Widow's Bay S1E5 "What to Expect on Your Trip"

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmm... It's in here? Mm-hmm. We-we-we said Wick was gonna take it. Yeah, you're Wick? Oh my god. Oh, oh, oh my god! It's okay, it's okay. Just-just sip it slowly. What? I finished it! I can't be on this! I can't be on this! Not now, not today!

[00:00:30] Make yourselves throw off! I can't! Stay calm. It's only a 12-hour experience. Oh my god! Oh my god! Oh my god! Oh my god! It really is my god. I can't-I can't throw up, I've never been able to. Stop, stop! Oh, come on, Tom! Stop, stop, stop, stop!

[00:01:18] Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast, I'm Jason. And I'm Karen. And this is Wax Episodic. And this episode, we're covering Widow's Bay Season 1, Episode 5, What to Expect on Your Trip. It's a good title, once you've seen the episode. Even better. Yeah, it really is. It really is. So wait, I want to mention we're up to 45 ratings and 13 reviews. Yes! Yes! Apple Podcasts for Everything's Fine and 108 ratings and 41 reviews for Wax Episodic.

[00:01:47] So just quickly, thank you so much everybody. We very much appreciate it. Helps us bring in more listeners. So thank you for that. Thanks everybody! Yeah. So what, were you going to say something? I love this. I love this episode so dang much. I wanted to jump right in. I couldn't wait. You do? Yeah. It was super fun. All right, let me do the plot summary then we'll say our general thoughts. So, Tom enforces a town-wide curfew following Bryce's death, angering residents eager to attend

[00:02:16] firework celebrations. Investigating Bryce's burned rectory, aka church, with Patricia and Wick, Tom discovers a charred page of writing, psychedelic mushrooms, and a phone number Bryce repeatedly called before his death. The number leads them to Todd O'Connor, a self-styled shaman, who explains that the mushrooms induce terrifying visions linked to the island's mysteries. Hoping to uncover the truth, Wick buys a tincture containing the fungus, but Todd mistakenly drugs Tom instead, causing him to hallucinate for the next 12 hours.

[00:02:46] Meanwhile, Wick learns from the restored piece of writing that the island's curse may be tied to a cylindrical pendant buried with Widow's Bay founder Richard Warren. Elsewhere, Evan and his friends visit the house said to belong to the boogeyman, but Bashir stops Evan from entering. Still hallucinating later that night, Tom flashes back to the day Evan was born, when his wife Lauren suddenly lost her eyesight while leaving the island, and contrary to Tom's claim that she died in childbirth, survived childbirth in a catatonic state.

[00:03:17] Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah, that's what happened. So you love this one? I love this one. It was such a fun bad trip. I know. I mean, poor Tom was having a terrible time, but I really enjoyed it. I love that Matthew Reese's performance was wonderful as the kind of the scared, freaked out dude on an intense mushroom trip. Yes.

[00:03:41] Trying to hold together while apparently wanting to go to the office, and a meeting about the curfew, it was just priceless. I'm trying to think, because I've done psychedelics a time or two, and so I like whenever there's an episode like this to judge whether I think the creators have done psychedelics or not, just based on how they portray it, and whether the actor who's high has actually been high.

[00:04:07] And looking at Matthew Reese's performance, I think there's a pretty good chance he knows what it's like. He was delightful. You're just like stuck, like kind of frozen, like a deer in headlights, like, oh my God, it's too much, you know, like that. Can they see it on my face? Can they see it on my face? Is what I'm seeing really happening? Or when he said to her, he's like saying, you know, I'm worried about Evan, and then he goes, can you hear me?

[00:04:35] Like, that just seems like something you would say, you know. Oh, so fun. And so many things about it were great, like Chris Fleming as the shaman Todd. Hilarious. And we got some answers, but, you know, a couple questions too. So, yeah. Not a lot of answers, but that's fine with me. It was a fun journey. Yeah, it was a good trip. It did take us a step forward along on the journey.

[00:05:02] I thought it was, yeah, fantastic. I love a good episode where someone trips on psychedelics. Yes. Like, that happens a lot. I actually have a whole point about it, but it's always fun. Do you really? Yeah. All right. I think you should jump in. I should start with that? Okay. Yeah. I was going to do it last, but I'll do it first. Do it. It's a little bit of a digression, but I think it's fun. So, it was interesting that this was the first episode where there was no supernatural antagonist,

[00:05:29] except maybe whatever the evil at the center of the island is at the end that he hears growling. Yes. But mostly, like, the thing that he had to work against was that he was tripping balls. Yes. You know? Yes. Like, in episode one, we had the fog that stole the souls and the possessed fishermen. In two, we had the haunted hotel and Willie the clown killer. In three, we had the sea hag. In episode four, the cursed self-help book slash grimoire.

[00:05:59] And now it's psychedelic true sight mushrooms that supposedly open your third eye, revealing the island's supernatural forces. And so, the reason why I love shows where people trip out is, well, it's just really entertaining to watch, but it also makes a bad situation worse. And it's just fun to see how people are going to deal with that. Yep.

[00:06:26] So, we just saw some of that on this special episode of Welcome to Derry that was released on Halloween as a surprise. And in that episode, a girl tripped out and saw the cosmic turtle that carries the whole universe on his back. There's a cosmic turtle that carries the whole universe on their back? It's a mature and... I love that. Yeah. It shows up in Stephen King, different Stephen King books. Oh, that's so great. It's cool, right? Okay.

[00:06:55] Then, Crystal Lake, which is the recent Friday the 13th prequel starring Linda Cardellini as Pamela Voorhees, Jason Voorhees' mother. All these hippies were tripping out on LSD in the woods while Pam was going around killing them. Oh, my God! Like, you'd see her, like, stabbing and then somebody else is like, oh, my God! Like, tripping on LSD. What is happening? Yeah. Did you watch Yellow Jackets?

[00:07:23] I watched one season of Yellow Jackets, yeah. Yeah, that season they had... They called it a doom coming party and... What's her name? Misty accidentally dosed everyone with shrooms, which really unleashed their wild, like, island selves. Well, I guess they weren't an island, but wilderness selves. Midsommar, did you watch that movie? Yes. Ari Aster. Yes.

