45: "Them's the Brakes" (S3E3)

[00:00:29] Hi, welcome to our podcast. I'm Daphne. And I'm Penny. And I'm Wendy. And this is

[00:01:20] Yellowjackets WTF episode 45. This week we'll be covering season three, episode three, Them's the Brakes. This episode I had to watch multiple times. I often do, but this time it took three watches instead of two. I did four. Yeah, it took a lot because there were a lot of little

[00:01:44] things that you would miss if you didn't watch it more than once. And in order to be prepared, I felt like I had to do that. I'm excited for the episodes that are coming up, but I feel like we got a lot more in the timeline of the adults this time. But then we also in the teen timeline got

[00:02:09] some interesting things, especially with between Mari and Coach and then the fever dream, I guess gas induced dream that Shauna, Akilah and Van had. So what did you guys think overall? I thought it was a little bit of a filler episode. I mean, I still loved every minute of it. I feel like

[00:02:33] everything gave us something, but I do feel like it was one of those episodes that it's just moving the goalposts down. Yeah. I thought the same thing. A lot of stories got touched and moved a little bit, but it was about sort of setting the table and putting all of the characters in the places that they need to be and breaking up what little friendship there was between Shauna and Misty.

[00:03:01] Man, I want to know so much what happened when they got back from being out there. Yeah. I mean, I know Shauna and Misty weren't BFFs out there, but I feel like last episodes, they were starting to come together. And now I'm starting to think, hmm, did something happen to

[00:03:24] make Shauna completely repulse by Misty? Because she really let her have it in this episode. There are some things to unpack for sure. And I agree. I think it touched on a lot of stories. I'm really interested though, in what your fucked up moment of the week is. So who wants to go first? I will. I chose, and it was not a super easy choice, but I chose Lottie giving the locket or the

[00:03:51] necklace to Callie without, obviously, without Shauna's knowledge or approval. It just, I mean, I can't even imagine what it did to Shauna. But for me, it triggered so much of the emotions of like Jackie dying and of Natalie almost dying and the hunt. Because remember, Shauna put the necklace on

[00:04:17] Natalie before she was going to kill her. And also her asking Lottie like how she even has it. I was like, yeah, how does she even have that? Like, how did that make it out of the wilderness? How does she have it and not Shauna? And to do that, it just was part of like, just taking Shauna right back to the feeling that Lottie was trying to steal her baby

[00:04:45] or take over her baby. And it was like, she's doing it again, you know, and Shauna lost it. I mean, she's on edge right now. And Lottie just like stepped right into the spot where the, you know, her temper was going to take aim. That was my fucked up moment. Me too. All three of us. And you said it was close, Penny, but I didn't feel like it was close at all. I felt like it was clearly the winner.

[00:05:12] Yeah, for me too. I feel like there were other things in the episode that you could pick. But I think that this one had like a sign with lights around it saying fucked up moment of the week right here. You know, with arrows and stuff. Pick me, pick me. Yeah, I absolutely agree. I thought it was interesting that Shauna went right to Misty

[00:05:37] about blaming her for the brakes in her car when my mind went to Lottie right away because of this. And seeing this with the necklace kickstarted that, you know, just kind of or rather reinforced that in my head that, hmm, yeah, something's going on. I mean, Lottie is not to be trusted, at least I don't think so. But we'll definitely get into it with our points. I'm actually excited that

[00:06:05] we all had the same one because I felt like it was pretty obvious that that was something that got a reaction out of Shauna for sure. Yeah, rightfully so. So I think we should go ahead and move to our points. Who wants to go first? I'll just follow up on that. So what Lottie is doing, adult Lottie, with Callie,

[00:06:34] to me, looks like a seduction. The same way that, like, a groomer would groom a child for sexual purposes. She's doing this thing first off where she's like, she's noticed that Callie is interested in her and she's taking advantage of it. And she's turned it around and she's like, you're intrigued by me, but I see something special in you that no one else sees. And there's a reason why you're not as close to other people.

[00:07:03] It's because you're a special kind of person that should be with people like me who are free thinkers and we don't even pay for clothes. And, you know, isn't it exciting? Isn't it glamorous? Isn't it cool to be like me? And Callie is so ripe for this. And it's so dangerous what Lottie's doing. And yet I can also understand Callie's point of view where she's like, there's this exciting and interesting person.

[00:07:31] And my life is so like suburban New Jersey. Like I want to be part of this worldly world that this person represents to me. And also, you know, I want information and ooh, a pretty dress and she thinks I'm special. It's, it's all a game that Lottie plays. We see teen Lottie doing kind of the same thing with Akilah when she's like, oh, it's drawn to you because you're special. You know, don't you want to be special? And Akilah is,

[00:08:00] it's all but cringing. She's like, I don't want anything to do with that. You know, like, please don't make me be that person. And, um, it's just, uh, it's fascinating to watch, but it's also kind of heartbreaking to see Callie falling for it. Yeah. Because I think Callie is too smart for this. Like, I feel like she should know better because what she went through in a previous season with a different character,

[00:08:27] she seemed to kind of be aware. And I feel like she's not really aware or maybe she's smarter than we think. And she's totally aware of what's going on. And she's playing along to get the information because some of this really has to do with her relationship with her mother, I think,

[00:08:49] because she wants to know more than what her mother is telling her or what she perceives her mom is holding back. And she wants to know more. Yeah. About what happened out there. And. I think Callie thinks she's smart enough. To be in control when somebody like Lottie is trying to lure her into her orbit, but she does not know just how fucked up Lottie is. She doesn't.

[00:09:19] No, she does. She does not know. It's it. Shauna said, you know, basically when she came kind of clean with Callie, she came clean to the killing and the cannibalism, but she didn't tell her anything about the religious stuff that happened or the, you know, the fighting amongst the girls. And I think Callie thinks, okay, I get the picture. And she's just woefully under informed and not prepared for somebody like Lottie who has

[00:09:48] an amazing ability to seduce people. I also felt like Callie, her real goal is to get to know her mother better. And what Shauna's not really very open in general as a person and Lottie is. So I feel like it's, there's kind of a subbing going on for that.

[00:10:13] But I think Lottie's really harmful to others in both timelines. Well, we saw what she did to Travis on last week's episodes and it was terrible. I mean, he was so high or out of it that he hurt her. And she did that. She pushed him to that point.

[00:10:37] And there was a point in this episode when they were talking about the necklace where Lottie says, it doesn't, it never meant what you thought it meant. It feels right, Shauna. Don't you feel it too? And that didn't sit well with Shauna, but Shauna also knows who Lottie is. Not just this Lottie,

[00:11:03] but Lottie from the teenage years and everything that happened. So she's trying to protect her daughter from a cult leader, basically, because let's not forget what Lottie was doing with her commune that she had. Intentional community. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:11:28] And I think Lottie knows what Shauna thinks that necklace is. And Lottie doesn't tell Callie anything about the necklace. I'm sure Lottie was like, oh, here, here's this cute little thing. Because Callie doesn't even know why her mom's so upset. And she could have easily just waited until Shauna got home and said, hey, what do you think about me giving this to Callie? But no, Shauna didn't even know that Lottie had the necklace.

[00:11:58] I mean, Lottie tries to pretend like, and I do think in some ways it is unconscious. Like she probably thinks she really is helping people, but she's not. She's hurting people left and right. And if I was Shauna, I would not want her anywhere near my child. Yeah. And I don't blame her for that at all. No. In fact, I thought her reaction was exactly proportional.

[00:12:28] Like I'm sure Callie was like, whoa, my mom's crazy. She completely overreacted to that. But I was like, no, that was dead on accurate as to how you should react. To Lottie like horning in on another one of your kids, putting this symbol of the worst thing that ever happened to you on your kid's neck. Like, you know, and making light of it and defending it when you call her on it. And like, I'm surprised that, that Shauna didn't throw things at Lottie,

[00:12:58] you know, like she threw all that stuff off the kitchen counter. That was actually, I thought fairly controlled rage, given that Lottie was like endangering her kid again. And I think too, Lottie, I want to see more of what happened and we're getting more. I feel like we're getting more this season.

[00:13:20] We're getting more of Lottie and we've seen her in the way that she is in the teen timeline with being impressionable upon Travis and just really not forcing, but pushing and encouraging him to do things that he doesn't want to do. In order to get more information for herself,

[00:13:49] since she's not really hearing the wilderness talk to her anymore. And I think that that necklace, we know that pit girl was wearing it. So for Shauna to react this way, Lottie may have looked at it like something different and it could have meant something different to her, like part of a,

[00:14:17] some sort of ceremony or ritual. But to Shauna, I'm getting the sense that it meant something very different. Like your, you know, the person who was going to die was wearing it. The sacrifice. The sacrifice. And so I think Lottie's kind of playing a game with Shauna because this is going to push Shauna to have to tell Callie some things,

[00:14:45] especially because she reacted the way she did. Like, how was she going to explain to Callie why she was so upset? And if she doesn't, then it's just going to push Callie into following after Lottie. Right. Like if she can't get the information from her mother, she'll, she'll go back to Lottie and get sucked into Lottie's orbit and become one of, you know, Lottie's followers. And Lottie, it seems like can't help herself. She, she wants followers. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:14] Like it's the first thing she did when she got out of the hospital. Like, you know, within 10 minutes of being at the Sudeiki household, she's zeroed in on Callie and is like, Hmm, I could flip that one. I do wonder, do you think she was actually released? Who knows? Psych wards are. Yeah. They,

[00:15:44] but if you're involuntary, the, the standard is very high for somebody to be hospitalized against their consent. And even then, like I've witnessed it multiple times where they ignore that. I mean, I, I remember one time as a nurse, I had a patient come to our unit who was immediately professing suicide and had a plan, had everything. And when I called a psychiatrist who just released him,

[00:16:13] she said, yeah, I've told him to stop saying that stuff. What? Like, Oh, that's lovely. That's lovely. That's horrifying. It makes you think that they're just not taking it seriously. They just want to discharge. That system is so overloaded. It really is. They basically have got, had to triage it to the point where it's like, are you holding a knife against someone's throat? That seems dangerous. All right, let's take them in. Like they,

[00:16:43] but if you put it down, you're okay. Yeah. It's okay here. Have some, you know, gabapentin. You'll be fine. Yeah. It seems so weird. Yeah. It seems so weird to think that that's the situation. It's hard. It's something. Um, I actually took this really fascinating class in law school called rights of people with mental disabilities.

