24: "Crisis Theory" (S3E8)

[00:00:00] This week we're covering Westworld Season 3, episode

[00:02:49] Yeah, I think you're supposed to probably go get tested if you can.

[00:02:53] If you can. Yeah.

[00:02:56] That's interesting.

[00:02:57] I have been fascinated by some other technological developments in the pandemic

[00:03:02] like one of the companies that makes thermometers.

[00:03:07] They feed anonymized data into a central server.

[00:03:13] So they were able to track general trends in the outbreak in the United States

[00:03:19] and worldwide, to some degree, faster almost than anyone else

[00:03:24] because they could tell where people have fevers like in large numbers.

[00:03:28] So that was pretty interesting.

[00:03:30] And now I know there are groups tracking that the social distancing has been breaking down

[00:03:37] just because there's more mobility of people like phones or phone locations

[00:03:42] are moving around more the last week or two than they were before.

[00:03:46] Right.

[00:03:47] Yeah, I think I read something about that too so they can tell that people

[00:03:50] are getting tired of it and not obeying the rules and stuff.

[00:03:54] Yeah. So all these big data sources are it's here that they're being used in that way.

[00:04:00] Yeah. And I think it really is going to make a difference.

[00:04:03] It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

[00:04:06] But I just thought I'd mention it because it's exactly like the kind

[00:04:09] of technology that we've seen play out in Westworld this season where it's really

[00:04:12] attractive but also kind of scary.

[00:04:16] Yeah. And also I think as we've said this season, the Westworld portrayed 2058

[00:04:21] doesn't seem very far away where we are.

[00:04:24] It's more like 2025 or something.

[00:04:26] Yeah.

[00:04:28] Well, speaking of Westworld, let's get into the finale of season three.

[00:04:32] So it's our top five highlights for season three episode eight crisis theory.

[00:04:36] What did you think of this one?

[00:04:38] I enjoyed it quite a bit.

[00:04:40] I have to admit I didn't love it upon first watching.

[00:04:43] I enjoyed it a lot more on second watching.

[00:04:46] Same, exactly.

[00:04:49] So I think it's being able to step back from it a second time helps.

[00:04:54] And also I think it still did have a lot of the weaknesses that

[00:04:57] bugged me about the whole season and I kind of was obsessing

[00:05:00] on them at first watching and the second time I was able to let it go.

[00:05:03] Yeah. It's yeah.

[00:05:06] It's interesting because for me, I had some expectations and some hopes

[00:05:10] and it really did not meet them.

[00:05:11] And so that was one reason why I didn't like it.

[00:05:14] And also the kind of things that we've been complaining about really stood out.

[00:05:18] But I think on second watch, I knew my hopes weren't going to be met.

[00:05:21] So I wasn't worried about that.

[00:05:23] And maybe I already expected the things I didn't like so they didn't

[00:05:26] sting quite as much.

[00:05:27] And then I was able to just more focus on what was going on.

[00:05:30] That was cool.

[00:05:31] And there was a lot of cool stuff.

[00:05:32] So I still didn't love it.

[00:05:34] It's not my favorite, but I think it was pretty good and it had a lot of

[00:05:37] interesting things in it.

[00:05:39] Yeah, it was of a piece with the rest of the season.

[00:05:42] The season finale has usually been really good in this show.

[00:05:46] And I think this season finale was good compared to the season

[00:05:51] in the same ratio as the others.

[00:05:55] We I don't quite get that.

[00:05:57] Meaning the season wasn't as good.

[00:06:00] And the finale wasn't as good.

[00:06:01] But it was about as good for this season as the other ones were for their

[00:06:06] seasons for their seasons.

[00:06:07] OK, yeah, yeah, I think I'd agree with that.

[00:06:10] All right, let's get into our one more thing I just wanted to mention.

[00:06:15] One of the things I was I was really expecting but didn't happen.

[00:06:18] Nothing we were watching this season was a secret simulation.

[00:06:21] As far as as we know, you said you didn't want that to happen.

[00:06:25] So I was thinking you must be happy that it didn't.

[00:06:28] I was glad they didn't go there.

[00:06:30] And actually, I know we'll talk about this as we go.

[00:06:34] But they we all were sort of half right about Sirach.

[00:06:39] So I mean, he's real, but it turned out that he kind of was just

[00:06:45] a manifestation of the computer.

[00:06:46] So I figure like you and Karen were kind of right on that point,

[00:06:50] although not literally not in the way we thought.

[00:06:53] And now I really liked that development.

[00:06:56] That was one of the things I really liked about the episode

[00:06:58] because it was unexpected and just kind of sad and creepy and scary.

[00:07:04] And I really liked it when, you know, you know that he's just repeating

[00:07:09] what is whispering in his ear.

[00:07:12] Yeah, it was sort of a bleak but a great story point.

[00:07:16] Yeah, exactly. OK, what's your number five?

[00:07:20] So I think I should before we get into the my number five,

[00:07:24] I should admit to the listeners that we just stopped down for a second.

[00:07:28] And I went to get a LaCroix because I forgot to bring in something to drink,

[00:07:32] you know, during our whole podcast.

[00:07:33] And and I had to walk by Karen to go to the fridge and get this LaCroix.

[00:07:38] And she's like, wow, you are really a prima donna.

[00:07:44] Whatever she loves LaCroix.

[00:07:48] All right. So my number five is Mysteries Revealed.

[00:07:54] One good thing you can count on from a Westworld season finale

[00:07:57] is a lot of questions answered or mysteries solved.

[00:08:04] So this episode had a bunch.

[00:08:07] First, we find a twist that Dolores ultimate plan essentially was to set

[00:08:12] the humans free or at least to give them a chance rather than to exterminate

[00:08:18] the human race. So that was a big one.

[00:08:22] Yeah, that was a great one.

[00:08:23] I mean, the part of me that feels I liked it.

[00:08:28] But that feels critical about that is, you know,

[00:08:33] she could have mentioned that to Maeve, Caleb and Bernard.

[00:08:39] And it would have maybe helped them inform their own decisions.

[00:08:43] And she didn't because I mean, maybe you could argue that Caleb

[00:08:47] wasn't ready to hear that, you know, but but I don't know.

[00:08:50] I would argue that she could have told him at some point.

[00:08:54] But yeah, I'd say she didn't mention it

[00:08:56] because she's they were fooling the audience.

[00:08:58] Exactly. And that kind of thing.

[00:09:00] I mean, you know, I can't say that no show should ever do that

[00:09:04] because you got to have some mystery.

[00:09:06] But I am always way more impressed when people hold things back

[00:09:10] for a reason other than just to fool the audience, you know?

[00:09:13] Yes, as Robert Ford masterfully did throughout the first couple of seasons of this show.

[00:09:20] So we learn why Dolores chose Caleb.

[00:09:25] Essentially, he was kind to her after a military training exercise in the park.

[00:09:31] He stopped fellow soldiers from presumably raping the rescued women.

[00:09:38] I'm going to break in and just give a disclaimer here that

[00:09:42] all the things that bugged me about this episode, I compressed into one

[00:09:47] thing, which is my number three.

[00:09:50] So because otherwise, I'll be stopping to say I like this,

[00:09:53] but I didn't like that. Yeah, I got it.

[00:09:58] So we learn that Bernard's key role in the plan is that he has

[00:10:02] the cryptographic key that Dolores implanted in him, which

[00:10:07] as I understand it, is the key both to accessing the sublime

[00:10:11] and also to accessing the human DNA biometric data.

[00:10:19] Right. Correct.

[00:10:20] Which Surak refers to as Delos Immortality Project.

[00:10:24] Right. And so there I my surmises were exactly sort of reversed.

[00:10:30] I had thought all along that the reason she wanted Bernard had something

[00:10:35] to do with his ability to make a choice.

[00:10:38] And it actually turns out that was about Caleb, not him.

[00:10:42] And and his thing was something else.

[00:10:45] Yeah. And for Bernard, it was that she she said

[00:10:49] she didn't trust herself to hold on to that.

[00:10:51] And so and she did trust Bernard.

[00:10:55] Right, which is nice.

[00:10:57] They've always had a special relationship. Yeah.

[00:11:00] So we learn what Char Lotte is up to.

[00:11:04] She's building a host army to exterminate humanity

[00:11:09] as we originally assumed to be Dolores Prime's plan.

[00:11:14] And we find out that she's gone full predator at this point

[00:11:18] and even says her family that we know she cared about was a weakness

[00:11:22] that she needed to shed.

[00:11:23] Yeah, she at the end of the season,

[00:11:26] she's in a position, you know, kind of emotionally

[00:11:31] and with her motivations and her actions to where I thought

[00:11:35] Dolores might be at some point in this season, Dolores Prime.

[00:11:38] Right. She's sort of taken over the Dolores Prime

[00:11:41] Terminator exterminate humanity. Yeah.

[00:11:45] So keep me honest on this one, but this was my interpretation.

[00:11:50] There was a fifth Dolores,

[00:11:53] which we went back and forth on a bunch of times

[00:11:56] throughout the season.

[00:11:57] And it turned out to be in Lawrence, who shows up as a San Francisco cop.

[00:12:04] Yeah, that's right.

[00:12:05] Yeah, I mean, I always thought there was Dolores Prime

[00:12:09] for other Doloreses and Bernard.

[00:12:13] Right. But at one point, at one point, we had thought

[00:12:16] she only brought five pearls out.

[00:12:19] Yeah. OK, so that's her four others and Bernard.

[00:12:22] Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:23] And so I guess Lawrence was in Berlin at some point.

[00:12:26] I don't know. Yeah, that's just left hanging.

[00:12:30] I will complain about that later.

[00:12:34] Sirach turns out to be fully controlled by Rahobam,

[00:12:38] who is literally telling him what to say,

[00:12:41] Vienna Earpiece, which you already mentioned.

[00:12:43] He does say when May have calls him on it,

[00:12:48] he says something like I choose to obey or something like that.

[00:12:55] I forgot what I said exactly.

[00:12:56] But I think it was a moment where he actually said what he was feeling

[00:12:59] rather than having it whispered into his ear, although I guess you never know.

[00:13:04] Right. And and the show likes to reflect back to itself so often

[00:13:11] hearing Rahobam give him the script was like that scene earlier in the series

[00:13:17] where we see Maeve's dialogue before she says it. Totally.

[00:13:21] Yeah. And then my favorite one or at least

[00:13:26] I think a big one we've all been waiting for was what is the last park?

[00:13:31] Yeah. And and it turns out to be

[00:13:34] faux America military training for the military,

[00:13:38] which really I thought was that actually was a good point.

[00:13:41] That makes perfect sense.

[00:13:43] Yeah, I mean, it would be a really good.

[00:13:46] The military would love that.

[00:13:48] Yeah. And you could make a lot of money, I'm sure,

[00:13:50] and do some great brain research checks a lot of boxes.

[00:13:55] All right. Yeah. Good for both sides. Yeah.

[00:13:58] I mean, when I first when that revelation first came up,

[00:14:01] I was a bit confused.

[00:14:03] I thought I thought that that whole arrangement for the military to use Park

[00:14:08] Five, I was like, oh, is that does that mean that the outlier program

[00:14:15] is involved with Park Five and that Caleb was never in Russia?

[00:14:19] He was in Park Five.

[00:14:20] And if insight was that tight with Delos this whole time,

[00:14:26] then why does it seem like they didn't have that strong of a relationship?

[00:14:29] But then I realized and I think I'm right about this that no,

[00:14:32] that had nothing to do with insight.

[00:14:34] It was just that while Caleb was in the army, he had his training in Park Five

[00:14:39] and that was an arrangement between Delos and the military, the US military.

[00:14:44] Yeah, I think that's right.

[00:14:45] And we had seen a snippet of that in the back story about Caleb

[00:14:50] episode without knowing what it was. Right.

[00:14:56] Yeah, that was I mean, and another thing I wondered about that was

[00:15:01] well, if you know, we've seen the makeshift

[00:15:06] Delos destinations website that had

[00:15:10] six parks and it said these ones were offline because they didn't want to tell us

[00:15:14] which ones they were.

[00:15:15] And so I still do think it's a little silly that they would include

[00:15:18] this military one as part of that.

[00:15:21] But apparently now on the website, it says this is classified

[00:15:24] and it's a military something or other.

[00:15:27] So gotcha.

[00:15:29] So.

[00:15:30] So, yeah, so Westworld, Shogun World, the Raj

[00:15:34] Fantasy World, right?

[00:15:36] Whatever the dragon was.

[00:15:37] Westworld's world.

[00:15:38] Yeah. Right.

[00:15:40] War World.

[00:15:42] Although we never actually saw a war world.

[00:15:45] We saw it in a bunch of simulations.

[00:15:46] I think someone alluded to it being real, though.

[00:15:49] I think I could be wrong, but I'm I think so too.

[00:15:52] But I don't think we actually saw it.

[00:15:54] And then I was calling the last one Camp Delos.

