46: "12 Angry Girls and 1 Drunk Travis" (S3E4)

[00:00:02] 47. how fucking dare you how dare you set fire to the cabin with us inside after everything that i have done for you after everything i did to keep you from killing yourself

[00:00:25] how could you do this to me i thought that we were friends i wouldn't hurt you misty yeah right i didn't burn down your cabin prove it yeah with a high school mock trial at the end of

[00:00:52] the fucking world i'm in a jail with birds misty you know that this whole trial is just a farce i've already lost hey everybody welcome to our podcast i'm wendy and i'm penny and i'm daphne

[00:01:15] and this is yellow jackets wtf episode 46 this week we'll be covering season three episode four 12 angry girls and one drunk travis all right what are your overall thoughts about this penny um i have mixed feelings about this episode there were things about it that i really really

[00:01:41] liked and there were things about it that i thought were were not great um but uh it moved the story forward and there were some nice twists so it's not like i'm gonna give up on yellow jackets ever just wasn't i'd give it like a three out of five stars how about you daph um i actually really

[00:02:04] liked this episode um it was kind of there were some really polarizing points to it and it left me with more questions specific questions about shauna in both timelines um but i really liked it because it i think part of it is because it was polarizing because it didn't move the story along

[00:02:30] and it made me uncomfortable like watching the trial and then the aftermath of the trial um really got to me and then the end of the episode i was not expecting and so i'm like okay so um who could have done that so my brain was like working overtime and i sat with the episode for three or

[00:02:58] four days before i watched it again because i didn't want to i didn't want that great i needed to dissect it in my head first in order to do that i needed you know i had the one watch i was able to percolate on it before i watched it again to really figure out you know where do we go from here

[00:03:24] because there's a lot of possibilities and i'm excited to watch the next episode but i'm also not excited because something bad could really happen and i'm not sure i'm ready for that so we'll see it's yellow jackets yeah something bad will happen always i liked it a lot more on the second watch

[00:03:48] i liked this episode it's definitely not one of my favorites but i i do think on the second episode on the second watch i i realized how um impactful the events were going to be on the future i was also pretty excited that this episode was about a trial and we're so lucky to have penny here who's an attorney

[00:04:14] yes oh yay give us an insider's view of things so i thought that was really interesting and i know you saw it coming but i silly i didn't see it coming um and i thought it was very interesting that the prosecutor of this little trial in the wilderness also becomes you know an attorney and i believe she was a prosecutor yeah i think she was a criminal attorney yeah look that up yeah

[00:04:43] so i thought that was interesting too all right should we move into our fucked up moment of the week yeah penny um melissa telling shauna like you have power and the the sort of leering way that she was looking at shauna throughout the whole jury deliberation and like the voting and and then

[00:05:11] after that she had this hungry sort of creepy look on her face about how shauna is powerful and i agree with her that shauna is powerful but the way she said it and how excited she was about it was messed up and then bolstering her you know and lottie saw that and i feel like something's gonna happen there there's some yeah yeah something interesting happening with lottie and shauna and melissa

[00:05:38] messed up messed up how about you daphne um kind of tacked onto pennies it was what happened just before that shauna's like commandeering of the jury vote and despite the fact that six people were voting

[00:06:02] to acquit she took control and almost forced them in some way to change their vote yep that i mean yes that's incredibly powerful and shows that she has a lot of power i think they've been very lucky to be

[00:06:22] under natalie because natalie has ruled with more um calm demeanor um she has a different style of leadership i don't think shauna if shauna becomes the leader which i'm thinking after what happened with natalie knowing about coach being out there i'm concerned that we're going to move away from this

[00:06:51] tranquil little place that they've built right back into doing some sort of ritual killing and with the first killing being coach ben mm-hmm i mean it certainly appears that's where we're moving towards but this show does surprise us and i like that i mean yes i agree constantly i'm hoping i'm trying to be

[00:07:18] hopeful but it doesn't look good for him right now especially because of travis that drawing yeah um yeah my fucked up moment of the week was in what fucked up black mirror twist of fate does coach ben's fate end up in misty's hands like i loved it the irony is just delectable yeah um but it was really

[00:07:47] fucked up that here he is and this is who has to save him yet again yeah the look on his face when when he realized that misty had been assigned to be his defense attorney was like a combination of well i guess i'm just gonna fucking die then and here we go again we're fucking misty fucking quickly

[00:08:09] like he's so tired of her um but i gotta say i think she did a bang up job oh my god what i'm thinking is she's wasted being in the nursing home working yeah there is something more she could have done yeah she could have because she's yeah she's brilliant and multi-talented but has just

[00:08:35] crap interpersonal skills yeah like that's what keeps her from being a much more powerful person in the world is like i'm sure that there have been times in her life when she was passed up for things because people were like oh we don't want misty fucking quigley you know to be our manager we don't want misty fucking quigley to be on the committee we don't want you know because she's just awful

[00:08:58] mm-hmm in a delightful way i feel like there's more based on what we saw during the trial i feel like there's more with shauna that gets her to the point that she is now and i'm starting to think that maybe when they did come home she wasn't super excited about it because she had power out there and i mean i don't know i'm just throwing that out there i i have no idea well we know now for us

[00:09:28] but we i guess we're jumping into points we know now that she did something after they came back that was also reprehensible right jackie says that in the freezer she's like it's not just about the wilderness it's also about what you did when you came back and i'm like i wrote in my notes god damn it i want to see that timeline like yeah i'm just dying to see that and i think we will i think yeah

[00:09:52] well yeah eventually but like it's killing me that was the biggest tease ever yeah there are just different nuggets like that there's another point i think one of you mentioned it last week or the week before where we talked about thaisa and shauna saying that natalie it was because of natalie that they were able to get out yeah that they owed her a lot they owed her a lot so now i'm like okay

[00:10:22] yeah i want to know what what did natalie do did she is she the one that walked out of the woods i don't i don't know did anybody walk out of the woods or were they just discovered that's what we don't know can you imagine being like a hiker or someone who finds these girls yeah it's so terrifying i'd be running tribe of teenage girls in the woods people

[00:10:51] it wouldn't make sense it would sound like a horror movie yeah people would be like really and the blitter witch project said what like yeah i guess this was pre-blair witch but still yeah that was interesting this episode was directed by jennifer morrison who is an also an actress she was on once upon a time and house oh yeah i know that actress yeah so she's done multiple episodes of

[00:11:18] uh dr death as well as an episode of euphoria and tracker and according to what i read online she's doing this episode in episode seven oh yellow jackets and i really like what the way the things were shot oh yeah the visual storytelling was actually really strong in this episode i thought

[00:11:40] there was a lot of really great camera stuff um yeah yeah all right points penny yeah i'll just start right off with the trial and um the title of the episode 12 angry girls and one drunk travis uh is a play on a very famous 1957 film called 12 angry men and uh that movie is a legal drama

[00:12:09] it's directed by sydney lumay and it's a critique of the american justice system specifically juries and uh it tells us it's it's all entirely a story about jury deliberation you don't see the trial at all you see the 12 jurors men because it's the 50s uh in a room deliberating the evidence and the film

[00:12:33] is a it does this really amazing job of showing how personal biases personal experiences prejudices all come into the jury room with you and they color how you interpret the facts and they color the decisions that you make and they go through every juror in the movie and and sort of dig into their various motivations and what ends up happening is that um henry fonda who's who's the one holdout

[00:13:01] voting not guilty persuades every single juror to vote not guilty and just like in this in this episode at one point you know the first few people that he convinces it's very substantive but then the power of the group sort of drags the rest of them there's like a certain number of people that are like well if everyone else thinks it's guilty or not guilty i'll go in that direction too and i've actually

