722: TWD S7E4 "Service" Rewatch

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmm. What counts be gone? Most of you weren't there. You didn't have to watch. You can look away now when someone else dies, or you can help solve this. We give them what they want, and we live in peace.

[00:00:37] Say we find the guns. How are we gonna get out of this, Rick? There is no way out of this. Let me put this to all of you as clearly as I can. I'm not in charge anymore. Negan is.

[00:01:32] Hey Zed Heads, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. Little pig, little pig, let me in. And I'm Alex. No! All right. Come on in. This is The Walking Dead Cast Episode 722. Take whatever you want. And this episode we're covering The Walking Dead Season 7, Episode 4, Service. Well, Alex, welcome back to the podcast very soon after you did several episodes of it. Glad to have you on for the main show. You know what?

[00:02:02] It is an honor, as always. It's always a pleasure. And the Phillies lost very early in the playoffs, so I have nothing else better to do. I might as well be on here. Might as well. Subject yourself to some... Some Neganism! Serious, yeah. Nothing like torture porn, folks. I wanted... We were gonna have Ben on and he's sick. He is. That's his excuse. Maybe he's just too cool for us, man. He's afraid. No, no.

[00:02:30] He apologized and we'll have him on some other time during the season, I'm sure. But I just really wanted to thank both of you guys together for doing such a great job on Dead City. So, thank you. Our pleasure, man. It was so much fun. It's so great to have the opportunity to be on the forefront of the conversation because it's a city... No one's really... It's a show not a lot of people are covering anymore. Mm-hmm.

[00:02:55] So, being able to be one of the few voices and dissect it and bring it to the folks, like, that was such an honor. Honor for us. Yeah, and especially with it being so good. Like, it's so great that it... Thank God! Yeah, turn the ship around. Last year, we were kind of pulling teeth for compliments. I mean, thank God for certain characters around. Like, Bruegel, man, he really carried a large portion of the interest factor in season two.

[00:03:21] But, no, season three, top to bottom, casting, execution, storyline, and setup. All fantastic. Fantastic. And I was glad before the first episode even aired that they brought Jimmy Simpson in, but he really exceeded my expectations. He was great. Me too. Because, yeah, the joy of Jimmy is he is so versatile. Whatever role you need him in, sure. But the weirder it is, the better of a performance you're going to get. I guess so, yeah.

[00:03:48] Yeah, it's strange because the first time I saw him was in Westworld. Do you see that? Oh, yeah, yeah. I was an always sunny guy. That was, I mean, that was my first Jimmy Simpson. I know, but see, I saw him in Westworld and he's just kind of a quiet, introverted, very normal guy. I gotcha. Yeah. A lot different. His unhinged is fantastic.

[00:04:16] Well, I saw him in Breakout Kings. So, Breakout Kings was like a TNT show or something, but it started with one of the guys from The Wire, so I always gave it a chance. And Jimmy Simpson was one of the characters. It was kind of like that TV show Scorpion where everyone just kind of has a genius ability to help with the law enforcement in that era. But yeah, I really liked Jimmy Simpson, man. He is a really, really good and fun actor. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:04:39] And I mean, if you're hearing us talk about this and you didn't watch Dead City and you're curious at all, I would absolutely recommend giving season three a chance. You don't even need, you don't even need to go back and watch one and two. You could just watch a YouTube recap, but season three was some good walking dead TV. And for me personally, the way, the only way I could appreciate it, which you heard me talk about on a recent podcast was to sort of forget about the history of the two characters.

[00:05:07] Cause I didn't like seeing them together, keeping that in mind. But if I just was like, this is a new show, then it was a good, it was a well done show. I can respect that. And, and again, I, with a lot of the things I've said about Negan Smith over the years on this podcast in the various forums, I'm really excited to have the conversation today, looking at him in a new way, because, um, man, I really hated that son of a bitch this week. Let me tell you everything he does.

[00:05:35] I am just like, God, you're the worst. Yeah. This is him. Like not quite at his worst. Cause that was a couple of episodes, but ago, but pretty damn close. Well, I could argue, but go ahead. Yeah. We'll argue that later. Yeah. We'll get into the argument. So before we get into, I do want to make a couple of announcements. Uh, you may have heard me mention this elsewhere, but Karen and I started podcasting on widow's Bay, the hit show widow's Bay. It's an Apple TV horror comedy headed up by Katie Dippold who wrote for parks and rec.

[00:06:04] It's funny and scary. And I love that. Uh, it's usually not the same time. Funny for a while then scary, but it's, uh, won 14 Emmys recently, which is the most any comedy has ever won. And in a single year and our coverage is available. Now the first episode, you can find that on my other podcast, wax episodic, where I also cover a bunch of other cool shows like silo lanterns. Welcome to dairy alien earth severance, pluribus and fallout.

[00:06:31] Or you can hear our widow's Bay coverage on its own separate show. Everything's fine. A widow's Bay podcast. And I'll have links in the show for those. It's really fun. Of course, Karen loves the show. She's the one who turned me onto it. So we just had a great time in our first episode talking and laughing about it. For feedback purposes, statistically, when, when should people be ready to submit those? What day of the week do you think?

[00:06:54] Uh, the first few were kind of a little bit all over the map, but then we're going to be settling into Wednesdays after that. Okay. But I would, um, definitely, if you aren't already, uh, join our podcast, go Facebook group and just look for posts. I'll put a post each week for comments for that show. Cause yeah, we will be doing one a week and I'm going to try to publish on, I think Fridays, but if you can get the comments in by Wednesday, that'd be good. Okay. Um, I am so excited. Thank you.

[00:07:24] Well, I want to participate in this episode because I truly think widow's Bay is one of the best freshest, um, concepts, executions, homage heavy shows I've seen in so long with standout performances by Steven root. Um, and, and oh my God, thank you.

[00:07:43] So Matthew Reese, I have decided I'm in love with because first off I heard his, uh, accent and anyone with a Scottish, Irish, Celtic accent of any kind, I'm going to fall ahead of your heels. I've never heard that. I didn't even know he wasn't. It's fantastic. But he was also in the beast in me, which was a limited anthology series that he won best drama actor for this year. And it was freaking phenomenal. It had Claire Danes in it as well. Um, it was a really, really good show.

[00:08:11] So yeah, I thoroughly I'm, I'm in, I can't wait to follow you guys' coverage. Cause I love. Yeah. It was really good. Karen was like, you gotta watch this. Yeah. All right. Let me check it out. Oh my God. She was right. It's great. It does the more and the comedy really well. Yeah. It really is mild. I mean, it can be, yeah, it's not like, yeah, but some people shy away from that. We're about to go into Friday the 13th and crystal Lake. That's that can be, uh, intense for people.

[00:08:37] I don't, I understand people who might want to skip that, but I recommend anyone listening to me and give widows by a chance. I think you're going to agree more. So speaking of crystal Lake, uh, we're going to be breaking for that. It's a Friday, the 13th prequel series, uh, premiering on Peacock on October 15th. They're releasing all eight episodes of season one that day. And so we're covering two at a time weekly, just to kind of get through it a little faster.

[00:09:06] But in prep for that, we're going to be talking about the first two Friday, the 13th movies on our next episode. That show stars. This is why I wanted to cover it. I I'm not like the biggest giant fan of Friday the 13th. It's iconic, you know, but, um, I know there's super fans out there, but I, Linda Cardellini. It was Linda Cardellini. Absolutely man. Yeah. But also it's produced by a 24 and they do some quality stuff.

[00:09:35] It's headed up by Brad Caleb Kane, who was one of the showrunners of welcome to dairy, which I thought was phenomenal. Um, and it just seems like they're putting a lot of, it's maybe like horror slash prestige TV. Uh, Caleb Kane had an interesting way of talking about it. He said, in many ways, it's a psychological thriller. It's a paranoid seventies thriller. It has all the DNA of a slasher without quite being a slasher.

[00:10:01] There are rivers of blood in the show. There are very, I think, ingenious kill sequences and deaths and murders, but it's all done in service of character and theme and place and time. So that sounds pretty good to me. That sounds fun. I like that. I have a good little Sunday appetite. My co-hosts for that are Jamie and Nathan, who I'll be excited to. I've never had a regular podcast with them before, but they're both huge horror fans and they've hosted and guested on various other podcast shows.

[00:10:31] And so, yeah, next week you'll hear our coverage of Friday the 13th parts one and two, and then we'll be getting into crystal lake after that. Nice. Um, before we get to our regular scheduled programming, Linda Cardinelli question for you. Um, are you going to continue with DTF St. Louis? I just watched the first episode of that last night and I wasn't totally hooked in, but enough people have told me to keep watching that. Yes, I will keep watching at least a couple more and see if I get hooked in.

[00:11:01] I liked it, but I was, I've got, there's so much to watch that, you know, there is so much to watch. I couldn't agree more. Um, I think the performances, especially by David Harbor and by Linda Cardinelli are other worldly in that show. And that, that alone is worth watching it the whole way through is those two performances. Bateman's. I like Jason Bateman too. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. He did great. Um, but Harbor and Cardinelli really elevate the entire story. Don't get my girl's name. I'm never going to get it right. Okay.

[00:11:30] I'm just a stupid Mick. I will never get Italian names, right? It's just, it's what I do. Um, but yeah, so I, I, if, if you're not feeling after three, go ahead and wash your hands of it. But I think by three, you'll be like, okay, I'm in. All right. All right. That's cool. Yeah. I mean, I'm into it. I mean, I, people said, oh, it goes crazy directions. So that does, that's always good. Okay. All that preamble out of the way. Let's get into it. Walking dead season seven, episode four service. Would you like to read the plot summary?

[00:11:58] I would love to plot summary as the grieving survivors struggled to come to terms with life under Negan's rule. Negan and the saviors arrive at Alexandria days ahead of schedule for their first offering and take most of Alexandria's furniture and medicine and all their firearms feeling powerless. Rick informs the survivors that he is no longer in charge and they must learn to live by Negan's terms. Rosita finds an empty cartridge case and brings it to Eugene, tasking him to craft a live usable cartridge for a gun. She found in the woods.