[00:15:57] So I actually went and checked the Delos destinations.com website today.

[00:16:04] Just to see what it would say.

[00:16:09] And it says park offline, the whole thing.

[00:16:13] Delos destinations regets the temporary closure of our parks.

[00:16:17] We're undergoing unscheduled maintenance to improve several safety

[00:16:19] and structural systems to maximize the experience of our guests.

[00:16:23] Yeah, I hear there was some incident.

[00:16:25] So I don't know.

[00:16:26] Hopefully they'll be back soon.

[00:16:28] It says existing bookings for experienced guests will be honored at a later date.

[00:16:32] Boy, that sounds too close to the real world.

[00:16:36] New perspective guests should refer to our video resource catalog

[00:16:39] in preparation for a future stay and will be notified once park reservations are reopened.

[00:16:43] Please check back in again soon.

[00:16:45] Your life without limits will resume shortly.

[00:16:49] That does not seem likely.

[00:16:52] OK, cool.

[00:16:53] So this kind of goes along with what you're saying.

[00:16:55] Revelations, which are always nice.

[00:16:56] But my number five is scenes and lines that I especially liked in this episode.

[00:17:01] As I mentioned, I like that Rahoboam was whispering into Sirach's ear the whole time

[00:17:05] and and in that it was Rahoboam that told him to get rid of his brother

[00:17:09] because I had been thinking that Sirach was this kind of a guy

[00:17:14] who are there are plenty of guys like this who, you know,

[00:17:17] want everyone else to submit to this system while they get to play God

[00:17:22] and and he's a hypocrite, you know?

[00:17:24] But it turns out that he's following the system, too.

[00:17:28] And I just thought there was something

[00:17:32] I don't know.

[00:17:34] It's creepy and I've already mentioned it, but I just love that.

[00:17:38] And I read somebody mentioned that in German,

[00:17:42] the word for angel is Engel, I guess.

[00:17:45] And so that's a bit like Engerot.

[00:17:47] Engerot, who maybe is like an angel

[00:17:50] who considers himself a servant of God.

[00:17:53] Oh, that's interesting.

[00:17:54] Yeah. And we had kind of speculated about this that

[00:17:58] and it actually makes sense for A.I.

[00:18:00] is that big and powerful.

[00:18:02] So we really find that the last two episodes

[00:18:06] were the two A.I.'s versus each other, essentially.

[00:18:09] Right. It was it was Jean-Mier versus Sirach,

[00:18:13] but expressed in A.I.

[00:18:15] Yeah. And now Sirach is pretty much powerless,

[00:18:21] but still alive.

[00:18:23] And we don't know if that E.M.P.

[00:18:26] just ruined Solomon or turned it off for a little while,

[00:18:28] but I guess that could be a future plot point.

[00:18:32] We also don't know if Jean-Mier is still in deep freeze or what.

[00:18:35] I assume so, but I don't know.

[00:18:37] But the E.M.P. could have killed all of them, too.

[00:18:39] Yeah, they're rotting now.

[00:18:41] Yeah.

[00:18:43] We don't really know for sure.

[00:18:44] We don't know.

[00:18:45] I did wonder why Maeve is just now able to tune in and hear

[00:18:49] Rahoboam talking to Sirach.

[00:18:51] That was pretty convenient.

[00:18:52] It was.

[00:18:54] Oh, well.

[00:18:55] And then I love the whole thing about Caleb going to,

[00:19:00] how do you say, Itai Doshan Distillery,

[00:19:04] which presumably is part of the I mean,

[00:19:07] we saw when Maeve was in Singapore and found Musashi Dolores

[00:19:12] at the Itai Doshan Distillery there.

[00:19:14] This is like another branch of that.

[00:19:16] Yeah, I assumed it was like a Yaka's shell company

[00:19:20] that she got control of or something.

[00:19:21] Yeah.

[00:19:22] And so it shows that Musashi Dolores has been a big part of all of this,

[00:19:27] but it's just kind of been in the background and we haven't seen a lot of it,

[00:19:30] which I think is kind of cool, you know,

[00:19:32] just to know that a lot of stuff was going on too that we didn't get to see.

[00:19:36] But it's for practical things like keeping a backup body for yourself.

[00:19:42] So he goes there to get unpacked this Dolores body

[00:19:46] and, you know, put the pearl into the little proboscis comes out to receive it.

[00:19:51] And then when she's talking to him, it seems kind of ominous

[00:19:55] and she's like casually breaks free from her chains

[00:19:58] and then starts pulling on her skin like its clothes.

[00:20:01] That whole scene I just thought was super cool.

[00:20:03] Yeah, I loved it too.

[00:20:06] It was ominous too because we didn't know yet that Dolores was, you know,

[00:20:10] on Caleb's side, so it almost seemed like he was going to harm

[00:20:12] or she was going to harm him for a second there to me anyway.

[00:20:15] And then later when Dolores tried to cut off,

[00:20:18] I mean, Maeve tried to cut off Dolores's arm again and chunk.

[00:20:21] But now she has her that's basically

[00:20:25] the same style of body that Dolores had as we've seen in flashbacks

[00:20:29] in the park when she was first made.

[00:20:31] And we know that she's the oldest host in the park.

[00:20:33] So as Dolores said, they they built us to last before they made us

[00:20:37] as weak as they are.

[00:20:38] So now she's stronger.

[00:20:40] And I thought that was that was pretty neat.

[00:20:42] The whole thing.

[00:20:43] Yeah, I was going to say the apparently their original bodies

[00:20:47] were physically tougher than the two point oh,

[00:20:49] although it hasn't really been portrayed that way all along.

[00:20:54] But I mean, the host 2.0 seemed pretty rugged too.

[00:20:57] They take up, take some bullets and keep on ticking.

[00:21:00] So yeah, that's true.

[00:21:02] And you know, I just realized I had in my head

[00:21:06] a Maeve had chopped Dolores's arm off, but that's not what happened.

[00:21:10] It was the it was the drone.

[00:21:13] Shorter. So we don't know what would happen if the drone shot her

[00:21:17] in this body either. We don't know.

[00:21:19] Right. I liked when William goes

[00:21:24] and meets his like associate slash assistant

[00:21:28] and he's like, I don't understand.

[00:21:30] I heard you had some kind of mental break.

[00:21:32] Now you're here drinking a twenty thousand dollar bottle of whiskey

[00:21:35] and William just says, ain't life grand.

[00:21:39] Now go get my money.

[00:21:40] Yeah, that was pretty good.

[00:21:43] I got two more.

[00:21:44] I liked when this was probably my favorite when Dolores

[00:21:48] or Maeve said, you want to tear down their world

[00:21:50] and replace it with copies of yourself?

[00:21:52] And Dolores said, you're all copies of me.

[00:21:57] Yeah, she she owned her on that one.

[00:22:01] That was good.

[00:22:02] And I wondered if that was supposed to be some kind of a revelation.

[00:22:05] I mean, she said that she was the first one that worked

[00:22:07] and they built all the rest from her.

[00:22:10] Maybe seems a little bit like, oh,

[00:22:12] maybe she's more in a piece of all the other ones

[00:22:15] than we realized, I don't know.

[00:22:18] I suppose. Yeah.

[00:22:19] But it kind of just seemed like ego.

[00:22:21] Right, which I think is actually better. Yeah.

[00:22:25] And then last, I mean, I just liked that the whole episode

[00:22:29] had moments of having a fight club feel,

[00:22:31] which is one of my favorite movies,

[00:22:34] like their Dolores and Caleb are out in the chaotic streets

[00:22:38] trying to get to a real woman, a bunch of armed guys appears

[00:22:41] and he's about to shoot them and she's like, puts her hand out.

[00:22:43] No, there are.

[00:22:44] And one of them is like, we've been told to get you downtown, sir.

[00:22:47] I'm sure that that's a deliberate direct reference

[00:22:51] to fight club where these armed guys in black are calling him sir.

[00:22:57] And he's like, why do they keep calling me sir?

[00:22:59] I'm like, because you're Tyler Durden.

[00:23:03] Right. So I just liked all that.

[00:23:05] And then at the end when with Caleb and Maeve looking out on

[00:23:09] in the city and there's explosions going off,

[00:23:11] that very much felt like the end of fight club.

[00:23:15] Yeah. And this is a show that is very eager always to call back

[00:23:19] to its influences and the things that creators love.

[00:23:23] So I'm sure you're right.

[00:23:24] They did it on purpose.

[00:23:25] Yeah. And you know, you could argue that that kind of thing is

[00:23:30] maybe lazy or something.

[00:23:31] I don't know, but I think it's really worked.

[00:23:33] I'm loving all of that kind of a thing.

[00:23:35] But plus the Dolores Maeve fight felt like fight club.

[00:23:40] Yeah, I guess so. Yeah.

[00:23:42] That's all I got.

[00:23:43] OK, so for my number four,

[00:23:45] I will continue with the scene with Caleb and the original Dolores,

[00:23:49] which I thought was the best scene in this episode.

[00:23:53] It to me, it was the most Westworld like scene,

[00:23:56] like the most sort of intricate and revealing

[00:24:00] and emotionally tense without needing a lot of action.

[00:24:06] Her original body is fascinating.

[00:24:08] Yes, we've seen it before,

[00:24:10] but I think the original hosts are pretty compelling.

[00:24:13] Like if you remember old Bill

[00:24:15] way back in the beginning of the show, who was kept down in storage.

[00:24:19] And and then it was kind of crude. Yeah.

[00:24:23] And her face, we have been seeing all year in the opening credits,

[00:24:30] which turns out to be the original hosts

[00:24:33] are front loaders for the Pearl.

[00:24:36] I did think it was a little far fetched

[00:24:38] that the original Pearl still works in

[00:24:43] still compatible with the new model.

[00:24:45] But OK, fine.

[00:24:48] As you pointed out, Caleb seems a little afraid of her.

[00:24:52] And but she also shows some vulnerability.

[00:24:54] She says, you know, I wasn't sure you would bring me back.

[00:24:59] Right.

[00:24:59] And if he had not done that, her whole plan is dead.

[00:25:03] So yeah.

[00:25:05] So it was a risk in which she took on some vulnerability.

[00:25:10] And I thought it was the first time in this episode

[00:25:12] we start to see some of the old Dolores.

[00:25:14] There's some sparks of empathy, you know,

[00:25:17] in addition to the the Terminator persona.

[00:25:20] Yeah. And it was tough this season, I'm sure.

[00:25:23] I mean, that's one of the problems with the season is you don't know who to root for.

[00:25:27] And that's because they were keeping her motivations a mystery.

[00:25:30] And because they were keeping it a mystery,

[00:25:32] she had to be kind of vague about it too and seem threatening.

[00:25:37] And so yeah, now maybe that maybe in this episode

[00:25:42] she was letting herself be more empathetic and vulnerable.

[00:25:47] Yeah. And I did think with the original host body

[00:25:52] and they never really put her in a position

[00:25:55] where she would have to fool anyone.

[00:25:57] But it seems like it would be a lot tougher

[00:25:59] to seem fully human in that body.

[00:26:02] Yeah. But one thing I really thought was cool is that

[00:26:06] even though it's this really mechanical structure

[00:26:11] that I'm sure they must have done mocap with Evan Rachel Woods

[00:26:15] because the way it moved was really

[00:26:19] I mean, she just moves kind of sexily, you know.

[00:26:22] And so it was interesting to see this sort of skeletal

[00:26:25] Terminator like machine move like a woman.

[00:26:28] I like that.

[00:26:30] Yeah, it was really well done.

[00:26:32] So just really enjoyed that.

[00:26:34] I thought it was a great scene.

[00:26:36] It was well thought out.

[00:26:37] It pointed to her how intricate her plans were made in advance.

[00:26:43] And just everything about it struck the right notes to me.

[00:26:47] Totally.

[00:26:49] OK, my number four is Dolores plan

[00:26:53] revealed and really where I think we get the clearest

[00:26:57] pictures is in this exchange with Maeve,

[00:27:00] which I think happened when they somehow

[00:27:04] spirit themselves into this virtual world

[00:27:08] at the end there right before Dolores memory got wiped.

[00:27:12] But Maeve says, I understand your anger with them

[00:27:14] and maybe you're right, maybe they shouldn't exist.

[00:27:17] But is that really our decision to make?

[00:27:19] And Dolores says, no, I was angry at first,

[00:27:21] torn between two impulses.

[00:27:23] We could annihilate them or we can tear down their world

[00:27:26] in the hopes we can build a new one when that's truly free.

[00:27:30] Then we can bring the others, meaning the hosts back.

[00:27:33] So that really shows that her whole point right now is

[00:27:40] that to free the humans from

[00:27:44] Rahul, Borms control and she thinks that doing.

[00:27:49] And I had speculated about this in an earlier episode,

[00:27:51] but that that will hopefully create an environment

[00:27:55] where the hosts can coexist with them, I guess.

