648: "The Price" (The Last of Us S2E6) Listener Feedback

[00:00:37] Hey Zedheads, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Wendy. And this is The Cast of Us episode 648. This episode, we're going through your feedback for The Last of Us season two, episode six, The Price. If you don't recognize that voice, shame on you. You haven't been listening to our other podcasts. This is Wendy. Hi, Wendy. Welcome. Hi. I'm so excited you asked me to do this one because I loved it.

[00:01:05] How could you not? Like who would watch this and be like, eh? Maybe my son, Nico. He hasn't seen it yet. I gotta see what he thinks. But yeah, I'm glad you wanted to come on and that you're caught up in everything. And I do want to mention Wendy's on Handmaid's Tale with Daphne and me, and that's been great. And also Yellow Jackets, which just got announced for a fourth season. So we're pretty stoked about that. Yeah. But how have you been liking The Last of Us this season? Like you're not a gamer, right?

[00:01:35] I'm not a gamer. I didn't know what was going to happen in episode two. I was quite surprised. I think I'm just taking it as it comes in. I've really liked this season. It's been good, right? I think so. Just as a show. Yeah. Yeah. Were you, when Joel died, did you think, oh crap, why did that have to happen?

[00:02:02] I was probably like everybody else in that. I was like, well, how's he going to get out of this? Yeah. And then after a while, I kind of did think, you know, and again, I think I talked about on the other podcasts, like Pedro's doing so much right now that it kind of made sense to me. I was like, he probably would sign up for this if he knew it was

[00:02:26] just a one season gig, although he was in this episode. So this is a whole other episode that he filmed. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there was a, I hope people don't mind me saying this, but there was a clip of him kind of saying goodbye to the crew and it was during one of those museum scenes. But you know, there's only one episode left this season. So I guess that just means he's not going to be in the finale. Maybe. There's a, there's only, it's only seven episodes.

[00:02:56] Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. That's so lame. Wow. Yeah. That makes me worry now. And then we have to wait two more years. They, they have renewed it for season three. Yeah. I saw that. That's good. All right. Well, let's get into the listener feedback. You want to go first? Is that Randy? Yeah. He's a zombie guy.

[00:03:25] Okay. That's great. Yeah. All right. Mitchell James Brown says, how did Gail ever talk to him again after lying like that? I kind of thought that too. Yeah. I mean. And it's one thing to like be civil with each other, but to have a doctor patient relationship is. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty, pretty bad. And she did confront him about it, but it took seven sessions or something

[00:03:53] like that. It was a big deal to her. I think it. Yeah. How did that relationship get started? Like I almost find it hard to believe that someone like Joel who might find it hard even to admit to himself that he needs therapy and then to seek out therapy would go to this therapist that he did that too. Yeah. She might be the only one in town though. Yeah. She is. I'm sure. Yeah.

[00:04:18] By the way, I don't know if you're listening, Lucy, but I was thinking of something we talked about last time in that therapy session. Uh, she said to Joel, you know, I know you had to do it, but it was just the way you did it. And Lucy thought that didn't seem like, like she would have, she thought that the therapist would have said you lied about how he died. And I was just thinking

[00:04:45] about that more and more. And I'm like, yeah, people don't, I don't think people talk that way. You know, if you're, if that happened where Joel lied to Gail about how her husband died and then Ellie blurted it out right in front of her. I think if they referenced that again, all she would need to say is I did not like the way you did that. And he would know exactly what she meant, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I, I think that's what it is. It, it seems like they had a role that, you know,

[00:05:14] once somebody was infected, that was it. And I would think she would have understood if he had kept to that rule. I mean, whether she would have understood or not, that was in my opinion, the risk he should have taken, you know, just tell by, I mean, tell the truth and she would take it. However, she was going to take all of them to Ellie, to him, to her, he's a liar, you know?

[00:05:38] I mean, I think he thinks he's telling white lies, you know, but it's not in that case. Yeah. I think he thought he was, well, he was protecting, he thought he was trying to protect her, but it really did come off. Like he was trying to protect himself, especially the part where he said, oh yeah, he killed himself. I mean, that's lying about kind of a murder really. I mean, it's a different

[00:06:06] circumstance because it's zombies and everything, but anyway. Yeah. Yep. I agree. Okay. Matt King says, just shows what a gaping hole there is now without Joel in the show, probably the best episode of the series so far. I mean, yes, I feel like that's a little bit cynical of a take because it seems to imply that the show's not going to be good without Joel in it. And I don't agree with that. That said, Pedro Pascal's amazing. Joel's great.

[00:06:33] It was great to see him, but I haven't missed him. You know what I mean? Yeah. Me neither. I haven't been less engaged or found it less good. Me neither. I mean, it's weird because when I saw him at the end of last week's episode, you get this feeling like, oh my God, it's Joel. It's so great. You know, but still the story's really good. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Christy Bassman says, can I just say that it was incredible to see Tony Dalton,

[00:07:02] who played Lalo Salamanca in Better Call Saul, show up as Joel and Tommy's dad? I mean, one thing from that I can tell is that you didn't watch Better Call Saul. Just because of the way you pronounced that name. I definitely didn't. Yeah. Sorry. It's on our list. In fact, something happened recently and I told my husband, I'm like, we've got to watch that. Yeah. I think it might've been you who posted, somebody posted a clip of something. I was like, I gotta watch that.

[00:07:31] Did you watch Breaking Bad? Yes. Yeah. So the thing about Better Call Saul is it starts off lighter. And for me, and I think other people I've talked to, you kind of watch it and you're like, yeah, that's pretty good, but it doesn't have that like really dark Breaking Bad fucked upness about it, but you still want to watch more. And then as the series goes along, it slowly gets more and more like Breaking Bad because they get closer to that timeframe.

[00:07:58] And I mean, it's just really good. And this guy, his name is Lalo Salamanca in the show. He's one of the best TV characters of the last several years in anything. He was just so good in it. Yeah. Really good. He was good in this little scene. I mean, I thought it was a great scene. I thought he was going to smack poor Joel. I did too. Yeah. I definitely thought that's what was going to happen. I thought Joel was going to kill him. I came up with this whole scenario in my head.

[00:08:28] Dabalino Bob Grippy says, I love that they had to point out the Matrix poster due to Joey pants starring in it as Cypher. I was surprised Joel betrayed Ellie's trust and then tries to pull one over on the therapist in front of Ellie. Dope. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. I was like, dude, I was feeling pretty critical of him in that moment. Maria Lawson says, after the end of last week, I was really hoping we would get an episode exactly

[00:08:54] like this, giving us the story of what happened over the last few years. I don't have a single critical thing to say about it and loved every minute. Joel was such a good dad. I agree. I remember people debating about the guitar because in the first episode, we saw Joel on the porch with the guitar, but then when Ellie woke up, the guitar was in her room. We knew we

[00:09:23] had missed something and they hadn't given it to us. I'm so glad they did. Me too. Absolutely. Yeah. And, and like, she was all pissed off at him after the New Year's party. And then the next day she wanted to go on patrol with him. I was like, yeah, well, you know, we have our moments, but we'll always be, you know, whatever each other's friends or whatever. I forget what she said, but it felt weird. Like there was a missing piece there. So it felt really good to get it.

[00:09:51] Mm-hmm. Uh, Elizabeth Schmoopy says Joel was enjoying his coffee in the flashback. Wasn't the greatest, but it was coffee. Given our current political climate tariffs on tariffs off. I've been very concerned about having coffee and we'll be squirreling some away just in case. I don't want to have to find out what Joel was willing to trade for it. Dre Minoni says, I love this episode.

[00:10:18] It filled in some gaps for me in terms of Joel and Ellie's relationship. When Ellie said, I'm not sure I can forgive you for this, but I want to try. I was so relieved that their last conversation was one of honesty and they didn't leave things completely unsettled or discussed. There was hope that they could fix this. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we were talking about how it's kind of

[00:10:45] sad that they had just maybe started a new chapter in their relationship and then it got cut short, but that's better than if they wouldn't have come clean with each other like that, you know, and they left things unsaid. Terry from Huntington Beach says, did I just see Oberyn Martell gunned down Guido the killer pimp from Risky Business and Cold Blood? Yep. What a great episode. I like how they're playing with our loyalty. We want to like Joel. He was the hero of season one,

[00:11:13] but now we see he's not even an anti-hero. He's more of a jerk. I have a question for you, the podcast crew. Did Joel have that beat down coming? Uh, beat down. Oh, you mean, oh, oh, just being killed. Is that what Terry means? I don't know if she means that or the beat down that Ellie basically gave him, you know, like when she totally narked on him,

[00:11:40] but I don't think he deserved the beat down that he got from Abby. Definitely not. But I do think he deserved what Ellie did to him. He deserved to be called out. Yeah. Yeah. The, yeah, I agree. I think the only reason why I felt critical of Ellie for that is because it clearly really hurt Gail, you know, and it, and it was all about punishing Joel, but it was kind of at Gail's expense. I mean, I don't think Joel should have lied to Gail, but once he did lie, then maybe it wasn't so nice to

[00:12:09] point it out right as she's just trying to process the truth. Yeah. Maybe the truth. And I think that's what Ellie thought because Ellie was thinking about herself and thought that she deserved the truth. I think Ellie, I was just trying to stick it to Joel and I do think he deserved it.

[00:12:32] Well, she said, she said you had the same face. So when he lied to her about, um, Eugene, he had the same face when he lied to her earlier. And I always thought that Ellie kind of always knew what had happened. And when he lied to her about Salt Lake city, she knew or, or at least heavily

[00:12:58] suspected that he was lying. I don't think, I mean, just when she was sitting there on her bed, reading out the questions she'd written about why, uh, how come they haven't met any more immune people and all that tells me that she may have suspected or maybe even deep down new, but she wouldn't let herself fully consciously accept the truth of it until she got that confirmation from him

[00:13:25] in this episode because of the way he lied about Eugene. But, um, you're saying Terry saying, you know, um, they're playing with our loyalty. We want to like Joel. He was the hero, but now we see he's a jerk. I mean, he's human. I think, I mean, I, I, I like that they have characters do things that are flawed. I always say that because it's true. It doesn't mean that I think Joel should be written

[00:13:53] off. Not from my point of view. I think he had good intentions. Yeah. He, he wants to protect people. He doesn't want them to feel hurt, especially Ellie. I mean, it's obvious that he's living for Ellie in all these years and he doesn't want her to hurt or to think that she could be the cure,

[00:14:18] but he took that away from her. And, you know, so I do think it's good intentions. Joel doesn't want people to be hurt, but he's taken away their right to have the truth about important things. And it's, it comes, I agree with you mostly. I think it comes at least in part from good intentions of wanting to protect the people you care about, but also it's true that it's selfish.

