723: Friday the 13th Parts 1 & 2

[00:00:16] 4, The Walking Dead Cast, Podcastica

[00:00:47] 4, The Walking Dead Cast, Podcastica

[00:02:00] 4, The Walking Dead Cast, Podcastica

[00:02:52] 4, The Walking Dead Cast, Podcastica

[00:02:55] 4, The Walking Dead Cast, Podcastica

[00:03:24] to that, but there's something about they can use things from the universe, but not certain things? I don't know. Or maybe they've got it all squared away now. I do have notes about this. Tell me now, if it's okay. Yeah, we can go into that now. Since we're talking about these movies in the lead-up to Crystal Lake, I thought it would be good to take some notes on things like why it's been so long since we've had a Friday the 13th movie. The last one was the

[00:03:55] reboot in 2009. So, here's kind of how the rights are divvied out as I have found. The writer, Victor Miller, of this first Friday the 13th movie, who actually passed away within the past couple months, owned the rights to his screenplay. So, that's the story of the original film, the concept of young Jason and the lake as it existed in 1980.

[00:04:25] On the other side, producer and director Sean S. Cunningham had the rights to the franchise overall and sequel development elements like Adult Jason. A third element to this is Paramount Pictures owns the Friday the 13th name, which explains why when New Line Cinema started making movies, they had names like Jason X or Jason Goes to Hell for their movies. They got rid of the

[00:04:55] Friday the 13th name for those. And as far as I know, or as far as I can tell, H24, who's doing Crystal Lake, has worked their magic and found a way to secure some rights from all these different parties to secure at least a TV deal for this season. And as far as what they've got, what they don't got, I guess we'll see as the show comes out. Yeah. Because, I mean, we're covering

[00:05:25] the first two movies because the showrunner of Crystal Lake, Brad Caleb Cade, has, he's a long-time fan of the whole series and he has talked about drawing from the larger Friday the 13th mythology with Crystal Lake. I've heard rumors that, you know, it might be a little bit more expansive than we thought. In fact, the idea from the start when Brian Fuller used to be the showrunner

[00:05:53] was to visit different areas of, I mean, eras of mythology. But, he specifically said that Crystal Lake at least season one draws heavily from the original movie and they're returning to some of the New Jersey filming locations and recreating familiar moments and things like that. And Linda Cardellini, who plays Pamela Voorhees, said she went back and watched the first two. Well, I think she watched them all,

[00:06:22] but she paid close attention to the first two and Betsy Palmer's performance as Pamela Voorhees because that's the character she's going to play. So, that's why we're looking at these two. But, you know, I tend to, I don't watch a lot of trailers and stuff like that, but I just get the sense that it could expand into other areas. And so, hopefully you're right that they figured out, like you said, they did their magic and figured out a way to get whatever rights they need.

[00:06:52] But just hearing that whole story makes me squirm, like, oh my god, I hate when rights are tied up like that. It's like the Incredible Hulk, like they can't make a Hulk movie for some reason, but they can stick him in a Thor movie because of some issue with the rights, you know? Yeah. It's so cool that Sony and Marvel figured out a way that Spider-Man could be in the MCU even though Sony owns the film rights. Yeah, there was also with the Jason stuff, part of it was the streaming rights because digital media

[00:07:22] wasn't something when they wrote up the original contracts. And there's a lot of stuff that's gotten hung up in that and people are like, no, it's mine, no, it's mine. Yeah, I guess we'll see. We'll have to try to decipher. Oh, he's wearing a lacrosse mask. They couldn't get the rights. I was at a con where there were three Jasons and Sean S. Cunningham. And somebody asked, like,

[00:07:52] how did Jason get his mask? And Sean was like, you want to know how? Because we, the movie Elephant Man came out and we thought that looked too much like sackhead Jason. So we wanted something else, but we were in production, like we were on filming location and our, one of our lead, our head camera guys was like, he's like, I play hockey and I got a hockey mask in my trunk. You want to use that? Sounds good. And that's how we ended up with a hockey mask Jason was because they freaked out

[00:08:21] about another movie. But it was so funny because like all the other, like, none of the other guys, like everybody on stage was like, oh, that's how? Like nobody else who was filming knew how it happened. I mean, just looking into this, all this stuff a little bit over the last few days because we're getting into it, it feels like it was very, what's the word that they use? Just kind of ad hoc, you know, improvisational, like actors would show up and scripts weren't

[00:08:51] fully written yet. So they're like, just improvise a couple of lines here. I guess when in part two, when Ginny, is that the, is on, no, or Alice. Alice is there. Alice is part one. Yeah, but she's at the beginning of part two, right? Yeah. When she's on the phone with her mother, I guess she just had to make that up because they didn't have lines written, stuff like that, you know? And yeah, and because it was in New York, New Jersey, it's all brought, it's more Broadway actors

[00:09:20] than TV film actors. That's cool. Like most of their history was like Broadway stuff. All right. Well, let's talk about speaking of history, what our history is with these movies. Nathan, you want to go first? Yeah. You know, as far back as I can remember, if I think back to channels like TVS or USA, they would have these up all night marathons and they would play all these Friday the 13th movies back to back.

[00:09:50] What can you, if you don't mind, if you do, it's totally fine. But just for reference, to give us an idea, tell us what decade you were born in. Oh, I was born in 1990. Okay. Got it. 10 years after this movie came out. Yeah. By the time I was born, there was like six or seven or eight of these movies have already been made. So, there was never a time before Friday the 13th for me. It was just always in the zeitgeist and

[00:10:20] from a young age, it was just, you know, scary and captivating and you see things that you hope that you never see in your real life. and as, as I get older, I kind of appreciate, you know, the escapism of horror movies and it kind of opens a gateway to the psychology of wondering like why Jason does what he does and Mrs. Voorhees and it's just interesting to think about and

[00:10:49] brings a lot of discussion like this podcast. Was like that the first horror thing you're into or you're already a horror fan? The first, I would say my earliest, some of my earliest horror movie experiences, I don't know if everybody would consider The Crow a horror movie. Some people probably say it's an action thriller. Yeah. That was one of my early favorites. Scream was huge

[00:11:19] for me. I liked that it was partly self-aware comedy. So if you're someone who's scared or young, watching movies, that one's a good gateway to kind of laugh along with being scared. Yeah. I was thinking about kind of jumping around a little bit, but you know, of course, Scream came after this and was very much influenced by this along with other similar slasher movies, but it was more like you said, self-aware,

[00:11:49] meta, wry, almost parody to an extent, but not. But I was thinking how Scream is kind of a murder mystery or maybe more accurately a mass murder mystery because you don't know who's behind the mask and then you find out at the end. And the first Friday the 13th felt like that to me watching it now, even though once you find out who's behind the mask, you realize, oh, they never gave us the pieces to put together

[00:12:18] until the last few minutes of the movie. We didn't even hear the name Jason, you know, so it's sort of not your typical murder mystery where maybe you could figure it out ahead of time. But still, I think that's one thing that Scream actually took from the first Friday the 13th, the idea that we're going to have this mystery murderer and then you'll find out. Because I think I'm pretty sure when audiences watched Friday the 13th for the first time, they were wondering if it was Crazy Ralph or, you know,

[00:12:48] suspecting the other characters in the movie that you were seeing around on the periphery and stuff like that. Yeah, part one definitely has, I mean, for many reasons, definitely has a different vibe than the rest of the series. Yeah. And you can't recreate part one. Yeah. And still have a series like this. I mean, it's one of the things I find really interesting about Friday the 13th, everybody thinks about the hockey mask and that didn't even come until part three and I don't even know

[00:13:17] if casual fans realize that and that this movie series that became such a big cultural thing never really found itself until a couple movies in, you know. The first movie doesn't even really feel like the other movies. I mean, in some ways it does, but it's not the same. No, it's a very different and that's, I mean, going back to Scream, that's why one of the first things is the quiz in Scream. It's like, who's the killer on Friday the 13th?