[00:13:27] served on a jury and i saw this happen there were people who were like i don't know but 10 of you think guilty so and i was like oh that's disturbing i have served on a jury too where um it was very obvious that the state did not have enough evidence like you could see something probably happened but they definitely did it was murder too and they definitely did not have enough

[00:13:54] evidence like their evidence was like people that admitted they were on drugs at the time that say they saw a flash that was their evidence um so it was pretty unanimous when we went to vote but there was one person that was like well i think i think she did it i think she had something to do with it and we're and we were like trying to explain it to her like yeah but you can't just go by what you

[00:14:20] think you have to go by the evidence and you know reasonable doubt and and she was like she held out for like two hours she was like but i just think she did it i just think she did it so yeah the jury system is kind of whack um there's a lot about our adversarial justice system that i have issues with and the only thing that gives me sort of calm about it is that it's so much better than all the other

[00:14:46] justice systems that have existed in the world where there was like trial by combat or trial by being drowned or you know trial by like somebody reading your bones like all the weird ways that people have been like convicted you know through the history of humanity like at least with courts there are rules and and in theory there's a judge who who keeps things fair and i do think natalie did a great job

[00:15:11] as judge i actually was pretty impressed with all the girls um on the trial i was upset about the the voting and this is what upset me about the episode and it made me say three out of five stars is that 12 angry men is very specifically about jury deliberation they they used the title and so what they gave us was a trial and then a series of votes there was no deliberation and in between the

[00:15:38] votes they just were like okay vote again without any discussion of what they had all just witnessed of the evidence or time to think it was the weirdest way of coming up with a verdict yeah i hated it in fact natalie went after shauna when she was deliberating yeah she's like no we're just voting yeah it's like why are you doing that that opened it up to shauna basically just like

[00:16:03] intimidating with her force of will until people change their minds which is not justice and um no way that they were so clear on other aspects of legal procedure made me be like don't you know that juries deliberate and there also was no opening and no closings like there were things that were missing and that seemed like if they had known enough to do some of the things they were doing that they should have known about those things as well and as a lawyer it just like made me a

[00:16:31] little crazy i was like where's the deliberation what's happening right especially ty who seemed to really have an interest in keeping it real yeah and i also think it would have been fascinating to to do what they did in the movie 12 angry men and like be like have shauna be like you know travis why are you voting not guilty like you know and drill into him like that would have been a really interesting scene and what we got instead was sort of this like like i don't know primitive

[00:17:00] like just do what i want you to do um it made the point about shauna being powerful but it it was such a missed opportunity to really dig into people's motivations and how everybody felt about the coach yeah because when he was on the stand telling his story about he didn't want to be a coach he didn't want to be a teacher and then how he changed and connected and protected them from themselves

[00:17:30] in some ways he really won people over even mari he won over and when you're doing voting like that people are not just going to change their mind if you ask them to vote again you have to give them a reason to right and that's where deliberating it should have been a secret ballot as well because yeah the forces of the personalities were so strong in that group

[00:17:58] that and i don't think jen we saw it yeah no jen did vote after melissa like like poked her yes in the last round no the first it was i think it was the first round no i don't think so i only watched it four times i watched like i slowed not didn't slow it but i watched

[00:18:23] it closely and i know she got her to vote in the last round because this is why three votes were guilty and six votes not guilty which technically is two-thirds of the people who were voting but there were 13 people so two-thirds of 13 would be nine there were only there weren't 13 because remember

[00:18:50] coach isn't voting misty is not voting ty is not voting right i's not voting so there were four people not voting so there were 10 people voting and because jen didn't vote it was nine it was six to three i didn't think mari was voting either in the first couple rounds she voted not guilty in the first round she did okay she was like the last person to put her hand up but she yeah she was in

[00:19:16] the first round i think jen voted in the first round guilty i i just really wanted to hear from more people why they thought coach was guilty it just like i said it's it's such a missed opportunity to have to dig into a little bit of like well i always hated coach and that's you know why i think

[00:19:38] he's guilty or whatever um really really really frustrating um but it had a lot of highlights misty was she did an amazing job defending coach and i was so impressed with how she approached him at first with the like how could you do this to us i thought we were friends and like slapping him and and all that stuff until she got him to be honest with her it was very manipulative very misty

[00:20:06] but it worked because it got him to be vulnerable with her in a way that she could then believe that he was not guilty and could then defend him and i was like god she's like 10 steps ahead that was all an act she put that on in order to get this reaction from him oh my god misty should be like a nuclear scientist she's so freaking smart um ben had one of the best lines i've ever heard in my life

[00:20:29] i'm in a jail with birds like it just sums up the whole situation that was one of my quotes he's like misty i'm in a jail with birds yeah and him looking around at the ducks was like how did i get here like everything is so crazy and messed up like how can this be true yeah um i thought that mari's testimony was particularly interesting to listen to and the way she sort of reasoned through

[00:20:57] things on the stand was was great and of course ben's speech was amazing i'll leave that for you to talk about wendy no we could go for it i mean i've i've got money uh and i thought it was so interesting when lottie eventually changes her vote from not guilty to guilty first she and shauna have this eye contact moment and then we see a vision of like wind in the trees or yeah and like some

[00:21:23] woo-woo music and i was like is that lottie's vision is that something lottie and shauna are sharing is that are we supposed to interpret that as the wilderness telling lottie that shauna is this power that she should do what shauna wants or and then i was also like because right then after lottie changed her vote travis and akila changed their votes and i was like did all of them have the vision together like it was just lottie right i mean so i'm gonna take the non-supernatural

[00:21:53] turn of events and i think lottie is lost she's not the leader she's not getting what she wants from travis she feels like the wilderness is trying to tell her something and she can't hear it and she's extremely frustrated and lost we've seen her in these last couple episodes floundering and i feel like when shauna did that for her she wanted to mean something so that's why she changed her vote

[00:22:18] and then when she changed her vote travis and akila also because travis is loyal to lottie before anything else and akila you know i think was really impacted by last week's fever dreams and she's starting to believe in lottie too and so she changed her vote too and i i don't think it's supernatural i mean it could be right that's the whole thing with this show you just don't know it teeters that line

[00:22:45] but i think if you're gonna take the non-supernatural vote i think that's what happened like lottie's lost she changed her vote and then those followed and there you have it she's allying herself with the power that is shauna just so interesting which she she thinks is the right thing to do yeah because lottie always thinks that she knows the right thing to do always she doesn't she wants to

[00:23:11] yeah um at the end of the scene they do this beautiful camera thing where natalie is saying like all right that that means it's guilty and the camera is focused on shauna's face and then it pulls back to reveal that shauna is standing at the head of the of this long table and she's slightly separated from the other girls and she's backlit so she just looks very dramatic and very powerful and natalie

[00:23:36] on the other hand is on the side of the table facing away from the camera like 90 degrees away from the camera and she's crowded in with all the other girls and shauna's power in that scene was so palpable and i was like it's gonna be like 48 hours and she's gonna have the leadership like she's ousting natalie it's happening like and i agree with what you were saying earlier daphne i don't think

[00:24:01] shauna is gonna be a good fucking leader she is emotional and vindictive and petty like natalie was doing a good job of trying to like keep things chill and fair and that's gonna mess everything up she's hate and rage filled yeah yeah and also like when people were like we don't know that coach

[00:24:25] burned down the cabin her response was always we could have died that was such a horrible thing it's like nobody is disagreeing that burning the cabin being burned down was a horrible thing but she at no point even entertained the idea that like we don't actually know who did it like she was just like it's so bad we have to kill ben and she never thought outside of that at all and i think she truly

[00:24:50] believes that like she was so convincing i i could see how people could be swayed she's so convincing she absolutely believes that she is right yeah and it just reminds me that last week or two weeks ago lottie said to callie we're all afraid of your mother and it's like yeah they have been for a long time

