725: Crystal Lake S1E3&4 "Part III" & "A New Beginning"

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Oh. You listen to me. My Gracie is tough as nails, thanks to me. She can take on anything this world throws her way, thanks to me. Maybe if you raised your kid right, he'd still be alive. Go back to your sad little house, your sad little life, and stay the fuck out of mine.

[00:00:27] Or else I'll call the cops and tell them that a crazy lady broke into my restaurant and started making threats. You're not gonna do that. Oh, what? You're gonna stop me? If I have to? If I have to. Ah! I just wanted to talk! And you had to be cruel! All you people, you just pushed! And you pushed! And you pushed! And you think nobody's ever gonna push back! But you're fucking wrong!

[00:01:26] Hey Zedheads, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Jamie. And I'm Nathan. This is The Walking Dead cast episode 725, which feels like a milestone. Yes. And this episode we're covering Crystal Lake season one, episodes three and four, part three, and a new beginning.

[00:01:46] We had the wrong titles before. Somebody put the wrong titles in IMDB, but they're titling them after the movies. So episode three was called part three. Which makes sense. Yeah. Not 3D? Oh no, maybe they should've done a 3D version. I would have appreciated that. That would've been cool in that very last scene at the end there. Yes.

[00:02:13] I just wanted to encourage people. So we're recording this still before the series has come out. It's, what day is it? Monday? And it comes out on Thursday. But the next episode will be the first one that we will be recording after it's available to everybody. So then we can take listener feedback. So we'd love to have you guys either write in or send us voice messages and just let us know what you've thought of the series.

[00:02:43] So far, anything in particular, whatever you want to say, comments about what we've said on the podcast, maybe things we've missed, anything like that. And you can write to kill her mommy at podcast to go.com. Nice. Or if you want to do the short version, kiki, kiki, mama, ma. Yeah.

[00:03:04] That said, so we'll do, we'll go through one at a time, one episode at a time, like we did last time. So first crystal Lake season one, episode three, part three. What did you guys think in general? I liked it. I liked it for the most part. There's a lot of seems like world building in these episodes. We still get plenty of Pam, but we also spend some alone time with the townspeople.

[00:03:32] And we spend some more time at the camp and it seems like we're just setting up all these different stories. Yeah. When I was watching it, I was a little tired and I was having trouble paying full attention. And so it felt a bit slow. And then when I watched the second time paying full attention that I really got into it, it feels a bit slow, but then there's this totally fucked up, amazing ending for this episode.

[00:04:01] And so that was cool. And you know, I think, um, it's a little weird to think about a Friday the 13th series as being this sort of Watergate style investigation.

[00:04:18] So for me, I have to sort of go, okay, this is its own thing. You know, there's nods to the movies, but this is different. And can I appreciate it on that level? But anyways, um, I, this episode in particular, I thought it was, it's a very much a character study of Pamela and seeing her like starting to wake up to her true self and move on.

[00:04:39] And then, you know, it's the series has given us sympathy for her and fleshed her out, so to speak. So, uh, that's probably my favorite thing about her, about the series is just watching her, which is good. Cause it's about her, you know, and, uh, Linda Cardellini is just doing, I can't imagine a better performance. So that really carries it for me. What about you, Jamie?

[00:05:06] I like that we're getting a little more Jason, even though he's passed on. Um, but we're getting little flashbacks with him and grace. Yeah. And with grace, we still see Pam as a mom because she's kind of latching onto grace a little bit, which I'm interested to see how that turns out. It doesn't look like it's going anywhere. Good. No, it doesn't. We all, nothing good is going to happen to Pam in the long run. Like we know this.

[00:05:33] I mean, if it did, we'd be like, can I give it money back? Cause that's not what we get into this for. Yeah. I hope grace is going to be okay. We know Pam's not gonna be okay. I just hope grace is going to be okay. Um, and I still like Ralph has always been one of my favorite characters. So I like that we're getting more of Ralph. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:05:52] Me too. They really changed him in the movies. He seems like a cartoon character beware. And here he's just full on Vietnam PTSD, you know, work weighty. We did get him being a harbinger this time. Yeah, absolutely. It's just a little bit different flavor. The only thing out there for you is death. I thought about you when he said that in particular.

[00:06:23] I was very excited. All right. Let's get into our points. Nathan, would you like to go first? Yeah, I guess jumping right off of that. I'll talk about Ralph first. Cause well, first of all, he has his, uh, bucket hat and bicycle back, which is great.

[00:06:44] And at least one of these episodes, um, like you said, they're really developing him as a vet with PTSD, which kind of feels like a discrepancy with the Ralph I had in my head for so long. I always saw him as more akin to like a priest who shouts at people walking down the street. Yeah.

[00:07:08] So I think the performance is great. I'm just torn on how it feels different from the original. Yeah. I mean, to me, we're getting different flavors of all these characters. So maybe that's one way to look at it. It's like, you know, just kind of a recontextualization.

[00:07:31] It's interesting to see that, you know, he sees visions and we see them also like presumably of maybe of his memories of at war with bodies littered around him that aren't actually there. That was so gory. Yeah. I mean, when I saw that, I was like, oh my God, this poor guy, that would just be a living nightmare all the time. You know, it made me feel really sympathetic towards him.

[00:07:59] Yeah. And it kind of, it makes me wonder if maybe he'll start seeing other things in that same kind of way. Maybe things around the camp as a vision instead of memories from the past, but you know, who knows? I was gonna say somebody who doesn't know how the story ends, he is being set up as a villain. Right. Who done it?

[00:08:26] Yeah. Like in our, in our who done it's right now, if we're pretending, we don't know what happens and we don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I was thinking as I was watching, like, is he suspect at all for anything? Because they're being pretty cagey about when they show adult Jason, they don't show much.

[00:08:50] It's always blurry or off in the distance. But if you free, I freeze framed it when, uh, that one, uh, girl that went into the diner and then she's running in the woods and she sees something freeze frame there.

[00:09:04] And it looked like adult Jason, right? I mean, it's blurry, but it definitely bald and, and Ralph is not bald. Plus Ralph saw something like we saw what we think is Jason, uh, skulking around spying on Ralph too.

[00:09:20] And then he, um, went off and Ralph looked down and saw his boot prints. So all this to say that I don't actually, and I'm, I don't think you guys are saying this, but I'm just working through it myself. I don't think they're actually trying to make us suspicious of Ralph at all, but it's hard not to be a little suspicious of them anyway for me. But, uh, no, I think you're right. I think that's just, if you know the ending, you know, that.

[00:09:47] He's clear. He's clear. He's in the clear. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the one, I mean, we're jumping into the next episode a little bit, but the next, the officer Dorfman thinks Ralph is the one doing all this. Yeah. Right. So he, I mean, he is being set up as a suspect. We're just, we don't like Dorfman. Yeah. Yeah. I guess not. Um, I like the way the actor, the Dorfman actor is trying to play it.

[00:10:16] Not like a cartoon though. Sometimes when people give him shit, he's just like his performance is a little bit like, well, wait a minute here, you know, a little straightforward. Like you're not treating me very well right now. So I like that humanizes him a little bit, but you're right. He's, he's, uh, not that respectable. Well, he was supposed to be chief, right? That's what his father said. Yeah. I'm curious if we're going to get the rest of that story, if that's just enough of it.

[00:10:45] Yeah. That I guess either he was bumbling or the town was like, no, we're going to take this outsider instead of you. I mean, to me, he seems like an affable guy, but he's, uh, just not bright and yeah, he's jumping to a conclusion about Ralph and that's not good.

[00:11:08] But back to Ralph, um, Ralph is out in the woods using military speak parameters clear. No Charlie's in these woods. Just keep your lid on tight. I kind of knew this, but it looks it up. Just make sure. Charlie is a Viet Cong. They were on the opposing side in the Vietnam war and he's just saying stay sharp. So I think he veers in and out of lucidity. Sometimes he sees the bodies, not all the time, you know?

[00:11:36] Um, and then he skins a squirrel, which reminded me of Daryl. And, uh, and then he heard Jason. Yeah. I guess that was all of his stuff in this episode. But last time he said, you know, there's worse things in the woods than bears. And now then we haven't gotten to it yet, but when you see all these guys, good old boys getting together to go out and hunt bears and they want Ralph to come along.

[00:12:03] And he's like, you guys are fools for thinking a bear did this. The only thing waiting out there is death. And I'm like, well, it was a bear who mauled the bodies, but it was something else that killed them, Pam. And the bears only got to them because she baited them. But when he's saying there's something worse out there, I wonder what he means.

[00:12:31] I think he's conflating Pam and Jason. Maybe he thinks, I feel like he senses Jason. Jason, like in, in these episodes, it seems like when Jason's around, if it is Jason, because we don't know that for a fact yet, but pretty sure people feel something's off. It's a feeling thing, you know? And so like, cause you hear little cricks and animals and things in the woods all the time. But when he makes a noise, people go, what is that? And they get scared.

[00:12:59] I think he imparts a sense of fear when, when he's around and maybe, um, Ralph has that feeling like there's something dark out here. It's a demon. Um, but he doesn't realize that, that it's actually Pamela who killed these guys. And also, I mean, we're looking, you know, this is the prequel. There's the explanation for Jason becoming the way he is. So maybe there's some kind of evil in this woods that is helping Jason become Jason. Yeah, that's a good point. I hadn't thought about that.

[00:13:28] Like he said something about being stuck in the silt and all that, like something supernatural or whatever that's in the crystal lake woods and in the lake that's creating Jason. That'd be interesting to get more on that. I'd rather have that than this midichlorian lab thing that we're also getting. I agree. And I don't, I can't tell you why it feels different to me.

[00:13:54] Because like with the force, if people aren't picking up what I'm putting down here, it's like, if you watched a, was it Phantom Menace and Qui-Gon Jinn revealed that people have these little. Beings inside them called midichlorians or like cell size or something. And that's, if you have more of those, then you have more of the force in you.

[00:14:17] And it just took something mystical and spiritual and turned it into, it took away the, the, that vibe, that spiritual, mystical, mysterious vibe and turn it into something pedestrian. You know, that you can totally quantify that takes the magic out of it. And so same thing. I think they are doing that here, but with Jason, if we find out all the reason why Jason is immortal is because he was part of this lab experiment.