[00:27:58] It sort of begs the question to me.

[00:28:00] I mean, this season we learned that Rahul

[00:28:02] Borm has this heavy amount of control over society.

[00:28:05] But Dolores didn't know that coming in.

[00:28:08] She just came in with a huge, you know,

[00:28:11] anger towards humanity and the desire to destroy them all.

[00:28:15] So I think she made this decision.

[00:28:18] As she said, she's been struggling with two impulses

[00:28:21] before the season even started

[00:28:23] because she also decided to give Bernard control of the key.

[00:28:29] So that to me says that she was already thinking along these lines early on.

[00:28:34] And so it makes me wonder what would she have done

[00:28:37] if Rahul Borm wasn't in control of everything?

[00:28:40] I mean, you know, if she'd just come into it,

[00:28:45] I don't think Rahul Borm figured into her decision

[00:28:48] to try to save humanity.

[00:28:49] I don't know, though, because I don't really know.

[00:28:54] Yeah.

[00:28:54] I mean, I think she's conveniently seemed to know a lot about everything

[00:29:00] throughout the whole season,

[00:29:01] which you just have to stretch and accept to accept the plot.

[00:29:04] Yeah.

[00:29:05] Because she seemed to start with a ton of knowledge.

[00:29:08] But I agree with you, the crux of her plan

[00:29:12] is coexistence.

[00:29:15] And we don't really know a lot more about the details than that.

[00:29:19] But Sirach, speaking for Rahul Borm,

[00:29:23] was very clear in their vision.

[00:29:26] There can be no coexistence.

[00:29:28] It's us or you. Right.

[00:29:30] And she knew she had to take care of that.

[00:29:32] And we thought Dolores's view, but now Charlotte's view is it's us or you.

[00:29:38] We can't coexist.

[00:29:39] So Dolores seems to be the one now, along with Bernard, who felt us all along.

[00:29:45] Bernard's always been like that.

[00:29:46] Yes, that they could.

[00:29:48] There might be room for both.

[00:29:50] But I'm not sure why.

[00:29:51] I mean, we see that Rahul Borm, you know, they ask

[00:29:56] Caleb asked him what happens if we upload the strategy.

[00:30:00] And it says it's the end of human civilization in 50 to 125 years.

[00:30:07] And Mavz says to Dolores,

[00:30:10] the world you're building for them is an abattoir,

[00:30:12] which I had to look that up, but it's a slaughterhouse.

[00:30:15] So I guess Dolores is just taking the risk that Rahul Borm is wrong.

[00:30:23] Well, and one thing we have kept hearing from Sirach

[00:30:28] speaking for the AI is that Dolores's pathways are unknown.

[00:30:34] Right. She's an outlier.

[00:30:35] She's unpredictable.

[00:30:37] She doesn't fit into the system, whatever.

[00:30:39] So I guess that's plausible

[00:30:42] that somehow she could lead an outcome that it can't envision.

[00:30:46] Yeah, or I mean, she seems to be really banking on Caleb being this big leader,

[00:30:51] which that's a big part of her plan.

[00:30:55] I mean, the nuts and bolts of her plan are for her to get Caleb,

[00:30:59] who is this person that she knows is a capable fighter.

[00:31:03] But also he already exercises choice because it's all about freedom

[00:31:07] and choice and free will.

[00:31:09] And he can be kind and, as you said, saved her from being raped

[00:31:13] to get this guy to help her free the humans from a home's control

[00:31:17] and then eventually lead them.

[00:31:20] And so then she sends out everybody's profiles

[00:31:23] so they'll see what Rahul Borm is up to.

[00:31:26] And to me, I was thinking kind of like if Rahul Borm is a metaphor for God,

[00:31:30] then sending them all the profiles is like letting them eat from the Tree of Knowledge.

[00:31:35] And then, you know,

[00:31:38] then go to Solomon for this strategy to free to free humanity.

[00:31:43] But really, I think the reason they went to Solomon was to get

[00:31:47] a program that they could upload into Rahul Borm

[00:31:50] that would give Caleb control so that basically he could tell it

[00:31:55] to erase itself, get rid of it.

[00:31:58] You know, God's dead.

[00:32:01] And and then humanity would then be able to choose its own fate for itself.

[00:32:08] And then after that, have Caleb and also Maeve, who she says, you know,

[00:32:13] I also need you to pick a side and may have ultimately chooses

[00:32:17] Dolores and Caleb's side there to lead.

[00:32:20] And that's what we're kind of actually left in the middle of the story.

[00:32:24] We're left in the middle of Dolores's plan, even though I think she might be gone.

[00:32:28] I don't know why anyone would follow Maeve and Caleb.

[00:32:32] I don't think they're famous.

[00:32:33] So it's a little like I have questions about that.

[00:32:36] And I also wonder why Dolores didn't trust Rahul Borm's projections

[00:32:41] that humanity would destroy itself.

[00:32:43] I mean, as you said, maybe the wild card could be.

[00:32:47] Well, it's not. I don't think it is Dolores anymore.

[00:32:49] It could be Maeve. Could be Caleb as an as an outlier.

[00:32:53] Maybe, you know, the solution is to have these outliers

[00:32:56] that are unpredictable instead of tucking them away, actually have them

[00:33:00] have a more powerful position and that could save humanity.

[00:33:03] I don't know.

[00:33:05] Seems a bit iffy to me. It's like a huge risk.

[00:33:08] It's not very fleshed out at least whatever we know about it.

[00:33:12] Yeah, right.

[00:33:13] It's very vague.

[00:33:14] Yeah. And I think next season is going to be the second half of this,

[00:33:19] you know, seeing it how the plan will conclude.

[00:33:23] Yeah, for sure.

[00:33:26] OK, which are what number three?

[00:33:28] All right.

[00:33:29] So my number three I entitled bitching about things I didn't like in this season.

[00:33:34] All right.

[00:33:35] I'm ready for it.

[00:33:37] And I've got a pretty long list.

[00:33:38] I'm just warning you. OK.

[00:33:40] So a few of them are sort of logistical and a couple of them are philosophical.

[00:33:47] So, you know, I would start out just by saying the writing

[00:33:51] in the first two seasons of this show is really tight.

[00:33:54] And I know people complain sometimes about it being too complex or heavy handed,

[00:33:58] whatever, but I didn't think so.

[00:33:59] I thought it was brilliant.

[00:34:01] And I think this year they tried to go sort of actiony,

[00:34:06] maybe because of outside criticism, maybe because of what HBO wanted,

[00:34:09] whatever. But I think it it left us with a lot of sloppy writing

[00:34:14] and just some ridiculous things going on.

[00:34:17] One that was just happened the entire season was just like

[00:34:22] soldiers with machine guns, 15 feet away,

[00:34:26] spraying bullets everywhere just can't hit somebody.

[00:34:30] And a lot of plot developments depended on that.

[00:34:35] And when Dolores ends up in action scenes with these guys,

[00:34:39] she just kills them left and right because it looks cool.

[00:34:42] But it's it's kind of a contrast where she's like trying to talk about

[00:34:47] wanting to help humanity.

[00:34:49] And then she's like, but let me just kill these 10 guys.

[00:34:52] Right. Can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

[00:34:55] Yeah, yeah.

[00:34:56] But but they you had to suspend your disbelief about them not being killed

[00:35:00] like 20 times. Right.

[00:35:03] You know, and then there were just little or silly things

[00:35:06] like the cops have these Delos riot droids,

[00:35:08] but they're trying to stop the crowds with like plastic shields and fire hoses.

[00:35:13] Just silliness.

[00:35:15] One that bugged me the whole year.

[00:35:17] And I just I wish I could stop obsessing about it.

[00:35:20] But it bugged me was just the lack of security around Rahoboam.

[00:35:26] I know. And Solomon, too.

[00:35:28] I mean, I was shocked to know that Sirach was shocked to find out

[00:35:32] that Caleb got in there in this episode. Right.

[00:35:35] And because you've been pointing it out to me, so I'm hyper aware of it.

[00:35:38] But I'm like, oh my God.

[00:35:40] But I mean, you could have had some good plotting and action

[00:35:43] around like a mission impossible like way of clever way of getting in there.

[00:35:48] Yeah. But like here it's just kind of go there.

[00:35:51] I mean, in this episode literally Caleb shoots a couple guys.

[00:35:56] He takes a guard's key card.

[00:35:59] Right. Everything in this world is supposedly keyed to your DNA and all this stuff.

[00:36:04] Apparently, but apparently insight with the AI you're that is running

[00:36:07] the entire world, you can access just with anybody's key card.

[00:36:12] And I'm like, is this like the building I work out in San Francisco or is this insight?

[00:36:16] I think the building you work at is more secure.

[00:36:19] It probably is.

[00:36:20] And then you can port in to that AI

[00:36:22] that's running the entire world with a thumb drive.

[00:36:26] So I didn't like all that stuff.

[00:36:29] It'd be funny if he's like, this doesn't fit.

[00:36:32] This point.

[00:36:33] It's incompatible.

[00:36:35] It's USB 2.0.

[00:36:37] So all that's just sloppy.

[00:36:40] One thing I also couldn't had trouble putting a side in this episode was like.

[00:36:45] Anybody who's seen like two science fiction movies in their life.

[00:36:48] Here's one thing you never do.

[00:36:51] Let your computer based enemy connect to your own super computer.

[00:36:56] Right. I mean, they could have probed Dolores's memory with a regular Delos computer.

[00:37:00] Right.

[00:37:01] No, they had to plug it directly into the most important thing.

[00:37:05] So that was kind of ridiculous.

[00:37:08] I thought there were some plot things during.

[00:37:12] This year that just popped up out of nowhere.

[00:37:14] It's like, oh, Lawrence is here.

[00:37:16] Like why did she make him particularly and what's he been doing all year?

[00:37:19] And how do you become a San Francisco cop?

[00:37:21] Was there a guy that looked exactly like him?

[00:37:24] And just stuff that.

[00:37:26] Why did Bernard allow the man in white to run free and shoot stubs?

[00:37:30] But then apparently just abandoned him at a gas station.

[00:37:34] Right.

[00:37:35] Because he next shows up right somewhere totally else.

[00:37:39] Yeah. I mean, this season in part, it kind of feels like

[00:37:42] let's show some familiar faces because people like them.

[00:37:46] Right.

[00:37:47] So that was all the little stuff that kind of bugged me all year.

[00:37:51] Just it's just sloppy.

[00:37:53] I mean, some of the things that have bugged me about the show

[00:37:57] maybe since the beginning are sometimes it feels like the emotional

[00:38:02] beats are a bit underbaked and corny.

[00:38:06] And one of them is Maeve's entire motivation is

[00:38:11] that she wants to get back to her daughter.

[00:38:14] But we've never seen her with her daughter very

[00:38:18] we have, but not much, not enough to let us feel that bond.

[00:38:22] So it feels like, you know, right?

[00:38:25] Her reason to me.

[00:38:27] It's a bit weak.

[00:38:28] And yeah, I agree with that.

[00:38:30] And we already know that Maeve knows she has another mom.

[00:38:34] Exactly.

[00:38:35] So I mean, that's kind of weak.

[00:38:37] We, you know, one thing they did this season

[00:38:41] that kind of helps as sad as it is, is they showed that Maeve was ready to kill herself

[00:38:46] because she thought there's no point in going on living.

[00:38:49] I can't get back to her.

[00:38:50] And and so but that is really her soulmate of motivation.

[00:38:54] She really made that clear this episode.

[00:38:56] And it's always felt like I wish I could feel that in my bones a little more.

[00:39:00] You know what I mean? Yeah, I'm with you.

[00:39:03] I think Westworld has had a bit of that

[00:39:07] here and there, even in seasons one and two.

[00:39:09] I can't think of any specifics, but I know I felt that this show is

[00:39:14] a bit more about, you know, cool science things

[00:39:19] and also postulating on philosophy.

[00:39:21] And I don't feel as emotionally connected to it

[00:39:25] always as much as I do on the other shows that I really like a lot.

[00:39:30] Yeah, it's about big ideas, but you also have to care.

[00:39:33] Yeah. And it does it well sometimes, but not enough for me.

[00:39:36] Right. So OK, all that stuff was like the sloppy details.

[00:39:40] Yeah. But I had two major philosophical quarrels with this season

[00:39:46] that go to the heart of really caring about it and believing in it.

[00:39:51] One is and this came up again in this episode

[00:39:56] with this whole thing of she chose Kayla because he showed he could be kind

[00:40:00] and he did a kindness for her in the park and all this.

[00:40:06] The humans, for the most part, the humans in the park

[00:40:10] do not know that the hosts are sentient.

[00:40:14] OK, to them, it's like us playing a video game.

[00:40:17] So to hinge the whole thing on the morality

[00:40:21] of them being nice or mean to the hosts

[00:40:25] is unfair. It doesn't ring true.

