713: TWD: Dead City S3E4 "Found/Lost"

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[00:01:27] Hmm? Ah! Hmm. Oh. Look, Megan, I know we got shit now, right? But our numbers are double what they were a few weeks ago. We keep letting these newcomers take all their resources. I got a family to worry about, man. All I'm saying. I'm at 24, by the way. You gotta take your shoes off to even count to 19. 24 my ass. You're 23, I'm at 24. But it's cool, you're doing great for your age.

[00:01:58] Oh. Oh. You are a sparky little bastard. Kind of proud of ya.

[00:02:39] What's up, Zedheads? Welcome to the podcast. I'm Ben. And I am Alex. And this is The Walking Dead 'Cast, episode 713. And this episode, we're covering The Walking Dead Dead City Season 3, episode 4, found slash lost. And as you just mentioned to us before we started recording, it's, it's, I can't believe that by the end of this episode, we're already halfway through the season. Whoa. We are halfway there.

[00:03:09] Whoa. We're living on a prayer. Oh, God damn it. Had to be done. You had to go there. It had to be done. I was sitting right there. I am going to grab the low hanging fruit, Ben. Well, we're not technically there yet because we got to get to the end of this episode of the podcast to get there. Give us 85 minutes. We will be there. 85 minutes. That's if we're lucky. I don't know. I feel like we, it's us. We're getting an hour and 25 at least. We got feedback.

[00:03:39] We've got this back. No, I meant like, I meant like under. Oh, okay. All right. So the over under. So for everyone on, on Calci, 85 minutes is the over under. Let's see. Can we make bets on our own podcast through Calci? Here's the thing. I am. I, so as a sports person, sports fan, I am so against the Calci and all that, this whole predictive market BS betting culture and world. I'm sure we could. And that's exactly the problem.

[00:04:08] You and I, who are completely in control of how long an episode lasts could have the influence and ability to bet on just that information and make sure it comes into where we need it to come into. It is, it is rife for fraud. Yeah, it is. Although had I made a bet that Schwarber's first at bat during the field of dreams game would have been a home run. I would have made a killing.

[00:04:35] I mean, so here's the thing to those of you that just watched baseball this week for the first time, only because it was on Netflix to feel the dreams game. You're like, what the hell is this? Where's Costner? Um, he was there. He was. Schwarber has a tendency. Kyle Schwarber. That is the big Gerber baby has a tendency to lead off games with a home run. But lately he, since the home run Derby has not exactly had the power hit.

[00:05:00] He has been, his back has been a little bit funky and it just recently came back on. He's has like four home runs in his last seven games. Um, so seeing Schwarber hit two rockets into a field of corn. I didn't understand how much I needed that as a core memory in my life, but I'm really happy. I got that. Like Jason worth hitting three home runs in, in, uh, the NLCS.

[00:05:27] And then Kyle Schwarber hitting two home runs into corn right up there with each other. Hey man, that second one was assisted, but it doesn't matter. It still counts. I'll take it. I'll take it. I love that. He was mic'd up, but we're not here to talk about baseball. I could do it all day. I was just going to say, welcome to Ben and Alex talk about baseball and a walking dead podcast. I, well, well now have you ever heard of Lucille bit of a baseball fan, our dear Negan?

[00:05:54] So there are ways to correlate the information. Sure. This is true. This is very, very true. And look, if they're like you said, I know not everybody is a Phillies fan, but I don't know what's wrong with them, but that's unfortunate. That's really unfortunate. Um, but you, like you said, if there was any game, multiple, multiple fandoms was watching last night, it was the field of dreams game because of what it was and what it represented. It's true.

[00:06:24] So, and our Phillies pulled out victorious. So they sure did. They sure did guys. That made me happy. But like you said, yes, we are here to talk about the walking dead, uh, dead city, which is so bad guys. I like, I cannot, here's the thing. If people still read articles and there were still people writing articles about TV, which they're not, there's AI bots to do it for EW and that's fine.

[00:06:51] But like people should know how back this franchise in this show is with this season of television. It is, I, I cannot stress it enough and I don't know how else to get the word out there, but it's so back. I'm now I'm gonna, I'm gonna preface this next thought by saying I, I still, and I'm not going to go into too many details because we got to get through feedback from episode three first before we start breaking down episode four. That's true.

[00:07:19] This is, I still really enjoyed this episode. It is not my favorite of the season. It was not my favorite so far. Oh, correct. This is far from favorite, but I think I am going to try my best to save my thoughts for the next 20 minutes. Once we get there after feedback from last week's episode, which I think probably was my favorite episode of the season so far. All right.

[00:07:46] So Ben remind our friends who are listening, what last week was all about. So last week was a lot of, I know I could just go back and read the summary from last week, but I want you to freestyle it from your memory bank. No, I mean to basically just sum it up and it's not spoiling anything now because we're already past it, but it was really what established what the core of what this season was going to be.

[00:08:12] And that's the reestablishment of civilization and dealing with all the consequences that come from it. It is dealing with new survivors that are coming in, how to deal with how some of those survivors may not get along with each other and how to get around that so that everybody can be cohesive. And, but also at the same time, we got a little bit of the pit thrown in because of everything. Jericho, baby. Yeah. And it, that was some of, man, I, again, we talked about this last week in the episode

[00:08:41] breakdown. It was some of my favorite storytelling that we have gotten out of not just dead city, but the walking dead general in a long, long time. Yes, absolutely. Yes. Um, and it, it's giving us good conversations. It's giving us good thought pieces. It gave us a great cliffhanger, um, that doesn't always need to be addressed right away. So I am, again, it, it's fantastic.

[00:09:09] And I say, let's hear what the folks have to say about it. Yeah. And that cliffhanger didn't get addressed this week either. It didn't even get sniffed at, which I think is delightful. We're going to get into it, but I'm really appreciating the artistry of storytelling and not feeling like they have to explain anything that they don't want to explain at that moment. I'm, I'm really appreciating that this season. Agreed. But like you said, we have feedback to get to for episode three.

[00:09:38] So let's get into that. And why don't you kick us off? Like you usually do. All right. You got it. First up, Julie, Hannah Palmer, Julie, thank you so much for answering a question that we had for the fans. We love feedback like that guys. You haven't drank the right champagne. Vuevu click quat. So delicious. Definitely not cat piss. I don't.

[00:10:03] I'm sure my negligent Irish American ass does not have any clue how to pronounce that. I'm assuming French champagne. Vuevu click quat. Oof. I got nothing. Watch you have gotten it like perfect. And wouldn't that be something? It wouldn't. I know. I, there's no way I did. But if I did, that'd be cool. Glossy. Here's the thing, Julie. And I, and I, I love the fact that you actually like that.

[00:10:32] Your feedback was in regards to us saying like, correct. And I will try it next. Oh my God, Ben. I'll try it on the next episode, depending on how much, how expensive it is. And if I can say in central Pennsylvania, like if this is, if this is some important shit, like love ya, we'll get to the Johnny Walker blue, but like, I'm not going to, but if it's reasonable, I will get some and I will try it on the next episode for Julie. Yeah.

[00:10:58] If I go to, if I go to, to the, to the, the liquor store and this bottle of champagne, if they even have it is like $125. It's not happening. It's not, if it's more than $20, it's not happening because I'm not going to spend more than $20. And again, nothing against the, what you mentioned, Julie, I actually appreciate you, you saying this. I, I can't merit. It's not that it's probably not worth it. I can't merit spending that kind of money on something.

[00:11:27] I might take one sip and not like. So, all right. So I hear that, but what if that's, what's been holding us back all this time is that we all won't spend more than $20 on champagne when you actually, if you spend $80 on champagne, it's gangster. So what I, I have never bought a bottle of champagne in my life. If I've ever had champagne, it's been at somebody else's celebration. Of course, which is definitely $10 bottles of champagne. Like, so fair enough.

[00:11:56] I've had, I've, I've gotten champagne for a couple of new year's is, but it's always like, um, oh, it's like Martini and Rossi. I think something like that. So it is the cheap shit, but you know, you mix it with something, the something spumante or spumante. Yeah. Like I said, I'm a, I'm a sparkling apple cider guy. It's one of the reasons why like you drink IPAs and I drink. God, I try to, I drink, I am a Bach.

[00:12:24] I drink IPAs when there isn't a nice heavy Bach available. I am a dark beer guy. Okay. But I mean, but I, I'm a cider guy. Like that's what I drink, you know, Cider man rules. Yep. It's cider house rules. Yeah. Um, but no, thank you Julie for that. And Hey, we'll look into it. Maybe I would look into the unpronounceable champagne. Yeah. Well, we'll see how it is.

[00:12:51] Ah, but as far as feedback goes, the next one comes from Dre Manani. Uh, just watched episode three last night and I'm enjoying the season more than season two. That's not hard. Uh, I am feeling confused about Negan. He seems to revert back to some old behaviors in this episode that made me question if he could really be a trusted partner, not romantic. Uh, to Maggie. His methods are a call back to old times with him and I'm not sure where he stands.

[00:13:16] Maybe that is part of the nuance of this season, but he has done a few untrustworthy things like killing the Dama and not telling Maggie. It's a shock to see Maggie being so earnest and optimistic. It's such a big shift for her character after several seasons of her being so shut down. I hope it works out, but I keep thinking to myself about the timeline of this show and how she has said no other community ever worked out for her.

[00:13:40] And I wonder what that means for Judith, Aaron, Ezekiel, all those we left behind in a seemingly new community post Commonwealth. I haven't done a deep dive on timeline, but I feel like dead city is set in the future. So wouldn't Rick have already returned prior to Maggie at the bricks? Okay, enough rambling. I'm intrigued and we'll keep watching and listen. That is it.

[00:14:05] I never really thought about where the whole Rick and Michonne show fits into the timeline as compared to dead city. Right. We we've discussed it, you know, tangentially. I might, I might, I might have a conversation with any one of any. A I bots to try to figure out where the timeline is, because I've seen amazing star Wars ones that really, you know, encapsulate a perfect way of showing you where everything is.

[00:14:34] But I would like to see one for the walking dead universe. When you really think about it, we're talking what? 30, no, not 30, but maybe 20 to 25 seasons worth of television between proper fear world beyond all the post proper spinoffs. Like there's been a lot of seasons of television. I wouldn't mind seeing where they all kind of land on the old, um, on the old timeline. Cause I, I don't know.

[00:15:01] I don't know where this is compared to Daryl and compared to Rick and Michonne. I don't. So I actually did just look it up. Um, I know I saw you. That's why I was vamping. I was vamping hardcore, baby. Thank you for that. Um, so the, the walking dead, the ones who, who live connects Rick and Michonne right after season 11. So that takes place literally right after the end of the walking dead. So when they are in the helicopter coming back, that is like two weeks after we just heard culture personality.

[00:15:31] We just blew up the Commonwealth. Yes. Okay. Um, walking dead, Daryl Dixon picks up roughly 18 months after the finale. So walking dead, Daryl Dixon takes place after the ones who live with season one of walking dead, Daryl Dixon. Yes. Uh, the walking dead, dead city represents the furthest current point in the future. Okay. So dead city does take place after the ones who live.

[00:15:55] So there is potentially a chance that we could see any of these surviving walking dead characters pop up in New York city. But, uh, but to, but to Dre's point. Okay. So what Maggie said was none of her previous hometowns have survived up until now, meaning, and I don't quite recall where did Maggie call home at the end of walking dead proper? Because that didn't survive by what we've learned here.

[00:16:23] And I think that's what Dre's trying to say is like, so which of those communities at the end of walking dead proper was Maggie a part of? Because it didn't, it didn't stand. And if this is the farthest ahead that helps, which my guess is the hilltop. I would think is where Maggie ended up unless she went back to, um, I forget the place where the Reavers were, but that place. Uh, uh, yeah, I think so.

[00:16:53] There's some like Meridian Meriden, some shit. Maybe I'm thinking Friday night lights, but yeah, something like that. Merida. That might be brave. Anyways. That's brave. Yeah. What a great movie. And I think, and I think Friday night live was Friday night lights was Riggins. No, that was the player. That was the movie. That was yes. I'm not going down that. That was Dre. Thank you. You brought up some great points that I'm really excited to, to have talked about. Hey man.

[00:17:20] Like I, next weekend, I, at the time you're hearing this next weekend, I'll be talking to Ross about a lot of this stuff. So true. I might be able to get some insight from Ross. If there's ever been any kind of talks as to like Aaron showing up in, in dead city. And if he, if he kind of reveals that there have been that, that gives us a little bit of insight that, you know, Aaron, who. Dre mentioned could still potentially be alive. We don't know what happened to Aaron or Ezekiel.

[00:17:50] So funnily enough, hilariously enough. All right. At the end of walking down proper, the cast member that I think makes the most logical sense to end up happenstanceably in New York is Aaron. By definition, he's always been that go out and find guy. And he had nothing other than his daughter tying him to a community when he left.

[00:18:15] Well, I mean, if you look at walking dead proper, it was usually Aaron and Jesus that went out and tried to recruit and scope and everything like that. So you're kind of right. Yeah. If there was and Daryl. So if there were anybody that would be out there wandering and see the statue of Liberty lit up, it would be Aaron. A hundred percent. So I don't know. That could be fun. That could be fun. We'll see. We will. We will find out. Moving on. All right. That's me.

[00:18:45] Next up, we have Deborah Omer. Hi, Ben and Alex. I'm enjoying how y'all are doing the coverage of Dead City this season. The going in blindly is cool, and it's refreshing to hear the optimism for this show. It seems like Renata leans into Maggie's lighter side and Negan to her darker side because she can be both extremes. They all have strong views and handle everything differently, but all three can talk it out together. So they turned on the light and now they got to deal with Jersey turf wars.

[00:19:14] That was intense. But really, Miguel and Herschel stepped up to all of Herschel see all the Herschel senior callbacks in this episode were so sweet. It was nice seeing him again. I think you guys are right. And this season is shaping up to be their test and trials of how to rebuild a society and live. Y'all have a good one and take care. Now you hear? I added. Now you hear. And it felt right. It felt right. It did. It did feel right by Miguel. Did she mean Louise? I'm pretty sure she meant Louise. Okay.

[00:19:44] When she said Miguel, it made me think of Cobra Kai. Yes. That's where I was. Awesome. Yeah. Now I'm like, I was like, wait a minute. I'm like, I don't think there's a Miguel in, in dead city. I think she met Louise real quick of any member of Cobra Kai who's still alive this long into the ZI Johnny. Yeah, he would eat anything and he would probably end up. Okay. I like it. He, he would somehow by the skin of his teeth survive.

[00:20:13] I was thinking Tori. I feel like Tori would also survive and she would be a leader of a community. So I think Tori is a survivor as well. Uh, Mary Mouser. Um, Mary Mouser. Love you to death. Dead by day four. Same with Daniel. Oh dude. Daniel son is not made for a zombie apocalypse. No, absolutely not. Sorry. No, Johnny and Tori, I think are the proper answers to that. Oh man. Um, maybe Hulk. I can see. I can see.

[00:20:43] Okay. Cause he is smart and he is. He, okay. You know what? Actually, actually, Eli Moskowitz. We are. Yeah. Eli Moskowitz would actually be a really good survivor because he is extremely smart. Wait, Hulk is Eli. Dimitri's the friend. Oh yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Eli and. You're onto something. Okay. Sorry, Deborah. We went, we went down a fun little side path, but, um, I agree with literally everything

[00:21:13] you said, especially that Jersey turf fours are the absolute worst. And I, and I like the idea because I kind of see it too of, you know, we're not a leaning into Maggie's lighter side and Negan leaning into the darker side. It kind of makes Maggie, the yin yang of the group. Yeah. Because she, she does kind of take elements from both. I, and, and I've really enjoyed watching that watching Renata be the angel. And he can be the devil and seeing Maggie be the one to ultimately decide which, which way to lean into things.

[00:21:42] And the episode we're going to end up talking about, I think makes that statement even more complicated and more compounded in a very compelling way. So I do have an interesting. Symbolistic theory about a scene in the, in episode four, but we will get to that when we are super excited. Yeah, we will, we will get to that. Uh, but thank you again, obviously, uh, Deborah for that moving on. We've got Christie basement.

[00:22:12] I thought it was refreshingly engaging. And even for a little while there, it kind of felt like the pit meets the walking dead with all of the emergency room action. Yep. We talked about that a lot. I love how they are driving the new storyline forward. And I found myself in the unfamiliar, but welcome position of being on the edge of my seat for what comes next week. I am concerned with how Dillard is legitimately hearing the walkers talk to him. Aren't we all? Yeah. I am.

[00:22:42] If you had told me last season that I would feel this way about the show, I would have thought you were nuts. It was so dark and claustrophobic before and unnecessarily rehashed the Maggie Negan and not, uh, animosity after they had wrapped it up in an appropriate way in the walking dead finale. This story reboot is the best thing they could have possibly done. I love the memory of Scott Wilson's Herschel in the episode.

[00:23:08] As a side note, the reason the statue of Liberty is all dilapidated and beat up and broken is because the government firebombed the major cities during the fall. Napalm will do that to his statue. Thank you. Thank you. Well, see your show. I she's right. Well, I don't necessarily agree with that because they firebombed New York City. The statue of Liberty is not in New York City, but it is on an island outside of the city.

[00:23:36] But Luis mentioned seeing them napalming and bombing where he was and where he was was adjacent to the the statue of Liberty because they are able to light it up from where they're at on the hospital. So like I there's no doubt in my mind because Luis said he saw it. So in this episode when he was talking to Maggie that we're going to end up reviewing. Oh, no, I remember. Yeah. Yeah. But so that makes me think it totally plausible that there was because I also don't know how napalm works.

[00:24:05] So maybe like enough of it splashed around that. I love that answer for what happened to the statue of Liberty and I accept it without question. I think if the if this if Liberty Island was napalmed Statue of Liberty would have come down. You know what? Lady Lady Liberty is stronger than you give her credit for Ben. Okay. Napalm would have melted that statue down. I am not a scientist. Napalm burns that hot enough. Yeah. But I just I loved it. Yeah.

[00:24:33] Napalm burns that hot that the Statue of Liberty would not be standing if Liberty Island got me. I nothing. I appreciate the theory. Christie. I'd I don't believe it. Mythbusters. There's your challenge getting a poem and New York find out. Will it melt? You know what? I'll be seeing Adam Savage in November. So I will it melt. I'll ask him. Did you ever watch will it blend back in the day? No. Is it a drinking show?

[00:24:59] No, I was in college like so we're talking somewhere between 2005 and 2009 YouTube was just figuring out what it wanted to be. And there was some guy that was like a blender salesman. And what he did was he would he would just host these 45 second clips called will it blend and he would throw different stuff in his company's blenders and see and it was just so much fun for a bunch of stone college kids to watch like glow in the dark marbles. So much fun. Will it blend? It will guys. It will. I'm sure they're still on YouTube. They are. There's no I will have to look them up.

[00:25:29] Yeah. All right. Coming in next, we have grippy double. No walking dead without an obvious big bad. Almost unheard of since TWD season three. Right. The sickness hit right when the sickness hit or season five between Terminus and Alexandria. I definitely liked the way they purged all the baggage from previous seasons. The Dharma and Pearly, the Dama and Pearly were characters I never cared for simply because they were extremely unoriginal. Jimmy Simpson.

[00:25:57] I like he had a pretty good death at the hands of Russell Crowe and unhinged. I hope the story leads Dillard to kill one of the main characters, Maggie, Negan or Herschel or some other major character. Goddamn, grippy. I feel like Dillard is a degree off of where Princess was when Eugene, Yumiko and Ezekiel founder. I did read that Beth will only appear in a flashback and not actually in New York City. As far as potential couples, why can't people find their new bestie and leave it at that?

[00:26:27] Why do they always have to be a couple? Daryl, Carol, Daryl, Beth. A character storyline doesn't always involve finding that special someone. Ted Lasso. Having survival being villain is an awesome idea and leads to blue sky storytelling that can even not involve Maggie and or Negan and also be an anchor point for other characters from other spinoffs. I was surprised at the normality of the episode, but you guys really emphasize how monumental it actually was.

[00:26:56] And I found myself agreeing wholeheartedly. Prediction of Negan's wife and kid making an appearance later and having it mean something. A bullet like that is not something the storytellers will shoot carelessly. Couldn't agree more. By the way, I thought the idea of Lucille 2.0 where it electrified was dumb. Very, very dumb. Like saying Superman is even more powerful and strong. Yawn. Thanks. Bye.

[00:27:21] Um, so I think, um, Beth actually will be in New York because it's not a flashback. It's, it's kind of like sideways sideways. What could have, and I actually have a point in my notes about what this episode kind of is, is leaning me towards with that. Yeah. I actually wouldn't be surprised if that episode is coming up relatively soon. I, okay.

[00:27:46] Given where this episode ended, a part of me wonders if it's how they start the second half with a flashback. Like if, but I don't know, this week was kind of a breather week up until the last couple of minutes. Yeah. Maybe they're not going to do two breathers in a row. All right. Nevermind. No, it's going to be some penultimate bullshit. Oh, it's going to be some penultimate bullshit. A lot of TV shows have been doing these one-off flashback episode penultimates when you're

[00:28:14] supposed to do the battle of the bastards or the battle of blackwater in the penultimate. Okay. That's what penultimates are for. Yeah. And, and you know what? I, I could see it being the penultimate episode. And if that is the case, you know, I, I don't know if, if that's what it ends up being. Dude, I trust them with whatever they're doing. I trust the story they're telling. They have earned that from me. I trust them.

[00:28:43] I'm, I'm fully on board for whatever they decide to do. Um, this season I'm looking up, there is a full listing of, of episodes. Um, I haven't been looking ahead at names or, or I just, I want to be as surprised as I can be as they come, you know? Yeah. Yeah. The only reason. Oh yeah. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you which one I think it is. I'm not. Okay. I'm not.

[00:29:09] But I mean, again, this goes into what we said before is like going in blind is that if it is the next episode, we're not looking at coming attractions for the episode. No, we don't know. No, but if it was a, if it was an episode of game of Thrones, you know what it would be called? The farmer and the coach. Jesus. I'm awesome. I'm moving on. All right. Next. That's you guys brother. The perfect lunch combo.