[00:17:04] And a huge chunk of what we studied was how people get involuntarily committed or involuntarily medicated and what different states will do and what different courts will do and what the standards are. We went to see some commitment hearings at Bellevue hospital and the standards are really, really high. And at first you're like, well, somebody who clearly needs help should be hospitalized.

[00:17:28] But then you think about how that can be abused by people in power to hospitalize people who are just a little bit off or have a different lifestyle choice or just, you know, want to be free thinkers and not conform to society's expectations. Like we don't want to have a system that makes it too easy to commit or medicate people against their will. And finding that line is just a constant struggle of when it's the right thing to do and when it's not.

[00:17:56] So I fight that all the time in healthcare. It's that people have the right to make shitty decisions. Yeah. And, and I get that all the time. I get parents who want to force, uh, I mean, children, adult children who want to force their parents into some type of action, even though they're alert and oriented and capable of making their own decisions. And it's like, no, you, you can't, they can still make shitty decisions.

[00:18:26] for themselves. And that's right. You know, they can plan this treatment, even if it's going to kill them to do that. They're allowed to do that. That's just, that's the ethics that we as a country, as a society, hold onto is this free will. And so we structure our laws and policies, at least before the current administration around preserving as much free will as possible, but while still having a functioning society. It's a balance. Right.

[00:18:55] And making it safe for others. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Does anyone have anything that you want to add to that? Before we move on to the next point. I think I'm good. All right. Wendy, would you like to go next? Sure. I'm going to talk about coach Ben. Of course. I knew it. That's good. I've got tons of notes on him too. Lots happening.

[00:19:22] So this was a very Ben Cetric episode, which I loved. We see him and Mari kind of trying to relate to each other. Mari tries to come on to him. And he really makes it obvious that he doesn't really like any of these girls. He's had it up to here with them. He's done with them. But yet,

[00:19:52] at the same time, he didn't kill Mari. He didn't drag her off in the woods or knock her out or do any of that. He is there with her, feeding her. But he still has her tied up. She sprays him with bear spray. And then he sprays her with bear spray. But then he's still helping her. He's still like pouring water over her eyes, even though she sprayed him with bear spray.

[00:20:23] And it really made me think, because I have always thought it was Ben who burned down the cabin. But kind of after these events, all the way up to the end of Ben's arc in this episode, I kind of maybe think it wasn't him, because he doesn't seem capable of hurting them. Even at the end, he saves Van from the poisonous gas.

[00:20:51] And he seems to be wanting to help them. And I don't know. I just, I don't know, like, if he did it or didn't do it. And maybe we're not supposed to know. What do you think? Do you think, did this change your mind? Yeah, a little bit. Him letting Mari go, and even more so, saving the girls from the gas in the cave,

[00:21:20] made me think that he didn't burn down the cabin. That he is not a person who is capable of that, even as an impulse. He wouldn't have gone through with it. And he could have so easily just abandoned them and let them die from the gas. And he, and his instinct was to save them. And even more with Mari, deciding to let her go and to trust her with the knowledge of where he is,

[00:21:50] was really, I don't even know what the right word is. Like, I don't think a killer could do that. And would do that. And I don't think he would do that if he had tried to kill them a few months earlier. I, I don't know what to think about who burned down the cabin. It still seems like somebody was outside the cabin who blocked the doors and windows. But, yeah, I don't think it's Coach anymore. I think that,

[00:22:19] yeah, there's going to be some kind of trial. They're going to like drag him back to camp and then, you know, put him on trial in some way, shape or form. Whatever that's going to mean. Right. And Mari really comes off through all this as really not a good person. Like, she seems callous and she, she does try to protect him, but it was like for half a beat. And then she just gave it all up.

[00:22:49] And she didn't have to. She could have easily said, she could have easily admitted what happened and just said, oh, I can't find my way back there. But, but that's not what she did. No. She led them to the tree. So, um, I just was hoping for something different, but obviously I didn't get it out of Mari. She had a couple of opportunities to protect him. Yeah.

[00:23:17] And there was a point that Natalie just says, fuck. And I think that is because she knew that Coach was out there and she didn't want them to go after him either. And I don't think Misty does. Like, I feel like there are a few people that are on his side at least a little bit. Yeah. Nat and Misty were the ones professing it. Although at the end, Nat is the one holding the gun on him.

[00:23:47] Because she, if she didn't do it, somebody else might actually shoot him. Like, Natalie is smart to control the gun and keep it on her because those other people are unpredictable. Like, if Shauna had gotten a hold of the gun, she probably would have killed Ben. Right. Yes. Just on sight. Well, and I also thought in some ways that was for Nat to retain her power as well. Yeah, she didn't have much choice at that point. She had to take him into custody

[00:24:17] or whatever. And, you know, she did say sorry, Coach. Do we think the roar that Coach and Mari heard and Coach talking to himself was because of the gas now? It very well could be. I'm not sure about, I'm not sure about the roar, but I think that he's been, I think he's probably been affected by the gas. If he's been living in that cave system, who knows? Like, it probably comes and goes, right?

[00:24:45] So sometimes he's a little loopy and sometimes he's not. Well, and they, remember, they talked about Javi having a friend out there. I just wonder if that friend was even real because... Of the gas, maybe there was hallucinations. And Ben was having hallucinations like long before he was in the caves. Remember, he was seeing Paul and, and like their, their life as it could have been together. Yeah. I, I loved all that.

[00:25:14] It didn't end the way I thought it was going to. I was upset to see that they got him. Um, I'm kind of thinking he might not be around for long. I hope he is, though. I really, really, really hope he's still alive in the present timeline. Um, but I will ask the both of you, do you think Ben will be alive in episode five? You mean season five? No, episode five

[00:25:44] of this season. of this season. I hope so, Wendy. I hope so. I hope so. He's so fun right now as a character. Yes. Like, he's like being a little bit crazy but still being a sweetheart. Like, the fact that he apparently is good at cooking bats. Like, I don't know. And he's the only adult, you know? Yeah. I mean, if we're gonna call him an adult. Well, I mean, and let's, let's be honest. We know that they go down an even darker path.

[00:26:14] Is it because he is taken out? Right. Is he the only thing? Is this the first murder? Because they haven't murdered. Yeah. Right. And is this the first murder? That's, that's what I'm wondering. Yeah. I mean, it very well could be. I hope not. I hope we're not giving a eulogy in the next episode. Yeah. RIP coach. I fully expect you, Wendy, if we lose him, I fully expect you

[00:26:43] to come with a eulogy for him. All right. I will. Poor Ben is dead. When he's just really getting interesting. I know. Like, he's really getting interesting. And there's another show that the three of us watch that it seems like whenever someone is getting to that point where they're interesting or they're getting an arc, they end up dead. Yeah, they finish the arc with their death. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I,

[00:27:13] I was also a little worried about Akilah because she's gotten a lot of focus on her the last few episodes, too. So, so, which I love. Did you notice that when she was, when they were standing outside the tree and Natalie says, we don't have to do this and Akilah says, yes, we do. And like, it pans away, but when it pans back to her, she's got tears coming down.

[00:27:43] I didn't notice that. From one eye. Mm-hmm. And so, I'm not sure why that is. Like, yeah, I'm not really sure. I think for some of them, they truly do believe that he tried to kill them and that they're in danger with him being alive. Yeah. I mean, I get that. Yeah, I mean, it's the most logical conclusion for them to draw. Mm-hmm. And it, you know, and they haven't seen him since. It seems pretty clear.

[00:28:13] Mm-hmm. I mean, we all thought he did it, think he did it, don't know if he did it. Like, but Akilah might just be sad or having big emotions about that she thinks they're going to, about to murder Coach. Like, the fact of murder more than the fact of Coach. Yeah. Or maybe she is just very fond of him. And we've never seen them talk to each other before, but I don't know. Yeah. Did you,

[00:28:43] the whole thing, I'm sure this is in your notes one day, the whole thing with Mari and Coach when she's trying to hit on him was, I loved his comeback about it. All the things he brought up about her. Yes. All the things she had said she spread a rumor around that he had, I think, gyneria. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because as a teacher, I'm sure he was aware of all those things, but like,

[00:29:13] you can't really respond to it as a teacher. You know, it's just, you know. I know my daughter's a ninth grade teacher and she kind of goes through some of that stuff, like the things they talk about and say about you. They even make Instagram accounts and talk about the teachers on Instagram, all anonymous posting and things like that. Yeah. That would drive me crazy. Yeah, no. It's very big right now. Yuck. Wow. She was hilarious though.

[00:29:41] That scene was so funny when he's like, I remember one time you told me gym teacher is shorthand for perverted failure and she's like, yeah, and then he gave me detention so we had more time together and I was like, wow, she's shameless. Like, she's just gonna try as hard as she possibly can to like, put him in and then the bear spray scene was so funny. Like, so funny. It really was. And when she's like, I can't believe you did this to me and he's like, you did it, you idiot.

