726: Crystal Lake S1E5&6 "The New Blood" & "Kill Them, Mommy"

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmm. Podcast Control! It won't work. There's too much blood. They'll look everywhere. Even the lake. They'll find that. They didn't find who? They didn't care about me. What can I do? They'll take our Gracie away.

[00:00:30] The ones who really did this? Her? It's their fault. They should take the blame. Kill Them, Mommy.

[00:01:27] Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Jamie. And I'm Nathan. This is The Walking Dead Cast, Episode 726. And this episode we're covering Crystal Lake Season 1, Episodes 5 and 6, The New Blood, and Kill Them, Mommy. Kill Them, Mommy! It's kind of weird because we watched the first four of these before the show had aired

[00:01:55] and not many others had seen it because we had screeners. And now we're up to six, but I bet a lot of people have now seen more than us, especially because of this freaking cliffhanger. I'm sure anybody who got to that just watched the next one like we all wanted to but didn't. It's no fair. And I've had friends like all weekend like, oh, did you see that? I'm like, shh, shh, shh, shh. Don't tell me! I'm only up to episode six. Yeah.

[00:02:25] So I'm going to be watching that tonight. Me too. But anyways, let's get into the first one, Season 1, Episode 5, The New Blood. We thought since there are plot summaries out on Wikipedia now, we'll read it before we get into our thoughts. Who wants to do the first one? Jamie? How about you? I can do the first one. Sure. All right. Dorf arrests Ralph for Willow's murder.

[00:02:49] Though Lee doubts his guilt while Dorf's father, Hamish, urges him to go over Lee's head and charge Ralph. Harmony's group plans to return to their commune and Grace begs to go with them. The camp opens for the summer. After learning that Barry has slept with Harmony, Claudette tearfully confesses to Pamela what she and Barry were doing when Jason drowned.

[00:03:12] Brianna tracks down Dr. Landau, a physician named in the lawsuit against Bellflower, who warns her to drop the story. At a drug-fueled memorial for Willow, Grace takes a large dose of LSD after Harmony leaves with Barry, wanders into the woods, and sees Jason. Barry reconciles with Claudette, and then the two go to the boathouse to have sex, where Grace attacks them.

[00:03:37] Pamela arrives to find Grace in a state of shock, finishes off Claudette, and promises to take care of Grace. So what do you guys think of this one? It feels like Friday the 13th. You like that? Yes. Yeah. It was really fun when we got to the scene where it was right out of the movie. Like, oh, oh, oh, we're in the movie now, kind of. Yeah. Well, like I saw her, I saw Pamela earlier and I'm like, ooh, she's in the blue sweater.

[00:04:06] I was like, ooh, she's wearing the blue sweater. I'm like, that's pretty cool. And then later I'm like, oh my God, she's in the blue sweater. What'd you think, Nick? Yeah. I'm feeling great about these episodes. And I think maybe this episode, more than any other, my thoughts are kind of scattered because there's so many plot lines just interweaving with each other. Mm-hmm. I'm glad we all, we received the good news that God has a heart on for our souls.

[00:04:39] So, you know, good news for everybody. That was really inspiring. I also learned how to properly row a boat. I, uh, I liked it. I liked a lot of things about it. There were some things that didn't sit well with me.

[00:04:57] And, um, this show is doing like, it's interesting because it's trying to add some complexity to the story of Friday the 13th and order sort of expand it to a series and also maybe make it. Um, good for modern audiences and turn it into this psychological story of Pamela Voorhees origins and everything.

[00:05:23] And I admire that idea, but sometimes I wonder if adding the complexity is taking away from the power of the simplicity of just a crazy slasher. You know what I mean? Uh, personally, those are the kinds of stories I like better. The ones that are more complicated and nuanced and things like that.

[00:05:49] But I'm just not sure this is living up to the promise of that for me quite it's enjoyable. I am enjoying it, but there's so much good TV out right now. And I, and I'm podcasting about a lot of it that I, for me, it's not quite measuring up to that level. You know, it's still good though, but I know that it kind of feels like someone gave someone an assignment. Make it okay. Make a story about Pam for he's okay. I'll make the best story I can versus cause this, that is actually what happened.

[00:06:17] Like Brian Fuller originally had was going to be the showrunner of the show. And then I think he, his budget was too big. So they fired him and brought in, um, Brad, Caleb and Kane and said, pitch us an idea for Pamela Voorhees. So he's sort of, he's been a fan of Friday the 13th, but I don't think he had a particular story like this in mind. So he had to come up with something and it feels like a really good, um, attempt at that. But still, it's not like someone had a story they were burning to tell.

[00:06:46] It's more like figure out a good story for this, you know? And maybe I'm being too critical, but I just, um, as I'm watching through that, those are the kinds of things that are coming up for me. I'm just, I'm trying to reserve, like I've said from the beginning, I'm trying to reserve judgment until it's over. Like I want to see how they stick the link. I should do that more too. Yeah, you're right. Like, I want to wait and see how they stick the landing.

[00:07:10] Cause I mean, like, yeah, we had a cliffhanger at the end of, well, at the end of the next episode, but we know certain things. Like Pam's not going to jail. Right. But the cliffhanger was what is all this stuff? If she's going to tell the truth with this Argonaut program and all that, right? That's what I want to find out about, even though I'm not sure I'm going to like it. I want to know what it's all about.

[00:07:40] So anyway, Nathan, would you like to go first? Yes. Um, let's just start off with, uh, our man, Ralph and Dorf where the episode begins. And of course we knew Ralph was innocent, even though that body was in his shed. Mm-hmm. Um, how sure are we? That is Jason. 99.9. At the beginning of episode five.

[00:08:08] I think it's still up in the air. Cause I mean, by the end of episode six is definitely not, but I think at least for this episode, it, it kind of asked the broader question of if it is Jason or the demon, as people say, whoever is using Ralph shed to store the body. Um, you know, could somebody potentially be framing him?

[00:08:32] Obviously we know, you know, cause we saw the next episode that, um, it seems like Jason shadowing him and learning how to survive and hunt and trap and things like that. But wait, I, are you, I'm confused. I thought I just heard you suggest that it wasn't Jason who killed the woman. I think, no, we know that it is by. Okay. Because we watched two episodes. Yeah. So you say it's a hundred percent sure after watching number six. I think so. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:03] Okay. I, I, I would, unless I'm missing something, I feel like we didn't get a hundred percent assurance, but it sure seems like it's not. It seems like that. I don't see who else it would be. I mean, yeah. If you're in a world where you haven't seen any of the other movies, you don't know what's coming. You don't know who Jason is. Yeah. This demon in the woods is likely what did it, but we haven't seen that demon kill. He's just shown himself. So I think we're. Yeah.

[00:09:33] But we're getting all the clues machines and the faces and things like that. Like we're. Yeah. We're getting there. Yeah. I think because we think that it's Jason most likely. Um, I think this scene is more interesting because of. Dorf's development. Cause it feels like he's torn. Um, in this episode. I mean, he, he feels. Ralph's guilty.

[00:10:01] But he also believes in the chief. And that's kind of Dorf's dilemma for this series of episodes. It's like he's, his dad is the devil on one shoulder. And Lee is the angel on the other. Hmm. And, um, I feel a little bad for Dorf in this episode, which I was surprised by. Cause it feels like he, he doesn't have a clear sense of direction to go forward.

[00:10:26] He's like, you know, he, he clearly admires Lee, but his dad's always in his ear. And it seems. Unfortunately, like he's siding more with his dad. Um, in these episodes and like, even outside of work, we see him, you know, like try to build a life, like flirting with what's her name? Rita. Yeah. And it backfires. So he just seems kind of stranded.

[00:10:54] We see him, uh, buy some Spanish fly. But who did Dorfman Dorf. Yeah. Isn't that like roofies? I thought it was like hormones. Oh, I thought it was supposed to like attract the ladies back in the day. Oh, was it? Okay. Cause I just remember Bill Cosby talking about Spanish fly. So I don't know. Yeah. I mean, it was something that like, like in the seventies, like I thought it was a cool thing that they added.

[00:11:22] Like when he went, like after he, he, you know, restocked his dad's beer and cleaned up everything. He went downstairs into his bedroom and opened up a package and he had Spanish fly. And I thought that was a really funny thing. Cause he would totally be someone who had Spanish fly and throwing stars in their bedroom, in their basement bedroom of their dad's house. You just thinking about what you just said, Nathan, it's, it's hard. It's hard to like this guy or sympathize with them at all.

[00:11:52] I think just because of his attitude, he's just playing it like, well, you don't know anything, blah, blah, blah. But when you really think about it, well, a, you're right. You see that scene of his father in his ear. And for me, that did give me some sympathy for him. And also when you think about it, he found a woman skinned alive in crazy Ralph's shed.

[00:12:13] So I think that's good reason to put him at the top of the suspect list, especially when you've never seen a Friday the 13th movie, you know? Um, absolutely. In fact, I, I would, wouldn't be surprised if in the real world, he would just be condemned from that moment forward, you know? Um, but, uh, he's just so emotional about it and not open to any other possibilities.

[00:12:39] And so, and Lee is a person who knows that sometimes you can get blamed for something, even when you didn't do it because people are biased against you. That's what happened to him. It seems like, I think in Newark, he probably didn't do anything wrong and we're going to get the story of, he keeps saying, you know, there's more to it than what you've heard. So that's my sense of it, but also just as a black guy, he knows what it's like to be blamed for things unfairly, unfortunately, cause racism.

[00:13:09] Um, and so, um, anyway, uh, I do, I, I, I think. Yeah. Dorfman's an interesting character cause hands up going the wrong way for sure. By the end, this is next episode, but when he's in his office yelling at him and calling him up at II, I'm like, you should be fired right now. You know, you should just be fired on the spot.

[00:13:36] Well, I mean, he should be fired for going into a cabin without a warrant, especially from someone who asked for a warrant. Cause everything he saw is now inadmissible based on all of my cop TV shows that I've watched. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. But I still stand by what I'm saying that if you found a woman skinned alive in a crate in a guy who's clearly got some issues in his shed, then it makes sense to think, you know what?

[00:14:04] I think this might be our guy, but he's just not handling it. Well, yeah, I mean, I kind of understand Dorfman's idea. Like the reason why he's after Ralph, like there was a footprint. He thinks Ralph is crazy. And then he found someone's body hanging there. Now he should not have been in there. He should have waited for the warrant, which they probably could have gotten in that town without too much trouble. And the body would have still been there cause Ralph didn't think it was real. Yeah.