[00:14:47] Maybe that won't be as bad as the midichlorians, but it feels in that direction to me. Yeah. I'd much rather, like I'd much rather it be something supernatural in the woods or maybe a combination of the two. Maybe he was pro, you know, primed to accept this evil. Like I'll allow that. Yeah. That wouldn't be quite as bad. Yeah. I do like that.

[00:15:08] We keep going into the second episode, but this hippie woman, Harmony, she seems to have full on supernatural abilities. And I think a Jason story is a perfectly good thing to bring that kind of a thing into. Right. Like if somebody on The Walking Dead started doing that, it wouldn't feel right to me because the zombies are supposed to be the only thing that's out of the ordinary in my mind. But in a show like this, I think it fits in.

[00:15:38] And there's a lot of versions of Jason. If you go through the movies. Yeah. There's precedent for it. In part seven, there's a psychic. That movie's kind of jokingly called Carrie versus Jason. So maybe they could be planning some breadcrumbs here. Just the idea that, you know, these abilities can manifest in different ways. And then we see that in later movies.

[00:16:04] Everybody keeps asking me if anyone in podcast is going to podcast about Carrie. And I'm like, that would have normally been Remus thing on Strange Indeed, but she's, I think she's going to kind of burn out. So we're not doing it. And I'm, I picked Crystal Lake, but you just said Carrie versus Jason. And I'm like, yeah, they should do that. Then we'll cover it. I've watched the first two episodes of Carrie. And if you like, if you like that story, it's.

[00:16:32] I'm sure it's good with Mike Flanagan. It's Mike Flanagan. Like it can't be bad. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't gotten a chance to watch it yet, but I totally want to. Anyways, let's move on to something else. Jamie, what do you want to talk about? Um, the very beginning where we, you know, we see the Moonshiners cabin and we get a little bit of a backstory, you know, a little more of Grace and Jason, like being friends. And having this little secret hideout and this little cute little friendship.

[00:16:59] And I love, you know, he stores his little gun and his candies in the thing. Um, the gun eventually makes it back to his house apparently. But, um. Yeah. We don't know how, how far back this is. But one thing like, so then we see Grace after the party spends the night at the cabin, which at first I'm like, where's her mom? And then like, oh wait, it's the seventies. And then we find out her mom. Um, and then we find out her mom is a drunk. So probably didn't even notice she wasn't home.

[00:17:29] But. So she goes into the state in this cabin and then we see presumably through Jason's eyes, like looking through the cabin. And that reminded me so much of the first movie, like with the yellow shirt and the, like she had blue pants, not shorts, but it looked, it just felt a lot. Like it was a, it was real big nod to the first movie where the counselors get killed. Cause first you see them through like the, you know, breaks in the cabin making out.

[00:17:57] Like, and just that yellow shirt really cute. I'm like, oh, they did that on purpose. That was a nice nod. I liked that. Yeah. Even the cab itself, it kind of feels like how in the second movie, Jason kind of has his own abandoned cabin in the woods. That looks a little different from this one, but maybe it's the same idea that he just has a place for himself. Yeah. I, as a fan, but not a super fan thought maybe this was supposed to be it.

[00:18:28] This is supposed to be the same cabin. Like a recreation for past times. Well, no, the same place. But you're saying his cabin changes in different movies. Yeah. In part two, it looked a little more helter skelter haphazardly put together than this particular one. Right. But I, you know, I think this is going to be his home. Yeah. I agree with that. Yeah. I don't know.

[00:18:56] I could be wrong, but I just, I'm saying I thought, oh, maybe this is supposed to be where he comes back to and decides to stay. And that actually leads me into my first point. Are you ready to move on or did you have more? Yeah. Okay. I mean, it's just sort of, I love the way this series gives us a new viewpoint of Jason and Pam recontextualizing a monster. And with Grace and Jason playing in the woods, I'm with you.

[00:19:25] I'm glad they're showing more flashbacks of little boy Jason. And they sort of made it like it was caught up to the present time where she's out there kind of worried. And then, oh, psych, they're playing tag. Right. It's a flashback. And that was kind of fun. But that's sort of what this whole series does in a way. Like when I think the very, what's the very first scene when Pamela's watching TV and then somebody's coming from another part of the house.

[00:19:55] And then it turns out it's little Jason. Oh, it's so cute. Sort of just like that. You know, it turns this, what I thought anyway, was this like murder shack into this sweet childhood adventure. Like it came out of Calvin and Hobbes or something, turning it into a clubhouse. It felt like the beginning of Up. Yeah. Because he was in his little like scout uniform thing. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It just suddenly got really cute.

[00:20:23] It reminds me a little bit, if you watch Cobra Kai, how that recontextualized a lot of things from Karate Kid. Just got you thinking of it from a different angle. It's I love that in that show, too. And so we're just seeing this creepy place associated with the terrifying killer. Even if it's not the same one, you can't help but think of that one.

[00:20:44] And now it's a childhood refuge and this place where Jason could escape the cruelty of the world and spend time with someone who genuinely liked him. So that then it would make sense that that would be a place of comfort for him to go back to, you know, which makes it kind of sweet, but also tragic.

[00:21:04] And I think, and I've said this in the last podcast, too, but I feel like this will change how I experience Jason when I watch the movies, which now I kind of want to, you know, and I go back and revisit. I don't even think I ever saw three and four. Yeah. I don't even know if I saw the movie where he gets the hockey mask. I know I saw all the movies after. The later movies. I don't know. I don't even know which ones I saw.

[00:21:31] But then he gets this cut on the branch and man, it looks really bad. And he's just like, no, I don't, I doesn't even hurt. I'm pretty tough. Which to me is about this whole, wherever he came from, this Argonaut thing, right? There's something about him that doesn't experience pain. It doesn't experience pain or maybe just has like some kind of at least slightly super human powers in some way. Yeah. It's already there in some way.

[00:22:02] I like how they're just feeding it through and like little bits. If that, if that's the way they're going with things. Yeah. And then it cuts to her. If I got it right, she went back there. So she kept going back there even after he died. It seemed like, cause she stayed the night there after he died. Yeah. I mean, we don't know if this was her first time back. This was after the party in the woods that she left and left her shoes. It might've been the first time. It might've been the 10th time. Like that could have been a hideout for her too.

[00:22:31] Like, I mean, her life seems to suck at home. Right. And then it seemed like Jason was lurking around. I'm curious. I'm curious. Like his mom's been in the woods. And now we, they made us think that he may have gone home to get his gun out of that box. Like, I'm curious why he hasn't shown himself to anybody in his, that he likes. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:00] I'm just curious about so much about why is he so big? Are they going to explain that? They better. They have to, right? They have to, do you think? I have more on, on recontextualizing, but I feel like that's too long. So I'll come back to it. Nathan, what do you want to talk about? Continuing on with grace after. Her time out there in the woods.

[00:23:24] When they're back at school, you know, Claudette comes into the school bathroom, accusing grace of throwing the clogs through the window. Yeah. And she's super mean about it. Like she puts soap in her mouth. I know. And so it was so satisfying when grace just beats the bricks off of her. And it felt so deserved. This is right out of a karate kid type thing, by the way. She's very much Cobra Kai energy here.

[00:23:55] I was going to say it felt a little, it started to feel a little Carrie like until she fought back. And then I was like, Oh, good job. Grace. Yeah. She fought back hard. Yeah. I mean, her mom said she's making her tough to survive the world. I mean, that's not. There's some evidence. Yeah. Like, I don't know that she's going about it the right way, but it's working. This is where we find out her mom is a heavy drinker. And maybe that's part of the reason she bonded with Jason.

[00:24:24] She knows what it's like to be ostracized or feel alone. So she, you know, bonds with another outcast. Yes, absolutely. I'm still confused by this whole age thing. Like, is the high school and the middle school together? I think so. Because, again, she, when, uh, what's her name? Claudette was like, Oh, she was at a high school party and she shouldn't have been there.

[00:24:54] I think it means they're together. The, the middle school and high school. So I'm like, why is she keeping in the bathroom with these older kids? She does look younger too. But I mean, I don't think it's like that. Like she looks younger. Like when we saw her in camp, she looked way younger. And then. She's wearing makeup now. Yeah. When we see her in school, she's got makeup and stuff on. And like, I could see her as like a ninth grader. Yeah, I could too.

[00:25:21] But I think because Claudette keeps saying she wasn't supposed to be at a high school party, then I think it also makes sense that she's just a year or two younger than them, you know? Yeah. Why is she in the high school? Because they have a middle school there, I guess. Yeah. I mean, it's a small town, you know, you'd think, you'd think maybe they would put things all together. It might just be one school for all the kids. My mom went to a one room school house for a little while.

[00:25:49] When I was a kid, we lived out on a dairy and my school had three classrooms. One for first, second one or like that, you know, grades together. When they or when Grace's mom, Grace's mom comes to pick her up, she smacks her around for getting in trouble at school, even though she was kind of just defending herself and even, you know, defending her mom's, you know,

[00:26:17] almost as if to say, you know, don't talk about her like that, even if it's true. Yeah. I think it could have been that or it could have just been, hey, that's a sore spot. Shut the fuck up. But yes, I do think it could have been what you said too, because I think their relationship is complicated as we learn. It's not as simple as Grace's mom is bad and Grace would rather she just didn't exist. But there is a lot of that.

[00:26:47] I mean, yeah, she's not. Her name's Val, right? Is it? Okay. Val. Yeah. Yeah. She's not very, she's not a good mom. She doesn't take care of it. Like she, if you're going to beat people, beat a kid when she's leaving school. Yeah. Where people can see you and then smack her again when somebody else is in your house, just because you misplaced your money. Yeah. She's awful. She beats the crap out of that child.

