20. "A Question of Crimson" (The Wheel of Time S3E2)

[00:00:05] Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast. I'm Greg. And I'm Veronica. And this is The Wheel

[00:00:31] of Time cast. And this week we're covering The Wheel of Time Season 3 Episode 2 A Question of Crimson. And this was more characters, more crazy strong presences on screen. I feel like this is, I don't want to say like a setup episode, but I'll tell you what, that beginning,

[00:00:56] that opening scene was pretty good for shock value. But before we get too deep into it, you want to give us what Amazon says? Yeah. All right. So in-depth Amazon summary. A dangerous visitor comes to the White Tower. Perrin returns home. Rand and Egwene forged her own path under Moraine's watchful eye. The end. I mean, this is actually like pretty

[00:01:25] like reasonably accurate. Just, you know, not very detailed. So I will just elaborate on those with my summary. Queen Morgase of Andor brings her family and advisor from the White Tower looking to find her daughter Elaine. The Amarillian seat assigns a dangerous task to Nynaeve and Elaine. Rand and company make the trek over the spine of the world, fighting dreams and with their purpose.

[00:01:51] Perrin, Loyal, Bane, and Chiad make it to the rivers to an unwelcome reception and unexpected company. And Matt reconnects with Ben and struggles with his memories and competition in Elaine's brothers. Which I thought was a, actually a really, really funny scene. Um, uh, in a couple, in a couple of aspects, um, but, uh, yeah. So, so how'd you like this?

[00:02:21] You know, like for an episode that sort of like you said, I don't feel like it like necessarily progressed the story forward a huge amount. Um, but I still thoroughly enjoyed it. I liked what like character development we got. I really enjoyed getting to know more about Elaine and her backstory. Um, and I left the episode very excited to get back to episode three. So I think that's a

[00:02:48] sign of a good episode. Um, so yeah, overall, I really liked it. Yeah. I mean, I would, I would agree with that. Um, that I, I think that there was definitely some excitement and just returning the world in episode one. Um, and for me seeing more characters come to life and, uh, you know, finding out a little bit more, there were some really funny

[00:03:14] comparisons in my head, um, to some of the characters and they weren't ones that I necessarily expected to have. Um, so, uh, so before we, before we get too deep in, um, do you have any questions that you, you want to ask? How about if you just like general questions that I think would help me in resetting some

[00:03:41] things? And I think it's stuff that I should know from last season that I just need a refresher on. So I couldn't remember the full significance of Andor and what, like the dominion of Queen Morgays and eventually Elaine actually is versus like, they're just a good ally to have, or they

[00:04:06] actually hold dominion over this entire land that we're in. Like, I just didn't have a good understanding of how big her dominion is as a queen. Okay. No, that's, that's a, that's a pretty good question. Um, so, so, and Amazon actually has like the maps on Amazon prime that are very, very helpful.

[00:04:31] Um, but so the, this land mass is, uh, split up into, I think seven or eight different countries. Um, I, if I'm just assuming that it's something like the size of the U S from coast, from coast to coast. And so tier would be like Florida, not like Florida, but like the location of Florida, um,

[00:04:57] uh, tier and an alien would be like down in the Southeast. Uh, she and R would be like Illinois, Montana, Wisconsin, um, or Minnesota. Uh, yeah. Uh, and then like, like the, the kind of the, the middle and down into the Southwest, like from like Oklahoma down towards like the Southern

[00:05:25] tight end of California, like Nevada and Arizona and New Mexico. Um, so, and the, and then tar Valon, I believe is kind of like DC where it's its own entity. Okay. Um, it doesn't reside in a country per se. Um, there are mountains too. You can see, uh, the dragon Mount like

[00:05:53] behind it, like the mountain in the, in the background. Um, but I, I believe it was a little bit South. And I think, I believe that Camelon would be like up in that Oklahoma style area. Um, and, and so you're talking a relatively large area, which means that, you know, kind of like back in the, you know, the old West days in the 1800s, you wouldn't really see

[00:06:21] a tax person or someone who would like a Queens representative or whatever in these far reaches of the land. So if, if you said that like the Colorado was, was like where the mountains of mist and the two rivers are, um, then, and you know, Oklahoma is, and they're all riding on horses. They're not in cars. They're not in planes. They're not in trains. Um, you would,

[00:06:48] you wouldn't necessarily like even recognize like, like, uh, Egwene is like, like Elaine last season was like, you're my subject. And she's like, I ain't your shit. Like, uh, yeah. Okay. Um, so yeah. So, so it's, she is a queen in one of the, one of the number of countries. Um,

[00:07:17] and, um, and her, so her, her sway, you know, she is a very public figure. She is a queen of a country that is sizable and has a lot of resources and a lot of, a lot of money. Um, and so, which is why the Alliance between Tar Valon or the white tower and Andor is so important.

[00:07:40] Um, okay. Makes sense. All right. Um, my next question, I'll, I'll do this one because I think it's in line with this of just, can you quickly, like, I do remember this because I just was rewatching season one and a few of those little like Amazon shorts, but I just thought for like everybody else who may not have thought about this since season one, um, it was brought up as they were sort of

[00:08:09] going back to the two rivers about the city of Minetherin. And can you just like, give us the like two minute summary of the significance of that? Sure. Uh, and this is kind of the, and I believe that there's actually a, one of the Amazon shorts on it, but this was the story that Moiraine, uh, told, um, where, uh, you know, they, the, the dark ones forces were coming and they

[00:08:35] sent for aid and, uh, the, the King and queen, uh, the, the queen was back at the stronghold and the King was like on the ground. And so they held for, for three days or, you know, for like three, at first it was like three hours and then six hours and then nine hours and then three days and then six days. And then like on the 10th day, they realized no help was coming. And, uh, because I,

[00:09:01] I believe that because the queen had bonded the King as a warder, um, she felt him die. And so she, you know, drew in more than the power, more of the power that she could handle blew all of the trollocs and all of the, the shadow spawn and all of the dark ones forces, um, across the river.

[00:09:23] And the, the army of Minethryn gave up basically each, um, each inch of land was given up by in gallons of blood. So for every, every inch that the shadow took, they, they paid for it in blood. And, and then eventually, you know, all of the, all of the, uh, the, the small portion that survived,

[00:09:49] um, they basically got, they escaped and exited Minethryn down like the back of the mountain or something like that. I think it was called mountain home, I believe is what Minethryn meant in the old tongue. And, and so they, you know, left and then resettled, um, elsewhere, like elsewhere in the area. And then their ancestors are now the people of the two rivers. Right. Awesome. Thank you.