[00:25:15] i think that was a given when you saw her face and you saw them all raise their hands you could tell i don't think they wanted to but shauna's force of her like will and her personality in that moment was just so overwhelming yeah i'm impressed by it as much as i am frightened by it

[00:25:38] mm-hmm i go back to akila uh something lottie said to akila in the last episode when they're having the fever dream you have to help her or will die just makes me think that if shauna's the leader people are there are people that are going to be in on it like they're going to be for it because of it

[00:26:03] because of that shared experience so and that power people are drawn to power we've seen it in real life and we're seeing it on the show yep absolutely so ben's testimony i thought it was so beautiful so i'm actually not going to talk about ben's testimony but we can go there but i i think what stood out to me especially on second watch was like more than the fate of ben which i am very

[00:26:32] invested in obviously but more than that this episode is all about the truths that are coming out through this trial and how that's going to change the dynamics of this group permanently and i just went through a list of like truths that hadn't really been spoken until now um misty starts by accusing

[00:27:00] shauna of being ruthless and not just automatically agrees like publicly like we're just saying it shauna's ruthless misty pokes at shauna until she practically admits that yes she wanted to be the leader and was resentful that nat had become the leader um misty pokes at all the girls she's

[00:27:23] masterful she accuses ty of only pretending to believe in lottie's woo woo to keep van happy which was true in the beginning i do think she came to a place of believing it for herself as well but that was true um and she accuses shauna nat and melissa of not believing which i think is also true

[00:27:47] um she gets lottie to admit that yes it could have been any of them that burnt the cabin down which had a lot of power because as long as lottie was saying that travis and akila and several of the others were going to fall right into lining um and then under shauna's guidance ty gets natalie to

[00:28:12] admit that she knew where coach ben was all along which is a huge blow to natalie and her leadership so i think like yes this trial is about ben and yes we're all wrapped up in what's going to happen to ben but win or lose this trial was going to change everything for them yes i agree with you

[00:28:36] i think that trials are a popular narrative device for exactly this reason because it gives the writers a way to force people to say things to each other that they would not normally say to each other it's great for drama yeah and i think that we got to learn so much more about ben than

[00:29:01] we had at all i mean this really gave us a look into who he is whereas before i just thought well he that what a jerk he didn't help shauna she needed him he's the adult what why aren't you helping and all the way that what we've seen in the first two seasons anyway and part of the season we got to see who he really is and what you know he went through and i like that he calls them out and said you chop my

[00:29:31] leg off i was afraid like i don't blame him and i felt so much honesty coming from him during his speech because how did he know he wasn't going to end up being chopped up i mean he didn't even really know what they were doing to decide who to go after yeah i think in the beginning of that speech

[00:29:55] he comes to it with he doesn't care he can't even muster up the strength to fight for himself he just doesn't care he's to the point where he's like just put me out of my misery but misty really gets out of him all of these things that he starts talking about and she does it so well she's so great all of the

[00:30:21] acting is just incredible for these young actors and actresses and um little by little you kind of see him reanimate and start to be sincere and earnest and start to fight again you know for his life yeah he starts addressing them directly he says he apologizes to shauna you know he tells them about

[00:30:47] his parents being shitty people it it i both enjoyed his speech because i was like oh we're learning all this great stuff about ben and then i was like oh no that means he dies soon like yeah if this was dead yeah he dies in the next episode and yeah i kind of feel like he's gonna die in the next episode

[00:31:09] of this show yeah i like that he um he talked about them being underdogs and being annoyingly fucking relentless and he liked that about them he respected it he did they worked hard but then he protected them at different times once getting you know they got drunk and he pretended that he had

[00:31:34] food poisoning and he had done all the vomiting and done all the seven rooms that's insane nobody should have believed him and then you know protected taisa not going and telling her parents about her in van and even misty putting her on the team because he knew she'd get hurt that was really sweet that was

[00:31:57] so sweet and his family you know he was honest about it his family sucked and he when they crashed they chopped his you know the girls chopped his leg off and he was scared that he was going to be next and that they didn't need him anymore he was dealing with that because i can remember looking back in season one where you could feel that from him where he just didn't know where he fit anymore because he

[00:32:23] was missing his leg and he didn't feel like he could be the leader or protect them even though he was helping them with the gun and the different things he was doing he did have an impact whether they want to believe it or not he did try to do things with them at times to help them be able to survive over time he just got less and less involved yeah yeah he wasn't the leader that he

[00:32:52] could have been or that even maybe he felt he should have been to them yeah and he apologized to that and he apologized to shauna for not helping her with her baby and i felt like that was sincere me too yeah he said he didn't he may not understand their belief system but he didn't try to kill them and i believe that i don't think he did i was wondering that like i was wondering two

[00:33:22] things number one do you think he burned down the cabin no he convinced me when he saved them from the gas last time yeah i was like there's no reason for him to save them in that scenario if he's not like a good person right i'm surprised that no one brought that up yeah right that's true like that that well they sort of did when they talked about mari like he could

[00:33:47] just left mari in the pit or he could have just but yeah yeah yeah and my other question was if you had been a juror on that trial what would you what would your vote have been no i like to think that i would have voted not guilty and stuck to my guns yeah but i don't know with shauna looking you looking at you

[00:34:10] like that it'd be hard not to do i mean we've seen a lot of evil in adult shauna with the whole killing adam thing i think there's more there's definitely more there's definitely more evil there that we haven't seen or don't know about yet i um i had a conversation with jason about i guess last week i said something like you know misty is i don't think i said these words but she's an agent of

[00:34:39] chaos right she she can't yes stop stirring shit up yes she's always like things are quiet i gotta go make some drama and whereas shauna is more reactive she is she's trying to have a quiet life she's making breakfast shit comes to her and then she reacts very strongly very very strongly and i think jason thought

[00:35:04] i was making a moral comparison like that shauna is somehow better person than misty because she's reactive instead of uh like a shitster but i the point i was trying to make and i want everyone to understand this is that i find them scary in different ways and i'm not sure which one is scarier and i was comparing them in terms of like if i had to deal with this person who would be easier to deal with

[00:35:29] and i think i'd rather be faced with shauna because i feel like you could avoid pissing her off yeah whereas with misty there's no fucking telling what she's gonna do yeah no i don't want to be in misty's radar at all good bad friend enemy no no i i don't want to be anywhere near her whereas i think you can have a relationship with adult shauna and not get murdered or whatever because i

[00:35:56] she doesn't seek it out that's yeah that's although her record's not great no i mean she's done a lot of horrible stuff i just think that i'm just thinking like adam the way she approaches it is really different and now lottie yeah oh well we don't know if she killed we don't i'm just saying like and i mean one of them could happen around her yeah ty and van were also in manhattan at the same time

[00:36:22] yep yeah i've got some notes on that yeah i did like a mental tracking of who was where and when trying to figure out who was it yeah the only person i'm sure didn't kill lottie is misty because she seemed genuinely surprised when she saw the picture and got the text from walter yeah i mean walter would be my number one yeah walter's definitely on the list of suspects

[00:36:49] yeah oh yeah yeah a hundred percent or a new character that we haven't met yet yeah we seem to be meeting new characters this yeah this season some new ones and it's cool yeah sorry we've got a little tangency there is that good for the trial i think so okay yeah daphne give us what you got

[00:37:13] all right so um i'm gonna go right into the ending of the episode and since we already you know touched on it um we might as well talk about it who killed lottie the fact that lottie is dead i was not expecting that i mean i thought the trial and seeing the paper with you know what the outcome was gonna be

[00:37:41] was enough of like of a shock value but then to end the episode with lottie dying um again just shows how the showrunners just are completely you know they're focused on telling the story in their way and so this is what we get yeah i like that it's unpredictable

[00:38:06] me too i wasn't that surprised i don't know why i mean i felt i felt like something big was gonna happen with her because she just seemed to be just floundering lost and creating chaos yeah but i thought we were gonna see more creating chaos yeah i really thought we were gonna see more of her

[00:38:33] interacting with callie so she was only on one season and a couple episodes yeah yeah i wouldn't have thought we would have only had her for that amount of time um yeah the the crime scene where she was found looks exactly like the vision she had in season one episode six when she was being baptized

[00:38:57] by laura lee and she saw that vision of like a long hallway and then she turns a corner and then there's all those candles yeah lining the steps and she goes to the top of the steps and there's like a candle altar i spent a lot of time going back and forth between i'm gonna have to this episode and and season one episode six and comparing and the lighting is really different and it's hard to see in the current day crime scene um exactly what's going on on the left of the screen everything happening

[00:39:27] on the right that we can see looks exactly like the vision absolutely the left is just a little obscured by shadows it was hard to tell if it was identical and also in the vision there was there was water on the floor and so we didn't know what the floor looked like where she where the body was obviously yeah man did she look beautiful spray laid out she did like like if you're gonna get killed like do it in an attractive like model pose i don't think she could look bad she's so beautiful

[00:39:58] so at the beginning of that episode or at least where she starts the episode she goes and gets money which makes me go then why the hell were you trying to stay at shauna's i don't know if she was getting money or because they don't hand her money they hand her a receipt of some kind i think she transferred something i think that she moved a lot of money like digitally not physically while she was in that

[00:40:24] bank because they showed the receipt they sort of focused on the fact that it was receipt but we couldn't see what it said okay uh the camera also sort of lingered on her body long enough to show us that she was wearing that white satiny dress at the bank and again when she's in looking in the mirror later the same dress and then and that's what she's wearing in the crime scene importantly in her

[00:40:49] vision in the vision in season one she was wearing a long flowing white dress and remember she was like we we had shots of her from the back as she was going up the stairs and the dress had like a really long train and so it was this really beautiful image of this like long white train down the steps and into the water um so she's wearing a similar dress and it's a similar scene with the candles and

[00:41:11] everything and i don't think she had the necklace on right i don't think the necklace no she had a necklace i wonder where the necklace is i think shauna has shauna ripped it off cali and that's the last we saw of it yeah i'm sure that's what i like went back to look i wanted to see if she was wearing the necklace but she was i don't think she was if shauna had murdered her maybe she would have

[00:41:37] put the necklace on her but i mean that's too big of a clue yeah and shauna's not dumb yeah she's she's crazy crazy but she's not stupid not stupid i mean lottie's standing there looking in the mirror and saying i understand that i hurt you i have a lot to apologize for and i'm just wondering who was she going to talk to that she's yeah practicing this is she going to her community to apologize to

[00:42:05] them for everything or is she going to talk to someone that we don't know right or was she gonna apologize to shauna or van or ty or misty right it it could be anybody um i like what i really liked about that scene is that it shows how practiced and rehearsed lottie is in her communications like you know the way that she floats through the world adult lottie like when she was at her

[00:42:32] compound and with her cult and everything it's like she's so graceful and and the words that come out of her mouth always sound slightly poetic and like you know a little bit elevated and it's like it's not spontaneous she's not just graceful like that it's practiced it's a skill set and i think that's really fascinating for somebody who was a cult leader to like recognize that yeah

[00:42:57] she does get a call from thaisa earlier yeah but i i don't feel that we should include that here i think that when we talk about his story it's sure yes that story yeah that was yeah we'll talk about that in a minute but yeah we're saying goodbye to lottie yeah adult lottie anyway maybe she'll be a

[00:43:22] ghost maybe she'll join jackie in the freezer and be a ghost you know what i have to commend them they are bringing ella pernell back for things and i'm happy i'm happy about that me too because she's great yeah she's fantastic and i like what we learned from her scenes in the freezer with shauna yeah so yeah that's that's where i'm at bye lottie thank you yeah and how much guilt shauna has lived

[00:43:50] with all these years you know yeah yeah and pain um all right penny next point um adult tie and adult van this was a runner-up for my fucked up moment of the week go on a murder mission in manhattan where they decide to like put a card on the ground and see if anyone picks it up

[00:44:15] and then they they're gonna kill that person like how did they get from the wilderness wants more to keep van alive to let's go find an innocent person to murder like that's it's like i kind of want to see the conversation where they're like i know what we'll do we'll go into the city and we'll get a deck of cards like they had to plan that i don't think that van was fully on board with that no she wasn't

[00:44:39] she was definitely um uh what's the word i want um placating in uh hesitant yeah yeah um ty earlier like you said she calls lottie and she's like what did you mean when you said that to van and i'm like ty hi lottie are you still in the hospital are you okay i have a question for you like nothing she launches right into this like i need something from you which is so self-centered and everything

[00:45:06] about her wanting to save van is so needy and desperate like she keeps saying i need more time with you i can't lose you it's it's not about van it's about what van does for her and and about her real need to escape from and not think too hard about how much she has torpedoed her carefully constructed life right it's been ruined like her wife left her she's not allowed to talk to her son

[00:45:32] she's lost her job like van is all she has left and she's clinging to her like a life raft and it's it's it's crazy that she wants wanted to go murder that guy she just like opened the door and was like about to walk into his apartment and kill him that was i i at one point van says i think this is the stupidest thing idea that we've ever had and i'm like yes yes this is the stupidest idea you've

[00:46:02] ever i hated every minute of them stalking that guy but i like the way it ended up you know and i was thinking like for van van was the one who really believed in the wilderness yeah and she's dying she has terminal cancer even i i know we think she's in remission but

[00:46:26] like if anybody should want to do it you would think it would be her but she wasn't fully on board and she's the reason why they turned away because i think if she hadn't of yeah i was doing it yeah yeah well ty i mean van has to tell ty i i want to live but not like this

[00:46:50] yeah because ty is insistent upon doing this yeah yeah and it almost comes across as you want to keep van alive for yourself not for her to be alive absolutely and that i get like when you love someone and they're going through something like this you'll do anything to keep them alive

[00:47:11] but it does come across as more selfish which is not it it just to me came across more selfish than it's selfish yeah and she's and she's such a driven person and now she's got all of her ambition and drive and everything dedicated to van she doesn't have anything else going on in her life and that is a huge burden for van to carry when she's already dealing with the end of her life

[00:47:41] is to be like the everything for you know her high school sweetheart who dumped her and left her and six months ago didn't know she existed i mean she did know but she didn't she wasn't doing anything about it yeah she wasn't being in touch with her and yeah and you know the pretzels and the the carriage ride was all really sweet and cute but i kept reminding myself like they were about to

[00:48:06] murder some dude a few minutes ago like i you can't get swept up in the romance of this moment too much because ty is a loose cannon with like only one objective and that's keeping van alive it's in the in the measurement of who's the scariest like ty is rising because like she's willing to just murder some dude she doesn't even know because she thinks the wilderness wants her to right on the

[00:48:35] chance that it will help van in some mystical way that's and are we sure she didn't do that she could very easily have gone back they separated and yeah we don't know what she was doing during that time i didn't even think about that she could have killed lottie she's on my list she's on my list for potential like yeah they were all separated at some point in the day and they were all in

[00:48:59] manhattan yikes yep so we don't know who killed lottie it i mean i think they're pointing they're sort of hinting that it's shauna but we don't know um well we know where shauna was right well she went to get the cat in manhattan yeah you know same place yeah they were all in manhattan and that cat thing