[00:27:11] They made a point to show that Grace was the one giving herself cigarette burns. Yeah. And I mean, who knows? Her mom could have done the first one, but I think the implication was she didn't. That's actually Grace. But Grace let Pamela think that her mom did do that, you know, or she's like, did your mom do this? Oh, don't say anything. It'll just make it worse. And I don't understand what that was for because I'm pretty sure that Pamela, even if

[00:27:38] she found out that Grace was the one who gave herself the cigarette burns, that in her mind, she's still seen enough to feel like she did the right thing, killing Grace's mom because Grace's mom smacked her a couple of times and just kept yelling at her and treating her badly. Yeah. I mean, Grace has no reason to think Pam is going to kill Val. Like maybe go to the authorities, maybe get her taken away, but I don't think she has any reason to think her mom's going to be killed.

[00:28:05] I'm just saying, I don't understand why the writers put it in that Pam thought the cigarette burn was from Val, but it was actually Grace because that sort of implies to me that the writers are saying, oh, look, Pam did this under false pretenses. And if she knew the truth, maybe she wouldn't have killed the mom, but I don't think so. I think she would have killed her anyway. I think she was beating her. I don't. Yeah. We saw it. And I don't know that there's that much of a line between burning with a cigarette and just. Yeah.

[00:28:33] It's worse than slapping kid, but not by much. Yeah. You leave a permanent Mark. And I think, I don't know, it's the burning with a cigarette just in lieu of cutting, like just like the, you know, hurting yourself to feel something type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, I mean, I, I never could, I try to like get in the mindset of all the different characters that we cover and see if I can have any inkling of understanding,

[00:29:03] even the ones I don't like. And whenever it comes to someone cutting or burning themselves and you hear the rationale that they just want to feel something or they want to get their mind off their pain or whatever, I can't understand that on a feeling level. I just don't understand it, but I know it's the thing. The whole event between grace and Valerie is the window kind of that helps Pam bond with grace because she's thinking she'd give anything to have her son back.

[00:29:32] And she sees another mom taking her child for granted. And so Pam tries to step in and kind of be a surrogate mother. It seems like she goes to her house and makes her food. And that's where everything happens. We were talking about the cigarette burn and the abuse. Yeah. That was awfully presumptuous of her to start making food in somebody else's kitchen. Yeah. I know.

[00:29:57] Pamela on one hand, she's, she sort of looks like a hero, I guess she's standing up for this kid who's being abused. But, you know, my thought was, wow, you're going over to her house. Like you could make it worse. Like she's saying, if she catches you there, what she did. And you, I also get the sense that Pamela really isn't.

[00:30:22] She thinks she's doing this for grace, but she's doing it just as much, if not more for herself. She, it's her own psychodrama where she needs someone to replace her son that she's lost. And I think she needs, she's like, I couldn't, I mean, she even says the line, just like what I'm about to say. It's something like, I couldn't save him, but I'll save you just sort of to absolve that guilt a little bit, you know?

[00:30:47] So I just feel like it's way more about her own needs than she probably even would admit than it is about trying to help grace because this is a risky way to help a kid who's in a situation like that. And bringing her, Jason's jacket is a little weird. Cause I mean, Jason's smaller than grace. Like there's no way she wouldn't, she's like, but it looks good on you. Uh, it's too small. Like, no, that's right. It's not really a fit, but she's trying to force it.

[00:31:15] That's what that shows the whole, the whole situation. They kind of made it make a little more sense when she was like, you know, I know how mean kids are. You can't wear a ripped jacket to school. Like I get that. Like here, take this for tomorrow. Give me yours. I'll sew it and bring it back. Like that makes more sense than just here where this jacket, that's too small. Yeah. Because she's like, I know you're not Jason, but I really want you to be Jason. So dress like Jason. That's what's going on here. Yeah. I mean, grace did say like one thing that I really liked was like,

[00:31:45] I liked who he was. Like she really saw Jason for Jason. I know that was a nice moment. And yeah, it just, it just makes you realize that if like, what is it? You can't judge a book by its cover. Yeah. Whose turn is it? We were going Nathan, you, me. So it's your turn, right? Yeah. Yep. Um, you know what?

[00:32:11] Let's just stick on this and talk about the ending and that getting what she deserves. Mostly. I don't agree with that. She was such a bit. I don't think Pam went in there trying, thinking she was going to kill her. She tried the diplomatic route. She tried the diplomatic. She tried talking with her and then something snapped in Pam and she hit her with the meat cleaver and dude, that messed up face was awesome. Like the teeth sticking weird. Oh my God.

[00:32:40] It was so cool. And then like, oh wait, we're not done yet. There's a fry that over there. And that's a little disappointed. We didn't see the burn. I know what the hell? But that's very much, uh, here Friday the 13th fans. You want to see a fucked up creative kill? Here you go. Yep.

[00:33:04] And I mean, many, many, many, many, many, many years from now when Jason's in space, there's a, um, liquid nitrogen kill. That's kind of reminded me of that. Yeah. That's a good one. I remember that. I saw that one. But, and then she sets fire to the place, but then she just stands there watching it burn. I'm like, ma'am, you may want to leave the scene of your crime. Like this is a small town.

[00:33:32] And she goes out and throws the machete in the lake in the next episode too. It's like, look around and see if anybody's watching first. But it was very interesting to see the look on her face. She wasn't at all, she was so just, um, uh, what's the word? Self-possessed. Like it wasn't like, oh, oh my God, I can't believe I just did that. She's like, yep, that was the right thing to do. That was really fun too.

[00:34:01] You looked very content. She's like, I especially liked how creative that kill was. I think I might like to do some more of that. She's the OG, uh, slasher fan. Yeah. That was really fun. I needed a hobby. Yeah. I mean, she is messed up in the head. Like I'm not. No, but I like, I think some listeners get, don't like it when I do this, but if I'm really

[00:34:26] thinking about it, like this abusive mother should be separated from her child, I think, or go to some counseling, but not maimed and mauled and killed and murdered like that. I, I, I just can't like, I don't have any sympathy for Pam here, but this is where I kind of, I'd still very much interested in her story. And also I'm looking at this as almost like a black comedy, this whole thing, but just as far as on a real person level, I'd be like, okay, you need to go to jail forever after

[00:34:56] that. Oh yeah. No, she's, she's psychotic. Um, there's no two, but that we, we knew that we watched the first movie. We knew that was going to happen. It's not a surprise. I'm surprised it took this long. I mean, she did slice a guy's face off last time, but they were, that was in self-defense. We had all the sympathy that we thought, you know, in the first movie, like her son died and she's taking revenge for her son. Exactly. If you're okay with that, then you're going to be.

[00:35:25] You gotta be okay with this. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. I was surprised when she walked in the diner that she even tried to go for the generous talking down route. Right. Yeah. And she did. And it did, it seemed like, uh, if that had worked, which wasn't going to work, but if it did, then maybe she would have been satisfied. But I also do think on some level, she's glad that didn't work because really she wanted to step in and be a surrogate mom. Yeah.

[00:35:56] And then of course, Valerie brings up Jason kind of in a derogatory way or she's like, well, she's like, I'm signing my death warrants here. Yeah. Yeah. That was a bitch. There's no two. I'm not defending her either. Pam said her father used to hit her in that scene.

[00:36:18] So I feel like that will come back somehow, but you really do get the vibe that she sees herself as standing up for an innocent girl, like a Dexter, you know? Yeah. Like that kind of a thing. She's not. No. I mean, I have problems with Dexter too, but this is worse in my opinion. I love that show, but I'm just saying morally. Yeah.

[00:36:48] But anyway, okay. My turn, right? Yep. What do I want to, um, so I feel like we're getting pretty definitive evidence that that seminar did make a change in her, in her, uh, I think, and it makes sense. Otherwise why have a whole episode on it?

[00:37:10] But, um, when she and Lee are hanging out a lot, packing up Jason's stuff, just that act itself. I think the seminar helped her feel ready to do that, to let go. And they find the playboy, which is cute. And I think the point of that is- Again, how old is he supposed to be? 11. Because- I'll say from personal experience, that tracks. Is that too young? Are you too young? Oh God. I have a son. I thought I had more time.

[00:37:41] I don't think it's universal, but it's not unheard of. Okay. Unheard of. It does. Okay. As long as you're the guys in this situation, so I'm going to trust you guys. Maybe he doesn't say anything. He's like, I'm surprised you waited that long. No, I'm just kidding. 11 seems a little late, but- Yeah. 10 or 11. Yeah. So they're drinking, and she's getting kind of flirty, talking about sex and stuff, and it was cute.

[00:38:10] And then he's like, oh, I think he said something, like suggesting that the seminar might have- You're different. And it's interesting to me, actually, that it, I don't want to dwell on this too much, but if it did help her, and yet we're painting the guy that facilitated it as a villain, it's like, well, he promised a change in your life, and you're actually getting the results.

[00:38:38] But then you remember that he preys on women who are vulnerable in a suggestible state and then suggests that sex is a part of their development. So I'm like, okay, no, you're a fucking dirtbag. But it does seem like the intended effect is happening. Then you also remember, well, if the intended effect is happening to Pam Voorhees, that's bad for the people around her. Taking the mask off. Anyway. Yeah.

[00:39:04] So, but I do think it nudged her towards just letting go, whatever that means for her. And that means flirting with Lee and also the violence that happens in these two episodes. I'm not sure that would have happened if not for that seminar. Part of letting go is also Lee helping her get rid of some of Jason's things. And just pack them up.

[00:39:33] Like everything seemed to go in the garage. Yeah. I mean, she was talking last couple episodes, like I'm sitting there and it's all surrounding me. And it felt like she was just sort of in a little hidey hole. But now she's like, okay, I'm going to pack this up and move on with my life a little bit. She's not successful at that, but. I mean, you know, your kid's always there. Yeah. In your heart. Yeah. But packing some of this stuff up so you don't have to, it doesn't feel like he's going to come home. Like you're not leaving like a shrine.

[00:40:03] Yeah. Or for her, it just felt like mourning Jason was her whole life. And it's like, can that just be a part of your life? And then can you have some of the other parts back? You know? Well, I think raising Jason was her whole life. Like, you know, he's, he's a medically fragile kid. So you have to be even more present than your typical mom. And I mean, kid, you know, definitely before the age of five, like you really have no life other than your kid.