[00:10:20] Okay. And then my next question, like, I don't know if you can really answer this. I think I meant it more from like, not from your super, from your book knowledge, but just, is there some obvious thing I'm not thinking of as to how you would expose a black Aja or a black friend, a dark friend, other than just like spot traditional spying and trying to catch them in doing something

[00:10:47] like tricky? There's not some like tell for a black Aja is there? So it's very specifically like the, the easy one is lying. If you can catch them in a flat out lie. Because I said, I can't lie. Because I said, because the oath rod, that means that if they, if they say the sky is green,

[00:11:14] when the sky is in fact blue, then, um, then they are, you know, they, they are not bound by whatever oath. Oh my God. I felt like I need to go rewatch the episode and like reanalyze every single thing, every eyes that I said now. It's, it's hard because I, and I, I've, I've noticed, I've noticed myself kind of listening to what they're saying. So like when I rewatched, uh, episode eight, like the finale of season one

[00:11:43] and land came and, uh, you know, where's Rand and like the, the look on Brian's face, he didn't say, you know, she didn't say he died. She just like the, the, between the look on her face and the words he's gone. Um, it was like, Oh, okay. And then as I was rewatching, I think a part

[00:12:08] of season two, she went to go say something and then she could tell that she like changed the words maybe. Oh no, it was actually that same scene because, um, it sounded like he, she was going to say, you know, the dark one stilled me or something like that. But then she changed it to, I can't touch

[00:12:31] the source, which is a hundred percent accurate. Like that is, that is absolutely what the, the truth of the matter was. The truth, the true statement is I can't touch the source. The reason for that you know, you, you may not necessarily know, but again, we go back to the whole idea of can, you know, if, if they believe something is true, then can they still say that if they believe

[00:12:59] that it's true? Um, or if like in the, the movie liar, liar, like he said, Oh, is that true? Well, I said it. So it must be true. Not necessarily. If you know that it's something, or if you think that something's true, I believe that. Yeah. That you can't purposely lie or you can mislead the hell out of people, but. Hmm. Yeah. Interesting. I think that's such an

[00:13:24] interesting part of this whole concept of the Aes Sedai and having to really think about the way that they're saying things. Right. It's just fascinating. Oh, you have a sister in the city. All Aes Sedai are my sisters. I consider all of them my sisters. And so, yes, I do have a sister in the city. Yeah. Like you could say that's a lie, but it all depends on your perspective.

[00:13:54] Awesome. Well, those are my three questions. Okay. Great answers. Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. Um, all right. So I think at this point we should go ahead, take a quick break. Uh, I don't think this is going to take crazy long. Um, but, uh, I think that we'll take a short break and then we'll, we'll get back and do it with our points.

[00:14:16] Awesome. Okay. And we are back. Um, all right. So we're going to go ahead and get into our discussion points. Now, as I said, we will be, we're kind of changing it up a little bit. Um,

[00:14:40] we're going to talk about, uh, more gaze and Elida and like the, what was going on in the white tower. Um, cause it's all kind of based around the black Aja and you know, what had happened previously. So, um, what are like, how about, how about you start? Yeah. Um, let's just like start at the beginning and talk about that crazy opening scene with Queen

[00:15:07] Morgays taking the throne 20 years ago in Andor and literally cutting out any of her competition. Like literally just cutting them out. I, you know, it felt, it felt very game of like in general, I think the entire Royal family and Andor feels very like game of Thrones coded and that specific action really like felt that. And it felt darker than

[00:15:34] this show usually feels. I mean, I know we've had lots of like gruesome deaths and battles and it's not like, it's like a light show by any means, but like the moment of them, like as soon as you see them cover the young Prince's eyes, like, you know, something really bad is about to happen. And I mean, man, they just like took out some young girls right in front of everybody. Like it was pretty dark, pretty intense.

[00:16:04] Well, the girl goes brother. And then he stabs her in the neck. I was like, Oh my God. Like the, like I think that I, I feel like the, the one on our left, right from the Queens left, it was like maybe like a family friend or a trusted advisor or something like that, uh, in the middle

[00:16:30] with the grandmother and what seemed like a house Kieran. I think that was what, what she said. Um, that house, it was like, Oh, it was the mother and the daughter. Um, and it was, I feel like they were either, either like, uh, supporting people or whatever, but then like the young girl, like it was her brother who straight up just murdered her. It was like, Oh my God.

[00:16:59] Yeah. Very, very intense. Really drove home Elaine's point last week that she was trying to make to Rand about having learned, like having to hurt some people for the greater good, you know, like, like to the extreme, right? Like she's seen or learned about her mother doing this, like to the

[00:17:21] absolute extreme. Like I don't, Morgueis is a hard character for me to read completely. She's very veiled. I think like she doesn't really let, I think when I saw her true emotions show for just a glimpse at the very end of the episode for a moment, otherwise she's very composed and put together. So like, I don't really know how she feels about the way that she has to rule, but from the daughter

[00:17:49] that she's raised to Elaine, who's been much more expressive with her emotions, like it makes me think that even though Morgueis has this very, very hard exterior, that maybe she doesn't truly take pleasure in the harsh actions she does, but she sort of puts her duty to being a ruler above all. But I might have the completely wrong read on her, but I'm basing that off of like, you've raised this

[00:18:16] daughter to rule in your, in your stead someday. And she has these values, like, if not from you, obviously there are other people in her life, but I don't know. It made me wonder if Morgueis's tough exterior is really the full story. Yeah. I mean, I'll be honest. I'm not sure. Um, there were things in the book that kind of intimated

[00:18:44] that this, something like this may have happened. Um, but it was never blatantly spelled out or anything like that. So, so like, it's kind of like what, when people refer to like a bloodless revolution, it's never actually bloodless. It's just, you know, you like avoided a war. Yeah, exactly. Like it's a, it's a matter of, Hey, some people, some individuals were murdered

[00:19:12] in cold blood after being forgiven, uh, for their, their sins, um, in order to prevent war in the future. And so like, it's, uh, the, the one in particular that I have heard quite a bit cause I lived there for a while was in Hawaii. They refer to, you know, us history books talk about a bloodless revolution or a, a, a bloodless transfer of power. And it absolutely was not,

[00:19:40] it was, it was, it was 100% like the U S was the bad guys. Uh, and I mean, and, and, and, uh, I, I, I, I'm going to say, I get it from a strategic point of view. I get it, but it just, you oppress an entire group of people or entire country. Um, it makes it, it makes it hard to,

[00:20:05] to, to think to yourself. Yeah. We're, you know, you, we were raised to believe that, Hey, we're fighting for democracy. We're fighting for freedom. We're fighting for whatever. And you realize that that wasn't always the case. Um, but regardless, uh, yeah, that was like, I, I sent to a friend of mine who, you know, we are big wheel of time friends and I sent, uh,

[00:20:32] uh, one of the straight out of GOT straight out of Compton things. I was like, like, that's what that was. Yeah. Like, I think I said earlier, like it should have had the reins of Castamere playing in the background. Right. A lot of the, uh, a lot of their family was very, very Lannister,

[00:20:55] uh, Lannister coded. Yeah. So let's talk about their family. Um, so we have Morghese who is the, the, the queen, uh, Morghese trickhand. Um, and then you have her advisor who was obviously there 20 years ago when she took the throne. Apparently she helped her take the throne. She, I mean, if, if she is kind of cold blooded or whatever, then she may very well may have been the input that helped

[00:21:24] her gain the throne. Um, uh, so that is Elida, um, Elida Sadai of the, the red Aja. And then you have, uh, Prince Galad, uh, Prince Gawain and Lord Gabriel, or Gabriel, um, who is the Prince Consort.