[00:07:48] That one, I felt like, might be the best depiction of what it's like to take shrooms that I've ever seen. Interesting. Where you light your despicable boyfriend on fire again? Yes, exactly. Huh! Just part of the course. No, just the way he would see things shimmering and... Yeah. It just captured how you notice things that you don't normally notice.

[00:08:16] And sometimes things seemed in sync with each other, stuff like that. Yeah. It was really cool. The colors and everything. Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, on a, on a, I don't think you saw, but a later Walking Dead episode, this guy Virgil gives Michonne some kind of psychedelic. And then she has visions of going back to previous events in the series, except she had met the saviors first. So she was a savior. That was kind of cool. Oh, wow.

[00:08:46] I wish I'd seen that. Yeah, that was a good one. Uh, there was a great Sopranos episode where Tony takes peyote in Vegas. Oh, it's amazing. An amazing episode. Yeah. I don't think he's in Vegas proper at that time. Doesn't he drive out to like... The desert. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he, you know, I, I don't remember exactly, I remember loving that episode, but he collapses on the casino floor laughing. So he is in the casino. Yes, you're right. You're right. You're right. Right. Sorry.

[00:09:16] Then he goes, he's, uh, watching the sunrise in the desert and yelling, I get it. And you don't know what he got, but he got something. I got a few more on lost lock took hallucinogenic paste and a sweat lodge, I guess. Um, in mad men, Roger and Jane took LSD at a dinner party and he opens a bottle of liquor and here's orchestral music coming out of it. It's the best episode. It is the best episode. I love that.

[00:09:46] Then there's Simpsons where Homer eats some Guatemalan insanity peppers. Yep. And then he sees a, he sees a giant butterfly, a stream transform into a snake and start eating itself. The sun fall and shatter. Marge blow away his powder and a space coyote voiced by Johnny Cash. Yeah. Yeah. And that's his spirit animal. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. That was a great one. Right. I love that. It really, really was.

[00:10:12] So I was just, you know, thinking about psychedelics and how, you know, the whole reason why Tom, well, Wick was going to take it is to see if it would reveal something about the island to him. And tripping on psychedelics can absolutely prompt you to see things in new ways and notice connections or nuances of things that you hadn't noticed before.

[00:10:36] You can hear, if you listen to music that you know very well, you'll hear things in it that are actually in there that you never noticed before. Um, you can get insights about yourself, your relationships and things like that, that you hadn't thought because it, it like connects, um, neurons in your brain that don't necessarily don't usually connect, but it can also make you feel extra sensitive, which is the funniest thing about Tom having to deal with the townspeople yelling at him.

[00:11:05] That would hurt literally. Yes. Yeah. Or, and you know, on the downside, they can make you feel super paranoid. They can make you feel delusional, especially if you take too high a dose or you're just not a good mindset. So I don't want to like advocate for them, but just kind of in the interest of harm reduction, I would say some important things are to be in a relaxed and stable mindset.

[00:11:29] If you're anxious, it's not a good time for it, uh, to be in a safe space where you're comfortable and you don't have any responsibilities. Uh, to have people that you trust around you, uh, preferably people you love around you, um, to know exactly what you're taking and what the right doses and not mix things. And Tom had none of those. He had Patricia for a little while. For a while until she bailed.

[00:12:00] No, she didn't bail. She was taken down to the police station to give a statement. Sorry. He was on his leash. Yeah. She had a lot of leash with crayons. I love that. She tried. She tried. Yeah, she'd be a good mom. Yeah. He didn't want to stay in, in, um, the peace. What was it? The peace center? Um, AKA his bedroom. The, yeah. Slubby unmade mattress. Right.

[00:12:29] It was so great. Because Tom's thing is he wants, I mean, not Tom, uh, Todd. Was that his name? The drug dealer? The shaman? Yeah. Yeah. He wants to seem all profound and mystical and important and not just some drug dealer dude who sells, who also sells cocaine. Shamans don't typically have cocaine. I don't think. Deal in Coke. Right. That's what was so funny about him.

[00:12:58] Oh, he's so good. I loved, loved, loved Chris Fleming in this episode. Oh, you know him? I don't know that guy. He is a comedian and, uh, he's done lots of other things. Um, I haven't seen many. Um, but, um, he is so, uh, he was so delightful in this episode. All his choices were just perfect. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, would I call this another perfect episode? I think so.

[00:13:26] The scenes with Evan, I bother me because he's so such a dick, but it's also real and I understand where he's coming from. So I think that's still good. Like I still, it's not an imperfection. It's just not fun to experience. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, and I think Evan is understanding a little bit, maybe not even understanding it, but just gets a sense of it.

[00:13:56] Um, that his dad is lying to him. Um, he, he knows he, he, his dad won't let him leave the island. He's incredibly strict and controlling, um, and not very good at it, by the way, being controlling because Evan's like, yeah, whatever. Um, he, he knows that. And we know now that, that Tom actually is lying about Evan's mom because Evan's mom didn't die in childbirth. Something else happened.

[00:14:25] And we learned that later in the episode. Yeah. When we get the flashback. Yeah. Her, they were in a boat getting ready to leave the island. We presume she's very pregnant. She's in labor. Yeah. I don't know if she had labor on the boat or they took her back because she, we, it's hard to tell, but something was wrong. She couldn't see. And then they took her back. She says, I've, I, I can't see, I can't see.

[00:14:49] She loses her vision, which is interesting because the, it was the opposite of the mushrooms. The mushrooms were called true sight, um, or at least that's what the old timers call them. And it promises to open your third eye and that it'll show you things. So the mushroom is all about having vision and seeing things. And, uh, as Lauren is getting farther from the island, all of a sudden she can't see anything.

[00:15:18] It's just an interesting, interesting thing that is sort of the opposite of the mushrooms. Yeah. And so she ends up back and the baby's fine, but she's like catatonic. Yep. Which, yeah, you wonder, okay, is she in some institution somewhere? You know, we don't know. Uh, did Tom lie that she's dead at all and what the hell's going on?