[00:13:47] You can't say Jason, you have to say Jason's mom. Mm-hmm. Right. That's like one of those like true horror fan things. Right. But I remember as a kid seeing this, it came out in 1982 and I was, no, it came out in 1980 but it was on cable in 82 and I was 11 years old and I watched it probably with my mom, you know, curled up next to her through my fingers

[00:14:13] and being so tripped out that it ended up being the mother at the end and then I also remember seeing her head in the refrigerator. So when I was a kid, I watched, watched scary movies on cable, Phantasm, these movies, Halloween and I think after those movies that I just mentioned,

[00:14:43] my mom realized it was having a bad effect on me because I didn't want to sleep in my bed at night. I would crawl into bed with them, you know, and I remember laying my bed just feeling terrified like I would see the tall man from Phantasm in the wood grain in my door, you know, and with the blanket over every, inch of my body and so I, at that point, my mom's like, no more horror movies for you. So I had a long period where I didn't watch anything until I got into high school and started to hear

[00:15:12] about Freddy Krueger and it was just getting so big in the zeitgeist that I finally was like, all right, I gotta check this out and then I've been a horror fan ever since but there was like a good, I don't know, seven or eight year period in there where I didn't watch it and so coming back to watch this again, I hadn't seen it since I was like 11 years old. I hadn't seen Friday the 13th part one or two and I'm so desensitized of that kind of stuff now but I was surprised, I didn't realize how much I would associate this movie with this period in my life

[00:15:42] where I was terrified by these things because even just starting to turn it on, I'm like, oh man, I feel really anxious. I feel like a little kid. That was just when I first turned it on and then I started to really get into it as I was watching it and appreciate it and everything so that's kind of my history with it. I worked at a movie theater as a teenager and Jason Takes Manhattan and Jason Goes to Hell both came out while I was there.

[00:16:12] I mean, it was in my early, late teens, early 20s and some days I would change my name tag just so I didn't have to deal with people saying, oh, it's Jason but other days I might play into it a little bit like, that's right but I'm not, I wouldn't consider myself a super fan, just a fan but I was excited for Crystal Lake not, I mean, for all the reasons I've been talking about that it's A24,

[00:16:41] it's Brad Caleb Kane, it's Linda Carlini and they seem to be taking it into deeper, they're calling it a paranoid 70s thriller and I'm just curious what they're going to do with it but also just because it's something Friday the 13th I just think it's cool that they're making a TV show about it and even before we knew the details we just heard there was going to be a show I was curious to see what they would do with it because they had that other Friday the 13th show but it was nothing to do with Friday the 13th The Haunted Antiques Yeah

[00:17:10] I used to watch that show Sure but I was just like that's not they should have called it It's not it has nothing to do with Jason So anyway that's my history what about you Jamie? Well I was born the same year as Friday the 13th so I like that we've got all decades covered here Nice that's cool When I was in I just always kind of liked horror stuff and I don't know how I got into it or found out about it but when I was in second grade I begged my mom to let me stay up to watch Halloween on Halloween

[00:17:41] and she was like you're gonna have you know you're gonna have nightmares I'm like I'm not gonna have nightmares I was like alright how about I make this deal if I have nightmares I'll never ask you for another horror movie again and she's like and I mean I pestered my poor mother like I remember doing this and she's like alright fine so she watched it with me she had the nightmares I didn't so the rule became I could watch horror movies I just had to warn her to not come in the room Wow at seven years old Yes and so we didn't we didn't have money for cable

[00:18:10] so we didn't have cable but we could go to Blockbuster once in a while but we couldn't get the movies off the new releases we had to go you know inside the store and get the old movies so I always grabbed like an old horror movie to watch and that's how I watched a lot of horror movies was just that was you know the only way to watch TV and then I go I've been going to horror conventions for a long time I've met a lot of the characters of Friday the 13th I just gravitated towards Jason like Chucky

[00:18:42] was both a little too cheesy and a little too scary because I was a kid and I had dolls in my room and I didn't want them coming alive it's like the clown poltergeist thing yeah the clown poltergeist was creepy but I could deal with him Chucky Chucky I didn't like for a couple of reasons uh Freddy was too real like because if that movie scares you you have a nightmare and then that means he's real like that was Jason and like Michael Myers but Jason was the one I gravitated more towards and I

[00:19:11] have now I have this Crystal Lake Memories book that I have I think 20 autographs in from people who are in the movies or dealt with it in some way oh yeah I even I have in here like when they announced the show there was a con shortly thereafter and Adrienne King was there and I had already met her but I like went over to talk with her about the show because she was like I'm she was involved she said she's like you know the right people are doing this they really love it so I was I was getting excited for it

[00:19:40] but being calm and then like I said it canceled it got canceled for a while or shelved for a while and I'm glad I'm very glad it's back I mean when Freddy vs. Jason came out I had friends travel with two from three different states with me to go see the movie and like we watched all the trailers we would call each other when a new trailer would drop like we were just like huge into it like and I had them all coming and my brother and I were also you know he would watch the movies with me too like so my brother and I were big

[00:20:10] Friday the 13th fans and you know and you know my friends were getting there at like 6 o'clock or whatever and he and I either both took the day off of work or were off of school or I forget exactly what it was but he's like we've got time to go see an early screening before everybody gets here so I went and saw Freddy vs. Jason twice in one day I was stoked when that came out and I I very much enjoyed it even though it wasn't like

[00:20:40] people didn't think it was the best thing ever but it was fun I need to watch it again yeah I know it was really fun I remember I don't want to give too many details away but I was disappointed that Freddy didn't kill I don't think he killed anyone right I can't remember now I think no I think he had one kill he had one kill I'm like come on man yeah no I feel like it could have done better and like I always you know people like Freddy vs. Jason I'm like no you want

[00:21:08] Freddy vs. Pinhead and Jason vs. Mike Myers those are the fights you want those are the equal well they were working on I'm sure you know this but doing Freddy vs. Jason vs. Ash after that and who wouldn't want to see that that would be right I did a panel with Kane Hodder when I was doing panels he played Jason in a few of the movies I think he's the most famous Jason actor longest running told a lot of

[00:21:38] crazy stories about stunt work and stuff like that he was a super nice guy but the panel that got me the most is when I got to do one with Robert England who played Freddy and I was just sitting there next to him and I at one point just stopped listening to what he was saying and imagined what if he suddenly turned into Freddy and he was like like I was in a dream meanwhile I took my 4 year old daughter to beat him that's awesome

[00:22:07] yeah she because you know mommy gravitates towards Jason she had to gravitate towards Freddy and she fell in love with him and she met him at 4 years old and saying 1-2 Freddy's coming for you with him is she named after who she is she named after anyone in particular so the final girl Alice was part of the inspiration really that's what I was wondering it was definitely part of the inspiration like there's a bunch of I'm like Jamie's daughter's name's Alice yes that is a little bit on purpose

[00:22:37] and my son was due on the 15th of the year that there was a Friday the 13th like the month like he's in September you're like can we induce I did everything I could and he would have been Jason if he came out on really the 13th yeah that's hilarious like I did absolutely everything even though I was born in 10 years before him yeah alright well Nathan I did I cut you off on your history one of the big standout movies from my history were

[00:23:07] Halloween 4 and 5 because Danielle Harris was the main character of those movies and she was just a kid and I think being a kid myself when I started watching those movies I think it was just easier to identify with the protagonist around the same age as me you know with the same limitations that adults don't necessarily have to worry about and that's what I kind of like about some of those Halloween movies yeah she was called Jamie in the movies and I was like

[00:23:37] oh yeah yeah the girl named Jamie I was very excited I like those movies too that makes me want to start talking about those but we should probably focus on on the Friday the 13th so let's get into Friday the 13th parts 1 and 2 so it's two movies so we won't be as detailed as we normally are but I want to start by what I think it is about these movies movies that draws us in because it's as I said

[00:24:07] it was huge in the culture I don't know if people who weren't around in the 80s realized how big Jason, Freddy and Michael were there were 17 movies that came out just during the 80s they made half a billion dollars domestically in 1980s dollars the original Friday the 13th which cost around half a million dollars

[00:24:37] grossed about 60 million worldwide so over 100 times his budget so it was just this immense success and by the end of the 80s Jason, Freddy and Michael were basically the three faces of horror they kids knew who they were there were TV shows comics games Freddy was guest starring and things you know and so it was just this huge giant hit

[00:25:06] and I mean of course people maybe maybe I'm wrong maybe like people do know because everyone knows the hockey mask everyone knows Jason it's just a big cultural thing and so I was trying to think okay what made it such a hit what drew people to the movies these movies in particular especially Friday the 13th because that's what we're talking about there were already horror movies set in summer camps there were already gory movies but I think what makes Friday the 13th singular and special maybe is

[00:25:36] it's all about the thrill of the kill and wondering like what way is the next person gonna die and the special effects play a big part of it it's just like you can't wait to see and I think they got a little bit more crazy and involved as as it went along so that's you're just waiting and then there's a group of characters that you don't you don't get to know them quite enough to care

[00:26:06] about them too much but they're people so of course it's you care when anyone dies or else it wouldn't be scary you wouldn't be worried for them but they're also in a way I think basically Star Trek red shirts you know and maybe you guys won't agree with everything I'm saying I'm curious but I think for me in these two movies I didn't want to see any of them die but it wasn't like you know they were killing Rick Grimes or something

