575: "The Last Time" (TWD: The Ones Who Live S1E6)

[00:00:00] Ah!

[00:00:02] Ah!

[00:00:03] Oh.

[00:00:04] Ones Who Live, Podcastica!

[00:00:16] I knew it, Dad.

[00:00:18] I knew you were so out there.

[00:00:22] I just never wanted you to feel alone.

[00:00:31] I thought I was.

[00:00:35] And I realized...

[00:00:41] I was.

[00:00:44] You.

[00:00:49] You got him, Dad.

[00:00:52] You told me to.

[00:01:06] You're the brave man.

[00:01:14] I am.

[00:01:20] He is.

[00:01:29] But maybe you can call me, Dad.

[00:01:34] I knew you'd come back.

[00:01:38] How?

[00:01:40] I believed.

[00:02:11] Welcome to The Cast of Us.

[00:02:16] A Podcast dedicated to the Shuffle Show.

[00:02:20] The Walking Dead.

[00:02:25] He's a headwrecking in the podcast I'm Jason.

[00:02:28] And I'm Lucy.

[00:02:29] And this is The Cast of Us Episode 5, 75.

[00:02:33] I'm Jason.

[00:02:35] And I'm Lucy.

[00:02:37] And this is The Cast of Us Episode 5, 75.

[00:02:40] And this is the shit we do.

[00:02:42] It is.

[00:02:44] And this episode, the shit we're doing,

[00:02:47] we're covering The Walking Dead,

[00:02:50] The Ones Who Live, Episode 6, the last time.

[00:02:54] It does feel like the last time.

[00:02:56] This is our last episode by the way everybody.

[00:02:58] Yeah, we're done.

[00:03:00] It really felt like an ending.

[00:03:02] I wanted to mention before we get started that if you guys listening just found out

[00:03:05] that this listening just found us recently for this show

[00:03:09] or you haven't been around in a while

[00:03:11] because you weren't watching the sped-offs

[00:03:13] and you came back for Rick.

[00:03:15] We're so glad you came back and listened.

[00:03:17] And if you had a good time, we hope you check out some of the other stuff

[00:03:20] we've been doing recently.

[00:03:22] If you look back on your feet,

[00:03:24] you'll see we started A Walking Dead rewatch with Full Spoiler.

[00:03:27] So it's like a retrospective looking back

[00:03:30] from the perspective of having seen the whole series.

[00:03:32] It's been really, really fun.

[00:03:34] It's so fun.

[00:03:36] And we made it up to where Sophia came out of the barn

[00:03:40] and then we paused for The Ones Who Live.

[00:03:42] So we're going to be continuing.

[00:03:44] I think either later this month or early May,

[00:03:48] depending on our schedules.

[00:03:50] Yeah, but soon.

[00:03:52] And we also on this podcast covered the other sped-offs,

[00:03:56] The Walking Dead Dead City with Negan and Maggie

[00:03:58] and also Walking Dead Darryl Dixon,

[00:04:00] which is Darryl on France.

[00:04:02] And I doubt on full site.

[00:04:04] Lucy and I decided to bow out of Dead City.

[00:04:10] I think you for the same reason

[00:04:12] in me basically.

[00:04:13] I didn't want to subject everyone to my constant complaints about Negan.

[00:04:16] I just thought that would be fun for people.

[00:04:19] I know you did do one episode right?

[00:04:21] I did an amazing job.

[00:04:24] He was exactly the right person to lead on that show.

[00:04:27] Yeah, so yeah, I think we did there.

[00:04:29] I think we were both at that point as well.

[00:04:31] We were quite burnt out from.

[00:04:33] I think we just done the last of us as well.

[00:04:35] And I was just like, I'm not in the right head space

[00:04:37] to talk about Negan.

[00:04:39] And watching the series, I thought that was the right decision

[00:04:42] because Ben's more than a leading fan.

[00:04:44] And you know, I am a fan of some stuff

[00:04:46] but as you guys know, not everything.

[00:04:48] So anyway, we wanted to have it on the podcast.

[00:04:51] I'm thankful that Ben came in and covered for us

[00:04:54] and he had a rotating guest host and that was great.

[00:04:57] And then Lucy and I came back and did the Darryl show

[00:05:00] which we liked a lot.

[00:05:02] We thought it was surprisingly great.

[00:05:04] Yeah, which we both were like, cover it.

[00:05:06] And then we're like, oh, this is fun.

[00:05:08] Oh, yeah, god, yeah.

[00:05:10] It was good.

[00:05:11] Yeah, it's like Darryl and France, what the hell?

[00:05:13] But if you, I know some listeners are like,

[00:05:15] I like Darryl but not enough to actually watch the series.

[00:05:17] Give it a shot or watch the first episode.

[00:05:18] I think you would know after that one

[00:05:20] whether you want to continue on.

[00:05:21] It'll also make you feel like RT.

[00:05:23] You're like, oh, well, you know, it's zombies

[00:05:25] but it is in Paris so it's like dead RT.

[00:05:27] Yes, it's got a lot of Rita CNS in it.

[00:05:30] Yeah.

[00:05:31] He can tell you had a lot of input because he's an artist.

[00:05:33] But I would put it solidly third in my rankings

[00:05:37] of the, I think seven walking dead spin-offs

[00:05:39] right after the main show and the ones who live.

[00:05:42] Main show ones who lived there.

[00:05:44] Yeah, yeah.

[00:05:45] I want to do want to be much more beyond having watched this.

[00:05:50] Like, I know, I know.

[00:05:51] I know, I know.

[00:05:52] I still up there for me.

[00:05:53] I like to a lot.

[00:05:54] Me too.

[00:05:55] Yeah.

[00:05:56] But I like tales too, probably more than most people.

[00:05:57] Yeah, tales was fun.

[00:05:58] There was one episode of tales that like everyone fucking hated

[00:06:00] and we were like, this is great.

[00:06:01] This was so good.

[00:06:02] It was like the French, Amish one.

[00:06:04] We were like, this is hilarious.

[00:06:05] No friends like, no it's terrible.

[00:06:06] But I just, I think there's another spin off.

[00:06:09] I can't remember what it was.

[00:06:11] No, I mean either.

[00:06:12] But anyway, Darryl will be back this summer.

[00:06:16] They say, so that'll be we'll interrupt the rewatch once again for that.

[00:06:19] So just wanted to give you guys a rundown of what we've been covering

[00:06:22] if you have been enjoying it maybe I'll stick around and

[00:06:25] or some of that stuff.

[00:06:26] Yeah.

[00:06:27] But that said let's get into the walking to the ones who live.

[00:06:30] I call it episodes six.

[00:06:32] I didn't put season because I feel like this might be it.

[00:06:36] I'm just going to say it.

[00:06:38] I don't want another season.

[00:06:39] Yeah.

[00:06:40] If it comes, I'll cover it by the wind.

[00:06:42] Yeah.

[00:06:43] Oh, we don't.

[00:06:44] So we've been saving the news for the listener feedback episode.

[00:06:48] And we'll do that again this time.

[00:06:50] But I read, you know, interviews about whether there's a season two and

[00:06:54] it the just I get is that Gimpo really wants to do it.

[00:06:58] And I feel like probably the hold up is Andrew Lincoln and deny

[00:07:02] Guerrero who both said if there's a great story then you never know.

[00:07:06] So I feel like to me this was such a great story.

[00:07:10] You wouldn't want to follow it up with something mediocre.

[00:07:13] I could live with I could live with like there's been

[00:07:17] mutated in the discourse like an Avengers style thing for all the spin

[00:07:22] I was come back together.

[00:07:24] I would love to have that it scratched but I do not want this to be broken up again.

[00:07:30] And that's my I didn't think I would say this but I really don't want to see.

[00:07:35] I just don't I just think this was it was just a nice beat to end on.

[00:07:39] Yeah, because you're right because it's about them getting back home.

[00:07:43] And so you want to see them with the other people not away again because of

[00:07:48] something bad that happened.

[00:07:50] I mean, do the wrong.

[00:07:51] I would watch a season of the ones who live that's just like domestic

[00:07:54] grimes family bliss like I watched the shit out of that but I don't think

[00:07:58] AMC would commission it and I think they'd want to fuck with this.

[00:08:00] There's a rat and then you need to get care all how did you know that other rat?

[00:08:04] Like do you just like a grumpy teenager or something?

[00:08:07] You know, yeah, cool.

[00:08:08] I like it.

[00:08:09] But if it was the ones who live starring Gabriel and Aaron which watched a season of that.

[00:08:14] If it be you know, do you mean like if it was sort of like what they've done with Darrell

[00:08:19] having it be the big of Carol and having it be like the ones who live this season featuring

[00:08:23] the two then.

[00:08:24] Yeah, I think so.

[00:08:25] I know Chris and Jason over at talking deadcaster really into that idea of Gabriel and Aaron because

[00:08:31] they had an outstanding to handle with the Terminator before season 11.

[00:08:36] Oh nice.

[00:08:37] What if it was the ones who live starring Chris and Jason of the movie dead?

[00:08:41] I would love that.

[00:08:42] I would watch the shit out of that and I tell you what, the ones who live Lance Horn's

[00:08:48] Bay.

[00:08:49] I mean, I sure am.

[00:08:50] He's dead.

[00:08:51] I would show around it.

[00:08:52] No, fuck off.

[00:08:53] No, like backstory.

[00:08:55] Whatever resurrection cool fashion show.

[00:08:58] I don't know.

[00:08:59] Yeah, I think I had a twin.

[00:09:01] I mean, the Lans.

[00:09:02] Yeah, the Lans.

[00:09:03] I mean, the Lans.

[00:09:04] The Lans.

[00:09:05] The Lans.

[00:09:06] The Lans.

[00:09:07] The Lans romance.

[00:09:08] What I've been thinking about since I watched this so I was so stressed out about this.

[00:09:12] I woke up at like six and the clock went forward.

[00:09:16] So I woke up at like 70 a.m. on Sunday we were like staying with Peter's parents and I was

[00:09:24] like I have to watch the fucking episode before I get back to the show.

[00:09:28] Yeah, I really good.

[00:09:29] I did because the headlines were so fucking spoiler on Monday.

[00:09:30] Yeah.

[00:09:31] Um, and I was so stressed.

[00:09:32] The internet.

[00:09:33] So I had a nightmare about it.

[00:09:34] A head of the nightmare about this fucking show that involved like purple flames or like I was so stressed

[00:09:38] out.

[00:09:39] So I went into it.

[00:09:40] Really up to up to a high dough about the whole thing.

[00:09:45] There are two zombies inside of me.

[00:09:47] There is a zombie that wants to be a zombie.

[00:09:49] I don't know what they're doing.

[00:09:50] I'm not going to be a zombie.

[00:09:51] I'm not going to be a zombie.

[00:09:52] I'm not going to be a zombie.

[00:09:53] I'm not going to be a zombie.

[00:09:54] There are two zombies inside of me.

[00:09:56] There is a zombie that wants to nitpick and there is a zombie that just without shame loved

[00:10:02] this episode and cried for like half an hour after watching it.

[00:10:06] And I you know they say that there's a zombie that lives as the one that you feed so I'm going

[00:10:10] to feed the emotional zombie who loved it.

[00:10:13] The brain.

[00:10:14] But there are some there were but there were bits where I'm like yeah fuck me that went

[00:10:17] quickly and like wow the actual one briefing was quite shit like I just had the

[00:10:22] real bits where I was like if you watched the world the odds if you hadn't it was probably

[00:10:25] on to just like yeah that was yeah okay but I read a really funny review that said

[00:10:32] and be honest says you know I've given the special on briefing two thousand two hundred seventy

[00:10:36] three times and they're like okay one that's a fuck ton of people to know like the top

[00:10:41] secret to if that's true he's given that briefing once a day for seven years.

[00:10:47] Really made me love.

[00:10:49] Yeah, we're going to get the tea get the sorrows and I just thought that really made me laugh

[00:10:57] and he has it on CD that he just gives to most people.

[00:11:00] It's like can it just be a PowerPoint?

[00:11:03] Like stick people like with an explosion like them dead us alive well done.

[00:11:10] It makes sense that he's given it or that that many people know it because everyone who's

[00:11:14] carrying out these orders I think knows it.

[00:11:17] So you need a whole I probably dies doing them maybe but I mean I think the whole group

[00:11:21] that was there in the fanlinks that because it kind of had to be that way that Michonne

[00:11:26] and Rick just killed a couple thousand people so they had to be kind of complicit in some

[00:11:32] way you know yeah they had to but overall honestly that ending I loved it I loved it

[00:11:40] it gave me everything I was hoping for and I couldn't believe it did I was so shocked

[00:11:44] that it actually did and that made me really happy.

[00:11:48] How about you how do you feel?

[00:11:49] I know we exchanged a text we were both just like I'm still crying but I watched it in

[00:11:54] my VR headset the first time and I was afraid I was going to damage it with my tears.

[00:11:59] Oh, seriously.

[00:12:01] Did you run up and give Rick a hug in VR?

[00:12:04] Really like I'm in the family too.

[00:12:09] And he's like what are you doing?

[00:12:11] No, I'm watching Bucketball.

[00:12:13] I loved it so much.

[00:12:16] You know there were definitely some department of suspension of disbelief on a big scale in

[00:12:23] it but I was so satisfied with it that it was almost joyous like that's so funny.

[00:12:31] It wasn't even like this is lame I don't this is taking me out.

[00:12:35] No it was okay good.

[00:12:36] I'm glad they just skated over that so he'd get to the ending that we got.

[00:12:40] Right I was like it's when it got like seven minutes to go and like everything had been resolved

[00:12:45] I was like oh my god we're going back we're going back and they just go to the same site.

[00:12:50] I was like oh I know I hurt see I haven't listened to watching dead the bald move guys in a while

[00:12:57] but somebody told me that they started off kind of liking it but they've just been

[00:13:03] raking this series over the coals right and that's that's what they tend to do with the walking

[00:13:08] dead and I love them for it and I know that some people who listen to watching dead this is back

[00:13:12] in the day they would just think we that well it was me and Karen at the time but like you guys are idiots

[00:13:18] like god you just love everything and you don't care and all this and I'm like hey we're two different

[00:13:25] flavors yeah like I'm here to appreciate and to you know enhance your experience of it not

[00:13:31] pick it apart but I mean I I those guys are really fun to listen to but anyway I think it's

[00:13:36] funny like feed the Zed that gives you a way of meaning and if that is joy then take it and this

[00:13:42] was just pure joy there's that is starkey and they give it lots of brains and that's that's fine

[00:13:49] whereas I want to feed my non-cinacled Zed who just sat on the bed crying you just got her family

[00:13:55] back from having her and then had to go for Easter lunch with my in-laws so like it's fine

[00:13:59] it's fine it's fine it did feel rushed I guess I mean it's fast paced for sure I did not expect

[00:14:11] them to find out what the serum was up to and put a stop to it all in one episode that really

[00:14:15] surprised me but on the other hand I think the whole series has been fast paced except for maybe

[00:14:21] episode four the one you know that deny career wrote and so it fit in with that it's been fast paced

[00:14:26] the whole way through you a couple of years went by in the very first episode then a year went by

[00:14:30] in the macho nat episode you're right it's been quick absolutely I think it would have been good to

[00:14:36] get more about the people in the civic group public who were actually impacted by this we didn't

[00:14:41] really see the impact of the CRM on them at any time and the aftermath was all handled in voice

[00:14:46] over it was very satisfying voice over but we didn't get to see anything I feel like the series

[00:14:50] could have been 10 episodes and that would have probably been best you know I would watch the ones

[00:14:55] who live Ben Shiro and Esteban take the city that would make me really happy they could have just

[00:15:01] yeah I included a little and did a few more episodes you know not another season but I think

[00:15:08] yeah if it was my first point was feeding the bad said I put my points that I am a bit like

[00:15:13] about one is that Jay just had time to make her room in art studio I was just like I wish I died

[00:15:19] on an artist I don't do oh Danny more than the door and I'm like uh it's like art school in here

[00:15:24] I was like what the fuck I did like though that she had that side of herself still that yeah and

[00:15:31] the pictures were cool like Gabriel with no general feel and there were some like anguished faces

[00:15:37] and I'm like her these the people she's killed like I'd like to go back and zoom in to see if I could

[00:15:41] spot other faces but it just made me laugh it's like it was a lot of facility and she's like I

[00:15:47] took all my art with me I'm like that's right huh it's not even her main place yeah she really fun she's

[00:15:53] like oh I'm just going to visit and she's like I live here now and I'm like you did a lot of art

[00:15:56] and like what two days like she brought it but I love that the Darcia was up the cat's butt that

[00:16:03] was awesome and that is a callback which I love because Rick wrought hat that looked exactly

[00:16:11] late back from the junkyard from Micheal and to make up for the cat statue she lost at the present

[00:16:17] so jesus if she knew was very petty about that which I thought was quite funny that I didn't

[00:16:22] realize that so jesus had made the one in the junkyard too probably a started it yeah yeah I

[00:16:29] loved I listened to the listener feedback episode I was really um delighted with it and

[00:16:34] Veronica made a really good point that jesus if she had just died randomly on duty everyone would

[00:16:40] define out about Alexandria so I was thinking about that when I was doing my rewatch it was like yeah

[00:16:46] pretty cool yeah yeah yeah really wasn't it yeah yeah I'd been thinking about like it's

[00:16:50] important that jesus stay alive on my on my bad said list I also have there was a bit of gimpil

[00:16:58] speaking this particularly with Rick and Beale that I was a bit like okay like I did it was just

[00:17:04] like we could do this with the bit less gimpil speak but find whatever it happened it has not

[00:17:09] been an overly gimpil easy season so it passes I think it's been gimpil in the best way because

[00:17:15] I always want to stand up for him and I think he's got a lot of strengths and they were all on

[00:17:19] display in this and and you made a great team with deny career in particular I think having

[00:17:24] Lincoln as well two of them to read him and was good I think they balanced it rather than reading

[00:17:29] it's always the case yeah yeah you need I mean look at the Beatles you know they were better together

[00:17:35] um how quickly all resolved I'm just going to find funny because it was just funny that everything

[00:17:42] was resolved in one episode I'm just like that's inherently hilarious like they've built up this big

[00:17:47] bad over years and like characters from other like isabel from fear it's like well they she escaped

[00:17:54] them but the whole world and yeah well this is the thing that Rick Grimes came it's over right this

[00:18:02] is the thing that that I spoke of it with Jenny Ryan about this like the world beyond was kind

[00:18:07] of pointless it's like what I mean yeah I'm not going to say too much if you don't see world beyond but

[00:18:13] I'm a bit like oh it was intended to come after the first Rick Grimes movie that never was made

[00:18:22] and so I don't know if seeing it in that light makes it makes more sense but I guess we would

[00:18:28] have to know what that I also read that the first movie wasn't even going to have Michonne in it

[00:18:33] except maybe at the end so it was different I hope the world beyond career or dude okay I assume

[00:18:40] I wonder if we would get a Kublai cameo with the hijins all being there but I'm gonna I mean the

[00:18:47] main reason why I hadn't been spoiling world me on points was because I didn't want to give away

[00:18:53] what did end up being a plot twist in this season yeah which is that the CRM were the ones that

[00:18:59] killed Omaha that was the echelon briefing yeah I mean people probably suspected but I just didn't

[00:19:03] want to lay it out there but now that it's over I don't mind saying some points from well beyond one

[00:19:08] of which is that at the end some of the characters were on their way to Portland to warn them because

[00:19:13] we knew that the CRM was going for Portland next and now we don't know what happened to those characters

[00:19:18] Elton Asha and Iris I think yeah and I guess they're fine but did they ever make it there where

[00:19:26] they just like coming up to I kind of want to know I would watch a little spin off episode about this

[00:19:32] yeah webisode come on speaking of the echelon briefing I just feel like it was big double

[00:19:38] lot and it just wasn't that great like it was fine and I loved you know what Terry Oakwynn brought

[00:19:44] I liked the seed and well enough but I just felt like the briefing itself was a bit like

[00:19:50] I don't agree I think really I mean hey we don't have to agree as always but I just think because

[00:19:57] we watched world beyond it had way less impact but if you learned from this that the CRM is going

[00:20:04] to kill everyone else in the world that's basically what it was that's a big deal I'm interested

[00:20:11] to see what listener feedback says about this because sure people have people who didn't yeah yeah

[00:20:14] no but I just I just felt a bit like I think I don't remember if it was Veronica or Dodie that said

[00:20:20] the biggest twist would be if there was something in the briefing that made us think oh shit

[00:20:26] there's a point there yeah but I don't think the closest I came was when Beale said to Rick I can

[00:20:31] protect the people you love yeah bring them here and I thought oh that could but that wasn't really

[00:20:36] the reason that that wasn't the briefing but no I mean I think I think it's pretty compelling

[00:20:43] especially given that I mean we learned in the echelon briefing but also in world beyond that the

[00:20:48] CRM has these modelers that they're like statisticians or something that predict what's going to

[00:20:54] happen based on whatever factors and they've said that humanity has 14 years to live and so this

[00:21:01] is our motivation to try to beat the odds and the way that we're going to do that is to kill

[00:21:06] everyone else because they could be a threat and we're just gonna keep this community of compliant

[00:21:11] people that we've specifically gathered together all bees and then we're gonna be the military

[00:21:16] that protects them and kills everyone else I mean to me that's that's pretty pretty good

[00:21:22] yeah I don't know I find it underwhelming if I had been one of the like the two thousand

[00:21:28] two hundred and seventy-fourth person to get it I think my reaction might have been a bit less than

[00:21:34] less than well I don't know yeah I was just like it's not it like I feel like if you're that far

[00:21:42] into the organization and you don't have a suspicion that that's the kind of thing they're doing

[00:21:47] then I don't know which leads me to Rick had Michonne should have died a bunch in this episode

[00:21:54] like they should have died at least three different points of this episode and going in I was so sure

[00:21:59] one of them was gonna die that I was absolutely like in knots about it the blanket and water thing

[00:22:06] was tenuous Rick exploding the zeds with a fucking hand grenade two feet away from him and not getting

[00:22:12] bit was also tenuous but I don't fucking care because I'm so happy that they both lived

[00:22:19] but if we were gonna pick holes in it you could say there was like a million points oh yeah

[00:22:23] I'm probably should have died and it's never so

[00:22:26] Randy made a good point in the chat well maybe it's a good point that in most movies you see people

[00:22:33] dive on grenades and then they're able to save anyone else from getting hurt just one body in

[00:22:38] the way and here Rick had I think three zombies in the way so maybe you could say true true I was

[00:22:45] also very worried that Rick was gonna reveal he'd been bitten when they go on top of the

[00:22:51] and create thingy container yeah I was so worried throughout the whole episode

[00:22:58] ever I have never been so stressed in my fucking life as I was watching this which was one of

[00:23:05] the reasons why it was such a great episode because throughout the walking dead we were never

[00:23:11] worried about Rick's survival until his final episode because it was broadcast that Andrew

[00:23:16] Lincoln was leaving but aside from that we just weren't and now we were so worried and I could

[00:23:21] feel it just chatting with people online and it was a collective walking dead family anxiety

[00:23:28] and then to have us throughout the whole episode they just ramped that up you know in the whole

[00:23:35] echelon briefing it's very tense and he keeps grabbing in his knife and you're wondering what's

[00:23:40] gonna happen and then he fucking grabs his knife and kills him which I totally didn't expect and then

[00:23:45] they fight and I'm like oh shit shush and then I mean even in the first place like that they're

[00:23:49] going to go in there and try to get this dossier and echelon briefing it's dangerous they're

[00:23:55] going into the belly of the beast so staying high risk then it ramps up of course as we knew it would

[00:24:00] and the they find out that they're gonna attack Portland so they decide to put a stop to it

[00:24:06] and just every little moment the fact that they had these flashbacks that made me feel like oh

[00:24:13] I was like all we're dead this is your life we're all dead yeah this is showing this yeah we're all dead

[00:24:19] when Rick wanted to go like why don't we just go home and Michaud wanted to stay I was like

[00:24:24] and just the fact that they were having this conversation made it feel like oh they might regret

[00:24:29] this or something right so they knew that we were thinking it and they kept seeding us and then

[00:24:34] they even like had all these moments that you just mentioned that were ridiculous like it looked

[00:24:38] like Rick blew up and then he's fine and then even they had to add the thing about them getting up

[00:24:42] on the shipping container so all of that anxiety just built and built and built and then to have

[00:24:48] this payoff where oh nope they actually did make it it made it so much sweeter than it would have

[00:24:53] already been great but it was even better because of all that I feel like everything you've ever

[00:24:59] wanted for these characters is gonna happen I was like oh and I did the other two things on my list

[00:25:06] of bad said were thorns change of heart like I know I know I'm like what the hell changed your mind

[00:25:14] I really hope that in my last moments on earth I don't like go back when everything I believe for

[00:25:19] my whole life like it is right it is and then gone get and rather just going out being like yeah

[00:25:25] most of my beliefs were pretty much held up by what I experienced you know yeah when you right

[00:25:30] after you before you die you'll be like it's true men should run the world

[00:25:35] yeah I'm like oh my god feminist almost a joke like I should have just done this I'd

[00:25:42] said no I mean I guess it was because Michonne said love doesn't die right before she killed it

[00:25:49] I don't know and then she goes watch an Iroh lol vibe it should have point I was like no

[00:25:57] but everything and I think the last one that really did make me laugh by a kind of love towards

[00:26:02] everything that happened off screen with the briefing of like Footland of Force and Command

[00:26:06] and all casualties of incident shocking revelations emergency overslept infantry units immediate

[00:26:10] reform overturning guidance free movement city will welcome citizens error survives our community

[00:26:14] and I'm like so that will happen in what 45 seconds I'm like great guess we're not watching any of that

[00:26:21] yeah I mean there's a part in me that's like like uh maybe I mean that would have just drawn

[00:26:27] things out and I don't know I mean government reform is inherently quite boring you like yeah

[00:26:32] I'm with you on that I mean I wouldn't yeah I'd like to just see just some signs of real world

[00:26:38] impact of it but I actually liked the voiceover do you think of this is the thing I liked it

[00:26:44] and also find it frustrating at the same time but mainly loved it that is when I put that

[00:26:49] when I feed the little analytical said it goes right to convenient right and I'm like no no

[00:26:54] it was great it was great because it's so more of Judith it felt like the end of a lot of movies

[00:27:00] yeah yeah and I think that that's the end of my bad Z list that was my first point was just the net picks

[00:27:05] okay I'll tell you my bad Z list list which is a lot the same and then and then I'll do another point

[00:27:11] that's all right so um again huge department of suspension of disbelief but the episode was so

[00:27:17] satisfying in all other ways that I didn't really care I I almost felt joyful about these but um

[00:27:23] that Biel happens to spend alone time before each battle completely unguarded never interrupts

[00:27:28] that time except this one exception and he'll take this guy who's the first A he's ever given the

[00:27:34] Eschelon briefing too and he's not been quite sure where he's coming from it has tried to escape

[00:27:38] four times but all and who's obviously like quite unhinged like let's face it like quite unhinged

[00:27:45] like that seems like a good idea oh damn you ochafor why did I find you and buy some that one

[00:27:51] that line I left I like it damn you ochafor I was like great great ten of you I should know listen to you

[00:27:58] all died oh ochafor smiles down from heaven like I mean I genuinely feel like that was the best

[00:28:06] writing of the whole episode for that line so good uh it's so good uh michonne stumbles into

[00:28:15] this briefing about what's happening in Portland I guess cascadia bases mostly people is everyone

[00:28:22] who's had the Eschelon briefing but still it's kind of like a squid game if you've seen that or even

[00:28:27] Star Wars in the Death Star where all the bad guys are wearing masks you know it's a stormtrooper

[00:28:32] so it's easy to infiltrate and go unnoticed it was like that also who stitched her uniform like I

[00:28:39] noticed this in the um the kind of bits we see of them having actually planned stuff I'm like so

[00:28:45] they stitched the uniform together that's really funny because there's like a little sewing kit out

[00:28:49] and I'm like well I'm assuming michonne did that because I don't think Rick could do it with one hand

[00:28:53] but anyway that really made me laugh oh what do you mean stitched it like they stitched the red bits on

[00:28:59] so it must have been a like a regular Startrooper uniform there and then they had to stitch the red

[00:29:04] pack on to make it look like she was meant to be the back yeah it's one of those things for

[00:29:09] like they obviously they showed they look like really seeded like sexy but they don't show the

[00:29:13] like presumably hours of sewing like anyway it made me laugh um this is more of a general and if the

[00:29:19] CRM plan to kill all the people all the communities they came across why did they design their logo

[00:29:25] around the concept of three communities I'm already set maybe it was pliable deno I mean plausible

[00:29:29] deniability I think they just had one really good designer who was like you just I don't think

[00:29:35] you should do this I don't think you should you know kill and they're like no don't care then he

[00:29:39] got killed and now there's stuff all the logos yeah oh well I'll figure some other thing that

[00:29:44] that represents um I think it was lucky no one was guarding this huge cache of chlorine gas

[00:29:50] canisters so Rick and Michonne could just go in and rig it and also the the troops were all gathered

[00:29:56] in one place oh chill like that's how I keep my guest canisters I'm just like yeah it's unguarded

[00:30:02] like whatever and while we're talking about the guest canisters I'm pretty sure we saw those in

[00:30:06] world beyond getting ready to be shipped out to Portland like that didn't they but this didn't

[00:30:13] they thwart it oh well there must have been other ones oh man oh man um that uh I this is just

[00:30:24] small one but how come Rick left his prosthesis why didn't he I think he was like uh don't need

[00:30:31] anything you gave me anymore and I'm like you both just go to the blade of it it's beautiful yeah

[00:30:37] yeah that was that was same weird um that when Thorne confronted Rick and Michonne and she goes

[00:30:45] you go back and undo what you did I mean follow them find out what they did

[00:30:51] that's kind of silly like I'm phoning it and I don't want to find out you just fix it

[00:30:56] I don't want to deal with you anymore there's an explosion you know that lets out all the chlorine

[00:31:04] gas and then cut to commercial and all of a sudden all the soldiers are zombie shampooing around

[00:31:10] except for Thorne yeah except for her and her and her and her because they were under tarp

[00:31:16] if only they'd know and I mean it made a little little tiny bit more sense with Rick and Michonne

[00:31:22] but not much but Thorne why did she survive being out in the open because she quickly put her mask

[00:31:27] on but no one else did why didn't anyone yes okay Rick's like she's got a mask I'm like

[00:31:33] that was the most ridiculous thing in the whole episode really um and then yeah hurt sudden

[00:31:39] change of heart and then Judith and RJ meet them in a field with no supervision I guess Judith

[00:31:47] can handle but who why not go to Alexandria what who brought them to this field of course it's because

[00:31:52] in Alexandria which is actually annoyed you know they there's they now regularly the inhabitants

[00:32:00] of sinoids a real town they sit out on their porches with shotguns in case any camera crew show up

[00:32:05] never again I've heard they're real porch dicks and sinoid yeah I was up at like you could have

[00:32:15] had like a sneaky easy keel or cattle there like oh my name less than the emotional impact but it

[00:32:20] just felt weird like a field and two little kids running out of the forest fine oh so those are mine

[00:32:29] but can I do another fresh point absolutely okay it's some the others feeding the others at in my head

[00:32:37] the the main overarching theme of the walking dead or at least one of the main ones I felt like this

[00:32:44] series felt like an end to the walking dead in a way that the walking dead finale itself didn't

[00:32:51] in some way because it's Rick um and me feel sad because when series that I love end I feel like I

[00:33:00] broke up with somebody and I didn't quite have that feeling with the walking dead and I think it

[00:33:03] was in part because I knew that there was more coming with Rick and now we may never see him again

[00:33:09] you know it's sad I know what you mean I really do I felt it was a good ending though so that's

[00:33:14] I want that I'd rather have that than this was this is what I wanted at the end yeah of the main

[00:33:21] show was this scene but I actually really liked what we got at the end of the main show with

[00:33:25] the barrel and I thought they did it really well and I can understand why Andrew Lincoln was like

[00:33:30] we can't have me come back in at the end and kind of yeah no one bad they didn't they should have

[00:33:35] just left him out completely but yeah but I this yeah I had the same kind of completion feeling

[00:33:44] of like oh this is really it now because they're home and that's that's that and we both never

[00:33:49] maybe see that again and I think it's also because there's part of me that wants it to be that way

[00:33:54] because I don't want this to get fucked up for them like I want that to be their happiness right

[00:34:00] it's somewhat I mean there's a part of me as a podcaster like oh I hope other people don't feel

[00:34:05] that way and decide they're done with the walking dead because we still have Darryl and Negan left

[00:34:10] but there's part of me that also wishes we didn't have that because I want a good ending and this was one

[00:34:17] you know maybe Darryl will end with him coming back and getting his reunion with Rick and then

[00:34:23] yeah I really hope so because they deserve a reunion they because yeah absolutely they really do

[00:34:31] and them even though one listener thinks that that's a slight to me shown but I

[00:34:39] it is well it is like you can love different people for a different reason

[00:34:43] I want to be reunited it doesn't take anything away from the show at all it's not a slight but

[00:34:48] anyway so um but but another way that it feels like an ending is thematically because one of

[00:34:55] the main themes of the walking dead has always been how far we're to go to protect the people you

[00:34:59] care about and can you come back from those dark things and I think this series focuses on quote

[00:35:04] dark things meaning being calloused over to the point where you don't care about anyone

[00:35:10] or it doesn't have to be about calloused but giving up on people like the whole thing with

[00:35:15] Michonne and Thorn like you've given up and I haven't and coming back from that means having

[00:35:21] empathy and compassion again and as Cornies it is love I think it's no coincidence that

[00:35:26] this series kind of sounds like the ones who love and it brings Rick back full circle he started

[00:35:32] off as a loving man then he became more like the CRM where he would he would kill in a sense to

[00:35:38] protect the ones he cared about and then he came back around to loving there was a net voice over

[00:35:44] in the beginning where he said yeah a little hi to you go for it he said I know how to build things

[00:35:51] and I know how to burn things but it takes more than that at the end of the world and that's sort

[00:35:56] of a slight against the CRM and Thorn says in a dead world love is dead Michonne says love doesn't

[00:36:03] die then kill Storn but but Bill said we are the dead ones you know we're kind of like them the zombies

[00:36:13] which I feel like ties in with the name of the series The Walking Dead it's not just the zombies it's

[00:36:18] the people who've given up on love and Bill says the sword that kills is the sword that gives life

[00:36:26] but that's choosing who you want to say but then killing everyone else whether they're an overt

[00:36:31] threat or not it's devaluing the lives of people that you don't personally know and denying the

[00:36:38] potential for a lot of thinking and being and there's a flashback when he said that to a lot of

[00:36:45] the dark things that Rick did killing Thomas the prisoner with his machete to the top of the head

[00:36:52] biting Joe's throat out in my opinion it would have been more apt to show Rick being aggressive

[00:36:57] towards innocents like the Grady hospital people he wanted to go in and kill them but he didn't

[00:37:04] so they can't really show that he shot at one kingdom guy he didn't even know who he was

[00:37:09] orange backpack yes or even it's debatable but killing the saviors in their sleep without

[00:37:17] knowing if some of them were coerced to do what because they were yeah it's too complicated to

[00:37:24] explain all that in a flashback but that those are the things that I felt were more like he's really

[00:37:28] lost himself and when he said in this episode to be ill I never lost my son I lost myself he brought

[00:37:36] me back my wife brought me back I think it was during the rewatch that we talked about Carl's final

[00:37:44] letter to Rick but I think it's worth looking again so if you don't remember Carl is bitten and he

[00:37:50] wrote letters to people before he died and for Rick he wrote I wanted to kill Negan I wish I did

[00:37:58] maybe it would have been done I don't think it's done now you went out there again but I don't

[00:38:03] think they surrender he's talking about the war with the saviors I don't think they will surrender

[00:38:09] there are workers in their dad meaning saviors they're just regular people old people young people

[00:38:14] families you don't want them to die dad we're so close to starting everything over and we have friends

[00:38:20] it's that bigger world used to talk about the kingdom the hilltop there's got to be more places more

[00:38:25] people out there a chance for everything to change and keep changing everyone giving everyone the

[00:38:30] opportunity to have a life a real life you have to find peace with Negan he have to find a way

[00:38:35] forward somehow we don't have to forget what happened but you can make it so it doesn't happen

[00:38:40] again and nobody has to live this way that every life is worth something start everything over show

[00:38:45] everyone they can be safe again without killing that it can feel safe again but go back to being

[00:38:51] birthday schools jobs and even Friday night pizza somehow and walks with a dad and a three-year-old

[00:39:00] holding hands make that come back dad and go on those walks with Judith she'll remember them I

[00:39:05] love you Carl so I just think that I mean this whole series the Walking Dead I've preached that

[00:39:12] it's important to have compassion and mercy and vulnerability in a smart way but not to just

[00:39:18] become a ruthless cold untrusting badass killer and I feel like this episode is validating that viewpoint

[00:39:25] and even tying it into the whole theme of the Walking Dead if you don't do this you are the Walking

[00:39:28] Dead if you forget about love then you're the Walking Dead and that's what Beale is preaching

[00:39:34] killing innocence to protect your own life but Rick still cares about people he doesn't yet know

[00:39:38] about strangers and I think that's one of his biggest strengths and when he lost that which he did

[00:39:44] he was still my favorite character on the show but only in the way that I like flawed characters

[00:39:50] like I didn't approve of it and I wouldn't have wanted to like be his friend if I was in that world

[00:39:54] but now he's come back from that and I admire him as a person again as well as a character you know

[00:40:01] so that's why I feel like it's kind of full circle and really ties a lot of things into the series

[00:40:06] together yeah yeah I am I had a point I like I kind of want to talk about the ending even though

[00:40:15] it's the best bit of the episode and I was like talk about it I do it yeah I don't it doesn't matter

[00:40:20] it destroyed me yeah like seeing Rick's hands shaking and then when we saw just a little bit of

[00:40:27] Judas I'm like they're not gonna crap out and not show us actual Judas I think and then

[00:40:33] that depends Kaley Fleming Fleming $10 million I read to do this worth it

[00:40:38] hear more I just give it um she's so great I love her so much and she just knocked out the part um

[00:40:50] I just loved the whole scene I've written the best scene ever happens despite our Jbeying

[00:40:57] there which is probably not fair with that pretty little kid um they did they used him well there

[00:41:04] was a lot of stillness and silence yeah but it was good I but you would be shy he would be

[00:41:12] yeah I was thinking about the dynamics of that you just feel like they handled it so well I thought

[00:41:17] they did it so well and like even the way like there's something so natural about the way

[00:41:21] Michele was talking to the kids like you got big and I'm sorry and stuff like that and the fact

[00:41:26] that they were both uh just the way Rick and Michele both run towards them so desperately

[00:41:32] and urgently but then Rick's hanging back and he doesn't know what to do and he's like fiddling

[00:41:36] with his buttons and the music is so good the kids looking growing up makes sense was the time

[00:41:42] difference like the time that's past yeah and Kaley Fleming does look like Laurie I think you can

[00:41:50] really buy that she is Laurie's daughter just the way that and I just thought like what Rick must

[00:41:55] feel in that moment looking at Judith and yeah everything like wow you were a baby last time I saw

[00:42:01] you and like in the rewatch Judith is what eight weeks in utero or something so it's really strange

[00:42:09] to think about all this time having passed since that and the things that happened with Laurie's

[00:42:14] pregnancy and with Judith and Laurie dying and things like that I just I cried so much just seeing

[00:42:20] Judith looks so happy running towards her parents killed me I know I come off as like

[00:42:25] mean sometimes and like not emotionally in tune with stuff about families and things but like oh my

[00:42:32] god I was gone I cried for like half a minute I've watched the last seven minutes six times and

[00:42:39] I will keep watching them I might not watch the rest of the episode again but I will watch those

[00:42:43] last six minutes because it was so good it's like mind masturbation of like this is great this is so

[00:42:49] good give don't say that don't put that in because it's about kids and it's going to sound like I

[00:42:53] have bad feelings about children that's not true but it is scratching in the itch no I'm getting

[00:42:58] that you have great feelings about children yeah and very touch yes it's everything I've wanted since

[00:43:09] Rick left the show and I loved it and anyone who didn't get joy from it can all we

[00:43:16] must have heart of stone I could have I could have again bad said that I'm feeding I could have lived

[00:43:26] without that I believed line I thought maybe you can call me dad would do been a nice place to leave

[00:43:30] it but you know must have been a call back because Scott Kimble always calls back but this whole show

[00:43:35] has been about like belief and choosing to believe rather than choosing to not believe and then

[00:43:43] something a little kid might say it was so cute it was so cute unless our Jane is a little hat oh yeah

[00:43:50] see I mean I thought B by B it was done so well like you said his rick's hand was shaking in the

[00:43:56] helicopter and Michonne holds it when they're looking at the drawing of Carl and then Michonne hugs

[00:44:04] both the kids and that made so much sense because she's their mom and they know her they feel connected

[00:44:11] with her especially RJ because he's never even met Rick but Judith did know him when she was

[00:44:18] toddler I don't know maybe she was like up to like seven or eight I forget no she would have been

[00:44:25] three or four yeah okay that sounds right yeah and still you'd remember and you'd have some

[00:44:31] feelings there it would be very and she did clearly and so then they connected after the two kids

[00:44:38] had a chance to just love on their mom for a minute then to have Judith and Rick Connect was beautiful

[00:44:46] and then RJ and Rick face each other uh I can't even talk about this

[00:44:50] and he says he's hearing the same man and he goes I am which I'm glad he said that instead

[00:44:56] of him and howling about it and then he tweaked RJ's hat which just like you used to do with Carl

[00:45:02] yeah just Sun and Carl and which is kind of sad it reminds you he's not there but also

[00:45:07] So RJ smiled at it.

[00:45:09] You know, it was like a fatherly thing to do.

[00:45:12] And he said, but maybe you can call me dad and he said, I need come back.

[00:45:15] How?

[00:45:16] I believe.

[00:45:17] And then they hug and I lost it.

[00:45:18] Then they all hugged.

[00:45:19] And that of course reminds us of Rick and Laurie and Carl early on when he first found

[00:45:23] them.

[00:45:24] So it's happy and sad at the same time, which is very walkie-dead, but mostly happy.

[00:45:31] I just kept saying old day.

[00:45:32] I was like peer-to-peer.

[00:45:33] And he's like, what?

[00:45:34] I'm like, do you just got her family back?

[00:45:36] He's just like, why are you?

[00:45:37] And I'm just like, it's just really great.

[00:45:39] It's just really great.

[00:45:40] That's awesome.

[00:45:41] Oh, I was just like, guess what?

[00:45:43] And he's like, what?

[00:45:44] I'll let you just go our family back.

[00:45:45] He's like, good Lord.

[00:45:46] Like, we're still talking about it.

[00:45:48] He watched it with you, right?

[00:45:49] He watched it with me.

[00:45:50] I mean, I was like 7am.

[00:45:51] He loved it.

[00:45:52] He was like, oh, that's really nice.

[00:45:54] We both have a self-spot for Judith because we used to babysit a kid who looks really like Judith

[00:45:59] and she was the kick ass girl.

[00:46:02] And yeah, we both got on really well with her.

[00:46:04] And yeah, she always reminds us of her.

[00:46:07] But I just think, uh, Kayleigh Flemingman, I hope she has such a good career ahead of her

[00:46:12] because she's fantastic.

[00:46:14] Me too.

[00:46:15] Yeah, it's good that she's...

[00:46:16] And I realize she and Andrew Lincoln have never shared the screen and they managed to play

[00:46:20] that really convincingly.

[00:46:22] Yeah, I just loved it.

[00:46:24] I don't even know for sure if she's even met him before this, because he didn't go to the...

[00:46:30] He didn't even have done cons.

[00:46:31] No, we didn't.

[00:46:32] He didn't mention that much.

[00:46:33] Yeah.

[00:46:34] Maybe.

[00:46:35] All right.

[00:46:36] I'm going to talk about what the Escholane briefing ended up being.

[00:46:40] We kind of touched on it a little bit.

[00:46:43] But in the first episode of this series they showed us reports that the people of Omaha were

[00:46:48] mysteriously killed and the CRM was investigating.

[00:46:51] And if you watch World Beyond, you knew that the CRM actually destroyed Omaha and the scientist

[00:46:58] of the CRM, I guess scientists or statisticians or something had predicted that the Omaha

[00:47:04] group would eventually fall to disease and famine.

[00:47:07] And they were worried that would spread to the CRM and threaten their survival.

[00:47:13] So there's a celebration called Monument Day that commemorated the start of the zombie

[00:47:20] apocalypse.

[00:47:21] And so a lot of people would be outside and gathered together and they chlorine gas

[00:47:25] them in part to prolong the time before their reanimation so they could get more research

[00:47:30] specimens too.

[00:47:31] So it was double dark.

[00:47:35] But the chlorine gas that they used here, everyone came back straight away.

[00:47:39] Right.

[00:47:40] That's right.

[00:47:41] Flathole.

[00:47:43] But given that part of the story of the ones who live is about Rick potentially thinking

[00:47:53] he could do well with the CRM, like get them to change the things he didn't like so

[00:47:58] they could be a force for good.

[00:48:00] I thought the idea that the CRM actually killed 90,000 people and they're keeping that

[00:48:07] as secret in this series is a twist you know and it was so weird.

[00:48:13] Well, I'm glad that we know that Rick didn't know that.

[00:48:16] Yeah, yeah, there was a bit of the start where we were like, did he know he didn't know

[00:48:20] we were all pretty sure he didn't but just in case.

[00:48:22] Yeah.

[00:48:23] And I mean my point in talking about this right now is that you and I decided not to

[00:48:28] talk about that in the main body of the podcast.

[00:48:31] We only had it at our echelon briefings at the end in case there were people who didn't

[00:48:35] watch World Beyond and it felt like a spoiler to me.

[00:48:38] It felt like a plot twist that would be a spoiler if you hadn't watched World Beyond.

[00:48:42] So I am curious now that it's all said and done and you're listening to me.

[00:48:46] If you didn't watch World Beyond, you didn't listen to our spoiler sections at the end.

[00:48:50] Did that come off as a spoiler at all?

[00:48:51] I'm sure people might have suspected it anyway because it's the bad organization you

[00:48:56] know, maybe we shouldn't have bothered keeping it a secret.

[00:48:59] You know, I think we did the right thing.

[00:49:01] I think it's always better to give people the option.

[00:49:04] Yeah.

[00:49:05] Yeah.

[00:49:06] But I want to hear from the listeners too though if you have an opinion.

[00:49:08] No, I don't.

[00:49:09] I think I'm right.

[00:49:10] I'm just right to me.

[00:49:12] Separately.

[00:49:13] I don't care to know.

[00:49:14] I'm glad we did it that way but I'm curious.

[00:49:18] I'm just curious what people say.

[00:49:21] So then the whole time I was hoping when we did that we for one would get the echelon briefing,

[00:49:26] you know, it wasn't a given that we would.

[00:49:29] That what if and when we did that we would learn not only about this Omaha thing but some

[00:49:34] other crazy things that we didn't already know about from watching World Beyond and we

[00:49:38] didn't really learn all that much more.

[00:49:40] We really didn't.

[00:49:41] So I was just expecting just a little, a little, oh no, hang on.

[00:49:46] There was one thing.

[00:49:47] There was one thing.

[00:49:48] He said that they had I'm going to find the right words.

[00:49:52] They had embeds in.

[00:49:54] Yeah, spies and I'm like that would be an interesting twist of somebody that we'd known

[00:50:00] the whole time.

[00:50:01] Hashtag in it.

[00:50:03] One.

[00:50:04] One actually.

[00:50:06] Fuck me.

[00:50:07] I thought that that lunch would have been a great embed.

[00:50:09] He could have been he could have been but he could have been because he does threaten Pamela

[00:50:14] with you have no idea the relationships.

[00:50:16] He was an embed and the CRM scientists have figured out how to bring people back to life.

[00:50:22] And he'll be the first one that would be amazing.

[00:50:24] That would be such a great story wouldn't it?

[00:50:26] So I could write it.

[00:50:29] I mean, I've got free time now so I could write it like they want to let me know.

[00:50:34] But yeah, I did wonder if there was a did that surprised me.

[00:50:40] I was like, oh, I wonder if there was someone in the community.

[00:50:43] Yeah, I like Sandra.

[00:50:44] And I was like, what's that?

[00:50:45] Jada's like.

[00:50:46] That's what he said.

[00:50:47] No, I mean, honestly, Alexandria, I don't think so because a whole point of this was

[00:50:53] to keep the existence of Alexandria a secret and it's small too.

[00:50:59] So I would guess no, but Commonwealth, I would think so.

[00:51:04] Yeah.

[00:51:05] It's 50,000 people if they don't know about the Commonwealth, they suck.

[00:51:10] I was fucking love a tales from the walking dead that showed like,

[00:51:14] Neil talks about a civil war.

[00:51:15] I'd love to have seen some scenes from that.

[00:51:18] Yeah, yeah.

[00:51:19] I'd love to see an episode where we found out how the Commonwealth was related to the CRM.

[00:51:22] Right.

[00:51:23] Yeah, I don't know.

[00:51:24] There's so many potential bits here.

[00:51:27] Yeah, they've really should be.

[00:51:30] It'd be a great graphic novel.

[00:51:32] So more, we knew from world beyond that the CRM was on their way to kill everyone in Portland

[00:51:38] too.

[00:51:39] And we also knew that they cared about particularly gifted children, but here we have this child

[00:51:46] evacuation protocol.

[00:51:47] We didn't, I don't know if we knew about that.

[00:51:50] The destruction of Portland that the spies you just mentioned had embedded themselves in

[00:51:56] the school system so they could prepare to airlift at 10% of the kids away and that shows

[00:52:03] you they only care about the really smart kids and this voiceover talking about the mission

[00:52:08] says any one of them could prove to be the difference in our civilization's survival.

[00:52:12] So they just picked out the kids that they thought were the brightest.

[00:52:17] We had inklings of that in world beyond, but not explicit.

[00:52:20] Yeah, I mean with what's your name?

[00:52:24] Hope.

[00:52:25] Hope, yeah.

[00:52:26] Yeah, they were interested in her.

[00:52:28] Leo also mentioned that until recently they supplied test subjects for scientific experiments

[00:52:34] to CRM run labs when we saw some flashes of world beyond with zombies and labs.

[00:52:40] So we knew that from world beyond what he didn't mention, but I'm going to spoil now is

[00:52:44] that because I think it's not really that much of a spoiler is what they use the A's

[00:52:48] for was the test subjects.

[00:52:51] So some at least one listener had said, you know, if they're just going to kill the A's,

[00:52:56] why did they want J.D.S.

[00:52:59] Why did they say if you're going to trade someone to get access, it has to be an A. That's

[00:53:04] what they said originally and that's because they needed test subjects and they would like

[00:53:09] have a zombie bite a test subject and then study how long he turned and things like that.

[00:53:14] Like they would kill them but in pursuit of studying the zombie virus.

[00:53:20] And Bill said that happened up until recently and if you want to know why that stopped

[00:53:24] to watch world beyond.

[00:53:27] So yeah, we learned a couple of sort of new things the thing about the spies and I think

[00:53:34] that could mean their spies in the Commonwealth and he said throughout the continent and

[00:53:39] the world.

[00:53:40] So possibly also and we might actually see something about this in the Poovaar Davey

[00:53:45] Vant community.

[00:53:46] Oh, finally.

[00:53:47] Right.

[00:53:48] Maybe.

[00:53:49] Wait, wait.

[00:53:52] And he spelled it out that the CRM is pretty much going to kill everyone else in the worlds

[00:53:57] which means eventually they would get to the Commonwealth in Alexandria.

[00:54:00] He said the CRM destroys communities for resources for strategic superiority and to ensure

[00:54:05] the city's secrecy and security above all.

[00:54:07] Well, we knew they destroyed communities but he went on to say at 18 hours we're going

[00:54:12] to take our final action to leave us as the supreme force on this continent.

[00:54:15] Maybe the world meaning kill Portland and then they would call it a mysterious tragedy use

[00:54:20] it as an excuse to declare martial law over the civic republic then march across the

[00:54:25] country and eliminate any growing competition.

[00:54:28] Now, to me that was the big point that I mean you could have suspected it but they really

[00:54:33] spelled out we're going to kill everyone except for Philadelphia.

[00:54:39] And so that gives me like makes me think about a higher level view of why why do this

[00:54:45] it really makes sense why they separated A's and B's now because they wanted a community

[00:54:49] of compliant people B's who were no threats wouldn't cause any trouble and then Biel he

[00:54:56] said at some point this was all my idea so that's why I feel like it's cult like he

[00:55:00] walked at first wanted to be the only leader and to give all the orders and everyone else

[00:55:09] would be compliant and then you would have this military that was also compliant they

[00:55:13] would kill everyone else on the planet just in case they were a threat to try to save

[00:55:17] these people with it now it's a dumb plan you need leaders within an organization but

[00:55:22] at least sort of understand what the point of all of it was.

[00:55:26] Yeah, yeah it was interesting when he said the decisions were his and it was his alone

[00:55:33] to see with and he talked about the briefing as a way of like sharing that weight with

[00:55:39] people and I'd yeah it was he's a very interesting character in that sense and I think the

[00:55:44] cult like mentality really does map on to that quite neatly.

[00:55:49] And I think this episode really shows why they got someone like Terry O'Kin to play the

[00:55:56] part because I really did I liked the way they spaced out the echelon briefing throughout

[00:56:00] the first part of the episode and I thought the way he played it was great because he

[00:56:06] didn't come off like a mustache twirling villain in fact he came off kind of likable almost

[00:56:13] but that's the most dangerous kind of person because if you listen to what he's saying

[00:56:16] it's fucked up.

[00:56:17] And a little bit insecure when he's like hey I know it wasn't cutting a guy's throat

[00:56:21] I was my teeth but like you know it's still pretty pretty bad right and I'm like well

[00:56:27] that was weird to me because he just said that he killed like thousands of people and

[00:56:32] I'm like yeah that's a lot worse.

[00:56:34] Yeah, that's way worse.

[00:56:37] Yeah and yeah Terry O'Kin a cynical zed would say they didn't use him enough in the show

[00:56:46] but I would say the way they used him was great and I thought their fight scene in particular

[00:56:50] was very strong.

[00:56:52] And he was an amazing zed and amazing zed.

[00:56:55] Yeah and both of the statements the way they used him was great but they didn't use him

[00:57:00] quite enough for my liking.

[00:57:03] For a long time in the show they kind of we didn't see that many named characters as

[00:57:08] zed but then I think in the Kang era we got a bit more because the dick we saw as a

[00:57:15] zed and then we saw in the end, uh, Cedeek.

[00:57:19] Oh wow, Cedeek yeah.

[00:57:21] Yeah he we saw him as a zed we saw Lance Horn's Bay as a zed and here we got to see

[00:57:25] General B.

[00:57:26] L.

[00:57:27] Zed and I always like it when actors have to go for in B.

[00:57:30] I find it really entertaining to watch and I like seeing what kind of zombies they are

[00:57:34] and I thought Terry O'Kin was a great one.

[00:57:37] I kind of wondered if how Terry O'Kin felt about that?

[00:57:41] Was he like excited about it or is surely if you're going to show like the worst thing

[00:57:46] you're like oh yes.

[00:57:48] Because they asked him in an interview if he watched some walking dead to get ready for

[00:57:54] this and he said not really he said, you know I didn't need to and I forget exactly

[00:57:59] we said, but um it made sense to me because B.

[00:58:03] L would not know anything that any of these characters went through.

[00:58:08] He would just know about his own path which I'm sure you know Terry O'Kin had in his

[00:58:13] head.

[00:58:14] He cares about story.

[00:58:15] Yeah.

[00:58:16] Well I had a big long point about my longest point actually was about B.L.

[00:58:20] And because I thought what we learned about him was kind of fascinating.

[00:58:24] Cool.

[00:58:25] I this idea of like the general who never had to do his service who wants to do it now.

[00:58:32] He loves to be monologue which I thought was quite interesting.

[00:58:35] I alone decided to path ahead and I alone want to feel the weight of it and he talks

[00:58:39] about Rick coming back and he's like and I'm humbled by that and I'm like this chat is

[00:58:44] quite gameplay but I like it works for this guy.

[00:58:47] Yeah, like he would be a guy who would speechify and it's believable.

[00:58:51] Oh yeah.

[00:58:52] I wondered if he knew Pope when he started talking about being a Vietnam and stuff.

[00:58:55] Like did you know what guy with a bad hat called Pope?

[00:58:58] Can you never bring him up again?

[00:59:00] No, I'm just kidding.

[00:59:04] Do you know Pope?

[00:59:05] Yeah he sucks.

[00:59:07] I did laugh at the sort of the gearing up for the echelon briefing, the performance of

[00:59:10] like the gun on the table put your prosthetic in front of me away from you.

[00:59:14] Like the scene setting was very incredible.

[00:59:18] And looking right into the camera as he was delivering it as if he was talking right

[00:59:22] to us at first.

[00:59:23] Yeah, reflect on your whole life.

[00:59:25] Yeah.

[00:59:26] Everything up to this moment.

[00:59:27] I was like this would better be a fucking great briefing because the like the buildup

[00:59:31] is quite a lot.

[00:59:32] I was 90% sure that tea was poisoned.

[00:59:36] They kept focusing in on it and I was like Rick don't drink that.

[00:59:41] Rick don't drink that.

[00:59:42] Rick don't drink that.

[00:59:44] And then tangent time I remembered about a friend of mine who accidentally tried to buy

[00:59:51] some gin sanctity and instead bought Korean women's diet tea which is a laxative and drank

[00:59:57] six cups of it and you're late to go to hospital.

[00:59:59] So Peter and I were like hope it's not that tea that our friend who shall not be named

[01:00:04] drunk so for the rest of it we were laughing at the thought that Rick couldn't do anything

[01:00:08] because he would be like parallel to diarrhea.

[01:00:10] That would be a twist.

[01:00:11] It would be a twist, Michonne.

[01:00:12] You're going to have to do this on your own because I'm in a bit of situation.

[01:00:18] I can't do it Michonne.

[01:00:20] Come on Rick.

[01:00:21] We've got to know really.

[01:00:22] I can't trust me.

[01:00:23] No really.

[01:00:24] Really?

[01:00:25] I'm in the john it's going to be a while.

[01:00:28] What time is this meeting?

[01:00:30] I killed General B.I.L but bad news, I've got the shit's big time.

[01:00:34] So yeah.

[01:00:36] I just thought is it like truss serum has he been put like the tea really stressed me out.

[01:00:41] You always notice things I don't even need.

[01:00:43] The music was like when the tea was there and I was like.

[01:00:49] I kept it.

[01:00:50] It was like you just keep muttering to yourself to taste.

[01:00:54] I was like 70 am.

[01:00:58] Rick saying he killed someone with his teeth like they do I thought was interesting.

[01:01:02] I love that.

[01:01:03] I'd never equated that act with being like a zombie in my head and the fact that that's

[01:01:10] what he found shameful about it was it was like they do.

[01:01:13] I think I mentioned that on the podcast way back when.

[01:01:18] The be all back story he talked about his time in the military.

[01:01:23] He talked about being a Vietnam twice this idea about the second civil war fought on good

[01:01:30] Pennsylvania ground was fascinating to me.

[01:01:32] I'm the idea of Pittsburgh and Philadelphia as the two fronts.

[01:01:35] He talks about using the dead mass to overwhelm the troops.

[01:01:39] I killed my past in a whole city so another could live.

[01:01:42] And that's how he talks.

[01:01:44] He brings us in to learn the first secret about the most likely outcome being that we're

[01:01:48] all going to die.

[01:01:49] He does this amazing image like the earth is being cluttered with corpses a strange temporary

[01:01:54] museum for a blink of an existence.

[01:01:57] He's great.

[01:01:58] You can see why people follow him like his rhetoric is top notch.

[01:02:04] And yeah, the rest of it I think you've all covered about the martial law doing this.

[01:02:10] What I thought was interesting is what's the most sinister I think about what he's

[01:02:14] saying yes, people are going to die and are going to be killed.

[01:02:17] But also this idea that people within the public once again, some of their freedoms will

[01:02:22] be delayed yet again as the idea of keeping that freedom from people that I find the most

[01:02:26] sinister is it's finding excuses to never have them be able to do the things they want

[01:02:31] to do again.

[01:02:32] I was worried when he brought up.

[01:02:39] I thought Rick was going to jump right up and Tara's thrown out with his teeth when

[01:02:44] he said honestly, I was like, but then when he was talking about you will never have

[01:02:50] to suffer that loss again.

[01:02:51] You could bring them to us.

[01:02:52] They will be spared from our march.

[01:02:54] That was the one point where I was like, they've set this up quite well so you know, that

[01:02:59] is Rick's biggest fear we find that out and so forth.

[01:03:01] And he relaxed his grip on his knife for a second and part of you wonders.

[01:03:05] Oh,

[01:03:06] I'm blaming him.

[01:03:09] It's got to be tempting.

[01:03:10] If someone tells you that you can never, you can be guaranteed that you won't feel

[01:03:14] that loss.

[01:03:15] But then just like if Rick did consider it for a minute or a second and so did I, I

[01:03:25] think I dismissed it too.

[01:03:26] Like no, he won't do that.

[01:03:29] You know, no way.

[01:03:31] The show and clicks kind of break conversation and be all notices them and then tries to

[01:03:36] get Rick to swear on the sword.

[01:03:38] So we find out what Oka format by swear on the sword but don't let it take, which I think

[01:03:42] means say you'll do it, but don't take it to heart and try and find other ways of

[01:03:48] doing things.

[01:03:49] Oh, okay.

[01:03:50] Thank you.

[01:03:51] Yes.

[01:03:52] That's why that's where I'm the sword don't let it take so swear on it, but don't let

[01:03:55] it overwhelm you and make you into different person.

[01:03:58] And I wondered if Rick would do just that, you know, yeah, let's talk for his sensible

[01:04:05] advices.

[01:04:06] Yeah, okay.

[01:04:07] But he did it.

[01:04:08] I was right.

[01:04:09] Greg's red right.

[01:04:10] How the fuck is he going to do that?

[01:04:12] Looking to my eyes.

[01:04:14] Yeah.

[01:04:15] That the drama of the moment of the two of them looking at each other was just yes.

[01:04:19] So high octane.

[01:04:21] I think just because Rick hesitated, because Bill said no.

[01:04:27] He knew that Rick was about to do something but he caught it before Rick even did anything.

[01:04:32] I thought that was such a great moment and then Rick goes his knife.

[01:04:35] Bear is it right into his chest?

[01:04:37] So good.

[01:04:38] God damn, Oka for me.

[01:04:42] My son brought me back.

[01:04:44] I thought the line about one unstoppable life was a bit cheesy, but I liked we're not

[01:04:48] dead.

[01:04:50] And then his immediate red doing thorn to lie about where Bill is saying he went to the

[01:04:54] woods.

[01:04:55] I was like, because he he stabbed him through the hand.

[01:04:59] That's when he with his own sword and that's what it's going to be so sore.

[01:05:02] Yeah.

[01:05:03] And he said damn, Oka for and then then he killed him, but he didn't really show him die.

[01:05:10] And then you see Rick calling thorn and I'm like, you better keep your eye on.

[01:05:14] Beel over there because I'm not so sure he's dead.

[01:05:17] But then next thing you know, he's carrying him around in that case with blood seeping

[01:05:20] on the bottom.

[01:05:21] That is one of those things like it tore to fine line between hilarious and very tense.

[01:05:26] Like I was very tense in the lift but then what I thought about it was a bit like, like

[01:05:33] if you just changed the soundtrack to the Benny Hill music, I mean, you change the soundtrack

[01:05:37] of anything to the Benny Hill music and it's funny, but that in particular was quite

[01:05:41] funny.

[01:05:42] Yeah.

[01:05:43] Try hand mids tail.

[01:05:44] No, I don't know.

[01:05:45] That was my beel.

[01:05:53] My beel feel.

[01:05:54] Beel's beel.

[01:05:55] That's good.

[01:05:56] He made me blow snott out my nose.

[01:05:59] I when Beel, you know, he talked about that civil war and he killed the people from his hometown

[01:06:09] so that he could get rid of the people who were trying to blow up filled Elfia.

[01:06:13] And that was sort of similar to what Okofor did.

[01:06:16] You know, he blew up Marines to stop them.

[01:06:19] I don't know how those two events tie in together.

[01:06:22] Presumably it was all part of this civil war.

[01:06:24] It was just, it was just Okofor and Beel left.

[01:06:26] They're like, well, I did one law.

[01:06:27] You did the other law.

[01:06:28] Oh crap.

[01:06:29] It was a community.

[01:06:30] Oh shit.

[01:06:31] At least we have each other.

[01:06:34] But those are dark things but it's more like most of the things that Rick's done where

[01:06:41] it's to stop a threat.

[01:06:44] And Beel went from that to, well, anyone could be a threat so let's just kill them all.

[01:06:50] You know, that's part that I don't quite can't get on board with.

[01:06:55] It's a swing.

[01:06:56] It's a swing.

[01:06:57] Yeah.

[01:06:58] Yeah.

[01:06:59] I loved all of that.

[01:07:00] His past is alcoholic father.

[01:07:01] I mean, just the whole scene that was drawn out in several beats interrupted by other

[01:07:10] scenes between Rick and Beel.

[01:07:13] I thought it was great.

[01:07:14] I really enjoyed it and it made me, it was just as good a part of this episode for me

[01:07:19] as everything else until the end which was the best when they had their reunion.

[01:07:25] And I was so tense.

[01:07:26] But it was interesting to see, to think about Beel and be like, how much of this do

[01:07:32] I agree with?

[01:07:33] And him as a charismatic character but also the tension of Rick grabbing at his knife

[01:07:38] and it was just a very tensing and then to have the satisfaction of him actually attack

[01:07:43] and then they have a fight which was great, you know, at the end.

[01:07:46] And it was all very well done.

[01:07:49] I think it depends.

[01:07:52] Like I was thinking about this when I was listening to the feedback episode because

[01:07:58] I was thinking about Veronica who's a kick ass scientist.

[01:08:03] So Veronica and I were both have doctorates in different fields.

[01:08:07] Veronica's got doctrine science.

[01:08:09] I've got doctrine in literature and we often agree on a lot of the same things.

[01:08:13] And I was thinking with them what Beel says about statistics and projections.

[01:08:20] I'm always like, but what about if it doesn't happen like that?

[01:08:23] What if something, what if there's a butterfly effect?

[01:08:26] What about hope?

[01:08:27] What about beauty?

[01:08:28] What about art?

[01:08:29] This is why I would die within the first five minutes of some people.

[01:08:31] Because I'd be like, I'm going to be a bard.

[01:08:35] And I just thought it's so interesting that we can come to these things with different

[01:08:39] perspectives and find common ground in the zombie apocalypse.

[01:08:43] But I would find I just absolutely certainty is so difficult.

[01:08:48] And if someone said to me in 14 years, we're all definitely going to die.

[01:08:52] I'd be like, but what if we don't?

[01:08:53] We don't know.

[01:08:55] We can't predict who predicted 10 years ago where we'd be now.

[01:09:00] And that's the world beyond was about all that too.

[01:09:04] Elton started off as very pessimistic about the future of humanity and came around.

[01:09:11] I mean, you had, I love everything you're saying about science and predictions and modeling

[01:09:18] out but not knowing for sure.

[01:09:21] And that was, Beel was just spent all this time laying out the reasoning for why he's

[01:09:27] doing what he's doing and why, you know, that humanity is going to die in 14 years and

[01:09:31] all this.

[01:09:32] And then Rick's counter to that was the world isn't going to end.

[01:09:37] That's it.

[01:09:38] Yeah.

[01:09:39] I'm definitely the Rick in that position.

[01:09:42] I'm like, no, it's not.

[01:09:43] Well, I don't know if he's not loved because what if he's right?

[01:09:47] What if he's right?

[01:09:48] What if this is the only way to save humanity and Rick and Michonne are like, well, we care

[01:09:53] about love.

[01:09:54] And then they end up causing everyone's death.

[01:09:57] It could happen that way in some world.

[01:09:59] I mean, it won't in this story because that would be a lame story but you never know.

[01:10:03] So like here's what I'll say sentiment.

[01:10:05] Here's what I will say.

[01:10:08] I think that yeah, the facts are probably right.

[01:10:12] The mass is probably right but how we get there and how we prevent it are two different

[01:10:16] things.

[01:10:17] Mm hmm.

[01:10:18] So I mean, because Beel also talked about not just the dead but I can't remember the

[01:10:23] words he used but he was kind of talking about the things they talked about in the world

[01:10:27] beyond about are there enough resources for the people that are here, you know?

[01:10:32] And we struggle with that in the non-apocalyptic world.

[01:10:35] But you don't kill people to take care of it because there aren't enough resources.

[01:10:38] You figure out how to produce more resources and I just think a good way to motivate people

[01:10:45] to care about each other and figure things out is to care about each other, you know,

[01:10:50] I mean, just to value caring about even people that you don't know and if you have that

[01:10:55] care in society then you will want, you'll be in a society where we take care of each

[01:10:59] other.

[01:11:00] That's what I want.

[01:11:01] I want a society where we all want to take care of each other not everyone else's competition

[01:11:05] and do your best and fuck everyone else.

[01:11:07] I don't want that.

[01:11:08] Yeah.

[01:11:09] No, I agree with you.

[01:11:10] That sucks.

[01:11:11] That's not world I want to live in.

[01:11:12] Exactly like Michonne said to Rick, what kind of a world are we leaving them if?

[01:11:17] You know, we let this kind of thing happen.

[01:11:19] And I think that's true.

[01:11:21] Yeah.

[01:11:22] All right, so that was great.

[01:11:25] I want to talk about J.D.S. Dossier a little bit.

[01:11:28] Oh yeah.

[01:11:29] A cat butt dossier.

[01:11:32] I don't have the complete text but more than enough to get the gist and I'll read the

[01:11:38] part site managed to transcribe.

[01:11:41] Did you do any of that?

[01:11:43] I did not.

[01:11:44] So I'm interested in this very much.

[01:11:46] So there's a lot that was blurred out but something, something traded the injured Rick Grimes

[01:11:51] who I portrayed as a something is not a B. And I have a much deeper relationship than

[01:11:58] I had previously portrayed.

[01:12:01] Bob, Bob, Bob had battled him in an alliance with a third hostile community that had something

[01:12:08] consolidating power in the area.

[01:12:11] Rick let his own alliance of communities to defeat us.

[01:12:14] Bob, Bob further had paved the way for peace between all the parties concerned.

[01:12:18] He has demonstrated himself to be an A and his community Alexander your safe zone has

[01:12:23] a number of blank blank within its walls.

[01:12:27] Further Rick's wife, Michonne is the individual known as Dana.

[01:12:30] Bob, Bob, she had searched for Rick not knowing he was aboard and had shot down his helicopter.

[01:12:37] My omissions have created a critical vulnerability for the civic republic and I firmly believe

[01:12:41] that Alexandria, Rick and Michonne must be destroyed.

[01:12:44] A lot of something about that Rick and Michonne would return to Alexandria and let them know

[01:12:53] about the civic republic and that information could spread to other places and compromise

[01:12:56] their security.

[01:12:58] Also quote, Rick Grimes is a natural born leader who has something survivors under a single

[01:13:03] banner to his strategic abilities.

[01:13:06] Something something affordable upon it.

[01:13:09] Known Rick's wife is a highly something her unwavering loyalty to Rick and her relentless

[01:13:15] something equally dangerous adversary.

[01:13:20] The Alexandria safe zone is organized and resourceful to secure the CRM's position and prevent

[01:13:26] something something critical to eliminate Alexandria at Rick and Michonne.

[01:13:31] So you get the idea there a threat.

[01:13:33] I like this.

[01:13:34] Kill them.

[01:13:35] She had very different handwriting to what I was expecting.

[01:13:38] I thought she would have really like, oh it's very neat.

[01:13:42] It's like, oh, a very neat handwriting.

[01:13:44] Yeah, surprise me.

[01:13:46] I wonder if, no, I doubt it.

[01:13:50] I was going to say I wonder if Paulianna McIntosh actually wrote that probably not.

[01:13:54] I don't know.

[01:13:55] I don't know.

[01:13:56] All right, that's all I just wanted to read a little bit of that.

[01:14:00] You got anything else?

[01:14:01] I couldn't.

[01:14:02] I've got so much crap man.

[01:14:04] I've got so much stuff.

[01:14:06] Just yeah, the shenanigans, the tension, just everything.

[01:14:10] I just, ah, I just want to talk about everything that happened in this episode.

[01:14:16] Even the dark cold open with the like the panning in on them.

[01:14:22] I mean, panning in on them having this like love making sash before they're big, the big

[01:14:28] shenanigans, shall we say.

[01:14:30] I was very pleased that they actually planned it.

[01:14:32] Rick and Michonne don't always plan things, so that seemed to work in both their favor.

[01:14:37] But that whole build up with all the voiceovers is never that simple.

[01:14:41] Oh fuck, my nerves at that point.

[01:14:43] I was like, oh god, I'm going to die.

[01:14:45] Sergeant major Rick Grimes appearing at the gates like it's Alexandria.

[01:14:51] He told me it's just the burn and then the credits come up.

[01:14:54] Oh yeah, I didn't make that connection with Alexandria.

[01:14:57] I think there's a lot of.

[01:14:59] There's callbacks.

[01:15:00] I've got a list of callbacks and things.

[01:15:03] Yeah.

[01:15:04] I called, I liked Rick and we kind of at B. Lee's go for a walk which is when he's

[01:15:08] taking B. Lee into the lift.

[01:15:10] I just wrote this as a balance of ridiculous tense and funny but also tense like the blood

[01:15:15] seeping.

[01:15:16] Um, the lift taking forever Michonne finding him.

[01:15:19] I mean, it's just, it was just also good.

[01:15:22] I could go on and on about all the details in it, but I just really enjoyed the level

[01:15:27] of tension that they managed to create in this episode.

[01:15:29] And I just, I did not relax until they were running off the helicopter at the end.

[01:15:34] I was like so much has gone wrong.

[01:15:36] They're not going to get home and I did, I did laugh because I watched the Sun Easter

[01:15:40] Sunday and when Rick exploded the zombies and then kind of walked through the my friend

[01:15:45] like Jesus Rick is risen.

[01:15:47] Which is very old TT but I was very very stressed at this point.

[01:15:53] I cannot emphasize this enough.

[01:15:54] So yeah, the tension levels were high.

[01:15:57] And I liked the plan too and that they didn't tell us what was happening.

[01:16:01] I mean, there was some artfulness in this episode for sure.

[01:16:03] The way that like you said, you showed it showed Rick and Michonne planning it out but

[01:16:08] they dispersed that in chunks throughout the episode, you know, not in chronological

[01:16:14] order and um, showing the grenades with the wire through it.

[01:16:18] But we didn't know what it was for and she just said Nat gave her the idea somehow and

[01:16:24] then showing that it was actually contingent on Bill and this other zombie to activate the

[01:16:30] grenades.

[01:16:31] I mean, poetic justice of the way.

[01:16:33] Yeah, right.

[01:16:34] Beels the one who I thought that was clever and fun in a really twisted fucked up way.

[01:16:40] Only in the walking dead.

[01:16:41] Yeah, right.

[01:16:42] I have Thorne as well in this episode.

[01:16:47] You could tell she was going to go fool but when she kind of he Rick mentions Okafor and

[01:16:52] she's like no Okafor died, he wasn't meant to be part of this.

[01:16:56] He wasn't right about everything.

[01:16:58] When she has the realization montage that Bethune is Michonne we see Rick going all in on

[01:17:04] a game of poker and I thought that was quite an interesting thing for her to see.

[01:17:09] But I was also like, did she not suspect this before?

[01:17:11] I don't know.

[01:17:12] I don't.

[01:17:13] Um, Thorne just losing her shit, shutting you just tried our chance.

[01:17:17] You just tried the whole world.

[01:17:19] It was, it was something to behold.

[01:17:22] We talked about being afraid for their lives the whole time.

[01:17:26] I think the part where I was the most anxious was when they successfully rigged the explosives

[01:17:33] and started to leave and then Thorne showed up.

[01:17:36] I thought oh fuck this character is going to kill one of these two and we don't like her.

[01:17:43] I mean, I've tried to stand up for a bit but I don't want her to be the reason why Rick

[01:17:46] or Michonne dies and that's when I was like the most anxious.

[01:17:50] Yeah, I completely with you.

[01:17:53] I was like oh fuck, oh fuck, oh fuck.

[01:17:55] I could just see her killing Michonne or Rick.

[01:17:58] And so that wasn't amazing.

[01:18:02] Um, I was good tension but I'm glad I didn't have the tension.

[01:18:06] And that moment where Michonne gets caught in J.D.S.

[01:18:09] room with her foot because it the letter pushes up against it.

[01:18:14] That was also very tense.

[01:18:16] You know, if there's one thing I've learned from watching shows like this, it's if you

[01:18:20] knock on a door of a room that someone's in and you say like hey, Jimmy are you there

[01:18:25] and they don't reply?

[01:18:26] Don't go in the room.

[01:18:27] You're going to get killed.

[01:18:28] Like just walk away.

[01:18:29] Get a friend.

[01:18:30] Get them to come with you.

[01:18:31] That's true.

[01:18:32] Arm yourself.

[01:18:33] Come in and don't get garotted.

[01:18:35] Like that's my advice for you as listeners.

[01:18:37] Actually, when you're in a like militant place like this.

[01:18:43] Also when Michonne was ripping up the letter, I was like honestly,

[01:18:46] Burnett don't leave bits of it.

[01:18:48] I know she did start to pick it up, but yeah, I was like, I was like, I get the dramatic

[01:18:54] effect but Burnett.

[01:18:55] That would have been dramatic if she burned it.

[01:18:59] Yeah.

[01:19:00] And did I career?

[01:19:01] It was just wonderful.

[01:19:02] Her eye acting was on point after that Portland briefing.

[01:19:05] I just was that little kid that like R.R.G.

[01:19:08] and it clearly shook her right to her core.

[01:19:11] And they thought about the use flashbacks really well for different purposes.

[01:19:15] It was to show the things that they have had to do.

[01:19:18] But also when there was talk of threats, they would think about the people they cared

[01:19:23] about and just bring home that they would be in danger.

[01:19:26] Yeah.

[01:19:27] Yeah.

[01:19:28] Do you have any further points or just notes?

[01:19:32] I have one more.

[01:19:33] It's kind of a point slash note.

[01:19:36] It's the news voiceover.

[01:19:38] I thought it would be good to do that.

[01:19:41] So they said the wide ranging ramifications surrounding operation N1W, which is what

[01:19:47] they call killing Portland and taking 10% of the kids.

[01:19:51] With the CRM's front liner force and the CRM force command, including major general

[01:19:56] Jonathan Beale, all casualties of the incident connected with shocking revelations regarding

[01:20:00] all their operations and activities.

[01:20:03] The CRC, which I presume means civic Republic Council, voted unanimously for emergency

[01:20:10] oversight over the remaining forces of the CRM.

[01:20:13] So that means the people in town took control of the military command hierarchies and layers

[01:20:20] of operational secrecy indicate infantry units did not participate in the atrocities

[01:20:25] perpetrated by these highest levels of the CRM, thus presenting hope for immediate reform.

[01:20:31] That means all the soldiers that were left were not the ones who had the echelon briefing

[01:20:35] they weren't complicit in the most heinous acts of the CRM so they could still be a part

[01:20:39] of the community.

[01:20:40] And in another stunning unanimous vote by the CRC overturning CRM guidance, free movement

[01:20:46] has been established for the Republic.

[01:20:48] Citizens are now free to leave it will and the city will now welcome new citizens as they

[01:20:53] may arrive.

[01:20:55] One new man named Negan is here.

[01:20:56] Well let's have a word from your own.

[01:21:01] He saw with oversight of the military now in the council's hands, the CRM's priority

[01:21:07] has shifted beyond the CR's defense to now engage with assist and even airlift any

[01:21:12] survivor or community they may encounter.

[01:21:15] So that's a big shift from nobody can leave or come in to, oh we're completely open

[01:21:20] to anyone.

[01:21:22] But anyway very much it's cool I liked it.

[01:21:27] I have my list of callbacks great yeah I'm curious what you got in the first scene

[01:21:33] we see some Johnny Walker black label you may remember it was also featured in last week's

[01:21:37] episode of callback to Johnny Walker.

[01:21:39] It's also called back to Hyundai in a way.

[01:21:42] Yes we see their weapons and wedding ring laid out on the ground while the wedding ring

[01:21:48] is getting handed to Michonne while they're while they're doing it, but we see a hatch

[01:21:53] and a kind of sword not the katana, but she gets her katana back at the end.

[01:21:58] Rick must have reclaimed it.

[01:21:59] Yeah she does at the very end.

[01:22:01] Oh at the very end.

[01:22:02] Oh okay I'm sorry.

[01:22:03] Yeah when the reunited.

[01:22:04] Okay.

[01:22:05] Sorry.

[01:22:07] We also see there's a can of orange soda out which made me think of Denise.

[01:22:11] I don't think it knows if it was delivered or not.

[01:22:13] How bad it was.

[01:22:15] Yeah we see the phone with Michonne and Judith on it.

[01:22:19] The metal cat is a callback as we mentioned earlier.

[01:22:22] J.D.S. is art, her portraits pictures of Gabriel and fermented faces, the literal flashbacks

[01:22:28] we see the governor, we see Negan the claimers terminus, the Christians.

[01:22:35] Michonne dealing with Jocelyn's group, we see Carl, we see flashes of Maggie Eugene Darrell,

[01:22:42] Carol Ezekiel like all the OGs.

[01:22:47] He says it's just the burnin is what Rick's dad tells him when he's caught burning the

[01:22:52] farm down in episode one.

[01:22:55] Even Okofur I think was a little callback.

[01:22:58] One callback in episode four where Rick says we can make this whole damn world ours

[01:23:02] if we want and Michonne says it's fun.

[01:23:04] It's something I would say but Luke's confused.

[01:23:06] She said it in a dream.

[01:23:08] I forgot this until I saw it in the, I was like oh that makes sense.

[01:23:13] And Michonne walking around and picking up her cuddly bunny rabbit reminded me of episode

[01:23:17] one when we see a little girl picking up the cuddly bunny rabbit.

[01:23:22] So yeah what's the callback?

[01:23:23] How about you?

[01:23:25] Just a little taster for how great the listener feedback episodes have been if you guys

[01:23:30] haven't listened.

[01:23:31] I'm going to read one from somebody right now.

[01:23:35] Amazing.

[01:23:36] That's Teresa Harper who wrote after watching episode six of the ones who live seeing that

[01:23:42] stuffed bunny.

[01:23:43] It dawned on me that in season 11 episode one, Acheron Part One Maggie stumbled upon a

[01:23:50] stuffed bunny at the tunnel of the subway on their quest to Meridian.

[01:23:55] Darrell also finds a Polaroid picture of two kids holding a stuffed bunny in the finale

[01:24:00] of the ones who live Michonne finds a stuffed bunny lying on the floor of the CRM.

[01:24:04] The bunny reminds me of that orange backpack that the man in the red poncho was carrying

[01:24:08] and resurfaced throughout the series of the walking dead.

[01:24:11] And then Dina said Lydia had a bunny and of course the bunny in the pilot right, the

[01:24:16] little zombie girl and Aaron found baby Gracie in the Savior's compound with a stuffed

[01:24:24] bunny in her crib.

[01:24:25] That was actually the same prop that little, you know, the younger Lydia had when we saw

[01:24:30] her backstory with Alpha.

[01:24:32] Really?

[01:24:33] Oh, that's cool.

[01:24:34] It's the same prop.

[01:24:36] I read T.W.D. prop master John Sanders had two rabbit plush toys made after Scott Gimbal

[01:24:42] asked for a Velveteen rabbit and they found the perfect one on Etsy.

[01:24:47] It was this actually Scottish artisan and they asked her can we make ten of these and

[01:24:53] she said no.

[01:24:54] And they said we're from the walking dead and she said no.

[01:24:58] And they explained it to her like we really need these and we love what you do and so

[01:25:02] she made two and she was excited about it.

[01:25:06] But then Judith also had one of those in a dream sequence of carols before he died apparently

[01:25:13] I read that I don't remember it.

[01:25:14] But anyway, so apparently this bunny has popped up in tons of places.

[01:25:18] Oh my God.

[01:25:19] And he is the ultimate walking dead spin off master.

[01:25:24] That's interesting.

[01:25:26] That's really funny.

[01:25:28] Funny, buddy.

[01:25:29] Did you have a toy when you were a kid?

[01:25:32] Um, yeah, I had toys.

[01:25:33] I had a little snoopy plush, you know, stuffed animal that I gave to a girl.

[01:25:40] This is a horrible story that I had a crush on in kindergarten and then I was crying

[01:25:43] at night because I didn't have it so I asked her for it back.

[01:25:46] Oh, did you get it back?

[01:25:49] I think she gave it back to me, which was okay.

[01:25:52] That's good that you got it back.

[01:25:53] Yeah, but I feel bad about it now.

[01:25:55] Shouldn't have.

[01:25:56] Yeah, but also, you know, about you.

[01:26:00] I had a hand like a fox, a cuddly toy fox, but it was like a hand pup that you keep your

[01:26:08] hand in.

[01:26:09] I still have it somewhere.

[01:26:10] But he yeah, he was my favorite.

[01:26:12] What's the voice?

[01:26:13] Uh, I didn't have one.

[01:26:16] You don't surprise me for me.

[01:26:18] He didn't have one and he was a puppet.

[01:26:20] He was silent, but he's like, yeah, he's the rubber's face together.

[01:26:24] He's got like a little bit smisting from where I used to like rub it.

[01:26:27] Um, yeah, that was mine.

[01:26:29] That was mine.

[01:26:30] I mean my favorite was my little spider man action figure that I tied my shoe lace around

[01:26:34] his arm and swung him around.

[01:26:36] Oh, that's really sweet.

[01:26:39] Oh, all right, let's get just a notes.

[01:26:43] Um, I don't have that many actually.

[01:26:46] I have that.

[01:26:48] Uh, there's quite a lot of sex in this show.

[01:26:50] It should have been called the ones who fuck.

[01:26:52] Um, I loved Michonne's line about being certifiable.

[01:26:56] Um, you don't leave people behind.

[01:26:59] This is the shit we do is some good dialogue, I think.

[01:27:02] Uh, and my final one is I think that, um, I think that Thorne yelling hands at Rick

[01:27:08] is really rude because he only has one now.

[01:27:10] Bit mean.

[01:27:11] Bit mean.

[01:27:12] Those are my notes.

[01:27:13] No, I liked when I think it was when they were just like rigging up the explosives.

[01:27:23] Rick said to Michonne, you know, beel said I could lead the CRM one day.

[01:27:26] Like he's probably.

[01:27:27] Oh, it's just like.

[01:27:29] It's just like.

[01:27:30] It's like you said earlier we've had so many CRM stories and build up and just Rick comes

[01:27:40] in and quickly ends it all.

[01:27:42] But I'm proud of Rick for interacting with the community and not taking it over as

[01:27:46] far as we know he left that to the.

[01:27:48] Yeah, and he only killed however many people were in that moose.

[01:27:53] So like two thousand two hundred seventy three probably.

[01:27:55] I mean ironically they killed people to save people there.

[01:28:00] And the burn in I do wonder if if they could have tried talking them out of it.

[01:28:06] They've all been indoctrinated.

[01:28:08] I guess but I don't know how much choice they had.

[01:28:12] Maybe some of them didn't really want to be doing what they were doing, but they didn't

[01:28:15] have any time for that it was too risky to try and also it's a fucking drama or you know

[01:28:21] action horror show so they had to have this big moment.

[01:28:24] But to me it feels like I was just making this point with somebody recently.

[01:28:28] I love the movie karate kids so much.

[01:28:32] But it's a lot about the characters in it.

[01:28:36] The good characters preach non-violence you know that Mr. Miyagi says I'm teaching you

[01:28:40] karate so that you won't have to fight.

[01:28:43] And so it's all about not needing to prove yourself but the final moment of that movie

[01:28:47] is Daniel just kicking the bad guy right in the face.

[01:28:51] So it's back and it's the most satisfying thing ever and it's like yeah that's what we're

[01:28:55] here for.

[01:28:56] Sometimes people need a kick.

[01:28:59] Yeah.

[01:29:00] In this case it was chlorine gassing a bunch of people and seeing them turn into zombies.

[01:29:05] Hell yeah.

[01:29:08] Yeah.

[01:29:10] I just wrote like I said before this felt like an ending.

[01:29:13] I hope it's not the last we see of Rick but at least we still have Darryl.

[01:29:20] Yeah, I think I want to see Rick again but I don't want him.

[01:29:25] I want him and Michonne to come out of retirement one last time and both go back to retirement

[01:29:29] after him.

[01:29:30] You see him happy.

[01:29:31] Yeah, so they can reunite with everybody else would be awesome if that's what you're

[01:29:35] going to do.

[01:29:36] Yeah, that's at all possible and I think from what Gimbal said he wants something like

[01:29:39] that too.

[01:29:41] I think this is the right place to end their story and it sucks because I don't want it

[01:29:45] to be but I think it is.

[01:29:47] Yes.

[01:29:48] Yeah.

[01:29:49] To be mature about it.

[01:29:50] Yes.

[01:29:51] This is a great ending.

[01:29:52] We don't want we want more of us but yeah, I mean we also don't want them to write

[01:30:00] a bunch of shitty stories about Rick and Michonne or something you know.

[01:30:04] No, exactly.

[01:30:05] Exactly.

[01:30:06] And last I think given all this that on the Darryl show, minor spoiler here but we heard

[01:30:15] Carol on the radio with Darryl saying, came back you know it was fuzzy.

[01:30:20] It was right.

[01:30:21] Yeah, it's got to be Rick, right?

[01:30:22] It's got to be Rick.

[01:30:24] And I think it's great that they put that in there rather than just not having her

[01:30:28] say anything because it totally makes sense that Carol would want to say that to Darryl

[01:30:32] knowing how much Carol cared about that and spent so much time looking for Rick.

[01:30:36] So that's cool.

[01:30:37] Yeah, I like that too.

[01:30:39] All right, that is our show episode 575.

[01:30:48] Thanks for listening everybody.

[01:30:49] I know it was good.

[01:30:50] I really wanted to make sure we did this episode justice because I think it was pretty

[01:30:55] special and I feel like we did.

[01:30:59] We did.

[01:31:00] So we nailed it.

[01:31:01] I mean, if we're grating ourselves.

[01:31:03] Yeah.

[01:31:04] We did so well.

[01:31:06] Thumbs up.

[01:31:07] Next episode, I hope you guys agree.

[01:31:09] Next episode will be news and list your feedback for this episode.

[01:31:13] The walking dead, the ones who live episode 6, the last time I've seen some of the feedback

[01:31:19] already.

[01:31:20] It's fantastic.

[01:31:21] I want to mention we're taking a little bit of a breather.

[01:31:24] I'm actually going on a trip to look at the eclipse that's coming up.

[01:31:28] So we're going to Ohio.

[01:31:29] Ohio.

[01:31:30] And we bought special glasses and everything.

[01:31:32] So anyway, will the feedback episode be out in about eight or nine days or so next

[01:31:39] the end of next week sometime?

[01:31:40] Yeah.

[01:31:41] And if you want to write and relieve us a voice message for it, you can find all our contact

[01:31:45] information at podcastcica.com.

[01:31:47] While you're there, please check out our other podcasts.

[01:31:51] I see that our episode of Welcome to the Apocalypse is out.

[01:31:55] It is.

[01:31:56] Welcome to it on the train yesterday.

[01:31:57] Are we going to?

[01:31:58] Really?

[01:31:59] Yeah, I've forgotten a lot of the things that happened.

[01:32:01] Yeah.

[01:32:02] It was good.

[01:32:03] I'm afraid to listen because I'm self-conscious, but I want to see what effects that Randy

[01:32:09] put on it.

[01:32:10] I think if you're a listener of this podcast, you will particularly enjoy it because there's

[01:32:14] a lot of in jokes.

[01:32:16] Oh, right.

[01:32:17] Oh yeah.

[01:32:18] Okay.

[01:32:19] I got to listen now.

[01:32:20] I want to say this episode is made possible by Patreon supporters like Michael Koska who

[01:32:23] pledged their support at patreon.com slash Jason Gavasi.

[01:32:26] Michael has been a listener, I think since the beginning.

[01:32:30] I'm happy that you're along.

[01:32:33] I think you've gone away a little bit but come back so it's great to have you back.

[01:32:36] Thank you, Michael so much.

[01:32:39] Oh, also, I want to mention now that I'm talking about Patreon that this segment we're doing

[01:32:44] tangent time.

[01:32:45] We've decided for anyone who pledges $5 a month or more.

[01:32:50] Our next topic is going to be our career paths.

[01:32:53] So the career paths that you and I have taken.

[01:32:56] Yeah, we'll reveal our jokes.

[01:32:58] I'm in the position.

[01:32:59] I'm not.

[01:33:00] I'm not.

[01:33:01] We're making it all up.

[01:33:03] So, alright, that is our show.

[01:33:06] Thanks for listening.

[01:33:07] Don't get bit Elizabeth Ainshorts.