[00:14:30] He's just, he, he, uh, how do you say it? He operates off of, he's compulsive when he's, you know, feeling triggered. Like he went over there because he felt emasculated by Rita. Yeah. And that's like very unprofessional. You gotta have control over yourself, dude. Learn how, but he's, like I said before, he's just not, he doesn't have a shit together.

[00:14:55] Uh, what about Ralph telling Lee, you know, there's something else in those woods. And you've mentioned that a couple of times, Nathan, that do you think he had some kind of a supernatural ability or something? Yeah. I don't know if anything will end up coming of that part of it. Um, I, I think I'm just still waiting to see what, like, if he has visions of other things and it feels like, uh,

[00:15:24] Lee, uh, knows that there's something more to it, but he can't quite put his finger on it. Yeah. He said, whether I believe you or not, it's how it looks that matters or something like that. Yeah. He, he needs proof, but he, but just suggesting that, you know what? I think you might have a point there, but we got to go with what the, that person hanging in your shed or something like that.

[00:15:49] But I mean, I, my take on it is everybody I've said this before, but who's near Jason seems to be creeped out, even if they can't see him. And so it just, it sure seems like there's just a sense of dread around when he's there and, uh, people, it wasn't, it's not just Ralph. Like Ian has called him a demon and just other people seem to get freaked out when he's nearby.

[00:16:18] Um, so Ralph living out there has more exposure. So maybe that's it, but I actually didn't catch what you were saying about maybe he's following Ralph around just to learn how to survive out there. I think you're probably right about that. I think that's more in the next episode, but I didn't, it's okay. We can go back forth a little bit, but yeah, he said something about, he's like a baby learning, learning or whatever. And I didn't understand why he said that.

[00:16:48] But now that you say it, I get it. He's just figuring out, I guess how to, I guess he needs to eat. Yeah. I'm wondering if that's the only evil in the woods or if Jason is now embodying something that was already there. Right. Because Jason wasn't evil. So the evil would have to come from somewhere. Maybe it was already there or maybe, uh, it has to do with this Argonaut thing. Well, I don't see how, but yeah.

[00:17:16] Cause like Pam was saying to the little boy who was scared and counselorless, um, you know, Jason was a good kid. Like we'd all be real happy if he was the one there. And can we talk about the fact that there's already rumors of Jason in the woods? Right. I love, I kind of love that. Yeah. The boy who drowned. He's in the woods.

[00:17:39] It'd be so funny to hear, like, you're at camp and you hear like the one I always heard was, and there was a bloody hook hanging from the window or I forget the whole story. Yeah. And then one of the women's like, well, that person is actually very sweet. And if the guy with the bloody hook was here, you'd be happy. That's what I'm saying. And then, but then the kid was like, but I saw him. Right.

[00:18:06] And like, you know, with the camp kids, we don't know if they're locals. Like, I don't think this kid was a local because Pam wasn't like, Oh, Hey Jerry, how are you doing? Yeah. Yeah. Jason. Yeah.

[00:18:35] But like last year, a lot of these kids knew Jason. Yeah. It seems like a new kid. So it has to be like a new kid and the other kid, you know, to be, to be scared of him. Not that the other kids weren't like mean or whatever, but yeah. I don't know that anybody makes sense. Cause even if the other kids were like, there was this kid and he was funny looking and he had a weird head and, and he drowned. And now he's in the forest.

[00:19:02] You wouldn't have the context of, well, we knew him and actually he was fine, but we picked on him. It would be more like what? That sounds terrifying, you know? Yeah. And working there too, like she would have known this kid. So I feel like this kid is a new kid to camp and there's probably some other new kids, but it's an interesting thing where we're like, it was just a year, maybe two ago that this happened. And a lot of the kids at this camp knew Jason. Like, that's a weird thing to think about. Yeah.

[00:19:31] I'm sure Pam takes an interest in this kid just cause he's a young boy alone outside at night. And she knows what it's like to just have a young boy. Maybe she sees Jason in him a little bit. I mean, that very likely. And also I just, I think she is a caring soul.

[00:19:51] I think things go a little wrong, but I think she is like, she does seem to genuinely care, especially about kids taking care of, but like, she takes care of Lee. She cooks for him and stuff. And she did the same thing with grace taking care of her. Yeah. Not just making her substitute. Like it was while she was taking care of a kid who needed to be taken care of. She's like, Oh wait, you can substitute for my dead son.

[00:20:17] Like, it's interesting with grace because when grace came on the scene, I was wondering, okay, what, what is this character doing here? What's how does she fit into this puzzle? And now we see, well, she was an outcast like Jason and befriended him. Um, but then she became sort of a substitute for Jason in Pam's eyes. Right.

[00:20:39] And then we found out that she, not only was she an outcast at school and couldn't fit in, even though she really wanted to, she put makeup on and everything. And they, uh, still bullied her, especially Claudette, but that her mom also didn't provide a loving space at home. She was mean to her and everything. So she's just this kid who wants to fit in, to feel loved, to feel accepted.

[00:21:04] And she found that with these, this hippie group, especially harmony, just gave her so much love and appreciation. And, and it was based on at least a little bit of reality, like appreciating her artistic talent, which she did have. So she just really, um, responded to that. Like, Oh my God, yes, this is what is the thing I've wanted in my life the most. And I'm getting it now.

[00:21:32] Uh, but it could have been Pam too, because they would fit together like a puzzle to Pam needed to be a mother figure and grace needed a loving mother. But, but, and Pam was there, but it didn't work for grace.

[00:21:51] And I don't know if those hippies hadn't shown up, it would have worked maybe, but I get the feeling not because Pam's just coming from this weird place. You know, there is some probably genuine nurturing instinct in there, but also it's kind of twisted. Like I was saying last time, she's maybe doing it more for herself than an actual place of caring. Although I do agree with you.

[00:22:15] She does seem like a genuinely caring person, but there's other stuff mixed in there too, that I think grace can sense, you know, like she said this episode, maybe the next one, Oh, this is too heavy for me. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah. Cause she was, I think that was when she was packing up. Cause they're going to take now we know grace is 13. Um, yeah. Which is seventh or eighth grade is 13 usually. Yeah. So they're going to take her across state lines. Like I'm glad that was called out later.

[00:22:45] Good nap. Yeah. I was like, wait, you can't take her out of there. Cause, um, but I do think like to your point, like when harmony told her, Hey, I love you. That is very possibly the first time anyone's ever told grace that they love her. Mm. That's true. It also feels very fast. Yeah. I feel totally vindicated for hating these people last week. I don't, I still like them.

[00:23:12] Um, I mean, you shouldn't even like when the guy offered acid to her and harmony said right away, uh, you don't do it if you don't want to. I'm like, okay, well that's something, but it should really be no, you can't give a kid acid. So I agree there, but I, I, I still have a nuanced take.

[00:23:37] I think if, uh, grace would have went with them and they ended up at this commune, she probably would have been better off there than she's ever been in her life. I think there's a decent chance anyway. Yeah. I mean, she probably would have still continued to do drugs a little too early and stuff, but I think, I do think harmony genuinely cared for her. Um, this is, I mean, you know, we're talking hippie people like they're, I mean, I don't know any personally from the seventies, but from, you know, watching Woodstock documentaries and stuff

[00:24:06] like that, you know, just jump into love right away. Even if it's, I mean, I don't think there was anything sexual going on with her and grace. Like it was just a very platonic, like this little girl needs something. I have that something like we just link for whatever reason. Like I've had, you know, you know, you have like friends, kids who are like, like your nieces or nephews, like they feel like family, even though they're not. And I feel it was like that kind of relationship.

[00:24:35] Like, yeah, there was, if there would have been some indication that harmony was flaky about it, then I'd feel differently. And maybe the fact that she just, uh, took acid asked grace to be her, uh, guide or sitter or whatever. And then immediately went to the van with Barry, maybe that you could count that as being kind of flaky. I don't know. I'm not sure.

[00:25:01] Uh, but if there was something a little bit more where you felt like, oh, she actually wouldn't have been there for her, then I would be a bit more judgmental, but I didn't get that vibe and may come down to just the way the actress was playing it. But I feel like they really made all these hippies so much caricatures and that I think they probably did that so that we wouldn't feel too bad when Pam slaughtered them all, you know? And it worked for me.

[00:25:29] Like they felt cartoony, but, um, I was glad harmony got away. And, um, and I still think that, um, they're not so bad personally, but I think, uh, we don't always have to agree on everything. Yeah. Totally fine. All right. Were you surprised that Barry is the one that confronts them about grace being 13?

[00:25:56] Um, not necessarily cause he's more traditional and they're more, oh, let's not. Always just feel like we have to go by what we've always done, you know, but more free with free with things. Yeah. I don't think they're thinking about the rules. Like harmony was like, oh, I forgot. Yeah. We can't take a kid across state lines. And then one of the, I forgot which guy was like, wait, you're a minor. Like thought that she was. Yeah.

[00:26:25] I don't know how you could possibly think she was 18. So he may have thought 16, but still. Yeah. That was a little goofy. Yeah. But also shows how, how do they like, yeah, that's a shutter bug in all his wisdom is like, you're a minor, like she's 13 going on 23 or something. Yeah. And, uh, she looks like a little kid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:52] And when you, when harmony's asking her to come with them, how is it like, oh, whoopsie Daisy, you're actually a kid. You have to stay now. Like that didn't even cross her mind before Barry pointed it out. I mean, it was the seventies. They do a lot of drugs. Yeah. And they don't follow a lot of rules. Like they're very free spirit. Yeah.

[00:27:17] Their whole point is we're a reaction against authority and which at that point meant the Vietnam war. And we don't want to have war. We want, we don't like the way that if you follow the system, it leads to separation and violence. We want to reject that and go our own way. So they're just really marching to the beat of their own drum about a lot of things. Yeah.

[00:27:46] Cause they're going, was it to Canada they're going or did it, or is that just where they think she ran to, but they were going somewhere to start a commune. Yeah. I think there was already a commune. They were just going to join their friends there or something. Yeah. But they, they were going to have their own society. Yeah. That's yeah. Basically a commune is a place where it can be self-sustaining so you can, don't have to interact with the outside world too much.

[00:28:11] You're not dependent on it and you can sustain yourself like a farm and stuff. I had a friend who grew up her first six years in a commune. Stories. She has stories. Yeah. She has a little bit of stories, but again, she was only, you know, she was little when they left, but yeah. I mean, you hear like a lot of times those things turn into cults and, uh, but I, I, I also think there's a lot of fear around anything that's unfamiliar that doesn't conform to what

[00:28:41] most of our shared reality is, you know, and maybe some of it's not so bad, but I don't know. I've never lived in a commune. So I don't know. Do you think that this is the last we've seen of harmony or are they, she going to get pulled over? I would be surprised if it's the last we see of her. But also she can't tell her story for us to get where we're going.

[00:29:11] You mean Pam can't get caught? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess you're right, but she's out there. She's out. But like, if you had someone coming to murder you and you made it to, let's say it was Canada for, I can't, I know the cops are later worried that she's going to Canada. And I don't remember if that's where they said the commune was, or I'm just putting that in later. Um, but there, they were on their way to a commune.

[00:29:39] Like if she's got enough money and gas, everything's been packed into that van. So she's got everything that they've earned for the last couple of weeks that they were staying there. She's got everybody's everything. Um, for the most part, like if she can get herself to that commune, if I'm her and I'm now in a safe place full of love and understanding and all of that, I'm not leaving to possibly go get killed again. Unless you can make a phone call. Yeah.

[00:30:09] She wouldn't want to, I wouldn't want to risk this killer. I mean, she's when I'm jumping the gun here, but when she saw Pamela stabbing one of them repeatedly and then I think it was harmony and maybe Plato ran off in separate directions. That was fucking intense. Like that is not something you will ever forget.

[00:30:34] And if I ran away from that, I would want to tell somebody about it as soon as I could just to try to save anybody else from getting that happened to them. Yeah. But I mean, if she makes it to her commune and she's just talking to the people there, I don't know that it gets out. If she doesn't call the authorities, then my opinion on her changes. Yeah. Oh, you're, you're a bad person, you know? Oh yeah. Maybe she was your, I'm not saying you're wrong.

[00:31:02] Maybe she is the type that would do that because she's a flaky hippie and maybe, maybe she wouldn't, but I feel like she's a caring enough person that she would want to try to tell somebody who could actually do something about it. Yeah. And maybe nobody believes her because she was on drugs and. Right. Yeah. So we'll see. I mean, we'll see how that plays out, but like she can't be believed or she can't tell her story. Mm hmm.

[00:31:27] I think one of the big takeaways from that scene where she leaves grace alone is that it makes grace feel like she's going to be abandoned twice. Yeah, that's true. And that's why she took the acid, I guess, just like, well, I don't know exactly why, but it had something to do with that. So much acid. Yeah. Three hits. Three hits is a lot. That's a lot.

[00:31:53] One hit would be a lot for anyone, not to mention a little kid. Doing it for the very first time with zero tolerance, nobody watching her. Yeah. She handled it rather well. Yeah. Considering. The actress did a pretty good job too. I knew as soon as she took all those tabs that she would see Jason in the woods and there

[00:32:17] would be plausible deniability about whether or not it was real just because she took all those tabs. Mm hmm. Yeah, that's yeah, you're right. Then she could experience some horrible, horrific stuff and then still go on in the series and not. It wouldn't sort of kill the plot like you were saying about Harmony where she would have

[00:32:44] to tell because she can just be like, I don't know what I saw. Yeah. Yeah. And she, she heard somebody calling her name in the woods. Grace. Yeah. Now, whether that was real or in her head, we don't know. I think it was real. She was watching her fingers thing. I think it was real because, uh, why have a hallucination of that in the show? You know, he's showing up everywhere else. Why not just have him show up here too? Yeah.

[00:33:14] I mean, we didn't hear the. That's true. We did hear that by the way, when grace. We didn't know yet was going up the stairs to kill Claudette and Barry. So it was the first fake out. I, I consider it not a fake out if it's Jason or Pamela, because that's what the movies in the movies, but. But I mean, if she's doing the killing. Mm hmm.

[00:33:40] And we thought it was Pamela doing that killing from the first movie, but again, we only saw it from the killer's eyes. So. Yeah. And it, maybe it was like, we hear Jason saying, assuming it's real, we hear Jason saying, grace, maybe he tells her to do this. So it's exactly the same as Pam doing it. So I will allow. The kiki kiki ma ma ma for that murder. If we're going to get super nitpicky, I would say there's no reason for her to be hearing a variant of kill them mommy in her head.

[00:34:10] If people don't know that, by the way, that's where a kiki kiki ma ma ma comes from. That it's kiki kiki. It sounds like ch ch ch. Ah, ah, ah. But it's kiki ma ma ma. Kill them mommy. Yeah. But if he's using, if he's influencing her, cause like. Yeah. It's more just the Jason sound. Right. So maybe it sort of counts, I guess. And can we talk about this plot twist that it was grace and not Pam killing the counselors for having sex?

[00:34:41] Yeah. At what point did you realize that we were going to see the opening of the first movie? Like how far into the scene? Yeah. I think I didn't get it until I started hearing the church songs. Cause I remember hearing, uh, it was Michael row your boat ashore, but there was another one before that down in the Valley. I forget how it goes now, but, um, they played two different songs and it's the same ones from the movie.

[00:35:09] And I'm like, it started to really dawn on me at that point. I, like I, I saw the sweater and then I heard the songs and I'm like, oh, this is a good, you know, good little throwback. Like, but I wasn't sure that's exactly where we're going. Like it felt early to it or yeah. Yeah. But then when we, when they got upstairs and they were making out, I'm like, oh, okay, maybe. And then I was like, oh my God, we're getting it. So for people who are listening and didn't watch rewatch Friday the 13th with us recently,

[00:35:38] you haven't seen in a while or you, excuse me, you never did the whole scene with, uh, Claudette and Barry singing church songs together and then going to have sex. And then you see someone come in and kill them, but you can't see who it is. Cause that's right out of Friday the 13th, the movie. And the timing was a little different, but it's supposed to be the same scene. It's the same characters, same names and everything.

[00:36:04] And then you find out at the end of that movie that it was Pamela Voorhees the whole time. So this is a twist or it's actually grace for this one. And honestly, I didn't like that. I, I, I was all excited to be in the scene and then the camera turns and you see Pamela coming up the stairs and I'm like, what? I'm confused. And then it turns out it's grace. And I was like, Oh, that's dumb. That was my first reaction. Like grace isn't a killer.

[00:36:32] And what does this add to the story? To me, it took away from it. I wanted the camera to turn around and see like a crazed Pam there, you know? So to see grace, it was just like, no. And then also I don't like the idea of stigmatizing LSD like that because LSD doesn't make people violent. Alcohol makes people way more violent than LSD.

[00:36:56] Maybe if you have some inherent violent tendencies or it can actually trigger like latent psychosis, like schizophrenia in some people, but generally it doesn't lead to violent outcomes like that. So I just, they showed, uh, they showed Dorfman's father watching Nixon talking about the drug war and March. I think it was like marching drug addicts to jail or something.

[00:37:26] And then they show this where trying to sort of say that LSD makes you violent. And I'm like, wow, maybe the show has a point of view that I don't quite agree with. So I don't know. The whole thing kind of just rubbed me the wrong way. Really? In the beginning or in the next one, they, the cops do mention, cause somebody says something like, eh, I don't know if, you know, drugs will do that. And somebody's like, look, this stuff is being made by middle-aged postal workers or whatever. Yeah. Like it could be. A bad batch.

[00:37:55] Like, you know, if you get a bad batch, bad things happen. Like the brown acid in, at Woodstock or whatever. Like, you know, maybe it's, you know, maybe it's more. I don't want to see that. I don't like it. Meth-like than, or whatever. Yeah, if it was PCP, maybe then I would be like, okay. Yeah, but maybe it's more, it's something adulterated that's causing possibly, or it's somebody who is in a, more likely in this particular situation, it's somebody who is in a heightened

[00:38:23] state of receiving information and Jason takes advantage of that. Yeah. I mean, great. Like, it also feels a bit, I was thinking about, uh, have you guys watched? Any of the Arrowverse shows? The Flash, Arrow. They're superhero shows and they're kind of soap opera-ish and they're, you know, they're fun, but they're, they go many seasons.

[00:38:49] So you start with a bunch of characters and they're sort of the superhero and then his, the people that he works with in his secret identity or whatever, his friends. And by the end of the series, a lot of them have become superheroes too. They all wear costumes and everything. They, some get power somehow. And it feels almost ridiculous. Like everyone's a superhero. And I got that feeling here. Like, oh, you got to make Grace a killer too. It sort of waters it down to me. I'm like, we didn't need that. You know, she's not a killer. So I guess she is.

[00:39:19] But I did, I mean, like in the immediate, like talking about it now, I'm like, wait, you're right. It doesn't. I'm sorry. I don't want to make it worse for you. No, but just, but like in that moment, cause I'm so like, oh my God, we're in the first season. Right. Me too. This is amazing. Like I was so in that. And then we turned this channel. I was like, oh, like that was a good shocker. Like I didn't see that coming at all.

[00:39:43] When we, when we started the series, I would have thought maybe this scene would have been in the finale as a way to set up the first movie. Yeah. So I like the misdirect in that it gives us more story to tell and we don't really know where to go in the, where we're going in the last three. Yeah.

[00:40:08] And we don't know, like, can, can not, can not, can not, based on, that's the word. Yes. Based on the first movie, we are assuming Pam is the killer. We don't know that we only see through the killer's eyes that these two counselors got murdered in 1953. Yeah. But I think that was definitely the, the intent of the filmmakers, right? For sure.

[00:40:38] Absolutely. But it is also a spot where somebody, yeah. Making a new show goes, Hey, wait a second. Here's a little loophole. I can tell a slightly different story for whatever reason. What, one thing I did, I did like is, well, on one hand, I like it when maybe I don't, is that, so Claudette and Barry, like in, in the movie, we see Pam kill them and then go on 20 years later or whatever to just kill a bunch of other camp counselors.

[00:41:08] And you just get the idea that she's so out of her mind that she just takes revenge on any camp counselors, especially ones having sex, even if they have no connection to what happened. But now that's sort of rewritten where Claudette in particular is the one who was negligent with Jason. And so it's much more personal, a personal revenge thing. And I do think Pamela actually did kill her in this.

[00:41:36] I think, uh, grace wounded her, but maybe she could have survived. And Pamela went over and finished her off and saying the lines that she said at the end of Friday the 13th. Oh, look at you. So young, so pretty, which she said to a dead body and Friday the 13th. But then, um, Jason, he should have been watched every minute. He wasn't a very good swimmer. Yep. I was so excited. I was like, okay, okay. Yay. That was good. Yeah. I like that too.