[00:49:23] was crazy right so like did she go into manhattan to murder lottie and then get the cat as a cover story i don't know yeah i mean it's kind of crazy but i feel like this show does this to us to make us think about what fantastical thing could have happened yeah or lottie could have killed herself absolutely the only one that didn't seem to be in the area was misty right because misty left work

[00:49:51] and went home we saw that and when she got that text from walter she seemed i think genuinely surprised yeah yeah and then she opened the picture and was like what like it's not unusual that i don't think yeah and then there's walter and i i mean you can say well what would his motive be well he doesn't seem to need much he doesn't and i feel like if he killed lottie it would affect the others

[00:50:20] and maybe bring them back together which would make misty happy and i think he wants to make misty happy yeah i think walter's a bad guy oh yeah i mean i mean we know walter's a bad guy he's bad but i but i think he's the bad a bad guy for them oh yeah yeah i don't see this ending no this may not end

[00:50:43] well for him no i wouldn't want to be someone who killed one of misty's friends no even though she doesn't seem to particularly like lottie yeah it's still like she can dislike lottie he can't yes yes right like they're her those aren't her friends no one is yeah right yeah it's so sad

[00:51:08] yeah all right he makes me sad yeah daphne okay so i want to talk about jeff and the good karma bus that he was on in this episode i feel like it gave us a few things like he went to wiki how and figured out things once they figured out that it wasn't the brakes

[00:51:34] like it was a bad brake booster right but shauna the brakes yeah shauna is still convinced that misty did it but that if you look at that and think about that that goes way back to how she was about coach she was convinced he did and no one was going to convince her otherwise yep but i love that jeff had his own moments in this especially honestly even though he stole the thunder from randy during the

[00:52:00] bingo i thought it was amazing that he made friends with all the residents at the retirement home and it was adorable let's be honest like didn't you want to like give jeff a little hug even misty was like oh look jeff's getting along with the old people that's cool i'm not i don't hate him i was adorable yeah it really was yeah he at the beginning of that he says we're in a serious karma deficit here we

[00:52:25] need to do some good i need to do some good and so he starts like trying to find things to donate and try to get the family to do things and callie is not wanting to go do anything and i love that when they get to misty's the retirement home that misty works at and shauna realizes that jeff of course had no idea and he seems a little surprised that misty and shauna are kind of having a they they don't

[00:52:55] seem to be getting along and i'm just like you're so perfectly oblivious to the fact that your wife and misty are complicated scary people yeah like oh my god callie has the best the other best line of the episode besides i'm in a jail with birds when she says bring me back a karma to go plate yep and i was like oh my god that's like the most essential callie line ever it's like flippant

[00:53:24] it's clever it's dismissive it's fully understanding the situation it's funny it's so callie so callie and we didn't get a lot of callie in this episode yeah she was just a little bit one little bit but you know jeff volunteers them to go and do this and misty can't stand it that shauna is enjoying cooking because that's what she's doing she's she does it at home and misty thought for sure

[00:53:53] she would hate it and shauna seems to be fine with it which is where we get the knife in the back scene yeah we finally get to know what that was all about which is kind of i think what we thought it was which is kind of like a i wish i could do this but i can't thing um but then they end up um

[00:54:16] because misty just gets so upset she goes and gets this paper out of svetlana's room the resident she goes and gets this white piece of paper and take some of her puzzle pieces yeah i'm just like that's so misty that is so misty so petty i was thinking that her little petty revenges that she

[00:54:45] gets on people like that are akin to lottie's shoplifting in that it's like a release valve for her evil she's like i'll just do a little tiny evil thing and then i won't need to kill anyone today yep yeah yeah so misty leaves goes off and we don't really know where i mean she gets home but it's dark out so i don't think she went to manhattan i can't tell you for sure that she didn't

[00:55:15] um but i liked um ace of bass the sign was playing while they were in the kitchen so that was a cool like throwback song uh and then shauna ends up in the freezer stuck chatting with jackie and yeah and it was the version of jackie from when she was talking to her in the meat shed

[00:55:41] yes it was the same outfit and the like frost in her hair and everything yep she kind of taunted her and said you're gonna be frozen and left for dead like yeah what happened to sean uh to jackie and then she also said someone's trying to hurt you for what you did not just for the wilderness but when you got back so now i'm just like i really like you penny i want that timeline so i can

[00:56:06] see what it was like for them when they came back it seems like they were still all friends for a while dan and ty talked about going to their wedding so it seems like they were all friends for a while remember in season one when shauna was in jackie's bedroom and she picked up the journal and she was leafing through it and lots of clever people

[00:56:31] noticed that some of the entries things written in the journal would have taken place after they were in the plane crash i have always had this theory that shauna for a time when they got back was like oh i'm jackie and just like tried to live jackie's life instead of her own life like pretended to be jackie or something or was delusional and thought she was jackie

[00:56:58] and why not and this is another thing about shauna why not go to school why not go and have a fresh start by going to school i have a theory that she married jeff because she thought that he has to be the great love of my life otherwise why would i have slept with him behind my best friend's back and eventually we would have had a falling out about it and it would have ended up with her dying

[00:57:28] and so in her head somehow she dedicated her life to jeff to make up for that she talked about it a little bit when she said when she was at the retreat she said like you do it out of guilt and shame and then she talked so like callie's probably 17 18 at the most so it was probably a few years before they had callie and she talked about how she didn't

[00:57:56] really want to have a baby after what she had been through but she did for jeff right so that leaves quite a few years that we don't really have accounted for in all their timelines and i really want more of a conversation between her and jeff about the baby that was lost we haven't really had that and he must know about it i want to know when he read the

[00:58:25] journals yeah how long ago how long has he known all that stuff yeah and then shauna her good karma thing she goes to multiple shelters in new york to find a cat that looks like the cat on the poster it's kind of silly because you would know if it was your cat or not i don't know there are stories of of people finding identical cats and thinking it's their cat and then their cat actually does come home

[00:58:54] and they're like why do i have two twin cats i i know someone that happened to yeah and it's really bizarre the cat's name was cheddar and i can't remember if she named the other one cheeto or how it ended up but she ended up with two cats that look the same really funny i like to think that i would be able to tell if it was my cat but like honestly let you know he looks like every other little black cat you know like it wouldn't be hard to get me a fake pixel the personality would clue me in i

[00:59:22] think but that's how we ended up with our orange tomcat my dad had seen him around he was like hanging around outside of and my dad started feeding him on the porch but he still wouldn't come near him and then my dad went to the vet one day and saw a poster and he's like oh my god that's the cat so he calls the guy the guy comes out brings a trap they trap the cat my dad's like i am the best guy

[00:59:50] ever calls this guy up the guy comes and goes yeah that's not my cat so now it's your cat that's now it's our cat and he lived with us for 10 years that's i mean your dad did do all the right things he just didn't happen to have the right cat yes right and it was a better life for him because he was he was like living in he was feral yeah that's a hard life for a kitty cat yeah yeah

[01:00:19] well jeff tries to point out that you know it's a duplicate cat to lie to the family about their missing cat she kind of hits back at him with please don't give me notes on my comma which i thought was kind of fun and then he he you know he thinks it's thoughtful but i have to wonder are these people going to know that that's not their cat and then what's going to happen to the cat are

[01:00:43] they going to have a cat you know what that might make shauna a better person she may need a cat yeah she should have a cat yeah she should have a cat it might help her because also that was a huge cat yeah that cat was gigantic and fluey like it must be like part main coon or partner norwegian forest cat that he did look like a main coon like he had it in him yeah i kind of think they left it as

[01:01:11] that was going to be their cat that's what i thought i hope so because i think she will be a better person if she has a cat so you can love without having the same level of fear of rejection or loss that you have with a child right like that's the great thing about animals is they give even people who have a lot of trauma something to love them that doesn't know anything about the trauma and doesn't care about