[00:26:35] and so I can sort of go oh my god versus oh my heart you know those are the two different and then I mean by the end with these two movies you feel a little bit more invested or I did anyway of what what we now call the final girl so I felt more like I wanted that person to survive so that's one way that I think the Friday the 13th movies are special and then of course there's the gratuitous sex and the

[00:27:05] nudity and it's just like there's a bunch of visceral buttons we can push fear suspense disgust sexual arousal and we're going to push all of them that's what this movie does you know so that so I don't know what do you guys think about what I've said so far well as the movies got bigger like you said like it was so big that people were rooting for the bad guys yeah like people were rooting like you go to these movies especially the Friday 13th movies like because Jason kills

[00:27:34] uniquely and then he places the body he always places the bodies around which is a way that's gonna fuck with people's heads yeah and sometimes you don't even necessarily see someone killed you just find their body in a really cool way later I feel like yeah there's a bit of the Negan thing going on that way where we like root for the bad guy like you're saying I was thinking I feel like we do that more with Jason and Freddy than we do with Michael I don't know if I feel

[00:28:04] like I'm rooting for Michael I'm still it's different for some reason and I can't quite figure out why because that's the only movie where we have with a grain of salt because it's not a thousand percent true but mostly the same final girl through all the movies you've been rooting for Laurie the whole time like you have one girl like with Friday 13 you get one you get two movies at the most for a final girl or guy yeah I think there's

[00:28:34] something to that but also I don't know if I'm rooting for Michael to kill any of the other people either though I feel like I'm still maybe just because he's so empty Jason's fairly empty too but he's still you know about his tragic history so maybe that has something to do with it I don't know and Kane hotter like when Kane hotter took over Jason got more emotion like somehow just a little tilt of the head gave a lot

[00:29:04] like you know I used to joke around like you know Jason can smell an orgasm from five miles away yeah if anybody gets naked they're they're doomed he knows it he can tell and then the other little thing is it's they kind of remind me of the Terminator it's just this sort of soulless force of nature and the fact that he's kind of slow somehow adds to it that they still can't get away from him just because he's unrelenting

[00:29:32] you know and it's just this force that's coming for you and you can't reason with it and it's just scary to think about that but kind of exciting you know when it's like you said Nathan you don't have to encounter it in your real life it's just up on the screen but I think that's something that's kind of appealing in a twisted way to people too something I like about the characters especially in these two movies even though like you said that some of them aren't fully developed is that there isn't really anybody in the friend group who's a

[00:30:02] big jerk it's true like Kevin Kevin Bacon's the hunk but you know he doesn't really talk down to Ned who's kind of the nerdy guy you can make an argument in the second movie for Scott who like I was gonna say Scott's kind of a dish steals the clothes on the beach but yes did he also shoot her in the butt with the slingshot yeah yeah that's not cool but it's not like they do

[00:30:32] sometimes these days where you can really tell that they're trying to get you to hate someone and you think oh this guy's probably gonna die because I can tell by how big of a douchebag he's being that I don't they don't want me to feel bad about that and this guy I guess he comes kind of close to that but I would agree that I don't think he deserves to die for it yeah in general I would say you know these are just friends

[00:31:01] all right let's move on to another point Nathan what do you want to talk about um I want to talk about Annie in the first movie so first of all she asked a dog for directions to Crystal Lake which I like that's always a plus when somebody talks to a dog um I think in that first movie she's at least at the start she's kind of the audience POV because everybody else is at camp or at least almost on their way to camp

[00:31:31] they're establishing rapport with each other and she's kind of the one person the odd man out who's still making her way there she's not sure what to expect and I think in that way she's kind of the audience surrogate for a while or at least people watching the movie for the first time right when there's no Friday the 13th for reference yeah you don't know what you're getting into because I was thinking if you know you were saying earlier when people would watch

[00:32:01] this in 1980 and they didn't know who Jason was or who Mrs. Voorhees was they might not necessarily know who to suspect and as Annie's making her way to the lake you know she's running into you know the truck driver first of all stranger danger Steve the camp owner Steve Christie he drives the same jeep it seems like as

[00:32:30] Mrs. Voorhees so when Annie gets picked up in it you might think I recognize that later and of course Ralph we talked about a little bit you know he says some ominous things he's the messenger of God you're doing yeah harbinger of death yep and yeah so she meets all these kind of different characters on her way to camp and it makes you think

[00:33:00] you know something bad is going to happen to these kids I wonder who might potentially be a killer and actually on that point can we talk about crazy Ralph a little bit he's my favorite can I say a few things about Annie yeah yeah she I loved her and she's kind of a trip because she feels like she came out of another movie she's so freaking plucky you know and the way that actress delivers her

[00:33:30] lines and I watched an interview with her that she gave just a year ago and she's like 60 something now and she still has that attitude so that's I think that's her you know she's just bringing herself to the role it is her I was at a con waiting for to meet Pamela Voorhees and Betsy Palmer and the line was forever long because she took a lot of time with people but the actor who played

[00:34:00] Annie was right there and I spent a solid hour talking to this woman just like hanging out Robbie uh Robbie Morgan Robbie Morgan so she was like that yeah she was just so much fun that's cool yeah she was so yeah she was so much fun she was just kept us entertained and like was super sweet and I love the like don't call them kids thing like it sounds like they're goats I like that she said okie dokie to a dog

[00:34:31] yeah it's it's almost it's a little almost silly but I still loved it it's just so her character so appealing and she's so idealistic talking about her plans and wants to care for kids and like you know you think about I'm going to talk about this more later about how sometimes it seems like Jason or in this case Pamela is about punishing sin and sex but she's free of sin as far as we can tell you know she never gets a chance to commit

[00:35:01] anything before she's dead her sin is that she's a counselor and Pamela where she's doesn't want camp Crystal Lake to be started again but I wondered as I was watching if the character of Annie was deliberately supposed to evoke little orphan Annie because when Friday the 13th around that time 1979 80 Annie was this big pop culture phenomenon in America the Broadway

[00:35:31] musical came out in 77 and swept the Tony Awards and there was a movie in the works that came out in 82 and she was known for her bright red curls and her and this Annie has curls I don't think they're red but she's named Annie she has the curls she has the cheerful optimism and the just pluckiness to the 10th degree so I whether that's true or not I do think that the that audiences probably thought oh she may be

[00:36:01] the hero of this movie because we didn't know what Friday the 13th was yet and just she came off like someone that you hoped would live and so then when she was killed so early in the movie I think that just was their way of signaling that no one was safe yeah bastards yeah I just checked I like just opened my

[00:36:33] but I doing Friday the 13th and I need an innocent camp counselor and you are perfect for that you've got the job if you want it for that one nice so go on Nathan sorry crazy Ralph yeah I

[00:37:03] why do you want to camp blood so for some reason all the townspeople don't want her to go but when Ralph tries to warn her they're like oh that's crazy Ralph you don't have to listen

[00:37:33] saying a lot of other crazy stuff so they've learned to dismiss him something like that I mean they call him crazy Ralph I love crazy Ralph like it's called a death curse I do it

[00:38:03] differently but I love a harbinger and crazy Ralph is one of my favorites without a doubt nice and also one of the few people who's in more than one right the 13th movie and he also cameos he's the narrator in the opening of part seven cool Jamie I mean let's talk about Jack's death which is my favorite death of part one

[00:38:33] Kevin Bacon oh okay yeah I mean Pam Pam Voorhees is so hardcore she waited under that bed until they were all done and then she jams the arrow through the bed and through him like that is hardcore badass my favorite death in

[00:39:06] because it so great like that's some effort like you got those those cheap camp mattresses those things were tough man like and like I said she was under that bed for you know at least five minutes do you kind of when we were talking about this podcast before you talked about best kills so do you kind of rank the kills yeah I mean yeah because that's part of why I watch these movies is for the kills

[00:39:36] like how are they going to kill this time is it going to be something different I mean with this series if you're a friend of Friday the 13th as a whole series the kills get crazier and wilder and there's more blood and more guts and I mean if you like you know evil dead and that kind of stuff too is the same thing like it gets silly but it's the silly makes it less real I think yeah which makes it more fun that's true over time yeah so like these still feel kind of real yeah

[00:40:06] as it gets later they get a little bit sillier but it's still I don't know laughing in the face of death I best kill in this one because I have a whole lot of horror friends like we've sat around and had these conversations many times like you know best kill in the series best kill in the each movie or you

[00:40:53] I think they just not all of them imagine that the people at these conventions are all weirdos or depraved or something and you go to the convention and it's just a bunch of super cool normal people you know it's our conventions are the nicest people by far they're the most welcoming like I have never been to a horror convention I mean there's always a little bit of jerks everywhere but by far there's more jerks at the comic

