it up to the swanky condo slash couples therapy retreat.

[01:03:15] They had no counselor.

[01:03:17] I guess they needed more time for the couples therapy sessions scenes which though necessary I found hard to watch mom dad stop fighting.

[01:03:25] Good acting in there.

[01:03:27] I like the glimpses of the Michonne that we don't normally see.

[01:03:31] Totally. Her guard was down a bit as she talked about the book from her childhood that she liked in her very career paths and college.

[01:03:38] Lincoln did a really great job in this one.

[01:03:40] I still think that he would have ended up burning down the CRM from the inside.

[01:03:44] And or making sure it was safe for him to get back somehow.

[01:03:47] It just would have taken more time.

[01:03:49] That's interesting. However, time is something that you can't get back.

[01:03:53] I'm going to show him pointed out in her references to how long she's been away from the kids.

[01:03:58] Speaking of kids, this RJ she's describing I would like to meet him.

[01:04:03] He sounds more interesting than the RJ we have seen because yeah, she's like oh he's stubborn and he's.

[01:04:10] He looks just like you Rick.

[01:04:12] Like are you she's just making that up?

[01:04:16] Well Lucy they finally banged it out or more like they made sweet sweet love.

[01:04:22] The sequence of our heroes fighting their way out of the building could only have been made better if the journey tune don't stop believing was playing in the background.

[01:04:31] Randy Europe.

[01:04:33] I predict these crazy kids are going to be having some crazy. Oh yeah, that's right.

[01:04:39] We're the ones who mentioned that for Randy on the podcast.

[01:04:42] Yeah, we were.

[01:04:44] Yeah, I think my head sorry.

[01:04:46] They're going to be having some crazy makeup sex on their road trip back home.

[01:04:49] I hope that stick shift doesn't get in the way.

[01:04:52] I'm going to red light myself not make obvious, but shown and stick shift jokes and clothes by saying I hope you're both well and here's looking forward to a great road trip for our heroes.

[01:05:04] Oh thank you.

[01:05:06] I'm going to choose to interpret road trip for your heroes as Jason and I's vacation in Scotland this summer rather than record showing so thank you for that we want a nice thanks.

[01:05:14] Thank you.

[01:05:15] Appreciate it.

[01:05:16] Here's teach.

[01:05:18] Wow, this is teach from Wisconsin.

[01:05:21] I just finished episode four of the ones who live that that was so good.

[01:05:27] I'm sure everybody's going to be talking about the moment she gave him the iPhone with Carl and then it's just the way it closed so many plot points of like you couldn't remember his face.

[01:05:37] That's why he couldn't get right on the drawings.

[01:05:39] It was.

[01:05:40] Oh my gosh, I believe you all had said, did I grow wrote this and holy shit is she good at this?

[01:05:47] I'm just blown away at how invested I was in Rick deciding to go home as opposed to blowing up.

[01:05:56] Obviously they're going to blow up the gathering of serum leaders, but wow, it was so good.

[01:06:04] I can't even cannot even believe how perfect it was just on every note.

[01:06:11] I don't know what we need two more episodes for this was it.

[01:06:14] This is it and it put it put a ribbon on it.

[01:06:17] Did we still say that put a ring on it, maybe?

[01:06:21] You don't you don't have to watch it anymore, teach Lucy's not going to.

[01:06:26] Yeah, I'm giving up after today.

[01:06:27] You guys.

[01:06:28] He says it's clear and obvious that they're going to blow up this group of leaders.

[01:06:35] And that just him saying that made me wonder, oh, they're maybe they're you know, they're throwing a big red herring out there for us.

[01:06:43] Maybe maybe.

[01:06:45] Oh, he was good to hear from you.

[01:06:47] Yeah, that was great.

[01:06:48] I'm glad you loved it so much.

[01:06:50] Elena LeChef Rose says hi, Jason Lucy.

[01:06:53] First of all, what a fantastic episode.

[01:06:55] I've enjoying the series so far and was delighted by the storytelling shift of this episode emotionally intelligent script.

[01:07:01] Actually was complete commitment by deny career and Andrew Lincoln for those who were upset with Rick for breaking up with Michonne.

[01:07:07] We're for not explained to her why he believed the only way to keep her and their family safe was to stay behind the CRM.

[01:07:13] I had a completely different read on the situation from the jump.

[01:07:17] I understood why Rick acted the way he did.

[01:07:19] He'd spent years being subjugated and reached the point as evidence in the first episode of either killing himself or finding a way to go on existing.

[01:07:27] When living under such dress, one has to rewire their brain and destroy any creeping thoughts or beliefs that things will get better.

[01:07:34] Somewhat analogous to someone who's been in prisons for years and is released after having served their sentence.

[01:07:40] One could look at that and say they now have their freedom physically perhaps but that person has to adjust to a world which has undoubtedly changed on multiple levels and the definition of freedom becomes more nuanced.

[01:07:51] One doesn't just reenter society suddenly able to relate to the environment in which they find themselves nor can they be expected to be the person they were before such a life altering experience.

[01:08:02] Rick has essentially been living in an existential time zone and couldn't possibly react as we'd all prefer or expect from someone so emotionally and psychologically compromised.

[01:08:11] An equally machoing saying their reunion wasn't at all actually imagined, totally believable even down to their sex scene.

[01:08:18] The vulnerability throughout was so well acted but that scene in particular felt very true.

[01:08:23] Really liking the ones who live in the daraldix and spin-offs and as always loving the coverage of all things in the podcast universe.

[01:08:29] Thank you.

[01:08:30] Elina, that's so articulate.

[01:08:32] I love it.

[01:08:33] Yeah, and I mean I'm really glad they did that because if he hadn't been impacted by it being kidnapped for the years, it would just seem dumb.