[00:42:06] I mean, and grace is up there saying I saved them. I saved Jason. Like she's in this cause she, before Jason drowned, she saw them having sex. Yeah. And so in her acid riddled mind, she thinks, oh, this is back then in the boathouse. And also if I kill them now, somehow that's going to save Jason. That makes no sense, but she's on acid and I can actually buy that when you're on acid. That might actually make sense. Like if he, she had killed them, it would have helped.

[00:42:35] It would not have helped Jason back on the day he drowned. No. Cause either way they're not paying attention to him. But you make these connections that, uh, don't always map to reality. Yeah. And then just like the very last thing where, um, Pam is holding grace and says, mama's here. I'm like, oh no, that's not your child. Yeah. That's fun.

[00:43:04] But we do see Jason on the stairs telling Pam what to do, but it's little Jason. Like it's not the Jason demon that everybody's seeing. Like this is, it's the one that was holding her hand when she. What did she say? It won't work. You need to, or they'll, they'll see the blood. You need to blame the ones that caused this kill them mommy. I will. And I thought, oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. I was gonna say, it felt like it felt like Pam's hallucination.

[00:43:33] It didn't feel like actual Jason. No. And even she knew that to whatever extent, otherwise she would have been like, my darling, you're here. You're alive. Right. She knew that that was some other manifestation. And I think it's just, well, who knows there's supernatural stuff in this, but I don't necessarily think that's some kind of a manifestation of Jason spirit. I just think she's going crazier and she's, she, maybe she actually wants to have permission

[00:44:03] to do the thing that she wants to do, which is kill all these kids. And so this is her way of, if Jason tells me to do it, then I can feel like it's the right thing to do or something. Cause he was proud of her when she was getting rid of the, the hit man's bodies. Like he came up and held her hand in her mind. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What other parts have we not talked about? Well, does Nathan have anything to add that we forgot about with this? Yeah.

[00:44:32] Just as part of Pam's mind unraveling, she kills the snake, which feels like a contrast to the first episode where she sets it free in the woods. She's not in the mood to spare lives anymore. Yeah. Yeah. It just kind of shows her devolving over time. Yeah. Yeah. I have that exact note. Good call. Yeah. I was like, Oh, I wonder if they told the snake handler, if it was, what was going to happen.

[00:45:03] I think that was a C, this was a CG snake. I think so too. Yeah. Yeah. You knew Claudette really signed her death warrant when she decided to be open to Pam and she started hugging her and we see a shot of Pam's face and she's just stone face. Twitching kind of. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I have to kill you later. And that, I mean.

[00:45:32] Claudette is like, I feel a thousand pounds lighter. I feel so much better. Come on. I mean, she's pretty cartoony too. I, I, although I did get a kick out of the way she was talking about pastor Ryan, you know, he's got a, Jesus has a heart on for my soul. That's what pastor Ryan says. And he wanted her to confess everything she did with Barry in detail every time we did it and where, how it felt like he's clearly creeping on her. And I thought that it would be a future story point, but then she died.

[00:46:02] So I guess it was just more of a joke unless we meet him later in some other context where she's like, I know technically the hymen can't be restored, but it can be spiritually replaced. So I've got that going for me, which is nice, which I pretty sure is a deliberate, um, call out to Bill Murray's character, Carl and Caddyshack. Like he was telling this story about the time he caddied for the Dalai Lama and asked for a tip.

[00:46:29] And he goes, and he says, there won't be any money, but when you die on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness. So I've got that going for me, which is nice. So she was cracking me up. I mean, I thought the pastor Ryan stuff was pretty dark. Like that man was grooming this child. Yeah, absolutely. Like that was, that was dark. It was dark humor though for me, cause she should have known. Right. But I mean, how, how would she know?

[00:46:57] I mean, if you're like, that's an adult of authority. She's still between 16 and 18. Really? Like he says, Jesus has a heart for my soul and he wants to know every detail of the sexual experiences I've had. Because that's the only way for her to be free. Like she, how is she supposed to know that that's not normal? Like maybe if it was someone younger or someone not in a position of authority over her.

[00:47:26] But I think this guy is just. I just think. A groomer. I understand. But I just think the tone of the show isn't that those lines weren't meant to make us go. Oh man, that is so tragic, but more like, oh my God, that's ridiculous. I mean, it's just like, there's so many that, that to me is her, the way she's been with

[00:47:50] finding religion is a direct tonal mapping over to the caricatures of these hippies who are talking about, um, I don't know how the world looks more real through your lens. And then he gets stabbed through the lens, you know, it's the same kind of thing. You know, you wouldn't see that and go, oh, what a tragedy. He was just talking about his camera work. And then it came back to him. You'd just be like, oh my God, I'm cracking up here.

[00:48:20] That's what I think. Well, and they also made Barry, Barry B an asshole so that we were happy when he does. Yes. Yeah. He's like, I'm not, I don't even want to say the word, but total homophobe. Yeah. Well, yeah, there's the homophobe part, but then also he was just having sex with Harmony and then his second round gets interrupted. So he's like, oh, let me see if I, it's like, I'll crank you about it. And then he hears everybody playing music. He's like, oh wait, Claudette's going to be in there.

[00:48:50] And then he tells her he loves her. He does not. I know. Like, I don't think it was like, oh, I, I didn't get to, um, you know, finish. So I'm going to go explore this other opportunity. The way he was sort of pumping himself up. I think he's like, I need to prove my manhood because of what just happened in that van. Yeah. But I mean, absolutely. But he did it. But it's still fucked up. Yeah. Yeah. He did a very skeevy way. Absolutely.

[00:49:18] Nobody was sad to see him die. No. Nope. I'll give Harmony credit for one thing in this episode. And that's that. That's when Claudette confronts her about sleeping with Barry. Harmony says you should be mad at Barry. Yeah. Yeah. It was so funny. And she was for a second. She got Claudette to agree. She's like, yeah. Oh, wait. She's like, you know, I'm paraphrasing, but it's no fair that women get called sluts, but

[00:49:48] men can sleep around with everyone and people just say boys will be boys. That's total bullshit. She goes, that is total bullshit. Wait, no, shut up. It is. It is total bullshit. It is total bullshit. And it's just funny, you know? I mean, there's so much humor in all of this. Like, it's almost too goofy. Like, I almost wish it was a little bit more stark like Friday the 13th really was. But it's funny. I mean, I enjoy it. A lot of, but a lot of the Friday the 13th are a little bit funny and campy and silly.

[00:50:16] Like there's a lot of that felt more Friday the 13th. Okay. I haven't seen except for the first. And I think the first two were a little bit less like that, right? Than how it goes later on. It gets, it gets interesting. Nobody really needs to see him go to Manhattan, but. I'll watch it again. Yeah.

[00:50:40] I was a little bit surprised that Grace went and told Claudette that Barry was sleeping with Harmony. I think she did that because she doesn't like Claudette, but she really likes Harmony. So she knew that would cause some trouble for Harmony. So it was a little bit reckless. I don't think she was trying to cause trouble for Harmony.

[00:51:06] I think she was trying to get Barry reeled in back to Claudette. Oh, okay. That was how I took it. Yeah. Maybe that's a, yeah, I think you're probably right. That's how it felt more. But we also know that she's had this rivalry with Claudette. So it could have been in part just to get at her too. But I think you're right. I think it was more about that. That was sneaky though on her part. Yeah. Did you guys break up?

[00:51:38] I have another note about this episode. What's up? Lee is starting to put together that Pam only takes an interest in him when something new happens in the case or something bad happens. Oh, yeah. Like when the restaurant goes up in flames or now this body in Ralph's shed. And he hasn't, at least at this point in the story, he hasn't put two and two together yet.

[00:52:05] But he does seem to pick up on when that interest spikes. I think it's more about her just being hot and cold. I don't think he's put it together. He's just like, you came and slept with me, which I didn't mind. But then you left our day early and now you're back inviting me for pie. And he said something about the push pull, you know, he's like, I can't deal with that right now.

[00:52:30] And so I don't think he's necessarily putting that together with this has something to do with this case, you know, because he, even when he finds out in the next episode that the two men were there to find her, his first reaction is, well, that means she's a victim. So maybe you're right. But either way, when he said, you know what, I don't have time for this right now. You know, maybe after this all passes, I'll give you a call or whatever. He said, I had a lot of respect for him.

[00:52:58] I'm like, yeah, she's toying with you, man. Yeah, I really like him. He's the least cartoony of everybody, I think. Um, he tried to close the camp. He did. Yeah. He said it was kind of a, a jazzy. The beaches will be open thing. But he said, you know, I talked to them about closing the camp, but they're going to open it or just postponing it for a week.

[00:53:28] But they're going to open it anyway. And I can't do anything because the body was not on camp property. But he tried to get the camp to close for at least a week, like postpone it. And he's like, no, we can't. There's. Yeah. Mr. Christie gives a speech to the campers. I love it. Like, like, uh, you know, there's rumors of a death nearby, but that didn't happen. But, uh. Oh, Mr. Christie.

[00:53:52] He said, uh, he said there's no, he said, uh, they say a man was killed, uh, nearby. It's not true. It didn't happen anywhere nearby. And they caught the guy who did it. That was so funny. And then he's like, everything is off limits pretty much. Yeah. But, uh, don't go anywhere alone. Yeah. I love that. Was that in the next episode or this one? That was this one. That was this one. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:54:22] Cause I have my notes like the, you know, the rules and like, okay, everything is off limits. And then he's talking to the kids about a body exclamation point, exclamation point. What? It's funny. See, have you met children before? Yeah. Because they probably didn't know yet. It didn't hit the news. Nobody's going to tell them. He didn't have to mention this. That's just going to make the kids talk about Jason killing people. Yeah. And the, the, it was, I, I, it's interesting to me sometimes when I think.

[00:54:52] I'm probably thinking way too much about this, but when they wrote that dialogue, it clearly signifies that he's nervous about opening up the camp because all this stuff is going on. So he's trying to be extra safe and protect the kids. But the way that the guy plays it, it does play that way, but he's also just kind of calm about it all. And he, because he's got this, uh, very, like we know from past episodes that he wants to

[00:55:21] help these kids, you know, it just seems like a really good guy to me. So he's still got that vibe going on, even though it's pretty irresponsible to start up a camp knowing that there's all these killings going on, you know, I don't know. But I mean, they're in the woods, they're of adults. He has no reason to think something's going to happen at the camp at this point. Yeah. Just keep the woods off limits, keep the kids out of it, like the forbidden forest and you'll be all right.