[00:40:31] She kind of says that even before I lost him, I think I lost a piece of myself, a piece that I really missed. I don't know why it took some fake guru out of Sheridan to make me see that, but I think I'm finally ready to let go start a new life. Yeah. It'd be interesting to see who she was before Jason. Something we haven't talked about, even though it was mentioned, I think in an earlier episode is that Lee mentions that he lost his wife, Alma.

[00:41:01] And that's one of the things I think that they're bonding over in scenes like this is just shared loss of someone close to them. For sure. And he says, Jason lives inside of her, which I got a little chuckle out of because we, we know that's only too real. Jason lives inside of you, Pam. Come on. This is a new chapter. Let's go to Manhattan. No, I'm just kidding. Get some time to go to Manhattan. Then space. Then space.

[00:41:31] Next logical step. But he kissed her and she seemed into it for a second, but then didn't want to risk her friendship because he's the only person she has to rely on in the town. And I was just like, oh, it sucks when you get turned down because you're so reliable. I've been there. I love. Me too. I love that he left with a container of leftovers though. That was just such a cute little detail. I didn't even notice that, but I like it.

[00:42:02] Very much to her. Feeding is really important to her. I think that's why she gravitates towards being a cook and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And like when, yeah, when he walked out with the, you know, seventies Tupperware container, I was like, oh my God, that's so cute. And then they had the discussion about the analogy of sex. It's like riding a bike, heavy breathing, pumping and holding on for dear life. I thought that was really funny. I mean, I thought it was sexy coming out of Linda Cardellini's mouth.

[00:42:33] It was a little. Yeah. It was a little. All right. What's what else, Nathan? Anything else? Yeah. Let's dig a little more into this bear investigation. Because the townspeople gather at the local cafe and there's kind of a funny scene of Dorf asking Rita out to the movies. And she has a funny line, like, it's going to take more than a few milk duds to get my bra off or something like that.

[00:43:00] But she says something about being I'm a grown woman. Yeah. And the people start talking about the bear and it's this big game of telephone about, you know, people spreading stories about what happened in the woods. And it's even made its way to the school kitchen where Pam hears other people talking about it. Because of him. And yeah.

[00:43:26] And Lee confronts these townspeople about taking matters into their own hands because they want to go hunting. And they're really undermining his authority. There's definitely underlying racial tension. That's for sure. We see this even in the first couple of episodes. His sister, Brianna, is a journalist and she's only given the biggest fluff stories at work to work on.

[00:43:53] And even in this episode, when we see Lee doing a crossword in the paper, one of the clues for Martin Luther King is something about communism. I mean, just agitator. I mean, just agitator. Yep. I took that note too. What the fuck? Also, Lee does his crossword in pen. That is a confident man. Bold. I didn't see any letters scratched out either. Yeah. No, that's a confident man.

[00:44:20] Like, I thought that was a nice little detail he does his crossword in pen. But yeah, that's just, yeah, really to add to the, just remind us of what era they're in and how overt the racism could be. Or even, I mean, in a crossword, that's really just embedded in the culture.

[00:44:42] But then, you know, you look around, I mean, it's, I've seen things like that over the last few years and probably all the intervening years too, but it feels like it's just getting worse lately. But yeah, that's a, that's the background that he's having to deal with. Yeah. So that's just kind of what I had about the townspeople in this episode.

[00:45:02] We had the one Barney in the diner who was like, the man gets eaten and goes on this whole government conspiracy thing. He was just like, the man got eaten because we can't hunt the bears. And the government said we can't hunt the bears. And this is all because of the government. We didn't trust the government. Yeah. There's a distrust. And I think that is funny. And I like this environment in this diner where they're all chit chatting and stuff. I wish I did diner like that. That'd be really fun.

[00:45:32] I guess podcasting is sort of like that. But, um, it's also like, uh, the showrunner Brad Caleb Kane said in an interview, you can't talk about seventies film without talking about paranoid seventies thrillers. And what was going on at the time with Watergate and everything that made people distrust institutions. We wanted to give the series a feeling of being immersed in that time of paranoia, looking over your shoulder and wondering what's behind you.

[00:46:01] And so that, um, conspiracy theory thing is about that, but the whole investigation into who these guys are, what company they came from, which we'll talk about for the next episode plays right into that to the sort of Watergate style investigation. I mean, we do get the first details of it here. Yeah. Yeah. So the investigation, um, he says, Dorfman says there's an elite on abandoned vehicle and he's calling their John Doe Elvis, the pelvis.

[00:46:31] And I didn't get that at first until I realized, oh, cause they only found a pelvis. That's the body part. Yeah. Yeah. Was it, um, what did, what did the one guy in the diner say? It was a masticated coccyx. It was partially, there's one mastic, partially masticated coccyx. I was like, that's exactly what you want to hear when you're eating. That's a good band name. Um, but, uh, I wasn't sure at first why they cared about finding an abandoned vehicle.

[00:46:59] Then I realized, okay, they think that this could be the vehicle belonging to the owner of the masticated coccyx. And it does turn out to be that a rental car, a bloody rental car. Yeah. Rented to Carl Egan using the company credit card subsun solutions and all this stuff.

[00:47:22] I didn't catch any of it on first watch, but second watch through pretty much got all the details of this investigation, which is mostly in the next episode. But yeah, so far they have a name for the, one of these two goons who rented this car and what company he was from. Yeah. But the company doesn't exist and there was no car on any plane manifests. Yeah. So it's a fake name and a shadowy company. And there's a car with a bunch of blood in the back.

[00:47:50] Mm-hmm and a continuing, I think, satisfying tension with Lee being, getting closer to Pamela as a romantic interest. And then him getting closer to finding out that she killed these men. Yeah. I'm really curious if it's going to be, he's going to protect her or he's because he's in her house so much, he's going to find something. Yeah. I'm not, it's going to go one of the two ways and I don't know which way it's going to go. Or both.

[00:48:20] Or both. Okay. Nathan got any more? Wait, was that my turn? No, that was your turn. Jamie. Hunting party. Mm-hmm. The, the guys don't respect, you know, this is like a good old boys. Men with, you know, pitchforks and torches going to get this bear that as far as we know has only hurt one person.

[00:48:47] There's not really a reason to go after this poor little bear yet. Yeah, that's true. I did sort of wonder why the chief made such a big deal out of it. Because he didn't want them to kill themselves like they almost did. Was he protecting them or was he, did he care about the bears? I mean, he is supposed to, there's a no bear hunting law and he's the law. So maybe it's just as simple as that, right? You can't hunt bears. But he seemed really adamant about it.

[00:49:16] And one thing I'll say, like these guys were total douchebags in this situation saying, you know, you're not one of us. And there was so much tension there. But also he came up and called them drunk fools. And I'm like, you probably shouldn't start like that. You know, just, I mean, it's not dramatic enough if he'd just come in and they'd had a reasonable talk and then they went home to their homes.

[00:49:44] You know, there's got to be the dramatic tension. But anyway. This felt very, this felt a little jaws coded to me. Like when all the drunk guys are getting on the boat to go out and catch the shark. Might be on purpose. Yeah. Yeah. So it felt, it felt a little like jawsy to me. And for that reason, I liked it. I thought maybe they were all going to, it was just going to, they were going to kill him or something. That's what it felt like. But I'm glad they didn't.

[00:50:12] I'd wondered if one of the reasons he didn't want them to go out there is maybe there's potentially more. Evidence or something. Crime scene evidence. Yeah. That they might kick up or. Yeah. I could see that. Yeah. He's just like, you're going to mess up my investigation. Let me figure out what this is all about. I mean, he, I feel like he thinks he's got all the, the stuff right now. But then we've got these idiots who go out there and touch bear poop with their bare hands.

[00:50:39] And the guy who gets shot in the neck is Enos, which is also the name of the truck driver in Friday the 13th who gives Annie the ride. So I guess it's supposed to be the same person. That would be my guess. Yeah. Right. I could imagine there being a couple of Enos is out there though, but it's a small town. It was a small town. Yeah. And I thought he was dead. Yeah. But that, cause he saw Jason. Even just being shot in the neck right there.

[00:51:08] It seems like it might kill you, but yeah, then he's laying there and what we assume is Jason came up. It's gotta be Jason. And they're playing the. Yeah, I think. And I hope actually that they only play that one. It's actually Jason. That would be cool. They don't trick us with that. You know, it feels like a coded thing. Like you can't break the, the rule, but I could be wrong. Yeah. And again, Jason's grown. So nobody's going to think it's the kid who died last year in the lake.

[00:51:38] Even if you say, Hey, there's a monster out in the woods. Nobody's going to think that it's that kid who just drowned in the lake. Because this is, this is a full grown man that this man has seen. And he said it was a demon, which is just another thing that makes me think it's not just how he looks. It's the feeling that he brings with him. It's also, they're still leaving Jason's intentions up in the air because obviously he, he walked up to him, but he's still alive.

[00:52:06] So he didn't hurt him anymore. Yeah. And as far as we know, he hasn't. I think he threw that clog through the window. Right. Yeah. Although we don't know that maybe grace did do that. We don't know. We didn't see who did it. I mean, she kicked off those shoes and kept running. I don't think it was her. I think it was Jason. We saw Jason there and that's defending his friend. Like he's not hurting anybody. Yeah. He's scaring them. Yeah. He's, but he hasn't hurt anybody. Yet. Yet. All right.

[00:52:36] Should we move on to the next one? Or did you guys have any more notes or anything about number three? I think you've sold me on the idea that, you know, after he doesn't really feel anything from his cut. That maybe whatever they're doing at this or they were doing at that institution. So maybe some Terminator-esque program. Maybe that's part of why he's growing so fast as well. Yeah.

[00:53:03] Maybe he was in danger of dying because of some medical condition. So she volunteered him for some secret new therapy that was actually creating a super soldier or something like that. You know, I mean, or maybe it's, was it the last, you know, last of a style? Like it's not her kid. She was working there and felt bad for him and broke him out.

[00:53:32] But I could see now they're chasing after. So if it was something like either one of us said where, but they're turning him into this super soldier or something like that. And she's like, I don't like what this is doing or where this is going. So I'm going to take this kid away and take care of him. Probably something like that. I think we solved it. I feel like he's an 11 type of character. Yeah. That's right. All right. Crystal Lake season one, episode four, a new beginning.