[00:30:11] And I was like, he must have been, like, I got the sense that he's always thought Mari was a horrible person and like, of all of the yellow jackets for him to like, catch in his pit that he's like, at least it's not Misty but like, oh, Mari. Right. And she just can't seem to stop herself even like when she gets back and Shauna's like, where have you been or something? And she just gives this smart ass reply to Shauna. Oh yeah. I walked back to civilization. That's how you got into that. Yeah. To fuck your dad. Nice.

[00:30:41] Yeah. And I'm like, that's how you got into that situation was you huffed off. And I'm not saying Shauna's okay because she's not. There's a lot of anger in Shauna still. Yeah. But I just thought, Mary, wow, she didn't learn anything. She's right back at it. Yeah. She's not a nice person in any stretch of imagination. We've never seen her do anything kind or nice. No. Yeah. I mean, we've seen her kind of falter

[00:31:09] and have some emotional moments but mostly we see her picking on people that she seems like she thinks they're weaker than her. Yeah. Like Misty and Crystal. Yeah. She's just, she's mean-mouthed and the best thing we've seen her do is cook but that, it's not like that's a sacrifice. I mean, she's going to eat too. She's, it's, like at her best, she's like contributing to their society. That's like,

[00:31:38] if that's the bar. I'm wondering if that changes now that she's got an injury because she still can't walk very well so I feel like she's going to have to chill out and not be so nasty but I don't know. I mean, I honestly could see Shauna stabbing her to death tomorrow. It was so interesting though when they were in the woods and Mari hesitated for a second and was looking around,

[00:32:08] Shauna was the one who was like, it's okay, take all the time you need. And I, when Mari first, when they first, you know, Mari first came back to camp and she told them that Coach Scott found her, everything about Shauna changed. She snapped into focus and I think that all this rage and grief that she has been dealing with over the past few months has partially been a problem because she didn't have anywhere to direct it and having, you know,

[00:32:37] this quest to find Coach and then punish him or whatever they're going to do to him gave her the purpose that she needed to stop just like randomly lashing out at everybody. Yeah, it does give her a place to send the anger and I think when you're that angry, you want that. You need something to be mad at or someone to be mad at so that you can reconcile it within yourself. Yeah, and just get it out of your body. I mean, Lottie was right when she identified that Shauna needed

[00:33:07] to beat her up. You know, she knew she was a target of Shauna's ire and that Shauna had all this darkness she needed to get out. It just wasn't enough. She got a little bit of it out. Not the whole thing. It's still in there. She just took off the leading edge of it. That's all. Deep grief. All right. Okay. So, I am going to move us on to Misty and Shauna's magical car ride down the street.

[00:33:38] We're Thelma and Louise! Yes. Which drives me to just be thinking about, again, what on earth happened when they got home to make their be... Did it happen before they got home or before they were rescued that makes them, not just Shauna, but the others, just want nothing to do with Misty? Because I feel like Shauna bottled up

[00:34:07] some of that and it came out in this episode, some of the things that she said to her. I think the things that we have already seen Misty do on screen are enough reasons to feel that way about her already. Like, Shauna's right. She cannot be trusted. I'm sure that Natalie told her that Misty had, like, pulled that cord out of her car to manipulate Natalie into taking her with her to New Hampshire. And, you know, Shauna listed all that stuff that Misty has done that is, like,

[00:34:39] crazy. Like, crazy stuff. And in that moment, I would have blamed Misty, too. Misty is the one who's all huffy when being accused of a completely believable thing that she would do. I don't believe she did it in this case, but it's 100% within Misty's, like, modus operandi to have done that. Right. She's already messed with how many cars just in these last few seasons we've seen. Yeah.

[00:35:09] Although I did immediately think, like, yes, all of that is accurate. However, Shauna was just dismembering her lover a few months ago. So I'm not sure she's got a lot of room to talk. No. It's true. Shauna is a murderer. And, uh, but she is, she, she lies, but not the way Misty does. Mm-hmm. Like we were, we've been talking about, it's like, you don't want to be

[00:35:38] someone Misty loves or someone Misty hates. Right. she, whereas I think Shauna mostly targets people that she has a reason to target, Misty fucks up people's lives because she can't help herself from meddling in things and fucking stuff up. It is such a relief to be able to swear on a podcast, you guys. Which one don't you swear? Still, yeah, still slaying. Ah. We don't swear.

[00:36:09] Although Kara this past week swore a lot and I had a lot of bleeping to do and I take a word from the episode and use it as the bleep. So, this week it was foamy. Yeah, we, we did that with Skeleton Crew. We didn't swear at all. We wanted to keep it like G rated. But on Run for Your Lives, anything goes. Like, lots of swearing. Yeah. It's nice. It just happens. It's a good change of pace.

[00:36:39] Yeah. I thought it was interesting that Misty basically says to Shauna that her daughter is from the same train. Oh, yeah. How did she phrase it? Shauna doesn't deny it either. It was so funny. It was like, unfortunately, apple tree, I can't remember exactly how she said it, apple tree or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Your daughter is quite the schemer. Yeah. Yeah. Well, she got over on Misty and I would think that's hard to do. It is hard to do.

[00:37:09] Yeah. And I mean, Misty shared some of what was going on, the truth of Dare and trying to get Lottie to talk, which is good for Shauna to know that Callie is trying to bait Lottie into talking about what happened out in the wilderness. And Misty also played it up like, I did, you know, everything you asked. I read Lottie the Riot Act as soon as I could and made sure she didn't tell her anything.

[00:37:39] And it's lies because she passed out. Mm-hmm. Um, she offers to help Shauna get the gift basket for the business boys. I'm sure that, uh, Misty is really good at putting together a gift basket. Oh, yeah. That seems like something she would have good skills at. I'm so, yeah, I'm wondering if what's going on with her trying to force this friendship on Shauna, if it's motivated

[00:38:08] by the loss of Natalie and needing someone to, like, you know, target with all of her neediness? Or is it specifically because she wants to prove something to Walter? Like, I'll show Walter this is a real friendship because the way she was trying so hard with Shauna was almost worse than how she was with Natalie. Like, that weird Thelma and Louise thing, like, that's the worst thing to say to Shauna is, like, we're, aren't we a cute

[00:38:38] stereotype about female friendship? Like, the look on Shauna's face was like, I can't stand you and you're a giant dork. Like, just, like, the two things together. Misty just seemed extra desperate this week. Did we see Walter at all in this episode? No. We did not. No. I'm just realizing that. Hmm. I hope he's not gone. I hope he comes back because No, I don't think he's gone. I love that little cute face.

[00:39:09] I mean, Misty does lash back out at Shauna, calling her the worst friend, and that she's not what she deserves, and calls her Shauna Shipman. Mm-hmm. So it's like, Shauna Shipman, okay. That, who knows? Well, they called her Shipman a lot when she was a kid. There's something, I mean, that was a big thing in, in where I grew up is all the boys were called

[00:39:39] by their last name in general. I think that's really, it's weird. That's a big sports team thing. And, yeah, not the girls, but the boys. But I think in girls sports, they do it as well. It's just that girls aren't as likely to base their entire personality around their sports the way that boys are at that age. But I'm sure that she was called just Shipman all the time on the soccer field or, you know, with the rest of the team. I think Misty said Shauna Shipman as a way to punctuate I know you

[00:40:08] and I've known you for a really long time. Yeah, definitely. The whole thing with the breaks, like, who do you guys think messed with the breaks? I don't think it was Misty. I really don't. I don't. I really don't. I think it was whoever left the phone and the mysterious package. I think it's all the same person. Walter could be a suspect too. Yeah. Because he seemed very jealous of Misty having anyone else. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah,

[00:40:38] that makes sense. Yeah, and it wasn't just that the breaks were messed with. The car was accelerating. Yeah. So, somebody did something a little bit sophisticated under there. It wasn't just, like, snip the brake line. Right. I love that they were driving down the road erratically to the sounds of Limp Bizkit's Nookie. Oh, is that what song that was? I thought that was fun. I thought that was definitely fun. The music in this episode was great too. Yeah. I didn't have time to take note of it all, but. Yeah, I have a few of them

[00:41:07] written down. Okay. Yeah. yeah, I, I think that Misty did seem incredibly desperate in this episode trying to force this friendship with Shauna. And I don't know what is gonna happen next with it. I mean, I was surprised that Misty burned the photo of the four of them and didn't at least keep the side that has her and Natalie. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Because. It didn't seem like

[00:41:37] something she would do. She's got a lot of grief over Natalie for multiple reasons. Not only that she lost her friend and the only one who really gave her the time of day, but also she caused it. It's a horrible burden to bear. Even for somebody like, Misty's killed people before. You know, we saw, we all saw her kill Jessica, but Natalie was someone she was actively slave. Yes. So this was

[00:42:07] difficult. This grief that she's feeling is more than just the general grief you feel over a loss. She's having to reconcile within herself her involvement in what she did to cause it. I mean, they were out in the woods doing what it wants and it just ended up Natalie ended up being the one that died.