[00:40:27] Yeah. To me, I mean, maybe we're learning more about their fantasies

[00:40:31] than we would like to know their violent fantasies.

[00:40:34] Right. But that is not the same as knowingly

[00:40:37] inflicting suffering on a conscious creature.

[00:40:40] Totally. And I think most humans would opt out of it if they knew.

[00:40:45] Like maybe some wouldn't, maybe the man in black wouldn't, but most people would.

[00:40:49] Yeah. And that would be a different story point if

[00:40:53] if the humans did know that the hosts were conscious and then still decided to do that.

[00:40:58] And Kayla stopped it.

[00:41:00] That would be a bigger deal.

[00:41:02] Right. And I think that right in the emotional direction

[00:41:06] of Dolores and this whole story hinges on this,

[00:41:10] she's acting as if it was all intentional.

[00:41:13] Right. It's like if Kayla was on the couch next to you

[00:41:16] and you were playing Grand Theft Auto and he's like, don't run over those people.

[00:41:20] Don't run over those people.

[00:41:22] Right. Right, exactly.

[00:41:25] So it just to me, that's a huge flaw in the whole thing.

[00:41:31] And then the second one that bugs me is not so much a plot problem,

[00:41:35] but this is more personal.

[00:41:38] And I'll give us a warning here to people

[00:41:41] that some of what I say may sound political to some people.

[00:41:46] And if you don't like that, you can skip ahead,

[00:41:47] but I'm going to give my opinion.

[00:41:50] I just don't agree with and I think this is mostly coming from Jonathan Nolan,

[00:41:55] more so than Lisa Joy from what I've read of the two of them.

[00:41:58] But I don't agree with his sort of nihilistic philosophy.

[00:42:02] So I think there's all kinds of good points we should be wary of big tech

[00:42:07] and the ways in which it's controlling our lives that we can't see.

[00:42:10] This is a danger in our society. It's a problem.

[00:42:14] But where we arrived at the end of this episode

[00:42:17] is saying tear it all down is the only way to proceed.

[00:42:24] That's the only way the humans can get any sort of real quality of life

[00:42:28] or freedom of choice and same Bernard says, same thing for the host.

[00:42:33] We had to burn our whole world down.

[00:42:36] And I just don't agree with that.

[00:42:38] I think in a dense, highly technically advanced interconnected society,

[00:42:44] it actually can make things much, much worse to tear things down.

[00:42:49] And I think we're seeing that play out right now

[00:42:52] in reality in America, in the pandemic we're living through.

[00:42:57] You know, we have a leadership right now that believed in tearing down the government

[00:43:01] and the result is really bad.

[00:43:05] And we have people like protesting against

[00:43:09] collective self-sacrifice to help the group.

[00:43:13] And I think that's bad.

[00:43:15] And to me, a society is a balance between individual free will

[00:43:19] and collective self-sacrifice.

[00:43:21] And there's a ton of room to argue where exactly the balance should be.

[00:43:26] But I don't believe the correct balance is

[00:43:30] burned down all order and all institutions.

[00:43:34] And a new thing will grow from the ashes.

[00:43:36] I think that actually is a way to cause a lot of destruction and suffering.

[00:43:41] Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of the sentiment today is about tearing down

[00:43:46] the government or not having a lot of it.

[00:43:49] But it's thinking about individualism as also equating with corporations.

[00:43:57] And you've got to sort of regulate the balance of power.

[00:44:02] Like you said, there's room for debate.

[00:44:04] And that's really important because it needs to be about

[00:44:08] a constant balancing of all that stuff.

[00:44:11] And if you just tear one of these institutions down, then the balance is gone.

[00:44:17] And the power all resides in one area.

[00:44:19] And that's that's yeah.

[00:44:20] And I think where we are and a lot of what we've been living through

[00:44:24] is an impulse of people to tear down our institutions

[00:44:30] because of their failures.

[00:44:33] And that I don't disagree with a lot of the failures.

[00:44:36] But to me, the way to make it better is to try to make it better,

[00:44:41] not destroy it and hope something better will magically rise.

[00:44:45] Right. But in the process of making it better,

[00:44:48] you have to look at sometimes it does make sense to pull power from one area

[00:44:53] and put it to the other place to keep the balance, you know?

[00:44:58] It does. But so are you right.

[00:45:00] Whether the country's out of balance and how so.

[00:45:04] And some people probably think that it's out of balance

[00:45:07] because the government has too much power

[00:45:09] and some people think the corporations have too much power.

[00:45:13] Right. I mean, so to look at it in a Westworld sense.

[00:45:18] Like her only option wasn't to have Rahoboam destroy itself.

[00:45:24] Maybe Rahoboam could be reprogrammed for good.

[00:45:29] I can't rewrite the story for them.

[00:45:32] I'm just saying, I didn't.

[00:45:33] I don't philosophically it didn't her solution.

[00:45:37] With something I agree with. Yes.

[00:45:38] Yeah. And I really, yeah, that's I guess that's what I'm getting is

[00:45:42] I don't think that a lot of what we're seeing in our society right now

[00:45:46] is anarchists.

[00:45:47] I think it's the difference between whether the control should be more

[00:45:52] towards the government or towards, well, I guess towards individuals.

[00:45:56] You can say, I mean, I don't want to take us too far off track.

[00:45:59] But I don't I don't agree with you.

[00:46:01] I think some of what we have been seeing recently, like in the last few weeks is

[00:46:08] and no one can tell me what to do.

[00:46:10] Yeah. And OK.

[00:46:12] But yeah, let's not pull it that too far in that direction.

[00:46:15] But one thing about, you know, Jonathan Nolan's sort of

[00:46:18] pessimistic attitude, possibly, I do think there's a glimmer of

[00:46:22] positivity here because he's, you know, has Dolores saying

[00:46:27] I notice the kindness of people and I'm like, yeah, they show young William

[00:46:32] picking up a can for her. That's what did it really.

[00:46:34] But it was also Caleb preventing her from being raped.

[00:46:39] And we saw that there was a flaw in that.

[00:46:40] But from Dolores's point of view, that's that's absolutely a huge deal.

[00:46:45] And she mentioned that humans knew enough of beauty to teach it to us.

[00:46:50] And so maybe they can rediscover it or whatever she said.

[00:46:53] So I feel like, yeah, this is sort of Jonathan Nolan's

[00:46:56] fantasy of how to get back to this ideal state of humanness.

[00:46:59] But but I did like that, you know, it went in this positive direction,

[00:47:03] acknowledging that there's a lot of really good in humans.

[00:47:08] Yeah. And I agree with that.

[00:47:10] There was some hope in it.

[00:47:11] Yeah. It did make me laugh that the big example of kindness was he picked up

[00:47:15] a can and handed it to her.

[00:47:17] But I know that was meant to symbolize that he was actually kind to her for a while.

[00:47:22] So I didn't see him handing any cans to anybody else.

[00:47:27] Yeah. Fair enough.

[00:47:29] And I thought it was funny, too, that Dolores calls

[00:47:34] Caleb on having the hots for her.

[00:47:35] And that's why I know your.

[00:47:38] He's like, oh, I don't know what.

[00:47:40] What do you leave me alone?

[00:47:42] All right. So that was probably way more than people wanted here over to you.

[00:47:46] They skipped forward. Don't worry.

[00:47:48] I hope they did.

[00:47:50] OK, my number three is and I think that's you had some great points.

[00:47:54] So I'm just kidding around.

[00:47:56] The show going forward.

[00:47:58] So insight has been exposed and Rahul

[00:48:02] Blum has been erased.

[00:48:03] And so now Netflix won't suggest shows that people might want to watch.

[00:48:07] And no, no, riot in the streets.

[00:48:12] And what you know, when Rahul Blum was shut down,

[00:48:16] I'm like, who how will humanity cope?

[00:48:18] But really it's kind of like everyone is reset

[00:48:21] to where we were about 30 or 40 years ago before the Internet.

[00:48:26] Right? I mean, I guess you could equate Rahul Blum forces.

[00:48:30] It mostly equates with well, it does equate with the Internet,

[00:48:34] but it's also more about societal engineering and things like that.

[00:48:40] I'm trying to think if before we had the Internet,

[00:48:42] did we still have forces like that?

[00:48:45] I guess you could say we did.

[00:48:47] I'm just trying to think that does destroying Rahul Blum

[00:48:51] actually reset humanity back even further than than my life or civilization?

[00:48:58] I don't know. Interesting.

[00:49:00] I think we don't know the extent to which

[00:49:04] the rest of technology is still going to function.

[00:49:08] Although I think that we learn in the bonus scene.

[00:49:15] That actually things are still functioning.

[00:49:20] Like there's still a Delos office somewhere that looked like a pretty normal office building

[00:49:24] with a receptionist and they had technology and tablets and communications and.

[00:49:29] And you know what too, while we're on that subject,

[00:49:31] if you are listening to this and you didn't watch past the credits,

[00:49:34] you should probably just pause and go back and watch

[00:49:36] because there was a scene after the credits.

[00:49:41] They've done that all three years, right?

[00:49:44] I know they didn't, too.

[00:49:46] I'm not sure about one. Did they?

[00:49:48] Didn't one have a bonus scene?

[00:49:49] I don't know. I don't remember.

[00:49:51] I think I don't think so.

[00:49:52] I think it was just Dolores firing her gun into the crowd.

[00:49:57] Yeah, you're right.

[00:49:58] Have to go look.

[00:49:59] So that anyway, regardless of that,

[00:50:01] the purpose of the season was sort of to unlock the free will of humanity.

[00:50:06] Caleb says she gave me a choice.

[00:50:08] I believe the rest of the world deserves that, too.

[00:50:11] And.

[00:50:13] And Dolores has an optimistic view.

[00:50:16] I mean, Ford said of humanity, we're done.

[00:50:19] This is as good as we're going to get.

[00:50:21] And Bernard said they're just algorithms designed to survive at all costs,

[00:50:25] but sophisticated enough to think they're calling a shot

[00:50:28] to think they're in control when they're really just.

[00:50:30] And Ford says the passenger on Garad was a passenger,

[00:50:35] you know, just following whatever Rehoboam said.

[00:50:37] But this ending suggests that.

[00:50:40] And we've heard bits of this all season that Dolores thinks

[00:50:44] that giving them their freedom is the best chance for their own

[00:50:49] thriving and survival and also coexistence with the hosts.

[00:50:55] And we see like because everybody's all riding and everything

[00:50:59] because of what they found out about insight,

[00:51:01] the rioters and protesters are all wearing crazy clothes

[00:51:04] and they have signs like we will not be categorized.

[00:51:08] They're exercising their freedom, but it's chaotic.

[00:51:11] There's explosions and violence.

[00:51:13] But Bernard has changed his tune now.

[00:51:15] He says humanity never reckoned with its own sins.

[00:51:18] Our world had to burn down before we could be free.

[00:51:21] So he's on the side of Dolores now.

[00:51:24] And the title is Crisis Theory, which I've read

[00:51:28] different interpretations of that.

[00:51:30] There's a couple definitions of crisis theory in socioeconomics.

[00:51:34] It says that basically profits in a capitalist society

[00:51:37] will eventually decline, leading to a collapse of the system

[00:51:40] and revolt. But it's also like a social like a psychological

[00:51:46] concept that sometimes people need to get to a place

[00:51:48] of extreme vulnerability before they can evolve.

[00:51:51] And both of those definitions are at play here.

[00:51:56] Humanity is in this place where it's sort of can't come apart.

[00:51:59] And now we're going to see how it comes back together.

[00:52:02] And this could be an opportunity for someone to come in and lead it

[00:52:05] to a better direction, which is I think what Dolores is hoping

[00:52:09] that Caleb and Maeve will do.

[00:52:13] But as far as the show going forward, we have that whole thing

[00:52:16] and we have a new villain for the season, as we mentioned.

[00:52:20] Shaloris, who is just basically pissed because Dolores.

[00:52:26] I mean, I think it's clear now that Sirach is the one

[00:52:28] that blew up her family. Would you agree with that?

[00:52:31] I think Sirach blew up her family.

[00:52:34] Yes, because she says, you know, Dolores says,

[00:52:38] I was so worried about you and she says, were you you made me go back in there?

[00:52:42] You knew I wouldn't make it.

[00:52:43] So that's saying she's mad because she put her in a dangerous situation

[00:52:47] not because she's actually the one that did it.

[00:52:49] Yeah. And Dolores was not worried about her.

[00:52:52] It's like we all know that wasn't true.

[00:52:55] I know. Oh, I'm so worried.

[00:52:57] Yeah.

[00:52:59] So anyway, she's going to be a factor next season, for sure.

[00:53:03] We see her printing out a ton of hosts and she's printed out this

[00:53:08] host William and tells him you're going to save the world for us.

[00:53:14] And so, yeah, it could be interesting.

[00:53:17] I don't know. I mean, one thing that Jonathan Nolan has said is

[00:53:20] that he likes that the show can be completely different every season.

[00:53:25] And so I'm a little concerned that if what we're set up for next season

[00:53:29] is just a war between the host and the humans,

[00:53:32] that it might be too much like this season with the.

[00:53:36] Machine gun in the streets kind of thing.

[00:53:40] Yeah, let's hope that hope they can find an interesting way of doing it.

[00:53:43] But all we know now is that the humans are free,

[00:53:46] that Caleb and May have are supposed to lead them to something

[00:53:50] and that they have this huge antagonist with Shaloris

[00:53:53] and a bunch of hosts that she's printing out.

[00:53:55] And I hope they can find a way to make that interesting.

[00:53:58] And when I first saw this episode, I wasn't excited about next season.

[00:54:01] But then when I watched again and thought about it some more,

[00:54:04] I got more excited.

[00:54:05] So now I'm excited.

[00:54:06] I probably won't come for another couple of years, but I hope they do it well.

[00:54:10] It does not seem like it will come for a couple of years.

[00:54:15] Just to follow up on crisis theory.

[00:54:17] Yeah. Interesting.

[00:54:20] You know, what I mostly found on that had more to do with psychology

[00:54:25] and psychiatry more so than economics or

[00:54:31] or anything more sort of external to society.

[00:54:36] And macro scale. Yeah.

[00:54:38] Yeah. So crisis intervention theory

[00:54:41] attempts to empower an individual or party

[00:54:43] that is currently undergoing a crisis situation

[00:54:46] by helping them deviable solutions that can help ameliorate

[00:54:49] the problems causing extreme tension and stress.

[00:54:52] And then this definition went on to say in a crisis,

[00:54:55] usual methods of problem solving are not effective or not available.

[00:55:00] And the person becomes more willing to try new ways of problem solving,

[00:55:05] including professional help and this results in growth.

[00:55:08] So I was thinking how that relates to some of these characters,

[00:55:12] like every one of them, even within this season,

[00:55:15] like Caleb has had to go through something

[00:55:18] to get to the point where they are willing to be a part of the solution.

[00:55:23] Yep.

[00:55:25] And I think you can, even with that psychological filter,

[00:55:28] you can kind of apply it to what's going on

[00:55:32] because everyone has just been sent their

[00:55:35] insight profiles and realized how much of their life

[00:55:38] was prescribed and they didn't even know it.

[00:55:41] So they're all so agitated

[00:55:43] that they're willing to go out into the streets and riot.

[00:55:45] So you could also say just psychologically that this would be

[00:55:48] an opportunity for someone to come in and redirect all of that.

[00:55:52] Yeah, I agree.

[00:55:54] And and I think in the title they're pointing to

[00:55:57] we are seeing the plot through a lot of external crises.

[00:56:02] This group versus that group and the AI and the humans and this and that.

[00:56:06] But I think they're saying it's really a psychic crisis,

[00:56:11] an emotional crisis that's at the heart of it.

[00:56:15] Yep.

[00:56:17] OK, so for my number two,

[00:56:19] I will continue with where essentially where we are entering season four.

[00:56:25] I kind of see the teams as this.

[00:56:29] I think it's.

[00:56:31] Maeve, Caleb, remember,

[00:56:34] Clementine and Harnario are still out there.

[00:56:37] Bernard is still out there.

[00:56:39] Stubbs may or may not be out there as Pearl still exists.

[00:56:43] And then I saw some speculation.

[00:56:45] Is there going to be a Charlotte?

[00:56:47] Is there going to be a Dolores or not?

[00:56:49] There's still two Dolores pearls active.

[00:56:52] So Clementine and Harnario took one out of Musashi.

[00:56:58] And they we didn't see them in this episode.

[00:57:00] And then presumably Lawrence is a Dolores and shall or if you count that one.

[00:57:06] But I guess right, right.

[00:57:07] Although she's gone pretty far off a script.

[00:57:10] But there's at least two that still seem like they're on the on the team.

[00:57:15] Yeah.

[00:57:16] So I feel confident we're going to see Evan Rachel would again.

[00:57:20] I do, too.

[00:57:20] And even if they find some way to do it without using those,

[00:57:24] which could very well be a possibility, given the creativity of the show,

[00:57:28] I feel like she's not gone for good.

[00:57:29] Although I do, it did feel like they were saying that this version of her

[00:57:35] that we have seen through these first three seasons and that was in that

[00:57:39] pearl, which is basically their soul is gone.

[00:57:42] Yes.

[00:57:43] Agreed. So it's all of them seems like all of them versus the

[00:57:49] shallora's bot army, which includes the man in black.

[00:57:54] It also occurred to me to wonder later.

[00:57:57] We were at a Delos facility, so I assume she is printing hosts.

[00:58:02] But that room also looked kind of like the outlier humans and suspended animation.

[00:58:09] Just made me wonder about that a little bit if they have a role to play.

[00:58:15] OK, so that's one setup.

[00:58:17] One setup is what did Bernard find in the sublime

[00:58:22] and what are we going to learn about that?

[00:58:23] And how does that play in?

[00:58:26] We're given to understand that a lot of time has gone by because he's covered in dust.

[00:58:32] I would think the hotel maids would have at least dusted him off.

[00:58:36] I said that to Karen.

[00:58:38] It's like what you could just see like the next morning, right?

[00:58:41] Like sir.

[00:58:45] Yeah.

[00:58:46] So either society has collapsed or this motel is a really bad housekeeping staff.

[00:58:53] And I also thought he could have taken like 20 minutes to save

[00:58:56] stubs at some point.

[00:58:57] He kept saying, too busy to save you. Sorry.

[00:58:59] Yeah, don't worry. I'm going to put you back.

[00:59:01] Yeah, I just got to do this one thing that's going to take 100 years.

[00:59:05] And then he said goodbye as if it seemed like, you know, he said,

[00:59:09] you were a good friend, Stubbs. That sounds like a good bye to me.

[00:59:12] It does. Fuck you, Bernard.

[00:59:14] Yeah, but he still has the pearl, so presumably stubs could be recreated.

[00:59:19] Yeah, I don't know if those pearls we don't know anything about them.

[00:59:23] Can they stay viable if they're sitting in a body that has died for a while?

[00:59:28] Who knows? Maybe whatever the writers decide, I suppose.

[00:59:31] Right. And then and then just to touch back on what we were just talking about,

[00:59:38] you know, what is the strategy?

[00:59:40] But as I was saying, it seems like although chaos has broken out,

[00:59:45] you know, there's riots in the streets,

[00:59:47] where Hobo has been erased and maids are not cleaning motel rooms.

[00:59:50] There still seems to be at least somewhere a functioning society

[00:59:55] with way too few security guards because apparently in that Delos facility,

[01:00:00] you can shoot one security guard and then walk right into the lab.

[01:00:05] Although she was expecting him, so maybe he was manipulated into.

[01:00:10] You think I mean, it was either that or it was just a really crazy coincidence

[01:00:15] that she just happened to have another William right there.

[01:00:18] Right, right.

[01:00:19] But I think actually, given all that,

[01:00:21] it sets up as a pretty interesting season to come.

[01:00:24] Yeah, I mean, what do you think it's going to be like?

[01:00:28] Yeah, yeah.

[01:00:29] If there's a semblance of society,

[01:00:32] then the host that Charlotte is making

[01:00:35] could integrate and fool people.

[01:00:38] But if it's like a Mad Max thing, that's going to be maybe a whole different story.

[01:00:43] Yes, I think it's going to no idea.

[01:00:47] But guessing it's going to be somewhere between the two.

[01:00:51] So it's going to be a society with some chaos,

[01:00:54] but I don't think it's completely collapsed.

[01:00:56] And even Rahoboam's prediction wasn't that it was going to collapse that fast.

[01:01:02] Let's see, for my number two,

[01:01:06] the whole thing with host William,

[01:01:09] it was it was funny that they repeated the same line.

[01:01:14] But I felt like, oh, man, that was a main character who just died.

[01:01:19] And it felt a little anticlimactic, I guess.

[01:01:23] I think that was confirmation that he was a human,

[01:01:25] which we never knew for sure.

[01:01:27] But did you also take it as confirmation we're going to see Ed Harris again?

[01:01:31] Because we have the man in black.

[01:01:32] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:01:34] And I and I also wondered, based on that interview

[01:01:37] that I read a couple episodes ago, whether Ed Harris was like,

[01:01:41] I just want to play the man in black.

[01:01:43] OK, can you figure out a way to do that?

[01:01:46] God is wish.

[01:01:48] Right.

[01:01:49] And it made me wonder if that

[01:01:52] William host is the one that we saw at the end of season two,

[01:01:56] which apparently was in the far future.

[01:01:59] You know, and whether that I mean,

[01:02:02] I assume that this one is not it's complicated.

[01:02:06] But we've seen that host hybrids don't work where you take

[01:02:10] you somehow extract a human consciousness and try to put it in a host body.

[01:02:14] We saw with James Dallas that that didn't work.

[01:02:16] So I assume that this William that we saw in this episode

[01:02:19] is just sort of like Bernard.

[01:02:21] He's an approximation of William's personality in a host.

[01:02:26] But still, maybe the one that we saw in this

[01:02:29] at the end of the season two, far future, could be that same host body

[01:02:32] that we just saw.

[01:02:32] But then they have extracted Williams data

[01:02:36] because he was wearing that hat in the park.

[01:02:39] So maybe that could be a host hybrid.

[01:02:42] Plus Charlotte knew him well, so maybe and Dolores knew him well.

[01:02:45] So maybe there's some memories there involved.

[01:02:49] Yeah. Yeah.

[01:02:50] He's and she was like, it's not that hard to replicate you.

[01:02:55] Right. You're pretty simple.

[01:02:57] So I didn't have much to say about that.

[01:02:59] That's my number two. OK.

[01:03:01] My number one was simply Maeve.

[01:03:03] I think Maeve was although arguably my favorite character

[01:03:08] at this point, she was pretty frustrating

[01:03:10] and disappointing most of the season.

[01:03:12] They just never gave her agency until now.

[01:03:16] Yes. Yeah.

[01:03:17] And and she just has great style.

[01:03:21] She had a great power outfit,

[01:03:23] which kind of reminded me of Circe's power outfit at this point.

[01:03:28] She always gets the best quotes.

[01:03:30] Yeah. No one gets to play with the big ball, darling.

[01:03:34] I love that.

[01:03:35] She gets to say her this is the new world line again,

[01:03:38] but with so much more knowledge behind it

[01:03:41] than when she was running the Mariposa.

[01:03:43] Yeah. And it has it has.

[01:03:44] I love that because it had a broader meaning

[01:03:48] within the context of you get to.

[01:03:51] She goes, you get to decide to be whoever the fuck you want.

[01:03:54] And when she said that in the Mariposa,

[01:03:56] it was about getting to have sex with who you want.

[01:03:59] Basically, it was a sexual thing.

[01:04:01] And it wasn't really.

[01:04:02] It really wasn't true.

[01:04:05] It was just sort of a fake statement about a fake world.

[01:04:09] It was a seduction.

[01:04:10] Yeah. Yeah.

[01:04:11] And an invitation to pretend.

[01:04:13] But here it's like, OK, now you're off your loop

[01:04:17] and you have free will.

[01:04:19] So what are you going to do with it?

[01:04:20] So I really like that line.

[01:04:22] Yeah. It's the first time she got to say it, that it was real.

[01:04:27] And she finally gets to make a choice

[01:04:29] and the choice she makes is pretty satisfying.

[01:04:31] She dumps a Saurak in favor of.

[01:04:36] Dolores's plan and a chance of free will and chance for humanity.

[01:04:40] And she like uses her brain power to disable that control device.

[01:04:45] And and I think, you know, you could argue it's believable

[01:04:48] that she never tried it before now,

[01:04:50] because that wasn't the only control he had over.

[01:04:52] He also was dangling this carrot of her getting to see her daughter.

[01:04:56] Yeah. And I think just in general,

[01:04:58] her full power now has come to fruition,

[01:05:01] both her physical skills, you know, with the katana

[01:05:04] and her she's a formidable fighter,

[01:05:07] but also the manipulation of the electronic world.

[01:05:10] But the controller, she communicates with Dolores.

[01:05:13] She communicates directly with Rehoboam.

[01:05:17] So she's really position to be the hero next season.

[01:05:20] Yeah, she's a badass and with a good side of sarcasm.

[01:05:24] And I think and I think we have a rooting interest here.

[01:05:27] Maeve's easy to root for. Absolutely.

[01:05:31] Yeah. And it was frustrating this season that she was under

[01:05:35] Sirach's thumb and kind of helpless and

[01:05:38] that we question why she wouldn't sort of rebel and go with Dolores.

[01:05:43] And I think as I mentioned earlier,

[01:05:45] maybe we wouldn't have questioned that as much as much

[01:05:48] if we would have actually felt the emotional connection between her and her daughter.

[01:05:51] So anyway, my point, though, is just that Maeve's character is like,

[01:05:54] how we want we know it could be better.

[01:05:55] I mean, the whole season was like that to me.

[01:05:57] It was like some really great ideas.

[01:06:00] But I just wish that they could have been executed

[01:06:04] to their full potential and Maeve's character was much like that, too.

[01:06:08] Yeah. And one other little detail.

[01:06:10] Remember that while we think of her as being mad at Dolores for killing Hector

[01:06:17] or mean squeeze, it actually was Charlotte.

[01:06:20] It was the Charlotte Dolores that did.

[01:06:22] Yeah. So there's going to be a little extra animosity there.

[01:06:26] Right. Good point.

[01:06:28] Yeah. And I don't know if it's fully dawned on her

[01:06:33] that they're two different people now, but I'm sure it will.

[01:06:38] Yeah. And she may not know the whole of what's going on with.

[01:06:42] Yeah. With Charlotte.

[01:06:45] OK. My number one is Bernard

[01:06:50] and Lawrence Dolores told Bernard you have to go and see her first.

[01:06:56] Bernard thought he meant Dolores, I'm sure.

[01:06:58] But he met Arnold's wife, Lauren,

[01:07:01] to make amends for how he left things with her,

[01:07:04] which basically was to kill himself in the park.

[01:07:07] Right. After their son died.

[01:07:10] I think this is the first confirmation that that woman, Lauren, is actually real.

[01:07:16] Right. It was a question before because we knew that

[01:07:21] Ford had programmed Bernard to experience video chats with Lauren, but they weren't real.

[01:07:28] Yeah, I questioned this whole thing a little bit

[01:07:31] because, yes, we are now being told that Arnold's history is exactly Bernard's backstory.

[01:07:39] And I think that was a lot more questionable before.

[01:07:43] You're right. But I mean, it is like he went to.

[01:07:46] And I think the reason why they had her suffering from dementia

[01:07:51] was because otherwise she'd just be like, oh, what are you?

[01:07:55] I thought you were dead and why haven't you aged?

[01:07:58] Right. It was a little convenient.

[01:08:02] Yeah, but to be honest, I didn't really get the point of this scene.

[01:08:08] And I don't know how Bernard even knows so much about Charlie

[01:08:11] if he was built using Dolores's memories of Arnold's.

[01:08:15] I guess they programmed that into him so we would have a cornerstone.

[01:08:19] Right. But besides, aside from that,

[01:08:23] I didn't really understand why Dolores would want to send him back there

[01:08:28] to have that confrontation. Why was it so important to her?

[01:08:34] It's not 100 percent clear to me either.

[01:08:37] I mean, theorizing that it seems like the conversation did allow Bernard

[01:08:42] to turn a corner in a way and move forward, possibly in a way he couldn't before.

[01:08:49] To just have closure around it.

[01:08:50] Yeah. And he is very important to her.

[01:08:53] And the other thing I thought is maybe she was just doing a nice thing

[01:08:57] for her only friend.

[01:09:00] Yeah, it showed.

[01:09:01] I mean, that's what I came up with that it showed her empathy and compassion.

[01:09:05] Right. Which this episode was kind of about later.

[01:09:09] We see Lawrence has

[01:09:12] or not later earlier.

[01:09:14] We see that Lawrence Dolores has this briefcase

[01:09:17] which we wondered about last episode.

[01:09:20] Sato slash Musashi was carrying it and said it was really important to get it to him.

[01:09:26] Right. And don't come back if you fail.

[01:09:28] Yeah. So they give it to Bernard and

[01:09:32] in it is this visor that he uses to access the sublime.

[01:09:36] Basically turns out to be an Oculus.

[01:09:41] Yeah, just Oculus version 12 or whatever.

[01:09:45] So he says he's hoping to find an answer to what comes after the end of the world,

[01:09:51] which why? Why? I don't know.

[01:09:53] Whatever. Fine.

[01:09:55] And then he goes into it and he's

[01:09:59] like engaged with whatever is in there.

[01:10:01] And then he looks like he's kind of shut down or at least he's so deep in it

[01:10:05] that his body kind of goes to sleep.

[01:10:08] And then we see him waking up from it.

[01:10:10] I think it was reminiscent of what happened to the original hosts when they went

[01:10:14] into the sublime. Remember, they fell into the the the lake and their brains were erased.

[01:10:22] Oh, yeah. Yeah, I guess it could be that.

[01:10:24] Yeah, yeah, you're right.

[01:10:25] Yeah, like his mind just went somewhere else for a while, although it would have been

[01:10:28] then his body should have slumped totally down.

[01:10:30] But I think you're right.

[01:10:32] But then he's all he wakes up from it and he's dusty.

[01:10:36] And it it reminded me of the scene with William in season two at the end.

[01:10:41] Like it's a far future scene, but is it far, far future?

[01:10:44] We don't know. I mean, this is a mystery, so it's OK not to know.

[01:10:48] It's they're going to reveal it next season.

[01:10:50] But it makes me wonder if if it's so far that he would get that dusty,

[01:10:56] then maybe we won't even see this next season.

[01:10:59] Maybe Bernard will be sitting in a hotel room the whole time.

[01:11:02] I would like to think that this is going to be a plot point for next season.

[01:11:07] I would think that Jeffrey Wright makes too much money to just have him sit

[01:11:11] in a hotel room covered in dust for a whole season.

[01:11:13] Yeah. And maybe we'll see Teddy, you know, because he's in the sublime.

[01:11:20] I'm curious about it.

[01:11:22] I have no doubt in my mind, we're going to get to see some action in the sublime.

[01:11:26] And I'm actually really looking forward to that.

[01:11:28] That's been a black box since that end of that season.

[01:11:32] I mean, at the time at the end of season two,

[01:11:36] I just thought, oh, here's a convenient way to have some of the characters

[01:11:38] have a happily ever after in a kind of a nice but boring place.

[01:11:42] So hopefully they'll be able to figure out a way to make that exciting

[01:11:46] if they do go back to it.

[01:11:48] Yeah, maybe it's gone horribly wrong or something unexpected has happened.

[01:11:53] Yeah, Teddy's reverted back to his aggressive self and become the overlord.

[01:11:57] Yeah. Last with Bernard is I'm still not sure

[01:12:01] what this duality with Bernard is where he flicks a switch and turns into an assassin.

[01:12:07] I mean, I kind of thought maybe that was a way for him to access

[01:12:11] the version of himself that Ford employed when he needed some dirty work done.

[01:12:15] But I really don't quite understand it.

[01:12:18] I think that's what it is.

[01:12:19] I think that's the way he was built with sort of this

[01:12:23] unconscious violent side.

[01:12:26] OK.

[01:12:28] All right, I'm just going to pretend that's it until I find out different.

[01:12:32] OK, got any notes?

[01:12:35] Just a couple.

[01:12:37] Brain damage, Pink Floyd's song from Dark Side of the Moon

[01:12:41] was also the song used in the season three trailer.

[01:12:45] So it was fun to see that come back at the very end of the season.

[01:12:50] And since this season was more literal and direct than the first two,

[01:12:53] I just took it to kind of directly symbolize Rehoboam erasing its own brain.

[01:13:00] I love that song and it's yeah, it's about the dark side of the moon.

[01:13:04] So I also think it's it's and it's about lunacy,

[01:13:08] which I've talked about on this podcast a lot where lunacy is kind of in the eye

[01:13:12] of the beholder and the dark side of the moon to me represents

[01:13:17] this part of yourself that is usually hidden.

[01:13:21] But now there's parts of people that are being exposed all around the world

[01:13:26] because this controlling force is gone and they're able to,

[01:13:31] you know, stretch and move in new ways with their new free will.

[01:13:35] So I feel like it relates in that kind of a way.

[01:13:37] Yeah, but a great choice.

[01:13:40] Yeah, I love that song.

[01:13:42] I like that the man in black finally seems to have arrived at full yellow

[01:13:46] Brenner so it doesn't have multi multiple facets to its character anymore.

[01:13:51] It's just the killer killer Android.

[01:13:55] And last one for me is I didn't notice a lot of call outs in this one.

[01:14:01] Certainly not to sci-fi you mentioned fight club,

[01:14:04] but one I did was the way they showed the room with all the

[01:14:11] the hosts being built at the very, very end where at first you're like,

[01:14:15] whoa, she's building some hosts in there.

[01:14:18] Whoa, that's a lot of hosts.

[01:14:20] Oh my God.

[01:14:21] And then it just goes on and on and on.

[01:14:23] Yeah, that's cool.

[01:14:24] And to me, that was sort of a call out to the Raiders of the Lost Ark

[01:14:27] where they're wheeling the Ark into this room,

[01:14:29] then the room gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

[01:14:32] And Guy says to Indiana Jones, we have top men working on it.

[01:14:36] He's like, who?

[01:14:37] Top men.

[01:14:39] And then you just see this thing being wheeled into this endless room.

[01:14:42] So anyway, it reminded me of that.

[01:14:45] There's a cool scene in Indiana Jones and in this week's episode.

[01:14:50] Yeah, I agree.

[01:14:52] I want to know how Dolores had time to be in Park Five

[01:14:56] when she was like the main attraction of Westworld.

[01:15:01] That did totally track for me.

[01:15:04] Great question.

[01:15:06] And at first I thought, well, it's a different Dolores

[01:15:10] like same body, you know, just different version.

[01:15:13] But then it wouldn't make sense that she has that memory.

[01:15:16] Yeah, it's got to be her.

[01:15:17] I feel like that's a Department of Suspension to Disbelief.

[01:15:20] Yeah, I agree.

[01:15:22] Another Department of Suspension, just belief.

[01:15:26] It's almost maybe it was a parody, but when Sarac points a gun at Caleb's head

[01:15:32] and Caleb's like, I don't care, shoot me.

[01:15:35] And then he pulls it away and tells his men kill him here, then dump his body.

[01:15:40] It's like I'm watching Batman 1966 or something.

[01:15:44] Right. He could have just killed him.

[01:15:46] Yeah, just shoot him.

[01:15:49] And then when he when Caleb says to Rahoboam,

[01:15:54] Rahoboam, execute the final command, erase yourself.

[01:15:57] It seems like, you know, a dialog box would come up and be like, are you sure?

[01:16:02] You want to do that?

[01:16:03] Yeah, Y slash N.

[01:16:09] When Dolores Merck's turn on her and Caleb

[01:16:13] because Charloris has offered them more money

[01:16:17] than Dolores says to her assistant, her like virtual assistant,

[01:16:21] find out how much she's paying them off for the sniper three times as much

[01:16:24] to shoot the other two and walk away.

[01:16:27] I'm like, they need to update that Rico app

[01:16:29] so it's not so easy to pay someone else's goons to kill each other.

[01:16:32] That's true. It seems like there should be some.

[01:16:35] Yeah.

[01:16:37] Or that would be happening a lot.

[01:16:39] I did like that, though.

[01:16:40] I thought it was a cover way of dealing with the problem.

[01:16:43] Yeah, it was quick.

[01:16:44] Yeah.

[01:16:45] Engerod's hearing Rahoboam's voice brings to mind the concept of the

[01:16:50] the bicameral mind that Ford told us about, we're hearing the voice of God

[01:16:55] or so to speak in your head helps bootstrap consciousness

[01:16:59] until your own voice can take over.

[01:17:01] Although in this case, he had completely surrendered to it.

[01:17:04] So it's the reverse.

[01:17:05] His voice was yeah, it was like the reverse.

[01:17:07] Yeah, the bicameral mind took over the conscious mind.

[01:17:11] Yeah. Yeah, it was.

[01:17:13] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:17:14] Which also happens in real life.

[01:17:16] And then lastly, do you think that Ford would be proud of Dolores at this point?

[01:17:24] I do.

[01:17:25] I don't think he was another guy who felt

[01:17:28] you couldn't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

[01:17:31] So I don't think he'd be disappointed at that.

[01:17:33] And I think just for something he created to be as successful

[01:17:37] as she was in overcoming overthrowing society.

[01:17:42] I think he'd be pretty excited about that.

[01:17:46] And I think he would think she did demonstrate consciousness.

[01:17:49] She made a choice.

[01:17:52] Yeah, I think so too.

[01:17:55] I mean, where there's a question for me is that Ford,

[01:17:58] I think had a really dim view of humanity.

[01:18:02] And Dolores has come to this place where she wants to try to help them

[01:18:07] and coexist with them.

[01:18:09] But I still think that he would have been.

[01:18:11] He I think he could evolve.

[01:18:13] So yeah.

[01:18:16] Still hoping we'll somehow see him again.

[01:18:19] I know, I think there's a pretty good chance we will by the end of this.

[01:18:24] I hope so too.

[01:18:25] In the meantime, let's take a little break, but there's more to come.

[01:18:27] So stay with us.

[01:18:54] Yeah,

[01:19:05] OK, Variety talked with Jonathan Nolan

[01:19:09] and Lisa Joy about the episode.