[01:01:38] it because it's just a more pure kind of just love that's it there's something very there's a reason why pets are healers right like it heals people absolutely it's my emotional support cat he's right here penny give us your notes note one of my favorite things about these girls and something i really admire

[01:02:04] is their sort of we can do it attitude about things and they were like we need to have a trial all right let's set up furniture let's put together costumes let's develop a ritual like they're so get up and go about everything i i'm very impressed by it they put a lot of effort into stuff they're good at crafts like they're very committed yeah like the outfits that they put together for them to be like the judge

[01:02:31] and the lawyers and like and van as the bailiff like i was like wow you guys really went all out that's awesome there's also part of me that's like where are you finding all these resources but whatever i know you have to suspend but i think like these were all elite athletes like they were going to nationals that energy and activity and that drive that had to go somewhere because they're not in

[01:02:58] that any longer yeah and i remember in like right after the crash that you know they had to do a lot of things to survive immediately and that they had this real like team way of approaching it right they'd be like come on girls and then they'd all get together and do a thing together like they lifted up the plane wing and um they they you know there's a lot of splinters in their group now there's a lot of like

[01:03:21] friction but they still have that like team like let's go thing about them when they have an activity that they all need to contribute to and i just admire it i'll play off that penny and i'll say that the i feel like this episode we saw them advance another step in their rituals and their dress

[01:03:46] getting us closer and closer to the cannibal council that we see in the pilot yeah yeah for some reason i think that shauna is probably the antla queen i think you could be right and i think we could also see a regime change at some point yeah yes and it's going to be

[01:04:07] incredibly different how about you daphne point so i want to point out numbers are a thing that i have become obsessed with with this show because i'm trying to keep track of the number of people that are still out in the wilderness right now my number is at 14 and that comes from counting 12 people

[01:04:35] walking including coach walking back to camp and travis and lotty being at camp yeah that sounds so that is my which if i do all the math in my head and look at my list there should be one yellow jacket that we don't have a name for yet so there's 14 people four of them had to abstain from voting so 10

[01:04:55] people were voting yeah yeah back to penny oh um i have a couple the opening shot of the girls walking back to camp with ben very closely mirrored the shot at the end of season two of the girls walking back to the cabin with javi's dead body natalie was in the lead with a look on her face that was like

[01:05:19] shock and regret and then you know when it was javi they were carrying him on a pole but in this case coach was on his crutches right behind her and i just thought that that was really like just great visual storytelling to sort of mimic that moment again i enjoyed some pieces of the trial that i thought were pretty funny entertaining one of them was the misty i'm building a narrative loved that

[01:05:48] and the other was when ty asked nat for a redirect and nat whispered i don't know what that is yeah that was good yeah there were pieces that were really entertaining um a couple of other songs that we heard in this episode um during the time that ty and van were

[01:06:12] playing cards and trying to get someone to choose themselves um a song called fresh blood by the eels was playing and the lyrics i think fit what was happening and then when we get ty and van buying pretzels linger by the cranberries was playing somebody must really like the cranberries that song could not

[01:06:38] be more appropriate to tie in van's relationship really i mean i noticed though when van was paying for the pretzels her hand was shaking yeah and she said to ty ty's like something wrong with your hand and she goes oh the adrenaline from the day i'm like no something else is going on no something else yeah

[01:07:01] so like maybe she hurt her hand when she murdered lottie i mean it could have been i mean it could have been any of them it's not jeff no who isn't it it's not jeff it's not randy only person and it's not randy yeah and i don't think it's callie right so although callie would be more suspicion than

[01:07:28] jeff and randy yeah oh yeah i think callie's more capable i just don't think lottie is someone she would kill right but she's not done getting information from lottie yet right but their newfound relationship would definitely put her in the list yep but i think as far as motive shauna not wanting callie to know anymore and just not wanting lottie near her kid at all gives her a

[01:07:57] motive like to be the one that took her out i mean she put that necklace on shauna and what the girls recognize that necklace to mean is that you're next mm-hmm yeah i mean she put the necklace on callie and so yeah if if i'm shauna maybe i'm taking that as a threat would shauna kill to protect her child you know absolutely absolutely absolutely she no question in my mind yeah and that that's i hadn't

[01:08:25] really thought about that so yeah yeah um also lottie's reaction to the drawing that travis is holding and it's so at least i took it as here's javi and um jackie

[01:08:49] and who was third body why can't the baby baby the baby okay so i'll redo that i think it's so obvious that it's javi jackie and the baby and his body buried right in front of it that's really interesting that's not what i took from it me neither but but when you say that it makes a lot of sense yeah what did you what did you take from it he was they were gonna burn him kill him i thought it

[01:09:18] was the cannibal council it was he said it's the outcome i was like outcome of the trial or the outcome of like your time in the wilderness i don't know now you're making me question it but i thought that that's exactly what it was was okay he's gonna be buried right in front of him they're gonna kill him and bury him and i don't think they would bury ben next to the those three that they think are like guarding them right they think that the true that jackie and javi are like their

[01:09:46] you know guardian spirits and whatever they think the baby is doing oh they might turn it to be that he's was meant to save them i don't know i mean the big question is are they gonna kill coach and then if they kill him are they gonna eat him and who's gonna kill him because it's one thing to vote for it and it's another thing to kill somebody physically although i do think shauna's capable of it at this point she couldn't do it to nat but well would she's angry enough now travis hadn't stopped

[01:10:16] her we don't know right yeah she has a pause that's all we know yeah yeah travis just seems so spaced out well they called the the episode 12 angry girls and one drunk travis i didn't think he was drunk he didn't seem drunk he just seemed out we didn't see him drinking no but maybe he was i don't i don't understand why that was in the title is he still under the shroom influence maybe he shouldn't be if

[01:10:43] he didn't take anymore because they they burn out of your system like the high effect lasts like six hours and then there's a sort of after effect that lasts like 24 hours so he should be clear of it by now but he seems quite diminished this season yeah he's got his little hammock area yeah separate from the girls where he has like javi's drawings and he was holding the wooden wolf that javi carved

[01:11:10] like i think he's in a really bad place but in a completely different way from shauna yeah yeah like more interest in internally focused he's barely there like yeah he's not present well i think too he's dealing with the trauma of his brother being allowed to die yeah and eating and eaten him

[01:11:35] yeah like he feels really bad about it and he's just sitting there staring at javi's drawings that's all he's doing yeah just thinking about his brother and probably spending a lot of time being like i should have been nicer to him when he was alive yeah i should have protected him from our shitty dad like whatever yeah guilt guilt guilt there's a lot of guilt and pain on this show and grief

[01:12:00] yep and anger lots of things i mean i think shauna yeah i think shauna is still very um affected by not only her baby's death but jackie's death and feeling responsible and not having a place to channel any of that she's channeling it into this rage and anger that she has

[01:12:25] you know it's just added to it and built up yeah i did feel like melissa and shauna pretty much outed themselves oh absolutely well i mean misty did say well you could go either way i don't think that's what she was referring to or maybe it was but i thought oh yeah you have no idea okay although just holding hands isn't the same as like kissing or something but it certainly revealed that they have some kind

[01:12:53] of connection now that nobody would have ever thought they had before right yeah van is really mean to misty when they're talking about who you know is going to be the defense lawyer and and they look at misty van is like he's your boyfriend right she's always needling her about that like yes and even in like adult the adult timeline when they were at the retreat and natalie was talking to not natalie

[01:13:20] misty was talking about walter and she's like i guess he's my boyfriend and van was like does he know that like let it go van it's mean it's unnecessary and it's me right and just like drop it i don't know why she can't let go of that one particular thing that she needs to like pretty hard and sharp in the younger timeline like the way she talked to travis after they killed or after they let javi die was

[01:13:49] terrible as well like yeah she's really got a hard edge to her except when it comes to ty pretty much everybody else gets that and lottie everybody else gets the hard van it's just unnecessarily mean yeah i mean like she had a crush and she was a young person with a crush like and he told her that

[01:14:13] he had feelings for her as well yeah and well yeah there was i just don't like it it's time for

[01:14:45] listener feedback buzz buzz buzz dre manoni says i liked teen shauna more in this episode than the first two oh these are about episode three by the way just to be clear not the episode we just talked about because we are a little bit ahead all right i liked teen shauna more in this episode than the first two she seemed like she had more control over her emotions but an interesting parallel to adult

[01:15:08] shauna who seems to be lashing out both with misty and lottie understandably so this episode definitely takes me to some supernatural vibes but maybe they are just poison induced laugh cry emoji all right we got a call from steve brown hello yellow jackets wtf this is steve and before i start this week i have to say two things first off i guess there isn't there wasn't a clip of ben uh

[01:15:37] propping the doors shut so we're not sure who burned the cabin down and second did shauna really spit in that girl's food i don't think she did okay here we go with uh season uh three episode three uh that's the breaks there's breaks but okay after the previous one we start with is that mari right mari and she's making up her own uh lyrics to i'm too sexy for this spa yeah mari you're not keeping the bench coach that you're into him no matter what nostalgia you try to bring up

[01:16:03] i don't know they've maced each other crazy oh so we do find out that uh according to van's blood work her cancer is not metastasizing coach ben you've seen dave matthews you don't even like him that much okay we're back to the weird sound from the jungle uh in the wilderness oh good point mari how can he keep you for very long um yeah i don't know this coach ben mari it's gonna be an interesting

[01:16:29] situation to see what's going on how it how it yeah finishes and lottie's got something in the present day timeline of something going on oh and lottie's uh encouraging callie to steal okay yeah van they could be wrong but uh they could be right too that you're healed or healing but uh yeah i don't know and she's confirmed the waiter did die and maybe it's a gift and shauna's figured out that misty was the cause of all of this of course like yeah they're so what's the paranoia here i don't know

[01:16:58] when shauna's picking up on all the things that misty uh this has all been misty's fault now lottie and callie are making dinner for shauna and jeff the necklace callie has is that the necklace from pit girl that doesn't look it's not right but shauna's got a pretty extreme reaction to it and apparently taisa has the entire peewee herman show on tape and now ty wants to go to this ice cream shop what okay so van and taisa are experiencing some weird thing in this ice cream palace what the

[01:17:26] teenagers have found something what and there's that sound again this was going to take multiple watchings to understand yes yes agreed we we all watched it multiple times yes this is not a show that you could watch only once i watch it once to enjoy it and then the next two times are notes

[01:17:49] and making sure i didn't miss anything yep so jeffrey ashton says it's becoming obvious to me that melissa is a red herring and it's pretty funny with all the meta stuff like you have a personality they're not developing her character at all i kind of think the casting of hillary swank is a misdirection of some sort too oh well i'm interested it's possible yeah yeah where we go with this

[01:18:16] because we haven't seen her yet yeah my bet is still melissa this feedback is from lisa spare did anyone clock that the song lottie and callie were dancing to in the kitchen make your own kind of music was the song used in the lost episode one of season two when they introduced desmond in the hatch apparently it's also used in dexter i haven't seen that i don't think that's just a coincidence

[01:18:44] i did not clock that no and that's such an iconic scene for lost because it starts out on season two spoiler alerts it starts out on season two and it looks completely different you're like wait where are we is this a is this a show from the 60s what's what am i watching and that music is playing behind it and i do think there's it's probably an ode to lost there's probably a lot of i bet there's a

[01:19:11] bunch of fans on the writers team and yeah i bet there's a bunch of stuff that we haven't picked up on that are like little nods to lost yep all right now we have a call from jenny ryan hello yellow jackets friends and family um just one little thing i wanted to say about the episode um three when callie and lottie are dancing in the kitchen to the song make your own kind of music

[01:19:40] by cass elliott mama cass and i was a little worried because um i've always ever since lost i have a hard time trusting shows that like to get complicated and then they don't actually answer any other questions and it's disappointing and um when i heard that song i got worried because that is the song that i mean i don't know how many of you watch lost but

[01:20:08] it is a song that features prominently in uh one of the storylines anyway i was like oh no it's uh it's a lost easter egg and they're telling us they have no plan and no road map so i hope that isn't true okay bye i hope that's not true oh man no and that's so funny because we did not set that up no back to back yeah yeah awesome well jason patag wrote in and said did anyone catch what shoes

[01:20:36] akila was wearing in her cave hallucination question mark question mark question mark question mark the pink converse exclamation point exclamation point exclamation point oh my gosh who was it was it akila akila was wearing the pink converse didn't one of you clock that i didn't i did not oh my gosh i must have seen it online somewhere then yeah the pink converse i've kind of stopped looking for them yeah me too because i always thought it was van which it still could be right

[01:21:03] because they all trade clothes around you wouldn't think they'd trade shoes but you never know yeah yeah if someone's no longer with us i mean yeah uh jason goes on to say they are clearly seen just as she begins to disappear in the sinkhole slash quicksand also the straight blonde-haired woman that seems to be stalking shauna and callie had me immediately thinking about the political queen maker ty met with

[01:21:29] at the fancy dinner party in season one there's a straight haired blonde woman stalking shauna and callie kind of that you don't see a lot of hair but there's like blondish hair okay so just barely any information yeah at the nursing home or i think no just outside their house at one point there's someone looking in at callie oh yeah there's definitely a shot looking in the window but i

[01:21:58] didn't notice hair i thought it was just like a pov shot yeah no there's a little bit of hair anna s says greetings from ukraine welcome from ukraine i'm very interested in adult ty van storyline this season it seems that they will murder some people in future episodes and isn't it exciting

[01:22:20] also probably will be behind heartbreaking deaths my bet is that the people who will die this season is coach ben walter jeff hillary swank and the joel mckale characters also i think that adult lottie or adult van may die this season well you were right about that yeah and a question in the gas wilderness

[01:22:46] hallucination dream van shauna and akila saw a man with no eyes people who are aware of other ty akila is under question but it's very interesting that they saw him also wouldn't adult van have some reaction to that commercial as well she looked odd about it what if man with no eyes is wilderness cannot wait for more quite anxious about multiple deaths this season also i don't think that hillary

[01:23:13] swank is an adult melissa or any of the yellow jackets some interesting theories yeah that email also if jeff dies we riot oh my goodness we i think jeff needs to start a book club yes but thank you we're really hoping and praying for everybody in in ukraine so thank thank you like for

[01:23:41] um responding and we hope you're well yeah and please write in again if if you're interested we'd love to have you write in more and hear some more of your theories yeah you have interesting ideas anna chris seth says okay i've really enjoyed this show especially the balance between is it magic or is it mental and the vast majority of the writing has been great now of course comes the but but i don't buy

[01:24:09] shauna letting lottie crash at their home at all they were on opposite ends of everything in the wilderness often to the point of real anger then lottie leads them into really doing this in chasing hunting shauna at the cult but shauna needs barely any convincing to let this woman stay over plus callie is now lottie curious even though she just felt the need to shoot lottie to protect her mom

[01:24:35] from her callie wanting to know more about her mom's naked and afraid escapade check callie randomly turning to the troubled woman who just put her mom in harm's way get the fuck out of here especially in the brand new context of callie's blood guts and raw meat defense of shauna's honor i can suspend my disbelief for the purpose of a lot of narrative but shauna letting lottie sleep over was a huge eye