[00:21:47] Um, and so the, the notes that I have on, so like the notes I have on like my interactions with Elaine, it seems that Elaine and Gawain or Gwen or, or whatever are really, really close. Like she referred to him as idiot. Um, and you know, shouldn't you be scrubbing some floors? Um, it seems very

[00:22:14] typical brother, sister, like jabs. Yeah. Um, Galad was just kind of a douche, like very know-it-all, like, uh, like an, an older brother who is just like, uh, I can't, I told you so. Like he's that kind of guy. And then Gabriel, Gabriel was just like, they had, it was just like a weird greeting between them. Well, her brothers are basically like the worst iteration of a Disney Prince like

[00:22:41] possible. Like it's just over the top, but yeah, I, I, like I had a whole point pulled out, like who is Lord Gabriel, Prince Consort of the Queen? Cause a lot of people had very interesting interactions with him without a lot of explanation. Like obviously he's the consort of the Queen,

[00:23:00] but like, even like as he came into, um, meet, uh, yeah, the hall, Leanne, Leanne, Leanne sort of stumbled on his introduction, but then seemed to greet him somewhat warmly, like seemed more pleased to see him than the rest of the Royal crew. And then Elaine, there was like something

[00:23:30] weird, but she seemed to get along with him quite well. Like she said they like to drink together. Like they seem to have a nice little rapport, like the times that she spoke with him throughout the episode. But like, it just felt like there was more to this person that I, that like I wanted to know. And now like he's gone again. So I don't know. It was just very interesting.

[00:23:52] Yeah. Like he, uh, specifically like you could, you could see that they had a rapport when they were sitting and talking to each other. Yeah. And like, they talked about like important things. And so like, okay. You know, it, it was, it was specifically the greeting that I was like, that's just weird. And then, yeah, like Leanne said, I, you know, like, Oh, forgive me Lord

[00:24:18] Gabriel. Okay. That's weird. And then even Swan was like, Oh Lord Gabriel. So happy to see you. All right. Yeah. It was all just, it felt like there was like a lot of history there that like, I wanted to understand and I don't know if we'll get more of, but it was interesting.

[00:24:37] Um, yeah. And then I like, is, so this is, I thought that the initial interaction in the hall was really funny where like Morgueis is outside and she's like, let's go. And then Swan's like, not yet.

[00:25:01] Yeah. Like it was such a power play, like such like, um, you know, she can wait. She needs to be reminded that while she is a queen, she's not a, she's not the ruler of this tower kind of moment. Like, uh, Hey, if you're not going to send me a letter, then, uh, you can wait an extra 12 seconds. Like, uh, yeah, it was, uh, uh, I was like, those, that was pretty ballsy. I mean, don't get me wrong.

[00:25:25] Like you express your power when you have it. Um, but, uh, uh, I will flat out like this, I'm going to die on this hill. Like Morgueis absolutely looked like the queen of hearts with her. Yeah. Like I was like. Her weird, like angel wing thing. Yeah. It was like, almost like a veil and like crazy paper mache shoulder pads or whatever. And she was angry. Yeah.

[00:25:52] It was like waiting for off with her head. I get it. It was, it was absolutely. And then, you know, all of the red, uh, because of, of, of Andor and the red and gold, but it was really wacky. Um, I thought it was, it made me laugh, which didn't feel like it should have. Yeah. It was interesting. It was very interesting is I was trying to understand the reason for

[00:26:19] the title of the episode, a question of crimson. And I thought it could be because Andor seems to be their color is crimson, but then there's also like Ryan's crimson hair or just like crimson blood killing people. Like I just wasn't sure. Or did you understand?

[00:26:41] My, my, my guess would be the, like, what is the red Aja doing? Oh yeah. The red Aja. What, what does Andor like, what does Andor want? How are we going to be able to get out of here without bloodshed? Or are we going to be able to get out of here without breaking some sort of alliance? Like at the end where she's like, where he's like, um, you know, the next time that I come here, it will be with my army at my back and neither you nor

[00:27:10] I want to know how that turns out. Like, I mean, that's, that's pretty, that's pretty straightforward and, uh, pretty aggressive. Yeah. I can appreciate it. Like, Hey, I've entrusted my daughter to you. She is the person who will succeed me as the high seat of my house and my country, our country's queen. But it just seemed very, um, like crazy aggressive.

[00:27:38] No, for sure. She, but that is apparently who she is. A pretty aggressive lady. So I did really like, um, both the actors, the actors who played both Elida and, uh, and more gays, like both of them had hella presence on screen. Elida's voice though is like froggy almost. Like I was looking down the first time that

[00:28:06] she really had like several lines to say and was like, what is going on? And then I just didn't like connect that it was going to be that same, um, actress, but yeah, they're both powerful women that I would not want to be crossing. Well, and so some of the stuff that I picked up on, um, so the Lida will be staying in the

[00:28:29] tower. Um, and you know, you need strong sisters around, you know, who better than the person who almost ousted you or bested you in the run for the Amarillo seat. Oh yeah. So how is, how is the Amarillo seat? That should have been one of my stupid questions. How is the Amarillo seat elected or chosen? Is it a battle? No, I believe it's election. Ah, okay. I'm not 100% sure. It would have been cooler if it was a battle.

[00:28:58] To the death. We're going to take two of our strongest. But I, I believe that it is, I believe that I don't know if you only know that it's like a democratic vote, but I believe it'd probably be like, almost like the, almost like, uh, the electoral college. Electors. Yeah. Where it's like, Hey, each Aja has a vote and, or like, you know, each sitter has a vote. Well, apparently. Yeah. We just didn't know it, but they were.

[00:29:27] Um, and so maybe they were part of putting Swan on the Amarillo seat. Instead of. Yeah. Instead of Alida. Um, but yeah, so it was, uh, let me see what, what else? It says, I said, Elaine, I don't know. I don't know what this says. My notes are that bad.

[00:29:50] Um, some other people that I did, um, I did notice, um, is that they mentioned Lord Brian had, or Gabriel mentioned Lord Brian had to be dismissed or general. So, uh, I'm, I'm not sure. Like, so say she's having trouble with the people. Well, that's not great. You know, that's never a good thing. And the army. Yeah. No, not great.

[00:30:18] Yeah. Um, and then the fact that, that Morgueis is like, well, Swan basically told me there was a dark friend or black Aja. And so I'm assuming that it was way worse than that because she would only soften whatever she was going to tell me.

[00:30:40] Well, and Alida like definitely clocked the, um, column being busted up and repaired when she walked into the, um, into the room. Um, it was very nice of them. I feel like they are very, oh, she like looks over and then is like, oh, look, this is what she's looking at. Okay. Gotcha. But so like, they obviously are aware of something significant has happened to there.

[00:31:05] Right. Um, and then, uh, this kind of goes along with, I'm just like, with like the white tower, uh, thing. Um, so, so men, uh, is talking, you know, she said she saw a vision of more dead. Yeah. I said I, at least nine. She's at least nine. Yeah. Nine. That's crazy. Um, and so are, is that a matter of, Hey, they find the black

[00:31:35] Aja and they execute them. Is it a matter of, uh, is it a matter of they, you know, there's, uh, the black Aja attacks, uh, is it a matter of not the black Aja? Maybe it's and or attacks for some reason or another. Maybe somebody else does whatever it is. Yeah. Ran goes bonkers. And I did like the line, uh, my visions don't come with a clock. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing is

[00:32:02] like her trying to interpret visions like that is a dangerous game, a real dangerous game. And so I think, yeah, I hadn't even thought about the fact that it could even be the black Aja that they've taken out that she's seeing. Like there's no way to know. Yeah. The, uh, um, do you think that, so we get this sort of basically this continued

[00:32:30] storyline throughout of everyone leaves from speaking with Swan and they're like, she's not telling us everything. She's not telling us everything. And here's, Oh yeah. We're like Elaine, Elaine and, uh, and, uh, or not, um, Elaine and Nainave. Yeah. Oh, she's not telling us something. Well, it does ever, I, any of us that I ever tell us the whole truth. I mean, that's, that's a fair, that's a fair point. Which was valid. Yeah. But I did think that the, I'm guessing, so the reason that

[00:32:59] Elaine said that to Nainave is not only should you just make that smart assumption, but Elaine's reasoning was that she'd heard Varen and Leone disagreeing in the hallway earlier in the episode. Right. And so when I was watching the episode again, I realized that what they're probably arguing about right there is the fact that Leone is not a fan of having men be a spy in the tower,

[00:33:23] like which came out midway through the episode. And it was kind of a little bit shitty of Swan to ask them to be spies in the tower and not tell them about the third spy that she has in the tower. Right. Um, but also fair, like, you know, try to keep your stuff spread out. And if someone goes down, maybe everyone doesn't go down, but, um, yeah, it does. I'm assuming that's probably what

[00:33:47] that was about, but the, the, the hard part is, is I would say this is the hard part for Swan is that she honest to God just has no concept of who she can trust. Oh my God. I mean, how could you like these people that you've literally spent your entire life, you know, growing up with, and you think you're like very closely bonded with, you call them sisters or daughters and mother. And they, half of them have now double crossed you. I mean, maybe not half,

[00:34:16] but it felt like almost half, like a lot of them double crossed you like pretty deeply. I mean, it would make sense to be very paranoid and very careful. Right. Um, yeah, no, I, I agree with you. Um, man, this really is irritating me because I can't read what it says. Elaine pulls on, puts on crown. That's what it is. She's like put on the crown before, before.

[00:34:42] That was a neat moment. Yeah. I was, I was a very like bulky crown that I was like, that seems weird, but it still seemed like she still seemed to carry it well for being such like a small, you know, a small woman with her hair, like not all done up crazy to hold the crown the way her mother's is like, it still suited her. I could see her becoming queen. Yeah. I, I did. Uh,

[00:35:06] I liked how they presented like even more gaze would be like bandying words with like Elaine, like, it's okay. You don't have to tell me today. You can tell me tomorrow. Tomorrow's fine. And she's like, wait, what? And then you notice something similar later on when Swan was talking to Matt, like, you know, as long as you live, like that's the thing. And he's like, wait, what?

[00:35:32] What's your talking about? Um, that was a really fun interaction. Very, very fun. But as far as the tower goes, like, uh, do you have anything else for the tower or more gaze from the family? I don't think so. I think that was mostly it. I mean, I did really just love that moment at the end, I guess, just noting that I appreciated that Elaine stood up to more gaze and made a really

[00:36:00] good point about needing to like be like, spend the time to be a strong, to develop into a strong leader before she takes that role. And especially in these times. And that was that one moment where I think we got to see more gaze be her true self for a moment when she like, was like, when did you get so smart? Or how did you get so smart? Or something to Elaine, it just felt like her harsh

[00:36:25] facade cracked for just a moment. And you saw her just being proud of her daughter. Um, and, and I liked that it made me continue to be like more intrigued by more gaze. And I, I didn't like Elaine when she was first introduced, because I thought she was throwing almost like a wrench into our main characters. And I think now that I've seen she's one of them and is like help bond the group better.

[00:36:53] And now we're seeing this like character growth from her. And now, now I like her a lot. And I think this episode sort of continued that trajectory for me of just liking her character a lot and feeling more excited about what her story will be. Well, hearing someone stand up, not just for themselves, but like saying, Oh no, I need to earn this. I need the experience. I need, I know that I don't know everything. I know that I'm not the

[00:37:19] best. You know, whenever you hear someone say that it immediately disarms you. It immediately makes you go, okay, maybe I misjudged this person unless you flat out believe that they're BSing you, but right. Um, but like, I, I feel like that is, and I feel like what we've seen of Elaine gives us kind of confidence that this is reinforcing that positive viewpoint.

[00:37:45] Yeah. Awesome. Well, that's everything that I have from the white tower. Okay. So I, yeah, uh, out on the outside of a couple of things that tie in some other characters that that'll be, I'm, I'm good. Um, all right. You want to move on? What do you, what do you want to go to? Sure. Let's talk, let's talk about, you know, let's actually, let's talk about Perrin and company going to two rivers.

[00:38:12] Okay. Um, all right. So long story, they all kind of summed up together, uh, Perrin and Loyal and, uh, Bane and she had Brad Chad, Brad and Chad. No, let's not do that. I'm sorry. Bane and Chad. Um, go, you know, they, they come out

[00:38:36] of the ways, uh, where Loyal was, was traveling through the ways without channeling. So apparently there was a little, a leaf that he had to do something with, and then he like closed it with the leaf and then took it with them. Um, and then. I love an ogier. They're just awesome. Ogiers are, they're fantastic. Um. But he was struggle festing. Yeah. The, the, uh, the longing. Or struggle busting. Yeah.

[00:39:04] The, the, the, he was talking, he talked about the longing, which again, there is a fantastic little short, um, talking about the, the longing of an ogier. Um, and then they, so they go, you know, beautiful scenery, whether it was green screen or whatever. No, it's a real. So we watched, after we watched this morning, I think we started, where is this

[00:39:28] filmed? And it's all like primarily in Eastern Europe, but like, you know, that beautiful, like the water that almost looks like it's from the Caribbean, but it's a river. That is a real river. I believe in Croatia. That was stunning. It really looks like that. I mean, yeah, you like Google, you know, wheel of time, um, filming location and you can find some posts that show across all of it.

[00:39:55] Like everything was so blue. Everything was so green. A lot of these, a lot of the scenery is real. Um, and it's really, I was amazed. I thought at least it was like, I didn't think there was any way that water was that blue. That's real. So the world is a beautiful place. Everyone. Yeah. So travel, see beautiful things or Google it at very least.