[00:55:47] I think if, who knows in the seventies, but if anything like that happened now, they wouldn't, they wouldn't open the camp. No. Anything else in this one? We didn't really, there was a little bit with, uh, Brianna. Yep. That was the only thing I have left to talk about. Yeah. She's being photographed from afar and that, but that's mostly a setup for next episode. I forgot about that when I watched the next episode, I have it in my notes, but I totally

[00:56:17] forgot when I got to the next episode. But she also went and confronted this guy Landau. Yep. Yeah. That's when she's, I think as she's walking away from him, she's being photographed. She's being photographed. Yeah. And he, and Dr. Landau's like, you don't, well, he mentions that he has a DNR. Yeah. Yeah. And when she said the names of the two goons, he seemed freaked out. If these guys are involved, you don't want to be involved. So leave me alone. Yeah.

[00:56:47] He said, you don't want anything to do with this. Little harbingery of himself. It's our own little harbinger now outside of Crystal Lake. Okay. Shall we move on to the next one? Yep. Nathan, want to read the plot summary? It's season one, episode six, kill them mommy. Pamela convinces Grace that she did not kill Barry and Claudette. Urged on by a vision of Jason, Pamela dumps the bodies near the hippies campsite and kills the group one by one.

[00:57:17] Though Harmony escapes. Pamela finds one fleeing member already killed with a machete and suspects Jason did it to protect Grace. State police take over the case, believing the group turned on one another after taking bad drugs. And they shut Lee out by citing his past. Landau sends Brianna documents about Pamela but is killed before he can meet her.

[00:57:43] Some guy who claims to be behind a program called Project Argonaut confronts Brianna instead and she escapes his men. Pamela coaches a hospitalized Grace on what to tell police. The newly released Ralph tells Pamela that whatever lives in the woods must be killed and she admits she believes it is Jason. At the fortress, an unseen Jason destroys the supplies she brings him, that Pam brings him.

[00:58:13] Lee and Brianna confront Pam at her home with the bellflower files and the scissor blade and she prepares to tell them the truth. So what did you guys think about this one? It was Friday the 13th. Yay! There was so much killing and blood and body placement. I love the body placement. That's the thing. I've said it before. Yeah.

[00:58:40] That's one of the things I like about Jason is he knows how to put a body somewhere for impact. She really did, huh? She dragged it in places where, yeah, you learned from mom. I learned it by watching you, mom. You learned that from mom. Yeah. I think that was a nice little detail they didn't have to add in, but you definitely learned that from mom. I loved it. I thought it was maybe the best one yet.

[00:59:04] I very much enjoyed this episode, even though it was gruesome as fuck. I mean, because it was. We're watching things based on a slasher movie. This is what we're here for. Come on, people. What about you, Nathan? I mean, I do want to see when I talk about that. Sometimes I'm like, we're on the walking dead cast where the walking dead is famous for bringing people in who don't normally like horror and don't even want to watch other horror movies.

[00:59:33] And I wonder if some of them are watching this going, what the? You guys are fucking twisted. But anyway, this is what it is. I think when people first hear about a Friday the 13th TV show, this is the type of episode they envision. Yeah. Yeah. This is an episode that kind of feels like it could be a movie, like just with emotions that it goes through. Mm-hmm.

[00:59:59] I'm surprised we got it, too, with how slowly they've doled out stuff like this in the show to have one like this. I was actually kind of shocked. This might be why they dropped it all at once. Yeah. So that people would be like, all right, I'm in. I'll just keep going. I think so, yeah. Oh, wait, this is what I'm here for. I'll keep watching now. Right, yeah. It's probably a good choice with this show. Yeah, because I mean, a lot of people follow like the two or three episode rule. Like, okay, if it doesn't get me in two or three, I'm not coming back to it.

[01:00:29] And if you came in for Jason and Friday the 13th-esque stuff, and you don't get that in the first, definitely not in the first two. You can make an argument kind of a little bit. It starts to turn around in three. But yeah, if you don't make it to five, you don't feel real Jason-y. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:00:50] And I mean, I would say there is enough in the first few to keep people watching, but if they can binge it, if it's week by week, they might lose interest. Because that blood bag head guy, that got me pretty good. That was fun. I really like that one. I love something new we haven't seen before. Yeah, yeah. So funny. That was really good. But that was really the only thing we had holding us over until now. What about you, Nathan?

[01:01:21] Did you like it? Yeah, this might be my favorite. It's kind of a toss-up between the last one and this one. This twofer is my favorite set of two episodes that we've watched so far. A thousand percent agree. I can only imagine what the last two are going to be like. Yeah, I actually got to watch these on the big TV in my house. And my boyfriend came down. He hadn't seen the other ones because I just watched them on my computer.

[01:01:51] And he hadn't seen the other ones. And I was like, you came down at a good time. This is when the show is getting good. Is he into that stuff? Not as much as you? Not as much as I am. He's a little more stickler for plot over gore than I am. But he likes the slasher movies. Our very first date was to a Scream movie. He likes the horror stuff. He knows the horror stuff. And he was into it. I was like, I can catch you up on what happened. You don't really need to go back and watch the other episodes.

[01:02:20] We can move forward from here. I also, like I said, I don't like stigmatizing LSD by making Grace a killer. But I do like the idea of going full slasher flick while all the victims are tripping. Because that's just entertaining. And it's such a bad trip. One time years ago, I was tripping on some really strong shrooms.

[01:02:48] And I remember it just being hard to look at something because it was too orange. It was like, ah, that's too orange. Imagine like Pam LaVorhe's in there stabbing a guy in the head. I just start crying and curl up in a ball or something. I don't know. Or just thinking you tripped over a log and no, it's a dead body that's right next to you. Like that would blow your brains out. Yeah. That would really hurt.

[01:03:20] So, and it reminds me of, what was it? Oh, Yellow Jackets. There's an episode where they're all shrooming and that goes really badly, but it's fun to watch. And then a movie I really love is Midsommar or Midsommar. Yeah. That one has some tripping going on in it. I tend to find that entertaining. And I did here too. There was one scene where two of them, I don't even know their name.

[01:03:47] I think one's Rhiannon and the other one might just be Gabe. I'm not sure. But they're having sex in the woods. And she's going, you're, you're penetrating me so deeply. And it felt like they filmed it. This is maybe TMI, but very conspicuously to show that he wasn't penetrating her at all. And I wondered what, why, what's the point of that? I didn't notice that. That's really funny. Now I have to go back and watch that. You got to watch it again. But anyways, yeah.

[01:04:17] Then he slits her throat and blood starts pouring all in his face. Yeah. I can feel, it was, I can feel you penetrating my soul. Like that's, that's pretty deep. And then he responds with Ride the Rainbow. Yeah. See, that's just cartoony. Come on. But it's funny as hell. But I mean, it's, the slasher movies, like they are cartoony. Yeah, it is. All the blood. Like it, it is. That's, that way it doesn't feel real. Like they're not. Yeah. They're not supposed to feel real. They're supposed to feel cartoony.

[01:04:46] I'm just confused because they're making this psychological drama out of it, but it's still got that cartoony aspect. So I have to reconcile that somehow. I think it's, it's weaving them. Yeah. Both, you know, the campy elements and also the A24 mature storytelling. They're doing a dance. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it is a consistent tone though.

[01:05:13] I, I'm not saying it's not, but, um, it's just different. It's interesting. Yeah. Cause I mean, in these movies, you're brooding for the killer. You're, you're watching it for the gory kills. And cause you know, the killer better than anybody else. Cause you've seen him kill people hundreds of times.

[01:05:35] Now at this point, if you followed all the Friday the 13th movies, like it's always campy and there's way too much blood and gore. And it's, that's what you're watching it for. Like, um, if you watch the cartoon invincible at all, I don't know if you watch that. Yeah. That, that's even a little too gory for me. That's, that takes it. That's serious gore. I still watch it though. That's not, oh yeah. But that's like, but that's serious gore.

[01:06:02] That's not, I mean, it is literally a cartoon, but it's not. And they do take it a little over the top because it's cartoon, but it's taken very seriously. Whereas this stuff is not like that. There's so much blood. Like I know head wounds and neck wounds and whatever bleed a lot, but not as much as we see in these movies. And it's so like, and that's the point of this. Like it's supposed to be over the top and crazy and take, make you not feel that it's reality so that you're not like, oh my God, somebody's dying. Oh my God, somebody's dying.

[01:06:32] It's more like a comedy in some sense. Did you have a favorite kill? It might be this one. It might be just like, it's so Friday the 13th. It's sex. As soon as, yeah. As soon as I saw anyone having sex, I'm like, oh, you're dead. I'm surprised Harmony made it out of there alive. Yeah. It's the sex. It's the, you know, the slice across the throat and the blood just covering somebody else. And then them slowly realizing what's going on.

[01:07:02] And then the freak out, like it would have gone into any of the movies. Absolutely. Seamlessly. Absolutely. Perfectly. Yeah. You can just, yeah. It just, it's so horrific to imagine in the middle of sex, which is a very pleasurable act. Suddenly your partner's throat is slit and blood is pouring all over your face. And like, he totally finished as she died. He's like, oh, I found a new kink. Yeah.

[01:07:31] And luckily he didn't have long enough to process that. Mine was the camera. And especially because at first I thought that she smashed the camera into his face. But on second watch, I realized that he was looking through his lens after saying, you know, how real the world is seeing it through your lens and saw her blade coming right through it into his face. That was kind of clever. That was awesome too. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:07:59] I definitely, the camera death for me is, it was just, you know, part of this character's little shtick is that he's always taking photos so that, so when it gets pressed right up on him, it was just funny. Yeah. I mean, and he was taking photos of dead bodies. Like normally you wouldn't, maybe you get shocked into reality, but he was like, nope, nope, got to capture this.

[01:08:28] Well, one of the kills I actually heard Freddy Krueger's voice in my head because I think it's the couple that's having sex and then one, and then like blood spills out and I sound like a psycho and I hear Freddy, there's this line that he says in one of the movies where he's like, talk about a wet dream. Talk about a wet dream. Yeah.

[01:08:58] Like I said, slasher, cartoony, funny, dark humor, all of that. Like that's exactly why most people are drawn to Friday the 13th and these other slasher movies. And this, this is what we're looking for. This is what we got. I had no complaints about the murders. So Plato, I think it's Plato tries to take the boat and grace attacks him.

[01:09:25] And meanwhile, Harmony gets in her van and Pam is there smack in the window. That was pretty intense as she screams. And, uh, it's, it's interesting to see Pamela Voorhees in full killer rage mode because you don't see much of that in the movies. I guess you do at the end, but she's not successful right here. You're seeing her actually be successful at doing her thing. Stabbing that, uh, what's her name?