[00:42:36] And Misty's got to live with what she did. And Shawna calls her like, why do you walk around the woods with a syringe full of poison? Like, that was one of the things she listed and they never talked about it like at the funeral or anything, but like, Misty killed Natalie because she was being too high functioning. I don't know. Well,

[00:43:05] she's also got some stuff in them. They all have, they all know dark things about each other. It's mutually assured destruction. There's a lot of tension. I have a feeling it's just going to continue to rise. And what we've seen is these groups like we have Ty and Van and Shawna and then Lottie and Shawna and Misty and Shawna and Misty with Walter. Like, it's segmented into these groups. We haven't seen them all really come together. Let's not forget, Misty did not go

[00:43:35] to Natalie's funeral. So, I feel like going to a funeral kind of gives you the closure and instead Misty went well, she went to the to the storage unit. That was her own kind of memorial. Yeah, and maybe that's what she needed versus going to the funeral. So, that's really it. I don't know if you guys have anything else

[00:44:04] about that story situation. The car breaks. Yeah, no. I guess Shawna called a tow and then got a cab home or something. She, yeah. She doesn't even mention it when she comes in and finds Lottie and Callie, but they were certainly holding all of her attention at that point. Well, they made her dinner like they were trying to make dinner, but again, I feel like it's still games that Lottie's playing with Shawna. Yeah.

[00:44:34] I think it's still part of a game. So, we are back around to you, Penny. What do you have next? I want to talk about the man with no eyes. Oh, creepy. The scene where Van and Ty are, they're just watching these old VHS tapes of Pee-wee's Playhouse that Van has, and this old commercial comes on for this local ice cream place, and the man with no eyes turns toward

[00:45:04] the camera, and he has eyes, but then the slogan is like, it's so great your eyes will bug out, or something like that, and then his eyes shoot out of his face. And I was horrified on behalf of all the little children in New Jersey who saw that ad real time when they were kids during, like, Saturday morning cartoons or whatever. It was a terrifying, terrifying figure. And Ty, you know, rightly so, had a strong

[00:45:33] reaction to it and immediately wanted to go to that restaurant and find out what she could find out about it. And she was like, I must have seen that when I was a kid. Like, obviously, that's how it got into her subconscious. And in the vision that the teens are having in the cave, when they're in the part where they're all in the classroom together, they all see the guy with no eyes walk by in the hallway with that squeaky wheeled cart. So part of me was like, oh, if they're

[00:46:03] all having the same vision, does that make it real? And then I was like, or did they all just see that commercial when they were kids? You know, it just adds another layer to the mystery of this vision. And whether Ty sort of projected the vision to fit her fears and it was just an image that she had in her head, I can't blame her for finding that guy creepy. Like, who would make that your corporate mascot? Like, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad marketing. Like,

[00:46:33] if I was a kid and my parents tried to take me to that restaurant, I would have screamed my head off. I mean, I don't like clowns and there's a lot of clowns out there. Like, Ronald McDonald is creepy as fuck. I am with you. Sorry. I do not like clowns. So, with Ronald McDonald, you have to go back and look at the early incarnations. Oh, he was even creepier back then. It was, oh my god, that came up at Trivia one night, we had to identify, like, early mascots. And,

[00:47:03] man, horrifying. Yes. Horrifying. Mickey Mouse early was pretty horrifying. Yeah. Really scary figures. I don't know how they think that these appeal to children and families. It's kind of nuts. Somebody who has seen war put that together. That's like a person who's, who came out of, like, hell on earth. And then they were like, I know what's cheerful, because they don't.

[00:47:33] So when Ty and Van get to the restaurant, they break in, and, you know, Van's like, now this is a crime, and Ty's like, not our first one. Ha ha ha. And then they see that coyote, they hear the coyote catch the rabbit, the rabbit like squeals, and then the coyote sort of stops and looks at them through that broken window, and Ty asks it what it wants, and Van says, I know what it wants, it wants more. And so I guess in that moment to them, the coyote was the symbol, the sort

[00:48:03] of metaphoric representation of the wilderness, and it was giving them a message from the wilderness. And it made me remember in the final episode of season two, when Nat is on the plane after the injection, and she's having those like visions as she's dying, and Lottie, teen Lottie is next to her, and she puts her hand on her heart and says, it's not evil, just hungry. And I was like, if the wilderness did follow them, and there is some kind of supernatural entity that

[00:48:32] is in, you know, the world with them, maybe it's hungry as well, and not necessarily evil. It just is, it doesn't know right from wrong, it only knows hunger and satiation. It's an interesting distinction from evil. Well, and just before that, Ty had gotten the news that Van's cancer isn't metastasizing, and she seems to be healing,

[00:49:02] and takes that to mean that the wilderness, like, it's back, and we hear the wilderness, and it hears us, and she's lighting candles, and Van just looks on as she does that. I wasn't sure what Van's emotion was on her face in that moment, if it was like fear, or wonder, or concern, it was hard to read. Yeah. She had really seemed like she had accepted

[00:49:32] her death. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, injecting a little hope, you could reject that right away. You could be like, I don't, I don't, you know, it probably took her a lot to get to the acceptance phase. Exactly. Yeah. And, and that's really hard to like, try to have hope injected in again, especially when you might tie that in with the other events that have just

[00:50:02] happened. Yeah, it's all very complicated emotionally, and I'm sure that part of it is not wanting to go through the grief of coming to terms with death again. As soon as she lets that hope in, then if it doesn't work out, she's going to go back through the whole cycle. And, but without having hope, it's unlikely that even a medical miracle will save her, right? Because you have to have, there's,

[00:50:32] there's medical studies that say that people's attitude does affect their outcomes, and if you're sure you're going to die or you're, you know, you're resolved to die, it really hurts your chances of healing. I also think it changes the dynamics of the relationship between her and Ty a lot because it's one thing to say, I only have a couple months to live, I love Ty, I'm going to enjoy it while it lasts, but now it's a different thing to say, wait,

[00:51:02] I might be living, there might be a future and does she trust Ty? Because it seems like Ty dumped her previously. Because she didn't fit into Ty's life. And I'm sure now that's a different dynamic. Yeah, it changes everything. Yeah. I thought it was a look of concern. That's what I took. Like, I think Ty mentions the

[00:51:31] waiter was a sacrifice. Yeah, and she seemed okay with it. Mm-hmm. I was a little confused because I thought Natalie was the sacrifice that was going to cure Van. So why did the waiter have to die also? Right. Yeah. Is there something else that's going to come from the sacrifice of Nat? And like, you know, the wilderness also got Kevin. Just greedy wilderness. Right. Well, I kind of think Nat was to replace Shauna because Shauna drew the

[00:52:01] Queen of Hearts. Mm-hmm. And this guy is to save Van. That's what I thought. Yeah, but at the end of that, Lottie looked at Van and said, it got what it wants, you'll see. Implying that Natalie was the sacrifice for Van's healing. But, I mean, it's a potential supernatural entity. Maybe it doesn't have consistent logic.

[00:52:32] Okay. Does anyone have anything else to add on that before we move on? I'll just say, Ty and adult Ty and Van, they just light up the screen. Every scene they're in is amazing. I could watch them forever, even though like, I do think they're callous together in some ways. Yeah. I still love watching them. I agree. They have great chemistry. Yes. I think they're like teenagers. Like, there's this

[00:53:01] glow about them, this teenage love glow that you get from them. And, I don't think they're good for each other. Or, at least, I don't think Ty is good for Van. Yeah. I think Van may be good for Ty but I think Van knows that Ty and her impact on her may not be the right thing. And now she's got to think about this news that she's gotten and what's best to

[00:53:31] do. Because if she has a future, is this the future she wants? At least right now they seem very happy and cuddly on the couch and it's amazing, this glow of young love, even though they're not in their teen years. I do wonder what this means for them. I think it's also like they were each other's first loves and recapturing that is pretty magical.

[00:54:01] It doesn't happen to a lot of people and so they're still in that glowing. Yeah, but I think you're right. You both have said things that I think are really right about how the dynamics are going to change. If Van continues in remission, she's going to have to do a completely different type of calculation about whether she wants to be with Taisa. And one of the things that she's certainly going to wonder is would Taisa want to be with me if she hadn't

[00:54:31] torpedoed her marriage? Everything in her life fell apart and now she's sort of clinging to Van as her entire purpose for existing. And if Van pulls away, Taisa could be capable of some pretty dark stuff. Yeah. Right. And she's known where Van was for a while and she didn't go to see her or try to. In fact, she probably

[00:54:59] I'm only guessing she probably sent Jessica to see where she was. She had to go to Jessica's house and get her files in order to figure out where Van was, but obviously she could have found out at any time. It wasn't hard to find out. Yeah. Yeah, definitely not. So Wendy, what do you have? Back to me. I'll talk a little bit more about Shauna.

[00:55:29] Shauna and Melissa have a little bit of a moment in the old timeline, in the 90s timeline. Shauna is still pretty salty and defensive in general. She starts off pretty standoffish when Melissa approaches her and arrogant, but she does seem to be letting her in a little bit, specifically inviting her to spend time, because I think Melissa is like, okay, I'm just leaving, and then she kind of invites Melissa back. And we

[00:55:59] don't see where that was going to go because we get interrupted by Mari returning, but I'm really excited about this new relationship and I can't wait to see where it goes. But Shauna is just still in a really rotten place. She's critical of everybody. She immediately starts on the attack with Mari. She attacks Nat when Nat kind of cautions maybe we should think about this before we

[00:56:28] go off to hunt Ben. And she, there's just so much anger and rage in Shauna in both timelines really. And when they go hunting off for Ben, I really feel like Shauna was the ringleader of all that. She wasn't going to take no for an answer from anybody. And I don't think it's because she feels like Ben's a threat. I think it's that

[00:56:58] she's still looking for an outlet for the rage. Yeah. And that's she wants to hurt something. And that's an outlet that she feels is justified and she won't have to have any guilt about it because I'm sure that she feels guilt about beating up Lottie. Even though she doesn't admit to it, I'm sure she feels it. Yeah. I think so too. But I think she's got this rage though. I do think that it's built up. I think it kind of started

[00:57:28] with the baby and it's escalated. But I also think that she also, I also think that she has frustrations around her friendship with Jackie and all of that. And then Jackie died and, you know, she's, she's had a lot to deal with, but I don't think she's dealing with it well. And she has no outlet and she has no one. She's not talking to anyone. No,

[00:57:58] I really have high hopes for her and Melissa in the teen timeline that Melissa will be able to give Shauna someone she can trust or rely on. Because one of the things that's really clear is that she feels really isolated. Like you were just saying, she doesn't have anyone she's talking to. And even if Melissa isn't, you know, the perfect person for Shauna,

[00:58:28] just having someone who's like, I think you're special. I think you're the person I want to spend time with. I like being around you. I'll follow you around is going to be healing in some ways. Yeah. Somebody who sees who she is with all of what she's done, but still interested in her, still wanting to get close to her. I mean, that's all they have out there. It's not like you have any other options,

[00:58:58] you know? You don't. And I'm sure Melissa may look at Shauna as being very strong and someone who she may look up to in some way just because Shauna's been through a lot and she's still standing. Even if the edges are frayed, she's still standing. She's still, you know, doing things even though she's disconnected really from everyone else.