[01:25:02] roll at the writers first time i felt like this show's writing was shoehorned love the pod thanks for being my let's get weird ear hole friends lol thanks chris it's hilarious um yeah we do get weird here alissa uranga and i hope i pronounced that correctly says love it so wild lost and twin

[01:25:26] peaks influences but definitely yellow jackets was it poisonous gas or was it the wilderness was it misty sabotaging shauna's car out of desperation or was it walter or even adult melissa so good glad you're enjoying it alicia stout says listening to the podcast now on this episode correct me if i'm wrong but i swear back in season one or two whenever they had the high school reunion inside the hallway of

[01:25:54] the high school there was a cabinet inside the cabinet was an in-memoriam area with photos of those deceased from the crash wasn't coach ben one of those photos i have to go back as soon as we're done recording and look for that scene and see if i can yeah because i don't i don't remember us ever pointing that out or noticing i didn't think it was in memoriam i think it was everyone who was in the

[01:26:18] crash yeah that's what i had thought but i could also be wrong daphne please let us know i will i'm gonna as soon as we're done i'm going right back to check that out all right kasha kathia says my running theories first the screaming animal calls that everyone keeps hearing are actually people looking for them they are so caught up in the what's going on within the group that it warps reality

[01:26:45] the screaming animal calls in the dark are a search party and this ties back into that they're closer to civilization than they think my second one is that noise that they keep hearing could also be the sound of drilling because we see that they are close to a huge deposit of iron ore based on the blood red river and the crazy magnetic field it could be one of the reasons whether and inaccurate flight instruments

[01:27:14] why the plane crashed in the first place is it a coincidence that the noise stops when nat shoots the gun maybe the people drilling hear the gun shot and stop to listen how messed up would it be if it all turns out that they were at best a few days walk from civilization that would be so heartbreaking man not unlike what happened in the movie alive or um siding of the snow they weren't that far from

[01:27:41] civilization right or from a hotel or something yeah right yeah all right i have another voicemail from jenny ryan and this one covered episodes one and two we just got it in late last week jenny here from saskatoon i have tried to record this a million times to get it under two minutes i'm gonna keep trying um there's just a lot to say yellow jackets episodes one and two here we go uh first i should tell you

[01:28:08] that while pa dam spelled d-a-m-e does in fact mean not a lady the way it's spelled at the restaurant is pa dam with an apostrophe after the d which means no soul it's not fun um i also think that van is going to be in remission because of the waiter dying i think they gave the wilderness a soul

[01:28:31] they gave the wilderness the waiter and so now they get van's life back i think that's why she was at him and meeting up with him then she would have told him so like is he lying or did not not tell him for some reason also i think ben was talking to whoever in the weird tree root house the underground

[01:28:58] home where he lives because that's where javi was living and javi said that there was a lady who told him not to come back so i'm assuming that ben and javi were talking to the same lady whether she's real or mystical or some sort of an entity i don't know maybe she's the one screaming um i also wanted to tell you that in northern canada it does get very warm in the summer so it can get really really hot

[01:29:24] so um extreme weather extremes up here so we have extreme hot and extreme cold so absolutely they would be warm um and also i think that the reason they're going to go back to cannibalism is because um somehow uh akila's gonna overdose or something um on mushrooms or run into a i don't know i don't know if you can even overdose of mushrooms but something's gonna go wrong with the mushrooms and then they're gonna lose all their animal food and so then they're gonna turn to each other and

[01:29:54] to that end i believe prediction um that there's gonna be a schism and it's gonna be coach and nat and mari and on one side and then shauna on another another side um because i think that uh one will be eating people and one will not be eating people um okay that's it that's two minutes oh my god okay goodbye oh thank you jenny it's okay if you go a little over two minutes truly we we value what you

[01:30:20] have to say absolutely i was thinking like how fucked up would it be if they go to cannibalism when they have other food yeah yeah that's why i'm so curious to see what they do with coach because if that's a different level if they kill him and then eat him when they have plentiful food when they have ducks and stuff yeah that's disturbing as anything that's really bad well and they're naming

[01:30:48] the animals yeah we learned on walking dead you shouldn't do that no like oh dear megan o'connell writes in i kept thinking about the daryl dixon finale with the bat fever dreams on this last episode you know it's funny i didn't specifically think about daryl dixon but i was like is it safe to eat those bats like don't a lot of diseases come from bats

[01:31:18] yeah like scary to eat bats i don't know apparently coach has been fine but i did think about that i think other animals eating bat droppings can cause a lot of bacterial problems viral problems i think a lot of that's been traced back to the bat guano different diseases that we have

[01:31:42] gross yeah jennifer mcginley says past timeline is way better than current which feels really disjointed and lost i would agree with that yeah i was more invested in the past timeline i think it's funny though because in season two i think it was a little bit the other way around for me

[01:32:05] i don't think i think season one they were pretty even but since even one i think i've been more invested in the previous timeline i thought the cult was really fascinating last season i was into that but yeah yeah i agree all right we have a voicemail from daniella hey guys it's daniella

[01:32:30] again your bestie but i already called and i left a really long message i tried to keep it short i'm only calling back for one thing i was just re-watching the episode and i had not paid close attention to the intro now i'm watching for every little detail and i noticed it looks like someone finds the box like the recording box in the airplane that misty bashed in i don't know if you guys noticed this i'm sure you did but i bet the girls find it all beat up and it doesn't look like plane

[01:32:58] crash beat up like it's gonna be bashed in like from purposely so maybe you guys were right i know you talked about will the girls find out her secret and i think they might i thought this was kind of done and over with and buried and she would die with this secret but i'm pretty sure somebody finds it did you guys see that part what other things did you notice in the intro okay bye now i'm going to do that i've got a list going now all the things i need to go do homework to do daphne yep yep i would think

[01:33:28] it fell out of a plane so it being beat up seems like it would be not suspicious but i do think that is going to come out but i don't know that yeah because how could they ever forgive her but they've all done so much that it's just one other thing yeah yeah now we have one more piece wendy i know piece of feedback so our last piece of feedback is from robin mark she writes i could watch

[01:33:58] all of them doing absolutely nothing and still enjoy it because i think the show is that good i'm definitely more interested in the 90s timeline but i feel like that's by design to an extent my one gripe young van scars look like someone drew them on with a pen surely they can make them look more like scars i just i just want to say like the acting with the trial ty misty shauna yeah

[01:34:27] and nat and mari and and mari like they were all so good the these girls have a big futures in front of them they are amazing yeah they really are absolutely mm-hmm and i'm not dismissing the older actors because they're amazing too but just from these young

[01:34:50] unknowns is really amazing all right that is our show thanks for listening everybody next up will be yellow jacket season three episode five did ty do that just a hilarious title i know i can't read it without

[01:35:18] yeah yeah i hear urkel yeah and it could be so many different things did ty do what yeah kill lottie did she i mean there's did she burn the cabin yeah so many things if you want to write in or send us a voice message about yellow jackets you can find all our contact information at podcastgo.com while you're there be sure to check out our other shows i'm watching white lotus right now really enjoying it

[01:35:46] really liking the podcast it's more episodes this season so it does seem to be like they're building up a little slower but i'm i trust mike white and i i'm i'm in yeah i agree white lotus is so much fun and the podcast is hilarious i really enjoy the chemistry that those three bring to it it's really

[01:36:09] been great yeah there are so many podcastica podcasts i can't possibly listen to all of them but whenever i listen to any of them they're always good yeah daphne what do you have going on on run for your lives last week we did nosferatu this week we're doing alien alien romulus we did a couple of movies that have been nominated for oscars and so with oscars coming up this weekend

[01:36:35] it was just something we've started doing every year because pig does the death race to try to watch every single oscar nominated film and so we try to yeah we try to find some that fit within our genre so we try to do that yeah very cool all right thanks everybody that's our show thanks for listening buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz you