706: "Twice As Far" (TWD S6E14 Rewatch)

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[00:00:57] Podcast to go. I could have gone with Tara. I could have told her I loved her, but I didn't. Because I was afraid. That's what's stupid. Not coming out here, not facing my shit, and it makes me sick that you guys aren't even trying. Because you're strong, and you're smart, and you're both really good people, and if you don't wake...

[00:01:30] And face your...

[00:01:31] Hey Zenheads, welcome to the podcast.

[00:02:04] I'm Jason. And I'm Lucy. And this is The Walking Dead 'Cast, episode 706. And this episode, we're covering The Walking Dead, season 6, episode 14, twice as far. Why is it called that? Because it's twice as far to go through the woods rather than the train tracks. Oh. Oh. But then you live. Yeah. Unlike, per Denise. More Denise. So, for some of the...

[00:02:31] We decided, Lucy and I, that we're going to go back to a strategy we did earlier in the rewatch for some of these episodes. Some of that may be less... Well, I wouldn't call this less consequential. That's so mean to Denise. I love Denise. We love Denise. For where one of us is just going to take briefer notes and the other one will be more prepared, just to kind of make the rewatch a little bit easier on ourselves. And then you get to guess which one was more prepared. Which one did what? So, would you like to read the plot summary? Absolutely.

[00:03:03] Abraham and Eugene go on a patrol and find a facility where Eugene can craft ammunition. Abraham leaves after Eugene claims he no longer requires Abraham's protection. Daryl, Rosita and Denise travel to an apothecary to scavenge medicines. Denise is killed by Dwight and the saviours who ambush Daryl and Rosita while holding Eugene hostage. A gun battle ensues and Eugene is injured before Dwight retreats with the surviving members of his group. And his dick!

[00:03:29] Um, Carol sneaks out of Alexandria, leaving a note for Tobin, expressing her wishes not to be pursued. Yeah, there's two deaths in this episode. Denise and Dwight's dick. Dwight's D. D's D. Bye D. Bye D. Forever. Uh, what do you think about this one? Yeah, I think we're in the final homestretch of this season. It's all getting a bit ominous.

[00:03:56] Um, I thought it's such a bummer to see Merritt Weaver leave the show, but it was a good shocking death. It's one of the obvious ones aside, one of the last kind of really shocking deaths I remember The Walking Dead kind of doing. So, yeah, it was worth it for that. Um, and some interesting character beats around it that I'd forgotten about. So, it would be interesting to dig into those a little bit. I was looking at my old notes and apparently I was spoiled on this death. I didn't even remember being spoiled. Oh, no way!

[00:04:24] But this time I was, you know, because I haven't seen the episode for years, every time she started talking I was kind of bracing for it. Like, is this it? Is this it? Yeah, I can never remember the light. And I'm like, when? Oh, no! Why? She's giving a speech. It's coming. It's coming. Um, it, I think it's, it's, it's a fine episode. It's, it's not a bad episode, but I'm just finding myself bummed out by the saviors being here and the mood of the story.

[00:04:53] And just, I don't want to have to think about whether killing people in their sleep is okay and, uh, cause it's not. And, you know, just like, it's like, uh, people, you know, I said it last time, that episode, but the look on Glenn and Heath's face while they were doing that is kind of how I feel. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:05:16] Oh, and it's interesting cause, um, we're going to be going through the season seven premiere and then we're going to break. And the plan is for me and Rich and Chris to cover the new evil dead movie that's coming out in July. Nice. And then we'll go into the dead city season three. Not much season three.

[00:05:42] Which they've advertised as Maggie and Negan are going to be working together for the first time without any like ulterior motives. And I'm like, okay, so we're going to get to see the scene where Negan beats her husband to death and then they'll be working together right after that. Sparks will fly this season on dead city. Anyway, that's, that's, uh, what's coming up in the future. And I'm, I'm kind of glad to step away from it a little bit while dead city's on.

[00:06:11] Cause you know, uh, Ben and Alex will be back to host that. Yeah. And then, um, come back to it, maybe refreshed and ready for the saviors. Oh yeah. And don't get me wrong. Little though. I like that show. They do an amazing job of covering it. So we're in good hands. And I'm also, I will watch the show cause I've, I'm all caught up and I'm curious to see if Seth Hoffman being the new showrunner will change anything. Cause I'm sure they wanted to change showrunners because they feel like something's not working. So it'll be interesting to see how it changes.

[00:06:41] I think the change of showrunner is, you know, in the walking dead, it's been great successes and great misfires in the walking dead universe. So, um, I mean, great misfires. I only mean one great misfire, which was fear. That's right. One big giant misfire. Yeah. Yeah. But for the main show, it's always been good. I feel like Glenn Zara started strong. Um, then Scott Gimple and then Angela Kang. Yeah. No, absolutely. Um, yeah, I think we're, we'll, we'll, we'll take a summer.

[00:07:11] We'll have dead city. We'll, we'll see what happens. Um, when's Daryl back? Do we know? No, but it's supposed to be this year. So I wouldn't be surprised if it's right after dead city. Yeah. So we may be back, uh, Espanol. You'll have Daryl Dixon Espanol. Yeah. For possibly Daryl's final adventure. Sure. Muy Dixon. Caliente. I don't know. Clearly I've not really learned any more Spanish. I don't know. Burrito.

[00:07:41] All right. Where do we start? Um, I want to start. So I've got five kind of headings. Some of them are going to bleed into one another. Says Lucy describing what every episode of this podcast has ever been, but whatever. Um, Abe and Eugene, because this was the bit I remembered fuck all about going into this episode, I was like, what's up with these guys? Um, so we see the two of them head out. So where their relationship is at is they obviously had this big rupture in their friendship when,

[00:08:11] um, Eugene revealed that he was at it. Like he didn't actually know what he was doing. But since then they seem to have been kind of, um, reconciled. But this is, it reminds me of like a big brother, little brother, where a little brother is coming into his power and big brother is not into it. Big brother is like, what's my role if you're this way now? And we see Eugene. Especially how like, because this zombie that had metal on his head and was giving, uh, Eugene a lot of trouble and could have absolutely killed him.

[00:08:40] And then maybe Abraham actually saved his life and he's still like, I could do it. That's totally little brother energy. Like I could have done that. Yeah. Not really, man. You need a little help sometimes. Okay. Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes you're still going to need me, but I have a little bit of a theory and I think Abraham is also worried in this episode that Eugene's going to make a goal for Rosita. Um, I think he's, I don't think he thinks he'll succeed, but I think he thinks one of the reasons he's doing this glow up is, and it probably is knowing Eugene and his love for Rosita. Wow.

[00:09:10] Yeah, because he kind of does, doesn't he? Or I can't remember. So I think there's a little bit. In the comic they do get together. Yeah. There's a little bit of macho macho here, I think of like, oh, so you're moving in on my girl kind of thing. It's never said. Really? Oh, wow. I didn't get that. I think that's one of the reasons he's suspicious. He's like, I mean, he's watched them bang a lot. So we see the two of them head out and it's, it's a nice reveal, I think, what Eugene has, has in store.

[00:09:36] But there's a lot of banter between the two of them about, you know, Eugene's Tennessee waterfall, talking about how wind blowing through it can be straight up bliss, but it's the man that makes the man, not the haircut. Something Eugene says is so relevant to this episode. He's talking about RPG role playing games such as Dungeons and Dragons, where you allow oneself to be shaped by the environment, acquire skills and flip the script.

[00:10:00] Eugene's actively trying to do that. Rosita and Denise do it. Like that's that Rosita, especially. It really struck me on the second watch through her whole storyline is about acquiring skills. It's about leveling up. I couldn't remember if it was this episode or a later one. I think it must be a later one where she talks about all the things she learned from all the people she met along the way. Boyfriends. I think it's specifically, yeah. Yeah. She reveals that later.

[00:10:29] Rosita's leveling the fuck up and she does it incredibly well. So I think it's really interesting that although Eugene is describing himself, we're actually seeing people around him do that as well. Yeah. And Denise saying to her, you're alone probably for the first time in your life and you're stronger than you think you are seemed to land with her. Yeah.

[00:10:48] So especially knowing what we know from what she says later that she learned all those skills from boyfriends and now she's just gotten dumped and it seems like she's got a fling going with Spencer. Oh yeah. I mean, she's going to learn how to make beef jerky stroking off. What's she going to learn from him? Yeah. But he seems to want it to be more like dinner, you know, like that's what I got out of that, that they're just fucking. But he wants, he's like, can it be more? And she's like, okay, fine. We'll go to dinner.

[00:11:16] But anyway, I think this is about like, I love this line. You're alone probably for the first time in your life and you're stronger than you think you are because maybe Denise is telling her you don't always need a man or something like that. I don't know. She really is. And so Eugene says, you know, he's surviving and adapting and Abraham seems a bit dubious about this, but they arrive at this destination and Abraham wants him to spill the pintos, which I liked.

[00:11:42] And sidebar, anyone in Scotland, there's a really good Mexican deli in Glasgow and Edinburgh called Lupe Pintos. Very good. You get hot sauce, including Jason's favorite Belizean hot sauce. You can acquire that there. I'm not sure I trust your judgment on that, but okay. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it appears to be an old smelting place, an ironmonger, a blacksmith.

[00:12:07] I'm not 100% sure which one of those three that is, but there's somewhere where you can melt metal. Metal for some reason. Abraham, delighted that my friend is some damn fine genuine outside the box thinking, which is what he values from Eugene is those smarts. They have a bit of a tussle about dibs is dibs. And then, yeah, you've described the scene with the very cool metal helmet zombie, which will come back later. Eugene will suggest this to Negan. Oh, that's what he does.

[00:12:35] And he will also make bullets for Negan and the saviors. And he'll be a huge traitor. Amber, I'm telling Amber all this. And then he'll come back and redeem himself by sabotaging all the bullets and blowing up the guns in the saviors hands. But during that time, poor Josh McDermott will suffer greatly during conventions and online. And he will deactivate his Twitter account because everyone is going to be super mean to him. Oh, Josh. Yeah.

[00:13:05] Not good. Eugene Abraham uses the phrase picking up a turd by its clean end, which made me laugh. And says that I couldn't tell if the walker was referred to as Timmy or Jimmy, but Amy down there almost ate your face. Dumbass really made me laugh. But Eugene really stands up to Abraham and says, you've outlived your usefulness to me, which really hurts Abraham who stalks off. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's like, I thought you were the last man on earth, but I was wrong. But you're not. And he's like, ah.

[00:13:36] And then we see, I really liked the way that this gets reconciled, which is Eugene. Again, we kind of assume the worst of him where he basically reveals Abraham's location when he's being held by the saviors. I figured it was a trick. Yeah. The first time I watched, I wasn't sure. That'd be pretty rough. Yeah. That'd be pretty bad. But he uses that opportunity to damn well bite Dwight's dick. I had totally forgotten that. And I don't know how.

[00:14:03] I think I must have just not wanted to remember it because I don't like seeing stuff like that. Guys, it's not Jason's niche, okay? It's not his thing. Stop sending fan art. No one likes it. Maybe it is. I mean, maybe it's because I'm a guy, but it's like, oh no, no. No, I don't want to see that. It felt quite, yeah. I don't know. I was like, is this better or worse than having your face ironed? I'm guessing better, but I don't know.

[00:14:32] Yeah, because then in Fear the Walking Dead, Dwight is impotent the whole time. So I presume this is why. Yeah, he's like, I used to have a dick. I don't anymore. It's so sad. You'd think he would be. I mean. We then see, I think for the last time, the trio of Eugene, Rosita and Abraham together back at Alexandria's safe zone, where Eugene explains he wasn't trying to kill Abraham. And I love the dialogue here where he says, you hear a present good. I was not trying to kill you. I was looking for a moment.

[00:15:01] And Abraham says, you found it. Eugene says, do you apologize for questioning my skills? Abraham says, I apologize for questioning your skills. You know how to bite a dick, Eugene. I mean that with the utmost of respect. Welcome to stage two. And I love Eugene's retort, which is, you don't need to welcome me. I've been here a while. I love to see that character development for them. I didn't even notice he got a haircut until he mentioned it. Probably just because I'm used to him having hair both ways.

[00:15:30] But then, you know, Abraham goes to Sasha, who I was wrong. He didn't immediately move out and move in with Sasha. That was incorrect. He appeals to her to kind of take the relationship. You know, it could be 30 years for his year. That's still too short. Yeah. He's making his choice, right? Yeah. And she seemed to say yes. So it seems like they're together now. It's not going to be 30 years. It's not going to be 30 days. It's going to be 48 hours, guys. So enjoy it while you can. That quick? Yeah. Really? Oh, wow. I didn't realize.

[00:16:00] We are two days to the lineup. Mm-hmm. Oh, oh, oh. Yeah. One of my, I was thinking Sasha died that quick. But no, it's Abraham. No, Abraham. He goes first. The relationship is discontinued when Abraham dies. Yeah, that would do it. So yeah, Abraham and Eugene. And I maintain, I'm interested to know what listeners think. I think there's a subtext here about Rosita. And that thing of where just because you don't want to be with someone doesn't mean you want other people to be with someone. And I think there is just, I don't know.

[00:16:29] I think Abraham is suspicious. Mm-hmm. I mean, if he is and that's his reaction, then it makes me like him even less because it's like, dude, you dumped her. Exactly. You should wish that she'd be, find someone else and be happy. Yep. Unless he's like, I love her too much to want her to be with Eugene. Maybe. Yeah. And his Tennessee waterfall. So that's me on Abraham and Eugene. Did you have stuff around those guys?

[00:16:56] I liked when Eugene said, I've changed, I've adapted, I've become a survivor. And Abraham's like, you keep telling yourself that. And he goes, I've changed, I've adapted, I've become a survivor. I love that. He took him very literally. And then I guess I already said everything I had to say about Rosita. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. I mean, Rosita ties into, I've got one sort of catch all point, which is what's happening at Alexandria Safe Zone.

[00:17:25] And we've touched on it. Rosita and Spencer are in a situation ship. Mm-hmm. And we saw him flirting with her when she, oh no, he was flirting with, Sasha. I think he was sort of flirting with Rosita too at some point. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. I mean, I don't blame him. So we see this kind of Groundhog Day opening with Rick and Morgan. It's a very Rick-light episode. Rick and Morgan discussing the cell. Morgan says it's so that Rick will have options.

[00:17:53] This becomes pivotal in season eight. It takes a long time to pay off, but it does pay off. And I remember thinking at the time when they were building it, I was like, I bet this is going to be for Negan because of where the comics end up. And Morgan said, you know, so we'll have choice next time. Yeah. And it's totally ends up being that.

[00:18:14] It's, it's, I mean, it makes so much sense that if you want to have a society where you don't have to kill all the serious criminals, then you need a jail cell. Yeah. And that's exactly what they use it for. And I felt a little bit critical of Rick being like, what are you doing, man? We just kill them all. Like what, what a nerd. No, that's, that's kind of the energy, but he accepted it.

[00:18:43] You know, he, he let him keep going with it. So that was good. Rick's like, I've met the saviors, man. They're cool. They're cool guys. We see time passing. So I think a good few days pass because we see this image of Carol on the porch with a cigarette with Tobin. We see Rosita and Spencer. We see Daryl getting his bike back with a little carved soldier, which we know from later seasons is made by Dwight. And that will become important.

[00:19:08] Well, we, that was when, um, Dwight first met Daryl and Daryl demanded something from them in exchange for him helping them. And he gave him that little thing. So it was just a reminder of Dwight's existence before he came back into the story. And we should have suspected it because also Carol's there saying, oh, those people stole your bike. Right. And I don't remember how he got his bike back, by the way. Uh, Primo. Primo. Oh, oh, okay. Okay.

[00:19:38] So we should have known at that point that Dwight was back with the saviors. I didn't even catch that back then. And the, or that he'd been killed by them. That would be the other option. That's true. Yes. I think as well, the soldiers become a key plot point during the savior war, um, in terms of how Dwight will communicate with people. Um, I believe. If I went wrong. Um, Carol comes to chat and they smoke together. Um, I think it didn't quite understand the conversation they have. Carol says the people that took them didn't do anything to them,

[00:20:07] but they ended up dead. Yeah. For me, I think, I mean, I think the, what I got out of that is Daryl's like, what do those people do to you? Just sort of checking in with his friend, you know, about what happened. And she goes, they didn't do anything. It is kind of like the vibe of, they're nothing to me. They didn't have any impact. Fuck those guys. We, we dominated. That's it. You know, kind of like that. I think it also, um, what's the word?

[00:20:35] It also kind of cements to her the level that she's gotten to now of like, oh, like people, they didn't, you know, they were just doing what they were doing. They were just soldiers or whatever. And they died anyway. I killed them. Yeah. I think it's, yeah. So we see the food. We see the lake. We see the cell. We see cigarette butts piling up to give the sense of sort of Groundhog Day time passing. And Carol with her rosaries. And that's where the episode starts. So we're in this kind of aftermath.

[00:21:03] Um, other things in the Alexandria safe zone that we kind of infer come at the end of the episode. We see Rosita's taking Eugene's shift at the gates. We see the RV park up behind Sasha, which feels quite foreboding at this point. We see an empty bench swing on the porch without Carol, but with a full ashtray. Morgan looking at the swing kind of thoughtfully.

[00:21:25] Um, and we see people moving weapons, I guess, towards the walls to start protecting against the saviors who they now know are still out there and still active and pretty pissed off. It's good that they're doing stuff. Yeah, I think Denise. They're stepping up. Like you said, you know, everybody's trying to level up now. They're trying to be like, okay, Rick, we'll do what you say. You're right. We need more security. We need more training. We need more strategy planning, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:21:52] And I love my girl Denise, but I think she got them into trouble because I think Dwight and his crew overheard her say about the outpost. And I don't know if they would have definitely known that it was Rick and the gang without Denise saying that. So I'm like, oh. Really? I don't. Do you remember what she said? She was yelling at Rosita and Dara like, you took your lives into your hands when you went to the outpost. I was like, oh, maybe say that quieter. Maybe go like outpost. Yeah. Don't go out. Remember the stabby, stabby.

[00:22:21] Stabby, stabby, sleepy, sleepy. That was you guys. Like Dwight's crew. I'm like, what the fuck? We thought these guys were just ding-dongs. They're like, nah. So yeah, that's kind of where things are at in Alexandria. And that ties in the plot line. The timeline thinks it's been just over a week since the outpost, which I can buy given what we've seen here. And yeah, we spoke a bit about Spencer and Rosita. He wants to make beef jerky stroganoff. Rosita's clearly just not that interested.

[00:22:51] No. She's quite irritable. But for Spencer. She just needed. Well, I mean, who knows? We didn't get anything on it. But from what we know about her, it just seems like it's her habit to get a new boyfriend quickly. But she's not really that into it. And I think Denise reminding her that she's stronger than she thinks she is is probably not good for Spencer if he wants Rosita to be his girlfriend.

[00:23:19] I do think she is. If I remember, she is sad when Spencer dies because she's human. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not black and white. But he's nowhere. He's not a great lover or anything like that of her life. But he also dies in the most annoying. Oh, God. He doesn't redeem himself at the end, does he? It was a cool plot development. But yeah, it's just like, I sort of wanted him to be his better self. Yeah. And he didn't. But it's okay. I mean, not everyone.

[00:23:48] If everyone did that, it might be kind of boring. So did Negan. Negan aligns with us. Negan's like, I really wanted you to be better than this. He's like, I'm right there with you guys. I'm like, do you know what, Negan? For once we're aligned. But I'm like, so yeah, that's the stuff. And I loved when Denise came out and was like, I wasn't listening. I didn't hear you guys really awkwardly. I was like, you heard everything, huh? Yeah. That's not what you say when you didn't hear anything. Yeah. You didn't actually hear anything.

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[00:25:43] I think the other point that's not the kind of Denise and Saviors of it all is Carol in this episode. Where at the end we have this letter voice over from Carol to Tobin. Which I enjoy. But like I have to say it's so extra if you've been dating for like a week to leave this like really like I had to do this. I had to go. I was like whoa this is like full on. Tobin's just like I just want to leave. He could make me cookies and be cool.

[00:26:12] I feel like that note is more to us than Tobin. Yeah. But what it's saying is interesting that she's realized that she was always right. You do have to kill. But what's different is she just doesn't want to anymore. She can't bring herself to do it. So she's the only solution is to leave because she feels like I cannot do what it takes to protect the people I care about. So I'm just going to remove myself from the situation which is interesting.

[00:26:41] One of the best bits about doing the rewatch is that the old website Springfield Springfield which did like scripts for every episode or like use the subtitle files to make text files. It's still up so it's actually quite easy to go back into the script because in later seasons it was harder to get the the scripts for like making notes and things like that. So with this I was able to get Carol's letter in its entirety. Well there's a website that has all the transcripts.

[00:27:10] Is it because I thought Springfield Springfield stopped after season 8? It's not that one. It's a different one. I'll send it to you. I've been using this for 15 years. 12 seasons ago. Whatever. Anyway I get to use Springfield Springfield again so I'm happy. Okay. This podcast is not sponsored by Springfield Springfield because as mentioned the website is defunct. So Carol's letter to Tobin I won't read the whole thing but she says you were right. I knew it when you said it. I wish it didn't have to end not this way.

[00:27:39] It was never my intention to hurt you but it's how it has to be. She makes the key point that they have so much but other people will want that and that will never change. And that you know is the basis of quite a lot of war in the world. Yeah. So she's got a point there. And I always sort of I can't completely argue with that you know. No it's true.

[00:28:02] You want yeah you need you need a military to protect your country so that you can keep your way of life but then also that should be tempered with caring about everybody in the world you know and not using up all the resources and blah blah blah. So much through like voraciousness and greed and want.

[00:28:52] Yeah exactly. And I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. So I think that's a good idea. Yeah. I think that's a good idea. Yeah.

[00:29:21] That's a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. But who does that leave out. Any big players. Just Carol.

[00:29:51] Gabriel. Not really yet is he but. Yeah he's getting there I'd say. He's getting there. Yeah. So I guess the big thing for this episode is the death of Dr. Denise Cloyd. Who's one of my favorite characters. Her whole arc in this episode is is cute.

[00:30:09] If I was being cynical I would say the minute that somebody starts talking about like their childhood and their trauma in the space of one Walking Dead episode the chances of them making it through the episode go down the more you learn about the person. Well they did a pretty good job with because that's kind of what Randy was saying in his voice message.

[00:30:28] I think last episode that when you have a new character because in the episode the same boat when you have a new character who just starts telling you all their backstory and they're probably going to die. But Denise had been around. She actually even faced some challenges like trying to step up to the plate as the only doctor suddenly of the place and coming through great.

[00:30:51] And so I think they probably did a pretty good job of fooling a lot of people into thinking that she was going to be around for a while so that this could come as a shock. You know I think. And Merit Weaver and Corey Hawkins. Yeah. Yeah. I'm always like no that's the guy from the 80s. That's not that's Corey Haim. Merit Weaver and Corey Hawkins were like good names at that point.

[00:31:18] They weren't like it wasn't like casting a major star but I would say they were solid hires at that point. So yeah I think you wanted them to stick around a little longer but sadly not. Yeah they were good. They were. Yeah. They're magnetic to watch on screen both of them I think. Absolutely.

[00:31:38] So Denise has basically got a side quest if we're following the RPG rules here where she wants to go to Edison's Apothecary and Boutique because she remembers it from leaving Washington DC. If it is an apothecary she thinks they will have medications there but people may have overlooked it because it'll look like what Peter and I call a nifty gifty shop which is like candles and stuff. Well it's like why did you not tell Heath or Aaron that? I just didn't. I don't know. Why didn't she tell?

[00:32:08] That's what I want to know. Interesting. Maybe she didn't remember. I don't know. Or maybe it was felt to be too far out but it doesn't seem to be that far out. So she asks Daryl and Rosita to take her. She wanted help. She wants help to do it. Rosita's very like I'm not babysitting her by myself. And then there's this very funny smash cut to the van interior where Daryl fails at driving. Denise mentions that her brother taught her stick. Can you drive stick? Yeah.

[00:32:35] And it seemed to me that the truck wasn't, you only shift gears when you're speeding up to go into the next gear or slowing down. And it was going just a steady speed so it looked almost like he was doing it on purpose just to annoy her. But I don't think that's what was going on. Do you, speaking of on purpose, do you think the tree that blocked the road was deliberate? Do you think that was a saviour thing? I think it could have been either way.

[00:33:05] Yeah. Yeah, because Rosita says something about this happened fast and I'm like. Yeah, actually you're right. Just because of that line I think it probably was meant to trap people. Rosita find booze and she is not taking it to the pantry. Um, but Denise reveals that her parents were drinkers and then we get the, the needle drop of the off-road track being twice as far. But Daryl ain't taking no tracks. Why not? I don't know why not because he's cool.

[00:33:31] I wonder if that's just because of their experience with the road determinists. And he just makes him think of that. For valid reasons for railroad trauma, I will, I will allow that. Yeah. But then he decides after he sort of has a connection with Denise about how their brothers are both violent and he seems to be relaxed a little bit. He's like, okay, we'll take the track now. And I'm like, what, why, why, why did you change your mind? That. I think it's like a mark of respect for Denise. It's like, I trust your judgment. Yeah.

[00:34:01] Which is so wrong. It was wrong. He gets killed. Like, well done, Daryl. It's out in the open. I mean, it really, it probably is a good idea not to be too out in the open, but I guess you also don't want to live your whole life just skulking in shadows. Yeah. Denise asked Rosita who taught her how to fight. We discussed that. And Rosita says a lot of people taught me a lot of things. So there is a gift shop which they enter the apothecary, which smells bad. Daryl asks if they're going to see what Denise had for breakfast, which they will later. And it was oatmeal.

[00:34:31] Yeah, I love that. Ah, I threw up on my glasses. I like how she said it. Just like, ah, I threw up on my glasses. I've done that. It's really not good. It's really bad. It's funny. Because you're just like, oh. And I've also dropped my glasses down a toilet as well. Yeah. It's so debilitating. Honestly. My biggest fear about the zombie apocalypse is being a glasses wearer. Because I'm just like, what if my glasses break? Yeah.

[00:35:01] Yes. All the books in the world. Yeah. And then no glasses. It's so sad. Denise is looking at key rings or key chains. I don't know if you guys call them key chains. We call them key rings. Either, but more chain. I would say key chains. And we see her linger on one that says Dennis, which we'll find out later. Yeah, I just thought she grabbed it because it was close enough to Denise. She's just sharpied on it. Yeah. Denise. Denise.

[00:35:29] I'd completely forgotten about this horrifying sequence where she goes to look for this zombie that they think is stuck. She finds an empty crib, a body on the ground with a leg and a cast, hush, hush, hush, written on the wall. My inference from this is that somebody drowned a baby. Yeah. And because they were afraid there were zombies outside and they drowned the baby and then for some reason wrote hush, hush, hush, hush all over the wall. Bleak. So we would know what she was saying at the time. Um, fuck. Yeah.

[00:35:59] It's so bleak. I mean, what I loved about this whole sequence with Denise and it's in large part because Merritt Weaver is a good actor is she's looking around at the zombie apocalypse with horror. Fresh eyes. Yeah. Fresh eyes. And just sort of really taking it and you can see how it's impacting her. Even before that, just looking around at the destruction and there's probably some bodies.

[00:36:26] And I think there was one zombie that had like a piece of rebar through its face or something like that. And the way that she looked at it, it made me feel like that used to be a person. And now it's got a thing shoved through its head. That's just so gruesome and awful. Whereas before I would have just been a cool, cool effect or just not even noticed. Right. And so it was really, it was really, um, it was good emotional sort of vibe to see it with fresh eyes right along with her. I like that.

[00:36:56] And appreciate how brave she's being alongside that. You know, cause dealing with it. And then she sees that one of like the more fucked up things. Yeah. It's S tier fucked up walking dead thing. Yeah. I literally was thinking to myself, have we seen something this fucking dark in a while? The closest I could think is, I feel like when Michonne and Carl are clearing a house, there might be some dead toddlers. Like there's, there's stuff inferred, but like this is pretty grim. Pretty bad.

[00:37:26] We see Denise sitting outside holding that Dennis Keering and Razita and Daryl come out and I don't know. I didn't love like, Daryl was kind. He says you did well finding this place, but Razita's like, try to tell you, you weren't ready. I'm like, I don't think anyone's ready for what Denise just saw, but. I know. And this is sort of how you, if you decide it's time to go out, then yeah, you're going to have a hard reaction like that, but that's how you get used to it. You have to experience it.

[00:37:54] But I didn't, I was annoyed at it too, but I think it's good. It's a good character thing where not everyone is understanding. Like Rosita, that was sort of what I felt about her for a long time is she's kind of snotty sometimes, you know? She's a mean girl. Yeah, she is. And she improves over time, but. She does. She truly does. And you learn that that's part of her armor and her hurt and her pain. So yeah, Daryl and Denise bond over their older brothers.

[00:38:23] Dennis was her twin. He was older by six minutes. And it sounds like he was a bit of a dick like Merle. Yeah. And he was mentioned in a recent episode, Denise said, you remind me of someone. That's what it was to Daryl. And it turns out it's his brother. It's her brother. Yeah. Who was brave and made her feel safe. So Denise sees a cooler. I noticed at this point that Daryl was wearing the orange backpack from Clear.

[00:38:50] I don't know if it's relevant to the scene, but we were somewhere yesterday and a guy walked past us wearing a backpack with this massive orange cover on it. And I was like, oh, it's the guy. It wasn't. It was just a guy with a backpack. I was reading about this backpack that some fans think it's a cursed reminder of the group's past sins. So the first time we saw it is when Rick drove right past that hitchhiker who was like, help me. And then on the way back, he was eaten by walkers and they took his backpack.

[00:39:20] And then in season four, Glenn has it as the prison falls. And then Terminus gets it, but Rick reclaims it. In this episode, Daryl's using it and then Denise dies. In season eight, Carl has it shortly before he's bitten. Oh, come off it. In season 10, Michonne has it when she meets Virgil. Fucking Virgil. I hate that guy. So it's backpacks cursed.

[00:39:47] Would you rather be stuck in an elevator with Virgil or Negan? Oh, God. I mean, the interesting thing about Virgil is he started off as the worst, but then he had a pretty good couple of episodes after that. So I'd probably pick Virgil. I wouldn't want to be stuck with Negan anywhere. I don't know. Virgil's pretty funny crap for that. It's close. It's close, right? I'm like, oh, I just, I'm imagining his face and he's annoying me. That's true.

[00:40:16] Maybe he has some mushrooms. Yeah. If I'm lucky, he'll drug me with hallucinogenics. Hooray. Or, you know, Negan can show me how to do nut taps. That's another option. Right. You might be trying that on you. Yeah. Nut tap. I'm like, Negan, no. So Denise gets the cooler and kills a walker in this like adrenaline rush. She says, no, don't let me do it. Sort of like Eugene, you know, but she actually manages to do it.

[00:40:41] She pukes on her glasses, but she gets her soda and then she takes a stand. That's for Tara, by the way. Hell yeah. That's what she asked Daryl to get an orange soda for Tara last time. I asked you to come with me because you're brave like my brother and sometimes you actually make me feel safe. And I wanted you here because you're alone probably for the first time in your life. And as we've mentioned earlier, because you think you're stronger than because you're stronger than you think you are, which gives me hope that maybe I can be too.

[00:41:07] And then Denise gets shot through the head with a bolt from Daryl's fucking crossbow. She said, if you don't, if you don't wake thunk up and face your, that's what I loved how she kept talking for a minute. Yeah. Well, that was what would happen, right? Because of electricity in the brain and stuff, right? I don't know. I don't know. I'm not a doctor. Sure. Of that. Of course, in the comics, that's how Abraham is killed.

[00:41:35] So that's Denise inherits that death there. That's right. Yeah. I forgot about that. I think Denise, as I mentioned, I'm pretty sure Denise revealed that they were behind that attack. So that's maybe not great. Oh man, if only they'd shot her a little bit earlier. I know, right? The saviors have Eugene and we see Dwight. I am confused about whether his face would have healed this quickly from the burning, but it's healed. Oh yeah. It's different from the last time we saw him. Should be more fresh. Yeah.

[00:42:06] Wait. Yeah. Well, I mean, last time we saw him, he didn't have it yet. Nope. They were trying to escape. Daryl says he should have killed Dwight. Dwight kind of agrees. Daryl says, um, mentions that he was trying to use the crossbow and was aiming for Daryl, but the kickback got to Denise instead. He actually didn't say he was aiming for Daryl. In my head, that's what he said. But here he just said, she wasn't the one I was aiming for or something like that. So she said she wasn't even the one I was aiming for.

[00:42:32] And that means that it could have been Rosita, but I presume it's probably Daryl, but you just don't know. I think it's Daryl to lay on the guilt. I guess. So Dwight's threat is take them to the Alexandria safe zone or they'll kill Eugene. And as we spoke about earlier, there's this whole stromash. Eugene reveals Abraham, bites Dwight in the dick. There's a huge tussle. Saviors fall back. Daryl goes after Dwight, but Rosita stops him.

[00:42:57] And then this very moody song, Chapel by Nicole Dolanginer, plays. And they rush to rescue Eugene, who's been grazed by a bullet. I, at this point, wrote, they have to leave Denise. They don't leave Denise. Daryl gets Denise's body and later we see him bury her with Carol. And that's how that plays out. So from this, we advance the savior plot because we know that, this sounds like that Friends

[00:43:26] episode, they know that we know that they know that the group is behind the attack, that they're still out there. There's definitely more than just the ones at the outpost and that they're dangerous and they are watching them to an extent. Yeah. And if you were a comic reader, you suspected that this guy was Dwight, but didn't know for sure until this episode. Because in the comic, Dwight has his face burned and his girlfriend is Sherry.

[00:43:56] But in the first episode, they refer to each other as Dee and Honey. Yeah. And here he says, you can call me Dee or Dwight. And he's got the burned face. They're like, ah, yep, that was him. And now he's back with the saviors. And there was always a little bit of Daryl Dwight comparison because there's no Daryl in the comics and Dwight was almost the closest. Yeah. Because in, I think in the comic, they had a cover that showed what looked like a silhouette of Daryl with his crossbow. And that turned out to be Dwight.

[00:44:25] That's how Dwight was introduced that as a tease that Daryl was finally coming to the comics and Robert Kirk was like, ha ha ha. Classic Kirkman. But I don't think he was allowed to do that legally. That would make sense. I think that's what I read. I'm not sure, but yeah. And that is the end of my thorough, oh, no, sorry. We're not supposed to reveal that as the end of my notes for this week. Apart from the usual extras. Well, let's see. I had a few things about that whole sequence.

[00:44:53] I was thinking about how Daryl and Dwight parted and Daryl, didn't he, he saved their lives. He helped them and then they robbed him and abandoned him. Yeah, they did. Yeah. And that was pretty fucked up. And now he's saying to Carol, he should have killed them. And yeah, I'm like, you know, as much as I argue, look, sometimes killing leads to bad things.

[00:45:20] If he, if Daryl had killed Dwight and Sherry here, then he never would have gone over to Fear the Walking Dead. And that would have been better. No, I'm just kidding. Denise might've lived. I don't know. Anyway, you go nuts. That horse would have lived, Daryl. That fucking horse would have lived. So just think about that. Daryl. But anyways, Denise, Denise got killed by the crossbow too. That it was Daryl's crossbow. Mm-hmm.

[00:45:50] So that's just makes it all the harder for poor Daryl. You know, I should have killed them. We shouldn't have gone on the tracks. I should have not left, lost my crossbow. Like just a lot of reasons for him to torture himself with guilt, even though it's not really his fault. I sure do hope nothing bad happens to Daryl in the next week or so that we compound that feeling of guilt and remorse. That would be awesome. That's right. Yeah, man. He's going through so much. So much.

[00:46:19] And I remember when they were filming season seven, but none of it had aired yet. And Daryl was being interviewed or something. And they asked him, so maybe it was at a Walker Stalker. So how are you liking season seven? And he goes, I hate it. It's awful. Or something like that. That's not exactly what you said. It's like I've had literally two legs the whole season. Just being tortured. Have you ever heard that song, Easy Street? Oh, God. It's amazing.

[00:46:48] It's amazing. So what else? When they get to the pharmacy and they get in there and I was reading through my old notes. I don't usually do that, but I did this time. And I had written that there were handprints all over the outside of the pharmacy. And I thought that was maybe just to show that there had been a lot of walkers in the area. And that's one reason why no one had gotten in there yet and gotten all the drugs out.

[00:47:18] But when they do get in and it's just fully stocked and she's like, let me see. You know, you can show me which ones so I'll know which ones to get or whatever. And he goes, we'll just take them all. And I'm like, yeah, that's why I never believed it when like Glenn and Maggie went to the pharmacy and there was still something left. I think somebody would just take every single thing. Yeah. You would just in case. Right? Yeah. Just in case. Especially if you had people, you know. Denise saying, you know, you want to live, you take chances.

[00:47:47] Just talking about basically I'm over, I'm pushing through my fears. That's kind of her character, right? She was afraid of stepping up and being the doctor, but she rose to the occasion. So now I think she's maybe inspired herself to push it even further. Go out outside. Look, maybe that's why. Anyway, she had thought about this pharmacy for a while, but didn't have the courage until now. Of course, she could have told someone else.

[00:48:15] But anyway, so now is the first time she's like proved to herself that she can do more than she thought she could. So now she's trying to push herself even further. And then right in the middle of a speech about overcoming fears and taking risks, she gets killed. Awful. Walking dead. Fucking hell. Like, oh, cool. Yeah. Sweet. Aw, man. That hurts.

[00:48:40] But I still think that, I don't think the writers are going, ha, ha, ha, this will prevent any of our viewers from thinking that they should try anything risky. I think they still do think, yeah, life is short. You never know what can end, but you shouldn't hide away. You should still go out and sometimes it might not work out, but it's still worth the risk or something like that. You know, that's what I take from it. Absolutely.

