719: TWD S7E2 "The Well" Rewatch

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_05] Hmm? Ah! Oh. Podcastica!

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_01] You have been addressed by the king, yet you remain silent. Do I detect skepticism? Perhaps you think me mad. Perhaps you see this place as nothing more than a mirage. So, tell me, what do you think of the kingdom, Carol? What do you think of the king?

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_04] I think you're amazing. It's amazing. And you're Sheba?

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_01] It's Sheba.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_04] Sheba. Amazing.

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_03] I would be speechless if I wasn't already speaking. I don't know what the hell's going on in the most wonderful way.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_08] Hey Zed Heads, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_07] And I'm Lucy.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_06] And I'm Robin.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_08] And this is The Walking Dead 'Cast, Episode 719.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_07] And this episode we're covering The Walking Dead, Season 7, Episode 2, The Well.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_08] As if we were never gone. We're back. Welcome back, Lucy.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_07] Welcome back, Jason.

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_08] Welcome back, Robin.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_06] Yay! And I get Lucy this time too. You do. Thanks, Jason. You were also fun to podcast with, but Lucy's Scottish. It's true.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_08] Are you refreshed and ready for Seasons 7 and 8?

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_07] I spent my summer... I don't know if you've heard of it, but it's this place that's the new Martha's Vineyard. It's amazing. It's called Widow's Bay. It's how I spent my summer. I went and hung out elsewhere, dabbled in some other TV shows, you know, lived life, survived some heat waves, and now we're back.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_08] That sounds like a good use of time.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_07] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_08] And it's apropos, actually, because before we get into this week's episode, I have a few announcements, one of which is that the show you were just talking about got 14 Emmys It sure did. recently, which is a lot. Widow's Bay. If you haven't heard of that show, you should go watch it immediately.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_07] Literally, stop this podcast immediately. Go and watch all of Widow's Bay, then come back and finish this episode.

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_08] Come back and hear us not talk about it at all. It's so good. It's on Apple TV. It's about a cursed New England island and this mayor's quest to make it a tourist destination. It's brilliant. And the best thing about it, in my opinion, I mean, it's just great writing, great everything, but it's one of the rare shows that actually is funny as hell and can be scary, too.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_07] Unbelievable. Right? Just absolutely astonishingly unbelievable. It's so impressive.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_08] Good. I'll see you in October on my other podcast, Wax Episodic, and then we'll be cross-posting it to a podcast solely dedicated to the Widow's Bay called Everything's Fine, a Widow's Bay podcast. Brilliant. So that's coming soon. We're going to do our first episode in a couple of weeks and we'll go week by week through season one. And then when season two rolls around, we'll pick up with it.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_07] Excellent.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_08] Another thing is that Resident Evil comes out today. I've been probably talking about that nonstop, but it's the new Zack Greger version of Resident Evil starring Austin Abrams, AKA Ron of The Walking Dead. Ron! And it has a 98% right now on Rotten Tomatoes. Oh, that's right. So I'm feeling pretty hopeful that they finally made a good Resident Evil movie. Rima and I are going to be covering that for this podcast.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_08] We'll be recording next Thursday, September 24th. So if you get a chance to see it, we'd love to hear your thoughts for that. I hear it's gory though. So if you don't like hardcore horror, you might not want to go. Next, as you guys know, we're back after a break for The Walking Dead Dead City season three. And I really just want to thank Ben and Alex so much for doing such a great job as always taking over this podcast to cover that show.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_08] They just have a great energy. They go really in depth. They're huge Negan fans. So they're, we'd rather hear from them than me.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_07] I listened to every episode and I loved it guys. Like I kept wanting to call in, but I just, my timing never quite worked out. Alex gave an incredible shout out to Peter, which I thought was really funny when he was talking about Alden. I was like, yes. But no, I could listen to those guys shoot the shit all day, every day. It was really, really fun. And yeah, I just, I had a nice time being a listener. So thank you both for covering it.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. We, we should see if they want to come on for more Neekin episodes just because I'm sure people will be missing them. Yeah. I would recommend checking them out if you didn't get around to listening and I just feel lucky that they wanted to step in for it. So thanks again to you too. And before we get into the episode, the rewatch episode, we should talk a little bit about what we thought of dead city season three. Did you watch it Robin?

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_06] Oh no. No way. No. I think I watched a clip of a, a character making a surprise appearance that I went, that's enough for me.

[00:06:03] Yeah.

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. Right. Yeah. Well, we're going to, we're going to have spoilers for dead city season three. So you should skip ahead a couple of minutes if you don't want to hear anything about it. We're just going to talk briefly. I figured we should talk a little bit about what we thought about it. I, uh, we, Lucy and I have both seen it and, uh, you know, it was known that, uh, they kind of booted the show runner and brought in a new one, Seth Hoffman, who was a writer

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_08] on the walking dead in seasons four, five, and six when it was at its peak. So I was really curious to see if that would improve dead city. And I thought it did.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_07] I loved it. I genuinely liked it. Yeah. I was, no one was more surprised than I was. Um, there were still bits that I thought were. That's it. And there were bits where it maybe pushed the envelope a little bit into like, really would, would these characters do that? But I was thinking about it a lot in the run up to this episode about what dynamic shift they made with Maggie and Negan that made me buy it this time around. And I think it's the idea that Negan is like her servant.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_07] Like he's just so astonished that she is giving him the time of day that he will actually be loyal

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_08] to Maggie and that he has this weird kind of servant that acts up every once in a while. Yeah.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_07] Her servant that needs to be hit over the face of the newspaper now and again. Um, I thought Jimmy Simpson was a great addition to the cast.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_08] Very good. He was my favorite thing about it.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. I loved Raul Castillo. He was a favorite of mine from back in the days on looking.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_08] Um, nice little flirtation with him and Maggie.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_07] Very worthy suitor for Maggie. I thought Logan Kim was much better written. I loved getting to Herschel. I thought he played Glenn's son very believably. Absolutely. In a nice way.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. This is the Herschel that you want to see, right? Yeah. This is what you want to see from Glenn's son. Not a little weasel traitor, but a kid trying to do his best.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_07] No. And like full disclosure, I skipped season two. So I have no idea. Like, I think you could watch this season without having watched the first two. Yeah. I don't think you need to watch one and two to enjoy this one. Um, and it felt to me like Maggie was really channeling her father in a good way. Um, throughout. And I don't know, it gave Lauren Cohen more to do than just be mad.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_08] Glower. Yeah. Which I think she really wanted Lauren Cohen. Well, I pretty much agree. I think the storytelling was way better. I really felt invested and engaged the whole time. It was like a reverse view of the walking dead where the show runner change went for the better instead of for the worse. Um, I thought it was pretty cool to see them trying to build a civilization. I love the focus on Maggie trying to renew herself and sort of, yeah, get over that focus

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_08] on Glenn's death and just being upset and sad all the time because it's been several years. So she deserves to move on and have some happiness. And, and, and I love how they showed her kind of gingerly returning to this more relaxed, vulnerable, open version of herself, but not without some being a little scared of it. You know, like we all would be like, Oh, do I really want to, can I risk like enjoying myself again?

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_08] I really love the alternate reality episode.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_07] I was going to ask what you thought of that one. Yeah.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_08] I mean, I wanted walking dead to do stuff like that. So, uh, they had a whole episode that was what if the zombie apocalypse never happened in Maggie and Negan met in New York city. And it was just really fun to see them in civilization. Uh, although I thought it was unbelievable that Maggie would keep hanging out with a guy who took her on a date where he intended to kill someone. I think that would be a deal breaker for most people. And if it's not for her, that's a real problem that she needs to seek some help with.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_07] I think Maggie. Yeah. I think one of the takeaways I took from it is Maggie's flawed as shit too. Like there are things with Maggie that are as problematic, not as problematic. She's obviously not done the shit that Negan's done, but I find that episode really interesting because it lands in quite a dark place for both of them.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_08] I like that. Cause it was karmic. The idea was of the karmic wheel and they were like almost ready to move on to the next phase, but then they kind of backstepped at the end there. So you need to have to repeat the reality again or something like that.

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_06] Mm. Was that episode the context for, um, Beth appearing? Yes.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_06] Which was nice to see. Yeah.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_06] I did like that one clip that I saw, even though I decided not to watch the season.

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_08] If Beth somehow just came back to life, then no, that wouldn't have been. Yeah. That would be good.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_06] Yeah. I figured it was something like that. It was like a dream. At this point, I'm not putting anything. I'm not putting anything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised. Right.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_08] Well, but you know, overall I think, so that was the good, the bad, I gotta say just because this is why you didn't want me, um, hosting this podcast. I think it's fucking ridiculous that Maggie would want anything to do with Negan. And whenever they were on screen and shared a tender moment, I see, I was like, what? No, I like, I agree. It's not fair to judge someone by their worst moment.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_08] But if someone's worst moment is brutally killing my partner in front of me and then laughing about it, I'm never going to be their friend. I don't care how many times he saves my son. I would say, thank you. Now let's go live our lives separately. And, um, then the part about the New York story that did bother me was that Negan was hunting this guy because this guy was a sexual predator. I'm like, you're a sexual predator. And that's the thing you've never, you've never owned up to.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_08] You piece of shit.

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_07] It's interesting. Ben and Alex had a theory about that, that I found compelling to say the least. What they say? I don't know if I believe it. Oh, it was a whole-

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_08] A karmic thing or something?

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_07] No, it will, it will come up when we cover the episode where the wives are taking pregnancy tests. Um.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_08] Okay.

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah.

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_08] Oh, if they're saying that he, that Negan never slept with them, then no, I don't buy

[00:12:06] that at all.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. Maybe we won't talk about it. That's ridiculous.

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_08] No, I mean, I'm fine talking about it cause I'm curious what they said, but I, I don't know if I can believe that. We'll see. The last thing is it bothered me a little bit that the focus was on her sort of wanting to really go big with rebuilding civilization, which I think is good and not mentioning the Commonwealth because the Commonwealth is a success story that she knows about. And it seems like she would mention it. And I think the reason why she didn't is because the writers probably didn't want to diminish

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_08] her efforts by reminding us that it's already been done. But to me as a fan, I want the continuity and, and I just, I hate when shows of old used to ignore things like that. So it felt like that, you know,

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_07] they're in a bind there because I bet AMC are holding back on that in case they decide to reboot or in case they decide to do something that's like an Avengers all-star meetup. So I would imagine the writers aren't able to mention it because they don't know. They don't know if it's still around.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. Yeah. I guess so. I mean, it kind of bothers me too, that Maggie is her best friend's Negan and she seems like, Oh, I'm all alone except for this guy. And I'm like, well, you have other friends. Like we've seen you build up relationships for years with these people.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_07] He's my problematic bestie. Um, yeah, I find it cause I think the one, my rational, irrational part of me is like, yeah, exactly. If you killed your partner, then you're never going to forgive them. But I find myself thinking a lot, what would Herschel have done? Um, as in Maggie's dad, Herschel. And that's where I sort of wondered if I, I'm hanging out with more Christians these days. Um, it's a long story. Um, but basically I'm thinking a lot about the concept of grace and what grace you offer people and what grace you give in life.

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_07] And, um, Maggie gives Negan a lot of grace that he knows he does not deserve. And through that she forges this weird loyalty from him that serves her well in this particular period of her life in dead city. And it was interesting to look at it through that scope. It's not an equal partnership and it never will be, but he, her power over him is that

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_07] as he says in the final episode, she is too good for him and her forgiveness is too good for him. And she's like, yep. And I was just like, damn, that's an interesting power to play with.