[00:29:39] That first bite of your favorite sub followed by ice cold Pepsi. Add a couple of friends. And now that's next level. Suddenly the laughs get louder. The stories keep flowing and the food tastes better because Pepsi brings out more flavor, more fun, and more of the moment. Food deserves Pepsi. Grab a Pepsi zero sugar today. At Sock Doc, we know being a healthy adult is like living in a video game.

[00:30:06] Every day has side quests, taxes, laundry, birthdays, and just when you're leveling up, you have to book a doctor. The insurance portal crashes. They put you on hold. Your doctor doesn't take your plan. Game over. We see you. So we made booking a doctor easy. Download Sock Doc. Search by specialty, insurance, and availability. Book instantly. No cheap codes required. Find a doctor you love with Sock Doc. See you. Avatar Fire and Ash is now streaming on Disney Plus.

[00:30:36] It's the film critics are calling the best Avatar yet. Go, go, go, go. A true epic and completely jaw-dropping. This is the only pure thing in this world. Return to Pandora on Disney Plus. It will be an adventure for the whole family. And watch the Oscar-winning phenomenon at home. This is sick! Avatar Fire and Ash. Now streaming on Disney Plus. Rated PG-13. Yeah, we're moving on to email feedback now. And this one comes from Zachary Singer. And Zachary says,

[00:31:06] Hello, guys. This episode was awesome. Agreed. Felt like such an old school season one, season four, Walking Dead. I really like that all the decisions the characters are making make sense. I also love the pace of this season. In previous spinoff seasons, I felt like they would have taken the whole season to tell the new, to tell the same story Dead City has told in these 30 episodes. But something Maggie said caught my interest. I've been in so many places that have failed.

[00:31:34] I know she was referring to the farm, the prison, and maybe Hilltop Alexandria. But maybe since the show takes, uh, takes place so far in the future, is there a chance that the Commonwealth failed? We just don't know it yet. Thanks for hearing my thoughts. Loving this season, Zach. Yeah, we were just talking about that, that the Commonwealth could potentially be in that list of places she's talking about. This is exactly why I love our listeners, man. The same label wavelength. Like they get it. They're, they're right there with us. I love it.

[00:32:04] Oh, thank you. I love that so many of our listeners are agreeing with us in that this is the best this show has been and might be some of the best The Walking Dead has been. You know, Ben, as an elder millennial, anytime someone gives me praise, I just, I feel very, very good about life. So yes, I am agreeing with that. Um, speaking of dedicated, dedicated people, Ben, I did not scroll to see. Good. You get the challenge this week to see if he says something. I sure do.

[00:32:34] So folks, I did not know because Colin lied to us and said that he wasn't going to be able to keep up with us. I don't know if he has, but we have feedback from him. I have not seen it before this exact moment. Mini, mini, mini, mini, Ming. Let's see if I can do this. Colin Stillwell says, I guess I'm a liar, liar pants for hire guys. I've been on a boat in the Pacific for a week.

[00:32:59] And we actually stopped at a port in Canada where I had actual cell service enough to watch the episode. I couldn't help, but think about episode two of the walking dead proper. When Negan says she made her choice, much like Andrea told Lori after Beth cut herself, but with different results. And that started the whole fan service theory. I have, we got Herschel senior showing up in a flashback. We know Beth is coming later this season in alternate universe flashback.

[00:33:27] And we got the pocket watch that miraculously survived the show better than Glenn did after receiving it. Maybe it's the new orange backpack. Anyways, I'll be back right as rain next week, but I can't say the same for dead dime Dama that Dillard's got locked up in his room. Peace and prosperity from the Pacific. See us. You got a little easier of an alliteration. I got a super easier alliteration this week.

[00:33:53] I got, I got a softball dead dime Dama that Dillard's got like, please. That is buddy. I have been reading Dr. Seuss to my children for at least 12 years. Now I can take on red fish, blue fish, like a champ. Give me something challenging. Colin. Come on. So I was going to say, so basically you're telling challenge, you're telling Colin to step up the challenge down. And Ben, as the keeper of feedback, you have the ability to tell me when it's my time to get the red, because I know.

[00:34:23] And here's the thing. Like I did this week summary, which we'll get to. And if Colin challenges me whenever I do my next summary, I'll, I'll, I'll rhyme the shit out of that one. I will. I'll freestyle like I'm an M and eight mile baby. Put some alliteration in the summary. Hundo P Hundo P. Uh, I really liked Colin's callback to the, the Beth and Andrea piece.

[00:34:47] Um, if you thought the Herschel senior flashback was fan service, wait till you see this week. Uh, but I don't care because this is Maggie story and this is Negan story and Maggie story contains Herschel and it contains Glenn and it contains Beth. And I, I, I, I am loving this side of Maggie that we're getting.

[00:35:10] And this trans, this metamorphosis of her character in a way that we have not been allowed to see her since she hung Gregory. We haven't seen this version of hopeful Maggie and we're going to get to it in this episode, but like, damn, like I, I'm loving what Lauren Cohen is being allowed to do this season. I just had a scary thought that I don't know if I like it. Oh boy.

[00:35:37] I, so as you mentioned with the, in episode three, we got the Herschel flashbacks. We did this episode. We're going to dive into it a little bit more, but we get Glenn flashbacks. And like you said, we know we're getting a Beth alternate. There's a lot of focus on foot on Maggie's backstory this season. A lot of times when this kind of stuff happens, it's one of two things. It's a metamorphosis into a new character or it's a closure of a character before writing them off.

[00:36:08] Could this be a closure that we're going to lose Maggie by the end of this season? All right. So it's so much more likely that between the two of them, it's metamorphosis over closure. It's definitely metamorphosis over closure. Negan is the one that of course he's going to sacrifice himself to save blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And if, if, if someone's going to die, it's Negan, it's not Maggie. So let's not even entertain that.

[00:36:36] That's the way everything about JD have like, of course, he's going to take the big sacrifice play. If someone's going to, they're not going to, they're not going to leave Herschel with no parents. They're not going to do that. Oh yeah. That's a, that's a good point. All right. All right. That's a fair point. I love where your head went, but I just, I, I think this is a metamorphosis story for Maggie, especially after. Episode four.

[00:37:00] But yeah, my, my brain skewed from walking dead into game of Thrones territory there for a minute. And I don't know if I liked it. We've been intermingling and do you know what? There hasn't been any incest yet on this show. So that's something. Well, now that we know, we don't know how related the zombies, the walkers are that, that Dillard's diddling. Diddling. There's a, there's some alliteration for you. We don't know that Dillard's diddling the dead. Sorry, Colin. You're, you're rubbing off. You.

[00:37:30] Oh, we have a voicemail though. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for moving on. Uh, we do have a voicemail this week. And of course that comes from our good friend, Steve Brown. So let's play that now. Hello, Ben and Alex. This is Steve. And this is for the walking dead dead sea season three, episode three. E migrants. That's how it's pronounced. Right. Oh, is he playing with Magus Dillard? Oh, I hope that's CGI. Is there a girl on the stage dancing on the pole as well?

[00:37:59] I didn't catch that before. Oh, the question of the season. Did the Dama kill herself? Did Negan kill her or what? Oh, Negan's trying to teach Dillard to become a fighter. Zombie fighter. Hey, I had to back it up cause I missed the dick talk. Yeah. Did somebody just shoot up a flare? So people are not arriving at Liberty Island. Apparently they're just arriving on Manhattan Island. Oh, how close is Newark to Manhattan? I don't know New York geography. Interesting triage rules, green, purple, and red ends. Oh, so that's an interesting dilemma. You have two groups fighting each other. Don't know which one is good or bad. Ooh, what is Negan doing?

[00:38:29] What's that going to do to the two leaders? Oh, Herschel just did that surgery pretty easily. Whiskey and Tang, who do they figure? Oh, it's a hard choice they got to make, but we still don't know what Negan's doing with the leaders. Weren't you guys just talking about the three questions? Now Negan's bringing them up. He's not going to ask questions. He's going to play a game. Hey, this is a very confusing scene. Dillard, who couldn't just bash in the head of a zombie, is about to possibly kill these two people blindfolded. And we see the speed at which dead people change. It just depends on what we need from the story. Oh, good throw, Herschel.

[00:38:58] Well, Dillard at least killed a zombie and it's good to get out of town with you, man. I think Luis just got bit. Oh, good timing for the power coming back on. And I guess Luis wasn't bit. So they're going to try to get these groups to work together. Oh, it's not live together, die alone, but here together we live. I mean, they are on an island, right? Oh, so the two leaders killed each other. Oh, is that the same watch that Herschel gave to Glenn that now Maggie's given to Herschel? I'm getting choked up just watching this scene between Herschel and Maggie.

[00:39:25] Oh, Negan turned the bar into a bar. No, Dillard, don't say I'll be right back because you know what that means. Oh, so we see that he actually is delusional. Oh, and of course, that's where it ends. All right. On to next week. So first things first, Newark is legitimately a 20 minute drive to New York City. So it is not it is not far at all. All right. All right. Legit. Yeah. And that's that's with traffic.

[00:39:52] So without traffic, you could probably make it from Newark to New York in 10, 15 minutes. All right. So, yeah, because it's about like a 20 minute train ride, too. So post apocalypse walking wise, probably like two hour walk to it's a couple. It's a couple hour walk. Yeah. I mean, we think about the cave in the beach and lost was a five mile walk. And like, so, you know, that's that's that's well. Same. And we were also talking last week about the the distance between like Hilltop and Alexandria and Commonwealth.

[00:40:22] Like one was in Virginia. The other was in Ohio. If they could do that, then Newark to New York City is nothing. Jump change. Jump change. Um, so can I production question, Steve, and I'd like you to somehow answer this without taking too much time. But I've always wondered when you're recording your feedback, do you just have it like do you just have an audio file that is recording for an entire hour and then you cut it down

[00:40:49] for us or do you like have something ready to go and then you hit a button that actively records for the thought and then it stops recording? Like, do you do you have possibility or do you go in after the fact and take out all the dead space? Love to answer. I can answer this question as a as somebody who has been in production for a long time and has sound engineering background and everything. I can tell you right now and Steve, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I don't think I am.

[00:41:18] He it's a lot of play and pause. Okay, you could you can hear it. You can hear the transition in his voicemails. I did. I always didn't know if that was just like a pause and then it comes back or if that was a, you know, cutting it down and and you know, because and I can tell you what it is. It's the the microphones on phones are so good now that that that kind of thump that you hear every time like it plays and pause. That's actually the sound of his thumb hitting the phone. Oh, dip.

[00:41:48] Okay, because the microphone on the phone is picking that up. I like it. I like it. Yep. So if I'm wrong about that Steve, please let me know in the next episode, but I don't think I am. I think that's probably how it is. My kind of confidence, Ben. I love that. And what was the other thing I was going to mention to there was something else he he brought up? Oh, the with the thing with Dillard because we didn't talk about this last week. We didn't talk about Pinata at all.

[00:42:15] But we do kind of get an answer to the question as to why he's okay killing them and not zombies not walkers by the end is that he actually thinks of walkers as living beings in his own little way. Yes, yes, he does. But he's still willing to kill actual living beings over beings that aren't living, but he thinks they're living. Like there is no doubt in my mind that Negan told him, look, you're just going to be swinging this thing around.

[00:42:42] If you get too close to him, like I'll save it because he did catch it at the end when he did get too close. But like you're just here to scare him. You're don't you're going to be fine. You're not going to kill anybody. Just do it. And so he did it. I had a thought about oh, so the entire Pinata scene. I'm so sad I didn't say it last week. So thank you, Steve, for giving us a reason to talk about this week. It reminded me of Better Call Saul.

[00:43:06] And the episode literally titled Pinata, where they hung a few guys up and scared them by bashing pinatas with a bat. It just it was a delightful little reference. I felt like and I loved it. So thank you for bringing up, Steve. OK. Yeah. I never watched Better Call Saul. So I know I I watched break better than Breaking Bad. Really? I will die on that hill beyond a shadow of a doubt. Yes.

[00:43:35] Breaking Bad not only was one of the best at the top fiver. That's how good Better Call Saul. So Breaking Bad is a great action drama. Better Call Saul is one of the best character studies I have ever seen executed in television ever by far. The descent from Jimmy McGill into Saul Goodman into Gene Takovic and back around like all of it is just it's so beautifully placed.

[00:44:05] Rhea Sehorne in this show is an absolute godsend. It's it's it is a must watch. OK, I will add it to my ever growing list. I know I will in 2036. I will tell you and you will appreciate this. I will be starting Widows Bay during my trip to Colorado.

[00:44:32] I will be watching it in the airport and on the plane while I am traveling to Colorado next weekend. Enjoy. You're going to have fun with that as your as your infotainment when you're trying to like, you know, come down from the hype of it all. And yeah, good times. I'm looking forward to it. I am looking forward to it. I'm excited. Um, but thank you to everybody who left us feedback for episode three. And we look forward to you guys leaving us feedback for episode four.

[00:44:56] But with that being said, it's time to dive into that and dive into Dead City season three episode four found slash lost. Alex, give us the summary this week. Alrighty. On this week's episode, we slow things down a bit and join Maggie and Luis on a road trip to barter with a new player, the trader for medical supplies. Maggie and Luis form a close bond as they travel and share in both their similarities and differences.

[00:45:24] As the trader checks with her sources to verify the Zed methane process, Maggie and Luis stumble upon a group of peaceful Presbyterian survivors. As Mackie offers everlasting power to anyone who will listen, village leader Gerald declines the opportunity to welcome the old world luxuries into his people's new world. Speaking of new world for the first time since presumably season two of the OG series, Maggie imagines what moving on could look like. And it looks mighty fine in this lighting.

[00:45:52] Meanwhile, Renata tries to woo Negan to their community, citing his bravery and usefulness to the cause. Negan accuses Renata of using this offer as a means of coercing Negan into playing nice. So Renata doesn't reveal that he murdered the Dama. As Maggie and Luis make their way home, an earthquake strikes at the pantry, separating me, Maggie and Negan from the rest of the group as the screen fades to black. So. I'll save it.

[00:46:20] I'll save it for when we get to it. Because I have thoughts on the whole quote unquote earthquake. Oh, shaking the foundation of the Alliance, perhaps. I don't believe. I don't believe it was an earthquake. I think it was just a weak foundation. It was a sinkhole. We know we it was a sinkhole. Yeah, I don't. You're from Jersey. You've seen septa buses get swallowed up on broad, man. Yeah, it's it's nothing new.

[00:46:47] It's and we heard Luis talk about it. So, yeah, I don't think it was an earthquake. Plus, we know that there's movement underground because we know there are walkers down there. Absolutely. That's what I was. I was expecting some lost of us season one, you know, just walkers. What'd I say? Lost of us. Awesome. Last of us season one with like just walkers coming out of the ground and chasing them, which maybe there's a chance. But no, I loved it. Loved it.

[00:47:16] Well, I mean, we if you look closely enough at the end of that scene, there are subway cars under there. So we know it's a subway line that collapsed, which I find fascinating because that has to be very purposeful. That they put that in there. Yeah, probably. Um, what confuses me is I think subway cars run deeper than that. I don't think they're that shallow, but it was also an overhead view of it. So we don't know exactly how deep it collapsed. That is a great point. We don't know how deep it went.

[00:47:45] But we'll get into that. We'll get into that. We sure will. So as I mentioned, kind of at the top of the episode or towards the top of the episode, again, this is not I enjoyed this episode for everything that we got out of it. But my notes are very light for this episode. And this was not my favorite episode of the season. Um, I definitely, like I said, enjoyed it. And there are some great things that come out of this episode.

[00:48:10] And it's still a very hopeful episode because there are times like there were times throughout this episode I'm watching and I'm like, oh, like this. Things are going way too good for way too long. Something bad is going to happen. And then it never does. At least during the Maggie Louise part of the story. So like that was where I expected things to go to turn and they never did. So I'm not disappointed by that at all.

[00:48:40] Let's let's break down that fact right now, because I have so many points really tied into that. But there's something about and I don't know if this is Walking Dead proper. I don't know if it's dead city. I don't know if this is when I read USA Today. But like there is something that conditions me so hard so that when I meet a guy like Gerald, I am so mistrusting that I am just waiting for him to turn into Garrett from from Terminus. Terminus forget Gerald the traitor.

[00:49:07] Like I have instincts from the from the moment we met the traitor. I had those instincts. The second I heard that. OK, here's how insane this show has gotten me. The moment I heard the name the traitor and they explain what the traitor does. I immediately thought to myself, hmm, traitor and traitor are homophones. So what if the traitor is being set up to be someone that traitors them? Yeah, like you're right. It could have been one of two ways that that went.

[00:49:37] And, you know, the moment we meet this person and she wants their van and everything else, I'm like, yeah, this sums not right. This isn't going to go well. And then while she's gone, Gerald comes the door and like and he wants to take them back to his encampment. And I'm like, oh, like, don't do that. Something's not right. You're right. We're so trained in the way this show has treated us in the past that we automatically are conditioned to believe something is not right. Something's going wrong.

[00:50:06] Something's going to go wrong. But then we go, we follow Gerald and it turns into a celebration. And like we meet all these great people and it's like, OK, maybe this isn't as bad. And he's like, we always have a party during the full moon. Well, that doesn't sound right. That sounds right. Kind of thing. Absolutely. And then you're passing around a chalice and dunking Oreos in some sort of a random liquid. Yeah.

[00:50:32] Like, this is cult like and it's like, which it's not they're dancing and they're having a good time. And I mean, they're back at the cabin and the trader comes back and she actually has the all their goods. And I'm like, what is happening? So how many times did you watch the episode? Just once.

[00:50:51] OK, I so I watched it once, slept on a few days and then I just watched it again, knowing that there is no bad news that comes, knowing that everything works out in the end and watching it the second time. It's really giving us. And the thing I guess I really appreciate about it was in the past. I'm not convinced we got this level of slow burn character study story on Dead City specific.

[00:51:20] You know, I don't think we have it all. It always just felt like we were racing the next action set piece or the next zombie blah, blah, blah. But we are really getting a good character study and what they're doing with Maggie. And again, the way that they're they're giving her the opportunity to truly investigate what looking forward looks like a way that she hasn't since Glenn died and imagining what that could really be.

[00:51:50] I really just I love what they're doing with this. I love the story they're telling us. Yeah, no. And you're right. I mean, again, like I said, like we're so ingrained to automatically mistrust anybody that we meet and to go through an entire episode where we meet multiple people. And there's really no reason to mistrust any of them. They all lived up to their word.

[00:52:14] They were all like if everybody was genuine to what they said they were like, it's never happened before. And it it kind of gives you just like Maggie and like Renata and Luis and and Herschel like it gives you genuine hope that. OK, like they could really build something here.

[00:52:41] The only scary part about this is the fact that the one thing they had that could make or break what they are or what the world could become, which is the blueprints for the tanks is now officially out in the world. And that is it's out there. Hmm. That is.

[00:53:03] And this is this is, again, why what they're doing with this show is so different from what I've seen them do before, because they are really asking the question of rebuilding the new world. OK, the zombie apocalypse has happened. We have enough structure and enough know how enough time has passed that like, OK, the dead are a part of the story, but it's not the end of it. What comes next?

[00:53:27] And the way that they're setting that up with this season is so stinking good. And again, I think showing these kind groups and these kind people that you can trust and showing that alliances can matter and can be powerful, I think is so huge. But to your point. You're giving away an energy system.

[00:53:51] You're giving away the answer to an atomic bomb in theory because you're you're giving something that can power whatever. And in the wrong hands, as the trader said, in the wrong hands, it's going to have cataclysmic results. Yeah. But I mean, again, we kind of talked about this last week, too, when it came down to this, because that possibility came up last week is that if you look at it less like this is the nuclear bomb that we're giving the plans to and more like this is the cure for cancer.

[00:54:20] We're giving away in that, like, if OK, if you had the cure for cancer, why would you keep that for yourself? Unless you wanted it purely for power, which is what we know, you know, Bruegel and everybody else and, you know, the Croat. And that's why they held it. And Maggie and Renata, they don't want to be those people. Like, this could restore the world. I know, but it just it does.

[00:54:50] And I have this in my notes. It does worry me how freely Maggie is willing to separate with this information, this game changing information, because we've got 20 seasons of The Walking Dead to show us that in new communities, nine out of ten times, they are bad. They are a bad opportunity. The governor sucked. Alexandria was awesome. It's a little Targaryen. You flip a coin. But I don't know.

[00:55:17] I just I don't like these plans in the wrong hands. Well, but see, here's the thing, though. When you say how freely she gave those plans away, I don't think she freely gave them away. They there was they needed something. And when the trader says you're going to need to give me the sun to get those things, that's legitimately what Maggie handed her. OK, all right. You got me on the trader. I have no I have no problem with sharing.

[00:55:45] It's a matter of who the trader shared those plans with. A. Yes. That is my big concern of if there's a hint of a big bad, maybe that's what it is. But it's actually the willingness to share it with Gerald. That pisses me off. Great guy. Love him. Awesome dude. Thank God it all worked out. But she was willing to share that information with him. And he's not vetted. He didn't have a like. Like, oh, that one bugged me real bad that she was willing to share that with Gerald. That's fair.

[00:56:15] That's fair. Now, that's not the case at all.

[00:56:44] The tanks are not the MacGuffin. And now it's literally just a tool to to rebuild their civilization, which I love. I love that I was proven wrong that the tanks are not the MacGuffin of the series. What if by the end of this series, whether it's one season from now, three seasons from now, however long it lasts, we find out that this these tanks are legitimately the key to restoring humanity.

[00:57:09] And a final scene that we see when this show ends is a zoom out showing the country and just random spots of it lighting up. Meaning humanity is being restored. You know, I love about you, Ben. That I that I have those hopeful moments. I you have ended the show in so many magical ways that I would I would vote for an Emmy easily. That sounds delightful.

[00:57:38] And then you pull back a little bit more. And it's actually a marble inside. Shut up. I'm kidding. Shut up. I Michael Scott. Yeah, I couldn't help it. It had to be done. Or it's a marble being pulled out of a marble bag by a two fingered alien that's playing with marbles. A hundred percent. The perfect lunch combo. That first bite of your favorite sub followed by ice cold Pepsi. Add a couple of friends and now that's next level. Suddenly the laughs get louder.

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[00:59:05] Return to Pandora on Disney+. It will be an adventure for the whole fam. And watch the Oscar-winning phenomenon at home. This is sick. Avatar Fire and Ash, now streaming on Disney+. Rated PG-13. Men in Black. All right, so let's stick with the Maggie and Louise storyline for a little bit. Anything else you had for the Trader or Gerald's crew? Not really.

[00:59:30] I feel like they were kind of, again, they were kind of throwaway, not throwaway moments, but they were moments to kind of show us that, yes, we can be hopeful with everything that is happening. It showed us hope. It showed us people can survive without resorting to being the worst version of themselves. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. But I guess that kind of means we kind of have to shift to... Wait. Wait. Okay. Before we shift.

[00:59:59] Before we shift away from the peoples, I have to ask a question that I... All right. Oh, I wasn't shifting away from the peoples. I was simply shifting away from the Trader and Gerald and more towards Maggie and Louise. Okay, I'm just into Gerald real quick. Two seconds on Gerald and then we're out. Gotcha. And then, because I'm excited. I was going to go to that as well. Yeah. How Maggie got her groove back. So, first off, with the Gerald conversation, okay, it is such an amazing trope in television, the Bible verse quiz. Okay?

[01:00:29] Everyone's looking for their little shibboleth. Like, oh, can you re-quote... What's your favorite obscure Bible quote? Okay? Is it John 316? No, it's Stone Cold 316. But here's the thing. I went to Catholic school for 13 years. Truly can memorize line and verse of the Bible. 13, 15 years into the apocalypse. Never once seen Maggie pick up a Bible. This entire apocalyptic showdown.

[01:00:58] And you're trying to tell me she still remembers Bible and verse. Furthermore, has... Hold on. I'm going to answer your question. Yes, she can. Because look at her upbringing with Herschel and Beth. I know. I firmly believe she can. And as far as Gerald goes, I'm pretty sure that group is still reading the Bible. Now, they probably are because they have that book and Johnny Tremaine.

[01:01:27] But other than that... No. So, my other point, though, is how come everybody uses the same Bible? Because there's like nine different St. James Version and the Etc. Version. Like, so, rhyme and verse doesn't always line up depending. So, I just want to say it's one of my most irritating tropes because I just... I don't know. Again, in the apocalypse, I went to Catholic school for 13 years. I couldn't name you a single Bible verse.

[01:01:55] And maybe that says more about me than it does about anything else. But I just... It always makes me giggle when it happens because I just... It's... In a world of zombies, that's where they lose me on the believability. Well, I mean, here's the thing. Like, I will freely admit I am not a religious person. I have actually... I grew up as a Catholic. I went to Catholic camps. I went to church when I was younger. I have since converted. And apologies to anybody who does not like this. I am now fully an atheist. I don't believe in any kind of organized religion.

[01:02:24] And I have my reasons for that. I'm not going to get into it now. But as somebody who did come up in that upbringing and knows many people in that upbringing, Maggie comes across to me as somebody who also grew up with Herschel, with Beth, came up in that upbringing. And somebody who, although we probably don't see it... Actually, not probably. We don't. Even though we don't see it happening because it's not pertinent to the story, Maggie is somebody who prays nightly. So... Okay. That is something that stays probably... You could see that.

[01:02:53] Bible verses stay fresh in her head. All right. Well, I'm just saying, in an apocalyptic nightmare, if someone gave me a Bible verse quiz, I am absolutely screwed. So, Sister Marianne, you didn't help me much. But having said that, let's talk potential premarital sex. Luis and Maggie, let me tell you, as far as laying the groundwork... I called it last week. I love that you...

[01:03:22] And there were some of our viewers that also called it last week. But I thoroughly, thoroughly, thoroughly appreciated the road trip pre-work that they did with Luis and Maggie. I thought they absolutely earned the storyline with very little time spent for it. But it felt so... It's some of the best writing we've gotten on Walking Dead in a long-ass time. Yeah. I would agree with that as well. I'm...

[01:03:52] Like, I kind of... It's funny because, like, my first two notes are... Actually, it's the two of my first three notes. Maggie and Luis road trip, because that's how the episode starts. It's awesome. And Maggie and Luis moments shared. Because we're seeing this connection build between Maggie and Luis that I... Again, I mentioned last week, I kind of already sensed was there. And was kind of underlying... And now the two of them together are...

[01:04:23] You know, it's building to something more. And whether or not it actually gets to that point, because of how this story closes in this episode, with Maggie fantasizing about kissing Luis and then pulling back, realizing... There's a lot of guilt with Maggie still when it comes to fantasizing about another man, even though Glenn is not there.

[01:04:53] If that makes sense. So it perfectly makes sense. And I love that you said that, because one of the things I took away from it was... Is this somewhat a commentary towards the fandom that also can't get over Glenn with Maggie? Is this... Is this Maggie saying, I need to be allowed to move on, and that's okay, and that's healthy, and I love Glenn,

[01:05:19] and it doesn't mean that he's not an important part of my story, but I need to be able to find a future worth fighting for, a hope, something that I can build. Because what I have is good, but I just... I'm allowed to have this too, damn it. And when she said that every time she smiles or laughs, she feels guilty, I felt that. I felt that deep in my soul.

[01:05:41] Like, that her character has not allowed herself permission to feel happy moments, because it's survivor's remorse. It's survivor's remorse from Glenn not being there and her being there, and always dreaming of doing all of this stuff with him, and knowing that she gets to live a life that he couldn't get to live. So, and I just...

[01:06:07] I think that is such powerful storytelling in the way that they have framed that, in the way that they have shaped that. Yeah, I mean, look, I'll be completely honest. Glenn was one of my favorite characters from The Walking Dead proper, and I loved Maggie and Glenn together. I, as... Like, I have no issues with Maggie moving on at this point. It's been well... It's been... How old is her? It's been over...

[01:06:34] Yeah, it's been like 16 years, at least, that she has been alone as nothing but Herschel's mother. Lori couldn't even wait fucking three months before she moved on with, uh... Oh, my God. Shane. Shane, thank you. I couldn't... I got you, buddy. I was thinking Frank. Let me tell you something about Shane. It's not Frank Castle. Well, it is Frank Castle. Let me tell you something about Frank Castle. You know, Lori couldn't even wait months before moving on with Shane.

[01:07:04] It's been 16 years, at least, for Maggie. She deserves to move on. And there's a part of me that almost wonders if when she was hesitant to leave the city with Luis in the beginning, yes, she made a good excuse that Luis is our only doctor. He really shouldn't be leaving.

[01:07:23] And Renata comes back with, well, we have other people who are medically trained, but Luis is really the only person who will know if what we're getting is legit, which is a very, very, very valid point. It is a classic Walking Dead dilemma. The doctor dilemma, man. Like, we've only got the one doctor, but we need him to go verify. It's perfect. It's the perfect... Yeah. ...perfect way to set up the episode.

[01:07:45] But do you think there's an underlying situation there where Maggie also doesn't want to go with Luis alone because maybe she has been sensing there's something there and she doesn't want to put... She has never allowed herself to be in a situation to do that before. This is allowing herself to do that. I think that there is absolutely a chance that's there. I think if that's there, that's like her fourth reason for not wanting to do it, per se. It's not her main reason. No. No.

[01:08:13] But I could see that, and that reminds me of when Ben and Leslie are going to the Indiana Statehouse and she makes the world's worst road trip CD to try to be as unsexy as humanly possible. Dude, let me tell you, and I don't want to get distracted too much, but the scene with Chris Traeger in the backseat playing the banjo, air banjoing, that scene itself is hysterical.

[01:08:42] But have you ever seen the outtake of that scene? I have. I love... Yes, I have. That seeing Rob Lowe do that and having Amy Poehler and Adam Scott crack, him making them crack by doing that is even funnier than the actual scene. There are simple pleasures in life. But I digress. I'm sorry. Amen. No. So we're talking Luis and Maggie. We're talking...

[01:09:09] I really like the, oh, you grew up on a farm? I'm like, fair enough. Luis wouldn't understand. And I appreciate showing the difference between the Bronx life, the farm life, his world, her world, like the mullet, et cetera. I don't know. They did a really good job of showing connective tissue where they have differences, they have similarities, but they definitely have a runway to fall for each other. And it made so much sense.

[01:09:37] Well, and even on top of all of that, too, you kind of touched on it a little bit, but seeing the wonder in Luis in actually getting to leave the city for the first time in however long and seeing that there actually is still a world that exists outside of New York City. Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was so poignant and so powerful and something I've never considered in The Walking Dead averse before of.

[01:10:03] I have been on this island for 20 years now. I have not moved off of it. I have not done anything because how do I know when I move off it, it's not going to be 12,000 times worse than it is right now here? This is good enough. I'm going to stay here. Yeah, man. That makes perfect, absolute sense. Of course, someone's going to be like that. Have you seen The Sheep Detectives yet? Not yet. It's on my list to watch. Damn it. Sorry.

[01:10:31] The whole crossing the river slash crossing the road and actually breathing is a decently poignant moment in The Sheep Detectives. And to all of our people out there that have seen it, you're going to be like, ah, that guy, he knows. So I love that. But I mean, even him saying in conversation with Maggie that they bombed, they napalmed the hell out of New York City, and he just assumed they did it to the entire world. But then seeing that wonder in his eyes, like I mentioned, of realizing that's not the case.

[01:10:59] The world still exists outside of here, and I'm getting to experience it for the first time again. And like eating the mulberries and then going to see if there's raspberries. Like, it was such a great moment to watch for Luis's character. And seeing all of that. And again, it just adds to more of that. This show is giving us hope for the first time in a long time. Now, it's Walking Dead. They're going to tear that out from under us at some point. They kind of do by the end of this episode.

[01:11:29] But, and I'll get to that too. Because again, I have my symbolic thing. It is. It's really well written. What I am really appreciating about the show is it is telling a very rapid story with these. Again, we've only known Luis and Renata for four episodes. And I thoroughly adore both of them. Me too. And Dillard. Like, we have known these characters for four episodes.

[01:11:59] And I will be devastated if any of the three of them don't make it past this season. And that's a testament to the story they're telling. I am so invested. I'm so excited to watch these episodes two times and to talk about them. It's not a chore. It's truly a treat to talk about this show again. Which it has. It just. It felt so one note before now.

[01:12:25] And it feels so layered now in a way that I really, really appreciate. Yeah. I mean, because, you know, and I'm the same exact way. Like, I'm invested in Renata. I'm invested in Luis. And, you know, we've gotten other characters that we got introduced to in season one and season two. But we never got as invested in those characters as we did. As we already are with these guys.

[01:12:52] I already know more about these three than I ever knew about Bruegel. Ever knew about Bruegel. Yeah. Or even the Croat or the Dama. Like, both Renata and Luis are already more fleshed out than both of those two major players from the last two seasons. I mean, the Croat was just Simon with a crazy accent. Um, I mean, there. But I mean, like, even. I don't know if you can compare Renata and Luis to, like, Bruegel and the Croat.

[01:13:22] Like, but, like, I'm comparing them more to, like, Amaya and Tommaso from season one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the pits. Or in the tunnels. People who were allied with Maggie, just like Luis and Renata. Like, I'm already more invested in Luis and Renata than I ever was in Amaya and Tommaso. Correct. Correct. Like, when they got killed off, I wasn't heartbroken about that at all. I was like, well, that's such as life.

[01:13:47] But if we lose, if we lose Renata and or Luis, I said this last week, I have a feeling they are setting us up for a heartbreak. And I don't know who it's going to be between Dillard, Renata, and Luis. It's going to be one of those three because they're the only people we've been allowed to love so far. And I can't wait to see who it is. But it has to be one of those three.

[01:14:16] And we don't even know when it comes to Dillard. We don't even know yet if this is something we should be fearful of or something we should be sympathetic to. Sympathetic of. Exactly. Yes. Because they haven't given us more of that yet. Yes. Is he broken or is he crazy? Is he? Yeah. And again, I kind of hope it's just broken. And I hope it's broken, too, because this week. All right. Let's go into this. This week, Dillard was so competent in all of his scenes.

[01:14:46] Yeah. He was a little bit eccentric, but he and Renata had that kind of sexy flirty tension going on at the beginning of the episode where she was like, I kind of like the way your brain works. He's like, I haven't had a woman compliment me in 30 years. Yeah. And like the way that he was able to be mentory and adulty for Herschel. And just like he was very confident and adult and an asset to the community in this scene.

[01:15:16] Even in the scene at the end where they're trying to salvage as much food as they can before the pantry collapses. Yes. And Dillard says to her, like Herschel's like, we haven't gotten nearly any of it. And Dillard's like, it's better to be alive than to have this can of tuna. Yeah. And like, yes, that exact moment was where I was like, OK, so he's not crazy. He's just a little cockeyed. He's just a little off center. And that's A-O-A-OK.

[01:15:43] Like I said, I hate sounding like a heart, like I'm half of an abusive relationship. But like, I hope he's just broken and we can fix him. Yeah, man. Me too. And this show has seen that happen before. But I do feel like maybe there's been a threshold and he can't cross up or or or maybe his bullshit will get careless. I don't know. I can't wait to see it.

[01:16:11] I just know that whatever they're building, they're doing a great job of just dripping and and dribbling it out because he was he was completely normal. This episode as if none of last week happened. And I like that. I don't I like the fact that they don't feel the need to rush into exploring that right away. We've got time. We can wait on that. I yeah, I love that. Yeah.

[01:16:34] Before we continue on with the the stuff that happens in New York City with Renata and Negan and and and the foundation and all that stuff. I want to make one more quick note about Maggie and Luis. Please. In one of their conversations, Maggie starts talking about the man with the mullet. And the moment I heard that, I was like, oh, she's talking about Eugene. Of course she was. And then she actually mentions him by name.

[01:17:00] There have been quite a few callbacks this season already, not just in the flashbacks, but just in some of the mentions. We got Maggie mentioning Eugene this episode. Negan mentioned Rick last episode without mentioning by name. Like we're getting a lot of callbacks this season. I'm thoroughly liking that. I really am. And I think I think that's their way of paying.

[01:17:25] Oh, again, this show seems to understand what it needs to do and what job is and how to get us back on track with this franchise. And I feel like they're just they're doing it. But I also feel like at the same time. And again, this is more of that hopeful nature I have for the series itself and not just the story. I kind of have a feeling that like we have a setup now that if they ever did do some kind of reunion, the seeds have been planted. Yes.

[01:17:55] And it could happen in within dead city. That setting makes the most sense or some sort of multi-community attack by some global force, some global Commonwealth type option.

[01:18:11] I feel like if they did use dead city as the setup and the grounds for a walking dead reunion, like bringing Rick and Michelle and Anna bringing Aaron and or Ziki or any other survivors, like bringing people back together from the walking dead proper and using it for a reunion. We would love it as people who cover this show. But people who don't watch this show out of pure hate would hate it even more because it would force them to have to watch dead city.

[01:18:40] Oh, God, that would be I almost don't. I do. And I'm enough of a I'm enough of a prick. OK, actually, you're right, because before we move on to the Negan and Renata stuff, which is is enough meat on the bone to attack. But speaking of Maggie and Luis, let's talk about the elephant in the room and potential MacGuffin. Little Miss Marisol Schrodinger's Marisol. And is she alive?

[01:19:09] Isn't she? Is that because the story that Luis told us about his wife is when shit went down, she left the island. Never returned. And in this world, that's a very plausible outcome from someone that leaves an island that in this world could have easily died any thousands of different ways. Luis even says it himself. I know she's gone, but I also don't know if she is like it's Schrodinger's wife.

[01:19:38] You until you open that box, you don't know if that cat is dead or alive. And yeah, I kind of love that because if they need to add that tension and that dynamic to the story, it's there. But at the same time, as I'm thinking about that, I realize what the Gerald story has taught me is they're not interested in telling me the cliche classic story in the cliche classic story. Marisol becomes a plot point.

[01:20:06] Oh, I don't think this story is telling us that. No, you're right. In the in the cliched soap opera like story, Maggie and Luis develop a relationship. And out of nowhere, Marisol shows up to throw a wrench in the gears. And I didn't get far enough in the series. But for the people that say that Dead City feels like Fear the Walking Dead, wouldn't that be how Fear the Walking Dead goes? Is if that were a plot point that would have happened?

[01:20:35] And so my prayer, oh, man, I really hope on August 14th I am not jinxing this. But my prayer is that we never actually see Marisol and that she's never a part of the story again. I honestly don't think we will.

[01:20:54] I don't think we will either, because every time I expect them to go the traditional commonplace route again with Gerald's group, the entire time I watched this episode, I was waiting for the shoe to drop that they were cannibals or some shit like that. And it never happened. And every time they have subverted those expectations. And I'm here for that.

[01:21:18] I think I don't think they were using Marisol as a point of plot where Marisol will show up and, like I said, throw that wrench in the gears. I think it was more. It was something that it was it was how Luis explained. That he was even though Marisol was gone, he still moved on.

[01:21:43] And I think it was just Maggie needed to hear that from somebody else in order for her mentally to say, you know what? I kind of have to do the same. And that led to the quick fantasy of an intimate moment with Luis. OK, I love that. So I don't think it was anything. I don't think it was planting any seeds other than in Maggie's head of that evolution and that acceptance to be able to move on.

[01:22:11] It was telling a character driven story. And I love that. Yes, exactly. All right. So let's get back to New York, Manhattan proper or wherever the hell we are. Can I just say, please. Not even Negan and Renata. Dude, Negan at Herschel holding his own against Negan's banter. Oh, my God. My favorite parts of this episode. So. All right.

[01:22:35] So when I was in college, like I worked at a kinder care, which is a daycare center in the school age room. And it was one of my favorite things in the world. And like, I know dudes like Negan. I am kind of in that way. A like. Yes. That kind of relationship that he had with Herschel right now. That's a super fun relationship. Yeah. And those two probably have endless amounts of enjoyment bantering, bickering and going back and forth.

[01:23:03] But like in a really helpful, like, I don't know. Negan is not a dad. I don't think anyone thinks he is. He's Uncle Negan at this point. Like, he's just like that. But like, man, Uncle Negan is going to get you out of some shit. But like, he's also going to piss people off at Thanksgiving and you just kind of roll with it. But I mean, like, you're right. Like, this is probably something that Logan Kim and JDM had a blast doing. Like being able to run back and forth like this.

[01:23:27] But what complicates it and like, not in a bad way, but like just in a weird way is like, you watch this banter between the two of them and you're like, oh, like they're getting along. They're ribbing each other and everything. Wait a minute. He literally killed his dad. Like, this is a weird dynamic of a relationship. I cannot. Oh, man. You had to. You had to scratch this one. I know. You had to scratch this itch on me. But again, I had to pick it.

[01:23:53] The moment the moment in which Negan killed Glenn. Glenn was just a dude that worked for an asshole in his mind. Like he didn't know it was Glenn. He didn't know that was Herschel's dad. So, yes, while it is poetic or ironic or appropriate, what have you, that Negan and Herschel are now getting this little like fun little relationship. I don't know. And I think this is OK. This is in my notes. This is great.

[01:24:21] I think this is what really excites me about the sideways episode, because I actually think in a different world, in a different scenario, in a different setting, you know how we always say that, like, oh, man, if Shane was still around, he would have been Negan's right hand man and lieutenant. I wonder if Negan would have come across Rick's crew earlier. Would he have been like just the greatest, bestest asset ever? And maybe that's what they're going to be telling us in the story they're going to show us. I don't know.

[01:24:49] But I'm really liking this dynamic with Herschel and with Negan because it's just showing us what could have been and what's possible. Well, not only that, but Herschel has even said himself to Maggie that, like, I never met Glenn. I never met him to know him to have to, like, mourn the loss like you do. It's true.

[01:25:12] So he's able to develop this witty banter kind of relationship with Negan because Maggie sees Negan as the man who killed Glenn. And Herschel doesn't look at Negan that way because he never knew Glenn. Well, and Herschel's also growing up in a world of death in a way that none of us ever have. Yeah.

[01:25:31] So the idea that grudges still exist to that level in this post-apocalyptic world, no one survives if you hold grudges like that. If people are survivors and they build communities together, no one can hold that kind of a grudge. So I really like just kind of, yeah, I like Negan and Herschel's dynamic that they showed us in this episode. It was really fun.

[01:25:57] And even with the Herschel-Maggie dynamic, too, like, he's seeing himself that Maggie is able to put this aside. So why shouldn't he? Correct. Especially considering he never held it against Negan nearly as much as she did. If anything, he's the kind of teenager that would have sided with Negan just out of spite of Maggie. Yeah. All right. To the fans that are going to rip me in the comments next week, I heard what I said the minute after it came out of my mouth. So relax.

[01:26:27] All right. My bad. My bad. Now, I also have a prediction that when we do get that flash sideways with Beth and the return, it's clearly going to be in a world where this zombie apocalypse never happened. You think? Oh, yeah. I think it's probably going to be in the world where- The what if world. Okay. Yeah. It's going to be a what if world where it's- My prediction is it's probably going to be Maggie and Beth on a trip to New York. Where they order a pizza. As sisters. As Glenn delivers it.

[01:26:57] Or, like, here's the thing. If the apocalypse never happens, like, maybe that's not the case. Maybe this will just be an apocalypse if Beth was still around. But, like, I just have this feeling that if it's a what if, it's going to be a total what if, where it's not even zombie. Like, it's not Walker. It's- I'm excited to find out. That would be awesome storytelling. Yeah. If they just told us a frickin' Caroline in the city story. Maybe Felicity.

[01:27:27] But, I mean, that's the case. Like, if that's the case, it's also going to mean that Maggie and Glenn have never met. So, Herschel doesn't even exist. Maybe. Or, again, maybe Maggie got hungry one night and ordered a pizza and this very- Glenn didn't live in New York. He lived in Atlanta. All right. You got me on that one. Okay. Yeah. All right. So, they would have never met. Again, maybe girls trip. Maybe Beth met this really handsome guy named Negan at a bar playing pool.

[01:27:57] And- Now, if they do something like that, I wouldn't be surprised if they did. Oh, that'd be fun. If they kind of played with the fans a little bit and, like, maybe Maggie and Beth are in a bar and Negan approaches them and tries to hit on them and they turn them away. Or they're at the bar the night that Negan defends his wife's honor and beats the shit out of that guy. That could also be- That could be fun. That could be something, too. So, I don't know. We'll see how it plays out. I don't know. I'm excited.

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[01:29:52] Rated PG-13. All right, speaking of the old Negan, let's talk about his story, because he bookends the episode in a lot of ways. It starts off with them gathering walkers. What did you think? Okay. Can I ask a question about the methane production? Sure. Is it just me, or does it seem like, like, why aren't they killing the walkers once they get them into the pen and then throwing them into the methane? Do they need them to be freshly walkerized? Oh, that sucks.

[01:30:22] So the methane that they produce comes from their corpses rotting. Okay. Their corpses aren't rotting completely as fast as they would if they were completely dead. So they need them to... This is why I said last week, this is going to come down from killing walkers to hurting walkers. And that's exactly what we see them do in this episode. They need to keep them alive because they are not going to produce the methane until they actually kill them. And there's only a window

[01:30:51] of how long that methane produces from a freshly killed body, I'm guessing. Yes. All right. Exactly. So that's why they have to herd them, bucket them, and just wait until it's time to throw them in. They're killing them right before they place them in a tank. All right. That makes sense. Yes. That makes sense. Can we give a shout out? I don't know who it was that designed the bloater costume. I have him listed as a bloater in my notes, too. Holy shit.

[01:31:20] They've given us clickers, I think. They've given us climbers and whatnot. But the first Walking Dead bloater I can remember in the longest time, and this was a truly disgusting, grotesque Zed. And I loved it. It was amazing. Well, and it's funny that they gave us a bloater purely because they needed something for that guy to slip on. Yes. That's it. And Puss made the most sense. Yep. And I loved it.

[01:31:49] I loved it to pieces. Yeah. That was really the only reason they gave us a bloater was because they needed something. They needed a tool to give this guy a reason to slip. Absolutely. Now, so with the bloater, it led to Negan jumping into the cage and taking him out so that he could save the guy that maybe we've met before, maybe not. I don't think we have. I think this is the first time we've seen him. All right, cool. And somehow that inspires Renata

[01:32:17] to realize that Negan killed the Dama. What am I missing? Oh, no, no. I think she already knew. So, okay. So then why did she give that pointed look after the Negan incident? That was when she... So in this... So we get the scene with Renata giving Negan the last available apartment. Absolutely, yeah. Like she gives him a place within them so that he doesn't have to live at the bar. And she tells him flat out,

[01:32:45] like, I don't see your points or everything, like, but you are an asset. Yep. You are a tool. People are a resource. Yeah, like, you are an asset to us. And I may not agree with everything you do, but I can't deny that you are helpful. You are an asset. At the point before Negan jumps in to save him and kill the bloater, Renata already knew. She knew that Negan was the culprit.

[01:33:13] She knew that Negan killed the Dama because, again, she says... Yeah. Yeah, she knew then that Negan was the one that killed the Dama. Of course. But when she saw that he was willing to leap over to that fence and rescue that guy and take out the bloater, like, even tell Renata, you distract them from over there and I'll take care of this. And he just said... He was willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good. And that is what caused her to realize, you know what? You may have killed the Dama.

[01:33:44] Okay. And this is, I think, what I'm loving about how they're telling the story this year because Renata has been so unbelievably pragmatic every time. Like, last week in the hospital episode, Negan's like, well, what we should do is get rid of one of the groups so there's only one that we have to feed in. She's like, actually, the most logical choice is kill everybody. He's like, well, goddamn. And I think it just shows, like, Renata's so good at this, man. She is a very... And that's why the Renata

[01:34:14] versus Maggie leadership thing is like, eh, they're both great. Why can't they both lead? Oh, yeah. Because she's phenomenal. And she really is weighing the numbers. She knows that he killed the Dama. And while she agreed with Maggie's option of letting the Dama choose it, she's not exactly unhappy that the Dama's not around. She's not upset that she doesn't have to deal with the Dama anymore, as you could tell by this episode, I would think.

[01:34:41] So, like, it really shows a side of her that I really appreciate. She's not... She's morally grayer than I initially thought she was going to be. Just by offering him to join because she saw his value. Well, I mean, and I made the point earlier about how Maggie's the yin-yang between the group. And I honestly think that, like, they're all yin-yangs, to be completely honest. Yes. Because, I mean, that's the whole point of the yin-yang

[01:35:10] is that there's a little bit of good in every bad, but there's a little bit of bad in every good. Fact. Like, that is what the yin-yang stands for. And we're seeing that now out of Renata, is that she does have shades of gray. Just like Negan has shades of gray. He was willing to jump in to save this guy who probably just came to New York within the last couple weeks and is still relatively new to everything. Actually, I think he mentions that he came from the bricks. So... Yes. Yes.

[01:35:41] Yes. So he's been there for a little bit of time and Negan knows this guy. He's not willing to just sit there and watch this guy die. He knows that this guy is probably important to what they're doing right now. Correct. And that's the same realization that Renata comes to with Negan, seeing Negan jump the fence and get this guy out of there. I love that. Let me ask you a question. In a different universe, okay, would Renata replace Letty

[01:36:10] for Dom Toretto? What? I was just thinking that I feel like Renata would be great in Dom Toretto's crew in the Fast and Furious franchise. Okay. Maybe. Okay. Renata. Oh, man. You really got me thinking of this one because you... And I hate it because you know how much I love those fucking movies. I do, but she's such a good Michelle Rodriguez comp. Oh, so do you mean if it wasn't Michelle Rodriguez

[01:36:40] playing Letty, would Amy Garcia be good? If they let Letty die and brought in a new love for Dom Toretto, wouldn't Renata have been just fantastic? That character, that type of character? Yeah, I could see Renata being a good character for Dom. Absolutely. And now we lost the other half of our audience. Fantastic. Yeah, I could see that. You threw me for a loop with that one. I sure did. I come out left field sometimes, Ben. It's what I do. Yeah. It's what I do. All right.

[01:37:09] So we're still talking. So in the ultimate question, which at the end of the episode, again, they bookend the episode very nicely with Renata's offer at the beginning and then Negan's answer at the end, which was like, so funny story, Renata, at first you had me, but then I realized you're full of shit and your offer of an apartment is really just an opportunity to surveil me. Where do you land on that? Do you believe that Negan's right? Do you believe that Renata's, like, what do you think is the truth here

[01:37:39] of what happened? Honestly, I'm going to go to a stereotype of there's his truth, there's her truth, and then there's the actual truth. Okay. And I think that's a little of column A and a little of column B. Couldn't agree more. I think Renata really legitimately does believe that Negan is an asset to everything they're doing, but having him there

[01:38:08] gives her an opportunity to make sure he's in check. Could not, I could not agree more. I think A and B is the answer, and for her, it's a win-win situation, like, hey, why don't you come live here, and then we have you as part of our community, you're one of our greatest assets, and you're protected, but also I can keep an eye on you. Yeah, I mean, because, like, look, he's clearly an asset to the group already, and he's been that asset not living there,

[01:38:37] so what would change if he still wasn't living there? The invite to live there is rewarding him for being the asset that he is, but it's also so that she can keep an eye on him. 100%, and I really, I can't wait to see what happens with the next half of the season, because, you know, at the end of the episode, we get to this sinkhole, and we get to a great divide where our lead characters are separated on one side,

[01:39:06] and the others are on the other, and it is a little, you know, men in tights in its size difference, but still, it's enough space between them that we have, we're gonna have an entire character study episode next week of Negan and Maggie, I don't know, come to truths or some shit while they try to figure things out. I can't wait. So here, so here's where I get to my symbolic. Ooh! Analyzation that I came to

[01:39:36] in that the fracture of the ground, we saw the cracks forming early in the episode. Yes, the cracks in the foundation, sure. The cracks in the foundation, they're not just physical, they're literal, they're figurative, couldn't agree more. they're symbolic that there are cracks in this foundation that are starting to come to a head. And now, go ahead. No, you go. And now, we have

[01:40:06] legitimate reason for the fracture to be as big as it is in that they've lost a majority, if not almost all of their resources. I don't think so. I think the pantry... You think they can salvage? Absolutely. The building just kind of like caved in at a focal point. So, in theory, and what I learned this week is in the apocalypse, I never considered this before, spread out your resources. Have multiple pantries

[01:40:35] for moments exactly like this in case there is a fault line incident. Not all of your food resources are in one centralized location. Spread it out a little bit. Yeah. Hindsight is 20-20. And it makes it harder for marauders and raiders to take your entire supply in one shot. But I digress. I think it's salvageable, and I understand the story that needs to be explored between Negan and Maggie. Is there a story

[01:41:05] on the other side of the break worth exploring? Well, see, here's where... Talk to me. ...the other part of that symbolism comes in. Okay. We saw... It wasn't just the cracks in the foundation that we saw coming to light and making and forcing this fracture. I think we legitimately saw where the lines are drawn. We've seen who is going to be on whose side between this fracture. Maggie and Negan are going to stand on their own for a while.

[01:41:36] Why? In what way? So, remember how I said that Maggie... Maggie sees Negan as... So, Renata sees him as an asset in that he's a workhorse, he helps herd the zombies and everything, but she doesn't want him to kill. There's no killing ever again. You're done with that. I don't think Maggie sees that. I think Maggie knows

[01:42:04] we're going to need a judge and a jury. And that's going to... Maggie sees Negan as that. I think she's... I think there's going to be a fracture and I don't think it's going to be between Maggie and Negan. I think there's going to be a fracture in Maggie and Renata because they're going to see different ways in how Negan can be useful and as an asset. That's interesting. Renata

[01:42:34] sees him as manual labor and protection. Maggie sees him as protection and a literal weapon. And now, yeah, no, 100%. I couldn't agree. I could not agree more with all of that, but just thinking one episode ahead, and again, folks, we are not looking at any episode preview, so I don't know what they're addressing, but we know what we have with Maggie and Negan's side. What do we have with Renata,

[01:43:04] Herschel, Luis, and Dillard all on one side? Like, do we have them finding out Dillard's secret? Do we have Herschel and Luis having the, oh, you're not my dad. Oh, I love you, son. You know, weird, awkward stepdad moment. What's it going to be? This is where I believe that the resources were lost, because one, if the resources are going to be salvageable, they wouldn't have gone in there collecting them. They would have just cleared the building so

[01:43:34] they didn't get out of there and protect themselves. They went in to save resources because otherwise those resources are going to be lost. The resources are what's going to cost this fracture. You're going to have Renata, Luis, Herschel, and Dillard on the side of we need to start gathering again because without these resources, we're not going to survive, but you've got Maggie and Negan who see the bigger picture in that without these resources, things are going to go to shit. And we're going to have to,

[01:44:04] somebody's going to get blood on their hands. because we're going to have to control the riots. That's interesting. I could also see you actually kind of inspired me. I could see Renata's team storyline being let's carefully go into this very unstable building to try to gather more resources now that the initial fissures are done. and it's a race against time before the rest of the building

[01:44:34] collapses and like a teamwork mission like that. I don't even see that. I see them going into the next episode and just telling us, hey, we lost everything. I could see that too. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. I love that we're four episodes in and there's no big bad hinted. Big bad is circumstance. I disagree. I think big bad is, we talked about this last week. Is it the traitor? No, it's survival. Well, yes, yes. I love that there's no person

[01:45:04] as a big bad. Okay, gotcha. I really appreciate that decision and it's some of the best storytelling that Walking Dead has seen in a long time because of that. Yeah, I mean, I love, like you said, I love the fact that they're giving us a really great story with a lot of character development. They're making us really care for these characters, the ones that they've introduced us to, and they're giving us new reasons to care for the characters we already knew, and they're doing it all without

[01:45:33] giving us a protagonist. It's literally just putting them together and trying to survive is what is making us actually enjoy these characters. 100% yes, and I love that, and I'm sad that we're already halfway through. I was legit just going to say. I want at least two more additional episodes on top. Yeah, I wish this was a 10 episode season. Me too. I'm legitimately sad that it's going to be over at eight because

[01:46:03] they have finally understood the formula that makes this sub-series so successful. Yeah, 100%. I will, I was going to say, they can't have that. I like that. That was good. I will try that again. I was going to save this for news, but we can kind of bring it up in notes now unless you have any other plot points that you want to talk about for this episode. I am looking at everything I have

[01:46:34] and Oh, nope, I got nothing. We didn't mention Maggie's ring. She lost Glenn's ring. You know what? We didn't mention Maggie's ring, which interesting. First off, is it gone or is that part of next week's plot? Oh, that's gone. Dude, that was right where the fissure cracked. That ring is gone. Oh, man, that's such a good MacGuffin though. There's so many good MacGuffins in this show. If they wanted to have it be something that gets found by

[01:47:03] XYZ, it's there. But I also think it's going to lead more towards why I believe there's going to be cracks in this in that Maggie is going to fall down a little bit of a hole. Guilt? Yeah, she's going to fall down this guilt hole between the moment almost having the moment with Louise losing that ring and everything. I think she's going to go dark for a little bit and I don't think she's going to go super dark. I think she's going to

[01:47:33] stumble a little bit. it's obviously extremely poignant about the ring and they highlighted several times this episode and it being lost. They're going to address it again and I can't see. I cannot wait to see how because every time I think they're going to zig so far they've zagged and I really appreciate that. I really do. Yeah, I think we're going to see Maggie, you know, unlike seasons one and two where Maggie was on the side of good and Negan

[01:48:03] was on the side of bad. I think there's a possibility after this episode out of guilt that we're going to see Maggie go a little dark science, bitch. Nice. for maybe a couple episodes and kind of side with Negan a little bit more and everything else. I'm here for it. You know that. And that's just going to fuel Negan even more. Can't wait because he's going to have that ally. But before

[01:48:33] we wrap things up, just one note and you posted this on Facebook and I'm glad that you did. We did get a little bit of an insight as we did as to why we got this tonal change for season three. Yes. And if you don't mind, since you are the one that posted it, maybe you can shine a little light on it. Sure. So I'm a big entertainment weekly head and they are one of the few publications that actually does write about Dead City after each episode and they published a interview in which

[01:49:02] they told us that at the end of last season, like in the last two episodes, JDM kind of called up AMC and he was like, hey guys, like I'm out. This sucks. I'm not, this isn't what I wanted to do. This is really lame storytelling and unless there's crazy changes, I'm out. And they acquiesced. So I think the first two episodes were them cleaning up the mess and what we're seeing from

[01:49:32] here is whatever the heck JDM asked for result. I'm not saying he has the fingerprints on how the season's shaping up. I'm not saying he's the writer, but he clearly said to them, the thing you've created isn't working creatively, narratively, interestingly. So like I'm out, this isn't interesting anymore. And they said, you know what, man, we hear you and we're going to fix it. And I love that. I love, I love that he was able to make

[01:50:02] this happen. Yeah. Well, and I think he probably does have some input, maybe not in story writing, but maybe in some because he, him and Lauren Cohan are both executive producers. Absolutely. Yes. And if he's willing to walk away as an executive producer, you got to listen to that guy. And I'm glad he did. Yeah, me too. Because like we've been toting since the beginning, man, this is some of the best writing this show. This is, this is the best writing this show has seen. I almost, I almost want

[01:50:31] to go back and watch Daryl Dixon because I only watched season one. I want to watch the rest of Daryl Dixon just so I can say from authority that this is the best spinoff yet. Oh my God, dude. I like, yeah, I might do the same thing. I've never watched Daryl Dixon at all and I might do it. I'm one season in but a lot of French and I like to play Animal Crossing when I watch TV. You don't like to have to look up at the screen and read. Subtitles are a killer for me, man. It's great as an option but I don't want it to be required reading. Yeah,

[01:51:01] I agree with you. One other quick thing that is kind of pointing it to Walking Dead right now is we got an announcement that Daryl Dixon's next season is going to be its last and it is coming in 2027. So I figured since we were talking about Daryl Dixon, we might as well bring that up now and season four is going to be the final season for Daryl Dixon. Well, you know, my aunt Diane Kruger said that she needs Daryl back home. So I'll be there. Did you really just

[01:51:30] say that you were related to Diane Kruger? I did. I did. I'm not. It's spelled differently, just like Uncle Freddy. But, you know, had to be done. Had to be done. Okay. Any final notes before we start to wrap things up and get out of here? No, I think we thoroughly executed this one and I just I cannot wait for the second half of the season. They have earned my titillation through and through. So cannot wait.

[01:52:00] Folks, the moment you're listening to this, okay, give us your feedback because we're recording early next week. So give us your feedback. I was going to bring that up. Oh, man. I hate jumping agenda items, damn it. No, you're fine. I was going to bring that up. All right. So give us your feedback like now. Do it. Go do it. Right now. All right. That is our show. Episode 713.

[01:52:30] Thank you, everybody, as always, for listening. Next episode, your feedback for this episode, Dead City Season 3, Episode 4, and then our breakdown of the Dead City Season 3, Episode 5, Imperialists. Yeah. So like you said just a few moments ago, we are, it is going to be a quick turnaround for episode, for the next episode. I am going away next weekend. I'm going to be working in Colorado Springs at a show. So we are recording like

[01:52:59] Tuesday before the episode even airs. So, so Tuesday afternoon is legitimately the deadline for feedback for episode 4 of Walking Dead, Dead City. So I'm going to I'm going to make a call and say 6 o'clock p.m. on Tuesday, August 18th is the deadline for feedback for for this episode episode 4.

[01:53:28] So do your best to get that in as quickly as possible. If you come in after that deadline, we will save the feedback. Of course, yes. And we'll we'll read it on the next episode. We'll read it or play it on the next episode. So we'll probably have a little bit more of an extended feedback when we get into talking about episode in episode 714. Yes. So, but if you want to make it quick, if you if you can get it in quick enough, you can get it in quick. I believe in you guys. I do.

[01:53:58] Yeah. If you want to write in or leave us that feedback in either a voicemail or email, you can find all of our contact information at podcastica.com. And while you're there, check out our other podcasts. And I have to mention Jason and Kirk have a new podcast coming up. Jason, Jim and Kirk, Jason, Jim and Kirk. Sorry, Jim and Kirk. It's just it's a whole bunch of Star Trek fans. Um, so no, uh, a new podcast coming up

[01:54:27] covering the HBO series Lanterns. So excited for this to come out, guys. I cannot flipping wait. Um, I love Hal Jordan. I love Jon Stewart, both in the Daily Show and in the Green Lantern universe. So really, really can't wait to see how it gets played out. Anyways, their show it's called Casting Light, a Lanterns podcast, and it's available on all the big platforms. They're also cross-posting all episodes to Wax Episodic as well, where Jason covers

[01:54:56] a bunch of cool other shows. And at the time you're hearing this, Lanterns just premiered August 16th. So if you're interested in checking it out, they just published an intro episode a few days back, and you can expect their next episode covering the premiere episode to drop soon. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. I'm a big fan of the Green Lantern, and I'm excited that we're getting another Lantern property in some way, shape, or form. I'm excited that it's tied into the Gunn universe,

[01:55:25] because I'm a big fan of what James Gunn has done so far, especially with Superman and Supergirl. And yeah, I'm excited for the podcast, too, because it's an opportunity for me to jump in from the beginning of the show being covered by Podcasting K. I also, I know that they're going to be able to cover a lot more of the Green Lantern lore than I know. I know more than your casual, but definitely not a ton of it. And there's going to be references, and there's going to be things and moments that I'm

[01:55:54] like, all right, like, of course I know Sinestro, but what else is there that I'm like, okay, that's new for me. So it'll be nice to just have those folks to kind of educate myself and learn more from. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Also, I want to do that. We, we, Kristen and I used to do this on Revisited, and I'm kind of, I want to open this up to you to see if you want to do this too. I want to throw out recommendations for other stuff we think people should be checking out as far as shows and movies.

[01:56:23] Absolutely, yes. And I know we've talked about Widow's Bay to death and stuff like that, and that's, that's one of them, but I want to throw something out there for any Big Bang Theory fans out there. Okay, yeah, man. Stuart Fails to Save the Universe is actually really, really fun. I'll one-up you and say if you're a Sliders fan, you're going to love this show. Yes. Yes, and every episode of Stuart Fails to Save the Universe so far has given us a

[01:56:52] great cameo from the Big Bang Theory universe. Absolutely, yes. There have been some amazing legacy cameos. Yeah, highly recommend. Great call, Ben. Great call. I like that. It's just a ton of, it's just a ton of fun. It's only 20 to 22 minutes. It's a short watch. If you, if you watch Big Bang Theory, check out Stuart Fails to Save the Universe. It's just a ton of fun. Anything from you that you, you kind of want to throw out there? Um, oh gosh. Okay, so to, to my

[01:57:21] Avatar fans out there, uh, the new Avatar Aang movie came out and, uh, Steven Young is the, the voice of Zuko, Fire Lord Zuko. And I gotta say, as far as, uh, um, well-crafted stories as far as really good midpoint continuations of stories and IP that we already know, it does a great job. So, highly recommend it. Even if you saw it on the pirated copy, will I think yes, less of you for doing that? Yes, I will.

[01:57:50] Unless you go on, on Paramount, a company I don't agree with, but you give them the eyeballs so that we can continue to get Avatar content because it's a commercialized world and you have to give eyeballs on the platform that matters so that we can get more of the thing that we like. Yes, agreed. Please do that. But I figured, like, we throw out enough other stuff throughout our conversations like Jericho and Widow's Bay and Lost and Ted Lasso and everything. Ted Lasso, again, also freaking phenomenal in two episodes. If you were worried that they were going to

[01:58:19] bastardize the property by coming back to it, no. They know how to honor the property and they know how to build upon a story in a new way. Give it a chance. You will enjoy. That show is so dear to me that it is my, it is legitimately my favorite show of all time because of how much that show means to me. And I was somebody who was reluctant about a fourth season. So for me to say that they are knocking it out of the park already in just two episodes back, like the heart, the humor, everything is there.

[01:58:49] Like for me to say that, take that seriously. The show is fantastic. It's been a great year for shows hitting their stride back again. Like Game of Thrones, the House of the Dragon. Holy shit. Season three was some of the, and a Night of the Seven Kingdoms. Like both of those properties from the Game of Thrones universe this year have been absolutely phenomenal television. So it's just a great year. Great year so far. We throw out so many references that I figured it might be fun to just throw something at the end of the episode and just

[01:59:19] do a recommendation. I'm here for it. So we'll have to, we'll have to keep doing it. And as we progress for like the next couple episodes of Dead City. Damn right. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening, everybody. Don't get bit, Sean Whitmore McConnell. What if doctors could detect Alzheimer's before symptoms appear or treat cancer with unprecedented precision? On the new season of Tomorrow's Cure, the chart topping and

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