[01:09:55] Uh, blue, somebody blue. I forget stabbing her multiple times. And then here smacking that window. And, but then she heard, uh, grace scream. So that saved Harmony. Cause she ran off to see what was going on and then finds, uh, Plato in the boat with the machete to the face, machete to the face. So I guess Jason came by. I don't know why grace was unconscious, but. Or did grace kill him?

[01:10:24] Well, did she have a machete? I don't know. Maybe she killed him. That's kind of what I thought at first, but when I thought about it for a minute, it seemed like they were getting it. Jason having done it given that grace was unconscious. And I thought it was interesting. Like Pam is in her. I'm going to kill everybody rage, but still gets pulled right out of it to save a child. Just so great. She's so kind hearted. But I mean, like on that note, like she shows up at the camp covered in blood and their first thought now.

[01:10:55] Granted, I'm looking at this in the wrong eyes, but these hippies, like their first thought is, oh my God, are you okay? Do you need help? They're not shunning her. They're not scared of her. Like, they're just like, oh my God, do you need help? And they run to help her. Like they were good people. Yeah, they were. They were amazing. I think. Irresponsible. Sure. But very kind hearted. I would much rather hang out with them than anyone else in this series.

[01:11:25] I don't know. I feel like I could hang with Lee. Yeah, I could hang with Lee. And his sister. I could hang with Lee and Brianna. As part of Pan's cleaning up the camp program, she is going to pin the deaths of Barry and Claudette on the hippies as well. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because she moved them. Yeah. Like when all these hippies are running through the woods, they're like tripping on Barry and Claudette's bodies. That was added to the chaos. Mm-hmm.

[01:11:56] Body placement. When Harmony gets away, at first I thought, you know, who is she going to pin it on if Harmony didn't get away? But then we hear later from the townies that people think maybe it's like a Manson situation and they can just blame the hippies just all being on drugs. And they're kind of creating their own stories in the same way that they created bear attack

[01:12:26] stories in an earlier episode. Mm-hmm. Yeah, he's like, oh, those commies out there. I thought you said they were Satanists. I love the diner scenes. The diner scenes are so great. Yeah, I like it too. But yeah, you know what? Maybe that's the reason why, the only reason why Harmony got away and we won't see her again is just so they could add that to the plot where they had someone to pin it on. Yeah, that's a good point. I didn't even think of that.

[01:12:52] And in the diner, Ralph freaks out and saying again, there's something unnatural and evil in the woods. And then Pam comes out and says, I've seen it too. And Ralph says it's been following him and emptying his traps and skinning his kills. And then he said, it's trying to learn like a baby making sense of the world, which I didn't

[01:13:20] understand at first, but now you made me realize he's figuring out how to provide for himself, I guess. But then did he skin the woman just because he learned how to do it by skinning these animals in Ralph's traps? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Was it a practice thing? Right. Because like, I liked Ralph's exact words because I love Ralph. There's something in these woods and it's not a bunch of doped up draft dodgers. It's something unnatural, something truly evil.

[01:13:50] And it doesn't care about our laws or our opinions or policies. Go on, have yourself a walk in the woods. You'll never come back again. And he said, it's tracks are like a man's and Pam immediately said, I think it might be Jason. And I'm like, that's interesting. Cause Jason's not a man, but she just has, she's had this, uh, knowingness that Jason is still alive since episode one, where she would go stand out in the dock and stare at the middle

[01:14:20] of the lake. And it felt like it could be either supernatural or linked to the, to this Argonaut thing, but whatever the case, I think this sort of feeds into that. Like she could hear this fact that would make anyone else think, Oh, maybe that's not Jason, but she'd just ignore it. She just has this knowing feeling and she's right. We all know. Yeah. I mean, if you don't have a body, it's gotta be really hard to process. Yeah.

[01:14:47] But you just, it was right after he said it was a man's footprints. She goes, I think it's Jason. And then, you know, if that thing was your boy, it's not anymore. Right. Like we don't even know, like, you know, we're picturing, I'm picturing hockey mask Jason, even though it doesn't make any sense, but the big lumbering guy just giving Pam a hug, mommy. And it's like, no, maybe he would just kill her.

[01:15:14] You know, I, we don't know, but it was interesting when she went to the shack and laid out all the like cocoa and cookies and everything for him. And then I guess the idea was that he wrecked it all. Right. She heard footsteps, went outside calling for him. Yeah. He's hiding around the corner. He's sneaky, but I'm not sure what that means. But my guess is just that it's not the same.

[01:15:43] Um, it's not her case. Cause we think like he went back to the house and stole his little gun back, which we saw when she packed up all the boxes. Like they did a cut scene, like later in that garage. And there was a hole in the box that had the little gun in it. And then the gun shows back up at this moonshiners cabin or fortress, I guess, as we're calling it now.

[01:16:04] Um, she saw him shooting it though earlier when she was out by the lake and she saw Jason off in the distance or I forget where she was, but she saw his figure. And then you see this spark a couple of times. That was the toy gun. Yeah. That's another clue that he's been there because this toy gun is in its hiding spot under the

[01:16:33] floorboards and earlier we hear it going off. Carousin around. But it's interesting to think that maybe, you know, somehow Jason has taken on the form of an adult, but maybe he's still mentally a child in some ways. But he obviously thinks he doesn't need all that stuff because living in the woods, I mean, maybe he doesn't need the tent. Yeah. He's like, mom, I know how to skin an animal now. I don't need your help. Yeah. I don't need any of this anymore. Like that's kind of what it came across as.

[01:17:02] And like, I don't need you. Don't. Or he's embarrassed about what he is and he just wants his mom to go away. Cause if he takes the stuff nicely, she's going to keep coming back and wanting to talk to him and want to hang with him. And if he's embarrassed about, like if he wanted to see her, he had plenty of opportunities to see her. Yeah. Or maybe he's mad that she let him drown or something. Or embarrassed about who he is or yeah. Like, I'm curious how that all plays out because it just seems like he doesn't want to be seen

[01:17:32] by her. Yeah. Which we've been wondering why he wouldn't contact her. So maybe they're trying to answer that question, you know? Uh, but that brings another thought to my mind. Like in the movies, she's, she, I don't think she really thinks he's alive still.

[01:17:56] She just is pissed off that he's dead and blames these counselors. And she hears his voice in her head and she even says, I'm Jason, but she's not like, I know he's out there somewhere. And so that, that's what this Pam has been doing the whole time. So I feel like that changes the dynamic a little instead of just being kind of crazy and killing

[01:18:21] all these counselors out of vengeance, the killing that she does is a in self-defense with these two guys. And then mostly it's about grace, you know, uh, killing people who she thinks are a problem for grace, her mother. And then these hippies, the only time she kills out of vengeance for Jason is when she finishes off Claudette that I can remember anyway.

[01:18:47] Do you not think that she believes he's out there or this is confirmation that he is because he trashed the cabin? No, I'm saying in the movie, she didn't, I don't think she thought that, but in the show she does. So that's how the show and the movie are different. Okay. Yeah. Cause she definitely was influenced by him in the movies. Like she was following him, but not that he was a separate entity that he was, he was with her. He was, you know, Like his spirit or something. Yeah.

[01:19:17] But he wasn't necessarily a separate entity, which still leads to that. You know, was it a dream? Was it not a dream? And I guess if at this point in time, Jason is fully grown and the Jason who flew out of the lake was a child, it's was a dream. I guess we have that answer now. Um, I mean, I, I don't think you can, this is a sort of, I see it as like a, a, an alternate

[01:19:42] universe tale, you know, I mean, for one thing, the, they decided to change the timeline. So that already makes it so it can't fully line up. So anyway, I'm not too worried about it fitting exactly. I mean, we haven't gone complete. We haven't done anything completely against Canon yet. Like everything still falls in. Except for the timeline change. Except for the timeline change. Yeah.

[01:20:11] But I said before the Simpsons changed their timeline every couple, every 10 years. So I'm okay with that. What else? Nathan, what do you want to talk about? Do we think at this point, this is going to be a one season show? Um, depends on what they do at the end. Yeah. They haven't. No. Brad, Caleb Kane has ideas for more seasons, but they haven't really, as far as I could find

[01:20:39] said, whether it's been a big hit or not. I'll have some more stuff in the news section about how it's been received. But anyway, no official word on future seasons yet. Yeah. My friend sent me something that said it was renewed for season or it was in talks to be renewed for season two. I'm like, well, that doesn't mean anything. Yeah. I mean, it just comes down to whether a lot of people watched it or not, I think. And I, and I do think, well, since we're talking about it, I'll just go ahead and talk about it now.

[01:21:07] So the, uh, Rotten Tomatoes has it at 76 for critics, but 88 audience. And that's pretty good. You know, it's not the best, but it's good. And with those, like, I feel like, um, critical reviews matter, especially if someone like eight, eight 24 and also popularity. And if you have, um, neither of those, then of course it's not going to be reviewed renewed.

[01:21:38] But if you have like decent reviews and high popularity, then I think it would, there would be a good chance that it would be renewed. Maybe you just need popularity. I don't know. But anyway, those are where the review stands. Uh, Linda Cardellini's performance is being praised across the board pretty much. And also like the practical effects and the dark humor and the, even the emotional storytelling.

[01:22:01] But the complaints are that the plot gets too convoluted, especially with all the conspiracy stuff and that the story feels a bit stretched out over eight episodes. And we've talked a little bit about some of that stuff. I really do think that watching it closely, like we do makes it better, makes all that stuff better. And hopefully listening to us talk about it makes it better. But, um, we don't really know whether it's a hit. They haven't, Peacock hasn't released viewing numbers or declared it a success.

[01:22:30] And I guess it's too early for Nielsen data, but Brad Caleb Kane has talked about plans for a potential second season if it's renewed. I mean, there you go. If we're just upping the timeline, I mean, even if we're not upping the timeline, we've still got almost 10 years between this and the next reopening of the camp when the counselors all get murdered again. So we've got time for more story to be told if there's more story to be told.

[01:22:58] I mean, too, it could be hockey mask Jason. They could jump around in time, you know? I don't think they have the rights to hockey masks. Oh, really? Oh. Yeah. I don't think they have the right. I think that was part of the deal. Oh, change it to lacrosse. I think the hockey mask is still part of the litigation stuff. Catcher's mask. Yeah. That doesn't quite feel the same. Yeah.