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_08] And yet like he holds a gun up to a guy's head and kills him. And then Maggie defends him endangering other people. It's like, Oh, I, I, I just don't like it. I don't like that. She has this bond with this guy. Um, but you know, I know a lot of people, I went to the IMDb. I mean, not IMDb, the Rotten Tomatoes where it has a hundred percent review score, only a few reviews, but then the audience scores 50%.

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_08] And you go down and people either say it like you're saying they love it or they're like, I don't, they're like me. It's like one or the other, but I actually liked it on its own terms. Like if I could forget about the past and just appreciate that it says a piece of fiction in and of itself, then I thought it was great.

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, it was. And I think it's, it's given me an interesting perspective going into the season, thinking about where they end up and just, I'm trying to, I'm sure there is another example possibly from Game of Thrones or something of it. It's, I know exactly who I'm thinking of, Stannis and Davos where Stannis punishes Davos for having stolen or something. And then he wins his loyalty forever. It's that weird dynamic of like, I did a bad thing, but the person who I wronged forgave me.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_07] And now I'm loyal to them, to the hilt because I'm not worthy of this. Obviously Davos didn't do what Negan did, but anyway.

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_08] Which makes a huge difference to me. Pardon? The, the, the, what do you call it? Degree matters. Yeah. Yeah. Like say somebody nuked a country, then you'd be like, I want to practice forgiveness and show grace.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. Yeah. But I'm not arguing for that. I just think what Maggie and Negan have come to is interesting.

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. All right. Let's move on to The Walking Dead season seven, episode two, The Well. Robin, would you like to read the plot summary?

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_06] Yep. Um, so Carol and Morgan arrive at the kingdom, a well-established community run by Flamboyant, former zookeeper, King Ezekiel. The kingdom, like Hilltop, has been purchasing for the saviours under the threat of violence. Although Ezekiel is kept his arrangement secret from most residents of the kingdom. Carol recuperates and eagerly prepares to abandon the community, but opts to stay in an isolated house nearby after bonding with Ezekiel.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_08] So, Robin, you wanted to come on for this one. What was it about this episode in particular? I mean, it's a great episode.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_06] Um, mainly the fact that it's the first kind of introduction we get to the kingdom and to King Ezekiel. To be honest, uh, he's one of those characters that grew on me a lot. I, I, I did find him quite grating, I remember, the first time. Just because the whole, the kingdom speak, I was kind of with Carol on the whole, like, awkward. But...

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_08] Are you shitting me?

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_06] Yes, but by the end of it, I just think he's one of the best characters. And I love Carrie Payton. I think he's amazing.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_08] Yes. Absolutely.

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_06] Everything about it. Also, he has a tiger. He has a tiger. He has a tiger. And it's not like the, the deer. No. It's a well, it's a very well...

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_08] It's, you can see it CG, but it's beautiful. That's how I see it anyway.

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. It makes the deer less understandable.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah.

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_07] I actually know because it's the same season, right? So they spent all the money on Shiva. Yeah.

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_08] That's Shiva's fault that the deer sucked.

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_07] That's why they had to kill her off.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_08] Probably, yeah. Um, yeah, it's interesting how this episode, it felt differently to me because the first time through years ago, it was like, oh, what? This is, I mean, we knew from the comics, but this crazy community you're exploring and meeting all these people. But now it's like, oh, we're meeting all these characters that we came to know, you know? And some of them are going to be around till the end, many of them.

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_08] And so that's, it was different now. It was more like, all right, here's Jerry. Here's Ezekiel. Awesome.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_06] Diane!

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah, Diane!

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_06] I'm literally an adult that's like, Diane is here!

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_08] What's the guy's name? Gavin?

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_06] Oh, fucking, I love you.

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_08] You always say he's like the kind of aggrieved but sensible manager type or something like that.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_07] He's just like, he's a savior. He's like, he's not not into it, but he's like, there are better ways I could be spending my time. And also he has to line manage Jared, which sucks. Yeah. So like, yeah.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_08] He's a handler.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_07] I just love him.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_06] He's a handler. He's a savior, so he sucks. But he sucks the least. Yeah.

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_08] I mean, because in season six, like, Lucy would be like, all the saviors are like, he he he. And that's absolutely how Jared is. But Gavin's just sort of like, all right, we got a job to do. Where's my clipboard?

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. Are we? Where's, what's the quota? Ah, damn, you're one short. What am I supposed to tell the boss? Whereas Jared's like, me he he he. And I'm like, oh, this guy fucking sucks.

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_08] I love watching Jared. Those kind of characters. Like, I also loved watching, um, bro, uh, what's his name from Game of Thrones? Dickface. Oh, um, Joffrey. Joffrey, yeah. They're similar.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_07] Did you ever meet Jared at a con, Jason?

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_08] Yes. The guy who plays, um, Jared is Joshua Michael. And he's probably the actor of The Walking Dead that's least like his character.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_05] Aw, that makes me happy.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_08] He's super, super nice. Super chill. Man, I should have said he was exactly like Jared, but no, he's like the best. Really cool guy.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_06] I'm looking at my notes and when Jared had appeared for the first time, apparently I wrote, shut up, Greasy. And then, uh, parentheses, Jared. Jared. That was important.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_07] I wrote, I bet he's best friends with Alden. Which I don't believe to be true. I think Alden probably thinks he's better than Jared.

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_08] I gotta see a roommate comedy about those two.

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_07] I bet Jared thinks he's best friends with Alden and Alden's like.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_08] Jared, Jared's be like, why don't you ever smile, Alden? And Alden's like, oh God, puts on his headphones.

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_07] Alden's like writing poetry in his book. Like, like.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_08] Also, I mean, this episode was very, this is the totally obvious thing to say about it, but after the premiere, which was just terror and hopelessness and despair and domination and like, it just took away our hope and crushed our spirits. And then this is the opposite. Like, oh, maybe there is some hope left. And then they all get killed at some point.

[00:21:03] Yeah.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_06] Some emotional whiplash.

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_08] Lucy, how was it for you to go to revisit?

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_07] Wonderful. Wonderful. I was so happy to be back in the kingdom. Yay. I remember the first go round. I, being a little bit surprised that Carol and Ezekiel ended up together. I take it all back. Like by the end of this episode, I'm like, they totally had sex when he came around with that fruit. Just like, they were clearly fucking from now. Yeah. No, the chemistry between the two of them is unreal. I love it. Carol's finally met an equal and it's just so nice to watch.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_08] Mm-hmm. And they, they have that thing where they both wear masks. Yeah. So they have that in common and they can see each other. But underneath she's a cynic and he's an optimist, so they can round each other out, which a good couple has that too, I think.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_07] I think so. And it was so cute to see baby Henry. And I love that it's the youngest Lintz and all that. But I, I, yeah, I've got so many thoughts, but I was just so happy to be back. And it, I think Jay, weirdly Ben and Alex said on their coverage of Dead City that we timed it perfectly because in many ways season seven, episode one is actually the finale to season six. They're like, this is actually a really good place to break because this is way more like a season opener. Yeah. And I think it's a good way of looking at it.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_08] I just wanted to end on Negan being the absolute worst when we went into this season where Maggie and Negan are friends, but yeah.

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah.

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_08] Um, but, uh, so you mentioned it, uh, for people who aren't paying as close attention, this character Benjamin that, um, Morgan teaches or starts to teach how to fight in this episode, young guy, his, he's taking care of his little brother, Henry, because their parents were killed. And Henry is played by one of the Lintz brothers. I forgot his name. Is he Maxon?

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_06] Maxon.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_08] Maxon. Okay. Yeah. And that's the brother of the actress who played Sophia. Yeah. Madison Lintz. Right.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_08] And then when Henry grows up after a time change, he's a teenager. He's played by, uh, something, some other Lintz guy.

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_07] It's an M as well. It's like, yeah, it's another M Lintz.

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_08] I interviewed him. Yeah. So anyway, there, the, all the Lintz family got to play more characters. That was kind of fun.

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_07] I like to think that Melissa McBride goes over for like Thanksgiving to hang out with him. She's like, uh, all my dead children. They all start crying.

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_08] Trauma.

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_07] Oh, amazing.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_08] All right. Shall we move into our points? Robin, would you like to go first?

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_07] No.

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_08] Losing.

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_07] I'm afraid. I can. Yeah, absolutely. Um, minor kind of in chronological order. So I'm trying to think about how to, as I say, I've had a summer off, so I've forgotten how to podcast. Um, I'll talk a bit about, um, Carol in this episode. Carol is proxy for the audience. Um, the way she reacts, everything. The only way they could have introduced the kingdom is through the eyes of Carol and Morgan because it's so ludicrous.

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_07] And I think I remember reading that Kirkman wrote Shiva in after the show had started because he was like, there was a part of him that was like, ha ha, what are you going to do about this? There's a fucking tiger. Um, so I think it was always going to be a hard sell, but the way that they did it, allowing space for Carol to be the audience eyes and ears and say, what the fuck is this? And I'm so sorry that they weren't allowed F bombs. Um, at this point you're shitting me right is a great line, but it's good.

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_07] What the fuck would be better?

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. No, but the whole thing of first off Morgan knowing that Carol's not going to receive this well.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_07] Morgan's hesitant sell is just so good.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_08] I got to introduce you to the guy and his name's King as he he'll go. And then he like wheels her in and she's like, what? And then, and then she pretends to, Oh, I wish I had a comb. So cause I didn't know I was going to be visiting royalty. And then he wheels her out and she's like, what the fuck? That was classic walking dead and a very memorable scene in all of the walking dead.

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_07] I would say it was just so good.

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_08] Or she's like, I don't know what's happening in the most wonderful way.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_07] It's just so fun. And Melissa McBride, man, she just everything she's in. I just think it's incredible. I'd forgotten the really weird start to this episode where Carol is seeing the walkers as people again. And that was actually really interesting coming off dead city season three, where there is a character who very much sees walkers as people.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_08] Um, Lizzie's in it. Yeah. No, yeah.

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_07] Lizzie. What would happen if Lizzie grew up? Um, so yeah, that the visuals of Carol in that kind of feverish state are just incredible.

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_08] Yes. Disturbing to see like somebody stabbing one in the back. In the head. And then it's a person. In death. Or getting ready to smack one and it turns to a person and you see him hit him. Yeah. Really. And I, I, I didn't come up with this myself, but I read someone was saying Carol's having trouble, uh, divorcing herself from the humanity of people. Yeah. And I think that's a, I think that's a, I think that's a, I think that's a good, I think

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_07] that's a good, I think that's a good mental head space. And I think that in amidst all this, you just get this iconic meet cute with Carol and Ezekiel. Um, he talks about pomegranates as being contradiction by heaven for the effort. And I'm like, that's Carol. You're talking about Carol. She's a contradiction, but you're going to make an effort to figure out what's hiding underneath the surface. And I was like, that's a cool metaphor. Um, I loved Carol stealing. I thought that was hilarious.

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_07] Just her arm popping out of the frame and picking up that knife. Like I laughed out loud at that. And I, I was really tickled when she started crying about cobbler. She's like, there's lunch cobbler. And I was like, one, I'm so sorry. Lunch cobbler sounds disgusting. However, just a note for UK US dynamics in the UK were more crumbled than cobbler. But I have a friend who was born in America who makes cobbler. Cobbler is nicer. I think cobbler is the superior. It's really good.