[00:12:29] The end. Dun, dun, dun. They mentioned the mattresses. They didn't. They didn't. I will say probably the biggest bummer episode. Like there have been sadder episodes. There have been, but just 58 minutes of pure, just getting your head beat over by depression and oppression. What an awful, awful. Oh, wow. From a guy who's just smirking and reveling in it the whole time.

[00:12:57] And that's what makes it so, so crazy. So like, all right, I don't know where I'm going, but damn, I never quite appreciate how much you're so right. Whenever Negan says I did what I had to do. No, you did what you thought you had to do. He loved every single second of it. This episode was nothing but him gleefully oppressing an entire group of people and taking so much pleasure in their pain.

[00:13:26] Like this was awful. Yeah. I mean, he, I'm trying to understand how, cause when Negan says that later on, I get the sense he believes it. Yes. And so maybe, I mean, just ignoring the fact that characters can be inconsistent and are written by different writers at different times, but maybe he thinks, you know, the only way

[00:13:55] to keep everything peaceful is to bring these people to heal. And he's sort of doing it like he's training an animal or something, you know, I have to break this animal. That's what this episode is all about. And he thinks the way to do that is just by humiliating them in a way where they have to not only accept it, but literally thank him for it. And he, I, he thinks that if they're thanking me for this shit, let me stick my dick down

[00:14:25] their throat and then thanking me for it. That means they're at my heel and they're not going to be a problem and everything will be peaceful. But man, that's, that's not how you didn't have to do that. It not only is just so utterly toxic of a way of handling things, but to your point, no, you didn't have to do 90% of what he did in this episode. Um, we're going to get into it when we get into the points, but like, my God, I, I watched

[00:14:53] this episode with a new set of eyes and I don't know, it's been a couple of years since I did a run through of the series. Maybe like since, Oh, I don't know a couple of Novembers ago, I haven't watched the show. So seeing this kind of mentality again, rewarded by society, um, really helped me appreciate just how awful, awful the cult of personality of the saviors and the cult of personality of me. Yeah. My God.

[00:15:18] There's, uh, this phenomenon where some people have photographic memories. They never forget anything. And those people have a really hard time keeping long-term relationships because it's hard to let go of, uh, grievances when you they're fresh in your mind at any moment. Right. Yeah. And I think that like Jenny and I, my wife have talked about it, like, damn, it's a good thing.

[00:15:48] We don't have photographic memories. If we did that, you know, that's really saved our marriage because over time you kind of forget, you kind of forget the sting of things and, and the circumstances around them. And I think that's the reason why I bring that up is because with Negan, I think if you just watch the series and then you get into seeing him be, uh, save Judas life later on and be, you know, remorseful about a lot of what he did and, um, just trying to be a hero.

[00:16:17] Most of the time, I think it's really easy to just forget what he was like in these episodes. Yes. Yeah. And I mean, any good heel turn is someone that starts off as such a big old bag of douche and, and it's like, where is that line for you? Where is that line of once someone crosses this, they're officially unforgivable. And if you're, if you're someone that doesn't believe that anyone is unforgivable, um, what

[00:16:44] does that level of, um, acceptance ownership and apologizing for your past actions? Do you need to see? Yeah. Again, to your point, Negan has never apologized for the brothel to everyone's points. You guys are so right. I, I admit I fall on the sword. Yes. Negan definitely did some hanky panky with his, uh, ladies in there again, watching this. Um, he did not do what he had to do.

[00:17:10] He did what he loved doing because he was a very, very small man that loved Lorde Doving over people. And he was wounded, but you know, everybody was wounded, but everyone has like, he and Rick are, you know, Abed evil Abed. They are two sides of the same coin. And like, how do you handle that trauma? And how do you leader? Are you a, are you a, a savior or are you a leader? Because Rick is a leader and Negan is a savior and saviors. Yeah.

[00:17:40] That ain't the way to go. Yeah. Yeah. I always think of how you handle trauma as, uh, or, you know, adversity. You can stay centered and deal with things from that place. You can shrink away from it, which we see a lot of people do. Like I would say, uh, Eugene, a lot of times, or you can posture and that's Spencer thing. Yeah. As Spencer.

[00:18:05] But, uh, as far as like, can you, you know, I, I love a good heel turn and the things you already mentioned, he, he didn't apologize for some things. And he has a few times tried to say that, oh, I did what I had to do. And he, even in the new series, I feel like there's some of that come through. So that's why it's hard for me to fully appreciate Negan, but you know, I, it's complicated. It is complicated, but I think, I think I've been a bit too, um, cockily proud of Negan.

[00:18:33] And just like, yeah, I'm team Negan because redemption is possible. But I, I really allowed myself to understand what he was doing this episode and just how awful that was. And like, Jesus, no wonder everyone hated him. So Ben thinks, do you know, do you have any? I don't, I don't. I'm going to find out. Ah, if only there were a way. Um, so I, as far as this episode goes, cause I really haven't said what I thought about it. I actually think it's a tough watch, but it's a great episode.

[00:19:03] And I watched it, uh, actually watched it three times. And, and you know, I always try to look at my two perspectives narratively and then real world. If I was in the situation with these people narratively, I thought it was good. I think it, yes, it was hard to watch. It's, it's like, they're putting us in, uh, Rick and Alexandria companies position. Yeah. It's like uncomfortable stuck under this asshole's thumb, really hard to see forced to watch hero. Rick broken.

[00:19:33] Yeah. Yeah. And, um, given what Rick's just been through with Negan kind of makes sense, but we don't want to see him that way. He he's just afraid of losing anyone else and he's in shock, but I was, it was uncomfortable, but I wasn't bored. I do think that this would get old fast and it does over the next couple of seasons. But, um, for this one episode, it like the walking dead never had anything quite like this before.

[00:20:03] And that's one reason why Negan made such a big splash, I think, cause he added this energy to the show that didn't have before. It felt like a home invasion movie, which I know some people just won't watch those. I don't think Lucy watches them and I don't like to watch a lot of them, but I just think, um, for this episode, it was, it was good. And I I've said this a million times, but if they'd kept this story to one season, I think the whole, the whole storyline would have come across better, you know, less would have been more.

[00:20:35] I, I couldn't agree more with you. I think a lot of that was, they wanted to flesh out the kingdom on the way to getting the story. So they had to just expand upon the saviors. Um, yeah, I, I love what you said because I always watch these episodes. At least twice before I record the first time, just to watch it as a fan, to get through it. Um, and then the second time to like plot out the plot points and be a little bit more critical. I knew to start taking notes.

[00:21:04] The second I turned it on because I couldn't watch this one more than once. I could not watch the absolute misery porn that this was more than one time. Because when I see this level of not service subjugation, when I see people being this unrelentingly rude in a society, like, like it just, it boils my blood so much. I couldn't get worked up and watch it a second time because it's, you're right. It's a great episode.

[00:21:32] I don't want to watch it more than once or twice. Like I love the movie. And there's a lot of TV like that where. Yes. Even season seven episode one, you know, people appreciate that it was a good episode, but they'll never watch it again. Absolutely. Yes. Just because something makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean it's bad TV in my opinion. Not everyone agrees with that, but yeah. I, and I think the Grove for me is a perfect example of that. Cause that episode makes me just so uncomfortable, but it's so beautifully executed. I, I always watch it.

[00:22:02] It's, it's so powerful. Yeah. And this is especially hard because it's just Rick in a really. Broken. Uninspiring. Yeah. Deflated. And, and everybody, other people want to fight and he's no, no, no, no, no. But like, you also understand it. You've seen the numbers. You understand the brutality, like of all of the bad guys they've come up against. This is the first one that actually had his head on straight.

[00:22:30] Like the governor maybe was the next closest, but it wasn't Gareth. It wasn't any other, you know, band of roving idiots that they've faced across the way. This is the biggest, baddest legitimate strategizer. He may not be that smart. I could argue he's not, but he's a really good strategizer. And yeah, I mean, he, he, he's the leader of a well organized group.

[00:22:56] And I feel like to be that you have to have some skill in at least delegating to the people who can do it. But we've also seen his lieutenants. I think Negan has to carry a lot of the brain power of that. That's true. Yeah. Between a rod and, and everyone. So. But that's narratively as far as real world goes, I mean, we've kind of gotten into it, but he's, I just think he's the worst kind of person, especially at this point in his development. He's sadistic. He delights in it.

[00:23:23] He's the kind of guy that would hold you down and fart right in your face while laughing, except it's way worse than that. Cause he'd kill you brutally in front of your devoted wife who loves you more than anything. And then try to fuck her. You know, that's the kind of guy he is. Negan Smith's the kind of guy that storms the Capitol and then runs for Senate. Like he is that guy. He is having a podcast moment right now with Shane Gillis and Joe Rogan coming on, talking about how, you know, he's just, he's so disenfranchised.

[00:23:49] He is that kind of asshole, arrogant testosterone filled toxic masculine man. Um, I saw someone on the podcast, a Facebook group to, to preface that today. Thank you, Jason, or you, Jim and Kirk for your coverage of lanterns and talking about toxic masculinity. And like, I think it's so important for people to talk about just how God awful this stuff is when we see it because it is happening today. Again, all over again. It's like, how the hell are we still here? How have we not evolved?

[00:24:17] We've de-evolved from where we were 10 years ago. What the hell? Yeah. And, and man, I know there's a lot of Negan fans out there. There may even be one or two still listening to this podcast. But when a guy like this has so many fans, I'm just like, dude, this is the kind of guy we need to get rid of in our society. Yes. It's, it's like when, when Joe from you has all these ladies that are fancy and he's like, guys, what the hell are you talking about? Like, he's awful. Don't. Right.

