704: "Not Tomorrow Yet" (TWD S6E12 Rewatch)

[00:00:00] Zootopia 2 has come home to Disney+. Let's go! Get ready for a new case. We're gonna crack this case and prove we're the greatest partners of all time! New friends. You are... Gary The Snake. And your last name? The Snake. Dream Team. New habitats. Zootopia has a secret reptile population. You can watch the record-breaking phenomenon at home. You're clearly working it. Zootopia 2, now available on Disney Plus Rated PG.

[00:00:31] People are full of surprises, especially when you travel together. Thankfully, Vrbo is not. When you book a Vrbo, you get VrboCare and 24-7 live support. So your house doesn't surprise you like your friends might. If something's not as described or doesn't work, Vrbo's there. Real people. Real support. Anytime. Book today on the Vrbo app. If you know, you Vrbo. Terms apply. See Vrbo.com slash trust for details. Hmm? Ah!

[00:01:02] Hmm. It's the drone. You sure we can do it? We can beat them. What this group has done, what we've learned, what we've become. All of us, yes. I'm sure. Then all we have to do is just tell them that. Well, they don't compromise. It's in the compromise. It's a choice you give them. It's a way out. For them and for us.

[00:01:31] We try and talk to the saviors. We give up our advantage, our safety. No, we have to come for them before they come for us. We can't leave them alive.

[00:02:14] Hey Zed Heads, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Lucy. And this is The Walking Dead 'Cast episode 704. And this episode we're covering The Walking Dead season 6 episode 12, not tomorrow yet. What? No. It's such a bummer of an episode. Oh my God. I didn't know. I guess I was in denial. I'm like, no, that won't happen for a while.

[00:02:41] I didn't realize even until I was halfway through the episode. Oh shit. This is the one where this happens. Fuck. Like, in my head, this whole scenario was much better thought out over a longer period of time. It was not like, yo, Jesus is here. We've decided we're going to kill a bunch of people. Everyone get in the RV. Right. Does anyone want to go against the will of the people? Raise your hand if you want us to starve. Raise your hand. Oh, so you want women and children to die?

[00:03:10] Okay, Morgan. Yeah, we've noted that. Yeah, okay. That's fine. Okay, anyone else? I'm not sure if you are. Anyone else? Tobin? No? Anyone? No? Great. All right, then. Down to business. Okay, would you like to read the plot summary? No, but yes, I will. Rick campaigns for a preemptive attack to kill the saviors, leaving Carol haunted by the lives she has taken. Using a ruse to kill the guards at the compound, they secure the hilltop hostage Craig, or Craig,

[00:03:39] and proceed to methodically murder several saviors before an alarm is triggered. Jesus and Tara send Andy back to the hilltop with Craig to honour their deal, while Carol prevents Maggie from joining the fight. The next morning, Tara and Heath depart on a supply run. A lone surviving saviour named Primo, I didn't know that, tries to escape while Daryl beats him. Oh, sorry. Sorry. A saviour named Primo tries to escape while Daryl beats him.

[00:04:07] A woman's voice comes over a walkie-talkie, claiming that they have Maggie and Carol. Yeah, I mean, we're going to talk a lot about Carol, but hearing you read that made me think of her going, oh wow, I didn't even have to tell, like, whisper in Rick's ear that he needs to kill everyone. He's just doing it without me. I've trained him. Shit. Is that the right thing to do? What am I going to do? This is sad. Oh, well, I guess I'll fuck Tobin. I'm not going to. I'm not going to. I'm not going to.

[00:04:37] Keep my mind off of it. Yeah, yeah. All right. What was it like to rewatch this one? Oh man, it's a hard episode to watch. Yeah. I think it's because it's hard on two levels. One, it's just a grim bit of the story that is not easy to enjoy with a light heart. And two, I think for me, this was like the episode where like shit got real and like we're on the Negan track now and we're not coming off. Yeah.

[00:05:07] There's a tonal shift that sort of continues on. Yeah. And there's this ominous like the scene of Glenn looking at all those Polaroids just like, oh, it sticks in my throat. I'm just like, oh, this is hard. This is really hard. Yeah. We presume those are Negan's victims, right? Lucille's victims. Yeah. Because we see when they're driving away in season seven, episode one, Rick looks in the rear view and I think he sees someone take a Polaroid of Glenn's body or something.

[00:05:37] Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Anyone else who sticks up for Negan, we should take a still frame of that and say, well, you have to post this in your cubicle at work then. I've decided though, like, I feel like we've, we know where we are on Negan, but I'm really enjoying, I find the saviors incredibly funny. Like they're, they're all written like such comic book bad guys at this point. Yeah. They're all like, eh, needle dick. And just like, you're one of these people, they're the worst.

[00:06:05] And moving the mouth of the decapitated head. Rrr, rrr, rrr, rrr. I know. I'm like, give these guys their own show, they're great. And it's, I mean, it kind of pisses me off a little bit because at watching The Walking Dead, I try to argue for compassion and they don't make it easy sometimes. It's very hard to be compassionate for these ding-dongs. Yeah. It is. I'm like, all right, just kill him. Kill this guy. I kind of agree with you.

[00:06:32] Cause I felt like for me, one of the strong scenes in this episode that I'll talk about, I guess, is that, that silent scene with Glenn and Heath killing the saviors. And, you know, Glenn doesn't let Heath do it. Like Glenn takes that for him. And it's like this real, like, oh my God, soul shattering performance from Steven Yeun. But then after they've done it, you see the pictures on the wall that emphasize that these people are horrific ding-dongs. Yes.

[00:07:28] Yeah. And they say, no, they're monsters. Yeah. These guys are monsters. So then you have to ask, okay, let's say that's true. I still don't accept that. Alden is a good counterexample later. So I feel like any one of these guys could be Alden going, you know, can we take those photos down? Cause yeah. Look, I don't want to say walk, but. Exactly. But even if there are no Aldens, then I think that is sort of the question we have to ask. And it makes it a harder question. And I think the walking dead writers love that, but what if they're all just douchebags?

[00:07:58] Then is this the right thing to do? And, um, well, we'll talk about it. But genocide of douchebags. Was it a service to humanity? Next question. Good title for your next book. Yeah. Genocide of douchebags. The thing is, Peter's like, Peter will be saying they're like, should have killed Alden as well. That guy's a douchebag. Like I forgot who he hates Alden. I forgot Peter hates Alden. Yeah. He's like, oh, that guy. I'm like, yeah, he's worse than the other ones. One of the funniest things ever in this whole podcast. It's just like, he fucking hates Alden.

[00:08:27] He's like, oh, of course he would say that. And I'm like, what's your thing? Who hurt you? Uh, so, uh, I, it's on my, on some level, it's my least favorite episode. It's not a bad episode though. It's just so, uh, so much deflating. The, like the feeling that Glenn has right after he kills the guy. That's how I feel. Uh huh.

[00:08:53] And Steven Yeun just plays it like, so, I mean, maybe that's him realizing that he's leaving the show. I don't know. He's like, oh God, my soul is, God, nevermind. I can't do this anymore. Can you kill me off? I can't do this anymore. Um, yeah, it's just, I don't know. I think there's, it's not, is it a week episode? I don't know if it's a week episode. It's just, it's not one that I like a lot. Yeah. I have to say, but it was, it was good to go back and watch.

[00:09:19] And there were things that I picked up on that, um, you know, I enjoyed more. Um, but it, it did feel, I felt a bit of a sink in my stomach when I was like, oh no, I know what's about to happen. Oh God. Yeah. Well, that whole thing I always try to do where, okay, look at things narratively and then more on a personal level. On a personal level, it's just disturbing and a bummer and a downer. Uh, narratively, I'm sort of on the fence about whether I think this is a good storyline.

[00:09:45] I, uh, cause, um, I just don't, I don't like that Rick did this, you know? And, and it's okay not to like things that characters do, but he's supposed to be the hero and it just seems, uh, I know. And, and it is something that I think fans debate about and, um, some are on his side. So it's not just categorically like everyone going, what the fuck, man? You know, it's not like he went off and well, I don't even want to say, but did something more disturbing, you know?

[00:10:14] But, um, still it's just so dark. There's something about killing people in their sleep as well. That I just find really, on the one hand, lovely, lovely for the person dying, I guess, cause you just go to sleep and you don't wake up, but it's so like, there's a whole plot point in Macbeth, um, about, you know, he kills someone in their sleep and then he can never sleep again. And it's a very, um, brutal, inhumane thing to do in a lot of ways because it's, it's

[00:10:44] like a very innocent, vulnerable moment and you're, you're killing someone during it. And I'd actually forgotten that the plan goes to shit, which now that I'm saying it sounds hilarious cause it's a Rick plan. Of course it's going to go to shit at some point. But did it though? I mean, they pretty much took care of everyone at the compound, which is what they planned on doing. If they hadn't sounded the alarm, Maggie and Carol probably wouldn't have been taken. Yeah. And Primo, no, that was his name, wouldn't have escaped at the end, I don't suppose.

[00:11:12] But they, but they assume that this is the whole group. So that was the biggest mistake. I wonder which one was Negan. Newsflash! Yeah. None of them. I think that was why she said that because then it was like, oh wait, there's more of them somewhere else watching us. So I feel like the plan would have been fine except for the fact that they didn't realize that this wasn't the whole group. They went on such incomplete information. Yeah.

[00:11:41] I mean, aside from that really good map that the guy drew, they really didn't know much. I'm obsessed with that map. Peter was like, why are you laughing so much? And I'm like, it's just the, it's fucking shit. It's just like a rectangle with two circles on it. Yeah. And he's like, this is what it looks like. I'm like, oh, you couldn't have verbally described that. No, you had to draw it. Okay. And then he's like, and there's a corridor. I don't know what's there. There might be doors. It might be the armory, but it might not.

[00:12:06] But, um, I mean, I think I'm not going to say it's the best map to be fair. They were just trying to say where the rooms were, you know, and yeah, that the problem with the map is they don't know anything. There's nothing to put on the map and that sort of shows the biggest, well, there's two big problems. Actually. Do you mind if I go into my first point? I think we're, I think we're there. Yeah. Go for it. It's Rick's plan and whether it's a good plan. So first he gathers everyone at the church and tells them they're going to have to fight to eat.

[00:12:36] So that's, I mean, it turns out that food truck from a couple of weeks ago, wasn't small stakes, even though it was in a silly episode, the stakes are they could starve if they don't have this deal for food, at least until their crops come in and that the saviors could come and find them and terrorize them at some point. Like they have other people. And, um, Rick says, you know, the saviors would have eventually found us and killed some of us. And then they try to own us. That does end up being exactly what happens.

[00:13:06] It's funny though. Cause doesn't it make you think a little bit of the trolley problem where like, if you saw two realities and one of them is like, we don't kill them and they come to Alexandria and they kill frigging Tobin versus we go after them and they kill Glenn. Like what decision do you make? Like it's yeah. Carol's like clearly the Glenn is okay to go. I just don't find him attractive. Okay. But, uh, yeah, I mean, it's not easy. Like the situation sucks that they're in.

[00:13:33] Um, and then he says, you know, this has to be a group decision. And I'm like, is that true? But he did take a vote, you know? So I guess, um, that was a point in his favor, favor. Yeah. Um, I ran favor with savior, favor, um, then, uh, he's, uh, let's see. Morgan's the only one that argues against saying, Hey, look, if we're going to fight no

[00:14:01] matter what, we should just tell them that and give them the choice to leave us alone. But Rick wants the element of surprise. And I, I just wonder what I feel like talking to them first would have probably ended up with the same result. The savior's trying to dominate them until war broke out. But like you just said, maybe Glenn would be alive and Tobin wouldn't, you know, it just, that would be the difference who died. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[00:14:29] Then Rick says, uh, we have to come for them before they come for us. And that just brings up the phrase preemptive strike in my mind and how much I've hated it when our government has used that term term. And I think most times preemptive strikes just puts the attacker in more danger than we ever would have been in. It just foments hatred.

[00:14:54] I mean, unless you can, I mean, Rick is really advocating for genocide here. So genocide, yeah. And he doesn't know they're ding dong. He doesn't know. And, and, and to like, if, so if you're going to do this plan, it means kill every single last one of them or else you're just creating these conditions for cycles of violence.

[00:15:18] No, it's awful. It's, it's, I'm, I'm with you on that. I think this whole thing, it just stinks. Like, I think there's so much that stinks. It's just such blanket assumptions about how easy something, I mean, it's, it's, Peter and I were talking about this the other day and he's like, I always viewed it as hubris for the group.

[00:15:35] Like what they do here leads directly to the lineup because it's hubris. It's, it's, this is what you get for doing such a fucking stupid thing. And I'm like, I don't know if that's the dictionary definition of hubris. Listeners don't write in. Um, but yeah, it kind of is. I mean, you got cocky. That's what hubris is. It's being overconfident. Yeah.

[00:15:53] And I mean, what led them to this? I'm like, what did you learn that caused you to come up with this plan? Well, they have killed a lot of their enemies, not all of them, but a lot. Shane, uh, the governor and all his men, but they did take in the Woodbarians. I think there was some more clear, they knew more. They knew these guys don't know what's going on. They're innocent. So we'll take them in.

[00:16:12] I suppose. Yeah. No, I was going to say, well, you're, you're about to get there chronologically, but I suppose in some ways, if you've lived through terminus, you think you've lived through the worst thing you could ever see. Like how bad could other people be? But I'm just trying to think how have they handled people? They, they did kill the claimers and, and that was, you know, justified, justified. They were attacking them and planning to do bad things to them. And yeah, self-defense. I mean, I'm not saying it always only has to mean self-defense.

[00:16:41] I don't know, but in this case it was, and it was, I felt like, yeah, that they deserve that. You did the right thing. Even with the termites, same thing. Pretty much. Joel Klamer turned up in the pit season two. Yeah, he was good. Yeah. Yeah, no, I was like, oh, he's turned his life around. What's his name? Um, Jeff Kober. He was interesting at Walker Stalker. He was one of those, uh, actors who, so, who sometimes I felt intimidated by like,

[00:17:12] actually he was very unique. Sometimes I felt intimidated by him. And then other times he just seemed very like, almost like a wise, caring man. I mean, he has like a whole meditation school or something like that. Oh, that does not surprise me actually. That really tracks. I'm like, oh yeah, no, that. So interesting guy. Yeah.

[00:17:29] Anyways, um, the, the, the Novatos I thought about, like they came to a standoff with them. Right. And then one of the old people walked in and Rick realized the situation and, and calmed down and figured it out. And so there was a situation that could have gone bad with modern Rick. Uh, I mean, he might've shot the grandma. No, I'm just kidding. I don't think he would've done that. Rick in this episode would feel you've shot the grandma.

[00:17:55] That's what I'm saying. I wonder. No, I don't think so. But, um, then Don, I thought about Don's people. So, uh, they're in the hospital and they're at odds. They're like facing off the two groups. And then Don gets shot accidentally. And then they quickly calm the situation down and realize that now that the leader's dead, it changes the whole situation. We can walk away from each other here. What if there's a situation like, what if there's a solution like that here? In fact, I think it would be if they could manage to kill Negan.

[00:18:25] I know. I was going to say, I wonder if you could cut the snake, the head off the snake. Because that's what ends up happening at the end. I mean, there's a huge war that maybe could have been avoided, but they kill Negan and then they take in the saviors that are left over. And it doesn't go perfectly, but some of them are members of their group from then on. Yeah, that's true. Um, neck tattoos. His name is I remember. But yeah, she's there. Alden.

[00:18:47] A few more points on this. Rick saying, Morgan, they always come back and Morgan goes, they come back when they're dead too. Rick says, yeah, we've stopped them before. Morgan says, I'm not talking about the walkers. I think he's talking about being psychologically haunted by people he's killed or something like that.

[00:19:02] Um, and then I also think it's not only morally, I don't like this plan, but also it's just stupid to do something like this before you have much information. They just know. I mean, they know that the saviors have been doing bad things that yeah, I think deserve some kind of serious response, but they don't know how many of them there are.

[00:19:29] So, and that, I mean, anyone who's watched the show knows, yeah, they fucked up there. And, uh, that's why I really liked the ending of this episode. Whoops.

[00:19:38] Yeah. Yeah. One of the good things I suppose about the saviors as a villain is this idea at this point is they are like a three headed beast. Like you cut one head off and something else emerges. And I think the way they've sown discord and made themselves. I mean, it would be a very interesting other reveal if the saviors actually turned out to be just 10 people, but they were able to make it seem like there was loads of them.

[00:20:01] So in some ways it's funnier or more interesting that there are actually hundreds of them and they are actually this huge community that we've just not known about. But I did quite like that in the run up to the reveal of Negan himself. I actually thought it was quite strong to have this sense of like, it's popping up everywhere. We don't know how many there are. We don't know who the leader is. We don't even know who Negan is like that sense of doom. And like you see at the end of this episode where they pivot to like, we've got Maggie and Carol. Yeah.

[00:20:30] Haha. I actually, I don't know, maybe it's like with Negan, it's like when you reveal the monster in a film, it's less scary or it's more annoying or something. But I actually, this moment, these moments of confusion, I think are really valuable sort of learning points from our group in which they learn very little. They're good narratively. It's exciting to not know why they keep bringing up Negan, who the hell is he? And how big is this group?

[00:20:58] I mean, it would be another funny reel if there was no Negan. Yeah. Because Negan's just. Right. Because they keep saying, I am Negan. But it's not really a three-headed dog because the head is Negan. Yeah. And I feel like if that head got chopped off, then they would be directionless. But you're right. They're a cult. So they all act the same way as their leader right now. Yeah.

[00:21:23] That's why. But I mean, when I started at this point, I was saying the two reasons why this plan sucks is I think it's just morally fucked up. But also, it's not smart. No, it's not smart at all.

[00:21:36] It's just like they need more information before they go right to genocide. They don't know how many people there are. They don't. And that's the main reason why it's dumb. And the reason why it's morally messed up is because there could be some people in there who aren't that bad. And even if they are all bad, I mean, I don't know, just going and killing a whole group of people. I don't know.

[00:22:00] It's wild. You know, I got confused because I fully thought Martinez turned up in this episode. But then I remembered there's another attack on a similar compound and there's children there. That's where Gracie is. Yeah, Martinez. What's the guy's name? Martinez, sorry. Morales. Morales, yeah. Yeah, Morales. Yeah, there's kids there. That's how Aaron ends up with Gracie. Like, what would they have done if they turned up at this admittedly very evil looking satellite station?

[00:22:27] But like, there were babies or families. Like, what would they have done? Right. They should have been looking around in there going, I wonder if there's anything about it that could signify whether it's just an outpost or a basin. This is the whole group, you know? Or take out the guards, seize the armory and lock it down and be like, we've got all these people hostage. Like, there's so many other ways that aren't the zero sum of these people must die.

[00:22:55] And Morgan's one is way too optimistic. He's like, well, we'll just tell them. Like, no, that's that. And Rick is right, I think, to kind of shoot that one down. But what they end up with is the opposite extreme of dumb of like, well, we're just going to murder everyone. I mean, that's the same thinking of let's nuke a whole country, really. It's just a scale. That's the only difference. But it's like, OK, we don't like these people. So let's just kill them all without knowing anything about them.

[00:23:21] That's I mean, we know they know some things that I mean, they know some really bad things, but they don't know enough. I was wondering if Rick ever expressed any misgivings or remorse for doing this later on. And I don't think he did. But I think he kind of does in his actions, like by jailing Negan instead of killing him, by bringing saviors into his group after the war.

[00:23:43] I think that shows he realizes that it's better to try to put an end to cycles of violence than risk perpetuating them because preemptive strikes lead to either genocide, which is what Rick is going for here, or an unending back and forth of violence, which is no good. And I'm not saying that this is necessarily true, but part of me feels like the bad vibes we've got coming over the next couple of seasons are karma for what we saw in this episode.

[00:24:09] Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, it's it's interesting. All of the things I dislike strongly about Negan, which are many and plentiful, you can listen to the entire back catalogue of this and you will find that out. His attitude to killing of just killing one person is horrific, but it has a subduing effect with minimal loss of life.

[00:24:36] And that's what he's going for. And then when he finds out that Simon's been going in and just massacring whole groups, he's pissed off by that. He's like, that's that's dumb. Yeah, he's the best. I take it all back, Negan, you're great. But it is an interesting, absolute counterpoint to this blanket. Like, we're just going to kill everyone. And it's effective. Like, it's fucking horrifying.

[00:24:57] Like, you know, the fact that he killed that 16 year old kid at Hilltop is so much more traumatizing in a way than if he'd come in and just emptied out the whole sort of city city town. But it was only a matter of time before Negan's behavior was going to come back and bite him in the ass, though. Oh, 100 percent. He deserves what's coming to him. Yeah, yeah. But it's interesting that he exerts control with a very different attitude towards the taking of life. Yeah.

[00:25:24] I find that it's an interesting aspect of humanity that, you know, we're also scared of being that person that many of us would subject ourselves to being treated by Negan the way that he treats people. Yeah. And Negan, in one part of his mind, he's like, look, I know that my ways can be a little hard for people to take, but this is what it takes to save the world. That's why we're called the saviors. And I'm doing good things here.

[00:25:50] And I think there is a part of him that actually believes more people are going to survive because of me. And so I deserve, you know, to have 10 wives. Yeah. But, you know, Andy, the saviour, the terrible cartographer, does kind of make a point when Rick is like punching the shit out of that head. Like, this is a weird thing about this episode. There were really funny moments in it. And that's one of them where Jesus and Andy are just looking at Rick like, what the fuck? I love that. And Andy's just like, yeah, saviours are fucking crazy, but, you know.

[00:26:20] And then he says this line again. He goes, what? What? And Andy's like, you're fucking crazy. I love that. It's so funny. And Rick's like, whatever. So good. So good. So good. Everything you want for summer is at Nordstrom Rack Stores now and up to 60% off. Stock up and save on the brands you love like Vince, Sam Edelman, Frame and Free People.

[00:26:47] Join the Nordic Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking. Maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin. Saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing.

[00:27:16] It's built to help you find and own a home. With agents who close twice as many deals. When you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started at Redfin.com. Own the dream. Study. And play. Come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get. The best of both worlds. Get the Unreal College Deal. Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs.

[00:27:44] Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium. And a year of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last. Ends June 30th. Terms at aka.ms slash college pc. Alright, what else? I guess I'll talk about some of those tonal things. There were moments in this episode that really made me laugh. And I don't know that... I hope they were supposed to. That was supposed to be funny. Yeah.

[00:28:11] I thought I found a lot of Carol stuff quite funny. With the cheesy intro music. And her telling Tobin to put it in his mouth. And things like that. That's quite funny. Me. Abraham's classic line. Why are dingleberries brown? But we will come back to Abraham because he's on my shit list. I found it quite funny how poorly they're hiding Alana Masterson's very advanced pregnancy in this show. Oh, I didn't even see that. This episode. Because this is like her last one before Matt leave. That's why she's going away with Heath.

[00:28:41] The scene with her and Denise in the kitchen where it's just like a dinner plate over her stomach. I'm like, oh, okay. That's one way of doing it. That made me laugh inadvertently. Rick laughs when Gabriel says that his uniform... His uniform? His costume? I never know what to say. Yeah. His vestiments or something? I don't know. His vestiments will make it harder for the saviors to see him in the dark. I think other things. I genuinely find the ding-dong saviour guards really funny.

[00:29:11] It was like something out of a Shakespeare, like having two idiot guards who are clearly going to get everyone into a whole heap of trouble. We kind of covered that. Took care of them pretty quickly, though. Oh, yeah. Sidebar. One of the saviors, I think, whistles happy birthday. Does that not cost lots of money? Is it not quite expensive to have happy birthday in an episode? Not anymore. No, okay. The copyright or whatever is expired. I wonder if that was just after it expired. Happy birthday to anyone whose birthday it is today. Oh!

[00:29:40] It was your birthday recently, though. It was. Happy birthday to me. Jenny took me out to a really fancy restaurant. Ooh. Did anyone bring you the head of an enemy? If they did, I didn't realize what I was eating, but there were things that I didn't know what it was. You punched it in the nose. None were head-chafed. Yeah. You wouldn't recognize it. I, yeah, I find all of those things quite entertaining. And I also enjoyed the musical cues.

[00:30:09] So these are kind of the little bits of decoration that I genuinely enjoyed in the episode is my overall point. The song at the start is called Weeds or Wildflowers by Parsonsfield. And I thought it was quite funny to have a song with emblems of Wildflowers and Stagnation, given that it's Carol that we're focusing on. I know, right. The final song is Arsonist Lullaby by Hosier. I love Hosier.

[00:30:36] I feel like they've used him once or twice in The Walking Dead at this point, and they definitely used him in some promos. And it's a good fit. I think it fits well with this sort of era of the show. Yes, it's got that Americana kind of growly, grounded feel. Absolutely. So those are the things that I, like, genuinely really liked about this episode. My next points will probably be less favorable, but those... Oh, and I don't want the bag, Needle Dick really made me laugh. I think Needle Dick is just a really funny insult.

[00:31:06] And Andy, just the worst, like so bad at lying. But those guys are so stupid that he gets away with it. So like, fine. Yeah. It was three stupid people. I punch him in the nose. Against each other. I punch one by a handle fucked up. It was like in a meeting of three stupid people, and then some ninjas came in and sliced two of their throats. Yeah, they were just throwing their one brain cell between the three of them. Like, I already drew a map today. I can't do anything else. Yeah.

[00:31:34] Yeah, I mean, even just, yeah, trying to find the Gabriel head, and then the whole thing about Rick punching it. Oh, so funny. Several times. It was hilarious. I love it. He's just like, nothing's getting in my way. But it's a great line in the Hosier song that plays about keeping your demons on a leash. And I think that's really interesting about the group letting their demons drive their decision making. I was like, ooh, that's deep. That's interesting. So, yeah. That is good. Yeah.

[00:32:03] I've been there. Yeah. For sure. I feel like Rick is constantly there in this episode. I know. Okay. Let's talk Carol. Oh. Who, like, same thing with narratively versus personally. Narratively, I think Carol's one of the best characters in a show that's all about amazing characters. So, high praise. And even just on a personal level. Yeah. And even just on a personal level, I think she'd be fun in different contexts to just be around. Yeah.

[00:32:33] She seems like a cool person, you know. But my complaints about her are mostly about, like, her attitude. Everyone knows she unnecessarily killed Karen and David. She taught people's kids how to use weapons without telling their parents she was doing that. And she would just often encourage people to kill without, like, as a first resort, without exploring or considering any other options. In this episode, though, I think she's doing what I wish she'd done a long time ago.

[00:33:02] She's letting herself feel the moral weight of that stance and maybe having some doubts or misgivings about it. And I didn't even, I don't think, notice that until now. I need to ask a dumb question. Who is R on her list of people that she's killed? Let me get to that because I'm going to talk about the whole list. Because I was hoping you would know because I was like, I don't remember. Yeah. I have an idea who it is. So, it's some guy that she killed before the zombie apocalypse. Ralph. Oh. Ronaldo. Just kidding.

[00:33:33] Right. So, she's, so first we see her making these acorn beet cookies for everybody. And because it's Carol, I'm thinking, all right, what is she up to here? What's the play? Because there's always a hidden motive or an angle. But after the episode plays out, I think she's just raising morale. And being nice. And it's just as simple as she's doing something kind. Which I love. And she gives some to Tobin and he's like resisting. But she insists.

[00:34:01] And I think when I first saw this episode back in the day, I thought we were picking up them in the middle of a relationship. But this time I don't. I think this is, they had a moment here during the cookie giving where they're looking into each other's eyes. And I think that's the first time they've really noticed each other that way. Yeah. I think so. I agree with you on that. Then Morgan wants to know why Carol didn't tell Rick that he was sheltering that wolf. And I'm like, yeah, that's a good question. I want to know that too.

[00:34:30] And Morgan says, I don't want you to carry that. You don't want to tell anyone it's kind of like you did it too. And Carol's like, no, it's not. Which I loved. I'm like, no, Morgan. But I think, you know, on the other side, it is sort of like, well, you think what Morgan did is dangerous for your group. And yet you're not telling people what if he does it again? Then aren't you somewhat culpable? Yeah. Yeah. But then later, Carol said to Rosita, you know, if they told everyone they'd find out about Denise, you know that?

[00:35:00] Which I guess she means she didn't want to rat Denise out for helping the wolf guy. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. I wondered about that. I was like, but I think that's BS. I think she didn't tell because she's feeling bad or misgivings about killing herself and maybe feeling a little sympathetic towards Morgan's point of view. Yeah. She's very conflicted. Yeah. Then when Rosie just starts being like, that guy's a piece of shit, then Carol's like, he doesn't want to kill.

[00:35:29] So she's like standing up for him a little. I think there's a part of her that's starting to understand where he's coming from. I don't think she fully agrees with him at all, but just a little bit more like, oh, maybe it's not as simple as I thought. Then she makes this list. And so that just shows that she's thinking about it. Right. I think Morgan had asked her a few episodes ago how many people she's killed or something. I don't remember for sure.

[00:35:51] But anyways, R, I think, is Lizzie and Mika's father, Ryan Samuels, who she put down in the prison. He had reanimated. So I don't know why she would think that counts. For Karen and David. Yeah. Interesting. I think, yeah, it is. But he was a zombie. So maybe she just felt like that counted because he just died, you know? Yeah. I don't know.

[00:36:18] Then K and D is Karen and David, who she killed because they had the sniffles. Because they had the cold. L, of course, is Lizzie. She's told to look at the flowers. Terminus slash Courtyard 3 is when everybody escaped from Terminus. Maybe that was just when she shot her bottle rocket into the fuel tank and exploded it and it killed people. She wasn't in there shooting. I can't remember. I don't think so. I don't think so.

[00:36:46] Candlewoman is, well, that is inside. It's Garrett's mom, Mary. Women who tried to sell their candles before the apocalypse. Right. Multi-level marketing women from neighborhoods. Yeah, at the front door. And then WS7 is the wolves she killed in the attack. And so I found that interesting because she was such a badass, like John Wick style, right? Killing these wolves.

[00:37:12] But looking down this list, in my head, she did that kind of thing all the time. But really, that was the first time she just like killed a bunch of people with a gun like that. And I don't blame her for doing that, man. She knew that needed to be done. But there's a difference between fighting attackers and killing people in their sleep. So there's 18 total. And the only ones of those, actually, that I think were wrong, just flat out wrong, were Karen and David. But I also think maybe there should be an S for Sam on that list. Indirect kills segment.

[00:37:42] Yeah. I don't know if she would ever find out or make that connection. Yeah, maybe not. I think it's interesting because I think one of the big themes of this episode, and it comes up with conversation with Glenn and Heath and with Carol, too, is the cost of taking human life. Like the cost of what it takes to kill someone. To your soul. The way Glenn describes it, too. Heath is like seeing something that you can't stop thinking about. You don't want to eat that trauma that he describes.

[00:38:11] There's one piece of criticism I have about that is I like that Glenn and Heath are taking a moment to reflect on the heaviness of what they're about to do. But it's all about, oh, this is going to hurt me. Not about like killing other people. It's like, I'm going to feel real bad after I do this. Yeah, Glenn's like, I think I'll feel icky. Yeah, exactly. I'll be sad in my tum-tum. Oh, well, let's do it.

[00:38:40] That's why he's crying as he lowers the knife. He's like, I'll never eat breakfast tomorrow. It's so sad. But it's interesting because I think, I can't remember. It was probably the freaking Harry Potter books or something. But there's, yeah, it must be. Because there's a lot in that about your soul and the idea that killing another person rips your soul into. And that's always really stuck with me about what it means to like take life as being something that just fundamentally alters you.

[00:39:07] And I think this episode in The Walking Dead, maybe one of the reasons it is a bummer is because it does pause to quantify that in a way that other episodes don't like. There's a lot in this episode. I did write in my notes, you know, a lot of it's shooty shooty bang bang by the end. But those quiet moments of like Carol recounting in her notebook who she killed. That's a good thing about this episode. And it's something that just totally went away in the Daryl show where he's just killing random people. He doesn't even know if they're on his side or not.

[00:39:36] But I love that about The Walking Dead. You know, actually, that's a real point in this episode's favor to me. It stops and it asks the question. It's also Glenn's first kill. So that's significant. He's never killed a human being for now. Comic Blut Glenn never did. Never did. He's better. Comic Blut Glenn, better. Top guy. So on with Carol.

[00:40:02] So then she's walking at night, sits next to Tobin, they share a cigarette. And he's worried about the next day and impressed. She's going and he says, I'm not going. That's you. You're amazing. You know, I think you do that because you're a mom. And he equates being a mother. I knew you would hit this part. But he equates being a mother, not just like doing the comforting things like making cookies, but her willingness to be like a fierce protector, I think, is coming from her motherhood instincts.

[00:40:32] And I think she's like ready to hop in the sack because she feels so seen and appreciated by him. Like she loves being seen that way because she's feeling like the things I do, am I a terrible person? And here's this guy being like, you're fucking amazing. I love you. I have like two things to say. One is I fully remembered Carol being much less herself with Tobin, but I think she actually is being herself in this episode. Oh, yeah. She's like she is with Daryl kind of.

[00:41:01] That was like a nice surprise because I was like, I feel like does he even know how badass she is? And he does. And he sees it. I think the language of motherhood is really interesting here because like I don't actually think Carol's a great mom. I'm just going to put that out there. I think Carol is a huge number of things in this show and she's one of my absolute favorite characters. Yes.

[00:41:22] A lot of her biggest errors come from sort of failed parenting moments or moments of like, I mean, failed parenting moments, shooting a child in the head in the back garden is a bit more than a failed parenting moment. But I think it's a raw nerve for her. Like, I don't think she's a shit mom. I'm going to dial that back. I don't think that's true. Yeah. Because let me stop and think here. With Sophia, I think she kind of like that was more Rick's fault.

[00:41:52] But she does say when she's praying in the church that she let her husband look at her daughter. Like there's stuff where you're like, oh, she neglected some shit. And with like Sam, she wasn't his mom, but she was a horrible person towards him. With Lizzie and Mika, I mean, she kept really focusing them in on becoming deadly weapons. So yeah, you're right. Yeah. Yeah. She trained Lizzie how to use a knife. So yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

[00:42:18] It's hard because like, I think parenting is just such a raw nerve for Carol and it comes the most successful she probably is with that is with Henry. And then when that falls apart, fucking hell, that's awful. Like that's so, so bad. I agree. With Henry, that's the best we've seen. Yeah. So I think it's interesting that that is, there's still a part of her that that matters a lot to. And maybe that's even more understandable because she's feeling like I haven't actually been that great of a parent. Like I've lost my daughter.

[00:42:46] I lost my two surrogate daughters, probably didn't tell Tobin how that happened, but. But she's doing everything she's doing from the desire to protect. She's a protector. Like teaching Lizzie and Mika how to use weapons was because she wanted to protect them. And then she overlooked that Lizzie's not quite right, you know, and you shouldn't, you should treat her a little differently. But anyway, she's trying. And she's very familial.

[00:43:11] Like she's very, I'd want to be in Carol's, on Carol's team or in her tribe. Like I think that's the thing. She is loyal and protective and fierce for the people that she loves and cares about. I'd be too afraid that something could go wrong with her. Oh, would you rather be on her bad side? That's brave. No. I wouldn't want to be on her bad side. I'd rather be on a good side than a bad side. That's fair. Yeah. But yeah, I thought it was, I actually did think it was a sweet moment. I thought Tobin came off as kind of goofy high school, like just fascinated by her.

[00:43:40] And like, oh, you're like, you know, and she, you're like a cool mom. And I could see, I love that she was even into it. Right. So it's not tomorrow yet. I'm like, yeah. Yeah. Mic drop episode. Nice. Eat those cookies. Love it. Yeah. That's what I remember loving that when we first watched it, but thinking that they had already been a thing and they just didn't show us the beginning. But now even thinking of this as the beginning, still, I'm just like, and I think that's one

[00:44:07] reason why Carol is, cause I was like, okay, Carol's just been telling everyone to kill. You got to kill in this world ever for the last several seasons. Why is she suddenly turning around now? And I, I, I don't know for sure, but my guess is a, she, she's having some time to rest. They're in Alexandria. It feels like the old world. She's making cookies. And so it's just a time to really reflect and be Rick's planning to go kill a bunch of people

[00:44:37] in their sleep. And so that's causing her to think about, you know, have I contributed to this? You know, it would, it would perturb you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Think about that a little bit before you went to sleep. I would imagine. Yeah. You'd hope so. I mean, I wouldn't have assumed she would before this, but I'm glad she is. Um, and then one last thing is Maggie insisting on being part of things, even though she's pregnant. And I think Carol is highly judgmental of that. What the hell are you doing here? And she goes, what am I supposed to do?

[00:45:06] And Carol goes, you're supposed to be someone else. I think she's saying you should, you shouldn't be here because you're, you're pregnant and you should care about that more than anything. I'm not saying whether I agree. I don't know, but I'm just trying to figure out Carol. I can see why Carol would feel that having lost her child. She's probably like, we should be doing everything to, I think it's interesting. I did wonder when she originally talked to Rick about Maggie, if it was her finding an excuse to not be in and killing people as part of it as well as like, well, I'll look after Maggie then like trying to.

[00:45:35] That's what I think is. I think both of those are going on that she's using it as an excuse not to kill, but also she's feeling like wanting to protect Maggie's baby and also admonish her. Yeah. I think so. I think so. So anyway, I'm glad that she made this list and that she's thinking about it all rather than just like burying it and continue to suggest killing all the time. And it shows that Morgan's tactic kind of works. Yeah. Maybe more.

[00:46:05] I bet you you're right. Morgan had an influence on all of this. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Ferrero. Soccer's biggest stage is approaching and Ferrero is making it easy to go all in. Pick any two Ferrero brands from Kinder Bueno to Ferrero Rocher and you could win the $1 million grand prize plus an exciting range of daily and weekly prizes. Don't miss your shot. Official rules apply. Learn more at go all in and win.com.

[00:46:35] Introducing Taco Bell's new jalapeno citrus salsa with bright citrus, real red jalapenos, guajillo chiles. Usually you add sauce to the food, but when the sauce is this good, the food is just there to get the sauce to your mouth. That rolled quesadilla, not a rolled quesadilla anymore. Now it's a sauce shovel. Taco Bell's jalapeno citrus salsa. Get it with any item on the Cantina Chicken Menu while it's here. The participating U.S. Taco Bell locations for a limited time only. While supplies last, contact store for availability.

[00:47:05] Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. The message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three-month plan, equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com.

[00:47:36] I'll roll this into a romance in the zombie apocalypse. It's going better for someone than others, shall we say. The lesbians are having a great week. Shout out to the queer community. Tara and Denise having lovely time. Tara loves Denise. Denise doesn't say it back. Wouldn't it be terrible if one of them died before they get reunited again? That's what happens, right? Denise gets arrowed in the head. I think it's like in like two episodes. No. Two episodes time. Yeah. And I think Heath goes missing on this trip. Yeah.

[00:48:05] And Tara meets Oceanside. I really wish we had more Heath. I keep thinking that. Yeah, I mean, we were supposed to. He was great in the comic, but Corey Hawkins got a career. 24, maybe. Yeah. Maggie and Glenn are in a good place, but struggling with what they have to do. Maggie, I think Maggie makes a good point when she says, I brokered the deal, so I need to be a part of what happens next. And I do wonder if that weight, well, obviously that's going to weigh more heavily on her with the losses that she incurs. I kind of forgot that she was the catalyst for that.

[00:48:36] Yeah, right. Tara's lying to Denise to cover up what she'd done before, but she kind of gets absolution from both Gabriel and Jesus. So she's talking about, she said, I did something like this before, is when the governor led his people to attack the prisoners. And I'm glad they put that in there because I'd be like, oh, another man is leading me to kill people. But the difference was the governor was lying about the prison,

[00:49:05] but here it's like they're asleep. So. Yeah, exactly. But Jesus says, you know what you're fighting for when she says that she loves Denise. Yeah. Yeah. And that was a nice moment between the two of them. It was the final one, but it was good chemistry, I thought. Abraham, Abraham, Abraham, Abraham. My dude. Is he doing a whole like, what's the, is it, is it Harry and the Hendersons?

[00:49:33] You know, get out, go, go back. That's what I was wondering. I had it down as Land of the Lost, which was a show in the 70s, stop motion dinosaur kind of thing. And I remember the kid, there was like a little dinosaur that needed to go for his own safety or something. The kid was like, I don't like you anymore. Get out of here. Because it's such a shit breakup scene. And two things about it break my heart. Yeah, I don't understand it. One is like she clearly knew he was pulling away because she's not shocked. She just says why.

[00:50:03] And she's so upset and vulnerable in that moment. Yeah, good job to her. He's just so aggressively mean. Yeah, cool. You know, thought you were the last woman. I forgot my other amazing comedy moment, which is Virginia is for lovers. These cookies sure are chewy. They've got some fight in them, which is Eugene standing outside in his t-shirt. Just chewing, looking at them.

[00:50:23] One of my favorite things about this whole series, flash all the way forward to the finale, is that Eugene and Rosita get to be friends right up to the end. And when Rosita's storyline ends, she says to Eugene, I'm glad it was you. And that's one of my favorite things. And if you told me going into the finale that that would be one of my favorite things, I'd be like, I don't particularly care about those two characters. But I really do. I love that. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:50:53] Eugene is very much like that for me. A character that came in and seemed so out of a different show. The way he talks just doesn't seem real. And then over time, I don't know, I just felt moved by a lot of his stories later on. And Rosita treated so horribly here. But it made me think about how with both Rosita and Maggie, when their partners died, their characters became better for it. So much better. Narratively and personally.

[00:51:21] Like, narratively, just it allowed more focus on both of them outside of any relationship that they were in. But personally, they just, especially with Maggie, I mean, had to rise to the challenge of being a leader. But Rosita, too, she just becomes a badass. And I only have, like, I didn't really care. I thought she was kind of snotty sometimes. But after this, she becomes one of my favorite characters. And then her performance in the series finale was just one that I always remember. Yeah.

[00:51:49] And that scene with the lightning in front of, on the porch. Don't go inside. I love that. So, yeah, Abraham. But then Abraham and Sasha get to do some flirting at the armory with a lot of, like, I don't know if it's flirting. I don't know how you flirt. What if Sasha knew how he just broke up with Rosita? You think she would like that? I'm like, Sasha, come on. She doesn't know, but. Be an ally. Maybe she doesn't know.

[00:52:12] I mean, I just think it's crazy that I didn't realize the episode where they kill people in their sleep is also the one with Abraham being the worst person in the world. Like, they stuck both of those shitty-ass things. I know. I'm like, oh, I really don't enjoy you in the sense that Abraham, God. Well, that's another thing. Abraham had been becoming more and more beloved because he has this kind of almost a fun, cocky, infectious attitude. And his off-color jokes are kind of fun.

[00:52:41] And then, like, a few episodes before he dies, they're like, okay, now we want everyone to hate this character right before he dies for some reason. Why?

[00:53:17] Yeah. He's saying, I'm leaving. And they say, why? And you say, it happens. Where's the respect? Why would you do this? He was just cuddling up to her the night before. And when he said, she insists he say why. And he said, when I first met you, I thought you were the last woman on earth. You're not. Awful. And I think, I don't know, but the truth is he did like Rosita a lot, but he fell harder for someone else.

[00:53:47] And this explanation, I thought you were the last woman on earth. You're not. Sounds like I was only with you because I thought there was literally no one else. And I don't think that's true. How could it be? Rosita is, she's fierce. She's loyal, smart, fun, all good things. Capable, hot as hell. So, it's ridiculous. And then, so that's why, same with you. I was like, maybe it was like a Harry and the Hendersons kind of a thing. But don't do that.

[00:54:14] Just say, even if he can't like access his feelings because he's a toxic male, just say, I fell in love with someone else. I'm sorry. That wouldn't have felt good, but it would have been so much better than being cruel like this. Right? I fell in love with someone else. I'm sorry. Like, that's all she wants to know. Also, like, presumably he's about to go and move in with her. Like, I'm like, where is he going? Where is he practically going? Is he literally just moving in with her? Like, wow.

[00:54:43] Do you think that would have been better to hear? I think so. I think it's better to know the truth. Than, I thought you were the last woman on earth that was wrong or I fell in love with someone else. I'm sorry. I think the second one, it would hurt more at the time. Well, no, they both fucking hurt at the time, but at least you can kind of justify it a bit. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, the only reason I can think why he did that is because he wanted to really make her hate him thinking it would be easier for her.

[00:55:13] But that's not, that's just me trying to bring some sanity to a weird ass scene. Because I don't know if they ever clarify that. Yeah. I don't think they do. I was shocked. I remember being almost as shocked at that scene as I was with them killing people in their sleeve. Like, what? Yeah. It's just, it's so dire. It's really, he doesn't really come back from this for me. I'm just like, well, that was pretty bad.

[00:55:43] I can't blame you. I'm like, maybe Negan's a feminist. Negan's like, you did what to her? Right. Maybe they wanted us when, um, they did this because when Negan starts, uh, killing Abraham, we're like, okay, good. Yeah, it was him. If it had to be someone, pick that asshole. Negan is an ally. Oh, that's so funny. Anyway. Okay. Uh, let's see.

[00:56:09] Um, we should just talk about, you know, the actual plan. Well, the lead up to the plan, uh, did we already, I had a bunch of notes on the lead up to the plan, but we've already covered most of it. So I'll just read the few that I have left, which is one when they stopped along the way to look, I think for Gabriel lookalike Zed heads. Uh, Gregory. Yeah. Gregory. Yeah. Then Rick asked Gabriel why he's still wearing his priest uniform. And he says, I'm still who I was, I think.

[00:56:39] And that just reminded me of, I think on purpose too, of when Rick used to wear his police badge and uniform for a while after the ZA started. The role of uniforms in the show is so interesting because they do become costumes. Like maybe this is why I struggle with the terminology. It's like uniforms don't really exist in this world, but when we wear them, we're performing a role.

[00:57:01] I mean, it's the same now pre-apocalypse, but it's interesting because in the Commonwealth, obviously uniforms and stormtrooper outfits become part of that fabric again. But they seem so laughable in a way that there's so much we do now that we take for granted and we, we use these uniforms as indicators of like who someone is, what they do, what their role is. And yeah, Gabriel, I always love that characters like the guy that he shoots in this episode, which is a cool scene, actually.

[00:57:31] There's something creepy about Gabriel. Like lots of people say it. Like I feel like Negan says it a lot. It's like kind of a Tarantino movie there. Yeah. There is something about him in the way that Seth Gillum plays him, which combined with this kind of holier than thou literal job. I don't know. It always adds something to it.

[00:57:51] And I really, I really thought it was interesting that not only is it Glenn's first kill this episode, it's Gabriel's and he's quite, he seems more chill about it than Glenn does, which is a choice, I guess. I think he killed someone who was bitten, but. I think he's killed a Zed, hasn't he? Or. I think he turned, killed someone who was bitten, but didn't turn yet, but I'm not sure about that. But I think from this point on, he's pretty comfortable with killing. Yeah. Seems like.

[00:58:20] I just keep thinking about that season 10 episode with Aaron and Gabriel. So good. Robert Patrick. So good. So let's talk about the actual, you know, when they go in. Shooty, shooty, bang, bang. Do you have a point on that? I actually, do you know what? In terms of the actual action that plays out in the satellite post, I always find this kind of stuff not that interesting. It's just a lot of kind of back and forth. For sure. I did get a surprise when the guy sounded the alarm. I'd completely forgotten that had happened.

[00:58:51] I remembered the satellite post, the whole thing being a bit bigger. So I am a bit like, how many people did they actually kill during this? Because it seems like quite a small building when they're in it. But. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It didn't seem like that many. Jesus had said he'd only seen 20 of them together at once. So you got to think that there would be at least 20 or else Rick would be like, where's the rest of them? You'd think. Jesus, there were four men in there. Are you sure you saw 20? Is this all of them? He pulls his little face mask up. He's like, I'm a ninja.

[00:59:21] He disappears. So I loved. I mean, so you see the two guys, the idiots out in front, just being idiots. And then one of them goes inside to get this guy, Craig, the prisoner. And then all of a sudden you see Daryl behind the other guy slitting his throat. Right. And then the camera backed up and you could see that there were like several yards on either side of this guy that were open.

[00:59:50] So I really want to see Daryl like tiptoeing up behind him against the wall or something. But I did like, then the other guy comes out and we didn't see Michonne go behind the bush. Suddenly she was just there eviscerating from the back. I thought that was pretty cool. It reminded me of the termites appearing in that long shot in the start of season five where they appear from the darkness and head towards the church.

[01:00:17] Like that kind of suddenly everyone's there and then they disappear again. Yeah. They do good things with shadows sometimes. That was a good shadowy episode. So then inside Rick is the first one to knife one of them. And it seemed almost a little too peaceful. Like you'd think they'd writhe around and even scream or something. They wouldn't just be dead silently. Right? Yeah. And then, and then Glenn and Heath go in the room and it seemed like, I can't remember

[01:00:47] if they opened the door, but definitely the door was open and light from the hallway was shining on these guys' faces. I would totally wake up. These ding-dongs sleep deeply. I would be like, what? Why are you here? Go away. Leave me alone, Negan. It's not my turn. Although, did you see like, there's a very brief flash of like, there's a hell of a weed farm at that outpost. Oh no, I didn't see that. Literally, there's a flash of like, I'm like, what the fuck? Because they're criminals. That's why. Yeah. It's because they're ding-dongs, man.

[01:01:16] So then, yeah, Glenn kills the guy and a couple of the guys. Bad. We already talked about all that. Then the guy with the thin hair and mustache jumps out and attacks. I thought it was Simon at first. It looked kind of like Simon. If only. But he's dead. So yeah, it can't be him. Then we get a firefight, which just gives me flashbacks to like all of season seven and eight. Probably more eight, I think, is when the war starts. Yeah.

[01:01:43] Then Aaron knifes the guy out fighting him and says, if it wasn't us, it was going to be you. Like Aaron has to explain himself morally to these guys that he's killing. Yeah. That's funny. Then some chase Glenn and Heath into the armory and they fire through the closed door and it turns out they hit them all. And I think they made a point to show that one of them was a woman. I don't know if they wanted us to feel like, oh, maybe this wasn't the right thing. I don't know. Women can be bad too. I don't know. We can. I did notice that.

[01:02:13] We can. It's true. Then Gabriel kills that one you just mentioned. And the guy, as he's dying, says, you're all dead. Blood's coming. And I'm like, maybe you should be concerned. What do you mean? What do you mean by that? Quick. Tell me. Sorry. What? Because I think we succeeded. Don't you think? Meanwhile, Gabriel's reading like half the Bible and he's like, sorry, what? Yeah. Wait, I'm giving my cool line here. Amen. Rick's like, you couldn't have got more information from him. He's like, no, I was doing scripture. Right. Exactly.

[01:02:42] Then things calm down and it seems like they got them all. And I was thinking, do they think they killed Negan? And then Michonne says, just wondering if which one of them was Negan. And then one more guy's alive and they take him down and point the gun at him. And then you hear over the radio, lower your gun, prick you with a cold Python. And I just thought, whoopsie. I rarely think that Michonne is stupid. But in that moment, I was like, you're stupid. Yeah.

[01:03:12] It was one of those things where they had him do something that was kind of stupid just for the. Oh, yeah. Propel the story forward. Absolutely. All right. Any notes? The weed farm was on my notes because I found that quite entertaining. What is a dingleberry? I need to explain it. It's a piece of dry poo that hangs off your butthole. Oh, legit. It's not real.

[01:03:42] Are you kidding? I thought it was like a real berry. Hang on. Learn something new every day. Dingleberries. That's so funny. Oh, no. It's true. Oh, no. This is the best part of this podcast. I'm sure people are saying that right now. Oh, my God. I thought it was just one of those weird American words that I don't know. It is. If you told me it was a real thing, I'd have been like, yeah, yeah, I've eaten dingleberries. It is a real thing. You don't eat it. Don't eat them. Oh, my life. Yeah. Because he said, you know, dingles or berries are brown.

[01:04:11] That's just the way shit is. And I thought, oh, clever pun. It's even more clever than I realized. I love that the Savior wiped blood on the guy from Hilltop. I just thought that they did such a good job of these guys being just absolute pricks. Yes, that was the best. Jesus stepped up. Jesus fights alongside them. Yes. Although I don't think his disguise is as good as he thinks it is. He's like, they're not going to see me. I'm like, those piercing eyes, that long, luscious hair. Of course they're going to see you. Hey, that's that ninja guy that always wears the face mask.

[01:04:41] And then he takes it off and puts his hands out and says, but they called you Jesus in high school. This is the new world. Like, God, they're really upping their kind of quips in this episode. Yeah, that is, it's sad that this is when Tara says bye to Glenn forever. And also Heath, they're heading off on their two-week run. So that felt significant. Oh, Tara's not, never sees Glenn again? Yeah, Tara won't see Glenn again. Really? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. By the time she comes back, Denise is dead.

[01:05:10] Glenn's gone. Yeah. Bummer for her. I know. In fact, yeah, I have some timeline stuff, but yeah, that's me. That's my notes. Yeah, okay. I only had two quick notes. One, Morgan's making a cell, finally. Which... Oh, who taught him how to be like a welder? Like, I was like, I feel like you need to have training to know how to weld stuff. He's like, I'm going to weld a cell. Do we know what his job was? Can't even remember now. Actually, to be fair, we do not.

[01:05:38] For some reason, I always imagined it would be something like a social worker. He made prison cells. He made prison cells. He was part of the carceral justice system. Well, I'm glad he's doing it because I think he's sort of like, if my arguments are going to have any traction, I need an alternative. And he's making it. So good job. And that cell does get some use. Negan's in there for several years. And I think Dante's in there for a little while. Yeah. Forget if there's anyone else. And then my last note, when foraging for, I guess, beats and acorns,

[01:06:06] Carol encounters this one zombie, particularly good one, the woman in the 90 with her eye poking out because the skin's pulled back all around it. Do you think that was foreshadowing? And her creepy walk and everything. Foreshadowing for what? Glenn's eye. Oh, eyeball. Maybe. Maybe. There are a lot of bats in Walking Dead before we get to the final bat. You're really torturous, man. I know. You're really torturous. Okay. What about IMDb? IMDb.

[01:06:34] I actually find this one quite interesting. So the scenes of the compound were filmed at a decommissioned telecommunications facility that was allegedly bought by a private investor who used it to search for extraterrestrial life. I can believe that. Hence the big satellite dish on top. So that's insane. The second one, I checked on my rewatch. Greg Nicotero said that he used Johnny Depp's head for the scene of the three heads. And the other one was Greg Nicotero's head. It does actually look a bit like Johnny Depp if you go back and have a look.

[01:07:04] So yeah, there you go. I thought one of them looked kind of like Greg. So I'm glad to hear that. Yeah. Because I'm like, I hope they just don't all look kind of like Greg. That would be not so good for Greg. Right. Rick's use of the words, we have to come for them before they come for us, is the exact same thing he said in 6-1 first time again when they were leading the walkers in the quarry away from Alexandria. Now it says this is the first episode where you hear the saviour's infamous whistle. You hear someone whistle happy birthday. I don't think you hear the infamous whistle. Yeah.

[01:07:33] It's the non-infamous whistle. Yeah. Alana Masterson was nine months, almost nine months pregnant in the filming of this episode. Glenn, Heath and Tara all have their first human kills in this episode and Gabriel has his first direct kill. It's day 605. So it's April the 20th. That's where we see Rick justifying the war. Carl and Tobin begin a romantic relationship and Abraham breaking up with Rosita.

[01:07:58] The following day, or I assume the night, is day 606, which is April 21st, where they go to the satellite outpost. The lineup is 12 days away and Carl's death is 41 days away. Oh my gosh. Carl, countdown. I know. Two horrible countdowns there. So there are 600 days, not even two years. Not even two years. They're already crazy. It's already gone to shit.

[01:08:26] Only on The Walking Dead would the comic relief part be a guy repeatedly punching a severed head. Only in The Walking Dead can you make taking a human life being about your sad feelings rather than the morality. But looking at you, Glenn.

[01:09:25] Ready to soundtrack your summer? With Red Bull Summer All Day Play, you choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic, a deep end DJ, a road dog, or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit redbull.com slash bright summer ahead to learn more. See you this summer. At Oli, we've got wellness down to a science.

[01:09:55] From PMS to pregnancy to menopause, our women's wellness line offers science-backed support for every stage. No judgment, no shame. None of the stigma. Just supplements designed to meet you wherever you're at. Oli. Choose science over shame. Find support at a retailer near you or on oli.com. That's O-L-L-Y dot com. This episode is brought to you by State Farm.

[01:10:21] You know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips? That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over 19,000 local agents, they help you find the coverage that fits your needs. So you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go online at statefarm.com. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Okay, time for Lister Mones, Grunts and Grunts.

[01:10:52] So first, Randy has caught up with the podcast and heard the part where we asked for an illustration to accompany the eventual Podcastica Zombie Apocalypse guidebook. And he sent this little thing of a zombie crawling after a baby with a red circle and a line through it. How to train your child to deal with the zombie apocalypse. And then it says, don't do this under the picture. Oh, that's amazing. I love it. I love it.

[01:11:22] All right. Laurie Stewart says, I'm thoroughly enjoying the rewatch, but this is where I will largely opt out for the next couple of seasons or more accurately, opt out of watching the show, never the podcast. I think I will listen to the podcast first and that will likely spur me to at least watch certain scenes. Just can't rewatch some of this, but genuinely look forward to your takes. Laurie, that makes me happy. Protect your energy, but also keep listening. Yeah, but you should go in and watch the scene where Glenn kills the guy in his sleep. Yeah, it's a laugh a minute.

[01:11:52] I'm just kidding. Yeah, I don't know if we're going to be convincing you. I have a feeling if anyone heard this podcast, they'd be like, well, I'm not watching that one again. Yeah. Yeah. But I hope you keep writing in, Laurie, if anything inspires you to write in about any of it, all these upcoming two awful seasons. Okay. Carly says, I thought Gabriel going in for the kill while reciting a prayer was the creepiest thing ever. I know he's a good guy now, but dang, the tone was really weird in this episode. It was a bummer.

[01:12:20] I think because our group is dealing with the huge shift of committing a preemptive strike instead of killing people in self-defense. Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was really intense to see Glenn dealing with that. I think Carol being protective of Maggie was the right thing to do. I know it's setting up the next episode, which is one of my favorites. Wait, what is the next episode? Uh, it's the one with the 400. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, that is a good one where it's Maggie and Carol and the two savior women, right? Yeah.

[01:12:50] Something like that. Matt King says, the worst decision Rick ever made and the time our gang finally became despicable murderers, only Morgan offering any opposition. Far too cocky a decision, putting so many lives at risk, but no one else willing to question it. As Carol will be reminded in the next episode, you're not the good guys in this. It just happens that it's their story we followed from the start rather than Negan's. Effectively, this is the beginning of the end for Glenn and Abraham. You are correct, Matt.

[01:13:19] Except I would argue if we were following Negan's story from the beginning, we'd be thinking what a piece of shit from the beginning. Okay. Phoebe the fan says, hi, I'm new. I've been listening to your backlog of the rewatch and I'm finally all caught up. I started watching the walking dead. Season eight was airing crazy time to start. Not tomorrow yet is one of my favorite episodes of season six. I love how cocky Rick and his group has gotten at this point.

[01:13:46] To their credit, they've handled a lot of bad guys, although maybe they should consider that every time they've taken down an enemy, a good chunk of their group goes with them. That's a good point. Maybe that's why they're doing this because they don't want that to happen. But anyway, the confidence that Rick has been building since he got to Alexandria really sees its high point here and soon it'll hit its absolute lowest. Very true. I love the contrast. I also like seeing, now I'm picturing him just like on the ground, snot bubbling. Yeah.

[01:14:14] I also like seeing Glenn really wrestle with having to kill human beings. Do you remember realizing that Glenn had never done that before? I don't even know if I did realize it. Uh, that was, well, he, he says it outright. So that was a big reveal for me. And I like seeing that struggle that we haven't really seen since early on in the walking dead. Also, did you catch how annoyed Father Gabriel looked when Tara wanted to confess to him? No, I didn't. Father Gabriel is one of my favorite characters and I like watching this era for him knowing

[01:14:42] that he comes out on the other side as a complete badass who is still really confident in his faith. I mean, I feel like he's going in that direction right now, actually. Thank you, Phoebe. Always good to hear from your listeners as well. Josie Bowen Echtel says, Hi guys, I've been keeping up on the rewatch but getting feedback in has been touch and go. I must say first, how much I enjoy Tobin and think he's a very underrated character. I agree, Josie. I love seeing Carol be a bit playful, calling him asshole.

[01:15:11] Good zombie when it comes to. Oh man, yeah. And having some witty banter. It's clear she never felt this free with Ed and it's lovely to see her character evolve. I also always appreciate seeing her kill list, not in a morbid way, but just that she recognizes each death and how much it weighs on her. We see her character fluctuate in and out with religion every now and then and I think the show does it well. She's lethal but she doesn't enjoy it and she just knows it must be done. I appreciated her standing up for Maggie too.

[01:15:39] Rosita's storyline makes me so sad in this episode. She deserved so much more from the end of that relationship. I think in Abraham's eyes he's doing her a favour by being so brutal and making her angry, likely thinking she won't be as hurt by it if that's his approach. He clearly can't address his own feelings either, which is why he's such a dick. But I know that didn't feel good to him to do that to her. He is a man of few emotional words and I don't think he could articulate well the real reason he left, but damn it's hard to watch and certainly no excuse.

[01:16:06] It makes it that much harder to support his infatuation with Sasha, though I do understand their draw to each other with how they handle their PTSD. I just wish if they were going to do all this we could actually see chemistry between the two characters. I, yeah, I'm kind of with you on that, Josie. I'll leave the Outpost takedown for everyone else to comment on. I think with each rewatch it gets worse, to be honest, though I did forget the moment when Glenn sees all those pictures. A sign of what is to come, yes, but also a bit of a rationalising moment for he and Heath. Oof.

[01:16:34] As always, I'm excited to hear y'all's thoughts and insight and can't wait to tune in. Bye! Thanks, Josie. Josie, good to hear from you. Yeah, maybe, I mean, there is something good to Abraham having waited two months before he broke up with Rosita because it seemed like he was sort of going, you know what, maybe that was just like dumb and I'll just, and I have Rosita, but he couldn't stop thinking about Sasha the whole time. No. And then when it was Sasha like expressed, you know what, we're not going to be hanging out anymore,

[01:17:04] he's like, all right, I got to do something now or never. Be funny if he broke up with Rosita and went over to Sasha's house and she's like, I told you, I'm not doing it. Yeah. Take me back. Right. Remember that joke I did the other night? Remember the joke I did that was funny? No. Okay. Rinaldi Kalixt says, hello, Jason and Lucy. Your rewatch podcast is chugging along smoothly, which is awesome. Thanks, Rinaldi. We're getting closer and closer to seeing Jeffrey Dean Morgan in his leather jacket with Lucy.

[01:17:34] By Lucy, I don't mean the podcaster, but the baseball bat. Aww. Thanks for clarifying. Zed heads are groaning, pining for the days when Karen and David jokes were made during season four of The Walking Dead on this podcast. I don't blame them for feeling that way. Anyway, this is weird, but I enjoyed this episode less as a rewatch because the debate surrounding Rick's plan and how intense it was when this airs, though it boiled down to, if memory serves correctly, most fans agreeing with Rick's plan and critics not comfortable with Rick's plan at all for moral reasons.

[01:18:04] I'm still with the critics still after all these years and a full explanation would be a long essay. Season three finale Rick's actions would be my main argument for agreeing with most critics on this. Season three finale. That was, uh, what did he do? I was in that episode. I can't remember what happened. Season three finale. At the prison. Um, I think it, the, I know the governor attacked. He took all the old people in from Woodbury. That was four.

[01:18:34] No. Season four finale is terminus. You're right. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Good job. Uh, I'm not sure if that's exactly what he means, but I think it is. Yeah. Anyway, maybe, maybe I'll find out when I keep reading. He says near objectively, ultimately, this is like my opinion, man. At the end of the day, that's from, uh, big Lebowski is this is the 30th greatest walking dead episode on my rewatch because it creatively made Negan a disruptor to life in Alexandria on a psychological level.

[01:19:04] We see this through Carol with the opener showing an idyllic minus having to kill Walker's domestic life, which I thought was a good creative choice. Is Carol unsettled in her domestic life or is she content with it? And we, the audience are like, this is weird. Carol's supposed to be a killing machine. Why does she seem happy baking cookies when before it was just a way to spy on people? I think it can be for nice reasons too. Um, I think Carol wants to try to make a go at living a normal life. Yeah. But the concern about Negan potentially taking over Alexandria, uh, Alexandria ruins that for her.

[01:19:34] I think it was smart for this episode to focus on Carol. And once again, Melissa McBride plays it extremely well. It seems that Carol is struggling to re-engage as a warrior and that she really did enjoy being the town mom for real. Also, Abraham broke up with Rosita so abruptly with little explanation and right before a big attack on the saviors, I feel so bad for Rosita and wouldn't Sasha find out and be less interested in hanging out with Abraham. Abraham and Sasha is just the generic grocery store brand version of Rick and Michonne.

[01:20:04] I'd rather have the name brand in this case. Speaking of Michonne quote, which one of them was Negan? Michonne asks, even my number two favorite character of the walking dead is acting cocky about Negan. I think she was more worried. Like she, she was inside going, I don't, I didn't see Negan in there. I hope to God one of them was Negan. Which one was like more like that? Anyway, she's acting cocky about Negan. Wow. If only Michonne knew how wrong she was. Wow.

[01:20:33] You're not wrong, Rinaldi. She'll find out. Will Edwards says, holy shit, this is such a good episode. Not good because it makes me feel good like No Way Out. Good because it's so dark and full of complexities. I don't remember much beyond the action sequence of Storming the Compound, but so many people in our group actually struggle with this choice, despite believing it is the right one. Carol's arc of coming to terms with the things she's done has begun. It seems Morgan is getting in her head, or maybe she was already in her head about it and he's making things worse.

[01:21:03] I'm happy that she has a distraction in Tobin, though it doesn't really work and won't last long. Feels like maybe it's more for other people than for her. Part of her, I'm normal, I'm fine facade. Or she's trying to convince herself of that. Could be. I totally forgot that this was a huge episode for Glenn. The first time he said to kill a living person and oh lord, what a way to have to do it. But what does he see? One of the men has photos of dead people with smashed heads displayed on his wall. This is the last bit of evidence I need that these people likely can't be reasoned with.

[01:21:31] Glenn is so kind trying to save Heath from killing anyone, but alas, they have to defend themselves and it happens anyway. We finally get to the raid and it's much faster paced and more intense than I remember. The suspense, the emotion, the action, the brutality. I love the heaviness of it, of this whole episode really. I'd argue that this is another episode that demonstrates why we love this show so much. It's about humanity, survival, living in a world where there is no structure, no law, no predictability. It wasn't an easy choice, but I believe this was their best option.

[01:22:01] I think they did the best they could with the information they had. Oh, Rachel, we might disagree with you there. They know the saviours would have killed Sasha, Abraham and Daryl without question out on the road. They know the saviours killed a 16 year old boy for no reason. The saviours extort the hilltop and once they find Alexandria, they will certainly do the same to them. It's only a matter of time. There is not one piece of information about the saviours that suggests there might be something rational to tap into.

[01:22:28] And any way they could possibly gather more information would have involved a huge amount of risk and inevitably violence anyway. I guess they could have not made a deal with Gregory and walked away from Hilltop without food and supplies. But how could they realistically with a community to hold together? I'm looking forward to hearing your arguments against this decision. Negan was just really smart to keep the sanctuary secret and divide up his soldiers. He's a formidable opponent. And fucking Dwight's an asshole. And now Daryl knows he's a saviour. Oh, I hate that guy.

[01:22:58] So much to come with those two. Thanks again for having me on last week. It was so much fun. It was so fun, Rachel. I really enjoyed that. And you answered a question I had, which was that Daryl's bike that Primo disappeared on or appeared on. And yes, it must have been. Because Dwight took Daryl's bike, right? Right, right. I forgot about that. Yeah. Let me think about it. I didn't really do much thinking on what I thought they should have done instead. But that's a good question.

[01:23:27] Because if we're going to be so against what they did do, then I want to think a little bit more about what I think they should have done instead. So I'll try to look around and see what people have said and do some thinking myself. Come up with something next time. Okay. Amber Lovo says, what an action-packed episode it was. Delightful in the beginning watching Carol make cookies and give some to everyone in town. Not sure how delicious acorn and beet cookies would be, but here we are.

[01:23:55] Do you believe, Tobin, that he actually liked it? I think beetroot can be tasty. Red velvet cakes traditionally beetroot, and that's really good. I think it could be good. And it probably was. I think Carol's really good. But I also could see Tobin just saying that because he liked her. I mean, he got a cookie and he got laid, so he made the right decisions. That's right. She's very motherly and nurturing, even if it's partly a ruse. It was kind of nice to see her with somebody like Tobin. Not sure if that's a long-term thing or not in this kind of show, but it's kind of sweet.

[01:24:24] The amount of sass she gives him. She's very sassy. And their banter, it's wholesome. And I love it. Yeah, that's consistent with Carol, because she's sassy like that with Daryl, too. The person that she's the most comfortable with on this show. Yeah. But not in a sexy way, more of a sister-brother way, but still there's something in common with it. Yeah. You know? I think so. It shows she's relaxed. It shows she's kind of being herself. Yeah. Fun. Oh, Rosita and Abraham.

[01:24:51] It looks like Abraham's finally going to deal with his relationship stuff. The way he decided to act was incredibly harsh. I felt really, really bad for Rosita. He has a point. His and Rosita's relationship started when they both thought they were the only people left in the world. I guess. But the way Abraham said that to her was cruel. And yeah, I'm not really fond of him at the moment. Are they trying to make him unlikable? That's a good question. Then you get poor Eugene just standing there completely oblivious to the crisis Rosita was going through.

[01:25:19] He's so smart, and yet he has no idea how to read the room. I know a few people like that in my life. Yeah. Yeah, we all do. I appreciate that Rick decided to bring this whole plot and pitch it to the town, although he had his mind completely set on what they were going to do. He did try to make it seem like everybody kind of had some say. The matter of whether they did have a choice or not is something else. I think if everybody would have voted against him, then he would have gone with what they said. I don't know.

[01:25:48] I mean, I hope so. I hope so. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's sort of like when he wanted to storm Don's hospital, and Daryl said, no, let's capture a few of the guys instead. And Rick went along with it. That's true. So I think he can be confused. And he was asking for a vote there. But anyway, that's my evidence. Poor Tara really seems to be having some tough recollections of the past. I completely forgot about her involvement with the governor until this episode. Her relationship with Denise is so sweet.

[01:26:16] And I know that good things don't last on this show, but I really would love to see them more long term. Well. Well, well, well. That's not happening. I mean, you could watch this episode again. So they're going to try to infiltrate the Savior's compound, but they really don't seem to have enough information to make it work. I really thought that Jesus or one of the other hilltop people would know more so they could plan it better. But I must have missed a part explaining why they know so little. That's my bad.

[01:26:43] I mean, they don't know because it's just Negan has a group of his men go to a community, kill someone and demand half their stuff. And that's all you ever see of them. That's literally it. It was interesting watching Heath and Glenn talk about their lack of experience in this sort of ambush situation. And then going into the compound, they really had each other's backs and seemed to really bond through it all. It brought me back some of the conversations and arguments that happened during the episode. Thank you. When Heath was not sure of our group at all.

[01:27:13] It's nice to see them work as such a good team. Unfortunately, I know what the future holds. The search for the lookalike head is just gross, but very inventive. I was like, look, they have a Zed head. Mic drop. No. Zed head. I did. I did think that. I like that. Yeah. I still can't believe that they're letting Maggie come to these missions. She should be at home keeping safe. I know she doesn't want to. I know she wants to be helpful and where the fighting is. But I knew that if she went to the invasion, something bad was most likely going to happen. And look at the end.

[01:27:42] It happened. Yeah. Jenny was sort of like that. Like we went to on a Belizean vacation when she was pregnant with Nico. We went out like snorkeling and she wanted to do the zip line. Oh, man. And I was like, she's pregnant. And they're like, oh, she can't do it. Oh. Oh. It's probably a good thing because I like totally slammed into one of the posts. Oh, no. Oh, no. I was coming down the zip line.

[01:28:11] There's a big mattress on the post and they told you, okay, when you see the guy raise his hand, pull on the brake so you'll slow down. And I did not see the guy raise his hand because it was some kid who was like talking to a girl and forgot that he was supposed to be helping with the zip line. It's funny. Oh, no. Anyway, she goes on. I really like Jesus in this episode. He's grown on me even if I don't want to like any new characters. I'm jaded, okay? And I must admit, Father Gabriel is getting better every day.

[01:28:40] I don't like that, okay? Just kidding. It's nice to see character growth. That's what we want in the show, right? And that's what they're best at. Yeah, that's right. Well, like any, I mean, it's weird probably doing a rewatch where we talk about future versions of the character that we like, but we had to come to that slowly episode by episode. So it's harder to believe when we just say it. It is. To be fair, I think that the sense of time in the rewatch does have a weird effect on things like that. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

[01:29:08] She says, well, like any raid without enough information for proper planning, it was chaotic. It went well in some moments, terrible in others, and worse still from time to time. I know we're only a few episodes away from the big thing, and I know we're dealing with Negan here. And from everything I've learned about him so far, he reminds me of Scar from The Lion King, but probably worse. I mean, Scarhead style. So now I'm picturing Jeremy Irons. Is that his name in this role? Yeah, his teeth and ambitions are bared.

[01:29:37] This episode ends on a cliffhanger. What's going to happen to Maggie and what's going to happen to Carol? I don't know, but I do know they have plot armor at this point, so they're safe. You're right. But it's a good episode. Well, I've made it so far much further into the show than my first watch, and I'm sure glad I'm here. I'm quite enjoying seeing it all the way through for the first time ever, while the last season and a half for the first time in all future episodes.

[01:30:02] I'm kind of glad I'm watching it as someone who's been somewhat spoiled by social media because this stuff is intense. And I feel for all of you that were watching it from the beginning, while it was week to week on cable, especially those who hadn't read the comic books. Yeah, this was intense. I mean, especially the season finale here and such a shitty cliffhanger. She says, only on The Walking Dead would you go head hunting in a group of zombies. Only on The Walking Dead would you break the nose of a zombie so you can convince someone it's somebody else. Bye for now.

[01:30:32] Oh, what great light your fangs, Amber. Yeah, it's fun to get your... I think one of my first... Play-by-play as a new watcher. I think one of my first calls to the show got played in the original episode for this episode. I think. I need to go out and check. Oh, wow. I remember writing a little script and recording it, but I don't know if it got played or not. But yeah. Oh, yeah. Let me see. Hold on a second. Oh, my God. You have it right there?

[01:30:59] I had made a note. It might be a future thing. I'll have to look for it. Okay. I made a note to play an early call of yours or something like that, but I can't find it. Sorry. That's fine. I find that cringe. So I'm okay with that. It may happen at some point. All right. One more message. It's a call from Archmaester Rennie. Rennie.

[01:31:27] I just want to go on the record saying that I still believe that Enid was a spy. I just think she was such a good and talented spy that we never found out who she was spying for. She never gave herself away. I just think that Enid is a spy. It's just one of my favorite fan theories ever. So good. And I'm just not willing to let it go.

[01:31:52] And the rewatch just makes her seem even more like she's a spy. All right. You keep on believing that. In the UK, we like the word sus. Enid is sus. Enid's delightful. That's what I think. That's my conspiracy theory. So was like Mata Hari and other spies. I bet. I don't know. I have no evidence to back that up, but I'm going to say it anyway. All right. That is our show.

[01:32:22] Episode 704. Thanks for listening, everybody. Next will be The Walking Dead, season six, episode 12. The same boat. We're going to need a samer boat. If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com. And while you're there, please check out our other podcasts. What are our other podcasts?

[01:32:44] I mean, Karen and I are chugging away on severance and Daphne and Wendy and me are coming up on the scene finale of The Testaments. Oh, and I guested on Run For Your Lives talking about 28 years later. Again, you covered it twice. I did. So did pick. So yeah, that I think was released. Run For Your Lives. Yeah. I think that was released this week. So go for it.

[01:33:10] Oh, I saw the movie Obsession in the theaters. Oh, was it good? Yes. Oh, man. It's really podcast worthy. I was thinking about. I'm really, I'm torn about seeing Hocum as well. I sort of want to see it, but I'm sort of terrified to see it. It's Adam Scott. You covered it on Severance, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, we talked about it on the Severance podcast. Is it like super disturbing or something? I think it's meant to be. Okay, watch it and let us know.

[01:33:39] Listeners, I'm staring into space going, hmm. All right, that is our show. Thanks for listening. Don't get bit, Julie Hannan Palmer. The right window treatments change everything. Your sleep, your privacy, the way every room looks and feels. At Blinds.com, we've spent 30 years making it surprisingly simple to get exactly what your home needs. We've covered over 25 million windows and have 50,000 five-star reviews to prove we deliver. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we have you covered.

[01:34:08] Real design professionals. Free samples. Zero pressure. Right now, get up to 45% off with minimum purchase. Plus, get a free professional measure at Blinds.com. Rules and restrictions apply. This summer at Wolf Trap, Sting, Trombone Shorty, Lauren Daigle, Harry Connick Jr., Young the Giant, A.R. Rahman, Sarah McLaughlin, and many more. Tickets on sale now at wolftrap.org.