[00:15:45] So I was trying to think, okay, the whole point of taking these shrooms was to find out what the reverend saw that made him want to kill himself so that you can deal with it. Right. That's what Wick wants to do. He, he's taking a risk. Like the guy who found this out before wanted to kill himself.

[00:16:08] Plus Todd's friend, Brian has motor problems or whatever, but that's why I, Wick continues to be a hero in my book. He volunteers to take the shrooms anyway. And he's like, Tom, okay, fine. You brought all these tourists here and you, you don't want to do anything about it. That's on you. But so anyway, then Tom ends up accidentally taking them. So I wanted to know, did Tom see anything useful? And the, the most apparent thing is he just kept hearing that low growling sound and then

[00:16:37] it got bigger at the end and it looked like he was looking directly into like the face of the evil of the Island through that black doorway, you know? So he, I think when you wonder what Reverend Bryce meant when he says, I heard it, this is what he heard and he realized that some evil was back and that's why he wanted to kill himself. So Tom now came face to face with that evil. But I also wonder if that hallucination that he had with his wife or it seemed more like a flashback that he was remembering.

[00:17:06] Maybe, maybe that the point of that was that he now realizes that, okay, she became catatonic because we tried to leave the Island. I presume now that she was born on the Island and has never left and that it's true. You can't leave the Island or you'll die. And I think now he fully realizes that, that there's a curse on this Island. Can't leave. I mean, the fact that he's never taken his son off the Island makes me think he already

[00:17:36] suspected it, but maybe now he's really fully dealing with it. I don't know. Maybe I'm just reaching. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I honestly think he's known all along that there's no way that Evan can leave the Island. I think he probably grew up hearing that myth that his dad probably even told him that. And, and so I think he always feared it.

[00:18:00] I think it was confirmed when it screwed Lauren up on the boat as she was leaving the Island and she loses her vision and then becomes catatonic. And we don't know anything more than that at this point. And, um, yeah, uh, I think now, I mean, I think Evan knows that Tom is holding things back.

[00:18:25] And so I'd be kind of a, I'd be kind of a brat to him too, but I get your point where it's tiresome always to have Evan sort of disobey him. And, and in a kind of contemptuous vibe. Yeah. Yeah. As a father, it's hard to watch. I'm sure it is. I'm sure it is. You just want to be like, all right, kid. God, you're so fucking grounded.

[00:18:50] I don't know if I agree that Tom has been fully aware of that in part because he wanted to bring all these people to the Island and whenever Wick and everyone else would talk about the horrors of the Island, he was very dismissive of it. So I got the sense that he was just sort of in denial about the supernatural aspects of the Island. And maybe he had a story that he told himself about why he wasn't taking Evan off.

[00:19:18] Maybe he, maybe his mother did tell him, uh, Tom's ex-wife, Evan's mother did tell him it's important to me that Evan's raised here, which is what Tom told Evan this night. Right. But maybe this is the first time that Tom's realized, okay, the reason why she didn't want me to do that is because the curse is true. I don't know. I just feel like there has to be a reason why they showed us that not just to reveal it to

[00:19:46] us, but to reveal something to Tom too, since these mushrooms were supposed to give him sight into things. Sight. Right. Right. Right. Right. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Did you also know that on his, um, uh, I mean, we could talk about maybe his, his, uh, entire trip. Yeah. Um, as it, as it goes throughout the day, I assume that's one of your points. Yeah. I'm not going to go into, but it's called Tom trying to get shit done while high. Let's hear it. Let's hear it. You go.

[00:20:16] You tell. Okay. Yeah. Uh, let's, let's go back and forth then. Okay. Uh, so, um, the blackout editing, which I really appreciated. Yeah. This, this episode was written by Colton Dunn and I thought it was brilliantly written and brilliantly directed by Andrew D. Young. Just want to put that out there. They're fantastic. And it was really fun editing. And, and I, I really enjoyed the, the blackout editing where we see things as Tom is kind of

[00:20:45] coming to and then fading out and then coming to and fading out. It's like he's in the theater and they're putting all the lights down one by one on his reality. And then he wakes up somewhere else. But I got to say like the closest thing I've ever experienced to that. And I hate to even admit this on a podcast, but is in college when I would drink too much. That's the only time I've ever had where I woke up and people were like, I can't believe what you were doing last night. And I had no memory of it.

[00:21:15] Like, I know I don't do that anymore if anybody's worried, but I'll have a sip or two every once in a while. That's it. But anyways, so I've never experienced anything like that on psychedelics where I had like periods where I was blacked out and couldn't remember anything. So. Right. It just kind of bothers me sometimes when people see certain drugs differently just because they're legal or illegal.

[00:21:42] Like alcohol can be very bad for people and lead to bad outcomes, you know? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. But, you know, he was warned by the shaman Todd that this is a brutal fucking ride. This shit's going to take you where you got to go regardless of if you want to go there. Yeah. It's like LASIK for your third eye. Bless that thing open. I love that. I know. That's a great description. I mean, what if somebody gave you this?

[00:22:12] This is going to take you where you've got to go whether you want to or not. Would you take it? If I felt like I needed to go. Needed to. If I needed something. Yeah. If I needed something bad enough. I mean, it's I have to say that it's seductive. The thought of taking ayahuasca. I've never done that, but I've been interested. Curious. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very seductive.

[00:22:41] I don't feel like I need it, but I am glad that it's there for people who do need it. I mean, that's that's good. You need a better shaman than Todd, though, because he just leaves. Oh, by the way, I have to go, but you guide him. Whatever you do, just don't look in a mirror and then closes the door. There's a mirror right there. His girlfriend's cat absconded. I love that because he goes, do not look in a mirror. And then there's the mirror.

[00:23:09] And then you see Tom looking in the mirror like, oh, shit. Fuck. I loved it, too. And I also love that he said, don't look in the mirror, Wick. Closes the door. Yeah. After it was clear that it's not Wick. Oh, so many funny, funny, funny choices. But I actually did do a whole weekend years ago where it was me and a bunch of other guys and this self-styled shaman. And we all took a massive shroom dose.

