23. "Tel'aran'rhiod" (The Wheel of Time S3E5)

[00:00:20] Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast. I'm Greg. And I'm Veronica. And this is The Wheel of Time Cast. This week we're covering The Wheel of Time Season 3 Episode 5, Telaranrhiod. All right, so like this, don't get me wrong, like last week we had a phenomenal hour of television and it's gonna be hard to follow that up. But I think that we actually got some pretty significant

[00:00:48] you know, kind of nuggets in this. I feel like this was closer to like a setup episode. I hate to use the word filler because it's, I don't think it is filler. I think it's, hey, we're showing you what is happening before the other big stuff happens. But I feel like it was, again, not that it wasn't exciting and there weren't cool things that happened, but it was, it was not the,

[00:01:14] the dramatic episode, amazing dramatic episode we, we got last week. Yeah, I totally agree. I appreciate, I think we still got some progress on a few of the storylines. Like some things felt, it felt like forward motion, not just clearly like only stage setting, but I almost, I sort of wonder if next week's episode, um, taken together with this week's

[00:01:39] episode will feel like more of a complete, like jump forward in the story. Um, but yeah, I don't think it was filler at all, but yeah, slower. And it's hard to, it's hard to follow up an episode like last week. Well, and I think I, well, and once we got, get back to the, hey, let's see where other people are, it's, it's hard because like we, we had one episode of amazing continuity. You only

[00:02:06] dealt with these three or four people. And in this one, just in the Amazon summary, uh, we get one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, seven people's names. Yeah. Just, just in their summary, which is crap. Not, not all crap, but it's very, very, uh, limited. So it's hard to go back, go from focused on one particular storyline to, uh, we've got five different branches. Yeah. It's just tough.

[00:02:35] Well, you want me to read the Amazon summary? Yeah, sure. All right. So I think you may have to elaborate on some of this, but Amazon says, Aguine learns Rand's dark secret. Perrin stages a daring rescue. Nynaeve, Elaine, Matt, and Min hunt the black Aja. I, I get not giving away spoilers, but I mean, I feel like this is, I feel like we're going above

[00:03:00] and beyond. Yeah. Um, I don't necessarily have like, uh, to fix this one. Uh, but I just have extra things that I feel like they could have, you know, I'm going to even just going to add extra lines in to just say, Hey, these old things also happened. They don't give anything away. Uh, Elida works to maneuver through the white tower. Aguine learns about dreamwalking. Moiraine reconciles her visions from, from Ruidian. Nynaeve and company learn about the sea folk culture

[00:03:29] on their way to Tanchico. They also learned about Tanchico culture. Yeah. Yeah. I like to set up for that. Um, yeah. So like I, uh, I, I really, there are so many storylines and so many different things happening. Uh, it is super gratifying when they all come back together, like when they all tie back together at the end of a season or a half season or whatever.

[00:03:53] But I feel like you do need not just these episodes, but these, the, the detail in the storylines in order to like keep things, not just moving, but to, I think it's more world building. I think this episode had a lot of world building, uh, including the relationships between characters. I feel like that counts as world building, world building too. So, uh, and I, I think, I think it was, I think this is a worthwhile one.

[00:04:21] For sure. And I think it had some, some moments that, uh, I still felt really excited about and I'm excited to talk to you about. So. Sounds good. I'm looking forward to it. Um, how about your three questions? Yeah. So this week I didn't have any like amazing, like deep dive question. And I, I almost feel like these are probably things I've asked you in the past, but I'm hoping if I needed a reminder,

[00:04:47] maybe there's some of our listeners out there that had a similar question too. Um, so my first one is, can you, I know we've talked about this before, um, but it just came up again for me, this episode, trying to remember why do the white cloaks hate the Aes Sedai and women who can channel so strongly, like what's the reason for that? What feels just like absolute hatred.

[00:05:15] So I will go back to, um, my comparison to Christianity, um, and Christian zealots in the Holy Wars back in the 1400s, um, back in the Holy Wars, it was, Hey, God is the only way there. And

[00:05:40] we're going to save everyone else. And if, if you can do something that God doesn't explain, or we say is against God, or the Bible says is against God, then you must be doing it outside of God, which means that you are against God. And they are very much the, if you are not with us, you are

[00:06:02] against us. Uh, but they are kind of like those, um, the Knights Templar and whatnot, they are the churches or at least the lights hand, or at least they count themselves that way. We believe in the light. We enforce the light everywhere we go. The light is, you know, we go anywhere. The light

[00:06:24] shines. Uh, so if you don't go along with us, um, or you don't accede to our request, you must be hiding something because you must be a dark friend or, uh, and the, the one power, that's what dark friends use. That's what witches use. Okay. So there's no okay way to use the one power in their head.

[00:06:49] It just, like, if you're accessing the one power, you automatically are aligned. I think not light and part of the dark. I think in the same manner that, you know, as, as Christianity has, there are, you know, there are zealots and there are moderates and, you know, you can say, Hey, you know,

[00:07:13] it makes sense for this to be the case. And it seemed to me that, uh, Dane Bornhold's father, uh, Jeffram Bornhold was a reasonable one, right? Or back in season one, he said to Moiraine, go find an Aes Sedai. You know, I don't necessarily agree with, you know, what they do or what their, their policies are and what they, what they are, but they're the only ones who can heal this type of wound.

[00:07:39] He gave someone advice to go seek out Aes Sedai help. So I feel like, again, he's like one of those moderates. I feel, I feel like Eamon Valda is that far right zealot that is going to, well, no, if it's, I, I took something and in my opinion, Valda is just a masochist and, uh, he loves inflicting

[00:08:03] violence and pain upon other people. And he just uses the white cloak, uh, his white cloak authority to inflict that. Uh, he just takes, it takes advantage of it in order to get his jollies. I mean, yeah. So he's not, it's not even about his true belief in the light. It's about sort of

[00:08:25] abusing that, uh, you know, we'll call it that facade so that he can be terrible and torture people. All right. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Yep. It does. Okay. All right. I mean, we've seen a little bit of this, but just in general, what is the Aes Sedai stance on women

[00:08:50] who can channel that do not come train at the tower? If you can channel and you're like actively out there channeling, are they going to come hunt you down the same way they would a man who can channel and be like, if you don't train to use this properly, we're going to gentle you. Or do they let them if they don't think they're powerful enough or what's the deal? All right. So this is actually,

[00:09:13] a really good question and it's one, especially it's, it makes it easier because I mean, I imagine it was from what they, what the, what Elaine said to the wind finders or to the, to the sea folk. Um, but the, the intent of the white tower is to, uh, go and recruit any channelers that at least

[00:09:38] bring them to the white tower, any channelers that can are like have the spark because there's, there's a difference between having the spark and it means you're going to channel no matter what and having the ability to channel, but you don't have that inborn spark. Like something has to like bring it out of you or it has to be trained into you. And that's kind of where that level of power in the Damane, I'm sorry, not the Damane, the Suldam for the Sanchan, right? They didn't realize

[00:10:07] that they could channel themselves. They, but they have that innate, they have the ability to touch the source and to channel, but they aren't strong enough, uh, that it's not going to like pop out of them no matter what, but the Damane, the, the, the leashed ones, right? Or Mereth Damane, the ones who must be leashed, uh, who were with the, the Aes Sedai, um, they are, they are ones that,

[00:10:33] Hey, we are formidable in the power. You are going to channel whether you like it or not. Um, and typically, typically that happens and the Aes Sedai will like that person will either be, that woman will either be sent off to the white tower to be recruited and trained or, um, someone will hear about it and they will send people to find them. I don't think that they would necessarily

[00:11:02] still anybody, um, still a woman who didn't want to be part of the tower. They would just say, no, you're going to do this to make sure that you're going to, you're going to be a novice and you're going to do this and we'll, you know, if necessary, we'll give your family money in order to, uh, you know, to, to pay for help that would be a replace you or maybe not. I, I, I'm not, I don't, I'm not, you know, a hundred percent sure on that, but, um, but yeah, so yeah. So the, the intent is

[00:11:31] that if you are weak enough to change, if you, if you're too weak to meet whatever threshold the Aes Sedai have, um, they are going to basically leave you be, they'll say, okay, you've learned enough. You're not going to hurt anybody. It's not going to pop out of you and hurt somebody to, to begin. Um, so we will, we will let you go. Okay. And which color Aja would be going to do to seek out

[00:11:59] and recruit new channelers? I think that would be any of them. Um, but I mean, you could even like just, just basically taking the, the essence of what each channel, each Aja is, you could say that, Hey, we're going to send a, a blue, uh, a blue Aja team or a couple of blue sisters out to seek out to see if we can identify people. Oh, well they'll go investigate this. Hey, we'll send some,

[00:12:27] some whites who are, um, you know, logical and follow logic. We'll send some grays who are mediators. Like you could send any of them. Um, and, and I think that it would be, it's like a, a job of Aes Sedai in general. Just go. If you, if you find someone, bring them back to the tower. If it's someone who's strong or has the spark, then do what you can to keep them safe and then escort them back to the tower. Don't just be like, Hey, you should go to the white tower because

[00:12:56] I think the idea is that going to the white tower is kind of a big deal and that they would be honored for their, their child to go and go to the white tower. But, um, I'm not a hundred percent sure. Might differ depending on like, are there different opinions of the Aes Sedai depending on where you're at? Yeah. So like, I think in tier the, the, the one power is a huge, you know,

[00:13:25] uh, it was like very anti anti power. And so they'd be like, Oh no, get the hell out of here. If you can channel, this is a place for us to send our people who can channel not so they can help tier, but because we don't want them here. I see. Okay. One last question. I'm almost sure I've asked you this before, but what's the process for electing the Amarillo and seat? Like, is it an

[00:13:51] actual vote? If there are two people, is it purely like a contest among? I think it was, I think, I think it was, I think we talked about this two or three episodes ago and I think my answer is going to be the same. I believe that it's going to be kind of like Congress where it's a matter of, a matter of votes of representatives. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I probably the sitters in the

[00:14:16] hall, um, and each Aja has three sitters in the hall. So yeah, I imagine it is, uh, something to that effect. Okay. Thanks. Sorry to repeat the same questions, but where it came up again, this episode, I was like, I don't know, I guess like, I mean, is there any sort of like, yeah, is it just like the elections here where they're trying to like, you know, go talk politics and bring people in

[00:14:43] or like, I don't know when I initially, when initially this came up earlier in the series, thinking about the Amarillo and see, like in my head, I had some sort of idea of like challenges they would go through. And I think it was just cause it was at the time where like, we were thinking very much about the challenges of becoming an Aes Sedai and going through the arches and things, but kind of bummer that it's just politics. I'd love if it was some big like

[00:15:08] show of use of the one power between, um, you know, the two, the two people at the top of the list. We're going to fight to the death, right? Yeah. Um, so I, I would actually, the comparison, a better comparison would probably be the Catholic church and how they elect a Pope where we don't send all of our priests and whatnot to go vote, right? We send all of the cardinals and all of the blah, blah, blah, blah into the enclave and they go in and they don't come out until a new Pope

[00:15:36] is elected. Um, I imagine white smoke. Yeah, exactly. From the white tower. Um, so yeah, I, uh, and I, I appreciate, uh, angels and demons, the Dan Brown book, uh, giving me at least some of that. Yeah, for sure. I feel like that also is some of my main, uh, knowledge of that, which might be concerning cause I don't know how, uh, accurate. Right. Um, that was to the real process. Yeah. But I mean,

[00:16:02] I, I know that some of the things at least reflect a little bit, so, uh, that's, that's what pop culture knowledge does for you, which I have a lot of apparently. All right. So, uh, is that it? Yep. Okay. Uh, yeah. All right. We'll take a quick break and we will come back and get into our points.

[00:16:20] Awesome. Okay. And we are back. Um, all right, let's go ahead and get into our points in the episode.

[00:16:46] Um, how about you start off and then we've got like six of the possibilities. Which one do you want to start with? Yeah. I think let's just start in with kind of where, where we opened up, not the cold open, but just in general, like going into cold rocks hold and like them being out in the IEL waste and getting more insight into, I think the IEL people. Um, and I think just a little

[00:17:11] bit of Rand specific stuff within that. Um, and so it was cool as they were walking in, you know, I felt like last week, Avienda surprisingly was so kind of cold to Rand, even as she left, um, Ruidian seeing that he was marked as the Karakaran and he seemed to really be

[00:17:35] humble in his approach to her. Um, and then I still feel like as this episode, as they walked into cold rocks hold that she still seemed very dismissive of him still. Um, they were discussing, we learned that Savannah and her people rejected Rand as the Karakaran. Um, and Avienda is just like,

[00:17:59] like, understandably and not, I mean, I don't think she's wrong for saying that. Like it's a reasonable thing for her to recognize that a lot of the IEL people may not accept someone who did not grow up learning their customs and culture, but I just feel like she's been around him long enough to at least like understand he has good intentions. She's seen like he wants to fulfill this. He wants to try. He wants to be open. And so it was just surprising to me how

[00:18:28] it wasn't just like understandably when she said that about Savannah, it was like, yeah, I get why she did that. And I kind of think I would too almost is how I still felt her attitude was. Um, I'm guessing we're going to see as the episodes progress her softening on that, given that the wise ones, uh, bear and, uh, Malayne said, all right, like let's check your bad attitude at the door. You're going to go spend every waking moment with Rand.

[00:18:58] As your first lesson. Um, so I'm guessing we're going to build through the story to her possibly. Well, I mean, I guess I'm assuming she's going to soften to Rand because I want to believe Avienda is going to continue being a main part of the story, but I guess other option is she could get really annoyed with him and, uh, completely dismiss him. But I don't really see that

[00:19:23] being what happens. I feel like you would also be, it would be difficult to do that with the wise ones, like straight up telling you, no, he is the Karkarn, whether you like it or not. Uh, and you know, we are your bosses now we're the captains now. And, uh, I'm just like, uh, so I was thinking about this and I, I may have seen the comment online about or something like that, but, um,

[00:19:53] that kind of made me remember it, but it makes me wonder what Avienda saw in the rings. What were her versions of the thousand thousand, uh, turns of the wheel? Um, probably not great from what we know of prophecy. We probably saw her seeing a thousand iterations of the IEL people being destroyed because good or bad, isn't that what happens? Yeah. Does, does Rand, does she, did she, did she

[00:20:20] watch Rand destroy her people over and over and over again? So like, uh, you know, okay. Yeah. Oh, sure. Fair point. That I, if you're like, Hey, like in 47% of the situations, like I killed you. And in the 22 of them, like I watched you destroy my people and nothing good ever came of you being

[00:20:42] the leader of my people. Um, I mean, I, it makes me wonder what she saw and, uh, although, you know, what, what, what that table turning thing of Moiraine's would have seen. Do we see something where it is a repeated thing over and over and over again? Or is it a matter of, you know, something completely different from, you know, time after time after time? Yeah, no, that's a

[00:21:08] really good point. I hadn't really thought about the fact that, um, her future is now intimately entwined with Rand's timeline and she had to have seen a lot of terrible ways that the IEL people fail given the prophecy. So no, I think that shifts things a little bit more.

[00:21:34] Um, I will say Avienda looks really, really weird in wise one clothing after the Caden sword. I was trying to figure out what's so different. It's the eyeliner. When she had, um, her warrior get up on, she had some very dark eyeliner around her eyes. She also, her hair was slightly different. Obviously her get up was different, but I was like, man, she looks so different. And so I looked back at, at the previous episode at her and realized it's just that she's washed her like

[00:22:04] warrior eyeliner off. Um, Oh, so there's less contrast in her face to her clothes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But it's amazing the difference that that little change in, I was like, who is that? I know. Oh, Oh, it's Avienda. Yeah. Um, yeah. So we, like you said, we saw our cold rocks hole. Um, we, which was cool. Really cool. I thought like the almost like

[00:22:30] cut out, like, uh, what do you even call that? Like a, like almost like a Valley, not a Valley, but, uh, uh, uh, yeah, it's a, a dip through the rock. Yeah. They're living. Um, and so I will say, and, and I, I know that somebody mentioned this in the comments to this, when I was watching the episode, I was like, this looks very similar to the rings of power, uh, Harfoot. That's exactly what

[00:22:57] I thought too. I was like, it looks very, very similar. It's just, it's not quite as open as that one was, but it was very, very similar. I was like, Oh, these are both Amazon. Um, that's, it just, it definitely gave me the same feel for sure. Uh, and it was, it was, it was kind of funny. Um, but yeah, so, uh, I, I think that, that seeing, you know, the fact that, Hey, there's probably

[00:23:22] water in this large rock formation and, uh, this is a place that you can't get too far from. It's a good place to have a lot of people that you could, you could, you know, just like watering holes, right. Um, in the jungle, there are watering holes and are on the Savannah, there are watering holes and that's near there is where animals live because that's where an easy access for water is. Um, but the visuals of it, I agree is, I thought it was really, really cool because it just looks like

[00:23:52] a crumbled mountain. Yeah. Um, and you're kind of hidden in, but there's also that like cool arch on topic, it seems like it'd be easy to, you know, have sort of lookouts that could see a very far distance and probably pretty defensible because of the like narrow in and out entrances. This does make me wonder what the waste was when like before the breaking, um, if, if it's all sand

[00:24:17] now, uh, was it an ocean? Was it a, um, yeah, I have no idea. Like it was actually an entire land made out of glass. Oh yeah. That'd be crazy. I'm just kidding. Sorry. No, I know. Um, but, uh, yeah, I thought, I thought that visually it was really, really well put together. Um, I liked, um, in addition to the visual visuals, just like the sort of calls of the IEL we got to hear as they

[00:24:45] entered the city, sort of like cheering and, and welcoming them in. Um, I don't know. I just thought that was a cool like backdrop. It almost made me feel, I know we keep being like, it reminded me of this or that fantasy world, but that moment, something about it made me feel like very star Wars ask, like them walking back in and sort of the Jubilee of the heroes walking into the city.

[00:25:09] Well, it makes me wonder how long has Rework and company been gone? Um, have they, you know, is this them coming back after a week? Is this them having been gone for two months, three months? Um, you know, I can't imagine that this is a, you know, when your clan chief returns after like three days, like I doubt that's the, this is the return, the greeting that you get,

[00:25:33] but it was like, Hey, we went off to go do whatever mission or whatever, like, or is it because it's Rand and people have talked about it because obviously, uh, what's Alcera. Um, so I'm assuming that it was Leon's daughter. I don't, maybe it was bear. I don't know. Um, no, sorry. Leon's great daughter, granddaughter, granddaughter. So Rework's great daughter, granddaughter, whatever.

[00:26:02] Yeah. Um, so whoever their kids are, so you're, whatever that gap is. We know that bear and Malaine were talking with the other, their sisters, the other wise ones across all of the different aisle. Um, what do you call them? Clans groups, clans. Um, and so I'm assuming that also means they

[00:26:26] were telling sort of their own other clan sisters back home and I bet that's how they very quickly communicate. Right. Yeah. I know that they, they communicate via dreams or at least that's what it sounds like very specifically like between all the wise ones. Um, and, um, so, so we, as I said, we, we met, uh, you know, Rework's wife, bear and Rework's wife, Leon. Um, and then their granddaughter,

[00:26:54] great daughter, great daughter, all Sarah, um, who ran seemed to have an easier time bonding with the little girl. Yeah. And like, it was just easier than trying to play the politics or convince people of what he is. It's, Hey, let me just play with these kids or this kid in particular. I didn't really quite understand like the, maybe that's just instincts, right? Like maybe that's a kid's

[00:27:19] instincts. Oh, somebody comes chasing after you. Um, then you, you run away, but it did seem, it seemed a little bit weird to me that he would just go like, yeah, it was a strange interaction. I mean, I get the word, what they were going for. Like you have this child who's just excited about this like prophecy they've heard about and doesn't have this built up sort of, you know,

[00:27:44] prejudice against someone who didn't grow up amongst them because she's still young and that doesn't matter as much to her. Um, and that being easier for Rand. The fact that she kept calling him Rand Althor. Yeah. It was funny. Um, and, and it was another occasion to just see Rand trying to be

[00:28:05] soft, trying to, trying to be, trying his best to be part of the Aiel culture. And we got the backdrop of Avienda just like rolling her eyes at him as he's trying to, you know, be gracious about the squash and to be kind at dinner, um, rolling her eyes and then basically telling him, well, like, you're doing it with the wrong hand and, you know, very judgmental.

[00:28:30] Anyway, it doesn't make sense. Oh, oh, you with your right hand. What? Oh, it's polite in Aiel culture to talk to people on both sides of you. Well, are you talking to the person on the other side? Could you not talk to me? Cause you're just really just, you're just grating at me cause it just feels like insult after insult. Yeah. Although she did say, oh, but who, those of us who have been instructed to instruct via, instead of, you know, discuss like, like, all right, dude,

[00:28:59] like chill. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think, I mean, it's just sort of ridiculous. Like, I feel like she's been around long enough to realize like Rand didn't choose this. Like it's kind of been thrust upon him and he's just doing his best. But yeah. Um, I think we, we also got, I mean, very obviously from Roark having two wives, but then Avienda sort of having that little tidbit of discussion

[00:29:25] at the meal about like sort of how common having, uh, like, uh, polyamorous relationships, I guess, is within the Aiel culture. Um, and that almost the idea of just having one, like one partner is almost like an unfair burden to the partner. Um, which I can see that. I can see that. I mean,

[00:29:54] having said that, like, you know, you just, and I get it. We, we've seen cultures from all over, but like Alana and Ivan and, uh, and Maxim are in a polyamorous relationship. And so it's not like this is something that doesn't happen on the Western side of the wall, but, or sorry, of the spine. Yeah. But I mean, like, I, I guess maybe it's not in a small town. That's not something that you

[00:30:20] hear about all the time. I think so. Cause I remember Nainave being like, well, the first time she realized all three of them were together. So I think it's like not crazy, but maybe not like terribly, terribly common. Whereas it seems to be the common way to do things for Aiel. Right. Yeah. It's kind of interesting.

[00:30:43] And then I'm guessing hopefully soon we get to see all of the different Aiel clans gathering together to decide on whether they're going to follow Rand or not. They mentioned that. That all care doll. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm hoping, I'm guessing the next couple episodes, we're going to see that play out. Should be interesting. I'm sure it will be dramatic and we'll have lots of people who do not want to

[00:31:08] follow him. All right. While we are in the waste, I'll go ahead and address Moiraine while she's, you know, while we're just talking about it. So at the beginning, you know, we see her like almost practicing with the Sakarnan. And I was trying to see if like whatever she formed in the,

[00:31:33] in the sand was like a particular design or something like that. But it, I don't think that it was, I think I was looking for some sort of similarity. You might have been able to make the argument that it was the dragon's tear and the Aes Sedai symbol, which is, you know, our dragon's fang, excuse me.

