711: TWD: Dead City S3E2 "Haven"

[00:00:00] Insurance isn't one-size-fits-all, and shopping for it shouldn't feel like squeezing into something that just doesn't fit. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressive's Name Your Price tool for years. With the Name Your Price tool, you tell them what you want to pay, and they show you options that fit your budget. Enough hunting for discounts, trying to calculate rates, and tinkering with coverages. Maybe you're picking out your very first policy, or maybe you're just looking for something that works better for you and your family.

[00:00:28] Either way, they make it simple to see your options. No guesswork, no surprises. Ready to see how easy and fun shopping for car insurance can be? Visit Progressive.com and give the Name Your Price tool a try. Take the stress out of shopping, and find coverage that fits your life, on your terms. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company & Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace,

[00:00:58] and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message, and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook.

[00:01:20] This episode is supported by FX's The Shards, a seductive drama from executive producer Ryan Murphy. Set in 1980s Los Angeles, the series follows a group of glamorous, deeply entangled high school seniors drawn into a life of wealth, beauty, parties, and excess. At its center is Brett, whose reality begins to unravel when the arrival of a new student coincides with a series of mysterious

[00:01:46] murders. FX's The Shards premieres August 5th on FX and Hulu. Hmm? Ah! Oh. I used to be a cop. I used to work undercover. When you go deep, it's not you, you know. But it is.

[00:02:13] Right? Whoever you are, it's not, but it has to be. You know, for years, when I went dark, it was me. And it was someone else. I'm holed up in that bar for ages. I knew I didn't understand them. I had to pretend or I would have gone crazy. Shit, maybe I did. I don't know. Maybe I don't really know what is happening.

[00:02:40] I do know one thing. When you play a part for too long, it becomes a piece of who you are. No matter what, there's no way it's ever going to leave you. So a part of me is always going to be the guy that had to unload shipping containers full of girls. And a piece of me is always going to

[00:03:09] understand them. It's fucking boobies.

[00:03:55] What's up, Zedheads? Welcome to the podcast. I'm Ben. And I'm Alex. And this is The Walking Dead 'Cast, episode 7-1-1. 7-11! 7-11! And this episode, we're covering The Walking Dead, Dead City, season 3, episode 2, Haven. Makes me want to slurpy now. 7-11 or Haven? No, it's 7-11! We had an Ice Cream Heaven, which is kind of like Haven by my house, so I'd like to think it counts.

[00:04:24] We did. Well, we did. I think now it's a smoke shop. Everything's a smoke shop. There are so many freaking smoke shops around now. It's a lot. It's so ridiculous. They all have Pennsylvania skills games inside. Yeah, because by me, it's like smoke shops, vape shops, but it's all nicotine stuff because we're in PA, so it's... It's almost legal, but not fully.

[00:04:52] Pharmaceutical is legal. Recreational is not. Correct. Correct. But, you know, the home office of my... of the company that I work for for conventions is located in Massachusetts, where THC shops pop up almost as much as Starbucks. Well, there you go. I mean, they go hand in hand at this point, I would think. So how you doing, Ben? I am good.

[00:05:22] I am a little exhausted because con work has been busy, and it's SummerSlam weekend for those of you who are wrestling fans. And at the time we're recording this, night one has completed, which is why we're recording kind of late tonight. But I'm always appreciative that Alex is willing to stay up and get this done. I'm a night owl, so nothing bothered me at all. Typically, I'm not.

[00:05:49] But if I know with enough advance, I can work my circadian rhythm into the right space. But yeah, if you hear my voice is a little raspy, folks, that's just because it is. All right. Good enough excuses, Eddie. Just because it is. Darn team. No, but I mean, as far as this episode goes, I'm doing really good because I'm really excited to talk about this one. Super hyped to talk about this. As promised, we are going to do the feedback from episode one first.

[00:06:18] But yeah, great, great, great, you know, 52 minutes of television. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I cannot wait to explain how and why. Yeah. I do want to go back to last week for a minute. I know we had said that there was no previously on before the episode, at least not that we saw. But apparently there was one because some of our listeners had seen it because they got their recap of what happened in season two. And we went in completely blind.

[00:06:48] That doesn't. Again, I didn't bother anyone. I saw eight minutes of a recap. And again, we're going to get to this episode. But if this episode is any indication, like, I'm really happy I didn't waste any more time on the season one and season two timeline because I'm so hyped for season three's time. Well, yeah. I mean, if this episode has given us anything, it was a reason to not have to worry about and go back to watch that 45 minute long recap of season two. Absolutely. Yes. Like, there's nothing.

[00:07:18] There's nothing to worry about in a season two recap. The entire board is reset. I was just going to say we've basically hit the reset button. We did. Someone called Resetti Services and here we are. That's a joke for all my Animal Crossing fans out there. I knew what it was. I got the reference. So although I haven't touched my island in probably two years. So I was grinding earlier. Cockroaches all over my house. Yeah. No.

[00:07:45] So before we dive into the episode, let's as you mentioned, let's get into the feedback because thankfully, you know, thank you to all you guys. We actually did get some feedback this week. So we're going to go through that first and then we'll dive into the episode. So Alex, why don't you kick us off with feedback from last week? All right. Coming in first, we have Valley, Valerie, Vandiver King, Jackalope to the brain for the win. Yeah. That was cool. That really was nice. Yeah. Maggie.

[00:08:13] Was it Maggie or was it Herschel? I think it was Maggie that smacked the zombie down on the Jackalope. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that was classic. Yeah. Teresa Harper. I loved it. I honestly didn't think I would like it as much as I did. And I didn't care for season two that much. But this season seems different. Yes. Teresa, you're onto something. You are completely onto something. Yeah. Could not agree more.

[00:08:41] Next up, Pamela Strickler. Love everything Walking Dead. That being said, why does the acting seem more like a soap opera? Was a fun episode, but I think I like angry Maggie better. I'm glad her and Negan are moving past their hate for one another, but it doesn't feel natural. I guess that is because things move quickly in the storyline due to how many episodes we get. Can't get enough of Negan's humor. I would not trust Herschel any farther than you could throw him. Looking forward to next week. Don't get bit.

[00:09:10] Like, hey, I felt the exact same way at the end of season or episode one as you did with regards to Herschel. By the end of episode two, I have no reason to worry about it. Who's he going to turn to? So, yeah. Yeah. It's I don't know if I felt the whole soap opera ish acting. I didn't have felt it in the past, but I actually I thought this was a pretty earnest one. Like, again, I don't know who the showrunner is and if it's different from last year, but it does feel different. It is a different showrunner this year.

[00:09:41] I'm not sure the name. I know Jason would know better than I would. And you would think two people that talk about this show and break down the show weekly would have looked that information up. There's there's a level of podcasting where there's reactionary and then there's studious and then there's some that are both. And I'm I'm in the reactionary boat right now and no regrets. Yeah. Yeah. But still, it's I'd like to be more studious. And I'm it's funny because I'm actually.

[00:10:10] It's Seth Hoffman, because as we were talking and vamping, I looked it up. I that's kind of we're good at that. I saw you over there click clacking on the board and I was like, all right, let's do this. All right. So what is Seth Hoffman known for? I hope you still have that web page up. I do not. But if you give me one second. Because that might help us understand like his normal tone or just his normal visions. Because I really like this.

[00:10:38] The Walking Dead Dead City has been renewed for a third season with Seth Hoffman signing on a showrunner. Hoffman, who takes over for Eli Jorn, spent three years as co-executive producer and writer on The Walking Dead. So he's not he's no newbie to The Walking Dead. Does it say what seasons? I'm asking so much of you right now. No, it's totally fine. I you know, we're breaking away from the feedback for a second. But it looks like he was executive producer of Dead City.

[00:11:06] Well, co-executive producer for 48 episodes. So a decent quite a bit. It looks like so season four. Season four, five and six. He was an executive producer on The Walking Dead. Oh, shizzle. Okay. I mean, that's that's really okay. All right. Yeah, he's got a good vision and this really felt we'll get into it. Ah, so that's how excited I am to talk about this.

[00:11:31] But I mean, if you think about that, he was co-executive producer on The Walking Dead in the seasons that led up to Negan. Correct. Correct. And those were some of the tightest. That was the intro to Alexandria. That was hell. That was the cannibals. That was the train car. So. Well done, sir. I was bringing back Morgan into the fray. And he actually has written a number of the episodes as well in all of those seasons, four, five and six. All right. We're in good hands, though. So, yeah.

[00:12:00] So, well, I mean, I think he's already kind of proven that with the first two episodes. That's a great point. Yeah. Deborah Ulmer. Yeah. Deborah Ulmer. Hi, Ben and Alex. We're back. And picking up right where right as we left off with Negan and Maggie bickering at each other. I'm so happy Herschel smartened up to the Dama. I couldn't take another season of that. Dillard's intro reminded me of princesses, but it looks like he was innovative and did not let loneliness get to him.

[00:12:30] The one thing I love about the one thing I love about and keeps me into the show is how culturally diverse of New York is and that they keep introducing groups that show that. I hate that they kept the Croat alive just to kill him off in the first episode. He was a fun villain to have around. At least he left him. At least he left them with how to make methane. The previews look great. I'm excited for the season. Y'all have a good one and take care. Well, the Croat didn't teach them how to make methane. He teach them how to harness the methane.

[00:13:01] Because methane is naturally produced by the rotting of the walkers. I have a degree in psychology, so fake science. So I will not get into this debate one way or the other. Why? Do you think differently? I don't know enough to know. Sure. What you said sounds great. I don't know. So let's go with that. Okay. Okay. From Matt King. I have forgotten what had happened at the end of season two. Did we see Ginny get killed then?

[00:13:29] Nice to finally get the big two fighting alongside each other in a positive way now. And while we don't want to see any romantic nonsense between them, a more positive attitude between the two helps. Nice to see more humor in episode one, which really helped. And good to see Herschel appears to be awake again. Unless, as the podcast suggested, it's a ruse from the Dama and Herschel to trick Maggie and Negan. Out of interest, is it possible or realistic that when this show finally ends, they might have looked to move back to join the rest in the Commonwealth or Hilltop slash Alexandria?

[00:13:59] Um, all right. So, A, we saw, we didn't necessarily see Ginny get killed, but we saw that she got injured. The injury got infected. They didn't get medicine to it soon enough. And while Negan was taking out Bruegel, she died and turned. Like, she kind of died naturally and then turned. And that was really, really sad. Yeah. We saw, we saw that Ginny had died, but we did not see that Walker Ginny had died. That is correct. And I think. Oh yeah, you're right. You're right. You're right. Yes.

[00:14:27] Cause Negan discovers her after she had already turned. Um, and I don't think we ever saw Negan kill her, um, kill the Walker version of her. I think we're just meant to. Understand. Understand that that is what happened. They put her down. Um. As for Commonwealth Hilltop Alexandria? No. No. Especially after what we see in this episode. I don't, I don't think that's, I think if anything, it would be a trade route in concert

[00:14:55] with, but I don't think these two have any desire to go anywhere other than where they're at. Well, we also have to remember too, that the Commonwealth Hilltop Alexandria areas, they're all in Virginia. They sure are. So. They sure are. You know, they're all around like Virginia, DC area. So it's a little bit of a ways, especially in this world. And I gotta tell you people, when you're going from top of Pennsylvania to the bottom of Pennsylvania, the state doesn't stop. Okay. I can promise you. The state does not stop for hours on end.

[00:15:23] I could see maybe possibly some trade with the bricks because that's where we found Maggie at the beginning of Dead City. Very true. Uh, Commonwealth or Hilltop Alexandria? I wouldn't say so. Was it was. So the Commonwealth wasn't in Ohio. Nevermind. It was in the comics, I think, but not in the show. I was, I, I think I was led to believe that it was like Virginia area. I could be wrong. Uh. And then. I'm.

[00:15:53] No, no. I mean, I know. Like. And the, and the weird thing is that unlike Jason, I tend not to take stuff out. Okay. So. I'm okay with that. Danny and I very, very rarely ever take anything out of our show. So. Oh, no, you are actually, you are actually correct. Ohio. The Commonwealth and the Walking Dead is located in Ohio, roughly several hundred miles away from the group's home base in Alexandria. Huh. But.

[00:16:22] So Alexandria is in Virginia. Okay. And I think we did see them getting some sort of a, uh, railway network set up at some point. If I remember in Walking Dead proper, we saw train cars doing stuff. So maybe they've established and we're getting ahead of ourselves at this point. Um, but still Matt love the questions. They were fantastic. Yeah, absolutely. Um, all right. Moving on. We have an email from Colin Stilwell. Uh, welcome back fellas.

[00:16:52] What a time to be alive. I'm going on vacation and I'm going to miss episode two and three of Dead City. Uh, and episode seven and eight of House of the Dragon. Oh, my Lanta. My. You're just going to have to stay offline. I have not heard. Oh, my Lanta in so long. My daughters love classic, uh, full house. They are eight and 12 and I, it is on fairly frequently in my household and I love it. Is that so funny?

[00:17:21] Uh, my favorite episode of Dead City so far. I'm glad they're bringing in some more humor into the Walking Dead universe. Lord knows, uh, DD doesn't have any. Oh, Daryl Dixon. Oh. Daredevil? No, it was Daryl Dixon. I know. Same universe. Uh, I feel, I feel like Negan copied a page from my book with his short, uh, with his short shitty shit shtick. Say that five times fast. Uh, I need to speak with your writer.

[00:17:51] I could have gone a few more episodes or years without seeing Herschel dumbly devious, devilishly demoralizing disposition. Herschel's a spy. My man. Hey, and I pulled that off in one take too. That was nice. Uh, I'm late on the, I'm late on the email. Been a busy summer. All that yada and bullshit excuses that I'll always find to make myself feel better for being lazy and socially awkward. Anyways, glad to be back. We're here. We're not fear. Morgan's not clear.

[00:18:20] Negan's drinking beer. The future is clearly here. My man, Colin. Always doing, always doing the Lord's work. You used here twice, Colin. You know, he did. And unfortunately it wasn't here as in like to auditorially take in. It was here as in a placement both times. If it were H-E-A-R and H-E-R-E, I would have allowed it on a monopoeia and all that. But yeah, it's a bummer. Man, disappointed, Colin. No, not at all. Not at all disappointed in that email. I am disappointed. We love him for you.

[00:18:50] I'm not disappointed for you, Colin. But God, my heart goes out to you, man, that you're missing these two episodes of Dead City as well as the final two episodes of the best season of House of the Dragon to date, I think. Just by far the best season. So God willing, can't wait to hear what you think. Let me ask you something because, and I apologize to the listeners, we're breaking away from Walking Dead for a second, but we're staying within podcastical world. Sure are.

[00:19:18] I have not watched it since because, and I think we talked about this a little bit last week, that I kind of lost interest in it. Is it a struggle to go back to it? If I wanted to play catch up? No. Here's the thing. The nice thing about shows like this, and for me, original Game of Thrones season two was really slow and really dragged. And like, it was a slog for me to get through that first one or two watch throughs. Now it's all good. Same with The Wire. The second season is always hard.

[00:19:48] So I think second seasons are extremely hard to pull off, especially when you have a really, really good first season. But like, you just got to get through it. And the build up to season two, you'll now have the payoff from season three. So like all the things that pissed us off because we had to wait two years for that payoff, you have the payoff available to you. So I think now is the time to marathon through and blast through and get caught up because it is telling a damn good story finally again. Okay. All right.

[00:20:18] That's, that's, yeah, that's totally fair. And, um, I've been thinking about it. I have so much other shit that I need to watch. Um, I've, you and I talked about this. I've been sitting on screener copies of season four of Ted Lasso for how long now? And I still haven't watched them. I kind of have to now this week because I have to review them for Apple. That's true. Um, but I'm, I'm very hesitant because I'm so, I adore that show so much that I'm, I'm

[00:20:47] just, I know I'm either going to love it or hate it and I don't want to hate it. So you got to go in. Well, so here's the thing. And, and I think, you know, I listened to this a lot on the ringer podcast and like the midnight boys. I think a lot of us go in with these, well, it's got to check this box in this box in this box. And we don't just let some things be what they are like thunderbolts critically. I don't think went over or commercially rather didn't go over as well, but like, it's a great movie.

[00:21:17] And I think a lot of the negative chatter is because people want things to be one way, but I think Ted Lasso, I don't know what I want it to be. And that's, that's what intrigues me the most. Cause I'm willing to let it be whatever it's going to be. And like, I adored thunderbolts. So like I didn't listen to the reviews either. And I mean, and even with Spider-Man right now, we are so off topic and I apologize. Um, but like, and I'm not going to say anything about the movie cause we don't want to, we don't want to spoil anything.

[00:21:46] It's, it's literally opening weekend. So we don't want to spoil true, but the advanced reviews before the movie released from the critics were panning that movie. And now that people are actually going to see it, like it's at like a 98% on from audience view on rotten tomatoes. And I saw an advanced screening of it as a critic. And I adored that movie. Like it is my favorite of any Tom Holland Spider-Man movie that has out and that is out so far. I think just to get on a, on a quick, quick soapbox, then we'll get to Steve.

[00:22:14] But I think so much anymore of the media based landscape, especially when it comes to any kind of coverage of something, the things that get clicks are controversial, negative takes, because people want to know why something doesn't work. They're not as interested in finding out why something does work. And a lot of the times when something does work, you can't really talk about it because then you're ruining some sort of narrative surprise. So I just think so often reviewing culture has turned negative because that's what gets

[00:22:43] the eyeballs and the eyeballs get the dollar and it's all just a big commercialized cluster. So that's my soapbox moment. No, and I agree with it too. And I, and that's not just the case for Spider-Man. That's the case for anything. And superhero movies usually tend to be a very easy target for stuff like that because movies and TV shows, they're, they're very just, they're just easy targets. And again, people want it to be one way and when it goes the other way, they, they feel, you know, like they got ripped off or whatever, but there's a thousand universes.

[00:23:12] So if they pick one or invent a new one, I say, go for it. Yeah, for sure. Uh, all right. With that being said, we do have a voicemail and of course it comes from our friend, Steve Brown. And let me tell you, this is a breath of fresh air because this is the first. Steving we're getting of the season. So true. I'm excited. So let's go ahead and play that now. Hello, walking dead cast. This is Steve.

[00:23:39] Uh, this is going to be for a walking dead, dead city, uh, season three, episode one. Good. So we have a previously on because I didn't do anything to catch up for this season. It was that a wanted poster for Maggie and Negan. Hey, I don't remember. Thanks for the ketchup Negan, but I'm still missing something. Didn't he even have a wife and a kid? I don't remember what happened to them. I lost count of how many times he said the S word. Ooh, and Maggie's got a mouth on her too. Oh, that's right. It was the new Babylon army that took over.

[00:24:07] And Negan, I guess still has Lucille 2.0. Whoa. Herschel just blew up. Did I see Jimmy Simpson's name in the credits? I didn't know he was going to be in this. Oh, okay. Herschel's alive. Okay. I thought Herschel was with the woman in, but now he's, I don't know. I obviously I should have done something to catch up on this show. Sure. You'll explain some of this. Wait. And now we're flashing back to four months ago. What happened four months ago? The Donna. That's the woman that I thought Herschel was with. So how do they stop the walkers from falling down the ramp anymore? Did they close it off somehow?

[00:24:34] I mean, I see that she closed the gate, but there would still be walkers falling down that ramp. Wouldn't there? Okay. So they're in a bar and now, uh, what? There's a bartender serving a walker? Jimmy Simpson has the bartender. Okay. I see. They somehow sealed up the ramp. So he's been living in this apartment building, manufacturing each floor with a different staple food crop. I don't get it. Okay. That's great. Oh, this is quite the change. Maggie's begging Negan for help. Well, that seemed a whole lot easier than they thought it was going to be.