[00:14:47] It's for him too. You know, like Ellie said, you're selfish. He said, well, I love you. Both of those are true. And, and what I think is great about Joel, like a lot of people is they can do things that are kind of messed up and then get scolded and then learn and try to do better. And, you know, I think we saw that even in this episode where he was bordering on, if not fully homophobic

[00:15:14] for a second there, when he walked in on her and her girlfriend and then came back the next day. Okay, sorry. You know, so he can do better is my point. And we all, we all really like that. Yeah. Alicia Stout says, I'm a little behind and just finished last week's episode. So good. I'm going, I'm doing my best to avoid spoilers. So I'm not reading through these comments just yet.

[00:15:41] Just had to say though, this show is so intense and seriously gives me anxiety. I'll chime in again after I take Xanax and catch up on this week's episode. But for now, here's a pun to hold you over. Tried to open a mushroom restaurant, but business was sporadic at best. Sporadic. Oh, well, Alicia, I bet you, you felt a lot better after watching this one. I mean, maybe I think I would think so. Let us know.

[00:16:10] All right. Here's call from Steve Brown. Hello, the cast of us. This is Steve. And this is going to be for the last of us season two, episode six, the price. Oh, is this a flashback to when Tommy and yeah. Oh, it is 1983. Hey, Joel. Yeah. I just blinked for a second on Pedro, but the sales character's name. I don't know why. Oh, so Joel must be in this one. Cause they were stored in, in the credits next to Bella Ramsey, but they're not walking. Were they always walking apart like that? Wow.

[00:16:40] Did Joel make the guitar that he's going to give to Ellie? Wow. Oh, she burned herself to cover up the bite from the original bite, right? That's where the original one was. Oh, what a sweet scene here between Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey, this playing future days. I don't know the song or the band, but yeah, it's here we are a year later. This is Bella's. This is Ellie's 16th birthday. And she wants to go on patrol and wants to learn to go on patrol.

[00:17:07] And Ellie appears to know way more about sex than Joel thinks she does or knows she does. And this is very different than any other museum trip I ever went on as a kid. Wow. Bella Ramsey is such a good actress. That just look of just enjoyment and wow on her face is just amazing in this astronaut's helmet. So now this would be her 17th birthday, right? It's another year later when they got the cake right this time, at least her name, right? Well, they're having a better conversation now than they're about.

[00:17:34] They're going to have in the future. I guess that this relationship isn't strained yet. He just looked at his tattoo and he liked it. Catherine O'Hara is great. Is there a sign on me like Lucy from Peanuts? Now we're two years later. So this is age 19. And this is closer to a present day, right? When she's practicing what she's going to ask Joel about the hospital raid. You can see the roots of Ellie's action-oriented on patrol desire here in this training or first patrol.

[00:18:04] So we're going to get the Eugene flashback here of how Eugene died. Oh, and there's Eugene, Joey Pants. I had to pause it because I saw that the gun was empty as soon as he pulled it out of his holster and aimed it at Joel. And I'm so glad that they used it in the script that Joel recognized that the gun was empty as well. Well, that was the very briefest of cameos by Joe Pantiglione. Wow. Oh, and he just told her that he killed himself. But Ellie's just going to tell the truth.

[00:18:32] Okay, so now nine months later, and this is the night of the New Year's Eve party, right? Oh, and now we get the significance of the coffee beans because he traded something really important just for coffee beans. Oh, he just nodded saying that he, so he believes there could have been a cure made from her dying. Well, that's something. At least she wants to try to forgive him. Oh, wow. Okay, well, one episode left for this season. At least we know we're going to get a season three and maybe a season four even. What do you, anything you're hoping to see in the finale?

[00:19:02] I mean, I don't want her to. I've been a little frustrated with the plot just because it's not that I think it's not a great plot or it's not interesting, but they seem so happy, you know? And like, why don't they just go home? But of course, that wouldn't make a great show, would it? Yeah. But like, I.

[00:19:28] He just like feels like something bad is going to happen and not for the best reason. Yeah. But like, it's, it's all vengeance and you can't, you can't live in that place or you're just gonna, it'll eat you up. And I mean, if she, if she, if she killed Abby, would she feel better? I don't think she would, but so I'm a little worried. Yeah, no, you're right.

[00:19:56] And I think that's kind of what the point is, you know, what we're supposed to be talking about when we talk about the story. It is weird. I don't, I feel like there's vengeance movies, but you don't see a lot of vengeance TV shows where the whole show is about that. I don't think maybe there's some I'm not remembering. I don't like her beating or I guess, did she kill her? I'm not sure. I don't think we know yet for sure, but it didn't seem. Yeah, but I didn't like that scene at all.

[00:20:24] Like, like somebody did something bad to you. So you're just going to do something bad to them. Um, it doesn't feel good. Yeah. But I mean, I, when I say I don't like it, I loved it. Like, yeah, right. The story, but I, I just think they're so sweet together. Um, you know, and, and they could be happy, but, but again, that wouldn't make a great show, right? They go back to Colorado and just live happily ever after. Nope. That wouldn't make a good show.

[00:20:54] Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I don't know. I think some people are more revenge minded and some are not. That's what my husband said. He's like, he's like, no, no, I could absolutely see that. I was, I was, you know. That's funny. Yeah. Uh, Steve, that was Future Days by Pearl Jam. That's Pearl Jam song. Which came out in 2013, but Neil Druckmann loves it. So he didn't care.

[00:21:23] He used it anyway, even though it doesn't make sense. Uh, Gijo Putia says I could watch Ellie and Joel hang out for hours, but it's not that kind of show. Skull, skull. I wish Joel was more articulate when he explained what happens. LOL. I would have been like, well, Ellie, they did not give you the choice. If they asked you first and you were okay, maybe I would have done something different, but they did not give you any agency and it is your life, your choice.

[00:21:50] It's, I get frustrated because Joel is so uncommunicative. That's one of his shortcomings. I guess that's what happens when Lalo Salamanca is your father. I wonder what, yeah, what Ellie would have said if Joel would have said that. I wonder if it would have made a difference to her. I get a feeling it, it might've made not much difference. Maybe just a little bit, you know, and maybe they talked about that after the camera stopped rolling.

[00:22:20] Right. Yeah. Right. Maybe they talked about the details. Um, I think she's pretty astute and she's been thinking about this for a long time and everything he said was exactly what she thought. Yeah. And I mean, she already knows, she knows that I feel the same way G Joe. I like, yeah, that that's my rationale for why Joel did the right thing.

[00:22:47] So maybe he should have said it, but Ellie knows that she knows she didn't have a choice and she's still mad. Yeah. Well, and it's probably a lot of survivor's guilt. I mean, she survived, but then how many people in their own camp have died since then? This guy, Eugene just now. Right. Yeah. Right. And so, so I think it's guilt, you know, she feels guilty that she could have done something

[00:23:16] with her, you know, by sacrificing her life. Yeah. It's probably very complicated. Um, all right. Josh Gell says, Hey guys, got a lot to say other than this episode was amazing. It was so full of emotion. I wish Joel would have been like, I don't know when Ellie asked if the cure would have worked. Yeah. No one knows, but it's part of the story. So we have to believe that it would.

[00:23:45] I'm currently listening to your review of the episode. Zanfer's The Lonely Shepherd is also a song featured in Kill Bill volume one. Kill Bill's all about revenge and Ellie is currently on her revenge tour. That's the little Easter egg I got from it. I am not ready for next week. I don't want this show to end. Thank you, Josh. I think you're right on with that. Absolutely. Kill Bill's one of the things I think of when I think of revenge stories. Yeah. And I love Kill Bill.

[00:24:14] Yeah. And Inglourious Bastards is another one. Oh my gosh. Yes. I love that show. Becca Diaz says, Hey, the cast of us. I stumbled upon your podcast recently and binge listened to all the first season of The Last of Us. I'm a couple episodes behind on the show, but I just wanted to reach out and tell you how much I appreciate your podcast. The second season has been difficult for me to watch and listening to your podcast helps.

[00:24:39] I lost my husband last year and he was a huge Last of Us fan, played both games and told me all the spoilers. And we watched the first season together. Things from the show will trigger me when I remember he told me about it happening, but listening to your pod helps ground me. You're also amazing. I love that there is the mixture of laughter and lighthearted discussions and thought provoking deeper conversations as well. From the bottom of my heart, thank you and keep it up.

[00:25:06] I will definitely be finding more shows of yours to listen to as well. That's got to be so hard, Becca. Thank you for sharing that, Becca. I'm so sorry. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. I'm always really thankful that people would trust us enough to let us know about something like that. And I'm glad that you're enjoying the podcast and that it's helping with everything. Yeah. And watch Handmaid's Tale if you haven't, because that show is just the best show ever.

[00:25:36] It'll brighten your day. Yeah. Yeah. No, don't watch that. Go listen to Strange Indeed when we covered Great British Bake Off. That's my recommendation. Yeah, there you go. All right. Steph from Montana says, hi, I've been listening to the pod for a couple years now, but this is my first time writing in. I love listening to you guys chat about my favorite shows since I don't have many friends that watch them or enjoy them as much as I do. So thank you for that.

[00:26:06] I really love this episode. I haven't played the games. So when Joel died in episode two, I was shocked. I was in denial up to the scene that showed them dragging his remains back to Jackson. I think this episode gave me a lot of closure with getting to see Joel and Ellie and Ellie's good times together and knowing they had some sort of resolve before his death. When she put the astronaut helmet on, her face made me giggle because it had so much childlike

[00:26:35] joy in it. Bella Ramsey truly is a treasure. All the things Joel did for her showed how much he adored her. Ellie is generally still kind of immature, but with everything that has happened, we've seen a lot of sadness and anger from her this season. It was nice to see her being silly again. Thanks for all the great entertainment you guys provide me. Steph from Montana. P.S. I'm really worried about Shimmer. I don't know where we left Shimmer. Shimmer. Yeah.

[00:27:05] When there was that really exciting episode, was it last week? I think so. Man, it seems like a lot of time has passed now after this one. Yeah. They had to go in the subway. I don't know. I'm forgetting what happened, but they had to leave Shimmer. Maybe that was the episode a couple of weeks back when they had to go down in the subway and they couldn't take Shimmer down in there. So we don't really know what happened to Shimmer, but I hope we see Shimmer again. Yeah. Me too.

[00:27:34] And I felt the same way. Even when they stabbed Joel in the neck, I still was like, well, he's still going to get up. Yeah. I forget who it was, but one person said they watched all of that. They saw them dragging Joel's body behind the horse and they still didn't really, it didn't

[00:27:56] hit home until they heard us talking about it on the podcast saying he's dead because you just don't want to believe it. Yeah. I get it. Okay. Stacey Metcalf says the return of Joel had me crying more than the loss of Joel. This episode was so full of emotion. The love that Joel has for Ellie is so evident. The birthday surprises from the guitar so beautifully designed to the museum visit and the details

[00:28:23] of Joel so lovingly arranged for Ellie, clearly showing their connection. The tears running down Joel's face as he sees Ellie's joy in the space capsule made my heart melt. I totally loved all of Bella's facial expressions with her birthday surprises. Just perfection. Equally sad were the moments that Joel broke Ellie's trust. The porch confession after the situation with Seth and the way Joel explained how he loved her in a way she couldn't understand. Have my mama heart agreeing with him. Me too.

[00:28:51] I didn't really stress that enough on the podcast, but I totally get that. And I'm sure anyone who's a parent was thinking, yep, you don't even understand kid. Um, when he used the words, his father said to him, we know he's carried that moment with him since he was a teen. I was so crushed thinking Ellie was not going to forgive Joel, but elated when she said she'd like to try. I know. Cause she goes, I don't think I can ever forgive you for that. And it's like, oh, and then she goes, but I want to try. And you're like, oh, good.

[00:29:20] And his facial expression during that was really special. Yes. Uh, this episode had me wearing my mama hat and longing for those cherished moments between a father and a daughter. Knowing Ellie loses Joel right after this interaction is so gut wrenching. I know I'm going to miss Joel even more now. That's a good one. I really thought they did a really nice job of showing the way a parent child relationship

[00:29:47] changes over time and nobody really tells you how heartbreaking that can be to a parent. Like it's very natural for a child to create distance and want autonomy and to start needing you less and to start having a different relationship for you. That's absolutely normal. But as a parent, it's really hard to go through. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:30:15] I mean, I don't know why, but I always, from the day my kids were born, I've been dreading that. And also trying to tell myself when it happens, because it will try not to freak out too much and this is a necessary thing. And then when they turn 22 or three, they'll be back to being your friend again, you know? Yeah. Because not only do they not need you, but I don't think every teen does this, but many

[00:30:44] teens actively push against you because they just need to be their own person, you know? Yeah. And when they come back, it's wonderful, but it's not the same. Yeah. Like, it's not the same relationship that you had because it's not the same person. They're grown. And it's really a grief and a mourning for that. And I don't think enough people talk about it because so many parents don't do it well. Yeah.

[00:31:14] You know? Like, they don't react to that. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think that's what gets the focus and not, like, the grief, the appropriate feelings to have. Like, you can feel sad and upset and, you know, you just can't show it too much. Yeah. You're making me sad. For your child. Thinking about it right now. I'm sorry. It's okay.

[00:31:39] But I really do try to remember both sides of it because I remember being a kid being like, fuck, man, you're just nagging me all the time. And I just want to be free, you know, those kind of feelings. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's hear a call from Rebecca. Hey, cast of us. It's Rebecca in Houston. I needed to call in with my feedback on this last episode. The Price.

[00:32:09] Oh, my God. I was telling my husband, like, there's no way a show about freaking zombies is supposed to be this deep. Like, this is intense. Like, seeing these flashbacks of Ellie's birthdays and everything that Joel did for her birthdays is, like, every kid's dream of a parent to, like, slowly, like, listen and learn about what

[00:32:34] their kids like, about what their kids would love and want without the kid having to explicitly, like, spell it out. So, it's just, it's the inner child in me was healed. Um, watching Ellie be the doting daughter that Joel just literally has done everything for. Um, but yeah, of course, it's conflicting because she finally does know what he did.

[00:33:01] He was so terrified to tell her, but he knew he had to. And, again, I just loved how nothing is black and white. It's so nuanced. How she's like, I'm never going to forgive you, but I really want to try. And then he was literally gone the next day. Like, now I can feel, really understand her heartbreak and her horror and everything she felt watching Joel being killed. Because they didn't get that chance, you know, to rebuild their relationship.

[00:33:32] And I'm like, this is a show about fucking zombies. Why am I crying about father-daughter relationships? Like, what the hell? But it's so freaking good. Like, the, the, uh, space shuttle scene. I loved it. I'm loving this season. Again, it's heartbreaking. It's been so intense. Like, the, I love all the infected action, the bloaters, the stalkers. So good.

[00:33:59] I'm enjoying watching the Dina and Ellie storyline. Some good LGBTQIA representations. And some good, uh, Latino, Latino representation. I just, I love it all across the board. A few notes. One about when women throw up and means they're pregnant trope in shows. You know, it bothered me when I first saw it when she was throwing up. When she first saw, like, the dead people. And I was like, that's weird. Maybe she just had a lot of anxiety. Or man, the way they were killed must have been really gruesome.

[00:34:27] And I mean, once they showed the scene, I was like, it's not as bad as anything else that they've seen. I don't understand why it made her so sick. And then in my brain, I was like, they better not be alluding to her being pregnant. Because this is so fucking cheap. Like, this is, ugh. Like, there's so many other ways. Like, I've had two kids. I've been pregnant at least twice. And I usually end up just very moody. And I'm very just snippy with my husband and everybody around me. I'm just in a bad mood because I just don't feel well.

[00:34:57] And I don't understand why I don't feel well, right? So I think one more realistic way was Dina could have just been super moody. And Ellie would be like, are you okay? And then maybe Dina could have said, I don't know. I'm just not feeling good. Or, hey, my period's late. Or something deeper than just the throwing up. Because our bodies go through a lap sometimes before we even get to the throwing up phase. And, you know, and the show hasn't shied away from women's issues. Like, when Ellie got excited in season one that she found a box of tampons.

[00:35:25] And then when she got to Jackson, Maria gave her that menstruation cup or whatever. So, you know, they don't shy away from that stuff. So that's why I'm like, why? This is where we went. We're just throwing up and suddenly she's pregnant. Like, and who's going to find five pregnancy tests like all at once in the apocalypse? Like, that was kind of weird. But anyway, so I found it interesting when you guys started talking about it. I'm like, oh, okay, so this struck a chord in many places. Interesting. Okay, I'm here for this conversation.

[00:35:53] But I agree with the ladies that they could have found another way. It doesn't have to be a girl throwing up and settling and she's pregnant. It's kind of annoying. Anyway, yeah. It's just been great. I'm enjoying, obviously enjoying your coverage. And I'll talk to y'all next time. Bye. What do you think? I threw up immediately with all my pregnancies. But everybody's different. Yeah, she said she agrees with the ladies. But I felt like it was kind of split.

[00:36:22] Maybe a little more. But there were at least a few women who wrote in saying, oh, yeah, I threw up. I get it. But then there were some who were like, yeah, it's a trope. They always do that. I think they could have accomplished the same thing with just having them have a conversation about it. And that might have been more realistic. I don't know. Yeah. I honestly, I don't totally get why. But it really did. She's right. It struck a chord. People were not. They were annoyed by it.

[00:36:52] And Rebecca said it was cheap. Maybe it just seems overdone. But when you look at the show, Last of Us, there's the trope of this hardened adult that travels with a child and forms a bond. We saw that in Mandalorian, Logan, Witcher, The Daryl Show. The zombie apocalypse itself is kind of a trope. Characters haunted by past trauma.

[00:37:21] Obsession with vengeance is kind of a trope. I mean, there's been so many tropes. But these are all more like overarching story points, not just some little thing like that. So I don't know. Did that match how they did it in the game? I can't remember now. I think it did. Because if it did, then that's why they did it. It did. Actually, yeah. Now I remember. They did do it in the game. But still, I mean, people might have had the same issue with it in the game. Like, oh my God, it's a trope. Yeah.

[00:37:53] Anyway, Rebecca, I was really glad to hear that you just kind of standing up for Dean and Ellie's relationship as far as entertainment value. Like being like, no, I'm enjoying it. Because that has been kind of my biggest complaint is I like their relationship. I think they have great chemistry. But there are some moments where it's like, it feels a little weird, the writing more than anything. Like they jump into a moment too fast or it's a little too cutesy.

[00:38:19] And it takes me out of it because I think the rest of the show is so well done. But Rebecca's saying, nope, I liked it. And I know somebody else called in and said the same thing. And I'm glad that other people don't agree with me about that. I really love it. Yeah, that's good. I think when they first, like when you could first tell that Ellie liked her, I thought it was a little odd. Like they were odd together. But as they've developed, I think they're super cute.

[00:38:45] And I think they're pretty typical for what you would be at that age. You know? Being that young. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Chad Johnson says, this flashback really deals with the outcome of season one. I agree on points of no consent, regardless if it's what Ellie might have wanted. But if I knew I held the key to a cure, I sure as hell would not rely on the opinion of a single

[00:39:14] doctor who thinks he has the answer after a few hours of research. No. In fact, fuck no. Ellie deserved more questions and more answers. So did Joel. Kill away, Joel. The fireflies were being selfish, arrogant, and irresponsible. Now, why did he lie to Ellie? Because she doesn't have to live with the burden. Same with Gail. Both of these are wrong. But from Joel's point of view, he had to endure his daughter getting shot in front of him and die in his arms.

[00:39:44] We saw in opening of this episode, Joel was willing to take the punishment to protect Tommy. It's always been Joel's way of trying to be better than his father. Instead of inflicting pain, he can carry the burden of a lie and spare others pain. Is it wrong? Yes. But so is hurting people experiencing a loss with brutal honesty. Joel said he'd do it all over again. If he was selfish, the easiest thing would be to sit back and be the first in line for a cure. Sure.

[00:40:14] Going through a hospital full of soldiers and living with that afterwards, that is hard. I kind of agree with most of that. Yeah, that was very well said, Chad. I mean, the part- And I always thought Joel was right for what he did in Salt Lake. I mean, the part about why he's lying, because he wants to take that pain for himself and not burden Ellie with it. Like, just not burden Ellie with the fact that she could have helped cure all these people

[00:40:42] that are now dying around her. I think that is part of it. And I don't necessarily think that- I do think that's why he did it, but it doesn't excuse it. For one thing, he's not a good enough liar, and she knew. So he failed. She still felt the burden, you know? But still, I mean, yeah, I don't think- I think it's at least debatable whether he should have did that, and I think he probably shouldn't have lied.

[00:41:09] But I still think it's great to hear you talk about why he did it, because I think you're right. That's what he was thinking. Yep. And just covering his own ass, too. I still think that's part of it. Carlos Frederick says, it's my fucking birthday. Let's see what you got. The cake scene and song scene were so well done with a dash of humor and a warm feeling of how they cared for each other at that time. I loved how they chronicled the timeframes leading up to their relationship split.

[00:41:39] The port scene gutted me, knowing they were going to move forward and try to work through their trust issues, since they both have things to work through. The full circle moment from episode one to episode six was truly amazing and heartbreaking. The funny theme of Joel not knowing Ellie's sexual preference was funny, since Joel knows these things. Ha ha. I think Joel would fit in any couple relationship. He's such a hot guy. Fire, fire.

[00:42:04] Fire emoji with holding one hand over one eye and peeking out with the other eye. What an emotional episode. I was happy that we did not have to get stressed out and panicked that we were going to get fucking bit. Thank you for being here for a fantastic podcast. Thanks, Carlos. That's great. Alma Contreras. Hi, Alma. said, Oh my fucking God, I'm totally destroyed once again. And now we know what happened to Eugene.

[00:42:34] No wonder Gail hated Joel. I wish he wouldn't have made that promise to Ellie. I am still on Joel's side with the decision he made about saving Ellie. My heart was utterly breaking when he was telling her how much he loved her and the harsh truth. When he said, if he had the chance to go back, he would do it all over again. As a parent, we will do anything in our power to keep our child safe. Yes, she is not his kid, but his love for her is as if she was his kid.

[00:43:04] Ugh. Maybe I'm of this mindset because I grew up without a father. And many times I remember wishing to have a father's love. Okay, perhaps this episode hit me hard and deep in the depths of my soul. I look forward to hearing other people's thoughts. P.S. I don't agree with Ellie believing her death would have given her life meaning. Honestly, I don't think the Fireflies would have found a cure by sacrificing the only known immune person and then her death would have been for nothing.

[00:43:34] Seems like there's a damn good chance you're right about that. But I do think that the idea, even though it's unlikely in the real world in this fictional story, I think the idea is that there was a good chance it would have resulted in a cure. Even though in the real world, probably impossible. You know? All right. Here's a call from Gloria.

[00:44:02] Hi, Jason, Lucy, Ben, and Eric, and whoever else happens to be there. This is Gloria from Salem, Mass. And this is for The Last of Us, Season 2, Episode 6, The Price. Oh, thanks, Eric, for the compliment on my accent. My kids just think it's awful, but Jesus, they have it too. So whatever. Okay. So, starting with Joel and Tommy's childhood and abusive father was really interesting. Was that even in the game? I have no idea.

[00:44:31] Did you recognize their dad? He's the actor from Hawkeye, the swordsman. I don't remember his name, though. Generational trauma. Oh, what fun. It's true, though. Hopefully, with every generation, the family traumas get needed out. My dad was physically and emotionally abusive, so I never believed in corporal punishment with my own kids. Luckily for them. Absolutely loved getting the flashbacks via Ellie's birthday. Great idea.

[00:44:58] What special things Joel did for her every year, too. Who knows if she ever had a cake or gifts from her prior birthdays. I mean, I wish she mentioned something, you know. That would have been interesting. What time, consideration, and love Joel put into making that guitar. I was so impressed. Then the song. Oh, my God, sweet Jesus. All the tears. All the Kleenex. It was a mess. I think I cried through the whole thing, though. I mean, the whole episode.

[00:45:28] I looked up what museums were near the border of Wyoming, and I got one in Colorado at Fort Collins Museum of Discovery, which is all about the science stuff. So cool. That must have taken forever to get to, though. What a perfect way to celebrate Ellie and her birthday. Perfect. Then we have age 17. Ah, the hormones. So much fun. All the teenage stuff at once.

[00:45:56] The tattoo, the weed, and the lovely lesbians. Wow. He was so pissed. At least he did realize that she needs her own space now. Then off to two years later. And I really wish Joel listened to her and allowed Eugene that extra time he had to see Gail. That was horribly sad and so unfair. I honestly thought we were going to hear that gunshot. So glad we didn't, though. And all the anger from Ellie. I don't blame her for selling them out to Gail.

[00:46:26] I felt horribly sad for everyone, though. And lastly, that porch scene killed me, as I'm sure it did everybody. He was really trying to be a supportive dad, though. Should be lucky to have you. Now, with the sobbing, even Messia, Pedro and Bella's performances were just stellar. I can't say enough about it. I was so relieved when Ellie did say she'd like to try to forgive him. I think this is the best episode. The best of both seasons.

[00:46:56] That's it. Talk to you next week. Bye. Bye. The only way in an episode like this, it feels, it's such a good feeling. But it's in contrast to the rest, you know, like if you just had a show that was like this all the time, it wouldn't seem special. You have to have all the bleakness first. And then it's like a relief.

[00:47:22] Gloria mentioned about corporal punishment and how her father was abusive, and then she didn't use that on her kids. And Neil Druckmann was saying something about that on the official podcast where his dad hit him hard. And then he said, I think he said no. Or he said his dad's dad hit him hard, just like Joel. And then his dad hit Neil, just smacked him.

[00:47:51] And then he doesn't hit his kids or something like that. But it seems pretty common over time that corporal punishment got less and less. When I was a kid, my mom signed a permission slip for my teacher to be able to hit me. And she did a couple of times. And I felt so betrayed by that. But I made a point to say I'm never going to hit my kids at all.

[00:48:14] And one time, Jenny's father, who's more traditional, slapped one of my kids on the knuckles. And I said, please don't ever do that again. You know, I just don't. I don't like it. It only teaches them that violence is the answer. Yeah. It seemed crazy to me. Like, why would you hit a child? That's awful. Right. Right. That's my personal take on the matter. All right.

[00:48:41] Daniel Dement Joe says, hi, Jason, Lucy, and anyone else on the pod, which is Wendy. It's been a hot, hot minute since I wrote in. Life has gotten very busy. And although I'm still watching, I was behind on the podcast until this week. So for starters, I'm a non-gamer. This episode was beautiful. I adored the first half and was sad we had to go through the second half. But it was very well done and filled a gap that really needed filling. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. I can see the Eugene situation from both sides.

[00:49:08] But Joel should have just stood his ground with Ellie rather than lie to her. Not just lie, but break a promise about letting Eugene see his wife. Yeah, I agree with that. Ellie may have been mad at him or upset about the situation, but she would have probably gotten over it. I very much want this show led by two queer women characters to be successful and engaging. So I say this with some disappointment, but having Joel back this week made for a much, much better episode. Pedro Pascal has amazing screen presence.

[00:49:37] Bella Ramsey is truly wonderful, but the chemistry they have with Pedro is unmatched. And I find Dina a little annoying. Sorry. I hate that there's only one episode left. The time between seasons is way too long. I agree. They have been planning season three for a long time, and I wish they'd just filmed all of it so they could release season three sooner. It wasn't greenlit, though, until recently. Really? Yeah, I think HBO made an announcement. Huh. I wonder.

[00:50:07] I forget when, but. Because HBO and Showtime are owned by the same people, right? And they're the same people that didn't greenlit Yellow Jackets until the last. Until now, yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I wonder if there's something. HBO shows cost a lot, so I think they really want to be sure that it's going to be worthwhile. But I'm just glad it's coming. Yeah, but I agree, man. I think we're going to have to wait another two years, and that totally sucks. She goes on, what do you call an alligator in a vest?

[00:50:37] An investigator. I like that one. Everybody's sending in the dad. That is good. Love you guys. Bye. Bye. Thank you, Danielle. Billy Thompson says, hello. Hope you guys are well. Really enjoyed the opening to this episode, getting some more background on characters, and we get more from Seth. I really did think we wouldn't see any more of him, but I'm glad we do, and he wasn't just a throwaway character.

[00:51:06] I was expecting to only be crying this episode, but it had me laughing, man. Happy birthday, Eli. It smelled like pork. And you mean dicks and vaginas all got me. What a heartwarming scene. The spaceship was just like the game. The tears were flowing. I felt all warm and fuzzy inside, and the I do okay just killed me. Seeing how happy Joel was in that moment, and the tear just killed me.

[00:51:33] Wow, we really do get both sides of their relationship this episode. It really does do a good job of showing why Ellie gets to the point she does with Joel. And personally, I can't say she is wrong. I think I would have also tried to let Eugene see his wife before he dies. I understand that it's probably a law in Jackson that Joel did what he did after seeing in episode two one of the guys that had got bitten, handed his gun over to be executed straight away. That's right, yep.

[00:52:02] But I think you at least try in this contained situation. Surely you could quite easily hold him at gunpoint the entire time. Honestly, the porch scene had me sobbing. I mean, really crying like a baby. If the spaceship scene killed me, after this scene, I am dead. I'm talking to you from beyond the grave. I was so overwhelmed with emotions, I just burst and died. Can't wait to hear your guys' thoughts in this episode. Thanks, guys. Bye. That was great.

[00:52:31] Yeah, I hope you can at least still get HBO over there and keep writing in. Yeah. What do you think? Do you think they should have tried to get Eugene back to see his wife? I was thinking they should have found some paper and let Eugene write a letter. That's what I was thinking. But he wanted to see her face. And they had walkie-talkies, so he could have called her. Yeah, well, I mean, why not call her? Because he said, I need to see her face. Yeah, but I don't.

[00:53:00] So you're saying no, you wouldn't. Those rules were made because of situations where they probably did do that and it didn't go well. Yep. There's a dead person because someone broke that rule. You know it. Right. At least one. Right. So I agree with following the rules. I'm a rule follower for the most part. But I was thinking I would want a letter.

[00:53:24] Like a letter would mean a lot more to me than just Joel's relaying what happened. And I'd like to have a letter. They did have walkie-talkies. And I'm sure the reason. Well, I think they had him say, I need to see your face. Well, I made this joke on the last podcast, but just because they knew some podcasters would say they had walkie-talkies right there. But they should have at least tried that. Talk to her on the walkie. That's all you're going to get. It's best you're going to get. Yeah.

[00:53:54] Okay. Here is a call from Robin. Hey, y'all. It's me. Not going to lie. I'm all cried out. So what a ringer we went through. I've been thinking a lot about Joel's lies. You know, why does he lie? I think it's because, and I think this goes way back to Tommy, although he didn't lie to Tommy.

[00:54:17] But taking the beating for Tommy comforts and protects and protects Joel from Tommy's pain. And I think that carries over all through his life. He lies to Ellie about the fireflies because he wants to protect her and comfort her and be the hero. But he also wants to protect himself from her anger and devastation when she finds out what he did. Both.

[00:54:47] And I guess he lies because he feels like he did the right thing. But again, he wants to protect them, but he wants to protect himself too. And same with Gail. He wants to protect her from the truth, comfort her, be the hero. I tried to bring your husband back, but he killed himself. But he also wants to protect himself from Gail's anger and devastation.

[00:55:15] And he, I still maintain though that Ellie was not old enough at age 13 to give consent to have her brain removed from her head. But, you know, she seems to believe that she could. And it's so, it was so devastating to see him on the porch answering her questions about what happened with the fireflies being so incredibly inarticulate about the truth.

[00:55:43] But he's so articulate when he lies. It's, it's, he's, it's an interesting, an interesting character or personality aspect, I guess. But then, you know, then Joel knows about these things, ha ha ha, and then gets so mad when he discovers Ellie in the room with Kat, I guess. So mad, so upset. But then, you know, he can't stand to have her mad at him.

[00:56:11] And, and he actually reminds me a lot of my husband in some ways. You know, he comes, after he comes down, she comes in, he's like all kind of sweet and hang dog. And starts asking all the right questions. And, you know, trying to understand. My husband's been doing that for 45 years. Can't come out and say, I'm sorry, Ellie, or I'm sorry, Robin. But can just sort of sidle over.

[00:56:39] And, you know, I was actually kind of surprised that Joel didn't give her kind of a light little punch on the arm and go, come on. Which is what usually happens to me. But, you know, it's, I guess he accepted it pretty well, pretty easily. That was, that was really good. He wasn't going to hold that against her for sure. But, you know, it's just, it's a, it's a really complex and layered situation there with their relationship.

[00:57:05] Much more so, I think, than I realized earlier in the show. You know, the love that he had for her. And that she had for him. Really, really sad how much they lost. But, I'm very glad that they were at least before the end, you know, going to work at, at finding, she was going to work at finding forgiveness for him.

[00:57:31] Okay, since you did not love my catastrophe pun last week, I'm going to give you an elephant joke. Ready? Ready? How can you tell that the elephant has been in your refrigerator by the sneaker prints in the Jell-O? Love y'all. Talk again soon. Bye. That's better. I like it. I remember that joke from when I was a little kid. And it was the footprints in the butter.

[00:58:00] That was it. I really like how you put that Joel's inarticulate about the truth, but articulate with a lie. And that feels like a real human quality somehow, where someone would stumble around when they're trying to figure out how to say what they really think or feel. But if they have this lie crafted, then it comes easier to them. Or just crafting a lie. Thanks, Robin.

[00:58:27] And Colin from Iowa says, I wholeheartedly disagree with what you said last week, Jason. All of it? Or he says, I'm kidding. It really was a very heartfelt and courageous point you made on the feedback episode. And with or without race being involved, it's a time we need to just be kind. I can't remember what I said. What did I say? Something about racism or something? God, I can't remember, Colin.

[00:58:54] Anyway, now as someone from the Midwest and spent most of my life on a construction site and a lot of time incarcerated, I've heard hate spewed by every color and race of people you can imagine. And seen all sorts of heinous and hurtful things done to humans as a whole. And now as a father, it's my job to teach my kids that hate is a terrible quality to have. It's a heavy burden to hold. I tell them all the time that it costs nothing to be kind. But to be cruel, it can cost more than you can imagine.

[00:59:20] I went through a bout of prison sentences, probation periods, the better part of $200,000 in fines because I chose not to be kind. It sprouted a heavy drinking problem, something you and Lucy probably know for my first few times calling into the show. And that cost me my life for a few moments. Sorry, I don't mean to laugh. We're the walking dead. I didn't lose my sense of humor.

[00:59:43] I'm sorry this isn't show related, but your words last week really gave me a pause to stop and think of all the fucked up things that led to me ultimately closing my book and opening a new chapter. Oh, I think it was just talking about how this show is about cycles of violence and tit for tat, you know, getting revenge on people and just dehumanizing other groups of people getting to the point where you dehumanize each other.

[01:00:10] And that, you know, we won't do well, like, for example, in our country, unless we all realize that we're in it together and that we want each other to win things like that. I think that's what he's talking about. He goes on you and everyone at podcast have really done some great things in the world of media and podcasting. And you give fans like myself and many others who need an audio outlet to really feel the feels that they're feeling about their favorite shows. I love all y'all be kind and keep doing what you're doing because you're doing it. Well, thank you, Colin. That's really nice.

[01:00:39] That's really nice. Cheers, buddy. All right. Andrea Abarca says, hi, Jason, Lucy and the amazing cast of us gang. Wow, what an episode. I think I cried through most of it. It filled my heart to know that Ellie and Joel got to have some happy years together. The scene where she burns herself and he goes into full dad mode. And when he calls her baby girl, it gets me every single time.

[01:01:05] Using Ellie's birthdays as markers was such a brilliant way to show the passage of time and the evolution of their relationship.

[01:01:41] The lighting was such a powerful touch, too. And it's just a little bit of a happy moment. It's a beautiful way to show the story of each other. Completely breathtaking. You can tell how much they care about each other off screen and it radiates through their performances. I was so relieved Ellie came back that night and that they finally had that conversation. I cried the whole way through it. And knowing that she wanted to forgive him just makes Joel's death that much more devastating. Abby stole that moment from her, and I hate her even more now. I can't believe there's only one episode left.

[01:02:09] Anyway, you all continue to blow me away. Until next week, bye. P.S. One last thing. I could watch Pedro singing and playing the guitar all day. So thank you for that. The last of us. P.P.S. I just wanted to respond to something Jason said on the podcast, how this episode gives us one more day with Joel. What a beautiful thought. It's like a wish come true. If only we all had a chance to get one more day with someone we've lost. Glad we got to see him again.

[01:02:39] Although I think it just makes me sadder in some ways because it's so final. That was an awesome thought, Jason. Thank you. Yeah, it makes you sadder though. But I wish I had one more day with my grandpa so he can meet my kids because he would love them. Yeah, my grandmother would have loved my little girls. Okay, here's a call from Lisa. Hi, cast of us. This is Lisa.

[01:03:06] This is my feedback for season two, episode six, The Price. And I absolutely love the way this one started. Mostly the conversation between Joel and his father was very telling in how Joel has grown up to basically be this protector for his brother, for Ellie, for anyone he loves and cares about.

[01:03:35] And you could see it in action in this particular scene with the father. But what I found interesting was the watch. I didn't realize that Joel's watch came from his dad. For some reason I thought it was from his wife. But actually we get to see it firsthand. Working condition. Not damaged in any way for the first time.

[01:04:03] And then going through her birthdays was a lot of fun. And then on her 17th birthday where he kept... Wait a minute. In the premiere, the season one pilot, his daughter Sarah got his watch fixed for his birthday. Right. Okay, so it just was stopped and not... So we did see it working then, but I guess it came from his father. She got it fixed. That was the present. Yeah.

[01:04:31] Catches her with the other one. I don't know her name actually. But I didn't realize that the tattoo came from her. And the tattoo of the moth. Cat is her name. I don't think it means death. I think I saw something that it means something else, but it doesn't mean death. And then they... Pausing again. I looked that up and Neil Druckmann said, quote,

[01:05:01] There's something beautiful about moths, but they're drawn to things that are dangerous to them. That felt very Ellie. So I think it symbolizes attraction to things that might hurt her, like Joel or her pursuit of revenge. You know? I think it still could be kind of tangentially related to death because I think one of the reasons why moths have been associated with death is because they fly right into fire.

[01:05:30] Moth to the flame, you know? And there's a death's head moth. Oh, okay. So what? Does it look like a skull or something? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's markings. Over to the 19th birthday. And I knew that on episode one, when he was on the porch and she showed up, I knew that couldn't have been their last interaction.

[01:05:55] When she came back on the porch, right there, we realize, yes, Joel was pretty selfish. Especially since he's under the impression that this cure, that Ellie, a walking cure that she was, would have worked. When we all know it was a long shot and probably wouldn't have worked. But he's under the impression that it would have worked.

[01:06:22] And he selfishly took that away. Okay. So that kind of gives it a different perspective. But I think I still would have went and scorched earth on the whole thing. So I'm not one to talk. So I looked this up too. And Druckmann said, all I can say is our intent was that they would have made a cure.

[01:06:48] That makes it most interesting philosophical question for what Joel does. So that was his intent. Craig Mazin was a little less certain about that, but still sort of leaning in that direction too, for whatever that's worth. Yeah. When Marlene was explaining what they were going to do, she didn't seem very certain. So I think that's what people picked up on. Oh, really?

[01:07:15] I didn't feel like, I felt like it was like, we're going to try this. Oh, because what I remember is her saying that this is the most important thing and it could save humanity. No? Could. Yeah. Anyway, yeah. Could if it goes the way they think it's going to go. But obviously they haven't done it before. Right.

[01:07:38] I mean, you know, we know, like in the real world, you have to have all kinds of trials and... Work on monkeys. Yeah. And you need, and you have a lot of failure before you succeed and that kind of thing. In terms of Ellie and Dina's relationship, I see a lot of people having such dislike for it. Not because it's a queer couple.

[01:08:07] I see it as they more or less have an issue with it because they think it's out of place. It's boring. This, that, and the other. But I've kind of looked at it like teenage girls, queer, apocalyptic, surrounded by monsters, not a lot of options, not a lot of experience, and not a lot of maturity.

[01:08:32] So I think a lot of their actions are reflective of that. They grew up in a world with literal monsters and having to fight for their lives and all of that. So the placement of their love scenes and everything like that, you know, with the adrenaline and potentially losing one another, you know, all of that.

[01:08:58] I thought it was, it was exactly placed the way it needed to be based on all those parameters. But that's my thought. So I'm not disliking their relationship in any way. I don't find it out of place. I think it's sweet. But we will see. I think at the end, she was coming back to the theater. I think that's what that was. So I guess she handled Nora.

[01:09:29] Oh, maybe you, hopefully you guys will be able to answer that. All right. That's my two cents. Thank you. Bye. I think everyone says bye because of Renee, by the way, she started that. Oh, yeah, yeah. I guess I haven't been on social media as much as I used to be. And I guess I've missed all the negative comments, but I find them adorable.

[01:09:58] Well, again, I'm glad people, if like whenever I say anything negative about a show and people know, no, I don't feel that way, then I don't really feel compelled to try to make you feel bad about a show. But just sort of explaining what a little bit about why I feel that way is just like when Dina had Ellie at gunpoint and Ellie said, you know, I'll go to sleep and you'll see that when I

[01:10:28] wake up, I'll be myself. And she woke up and it was just a really tense situation. And she told the story about being immune. And I forget exactly the details, but then they just all of a sudden were all over each other. And it felt weird. Like, I don't know. Personally, if I'm in this like life or death situation, it feels like an emotional leap to jump to lust. I'm not judging it.

[01:10:55] It just doesn't like life or death goes right with lust. Yeah. And that's what some other people said. And there were definitely people who wrote in without hearing me talk about it that said the exact same thing that I'm saying. Yeah. Like that felt weird. And other people were like, no, I like it's high adrenaline. So I don't know. Maybe we all just have different experiences. I felt like it was the highs and lows. Like she had her. They went on this long journey together, probably building that bond back up and making her certain that that was what she wanted.

[01:11:25] Dina, I'm talking about. And then she lost her, meaning she's infected and I'm going to have to kill her. And then she got her back again. I got you back. I feel like it was the dramatic yo-yos of the feelings that brought that on. And then like saying, I'm going to be a dad that just felt off to me. Like you, you don't know. And then the next episode when they were like, she said, I love you. And she's like, you love me.

[01:11:54] And I'm like, hi. It might be, it just feels a little too cutesy. Like they're not quite finding for me a satisfying, like real feeling around this. But I, then there's other moments that I just love where they're just laying on the floor together and Dina had her head on Ellie's shoulder and had this top down view and it's, or just, I mean, I actually liked the whole like leading up to the relationship where Dina clearly knew that Ellie liked her, but was just sort of teasing her about the dance and everything. So I don't know.

[01:12:24] It's just a little uneven for me, but whatever. I'm glad that not everyone feels that way. Okay. Cygnet Emily linebacking says, Hey there again. I felt like I needed to write in for this episode because damn, that was like the most wonderful episode of TV I've ever seen as a 17 year old watching Ellie go through her teenage years and noticing how different she is from year to year was so beautiful and heartbreaking at the same time. One of my favorite parts of Ellie is her childishness and childlike wonder.

[01:12:53] That's a part of myself that I feel like I've lost a little and it breaks my heart. Everything just feels so serious and big right now. And I wish I could just go back and experience the joy, wonder and imagination Ellie had when she was 15 or 16. This Cygnet here is 17 years old writing, writing and stuff. I relate so much to the sudden switch in attitude when she's 17, especially towards my parents. I'm a total bitch to them sometimes, but I really don't want to be. I relate to that too. I remember it's almost like I can't help it.

[01:13:23] I appreciate them, but there's just so much built up anger in me for no apparent reason. I'm sure Ellie feels bad like I do because Joel is only trying to help her and show his love. Being a teenager is so confusing. One minute I feel like I'm experiencing the greatest happiness of my life. Like I could dance barefoot in a field forever and nothing matters. Then suddenly I'm full of sadness and anger and I don't even know where it comes from. I reminisce about memories from my childhood when things were simple.

[01:13:50] And my biggest decision was what colored pencil I should use. And I didn't care about anything. Now I care about so much and nothing at all. It's exhausting and strangely beautiful. Brian, you're able to articulate that better than I think most people your age, I would suspect. I would say so. The final scene, though heartbreaking, captures something powerful about growing up. Despite the betrayal Ellie feels, she begins to understand Joel. Not fully, but enough to consider forgiveness.

[01:14:17] That moment shows a kind of emotional maturity that doesn't come easily. Being able to see things from someone else's perspective, sit with the pain and still choose to try. That's what I look forward to as I get older. The ability to forgive, not because I agree with what someone did, but because I'm grown enough to understand why they did it. I have to, I mean, you're already, I think, more mature than a lot of people who are like two or three times your age. Just to be able to articulate that. I have to end my rambling here so the episode won't be six hours long.

[01:14:45] To summarize, I related to much of this episode and I thought it was a great representation of being a teenager and losing your quote spark. I see so much of myself in Ellie and strive to be as emotionally mature as her. Bye. That was really cool. That was really cool. If I had to give any advice to my 17-year-old self, I would say, enjoy the moment, be kind to yourself. Yep. It does get better.

[01:15:16] But I just really appreciate your perspective because most of us are older and it was really fun and interesting to hear someone Ellie's age write in and relate to it. I loved it. Thank you. Okay. Here's a call from Carly Jackson. Hello, Last of Us crew. This is Carly in Santa Fe and I want to talk about the price.

[01:15:41] So first of all, that scene when Ellie comes in with the burn and Joel says, baby girl, like my heart literally tried to pound itself out of my chest. Like, you know, I'd read about that sort of thing in books, but no, it's a real thing that can happen. It's a real feeling like my heart was leaping out of my chest. Oh, I didn't know that I was going to have that reaction. And then Gail reading Earth Abides. I was so excited because I never recognized books in TV shows.

[01:16:10] And that one I know because we did an episode on it on my book club podcast. And it's funny because the book is about trying to survive after civilization collapse. And I'm like, Gail, you're living this situation. You don't need to read a book about it. But then it made sense because Ish, the narrator, is trying so hard to preserve civilization for his kids and grandkids. And he doesn't quite succeed in teaching them what he wants to teach them.

[01:16:40] But they do learn from him. They learn something different. And so just that challenge of, from Gail's perspective, like she remembers civilization as it was. And so recognizing that what you remember might not necessarily be what the next generations need to continue to thrive. So I thought that might be interesting. And Jason, I hope I'd recommend finishing that book because, you know, you get through that first part. It's kind of a slog.

[01:17:10] It was a slog for me. But getting to that end, it had a real payoff or, you know, or you could just listen to my podcast episode about it. But and then, you know, the finale coming up, I don't know how I feel about it. But I think I'm sort of relieved that it'll be probably two years before the next season comes out because I think I need the full two years just to emotionally recuperate from this.

[01:17:35] So anyway, I'm sure it'll be devastating in the best possible way. And yeah, then then on to the next thing. All right. Bye. Thanks, Carly. Carly asked if she could mention the podcast. So I thought she would actually mention the name. I think it's book club. I'll look it up. But I'll put a link in the show notes because I think that's, you know, totally relates and seems like a good listen. Yeah. About Earth Abides.

[01:18:01] I love listening to people talk about books that I'm apparently incapable of reading now. We did Wendy and Wendy's daughter, Cassie, and I did The Lord of the Flies on our Yellow Jackets podcast. And that was a blast. I think that might have been the only time I've ever read. Yeah. It's been a while. I mean, I read some when I was traveling, but I didn't get very far.

[01:18:31] All right. Tam from Perth says, oh gosh, you guys, to see Pidger's name in the opening and this episode is what we all wanted and needed. Usually I can rattle off all of my observations and emotions that connect me to the story. But I have to admit, I was so drawn in immediately. Again, Joel's dad was perfectly cast in how the writers wrapped that part of his story from the start to the end. Could have been cliched or soppy or totally fucked it up, but I don't think they did.

[01:19:01] I even wondered when he put his hand on young Joel's shoulder and said, you'll do better than me if that was the same watch Joel still wears. And he was a great dad to Ellie while he had her or she him. I mean, to hear him call her baby girl and say, I love you was enough. But all of the birthdays really showed he knew her and wanted to know more of her. And he maybe not exactly the right timing for her 17th birthday, but he still came good and respected her growing up.

[01:19:31] I love Joel the fun dad. Those last moments on the porch, I'm so grateful to see into the truce of sorts between them. Knowing her last words to him weren't in anger was everything for me. And I'm sort of okay with his death now. My favorite part is painkiller stoned Ellie. It made me laugh and I'm not sure I've laughed too much watching the show. It reminded me of my own daughter getting her wisdom teeth removed

[01:19:58] and her giving us an hour of entertainment and a lifetime of laughs because she cried when she saw someone eating a banana in the car next to us. There's so much more I could say, except I can't read my scribbled points because of the blotted ink from a few teardrops. And truthfully, I was so absorbed. I just sunk in and enjoyed it. So I'll end with why on earth do you guys call Lego Legos? It's just Lego. Lego. It's very weird.

[01:20:28] And I thank Craig and Neil for not having anyone say Legos. Could have ruined my new favorite episode. Have a great week. What do you say? Who's Legos? I'm confused. Oh, there was some Legos in the episode, a bag of Legos. Oh, Legos. And Tam is like, you just said it again. Yeah, what do you say? I say Legos. Legos. Yeah, of course. Because we're not crazy. We're not crazy. Right? A single Lego?

[01:20:56] If you just had one Lego, what would you do? You would just be sad. I looked it up. And in the U.S., it's common to say Legos. I have some Legos. But I guess in other parts of the world, they use it like a mass noun, like sheep. You know? I have Lego. Yeah, so Lego is plural. Yeah. But I have some Lego. Yeah, that sounds weird.

[01:21:24] It sounds weird to us. But honestly, the, what do you call it? The Lego company itself says that it's supposed to be an adjective, as in I have some Lego bricks. They don't even consider it a noun at all. Maybe you don't either, Tam. I don't think you're really clear on that. But it's just one of those things that's different. Yeah, because no one says Lego bricks. Yeah. I mean, we're all going by America. So no one says Lego bricks.

[01:21:52] But, you know, there's just differences around the world. In Australia, they say biscuit for what we'd call a cookie or jumper instead of sweater. We say sweater. Yeah. Okay. It was great. Here's, yeah, always. Tam's always great. Here's another call. No. Well, here's a call from Carissa from Portland. Hey, everybody. It's Carissa from Portland. I really love this episode. I was tearing up at so many places.

[01:22:19] It was just so delightful to see how Joel showed his love for Ellie and how they used her birthdays to illustrate all of that. And I love Bella Ramsey so much. Their face is so cute. And their smile just lights up the screen. I love them as Ellie. And I don't care what these ashy, bitter incels say online. Screw them.

[01:22:43] So I think the main thing with Ellie's anger towards Joel is just the lying about the situations in Salt Lake City. And then Eugene kind of stirred all that up. I think Joel just needs to own his decisions. And if he thought that it was the right thing to do to take Eugene out, like the rules say, he should have just stood on business. You know, but we see in the flashback to when he was a teenager that he has a habit of lying to protect people. And that's just his thing, I guess.

[01:23:12] So I really love seeing the thread between his dad and his parenting of both Sarah and Ellie and of doing better than his dad and his dad doing better than Joel's grandfather. And it was just a great representation of how parenting should be. I also feel like Joel is very fragile. Like you never get over losing somebody. You just kind of live with it. And he chose to live with it in a different way before versus now with Ellie.

[01:23:41] And so I feel like if he got to the point where if he lost Ellie, he would have just folded, which is fine. Like you don't have to be strong. No judgment there at all. One pet peeve I do have is that when Ellie was questioning him about a cure, like his response was almost like, yeah, he would have been the cure. And I just feel like it was a strong possibility, a strong chance to create a vaccine or medication. It wasn't like a for sure deal.

[01:24:08] Like it could have taken 50 years or it could have not happened at all. Like we don't know. And so I hope we come back to the point that Marlene and her group were never straight up with Ellie. They never told her the truth. They just told Joel because they thought he didn't care about her, that he was dropping off a package. And so nobody gave her agency. And I don't even think it matters that we know now she would have been okay with it. It's just they were both wrong.

[01:24:36] And, you know, at least Joel did it because he loved her. Marlene did it, I guess, because she loved humanity. I don't know. Anyway, so that's all I got. I'm really sad. Next week is the last episode. I really enjoy watching this season and listening to your coverage. So love you guys. Bye. Hmm. Yeah. I'm glad you're watching the show and calling in. Carissa would call in for the Walking Dead rewatch too. Sounds good. A couple of great things you said there.

[01:25:05] I just hadn't occurred to me, at least not recently, that the reason why Marlene told Joel what was happening is because she didn't realize that Joel cared about Ellie, that he was just dropping off a package because I've been really judgmental about her for that. Like, man, you really blew it by telling him that. Why'd you do that? Yeah. Well, what else were they going to do? Not told? And say what? Say, yeah, she's in the OR.

[01:25:33] I mean, maybe, but you were going to have to face him at some point. Yeah. I think Marlene absolutely knew how he was going to react. That's why she started out the conversation with basically a gun in the room and didn't give him any choices and had people to back her up and then took him out. You know what I mean? I think she knew exactly how he was going to react.

[01:26:00] So, but I think clearly the smarter thing would have been to lie because look what happened. Or just shoot him. She could have done that. Yeah. That would have been the smartest thing. Second smartest thing would have been to lie. Third smartest or the dumbest, otherwise known as, is tell him exactly what you're doing so he can go kill everyone. I think she just thought she could handle it, but obviously she didn't know the depth.

[01:26:26] But I think she knew him enough to know that he would not have been okay with that plan. Yeah. I'm just saying if you, yeah, if you know that this is a guy who you trusted to bring this kid across the country because you know he's a badass and he can handle it and he can handle himself and he's ruthless and everything about Joel. Then why tell him minutes before this thing is supposed to happen and given the chance to potentially stop it, which he totally does. Yeah, that's true.

[01:26:54] She could have easily said they could have. It'll take a few hours. She didn't make it with there was complications. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So I, my lesson is you should lie. No, just kidding. Yeah. But what else? But yeah, I think you're right. She did it for, I'm talking to Carissa now that she did it for her love of humanity. I mean, she's part of the fireflies. They're fighting for freedom and hope and all those kinds of things.

[01:27:24] So, but nobody on this show is completely perfect or innocent. They all do things imperfectly. Just one of the reasons why I love it so much. You also mentioned how much she loved Bella and poo poo on people saying mean things. And I think I read that Bella deactivated their social media recently because of that. And it just made me feel really sad.

[01:27:46] And I want to let people know, let her, let Bella know how much we all, if it's true for you too, are loving what they're doing on this show. So I think that you guys should write to, um, Bella at podcast.com. Cause I'll get any email and that'll help me categorize them. Write something about how you think Bella's doing.

[01:28:15] Say it to them like Bella, you're this and that. So you're talking directly to Bella and then I'll send it to Bella's publicist to pass along to them. And, uh, hopefully that'll get to them. Cause I just think it would be good. Maybe Bella already gets this, but just to get to know that there's people out here who really like what they're doing. Yeah. I mean, it's just crazy.

[01:28:45] The viciousness that's out there today. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's amplified for sure. In this. Yeah. Right now in this era. Yep. It's a permission to be an asshole. Yep.

[01:29:31] Okay. We're back now. It's time for some game talk. And I'm pretty sure that this is not spoilery for future events in the game. Most of these talk about things that have happened in the game so far. And how they compare to the show. But if you don't want to risk being spoiled or inferring things or whatever, then you should probably stop listening right now. And thanks for listening. We'll see you next time. Okay.

[01:29:56] Russ folks says just this Saturday, I was telling my friend that she would probably like a slice of Lalo Salamanca as she would like a large slice of Pedro. So this week's episode opening blew my mind. What a coincidence. Gotta love Tony. Absolutely agree. I wasn't a fan of the reshuffling of certain scenes as I felt one that was shown was in a much better place in the game and had a huge emotional impact in its original place. But I'll wait and see what they'll do with that change.

[01:30:23] Well, he's talking about the scene on the porch, which came much later in the game. But I don't want to say why it had a huge emotional impact at that point, because that would ruin everything. I'm just surprised this episode was in the game. Like, it just seems such not a game. Yeah. You know? Well, this game is the most cinematic game I've ever seen.

[01:30:49] And, you know, it's not a huge surprise to me that it's one of the few successes of transferring a game to a show because it's already feels like a show or a movie. But there's a lot of cut scenes. And so you're not actually playing a lot of it. Or, you know, I don't know, like with the whole museum thing, you are walking around and exploring the museum. And then. That's so cool. It's really cool. Yeah. And you can go over and pick up the helmet and put it on.

[01:31:19] You can choose whichever one you want. Oh, that's so cute. Yeah, it's really neat. Wyman Owen says, I'm on a motherfucking dinosaur. Oh, wow. I'm not one who enjoys slower episodes, but I absolutely love this one. I'm almost at a loss of words to describe it. I think I used up all the good adjectives for the previous episodes. From start to finish, it was so well done. All the scenes, all the emotions, everything.

[01:31:46] My favorite was the moon landing when Ellie was listening to the tape and put herself in that moment. Amazing. Copy and paste right from the game. And I loved it. The way Ellie just dove into her birthday cake was pretty funny. I loved that part. I chuckled at that one. But so many game moments. Carbon copies. And they translated so good. Hit me in the feels during the scene on the porch. Pedro and Bella knocked that one out of the park.

[01:32:16] Joel sang the song. Joel sang the song. Awesome. Lastly, as the flashbacks progressed, you could see Ellie's demeanor change. From the first one where she was all happy and bubbly to the last one where she was full of hate and distrust. It was portrayed superbly by Bella. I'm sad because there's only one episode left. But I love this show and the game so much that I'll dig in and prepare to wait for season three. Can't wait to hear everyone's thoughts. Love ya. May your survival be long.

[01:32:46] It's pun time. How are the movies Titanic and the sixth sense alike? I see dead people. I see. That's pretty good. I see why. I see dead people. I like that one. Yeah. Okay. Brooks Skivers says, hi everyone. I'm so glad I found this podcast. My obsessing over every scene was starting to drive my husband crazy. While I love the games, I've tried not to be overly critical when they diverge from the games.

[01:33:15] Some of their changes I even love. However, the change in Eugene's death has bothered me from the beginning. Now that I see why they changed it and how it fits into the show's overarching story, I'm a little more understanding. But I still think it's taken something away from Ellie's story. In the game, Eugene is only ever mentioned in passing as Dina's old patrol partner. The discussion of his death goes something like this. Ellie, I think we should all go out like Eugene. Dina, from a stroke? Ellie, no, from old age.

[01:33:42] To me, this conversation is so important in seeing where Ellie's mind is at. She feels guilty about how many people are dying of infected bites while she's immune. We see this a couple more times during the game. Her questioning Joel while she's never met any other immune people. Saying if only they were immune when they find the teenagers who ran away from Jackson but got bit. It's not just that Joel took away her opportunity for her life no matter when he saved her. Except for everyone else on earth being bitten is a death sentence except for her.

[01:34:12] And she feels guilty about that. If they'd been able to make a cure, no one would have to worry about being bitten ever again. Though the world will still be super fucked up and the cordyceps are crafty motherfuckers. So they'd probably evolve in a different way. Anyway, that's my two cents. Wish they could have kept Eugene's story the same or at least let Ellie and Dina have that old age conversation about another person. Looking forward to getting back to the action next week. Endure and survive. Brooke. I mean, I think it still kind of functioned that way, Brooke. Because she didn't say it explicitly.

[01:34:42] But my reading is that anytime anyone gets bitten, that Ellie thinks about that if Joel had done what she considers the right thing, that that wouldn't happen. So here, Eugene dies. And I think she's like, hey, Eugene would have survived if not for you, Joel. But I still, yeah, I like what you said about that old age conversation. And maybe they'll have that at some other point in the show or something.

[01:35:09] Also, you probably talked about this on the podcast, but Eugene, the actor. Yeah. Joe Pantaleone. So Ralph Zifaretto. Yeah. On The Sopranos. That's where I remember him from. Okay. God, I didn't even remember he was in that. He loved that role. He was the one in The Matrix who chose the other pill, the blue pill. Yeah.

[01:35:38] He plays a good, bad guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he was great in this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I saw him and I couldn't picture where I knew him from. I had to look him up. Of course, it was Ralph Zifaretto. All right. Brett from Wisconsin says, hi, everyone. This week's episode was another great one. I still feel like most of the major plot lines are better presented in the game, but I certainly don't dislike the show's version of events.

[01:36:04] I think in general, the game had much more time to flesh things out. So inevitably, the show feels a little rushed in comparison. I understand the people that don't like that they've made show Ellie dumber, more reckless, and I agree to an extent, but I'm actually enjoying the change. First off, my justification is that show Ellie is like a fun run Ellie. For my first playthrough, I'll play it smart and stealthy. So when I think of Ellie as a character, that's what I picture.

[01:36:34] But once I've finished the game playing it seriously, I'll load up new game plus and have a good old fashioned fun run. I'll take my upgraded guns and equipment, maybe turn on the infinite ammo cheat if I'm feeling squirrely and go to town on any living being that's put in front of me without a care in the world. I picture show Ellie having that same mentality.

[01:36:58] She's a pissed off, overconfident 19 year old who's also immune and her best and only plan of action is be ready to shoot. Which leads me to the other reason I like dumb Ellie. It gives Dina much more agency in the show. In the game, it felt like Dina was almost exclusively there as moral support for Ellie. Having Dina be the one that has to pull Ellie back and slow her down gives a new angle to a character that I already loved.

[01:37:26] I like that the show really spells out the fact that Ellie wouldn't have even survived the first leg northwest to Seattle if she were on her own. Plus, I really hope they finish Dina's backstory and tell us how she ended up in Jackson as an eight year old alone from Santa Fe. Loved seeing the spores thrown in there too. Since the show didn't tell us otherwise, I'm still choosing to believe Shimmer got out of

[01:37:51] the record store and is living her best life running around the deserted parts of Seattle not being bothered by anyone. I do really try to cut these emails down, but evidence would suggest I'm not very good at it. Love the podcast. Thanks, Brett. I mean... Shimmer's fine. Yeah. So is the German Shepherd we saw. All fine. That's where we saw Shimmer last. Yeah. In the record store. I forgot. Eating hay. I think it's cool. Yeah.

[01:38:21] The whole thing, the dynamic between Ellie and Dina is different in those ways than the show and the game. And I like both. I like the game and I don't necessarily prefer one over the other. I think it's interesting to have Dina be clearly more skilled at planning and things that require patience. But Ellie's more of a quick actor when she needs to be under pressure. And in the game, it's not quite like that. They're both just kind of almost the same.

[01:38:52] But both are cool. I like Dina's character. Me too. I liked when she was looking for her protractor. I thought that was neat. And she's just a charmer and fun. And I like her. Casey from Detroit says, hello, Podcastica crew. Casey from Detroit back again with some thoughts about episode five. I loved it. So far, episode four is still my favorite of the season. But the story is progressing wonderfully. And I'm glad you enjoyed my thoughts on episode four.

[01:39:20] I'm enjoying the show more and more, especially the Dina and Ellie of it all. There's something in particular I'd like to focus on first. The show has portrayed Ellie as someone who needs more help than she's willing to ask for. They're not depicting her as unintelligent. She simply grew up in relative comfort. She went to a Fedra military school, not to become a scholar or academic, but to be trained as a soldier or worker. Fedra doesn't need intellectuals. They need grunts. And indoctrinated children are easily grunts to produce.

[01:39:46] That seems to be a recurring theme throughout all groups in the last of this universe, oddly enough. It's important to remember that Ellie's very knowledgeable about the things that fascinate her. Dinosaurs, space, music. These are her passions. In the QZ, those were likely the only things that brought her joy. Ellie's a product of her environment. And that's why Dina's knowledge stands in such contrast. I don't know. I think you might be right about that.

[01:40:15] But I think there's probably some kids who went to Fedra that weren't as restless as Ellie, that Ellie's a particularly restless person. I think a lot of people are like that. Like Ezra Klein. I don't know if you listen to him, but he's a New York Times columnist who has this great podcast. And he's brilliant. But he says he was horrible in school. And it was all about just finding the thing that really interested him and drove him.

[01:40:43] You know, that's how it is for a lot of people, if not most, where you might seem dumb if you're being set there in a class, forced to study things that you don't care at all about. But once you find your thing, then you're great. You know? Yeah. I think not doing well in school is not necessarily a litmus of intelligence and ambition. Bodhi has trouble.

[01:41:10] He's my eight-year-old and he can't sit still, but he's a whiz at Minecraft. And, you know, like just, I see him getting into how things work and when he's interested in it, he can do great. So I'm not really too worried that he's not an A student in school. I think that's a lot of cases. Like my husband was bored in school and said he hated people telling him what to do.

[01:41:37] And I'm sure the schools weren't top notch and he didn't do well in school at all, but he's, you know, he's really, really smart and always has been. And, you know, I think it's just not a litmus. Yeah. You know? Right, right, right. Casey goes on. With more of Dina's backstory, we learned she lost her family at eight. While we don't know exactly when she arrived in Jackson, we do know it was before Ellie got there. That means at some point that little girl had to survive on her own.

[01:42:04] From what I can tell, Dina's actually the more hardened survivor. She just doesn't need to flaunt it. Like many young survivors in apocalyptic settings, she may have picked up skills from random helpful strangers. Or maybe her family was nomadic and her mother taught her how to plan roots and stay hidden. Ellie didn't have to learn how to survive in the real world until she met Joel. Dina, on the other hand, has known how since childhood. Ellie and Dina are two sides of the same coin. They both know how to survive, but they do it in very different ways.

[01:42:34] This version of Dina is the one who keeps the player, Ellie, from dying early in her grounded permadeath run. And that's one thing that makes the TV adaptation even more enjoyable. There's no responding. In a way, their character... That means you can't come back to life after you die, by the way, in case you didn't know. Right. In a way, their characterizations personify play styles. Ellie's the aggressive, charge-in, head-first player. It's easier and often how a lot of us play. That's the only way I can play. I'm no good at stealth.

[01:43:04] Dina's the stealth mechanic. She's the planner, the one with forethought. She's calm, strategic, even embodying the listening mode gameplay mechanic. Yeah, that's a great point. Love it, Casey. Rick White says, Hello, everyone. I knew this episode was going to hurt, and well, it did. A lot. The writers of this show really like to dig into the emotional aspects of these characters, and I appreciate that immensely. I love that they explored Joel's character more than they did in the game.

[01:43:34] Not knocking the game, it's my favorite of all time. But this medium supports deeper exploration, giving us viewers a glimpse of Joel's childhood and who his father was created a greater sense of understanding. Objectively, his dad still isn't doing a great job as a father by simply not abusing his children. He even gives his child a beer. Again, not good. But there's a vulnerability he allows himself to show in that moment.

[01:44:02] I feel like men have an easier time expressing anger. Normally, that anger stems from fear. It's more acceptable for us to express in front of other men because it's relatable. My father carried a lot of anger. Growing up in my house felt like a pot constantly on the verge of boiling over. It felt like we were always walking on eggshells. There are tons of stories, but I think you get the picture. He was a complicated man, as we all can be.

[01:44:31] Something therapy has taught me is that when we are able, we should extend grace. My father's generation wasn't encouraged to go to therapy. Their childhood trauma wasn't something to explore and reconcile with. It was something you packed deep inside and dealt with on your own. It's fucked up, but that was just the way it was. Even though therapy is more acceptable now, it's still something we all need better access to, availability of, and affordability for.

[01:45:00] My dad wasn't perfect, but while he was here, he tried. And now, as a father, I'm trying my best, too. I hope you do a little better than me. And all the parents watching said, damn. The flashbacks were beautiful. I loved the format of this episode and the way they unveiled this part of Joel and Ellie's story. Each birthday was bittersweet, revealing the unconditional love he felt for her as he got older and changed. The Eugene scene was touching in a dark way.

[01:45:30] Joel's lies catch up to him. The moment with Ellie exposing his lies to Gail, while also letting on that she knows he lied about the fireflies, was a clever way to handle that conflict. But what I appreciated most was the last moment between Joel and Eugene. If you love someone, you can always see their face. How many times has Joel seen Sarah's face? It hurt, but I liked it. Probably one reason why I'm in therapy. LOL. LOL.

[01:46:00] And then the porch scene. This scene wrecked us gamers, and now it's come for the viewers. I love that they incorporated the Salt Lake flashback here. It makes more sense to me narratively for the show. Watching Joel struggle to tell the truth was heartbreaking. And then he uttered, Because I love you. And the tears started rolling. Joel wasn't perfect, but while he was here, he tried. Our children really don't understand the lengths we'd go for them.

[01:46:28] I just hope that when it's my kids' turn to be a parent, if they decide to, they do a little better than I did. Beautiful episode. Thank you for everything you do. Until next time, don't get bit. Ricky. Oh, thank you so much. That's so sweet. I agree. Our kids don't know what it's like until they're older. Until they're parents. Yeah. Yep. In some ways. I think even when you get older, until you have kids.

[01:46:58] Because my friend Danny, he visits his dad who's aging. And then he'll come to me and tell me, Oh God, my dad is such a pain in the ass. And I'm like, you better show your dad some kindness. He's done a lot for you. Yep. All right. That is our show. Episode 648. Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

[01:47:28] Thank you, Wendy, for coming on. I'm glad you were able to do it. Yeah. It was fun. I didn't realize it was only seven episodes. So I thought we had like three more to go. Oh man. Yeah. Yeah. That's a bummer. I mean, they said the reason why they did it is because it ended on a story point that they felt like was a good ending. Sure.

[01:47:53] I mean, does this season encompass the second part of the game or the second edition of the game? No. It's just a part of it. Oh, wow. Because there's two games. There's only two games. Right. The first game was the first season and the second game is much bigger. It's a much bigger game. I did not realize that. Do you think there will be more than the game? No.

[01:48:22] Or do you think they'll stop at the end of the second part of the game? They've said they won't do more than the game, but my hope is, and there's been rumors that Naughty Dog is working on a third game and I hope it lines up so they can keep doing it on the show. I don't know if that's going to happen, but that's what I hope. Yeah. That's interesting. Because Neil Druckmann said he has a good idea for the third game. So you'd think they would go ahead and make it then.

[01:48:52] Oh, I can't. I mean, it's wildly popular. I can't imagine. There's just all this conflicting information. Like Neil Druckmann said, I have an idea for a game and I have it laid out. But then he also, we know Naughty Dog's working on this sci-fi game right now that looks like similar story type game to The Last of Us, but in space. And the woman who plays Nora is the lead character in this game. She plays the lead character. They've just shown a trailer so far.

[01:49:21] So we know they're already working on that, but they can work on more than one thing at once. So I don't know. We'll just have to wait and see. Next episode of this podcast, we'll be talking about The Last of Us Season 2, Episode 7, the Season 2 finale. Wow. If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at thecastofus.com. And while you're there, of course, please check out our other podcast. I mean it. Check them out. Which one should they check out? Handmaid's Tale.

[01:49:49] I can't think of much else these days. One more episode and that's the last episode of that show. Yeah. So it's the perfect time to get in on it. No, I don't know. It's been a great season. I mean, I personally think it might be one of the best shows ever. So start it. I didn't know that. Yeah. I didn't know you felt that strongly about it. I love it.

[01:50:15] I watched the finale and I think it might be the best show ever. Wow. I used to say that was Game of Thrones. And we know the ending was on even. Then we watched that finale. So. Yeah. So I'm going to say this one's better. That's cool. I like that. Yeah. Also, I mean, we just found out Yellow Jackets season four got renewed for season four and

[01:50:39] Wendy and Daphne and Penny and I podcast about that show on Yellow Jackets WTF, which you can also find at podcast.com. This episode is made possible by Patreon supporters like Debra Omer, who pledges support at Patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi. So thank you to Debra. Prices on that may be going up soon, but most likely not if you already signed up. So get in there before they go up.

[01:51:08] And thank you to everyone else who's already doing it. I appreciate it. Join the Zed to Head group. We have tons of fun. Yeah, we do. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. Don't get bit, BrooksGivers.