[01:08:43] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:08:44] All right.

[01:08:45] Here's Gloria.

[01:08:46] Gloria.

[01:08:47] Hi guys, Gloria from Salem.

[01:08:50] I just finished watching episode four, the one that deny wrote for the third time.

[01:08:57] Oh my god, I'm exhausted and very emotional.

[01:09:01] Talk about Stockholm syndrome.

[01:09:04] Rick is not himself.

[01:09:06] I wanted at first, I wanted Michonne to slap the shit out of him so badly because that soldier boy really needed to snap out of it.

[01:09:15] But then God, I remember my psych major days in college and yep, okay.

[01:09:22] Now I get it when she called him, Commander.

[01:09:25] Oh my god, I literally left my ass off.

[01:09:28] Loved all the conversation between them.

[01:09:31] I really thought hearing about RJ would finally work for him.

[01:09:36] But all that trauma, all the pain, all the hurt inside and out.

[01:09:43] Oh my god, those couple of flashbacks were so good.

[01:09:47] Oh come, we all miss you kid.

[01:09:50] Watching that scene, if I'm deciding on the bed, I had to keep going back and rewatching it because I couldn't see through my tears.

[01:09:58] It's crying so much.

[01:09:59] Jesus.

[01:10:01] Oh, and then he says he knows how to be dead and live.

[01:10:05] Jesus Christ, guy.

[01:10:07] Have you guys ever felt like that at any time in your lives?

[01:10:11] The closest thing I ever came to it was the night my mom died.

[01:10:16] I'm losing a child and the love of your life though.

[01:10:19] I don't even want to think about it.

[01:10:21] Deny is a phenomenal writer.

[01:10:25] Phenomenal.

[01:10:26] This episode was the best walking dead episode I've ever seen.

[01:10:31] Ever.

[01:10:32] A masterclass.

[01:10:34] Definitely.

[01:10:35] Oh my god, I can't say enough about it.

[01:10:39] And then the stick shift.

[01:10:41] Oh my god, that was so funny.

[01:10:43] I learned how to drive on a stick shift by the way.

[01:10:46] Oh god, he didn't know how to.

[01:10:48] Oh my god, it was just funny.

[01:10:50] Glad they ended on a happy note.

[01:10:53] Rick finally sounded like himself again and all of a sudden there they are, two person army all by themselves.

[01:11:00] This was just beautiful art.

[01:11:03] All of it.

[01:11:05] So that's it for me.

[01:11:07] We have a good week guys.

[01:11:09] Love you.

[01:11:10] Love you too, Gloria.

[01:11:12] I can't say I've ever felt like that.

[01:11:14] Whatever that is where you feel like you have to think of yourself as already dead.

[01:11:19] Only in that.

[01:11:22] I remember I told this Karen one time and she thought it was morbid but whenever I am worried about something or

[01:11:30] I'm scared of doing something I just remember that I'm going to die at some point and life is short

[01:11:35] and you might as well.

[01:11:36] Yeah, I think about that look.

[01:11:38] Yeah.

[01:11:39] Yeah.

[01:11:40] But that makes me feel better in a weird way.

[01:11:43] Yeah, it does sort of like, well we have a short let's try it.

[01:11:46] Yeah, right.

[01:11:48] All right.

[01:11:49] Anya from Croatia.

[01:11:51] Croatia.

[01:11:52] Amazing country.

[01:11:54] I never been like to go.

[01:11:56] It's beautiful.

[01:11:57] So as high guys, I don't even know where to start.

[01:11:59] Firstly the episode is one of the best the walking dead ever aired.

[01:12:02] Denai is made for this.

[01:12:04] She made Rick and Michonne feel so human, not like characters which the walking dead has a tendency to make really unrealistic and fictiony dialogue.

[01:12:11] Yeah, she needs I want to see what Denai would do with Eugene.

[01:12:15] The little ways in which Denai acted like smiling when Rick said something shocking or hurtful.

[01:12:20] I think that's a reaction a lot of us have.

[01:12:22] Yeah.

[01:12:23] And I don't even have to comment on Andrew's performance they're both so so so good.

[01:12:29] One of my favorite moments was when Michonne told Rick the only time I feel safe is when I'm with you because Michonne's character is such a tough badass who doesn't depend on anyone.

[01:12:37] So for her to tell him that means so much to add to that Rick's whole mission in life overall is to protect people he loves.

[01:12:44] An imbeautiful scene was when he started having a panic attack during the sex scene and probably for the first time in eight years, he felt safe.

[01:12:51] He wasn't the one making sure everyone else was he felt protected by Michonne in that moment.

[01:12:56] And it was really touching.

[01:12:58] I agree.

[01:12:59] I cried a lot during this but when they put Chandler rigs on my screen, I lost it.

[01:13:05] I know I wonder if Chandler rigs saw that I'm sure he did.

[01:13:09] I wonder if you knew it was coming.

[01:13:11] I'm so glad Coral was mentioned and actually was a big part of Rick's whole journey in the CRM me to also I just love the way Rick is just obsessed with her.

[01:13:22] I mean, one thing we didn't say I don't think we really hit when we podcasted on the episode is anytime something really good happens in the walkie-dew.

[01:13:33] I know.

[01:13:34] I'm not sure if you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:13:36] I'm not sure if you guys are interested in this episode or if you guys are interested in this episode, I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:13:43] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:13:45] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:13:46] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:13:47] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:13:48] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:13:49] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:13:51] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:13:53] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:13:55] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:13:57] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:13:59] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:01] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:03] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:05] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:07] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:09] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:11] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:13] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:15] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:17] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:19] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:21] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:23] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:25] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:27] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:29] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:31] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:33] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:35] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:37] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:39] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:41] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:43] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:45] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:46] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:48] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:50] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:52] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:54] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:56] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:14:58] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:15:00] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:15:02] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:15:04] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:15:06] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:15:08] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:15:10] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:15:12] I'm sure you guys are interested in this episode.

[01:15:14] Michonne literally gets into the driver's seat.

[01:15:18] She's in charge.

[01:15:20] She knows where she's going and she is taking them there,

[01:15:24] which I thought was a great little piece of symbolism.

[01:15:28] And it makes me very happy because Michonne is

[01:15:31] and always has been my favorite character in the show

[01:15:34] since she showed up in season three.

[01:15:36] I thought the podcast was great and I think it's also

[01:15:40] an illustration of how when the writing is really good,

[01:15:44] there's a lot to talk about.

[01:15:46] So I really loved this episode and Denai Gurrieta's writing.

[01:15:52] Really?

[01:15:54] Yeah.

[01:15:56] It just reminded me when we talked about the fear

[01:15:58] or the walking dead finale, we barely even talked

[01:16:00] about the episode at all.

[01:16:02] We were just like, so by doing what happened.

[01:16:04] Do you care what happened?

[01:16:06] There was a cat something happened, whatever.

[01:16:08] But you just added another little thing to that seat switching thing.

[01:16:12] Michonne, the driver's seat, that's great.

[01:16:14] Amazing.

[01:16:16] Christina Jones writes in,

[01:16:18] finally the episode clear has been toppled as my favorite walking dead episode

[01:16:22] with no way out now third.

[01:16:24] A few points.

[01:16:26] I kept feeling this uncomfortable nagging sensation

[01:16:29] after many repeated comments by fans about how Michonne needed to hide herself

[01:16:34] and I finally put my finger on it.

[01:16:36] A familiar microaggression.

[01:16:38] As a black woman, I cannot tell you how many times I've been coached

[01:16:42] or encouraged to dampen my passion, my confidence, how I speak,

[01:16:46] how I act to appease the powers that be as an act of conformity list,

[01:16:50] I bring attention, negative attention to myself.

[01:16:52] It kind of makes me love even more that Michonne rejected assimilation

[01:16:56] even at risk to herself because she refused to disassociate her identity

[01:17:00] for any purpose.

[01:17:02] Also, I'm sorry about a generalized statement expression

[01:17:04] of don't show them who you are, isn't context or fully lays out the wise behind it.

[01:17:08] Once you betray my trust, all better serve off, be it.

[01:17:12] I'm glad they didn't go the easy RG route to snap Rick out of it as many hoped.

[01:17:16] They truly put in the work to show the process of deeper programming someone

[01:17:20] and how hard Rick fought to maintain his illusion,

[01:17:22] versus the patience and love Michonne maintained until he could face his own fear.

[01:17:26] Thorne gets a bad rap.

[01:17:28] I think she's exactly what Rick could have become having lost

[01:17:31] and been recruited into Oak for his mission.

[01:17:33] I agree with that.

[01:17:35] They were both A's, tried to kill their Jailer to escape,

[01:17:37] was trapped and now he feels that the world's crumbling too

[01:17:41] now that she who he could talk to has become them.

[01:17:45] He held out longer and that should be commended

[01:17:47] but what happened to Thorne, who is rather likable,

[01:17:49] shows how even the best and respected of us can be brainwashed.

[01:17:53] Lastly it was so warm to see how profoundly that impacted her life

[01:17:56] and how Michonne still carries that grief for him.

[01:17:59] He became her second Andrea leading her back to the love of her life,

[01:18:03] the way her connection to Andrea led her discovering the love of her life.

[01:18:07] Oh Christina, I really appreciate this message

[01:18:11] and I've been really aware of not trying to speak for women of color

[01:18:21] when it comes to how Michonne is portrayed

[01:18:24] but I think the point you make about microaggression is so important.

[01:18:28] The way that Dinaigiri reports that space and rights that space

[01:18:32] from Michonne is incredible.

[01:18:34] I've been boring, I've been doing a little bit of critical reading

[01:18:39] about the walking dead because I'm thinking of writing a paper on it

[01:18:42] because that's how my brain works

[01:18:45] and there's a really interesting one about

[01:18:48] it's called The Importance of Necollected Intersections,

[01:18:51] Race and Gender in Contemporary Zombies, Text and Theories.

[01:18:54] It sounds really dry but it's essentially a love letter to how well Michonne

[01:19:00] wishes what they call critical black female spectatorship,

[01:19:05] which is like a long, convoluted way of saying she's essentially really kick ass.

[01:19:10] And I think you naming that is important because I think it's something

[01:19:14] that people are maybe not necessarily aware of so just yeah,

[01:19:17] appreciate you writing in about that.

[01:19:20] What would happen with that paper?

[01:19:22] I don't know, it might be public too,

[01:19:24] a journal maybe.

[01:19:26] Yeah, yeah, I hope you write it.

[01:19:28] It's interesting. I can't decide what angle to take

[01:19:31] and I don't think it is not my place to talk about the impact

[01:19:36] of sort of race and microaggressions because I hold an awful lot of privilege

[01:19:40] but it was a really cool...

[01:19:42] Yeah, it was really good.

[01:19:44] I'd love to talk to you, Marguestina.

[01:19:46] But yeah, just appreciate you writing in about that.

[01:19:49] Yeah, it's good to keep these things in mind.

[01:19:51] I also like you brought up how you know it was warm to see

[01:19:55] upper-failing that impacted your life and how she still carries that grief from.

[01:19:59] Like when she mentioned him a couple of times this episode,

[01:20:02] I like that because sometimes especially in previous eras,

[01:20:06] TV shows would have a big story and then just pretend it never happened.

[01:20:10] But clearly they spent a year together he had a big impact on her

[01:20:13] who would make sense for him to be out of her mind.

[01:20:15] Absolutely, he's her most recent profound loss.

[01:20:17] Yeah.

[01:20:18] Alright, here's good old Colin.

[01:20:21] Colin!

[01:20:22] Okay, here we go.

[01:20:24] It's my second watch through and I watched the second walk through

[01:20:27] with my girlfriend and it was very surprising to see me look over her

[01:20:32] crying at the same moment that I was laughing.

[01:20:37] Oh, I watched her.

[01:20:39] Colin.

[01:20:40] Uh, pardon my artistic tendencies of buttoning and unbucketing my jacket.

[01:20:47] I get very anxious.

[01:20:49] God damn it, Rick, pull your shit together.

[01:20:53] This frustrated me beyond belief.

[01:20:55] And yeah, way to go guys getting into a bright yellow Mazda truck

[01:21:00] with four tires in the back and a bunch of ethanol in the back seat.

[01:21:04] Oh, you're ground zero for a big CRM.

[01:21:09] Holo Blue.

[01:21:10] And not the truth.

[01:21:12] Great episode guys.

[01:21:13] I'm sorry about the popping.

[01:21:15] I'm just very anxious and I'm ready for next week.

[01:21:18] Appreciate you all.

[01:21:20] Thanks, Colin.

[01:21:21] Peace.

[01:21:22] Alright, here's a note from Dina who says.

[01:21:30] Yeah, love Dina.

[01:21:31] In honor of St. Patrick's Day I say I say Jesus and Mary Joseph.

[01:21:39] That photo of Carl Rick noticing the scar.

[01:21:42] Ramone the pest, the car commercial.

[01:21:45] Okay, the last one is joke.

[01:21:48] Powerful and heavy.

[01:21:49] This was a perfectly written episode.

[01:21:52] And spectacularly executed especially that scene when Michonne demands

[01:21:56] Rick to be courageous and believe in their mission to return home.

[01:22:00] It was Lady Macbeth's plea to Macbeth with a twist instead of acting

[01:22:04] with the intent to murder let the intent be love.

[01:22:08] Oh, you could feel her anguish when she confesses her guilt and fear

[01:22:12] for leaving her kids to pursue what might be a ghost.

[01:22:15] She may have told Judith to listen to Tia Rosita and Uncle Darrell

[01:22:21] but she knew she was really leaving Judith alone with the burden

[01:22:24] of raising RJ.

[01:22:26] She abandoned her children.

[01:22:28] Good for Dina for recognizing this well done.

[01:22:31] Yeah, yeah it was well written as far as her carrying the weight

[01:22:37] of that and the guilt and not being anxious about not knowing whether

[01:22:41] they're even alive.

[01:22:42] Yeah.

[01:22:44] Dina is a fine playwright and actress.

[01:22:46] She goes on I love Carol but I'm not psyched at all about the Carol Darrell show.

[01:22:51] Their lives are forever intertwined and when the main show ended

[01:22:54] their story arc was complete.

[01:22:56] Lifelong best friends.

[01:22:58] What more can the writers give them except romance?

[01:23:01] If they pull a molder in skull it will destroy everything the writers built over 12 years.

[01:23:05] A reunion is necessary but no need for an entire spin off.

[01:23:09] No romance please leave that to Rick and Michonne with much love, Dina.

[01:23:13] I suspect that they will not have Darrell and Carol get together.

[01:23:16] I think at this point they understand that they work together as really good friends

[01:23:20] and I hope I'm right about that.

[01:23:23] But who knows?

[01:23:24] First episode of the next season we hear sexy light but cameras.

[01:23:29] We're like oh.

[01:23:30] That feels gross.

[01:23:32] What's that Parisian like?

[01:23:35] J'etat ms.

[01:23:36] We do the band.

[01:23:39] I was in parent.

[01:23:41] Either I saw this in a movie or it was when I was walking down the street in Paris.

[01:23:45] I can't remember for sure which but I remember hearing we.

[01:23:48] They were filming while you were there amazing.

[01:23:55] All right here's Gemma I bet you Gemma loved it.

[01:23:59] Yeah.

[01:24:00] I just want to see this gentleman from South Wales be back with an episode for the Wonder Live.

[01:24:08] Sorry I haven't called in for the last couple of weeks.

[01:24:11] I'm a bit busy over here.

[01:24:14] Okay so what do I do?

[01:24:17] Well I didn't like it.

[01:24:20] I loved it.

[01:24:22] I'm right.

[01:24:23] Anyone wants anyway but no I do like this fantastic.

[01:24:26] I just love the one on one between the two of them.

[01:24:30] So then the fact that Michelle needed to get out of Rick.

[01:24:35] The CRM basically and yeah really have it out.

[01:24:39] It was extremely sexy.

[01:24:41] You know we'll need to see between them especially at the end when she they have to switch seats in the car.

[01:24:48] That was quick funny.

[01:24:50] It's just lovely to see Rick and Michelle back together again little holy you know.

[01:24:55] But yeah obviously the bit that called me the most car.

[01:25:01] Seeing cars with it just every time I think we see a brushback table they mentioned his name.

[01:25:07] I just guess all emotional because you know as a long time fan car was always you know just staying.

[01:25:14] I don't think I've ever been able to go over his death.

[01:25:18] I'm really to the general big fun show yes and just seeing him in fact she had the fourth act have them.

[01:25:24] She described his image to the man at the TV art store you know and then Joe Carl and then the little flashbacks to him.

[01:25:33] The bit that always gets me is Rick's memory and little Carl and then walking up the road like so far.

[01:25:39] I guess every time.

[01:25:42] Yeah just the interesting scene breaking him down and getting past all the cult bullshit you know.

[01:25:49] And hopefully now we've got Rick back.

[01:25:52] I don't think it's completely that I don't think they're just going to drive off for the sudden let me let try a lot.

[01:25:58] I think everything's going to go bad next week and I just don't feel they can leave the whole six episodes out of resolution of what's going to happen with the CRM.

[01:26:08] They're going to you know destroy it in the next episode so this is going to come up for season two.

[01:26:13] I mean is it a nap time for Rick and the show to get home like because I think what all we all want is the union between Rick and Sean do the finale.

[01:26:24] And they're going to bring Kayleigh and the actor plays out to sorry about it back you know all this reunion that we will be meeting or you know.

[01:26:34] I think I'm wondering you know on the Darby's and show he speaks to Carl on the radio and she says level it to someone's back and he just don't know who she says like is it Rick and Sean?

[01:26:46] Like it was just don't know is this debugging me like how are they going to wrap this up just six episodes I don't know but I love that I thought it was one of my like you she said it's one of my top probably three episodes like I love his need and there's one of my favorites.

[01:27:01] Clear this one just excellent I just they just knock at the park anyway I can ramble on all day.

[01:27:09] And I love you guys this is our cat and now he's on the ice thank you Gemma.

[01:27:14] I want to be heard from Gemma while I was like I just like it but I was like she loves it.

[01:27:21] You know just her saying two more episodes isn't enough or you know that there should be a resolution with the CRM I'm like oh yeah there's no way there can be a resolution with the CRM in two episodes.

[01:27:35] So I think that's the way they've taken so long to build up this organization across multiple series over multiple years.

[01:27:43] That just makes me think even more that there's got to be more seasons of the show in store or play it out.

[01:27:51] It ends with you know that meme of the little girl watching the house burn only the little girl is shown with the later like.

[01:27:58] But I just think my theory is they intended on doing three movies and now they're doing you know they have three seasons worth of stories instead.

[01:28:07] And I feel like we'll see more of the inner workings that I don't think they're going to just use terio Quinn for like little cameos you know I feel like there's got to be yeah more more than just two episodes worth but we'll see absolutely.

[01:28:22] Um Kaley Fleming no Christie Fleming wish it was not I don't wish it was Kaley Fleming high Christie says Hey folks Christie from Toronto here still unpacking everything that happened in the episode as an old theater kid.

[01:28:34] I couldn't wait to see the beauty that deny would bring to the screen with her playwriting chops and I was not disappointed she rendered so wonderfully the minutiae of a relationship and showed us aspects of their togetherness that we don't get to see given that they're usually running from walkers.

[01:28:47] Or plotting the overthrow of whatever body organization is currently plaguing their us time.

[01:28:52] I will even happily file to the department of the suspension of disbelief the fact that anytime I hunkered down in a slowly collapsing building.

[01:29:00] Nookie is the last thing I'm thinking of but hey they earned it.

[01:29:04] I have become focused on the power and permanence of the written word versus the ephemeral nature of spoken words.

[01:29:10] All of the letters and journal entries on the risk they pose of discovered the writing on the walls that the characters frequently focus on even the credits have several shots of words ruins command majority in danger a reference to that lighter ice him.

[01:29:25] It's actually Rick's middle name.

[01:29:28] Sorry.

[01:29:31] I'm trying to figure out what they are pointing to in the show and would love your thoughts.

[01:29:36] One final thought and I'm sorry if this is going long an argument for proof of the second season we have two episodes left in the season.

[01:29:43] We know that the main crux of the show is Rick and Michonne being reunited but they've placed a ton of emphasis on the idea of changing or bringing down the CRM.

[01:29:51] It took two seasons to deal with the saviors swearing emoji another two to deal with the whispers and another two to deal with the civic republic.

[01:29:59] I think you mean the commonwealth by take your point and they were a small potato compared to the CRM.

[01:30:04] No way they could affect satisfactory change or walk away from the plot entirely as they walk into the sunset together.

[01:30:10] Just what I was just saying yeah.

[01:30:12] Yeah I know I'm like Jason did you read ahead.

[01:30:16] Also Rick is obsessed with them win mills.

[01:30:20] Episode one he stared at them every time he considered suicide and episode three he was constantly staring at them.

[01:30:26] Not sure if the writers are relating to the shape looking like the logo.

[01:30:29] I love a secret dictatorship with branding of the CRM or hinted tilting at win mills but Rick ain't no donkey or tea.

[01:30:37] Anyway thanks for letting me ramble my random thoughts loving the new show, hating the killing often new characters.

[01:30:43] Not no.

[01:30:45] I see you asked what our thoughts are about the written word and I feel like we would need to go look at that and formulate some thoughts we can't because I thought maybe we should look more closely at the opening credits but

[01:31:00] so we can't really just do it on the spot.

[01:31:03] I don't think but I would love to if any listeners want to write in about just sort of dissecting the opening credits for us and tell us what you think.

[01:31:12] And Kristi, Pete and I once had an argument about the phrase tilting at win mills because I thought it was made up but you have used it entirely correctly and it is in fact a real phrase which I learned from that argument.

[01:31:25] Yes well I'll find out if he listens to the podcast or not.

[01:31:30] But it means attacking imaginary enemies and it's something that comes from the unclety the novel.

[01:31:37] That is interesting. I think there's something there.

[01:31:39] Yeah, definitely.

[01:31:40] Yeah, definitely.

[01:31:41] Maybe doing that themselves.

[01:31:42] Oh for sure.

[01:31:43] All right thanks Kristi.

[01:31:44] Here's Maria Walker.

[01:31:46] Hello Jason and Lucy.

[01:31:48] My name is Maria.

[01:31:50] I am a first time caller.

[01:31:52] Short-time listener but don't let the short-time fool you.

[01:31:55] I listen to almost all I think of the cast of us.

[01:32:00] I'm one of those weirdos that like you watch as the walking dead over and over and over again for comfort.

[01:32:06] And I just wanted to say that I loved your coverage of episode four yesterday.

[01:32:12] Lucy, you just like took the words right out of my mouth.

[01:32:15] Like what do you keep saying?

[01:32:17] They just got a bang it out because that's what I kept thinking like they got to get together have that moment and then it'll work and it did mostly.

[01:32:25] Jason oh man you started talking about Colton.

[01:32:28] I was like yes yes yes yes yes yes yes because I've been obsessed with Colts for a long time and I also got turned on to them by the vow.

[01:32:36] And then you mentioned Stephen Hassan and I was like yes yes yes yes and then you talked about a little bit Coltie which is another one of my favorite podcasts.

[01:32:45] But what I really wanted to come in and say.

[01:32:48] Was give a little bit of perspective on the opening song which.

[01:32:53] Oh like it just set the tone so nicely but there's a history of that song that also like reflects the story of the episode.

[01:33:02] So it's if you listen to the lyrics, it's about a guy who's coming home from prison and him and his like his person have set up this signal.

[01:33:12] He still loves him. She'll tie a yellow ribbon around an oak tree which also comes from the practice of people putting yellow ribbons on trees to support like soldiers.

[01:33:23] And the lyrics are really interesting. I'll just read like a small section of them.

[01:33:28] Bus driver please look for me because I couldn't bear to see what I might see.

[01:33:32] I'm really still in prison and my love she holds the key a simple yellow ribbons what I need to set me free.

[01:33:40] And I think that's just really emblematic both the idea of being in the army from where this song was inspired from.

[01:33:46] But the actual underneath is that he's in prison like Rick is in a prison of his mind and also like he literally can't leave.

[01:33:57] And he just needs macho to give him like the right signals where he can like find his own freedom by really finding what's keeping him back.

[01:34:10] And that moment where he said that they took Carl like because the whole time I was like, what is this something's like really not reading to me.

[01:34:19] And he said that it made it all makes so much sense for me because it's a really deep internal brain thing which is exactly what happens in cults where things are taken from you.

[01:34:31] And the things that give you get used to give you strength are like turned into a weakness or are just removed from your life.

[01:34:40] And I just want to say thank you again this voice mail has been long. Okay, that's great.

[01:34:45] I love it Maria right back.

[01:34:47] It was only missing the zombie sound otherwise perfect.

[01:34:51] No, no, it's amazing. I hope you call in again and that was really poignant especially the thing about being a prisoner of his own mind.

[01:35:03] And you said, Michonne just needed to give him the right signals. And I thought yeah, she's like the key to the door of the prison of his mind. And she totally fit and worked.

[01:35:12] It also made me think about how we're all prisoners of our own mind to one degree or another where we don't reach our full potential.

[01:35:20] Yeah, all the time you know, but we can always grow I'm rambling now, but anyway, that was great.

[01:35:26] Great.

[01:35:27] Okay, Susan from Ohio says hi Jason Lucy first thank you so much for your commitment to all things the walking dead.

[01:35:35] You're welcome.

[01:35:37] Your coverage is the best of the best and I'm finally writing in nice.

[01:35:41] I came to the walking dead obsession a little late my adult daughter had been bugging me to start to show early on, but because I'm not a fan of horror of any kind I resisted during about of pneumonia.

[01:35:51] I relented out of boredom and started season one episode one and was instantly hooked.

[01:35:56] I've never missed a single episode of the main show or any of the spin-offs I even defended fear the walking dead even though there really wasn't a defense for seasons five to seven was there no.

[01:36:05] I mean we had people in our group who were defending it and then they would just drop off like flies you know, okay, you're right.

[01:36:12] Susan goes on my husband jokes if the show came out entitled the walking dead here's a zombie your stupid I would watch it.

[01:36:22] He's not wrong grabs the popcorn.

[01:36:26] So now do you my first in favors podcast during COVID and have listen to every single episode I couldn't wait to hear what the two of you think of the episode each week and can say it is lifted my own opinion after hearing you talk it through all.

[01:36:39] Thank you so thank you for being my walking dead friends.

[01:36:43] The ones who live has felt so elevated as a series in these first four episodes denies writing skills this week were me quality along with the performance of both actors.

[01:36:54] I hate it when mom and dad fight.

[01:36:57] I truly thought Michonne was going to throw Rick out of the high rise at one point because apparently the fall from the helicopter hadn't loosened the CRM hold on his screwed up brain.

[01:37:07] Deny can say more with a raise of an eyebrow or person over lips that most can pull in a full page of dialogue just brilliant.

[01:37:15] I think my favorite scene was when Michonne had finally reached her boiling point or stomping around that apartment gathering weapons to leave.

[01:37:22] That weekend man showed just what she has learned over the many years yeah that was great just breaking that lamp the pack the knife the broken lamp leg everything she needed without a second thought.

[01:37:33] I'm not sure if anyone else felt like there were throwbacks to the episode in the main show when it was just the two of them on the road looking for supplies fighting side by side and making love at night.

[01:37:44] But I think there was even a line from that episode thrown in wasn't Carl with them no no no they were just the only okay that was the crappy deer.

[01:37:54] Oh god I I feel overshot everything tells yeah.

[01:38:01] Seeing the car flashback just did me in fully crime movies so what did we learn this week one don't fuck with Michonne like seriously or she will smack you in the next week.

[01:38:12] Two trauma can be deep set and hard to move through even if you clearly see a better way three last but not least Rick Grimes who is a former deputy sheriff in a rural area of the south who grew up on a farm as we learn last week can't drive a stick I mean come on.

[01:38:28] He has a few I have video and screenshots thanks again for your podcast and reading my long ramblings maybe after all this time as a listener I might even call next time of course leaving my zombie sound yes.

[01:38:41] We love to hear thanks Susan that's great Susan.

[01:38:45] All right one last call from our good friend Thomas from Arizona.

[01:38:51] Hi Jason hi Lucy this is Thomas from AZ man what a banger of an episode this was I feel like this was probably the closest episode to something we were seen on the big screen on it just looks cinematic.

[01:39:07] A lot of the shots that were used and the score that was used gave me like something that you would see in the theaters.

[01:39:19] And I don't have much to say other than like towards the back half of the episode I almost called it a film from the in the back half of the episode.

[01:39:34] I knew Rick was being wishy washy and it was it was driving me nuts but I knew he was on board the moment they came out of the room he wasn't in his CRM uniform anymore he was like an blue shirt and I just had this.

[01:39:52] And he was wearing the same color blue shirt that Michonne was wearing.

[01:39:57] Earlier and now that I'm thinking about it is it the same shirt Michonne had on and he's wearing it now I don't remember but what I do remember is he wasn't wearing the CRM uniform anymore and that made me just feel like our Rick is back and then when they kicked the little.

[01:40:13] Zombies hand out of the elevator I just knew we were in for like a tree of for the last 15 minutes of the episode and we definitely was.

[01:40:23] So that's all I wanted to say about that hope you guys are doing great and I'll talk to you later bye.

[01:40:31] Love you Thomas thanks Thomas.

[01:40:34] Obvious threat to untold numbers of citizens.

[01:40:37] Are people it kills get up and Tim are they slow moving chief yeah there's their all messed up this is a walking dead cast news update.

[01:40:47] There are a few different places where deny career was interviewed I thought it would be good to check in and see what she had to say about this episode the first one is from the star Tribune which I think.

[01:41:01] God is in the town where she went to school anyway they said there are some moments of humor in this like when we learn that Rick can't drive a shift car where you purposely looking for chances to lighten the mood.

[01:41:14] She said I always do that even when I have a place set in a war zone there's humor it's just part of life you don't want to shut that out I love that yeah she's not wrong.

[01:41:24] Yeah pretty much yeah they said Michonne reveals that one of her favorite books as a kid was remote of the past was that did bit autobiographical she said a little that book was always around the house that an s e hintens novels I was the youngest of four and it just get being passed down it just came to me while I was writing I don't know s e hintens.

[01:41:45] The outsiders you don't know the outside.

[01:41:48] Nico's reading that in school right now and I actually never seen the movie so I want to watch it with him oh man that's gonna be like a classic yeah yeah it's good.

[01:42:00] Michonne also shares that she studied art history and creative writing in college was that based on your time at McAllister I guess that's the college.

[01:42:09] No no no I was a social psychology major with a lot of focus on African American studies and theater.

[01:42:16] She's amazing.

[01:42:19] I said did you return to the show so you could find more layers to Michonne and dig deeper she said we were never not going to tell her story when I left initially I was always contractually obligated to do this with Andy it was just a question of what would be the format.

[01:42:35] The idea of completing our love story which was Andy's brainchild was always the plan.

[01:42:40] So like like Rick with the CRM she's a prisoner of this show and couldn't get away contractually bound.

[01:42:48] They said when you first started playing this character 12 years ago you told me you could barely recognize yourself in Michonne has that changed.

[01:42:56] She said she's gone through this great journey where she's opened up and become more vulnerable and as time went on I found more and more myself in her.

[01:43:04] But she's always remained herself she's always doing things where I go oh I wish I had done that in my life by the time I was in the throes of this character it was like she's more than a woman to me.

[01:43:16] More than a woman to me.

[01:43:19] CBR dot com comic book resources is talked with tonight they said this is a good one I love this interview yeah you sent me this and I it was long so I didn't include everything but I picked out the ones I thought were interesting.

[01:43:33] But if you if I miss something let me know that you really wanted to be in here they said from the first draft what were the plot points or details in the script that you knew you wanted to hit.

[01:43:44] And she said the Rick issue was a big thing I had to figure out what truly explains what's been going on with him.

[01:43:51] You can totally go into oh it's because the CRM is gonna kill yeah yeah yeah but this is a man who grapples with whatever enemy has to.

[01:43:58] What is really going on here that will be truly gratifying to us emotionally after seeing how he's been trying to push her away and how he shifted that was a big thing I had to figure out.

[01:44:08] They said in doing so Rick brings up his son Carl which turns into this incredibly moving performance by Andrew Lincoln can you talk about why you chose to reference Carl in this manner.

[01:44:18] She said it's very much at the core of what we call a very basic thing in writing the expected surprise.

[01:44:24] Of course there's something that is wounded and Rick that has really frightened him about this experience it's trauma.

[01:44:31] I had to research a lot of PTSD people who come back from war and what that journey is I mapped that out for Andy and Scott Gimple.

[01:44:39] That's what's at the core of what I'm trying to allow Rick to experience.

[01:44:42] That loss in trauma is what can cause behaviors that make no sense.

[01:44:47] What would be at that core for someone who loved Carl the way Rick loved Carl his boy his son Rick lost Carl and then to lose him again in his dreams because this place is taking so much from him it's like losing his humanity.

[01:45:01] It's losing himself of course that would be at the core of what's shifted Rick.

[01:45:06] It came from the idea that this man was going through trauma what would be the thing that would totally destabilize him it was losing Carl but also losing Michonne as well.

[01:45:14] He figured out how to just be dead and function and now she's bringing Rick back to life she's bringing him back to his connections history his joy and all the beautiful things about life.

[01:45:25] But what if he loses her again then he doesn't know how to go back to being dead it's a fear of the pain of the trauma once again.

[01:45:32] That journey was the underbelly of what was really going on you can talk all day about how the CRM is going to hurt Rick's loved ones but it's something deeper than that.

[01:45:40] That's what I found as I dug into it.

[01:45:43] It's true that we do a lot of things subconsciously to avoid repeating pain that we've had in the past.

[01:45:50] Oh, one had some people were yeah.

[01:45:52] They said before this episode I initially interpreted that the CRM psychologically conditioned Rick to believe he didn't deserve a good life.

[01:46:01] And she said yes that that was the central problem with the show in the storyline how do you explain Rick's behavior he's not programmed or is he he's not he's traumatized.

[01:46:11] How do you get the audience to see that initially we wanted that scene where Michonne finally leaves to make it seem like he's programmed but then in the moment of intimacy between them he opens up more and more he's fighting it but he's opening up because of his love for her.

[01:46:25] That's why the love making scene can't just be a love making scene had to be seen that involves a shift of character a shift of vulnerability.

[01:46:32] The trauma is manifesting in his body.

[01:46:35] That's where she gets to see something that's going on here that she didn't consider that changes her entire approach to how to help him heal.

[01:46:43] That's what the whole text of journey in their bed is she had to get him there but she wouldn't know how to if she hadn't seen that moment during their love making where he's just suddenly out of it in such a state of trauma and fear.

[01:46:56] That's interesting so you were talking about the CRM programming it was all about showing that it's not the CRM it's the fear and pain of losing these people again.

[01:47:05] The freak was going to be traumatized at the point of functioning like the CRM it would be because of the fear of losing his family.

[01:47:12] He loves his family that much. That's where the epic love story is able to really manifest itself.

[01:47:17] He's almost saying quote you can't just come back into my life and make me come alive again what if I lose you again then I don't know how to die again.

[01:47:24] It's very faulty thinking but it makes sense emotionally it makes sense in trauma that's a trauma does to you.

[01:47:30] That's really interesting. She's great. Yeah like it.

[01:47:36] Holly would reporter talked with denigrer and Andrew Lincoln this was a little shorter but it's not it's an article format so I'll just read the last few paragraphs which I thought were interesting.

[01:47:46] It says as the writer of the episode Greer felt she clearly understood Michele's arc but she wanted to make sure her co star and fellow executive producer Lincoln had enough meat to sink his teeth into as well.

[01:47:58] Quote you want to give an actor like him everything you can she says Andy such a fantastic actor who throws everything into it I was keen to give him that workout. That's so cool. Yeah, I could feel that I love that.

[01:48:09] Andrew Lincoln added quote it was thrilling to do all of this with friends but deny had one heck of a role as well as show running the fourth episode as an added responsibility.

[01:48:21] I thought the work she did on that was an astonishing testament to her skills especially because apparently she only needs two hours a day to sleep.

[01:48:28] End quote two hours in use and is an exaggeration of course though not by much quote there were times where it was pretty tight admits career there were tone meetings late at night.

[01:48:39] I had an early call the next day things like that on top of that I was shooting the other episodes but it was all very gratifying I was very thankful to Scott Gimple who handed the reins over to me.

[01:48:50] End quote by the end of the episode Rick and Michonne are hand in hand driving off together with a clear destination in mind home.

[01:48:57] Are they hand in hand? No, they can't be maybe hand in fake hands. Yeah.

[01:49:03] It's as happy as an ending as one could possibly hope for for these two crazy kids. If not for one major problem there still two whole episodes left.

[01:49:13] It does feel complete at that point doesn't it muses Lincoln of course is always is the case with the walking dead something happens to mess everything up end quote.

[01:49:24] It's spoilers. You know anything you're dick.

[01:49:30] You're dick. Perfect.

[01:49:39] All right that is our show episode 572 thanks as always for listening everyone for writing in and calling in also my usual next episode will have the walking dead the ones who live season one episode five.

[01:49:52] Become and we will be out. We're shooting to record I think Monday and hopefully be out by Tuesday morning with that that's where we're in for since we don't have screeners for the last two episodes.

[01:50:03] If you want to write in relief as a voice message about it you can find all our content information at podcast to go dot com.

[01:50:13] Lucy has dick. That's okay. I'm going to be with it.

[01:50:18] And because we're almost done and while you're there check out our podcast I was just on Buffy the still slaying podcast with Penny and Kara to talk about the movie Heather's from 1989 that I'd never seen until now.

[01:50:33] And I'm not sure when that's going to be out. I think it a few days but that was super super fun and so glad to finally watch that movie.

[01:50:40] I want to mention this episode is made possible by patreon supporters like Laura Dugan like Laura Dugan who puts their support at patreon.com slash Jason cabassy.

[01:50:50] Thank you to Laura. There's a perk I brought back recently a listener Patreon perk called listener chit chats where I get to know listener interview them a few days ago.

[01:51:01] I published one with Derek O'Neill who used to do you know comic talk with Lucy on this podcast and now has his own pop culture network TV podcast industry.

[01:51:11] So that was great. You can pledge at any level to hear that and all the listener chit chats that we've done before and you could even maybe featured in one at some point.

[01:51:19] Also as I mentioned earlier Lucy and I started this new series tangent time where we talk about topics submitted by you guys and we're about to do one on aliens.

[01:51:27] So. Alright that is our show. Thanks for listening. Don't give it a little bit.

[01:51:36] I want to eat a tomato in the bathroom.