580: "Triggerfinger" (TWD S2E9 Rewatch)

[00:00:00] What do we do with him?

[00:00:09] I repaired his calf muscle as best I can, but he'll probably have nerve damage. He won't

[00:00:15] be on his feet for at least a week. When he is, we give him a canteen, take him

[00:00:19] out to the main road, send him on his way. Isn't that the same as leaving him for the

[00:00:22] walkers? He'll have a fighting chance.

[00:00:25] Just gonna let him go? He knows where we are.

[00:00:28] He was blindfolded the whole way here. He's not a threat.

[00:00:31] Not a threat? How many of them were there? You killed three of their men, you took one

[00:00:34] of them hostage, but they just ain't gonna come looking for him.

[00:00:37] They left him for dead. No one is looking. We should still post a guard.

[00:00:41] He's out cold right now. Will be for hours. You know what? I'm gonna go get him some flowers

[00:00:46] and candy. Look at this, folks. We back in fantasy land.

[00:00:52] You know, we haven't even dealt with what you did at my barn yet. Let me make this perfectly

[00:00:56] clear once and for all. This is my farm. Now, I wanted you gone. Rick talked me out

[00:01:02] of it, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. So do us both a favor. Keep your mouth

[00:01:06] shut.

[00:01:38] Hey, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason and I'm Lucy. This is the cast of us.

[00:01:43] Episode 580. And this episode we're covering The Walking Dead season two, episode nine,

[00:01:49] Trigger Finger. Why is it called that? Because there was fire people shooting?

[00:01:57] I think so. You'd think that would be like some trigger finger is someone who's quick

[00:02:04] to shoot. You know, I wonder if that's referring to. Yeah, I don't know. Like, I don't know,

[00:02:11] they were in a shootout. It's more like that aftermath of trigger finger, like trigger

[00:02:16] finger to what happens next. Yeah, that's true. Rick was the trigger finger last time.

[00:02:22] Yeah. The ongoing adventures of trigger finger. I wanted to mention before we get into this

[00:02:30] week's episode that I forgot to talk about last time is that Karen and David and I are

[00:02:36] going to visit Lucy and Peter in Scotland. Have we talked about that on the podcast yet?

[00:02:41] Can't remember. You're coming to visit. Yeah, we're coming to visit you and we're staying

[00:02:46] at your house. Oh, right. I'm busy that week. I didn't say when yet. I think we've spoken

[00:02:54] about it briefly, but not since we decided to do a Lister meetup.

[00:02:58] Yay! So we have the date set and the place, the city, but not the venue yet. But we're

[00:03:07] going to meet at an as yet undetermined pub in Glasgow on Wednesday, July 17th. I posted

[00:03:13] that on Facebook and a bunch of people are like, oh yeah, I got to make it there. So

[00:03:17] it seems like people are interested. Yeah, they're gonna like someone's taking the train

[00:03:20] up from London, hopefully. And Jennifer McGinley even had a name of a place in mind. I forgot

[00:03:26] to look it up. I knew Jennifer would have good recs. Yeah. So maybe we'll go there. But

[00:03:31] anyway, if anyone can make it July 17th, they're a blast. I was always sort of nervous about

[00:03:38] having meetups until I actually did it. You know, we used to do them every convention when

[00:03:43] I was at Walker Stucker and they're just really fun. And you know, they're social lubricant

[00:03:50] and we have all these topics ready made to talk about with The Walking Dead and everything.

[00:03:55] So it's really fun. I will put out an event post on Facebook at some point and it'll have

[00:04:01] more details and people can RSVP and we'll just tell more details on the podcast too

[00:04:05] as we get closer. Yeah. And if you're like, oh, I've never been to Scotland, but I've also

[00:04:09] got to go to Edinburgh. Edinburgh is like less than an hour on the train from Glasgow

[00:04:13] and Glasgow's great. So come to Glasgow and then go to Edinburgh the next day. You won't

[00:04:18] regret it, I promise. Yeah, I can't wait. I'm really looking forward to it. Yeah. We're

[00:04:23] going to go to the Isle of Skye and visit my favorite whiskey place, Talisker. We are.

[00:04:31] We're going to go to Loch Tay as well and go and jump in some freezing water, which

[00:04:36] I think will be good for the soul. In July in Scotland, it'll still be freezing. Okay,

[00:04:43] let's get on to The Walking Dead season two, episode nine, Trigger Finger. What did you

[00:04:46] think about this one? Yeah, it's funny. This episode, the one before and the one after

[00:04:51] really run together for me, but particularly this one in episode eight, they feel like

[00:04:56] they could just be one big long episode. So I got a bit confused when we were recording

[00:05:01] on episode eight, not talking about what happens in this episode. I enjoyed it. I liked

[00:05:06] the tension of the gunfight and I think there is some cool character stuff in this, particularly

[00:05:13] quieter moments with like Carol and Daryl and Andrea. It's a real turning point episode

[00:05:20] for how I felt about Laurie. Like she goes kind of full Lady Macbeth in this episode

[00:05:26] and I'm still not sure quite how I feel about that. And there's actually a line in the script

[00:05:32] don't understand and I was hoping you would have clarity on, but I can talk about that

[00:05:35] when we get to our points. Okay, cool. Yeah, I think Karen and I talked about the Macbeth

[00:05:43] thing back in the day too. It's clearly that's what they had in mind when they staged that

[00:05:50] scene with her whispering in his ear, kill Shane. It's so OTT like I was watching it

[00:05:56] and I was like, oh the reason this sticks out is because it really does suddenly go

[00:06:01] like he wants what's yours. He takes something his and I'm like whoa. Cause Laurie's usually

[00:06:06] quite you know she's a bit whingy and a bit like, get off me. Why are you on me? Get off

[00:06:12] me Gollum. You're telling me to kill Shane? Shh shh shh. What the fuck's wrong with you

[00:06:17] women? I thought the episode had the best part up front and then you know it's weird

[00:06:28] because it's feeling very soap opera-y to me right now. And not like extreme soap but

[00:06:37] so I shouldn't have said very. It's feeling soap opera to me I guess. Yeah. And so like

[00:06:44] I like character drama but I think the thing is that Darabont is a film director. I think

[00:06:53] this is the only show he ever did and so he structured it like a 12 hour movie basically

[00:06:58] but there's not a lot of twists and turns. There's some but not a lot. It's not that complicated

[00:07:04] and so in order to fill that out they had to have a lot of interpersonal conflicts and things

[00:07:09] and a lot of time with soaps because they had five episodes a day they had to sort of

[00:07:15] manufacture a lot of drama in places where people could if they just chilled out a little bit like

[00:07:21] normal people do right then it wouldn't be so dramatic. And so it feels a little bit

[00:07:26] forced at times and and so like I was okay with that at first but I'm remembering why

[00:07:34] season two wasn't one of my favorites because it just feels like it's repetition and it is

[00:07:38] intensifying but it's the same Shane story is the same the whole time like he's just getting

[00:07:44] more and more of a hothead and his way is the right way for 12 13 hours you know. So I look

[00:07:51] back on these episodes nostalgically. I did enjoy it. I very even the even the second half but I

[00:07:55] still prefer I think the Angela Kang era and but I remember watching this first time being like oh

[00:08:03] we're finally getting some zombies because that was way more on my mind back then and even now

[00:08:07] it's cool. I think the zombie stuff in this episode is very cool with Laurie and

[00:08:11] the stuff during the shootout I loved. So that's my thoughts. Shall we get into our points?

[00:08:20] Let's do it. Um well we can talk about the cold open. I have to say my notes are really

[00:08:25] chronological this week. I don't really have topics so much as like just general thoughts.

[00:08:31] The open with Laurie unconscious and sort of waking up. I love what they do with the camera

[00:08:35] angles and the way that the credits cut out her scream just as a kid and then it like cuts out.

[00:08:41] I'm like that's fun. Yeah it's artful. There was the camera angle of her trying to get because

[00:08:48] the car's on the side trying to get out the top window and the cameras above like rotating I think

[00:08:52] counterclockwise and then later on when Rick is going to check on Glenn after he was shot at and

[00:08:59] they think maybe he was shot he's up against the wall and the camera's above and it's just

[00:09:06] nicely presented. There's a lot of disorienting camera angles even that first shot where we're

[00:09:12] looking up at Rick's gun again opening another episode looking at Rick's the barrel of Rick's

[00:09:18] gun. It's just done incredibly well. I liked as well how disoriented we were with Laurie that

[00:09:27] you don't actually know which way is up when she's in the car. Right. When they're filming

[00:09:34] it and that shot from above you're like where is she? Is she climbing up? Is she kind of coming out?

[00:09:39] Gives you the feeling of having been in a car accident yourself. Yeah and I will give Laurie

[00:09:44] this. She is kind of a badass in this scene in that you know she keeps her cool. She grabs the

[00:09:48] gun. I'm attributing that to the fact that Judith is in this scene. She's obviously a badass now.

[00:09:57] Yeah I loved that and I loved the kind of Mouth of Sauron-esque zombie getting its face stuck on the

[00:10:03] plate glass as it started trying to go through and eat her. Pushed through. Oh it was so cool.

[00:10:09] Lips pulled back. Oh disgusting but awesome. And yeah Laurie manages to get the gun,

[00:10:18] manages to shoot Zed right in the head. She copes with the surprise Zed. She manages to

[00:10:23] kind of nut it with a wheel trim and she does essentially save herself. Like Shane comes to

[00:10:29] get her but I think you know I think she had it. He didn't save her. He just found her.

[00:10:35] Just found her on the road. So yeah but the way she is later in the episode there is a line that

[00:10:42] really confuses me where Shane and Laurie are having heart-to-heart and it gets very heated

[00:10:50] and she calls his bluff by telling him that she told Rick about the baby and Shane actually looks

[00:10:55] quite ashamed. He's like you tell him it was a mistake. Tell him you thought you were a widow

[00:10:59] and she's like basically yes. He talks about what we had. It was real. It was a long time coming.

[00:11:04] Laurie says it wasn't and then he talks longer and says like it was the one good thing. The

[00:11:09] world was falling apart. We hid each other. He says all that to her and then she says

[00:11:13] you know it's true. No he said that. Who said that? Shane said that. But his mouth isn't moving

[00:11:22] when someone says you know it's true. Is he a fucking ventriloquist? Because I really thought

[00:11:27] it was Laurie that said it at the very end of the scene. He says it was the one good thing.

[00:11:31] There's silence and then it's true. It really sounded like her. Could listeners write in about

[00:11:36] this because it's going to bug me otherwise. I really thought it was her because if it's her

[00:11:41] it changes everything. It doesn't change everything. It just makes it a bit more nuanced I guess.

[00:11:49] Hold on let me call it up here. Okay here it goes. It was the one good thing. You know it's true.

[00:12:04] Yeah. It's her! No it's him. I saw his mouth move. His mouth did not move. Yes it did.

[00:12:11] It fucking did. He said you know it's true. Okay well I see it moving and I hear his voice

[00:12:16] and it makes sense that it's his dialogue. Yeah okay but I still don't think it's my food. Maybe

[00:12:22] I'm... it's been a long week. Anyway. He's just like and you know it's true. Like that. I don't

[00:12:26] know why you did it that way. I can't say hang on. You know it's true. It can't be. Anyway okay

[00:12:32] cool whatever. What have you got about Laurie? Well first off I was glad to get an episode

[00:12:43] with zombies and it felt like a zombie movie and we didn't mention it last time but I think there

[00:12:47] were only two zeds in the last episode. One was Beth and Maggie's mom grabbing at Beth

[00:12:53] and the other one was the one that Laurie ran into so that was very short. Yeah not a lot of

[00:12:59] zombie action at all. But Laurie... first off I'm not super clear on what the point was of having

[00:13:10] Laurie go off to get Rick and get in a car accident. Was it just for some thrills? Because

[00:13:16] that was worth it for me. I love this scene but maybe it was just to have Shane go and get her

[00:13:22] and then lie to her about Rick just to have... I don't know. To draw them to this conclusion

[00:13:27] about him lying. Yeah well it was also a way to get the baby secret out. Yeah but yeah I was

[00:13:33] thinking that too but they could have just... I mean because they just said it in front of everybody

[00:13:38] they could have just had that without this whole thing. But anyway yeah all the things you talked

[00:13:45] about I loved. I think it is good that like she's trying to get out but she can't and then she pulls

[00:13:51] some something off the car like a gear shifter, a blinker or something and stabs it in the eye.

[00:13:57] That was badass and it was kind of like how we will end up seeing people kill Zeds over the years

[00:14:07] in this show stick them with something in their head. And then when she gets out and it feels

[00:14:13] safe for a second and you've just been hearing that one zombie go... and she gets out and then

[00:14:19] you see the one quietly stumble around the back of the car and she can't see it for a second.

[00:14:23] You're like look out that was such a great little moment and then she sees it and kicks its legs

[00:14:28] out from under it then she's crawling away and it's grasping for her and then yeah she hits it

[00:14:32] with that like hubcap or whatever and then yeah she sees the gun and just nails it right between

[00:14:37] the eyes. That was a great sequence and I think Lori deserves credit for all that. She handled

[00:14:43] that really well. Yeah I agree. Especially early on when people have not been that great with the

[00:14:51] zombies. Yeah. Maybe she maybe Sophia would still be alive if if Lori had been the one to go after

[00:14:57] her who knows. Oh who's to say? Okay my first point is foreshadowing or at least things that make me

[00:15:07] think of future developments in the series. I noticed I'm really glad you have a lot of these.

[00:15:12] Yeah you can jump into that one is one that Lori stabbing that Zed through the eyes a preview of

[00:15:18] how they'll kill so many more in the series. We thought Glenn could be dead in this episode for a

[00:15:25] second but he was hiding behind a dumpster. Awful! I was like no he got dumpstered. Seems familiar

[00:15:32] but they handled it quickly which truly people don't get pissed off by that.

[00:15:37] We didn't have to wait two episodes. Carl is asking about the baby you know when he finds out

[00:15:43] it's a boy or a girl and Lori says we won't know until it's born and that just made me think of

[00:15:47] when it is born when Judith's born. Because she won't know. Carl's there. Yeah and it's like it's

[00:15:53] right now it's a happy thing to think about but it doesn't end up so happy when it happens. Countdown

[00:15:57] to disaster really isn't it? Yeah at least at least Judith's safe. It's interesting they're

[00:16:05] about to cut Randall's leg off and Herschel's kind of directing them how to go about it and

[00:16:10] then later Herschel loses his leg. I thought that was really cool like Rick clearly remembered the

[00:16:16] advice. Oh yeah right yeah. Because Rick does it because Rick says is there a hatchet and then

[00:16:21] Herschel says well where I'm gonna cut is I didn't listen to the medical insurance but it's like oh

[00:16:27] yeah Rick's gonna have to do that quite soon. Andrea is this is going to happen very soon but

[00:16:36] Andrea being really supportive with Maggie you know and Beth she's like you just be strong for

[00:16:42] her and she'll be okay it's like oh way to go Andrea and then the next episode or two she's

[00:16:47] like helping Beth commit suicide when she was supposed to be watching her. Yeah yeah. That's

[00:16:53] what made me hate Andrea I remember. Right. Herschel sits down with Beth and pulls out his

[00:17:01] pocket watch I guess he's just keeping track of time. One of the show icons. No he's doing her

[00:17:08] blood pressure. Okay yes and so I looked up the trajectory of that watch he I remembered he gave

[00:17:16] it to Glenn as a show of acceptance right accepting him into the family with Maggie and everything.

[00:17:22] After Glenn died Maggie put it on his grave and then I guess Gregory stole it for some reason

[00:17:28] but Maggie got it back and she gave it to Enid but then Enid later gave it back to Maggie

[00:17:33] and Maggie has it still in Dead City at least from what I read which is like five years after

[00:17:38] the end of The Walking Dead so. At least yeah. Still around yeah at least um and then Rick and

[00:17:46] Laurie in the tent this is more foreshadowing that's going to happen soon but just telling him

[00:17:54] basically to kill Shane he later does kill him and maybe her putting that into his head made

[00:18:01] it a little more likely that he would go that route you know. But she doesn't like it when he

[00:18:07] does it. Oh yeah of course it's Laurie. Yeah she's like what did you do and it's like what you told

[00:18:15] him to do. Right oh my god it's like a Alfred Hitchcock episode or something go kill him okay

[00:18:23] I killed him why why did you do that? And then Rick saying I killed two people today because

[00:18:32] of you and Carl and the baby it was going to be me and not them no matter what is just so Rick

[00:18:37] going forward ruthless in the name of the people he cares for and it also made me just aware of how

[00:18:44] he actually loses both of them Laurie and Carl and it's really sad but he still has Judith and

[00:18:50] he has Michonne and RJ so still. And RJ I was looking at Carl's hat in this episode and I was

[00:18:58] like yeah it's so weird that we see Judith and RJ wearing that in future. That's right yeah yeah

[00:19:06] yeah yeah all right that's all I got for that one. All right what have I got?

[00:19:13] Daryl and Carol. Carol I'd forgotten kind of pulls him back into the group she sort of

[00:19:20] I think this is a really cool character beat for Carol which is although her heart's breaking

[00:19:24] because of Sophia and everything that's happened to her she recognizes that

[00:19:30] Daryl's a kind of on a knife edge about going feral again and leaving the group and twice in

[00:19:35] this episode she reaches out to him about pulling back and being angry and she really sees that what

[00:19:41] he's actually going through is anger and hurt about Sophia. And there's this scene with them

[00:19:47] that I think is really interesting where Daryl's actually super fucking mean to her like really

[00:19:52] unpleasant. Yeah he says like the cruelest possible thing you could say to a mother that just lost

[00:19:58] her daughter it's your fault. Yeah he also called Laurie a dumb bitch which is not the

[00:20:03] nicest thing to call her. He's emotionally distancing himself from everyone. He's got

[00:20:08] some Daryl sass he talks about Carol being a piece of work ain't you a peach. I've written

[00:20:14] that it's a real gone get scene where you're like pushing the dog away because you love it so much

[00:20:19] and you just want it to be safe. And I think the thing that kind of diffuses it is really sad in a

[00:20:24] way. So she finds him in this kind of feral campsite with the squirrels in his ears and she

[00:20:31] lets him really take out his heart and says go ahead because she knows what it's really about.

[00:20:36] But there's a point where he gets too close and she flinches because it's obviously instinctive

[00:20:40] because of Ed's and his violence towards her. And I don't think Daryl was ever going to hit her.

[00:20:45] But I think that that moment where she's scared actually takes him down from what he's being in

[00:20:51] that moment which is pretty monstrous. And then the next day he does come in and participate with

[00:20:56] the group again and that clearly means a lot to her. And you see her smile. So yeah I like that.

[00:21:03] It's good. I forgot how well they built up Carol and Daryl's relationship.

[00:21:06] CB I know. And now we're gonna go into Daryl Dixon,

[00:21:11] The Book of Carol. And I think the Walking Dead YouTube or maybe on Twitter or something they

[00:21:18] recently posted a clip of the Cherokee Rose episode just showing reminding us of the

[00:21:25] beginnings of their relationship and how far back it went in preparation for you know The Book of

[00:21:30] Carol. I just yeah it's so the two of them just kind of really creep up on you in this season

[00:21:37] that I think it's I don't know they're two of my favorite characters to watch in the rewatch seeing

[00:21:42] where they knowing where they get to and how so much of where they get to is about that relationship

[00:21:49] because like obviously Rick goes to interesting places so does Maggie. But I feel like with Daryl

[00:21:54] and Carol so much of it is about how they relate to one another in that relationship being the

[00:21:58] constant thing between the two of them. And it's just really powerful. Like I just think it makes

[00:22:03] them both incredibly compelling to watch. And I think what Carol does in this episode is really

[00:22:10] a key point for Daryl going forward that she doesn't let him fold out because I don't think

[00:22:14] anyone else in the group really would care as much as Carol does at that point.

[00:22:17] Paul No and she cares because she is connected to him but also well because he's the only one

[00:22:25] she's connected to and she just lost her daughter so she doesn't want to lose him too. So it's for

[00:22:29] her own personal reasons but also as well as just knowing him and how he is and what he needs.

[00:22:35] And it's also really funny that with Daryl it's all just there under the surface like within

[00:22:39] seconds he's like you think this is about my dad? You think this is about my dad and shit? And I'm

[00:22:42] like oh my god. Yes clearly it's about your dad. I wasn't gonna think that but now that you say it.

[00:22:49] Carol's like I was just coming to ask you for dinner but now you're yelling about my dad.

[00:22:56] Just gonna ask you to hang your squirrels somewhere else.

[00:22:59] You said he came back around at the end? What happened? I think I might have missed that.

[00:23:07] You said he like came back into the group or something at the end?

[00:23:10] Or did I miss understand?

[00:23:11] Yes at the end he comes in for the discussion about Randall.

[00:23:15] Okay so you think that the way Carol handled that helped him?

[00:23:20] Yeah he walks into the room to be part of that discussion and you see they shoot it

[00:23:24] so that you see Carol kind of acknowledging that and him acknowledging her. And I think that's him

[00:23:29] saying okay I'm going to be part of this group now. As well as wearing a shirt. I still find

[00:23:34] it funny when Daryl's wearing like a button down which he does in this episode. I'm like

[00:23:38] doesn't look like him but okay.

[00:23:40] Because yeah I think everything you said is totally right on about this exchange and these

[00:23:46] two characters and that she understood where he was coming from and she handled it in just the

[00:23:51] right way to help him feel safe to express himself and still be a part of the group and all that.

[00:23:56] But in the moment I'm just because I always talk about how I try to differentiate how I

[00:24:01] respond to these situations emotionally and then from a storytelling level. Storytelling level I

[00:24:06] think it's brilliant. Emotionally I was like fuck you Daryl you're such a big baby.

[00:24:09] I know.

[00:24:10] Like come on you're mean. I wouldn't have been as I that's not how I handle that kind of a thing

[00:24:16] and I wish I was more like Carol but I just lash out and then later on we both go sorry.

[00:24:24] And we're looking at it from the perspective of knowing that like

[00:24:27] they have 14 years of this really rich friendship but at the time it's just like

[00:24:31] why is she wasting her time with this asshole?

[00:24:33] Yeah.

[00:24:33] Like he's really…

[00:24:33] Fuck off buddy.

[00:24:34] Yeah like you can't talk to people like that.

[00:24:37] Yeah yeah especially I mean it's the worst like she just lost her daughter and he's like

[00:24:41] you if you had just paid more attention to her she would be still here. Which come on

[00:24:45] they were attacked by a horde of zeds but he's just coming from a reactive emotional place and

[00:24:50] he doesn't really mean it.

[00:24:52] He's also voicing some of the things that they're probably all thinking including Carol

[00:24:57] which is that when something horrible happens you go over the things and go if only this had

[00:25:01] happened if only this had happened but he's using it in a really malicious way here and it's not okay

[00:25:06] and you think it don't say it you know.

[00:25:09] I mean I've been going down or I go down these rabbit holes on YouTube watching different types

[00:25:15] of videos and lately I've been watching people who have Tourette's syndrome but it's…

[00:25:19] Interesting.

[00:25:20] There's only like 10 percent of people who have Tourette's have the type where you actually say

[00:25:25] like curse words and stuff and there's different forms some is how you can do inappropriate gestures

[00:25:33] but also words and it's really fascinating because they will say things like you know

[00:25:40] the worst thing you could say racial things and just like it is something that's relevant

[00:25:47] to the situation like I saw this one woman who's on YouTube that has Tourette's was

[00:25:55] collaborating with this other YouTuber and when she got up to walk her to the other part of the

[00:26:00] room she just goes where's your butt like that you know and the girl's like oh that one hits

[00:26:05] close to home and she's like has no control over it and she's like the woman with Tourette's is

[00:26:10] super sweet but she'll say the most vile things and so there's some part of her brain that

[00:26:15] understands that this is the inappropriate thing to say right now even if she's not really feeling

[00:26:20] it or it's not what she would ever want to say you know and so I think sometimes when we have

[00:26:26] arguments like this which is why I'm bringing this up that that kind of stuff can come out

[00:26:31] even though it's not really how we feel it's just something that we know is the worst thing

[00:26:38] right now you know and so we're lashing out and so it comes out you know I have a bad

[00:26:43] verbal trigger finger for saying things like that in arguments I'm a horrible person to

[00:26:47] have an argument with and you're so clever I will see it's horrible and I always regret it

[00:26:54] and I'm always like oh no I'm really sorry she said that but yeah it's not great it's not great

[00:27:00] but it's interesting Daryl was a lot more like he was when we first met him in season one I

[00:27:05] forgot that he got like that again I thought it was just season one because I don't remember him

[00:27:09] maybe we'll see but I don't remember him getting just losing it like that coming I mean he's

[00:27:15] always gruff and he yells at people but not like this where he's just so vicious maybe maybe I think

[00:27:21] I think Daryl's big shift comes when Shane dies because I think it opens up that

[00:27:28] I don't think Daryl's ever going to get to be his full self when Shane is there because I don't

[00:27:32] think Shane I don't think Shane ever bothers to look beyond the surface with Daryl whereas I think

[00:27:37] Rick does but I think as long as Shane is there there's no space for Daryl to be the person he is

[00:27:44] or the person that he can be as his best self so for me I think season two we still have slightly

[00:27:50] feral Daryl but I think in season three we start to see the shift and then it's like his relationship

[00:27:55] with Judith and then in season four you see when they start bringing people into the prison

[00:28:00] he's this figure of respect like that little dorky kid saying like oh Mr. Dixon can I shake your hand

[00:28:05] like that's that's kind of the shift and like Carol's like I knew you before you were famous

[00:28:11] and it's having that esteem from other people that I think starts to pivot him into being

[00:28:16] the character that we see en français in Paris

[00:28:20] the cultured man who likes Jim Morrison you know

[00:28:27] right yeah yep he's a pillar of the community and a hero and all that

[00:28:32] oh yeah he's just stand-up guy stand-up guy never get cancelled good thing Daryl didn't

[00:28:36] have twitter he'd get cancelled yeah man I mean we've said it like I think the zombie apocalypse

[00:28:43] was good for him as for his personal growth anyway yeah okay my next one is Randall and his group

[00:28:53] and fucking Randall man Randall here we go into Randall territory and the introduction of Randall

[00:29:01] I feel like is set up in a way so that it can be a moral debate for us the audience something

[00:29:09] The Walking Dead does so well he's such a dweeb as well that's part of it you know

[00:29:17] yeah he's a kid and I think in order to set this up as a debate you have to make it reasonable to

[00:29:23] take either side of the debate for the audience you know and some people naturally go to one

[00:29:28] side and some do the other and some more in the middle um so I have the argument at least we'll

[00:29:33] be talking about this more in the next couple episodes but right now argument for F.U. Randall

[00:29:38] and argument for helping Randall so for F.U. Randall he's part of part of a group that just

[00:29:44] had a shout out a shootout with Rick and Herschel and Glenn and so whatever this group is like

[00:29:51] they're enemies now yeah um and as Andrea says to Shane if he finds his people and leads them here

[00:29:56] we'll have a war on our hands which is a good we are we know they're desperate to stay on the farm

[00:30:01] you know they need they're looking for something um we know he's associated with Dave and Tony who

[00:30:07] are clearly dangerous and desperate Tony at least just seems like an unhinged kind of a bad guy

[00:30:12] pissing and asking if they have any coups which we didn't talk about last week but it was

[00:30:16] like clearly like a huge giant red flag awful yeah um and Glenn is are even arguing to leave

[00:30:24] Randall he says he was just shooting at us and this place is crawling with walkers and I have

[00:30:28] to admit because I've been on Randall's side if you listen to the podcasts before but in this moment

[00:30:34] I was like that is a good point he was just shooting at them and he's stuck there and walkers

[00:30:38] are coming and as much as I've argued for not killing Randall right now in this situation where

[00:30:43] their their lives are all in the line there is a part of me that's like hmm maybe you just leave

[00:30:47] him there and get the fuck out of there you know well at one point is it Herschel or Glenn says it's

[00:30:52] cruel or something like well he yeah Herschel's like just kill him let's finish him off yeah yeah

[00:30:59] and Shane spent a lot of the season being mad that anyone was allowing Zeds to be in this barn

[00:31:04] endangering them and they take care of it and then Herschel and Rick bring home this dude from

[00:31:09] a group of guys they were fighting with I'm like I don't believe Shane for me like what the fuck are

[00:31:14] you guys yeah so argument for helping Randall as Rick keeps saying he's just a kid and I love the

[00:31:25] way the episode keeps it unclear who his crew is they don't show them close up I think they're

[00:31:33] keeping them kind of mysterious by design so that we will not just take the side of fuck him

[00:31:40] they don't necessarily nothing they say seems bad I don't think they say we don't want any trouble

[00:31:45] we're just looking for our friends and then they find out these strangers killed their friends and

[00:31:49] they get hostile but that seems like understandable we just see them outside not in focus we hear them

[00:31:57] talking the one guy shoots Glenn and I mean shoots at Glenn and Herschel shoots him and

[00:32:04] he falls screaming but still no close-ups always far away we don't really see his face

[00:32:09] we know that Dave and Tony were bad but Rick and crew had Merle and Shane who's like debatable even

[00:32:19] Daryl at least at first more Merle and Shane though so just because they had a couple of guys

[00:32:24] like that didn't mean the whole group was like that so maybe Tony and Dave maybe their whole

[00:32:29] group isn't when the car pulls up with more of their guys and they tell Randall there's

[00:32:33] rumors everywhere we got to go jump and Randall gets stuck and the guy says I gotta go I'm sorry

[00:32:39] and I know it's silly but just the fact that he says sorry yeah I thought that weirdly I was like

[00:32:45] do you know what like he's not just running off he does say so like that says something I don't know

[00:32:49] what he's not like sorry sucker he's like yeah sorry yeah and then um as far as Randall shooting

[00:32:57] at them I mean he his group thinks they've killed some of their people which they did

[00:33:01] and even was he shooting at them I don't know I'd have to go back and look at it

[00:33:05] I don't know if I actually saw that I think he must have been because he was on the roof

[00:33:09] and some of the shots that were coming they couldn't see where they were coming from

[00:33:13] also there was only three of them turned up Randall's one one's dead on the one's

[00:33:21] being shot and is like third guy we don't know what happens to him does he eat so um yeah I think

[00:33:29] it's likely that Randall was shooting at them but I couldn't swear to the third guy that's a good

[00:33:34] point wait didn't Glenn shoot one of the guys coming in the door or something yes I think that

[00:33:42] might have been yeah um but okay so let's assume he was shooting at them I mean they killed

[00:33:49] people from his group he's a kid in a group I think you could see I mean Rick had Glenn going

[00:33:57] in and killing people in their sleep yeah no judgment and I yeah I wasn't doing that in a

[00:34:03] way of like no I know I was shooting at them actually but like no no no I think he was

[00:34:07] but I don't think that's the wrong thing in that situation necessarily um so that's at least with

[00:34:12] the information we have up to now the kind of pros and cons of how to treat him and it's interesting

[00:34:18] how Rick and them handle it they quickly come up with a few ideas leave him put him down I find

[00:34:23] this scene so funny because Randall's like listening to all of it I was like this is awful

[00:34:31] shut up or I'll shoot you that is my favorite shut up or I will shoot you just like

[00:34:37] and he's serious too and they keep being like Glenn's like shut up and Herschel's like shut up

[00:34:43] and Randall's like please don't cut my leg off it's like something out of our amazing improv

[00:34:48] podcast welcome to the apocalypse um it's very funny um yeah and they're getting ready to chop

[00:34:53] his leg off get those two sticks up and then the zombies come and they just fuck it and pull his

[00:34:58] leg up from the spike and by the way like that spike looked like it went right through his uh

[00:35:04] not femur tibia tibia tibia the big bone in your leg like right like it was thicker than the bone

[00:35:12] so it seems like it would have just shattered it and Herschel's like oh he'll be up and around in

[00:35:16] a couple weeks yeah no I've tied up the calf as best I could I'm like maybe don't be drunk when

[00:35:21] you're doing this Herschel like maybe you would make better judgment calls I don't know but yeah

[00:35:25] but they blindfold him and take him back to treat him and then they plan to

[00:35:29] take him out and drop him off so that's where that's where we're left I love t-dog

[00:35:35] shouting who is that about no who is it who the hell is that in the car it really cracked me up

[00:35:40] and then uh Glenn says that's Randall yeah and everyone's just like and this is uh what's his

[00:35:49] name uh I forgot his name but he was uh mrs Maisel's wife and I mean wife husband yeah

[00:35:58] oh my god so he was god he's young here yeah he's really young what the hell's uh Michael

[00:36:04] Ziegen never liked that show but I recognize him from the couple of episodes I did watch

[00:36:09] I remember thinking he looked familiar because I only watched like two or three episodes too

[00:36:12] and I'm like that's Randall there's a few actors over the rewatch who were going to be like oh

[00:36:18] yeah they went on to do I always remember the guy who was really big in Gotham but had that

[00:36:23] tiny bit part of Sam was it Sam at the end of season five who gets killed at Terminus

[00:36:28] and it was Robin Lloyd Taylor Robin Lloyd Taylor yeah uh-huh yeah I was always like oh that's

[00:36:34] fun the penguin yeah um so Randall yeah I think this whole episode is like one big

[00:36:42] trolley problem of killing people to save people and I don't think there's an easy answer with

[00:36:47] the Randall thing which I think is why it's still quite an irritating debate gears on because there

[00:36:54] you can argue it either way to me it is irritating um not as bad as Negan but yeah

[00:37:01] I'm not like because now we're going into that and I'm curious how it's going to hit me now

[00:37:06] because I felt so strongly about it back then but I also remember just being irritated by it

[00:37:12] yeah I okay so something I noticed and it kind of relates to Randall as well

[00:37:16] is the way Glenn is in the situation so Glenn is frustrated and he whispers why won't they leave

[00:37:22] and then Herschel asks him would you like and that's I think that's very humanizing because

[00:37:26] it's that thing about um being loyal to your people and I think that humanizes them a bit

[00:37:32] and being empathetic to understanding something from someone else's perspective or she Glenn's

[00:37:37] just like go away but Herschel's like well what if we were outside and our and our friends were

[00:37:42] in here and we thought they might somebody might have killed him would we just leave no Herschel's

[00:37:46] really like getting the measure of glad and kind of testing him a bit in this episode and not in a

[00:37:50] mean way but he's you know yeah this little girl possible son-in-law yeah um but the other thing

[00:37:57] that I'd completely forgotten or hadn't realized is when they come to open the door Rick is ready

[00:38:02] to just shoot and when the door starts to open Glenn throws himself in front of the door because

[00:38:07] he doesn't want people to get shot and I'm just like oh that's such a generous impulse that he's

[00:38:13] like throwing himself in front yeah I don't but I was just like why has he done that and I'm like oh

[00:38:17] it's because he's scared and he doesn't want this to escalate more and he can see that Rick is ready

[00:38:22] to just shoot I do think watching it now I'm like Glenn you shouldn't have done that because poor

[00:38:27] Randall's about to suffer a lot more because of what you've just done than if they just come in

[00:38:32] and gotten shot straight away but I think it was interesting to see Glenn in this episode just be

[00:38:37] so young like almost like Randall like like they're similar ages they're just on different sides of

[00:38:43] the conflict and also really stuck struck me I just the way Glenn is acting so uh

[00:38:52] emotionally vulnerable and impacted and kind of naive at times and struggling and also uh

[00:39:01] even now they're like Glenn go you go uh try to get the car and I'll cover you it's like oh here

[00:39:07] we go again we're sending this kid into the heart of danger this is like the worst one people shooting

[00:39:11] at us you know it's worse than the well zombie even maybe I don't know those are both pretty

[00:39:15] bad but um anyway and kind of being the butt of jokes and stuff and I think Steven Yeun I just

[00:39:22] feel like he had a his whole career as a reaction against this I that's not me yeah I'm gonna play

[00:39:28] all these different types of characters so you'll know that I you know I have range but also

[00:39:34] like I'm a complicated person and I'm not this like goofy super positive do-gooder all the time

[00:39:40] we were um in the car yesterday the day before and uh on randomly on shuffle came that is an

[00:39:47] incubus drive that he sings in beef no one never tomorrow and I was like oh I like the Steven

[00:39:54] Yeun version better and then I just started thinking about how great beef was and I encourage

[00:39:58] all of you if you've not watched beef yeah pause this podcast much different character go watch

[00:40:03] beef enjoy it and then come back and do the rewatch with us come back and listen to the episode we did

[00:40:09] on beef and then come back to the rewatch oh so good um and yeah I thought the the Glenn of it all

[00:40:16] and his instinct to kind of try and de-escalate was really really touching I guess I'm kind of

[00:40:21] talking about Glenn now in relation to Randall but um that's right yeah I mean yeah like Rick

[00:40:29] he they're like anybody somebody in there it was a little silly because there's like two inches

[00:40:35] separating them and he just pushed the door closed and wouldn't let them in and they're

[00:40:39] quiet and then Rick's like he they drew on us and Herschel's like why did you say anything

[00:40:45] and then but what are they gonna do and then they're like is are they alive or is Tony and

[00:40:50] Dave alive and maybe Rick should have said they left at least give it a shot or it's a me Tony

[00:41:00] I don't want you to see me it's me Dave they're like oh cool guys we'll be back soon okay and

[00:41:08] they're like just go on without us I'm convinced we're having some drinks we met some cool people

[00:41:16] okay go away though they're like wow Tony sounds really drunk we're like yeah yeah yeah no but I

[00:41:22] mean I mean I don't know there's probably nothing he could do but I was just like it wasn't the

[00:41:26] right thing to be honest no they're dead they drew on us we had no choice but he had to say something

[00:41:32] yeah he's I viewed this as like he probably did a module in hostage negotiation or de-escalation

[00:41:38] like 10 years ago on a career progression day and was like I think I'm supposed to like

[00:41:44] de-escalate this somehow um he does try he appeals to their better natures but obviously it's not

[00:41:50] it's not gonna work um and I do feel like Herschel feels like he should be wearing an I was stupid

[00:41:55] t-shirt like two times over in this episode um I loved we were talking about um Rick and Herschel

[00:42:04] is this kind of father son relationship and it's interesting that Rick's kind of sassiness with

[00:42:09] Herschel continues in this episode he's like it would have helped if you'd come to gun training

[00:42:13] and Herschel I love it he's like I can't shoot I just don't like to and he's a good shot in fact

[00:42:19] did you not get shot by Herschel I've gotten shot many times yeah with this magic shotgun yeah

[00:42:26] it's and yeah I like that I liked Scott Wilson a lot more I'd forgotten how much more I liked

[00:42:30] Herschel after his descent back into alcoholism and despair I'm like oh there's our dude yeah

[00:42:38] yeah he's back now and and the way that he stood up to Shane yeah you know oh this is my farm

[00:42:45] and I don't want you here but they convinced me to have you here but you just need to shut up

[00:42:53] and he does he doesn't say anything I'm like he does yeah because Shane I feel like there's a

[00:42:57] little boy in there yeah degree you know there really is there really is and I think

[00:43:03] yeah the the scene with Rick negotiating what we're that we were talking about I love that

[00:43:07] he's like let's chalk this up to what it was wrong place wrong bang gunshot it's all hell breaks loose

[00:43:14] so good and Herschel slides Glenn a gun which I think is nice yeah our future son-in-law ironically

[00:43:19] you know the dudes outside say if you could help us not get killed we'd appreciate it I'm like well

[00:43:24] kind of the opposite yeah he and he said uh there's a bunch of corpses out here or something

[00:43:29] which I thought was great good lines in this one I gotta give it that um I just mentioning that

[00:43:37] there's a little boy in Shane I was like yeah Darrell too at least now and anybody else I mean

[00:43:44] Glenn is a kid but he's growing up Rick I don't think that way of like a little boy neither Dale

[00:43:52] or Herschel or even T-dog necessarily no I think part of it is to do with parenting like you get

[00:44:00] the sense that Darrell and Shane both had fucked up parent dynamics and just different people are

[00:44:05] different yeah yeah but I think that is one thing about Darrell part of is just that he lives a long

[00:44:11] time but he loses that to a degree anyway he becomes more of a more of a man if I mean he has

[00:44:18] everyone keeps fucking giving him their children to look after that's right that'll do it he's

[00:44:23] essentially the foster care system in the apocalypse like he's got no choice like

[00:44:29] I have no time for me anymore dog no time for me I can't go hunting can't do the shit I like

[00:44:37] just gotta make sure RJ's had his fucking dinner like yeah okay um but it's funny because I think

[00:44:42] in this episode you see Glenn struggling with growing up in the sense of like he gets so I

[00:44:49] thought this was really interesting about masculinity actually and how Glenn feels so

[00:44:54] emasculated by what's happened you know he says to Maggie your dad saved my life today and Rick

[00:44:58] saved us both and I froze you know I had to stay alive and he's angry he describes it as being

[00:45:04] selfish but I wonder if there's a bit of him that sees it as being a bit cowardly as well oh yeah

[00:45:09] I think he does yeah because he wasn't there for Rick and um and Maggie was though actually

[00:45:16] totally helped yeah and Maggie like loves him she loves it he's like I thought of you as the

[00:45:21] bullet hit the wall you can just see she's like heart eyes emoji she's like oh did you

[00:45:25] I don't think you're getting what I'm saying I don't like this she like goes in for a passionate

[00:45:30] smooch and then he walks out and you know what Maggie looks bewildered and I don't blame her

[00:45:34] I'm like what a day what day for Maggie I like him even more when he walked away by the way oh

[00:45:37] I know right um but it was I remembered when I came into this episode I was like Glenn

[00:45:43] struggles a lot with what happens here and I was like waiting for it to be like something really

[00:45:48] cowardly and I'm like not really I think we described it of sitting watching it with Peter

[00:45:52] and we're like Glenn's just acting like a normal human in this situation which is I'm in shock

[00:45:56] and he needs a bit of a pep talk from Rick who comes in oh yeah big dumpster brother and is

[00:46:01] like see it's gonna be okay you know yeah I actually liked it more when it was just that

[00:46:06] like yeah you're in a situation where there's a firefight you've never had anything like that

[00:46:11] happen before there's fucking deliver pizzas of course you might freak out right and and and even

[00:46:17] it was only just for a second and then he got back into it and that's human and I like that but then

[00:46:21] when they made it oh I was worried that I you would lose me and be hurt and I didn't want to

[00:46:27] hurt you and I'm like okay this is the soap opera part to me yeah yeah it's very angsty I'm like oh

[00:46:33] I can tell that you probably did listen to incubus like that makes sense

[00:46:40] okay my turn yeah so you're talking about masculinity and things around that I had a

[00:46:46] point about Shane oh yeah I it's interesting to me that the show has had two kind of main

[00:46:53] antagonists so far Merle and Shane and they're both people who were part of the group and just

[00:46:58] kind of crumbled under the pressure of the zombie apocalypse and became people that are hard to deal

[00:47:04] with and I think we've all had people like that in our lives to one degree or another that are just a

[00:47:12] lot you know at work or whatever probably people listening to me right now are thinking of someone

[00:47:18] I am and uh it's you no I'm just kidding it's me it's not you it's me it's not about you uh and

[00:47:28] and when Andrea says you ever consider a lighter touch you know and points out she thinks the

[00:47:33] things that he said are actually correct but it's his presentation that leaves something to be

[00:47:37] desired I'm like yes I don't agree with everything I do agree with some of it like having zombies in

[00:47:43] the barn probably not a great idea but he's just such an a-hole about it and and explosive and uh

[00:47:50] he just is like a bomb going off you know and he's a bull in a china shop and that never goes over

[00:47:55] well and but he he ignores it he's like Dale sent you and then he's interesting I found he says I'll

[00:48:02] always be the odd man out because that feels like he's that's what he has as his identity

[00:48:09] and he's always trying to argue with people that he's right and they should accept him

[00:48:14] but when it comes right down to it he thinks of himself this way as the odd man out and

[00:48:20] I feel like that's something we all do a self-fulfilling prophecy where

[00:48:24] if we refuse to take a look at ourselves and maybe um consider the possibility that we can change

[00:48:33] then we just create our reality reactively with no control over it and it can become a

[00:48:38] self-fulfilling prophecy you know I don't know that's kind of psychobabble but I think

[00:48:43] no I think it's true and I think he um he's clearly lived vicariously through Rick for a

[00:48:51] number of years and when Rick went he had suddenly had the chance to not be the odd man out to have a

[00:48:56] place of belonging and he's infatuated with it he's infatuated with the idea he's infatuated

[00:49:01] with Laurie for a moment he was in heaven yeah there yeah exactly though he was kind of a jerk

[00:49:06] leader and you could tell they probably didn't totally respect him but they knew that he knew

[00:49:12] how to do a lot of things and he was calling the shots and they kind of went along with it you know

[00:49:17] well him sitting at the head of that dinner table eating Patricia's green beans and cussing and

[00:49:23] yeah yeah Dale's completely right when he says you know he doesn't want Rick to come back or

[00:49:27] Herschel because he's got everything he wants here and no one to tell him not to but I mean

[00:49:31] even back at the quarry it just seemed like I don't think Shane could ever hold on to a situation

[00:49:38] like that for too long he would fuck it up and I think um I thought it was interesting that he says

[00:49:44] he should have left with Andrea when he had the chance yeah well I'm just like he's not wrong I

[00:49:50] think you shouldn't like why didn't she say oh well let's go what's he would never leave when

[00:49:55] the baby's on the table yeah but she doesn't know that she does at that point she says

[00:50:02] Laurie's pregnant yeah he says I yeah maybe she's figured it out huh because it wasn't made explicit

[00:50:10] you know he says I should have left with you when I had the chance and from her point of view unless

[00:50:16] she's figured it all out if I was her I'd be like what do you mean we can go now I think she has

[00:50:21] because I think she's a bit frosty towards him after Laurie reveals she's pregnant and I think

[00:50:25] she knows the two of them were hooking up um yeah she's not dumb Andrea she acts like a bit of a

[00:50:31] pick me but she's not dumb she's not super dumb although she did say something dumb in this

[00:50:36] episode which was when they were she's like oh yeah Laurie told me to uh watch after Carl and

[00:50:43] she said she was worried about Rick oh but did she go after him oh she didn't say that she's like

[00:50:49] IDK what do you think was going on shrug um oh my god Carl's like my mom and we're like oh boy

[00:51:00] all right what else um I could go on with Andrea um I thought her checking in on Maggie and Beth

[00:51:07] was interesting because I assume she's thinking about Amy um and her relationship with her sister

[00:51:12] she's really relating to Maggie as an older sister um I thought Lauren Cohen gave a really

[00:51:18] good performance in that scene um the story about Beth as a child and her impression of Emily

[00:51:25] Kinney batting her eyelashes at her dad was very good I thought it was it was a great performance

[00:51:32] but I didn't quite know for sure what the point of the story was was it just I think because

[00:51:39] the story was that she came home from college uh she went out riding Beth went through her stuff

[00:51:44] found birth control got upset threw it in the pond Maggie saw her do that and screamed at her

[00:51:50] and then Sean came out to figure out what's going on found out what it was all about laughed so

[00:51:53] loud that it spooked the horse who got mud all over them and then Herschel's like what the hell

[00:51:57] is going on and Beth said oh we're just waiting daddy so she covered up for Maggie even though

[00:52:01] she was upset and I guess it was like why is it about birth control but I think the point was

[00:52:06] just to talk about happier times with family and now look where we all are you know something like

[00:52:12] that I don't know and I think it's about the age difference between the two of them as well I think

[00:52:16] it's kind of highlighting that Maggie was grown up and that's something that they really focused

[00:52:20] in on with Andrea and Amy was there was a big age difference between the two of them as well so I

[00:52:24] wonder if it's just to highlight the idea that Beth is like the baby um yeah makes sense but it's

[00:52:30] yeah it's cute it's really cute um and I think Andrea I don't know she bugged me in the rest

[00:52:36] of the episode she's bickering with Dale about Shane um she is being a bit of a pick me with Shane

[00:52:43] and kind of sucking up to him about Randall like yeah like Rick's so dumb but um she does make some

[00:52:50] good points about Shane's presentation um and yeah it I thought the the moments with her and

[00:52:57] the greens were really nice um but as you say we know that they're going to take a turn when she

[00:53:03] essentially enables uh Beth to be able to hurt herself quite badly um which is not a cool move

[00:53:09] and she kind of frames it as some sort of philosophical thing which it isn't really

[00:53:12] it's just irresponsible I think so I mean we'll examine it I haven't watched ahead so I haven't

[00:53:18] seen it in 14 years or whatever but um I remember I think some listeners were on her side because

[00:53:25] they want you know if you decide you want to take your life you should be able to do it and I think

[00:53:32] there is some truth to that but I know we'll talk about it when we get to it

[00:53:38] uh I forgot to mention too when about Shane when uh Rick and Lori in the tent and Lori says

[00:53:46] he thinks the baby's his and but no matter what it's yours I think she means even if Shane's the

[00:53:53] biological father I want to be with you and I want you to raise the baby yeah that's how I read that's

[00:53:58] how I read it yeah okay I had a point about soap opera stuff do it I feel like this show it felt

[00:54:07] more soapy to me in early seasons and I think that is because of a a lack of more traditional

[00:54:14] antagonist and be Darabont style of stretching out this story over many episodes so they have to

[00:54:21] come up with drama for it but um so Dale doesn't want Andrea to be with Shane Andrea doesn't want

[00:54:28] Shane to be with Lori Shane doesn't want Lori with Rick and it's just like feels like soap stuff

[00:54:38] to me all that oh yeah and especially Shane obsessing so much over Lori like did you tell

[00:54:45] you told Rick did you tell him it was a mistake and he's all upset he's so upset and I'm like

[00:54:50] what this is your best friend and it's like I don't know I guess the interesting part is that

[00:54:59] he doesn't believe Rick can keep her safe so that's one reason to keep him on this you know

[00:55:06] rather than just letting go of it because if he feels like okay I love her but she's with my

[00:55:11] best friend so I should just let it go but if I do then he won't be able to keep her safe so

[00:55:15] I guess that's what he's really spitting out on and plus yeah because it's the baby is probably

[00:55:20] his which is a very soap opera thing oh it's so soap opera um the whole thing about Glenn having

[00:55:27] a hard time with the idea of being in a relationship and having someone else be

[00:55:35] connected to him and what all the weight that comes with that or whatever it's very hand wringy

[00:55:39] I think yeah and Daryl even Daryl having a hard time dealing on some level felt a little bit

[00:55:47] soapy to me uh I was like everybody's having so much angst and I was trying to figure out

[00:55:53] who is dealing with this the best and the two names I came up with are T-dog but we just don't

[00:56:00] see him that much so maybe he's back in his tent just going oh my god journaling yeah journaling

[00:56:07] today was really hard like talking to Sophia's doll like I'm so glad you're here Sophia like

[00:56:15] but I think um Andrea right now is one of the ones that's maybe dealing with it the best I mean

[00:56:22] yeah she has this attraction to Shane but I don't know she's cool-headed

[00:56:29] she's kind of gone through her trauma hasn't she she's lost the thing that she was most scared of

[00:56:33] it's a good point yeah all right that's enough about that what do you got anything else

[00:56:39] uh I do um the confrontation between Shane and Laurie is really catalyzed by him lying about

[00:56:48] Rick being home uh and him spilling about the baby um which I do sometimes wonder if it was

[00:56:55] deliberate on his part to let that out in front of the whole group um I did I did laugh at the

[00:57:02] interlude where Laurie is sitting with Andrea and Dale um and realizes that they didn't give

[00:57:07] Carl the sex talk and Dale's just like nope I'm not doing that I just thought I would watch a

[00:57:12] minisode of Dale trying to give Carl the sex talk I think that would be hilarious I looked up because

[00:57:18] I have two sons and I and one is um seven and the other one is 12 and I can't remember when I

[00:57:26] talked to Nico the 12 year old about it but I asked chat gpt when do people usually have the

[00:57:33] sex talk basically you know and they said well experts say around eight to ten years old so

[00:57:38] okay depending on maturity level and I think Carl's supposed to be like 10 right or something

[00:57:42] like that yeah yeah I think um there was a couple of things about that scene that kind of made me

[00:57:48] laugh and one was when he said can we name her Sophia I'm like oh god no what terrible terrible

[00:57:53] name don't do that um it's cute that he's excited about being a big brother but I found Shane at the

[00:57:59] door kind of creepy um Andrea's clearly pissed at Shane she's like you know maybe let Laurie have

[00:58:04] some rest um but then he and Laurie obviously get into this conversation that we've already discussed

[00:58:10] but a couple of other things happen in that conversation where she reveals that Rick knows

[00:58:15] about the baby which really taps into Shane's shame Shane you know what I think though is that

[00:58:21] actually what he was upset about is she said I told him she meant about their their relationship

[00:58:27] yeah she told him we had an affair yeah so then when Shane says did you think it or did you say

[00:58:34] it was a mistake I think that meant the two of them you know being together was mistake

[00:58:39] she also brings up Otis at which he admits admits essentially to what he did there which

[00:58:44] is quite a game changer um and yeah it's a pretty hard scene between the two of them but

[00:58:50] it's I don't know I think Laurie isn't right here I think she is trying to do the right things

[00:58:55] oh yeah she's saying no it wasn't right it's not good between us she's being very straightforward

[00:59:02] which she should have when he was about to leave and she said don't leave Shane

[00:59:06] and she didn't make it clear that it's because I want you here for Carl or whatever it was

[00:59:12] and that was mixed signals but now she's not sending mixed signals anymore but it's too late

[00:59:16] it's too late and what she says to Rick in that scene in the tent is true like he's delusional

[00:59:23] he's dangerous he's scaring people he's scaring me I think he killed Otis but she's really laying

[00:59:28] it on thick at this point and when Rick talks about killing those guys I've just written like

[00:59:32] Laurie gets the whore and she's like you killed the living to protect what's yours and I'm like oh

[00:59:36] that's Laurie's kink um and then it kind of goes into some proper as we said Lady Macbeth whispering

[00:59:42] it's weird phrasing to say you killed the living but I think that's because he had said before we

[00:59:47] don't kill the living yeah so now he did you know so that's why she said it that way I think

[00:59:52] I think what also made me sad about the scene is I think this is the last time we'd really see Rick

[00:59:56] and Laurie happy and I don't know that they are happy happy but that kind of easy intimacy of like

[01:00:02] we sound like old people and it's sad because you realize they're not going to be old people together

[01:00:07] and we're only going to see Rick get old yeah and then I think after after this point I think it all

[01:00:15] becomes too fraught and too difficult and by the time she passes away they're barely speaking like

[01:00:21] Rick's that's frozen out completely that's really hard so I think I was kind of wistful watching this

[01:00:27] thinking oh this is one of the last times we'll see this so yeah this is what this is what passes

[01:00:34] for an intimate moment between Rick and Laurie you should kill Shane okay yeah only in the walking

[01:00:39] dead is a happy intimate moment you should kill your best friend have you considered yeah I mean

[01:00:47] I just feel like I don't know if they were ever a great couple maybe I'm wrong about that I wonder

[01:00:54] if listeners agree or disagree about that I think they'd be together too long we've been together

[01:01:01] from before they knew who they were yeah I don't know they they seem like a couple that has a lot

[01:01:07] of problems you know and that doesn't necessarily mean a couple shouldn't be together every couple

[01:01:14] has some problems but to me he's a better match for with Michonne they they lift each other up

[01:01:21] yeah 100% they really they get each other they get the the kind of values that the other has

[01:01:27] and I think that's so important absolutely okay I only had one more quick one it's poor Carl

[01:01:34] because when Carol tells the others that Laurie went into town after talking to Daryl you know

[01:01:40] she tells everybody else Laurie went into town after Rick and Carl's super distraught and I'm

[01:01:44] like of course both your parents left I know and then and and Laurie should have talked to the

[01:01:51] group about that decision maybe somebody else would volunteer and then Shane takes off in the

[01:01:55] Hyundai and Carl's watching and it's like all his parental figures are leaving I know everyone

[01:02:02] and then later Laurie apologizes to Carl I'm sorry I left without telling you I'm like well

[01:02:06] great you're sorry but what's your excuse like I'm sorry but I just I'm you know get ready for that to

[01:02:12] happen again yeah exactly it's like Carl this is gonna happen a lot bear with me just one second

[01:02:18] right and then they they're all critical of Carl for leaving all the time but it's like

[01:02:22] I learned it from watching you mom exactly it's like learned behaviors children imitate what they

[01:02:27] are modeled Laurie why won't he stay in the house I wonder why like yeah right exactly okay notes

[01:02:37] um Maggie being upset about Herschel drinking I can relate to that and it's really hard

[01:02:43] apologized I felt like you should have apologized she was really caught up about it and I felt

[01:02:48] really bad for her in that moment especially when she said you left and I didn't know what to do

[01:02:52] I was like Maggie's so young silence yeah and she's so young here like she's what early 20s and

[01:02:58] I just I don't know I really make me sad I'm sorry you can relate to that that's no fun I did um

[01:03:06] I did love that Herschel like Maggie Kim's running up with this big smile on her face

[01:03:10] and Herschel's like yeah and it's like oh no she's running to Glenn okay I was like that's what you

[01:03:16] get and um I'd forgotten that in these seasons the Walking Dead credits redoes the dead walking

[01:03:24] like it flashes up the dead walking and I'm like oh yeah I always used to like that but it's like

[01:03:29] don't open dead inside yeah don't open dead inside don't dead open inside don't dead um

[01:03:36] and those are my notes I think okay uh we covered most of mine just had a couple that one is that

[01:03:43] poor Emily Kinney just had to lay there with her eyes wide open and do nothing

[01:03:48] and I'm like would her eyes really just be open like not blinking is

[01:03:52] not good for you no you can get hella dry girl um and then last I don't know if this is totally

[01:04:01] related but for some reason I was thinking about how early Walking Dead had seasonal locations more

[01:04:06] or less so season one was the camp at the quarry in Atlanta season two is Herschel's farm season

[01:04:14] three and the first half of four are the prison and then I think the second half of four and the

[01:04:19] first half of five they're just on the move yeah and I remember digging it when they were on the

[01:04:25] road but a lot of listeners were like they need to find another place and they were like anxious

[01:04:29] for that and I'm like because I'm a comic reader I know once they get to Alexandria that's it from

[01:04:34] then on out you better hope you like Alexandria because that's gonna be you that's your lot

[01:04:42] so and then only on The Walking Dead can you shatter your leg bone and then just walk it

[01:04:46] off after a couple weeks yeah a little bit of surgery from your local vet you'll be fine

[01:04:56] like sands through the hourglass so are the days of our lives

[01:05:23] obvious threat to untold numbers of citizens of people it kills get up and kill

[01:05:28] are they slow moving chief yeah they're dead they're all messed up this is a walking deadcast

[01:05:34] news update so just a few things first I want to say I've been watching X-Men 97 on Disney plus

[01:05:45] I've always loved the X-Men I didn't get into the 90s cartoon series which this is a

[01:05:51] continuation of but I binged it because I and it is fantastic I'm loving it it's really good

[01:05:58] and it's getting a lot of praise like this is the Marvel show we needed even though it's animated

[01:06:02] it's it's kind of uh it's really powerful it's a bit melodramatic this shows like a soap opera too

[01:06:09] but um it has Ross Marquand as Professor X so it's Walking Dead related he's such a good voice

[01:06:16] actor yeah yeah yeah so that's that for that I wish I could do a podcast about it actually but

[01:06:22] I don't have time um actor Kim Coates who played Tig if you watch Sons of Anarchy which I didn't

[01:06:29] is I guess going to be the lead bad guy in Dead City season two and uh he was on a I know there's

[01:06:35] a lot of Sons of Anarchy fans out there he was on a podcast with Sons of Anarchy co-creator Kurt

[01:06:41] Sutter and actress Katie Seagal and he said Dead City will be eight episodes instead of six

[01:06:47] that's in season two interesting okay and last uh at a recent fan event of some kind or another

[01:06:54] someone asked JDM if there's any chance of him meeting up with his supernatural co-star Jensen

[01:07:00] Ackles in the Walking Dead universe and he said quote yeah that would be that would just be

[01:07:06] phenomenal to see yeah funny enough we had a conversation a couple weeks ago about it

[01:07:11] I think so I mean I'd love to have him he would love to come and do it sometimes our schedules

[01:07:16] won't quite work out the way we want them to we'd love it to happen I'll tell you that

[01:07:20] so it's not that it's going to but maybe I know I don't I never watch Supernatural but I know

[01:07:24] there's a lot of supernatural things out there too I think Lauren Cohen had a guest spot on it

[01:07:29] at some point as well yeah way back at the start I think yeah and I think people did not like her

[01:07:38] character at all that's what I remember I'm like how could you not like Lauren Cohen but it could

[01:07:43] be a shitty character who knows it's true it's true all right that's it for the news let's get

[01:07:48] on until this Ramones groans and grunts Lucy Tirado says just stay in the house Laurie

[01:07:59] she picked up on that Carl thing too Nathan Eshelman said Glenn was able to avoid being

[01:08:04] shot at the bar by taking cover near a dumpster if only he knew how this trick would come in handy

[01:08:08] several seasons later he learned dumpster smarts Jacob Decker says Herschel with the save on Glenn

[01:08:15] is very badass also much needed that chemistry between the actors in the first six seasons is so

[01:08:20] good really underestimated people will not give The Walking Dead its flares like it deserves

[01:08:25] like this platform thank you all thanks Jacob when you say give it its flowers it's my first thought

[01:08:32] is you want to kill it I know I'm like don't look at them Jacob whatever you do I don't think

[01:08:37] that's what he meant thanks Jacob okay Billy Thompson says hello Jason and Lucy it's Bill

[01:08:41] from England such a good episode this week I think this is a real turning point in the series with the

[01:08:46] characters I think Shane lying to Laurie to get her back to the farm was probably on par with the

[01:08:51] decision to kill Otis well he also lied to her about Rick being for sure dead in the so he's

[01:08:59] a liar you cannot trust him he's a lying liar who lies he says the decision to kill Otis if that was

[01:09:05] the only way to save Carl I definitely don't mind Shane as much this time around although some

[01:09:09] decisions are awful some are absolutely the right ones and I'm happy they chose to keep the character

[01:09:14] on for another season and not follow the comics we do absolutely this is the episode that does it

[01:09:19] with Laurie for me asking Shane to stay and then trying to curse Rick into killing him a few episodes

[01:09:24] later just seems silly that's one way loving the rewatch gets me through my shifts at work so thank

[01:09:31] you both love you guys thanks oh thanks Bill um Andy Fisher says dear JNL thank you again for

[01:09:38] walking us through my favorite television show ever I like this episode a lot emotion conflict

[01:09:43] characters with different thoughts and ideas debating arguing pushing to be heard understood

[01:09:48] and loved the Randall subplot is pretty ace nine conflict number one Daryl versus Carol there's a

[01:09:54] psychological term called a crazy eight in a nutshell the crazy eight pattern is when you try

[01:09:59] to get out of depression by getting angry Daryl was doing this over his sadness and grief about

[01:10:03] the death of Sophia it's heartbreaking to see him turn on Carol but she's wise enough to see what

[01:10:08] he's doing and she loves him through it conflict number two Shane versus Rick this conflict was a

[01:10:14] little dragged out over the two seasons but it's so well written here I can see both points of view

[01:10:19] and so emotional because both characters feel their very survival is at stake toss in the love

[01:10:24] triangle and Shane's craziness stir wow yeah points all said and you're not wrong very good

[01:10:32] Jody Langridge says I feel like this is the episode that made Herschel wake up and realize

[01:10:36] what the world is really like now and how much he needs Rick interesting that head nods towards

[01:10:42] Rick to say yes you did the right thing by eliminating that threat yes important moment

[01:10:48] their time in the bar was almost like they attended a team bonding escape

[01:10:52] that's intense they should model a real one after that oh my god that would be so funny

[01:10:58] this may be the first episode that Herschel refers to the undead as walkers so he is on board now

[01:11:03] another good point I already love his scenes with Glenn telling him to try for the car and he

[01:11:07] he will try and succeed reminds me of all their conversations to come that I love

[01:11:12] when he tells him next season you're like my own son Glenn makes me cry every time

[01:11:16] in my opinion when that dude from the other group drove off and left his injured friend behind it

[01:11:22] tells us everything we need to know about them we don't leave people behind oh hang on unless

[01:11:27] it's Andrea yeah we might end up leaving Andrea behind that's a good point is it weird that scene

[01:11:33] with Randall makes me laugh now no it's hilarious too excited about hacking off a leg he's all is

[01:11:39] that hatchet still in the car rubbing his hands together no I had it then pulls out a knife as

[01:11:45] big as a nail file that that was that's got to be delivered it's like his pocket knife

[01:11:50] will this cut through the bone calm yourself Rick you get your chance next season to do some

[01:11:55] leg hatchet hacking doesn't he just Laurie should have used that hubcap to finish off that walker

[01:12:02] not wasted a bullet and to quote future Rick we might have needed that one later oh come on you

[01:12:08] can't be serious about that yeah you got to use the gun not the hubcap um it's funny though I

[01:12:13] rolled my eyes when Shane just plonks himself at the head of the dinner table like he is in charge

[01:12:19] even though Herschel basically kicked him out in the last episode I loved it when Herschel gave

[01:12:24] him a telling off later on after Shane was being a dick and mouthing off me too it was interesting

[01:12:29] that Shane didn't back chat him never said a word in reply made me think that somewhere deep down

[01:12:34] Shane remembered he should have been more respectful then of course we end the episode

[01:12:38] with olive oil whispering negativity in Rick's ear like the devil doesn't matter how many times

[01:12:43] I re-watch this shit never gets old I love it oh Jodie I love that um Rachel Tateil Edward says

[01:12:50] this re-watch is so fun I'm enjoying parts of the show and characters in ways that I haven't before

[01:12:55] this love triangle for example I 100% don't blame Shane for lying to Laurie but when he talks to her

[01:13:01] later he's gone full psycho totally delusional he tells Laurie he loves her that it was real and he

[01:13:07] actually says it was a long time coming oh my god I didn't catch that yeah he does um Rachel says I

[01:13:13] can't believe I haven't heard that in my other re-watches can we assume that this is proof he

[01:13:17] was totally biding his time before the apocalypse dreaming of a life with Laurie yes so either he

[01:13:22] was delusional then too or there was some chemistry between them that Laurie probably played into a

[01:13:27] little when she was pissed at Rick I can see both of those speculation but yeah maybe

[01:13:33] can we also talk about Laurie's little speech to Rick at the end she says you killed the living

[01:13:37] to protect what's yours Shane thinks I'm his he thinks the baby's his and he says you can't

[01:13:42] protect us that you're gonna get us killed he's dangerous right and he won't stop she might as well

[01:13:47] send them out to the field and tell them to duel over her what is Rick supposed to do with this

[01:13:52] information other than bide his time knowing that he will eventually have to protect what's his from

[01:13:56] Shane even though Laurie is totally right about Shane this speech combined with her eventual

[01:14:01] over-the-top reaction to Rick confiding in her that he killed Shane makes me loathe her even more

[01:14:06] but we'll get there and Daryl sweet Daryl in that intense moment with Carol she sees him for what he

[01:14:12] is essentially a child lashing out because he doesn't know how to handle his feelings she lets

[01:14:17] him do so knowing it's not really about her I'm so excited to watch his evolution more closely as

[01:14:22] well as Beth's actually so much more to come with those two I can't wait well said Rachel

[01:14:28] well said I think one thing and I think um Dina's got a letter coming up I didn't read it but I see

[01:14:34] Daryl oh Daryl with those flashing blue eyes is how it starts so I uh I absolutely agree

[01:14:41] that Carol sees that Daryl's just going through something but also Daryl come on you fucker don't

[01:14:50] be such a dick like you know you you can I mean I guess um maybe you can excuse that behavior for

[01:14:58] when there's a really traumatic situation happening but if that continued on I would just

[01:15:03] say I can't handle this anymore dude you can't be like that or I'm not going to be around you

[01:15:08] it's not okay yeah it's not okay that's what I'm trying to say uh Karen she says I love season two

[01:15:14] for establishing Daryl and Carol's bond for making us understand exactly how Daryl's character

[01:15:19] operates through subtext long before Carol made Lizzie look at the flowers and saved everyone from

[01:15:24] Terminus she displayed her strength by meeting Daryl with compassion and sympathy instead of

[01:15:28] piling on more guilt and shame whose heart didn't smile when Daryl showed up at the group meeting

[01:15:33] in the end I didn't even notice but I'm glad Jason's like was he there I'm glad to hear he was

[01:15:40] there nobody's talking about Maggie's monologue there was a range of emotions for Beth Herschel

[01:15:46] and Glenn all in one story about birth control pills ha more great acting and subtext here tell

[01:15:52] us the subtext I don't know what it was this is how to build character without having to explicitly

[01:15:57] say I am so and so I care about x y and z I wouldn't be surprised if Lauren Cohan auditioned

[01:16:02] with this scene it's so well written and rich I'm not going to touch the Rick Shane Laurie triangle

[01:16:08] or why Glenn distances himself from Maggie I'll leave that to you guys to untangle and we'll be

[01:16:12] debating about Randall in later episodes so thanks for the rewatching coverage it's been a

[01:16:16] while since I last watched this episode oh the camera work and direction was really good here

[01:16:21] no it was some neat long shots and transitions lighting choices and depth of field Karen's a

[01:16:27] photographer so she knows about that yeah she knows her shit huh yep last thing to Jason's

[01:16:31] point about Laurie's car accident and texting while driving there was a report a few months

[01:16:35] ago on NPR and ABC that pedestrian fatalities have increased exponentially since 2009 the U.S.

[01:16:41] has more incidents than the UK for a variety of reasons but one of them is because U.S. cars are

[01:16:45] mostly automatic transmissions versus the UK's manual stick shifts auto transmissions enable

[01:16:50] folks to have a free hand and be distracted by their phones without going into spoilers this

[01:16:55] was a slight question you guys had during the ones who live coverage right and most of all

[01:17:00] U.S. cars conveniently have six jugs of biofuel stored in their backseats too oh wait no this is

[01:17:06] all ones who live spoilers which we won't go into but that's fascinating and horrible to hear

[01:17:12] yeah I'd never thought about manual being an advantage like that but yeah I guess you do

[01:17:18] have to like I struggle driving automatics I'm just so talented at driving I can't drive

[01:17:25] but yeah I tend to if I'm driving on the other side of the road so when I was in Canada or

[01:17:29] in Europe mainland Europe I'll drive an automatic because it's easier than having to do gears with

[01:17:35] my right hand but here I can't do it it's weird because I can drive a stick shift but yeah when

[01:17:41] I'm in England it's weird to have to shift with your other hand yeah it's so strange it's like

[01:17:47] your brain's just like no finally we've got Dina in the emails saying oh Darryl with those flashing

[01:17:55] blue eyes we all see through your bad behavior more importantly Carol sees through it. Carol is

[01:18:00] a limp character through the first two seasons but we've seen her evolution and in hindsight

[01:18:04] this moment is a huge step forward for her although she may see behind his anger this is

[01:18:10] not a beautiful Carol and Darryl forever moment it is terrifying she is a traumatized defenseless

[01:18:15] woman he is pure danger she can't be sure that this belligerent verbally abusive man won't hit

[01:18:20] her yet she refuses to cower. I was 40 when the show aired I don't think Carol was much older

[01:18:27] at the time I didn't think too much about her I was too busy nursing a newborn while watching

[01:18:31] the walking dead note to new mothers watching zombies gnaw on body parts while the newborn

[01:18:35] gnaws on your breast is not a good ponding experience now I'm 53 and see Carol so

[01:18:41] differently by the end of the series Carol is menopausal in western culture as women age

[01:18:46] they can be overlooked while there are strong matriarchs on screen they don't grow alongside

[01:18:50] you a constant reminder to women of a certain age that we don't have to sink into the sofa and

[01:18:55] disappear the Carol and trigger finger is not even close to the grace O'Malley she becomes

[01:19:01] but in this small moment she decides her fate she can't run he'd catch her she can't beg it never

[01:19:06] stopped ed so she chooses to stand her ground lucky for us we get to see all the small moments

[01:19:11] that make her stronger and hopefully we'll start noticing our own small moments that could make us

[01:19:16] stronger my now 13 year old watched trigger finger with me she does not recall her earlier experience

[01:19:23] but she does tend to root for the zeds her only comment about this episode Maggie is a horrible

[01:19:28] sister instead of yammering on about some stupid memory why doesn't she get best some eye drops

[01:19:34] yours from the sofa dina and revin thanks dina that's a great letter god we're not worthy of

[01:19:40] your i know you're so good very cool all right two calls here's colin here's colin oh colin

[01:19:48] hey y'all sorry i missed the party yeah nebraska is a great episode you guys covered that this week

[01:19:54] i hear nebraska's nice it ain't it ain't i've been there a lot i spent years over there i live 15 miles

[01:20:03] from there oh it's not there's nothing there besides the old market and omaha anyway okay i

[01:20:11] re-watched the episode tonight i forgot that glenn doesn't kill anybody for a while

[01:20:18] personal kind of took over i know how to shoot i just don't like to rick really steps up as a

[01:20:24] leader in this episode i i really fucking love it i i think i've only watched this episode twice

[01:20:30] before this rewatch and it's definitely a really good build up to 18 miles out that uh you guys

[01:20:35] will be covering next week that's probably my all-time favorite episode in the first half

[01:20:40] of the series but uh yeah shane accidentally telling everybody that laurie's pregnant he has

[01:20:49] a right to be worried about that because i mean as a man who was kind of you know like a father

[01:20:55] figure to carl for a few months while rick was in the hospital assumed dead um yeah i can see it i

[01:21:02] mean i have two kids one of them is mine and the other one is my girlfriend's and i i feel very

[01:21:07] likewise with that i mean you always feel the uh the need to protect your children and uh yeah it

[01:21:14] was nice that he apologized laurie apologized and then shane goes into his whole tirade about i love

[01:21:20] you laurie whatever i still can't see him as anything besides frank castle it's weird if this

[01:21:27] episode would have been two seasons later they would have left randall there with a bullet in

[01:21:30] his head yeah funny how things change back in the day when the episode first came out i found out

[01:21:36] that uh the actor that plays randall and uh john bernthal acted in a play together no no under what

[01:21:42] play that's been you know 12 13 years ago but uh it's really there's a lot of foreshadowing this

[01:21:49] episode like uh shooting tony in the head after he'd already shot him in the chest um belly i can't

[01:21:55] remember that you have to shoot him in the head because everybody's infected even and then glenn

[01:22:01] just can't stay away from the fucking dumpsters oh my god but anyway i love this episode it was

[01:22:07] definitely a classic anyway love y'all talk to you next week oh yeah actually that's a great

[01:22:14] point because rick's the only one of the group who knows that everyone's infected and he's the

[01:22:19] one who shot tony in the head i had a note to self of like did they both get shot in the head

[01:22:24] i couldn't remember and colin's call just reminded me there and that i'd been wondering about that

[01:22:29] and yeah that makes total sense because i did think when rick was shooting tony i was like god

[01:22:32] that was a lot of bullets but yeah yeah makes sense they didn't i won't you would think um glenn

[01:22:38] would be like why'd you do that he's dead yes trigger finger much we're all going to turn into

[01:22:43] zombies no matter what yep yep uh he mentioned you know shane he understands him i forget exactly

[01:22:50] what colin was saying but about being concerned about the baby because you want to protect your

[01:22:55] children and my first instinct was yeah but it's not his even if it is his but i'm thinking if i

[01:23:00] was shane and you know i i thought rick was probably dead and i had an affair with lori and she was

[01:23:06] pregnant with what was probably my baby even if i thought okay she's back with rick now it's not

[01:23:14] you know i'm not going to be with lori i would still probably want for it to be known that it

[01:23:21] was my baby and to have uh some kind of a presence there you know yeah yeah that's understandable

[01:23:30] all right one more call then we're done here's alex kruger hey y'all alex kruger leaving feedback

[01:23:36] for walking dead revisited trigger finger uh just a real quick aside in reference to last week's show

[01:23:43] um it's interesting the comparison was made between tony and gareth because in the tv show

[01:23:47] once upon a time the actor that plays tony is technically gareth's dad once the final season

[01:23:52] sees the time jump and young henry becomes an adult that's not wow but i thought it was interesting

[01:23:57] i think he means dave the guy who yeah i think so yeah yeah um i like that this episode immediately

[01:24:05] follows up on both of last week's hanging threads so the barroom shooting and lori's crash um say

[01:24:11] what you will about lori's decision making but the way she dispatched those two walkers proves

[01:24:16] she has a good amount of fight in her i guess you could say she has a little ass kicker in her

[01:24:22] sorry couldn't help myself um speaking of lady grimes mcbeth i don't really blame her for being

[01:24:27] furious at shane's blatant lies to get her back but at the same time i understand why shane lied

[01:24:31] to her she shouldn't be the one looking for rick between being pregnant and possibly concussed she

[01:24:36] needed to go back and i guess she wasn't going to listen to reason but man shane really can't

[01:24:40] help himself from proving every reason why she really can't trust him i'm not 100 sure but i'm

[01:24:46] almost positive lori still gives shane mixed signals at least once more before the end of

[01:24:51] season two so while i'm cool with her essentially telling rick to kill shane she really hasn't made

[01:24:55] up her mind it feels like no as for the shootout with dave and tony's friends was anyone else

[01:25:01] worried that her show was maybe too drunk to fire a gun i always was concerned about that that's a

[01:25:05] good point it was nice to see more than a few stray zombies again between the zombie and the

[01:25:09] windshield with lori and the feast on the fallen foe faces did not fare well this episode i gotta

[01:25:15] love the star of the randall dilemma in this episode mercy versus protection i feel those

[01:25:20] two options are something rick works on for the rest of the series and maybe it's because of

[01:25:23] hindsight or what's revealed in 22 miles out but i hate having to agree with shane on this one he

[01:25:29] potentially knows too much uh anyone else knows maggie ran right past her dad the the person they

[01:25:35] were worried searching for uh to get to glenn it was nice to see glenn take that level up in this

[01:25:40] episode and i feel like this might be the moment where he starts to shed his boyish charm and

[01:25:44] naivety and starts to mature into the exceptionally capable and responsible man we all know and love

[01:25:50] before i sign off i'd really love to just just thank you both for your very very kind words

[01:25:54] last episode but that's it for me as always keep up the great work thanks thanks alex he reminded me

[01:26:02] you know talking about randall of the guy with the orange backpack who they just oh yeah

[01:26:09] oh that poor sucker yeah um alex we kept mentioning that his voice sounds like he's a

[01:26:17] professional and he mentioned he started a podcast so we asked him about it and he let me know that

[01:26:22] it's called quit chasing a philadelphia phillies podcast which is about you know it's a sports

[01:26:27] podcast and you can find it on apple podcast and spotify and probably everywhere else just so you

[01:26:32] if you want to hear more of alex excellent all right that is our show episode 580 thanks so much

[01:26:43] for listening everybody next episode the walking dead season 2 episode 10 18 miles out and renny

[01:26:51] is going to be guesting with us on that one so excited um if you want to write in or leave us

[01:26:56] a voice message about it you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com

[01:27:01] while you're there please check out our other podcasts i know um

[01:27:06] that they i think they just published the uh shogun podcast so that's on house podcastica and

[01:27:15] we're gonna be recording on yellow jackets wtf this weekend on the lord of the flies the novel

[01:27:24] that's cool hurry up and finish reading yeah you have to read it

[01:27:27] yeah this episode is made possible by patreon supporters like troy campbell who pledged their

[01:27:32] support at patreon.com slash jace cabassi so thank you to troy he gets ad free early access

[01:27:38] we tend to publish these a couple days earlier on patreon and then they come out on tuesday for

[01:27:44] everybody else all right that is our show thanks for listening don't get bit bill thompson