[01:23:27] But I'm pretty sure that they still haven't sorted out the hockey mask legalities yet. I want to... And again, if it's a prequel, like, Pam's got to die. And she dies in the movie. Yeah. So we can only take her story so up to the reopening of the camp. Unless they just... Before the camp actually gets any kids. Ignore it and change it. Which, I mean, they could do. That would be silly. Yeah, I mean...

[01:23:56] But, you know, if The Walking Dead can have another series based on, hey, here's all the stuff that we glossed over at the beginning of the outbreak. Oh, wait, we're still going to skip into the future and not show you that stuff. I wanted to talk about the Bellflower stuff. And what... So Brianna Lee's sister, the reporter, gets a package of Bellflower notebooks.

[01:24:24] Laboratory project study, final reports, 1962. There's a picture of a woman. I tried to pause it and look as much as I could. It said... I've got a whole bunch of little details, too. R&D oversight, industrial. Resulting in abrupt admission to birth-winning child was found to have passed during the first phase. So there wasn't a lot visible, but you got the sense this woman was part of some kind of program and her child died.

[01:24:55] See, I've got her name and then she was put into the OBGYN section. Yeah. Jason, her birth date is May 23rd. No, no, no, no. We're not going to that part yet. Oh, we're not that part. We're at the other one. I'm like, wait, I've got so many details. So that's this woman on the front page. Her child died in 1960.

[01:25:21] Then there's a report to Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Company. Acute oral toxicity studies on two materials. Samples of two materials identified as... And there's just some letters and numbers.

[01:25:34] And I'm not sure if that's related to these experiments with women and children or if it's something different. But I feel like it could be some substance. You generally start on rats. Yeah.

[01:26:02] So then there's Bellflower Laboratories, Division of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Pamela S. Wittering, which we know is Pam Voorhees' real name. Age 33. Birth date, May 13th, 1930. What day of the week is that? No, hers was May 23rd. Oh, that's hers. I'm sorry. May 13th, 1960 is Jason's. Yeah. Man, I blew that. What day of the week is that? Friday. That's a Friday.

[01:26:32] So anyway, she used to live in New York, New York. And there's a section with two checkboxes, alive and past, and she's marked alive. And it's just like the fact that you'd need that for this form says something about the study. Reason for treatment, impaired fecundity, internal hemorrhaging. Fecundity, I didn't know what that meant, but I guess it just means fertility. So that's why she is having the treatment.

[01:27:01] It's difficulty in conceiving pregnancy or carrying a pregnancy to live birth. Yeah. So impaired fertility, basically impaired, not able to have children. And so maybe she went to this program because she couldn't have children. Status following treatment, successful birth, increase in mood disorders following a period of four years, fled treatment center after an intense period of hysterics, current location unknown.

[01:27:31] I wonder if the treatment, quote unquote, caused her to go nuts. You left off one thing that was on there. What did I say? I'm not done yet. Okay. I was going to say. Name of child, Jason Wittering, sex, male, birthday, May 13th, 1960.

[01:27:51] Description of birth, general development of cranial deformity, upper right side and latching to breast difficulty. Normal amount of hair, general functioning, decent increase in seizure following treatments. And then full name of father, Elias Wittering. And then there's a picture of Pamela.

[01:28:14] So I think he was born as a result of this thing. And they bring in, what do you call participants who are trying to have children and can't. And then, but, but we still don't know what the real nature of the study is. Did I miss anything? No, you got everything I have. Yeah.

[01:28:44] I think they're bringing in people who don't know who it's some kind of IVF before IVF. Yeah. And the fact that he's having seizures, maybe they're, what they're doing, or maybe whatever this is that allowed her to have birth, it just wasn't perfect. Yeah. I mean, there's two ways to look at it.

[01:29:09] Maybe she wasn't able to either get or maintain a pregnancy because of something genetically wrong on her end. And the babies just weren't able to come to term. Yeah. Or whatever they gave her has caused this possible, has caused this birth defect. Right. So there's two ways we can look at it. And maybe there's a satanic ritual involved. Perhaps.

[01:29:38] I keep going back to an earlier episode where one of you speculated that maybe the experiments that are going on are the reason that Jason is super strong and Terminator-like in future movies. Yeah. Seemingly immortal. Yeah. And that's where my mind keeps going every time I see all these folders that she's flipping through.

[01:30:08] But you wonder if maybe he couldn't have even been born if not for this thing. But it just, like, later the guy from Bellflower says the science is sound, but maybe the science was not sound. It seems like it wasn't. I mean. Because it seems like most of the women died from it. Scientists always think that their science is sound, and then that's why other scientists have to look into it and poke holes into it. And they never, still don't admit when they're wrong.

[01:30:36] So this guy Landau that had told Brianna, you know, he's the whistleblower guy. He didn't want to see her again. Leave me alone. But then he sent her these files. We didn't mention that, but he's the one who sent her the files. And he said they contain everything he knows. And then she goes, well, one of the women in the files, I know her. And he goes, impossible. The subjects in those files are all dead.

[01:31:04] And I'm like, Pam's file says she's alive and skipped town and her whereabouts are unknown. So I think I've read those files more carefully than you have. I mean, unless, yeah, maybe there's a story. Because when Pam called back to Bellflower and talked to her friend, they didn't know where she was. They knew she, they seemed to not think she was dead. They seemed to know that she was missing. But they didn't know where she was.

[01:31:33] As far as she could tell, they didn't send the hitman. And that tracks with what, the way these conversations went. Yeah, because like the guy from Bellflower that meets Brianna at the amusement park later seems to know the two guys when she names them that came to look for Pam. But he's really curious about where Pam is. He tries to get that information out of her. So it does seem like he didn't send the two guys because then he would know.

[01:32:03] So somebody else, is somebody else looking for her too? You know, that's the part I don't quite understand. Well, I feel like they were freelance. And they're, you know, kind of like Bell. People are going after people who like skip Bell. Bounty hunters. Yeah, bounty hunters. Yeah. So they're kind of like bounty hunters. Like the Mandalorian. Yeah. I don't think they're going to get paid or at least not get paid enough until they find her. Like, all right, here's the bounty on her head is this much. Okay.

[01:32:32] You guys go get her. So I don't think they were going to say, you know, like if they call back and be like, hey. Oh, yeah. That makes sense. We found her here. Then they're going to tell other people they're not going to get their bounty. Like that's the way I took the situation. That makes total sense. Because if they told them, they might just send someone else or go get them themselves or something like that. So they want to just be the one to be able to claim credit and everything and get the money, I guess. Yeah. Something like that. And even make sure it's actually her. Mm-hmm.

[01:33:00] But if it was just like they could at least give them some information. Like I think she might be here. We're going to go look. But they don't want them to have any information until they actually come back with the bounty. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. It's like they're freelance bounty hunters or whatever. Mm-hmm. Or hitman or whatever. And that they're not going to get paid until they do the job. So they've probably been working on this for the last 10 years or what's Jason?

[01:33:26] Like three or four at this point when they leave-ish based on this file. Yeah. I think so. So like, you know, it's five to seven. Yeah. So seven years they've been looking for her. So then what about the part when she meets the guy at the park? Well, it was kind of funny because Landau, as soon as he found out that. What did he find out? That Pamela was alive? Yeah. Yeah.

[01:33:56] Then he wanted to meet her. And we still don't really know why that prompted him to want to meet her. I wondered if she was in danger for him, but I don't think so. But then she goes to meet him and the Bellflower guys intercept him and just kill him right in public. That was cold. That was brutal. Yeah. Well, that was my thought. It was like, wow, this is a very public place to just kill somebody. Yeah. No one's going to notice that. Don't mind him. He's just had a bit too much to drink. Yeah. Those are some confident killers.

[01:34:28] I thought it was kind of appropriate though. Like just the beginning of that scene, like with like the people screaming in fake terror, like nobody's actually in trouble yet. Like you hear all the rides screaming. That's true. Yeah. I thought there was something a little poetic about it. Yeah. And it masked, maybe masked, or at least that was the idea. It masked his cry of anguish. And there's so many other things to look at than one random guy going, ooh.

[01:34:54] Like, you know, there's all these lights and shining things and kids screaming. It just makes me feel sad to think that someone could kill me in broad daylight and no one would notice. I mean, if they're good enough and it's your life. They're professionals. But Brianna, I mean, same time, Brianna not getting, they didn't get her. Yeah. She keyed the guy. So, so first she asks him about Project Argonaut.

[01:35:22] And we learn a little bit. It's a clinical trial. He won't say what it's testing because it's proprietary or secret. Apparently from the subtext, because she goes, why was it shut down? And he goes, well, if you're talking to Landau, you know why. But I think it's because women were dying in it. Hence that checkbox. Or maybe the babies were all getting superpowers. I just, why do I think that?

[01:35:50] I think, yeah, I'm not exactly sure. But he said something about risk. Like there's a certain amount of risk. Yeah, that's right. Progress and innovation requires risk. So that's when they were talking about why they shut it down. So I guess he could have met the risk of a legion of super babies. I mean, that's what mad scientists. I feel like it was about death. Yeah. But I mean, I feel like that's what mad scientists and movies and stuff say. Like, you know, I'm doing this for the greater good.

[01:36:21] Sure. I just, what adds to that for me is the checkbox alive or passed on the form where you, they're talking about all these women who are in the program. Um, but it sounds like the files that Lando handed over to, uh, Brianna said all of that, but just didn't say what the program was actually for. But we'll hopefully find that out in the next episode here.

[01:36:48] And it's possible that Lando didn't like, he had a certain level of security and he didn't have everything. And he said it was his. Oh yeah, you're right. Yeah. I think so. You're right. Yeah. So the guy that she was talking to on the bench, that it was his project. It's his program. Yeah. Lando didn't quite get about this meeting was he, uh, as soon as he finds out that, or no, she starts talking about this.

[01:37:18] The, the, the two goons that bellflower sent after someone and he names them. And now he's like, what town was this exactly? And then he starts to pretend like, oh, you know what? Let me come clean. It was my project. And I, if you can lead me to someone who might be alive, then I would like to make amends. He's just trying, making it all up. Cause he wants to find her, but then he accidentally mentions her name and then he realizes, oh, I never said the name.

[01:37:48] And then, and I'm like, why is that a gotcha? I don't quite get, I maybe just cause he, I don't know. I don't know why that was such a gotcha that, oh, oh, I actually do know who you're talking about, but I was pretending not to. I don't know. Maybe there's more people missing. I guess just that he knows more than he lets on.

[01:38:13] Even though when he initially sits down with her, he tries to make an appeal to, you know, some kind of talk things out with her. Mm-hmm. And under false pretense. Yeah. And it's like his covers blown. But it's like, oh, you realized I was lying. I'm going to have to kill you now.

[01:38:33] It seemed like it was, there was something else that of him admitting that he knew who she was talking about. If it was so important to protect that, that he now has to kill her. Anyway, I'm not going to worry too much about it. But yeah, then they're just going to kill her and she gets away. And then she calls Nate and asks him to bring her the files.

[01:39:02] And he narrowly escapes Bellflower's other goons. And Nate is a hero. So there you go. Yeah. Good on Nate. Be discreet. Taking the files from the drawer. He looked so guilty the whole time. I know. Have you seen Pamela? Um, nope. She's just at lunch.

[01:39:24] I mean, thank God he grabbed his jacket and was able to cover the package. It made me afraid for him. I thought he was a good chance he was a goner. When she makes her escape, she rightly assumes that they're going to trace her back to her brother. And that's how they're going to get a lock on New Jersey. Yeah. That's completely logical. That makes perfect sense.

[01:39:55] Mm-hmm. Yeah, she's a smart woman. So even though they were tracking the doctor and he knew he was possibly being followed, that's why he was being so discreet. That's why he, I think, you know, maybe they were just seeing how far he would go to see if he would show them something that they don't know yet. Yeah.

[01:40:19] And, I mean, he had to think her phone was bugged because he was calling from Grand Central Station because I know the way that station looks. He was calling her from Grand Central Station. So he was calling from a public phone. There's no way they tapped, like, every public phone. So if he's, like, not over the phone, it has to be, he has to be worried that her phone got tapped. Yeah.

[01:40:40] They must have had eyes on him and maybe they figured out somehow that he was meeting with a reporter or figured it out in the moment or whatever because they decided to intercept him and kill him. And then, yeah, then this other guy took advantage of the situation to try to figure out, I guess, what she knew.

[01:41:03] I mean, the whole conversation that he was having with her was trying to convince her that, you know, this looks bad, but it's just a regular experiment and there's nuances to it. But we did everything legally and the science is sound. So I think you should just stop asking questions and not do a report about this. And then she pressed and, oh, then why were there two guys that came to try to kill one of the subjects? And that's when he started, oh, yeah, yeah. What town was that?

[01:41:33] You know, he kind of pivoted like, oh, oh, that's what's going on. Well, let me find out where this person is because we are looking for her, you know. Yeah. She spilled the beans big time. Yeah. Right. Yeah. She could have. She didn't give away the town, but now maybe. But it's not going to be hard to find. Yeah.

[01:41:53] So, uh, then Brianna tells Lee and I liked how they did this, where he, his first reaction is, well, this just shows like he finds out that the two guys who they've been investigating the merge of were there for her to get her. And he's like, and she's like, I'm sorry to have to tell you this. And then he's like, well, this just shows that she's a victim. And you're like, dude, come on. You're proving Dorfman right about your police abilities here.

[01:42:21] But then the next scene, you see him at her place with the broken scissors as she comes in and confronts her with it. So he's now realized, okay, you, you probably killed them and you're going to have to tell me. And by the way, she should have totally thrown those in the lake when she threw the machete in the lake too. But. Yes. Um, can we talk about him just hanging in her house with his sister? Like talk about not good police work. They're friends. It's fine.

[01:42:51] But he's there as a cop. Like he's the one like this whole time, like I stick to the rules. You got to follow the right protocols, blah, blah, blah. And now he's just sitting waiting for his suspect to come home. Half as a cop, half as a, as a lover. He's like, I'm doing you a favor by letting you give me an explanation because I'm, I want you to be able to get out of this, but it's going to have to be a good one. That kind of a vibe. I'm not saying.

[01:43:16] But I grabbed this piece of evidence without a warrant or any reason to, because I was sticking it in. He can hide it for her if she has a good story. I'm just saying like, he's been preaching good police work this whole time. All of a sudden he's like, unless. An intervention. Yeah. Like, I mean, it made for a good scene. Her coming through the door and being there. It's a great scene. And that's most important. It is. Sometimes I think. Yeah. But then she sits down. I've never told anyone what I'm about to tell you.

[01:43:45] And I'm just trying to decide where to start. In episode. All right. So we're done now. So we can all go watch the next episode, right? Is there any more notes? I think I'm pretty much done. I would say with that point, you know, Pam is concerned about the case being taken from Lee. Mostly because it. She can finesse. Yes. Him.

[01:44:10] He says the FBI and well, the state police are taking over and then the FBI might come in and she doesn't like that at all. She's like, I want you to be the investigator. Other than that, I think we pretty much covered everything. I just had one. Yeah. I just had one little detail to add, which was when he's fight, when Lee is fighting with Dorfman, he's like, I'll show you. Like, he just loses it. He's like, I'll show you what a dirty cop looks like. Yeah. Like watching him actually lose his cool was interesting.

[01:44:40] I mean, when Dorfman came in there and acted like that, I'm just like, no, you can't do that. You can't do that. Yeah. Anybody ever try that with your boss? You're not going to have a job. I don't understand why he didn't just fire him right there. Honestly, maybe because he needs him right now, but that's the only reason I could see. Yeah. But that's episode six. Okay.

[01:46:01] We're back and we actually have some feedback because this is the first episode that we've done after the series has been on the air. Not a lot of feedback, but a little bit. So here we go. Jamie, you want to go first? From Joe. Loved the first two. Feel like they may be giving a reason that he doesn't ever die, which is pretty cool. Hopefully you're right. Yeah. Hopefully it will be cool. And Andy Fisher.

[01:46:30] Can't wait to hear your thoughts, Jason. Uh-oh. Is there something you want to tell us? LOL. The preview of the show looks great. I want to know whether you have watched it and whether you liked it, because if you haven't, there might be some consequences. No, I'm just kidding. Um, Brad Holt says, you mentioned Kevin Bacon being in this movie, but did you realize that this guy, he sent a picture, is Bing Crosby's son, Harry? This is one of the characters from Friday the 13th, Bill.

[01:47:00] I think he's like the guy that makes it furthest. Right? Yeah. I'm not positive about that. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't know that. I did know that, but I didn't have anything to add to the movie with that. And then several hours later, Brad wrote back saying, just finished the whole thing. Loved it. Can't wait to hear you guys break down. So Brad's seen more than we have.

[01:47:25] And then we've got Grippy Doubleino, who was talking about episode three. Best kill ever. Meat tenderizer and then a deep fryer. He he. Because of your show that recapped the original film and part two, I watched them probably for the first time. By today's standards, they were predictable and mildly entertaining. But then I started watching the series. Holy smokes. It's like the sheriff has blinders as to possible suspects and not ruling anyone out. LOL.

[01:47:56] You wouldn't think sweet little Pam Voorhees did anything wrong. No. No. And here's a message from Steve Brown. And I'm pretty sure he has seen the first three episodes and he's going to tell us what he thought. Hello, Wax Exotic. This is Steve. And I'm just starting Crystal Lake. I know you guys are almost done with the series, really, because you're recording episodes five and six today. So I'm not going to do a live, Steve, of the first six episodes. That would be way too long and way too scary for me.

[01:48:24] But I am going to try to give some notes about the episodes one through four, if that's OK. And then I'll try to catch up with you, hopefully, later this week. OK, so Jason's body wasn't found after he drowned in 19... No, 1957 is when he drowned. 1958 is when the first movie took place. So, OK, I wasn't going to live Steve this. I'm just going to be quiet. So just a quick note. I misspoke. I guess they... Retcon... I looked up a little IMDb on it.

[01:48:53] They're moving it from 1957, 58 to 1971, I guess. Oh, so the first scene of the second episode mirrors the first scene of the second movie. And I just noticed, I guess all the titles are titles of Friday the 13th movies. So I guess this Nora is someone we're going to meet later in the series, I'm assuming. And, of course, we don't know what this background is that somebody wants to kill her. I just happened to watch... I'm watching the third episode now. Do they change the opening credits each time? Because it seems a little bit different than the first one. I didn't watch the second one, so... That's kind of creepy.

[01:49:22] You could hear that in the background as he's talking. I'm like, watch out, Steve! Get out of there! You like how they're changing the kind of the universe or expanding the universe, I guess. Oh, little Grace is a violent one, isn't she? In episode three now, I don't think I'm going to get to all three episodes for... I guess we're to assume that Pam was able to, because everyone was at the Founders Day thing, she was able to get the bodies out of her house, into the car, get the car to the... take the bodies to the forest.

[01:49:51] Yeah, that's a lot that she did. She's, yeah. I guess now Pam is having some PTSD over killing those guys and leaving them in the woods because everybody's talking about it. And, of course, one of these drunk idiots shoots the other one. And so there is somebody out in the woods or something out in the woods. Oh, easy there, Valerie. You're pissing off the wrong woman. We know what Pam will do. Oh, with the hammer or whatever the meat... Oh, yuck! Oh, and then she burned the whole diner down and the kid was burning herself. This, I'm in.

[01:50:20] But, unfortunately, I won't be able to watch the fourth one now. I'll try to catch up before the end of the week. He seems to be digging it. That's cool. Yeah, he said I'm in, so you did that. Just take... All it takes is a deep fried human. Yeah. And I do suspect, hopefully, we'll see Nora next week or the week after. Pam's friend on the phone from the institution. Oh, yeah. That's right. Yeah. And, yes, they did change the intro from the first episode to the rest of the episodes.

[01:50:50] Yep. All right. That is our show, episode 726. Thanks for listening, everybody. Next episode will be Crystal Lake, season 1, episode 7 and 8, the final two, Friday, and the final chapter. If you want to write in or leave us a voice message like Steve did about it, you can send it to killthemmommy at podcastica.com.

[01:51:15] Or you can leave comments in the podcastica Discord or in our Facebook group. Links in the show notes. And I wanted to ask you guys if you have anything you want to promote because I know you're doing some things. No, that's all right. I was going to say I just recorded with our friend Mark Friday the 13th part 7 on his Pirate Corps Network Adrenaline Cinema podcast. Do you know when that will come out? He said before Halloween. Okay.

[01:51:45] So keep an eye out for that. Just look for Adrenaline Cinema podcast wherever you get podcasts. I'll be interested to hear what you guys have to say about that one to re-watch it again. All right. You don't have to re-watch it. I haven't seen it in so long. I want to watch one of the super cheesy ones. Okay, then watch it. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. Kill them, mommy!