[00:23:36] And he played music and guided us through different things. And it was great. Like, I had some good realizations. Yeah. Wow. Wow. That's cool. See? Yeah. But just don't take true sight. I don't know. You've been warned, people. But you know what? It only grows. I don't want to see like Cthulhu or anything. Right. Exactly. It only grows on Willow's Bay anyway. So I think we'll all be fine.

[00:24:06] Well, we're going to take a trip there. It will be a field trip. So he goes to see the shaman and holds out the mushrooms that presumably Reverend Bryce had taken. And that is why Reverend Bryce ran through the forest, looked down the well. Yeah. Has... They probably told him to go to the well or something. He got that vision. Yep. And got...

[00:24:36] Emerged from the forest and told Evan and his friends, there is evil on this island. And then scrawled my eyes open. So something bad happened to him. That was a very, very, very bad trip. So definitely he... I mean, we can assume he took the mushrooms. It makes me wanted to see the next scene with Tom because I wonder how that impacted him to look into that black void and presumably see and hear the same thing.

[00:25:07] Yeah. But I don't remember. So... And I know next week's episode is a whole different thing. So I want to... I hope they do follow up with whatever impact that had on Tom and not just ignore it. You know, I think they'll follow up on it, but I'm curious. I think that you're just going to have to keep watching, friend. Since we do a podcast on it. Good. I'm glad. Yeah. All right.

[00:25:31] I also enjoy that Shaman Todd showed, with a lot of fanfare, showed the handprint drawing and said that it was sacred geometry, but it was just a handprint. I thought that was super funny. Again, wants to be profound and mystical and everything. It's just a handprint. And I also enjoy that when, at one point, Tom snaps out of it and has a crayon in his hand

[00:26:00] and he has been tracing his hand and making the sacred geometry handprint. It was so funny. I like that Patricia knew Tom, too. I mean, Todd. Todd. I figured... I just was kind of thinking, don't they kind of know everyone? I guess there's like 3,000 people. Yeah. But then you go, oh, hey, Todd. I like that. Hey, Patricia. Yeah. Love that.

[00:26:24] I enjoyed also the pet iguana, who's 50 now, so she's getting wanderlust. It's so funny. And so Tom freaks out, doesn't stay in the peace room, wants to go to the office right away, which I think is a terrible idea, but they end up taking him back to the office. So we get these weird perspectives back in the office.

[00:26:51] I loved the shot of Ruth coming at him, and it's one of those Zolly shots, which is, yeah, that when they push in, pull back. He's looking all weird, weirded out. Dale looked crazy. And I loved, yeah, his mouth isn't moving and his hair part looks, or his hairline looks somehow wrong.

[00:27:14] And I loved in that moment how Tom leaned way back in his chair real far. I laughed so hard when at one point Tom sort of snaps to and gives a shriek. And Dale says, oh, God. He's going to, yeah, Dale like had this sort of really disturbed look on his face. Is he okay the whole time?

[00:27:43] He's never seen anyone high before, I guess. Or if you just don't know that he's high, maybe that would be a natural reaction. That would be why, yeah. But when the two with Ruth just sort of growing or sort of out of phase with the background, and then later Dale looking like some kind of a creature or something, a skin suit. That reminded me of a time. This is my last story on this.

[00:28:12] I promise that people are getting tired of it. But at Burning Man, a long time ago, we took some shrooms that turned out to be super potent. And I think that might have been like my second time ever doing it. And Usha was there and she was like, do you actually like see things differently or change? And I was looking at the tent that was all veiny and pulsing in front of me. I was like, yep.

[00:28:39] And then I remember I had one of those old iBooks that were orange, like a toilet seat cover. I don't know if you remember back then, but it was when the iMac came out and they were colored. And I couldn't look at my iBook because it was too orange. The orange was too intense. Wow. It hurt to look at it. I was like, nope, I can't. Sorry.

[00:29:04] That seems like Burning Man would be the worst place to do really crazy drugs because it's already so psychedelic. No, it's like a whole... I remember one time I went up to my friend Andrew and I was like, I figured this place out. It's just one big drug toy. That's the whole point of it all. And he's like, well, that's sort of reductionist, but maybe.

[00:29:29] So the other thing that I thought was great on that trip was on Tom's trip, sorry, was I loved when he was in the meeting. Everybody was yelling at him and he shuts down. And then when he comes back to, he snaps to, everyone's gone. He's holding a dry erase marker and behind him is the whiteboard. And clearly he's written on the whiteboard.

[00:29:58] When I turn around, everyone closed their eyes. Yeah. What happened there? I don't know. Because they were all yelling at him. We want to make this place better than Martha's Vineyard and we put everything into this. And one guy says, let's hear what Loftus has to say.

[00:30:21] And I just thought it was interesting that all these people are now wanting to do what they were sort of seemingly resisting before. At least some of them were resisting it. And I looked it up and the guy who says, let's hear what Loftus has to say. That's Wayne, the owner of the Salty Whale, who was the one who was arguing with him about keeping it open to meet with the New York Times reporter. Oh, yeah. Right? Yeah. It's like, Wayne, come on.

[00:30:50] You were the one who wouldn't even keep your restaurant open before. Now you're pissing and moaning about this curfew. But anyway, I was like, okay, so what happened in between there? I have no clue what happened. He tried to do something and it failed. And it totally did fail because the whole point was to keep this curfew in place and cancel the fireworks. And then later when he's at home, you see the fireworks going off. Yeah, totally. Totally. Oh, there might be a curfew still happening.

[00:31:18] I mean, I don't know. Maybe people are watching the fireworks in their windows. Who knows? I don't think so. I think it was a failure of a day. The whiteboard instruction for everybody to close their eyes was interesting in that it's, again, all about opening your eyes. This whole episode is like your eyes becoming open or closing your eyes.

[00:31:45] Maybe he doesn't want them to see whatever he's looking for. I don't know. Because it's evil. Trying to protect them. I mean, I just thought it was interesting that everybody's resisting him in trying to keep this curfew. And they're saying this is going to stop us from doing what we want to do. And also his main purpose is to protect his son. And his son is like, you're being too controlling.

[00:32:12] So there's kind of a parallel there with the townspeople and the son, you know, that ties it all together. Everybody thinks he's being too controlling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, except Wick, who doesn't think he's being controlling enough. That's right, yeah. I love how Wick, yeah, his relationship with Wick is changing. Now they're partners. Yeah. Cool. Slowly it's happening. Okay, what's your next point? Let's talk about Evan a little bit. Yeah.

[00:32:40] So in the previously on segment, they showed a part where Evan's with some friends and those tourist girls and they're saying, you've never left the island? And so I realize that it is known that he's never left the island. And Tom had lied to the reporter about it. But we know that he's never left the island. So I think that's important. It's an important part of the story now. And that he's mad that his dad won't let him leave.

[00:33:08] But we know that his dad won't let him leave because he thinks he's going to die. That's all out in the open now. We'd been talking about that occasionally on the podcast before. But I would always say, I don't think people know that yet. So I'd cut it out because I don't want to spoil in case people are watching for the first time. But I think it's pretty clear now. I think we can say now that that is what's happening.

[00:33:28] So then Evan, I kind of like how, you know, Evan's so resentful of Tom because Tom, in some senses, and probably from Evan's point of view, is like the one thing that's keeping Evan from doing what he wants to do, to be happy. You know, he just wants to go out and have fun with his friends. And I remember that was the happiest thing that I had in my life as a teenager.

[00:33:54] Luckily, my mom was very, you know, she gave me a lot of freedom. And I'm grateful for that. But I also understand Tom wanting to protect Evan. And that whole thing melds together the real and the relatable with the supernatural. Because part of the reason Tom wants to do it is because he knows there's monsters out there. And also that if Evan leaves the island, he might die.

[00:34:23] But also, he is a bit of an overprotective dad. You know, he's like yelling at him for sneaking out in the very first episode before he even realized that there were monsters outside. So I think it's that real struggle that fathers often have with their teenage sons with the added supernatural element to it is what I'm trying to say. You know, and you can understand both sides kind of. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:54] He's he wants to be a really good dad. I feel bad. I feel bad for him. I really do. But I also understand Evan just wanting to have a life. Have a fucking life, you know, be have friends and go after girls and just have fun and be free and enjoy yourself. And he's over correcting by just being so, like I said, contemptuous and stuff like that.

[00:35:23] But when you're a teenager, you you you have no power. So you get frustrated when you're restricted like that. So I understand it. And also, he just doesn't have the emotional maturity to handle it in a way that's emotionally mature, you know. Right. Right. I understand him, too. So then he's out and smoking with his car. They go to the house of the boogeyman. That was interesting because that ties in with the story that we've known about the boogeyman.

[00:35:51] Well, he actually had a house and they knew where he lived and he was hanging up on women. And then one night went out and flipped out and killed a bunch of them. And then he wants to impress the girls. So he's going to go into the house, which is the worst case scenario. If if if Tom were to see that, he'd be like, this is exactly why I don't want you to go outside. Yeah. Luckily, Bashir busts him before he can he can go inside. He might have been dead. If not. Well, yeah, this island.

[00:36:19] I mean, the boogeyman is there. They said he's buried in his basement under concrete. Is that what they said? That's what they said. But there's just been so many fucked up things going on that I wouldn't want anybody I cared about going into that house. Hell no. And I love that Bashir, Sheriff Bashir says, Evan or whatever he says, get away from the creepy house. And I loved how he told he was honest with the sheriff.

[00:36:48] He's like, I wanted to impress these girls. So I was going to go in. They're off island girls. Yeah. That's exactly the way to deal with authorities as a teenager, by the way. Yeah. You just tell the truth. You just tell the truth. And then he said, can I say, fuck the police as I walk away? No, you cannot. I love that. The fuck you cannot. But then I loved it when he was walking away. The sheriff kind of smiled to himself like he knows what it's like to be a teenager. So that was just a nice moment. Stuck on this island. Fuck you, pig.

[00:37:17] Then they get into the big argument at home, which was, you know, that's the part that's I find unpleasant to watch. But yeah, especially because he goes upstairs and he's retching on his in his bathroom and he's praying to God. Yeah. Just keep my son safe. I'll do anything. And so and that's right after. Yeah. He sees the whole true story of what happened with his mom.

[00:37:43] And I think the point of that narratively was just to show us that it really what's at stake is his son's life. And and he's worried on the island about these horrors that have been coming up, but he can't take them off the island. And yeah, that was just that moment where he starts praying to God and then says, I'll do anything. It really shows you brings it home how important it is to poor Tom. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:07] And I hope that the the island doesn't answer his his prayers instead. I mean, he's here he is saying, God, I'll do anything. I'll do anything. And all of a sudden. Yeah. I've been looking for some sacrifices. Exactly. Exactly. Anything else? Yeah. I want to talk about really quickly. Wick and Jerry at the Historical Society. Okay.

[00:38:37] They're working out the clue. The page comes from Richard Warren's second wife's journal, Sarah Prescott Warren's journal from 1702. And the can I read the quote real fast? Yeah, sure. Yeah. Okay. She says, I do not comprehend the nature of the curse that has fallen on the island. I do know that its heart beats inside the cylinder that my husband wears around his neck. Who will crush my throat? His hands. This plague.

[00:39:06] Death comes for each of us. But I fear to me first. I know not how, but who. Of course, he's here with me. So I say this all in jest. And with that, I retire. I'm just kidding. Just kidding. Okay. Going off to bed. Bye. So it seems like they're saying that she says the curse that has fallen on the island, its

[00:39:36] heart beats inside the cylinder that my husband wears around his neck. Yeah. And she's afraid of death, either possibly from him or something else. The plague. Right. She doesn't know. So it's pretty vague. But what Wick takes from that. Well, yeah. Then Jerry figures out that it's the journal of his second wife, Sarah Westcott Warren.

[00:40:01] And then he sees in the painting of Richard Warren that he has that cylindrical charm hanging from his neck. He could have been buried with it. So it just seems like they're going to go dig up the body just to see. I mean, if the beating heart of the evil of the island is in a necklace, I guess. Yes. Yes. Because what else? Yeah, sure. That's the only lead they have, I guess. You know what? I mean, it's as good as anything.

[00:40:27] They should maybe look for some kind of an expert to help them get that chick from Poltergeist or something. With the Disney mouse voice? Yeah. Yes. I agree. I don't know. Carol Ann. Get away from the light, Carol Ann. But what a trip. I mean, I presume they're going to dig up the body.

[00:40:52] And I was just thinking, you know, we've seen a lot of Richard Warren. There's a museum and there's passages and things. And there's a portrait. More than I'd even noticed first time through. Yes. And it would be a trip to dig up the body of some historical figure that's so prominent. Like, let's go dig up Thomas Jefferson or something like that. Oh, yeah. It really, really would. Yeah. And that has happened.

[00:41:22] I don't know about that. There's a whole word for it. Zooming. Like DNA testing and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's right. Yeah. Yeah. They figured out. Didn't they figure out that Thomas Jefferson had babies with slaves or something? Had children with slaves? Whole families. Yeah. Did they dig up his body for that? I don't know if they dug up his body. I think they did need to because they had ancestors and they could do the ancestral DNA that way. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

[00:41:52] But no, people dig up exhumed bodies for all kinds of different reasons. As a true crime gal, I'm here to tell you, it happens. I like the Wick and Jerry friendship that now we know they used to date, which is very sweet. And they seem to have a very sweet friendship now. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:42:16] In case anyone missed that, they're talking about her father and he says, yeah, he never liked me. And she goes, well, you kept me out too late.

[00:42:54] Yeah. Between the two of them. And that's nice. Probably did remind you of true crime podcasts, right? That part right there. The detective work. Yeah, totally. Totally. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Any notes? Yeah. I do have just a couple of really fast little notes. One is that when Tom was drawing his hand when he was tripping and he's in historical society

[00:43:17] and he's on the leash with the dog collar around his wrist and he's drawing the sacred shape of his hand. At one point he says, give me a paintbrush and I'll tell you everything you need to know. And Patricia dismisses it. She's like, that's nice, Tom. But I was like, wait, no, give the man a paintbrush. Let's hear what he has to say. Why not? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You wonder, yeah, what he was drawing.

[00:43:45] Yeah, what was he referring to right there? Maybe he did know something. Anyway, that was a- Or maybe it would just be more sacred geometry. Right, exactly. Exactly. One funny moment I really loved was at the church memorial for Reverend Bryce. You hear a townsperson, you don't see the townsperson, you just hear him and the townsperson says, I don't get it. I saw him at the Rye just a few weeks ago. He was getting a coffee, I think. Maybe not. We didn't talk. I didn't really know him anyway.

[00:44:15] And then you hear the officiant say, thank you, Paul. Once again, I'd like to remind everyone that it's not mandatory that you speak. So funny. I love that moment. Because it felt pretty somber. You're seeing his picture and it's the funeral and it's sort of dim and sad. And then there's a little joke in there. Yeah, exactly. It was perfect. Perfect.

[00:44:43] And I also love that once again, Patricia is demonstrating that she is a boss when she was in Tom's office and they were calling, trying to figure out who that number belonged to. And it turns out it's to drug dealer shaman Todd. And at first Tom just sort of freezes up and can't pull it together to get what he needs out of this. So he calls again and makes Patricia step up.

[00:45:10] And she's like cool as a cucumber and incredibly composed and gets the information she needs and gets them over there. So bravo, Patricia. Once again, amazing. Yeah. She's got her neuroses, I would say. But she's also extremely capable and full of surprises. Yes.

[00:45:38] I like that she's a painter and a poet and, you know, she has this freaking mobile library and she's in whatever capacity she's working for the town government and she's fucking great. Yeah, she is. Agreed. Agreed. How about you? Any notes? You might've covered them all. Good.

[00:46:01] Just one little thing is maybe Tom being high becomes a little bit more like Wick because he can perceive something horribly wrong, but everyone around him treats him like he's crazy or irrational. You know? Good point. Like make them even more simpatico. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good point.

[00:46:55] All right. Let's get into the news. Just some general news today. Not Widow's Bay, but more about other shows we cover. Pluribus season two has started filming in New Mexico. What? Just started. It's like a year later, right? The shooting is scheduled over a 225 day period. So if you take post-production account, people estimate a mid to late 2028 release.

[00:47:27] So there's that. And then severance, people are saying mid to late 2027. That's like a year from now, maybe a little less than that. For Widow's Bay season two, people are saying early 2028. Wow. So that's like a little over a year. Wow. Man. Man. Why? Why? Why can't they do like they used to do? Anyway, I sing the same thing every time.

[00:47:54] Sometimes I feel like I'm not going to be alive when they finally release the last seasons. Like in 50 years when they release the last seasons of what my favorite shows. And it'll be, you know, I mean, hopefully they'll have extended my life in a jar much, much longer. So I'll be able to enjoy these. Here's a preview of the podcast from that period.

[00:48:23] Hey, everybody. Welcome to our podcast. This is Jason. And this is Karen. What? Why do I sound like this? I don't know. You sound like an old man. I have a head in a jar. I'm all tripled up. Anyway, Pluribus. Can you believe that show? Wow. We're going to be. How many years will we have been podcasting by then? 50. All right.

[00:48:53] 500. And then last, if you are a fan of Welcome to Dairy, I hope you had a chance to watch that surprise Halloween episode I mentioned and then listen to me and Sean talk about it. If you're listening on Wax Episodic, you probably already saw that in your feed because that's where it's at. Also, if you are a Crystal Lake fan, you can hear me, Jamie, and Nathan breaking that down over on Walking Deadcast. And you can find all those wherever you get podcasts or just go to podcasting.com.

[00:49:24] Bunch of good, creepy stuff. And let's get some feedback. Okay. This first one comes from Jolene Abbey who writes, Yo, I think your dad's looking for you. I think we rewatched that bit about 10 times. Matthew Rhys' facial acting is superb. Oh, we forgot to mention that. I forgot that. But he's in the car. Yeah, Evan and his friends are in the car.