[00:59:27] She's powerful. She has huge impact in the group. She has a really large role in the group. She's the one who kicked Jackie out. She's the reason Jackie died. She's angry in a way that's kind of scary. She's violent. She's their butcher. It's power and power is seductive. Yeah. And I still think she also is still really angry that she's not the leader. The way she was last week so sarcastic when she called Natalie my queen

[00:59:57] was like, you don't deserve to be queen. She might as well have said it. And Natalie had this look on her face like, yeah, I know you think you should be the leader instead of me. You're not hiding anything. Right. Everyone knows like we it's so obvious. You might as well have a sign that says it because the world knows and she just there's Shauna angry the whole time and she just doesn't seem to calm

[01:00:27] down. Maybe she will now. I don't know. I'm excited to watch episode four and also terrified to watch episode four because I feel like we could see the end of Coach and I am not really sure I'm ready for that. I agree. I feel like he really came alive in this episode, like became very interesting. And the all yeah, all of these episodes. I've really like that was the one thing I wanted was more

[01:00:56] Ben and I love it. I hope his story lasts more than one more episode. I hope we get a bunch more. Yeah, me too. Yeah. I wonder what some of our listeners think about this. Are they on the Ben train with Wendy? I mean, I'm on the Ben train. Yeah, I feel like a couple of them are. Yeah. I mean, and I think it's like not even so much like we want Ben to live as much as Ben's interest. Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny because one of the

[01:01:26] things I love about this show is I'm always trying to predict. I do the same thing with Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon. Always trying to predict what's going to happen next. I'm almost always wrong. Like I feel like they really I'm like, oh, I didn't see this at all. I didn't think they would go in this direction. And I love that. Like keep surprising me. That's fine. As long as you do it good, I'm okay. Yeah. I don't think the showrunners have disappointed us yet as far as everything seems to be done

[01:01:56] with so much tact and thoughtfulness. Anytime I think they've made a misstep, by the end of that episode it's been revealed that there was a reason they went in that direction and it's more clever than I realized at the time. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Or maybe not even that episode but like you see the point of it. There's no like, and I know I said this felt like a filler episode but there's really no filler.

[01:02:25] Everything has a point to it. You know, it just felt like maybe a setup episode is a better word for it. I would agree with that. I think even going down to Akilah's conversation with Lottie about getting in touch with the wilderness, I wonder if in future episodes we're going to see Lottie continue to push her or if she's going to go running back to Travis and insist that he follow her lead. I mean, the

[01:02:55] way she was with Travis was incredibly forceful. She wasn't super forceful with Akilah but I can see her pushing harder than she did. I mean, she's been working on Travis for months. Right. And she seems to be floundering a little that she can't get what she wants through herself and she thought she was getting it through Travis and now that's not working. So she seems a little frustrated

[01:03:24] and out of sorts with all that. Yeah. She's definitely not happy that she seems to have lost that connection that she had. And she's really impatient about it. I think Shauna too, going back to Shauna, she made comments about Melissa in the last episode. She said to her something about her personality. It seems like you have a personality.

[01:03:53] Like she had disregarded her before. And in this episode she says something like you're not going to turn out to be boring, are you? Like she's looking for someone who isn't just normal. She wants someone that is going to be interesting and intriguing to her to talk to. Because again, we know she's super intelligent. We know she got into Brown. She's, I guess, trying to be intrigued

[01:04:22] or talk to someone who actually provokes her to have thoughts in her head. You know, and have actual intelligent conversations. I think that may be what she's hoping to get out of this new friendship with Melissa. I think I'm going to borrow Shauna's line and send it to every guy I talk to on the dating apps. You're not going to turn out to be fucking boring, are you? And see how they respond. And Jen kind of smiled at that.

[01:04:52] I think she liked that. Yeah. I mean, I said Jen, I meant Melissa. I don't know why I did that. I hope that Melissa turns out to be interesting as well, right? Yes. Yeah. She seemed a little shy, but she did sit down and join Shauna. She's definitely intrigued, fascinated, drawn to. I'm starting to wonder if Shauna's going to be the new cult leader. I guess

[01:05:22] just remember when Lottie and was it Lottie was feeding a heart to a tree trunk and was it Van and Misty were her minions kind of season one. I'm starting to wonder if we're going to get this again, not as blatant, but more of a one at a time thing because now Melissa has kind of like really connected with her and Misty gave her the information about Coach that Shauna hasn't really mentioned yet. Yeah. She certainly seems to have

[01:05:51] the balls to like take it if no one stops her. Yeah. And I just have a feeling that a reckoning is going to come. It's definitely going to come. And we, I mean, you get the impression they haven't killed and eaten anyone else. So, okay, that's good that they're able to live off things, but let's see what happens next. I don't, I mean, obviously they do it again

[01:06:21] because we see that in that very first opening sequence, we see pick, I mean, we get pick girl. So we know they're going to do it again. I'm wondering what drives them to it. Is it another hungry winter or does it, is it because of the beliefs that they've developed that the wilderness wants sacrifices? Yeah. Like a sacrifice and consumption part of a

[01:06:51] ritual that they've developed on their own, their own private religion that they don't practice, but I feel like they're moving back to that. The only one who has a gun is Nat, right? That's the only gun. I think so. For now, I mean, she has it. And I guess they have the axe, too. There was an axe. And Shauna has that big knife. Yeah. But they don't have a lot of weapons, but they make weapons out of

[01:07:21] sticks and rocks and stuff, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're very handy, these girls. Like those houses they constructed look really good. Yeah, they do. And remember the masks they made for Doomcoming? They were so beautiful and elaborate. And the hair pieces that they made and everything, like, they're very crafty. Well, I feel like we've seen, too, the beginnings of their cannibal council outfits. Yeah, those white capes and

[01:07:51] hoods. Yeah. And I still believe that the antler queen has hair that's on It does look like, it does look like hanks of hair. It looks like, yeah, human hair. So. Gross. I'm wondering how we, how do we get to this point? I'm, I'm excited to find out. Yeah. If this show came out all at once, there's no way I could podcast on it. Yeah. Not any way,

[01:08:21] because I would want to watch the whole thing within two days. So there's no way I would be able to podcast. So it's probably a good thing that it's coming out the way it is once a week. Because I have no restraint when it comes to some TV series. I would rip through this one the way that like I ripped through Squid Game and the way I ripped through Stranger Things. Just like I gotta consume the whole thing. I usually don't do that, but if something's really got me, that's how I know.

[01:08:51] Because I usually do not watch more than one episode in a day. I just don't have it in me. But like Squid Games, the last couple episodes of this most recent season, I couldn't stop. I was up up till two in the morning on a weeknight. And that's not something I normally do, but I couldn't, I think I watched three in a row. I feel like you got to episode four and that was it. It's like, okay, no, I must finish this.

[01:09:21] And also the way they cleverly kind of cliffhangered so you had to watch the beginning of the next one and then, oh, I'm already in, I might as well finish it. And then it just continued. Yeah, I agree. You know, it was too much. So, I want to talk a little bit about the music because I did take a few notes. Beginning of the episode we get I'm too sexy, but not very much of it, just a little bit. And then we get, oh, hold on,

[01:09:51] not too much of it. And then we get Mari's version that she's created in the cave. She's too sexy for the cave, too sexy for this rope, too sexy for the rocks, too sexy to be murdered. And then she starts with, I'm a hostage. And then it trails off. I'm sure Ben's been enjoying that. Yeah. I mean, it's pretty hilarious. It is. And she's not belting it. It's just

[01:10:20] really kind of quiet. Too sexy for this cave. Too sexy for this cave. It's really kind of quiet and it just trails off. I already mentioned Nookie by Limp Bizkit, which was Shauna and Misty's little magical ride with no breaks. Then we get Make Your Own Kind of Music by Mama Cass Elliot. Yeah. When Shauna comes home and Callie and Lottie are making the dinner for her. Such a perfect song for

[01:10:50] what Lottie is trying to do. Like, you're so special. You should be free. Like, be free and make your own kind of music like I do. It's just part of the seduction, but it's the perfect song. Phena Barbatal for you. Yep. And then the other one I have written down is the outro for this episode was Cold by The Cure. Such a powerful song. Yeah. So good. So I felt like again, I think I mentioned last week,

[01:11:20] why is there no Emmy for use of music? There needs to be. I can think of several series that put a lot of effort into making music its own character, and this is definitely one of them. Definitely. The music is fantastic on this show. Always. There's always when you dig into the lyrics, there's always things that jump out as being so appropriate to the show that it seems like the music was written for it, but of

[01:11:49] course the music predates the show by so many years. It's amazing. Yep. In another lifetime, I would really like that job. Like music supervisor? I think I'm good at it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I think I feel really good at it. I know a couple of people, sort of friends of friends, that do it, and they are very happy with their lives. It's like their favorite thing in the whole world is to be like, this is cool music, you should listen to this one, and that's their job. Mm-hmm.