[00:31:56] And, and the Aes Sedai symbol. But I feel like that would be like, oh, hey, I'm trying to fit something into what could be here. Same thing with the, later on with the, the ring of white cloak bodies when after Alana and Maxim, well, I, again, they're in kind of a circle and kind of like, I feel like maybe I'm trying to make it match something in my head or hoping that it would,

[00:32:26] but I don't think it actually was. But then, so we, you know, we only get a small bit of Moiraine and Lan, but, you know, her telling him that one, the whole, oh, it was euphoric to feel you, you know, handling that much of the power, but there's also like a thirst, like, oh, it makes me want more. I thought that was interesting. And then, and then, you know, Moiraine understanding that

[00:32:55] she's just like, I, I'm not gonna, I have to die in order for Rand to, you know, to, to win. Yeah. And like, and that's, that's hard for her, in my opinion. Yeah. Because you have, you have a, you come to find out that in order for your plan to succeed, in order for your, the last couple of

[00:33:22] decades of work to have paid off for you to give up your relationship with your lover of, you know, a long time, um, you can't be, be there to see the, the end result. Um, so the loss of purpose, um, the culmination, you know, missing the culmination of, of your plans and your ideas

[00:33:45] and your sacrifice, that's, that's a hard pill to swallow. Yeah. There's really no payoff to her for it all. You know, she has to literally, she's sacrificed her whole life and now she has to do it completely and not even get to see, um, the positive outcomes of it. Just for a chance, right? Yeah.

[00:34:09] For a, she just knew that if she lived, none of the future she saw ran when, um, and so I don't know how much she saw at past her death in her, in her futures. Um, but like, it's just hard. Yeah. I thought it was really sweet the way Lan responded though. Um, with his, well, did you see that if you

[00:34:37] have to die tonight? Like, if not, I think like we can hang out, we can drink. Here's this Aiel Uskwey, um, that sounded like it tasted terrible, but, um, seemed to be what she probably needed in this moment. Yeah. I think that he, I think this is another instance where, where he kind of balanced her

[00:35:03] and was able to kind of ground her and, and I back to something I said episodes ago, like, I feel like the, uh, maybe years ago, uh, I feel like the chemistry between, uh, Daniel Henney and Rosamund Pike is phenomenal. And I feel like they're, they're so well matched.

[00:35:24] They've really exemplified to me very clearly what this bond is supposed to be and what it can be. Um, and the show in general has done that across characters, but I think seeing the platonic bond between Lan and Moraine has been really cool to see how they've portrayed that and shown them

[00:35:50] as a relationship closer than a brother or sister, different than a romantic partner. Um, it's been cool to see that like displayed in a lot of different ways throughout the series. Um, and I think episodes like this make me soften quite a bit for Moraine and, um, seeing her and

[00:36:15] share like those happy moments when there've been really so many bad moments for them to share throughout the series. Um, it was just really nice. It felt like a, a moment like the eye of the storm, right? To take a breath in the middle of all the stuff they're going through. So I thought what you said, like referencing about how they were discussing the, the feeling of, um, channeling through the

[00:36:43] Sakarnan was interesting because it really reminded me of what Rand had described about his ability to channel. It sounded close, getting closer to what he feels when he touches the one power. I mean, it didn't seem to have as much of that negative side of things, but, but that thirst, um, that hunger,

[00:37:11] like hunger is a pain, right? And so it, it did seem that once she was tapping into a much stronger power that she was starting to get at least somewhat closer to understanding maybe what he feels when he channels. So I, I think what we saw her doing was, uh, what we saw in the end of season one

[00:37:37] at, at Fal Dara where they, that lady, the one woman was channeling through Egwene and Nainyev and just had so much power and she just had no ability to control. Like once it was flowing through her, you know, trying to stop a dam once it's flowing, it's, it's real hard to let it go or to, to, to bridge it again or not bridge it, but dam it back up, close the dam, whatever. Um, but, uh, I, I think that

[00:38:06] that's kind of what, I think that's what this was, was supposed to, to, to illustrate was that even, even way rain was, you know, a, a seasoned veteran of using the power for a lot of stuff. Um, she had a hard time like controlling it or letting it go once, uh, once it kind of really started raging through her.

[00:38:30] Yeah. I mean, you definitely start to see the like skin glow that indicates like, whoa, slow down or you're going to burn out. So, right. Um, all right. The only other thing that I have, uh, in my notes for the waste is, uh, at that dinner and then specifically, uh, Melindra and Lan, um, discussing Malkia. And

[00:38:57] I really loved what she was saying about Malkia. Like, what do you miss most about it? Although I think maybe my timeline got a little bit skewed. Um, so, you know, what do you miss? And the beauty, we had festivals, poetry, dancing, the nights at the long nights after the dancing. And like, I was like, wait a minute, didn't you say she like left when she was a girl? So like, when you say

[00:39:23] long nights after the dancing, does that mean like hang out with your girlfriends and like at a slumber party or is that like other stuff? And I was just like, it was just weird. I thought other stuff, but I wasn't really reflecting. I had forgotten how old she was when she left. And so, yeah.

[00:39:45] And maybe she was a girl like at 18 or 20. I don't know, but it felt like she was like preteen. Um, so I thought it was just weird. It was weird phrasing. Yeah. Could have been clear. It's okay. Um, but yeah, I was, that was, I thought that was, that was cool. Um, and I think that, that that bond between Lan and Melinda is only going to grow.

[00:40:13] And I think we're continuing to see her and several things this season really set the stage that like, it seems like Lan is going to need to fulfill some sort of destiny to go back and reclaim him, his, you know, reclaim Malkir, right. And rebuild and reform. Right. Um, I feel like every episode that he's been in, we've had some reminder that like, Hey,

[00:40:39] you belong to Malkir. Like you need to think about this. So what are you doing right now? He's like, I feel like you have a different job, um, but that's all I have for, uh, Moiraine, Rand, Aiel Waste, uh, until Moiraine in the dream, I'm sorry, Rand in the dream at the end and Moiraine in the dream at the end. Yeah. Okay. Um, all right. So let's go ahead and

[00:41:08] let's, let's shift over to Aguaine who was also in, uh, in the waste, but we'll talk about some, some dreaming stuff. Yeah. Perfect. Um, so we saw some stuff, uh, but I feel like it was supposed to be like a bigger chunk of the episode than it was because I don't have a ton of notes on it,

[00:41:32] but I, uh, but like there was, I feel like there were only a few, a couple of, of like dreaming scenes. So, um, you know, she moves from, um, moves out of Rand's room and, or at least their combined room and then, you know, moves in with the wise ones. And then they are, are pulled, uh, to go,

[00:41:59] uh, or she is pulled by Malina Bear to go and like practice. And so, Hey, we're gonna go, we're gonna take you into the dream world. And I get a little bit confused because I'm not sure if like the dream world is Teleron Riyod, if it is like their dreams, if it is, I don't, I don't know. So what I have written down is the dream world, but no one's dream. Because what I got from it,

[00:42:28] well, I interpreted from it, which could be wrong, was that Teleron Riyod is the, is a dream world, but it is no, it's not an individual person's dream. It's somewhere you can go walk around almost like a dream and maybe you can use it to go into as a place to go into other people's dreams,

[00:42:56] but it doesn't, like I, I wasn't clear on if it was necessary to go to Teler, Teleron Riyod to then get into someone else's dream. Or later when she goes with Moraine, it seems like she just goes straight into Moraine's dreams. So I'm also confused on like the separation of like what's dream walking and what is actually Teleron Riyod.

[00:43:20] I think that, I think that there is a, a, I guess I'll give my interpretation of what they're saying is that there is a mirror world of our world. Um, in that mirror world, there is there, you know, you can go there and you can meet other people and basically your dreams come true. If you dream

[00:43:46] that there is something that's going to eat you, uh, then, Oh, there it is. And if you can't believe that it's not there or that it can't hurt you, then it will because your nightmares come to reality. Okay. In Teleron Riyod. Um, but in your dreams, they don't, but, and this is an example from the book, uh, is that one of the things that they say, Oh, they wonder, you know, wetlanders wonder why people

[00:44:14] die in their sleep, you know, unexpectedly. Well, like if they were falling and then they like touched Teleron Riyod right before they hit the ground. Well, they just died in Teleron Riyod, not in their dream. And so they, you know, they're, they're, and so I think what I'm, what I'm a little bit

[00:44:35] confused on is Egwene, um, is she was hurt by Lanfear, but she would dream of Rinna and they said, no, that's in your dream. So is, uh, is Lanfear going into her dream and then pulling her into Teleron Riyod or is she physically hurting her in her dream? Uh, because she, I feel like you can't

[00:45:04] be hurt in your own dreams. So I feel like what's happening is that Lanfear would go into her dream, pull her into like basically meld her way into Teleron Riyod and then help her like form her dream for her in Teleron Riyod where she would then repeatedly torture her. Yeah. Um, I think that's a good explanation. I mean, I think those are the only two options is that either the forsaken have

[00:45:33] some sort of special power that allows them to go into your dream and actually hurt you there. Or I think what's more likely is that she somehow slips you from your dream into Teleron Riyod and then she could harm you. I think that makes more sense. Right. I think that's it because the other

[00:45:55] part about it is that at the end, we find out that Rand, when he goes up to the mountains to sit over and watch the rivers, he's not doing it in Teleron Riyod, he's doing it in his own dreams because Egwene is viewing other people's dreams, not Teleron Riyod. Uh, and then she does eventually see Lanfear there. Um, and so, so yeah, I think that that's a pretty good breakdown and I feel like that kind of

[00:46:24] explains how, you know, how that starts to kind of happen. Um, but, uh, I will say that like she turned into good at what she was doing real fast. She's like, Oh, okay, cool. I just have to believe him somewhere else. And then she disappears. And then she's like, Oh, well,

[00:46:50] I'm sorry. I didn't mean to come to Tar Valon, but it just happened. Well, how did you like, why not just go? Oh, I'm supposed to be in cold rocks. Hold. Let me focus back on a cold rocks. So that I call her cold rocks hold so that I don't mess this up or as I don't, you know, end up in a crazy amount of trouble. Hey, bear, uh, Malayne, where are you? Oh wait, maybe I should

[00:47:17] go to where they are. Cause I literally just was not here. I thought it was just really, really dumb. Um, yeah. And I just was irritated about it. I think I actually had like an opposite reaction because I was like, I feel like they just like told her to do this. She did it. And then Malayne is like, how dare you do what we just told you to do. So I, I, again, I see her getting like

[00:47:46] distracted as soon as she got there because there was that little like sprite child running around. Yeah. The, one of the child touching, touching the dream world. Yeah. Um, like I can, I can appreciate that, but she, like, she, she literally said out loud, Oh, I didn't mean to do this. Like then undo it. If you didn't mean to do it and you're like, Oh, you know, what's a good idea.

[00:48:13] I should go wander around here by myself. And you know, when I don't think that I don't necessarily know everything and I'm receiving training, I know I should go explore a dark place that I don't necessarily like know what can happen. So fantastic. That's real smart. Um, I think that it goes back to what Malayne says, she says she takes on too much. She's too eager. I feel like

[00:48:39] you're a year. I think it's kind of like a halfway between, right? It's she has the capability. She just doesn't have the focus and the concentration yet. And it's, I think that is part of, I think that is, is what is happening instead of, Oh, I'm just trying to go out there and find a bunch of crazy stuff. I'll tell you what, if you guys knew that the shadow sold, i.e. forsaken,

[00:49:04] were after her at that moment, like, how about you do something to help her out? Right. Literally. I mean, I guess you're, you'd be sacrificing yourself for like, you don't know what power, what power Lanphier has or what capability she has. But yeah, I was a little bit irritated. I got, I got more irritated when she, because to me, I could be like, ah, she kind of like

[00:49:31] accidentally got, went a little too far with it and then got distracted. And then like immediately Lanphier was on her. I was more annoyed with her later in the episode when she snuck off to do it with Moraine after having the, in her face lesson of how dangerous it was and how close she came to Lanphier being able to kill her and tell her on road. And I know she thought she was being safer,

[00:49:53] by just going through, you know, Moraine's dreams, but that still felt like, I think you're gonna get a lot of trouble with Bear and, uh, I can never remember. Malaine. Malaine. Um, with Bear and Malaine for like going and doing this without them after they like really explicitly said, don't do this without us.

[00:50:16] Now, I think, I think that she can maybe make like the, the thought of like, Hey, I didn't go in a Teleron Rio. I went into Moraine's dreams. And so then we went and visited other people's dreams, which let me just very, very specifically say for the record, that is complete and utter

[00:50:39] invasion of privacy. Like that, that, like that is so beyond the, Oh, well I can. So I'm going to go, you know, look in on what other people are thinking and other people are dreaming and it, and I get it. She like saw Anphier and ran stream and yeah, well, it's good that she did see something so that she can address it or whatever, but no, that's like wildly private stuff.

[00:51:06] Like, I thought it was strange too. And they were framing it as she was going to check on everyone before Rand as this really like sweet, positive thing. Like she's so heartwarming and it felt like this positive thing, but I couldn't help thinking like, you know, I'd be kind of pissed at one of my friends if they were just sneaking into my dreams unbeknownst to me. Like it definitely

[00:51:30] feels, I mean, it's reading your mind essentially, right? Like your uncontrolled mind essentially, you know? Moiraine going into Swan's dream. Hey, I have to deliver a message from you. That's like, I didn't have any other way to do this. I get it. Like that is a complete and utter, totally understand, but to go into someone else's dream without their permission to just,

[00:51:55] you know, check on them is, yeah, I thought that was a wild invasion of privacy, even if, you know, she was maybe doing it with what, for what she thought were the right reasons. Why could no one see her though? Why, why could Swan see Moiraine? Why could Egwaine and Bear see each other when Egwaine accidentally ran into Bear's dream all

[00:52:23] those episodes ago, but then suddenly none of Egwaine's friends could see her when she's in their dream? Like that didn't make sense to me. Yeah. I mean, maybe it's a matter of like fine tuning stuff. Like obviously there's more stuff she doesn't know. Obviously. And like she, I mean, what's funny about it is that can she go admit to other people that, to Tim Moiraine and Bear that she like went into other people's dreams? Why can't they see me?

[00:52:51] That's weird. Oh no, I have to tell you. No, you probably say you shouldn't go into other people's dreams. Period. Like don't do it. Anyway. Yeah. So, so that, you know, we, I will say like, I just want to be very specific. Like that was complete and utter crap. Um, and then we, uh, I am going to just kind of list off what she saw in their dreams. Um,

[00:53:19] so there was, uh, Nynaeve and Elnor. Um, so she was just talking to her daughter as, as though she was talking to, um, you know, like she was talking to Egwaine back in the two rivers. Yeah. Uh, uh, Elaine, uh, on the, on the sea folk ship, uh, you know, doing her wind finding stuff. And then Avienda showing up and, uh, them connecting there, uh, seeing Matt and, uh,

[00:53:47] and his, and his family, like, Oh, I'm so proud of you. And that, that's, that stung, uh, at that point, given what had just happened previously. Well, and remembering back to the last thing his mom ever said to him, which was like, you're never going to be any better than your drunk father. Yeah. You'll just be a prick like him. That was pretty heartbreaking to see that dream in the context of those things. Yeah. Well, to know that Matt, that's all Matt is, that's what Matt is dreaming for.

[00:54:17] And also to know that we just watched out of, you know, the, the white clock closing, we know that's never going to happen. Yeah. And that was, you know, that was, that was harsh. That was hard. Um, and then, uh, Perrin and Hopper, Perrin's in the two rivers, uh, you know, making weapons, uh, Hopper's in the dream with them and then fail shows up. So it's like, Oh,

[00:54:42] or Fahil, Fahil shows up. Uh, and then we get to random land fear, uh, which I, to me, it was a little bit goofy. It was almost like, uh, like with land fear's hand coming up around his head. It was very like the conjuring or the ring or something like that. Um, but so yeah, those are the dreams that we saw. Um, and, uh, that's, that was, that was that. That's just what I'll say.

[00:55:11] Do we want to talk about Moiraine's dream? Yeah. You want to let's, let's, let's wrap up with Moiraine and Swan and then we'll, we'll take a break. So what do you got? Moiraine, you know, of course, Swan is always in a fishing hut. Apparently that is the only dream she has. And her only heart's desire is to have, I think, gone back and ran away and loved Moiraine in a fishing hut.

[00:55:41] Um, so Moiraine runs in there and like, has, I noticed that she started out saying like, I know two things or there's two things I need to tell you, but she only told her the one. Like she didn't actually tell her right that, um, she didn't tell her what she told land that she's going to have to die. Right. She did not specifically say, she did not say number one,

[00:56:08] the white tower needs to bend the knee to Randall Thor, or he will lose the last battle. And number two, I will be dead or he will lose the last battle. He did. She does not flat out say it, but again, back going back to words matter words. Like the, what an I said, I says it has to be true. And the notes that I wrote on it were, she said,

[00:56:37] I will, you know, in this life or the next, like we, what we had, we've broken what we had. We can't repair it. Not in this life. And Swan said, well, I'll find you. And, you know, in this life or the next. And my reigns response was, I'll wait for you. I'll wait for you every time, which to me is saying,

[00:57:05] I will die before you will. I have like, I'm, this is the closest she could come to say, I'm going to die. And probably relatively soon if we need for our plans to, to, to go well. And like, and that, I think that the, I'll tell you like these two as well. So resident Pike, and I can't remember the, the actor's name who plays Swan. But, but like they have good chemistry as well.

[00:57:34] They have very good romantic chemistry. They really do. And it was very, I thought it was a very, very strong scene. I did think it was funny that Swan was like, oh, you went through the rings. You know, I wish we just never walked into that, that thing in the office, in guitarist's office. Like, I wish we'd just run away. just stolen a couple of horses and gone and lived by the river. She's like, yes. And I was like, oh,

[00:58:04] you saw that life. You saw that in the rings. She did. And so, uh, I thought that was, that was interesting. Like, uh, I know what that life would have been like. And I know at least how some of that would have turned out. Um, but yeah, it was, it was, it was hard. It was, it was definitely hard. Uh, and, and like that is crazy because all of that kind of overshadows what she said, which was,

[00:58:33] you need to prepare the tower to bend the knee to ran period. Like that all overshadowed that basis of the, I did like the, the idea that, Oh no, it should have been you. You know, you should have been the one. I should have gone and found him. And, and I, you know, and, and you should have been the Amberlynn. And she's like, I make two enemies too easily. Like I, I say one thing and it pisses people off. Like you were able to like gather support. And.

[00:59:04] Seems like, based on other things going on, she's going to need some of that support soon. Yeah. It was interesting that comment. And then remembering how many times we saw a future where Moiraine did become the Amberlynn seat. Right. So I thought that was interesting. And so I feel like all this is so new to Moiraine to accept it. But like the reality is, I think the final battle is still quite a ways away.

[00:59:34] And so it's not, as like Lan said, she's not dying tonight. Like, I think she still is a lot ahead of her to see her. I hope so. I know I get annoyed with Moiraine a lot, but she feels pretty important to, to keeping a lot of our characters on track. What it does make me wonder though, is that in the, those thousand, thousand turns of the wheel, is she seeing it beginning of her life to the end? Is it from that point forward only?

[01:00:03] Is it like, I just don't, I'm really curious about it because obviously I will not, maybe not obviously, but I don't think it was like lived in real time, but like if it took seven days for all of this stuff to go through your head, it was, it's, it's one, it's a lot. And two, like, were you watching your life from the beginning to the end over and over and over again?

[01:00:28] And did you see other possibilities and what you could have done differently in this point and change your path? Or did it all start after she came out of the rings? Interesting. I think the other thing that keeps popping into my head and thinking through all of this is the warning that Bear gave. Last week, just about how knowing the future doesn't necessarily mean you're interpreting everything right and it can actually,

[01:00:57] an incorrect interpretation can actually be pretty dangerous and make you mess stuff up, you know, even worse. So also thinking of that in mind and like, because we don't have insights into exactly what Weiraine saw in those iterations, like, could there be things that she feels certain that she knows that, actually aren't quite accurate? Like, yeah, what, what did she see? Did she see flickering timelines like we saw? Or was it very,

[01:01:26] very clear to her? She seems confident. They said you'd feel confident in some things that are not for you and that are, but is there room for misinterpretations? Right. All right. Anything else for Weiraine Swan? That is it for me. All right. I think I am good. We'll go ahead and take another break and we will be back in a few. Awesome.

[01:02:16] Okay. And we are back. So now next point, Veronica, we've only got a couple of storylines left. What do you, what do you want to start with? I want to talk about the two rivers. Okay. And a lot happened here with this attack on the white cloaks, but I think my favorite part of this whole episode was Alana, her storyline and, and what's been going on with her Maxim and some of the stuff that,

[01:02:43] some of the questions that were very directly answered about that, this episode. Um, so we get them all sort of deciding, Hey, tonight's the night. We have to go attack the white cloaks because they have reinforcements coming and it's sort of now or never to get Matt's family free. And so Perrin, Bane, Ciad, fail. All go into the, are all going to go into the camp. Loyal is waiting with horses for an escape.

[01:03:12] Alana is supposed to be waiting to heal. If anyone gets injured just to be as backup. Um, but they're about to go launch this plan. And Alana's like, Hey, like it's a very clear night. The moon is very bright. This is not like the best for an ambush. I really think I need to provide comfort. However, Maxim is pretty pissed at her because he knows this is like setting up a, a flare gun that, Hey,

[01:03:40] there's an Aes Sedai here to a group of people who would love nothing more than to hunt down an Aes Sedai. Um, but we know Alana seems to always do what Alana wants to do. And so she sends in a smoke as, or like a fog as cover over the camp, which immediately alerts stupid Aemon. Aemon. What's his, what's the, Aemon Valda. Aemon Valda. Um, that, Hey, there's an Aes Sedai. Hey,

[01:04:10] who wants to go hunt, uh, the big fish down with me? Um, I know I just killed Matt's mom, but that was nothing. This is, this is what I want to go do. Um, and so she's up there still just like keeping the fog going. And he surrounds her with a bunch of his men and crossbows. And I guess I was having a hard time with how much they were hitting her with these arrows.

[01:04:38] When just a few episodes ago, we saw her fighting quite a few black, very powerful black Aja. And I know she had her two warders with her, but the ease with which some men who have no access to the one power were able to really take her down with some crossbows felt inconsistent with the warrior. We saw her being very recently.

[01:05:08] I mean, I get they had her surrounded and she seems to only really be able to do that, like shield in the direction she's facing. And she's used to having a warder, two warders kind of covering her flanks. But did you have a problem with how she was getting just shot up? I, I have a,

[01:05:35] I have a problem with her presenting a giant ass target to crossbowers. Hey, I just got hit in the back with the crossbow. Um, maybe, uh, I should like lay down on the ground and, or maybe move away from the place that they, I'm in fog. I'm in fog. You can move around in fog. And as long as you're relatively quiet, you know,

[01:06:04] even in a dead silent forest, like you're better off than just standing in the exact same place that you have been. And I get it. You're, you know, Oh, I've got the one power. I've got the, and I'll be honest. I think that they, like the air arrows that she was shooting the people, the guys with were really, really cool and effective. Um, but I just, it, the tactical, the tactical acumen, uh, of fighting at this point, it was, it seemed to be lost.

[01:06:34] Um, and that's, that's frustrating. Um, I, I do think just like, you know, just like you said, just like Maxim was saying like, Hey, it's a clear night. If there's fog, it's going to be obvious. This is unnatural. Yeah. And the instant that, Oh, there's some fog. That's really weird because like 20 minutes ago, there was zero fog. And I don't see, I don't sound like, it sounds like a change in pressure or, or a change in temperature that would cause the fog to come or whatever. It was just, it was very,

[01:07:06] and I get it. She can't sit on the sidelines. She can't make herself do it. Yeah. But at that point, you might as well just go in there and start murdering some white cloaks. I guess you can't because you have to have your life under, like under attack or whatever. But, um, yeah, I didn't, wasn't a huge fan of it. I, I will, despite my qualms with it, I still, uh,

[01:07:35] thought she was kind of a badass getting shot that many times and keep it a stand up. So that was still a plus for me. And then it allowed Maxim who had just left in a really terrible way with her slamming the bond down. And allowed him to come back and rescue her in a pretty like epic hero moment. Um, and so again, despite all my qualms with it, kind of getting those moments, um, allowed me to like, still really like this piece of the episode.

[01:08:05] Oh, Alana is a bad bitch. Yeah. Like she, she, she is a bad bitch. I wish she was smarter sometimes. Um, but she a bad bitch. I loved, she turns to him and she's like, how did you find me? And he's like, you literally like restored the bond like five arrows ago. Like you were under duress. And I guess it was like your natural inclination. She didn't even like realize she had done it. Um,

[01:08:33] but I guess I skipped over him leaving when he's pissed that she's sending in the fog. And we finally get her very explicitly stating to him why they are in the two rivers, which I think you, did we, did we get a reference to this last episode or did you just say like, I feel like we, you speculated on this already, maybe last episode, but she explicitly says to Maxim,

[01:08:59] like I'm here because we found all these really strong channelers in the two rivers. There's something going on here. These are the descendants of Manatherin. Um, we are woefully prepared for the final battle. I realized that intimately with the loss of Ivan. Um, and we need to be stronger. And so I'm here to find more people that can channel who might be some really powerful channelers. I don't,

[01:09:28] I don't just think that it is channelers. I think she's also looking for armies. Like she's looking for, for, for people who are, you know, self-sufficient and willing to stand up for themselves. And, you know, she's looking to fortify humanity. And this is a strong place in history where they historically were like, we can take care of ourselves.

[01:09:57] Even if we think help is coming, we will do everything we can to survive or at least to, to win. Um, and, uh, let's, let's go back to, to the, that departure again. Um, I'm just going to say that both of them are being wildly unfair to each other. Um, like Maxim very specifically says, you know, I,

[01:10:27] I, I'm not going to let you throw my life away. Like you threw away Ivan's. I was like, that's BS. Like she was out. Like she was knocked out. You went to protect, to protect her. And then Ivan went to protect her. And he's the one who got the sword in the chest. Like, you know that she was unconscious for that. Like, that's not just mean it's untrue and it's unnecessary. And I get it. You're lashing out because a man, the man, the only person, man,

[01:10:57] woman, whatever that you have ever loved died. And I get it. I do understand it. And every many, many people will look for someone to blame in a situation like that. Having said that you guys, all three shared something very, very intimate. And whether you are, whether you want to be fair or not,

[01:11:26] like in my mind, I'm kind of like, be like, Hey, Maxim, here's my grief. I'm showing it to you. So, you know that I didn't just throw Ivan away, but what I am afraid of, what I want to do is I'm afraid that we are not prepared for the last battle. And when that comes, I can't have just sat at my laurels and gone after Leandrin. Like Leandrin isn't what matters right now. What matters is winning.

[01:11:55] You don't care about dragons. I get it. You don't care about the last battle. I get it. I do. And I am looking to save as many people as I possibly can. And I just like, I feel like, again, back to the whole idea of if we just talk to each other, if we just communicate, things might be a little bit easier and we might be able to like, listen to each other. And even if you don't agree,

[01:12:25] at least you're communicating the why's and the how's. So stupid. You sound like me this week. And it's so funny because this is the one time where everything you're saying makes total sense. I agree with you. What they're doing is super frustrating. And I sort of love it because I think they're doing grief really well. Like this is exactly how people act when they're going through romance grief. Just as you said,

[01:12:53] like that inclination to find meaning, to find blame, to seek retribution. Like all those things are such natural reactions and they make you, when your emotions are running that high, what's rational doesn't really matter anymore. And so even though I'm finding it similarly frustrating and like, oh my God, you guys are both mourning the same thing. Like you could like come together and actually do this. Do it together.

[01:13:22] It feels so human and so real to me that like, I I'm loving the way the show is sort of handling them processing this. It feels very real. I am. I am very much a logical person. Um, I like to base most of my actions, reactions on logic. Do sometimes things escape that? Absolutely. Um, about nine years ago,

[01:13:51] my brother was killed in a construction accident and it was like, okay, well, I'm on the phone with my mom and my mom and I are both talking, you know, like the cat died. Like, oh, okay, well, let me know how things are going. Um, you know, if you, if I could do anything, please let me know. Just keep me updated. Uh, you know, we're not, we're not 100% sure what happened, but he's in the hospital and blah, blah, blah. And, and it was, and I,

[01:14:19] we were overheard and, uh, the, the, you know, someone told me like, that's not normal. Like to react like that when a loved one is potentially dying, isn't normal. And my viewpoint of it is, well, like you have to take care of business. You have to get things done. And I was told that, well, that's not grieving. Well, I will beg, beg to differ. Like, right. People grieve in different ways. Grief.

[01:14:48] There's no one description for grief, right? Like people act all kinds of ways. Um, no. And sometimes compartmentalizing it and turning grief into action is a form of grief, right? Like, like how can I organize this and process it? You know? Yeah. No, it makes sense. Yeah. So like that. And so there I can see where Alana is coming from. Having said that,

[01:15:14] I also think I know how the bond works and you could like crack open your door a little bit. Yeah. And maybe if he understood a little bit of it, then it wouldn't. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. Uh, but anyway, so, uh, anything else on Alana and Maxim? I do agree. Like that was, I think those were some very powerful moments as well as an opportunity, albeit stupidly, um,

[01:15:42] for Maxim to come in and kind of save the day a little bit. I'm just wondering who's going to patch up all these, uh, heroes because again, back to the idea. I'm sorry. Like that. I'm going to be very, very frustrated if like, there's no ill consequence to this. Like, is there an, is there an I said, I that like Matt sister, Matt's little sister is very quickly going to learn. Yeah. Like,

[01:16:12] Oh yeah, just do this. And like, are you kidding me? Come on. Like she accidentally like blew back a dude who was like choking out her mom or whatever, his mom or whatever. Like, yeah, it just, I, I, I, I'm hoping when we see them, they're all just like in bed recovery. I'm going to be really, really irritated if Alana is like, Oh yeah. Like, Oh, I found some sister to heal me. You know? Yeah. Maxim only had to like carry me, with five or six, you know,

[01:16:42] crossbow bolts in me and one crossbow in him back to the encampment or to the horses where Loyal was at. I just, this is why the ice and I shouldn't have gone out there anyway. No, for sure. Whew. Okay. Um, all right. So the things that we did see, right. Uh, in addition to this in the two rivers, uh, Dane Bornhall, uh, defending Natty and the girls, not giving them over to the questioning. Um,

[01:17:11] and then now he tries to steal the key. And then, you know, he's like, why'd you do that? It didn't make any sense. Well, I'm now I'm going to have to beat you. And then he gets blown back with a power. And it's like, no, it was me like, Oh God, that's harsh. Yeah. And, uh, and then, you know, she paid the ultimate price for it. Um, we did get to seal, see, uh, fail in action. Um, and I hope we get to see her fights more.

[01:17:41] That was awesome. But more. And it was funny because I like, I, you know, it felt like there were a lot of like quick cuts, which I mean, and I'm not suggesting that we should see every moment and whatever, but, and it did appear very impressive. Uh, but I was just like, Oh man, like that's, I'm almost like so much is happening on screen and there's cutting so much that I'm like, wait, what's happening? Who is this? Ah, who just got stabbed? Who stabbed them? Ah,

[01:18:11] Oh my God, what's happening? Uh, it ends up being a little bit confusing because I, but there's so much action happening and such like close shots and cuts and swishes and that. And I'm like, I have to go back and watch this three times in order to figure out who got stabbed where. Yeah. I was going to say, not just who stabbed who, but where did they stab them? And could this be a critical wound or are they going to recover from it? Because like Dane, it seemed like her knife hit him in the shoulder. Like he's fallen down in that scene,

[01:18:40] but I think he's going to stand back up. Um, he got, he got parent in the gut though, right? Yeah. He got parent in the gut. Again, who's going to heal parent fail was trying to get him to stand up, but we didn't actually see them get out of there. I'm assuming, uh, Chad and Brad, I keep calling Chai. Yeah. Bane and Chad. Um, I'm assuming they got away with the girls too,

[01:19:09] but we didn't actually like see them fully exit the camp. We didn't really see any of our heroes in the two rivers fully escape. Um, notably, Aemon was not one of the white cloaks that was killed by Maxim. Um, well, I was wondering, that's what I was trying to figure out. Where the hell did he go? I guess he ran away when he saw like all of the white cloak assassination going on. But I mean, I was just like,

[01:19:38] why wouldn't he like, Hey, I'm going to be standing by with a crossbow bolt, ready to knock her, hit her in the head or hit her again. If she gets back up. Yeah. But yeah, I, I, maybe he just, Oh, you know what? I'll go find something else to do. Cause I'm a little bitch. He's terrible. It's going to be a satisfying death eventually. Or better be. Um, but yeah, that was, um, and yeah.

[01:20:08] So where is Valda is my last note. Like what, what is happening? Um, seeing Natty's face when she was on the, like on the, uh, be on the cross or whatever. Oh, and all the wolves heads too. Oh yeah. The wolves heads. That's right. Yeah. Poor parent got some trauma and quick succession there. And I feel like, I feel like maybe I would be like, Hey, um, like maybe I should like get some wolf help. Yeah.

[01:20:38] Uh, like maybe reach out. Maybe. Um, maybe he's been trying and there's no wolves to hear him. Cause they're all dead. Yeah. That's, that's a very, that's a very valid point. Um, the, uh, so there is a character child by our, that Valda spoke to. He become, he, you know, he becomes a little bit more of a character in the book. Um, not that, uh, I'm not going to talk a ton about him, but I was like, Oh, child by our, all right. Got it.

[01:21:07] That's cool. Um, yeah, that's about all I have for two rivers. Do you have anything else? That was it. All right. All right. I'm going to go ahead and, uh, I'm going to hit Elida and the white tower. Awesome. So, um, what we got from the white tower and Elida was one.

[01:21:31] I'm just going to say that I can appreciate Elida and the respect that she commands. Um, um, and I can appreciate the fact that she takes action. Um, in order to, I'm not like the girls that, you know, enter interviewed you before. Like I'm your, Oh, I told her I would negotiate. Oh, there will be no negotiation. You're a black odd jaw girl.

[01:22:00] Like you will not leave the cell alive. And I, I can appreciate that. I'm going to very specifically say, appreciate it. I don't like it necessarily, but I can appreciate it. I believe that practically every other scene that Elida was in, in this was to undermine our potential liking of her. Um, and the reason I say that,

[01:22:31] so we go in, we first see her as she comes in for her private audience with the Amarillian talking to Swan. Swan and she starts off just insulting, uh, Swan is like, is it strategic for her to come in and start insulting Swan to try to like put Swan on the defensive and maybe make her slip up. Is she literally just coming to tell her this thing that just to make sure that she heard it because she told men and men needed to, you know, she was hoping men would tell someone else,

[01:23:00] but maybe she did, maybe she didn't. Um, or was it just to show up? Show us the bad blood between Swan and Elida and how much animosity there was between them. Like, was that the whole idea of this coming in and, Oh, Kings and Queens, like, Oh, you're, you're poor. You, this is a Fisher woman's hut. Like this is you, you,

[01:23:26] you can't show greatness unless you are showing off gaudy rugs or fancy chairs or whatever. Like this is ridiculous. Like it, it, it bugs me because different leaders, like all people are different people, right? And all leaders don't have to be the same. They don't have to show the same style of leadership for one person to another. And it doesn't matter to me.

[01:23:52] I don't think it matters if someone is, is in a, a room with million dollar pieces of art, or if it's in an austere place, like it wasn't trashy in there. It was just, it was just, I'll say lower class, right? Hey, we couldn't afford these things. And this is to remind me of where I came from and my roots and all that, but she's the ambulance heat.

[01:24:23] Shouldn't have to explain that to anybody, let alone some sister who's going to challenge her for her bullshit. Sorry. It's a, Elida really hit a nerve with me in, in this particular scene. I think it just sort of showed, you know, some of Elida's classist prejudices and all of those things. I mean, I think this is probably who Elida has always been, but then for at least what, like the last 20 years, she's probably longer than that.

[01:24:52] She's been living at the right hand of a queen. And so right or wrong, she just has a different view of how to, how she thinks you should navigate politics. And she's not wrong that the white tower is not necessarily, and the Issa and I are not necessarily consistently widely respected. And in her head, they used to be. And she thinks it's Swan's fault.

[01:25:22] And I think it's probably much bigger than that. I think the red Aja have probably had things to do with people, feelings on the Issa and I. But yeah, I mean, I think they were setting it up for us to feel like a lot as a worse character than she was to, then she, then maybe, I think they want us to think for sure. She was the black Aja just as Swan did. Right. Um,

[01:25:51] but I don't necessarily fault Alida for her disagreement on how to handle Rand. Like, I think, I think there, an argument can be made for getting behind the dragon in the hopes that he will be able to win the last battle or fear that allowing the dragon to continue to live will really break the entire world again. Like,

[01:26:20] those are both valid fears and concerns. And I don't think, I didn't hate that Alida was trying to push on that. That felt reasonable. Being a jerk about decorating style unnecessary, but I think she's trying to throw Swan off kilter so that she has more sway over, um, you know, trying to sway the power of the white tower,

[01:26:51] essentially away from what Swan's advising. So, right. I thought it was interesting that the plot that Swan hatches with Lanny and Varin is to use Adelaus. Um, and that Adelaus had enough ability to like carry it out. Right. I can, again, back to like, Hey, like we will lay the bait, right?

[01:27:21] We will utilize Adelaus in order to try to, um, in order to, to get her to, to the black Aja and we'll see if she will basically spy on her to see if she is like working with them or just going to silence them or whatever. Um, I get it. I do. I'm just going to say that,

[01:27:47] in a tower where you are not a hundred percent sure who you can trust. You bring in an accepted on a, like on a, I'm you're, we're tempting a light to take the bait. Are you fucking kidding me? Are you serious? We can't trust anybody at all. But no, you know, this accepted, she's not going to say anything. No, no, I totally trust her. What is wrong with you people? Jesus. It felt really heavy handed. And, and what was the plan?

[01:28:17] Like, like they know there's at least one more black Asha. They don't know that there's not more. And so I think they took a big chance that they could have just started another giant fight in the white tower. Right. I just, it just, it just drove me bonkers. I think heavy handed is the right word. Um, they, it was like, they were trying to who,

[01:28:46] whomever, right. Whether it was the, the writers or the people in the, in the, um, you know, the, the characters that it's, it's not a very subtle trap, right? It's not a subtle trap to, for Adelaus who is, you know, ass deep in Varen's business, like to, that she might be like, Oh, Hey, and Elida again, back to what we said a few, two episodes ago,

[01:29:15] all these fucking conversations in, I'll call it broad daylight in open corridors. We're not pulling somebody into a small chamber. We're not doing that. No, no, we're just go away, accept the door. I'll strip your hide off you off, you know, skin off your hide. Oh, hell. Hey, um, what's, what's up right here? Like, I know that I literally just walked down this hall and saw you guys, but you know, like nobody else could possibly understand what it was like. Oh my, they just, no, just bugged the hell out of me.

[01:29:44] Between the accepted and then having these conversations in public, it felt not subtle at all for people who were supposed to have invented the great game. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I agree. Like literally the Amarillian seat, you expect them to be one of the wisest. And I just don't feel like she's being very wise right now. Yeah. And maybe she's, maybe she's do me emergent, right? Maybe she's like, maybe it's the, it's the, it's the, uh,

[01:30:14] bad things are happening. And so I'm a little bit on my heels or, or whatever. Uh, I did like Varen's aspect of, you know, we have to make sure that we cannot mistake suspicion for certainty in the matter of the black. I like that. I really loved the ending, uh, you know, after a lot of goes in there and is, is doing all that.

[01:30:38] And the gray man attacks and Swan and co arrive just at the right time to, you know, be able to kill the gray man before he kills Elida and heal Elida. As Elida's laying there, barely alive, just barely healed. Swan's like, Oh, guess, guess maybe I misjudged you. Like, it just felt almost a little bit cheesy of a line right there for that moment.

[01:31:08] And if I was Elida, I mean, I feel like she's going to be more than pissed. But I am curious, are they now going to work together to root out the black Aja now that they at least have some common ground to walk on? Or is this going to make Elida even more certain that Swan is completely incompetent and try to sway the rest of the white tower with, hey,

[01:31:34] here's a very clear example of how Swan cannot lead things anymore. Yeah. So I want to, I want to address that real quick. Actually, one thing, the, the gray man, I thought that, uh, I thought that they said that, I thought Lanphier said that, um, only Mughidian could make a gray man. Like, but that means there has to be a black Aja member still in the tower or whatever. Like, but they said, oh,

[01:32:04] but Mughidian was the only one who made a gray man. And I, so I thought it was just weird. My, I assumed that why they said that, like the, it said that was Jachim, who we saw Mughidian make. Um,

[01:32:26] my understanding was the only reason she would send a gray man to kill those two black Aja is if they had knowledge of something that would reveal more black Aja in the tower. And I felt like that's how they went to that reasoning of, we know there has to still be one black Aja because why else would they go through the trouble of trying to kill these two? Well, I think I feel like Joya, I mean,

[01:32:55] was getting ready to reveal. Yeah. Like, whoever it was. Um, and, yeah, again, back to, oh, gray man just happened to enter at that particular moment. Of course she, of course he did. He wasn't waiting to see if she was going to say something. He was like, oh, and then stab the crap out of Joya and then stab the crap out of Elida. Joya is apparently just dead, but Elida, oh, healed. No big deal. Sorry. It's just the healing thing. She really bugs me. Yeah.

[01:33:25] So I just, I want to go back to something I said about, uh, being, as you said, heavy handed. Um, so she is talking to Alviaran Sadai of the white Aja. Um, and she says, you know, what if I could show you examples and proof of that Swan was, you know, plotting to do this, destroy the white tower from within, from the very beginning.

[01:33:52] I feel like that is a poor choice of method to address someone who bases their decisions on logic. Um, I feel like that sounds very emotion based. It sounds very suspicion and conspiracy theory based, which is not what a white Aja person would listen to. I think that if you were to say, you know, what if I could show you how she was incompetent?

[01:34:22] Well, logically it would say, Hey, we should have an Amaralyn seat who is competent and who can deal with people. And, and that's why I would support someone like that. And if you show me that she is not that way, then no, but like, Oh, you have to go there. Hey, she's been trying to destroy the tower. But it just seemed like it was the wrong tact to take. Yeah. Um, or wrong tack to take with someone who is supposedly making the decisions based on logic.

[01:34:53] Uh, we're shifting their support based on logic. Yeah. All right. That's all I have for a light in the white tower. I only had one last note and it's skipping back to that initial conversation in Swan's office. Nice. Did Swan know where Nynaeve and Elaine were going? Because to me, it felt like they just sort of like, Oh,

[01:35:19] we need to go chase down Leandrin and we're going to sort of sneak out in the middle of the night. Did they tell Swan what they were doing? That is an excellent question. And I don't know, uh, because it definitely seemed like they're like, Oh, Varen's in on this. So we need to get the hell out of here because this gray man, we're just going to get pack our crap and go as opposed to, okay, let's, uh, see if we can get an audience of Swan and we're going to do that. Now,

[01:35:48] maybe now she did very specifically like the words that she used were, uh, they are, she is out of the tower on a mission of my, of, of mine, which might be just her covering for the fact that she knows they left and she doesn't know where they are. Yeah. But, but, but I did give her a mission and I can only guess that she is off trying to achieve this, this mission or complete this mission for me. The thing is,

[01:36:17] is that if she really did tell more gays that Elaine is off on a mission, even if it was just vague, Gabriel, AKA, I forget his, Raven, Raven, his forsaken name, will also now know this information. He also is intimately aware of the actual battle that just went down at the white tower. It might give him a heads up that,

[01:36:47] Hey, they might be going to look for Leandrin. He's close with Mogidian. We know Mogidian is in, uh, Tanchiko. It just seems like that information could very easily get to Leandrin that, um, that they are coming there to hunt her down. I will counter that with,

[01:37:15] why would they send some accepted to go hunt for the black Aja when we're not going to send real sisters to do it? Like there's a, Hey, I'm going to send this trainee off to go do whatever it is. Like, who cares? Like, okay, fine. You know, you're going to go, we have to go teach her some, whatever mission it is. Maybe it's go learn how to, uh, be humble or learn,

[01:37:45] uh, humility or whatever. Like, Amberlynn didn't tell me what it was, but she did tell me that she was going, being sent out of town. She's as safe as she could possibly be. Now, all of those things are true. She's as safe as she could possibly be in that scenario. I did not send her off with the black sister. So like, I know that she's as safe as she could possibly be because those words mean nothing.

[01:38:15] Um, but we go back to the, the, you know, the talking your way around the truth. Yeah. Um, but, uh, yeah, so that, that's, that would be my address. But yes, that is a good point that Gabriel would also be informed that Elaine is off doing, uh, God knows what. Yeah. Anyways, just made me scared for them going into Tan Chico, which I guess brings us to our last point about the ship to Tan Chico. Yeah. Unless you had anything else. No,

[01:38:45] go ahead. Cool. So, they're on the ship. They've sworn to stay below deck. And right when we meet them, they're at 14 days in and they have had it. Nine Aves been puking the entire time. Matt is, has cabin fever. And Matt decides, no, we're not staying below deck anymore. And Elaine's like, no, that's the only way we were allowed passage on the ship is that I promised we would. They run above deck.

[01:39:14] Apparently it's not that big of a deal that they went above deck. So like, I don't know. 14 days in, that's when you make the decision. You can't take it any longer. Right. When you're almost there. Very interesting. Whatever. It was very, very cool when they did get above deck and got to see what was going on up there,

[01:39:36] which was the captains actually up there calling the wind into the sails and powering this boat along. Right. As a wind chasers. Is that what it is? Or wind finders? Yeah. So, so I will say, so the main character, the main sea folk woman who was speaking to Elaine and Nyev, she was the sail mistress. Okay. So she's like the captain.

[01:40:05] And then there is, and then the, the person handling, the woman handling all the flows was the wind finder. Nice. And she would, I mean, you could probably like you, something to the effect of like, not first mate, but like, Hey, I'm the resource person, right? Yeah. I'm the, I'm the person who, when we have the capability, change the winds so that it gives us favorable speed for extended periods of times.

[01:40:34] We're never becalmed because we can be, you know, we have, we can make our own or change the currents of the, of the, the, the ocean, or at least flow with the ocean. Yeah. Which was a really important thing. I think that was said to Nyev. That right there, that it's not about controlling the one power. The one power is like the ocean. You need to work with it. And I thought you saw this sort of light bulb go off over Nyev's head.

[01:41:04] Um, I thought that was hopefully something that's going to lead to a breakthrough for Nyev because man, she's so powerful. I want to see her get things a little more under her abilities. Yeah, absolutely. Like Nyev is a great character and, um, I like, we are halfway through season three. My understanding is that this is eight seasons. So we are, you know,

[01:41:32] almost 40% through the season or through the series. And, uh, you know, she can't touch the power, uh, unless she is high with emotion. So that's, uh, it's a big deal, especially for this like massive weapon or whatever. Right. Um, so yes, I think that,

[01:41:53] I think that we keep getting like hints and breadcrumbs and all of these things need to like all coalesce together. Um, the fact that Elaine, she was like one who wants to keep her feet firmly planted and one who bucks from the response or bucks from the path that, uh, the, there's being is going with the sea and, you know, one a seasick and was not. And so, oh, Hey,

[01:42:20] so Elaine doesn't want necessarily want the yoke of being the queen of Andor. She wants to be free. She wants to take her short, chart her own path, or at least go where the wind takes her. I mean, we saw her dream where she was literally being the wind finder. Like she wants to, and, and snuggling up to Avienda. Like she wants to live a choice of a life of her choosing, which is the very classic princess narrative. Right. Right. Yeah.

[01:42:50] yeah. Jasmine and life beyond these walls. Um, but, uh, yeah. So I will say, and I can appreciate it. Like two weeks, everybody, everybody, uh, who lived through COVID, right. Two weeks, two years in your house, in your room, especially with a moving, a moving room, uh, that I can see where that would be difficult. Constant vomiting, uh, sounds and smells. I can, I can, I get it. Um,

[01:43:19] constant lectures on, so from someone who you feel that they think they are better than you. Um, I think Matt's part of just Matt's kind of basic, like resting place though. Like he thinks that everybody who's a noble, is like, yeah, kind of crappy. Um, and, uh, I did one of the, so then they, you know, they, they do finally get up and about and they, you know, Matt sees men.

[01:43:48] And this is one of my favorite things is that, uh, men coming down the stairs goes blood and ashes, blood, blood and ashes was a curse word in the book. And that is the blood and bloody ashes was, uh, was something that, that was very common. And I was, it was awesome to hear it. Here's someone say it. Nice. So we see Matt follow men back to the cabin and find her drawing of him hanging,

[01:44:18] which was pretty terrible. Poor Matt. Yeah, that's not great. The trauma that poor Matt has had to go through in this entire show. Like no wonder he's so messed up. He's really been through a lot. Yeah. Um, so I, I will say that, um, I just going back to, I'm just, Matt was just kind of like a carrier. Um, uh, he was like, I was glad to see him and many get back together and they're like, Oh, Hey, your men. Oh,

[01:44:47] you were a servant in the tower. Oh, you were this bartender at Faldara. Uh, yes. And yes. And okay. We're cool. Uh, everybody, everybody good. Uh, I've been, you know, you're not coming with us. Uh, I've been to Chico. Do you, do you know anything about this place? No? Well, you're going to need somebody. So I think it all works out. Yeah. Um, it was, it was nice. Uh, I got kind of like tied up like, okay, everybody's cool with each other. And then they get to Chico and they're like, Oh, like,

[01:45:17] don't look anybody in the eye. Don't do this. Don't do that. Don't show you, don't flash your money. Don't do whatever. And Matt, seriously, don't look anybody in the eye. Like, don't do it. And, uh, then we shift back to, I think it was Egwene in the dreams, but. It reminded me a little bit of Tortuga in Pirates of the Caribbean. I just had to look up the name. I was like, what was the town where all the pirates were? But like, the, like,

[01:45:44] don't look up at anybody in the eye and people hanging from ropes by the, by the port. And just like a real rough town. It definitely reminded me of like the, the pirate, the pirate, uh, ports. Um, it's fun. Um, Like getting to continue to see the world build out and, um, see all these different locations and getting to immerse into a different little, like mini culture. Or as the show goes on, like this episode, we got a small town,

[01:46:13] two rivers. We got the IEL waste and a new location. And now we got, um, not only the, the seafaring folk, but also the first glimpse into the streets of Tanchico. So it's been pretty cool. I mean, yeah. I think that they, I think, as you said, I think they've done a really, really good job, uh, in kind of like showing all different walks of life and all the, all different locales and making each one very specific, um, and,

[01:46:43] and very definitive. And like, this is what they are. And this is the type of culture and the type of, of landscape that you're, that you're living on. Uh, that about wraps, wraps me up. Me too. Uh, the only line we didn't call out that I really loved was, um, when the sale mistress was talking to Nynaeve and saying all that. And then she said, there are many ways to be a woman. And I thought that was a pretty awesome line. I,

[01:47:12] I feel like I want to like put that up on my, on my wall behind my desk here. There are many ways to be a channeling or to be a channeler. There are many ways to be a woman. Yeah. There are many ways or many paths to walk in the dark. It all comes back to, Hey, you don't have to do what other people think or say you need to do. You just need to get to where you're going. And I like that idea. Um, all right. So if we don't have anything else,

[01:47:42] all right, uh, we're going to take a break. We'll come back to some feedback. Welcome back. Okay. So this, this is, we're back to the section where feedback section. So we're not going to do news this week. We got to, you know,

[01:48:12] we've gone for a long time tonight and, um, uh, we got quite a bit of feedback. Uh, I, and the, the, the people that I got feedback from, a lot of them are very significantly into the books and that is wonderful. I absolutely love it. But what I did do is I kind of called out some of the things that could potentially be spoilery, um, in, in the books. I don't want to, uh,

[01:48:38] clue in people that have not read the books as to what could potentially have happened. I'm not saying don't put it in there, but I'm just saying we're not going to read it, read, read it like that on the podcast. Um, and, uh, then, you know, also, I also kind of combined some comments from people and kind of, I've pared down some, but in general, these are as, at least for the most part there, or as they are, uh, posted on Facebook. Most of these are from Facebook. So, Veronica,

[01:49:08] you want to take that first one? Yeah. So from Daniel Broom, I liked it, but the green story seemed to skip around a bit. I assume they stay at the hold for a little while at least, but without a transition scene like the sea folk ship, we don't see time pass visually. So it seems like she goes from a complete novice to how well she is trained after an entire book within five minutes. Um, I agree. The dreamwalking, like that she did it once and then could like very efficiently flit through

[01:49:38] multiple people's dreams. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So he goes on to say, I'm convinced that Alana and Maxim didn't use the ways to get to the two rivers and rather that Alana is hiding that she knows how to travel, which is accurate to the books that I said, I often hide abilities from the tower and use them for personal advantage. But the show is pointing way too hard at Alana and Maxim hinting that they're dark friends. Yeah. At the end of episode two, after we forget about all of those red herrings,

[01:50:06] Loyal talking about dark friends and mysterious wound on her shoulder, Maxim being surprised about Trollocs, a man and a woman traveling the ways, her mysteriously vanishing from the tower, the ashes you can't miss on her face. We are then suddenly introduced to another man and woman near the end of that episode in Lord Luke and fail, who also match most of those foreshadowings, which is a good point. I mean, I think, that is a very good point. Yeah. You know,

[01:50:34] when we found out about the ashes on her face, I was like, Oh, okay. So maybe it really was them who went through the ways, but it really doesn't make sense that it would have been Maxim and Alana because they really shouldn't have been able to go through the ways like that. Right. Well, I mean, channeling is a way that you can do it. So like, I don't, I don't know how familiar Alana is with the ways. So is it possible she could have, um, way range the first, the ones who first showed us as viewers,

[01:51:05] how to do it. But that almost went really bad. Yes, it did. Um, but yeah, so I, I, I don't know. I am looking forward to, hopefully we have something revealed as to who, who those tracks were. Um, and like the smell of smoke, um, in, in that, that episode in episode two. Yeah. Uh, all right. From Kamal, Francois Nalik, uh, sorry about mispronouncing the name,

[01:51:33] but a very anticlimactic episode in which nothing happens. So disappointed that they wasted a whole episode on fuel dialogues. There are only episode eight episodes and so much happens up to book five. I am really annoyed. They should be concentrating on the action. Such a waste of time. You know what? Hey, I can appreciate that, uh, that viewpoint. Uh, I, I personally think that a lot of times that you kind of like need a dip in the action and a dip in the, the, the drama and,

[01:52:02] and like you need some setup. Uh, otherwise the, the, the impact of the action or the bigger scenes don't take as much of an effect, but I, I can absolutely appreciate where, uh, where this could, someone could view this as a, Oh, there's a whole lot of talkie talkie episode. Um, and I hope that you, uh, no, maybe, maybe you, you heard of what we were talking about and you enjoyed it more and maybe not, but that's okay. Awesome. Um,

[01:52:33] yeah, I, I don't disagree. Like the more I think about it, the more sort of conversation blips we got that I think we, we didn't necessarily need. Like, did we need land and another remember, like another reminder about Malkir? Like, was that important to this episode? You know, did, did we keep having to have these like fractioned pieces of the story? The story?

[01:53:02] Maybe not. It was a lot of exposition, but I still had fun watching it. So hopefully, hopefully things will pick back up the next episode and we'll get the whole fan base happy again. I'm going to use the cliche. I'm just happy to be here. I'm enjoying it. If I start hating it, uh, I'll be very upset. Yeah. All right. Um, moving on. We had a comment from John Harper brief, but man, I couldn't agree more. Alana as hard as nails,

[01:53:32] seeing her stand up with all those arrows in her keep standing up. Like, I'm so sorry. Like all I feel like I do is refer to other fantasy genres, but it really reminded me of, um, Bormir. Bormir. Yeah. Standing up with the arrows and defending Mary and Pippin. Um, it was just a really cool scene for her. Even if I was frustrated at some aspects of it, I could forgive, um,

[01:53:58] because she was just so bad-ass and the way she's doing her hair and still having the ashes down her face just adds to it. So the, the spectacle of it was, was pretty phenomenal. Even if I disagree with the logic of some of it. Yeah. Kimberly Serratos, uh, the Aja system is the permanent splintering of the age of legends. I said I unity. So to see the blue, Brown, green, red, and white goals and values on display, this episode was super cool.

[01:54:28] And it was especially nifty in juxtaposition to the Aiel and the sea folk. I agree. I think that I, one of the things that I really enjoyed about the books and I'm actually really enjoying about, even if, again, I think maybe it's a little bit clunky, the politicking of Elida in the tower is seeing her approach each different faction. And I think that's, I think that that is an aspect of it that is really, really well done, uh, in the story.

[01:54:55] And I love seeing it in action. I agree. It's, it's pretty cool. I literally, this episode went back to Google again, like remember what each Aja color represents. And just because this episode was making me think about the importance of that. Um, Tom Williams wrote, had a bit of a moment when egg, and let me just like pause a minute and tell you, I, I had to read this three times and I was like, egg, like, is this,

[01:55:25] is this a house of the dragon? Like egg, who was egg? And I was like, Oh, you dummy Veronica, a queen. Okay. So had a bit of a moment when egg was back in two rivers and hopper was alive and parents dream. I'm not crying. You're crying gift. Like, yeah, I agree. I, I, I, my notes had like hopper in all caps and was very sad. It was, it was, it was good to see him. Um, even if just in a fantasy, uh,

[01:55:54] from Justin Burns, Grumont, uh, from memory, it took Eggy, Egwene forever to master dreamwalking. But in the show, it was a simple, believe it's true and it will be. And she's mastered in like 30 seconds. LOL. I could not agree more. I agree. Jim Burge says, and this is what you referenced earlier. Did wheel of time directors use the hobbit village in the desert from the ring of power series for the IEL village in the waste looks identical to me. Just add, uh,

[01:56:23] the tree of life up to the top. And I think you've got it. Oh yeah. That's a good point. That's good. Yeah. But notably there was just a largest tree of life, like in last episode. So they just moved it over a bit. Uh, from Todd Miller. Uh, I feel we're about due for a filler episode and that's what we got. Kind of, kind of sucks to the last, but last episode was amazing. It was, there was a great scene between land and Moraine. Uh, I always thought adapting the dreams world stuff would be hard to do in TV show.

[01:56:53] I, I do. I agree with you, Todd. Uh, I, I think that they're doing a decent job. I, I liked, I'm waiting to see more. I'm looking forward to seeing more because there were some amazing things in the book and I'm, I'm curious to see how they're going to do that. Uh, uh, the windfinder stuff was cringe.

[01:57:23] If you know, you know, I do not know. I don't know, but I'm going to go Google that. I'm going to go Google it. I'm going to go Google it. Uh, I thought the rescue scene with the coffin girls could have been better. I guess shows have a budget and can't make everything cool. I, I tend to agree with you. I kind of mentioned that with like a bunch of the cuts and stuff. Um, I, again, I, I'm not necessarily sure what precisely I would have been like, that was amazing. But, you know, so far the wise ones seem too nice.

[01:57:52] There are some hard ass women in the books. I agree. Uh, and they, I feel like I'm hoping that we will get some of those hard edges, uh, coming soon. I feel like bear is the soft one. Um, and it almost doesn't fit when the majority of the other women we've seen from the IEL people have been hard. Like Avienda, I'm constantly complaining about how like harsh she is to Rand. Um,

[01:58:21] and I feel like, uh, Malayne's pretty shitty. Yeah. Like she's pretty terse and just in general has been that way to people. So I feel like it's just bear who is in, in most interactions, like even when she's hard, like when she was telling Avienda, like suck it up and go, um, into Ruinian, you, this is your calling. She then like step back and like teared up a little bit and was like, I remember I did the same thing when you did it. So like, I like her,

[01:58:51] but it doesn't necessarily fit how soft she is with kind of what we've seen of their culture. I'm just going to go back to different people are different people. And, uh, there, there are many ways to be a wise one. Okay, cool. All right. Um, Jim Douse wrote, I could have done without the whole Alana versus white cloaks bit. Her spat with Maxim is getting as annoying as Moraine and land last season. Otherwise lots to love this episode.

[01:59:21] Hopper jumping at sparks set me off. I think it's funny. Like how so many of us can like love certain scenes and other people hate them, but we all, you know, found things we enjoyed in the episode. So fair. I mean, I feel like despite saying how much I liked that scene, we did pick it apart a lot. Um, so I can definitely understand being annoyed at it. And after we had to go through the whole bond, um, blocking with land and Moraine last season,

[01:59:51] like I do not want another long drawn out bond on bond off between a order and I said, I, so hopefully this is them going to come together after this. So we'll see. Wrapping it up. Yeah. And, uh, Brooke Bettencourt. Can we talk about how spectacular the sea folk channeling was? So beautiful. And then for Elaine to be doing it in a dream, just blissful and happy. That I will say that the, I thought the visual effects here were phenomenal. Uh, and the,

[02:00:21] the thing made me think of like Moana and, but it was obviously in, you know, uh, I thought it was, I thought it was really, really well done. And I think I've talked about the special effects before. And, uh, I, I think they're continuing on with that phenomenal effects. So, and I've like sometimes been critical of, of the effects, like just in general, I'm not usually a fan of like, um, CGI, even really well done CGI.

[02:00:49] And so it is something I've struggled with on this show, but even for me who could be kind of like, eh, about it, I thought the channeling, um, with the sea folk was just, fantastical and beautiful. And I didn't feel critical of it at all. I just tried to lean in and enjoy it. Nice. And we did get, uh, a voicemail from our friend Renee. Hey Renee. Um,

[02:01:17] and I'll go ahead and play what she's got to say now. Hey, Veronica and Greg, Greg, I just want you to know that I love your voice. I was like, whoa, he has a very white voice. You really can play the ogre. Is his name? Laurel. Or I, I, I listen again, forgive me. These names got me all confused. All I can say is the ogre. He has a deep voice, just like you. So when I listened to you, my mind just went directly to him.

[02:01:47] I was like, wow, I did not know his voice was going to be like this, but let me get to my points. Veronica. I like Moraine's hat too. Although I don't like Moraine. Moraine is too stiff. And I know that they said that she used to be fun 20 years ago or whatever. She is so freaking stiff to me. And I just don't trust her. And land. He is so sexy. He looks like a grown man version of Glenn from the walking dead. I think he is. Glenn's a grown ass man.

[02:02:16] I'm trying to figure out where's his story going? Because they were saying that he was the king of wherever he was from. But I'm going to get the books and I'm going to have to read the books so I can really understand. Because I, this show has me so confused and I appreciate you guys because you guys really break it down. And when Ran morphed into his father, he reminded me of Jason Samore in C, one of the most underrated fantasy TV series out there. It was so good.

[02:02:45] I'm not sure if you guys ever saw it, but it was canceled. And I love that show. I love Jason Samore period. I love him in Game of Thrones as Carl Drago. And that's what the I.E.L.s, they remind me of the Daraquians. And I am looking forward to, you know, knowing more about their story. And the grandpa, the grandpa of, of Ran, Ran, his,

[02:03:14] the grandpa and the mother, when they're, I forgot what y'all said that they were called. Um, they don't fight people or they don't fight back or whatever. But I was really upset with the grandpa and the mother because they just disowned the young man like that. And after the mother saw how her daughter and a friend was battered and bruised up like that, it's like, what did y'all expect for them to do? So, I, I, I mean, I don't understand that part. And Ran, he is a really great actor.

[02:03:44] And thank you all for pointing out to me that he played all of his kinfolks. Cause I definitely did not realize that. I mean, he nailed every last one of them. He went from being innocent to gangster, to innocent, to gangster. And I love that. Now, episode five, the red ice-a-dye, who sounds like she smokes a pack of cigarettes twice a day. She is an uppity heifer. Cause it's like, girl, how dare you talk to Sawan, the ambulance seat? Like, how do you, how dare you talk to her like that? I don't trust anyone. Like,

[02:04:12] I really do not trust anyone. I'm giving everybody to say that. I'm looking at everyone out of my peripheral. Cause I don't even know what the hell is going on, but I definitely cannot wait until I listen to you guys. And Alana, I guess the reason why she's there, cause she says she wants to build an army. That's why she's with, um, Perrin, the one who, with the pretty ass, who looks like my little brother. She's there cause she wants to build an army. Cause she believed the village people are warriors.

[02:04:39] And from the way that little girl through that magic at the white cloaks, she may be correct, but I cannot wait to listen to what you guys have to say. I will talk to you later. Peace and love. Peace and love, Renee. Well, thank you, Renee. I really appreciate the compliments. Feel free to continue listening. I watched Greg's head. Like, I don't think his headphones fit anymore. Cause his head is so large. Those, those are,

[02:05:09] uh, really good points. Uh, Renee, uh, the, there were a couple of, of, yes, I agree. Like, I think that, um, Jason Straski or sorry, Joshua, uh, Straski, uh, Straski did a phenomenal job, but yeah. So Jason Momoa, uh, is what they just confused me. Cause I was trying to figure out who you're talking about. Yeah. So seed, I've heard great things about that, that TV series. Um, but I will, I will have to go check that out.

[02:05:36] I do need to drop in a quick clarification. I do not like Moraine's hat. I hate it, but I am glad to hear that someone else is enjoying it. I still love you, Renee. I like Savannah's intensely woven basket hat. Moraine, I would like to rip that off her head and stomp it and say, get a little head covering like all the other women out here instead of this silly hat.

[02:06:05] But I don't know. I guess that's the style where she grew up, but hated it. But I'm glad that you enjoyed it, Renee. Yeah. Um, but, uh, yeah. Thank you so much, Renee. Thank you for everybody for, for leaving feedback. Um, uh, we're hoping to, hopefully this provided either some help or just some enjoyment, maybe enjoy something, point out some things you didn't notice, or maybe you did. And you were like, uh, yeah, that sucked too.

[02:06:34] Realize that you're not alone and thinking that how stupid, some of their logic is sometimes. Anyway, uh, for the moment though, uh, that's our show. Thanks for listening, everybody. Uh, if you'd like to write in or record a message like Renee did, uh, you can email it to talk at podcast.com. Um, and you should definitely go and check out our Facebook page at facebook.com slash podcastica, um, where you can engage in exciting conversation about wheel of time or many of the other pop

[02:07:04] culture TV that podcast. Yeah. We, uh, we've, we've got yellow jackets going on the walking dead. Oh, it's so good. Doing a rewatch, uh, the white Lotus, uh, doing a Buffy rewatch. Like there's so much stuff going on right now. Um, and then maybe even shows that you would love to talk about or hear talked about, uh, that have already been covered. Um, it's, it's, it's all a great community over there. Um, uh, and I, thanks to everybody for responding for, to the,

[02:07:36] that's where I would say a majority of our, our comments came from. And, uh, I'd love hearing your guys' opinion, even if we have slightly different ones. Uh, next time on this podcast, wheel of time, season three, episode six, the shadow in the night. Um, I'm not sure what this is going to cover, uh, because I really try to avoid spoilers and I don't watch any of the next on wheel of time because I want to be surprised on Thursday mornings. Um, but, uh, I, I cannot wait.

[02:08:07] Same. I'm, uh, really excited to see where the rest of the season takes us. But I guess for today, that is our show. Let the dragon run again on the winds of time. And there are many ways to be a woman. Fuck yeah. Yeah. Yeah.