[00:41:23] cons than there are the horror conventions they're like I end up getting hugs from people that I met online because we just bonded over the thing yeah it's so much fun yeah alright I want to talk about I was really trying to figure out okay you know these movies are about the what

[00:41:53] kill is he going to do next and the thrill and of being afraid and and even the sort of sexual titillation and all that but is there some deeper thing going on and especially I I watch both these movies I really liked the first movie better I think most people like the second movie better I

[00:42:23] was leading us around like setting up expectations and then subverting them sometimes and knowing when to build tension and when to relieve or subvert that tension and then when to pay it off with the shock and I think a lot of that is circling around this idea of the defiling of innocence to shock us in different ways and the first movie all the movies are like that I think the

[00:42:53] Friday the 13th but the first one got to me more it was shocking in a way that really got to me and was more unnerving the second one felt a little more mechanical to me like paint my numbers kill kill kill but the first idea of what I mean by that they first set up these kids as wholesome and pure and innocent like these

[00:43:23] 1958 kids that you see in the first scene feel like they stepped out of some kind of summer camp brochure or something like a church camp and they're singing church songs Michael roll your boat a shore hallelujah and then right away these two they look like they're in the Brady bunch or something and then they go to the attic and have sex and I think that was a deliberate immediate subversion of your expectation you know because the advantage that

[00:43:53] this movie had back in the 80s is no one knew what to expect yet of these movies so I'm sure it was like oh my god and I mean unless you watch the trailer you probably had an idea but then she's asking the sinful which is a great contrast after they were just singing church songs then you cut to the present day and it's Annie which we already talked through but she's just so damn plucky and wholesome

[00:44:23] and then she's killed so it's just the movie presents these seemingly wholesome innocent kids and then in a sense defiles them by having them get sexual and then again defiles them by killing them can be disturbing but also exciting and I think it could activate all different feelings for different people even conflicting feelings in the same person like you could

[00:44:53] be excited by the sex while also thinking these kids shouldn't be doing that some people might think that or others might think it's just fine you can think their the audience were teens who maybe had their own sex lives and had complicated feelings about it maybe on some level they felt guilty or at least concerned that other people might judge

[00:45:23] them and so coming from that point of view this is a total nightmare like fuck they're being punished for their sins you know and it's kind of a mind fuck it's like am I supposed to be enjoying the sex or agreeing with the moral judgment of it that it seems like this movie is having and then the sort of voyeuristic point of view plays into this a lot I was really noticing that especially in the first movie I think it did it so well where you feel like you're a peeping

[00:45:52] tom the cameras peeking through windows or across the lake as they're messing around through the trees and it's like we're spying on them and we're also seeing them from the perspective of some anonymous killer and since we have no idea about the killer yet it's like that's our perspective we're the killer or we're the judger of these kids and even before Pamela Voorhees

[00:46:22] reveals herself and explains her motive that you know they were not paying attention and they were making love and there's still this feeling that the killer is passing judgment on the kids I think because sex and punishment just keep getting put right next to each other through a lot of it and pissed off her son drowned because counselors who were supposed to be watching him were all fucking around so I just

[00:46:52] think all of this it's I can't quite crystallize it into like this theory of Friday the 13th but it's just this whole melange of desire guilt judgment punishment that makes it more than just some fun trashy slasher movie for me it plays on a lot of different feelings and emotions about sex and violence you know yeah that makes

[00:47:22] sense especially when you talk about mrs. Voorhees motivations and she's getting revenge on these people who are having sex and in her mind she's thinking well this is what they were doing when my son drowned so now I gotta punish these kids too right that's what you're saying kinda I mean it feels that way like I said any sort of a counter example of that because she wasn't doing anything sexual and Pamela Voorhees killed her I think it's interesting too

[00:47:52] that Annie is the cook and Pamela says that she was the cook when she was there but I don't really know if that's significant but anyway so I just think that's not the whole thing but it does feel like part of her motivation that she just she does judge them she wouldn't have brought it up you were making love when you should have been watching my son you know so it does feel like there's that sexual judgment and also like like I said if anybody takes off

[00:48:22] their clothes or starts having sex in the Friday the 13th movie they're a goner you know that you know and so you can't help but feel like there's some kind of moral judgment there or a karmic thing or something like that and I think she was also protecting the kids that were coming like if she killed everybody off they couldn't have the camp so more kids can't die when the counselors are not paying attention yeah I think that's part of it too yeah she just

[00:48:52] doesn't you know and the way she does it so creatively it feels like yeah I wouldn't necessarily want to say oh she's this what's the word I'm looking for she's this like savior vigilante or something like that it's just

[00:49:21] she's all kinds of fucked up in my opinion yeah everybody gets yeah can we talk about the yeah go for it I mean that sound is epic but I mean everybody gets it wrong they're like you know chi chi chi it's not chi chi chi it's not it's ki chi chi because they played with the kill her kill them mommy kill them mommy that's what they played with to get the sound it's like ki chi chi mama like the sound like the sound

[00:49:51] of jason's henry manfrini who did it I didn't write it down henry manfrini yay look at my memory working um or harry harry it's an h name harry um he just how i can't like i don't think the movie works without the sound it's kind of like even more so i think in the second movie than the first movie but it's kind of like the jaws sound when jaws when jaws shows up

[00:50:21] in the movie like you know when it's jason you know like it adds to the tension when you start hearing that sound i was watching it here in my room um with my vr headset and i thought i heard something so i just peeked underneath and out of the corner of my eye saw movement and it fucking jumped and it was my cat who's not supposed to be in here i don't know why i think that sound was happening

[00:50:51] the key key key yeah like it sets it sets it makes your nervous system yeah i agree with you i don't know if this would have movie really would have taken off without that it feels like such an integral part of it yeah and i don't know yeah if this movie then the rest of them too like that's such a part of jason is the soundtrack and the sound and that especially that sound like his theme sound or yeah so i guess the composer harry

[00:51:20] manfredini that came after the movie was shot and he watched it and saw pamela war he's going kill kill the mommy and thought oh well we want to sort of get across that she's always got jason in her head so uh she he used the first two syllables key key for kill kill mama for mommy and added process the sound with echo and reverb and i read it was partly inspired

[00:51:49] by consonant heavy polish film scores that he was studying at the time and uh so then in that context that it's actually kind of like pamela it's supposed to reinforce that she's hearing her son telling her to kill all these people it doesn't quite make sense in the rest of the series with her gone that jason's hearing kill kill them mommy in his head but maybe he's just thinking about his dear old mom i don't know he's always

[00:52:19] thinking about mom yeah he's the biggest mama's boy out there that's right that's right that's why we love him so much nathan what else yeah let's continue talking about mrs vorhees and how she's an unassuming villain she kind of seems to be the inverse of psycho instead of instead of norman bates hearing his mother mrs vorhees hears her son yeah um like you were saying earlier there's a lot of pov shots

[00:52:48] when the character when she's talking to a character they're staring right into the camera and one interesting thing about the way people interact with her is like in the 1958 flashbacks at the start of the movie when she catches the kids making out they're not afraid of whoever's walking up the stairs when they're caught having sex it's more like they're just kind of embarrassed they're like oh hey we weren't doing anything

[00:53:18] if it was like a burly man in a mask or something they might be like oh yeah yeah and then later when uh when steve sees her out in the rain he's like oh hi what are you doing out here it's very friendly yeah and when i watched the second time through and you know it's this like house wife looking woman it makes a lot of sense how they react to her even alice seems relieved the first time she sees her like alice seems to think like oh okay here's someone who can help me god i think she even says

[00:53:48] that yeah and then even going back to annie who just jumps in the vehicle and just starts talking to her about camp i feel like annie would do that with anyone but yeah that's true that is her second ride of the day that's right yeah i feel like unmasked jason she still would have had the same conversation also the uh the cinematography jason you were saying earlier about kind of appreciating this first movie more um you know they got the long lingering

[00:54:17] shots that prioritize the atmosphere yeah and there's there's little things like you know we spend 30 seconds with alice just making coffee on the stove that moment was so tense and when there she walks into the pantry that's dark and yeah we're there for a while and just the fact that you are there for a while makes you think something's gonna happen and then nothing does and it that's what sort of an

[00:54:47] example what i meant where he knows how to play with tension and sometimes subvert your expectations around it and then other times pay it off with a scare especially because earlier in the day ralph was just standing in that closet and uh other moments like that you know you spend some time with bill just lighting a couple lanterns um there's some long lingering shots of ralph just riding his bike off into the distance and you get a great shot

[00:55:17] of the lake in the sky even a few animals like you see a couple shots of otter swimming and just nature shots you know highlighted by alice laying in the canoe at the end you know until that switches up that moment there was something about the way it was shot uh are you talking about in the daytime when the police came yeah and then jason springs up

[00:55:46] out of the lake and there's something eerily interesting about that scene not just that it was a jump scare but i mean the fact that they put the police in there really gave you a false sense of security so that was probably part of it but it was just a really well done scene i thought it was also i don't know what the right like kind of hazy around the edges so there's always this discussion as to was it real or a dream right because it's hazy around the edges

[00:56:15] and like she's so calm she's like you know her finger it's almost like a painting with her fingers you know just at the surface of the water yeah it's also calm and serene and like but yeah there's always that discussion and i don't know that anybody's fully admitted whether it was or you know supposed to be a dream or not i feel like i read that the writers said they intended it jason not to be real after the first movie but i don't know yeah then at the end she's like oh then he must

[00:56:45] be out there and she says it in a crazy kind of a way so my almost like she's worried about him more than being killed by him like she sounds more worried about him like this little boy is in the lake yeah it felt to me and i doubt this is actually the intention but it felt almost like pamela vorhees was clearly completely nuts and she was hearing jason's voice inside her and now she's dead and now that insanity

[00:57:15] has passed over to this character or something you know that's what it felt like you know she's the one that cares about jason but i i definitely my read on it was that jason wasn't real at that point you know it's just a hallucination that she had and then she woke up from her dream in the hospital but i know that's just one person's read and it seems like the cops are staring right at her yeah as she gets dragged into

[00:57:45] the lake and then right after she wakes up they say they didn't say anything so i mean the first responders in this town don't seem to be the best yeah but still you see this and then they're like oh i don't know what you're talking about i mean it was so far away they just thought she got spooked and rolled off the book um but speaking of uh just these long lingering shots in the cinematography and and the scene with the um

[00:58:13] coffee it just being so tense even though nothing happens it reminded me did you guys see resident evil recently the new no oh you gotta watch it i know i want to so good and zach crager is one of my favorite modern directors of any kind and he did weapons and barbarian and resident evil all great movies but he said jump scare somebody uh was interviewing him and said oh the jump scares you had in that are really good how do you do it and he goes oh it's not really about the scare itself it's all about the wind up

[00:58:43] you know you gotta know how to do that part yeah i love a good jump scare and i'll jump easy like if i'm at a i'm at a haunted house i'm in a horror movie i'm watching a horror movie like i am paying in one way or another to be scared so i want to be scared so i'm gonna jump like there's one scene in um resident evil and i don't think they'll spoil it because i'm being super vague but your attention is directed somewhere else and then all of a sudden

[00:59:12] you know it really gets everybody so good i love a good jump scare you're gonna love this movie i can't wait to hear what you think about it you know i think tomorrow's half price day at the movie theater and i don't think we have plans tomorrow night so i want to talk about things that play differently today given that this is a movie from 45 years ago and you can really feel that they're in a different time and um you know sort of went on the positive side

[00:59:43] that setting the early 80s it made me miss that time you know that's my childhood and it was simpler and less techie and i love i'm a huge tech fan but there's just something really nice about the idea that you need to use a payphone and you have to actually ask someone for directions and write them down i remember having to do that you know and um also that casual hitchhiking doesn't seem weird or scary which is kind

[01:00:13] of nice in a way even though people probably did get murdered back in the 80s from that uh but other things there was a lot more smoking um and then there was a lot that stands out as questionable or problematic or just kind of wrong maybe if you look at it through a certain from a certain angle and um i just feel like watching it uh for the first time in so long that stuff stood

[01:00:41] out so much that i feel like it just bears talking about for example the counselors putting like a one of them having that feather um what do you call it a ring around your head and doing the headdress stereotypical native american war wolves you know i mean that's the kind of thing that of course you saw all the time when i was a kid people do but that plays differently i feel like we did that in school yeah yeah yeah for sure like as

[01:01:11] part of what your teachers were having you do um this truck driver that gives annie a ride he feels pretty skeezy to me by today's standards he's they're headed to the truck and he goes all the girls up there are gonna look as good as you and she giggles and goes i don't know and i i think back then that probably played more like just totally harmless and oh that's a funny guy

[01:01:40] but now it's like dude don't say shit like that you know yeah but then when he's helping her up into the truck and he puts her hands on her hips but it's really her ass to push her up in the front seat without asking if she needs help and i sort of want to know what the conversation on set was like and i i don't know whether that's supposed to be seen as normal or or if it is more of part of this whole thing i was talking about of this defiling

[01:02:10] of innocence you know i'm not sure how 1980s audiences would have felt about that for but for me it was like ah don't touch her dude yeah but she just ignores it and i i don't know i think he is a harmless guy and that was definitely of its time but also this is a movie about kids that get killed when they're having sex so i could see the um director knowing that this guy's kind of a sleazebag yeah it's an

[01:02:38] old man or older man getting a little bit of a thrill from right which still you still see that kind of happen yeah right it's not like it doesn't happen anymore but it just seems like now there's more of a very of more consciousness that that's not cool so if you're doing that you're not cool you're getting away with something that you know yeah i think i think back then you were expected to kind of just ignore it like she did right like oh it's just

[01:03:08] he's so funny yeah even though like somewhere inside and maybe not even totally consciously you might be going god i wish i didn't have to deal with that shit yeah yeah so and then just like i'm not gonna keep going through all the different exam examples but just the gratuitous sex and nudity it was much more common in mainstream r-rated movies in the 80s and the and the culture was generally more accepting of

[01:03:37] sexual objectification as part of entertainment see porkies for example i was gonna say not just in the horror movies there were a lot of comedies that had it too yeah and and also violence against women sex and nudity and violence against women and it's not like back then nobody thought this was exploitative uh i was looking at the siskel and ebert what they thought of it and they actually did a whole sneak previews episode called women in danger and friday the 13th was one of their main

[01:04:06] examples and they talked about annie this independent young woman going off to a summer job and said that the movie essentially punishes her for it i'm not saying i totally agree with this but just presenting the opinion that yeah there was there was talk about it and they thought the whole trend of killing women in movies like this was misogynistic and hated it so the objections were around but i i just think um i do think that uh

[01:04:35] like the this the sex and the nudity and the there is some objectification of women in particular and i don't know all the all the teenagers get killed so maybe you can't say that it's about violence against women i don't know what you guys think about that speaking as a woman who loves horror yeah right the thing one of the things that i was always drawn to because for the most part it's final girl it's actually seeing a woman take

[01:05:05] control handle the situation and defeat the evil man without generally without help of a man like the woman gets it done and that doesn't happen in really any other genre especially at that time it was always the man saving the woman in every other genre and this you know yes there's objectification there's there's all the stuff you said a thousand percent absolutely but that was in every genre this one also had the hey women can get this done

[01:05:35] women are the ones who are gonna survive but i mean there's both sides of it i'm not dismissing at all but there is a little bit of hey this is the one chance that women had at the time to be the hero yeah both movies are like that at the end of the second movie uh is it jenny she's the one yeah she figures out that just pretending to be his mother will calm him down so she can take care of him that was

[01:06:06] clever yeah it's cool and um as i'm watching it though i'm just i'm like thinking about objectification of of women sexually you know it's like what if there's consent from everyone involved is it okay those are the kind of questions you know i ask myself now and i'm like well the how old are these actresses you know those are the kind of questions that come in my mind do they feel like they have choice and there's just so much more it's so much more

[01:06:35] complicated now i mean that was before intimacy coordinators so they didn't have a choice they either acted in this movie and got naked and you know probably some bad things were going on behind the scenes too maybe you know just based on the history and what's going on but yeah and i just think you know now especially since me too there's been this whole shift around how we think about this stuff sexual objectification and consent and power dynamics and everything something that is uh

[01:07:05] amazing and but then it's just so interesting how and i know everyone everyone knows that there's more ground to cover there for sure but there's such a it's like when was that 2017 with uh weinstein and everything i don't remember the exact year but it just feels like in some ways a different world from one side of that to the other just as far as everybody sort of waking up to

[01:07:35] oh wait there was we weren't looking at things the right way you know yeah yeah i think about the um the sandlot move where ned gets pulled out of the lake and he pretends like he needs cpr so he can sneak a kiss so it seems like in terms of the kills everybody has a fair shot of getting killed but when it comes to the inappropriate

[01:08:03] jokes those are usually at the expense of the women yeah in these earlier movies and you get full frontal of women and not of men right you're saying that's bad no i'm just kidding i mean that's not what you want to say i'm just saying we're talking fairness i know totally all right i just had some random notes about the first movie i just thought particularly in this movie it was interesting that the killer is unseen

[01:08:32] you know we don't we get almost no we get like feet at one point but most of the time you're looking through the killer's eyes and you can't see any body parts or anything um i totally forgot kevin bacon was in this and as soon as he starts getting it on i was like no you're gonna die uh i was looking back this is his fourth movie credit animal house was his first movie i didn't even know he was in that but um i once

[01:09:02] talked with kenny loggins who of course sang footloose on the phone so that puts me two degrees of separation away from kevin bacon um you mentioned the final girl um and that was the concept was definitely in my head at the time but it's interesting to remember that back then there was like nobody was calling them final girls i guess i read that film scholar carol j clover

[01:09:32] coined the term final girl in her 1987 essay her body himself and developed the concept further in her 1992 book men women and chainsaws i might check that out um it was sort of maybe a little bit of a flaw that they could have handled more smoothly that pamela vorhees is completely silent the whole movie until the end when it's time for us to get to know who she is and then she starts talking

[01:10:01] and conveniently decides to tell her story to the person she's about to kill instead of the way she did with everyone else where she would just go up to them and slash them right away i mean that's a movie trope movie trope bond doesn't know what's going on until he's caught and somebody's spending far too long talking to him and gives him time to get out i mean yeah that's that's just yeah it's just a movie thing uh i sort of what i thought it was weird that alice went over to the boat and sat there

[01:10:30] i'm like uh you should be running away right now i mean it was raining it's another horror trope how else would we get the pretty picture with jason hopping out yeah of course can't not have that all right that's all my random notes on that movie we've got a few so the uh when they kill the snake they they the snake gets killed for real um in the bunk yeah i don't like that and um

[01:10:58] it's kind of an offhanded remark but ralph is married at some point one of the officers is like we got a call from ralph's wife he's she's worried he's running out here again or you know something like that he's married to crazy edna um about that snake i read that according to accounts from the production the snake's handler wasn't even told they were going to kill it oh no so it's extra fucked up yeah

[01:11:28] could have just gotten a rubber snake it would have been okay all right what about number two jamie i mean i thought of this while you were talking about like the innocence thing and this one starts out with a little kid doing like the curb walking in the puddle like just the absolute embodiment of innocence and you don't see that you're just looking at feet it's a really interesting way to start a movie and then the kid gets called into dinner and then you get

[01:11:58] the evil monster's feet in that same spot yeah that's like when you start talking about this i'm like oh juxtaposition yeah yeah like that picks up like right in the next movie like that works really well like that thought what else do you have any like points or notes about part two um it has always struck me so when alice when he comes you know we get the nice replay of alice with alice's nightmare about hey if you miss the first movie or it's been a year and you don't remember

[01:12:29] here's what happened like i like the way they played back you know they gave us like the history last time on friday the 13th right but with a nightmare um i thought that was a good way to do it so you can see what's going on you realize she's been quickly yeah she's been wrestling with this for a long time um the cinematography is not the best but um and that we talked about the jump scares like when the cat comes through the window and of course it's an orange cat it gives you the jump

[01:12:58] scare and you think that's the scare and then nope there's jason well there's his mom's head in the fridge and then there's jason that's the way they do it fake a fake scare and then you feel like okay good that was nothing and then but um i there so i first read okay that's adrian king adrian king who played alice alice and i read that she asked for her role in part two to be small because well it's true

[01:13:28] that she was terrorized by a stalker after the first movie which eventually led her to just stop acting for a long time but then there was a story that she had asked for her role in part two to be small because of that but then she said in an interview on screen rant more recently that she had agreed to come back and didn't even know that alice was going to die and she wasn't given a script and she arrived to shoot after most of the movie had already finished like surprised to discover

[01:13:57] that that was her role so i'm not sure what to believe but it sounds like she she thought she was going to be the main character through the whole thing yeah she definitely did have a stalker which is always really scary yeah that's messed up but yeah i like i liked how it started and then you know they retell the story again in one of my favorite scenes which is the campfire scene and i just i like how they put in retelling the story it makes sense it doesn't feel forced

[01:14:27] it doesn't and then again it ends with a jump scare the guy oh the when the goofy guy terry when terry comes jumping out of the woods with the mask on and we see the mask like a few other times i jumped yeah with that you're supposed to jump scare but what i liked about that is it brought in the whole thing of the scary story around the campfire they usually get camp and they didn't do that in the first movie and then it's great because

[01:14:57] in this case the creepy story is actually true which is really fun yeah no i love the the campfire story idea like that was such a smart like yeah any other do you have any other like big points about this one nathan yeah i really like uh just in terms of the campers i really like the mark and vicky relationship he's in the wheelchair and she's just kind of by his side the whole time it's you know

[01:15:26] it's pretty wholesome they just want to spend time together um you know he's in a wheelchair due to injury but doesn't really seem to hold him back or play into the story too much it's just a fact of life for him um they played these little um i don't know tiger handhelds whatever they're game boys before game boys um did you have did either of you have those kind of things yeah i can't remember what mine was called i had little i mean they were usually one game

[01:15:56] that you could play so i had a little football game or something yeah wasn't quite as bad as pong um a lot of the movies going forward like we said with alice in the beginning we'll have that previously on friday the 13th montage at the start of the film so you see mark's wheelchair falling backwards down the stairs like five more times if you just watch all the movies because they keep playing the greatest

[01:16:26] hits of kills at the beginning of each one yeah that's one of the favorite kills for people is the wheelchair going yeah yeah if they're gonna have a guy in a wheelchair then they're gonna have to have like a thousand steps for it fall down which we don't see those steps all that often it's just when he's going down can we talk about vicky's underwear yeah she has on cute little black panties and she pulls out these ugly ass brown

[01:16:56] panties i know and she's gonna love these she walks out to her car and just those undies i mean at least somebody got to see them but still that has always cracked me up that she pulls out the ugliest underwear yeah it's kind of funny i mean they were cute together she's like so it's just your legs that doesn't work i'm just checking if i'm barking up the wrong tree here or not like i almost would have wanted to see the

[01:17:26] alternate universe movie where they just get to have their relationship without any killers around but like he keeps saying he's in training but we don't know he doesn't even know for what yeah well he's wearing a jersey anyway yeah i mean he's determined to walk so maybe he's just in training to get back to walking yeah he said he was gonna walk again at some point but he was wrong he was yes i'm not gonna spend the rest of my life in this chair sorry sorry you are out of the chair

[01:17:55] no he died i mean like he gets the machete to the face first and then he goes down the stairs so oh yeah i guess that was the rest of his life oh boy yeah poor guy okay i wanted to talk about some behind the scenes trivia i was wondering how they landed on the title friday the 13th that i read screenwriter victor victor miller's original title was going to be a long night at camp blood but the producer

[01:18:25] director sean s cunningham came out with friday the 13th because he just thought it was a great marketable horror movie title and so then the screenwriter went back and added references to friday the 13th but it makes sense because it was all in the wake of halloween did that come out like 79 late 70s right yeah and it was yeah i mean that's right it was a huge hit and so halloween is named after a day and so is this movie

[01:18:54] and i don't know if i ever actually thought about that before but it totally makes sense and i think they've even said you know yeah we were trying to emulate the success of halloween but then they killed their killer so that's a little weird well halloween was supposed to be an anthology thing like each movie was going to take place on halloween with a different story that's why halloween and the studio because of how big halloween one was made them do a sequel in halloween two but then they got to do halloween three was what was supposed to be halloween two

[01:19:24] right it was supposed to be a different story which yeah that that's why there's no michael myers in halloween three and you know what i think friday the 13th was like that too i think they were going to do an anthology yeah but then both halloween and friday the 13th were like we just made a shitload of money let's just keep these going keep it going but yeah because you can't if you do camp blood it's easier to do you know hey these bad things keep happening on friday the 13th and yeah

[01:19:53] yeah um the film's primary location for camp crystal lake was called camp no be both go or something like that which was a functioning boy scout camp in hardwick new jersey it was established in 27 still in operation uh for the scouts they don't allow filming there so crystal lake didn't film there uh instead crystal lake the tv series coming up they were going to be podcasting on used

[01:20:22] another new jersey camp camp okawasson um but they apparently did film other scenes in some of the other movies original locations which will be fun to see it i'm glad we watched this first because i think it's going to really enhance our experience of that show especially for me who hadn't seen it for so long and that camp opens up uh camp no be bus school or um they have friday the 13th events all the time like you can stay there and watch the movie on the lake

[01:20:51] like you can that is super cool yeah and i've read they have like still have some props and stuff yeah movies yeah and they have a con once a year where they have you know you can have dinner at the diner with the actors and then you can meet them at the and like have dinner and stuff with them they'll tell stories about oh we did this over here and we did that over there and then they hire someone from the dark web to come in and kill everyone it's really fun uh i was watching