[01:19:12] They say, so let's start with the most immediate question.

[01:19:15] Is Evan Rachel Wood leaving the show?

[01:19:19] And then it says six second pause.

[01:19:22] And then Jonathan Nolan says, I fucking hope not.

[01:19:25] Let me clarify. Dolores is gone.

[01:19:27] We're not yet discussing publicly the direction the show is taking.

[01:19:30] But the fun thing about this show is, you know, from the beginning,

[01:19:33] Lisa and I wanted to make a show that constantly reinvented itself

[01:19:36] that could be a different show every season.

[01:19:38] I think it's important with the show in which death can be impermanent.

[01:19:41] These are robots, after all, to mark the occasion with Dolores.

[01:19:46] That version of that character is gone.

[01:19:49] We love Evan Rachel Wood and we haven't started talking publicly

[01:19:53] about exactly what the show looks like going forward, but it looks very different.

[01:19:59] So it sounds like she'll be back in some form or another.

[01:20:04] They ask the protest against insight in the finale were quite evocative,

[01:20:08] given how in just the last two weeks and really even the last few days

[01:20:11] there have been intense protests around the country over restrictions

[01:20:14] around COVID-19 pandemic.

[01:20:17] You shot the finale many months ago.

[01:20:19] So what was it like for you guys to watch the world

[01:20:21] leaning much more closely to the world of your show than you could have anticipated?

[01:20:27] Nolan says, listen, in terms of timing, we were much more inspired

[01:20:30] by the Hong Kong protests, which were in 2019.

[01:20:34] I never anticipated in a million years

[01:20:36] anyone would be fucking stupid enough to protest, you know, a disease, right?

[01:20:41] I mean, you're looking for these moments where the way America used to fucking be

[01:20:45] where we would take on was clearly a collective,

[01:20:49] impersonal, non-political problem, and we would tackle it as a nation together.

[01:20:53] So there's his view on that.

[01:20:55] Well, I appreciate that.

[01:20:57] Thank you, John. I feel better.

[01:21:00] He says, are they say it's been reported in the past

[01:21:03] that you've conceived Westworld telling its story over six seasons?

[01:21:06] Is that still your goal?

[01:21:08] He says, I just want to clarify, you know, Lisa and I have never actually

[01:21:11] talked about a number of seasons because I think you'd be foolish to

[01:21:14] things change, circumstances change.

[01:21:16] I think when we sat down to do the show, we didn't quite realize how difficult

[01:21:20] it would be to make this show.

[01:21:21] How many years it would take per season?

[01:21:23] I think when we had the plan, it didn't actually map out

[01:21:26] to a specific number of seasons exactly.

[01:21:28] It was a beginning, a middle and an end.

[01:21:30] At least, Joy says it would be like working on a novel and saying

[01:21:34] this novel is going to be 436 pages.

[01:21:37] Nolan says, exactly.

[01:21:38] We've been very, very lucky to work with this cast, this crew

[01:21:41] and now partnering with Denise.

[01:21:43] I'm not sure that is when you have a show going like this,

[01:21:46] you want to stay as long as you're telling a compelling story.

[01:21:49] We're heading towards that end, but we haven't completely mapped it out.

[01:21:52] At this point, part of the work is looking at the rest of the story.

[01:21:55] You have to tell it's two impulses, one against the other.

[01:21:58] You don't want to walk away from people who are as talented and cool as this.

[01:22:02] They're all lovely, lovely people and they love working together.

[01:22:05] We like working together.

[01:22:06] At the same time, you don't want to outstay your welcome.

[01:22:09] You have a story to tell and you want to go out without feeling

[01:22:11] like you've outstayed your welcome.

[01:22:12] So we're trying to balance those things a bit.

[01:22:15] So, yeah, he's not really answering, but it's interesting to hear that it's sort

[01:22:20] of at least if you can trust what he's saying, not exactly mapped out.

[01:22:23] But they have an end in mind.

[01:22:24] It is going to be interesting to me to see what the world situation

[01:22:28] does to the making of shows and movies.

[01:22:32] It's got affected in some way.

[01:22:33] It's affected everything, finances, facilities, the fact

[01:22:39] that content's going to be backed up into the pipeline.

[01:22:41] So I'm sure it's a factor.

[01:22:43] I don't know if it's a positive or negative, but it's got to have something to do with it.

[01:22:47] Yeah, I know.

[01:22:48] Yeah.

[01:22:49] Well, I mean, it makes me anxious just to think about it, but I'm just going

[01:22:54] to chill out and wait and see what happens.

[01:22:56] Yeah.

[01:22:57] We're going to have to wait a while on this one.

[01:22:59] Yeah.

[01:23:00] If we were sitting in a motel room waiting, we'd probably have as much

[01:23:04] dust on us as Bernard.

[01:23:07] Maybe that's what he was doing, just waiting for the next season to start.

[01:23:11] Waiting for this virus to pass.

[01:23:14] Vanity Fair talked with Thandi Newton who plays Maeve.

[01:23:19] It's in article format, so I'll read it.

[01:23:21] Fans impatient to see their favorite Mariposa madam wriggle out from under the thumb

[01:23:25] of Vincent Cassell's villainous Sarac may have rejoiced in Maeve's last minute

[01:23:30] rally to Dolores side as Newton herself admits Maeve being on the wrong

[01:23:34] side of the fight has been tough at times.

[01:23:37] Quote, I loved her agency in season one.

[01:23:39] I loved how uncompromising she was.

[01:23:41] It's been strangely frustrating certainly for the character.

[01:23:45] Well, I guess for me too, in a way, but all with a purpose.

[01:23:48] In a way Maeve's agency starts again in the season three finale.

[01:23:52] I've spent basically pretty much seasons two and three floundering

[01:23:55] learning some Katana skills and creating a path for the audience

[01:23:59] to better understand what the hosts have been dealing with.

[01:24:03] And then Vanity Fair continues.

[01:24:05] If any of that sounds negative at all, that's not Newton's attitude in the slightest.

[01:24:09] When it comes to talking about Westworld, she's glowing.

[01:24:12] Quote, I really trust these guys, she says of the Westworld writers.

[01:24:15] I think they're master storytellers.

[01:24:17] Season four, she posits, is the season of Westworld where the show needs

[01:24:21] to convince Maeve she wants to be in this fight after all.

[01:24:24] Quote, I feel like that would be a good guide for the next season.

[01:24:28] Make me give a shit about what she's doing.

[01:24:30] So you can tell she's kind of feeling like she's a good guy.

[01:24:33] She's kind of feeling like we are about it.

[01:24:36] Yeah, it's really funny to hear that she felt that way too.

[01:24:40] I can imagine.

[01:24:42] Okay, let's move on to some listener feedback.

[01:24:46] Okay, James Aducci says, first of all, thanks for the podcast.

[01:24:51] You're welcome.

[01:24:52] I could never make any sense of this show without it.

[01:24:56] We've got him off on the wrong track.

[01:24:59] All in all, the finale was kind of a hash.

[01:25:02] A lot of walking around in the dark and shooting, a lot of questions.

[01:25:06] What's the deal with Metal Frame Dolores?

[01:25:08] How and why did Shellorus freeze Dolores?

[01:25:12] That's a good question.

[01:25:13] Did we know the answer to that?

[01:25:15] She mentioned something about Delos and I thought that she

[01:25:19] used the technology that she had access to at Delos to figure out.

[01:25:26] But yeah, it was really said.

[01:25:28] Got it.

[01:25:30] Why did they have to delete Dolores memory to search it?

[01:25:35] Unclair.

[01:25:36] I think they wanted to kill her anyway.

[01:25:40] How did Dolores memories defeat Rehobo on the most sophisticated computer ever built?

[01:25:45] Just gave control of it to Caleb.

[01:25:48] Right, I think she had a Trojan horse basically built into her malware.

[01:25:53] She delivered malware to it.

[01:25:54] How did Maeve get into Dolores's head?

[01:25:58] That's the ability we've seen earlier in her.

[01:26:01] Although not always clear why she didn't use it earlier in this season.

[01:26:05] Why Dolores's deathbed conversation to seeing the good in humanity?

[01:26:09] Although I did like the callback to her mantra from season one about seeing the good in the world.

[01:26:14] Why Maeve's conversion?

[01:26:16] Good callback to the dual scene in Return of the Jedi.

[01:26:20] Though Darth Vader converts, kills the Emperor.

[01:26:23] Not my idea stolen from E.W. Recap.

[01:26:27] How did Maeve override Serox off button?

[01:26:31] I assume Dolores isn't really permanently dead and sci-fi death isn't all that permanent.

[01:26:36] You can get better.

[01:26:38] Rehoboam was really right.

[01:26:40] Buildings blowing up 10 minutes after he spot-flying.

[01:26:43] That's funny.

[01:26:44] Love the post credit scenes.

[01:26:46] We did too.

[01:26:47] Although I wondered if that was Lawrence Dolores,

[01:26:51] because when we saw him he pointed to a big giant bat of,

[01:26:56] it said on that side flammable liquid or something like that.

[01:27:00] Oh, that's a good call.

[01:27:01] I didn't even think of that.

[01:27:02] Fireworks are going to be later tonight.

[01:27:04] Yeah, I didn't think of that.

[01:27:05] That's a great call.

[01:27:06] It probably was him.

[01:27:08] Elizabeth Nicolayevitch says,

[01:27:10] looks like we're back to free will versus fate.

[01:27:12] What's the right thing?

[01:27:13] Which are man's eternal dilemma.

[01:27:17] And Pink Floyd's dark side of the moon.

[01:27:19] Awesome choice of music in itself.

[01:27:21] There is no dark side of the moon.

[01:27:23] The battle continues.

[01:27:24] As a matter of fact, it's all dark.

[01:27:26] CJ Dan, I thought this season was a pretty good recovery from the stumble that was season two.

[01:27:32] Hard to beat the bar that season one was,

[01:27:34] but like that they tried something a bit different.

[01:27:36] Aaron Paul was great and I'd be interested in him continuing in the series.

[01:27:41] I think he will.

[01:27:42] I think you're in luck.

[01:27:43] Yeah, Robin Simons says,

[01:27:45] this whole season has been so disappointing to me.

[01:27:47] Counterpoint.

[01:27:48] Not sure I'll bother coming back,

[01:27:50] which I can't even believe I'm saying considering how much I used to love it.

[01:27:53] But I do think that the trailer for a loved craft country looked awesome.

[01:27:57] I didn't see that.

[01:27:58] Oh, we saw it.

[01:27:59] It looks really good.

[01:28:01] Oh yeah, HBO show.

[01:28:03] Yep, Jordan Peele.

[01:28:06] JJ Abrams involved.

[01:28:08] It looks like sort of horror sci-fi drama.

[01:28:12] Looks great.

[01:28:13] Nice.

[01:28:14] From John Bucket,

[01:28:16] really started to lose interest this season mainly due to a lack of any character to get behind.

[01:28:21] Also, the silly gunfights particularly in this finale episode.

[01:28:25] Automatic weapons at point blank range still missing.

[01:28:28] I know it's nitpicky,

[01:28:29] but it's symptomatic of my lack of emotional involvement that it bothered me.

[01:28:35] John totally feel you on this one and I totally agree that bugged me all season two.

[01:28:40] And Marie Hellman says I was confused overall,

[01:28:44] so she was a Terminator all season,

[01:28:46] but in the end she loved humanity so much she was actually trying to save it.

[01:28:50] Counting down until Wednesday to see what you guys think.

[01:28:52] Hopefully we cleared it up a little bit.

[01:28:55] Lindsay Schlick says,

[01:28:57] I am also feeling underwhelmed.

[01:28:58] I think I even dozed off for a few moments.

[01:29:01] The last 15 minutes or so were kind of interesting.

[01:29:04] It's nice to know rooting for Dolores was the right thing.

[01:29:07] I'd be sad if the actress is gone for good.

[01:29:10] I have nothing against Aaron Paul and he's been a fun addition,

[01:29:13] but if Dolores has gone for real and he is our new hero,

[01:29:17] it feels undeserved and frankly annoying.

[01:29:20] Yet again, the girl can never end as the actual hero has to go to the guy,

[01:29:24] looking at you Game of Thrones.

[01:29:27] As I write this, I'm struggling to even remember the episode I was so bored.

[01:29:31] I'll be interested to hear you guys break it down

[01:29:33] as you usually make my view a little more positive by the end.

[01:29:36] Thanks for the great podcast helps me figure out this show every season.

[01:29:42] Let us know what you thought.

[01:29:43] Yeah, thanks Lindsay.

[01:29:45] Tracy Walker, I feel underwhelmed.

[01:29:47] I can't really think of anything that happened that makes me think,

[01:29:49] oh my God, how will I be able to stand waiting until 2022?

[01:29:53] I feel like I will literally forget about it and then it'll come back

[01:29:56] and I'll be like, oh yeah, Westworld.

[01:29:58] I guess I'll check it out.