[00:40:20] Or that. Yeah. Um, so yeah, so they, they like a lot of, like, there's a lot of not conversation. I feel like this was like, Hey, get to know the area, right? Yeah. To see where these people grew up. And so then they, they get to, uh, the two rivers. Um, so for me, it's a little bit weird because they only refer to it as the, as the two rivers, but in the book it was called Eamon's field was in the two rivers was like the whole section was like the whole region. Um, so to me,

[00:40:49] it's a little bit weird, but so when they get to the town, um, they go into the blacksmith where, uh, Perrin accidentally killed Layla and you know, he hears her voice and you know, it's like, Oh, that's, that's hard. Uh, but then they have been, you know, Oh, these damn white cloaks riding through town. What the F is going on? How are these people? I mean,

[00:41:17] and then later on you do kind of go, okay, well, well at least me having rewatched the, the, the seasons, um, he did. Perrin spoke with Dane Bornhold and said, you know, Hey, you're from the two rivers. Um, no two rivers. He called them two rivers. So he knew where to go. Um, and so maybe it's not necessarily coincidence, but like, you're pretty far over in Andor.

[00:41:46] And maybe that, I mean, and that group was also in foam. So they were already in the West. So maybe they're like, Oh, well, Hey, while we're at it, let's go ahead and check out the two rivers. Cause, uh, we need to go hunt down this guy that killed my dad. Yeah. I mean, I just last episode in this episode, I just have to roll my eyes a lot at how like not careful they're being. Yeah. Like it really irritated me when they like, we're like,

[00:42:13] yeah, last night out on the town, let's go drinking. Because like, Moraine just warned you about being careful and like said, cover your hair. And people like did the most mid attempt to like slightly pull a hood up and Matt's still carrying a stupid horn around, which I know he got called out for this episode. But then again, when Perrin and company arrive in the

[00:42:36] two rivers with a mother effing Ogier and two ladies that absolutely do not look like they're from there, like you're drawing and law, a lot of attention to yourself. And you think just going to like hide out in the attic is good enough like that, that everyone in town, like all the looks, all the looks that you were getting on the way in. Like it's Nine Naves, Egwene's mother,

[00:43:03] Egwene's mother that like hides them in the inn because they own the inn. Like, like everyone saw Perrin and the Ogier walk across the center of town. And then she literally says like, there's money on your head. Like you think some of these people are not going to give him up? Like maybe you count on the fact that it's a small knit town and people that care about each other, but you think

[00:43:28] one person isn't desperate enough to take the money? Like it just felt very, very stupid. And I was annoyed at that. I get it. That was like, have someone whisk you away to a cabin that's a little outside of town. I'll accept that. Go out to Tam and Rand's farm. Yeah. Like maybe I'm still going to be like, you're stupid, but I wouldn't be as annoyed. Okay. That's my rant. I love this show

[00:43:55] otherwise, but I have to call out when I'm just like super frustrated. I get it. That's like, that was like the healing last episode where like nothing's unhealable. Um, but, uh, yeah. So I, I agree with you the same. I was had the same thought on, uh, last episode where Matt was like, yeah, I blew the horn. Like you saw the guy like stare at him, like clock him. And then

[00:44:19] Oh, we're going to pose for a picture with the horn. And it's just like, okay. All right. You know what? I feel like this maybe is a little bit weird, but okay. All right. I'll accept it. And then I liked the fact that, like you said, this one called him out. I do appreciate that. It makes me feel like the tiniest bit better, but I'm still just like, I know they're supposed to be like young and first time out in the world, but they had like a pretty, a series of pretty like traumatic

[00:44:47] experiences that I feel like would have made them take stuff like just a little more seriously at this point. But I don't know. I get that. Uh, but yeah, so they go, they go and then they go in the attic and Oh, it's Alana and Maxim who are quite strange, acting quite strange. I don't know

[00:45:09] what's going on. I'm so confused. By what? How they're acting, how antagonistic they're acting towards Perrin. Um, why she has this suspicious injury that I don't know if I believe is from a Trolloc. I mean, the fact that they were like trying to say that, well, like, okay,

[00:45:34] back up when they came out through the waypoint, they're like, Oh, Perrin used his wolfie. Now he's like, Oh, I made it a woman came here before. And he's wolfie now. I smell the smell of ash. I'm sorry. So we just then assumed that this is Alana and Maxim, but I don't think so. Like, why is Alana smell like ash? I think there's someone else that came through the waypoint and Alana did not say yes or no that they'd use the waypoint.

[00:46:01] I did notice that they did not, they did not deny it, nor did they confirm it. Very specifically, deny it to her. I said I. Okay, sorry. No, don't apologize. I need to go like, I hope that this is in the next episode because I don't want to wait a week to understand why she's acting so weird. Like, I'm guessing

[00:46:24] that she's upset that no one came to her aid in the street fight. Like, from the way that she was like, I think she was just sort of snotty to Perrin when he was like, I forget who he said. Was it Egwene or someone who had been worried about Alana? Did you hear who he said? Wasn't Moraine that he said? I know. I don't, I don't remember who he mentioned, but he did say like, oh, they- Anyways, Alana was just like, why should you care? Why does anyone care?

[00:46:54] No one knew, no one knew where you guys went afterwards. And I mean, I think that the, the, the, I think it is a fair suspicion because we don't know who's what. Like, sure, you had, you know, you were attacking the Reds, uh, you know, you were protecting the Emerald, but maybe you're black. So like, eat a dick. Like, that's, yeah. And, and I, my guess, again,

[00:47:20] my guess is that at least a part of that, uh, and specifically Maxim was Ivan's death. Yeah. Um, and, and I mean, I can't imagine it wouldn't have been Alana as well, but like, I, I, but I, I agree with you. Like they were acting very, very like aggressive towards, towards the, that entire group. Mm-hmm. Very strange. But I don't get why they would go there.

[00:47:49] No one said why, why would you go there? Are you looking for something? Are you trying to seek something out? What's going on? I don't get it. I don't know. I have no guesses. Very confused. Very interested. She better not be bad. I like her. I don't want her to be bad. Um, okay. So then, uh, I think that was

[00:48:15] basically it. I don't remember anything after, after that, um, with regards to, to that group. All right. Um, in that case, I'm going to move on to, um, Matt and men, or at least Matt's story in the tower. Um, so we see him at the beginning. And Rima Sadai, I was glad she got out of the farm. Um, you know, glad she was not killed

[00:48:42] in whatever battle, you know, she wasn't broken by, uh, by the Shon Shon. Um, but she basically was like, right. Weaves didn't hold, can't do anything to help right now. We'll try again later. Like shit happens basically is what it sounded like. Yeah. Um, trying to heal him would be as futile as bringing him back from the dead, I think is explicitly what she said about trying to heal a mind. It's kind of like, there's nothing

[00:49:10] to heal here. Like I don't sense something broken here. I just, it's, and it's a brain. It's kind of like we are right now. Like we understand how our heart, like we, we as humans and as scientists and as surgeons know how our heart works. We know how this works, but we don't really do well with a mind with a mind. It's kind of like, Hey, there's some stuff in this aspect. No one has any idea what causes autism. Nobody has any idea what causes

[00:49:40] X, Y, or Z. Well, we do know a little bit about a little bit. I, sorry. As, as, that's my scientist hat coming out as, as, as someone with, you know, with, with an autistic child, like I have read a lot about it and there is nothing definitive. There are things that have, there are things that have been studied and we are fairly confident do have some effect,

[00:50:07] but there's, it's not like, Oh, when you have this percentage of this DNA or this percentage of this carrier, like there's, there's nothing definitive. It's not, it's not a single gene. Bam. Right. Answer. Yeah. It's not like, Oh yeah, you have the flu. Boom. Done. Um, it's, it's something much more difficult and much more complex, just like the mind. And so I can appreciate that. Um,

[00:50:31] Matt, when he was, uh, the, the beginning part where he goes like, he's, you know, Oh, hold it with two hands. I was like, okay. Yeah. They're, they're obviously playing this for a, a sexual Matt is just assumption. And then, and then she's, she's the girl like knocking the door. Oh, who's that? And it's some other girl. And he's like, Oh, are you being cheeky? The indoor princess

[00:50:57] here. Oh, very cheeky. But you know, Hey, we do what we have to do. I did laugh quite a bit at that. And then you just have to see his fragile ego get crushed when he realizes what's really happening in the white tower. Put, put that thing down. Yeah. We're, we, we got to come see this. And the, the line that he's a nine yave. I didn't think this is something you would be into.