[00:25:03] Uh, I mean, Maggie and Negan are carrying the Croat and they're not fighting at all, but yet they made it to the embassy or wherever this is. Okay. So they made it to the embassy. They got the tank and now they're back at the hospital and nothing happened in between. How far away is the bricks from, uh, Manhattan Island? Okay. So Negan's going back to the bar and Maggie's thinking about staying in Manhattan. Okay. But the Dama is still out there and new Babylon. Aren't they in control of the city? Okay. And the Dama is going to rebuild her empire.

[00:25:33] Okay. Uh, I mean, I'm along for the ride. So can't wait to hear you guys talk about it. Steve, you encapsulated every feeling I have, especially ending it with, all right, I'm along for the ride. Let's see what happens here. Cause yeah, that's how I felt at the end of episode one. Yes. But hearing his recap made me like realize how much changed from our thoughts from episode one, episode two, because, you know, he mentions, oh, the Dama is rebuilding her kingdom. Oh my gosh. Well, which we know is that's not happening.

[00:26:03] That scratch that one off the list. Um, yeah, so much of it, like, and, and they hate it. It's fascinating because you could tell that they wanted to get past the sins of season one and season two. And just, I don't know, it never quite clicked. It had cool set pieces and interesting enough storylines that I wanted to keep going to see where it went, but like it never quite clicked properly.

[00:26:30] And I think that they rushed in these two episodes to close those gaps, but they did it decently enough. I think closing the gap of the Croat and the Dama, like they, they gave both of them their, their day in the limelight to write them off. And both of their deaths are setting up, you know, pieces of season three. So I love the reset. They needed to reset. And I think they did it in a really smart and solid way. Yeah, I, I agree.

[00:26:57] Um, so with that said, thank you everybody for, for the voicemails and the emails and the comments and everything. We hope you guys continue to give us feedback on this second episode. And as we progress through the season, uh, and we'll always read it on the podcast. This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on marketplace and there it was the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny and an avid cyclist.

[00:27:24] The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for from a browse to a bike ride this summer. Find more on Facebook. This episode is supported by FX is the shards, a seductive drama from executive producer, Ryan Murphy set in 1980s, Los Angeles. The series follows a group of glamorous, deeply entangled high school seniors drawn into a

[00:27:54] life of wealth, beauty parties, and excess at its center is Brett whose reality begins to unravel when the arrival of a new student coincides with a series of mysterious murders. FX is the shards premieres August 5th on FX and Hulu. Got a Sam's Club pizza order up. You know, the best part about this spicy Italian sausage. I voted for this topping. Yeah, just another perk of being a member. Come join us.

[00:28:23] Sam's club. But now let's move into we've already talked about it a little bit. Let's get into the deeper stuff of episode two. You took up the mantle of doing the description this week, so I'm going to leave it to you to read. Gosh. All right. So. God help us all. Normally, when I do summaries for my podcast, it's filled with pop culture references and puns. And I had to rewrite this like six times to get rid of all them. So let's see how I did.

[00:28:53] All right. The Walking Dead Dead City Season 3 Episode 2 Haven. This week's episode sees Negan and Maggie embrace their new lifestyles after the events of last episode. Maggie uses her leadership to improve the infrastructure of the island through security and ensures the inhabitants are well trained on how to avoid a threat. Negan, meanwhile, finds his purpose by keeping entirely to himself. Day drinking and video gaming like your average man child. Negan is an ally to Maggie, but not a member of the community.

[00:29:21] We finally get a bit more of Dillard's backstory and Renata comes forth as the north point of the morality compass this season. In the final moments, find out the story from Season 1 and 2 is closed and over. Season 3 is a whole new beginning and an exciting breath of fresh air. That was awesome. Thank you. So, yeah. Oof. Well done with the description this week. You know, it was really hard to do it without it just being a blatant recap or review. Synopsises are not easy. Let me tell you.

[00:29:50] No. No, they're really not. They're really nerve-wracking. Yeah. So, but you know what? We've handled it for the first two episodes and we'll continue to do it. I thoroughly enjoy not having anything to influence my viewpoint of anything I'm watching. And like, I take on a massive feeling of responsibility that we are helped shaping the conversation around this show because it's so good. It is.

[00:30:17] It is rather interesting and also refreshing at the same time, as you just said, to kind of not have opinions out there on the internet affecting our conversation. Correct. We're doing things differently this year. Like we said, we didn't watch trailers. We didn't. I've never done this in any entertainment podcast I've ever done. I've never just blindly handled a topic without any outside influence.

[00:30:46] And I got to tell you, it's exhilarating. It's exhilarating. It's challenging, but challenging in a good way. Yes. Like the only person I can talk to about this is Kara because she's the only person like, because with you, I want to save that content until showtime and anyone else. I don't want to get spoiler or anything. So it's been a hell of a week because I watched this like five days before you did because you watched it today. Yeah. I literally watched it right before we started recording so that it's fresh in my head.

[00:31:13] I was, I would have watched this episode four times if I wasn't afraid I was going to overdose on it. Yeah. It's, it is a really good episode and it's, oh man, I just had a thought and I, I already lost it because we were, we were moving on too quickly, but it's, um, yeah, no, it's, it's been a good challenge and I kind of like it. You had Kara to talk to about the episode. I had my cats to talk to about the episode and they tend to just walk away. That's a shame. That's a shame. They're more of Twilight people. I get it. No, they're not.

[00:31:42] They are not Twilight cats. Don't hate on Twilight. They're, that is a guilty pleasure. Not even that guilty. I'm sorry. Does anybody want to come on and host this podcast with me going forward? That's my favorite bit. All right. So to start the episode and I wanted to call it out to you. I had a thought upon my second viewing when we saw the, the statue of Liberty. Okay. Why is the statue of Liberty falling apart? Like I get it that we're in the zombie apocalypse. It's been 20, but like copper doesn't fall apart like that. That's weird.

[00:32:12] Right. It does oxidize in rust. It oxidizes. That's why she's green. But like, would it really fall apart in 25 years? I don't know. I challenge that. I just think it looks really cool. The skeleton of Liberty. I know. I, I do. I didn't really think about that when we saw it, but you are right. Because as long as that statue has been up there, it, it, nothing has deteriorated like that. And we're only talking about maybe. 25 years. Maybe. I was going to say maybe 10 to 20 years. Like not a lot. But yeah, we're talking.

[00:32:42] Yeah. Like I think 20, 25 years is a good timeline, which I don't think that statue of Liberty, even with nobody maintaining it. Right. Would have fallen apart like that. I don't think so either. Granted, visually again, cannot stress this enough. Looks badass. And I think that's just it. I think they did it purely just for a visual effect. They did. They did. But of course the smile on my face when the episode kicks off with the statue of Liberty, because how long have I been saying I want more of the statue of Liberty? Yeah.

[00:33:11] Since before I was on this bad boy with you. Um, I, so the opening intro, I thought it was a really good way of showing the passage of time. How much time do you think passed between last episode and this episode? Like weeks, months? My guess is it's probably been, cause they don't indicate. You're right. I, I, my guess would probably be two to three months. Okay. Okay. Um, because it does take time.

[00:33:37] Look, when you look at how many tanks they have now, when they only had one, now they have a full operation of tanks. Even just the whole surveillance system that was set up with, with, I mean, wires that go all the way to Patty's North, which is what I'm calling the bars. Patty's. That's awesome. By the way. Thank you. So if you ever hear me call Patty's, I'm talking about Negan's new home base, but yeah, the, the light going off. Like, so yeah, two months sounds about right. Okay. Well, and not only that, and I, I, there's a possibility could be even longer than that

[00:34:07] too, because we also have to remember that new Babylon has already come and gone. Yeah. The coming thing is fascinating that. So I guess because as they thought there was no more methane because the Croat blew up what they knew of, they hightailed and got out of there. But I like that the writers keep it open that like, they could come back at any time. But right now we don't have to deal about with new Babylon at like, they're, they're out of the picture. And I think in a really healthy way. Well, they're still there.

[00:34:35] We know that they're still there because they are around. We didn't see him last episode, but we get pearly this episode. We do. What a weird character. We get a Bon Voyage Armstrong party. Couple of like Bon Voyage moments. See, they even lampoon it in the episode, but. Yeah. He just never worked, man. I wanted him to, but I think they were right to cut their losses and, and get rid of him with the Croat and the Dama. As part of that reset, man, like we've, it was smart.

[00:35:03] Everything tying Maggie and Negan to the previous two seasons is gone. The only thing that remains. With the exception of the city. Is Herschel and the city. But like, and that's the correct answer. That is because, and I guess because Ginny's gone, you might as well reset it. Cause that would have been a good addition, but I liked the opening montage. I thought maybe they did new year's at one point because of the glasses and the karaoke, but that could also just be Negan and Jimmy having a good time. I think that's just the two of them having a good time in, in Patty's North.

[00:35:34] Um, and what's funny too, is like, we see them, we see Maggie's people. We see this huge dynamic for starters between how Negan's taking life in New York and how Maggie's treating life in New York. Yep. Maggie is helping Renata and Louise and all of their people. It looks like they've taken on more people because there are people there that are not part of Renata's family. Um, you know, there are children there. They've taken on more survivors over this time. Everybody's getting fed.

[00:36:02] Meanwhile, Negan is sitting in a bar. He's drinking, he's playing Gears of War. He's wearing. Is that what game that was? That was Gears of War. And what, what system was that on? Well, that's an Xbox exclusive. My friend. No, no. So like, is that a 360? Is that a. It's 360. So does, would the system have been around at the fall of humanity? Yeah. 360 would have. I couldn't remember. I was, I've always been a Sony guy. Yeah.

[00:36:31] No, 360 would have definitely been around at the time before civilization fell. Cause I was curious to see if that was anachronistic or not. No, it's, I mean, and let's not forget too. I think there have been, we've, we've jumped time in throughout the walking dead. Like, like we're clearly to a point where her show as a teenager, you know, Judith is older. So we've made time jumps throughout.

[00:36:55] So in the walking dead universe, we're probably up to 20, 29, 2030. Like the good thing about that is when you make time jumps in a post-apocalyptic world, you don't have to worry about showing technology or the world growing with the time because it wouldn't. That's true. It stopped at that inflection point. The world pauses, the world stops. Yep. So you can do a 10 year time jump and not have to worry about showing progression. That's true. Because there really wouldn't be.

[00:37:25] There wouldn't be. Any. That opening intro, the last thing I want to say about it, it gave me such Vince Gilligan vibes. The, the way the, the old timey music and then the way that everyone was interacting, it felt like a classic Vince Gilligan intro. And it just, again, it just set me up with this feeling of like, all right, we're in good hands for this episode. This is going to be a lot of fun. Yeah. My, the challenge that came for me, um, was we see at one point during that opening

[00:37:51] montage that they are scouring the remains of what looks like a church. Yes. Because we see this large, we see, obviously we see the sides of the building, which architecturally, it is like a church. We see the stained glass window. I have been to, I'm not a religious person, but as somebody who loves New York city, I've been to a number of churches in New York because they are tourist spots just as they are. I mean, I'm a daredevil fan. So, so have I. That too. Uh, I couldn't place what church this was. Okay.

[00:38:21] Um, and I even Googled, I even stopped and Googled, um, popular churches in New York city to compare pictures. And I couldn't find anything that compared. Interesting. So I'm very curious if any listeners out there might have an idea just by looking at that stained glass window, what church this may be. It's definitely not St. Matthew's. I don't know. Um, yeah, I don't, I couldn't pinpoint what it was. Um, I'm going to guess it's going to be a St.

[00:38:50] St. Francis. That just felt like a St. Francis church to me as someone that survived 13 years of Catholic school. I, I feel like I can comment on this. Okay. That I don't know what it's going to be, but it feels like a Francis man. Um, so. But yeah, I mean, we see obviously by the, by the time we're done with this montage and we're back to whatever time period we are in now, however, time forward it's, it's jumped. We see that power has been developed. There are fuel tanks or they are, there are methane.

[00:39:20] Tanks. They are outside of just the hospital. Now they are clearly in a condo building because they all have homes now that they're living in. That's true. I didn't even put that. And my guess would be, and my guess would be, it's probably somewhere relatively close. I would imagine. So I would imagine. So if not, maybe even across the street from something, something, they usually do have some sort of condos nearby for those visiting doctors. So I wouldn't be surprised. So it's, they've clearly expanded outside of just the hospital, but they've probably taken

[00:39:49] over all of the hospital at this point, expanded outside to some living quarters where they are. Uh, and we see that Maggie is even providing power to Dillard's bar to, to Patty's North. God love it. Oh, Patty's North. I love it. Um, yeah. Yeah. And it really sets the stage for how far advanced they've gotten. Again, just in those two months, again, they have enough power for the surveillance system. So they're doing well. You see a bit of the armory that they've collected.

[00:40:17] Like, I think what this episode does a really good job of, and to people that may not remember, like Maggie has so much experience in infrastructure at this stage of the game from, um, the farm to Alexandria, to, uh, the Hilltop, to Meridian. Can't forget about Meridian to the bricks. Like she has helped develop and help set up so many different infrastructures.

[00:40:44] She's learned from so many good teachers that like, yeah, man, if anyone could turn this big ass Island in Manhattan into a self-sustaining populace, I trust Maggie. And like, you get to see her really flex her best, best muscles in this one. Yeah. One, 100%. And you know, there's nobody better suited for the job of taking on New York city. Yeah. Then, then Maggie, at least of anybody that we've met so far. She is from Jersey.

[00:41:15] That's, that's damn true as well. Um, but I mean like, even like if you look at like Rick or Michonne or anybody else that we've met, like they're all people that are like, and I don't mean this in a negative sense when I say close-minded, but they kind of are. They're close-minded and they are in survival states. Yes. Maggie is in a hopeful, they, they are in a survival, um, new world state. Maggie kind of can see the old world.

[00:41:46] And that's what she has hopes of bringing back, even against kind of Negan's wishes. And I don't even think it's really against Negan's wishes. I think it's just that Negan's behest and warning that like, be prepared for what you, you reap or be prepared for what you sow when you reap. Yes. You know, you're, it's not going to be as simple as you think. You're going to need judges. You're going to need wardens. You're going to need these people.

[00:42:12] And I really thought, so, okay, where has the walking dead universe gone? I remember the three questions, guys. There used to be some level of standards and practices before inviting folks into the community. I thought by the end of the episode, just throwing on the homing beacon and seeing like, and Hey, if they're bad people, we'll figure it out. Like, okay, like maybe let's settle down here and, and think this through a little bit harder. Um, I did think just willy nilly opening up the borders was a fascinating decision.

[00:42:42] I mean, you could argue that maybe you do this in, in levels, like restore some of the places that are closer to the water. Where are these people are going to be coming from?

[00:42:56] Like, like clear out some buildings there, restore the power, put some food in there so that they have it and tell them, okay, like if you, if you want to come to New York, you can stay here until we make some kind of like, we go through like a process to, to figure it out before you bring them into an inner sanctum. Kind of like the Commonwealth did. Yes. Where you go into the detention center until you pass the tests, whatever that looks like. Like, and then you get to actually join the community.

[00:43:24] Well, I don't even think you bring them into a detention center. Like, well, no, I just meant that's what the Commonwealth did, but correct. But you give them actual places. Temporary living places. Yeah. And you know, to see how they react to it when, cause if you bring somebody in and this is kind of what Maggie kind of leads to when she's talking to Renata about this and even talking to Negan about this.

[00:43:44] Is that if you bring somebody in and you provide them shelter and you provide them food, if you're not giving them a reason to be a bad person, they can change and become a good person. Even if they were a bad person. So you provide them that living space. You provide them the food. You provide them everything they need to, to prove that they can be a good person, even if they're not a good person. But you do it separate from where you live.

[00:44:12] And I think you do it in the Bronx. Damn right. You do. It's just kind of house kitchen. It's honestly has not changed one bit. Um, and I think that's the beautiful thing about this season that I'm coming to realize is it is asking us once again to solve the Randall problem of when do you kill? When do you show mercy? It's, it's giving us another version of the Negan problem. Can everyone be saved? Can everyone turn it around and be someone that is a valuable piece of society?

[00:44:39] It's asking us to inquire that with folks like the Dama, but then it's also at the end telling us to inquire that with Negan again, which I think is a fascinating narrative choice. And like, all right, so let's talk about the Negan of it. So. We're going to jump around a lot. Thank God. Cause I was just about to say like, folks, we're just talking, I think big picture. You've all watched the episode. You don't need us to recap it from beginning to end. We're just talking about the narrative choices and how it all inflects.

[00:45:08] But like, I mean, to, to be fair, there are a couple individual things we're going to have to talk about. Like, yes. Dillard's backstory. Negan's those are some sweet ass boobies comment. That whole thing. I can't wait to get it. Cause I, is there supposed to be something deeper there? I cannot tell. I, I think there is, I think there is something deeper within that painting and there needs to be a payoff.

[00:45:36] And honestly, I would not be surprised if that painting was made by Herschel. When he was still with the Dama. Um, but I don't know. I don't know if he was with the Dama long enough to do that. We know that he escaped her the day after everything happened, you know, with season one.

[00:45:58] I think there's more to that painting purely in the fact that Negan brought it back to the bar and it's hanging at the bar. It's at his house now. I think that painting is going to come back into play because somebody is going to see it and realize it's something else. It's from and like, yeah. Yes.

[00:46:21] But it's, I found it also funny that Negan couldn't see anything deeper into it than a pair of boobies. Like, even when he's, even when Dillard's giving his whole backstory. When Dylan's giving, Dillard's giving his whole backstory and Negan is just kind of like moving his head back and forth, analyzing that, that painting. And it's like, no, those are just boobies. Like he, he's not seeing the deeper meaning. No.

[00:46:48] And that part was fun because I watched it the first time in the full episode. And then when I was rewatching it today, first I watched it and closed my eyes so I could just listen to Dillard's backstory because I was so distracted by what Negan was doing and seeing. Yeah. I wasn't really listening that much to Dillard's backstory. So I listened to that and then I rewound it and then just paid attention to what Negan was looking at because I, I know, I know I'm supposed to pick something up there.

[00:47:14] And I'm just not picking up whatever I'm supposed to from that moment. I don't think we're meant to yet. Okay. You know, you're, you're thinking future payoff. Yeah. I think that's going to be a future payoff. Like I said, the fact that he, that could have been written off so easily if it was there for nothing more than humor.

[00:47:33] Because why did Negan and Dillard go back to that theater if it wasn't to do some kind of a payoff with that painting or at least further progress something with that painting? Do you think Negan went back to the theater explicitly to grab that painting? I don't think he went back to the theater to get that painting. I think they were just out and about, out and about, probably looking to see if they could, more probably Negan looking to see if he could,

[00:48:01] discover anything more about the Dama. Okay. That makes sense. But again, the Dama had already been captured at that point. Right. And everybody of the Negan's people were killed from them. There was no reason to go back to that theater and to incorporate that painting back into the story again, unless there is going to be some kind of payoff with that painting. Correct. And it can't just be to get Dillard's backstory. We could have gotten that in any thousand days. We could have gotten that at the bar. We could have.

[00:48:31] What did you think of Dillard's backstory? Because you've known people in the service and like, so I'm sure you've known undercover guys and like, that's pretty believable answer on all things considered. And it really does explain a lot about Dillard and how he is. Yes. Because he is. His character. His attachment character. Yes. Yes. His attachment character, as you said.

[00:48:53] And the fact that he is easily able to kind of just blend into a situation and go along with it. Just as he has been doing with talking to the deadies that are in the bar and playing the part of a bartender. Like somebody who's like that, who is in that service and is undercover has to dive into deep cover. And you do kind of lose yourself in that.

[00:49:20] And that kind of explains why Dillard is the way he is. And I know it was, was it Colin that made the comparison to Princess? Or no, it was Deborah Ulmer. It was Deborah. Yes. Made the comparison to Princess. That was a great, great comparison, by the way. I didn't give it as flowers at the time. And I think it kind of lends itself to kind of explain why there is a difference between Princess and Dillard.

[00:49:50] In that Princess was not an undercover agent. She had to adapt to being secluded in this world on her own, which is what made her the way she was. But Dillard kind of had that background to be able to separate. And he did. And that's how he survived secluded the way he did. And that's why he is the way he is. He adapted to a personality because it was something that needed to be done. And that's where he is now. Yep.

[00:50:21] He's adapted to a personality of a bartender who is there to lend an ear and have conversations, even if the conversations are with walkers. However you got to stay sane, you know, whatever it takes.

[00:50:40] And it's so fascinating to get this kind of a role from Jimmy Simpson and to think, you know, inside there's someone that's got cop powers, like probably knows how to protect himself, defend others, shoot a gun. And so that's also a nice thing about having in his flak jacket of his backstory. Like he's probably someone that competently and capably could survive the apocalypse.

[00:51:05] Did you find that whole thing cheesy with him and the talking to zombies and then the way that that all played out, like to the brick exploding head scene? Did you find any of that cheesy or all of it good? Because I can't tell. I actually liked it. I thought so. I have two, two thoughts, two trains of thoughts when it comes to this. First off, I think it was necessary because things were going too good between Negan and Dillard.

[00:51:32] They needed something that was going to breach a little bit of tension between the two of them. And it did because Negan got to a boiling point with this whole believing he could talk to walkers. Or just not taking anything seriously. Yeah, like it made Negan feel like he wasn't taking anything too seriously, which is what led to Dillard giving us his backstory, giving Negan his backstory and explaining why he is this way. Dillard knows he is this way.

[00:52:01] It's just he needed to explain it to Negan as to why he is. And on the other hand, I feel like this whole talking to walkers characteristic of Dillard's was a nod to purely Jimmy Simpson. Absolutely. Yes. That is the level of weird that he is best at.

[00:52:26] Like we this was the writer saying, we know what Jimmy can do and who he can be. Let's give him something to show these people. This is Jimmy being Jimmy. Very much so. Yes, very. And I think I think he and Negan are phenomenal, you know, counterpoints for each other when they're playing the video game together. And they're just broing out like a couple of bro bros. It is just so delightful and so fun to watch.

[00:52:55] And it wouldn't surprise me if the idea of Dillard being able to talk to walkers came from Jimmy himself. I could see that. I could see we need some sort of a quirk, some sort of a sort of a thing like, oh, I got this. I've always wanted to do a walker voice. Yeah. Like this is something he pitched to the to the writers. I can only hope or to be when they create this character, they thought to themselves, you know who would do great at this? Jimmy Simpson. I think we can get him. We can get him. Trust me. Yeah.

[00:53:25] You know, it's but no, I feel like it was kind of fitting to the character. And I actually didn't think it was overly cheesy at all because of the fact that, like I said, it's what led to that tension between Dillard and Negan. And, you know, which which works great for both characters. It makes Dillard realize, OK, I might be taking this a little too far. Um, but it also makes Negan realize that, like, it doesn't matter where I am. It's never going to be easy. And I'm always going to be me.

[00:53:52] And I think that was another thing that was really telling about what Dillard said during his his monologue was sometimes when you play a character for so long, it becomes a part of you. And no matter what you do, you're never going to be able to escape it being there. And sometimes it doesn't take that much for it to come back out. So a piece of him is always going to be that guy that unloaded girls from, you know, boxcars. And I think what that's telling us is Negan played Savior Negan for so long. It's reminding us he's always going to be in there and he's always going to be a part of it.

[00:54:22] And I think we see that with how the episode ends with him and the Dama. Like, and I want to know. All right, let's talk about the morality because you got Renata saying you can't kill under any circumstances. You got Maggie saying it'd be super great if she was dead, but like, I don't want to be the one to pull the trigger. And you got Negan saying the only way to keep your people safe is to kill her. This episode is brought to you by Facebook.

[00:54:49] So you were scrolling on Marketplace and there it was. The bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook.

[00:55:16] This episode is supported by FX's The Shards, a seductive drama from executive producer Ryan Murphy. Set in 1980s Los Angeles, the series follows a group of glamorous, deeply entangled high school seniors drawn into a life of wealth, beauty, parties, and excess. At its center is Brett, whose reality begins to unravel when the arrival of a new student coincides with a series of mysterious murders. FX's The Shards premieres August 5th on FX and Hulu.

[00:55:46] Did you know Sam's Club isn't a store? It's actually a club with cool finds and like a whole community. It's a club. Of course, Jason. It's in the name. Sam's Club. Oh, yeah. Come join us. Sam's Club. What do you think was the right outcome for the drama? On that three levels of, like Maggie saying, all right, man, if you're not going to eat, just take care of it yourself then.

[00:56:14] Just kill yourself and make life easier. Renata saying no matter what, you got to keep her alive. And Negan saying she's got to go. Where did you land on that spectrum? Cool. I'll go first because I put you on the spot. I went team Negan. I'm sorry. I think the drama is so manipulative. She would have said, and I know that she chose not to die, but maybe that was just her choosing not to die until she could get back to like, I, I just don't think she was salvageable.

[00:56:44] And I think the second she that Herschel came to visit her, she would have tried to manipulate him. I just I don't think she would have turned. Well, I think she was too far gone. So I was on team Negan with like, probably do have to take that one out. I it's funny because like I can see all three points of view. Like I can see like I could absolutely see Renata's point of view of we need to be good. We need to be the light. We need to trust these people.

[00:57:10] We need to keep this a secret so that we can trust these people and that we can stay safe and we can protect what we have. But on the other side of that, Renata also has not seen. No, she kind of has because of the Croat, like everything that they went through with the Croat. True. She she kind of has seen it. Maggie is kind of the the middle point of this. She's she's seen both sides of this. She has seen how bad people can be.

[00:57:39] But on the other hand, she has seen through Negan that people who are absolutely horrible, deplorable, murderous people can be redeemed and be better people. So I can see from Maggie's point of view how she there's a part of her that might believe that maybe we can. We can do this again with the Dama. Right.

[00:58:01] But then 100 percent, I see Negan's point of view and I kind of am with you on this that I lean more towards Negan's point of view. And here's my reasoning why. And we see it for ourselves in this episode. Yes, we do. The first time we when we see the Dama in episode one, she has recruited two new people. She is by herself. She's recruited two of the old new Babylonians to come on board.

[00:58:30] By the time we see her again, however many months later it's been, she has recruited more people. And not only has she recruited more people, she has brainwashed these people to blindly follow her to their deaths. That is dangerous as shit. But especially again, when Maggie and her and Negan and Pearlie in theory at that point were just giving them supplies and offering them the opportunity.

[00:59:00] But she had effectively brainwashed them into following her rule in just a couple of months, believably. So I hear you. It I just I just she's too conniving. And she thinks there's no way she would have gotten on board with Maggie's vision because of just the way her world work or her mind worked. So she would have always fought Maggie for the right to control what New York looks like.

[00:59:28] So, yeah, I I get it. Do you think? And here's the thing. All right. Maggie never explicitly asked Negan to kill the Dama, but she also never told Negan not to kill the Dama. And like she did put him in charge of security or whatever that looks like. So, like, I don't what is the episode asking of us, the viewers to inquire about the messaging of the morality of this episode?

[00:59:56] I keep going back to morality, but it feels like such a morality play. Well, here's my question to you. Awesome. Do you think Maggie believes Negan killed the Dama? Because Maggie is the one that gave her the knife and it was stabbed in her chest, which you can easily do yourself. Does Maggie believe that does? Yeah. So does Maggie believe that Negan did it or does Maggie believe that the Dama ended her own life?

[01:00:25] I think this is the new conflict for Maggie and Negan. It has nothing to do with Glenn. And it's, can I trust you anymore? And I think that Maggie is going to have reservations and believe that Negan did it. And she's going to ask him and he's going to say no. And that's going to be the crux is that he lies to her about what he did in his role in the Dama. And that's going to be our new conflict. Because there's no doubt in my mind that Negan believes in what he did.

[01:00:54] But there's also no doubt in my mind that he doesn't really, like, he wouldn't have staged it the way he did unless he didn't really want anyone to know it was him. I think he tries, he's trying to get away with murder here. And because of that, it is a bad act because he knows it's wrong, which is why he's trying to get away with it. Well, I mean, and like, I still stand by my point that I made last week that the old elements of Negan died with the Croat and this is a new Negan.

[01:01:21] I still stand by that because Negan, he was still very warning of Maggie with this idea of opening up New York to everybody else. He was still letting her know, this is what you need to expect. I went through this. I've experienced this. You need to know what you're getting into by doing this. Which means he does genuinely care and look out for Maggie.

[01:01:48] Which is great because that relationship is the whole dynamic of this show now. But we do still see that there are some spots that don't change on a leopard. Like, it's, he's, but I also, I also think there's a part of me that believes this is, he's not doing this because this is Negan's nature. I honestly think there's a part of me that Negan believes he's doing this to protect Maggie.

[01:02:16] He's making the choice for her. I, I, I, I, I absolutely agree. I think he thinks that this level of murder is altruistic. And that's Negan. And I think that's the thing that makes him fascinating to me is because he's a man with a broken moral compass in a lot of ways. Like he's, he is not as moral as Rick Grimes. So there you go, Renee. I got you, girl. He is not as, as morally pure.

[01:02:44] He is never going to be as morally conflicted as Rick Grimes ever was. He knows his belief and then he believes it. And I, I think he, he says in this episode, everything he ever did was to save people. And I believe that he believes that he didn't always do it the right way.

[01:03:06] And he knows that, but every, he can always justify his ends and his means because, um, in his mind, everything was always about saving people. And I think that is a fascinating callback. But one thing that, that struck me upon when I was rethinking it and then rewatching it. All right. So when they're in the church that was directly taken from Final Fantasy seven, when cloud fell in and met Ares, okay.

[01:03:34] That church, um, and the opera house and Negan's the first one to shoot. I know that, that the Dama's guys lunged at them with knives and Negan immediately drops four guys before anyone else fires off around. So I did find it interesting that he'd see like, that was a really, really, really quick trigger finger from Negan in that scene.

[01:04:00] It, it was, but if you see how quickly Maggie and Pearly start firing as well, I think that's kind of just an indication that Negan was, Negan was right. No, I don't even think it's fear. I think it's Maggie and Pearly realizing that Negan was right. And like, we need to protect ourselves. And like, it's come to a point where we kind of, we have no choice. Right.

[01:04:28] Negan just came to that realization before Pearly and Maggie did. Okay. Yeah. I can. And again, the guy lunged at him. So he did make a move. Cause Negan just has that instinct because he's been through it a lot more than anybody else has. He had also been playing a lot of first person shooters. He had been. Honestly, like his brain was there. That's a really good point. He was like, oh shit, 200 points. Like, all right, boom, headshot. So that's, yeah, I didn't even consider that. That is a really good point. He was just playing video games.

[01:04:57] And like, now he got to actually do like, oh, it's like when you're playing Tiger Woods and then you actually get to go golf. It's like, oh, this is, this is what I was missing. Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right. So I'm looking at my notes. I still have so much. I think. Oh, thank God. Luis shaved his beard off. I do want to say that. I said the same thing watching this episode. When he walked up. I was like, who is that? Oh, that's Luis. He shaved. Yes.

[01:05:28] It felt really good. I hope they start giving him more to do. His dialogue has not been the strong. That's the only weakness I've found yet. This season was the dialogue they have given him. You could tell there's a better actor in there. So, but I was just happy to see the beard was gone. Yo, me too. It was, I was a horrible beard wig. As you had mentioned last week. It was. I found it interesting that the Zeds in New York are not the variant that can climb up scaffolding like the ones in the Commonwealth. I did.

[01:05:54] I did peep that, that, you know, there are various different variants of Zeds and these ones are not climbers. Um, either that or, or Dillard just calmed them down with his, with his words. It was, it was actually funny enough. It was a, uh, Walker rendition of Enya's greatest hits. So. Is that what, is that what Dillard gave him? That's what he gave him. Yeah. Yeah. Funny story. They paid for the rights. It was $8. Um, I mean, that one Walker was a Jets fan.

[01:06:24] So, I mean, it rightfully, it rightfully deserved in a, in a window. AC unit to the head, which was an awesome zombie kill, by the way. So one thing I'm finding fun about this season is two episodes. Now zombies really have not played much of a part. Like they had to have this little killing spree cause it was fun, but zombies haven't exactly been a threat yet. Knock on wood. Um, and I really appreciate that.

[01:06:50] I even appreciated Negan's, you know, I can't believe I have to say this this many years into the ZA, but you gotta take this shit seriously. Yeah. Cause I agree with them. Yeah. 100%. I mean, it's, you know, it's, how do you not realize at this point that these things are dangerous? Um, okay. So what did you think about when you first saw that Maggie gave the Dama a weapon?

[01:07:17] At any point, did you think to yourself, the fuck are you guys doing? Why are you giving the Dama a weapon? I understood it was to take care of herself, but still a woman like that. I don't know. No. Cause I don't think, I think Maggie was smart enough to know that the Dama never did her own dirty work. She always had people do it for her. So giving her a knife really wasn't that much of a threat to anybody other than herself. Yeah. You gotta be on that one.

[01:07:43] I mean, because even, I don't even think many people knew that the Dama was even there. True. The only people that probably knew that the Dama was captured down there. Were the people that were down there. Were, were probably Maggie, Negan, Luis, and Renata. Yep. That makes sense. And that's it. And Herschel, but Herschel never went from what we know. Well, Herschel didn't find out until later. Correct. And I will say, folks, I am officially off of Herschel is a spy watch.

[01:08:09] He has no reason and no one to spy for, uh, Herschel's just a dude again. Um. Which kind of disappoints me. I'm not gonna lie. I think it would have been an interesting plot device to do that, to maybe even still make him a sleeper. Okay. At some point. I agree. But it's, to me, it was kind of written off too quickly that he was shaken from the Dama's influence.

[01:08:37] I mean, she asked him to kill his mom and that was a bridge too far for him, which like, good, I'm glad to hear that. But narratively, that didn't feel as earned. I felt like he was a little bit more gone than that. Yeah. Um. Yeah, I agree with that. But I mean, we'll see. I hope for Herschel's sake that he's really shaken of it and the Dama's influence. I think that is the case.

[01:09:02] I think the Dama's influence is gone with the death of the Dama by the end of the episode, because like you said, and like we've agreed, it's a reset button. Oh, it's a complete, they got rid of Pearly. No reason to get rid of him. And he even said like, bitch, I ain't coming back here. Crazy. You tripping. I'm not, that's not happening. Um. I think any influence of the Dama was gone with the Dama. I agree. And I think season one and season two, it's almost like it never happened in a weird way.

[01:09:29] Like we know it did and they're going to carry the scars of it, but it's a whole new ball game. It's a whole new set of circumstances and it is the best narrative direction I have seen them take in all three seasons. I'm not going to say that I, I, I'm pretending seasons one and two didn't exist because in, in all actuality, seasons one and two was a cleansing. It was a cleansing of New York because Maggie even says it herself. There's no Croat.

[01:09:58] There's no Burgle. There's no, like no Dama. They're gone. This is our, no Christoph. This is our opportunity to make this what we want it to be. Yeah. And there's kind of two sides to that. One. Yes, you're right. You've cleansed the city of the bad people that you know of. And I'm pretty sure they've, they've explored that entire city at this point. There's no doubt in my mind.

[01:10:27] Because they've searched for survivors. They've brought on survivors. They've, and they've, like Manhattan's big, but it ain't that big. Yeah, exactly. It's big, but it's not crazy. Yeah. It's, you know, they've, they've cleansed this city as best as they can. Yep. But, you know, now we can make it what we want to be. Well, that's also what Kristoff and Burgle and the Croat and the Dama said. They were going to terraform the city into what they wanted it to be. Now they're saying the same thing.

[01:10:57] Now their intentions are clearly more well-placed. Right. Than any of those other people. They wanted to hoard and rule. Whereas these guys want to open the doors and be productive. Which I am going to go on record as a voice of the nation, much like POD asked us to be. I am not a fan of wide opening the doors to Manhattan.

[01:11:23] I think that is silly and ill-advised, but awesome narratively so that we have more things to talk about. But I, I have questions about, and we've already gone over this a thousand times, so I don't need to rehash it. But again, I just, we're going to see how that, how it goes from here. I'm okay. I literally, I legitimately just thought of this and this might change your opinion, but I don't know.

[01:11:52] So, let's go back in time to obviously the, the old world. We can't go back in time, Ben. The Statue of Liberty was a beacon. Yes, it was. Of people coming over from Europe, being brought in. It was a sign of hope of something to see when they entered our waters. And the first place they went to when they came in was Ellis Island. It wasn't New York. True.

[01:12:20] We don't know what their system is yet. So, by using the Statue of Liberty, you're not attracting people to New York. You're attracting them to that island. To Liberty Island. That's true. Okay. They're going to go to Liberty Island to see what's going on with the Statue of Liberty. They're not going to go to New York. They're going to Liberty Island because that's where it's lit up. So, what if that is the entry point? It's not a wide open door. You're coming in where we want you to come in.

[01:12:48] We have sentries placed along the water to protect us for anybody who does try to come in the other way. But if you want to come in under a white flag, like we're opening the door to you, you're coming in where we want you to. And that's Liberty and Ellis Island. Just like they did in the old days. And I like that. And I hope that that is the answer. So, what do you think is more narratively compelling? If the group we saw at the end of the episode that saw the homing beacon are friend or foe?

[01:13:18] We. I kind of want them to be friends. But be treated as like hostiles and have to like gain the trust. I don't know. I think it's too obvious if they're foes. We need an antagonist. We do need an antagonist. That's a great point. And literally they killed all of. But I feel like the antagonist is going to be the power struggle between Negan, Maggie and Renata for Maggie's soul, essentially.

[01:13:46] Like, I think that's the villain is the relationships we make along the way. And you might not be wrong. And if that's the case, that's something that The Walking Dead has never done before is make the struggle of rebuilding civilization the actual challenge of the episode. It's what you have to overcome.

[01:14:04] It's not a person like the governor or Negan at a time or, you know, any other over-sary that they've come across or like the Commonwealth or Terminus or anything like that. Then it was always a physical presence they had to overcome. This time it's actual prejudice. And it's that prejudice that comes with rebuilding society and the power struggle that comes with it.

[01:14:32] But that's an adversary that we've never seen in The Walking Dead before. And if that's what they're doing, I am all here for it. That'd be so cool. And I think you could do like episode of the week type things talking about the rebuilding and the restructuring while still like weaving in this narrative. Hell, Jericho did it. You know, they didn't necessarily have big bads so much as just how do we rebuild civilization after one of these moments? That's a great comparison of using Jericho because you're right.

[01:15:01] Jericho did have that. Jericho's primary plot was literally surviving. Absolutely. How do we create a windmill? How do we barter with the next town on the supplies we need for our people? What do we do when hostels do come against us? Well, we say peanuts and hope for the best. But you got to defend Stanley Richmond's farm one way or another, man. Damn it. Now we want to rewatch Jericho. It's got. And I just rewatched it last year. It's only two seasons. It's super quick.

[01:15:31] It's not even two seasons. It's one season. It's a season and a third. Right. Right. It's a season and a third. For anybody who has never seen Jericho with Skeet Ulrich and Timothy Olmanson and Lenny James and like all these other great people, if you are listening and you have never seen Jericho, like we said, it's only a season and a third. It's a full season, I think, of like 22 episodes and then an additional six.

[01:15:56] And the only reason they have the additional six was because CBS originally canceled it at the end of season one. But there was such an outcry from the viewers that CBS finally caved and said, fine, we're giving you six episodes to wrap this story and then we're done. And they did. And they did. And it was amazing. But the point I'm making is that if you get the chance, go watch Jericho because it is a fucking amazing series. It is.

[01:16:24] But my point was the main general conceit of those shows was survival. No, you're good. You're so good. And I think I think that could work in this show. And I can't wait until next week when we find out those people on the shore were just bad guys and we're just going to go by another paint by right for another season. This whole topic, we're going to find out that they have a leader and he's our new big bad. Right. So and I don't know, like, I think there are.

[01:16:50] I'm trying to think if there are other people that we got news on of people who have been cast in this season that we haven't seen yet. But I don't think there has. I don't think Jimmy Simpson was the big get. And that's. Well, Jimmy Simpson and Amy Garcia were the correct. Correct. Big signings for this season. Correct. And we've met them. I just I don't know. I'm excited. I'm excited to see where it goes from here. I'm excited not to have any external influence on this stuff. And I'm really excited, folks, fans out there to hear the feedback.

[01:17:20] I want to know what you guys think about the direction that this show is going in, what they've shown us, what it seems like they're doing narratively and what you think is going to happen with the rest of the season. Again, Ben, I have not watched any summaries of the season. We're not watching any of the on next week's Walking Dead, Dead City previews. Like we're going in blind as as Tommy. And I'm here for it. This episode is brought to you by Facebook.

[01:17:47] So you were scrolling on Marketplace and there it was the bike you've been searching for. You sent a message and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride this summer. Find more on Facebook.

[01:18:15] This episode is supported by FX's The Shards. A seductive drama from executive producer Ryan Murphy. Set in 1980s Los Angeles, the series follows a group of glamorous, deeply entangled high school seniors drawn into a life of wealth, beauty, parties and excess. At its center is Brett, whose reality begins to unravel when the arrival of a new student coincides with a series of mysterious murders. FX's The Shards premieres August 5th on FX and Hulu.

[01:18:44] Did you know Sam's Club isn't a store? It's actually a club with cool finds and like a whole community. It's a club. Of course, Jason. It's in the name. Sam's Club. Oh, yeah. Come join us. Sam's Club. And I'm looking too. Like, I literally just did the search. Yeah. The only three new cast members this year were Jimmy Simpson as Dillard. Yep. Raul Castillo as Luis and Amy Garcedi as Renata. So there you go. I really hope that's what they're doing.

[01:19:14] I didn't even think of that until we started talking about this. But like, you think about it, even Rick's had to brutally kill. So Rick bit the jugular of a guy that was immediately about to kill his family. He macheted to the brain our favorite cannibal that played Henry in season seven of Once Upon a Time. So like, he has absolutely killed when the situation called for it. And no, the governor couldn't have been saved.

[01:19:38] So I think making that one of those central questions of who is the judge, jury, and executioner, who does decide that, do we do that within our place, could be a very, very fun narrative structure as well as how do we rebuild? And what does it take to rebuild civilization like this? Yeah. What does it take to not even rebuild civilization, but just rebuild Manhattan? Yeah. Like. Start there and see if you can create a blueprint that others could follow.

[01:20:06] But that's going to be a big enough Herculean task. But I mean, like, if you think about it, too, like. If you were in Maggie's shoes, if you were in Maggie's shoes and Renata's shoes, like, yes, you are opening the doors and you are revealing by lighting up the Statue of Liberty that you have power. You have something that a lot of people crave. If I were in Maggie's shoes, there are still some things I would not fully reveal. Like, yes, we have power.

[01:20:35] However, we're not telling you how we have power. True. All you need to know is you have power. But the second you start. Okay. All right. Here's the here's the flip side because I thought of that argument. I did. But the second you start doing that, you are now othering your new inhabitants. Like, yes, you're in here, but you don't get to know everything. We we know what's best for you. And I'm not I'm being devil's advocate of you go into a place and the place is not being entirely forthright with you.

[01:21:04] They're not they're not truly letting you all the way in. Do you trust that? Do you feel like you are a welcome member of the society or do you feel othered? And is that going to cause dissension and uprising from within? No. And you know what? I do take back what I said, too, because now the more I'm thinking about it is like if power is such a huge resource in this world now that nobody that a lot of people don't have outside of like windmills and water and stuff. Water power is right like that.

[01:21:32] But being able to build these tanks and use and use walkers as a source, as a resource to provide something that you need. This is akin to a cure for cancer. If you have a cure for cancer, why would you keep it for yourself? You you you let it out to the world. So if Maggie and Renata and they have these plans to build these tanks and you want the world to be a better place, you legitimately want the world to be better and go back to the way it was before all this happened.

[01:22:01] Why would you not allow people to have that? Because the humanity question, because this isn't a cure for cancer, it's also potentially the energy for an atomic bomb. It's energy. So it can be very much evil. You're also giving the bad people this power. So that's why it's a double edged sword. That's the beauty of all this. And that's why I really hope that's the general conceit of is it's trust. It's all about who do you trust when and where and how and why? Yeah.

[01:22:30] Oh, God, this is what I've been wanting post regular series Walking Dead to feel like to feel like I had a nuance take or like that. We had things that we could look at and not really know 100 percent where they were going or what their intention was. And it feels I feel like we are in such good hands this season.

[01:22:52] I feel like it's almost like if the writers had this planned this entire time to get to this point. I find it kind of akin to now these are two to dynamic, dynamically opposed shows, but they they share the same similarity in. They're also very similar in that they're two shows that I've covered. Lost and Ted Lasso. Lost. Yeah, I know. Look at your face.

[01:23:22] You have me at Lost. You confused me at Ted Lasso. So so lost as in I'll get so Ted Lasso as in the writers knew this was going to be a three season story. They had it mapped out. And even though we're getting a season four, they had it was Ted Lasso was always meant to be a three season story. And they told the story the way they wanted to. Do I think that the writers and the showrunners of Dead City have this planned out to be like, oh, this is only going five seasons. No, they're going to take this as far as they can.

[01:23:53] But it's akin to Lost in that they know the direction they want to take it. They have it's outlined. It's just a matter of writing everything to get there. So when they wrote Dead City in season one, do I think in set in season one, they had this idea for season three? No. No. But I think once they got renewed for season two and they started telling the story of season two, they started looking ahead to season three, season four, season five.

[01:24:23] I think what we're getting now for season three was always an intention when they started writing season two. Okay. Okay. That this was always the landing spot. And you're right. Season two, for the most part, was a clearing off of the chessboard. It was a cleansing. And it again, even Ginny, even Negan's morality pet being put down was a cleansing of the storyline. And it was a cleansing of Negan. It was. It really was.

[01:24:52] And same with Annie and Joshua being able to hand wave them away and give them. And again, they have so many opportunities to bring things back if they need to in a heartbeat. But they also don't have to if they don't want to. Yeah. They're at a point where they don't have to. And I just want to all of the fans out there who are saying whatever you're saying, I want you all to know Ben and I are very much on the team that the Lost writers knew what they were doing and weren't just making things up as they go. So I know a lot of people on the internet like to throw that slander out here. We do not subscribe to that theory.

[01:25:22] We believe, okay, sometimes you put a foot on the island in season one and you wonder how you're going to get back there. And then boom, that's where Jacob lives. Okay. That works for me. Okay. So everyone can settle down. Just to correct you, the foot did not appear in season one. Was that season two? You're right. That was season three. Was that season three? The foot did not appear until season three. Because they had Desmond's boat and that's when they saw it when they were going around the island. All right. All right. Might be time for a rewatch there.

[01:25:48] And let me tell you, I, in covering that show on Revisited with Kristen, we converted a number of people who watched Lost and didn't think they knew what they were doing. And hearing us. Were you a convert on that? Dr. Jansen Ackles or whatever from Entertainment Weekly always acted like they had just kind of made it up. And he got to me in the early 2000s. You guys changed my opinion on that. Yeah.

[01:26:16] In our coverage and our breakdown of the episodes and like our going back and forth. And like we, there were a number of people who reached out and been like, you know what? Like I see a lot of the points you're making now that I didn't see before. Yep. So, and I'm, yes, I'm kind of convinced, but yeah. So I, I, I think the writers, again, not in season one. Correct. Season one was purely to set the premise. It was, it was, how do we bring Negan and Maggie back together in a logical way?

[01:26:45] How do we put them in a new spot? Right. And yes, can we make this? And I got to, so, so do you think that they always meant to clean house even Dama and Crow at the end of season two? And restart this whole story with a new flair?

[01:27:02] I think by wiping out Christos and Bruegel and, and a lot of the other big players last season, I think they, they had a plan that like, okay, we're going to move towards New York being a better place because we're wiping out all the bad. Do I think they had intentions of wiping out the Dama and the Croat as early as they did? Maybe. I, that I think is yet to be determined.

[01:27:26] Um, the whole cleansing of them in the very beginning of this season could have been a late as they were writing season three kind of decision. Um, but I think the overall premise of moving towards a better place was always there. Yes. And season two, I, I, I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. And I just, I, I've said it once, twice, three times a lady.

[01:27:53] I feel like we are in really good hands and I'm really excited to see where the rest of the season goes and what they do with Jimmy Simpson. Cause he's got, he's got more than what he's shown us and he's shown us a bit more this week. So I can't wait to see what comes next. My final question, because I'm, I'm looking at all my notes and I think we've covered a lot. We got all mine down. Yeah. Um, I, I think they gave us a little hint at something that they never revealed and I don't know what it is.

[01:28:21] Um, what was the deal with the frog at the end and him saying who? Someone left. Yeah. Someone left room 115 open. Yeah. It seemed so random, but still purposeful. And I don't know what that means yet. Um, but we shall see. And that is a big ass building. They have all to themselves. Now here, here's my question for you. Go on.

[01:28:49] Because you made a point earlier about how these Zeds are different. These ones didn't know how to walk. Like climb the, climb the scaffolding and everything. We do see that by the end of the episode, Dillard has removed the bar patrons and taken them upstairs. To his room. What if they are a little bit more intelligent and can open doors? That's fun.

[01:29:18] They are deep teeth. So they can't bite. But what they can do is they can show us what the local variants are capable of. I like that. I don't hate it. Because those doors were never opened until he moved them upstairs. You're right. The frog was let out. Or what if he's a schizophrenic and he opened the door? Who knows? Being alone for too long can mess with you. It could also be multiple personality. You're right. It could.

[01:29:47] And I can't wait to see. But I'm thinking what if these are Walker variants who in just being around humans and not being killed have been able to kind of watch and learn, albeit very primitive, they can't speak, but they have been watching.

[01:30:12] So what if they have learned, at the very least, how to open a door? That's exciting. I hope so. I hope so. I just want variants. I like the idea of variants. I like the idea of viruses mutating anyways, and they mutate differently depending on the environment. So it makes perfect sense that this gene or whatever it is that goes in, like, would mutate and would have different effects on a Zed.

[01:30:41] So, yeah. I don't know. I like it. I'm here for it. That's all I have for the episode. I just, I cannot sing its praises enough. My last note, the last note that I have is, like, if you could have seen the smile on my face at the end of this episode when Maggie and Renata flip the switch and the thing we see light up is the Statue of Liberty. Damn right.

[01:31:08] The smile on my face because I was like, oh, one, that's a great beacon of hope. Sure is. Because that's originally what the Statue of Liberty was. Damn right. And two, it lends more to my, to what I want to see is that eventually we're going to see Negan see the Statue of Liberty. I think he's taking Joshua there somehow in the series finale. I don't think he's going to see it. I think they've kind of written off Joshua and Annie at this point. Oh, I know.

[01:31:38] I know. I don't want them to, but it's probably for the best that they do. Oh, I will say, oddly enough, everyone I think has one movie they think of when they think of Statue of Liberty, right? Like, one iconic shot. Is there a specific movie for you that when you think Statue of Liberty, you're like, oh, that one. This is going to be the dumbest reference. Can't wait.

[01:32:02] But when I think of iconic uses, and I'm being careful when I say that. Gosh. If I think of the Statue of Liberty in pop culture, my brain immediately goes to Ghostbusters 2. I mean, what a great answer. That's a fantastic, I would expect nothing less from you.

[01:32:29] I go straight to the original X-Men movie, but Ghostbusters 2 is a phenomenal one. Just the way that they use Lady Liberty in that X-Men movie is phenomenal, and that's what I kind of want from this series. Like, if you're going to have Lady Liberty, let's use her, man. Yeah, exactly. So, it was a great way to end the episode by using the Statue of Liberty as that beacon of hope, and it made me, again, using it as a beacon of hope. It wasn't just a beacon of hope for the people living in that world.

[01:32:58] It, for me, was a beacon of hope for the direction of this season. But couldn't agree more. Could not agree more. Like, turn the lights on. Like, all right, LFG. Let's go. It's game time. Yeah, let's fucking go. Let's go. Any final notes on this episode before we kind of moving in to wrap things up? No, I can't wait to watch the next one. And I haven't felt that way.

[01:33:23] Honestly, even covering it last year, I enjoyed being able to look at it introspectively. I wouldn't say it was going to make my top five favorite shows that I do on this other show, but it might this year. It might. It's feeling good. Yeah. Top five shows is a pretty bold statement, but. I mean, look, to anybody listening right now, like, obviously, like, you know, Alex and I have our own podcast as well.

[01:33:49] And on mine, on Wilhelm, every year I do a top five favorite movies and a top five favorite shows of the year. And Alex is always one of the co-hosts with me on that. I'm not going to lie. There's a lot of shows out this year. There's a lot of really good ones. But if this season progresses the way it does in the direction that it's going, it's in contendership, man. It could, for the first time in three years, make my list. The ones that live did. So could this. But I don't know.

[01:34:19] I cannot wait to see where they go next because they a quarter of the way into the season. I'm in. And the sad part is there are still some people that are never find out how good this season could potentially be because they are so far against Negan that they refuse to watch it. Correct. But you know what? I saw in the Zed Head posting group, Jason put up a thing saying like, oh, you know, talking about Walking Dead, Dead City.

[01:34:46] And folks were like, yeah, like, I kind of want to watch season three, but do I have to watch season one and season two? I'm going to go out on a limb and let people know. If you don't want to watch season one and season two, you don't have to. You can pick up right with season three, episode one. And by the end of episode two, you're going to know all the characters you need to know because the only backstory is Negan, Maggie and Herschel. Everyone else is new to the season anyways. I can see that. And I can see.

[01:35:13] I mean, you'll definitely lose a little bit. You'll lose in. The how we got here. You'll lose in the how we got here, how Maggie and Negan are in the relationship that they're not. Oh, let me be careful about saying that. They're not in a relationship. The peer to peer. But but but not really, because the thing that always bugged me about seasons one and season two was at the end of Walking Dead proper, Negan and Maggie had pretty much squash shit and like we're ready to move on.

[01:35:39] So and I didn't feel like one and two did much more than set them back just to get them back to that spot. Maybe a little further along, maybe a little further along of their acceptance. But like, man, took two seasons to get that. I'll I'll say this. You can probably find you'll probably have to invest like an hour, but you can probably find a season one, season two recap on YouTube.

[01:36:03] That'll probably be like a 45 minute to an hour long video that'll give you the rundown of how Maggie and Negan got to this point and give you the rundown of the Dama, the Croat and everything in between. Watch that and you'll be perfectly good to start season three. Couldn't agree more. Could not agree more. So come along for the ride with us, guys. It is shaping up to be pretty fun. And if it ends up sucking my bad, but I don't think it's going to.

[01:36:29] So if you're yeah, so if you're if you're one of the people that I know, like listens purely for our coverage, but doesn't watch. I'm going to invite you to to try this time because of how good the season's shaping up. In fact, I will look for a recap video and I will put the link in the show notes of this episode. Oh, so that I will make the job easier for you. I will find a good recap of season one, season two.

[01:36:56] I'll put them in the show notes and I invite you to watch them and then join us for this ride for season three. Well, I like that. Oh, I like that quite a bit. And we'll see where it goes. That's good. So. But yeah, I think that's all I got for this one. That's it for me, brother. I think we did it. All right. Then that is our show. Episode 711.

[01:37:26] Thank you, everybody for listening. Next episode, feedback for this second episode of the season and then our breakdown of the Dead City, season three, episode three, Emigrants. If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can find all of our contact information at podcastica.com. And I want to just add with everything that we threw out there with the way the direction of the season is going and our theories of like who these people could be and that whole Ellis Island thing.

[01:37:55] Everything that we talked about. I really hope we get a lot of feedback, not just on episode three, but on what we discussed. Me too. Me too. That would be, that would feel good. That would just feel good, guys, you know? All right. And while you're at podcastica.com, please check out our other podcasts, such as Dragon Cast, where they're covering the final two episodes of House of the Dragon coming up and the Hey, Hey, Hey, Run for Your Lives podcast that just covered Insidious, The Last Key.

[01:38:24] So make sure to check them out. And not only that, but in between this episode and our coverage, Jason is going to be covering the next episode of Silo. Oh, yes. So actually, so kind of a little bit of a rephrasing. I know we said next episode is going to be us. We kind of have to backtrack because I forgot about this. Next episode of The Walking Dead cast is actually going to be Jason talking about the next episode of Silo.

[01:38:51] I'm vamping because he sent me that information and I didn't pull it up because I completely forgot about it. You know, while Ben's looking that up, I'm just going to quick plug my show. So if you are on the interwebs and you're looking for a podcast and you want to listen to two guys talk about the Philadelphia Phillies, hey, come check out the Quit Jason podcast. We are a little cheeky, a little reverent and always unqualified.

[01:39:14] But we also like to have fun and we're going to be doing the Field of Dreams movie recap episode to celebrate the Phillies in the Field of Dreams game coming up. And keep your eyes tuned for our Pitch Perfect 2 recap coming to you soon. Yeah, you guys do other stuff outside of the Philly stuff. So that's why I always like sending people your way and doing that. But yes, episode 712 of The Walking Dead cast is going to be Jason talking about the next episode of Silo.

[01:39:38] So we will be episode 713, which will be coming out right after the next episode of Dead Sea. But allow me to pitch my podcast for a moment as well, which is Wilhelm, which we talked about earlier. Alex has been on a number of times, as have a number of Zedheads have been on with me before. New episodes are in pre-production now. More top five episodes. If you're familiar with Dropout, I did an interview with Sam Reich, who is the CEO of Dropout not too long ago,

[01:40:05] which was a huge opportunity for me, and I was absolutely thrilled to have Sam on. And it was a great, great episode. There was a really cool moment that happens in it, but I'll let you go and listen to it for that. Welcome to Wilhelm.com is where you can find everything Wilhelm-related, including all the new episodes that are getting ready to come out. All right, then. That's our show. Thanks for listening. Don't get bit, Lynn Miles. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.

[01:40:32] Well, now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills. But it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for a 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms.

[01:41:04] Hey, everyone. I'm Matt McGorry. And I'm Jack Falahee. Or as you may know us, Connor and Asher from How to Get Away with Murder. And after 10 years, we are diving back into this dark and murdery world in our ultimate rewatch podcast, How We Got Away with Murder. And plot twist, I've never actually seen the show. Oh, I love a good plot twist. And if there's one thing I learned in fake law school, it's that the truth doesn't matter. Right. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. Or podcast, apparently.

[01:41:33] We're going to dive into fan theories, bring on cast and crew to discuss the show. And dig into the behind the scenes of what it was like to make this iconic series. Shall we say classes in session? I think Professor Keating would like that. How We Got Away with Murder premieres on January 22nd, 2026, wherever you get your podcasts.