[00:54:02] So how did you like this one? Was it about the same? I feel like this one went faster. I feel like the pacing was a little, I think the last one was like a little more sped up. We learned a lot of stuff. And then this one, we're starting to see the stuff pay off. I'm thinking what I asked myself is we're watching this Watergate style investigation seemingly ultimately to uncover the origin of Jason.

[00:54:31] And I question whether it's enjoyable to watch a Watergate style investigation in a Friday, the 13th prequel and be whether we want to see some kind of a scientific explanation for Jason. So those things are on my mind as I'm watching this. And if I put all that out of my mind, then I enjoy it a lot more just for what it is. It still was a little bit slow for me, but it was pretty good.

[00:55:01] I think I like the first episode a little better. Yeah. I mean, how this all wraps up is going to depend on how I feel about it. Yeah, that's right. Me too. For sure. It's how they stick the landing is going to be, is going to determine how I fully feel about it. So I'm just trying to enjoy the ride right now. That makes sense. Yeah. Well, think if episode three is an episode that focused a lot on the townspeople and their treks into the woods.

[00:55:28] And this one seems more focused on the camp and everything encompassing that on top of the investigation that Lee's doing. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. Now you're reminding me of some things in this episode that I thought were actually pretty interesting. Well, is it my turn? It can be your turn. Okay. I think it was my turn. I'll start with Pamela sort of transforming even more.

[00:55:56] Because if that seminar nudged her into deciding to move on a little bit and, you know, go flirt with Lee and stuff. And I think the killing of Val, Grace's mom, that pushed her even more into her own version, twisted version of self-actualization, I guess. Maybe that's a bad way to describe it. But, you know, just she immediately, it activated her even more.

[00:56:25] She goes right over to Lee's for a booty call afterwards. That was crazy.

[00:56:58] Except when he's killing. And then he's just free, you know? And this, I felt like that vibe a little bit here. She's like, oh my God, I'm just feeling so good right now. One thought I had was, was she going there to create an alibi? Ooh, yeah. She does that. She's got ulterior motives a lot of the time. But I felt like if it was that, it was this other thing too. I think something was unleashed in her.

[00:57:26] And she, I mean, it seemed like there was some genuine emotion coming on right there. Yeah. I hope that's been filled. But I don't know if she's using that. Yeah. And then Lee, you know, Lee tells her, you're one of the most passionate women I've ever met. Like she, he sees that fire in her too.

[00:57:48] So it's, it's also interesting to me that if this is true, that killing Grace's mother awakens something sexually in Pamela because of all the, the whole sexual punishment or judgment in the Friday the 13th movies. I just find all that really interesting. What else? Nathan? So I'm going to talk about our first hippie chick.

[00:58:17] I don't know if we get her name. Yeah. Oh, first one. That comes into town. I don't remember getting her name. I don't think we get her name. Yeah. She comes into town. And the first thing I think is look at this red shirt walking in to be our first victim. Um, she kind of reminds me of Annie in the first movie hitchhiking into town and then making her way to the camp. I think it was visually very similar to on purpose to remind us of Annie. Yeah.

[00:58:45] We got some nice visuals of the town, like how the town set up and stuff. Like we've watched her walk for a while. Even down to going into the cafe and talking to people. But like she got out of that car because, and it looked like Barney from the diner from the last episode. Like the guy who had the government conspiracy theory. It looked a lot like him. Um, but cause he was trying to get her to pay for her ride. Let's go. Little hand. Like she was standing. Yeah.

[00:59:14] She was standing up for herself and got kicked out of the car in crystal lake. And it seems like she denied a ride in the cafe because she doesn't want to have more of that. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. The guys were way into her. Yeah. Cause Ralph was too. That was a surprise. She is talking to her. I was like, Oh, is this, do we meet his wife? Nope.

[00:59:44] I don't think he has a wife in the show. No, he doesn't. At least as far as we know. Cause you mentioned something in the movie, right? They talked about Mrs. Ralph. Yeah. But I feel like they're wreck hunting that. Maybe it happens in between. Yeah. There's a lot of years to get through. Stuff can happen. But this girl, um, obviously she, she doesn't take any rides.

[01:00:10] So she, she just wants to get to her friends who happen to be working at the camp, at least for a while. Uh, probably presumably to get some money and just get back on the road. But on the way, walking through the woods, she ends up in a bear trap, which I presume is Ralph's. Cause he's been setting those out. And this was frustrating scene because she tries to yank her foot out before trying to pry it open.

[01:00:40] Yeah. Yeah. That was some good gore though. I mean, it made me cringe. I liked it. I knew it was going to snap back on her ankle. Still. Still tensed up for it. It would have been disappointing if she hadn't tried to pull it out. And then if she hadn't not been able to open it, if she just pulled it out, then it would have been like, what am I watching here?

[01:01:08] And this was the most right of the 13th thing that we've gotten so far, like a woman running through the forest. Yeah. Except I have a whole point about this, but about it sort of gives these young women more of a modern attitude about not accepting being objectified and things like that. Right. And just a little bit more of a modern attitude in general.

[01:01:37] And so when she's out there, like in whatever that presence that I think comes when Jason's nearby, she senses it. And what does she say? I got a knife. That just felt like modern to me. It was good. I mean, I figure if a woman's like, she's been hitchhiking presumably before this, but she's been dealing with all kinds of types. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jason's gathering like a Bigfoot reputation. Yeah.

[01:02:07] Because we saw him. We saw him like between the trees. Mm-hmm. We think. I freeze-framed it. It was Jason. And he's an adult, or at least a teenager, an older teenager. But is he the one who did this murder? Well, assuming murder. Like, because we hear, you know, she screams and it cuts to black. Yeah. And then while we see that body at the end of the episode hanging, is that supposed to be her? Yeah.

[01:02:37] She's definitely dead. She's dead in Scandon. Oh, that's her. In Ralph's fridge or cold room or whatever it is. I didn't. Yeah. I didn't know. No. Okay. Yeah. Clearly that's. Yeah. I was like, who the fuck is that? That was the one part I was so confused by. But yeah, it's her. And so, yeah, you got to wonder who did it. And did we hear the kiki ma, ma, ma, ma during this part? I don't remember. I don't remember. Because it might not be. Maybe Ralph did that, you know? Maybe Ralph did it. Maybe Jason.

[01:03:07] Maybe there's a third thing going on. Yeah. Like, we don't know. Maybe it was Jason. Maybe he started killing. Yeah. Like, you know. I feel like it was either Ralph or Jason. But you're right. It could be a third thing. Yeah. Those of us who, you know, are coming into this watch because we love Jason and we've watched Friday the 13th movies are going to think it's Jason. Mm-hmm. People who are just watching the show are going to think it's probably Ralph because we've got. Mm-hmm. Reason to believe it's Ralph. Steve Brown might think it's Ralph. No.

[01:03:36] But everybody knows Jason's a killer, though. Right. But, you know, the town thinks Jason's dead. So. Mm-hmm. But then could they both be a red herring? Like, could there be a whole nother thing going on in this town? There could be. Maybe it's not Jason. Maybe this guy that we keep calling adult Jason is not actually Jason. Maybe he's not. Maybe Jason's still at the bottom of the lake. We don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Because we don't understand why he's big. Right.

[01:04:07] Maybe it's Jason traveled back from the future after he went to space. Yeah. I'm not positive either of our two main suspects are the ones who killed her. I wonder if the kills we don't see could be Pam when, like, she has the idea that Jason's talking to her and we just haven't seen that part yet.

[01:04:36] Like, when we see Pam kill, it's just Pam. But maybe when we see the offscreen deaths, maybe it's Pam as Jason. I, it could be, but I would expect a buildup to that, you know? You know what I mean? But I mean, we're at the halfway point of the show now. So if Jason's going to kill, he better get to it. Although I guess she never feels possessed by Jason. It's always, she feels like he's talking to her. So. Yeah.

[01:05:06] I mean, I think you said if Jason's going to kill, he better get to it. But this is about Pam right now. So I'm okay if it's like the last episode, but it seems like it should happen by then. But, but, um, cause we have bloodlust, but, um, I mean, we watched it's based on a slasher movie. You're supposed to have blood. This is what you watch these things for. Yeah. No, I'm, I'm, that's what I'm saying. All right. What else? Yeah. I'm curious. I'm just real curious how this murder is going to play out.

[01:05:35] Cause we saw, you know, she's dead. She got chased in the woods. She's dead. She's hiding or she's been hidden in a pile of meat. It doesn't mean Ralph did it because he sees bodies everywhere. He might not, he might've seen her and just assumed it was. A hallucination. A hallucination. They sort of set us up for that. What you just said, because he said, oh, you saw the bodies too. He seemed relieved when a Dorfman was, they had gone down into the bear den and found the

[01:06:05] other bodies. And he told for whatever reason, told you don't do that. You don't just blurt it out. But anyway, that's Dorfman told Ralph about it. Oh, you saw him too. He seemed relieved like, oh, okay. That one wasn't my imagination, which I think you're right. That sets it up so that there could actually be a dead body there and he wouldn't even notice. Yeah. It's a real, real interesting plot point. Like, I don't know that we've ever had this before where somebody is having hallucinations of dead bodies. So when they see them around, they don't know if they're real or not. Yeah.

[01:06:34] Like that's, that's a real interesting. But that is his property, right? Dorfman is eager to bring him in because he thinks he's guilty. And so he went and then he was all half cocked because he got turned down by Rita and upset and drinking in his car. And he's like, I'm going to go get that guy. That's what happened. Right. So he went to his property and found the dead. Yeah. He couldn't get the, um, the water bed to work. Right.

[01:07:00] And had to take his frustrations out. My poor crazy Ralph. It's interesting that whoever saw Enos left him there, but whoever saw this girl seemingly killed her. I mean, it's two different situations though. Cause this girl is on her own. There was, as far as we could tell, there was nobody else around with Enos. There was a guy with an earshot cause we heard him say, Hey, I think I got him.

[01:07:32] Are there, are there encounters like that with Jason sometimes where he doesn't kill? He, he walks away. It's usually he shows himself. Like you see him go through like, you know, like Bigfoot type sighting things. I'm trying to think. I'm not. But where he's like that close to somebody. There's been a lot of movies. There's been a lot of murders. Um, but yeah. Cause if he's not. I mean, there's always, I mean, you know, we've got the final girls who survive.

[01:08:01] It's generally a final girl or. Yeah. But they're running away. That's why they survive. Not just sitting there. Sitting duck. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, cause you sometimes get somebody who got attacked and then comes back for a second round, you know, you think is dead and then they come back, but just left bleeding to tell somebody about it. I'm not sure. Or. Yeah. It feels like. Even just the two movies that we watch, Jason tends to find people.

[01:08:31] Who are either walking off by themselves or they're distracted by having sex. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mom does the same thing. Yeah. If I had to guess, I just don't know. I don't know who, if it was him that killed her or somebody else. And was he. I guess him, but I don't know. Was he coming up to kill Enos? Yeah. And then heard one of the other guys.

[01:09:01] Like, was he going to kill him or was he going to help him? Possibly maybe. Cause this one we know is like the two things we know. Quote unquote. No. We're Jason. We're when he walks up. Now he's not the one who shot him. His buddy's the one who shot him. It's Jason walks up to this guy on the ground. Who's hurting. Like maybe he's trying to help him. Maybe. Who knows? And that he threw the shoe through the window. Like we don't know. Jason has done any murder so far.

[01:09:31] We know Pam has, but we've watched her. I don't think she's in the woods. I don't think she's in the woods randomly killing people right now. I'm going to talk about this thing about a modern sensibility about retextualizing some of the scenes in Friday the 13th. Like when we talked about that movie, I mentioned, I had a point about some things that feel quote problematic from today's perspective.

[01:10:01] And I feel like this episode in particular had a lot of awareness of that and looking at it through more of a modern lens, women pushing back. Like just to remind people in Friday the 13th, this character, Annie comes into town very wide eyed and just, you know, happy to be alive.

[01:10:26] And this truck driver Enos offers her a ride to get closer to crystal Lake. And when they're walking out to the truck, he goes, all the, all the girls up here are going to look as good as you. And she just smiles and goes, I don't know. You know, she, she seems to either enjoy, you know, his remark, or at least is in the habit of just like, yeah, this is what we have to take from guys. So I just, you know, try to not let it bother me or something like that.

[01:10:55] Then he puts his hands on her thighs to push her up into the front seat of his truck, kind of on her ask without asking. I mean, she doesn't need it. She's perfectly capable of getting out there by herself. And it just felt really skeevy to me, but I wasn't sure in 1980s, if it was supposed to feel skeevy. I kind of think so. Cause there's the whole sex thing going on with Friday the 13th, but it's still feels like different than you would see today.

[01:11:23] And the stuff in this episode, I feel like is an answer to that. Like this girl coming into the diner, she, she won't have it. She first, she's telling the guy in the truck, you know, he's like, come on honey. And she's like, stop it. Stop it. I thought you hippie chicks were into free love. She goes, I said, hands on the wheel, asshole. And then she goes inside and, um, asking about her friends.

[01:11:51] And one of the guys says a bunch of unwashed types came through in a, in a VW van. And the other guy doubt any of them lit up a room like you though. So I think that's supposed to deliberately be a similar comment. And she gives him a mocking look like, okay, yeah, thanks. Shut the fuck up. And then he offers her a ride, but she says no, you know, and probably, yeah. Cause she just had this bad experience. Um, but then there's, uh, Barry and Claudette,

[01:12:21] the two more like preppy types or whatever they're, they're in the car. And he shows her that joy of sex book that he stole from his aunt. And she's like, gross. And he goes, what? I thought we could try out some new positions. I told you, I'm not going all the way anymore. Again, it seems, I mean, this is part of the plot. I think she's getting religious and there's this anti-religion guy and she's just, they're weaving that into the plot,

[01:12:47] but also it felt like a girl turning down sex is maybe a reaction against something from the movies, or I don't know if I want to say against, but it's just like a counterpoint. Like clearly it's like, Oh, we're showing this in a different way. Cause Friday the 13th is about promiscuous teens, but here's a now non promiscuous teen. And, um, she says, pastor Ryan said, bad things happen when we indulge in sins of the flesh. Come on,

[01:13:17] babe. You don't believe in that crap. Oh yeah. What about your car about last summer? So it seems like she's getting like chased in reaction to events with Jason, uh, like the, his drowning and then the smashing of the window of her car. That's what she means by what about your car about last summer? So she's turned to God in reaction to that. And Friday the 13th felt to me like teens being punished for sex,

[01:13:43] but she's becoming chased in advance to avoid punishment from God. So that's different. And then he goes, okay, we'll do, we can still do hand stuff, right? You want to do hand stuff, then put a ring on mine or have fun making do with yours. That's another little thing. I feel like that's a modern thing to say that phrasing do hand stuff. And someone else said, I mean,

[01:14:13] you asked the older stuff. Yeah. I mean, maybe, I mean, they, they did all that stuff back then, you know, we, of course, you know, our generations didn't invent that kind of stuff. It was happening back then. I guess that's more of a nitpick. I think if they're using modern language, someone also said that's like two hours away. And I remember when light came along, it was like in the nineties or something. It wasn't in the early eighties. That came from the, yeah, the Valley girls, like Valley girls. I think that, yeah, that's just in vernacular that you forget. Yeah. Had a time period.

[01:14:42] Like whenever I see people high five in period pieces, like in the seventies, I'm like, no, we didn't have high fives back then. Um, I mean, one thing culturally back then was like the feminist movement was huge back then, like the late sixties and seventies. Yeah. The feminist movement was really, really big. Like women finally got the ability to have their own bank accounts in the seventies without having to have a husband or a dad open it with them. Like, so I think, you know,

[01:15:12] women standing up for themselves, especially a hippie is not out of character for the time. I think it could fit into the time. That's a good distinction. Cause I'm sort of trying to present it. Like this is anachronistic. Like it doesn't make sense for the time, but I think you're right. It can make sense for the time. And maybe even, especially in the, with hippies and women's independence and things like that. Um, so maybe it's more of a reaction to just the Friday the 13th movies, which were a bit exploitive. And they're like, no,

[01:15:41] we're not going to be like that. We're going to show women who are not allowing themselves to be exploited. Something like that, you know? Yeah. Make them a little more. I mean, they've got the time to make the characters a little more real instead of just, you know, 15 minutes of screen time total before their heads get chopped off. But it's not just more time though. It's different. It's like, I really do think that this hiker is supposed to be, uh, remember Annie? Well, we're going to show you a different version where she doesn't put up with guys stuff. Which I,

[01:16:11] I appreciate that. I think, I think it's a good way to tell it. Yeah. I think it's a good thing to show, but yeah, like, cause my, yeah, but there were definitely women who were fighting back in the seventies. I mean, there were women fighting back all the time. Like people have stories about their grandmothers doing stuff, you know, you know, my grandfather did this one, you know, one time hit my grandmother and the way she reacted, you know, like people, women have been standing up to men forever.

[01:16:35] It's just a matter of enough of them and it making the stories and making the rounds. Like there's always women who will stand up to men and stand up for what's right and protect their bodies. And so I don't think, I don't think she's terribly out of character, but I do see the opposite of Annie. Yeah. I do see the opposite of Annie and like, that's a good way to put her. I like it. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think you're absolutely right that it's not, I probably wasn't even clearer in my own mind about it, but now that you're helping me see it better,

[01:17:03] it's not that this portrayal of the early eighties is out of character. It's just different from what they did in those movies, which were a bit exploitative. You could argue. Yeah. I mean, if you really felt for the characters, you wouldn't be as excited when you see the blood gushing out dramatically. It's all a little cartoony. It's all a little cartoony. I'm just more talking about like we were saying sexual objectionable,

[01:17:33] rectification of women and like harassing, sexual harassing language in a way presented for our entertainment. Like, look, these women are being objectified. Don't you enjoy that? And now this series is like, Hey, look, these women are, there's characters trying to objectify them, but they're pushing back. Don't you enjoy that? And I'm like, yeah, I think I like that better. Yeah.

[01:18:00] I'm still stuck on Barry going through his aunt's underwear drawer to find that book. Who wants that from your aunt's house? And then, um, with Dorfman and Rita too, they're in, you know, they're having trouble with the waterbed. He can't get the rhythm right. And he keeps smacking his head into hers, which is pretty hilarious. And then she just calls it quits and says,

[01:18:30] you shouldn't have to force the thing to happen. Well, I'm not, I wasn't talking about me. And I just think, again, this ties into this whole undercurrent of women, not letting themselves settle or be objectified. You know, she, she sort of decided, Hey, I'm worth more than this too. Yeah. Or maybe that's a bad way to put it, but she decided that this wasn't the kind of thing she wanted in her life. Yeah. I mean, she said it earlier in the diner when she was like, look, I'm a full grown woman. You need more than milk does.

[01:19:00] And yet she still let it get to that point. And I don't blame her. I mean, she was sort of objectifying him too. She's like, yeah, I forget what she said about him, but, but what about those jeans? You know? So she was pretty much, she said it was so funny. She's like, she wants, he goes, yeah, she said that we needed to bring another couple on our date to pick up the conversational slack. And, um, you know, it's just like, you're not a fit together. And that's kind of what she says. You know,

[01:19:30] she was trying to force it, but the admirable thing is that she realized, you know what, this is not working for me. And I'm, I'm not, he, we're both just in for the sex, but I need more than that. Yeah. Cause she, I mean, we saw her go away with the dentist at the hotel. So she's, you know, sex for sex sake doesn't seem to be outside of her story. Yeah. But when she clearly doesn't respect Dorfman, I mean,

[01:19:59] and we can see why, but I'm saying, so then she chooses to go, okay, if I don't respect a guy, then it's not worth it to just be with him just for the sex. Yeah. And if it's not good, you're going to kick him out the door. Yeah. Right. Maybe it was good sex. That might be a different story. That's a very good point. People have been known to stick around for that. Yeah. It's like, what the fuck, man? I'm only in this for the sex and he can't even do that. Right. I'm out of here. Yeah.

[01:20:29] I love that. They throw a water bed in like, that's such a period. I had a water bed when I was a kid. I didn't have those connotations cause I was just a kid, but, um, I loved it. I used to like rock myself to sleep every night. Like I was on the waves. My dad had one. And my brother stuck a freaking butter knife in it and popped it. And then he was like seven years old. Then he stuck a cup underneath to try to catch the water. Oh, gross.

[01:20:59] I need a big cup. Yeah. Anyway. Okay. Nathan, what else do you got? Let's talk about the camp at large and the hippies that are there now. We find out that grace is staying with the Christie's. Apparently they've done foster work before. Um, the hippies are all working there for about a year. And they're painting up the walls of very seventies imagery.

[01:21:27] I guess that's their work that they're supposed to do. Right. Because they said they're fixing up the camp. So I think that's how they're doing it. At first I thought, Oh, aren't they sort of defacing the property? But, uh, I think that's what, um, what's his name? Christie wants. John Christie. Yeah. I think he's just giving them jobs. Like, yeah, he seems to have a good heart. Yeah. Like, you know, keep it. We get that foster. Yeah.

[01:21:56] Fostering is not, fostering is not easy. And then these, you know, hippies show, you know, as they call them the unwashed, but they show up and he, you know, he's like, you know, I wish they did a little more work and a little less grass, but he's like, but they're just trying, you know, this world sucks and they're just trying to make it a little bit happier. Like, I can't fault them for that. I'm gonna, I don't think he's going to put them in charge of kids, but letting them help fix up the camp. I mean, other than grace, obviously. He says, I can't fault them for that. Right.

[01:22:26] And Pam doesn't answer. And I thought that was pretty pointing. Cause she looked like she didn't agree. Like, no, I don't like these guys. Yeah. Putting, putting a little bit, I don't know. You can't fault somebody putting a little bit of happiness into the world. Like I can. And we'll talk about that for sure. Well, first Pam is going to work at the kitchens again, presumably to be closer to grace. Yeah. Cause she was initially,

[01:22:56] you know, didn't want anything to do with it. Reopening. Yeah. She said, she tells Christy, Oh, I, you know, I'm sorry. Uh, for what I said. And I just want to be here to be closer to Jason or something. But I think again, ulterior motive. It's really just to be close to grace. Yeah. I agree. And these, and these people, these hippies take an interest in grace as well.

[01:23:22] They get her help with the painting and the main girl, her name's harmony. And she introduces friends with names. And she introduces friends with names like shutter bug and space ghost. And at this point, I'm thinking, Pam, please kill somebody there. They're, they're, they're reading auras. They're playing with crystals. Get them out of here. One of them takes photos. That shutter bug, uh, you know, surely that'll come back, you know,

[01:23:54] maybe he'll take a picture of something that he's not supposed to, or that might get Pam in trouble. Mm-hmm. Um, maybe he takes a picture of Jason. Yeah, maybe. And space ghost is anti-religion. And I'm sure that will have something to do with, uh, Claudette suddenly becoming super religious too. And they, they also do these, or at least harmony does these psychic readings, which I don't normally believe in,

[01:24:21] but in a fictional world at a fictional camp, it's possible that a seance is real in this world. I mean, it has to be the way she knew everything. Yeah. Has to be real. And she knows, she knows things that Grace couldn't have known or told her earlier. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And the camp, I mean, again, we're back to crystal lake. Maybe there's something in these woods that makes stuff extra powerful. Like, even if she had a little bit of this before,

[01:24:51] or even if it was a fake act before, maybe doing it at the camp, at the lake is making it real. I loved harmony. Honestly, like these, these characters were too, uh, much caricatures for me. It really took me out of it, especially with the goofy names and the way they all were the repartee and everything.

[01:25:19] But just thinking about them, like the way everything that she was saying, like, Oh, I, I can tell that you're an artist. Well, when I first saw that, I thought that's presumptuous, but then you learn that she has psychic powers. So I think she's being genuine, right? And she's like, come paint with us. And then when she's saying things like, uh, art is a creed, not a craft. Do you agree to let your soul speak? You don't judge what it wants to say. Okay. I could see going like gag me with a spoon hearing that, but really the sentiment is really nice.

[01:25:49] And she's being really encouraging and supportive of grace and grace loves it. And, uh, just looking at it on that level. I mean, Hey, I go to burning man. My hair's blue right now. Like I, I probably closer to that kind of stuff than not. I just think it's really nice to be like, Hey, let's just be a little more free and, you know, express yourselves in art. And, uh, that kind of, you know,

[01:26:15] just try to focus more on love than hate and that kind of a thing. So I, they're probably all going to be hacked to bits by the end of this, but, um, you know, I, I think it's pretty cool. I don't like how much they feel like characters, but, um, I like the vibe. I like the vibe too. Yeah. And I like, like taking pictures of the, like a pan being like, you're so beautiful. Like you're so great. Like just seeing the beauty and things, things. And yeah, yeah.

[01:26:44] They're also, they're a little too free in the sense of getting grace drunk. Yeah, maybe it's the eighties, but yeah, you're right. That's true. But a little bit reckless. I also think that, like you were saying earlier that now that Claudette is thinking about religion and she's chased now, I think Barry's going to fool around with one of the hippies. Yeah. He was looking at them and I'm like, Hey, they're young. Fine.

[01:27:15] If you know, two consenting people. Yeah. I don't think Barry's into Claudette for much more than the fact that she put out. No, but I also thought that, um, this woman harmony too, she, the actress brought a lot to it. It could, I, I think I could have found her very annoying if not just the genuineness that the actor portrayed it with. Like, Oh yeah, I really am. Like, I really do think that you're,

[01:27:43] you seem cool and I want to bring you into our world. And I don't know, it just seemed nice and inviting the way that she was portraying it to me. Yeah. And then it was a really stark contract when, uh, contrast when she was then embodying Grace's mother. Yeah. I was like, yeah, that was intense. And that's how you knew it was real. Cause that was definitely, there's no way she would have known that. Exorcist or something. Yeah. That was like some exorcist, like voices coming out of me. Shit. That was. Yeah.

[01:28:13] Do you want to talk about that? What'd you think Nathan about the seance? I was with Pam to a point, you know, the power of suggestion, you know, Grace is talking to him all day. Maybe there's some things that they could have picked up, but then that was the thing that kind of tipped it over the edge of it. Potentially being real is she knows things that Grace couldn't have told her. And that,

[01:28:38] that kind of goes back to what we were saying at the beginning about there is psychic ability in this franchise. So maybe this is just setting up some precedent for that. And it's definitely, it's tearing a wedge between Grace and Pam. I loved that Pam was there and they're doing the seance. And I think Pam is like, all right, I will humor Grace, but this is fake.

[01:29:05] And it has a potential to harm her, making her think that her mother saying things. And then, then as it started to go on, she's like, oh shit, this is actually real. And it's going to harm me because she's going to finger me as the one who killed her, you know? Yeah. But when she had enough, I, it wasn't, it was interesting to me. Pam said, okay, that's enough. It wasn't like a moment where she thought that, um,

[01:29:35] harmony slash Val was going to say, she killed me. You know, she, it was when she said, they started saying they loved each other. I love you. And I know I was too mean, but I really love you or whatever. And, and Grace is like, mommy, I love you. And that's when she said, that's enough. Yeah. She doesn't want that bond, you know? Well, I thought it was, she wants to be the mother figure. Like, and we've established that Val was not a good mom, but like when she, it was kind of sweet when she was like, wait, you have friends.

[01:30:05] You never had friends except that, you know, that one boy, but she didn't have to put Jason down, but like, she was excited. She was excited that her kid had friends. Cause like as a parent, you get real excited when your kid makes a friend, like you, you know? Yeah. I think the mom was pretty shit, but it wasn't in humanly. She was a human being. And so there's some complexity in there, but from what we saw, like I said,

[01:30:33] I would think if she had lived that she would either need to have that kid taken away from her or have some serious counseling or something like that, you know? But I still, I, I, I would think there's probably some actual love in there and some good moments that they probably had together and stuff like that. But here before long space ghost is just going to be a ghost. When she first came out and said, Oh, that looks like space ghost. I forgot there was a guy named space ghost.

[01:31:02] And I was thinking space ghost, coast to coast. I'm like, no, it doesn't. Yeah. Me too. I was thinking that too. And then I realized what they were talking about. And I was still like, I'm not so sure. It looked like him either. No, but I mean, sometimes you say stuff for a kid or to, you know, to, you know, to get your friend a little bit. Right. We've all done that. All right. What else, Jamie? Um, they found a bear den with more bodies. We talked,

[01:31:32] do we talk about that already? No, not extensively. We talked about it a little bit, but like we, now we know that there's another body. Um, unless it's a freak with three legs as. That was pretty good. Another left foot. Oh, that means two bodies or some kind of mutant. And, you know, that's when we learned when they go talk to Ralph, because they see Ralph's footprint, cause it's a combat boot and Ralph's the one wandering around in combat boots. And, um,

[01:32:03] you know, also they said it had an ax wound in the skull and then you see him chopping wood. Yeah. Yeah. They see him chopping wood and that's how we know now it's murder. It's not bears. Cause. Bears don't generally throw things through your skull. Um, so, uh, and then when they go and talk to Ralph, I love that Ralph asked for a warrant. Cause he's like, I served my country and now I'm crazy because I serve my country and it has to mean something. Not that he didn't want them poking around. He's just like, look,

[01:32:33] you got to do due process. Cause that's why I put my life on the line and I'm crazy the way I am right now. Like I thought that was total sense. Yeah. I thought that was a really, really good little thing that got put in there. And it could make him seem suspicious, but still make a lot of sense with him being completely innocent. Like it's believable for sure. That is like I was saying earlier when I was,

[01:33:00] I tried to get into somebody's into the characters heads and understand them. And I can't, I just haven't been able to do that with like self harm. But with that, I totally can get it. Like I went through all that and then I'm not going to get to keep the rights that I fought for. Fuck you. Get out of here. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, and he said it nicely. Like he was, it wasn't even fuck you. It was just, no, I put my life on the line for law and order. We're going to follow the rules. You can come back with a warrant and you can look around,

[01:33:32] but I'm not making a precedence of now. He probably doesn't know that there's a dead body hanging in his. Yeah. He's like, it smells funny in here, but I think I'm just imagining that. I mean, he's got deer meat and stuff hanging. So it's not like it's the only dead thing in that room. I do like that. They rock, paper, scissors to see who goes to the den first. Yes. And then,

[01:34:01] that's just part of the whole investigation. So we really get a lot with them following the corporate trail and Lee's sister. What's her name, by the way, Brianna, Brianna, the reporter looking through court records. She finds, uh, she's looking at a lawsuit with bellflower corporation, a class action lawsuit. And then it's, uh, Jensen versus Feldman are the two lawyers.