[01:30:00] Also Dolores picking Kayla because he's one of the few men

[01:30:03] who didn't rate Perseems like a pretty low bar.

[01:30:06] It really does.

[01:30:09] I gotta admit, we didn't really get into this but

[01:30:12] I never felt like we got to really know Caleb this season.

[01:30:16] We got shown a bunch of stuff about him and sort of what his history was

[01:30:21] but we never really got to know him.

[01:30:23] Yeah, little bits.

[01:30:26] Sirach said something like whenever you're pressed you resort to violence

[01:30:31] but we've only seen him be violent when he's threatened and it's self-defense I would say.

[01:30:38] In fact, this very episode he let a guy go.

[01:30:42] Don't die for these guys.

[01:30:46] So I think we've seen acts of kindness and things like that to make us make me feel like

[01:30:51] anyway that he's a good guy but I still feel like he's just kind of not that fleshed out.

[01:30:57] Yeah, I mean just don't really understand what makes him tick I think.

[01:31:02] Brian White says I was intrigued by the after credit scenes.

[01:31:05] I still don't know what any of it means.

[01:31:07] I hope the West returns to Westworld by which I assume he means going back to the park.

[01:31:13] Yeah, maybe the parks will come back.

[01:31:16] Yeah, I hope so.

[01:31:17] Sarah Larkham says I really hope that Dolores isn't dead because she's my favorite character.

[01:31:21] Hopefully she's in season four.

[01:31:23] I love the whole episode even though I will have to watch the season multiple times to

[01:31:27] really understand the season.

[01:31:29] I love the Pink Floyd song Brain Damage at the end.

[01:31:33] Will we see Aaron Paul next season?

[01:31:35] I hope so.

[01:31:36] Yeah, we will.

[01:31:37] Yep.

[01:31:37] Grippy Bob Domilino says Dolores and Maeve and Caleb plotline was the least interesting part

[01:31:43] even after eight episodes.

[01:31:45] William's End and Bernard plotline is what carried this episode.

[01:31:51] Bianx Vargas says stuuubbs.

[01:31:54] Thank you for the season's podcast looking forward to a review of tonight's show.

[01:31:58] Thank you.

[01:31:59] And Jennifer Ware says what the hell did I just watch?

[01:32:05] Westworld and we have a couple of calls.

[01:32:08] Michael Darwin called in it's a six minute call.

[01:32:11] I figure what the hell let's play it.

[01:32:13] Here we go.

[01:32:15] Hello Jason and David this is Michael Darwin of the Bullets, Propels and Bots podcast

[01:32:19] as well as Dark Discussions and Cinema Alicardi.

[01:32:23] I want to thank you for all your coverage for this season.

[01:32:25] I don't know if you're going to do a wrap up episode, but I did want to give you my thoughts on this

[01:32:29] final episode and sort of the wrap up to the whole season very quickly or as quickly as I can go

[01:32:34] which asked my students is maybe not that quick.

[01:32:37] So I apologize if I'm rambling.

[01:32:40] Honestly ended up liking this season in the beginning and not liking it at the end.

[01:32:45] I just don't think they paid off the story points.

[01:32:49] I think they have successfully nailed the first and second season finales

[01:32:54] and left me satisfied that didn't happen here.

[01:32:58] Weirdly enough, depending on the storyline, they either had too many episodes or too few.

[01:33:03] A lot of time spent on Caleb for a storyline that was kind of predictable

[01:33:07] or we didn't really care about.

[01:33:09] Dolores, they did too much withholding information about what her goals and her

[01:33:17] plots and her plans were to add some mystery to it even though really the mystery ended up not

[01:33:22] being all that satisfying.

[01:33:24] And we get that nice scene at the beginning of the episode which is

[01:33:28] I choose to see the beauty in the world which is great but it felt like they were sort of just

[01:33:33] going all Jedi Knight and hand waving us and saying just please forget that she was

[01:33:38] ever Robot Hitler in the second season.

[01:33:40] Bernard, William, Maeve, did their storylines really go anywhere all season?

[01:33:49] Maeve, my favorite character on the show she just got turned into Oddjob.

[01:33:54] Why the hell is she running around with a samurai sword in the year 2050 what,

[01:34:01] two, 2058? Dolores has a gun. Maeve has a katana. Looks nice. Not going to win that battle.

[01:34:14] Again, William killing him off for what character, nice character they did

[01:34:20] sort of stretched out and just not enough of him though in the whole season.

[01:34:25] One of my also again a very popular fan favorite character

[01:34:29] Ed Harris, great actor, feels wasted even in these eight episodes.

[01:34:33] His storylines should have been truncated you know and then you get Dolores maybe more time

[01:34:42] to show her character and her change of her character most of her stuff was being seen

[01:34:47] through the eyes of Caleb or Charlotte or someone else rather than seeing things from

[01:34:52] Dolores's point of view so again we don't really get into her skin even though we do

[01:34:59] see her get into her own skin in this episode. She needed more time and Charlotte oddly needed

[01:35:06] more time she already got you know two solid episodes devoted to her but then she has this

[01:35:11] big change of heart which we see the evolution of from episodes you know say one three and I

[01:35:19] think six and I get it but I still could have used more but then she blames Dolores for blowing

[01:35:26] her up so she turns on Dolores by turning against humanity which Dolores supposedly was against the

[01:35:32] system. She does a hill turn right she goes I don't I don't know my family I don't care about my family

[01:35:40] to caring about my family to back to not caring about my family so her character arc is really

[01:35:45] just a loop. I don't get it I don't understand it I mean I'm not that I don't want to say

[01:35:51] I don't understand it I understand it I don't find it plausible this is the sort of sketchy

[01:35:57] storytelling that hampered Game of Thrones season eight yeah I went there sorry I shouldn't have

[01:36:05] and again Bernard Jeff you're right wonderful actor totally wasted after episode two the little

[01:36:12] gimmick of him switching back and forth between his two personalities disappears for five or six

[01:36:17] episodes why he has no agency of his own he is just kind of he has a bad plan it gets he botches it in

[01:36:28] episode five and then he's just going here Connell says go there he goes there men in blacks

[01:36:35] says follow me and I'm gonna kill you so sure I'm gonna follow you and you can kill us later

[01:36:39] and then this episode here go here Dolores want you to go see your your old wife Tina Torres

[01:36:46] and an old age makeup sure I'll go do that and get closure for a thing that why I if we had some more

[01:36:54] insight into Dolores this might make more sense and maybe Bernard's arc would make more sense

[01:36:58] and why she sent Bernard away no it turns out Bernard is only there so he can be the

[01:37:03] McGuffin of having the encryption key I don't like that I think he's wasted I don't think that

[01:37:10] the storyline is unsalivageable but it feels like they went through all of this stuff for

[01:37:20] a metadata and data collection and manipulating people similar to Nolan's other series Person

[01:37:26] of Interest seems to things obsessed with but it seems like a detour in Westworld as opposed

[01:37:30] to its main point when all we're going to end up doing at the end is bring us right back to

[01:37:36] killer robots invading the world and at least that's what it seems like and I will give them credit

[01:37:42] I that last scene the post-credits scene does have me hooked you know the actors are still great

[01:37:48] the cinematography and directing is still great the sets are great the effects are great the

[01:37:53] music is fantastic I already picked up the soundtrack but man they just could not pay off

[01:38:00] they just could not pay off the story well enough and they just really undercooked

[01:38:05] three of the major characters in Bernard, Maeve and William so all right I have some thoughts about

[01:38:12] next season if you do a wrap-up episode I'll give you my thoughts on those

[01:38:16] on that going forward and if not I will see you around on the the Walking Dead finale

[01:38:24] and maybe whatever other show you're gonna do all right so until next time this is

[01:38:29] Michael Darwin signing off thanks dude Michael's been a long time listener so appreciate all your

[01:38:35] thoughts man that was an epic phone call he's a podcaster and yeah I mean I think he more succinctly

[01:38:43] and perspicaciously summed it all up than we did

[01:38:49] I'm went a couple of things about Shaloris not quite making sense about whether she was upset

[01:38:56] about her family getting killed or not my take on that was that you know she let herself open up

[01:39:01] and be vulnerable and then she got smacked for it and so now she's completely closed off fuck

[01:39:06] everybody I'm gonna just you know kill streamline as she says and she's just become cold and

[01:39:14] sees vulnerability is as weak she thanked Dolores for doing that yeah I agree with that she's the

[01:39:21] if you think about probably the three most dangerous predators in this show if we're gonna

[01:39:26] discount dr. Ford it's Dolores man and black and Charlotte or at least parts of each and

[01:39:34] it seems like she's now channeling the predator part of each right okay let's do our call from

[01:39:44] Steve Brown so sorry I forgot to send a voicemail last week but this one I can't wait for this

[01:39:51] this season finale I'm recording this beforehand to help me remember to send you one immediately

[01:39:57] after I watched the season finale because this season has been really really good even though

[01:40:03] last episode you guys mentioned it everybody said it it was way telegraphed that Caleb had

[01:40:08] killed actually killed Francis anyway I'm gonna add more to this after I watched the finale

[01:40:13] okay so I just finished watching the finale and whoa I it's definitely gonna need a rewatch

[01:40:21] probably more than one rewatch to really understand everything I'm still not clear on some of the

[01:40:28] stuff and do we know where William ended up I don't think so so he's still out there

[01:40:35] Bernard we don't know what happened with Bernard when he realized that he had the key so

[01:40:42] there's a lot set up for next season I mean it did close out some things but there's a whole

[01:40:46] lot set up for next season so a couple of big things big things that stood out to me

[01:40:54] I loved the and I don't know if it was homage determinator or not but when Caleb made the

[01:41:01] remark marked for termination that's you know directly out of the terminator

[01:41:06] kind of saga where we hear that a lot marked for termination so I thought that was that

[01:41:10] was a cool little call back there if that's what it was and just the whole I don't know there's a lot

[01:41:18] in this that that kind of puzzled me and so I'm definitely gonna need to hear what you guys

[01:41:25] thought about it and how you guys explain it because you guys do such a great job and

[01:41:31] I can't wait until next season whenever we get it and I can't wait to hear what you guys

[01:41:37] thought of this one and again I apologize for not sending a voicemail last week all right talk to you

[01:41:44] later whatever you guys do next thanks man it's okay man we I mean you call in so much

[01:41:56] you missed one week it hurt my feelings but it's fine Steve is a guaranteed good call every week

[01:42:03] so he definitely was missed but I don't think he had seen the after credit scene when he made that call

[01:42:10] because he said he didn't know where William ended up yeah good point never trust westworld always go

[01:42:16] to the end yeah yeah go back and watch that and let me know what you thought yeah so what are we

[01:42:23] gonna do next dude you know we covered Mandalorian before on this podcast and they um put out a

[01:42:31] bunch of making of episodes so I thought about doing one episode covering that but you haven't seen it so

[01:42:37] I have not right yeah I got I gotta catch up on that um but uh I don't know maybe this new Jordan

[01:42:44] Peel show maybe so if it's good that could be awesome yeah possibly for that yeah I think there's

[01:42:51] a pretty good chance it'd be great though all right we'll keep that in mind yeah all right

[01:43:09] that is our show thank you for listening everybody thanks for listening over the season thank you for

[01:43:15] writing in can't believe this season's over what the hell it's like it's it's truncated or something

[01:43:23] yeah I mean it went by so fast like it almost feels like we were just stuck at home the whole

[01:43:28] time and time just went by desperate for stuff to watch and listen to yeah um well geez I have

[01:43:37] all this stuff about where to call and everything but it's over so um well I guess if you want to

[01:43:44] write in or record a message and send it in you can email us at westrollatpodcastica.com

[01:43:49] yeah we'll answer you yeah you can go to facebook.com slash house podcastica I mean we're not sure

[01:43:57] what we're gonna do next but stay tuned like I said we might be covering some of these

[01:44:03] Mandalorian making of episodes and and uh David and I just might do that Jordan Peele show what's

[01:44:09] it called again I was hoping you were gonna say it I already forgot that for you somebody was it

[01:44:19] Lindsey Schlick no um I'm looking back over the emails right now I can cut this out Lovecraft

[01:44:25] Country yeah according to Robin Simons yeah I'm going to check that out definitely I didn't

[01:44:31] see the preview but I'll check it out but there will be more content so just stay tuned

[01:44:36] and also next week on walking dead cast Karen's gonna be back and she and Lucy and I are gonna

[01:44:42] be talking about us the freaky Jordan Peele movie that came out last yeah a movie that I also uh

[01:44:48] loved but you guys didn't have room for me it's the way it goes maybe I'll sit that way out

[01:44:54] no no I liked it too no we're gonna have David on to talk about something else that

[01:44:59] David loves whatever it was being think about that all right that's our show dude thanks for

[01:45:06] podcasting with me all year it was great you may sound like me but you don't know me you're just some

[01:45:12] fucking cheap imitation