[00:25:12] Right. Because being a toxic masculine douchebag in certain circles is a badge of honor. Yeah. And it's like seeing it again after, for a brief hiccup, it wasn't something that was celebrated in society. And then seeing it again on screen. Like you really appreciate why everyone hated, aided this arc of the show when it happened in real time. Yep.

[00:25:36] And I don't, I don't want to dwell on this part too much, but I just want to throw it out there that if there's a heaven, I do wonder what Glenn is thinking, looking down on Maggie and Negan laughing together. And Maggie saying he's the closest thing she has to family.

[00:25:52] I think if I know Glenn, the Glenn that we have been led to know all these years, he's looking at what Negan has done since he bashed his brains in and has done for Herschel and like has tried. I think he's like, I get it. I don't love it. But like this dude will die for my wife and my child. So I guess it's okay. Yeah. But hopefully at least he's like, but maybe I can find another wife up here though.

[00:26:19] Cause I mean, something tells me that he and Lori always had a little bit of a spark and she doesn't mind. Right. That's a new one. There you go. Glenn and Beth. Ooh, now we're getting, now it's getting bad. No, it was always Maggie. I knew. All right. Let's get into that. Was that always yours? Oh, okay. For me, who do I think is the hottest on the walking dead? Not the hottest. Cause I don't want to. The one I'm most attracted to. Right. Right.

[00:26:48] Because of just personality, skill level style, et cetera. All of that jazz. I feel like, you know what? I don't have a ready answer for that. And I feel like I've thought about it before. I don't know if we've actually ever talked about it on the podcast. For me, it's all Rosita. Let me think about it. It's Rosita all day. Well, this episode in particular, she's fucking badass. And then when you see her as a mom come season nine, you're like, okay, like you're the shit, but like can hold her own. She's a great warrior, a great friend, a great strategist, a great get shit done piece.

[00:27:16] Rosita is one of the all time greatest. I've loved her since Twilight. I cannot argue with any of that. Yeah. All right. Let's get into it. What do you want to, what do you want to talk about first? All right. So I'm going to start off a little bit soft. I'm going to start with Spencer. My God, what a little shit heel. I, he's someone that I wanted to root for in the beginning, but he is such a little weenie and I understand his point of wanting to align with Negan.

[00:27:45] But how does he not understand that it's so much more fun for Negan to fuck with Rick than to just get Rick's absolute, you know, just, I don't know everything about Spencer pisses me off. And he thinks that Rick is the reason everyone in his family is dead, which I could argue Reg potentially, but Deanna's not his fault. His brother's not his fault. Like Spencer is such a little piece of shit and he's still stealing and hoarding supplies.

[00:28:12] I am just, I, for a handsome, a son of as, as hell, son of a bitch. He is just the worst. Yeah. I can't, I can't. I mean, my point on him is entitled Spencer is a douche bag and also may have a few points. And also may have a few. Yes. Okay. I mean, I can't, it's, he's, he, it's nuanced. Like the freak stealing supplies, even the guns, as Rick says, I can understand that.

[00:28:40] I did it myself, but the supplies, and I totally agree with Rick there. I mean, it's, it's a, it's a community. You need to care for each other. And him doing that is just beyond low. Yes. But also him questioning son of some of Rick's movements in the past, you know, couple of weeks. Fair. Perhaps. I mean the way, so man, now this rewatch keeps getting interrupted.

[00:29:06] So I don't have all the details fresh in my mind anymore, but, um, you know, just thinking about him, he's in this peaceful community. And then this guy shows up, starts waving his gun around. And it seems like, Oh wait, mom wants him to be our security. He seems a little like, uh, intense and then a little crazy. And then, um, now his family's all dead. And yeah, if you look at, uh, exactly what happened, just like you said, like Rick, like

[00:29:36] those zombies from the quarry would have probably killed them all. If not for Rick, we watched. Yeah. We watched that thing fall because of no influence from our characters. Our characters did nothing. They just happened to be there when it all went to shit. So like, it was going to go to shit no matter what. Thank God Rick was there and at least had a semblance of a plan at the time. Yeah. Yeah. And that, that's where Spencer doesn't give him credit he needs to get. Cause they may have all just been dead.

[00:30:06] If not for Rick. Oh, they were fine. They were not going to make it through that one. Yeah. But I, I, I can't remember if anything that Rick did had any bearing on the wolves. I don't, that's the part. No, no. Rick was definitely in a kill them all, kill them all state at that point. Um, Morgan, however, so you can make the, you know, because Rick is a friend of Morgan and Morgan let the wolves go, but that's getting too, that's getting too far. Yeah. I concur. Yeah.

[00:30:33] I mean, all things considered Aaron was the one that screwed up with the wolves. Yeah. That's what it was. Yeah. But so that, so that's not Rick's fault. And then, I mean, the thing is when Rick told a bunch of his people to kill a bunch of savers in their sleep without knowing enough about the situation, that was reckless. And then, you know, in this episode later, when Michonne's trying to convince Rick to fight, Rick says it's about numbers and Michonne's like, what about Hilltop? And he goes, they still have the numbers.

[00:31:00] So that's the reason he's giving for feeling like he can't fight. And I'm like, well, if only you had taken the time to do some reconnaissance, then maybe you would have found that out before you took that action. And it wouldn't have been quite as bad, you know, and that leads right into Spencer saying you should have made a deal with Negan and maybe they should have made a deal with Negan at least so they could in secret plan what they were really going to do. I don't know. I don't know what he should have done, but I just think, you know, you can't really know

[00:31:30] for sure what would have happened if he would have done something else. But when you do something like that, where you are going and killing people in their sleep and it doesn't work out, then it's like, ah, I don't think you should have done that. You know? Hindsight's 20, 20. We can all Monday morning quarterback. I think one thing I appreciate is up until this point, all of the times that they have come up against an organization, a community, et cetera, it's been a one V one battle.

[00:32:01] Now, though, we don't know what all is connected to the Savior. Sure, the hilltop brought us into this, but the kingdom is currently working with the saviors. Oceanside is working with the saviors. Rick's biggest problem is he didn't find out what other communities there were. He knew of Alexandria. He knew of Hilltop. He knew of the saviors, but he didn't ask any, like no one asked any other questions. You can't tell me Hilltop didn't know about the kingdom. We know Jesus knows about the kingdom. I think it's time for you to meet Ezekiel. Like, okay.

[00:32:31] So stepping into a larger world. Right. How do we not realize? And that's Gregory being a piece of shit, I'm sure. But like, that's where I think Rick's biggest mistake was. He did not understand the scope of what he walked into. He thought it was okay. This is a terminus. We're going to go to the savior outpost and kill them all. Kill them. No, it's still much bigger. And you know, hindsight is 20, 20, like you said, but if you do something like kill people in their sleep and it backfires, then it becomes hard to argue for it.

[00:33:01] You know, it does. And so I'm not saying Spencer is right or that he's the leader they need. But, um, and I mean, clearly not. This leads to him trying to make a deal with Negan behind Rick's back and then getting sliced. One of my favorite moments in walking dead history. Yeah. Conversely, but I do, I do feel for him, even though he is a weasel and a douche bag, his whole family's dead. And he thinks Rick should have just made a deal. And it does. It seems like that is what Ezekiel did made a deal.

[00:33:31] As far as we know, and the saviors haven't killed anyone at the kingdom as far as we know. So, you know, I'm not completely, I know, but like, it's so easy with these shows to be like, okay, if it's a character like Nicholas or Spencer that we don't respect and just fuck you, you're, you're totally bad. And I'm just like, eh, mostly bad, but I do feel for him. Yeah. And especially the PTSD he's gotta be going through again. Yeah. He went from so safe to so alone in like 14 days, max.

[00:34:00] Just the way that he dealt with it by stealing supplies shows you what he's made of though. Right? Yeah. I mean, clearly this is someone like the alcohol, especially like, all right, dude, I see that you, you don't have the ability to cope and maybe that's because he's been beautiful his entire life. I don't know. Um, but you know, he doesn't know how to handle the adversity and that's a shame. Yeah. He is. Well, I will say, he won't have to worry about it much longer. Amen to that brother. Amen to that.

[00:34:28] A hunting knife is coming on spaghetti night. Okay. I want to talk about Negan's humiliation. I want to talk about Negan's humiliation tour. Hmm. Oh boy. Go for it. Cause everything he does in this episode is to dominate and rub it in their faces. There's nothing they can do about it. Uh, a lot. He does a lot. He gets there early while people are trying to get ready for him just to catch him off guard. Uh, he's the, his entrance was actually fucking great. Right.

[00:34:58] It was silhouette. It's the iconic. Wasn't that also in the comic? Didn't he little pig in the comic as well? Like that, that was such a great, I have that in my notes, an iconic silhouette moment of little pig, little pig, little pig. Oh God. I love him. And, and right away he's like just signifying I'm the wolf and you guys are the sheep. I hated his zombie bashing soliloquy of like, I just saved you. The fuck you did. They could have done that just as easily as you did. Absolutely.

[00:35:27] You're just, I hated that moment. So I'm like you piece of shit. You are nothing that they are not. You are not protecting them from any more Zeds than they can. You are. Oh, that pissed me off. And that's important because what is this group's name? The saviors. And what is his rationale? Right now I did everything I had to do in order to save people. And this is exactly the kind of situation where I think he's not only gaslighting Rick, but gaslighting himself.

[00:35:54] He's like, yeah, see, I'm, I'm helping them. No, you're not like any one of these people. Even Eugene could have taken care of that. This, this version of Negan Smith needs such, such a come down. He needs to get his ass humbled in the worst way and it's coming, but it damn sure hasn't yet. Yeah. Uh, so then Negan hands Rick his bat, which was sort of similar in the RV when he was like the knives right there. It's just like, I, I fear you so little.

[00:36:24] You're so inconsequential to me that I'll even hand you the weapon and you can't do shit about it. Sucker. You're broken. I'm so much in control. I came into your house. I gave you my weapon and you're just going to carry that shit for me. Right. I'd like to see how brave he'd be if he hadn't come there with his, uh, all his entire horde of douchebaggers. Yes. Uh, he brings Daryl along just to taunt Rick.

[00:36:52] And just to humiliate Daryl, just to keep breaking him. Yes. I, I think you're right. Uh, he Rick had put aside his supplies, but Negan says, no, my guys are going to go into all your houses. You don't decide what I take. I do, which is very invasive and just dispiriting. I'm sure to all of them. Uh, let's see. He sees this. I actually laughed at this when he sees Deanna's video of Rick when he first got there saying, I killed a lot of people.

[00:37:22] And he's like, I would not have mess with that guy, but that's not you anymore. Is it holding the camera up to him and looks kind of pathetic through the, and like, he's right. The thing that is so often frustrating the most about Negan in this episode, when he is taunting is that he's right. Is that he does own them. And yeah, Rick is kind of his bitch and Rick isn't that crazy madman that bit a man's jugular out three weeks ago. Right? Like that's just, that's not who he is anymore.

[00:37:50] And it's so funny because when you think back to when they first got to Alexandria, that was one of the things that was talked about. Is this going to make us soft? Is this going to de harden us and make us not ready for the world that we're in? And like, now we got to that point where we're confronting that. But I don't think it's Alexandria that made Rick soft. I think it was losing Glenn and Abraham and being threatened with, you know, Negan almost made him chop parts of his son's body off. Yeah. Rick, I don't think Rick has ever gone soft.

[00:38:20] Rick is traumatized. Rick has PTSD right now from everything that's been done. It's happened in the last week and a half. I mean, I have a point about Rick, but the main point about Rick is he's consistent. His from day one, what he's cared about is protecting the people that he cares about. At first that included more people, but now it's just the people he loves and going and killing the people in the savior outpost was about that.

[00:38:49] And so is this capitulating to Negan because he's like, oh, that was the wrong move because I lost people that I cared about. So what I have to do is, uh, capitulate to Negan, submit to Negan. And, uh, the thing is the, where Rick's one of Rick's flaws fits in here is he just takes on the responsibility for everybody without checking with them. It's like that. No democracy here. Kind of a thing.

[00:39:18] Like, what if the people around you are okay, risking themselves to get out of the situation? He doesn't even consider that, you know, it's like, Nope, it's not going to happen. And how much of what's happening do you think is him truly accepting that he has defeated and how much of it is him buying his time? Cause it doesn't feel like he's buying his time. It truly feels like everyone else is asking him to, to, to fight. And he's like, no man, like their numbers are too big. We cannot do it. We, we lost, we are effed.

[00:39:47] I think there is, he's holding out the minute possibility that they could sometime in the future. Just the fact that he said he considered hiding guns out in the yard that we could get years later, but it's like, well, you considered it for years later and you didn't actually do it. But still just the fact that he's thinking along those lines makes me think that he, even now he might be thinking someday, maybe we can get out of this, but right now we just have to go with it. That's a great call. I guess.

[00:40:16] I mean, or not, or he's just like, Nope, this is our new reality now. And again, he may very well be just straight up in shock. Do we know how long it's been since the lineup? I, I, my sense is it's a few days. Cause I think Negan was supposed to come a week later and he came early. So it's sometime in there. Right? So I feel so bad for the original walking dead fans who had to watch this because the last time we were in Alexandria was last season.

[00:40:42] This is the first time in this season we've been in Alexandria and it was watching Alexandria get its ass handed to him over and over and over and over and over again. Y'all went from watching the beginning of the lineup to waiting seven months, watching the end of the lineup. Goodbye, Abraham and Glenn going to the kingdom with a WTF episode. Then the cell, which was more misery porn. And now we're back to here. Like, yeah. Unbelievable. This is the first time back in Alexandria.

[00:41:11] And this is the vision that we're getting. Holy crap. No wonder people were just like, I can't do this anymore. I can't. It's already going to be too much. Yeah. It's real tough. Just getting started. And I remember it win for a while. Yeah. I don't even, cause I, my memory is hazy on all on what's coming up next. But I remember back in the day when Karen and I were first covering this, I would say, well, it makes it all the sweeter when they finally do fight back.

[00:41:38] And I do believe that, but I still think it shouldn't have gone on this long. It takes them like eight or nine episodes when you factor in all of the kingdom stuff and everything. Yeah. My God, don't forget. We're going to get the frigging trash people soon. That's right. For that. We got the scavengers coming. So like, it's about to get wacky, wacky, but, um, I can totally bet. I better appreciate why everyone hates and hated and couldn't forgive Negan.

[00:42:04] When this is like, this is the, the, the tragedies put out in front. And this version of Negan storms, the castle. He's the worst. He's the worst. Mm-hmm. And the, I mean, I'm still going through all the, um, humiliating things he did. And the worst one is when, in my view, he's asking about Maggie. What happened to that sick girl? Okay. Yeah. She didn't make it damn. Or she, he's a widow, especially the ones that look like that.

[00:42:34] They're special. I love them right after their husbands go, they're just empty inside, but usually not for long. And then I was, he was going to ask her to come back with him. That's fucked. And like, dude, that is a level of creep that absolutely existed in a time. And probably I'm sure still does, but like the way the things he says, man, like, especially as a father of daughters, like, Oh God, what just the worst, just the worst unforgivable whether he means it or not. But I think he, exactly. I think he definitely does. Yeah.

[00:43:03] He definitely means it in his own messed up spike TV way. Yeah. And, and you know, what kills me is he, he he's, he's a little like, he says, you know, how could I have a shot guy that just bashed your husband's head in? You'd be surprised boy people. They, and I'm like, ah, you never had a shot, but you did get her back. She says, you're the only family that she has now. So, all right. I mean, here's the thing. Here's the thing.

[00:43:32] Dead city, Negan Smith and walking dead proper. Negan Smith have become two completely separate guys. It's time in a jail cell. I truly believe like, all right, I I'm a person. I don't know. Maybe I grew up in Catholic school, whatever. I believe with the right level of contrition, people can be redeemed. I think being in that kind of a jail cell, which is not an American gel. That is a, you live here for 10 straight years of never leaving this room ever. And like, that is going to break anybody.

[00:44:03] Um, so I do think by the time we get to dead city, it is a different person, but I'll agree with you. This version of Negan is a God awful human being. That is the absolute worst. If he knew, if he could see a crystal ball of the finale of dead city where she's like telling him his family, he'd be like, Oh yeah. But you know what? I agree with you to a degree. I mean, we've sort of talked around this already, but with the right level of contrition, I would

[00:44:31] argue he hasn't given the right level of contrition. And also I still think even if he had that, I wouldn't want to see, I, Lucy, I don't think agrees with me on this either, but Maggie, I think even if he's a total saint, I would just feel more comfortable with it. If she'd just be like, okay, fine. You're a better person now go live your life. But I don't know. I'm curious what other listeners think about that. Like you're closed minded Jason, you know, I could, I could accept that.

[00:45:01] No, I think what you're saying from a legitimate narrative perspective makes absolute perfect sense. But from a real world perspective of Lauren Cohen and Jeffrey Dean Morgan and the chemistry they have and the way that like, they really pop a lot of this season was how they popped on screen together of what made dead city successful. So while I agree with you, like, damn, man, if you got two stars in the room, how do you not cultivate that? Yeah, I get it.

[00:45:30] I just thinking about say me and my wife, you know, let's say, uh, someone did to me what Negan did to me, what he did to Glenn and then became a better person. Would I want Jenny hanging out with him? I don't think so. And if I, if he did that to her, if he bashed your head in right in front of me, laughed about it and then did everything else he's been doing and then turned into a better person, would I want to be his friend? No, I'd have that in my head.

[00:45:59] And I'd just be like, go live your life, man. You're lucky. Let me kill your ass. Let me tell you this though. That entire same scenario. But let's say 15 years after he bashed Jenny's heads in, he saves your son's life or he risks his life to save theirs. Yeah. At that point, are you willing to say like, all right, I can, I can find a space for you in my heart. Cause I do think as a parent, like if you do some shit to save my children after that, you

[00:46:26] can win your way back into my, and like his level of service now to Maggie and dead city. Like he is just after having, he is her. Yeah. That's a good point. I'll say, honestly, I don't know, but maybe that's where it gets weird. And like, maybe you're right. That's what I like about this story because it really makes you challenge what you want to believe. How can I say? Like, I don't know. Like, yeah. How could any of us say? Yeah. Um, but yeah. Yep. Good question. All right.

[00:46:56] Okay. Uh, he shoots a hole in the window for no reason. He, uh, forces Rick to thank him for not stealing their food. He, he decides he's going to take all their guns, which I think is a smart move, you know, as far as those things go. And I agree with Rosita. He was always going to, when she said to Spencer in the woods, like, dude, they took our guns cause they're taking all of our guns. Yeah. Glenn or Carl just gave him a reason to say it, but he was always going to relieve them of their guns. But he was like, Oh good.

[00:47:25] Now I get to blame it on the kid. I know. Like he's, he's really good at, at seizing on an opportunity, man, to make it worse than it already could have been. Um, he finds out, he's like, finds out they're short to handguns and blames Olivia and says basically they need to find them or the they'll kill her. And, um, what else? Oh shoot. I had another point about that here.

[00:47:52] When he says like, I don't like to kill women, but you know, I men all day long. And I know some Negan fans are like, see, he likes women. I'm like, what are you talking about? He just said, that's a very different. He's going to kill her. Right. That's a very different thing. That is a level of exceptionalism. That is not beneficial. Um, I will say, I will say Olivia, maybe not the best quartermaster in Alexandria.

[00:48:21] Like, okay, girl, can we get on top of this inventory? Like I need you to take this a little bit more seriously. It was Spencer. Yeah, he took it was, but first off didn't have Michonne's gun on the inventory list at all. Michonne was able to hide a sniper rifle up in the chimney. Second off was able to let those things of Spencer's, including the guns go and didn't have them accounted for. Like, come on, girl. I don't know. We're at war. Back that I don't know. I'm not going to blame her for these guys going in and taking. I do love Olivia though.

[00:48:51] And I do not appreciate all of the negative and nasty things that Negan said to her. And I did not find any of that funny. I did not find any of that enjoyable. Entertaining in any way. Yeah. Not even a little bit, man. Like that was man. Fucked up. I hated that shit from that time. Yeah. Agreed. Then when Rick gets Michonne to give Negan her rifle that he doesn't even know about, like you just said, and he's stoked.

[00:49:20] I don't know if I didn't quite get that nuance on my first watch, but that wasn't even in the registry. So they could have kept it hidden, but Rick gave it, took it from Michonne, convinced her to give it to him so he can hand it over to Negan. And then I don't know why I watched this thing three times because we pushed our recording date back and I wanted to be fresh. So he was like, I can't, I might as well. I'll watch it again at the high speed. But anyways, on third watch, I realized that I think Rick did that at least in part because

[00:49:49] he thought he might be able to trade it for getting Daryl back. Cause he said, you know, now that you see that we're obeying your rules, can I ask that we get Daryl back? And Negan said, no. It was first off a hell of a play. I agree with you a hundred percent. When I watched it this time, knowing about that, I was like, oh my God, I think this was him legitimately trying to barter and exchange at a place in a position with no power at all.

[00:50:16] He has no leverage other than if I'm willing to play ball with you to the extent that I'm going to give you an absolute banger of a deer as well as a sniper rifle. You didn't even know was on the table. Will you give me my dude back? And like, I can't fault him for the play, but that didn't backfire. Yeah. And it's just like, you see this in the real world and this maps over really well that with guys like this, when you appease them, it doesn't make them stop.

[00:50:45] They just want more. You give them an inch. They take a mile. You give them an inch. They take a mile. Yeah. He gets Rick to say, thank you. And then he goes, in case you haven't caught on, I just slid my dick down your throat and you thank me for it. So that's a perfect. And then I love that at the end, the camera lingered on the sign, Alexander safe zone, mercy for the last vengeance for the plunderers, which we first saw at the end of season six. I left it up, but it's like, Oh, Rick, you're not living up to the sign there. Amen to that brother. Amen to that.

[00:51:13] So I think I even skipped over a few, but it was just relentless. It was the entire episode. It was 58 minutes of Negan being an absolute piece of shit asshole. And all of his. That could have been the summary that you read at the beginning. Yeah, man. You got rapey Davey being rapey Davey with what's her face. Yeah. You got Dwight somehow being just, just dickhead of the year with regards to Rosita and Spencer and all of that. Rosita.

[00:51:42] You just want to punch him in the face. However, it is fun to say Rosita that way. I will agree. It is very fun to sing songingly say that, but yes, I agree with you. Um, yeah, it was just, it was, it was misery porn for 58 minutes. It was not enjoyable at all. Oh, all right. I loved it. It was a great episode. What else should we talk about? All right. So one of my points is my new unappreciation for Negan. And then for the most part, I feel like I have addressed that pretty thoroughly, but there are a few other

[00:52:12] things I want to talk about. Number one, was this the cartoonish over the top dickhead that you remembered as opposed to like the, the lineup version of Negan? Was it because I remember you saying when you first saw episode, uh, seven, one and the preceding one, how like, oh, you thought he was a lot more of an over the top cartoonish asshole. And he really wasn't, which I agree with you. He wasn't. But in this episode, he really was a cartoonish over the top. Yeah.

[00:52:39] So I wonder if like, this was what you were remembering more than the lineup itself. Maybe. Yeah. I think, I wonder if he's just more like this from here on out. And that's why that's the version of him. That's in my head. That'd be my guess. Um, the other piece about my unappreciation for Negan is Ben said on dead city. When I asked him like, okay, what is something you would like to see on the next season? Or like bring someone from the original show onto the new season. Who would it be?

[00:53:07] And one of the folks he mentioned was Kari Payton, Ezekiel. And I actually think the idea of Ezekiel for whatever reason coming to New York and finally, maybe we can spend season four challenging Negan's legitimate redemption. That'd be good. Let's challenge that. Let's spend an entire season breaking down his claim. And Sherry would be good too. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Oh my God. Sherry and Dwight could show up.

[00:53:31] And then Alice, like, again, if we could spend that truly investigating what his redemption has been. She can ride her horse in there and then it dies right when she gets there. There you go. Oh man. Sorry. Old wounds for the eight people that saw it. Um, but no, like I think that would be, that would be a really, really, really good story with Negan to tell. I think after watching this, Negan needs truly to get his comeuppance.

[00:53:57] And if JDM wants to believe that Negan's a hero, this is the only way to do it. We have to challenge him for an entire season of television on all of his terrible, selfish, self-indulging decisions over the last eight years of television that we've seen. And he needs to accept and own up to and apologize and move on from all of them. Yeah. So that, that I think is what can earn him his salvation, but you're right, man. He has not earned it. He has not. Yeah.

[00:54:25] I mean, personally, cause I want to feel like complete with that. There have been other characters that started off as villains and turned into good guys that I, Oh, I've got a list for us to go over later. Don't you worry. Cool. But, uh, I also, I know that at the end of season two, Jeffrey Dean Morgan was like, I, I'm not liking Negan. I might want to leave the show unless we can turn it around. So they got a new show runner. He's like, Negan supposed to be charming.

[00:54:54] And so then when they brought back some of Negan charm, part of that was making him sort of, uh, ambiguous at times, like whether he cared about people, you know, he's like, Oh, the thing to do with these two groups is to pit one against the other and let them kill each other or whatever it was. Right. And so I just think that the show people probably wouldn't want to spend a lot of time on him apologizing for coercing women. Neither would Jeffrey Dean Morgan. I just don't think he's ever going to want it to go there, you know? No, but I hear where you're coming from.

[00:55:22] Like I, I, that I was right behind you with the Carrie Payton thing for sure. Like that would be the, again, that's really, for me, the only way for him to start to truly earn that level of salvation. Um, but that brings me to another one of my points, which is Negan terrible freaking leader. When you really think about it. Okay. So people are a resource, but they can't really go pillage and plunder for you if they don't have medicine or weapons or beds to sleep in so that their backs don't hurt.

[00:55:51] Like what a terrible, terrible idea as a leader, like that is not a good way for things to work. Um, yeah, it's no wonder that the entire savior compound was kind of a shithole when they're just burning mattresses. I bet people could have used where they can get comfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Real stupid, real dumb leader. Like I'm so bad. He, yeah, he would, if you're a savior, I feel like you have access to more comfort. Like, uh, yes.

[00:56:20] That room that he was saying Daryl to Daryl, this could all be yours. And Dwight gets to bully people for a sandwich. So maybe Negan sets it up so that you're not, you're not comfortable, but if you do enough for him, then you get better food, better, whatever else. But I, I agree with you. Like he's just in his let's break them phase right now. Oh yeah. It was, it was God awful. God awful.

[00:56:50] Um, what other points do you have? Uh, I had a point about Rick being broken, which I feel like we already covered a lot of. I think the main reason why he's doing it is the same reason why he's done a lot of things is he just thinks this is what he has to do to protect the people that he cares about. So, but the one part I feel like we haven't talked about that I thought was really interesting is when he talks to Michelle about it and he tells her about Shane.

[00:57:19] And this was really interesting the way he said, I had this friend, I don't talk about him much. And you know, you don't know what they talk about. Uh, I, I was kind of surprised. Oh, he hasn't even told her about Shane. We know more than Michelle about this person. That's really interesting, you know? Um, and then he says, Laurie and Shane got together and they thought he was dead. And he goes, I know Judith isn't mine. I know it.

[00:57:45] And I just remember that being a big moment for me watching this show because we all, most fans thought that was probably true, but Rick not addressing it made him seem weaker to me or something. And I felt relieved hearing him say it because I felt it's more dignified if he faces it rather than to be unaware or in denial of it.

[00:58:14] He faces it and chooses to be her father figure. He doesn't put his head in the sand. He understands everything, but at the same time he is controlling the narrative. He is deciding, no, I'm going to do what I believe to be right. And that is be the father that you need for me to be. Yeah.

[00:58:34] And, and I, like I said, that was impactful for me before, but I don't know if I really understood the point of him telling that to Michonne, but I get it now. Well, maybe I must've known back then, but anyway, he said it's, he's saying it's about having to accept circumstances that you don't want to be true, but they are true. So you make the best of it. Like that whole grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change courage to change the things I can't and wisdom to know the difference.

[00:59:02] So with Luke, with Judith, he knows that she's not his biological daughter, but, but, um, he chose to see her as his daughter and be a father to her. And I think that's just beautiful. And then with Negan, he doesn't want to have to be underneath his thumb, but he thinks that he's too powerful to resist. And the only way to keep people cares about alive is to do what he wants. So, uh, that's why in his mind, those are the same things. But like you're saying, he's in control of the narrative of both.

[00:59:28] But the second one with Negan, there's other people involved in that narrative that might not want it, that to be the narrative, you know? Yes. Yes. You can tell in the town, they're like, wait, what are we going to do? We're just going to accept it. Come on. But I remember thinking at the time they could just hit the road, like sneak out at night and run away, but that wouldn't be very exciting. And it wouldn't be that inspiring to just run away from the bad guys.

[00:59:58] No. And honestly, what situation are they going to find quite like Alexandria? Something with solar panels and legitimate houses and all of the opportunity for farming. Like, yeah, like you, you can't abandon that. That's too good. Wait, do they have the windmill yet? Or did they make that later? Maybe not. I don't think that's until after the Savior War. Maybe built it, yeah. When Maggie gets the plans or something. Yeah. Yeah. Anything else? Yeah. So I want to talk about some classic heel turns that I love. Nice.

[01:00:26] So characters that I started off hating for one reason or another, but they won me over and won my heart. Some of them did not do things as bad as Negan did. Some of them did things you could argue are worse than. I'm just going to go through them in no particular order. No, I'm just kidding. Had some points. No. Number one, Jamie Lannister. Someone that I really hated at first, but throughout the course of Game of Thrones, I was like, you know what? This guy's got some heart. Yes. I agree. I agree.

[01:00:56] And at the end, he kind of turned back around and a lot of people hated that. And I actually thought it was. It was poetic as hell. Yeah. He was who we thought. Yeah. Like he is who he is. But I agree with you though. I was, I fucking hated him and then grew to just love watching him. Oh yeah. Benjamin Linus. Another one of those from lost. I really hated Ben at first. And by the end of the series, he had me in tears. I just loved his story so much. So much. Yes.

[01:01:26] Loki, of course, you know, cause I didn't know too much about Marvel and then I was watching it. And then they somehow made me love him. Uh, Zuko from Avatar, the last airbender. I really didn't like him season one. I know it's okay. No. And last but not least, Howard Hamlin from better. Oh yeah. I hated him in the beginning. And by the end of his time on the show, I was devastated to see him go. That's a good one. Yeah. That, that, not to get too much into it.

[01:01:51] Cause I don't know how many people watched it, but it was so brilliant making the guy who was the bad guy, the bad guy. Yes. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. I thought that was perfect at first. They, it was supposed to be Howard, but they saw the dynamic and they shifted the plot as the show went along. And it was so much richer and so much more bountiful than ever could have been if it was just Howard. And like, and then they made Howard someone really, really complicated. Um, yeah, I'm a huge Patrick Fabian fan.

[01:02:20] He actually graduated from the high school that my daughters are going to end up going to. So yeah. Big fan of Howard Hamlin. Yeah. But yes, those are some of my favorite classic heel turns. You can throw the hound on there. Um, yeah. So Negan is on that list with those guys. I don't know where he slots in, but like, I, I love a bad guy. He's sometimes what can I say? Yeah, that's good. I like that list. Okay. I want to talk about other people feeling more rebellious. Daryl is interesting.

[01:02:48] I, he came in, he just looked like shit and totally traumatized, stiff and quiet. And, um, Rick asked if he can stay and he says no. And then Negan goes, maybe Daryl complete his case and sway me Daryl. And then he's just quiet. And I thought, uh, what's going on? Maybe he's just in such bad shape from the torture and everything that he can't speak. And then Dwight tells him he can have his bike back. Just say the word. And Daryl's silent.

[01:03:18] And I'm like, what the hell? And then it dawned on me. I think what they're trying to do is get him to say, I'm Negan still. And that's why he's being quiet. So his silence actually is an act of rebellion still. Okay. I think. I, I read that the entire time as Negan probably told him, if you say one word, I will kill everyone in front of me. Right. And he is saying, Daryl, can you sway me? Just tell me you want to stay. Yeah.

[01:03:45] Knowing that the moment he says something, Negan is just going to open fire. So I'm, I'm guessing it's that level of manipulation. I mean, the last time we saw Daryl, he was, it was Negan trying to get him to say, I'm Negan. Yes, we are Negan. What's your name? Who are you? I'm Daryl. So I just feel like they're just still trying to get him to say it, but maybe that's something like that. Yeah. We don't know for sure, but I definitely changed my reading of that. I think he's still being rebellious. Yes.

[01:04:14] Uh, Rosita is just fixated on killing Negan the whole time. And I think this is the episode where I really started to love her as a character. She's been around a while up until now, but I think from here on out, she became one of my favorites. And I really appreciated her, the way she killed all those Zeds by maneuvering around that tree. It was just cool to watch. It showed her level of independent survival.

[01:04:42] And for so long, Rosita's story has been tied to Abraham and Abraham's reaction, Abraham's actions, Abraham's non-actions that now the show is saying to us, here's what Rosita is capable of without having Abraham around. And I think that was so important to show just how undeniably capable she was. And like Spencer could not go anywhere near her level of, of, uh, survivability in this time.

[01:05:11] And like, I think that was really important for her. That's a good point. Cause the one thing that the killing of. Clint and Abraham did was just to elevate Rosita and Maggie as characters. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. So what else? I mean, she just wants the one bullet, which is kind of bad-ass because you know what she wants to use that for. But also I remember feeling scared for her. Like she may be gone soon at this point. Yes. Yes. Um, it check off's bullet, man.

[01:05:38] That's the bullet that leads to the end of a rebellion. It crazy, crazy. That, that question leads to everything. Oh yeah, that's right. But I think the particular bullet that, um, Eugene makes for Rosita ends up in, uh, somebody else. It sure does. Sadly. It sure does. But that's the story for another day. That's right.

[01:06:01] Uh, Michonne is really uncomfortable with all this clearly, but, um, but is she says, but she, her man doesn't want to fight. She said, everything we have, we got from fighting. Um, and I think she was doing what Rick said, right? She was practicing with a rifle, but she was really bad at it, which I feel like real bad. I don't know if that's PTSD or can't. I remember that in the comic book, she was a bad shot and that was always the joke.

[01:06:31] That's why she had the sword. Oh, so I didn't know if it was, if that was like a callback to that or if it was just a PTSD. Yeah. Yeah. Real bad shot. Yeah. And then she, she agrees with Rick and then sees all the mattresses burning. And I think they had her see that because you know that she's struggling with it and that's just going to make her more angry. You know, she can't abide that. No. And like, she can't just like, he's saying essentially roll over and live with it. That's the only way to get by is to get by.

[01:07:00] She's like, nah, not if this is the games they're going to play on the backend. We needed those mattresses. Clearly they didn't. They took it just because no, I'm not, I'm not playing that. I'm not, I'm not laying down for that level of villainy. Right. And then in, I liked the town meeting in the church with Rick, just saying, you know, we're, we're not going to fight back. And I mean, like is a weird word here because it was shitty as hell, but it was interesting.

[01:07:27] And you could see that, um, Eric didn't like it. And Tobin, they just want to know what we're going to do about this. Which is ironic, but like, I get it. Rick came in saying like, I have all the answers. I'm going to protect you. I'm going to take care of this. If you follow my lead, everyone's going to be okay. Now he's saying, I ain't the one leading. I'm not going to lead. Like, I know I told you I got this, but I don't. And maybe that's part of where they're like, dude, come on.

[01:07:56] I got thought you had this. Yeah. He thought he did, but then he realized that things weren't what he thought. And so now given this new reality, he just doesn't think that he can. And I do, I think, I mean, like I said, my memory of what's coming up is spotty, but I would just think if you're in this place where you're like, yeah, they have too many numbers. I can't risk any more deaths, so we can't fight the way to get to fighting is to realize, okay, these, my people want to fight back and they're okay. Risking getting dying.

[01:08:27] And that's what happens in war. And we're at war. So we got to go to war, you know, something like that. All right. I, uh, any more points? Uh, I have, I don't know if they're points or notes. I've never understood the difference between those two when, when I'm listening to the show. So, um, first off, love me some spooky and freaky ass Gabriel. I couldn't agree the way that he just pops up with his Bayer respects.

[01:08:51] Uh, it is creepy as hell, but I love that they're showing his ability for duplicitousness and his ability to survive. And they're, they're showing like, all right, he's willing to literally get his hands dirty now for the cause. Like he is going to get all in and he understands that that thing that he originally railed against Rick and his crew for when they got to Alexandria, he's all in. He is one of them now. And I just, I really, I, you know, again, I'm a huge wire fan.

[01:09:21] So Seth Gilliam is one of my all time favorites. So I will always like, this is when I knew like, okay, cool. We're all allowed to love him now. So this is good. What is he? He's basically just lying that Maggie's dead to throw off the trail. Right. And if people don't remember, she's in Alexandria. I mean, uh, Hilltop trying to get help with the OBGYN that they have. Yeah.

[01:09:42] I mean, he is creepy and I, I feel like, uh, it took the writers and Seth Gilliam a while to find the version of Gabriel that we loved. Yes. And I don't think they're quite there yet, you know, because he turns into kind of a grumpy guy. There is a hot moment. Yes. Where, where he does get real grumpy. You're, you're so right. And I mean, he does lose half of his sight. Yeah.

[01:10:08] No, but I think that's when people loved him the most when he just stopped trying to be like, I'm a person of the church and was more like, you know, sometimes you got to kill people. Absolutely. Yes. I mean, he, he stormed the savior compound. Like Gabriel, God love him. God love him. Um, the only other thing I had was I love seeing a meme out in the wild, which this time was, well, please excuse the shit out of my goddamn French. Uh, it's just, it's always good to see a meme out in the wild. So thank you for that one, Negan.

[01:10:37] And that is the end of my points slash other stuff. Sweet. Uh, let's see. I had one just about the saviors and how shit rolls downhill. Cause well, that's not the right way to say it, but how they sort of take after or take cues from their leader. So when Negan scolded Arat for being rough with Olivia and she said, we don't do that or no, Negan says we don't do that unless they do something to deserve it.

[01:11:04] That's another case where I think some Negan fans are like, see, he has some kind of a code here, but. But that's a bullshit code because you define what deserving is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like, like if you punch me in the face, I'll smash your friend's head in with a bat. Like. Right. Or like, if you look at me funny, that means I get to smack you because you disrespect me. Right. Like we all decide, like he is deciding what deserves. So I agree with you. I thought that was a, a BS, uh, bait and switch attempt on his part.

[01:11:34] Or if you just exist, then I'm going to steal half your stuff. That's right. That's how you deserve it. Just by being alive. Yes. Um, so then Dwight, we already talked about it, but he's just a real smug prick in this whole episode. It seems like he's taken after Negan a little bit. Yes. And he's loving it. He's loving every second of this. And, and that is to your point that you've always said about the cult of personalities surrounding me, you know, like what his leadership style allows from his lieutenants and subjects.

[01:12:03] Like everyone is just at their worst. Everyone is just the absolute allowed to be the worst in this situation, in this episode. And Dwight's a perfect example of that. Like why, why, why are you being such a dick? You know exactly how much it sucks to be under Negan's thumb. You're under Negan's thumb. You just tried to get away from it. Like, why are you acting like, oh yeah, no, I'm totally team Negan, bro. Like, uh, yeah, I, that one, I, oh, it pisses me off.

[01:12:29] It's just, I think on some level it's a psychological dynamic in groups. There's just a personality of the group that filters down from the leader. And I even remember when I was working at Apple, some of the managers, it seemed like they were trying to be a mini Steve jobs. And you're like, dude, you're not Steve jobs. Stop it. You know, we're still going to have a dialogue about that in 15 conference room one. Uh, then, uh, this creepy guy fucking with Enid. Can I have those balloons or no? Say please little girl.

[01:12:59] Yeah. Uh, that was messed up. So yeah, his organization is just full of people who like to dominate and make people uncomfortable. Couldn't agree more. Uh, so the difference between notes as I see it and points are that the points are just larger points. And then whenever I write all my notes and I organize everything into a set of larger points, and then I have whatever's left over those things just go in the notes.

[01:13:28] That's beautiful. Then you know what? I like that. And now that I know that that's how I'm going to rework my stuff, but that's perfect. And I'm already good with both notes and points. So I had a few notes. Let's see. Uh, I thought it was interesting that Negan asked Rick, but didn't insist him to tell him who had those two guns. Agreed. I think. Cause he could have, he could have demanded. Yeah. That Rick give the person up, but maybe he had seen like, you know what?

[01:13:58] A guy like Rick, I've got the subjugation I need. Yeah. And just go get the person. Right. This gives him the illusion of a level of power that he's going to need to perform for me. Yeah. This is all about. Let him be the one to bring everyone else to my heel. Yes. Yeah. I like that. Uh, but shown, I guess she accidentally shot that deer and then it just gave her an alibi that she was hunting. Right. Correct.

[01:14:26] She, she pulled a reverse Otis in a way. Yeah. So, all right. Not to step on my only on the walking dead, but only on the walking dead is shooting a deer through the neck, a constellation prize of hunting Zeds. She was definitely doing target practice on that Zed and one of her terrible shots just so happened to, as you said, reverse Otis, kill a deer, which is a great call. Reverse Otis. That is, that is a top level, uh, season two callback. Nicely done. Cause that's exactly what happened.

[01:14:57] Awesome. Awesome. I'm surprised Negan didn't take Michonne's sword and even the way they filmed it, like she turned around in front of him and you could clearly see it. And you'd think he'd be like, oh yeah, give me that too. Absolutely. Absolutely. Also fun fact. I've been watching Friday night lights. Uh, Michonne's boyfriend. That was one of her pets is the quarterback. One of the quarterbacks in season one of Friday night lights. He played voodoo. So there you go. Cool. Synergy.

[01:15:23] I remember one of those dudes gave away some plot details and then he got fired. I don't think it was him though. No, it was the other guy. I think you're absolutely right. Uh, at some point I wondered what if they had just had that grenade launcher ready when Negan, um, showed up at the front gate by himself and just shot him in the face with it. Then what would have happened? Honestly, I feel like Alexandria would have won.

[01:15:51] I feel like the savers would, it truly is a, if you, if you take out the top person, I think the rest of them would scatter within weeks. Simon, I don't think Simon, no, I don't think he's got the ability to keep all of them together. Cause a rot's going to challenge him and all the other lieutenants are going to challenge Simon cause he's nothing. And like, it's just gonna, it's going to descend upon itself and eat itself. Should have tried it. Little pig, let me in. Boom. Absolutely. Absolutely. Just cult Python from behind the window right there. You're absolutely right. In a perfect world.

[01:16:21] Where's the doctor? I liked when Negan said, Oh, it was you guys that took out little Timmy and the Dick brigade. Oh my God. That was such a good callback. I thoroughly enjoyed that as well. That's his name for those guys. Uh, I guess that's it. Yep. You're only on the walking knows better than mine. I just said only on the walking dead would a protection racket, including killing one zombie. You know what? That's fair. And again, like they could have done that in their sleep as well. So Negan settle down. Yeah.

[01:16:51] Come on, dude.

[01:16:53] Threat to untold numbers of citizens.

[01:17:50] A people he kills get up and tip. Are they slow moving chief? Yeah, they're dead. They're all messed up. All right. Just one quick thing. A few new cast members have been announced for the last of us season three. Ooh, Laura Bailey, who voiced Abby in the game is playing Elizabeth. One of the leaders of the Sarah fights. Okay. I'm glad to see her in, in the show.

[01:18:20] Um, the woman who voiced Ellie. Damn. I can't remember. I can't think of her name. Ashley Johnson. Yeah. Played Ellie's mom. Which was an awesome. Awesome. Was that the, that was either the season finale or the penultimate episode, but yeah, that was awesome. Yeah. That was so good. So I'm glad to see Laura Bailey. She actually played one of the nurses, uh, when that's right. But now she'll have a bigger character to play. That's awesome.

[01:18:48] And Ian Alexander who played Lev in the game and John Goodman will play Joey and Paco, a quote friendly duo who call themselves the heroes of the highway. I like it. That's pretty cool. I'm excited. I'm excited. I, there are some shows, man. The one nice thing about dead city, I guess, is that we're getting them every year. Whereas some of these shows in the two hour breaks are just such a pain in the ass. Yeah, I know. I know this pluribus might be 2028. Of course it will be.

[01:19:18] Of course it will be. If we're lucky. Yeah. If we're lucky. Uh, previously announced cast members have been, uh, Jason Ritter, Patrick Wilson, Clea Duvall and Jorge Lindenborg Jr. So it's got a good cast. I think this might be the final season. The third season might be the final season. So hopefully. That would make sense. That makes sense. Um, and we'll see if Jason Ritter has a bigger part in this. Cause I'm like, what, why are you here? Uh, we'll see. All right.

[01:19:47] Let's move on to listen, bones, groans, and grunts. Coming in from Rachel Teal Edwards. Hated every minute of it. An extra long episode of basically a Negan one man show. Nope. Not entertaining. Not fun. It's funny. Honestly, kind of boring. I had a hard time paying full attention. Pretty sure we all understood the point after like 10 minutes, but they really beat us over the head with it for a full 55. Sorry.

[01:20:17] Poor trace of words. And on top of that, we get Rick handing over a gun that Negan knew nothing about. That was the oh shit moment. But I'll never forget the pilot mattresses burning at the very end to take them from everyone. Just because you can, just as a way to absolutely crush any morale they had left speaks volumes about who Negan is more than the threats of violence. Even it's sick and just terrible leadership strategy. Oh yeah. Spencer is really setting himself up for no one to care at all when he's gutted in a few weeks. He's such a brat. All right.

[01:20:47] They won't all be this painful going forward. Glad this one is behind us. Rachel, you clearly you had an inside track to what we were going to talk about this entire episode because you hit every single point. Yeah. And I, even though I argued that narratively it was good. I don't blame you for not agreeing with me. Amen. I get it. Here's a call from Renee. Hi Alex. Hi Lucy. Hi Jason and Ben.

[01:21:15] Listen, the disrespect Negan shows Rick and everybody in Alexandria is just a shame to me. It is mind boggling. You cannot subjugate people simply because you have the power to do it. You cannot take their food, take their supplies, their labor and their freedom. Then call yourself a freaking leader. That is dictatorship. And right now I see Negan as a dictator. I don't see the redemption in him at all.

[01:21:43] Because he enjoys having power over people. And that little eeny, meeny, miny, moe routine is not cute. That was not cute to me. That rhyme has a documented racist history including versions that use the N word. So when Negan uses it while deciding who is going to suffer or die, I was not laughing. That was not funny. There is historical weight behind those words that are not cute.

[01:22:10] Then he takes Alexandria's mattresses knowing children live there and burns them just because he can. That tells him everything about Negan. He's a dictator. And then when he told Rick, I just stuck my D down your throat. It's like sir, sit your disgusting, puny, narrow, scrawny self down somewhere. And the difference between Rick and Negan is so clear. Rick is humbling himself for the greater good of his people.

[01:22:40] Negan is demanding that everybody else humble themselves for him. He thinks that's cute. He feels like he's emasculating Rick. Never. And I love, I'm sorry, I love Rick's vulnerability with Michonne. Him admitting what Judith means to him and why he chooses to believe she is his daughter shows me that Rick can put his own pain aside to protect someone else. And that is leadership to me.

[01:23:09] And like I said, I feel Negan is jealous and he's obsessed with Rick because people choose to follow Rick. Negan demands obedience. And it's so sad. Now, Dwight and Sherry, Alex and Ben, I know y'all saw that situation differently about the harem. But after last week's episode, to me, it was one plus one and it equals two. I don't see how anyone can rewrite what was shown. To me, it was clear Negan was sleeping with those women.

[01:23:37] And regardless, Sherry's autonomy belongs to Sherry. It doesn't belong to Dwight because he's a husband and the damn show doesn't belong to Negan. You don't get to tell a woman to sleep with me so your husband can live and call that she was freely given consent. No, she was not. And that is why Negan gets under my skin. The show is fictional, but the themes of domination, forced labor, exploitation, and taking away people's autonomy are real.

[01:24:06] So no, I don't like Negan. I cannot forgive his behavior at all. And it's like Michonne, please help your man get his mind right because Rick needs to remember exactly who he think he is. Negan should have been dead to me. Alrighty, peace and love. Bye. Well said. I have no counterpoints. I'll be honest with you, Renee.

[01:24:30] Again, I saw this episode with a whole new set of eyes and in a climate and at a time when this type of behavior is so prevalent and it just, I hate it. I hate it so much. So no, Negan is the worst. I agree. And another thing you said caught my attention, which was hi, Lucy, which made me realize that I didn't even bother to explain why Lucy's not here at the top of the podcast.

[01:24:57] I thought I said it last time, but she's, I'm just so lucky that Lucy can do as much as she can because she's a busy person. She has a full-time job and she's part of this improv group that's actually catching on a bit. So sweet. Yeah. So she's got shows and things like that. So we work as best as we can to get her scheduled in, but sometimes it just doesn't work out and we plan it all out ahead of time.

[01:25:24] So we already did know that she wasn't going to be able to do this one then, which is why I had asked Alex and Ben to step in for her. But she'll be back when we get back to the rewatch later. I know when we're coming back in mid November, she's got some stuff going on then too. So she may not be on every episode, but we'll take what we can get. Honestly, guys, Lucy just hates me. And that's why she has said from the beginning, she'll never be on an episode that I am on. She listened to every one of your episodes. Did you know that? No, she had, I did. I listened. I listened.

[01:25:54] And I loved her feedback. I loved her shouting out that I shouted out her husband. I thought that was, that was right. She loved that. Yeah. I thought that was great. So we love Lucy. Lucy, one of these days I will be on an episode that you are on. It will happen. Hopefully it's Ezekiel heavy. That just sounds fun. Yeah. All right. We'll make that happen. All right. Rinaldi Kaleek says hot diggity dog. This episode is so average. It should have been combined with the cell episode. Little pig, little pig. Let me rank this episode. One Oh nine.

[01:26:24] And my walking dead rankings between one 10, the Aaron and Gabriel season 10 episode. One more. And one Oh eight season four episode two isolation. I'm going to make one hell of an impression by saying there are entertaining Negan moments, like the aforementioned introduction for this episode. When he can first enter Alexandria, which I am jokingly parody. Then there's really awkward moments that Ben's lawyers really need to explain. Like with Enid and the creepy savior guy, David. Yes, David is in the comics, but yikes.

[01:26:55] Anyway, I wanted to pitch a better ending to this episode and hear your thoughts. Rosita's up late at night and Spencer wakes up confused. Why are you up so late? Rosita lies extra cheerfully and says, just drawing up a map with routes we haven't used in a while. So we can find more stuff when we go on a supply run. That way, when they come back, we have extra stuff ready for them. Oh, Spencer says blankly, still tired, yawning. He says that's smart, beautiful and smart, but come back to sleep. It's late.

[01:27:25] Sure. Rosita says in five minutes. Wait, are they together? Yes. Spencer and Rosita. Yeah. They're together. Oh, I didn't even get that. I thought they were just hanging out. No. All right. So I know at some point they're together. Yeah. Okay. Well, maybe they are. Or maybe we know that they are now. Okay. It doesn't matter if we're spoiling something later on, but. Yeah. Either way. Okay. I just didn't even dawn. I thought they were just, you know, on a supply run together. Okay. Anyways, I'm like, wow. Rinaldi has them in bed.

[01:27:55] Is that just part of his fan fiction? It's coming. Then, uh, so, but coming back to sleep, it's late. Sure. Rosita says in five minutes, then the camera zooms upward from the desk. Rosita is sitting at, and it's a map of Alexandria. Dramatic music starts playing as Rosita draws a figure of Negan standing in direct line, and sight of the guard tower. Rosita is planning to assassinate Negan, but taking it slow as opposed to the piss poor botched rush job she did trying to kill Negan in the actual show.

[01:28:22] I think that's a better ending than Michonne staring defeated and depressed at the mattresses the saviors burned. Anyway, thank you, Jason, Lucy, and special guests, Ben and Alex on another enjoyable Walking Dead rewatch episode. Looking forward to Crystal Lake. I have faith my schedule will allow me to follow along in real time to the podcast with this show. Nice. I liked Rosita asking Eugene to make her one bullet.

[01:28:48] And I also think it was a good idea to end with Michonne being pissed about the mattresses because we're not at the point in the story where we're supposed to be feeling good. Correct. And we couldn't afford to end the episode with Rick being pissed off, but we needed someone to be pissed off at the end of this episode. That's right. It couldn't be just Rosita. So with Michonne being pissed off, and then we are pissed off seeing the mattresses because of everything that Renee said, that everyone said.

[01:29:17] The mattresses is such a big FU moment to the society, to all of them. That's such an unforgivable piece of it. It really is. And narratively, it's kind of delicious in my opinion. It's brilliant. Fuck you guys. You took their mattresses. Well, I hope you're happy sleeping on their mattresses. And then, oh, you're not even going to sleep on them. Jesus Christ. I remember, yes. One reaction to that is, style points, man.

[01:29:46] That is a good call. That is a great way to break a society, steal their mattresses, and then just burn them. And then to have Michonne see them. And really, Negan trying to break people by just being a total bastard and humiliating them. Yes. I mean, there's a danger that that will just make them matter, which it absolutely does. And you have to worry that at some point, you're going to bully someone that's bigger than you.

[01:30:16] You don't realize it. Yeah. But someone that's fiercer than you, stronger than you, a better fighter than you. Eventually, you are going to meet a bigger fish that is going to take you out. Yeah. Eventually, it's going to come back on you. And on a totally unrelated note, everybody make sure you're registered to vote and get out there and vote. Absolutely, yes. There's not a lot of time left, so make that time count. Vote.org. Okay. Love it. One more. Here's Steve Brown. Hello, Walking Dead cast. I'm Jason and Lucy.

[01:30:44] This is Steve, and I just finished watching The Cell. And so now I'm about to start, what is it? Episode, season seven, Walking Dead, season seven, episode four, service. Oh, and we're checking back in with our Alexandria people. We got Rick and Michonne in bed together. When did Michonne get her a sword back? Didn't they take it? Didn't the saviors take it, right? I don't know. Okay, maybe they gave it back to her when Rick got his hatchet back. Oh, and she has a hidden sniper rifle. I don't remember. Caught up on the podcast yet, so.

[01:31:13] How many days have been since the lineup? Oh, and it looks like the saviors are here. Like three or four or five. Despite Rosita and I don't remember which one that is. Spencer? I can't remember this guy's name. Spencer. Oh, he just said service. Title of the episode, mic drop. Again, service. Title of the episode, mic drop. Oh, and then insult to injury, he gives Rick Lucille to hold. And this is just a cold open. I'm going to try not to go long. Just notice, Negan has one glove on his right hand and no glove on his left hand. Amen. Who does he think he is? Michael Jackson?

[01:31:42] Why does Dwight want Daryl's bike? I thought he already had Daryl's motorcycle. And all this is taking. Oh, a few. When Denise got killed, like Denise and who was it? Daryl. Yeah. And somebody were out. Rosita, I guess. They were like on a supply run to get meds or something. And they came across Dwight's people and Dwight killed Denise. And then there was firefights.

[01:32:10] And Daryl's had left his bike there. No, that's not right. Then Daryl went back to try to find Dwight. He took off on his own, on his motorcycle. And that's how they got captured. He left his bike in the same spot in order to go into the woods and track him. And then they got captured. So that's where his bike was. Yeah. That was like the penultimate episode of last season. Forgot to mention that. Yeah.

[01:32:39] Oh, and Negan's seeing Rick's introduction video to Alexandria. Oh, and now Negan just called Maggie the widow or widow. Gabriel just was sneaking up on Negan with his creepy ass. Oh, and they're showing him the cemetery and making him think that Maggie is dead. Oh, a gunshot. Where did that come from? Oh, Carl with the pistol. Oh, how many guns does Alexandria have?

[01:33:08] And where's Rick's python? His gun. Okay, don't know where your mind went on that one. Oh, well, that's nice of you, Negan. Let them keep all their food. Oh, the caveat. To the best of my knowledge, all the guns are in there. Oh, so they did know where Daryl's bike is. And how do they get back to Alexandria? Okay, I remember this now. Now the casing, he just fired. Drive it. I don't even want to give him this. Oh, life and death. And they cut to a non-existent commercial. Now we're back and Rick's got everybody gathered in the church.

[01:33:35] Meanwhile, back with Rosita and Spencer Austin, whatever his name is. Oh, she finds a nine millimeter. This is important for the future. Whoa, Gabriel calling Rick your friend. It might be a little bit of a stretch there. Okay, there is Spencer who's out there with Rosita. Oh, so there they are in, is this Rick's house? So did Carl hide them? Oh, and now Rosita and Spencer return with Dwight Daryl's motorcycle. Oh, and I think Negan just saw Michonne. Oh, and Rick has to give the rifle and the deer up.

[01:34:04] Oh, I remember watching this for the first time when Rick says thank you and Negan gives his crude response. All right, on to next week. Nice. Classic Stevie. All right, that be our show, episode 722. Thanks so much, everybody, for listening, as always. And Alex, thanks for coming on. Good to have you. My pleasure.

[01:34:31] Anytime you folks want me on when Lucy's not here, I'm here to do it. Do you have anything else you want to promote or anything? Sure. Folks, if you want to listen to my podcast, we typically follow the Philadelphia Phillies and talk about life. But there's no Phillies to talk about anymore, so a whole lot of life coming your way. We like to do some top five lists. We recently recapped all the Twilight movies as well as Pitch Perfect. We might do Pitch Perfect 2 this offseason. So keep yourself in tune.

[01:34:59] We are the Quit Chasing Show, a little cheeky, little reverent, always unqualified. Check us out wherever podcasts are found. That's quite an eclectic bunch of different topics. Just a whole lot of everything, baby. Whatever you're interested in. Whatever the hell we're interested in, man, we're going to spend some time on it. It's delightful. Right on. I'll put a link in the show notes if people go check that out.

[01:35:24] Next episode on this podcast, Friday the 13th, parts 1 and 2, which are pretty fucked up. If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com. And while you're there, you will also find links to our new Widow's Bay podcast, which, as I mentioned at the top, is on Wax Episodic or its own feed, Everything's Fine, a Widow's Bay podcast with me and Karen having a good time.

[01:35:54] It's good to have you guys back. Thanks. You know, I should also mention Bake Off is back on. And if anybody hasn't given that show a chance, Netflix, it will cheer you up. It's great. And we have Baketastica with Jamie, Greg, and Wendy covering that show. Love it. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. Don't get bit, Roxanne Wicks. Thanks for listening.