[00:49:53] And Matthew Rhys, high as a kite, is putting his hands over his face to try to look in the windows of the car. Through every window, one by one. It's so funny. And the girl that he's like a few inches away is just like leaning back.

[00:50:10] When Matthew Rhys, when Tom opens the door and gets Evan out and puts the girl back in and says something like, I think that's enough of you tonight, little miss. That's all you can come up with. Okay. C4 from Toronto says, episode four, which was last week's episode, the whole grimoire. Thanks for the breakdown of the Mean Girls episode.

[00:50:40] I really hadn't enjoyed it on my original watch. Rewatching with new Patricia appreciation and you guys pointing out all the people with their mouth open moments was added a layer of creepy. Oh, good. Fantastic. Yeah. I'm glad. Watching these with the level of sort of like putting the microscope on it like they do, if it's a really good show, always makes me appreciate it more.

[00:51:07] And then if we can pass that on to you guys, that's really nice. That's what we want to do. Yeah. Nice thing on the cake. Episode five. This episode is peak fun. I've rewatched four times now. I had some weird shroom trips as a teen, so I could definitely relate to the don't look in the mirror comment. One time I looked in the mirror and I saw myself older with graying and wrinkles and stuff. And it's almost exactly how I look now.

[00:51:38] Almost exactly. But it was a trip back then. It was cool. Oh, my God. Every once in a while I look in the mirror when I'm just looking in the mirror and sometimes I'm like, fuck. I know. What happens? I mean, we're going on a tangent now, but when I look at myself straight in the mirror, I'm like, hey, I'm looking pretty good.

[00:52:04] But then every once in a while I'll catch myself in a reflection at an angle or something where I'm not ready for it or on someone's phone or I'll see a picture of myself and I'll be like, oh, my God, I got to work out. I got to get back on that treadmill. It's awful. Yeah. The only saving grace for me is that my eyesight is also sort of fading. Perfect. So that's a blessing. Yeah. No, you look great. What are you talking about? Okay. Thanks. Top five. Thanks.

[00:52:33] Top five favorite moments. I'm back in C4's message here. Patricia not recognizing Todd Connor from school, calling him a drug dealer and Todd saying, no, he's a shaman, but Patricia pointing out the cocaine. So good. Tom realizing he's drunk all the shrooms and that Todd was supposed to give it to Wick. Todd saying, yeah, you're Wick. Don't panic. It's only a 13 hour experience. Oh, yeah.

[00:53:02] And he was also like, it's okay. Just sip it. And he goes, I drank the whole thing. That's funny. The peace center was really sketchy and the bearded dragon just chilling under the pillow. That's Bridget. She's turning 50 soon. It was so random. The mask that the Dale actor was wearing for those close up scenes at the office was too creepy. That was no mask. I don't know what you're talking about. No, I'm just kidding.

[00:53:27] Matthew's facial expression showing how terrified he is of Dale getting up and turning off the lights. Oh, I didn't get that part. Yeah. He tried to turn off the light. He went for the light switch on the wall. It was just like a flat kind of. Oh. Yeah. It was sort of. There wasn't a switch there. So good. At the museum, Patricia telling Tom to use his crayons, then seeing the dog collar on Tom's wrist.

[00:53:55] I think that was actually a child collar, but maybe it was a dog collar. Yeah, you're right. Actually, where would she get a child? It was like one of those leashes that extends automatically. Like a wind up inside of a thing. And Patricia telling him to sit like a dog command sent me through the roof laughing. That's so funny. Notables. Love how shady Evan is. Cracks me up. I love teenagers. So adorable. Such a great mixture of boredom, angst, and wiliness.

[00:54:24] Tom calling the drug dealer and not knowing what to say. This is me anytime I try to make an appointment anywhere. Haha. Phone anxiety. So true. At the museum, Jerry's saying sorry about the mouth teacher coffee breath. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then Patricia says, I didn't get a whiff of that. I only caught that on the third watch. Too silly. Loving your guys' coverage. Yay. Well, thank you. I do dig in it. Thank you.

[00:54:53] All right. Here are a couple calls. Here's one from Jenny Ryan. Hi, it's Jenny. I'm standing in a very echoey hallway. So is it a different place. I just need to defend myself. Is it a rectory? You accused me of lying when I said I was on a movie set and they didn't make me change my clothes because I look like a nerd. I was a perfect loser. It is absolutely true. It was Urban Legends final cut.

[00:55:22] I'm in the opening scene and I'm on an airplane dying surrounded by other stereotypical college students. And everyone else got makeup but me because as I was told when I went to the makeup chair, not you, nerds don't get makeup. Anyway, in that vein, I think you will be getting a lot of calls from people who tell you about how they were like really awkward at parties.

[00:55:51] Because Jason, I really felt for you when you talked about going to that party and the woman was like, what do you want from me? I went to a party when I was in my 20s. It was a Halloween party and I was talking to this woman about something. She asked me about what I did not having a closet because my room didn't have a closet. So I went into details explaining how I like managed without a closet. And then she looked at me and she said, why are you telling me this?

[00:56:19] And I said, because you asked. And she looked at me and she said, yeah, I asked. But it didn't mean I wanted to know. Anyway, yeah, I've grown up now. But I still think about that when I go to parties and I still get anxious. So Patricia, I love you. Anyway, thanks guys. Bye. I used to have a room without a closet. I'll tell you all about it. No, I'm just kidding. But that was fun.

[00:56:49] And so if anyone else has stories of awkward moments at parties, we would love to hear them. Right, Karen? We do. That'd be really fun. I like an awkward person story. All right. Thanks, Jenny. Sorry I accused you of lying. I should have believed you when they said you look like a nerd. Next is Steve Brown. Hello, Wax Episodic. This is Steve. This is me for Widow's Bay Season 1 episode. What is it? What do you expect when you're expecting? Oh, no, no.

[00:57:19] What do you expect on your trip? Oh, I get the word play because they're gathering mushrooms. So it's that kind of trip maybe they're talking about. Oh, my eye is open. I think you mentioned that in the last podcast, right? Wow. Yeah, reverends. Some reverends do wear collars depending on what their faith is. Like, I don't know which ones. Like Methodists or Lutherans maybe. Okay, mysterious. Whoever this reverend made an appointment with. I don't remember this. Okay, so Truesight, some sort of mushroom that even this drug dealer won't take.

[00:57:48] Like, that's powerful stuff, man. Oh, no. Loftus drank the fungus. And the guy still thinks his name is Wick. Don't look at any mirrors. And he shuts the door and there's a mirror right there. And now we're kind of jumping around. I don't remember this episode at all. I didn't either. Now we're hearing, is this the story of the boogeyman, the hang-up calls, and the guy who went out and killed women? Okay, so now the sheriff needs to take Patricia's statement because it's the next morning after the Beach Reads episode.

[00:58:17] Okay, so Wick got this letter that he found in the reverend's office, and now Loftus is still tripping, but he wants to go to this meeting. Of course, another blackout. We have no idea what he said, but he's got a marker in his hand. And has Tom said anything since the mushrooms? Nope. And now the room is in. Oh, and now it's dark outside because the kids are in the car. They're still outside the house, though.

[00:58:45] He's drawing a hand also, but they're talking about Richard Warren and his second wife, right? Okay, so the sheriff stops Evan from going into the house, but is any of this really happening? I don't remember. And where are the fireworks? It's all happening. Fireworks or something? Oh, okay. There's the fireworks now. Oh, now he's having a memory, and his wife didn't actually die in childbirth. Or, I mean, you know, giving birth. Oh, what is this now? The closed caption just said entity. Oh, and that's the end. So, okay, on to next week.

[00:59:13] That was fun hearing Steve laugh all the way through it. Everyone watches with closed captions these days. Yeah. It's kind of amazing. I do second time. David won't let me watch with closed captions. No. It ruins comedy. Because it's all about the timing. I agree with David. But I... Peshaw. Do you watch it more than once? Or just once for this? Because... I watch it more than once. Yeah, I watch it twice and second time with captions,

[00:59:43] so I can make sure... I watch it as many times as I can with closed captions on. Because... I watch everything with closed captions. If I watch something where timing is important with closed captions, it ruins it for me because it'll show the joke before... You know, timing is important in humor for me anyway. Apparently not for you. Yeah. No, no. Yeah, no. Timing. Jokes don't mean anything to me. Kidding.

[01:00:13] Yeah, that's a good point. Oftentimes it's not synchronized and that's not good. They should work on that, the closed captioners. Get the timing right. Get the timing right. Maybe that would help. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I am really addicted to it. I understand that most of America watches with closed captions on, which is astonishing. Oh, really? Yeah. I'm not too surprised by that. It's like 60% of people watch. It really does. Like I catch so much more.

[01:00:41] And sometimes you hear people muttering in the background and you never would have known what they say, but the closed caption shows it, you know? Yes. That's always cool. Yeah. Love it. All right. That is our show. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Thanks, everybody.

[01:01:10] Next episode, Widow's Bay Season 1, Episode 6, Our History. If you want to write in or leave us a voicemail about it, you can send it to ignorethewarnings at podcastica.com. Or you can leave comments in our Discord or our Facebook group and you can chat with us about Widow's Bay or whatever else you're watching or you can tell us your awkward party moments or whatever you want. Links for that in the show note. This episode is made possible by Patreon supporters

[01:01:39] like Maria Lawson, who pledged to support at patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi. Thank you to Maria. Got a couple of new patrons lately, which is cool because we hadn't been for a while and that was probably because I was slacking on the perks, but now I've got this Dexter Resurrection Roundtable Reaction thing going. We did our first one last Friday after the season premiere, season two premiere with Steve and Rebecca on with me and it was super fun and it was a great episode. Good premiere. Was it? Really fun. I think you actually like this show.

[01:02:09] Yeah. It's Rachel and Kelsey will be joining me this Friday for episode two and the week after that could be you if you're listening to me. So patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi. That sounds like fun. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. Can you hear me?

[01:02:38] I wish you'd said it without moving your lips. Can you hear me? All right. Island secrets time. I forgot to mention ahead of time, but here's the part where we have any spoilers that you might not want to hear if you don't want to hear spoilers. So fair warning. Okay. So now's a great time to confirm that we do know who's playing. What's his name? Linkletter. Hamish Linkletter is playing Richard Warren. Yeah.

[01:03:07] And that was the guy at the beginning. Yeah. He was just in Crystal Lake, by the way. He was Jason Voorhees. I don't want to say who he was. Yeah. He was Pamela Voorhees. I don't even want to say that part. He had a prominent role. It's good to see him. So now's a great time to mention that we've been sort of seeing glimpses of him, bits and pieces.

[01:03:35] And next week, I think, is going to be his two-episode arc. And I'm really excited for it. Yeah. See, for me, that episode, I wasn't that into. But now that I've been paying attention and noticing all these little breadcrumbs they've been dropping, I hope that I like it more. But even if, or maybe if I don't, that'll be an interesting conversation between me and you so you can tell me where I'm going wrong. Yeah, I can tell you why you're so wrong.

[01:04:04] Yeah, totally. I'm looking forward to it now because I want to see if I missed something last time because I wasn't paying attention. And to me, it felt like it came out of the blue and I was just sort of confused and didn't understand why they needed to devote a whole episode to that. We're going to see a little bit more now. Yeah. And I love that in this episode, I didn't notice it the first time, but all of the references

[01:04:29] to losing sight, gaining sight, it's all throughout this episode. And it was really fun to watch. And it's going to be fun to see how that's going to play out later on. I don't remember how it does exactly, but it does. And I think, oh, really? Interesting. Okay. I think so. I think the only thing I remember, and I'm pretty sure I'm correctly remembering this,

[01:04:54] is that we do see Sarah Westcott Warren, his second wife, write that passage where she's saying, oh, I think my husband's evil. Oh, but he's right here. I'm just kidding. You know? Just kidding. Okay. Going to bed now. Bye. Bye. Speaking of that, bye. Bye. Bye.