[01:12:19] Very cool. All right, Penny, we are back at you. I want to talk about the shoplifting. I have always been sort of fascinated by stories of wealthy people who shoplift and the compulsion that they feel to do it, so I spent a little time Googling around and reading various psychology articles about why people shoplift and there are a lot of different psychologists with theories

[01:12:48] and there's one whole school of thought that talks about kleptomania and people who have a compulsion to steal in general, people tend to be more impulsive. What we saw with Lottie was that she was planned, right? She scoped out the store, she knew where the security guards were, and I think that the shoplifting for her, and a lot of these articles agreed on this, is a way to get a dopamine hit

[01:13:18] when you're feeling numb or a way to get a feeling of accomplishment when you're feeling not like yourself or you're depressed or you're just feeling out of sorts, that the high of stealing, the danger, the risk, the need to be smart about how you do it is a coping mechanism, not unlike cutting that people do when they have an emotion that they need to get some kind of

[01:13:47] relief from, and so they do this strong act. By inducting Kali into shoplifting, she's doing something that groomers do, which is where they try to get the target to break a small law first. Bend a rule, lie to your parents, cheat on a test, something small, and then it shows that they can manipulate that person and they can lure them into doing bigger and bigger things wrong that they wouldn't normally do. And, you know, Lottie's

[01:14:17] making it fun, it's a glamorous dress that she's telling Callie she would look good in, and it's all part of this seduction. And I went down a little bit of a rabbit hole. I had forgotten about the whole Winona Ryder shoplifting scandal that happened, and a ton of articles came out around that time talking about this phenomenon that there are a lot of shoplifters who are wealthy people, and they do it for a thrill and also because they feel like they're entitled to those objects because

[01:14:46] they could pay for them, so it's not that big of a crime. It's a real backwards way of thinking, of being like... Well, I would think if you were ultra-wealthy, material items would start to mean less. Like, material items mean something to us because we don't have an unlimited supply of money, so maybe if you're stealing it, it has more value. Yeah, you earned it in a way with

[01:15:16] your cleverness and your savvy. And we know that Lottie did this as a teenager, right? She confesses it in episode two of the first season, and they're all around the campfire, and she says she has all these TJ Maxx bucks that she doesn't need. And it's interesting to me that we saw her do it in this super bougie store with a dress that costs over $1,500 and that she made Callie carry the dress out. She put it in Callie's bag.

[01:15:46] So Callie had to be the shoplifter. And the look on Callie's face, Lottie was like, follow me, and then she walks out and Callie takes a moment to process and it goes from sort of like shock, fear, trepidation, and then intrigue, joy. And she sort of grins and then turns to follow Lottie out. And I'm like, oh no, Lottie has her hooked. That was the hook. And then the next scene we see with them, they're dancing and singing joyfully together in the kitchen

[01:16:14] and Callie has that necklace on and it's just, there's no way that Shawna kicking Lottie out of the house is going to result in Lottie and Callie not spending time together. Like, they will find a way. Yeah. Yeah. I thought the shoplifting thing was really a nice touch on the story for a wealthy character. Yeah, and I think that what Shawna does next is definitely going to determine

[01:16:44] how much Callie is or continues to be intrigued by Lottie. Shawna is going to have to tell Callie some truth. Yeah. truth that Callie actually believes is true. And enough of it that Callie starts to believe Lottie really is dangerous. And I don't know how Shawna's

[01:17:13] going to do it. Yeah. Because she's going to really have to be honest with her daughter even more than she has been. And I don't know if she will. Because if she's not, it's only going to push Callie to go see Lottie. Because Lottie's got a carrot over her head. Like, Lottie can tell her things. Lottie can give her the information she wants. If her mother doesn't want to do it, then

[01:17:43] yeah, she'll find it another way. She'll go. She will. So, Wendy. I really only have notes left. Okay, well, my last point, then, and this is the last of what I have, is the fever dream that we get with the gas leak. Did you leave it to last because it was your biggest one, or because it was your smallest one?

[01:18:14] I'm just curious. I left it to last because I thought it was going to come up before. It's interesting that it didn't. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't it? I really thought one of you was going to bring it up, and so you didn't. So I'm like, okay, well, last thing. Because, okay, I wouldn't say it was my littlest one. It's just the thing that I wasn't really sure what I thought of it or how

[01:18:43] I felt about it. Yeah. Me too. I have a lot of notes about it, but I don't have a cohesive thought. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, and I'm hoping that if we talk it out, that maybe I'll come up with, like, or formulate a thought about it. But basically, they decide once they get inside that there are two ways to go about it, so they split up. And Shauna, Van, and Akilah go

[01:19:13] one way. One minute they are standing together, and then the next minute, Shauna disappears, and then Van looks over at Akilah, and Akilah is gone. So they're all three, I think. I don't know if they passed out at that moment, and then they went into this brain, whatever. Right, and Van seemed the more lethargic of all of them. Yeah. So I thought

[01:19:43] maybe that's why Van just totally passed out. So her perception was that they were all gone, but it was because she was passed out. Right. And so there are multiple things that happen. Each one has their own dream state thing. Shauna is floating in water, and it looks like the water that they had been floating in back, like, when the plane went over and exploded, it was over this body of water. the lake that's near the cabin.

[01:20:13] Yeah. And she's floating in the water, and she hears someone yelling mommy, mommy, mommy, and there's a little boy on the side. And I'm wondering, is this a near-death experience? Because she had a boy that died. So she decides to swim to the little boy, and then she gets pulled under. I thought that was pretty cut and dry. Yeah, straightforward, but so pretty. The shot overhead

[01:20:42] with Shauna is like a teeny-tiny in the center of this big blue lake, and the white dress, it was so beautiful. Gorgeous. Van is, basically opens a door, and then she's in the cabin in front of a fire, but then a coal or a piece of something flies out of the fire and sets the room on fire, and then she's not in the chair, she's actually like in an airplane seat, and arms are like grabbing her,

[01:21:12] and that took me back to the plane crash, and how the plane was on fire, and Shauna and Jackie didn't go back to get her. Like, she had to escape on her own. I mean, the wilderness has been trying to burn Van for a while. Yeah, she's had three near-misses with death by fire. So I could see how that would be forefront in her mind. Yeah. And then the third one is Akilah, and this one was very trippy, but also kind of like,

[01:21:42] huh, okay. She's in the woods, and she eats these berries, and then there's a talking llama, and she also sees chickens and goats, and she's so happy to be around the animals, and the llama tells her to be careful because they bite, and everything with teeth bites, everything will defend itself, and I'm wondering, is the gas leak, the cave, defending itself from these girls? Yeah. I don't know. That was just a random thing.

[01:22:12] And then it goes on to say it can be easy or it can be hard, but either way it's going to get what it wants. And then she sinks through the floor and opens a door, and... And then they're all in that classroom. Mm-hmm. And this is where it goes real, like, oh. Because all three of them can see the man with no eyes who's wheeling a cart by, but

[01:22:42] Jackie is there, and they're wearing their soccer uniforms, and Jackie is playing with one of those snap bracelets that you snap it, and it goes around. Yep, my kids had those. Mm-hmm. And Akilah tries it, and it's fine. She's able to make it work, nothing, no problems. Then Van tries it, but it actually cuts her arm, and so she throws it, and Jackie gets it, and just looks at her,

[01:23:11] and makes a snide comment, like, it... That happens sometimes. That happens sometimes. It's just a cut, you don't have to be such a baby. And then she flings it at Shauna, and it goes around her neck, and it's cutting her, and you see this close-up of Shauna's eyes, and, like, death. And throughout all this, Lottie is in the room as the teacher, and she's written something on the blackboard that's basically

[01:23:40] of all the ways to lose a person, death is the kindest. And so... I noticed some stuff about the classroom. The floor had a drain in it. That was a very specific choice. When Van throws the bracelet, and then Jackie picks it up off the floor, there's a drain in the floor right next to where the bracelet landed. So is this a classroom, or is this like a slaughter room? What is this room that they're in? And then

[01:24:09] there's one lonely poster on the wall for Hamlet. It seems symbolic, but I don't know of what. And at one point, Lottie says you shouldn't play with dangerous things. She also says to Akilah that if she can't help Shauna, they'll all die. Yes. And so again, I feel like there's this potential for Shauna to be a cult leader, or some sort of leader in this group.

[01:24:40] Because we know she has Melissa, and now you have potentially Akilah, and then Misty kind of like being friendly to Shauna. So I'm interested how this is going to play out. As usual, how this is going to play out. Because they don't just throw things in there for no reason. I don't know if this is going to end up applying to

[01:25:11] some sort of vote they take about Coach, or if it's going to play into a mutiny, where they overthrow Natalie. Natalie's defense, despite some of her flaws in leadership, they have stayed alive, they haven't killed anyone else, and they seem to be thriving in their little community. So I'm not sure. Yeah, I'm curious to see where it all goes. I'm curious about something.

[01:25:41] It was so hard to see in these scenes. All the cave scenes were kind of frustrating because they were literally dark, and it was just really hard to see what was going on. A lot of the shots were just close-ups of people's faces while they were crawling. But when they were right before the candle flickered with the blue light from the gas, and they were in that one cave where they were able to stand up, were there drawings on the wall? It looked like it. I couldn't tell, and when I tried to pause,

[01:26:11] I couldn't see it. I did not notice that. Yeah, just slowly like a glimpse of what looked like drawings on the wall. But it was like medium gray on dark gray. It was so hard to see, and wet, and shiny, and glare. It was weird. I want to go back and watch scenes from when Javi was in the cave so that I can see if they notice anything then. We didn't ever see him

[01:26:41] in the cave. We saw Ben find it, find the cave, with all the little bones. I remember at the time I was like, what are those rabbit bones? And now I'm like, ew, was that all bat bones? Are they all eating bat? Javi was eating bats. And obviously Ben was eating bat. I was hoping they were rabbits. That sounds much better. That sounds disgusting. I mean, how much meat would a bat give you? It would be like a couple bites, right? Yeah. No. Yeah. And I guess

[01:27:11] you could eat the wings, but it doesn't sound good. No. Definitely not. Definitely not. But it kind of surprised me like if animals are so abundant, why isn't he out there getting other stuff? Yeah, I don't know. He's hiding from them. We saw that he's been setting traps, right? He can't do other kinds of hunting because of his legs,

[01:27:41] so he's trying. And he might be hiding from them, too. Yeah. Which makes me think and takes me back to the burning of the cabin and who may have done it. And in thinking about it, this is what I've come up with. Taisa could have done it as dark Ty in a fit of like, you know, not really knowing what's going on. Or Lottie.

[01:28:10] Or Lottie could have done it not to kill them, but to push them in the direction she wants them to go. Or Misty because she's insane. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's still open. But I'm thinking at this point, I don't believe it was Coach that did it. Now we may find something. Less and less. Yeah. We may find out that we're wrong. Yeah. But I

[01:28:40] don't know. I mean, maybe he'll even admit to it. Who knows? I'm ready though. Yeah. Me too. So it looks like we're all done with points. Penny, do you have any notes? Just a couple of things about Lottie. She's like always wearing silk and lots of jewelry and dramatic silhouettes. I really enjoy her fashion. I don't think I could carry it off, but I enjoy it. And she was so mean about Shauna's pancakes.

[01:29:09] Like, oh, there was so much lard in my food at the psych ward. And I was like, there's not lard in pancakes. You're just basically dissing Shauna's food. But okay. Right. Leave her alone. She can put some chocolate chips in them and we'll all eat them. So, okay. Wendy. When you talked about it, Daphne, when Shauna has her fever

[01:29:38] dream and she sees the little boy on the shore, at one point you hear this creepy disembodied mommy, mommy. and to me, that sounded exactly like the same thing from Poltergeist. Did anybody notice that? I didn't make the connection. I mean, to the point where I think it might have been the same snippet. I am gonna go and listen to both.

[01:30:09] I'm gonna listen to both. I wanna know. I was surprised you hadn't because when I heard it the first time, that's what, and again, Poltergeist has scarred me. So, it is in my memory a lot. I owe many nightmares to Poltergeist. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So that was the one note that I had. And then the other note I have is just about Misty, adult Misty. Like, nothing keeps adult Misty down.

[01:30:38] No matter what has happened, she wakes up perky and ready to face the day. And there's something you have to admire in that. You really do. I wish I could wake up that happy every Oh my goodness, I wish I was that resilient. Because Misty is fucking resilient. She really is. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she doesn't feel like she has any friends and she's pushed away Walter who seemed to care about her. I do

[01:31:08] wonder if she really is at the point now that she's gonna, I don't know, break down? But she's also survived all this time. So I feel like she's resilient. Yeah. And I think it's gonna take more than that to get rid of Walter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I will, for our next episode, try to go through the opening credits and pull out some of those

[01:31:37] little scenes. I started two for this one and I just ran out of time because I had to watch this one three times in order to get all my notes pulled together. There's one snip that I'm particularly interested in. It's an overhead shot and the girls are moving what looks like a wooden door or like a cover. Yes. Something. It looks too skinny to be covering the

[01:32:07] pit, but I'm not sure that that's not what it is. I don't know. I feel like it's too skinny. It's like, I don't know, maybe they put the couch in there. Or maybe it's a different pit that they found. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they may imprison it. They may choose not to kill him. They may decide to imprison him in that pit. Oh, that would be terrifying. Yes. It would. So we'll be back in a few minutes with some listener feedback.

[01:32:57] And we're back with our listener buzz for this week. Wendy, do you want to take the first one? Sure. This is from Adrienne Lyles. She writes, Hey there, guys. I want to start by saying I love the podcast. I am just as excited to listen to y'all talk about the episode as I am to watch new episodes of our favorite cannibals navigating life in the wilderness. Thank you. Thank you. I wanted to touch on the Shauna and Melissa kiss. I'm not

[01:33:27] surprised by it. I'm surprised we don't have more of the girls linking up. It's like prison, gay for the stay, straight for the gate. You get a bunch of girls and lock them away together and they start seeking attention and intimacy from the women around them. I think things are going to get a whole lot gayer this season and I am here for it. Thank you so much. I hope you're right. I never heard that gay for the stay, straight for the gate. That's hilarious. Makes sense. All right,

[01:33:57] we have a voicemail from Daniela. Hello, podcastica. It's Daniela, your bestie, the misty to your Natalie. Well, that's actually not as cute anymore now that Natalie's dead. Ooh, that misty actually killed Natalie, so that's not. Yeah, we'll move on. Anyways, I don't know if you're doing feedback episodes. I hope you are. I need to know how these girls survived the winter. We fast forwarded too much and I don't know how they survived. Their cabin, their shelter was burning down.

[01:34:26] This is the dead of winter. How do they not freeze to death like Jackie? I hope that there will be a way to, I don't know, a double flashback. We need to know what happened. Will we have answers? What happened the day after this happened? I was sure and very convinced that coach burned down the cabin. In fact, I vividly remembered him being in that scene, like hiding behind a tree, watching the cabin burn down. So when he said he didn't know it was burned down, I went back and rewatched that episode or that scene. And no, he was not in fact there. I completely made it up.

[01:34:56] I am just as delusional as him, apparently. Speaking of that, he was arguing with himself in the corner. Maybe he has developed a second personality and perhaps did that personality burn down the cabin? I guess we'll find out. I'm convinced Mari is definitely Pit Girl. I mean, the episode's called It Girl. I feel like they're telling us something there. And I mean, it's definitely the same Pit, but I'm assuming she will in fact be Pit Girl. Okay, thoughts on this adult Van and Taisa scene

[01:35:26] with the server. They basically got this guy killed. That is a sacrifice. They gave up this man's life. So will there be a reward from that for giving it what it wants, as Lottie would say? They have sacrificed this man's life. Will good come from it? Like maybe Van getting healthier, getting cured, I don't know, living longer. Will they be rewarded for the sacrifice that they made to it? Shauna, she's losing her fucking mind,

[01:35:56] young Shauna. She's getting really scary and really crazy, and I think we're about to see truly how unhinged adult Shauna really is. I think we've been a little bit naive about just how crazy she is, and we're about to watch young Shauna go through it all and really show us the madness. Okay, my fucked up moment of the week is by far Callie and Lottie having a slumber party and braiding each other's hair. What? Last time we saw these two,

[01:36:26] Callie shot her. Lottie was trying to murder Callie's mother, and now we're braiding each other's hair? This is crazy. Lottie is definitely going to try to manipulate this girl. She's talked about how powerful she is. She will influence her and she's going to get her to that means she had a cult. She knows what she's doing, and she's going to do it to Callie, and let's be honest, Callie's going to fall for it. Eager to see where that goes. All right, I gotta stop talking. You guys said keep it under two minutes. Bye! Bye, besties! Thank you so much,

[01:36:56] and I wanted to give a little explanation about the podcast this season. We received the first four episodes ahead of time with what we call screeners, so the good thing about that is that when the episode comes out, we're gonna drop that episode right then and there, so you can listen to our podcast right away as soon as you finish the episode. The bad parts of that is that there won't be feedback in that episode because we're doing it ahead

[01:37:25] of time before everybody else is watched, and this year, just with perfect timing, so many really great podcastica shows have dropped all at the same time. White Lotus, Cobra Kai, this show, Handmaid's Tale is coming out right after this, so that it's really gonna be hard for us to do individual feedback episodes. We haven't ruled it out completely, maybe, and we'll probably do one definitely for the

[01:37:55] finale, but that's where we're at, and sorry about that because I know everybody likes the feedback episodes, but it really is just a matter of the bandwidth for all of us. But we so appreciate your feedback, so keep it coming, and we are gonna play it. All right, our next one comes from Awilda, I hope that I am pronouncing that correctly, please let us know, who says, hello, first time long time, so welcome, thanks for joining the conversation. A couple of

[01:38:24] things that I noticed, when Shauna was homeschooling Callie, the picture above their head looked like Lottie's compound with the mountains overlooking the lake, all right, now I have to go back and look at that episode. There was someone watching Callie that appeared to have blonde hair with a female silhouette, all right, gotta look for that. I'd like to know what kind of allergy medicine Callie gave to Misty that knocked her out so quickly. Sounds like good stuff. Lastly, who is going to get the expired doggy antibiotics?

[01:38:56] I don't know. I don't know any of the answers to those questions, so we'll look into it. Thanks for writing. And we have a voicemail from Gloria. Hi, guys, it's Gloria from CLMS. This is for Yellow Jackets, and we're back. Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, So glad it's about frickin' time. It's been 84 years. No, it's only been two, but Jesus, it feels like it, right?

[01:39:26] Okay, so this is just for the first episode. Did I say that already? Oh my God. I know Misty is grieving and everything, but does anyone else think she may have been in love with Natalie? Drunk, grieving Misty is a hot mess, and I kind of love it. I feel bad for her, of course, but yeah, I kind of love it. Teen Shauna and Mari are arch enemies. Oh my God, these girls need so much therapy. And Lottie, Jesus, drugging Travis is not a very

[01:39:55] friendly-like thing to do. He was seriously tripping on those shrooms. Young Lottie is basically just a drug dealer now. Drug dealer in the wilderness. Ooh, how fun. Callie is really going through it, and I'm so surprised they haven't focused on finding her a therapist. I mean, she keeps it real, but oh my God, I am enjoying the Shauna and Callie time though. It was good to see them bonding over that video, but probably unhealthy too in the same way.

[01:40:25] I was excited to see adult Lottie at the door. Can't believe they started six weeks later instead of picking up right where they left off. I'm glad she's out though, and like Misty said, hopefully medicated. Um, and Ben has gone insane, clearly, either that or someone else is with him. I think that they very well could be because I never thought he started that fire. um, or he could just be crazy. Yeah. Or both. Um,

[01:40:55] one of my favorite lines, one of my favorite lines of this first episode was Shauna and Jeff in the church. Holy fucking Christ. Church Shauna, Jesus. They were a riot. I love them so much. So good to be back. And I will leave another for episode two. Bye. Buzz, buzz, buzz. That was great. So our next one comes from Darcy. Love the

[01:41:25] pod. Love the show. Quick point. The name of the restaurant was Paz de May, which means soulless. Not a lady would be Paz un de May. And I hope I pronounced that right. Amelie, you'll have to tell me. Thanks for your pods. I listened to just so many of them. Darcy. Thank you, I appreciate the correction because I never studied French. And I did. And I don't know any of it. I have a minor in French.

[01:41:55] Okay, we have another voicemail from our good friend Anwen. Hello Yellow Jackets WTF. I'm so glad the show is back. I'm so glad you're back. I'm so glad to be back with you. Just watched the first two episodes and have a few thoughts. I really, really loved how every season the actors just get better and better they're amazing to start with. But I just love how incredibly matched up the young

[01:42:25] actors and the adult actors are. And especially I noticed in these couple of episodes how much young Shauna sounds like adult Shauna and how much adult Van sounds and acts like young Van. I thought I that was really great. The scene in the kitchen with Misty and Kelly and Lottie was hilarious and I just thought the way they were all acting was

[01:42:55] just wild. And when you actually look at those three and go right now Misty is the sane one that was quite unbelievable. And the final thing that I had to say was it just broke my heart to see back in the woods Lottie making Travis take the mushrooms and realising that she was actually the one who was responsible for his addiction

[01:43:24] his whole life. It just oh my god it broke my heart it was horrible. Anyway the show is fantastic awesome kind of cliffhanger at the end. A new adult character that we're going to get introduced to and I thought the whole thing was great. Can't wait for more. Yay bye. That's interesting because I never really thought about that in terms of his addiction but that's really a great point Anwen.

[01:43:54] I never really thought about it like that. We saw Natalie doing drugs before the plane crash but we had no indication Travis. I think she's right those could be the first time he's ever had anything. And look at the impact it had on his post crash life once they were rescued. Well our next voicemail is from Steve Brown. Hello Yellow Jackets WTF.

[01:44:24] This is Steve and this is going to be for season 3 episode 2. I love it. Picking up right where we left off Mari screaming and coach Jesus Christ shut up. Oh pull it together that's what he told her. Oh that scene relocating her knee herself. Oh I've had that done. It was 30 years ago and it was so much pain. Can't watch the opening credits anymore. I just can't. Misty volunteers to go with Natalie and Natalie is like Shauna you're going

[01:45:00] she's got a golden microphone is that like a podcast award. Um and you might want to clean up the glass off the floor. Misty waking up and of course Walter has the ultimate hangover breakfast for her. How long have Walter and Misty been together that they have a Wednesday ritual of cleaning Caligula's cage. That was hard. We have

[01:45:30] reference there. Ben claims he didn't burn the cabin down but don't I remember wasn't he the one that barred the doors closed? Yes Misty you're there to babysit Lottie. Not an intervention. Oh and Travis is tripping on mushrooms again with Lottie and he's screaming. A cashless restaurant I guess there's some out there but yeah Ty you're giving her your

[01:46:00] to be fair we're all afraid of your mom great line by Lottie. Oh that's not a good sign when the guys you're meeting with see someone else and go after their meeting sorry Jeff the face painting on Misty what is she a cat what wait and that quickly Misty got her makeup

[01:46:30] okay Ty found herself a church of something yes Shauna Misty can't pick up the phone right now because she's been knocked out okay that's weird what was on that phone that Shauna just found and who came into the bathroom behind her and Shauna just tanked this meeting for her husband oh and she gave Travis a little duck therapy is that what that is okay so did Travis really hear something in the woods or is he just throwing Ty under the bus oh and Misty just threw up all over the kitchen counter because she's drunk Shauna do you have a drinking problem the

[01:47:00] Misty and Walter relationship is just weird and apparently she just kicked him out well Akilah's the one with the ducks right now Mari's complaining but Ben is giving her hot chocolate aw who's this girl that Shauna is meeting in the woods and now she's calling the restaurant asking about the phone it's Melissa according to the closed captioning oh okay Shauna and Melissa okay I have no idea what the next episode is going to bring wow it's always a

[01:47:37] roller or kitties or whatever but once you put them on your face they they're not the right shape and so they just look like monsters agreed yes we have a one line feedback from Alicia Stout who says so we have the pit now OMG one step closer to

[01:48:08] mentioned my top thoughts and moments present day Shauna is horrible I'm glad her and Callie had a bonding moment and I do love she told the douche couch by what a douche he is but she truly cares about no one else but herself and I'm sad for Jeff all he wanted was Shauna to support him for one night and nope she couldn't even do that I don't think I could hang on to that relationship if I

[01:48:47] was that just an unfortunate accident give me Lauren Ambrose singing karaoke all day long that was glorious 90s Lottie crossed all kinds of boundaries with Travis I don't think she killed present day Travis but I believe the things she did with him during the wilderness timeline had a lot to do with what caused him to make the choice he made that caused his death Natalie sucks as a leader and

[01:49:21] I Okay Coach Ben's story was my favorite Cool to see how he survived on his own and I'm still holding out hope he survives and we see him in the present day I wonder the person he's talking to underground is that possibly the same thing lastly and my apologies for going on so long but who or what did Ty see on the street before boning Van

[01:49:51] against the wall and is that also the same thing Shauna saw while the ladies were at the bar having drinks after Nat's memorial she saw the no-eyed man but yep Shauna just had I think like a vibe that someone was watching her I don't think she actually saw anybody yeah and it's interesting that Becky brought up Javi because Javi saying

[01:50:21] he had a friend and things like that now with the poison in the tree was that what was happening I love they're still walking that line of everything having a rational and that's what I think I was upset about when they started with the fever dreams I was like oh I

[01:51:01] okay Keisha Cathy says it's always the last ten minutes of the episodes it's true they get you they do every time Lisa Spurr says oh my god oh my god those episodes were insane and totally worth waiting for I can't wait to

[01:51:31] we are allowed to talk about the episode like the next day yeah so um so Monday yeah so let us know if you need that is it if you go to the podcast facebook group there are chats that you can search like you could just type in yellow jackets and find that chat yeah and I think we decided that it drops on Friday on streaming um

[01:52:01] so it's game to talk about it on Saturday to talk about it and when we put up content yeah and and people will like talk to each other in those posts as well which we welcome our friend Amelie who's from Quebec um she gave us some feedback about the episode and we asked her if we

[01:52:31] could use it on the podcast and she so kindly said yes she says hey was just listening to the podcast so great to have you back with the show I just wanted to share that what is actually written on the matches Ty picks up at the restaurant is Pazdam which translates to no soul but I understand how you could read Pazdam very close also summers can get hot in Canada she's talking to me

[01:53:02] I believe you I swear Amelie I do believe you summers can especially if you are closer to the United States border which I think they probably are that's interesting also anybody thought that maybe Ben is also having dissociative issues and that one of his personalities did burn the shack it's possible no that yeah I

[01:53:40] filmed it just seemed warmer I guess and I don't know about Ben I mean is he who is he talking to is he talking to his boyfriend still like is he still like envisioning him there or did even though the gas the gas probably isn't as thick there is a little bit of the gas causing that and Javi also was talking to someone so yeah I'm not sure thanks everybody

[01:54:10] for all the awesome feedback please keep it coming alright that's our show thanks for listening everyone next up Yellowjacket season three episode four twelve angry girls and one drunk Travis I

[01:54:41] well-known play and movie so this makes me even more certain there's going to be a trial yes you're right if you want to write in or send us a voice message about it you can find all of our contact information at podcastica dot com and while you're there be sure to check out some of our other shows a little something for everyone if you like Star Wars if you like horror movies if you like Stranger Things if you like Game of Thrones House of

[01:55:11] the Dragon Wheel of Time Cobra Kai White Lotus Great British There are so many shows that we cover on podcastica I guarantee you'll find one that you're interested in Have either of you watched White Lotus yet? Yes Oh I haven't I'm dying to but this is sucking all my but I think this weekend I will I have not seen a single episode but I've heard that I would like it I love it I

[01:55:41] binged that last year yeah you would like it it's complicated characters yeah and compelling the writing the acting is so good yeah okay then that sounds right up my alley yeah yeah yeah all right that's our show thanks for listening FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE