11: "That's Amore" (S2E5)

[00:00:00] Really? You never invited a girl over your dorm room, played naked twister.

[00:00:13] Naked twister?

[00:00:14] Come on, you guys never had one orgy. Just tell us.

[00:00:19] Yeah Cam, do you have orgies?

[00:00:21] Well, only in my dream, Pilly.

[00:00:24] Never a threesome?

[00:00:25] No.

[00:00:26] Oh, not that I recall, right?

[00:00:27] Cameroon would always sleep with the girls that I liked but before I could get to them.

[00:00:30] If I ever told him that I liked a girl, he would swoop in and have sex with them within

[00:00:34] a week.

[00:00:35] Cameroon rude!

[00:00:38] You have a bad case of something called mimetic desire.

[00:00:41] What's that?

[00:00:43] If someone with higher status and you want something, it means it's more likely that

[00:00:47] you want it too.

[00:00:48] You did not have higher status than me.

[00:00:51] Not then maybe.

[00:00:52] I mean, I was smarter than you.

[00:00:57] Maybe you thought that fucking women I had a connection with would make you smarter.

[00:01:02] You guys ever watch each other have sex?

[00:01:04] Oh my God.

[00:01:05] Of course me and he.

[00:01:07] Yeah.

[00:01:08] Harper, what is with these questions?

[00:01:09] I mean it was college, right?

[00:01:10] We didn't have our own room so probably.

[00:01:11] So I guess old habits die hard, huh?

[00:01:17] Hello, welcome to the White Lotus.

[00:01:24] A podcast dedicated to the show, The White Lotus.

[00:01:36] If you need anything, let us know.

[00:01:39] And please enjoy your stay.

[00:01:43] Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:47] I'm Jason and I'm Jenny and I'm Randy.

[00:01:50] In this episode, we're covering the White Lotus season two episode five.

[00:01:54] That's a more.

[00:01:58] It's been a while it feels like right?

[00:01:59] We had a longer because Randy spent the weekend together and I.

[00:02:06] Yeah, we people there.

[00:02:08] We're sticking to the bro code so we learned that from the White Lotus.

[00:02:13] I don't tell anyone what happened.

[00:02:18] And I think the last time we broadcast, that was in Palm Springs, which I didn't mention

[00:02:22] during the podcast, but I just want to say there are a lot of high end gays there.

[00:02:26] But unfortunately they don't have yachts.

[00:02:31] Not they not at least in California.

[00:02:34] But they have luxury condos.

[00:02:35] So that's cool.

[00:02:38] So it's another new episode.

[00:02:41] Things are ramping up.

[00:02:43] Randy, what did you think about this one?

[00:02:46] This one was entertaining, especially going through with a little bit of a fine tooth comb

[00:02:53] because there's a lot of conversations in this episode that are coded and contain

[00:02:58] ulterior motives, which have been what is a lot of fun to pick apart.

[00:03:02] You can kind of some of them are, I feel like obvious other ones are a little more coded.

[00:03:08] So it's really interesting to try and decipher what people are really trying to say.

[00:03:14] You mean coded in a way like that whole plausible

[00:03:19] deniability thing or something else?

[00:03:21] Or like an exact example would be

[00:03:26] Cameron talking about how using food as an analogy

[00:03:31] for why he cheats.

[00:03:33] So he's having a conversation with Daphne and Ethan,

[00:03:38] who know what he's talking about.

[00:03:39] But I mean, with Harper and Ethan, but Daphne doesn't know what he's talking about.

[00:03:44] So there are a bunch of conversations like that in this episode.

[00:03:48] Yeah.

[00:03:48] And I think I mean, like so much in this show this season,

[00:03:54] there's subtext and I think that does sort of play into the whole.

[00:04:00] I mean, plausible deniability isn't the best phrase for it,

[00:04:03] but it's noncommittal where you're saying something that could be interpreted one way.

[00:04:07] If the other person likes it, but if they don't, then you can say,

[00:04:10] no, I didn't really mean it that way.

[00:04:11] You know, and so that's kind of how flirting is a lot of the time

[00:04:15] because you don't want to be super direct because you risk.

[00:04:22] It's a risk.

[00:04:23] So you just sort of say something suggestive

[00:04:27] and then see how the other person responds to it.

[00:04:29] I think what you just said is kind of like that, too.

[00:04:32] I think he was flirting with Harper.

[00:04:35] Yeah. Yeah, there's a bunch of that.

[00:04:37] Again. Yeah.

[00:04:39] Anyway, we don't want to get too deep into it.

[00:04:40] Jenny, what did you think?

[00:04:42] Oh, I thought it was a great episode.

[00:04:43] I mean, a lot of exciting things happened.

[00:04:45] It was a nice five max, possibly literally.

[00:04:51] Or three

[00:04:53] or throughout the episode.

[00:04:57] Yeah, lots of lots of nice naked male ass.

[00:05:02] It was it was good.

[00:05:04] There was a good amount in this episode, actually.

[00:05:07] There was plenty.

[00:05:08] And speaking of that, I was on a plane coming home from Boston

[00:05:12] where all the Zed heads had an amazing weekend

[00:05:15] and I had plans to do my prep on the plane.

[00:05:18] So, you know, about 20 minutes in, I pull out my laptop and open it.

[00:05:22] All right, let's watch the White Lotus.

[00:05:23] And the first thing is Lucia and Albie just fucking away.

[00:05:28] And like I'm like, oh my God, look at her.

[00:05:30] I like I turned in the brightness down

[00:05:32] and I'm skipping past that.

[00:05:34] And then right after that, you see Jack's naked butt

[00:05:38] for what seemed like a lot longer than it probably was.

[00:05:42] Yeah, many Christmas.

[00:05:43] And then by the end of the episode,

[00:05:45] there's Uncle fucking going on.

[00:05:48] I had a similar experience

[00:05:49] where I was doing a rewatch during lunch at work

[00:05:53] and I forgot what happened at the beginning of the episode.

[00:05:55] So I start watching and all of a sudden, yeah, it's Lucia

[00:05:59] and Albie having sex and I was like, I got to close this.

[00:06:02] This is. Yeah.

[00:06:04] I mean, if anybody saw me watching that on the plane, they were like,

[00:06:07] why is this guy watching porn?

[00:06:09] Yeah, there's no explaining.

[00:06:10] No, this is prestige TV.

[00:06:11] I swear. It's HBO Max.

[00:06:15] There's a really good story connected to this, I swear.

[00:06:19] Right. In this case, unlike other porn, the story part comes after.

[00:06:27] All right. So anyway, I enjoyed it.

[00:06:31] Let's get into our points.

[00:06:32] Jenny, would you want to go first or would you like Randy to go first?

[00:06:36] Although first.

[00:06:37] OK. So of course, you should go to the

[00:06:40] the biggest thing that happens, which is the Uncle fucking.

[00:06:45] Yeah.

[00:06:47] Which, you know, Mike White says he's he likes to still shock people with sex.

[00:06:53] And he felt that that was a good set up for it and it definitely was.

[00:06:58] I do wonder how much of a surprise it was.

[00:07:02] I know it was a shock to people to actually see it.

[00:07:06] I mean, I believe I believe the uncle is actually a very respected British actor.

[00:07:12] So to see him, you know, in that position might be

[00:07:17] an interesting different thing for him to do.

[00:07:20] But then again, he's probably had a very long career of God knows what.

[00:07:24] And he's European, so probably less British.

[00:07:29] I still think I'm not sure, but I think

[00:07:32] British TV is more sexual and they have less restrictions than we do here.

[00:07:38] I could be wrong.

[00:07:38] Let me know if you're British and you're hearing this.

[00:07:40] That's my thoughts on it.

[00:07:42] They seem like they're less skittish about nudity.

[00:07:46] It was so. Yeah, I mean, remember, maybe you don't

[00:07:50] you guys don't remember, but there was Benny Hill.

[00:07:54] It's a British comedy and there was always boobs in that all the time.

[00:07:58] You still watch that when I was 13 for the comedy, right?

[00:08:03] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:08:04] I would always avert my eyes.

[00:08:05] Yeah.

[00:08:08] So that was kind of a culmination of various

[00:08:11] incidences in which Jack seems to do like more and more weird stuff.

[00:08:14] Like if you're on a date with this guy

[00:08:17] and then first it seems kind of cool and then he like dine and dashes.

[00:08:23] And I think she's a little too drunk or just too drunk to realize

[00:08:26] to be kind of like, OK, I'm not sure if I meant to that.

[00:08:30] Well, I mean, the whole thing about him too is he's more exciting, right?

[00:08:34] He's boundary pushing.

[00:08:35] He's a bad boy.

[00:08:37] So I think it actually kind of turned her on.

[00:08:41] Well, I mean, everybody has their boundaries, you know, bad boys,

[00:08:45] I know are very attractive to people.

[00:08:47] But you know, there's bad boys in which, you know, you feel like the old

[00:08:50] people at risk are probably you and him.

[00:08:52] And then there's bad boys that are like

[00:08:54] destroying society and hurting other people.

[00:08:58] This is what I mean.

[00:08:58] I'm not sure I'd be like, dude, that's a service worker.

[00:09:01] You just.

[00:09:01] I know.

[00:09:03] I'm just saying I watched her reaction.

[00:09:05] She was kind of thrilled by it.

[00:09:07] She said, I mean, she did have a little bit of that.

[00:09:09] She's like, I would have paid, but you could tell she was like.

[00:09:11] And the thing is we're watching this whole thing with Tanya and Quentin

[00:09:17] and his friends, and it seems too good to be true.

[00:09:21] And we're maybe hoping some of us that it's not.

[00:09:25] There's just a guy who appreciates beauty and, you know,

[00:09:29] saw something he liked about Tanya.

[00:09:31] But there's all these little like red flags.

[00:09:34] And with Jack, he could just be this bad boy who knows how to thrill

[00:09:40] this girl who clearly wants to thrill.

[00:09:42] But also it's like, do you not have money?

[00:09:45] You didn't forget your wallet.

[00:09:46] What is going on?

[00:09:47] It's just another flag.

[00:09:48] And then the uncle fucking is like a big, giant red flag.

[00:09:52] Wait a minute.

[00:09:53] Is that really your uncle?

[00:09:54] I remember when I saw that I was like, I don't think that's his uncle.

[00:09:57] Yeah, it took me a couple of moments after that initially.

[00:10:02] Where I was like, did I remember this wrong?

[00:10:04] I swear he said he was his uncle.

[00:10:06] Yeah, right.

[00:10:08] Well, he did introduce Jack as his naughty nephew.

[00:10:11] Right. Yes.

[00:10:12] And then I remember there was a big discussion the first time

[00:10:15] we watched this in which people were saying, oh, was this unexpected or not?

[00:10:19] Like, you know, when you hear that, do you think like, oh, well,

[00:10:22] that was an euphemism, right?

[00:10:24] OK, now we know they're, you know, this is their party boys.

[00:10:27] And he caught him as naughty nephew because that's, I guess,

[00:10:30] a Italian Sicilian party boy euphemism for, you know, poor,

[00:10:34] poor young man I like to fuck. Right.

[00:10:36] Yeah. And maybe like he's like Jack's sugar daddy

[00:10:39] and it's just that kind of relationship.

[00:10:42] Yeah. We don't know.

[00:10:43] We don't know.

[00:10:44] And, you know, it's it's dark and it's weird

[00:10:48] because I feel like the one thing that makes me get my defenses up

[00:10:52] is not the fact that they're partying so hard

[00:10:54] that they're so rich or there's uncle fucking strange, Louie enough.

[00:10:58] It's that he said he likes to hang out with rich old ladies,

[00:11:02] you know, because that's just weird.

[00:11:04] It's not like, oh, he loves to hang out with party girls. Right?

[00:11:07] No, no, with rich old ladies.

[00:11:09] And for me, that would just be like,

[00:11:11] ah, that just sounds too way too targeted at this point.

[00:11:16] There's no personality type added to that.

[00:11:18] It's rich old ladies who like to dance.

[00:11:21] It's like just rich and old.

[00:11:23] Yeah. Like rich old ladies who appreciate life and

[00:11:26] yeah, what like beauty or something like that.

[00:11:30] Rich old ladies like himself.

[00:11:32] Rich old, you know, party girls like himself, right?

[00:11:35] Or queens. But no.

[00:11:37] And then I mean, and then we started to see

[00:11:40] Quentin is also starting to kind of insult her.

[00:11:43] Right. I think that queen of sleep, correct me if I'm wrong,

[00:11:46] was just him joking with her.

[00:11:48] Yeah. But she bought into it and he rolled his eyes about it.

[00:11:51] Right. So that's, you know, that's not a kind thing to do.

[00:11:55] It's not necessarily what you do with another red flag.

[00:11:58] Yeah. Your new friend that you've been so adoring with.

[00:12:02] But it could just be like playful, you know?

[00:12:05] Yeah, playful and oh, wow, she really believed it.

[00:12:07] And I don't want to embarrass her or something can say anything.

[00:12:09] Yeah, like maybe there's a yeah, the benefit of the doubt could be that he thought,

[00:12:14] oh, she she's going to know I'm joking around.

[00:12:17] And then she didn't.

[00:12:18] And you're just like, oh, OK, well, I'm stuck with this line.

[00:12:21] But he didn't have the look on the face of like, oh, whoops, it was kind of like,

[00:12:24] haha, you know, so so it's starting to look quite dark for Tanya and Portia.

[00:12:31] I still I mean, I think at this point,

[00:12:35] I'm not sure what the fuck is going on.

[00:12:39] Well, it is interesting what are people's, you know,

[00:12:42] boundaries before they start to get nervous?

[00:12:44] I was once traveling through Indonesia, right?

[00:12:47] Alone. So I mean, alone, 20 year old girl traveling.

[00:12:52] And I just remember I met this guy and he seemed cool.

[00:12:54] And he said, let me show you this cool place.

[00:12:56] I'm like, OK, so I went there and it was a cool place.

[00:12:58] And then let me show you that cool place.

[00:13:00] I'm like, OK, and then it started to get dark.

[00:13:02] And then he was like, oh, dear, the buses have stopped running.

[00:13:05] Oh, no. And then at that moment, I was like,

[00:13:08] oh, oh, I could be like totally, totally screwed.

[00:13:12] But he found a nice taxi for me, put me in it and sent me home.

[00:13:15] Right. So it's OK.

[00:13:17] And you could you could tell I was scared, actually.

[00:13:20] And then he got this look on his face.

[00:13:22] I can tell whether it's offended or or humored or something.

[00:13:26] But, you know, he quickly put me in a taxi and sent home.

[00:13:28] But I was like, oh, I don't want to make anyone feel like that.

[00:13:31] Right. I mean, here you've got like

[00:13:35] Quentin's inherited money, seemingly his father died, left him this

[00:13:40] opulent villa.

[00:13:42] And Tanya says it's a good thing that you realize someone has money

[00:13:46] because then you don't have to worry about them wanting yours,

[00:13:49] which at first I thought, oh, how petty of her.

[00:13:51] But then I'm like, no, she's right.

[00:13:53] Like if you if you're wealthy like that, then you have to sort of

[00:13:57] I could imagine anyway that you would question people's motives more, right?

[00:14:01] Because yeah, they may just be being friendly with you

[00:14:03] because they want something.

[00:14:04] So the fact that it seems like I guess not a fact,

[00:14:08] but it seems like Quentin has plenty of money,

[00:14:10] that makes him more trustable.

[00:14:12] Like he doesn't necessarily need anything from her.

[00:14:14] So so yeah.

[00:14:17] And then when they're at the opera, you know, he takes her there

[00:14:21] and he's crying and he's genuinely feeling.

[00:14:25] So you can tell at least seemingly he's really appreciating it.

[00:14:28] He put his hand on hers.

[00:14:29] And I think that just seemed like a gesture of connection.

[00:14:32] You know, they talked about appreciating beauty.

[00:14:34] I can't remember who was after before the scene, but after.

[00:14:38] Yeah.

[00:14:39] So that so there are definitely mitigating factors that are like, OK,

[00:14:43] maybe it is on the up and up and he's just extravagant and exotic.

[00:14:46] And like he has this little party boy that he brings around with him.

[00:14:49] That's OK. It's fine if they're both consenting.

[00:14:53] But then he says like, ask Tanya if she would die for beauty

[00:14:57] and they have this creepy music playing and yeah.

[00:15:00] And it's like, OK, that's weird.

[00:15:01] What the fuck?

[00:15:03] Or you could, you know, remove the creepy music,

[00:15:06] which unfortunately we don't have God to send us a soundtrack to warn us.

[00:15:12] You might just be like, wow, they're getting deep.

[00:15:15] Yeah.

[00:15:16] But it was a place to go with it.

[00:15:19] Like what I would have been like, what do you mean?

[00:15:21] Why are you asking that?

[00:15:22] You weirdo. Yeah.

[00:15:23] I don't think she really fully answers it either.

[00:15:26] But yeah, such a strange question.

[00:15:28] And all of this comes with the pretense of we know somebody dies.

[00:15:32] So by this point in the show, everybody's actions are suspect.

[00:15:38] So no matter what you're doing or like, are you what's your true intention?

[00:15:42] Because I know somebody is going to die.

[00:15:45] Are you that somebody here? Yeah.

[00:15:47] Yeah. Are you gonna die?

[00:15:48] Are you just like every interaction is easy to start questioning like that now.

[00:15:54] I do think it's interesting that Tanya is the one who finds Jack and Quinton

[00:15:59] in this whole situation, you'd kind of assume it'd be Portia who would be the one

[00:16:03] to stumble on like some weird mishap in this location that they're in.

[00:16:10] But instead, it's Tanya who you would almost expect to be

[00:16:14] fairly oblivious to any sort of weird happenings.

[00:16:18] But she discovers it and seems to know like this is weird as opposed to just like.

[00:16:25] Yeah, I'm presuming that Portia got so drunk

[00:16:28] that she just passed out because, you know, a lady who's been told

[00:16:31] that keep your door locked might be like, oh, I'm ready to go up.

[00:16:35] But she must have just passed out and Tanya.

[00:16:39] Well, Jack said, Jack said, I'll be back.

[00:16:41] I have to go do something for my uncle.

[00:16:44] Yeah, which was to have sex with him.

[00:16:46] Yeah. Right.

[00:16:47] But then it wasn't Portia wandering around.

[00:16:49] So I presume she passed out and then it's Tanya wandering around

[00:16:52] because I guess when you wake up, it just might not have taken long.

[00:16:55] I'll be honest.

[00:16:56] Well, Tanya woke up.

[00:16:58] She hears the sounds of sex and, of course, she's like, let me investigate.

[00:17:03] She has some super hearing too, because that's like down the

[00:17:07] high down the hallway in her room.

[00:17:10] She goes through another set of double doors and then around a corner.

[00:17:13] Man, she is.

[00:17:15] It's those echoing plexos, right?

[00:17:17] Yeah, it's sound of sex just echo through.

[00:17:19] We've all been there.

[00:17:22] But I mean, if I was her and I saw that, I think I would just be like,

[00:17:27] oh, I guess that's not as nephew. OK.

[00:17:30] Yeah, right.

[00:17:32] Like, oh, and if I mean, if I mean Tanya, she said she was jealous

[00:17:37] of Portia having sex because it's always about her and that's all she cares about.

[00:17:41] And I Jenny, you were saying you liked her better this season.

[00:17:44] I'm not liking her better.

[00:17:46] But anyway, I would just think

[00:17:51] I would feel bad for Portia.

[00:17:52] I'd be like, I wonder if Portia knows about this, you know?

[00:17:54] Yeah.

[00:17:56] But I don't know if I would make anything more of it than that, just that, oh,

[00:17:59] I guess that they say their uncle and nephew, but actually their lovers

[00:18:02] and whatever, that's fine.

[00:18:04] Yeah. And let's.

[00:18:06] So you know, that's that's like a deal breaker trouble like, oh, red light alarm.

[00:18:11] Let's get out of here.

[00:18:12] Think it doesn't mean they're like murderers.

[00:18:16] It might mean like this isn't going to be the best.

[00:18:20] OK, no, I was just wondering if I could have swore and you can cut this out

[00:18:24] that the first time we watched that you said it was a huge red flag.

[00:18:27] But, you know, if I was Tanya, I.

[00:18:33] Think I would just be like, yeah, these are a bunch of gay guys

[00:18:37] who love to party and now they're there's two of them partying together.

[00:18:42] I think.

[00:18:44] I just remember getting into a big fight with you the first time we watched it,

[00:18:47] and you're like, oh, this is like the fact they lied about that as serious.

[00:18:50] And I was like, no, they're just party boys.

[00:18:52] But yeah, that rings a bell.

[00:18:56] I don't know why after I've seen the whole show that now I feel

[00:19:01] I feel differently or maybe I've lived it up a little bit since then.

[00:19:04] No, I don't.

[00:19:07] You've been to a few palazzo.

[00:19:09] Yeah.

[00:19:12] The opera that they go see is also an interesting opera.

[00:19:19] Clearly, Mike White picks things on purpose.

[00:19:22] It's the Madame Butterfly and it's a turn of the century.

[00:19:27] Nagasaki, where a dashing American naval officer, Pinkerton,

[00:19:32] has chosen delicate Chao Chao Song to be his bride,

[00:19:37] a naive young geisha on the verge of womanhood.

[00:19:40] The clearly smitten and fiercely loyal Butterfly dismisses warnings

[00:19:44] of the lieutenant's ulterior motives.

[00:19:47] When betrayal inevitably strikes and Butterfly must endure both shame and sorrow,

[00:19:52] she decides to take destiny into her own hands,

[00:19:55] leading to one of the most devastating and legendary final scenes in all of opera.

[00:20:00] There's a tone in there of like getting entranced with somebody.

[00:20:06] And not listening to the warning signs.

[00:20:10] And this opera, Madame Butterfly is the inspiration for Weezer's second album,

[00:20:17] which many consider to be their best, Pinkerton.

[00:20:20] And Jenny has said to me, I think that you don't really like it, right?

[00:20:25] Well, when I first heard of Pinkerton and I, you know, realize it was

[00:20:29] pretty much about River as Cuomo's Asian fetish.

[00:20:32] I mean, I was like, of course not.

[00:20:35] Why would I be into like listening?

[00:20:37] I was just I was like, OK, that I'm like not there.

[00:20:42] Out of here.

[00:20:43] You don't need a whole album of it.

[00:20:45] Right. Much less, you know, it's titled after Pinkerton,

[00:20:49] the asshole of Madame Butterfly.

[00:20:52] Yeah, who I'm sure Rivers feels a kinship with.

[00:20:56] God, I mean, you did touch his hand when we went to the concert.

[00:20:59] Yeah, I might have gotten him sick.

[00:21:00] Ha ha ha.

[00:21:01] Ha ha ha.

[00:21:05] Anyway, we are getting way off track, so why don't we go to the next point?

[00:21:09] Huh?

[00:21:10] Randy. Yes.

[00:21:12] So I want to touch on some of the conversations

[00:21:16] that have a bit of subtext to them.

[00:21:19] You mean every single conversation?

[00:21:21] Yes.

[00:21:23] Every line of dialogue.

[00:21:24] Yes.

[00:21:26] This and everything I say from this point on will have a bit of subtext as well.

[00:21:30] The only I mean, I say that and then I remember what Mia said to Valentina.

[00:21:36] No subtext there.

[00:21:37] Yeah, no, it was pretty straightforward.

[00:21:39] No, yeah.

[00:21:40] Anyway, I'm sorry.

[00:21:41] Go ahead.

[00:21:42] So after Harper knows the truth about what happens with Ethan

[00:21:48] the night before or she believes she knows the truth,

[00:21:52] she starts tipping off Cameron a bit and she sort of like trickles out

[00:21:59] little bits of information.

[00:22:00] So when they're sitting at the table and he suggests that they go wine tasting

[00:22:06] and she's like, yeah, let's get drunk.

[00:22:07] Let's find Somali and really rage.

[00:22:11] And from Daphne's perspective, it sounds like Harper is just like,

[00:22:15] wow, I really want to come do this.

[00:22:17] But you can tell that Cameron is starting to pick up on hints

[00:22:21] that maybe she knows a bit more than she should.

[00:22:24] If he's smart, he should realize immediately that she knows everything.

[00:22:27] Yeah.

[00:22:29] It seems like she's at least got a clue.

[00:22:31] I'm sure there could be some some benefit of the doubt.

[00:22:34] Yeah, where he could be like, oh, maybe he just mentioned that we did Mali.

[00:22:38] Right.

[00:22:38] Yeah, he's wondering the extent of her knowledge.

[00:22:40] Yeah.

[00:22:41] But then she starts hitting him with questions and asking if they had ever

[00:22:47] slept with the same girl and whether or not they've ever had an orgy.

[00:22:52] And I think there's two folds here.

[00:22:54] I think she's trying to gauge like, is this a behavior that they're

[00:22:58] repeating? Is this a pattern?

[00:23:02] And also I feel like gently tipping off Cameron to what she knows.

[00:23:07] She's saying like, I am aware that you guys

[00:23:12] well, she straight up says, have you ever watched each other have sex?

[00:23:17] And they I think kind of blow it off, but she follows up with a well

[00:23:23] old habits die hard or something like that, which I think even at that point,

[00:23:28] Daphne starts to be like, wait, what the hell is happening right here?

[00:23:32] But clearly at this point, she has hinted enough to Cameron that she is

[00:23:37] on to them at all.

[00:23:39] I mean, I think, yeah.

[00:23:41] And I think at this point, saying old habits die hard,

[00:23:44] I think that's pretty straightforwardly saying, I know you guys fucked around.

[00:23:49] And I think I think Daphne got it pretty well.

[00:23:53] But she's so good at just immediately just pushing that stuff down

[00:23:57] and being Miss Sunny and Bright and then figuring out a way to do something about it later.

[00:24:01] Yeah, just to make it work.

[00:24:03] Yeah. And I thought it was interesting that it almost seemed like for a little

[00:24:07] bit that Harper and Ethan were sort of double teaming Cam because

[00:24:12] after she asks Cameron if he's ever slept with any of the same girls

[00:24:18] that Ethan has, Ethan says that no, he always swoops in and steals the girl

[00:24:23] that I was interested in and then tells him he has a mimetic desire,

[00:24:30] which means if somebody of a higher status than you has something,

[00:24:34] it makes you more likely to want it.

[00:24:36] And Cameron's like, I like seems to imply that he's higher status

[00:24:44] than Ethan, but Ethan hits him with the like maybe in college you were.

[00:24:48] Like he doesn't say it, but he very much subtly says like, no,

[00:24:52] I think I'm better than you now.

[00:24:54] Yeah, he said, yeah, absolutely.

[00:24:56] I mean, it's just like with the jet skis playing chicken, only it's verbal sparring here.

[00:25:01] I feel like. Yeah.

[00:25:02] And I think Harper like started with him there, like got him with the question.

[00:25:06] So he's like off balance and then Ethan came in at like his lowest point

[00:25:11] and just like hit him with one more jab.

[00:25:13] I was trying to figure why is Ethan saying this about because

[00:25:17] the what he said about Cameron that, yeah, he would find out who I like,

[00:25:21] swoop in and take them.

[00:25:22] That's the same thing that Paula did or that Olivia did to Paula in season one.

[00:25:28] But that's just kind of an aside.

[00:25:30] But just for Ethan to come out with that,

[00:25:32] he's usually just been kind of withdrawn.

[00:25:35] So that was a jab, right?

[00:25:37] A pretty forceful jab.

[00:25:39] And I'm like, why is he doing that?

[00:25:40] And I think maybe it's because he he knows things are off balance.

[00:25:47] He's he's afraid that Cameron will do that with Harper,

[00:25:50] but he knows up until today anyway, that Harper's loyal and on his side

[00:25:54] and their team, but now not so much anymore.

[00:25:56] Now that Harper found out what happened and he can tell there's a rift

[00:26:00] and he's afraid that Cameron's going to take advantage of that.

[00:26:03] And he's right.

[00:26:04] And so he's sort of flailing.

[00:26:07] I think he's kind of scared of that.

[00:26:09] And so he's just trying to lash out.

[00:26:13] That's kind of what I thought was going on.

[00:26:14] Yeah, regain some of the power there.

[00:26:16] Also seemed like he's trying to separate himself from Cameron a little bit,

[00:26:22] if at least in Harper's eyes, because he says that and she looks over at him

[00:26:27] almost impressed, like, Holy shit, I didn't I wouldn't have expected you to do that.

[00:26:31] And if it weren't for everything else that was going on,

[00:26:33] that might have been like a great moment for the two of them.

[00:26:38] But yeah, it's just great that even though it was fleeting

[00:26:41] and only for a moment, it almost felt like the two of them were on the same

[00:26:45] team again, but she's clearly still not quite with him.

[00:26:49] But they both kind of took Cameron down a notch in that scene.

[00:26:53] That was like, oh, it's a cat fight between Cameron and Ethan.

[00:26:57] Even if it was only like a 20 seconds long.

[00:27:00] But you know, I find it interesting, you know, I suspect

[00:27:02] Ethan's kind of been thinking about this for a while since college.

[00:27:06] She's like, oh, man, Cameron, you know, he's pointed out,

[00:27:09] hey, Cameron, if you're trying to sleep with all the women I like,

[00:27:14] I mean, if you truly felt you were superior, you wouldn't do that.

[00:27:17] Right. That's a competitive thing to do.

[00:27:19] And you wouldn't do that unless you felt like you were competing against someone.

[00:27:23] So I think Ethan does have a good point in in pointing that out.

[00:27:27] But it did sound a little defensive to give it such a nerdy name and all that stuff.

[00:27:33] Yeah, yeah.

[00:27:35] Yeah. So that was an interesting interaction between the four of them.

[00:27:40] They really they get drunk, they get open, they talk about sex

[00:27:42] a lot,

[00:27:45] chemistry starts flirting heavily with Harper for a minute there.

[00:27:48] I thought he was trying to neutralize her.

[00:27:50] But I mean, I would get you more in trouble with your wife

[00:27:53] if you're just like totally flirting with the other woman.

[00:27:57] So I'm not sure what's going on there, except I think a lot of hormones

[00:28:01] are kind of on the loose.

[00:28:02] Well, Cameron's compartmentalized.

[00:28:04] He doesn't want Daphne to find out that he's a bad boy.

[00:28:07] But he also I think is on this trip because Ethan made money

[00:28:13] and he doesn't want Ethan to be the high status guy.

[00:28:16] So he's trying to make sure that he still is.

[00:28:19] And all the time he's been flirting with Harper

[00:28:24] and also sort of subtly jabbing him at times

[00:28:28] and insulting him and saying, you know, oh, he was such a nerd back in college.

[00:28:31] And even now we're we dated from a different pool of women,

[00:28:34] which I think means I had more attractive women.

[00:28:36] And I think as Ethan said,

[00:28:40] Cameron would always go after the girls that Ethan liked.

[00:28:43] And now that's Harper.

[00:28:45] So it's just he's always Cameron's always about dominance.

[00:28:49] And that's the biggest dominance play to fuck the guy's wife.

[00:28:53] And so I think that's why he's doing it, especially now that

[00:28:56] Ethan's challenging him openly.

[00:28:58] Then he's going to say, all right, fine, I'm just going to go for it.

[00:29:02] I also find it interesting that, you know, Ethan says that

[00:29:05] and I can tell Harper's kind of like, oh, he finally admits

[00:29:08] there's a bit of competitiveness with Cameron because he keeps saying in the

[00:29:10] past, no, no, no, I'm not doing this because of that.

[00:29:13] Right. Yeah.

[00:29:14] But then she like kind of.

[00:29:17] As you said, she doesn't seem like she's on Ethan's side for that.

[00:29:21] Right. No.

[00:29:23] I think because he fucked up.

[00:29:25] Yeah, he did.

[00:29:26] She's yeah.

[00:29:27] I think part of the problem or not part of it.

[00:29:30] The problem is that he waited to tell her what was going on.

[00:29:34] And he did.

[00:29:35] We know he told her what happened at the beginning of this episode,

[00:29:40] but generally that.

[00:29:42] Yeah, she doesn't know that that's the truth.

[00:29:44] And generally that type of admission feels like trickle true thing

[00:29:48] where he wouldn't say anything initially.

[00:29:50] And then this morning she was finally able to be like, look, I have some

[00:29:53] evidence and he's like, all right, well, this did happen,

[00:29:57] but I wasn't the one who did it.

[00:29:58] And somebody approached me and I said no,

[00:30:02] and then he also says like, oh, you should feel really good that.

[00:30:07] Yeah, what?

[00:30:09] What a stupid thing to say right then.

[00:30:13] I mean, it's like as you said, trickle truth, right?

[00:30:15] Oh, she tried to kiss me.

[00:30:17] I mean, there was outright kissing between the two of them.

[00:30:20] So I feel like no, they were like, yeah, it just they kissed for like a second.

[00:30:26] He didn't like immediately put his hand be their lips touched.

[00:30:30] So yeah, no, there was like smooching.

[00:30:33] It was smooching for I don't think so.

[00:30:35] It was in the pack.

[00:30:36] I don't think he was ever into money.

[00:30:40] I mean, he was drunk.

[00:30:42] He was pretty.

[00:30:43] It was sloppy.

[00:30:44] It was sloppy smooching.

[00:30:45] Yeah, I was trying to think, you know, where did he go wrong?

[00:30:49] Because he did go to his room and they came like, let us in, let us in.

[00:30:55] And so he tried to kind of get away.

[00:30:57] But he shouldn't.

[00:31:00] I mean, the biggest thing he did wrong.

[00:31:01] Well, I don't know if it's the biggest, but one big thing he did wrong

[00:31:04] was when Harper asked him about it, he didn't tell her and he he he did lie.

[00:31:08] He says he didn't.

[00:31:09] But he he the way he handled that, that was a lie.

[00:31:13] He was like, yeah, we met these people in the bar and talk to them.

[00:31:18] But yeah, I mean, he misrepresented what happened, which I think is

[00:31:23] I think he did even a little worse than a live bio mission

[00:31:25] because he kind of painted it a different way than he actually was, you know.

[00:31:29] But also he never should have taken drugs with prostitutes.

[00:31:38] He he he should have never promised Cameron

[00:31:43] that he wasn't going to tell his wife.

[00:31:46] But once he did make that promise or tell him that he would

[00:31:49] and then Harper started asking about it, he should have either just told her

[00:31:53] or probably the best thing would be go to Cameron first and say,

[00:31:56] look, she's asking about so I'm going to tell her and then go tell her, you know,

[00:31:59] not just stay loyal to Cameron.

[00:32:02] And so he really fucked up big time and he's trying to paint it like

[00:32:08] he's good because he didn't sleep with him.

[00:32:09] Well, yeah, he didn't fuck up in the most worst possible way.

[00:32:12] But right. Yeah, he really did fuck up.

[00:32:15] But like she says he spent the night doing Molly with

[00:32:19] escorts or with sex workers or whatever she's like.

[00:32:23] There's like even if like just describing that sentence, if you came home

[00:32:28] and you're just like, oh, yeah, I spent the night doing drugs with

[00:32:32] sex workers like that's not that's not what your wife wants to hear when you

[00:32:36] come home. It's like, yeah, yeah.

[00:32:39] I mean, like if if either one of us did that, it wouldn't be good for the

[00:32:45] Oh, I shouldn't say how you would feel.

[00:32:47] But if I found out you did

[00:32:50] ecstasy with some male prostitutes and I didn't know anything about it,

[00:32:54] I wouldn't be happy about it,

[00:32:57] especially if you lied to me about it the next day.

[00:32:59] I mean, that would make it a lot worse.

[00:33:01] But if I didn't lie and I was like, but dude, this is what we didn't

[00:33:04] call it all the time. Oh, I'm sorry.

[00:33:06] You know, we're hanging out with, you know, hey, this is this is Joe.

[00:33:11] It might be something to talk about at that point.

[00:33:13] And if you said, you know, I didn't do anything sexual, then it might be OK.

[00:33:17] It might be. But I could see for most couples that it wouldn't, you know,

[00:33:20] and I don't think that's a bad thing that specifically for this couple.

[00:33:24] Yeah, this couple.

[00:33:26] But I think it was a big breach of trust on Ethan's part.

[00:33:30] And now Harper's not that broke something between them.

[00:33:34] And now she's more like I'm saying Cameron is there just to

[00:33:40] put him back in a one down position, Ethan.

[00:33:42] And a big way of doing that is to take Harper away from her, at least just sleep

[00:33:47] with Harper. And now I think I've already laid out all the reasons why

[00:33:51] subconsciously or semi-consciously that might be attractive to Harper,

[00:33:55] like that Ethan's just this big dud who watched porn instead of sleepers

[00:33:58] with her and that he's sort of supplicates sometimes and stuff.