[01:21:20] that recent interview with robbie morgan who played annie and she said something that i wonder how it jibes with what you said about how she got the role because she said there was an like a big audition for camp counselors and she she's an acrobat she's like a competitive acrobat she was and so she started doing cart wheels and she feels like that really helped her get the part because then she like jumped out of the moving jeep herself did her own

[01:21:48] stunt which i think is kind of fun um imdb said betsy palmer accepted the role of pamela vorhees because her car broke down and she needed ten thousand dollars for a new one and after her first read of the script she called it quote a piece of shit and threw it in the trash assuming nobody would see the film and then over the years her opinion has changed and the role made her a big famous horror icon and she came to appreciate

[01:22:17] the movie and started going to conventions and stuff like that participating in documentaries yeah adrian king um they had a friendship and she's the one who brought her back into it she was like look people love you people adore these movies and people love you like come to a convention with me see what it's like see how much you're loved and how how much people actually like these movies as much as you think they're terrible yeah that'll change your opinion about something like that yeah she i feel so lucky that i got to

[01:22:47] meet her she was just the sweetest woman that's great i got big hugs from her she was fantastic yeah she was amazing very cool she's got she's interesting i mean i could picture her saying what a piece of shit just based on her performance in this movie um imdb said that the plot of part two shocked most people i mean i think it's so cool i think it's pretty cool that part one at least in my reading was about this folktale style

[01:23:16] myth but it was all just uh a mentally ill woman and jason wasn't real but then the supernatural folktale myth of the first movie comes true in the second at least that's how i see it but imdb says the plot of part two shocked most people associated with the original film betsy palmer tom savini and sean cunningham all have made public remarks about how stupid it was that jason was alive the whole time and if he were then why didn't he just tell his mother that he was alive which would have avoided all the

[01:23:45] murders in part one i mean somebody might have just written that and imdb i don't know but if they did say that i feel like the joke's kind of on them because if not for that then we wouldn't have jason voorhees and all these successful movies and everything what's the story that um her getting her head chopped off is what activated him from the bottom of the lake okay i like it so he wasn't quite alive the whole time yeah he needed the catalyst and he gets more and more supernatural as the movies go on yeah you

[01:24:15] cannot kill him he's like wolverine yes when you do kill him then tommy jarvis makes poor decisions and brings it back to life and then my last thing is originally it was intended for jenny amy steel's character jenny to die but the producers decided to keep they liked her performance and they wanted to sign her up for part three but then her agent told her not to because she'd get better roles and she chose to listen and years later she

[01:24:44] said she regretted that decision so i think she was supposed to keep going would have been cool yeah would have been interesting to see yeah because she's she's my favorite final girl i think yeah she looks familiar to me i think i must have seen her in other things back then she was in a lot of stuff back then she was like in general hospital and all my children and then um she like she did like one officer you know like a few episode arcs of all kinds of

[01:25:14] stuff back then i forgot you and me watch the same soaps let's talk about jenny a little bit yeah because she's got the child psychologist background it's probably a good background for a camp uh she's seen as capable she's strong like we see her chainsawing firewood and it makes sense later in the movie when she goes to get the chainsaw later she knows exactly where to find it we saw it because we saw her using

[01:25:44] it earlier in the day um she also has very human moments like she pees her pants hiding under the bed when she's hiding from jason and a rat walks by her her face that has always bothered me how come how can the rat be more scary than jason almost killing you two scenes ago yeah i don't know like i'm it's not the peeing the pants part it's just the how is

[01:26:13] the rat more scary yeah i wonder if it how it was shot if the rat just happened to walk by and she was scared of jason that would be my guess but he she'd already like run away from him a few times she'd run away when he was trying to kill her boyfriend and she didn't help at all i could just see if you're like running that's a different kind of energy than if you're waiting and you think they might be close you know okay i'll give it i'll give it that

[01:26:43] i think the thing that the thing that appeals people probably to her most of all is when she puts on the sweater and she pretends to be mrs vorhees and tries to tell jason what to do what do you think about that scene i loved it i mean i liked it was really interesting in the scene before when they're in like the diner bar or whatever and she starts expressing some understanding of jason and nobody else wants to hear it

[01:27:13] right is that that's kind of what happened yeah i only got a chance to watch it one more time yeah everybody's talking like jason's jason's a monster pam was a monster and then she's giving some insight into them and i think that's also probably going to be stuff that comes into play into this show like yeah probably going to build off of that maybe yeah i wouldn't be surprised but i that was that scene i think was good to have in there because it sort of set it up to make sense why she was

[01:27:42] pretending to be his mother at the end and it made it so that she kind of defeated him by understanding him by using her professional expertise and i just thought that was uh that was probably one of my favorite things about this movie even though i didn't like it as much as the first one what about you nathan no i loved it i don't because i don't think you really see anything kind of psychological like that going forward it's a lot of you know stabbing and running away

[01:28:12] type of thing so yeah that's just uh the telekinesis we get later on oh yeah that's true what about that yeah that's it takes us a while but then back in part seven we shake it up with that we get a little bit of a jason vibe yeah i mean he freaking goes to space so he just wanted his machete back i love that i love that stupid movie

[01:28:40] i love it so much i love it so much it's so dumb yeah i mean they might as well just i mean it would be great to get more stuff like that but sometimes you've got to take it all the way and they did and it's so it's so much fun i mean we don't want to see just crystal lake over and over again no although now we're getting prestige crystal lake so i'm excited about that yeah i mean this is going to be different than a slasher

[01:29:09] also about um jenny one more point about the ending she um there's a lot of debate kind of like the first movie about what exactly goes on in the ending because it seems like the dog is killed yeah earlier in the film but then there's a dog at walking in the door at the end muffin so yeah muffin and i think so i looked it up and the idea was

[01:29:37] uh the ending is real the writers or the writer says paul defends jenny when she's grabbed by jason out of the window and when she's being put in the ambulance she asks where's paul where's paul and at that point the camera would was supposed to zoom in on mrs vorhees head and it was supposed to smile right which was which was supposed

[01:30:06] to imply that paul's fate was bad but they couldn't get the shot to look good and just the way that it was edited um you get the zoom in on the face but nothing happens um so it's a little you know choppy at the end there where she gets pulled out the window and then she's just at the ambulance but yeah it seems like they wanted to do something a little different but it was it was real unlike maybe the first movie's ending i want to say they didn't tell her that he was coming

[01:30:36] through the window hmm when they did that scene yeah yeah so she legit got scared she like starts beating the shit out of him yeah and some something happened to something happened to uh warren gillette too when that like i think he got hurt or something in the glass or he hit the the wrong thing so i know there was like a whole bunch of stuff that went on in that scene that got messed up and then when the ambulance pulls away like that ambulance starts going full speed before the doors

[01:31:06] are even closed the first responders in this town all need new training cop going by himself into the woods without being like hey guys i'm gonna go check this out and then nobody well i mean we don't know if anybody's looking for the cop but i feel like somebody would have talked about it at the bar that night okay but now you're the nitpicker because these things have to happen in order for people oh yeah no slashed up oh this i feel like this movie has more holes than the other one oh yeah yeah

[01:31:36] uh but as far as the the dog goes yeah so people think that because we apparently saw the dog mangled earlier and now it's alive that this must be a dream but it's not and they you know like you've said the writers said it's meant to be real so i guess that was just a different dog or a different animal that we saw before yeah i think it was making up for the snake yeah and it was supposed to when you see the dog your initial reaction is this trick that they keep trying to pull

[01:32:05] over and over again that oh okay good everything's fine but anyone who's watched any horror movie is like i'm not buying it something bad's coming and yet still i jumped when jason came through the window yeah so when jenny and paul get back and they start finding you know they find the bloody bed and then the lights are out in just part of the cabin and then jenny's like there's somebody here there's somebody here she doesn't run

[01:32:36] she doesn't do anything to help paul while he's being attacked yeah and then finally when he starts coming after her when it seems like paul's dead and she's like paul paul i'm like get out of there yeah and it's not paul it's jason she runs into the bathroom like she starts out pretty rough she gets herself together i mean you know i don't know what i would do in that situation fight or flight or freeze i might freeze too i get it but it's just it's just funny how quickly she goes from completely useless

[01:33:06] to resourceful yeah like her brain has to kick in which which a few minutes earlier would have been nice for paul although i guess well we don't know if paul lives or not yeah because i think we never know we never find out what happened to paul right he never comes back no if i were paul though like paul knows that she didn't do you know he doesn't know about all the resourcefulness that came in between but he knows that she didn't help him at all yeah and he still goes to save her

[01:33:36] well he's a good guy uh let's see i only had a couple notes that we haven't already talked about about this that jason's little shack is very well done freaky as hell that was great it looks assembled with like a million different pieces odds and ends yeah curiosities yeah and they didn't show