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_08] My grandma used to make it. Yeah. That moment where she's, he's, she's, they're mentioning the cobbler and then he says lunch cobbler and then he goes, yeah, we have cobbler every meal. And then that's when she starts to freak out a little bit. And I felt like that was the same emotion as when she said, I don't know what's happening in the most wonderful way where she's pretending to be astonished, but really underneath. She's like, what the fuck? Yeah. But then she also, what did she ask him for? A tissue or something? Yeah. And then she stole the clothes. And then she stole it.

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_08] So it feels like, oh, was that just an act so she could steal? I don't think so. I think she's going, fuck you with your cobbler all the time. I'm out of here.

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_07] I love her whole scene with Ezekiel. And I'm sure we'll talk about that in more detail. So I won't, I won't sweep in on that one. Um, I really like her and Morgan's dynamic at the end when he says she's his most favorite person that he's ever knocked out. But then he remembers Rick and he's like top one or two.

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_08] Two or three. Yeah.

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_07] And I do think Ezekiel is coming over for a booty call at the end. Like he's into her. He's so into her from that point onwards. And it was just really nice to look back and see that when I hadn't seen it the first time around. So yeah, the two of them, I just can't wait for it unfolding.

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_08] The fact that he convinced her to stay and seemed, he was into her from the beginning and, and, you know, I'll get into a little bit more detail later, but the fact that he revealed his true origin to her so quickly, I remember being like, oh, wow, you just tell someone right away. So the walking dead audience can hear it. But no, I think he recognized like meets like, and yeah, he knew that it was like, you can't bullshit or bullshit or that kind of thing.

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_08] But also he was into her and then he convinces her to stay and his charm actually works on her, even though the whole thing is that she's skeptical, skeptical of all this bullshit. She buys into it enough to compromise and live a little bit away. And I thought, oh yeah, it makes sense that if anyone was going to be able to have, Carol relax a little bit and feel safe, it's him. Cause he also tamed a tiger.

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_08] But then when he showed up that night, that's what, especially, I don't know if I thought it back then, but this time I'm like, oh yeah, he's on the make. He came over right away. Didn't give her any space at all.

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_07] He's like, I brought a bum and granted in my tiger. I'm like, all right, keep it in your pants as you go. Well, don't, I mean, it's fine. But like also, yeah, it just made me laugh a lot.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_06] But also, is it weird to bring your pet tiger to the booty call? You know, she likes to watch.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_08] I'm not into it. She's like, what's his name? Eugene.

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. I'd rather have Shiva than Eugene in the room. I'm just saying. Yeah.

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_06] Yeah. True. I did notice as well when he opens, I know it's probably just because it's, she's a CGI tiger, but when Carol opens the door, it's not Ezekiel standing in front of her. It's Shiva. And Ezekiel's off to the side like an apple.

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_08] It's a little off-putting.

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_06] I'm like, damn. Millie, don't answer. Millie, don't knock on the door tiger first.

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_07] But that's like, that's why she's the woman for him. Cause she doesn't even blink. She's just like, and then she gives that little smile at the end. I'm like, Oh yeah. These guys are off the hook.

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. If you're going to have a suitor in the zombie apocalypse, the guy that shows up with the tiger, that is fairly impressive. I would assume.

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_07] Absolutely. So yeah, that was my kind of first point.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_06] It took a while, but it worked.

[00:30:50] Carol.

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. That's right. All right. Do you want to go now, Robin? Or shall I go?

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_06] Um, I'll go.

[00:30:59] Cool.

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_06] I, I want to talk about Richard because I think Richard is the catalyst for a lot of the hot problems that I nearly said held up. A lot catalyst for a lot of problems. The kingdom do end up having, because I did remember that he was very, you know, like angry about the whole situation with the saviours.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_06] And you know, when, when Ezekiel says the thing about them being free and he has to cut in to say, have we be free? Uh, through, but yeah, um, he's, he's kind of screwing with them from the, from the very first time we meet them. Um, I mean the pigs when the, Morgan's asking like, why are you feeding the pigs zombie meat?

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_06] And he's, he's literally doing it out spite, which, uh, good effort, but also pigs in generally everything. And we still eat them. So I'm assuming that didn't do anything, but you know, he does that. I can't remember.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_08] I feel like maybe something did come of it. Like they were starting to get sick from it, but I could just be making that up in my

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_07] This is one of those like walking dead lower things where when you put a bit of pressure on it, you're like, but Bob was tainted me. And yeah. Yeah. And then I'm like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_06] I think I can only justify it in the sense that pigs in real life, uh, will eat anything and everything. And still people eat them. And they probably eat a lot of horrible stuff. I mean, they eat people.

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_08] I mean, they're desperate, you know, he's trying anything, even if it only had a small chance of working.

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_06] Oh yeah. Yeah. I totally get why he's so like aggressive about it. But ultimately I think he is a very big factor in what then goes down with the kingdom And the saviour is kind of up in that thing. Even the altercation he has with Jared, like Jared is winding him up on purpose. Yeah. He's trying to get a reaction out of him and it worked.

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_06] And then, you know, Gavin says like, you know, it's going to be him first.

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_07] Does that mean he'd be first in the lineup?

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_08] First to die. Yeah. As a punishment. Yeah.

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_07] I do kind of feel at that point, I'm like, I think everyone's pretty pissed off at Richard. I don't think that's the threat you think it is. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. He's like, oh, and everybody else is like, whoo.

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_07] Everyone else is like, oh my God, I thought it was gonna be Jerry. We love Jerry. All right.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_08] We got a little cushion here. Thanks Richard.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_06] But yeah, even like past this episode, there's a whole, I forget, we, spoilers for like future, the future of the season is okay. Yeah.

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_06] So he, he, my Carol is also my favorite character in this whole series, but he's also the one that ends up being like, oh, you know, there's that, you know, that sad old lady in the house by her own. We can, we can frame it all on her. But he's saying this to Daryl. So yeah, Daryl's like, ah, touch her and you're dead. That's so funny. Die. And then, you know, that leading up to his whole plan where he's essentially gonna kill himself

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_06] on purpose, which is the episode before, um, the episode where I actually caught up to the walking dead, which is bury me here or bury me here. Uh, so yeah, Richard, Richard sucks. Yeah. And he looks, I get him. I understand his reasoning, but I'm like, damn bro. You're kind of making it worse for everyone.

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_08] Um, I only have vague memories of all that stuff. I remember him messing up big time, but I don't remember how. Uh, and then I remember, I feel like I remember him being regretful about it and then paying for it. But for me in this episode, I mean, I don't mind. I totally get him saying we're only half free cause he's, they're not happy with it.

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_08] You know, they're the only ones who know. Mm-hmm . And also trying to do something with poisoning the pigs or whatever, even though it probably won't work. I agree with you. He shouldn't have went after Jared who was just trying to wind him up, but then he had to sit there and take a few punches, which is, you know, Jared, it's humiliating and he would have beaten Jared too.

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_08] He had him in a headlock, but then, uh, Ezekiel told him to stop cause he just wants to preserve the peace. And, um, Jared punching him over and over again and sneering at him and everything. I just, that's like there's over and over again. And there's reminders that Negan in modern Negan says, I would just do what I had to do. I was trying to help my people.

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_08] But Negan, when he first came on the scene, loved to see people humiliated under his thumb and to iron their faces and sleep with their wives and just laugh at them as they were crying over the person that he just killed and all that kind of thing. And he's not on the scene right now, but you know, that trickles down that kind of leadership and Jared's channeling that here.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_06] I did notice as well that Gavin doesn't immediately stop him. No, he doesn't. Gavin deliberately lets him get a few hits in before he decides to kind of step in and go, ah,

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_05] Just the same way. Yeah.

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_06] So I'm like, even with Gavin kind of being the least awful of an awful group of people, it's still a little reminder that it kind of does suck. Yeah, he does. He works for Negan.

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_07] He's bad at his shit job. He's bad at his job being shit. Like he's just an absolute horror show.

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. And he could be the kind of guy who, if he had stumbled upon Alexandria would have fit in there fine. And I just think, you know, and, and a lot of saviors don't really know exactly what's going on. And back home, you know, the ones that are inside the walls, he's out there doing the dirty work. So yeah, you can't let him off the hook. No, absolutely not. So yeah.

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_06] With the people who stay at the kind of place where the saviors live, you know, the ones who are on like the point system, are they still considered saviors? Are they just people that live within them and work for them?

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_08] I don't think I've ever thought about that. I don't know. I presume they were all saviors, but yeah.

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_06] Because most people are kind of living, not, not, they're not slaves and they're not like prisoners, but you know.

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_08] Well, what about like, um, when we first met Dwight and Sherry and her friend, weren't they all?

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_06] It was their sister, wasn't it?

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_08] Did they all call themselves saviors?

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_06] No, it's interesting. No. And they do mention that they're running from someone.

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_08] Okay. Yeah, that's true. They never said it.

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_07] I let the episode run into the cold open for the next one this evening, because I got distracted and I wanted to watch Dwight make his sandwich.

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_08] Oh, I love that scene.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_07] It's so good. It makes, I'm literally like, I'm going to make a sandwich. Yes. I'll say this for the saviors. Great sandwich quality. If you like. But one of the things I noticed in that scene is there are like wives and kids and like people who aren't kind of the ding-dongs that we've been seeing. So it's interesting to think about what is it to live on the saviour compound, but not necessarily be a practicing saviour or one of the wives.

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_07] There is this kind of hierarchy in this tier and there are people there just making bread and living their lives and doing things under subjugation. So it was interesting to see that depicted because I think in my head they were all just variations on Jared, you know, the saviour ding-dongs.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. Right. All right. My turn.

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. I want to talk about Jerry.

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_07] Yay. I'm blessed.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_08] Jerry's the best. He, I love how he had not much screen time, but, and not many lines, but it's just instantly loveable.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_05] Such a presence.

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. And I found out that, um, before he even played Jerry, well, I already knew this Cooper Andrews spent years working on The Walking Dead as a crew member.

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_07] Did he?

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. He operated the boom and did sound work.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_07] I feel like I knew that and have forgotten it.

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_08] But then you hear that and think, oh, he rose up through the ranks, but that's not really what happened. He was also an actor. He played a small role in Halt and Catch Fire and he kept auditioning for a Walking Dead roles and getting turned down. And he said in casting, he didn't think they knew that he was on the crew, but he made an impression on Scott Gimple in auditions. And so they created the role of Jerry with him in mind.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_07] Oh, it's cool.

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_08] And then later he asked Scott cause he was going through the read through and he was playing it like a mean, uh, person or like a, you know, just serious and it wasn't working. And so he asked Scott Gimple, what, what did you see in me that made you want to cast me? And he, and Gimple said, when you smile, you seem really happy, but when you're not smiling, you seem really dangerous. So he just leaned into that part of it for this, the happy part, you know? And I thought it's good sort of for the kingdom as a whole.

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_08] It's a lovely place, but they're not just leaving themselves undefended. They also train and have warriors and things like that. And then when we, I remember there's a scene with Jerry with like an ax or something that he's just totally fierce.

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_06] Yeah. It's like a double sided ax, isn't it?

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_07] There's like a little bit of creepy Christian summer camp going into the kingdom. Like just a little bit of like, if it went midsummer, it wouldn't be that surprising, but it's, it doesn't. But you know, there's a little bit of like, everyone here is very pure of heart.

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. And they even have a choir. So that's creepy as hell.

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_07] I know. I do love that song, but you're right.

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_08] It's like, you're like, oh, it could go either way. Yeah. You're right. Especially on this show.

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_06] It's what I noticed, all the quotes on the wall are hidden.

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_06] Hope is the North star. Let it guide you. Right. And the thing about the well that he says, that's also in one of the walls. Yeah.

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. And that could be something that Carol would just be like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_07] It's given cult leader a little bit. I bet there's one that just says Jerry. King Zekio. Jerry. Jerry.

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_08] So I have the, a list of his best lines, which is all of them basically.

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_08] Shiva growls at Carol and Morgan and Ezekiel says, Shiva enough. The fair maiden has been through a myriad of trials. And Jerry's like, chill it up, S. Chill it up.

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_06] I love that one. Chill it up. Chill it up.

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_08] The fact that Jerry, that his name is Jerry. I mean, he's a great counterpoint to Ezekiel. Yeah. It's Ezekiel and Jerry. And, and Ezekiel speaks in the stilted old English. And Jerry has this like street slang and corny jokes. It's, it's good that they didn't stick another guy in there who's speaking the stilted old English, you know, that this works much better to have this contrast between the two. They're like a comedy duo.

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_08] Um, when Ezekiel says drink from the well, replenish the well. Once you've healed, of course, Carol says, of course, it's all about the well. Jerry says, well said. And then Ezekiel says, Jerry. Uh, I got two more. Ezekiel says, ah, where are my manners? Please partake. We're having magnificent apples, nectarines, pomegranates, all grown right here inside the kingdom. And Jerry just goes, it's fruit time.

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_08] I don't know why, but that tickled me.

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_07] That's such a like geeky uncle or dad thing to say. Like it's fruit time. Everyone's like, shut up.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_08] Then, uh, I think this one, for some reason people remember the most when they're in the garden and Jerry says, would you excuse us, Jerry? And he goes, you need me holler. I keep in hollering range. Deuces.

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_07] Deuces.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_08] So funny.

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_07] He's, I'm so glad Jerry gets a happy ending. He would have been such an easy heartbreak kill.

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_08] I know. I was surprised, but happy as well.

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. They toy with us a little over the years, but, um, yeah, I'm glad that he and Nabila get to have beautiful little babies and live happily ever after. It makes me happy.

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_06] I think Jerry dying would have been the final straw for a lot of people. All the people who survived Glenn. I think it just, I'm like, they couldn't do it with Jerry. Yeah. It's just like, yeah.

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_08] Punching someone in the heart or something.

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_07] And then kicking them in the balls and then spitting on them.

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_08] I, I, now, uh, Cooper Andrews is one of the actors most liked their character.

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah.

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_08] He, I've hung out with Carrie, Carrie Payton and Cooper Andrews a little bit more than most of the cast. Cause they came to a lot of conventions and we were in the Bahamas on a Walker Stucker cruise and I got to ride in the car with them and chat and everything. It's super fun. And they're just really cool and funny and great. And, oh, one story I've probably told this on the podcast, but on the cruise, when we had

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_08] a panel backstage, uh, Carrie Payton was doing handstands, I guess just to psych himself up for the panel or something. And then when we got on stage, I mentioned that I'm like, Hey, he's back doing handstands. I forget the details, but then, um, I'm, I think I said like Cooper, your turn as a joke and Cooper got up to do it and he was going to do a handstand. And, um, Carrie Payton looked over at me, like, should I spot him?

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_08] And I'm like, yes, he goes over and grabs his legs, but he did it. Uh, anyway, they were, they were, they were great. Uh, and I have this great, uh, the first panel I ever did with him. I of course introduced him like here, you hear you. It's all hail King Ezekiel or whatever. And, um, then he did an amazing panel. So I posted it on our podcast and, uh, that's not until after season seven, but, um, I'll

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_08] put a link in the show notes just because I'm talking about it. It was a good one.

[00:45:47] Hmm.

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_06] Carrie Payton's actually the only person from the cast. I think we have met, uh, him and Cooper, they were at the last Glasgow MCM they ever did. And it was, I was, I was running a critical role meet because I run a Scottish critical role group. Oh wow. DPD podcast. If anyone doesn't know what that is. I didn't realize that, Ruben. That's so cool. Yeah. Um, Scott's Mackinac, but he was there for walk and dead stuff.

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_06] And so was, I think Alden and Axel. Uh, so yeah, but because Carrie Payton is also good friends with the critical role cast. He, he had been a guest on the critical role cast. So we like went to see if we could maybe get a picture and the people running the panel or the not running the booth. Sorry. We're kind of like, I don't know. And he was like, no, hold on. I want a picture. And they were like, Carrie, you've got to do a panel.

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_06] And he was like, no, I'm going to go get a picture. And he was like, I love your cosplay. You're a little elf. Cause I was Malin from Zelda. Oh wow. And we have this really great group picture. And with him in the middle around about all the big critters. It was just so, so lovely. And so was Cooper and Axel's actor. I didn't really speak to, but, uh, he kind of walked over to me and the person I was with.

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_06] And it was like, started telling us something about sandwich. And then threw his wrapper in the bin that I'd left. And I was like, great talk. Love that. So yeah, he, he's one of my favorites just in general. So, so lovely.

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_07] That's amazing. I didn't know you were in the critical role fandom, Robin. That's awesome. The only times I've watched critical role have been when Peter's like, Carrie Payton's on.

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_06] I'm like, Oh! I've been here since 2016. I actually ran all the stuff for the live show they just did in Edinburgh at the castle. Oh! Yeah. We tried to get tickets for that and didn't manage.

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_07] I love finding out other people's fandoms. Um, and I love that Carrie, cause he's a famous voice actor, right? So he was an obvious.

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_06] Yeah. I think that's why I love like Ezekiel so much. I think the fact that Carrie Payton is a voice actor really lends itself to the whole speech pattern he's got. I'm like, you can tell. Cause he speaks and I'm like, I don't know what the hell you're talking about, but you sound good. Keep going. I think. Yeah.

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_08] He did. Um, he, his big one was Cyborg, I think for Teen Titans. He was Aqualad and Young Justice, Grimlock and Transformers. Uh, he played Black Samson in Invincible, which is that Steven Yeun show where a lot of other Walking Dead stars have. And it's of course a Robert Kirkman thing, the Penguin King and the Super Mario Brothers movie. But my favorite is he was one of the Sims in Sims 3. Oh, really?

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_08] And so sometimes on panels, people would ask him to do the whole Simlish thing and oh, tea called party. Like that, you know? It was funny.

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_06] He was in Stray Gods as well. Um, which Laura Bailey and Ashley Johnson from Critical Role were also in and The Last of Us. Actually. Yeah. Ashley from The Last of Us.

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_05] That's crazy.

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_06] So like, Snatter was, yeah, he did Pan in that one I think. I think it was Pan. But yeah. It pops up in a lot of things.

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_07] I just think it would have been such an easy role to miscast. Like, I just feel like it really took a special kind of actor to really sell this very strange character. And I think they did, they made such a good decision to have him drop the act because he doesn't really do that in the comics until much later. And it's in a very different way.

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_07] And I just think having the decision to pitch, pitch him and Carol together and to have him drop it in such an endearing way and explain himself.

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. And she's not in the comic. So at this point.

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_07] And they just pick, I just think it's, it's one of those episodes of The Walking Dead where I'm like, yeah, you couldn't have done that better.

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_08] Like, it's having come out of such a... It was nice to see him drop the act and I'll be like, yeah, I was just some dude with the tiger. And after speaking like this the whole time. Yeah. But then I also, he has the right look for the character. And I actually, I like the character in the comics, but I like the character in the show way better.

[00:50:17] [SPEAKER_07] I totally agree. And it gives me hope because like, I don't really have any skills. My only skill is like improv. So it goes to show that community theater does count in the apocalypse.

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_08] I mean, listen to our episode of Welcome to the Apocalypse if you want proof.

[00:50:33] [SPEAKER_07] You'll see that I could actually get by. Okay, mom, I could live in the apocalypse.

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_08] We're going to start a podcast commune.

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_06] I'd be screwed. I have a bad foot. I have a bad foot. And also I don't want to live through the zombie apocalypse. So I'd just be like, I'll feed Shiva.

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_07] There's a game show on in channel four at the moment called Apocalypse, which is they've basically put people into the zombie apocalypse. Well, there aren't zombies, but into apocalypse situations to see how long they survive. I haven't watched it yet. I feel like if I get a lie in the weekend, I might tune in because I'm intrigued.

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_08] It's cool. They're supposed to do a fallout reality show where everybody's in the vault. Oh, nice. I think that might be coming at some point.

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_06] Yeah. Did you ever hear about or watch or kind of see advertised in back in like 2015, 2016? There was a show on BBC three called I survived a zombie apocalypse. Oh, my God. And it was actually filmed at the God, is it the fort in West Calder? Oh, no way. In West Lothian. And so they did like, it only lasted six episodes, but it was a similar concept.

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_06] It was kind of like, oh, there's a zombie apocalypse happening. And like, they had these really cheesy pre-recorded deaths for when people died and stuff. But yeah, similar concept to I think, well, I think it's just called apocalypse, isn't it? Yeah.

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_08] A apocalypse. Craig Nicotero had some horror one recently, last year, I think, where people are in horrific situations with all the, them doing all the makeup of the monsters and stuff. Oh, really? I never got around to watching that. I wonder if it was any good. But we should keep going with the episode. Yeah.

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah.

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_08] So, whose turn is it? I think it's Lucy's.

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_07] Mm-hmm. Yay. Um, Morgan in this episode. It's, and Morgan is such a good fit for the kingdom. Um, and I, I find Morgan's character quite divisive. I will always think that Lenny James is a fantastic actor and I've got a lot of affection for Morgan, but his turn on fear really soured me to his character in a lot of ways. So it's kind of nice seeing him as, I've written Morgan as a visiting lecturer in Bostaff

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_07] and he kind of fits that role really well. Um, I think having him to kind of temper, just like we need Carol to be skeptical. We also need Morgan to kind of buy into it, despite his logical brain maybe being a bit like, I don't know about this. There's something about the kingdom that speaks to him in a way that Rick's kind of rule in Alexandria doesn't. And that feels quite true to his character. Um, his.

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_08] I don't get it. What do you mean?

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_07] I think the kingdom.

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_08] Like he wants someone to inspire or something like that?

[00:53:26] [SPEAKER_07] I think so. I think that in season six we see Morgan and Rick quite at odds. You know, when Morgan turns up at Alexandria, Rick's covered in blood and has just killed.

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_08] Oh yeah.

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_07] Porch deck.

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_08] So it could be anyone but Rick is kind of what you're saying. Not exactly, but.

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_07] I think it's more, Morgan and Rick are bound together because Morgan saved Rick at the very beginning. If they met now, I don't think their relationship would be what it is. It's like they're each other's kind of exception because they, they owe each other this debt of, of what happens in clear and what happens in the pilot. I think the kingdom is much more aligned with what Morgan's philosophy post cheese maker is, which is. Oh, I see. Outwardly.

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. Peaceful.

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_07] Outwardly.

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_08] That's why Ezekiel brings him in immediately and starts taking him out because he sees that he has this. Both staff that's meant to defend himself, but not kill. Yeah. And when Morgan said you brought me along because you saw I killed someone and you want me to do that and he says quite the contrary or whatever he said, because then you see when there is a fight with the saviors, Ezekiel's the one who breaks it up. So I think he's the peacekeeper.

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_08] And I think the sort of idea is we learned from Benjamin that Ezekiel sent some men out on a, or people, I don't know if it's men, people out on a mission and eight died and he has been more careful since then. And so I think that's the idea is he's capitulating to the saviors because he doesn't want to spend any more lives and Morgan fits in with that. Right. Something along those lines.

[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_07] And I'm sorry that we don't get more Morgan and Ezekiel in the show generally because they are just neatly aligned in that way. And the way that Ezekiel dotes on Ben and the way that he sees Morgan or Benjamin, I think he goes by Benjamin, the way that he sees Morgan as a potential alternate path for Benjamin. It's he's not chiming with guns. He's not chiming with with knives or blades.

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_07] He needs to find a way that's that's somewhere in the middle. And Morgan kind of represents that sort of potential mentor role there. I would say like the, the, they waste no time in suddenly teaching Benjamin how to do bow stuff. And he's actually really good at it after approximately 10 minutes of tuition.

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_08] Um, but when they had him, like they get have him, uh, use the machete on this zombie and they're just like you were trained. And then he fucking whiffs it, man. What the hell are you doing?

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_07] With the bow stuff. He's like, and they're like, oh, yeah, he's great at this. Like, um, so I, yeah, I think Morgan's role in it as, as Ezekiel seeing him as this thing. And it really struck me. And this is kind of a tangent is how much Ezekiel dotes on Benjamin as the hope for the future. And you know what he wants things to become. And it's that loss is going to really fucking sting.

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_07] I'd kind of forgotten at the start of Henry's arc is the loss of this wonderful older brother. Who's like charming. He's like a bit bumbling cause he doesn't know how to kill, but he's looking after his brother. They're orphaned. He's read all the books. He knows how to fix an air conditioning unit cause he's read the book twice. Um, he's just such a lovely, lovely presence. Yeah. And he and Morgan have this wonderful dynamic and it's just knowing that Jared's going to

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_07] fucking wreck it in a few episodes time is really, um, that was maybe the one hard bit of watching this episode again. If I was like, oh God, I'd forgotten about this.

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_08] I forgot it was Jared, but it makes sense.

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. And it's supposed to be Richard, but yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I, I appreciated Morgan this episode and I liked the kind of understanding he and Carol come to at the end of the episode where they have that cute friendship moment and he sets her up in the house and I don't know. They're helping each other. Um, well, he's helping her. I don't know if Carol's helping Morgan. Um, yeah, I think his, his perspective is needed and it's just a nice fit to see Morgan.

[00:57:37] [SPEAKER_07] And in sync with somewhere rather than being in opposition to it. I think that always brings a nice quality to him.

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_08] Cause he came in and decided to stay for a while just until Carol recuperates. Yeah. And then he goes into a room and she's snuck out and I was like, oh, where's he going to go now? But Ezekiel had already started asking things of him and felt like wanted to integrate him in. And maybe it was working like train this kid, come along with me on missions. And so maybe Morgan's starting to feel like, oh, maybe I could have a place here and some purpose here. But I really don't remember a lot about where his story goes from here.

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_07] So I feel like Morgan is in Alexandria. It's like, he's the one vegan in a room full of carnivores. Where everyone's like, that's fine. We respect the fact you're vegan. We're fine with it. We're fine with it. Okay. Just don't think you're better than us. Okay.

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_08] We're eating steak that we killed.

[00:58:26] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. If you want to be lame, Morgan, that's cool. But like, we're just going to do our thing. Okay. Whereas when he comes to the kingdom, they're like, we're more of an omnivorous society. And we'd love it if you joined the choir and we have vegan Tuesdays. And he's like, oh yeah, I could live here. I could live here. So yeah.

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_08] I mean, I thought of, I always think of his, what in retrospect to me feels like flip floppiness. And he's in a transition right now because he just killed Roman after all of season six, having this all life is precious thing. And I felt like, I think my read on him is he's a guy who easily becomes unstable. You know, like in clear, we saw him at max unstableness.

[00:59:03] [SPEAKER_08] And when he came upon the cheesemaker and took on his ideology, that became something to give him, to anchor himself to all life is precious. I never kill anyone. And that certainty kept him stable. But now that he's killed a guy and he knows if I didn't do that, Carol would be dead. So it was the right thing, but then he's not sure anymore. And so Carol says, I don't give a shit if you think you found the secret to life. And he goes, no, I don't. I don't.

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_08] And then later with Benjamin, he says, people can try to set you in the right direction, but they can't show you the way, you know, you got to find that for yourself. I thought I had it. I did, but I'm just fumbling through. Sometimes we change our minds. So it feels like someone, you know, we have all had moments, periods of stability, clarity, peace, and then periods where we feel like, oh my God, my world's turned upside down. I don't know what to do here.

[00:59:59] [SPEAKER_08] And he feels like he's heading from A to B there.

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_07] That's really, yeah, I think that's really important to kind of, yeah. His veganism is being tested. He wants a Big Mac.

[01:00:11] [SPEAKER_05] Right, right, right, right.

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_08] He's going to be eating, going in with the pigs and champing down on the raw zombie. No, that makes no sense.

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_07] He's like, you guys have bacon? Those pigs were so flipping cute. I really liked the pigs. They were really sweet. I was sad that they died.

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_08] You see, the thing is that Ezekiel, I mean, Shiva has a diet of three pigs a week. They don't tell us that.

[01:00:35] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah, I know. The resources to keep that tiger alive, man. I mean, my cats are expensive enough and they're tiny.

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_08] Truth.

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_07] The house tigers.

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah.

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_06] House tigers.

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_08] Robin, what else do you want to talk about? Anything else?

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_06] Probably a bit more about Henry and Benjamin, I think. So, I have completely forgotten. Like, I remembered that obviously Benjamin and Henry are brothers and Benjamin's raising him. I forgot when he said like, oh, you know, Ezekiel's helped me out a lot with Henry. He's essentially said like, Ezekiel is also raising Henry. And obviously, further down the line, Henry is essentially his son, post-Benjamin, but

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_06] also the son that he shares with, yeah, Carol as well. Which just makes the fact of what happens to Henry specifically and the pigs and the way that Henry dies, in my opinion, even more devastating. Because not only, yeah. Like, how many years would that have been?

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_07] A lot? I was thinking about this, Robin. I think, I think, 10, 9, 10 years pass.

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_06] Yeah. And then that's not really including the relationship they had before we find out about them. Yeah. Because it's kind of implied that he, well, not implied, Ben outright says, you know, Ezekiel and my father were really close.

[01:02:11] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah.

[01:02:11] [SPEAKER_06] Which is part of the guilt there.

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_08] And I think the subtext is, yeah, guilt. Yeah. Ezekiel feels guilty.

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_06] I think this whole episode has a lot of guilt going through it though, because Morgan and Carol, even as characters, there's kind of like a thread of guilt running through everything they do, even if it's not conscious.

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_08] Well, Carol's like, do they know who we are? And Morgan's like, who are we? Yeah. She's like, we're the type of people that kill.

[01:02:37] [SPEAKER_03] Mm-hmm.

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_07] We're hardcore. Do you think, I wanted to ask you both that it was related to something you spoke about earlier. Did the, did the hilltop, have they suffered a lineup?

[01:02:50] [SPEAKER_06] Or do they, do we never find out? Not a lineup as such.

[01:02:53] [SPEAKER_02] You mean the kingdom?

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_06] The kingdom, sorry. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. No.

[01:02:59] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah, we don't know. I feel like we might learn something about that later, but I don't know for sure. Yeah.

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_06] They do seem to have a totally different arrangement from anyone we've seen since, because they specifically meet up outside of the kingdom.

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah.

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_06] Yeah. Like there's, there's a buffer between the actual community and the drop offs and the saviors. So I think it's kind of implied up to a point. They don't really know where the kingdom is. Mm. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah.

[01:03:43] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. You guys say that Gavin's style of leadership is much more kind of collaborative than other saviors. Yeah.

[01:03:49] [SPEAKER_08] He does say, hey, they've been good to us. We've taken up enough of his time.

[01:03:54] [SPEAKER_06] I wonder, do we know how they actually decide who goes to which kind of outpost and when and...

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_08] There's a chart. Alden has a chart.

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_06] Alden has a white, a white board in the back.

[01:04:06] Yeah.

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_07] Like, next week you're gone here. With his little Starbucks barista outfit. Like, Gavin's doing hilltop, Negan's heading to Alexandria, who wants to go to Oceanside. Like...

[01:04:19] [SPEAKER_06] Yeah, because they just seem to, again, they, again, being under the saviors is not good whatsoever, but...

[01:04:27] [SPEAKER_08] Gareth could have gotten a job there. He would have been good.

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_06] Gareth could have gotten a job there. The kingdoms seem to have it the best out of all of them in the sense that they've got a buffer between them. Yeah. They've managed to keep... Even the fact that Ezekiel has kept it so far. Ezekiel's, him keeping it secret is good for the general kind of population, I think, because, I don't know, if I was living in the kingdom during a zombie apocalypse, and a... That's bad enough. The leader was like, hey, by the way, there's this group of, like, violent, murderous people

[01:05:01] [SPEAKER_06] that are taking half her stuff every week. It's interesting... And joy! I would... I would just die. Of stress.

[01:05:09] [SPEAKER_07] It's interesting narratively as well, because it... The reason the saviors have gone unchallenged in a meaningful way is because there's been no critical mass against them. Mm-hmm. And what you see in this season is... It's really down to Jesus connecting the groups. And in the comics, it's Jesus who takes Rick to the kingdom. So, Jesus is someone who knows everyone. God, it really sounds like I'm trying to convert you guys. Like, Jesus is a friend to everyone. But literally, in the show, he kind of is.

[01:05:40] [SPEAKER_07] Jesus thinks. I think... Yeah, what I'm getting at is when they say, you know, the people back at the kingdom don't know, Benjamin outwardly says it's because Ezekiel doesn't want people to try and fight or to try and kind of push back against it or have unrest around it. And I think that's really interesting because what Rick offers them or what they come to is this idea that now they're connected, they actually stand a chance. And it's...

[01:06:07] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah, the community of it all is where the power will come from. And that's really cool to kind of see that percolating and coming to the surface.

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_08] This is leading into one of my points. Are you ready? Oh, go for it! For me to go? No. It's just, you know, the whole idea of Ezekiel, the king and the kingdom and the dichotomy between or, well, just sort of judging whether this is like good, hopeful inspiration like he wants or is it a delusional fantasy land like Carol says.

[01:06:39] [SPEAKER_08] And another thing about Carol seeing the zombies as people when she's discombobulated in the beginning and they have to fight them.

[01:06:51] [SPEAKER_05] Mm-hmm.

[01:06:51] [SPEAKER_08] That scene, which I thought was really artful, is I think it's supposed to be a mirror for the rest of the episode where she's seeing an illusion that things are fine even though they're not. And buying into that illusion would get her killed. And then she goes into this fantasy land of the kingdom. And that's how she receives it at first. I mean, Ezekiel even says, perhaps you see this place as nothing more than a mirage.

[01:07:16] [SPEAKER_08] You know, it's like, no, I can't afford to buy into your rose-colored glasses view of things because then my guard won't be up and I'll be dead. But that's a cynical view. And just looking at the kingdom, I love it. It's green. There's community activity. I feel like my kids would be better off in the kingdom than they are here on their screens. Yeah.

[01:07:40] [SPEAKER_08] The choir is led by a pregnant woman, which just like signals of hope and optimism and living their full lives. But they also have warriors in training and, you know, it's like hope for the best but prepare for the worst. And Ezekiel even makes that comment about there's being an optimist, but you don't see your feet or something. Yeah.

[01:08:07] [SPEAKER_07] Optimist looks up, but will trip because they can't see their feet. Pessimist looks down, but will walk into things. Hits her head. Just looks straight ahead and sort of balances both.

[01:08:18] [SPEAKER_08] And that's what he's trying to present himself as. Yeah. And the whole thing about drink from the well, replenish the well, that could be about resources and literal, you know, food, water. But it could also be about this just general attitude, like you were saying that Morgan probably appreciates of hope and positivity.

[01:08:41] [SPEAKER_08] And, you know, if someone's down, you can maybe try to help bring them up and then it'll be your turn at some point. He didn't say it this time, but Ezekiel always says, and yet I smile. I'm just meaning no matter what happens, hope is the North Star. Let it guide you, you know, just like keep going. I love that too. I don't believe in rose colored glasses. You have to face the truth, but I also think we shouldn't give up.

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_08] You know, you should never give up as long as you have a breath in you, you know.

[01:09:12] [SPEAKER_07] If I was going to get a walking dead tattoo, it would be that.

[01:09:16] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah.

[01:09:16] [SPEAKER_07] I think it's such a good one. I think it's such a good one. Cause it's. He should do it. The way he says it. Um, there's one scene in particular. I think it's in later seasons when he's talking to Michonne and he knows he's got cancer. And he says it. And it's like when Gandalf says to Frodo, it's a fool's hope. Like he knows it's stupid, but he's going to do it anyway. And I'm like, Oh, that's just like. Yeah. Very good.

[01:09:38] [SPEAKER_08] There's some, there's like some entity that the demon of the walking dead that enters into the writers and says, you have to stomp this person down. Whoever has hope. Cause Ezekiel gets fucking stomped and ground into the ground through this series.

[01:09:55] [SPEAKER_07] He's like dumped.

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_08] Right?

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_07] His kid dies. His other kid dies. Like his tiger dies. Cancer as you said.

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. Yeah. Everything. Almost everyone he's friends with that has been under his charge dead.

[01:10:09] [SPEAKER_07] He's like weeping. Like I smile. I smile.

[01:10:13] [SPEAKER_08] But then you know what? By the end, a spoilery podcast, everybody. He's the king of the Commonwealth and he's got a Mercer, I guess by his side. And you know, that was a great place to end the series because then in my mind, anyway, he gets to live happily ever after. And the only way that would be disrupted is if they had more episodes cause then they'd have to pour more shit on him. But so anyway, I'm glad that that was, I was really happy that I was surprised.

[01:10:41] [SPEAKER_08] I didn't think the demon would let that happen, but it must've taken a day off. Like the demon.

[01:10:46] [SPEAKER_05] Like.

[01:10:50] [SPEAKER_08] So yeah, I mean overall, I mean it is because of the demon that this doesn't work. That you can't be a hopeful person in The Walking Dead and not get shat on. And that's what happens to the kingdom.

[01:11:05] [SPEAKER_07] The kingdom is the flimsiest in many ways of the communities that we see. Even the way it looks. I don't know if it's because it's just the set of the kingdom is one that we see go to kind of rack and ruin in later ones, but I do love it. I love being back there. It made me really happy. It's just soft.

[01:11:24] [SPEAKER_08] You're saying though, kind of.

[01:11:25] [SPEAKER_07] Kind of. It just looks a bit jankier and I don't know if like some of the, the front of the buildings, it just doesn't look as robust as other bits. Like Alexandria, you've got the brick houses, hilltop, you've got the big fortifications on the outside. It just feels like hilltop was always just a little flimsier. Um, I don't know what the symbolism there is because I think Ezekiel is actually a pretty good leader. Um, but it does feel less embedded. Fortified.

[01:11:51] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. Yeah. I never really consciously thought about that. But now that you mentioned it, it's true. It's like, oh, it doesn't seem like they really put a lot of time into this. So it's probably not going to be around that much longer.

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_07] If they spent less time in the choir and more time fixing the walls, then I'm just saying.

[01:12:08] [SPEAKER_08] Anything else guys?

[01:12:10] [SPEAKER_07] I have some little notes, but nothing major.

[01:12:13] [SPEAKER_08] We didn't talk about the encounter with the saviors very much. Or did we? I guess we did. We spoke about Richard. Yeah.

[01:12:20] [SPEAKER_07] And Gavin. Richard. Who also looks so like David Morrissey that it's quite distracting. He really does.

[01:12:27] [SPEAKER_08] I'm just like, the, uh, that guy's Carl McKinnon. And my memory of him in person is that he betrayed everyone. No, I'm just kidding. He showed up at, uh, Walker Stalker. It was his first convention of any kind. And he was just amazed. I don't even think he knew about conventions. He's like, wait, I'm on a panel and all these fans want to listen to what I have to say and ask me questions. Really? No. Wow.

[01:12:57] [SPEAKER_07] That's so cute. It was really cool. Yeah, he was a nice guy. Super nice guy. I feel like it's amazing none of us have mentioned the epic face slice in the first, like, two minutes of this where someone slices a whole wall. Oh yeah. Literal face off. I was eating spaghetti while I was watching that tonight. Which I would not recommend. I was like, usually I have quite a strong stomach, but I was kind of like fork to mouth. Like, hmm. Um, I liked some of the little touches of things like prop work in the kingdom.

[01:13:26] [SPEAKER_07] There's a lucky rabbit foot hanging from the lamp shade in the room that Carol's in. And I loved the kind of art that you see outside. There's a, Jason, do you call them colanders in America? The things used to drain pasta?

[01:13:42] [SPEAKER_08] I think so. Yeah.

[01:13:43] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. Okay. I was like, is this gonna be one of those things where it's like, what weird oldie timey British word are you using? Um, it just made me laugh because we had the solar eclipse and one of the pieces of advice we got given was that colanders would help you be able to see them. Um, and poor Peter was standing in the middle of our street, um, in the middle of a heatwave holding a colander looking absolutely insane. Um, he would have fitted in in the kingdom.

[01:14:04] [SPEAKER_07] Um, I, Megan Dively Layman wrote into, uh, the dead city podcast to call out some, um, horticulture about when mulberries grow. I, I channeled my inner Megan and I was a bit, I kind of raised my eyebrows a little bit when I saw there were strawberries in the bowl of fruit at the kingdom because if the timeline is correct, it's not strawberry season yet. So I don't know where they got the strawberries from.

[01:14:32] [SPEAKER_07] Um, it was very nice to see Diane.

[01:14:36] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah.

[01:14:37] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah.

[01:14:38] [SPEAKER_08] She also, that's, um, Carrie Cahill. My one memory of her, I think I've told this on the podcast, but we were sitting in the green room, started up conversation. I don't usually do this, but decided to tell her I had a podcast and she should come on. And then we said, we were joking around that she would come on and pretend to be a total asshole for the first like 10 or 15 minutes and just give really short answers and, uh, then reveal the truth that she's normal.

[01:15:07] [SPEAKER_08] But we never did. I wish we would've done that. I think I was a little like, oh man, is that really going to work? But I think it would've been fun.

[01:15:13] [SPEAKER_07] I loved Gavin saying it's produce week. So produce. It's just such a fucking weird line. Um, and that is the end of my notes, but I do have timeline and IMDB dive as well.

[01:15:29] [SPEAKER_08] Do you have any notes, Robin?

[01:15:31] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah.

[01:15:31] [SPEAKER_06] Did you notice baby Henry on the horse? Yes. When, when, when, when Morgan waves to bend in the beginning. Yeah. He's on the horse. It's so cute. Um, and another thing I had was the whole thing with Ezekiel and his kind of outlook. Um, it's just kind of like an observation, but his outlook on everything. And that thing about, um, you know, plain pretend.

[01:15:59] [SPEAKER_06] It reminds me a lot of the last song in Hadestown. Uh, when Hermes says, cause here's the thing to know how it ends and still begin to sing it again. Oh. As if it might turn out this time. I learned that from a friend of mine. The whole thing is just like, it's a sad song. It's a sad tale, but we sing it anyway. Yeah. Which is, you know, it's about Orpheus and Ared to say in that context, but it's that thing of, you know, they're in a zombie apocalypse.

[01:16:28] [SPEAKER_06] Uh, they're going to wake up every day and it's going to be the same thing to some extent. People are going to be dying. People are going to be suffering, but to choose to live in that. Yeah. And to choose not to do what other people have done. Like the saviours have resorted to something.

[01:16:49] [SPEAKER_06] Even Rex group, the way, the things that they've resorted to, to choose to stay, I guess, quote unquote good in that situation. Which I think says a lot about Ezekiel as a character and his motivations and who he is as a person. And I think that's really nice. Yeah. I think I'm appreciating Ezekiel a lot more already this time round than I did. Yeah. And I liked him.

[01:17:16] [SPEAKER_06] Also, my very last one, which is a total 180, is, um, I've written, Ezekiel is Loki the Steve Irwin of the zombie apocalypse. Yeah. Because of the story when he's talking about Shiva and I'm like, that's just what Steve Irwin was doing with crocodiles. Absolutely. Everyone was like, God, you know, only Steve Irwin would have jumped into, jumped in and about a crocodile. Probably only Ezekiel would have jumped in with a tiger, an injured tiger too, at that.

[01:17:46] [SPEAKER_06] So, potentially even more violent. I'm like, yeah, he's a Steve Irwin beloved. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. That's all my notes. Yep. Ezekiel is Steve Irwin.

[01:18:01] [SPEAKER_08] So Ezekiel said to, who was he talking to? Carol, you know, explaining why he created this character and everything. People who feel safe are less dangerous, more productive. That's exactly the same thing Maggie and Renata were dealing with in Dead City, trying to keep everyone, you know, when they were scared, then they turned on each other. But when they felt safe, then they were okay. I just thought, I just binged that show. So that.

[01:18:29] [SPEAKER_07] All of my references are Dead City seasons.

[01:18:31] [SPEAKER_08] The themes keep repeating in The Walking Dead since it's been on for 37 years. Yeah. Um, Shiva, you were right. Kirkman put Shiva in the Walking Dead comic because he didn't think they'd ever put a tiger in the show and he wanted to prove to himself that he wasn't riding towards the show. And I was thinking, ironically, that means if not for the show, we probably wouldn't have gotten Shiva in the comics.

[01:18:57] [SPEAKER_07] I know.

[01:18:58] [SPEAKER_08] Because he was riding against the show and double ironically, they did put Shiva in the show.

[01:19:02] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah.

[01:19:04] [SPEAKER_08] They really followed the comic fairly more closely than I thought they would over the years.

[01:19:09] [SPEAKER_07] There's a shot in this, uh, the, the one just before the cold open in this episode where you just see Ezekiel and the tiger and it's straight out of the comics. It's great. That's cool.

[01:19:20] [SPEAKER_08] Last thing. Cause we've talked about everything else. More. I liked that they had Morgan carving a symbol on the mailbox posts because that's good continuity, you know, before they were seeing all those symbols and it was sort of a hint that, oh, who's there? It's a mystery or, you know, following Morgan around. And now that Morgan's back on the show, if it was fear, he would have just stopped doing it cause it's not part of the story anymore, but they realize that's what he does. So he keeps on doing it. I like it.

[01:19:49] [SPEAKER_06] And then he looks to the camera. He looks to the camera. I'm doing this. I'm doing this.

[01:19:53] [SPEAKER_05] And explains it.

[01:19:53] [SPEAKER_06] What was he doing to the mailbox?

[01:19:56] [SPEAKER_08] He was on the post. He was on the post.

[01:19:58] [SPEAKER_06] He would make thing.

[01:19:59] [SPEAKER_08] Oh yeah. That, you know what? I don't know why he did this, but when it's up, that means there's mail that you need to get inside the box or no, it means there's mail to be delivered. You want the mailman to take the mail out of the box.

[01:20:15] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, I know that. Oh. And then when it's down, there's nothing. I was really confused. I was like, why is he playing with this?

[01:20:20] [SPEAKER_08] What if Carol had some mail in there and he just put it down? He sabotaged her.

[01:20:24] [SPEAKER_06] That's so funny. Postman's have got to be a bit late, I think. Yeah.

[01:20:30] [SPEAKER_08] IMDB.

[01:20:31] [SPEAKER_07] So, according to an interview with Carrie Payton, AMC originally planned on having Shiva have the ability to talk. What? This idea was ultimately scrapped as it was seen as too silly. Yeah, I know.

[01:20:42] [SPEAKER_08] That's not true. I think Carrie Payton was having a laugh. Somebody hacked that in there.

[01:20:47] [SPEAKER_07] Or Carrie Payton took the piss in. It was just BSing. Yeah. Shiva the tiger is the first CGI character on The Walking Dead. She was done using a combination of CGI and animatronics.

[01:20:59] [SPEAKER_08] Well, I mean, really? Because there was a deer before. Does that not count?

[01:21:06] [SPEAKER_07] I think the deer wasn't really a character so much as something that got shot for Carl to get shot, I guess. Yeah. Alana Masterson, Josh McDermott and Christian Serratos were all updated to opening credit status in this episode. Also, Steven Yeun and Michael Cudlitz are removed from the opening credits. The song being sung by the Kingdom Choir in The Well is titled... Anyone want to guess?

[01:21:35] [SPEAKER_06] Don't think twice it's alright.

[01:21:37] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah, Don't think twice it's alright by Bob Dylan, which was written in 1962 and released on 1963's The Freewheeling Bob Dylan. And also as a single. Shout out to, I guess, Canadians. King Ezekiel's armour is actually STX Stallion HD La Crosse shoulder pads painted black. Didn't realise that La Crosse was a huge thing in Canada until I lived there. In the UK, it's kind of a posh thing.

[01:22:06] [SPEAKER_05] Oh my God.

[01:22:07] [SPEAKER_07] Okay. On set, a stuntman wearing a bright blue morph suit and sometimes a large blue foam tiger head... Sorry. ...acted as Shiva's physical stand-in. So Carrie Payton and Melissa McBride had a real physical target to interact with during scenes. Wow.

[01:22:26] [SPEAKER_08] Did it roar every once in a while?

[01:22:27] [SPEAKER_07] I would love to be that guy. The choir music heard inside the kingdom features an original arrangement performed by real local Georgia gospel singers, adding a warm vibrant tone that starkly contrasts with the brutal violence of the season 7 premiere. Um... Carrie Payton makes his series debut as King Ezekiel.

[01:22:48] [SPEAKER_07] Payton, who was previously best known for his voice acting work as Cyborg in Teen Titans, won the role after a secret audition where he performed Ezekiel's theatrical Shakespearean monologue. The exterior of the kingdom was filmed at the historic Fort McPherson, I assume that's McPherson in America, a former US Army base in Atlanta, Georgia. The production team transformed the brick barracks and parade grounds into a thriving, self-sustained medieval-style settlement. Um...

[01:23:17] [SPEAKER_07] Lenny James trained extensively with young actor Logan Miller, who plays Benjamin, to film their Bostaff martial arts practice scenes, establishing a father-son mentor dynamic that heavily influences Morgan's journey throughout season 7. Um... The CGI for Shiva was created by a company called Rhythm and Hues. No real tigers were used on set, just in case you were worried, due to safety concerns and also animal welfare. Um...

[01:23:44] [SPEAKER_07] Finally, in the opening scene after Morgan closes the mailbox, he and the small group turn and head towards a city, the kingdom. In the distance is the skyline of Arlington, Virginia, as visible from the Georgetown area of Washington, D.C. Just to give you an idea of where they would be. And the timeline is kind of weird now, because we're now after the lineup, but this is day 619 of the zombie apocalypse.

[01:24:08] [SPEAKER_07] Uh, this episode takes place the day after the lineup, um, that we saw in season 7, episode 1. Simultaneously happening is Daryl's ordeal in the cell, which we will cover next week.

[01:24:20] [SPEAKER_05] Mm-hmm.

[01:24:21] [SPEAKER_07] And I realized the well and the cell rhyme.

[01:24:23] [SPEAKER_05] Mm-hmm.

[01:24:24] [SPEAKER_07] Mm-hmm. So... But yeah, we're living in a post-line-up world.

[01:24:30] [SPEAKER_08] Only on The Walking Dead is sending a woman to live in a house with a living, murderous corpse inside, considered a chivalrous gesture.

[01:24:42] [SPEAKER_07] Only on The Walking Dead is Gavin, employee of the week.

[01:24:48] [SPEAKER_08] Love standards. You have one, Robin?

[01:24:52] [SPEAKER_06] Only on The Walking Dead is it acceptable to bring your pet tiger to your booty call.

[01:25:00] [SPEAKER_08] But if listeners want to try that, report back, please.

[01:25:40] [SPEAKER_01] Obvious threat to untold numbers of citizens. The people he kills get up and tip. Are they slow moving, chief?

[01:25:46] [SPEAKER_06] Yeah, they're dead. They're all messed up.

[01:25:53] [SPEAKER_08] So while we were gone, I think it was while we were gone, AMC announced that the final season of The Daryl Show has been canceled. Sorry! No. They announced it will premiere in 2027. We thought it would be later this year, but 2027. They don't have any timeframe other than that. Hopefully early in the year, but they haven't said.

[01:26:12] [SPEAKER_07] I was surprised by that. Yeah, me too. Especially because they haven't announced whether or not Dead City's getting another season. So I'm a little bit like, yeah, that surprised me.

[01:26:22] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. Yeah. My guess is that Dead City will get another new season because I think this season was pretty well received. And going by the, like when they do the little video behind the scenes stuff, Lauren Cohan and Jeffrey D. Morgan seem very game for more. Yeah. Um, and Gimple is game for more, but who knows? I mean, I don't know. Like we don't like, this is the final season of The Daryl Show.

[01:26:51] [SPEAKER_08] It's I think going to be eight episodes season four. And like you said, they haven't, uh, said whether Dead City will continue. But JDM is always saying there's more walking dead stuff coming. I personally, I think it's about time they wrap it up with a reunion, like a reunion miniseries or something, you know, but they just keep saying there's more.

[01:27:19] [SPEAKER_06] Yeah. Did you see that Norman has cut his hair off? What?

[01:27:24] [SPEAKER_08] He's a big bald head for real.

[01:27:26] [SPEAKER_06] Not bald, but he's back to like season four Daryl. Interesting. Someone got a picture of him out in public. They were like, God, this really is the end.

[01:27:37] [SPEAKER_08] Tired. Yeah. Tired of having the Daryl hair.

[01:27:41] [SPEAKER_06] Apparently him and Scott Wilson had an agreement that they would not cut their hair until they finished filming like The Walking Dead. Oh, so I'm wondering if it's to do with that.

[01:27:52] [SPEAKER_08] So he thinks he's done.

[01:27:54] [SPEAKER_06] But either way, rip to an era. Yeah.

[01:27:57] [SPEAKER_08] Interesting.

[01:27:58] [SPEAKER_06] Oh, come on.

[01:27:59] [SPEAKER_08] I mean, I hope that at the very least we get a Rick Rams cameo at the end of the Daryl show.

[01:28:07] [SPEAKER_07] Yes. It needs to be kind of tied together, man. It needs to, yeah. Loose ends make my ass itch.

[01:28:14] [SPEAKER_08] Exactly. Mic drop. Okay. Let's move on to Lister Moans, Grounds and Grunts.

[01:28:25] [SPEAKER_07] Okay. I've got Becca Loeb, who says, just watched the other day, Jerry.

[01:28:32] [SPEAKER_06] I have Damien Blackblock, who just says, Jerry.

[01:28:39] [SPEAKER_08] These all just say Jerry, by the way. They all just say Jerry. Lonnie Gilbert says, Shiva.

[01:28:46] [SPEAKER_07] Oh, not Jerry. Not Jerry.

[01:28:49] [SPEAKER_08] Eagly likable.

[01:28:49] [SPEAKER_07] Matt King says, just rewatched this. One of my favorite episodes of the entire show. Ezekiel and Jerry's entrance brings so much fresh energy and positivity to the show, which had become very dark. Seeing Ezekiel with Morgan and then Carol again was so good to see and getting an introduction to the kingdom.

[01:29:07] [SPEAKER_08] Yes.

[01:29:08] [SPEAKER_06] It's me next, right?

[01:29:09] [SPEAKER_08] Mm-hmm.

[01:29:10] [SPEAKER_06] Sorry, I already forgot. Amber Lobo says, this was an awesome light episode. I love Ezekiel and Shiva. The kingdom was like a sweet little fairy tale in an apocalypse. I was not expecting it to be so chill at this point. Feed from the pig's sets was a genius little form of subversion, and I felt for Carol. She seemed genuinely confused that King Ezekiel would care for her. Overall, I really enjoyed the episode and the music.

[01:29:36] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah, I like when she said, why do you care? Because it makes me feel good. Megan Diley Layman says, I will never forget the breath of fresh air that this episode was after its brutal predecessor. It kind of felt like in The Wizard of Oz when the house landed after the tornado and they walked into Technicolor for the first time. I like that. Ezekiel would go on to become one of my favorite characters and without a doubt my Walking Dead Universe boyfriend.

[01:30:05] [SPEAKER_07] Aww.

[01:30:06] [SPEAKER_08] How wonderful to meet Jerry and Carol's performance in the scene where she's wheeled in to meet Ezekiel and Shiva for the first time is legendary. Couldn't agree more. Well said.

[01:30:18] [SPEAKER_07] Leighy Disley. Would you say Disley? Like Disney, but with an L?

[01:30:22] [SPEAKER_08] That's what I'd say.

[01:30:23] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. Leighy Disley says, hello Jason and Lizzie. I thought I would finally pluck up the courage to comment to get through the dark ages season seven to eight. I have been listening since you began the rewatch, but anxiety has kept me from having more participation. Leighy, as a fellow anxiety sufferer, I hear you. Leighy says, absolutely love your coverage. It has really been a joy on many walks. For this episode, I think I echo everyone else. The Kingdom and King Ezekiel are such a delight after the season opener.

[01:30:53] [SPEAKER_07] I was lucky enough to meet Carrie Payton a few weeks ago at Birmingham UK Comic Con. He still has such enthusiastic energy for fans and you know straight away from meeting him why he was cast as Ezekiel. I hope to try and bring more thoughts to future episodes. I am a Dwight defender, so might get into that. Interestingly, Leighy. Cool. Thanks once again for this podcast. You are welcome. Keep writing in.

[01:31:16] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah, nice to hear from you.

[01:31:17] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah.

[01:31:18] [SPEAKER_06] Andy Fisher says, I love this episode of The Walking Dead. All's well that ends well. King Ezekiel and Shiva! I love the unexpected surreal introduction of Shiva and the actor who played King Ezekiel is amazing. Never bullshit a bullshitter. Take it till you make it. I think The Walking Dead creators learned from their mistakes about introducing new characters and communities here.

[01:31:40] [SPEAKER_06] For example, the governor's community, the hospitalities, and gave us a believable and fascinating expansion of The Walking Dead universe. I see myself in all the characters here. The devoted friend, Morgan. The wisecracking, faithful and steadfast soldier, Jerry. The wise impersonator, Carol. The meanificent politician, King Ezekiel.

[01:32:03] [SPEAKER_06] And the introduction to this episode, where through Carol's delirium, she sees the zombies as they used to be before turning into zombies and turning back again. What an incredible opening.

[01:32:17] [SPEAKER_05] Mm-hmm.

[01:32:18] [SPEAKER_06] Yeah.

[01:32:18] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. And after this, we're heading into the slog.

[01:32:24] [SPEAKER_06] The slog! We get one nice episode sandwiched in between two horrible, horrible episodes.

[01:32:32] [SPEAKER_08] I'm just...

[01:32:34] [SPEAKER_06] Good, but emotionally horrible.

[01:32:36] [SPEAKER_08] I was thinking about this all in terms of phases, like the rewatch, like the early episodes before the fandom really found the show, but we, well, whoever we diehards were, loved it. And then phase two, when it became the cultural zeitgeist, like the most popular cable show ever. And then phase three is season seven and eight, where it shit the bed.

[01:33:03] Yeah.

[01:33:04] [SPEAKER_08] That's where we're going into right now. But I mean, you know, we sort of think of it as a monolith, or at least, I don't want to say we like everyone, but that tends to be how we do things, human beings do things. They just, whatever the defining characteristic is, becomes the whole thing. So I'm curious to see what little gems we'll pull out and, you know, how we'll receive this. That said, if it ends up being feeling like a slog, then Lucy and I have said, we'll start covering multiple episodes at once just to get through it a little bit faster.

[01:33:30] [SPEAKER_08] And then after that is phase four, which are the Angela Kang years, seasons nine, 10, 11. Awesome years. Personally. I love that. I know some people listening never even saw it. So I'm really excited to go through that part with you guys. If you, if people make it that far with us, if we get there.

[01:33:48] [SPEAKER_06] I genuinely think they missed out.

[01:33:50] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. I think so. All right. It's my turn, right? Elena says, hi, Jason and Lucy. So happy you're back with rewatch. Well, glad you're with us. While I remember really enjoying the emotional break this episode provided with some distance time wise, I was surprised at how much it moved me again. As if I were watching it for the very first time, the writing and acting, including the face acting by both actors were superb.

[01:34:14] [SPEAKER_08] Observing Carol's face as she realizes her well-worn mask has been stripped by Ezekiel's perceptive yet penetrating words. That's very suggestive language. Elena. It was really something. It was really something. I mean, it's appropriate. Ezekiel has managed to tame two feral creatures with the utmost kindness. This is steamy.

[01:34:32] [SPEAKER_05] Elena, this is spicy.

[01:34:35] [SPEAKER_08] I love how he dropped his verbal pretense. Getting to hear his true voice was like drinking the most soothing of elixirs. Elena. It's cold shower. It's intentional. Man, do I love this character. And while I know we're in for a rough couple of seasons, it's nice to be reminded that we're also introduced to others. Jerry, who will be there to help ease the pain, at least somewhat. Good point. And Morgan. His scenes with Carol are among my favorites of this series.

[01:35:04] [SPEAKER_08] Lenny James is an astonishing actor. I find myself rewinding many of his onscreen moments because his intelligence shines through pretty much every word and gesture. Well said. Carol is so thoroughly seen by three men, Daryl, Morgan, and Ezekiel. And it's such a beautiful thing that she receives the kind of love and devotion she'd ever had in her violent pre-apocalypse life. So true. I love that.

[01:35:27] [SPEAKER_08] Anyway, I'll try to stick out season seven and eight in terms of viewing, but if I can't stomach it, I'll still be listening to each and every one of your podcasts. Thank you, as always.

[01:35:37] [SPEAKER_07] Oh, thank you, Elena.

[01:35:38] [SPEAKER_08] That was a ride. Thank you.

[01:35:39] [SPEAKER_07] That was amazing. I've got Renee. I feel like, Renee, you have such a distinctive voice. I feel like I'm not going to do justice reading your words, but I will do my best. So Renee says, hi, Adison and Lissy. I miss you guys. I miss you. I miss you. I miss you. I miss you. I'm so glad we're back to the Walking Dead podcast. Now, I don't know how long it's going to be before I'm able to join you, especially with the holidays coming up. Renee, I just, I love that you're already thinking about the holidays. I'm in deep denial.

[01:36:09] [SPEAKER_07] I'm like, I'm like, I saw like a fucking pumpkin in the supermarket the other day and I was like, get out of my face. Anyway, Renee says, especially with the holidays coming up, but I'm already excited just thinking about it. So happy to be back with you guys, but also not happy. Happy, but not happy. Happy, but not happy. Because of you know who, Negan. Crying face, laughing, crying face. Oh my gosh, that's all I can say.

[01:36:35] [SPEAKER_07] Negan the Sleegan because that man is sleazy, grimy and everything else I don't have enough time to name. Anyway, I love you all and I'm just happy we're back. Peace and love.

[01:36:43] [SPEAKER_08] And she also sent in a call and man, I miss you too. I'm so happy that you're back. We're all back together. Here's Renee.

[01:36:52] [SPEAKER_00] Jason and Lucy, who is glad to be back? It's me. I am so happy we are back to the rewatch. I definitely need this to take my mind off of what's going on in the real world. And this episode is the perfect little escape. Welcome to the circus with King Ezekiel and Jerry. His sidekick Jerry. I honestly do not remember all of this, but I am here for it. I'm right there with Carol.

[01:37:21] [SPEAKER_00] This is so much fun. But King Ezekiel saw right through her. Like he said, a bullshitter cannot fool a bullshitter. However, the saying goes. He knew exactly what Carol was doing. Exactly. And Carol dealing with PTSD. I completely understand that they have been through so much. And I am grateful for this little side quest because I am not ready for the Negan era.

[01:37:50] [SPEAKER_00] I already know what is coming. And that is exactly why I had to tell Alex and Ben that I can't do the Dead City podcast right now. If it wasn't on Friday, maybe I could make it work. But honestly, I don't know. I am looking at everything through a different, completely different lens now. I am so much older than I was when I first watched the episode. And things are hitting me totally different.

[01:38:16] [SPEAKER_00] And y'all already know, I was going to bash Negan the entire time. No pun intended. Well, actually, pun is absolutely intended. Because didn't that man literally bash people in the head with Lucille? And I wanted to literally bash him in the head. And it's like, Maggie, that is my girl. She is easily in my top three favorite female characters in the Walking Dead universe ever.

[01:38:45] [SPEAKER_00] So watching what they did to Negan and Maggie and Negan over there on Dead City is just jarring. I just, I couldn't take it. I just really couldn't. But King and Zico, Jerry and Carol, I'm looking forward to this rewatch with them. Even though, like I said, I'm not looking forward to it because of the heartbreak that I'm happy to be back. I'm happy to be back home with you guys. We're going to get through all of this together.

[01:39:13] [SPEAKER_00] The good, the bad, the heartbreaking moments. And I'm going to be crying and screaming and yelling at my TV. I'm still happy to be back home. And it's like, Carol, girl, you just do not know a pomegranate is the best thing ever. It's pomegranate season here in Atlanta. Well, another month and they're going to be so sweet and delicious. You take those little seeds out, pop them in your mouth and they are absolutely divine. But all righty, I'm glad to be back home.

[01:39:42] [SPEAKER_00] I miss you guys. I love you guys. Peace and love. Bye.

[01:39:47] [SPEAKER_07] Peace and love, Renee. We're back, baby.

[01:39:51] [SPEAKER_08] That reminded me when Ezekiel offered her a pomegranate and she said she didn't like them or something. And he said, sweet fruit surrounded by the bitter. There's somewhat of a contradiction, but heaven for the effort. That was a total flirtation. Totally. I feel like.

[01:40:07] [SPEAKER_07] Totally. They're very kind of mythologically interesting pomegranates as well. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think. Oh, God. Oh, God. I'm going to get this wrong. Someone gets stuck in the underworld and it's to do with pomegranate. It happens. Persephone. Right. I was like, Rob's going to know. Rob's going to know. And it's to do with pomegranate seeds, right? Yeah.

[01:40:29] [SPEAKER_06] Yeah. I think it's the whole thing. Hades, which goes down to Hades. She takes six seeds and that's why she's there for half of the year.

[01:40:39] [SPEAKER_07] Yes.

[01:40:40] [SPEAKER_06] Yeah. But there's the whole eating food is the thing that connects you to. And it was pomegranates.

[01:40:46] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah.

[01:40:47] [SPEAKER_06] All right. Well.

[01:40:47] [SPEAKER_08] Good move for turning it down then.

[01:40:51] [SPEAKER_06] Yeah.

[01:40:57] [SPEAKER_08] All right. That is our show. Episode 719. Glad to be back. Thank you for listening everyone. Robin. Thanks for joining us. It's been so good. I'm glad you and Lucy could be on together.

[01:41:09] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah. We're not the same person. Thanks. We are different. Our voices are different. Yeah.

[01:41:14] [SPEAKER_06] I have a much stronger accent. I think.

[01:41:17] I think.

[01:41:19] [SPEAKER_06] It's very dampened because I'm speaking to, well, because Jason is here. No effects, Jason. Yeah. It's, it's, I'm sure Lucy knows what I mean. It's the Scottish thing you do where you automatically start speaking in a totally different voice.

[01:41:35] [SPEAKER_08] Wait, you're saying this is dampened? No, I'm just kidding. Yeah. All right. Next episode with Randy is going to be The Walking Dead season seven, episode three, the cell because Randy's favorite song is easy street.

[01:41:47] [SPEAKER_07] Who's isn't? If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at podcast.com.

[01:41:56] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. Uh, like I think a lot of people don't actually go to podcast.com, but I do recommend that you go check it out. And if you go there and click podcasts, you can browse through all the podcasts that we've ever done. And that's actually, have you guys been watching that at all? No. I was going to ask you.

[01:42:20] [SPEAKER_07] Is it, is it, they love it.

[01:42:23] [SPEAKER_08] And I, and it is successful and well received, but I'm not, I'm not the naysayer. I do. I do. It is interesting, but I'm just not connecting with it as much as they are. Okay. So I guess I'm a bit the naysayer. So if you want to hear naysayer, listen to our podcast, um, coming up also on podcast, it got British bake off new seasons coming out with Nigella Lawson stepping in for fruit leaf. So I'm really excited to see how the dynamic changes with that.

[01:42:52] [SPEAKER_07] And I, uh, I did a Nigella impression at our last improv night. It was great.

[01:42:58] [SPEAKER_08] Were you acting seductive?

[01:43:00] [SPEAKER_07] I was, I had to do a cookery. I, the, the prompt was cookery show. So I just went full Nigella and started describing food in very raunchy terms. That's amazing.

[01:43:11] [SPEAKER_08] I wish I could pop over, teleport over and watch one of those shows. Um, next is, I mean, the other thing I wanted to mention, which I mentioned at the top is in a couple of weeks, Karen and I will be covering Widows Bay on everything's fine. A Widows Bay podcast and wax episodic.

[01:43:27] [SPEAKER_07] Oh, I can't wait.

[01:43:28] [SPEAKER_08] Mm-hmm. You have to come guest with us.

[01:43:30] [SPEAKER_07] I've never heard of this. I would love that.

[01:43:32] [SPEAKER_06] Oh, Robin, you must watch it. I think you'd really love it. The first, the first thing I did was when you mentioned it at the beginning, was write it down on my mental health nurse letter. Yeah, I think you're gonna do it.

[01:43:42] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah, you're gonna do it.

[01:43:43] [SPEAKER_06] I'm like, I need to watch that. It's so good.

[01:43:46] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. All right. That's our show.

[01:43:49] [SPEAKER_07] Thanks for listening. Don't get bit, Lee, Disney.