[00:34:02] But now there's another reason for Harper to maybe be attracted to

[00:34:06] that idea because she's not so bonded with Ethan anymore.

[00:34:09] And this could be a way to get back at him or just say fuck it or whatever.

[00:34:14] And I think that Harper is kind of also learning from Daphne this whole time.

[00:34:19] Daphne's telling her, hey, if they do something, we just should do what we want

[00:34:24] or do what it takes to make ourselves feel better about it.

[00:34:27] So Daphne doesn't realize this, but she may be coaching

[00:34:32] Harper to sleep with her husband.

[00:34:34] Yeah.

[00:34:35] You know, Daphne's the worst person in this situation to go to for advice

[00:34:41] on this situation, both for herself and for Harper.

[00:34:45] But I think Harper's behavior today is a lot in part

[00:34:49] inspired by Daphne.

[00:34:50] She's seen how Daphne deals with a Flandre or deals with Cameron

[00:34:57] who's broken her trust is by just sort of keeping that

[00:35:01] Joie de Viva and figuring out a way to just turn it on the situation rather

[00:35:05] than to shrink away from it.

[00:35:07] And Harper is just drinking up a storm and being like, fuck it,

[00:35:11] I'm just going to do whatever.

[00:35:12] And I feel like there's a little Daphne energy in that, not exactly the same,

[00:35:16] but kind of maybe inspired by it.

[00:35:18] Yeah.

[00:35:18] Yeah.

[00:35:19] She's asking questions and talking about things she wouldn't have talked about before.

[00:35:23] It's probably all things that she's had in her mind,

[00:35:28] but does a good job of controlling herself.

[00:35:30] And in this situation, she is like, screw it, you know what?

[00:35:33] This would normally be an uncomfortable conversation

[00:35:36] and we're going to have an uncomfortable conversation.

[00:35:40] Yep.

[00:35:40] I did notice that Daphne and Harper did an edible.

[00:35:45] So it's not like they were saints in their villa in Noto.

[00:35:51] I don't know.

[00:35:51] These days to me, that's like drinking a glass of wine,

[00:35:54] especially it's just the two of them.

[00:35:56] Well, she also mentioned it, right?

[00:35:59] Yeah.

[00:35:59] Like, hey, yeah.

[00:36:00] Right.

[00:36:01] And then Ethan doesn't, doesn't, you know, reciprocate with with his truth.

[00:36:07] So it's really hard to believe anything Ethan says after this point

[00:36:11] because you're like, OK, so you had two prostitutes in our room

[00:36:16] and they were actively having sex and one of them kissed you

[00:36:19] and you're just telling me you were just sitting in the bathroom door

[00:36:23] watching the whole time.

[00:36:24] And then even that's like, oh, so you just you watched our friend

[00:36:29] have sex with two women?

[00:36:30] Like that's also a weird place to be.

[00:36:33] It's like none of this, no matter how he spins it, it's not good.

[00:36:38] Like the best thing would have been to shut it down when they came to the table.

[00:36:42] But Cameron's kind of an alpha to Ethan.

[00:36:46] So there was no way he was going to be able to take control

[00:36:49] of the night without completely removing himself and just going to bed early or something.

[00:36:55] And when Harper was asking like, oh, have you guys slept with the same girl?

[00:36:59] I actually thought she was asking Daphne and Cameron.

[00:37:04] I was like, oh, OK, OK, she's like gauging their sexual proclivities.

[00:37:07] But then it's about Cameron and Ethan.

[00:37:11] Aubrey Plaza has said in an interview that Harper is an agent of chaos

[00:37:17] for a chaos agent.

[00:37:18] And as we've been watching this, I've had that in my mind and I'm like,

[00:37:22] not really, no.

[00:37:23] And then this episode, oh, yeah, this is what she met.

[00:37:26] Yeah, yeah. Spurned things on, you know?

[00:37:29] Yeah, kind of.

[00:37:30] She knows they have a rivalry.

[00:37:32] So yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:34] She's stirring things up.

[00:37:36] And we see Daphne and Cameron making out a lot like I mean, they're just

[00:37:41] smooching away at first I was like, that is so not realistic.

[00:37:44] And I married a couple with kids.

[00:37:46] But then, you know, she mentions that she doesn't seem camera,

[00:37:49] doesn't see Cameron much.

[00:37:50] So, you know, this could be there spending more time together than they ever have

[00:37:54] over the past year.

[00:37:57] She also mentioned when Harper is bringing up what Ethan has done.

[00:38:04] The big thing about her trainer, shall we go to the trainer

[00:38:08] conversation?

[00:38:10] So when Harper points, you know, asked Daphne what she does when she thinks

[00:38:17] Cameron is cheating on her, she, you know, says it isn't a big deal.

[00:38:20] You do what you have to do.

[00:38:22] And then she starts talking about her trainer, how he's blonde with blue eyes.

[00:38:27] She shows off her phone picture and there is a blonde blue eyed little boy

[00:38:33] and another baby that is of indeterminate coloring, which could be, you know,

[00:38:38] anybody, anybody's kid.

[00:38:40] But it does seem like they're hinting that this older child could possibly be

[00:38:45] the child of the trainer because blonde blue eyes.

[00:38:48] Strongly hinting.

[00:38:49] So yeah, so this time I think the first time I watched it, that was

[00:38:54] more of what I was picking out from this conversation.

[00:38:58] But this time I watched and I actually did not get that,

[00:39:02] which you just now reminding me I'd had that thought.

[00:39:04] But I had been wondering more if she was saying, like, I have a trainer

[00:39:08] that I do stuff with, let me show you a picture.

[00:39:11] And then she hands Daphne the phone and it's her kids.

[00:39:14] And I was taking it this time as a way of her saying, like,

[00:39:18] this is what I'm living for.

[00:39:20] Do not screw up my marriage by like pursuing this any further.

[00:39:24] It almost felt like not a threat, but like Daphne saying, like, yeah,

[00:39:29] I know what's going on.

[00:39:30] And these are the two reasons I'm not going to like implode my marriage

[00:39:37] or something like that.

[00:39:38] And you know what?

[00:39:38] I agree with you completely.

[00:39:39] I just remember the first time I watched it, that was exactly what I thought.

[00:39:43] And then there's later after I don't get it pointing out the coloring.

[00:39:47] That's later when my brain started to switch.

[00:39:49] So Harper tells Daphne she thinks something happened, meaning Cameron

[00:39:53] and and Ethan cheated with women when Harper and Daphne were in Nodo.

[00:40:00] And Daphne says, you know what she always says, if they if it did happen,

[00:40:04] then do something to make yourself feel better about it.

[00:40:07] And then she goes, I have this really handsome blue eyed trainer.

[00:40:11] And so I don't understand how that leads into the rationale that you just said.

[00:40:18] So I almost I might be like jumping a bit here, but I almost feel

[00:40:23] like she's flipping through her phone and she's telling her this story.

[00:40:28] That's sort of like, here's what I do to make myself feel better.

[00:40:32] But then I feel like she changes her mind, not changes her mind, but her intent was to.

[00:40:39] So OK, I got to back it up a little further.

[00:40:42] I think the reason Daphne and Cameron are kind of working at this point

[00:40:46] is because they have an unspoken understanding that they don't talk

[00:40:51] about the things Cameron does or the things she does.

[00:40:55] They both seem to do kind of crappy things, but she they cheat.

[00:41:01] They cheat and she just goes off and does whatever she wants.

[00:41:04] It's almost like a Cold War where like if one of them were to mention it

[00:41:08] to the other, it might destroy their marriage if they actually started

[00:41:13] addressing these problems they're having with each other.

[00:41:16] So I think Harper pushing all day and trying to bring Cameron's bad

[00:41:24] behaviors to the forefront is a threat to Daphne.

[00:41:28] Daphne does not want her marriage and her lifestyle and her kids lives ruined.

[00:41:33] So I kind of took the passing of the photo of her kids

[00:41:37] to Harper as a subtle reminder that like this is who I'm thinking about

[00:41:43] during all of this, and I don't want you to mess that up for me.

[00:41:47] That wasn't the vibe I was getting because I didn't get any.

[00:41:50] I didn't get any like, hey, you're going down a road.

[00:41:53] You shouldn't go down.

[00:41:54] It was more to me.

[00:41:56] The vibe was you do what you need to do to make yourself OK with this,

[00:42:01] which, you know, and she's always said that you do what you want.

[00:42:04] Daphne has you do what you need to do.

[00:42:06] And then she said, I have this trainer.

[00:42:09] He's hot. He's got blue eyes.

[00:42:12] Why mention the blue eyes if you're then going to show a blue-eyed kid?

[00:42:15] Yeah.

[00:42:16] The strong, clear implication to me is this is how far it's gone.

[00:42:21] I've actually had a son with my lover and I, you know, she said,

[00:42:26] I spend more time with him than Cameron sometimes.

[00:42:30] So they're really focusing on it.

[00:42:31] And then she said she didn't want to come right out and say it.

[00:42:35] So she just pretended it was an accident.

[00:42:37] But really that was her point that look how far this game that I play

[00:42:41] is like this is how far I've taken it, which is kind of like

[00:42:44] a empathic, honestly.

[00:42:46] Yeah. And then she said right after that, I think you should get yourself a trainer,

[00:42:50] which means get another guy that you can cheat with so you can make yourself

[00:42:54] feel better about what Ethan does.

[00:42:55] I mean, this is why I like white letters so much.

[00:42:58] You can interpret it either way.

[00:42:59] Because I do remember now the first time that that happened,

[00:43:02] I remember being like, dude, if I was Daphne, I would do the same thing.

[00:43:05] I'd be like, hey, bitch, this is why.

[00:43:09] I'm in this.

[00:43:09] I know you think this is a fucked up situation, but it's Daphne.

[00:43:13] So she would do it in the sunniest, happiest way.

[00:43:16] Yeah, like it was an accident.

[00:43:18] Like come on, you know, yeah, I know you don't.

[00:43:20] You think this is a weird situation?

[00:43:22] You young innocent new wife of a newly rich man.

[00:43:28] But here you go.

[00:43:30] So that was my first initial thought.

[00:43:32] It was only after, you know, months of thought that I and people

[00:43:36] pointing out that the child was blonde and blue-eyed

[00:43:39] and all the genetic thoughts and all that stuff that I started to think,

[00:43:42] oh, maybe it is deeper than that.

[00:43:43] But it could be, you know, it could be either to be both.

[00:43:45] It could be, you know, it's so they.

[00:43:47] So Megan Fahey, who plays Daphne and Theo James were on some talk show.

[00:43:54] They asked if Daphne's trainers, the biological dad to this kid.

[00:43:59] Yes, James replied instantly before clarifying no, not both of them.

[00:44:03] Fahey said the blonde and James agreed.

[00:44:06] Oh, interesting.

[00:44:09] So, yeah, I got that the first watch.

[00:44:12] I didn't pick up on it as much this time.

[00:44:14] But part of that is because the way she's describing the trainer

[00:44:18] slightly changes halfway through where she's like he's really good looking.

[00:44:22] He's got blond eyes, blue hair or blue eyes, got blond eyes and blue hair.

[00:44:28] The other way around.

[00:44:29] But then she says and he's a cutie, like she has this like little

[00:44:32] giddy thing and that sounded more like she's describing a child.

[00:44:37] And then she hands over the phone and I may have been giving it way too much

[00:44:44] subtext credit, but I thought she was saying like when you need to get yourself a trainer,

[00:44:50] she was saying more like you need to find a reason to make this OK, which I maybe

[00:44:59] may be shooting or stretching a little bit here to make that work.

[00:45:04] So one thing I thought was interesting was,

[00:45:07] you know, Daphne is kind of like Bert's wife, right?

[00:45:11] That we I don't want to say too much, but we're at that conversation

[00:45:15] between Dominic and Bert and they're fighting over the infidelity of each

[00:45:19] generation and what it means.

[00:45:21] And there's a little bit of blaming from Dominic to Bert.

[00:45:25] And Daphne is a lot like Bert's wife.

[00:45:27] Like why does she why does she stay? Right?

[00:45:30] Except, you know, Dominic points out that his mom was a bitter woman,

[00:45:34] which was interesting because Bert's like, oh, no, she loved me.

[00:45:37] And then Daphne is a different woman.

[00:45:38] She's definitely way sunnier.

[00:45:41] So I just find it interesting that, you know, there's infidelity, but people do stay.

[00:45:47] And I think it's probably easier to stay when your spouse is super rich

[00:45:51] and you can do whatever you want, like rent a villa in No.

[00:45:54] Versus God knows what it was like being Bert's wife, but she did stay.

[00:46:00] Let's see.

[00:46:01] Well, Dominic and Bert are arguing at dinner about cheating.

[00:46:05] And Dominic says Bert had affairs and it made his wife's life hell.

[00:46:09] And Bert says, if I made her life hell, why'd she stay with me?

[00:46:13] And Dominic's like, I don't know.

[00:46:15] And Bert says, I loved your mother and she loved me.

[00:46:18] It's not that simple. Yes, it is.

[00:46:20] And it's of course not.

[00:46:22] And I think that this seems like a pretty cut and dried clear.

[00:46:27] I would think to pretty much anyone who's not Bert that in Bert's time,

[00:46:32] it was less socially acceptable to get a divorce.

[00:46:35] And women tend to be financially dependent on men and also were socially

[00:46:40] conditioned to accept this kind of cheating bad behavior.

[00:46:45] And Bert's in denial, if he thinks that if his wife had been more

[00:46:50] empowered that she'd have still accepted his behavior and stayed with him.

[00:46:55] So that's kind of what I had in my head about this whole thing.

[00:46:57] But you're right, Jenny, like the whole thing with Daphne and Cameron

[00:47:02] is a bit of a parallel to that because it shows how a modern couple,

[00:47:05] at least this modern couple deals with cheating.

[00:47:08] And maybe you could say some of the same forces at play that Daphne

[00:47:12] because it sounds like she's at home while he's working.

[00:47:15] So maybe she's a she doesn't work.

[00:47:17] And so maybe she feels trapped, but she doesn't come off like she feels that way.

[00:47:23] She I don't know, though.

[00:47:26] I don't really know if she feels trapped just like possibly Bert's wife may have.

[00:47:31] But I do know I mean the way Dominic described his mother, Bert's wife,

[00:47:35] is that she was resentful and cried herself to sleep

[00:47:40] and just seemed clearly unhappy.

[00:47:43] Daphne on the other hand, like I said, has this juat of Eva.

[00:47:45] So she's like just always got a sparkle in her eye.

[00:47:50] And she when she, you know, talk about the bad news of the world comes up.

[00:47:56] She's like, Oh, no, it's not so bad.

[00:47:57] So she just kind of wants to turn every situation into

[00:48:02] something that she can feel good about.

[00:48:06] And so I almost think it's not about her feeling trapped while she stays.

[00:48:11] I think she actually loves Cameron and he loves her,

[00:48:14] but she doesn't like his behavior, but she wants to make it work.

[00:48:17] So she just feels like the best way to do that is to cheat herself.

[00:48:22] And there but there's a little bit of

[00:48:27] I mean, you know, they have that whole game playing thing

[00:48:29] when about her going to no, no and kind of rubbing in his face and knowing

[00:48:33] he wouldn't like it. So it's weird.

[00:48:35] Like I don't I don't know any couples like that.

[00:48:38] And I don't even know if that's a real thing.

[00:48:40] I almost feel like they're both a little psychopathic too.

[00:48:44] But but I do think I really strongly think, especially just reading

[00:48:49] what these actors said in the interview that she that's how fucked up

[00:48:53] it gets with her reaction to Cameron is that she

[00:48:58] purposefully slept with her hot trainer and had kids and has

[00:49:01] him has this kid right under her husband's nose just to kind of know

[00:49:05] in her heart that ha ha you fuck her like you think you're getting away

[00:49:09] with something look what I'm getting away with.

[00:49:11] Yeah. So that's how the modern couple deals with it.

[00:49:15] She does mention in one of the previous episodes too, that

[00:49:18] the kids are harder for her than they are for him.

[00:49:22] And it's like a quick throwaway line because they start talking about

[00:49:26] the birth and how that was difficult.

[00:49:27] But it does seem to imply that like Cameron might not be as involved

[00:49:32] with these kids either.

[00:49:33] So there could be a degree of him laying like maybe being tipped off

[00:49:37] to that a little bit and not wanting to interact with the kids as much.

[00:49:41] So he works a lot and he's never home.

[00:49:44] And so he suspects you mean?

[00:49:46] Yeah, yeah, to a degree possibly.

[00:49:49] But I think the problem is they can either of them can admit

[00:49:53] knowing any of these things to each other because that will shatter

[00:49:57] their entire system.

[00:49:59] I mean, you have to lie.

[00:50:01] I remember thinking like how could any couple, you know, be like this?

[00:50:07] But then I started to think of how our mental gymnastics can allow us

[00:50:12] to accept many situations to think what if Cameron had met this hot

[00:50:18] single mom named Daphne, who had a one year old kid from her ex-boyfriend.

[00:50:24] And then he's like, oh, well, she's hot and I like her.

[00:50:26] We like each other and they get married and have another kid.

[00:50:28] I mean, that happens all the time.

[00:50:29] So yes, it may seem kind of weird that she's fucked another guy

[00:50:32] and had a kid while married to him.

[00:50:35] But you could if he's OK with it.

[00:50:39] Rationalize it. You can rationalize it that way.

[00:50:41] Yeah, yeah.

[00:50:43] Which I think when Daphne describes what they do as a game

[00:50:47] is also her rationalizing it and saying like, no, this is a mutual thing.

[00:50:51] We both like it's what makes things work.

[00:50:53] And it's like, no, actually, I think that's the dysfunction in your relationship.

[00:50:57] But by giving it a cute name like, oh, it's a game that we play with each other.

[00:51:02] It makes it seem like it's OK.

[00:51:03] And it's actually fun. Good thing.

[00:51:05] Yeah. Yeah. And I guess if you let you let me fuck all 100 prostitutes,

[00:51:09] you can still keep fucking your ex or your trainer.

[00:51:13] I guess that's the unspoken deal here.

[00:51:16] I feel like with Daphne, because she does sort of underplay

[00:51:22] the darkness of things, she could be fucking a hundred guys too.

[00:51:27] You just don't know what to believe with her for sure.

[00:51:29] I'm not saying, oh, yeah, she's just as culpable.

[00:51:32] That's not what I mean.

[00:51:33] But I'm just saying it's hard to read her.

[00:51:35] Yeah, she plays things very close to the chest.

[00:51:39] Yeah, right. Until she decides not to.

[00:51:41] Yeah, I mean, the very first alone time she had with another woman,

[00:51:45] she basically admits all of these problems in her relationship.

[00:51:50] So it does make you wonder, like with Bert's wife,

[00:51:54] it was obvious to other people that she wasn't happy.

[00:51:56] But maybe it's obvious to all of Daphne and Cameron's circle

[00:52:00] that she's also not happy because every time she gets alone with one of them,

[00:52:04] she does at some point spill the beans a little bit.

[00:52:07] So it's just a circle of everybody lying, basically.

[00:52:11] I remember when I first met Daphne, I remember thinking like, OK,

[00:52:14] this character is very extreme.

[00:52:17] But at the same time, I've always wondered about wives of extremely rich men.

[00:52:21] I mean, the sort of hoops they must jump through,

[00:52:24] they must be like beautiful and personable and charismatic

[00:52:29] and have great taste and somehow keep that guy's interests.

[00:52:33] Right. I mean, and she is pulling it off.

[00:52:36] You know, I think it takes a certain kind of superwoman to do that.

[00:52:40] And that's why I identify more with Harper,

[00:52:43] because she seems like a totally normal person who's just like,

[00:52:45] you asshole, what did you do last night?

[00:52:50] Oh, that's your college roommate that you don't like.

[00:52:54] That's tough. I mean, I'm way more petty or can't go.

[00:52:58] I can't operate at the level of Daphne.

[00:53:01] Yeah. All right.

[00:53:02] So we move to the next point, Jenny.

[00:53:04] OK, so I'll go back to the family dynamic with Dominic and Bert.

[00:53:09] So we see Dominic, you know, walking down the beach

[00:53:11] and seeing happy families, happy couples.

[00:53:14] And you can tell that that's what he wants, but he doesn't have

[00:53:18] because, you know, the family that was supposed to be together on the strip

[00:53:22] is not together on the strip.

[00:53:23] And his wife hates his guts.

[00:53:24] And I thought it was interesting that he saw like a young couple in love.

[00:53:29] And then he saw a family.

[00:53:31] So that's a little bit later stage.

[00:53:32] And then he saw an old couple.

[00:53:34] So it was like this is the life of three quick things

[00:53:39] wanted to wish he had. Yeah.

[00:53:41] Yeah. He doesn't want to lose.

[00:53:43] And so then he starts blaming Bert saying, oh, I never got a role model,

[00:53:47] you know, about how to be a good husband.

[00:53:49] I'm just kind of, you know, to be honest, I was just like, oh, you're full of shit.

[00:53:52] And, you know, there's plenty of guys who had, you know, shitty dads

[00:53:56] and they like make sure their entire life is the exact opposite.

[00:54:01] So they don't actually follow.

[00:54:03] Which is sort of what's happening with Albie at this point. Right.

[00:54:08] Except he's sleeping with prostitutes.

[00:54:12] No, he's in love with a prostitute.

[00:54:14] She wants to save.

[00:54:16] Yeah.

[00:54:18] Oh, I just thought it was interesting that he pointed out how the mother was bitter.

[00:54:23] And it just made me realize that that resentment

[00:54:27] that Bert was completely unaware of, who didn't care about spilled over and affected his son.

[00:54:33] I mean, like, you know, Dom, Dominek must have been like,

[00:54:36] I have to deal with this really unhappy woman and my dad isn't.

[00:54:42] Mm hmm.

[00:54:43] So I just found it interesting that infidelity can affect the children in more ways than you realize.

[00:54:51] And I mean, like he's saying Bert blames Dominic's behavior for Albie being with Luchia.

[00:54:57] But then when Dominic says he's the way he is because of Bert,

[00:55:01] he says, that's ridiculous.

[00:55:02] So it's like, well, can you do it or not?

[00:55:06] But I feel I shouldn't.

[00:55:10] But I do feel for Dominic, like he's saying you never showed me how to be intimate

[00:55:14] and put others first and had a love of woman.

[00:55:16] And he says, you know, I don't blame you for my situation, but I sure fucking could.

[00:55:20] So I don't know.

[00:55:21] I guess he kind of played lip service to not blaming him.

[00:55:24] But I think ultimately you have to take responsibility for yourself.

[00:55:27] But there's also truth, the idea that kids are impacted by the behavior

[00:55:31] that's modeled for them by their caretakers.

[00:55:33] And I think about that with my kids all the time.

[00:55:37] And I know I didn't have the best models in a lot of ways.

[00:55:41] I think actually TV helped me because I saw some better models on TV

[00:55:45] than I was seeing in my own house, you know?

[00:55:49] I don't know.

[00:55:50] But that's it.

[00:55:51] I feel like that could potentially apply to this, the generations being shown

[00:55:56] in this too or like might have been better had he had as sad as it sounds

[00:56:02] as like a role model that came from TV as opposed to his family.

[00:56:07] Yeah, like Richie Kynoham's parents, they were wholesome and loving.

[00:56:11] And you know, I saw that in some way.

[00:56:14] I mean, I think there's some truth to that.

[00:56:16] Like even with like Will and Grace showing gay relationships,

[00:56:19] I think helped make it more acceptable to people around the country, you know?

[00:56:23] Yeah, exactly.

[00:56:24] Dominic has no excuse.

[00:56:26] He's in TV.

[00:56:29] He obviously watched a lot of TV.

[00:56:32] He's too behind the scenes with it.

[00:56:34] You should have seen that and been like, that was good.

[00:56:36] That's what I'm going to do and not be like my shitty dad.

[00:56:40] He got into TV too late.

[00:56:42] He should have been into TV when he was a teenager.

[00:56:46] But yeah, it does feel like he is at this point in his life, realizing

[00:56:54] that he has been doing everything incorrectly, which is unfortunate

[00:56:59] because he's already had a family.

[00:57:02] So he's messed that up and he is seeing like, oh, it's because of my dad that

[00:57:08] or one of the reasons is because my dad was not displaying a correct way

[00:57:13] to be in a relationship with another person.

[00:57:16] So I followed that and now he's at an age where he's realizing like,

[00:57:20] oh, I've made a mistake where as Bert is even older and he's just like,

[00:57:24] no, I made no mistakes.

[00:57:26] Like I did everything perfectly.

[00:57:28] And I mean, let's not forget that Dominic is already at a point with his wife

[00:57:33] where she just rages at him over the phone.

[00:57:35] Right? He's she hates him and he does not want that.

[00:57:40] And yet on this trip to Italy that they were supposed to go on together.

[00:57:44] He has called ahead of time.

[00:57:46] I found this website with this prostitute on it and set up a meeting.

[00:57:50] So he's not just like post fuck up.

[00:57:55] Sorry, he's mid fuck up.

[00:57:57] Yeah, exactly.

[00:58:00] And I can't remember honestly, and I don't want to talk about it because no spoilers,

[00:58:03] but what happens with his character in the next two episodes?

[00:58:06] So I'm really curious to find out.

[00:58:08] Yeah, true, actually, I'm I'm in the same boat.

[00:58:12] And it seems like Albie is pre fuck up.

[00:58:14] So we have pre, mid and post.

[00:58:20] I think their their conversation that they're having at the table

[00:58:25] is pretty hilarious that each of them knows Luchia and Mia are sex workers.

[00:58:31] But to some different degree, they're all trying to pretend they don't.

[00:58:36] So Albie in the conversation is he knows she's a sex worker,

[00:58:41] but he doesn't want his dad and Bert to know he knows their sex workers.

[00:58:46] Dominic knows their sex workers, but he doesn't want Albie

[00:58:49] to know he knows that because he slept with them already or hired them.

[00:58:54] And Bert knows that they're sex workers because he knows that Dominic

[00:58:59] had an evening with them.

[00:59:00] And it's just they're all having this conversation and all pretending

[00:59:04] on different levels that they don't know something about the situation

[00:59:08] when they all have almost the exact same amount of information.

[00:59:12] A very funny conversation first.

[00:59:14] I mean, I think Bert is protecting Dominic

[00:59:17] because he could have said like, oh, because I heard your dad and then fucking.

[00:59:21] Yeah, he almost did.

[00:59:22] I think he got caught.

[00:59:24] Yeah. So he had to be like, I can just tell.

[00:59:27] Which I'm surprised, you know, Albie didn't accept because he

[00:59:30] Albie was just like, oh, was I supposed to pay for this?

[00:59:32] You would think Albie would be kind of like, I obviously don't know

[00:59:34] what's going on with this world.

[00:59:38] Paid sex. I don't know the rules.

[00:59:40] Yeah, it's interesting to me too.

[00:59:42] I feel like I was thinking more about Albie and how I was mapping him

[00:59:46] onto this whole thing about the nice guy.

[00:59:48] And I think a quote unquote nice guy.

[00:59:51] And I think he I was right about some of that, but maybe I was a little off

[00:59:54] and something you said, Jenny, about him being having a savior complex.

[00:59:59] Got me thinking about it more.

[01:00:01] And I think the idea with him in this show is it's about the different

[01:00:05] views of society among the generations.

[01:00:07] And he's super sensitive, progressive guy who doesn't want to offend anybody

[01:00:11] and wants to protect the marginalized and the oppressed.

[01:00:14] Right. And so the problem with that can be that he may go around

[01:00:19] treating everyone like a victim who needs a white savior or who needs a savior.

[01:00:22] Right. And it can be insulting to someone like Portia.

[01:00:25] She doesn't want to seem like she's fragile or a victim.

[01:00:28] She wants somebody to throw her down on the fucking bed.

[01:00:30] So anyway, I think, yeah, that's a little bit more nailing what he's all about.

[01:00:36] And he doesn't want like he doesn't see any problem with going to sex workers

[01:00:41] as far as like sexual shame or anything like that.

[01:00:44] The problem is if you're cheating on someone by doing it

[01:00:47] or if you're enabling this system that where they maybe are doing the sex work

[01:00:54] because they feel like they have no other choice and they don't really want to do it

[01:00:57] or something like that, you know.

[01:00:59] Or if somebody else is forcing them into it, which is what he's

[01:01:02] he's believing is happening right now. Progressive views.

[01:01:07] So that that type of view can also make you a very easy mark as well.

[01:01:12] That's right.

[01:01:14] And there's one thing I want to quickly go back.

[01:01:16] I realized I forgot to mention about Harper that

[01:01:21] when Cameron touched her leg and she brushed him away,

[01:01:28] but didn't seem that upset and keeps telling her story

[01:01:32] about whether she was a bad girl in college.

[01:01:34] I wasn't a bad girl, but I had fun.

[01:01:37] So to me, that's like no, no, no, but maybe, you know,

[01:01:41] like I'm still having fun with all this.

[01:01:43] And then what's notable is when she pulls Daphne aside to tell her

[01:01:48] she thinks something may have happened last night,

[01:01:50] she does not mention that Cameron just touched her leg.

[01:01:52] Yeah, she does say in the I was a bad girl in college,

[01:01:57] but I think she emphasizes in college like she's saying like not now

[01:02:03] a little bit. Yeah.

[01:02:05] Yeah, I mean, so Harper a day earlier

[01:02:09] probably would have said, what the hell are you doing?

[01:02:12] And then I'm like, he just touched my legs.

[01:02:14] So something has changed within that day where she's like

[01:02:18] not 100 percent shooting down what is happening there the way she would have.

[01:02:23] So part of it is that she's super drunk, I'm sure.

[01:02:26] Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[01:02:28] But yeah.

[01:02:29] And I also in that chunk of conversation,

[01:02:32] Cameron says like jokingly to three sums of the future

[01:02:36] and he looks right at Harper and she looks back

[01:02:40] and then the leg thing happens after that.

[01:02:42] But that's also when he explains to her his reasoning for

[01:02:47] cheating is like it's like gorging on food.

[01:02:52] You're so full and you say, I'll never do this again.

[01:02:54] But you know, a little bit later, you're hungry again.

[01:02:57] And I think all of these these reasonings are maybe starting to chip away at her.

[01:03:03] And she's starting to see it as like, all right,

[01:03:06] maybe this is OK or something along those lines.

[01:03:10] So I remember the first time I watched this show,

[01:03:13] I was like totally anti-camera team and I just could not believe Harper found him

[01:03:17] in any way attractive.

[01:03:19] And even when this scene happened, I was just like, oh, man, this happens all the time.

[01:03:23] Some creepy guy touches your leg and you're just like, hey, brush him off.

[01:03:27] And, you know, so I just thought that was the way it was for this scene.

[01:03:32] But you guys are seeing a lot more attraction or some something going on between the two.

[01:03:38] So we will see what's going on.

[01:03:39] But I do feel like creepy guys touching your leg and then you brush them off

[01:03:43] is something that happens fairly confidently in one's lifetime.

[01:03:49] Yeah, I don't think the attraction is like your classic love story attraction either.

[01:03:54] It's more of a like this is something I shouldn't want, shouldn't have.

[01:03:59] And that's kind of what's doing it.

[01:04:00] I don't think she's like.

[01:04:01] I don't even like this guy.

[01:04:03] Yeah, but it's that whole animal thing where he's the.

[01:04:08] I don't know.

[01:04:09] I've already talked about it before.

[01:04:13] But I'm also realizing as we're talking about this,

[01:04:16] one reason why I don't think I like this season as much as the first is

[01:04:20] I like the characters less.

[01:04:22] I don't like Cameron.

[01:04:24] I don't really like Daphne is OK.

[01:04:28] Harper's kind of.

[01:04:30] Annoying Ethan, super annoying.

[01:04:35] Tanya is really annoying.

[01:04:36] Albie's OK.

[01:04:38] He's pretty good.

[01:04:39] I think Lucia Lucia, how do you say it?

[01:04:43] She's OK, but I don't know.

[01:04:47] She takes advantage of people.

[01:04:50] I don't like that.

[01:04:51] Mia, I think I do like she's probably the one that I like the most.

[01:04:55] Yeah. So.

[01:04:57] I don't need to like all the characters, but.

[01:04:59] Angry. Yeah, she's fun to watch.

[01:05:01] But yeah, I think one of the differences I was noticing

[01:05:06] during this episode is that in the first season,

[01:05:09] we do have the benefit of the doubt of believing

[01:05:12] all of the people are nice, good, friendly people

[01:05:17] and their lives are all put together and then it's slowly being like peeled back.

[01:05:20] Whereas in this basically in the first episode,

[01:05:23] we know that they all have like flaws

[01:05:27] and we don't really get a chance to like them as much right up front.

[01:05:32] Like we know Dominic hired

[01:05:35] sex workers, even though he's married and like

[01:05:38] there's this off relationship between Cameron and Daphne and Ethan.

[01:05:44] And like none of them are there.

[01:05:46] Like you nobody there seems like they're going to have a good vacation.

[01:05:51] And that I think is kind of a difference where you're like already primed to be

[01:05:56] like, yeah, I don't know if I can like these people.

[01:05:59] So and I don't but I and I always say I don't need to like the characters

[01:06:03] and I and I am I like flawed characters too.

[01:06:07] But yeah, no, sometimes it's just not as fun to watch.

[01:06:12] I'm having fun watching it, but I don't know what I'm having a lot of fun watching.

[01:06:16] It's just such a beautiful show.

[01:06:17] I'm come on, we just went to a beautiful palazzo.

[01:06:20] We get to see nice naughty nephew ass.

[01:06:23] We see the end of the distance.

[01:06:25] We get to sail on a yacht.

[01:06:28] I mean, I'm having a great time.

[01:06:31] Yeah, it's definitely an entertaining story, but I can see where the like

[01:06:35] characters aren't as they're not as likable.

[01:06:39] There were more quirky in the last season where these maybe feel too real.

[01:06:43] Is the other thing?

[01:06:45] There's some that are more fun than others.

[01:06:47] But let's move on to another some other characters or something.

[01:06:52] Or what else have you got, Randy?

[01:06:53] I think it's your turn.

[01:06:55] So I wanted to talk.

[01:06:57] Well, actually, let's hop over to Valentina and the people in her orbit.

[01:07:03] Orbit. Wow.

[01:07:05] Orbit. Her orboard.

[01:07:09] I feel like in the first season, I actually hadn't picked up on the fact

[01:07:13] that she might be gay until it was like said outright.

[01:07:19] And this this time through, I feel like I'm a little more aware.

[01:07:23] Well, obviously I'm aware of it, but it feels like characters are aware

[01:07:27] and people watching and viewers have seemed to be more aware.

[01:07:31] So I'm kind of curious why other people picked up on it much better than I did.

[01:07:37] I didn't pick up a bit until she started flirting with Isabelle.

[01:07:40] With Isabelle.

[01:07:41] OK, yeah.

[01:07:43] Yeah, let's see if we start buying jewelry from your co-worker.

[01:07:45] It's like, yeah, so inappropriate.

[01:07:51] But yeah, I mean, we've touched on her interaction with Mia, where

[01:07:57] it's interesting that Valentina has been a character this whole season

[01:08:01] who really quickly and almost ruthlessly shuts down

[01:08:06] any advances made by men to her.

[01:08:10] But Mia, like the men that we've seen her make advances have been like,

[01:08:15] hi, what's your name? And she's like, no, screw you.

[01:08:18] Leave me the hell alone.

[01:08:19] But Mia comes up and is basically like, hey, want to have sex with me?

[01:08:23] And she's like, she doesn't think about it.

[01:08:26] Yeah, she doesn't turn it down.

[01:08:29] But yeah, she is she.

[01:08:32] I'm guessing maybe it's just never been in this situation before,

[01:08:35] but it's interesting to see who has kind of been shown as a strong

[01:08:41] assertive character suddenly be like put on the back foot and seem like

[01:08:45] she doesn't know how to respond in this situation and almost like almost like

[01:08:50] a awkward. Yeah, like a high.

[01:08:52] Yeah, yeah, a high school kid.

[01:08:54] It's just been told somebody has a crush on them and they're like,

[01:08:56] I didn't know that was possible.

[01:08:59] But I mean, yeah, like you said, she's so

[01:09:03] just shuts guys down ruthlessly for like trying to chat her up.

[01:09:09] And then she goes and does that to Isabel.

[01:09:12] Yeah, she's the one doing the chatting.

[01:09:14] And she's saying, I know Rockwell makes you uncomfortable,

[01:09:16] but I mean, we don't really know how she makes Isabel feel for sure here.