[01:34:31] She circles Feldman who hasn't practiced in 67. And then she found, um, articles of subsun, subsun, which is the fake company that the rental car guys credit card was registered to, um, saying that he was their lawyer, Noah, Noah Feldman. And he was also the lead counsel for bellflower in this big lawsuit. So.

[01:34:59] So then they were sued for selling tainted sea rations for the U S army, but then she looked through other, uh, loss suits. So anyway, Oh no, wait. So she's tying this shell company,

[01:35:17] but subsun to this big chemical conglomerate bellflower and thinking that they have this shell company to do the things that they don't want to be publicly associated with. Right. But then she finds a case that didn't go to court, but there was a pre trial deposition where some research scientists testified against bellflower and mentioned subsun by name. And she's like, they're whistleblowers.

[01:35:46] And so that case never went to court. Maybe they settled, but that whistleblower lives in Wilmington, two hours away. So she's going to go talk to him. It's like, it's pretty complicated, you know, but then, um, she's excited. Cause this kind of story would be good for her career as a reporter. And she wants Lee to go talk to his contacts with the city police. To ID the bodies. So she can then ask, ask,

[01:36:12] cause we think these bodies were hired by subsun to kill Pam or bring her in or something. So that, uh, Lee can ask. No. So if they know the names of the guys with the, of the bodies that she can ask the whistleblower, if he knows them and what else he knows. And then they actually find out the name of one of, Oh, that's what happens. He goes and talks to his contact, Jimmy. And he tells him that the fake name that this guy used,

[01:36:42] Carl Wiggins was an alias for Benny Muttrux, the ex army special forces, dishonorably discharged, moved to security work and then vanished. But probably we think he's a private corporate goon now. And that's the guy that had the a hundred dollar shoes. Yep. It's just going through all that. I wonder if that helped any listeners, if it clarified anything or if it was just as confusing as watching the show, or if they already knew all of it and it was pointless to say it, I'm not sure which. I think it was good to go through it.

[01:37:11] Cause you got it in pieces. So having it all in one, in one thing I think really helped. And then we also got a little bit of a little bit more of what's going on with Lee and why he left. Yeah. A little bit like there was some scandal and he took the blame for it. And he acts like he just took the blame because he was black and it was easier to blame it on him. But then the other guy says, you were, you were dirty too. And he doesn't necessarily seem to totally disagree with that maybe, or I'm not sure actually.

[01:37:41] Yeah. Another mystery, like, Oh, another dark past thing. And he's not allowed to go back and use those contacts ever again. They don't like him. Yeah. I think it's a good thing. You, you tracked all that because that's the hardest part of the show. I'm for me to keep track of is all the company background stuff. Yeah. I mean, basically I just think, I mean,

[01:38:06] that goes along with what we were saying before that maybe there was some kind of an experiment that Jason that added to his ability to withstand pain or whatever. We don't know quite yet, but it was on the hush hush because of what they were going to do with it. Or I think maybe like a super soldier thing. And then Pam took him out of that prematurely or something like that. And now they're chasing after her. That's what it seemed like to me. Something like that,

[01:38:36] which I mean, Brad Cable, Brad, Caleb Kane is the showrunner. He also worked on welcome to dairy. And if you saw that there was stuff with the military trying to harness Pennywise and it feels similar to that. Kind of. Yeah. Anything else? Yeah. I just, uh, I realized that, uh, Brianna's desk partner, I think his name is Nate, which is disappointing.

[01:39:08] Whenever like a doofy sidekick guy in the show has my name. I'm like, come on, man, give me someone cool. He wasn't, he was, he could, it wasn't worse. He wasn't as bad as Dorfman. Yeah. Do we have Dorfman's first name? It could still be Nate. Nate Dorfman. Oh man. Watched ends up being Jamie. Hey, I said, Jamie, I guess I have the cool name then, huh?

[01:39:43] Butterbug. That's right. That's what my name tag is going to say next week. Yeah. But I mean, stupid, like, you know, late teens, early twenties kids who are trying to be cool and like alternate, you know, alt or anti-government or whatever. They change their names to something stupid all the time. Like I had a kid in college who went by the name random and that was the only thing he would respond to. Like that's funny. Yeah.

[01:40:10] Jenny wanted to name our kids random. And I was like, no, I don't think so. For real? Yeah. Either Darwin or random. I was like, how about Nico? I like Nico. Darwin's kind of cool though, but that's because I'm a science nerd. Yeah. I think that's why she liked it too. All right. Any notes? The cutting to the kids singing at the end. I thought was pretty cool. We've got the guy freaking out after seeing a dead body.

[01:40:39] And then you hear the camp song being sung by kids. Like that was a good. Love that. Yeah. That was real good. Yeah. That's an, that's a fun thing about this show. And I've, I feel like over the past couple of years, I've used this word so much in podcasting that maybe it signifies a trend, but juxtaposition. I see a lot of darkness just juxtaposed with light, you know, squid game with the kids games and the killing and things like that. It makes it that much. Fall out. It makes it that much creepier.

[01:41:08] Anything else, Nathan? I'm curious. We don't really know how much time passes between episode to episode because, you know, on the last episode, Claudette's really mean to Gracie in the bathroom, but in this episode, she tries to apologize. It seemed pretty quick. All of a sudden didn't show her like finding religion or anything. And all of a sudden she's changed. Yeah. She like, she's had these conversations with her pastor. Just, I don't know if it was over the weekend or.

[01:41:39] Right. But I've, I feel like not. Well, yeah, I think it was nine months after Jason's death. We skipped forward. Right. And then now Pamela saying, oh wait, she was saying years, but maybe that was just. Yeah. Along with having Jason too. So yeah, I'm not clear on it either. I don't, I feel like it's not a lot of time though. I mean, you know, there's certain things that are obvious. Like obviously she went, you know,

[01:42:08] we ended episode three with the fire and then she goes to Lee's house. Straight over to Lee's. That's right at the same time. Like some of this ancillary stuff. Yeah. The timeline's real. It's not obvious. I'm curious. I'm not, you're not the only one who's confused about these things. But weren't they. Wait, I can't remember. Okay. Wait. Okay. So summer, like Lee's, I mean, Lee Barry was saying, I thought we were just, weren't going to have sex during the summer.

[01:42:40] Yeah. I don't know, man. I'd have to watch it again with that. Only the school. It wasn't during the school year. It was only during the summer. I think was his plan. Okay. So now it's summer coming up. Yeah. And she's still like, no. So we're still, the camp has not opened. Yeah, clearly. So that's, yeah. So it's still not been a full year since Jason died. Either that, or it's been like,

[01:43:06] I also think it's possible that like Jason died during that one camp. Um, and then they waited a full year and now they're opening it up again. Like, I think that's within the realm of things that have been discussed. Like, I'm not sure either way. Yeah. I feel like, yeah, I'm not totally sure either, but I feel like it's the next year. And Pam was surprised that they were already going to open it up. Can't you just wait one more summer?

[01:43:34] So I think it's almost one year after. Which is possible. Yeah. But like I said, they're not very clear about it. So I'm not. Yeah. What do you think, Nathan? I'm willing to just coast on vibes and see how it plays out. I just had two quick ones. One, I feel like I probably said this a lot, but I'm very much enjoying Linda Cardellini's performance in this, that I just think she's doing a really good job at making this character.

[01:44:04] That's, uh, interesting and engaging and kind of fun at times. Like when, um, shutterbug was sort of flirting with her, show me your gooey goods. And she showed her brownies and he said she had a, what did he say? A Julie Newmar thing going on. And she kind of laughed and that's Catwoman, by the way, for people who don't remember from the Batman 60 series, but, um, and then being just sort of believably fucked in the head too,

[01:44:34] with all that going on. Like she just, she was really nailing the performance. I hope she's happy with how this thing turned out. And then last, uh, there was an interview with Brad, Caleb Kane, where he mentioned, I wish I had it here, but he said something about using a lot of practical, practical effects. And cause I had just assumed they would use a lot of digital, but no, it's Friday the 13th. They know their fans.

[01:45:02] So I think just thinking about that kill of, uh, Val of Grace's mom with her jaw hanging down like that. I looked at it the second time. I'm like, yeah, that's practical. And, uh, I think it's, it looks better than the effects in the original movies because so much time has passed and the art has advanced, but it's cool. That is practical. Yeah. It looked great.

[01:45:33] All right. That is our show. Episode seven 25 as usual. Thanks so much for listening. Everybody. I hope you're enjoying crystal Lake. Um, um, next episode, crystal Lake season one, episode five and six, the new blood and kill them. Mommy. If you want to write in or leave us a voice message, you can send it to kill them. Mommy at podcast. I could. Dot com. But you have to send it to kill them. Mommy. Yeah. At podcast. Dot com.

[01:46:02] I love that you did that. That's fantastic. You can leave comments in the podcast. Good discord or in our Facebook group links in the show notes. Yeah. Come and join our discord. If you're not already in there or the Facebook group, both are places where we put up comment posts for all the shows that we cover. And if you comment on those, most likely they'll be read and responded to on the podcast, but also we just chat in there about all kinds of stuff. Yeah. I keep popping in on all the comment around all the posts about this show. That's cool.

[01:46:33] Yeah. I see. I've noticed that. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. Don't trip into the fry mat. Cassie Austin.