[00:49:08] Dwight said you pricks set the tone. He meant by killing everyone, right? Yeah. It's the thing. But the saviors that accosted Abraham, Rosita, and Daryl. Is that who it was? Yeah. Or no, Abraham, Sasha, and Daryl. They set the tone. Right? The tone was, yeah. Tone was never good.

[00:49:36] Like the saviors try to blame other people, but I'm like, you're the ones going around picking on people, you fuckers. I totally, if more than anyone, I blame Negan for Denise's death here. If Negan was out of the picture, I think none of this would be happening. And then I'm just really sad to lose Denise because Merritt Weaver's great and she was

[00:50:02] really starting to feel like a character that was integrating and interesting in her own unique way and that I wanted to see more of. And I wanted to look up and see if Merritt Weaver had asked to leave or anything. And no, she knew from the beginning that she'd only be there for a short time within season six. So I suspect that she was added from the start to be a casualty of the saviors. And that's why we were focusing on her to try to get people to care about her so it would feel like a loss.

[00:50:31] Has it been weird doing severance at the same time as this? It's been cool. Yeah. Cause she's, she has a, not a bit part, but like a small part in season two. So yeah. Yeah. We're in, um, episode eight of a 10 season, a 10 episode season and she's had pretty prominent parts in like two of them, but it's, yeah, it's really fun.

[00:50:56] Um, and then last on all of this is I used to, as you guys probably know, pick songs to play during the breaks for each episode. I, that's what got me in trouble. So I don't do it anymore, but it was really fun. And I loved it and I miss it. And when I finally found just the right song, I felt like it really added to the feeling of the episode. And for this one, I found this song. I'd never heard it before. It's called Denise. It's by Clem Snide, whoever that is.

[00:51:23] And the lyrics aren't exactly right for the episode, but they do sort of capture a tone and especially the music, the mood, the mood. And I wish I could play it, but, um, I recommend checking it out. If you're curious, I think you might like it. Denise by Clem Snide. Every time I hear it, it hits me in the feels just because of remembering this character and everything. I would fully have gone through shot through the heart. And you're too late. Even though it's not. We need one shot through the head.

[00:51:53] Shot through the head. And you're too late. Yeah. Sorry, copyright people listening to this. I know it was, I know it was a note perfect rendition, but I promise we weren't breaking copyright. In, uh, in the IMDb dive, um, the map Denise is holding is of Griffin, Georgia. Um, this is the third episode in row in which Carl does not appear. Hmm. Um, Denise's death was an adaptation of Abraham's death.

[00:52:22] He's going to be a foot taller by the time he's back on screen. He's going to be in his twenties. And this episode marks the return of Austin Emilio as Dwight. Austin Emilio, by the way, Dwight, he, what I remember the most about him at Walker Stucker, he's super chill, just like low key and, and cool and kind of quiet. But you know, when the, when somebody new would be cast and they'd start coming to the

[00:52:47] conventions, they'd be in general, pretty gung ho to do panels. And we'd have like games, like we do our version of Pictionary and we'd have one actor on each side and they'd be game for stuff like that. But then over time they'd kind of get bored with it or tired of it, or they'd realize that, Hey, the, the more I'm away from my table signing autographs, the less money I make. So they would be less open to doing it. But Austin Emilio, the whole time he was open, he was game. He's like, yeah, it's fun. I'll do it.

[00:53:17] So he was, he, he, we would always pick him for games and different things like that. Cause yeah, he liked to do it. So that I was looking for that. I'm just looking him up because I, I was like in my head, I'm like, I'm always surprised that he's actually younger than me. I was like, yeah, he was a professional skateboarder. Oh wow. That fits. That was his background. Um, so that may be fits with the chill vibes. Absolutely. He comes off like that. He was in, uh, um, Richard Linklater movie.

[00:53:47] Oh, no way. About baseball players. I can't remember what it was called. It was good though. I always felt like he had a bit of the McConaughey about him. I always thought like the two of them were very like, yeah, vibey. Um, for your timeline, the day is day 616 of the zombie apocalypse. It is one month to Carl's death and it is two days to the lineup and we're nine days out from the outpost. So yeah, right in the middle of it. 48 hours.

[00:54:15] Only on The Walking Dead would a cool, interesting character get murdered in the middle of a speech about how we should overcome our fears and take risks. Only on The Walking Dead would you cheer for Eugene biting down on a D. I did not cheer.

[00:54:34] You hear that?

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[00:55:40] Let's go! Get ready for a new case. We're gonna crack this case and prove we're the greatest partners of all time! New friends. You are... Gailie Desnake. And your last name? Desnake. Dream team. New habitats. Zootopia has a secret reptile population. You can watch the record-breaking phenomenon at home. You're clearly working at it. Zootopia 2. Now available on Disney Plus Rated PG. Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now.

[00:56:10] How about a creamy mocha frappuccino drink? Or a sweet vanilla? Smooth caramel maybe? Or white chocolate mocha? Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries. Alright, let's get into some Listermoans, Grounds and Grunts. Alrighty, first up we have Andy Fisher who says, I ain't following no train tracks. Get on the track, Andy. Right, right, Andy. It will take twice as long. Twice as far.

[00:56:40] Yeah, it's twice as far. Steve Brown rode in. What the heck? What is he riding in? I know. Steve. He said he might not have time to call this week. But he says, The most shocking moment for me happens this episode. That moment when Denise is killed by Dwight was the most shocking moment for me. I figured that was it and it wasn't the dick. Not just because Tara will not see her again. That is tragic because the community lost a great counselor. She diagnosed and told Daryl his issues and she could have helped others through pain and trauma.

[00:57:10] That is such a good point. And it's interesting to see a counselor talk to these people who've been through so much. As we know from The Last of Us, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would have wanted to see more of that. To see what other kind of talks people would have had with Denise when she started feeling more comfortable in her counselor role or whatever. But nope. Absolutely. Billy Thompson says, Hello, hello. Hope you guys are well. I am Billy. Thanks for asking. Why?

[00:57:40] What a ridiculous question. Like Rick couldn't answer that question himself. He was a cop before. Surely he would understand. Like he hasn't already thought about what he might have to do if maybe one of his inner circle goes off the rails. Good point. Honestly, I just don't get that encounter. Was it just to show Rick's still not quite back to his proper self yet? Yeah. I think so. He should be thanking Morgan. Exactly. I didn't realize it was this early on in the series that Carol starts to really struggle with death slash killing.

[00:58:05] And I found it so interesting on last week's episode when you guys delved deep into the struggle and hearing Robin's thoughts and experience going through something similar. I really appreciate her sharing that. Such a great guest. Thank you. Nice. I agree, Billy. Honestly, such a stupid idea letting Denise go with them to ID the meds just to take them all anyway. That's a good point. Isn't she currently the only doctor, if that, at Alexandria? Survival is still the main objective here, guys. Come on. Protect doctors at all costs. I get it. It's good for her to learn how to deal with walkers, etc.

[00:58:33] But maybe when she has a capable enough understudy or something. But honestly, it's so sad to lose Denise. I really did enjoy her character and her relationship with Tara. It's a duo I would have liked to have their own episode maybe if she lived and eventually we got to see their relationship blossom further. It would have been a great little episode, if only. God, I hate Dwight. You have to admit, though, he looks a lot cooler with the burnt face. But I'm so happy Eugene bit the shit out of his dick. Like, come on. It wasn't just one bite. He was clenching onto that fucker for a while. Anyway, I actually really enjoyed this episode.

[00:59:03] I love when a group of characters go out looting and learn more about each other. Can't wait to hear everyone's thoughts on this. Thanks, guys. Bye. Thanks, Billy. Yeah, Josh McDermott said in an interview that Eugene was purposefully holding back a little because he just wanted to be nice. No, I'm just kidding. Nice. Yeah, some good points there. Especially the part about she said she wanted to go ID the meds and then Daryl just took them all anyway.

[00:59:32] Maybe he should have said he was going to do that. Yeah, maybe like, we really don't need you to. Like, we will just take everything. I'm just going to take them all. What a way to make her feel just a little bit more useless. I know. That would be funny if she would have said, oh, you're just going to take them all? Why the fuck did I come then? Yeah. The fuck, guys? The fuck? Matt King says, so it's finally this episode with a few very notable moments.

[00:59:58] Obviously very sad to see Denise impersonate King Harold in 1066 killed with an arrow in the eye. You know about King Harold? I did when he mentioned that. I was like, oh, yeah, he did get killed with an arrow in the eye. But the highlight slash low light was watching Eugene dining out on Dwight's meat and two veg. Do you say that in? No. So, like, British food is usually. Yeah, okay, good. Just, you know, you told me about dingleberries. I'll teach you about meat and two veg.

[01:00:27] It's a give and take. That's how we are around here. We share. Dwight was also known as D. He certainly isn't Big D after this. Sad that he's no D. Sad that the scenes between Eugene and Abraham may be among their last together. You could see at times in this episode, at least one of them must have been close to bursting into laughter. That's funny. Well done to Morgan for completing his prison build on record time.

[01:00:56] Could do with him in the real world now to build more. Oh, interesting. Really? As he said to Rick, it will give them more choices next time. Yes. Yeah. With all the usual Negan negativity in the podcast for season six, episode 13, I don't think anyone argues that Negan and the saviors are the good guys. Some people do argue that. But anyway, but when you look at these events so far that we've seen Daryl killing a whole savior's patrol group with a bazooka. Yeah, they were. It was killer be killed.

[01:01:22] Rick's cowardly nighttime attack on the outpost, killing people in their sleep, blowing up Paula's group and the reinforcements. They were going to be killed by Paula's group. I think to taking out most of Dwight's team on the rail tracks. After this catalog of attacks on the saviors, Negan would almost certainly have good reason to feel justified in some payback against this mysterious and violent group led by Rick, leading Glenn and Abe to meeting Lucille. Negan's going around terrorizing people.

[01:01:50] If he doesn't think he's going to get some reaction to that, he's delusional. It was only a matter of time before somebody fought back. They had every reason to be worried about Rick and his group after how they had been attacked so far. All this stuff about the saviors would eventually find Alexandria, so need to exterminate them first. They had gone five seasons without meeting them. Yeah, but, you know, they're in the area. They're expanding their territory, so you never know.

[01:02:22] But you're right. Maybe they never would have found him. Who knows? Two more episodes then, and then season seven. Dun, dun, dun. All right. Thank you, Matt. Here is a call from Randy. Hey, Negan and Negan and potential surprise guest host Negan. Hi, Negan. It's your pal, Negan. Hi, Negan. It's like Barbie.

[01:02:47] I know it's not actually Daryl's fault, but it's kind of ridiculous how often he's inadvertently responsible for other characters' deaths. Dwight is aiming for Daryl, but Denise gets killed instead. Daryl punches Negan, and Glenn pays the price. Merle gets himself killed, kind of trying to help Daryl. Daryl gets distracted by a dog at a funeral home. Then he loses Beth, and she eventually dies.

[01:03:15] And then Daryl himself says that if he had kept looking for the governor, Herschel might still be alive. So it's no wonder Maggie took her son Herschel and was like, we're moving to New York. I don't want you around, Daryl. You could even argue that Daryl rocket-launchering those saviors and being all for taking on the boogeymen saviors ultimately led to Abraham's death.

[01:03:41] But all of this to say that during this rewatch, I'm better understanding why Daryl grows quieter and more isolated in the later seasons. Whether the blame is fair or not, he carries a lot of guilt and clearly wants to avoid his actions having any negative impacts on the people around him. So he goes out and isolates himself.

[01:04:09] Only other thought I had about this episode in this time period is I kind of thought Rosita and Daryl might become a thing, but it doesn't happen. I'm still Team Connie, but, you know. Well, bye. Bye. Can we get Randy on for a rewatch app? Has he booked one in? I asked him if he wanted to do one, and he said no. So, I mean, no, I think when I asked him, he was too busy, but I'll ask him again. Yeah, that'd be awesome.

[01:04:38] The Heineken thing cracked me up. It really made me think of the Barbie movie. I think some of those that you mentioned, I'm already forgetting what they were, but they're kind of like those things where you just, something led to something else, but it was really just an accident. Or, you know, you never could have predicted that would happen. Like, not some kind of negligence or bad move on Daryl's part.

[01:05:04] But I think definitely, at least when he punched Negan in the face and that got Glenn killed, he carried that guilt with him for the rest of his life. I read a really interesting Quora article about that, where someone in the comments, I think it was Quora, had a really compelling argument that Negan would have killed Glenn anyway. I must find it, because I was like, whoa, that's actually blown my mind.

[01:05:30] Like, they felt that Abraham was the wrong choice because it didn't upset the full group in the way that someone else would have. I'm really paraphrasing this argument very poorly. I don't buy it. Well, I'm going to send you it, because I was like, and then I read it, and I was like, holy shit, that's actually quite interesting. But I do think the point, I mean, at least without having read this article yet, that the point was to give Daryl something to feel guilty about.

[01:05:58] I think that's why, because in the comic, it's only Glenn that dies, for people who didn't know that. But so in the show, they kind of faked us out with Abraham. And then I feel like that was going to be it, because they kept talking about how they would only do one person. But maybe you're right, like the point of killing someone from the saviour's point of view is to have this huge impact on the group. And if people didn't care about Abraham, then he'd know that didn't do the trick.

[01:06:24] Yeah, I'm really, I'm like trying to, I'll look it up because I thought it was interesting. I don't know that I necessarily fully am like, oh yeah, that's definitely the case. But I thought it was an interesting argument that like, oh, actually, it was always going to be, yeah, hang on, I'll send you a link to it. Just one. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. But also, Randy, thinking about more, I forgot all the things that you mentioned.

[01:06:46] But for this one in particular, this episode, I think Daryl, like it was in my head too that Dwight was definitely aiming at Daryl. But he just says, I wasn't actually aiming at Denise. So it could have been Daryl or Rosita. But I think the main reason Daryl would feel guilty about this is because he didn't kill Dwight and Sherry when he had the chance. And also because it was his crossbow that was used and Dwight didn't know how to do it right.

[01:07:13] So it kicked off and hit the wrong person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, guilt. Guilt, baby. Sorry. Rinaldi Khalid says twice as far sorry I said Khalid that's not right Rinaldi Khalid says twice as far is a good episode I ranked it 84 out of 177 in my Walking Dead rankings middle of the pack episode due to some small gripes that fight between Dwight's saviour group and our beloved characters was really lacklustre

[01:07:42] but overall the episode was entertaining and heartbreaking at the same time Dwight reappearing with half a face aiming to kill Daryl but hitting Denise with that arrow was shocking as someone who read the comics and knew Dwight killed Abraham when he was with Eugene in the same manner Denise was killed I liked how the show brought back Dwight in a way I didn't expect Dwight truly lives up to Aaron Eckert's Harvey two-faced dent in the film The Dark Knight similar to Harvey Dwight goes from fighting for the little guy in his first appearance to being the big bad

[01:08:10] murdering bully with two faces and wow did he just chew up the scenery I know this was an annoying trait of the saviours but I find it hilarious no one else has to die we try to start with just one you know maximum impact to get your point across come on what's your name Rosita what do you want well Rosita Denise will be missed I don't normally I normally don't get upset by deaths in the show because the title is The Walking Dead but Denise was a gentle soul she didn't deserve to die not in such a brutal way by Daryl's own crossbow

[01:08:40] poor Tara wait a minute why didn't Rosita and Daryl tell Denise no you can't leave Alexandria Rosita trained Jesse aka Unnecessary in combat slash survival inside Alexandria and could have done the same with Denise it was so stupid letting Denise leave the safety of the walls true um sorry I must have gotten carried away R.I.P. Denise Carol is running away because the writers want to give Negan and the saviours a fighting chance if she found out Dwight almost killed Daryl in an attempt to kill him then Carol would defeat the saviours all by herself

[01:09:10] and there would be no Negan lineup two episodes from now but alas Carol is too much of a cheat code for Rick's side so the writers make her run that's funny I love that I love that empowered reading of Carol there yeah and I like the two-faced thing too I hadn't thought about that before that's interesting Dwight is two-faced yeah because he becomes a hero again when you know in Fear of the Walking Dead okay Rachel Teal Edwards who hates Dwight says ah twice as far how do I hate thee let me count the ways first of all the idea that Daryl would not know

[01:09:40] how to drive a stick shift is absolutely absurd he rides a freaking motorcycle he's been driving a manual transmission all his life not to mention he's Daryl Dixon I mean that's the best argument right there yeah I mean he'd have driven a truck come on there's no way he didn't learn to drive a stick in a beat up truck like this when he was like 12 second of all Eugene is being an ass to tell the person who got you this far that his services are no longer required is unhinged Eugene is in one major walker battle and patrols for two months and now he can

[01:10:10] make it on his own does he have no concept of teamwork of having each other's backs just because you can defend yourself now doesn't mean you don't need anyone and then he demands an apology I did totally yeah I agree with you but I also it's interesting to me that it felt like karma for Abraham who had just sort of treated Rosita similarly but I would argue even worse and Eugene was there for that so I wonder if that was in his head a little bit he was she says I did totally forget about the dick biting

[01:10:39] but it wasn't enough for me to forgive him for being a twat I guess Abe is a better person than I I think that's all fair she goes on third of all Rosita is a cold bitch to Denise quote I tried to tell you you weren't ready okay how exactly does one prepare for this world Rosita is it really possible to be ready to see a toddler's foot sticking out of a tub of blood instead of being sympathetic or encouraging she treated Denise like a child for behaving in a very human way after seeing something horrific that's a really good point

[01:11:09] fourth of all Carol decides to leave it's the start of this arc for her where she leaves everyone behind to live alone right outside the kingdom I remember finding the whole storyline silly originally so we'll see if my opinion changes at all this time around I am however super excited to see the kingdom again we won't see that for a while because dead city comes first but I'm excited for it too once we finally get there Denise is the only good thing in an episode of shit she has such a major episode going outside the walls finding a ton of meds for the group

[01:11:39] opening up about her past finding a fucking crush killing a walker giving Daryl and Rosita a piece of her mind only to be unnecessarily murdered by a fuckwit fucking Dwight he's a coward and he's weak physically and in character he's spineless he's cocky but has absolutely no reason to be he's Negan's henchman but Negan is fucking his wife because they were too cowardly to take Daryl's motorcycle and just hit the road and now even with twice as many men Dwight can't dominate our people

[01:12:08] he kills the purest soul and then laughs and jokes about it he calls Rosita darling that's enough by itself to make me want to punch him I'm looking forward to The Cell where we get to watch Daryl show Dwight up close what it means to be a good man in the face of torture and threats of a violent painful death Daryl maintains his character integrity unflinching courage and strength all the things Dwight could only dream of plus we get to see that fucker's face

[01:12:38] get burned off I think anyway I fucking hate him oh man I threw up on my glasses that's how I feel about this whole episode Denise R.I.P. we adore you I pretty much agree with everything she's saying about Dwight and I think it's good as I've always said to have different types of characters and he seems like a like a real person might behave yeah I think I don't I'm torn I don't have

[01:13:08] as much antipathy towards him I think oh I don't know I think he and there's a there's a particular kind of torture that he and Sherry live through that is just something that neither show really deals with in a particularly nuanced way yeah I don't know I don't think I'm in a space to be as

[01:13:47] if someone like Negan took my wife as his own bride and iron to my face I would never be in a position to let that happen I would die first you know and then be his henchman fuck no I'd die first I think we all we all want to think you all you all want to think everybody wants to think that I'm I mean I I don't know man I just I'd go jump off a roof or something before I'd let that happen to myself yeah that's

[01:14:17] what I think yeah I don't think I'd be in that position yeah sometimes you just know yeah maybe maybe okay here's Becca from Ohio I think Becca might be first time caller let's

[01:15:00] see like him as a person I don't like his choices I don't like the things that he's done to the group but I in my rewatches I generally really like the Negan era but I will say I've never actually watched episode by episode until now for the past about well for season five and six I've been watching along with the rewatch podcast that you guys are doing and I think it's changing the

[01:15:30] show a little bit for me I enjoy watching it kind of in a different way and so I'm a little nervous that that's going to change my thoughts on season seven and eight because I've only ever binged it before and I thought that I loved those seasons but I guess we'll I guess we'll find out as we go um I also wanted to address your question last time I called in about being a podcaster I'm definitely not I am a third grade teacher but I hope my call quality stays okay for you

[01:15:59] guys um thanks for taking my call bye yeah I'm sorry now as as she started talking I'm like oh yeah the one with a good call quality the person with amazing production values yeah so good um yeah oh wow like yeah I think I don't know if this is what you meant but it sounded like you're saying oh I hope they don't make me hate Negan or something because that would just be a drag like thinking he's charismatic and

[01:16:28] enjoyable to watch but not thinking he's a good person is I think where probably the majority of the walking dead fandom is and I would even consider myself in that camp honestly um but I do tend to dwell on the not a good person part and um man if I I would honestly say if we're getting into season seven and I'm doing that and you find yourself not liking it as much you should stop listening to

[01:16:57] the podcast I don't want to make the show worse for anyone that's not what we're here for so and also if you um call in and add your two cents um if you are still listening that would actually probably help too so uh yeah because I really don't want to like change anybody's opinion for the worse that would just suck or do we who's to say no I don't want to do

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[01:18:55] it get started at redfin.com own the dream I'm up next with Amber Lovel who says I was so confused at the beginning of the episode Amber hard same because exactly what you're about to say I thought my internet was liking or my Netflix was glitching I kept thinking is she wearing a different color top so Amber we are of a mind here the repetitions of the scenes in the cold open made me wildly uncomfortable it felt ominous I guess we're supposed to feel like Alexandria is settling into a new

[01:19:25] normal more people are helping with the watches father Gabriel is armed Morgan is making his prison we have Carol smoking a ton and Daryl has his bike back Rosita's hooking up with Spencer and finally we have both Eugene and Denise trying to be more involved in the hands-on activities of providing and contributing to the community Eugene is so smart and yet so dumb I've known a few people like him that just say facts and honesty without any regards for how hurtful their comments are I understand that he wants to become a fighter and be less reliant on others to

[01:19:55] protect him I also think that Abraham is a bit of a dick sometimes but what Eugene said about Abraham outliving his usefulness was uncalled for the beginning of their fight was witty and sharp I understand Eugene doesn't want to be coddled but he needs some tact he's not in a video game he can die anytime I'm glad he's done cowering the corner and I'm glad he's trying to toughen up Abraham is right he needs to hold on to that logical brain so Denise Daryl and Rosita off to find medications what an interesting trio I'm shocked Daryl didn't know how

[01:20:24] to drive a stick and I applauded Denise for her restraint and telling him he was doing it wrong I really thought something bad was going to happen when they separated at the tracks it was definitely foreshadowing the apothecary was so sad I thought that a little toddler walker was going to come out and bite Denise but the reality was so much sadder I know I don't like zombie babies so I'm glad we didn't see that yeah I know why Denise was so set on checking that cooler but seriously how foolish did anyone else notice she pulls it actually pulls it a six pack takes one out then it's holding the single

[01:20:54] orange soda and a three pack where did the other two go she just drank them really quickly she said I only need this one yeah and I'm like why don't you bring Tara six of them why because there was only one only one was soda the other five were something weird oh really or something yeah as soon as Denise started her emotional speech I knew she was done I hope Daryl and Rosita take her words to heart I want Daryl as a big brother I want Daryl as a big brother he plays that role so well and Rosita needs to believe in

[01:21:23] herself as a strong and independent woman god damn it Dwight at least the bolt went straight into her eyes so she won't become she won't become a walker RIP Denise thank goodness for Eugene's quick wit there and really he just bites Dwight in the Johnson what a horrible but smart move and get shot in the process I think it's funny the saviors just retreat and run off but I wish Daryl had gone after them they're going to come back to haunt us again I just know it poor Daryl burying someone else after promising to keep them alive it wasn't his fault but I know he's

[01:21:53] internalizing it all and probably feeling responsible Carol's actions are really starting to take a toll on her mental health however I feel like running off is the worst possible move I assume they will go after her and this will cause another bad thing to happen too bad there isn't a psychiatrist for her to process her trauma with crying face overall this was a fantastic episode despite the sadness of losing Denise I think this is one of my favorite episodes to date it's been a long time since we've seen Daryl build an emotional attachment to anything that's not his bike crossboat or Carol if I

[01:22:23] didn't know so much about the end of the show I would assume it's his death coming up next but he has plot armor thank goodness I love him only on the walking dead would you fight a zombie for a blue cooler without knowing what's inside at first only on the walking dead would you see a person give a big giving a big motivational speech and know their death is imminent well I know that thing is just around the corner I'm scared to watch it but I am excited to finally watch the episode that broke the internet it's what two episodes away three no thank you just kidding stay tuned for my entirely unhinged

[01:22:53] feedback I hope everyone is well and take care thanks Amber yeah two more this season and then but it's well yeah I don't want to give anything away but it's coming up soon but um about Daryl building an emotional attachment yeah during the rewatch it's really hitting me how little Daryl has had to do since all his stuff with Beth and um and I'm glad that he will have more to do uh in seven eight but particularly

[01:23:22] when Angela Kang comes in then he really gets his due and then of course on his own series which I think Amber watched I can't remember though but I think she's already seen like the Daryl show oh interesting way in I could be wrong about that but that's what I thought she said okay here's Carly hi Jason and Lucy it's Carly and Santa Fe and uh I'm so bummed I missed last week I that that episode was just so so good I loved uh I can't remember the character's name but

[01:23:51] the actor is Alicia something and she was just so great uh representing everything that Carol is afraid of becoming um and then uh for this week's episode twice as far I mean man Denise where why why does she have to go so soon she um I love that she was just about to give Rosita and Daryl some some you

[01:24:21] know some therapy perspective um and uh you know truly taken out at her peak moment um but that's that's the walking dead yep uh and then I wonder what you think about Morgan at the end I mean I was I couldn't tell if he was smiling at Carol's empty swing I loved that whole piece of it too showing the morning routine of

[01:24:50] everyone um uh you know I uh now you not I'm I'm very very appreciative of boring morning routines it's my favorite thing um so it's nice to see that they had that for at least a little bit in the zombie apocalypse but at the end what did you think Morgan was thinking about like was he I wonder if he was like happy for Carol or

[01:25:20] just like happy that Carol was saw his point about not killing you know like that they have some shared experience you know and reaction to all the killing they've had to do uh or or if there was something else going on so anyway don't give it amazing any thoughts on that I think I find that a really hard scene to read like because he's kind of got what she

[01:25:49] wants she doesn't want to kill anyone anymore that's why I don't know there's something Morgan can be quite a creepy dude yeah I I didn't get it because we were hearing Carol's letter to Tobin so we understood why she left but unless Morgan somehow intercepted that I don't see how he could know that maybe he's like I wonder if she's off killing yeah yeah like how would he know that she decided oh I don't want to kill

[01:26:18] anymore so I'm leaving like that that is what it seemed like but I don't see how he could know that so it was weird I didn't I didn't totally unless she wrote the letter to no we do we know it was to Morgan PS can you please pass this along to Morgan yeah PS hi Morgan all right Dylan from Ontario says hey there Jason Lucy and whomever else you have on this time around I hope I made it in time I'm Dylan from Windsor Ontario Canada however I recently moved to coastal rainforest BC British Columbia oh my god

[01:26:48] Dylan do you live near Haida Gwai I have so many questions have you been to the Great Bear Rainforest this is like my dream anyway thank you for writing and just excited he says apologies in advance if this is a long one but it's my first one to you so embrace the chaos first let me begin by saying I'm forever grateful for this podcast so if there's a minute of time before we get into the episode review I'd like to summarize when and how I got involved with this podcast it was around Christmas of 2012 I was about 19 in the mall with my then girlfriend looking

[01:27:17] for gifts I'd thought that the Walking Dead volume three safety behind bars would be a good gift for my little sister if you know the comics well you know that there couldn't have possibly been a more horrible volume to give to a youngin I mean there if is the one with Michonne and the governor then yeah I mean there's a lot of other stuff too though no safety behind bars is pedophile inmate at the prison I think yeah yeah or Billy and Bobby or whatever their names are yeah yeah yeah yeah so with that I read it instead and was hooked

[01:27:46] instantly I went back to the mall and grabbed every volume available and continued on with my new found hobby of comic books my then girlfriend convinced me that it was the perfect time to hop on the show which had just started its third season to which I also hooked like a hungry fish my little sister did not receive a gift that year during the first two episodes of the third season I found myself listening to Chris Chris and other Jason on the talking dead podcast to which I immediately clicked on this podcast to jump in right after I think the only reason it showed them first

[01:28:16] was because myself and those fellas are only four hours apart from each other suffice to say both podcasts were my very first at my introduction to podcasting all around cool so with that I cannot thank you all enough for what you do well thanks man I mean anybody who listens to Chris and Jason I can't blame them they're great I recommend them and Chris you just heard on this podcast I don't know if you know Lucy but I published the Mandalorian review that me and Chris and Rich did on

[01:28:46] this feed too oh did you amazing yeah just for a bonus he goes on I always find this show especially the first three seasons to be comforting bringing me back to a time that felt warm and right despite the relationship that fizzled out I don't dwell on that though as my love for the show outweighs my poo-pooed past I stopped my watching halfway through season 10 because life did life things so I'm looking forward to the rest of the rewatch here oh good yeah that's a good place to jump back in I think

[01:29:14] yeah my love for zombies stems far past this show and comic though but that's a story for another time okay that's enough the sentimental jazz Renee I absolutely love your coverage keep firing good lady you're like the good friend of my mom who says something's wrong with that child when referring to me chasing squirrels in the yard while in zombie mode amazing I can picture that so powerful you are you're great so thank you as well eeny meeny miny moe let's get on with the fucking show

[01:29:43] coral and enid arguing like they've been married for 30 years always gets me wait a minute is this this is the wrong episode wow all that preamble and I think this is about an episode yeah this is next week next week okay I'm gonna leave this in because I read it Dylan and I'll read the next half of your email next time so stay tuned everybody Dylan if you want to write in with any further information about the Great Bear Rainforest or

[01:30:13] Haida Gwaii please do I really want to go there planning a trip want to know everything it's like a very cool bit of ecology in the Pacific Northwest coast of Canada I've been to British Columbia it was beautiful they have golden bear anyway sorry getting off topic also I'm excited that Stephen Aug is coming up because then I can tell you guys what he was like at Walker Stucker he what a fucking character Stephen Aug is I'm excited okay one more call and it is

[01:30:42] from the very same person you mentioned Renee hi Jason and Lucy and whomever is podcasting with you guys first I just want to say Jason that your ability to be vulnerable is one of the reasons I love you and podcasting because so much it's not just the women who are willing to be open and vulnerable you and the men are too and I think that is so real and honestly I think that's one of the reasons you struggle with Rick sometimes you see Rick

[01:31:11] as someone who shows vulnerability and he absolutely does I think Rick to me is two sides of the same horn he's vulnerable when he needs to be and he's gangsta when he needs to be that's one of the things I love most about him now you and I disagree about Ricky Dicky quite a bit but that's okay I think it all comes down to lived experiences now for me with Morgan building a jail I feel like when Rick asked him why Rick didn't argue with Morgan

[01:31:41] and he didn't try to stop him to me that told me a lot about who Rick is Rick understands that the world they're living in isn't always black and white he knows that sometimes difficult decisions have to be made to keep people alive but he also respects the fact that other people may see things differently even when Rick doesn't agree with someone he's willing to give their way a chance if he thinks it might help the group that's one of the reasons I admire him he's practical

[01:32:10] I think Rick was quite snide to Morgan I don't think he did agree about the cell it's unusual for me to disagree with Renee he didn't stop him but I don't think I think it was more of a like alright if you want to I'm not going to be using it yeah and my reading of that is as I've always said that Rick is not this perfect person who always does the right thing throughout the whole story of The Walking Dead he has a story arc and he

[01:32:40] starts off as this clean cut cop who cares about everyone then he goes through some really really dark things gets PTSD turns into the kind of person that doesn't care about people outside of his own group and then he comes back from it but Renee you seem to think that he's just like everything he does is right all the time that's what it sounds like you're saying and you know like you said that we if that is what you're saying that we just don't have the same opinion and that's totally fine

[01:33:09] totally fine so let me continue yeah I just think in this particular case as well he was just a bit snagged Morgan I would argue yeah yeah yeah I'm interested to hear well I think so yeah it's not so stubborn that he believes his way is the only way Rick has dealt with the governor who killed Herschel and listen Herschel's death hit me harder than Glenn's death Maggie's reaction to Glenn's death absolutely broke my heart and Herschel but Herschel death it still gets me every time

[01:33:39] it does and Rick has dealt with robbers killers rapists cannibals corrupt police officers and people who kill just because they can so I completely understand here's we have to come for them before they come for us mentality again lived experiences that's what it comes down to now Negan he killed a 16 year old boy now if I'm Rick I'm looking at my 16 year old son and I'm looking at my baby and everybody

[01:34:09] that I love Negan's people tried to kill Daryl Rosita and Abraham they rolled up demanding everything they had and you know that they were prepared to kill them and they wanted Gregory's head on a platter which you know what I don't care it could have went on I can't stand him that does not sound like somebody who's interested in having a reasonable conversation to me so yes if my life and my children's life are on the line I am making moves I'm going in there and I'm putting

[01:34:39] a knife through everybody's skull period because they're all complicit and speaking of making moves if I was unjustified and Porsche Dick put his hands on my children he can touch me all he want you know what I'm saying but baby he would have been a dead son of a gun I don't care how good of a surgeon he was Alexandria found Denise and after Denise they found Sadiq the community still survived hey ain't no law and order you a dead son of a gun rest in peace to Denise by the way she was

[01:35:08] a genuinely good person and I love her speech to Daryl and Rosita now let's talk about Negan and the Saviors the way they ruled through fear intimidation and violence reminded me of the past the tactics that people use to control other people using fear to force people to work for you against their will is tyranny at its best period and while some of the Saviors may have felt trapped a lot of them willingly participated

[01:36:06] that's why a savior at one point and by I feel like by your logic if it's okay for Rick to go into a savior compound and kill a bunch of them in their sleep without knowing anything about any of them personally Eugene could have very well been one of those guys that Rick killed in his sleep so but now you're saying protect Eugene Gene at all costs so I'm curious how those two could fit together no I mean I just don't I don't like the argument

[01:36:35] that it's okay to kill people in their sleep I just think that it's not I don't like the morality of it but also I don't think it's smart because it leads to war and you know Glenn's death and it's just bad for everyone's morale and I don't know man that I have to argue against that that's all I'm not saying I don't want to hear the argument what if it led to Gregory's death

[01:37:04] if what led to Gregory's death like the killing people in their sleep and stuff yeah yeah yeah I mean that's when I say it that's me trying to look at where this thing that I already don't like what the ramifications of it were but it's not really about Glenn's death for me it's more about just not liking

[01:37:34] that they did it but I don't really know what the circumstances the people in that compound were and that's why it just occurred to me oh yeah well Eugene could have very well just been one of them you know he was a savior you never know true and never count out the underdog period

[01:38:04] Eugene was like Abraham put some respect on my name and like Carol said once they survive one threat then there's another one then there's another one that's why I understand it before and I'll say it again I will ride with Rick Grimes until the wheels fall off make no mistake now Rick has never met anyone as formidable as Negan and his crew but Negan and his

[01:38:34] crew has never met anyone as formidable as Rick period and baby listen Rosita is exactly who she thinks she is she is definitely that girl peace and love bye bye your remark about Gregory made my day Renee that really made me laugh you were like and then they did this and then they actually don't care about him they could behead him

[01:39:03] I just the thing about the cell is important too because you know the guy who led his people to kill people in their sleep is not the same man as the man who let those same people's leader live and brought in more of them into his own group like he changed the savior war changed Rick into a person that I much more respect by the end of that those are the opposite you know killing the soldiers in their

[01:39:33] sleep bringing them into your own group and keeping the leader in the cell that's not the same person so I feel like if you I know you wouldn't agree Renee but I

[01:40:10] all right that is our show episode 706 thanks so much for listening everybody as always next episode will be The Walking Dead season 6 episode 15 east if you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it Renee you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com and while you're there please check out our other podcast over on our Handmaid's Tale slash The Testaments podcast we had an interview with The Testaments showrunner Bruce Miller who's

[01:40:40] super enthusiastic about it and really fun to talk to and willing to answer questions that I that's so cool it's fun all right that is our show thanks for listening don't get bit Becca Loeb have you ever wondered why Reese Witherspoon founded Hello Sunshine or where Kevin O'Leary got his start or even how Alex Earle became the most

[01:41:10] accessible founder to someone who may not even consider this space enter the founder mindset the new podcast from Harvard Business School Foundry hosted by me Reza Satchu as a leading educator in entrepreneurship I've built multiple high-profile companies and mentored thousands of students and founders through the realities of starting and scaling ventures and with the founder mindset I'm sharing those lessons with you by sitting down with world-class entrepreneurs including Witherspoon O'Leary

[01:41:39] and Earl plus Tim Ferriss and many more to break down exactly how they commit decide and build for impact these aren't surface level interviews each episode I challenge my guests to revisit their toughest moments their boldest decisions and the mindset that carried them through follow the founder mindset wherever you get your podcasts from artificial intelligence to the gig economy to global volatility the economy is changing

[01:42:09] at a dizzying pace enter the managing the future of work podcast the chart topping and critically acclaimed podcast from harvard business school hosted by me bill kerr and by managing the future of work project co-chair joe fuller this show explores technology trends demographic changes the rise the care economy and many other forces transforming the landscape of work we'll highlight the insights of business leaders technologists and experts

[01:42:39] like business roundtables Kristen Silberg on corporate workforce strategy and Khan academy founder Sal Khan on AI education and the future of work with more than two and a half million downloads and close to 300 episodes there is something for everyone follow HBS managing the future of work on Apple podcasts Spotify or wherever you're listening now