[01:34:06] that it was jason until pretty close to the end so i kind of wonder if people watching thought that this might be another mystery and it might end up being one of the characters the other characters but um jenny's is addressing him as jason i didn't really feel like a big look oh surprise it's jason she just starts calling him jason

[01:34:35] and then we see that she was right i think i mean if you were told stories all weekend about jason and all of a sudden there's a killer i mean you're gonna guess it's jason yep i probably would have thought it was jason because we open with the previously on and then it cuts to however far away alice is this killer goes to her house and finds her yeah that's true

[01:35:05] i guess yeah because she has jason on her mind no you're totally right yeah and and and uh his mother's head is in her fridge right so yeah actually now that you said that i think we probably all just assumed it was him or probably him anyway yeah and by the way this movie is a little funnier than the first one like why does jason turn alice's stove off i love that because he's

[01:35:35] conscientious and that noise is a little it's annoying i mean did he turn it off or did he just take the thing off the burner we just see him take the thing off yeah like the i think the first time i watched it i thought we were gonna see a head you know like burn the head on the hot you see the red hot coils like just right press it down on there anything else um rip crazy

[01:36:05] ralph yeah he didn't laugh that long either yeah just he got the garrot right around the neck like a wire up against the tree isn't that doesn't jason do that to other people sometimes i feel like that's a standard of his yeah it becomes yeah yeah terry our drinking buddy ted or ted yeah ted the drinking guy saves his life by just hanging out at the bar and asking about after parties he saves his own life

[01:36:35] yeah because he's not at the camp to get killed he's in town and there's got to be more people there's got to be more because there were more kids at the counselors that we just didn't see like we saw them sitting around when they had their like last night of fun thing um and like they rolled up to that bar like there were just the two of them maybe three of them in the vw and then there was the pickup truck that had like 10 kids hanging all off of it and the pickup truck was still there when jenny and paul

[01:37:05] left so there were a bunch of people who did get to survive by drinking yeah that's interesting that people who get drunk often get killed in horror movies but this movie solves that by having the people who are drinking leave the cabin and go somewhere else this movie it saved them that casino or bar that actually burned down a few years after shooting this was before you know if the urban

[01:37:35] legend of the late 80s early 90s is to believe where the Catholic church started paying for these movies this would have been before that so we didn't have to follow those rules quite to the T yet so which one of these two do you guys like better do you have a preference I think one is a better movie but two is more fun and it depends on what I'm in the mood for at the moment that makes sense yeah it's hard

[01:38:05] to say because I feel like this second movie kind of has the blueprint of the first movie but with more campers and potentially more killing I think maybe Mrs. Voorhees is more interesting it's kind of a alien versus aliens kind of thing where it just depends what you want alien yeah I go for alien this one like the kills are kind of more

[01:38:35] drawn like it's more drawn out in the first one in this one once he starts killing it's like dead sometimes it wasn't even that scary to me you know it just I just think the filmmaking quality wasn't there like it wasn't the first one it wasn't like bad but I was just more gripped by the pacing or all the things we talked

[01:39:05] about about suspense in the first movie so that's for the first movie yeah I think the second movie but we don't get the feeling bad

[01:39:34] for Jason or thinking about him as a mama's boy or any of that without the second movie without Jenny talking about that in the bar so we needed the second movie to get those thoughts across pretty much yeah I mean you'd get it a little bit in the first movie but not nearly as much yeah yep all right anything else or should we move on I have quick note well first of all I wrote down Scott kind of looks like Clark Kent if they would have made

[01:40:04] Smallville in the 80s maybe he would have had a shot he's the kind of a douchey guy right yep yeah with the slingshot douchebag Clark Kent I think he kind of looks like you know maybe Tom Welling or yeah but as a fun way to compare both these movies to each other and pick favorites I have a quick this or that and you just choose a preference between these choices so these characters so prankster

[01:40:34] versus prankster there's Ned is the goofy one in the first movie and Ted is the goofy one in the second movie who do you pick Ted yeah I'd pick that car towing trick yeah and he has he really has the perfect face for it he's practically a cartoon yeah I like Ted couple versus couple chemistry Jack and Marcy in the first movie or Jeff and Sandra in the

[01:41:04] second one who do have their truck towed by Ted oh god I don't remember the names so Kevin Bacon and his girlfriend or the couple that get towed I think Jeff and Marcy like he goes with her to break the rules and check out the camp oh in the second one yeah yeah Jeff and Sandra or Jeff and Sandra I mixed up the couple sorry sorry uh

[01:41:34] no I'm gonna pick go with Kevin Bacon okay tough one though I can yeah it's close so I'll go with they were they were sort of what's the names of like you're gonna die but I guess you could say the same thing about Kevin Bacon having sex with

[01:42:30] he's the guy with the like headband and no shirt right mustache yeah questionable relationship with Alice I'm not sure what the difference is yeah yep yeah and finally of course the killer versus killer mrs. Voorhees versus sackhead Jason I would pick Jason even though I like the first movie better it's Jason I

[01:43:06] I think I'll go Jason just because of this just from visually the screen time I've seen him run around whereas in the first movie it's a lot of just off screen or shots of boots and also for me you know what I one of the things I loved about the first movie was just sort of the anonymity of it and the voyeuristic like we're the killer and we're the

[01:43:36] it it's a little goofy for me that it's this kind of mrs. brady type woman it was cool I'm not trying to dog on it but the flavor changed at that point it wasn't quite as satisfying the kevin bacon kill is

[01:44:06] still kind of a mix and match of both movies so that's good yeah I mean you asked me my favorite between these two movies it's going to change on the day like I'm

[01:45:09] I'll go first Kristen Holter Hoff says the lake at the end of the movie always a classic when she's in the boat and he pops out of the water yeah that's iconic and our dear friend Daphne I just

[01:45:39] I don't think she was watching it because we were podcasting on it although I could be wrong she's getting ready for Crystal Lake you know she's just another horror girly she just happened to comes

[01:46:09] from Andy Fisher Jason was a remix of the Halloween franchise John Carpenter described Michael Myers as our collective fear of death in semi human form when I was young the idea terrified me that even if you ran as fast as you

[01:46:39] the idea of death slash overwhelming force and an unrelenting pursuit influenced hundreds of movies afterwards the Terminator it follows final girls scream etc and the Friday the 13th soundtrack is terrifying as well and the manic Crispin Glover dancing okay I have an explanation for that one so in part four Crispin Glover is one of the kids

[01:47:09] and he does this goofy dance but the thing is the song he was dancing to isn't the song that they put in the final cut of the film so it just makes his moves jarring and goofy but it also works with like the whole dead fuck thing true Andy thanks for writing that in I'm glad you shared that I can feel your enthusiasm and your words there for sure I'm so glad we have so many people who love

[01:47:38] Friday the 13th as much as I do or at close all right that is our show episode 723 thanks for listening everybody I hope that you guys are excited to check out Crystal Lake with us I'm excited that'll be next episode we're covering two at a time so it'll be Crystal Lake season one episodes one and two if you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it you can find all our contact information at

[01:48:08] podcastica dot com and while you're there please check out our other podcasts such as the newly released Widow's Bay Jason can you talk about that Widow's Bay if you like horror you should watch Widow's Bay because it's freaking great it's Apple TV show about a mayor on a cursed New England island who's trying to bring tourism there and the best thing about it is it's genuinely scary but it's also

[01:48:38] genuinely funny and that's something that I've rarely seen and I don't know if I've ever seen a show that has this kind of humor in it like I love Evil Dead which I think is funny and sometimes scary or creepy but this one is a little bit more like a really smart sitcom mixed with horror which I didn't if you would have asked me before I would have said I don't know if that can work but it's really great and Karen of course is on there and you know what I'm saying it as if I haven't already been talking about

[01:49:08] it on the podcast people have heard me talk about it tomorrow tomorrow I'm gonna go downstairs and find out if we have plans for tomorrow and if not we're gonna go tomorrow I can't wait to

[01:49:38] hear what you think we should also mention if you need a palate cleanser you should fire up Netflix watch the great British Bake Off and then listen to Jamie and Wendy and Greg on Bakedastica Jason's in the episode one yeah the season me Jason not Jason Voorhees and it's it's such I don't know it's good for the soul that show if you haven't given it a chance and you watch it I think you'll understand what I mean it's just

[01:50:07] such a fun kind of heartwarming show it's it's just joy you need happiness joy you need to forget your problems for a little while watch Bake Off and this this group I think is the best they've assembled of bakers that's cool I've only seen the first episode so far so I need to get watch that second one all right that is our show thanks for listening don't get slashed Kirsten Halter off Kirsten K