[00:51:23] And her response of, um, I think everyone is into something like this. I did like that a lot. So that back and forth, as well as the line from nine yave. Oh yeah. Those, those are your brothers. Yeah. Those are the princess. Yeah. They're so entitled. I can't remember what the word she used. And then Elaine's response. Yeah. Elaine's response of, um, yeah, that's coming from someone who's sleeping with an actual king.

[00:51:53] And that shot nine yave. She's like, oh damn. Like, yeah, you got me. The new face there was so funny. Yeah. I thought those were really great. Yeah. Um, so there, like you had, uh, Gowan and, and Galad putting on their show. And then Matt trapped between the, uh, the dueling bone rooms.

[00:52:18] Um, I felt, I did think it was weird that, that like, it was cool for like novices to be knocking it out with the, the princess. Um, I would figure that like, I said, I would maybe be fearful of having children and especially the novices. Um, like if it was like, you know, workers. I mean, I bet their technology, like their medicine's pretty advanced. They probably have good, like preventative medicine.

[00:52:48] That's fair. And it is a very, like, female empowered society. And so I think like we're seeing women act more similar to how in our society is like acceptable behavior for men. Right. Like it seems to go for both men and women in this, uh, wheel of time world, which I think is really nice. Right. Like, sure.

[00:53:13] There's not the same like expectation of like Matt sort of acting this way, but like that the women should be like more reserved. Like the women are rushing out to try to get their time with the princes too. Like I noticed and thought that was sort of like an interesting, like slight shift, you know? I think that maybe my, I think maybe, uh, and I don't know if it's necessarily like book lore or if it is. Well, I mean, they're literally like servant class.

[00:53:42] So I think what you're saying, like, I totally recognize what you're saying. Like makes sense that like when you're in that like early stage in the tower, you're like cleaning up after people. You're really supposed to sort of fall in line. You can't come and go. So like, I hear what you're saying. I know it wasn't about like that they were women, but more so that they're in this like sort of supposed to be in this like strict role in the tower. Right. And I don't necessarily mean the fact that they were women.

[00:54:09] I just mean that they were in like a training environment. For sure. And you shouldn't, you know, if you end up pregnant, that can really, uh, and you may be absolutely right. There may be a matter of like, oh no, you're going to drink moon tea or you're going to do whatever. I mean, moon tea is from GOT, but, um, but like maybe that very, but like, it seemed like everybody was like, well, yeah. I mean, like the novices will, you know, I don't know if the novices will recover.

[00:54:38] I think that's what Swan said when they said that Gwen and Galaga are staying there. Like, I don't know that the novices will recover. So it was just like accepted that it was fine. So yeah. I mean, they must have good preventative measures. But yeah. So, uh, so like I thought that was an interesting, a really interesting thing. So the, uh, um, let me see. I think the next thing I had was just like the interaction with Swan. Yeah. Oh, well, there was a little bit with Min too.

[00:55:08] Yeah. So like Min is trying to like apologize, trying to like talk, talk to him and maybe try to like rekindle that friendship. I get where Matt's coming from. Like he was sold out to like the forsaken. Like, it's not like you could really, like I, I got hit over the head. And she wouldn't even really say I'm sorry outright until he was like, will you say it? And then she said it. I was like, okay, like you crossed him pretty hard. I'm trying to say I'm sorry.

[00:55:37] Well, you're not saying the words. Are you really? What? No, I, I, I do. I can appreciate where he's coming from, but I can also see where Min is like, do you have any idea how hard it is to look at someone and say, I fucked you. And I shouldn't have, and I'm sorry. And it's difficult. It is, I mean, when you say it the one time, like once you say it the first time, it's easier after that.

[00:56:05] But, but like it is, it is different. It is, is a very difficult thing to not just admit guilt, but then to apologize to the person who you directly impacted. And she was in a very like bad kind of desperate spot when she did that too. I will acknowledge, not that it makes it okay, but it helps put it into perspective.

[00:56:27] And he doesn't know it, but she actually like tried to save Rand by trying to get Matt to not go. Oh yeah. True. True. So like, she was like, yes, I did it. And then I found out who I was doing it with or doing it, you know, who I was telling you to. And then, and, but I still gave up. I gave up like losing my vision. I gave up my curse.

[00:56:53] Or I gave up the possibility of losing my curse and he doesn't get that. And so like both of them have very valid points there. For sure. In my opinion. Yeah. No, I think you're right. I, I think I forgot a bit of that storyline since I haven't rewatched season two. Gotcha. Watched it originally. Um, yeah.

[00:57:17] And then I, yeah, I think the, the interaction with Swan and the like, uh, like, I mean, I, I can't imagine you would be anywhere stupid enough to like brag about being the hornblower because like it's just inviting danger to you or, you know, using it as currency with the novices in the tower. Like, I can't fathom that you would be done or even like even crazier.

[00:57:42] Be like posing for a portrait of you with the, and he's like, I, no, uh, no, uh, would you like me to take it for same keeping? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. You may go. Okay. All right. I'm out. Uh, I, I did like that. I thought that that was smart of Swan and a pointed reminder to Matt to not be dumb.

[00:58:08] And she did leave him on a bit of a positive and encouraging note with the story about like what a hero is and comparing him to her uncle and saying, I'm not a hero. I'll do, I just do what I have to. And she was like, but you know, all the people that we remember as heroes were just doing what they had to. It's like, that was really nice. Yes. Are you, are you going to die pulling kids from the, are you going to be there when the boots are on the ground?

[00:58:34] And, uh, one of the things that I do like about Swan is all of her fish references. Uh, yo, yes. She did a boat one earlier, like a sinking boat and putting something in. And I feel like maybe it was, was it to Elaine and 9-8 and they were looking at her like, what are you talking about? How many, how many did they leave as a stub that you don't notice in the shallow, a stub in shallow water that you don't notice until you put a hole in your boat? And they're like, what are you talking about? Like what?

[00:59:03] I like thought that was really funny, but yeah. There was the very easy one she did with Morghese, which was like, oh yeah, you and I will both defend our own, like a, a den of our line fish will, you know, defend its den. Oh yeah, yeah. But the, but the stump one was really, really funny. Like, cause like no one had any idea. And then it kind of throws me back to Moiraine saying, oh, you and your tiering, uh, your tiering fishing, fishing comparisons.

[00:59:30] Um, and like there's a pike fish and a lionfish and a stub. Uh, and yes, but, uh, yeah. So yes, I, I liked the, I liked that, that positive interaction of like, maybe you aren't what you want to be, but maybe you're what is needed. And I, I liked the, uh, like you said, I like the positive note. Yeah.

[01:00:00] It's like the compliment sandwich. Yeah. Oh, no, you blew the horn of Valir. That's crazy. Like that's, that's obvious. And then you were really stupid after you were one of Valir. Yeah. Really, really, really dumb about it. Really, really stupid. But you could be like a hero, right? Like that's, um, yeah. So that's, that's all I have on, uh, on that. Same. All right. So I think all we have left is Rand and company.

[01:00:30] Um, and so I was, uh, a little bit, uh, I'm glad that I found, we found out this thing in particular that it is land fear. Yes. I wonder. I didn't wonder at all. I thought she was having nightmares. I thought out loud when I was watching the first episode and then I forgot to say it on the podcast.

[01:00:56] So I sound like a total flipping liar, but I really did wonder. And then when I saw it happen in this episode, I was like, ha ha. Yes. But it makes perfect sense that every time she tries to be with Rand, that land fear would be trying to really, you know, hit her right there. Well, and it's funny because like you talked about, we talked, uh, on episode one about it. Hey, you guys have just been together for a month and it's like, oh, every time that,

[01:01:24] every time that, uh, you know, that I touched Rand or he touches me, which makes complete and utter sense with the connection that land fear has to Rand. And she can sense stuff or whatever. And so like, it was, it was like, oh man, like that is horrible. Um, and then to see the, the cut together scenes of her dream and his dream where like,

[01:01:50] you know, like land fears, like basically seducing him and also choking out a Gwain at the same time. It's just like, oh my God, this is like, this is really, really good. I mean, from a clinical point of view. Yeah. I mean, she's good at being really terrible. I'll hand her that. She's very good at it. Um, but then we also got a Gwain.

[01:02:18] Did she break from land fears control and slip into a vision of the future or like what happened there where she sees the Aiel woman? Suddenly she almost like stops. I am going to. She's being fed from land fear. I'm going to defer until what I'm assuming is next episode. Yeah. All right. Awesome. But yeah, I mean, either, either a Gwain now has the potential to dream the future or

[01:02:48] old Aiel woman is able to visit in her dreams. So those are my two guesses. Well, so what was the reason that I don't think it was the Aiel woman going into her dreams is that the Aiel woman was surprised that she was there. Like, she's like, you shouldn't be here. That's true. And so I don't think it was, I think that it was, I think there's a possibility that it

[01:03:12] was a Gwain just being so frantic to escape her own dream that she did something out of the ordinary. Well, it was cool. It was, it was cool. And I was glad that she was no longer like had Rena's blood, like dripping in out of her mouth. And I was like, oh my God, horrible. Like that was terrible. It was, it was really, really rough.

[01:03:38] But like, again, back to like more brutality and more almost gore and like visceral reactions. Yeah. I can't say that I don't enjoy it because I do. Yeah, no, I mean, I love this show. Like it's great, but it's also. There are definitely some times where I'm like, oh, that's not, that's not good. But you know what? I had the most visceral reaction to this episode. What's that? Lorraine's stupid hat?

[01:04:09] What in the world? The sun hat with the four ends. Who is she now? Like, what is this? She definitely looked like a fisherman. I was upset the entire episode about that stupid hat. I did not like it. Was not a fan. Take it off. You are a high lady or formerly high lady of Kyrene. Like you're an Aes Sedai. Like have some self-respect or at least some fashion sense.

[01:04:36] I mean, I thought she was going to start like singing the sound of music or something. Like it was just. She's in the middle of a mountain. Like she's on a trek to basically the desert. And so she packed the special little hat just for this. Like, I don't know. It was just, it was a step too far for me. Come on, Rosamund. Get it together. I can appreciate that. All right. So other stuff that I have with it. So we did get another prophecy from the Aiel.

[01:05:06] An interesting one. Yeah. The Karakarn shall spill the blood of those who call themselves the Aiel as water on sand and break them as dried twigs. Yet the remnant of the remnant, the Karakarn shall save and they shall live. Like, that doesn't sound good. Creation and destruction wrapped in one, she says. And then she says balance. I'm like, I don't know if that's balance.

[01:05:32] I mean, I guess they're looking at it as it's, you know, I mean, I guess in their mind, their race doesn't survive without going through this. Right. And if they don't fulfill the prophecy, no one survives. And if they do, then at least a portion of them are ensured to survive. I guess that's how they're looking at it. Like, yeah, it's very interesting. Yeah. I'm not like I.

[01:06:01] And then I did know one prophecy that we didn't mention last episode. Uh-huh. And now for the life of me, I can't remember what it was. But I remember thinking, because I was like, I was going through some of the older episodes and I was like, oh, wait, yeah, we didn't talk about this one. It wasn't the people of the dragon. It wasn't Kalendor. It was like in season one.

[01:06:31] Okay. Doesn't matter if I remember it. I'll try to write it down again. But yeah, so we got more prophecy. I really, really liked. The. Ran's description of side in compared to my rain. He's like, oh, but it's so sweet. And I just want to drink it first. Like, no, I know exactly what you mean. And he's like, but it's also poison.

[01:06:58] And the filth that it feels turns my stomach. But it doesn't matter because I just want to keep drawing. And she's like, and he's like, can you, do you know what I'm talking about there? And she's like, I don't. Like, I don't know what that feels like. I thought that was so important for her to listen for a minute. I mean, he had started the conversation by basically saying the reason he's been with Lan is because Lan listens.

[01:07:25] And it was like she started out by not listening by really quickly wanting to be like, I know how that feels. But I thought it was important that she admitted that that was different. She still offered him advice at the end of, like, being present with the bitter and the sweet and being able to tell the difference. You have to embrace both so that you know which one's which. And, like, I didn't think about that because that's kind of the way. Not kind of.

[01:07:52] Like, it's almost precisely the way that it is described in the book. Where when they talk about. And it's kind of like the difference between, like, the way that Loghain talked about it and the way that Moiraine talked about it. Yeah. Which he was teaching Egwene where Moiraine was saying you have to surrender to Siddhar. Let it flow through you and you direct it. It's like a river.

[01:08:20] And Loghain was saying, no, you're trying to surrender to it. Grab it and force it to do what you want it to do. And I think you feel like it's the difference between the types of power. Yeah. And then in the book, the way that this is described is imagine that there is this pond and you're dying of thirst.

[01:08:47] And there's a pond with the sweetest water you've ever tasted. But on the top, there is a viscous poison. And in order to get to the sweet, you have to go through the poison. Oh, God. And so you are able to taste the sweet.

[01:09:07] And it's not even necessarily like the sweet isn't tainted with the poison, but you can feel the poison doing its work on you while you're drinking from the sweet. And I was just like, but I thought that his description was really good and it gave you a good visualization of what he's feeling.

[01:09:30] And I really do think it's funny when we talk about not seeing weaves yesterday, the last time we recorded. Like he is just like, if you can't see his like the weaves, all he's doing is like moving his hand around. Yeah. And she's just like, all right, that's cool.

[01:09:56] I think it's interesting how his weave, you know, has the black in it. And I think that to me represents that like dark. Yeah, no, I think that's precisely what it is. It's interesting. Because he like would pull out a little bit and it would be like the fire that you saw like Moghidian push into the gray man. But then, and then like when he said it, then like the tendrils of black kind of like came up and around.

[01:10:20] And it was just like, like, I, I think that they are doing a such a phenomenal job with that. And they make it all look very, very natural with the hand motions and whatnot. I think well done to the CGI effect department. Like it is really, really good. Yeah. All right.

[01:10:39] And then I think that the only thing else, the only other stuff that I have is like you talked about Rand doing the sword forms with land because land listened and Moirin didn't. But then like, so yes, they are crossing the spine of the world. This is crossing the Appalachians or this is crossing the, you know, the Western mountains. This is a big deal. And then on the other side, there is just desert and they finally get there.

[01:11:10] And then Avienda's like, who did you tell? Like, I've been with you. What do you mean? Who did I tell? What are you talking about? And then the Aiel show up and it is the same woman from Egwene's dream. Yeah. And it seemed that the taller man was like someone important, like maybe like the lead of this group or whatever.

[01:11:40] Maybe like a chief. And I say chief because they talk about Makarikara meaning chief of chiefs. Oh, right, right. But we didn't get a name for either of them, I don't think. Mm-mm. And so, oh, this is him. And then that was something else she said. She said, he will be born of our blood, but not – he will not be raised by us, but he will be of our blood. And he will come – and I can't remember specifically. Do you happen to have that quote? I don't.

[01:12:08] It was he'll come over, he'll cross the spine of the world, right? Like it was that he would come over. But yeah, it was of our blood, but not raised by our blood. And yeah, I mean, basically hers didn't even talk about anything but the destruction. Like it ended with he'll like destroy us. Yeah, and he will destroy us. Yeah, yeah. But not, you know, save us.

[01:12:34] I think she – I think I said something about lead us home, lead us to our land, something like that. Yeah, well, I'll have to go back and watch it again. But I'm also going to watch episode three. Me too. Because I'm looking forward to that. Me too. Me too. So that is – That's everything. Yeah, that's all I have for the moment. So we will – I just need to check on feedback. We're going to take a quick break. We'll come back and we'll do feedback.

[01:13:00] And then after episode three, we'll do news because I don't want to look at anything until after I've seen all three episodes. Yep. All right. We'll be back in a minute. And we are back. All right. So we do have a little bit of feedback.

[01:13:30] We have some feedback for the all three episodes, but one of them had a spoiler in it. So we're not going to talk about that for episode two. So feedback. Veronica, you want to take the one piece of Facebook feedback we got? Sure. So this is a comment from Jeff Haker who says, Morgay Shakan's murder of the other claimants was surprising since that's not in the books. Really liking this season so far.

[01:13:59] I totally agree. I know I talked about it, but it was kind of like it was hinted at like there was something that happened. But this was so brutal, but also kind of logical and it made sense within the story. It wasn't like brutality for brutality's sake. Yeah.

[01:14:20] I thought that getting that out of marble would maybe be a little like every time you sit in the throne room again, now you're going to watch like I can't fathom that you're not going to have bloodstains on the floor. But like she, like again, like marble probably doesn't soak that stuff up. It's not like they're limestone floors, but that's like, I just like, man, like she's, she's a hard person. Absolutely.

[01:14:48] Be able to be like, yep, this is, this is where I did it. It set the stage for her. Absolutely. Like, oh, I don't, I don't fuck around. And this is what happens when you find out. Like this is, but yeah. So no, I agree, Jeff. I, we, as I think that we, we have some very specific isolated complaints.

[01:15:11] Um, but yeah, I think that that has more to do with, uh, I'll say consistency in one skill over another. And then how dumb our characters are. And I get it. Like conflict doesn't happen if people aren't dumb. Yeah. I understand you have to write conflict and do a show. Um, but like, I guess, Hey, I'm going home. Perrin doesn't initially think anything's going to be different.

[01:15:40] I think that's a very naive way to think, but. But yeah. But yeah, so that's, that's all of the feedback we have right now. And I do apologize. I absolutely, you know, I was, I thought I put out a post earlier today and obviously I should have put a post like three days ago, but whatever the case is, thank you guys so much for, for the feedback.

[01:16:06] Um, and then we will read the feedback that is not spoilers because it, you know, it, it is something for episode three. Um, so we'll cover it then. Uh, but other than that, um, that's all we've got going on right now. That's what, that's all we've got. Uh, thanks for listening. Um, we are not going to talk about other podcasts right now. We'll talk more about those. Um, when episode three comes out, I will say that I keep wanting to get back to white Lotus and I just haven't had the opportunity to, and yellow jackets.

[01:16:36] Oh, I'm watching yellow jackets. It's good. I've got a few. I'm a little bottom of the podcast, but it's a good season so far. Yeah. I think they're only like four episodes in. I think episode five tomorrow for four. Uh, five will be next week. So we've just done four. Okay. So yeah, like I am like, I, I'm, I had, I started watching the season finale of season two so that I could watch the first episode of season three. And I was just like, Oh, I forgot how fucked up the show is.

[01:17:06] It's so intense. Very, very intense show. So, but if you like really, really super intense shows and you're not afraid of a lot of sort of gore and violence, then yellow jackets is really fun. Uh, it's got a lot of the mystery feel of lost and I will say the writing and the actors and excellent actors.

[01:17:30] It's also like funny to lighten up the heavy, scary, creepy, violent show. So it's fun and unique and I'm enjoying it. Yeah. I mean, I, I really, really enjoyed seasons one and two, even as effed up as they were. I don't know why I keep switching back and forth when you're actually saying curses and not, but whatever. Keeps it mixed up. Keeps it lighter. Yeah.

[01:17:56] Um, so yeah, kids only listen to like, not those particular words that I say. Um, but, uh, yeah. So, um, if you would like to write in or record a message, I'm going to put up a Facebook post for episode three, uh, like in 10 minutes, uh, which this is Saturday night. Um, and then you can email us if you want to like record a voice message and send it to us. You can send it to us at a talk at podcast, the talk at podcast.com.

[01:18:25] And then, yeah, like you said, check out our Facebook page. It's facebook.com slash podcast. And I'll tell you what, if you even want to just send either Veronica or myself, like feedback via message or something like that, I'm good with that too. Reach out. Um, but next time with this podcast, uh, we'll be covering wheel of time season three, episode three, the seeds of shadow, or maybe not the just seeds of shadow.

[01:18:52] And, uh, I will probably be watching that and probably got to eat something for dinner, but I'll probably be watching that in an hour. Yeah. I'm excited to check it out. But for now, that's our show. Let the dragon ride again on the winds of time.