[01:09:20] Isabel seemed pretty upset that Rockwell left, but

[01:09:24] but it's sort of ironic and it's interesting because people do have

[01:09:28] that lack of self-awareness sometimes.

[01:09:30] Yeah, that they're doing the exact thing that they've

[01:09:35] complained about from other people.

[01:09:36] Well, she does that a little bit more to Rocko too, when she tells him

[01:09:41] he's going to be moving to the beach club and she says,

[01:09:44] oh, you'll look great in the uniform and you'll be able to flirt as much as you want.

[01:09:49] And it's like if the genders were reversed there,

[01:09:53] that would be a much creepier comment to say.

[01:09:56] So it is interesting that she

[01:09:59] she's sort of approaching people the way a traditional man would in like media.

[01:10:05] Absolutely. And and but it's interesting because I think

[01:10:09] probably a lot of people watching the show didn't take it that way.

[01:10:12] Yeah, but yes, if this was a male character,

[01:10:15] people would be taking it a lot differently.

[01:10:17] Yeah, yeah, buying jewelry for, you know, or yeah, for an employee.

[01:10:21] And yeah, it's really interesting for sure.

[01:10:25] I do like she gives when she asks about the

[01:10:30] the piece of jewelry on Isabella and she says, oh, it's a star on a star.

[01:10:36] Like she does turn into this little like high school kid who has a crush.

[01:10:41] But Rocko like looks over and gives a confused and like someone.

[01:10:45] Yeah, he's almost like a cringy like look like, oh, you really said that?

[01:10:51] Like and I just love how quickly

[01:10:55] Valentina can shift between her like looks of detest and contempt

[01:11:00] and then look back over at Isabella, be this awkward love struck teenager.

[01:11:04] And it could just happen quickly from one to the other when those three are together.

[01:11:08] I think it's hilarious.

[01:11:10] Just depending on where she turns her head, change her attitude completely.

[01:11:16] But I do love that she does let Mia eventually play.

[01:11:21] Mia wears her down a bit and she does not.

[01:11:25] She never directly addresses Mia's offer.

[01:11:29] She says this conversation is over, but she doesn't say like,

[01:11:34] I'm not interested.

[01:11:35] She doesn't say like, don't talk to me like that again.

[01:11:40] And she gives Mia what she wants.

[01:11:42] So I think to some degree, you could assume like, all right,

[01:11:47] well, there's got to be a give back and forth here.

[01:11:50] So maybe she didn't say yet.

[01:11:53] But yeah, that seemed to be what made the difference.

[01:11:55] And I was just thinking about this, but we're talking about how it's interesting

[01:11:59] that this guy at the coffee shop, Valentina could take one way and shut him down

[01:12:03] and then kind of do the same behavior or similar anyway towards Isabel.

[01:12:06] And then with Mia, it's similar to like Giuseppe propositioned her

[01:12:12] to sleep with him to get a job.

[01:12:15] And she threw a drink in his face and then she goes over and propositions.

[01:12:19] Valentina, right?

[01:12:21] Does the same thing to her.

[01:12:22] Like if I sleep with you and help loosen you up, then you could do something for me.

[01:12:26] Right. If you're like, she says, you and I could have some fun.

[01:12:29] Don't be so rigid. That's your problem. You're like a rock.

[01:12:32] I can loosen you up a little.

[01:12:33] If a man said that, how sleazy would that sound?

[01:12:36] Yeah, it would.

[01:12:38] Well, Mia is just a quick learner.

[01:12:40] I mean, she was. Yeah.

[01:12:41] What are you doing, Lucia?

[01:12:42] To like, oh, let me try that on Giuseppe.

[01:12:45] Let me try that on.

[01:12:47] I'm Valentina.

[01:12:49] She also says to Giuseppe in the other episode, you know, why do men have all of the power?

[01:12:54] So I feel like Mia is finally like she's finding her power

[01:12:58] and she's really going for it and using it in every way that she can.

[01:13:02] And I think maybe to a degree, Valentina sort of starting to do that as well.

[01:13:07] Maybe not for actually, you know, I don't know if I would say for good or bad either of them.

[01:13:12] They're just using it and, you know, she's getting rid of Rocco and

[01:13:17] seems to be pursuing Isabella.

[01:13:20] And yeah, they're both characters who are trying to take their power back from men a little bit.

[01:13:26] I respect like Isabelle.

[01:13:28] I'm not Isabelle.

[01:13:31] Mia, like I said earlier, that was the one conversation that had no subtext.

[01:13:36] And I as much as I just said how sleazy with that sound coming from a man,

[01:13:42] I respect her just being so straightforward about it.

[01:13:45] Like, hey, I see you have this need.

[01:13:47] I can fulfill it and you can fulfill my need.

[01:13:50] And when she was saying that, Valentina had this

[01:13:55] stony look like you couldn't read.

[01:13:58] And I think the first time I was watching this thought

[01:14:00] she was going to just suddenly go get the fuck out of here, you know?

[01:14:04] But she's like, OK, and I don't know how realistic that is.

[01:14:07] You'd think you'd see at least a hint that she I don't know.

[01:14:10] It was just so hard to read what she was feeling.

[01:14:14] But it was kind of moving in a weird way, like, oh, she's opening up

[01:14:19] to this idea of actually letting herself have something

[01:14:21] that maybe she's wanted for a long time or something. Yeah.

[01:14:24] And, you know, when Mia made that offer,

[01:14:26] I have a feeling Mia knew could go either way.

[01:14:28] I mean, she she's just like, I've got nothing to lose.

[01:14:31] You know, I'm just going to go up to this hardcore check.

[01:14:34] I can just be like, hey, what do you think? Right?

[01:14:36] And I thought interesting was that the end of when she was trying

[01:14:40] to convince Valentina when the sex was not getting a yes or no.

[01:14:44] She did say like, oh, come on.

[01:14:46] It's kind of like I think she kind of said, like, let's do it for a womanhood.

[01:14:48] Or, you know, like, yeah, you like women so how you say you like women?

[01:14:51] Why don't you help one? Yeah.

[01:14:52] Right. Maybe that's what did it, right?

[01:14:54] We don't know. And she's just like, fine, you get two days, right?

[01:14:57] Yeah. So.

[01:15:00] And I'm glad that Mia, she's saying that's a more which is

[01:15:03] an old Dean Martin love song and she sang beautifully.

[01:15:06] And I'm glad that she's it's consistent.

[01:15:09] She seems to have a repertoire and she's super talented.

[01:15:13] And I think it's interesting that it's just this

[01:15:17] as far as I know, I didn't listen too close to the lyrics,

[01:15:20] but I think it's just a very straightforward love song.

[01:15:23] Yeah. And that's a more a meanwhile, we're just looking at all these fucked up

[01:15:28] situations where people are cheating and lying and his bike white sort of

[01:15:32] winking saying that some more.

[01:15:34] Yeah, that is it right there.

[01:15:39] Yeah, I've had her tippy tippy toe, tippy tippy toe stuck in my head all day.

[01:15:47] That's awesome.

[01:15:49] All right. I think it's my turn, right?

[01:15:51] You good, Brandy? Yep.

[01:15:54] Well, one thing I want to say about that is Mia said, you know,

[01:15:58] oh, you're gay, right? I'm a little gay too.

[01:16:00] I think all women are and I thought about that and people have said they enjoy

[01:16:04] when we tackle the tough subjects.

[01:16:06] So I don't agree with that, I think.

[01:16:11] But I think we're all on a spectrum of gayness or not, you know,

[01:16:15] attractions, right? It's one to seven I hear.

[01:16:18] One to seven. OK. Yeah.

[01:16:19] And I do think in general, women are more likely to be

[01:16:24] somewhat at least attracted to other women than men are to be

[01:16:28] attracted to other men.

[01:16:29] That's what I was thinking.

[01:16:30] I did a quick search online and I read, quote, there's some research

[01:16:34] that suggests that women are more likely than men to experience some degree

[01:16:37] of same sex attraction or behavior.

[01:16:40] And they may also be more fluid and flexible in their sexual orientation.

[01:16:44] And also I read somewhere else, quote,

[01:16:47] some studies have suggested that women tend to be more fluid and flexible

[01:16:51] in their sexual orientation than men and that they may experience

[01:16:53] more changes in their attractions over time.

[01:16:56] For example, a longitudinal study of women who identified as lesbian,

[01:16:59] bisexual or unlabeled found that 67 percent of them changed their identity

[01:17:04] label at least once over a 10 year period.

[01:17:06] However, other studies have challenged this idea and argue

[01:17:08] there's no significant difference between men and women in terms

[01:17:11] of sexual orientation stability.

[01:17:14] So I don't know.

[01:17:15] So it's the Kinsey scale zero to six.

[01:17:18] Sorry. Zero has been exclusively heterosexual and six being exclusively homosexual.

[01:17:24] And I think there's plenty of women who are zeros and plenty of men who are

[01:17:28] threes and fours.

[01:17:31] Something that would probably work into that study is also just like

[01:17:35] the societal views on like what it means to be a man.

[01:17:41] So men historically would be less likely to admit that they

[01:17:47] lean one way more than the other, whereas women might have had

[01:17:51] a little bit more leeway and that's probably partly due to like pop culture

[01:17:56] as well, where like the idea of two women kissing in a movie has always

[01:18:01] been this like, oh, guys love seeing that.

[01:18:04] So I think there's a little bit more.

[01:18:07] There has been a little bit more wiggle room for women to be

[01:18:11] a little more fluid than men have.

[01:18:12] So I would assume that would affect that study to some degree.

[01:18:16] Like it goes back to that thing we were talking about an episode or

[01:18:20] two ago about like the Godfather and whether it's socially ingrained

[01:18:25] or just in people's nature to be whatever way they are.

[01:18:29] And you're saying more societal forces have shaped the idea that women are more fluid.

[01:18:34] Yeah, yeah.

[01:18:35] And it would definitely affect some of those studies.

[01:18:38] Like you're probably going to get fewer men who are going to admit to that

[01:18:43] even if that is what they feel.

[01:18:45] And women are probably more likely to admit to it because there's

[01:18:49] not not no backlash to those things, but maybe a little bit less than if

[01:18:55] a guy had admitted to being and fluid.

[01:18:59] There also just be maybe men who whose feelings are somewhat

[01:19:06] influenced or shaped by those societal forces.

[01:19:09] So they actually don't feel attracted to men where in another context

[01:19:14] in another time or place, maybe they would feel a little bit more.

[01:19:17] Yeah, yeah.

[01:19:19] Yeah, I believe it's a spectrum.

[01:19:21] I think there's degrees and some people are kidding themselves.

[01:19:27] Interestingly, since I'm reading this Wikipedia entry on the Kinsey report,

[01:19:32] he actually finds that a higher number of men who lean towards homosexuality

[01:19:37] than recorded for women.

[01:19:40] And we say that again.

[01:19:41] I didn't get that a higher number of men who lean towards

[01:19:45] homosexuality than recorded for women, like looking at his numbers of who gets

[01:19:50] three, four, five, six, you know, getting more and more homosexual.

[01:19:54] He's he's finding that when they respond to his his survey,

[01:19:57] there's actually more homosexuality in men than in women.

[01:20:01] So he pauses that such reports are due to the wishful thinking

[01:20:06] on the part of such heterosexual males

[01:20:10] that the result is contrary to reports that women have more homosexual

[01:20:13] leanings than men. But remember, this is Kinsey.

[01:20:15] I don't know when this was 19.

[01:20:17] Yeah, I don't know.

[01:20:18] There's a lot of different studies we should look into a little bit more.

[01:20:21] But right now I'm going to go on to my next point, which is

[01:20:26] we talked about the possible con or not of

[01:20:32] Quentin and his buddies with Tanya and all the red flags

[01:20:35] and possible con number two is Lucia and Albie.

[01:20:40] And I want to believe that Lucia really does like Albie

[01:20:45] and is being honest with them, but there's sort of red flags and sketchiness

[01:20:50] there too. I had thought we saw Lucia leave Albie's place last time

[01:20:56] and not ask for money.

[01:20:59] Then I went back and looked at the bathroom.

[01:21:01] It looked like she went to the bathroom. Yeah.

[01:21:03] So now we see she does ask, but then she's like, oh, it's OK.

[01:21:07] You don't have to pay because, you know,

[01:21:10] he didn't seem to know or didn't know.

[01:21:13] That's what it was.

[01:21:14] And I think with a lot of things in this season of the show,

[01:21:18] things aren't that concrete like maybe she went into the interaction

[01:21:24] not knowing for sure whether she was going to ask him.

[01:21:27] And then when he asked her,

[01:21:29] he only seemed to think of it when he asked to see her again.

[01:21:32] And maybe she thought, well, if I'm going to be spending more time with him,

[01:21:35] I should ask because I need the money or something.

[01:21:38] But then she was OK with it when.

[01:21:42] You know, he didn't realize she was a sex worker

[01:21:44] and because she does like him and wants to see him again, maybe.

[01:21:49] She also asked less from him than she did.

[01:21:52] Then she got from Dominic.

[01:21:54] She asked him for 2000 and she got 3000.

[01:21:57] But then anyway, she asked for less or did he pay?

[01:22:01] Well, actually, I don't know how much she asked for Dominic.

[01:22:05] But Dominic paid 3000.

[01:22:06] Gotcha. But she told Alvi 2000.

[01:22:09] So maybe don't overpaid.

[01:22:10] But don't got two girls, right?

[01:22:12] Two girls, two thousand.

[01:22:13] No, not the first night. Not the first night.

[01:22:15] Yeah, not the first night.

[01:22:17] Three thousand. I thought that was a week long thing.

[01:22:20] The two girls did split 1500.

[01:22:24] Let's go to the website and see what they're saying.

[01:22:28] But then later with Mia,

[01:22:31] Lucia seems pretty upfront to me.

[01:22:33] She says, unless there's another way to read this that I'm not thinking,

[01:22:36] she says, this is a lucky week for us.

[01:22:38] I feel it. This boy's rich and very innocent.

[01:22:40] I'm thinking maybe we won't be punished after all.

[01:22:44] That sounds like somebody who's about to take advantage of someone

[01:22:47] to me unless there's some other way of reading it.

[01:22:49] Yeah, I don't think you describe somebody's innocence

[01:22:52] unless you plan to like take it from them.

[01:22:55] Yeah, and this is a lucky week.

[01:22:57] Yeah.

[01:22:59] And then but then, you know, she asked him to be with her again

[01:23:02] and says and he offers to pay and she says,

[01:23:06] I don't want money.

[01:23:07] I like you and I want to believe her.

[01:23:09] But I think it's probably just given her conversation with Mia

[01:23:14] a way of engendering trust so she can have a bigger score kind of like

[01:23:19] you think maybe if Quentin's not on the up and up,

[01:23:22] then somehow he looks rich

[01:23:25] but still wants to take advantage of Tanya, you know?

[01:23:30] Yeah.

[01:23:31] Yeah, I feel like I'm also

[01:23:35] jumping through hoops to try and make Lucia seem like she does like him.

[01:23:40] And there is like part of me where I'm like, all right, well,

[01:23:43] maybe she does like him, but she does still need to eat.

[01:23:47] And like this is sort of part of her job.

[01:23:50] But maybe she's also thinking like, oh, I like this guy and he's rich.

[01:23:55] I could start dating him and then I'll just have a rich life.

[01:23:59] But well, I know when you really look at it,

[01:24:03] like he hasn't done anything to be liked that much.

[01:24:07] No, he's just he's a good looking guy.

[01:24:09] He's kind of nice, but would you be like, oh, yeah, I want to sleep with you every night.

[01:24:14] Yeah, I don't I don't know.

[01:24:16] And so then, you know, he sees her talking to Cameron

[01:24:21] and she tells him that Cameron owes her money and that this guy,

[01:24:24] LSEO is threatening her for it, which sounds like a kind of a pimp situation.

[01:24:29] Right. And then we see LSEO confronting her while she's out with Albie.

[01:24:33] And like we said, Albie's very sensitive to

[01:24:36] marginalize people go through and oppressed and stuff like that.

[01:24:40] So he's very troubled by all this.

[01:24:43] But of course, Lucia probably knows that Albie would feel this way.

[01:24:46] So yeah, yeah.

[01:24:47] All right, you guys are so so cynical.

[01:24:51] I mean, for me, it's I just can't just say, oh, it's a con or not a con.

[01:24:56] Right? Like you're a prostitute.

[01:24:59] Here's a rich, nice guy.

[01:25:00] I mean, come on.

[01:25:01] Yeah, you want to be with this guy as long as you can.

[01:25:05] And and it's nice that he's nice because, you know, who wants to be beaten up

[01:25:09] for five thousand euros, right?

[01:25:11] You're rather being treated nicely for five thousand euros.

[01:25:13] Then and, you know, it's kind of like take it as it goes.

[01:25:16] We don't know where she's going to go with it.

[01:25:19] And maybe she doesn't know where she's going to go with it, but she's she's

[01:25:22] going to go with it.

[01:25:24] Yeah.

[01:25:25] And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

[01:25:27] It's just the way it's just the way you are.

[01:25:29] I mean, if I'm Albie and I I'm with this woman and she says and I'm like, oh,

[01:25:37] crap, I didn't know you were an escort.

[01:25:39] Well, I can pay you.

[01:25:41] And she says, no, I don't want to be paid.

[01:25:43] I like you.

[01:25:44] And that turns out to be a lie.

[01:25:46] She does want to be paid.

[01:25:47] And she doesn't like me.

[01:25:49] Then I think that's bad.

[01:25:51] Like you say it's no problem.

[01:25:52] But for me, I don't think Albie deserves that.

[01:25:54] And if you're stupid enough to say say something like you don't have to pay me,

[01:25:58] then guess what?

[01:25:59] That you might not get paid.

[01:26:02] So you don't say that unless you're willing to.

[01:26:04] She does.

[01:26:05] Except she does say it.

[01:26:06] But then she does follow it up with like, here's how much it actually costs.

[01:26:11] Yeah.

[01:26:12] And also I have this guy who might beat me up or whatever is threatening me.

[01:26:18] So I think that let's say that she's saying that just to make him trust her more.

[01:26:26] But actually, she is engineering a situation where she knows that he's going

[01:26:31] to want to help her.

[01:26:32] Then that's very dishonest and it's you're saying, hey,

[01:26:38] this is just what this girl does.

[01:26:40] But I just don't think it's a good thing to do to this poor guy.

[01:26:45] I mean, as I'm just saying, you can go either way.

[01:26:48] It's that, you know, right now we don't know.

[01:26:51] Right? Yeah.

[01:26:52] That's the romantic in me hoping I'm like, yeah, maybe she hasn't decided.

[01:26:58] It's just like this is a lucky week for us.

[01:27:00] I feel it. This boy is rich and very innocent.

[01:27:02] That's the line that gets me thinking, OK,

[01:27:06] it doesn't seem like she has his best.

[01:27:09] Right. And you can have your opinions and I can go either way.

[01:27:14] I'm just saying we don't know yet, right?

[01:27:15] I mean, are you 100 percent sure?

[01:27:17] Are you going to put like a hundred thousand dollars on this kind of thing?

[01:27:19] Well, I've seen it so I know what happens.

[01:27:21] OK.

[01:27:24] I mean, I not that I've been in this situation,

[01:27:27] but I've been close to the situation.

[01:27:29] I I wouldn't even say I dated, but I hooked up with this guy

[01:27:34] who had saved a girl.

[01:27:35] He like met her on the streets of Paris and she was like from America,

[01:27:39] but somehow ended up in Paris and she was doing sex work

[01:27:41] and trying to make enough money to get back to the US.

[01:27:44] And he saved her.

[01:27:45] He got her back to the US.

[01:27:46] He paid for stuff, all that stuff.

[01:27:49] And then apparently she just kept calling him for more and more money.

[01:27:52] And he should even call her once while we were together

[01:27:54] and you could tell he was just like, ah, you know,

[01:27:57] what have I gotten myself into?

[01:27:59] And I don't want to.

[01:28:01] I, you know, he was torn.

[01:28:03] He like wants to keep saving her,

[01:28:05] but at the same time doesn't want to keep saving her.

[01:28:08] So, you know, I do know of situations in which people have been saved.

[01:28:13] It's never as clear cut and saving, you know, like

[01:28:18] then it seems, but it does happen.

[01:28:21] So the Disney happy ending where it turns out

[01:28:24] you're both royalty and you get married.

[01:28:27] Yeah.

[01:28:29] So so I have seen it.

[01:28:30] So it could still be that's why I think it could still be that.

[01:28:34] Yeah, I picture myself as Albie just being like,

[01:28:38] this could be either direction and

[01:28:42] I really hope she likes him.

[01:28:44] Like so you think Albie isn't

[01:28:48] just assuming that she's completely on the up and up.

[01:28:50] She he just hoped she is.

[01:28:51] But yeah, I think there's definitely some hope.

[01:28:54] Yeah, I feel like he thinks, all right,

[01:28:57] I may have to pay for this week, but after this week,

[01:29:00] she'll be my girlfriend.

[01:29:01] Like he might be saying it might be more like that type of

[01:29:05] not thinking it out.

[01:29:07] Well, and also just like when you're saving a girl,

[01:29:10] you don't really realize that she might not actually like you for you.

[01:29:14] She just likes you because you save her.

[01:29:16] That's right.

[01:29:17] And that's what that's the part.

[01:29:19] I mean, she's using him, it feels like, you know, I don't

[01:29:23] like the way she talks to Dominic, he's like,

[01:29:28] did you are you charging food to my room?

[01:29:32] And she goes, oh, just a little bit.

[01:29:34] And then is that you got a problem with that?

[01:29:36] It's fine. Go ahead.

[01:29:38] Are you going into my father's room?

[01:29:40] No. Well, we did just once, you know?

[01:29:43] I mean, she's full of shit.

[01:29:44] Yeah.

[01:29:47] We just showered. Yeah.

[01:29:49] Yeah, yeah.

[01:29:51] I did things.

[01:29:52] So I like her less this season than I did last season.

[01:29:54] I just like, you're just manipulating people potentially.

[01:29:58] Oh, yeah. She's a hustler.

[01:30:00] In any way. Yeah, she's a hustler.

[01:30:01] Yeah, right. Exactly.

[01:30:03] And I just I always think of myself as

[01:30:06] potentially the person being hustled, not the hustler.

[01:30:10] That's me too.

[01:30:11] So I'm like, yeah, I immediately am just like, no,

[01:30:15] please be truthful to Aldi.

[01:30:17] Don't hurt him.

[01:30:19] Exactly.

[01:30:20] I mean, he can't handle this.

[01:30:24] Right. But he's got that saver complex,

[01:30:25] which can be very sort of arrogant

[01:30:28] and arrogant way to approach somebody.

[01:30:30] So he's not without his flaws.

[01:30:32] Oh, and it also blinds him because now he's thinking,

[01:30:35] oh, maybe she'll even if someone said she only likes you

[01:30:38] because you're saving her, he'll just be like, yeah.

[01:30:43] Well, I think another thing that adds into that, too,

[01:30:47] is that she is being so open and honest with him.

[01:30:49] Like we haven't seen her discuss this other guy

[01:30:52] who seems to be giving her issues to anybody else.

[01:30:56] And she didn't say to like Cameron or Dominic or anybody like,

[01:31:00] oh, you don't have to pay me or I really like you or anything like that.

[01:31:04] So she is opening up to him a little bit more

[01:31:08] than she has with the other people.

[01:31:09] So it does feel like there's

[01:31:12] a reserved potential layer or something.

[01:31:17] Yeah, I mean, the way the show is presenting it in both of these cases

[01:31:23] is that it could be either way and we don't know for sure

[01:31:28] what's how sincere the people are or not

[01:31:31] or a little bit of both maybe. Yeah.

[01:31:34] Yeah. All right. What's next?

[01:31:38] So one other thing I just wanted to point out was

[01:31:41] looking at the intro art again.

[01:31:45] One of the ones we see is Megan Fahey who plays Daphne

[01:31:49] and it shows a painted relief image of two cherubs flying with a blanket.

[01:31:54] And I think this plays into my thought that she's always thinking

[01:31:58] of her children and they are kind of her reason for the way she handles her life.

[01:32:04] And I feel like that maybe backs up that thought a little bit.

[01:32:10] Or maybe she's thinking of her two children and their two fathers.

[01:32:14] Yeah, they're flying naked fathers.

[01:32:17] Yeah. And then another one that we can now talk about is Leo Woodall

[01:32:23] who plays Jack and it shows a man with his leg between another man's leg

[01:32:29] and he's sort of standing over that man.

[01:32:31] And I think this just helps emphasize that Jack is the worst.

[01:32:35] I hate Jack.

[01:32:39] That's what the artist meant by that.

[01:32:43] Now, I think he's gay, right?

[01:32:44] Yeah. And that he's maybe gay.

[01:32:47] Yeah, the fact that he does have his leg between another guy's legs

[01:32:51] and seems to sort of be towering over him does seem to imply

[01:32:55] that that's maybe more who he really is.

[01:33:00] Just an awful person who stiffs service workers

[01:33:04] and he seems like the type of guy who only cares about his fear

[01:33:10] of attention in the moment.

[01:33:12] So I could almost see him like if he saw another attractive girl

[01:33:17] like just suddenly not caring about Portia.

[01:33:21] So like everything that's happening this night is him focused on Portia.

[01:33:26] So he doesn't care that he's not paying his bill there and like

[01:33:29] just all the chaos that could be happening around them.

[01:33:32] He's like, I'm focused on you and you're the only one.

[01:33:35] And that just backs up the fact that he's a shitty person.

[01:33:41] He probably stabs babies too.

[01:33:43] Yeah, he does.

[01:33:44] I actually think I saw something in this that claimed that he does that.

[01:33:49] Kicks puppies.

[01:33:51] He disassembles orphanages with the orphans inside.

[01:33:56] Yeah.

[01:33:58] OK, I just thought it was a garden variety.

[01:34:00] Douche that doesn't turn into dashes.

[01:34:03] But OK.

[01:34:05] No, I what do I really think I'm trying to divorce

[01:34:09] because when you're going on about how much you hate Jack,

[01:34:12] there's a part of me that wants to be contrary and defend him for some reason.

[01:34:18] But honestly, from what we've seen,

[01:34:21] yeah, he's got this cocky swagger that.

[01:34:26] Yeah, I don't think I hate it as much as you.

[01:34:30] I just because I haven't seen him.

[01:34:36] Be bad to people.

[01:34:38] I've seen him be edgy and yeah, it's not nice to dine in dash.

[01:34:43] So that's not cool, but it makes me wonder if he's poor or something or.

[01:34:48] Yeah, I'm like the Albie.

[01:34:49] I'm like, oh, maybe in some impressive situation, you know?

[01:34:55] I will say that I do.

[01:34:56] I feel like I still like him for Portia.

[01:35:00] And he also seems like the type of guy who, like, if their relationship continued,

[01:35:05] he would calm down a little bit.

[01:35:07] Like he's still in the trying to impress her stage,

[01:35:10] which you tend to do like things out of the norm.

[01:35:14] So he might calm down and not be as much of a douche once

[01:35:18] he's got her locked down.

[01:35:20] I don't see him in a relationship at all.

[01:35:23] Ever.

[01:35:23] No, not with Shane, you know, he could just be totally.

[01:35:29] He would sit there with Rachel and not even acknowledge her.

[01:35:32] Yeah, I'm talking Shane from the first season and just be totally douchey

[01:35:36] with Jack at least I do feel a connection between him and Harper.

[01:35:40] And it mostly it's him being something.

[01:35:43] I mean, not Harper, sorry.

[01:35:44] No, not Portia.

[01:35:47] And he's he's he's the one who's sort of leading things

[01:35:50] and being attractive to her and she's responding to it.

[01:35:54] But he does also respond to her.

[01:35:57] He'll like key into something that interests her and kind of play on it in a fun way, you know?

[01:36:01] So there is like a back and forth there that I think makes me

[01:36:06] like him a little more than I might otherwise.

[01:36:08] I'm not saying I love him, but yeah, I think there's actual chemistry between the two.

[01:36:11] Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[01:36:12] And I think I'm actually in this situation.

[01:36:15] I'm not I'm not saying I don't like the character on the TV show.

[01:36:18] I feel like I'm saying I want to interact with this guy.

[01:36:21] Yeah, yeah.

[01:36:23] All right. How about notes, Jenny?

[01:36:26] All right, some notes.

[01:36:29] So the two villas that we see so far are Palazzo.

[01:36:33] So Villa Elenya is the real name of Quentin's Palazzo.

[01:36:37] And I looked it up.

[01:36:38] It's actually near Noro, even though they say it's in Palermo.

[01:36:42] And ironically, Villa Tosca, which was the setting for the Noro

[01:36:49] Palazzo that they rented, the girls rented is actually in Palermo.

[01:36:53] We can get them both for about 20,000 a week, 20,000 euros a week,

[01:36:58] which seems like a deal compared to one night in a four season suite.

[01:37:01] Yeah.

[01:37:02] And you can see interiors online, I believe for Quentin's Palazzo.

[01:37:07] You can see our architectural digest.

[01:37:09] So lots of beautiful photographs, and it looks very similar to what we see in the show.

[01:37:15] So, of course, someone who loves architecture and home design,

[01:37:18] this has been a lot of fun just just staring at all the beauty

[01:37:21] because like Quentin, I too am a victim to beauty.

[01:37:27] Another thing is where Quentin is, you know, going deep into his thoughts

[01:37:31] about beauty and love and how he says he's not someone who who falls in love.

[01:37:36] And then he admits that he's actually been in love for 30 years with one person.

[01:37:41] If there isn't anything more ridiculously in love story than that,

[01:37:47] there's there's that one in which he's still willing to do anything

[01:37:50] for this cowboy that he met in Wyoming, which of course,

[01:37:55] my thought was like cowboys in Wyoming.

[01:38:00] He does say like it's Bearback Mountain or whatever it is.

[01:38:06] Bearback Mountain.

[01:38:08] Bearback.

[01:38:09] That's the.

[01:38:12] That's the porn version.

[01:38:13] Yeah.

[01:38:16] So, yeah, so I thought that was a sort of moment between Tanya and Quentin,

[01:38:22] which they kind of go deep.

[01:38:25] He does say he what went wrong with that guy that he was in love with

[01:38:31] is that he got old and he likes young, beautiful things.

[01:38:35] And then we find out later that one of the young, beautiful things he likes is Jack.

[01:38:40] Yep.

[01:38:43] I felt there are some pretty naive rich people in this episode.

[01:38:47] Right? I mean, society says rich people are terrible, usually terrible

[01:38:51] people because of their circumstances and they they start to just put themselves first.

[01:38:55] And definitely Cameron is an example of that.

[01:38:57] I mean, someone who doesn't pay on time.

[01:39:00] That is such a rich person thing.

[01:39:03] Right.

[01:39:04] I mean, I'm not convinced he can pay.

[01:39:06] I wonder like Jack stiffing the bill is an echo of Cameron,

[01:39:13] like because they don't actually have the money or something.

[01:39:17] But that doesn't.

[01:39:18] Well, I don't know.

[01:39:19] It's just he he says that's nothing to me.

[01:39:22] All I have to do is go to the bank and it seems like, well, then why didn't you?

[01:39:25] Because he's rich.

[01:39:27] Rich people don't go to the bank when you want them to.

[01:39:29] But he's also like wanting an investment from Ethan and yeah,

[01:39:33] you know, I can make money, bro.

[01:39:34] And I just kind of wonder is there something up with that that,

[01:39:38] you know, is under the surface where he's actually desperate or something?

[01:39:41] I don't know.

[01:39:41] I'm always suspicious of everybody on the show.

[01:39:44] Yeah, I mean, the show ends with people dying.

[01:39:47] So it's like you have to question everybody's motives and what they say.

[01:39:51] I find it interesting that Tanya brings up Belinda's curse.

[01:39:56] So I also noted that

[01:39:59] I said last season that I think if Tanya were to describe her time in Maui,

[01:40:05] she would talk about Greg and how she got better.

[01:40:09] And she wouldn't remember the name of the woman who helped her.

[01:40:13] And in this discussion, she just says that woman in Maui who like made me feel better.

[01:40:19] She was a witch doctor, like a real, real witch doctor.

[01:40:23] And she was really good at her job and she did a great.

[01:40:26] But then in the typical Tanya thing, she starts to like

[01:40:30] her image decays a little and she's like, well,

[01:40:32] maybe she put a curse on me and that's the reason I'm having all these issues.

[01:40:36] So not only is she not like Sabalinda's name,

[01:40:40] which leads me to think she doesn't necessarily remember her,

[01:40:43] but she also then decides to blame her for all of her problems

[01:40:47] after just like saying she was an amazing person.

[01:40:52] Oh, and more examples of Tanya's passive aggressiveness

[01:40:56] or narcissism is like when she told Portia,

[01:41:00] basically imply, are you sure you have cute things?

[01:41:03] To what?

[01:41:05] In the beginning when she says, pack your cute things.

[01:41:07] Do you have cute things?

[01:41:08] Because that's her little judgment on Portia's wardrobe, which to be honest,

[01:41:12] I maybe because I'm an old lady, I kind of support.

[01:41:16] I mean, what was that sundress with with sock, white socks and shoes?

[01:41:20] Sorry.

[01:41:21] I think she's adorable. I love it.

[01:41:22] Yep. OK, OK, OK.

[01:41:24] Yeah, of course.

[01:41:25] She also tells her not to steal anything when they get to the to

[01:41:30] Quinton's place.

[01:41:31] She's like.

[01:41:34] Anything else?

[01:41:34] Yeah. Randy.

[01:41:36] Yep. So one thing I was wondering and I meant to actually look it up is,

[01:41:40] did Bert, did the actor actually hurt his head?

[01:41:44] Because we've seen him fall and we've seen injuries on screen.

[01:41:49] So it just seems odd that they didn't stage a way for us to see how he hurt

[01:41:54] himself. He just shows up with a bandage on his head and they

[01:41:58] it kind of seemed like they were like, oh, crap, the actor hurt himself.

[01:42:01] And they sort of worked it into the script maybe.

[01:42:05] And he just bumped his head on something earlier, but it just seemed

[01:42:09] like an odd thing to tuck in last minute.

[01:42:13] It makes sense to me because we saw him fall outside.

[01:42:16] And so if they want to establish that that's a regular thing that happens,

[01:42:20] but not just show the same scene again,

[01:42:23] they just have him show up with a bandage and say it happened again.

[01:42:26] Also that it regularly happens and people are not around.

[01:42:29] I mean, his family is not around.

[01:42:31] Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

[01:42:35] Cam and Ethan make such a poor attempt to hide from me and Lucia

[01:42:40] when they're sitting at the table with their wives.

[01:42:42] The girls come by and they just like trying to.

[01:42:45] That's down and they like hide their eyes.

[01:42:47] And it's like, I think you're drawing more attention.

[01:42:50] I know, like what are you?

[01:42:51] Yeah, what is it suddenly sunny over there?

[01:42:54] What's happening?

[01:42:55] Like. But I guess it was more for for us.

[01:42:59] I agree. Yeah.

[01:43:00] Yeah, they were looking like Marvel characters trying to be incognito.

[01:43:07] Me and Lucia say what I'm always thinking in there,

[01:43:11] just super excited that this place serves free breakfast all day.

[01:43:15] Hmm.

[01:43:18] And then I'll be in Porsche tell each other to have a nice life,

[01:43:22] which is such a sad thing to say to somebody.

[01:43:26] And then that country music or country

[01:43:29] sounding or Western sounding version of the song starts playing,

[01:43:33] which I don't know.

[01:43:35] I guess it's just a musical choice,

[01:43:37] but it feels so different from the rest of the show that it

[01:43:40] feels like there's a reasoning behind it and I haven't placed it yet.

[01:43:43] Maybe in that case, it makes a little more sense

[01:43:46] since they're both American.

[01:43:48] Yeah, sort of the American version.

[01:43:49] But I actually kind of dug that scene because

[01:43:52] they come together and they don't say a whole lot,

[01:43:55] but they're they just come to this quick understanding like,

[01:43:59] you know what, it didn't work out.

[01:44:01] We both found other people and they're not.

[01:44:03] They don't seem resentful and it's just very pleasant, you know?

[01:44:06] And it's kind of refreshing.

[01:44:07] I thought like, OK, well, you know, they kind of shrug.

[01:44:11] Yeah, I just thought it was nice.

[01:44:14] Yeah.

[01:44:16] All right, I only had one left, which is I like the kind of artistic choice

[01:44:21] of cutting from Albie and

[01:44:24] Lucia and he's coming to the waves crashing against the shore.

[01:44:29] The white sea foam.

[01:44:33] And they use water and waves on this show so well.

[01:44:37] I think in this season in particular, it's about passion and emotion.

[01:44:41] And later there was an underwater cam and then I think like a wave comes crashing

[01:44:45] down and that resolved into Harper pouring more wine into her glass

[01:44:50] in a dramatic way, and that's going to lead to making some more waves.

[01:44:53] So right.

[01:45:13] All right, back have a little bit of news this time.

[01:45:16] Vanity Fair had Aubrey Plaza watch some of her scenes from different things

[01:45:20] that she's been in and react to them.

[01:45:22] And I thought it would be fun to play her reaction to a scene

[01:45:25] from this episode of the White Lotus.

[01:45:28] So it's about three minutes and here we go.

[01:45:31] I liked the one in, I think, that glass, which one was that cam?

[01:45:34] I don't remember, babe.

[01:45:35] We'll buy a case.

[01:45:37] I have a question.

[01:45:38] There I am.

[01:45:39] We shot this at a vineyard in Sicily.

[01:45:42] Unfortunately, the wine was not real.

[01:45:43] How do I play drunk?

[01:45:45] I have a kind of sense memory approach and I do a lot of research.

[01:45:49] So I know what it feels like to be to be very, very drunk.

[01:45:52] And I conjure up those moments and I relive them over and over again.

[01:45:57] And then I do a physical exercise.

[01:45:59] Sometimes I spin around in circles.

[01:46:02] It really depends on the level of drunkenness.

[01:46:04] At this scene, I did not spin around a ton.

[01:46:07] I think in the next scene when you find us later and I'm at dinner

[01:46:11] and I'm really, really drunk, that I was spinning around at that point.

[01:46:14] But this scene is more like, OK, I'm just getting started.

[01:46:18] It's day drinking and it's a little more like I'm buzzed,

[01:46:21] which is a, you know, that's a different level of drunkenness.

[01:46:27] Have you two ever slept with the same girl?

[01:46:30] What?

[01:46:31] What?

[01:46:32] Just curious.

[01:46:33] Well, my hair did a weird thing.

[01:46:35] Just a continuity thing.

[01:46:36] I'm going to be criticizing everything that I can't watch myself.

[01:46:39] OK, what am I swirling?

[01:46:41] What is that?

[01:46:42] Cheese stick?

[01:46:43] I like to use props.

[01:46:44] I'm watching this for the first time it's blowing my mind.

[01:46:48] I'm like, this is what it looks like in college.

[01:46:50] Come on.

[01:46:53] Be honest.

[01:46:54] Well, it wasn't exactly a lot of overlap, you know, different dating pools.

[01:46:59] Mike White and I knew each other before the show.

[01:47:03] We had been kind of working on something else that got kind of messed up

[01:47:07] by the pandemic.

[01:47:08] And so we had been wanting to work together for a while.

[01:47:10] And after the first season of White Lotus,

[01:47:13] he just decided to throw me in there.

[01:47:15] And yeah, he just called me up and asked and told me he was writing

[01:47:18] apart for me. So it was very simple.

[01:47:20] It doesn't always happen like that.

[01:47:22] Really?

[01:47:23] You never invited a girl over your dorm room, played naked twister.

[01:47:28] Naked twister.

[01:47:29] Come on, you guys never had one orgy.

[01:47:31] The most helpful thing on this shoot for me was just getting to know these people.

[01:47:36] We had lots of dinners every night.

[01:47:39] You know, I was very, very into the group dinners.

[01:47:41] We had a lot of those and just, yeah, just getting to know each other,

[01:47:44] talking about our past relationships and our relationships.

[01:47:48] You guys ever watch each other have sex?

[01:47:50] Oh my God.

[01:47:51] For me and A.

[01:47:53] Yeah. Harper, what is with these questions?

[01:47:55] As a character, you have a real objective

[01:47:58] and you have a lot of stuff brewing.

[01:48:00] And I think especially with this foursome, it was definitely fun to kind of mess

[01:48:04] with Daphne and Cameron because I was kind of playing Harper

[01:48:09] like to the top of my intelligence and playing her as someone that is

[01:48:12] on another level kind of intellectually than them.

[01:48:15] I think this scene is a good example of just all the colors of Harper

[01:48:19] because this is kind of when you start to see things unravel a bit.

[01:48:24] Like she's a chaos agent.

[01:48:25] I think that's what's most fun about this whole sequence is

[01:48:28] it's just like kind of trying to capture that like sloppy drunk kind of thing

[01:48:32] when you're just like, oh, it's like cringy.

[01:48:34] No, like don't say that.

[01:48:36] But we've all done it.

[01:48:38] I mean it was college, right?

[01:48:39] We didn't have our own room so probably.

[01:48:43] So I guess old habits die hard, huh?

[01:48:47] And she downs it.

[01:48:52] Yeah, she does a great job playing drunk actually.

[01:48:56] Yeah.

[01:48:58] It wasn't real wine.

[01:49:01] What stood out to you about that, Jenny, anything in particular?

[01:49:06] I thought it was interesting how she doesn't watch her performance

[01:49:10] after she acts it, which I think is very common for some actors.

[01:49:14] Sometimes the first thing they see it is like at the opening

[01:49:17] or yeah, at the premiere or something like that.

[01:49:21] She talked about it a little bit in a part I didn't include where she said

[01:49:25] when she's a producer on something she'll watch it a million times.

[01:49:27] But when she's an actor, she usually doesn't unless, like you said,

[01:49:29] it's the premiere or something like that.

[01:49:31] But Andrew Lincoln was the same on Walking Dead.

[01:49:35] He never watched it.

[01:49:37] That's so odd to put so much time and effort into something

[01:49:40] and be like, oh, I don't want to see the finished product.

[01:49:42] I know.

[01:49:43] There's a part of me that's like, come on, I'm a fan of this thing you did.

[01:49:47] I watched it.

[01:49:48] Are you too good to watch it?

[01:49:49] Or I don't know what it is.

[01:49:50] It's a weird thing to do with me.

[01:49:52] Yeah, second guessing thing like when you're acting, you're that character.

[01:49:56] Why would you?

[01:49:57] Yeah, I mean, like, I don't like watching videos of myself.

[01:50:00] Right.

[01:50:00] Do you listen to this podcast?

[01:50:02] Hell no.

[01:50:07] I do.

[01:50:10] I have to.

[01:50:14] No, I'll go back and listen sometimes.

[01:50:16] Yeah.

[01:50:17] It's interesting that she was saying that Harper was like, you know,

[01:50:19] way more intelligent than Cameron and Daphne, and that she's messing with them.

[01:50:24] Yeah.

[01:50:24] And I, you know, I was like, I just see a bunch of drunk people going all out.

[01:50:34] She seems like she's the the band leader there.

[01:50:37] She's orchestrating the situation to me.

[01:50:40] Yeah.

[01:50:40] Yeah, for sure.

[01:50:41] She's in control more than anyone else.

[01:50:44] All right.

[01:50:44] Then the last thing is there's an upcoming movie called Immaculate

[01:50:48] that's the psychological horror and it stars Sydney Sweeney,

[01:50:52] who's Olivia of course from season one of The White Lotus,

[01:50:55] and also has Simona Tabasca, who plays Lucia.

[01:50:59] Oh, wow.

[01:50:59] So they're going to be a movie together.

[01:51:02] It's about, quote, a devoutly religious woman.

[01:51:04] Sydney Sweeney is offered a role at an illustrious convent in the Italian countryside.

[01:51:09] Her seemingly picture perfect do home is soon revealed to hold horrifying secrets.

[01:51:13] So I guess it's like a horror.

[01:51:16] It's filmed in Rome.

[01:51:17] I don't know when it'll be out.

[01:51:18] IMDb says 2024, so it might be a little while.

[01:51:21] I wonder if that's something they would talk about the fact

[01:51:24] that they were both on White Lotus.

[01:51:26] It's not like they overlapped or anything, but I'm curious if that

[01:51:30] was any conversation.

[01:51:31] I think if you're a fan of the show, you get like the two

[01:51:34] two of the hotties and one together that might help promote it, you know.

[01:51:38] Yeah, they're going to be like, oh, yeah, we know what Mike White.

[01:51:42] I'm sure they'll be trading Mike White stories.

[01:51:44] Yeah.

[01:51:47] All right.

[01:51:49] Time for a little guest feedback.

[01:51:51] Jenny.

[01:51:53] Matthew Rimmer says, I saw there was lots of buzz around a shock ending

[01:51:58] to this episode, but managed to avoid overt spoilers before watching it myself.

[01:52:02] Having been primed for something major to happen and the way shots were playing.

[01:52:07] I was anticipating a cult sacrifice at the end.

[01:52:10] The actual twist twist.

[01:52:13] Well, who could have called that?

[01:52:16] Yeah, I don't know anybody that would have guessed that.

[01:52:18] Yeah, no.

[01:52:20] Yeah, I can see the cult angle for sure.

[01:52:23] Yeah, for sure.

[01:52:25] Tammy Barr says the music is getting so ominous.

[01:52:29] We're dying to watch the next episode, but want to wait for coverage.

[01:52:32] What is going to happen next at the villa?

[01:52:35] We knew those guys were shady, but can't figure out what their plan is.

[01:52:39] I learned from White Lotus that you can't trust a smiley borat impersonator

[01:52:44] at the hotel bar.

[01:52:46] This show has all the feels of an opera, funny moments, doomed relationships

[01:52:50] and absurd scenarios.

[01:52:52] Is that the Queen of Sicily?

[01:52:54] Laughing emojis.

[01:52:56] That line is still cracking me up days later.

[01:53:00] Well, I'm glad you're watching along with us.

[01:53:02] Sorry, we're a little bit late this week, but we should be on schedule

[01:53:05] after this next one.

[01:53:06] We'll record next Sunday and then the Sunday after that.

[01:53:11] I think that just reminded me that Salvatore who gets put at the desk with

[01:53:18] Isabel.

[01:53:18] Marla Sada.

[01:53:19] Yeah.

[01:53:21] I think that's the voice that Tanya said in the last episode.

[01:53:25] She's like, that's the weirdest voice I've ever heard.

[01:53:27] Oh, yeah.

[01:53:29] And poor Isabel.

[01:53:31] Salvatore shows up.

[01:53:32] Yeah.

[01:53:33] Yeah.

[01:53:34] Oh boy.

[01:53:35] Beautiful woman.

[01:53:39] And then Veronica says, I'm finally catching up on the podcast today

[01:53:43] and just want to commend you guys on having such a thoughtful open discussions

[01:53:47] about topics that I know are so hard to talk through.

[01:53:51] Even when I have a differing perspective, I've been enjoying how you guys

[01:53:54] have reflected on it and been vulnerable in sharing your opinions and experiences.

[01:53:58] Thanks, Veronica.

[01:53:59] Thanks, Veronica.

[01:54:01] That would make a great Apple podcast review.

[01:54:03] Just saying.

[01:54:05] Preferably five stars.

[01:54:09] Just met Veronica this weekend and we have the exact same birthday.

[01:54:13] Oh, no way.

[01:54:14] Yeah.

[01:54:15] Same year or two?

[01:54:16] Not the same year.

[01:54:17] I'm a year younger.

[01:54:18] So.

[01:54:19] Well.

[01:54:20] All right.

[01:54:21] Here's Jenny Ryan.

[01:54:23] Hello, Jenny from Saskatoon here.

[01:54:26] First, I wanted to say how hilarious it was to listen to that call I made about season

[01:54:31] one of Whilohas because I was like, who am I talking about?

[01:54:34] Who are these people?

[01:54:36] Why does this matter?

[01:54:38] That it was really funny.

[01:54:39] But I did think it was interesting how the only person in that show who made it out

[01:54:43] OK was the young white man who at the beginning we were all worried about.

[01:54:48] Well, we weren't but the characters were worried about so hard for young white men.

[01:54:52] And then that Quinn probably is the only one who's going to do OK.

[01:54:55] So I thought that was weird.

[01:54:58] OK, so about this particular show now season two, I thought it was really

[01:55:03] it was really interesting hearing you guys talk about Albie and Jack

[01:55:08] and just like how the girls like, oh, I should go with the nice guy.

[01:55:12] But he just doesn't do it for me.

[01:55:14] And I realized I had the exact same experience when I was about, I don't know,

[01:55:18] 30. I there was this guy that I knew and he actually was like a tall,

[01:55:25] dark haired, skinny Italian boy.

[01:55:28] And I knew that he liked me and I was like, I should probably just

[01:55:32] because I've been dating kind of like idiots.

[01:55:34] And so I forced myself to kiss him.

[01:55:37] I was like, I'm going to kiss this boy.

[01:55:38] I'm going to do it.

[01:55:39] I'm going to make this a thing.

[01:55:41] I'm going to change my life trajectory.

[01:55:43] And then I kissed him and it was not great.

[01:55:45] And I remember him saying, I can't believe you like me.

[01:55:48] I can't believe you like me.

[01:55:49] And I was like, don't I felt really bad.

[01:55:52] I felt really bad about it.

[01:55:54] And then I like ghosted him and I ended up meeting somebody who was

[01:55:59] much more confident.

[01:56:01] And I think that that's the difference.

[01:56:02] The bad boys feel confident.

[01:56:05] And so you just have to find a confident good boy.

[01:56:08] I think that's the sweet spot.

[01:56:10] So they seem like they're bad, but they're actually just good at things

[01:56:14] and know what they're good at.

[01:56:17] Anyway, but really I wanted to call and say thank you so much to Jenny

[01:56:20] for sharing your story about your work as a stripper.

[01:56:23] I think that that's great.

[01:56:24] You did say at one point you're like, I might get Jason to cut this out.

[01:56:27] And I'm really glad you didn't because honestly, so often we watch

[01:56:31] TV shows and then we listen to people talk about them in there.

[01:56:34] There's sex workers in there or there's people who do

[01:56:37] the kinds of work that people don't either admit that they've done

[01:56:40] or that they haven't done.

[01:56:41] And so it's really great to hear somebody who's actually been

[01:56:43] in the field sort of tangentially to Lucia and so you can actually speak to that.

[01:56:48] So thank you so much for leaving that in.

[01:56:50] I think that's really valuable information.

[01:56:52] And I guess one other question I had is, does Mia have a job?

[01:56:55] OK.

[01:56:58] Doesn't seem like it.

[01:56:59] Yeah.

[01:57:01] She's been calling out sick all week.

[01:57:03] She said that sweet spot in which she can still live with her parents.

[01:57:08] Yeah.

[01:57:10] Which I heard in Italy, actually a lot of kids live with their parents

[01:57:14] right up until they get married, which sometimes is never.

[01:57:17] So.

[01:57:20] So yeah.

[01:57:22] That was great, Jenny.

[01:57:22] That was a good call.

[01:57:23] I agree.

[01:57:24] Confident. Good guys.

[01:57:25] Those are the best.

[01:57:27] All right. Here's Wendy's call.

[01:57:30] Hi, Jason, Jenny and Randy.

[01:57:34] I just wanted to let you know my thoughts on season two, episode five.

[01:57:37] This is Wendy.

[01:57:39] I thought this was a little bit of a set up episode.

[01:57:44] Seems like they're setting it up for the last two episodes.

[01:57:49] Seems a little slower than the other episodes,

[01:57:53] but at the same time, you can really see the tension is ramping up.

[01:57:59] Feels like freaky things going on with Lucia

[01:58:06] and I guess her pimp.

[01:58:08] Could be that Albie's in danger with getting involved in all that.

[01:58:13] And there's definitely, I don't know what is happening

[01:58:18] with Tanya and Portia and the Gays.

[01:58:22] Like, I just don't know what's happening there, but it does not seem good at all.

[01:58:27] Seems like Jack is some kind of jiggalo.

[01:58:29] It feels like they're playing Tanya and Portia.

[01:58:33] I don't know.

[01:58:36] I don't know.

[01:58:38] And I loved the whole parts with Harper really laying it on to Ethan and Albie.

[01:58:47] I mean, Ethan and Cameron.

[01:58:50] She is pissed and getting drunk and she's letting a lot of things out

[01:58:55] and she's just everywhere.

[01:58:58] I'm really enjoying that and I can't wait to see what happens.

[01:59:02] I really enjoyed that, too.

[01:59:03] By the way, I don't know if we really stress that, but it was really

[01:59:06] to watch her just like be fucking and spewing things out.

[01:59:10] Because I feel like Cameron is the one who was normally doing that.

[01:59:13] So it was great to have it be reversed on him a bit.

[01:59:17] Oh yeah, totally.

[01:59:19] And finally, we have Sadie.

[01:59:21] Hey, Jason, Jenny and Randy.

[01:59:23] It's Sadie calling in for White Lotus Season 2 Episode 5.

[01:59:28] That's Amore.

[01:59:30] Harper is amazing.

[01:59:32] I was so mad in the last episode that she didn't confront Ethan with that

[01:59:37] Condom Rapper, but oh my God, the way she left it out for him.

[01:59:40] That was just brilliant.

[01:59:43] He's a horrible liar.

[01:59:45] And so like I don't blame her at all for not believing him

[01:59:49] because it was just so uncomfortable and awkward.

[01:59:52] So I just loved her kind of getting drunk all day long

[01:59:55] and kind of throwing everything in his face

[01:59:59] and all her little innuendos were just amazing.

[02:00:02] And then Cameron with that hella creepy leg touch.

[02:00:05] Oh my God.

[02:00:07] I don't know if any of us like totally noticed, but Daphne's

[02:00:11] their kids are for sure her trainer's kids because she explains

[02:00:15] how she's got this trainer.

[02:00:16] She describes him as like blonde hair and blue eyes.

[02:00:19] And I mean, those kids definitely look like the trainer

[02:00:22] and not the children of Cameron.

[02:00:25] So that was a cool little reveal.

[02:00:29] I definitely am nervous, but excited about this trip to

[02:00:32] Palermo and Tanya being so excited about her high end gaze.

[02:00:38] I want it to be amazing.

[02:00:39] I want it to be a wonderful experience, but I just like

[02:00:43] it's white lotus.

[02:00:44] And so I know that something's not right and it's driving

[02:00:47] me nuts.

[02:00:49] I don't like Jack.

[02:00:50] He gives me really, really like he was already giving me

[02:00:54] bad vibes.

[02:00:55] Then when I saw him with his uncle, it was like, oh boy,

[02:00:59] so yeah, for sure.

[02:01:00] He's bad news.

[02:01:03] Poor Albie.

[02:01:04] He's so naive.

[02:01:05] It was so sad.

[02:01:07] Like I think where you guys were saying in the last podcast

[02:01:10] how it's like you wanted to think that maybe, you know,

[02:01:13] Lucia is like really likes him and you know, is just

[02:01:18] wanting to enjoy time with this guy.

[02:01:20] And instead of course, she just wants to get paid

[02:01:23] and he's so naive not realizing that, you know,

[02:01:27] that she's a sex worker.

[02:01:29] So, you know, that was kind of sad.

[02:01:32] I'm noticing Dom is definitely caught in the middle

[02:01:35] of like wanting to be like his dad and emulate his dad,

[02:01:38] but then also wanting to try and be the man

[02:01:40] that his son needs him to be.

[02:01:41] And so it's really interesting how he's kind of pulled

[02:01:44] between these two worlds.

[02:01:47] So it'll be interesting to kind of see how that plays out.

[02:01:50] Mia is adorable.

[02:01:51] I love her singing.

[02:01:53] I love her dynamic with Valentina,

[02:01:55] kind of flirting with her and you know,

[02:01:58] I just thought that was really, really cool to watch.

[02:02:02] So anyway, I'm loving the show.

[02:02:05] It is such a joy to watch just awkward, uncomfortable,

[02:02:12] pettiness and cringe and just like,

[02:02:15] oh, I can't get enough of it.

[02:02:17] It's really, I think I might like season two better

[02:02:20] than season one, I'm not sure, but it's great

[02:02:24] and I'm loving it.

[02:02:24] And I'm loving you guys' coverage.

[02:02:26] It's a lot of fun.

[02:02:27] And notice I'm at three minutes, so I will sign off,

[02:02:30] but thanks so much for what you guys are doing.

[02:02:31] Talk to you later.

[02:02:32] Bye.

[02:02:33] Thank you, Sadie.

[02:02:35] Just hearing the excitement for the show

[02:02:38] and her voice actually makes me feel more appreciative

[02:02:41] about it when she's just like the cringe

[02:02:42] and all that, I love it.

[02:02:44] Yeah, you're right, you're right.

[02:02:47] But she also doesn't like Jack.

[02:02:49] So clearly there's something wrong with the guy.

[02:02:52] That's true.

[02:02:53] Yeah, Sadie's always right.

[02:02:55] Yep.

[02:02:58] She's totally not my type, but you live in a very diverse world.

[02:03:03] You're not into the uncle fuckers.

[02:03:07] I told you, I'm just not into people I don't, I can't.

[02:03:10] I don't know what they're saying.

[02:03:14] Medication is very important to me

[02:03:15] and when half of the time I'm just smiling going,

[02:03:18] what the fuck?

[02:03:19] Did he just say?

[02:03:21] All right, yeah, you won't go and get a rice bowl.

[02:03:24] I mean, like.

[02:03:25] Yeah.

[02:03:26] All right, that is our show.

[02:03:37] Thanks so much for listening everyone.

[02:03:38] Next up will be the white lotus season two episode six

[02:03:42] abductions alien abductions.

[02:03:46] Yeah.

[02:03:47] Later in the swan.

[02:03:50] If you want to write in or send us a voice message about it,

[02:03:53] you can find all our contact information at podcasticut.com.

[02:03:57] And while you're there,

[02:03:59] be sure to check out our other shows.

[02:04:01] Yeah, like Loki versus going strong right now

[02:04:05] if you're into that show

[02:04:06] and we're getting ready to start our walking dead rewatch.

[02:04:10] I'm so excited for that Halloween.

[02:04:13] Spooky.

[02:04:16] That should be cool.

[02:04:17] All right, that is our show.

[02:04:18] Thanks for listening.

[02:04:20] And remember, we can't be responsible

[02:04:22] for everything we said work and cost.

[02:04:24] We just hit our heads.

[02:04:29] Ladies and gentlemen, at this time,

[02:04:31] we'll be switching over to spoiler hour.

[02:04:33] So if you don't like spoilers, I suggest you get the hell out.

[02:04:39] Go on and get get the hell out.

[02:04:42] If you don't want spoilers, get the hell out.

[02:04:50] Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

[02:04:52] Don't forget to tip your podcasters.

[02:04:57] All right, we're going a little long,

[02:04:58] but we've got to do it

[02:04:59] because there's so much stuff in this one.

[02:05:02] And so if you've watched this whole season,

[02:05:05] you know that Lucia is totally taking advantage of Albie.

[02:05:11] And I think she knew he didn't know

[02:05:15] that she was a sex worker and didn't expect to pay,

[02:05:17] but she might not have been sure,

[02:05:19] but either way, she'd have turned it to her advantage.

[02:05:23] And she brought it up

[02:05:24] because she's positioning herself

[02:05:26] as having an abusive pimp

[02:05:27] so she can get his sympathy and hook him in.

[02:05:30] But the way they're playing it,

[02:05:31] they're playing it so he might think

[02:05:33] that she might actually like him, I think.

[02:05:36] And I still did have that thought at this point.

[02:05:39] I think she purposefully asked Cameron

[02:05:41] for money in front of him

[02:05:42] and made it a little confrontational

[02:05:44] so he would ask her about it

[02:05:46] and she could tell that she's owed this guy a LSEO

[02:05:49] and that he's threatening her.

[02:05:51] But it's clever because it's done in a way

[02:05:55] where we could believe her

[02:05:56] because we know Cameron does owe her money.

[02:05:58] So she was telling the truth at least about that part

[02:06:02] and then so as far as we know, also about the LSEO.

[02:06:06] And Albie asks if there's anything he can do

[02:06:09] and she says, no, it's not your problem.

[02:06:11] So this is her again.

[02:06:12] She's building trust with her mark,

[02:06:15] refusing help at first.

[02:06:18] And she said he didn't have to pay,

[02:06:20] she's building trust.

[02:06:20] Similarly with Tanya, these gay guys acting rich

[02:06:23] to build trust with her

[02:06:24] so she won't suspect the two cons

[02:06:26] are all about building trust this episode.

[02:06:31] But I love that you pointed out

[02:06:33] because I don't know if I would have caught this, Randy,

[02:06:35] that we saw Alessio and Lucia being friendly

[02:06:38] in the very first episode.

[02:06:39] And I think that was really fun of them to put in there

[02:06:43] knowing that probably 99.9% of the audience

[02:06:45] wouldn't remember that or anything of it.

[02:06:47] I don't think, yeah, I remembered it all

[02:06:49] even after it wasn't until we were rewatching

[02:06:52] where I was like, hey, it's that guy.

[02:06:54] Yeah, exactly.

[02:06:55] Yeah, that's definitely a moment

[02:06:58] that's there for people who watch it twice, I think.

[02:07:00] Yeah, yeah.

[02:07:01] Because Lucia also says it seems to imply

[02:07:04] she meets people online,

[02:07:05] which kind of gives the impression she's...

[02:07:07] Oh, yeah.

[02:07:08] It's her own business,

[02:07:09] like she's not going through somebody.

[02:07:12] I mean, she still could online, but...

[02:07:14] Yeah, I remember feeling like that a little bit like,

[02:07:18] wait a minute, didn't she say it was online?

[02:07:20] But it could still be someone else telling her

[02:07:22] you need to have a portfolio online

[02:07:24] or maybe she has different ways of getting clients

[02:07:27] or just he somehow insinuated himself in her life

[02:07:30] or whatever.

[02:07:31] And they don't show us any subtitles

[02:07:35] when she's talking to that guy.

[02:07:37] So it's very possible the conversation

[02:07:39] they're having is her being like,

[02:07:41] you need to seem angrier.

[02:07:43] Now grab my arm.

[02:07:45] I wondered that too,

[02:07:46] because if someone spoke Italian,

[02:07:47] I wonder if it's clear enough.

[02:07:50] They probably did have a actual conversation

[02:07:53] that could be interpreted that way,

[02:07:54] just in case people speak Italian.

[02:07:56] Either that or else it wasn't legible.

[02:07:58] You wouldn't hear it.

[02:08:00] I feel like we should have looked that up,

[02:08:02] what they said.

[02:08:02] I'm sure.

[02:08:03] Yeah, yeah.

[02:08:04] Maybe next time we can find out.

[02:08:06] What else?

[02:08:07] That's all I had for spoilers.

[02:08:09] Well, Quinton talking about the young cowboy

[02:08:12] fell in love with from Wyoming.

[02:08:15] I assume he is talking about Greg

[02:08:17] because we know Greg is from Wyoming.

[02:08:20] Oh, wow.

[02:08:21] Yeah. Oh my God, it's her husband.

[02:08:24] Holy shit.

[02:08:25] And he said he was in love with him,

[02:08:28] but he's a heterosexual,

[02:08:30] so it was never going to work out.

[02:08:32] And he said he would have done anything for him.

[02:08:34] And 30 years later, he still would.

[02:08:36] So I guess. Yes.

[02:08:38] He is still doing that.

[02:08:40] So I think that's the man

[02:08:42] to kill his wife, right?

[02:08:44] Yes. Yeah.

[02:08:45] Wow.

[02:08:46] That's incredible.

[02:08:47] I never caught that.

[02:08:47] I don't think it's the first time.

[02:08:48] What? You never caught that?

[02:08:50] I think we see a picture of him.

[02:08:52] Later.

[02:08:53] I mean, it's cowboy, right?

[02:08:54] Yeah.

[02:08:55] But I just didn't catch.

[02:08:56] At least I don't remember catching

[02:08:58] that that's who he was referring to in this scene.

[02:09:00] Yeah.

[02:09:01] Yeah, I don't think I had either the first time.

[02:09:03] And it seems like Tanya almost catches it as well.

[02:09:07] She at least has a moment where she pauses

[02:09:10] after he says a cowboy in Wyoming

[02:09:11] where she's probably like, oh yeah, Greg's also.

[02:09:14] But I don't think she's like putting anything together.

[02:09:17] No way.

[02:09:17] She would. Yeah.

[02:09:19] But Jenny did apparently.

[02:09:21] She knew he was talking about Greg the whole time.

[02:09:22] I felt it was related,

[02:09:24] but at the same time, it didn't mean there were murders.

[02:09:27] You know? Yeah.

[02:09:28] Yeah.

[02:09:28] It was just thinking.

[02:09:29] He was talking about Greg

[02:09:31] when he was saying about this cowboy

[02:09:32] that he fell in love with.

[02:09:34] Well, yeah, because we know Greg is a BLM total cowboy man.

[02:09:38] I mean, who else?

[02:09:40] She held on to all of the info on him.

[02:09:43] I mean, now because we're paying attention,

[02:09:45] I remembered that he was from Wyoming in a cowboy.

[02:09:49] So that story at the very least

[02:09:51] in like a very soap opera way,

[02:09:53] you could be like, all right, yeah,

[02:09:54] maybe he had known this guy.

[02:09:56] No, I didn't know.

[02:09:57] Where is he?

[02:09:58] Where where does this cowboy from?

[02:10:01] Wyoming. Wyoming.

[02:10:02] I didn't remember Greg was from Wyoming.

[02:10:04] I still don't remember him ever seeing anything

[02:10:06] associated with the cowboy.

[02:10:07] So I just forgot the details.

[02:10:09] He's working for the BLM.

[02:10:12] And I think he was saying he was like in charge

[02:10:14] of how many agents out of Rangers or something like that.

[02:10:16] I forget whether he was out of Denver or somewhere in Texas.

[02:10:19] But definitely.

[02:10:21] Yeah, I don't picture cowboys.

[02:10:23] I picture, I don't know, people taking care of land.

[02:10:26] I guess that's what cowboys do.

[02:10:28] Maybe he started out that way.

[02:10:29] He quite the same way.

[02:10:30] Yeah, yeah.

[02:10:31] I guess I hang out with more BLM people.

[02:10:34] Yeah, I don't know.

[02:10:36] As an outdoors person who has to.

[02:10:38] I just think of Burning Man, like Breaux of Land Management.

[02:10:41] I know they take care of the dried out bed

[02:10:44] that Burning Man takes place on.

[02:10:45] And I don't imagine there are a bunch of cowboys

[02:10:47] rustling cattle out there.

[02:10:48] Right.

[02:10:49] But it just means outdoors person.

[02:10:51] You know, people who hang around and are often.

[02:10:55] I feel I had to defend myself because you seemed like

[02:10:58] you thought it was really stupid

[02:10:59] that I didn't realize I was him.

[02:11:00] Well, I mean, and I was just thinking

[02:11:02] it was going to be a con.

[02:11:03] I mean, until the very end,

[02:11:05] I didn't really know whether they were going to try

[02:11:07] to kill her versus some other sort of con.

[02:11:11] Because, you know, they're fun loving games.

[02:11:14] I didn't think it was going to turn into a Quentin Tarantino

[02:11:17] movie at the end.

[02:11:20] Which is fucking awesome.

[02:11:21] But I can't wait to get to that part.

[02:11:22] So excited.

[02:11:25] And yeah, there's the conversation where he's saying

[02:11:27] you would die for beauty and asks if she would.

[02:11:30] And essentially, I think what he's getting out

[02:11:32] of this arrangement is the money to maintain his beauty.

[02:11:36] So he's literally asking like, would you die for beauty?

[02:11:40] Because that's what I need.

[02:11:42] Yeah, it's expensive to maintain that pile.

[02:11:48] As they say. That was a great one.

[02:11:49] What else?

[02:11:51] And then I think the other one that we hinted at

[02:11:54] was that the opera kind of reflects what is going on

[02:11:57] with Tanya and Quentin.

[02:11:59] She's kind of being or it might be Tanya and Greg really

[02:12:02] that she's kind of ignoring a bunch of red flags

[02:12:06] from the guy that she's fallen in love with.

[02:12:08] And at the end, something tragic happens to her because of it.

[02:12:12] If you fall off a boat and.

[02:12:14] Yeah, classic opera ending.

[02:12:20] Anything else, Jenny?

[02:12:22] I'm just trying to think of.

[02:12:24] Yeah, it wasn't, you know, even.

[02:12:26] I just remember when I first watched the episode

[02:12:28] and I was still wondering whether Lucia, you know,

[02:12:30] suddenly she has this like mean pimp.

[02:12:33] And I was like, why you never mentioned a mean pimp before

[02:12:35] to Mia or anything.

[02:12:38] And yet somehow I remember still giving her the benefit of the towel.

[02:12:42] Like maybe she does have a mean pimp, you know, it's not unknown.

[02:12:44] Yeah, I believed it.

[02:12:46] I totally was shocked at the end when he turned out to be her friend

[02:12:50] and it was all a scam.

[02:12:52] I fell for it.

[02:12:53] Hooker and sinker.

[02:12:55] I mean, I maybe doubted that she was being completely sincere with Albie,

[02:13:00] but I didn't know the whole pimp thing was a scam.

[02:13:04] Right. And for me, I mean, as Jenny pointed out, you know,

[02:13:08] I come from a sex worker background.

[02:13:12] For me, it just felt like she didn't have to scam.

[02:13:15] I mean, it's I'm not saying a scam or not, but like if you're using

[02:13:19] a guy for his money, whether you do it all at once or over several months.

[02:13:24] I mean, I don't know the difference.

[02:13:26] So, you know, for me, I was like, oh,

[02:13:29] so she decided to do it as a one time scam and stay in Italy versus a

[02:13:34] longtime relationship and go to California.

[02:13:39] I mean, that's how I just.

[02:13:41] Well, I kind of wonder a couple of episodes ago when she said,

[02:13:45] I want to get out of this life, maybe that maybe she's just looking

[02:13:48] for a big score so she can use it to go try to do something.

[02:13:51] Yeah, to finally move on and open her store or something like that.

[02:13:55] Yeah, yeah, open the store.

[02:13:56] Yeah. And also,

[02:13:57] she has a short amount of time with him.

[02:14:00] She only has a week, so it might be easier or more of a guarantee

[02:14:04] that she could get some money out of him now as opposed to

[02:14:08] going to Los Angeles with him or something.

[02:14:11] Yeah, I mean, I can look at it and be like, yeah, that's

[02:14:15] that's the sensible one if you can pull it off.

[02:14:17] Yeah, she seems capable. Yeah.

[02:14:22] Jenny's all I totally admire this.

[02:14:23] Yeah.

[02:14:27] All right, anything else?

[02:14:28] It's all I got.

[02:14:30] Hey, I'm not going to say admire as much as I mean, OK,

[02:14:33] playing with feelings is bad, but.

[02:14:37] If there's one thing that this show shows, it's that everything.

[02:14:41] I won't even say it's a deal, right?

[02:14:42] But if we use microeconomic theory,

[02:14:46] everybody is getting something out of the relationship.

[02:14:50] And that's why they stay in it.

[02:14:52] And for whatever reason, people are in a more

[02:14:56] however you want to define it and they're getting something out of it.

[02:14:59] And we can analyze why are they staying together?

[02:15:02] Why is blah, blah, blah, blah?

[02:15:03] Why is this messed up?

[02:15:04] Why is it like that?

[02:15:05] But somehow they're getting something out of it.

[02:15:07] And that's why they're together.

[02:15:08] And yeah.

[02:15:10] And if you're lying about why you're in the relationship

[02:15:13] because you think that's lie is what's going to take

[02:15:15] for the other person to keep giving you money, then I think that's wrong.

[02:15:19] Well, I should then probably reveal to both of you

[02:15:24] that I have been a podcast worker.

[02:15:28] It's actually two thousand dollars a night.

[02:15:33] Hey, that sounds like a steal.

[02:15:35] You got it.

[02:15:38] I mean, I do.

[02:15:39] I do know, like when in the end it was revealed that it was a one time score.

[02:15:42] I did feel like, OK, that that feels way more of a scam

[02:15:46] than if she had like run off with him to LA.

[02:15:49] You know, and you're going to like

[02:15:51] this is kind of fly.

[02:15:53] Yeah, their relationships.

[02:15:55] Yeah.

[02:15:56] When it comes to Albie, though, I think it's probably the better outcome

[02:16:00] that he just got one big time scan as opposed to a lifetime scam.

[02:16:04] Yeah, yeah.

[02:16:05] I agree with that.

[02:16:06] Yeah. Yeah.

[02:16:08] All right, I think that'll be good. Cool.

[02:16:11] All right. All right.

[02:16:12] Yeah, you won't go get a rice bowl.

[02:16:14] Let's go to Ruffle.